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L O W L A N D S - L - 21 March 2014 - Volume 01<br><a href="mailto:lowlands.list@gmail.com" target="_blank">lowlands.list@gmail.com</a> - <a href="http://lowlands-l.net/" target="_blank">http://lowlands-l.net/</a><br>Posting: <a href="mailto:lowlands-l@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lowlands-l@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br>
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<font color="#000000" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12px;margin:0in 0in 0pt"><div style="font-size:12.727272033691406px">From: <span name="Steven Hanson" class="" style="font-size:12.727272033691406px">Steven Hanson</span><span style="white-space:nowrap"> </span><span class="" style="white-space:nowrap"><a href="mailto:ammurit@gmail.com">ammurit@gmail.com</a></span><br>
Subject: <span style="white-space:nowrap">LL-L "Grammar" 2014.03.20 (01) [EN]</span></div><div style="font-size:12.727272033691406px"><span style="white-space:nowrap"><br></span><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">
<span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:'Tempus Sans ITC';color:rgb(31,73,125)">I was once one of those grammar Nazis. Oddly enough, I was always more accepting of ‘grammatical deviations’ when I encountered them in the languages I studied, but heaven forbid there be any in English! Now, after I’ve dabbled in so many foreign languages, and as I’ve progressed further and further along as something of an amateur linguist, I have a far better understanding of language – what it is and how it works – and as such, it seems to me that being a grammar Nazi is quite incompatible with being even remotely interested in linguistics. The two just don’t go hand in hand, in my opinion, much to the contrary of the general population’s idea of what a linguist is. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:'Tempus Sans ITC';color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:'Tempus Sans ITC';color:rgb(31,73,125)">As far as whether they’re ruining the language or not, I’m inclined to say no, simply because their ‘rules’ tend to be observed only by those people who are in agreement with them, while the rest of us happily split our infinitives and end our sentences with prepositions and so on. I’ve always thought it was a bit hypocritical of them to rail against the natural progression of language as we see it in our day and age, even though they seem fine with the same processes that changed Old English into Middle English, and Middle English into Modern English, and everything in between and still to come. </span></p>
</div><div style="font-size:12.727272033691406px"><br></div><div style="font-size:12.727272033691406px">----------</div><div style="font-size:12.727272033691406px"><br></div><div style="font-size:12.727272033691406px">From: "<a href="mailto:heatherrendall@tiscali.co.uk">heatherrendall@tiscali.co.uk</a>" <<a href="mailto:heatherrendall@tiscali.co.uk">heatherrendall@tiscali.co.uk</a>><br>
Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2014.03.20 (01) [EN]</div><div style="font-size:12.727272033691406px"><br></div><div style="font-size:12.727272033691406px">from Heather Rendall <a href="mailto:heatherrendall@tiscali.co.uk">heatherrendall@tiscali.co.uk</a><br>
<br>I saw this article at the weekend and was puzzled by one of the examples given "You have to really watch him" Were they really saying that this was an example of a split infinitive?<br><br>Or what was it meant to show?<br>
<br>best wishes after a long absence<br><br>Heather<br><br>Worcester UKel<br></div><div style="font-size:12.727272033691406px"><br></div><div style="font-size:12.727272033691406px">----------</div><div style="font-size:12.727272033691406px">
<br></div><div style="font-size:12.727272033691406px">From: (Ted Harding) <<a href="mailto:Ted.Harding@wlandres.net">Ted.Harding@wlandres.net</a>><br>Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2014.03.20 (01) [EN]<br></div>
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<br></div><div style="font-size:12.727272033691406px">> From: R. F. Hahn <<a href="mailto:sassisch@yahoo.com">sassisch@yahoo.com</a>><br>> Subject: Grammar<br>><br>> Dear Lowlanders,<br>><br>> Some of you may be interested in an article published in The<br>
