From milinski at cybertours.com  Sat Apr  3 04:45:12 1999
From: milinski at cybertours.com (Michael Milinski)
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 21:45:12 -0700
Subject: language endangerment
Message-ID: <FRI.2.APR.1999.214512.0700.>

Hello,
    I am a senior English major at the University of Southern Maine and
am currently enrolled in my senoir seminar course which is focusing on
endangered and marginalized languages. I am focusing my study on
endangered languages of Central and South America. I would greatly
appreciate any information regarding your political and social opinions
about the status of the Nahuatl language or any other marginalized
languages in Central or South America.
Thank you,
Michael Milinski
University of Southern Maine
milinski at cybertours.com


From odesign at sprynet.com  Mon Apr  5 00:51:55 1999
From: odesign at sprynet.com (Art Ludwig)
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 18:51:55 -0600
Subject: Pomaro dialect
Message-ID: <SUN.4.APR.1999.185155.0600.>

John F. Schwaller wrote:
>
> Over the last two weeks the list had a great discussion of the Pomero
> dialect...



Yes, thanks for the rich responses to my query.  I stand humbled (hey-I
never could spell) and enlightened, and have gained ten years worth of
good direction for my project. I'll do my best to turn it into something
good in however many weeks I end up having to apply to it!

Thanks,

Art

-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-
Art Ludwig
Oasis Design
Ecological Design publishing & consulting
5 San Marcos Trout Club, Santa Barbara, CA 93105-9726, Fax: 805 967-3229
Phone: 967-9956
<http://odesign.home.sprynet.com>        <odesign at sprynet.com>

I'm back in the office for at least a few months & will be checking e
mail every other day.
-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-


From klostina at acci.gr  Mon Apr  5 11:42:30 1999
From: klostina at acci.gr (sardi)
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 05:42:30 -0600
Subject: Fw: I would like your help to learn Nahuatl.
Message-ID: <MON.5.APR.1999.054230.0600.>

> To whom it may interest:
>
> I am a 15year-old Greek student,who is regularly in the Internet.My
> interest in Aztec and general Meso-American tribes began after reading an
> old issue of National Geographic.Since then I have been trying to collect
> all the information I can about Aztecs and their culture.When I found
this
> address,I thought it would be a good opportunity to collect the
information
> that I wanted but also to find someone to teach me the Nahuatl language.
> If anyone is interested in teaching me,please contact me at this e-mail
> address: klostina at acci.gr
> Thank you in advance.
> Eleni Sardi


From schwallr at selway.umt.edu  Mon Apr  5 14:06:48 1999
From: schwallr at selway.umt.edu (John F. Schwaller)
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 08:06:48 -0600
Subject: Diplomado en Estudios de Cultura Nahuatl
Message-ID: <MON.5.APR.1999.080648.0600.>

El Seminario de Lengua y Cultura Nahuatl del Centro de Estudios
Antropologicos de la Universidad de Colima y el Instituto de
Investigaciones Historicas UNAM, anuncian el proximo inicio del=20

DIPLOMADO EN ESTUDIOS DE CULTURA NAHUATL=20
"V Centenario del nacimiento de Fray Bernardino de Sahag=FAn, 1499-1999"=20

Programa=20

mayo 24/25 "Introducci=F3n al estudio de la cultura nahuatl prehispanica",
Arqlg. Eduardo Matos Moctezuma=20

junio 14/15 "El Codice Boturini y el Codice Borgia",  Dr. Patrick Johansson
K.=20

julio 5/6 "Fray Bernardino de Sahagun y el Codice Florentino",  Mtra.
Ascencion Hernandez de Leon-Portilla=20

julio 26/27 "Estetica y arte nahuatl prehispanico",  Dra. Silvia Trejo=20

agosto 16/17 "El mundo nahuatl frente a la conquista",  Dr. Georges Baudot=
=20

sept. 6/7 "Los dioses mexicas",  Dr. Guilheim Olivier=20

sept. 27/28 "El Codice Matritense",  Mtra. Pilar Maynez=20

oct. 18/19 "La muerte en el mundo nahuatl prehispanico I",  Dr. Patrick
Johansson K.=20

nov. 8/9 "La muerte en el mundo nahuatl prehispanico II",  Dr. Patrick
Johansson K.=20

nov. 29/30 "Sobrevivencias del mundo nahuatl",  Mtro. Librado Silva Galeana=
=20

El diplomado se llevara a efecto en las fechas indicadas, en las
instalaciones de la Pinacoteca Universitaria, Colima, Col. Los interesados
en recibir mayor informacion pueden comunicarse con Juan Carlos Reyes G.,
<jcreyes at volcan.ucol.mx>=20
John Frederick Schwaller                             schwallr at selway.umt.edu
Associate Provost                                        406-243-4722
The University of Montana                           FAX 406-243-5937
                          http://www.umt.edu/history/NAHUATL/


From schwallr at selway.umt.edu  Mon Apr 12 15:36:44 1999
From: schwallr at selway.umt.edu (John F. Schwaller)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:36:44 -0600
Subject: Lord's Prayer in Nahuatl
Message-ID: <MON.12.APR.1999.093644.0600.>

I just received a request for the Lord's Prayer in Nahuatl.  The version
here comes from Bartolome de Alva Confessionario mayor y menor, soon to be
published in a bi-lingual edition, translated and edited by Barry Sell, and
myself, with introductory essays by us, and Lu An Homza.  It will come out
from U of Oklahoma Press in June, I am told.

El Pater noster.

TOtatzine in ilhuicac timoetztica, ma =E7enca yectenehuallo in motocatzin, m=
a
hualauh in motlatocayotzin ma chihuallo in motlanequillitzin in yuh
chihuallo in ilhuicac in tlalticpac, auh ma xitechmomaquilli in axcan in
totlaxcal momoztlaye totech monequiz, auh ma xitechmopopolhuillilli in
totlatlacol, in yuh tiquinpopolhuia in techtlatlacalhuia, auh macamo
xitechmocahuilli inic ipan tihuetzizque in tene[y]ecoltiliztli.  Ma in
mochihua.


John Frederick Schwaller                             schwallr at selway.umt.edu
Associate Provost                                        406-243-4722
The University of Montana                           FAX 406-243-5937
                          http://www.umt.edu/history/NAHUATL/


From schwallr at selway.umt.edu  Mon Apr 12 16:02:11 1999
From: schwallr at selway.umt.edu (John F. Schwaller)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 10:02:11 -0600
Subject: System down
Message-ID: <MON.12.APR.1999.100211.0600.>

Dear subscribers

For reasons which are as yet unclear to me, all of the listservs at the
University of Montana were out of commission starting last Wednesday until
sometime this past weekend.  Things now seem to be up and running.  If for
some reason you attempted to post a message or unsubscribe and received an
error message, you may now resend your message/request.

Sorry for any inconvenience.

J. F. Schwaller, List owner


John Frederick Schwaller                             schwallr at selway.umt.edu
Associate Provost                                        406-243-4722
The University of Montana                           FAX 406-243-5937
                          http://www.umt.edu/history/NAHUATL/


From xochiquetzal at earthlink.net  Mon Apr 12 17:30:54 1999
From: xochiquetzal at earthlink.net (Odilia Rodriguez)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 11:30:54 -0600
Subject: Lord's Prayer in Nahuatl
Message-ID: <MON.12.APR.1999.113054.0600.>

John F. Schwaller wrote:
>
> I just received a request for the Lord's Prayer in Nahuatl.  The version
> here comes from Bartolome de Alva Confessionario mayor y menor, soon to be
> published in a bi-lingual edition, translated and edited by Barry Sell, and
> myself, with introductory essays by us, and Lu An Homza.  It will come out
> from U of Oklahoma Press in June, I am told.
>
(cut)

I want to thank you so much for this post and ask that if you have any
other prayers translated or directly Nahuatl I am very interested in
them.  I know many people who would love to learn them and use them in
their daily spiritual practices.

I also sent an e-mail which I never saw which asked for information on
books related to the Mexica Pantheon.  I am doing research on Aztec gods
and goddesses for a comparison to gods/goddesses in another nature based
religion.

any help is most appreciated and again thanx for this prayer.

sinceremente,

Odilia


From Rcrapo at wpo.hass.usu.edu  Mon Apr 12 19:03:22 1999
From: Rcrapo at wpo.hass.usu.edu (Richley Crapo)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 13:03:22 -0600
Subject: Lord's Prayer in Nahuatl -Reply
Message-ID: <MON.12.APR.1999.130322.0600.>

Here's a slightly different version I got from Charles Dibble about 30
years ago.  I don't know his source:

Totatzine in ilhuicac timoyetztica, ma yectenehualo in motocatzin--ma
tohuicpa huallauh in motlatocayotzin--ma chihualo in tlalticpac in
motlanequilitzin inyuh chihualo in ilhuicac--in totlaxcal in momoztlae
totech monequi ma axcan xitechmomaquili ma xitechmopopolhuili in
totlatlacalhuia macamo xitechmomacahuili inic amo ipan tihuetzizque in
teneyeyecoltiliztli zan ye ma xitechmomaquixtili in ihuicpa in amo
qualli.

Richley Crapo


From micc at home.com  Mon Apr 12 19:06:25 1999
From: micc at home.com (micc)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 13:06:25 -0600
Subject: Lord's Prayer in Nahuatl
Message-ID: <MON.12.APR.1999.130625.0600.>

for some reason, i did not get this line correctly, can you please
repost?

Thanks!

"John F. Schwaller" wrote:


> > TOtatzine in ilhuicac timoetztica, ma =E7enca yectenehuallo in motocatzin, m=
> a
> hualauh


From daphni at voicenet.com  Mon Apr 12 20:47:46 1999
From: daphni at voicenet.com (Wanda Schwandt)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:47:46 -0600
Subject: names
Message-ID: <MON.12.APR.1999.144746.0600.>

Hello all,

I am writing a children's book that deals with (in part) the Aztecs in
1500's. I am looking for names for some of the characters in the
Nahuatl language.  Male and female. Any help???

As I write, I may have more questions. Is this the place to get a few
answers?


Best regards,
 Wanda                            mailto:daphni at voicenet.com


From milinski at cybertours.com  Tue Apr 13 04:36:54 1999
From: milinski at cybertours.com (Michael Milinski)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 22:36:54 -0600
Subject: Mayan Languages
Message-ID: <MON.12.APR.1999.223654.0600.>

Does anybody have any first hand information about the preservation of
both the Nahuatl and the Mayan languages? Also if you have any
information about the ALMG in Guatemala I would appreciate recieving it.

Thanks,
Michael Milinski
University of Southern Maine


From milinski at cybertours.com  Tue Apr 13 04:39:53 1999
From: milinski at cybertours.com (Michael Milinski)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 22:39:53 -0600
Subject: Mayan languages
Message-ID: <MON.12.APR.1999.223953.0600.>

Does anybody have any information about the preservation of the Nahuatl
and the Mayan languages? Also if you have any information about the ALMG
in Guatemala I would appreciate recieving it.
Thanks,
Michael Milinski
University of Southern Maine


From nahuat-l at server.umt.edu  Tue Apr 13 19:25:18 1999
From: nahuat-l at server.umt.edu (by way of "John F. Schwaller" <schwallr@selway.umt.edu>)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 13:25:18 -0600
Subject: Sound / video of Nahuatl
Message-ID: <TUE.13.APR.1999.132518.0600.>

Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 11:07:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: "K. Smith" <sumizu at u.washington.edu>
To: nahuat-l at server.umt.edu
Subject: nahuatl tapes?

Hi

I'm learning Nahuatl on my own using R. Joe Campbell's books and
Andrews' grammar but I'm getting desparate to hear the sound of what I'm
learning.

Does anyone have or know of any audio tapes (or video) for learning. I can
only assume the pronunciation of certain sounds and I don't want to
develop any horrible speech habits this early!

Thanks,

Kevin Smith


From tezozomoc at std.teradyne.com  Tue Apr 13 19:54:23 1999
From: tezozomoc at std.teradyne.com (Tezozomoc)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 13:54:23 -0600
Subject: Sound / video of Nahuatl
Message-ID: <TUE.13.APR.1999.135423.0600.>

As much as I hate to do this I will do it at the request of a friend.

You can get the Gospel of John in nahuatl de Guerrero
and   The Gospel of John in nahuatl norte de puebla.

from the following organization.
Audio Scriptures International
P.O. Box 28417
San Diego, Ca 92198-8417
(619) 637-0867
fax (619) 673-8030

The price is reaonsable as you can see from the continual spiritual
oppression of  the people.

I know am going to get slack for this.


Tezozomoc.


"by way of John F. Schwaller " wrote:

> Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 11:07:36 -0700 (PDT)
> From: "K. Smith" <sumizu at u.washington.edu>
> To: nahuat-l at server.umt.edu
> Subject: nahuatl tapes?
>
> Hi
>
> I'm learning Nahuatl on my own using R. Joe Campbell's books and
> Andrews' grammar but I'm getting desparate to hear the sound of what I'm
> learning.
>
> Does anyone have or know of any audio tapes (or video) for learning. I can
> only assume the pronunciation of certain sounds and I don't want to
> develop any horrible speech habits this early!
>
> Thanks,
>
> Kevin Smith


From kammler at stud.uni-frankfurt.de  Tue Apr 13 23:17:43 1999
From: kammler at stud.uni-frankfurt.de (Henry Kammler)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 17:17:43 -0600
Subject: Sound / video of Nahuatl
Message-ID: <TUE.13.APR.1999.171743.0600.>

You may like to listen to a tape that features different dialects currently
spoken in MX:
it's a tape called "Nahuas" from the series "?Qu=E9 lengua hablas?" no. 3,
issued by the INI together with the SEDESOL (Secretar=EDa de Desarrollo
Social).=20

The goal of the tape is actually to be useful for officials who pick up
ind=EDgenas that need help when they've got lost in the city or something an=
d
don't speak Spanish. Then they are supposed to play back that this kind of
tape to the campesino in order to find out where he's from. Which is
totally unrealistic, of course, but makes a nice comparison possible. It
contains sentences like "hi, this guy here is a good one, he will help you,
don't be afraid, just tell him where you are from ..." in five nahuatl
dialects.

Henry


From schwallr at selway.umt.edu  Wed Apr 14 14:20:42 1999
From: schwallr at selway.umt.edu (John F. Schwaller)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 08:20:42 -0600
Subject: Sound / video of Nahuatl
Message-ID: <WED.14.APR.1999.082042.0600.>

As was noted over the summer.  Perhaps the easiest way is to rent "Zorro"
There is a short dialogue in the middle of the film in which the "nanny"
character speaks Nahuatl.

J. F. Schwaller, List Owner


John Frederick Schwaller                             schwallr at selway.umt.edu
Associate Provost                                        406-243-4722
The University of Montana                           FAX 406-243-5937
                          http://www.umt.edu/history/NAHUATL/


From schwallr at selway.umt.edu  Wed Apr 14 14:23:42 1999
From: schwallr at selway.umt.edu (John F. Schwaller)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 08:23:42 -0600
Subject: Lord's Prayer w/out  cedilla
Message-ID: <WED.14.APR.1999.082342.0600.>

In the first posting, I realize that there was a cedilla in the first line
which came out as garbage on some machines.  Here is a corrected [sic] copy


TOtatzine in ilhuicac timoetztica, ma cenca yectenehuallo in motocatzin, ma
hualauh in motlatocayotzin ma chihuallo in motlanequillitzin in yuh
chihuallo in ilhuicac in tlalticpac, auh ma xitechmomaquilli in axcan in
totlaxcal momoztlaye totech monequiz, auh ma xitechmopopolhuillilli in
totlatlacol, in yuh tiquinpopolhuia in techtlatlacalhuia, auh macamo
xitechmocahuilli inic ipan tihuetzizque in tene[y]ecoltiliztli.  Ma in
mochihua.

J. F. Schwaller
John Frederick Schwaller                             schwallr at selway.umt.edu
Associate Provost                                        406-243-4722
The University of Montana                           FAX 406-243-5937
                          http://www.umt.edu/history/NAHUATL/


From schwallr at selway.umt.edu  Wed Apr 14 14:39:27 1999
From: schwallr at selway.umt.edu (John F. Schwaller)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 08:39:27 -0600
Subject: Other Prayers from Alba
Message-ID: <WED.14.APR.1999.083927.0600.>

There was a request for other prayers in Nahuatl.  These come from the
Confessionario mayor y menor of Bartolome de Alva, 1634, soon to appear in
an English-Nahuatl-Spanish edition edited by Barry Sell and myself, from
the University of Oklahoma Press, June 1999.

The Creed: [I have removed cedillas and replaced with c or z]
	EL CREDO.

Nicnoneltoquitia in cenhuellitini Dios Tetatzin in oquimochihuilli in
ilhuicatl in tlalticpactli, no nicnoneltoquitia in Totecuyo Iesu Christo in
zan huel yceltzin ypiltzin Dios in iteotlamahuizolticatzinco Spiritu Sancto
omonacayotzino:  omotlacatilli ytetzinco in Santa Maria mocemacitzinotica
cemicac ychpochtli:  motlahyyohuilli ytencopa in Pontio Pilato, +
Cruztitech mamazoaltilloc, momiquilli tococ motemohui in mictlan,
yyelhuitica, mozcallitzino intloc in mimique, motlecahui in ilhuicac
ymayeccampantzinco omotlallitzinoto in cenhuellitini Dios Tetatzin, auh ye
ompa in hualmehuitiz in quinmotlatzontequillilliquiuh in yolque, yhuan in
mimique no nicnoneltoquitia in Dios Spiritu Sancto Sancta Yglesia
Catholica, yhuan nitlaneltoca in itechcopa in innecentlallilliz in sanctome
yhuan in itechpa, tlatlacolpolihuilliztli yhuan ca oc cepa yolihuaz.


	El Ave Maria.

MA ximopaquiltitie Sancta Mariatzine timocentemilltitica in
teoqualnexilizmahuizotl gracia, motlantzinco moyetztica in tlatoani Dios,
inic ticenquizcayectenehualloni tiquinmopanahuillia in mochintin cihua, auh
no cenquizcayectenehualloni in ytlaaquillo in moxillantzin Iesus, Sancta
Mariatzine, in titlaconantzin Dios, ma topampa ximotlatlauhtilli in ye
axcan yhuan in ye tomiquiztempan, Ma in mochihua.

	
	La Salue [Regina].

MA ximopaquiltitie tlatocacihuapille, in tinantzin tetlaocollilliztli,
nemillitzintle, tzopellicatzintle tonechixcayellitzine, ma ximopaquiltitie,
ca timitzontotzatzillillia in tipilhuan Eua, mohuiccopatzinco
tonelciciuhtinemi tichocatinemi in nican choquizixtlahuacan iho
totepantlatocatzine ma ye cuelle, ma xitech, hualmocnoytilli, auh ma no
xitechhualmotitilli in itlaaquillo moxillantzin Iesus in cenca
yectenehualloni intla otictonquixtique in totlamacehualiz iho
ycnoacatzintle yho tetlaocollianie, yho tzopellicatzintle Sancta Mariatzine
cemicac ychpochtzintle.



J. F. Schwaller, List Owner	

John Frederick Schwaller                             schwallr at selway.umt.edu
Associate Provost                                        406-243-4722
The University of Montana                           FAX 406-243-5937
                          http://www.umt.edu/history/NAHUATL/


From schwallr at selway.umt.edu  Wed Apr 14 17:23:24 1999
From: schwallr at selway.umt.edu (John F. Schwaller)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 11:23:24 -0600
Subject: Nuevos hallazgos sobre chontales
Message-ID: <WED.14.APR.1999.112324.0600.>

>
>Puede ser de interes para nuestros colegas de H-Mexico el siguiente
>articulo.
>
>--Lon Pearson
>Department of Modern Languages
>Professor of Spanish
>University of Nebraska at Kearney
>Book  Review  Editor  for   _Chasqui:   Journal  of  Latin  American
>Literature_
>              <http://www.unk.edu/departments/languages/faculty.htm#a3>
>
>
>Se encuentra en la siguiente direccion (URL):
>
><http://www.eurekalert.org/releases/psu-wsm031999.html>
>EMBARGOED FOR RELEASE: 27 MARCH 1999 AT 09:00:00 ET US
>
>     Contact: A'ndrea Elyse Messer
>     aem1 at psu.edu
>     814-865-9481
>     Penn State Univ.
>
>     War Stories May Be Fish Tales
>
>     Chicago, Ill. -- To the victor go the spoils of war and usually the
>bragging rights, but how does one determine if claims made by winners
>are accurate?
>	Jay Silverstein, graduate student in anthropology at Penn State, may
>have proof that Aztec reports of annihilation of the Chontal were
>grossly exaggerated.
>	"Aztec narratives claim that the Chontal, a group living in the buffer
>area between the Aztec and Tarascan Empires, were annihilated in 1487,"
>Silverstein told attendees today (March 26) at the annual meeting of the
>Society of American Archaeology in Chicago. "However, regional documents
>suggest the Chontal always had their own ruler, even under Aztec
>authority, and were present when the Spanish came."
>	Silverstein, who conducted archaeological survey about 100 miles
>southwest of Mexico City, is trying to reconstruct the Aztec/Tarascan
>frontier from a time just before European contact. Using 16th-century
>documents and archaeological evidence, he identified a frontier site
>that was probably the Chontal fortress of Oztuma. Confusion exists,
>however, because a site identified in the 1940s as Oztuma is an Aztec
>site.
>	The documents agree that the Aztec incorporated the Chontal city-state
>of Oztuma into their empire between 1469 and 1480. Also, at this time,
>the Aztecs entered into a war with their western neighbor, the Tarascan
>empire. The Aztec crowned a new king in 1487, in Mexico City, but
>representatives of the Chontal did not attend the coronation. Aztec
>scouts reported the Chontal city-states of Oztuma, Teloloapan and
>Alahuiztlan in rebellion. The Chontal lost the subsequent Aztec/Chontal
>War.
>	"Both sets of documents indicate the Chontal lost, but the central core
>documents say the Aztec destroyed the cities and Aztec citizens replaced
>the Chontal, while the periphery documents tell a different story," says
>Silverstein.
>	The Aztec documents are narrative histories written after the Spanish
>conquered Mexico City. The frontier documents are parts of the
>Relaciones Geograficas, a series of documents developed in the sixteenth
>century from answers to standardized questions asked of subject towns in
>New Spain. The Relaciones show the governor of the Oztuma area as Diego
>Osorio, son of the man who was king when the Spanish conquered Mexico in
>1521.
>	"The Relaciones also say that the Chontal always had a king they
>respected, implying a Chontal king," says Silverstein. "However, a giant
>Aztec fortress, discovered and mapped in the 1940s, exists and a town
>below is said to be the location of Oztuma after the Spanish came."
>	Silverstein found the Aztec fortress and town, but, as most previous
>archaeologists discovered, the geographic information from the 16th
>century does not work if this town is the Oztuma of the Relaciones.
>Something is wrong.
>	"We heard a rumor that other documents existed in San Simon Oztuma, but
>the town was abandoned," says Silverstein. "We found the documents in
>the near by town of Ixtepec."
>	A document dated to 1585 carries Don Diego Osorio's signature, proving
>he was a real person and strongly suggesting that the Chontal survived
>the Aztec.
>	Above Ixtepec is an old fortress. "I believe that this fortress is the
>original Chontal Fortress of Oztuma," says Silverstein. "We found only a
>very little Aztec pottery there. Most of the pottery sherds were Chontal
>Red on Buff."
>	It appears that when the Spanish came, they moved the Chontal from
>their mountain stronghold at Ixtepec to the valley of San Simon Oztuma
>and that the Aztecs who had built their Fortress of Oztuma six miles
>southeast of the Chontal fort, moved down to the town of Acapetlahuaya.
>So the Aztec did come to the area to build a
>fortress.
>	However, the original Chontal Oztuma fortress remained and, with an
>Aztec fortress named Oztuma, and a town called San Simon Oztuma things
>became very confused.
>	"If Chontal Oztuma is used as the head town in the Relacion
>Geographica, the directions make sense," says Silverstein of Penn State.
>"We found a line of fortresses, including Chontal and Aztec sites, built
>to protect the Aztec empire from the Tarascans."
>	Other interesting sites located during the survey include a wall
>running about a mile and three quarters that cuts off a bend in a river.
>The wall is in the no-man's land between the two empires.
>	"Locals say that in the 1940s the wall was about 5-feet high," says
>Silverstein. "The foundation style indicates it predates the Spanish."
>	At one end of the wall there is evidence of a battle. The area is
>strewn with sling shot balls, projectile points and other obsidian
>debris.
>	"My guess is that it was a fortress built by the Chontal to try and
>hold the river valley from the Tarascans and their allies," says the
>Penn State researcher. "The Chontal were probably forced to abandon this
>forward defense within the first decades of the war."
>	The Chontal were caught between two great pre-Hispanic empires.
>Usually, people in this situation are written out of history, but the
>archaeological remains show that the Chontal played an integral role in
>the defense of the Aztec empire and maintained their identity even after
>the Spanish came. After the fall of the Aztec empire to Hernan Cortes in
>1521, the Tarascan force that had been besieging the Aztec fortress
>retreated and the Chontal, using Spanish law, reasserted their political
>dominance over the isolated Aztec garrison.
>
>                                    ###
>
>     EDITORS: Mr. Silverstein is at 814-466-3461 or jes20 at psu.edu by
>email.
>
>
>--
>Antonio Ibarra, moderador
>ibarrara at servidor.unam.mx
>Isabel Avella, editora asociada
>===============================
>
>
John Frederick Schwaller                             schwallr at selway.umt.edu
Associate Provost                                        406-243-4722
The University of Montana                           FAX 406-243-5937
                          http://www.umt.edu/history/NAHUATL/


