From fjgs at servidor.unam.mx  Fri Jun  2 03:07:10 2000
From: fjgs at servidor.unam.mx (Ehecatecolotl)
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 21:07:10 -0600
Subject: 1st person honorifics?
Message-ID: <THU.1.JUN.2000.210710.0600.>

<<snip>>
> The books say that using honorifics of oneself in Nahuatl is not done
because
> it would seem too pompous. But are there any examples of it found in the
> literature. perhaps to achieve a special effect? (Chinese has an example:
a
> pronoun pronounced "ching", written by a special character, which could be
> fairly translated as {nehhua:tzin}; only the Emperor was allowed to use
it!)


I understand the honorific used for one´s self is acceptable if the person
is being condescendent to him/herself, conveying the meaning of "poor me,
incapable of such or such deed", therefore, the situation mentioned by
Francestzin applies just fine or when the person is ill, etc.


From tezozomoc at hotmail.com  Fri Jun  2 16:20:06 2000
From: tezozomoc at hotmail.com (Mr. Tezozomoc)
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 09:20:06 PDT
Subject: 1st person honorifics?
Message-ID: <FRI.2.JUN.2000.092006.PDT.>


The nahuatl people did not use it but the friars did certainly pump
themselves up.....

Here is a piece from Fray Juan Gaona's peace and tranquility:

Fray Ioa: de Gaona, sant
Francisco teopixqui, vei teotlatol-
matini.  Auh quinaxcan, occeppa
Yancuican oquimopatili, oquimoc
xitoquili, in cenca mauiztililoni to
tlazotatzin Fray Miguel de zasare
vei teotlatolmatini, yuan Comissa
rio gn~al itechpa in santa cruzada,
nica:ipa:


>From: "Ehecatecolotl" <fjgs at servidor.unam.mx>
>Reply-To: nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu
>To: <nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu>
>Subject: 1st person honorifics?
>Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 21:07:10 -0600
>
><<snip>>
> > The books say that using honorifics of oneself in Nahuatl is not done
>because
> > it would seem too pompous. But are there any examples of it found in the
> > literature. perhaps to achieve a special effect? (Chinese has an
>example:
>a
> > pronoun pronounced "ching", written by a special character, which could
>be
> > fairly translated as {nehhua:tzin}; only the Emperor was allowed to use
>it!)
>
>
>I understand the honorific used for one�s self is acceptable if the person
>is being condescendent to him/herself, conveying the meaning of "poor me,
>incapable of such or such deed", therefore, the situation mentioned by
>Francestzin applies just fine or when the person is ill, etc.
>
>
>
>



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From Amapohuani at aol.com  Fri Jun  2 18:35:49 2000
From: Amapohuani at aol.com (Amapohuani at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 14:35:49 EDT
Subject: 1st person honorifics?
Message-ID: <FRI.2.JUN.2000.143549.EDT.>

Listeros:

Re first person honorifics. The last posting is included at the end of this 
message. 

The citation is from one of the pages just preliminary to page one of fray 
Juan de Gaona's COLLOQVIOS DE la paz, y tranquilidad Christiana, en lengua 
Mexicana (1582, Pedro Ocharte). Fray Miguel de Zarate prepared this edition 
of his deceased colleague.  Zarate (under EXAMEN) twice indicates that he 
"corrected" the original, acting under the orders of the then-provincial of 
the Provincia del Santa Evangelio. Just before page one is a page that begins 
'COLLOQVIOS DE la paz" [etc.] that includes the information that they are 
"agora nueuamente corregidos, y anadidos, y puesta auctoridades, y citados 
los lugares por el muy. R. Padre Fray Miguel de carate" etc. [I leave out 
special characters since they do not go well over cyberspace.] What was cited 
is essentially a loose translation from the Spanish of this page to the 
Nahuatl of the next page where the citation is taken from.

This is standard Nahuatl for the subject matter and not more or less 
honorific than anything else you might encounter in similar texts, or even in 
those done by Nahuas for their own purposes; also see how Chimalpahin writes 
about various clerics. A Nahua or a cleric could have written it - literally, 
since Nahuas helped many times with texts (published or manuscript) and the 
author of record was more of a supervisor than the actual writer per se. In 
this case (see prologue in fray Juan Baptista's sermonario of 1606) we know 
that the trilingual (Latin/Nahuatl/Spanish) Nahua, Hernando de Ribas, who 
helped Molina with his grammar and dictionary, also apparently  helped Gaona 
with this work (called by Baptista "Dialogos" if I am not mistaken). 
Baptista's own extensive corpus was entirely co-authored by Augustin de la 
Fuente, who was also the "corrector de lengua" of fray Juan de Mijanos', OSA, 
ESPEJO DIUINO of 1607. 

