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L O W L A N D S - L - 19 May 2014 - Volume 01<br><a href="mailto:lowlands.list@gmail.com" target="_blank">lowlands.list@gmail.com</a> - <a href="http://lowlands-l.net/" target="_blank">http://lowlands-l.net/</a><br>Posting: <a href="mailto:lowlands-l@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lowlands-l@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br>
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<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.727272033691406px;margin:0in 0in 0pt"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">From: </font><span name="Marcel Bas" class="" style="font-size:12.727272033691406px">Marcel Bas</span><span style="white-space:nowrap"> </span><span class="" style="white-space:nowrap"><span><</span><a href="mailto:marcelbas@gmail.com">marcelbas@gmail.com</a><span>></span></span><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br>
Subject: </font><span style="white-space:nowrap">LL-L "Etymology" 2014.05.18 (01) [EN]</span></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0pt"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.727272033691406px;white-space:nowrap"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br>
</font></span><div class="gmail_quote" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.727272033691406px">Good evening, Ron,</div><div class="gmail_quote" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.727272033691406px">
</div><div class="gmail_quote" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.727272033691406px">In Ancient Greek we have the cognate 'phōgein', which denotes 'to bake' and 'to grill'. So I wonder if the connotation of 'baking dough' is not a later development.</div>
<div class="gmail_quote" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.727272033691406px"> </div><div class="gmail_quote" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.727272033691406px">In Dutch we also have the additional meaning of "to adhere", "to stick" that you find in Low Saxon, although I can only think of a metaphoric case, now: the Dutch expression "gebakken zitten" means that a person is secured, unlikely to leave his or her position. A person can 'zitten gebakken' when he has a good, steady job.</div>
<div class="gmail_quote" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.727272033691406px"> </div><div class="gmail_quote" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.727272033691406px">A perhaps more recent development is the expression 'het zit er ingebakken', i.e. "It is baked in" (in a person). The expression refers to a habit that is not easy to get rid of. "Het zit er zo ingebakken" = it is a strong habit, it is hard to break with it.</div>
<div class="gmail_quote" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.727272033691406px"> </div><div class="gmail_quote" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.727272033691406px">Lastly, I wonder why Standard German has 'backen', when Old High German, had 'bachhan', and Bavarian has 'bacha'. Is 'backen' perhaps a Low German loanword? </div>
<div class="gmail_quote" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.727272033691406px"> </div><div class="gmail_quote" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.727272033691406px">Best regards,</div><div class="gmail_quote" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.727272033691406px">
</div><div class="gmail_quote" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.727272033691406px">Marcel.</div><div class="gmail_quote" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.727272033691406px"><br></div><div class="gmail_quote" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.727272033691406px">
-----------</div><div class="gmail_quote" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.727272033691406px"><br></div><div class="gmail_quote"><div style="margin:0in 0in 0pt"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.727272033691406px">From: </font><font><font face="arial, sans-serif">Rader, James <<a href="mailto:jrader@m-w.com">jrader@m-w.com</a>></font><br>
<font face="arial, sans-serif">Subject: </font></font><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.727272033691406px;white-space:nowrap">LL-L "Etymology" 2014.05.18 (01) [EN]</span></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0pt">
<span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.727272033691406px;white-space:nowrap"><br></span></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0pt"><div class="" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1400523885670_2961" style="display:table;width:auto;padding-top:12px;padding-left:0px;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:'Helvetica Neue','Segoe UI',Helvetica,Arial,'Lucida Grande',sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<div id="yiv0593914518"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1400523885670_2965"><div class="" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1400523885670_2964"><p class="" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1400523885670_2963" style="padding:0px;margin:0px 0in;font-size:12pt"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1400523885670_2962" style="font-size:11pt">Ron- Note that the Continental West Germanic forms have the outcomes of a geminate consonant (*bakk-), opposed to Old English <i>bacan </i>with a single consonant. This etymon must be of near-Indo-European age, because Greek <i>phṓgō,</i> “bake, roast,” is directly comparable. It seems very unlikely to me that a word this old would have referred primarily to the firing of bricks/tiles—an advanced, almost industrial activity—and secondarily to the baking/roasting of food. See Seebold’s revision of Kluge’s etymological dictionary of German (the 24<sup>th</sup> or later edition), if you have access to it—it has thoughtful comments on this etymon. Best, Jim Rader</span></p>
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