<html><head></head><body><div style="font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:medium;"><div><div>haha. That one is pretty common (mouthful of potatoes). But if you are old enough to remember stenography, you'll appreciate the funniest description I've heard of it, in Kofoed's "Way to Danish" (text from the 60's), where a character says it sounds like "coughing in shorthand."</div></div><div>Having said that, I want to be clear that I am not criticizing Danish. It is a bit weird sounding, but it is a beautiful language. You'll be hard-pressed to find more beautiful language than, say, reading H.C. Andersen in Danish. Danish is really a fantastic language, one of my favorites.</div><div>stan</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div id="yahoo_quoted_0820700057" class="yahoo_quoted"><div style="font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;"><div>On Saturday, July 22, 2017, 10:20:15 AM GMT+7, Lowlands Languages & Cultures <lowlands-l@listserv.linguistlist.org> wrote:</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><div id="yiv9549546142"><html><head><style>#yiv9549546142 #yiv9549546142 --
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#yiv9549546142 </style></head><div><div class="yiv9549546142WordSection1"><p class="yiv9549546142MsoNormal"><span style="">It helps, too, that written Norwegian (Bokmål) is based on written Danish. I’ve heard Danish described as sounding like it’s spoken with a mouthful of hot potatoes. Having studied it a bit, I can agree that I do indeed feel like I’m speaking with a mouthful of hot potatoes.</span></p><p class="yiv9549546142MsoNormal"><span style=""> </span></p><div class="yiv9549546142yqt7247223931" id="yiv9549546142yqt62135"><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;"><p class="yiv9549546142MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"> LOWLANDS-L [mailto:lowlands-l-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Lowlands Languages & Cultures<br clear="none"><b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 21, 2017 6:45 PM<br clear="none"><b>To:</b> Lowlands Languages & Cultures <lowlands-l@listserv.linguistlist.org><br clear="none"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lowlands-l] Google Translate</span></p></div></div><p class="yiv9549546142MsoNormal"> </p><div><div><div><p class="yiv9549546142MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;">Yes, that seems to be pretty true. I think Norwegians have a leg up on understanding the other two. Danish is just so different phonologically that it makes it tough to understand them. I studied a couple of years of Danish in grad school (decades ago), and never studied Norwegian, but I actually can understand spoken Norwegian better than spoken Danish!</span></p></div></div><div><p class="yiv9549546142MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;"> </span></p></div><div><p class="yiv9549546142MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;"> </span></p></div><div id="yiv9549546142yahoo_quoted_0869588389"><div><div><p class="yiv9549546142MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">On Saturday, July 22, 2017, 8:24:05 AM GMT+7, Lowlands Languages & Cultures <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:lowlands-l@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:lowlands-l@listserv.linguistlist.org">lowlands-l@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>> wrote:</span></p></div><div><p class="yiv9549546142MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;"> </span></p></div><div><p class="yiv9549546142MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;"> </span></p></div><div><div id="yiv9549546142"><div><div><p class="yiv9549546142msonormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">And from what I’ve heard, both Norwegians and Swedes have a bit more trouble with Danish. I don’t know where I read the saying, but it’s something like “Norwegian is Danish spoken in Swedish.”</span></p><p class="yiv9549546142msonormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;"> </span></p><p class="yiv9549546142msonormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">Steven</span></p><p class="yiv9549546142msonormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;"> </span></p><div id="yiv9549546142yqt97016"><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;"><p class="yiv9549546142msonormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"> LOWLANDS-L [<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:lowlands-l-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:lowlands-l-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org">mailto:lowlands-l-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Lowlands Languages & Cultures<br clear="none"><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 20, 2017 11:49 PM<br clear="none"><b>To:</b> Lowlands Languages & Cultures <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:lowlands-l@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:lowlands-l@listserv.linguistlist.org">lowlands-l@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>><br clear="none"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lowlands-l] Google Translate</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;"></span></p></div></div><p class="yiv9549546142msonormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;"> </span></p><div><div id="yiv9549546142yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1500619307510_8581"><p class="yiv9549546142msonormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">The question of "closest£ when it comes to languages is very dependent on definition. A philological tree re[resents how different languages developed; it doesn't reflect intelligibility. The classic case is the Scandinavian languages. Norwegian classifies as a West Norse language, on a branch with Faroese and Icelandic. Swedish is East Norse, a distinct branch. The reality is that most Norwegians would struggle to understand more than a handful of words of Icelandic, but can converse with a Swede comfortably.