From ECOLING at aol.com  Wed Apr 14 18:27:15 1999
From: ECOLING at aol.com (ECOLING at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 12:27:15 -0600
Subject: Nuevos hallazgos sobre chontales
Message-ID: <WED.14.APR.1999.122715.0600.>

John F. Schwaller:

May I pass the following message on to the AZTLAN email list?
Thanks, Lloyd Anderson

In a message dated 4/14/99 1:24:06 PM, you wrote:

>><http://www.eurekalert.org/releases/psu-wsm031999.html>
>>EMBARGOED FOR RELEASE: 27 MARCH 1999 AT 09:00:00 ET US
>>
>>     Contact: A'ndrea Elyse Messer
>>     aem1 at psu.edu
>>     814-865-9481
>>     Penn State Univ.
>>
>>     War Stories May Be Fish Tales
>>
>>     Chicago, Ill. -- To the victor go the spoils of war and usually the
>>bragging rights, but how does one determine if claims made by winners
>>are accurate?
>>	Jay Silverstein, graduate student in anthropology at Penn State, may
>>have proof that Aztec reports of annihilation of the Chontal were
>>grossly exaggerated.
>>	"Aztec narratives claim that the Chontal, a group living in the buffer
>>area between the Aztec and Tarascan Empires, were annihilated in 1487,"
>>Silverstein told attendees today (March 26) at the annual meeting of the
>>Society of American Archaeology in Chicago. "However, regional documents
>>suggest the Chontal always had their own ruler, even under Aztec
>>authority, and were present when the Spanish came."
>>	Silverstein, who conducted archaeological survey about 100 miles
>>southwest of Mexico City, is trying to reconstruct the Aztec/Tarascan
>>frontier from a time just before European contact. Using 16th-century
>>documents and archaeological evidence, he identified a frontier site
>>that was probably the Chontal fortress of Oztuma. Confusion exists,
>>however, because a site identified in the 1940s as Oztuma is an Aztec
>>site.
>>	The documents agree that the Aztec incorporated the Chontal city-state
>>of Oztuma into their empire between 1469 and 1480. Also, at this time,
>>the Aztecs entered into a war with their western neighbor, the Tarascan
>>empire. The Aztec crowned a new king in 1487, in Mexico City, but
>>representatives of the Chontal did not attend the coronation. Aztec
>>scouts reported the Chontal city-states of Oztuma, Teloloapan and
>>Alahuiztlan in rebellion. The Chontal lost the subsequent Aztec/Chontal
>>War.
>>	"Both sets of documents indicate the Chontal lost, but the central
core
>>documents say the Aztec destroyed the cities and Aztec citizens replaced
>>the Chontal, while the periphery documents tell a different story," says
>>Silverstein.
>>	The Aztec documents are narrative histories written after the Spanish
>>conquered Mexico City. The frontier documents are parts of the
>>Relaciones Geograficas, a series of documents developed in the sixteenth
>>century from answers to standardized questions asked of subject towns in
>>New Spain. The Relaciones show the governor of the Oztuma area as Diego
>>Osorio, son of the man who was king when the Spanish conquered Mexico in
>>1521.
>>	"The Relaciones also say that the Chontal always had a king they
>>respected, implying a Chontal king," says Silverstein. "However, a giant
>>Aztec fortress, discovered and mapped in the 1940s, exists and a town
>>below is said to be the location of Oztuma after the Spanish came."
>>	Silverstein found the Aztec fortress and town, but, as most previous
>>archaeologists discovered, the geographic information from the 16th
>>century does not work if this town is the Oztuma of the Relaciones.
>>Something is wrong.
>>	"We heard a rumor that other documents existed in San Simon Oztuma,
but
>>the town was abandoned," says Silverstein. "We found the documents in
>>the near by town of Ixtepec."
>>	A document dated to 1585 carries Don Diego Osorio's signature, proving
>>he was a real person and strongly suggesting that the Chontal survived
>>the Aztec.
>>	Above Ixtepec is an old fortress. "I believe that this fortress is the
>>original Chontal Fortress of Oztuma," says Silverstein. "We found only a
>>very little Aztec pottery there. Most of the pottery sherds were Chontal
>>Red on Buff."
>>	It appears that when the Spanish came, they moved the Chontal from
>>their mountain stronghold at Ixtepec to the valley of San Simon Oztuma
>>and that the Aztecs who had built their Fortress of Oztuma six miles
>>southeast of the Chontal fort, moved down to the town of Acapetlahuaya.
>>So the Aztec did come to the area to build a
>>fortress.
>>	However, the original Chontal Oztuma fortress remained and, with an
>>Aztec fortress named Oztuma, and a town called San Simon Oztuma things
>>became very confused.
>>	"If Chontal Oztuma is used as the head town in the Relacion
>>Geographica, the directions make sense," says Silverstein of Penn State.
>>"We found a line of fortresses, including Chontal and Aztec sites, built
>>to protect the Aztec empire from the Tarascans."
>>	Other interesting sites located during the survey include a wall
>>running about a mile and three quarters that cuts off a bend in a river.
>>The wall is in the no-man's land between the two empires.
>>	"Locals say that in the 1940s the wall was about 5-feet high," says
>>Silverstein. "The foundation style indicates it predates the Spanish."
>>	At one end of the wall there is evidence of a battle. The area is
>>strewn with sling shot balls, projectile points and other obsidian
>>debris.
>>	"My guess is that it was a fortress built by the Chontal to try and
>>hold the river valley from the Tarascans and their allies," says the
>>Penn State researcher. "The Chontal were probably forced to abandon this
>>forward defense within the first decades of the war."
>>	The Chontal were caught between two great pre-Hispanic empires.
>>Usually, people in this situation are written out of history, but the
>>archaeological remains show that the Chontal played an integral role in
>>the defense of the Aztec empire and maintained their identity even after
>>the Spanish came. After the fall of the Aztec empire to Hernan Cortes in
>>1521, the Tarascan force that had been besieging the Aztec fortress
>>retreated and the Chontal, using Spanish law, reasserted their political
>>dominance over the isolated Aztec garrison.
>>
>>                                    ###
>>
>>     EDITORS: Mr. Silverstein is at 814-466-3461 or jes20 at psu.edu by
>>email.
>>
>>
>>--
>>Antonio Ibarra, moderador
>>ibarrara at servidor.unam.mx
>>Isabel Avella, editora asociada
>>===============================
>>
>>
>John Frederick Schwaller                             schwallr at selway.umt.edu
>Associate Provost                                        406-243-4722
>The University of Montana                           FAX 406-243-5937
>                          http://www.umt.edu/history/NAHUATL/


From xochiquetzal at earthlink.net  Fri Apr 16 08:31:52 1999
From: xochiquetzal at earthlink.net (Odilia Rodriguez)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 02:31:52 -0600
Subject: Books on the Mexia Pantheon
Message-ID: <FRI.16.APR.1999.023152.0600.>

Dear Listeros,

I am making another try at requesting information on books regarding the
Mexica/Azteca Pantheon.  I am doing research for a book comparing the
gods/goddesses of the Mexica to those of a different nature based
religion.  I have good material thus far but would like to use some
other references.  Gracias in advance.  Odilia


From lesbre at univ-tlse2.fr  Fri Apr 16 13:21:12 1999
From: lesbre at univ-tlse2.fr (Patrick LESBRE)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 07:21:12 -0600
Subject: Books on the Mexia Pantheon
Message-ID: <FRI.16.APR.1999.072112.0600.>

If you read franch you can find an excellent and recent book by Guilhem
OLIVIER "Moqueries et m=E9tamorphoses d'un dieu azt=E8que. Tezcatlipoca le
Seigneur au miroir fumant". It will be translate in english but in one two
years.

        Patrick

At 02:33 16/04/99 -0600, vous avez =E9crit:
>Dear Listeros,
>
>I am making another try at requesting information on books regarding the
>Mexica/Azteca Pantheon.  I am doing research for a book comparing the
>gods/goddesses of the Mexica to those of a different nature based
>religion.  I have good material thus far but would like to use some
>other references.  Gracias in advance.  Odilia
>
>

___________________

Patrick LESBRE
Universit=E9 de Toulouse le Mirail
32 rue la Fonderie
31000 TOULOUSE
t=E9l. 05 61 14 26 99
fax  05 61 50 49 25
email lesbre at univ-tlse2.fr


From ochoa at scd.hp.com  Fri Apr 16 14:08:12 1999
From: ochoa at scd.hp.com (Marcos Ochoa)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 08:08:12 -0600
Subject: Books on the Mexia Pantheon
Message-ID: <FRI.16.APR.1999.080812.0600.>

> From nahuat-l at server.umt.edu Fri Apr 16 04:38:56 EDT 1999
> Received: from palrel1.hp.com (palrel1.hp.com [15.81.168.10]) by
mentor4.scd.hp.com with ESMTP (8.7.1/8.7.1) id BAA06234 for
<ochoa at mentor4.scd.hp.com>; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 01:38:55 -0700 (PDT)
> Received: from server.umt.edu (server.umt.edu [150.131.14.70])
	by palrel1.hp.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 817653F8
	for <ochoa at mentor4.scd.hp.com>; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 01:35:17 -0700 (PDT)
> Received: from listserv.umt.edu (server at localhost [127.0.0.1])
          by server.umt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.4) with SMTP
	  id CAA05493; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 02:32:45 -0600
> Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 02:32:45 -0600
> Message-Id: <371845E0.66FE at earthlink.net>
> Errors-To: schwallr at selway.umt.edu
> Reply-To: nahuat-l at server.umt.edu
> Originator: nahuat-l at listserv.umt.edu
> Sender: nahuat-l at server.umt.edu
> Precedence: bulk
> From: Odilia Rodriguez <xochiquetzal at earthlink.net>
> To: Multiple recipients of list <nahuat-l at server.umt.edu>
> Subject: Books on the Mexia Pantheon
> X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
> Content-Length: 340
> Status: RO
>
> Dear Listeros,
>
> I am making another try at requesting information on books regarding the
> Mexica/Azteca Pantheon.  I am doing research for a book comparing the
> gods/goddesses of the Mexica to those of a different nature based
> religion.  I have good material thus far but would like to use some
> other references.  Gracias in advance.  Odilia


From Huaxyacac at aol.com  Fri Apr 16 14:38:54 1999
From: Huaxyacac at aol.com (Huaxyacac at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 08:38:54 -0600
Subject: Books on the Mexia Pantheon
Message-ID: <FRI.16.APR.1999.083854.0600.>

Odilia,
To really understand how Aztec folk religion worked, I suggest you read
Hernando Ruiz de Alarcon's Tratado de las supersticiones. There are two
translations available: I prefer Andrews and Hassig's (U Oklahoma, 1984), but
Coe and Whittaker (Institute for Mesoamerican Studies) isn't bad, either.
Alec Christensen
Augusta State University


From dowden at mscd.edu  Sun Apr 18 20:33:24 1999
From: dowden at mscd.edu (CD)
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 14:33:24 -0600
Subject: Women in struggle...
Message-ID: <SUN.18.APR.1999.143324.0600.>

A close friend of mine is working with a group of indigenous women here in
Denver to create a proactive group that works with issues realting to
indigenous women.  The group will focus its work here in the Denver
community and throughout Turtle Island.  In the proccess of getting the
program off the ground they are setting up a fundraiser to send some young
women to Chiapas to work with women in a bread making cooperative.  They
need the phrase "Women in struggle" translated in as many indigenous
languages as possible.  The translations will be used on t-shirts and
flyers to promote the group, spread the Idea, and hoepefully get interest
and support from other women here in the Denver community. It would be
greatly appreciated if anyone could translate this into Nahuat.  Thank
you.

Take care...

VIVA ABYA YALA!

Hun Hun

"CD"
dowden at mscd.edu

<---silence--->


From xochiquetzal at earthlink.net  Sun Apr 18 23:39:39 1999
From: xochiquetzal at earthlink.net (Odilia Rodriguez)
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 17:39:39 -0600
Subject: Books on the Mexia Pantheon
Message-ID: <SUN.18.APR.1999.173939.0600.>

Patrick LESBRE wrote:
>
> If you read franch you can find an excellent and recent book by Guilhem
> OLIVIER "Moqueries et m=E9tamorphoses d'un dieu azt=E8que. Tezcatlipoca le
> Seigneur au miroir fumant". It will be translate in english but in one two
> years.
>
>         Patrick

> ___________________
>
> Patrick LESBRE
> Universit=E9 de Toulouse le Mirail
> 32 rue la Fonderie
> 31000 TOULOUSE
> t=E9l. 05 61 14 26 99
> fax  05 61 50 49 25
> email lesbre at univ-tlse2.fr

Thank you for your reply, I am fluent in Spanish but do not read French
that well.  I would like to see the book in French--see what I can get
from it--and will definately look for it when it comes out in English.

Odilia


From xochiquetzal at earthlink.net  Sun Apr 18 23:42:35 1999
From: xochiquetzal at earthlink.net (Odilia Rodriguez)
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 17:42:35 -0600
Subject: Books on the Mexia Pantheon
Message-ID: <SUN.18.APR.1999.174235.0600.>

Huaxyacac at aol.com wrote:
>
> Odilia,
> To really understand how Aztec folk religion worked, I suggest you read
> Hernando Ruiz de Alarcon's Tratado de las supersticiones. There are two
> translations available: I prefer Andrews and Hassig's (U Oklahoma, 1984), but
> Coe and Whittaker (Institute for Mesoamerican Studies) isn't bad, either.
> Alec Christensen
> Augusta State University

Hola,

I want to thank you and everyone else who replied to my e-mail.  I knew
of many of the books but not the Glenniden one and this book by Ruiz de
Alarcon I had no idea it was translated into English so thanks for that
very much.

A friend of mine, Francisco Alarcon wrote a lovely book called the Snake
Poems inspired by Ruiz de Alarcon's book and at the time I believe he
had to translate from Spanish.  In any event I appreciate all of the
suggestions.  If anyone else on the list has further suggestions please
e-mail me.

Odilia


From tezozomoc at std.teradyne.com  Mon Apr 19 16:43:08 1999
From: tezozomoc at std.teradyne.com (Tezozomoc)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 10:43:08 -0600
Subject: Women in struggle...
Message-ID: <MON.19.APR.1999.104308.0600.>

I would recommend the following:

1.     Cihua:meh in Ya:o:tihua = women in struggle  {woman + plural, Ya:o:
(war), ti (connective), -hua (ownners).

2.    Cihua:meh in ya:o:pan.  = women in battle (struggle).


Tezozomoc



CD wrote:

> A close friend of mine is working with a group of indigenous women here in
> Denver to create a proactive group that works with issues realting to
> indigenous women.  The group will focus its work here in the Denver
> community and throughout Turtle Island.  In the proccess of getting the
> program off the ground they are setting up a fundraiser to send some young
> women to Chiapas to work with women in a bread making cooperative.  They
> need the phrase "Women in struggle" translated in as many indigenous
> languages as possible.  The translations will be used on t-shirts and
> flyers to promote the group, spread the Idea, and hoepefully get interest
> and support from other women here in the Denver community. It would be
> greatly appreciated if anyone could translate this into Nahuat.  Thank
> you.
>
> Take care...
>
> VIVA ABYA YALA!
>
> Hun Hun
>
> "CD"
> dowden at mscd.edu
>
> <---silence--->


From tezozomoc at std.teradyne.com  Mon Apr 19 17:01:32 1999
From: tezozomoc at std.teradyne.com (Tezozomoc)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 11:01:32 -0600
Subject: Women in struggle...
Message-ID: <MON.19.APR.1999.110132.0600.>

There was a 3rd one I wanted to include.


Cihuameh in tlayecoliztli.


Tezozomoc wrote:

> I would recommend the following:
>
> 1.     Cihua:meh in Ya:o:tihua = women in struggle  {woman + plural, Ya:o:
> (war), ti (connective), -hua (ownners).
>
> 2.    Cihua:meh in ya:o:pan.  = women in battle (struggle).
>
> Tezozomoc
>
> CD wrote:
>
> > A close friend of mine is working with a group of indigenous women here in
> > Denver to create a proactive group that works with issues realting to
> > indigenous women.  The group will focus its work here in the Denver
> > community and throughout Turtle Island.  In the proccess of getting the
> > program off the ground they are setting up a fundraiser to send some young
> > women to Chiapas to work with women in a bread making cooperative.  They
> > need the phrase "Women in struggle" translated in as many indigenous
> > languages as possible.  The translations will be used on t-shirts and
> > flyers to promote the group, spread the Idea, and hoepefully get interest
> > and support from other women here in the Denver community. It would be
> > greatly appreciated if anyone could translate this into Nahuat.  Thank
> > you.
> >
> > Take care...
> >
> > VIVA ABYA YALA!
> >
> > Hun Hun
> >
> > "CD"
> > dowden at mscd.edu
> >
> > <---silence--->


From loyo at servidor.unam.mx  Wed Apr 21 17:22:28 1999
From: loyo at servidor.unam.mx (Martha Beatriz Loyo Camacho (by way of "John F. Schwaller"
 <schwallr@selway.umt.edu>))
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 11:22:28 -0600
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ciclo_de_Conferencias_sobre_Sahag=FAn?=
Message-ID: <WED.21.APR.1999.112228.0600.>

>>Subject: Ciclo de Conferencias sobre Sahag=FAn
>>
>>El Instituto de Investigaciones Hist=F3ricas=20
>>de la Universidad Nacional Aut=F3noma de M=E9xico
>>y el Museo Nacional de Antropolog=EDa
>>del Instituto Nacional de Antropolog=EDa e Historia
>>
>>se complacen en invitarle al
>>
>>Ciclo de conferencias
>>BERNARDINO DE SAHAG=DAN
>>Quinientos a=F1os de presencia
>>
>>
>>Martes 27 de abril
>>La Historia general de Sahag=FAn a la luz de las enciclopedias
>>de la tradici=F3n greco-romana,
>>por Ascensi=F3n H. de Le=F3n-Portilla
>>
>>Martes 4 de mayo
>>El pante=F3n prehisp=E1nico en la Historia general de Sahag=FAn
>>por Guilhem Olivier
>>
>>Martes 11de mayo
>>Los mitos en la obra de Sahag=FAn
>>Alfredo L=F3pez Austin
>>
>>Martes l8 de mayo
>>La sociedad ind=EDgena en la Historia general,
>>por Federico Navarrete
>>
>>Martes 25 de mayo
>>Los huehuehtlahtolli, testimonios de la antigua palabra,
>> recogidos por Sahag=FAn,
>>por Librado Silva Galeana
>>
>>Martes 1 de junio
>>Bernardino de Sahag=FAn ling=FCista.
>>por Pilar M=E1ynez
>>
>>Martes 8de junio
>>Las plantas en la Historia general=20
>>por Javier Lozoya
>>
>>Martes 15de junio
>>Los animales en la obra de Sahag=FAn,
>>por Mercedes de la Garza
>>
>>Martes 22 de junio
>>Enfermedades y medicina ind=EDgena en la obra de Sahag=FAn,
>>por Carlos Viesca
>>
>>Martes 29 de junio
>>La Historia general: un encuentro de dos sistemas cognitivos,
>>por Patrick Johansson
>>
>>Martes 6 de julio
>>Los l=EDmites del conocimiento y el aprecio del Otro,
>>por Luis Villoro
>>
>>Martes 13 de julio
>>Intentos de nahuatlizaci=F3n del cristianismo en los Coloquios de Sahag=FA=
n,
>>por Francisco Morales Valerio
>>
>>Martes 20 de julio
>>La Conquista de M=E9xico, seg=FAn los testimonios recogidos por Sahag=FAn,
>>por Georges Baudot
>>
>>Las conferencias ser=E1n todos los martes,
>>de abril a julio, a las 19:00 horas, en
>>
>>MUSEO NACIONAL DE ANTROPOLOG=CDA
>>Auditorio Jaime Torres Bodet
>>Reforma y Calzada Gandhi,
>>Chapultepec, Polanco
>>
>-------------------------------------------------------
>               Lic. Miriam C. Izquierdo
>                 Secretaria T=E9cnica
>       Instituto de Investigaciones Hist=F3ricas
>       Universidad Nacional Aut=F3noma de M=E9xico
>       Tel. (525) 622 7529 Fax. (525) 665 0070
>          e-mail miriam at servidor.unam.mx
>       Circuito Mario de la Cueva, Zona cultural
>      Ciudad Universitaria, M=E9xico D.F. CP 04510  =20
>-------------------------------------------------------
>


From fjgs at servidor.unam.mx  Wed Apr 21 21:40:50 1999
From: fjgs at servidor.unam.mx (Ehecatecolotl)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 15:40:50 -0600
Subject: Sound / video of Nahuatl
Message-ID: <WED.21.APR.1999.154050.0600.>

Perhaps a bit tardy on my posting but you might find it interesting. There's
a movie of recent release. The title in Spanish is La Otra Conquista. It was
produced by Placido Domingo and it has the most abundant nahuatl content in
any movie I have so far seen. I don't know about its availability abroad
Mexico and I don't want to go into the details of its ideological content.
Suffice to say people speak Nahuatl in it. If you have a chance, go see it.


