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<font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"> L O W L A N D S - L - 27 March 2013 - Volume 02</font></div><div style="text-align:center"><a href="mailto:lowlands.list@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:blue"><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">lowlands.list@gmail.com</font></span></a><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"> - </font><a href="http://lowlands-l.net/" target="_blank"><span style="color:blue"><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">http://lowlands-l.net/</font></span></a></div>
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<font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"></font></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0pt;line-height:normal"><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">From: Joachim Kreimer-de Fries </font><a href="mailto:Osnabryg+Lowlands@googlemail.com" target="_blank"><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Osnabryg+Lowlands@googlemail.com</font></a><br>
<font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2013.03.27 (02) [DE-EN]<br><br>Dag Laagländers </font><div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">(& hault ju fuchtig | füüchtig!),</font><div>
</div><div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">"Keep fighting" or "keep yourself fresh (moist ~ foggy)" - that's here the question.<br></font><div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">- English summary below -</font></div>
<div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"></font> </div><div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Danke Hanne, dass du mich daran erinnert hast:</font></div><div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"></font> </div>
<div><blockquote type="cite"><span style="text-transform:none;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;border-collapse:separate"><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><b>fuchtig </b>Adj. wütend, zornig</font></span></span></blockquote>
</div><div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">ist mir seit der Kindheit bekannt und in dieser Bedeutung (auch von mir selbst) gebräuchlich: "Hör endlich auf damit, sonst werde ich fuchtig" u. ä.<br></font></div>
<div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Allerdings ist das Wort <i>fuchtig</i> in der Bedeutung "fechtfreudig, zänkisch, wild gestikulierend etc." nicht im niederdeutschen Bereich, sondern im Oberdeutschen entstanden. Im Niederländischen ist es bis heute unbekannt. Laut Duden und Grimm's Wörterbuch besonders oberdeutsch, ostmitteldeutsch und schweizerisch. Wie ja auch schweizerisch <i>fuchten</i> 'zanken' und substantivisch <i>Fucht</i> 'Streit'. In der Tat von <i>fechten</i> abgeleitet, das nach Grimm im Präteritum eigentlich "ich facht, wir fuchten" lauten müsste (und im Frühneuhochdeutschen noch gelautet hat).<br>
</font></div><div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Natürlich kann das Wort <i>fuchtig</i> i. S. von <i>fechten</i> über die standarddeutsche Umgangssprache in die plattdeutsche Mundart gekommen sein, aber typisch plattdeutsch - als welches die Abschiedsfloskel "Haul di fuchtig" meistens hingestellt wird - ist es jedenfalls nicht.</font></div>
<div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"></font> </div><div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Dafür spricht trotz aller Bedenken, dass es auch in Norddeutschland mit kurzem Vokal gesprochen wird (allerdings auch im Niederländischen, wo es gleichwohl "feucht" bedeutet).</font></div>
<div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"></font> </div><div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">In der Bedeutung "feucht" müsste es niederdeutsch eigentlich mit (etwas) längerem Vokal gesprochen werden: <i>fuucht / fuuchtig</i> oder besser <i>füücht / füüchtig</i>, ebenso wie <i>füüchtigheed </i>"Feuchtigkeit".<br>
</font></div><div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Es bleibt ziemlich spekulativ, solange man nicht weiß, seit wann diese Abschiedsfloskel im Plattdeutschen gebräuchlich ist. Wenn schon vor 1900, dann dürfte es gewiss "feucht, frisch" bedeutet haben wie im niederländischen <i>vochtig</i> auch, kann sich im Norddeutschen aber später mit dem oberdeutschen bzw. allgemein-hochdeutsch-umgangssprachlichne <i>fuchtig</i> "fechtfreudig, wütend" gemischt haben bzw. damit verwechselt worden sein.<br>
</font></div><div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">------- ENGLICH SUMMARY -------<br></font></div><div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">My argumentation goes about a (modern) Low Saxon Good-Bye-Formula </font></div>
<div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">"haul/holl di/ju fuchtig/fochtig <b>or</b> füüchtig", meaning </font></div><div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">"keep fighting ~ pugnacious" <b>or</b> "keep yourself fresh (moist ~ foggy), from Old Ænglisc <i>fūht"</i>.<br>
</font></div><div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Both words with the different meanings would make sense, but the word DE <i>fuchtig </i>[fuχtɪx] is of upper German origin (and might be applied in Plattdeutsch in our times only), so that this formula should not be presented as typical Low German.<br>
</font></div><div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">On the other hand, if the word <i>fuchtig</i> or <i>fochtig</i> is identical with Netherlandish <i>vochtig</i> EN <i>fresh (moist ~ foggy)</i>, from Old Ænglisc <i>fūht</i>, then it should in Low Saxon of Germany be pronounced [fu:χtɪx] or better [fy:χtɪx], which is not the case.<br>
</font></div><div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">So might be, the origin of word within the phrase was NL <i>vochtig</i> LS [fy:χtɪx] EN fresh, but then in the meaning mixed with the nowadays Germany-wide used <i>fuchtig [fuχtɪx]</i> in the sense of EN <i>fighting</i>. </font></div>