In any case this is exactly how people wrote about themselves in such 
situations - not in the first person, but as if they were writing about 
someone else [and it may have been Ribas or some other Nahua who literally 
wrote the cited passage]. It would be an incompetent friar, and an even more 
incompetent Nahua teacher and aide of theirs, who would let any cleric write 
"nehuatzin" or the like. Literally using first-person honorifics in the first 
person would have made any Nahua aide/teacher shudder, and marked the friar 
as lingustically impaired. This brings to mind the passage in the BANCROFT 
DIALOGUES where the priest replies in a flat non-honorific Nahuatl to a 
query, and to Book 12 of the FLORENTINE CODEX where Cortes (through his 
interpreter) speaks in the same way - in a traditional Nahua context, real 
gaffes and marks (from a Nahua-centric point of view) of a complete barbarian 
[with apologies to any who feel I am slamming the barbarians too much].

In general, my take on the friars/clerics who used Nahuatl is that they were 
pretty careful about their use of honorific/reverential forms, perhaps too 
much so at times.

Ye ixquich.
Barry D. Sell  



In a message dated 6/2/00 8:24:45 AM, tezozomoc at hotmail.com writes:

<< The nahuatl people did not use it but the friars did certainly pump 
themselves up.....

Here is a piece from Fray Juan Gaona's peace and tranquility:

Fray Ioa: de Gaona, sant
Francisco teopixqui, vei teotlatol-
matini.  Auh quinaxcan, occeppa
Yancuican oquimopatili, oquimoc
xitoquili, in cenca mauiztililoni to
tlazotatzin Fray Miguel de zasare
vei teotlatolmatini, yuan Comissa
rio gn~al itechpa in santa cruzada,
nica:ipa:


>From: "Ehecatecolotl" <fjgs at servidor.unam.mx>
>Reply-To: nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu
>To: <nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu>
>Subject: 1st person honorifics?
>Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 21:07:10 -0600
>
><<snip>>
> > The books say that using honorifics of oneself in Nahuatl is not done
>because
> > it would seem too pompous. But are there any examples of it found in the
> > literature. perhaps to achieve a special effect? (Chinese has an 
>example:
>a
> > pronoun pronounced "ching", written by a special character, which could 
>be
> > fairly translated as {nehhua:tzin}; only the Emperor was allowed to use
>it!)
>
>
>I understand the honorific used for one´s self is acceptable if the person
>is being condescendent to him/herself, conveying the meaning of "poor me,
>incapable of such or such deed", therefore, the situation mentioned by
>Francestzin applies just fine or when the person is ill, etc. >>


From mdmorris at indiana.edu  Mon Jun  5 14:54:29 2000
From: mdmorris at indiana.edu (Mark David Morris)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 09:54:29 -0500
Subject: Language Families
In-Reply-To: <200005302031.QAA17883@nantucket.net>
Message-ID: <MON.5.JUN.2000.095429.0500.>

With so many good linguists on the list, I hope someone might confirm or
correct my understanding that neither Finnish, Hungarian nor Basque are
Indo-European languages.  Thanks,  Mark Morris



















~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
For with much wisdom comes much sorrow; the more knowledge, the more
grief. Eccl 1:18

To realize that our knowledge is ignorance, this is a noble insight. To
regard our ignorance as knowledge, this is mental sickness.  Only when we
are sick of our sickness, shall we cease to be sick.  The Sage is not
sick, being sick of sickness; This is the secret of health.  TTC 71

MDM, PhD Candidate
Dept. of History, Indiana Univ.


From J.Kremers at let.kun.nl  Mon Jun  5 15:40:42 2000
From: J.Kremers at let.kun.nl (Joost Kremers)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 17:40:42 +0200
Subject: Language Families
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.1000605095132.27886A-100000@lear.ucs.indiana .edu>
Message-ID: <MON.5.JUN.2000.174042.0200.>

At 09:54 5-6-00 -0500, you wrote:
>With so many good linguists on the list, I hope someone might confirm or
>correct my understanding that neither Finnish, Hungarian nor Basque are
>Indo-European languages.  Thanks,  Mark Morris


this, i can confirm. finnish and hungarian are part of the finno-ugric
language family (i.e., they're related, but about as mutually intelligible
as russian and english), and basque is an isolate. some seek ties between
basque and georgian, but AFAIK those ties have not been established.