Ehecatecolotl.


From robc at csufresno.edu  Thu Apr 22 01:23:36 1999
From: robc at csufresno.edu (Robert G. Comegys)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 19:23:36 -0600
Subject: Ciclo de Conferencias sobre Sahagún
Message-ID: <WED.21.APR.1999.192336.0600.>

--------------66CE68EE27EE625F216AAD5D
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Subject: Ciclo de Conferencias sobre Sahag�n

El Instituto de Investigaciones Hist�ricas=20
de la Universidad Nacional Aut�noma de M�xico
y el Museo Nacional de Antropolog�a
del Instituto Nacional de Antropolog�a e Historia
se complacen en invitarle al Ciclo de conferencias
BERNARDINO DE SAHAG�N Quinientos a�os de presencia

Martes 27 de abril
La Historia general de Sahag�n a la luz de las enciclopedias
de la tradici�n greco-romana, por Ascensi�n H. de Le�n-Portilla

Martes 4 de mayo
El pante�n prehisp�nico en la Historia general de Sahag�n
por Guilhem Olivier

Martes 11 de mayo
Los mitos en la obra de Sahag�n
Alfredo L�pez Austin

Martes l8 de mayo
La sociedad ind�gena en la Historia general,
por Federico Navarrete

Martes 25 de mayo
Los huehuehtlahtolli, testimonios de la antigua palabra,

recogidos por Sahag�n,
por Librado Silva Galeana

Martes 1 de junio
Bernardino de Sahag�n ling�ista.
por Pilar M=E1ynez

Martes 8de junio
Las plantas en la Historia general=20
por Javier Lozoya

Martes 15 de junio
Los animales en la obra de Sahag�n,
por Mercedes de la Garza

Martes 22 de junio
Enfermedades y medicina ind�gena en la obra de Sahag�n,
por Carlos Viesca

Martes 29 de junio
La Historia general: un encuentro de dos sistemas cognitivos,
por Patrick Johansson

Martes 6 de julio
Los l�mites del conocimiento y el aprecio del Otro,
por Luis Villoro

Martes 13 de julio
Intentos de nahuatlizaci�n del cristianismo en los Coloquios de Sahag�n,
por Francisco Morales Valerio

Martes 20 de julio
La Conquista de M�xico, seg�n los testimonios recogidos por Sahag�n,
por Georges Baudot

Las conferencias ser�n todos los martes,
de abril a julio, a las 19:00 horas, en

MUSEO NACIONAL DE ANTROPOLOG�A
Auditorio Jaime Torres Bodet
Reforma y Calzada Gandhi,
Chapultepec, Polanco

-------------------------------------------------------
               Lic. Miriam C. Izquierdo
>                 Secretaria T�cnica
>       Instituto de Investigaciones Hist�ricas
>       Universidad Nacional Aut�noma de M�xico
>       Tel. (525) 622 7529 Fax. (525) 665 0070
>          e-mail miriam at servidor.unam.mx
>       Circuito Mario de la Cueva, Zona cultural
>      Ciudad Universitaria, M�xico D.F. CP 04510  =20
>-------------------------------------------------------
>



--------------66CE68EE27EE625F216AAD5D
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML>

<PRE>Subject: Ciclo de Conferencias sobre Sahag&uacute;n

El Instituto de Investigaciones Hist&oacute;ricas=20
de la Universidad Nacional Aut&oacute;noma de M&eacute;xico
y el Museo Nacional de Antropolog&iacute;a
del Instituto Nacional de Antropolog&iacute;a e Historia
se complacen en invitarle al Ciclo de conferencias
BERNARDINO DE SAHAG&Uacute;N Quinientos a&ntilde;os de presencia</PRE>

<PRE>Martes 27 de abril
La Historia general de Sahag&uacute;n a la luz de las enciclopedias
de la tradici&oacute;n greco-romana, por Ascensi&oacute;n H. de Le&oacute;n-Portilla

Martes 4 de mayo
El pante&oacute;n prehisp&aacute;nico en la Historia general de Sahag&uacute;n
por Guilhem Olivier

Martes 11 de mayo
Los mitos en la obra de Sahag&uacute;n
Alfredo L&oacute;pez Austin

Martes l8 de mayo
La sociedad ind&iacute;gena en la Historia general,
por Federico Navarrete

Martes 25 de mayo
Los huehuehtlahtolli, testimonios de la antigua palabra,</PRE>

<PRE>recogidos por Sahag&uacute;n,
por Librado Silva Galeana

Martes 1 de junio
Bernardino de Sahag&uacute;n ling&uuml;ista.
por Pilar M=E1ynez

Martes 8de junio
Las plantas en la Historia general=20
por Javier Lozoya

Martes 15 de junio
Los animales en la obra de Sahag&uacute;n,
por Mercedes de la Garza

Martes 22 de junio
Enfermedades y medicina ind&iacute;gena en la obra de Sahag&uacute;n,
por Carlos Viesca

Martes 29 de junio
La Historia general: un encuentro de dos sistemas cognitivos,
por Patrick Johansson</PRE>

<PRE>Martes 6 de julio
Los l&iacute;mites del conocimiento y el aprecio del Otro,
por Luis Villoro

Martes 13 de julio
Intentos de nahuatlizaci&oacute;n del cristianismo en los Coloquios de Sahag&uacute;n,
por Francisco Morales Valerio

Martes 20 de julio
La Conquista de M&eacute;xico, seg&uacute;n los testimonios recogidos por Sahag&uacute;n,
por Georges Baudot

Las conferencias ser&aacute;n todos los martes,
de abril a julio, a las 19:00 horas, en

MUSEO NACIONAL DE ANTROPOLOG&Iacute;A
Auditorio Jaime Torres Bodet
Reforma y Calzada Gandhi,
Chapultepec, Polanco

-------------------------------------------------------
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Lic. Miriam C. Izquierdo
>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Secretaria T&eacute;cnica
>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Instituto de Investigaciones Hist&oacute;ricas
>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Universidad Nacional Aut&oacute;noma de M&eacute;xico
>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Tel. (525) 622 7529 Fax. (525) 665 0070
>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; e-mail miriam at servidor.unam.mx
>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Circuito Mario de la Cueva, Zona cultural
>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Ciudad Universitaria, M&eacute;xico D.F. CP 04510&nbsp; =20
>-------------------------------------------------------
>




</PRE>
&nbsp;</HTML>

--------------66CE68EE27EE625F216AAD5D--


From umwalk05 at cc.UManitoba.CA  Thu Apr 22 07:24:26 1999
From: umwalk05 at cc.UManitoba.CA (byron walker (vlad))
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 01:24:26 -0600
Subject: something i found in my wanderings
Message-ID: <THU.22.APR.1999.012426.0600.>

Presented here are three poems from the book called In Yancuic Nahua
Tlahtolli (Nuevos Relatos y Cantos en N�huatl) by Miguel de Le�n Portilla,
Alfredo Ram�rez, Francisco Morales and Librado Silva Galeana. UNAM, M�xico,
1989.

Each poem is followed by the Spanish translation provided by the book.



NONANTZIN


Nonantzin ihcuac nimiquiz,
motlecuilpan xinechtoca
huan cuac tiaz titlaxcal chihuaz,
ompa nopampa xichoca.


Huan tla acah mitztlah tlaniz:
-Zoapille, �tleca tichoca?
xiquilhui xoxouhqui in cuahuitl,
techochcti ica popoca.



MADRECITA MIA


Madrecita m�a, cuando yo muera,
sep�ltame junto al fog�n
y cuando vayas a hacer las tortillas
all� por m� llora.


Y si alguien te preguntara:
-Se�ora, �por qu� lloras?
dile que est� verde la le�a,
hace llorar con el humo.



NOTLAZOHTLA


Notlazohtla ichpoxochitl,
in citlalin titlachia
ihcuac quin ye tlanexti,
tepetzallan tlanexia


Ximocuiti, ica melahuac
ica melahuac nimitztlazohtla,
inhuac quin ye tlanexti,
tepetzallan tlanextia.



AMADA MIA


Amada m�a, flor doncella,
la estrella contemplas
cuando ya amanece
entre los cerros brilla.


Hazla tuya, porque en verdad,
en verdad, yo te amo,
cuando amanece
entre los cerros brilla



TLANECI


Ihcuac tlalixpan tlaneci,
in mtztli momiquilia,
citlalimeh ixmimiqueh
in ilhuicac moxotlaltia.


Ompa huehca itzintlan tepetl,
popocatoc hoxacaltzin,
ompa yetoc notlahzotzin,
noyolotzin, nocihuatzin.



AMANECE


Cuando sobre la tierra amanece
la luna muere,
las estrellas dejan de verse,
el cielo se ilumina.


All� lejos, al pie del cerro,
sale humo de mi caba�a,
all� est� mi amorcito,
mi coraz�n, mi mujercita.


From mexicapride at earthlink.net  Fri Apr 23 03:22:16 1999
From: mexicapride at earthlink.net (Tekpatltzin)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 21:22:16 -0600
Subject: Sound / video of Nahuatl
Message-ID: <THU.22.APR.1999.212216.0600.>

Tiahui,

If you would like to see a description of "The Other Conquest" (La Otra
Conquista) go to the web site: chicagolatinocinema.org and follow the link to
the 15th Annual Film Festival.
Here in Chicago the movie has received very favorable reviews and although I
have not personally seen it I can only offer the comments from a local movie
critic "Roger Ebert" who stated that the movie depicts the other conquest which
is the Spaniards goal of total domination of the Mexika spiritual world and
subsequent replacement with Spanish "Catholic Values". I contacted the film
distributors for inquiries about a possible video purchase. They have no
immediate plans for video or wide scale screen showing in the U.S.

Tlazohkamati,

Tekpatltzin


Ehecatecolotl wrote:

> Perhaps a bit tardy on my posting but you might find it interesting. There's
> a movie of recent release. The title in Spanish is La Otra Conquista. It was
> produced by Placido Domingo and it has the most abundant nahuatl content in
> any movie I have so far seen. I don't know about its availability abroad
> Mexico and I don't want to go into the details of its ideological content.
> Suffice to say people speak Nahuatl in it. If you have a chance, go see it.
>
> Ehecatecolotl.


From MiAbismo at aol.com  Sat Apr 24 00:06:46 1999
From: MiAbismo at aol.com (MiAbismo at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 18:06:46 -0600
Subject: La Otra Conquista
Message-ID: <FRI.23.APR.1999.180646.0600.>

	Dear Listeros:

	I got the opportunity to view La Otra Conquista last week at the
Noche Mexicana Gala hosted by the 15th Chicago Latino Film Festival.  Both
Producer Alvaro Domingo (Placido Domingo's son) and Writer and Director
Salvador Carrasco were present.  In their speeches they stated it took them 7
years to get this movie done and out in theatres in Mexico.  Since it is a
historical reenactment, motion picture labels didn't want to release it
fearing it would have a weak turnout at the box office.  They finally were
able to release the movie in Mexico last year and were given the estimate
that AT MOST 10,000 people would view it.  More than 1/2 a million people
have seen this movie thus far, and it has held the #1 spot in the box offices
in Mexico.
	As mentioned before, it has a high content of Nahuatl.  It has gotten
rave reviews which clearly do the film justice.  If anyone has the
opportunity to see it, do not pass it up.  For more information you can
contact the print source:

	Storm Entertainment
	225 Santa Monica Blvd.
	Santa Monica, CA 90401
	Tel. (310) 656-2500
	Fax (310) 656-2510
	E-mail:	storment95 at aol.com

	Anel Marchan
	University of Illinois at Chicago 	


>Tiahui,

>If you would like to see a description of "The Other Conquest" (La Otra
>Conquista) go to the web site: chicagolatinocinema.org and follow the link to
>the 15th Annual Film Festival.
>Here in Chicago the movie has received very favorable reviews and although I
>have not personally seen it I can only offer the comments from a local movie
>critic "Roger Ebert" who stated that the movie depicts the other conquest
which
>is the Spaniards goal of total domination of the Mexika spiritual world and
>subsequent replacement with Spanish "Catholic Values". I contacted the film
>distributors for inquiries about a possible video purchase. They have no
>immediate plans for video or wide scale screen showing in the U.S.

>Tlazohkamati,

>Tekpatltzin


> Ehecatecolotl wrote:

> Perhaps a bit tardy on my posting but you might find it interesting. There's
> a movie of recent release. The title in Spanish is La Otra Conquista. It was
> produced by Placido Domingo and it has the most abundant nahuatl content in
> any movie I have so far seen. I don't know about its availability abroad
> Mexico and I don't want to go into the details of its ideological content.
> Suffice to say people speak Nahuatl in it. If you have a chance, go see it.
>
> Ehecatecolotl.


From fabian at nuclecu.unam.mx  Mon Apr 26 18:52:08 1999
From: fabian at nuclecu.unam.mx (Fabian E. Pena Arellano)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 12:52:08 -0600
Subject: Question about the nahuatl word "in".
Message-ID: <MON.26.APR.1999.125208.0600.>

 	My name is Fabian Pena and I just suscribed to this discussion
 list.
 	I would like to learn to speak classical nahuatl, and as I wrote
 in the subject line, I have a question about the word "in", usually
 translated into spanish as the articles "la, el, los, las ..."
 	The most of the books I have begun to read to learn nahuatl
 translate, for example, "in cihua:tl" as "the woman", since the authors
 consider "in" as a simple article. On the other hand, since the names in
 nahuatl may be used as verbs also, shouldn't the phrase "in cihua:tl" be
 translated as "the one who is a woman (la que es mujer)"?
 	In Launey's Introduccion a la Lengua y la Literatura Nahuatl there
 is very brief explanation which doesn't clarify to me the the usage of
 "in". What is the exact nature of it?


 	Fabian Pena.


From Genaro.Bugarin at Dartmouth.EDU  Mon Apr 26 19:09:37 1999
From: Genaro.Bugarin at Dartmouth.EDU (Genaro Bugarin)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 13:09:37 -0600
Subject: Question about the nahuatl word "niquixotiz"
Message-ID: <MON.26.APR.1999.130937.0600.>

good day fellows,

really quick,
I would appreciate it if you can help me translate this word.

Niquixotiz

one second of your time, but it is really important to me.

thank you

Genaro B.


From a.perri at pronet.it  Mon Apr 26 19:36:06 1999
From: a.perri at pronet.it (Antonio Perri)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 13:36:06 -0600
Subject: R: Question about the nahuatl word "in".
Message-ID: <MON.26.APR.1999.133606.0600.>

Dear Fabian,
the word "in" in classical nahuatl is a determinative, and in general you
can translate it in english with an article. However, since in classical
nahuatl almost every word can be use as a predicate (as you can appreciate
if you think that it is possible to say, e.g., ni-ciuatl, "I (am) a woman"),
it follows that you can fin it use with a verb: in this sense, it is true
that "in ciuatl" could be translated as "the one (who is) a woman". In any
case, the use of "in" always gives a predicate an almost "nominal" value,
since it determines it as a whole denotatum rather than as a process:
consider, e.g. the difference between, say, (ca) in tlacatl tlatoani, "the
man is (bel to be) a king (lit. an orator)" and, in tlacatl, in tlatoani,
"the man, the one (who) is a king". In "Une grammaire omnipr�dicative",
Launey describes the "in" as a mark of "actancialisation", i.e. a word wich
tends to transform a predicate into an "argument" either verbal or nominal,
in a given sentence (cfr. pp. 59, where he explicitly says that "la
determination par in... a 'ailleurs pour effet 'empecher toute
interpretation predicative".
I apologize for my Eglish, which is perhaps even poorer than my classical
nahuatl. If you have any further question, please write an I'll try to
provide a suitable answer.

Antonio Perri
-----Messaggio originale-----
Da: Fabian E. Pena Arellano <fabian at nuclecu.unam.mx>
A: Multiple recipients of list <nahuat-l at server.umt.edu>
Data: luned� 26 aprile 1999 21.59
Oggetto: Question about the nahuatl word "in".


>
>
> My name is Fabian Pena and I just suscribed to this discussion
> list.
> I would like to learn to speak classical nahuatl, and as I wrote
> in the subject line, I have a question about the word "in", usually
> translated into spanish as the articles "la, el, los, las ..."
> The most of the books I have begun to read to learn nahuatl
> translate, for example, "in cihua:tl" as "the woman", since the authors
> consider "in" as a simple article. On the other hand, since the names in
> nahuatl may be used as verbs also, shouldn't the phrase "in cihua:tl" be
> translated as "the one who is a woman (la que es mujer)"?
> In Launey's Introduccion a la Lengua y la Literatura Nahuatl there
> is very brief explanation which doesn't clarify to me the the usage of
> "in". What is the exact nature of it?
>
>
> Fabian Pena.
>
>


From Ian.Robertson at asu.edu  Mon Apr 26 20:14:36 1999
From: Ian.Robertson at asu.edu (Ian.Robertson at asu.edu)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 14:14:36 -0600
Subject: Question about the nahuatl word "niquixotiz"
Message-ID: <MON.26.APR.1999.141436.0600.>

Genaro,

I think that niquixotiz (Niqui:xo:ti:z) means 'I will care for, look after
he/she/it'

Cheers, Ian

Ian G. Robertson
Department of Anthropology
Arizona State University
Tempe, AZ 85287-2402
Ian.Robertson at asu.edu


From Genaro.Bugarin at Dartmouth.EDU  Tue Apr 27 02:15:20 1999
From: Genaro.Bugarin at Dartmouth.EDU (Genaro Bugarin)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 20:15:20 -0600
Subject: Question about the nahuatl word "niquixotiz"
Message-ID: <MON.26.APR.1999.201520.0600.>

--- You wrote:
Genaro,

I think that niquixotiz (Niqui:xo:ti:z) means 'I will care for, =
look after
he/she/it'

Cheers, Ian

Ian G. Robertson
Department of Anthropology
Arizona State University
Tempe, AZ 85287-2402
Ian.Robertson at asu.edu
--- end of quote ---
Ian,
	I thank you for your resoponse and time in answering my email, =
that minute of your time saved lots of time and energy on my part.

If I can be of any assistance to you at any time, do not hesitate.

Genaro Bugarin
Dartmouth College
4858 Hinman
Hanover, NH 03755
genaro.bugarin at dartmouth.edu


From daphni at voicenet.com  Tue Apr 27 21:09:36 1999
From: daphni at voicenet.com (Wanda Schwandt)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 15:09:36 -0600
Subject: museum
Message-ID: <TUE.27.APR.1999.150936.0600.>

Everyone,

First, thanks for the Nahautl names, they are a help!

Another question for the children's book I am writing:
I am trying to get ahold of a floor plan for the National Anthropology
Museum. I visited there in 1975 but no doubt it has changed! Any
information on the museum including the floor plan would be helpful! I
don't want my information to be wrong.

I tried to get on their web page, but unfortunately I do not speak
Spanish. I wish I learned when I had the chance.

If any one can help me, e-mail me privately and I'll give you my
address or send a SASE.

Thank you! Thank you!

Best regards,
 Wanda                            mailto:daphni at voicenet.com


From fabian at nuclecu.unam.mx  Wed Apr 28 19:50:00 1999
From: fabian at nuclecu.unam.mx (Fabian E. Pena Arellano)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 13:50:00 -0600
Subject: Question about the length of the vowels in nahuatl.
Message-ID: <WED.28.APR.1999.135000.0600.>

	As probably every beginner in the learning of the nahuatl
language, I am surprised and confused for the variety of different
ortografical systems there are to write the nahuatl.
	This time I am particularly interested about the wrinting of the
long vowels. Angerl Mria Garibay, in his "Lave del Nahuatl", never
indicates the length of the vowels. On the other hand, Michel Luney, in
his "Introduccion a la Lengua y a la Literatura Nahuatl" always does. Why
does this difference exists?
	As far as I understand, we may clasificate the languages as
quantitative and non-qunatitative (Gili Gaya, "Fonetica General", p.47).
The first are the ones in which the difference in the length of a vowel
in a word may produce a semantic opposition, that is, depending of the
length of a vowel a word may have different meanings. The latter are the
ones in which it does not matter how long the vowels are, there will not
be confusion about the meaning of a word. In such languages the length of
a vowel depends on the accent, and the nature and number of sounds which
compose the syllabe; the length is completely determined by fonetical
factors rather to the semantics of the word.
	According to Launey, there are not many pairs in nahuatl which may
cause confusion; he names such couples as minimun pairs ("Introduccion a
la Luengua y la la ....", p344, 1a. ed., UNAM). If such minimum pairs are
so few, what is the need to express them explicity in the wrinting?
	I thenk you for your answer before hand.

	Fabian Pena.


From mmccaffe at indiana.edu  Thu Apr 29 12:30:42 1999
From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael Mccafferty)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 06:30:42 -0600
Subject: Question about the length of the vowels in nahuatl.
Message-ID: <THU.29.APR.1999.063042.0600.>

Mr. Pena-Arellano,

Here's the thing.

Vowel length *is* contrastive in Nahuatl as is it is in other native
American languages.  In Unami, for example, there are even long
*consonants*.

However, since long vowels were not contrastive in the languages of the
Europeans who first recorded all these languages, they rarely received any
special notation.  Miami-Illinois, a Central Algonquian language, has
*highly* contrastive short and long vowels, and yet the early Jesuits who
recorded this language *never* heard it, although one cannot doubt that
comical events occurred in their efforts to use the language.

I learned Classical Nahuatl without paying attention to vowel length,
except for those few well-known words like /toka/ and /to:ka/, things like
that.  It seems that the trend in Nahuatl studies is to take the vowel
lengths in the entire corpus of the language more seriously.


