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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Tempus Sans ITC";color:#1F497D'>Damn, it’s good to see some activity again. </span><span style='font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D'>J</span><span style='font-family:"Tempus Sans ITC";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Tempus Sans ITC";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Tempus Sans ITC";color:#1F497D'>I vaguely remember reading something somewhere that linked our Germanic path with an Iranian language as well.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Tempus Sans ITC";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Tempus Sans ITC";color:#1F497D'>Steven<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Tempus Sans ITC";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> LOWLANDS-L [mailto:lowlands-l-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Lowlands Languages & Cultures<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, July 18, 2017 1:26 PM<br><b>To:</b> Lowlands Languages & Cultures <lowlands-l@listserv.linguistlist.org><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lowlands-l] Is the list alive? Here is a linguist question!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Hi Marlou,<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I am sorry for the confusion! My reply was also an answer to Michael Morgan's message. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>There, if I am not mistaken, he proposes that our 'path word' may be of Latin origin, while acknowledging that this origin does not account for the loss of _n_ in Latin _pons_ acc.<span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'> pons, acc. _pontem_, etc. A Slavic origin would account for the it, but this in turn would yield some semantic problems. So I proposed the Eastern Iranian origin. </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Best regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Marcel.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Op 18 jul. 2017 9:04 p.m. schreef "Lowlands Languages & Cultures" <<a href="mailto:lowlands-l@listserv.linguistlist.org">lowlands-l@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>>:<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><p><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>"This explains the loss of the nasal." -- I'm sorry for being so ignorant, dear Marcel, but where is a nasal in any of these words? I am just trying to understand...</span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Hartlich</span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Marlou</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Am 18.07.2017 um 14:52 schrieb Lowlands Languages & Cultures:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Good afternoon, all, Michael,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Indeed, High German _Pfad_, Dutch _pad_, and English _path_ did not enter these languages through the normal *path*. According to my tutor Michael de Vaan it entered the Germanic languages through an Eastern Iranian language, and not through Latin. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>It must have entered the Germanic languages after Grimm's Law turned PIE p- into f-, otherwise we would have had English *fath and Dutch *vad. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Cf. Old Avestan _patha_ 'way'. This explains the loss of the nasal. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>The European plains have had visits from several Eastern Iranian tribes such as the Sarmatians, who were dwelling in the Pontic steppe through which they had access to these plains. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Best regards, <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Marcel. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Op 18 jul. 2017 8:11 a.m. schreef "Lowlands Languages & Cultures" <<a href="mailto:lowlands-l@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lowlands-l@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>>:<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><p class=MsoNormal>to put it into wider-than-Germanic perspective, the word is definitely Indo-European: cf Russian путь, Old Church Slavoinc пѫть, Sanskrit <span style='font-family:"Kokila",sans-serif'>पथः</span>, and English path, Anglo-Saxon <span class=m-5698071417444136870m8022441526601369271gmail-st>pæþ</span>, Dutch pad, and German Pfad, all with basically the same meaning path, way, course, route. Indo-European would have been *panthis. And the common link with Latin pons, acc. pontem, etc would indicate maybe an even more basic meaning of the rood "how to get from here to there"<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><br>And, matching well with what Marcel said above about (High) German words starting in *p, IE roots in *p- do not normally give German words in in *p (ratehr, like Pfad, they give words in *pf-), indicating that, although common Indo-European, and with Germanic cognates, the German*p words got into German not by the normal path (excuse the pun) but through borrowing (in this case no doubt from Latin, though it could conceivably come form Low German... though the nasal would tend to indicate Latin not Low German. If the loan were very very early, then Slavic might also conceivably be a source, but given the sense of the word, this seems unlikely)<br><br><br>Dr Michael W Morgan<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>mwm || *U*C> || mike || <span style='font-family:"Kokila",sans-serif'>माईक</span> || <span style='font-family:"Shruti",sans-serif'>માઈક</span> || <span style='font-family:"Shonar Bangla",sans-serif'>মাঈক</span> || <span style='font-family:"Vijaya",sans-serif'>மாஈக</span> || مایک ||мика || <span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>戊流岸マイク</span> <br>sign language linguist / linguistic typologist / Deaf education consultant<br>"Have language, will travel"<br>=====================================<br>"People who are always looking down at the bottom line will always fail to see the stars" <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>_______________________________________________<br>LOWLANDS-L mailing list<br><a href="mailto:LOWLANDS-L@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">LOWLANDS-L@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br><a href="http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lowlands-l" target="_blank">http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lowlands-l</a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>LOWLANDS-L mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="mailto:LOWLANDS-L@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">LOWLANDS-L@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lowlands-l" target="_blank">http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lowlands-l</a><o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>_______________________________________________<br>LOWLANDS-L mailing list<br><a href="mailto:LOWLANDS-L@listserv.linguistlist.org">LOWLANDS-L@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br><a href="http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lowlands-l" target="_blank">http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lowlands-l</a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></div></body></html>