HTH

joost kremers


--------------------------------------------------------
Joost Kremers (Mr.)
University of Nijmegen - The Netherlands
Department of Languages and Cultures of the Middle-East
PO Box 9103
6500 HD Nijmegen - The Netherlands
phone: +31 24 3612996
fax: +31 24 3611972


From robc at csufresno.edu  Mon Jun  5 16:45:20 2000
From: robc at csufresno.edu (Robert G. Comegys)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 09:45:20 -0700
Subject: Language Families
Message-ID: <MON.5.JUN.2000.094520.0700.>

Hi Mark,

Finnish and Hungarian are Turkish languages, although Hungarian has been
thoroughly saturated with Slavic loan words, something like the way English, a
good Germanic language,  is loaded with French. (My apologies to the Germans,
the French, and the English.)

Basque? Who knows. Its usually considered an isolate by most "responsible"
(read dull and uninteresting) scholars.

Regards,

John Comegys
Mark David Morris wrote:

> With so many good linguists on the list, I hope someone might confirm or
> correct my understanding that neither Finnish, Hungarian nor Basque are
> Indo-European languages.  Thanks,  Mark Morris
>


From mmccaffe at indiana.edu  Mon Jun  5 17:10:41 2000
From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael Mccafferty)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 12:10:41 -0500
Subject: Language Families
In-Reply-To: <393BD91D.4DF34877@csufresno.edu>
Message-ID: <MON.5.JUN.2000.121041.0500.>

On Mon, 5 Jun 2000, Robert G. Comegys wrote:

> Hi Mark,
>
> Finnish and Hungarian are Turkish languages, although Hungarian has been
> thoroughly saturated with Slavic loan words, something like the way English, a
> good Germanic language,  is loaded with French. (My apologies to the Germans,
> the French, and the English.)

Avoue'.
>
> Basque? Who knows. Its usually considered an isolate by most "responsible"
> (read dull and uninteresting) scholars.

John,

Does total lack of evidence imply that the scholars who have looked at the
matter are dull and uninteresting?  Correct me if I have
this wrong, but the Basque are a pre-Indo-European genetic-linguistic
group, ancient european inhabitants, and genetically connected to the
Irish. Who knows? Perhaps, they are also connected to the folks found near
the coast of Virginia in paleo-indian times that were mentioned recently
in the media.


Michael

>
> Regards,
>
> John Comegys
> Mark David Morris wrote:
>
> > With so many good linguists on the list, I hope someone might confirm or
> > correct my understanding that neither Finnish, Hungarian nor Basque are
> > Indo-European languages.  Thanks,  Mark Morris
> >
>
>


Michael McCafferty
307 Memorial Hall
Indiana University
Bloomington, Indiana
47405
mmccaffe at indiana.edu

*******************************************************************************
"So, who you gonna believe,
me or your own eyes?"

              -Chico Marx

*******************************************************************************


From mdmorris at indiana.edu  Mon Jun  5 17:46:52 2000
From: mdmorris at indiana.edu (Mark David Morris)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 12:46:52 -0500
Subject: Language Families
In-Reply-To: <393BD91D.4DF34877@csufresno.edu>
Message-ID: <MON.5.JUN.2000.124652.0500.>

Thank you all for the quick responses.  Now, I can print my footnotes.  I
had it understood from working as a folklore bibliographer for the MLA
that Hungarian and Finnish seem to show influence from Mongolia.  If you
have any quetions about classical Chinese intruments Imight be able to
squirt out a fact or two from the same storage bank.

mochantzinco,

Atlihuetzia Tlaxcala



















~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
For with much wisdom comes much sorrow; the more knowledge, the more
grief. Eccl 1:18

To realize that our knowledge is ignorance, this is a noble insight. To
regard our ignorance as knowledge, this is mental sickness.  Only when we
are sick of our sickness, shall we cease to be sick.  The Sage is not
sick, being sick of sickness; This is the secret of health.  TTC 71

MDM, PhD Candidate
Dept. of History, Indiana Univ.