<div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"></font> </div><div><b><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Question to the Netherlandish speaking friends: Is there any dialectical use of "Houd jou vochtig" or similar?</font></b></div>
<div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"></font> </div><div><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Am 22.03.2013 um 23:31 schrieb Hanne:<br></font></div><div><div><blockquote type="cite"><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><i>fuchtig</i><span> </span>hett twei Bedüden.<span> </span><br>
[1.]<br><b>fucht</b> <span> </span><i>feucht</i>.<span> </span><i>Ehr Og' ward ümmer fucht, wenn se man hürt von</i> <span> </span><i>Brut un Brüjam blot</i>. <span> </span><i>Min</i><span> </span>(Zigarren)<i><span> </span>sünd 'n bäten fuchtig</i><i><span> </span>Abl.<span> </span></i><i>fuchtig.<span> </span></i><i>Mnd.</i><i>vucht</i>.<br>
<b>fuchtig<span> </span></b>im Ablaut zu<span> </span><i>fechten<span> - </span></i>Lit.: Wossidlo/Teuchert<br><br><b>fuchtig<span> </span></b>Adj. wütend, zornig:<span> </span><i>holl di fuchtig!</i><span> </span>Bleib gesund!<br>
Lit.: Renate Herrmann-Winter<br><br>Beim Verabschieden sagt man oft<span> </span><i>holl di fuchtig</i><span> </span>und meint damit 'Bleib gesund' also auch beweglich</font>.</span></blockquote></div></div></div>
<span style="text-transform:none;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-family:Georgia;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;border-collapse:separate"><span style="text-transform:none;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-family:Georgia;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;border-collapse:separate"><div>
</div><div><span style="font-size:19px">Happy Eastern or Western & Haul(t) ju füüchtig!</span></div><div><div style="font-size:medium"><span style="font-size:19px">Met echt-westfœlsken »Goutgaun!«</span><br style="font-size:19px">
<span style="font-size:19px">joachim</span></div><div style="font-size:medium"><span style="font-size:19px">--<br></span><span style="font-size:18px">Kreimer-de Fries - </span><br style="font-size:18px"><span style="font-size:18px">Osnabrügge => Berlin-Pankow </span><span style="font-size:18px">skype kreimer-de_fries</span></div>
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</font></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0pt;line-height:normal"><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">From: R. F. Hahn </font><a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com"><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">sassisch@yahoo.com</font></a></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0pt;line-height:normal"><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Subject: Etymology</font></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0pt;line-height:normal"><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"> </font></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0pt;line-height:normal"><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Thanks for that contribution, Joachim. <br><br>Sure, it may be possible that Low Saxon <em>fuchtig</em> [ˈfʊxtɪç] 'feisty' began as an Upper (or Central) German loan.</font></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0pt;line-height:normal"><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"> </font></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0pt;line-height:normal"><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">However, while in most Low Saxon dialects the word for 'to fight' is <em>fechten</em> [ˈfɛçtn̩], in many Low Saxon dialects of Eastern Friesland it is <em>fuchten</em> [ˈfʊxtn̩]. So <em>fuchtig </em>would be something like *"fighty", if English had such a word. Better still, compare it to Scots <em>fechtie</em> [ˈfe:çti:] 'brave', 'courageous' (from <em>fecht</em> [fe:çt] 'to fight').</font></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0pt;line-height:normal"><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"></font> </div><div class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0pt;line-height:normal"><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">One of the derived meanings of <em>fuchtig</em> is something like 'in survival mode (although the going is hard)', 'keeping up the spirit (in difficult times)'. I believe that this is what is meant in the phrase <em>Hold di fuchtig!</em> 'Keep up the spirit!'</font></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0pt;line-height:normal"><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"></font> </div><div class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0pt;line-height:normal"><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Another derived meaning of <em>fuchtig</em> is 'wildly gesticulating', 'behaving wildly' (as though fighting). Derived from this is the frequentive form <em>fuchteln</em> [ˈfʊxtl̩n] 'to wave about (wildly)' (also used in German).</font></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0pt;line-height:normal"><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"></font> </div><div class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0pt;line-height:normal"><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Low Saxon as a whole owes much to the influences of (Frisian-tinted and) more vital dialects of Eastern Friesland. I include in this items like <em>moi</em> 'nice' and <em>Moin!</em> '(Have a) nice one!).</font></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0pt;line-height:normal"><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"></font> </div><div class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0pt;line-height:normal"><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Regards,<br>
Reinhard/Ron<br>Seattle, USA</font></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0pt;line-height:normal"> </div><div class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0pt;line-height:normal">Happy Easter and Passover!</div><div class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0pt;line-height:normal">
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