Best regards,

Michael McCafferty



==========================================================

"Across the Rio Grande-o
 across the lazy river..."


                    -Robert Hunter


Michael McCafferty
C.E.L.T.
307 Memorial Hall
Indiana University
Bloomington, Indiana
47405
mmccaffe at indiana.edu


From robc at csufresno.edu  Thu Apr 29 15:04:56 1999
From: robc at csufresno.edu (Robert G. Comegys)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 09:04:56 -0600
Subject: Nahuatl Experts/Expertos en Nahuátl
Message-ID: <THU.29.APR.1999.090456.0600.>

Dear Nahuat-l Group,

My brother and I have identified as Nahuatl an otherwise European
looking document and
would like to have our translation of the very odd spelling and
paleography checked by
an expert with sterling academic credentials. Who are the very best
experts in nahuatl? And how
can they be contacted? Thank you for your assistance with this. John
Comegys

Estimado grupo de nahuateros,

Mi hermano y yo lo hemos identificado como nahuatl un documento que de
otra parte parece
de Europa y quisi�ramos haber nuestro trasducci�n de la ortograf�a muy
raro y paliograf�a
rech�quiado por un experto en nahu�tal con cartas credenciales
acad�micas alt�simas. �Quienes
son los m�s mejor expertos en nahuatl? �Y como podemos les contactar?
Gracias para su asistencia.
John Comegys


From a.perri at pronet.it  Thu Apr 29 21:01:51 1999
From: a.perri at pronet.it (Antonio Perri)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 15:01:51 -0600
Subject: Aztec writing - Program of the second day of "XXI Convegno
 Internazionale di Americanistica": "Codice,
 glifo e interpretazione: la scrittura mesoamericana"
Message-ID: <THU.29.APR.1999.150151.0600.>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_002C_01BE9294.6B1B02E0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

CENTRO STUDI AMERICANISTICI
"Circolo Amerindiano"





XXI CONVEGNO INTERNAZIONALE DI AMERICANISTICA

7-9 maggio 1999

Perugia

SALA DEL CONSIGLIO, PALAZZO DELLA PROVINCIA

Piazza Italia



in collaborazione con
Sezione antropologica del Dipartimento Uomo e Territorio, Universit=E0 =
degli Studi di Perugia-Azienda di Promozione Turistica di Perugia

e con il patrocinio di:
Ambasciata del Messico in Italia, Istituto Italo-Latinoamericano, Comune =
di
Perugia, Provincia di Perugia, Regione dell'Umbria






sabato, 8 maggio 1999

Presiede: Tullio Seppilli


Sessione monografica

"Codice, glifo e interpretazione: la scrittura mesoamericana"

Saluto dell'Ambasciatore del Messico Mario Moya Palencia

La Semiotica e la scrittura mesoamericana.

Paolo Fabbri (Universit=E0 di Bologna) : Trasposizioni

L'impatto delle scritture glifiche nell'immaginario europeo

Anne Marie Wohrer (C.I.F.E.I.T., Paris), Encuentro de los Espanoles con =
las escrituras indigenas del M=E9xico central en el siglo XVI

Roberto Pellerey (Universit=E0 di Genova), Glifi e lingue perfette nella
cultura europea del Cinque e Seicento: la tradizione ideogrammatica e la =
nozione di carattere

*  Il metodo e la semiotica

Joaquin Galarza (CNRS, Paris / Benemerita Universidad Autonoma de =
Puebla), La parola fiorita

Antonio Perri (Universit=E0 di Bologna), Verso un modello semiotico per =
lo studio della scrittura azteca

Alfredo Cid Jurado (Universit=E0 di Bologna), La unidad minima en las
escrituras mesoamericanas y la construccion de paradigmas  como linea de =
interpretacion


Sabato 8 maggio ore 15.00


Presiede:

Alfredo Cid Jurado


* I codici come fonti di studio

Claudio Esteva Fabregat (Universidad de Barcelona), Los Codices
prehispanicos como textos etnograficos

* Studi applicativi

Emily Umberger (Arizona State University), Reading hieroglyphs on aztec =
monuments

Martine Simonin (C.N.R.S., Paris), Lienzo mixteco III y Mapa n. 36:
analogias y diferencias

Hilda Aguirre Beltran (C.I.E.S.A.S., M=3DE9xico), Parametros plasticos =
para el seguimiento de lectura del Lienzo de Cuauquecholac

Luz Maria Mohar (C.I.E.S.A.S, M=E9xico) El Mapa Quinatzin, un ejemplo de =
Diccionario de glifos y elementos del Proyecto Machiyotl

Jean-Fran=E7ois Genotte (Universi=E9 Paris I - Panth=E9on Sorbonne), Il =
contenuto religioso pittografico della Mapa de Otumba, manoscritto =
indigeno del XVI secolo

* Ricerche in corso

Jorgen Stowasser - Hoedl (Universit=E0 di Vienna),  L'informatica e lo =
studio delle scritture mesoamericane.

Laura Laurencich Minelli (Universit=E0 di Bologna), Descrizione =
autoptica e osservazioni al microscopio e alla lampada di Wood  del =
codice Cospi.

Maria Martinelli - Laura Laurencich Minelli (Universit=E0 di Bologna), =
La
cosmologia azteca attraverso le carte 17 e 18 del Codice VaticanoB

Alessia Frassani - Laura Laurencich Minelli (Universit=E0 di Bologna):
Elementi di comunicazione e applicazione dell'etnologia alla lettura del =
Codice Vaticano B







Coordinamento generale: Laura Lepore
Responsabili della segreteria: Carlotta Bagaglia, Thea Rossi

Informazioni:
Centro Studi Americanistici "Circolo Amerindiano"
tel. segr. e fax. (++) 39- 075 5720716

e-mail: laural at unipg.it

Laura Lepore
via Cantamerlo, 11
0610O PERUGIA

tel e fax:   (++39) - 075- 5735669


Istituto di etnologia e antropologia culturale
Universit=E0 degli Studi
via dell'Aquilone, 7
06100 PERUGIA - ITALIA
tel: (++39) - 075- 5853830
fax: (++) - 075 - 5853831
e-mail: ieacusp at unipg.it



------=_NextPart_000_002C_01BE9294.6B1B02E0
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 =
HTML//EN"><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.71.1712.3"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>CENTRO STUDI AMERICANISTICI<BR>&quot;Circolo=20
Amerindiano&quot;<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>XXI CONVEGNO INTERNAZIONALE DI=20
AMERICANISTICA<BR><BR>7-9 maggio 1999<BR><BR>Perugia<BR><BR>SALA DEL =
CONSIGLIO,=20
PALAZZO DELLA PROVINCIA<BR><BR>Piazza Italia<BR><BR><BR><BR>in =
collaborazione=20
con<BR>Sezione antropologica del Dipartimento Uomo e Territorio,=20
Universit&agrave; degli Studi di Perugia-Azienda di Promozione Turistica =
di=20
Perugia<BR><BR>e con il patrocinio di:<BR>Ambasciata del Messico in =
Italia,=20
Istituto Italo-Latinoamericano, Comune di<BR>Perugia, Provincia di =
Perugia,=20
Regione dell'Umbria<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>sabato, 8 maggio=20
1999<BR><BR>Presiede: Tullio Seppilli<BR><BR><BR>Sessione=20
monografica<BR><BR>&quot;Codice, glifo e interpretazione: la scrittura=20
mesoamericana&quot;<BR><BR>Saluto dell'Ambasciatore del Messico Mario =
Moya=20
Palencia<BR><BR>La Semiotica e la scrittura mesoamericana.<BR><BR>Paolo =
Fabbri=20
(Universit&agrave; di Bologna) : Trasposizioni<BR><BR>L'impatto delle =
scritture=20
glifiche nell'immaginario europeo<BR><BR>Anne Marie Wohrer =
(C.I.F.E.I.T.,=20
Paris), Encuentro de los Espanoles con las escrituras indigenas del=20
M&eacute;xico central en el siglo XVI<BR><BR>Roberto Pellerey =
(Universit&agrave;=20
di Genova), Glifi e lingue perfette nella<BR>cultura europea del Cinque =
e=20
Seicento: la tradizione ideogrammatica e la nozione di =
carattere<BR><BR>*&nbsp;=20
Il metodo e la semiotica<BR><BR>Joaquin Galarza (CNRS, Paris / =
Benemerita=20
Universidad Autonoma de Puebla), La parola fiorita<BR><BR>Antonio Perri=20
(Universit&agrave; di Bologna), Verso un modello semiotico per lo studio =
della=20
scrittura azteca<BR><BR>Alfredo Cid Jurado (Universit&agrave; di =
Bologna), La=20
unidad minima en las<BR>escrituras mesoamericanas y la construccion de=20
paradigmas&nbsp; como linea de interpretacion<BR><BR><BR>Sabato 8 maggio =
ore=20
15.00<BR><BR><BR>Presiede:<BR><BR>Alfredo Cid Jurado<BR><BR><BR>* I =
codici come=20
fonti di studio<BR><BR>Claudio Esteva Fabregat (Universidad de =
Barcelona), Los=20
Codices<BR>prehispanicos como textos etnograficos<BR><BR>* Studi=20
applicativi<BR><BR>Emily Umberger (Arizona State University), Reading=20
hieroglyphs on aztec monuments<BR><BR>Martine Simonin (C.N.R.S., Paris), =
Lienzo=20
mixteco III y Mapa n. 36:<BR>analogias y diferencias<BR><BR>Hilda =
Aguirre=20
Beltran (C.I.E.S.A.S., M=3DE9xico), Parametros plasticos para el =
seguimiento de=20
lectura del Lienzo de Cuauquecholac<BR><BR>Luz Maria Mohar (C.I.E.S.A.S, =

M&eacute;xico) El Mapa Quinatzin, un ejemplo de Diccionario de glifos y=20
elementos del Proyecto Machiyotl<BR><BR>Jean-Fran&ccedil;ois Genotte=20
(Universi&eacute; Paris I - Panth&eacute;on Sorbonne), Il contenuto =
religioso=20
pittografico della Mapa de Otumba, manoscritto indigeno del XVI =
secolo<BR><BR>*=20
Ricerche in corso<BR><BR>Jorgen Stowasser - Hoedl (Universit&agrave; di=20
Vienna),&nbsp; L'informatica e lo studio delle scritture=20
mesoamericane.<BR><BR>Laura Laurencich Minelli (Universit&agrave; di =
Bologna),=20
Descrizione autoptica e osservazioni al microscopio e alla lampada di =
Wood&nbsp;=20
del codice Cospi.<BR><BR>Maria Martinelli - Laura Laurencich Minelli=20
(Universit&agrave; di Bologna), La<BR>cosmologia azteca attraverso le =
carte 17 e=20
18 del Codice VaticanoB<BR><BR>Alessia Frassani - Laura Laurencich =
Minelli=20
(Universit&agrave; di Bologna):<BR>Elementi di comunicazione e =
applicazione=20
dell'etnologia alla lettura del Codice Vaticano=20
B<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>Coordinamento generale: Laura=20
Lepore<BR>Responsabili della segreteria: Carlotta Bagaglia, Thea=20
Rossi<BR><BR>Informazioni:<BR>Centro Studi Americanistici &quot;Circolo=20
Amerindiano&quot;<BR>tel. segr. e fax. (++) 39- 075 =
5720716<BR><BR>e-mail: <A=20
href=3D"mailto:laural at unipg.it">laural at unipg.it</A><BR><BR>Laura =
Lepore<BR>via=20
Cantamerlo, 11<BR>0610O PERUGIA<BR><BR>tel e fax:&nbsp;&nbsp; (++39) - =
075-=20
5735669<BR><BR><BR>Istituto di etnologia e antropologia=20
culturale<BR>Universit&agrave; degli Studi<BR>via dell'Aquilone, =
7<BR>06100=20
PERUGIA - ITALIA<BR>tel: (++39) - 075- 5853830<BR>fax: (++) - 075 -=20
5853831<BR>e-mail: <A=20
href=3D"mailto:ieacusp at unipg.it">ieacusp at unipg.it</A><BR><BR></DIV></BODY=
></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_002C_01BE9294.6B1B02E0--


From a.perri at pronet.it  Thu Apr 29 21:05:36 1999
From: a.perri at pronet.it (Antonio Perri)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 15:05:36 -0600
Subject: Aztec writing - Program of the second day of "XXI Convegno
 Internazionale di Americanistica": "Codice,
 glifo e interpretazione: la scrittura mesoamericana"
Message-ID: <THU.29.APR.1999.150536.0600.>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0037_01BE9294.B236BF20
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

CENTRO STUDI AMERICANISTICI
"Circolo Amerindiano"





XXI CONVEGNO INTERNAZIONALE DI AMERICANISTICA

7-9 maggio 1999

Perugia

SALA DEL CONSIGLIO, PALAZZO DELLA PROVINCIA

Piazza Italia



in collaborazione con
Sezione antropologica del Dipartimento Uomo e Territorio, Universit=E0 =
degli Studi di Perugia-Azienda di Promozione Turistica di Perugia

e con il patrocinio di:
Ambasciata del Messico in Italia, Istituto Italo-Latinoamericano, Comune =
di
Perugia, Provincia di Perugia, Regione dell'Umbria






sabato, 8 maggio 1999

Presiede: Tullio Seppilli


Sessione monografica

"Codice, glifo e interpretazione: la scrittura mesoamericana"

Saluto dell'Ambasciatore del Messico Mario Moya Palencia

La Semiotica e la scrittura mesoamericana.

Paolo Fabbri (Universit=E0 di Bologna) : Trasposizioni

L'impatto delle scritture glifiche nell'immaginario europeo

Anne Marie Wohrer (C.I.F.E.I.T., Paris), Encuentro de los Espanoles con =
las escrituras indigenas del M=E9xico central en el siglo XVI

Roberto Pellerey (Universit=E0 di Genova), Glifi e lingue perfette nella
cultura europea del Cinque e Seicento: la tradizione ideogrammatica e la =
nozione di carattere

*  Il metodo e la semiotica

Joaquin Galarza (CNRS, Paris / Benemerita Universidad Autonoma de =
Puebla), La parola fiorita

Antonio Perri (Universit=E0 di Bologna), Verso un modello semiotico per =
lo studio della scrittura azteca

Alfredo Cid Jurado (Universit=E0 di Bologna), La unidad minima en las
escrituras mesoamericanas y la construccion de paradigmas  como linea de =
interpretacion


Sabato 8 maggio ore 15.00


Presiede:

Alfredo Cid Jurado


* I codici come fonti di studio

Claudio Esteva Fabregat (Universidad de Barcelona), Los Codices
prehispanicos como textos etnograficos

* Studi applicativi

Emily Umberger (Arizona State University), Reading hieroglyphs on aztec =
monuments

Martine Simonin (C.N.R.S., Paris), Lienzo mixteco III y Mapa n. 36:
analogias y diferencias

Hilda Aguirre Beltran (C.I.E.S.A.S., M=3DE9xico), Parametros plasticos =
para el seguimiento de lectura del Lienzo de Cuauquecholac

Luz Maria Mohar (C.I.E.S.A.S, M=E9xico) El Mapa Quinatzin, un ejemplo de =
Diccionario de glifos y elementos del Proyecto Machiyotl

Jean-Fran=E7ois Genotte (Universi=E9 Paris I - Panth=E9on Sorbonne), Il =
contenuto religioso pittografico della Mapa de Otumba, manoscritto =
indigeno del XVI secolo

* Ricerche in corso

Jorgen Stowasser - Hoedl (Universit=E0 di Vienna),  L'informatica e lo =
studio delle scritture mesoamericane.

Laura Laurencich Minelli (Universit=E0 di Bologna), Descrizione =
autoptica e osservazioni al microscopio e alla lampada di Wood  del =
codice Cospi.

Maria Martinelli - Laura Laurencich Minelli (Universit=E0 di Bologna), =
La
cosmologia azteca attraverso le carte 17 e 18 del Codice VaticanoB

Alessia Frassani - Laura Laurencich Minelli (Universit=E0 di Bologna):
Elementi di comunicazione e applicazione dell'etnologia alla lettura del =
Codice Vaticano B







Coordinamento generale: Laura Lepore
Responsabili della segreteria: Carlotta Bagaglia, Thea Rossi

Informazioni:
Centro Studi Americanistici "Circolo Amerindiano"
tel. segr. e fax. (++) 39- 075 5720716

e-mail: laural at unipg.it

Laura Lepore
via Cantamerlo, 11
0610O PERUGIA

tel e fax:   (++39) - 075- 5735669


Istituto di etnologia e antropologia culturale
Universit=E0 degli Studi
via dell'Aquilone, 7
06100 PERUGIA - ITALIA
tel: (++39) - 075- 5853830
fax: (++) - 075 - 5853831
e-mail: ieacusp at unipg.it



------=_NextPart_000_0037_01BE9294.B236BF20
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 =
HTML//EN"><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN"><!DOCTYPE HTML =
PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.71.1712.3"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>CENTRO STUDI AMERICANISTICI<BR>&quot;Circolo=20
Amerindiano&quot;<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>XXI CONVEGNO INTERNAZIONALE DI=20
AMERICANISTICA<BR><BR>7-9 maggio 1999<BR><BR>Perugia<BR><BR>SALA DEL =
CONSIGLIO,=20
PALAZZO DELLA PROVINCIA<BR><BR>Piazza Italia<BR><BR><BR><BR>in =
collaborazione=20
con<BR>Sezione antropologica del Dipartimento Uomo e Territorio,=20
Universit&agrave; degli Studi di Perugia-Azienda di Promozione Turistica =
di=20
Perugia<BR><BR>e con il patrocinio di:<BR>Ambasciata del Messico in =
Italia,=20
Istituto Italo-Latinoamericano, Comune di<BR>Perugia, Provincia di =
Perugia,=20
Regione dell'Umbria<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>sabato, 8 maggio=20
1999<BR><BR>Presiede: Tullio Seppilli<BR><BR><BR>Sessione=20
monografica<BR><BR>&quot;Codice, glifo e interpretazione: la scrittura=20
mesoamericana&quot;<BR><BR>Saluto dell'Ambasciatore del Messico Mario =
Moya=20
Palencia<BR><BR>La Semiotica e la scrittura mesoamericana.<BR><BR>Paolo =
Fabbri=20
(Universit&agrave; di Bologna) : Trasposizioni<BR><BR>L'impatto delle =
scritture=20
glifiche nell'immaginario europeo<BR><BR>Anne Marie Wohrer =
(C.I.F.E.I.T.,=20
Paris), Encuentro de los Espanoles con las escrituras indigenas del=20
M&eacute;xico central en el siglo XVI<BR><BR>Roberto Pellerey =
(Universit&agrave;=20
di Genova), Glifi e lingue perfette nella<BR>cultura europea del Cinque =
e=20
Seicento: la tradizione ideogrammatica e la nozione di =
carattere<BR><BR>*&nbsp;=20
Il metodo e la semiotica<BR><BR>Joaquin Galarza (CNRS, Paris / =
Benemerita=20
Universidad Autonoma de Puebla), La parola fiorita<BR><BR>Antonio Perri=20
(Universit&agrave; di Bologna), Verso un modello semiotico per lo studio =
della=20
scrittura azteca<BR><BR>Alfredo Cid Jurado (Universit&agrave; di =
Bologna), La=20
unidad minima en las<BR>escrituras mesoamericanas y la construccion de=20
paradigmas&nbsp; como linea de interpretacion<BR><BR><BR>Sabato 8 maggio =
ore=20
15.00<BR><BR><BR>Presiede:<BR><BR>Alfredo Cid Jurado<BR><BR><BR>* I =
codici come=20
fonti di studio<BR><BR>Claudio Esteva Fabregat (Universidad de =
Barcelona), Los=20
Codices<BR>prehispanicos como textos etnograficos<BR><BR>* Studi=20
applicativi<BR><BR>Emily Umberger (Arizona State University), Reading=20
hieroglyphs on aztec monuments<BR><BR>Martine Simonin (C.N.R.S., Paris), =
Lienzo=20
mixteco III y Mapa n. 36:<BR>analogias y diferencias<BR><BR>Hilda =
Aguirre=20
Beltran (C.I.E.S.A.S., M=3DE9xico), Parametros plasticos para el =
seguimiento de=20
lectura del Lienzo de Cuauquecholac<BR><BR>Luz Maria Mohar (C.I.E.S.A.S, =

M&eacute;xico) El Mapa Quinatzin, un ejemplo de Diccionario de glifos y=20
elementos del Proyecto Machiyotl<BR><BR>Jean-Fran&ccedil;ois Genotte=20
(Universi&eacute; Paris I - Panth&eacute;on Sorbonne), Il contenuto =
religioso=20
pittografico della Mapa de Otumba, manoscritto indigeno del XVI =
secolo<BR><BR>*=20
Ricerche in corso<BR><BR>Jorgen Stowasser - Hoedl (Universit&agrave; di=20
Vienna),&nbsp; L'informatica e lo studio delle scritture=20
mesoamericane.<BR><BR>Laura Laurencich Minelli (Universit&agrave; di =
Bologna),=20
Descrizione autoptica e osservazioni al microscopio e alla lampada di =
Wood&nbsp;=20
del codice Cospi.<BR><BR>Maria Martinelli - Laura Laurencich Minelli=20
(Universit&agrave; di Bologna), La<BR>cosmologia azteca attraverso le =
carte 17 e=20
18 del Codice VaticanoB<BR><BR>Alessia Frassani - Laura Laurencich =
Minelli=20
(Universit&agrave; di Bologna):<BR>Elementi di comunicazione e =
applicazione=20
dell'etnologia alla lettura del Codice Vaticano=20
B<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>Coordinamento generale: Laura=20
Lepore<BR>Responsabili della segreteria: Carlotta Bagaglia, Thea=20
Rossi<BR><BR>Informazioni:<BR>Centro Studi Americanistici &quot;Circolo=20
Amerindiano&quot;<BR>tel. segr. e fax. (++) 39- 075 =
5720716<BR><BR>e-mail: <A=20
href=3D"mailto:laural at unipg.it">laural at unipg.it</A><BR><BR>Laura =
Lepore<BR>via=20
Cantamerlo, 11<BR>0610O PERUGIA<BR><BR>tel e fax:&nbsp;&nbsp; (++39) - =
075-=20
5735669<BR><BR><BR>Istituto di etnologia e antropologia=20
culturale<BR>Universit&agrave; degli Studi<BR>via dell'Aquilone, =
7<BR>06100=20
PERUGIA - ITALIA<BR>tel: (++39) - 075- 5853830<BR>fax: (++) - 075 -=20
5853831<BR>e-mail: <A=20
href=3D"mailto:ieacusp at unipg.it">ieacusp at unipg.it</A><BR><BR></DIV></BODY=
></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0037_01BE9294.B236BF20--


From milinski at cybertours.com  Sat Apr  3 04:45:12 1999
From: milinski at cybertours.com (Michael Milinski)
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 21:45:12 -0700
Subject: language endangerment
Message-ID: <FRI.2.APR.1999.214512.0700.>

Hello,
    I am a senior English major at the University of Southern Maine and
am currently enrolled in my senoir seminar course which is focusing on
endangered and marginalized languages. I am focusing my study on
endangered languages of Central and South America. I would greatly
appreciate any information regarding your political and social opinions
about the status of the Nahuatl language or any other marginalized
languages in Central or South America.
Thank you,
Michael Milinski
University of Southern Maine
milinski at cybertours.com


From odesign at sprynet.com  Mon Apr  5 00:51:55 1999
From: odesign at sprynet.com (Art Ludwig)
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 18:51:55 -0600
Subject: Pomaro dialect
Message-ID: <SUN.4.APR.1999.185155.0600.>

John F. Schwaller wrote:
>
> Over the last two weeks the list had a great discussion of the Pomero
> dialect...



