trying to find the word for...

[micc at home.com]

Frances,

This is a very interesting analysis, especially for me since i am trying
to find the root of macehauliztli, the dance ( as opposed to the more
common understood mi'totiliztli and netotiliztli)


Last year (or was it the year before) I hypothesized that mi'totia came
from  i'toa, but I was proven wrong.  Can you tell me what you believe
is the root of macehua (dancar in Molina) .

thanks!!!

mario e. aguilar
www.aguila-blanca.com

Frances Karttunen wrote:
> 
> >  >please don't think this odd but i collect knives and weapons and was
> >  >wondering what the name for the "aztec sword" is in nahuatl.
> >
> 
> > macehuatl
> >
> Eh?  As several listeros have already pointed out, the word sought is
> ma:ccuahuitl (from ma:c 'hand-locative' plus cuahuitl 'tree, wood, staff,
> stick, or beam.'
> 
> The word ma:ce:hualli  (I am using the colon here to indicate a long vowel)
> is a word often used where Spanish speakers would use 'indio.'  Its basic
> meaning is one who is a subject to someone else.  So Nahuatl-speaking
> commoners identified themselves as ma:ce:hualtin with respect to their lords
> and rulers.
> 
> But by the rules of Nahuatl polite speech, the humble were raised up, while
> the powerful minimized their own importance.  So supreme rulers almost
> always referred to themselves as ma:ce:hualtin and usually
> icno:ma:ce:hualtin 'poor commoners in need of compassion.'  This did not
> fool anyone, of course.  Nor was it self-abasement.  When a ruler
> resplendent in quetzal feathers and golden ear plugs spoke of himself as a
> ma:ce:hualli, he was admired for his rhetorical correctness, and nobody
> dared take any liberties or familiarities with such a proud and all-powerful
> man.
> 
> Once the great lords of preconquest times had been brought low, there was
> gradually less and less distinction between real ma:ce:hualtin and honorific
> ones.  Once everybody had been made subjects of the Spanish king and the
> Christian God, ma:ce:hualli came to mean 'indigenous person' (even used by
> Nahuatl-speakers to refer to other indigenous peoples besides themselves)
> and also 'speaker of Nahuatl.'  Besides Mexicano, another name in use for
> Nahuatl among its speakers is ma:ce:huallahto:lli (< ma:ce:hual- plus
> tlahto:lli 'speech").
> 
> There has been a mistaken etymology of ma:ce:hualli perpetuated through
> studies that haven't taken vowel length and "saltillo" into account, namely
> that one is a ma:ce:hualli because of one's deserving-ness.  This is because
> there is a verb mahce:hualtia: 'to give someone what s/he deserves.'  And
> there is actually a noun mahce:hualli meaning 'merit, recompense.'  But as
> you see, the 'deserving' words have a saltillo in the first syllable where
> the 'subject' words have a long vowel.
> 
> There is another colorful speculation on the root meaning of ma:ce:hualli
> (which I don't personally put any stock in), that it has to do with people
> who dance around in circles with their hands resting on their hips.  This
> etymology makes the word up from ma:- 'hand' and the verb ce:huia: 'to rest
> or relieve something (in this case, one's hands).
> 
> The way I see it, a society that is strictly divided into two parts, a
> ruling elite and a productive body of workers (as Mesoamerican societies
> were) needs a word for the ruling class (pi:piltin) and another for the
> subject people (ma:ce:hualtin), and why should we ask for more arcane
> underlying meanings?
> 
> Frances Karttunen