some doubts

[R. Joe Campbell]

On Sun, 14 Nov 1999, Leonel Hermida wrote:

> 4. Here I'd welcome a litteral translation (as far as possible):
>=20
> "Manca in atl oncan temia in cocoa ihuan in cueyame
> ihuan in yehuantin motenehua Mazateca oncan quintoloaya
> in cocoa zan yoyoltihuia".
>=20
> is 'manca' a pluperfect of 'mani' (put)?
> does 'oncan' mean 'there'? or has other meaning?
> is temia the causative of 'temi'=3D fill up ?
   I think you're right on this -- a pluperfect of "mani", used as a
simple past (which is the case with a few other Nahuatl verbs).  A good
way to think of the semantic content of "mani" is 'lie flat and spread out
like a puddle of water'; the causative form "mana" is connected with
laying out offerings and is generalized as 'put'. =20
   Yes on "oncan" 'there'.
   "temia" is the imperfect (temi-ya) -- intransitive and with the
unpronounced /y/.

Best regards,

Joe

As they say in the commercials, "We'll be right back, but in the meantime,
here are all the "manca" occurrences in the FC.  [see next message]





=20
manca**
=20
1. ca miec tlamantli yaoyotl, nican *manca*, in nueva espa=A4a,
     in oc ipan tlateotoquiliztli: miecpa, mayanaloya, miecpa
     cocoliztli momanaya, ic micohuaya..
      there were many wars in new spain when there still was
     idolatry; frequent famine, frequent pestilence were widespread;
     thus there was dying. (b.1 f.4 p.65).=20
=20
2. auh no yehuanti, in iyaohuan altepetl, tlatepotzca, inin
     ca *manca* teoatl, tlachinolli, quimonnotzaya ichtaca,
     hualichtacacalaquia, in icohuahuan moteuczoma: in nonohualca,
     cozcateca, cempoalteca, mecateca,.
      and also from cities which were his enemies, from beyond
     [the mountains] those with which there was war, moctezuma
     secretly, summoned, secretly admitted as his guests the
     nonoalca, the cozcateca, the cempoallans, the mecateca.
     (b.2 f.1 p.55).=20
=20
3. auh in oacito atenco, in innealtiaya tlamacazque: nauhcampa
     in *manca* in ayauhcalli,.
      and when they went reaching the water's edge, the offering
     priests' bathing place, the mist houses were at the cardinal
     points. (b.2 f.4 p.81).=20
=20
4. in oncan maltiaya in, tlanepantla *manca* in cuenmantli:.
      where they bathed, in the midst of things were poles.
     (b.2 f.4 p.82).=20
=20
5. ixpan *manca* in atl,.
      before it was [a pool of] water. (b.2 f.11 p.177).=20
=20
6. auh nehuan *manca* in ical catca tlaloc,.
      and with it was the house of tlaloc. (b.2 f.11 p.178).=20
=20
7. huel nehuan *manca*, huel netech zaliuhtimanca:.
      they were indeed together; they were indeed joined to
     each other. (b.2 f.11 p.178).=20
=20
8. auh in icpac cecentetl teocalli, in icpac *manca* calli:.
      and at the top of each was a temple; at the top was a
     house. (b.2 f.11 p.178).=20
=20
9. in aquin ye tlatoz, zan oncan *manca* in copalli xicaltica:.
      for whoever already was to speak, just there lay the incense
     in a gourd vessel. (b.2 f.12 p.195).=20
=20
10. ca nohuiyan cecentetl *manca*, in cihuateocalli, cecentlaxilacalpan
     oncan in omaxac,.
      for in every single place stood a temple of goddesses,
     in each neighborhood, there at crossroads. (b.4 f.4 p.41).=20
=20
11. in cuappetlapan, in ocelopetlapan oyeco, in oimmac *manca*
     in cuappiaztli, in cuauhxicalli, in ocuauhyacanque, in
     ocatlitique in tonatiuh in tlalteuctli:.
      they came exercising military command; in their hands
     rested the eagle tube, the eagle vessel; they led the eagle
     warriors; they provided drink for the sun, for tlaltecutli.
     (b.6 f.9 p.106).=20