Yes, thanks for the rich responses to my query.  I stand humbled (hey-I
never could spell) and enlightened, and have gained ten years worth of
good direction for my project. I'll do my best to turn it into something
good in however many weeks I end up having to apply to it!

Thanks,

Art

-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-
Art Ludwig
Oasis Design
Ecological Design publishing & consulting
5 San Marcos Trout Club, Santa Barbara, CA 93105-9726, Fax: 805 967-3229
Phone: 967-9956
<http://odesign.home.sprynet.com>        <odesign at sprynet.com>

I'm back in the office for at least a few months & will be checking e
mail every other day.
-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-


From klostina at acci.gr  Mon Apr  5 11:42:30 1999
From: klostina at acci.gr (sardi)
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 05:42:30 -0600
Subject: Fw: I would like your help to learn Nahuatl.
Message-ID: <MON.5.APR.1999.054230.0600.>

> To whom it may interest:
>
> I am a 15year-old Greek student,who is regularly in the Internet.My
> interest in Aztec and general Meso-American tribes began after reading an
> old issue of National Geographic.Since then I have been trying to collect
> all the information I can about Aztecs and their culture.When I found
this
> address,I thought it would be a good opportunity to collect the
information
> that I wanted but also to find someone to teach me the Nahuatl language.
> If anyone is interested in teaching me,please contact me at this e-mail
> address: klostina at acci.gr
> Thank you in advance.
> Eleni Sardi


From schwallr at selway.umt.edu  Mon Apr  5 14:06:48 1999
From: schwallr at selway.umt.edu (John F. Schwaller)
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 08:06:48 -0600
Subject: Diplomado en Estudios de Cultura Nahuatl
Message-ID: <MON.5.APR.1999.080648.0600.>

El Seminario de Lengua y Cultura Nahuatl del Centro de Estudios
Antropologicos de la Universidad de Colima y el Instituto de
Investigaciones Historicas UNAM, anuncian el proximo inicio del=20

DIPLOMADO EN ESTUDIOS DE CULTURA NAHUATL=20
"V Centenario del nacimiento de Fray Bernardino de Sahag=FAn, 1499-1999"=20

Programa=20

mayo 24/25 "Introducci=F3n al estudio de la cultura nahuatl prehispanica",
Arqlg. Eduardo Matos Moctezuma=20

junio 14/15 "El Codice Boturini y el Codice Borgia",  Dr. Patrick Johansson
K.=20

julio 5/6 "Fray Bernardino de Sahagun y el Codice Florentino",  Mtra.
Ascencion Hernandez de Leon-Portilla=20

julio 26/27 "Estetica y arte nahuatl prehispanico",  Dra. Silvia Trejo=20

agosto 16/17 "El mundo nahuatl frente a la conquista",  Dr. Georges Baudot=
=20

sept. 6/7 "Los dioses mexicas",  Dr. Guilheim Olivier=20

sept. 27/28 "El Codice Matritense",  Mtra. Pilar Maynez=20

oct. 18/19 "La muerte en el mundo nahuatl prehispanico I",  Dr. Patrick
Johansson K.=20

nov. 8/9 "La muerte en el mundo nahuatl prehispanico II",  Dr. Patrick
Johansson K.=20

nov. 29/30 "Sobrevivencias del mundo nahuatl",  Mtro. Librado Silva Galeana=
=20

El diplomado se llevara a efecto en las fechas indicadas, en las
instalaciones de la Pinacoteca Universitaria, Colima, Col. Los interesados
en recibir mayor informacion pueden comunicarse con Juan Carlos Reyes G.,
<jcreyes at volcan.ucol.mx>=20
John Frederick Schwaller                             schwallr at selway.umt.edu
Associate Provost                                        406-243-4722
The University of Montana                           FAX 406-243-5937
                          http://www.umt.edu/history/NAHUATL/


From schwallr at selway.umt.edu  Mon Apr 12 15:36:44 1999
From: schwallr at selway.umt.edu (John F. Schwaller)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:36:44 -0600
Subject: Lord's Prayer in Nahuatl
Message-ID: <MON.12.APR.1999.093644.0600.>

I just received a request for the Lord's Prayer in Nahuatl.  The version
here comes from Bartolome de Alva Confessionario mayor y menor, soon to be
published in a bi-lingual edition, translated and edited by Barry Sell, and
myself, with introductory essays by us, and Lu An Homza.  It will come out
from U of Oklahoma Press in June, I am told.

El Pater noster.

TOtatzine in ilhuicac timoetztica, ma =E7enca yectenehuallo in motocatzin, m=
a
hualauh in motlatocayotzin ma chihuallo in motlanequillitzin in yuh
chihuallo in ilhuicac in tlalticpac, auh ma xitechmomaquilli in axcan in
totlaxcal momoztlaye totech monequiz, auh ma xitechmopopolhuillilli in
totlatlacol, in yuh tiquinpopolhuia in techtlatlacalhuia, auh macamo
xitechmocahuilli inic ipan tihuetzizque in tene[y]ecoltiliztli.  Ma in
mochihua.


John Frederick Schwaller                             schwallr at selway.umt.edu
Associate Provost                                        406-243-4722
The University of Montana                           FAX 406-243-5937
                          http://www.umt.edu/history/NAHUATL/


From schwallr at selway.umt.edu  Mon Apr 12 16:02:11 1999
From: schwallr at selway.umt.edu (John F. Schwaller)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 10:02:11 -0600
Subject: System down
Message-ID: <MON.12.APR.1999.100211.0600.>

Dear subscribers

For reasons which are as yet unclear to me, all of the listservs at the
University of Montana were out of commission starting last Wednesday until
sometime this past weekend.  Things now seem to be up and running.  If for
some reason you attempted to post a message or unsubscribe and received an
error message, you may now resend your message/request.

Sorry for any inconvenience.

J. F. Schwaller, List owner


John Frederick Schwaller                             schwallr at selway.umt.edu
Associate Provost                                        406-243-4722
The University of Montana                           FAX 406-243-5937
                          http://www.umt.edu/history/NAHUATL/


From xochiquetzal at earthlink.net  Mon Apr 12 17:30:54 1999
From: xochiquetzal at earthlink.net (Odilia Rodriguez)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 11:30:54 -0600
Subject: Lord's Prayer in Nahuatl
Message-ID: <MON.12.APR.1999.113054.0600.>

John F. Schwaller wrote:
>
> I just received a request for the Lord's Prayer in Nahuatl.  The version
> here comes from Bartolome de Alva Confessionario mayor y menor, soon to be
> published in a bi-lingual edition, translated and edited by Barry Sell, and
> myself, with introductory essays by us, and Lu An Homza.  It will come out
> from U of Oklahoma Press in June, I am told.
>
(cut)

I want to thank you so much for this post and ask that if you have any
other prayers translated or directly Nahuatl I am very interested in
them.  I know many people who would love to learn them and use them in
their daily spiritual practices.

I also sent an e-mail which I never saw which asked for information on
books related to the Mexica Pantheon.  I am doing research on Aztec gods
and goddesses for a comparison to gods/goddesses in another nature based
religion.

any help is most appreciated and again thanx for this prayer.

sinceremente,

Odilia


From Rcrapo at wpo.hass.usu.edu  Mon Apr 12 19:03:22 1999
From: Rcrapo at wpo.hass.usu.edu (Richley Crapo)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 13:03:22 -0600
Subject: Lord's Prayer in Nahuatl -Reply
Message-ID: <MON.12.APR.1999.130322.0600.>

Here's a slightly different version I got from Charles Dibble about 30
years ago.  I don't know his source:

Totatzine in ilhuicac timoyetztica, ma yectenehualo in motocatzin--ma
tohuicpa huallauh in motlatocayotzin--ma chihualo in tlalticpac in
motlanequilitzin inyuh chihualo in ilhuicac--in totlaxcal in momoztlae
totech monequi ma axcan xitechmomaquili ma xitechmopopolhuili in
totlatlacalhuia macamo xitechmomacahuili inic amo ipan tihuetzizque in
teneyeyecoltiliztli zan ye ma xitechmomaquixtili in ihuicpa in amo
qualli.

Richley Crapo


From micc at home.com  Mon Apr 12 19:06:25 1999
From: micc at home.com (micc)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 13:06:25 -0600
Subject: Lord's Prayer in Nahuatl
Message-ID: <MON.12.APR.1999.130625.0600.>

for some reason, i did not get this line correctly, can you please
repost?

Thanks!

"John F. Schwaller" wrote:


> > TOtatzine in ilhuicac timoetztica, ma =E7enca yectenehuallo in motocatzin, m=
> a
> hualauh


From daphni at voicenet.com  Mon Apr 12 20:47:46 1999
From: daphni at voicenet.com (Wanda Schwandt)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:47:46 -0600
Subject: names
Message-ID: <MON.12.APR.1999.144746.0600.>

Hello all,

I am writing a children's book that deals with (in part) the Aztecs in
1500's. I am looking for names for some of the characters in the
Nahuatl language.  Male and female. Any help???

As I write, I may have more questions. Is this the place to get a few
answers?


Best regards,
 Wanda                            mailto:daphni at voicenet.com


From milinski at cybertours.com  Tue Apr 13 04:36:54 1999
From: milinski at cybertours.com (Michael Milinski)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 22:36:54 -0600
Subject: Mayan Languages
Message-ID: <MON.12.APR.1999.223654.0600.>

Does anybody have any first hand information about the preservation of
both the Nahuatl and the Mayan languages? Also if you have any
information about the ALMG in Guatemala I would appreciate recieving it.

Thanks,
Michael Milinski
University of Southern Maine


From milinski at cybertours.com  Tue Apr 13 04:39:53 1999
From: milinski at cybertours.com (Michael Milinski)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 22:39:53 -0600
Subject: Mayan languages
Message-ID: <MON.12.APR.1999.223953.0600.>

Does anybody have any information about the preservation of the Nahuatl
and the Mayan languages? Also if you have any information about the ALMG
in Guatemala I would appreciate recieving it.
Thanks,
Michael Milinski
University of Southern Maine


From nahuat-l at server.umt.edu  Tue Apr 13 19:25:18 1999
From: nahuat-l at server.umt.edu (by way of "John F. Schwaller" <schwallr@selway.umt.edu>)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 13:25:18 -0600
Subject: Sound / video of Nahuatl
Message-ID: <TUE.13.APR.1999.132518.0600.>

Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 11:07:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: "K. Smith" <sumizu at u.washington.edu>
To: nahuat-l at server.umt.edu
Subject: nahuatl tapes?

Hi

I'm learning Nahuatl on my own using R. Joe Campbell's books and
Andrews' grammar but I'm getting desparate to hear the sound of what I'm
learning.

Does anyone have or know of any audio tapes (or video) for learning. I can
only assume the pronunciation of certain sounds and I don't want to
develop any horrible speech habits this early!

Thanks,

Kevin Smith


From tezozomoc at std.teradyne.com  Tue Apr 13 19:54:23 1999
From: tezozomoc at std.teradyne.com (Tezozomoc)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 13:54:23 -0600
Subject: Sound / video of Nahuatl
Message-ID: <TUE.13.APR.1999.135423.0600.>

As much as I hate to do this I will do it at the request of a friend.

You can get the Gospel of John in nahuatl de Guerrero
and   The Gospel of John in nahuatl norte de puebla.

from the following organization.
Audio Scriptures International
P.O. Box 28417
San Diego, Ca 92198-8417
(619) 637-0867
fax (619) 673-8030

The price is reaonsable as you can see from the continual spiritual
oppression of  the people.

I know am going to get slack for this.


Tezozomoc.


"by way of John F. Schwaller " wrote:

> Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 11:07:36 -0700 (PDT)
> From: "K. Smith" <sumizu at u.washington.edu>
> To: nahuat-l at server.umt.edu
> Subject: nahuatl tapes?
>
> Hi
>
> I'm learning Nahuatl on my own using R. Joe Campbell's books and
> Andrews' grammar but I'm getting desparate to hear the sound of what I'm
> learning.
>
> Does anyone have or know of any audio tapes (or video) for learning. I can
> only assume the pronunciation of certain sounds and I don't want to
> develop any horrible speech habits this early!
>
> Thanks,
>
> Kevin Smith


From kammler at stud.uni-frankfurt.de  Tue Apr 13 23:17:43 1999
From: kammler at stud.uni-frankfurt.de (Henry Kammler)
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 17:17:43 -0600
Subject: Sound / video of Nahuatl
Message-ID: <TUE.13.APR.1999.171743.0600.>

You may like to listen to a tape that features different dialects currently
spoken in MX:
it's a tape called "Nahuas" from the series "?Qu=E9 lengua hablas?" no. 3,
issued by the INI together with the SEDESOL (Secretar=EDa de Desarrollo
Social).=20

The goal of the tape is actually to be useful for officials who pick up
ind=EDgenas that need help when they've got lost in the city or something an=
d
don't speak Spanish. Then they are supposed to play back that this kind of
tape to the campesino in order to find out where he's from. Which is
totally unrealistic, of course, but makes a nice comparison possible. It
contains sentences like "hi, this guy here is a good one, he will help you,
don't be afraid, just tell him where you are from ..." in five nahuatl
dialects.

Henry


From schwallr at selway.umt.edu  Wed Apr 14 14:20:42 1999
From: schwallr at selway.umt.edu (John F. Schwaller)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 08:20:42 -0600
Subject: Sound / video of Nahuatl
Message-ID: <WED.14.APR.1999.082042.0600.>

As was noted over the summer.  Perhaps the easiest way is to rent "Zorro"
There is a short dialogue in the middle of the film in which the "nanny"
character speaks Nahuatl.

J. F. Schwaller, List Owner


John Frederick Schwaller                             schwallr at selway.umt.edu
Associate Provost                                        406-243-4722
The University of Montana                           FAX 406-243-5937
                          http://www.umt.edu/history/NAHUATL/


From schwallr at selway.umt.edu  Wed Apr 14 14:23:42 1999
From: schwallr at selway.umt.edu (John F. Schwaller)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 08:23:42 -0600
Subject: Lord's Prayer w/out  cedilla
Message-ID: <WED.14.APR.1999.082342.0600.>

In the first posting, I realize that there was a cedilla in the first line
which came out as garbage on some machines.  Here is a corrected [sic] copy


TOtatzine in ilhuicac timoetztica, ma cenca yectenehuallo in motocatzin, ma
hualauh in motlatocayotzin ma chihuallo in motlanequillitzin in yuh
chihuallo in ilhuicac in tlalticpac, auh ma xitechmomaquilli in axcan in
totlaxcal momoztlaye totech monequiz, auh ma xitechmopopolhuillilli in
totlatlacol, in yuh tiquinpopolhuia in techtlatlacalhuia, auh macamo
xitechmocahuilli inic ipan tihuetzizque in tene[y]ecoltiliztli.  Ma in
mochihua.

J. F. Schwaller
John Frederick Schwaller                             schwallr at selway.umt.edu
Associate Provost                                        406-243-4722
The University of Montana                           FAX 406-243-5937
                          http://www.umt.edu/history/NAHUATL/


From schwallr at selway.umt.edu  Wed Apr 14 14:39:27 1999
From: schwallr at selway.umt.edu (John F. Schwaller)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 08:39:27 -0600
Subject: Other Prayers from Alba
Message-ID: <WED.14.APR.1999.083927.0600.>

There was a request for other prayers in Nahuatl.  These come from the
Confessionario mayor y menor of Bartolome de Alva, 1634, soon to appear in
an English-Nahuatl-Spanish edition edited by Barry Sell and myself, from
the University of Oklahoma Press, June 1999.

The Creed: [I have removed cedillas and replaced with c or z]
	EL CREDO.

Nicnoneltoquitia in cenhuellitini Dios Tetatzin in oquimochihuilli in
ilhuicatl in tlalticpactli, no nicnoneltoquitia in Totecuyo Iesu Christo in
zan huel yceltzin ypiltzin Dios in iteotlamahuizolticatzinco Spiritu Sancto
omonacayotzino:  omotlacatilli ytetzinco in Santa Maria mocemacitzinotica
cemicac ychpochtli:  motlahyyohuilli ytencopa in Pontio Pilato, +
Cruztitech mamazoaltilloc, momiquilli tococ motemohui in mictlan,
yyelhuitica, mozcallitzino intloc in mimique, motlecahui in ilhuicac
ymayeccampantzinco omotlallitzinoto in cenhuellitini Dios Tetatzin, auh ye
ompa in hualmehuitiz in quinmotlatzontequillilliquiuh in yolque, yhuan in
mimique no nicnoneltoquitia in Dios Spiritu Sancto Sancta Yglesia
Catholica, yhuan nitlaneltoca in itechcopa in innecentlallilliz in sanctome
yhuan in itechpa, tlatlacolpolihuilliztli yhuan ca oc cepa yolihuaz.


	El Ave Maria.

MA ximopaquiltitie Sancta Mariatzine timocentemilltitica in
teoqualnexilizmahuizotl gracia, motlantzinco moyetztica in tlatoani Dios,
inic ticenquizcayectenehualloni tiquinmopanahuillia in mochintin cihua, auh
no cenquizcayectenehualloni in ytlaaquillo in moxillantzin Iesus, Sancta
Mariatzine, in titlaconantzin Dios, ma topampa ximotlatlauhtilli in ye
axcan yhuan in ye tomiquiztempan, Ma in mochihua.

	
	La Salue [Regina].

MA ximopaquiltitie tlatocacihuapille, in tinantzin tetlaocollilliztli,
nemillitzintle, tzopellicatzintle tonechixcayellitzine, ma ximopaquiltitie,
ca timitzontotzatzillillia in tipilhuan Eua, mohuiccopatzinco
tonelciciuhtinemi tichocatinemi in nican choquizixtlahuacan iho
totepantlatocatzine ma ye cuelle, ma xitech, hualmocnoytilli, auh ma no
xitechhualmotitilli in itlaaquillo moxillantzin Iesus in cenca
yectenehualloni intla otictonquixtique in totlamacehualiz iho
ycnoacatzintle yho tetlaocollianie, yho tzopellicatzintle Sancta Mariatzine
cemicac ychpochtzintle.



J. F. Schwaller, List Owner	

John Frederick Schwaller                             schwallr at selway.umt.edu
Associate Provost                                        406-243-4722
The University of Montana                           FAX 406-243-5937
                          http://www.umt.edu/history/NAHUATL/


From schwallr at selway.umt.edu  Wed Apr 14 17:23:24 1999
From: schwallr at selway.umt.edu (John F. Schwaller)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 11:23:24 -0600
Subject: Nuevos hallazgos sobre chontales
Message-ID: <WED.14.APR.1999.112324.0600.>

>
>Puede ser de interes para nuestros colegas de H-Mexico el siguiente
>articulo.
>
>--Lon Pearson
>Department of Modern Languages
>Professor of Spanish
>University of Nebraska at Kearney
>Book  Review  Editor  for   _Chasqui:   Journal  of  Latin  American
>Literature_
>              <http://www.unk.edu/departments/languages/faculty.htm#a3>
>
>
>Se encuentra en la siguiente direccion (URL):
>
><http://www.eurekalert.org/releases/psu-wsm031999.html>
>EMBARGOED FOR RELEASE: 27 MARCH 1999 AT 09:00:00 ET US
>
>     Contact: A'ndrea Elyse Messer
>     aem1 at psu.edu
>     814-865-9481
>     Penn State Univ.
>
>     War Stories May Be Fish Tales
>
>     Chicago, Ill. -- To the victor go the spoils of war and usually the
>bragging rights, but how does one determine if claims made by winners
>are accurate?
>	Jay Silverstein, graduate student in anthropology at Penn State, may
>have proof that Aztec reports of annihilation of the Chontal were
>grossly exaggerated.
>	"Aztec narratives claim that the Chontal, a group living in the buffer
>area between the Aztec and Tarascan Empires, were annihilated in 1487,"
>Silverstein told attendees today (March 26) at the annual meeting of the
>Society of American Archaeology in Chicago. "However, regional documents
>suggest the Chontal always had their own ruler, even under Aztec
>authority, and were present when the Spanish came."
>	Silverstein, who conducted archaeological survey about 100 miles
>southwest of Mexico City, is trying to reconstruct the Aztec/Tarascan
>frontier from a time just before European contact. Using 16th-century
>documents and archaeological evidence, he identified a frontier site
>that was probably the Chontal fortress of Oztuma. Confusion exists,
>however, because a site identified in the 1940s as Oztuma is an Aztec
>site.
>	The documents agree that the Aztec incorporated the Chontal city-state
>of Oztuma into their empire between 1469 and 1480. Also, at this time,
>the Aztecs entered into a war with their western neighbor, the Tarascan
>empire. The Aztec crowned a new king in 1487, in Mexico City, but
>representatives of the Chontal did not attend the coronation. Aztec
>scouts reported the Chontal city-states of Oztuma, Teloloapan and
>Alahuiztlan in rebellion. The Chontal lost the subsequent Aztec/Chontal
>War.
>	"Both sets of documents indicate the Chontal lost, but the central core
>documents say the Aztec destroyed the cities and Aztec citizens replaced
>the Chontal, while the periphery documents tell a different story," says
>Silverstein.
>	The Aztec documents are narrative histories written after the Spanish
>conquered Mexico City. The frontier documents are parts of the
>Relaciones Geograficas, a series of documents developed in the sixteenth
>century from answers to standardized questions asked of subject towns in
>New Spain. The Relaciones show the governor of the Oztuma area as Diego
>Osorio, son of the man who was king when the Spanish conquered Mexico in
>1521.
>	"The Relaciones also say that the Chontal always had a king they
>respected, implying a Chontal king," says Silverstein. "However, a giant
>Aztec fortress, discovered and mapped in the 1940s, exists and a town
>below is said to be the location of Oztuma after the Spanish came."
>	Silverstein found the Aztec fortress and town, but, as most previous
>archaeologists discovered, the geographic information from the 16th
>century does not work if this town is the Oztuma of the Relaciones.
>Something is wrong.
>	"We heard a rumor that other documents existed in San Simon Oztuma, but
>the town was abandoned," says Silverstein. "We found the documents in
>the near by town of Ixtepec."
>	A document dated to 1585 carries Don Diego Osorio's signature, proving
>he was a real person and strongly suggesting that the Chontal survived
>the Aztec.
>	Above Ixtepec is an old fortress. "I believe that this fortress is the
>original Chontal Fortress of Oztuma," says Silverstein. "We found only a
>very little Aztec pottery there. Most of the pottery sherds were Chontal
>Red on Buff."
>	It appears that when the Spanish came, they moved the Chontal from
>their mountain stronghold at Ixtepec to the valley of San Simon Oztuma
>and that the Aztecs who had built their Fortress of Oztuma six miles
>southeast of the Chontal fort, moved down to the town of Acapetlahuaya.
>So the Aztec did come to the area to build a
>fortress.
>	However, the original Chontal Oztuma fortress remained and, with an
>Aztec fortress named Oztuma, and a town called San Simon Oztuma things
>became very confused.
>	"If Chontal Oztuma is used as the head town in the Relacion
>Geographica, the directions make sense," says Silverstein of Penn State.
>"We found a line of fortresses, including Chontal and Aztec sites, built
>to protect the Aztec empire from the Tarascans."
>	Other interesting sites located during the survey include a wall
>running about a mile and three quarters that cuts off a bend in a river.
>The wall is in the no-man's land between the two empires.
>	"Locals say that in the 1940s the wall was about 5-feet high," says
>Silverstein. "The foundation style indicates it predates the Spanish."
>	At one end of the wall there is evidence of a battle. The area is
>strewn with sling shot balls, projectile points and other obsidian
>debris.
>	"My guess is that it was a fortress built by the Chontal to try and
>hold the river valley from the Tarascans and their allies," says the
>Penn State researcher. "The Chontal were probably forced to abandon this
>forward defense within the first decades of the war."
>	The Chontal were caught between two great pre-Hispanic empires.
>Usually, people in this situation are written out of history, but the
>archaeological remains show that the Chontal played an integral role in
>the defense of the Aztec empire and maintained their identity even after
>the Spanish came. After the fall of the Aztec empire to Hernan Cortes in
>1521, the Tarascan force that had been besieging the Aztec fortress
>retreated and the Chontal, using Spanish law, reasserted their political
>dominance over the isolated Aztec garrison.
>
>                                    ###
>
>     EDITORS: Mr. Silverstein is at 814-466-3461 or jes20 at psu.edu by
>email.
>
>
>--
>Antonio Ibarra, moderador
>ibarrara at servidor.unam.mx
>Isabel Avella, editora asociada
>===============================
>
>
John Frederick Schwaller                             schwallr at selway.umt.edu
Associate Provost                                        406-243-4722
The University of Montana                           FAX 406-243-5937
                          http://www.umt.edu/history/NAHUATL/


