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<span style> </span>L O W L A N D S - L - 16 January 2013 -
Volume 02<br>
</font></span><a href="mailto:lowlands.list@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><font size="3">lowlands.list@gmail.com</font></span></a><span style="color:black;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><font size="3"> - </font></span><a href="http://lowlands-l.net/" target="_blank"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><font size="3">http://lowlands-l.net/</font></span></a><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><br>
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</font><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0pt"><font size="3"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">From:
<span name="Uwe Tychsen"><span class="gd">Uwe Tychsen</span></span>
<span class="go"><a href="mailto:tychsen@t-online.de"><font color="#0000ff">tychsen@t-online.de</font></a></span><br>
Subject: LL-L “Orthography” 2013.01.15 (01) [NDS]</span></font></p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">
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</font><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0pt"><span lang="DE" style="color:black;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><font size="3">Hallo Hanne,<br>
<br>
ik mein, Prof. Wilhelm Wisser wiir vör 120 Jåår dor al op'n gauden Wäch:</font></span></p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">
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</font><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0pt;color:black"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><a href="http://www.lowlands-l.net/anniversary/about.php" target="_blank"><span lang="DE" style><font color="#0000ff" size="3">http://www.lowlands-l.net/anniversary/about.php</font></span></a></span><span lang="DE" style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""></span></li>
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</font><p style="margin:0in 0in 0pt"><span lang="DE" style="color:black;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><font size="3">Worüm hebbt wul al uns
Nåwerlänner (vun Holland öwer den Nurden bet in'nt Baltikum) vör sössdi Jåår
dat å infört? Meistens wör dårmit dat aa ersett. Dat beste Bispill is de Aal.</font></span></p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">
</font><p style="margin:0in 0in 0pt"><span lang="DE" style="color:black;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><font size="3">Låt Di dat gaud gåån,<br>
Uwe</font></span></p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">
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</font><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0pt"><font size="3"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">From:
Heiko Evermann <<a href="mailto:heiko.evermann@gmx.de">heiko.evermann@gmx.de</a>><br>
Subject: LL-L “Orthography” 2013.01.15 (01) [NDS]</span></font></p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">
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</font><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0pt"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><font size="3">2013/1/15
Lowlands-L <</font></span><a href="mailto:lowlands.list@gmail.com"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><font color="#0000ff" size="3">lowlands.list@gmail.com</font></span></a><font size="3"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">>:</span></font></p>
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</font><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0pt"><font size="3"><span lang="DE" style="color:black;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">> Tschä Uwe dat is so'n Saak (seggt Knaak)
mit dat a un den'n lütten Kringel å<br>
> bawenup. Dis' Oort von Schriewen hett Perfessersch Renate Herrmann-Winter<br>
> sick so dacht. Na ja, oewer ob dat glieksens de Anfänger mitkriegen. Dat<br>
> möt nach mien Mein so verklort sien, woans dat snackt ward.</span><span lang="DE" style></span></font></p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">
</font><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0pt"><span lang="DE" style="color:black;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"> </font></span></p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">
</font><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0pt"><font size="3"><span lang="DE" style="color:black;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Also ich meine, so ein Kringel-A scheitert
einfach daran, dass der<br>
übliche PC-Benutzer nicht weiß, wo er das auf der Tastatur findet.<br>
Auch ich selbst, als Informatiker, wüsste auf die Schnelle nur den<br>
Weg, mir das irgendwo mal rauszusuchen und es mittels copy/paste<br>
reinzufrickeln, oder die Escapesequenz rauszusuchen. Bei Windows:<br>
Alt-0229, und das kann man wirklich nur Informatikern zumuten. Das tut<br>
echt weh.<br>
Selbst wenn man es der Tastatur beibringen würde, (Tastaturtreiber zum<br>
Nachinstallieren bei Windows, Umstellen der Standardtastatur für<br>
Deutsch etc.) wäre das ein gehöriges Stückchen Aufwand und das<br>
Klebchen auf der Tastatur (wo wäre da eigentlich was frei) würde mich<br>
immer angrinsen.<br>
<br>
Das sind im Grunde dieselben Probleme wie früher, als die Buchdrucker<br>
das nicht im Setzkasten hatten.<br>
<br>
Ach, gah mi af mit disse Kringels, dat geiht ok so.</span><span lang="DE" style></span></font></p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">
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</font><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0pt"><font size="3"><span style="color:rgb(136,136,136);font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Heiko</span></font></p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">
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</font><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0pt"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><font size="3">From:
R. F. Hahn </font></span><a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><font color="#0000ff" size="3">sassisch@yahoo.com</font></span></a><span style="color:black;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><br>
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Subject: Orthography</font></span></p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">
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</font><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0pt"><font size="3"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Dear
Lowlanders,<br>
<br>
Please let me interject in English at this point, in part to offer others a way into
the discussion.<br>
<br>
Some writers of German Low Saxon (Low German) use the Scandinavian-derived
letter <i>å </i>to represent what in Low Saxon is a long “a” (phonemic /aa/),
which in most dialects is pronounced [ɒː], [ɔː] or [oː]. Other writers simply
use <i>aa</i> and <i>a</i> (depending on a syllable being open or closed), and
in the far west of Northern Germany as well as on the eastern parts of the
Netherlands, this phoneme tends to be written “ao” or “oa”. In other words, the
pronunciation involves more or less lip rounding. The letter <i>å </i>tends to
be used for it by writers of Schleswig-Holstein and others that have contact
with or a predilection for Scandinavia and its languages and wish to give
written Low Saxon texts a “Nordic” look. <br>
<br>
Hanne questions the wisdom of using <i>å </i>for this phoneme, and Heiko
(above) rejects the practice. OK, so please let me weigh in somewhat briefly!<br>
<br>
The phoneme in question is simply /aa/ (i.e., a long “a”) which in Low Saxon
phonetics is realized with more of less lip rounding (much like in “p<u>ar</u>ty”
pronounced super-poshly in southern British English). Using <i>å</i> for it is
thus superfluous in that it merely constitutes would-be phonetic detail to
signal “a sound not used in German,” i.e., as considered from a German
viewpoint. Everyone that knows or learns Low Saxon ought to know that /aa/ is
phonetically more or less rounded. A special orthographic device is therefore
not needed; <i>aa</i>/<i>a</i> suffices. Low Saxon is not a dialect group of
German or Dutch and thus, at least in theory, does not need to do its orthographic
planning according to German or Dutch reference points.<br>
<br>
Reportedly, there are some Low Saxon dialects in the Netherlands that do
distinguish [ɒː] and [aː], something of which I have not been convinced so far.
In most Low Saxon instances, what is spelled <i>aa</i> ([aː], the sound of
genuine long “a” in Standard Dutch) is phonemically short “a” (/a/) which
before nasals and liquids is phonetically lengthened (e.g. /land/ <i>laand</i>
[laːnt] vs Dutch /land/ <i>land</i> [lɑnt] ‘land’, ‘country’).<br>
<br>
Another extreme, in my opinion (sorry, Hanne!) is the Low Saxon orthography
Renate Hermann-Winter uses for the northeastern Low Saxon dialects (of
Mecklenburg and Western Pomerania)—aside from her brief flirt with the letter <i>å</i>.
To me, her orthography seems overly beholden to German conventions, including
poor or non-existent distinction between long and short vowels. <br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Reinhard/Ron<br>
Seattle, USA</span></font></p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">
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