=20
12. ihuan ipan mochiuh in huei mayanaliztli, nauhxihuitl in
     *manca*.
      and in his reign there came a great famine, which spread
     over the land for four years. (b.8 f.1 p.2).=20
=20
13. ipan mochiuh mayanaliztli oxihuitl in *manca* in aocmo quiahuia,.
      ln his reign there came a famine; for two years it spread
     over the land, during which it rained no more. (b.8 f.1
     p.3).=20
=20
14. ihuan ipan mochiuh, onteme cuacuauhti cuauhcalco *manca*
     no manca in oncan tlatilolco.
      and in his time it happened that two eagles were in separate
     wooden cages there in tlatilulco. (b.8 f.1 p.8).=20
=20
15. ihuan ipan mochiuh, onteme cuacuauhti cuauhcalco manca no
     *manca* in oncan tlatilolco.
      and in his time it happened that two eagles were in separate
     wooden cages there in tlatilulco. (b.8 f.1 p.8).=20
=20
16. auh in itech tlachmatl, ontetl tlachtemalacatl *manca*,.
      and on the walls were two stone, ball court rings. (b.8
     f.2 p.29).=20
=20
17. in quimocuitlahuiaya, in ipan tlatoaya in tianquiztli: ihuan
     ixquich tlanamactli, icecentlamantli tlanamactli, tiamictli,
     ipan *manca*,.
      they cared for, and attended to, the market place and
     all and each of the things sold---the merchandise which
     was there. (b.8 f.4 p.67).=20
=20
18. no ihuan oncatca, in tlayacanque in ipan *manca* acacuahuitl,
     acaiyetl, iyetlalli, huel ocotzoyo, ihuan xochiocotzotl,.
      and also there were proprietors among whom were spread
     out smoking tubes, pipes, and cigars, [some] quite resinous
     and aromatic; (b.8 f.4 p.69).=20
=20
19. ihuan teocuitlatl in ixcuatechimal ixcuac *manca*, ihuan
     inacazpipilol teocuitlatl,.
      and gold was his forehead disc, which rested on his brow;
     and his ear pendants were of gold. (b.9 f.6 p.79).=20
=20
20. ca chicomen *manca* in incalpolco, inic quinmanaya inixiptlahuan
     amanteca:.
      for seven were arranged in their calpulli when the inhabitants
     of amantlan arranged their images. (b.9 f.6 p.83).=20
=20
21. in yehuantin, i, amanteca in incalpol, in incalmecauh: zan
     monetechanaya onteixtin *manca* in incalpol pochteca:.
      the calpulli temple [and] the priestshouse of these inhabitants
     of amantlan extended by, were paired together with, the
     calpulli temple of the merchants. (b.9 f.7 p.88).=20
=20
22. no ihui in inteohuan nehuan *manca* quinnehuanmanaya, quimomemanaya
     in itoca iyacateuctli ihuan coyotl inahual..
      likewise their gods were placed together; they put together,
     placed in twofold division, those named yacatecutli and
     coyotl inaual; (b.9 f.7 p.88).=20
=20
23. calli oncan *manca*..
      houses are there. (b.11 f.24 p.252).=20
=20
24. auh in hueca *manca*, in tehuecapahuiti manca amo micque..
      and those who remained at a distance, those who remained
     going at a distance, did not die. (b.12 f.5 p.78).=20
=20
25. auh in hueca manca, in tehuecapahuiti *manca* amo micque..
      and those who remained at a distance, those who remained
     going at a distance, did not die. (b.12 f.5 p.78).=20
=20
26. ihcuac in *manca* inin totomoniliztli, huel epoalilhuitl,
     epoaltonal in quiz in cuetlan, in neemachoc, in yolihuac:
     ie chalcopa huatztia in totomoniliztli,.
      at this time this plague prevailed indeed sixty days --sixty
     day-signs --when it ended, when it diminished; when it
     was realized, when there was reviving, the plague was already
     going toward chalco. (b.12 f.6 p.82).=20
=20
27. huel cemilhuitl in *manca* yaoyotl..
      Indeed all day did the battle take place. (b.12 f.8 p.116).=20