From ECOLING at aol.com  Wed Apr 14 18:27:15 1999
From: ECOLING at aol.com (ECOLING at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 12:27:15 -0600
Subject: Nuevos hallazgos sobre chontales
Message-ID: <WED.14.APR.1999.122715.0600.>

John F. Schwaller:

May I pass the following message on to the AZTLAN email list?
Thanks, Lloyd Anderson

In a message dated 4/14/99 1:24:06 PM, you wrote:

>><http://www.eurekalert.org/releases/psu-wsm031999.html>
>>EMBARGOED FOR RELEASE: 27 MARCH 1999 AT 09:00:00 ET US
>>
>>     Contact: A'ndrea Elyse Messer
>>     aem1 at psu.edu
>>     814-865-9481
>>     Penn State Univ.
>>
>>     War Stories May Be Fish Tales
>>
>>     Chicago, Ill. -- To the victor go the spoils of war and usually the
>>bragging rights, but how does one determine if claims made by winners
>>are accurate?
>>	Jay Silverstein, graduate student in anthropology at Penn State, may
>>have proof that Aztec reports of annihilation of the Chontal were
>>grossly exaggerated.
>>	"Aztec narratives claim that the Chontal, a group living in the buffer
>>area between the Aztec and Tarascan Empires, were annihilated in 1487,"
>>Silverstein told attendees today (March 26) at the annual meeting of the
>>Society of American Archaeology in Chicago. "However, regional documents
>>suggest the Chontal always had their own ruler, even under Aztec
>>authority, and were present when the Spanish came."
>>	Silverstein, who conducted archaeological survey about 100 miles
>>southwest of Mexico City, is trying to reconstruct the Aztec/Tarascan
>>frontier from a time just before European contact. Using 16th-century
>>documents and archaeological evidence, he identified a frontier site
>>that was probably the Chontal fortress of Oztuma. Confusion exists,
>>however, because a site identified in the 1940s as Oztuma is an Aztec
>>site.
>>	The documents agree that the Aztec incorporated the Chontal city-state
>>of Oztuma into their empire between 1469 and 1480. Also, at this time,
>>the Aztecs entered into a war with their western neighbor, the Tarascan
>>empire. The Aztec crowned a new king in 1487, in Mexico City, but
>>representatives of the Chontal did not attend the coronation. Aztec
>>scouts reported the Chontal city-states of Oztuma, Teloloapan and
>>Alahuiztlan in rebellion. The Chontal lost the subsequent Aztec/Chontal
>>War.
>>	"Both sets of documents indicate the Chontal lost, but the central
core
>>documents say the Aztec destroyed the cities and Aztec citizens replaced
>>the Chontal, while the periphery documents tell a different story," says
>>Silverstein.
>>	The Aztec documents are narrative histories written after the Spanish
>>conquered Mexico City. The frontier documents are parts of the
>>Relaciones Geograficas, a series of documents developed in the sixteenth
>>century from answers to standardized questions asked of subject towns in
>>New Spain. The Relaciones show the governor of the Oztuma area as Diego
>>Osorio, son of the man who was king when the Spanish conquered Mexico in
>>1521.
>>	"The Relaciones also say that the Chontal always had a king they
>>respected, implying a Chontal king," says Silverstein. "However, a giant
>>Aztec fortress, discovered and mapped in the 1940s, exists and a town
>>below is said to be the location of Oztuma after the Spanish came."
>>	Silverstein found the Aztec fortress and town, but, as most previous
>>archaeologists discovered, the geographic information from the 16th
>>century does not work if this town is the Oztuma of the Relaciones.
>>Something is wrong.
>>	"We heard a rumor that other documents existed in San Simon Oztuma,
but
>>the town was abandoned," says Silverstein. "We found the documents in
>>the near by town of Ixtepec."
>>	A document dated to 1585 carries Don Diego Osorio's signature, proving
>>he was a real person and strongly suggesting that the Chontal survived
>>the Aztec.
>>	Above Ixtepec is an old fortress. "I believe that this fortress is the
>>original Chontal Fortress of Oztuma," says Silverstein. "We found only a
>>very little Aztec pottery there. Most of the pottery sherds were Chontal
>>Red on Buff."
>>	It appears that when the Spanish came, they moved the Chontal from
>>their mountain stronghold at Ixtepec to the valley of San Simon Oztuma
>>and that the Aztecs who had built their Fortress of Oztuma six miles
>>southeast of the Chontal fort, moved down to the town of Acapetlahuaya.
>>So the Aztec did come to the area to build a
>>fortress.
>>	However, the original Chontal Oztuma fortress remained and, with an
>>Aztec fortress named Oztuma, and a town called San Simon Oztuma things
>>became very confused.
>>	"If Chontal Oztuma is used as the head town in the Relacion
>>Geographica, the directions make sense," says Silverstein of Penn State.
>>"We found a line of fortresses, including Chontal and Aztec sites, built
>>to protect the Aztec empire from the Tarascans."
>>	Other interesting sites located during the survey include a wall
>>running about a mile and three quarters that cuts off a bend in a river.
>>The wall is in the no-man's land between the two empires.
>>	"Locals say that in the 1940s the wall was about 5-feet high," says
>>Silverstein. "The foundation style indicates it predates the Spanish."
>>	At one end of the wall there is evidence of a battle. The area is
>>strewn with sling shot balls, projectile points and other obsidian
>>debris.
>>	"My guess is that it was a fortress built by the Chontal to try and
>>hold the river valley from the Tarascans and their allies," says the
>>Penn State researcher. "The Chontal were probably forced to abandon this
>>forward defense within the first decades of the war."
>>	The Chontal were caught between two great pre-Hispanic empires.
>>Usually, people in this situation are written out of history, but the
>>archaeological remains show that the Chontal played an integral role in
>>the defense of the Aztec empire and maintained their identity even after
>>the Spanish came. After the fall of the Aztec empire to Hernan Cortes in
>>1521, the Tarascan force that had been besieging the Aztec fortress
>>retreated and the Chontal, using Spanish law, reasserted their political
>>dominance over the isolated Aztec garrison.
>>
>>                                    ###
>>
>>     EDITORS: Mr. Silverstein is at 814-466-3461 or jes20 at psu.edu by
>>email.
>>
>>
>>--
>>Antonio Ibarra, moderador
>>ibarrara at servidor.unam.mx
>>Isabel Avella, editora asociada
>>===============================
>>
>>
>John Frederick Schwaller                             schwallr at selway.umt.edu
>Associate Provost                                        406-243-4722
>The University of Montana                           FAX 406-243-5937
>                          http://www.umt.edu/history/NAHUATL/


From xochiquetzal at earthlink.net  Fri Apr 16 08:31:52 1999
From: xochiquetzal at earthlink.net (Odilia Rodriguez)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 02:31:52 -0600
Subject: Books on the Mexia Pantheon
Message-ID: <FRI.16.APR.1999.023152.0600.>

Dear Listeros,

I am making another try at requesting information on books regarding the
Mexica/Azteca Pantheon.  I am doing research for a book comparing the
gods/goddesses of the Mexica to those of a different nature based
religion.  I have good material thus far but would like to use some
other references.  Gracias in advance.  Odilia


From lesbre at univ-tlse2.fr  Fri Apr 16 13:21:12 1999
From: lesbre at univ-tlse2.fr (Patrick LESBRE)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 07:21:12 -0600
Subject: Books on the Mexia Pantheon
Message-ID: <FRI.16.APR.1999.072112.0600.>

If you read franch you can find an excellent and recent book by Guilhem
OLIVIER "Moqueries et m=E9tamorphoses d'un dieu azt=E8que. Tezcatlipoca le
Seigneur au miroir fumant". It will be translate in english but in one two
years.

        Patrick

At 02:33 16/04/99 -0600, vous avez =E9crit:
>Dear Listeros,
>
>I am making another try at requesting information on books regarding the
>Mexica/Azteca Pantheon.  I am doing research for a book comparing the
>gods/goddesses of the Mexica to those of a different nature based
>religion.  I have good material thus far but would like to use some
>other references.  Gracias in advance.  Odilia
>
>

___________________

Patrick LESBRE
Universit=E9 de Toulouse le Mirail
32 rue la Fonderie
31000 TOULOUSE
t=E9l. 05 61 14 26 99
fax  05 61 50 49 25
email lesbre at univ-tlse2.fr


From ochoa at scd.hp.com  Fri Apr 16 14:08:12 1999
From: ochoa at scd.hp.com (Marcos Ochoa)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 08:08:12 -0600
Subject: Books on the Mexia Pantheon
Message-ID: <FRI.16.APR.1999.080812.0600.>

> From nahuat-l at server.umt.edu Fri Apr 16 04:38:56 EDT 1999
> Received: from palrel1.hp.com (palrel1.hp.com [15.81.168.10]) by
mentor4.scd.hp.com with ESMTP (8.7.1/8.7.1) id BAA06234 for
<ochoa at mentor4.scd.hp.com>; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 01:38:55 -0700 (PDT)
> Received: from server.umt.edu (server.umt.edu [150.131.14.70])
	by palrel1.hp.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 817653F8
	for <ochoa at mentor4.scd.hp.com>; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 01:35:17 -0700 (PDT)
> Received: from listserv.umt.edu (server at localhost [127.0.0.1])
          by server.umt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.4) with SMTP
	  id CAA05493; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 02:32:45 -0600
> Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 02:32:45 -0600
> Message-Id: <371845E0.66FE at earthlink.net>
> Errors-To: schwallr at selway.umt.edu
> Reply-To: nahuat-l at server.umt.edu
> Originator: nahuat-l at listserv.umt.edu
> Sender: nahuat-l at server.umt.edu
> Precedence: bulk
> From: Odilia Rodriguez <xochiquetzal at earthlink.net>
> To: Multiple recipients of list <nahuat-l at server.umt.edu>
> Subject: Books on the Mexia Pantheon
> X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
> Content-Length: 340
> Status: RO
>
> Dear Listeros,
>
> I am making another try at requesting information on books regarding the
> Mexica/Azteca Pantheon.  I am doing research for a book comparing the
> gods/goddesses of the Mexica to those of a different nature based
> religion.  I have good material thus far but would like to use some
> other references.  Gracias in advance.  Odilia


From Huaxyacac at aol.com  Fri Apr 16 14:38:54 1999
From: Huaxyacac at aol.com (Huaxyacac at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 08:38:54 -0600
Subject: Books on the Mexia Pantheon
Message-ID: <FRI.16.APR.1999.083854.0600.>

Odilia,
To really understand how Aztec folk religion worked, I suggest you read
Hernando Ruiz de Alarcon's Tratado de las supersticiones. There are two
translations available: I prefer Andrews and Hassig's (U Oklahoma, 1984), but
Coe and Whittaker (Institute for Mesoamerican Studies) isn't bad, either.
Alec Christensen
Augusta State University


From dowden at mscd.edu  Sun Apr 18 20:33:24 1999
From: dowden at mscd.edu (CD)
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 14:33:24 -0600
Subject: Women in struggle...
Message-ID: <SUN.18.APR.1999.143324.0600.>

A close friend of mine is working with a group of indigenous women here in
Denver to create a proactive group that works with issues realting to
indigenous women.  The group will focus its work here in the Denver
community and throughout Turtle Island.  In the proccess of getting the
program off the ground they are setting up a fundraiser to send some young
women to Chiapas to work with women in a bread making cooperative.  They
need the phrase "Women in struggle" translated in as many indigenous
languages as possible.  The translations will be used on t-shirts and
flyers to promote the group, spread the Idea, and hoepefully get interest
and support from other women here in the Denver community. It would be
greatly appreciated if anyone could translate this into Nahuat.  Thank
you.

Take care...

VIVA ABYA YALA!

Hun Hun

"CD"
dowden at mscd.edu

<---silence--->


From xochiquetzal at earthlink.net  Sun Apr 18 23:39:39 1999
From: xochiquetzal at earthlink.net (Odilia Rodriguez)
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 17:39:39 -0600
Subject: Books on the Mexia Pantheon
Message-ID: <SUN.18.APR.1999.173939.0600.>

Patrick LESBRE wrote:
>
> If you read franch you can find an excellent and recent book by Guilhem
> OLIVIER "Moqueries et m=E9tamorphoses d'un dieu azt=E8que. Tezcatlipoca le
> Seigneur au miroir fumant". It will be translate in english but in one two
> years.
>
>         Patrick

> ___________________
>
> Patrick LESBRE
> Universit=E9 de Toulouse le Mirail
> 32 rue la Fonderie
> 31000 TOULOUSE
> t=E9l. 05 61 14 26 99
> fax  05 61 50 49 25
> email lesbre at univ-tlse2.fr

Thank you for your reply, I am fluent in Spanish but do not read French
that well.  I would like to see the book in French--see what I can get
from it--and will definately look for it when it comes out in English.

Odilia


From xochiquetzal at earthlink.net  Sun Apr 18 23:42:35 1999
From: xochiquetzal at earthlink.net (Odilia Rodriguez)
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 17:42:35 -0600
Subject: Books on the Mexia Pantheon
Message-ID: <SUN.18.APR.1999.174235.0600.>

Huaxyacac at aol.com wrote:
>
> Odilia,
> To really understand how Aztec folk religion worked, I suggest you read
> Hernando Ruiz de Alarcon's Tratado de las supersticiones. There are two
> translations available: I prefer Andrews and Hassig's (U Oklahoma, 1984), but
> Coe and Whittaker (Institute for Mesoamerican Studies) isn't bad, either.
> Alec Christensen
> Augusta State University

Hola,

I want to thank you and everyone else who replied to my e-mail.  I knew
of many of the books but not the Glenniden one and this book by Ruiz de
Alarcon I had no idea it was translated into English so thanks for that
very much.

A friend of mine, Francisco Alarcon wrote a lovely book called the Snake
Poems inspired by Ruiz de Alarcon's book and at the time I believe he
had to translate from Spanish.  In any event I appreciate all of the
suggestions.  If anyone else on the list has further suggestions please
e-mail me.

Odilia


From tezozomoc at std.teradyne.com  Mon Apr 19 16:43:08 1999
From: tezozomoc at std.teradyne.com (Tezozomoc)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 10:43:08 -0600
Subject: Women in struggle...
Message-ID: <MON.19.APR.1999.104308.0600.>

I would recommend the following:

1.     Cihua:meh in Ya:o:tihua = women in struggle  {woman + plural, Ya:o:
(war), ti (connective), -hua (ownners).

2.    Cihua:meh in ya:o:pan.  = women in battle (struggle).


Tezozomoc



CD wrote:

> A close friend of mine is working with a group of indigenous women here in
> Denver to create a proactive group that works with issues realting to
> indigenous women.  The group will focus its work here in the Denver
> community and throughout Turtle Island.  In the proccess of getting the
> program off the ground they are setting up a fundraiser to send some young
> women to Chiapas to work with women in a bread making cooperative.  They
> need the phrase "Women in struggle" translated in as many indigenous
> languages as possible.  The translations will be used on t-shirts and
> flyers to promote the group, spread the Idea, and hoepefully get interest
> and support from other women here in the Denver community. It would be
> greatly appreciated if anyone could translate this into Nahuat.  Thank
> you.
>
> Take care...
>
> VIVA ABYA YALA!
>
> Hun Hun
>
> "CD"
> dowden at mscd.edu
>
> <---silence--->


From tezozomoc at std.teradyne.com  Mon Apr 19 17:01:32 1999
From: tezozomoc at std.teradyne.com (Tezozomoc)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 11:01:32 -0600
Subject: Women in struggle...
Message-ID: <MON.19.APR.1999.110132.0600.>

There was a 3rd one I wanted to include.


Cihuameh in tlayecoliztli.


Tezozomoc wrote:

> I would recommend the following:
>
> 1.     Cihua:meh in Ya:o:tihua = women in struggle  {woman + plural, Ya:o:
> (war), ti (connective), -hua (ownners).
>
> 2.    Cihua:meh in ya:o:pan.  = women in battle (struggle).
>
> Tezozomoc
>
> CD wrote:
>
> > A close friend of mine is working with a group of indigenous women here in
> > Denver to create a proactive group that works with issues realting to
> > indigenous women.  The group will focus its work here in the Denver
> > community and throughout Turtle Island.  In the proccess of getting the
> > program off the ground they are setting up a fundraiser to send some young
> > women to Chiapas to work with women in a bread making cooperative.  They
> > need the phrase "Women in struggle" translated in as many indigenous
> > languages as possible.  The translations will be used on t-shirts and
> > flyers to promote the group, spread the Idea, and hoepefully get interest
> > and support from other women here in the Denver community. It would be
> > greatly appreciated if anyone could translate this into Nahuat.  Thank
> > you.
> >
> > Take care...
> >
> > VIVA ABYA YALA!
> >
> > Hun Hun
> >
> > "CD"
> > dowden at mscd.edu
> >
> > <---silence--->


From loyo at servidor.unam.mx  Wed Apr 21 17:22:28 1999
From: loyo at servidor.unam.mx (Martha Beatriz Loyo Camacho (by way of "John F. Schwaller"
 <schwallr@selway.umt.edu>))
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 11:22:28 -0600
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ciclo_de_Conferencias_sobre_Sahag=FAn?=
Message-ID: <WED.21.APR.1999.112228.0600.>

>>Subject: Ciclo de Conferencias sobre Sahag=FAn
>>
>>El Instituto de Investigaciones Hist=F3ricas=20
>>de la Universidad Nacional Aut=F3noma de M=E9xico
>>y el Museo Nacional de Antropolog=EDa
>>del Instituto Nacional de Antropolog=EDa e Historia
>>
>>se complacen en invitarle al
>>
>>Ciclo de conferencias
>>BERNARDINO DE SAHAG=DAN
>>Quinientos a=F1os de presencia
>>
>>
>>Martes 27 de abril
>>La Historia general de Sahag=FAn a la luz de las enciclopedias
>>de la tradici=F3n greco-romana,
>>por Ascensi=F3n H. de Le=F3n-Portilla
>>
>>Martes 4 de mayo
>>El pante=F3n prehisp=E1nico en la Historia general de Sahag=FAn
>>por Guilhem Olivier
>>
>>Martes 11de mayo
>>Los mitos en la obra de Sahag=FAn
>>Alfredo L=F3pez Austin
>>
>>Martes l8 de mayo
>>La sociedad ind=EDgena en la Historia general,
>>por Federico Navarrete
>>
>>Martes 25 de mayo
>>Los huehuehtlahtolli, testimonios de la antigua palabra,
>> recogidos por Sahag=FAn,
>>por Librado Silva Galeana
>>
>>Martes 1 de junio
>>Bernardino de Sahag=FAn ling=FCista.
>>por Pilar M=E1ynez
>>
>>Martes 8de junio
>>Las plantas en la Historia general=20
>>por Javier Lozoya
>>
>>Martes 15de junio
>>Los animales en la obra de Sahag=FAn,
>>por Mercedes de la Garza
>>
>>Martes 22 de junio
>>Enfermedades y medicina ind=EDgena en la obra de Sahag=FAn,
>>por Carlos Viesca
>>
>>Martes 29 de junio
>>La Historia general: un encuentro de dos sistemas cognitivos,
>>por Patrick Johansson
>>
>>Martes 6 de julio
>>Los l=EDmites del conocimiento y el aprecio del Otro,
>>por Luis Villoro
>>
>>Martes 13 de julio
>>Intentos de nahuatlizaci=F3n del cristianismo en los Coloquios de Sahag=FA=
n,
>>por Francisco Morales Valerio
>>
>>Martes 20 de julio
>>La Conquista de M=E9xico, seg=FAn los testimonios recogidos por Sahag=FAn,
>>por Georges Baudot
>>
>>Las conferencias ser=E1n todos los martes,
>>de abril a julio, a las 19:00 horas, en
>>
>>MUSEO NACIONAL DE ANTROPOLOG=CDA
>>Auditorio Jaime Torres Bodet
>>Reforma y Calzada Gandhi,
>>Chapultepec, Polanco
>>
>-------------------------------------------------------
>               Lic. Miriam C. Izquierdo
>                 Secretaria T=E9cnica
>       Instituto de Investigaciones Hist=F3ricas
>       Universidad Nacional Aut=F3noma de M=E9xico
>       Tel. (525) 622 7529 Fax. (525) 665 0070
>          e-mail miriam at servidor.unam.mx
>       Circuito Mario de la Cueva, Zona cultural
>      Ciudad Universitaria, M=E9xico D.F. CP 04510  =20
>-------------------------------------------------------
>


From fjgs at servidor.unam.mx  Wed Apr 21 21:40:50 1999
From: fjgs at servidor.unam.mx (Ehecatecolotl)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 15:40:50 -0600
Subject: Sound / video of Nahuatl
Message-ID: <WED.21.APR.1999.154050.0600.>

Perhaps a bit tardy on my posting but you might find it interesting. There's
a movie of recent release. The title in Spanish is La Otra Conquista. It was
produced by Placido Domingo and it has the most abundant nahuatl content in
any movie I have so far seen. I don't know about its availability abroad
Mexico and I don't want to go into the details of its ideological content.
Suffice to say people speak Nahuatl in it. If you have a chance, go see it.