</span></p></div><div id="yiv9549546142yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1500619307510_8581"><p class="yiv9549546142msonormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;"> </span></p></div><div id="yiv9549546142yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1500619307510_8581"><p class="yiv9549546142msonormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">Paul</span></p></div><div id="yiv9549546142yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1500619307510_8582"><p class="yiv9549546142msonormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;"> </span></p></div><div id="yiv9549546142yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1500619307510_8814"><div id="yiv9549546142yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1500619307510_8813"><div id="yiv9549546142yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1500619307510_8812"><div id="yiv9549546142yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1500619307510_8811"><div align="center" class="yiv9549546142MsoNormal" style="text-align:center;background:white;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;"></span><hr align="center" size="1" width="100%"></div><p class="yiv9549546142msonormal" style="background:white;"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;"> Lowlands Languages & Cultures <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:lowlands-l@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:lowlands-l@listserv.linguistlist.org">lowlands-l@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>><br clear="none"><b>To:</b> <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:lowlands-l@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:lowlands-l@listserv.linguistlist.org">lowlands-l@listserv.linguistlist.org</a> <br clear="none"><b>Sent:</b> Friday, 21 July 2017, 6:50<br clear="none"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lowlands-l] Google Translate</span></p></div><div id="yiv9549546142yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1500619307510_8888"><p class="yiv9549546142msonormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;"> </span></p><div id="yiv9549546142"><div id="yiv9549546142yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1500619307510_8889"><p class="yiv9549546142msonormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">I don't like the idea of creating a kind of rivalry between minority languages so this thread makes me feel uncomfortable. West Frisian is (as the North Frisian languages and Saterfrisian) a language of its own, even if it might show results of the contact to Dutch. I might say the same about Dutch as I wasn't able to learn it because my Low Saxon was stronger and taking control. I can read Dutch without big problems - so Dutch isn't more than a Low Saxon dialect, right? Okay, that was a pun. I hope you get my point.<br clear="none">Why cannot we applaude Google Translate and Facebook for their decision and work on for getting the same for Low Saxon and other minority languages?<br clear="none"><br clear="none">As for the relations between the languages around the North Sea: Through the centuries they had many contacts because of migration, trade and politics. Of course that had an impact on the languages. English is even the best example how a language develops because of history. Anglo-Saxons, Danes, Normans - they all came to conquer what we know today as England. They all brought their own languages as sign of their mastery.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Greetings from Kiel,<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Anja</span></p><div><p class="yiv9549546142msonormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;"><br clear="none"><br clear="none"><-----Ursprungligt Meddelande-----></span></p><div id="yiv9549546142yqt63874"><table class="yiv9549546142MsoNormalTable" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" width="99%" style="width:99.0%;border-collapse:collapse;"><tr><td colspan="1" rowspan="1" width="7" style="width:2.25pt;background:#EFEFF1;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in;"><p class="yiv9549546142msonormal"> </p></td><td colspan="1" rowspan="1" width="7" style="width:2.25pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in;min-height:98.25pt;"><p class="yiv9549546142msonormal"> </p></td><td colspan="1" rowspan="1" width="98%" style="width:98.0%;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in;min-height:98.25pt;"><p class="yiv9549546142msonormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">From: Lowlands Languages & Cultures [lowlands-l@listserv.linguistlist.org]</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;"><br clear="none">Sent: 20/7/2017 9:50:18 PM<br clear="none">To: <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:lowlands-l@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:lowlands-l@listserv.linguistlist.org">lowlands-l@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br clear="none">Subject: Re: [Lowlands-l] Google Translate </span></p><div><div><p class="yiv9549546142msonormal" dir="RTL" style="text-align:right;direction:rtl;unicode-bidi:embed;"><span dir="LTR">Yes. Definitely lively, that's why we should make Google add it</span><span dir="RTL"></span><span dir="RTL"></span><span lang="AR-SA"><span dir="RTL"></span><span dir="RTL"></span>.</span><span dir="LTR"></span></p></div><div><p class="yiv9549546142msonormal">I really don't see the point of making West Frisian a seperate language though, <span dir="RTL" lang="AR-SA"></span></p></div><div><p class="yiv9549546142msonormal">as it doesn't contain that much of a unique vocabulary, and strongly resembles Dutch. </p></div><div><p class="yiv9549546142msonormal" dir="RTL" style="text-align:right;direction:rtl;unicode-bidi:embed;"><span dir="LTR"> </span></p><div><p class="yiv9549546142msonormal" dir="RTL" style="text-align:right;direction:rtl;unicode-bidi:embed;"><span lang="HE">בתאריך 20 ביולי 2017 8:24 אחה״צ, "</span><span dir="LTR">Lowlands Languages</span><span dir="RTL"></span><span dir="RTL"></span><span lang="AR-SA"><span dir="RTL"></span><span dir="RTL"></span> & </span><span dir="LTR">Cultures</span><span dir="RTL"></span><span dir="RTL"></span><span lang="AR-SA"><span dir="RTL"></span><span dir="RTL"></span>" <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:lowlands-l@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:lowlands-l@listserv.linguistlist.org"><span dir="LTR" lang="EN-US">lowlands-l@listserv. linguistlist.org</span></a><span