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L O W L A N D S - L - 07 October 2012 - Volume 01<br><a href="mailto:lowlands.list@gmail.com" target="_blank">lowlands.list@gmail.com</a>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><font><font> </font></font></span></p><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">From: <span><span name="Mike Morgan"></span></span><span><span name="Mike Morgan"><span><span name="Sandy Fleming"></span></span></span></span><span><span name="Mike Morgan"><span><span name="Sandy Fleming"><span class="gI"><span name="Mike Morgan" class="gD">Mike Morgan</span> <span class="go"><a href="mailto:mwmbombay@gmail.com">mwmbombay@gmail.com</a></span></span></span><span><a href="mailto:sandy@scotstext.org" target="_blank"></a></span></span></span><span></span></span><br>
Subject: <span class="gI">LL-L "Literature" 2012.10.05 (02) [EN-SC]</span><span><br><br></span></span><div class="im"><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">R/R wrote:<br>"I suggest we use this label for Western "haiku" to avoid unwarranted expectations. <span lang="ja"><span>西洋の</span><span>俳句</span></span> (<i>seiyō no haiku</i> "Western haiku") might be even more appropriate"<br>
<br></span>
</div><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span lang="ja"><span>西洋</span><span>俳句 <i>seiyō haiku</i></span></span> for short... although maybe 国際俳句<i> kokusai haiku</i> "international haiku" might be more appropriate, as NOT ALL non-Japanese haiku is written in the West, nor by westerners.<br>
<br>post monsoon sun rays</span>
<span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>force their way through closed eyelids<br>oh, for cloudy morns!<br><br>5-7-5, with reference to season and "cutting word" ;-)<br><br>mwm || *U*C> || mike || माईक || мика || マイク (aka Dr Michael W Morgan)<br>
sign language linguist / linguistic typologist<br>academic adviser, Nepal Sign Language Training and Research<br>NDFN, Kathmandu, Nepal<span><span><span><a href="http://scotstext.org/" target="_blank"></a></span></span></span><br>
<span><span><span><br>
<span>-----------<br><br>From: <span class="gI"><span name="Sandy Fleming" class="gD">Sandy Fleming</span> <span class="go"><a href="mailto:sandy@scotstext.org">sandy@scotstext.org</a></span></span></span></span></span></span><span><span><span><span><br>
Subject: <span class="gI">LL-L "Literature" 2012.10.05 (02) [EN-SC]</span></span></span></span></span><br><span><span><span><span><br></span></span></span></span></span><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div class="im"><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span><span><span>From: R. F. Hahn <<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com" target="_blank">sassisch@yahoo.com</a>><br>
Subject: Literature<br></span></span></span></span></div><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></span><div class="im"><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Personally, I don't thinks this is a case of pedantry and purism on my part. When I hear <span><span><span><span><span><span><span><span><i>"haiku</i>" (</span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span><span><span><span><span><span><span><span><span><span lang="ja"><span>俳句)</span></span> and</span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span> <span><span><span><span><i>"senryū</i>" <span style="font-weight:normal">(<span lang="ja">川柳</span>)</span></span></span></span></span><span><span><span><span> I have certain expectations.</span></span></span></span><br>
<br>Fortunately, modern Japanese poets (who have been exposed to Western
poetry) have been wrestling with similar issues and have eventually
come up with a label for a new, freer-style derivative of </span>
<span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span><span><span> <i>haiku</i> and </span></span></span><span><span><span><span><i>senryū</i>: </span></span></span></span><span><span><span><span><span lang="ja"><span>現代の</span><span>俳句</span></span> </span></span></span></span><i>gendai no haiku </i>(literally "contemporary/modern haiku"). I suggest we use this label for Western "haiku" to avoid unwarranted expectations. <span lang="ja"><span>西洋の</span><span>俳句</span></span> (<i>seiyō no haiku</i> "Western haiku") might be even more appropriate.<br>
<span><span><span><span></span></span></span></span></span>
</div><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></span></blockquote></div><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Yes,
the extent to which you would want to correct someone on the matter
would depend on the poet's intent and their success in carrying it out.<br><br>Similar things happen in the historical development of western
poetry: from
sonnets, through non-rhyming sonnets, to poems of 14 lines being called
sonnets, to anything being called a sonnet if the poet thinks they've
captured the essence of a sonnet! But reading over the previous sentence
I notice that it's only the first kind that I naturally call a sonnet
without further qualification.</span>
<span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br><br>It still leaves the question of
whether someone like Bashō followed these conventions, or lived up to
these expectations. If you take his first four in this compilation, for
example:<br><br>C’awa lat’s see</span>
<span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
aw the rael flouers<br>
o this dulefu warld!<br><br>
The fishmongir’s staw--- </span>
<span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
hou cauld the deid lips<br>
o the sautit bream.<br><br>
The lairk lilts abuin</span>
<span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
aw day an the haill day<br>
is no lang aneuch.<br><br>
Back at the lair ---</span>
<span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
Ah bend ma sabbin<br>
til the Back End wund!<br><br>it seems to me that there's no obvious
indication of season until we get to the fourth, and this seems par for
the course for me with Bashō.<br><br>The seasonal potential in Scots is
interesting: here, "Back End" is used for autumn, which is rather
negative, while you could also use "Hairst" (harvest), which is (in most
years, hopefully) positive.<br><br>What you're saying about the party game aspect is interesting,
though. As if the whole phenomenon has gone through stages from
development by the masters through codification for players to freeing
for the modern masters. But the idea of a sharp distinction between
haiku and <span><span><span><span>senryū
still seems somewhat artificial to me (feel free to enlighten me, of
course!): the desire to write haiku and the temptation to indulge in
social commentary seem to me to result in a fair overlap, giving poems
that could be classified in either way, for example from </span></span></span></span>Bashō again:<br><span><span><span><span><br></span></span></span></span>Cum lat’s gae<br>
an hae a look at the snaw<br>
or we’r aw beirit.<br><br>Renga as a game is very popular in some Deaf circles now, I was quite astonished when I first saw it live: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFq2o-y_yso" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFq2o-y_yso</a><br>
<br>(I couldn't find any other way of including the film here? There seemed to be no embedding code.)</span>
<span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br><br>For
very short poems in sign languages, such as you might call haiku, it's
quite usual to try to sign the whole thing using a single handshape:
this adds to the poetic effect in some ways, and limits it in others.<br><br><span class="HOEnZb adL"><font color="#888888">Sandy Fleming<br><a href="http://scotstext.org/" target="_blank">http://scotstext.org/</a></font></span><br>
<span><span><span><span></span></span> <br>
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