Ehecatecolotl.


From robc at csufresno.edu  Thu Apr 22 01:23:36 1999
From: robc at csufresno.edu (Robert G. Comegys)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 19:23:36 -0600
Subject: Ciclo de Conferencias sobre Sahagún
Message-ID: <WED.21.APR.1999.192336.0600.>

--------------66CE68EE27EE625F216AAD5D
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Subject: Ciclo de Conferencias sobre Sahag?n

El Instituto de Investigaciones Hist?ricas=20
de la Universidad Nacional Aut?noma de M?xico
y el Museo Nacional de Antropolog?a
del Instituto Nacional de Antropolog?a e Historia
se complacen en invitarle al Ciclo de conferencias
BERNARDINO DE SAHAG?N Quinientos a?os de presencia

Martes 27 de abril
La Historia general de Sahag?n a la luz de las enciclopedias
de la tradici?n greco-romana, por Ascensi?n H. de Le?n-Portilla

Martes 4 de mayo
El pante?n prehisp?nico en la Historia general de Sahag?n
por Guilhem Olivier

Martes 11 de mayo
Los mitos en la obra de Sahag?n
Alfredo L?pez Austin

Martes l8 de mayo
La sociedad ind?gena en la Historia general,
por Federico Navarrete

Martes 25 de mayo
Los huehuehtlahtolli, testimonios de la antigua palabra,

recogidos por Sahag?n,
por Librado Silva Galeana

Martes 1 de junio
Bernardino de Sahag?n ling?ista.
por Pilar M=E1ynez

Martes 8de junio
Las plantas en la Historia general=20
por Javier Lozoya

Martes 15 de junio
Los animales en la obra de Sahag?n,
por Mercedes de la Garza

Martes 22 de junio
Enfermedades y medicina ind?gena en la obra de Sahag?n,
por Carlos Viesca

Martes 29 de junio
La Historia general: un encuentro de dos sistemas cognitivos,
por Patrick Johansson

Martes 6 de julio
Los l?mites del conocimiento y el aprecio del Otro,
por Luis Villoro

Martes 13 de julio
Intentos de nahuatlizaci?n del cristianismo en los Coloquios de Sahag?n,
por Francisco Morales Valerio

Martes 20 de julio
La Conquista de M?xico, seg?n los testimonios recogidos por Sahag?n,
por Georges Baudot

Las conferencias ser?n todos los martes,
de abril a julio, a las 19:00 horas, en

MUSEO NACIONAL DE ANTROPOLOG?A
Auditorio Jaime Torres Bodet
Reforma y Calzada Gandhi,
Chapultepec, Polanco

-------------------------------------------------------
               Lic. Miriam C. Izquierdo
>                 Secretaria T?cnica
>       Instituto de Investigaciones Hist?ricas
>       Universidad Nacional Aut?noma de M?xico
>       Tel. (525) 622 7529 Fax. (525) 665 0070
>          e-mail miriam at servidor.unam.mx
>       Circuito Mario de la Cueva, Zona cultural
>      Ciudad Universitaria, M?xico D.F. CP 04510  =20
>-------------------------------------------------------
>



--------------66CE68EE27EE625F216AAD5D
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML>

<PRE>Subject: Ciclo de Conferencias sobre Sahag&uacute;n

El Instituto de Investigaciones Hist&oacute;ricas=20
de la Universidad Nacional Aut&oacute;noma de M&eacute;xico
y el Museo Nacional de Antropolog&iacute;a
del Instituto Nacional de Antropolog&iacute;a e Historia
se complacen en invitarle al Ciclo de conferencias
BERNARDINO DE SAHAG&Uacute;N Quinientos a&ntilde;os de presencia</PRE>

<PRE>Martes 27 de abril
La Historia general de Sahag&uacute;n a la luz de las enciclopedias
de la tradici&oacute;n greco-romana, por Ascensi&oacute;n H. de Le&oacute;n-Portilla

Martes 4 de mayo
El pante&oacute;n prehisp&aacute;nico en la Historia general de Sahag&uacute;n
por Guilhem Olivier

Martes 11 de mayo
Los mitos en la obra de Sahag&uacute;n
Alfredo L&oacute;pez Austin

Martes l8 de mayo
La sociedad ind&iacute;gena en la Historia general,
por Federico Navarrete

Martes 25 de mayo
Los huehuehtlahtolli, testimonios de la antigua palabra,</PRE>

<PRE>recogidos por Sahag&uacute;n,
por Librado Silva Galeana

Martes 1 de junio
Bernardino de Sahag&uacute;n ling&uuml;ista.
por Pilar M=E1ynez

Martes 8de junio
Las plantas en la Historia general=20
por Javier Lozoya

Martes 15 de junio
Los animales en la obra de Sahag&uacute;n,
por Mercedes de la Garza

Martes 22 de junio
Enfermedades y medicina ind&iacute;gena en la obra de Sahag&uacute;n,
por Carlos Viesca

Martes 29 de junio
La Historia general: un encuentro de dos sistemas cognitivos,
por Patrick Johansson</PRE>

<PRE>Martes 6 de julio
Los l&iacute;mites del conocimiento y el aprecio del Otro,
por Luis Villoro

Martes 13 de julio
Intentos de nahuatlizaci&oacute;n del cristianismo en los Coloquios de Sahag&uacute;n,
por Francisco Morales Valerio

Martes 20 de julio
La Conquista de M&eacute;xico, seg&uacute;n los testimonios recogidos por Sahag&uacute;n,
por Georges Baudot

Las conferencias ser&aacute;n todos los martes,
de abril a julio, a las 19:00 horas, en

MUSEO NACIONAL DE ANTROPOLOG&Iacute;A
Auditorio Jaime Torres Bodet
Reforma y Calzada Gandhi,
Chapultepec, Polanco

-------------------------------------------------------
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Lic. Miriam C. Izquierdo
>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Secretaria T&eacute;cnica
>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Instituto de Investigaciones Hist&oacute;ricas
>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Universidad Nacional Aut&oacute;noma de M&eacute;xico
>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Tel. (525) 622 7529 Fax. (525) 665 0070
>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; e-mail miriam at servidor.unam.mx
>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Circuito Mario de la Cueva, Zona cultural
>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Ciudad Universitaria, M&eacute;xico D.F. CP 04510&nbsp; =20
>-------------------------------------------------------
>




</PRE>
&nbsp;</HTML>

--------------66CE68EE27EE625F216AAD5D--


From umwalk05 at cc.UManitoba.CA  Thu Apr 22 07:24:26 1999
From: umwalk05 at cc.UManitoba.CA (byron walker (vlad))
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 01:24:26 -0600
Subject: something i found in my wanderings
Message-ID: <THU.22.APR.1999.012426.0600.>

Presented here are three poems from the book called In Yancuic Nahua
Tlahtolli (Nuevos Relatos y Cantos en N?huatl) by Miguel de Le?n Portilla,
Alfredo Ram?rez, Francisco Morales and Librado Silva Galeana. UNAM, M?xico,
1989.

Each poem is followed by the Spanish translation provided by the book.



NONANTZIN


Nonantzin ihcuac nimiquiz,
motlecuilpan xinechtoca
huan cuac tiaz titlaxcal chihuaz,
ompa nopampa xichoca.


Huan tla acah mitztlah tlaniz:
-Zoapille, ?tleca tichoca?
xiquilhui xoxouhqui in cuahuitl,
techochcti ica popoca.



MADRECITA MIA


Madrecita m?a, cuando yo muera,
sep?ltame junto al fog?n
y cuando vayas a hacer las tortillas
all? por m? llora.


Y si alguien te preguntara:
-Se?ora, ?por qu? lloras?
dile que est? verde la le?a,
hace llorar con el humo.



NOTLAZOHTLA


Notlazohtla ichpoxochitl,
in citlalin titlachia
ihcuac quin ye tlanexti,
tepetzallan tlanexia


Ximocuiti, ica melahuac
ica melahuac nimitztlazohtla,
inhuac quin ye tlanexti,
tepetzallan tlanextia.



AMADA MIA


Amada m?a, flor doncella,
la estrella contemplas
cuando ya amanece
entre los cerros brilla.


Hazla tuya, porque en verdad,
en verdad, yo te amo,
cuando amanece
entre los cerros brilla



TLANECI


Ihcuac tlalixpan tlaneci,
in mtztli momiquilia,
citlalimeh ixmimiqueh
in ilhuicac moxotlaltia.


Ompa huehca itzintlan tepetl,
popocatoc hoxacaltzin,
ompa yetoc notlahzotzin,
noyolotzin, nocihuatzin.



AMANECE


Cuando sobre la tierra amanece
la luna muere,
las estrellas dejan de verse,
el cielo se ilumina.


All? lejos, al pie del cerro,
sale humo de mi caba?a,
all? est? mi amorcito,
mi coraz?n, mi mujercita.


From mexicapride at earthlink.net  Fri Apr 23 03:22:16 1999
From: mexicapride at earthlink.net (Tekpatltzin)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 21:22:16 -0600
Subject: Sound / video of Nahuatl
Message-ID: <THU.22.APR.1999.212216.0600.>

Tiahui,

If you would like to see a description of "The Other Conquest" (La Otra
Conquista) go to the web site: chicagolatinocinema.org and follow the link to
the 15th Annual Film Festival.
Here in Chicago the movie has received very favorable reviews and although I
have not personally seen it I can only offer the comments from a local movie
critic "Roger Ebert" who stated that the movie depicts the other conquest which
is the Spaniards goal of total domination of the Mexika spiritual world and
subsequent replacement with Spanish "Catholic Values". I contacted the film
distributors for inquiries about a possible video purchase. They have no
immediate plans for video or wide scale screen showing in the U.S.

Tlazohkamati,

Tekpatltzin


Ehecatecolotl wrote:

> Perhaps a bit tardy on my posting but you might find it interesting. There's
> a movie of recent release. The title in Spanish is La Otra Conquista. It was
> produced by Placido Domingo and it has the most abundant nahuatl content in
> any movie I have so far seen. I don't know about its availability abroad
> Mexico and I don't want to go into the details of its ideological content.
> Suffice to say people speak Nahuatl in it. If you have a chance, go see it.
>
> Ehecatecolotl.


From MiAbismo at aol.com  Sat Apr 24 00:06:46 1999
From: MiAbismo at aol.com (MiAbismo at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 18:06:46 -0600
Subject: La Otra Conquista
Message-ID: <FRI.23.APR.1999.180646.0600.>

	Dear Listeros:

	I got the opportunity to view La Otra Conquista last week at the
Noche Mexicana Gala hosted by the 15th Chicago Latino Film Festival.  Both
Producer Alvaro Domingo (Placido Domingo's son) and Writer and Director
Salvador Carrasco were present.  In their speeches they stated it took them 7
years to get this movie done and out in theatres in Mexico.  Since it is a
historical reenactment, motion picture labels didn't want to release it
fearing it would have a weak turnout at the box office.  They finally were
able to release the movie in Mexico last year and were given the estimate
that AT MOST 10,000 people would view it.  More than 1/2 a million people
have seen this movie thus far, and it has held the #1 spot in the box offices
in Mexico.
	As mentioned before, it has a high content of Nahuatl.  It has gotten
rave reviews which clearly do the film justice.  If anyone has the
opportunity to see it, do not pass it up.  For more information you can
contact the print source:

	Storm Entertainment
	225 Santa Monica Blvd.
	Santa Monica, CA 90401
	Tel. (310) 656-2500
	Fax (310) 656-2510
	E-mail:	storment95 at aol.com

	Anel Marchan
	University of Illinois at Chicago 	


>Tiahui,

>If you would like to see a description of "The Other Conquest" (La Otra
>Conquista) go to the web site: chicagolatinocinema.org and follow the link to
>the 15th Annual Film Festival.
>Here in Chicago the movie has received very favorable reviews and although I
>have not personally seen it I can only offer the comments from a local movie
>critic "Roger Ebert" who stated that the movie depicts the other conquest
which
>is the Spaniards goal of total domination of the Mexika spiritual world and
>subsequent replacement with Spanish "Catholic Values". I contacted the film
>distributors for inquiries about a possible video purchase. They have no
>immediate plans for video or wide scale screen showing in the U.S.

>Tlazohkamati,

>Tekpatltzin


> Ehecatecolotl wrote:

> Perhaps a bit tardy on my posting but you might find it interesting. There's
> a movie of recent release. The title in Spanish is La Otra Conquista. It was
> produced by Placido Domingo and it has the most abundant nahuatl content in
> any movie I have so far seen. I don't know about its availability abroad
> Mexico and I don't want to go into the details of its ideological content.
> Suffice to say people speak Nahuatl in it. If you have a chance, go see it.
>
> Ehecatecolotl.


From fabian at nuclecu.unam.mx  Mon Apr 26 18:52:08 1999
From: fabian at nuclecu.unam.mx (Fabian E. Pena Arellano)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 12:52:08 -0600
Subject: Question about the nahuatl word "in".
Message-ID: <MON.26.APR.1999.125208.0600.>

 	My name is Fabian Pena and I just suscribed to this discussion
 list.
 	I would like to learn to speak classical nahuatl, and as I wrote
 in the subject line, I have a question about the word "in", usually
 translated into spanish as the articles "la, el, los, las ..."
 	The most of the books I have begun to read to learn nahuatl
 translate, for example, "in cihua:tl" as "the woman", since the authors
 consider "in" as a simple article. On the other hand, since the names in
 nahuatl may be used as verbs also, shouldn't the phrase "in cihua:tl" be
 translated as "the one who is a woman (la que es mujer)"?
 	In Launey's Introduccion a la Lengua y la Literatura Nahuatl there
 is very brief explanation which doesn't clarify to me the the usage of
 "in". What is the exact nature of it?


 	Fabian Pena.


From Genaro.Bugarin at Dartmouth.EDU  Mon Apr 26 19:09:37 1999
From: Genaro.Bugarin at Dartmouth.EDU (Genaro Bugarin)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 13:09:37 -0600
Subject: Question about the nahuatl word "niquixotiz"
Message-ID: <MON.26.APR.1999.130937.0600.>

good day fellows,

really quick,
I would appreciate it if you can help me translate this word.

Niquixotiz

one second of your time, but it is really important to me.

thank you

Genaro B.


From a.perri at pronet.it  Mon Apr 26 19:36:06 1999
From: a.perri at pronet.it (Antonio Perri)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 13:36:06 -0600
Subject: R: Question about the nahuatl word "in".
Message-ID: <MON.26.APR.1999.133606.0600.>

Dear Fabian,
the word "in" in classical nahuatl is a determinative, and in general you
can translate it in english with an article. However, since in classical
nahuatl almost every word can be use as a predicate (as you can appreciate
if you think that it is possible to say, e.g., ni-ciuatl, "I (am) a woman"),
it follows that you can fin it use with a verb: in this sense, it is true
that "in ciuatl" could be translated as "the one (who is) a woman". In any
case, the use of "in" always gives a predicate an almost "nominal" value,
since it determines it as a whole denotatum rather than as a process:
consider, e.g. the difference between, say, (ca) in tlacatl tlatoani, "the
man is (bel to be) a king (lit. an orator)" and, in tlacatl, in tlatoani,
"the man, the one (who) is a king". In "Une grammaire omnipr?dicative",
Launey describes the "in" as a mark of "actancialisation", i.e. a word wich
tends to transform a predicate into an "argument" either verbal or nominal,
in a given sentence (cfr. pp. 59, where he explicitly says that "la
determination par in... a 'ailleurs pour effet 'empecher toute
interpretation predicative".
I apologize for my Eglish, which is perhaps even poorer than my classical
nahuatl. If you have any further question, please write an I'll try to
provide a suitable answer.

Antonio Perri
-----Messaggio originale-----
Da: Fabian E. Pena Arellano <fabian at nuclecu.unam.mx>
A: Multiple recipients of list <nahuat-l at server.umt.edu>
Data: luned? 26 aprile 1999 21.59
Oggetto: Question about the nahuatl word "in".


>
>
> My name is Fabian Pena and I just suscribed to this discussion
> list.
> I would like to learn to speak classical nahuatl, and as I wrote
> in the subject line, I have a question about the word "in", usually
> translated into spanish as the articles "la, el, los, las ..."
> The most of the books I have begun to read to learn nahuatl
> translate, for example, "in cihua:tl" as "the woman", since the authors
> consider "in" as a simple article. On the other hand, since the names in
> nahuatl may be used as verbs also, shouldn't the phrase "in cihua:tl" be
> translated as "the one who is a woman (la que es mujer)"?
> In Launey's Introduccion a la Lengua y la Literatura Nahuatl there
> is very brief explanation which doesn't clarify to me the the usage of
> "in". What is the exact nature of it?
>
>
> Fabian Pena.
>
>


From Ian.Robertson at asu.edu  Mon Apr 26 20:14:36 1999
From: Ian.Robertson at asu.edu (Ian.Robertson at asu.edu)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 14:14:36 -0600
Subject: Question about the nahuatl word "niquixotiz"
Message-ID: <MON.26.APR.1999.141436.0600.>

Genaro,

I think that niquixotiz (Niqui:xo:ti:z) means 'I will care for, look after
he/she/it'

Cheers, Ian

Ian G. Robertson
Department of Anthropology
Arizona State University
Tempe, AZ 85287-2402
Ian.Robertson at asu.edu


From Genaro.Bugarin at Dartmouth.EDU  Tue Apr 27 02:15:20 1999
From: Genaro.Bugarin at Dartmouth.EDU (Genaro Bugarin)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 20:15:20 -0600
Subject: Question about the nahuatl word "niquixotiz"
Message-ID: <MON.26.APR.1999.201520.0600.>

--- You wrote:
Genaro,

I think that niquixotiz (Niqui:xo:ti:z) means 'I will care for, =
look after
he/she/it'

Cheers, Ian

Ian G. Robertson
Department of Anthropology
Arizona State University
Tempe, AZ 85287-2402
Ian.Robertson at asu.edu
--- end of quote ---
Ian,
	I thank you for your resoponse and time in answering my email, =
that minute of your time saved lots of time and energy on my part.

If I can be of any assistance to you at any time, do not hesitate.

Genaro Bugarin
Dartmouth College
4858 Hinman
Hanover, NH 03755
genaro.bugarin at dartmouth.edu


From daphni at voicenet.com  Tue Apr 27 21:09:36 1999
From: daphni at voicenet.com (Wanda Schwandt)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 15:09:36 -0600
Subject: museum
Message-ID: <TUE.27.APR.1999.150936.0600.>

Everyone,

First, thanks for the Nahautl names, they are a help!

Another question for the children's book I am writing:
I am trying to get ahold of a floor plan for the National Anthropology
Museum. I visited there in 1975 but no doubt it has changed! Any
information on the museum including the floor plan would be helpful! I
don't want my information to be wrong.

I tried to get on their web page, but unfortunately I do not speak
Spanish. I wish I learned when I had the chance.

If any one can help me, e-mail me privately and I'll give you my
address or send a SASE.

Thank you! Thank you!

Best regards,
 Wanda                            mailto:daphni at voicenet.com


From fabian at nuclecu.unam.mx  Wed Apr 28 19:50:00 1999
From: fabian at nuclecu.unam.mx (Fabian E. Pena Arellano)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 13:50:00 -0600
Subject: Question about the length of the vowels in nahuatl.
Message-ID: <WED.28.APR.1999.135000.0600.>

	As probably every beginner in the learning of the nahuatl
language, I am surprised and confused for the variety of different
ortografical systems there are to write the nahuatl.
	This time I am particularly interested about the wrinting of the
long vowels. Angerl Mria Garibay, in his "Lave del Nahuatl", never
indicates the length of the vowels. On the other hand, Michel Luney, in
his "Introduccion a la Lengua y a la Literatura Nahuatl" always does. Why
does this difference exists?
	As far as I understand, we may clasificate the languages as
quantitative and non-qunatitative (Gili Gaya, "Fonetica General", p.47).
The first are the ones in which the difference in the length of a vowel
in a word may produce a semantic opposition, that is, depending of the
length of a vowel a word may have different meanings. The latter are the
ones in which it does not matter how long the vowels are, there will not
be confusion about the meaning of a word. In such languages the length of
a vowel depends on the accent, and the nature and number of sounds which
compose the syllabe; the length is completely determined by fonetical
factors rather to the semantics of the word.
	According to Launey, there are not many pairs in nahuatl which may
cause confusion; he names such couples as minimun pairs ("Introduccion a
la Luengua y la la ....", p344, 1a. ed., UNAM). If such minimum pairs are
so few, what is the need to express them explicity in the wrinting?
	I thenk you for your answer before hand.

	Fabian Pena.


From mmccaffe at indiana.edu  Thu Apr 29 12:30:42 1999
From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael Mccafferty)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 06:30:42 -0600
Subject: Question about the length of the vowels in nahuatl.
Message-ID: <THU.29.APR.1999.063042.0600.>

Mr. Pena-Arellano,

Here's the thing.

Vowel length *is* contrastive in Nahuatl as is it is in other native
American languages.  In Unami, for example, there are even long
*consonants*.

However, since long vowels were not contrastive in the languages of the
Europeans who first recorded all these languages, they rarely received any
special notation.  Miami-Illinois, a Central Algonquian language, has
*highly* contrastive short and long vowels, and yet the early Jesuits who
recorded this language *never* heard it, although one cannot doubt that
comical events occurred in their efforts to use the language.

I learned Classical Nahuatl without paying attention to vowel length,
except for those few well-known words like /toka/ and /to:ka/, things like
that.  It seems that the trend in Nahuatl studies is to take the vowel
lengths in the entire corpus of the language more seriously.