> Telegraph<<a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/" target="_blank">http://www.telegraph.co.uk/</a>>today:<br>><br>> "Are Grammar Nazis Ruining the English<br>> Language?"<<a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/10692897/Are-grammar-Nazis" target="_blank">http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/10692897/Are-grammar-Nazis</a><br>
> -ruining-the-English-language.html><br>><br>> "Guardians" or "Nazis"? What are *your* opinions?<br>><br>> Regards,<br>> Reinhard/Ron<br>> Seattle, USA<br><br>Interesting, and somewhat provocative, but (as written) a somewhat diffuse target!<br>
<br>My own view (and I am no professional linguist, is that if not<br>reasonably channelled then language, like water, tends to flow<br>downhill -- until it reaches the polders, at which point it will<br>breach the banks and spread out messily.<br>
<br>It is one thing to use "informal" language constructs in casual<br>conversation with people whose language usage you can relate to,<br>so that people know they understand each other, whatever their<br>quirks of speech. No problem there, even if they are splashing<br>
around in the flood plain.<br><br>But when you say or write something which is intended to be<br>understood by any English (say) speaker, then it is a good idea<br>to adopt more formal and rigid constraints on your language use.<br>
"Who's that pretty girl?" would be understood throughout the<br>English-speaking world; "Fa's yon bonnie quine?" would not.<br><br>I have the following comment on one of Pullum's examples:<br>
The key, he says, is to realise that your preferences<br> -- using "fewer" instead of "less" when referring to plural<br> objects, for instance -- are just preferences, and claiming<br> that they're "wrong" is false.<br>
Well, I could disagree with that! Compare and contrast the following:<br><br>[1] There is less beer in my glass now than there was 10 minutes ago<br>[2] There is fewer beer in my glass now than there was 10 minutes ago<br>
[3] There are fewer chocolates in the box than there were yesterday<br>[4] There are less chocolates in the box than there were yesterday<br>[5] There is less chocolates in the box than there was yesterday<br><br>One of the creeping downhill flows these days is the use of "data"<br>
as a singular noun: "The data is available on our website at ...".<br>Etymologically, "data" is a plural noun, the plural of "datum",<br>and the French and Germans still respect that: "Une donnée",<br>
"les données", "une base de données"; "ein Datum", "die Daten",<br>"eine Datenbank". To some extent this hints at a collective-noun<br>aspect of "data" -- in the Telgraph article Pullum gives a nice<br>
example.<br><br>As for splitting infinitves -- well, nearly everybody does it,<br>and it doesn't usually corrupt communication in the slightest.<br>But I see (mostly) nothing wrong with rigorously avoiding it,<br>if you really want to.<br>
<br>A propos of which, I'll close with a little example I once invented<br>to illustrate how the position of the adverb can dramatically affect<br>the meaning:<br><br>[A]: I prepared slowly to go home thinking i.e. (prepared slowly)<br>
[B]: I prepared to slowly go home thinking i.e. (slowly go = go slowly)<br>[C]: I prepared to go home slowly thinking i.e. (slowly thinking)<br><br>Between [A] and [B] we can have a battle between the split-infinitive<br>
B-army and the anti-split-infinitive A-army; but the B-army can<br>win this battle because they can claim that [B] indicates "going home<br>slowly" while [A] indicates "preparing slowly"; and that the A-army<br>
have cut themselves off from the "preparing slowly" meaning by<br>forcing themselves to use [A] instead of [B] (which they abhor).<br><br>One the other hand, the A-army can counter-attack by pointing out that<br>
if you really do mean "preparing slowly" then you could say<br><br>[D]: I slowly prepared to go home thinking<br><br>But I think the B-army would still defeat the counter-attack by pointing<br>out that anyone who sees [A] would interpret it as<br>
<br>[A]: I (prepared slowly) to go home thinking<br><br>and not as<br><br>[A]: I prepared (slowly to go home) thinking<br><br>So, perhaps, that example leaves split infinitives still hanging<br>in the air!<br><br>Best wishes to all,<br>
Ted.<br><br>-------------------------------------------------<br>E-Mail: (Ted Harding) <<a href="mailto:Ted.Harding@wlandres.net">Ted.Harding@wlandres.net</a>><br>Date: 20-Mar-2014 Time: 19:42:57<br>This message was sent by XFMail<br>
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