dir="RTL"></span><span dir="RTL"></span><span dir="RTL"></span><span dir="RTL"></span>> </span><span lang="HE">כתב:</span><span lang="AR-SA"></span></p><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt;"><div><div><p class="yiv9549546142msonormal" dir="RTL" style="text-align:right;direction:rtl;unicode-bidi:embed;"><span dir="LTR">On 20/07/2017 11:18 AM, Eitan wrote</span><span dir="RTL"></span><span dir="RTL"></span><span lang="AR-SA"><span dir="RTL"></span><span dir="RTL"></span>:</span></p></div><blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt;"><div><div><p class="yiv9549546142msonormal">Hi all,<span dir="RTL" lang="AR-SA"></span></p></div><div><p class="yiv9549546142msonormal"><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span> </p></div><div><p class="yiv9549546142msonormal"> I've requested Facebook they should add low german into their language poll since they recently had added West Frisian which isn't much an obvious choice.</p></div><div><p class="yiv9549546142msonormal"> </p></div><div><p class="yiv9549546142msonormal">That being the case, to my surprise Google Translate added West Frisian as well.</p></div><div><p class="yiv9549546142msonormal"> </p></div><div><p class="yiv9549546142msonormal">I don't consider West frisian the closest language to English language because of certain reasons. Here's what I wrote:</p></div><div><p class="yiv9549546142msonormal"> </p></div><div><p class="yiv9549546142msonormal">Low german (of plaudietsch language) is spoken by 450,000 people around the world, which is about on par with Frisian on the total. It has a rich body of literature, including the bible, and many unique expressions and vowel sounds. </p></div><div><p class="yiv9549546142msonormal">Compared to what is spoken in west friesland, it's a fully-fledged and dynamic language. And while it is true that Frisian is recognised minority language in the Netherlands, Plautdietsch is recognised in belize and has a minority status there.</p></div><div><p class="yiv9549546142msonormal"> </p></div><div><p class="yiv9549546142msonormal">Do you agree?</p></div></div></blockquote><p class="yiv9549546142msonormal" dir="RTL" style="text-align:right;direction:rtl;unicode-bidi:embed;"><span lang="AR-SA"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tf55TFRG-2w"><span dir="LTR" lang="EN-US">https://www.youtube.com/watch? v=tf55TFRG-2w</span></a><br clear="none"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lV4S4VLhV0"><span dir="LTR" lang="EN-US">https://www.youtube.com/watch? v=9lV4S4VLhV0</span></a><br clear="none"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdaLj8jkJfI"><span dir="LTR" lang="EN-US">https://www.youtube.com/watch? v=EdaLj8jkJfI</span></a><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></span><span dir="LTR">Sure doesn't look dead to me</span><span dir="RTL"></span><span dir="RTL"></span><span lang="AR-SA"><span dir="RTL"></span><span dir="RTL"></span>.<br clear="none"><br clear="none"></span><span dir="LTR">Ed Alexander</span></p><div><div><p class="yiv9549546142msonormal" dir="RTL" style="text-align:right;direction:rtl;unicode-bidi:embed;"><span dir="RTL"></span><span dir="RTL"></span><span lang="AR-SA"><span dir="RTL"></span><span dir="RTL"></span> </span></p><div><p class="yiv9549546142msonormal" dir="RTL" style="text-align:right;direction:rtl;unicode-bidi:embed;"><span lang="AR-SA"> </span></p></div></div></div></div><p class="yiv9549546142msonormal" dir="RTL" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;text-align:right;direction:rtl;unicode-bidi:embed;"><span lang="AR-SA"><br clear="none">______________________________ _________________<br clear="none"></span><span dir="LTR">LOWLANDS-L mailing list</span><span lang="AR-SA"><br clear="none"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:LOWLANDS-L@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:LOWLANDS-L@listserv.linguistlist.org"><span dir="LTR" lang="EN-US">LOWLANDS-L@listserv.linguistli st.org</span></a><br clear="none"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lowlands-l"><span dir="LTR" lang="EN-US">http://listserv.linguistlist.o rg/mailman/listinfo/lowlands-l</span></a></span></p></blockquote></div></div></div></td></tr></table></div></div></div></div><div id="yiv9549546142yqt00712"><p class="yiv9549546142msonormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">LOWLANDS-L mailing list<br clear="none"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:LOWLANDS-L@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:LOWLANDS-L@listserv.linguistlist.org">LOWLANDS-L@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br clear="none"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lowlands-l">http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lowlands-l</a><span dir="RTL" lang="AR-SA"></span></span></p></div><p class="yiv9549546142msonormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white;"><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;"><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span> </span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yiv9549546142yqt60398"><p class="yiv9549546142MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">LOWLANDS-L mailing list<br clear="none"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:LOWLANDS-L@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:LOWLANDS-L@listserv.linguistlist.org">LOWLANDS-L@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br clear="none"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lowlands-l">http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lowlands-l</a></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></html></div><html><div class="yqt7247223931" id="yqt60062"><body>_______________________________________________<br clear="none">LOWLANDS-L mailing list<br clear="none"><a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:LOWLANDS-L@listserv.linguistlist.org" href="mailto:LOWLANDS-L@listserv.linguistlist.org">LOWLANDS-L@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br clear="none"><a shape="rect" href="http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lowlands-l" target="_blank">http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lowlands-l</a><br clear="none"></body></div></html></div></div></div></div></body></html>