Best regards,

Michael McCafferty



==========================================================

"Across the Rio Grande-o
 across the lazy river..."


                    -Robert Hunter


Michael McCafferty
C.E.L.T.
307 Memorial Hall
Indiana University
Bloomington, Indiana
47405
mmccaffe at indiana.edu


From robc at csufresno.edu  Thu Apr 29 15:04:56 1999
From: robc at csufresno.edu (Robert G. Comegys)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 09:04:56 -0600
Subject: Nahuatl Experts/Expertos en Nahuátl
Message-ID: <THU.29.APR.1999.090456.0600.>

Dear Nahuat-l Group,

My brother and I have identified as Nahuatl an otherwise European
looking document and
would like to have our translation of the very odd spelling and
paleography checked by
an expert with sterling academic credentials. Who are the very best
experts in nahuatl? And how
can they be contacted? Thank you for your assistance with this. John
Comegys

Estimado grupo de nahuateros,

Mi hermano y yo lo hemos identificado como nahuatl un documento que de
otra parte parece
de Europa y quisi?ramos haber nuestro trasducci?n de la ortograf?a muy
raro y paliograf?a
rech?quiado por un experto en nahu?tal con cartas credenciales
acad?micas alt?simas. ?Quienes
son los m?s mejor expertos en nahuatl? ?Y como podemos les contactar?
Gracias para su asistencia.
John Comegys


From a.perri at pronet.it  Thu Apr 29 21:01:51 1999
From: a.perri at pronet.it (Antonio Perri)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 15:01:51 -0600
Subject: Aztec writing - Program of the second day of "XXI Convegno
 Internazionale di Americanistica": "Codice,
 glifo e interpretazione: la scrittura mesoamericana"
Message-ID: <THU.29.APR.1999.150151.0600.>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_002C_01BE9294.6B1B02E0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

CENTRO STUDI AMERICANISTICI
"Circolo Amerindiano"





XXI CONVEGNO INTERNAZIONALE DI AMERICANISTICA

7-9 maggio 1999

Perugia

SALA DEL CONSIGLIO, PALAZZO DELLA PROVINCIA

Piazza Italia



in collaborazione con
Sezione antropologica del Dipartimento Uomo e Territorio, Universit=E0 =
degli Studi di Perugia-Azienda di Promozione Turistica di Perugia

e con il patrocinio di:
Ambasciata del Messico in Italia, Istituto Italo-Latinoamericano, Comune =
di
Perugia, Provincia di Perugia, Regione dell'Umbria






sabato, 8 maggio 1999

Presiede: Tullio Seppilli


Sessione monografica

"Codice, glifo e interpretazione: la scrittura mesoamericana"

Saluto dell'Ambasciatore del Messico Mario Moya Palencia

La Semiotica e la scrittura mesoamericana.

Paolo Fabbri (Universit=E0 di Bologna) : Trasposizioni

L'impatto delle scritture glifiche nell'immaginario europeo

Anne Marie Wohrer (C.I.F.E.I.T., Paris), Encuentro de los Espanoles con =
las escrituras indigenas del M=E9xico central en el siglo XVI

Roberto Pellerey (Universit=E0 di Genova), Glifi e lingue perfette nella
cultura europea del Cinque e Seicento: la tradizione ideogrammatica e la =
nozione di carattere

*  Il metodo e la semiotica

Joaquin Galarza (CNRS, Paris / Benemerita Universidad Autonoma de =
Puebla), La parola fiorita

Antonio Perri (Universit=E0 di Bologna), Verso un modello semiotico per =
lo studio della scrittura azteca

Alfredo Cid Jurado (Universit=E0 di Bologna), La unidad minima en las
escrituras mesoamericanas y la construccion de paradigmas  como linea de =
interpretacion


Sabato 8 maggio ore 15.00


Presiede:

Alfredo Cid Jurado


* I codici come fonti di studio

Claudio Esteva Fabregat (Universidad de Barcelona), Los Codices
prehispanicos como textos etnograficos

* Studi applicativi

Emily Umberger (Arizona State University), Reading hieroglyphs on aztec =
monuments

Martine Simonin (C.N.R.S., Paris), Lienzo mixteco III y Mapa n. 36:
analogias y diferencias

Hilda Aguirre Beltran (C.I.E.S.A.S., M=3DE9xico), Parametros plasticos =
para el seguimiento de lectura del Lienzo de Cuauquecholac

Luz Maria Mohar (C.I.E.S.A.S, M=E9xico) El Mapa Quinatzin, un ejemplo de =
Diccionario de glifos y elementos del Proyecto Machiyotl

Jean-Fran=E7ois Genotte (Universi=E9 Paris I - Panth=E9on Sorbonne), Il =
contenuto religioso pittografico della Mapa de Otumba, manoscritto =
indigeno del XVI secolo

* Ricerche in corso

Jorgen Stowasser - Hoedl (Universit=E0 di Vienna),  L'informatica e lo =
studio delle scritture mesoamericane.

Laura Laurencich Minelli (Universit=E0 di Bologna), Descrizione =
autoptica e osservazioni al microscopio e alla lampada di Wood  del =
codice Cospi.

Maria Martinelli - Laura Laurencich Minelli (Universit=E0 di Bologna), =
La
cosmologia azteca attraverso le carte 17 e 18 del Codice VaticanoB

Alessia Frassani - Laura Laurencich Minelli (Universit=E0 di Bologna):
Elementi di comunicazione e applicazione dell'etnologia alla lettura del =
Codice Vaticano B







Coordinamento generale: Laura Lepore
Responsabili della segreteria: Carlotta Bagaglia, Thea Rossi

Informazioni:
Centro Studi Americanistici "Circolo Amerindiano"
tel. segr. e fax. (++) 39- 075 5720716

e-mail: laural at unipg.it

Laura Lepore
via Cantamerlo, 11
0610O PERUGIA

tel e fax:   (++39) - 075- 5735669


Istituto di etnologia e antropologia culturale
Universit=E0 degli Studi
via dell'Aquilone, 7
06100 PERUGIA - ITALIA
tel: (++39) - 075- 5853830
fax: (++) - 075 - 5853831
e-mail: ieacusp at unipg.it



------=_NextPart_000_002C_01BE9294.6B1B02E0
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 =
HTML//EN"><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.71.1712.3"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>CENTRO STUDI AMERICANISTICI<BR>&quot;Circolo=20
Amerindiano&quot;<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>XXI CONVEGNO INTERNAZIONALE DI=20
AMERICANISTICA<BR><BR>7-9 maggio 1999<BR><BR>Perugia<BR><BR>SALA DEL =
CONSIGLIO,=20
PALAZZO DELLA PROVINCIA<BR><BR>Piazza Italia<BR><BR><BR><BR>in =
collaborazione=20
con<BR>Sezione antropologica del Dipartimento Uomo e Territorio,=20
Universit&agrave; degli Studi di Perugia-Azienda di Promozione Turistica =
di=20
Perugia<BR><BR>e con il patrocinio di:<BR>Ambasciata del Messico in =
Italia,=20
Istituto Italo-Latinoamericano, Comune di<BR>Perugia, Provincia di =
Perugia,=20
Regione dell'Umbria<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>sabato, 8 maggio=20
1999<BR><BR>Presiede: Tullio Seppilli<BR><BR><BR>Sessione=20
monografica<BR><BR>&quot;Codice, glifo e interpretazione: la scrittura=20
mesoamericana&quot;<BR><BR>Saluto dell'Ambasciatore del Messico Mario =
Moya=20
Palencia<BR><BR>La Semiotica e la scrittura mesoamericana.<BR><BR>Paolo =
Fabbri=20
(Universit&agrave; di Bologna) : Trasposizioni<BR><BR>L'impatto delle =
scritture=20
glifiche nell'immaginario europeo<BR><BR>Anne Marie Wohrer =
(C.I.F.E.I.T.,=20
Paris), Encuentro de los Espanoles con las escrituras indigenas del=20
M&eacute;xico central en el siglo XVI<BR><BR>Roberto Pellerey =
(Universit&agrave;=20
di Genova), Glifi e lingue perfette nella<BR>cultura europea del Cinque =
e=20
Seicento: la tradizione ideogrammatica e la nozione di =
carattere<BR><BR>*&nbsp;=20
Il metodo e la semiotica<BR><BR>Joaquin Galarza (CNRS, Paris / =
Benemerita=20
Universidad Autonoma de Puebla), La parola fiorita<BR><BR>Antonio Perri=20
(Universit&agrave; di Bologna), Verso un modello semiotico per lo studio =
della=20
scrittura azteca<BR><BR>Alfredo Cid Jurado (Universit&agrave; di =
Bologna), La=20
unidad minima en las<BR>escrituras mesoamericanas y la construccion de=20
paradigmas&nbsp; como linea de interpretacion<BR><BR><BR>Sabato 8 maggio =
ore=20
15.00<BR><BR><BR>Presiede:<BR><BR>Alfredo Cid Jurado<BR><BR><BR>* I =
codici come=20
fonti di studio<BR><BR>Claudio Esteva Fabregat (Universidad de =
Barcelona), Los=20
Codices<BR>prehispanicos como textos etnograficos<BR><BR>* Studi=20
applicativi<BR><BR>Emily Umberger (Arizona State University), Reading=20
hieroglyphs on aztec monuments<BR><BR>Martine Simonin (C.N.R.S., Paris), =
Lienzo=20
mixteco III y Mapa n. 36:<BR>analogias y diferencias<BR><BR>Hilda =
Aguirre=20
Beltran (C.I.E.S.A.S., M=3DE9xico), Parametros plasticos para el =
seguimiento de=20
lectura del Lienzo de Cuauquecholac<BR><BR>Luz Maria Mohar (C.I.E.S.A.S, =

M&eacute;xico) El Mapa Quinatzin, un ejemplo de Diccionario de glifos y=20
elementos del Proyecto Machiyotl<BR><BR>Jean-Fran&ccedil;ois Genotte=20
(Universi&eacute; Paris I - Panth&eacute;on Sorbonne), Il contenuto =
religioso=20
pittografico della Mapa de Otumba, manoscritto indigeno del XVI =
secolo<BR><BR>*=20
Ricerche in corso<BR><BR>Jorgen Stowasser - Hoedl (Universit&agrave; di=20
Vienna),&nbsp; L'informatica e lo studio delle scritture=20
mesoamericane.<BR><BR>Laura Laurencich Minelli (Universit&agrave; di =
Bologna),=20
Descrizione autoptica e osservazioni al microscopio e alla lampada di =
Wood&nbsp;=20
del codice Cospi.<BR><BR>Maria Martinelli - Laura Laurencich Minelli=20
(Universit&agrave; di Bologna), La<BR>cosmologia azteca attraverso le =
carte 17 e=20
18 del Codice VaticanoB<BR><BR>Alessia Frassani - Laura Laurencich =
Minelli=20
(Universit&agrave; di Bologna):<BR>Elementi di comunicazione e =
applicazione=20
dell'etnologia alla lettura del Codice Vaticano=20
B<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>Coordinamento generale: Laura=20
Lepore<BR>Responsabili della segreteria: Carlotta Bagaglia, Thea=20
Rossi<BR><BR>Informazioni:<BR>Centro Studi Americanistici &quot;Circolo=20
Amerindiano&quot;<BR>tel. segr. e fax. (++) 39- 075 =
5720716<BR><BR>e-mail: <A=20
href=3D"mailto:laural at unipg.it">laural at unipg.it</A><BR><BR>Laura =
Lepore<BR>via=20
Cantamerlo, 11<BR>0610O PERUGIA<BR><BR>tel e fax:&nbsp;&nbsp; (++39) - =
075-=20
5735669<BR><BR><BR>Istituto di etnologia e antropologia=20
culturale<BR>Universit&agrave; degli Studi<BR>via dell'Aquilone, =
7<BR>06100=20
PERUGIA - ITALIA<BR>tel: (++39) - 075- 5853830<BR>fax: (++) - 075 -=20
5853831<BR>e-mail: <A=20
href=3D"mailto:ieacusp at unipg.it">ieacusp at unipg.it</A><BR><BR></DIV></BODY=
></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_002C_01BE9294.6B1B02E0--


From a.perri at pronet.it  Thu Apr 29 21:05:36 1999
From: a.perri at pronet.it (Antonio Perri)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 15:05:36 -0600
Subject: Aztec writing - Program of the second day of "XXI Convegno
 Internazionale di Americanistica": "Codice,
 glifo e interpretazione: la scrittura mesoamericana"
Message-ID: <THU.29.APR.1999.150536.0600.>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0037_01BE9294.B236BF20
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

CENTRO STUDI AMERICANISTICI
"Circolo Amerindiano"





XXI CONVEGNO INTERNAZIONALE DI AMERICANISTICA

7-9 maggio 1999

Perugia

SALA DEL CONSIGLIO, PALAZZO DELLA PROVINCIA

Piazza Italia



in collaborazione con
Sezione antropologica del Dipartimento Uomo e Territorio, Universit=E0 =
degli Studi di Perugia-Azienda di Promozione Turistica di Perugia

e con il patrocinio di:
Ambasciata del Messico in Italia, Istituto Italo-Latinoamericano, Comune =
di
Perugia, Provincia di Perugia, Regione dell'Umbria






sabato, 8 maggio 1999

Presiede: Tullio Seppilli


Sessione monografica

"Codice, glifo e interpretazione: la scrittura mesoamericana"

Saluto dell'Ambasciatore del Messico Mario Moya Palencia

La Semiotica e la scrittura mesoamericana.

Paolo Fabbri (Universit=E0 di Bologna) : Trasposizioni

L'impatto delle scritture glifiche nell'immaginario europeo

Anne Marie Wohrer (C.I.F.E.I.T., Paris), Encuentro de los Espanoles con =
las escrituras indigenas del M=E9xico central en el siglo XVI

Roberto Pellerey (Universit=E0 di Genova), Glifi e lingue perfette nella
cultura europea del Cinque e Seicento: la tradizione ideogrammatica e la =
nozione di carattere

*  Il metodo e la semiotica

Joaquin Galarza (CNRS, Paris / Benemerita Universidad Autonoma de =
Puebla), La parola fiorita

Antonio Perri (Universit=E0 di Bologna), Verso un modello semiotico per =
lo studio della scrittura azteca

Alfredo Cid Jurado (Universit=E0 di Bologna), La unidad minima en las
escrituras mesoamericanas y la construccion de paradigmas  como linea de =
interpretacion


Sabato 8 maggio ore 15.00


Presiede:

Alfredo Cid Jurado


* I codici come fonti di studio

Claudio Esteva Fabregat (Universidad de Barcelona), Los Codices
prehispanicos como textos etnograficos

* Studi applicativi

Emily Umberger (Arizona State University), Reading hieroglyphs on aztec =
monuments

Martine Simonin (C.N.R.S., Paris), Lienzo mixteco III y Mapa n. 36:
analogias y diferencias

Hilda Aguirre Beltran (C.I.E.S.A.S., M=3DE9xico), Parametros plasticos =
para el seguimiento de lectura del Lienzo de Cuauquecholac

Luz Maria Mohar (C.I.E.S.A.S, M=E9xico) El Mapa Quinatzin, un ejemplo de =
Diccionario de glifos y elementos del Proyecto Machiyotl

Jean-Fran=E7ois Genotte (Universi=E9 Paris I - Panth=E9on Sorbonne), Il =
contenuto religioso pittografico della Mapa de Otumba, manoscritto =
indigeno del XVI secolo

* Ricerche in corso

Jorgen Stowasser - Hoedl (Universit=E0 di Vienna),  L'informatica e lo =
studio delle scritture mesoamericane.

Laura Laurencich Minelli (Universit=E0 di Bologna), Descrizione =
autoptica e osservazioni al microscopio e alla lampada di Wood  del =
codice Cospi.

Maria Martinelli - Laura Laurencich Minelli (Universit=E0 di Bologna), =
La
cosmologia azteca attraverso le carte 17 e 18 del Codice VaticanoB

Alessia Frassani - Laura Laurencich Minelli (Universit=E0 di Bologna):
Elementi di comunicazione e applicazione dell'etnologia alla lettura del =
Codice Vaticano B







Coordinamento generale: Laura Lepore
Responsabili della segreteria: Carlotta Bagaglia, Thea Rossi

Informazioni:
Centro Studi Americanistici "Circolo Amerindiano"
tel. segr. e fax. (++) 39- 075 5720716

e-mail: laural at unipg.it

Laura Lepore
via Cantamerlo, 11
0610O PERUGIA

tel e fax:   (++39) - 075- 5735669


Istituto di etnologia e antropologia culturale
Universit=E0 degli Studi
via dell'Aquilone, 7
06100 PERUGIA - ITALIA
tel: (++39) - 075- 5853830
fax: (++) - 075 - 5853831
e-mail: ieacusp at unipg.it



------=_NextPart_000_0037_01BE9294.B236BF20
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 =
HTML//EN"><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN"><!DOCTYPE HTML =
PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.71.1712.3"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>CENTRO STUDI AMERICANISTICI<BR>&quot;Circolo=20
Amerindiano&quot;<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>XXI CONVEGNO INTERNAZIONALE DI=20
AMERICANISTICA<BR><BR>7-9 maggio 1999<BR><BR>Perugia<BR><BR>SALA DEL =
CONSIGLIO,=20
PALAZZO DELLA PROVINCIA<BR><BR>Piazza Italia<BR><BR><BR><BR>in =
collaborazione=20
con<BR>Sezione antropologica del Dipartimento Uomo e Territorio,=20
Universit&agrave; degli Studi di Perugia-Azienda di Promozione Turistica =
di=20
Perugia<BR><BR>e con il patrocinio di:<BR>Ambasciata del Messico in =
Italia,=20
Istituto Italo-Latinoamericano, Comune di<BR>Perugia, Provincia di =
Perugia,=20
Regione dell'Umbria<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>sabato, 8 maggio=20
1999<BR><BR>Presiede: Tullio Seppilli<BR><BR><BR>Sessione=20
monografica<BR><BR>&quot;Codice, glifo e interpretazione: la scrittura=20
mesoamericana&quot;<BR><BR>Saluto dell'Ambasciatore del Messico Mario =
Moya=20
Palencia<BR><BR>La Semiotica e la scrittura mesoamericana.<BR><BR>Paolo =
Fabbri=20
(Universit&agrave; di Bologna) : Trasposizioni<BR><BR>L'impatto delle =
scritture=20
glifiche nell'immaginario europeo<BR><BR>Anne Marie Wohrer =
(C.I.F.E.I.T.,=20
Paris), Encuentro de los Espanoles con las escrituras indigenas del=20
M&eacute;xico central en el siglo XVI<BR><BR>Roberto Pellerey =
(Universit&agrave;=20
di Genova), Glifi e lingue perfette nella<BR>cultura europea del Cinque =
e=20
Seicento: la tradizione ideogrammatica e la nozione di =
carattere<BR><BR>*&nbsp;=20
Il metodo e la semiotica<BR><BR>Joaquin Galarza (CNRS, Paris / =
Benemerita=20
Universidad Autonoma de Puebla), La parola fiorita<BR><BR>Antonio Perri=20
(Universit&agrave; di Bologna), Verso un modello semiotico per lo studio =
della=20
scrittura azteca<BR><BR>Alfredo Cid Jurado (Universit&agrave; di =
Bologna), La=20
unidad minima en las<BR>escrituras mesoamericanas y la construccion de=20
paradigmas&nbsp; como linea de interpretacion<BR><BR><BR>Sabato 8 maggio =
ore=20
15.00<BR><BR><BR>Presiede:<BR><BR>Alfredo Cid Jurado<BR><BR><BR>* I =
codici come=20
fonti di studio<BR><BR>Claudio Esteva Fabregat (Universidad de =
Barcelona), Los=20
Codices<BR>prehispanicos como textos etnograficos<BR><BR>* Studi=20
applicativi<BR><BR>Emily Umberger (Arizona State University), Reading=20
hieroglyphs on aztec monuments<BR><BR>Martine Simonin (C.N.R.S., Paris), =
Lienzo=20
mixteco III y Mapa n. 36:<BR>analogias y diferencias<BR><BR>Hilda =
Aguirre=20
Beltran (C.I.E.S.A.S., M=3DE9xico), Parametros plasticos para el =
seguimiento de=20
lectura del Lienzo de Cuauquecholac<BR><BR>Luz Maria Mohar (C.I.E.S.A.S, =

M&eacute;xico) El Mapa Quinatzin, un ejemplo de Diccionario de glifos y=20
elementos del Proyecto Machiyotl<BR><BR>Jean-Fran&ccedil;ois Genotte=20
(Universi&eacute; Paris I - Panth&eacute;on Sorbonne), Il contenuto =
religioso=20
pittografico della Mapa de Otumba, manoscritto indigeno del XVI =
secolo<BR><BR>*=20
Ricerche in corso<BR><BR>Jorgen Stowasser - Hoedl (Universit&agrave; di=20
Vienna),&nbsp; L'informatica e lo studio delle scritture=20
mesoamericane.<BR><BR>Laura Laurencich Minelli (Universit&agrave; di =
Bologna),=20
Descrizione autoptica e osservazioni al microscopio e alla lampada di =
Wood&nbsp;=20
del codice Cospi.<BR><BR>Maria Martinelli - Laura Laurencich Minelli=20
(Universit&agrave; di Bologna), La<BR>cosmologia azteca attraverso le =
carte 17 e=20
18 del Codice VaticanoB<BR><BR>Alessia Frassani - Laura Laurencich =
Minelli=20
(Universit&agrave; di Bologna):<BR>Elementi di comunicazione e =
applicazione=20
dell'etnologia alla lettura del Codice Vaticano=20
B<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>Coordinamento generale: Laura=20
Lepore<BR>Responsabili della segreteria: Carlotta Bagaglia, Thea=20
Rossi<BR><BR>Informazioni:<BR>Centro Studi Americanistici &quot;Circolo=20
Amerindiano&quot;<BR>tel. segr. e fax. (++) 39- 075 =
5720716<BR><BR>e-mail: <A=20
href=3D"mailto:laural at unipg.it">laural at unipg.it</A><BR><BR>Laura =
Lepore<BR>via=20
Cantamerlo, 11<BR>0610O PERUGIA<BR><BR>tel e fax:&nbsp;&nbsp; (++39) - =
075-=20
5735669<BR><BR><BR>Istituto di etnologia e antropologia=20
culturale<BR>Universit&agrave; degli Studi<BR>via dell'Aquilone, =
7<BR>06100=20
PERUGIA - ITALIA<BR>tel: (++39) - 075- 5853830<BR>fax: (++) - 075 -=20
5853831<BR>e-mail: <A=20
href=3D"mailto:ieacusp at unipg.it">ieacusp at unipg.it</A><BR><BR></DIV></BODY=
></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0037_01BE9294.B236BF20--