From juergen.stowasser at univie.ac.at  Mon Jun  5 18:29:46 2000
From: juergen.stowasser at univie.ac.at (Juergen Stowasser)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 20:29:46 +0200
Subject: Language Families
Message-ID: <MON.5.JUN.2000.202946.0200.>

"Robert G. Comegys" schrieb:,

> Finnish and Hungarian are Turkish languages, --

as Joost Kremer already pointed, Finnish and Hungarian belong to the "Finno-Ugric"
language family (together with some smaller languages like Samojedic); the Turk
languages belong - as well as the Mongolic - to the "Altai"-family. Both Turk and
Finno-Ugric are agglutinative languages but I ´ve never heard of a "superfamily"
Finno-Ugric/Altai (but I´m not a linguist so maybe some list member can clear this
up)

                      Ciao, Juergen


Juergen Stowasser
Burggasse 114/2/8
A-1070 Wien - Vien(n)a
Austria
tel: 01/ 524 54 60
0676/ 398 66 79


From TruBluPooh at aol.com  Mon Jun  5 18:18:12 2000
From: TruBluPooh at aol.com (TruBluPooh at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 14:18:12 EDT
Subject: Language Families
Message-ID: <MON.5.JUN.2000.141812.EDT.>

Em uma mensagem de 6/5/00 11:56:09 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
mdmorris at indiana.edu escreveu:

<< With so many good linguists on the list, I hope someone might confirm or
 correct my understanding that neither Finnish, Hungarian nor Basque are
 Indo-European languages.  Thanks,  Mark Morris
  >>

You are correct in understanding that none of these languages are
Indo-European.  Finnish and Hungarian belong to the Finno-Ugric family along
with such languages as Estonian, Sami, Karelian, Nenets and Khanty.  Basque
is currently understood to be an isolate language, though a connection to
Georgian and other Caucasian languages is being pursued.  Other linguists
believe it may be related to some non-Arabic North African languages.  Yet,
others believe it to be entirely in situ.  The fact that some basic Basque
words seem to be derived from even simpler concepts i.e. aizkora (axe)
sharing the same root as the word aitz (rock) may mean that Basque is an
extremely old language.

John-Francis Fragoso Grasso


From karttu at nantucket.net  Mon Jun  5 22:19:17 2000
From: karttu at nantucket.net (Frances Karttunen)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 18:19:17 -0400
Subject: Language Families
Message-ID: <MON.5.JUN.2000.181917.0400.>

This is true.  Finnish and Hungarian belong to the Finno-Ugric language
family, and Basque is a language isolate.

Fran

----------
>From: Mark David Morris <mdmorris at indiana.edu>
>To: nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu
>Subject: Language Families
>Date: Mon, Jun 5, 2000, 10:54 AM
>

> With so many good linguists on the list, I hope someone might confirm or
> correct my understanding that neither Finnish, Hungarian nor Basque are
> Indo-European languages.  Thanks,  Mark Morris
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> For with much wisdom comes much sorrow; the more knowledge, the more
> grief. Eccl 1:18
>
> To realize that our knowledge is ignorance, this is a noble insight. To
> regard our ignorance as knowledge, this is mental sickness.  Only when we
> are sick of our sickness, shall we cease to be sick.  The Sage is not
> sick, being sick of sickness; This is the secret of health.  TTC 71
>
> MDM, PhD Candidate
> Dept. of History, Indiana Univ.
>
>


From karttu at nantucket.net  Mon Jun  5 22:24:24 2000
From: karttu at nantucket.net (Frances Karttunen)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 18:24:24 -0400
Subject: Language Families
Message-ID: <MON.5.JUN.2000.182424.0400.>

>
> Finnish and Hungarian are Turkish languages

This is not true.  Turkic languages and Finno-Ugric languages have some
typological similarities, but Finno-Ugric languages are not "Turkish
languages."

Fran Karttunen


From karttu at nantucket.net  Mon Jun  5 22:29:49 2000
From: karttu at nantucket.net (Frances Karttunen)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 18:29:49 -0400
Subject: Language Families
Message-ID: <MON.5.JUN.2000.182949.0400.>

> I had it understood from working as a folklore bibliographer for the MLA
> that Hungarian and Finnish seem to show influence from Mongolia.

There is no direct "influence from Mongolia" on Finnish.  There has been
some contact between Hungarian and Turkic languages in relatively recent
history.

Fran Karttunen


From micc at home.com  Tue Jun  6 04:34:10 2000
From: micc at home.com (mario)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 21:34:10 -0700
Subject: how do you say?
Message-ID: <MON.5.JUN.2000.213410.0700.>

I just received this request......can anyone help me?


Hey Compadre, I know your not sleeping yet. Anyway I just had a quick
question. How do you say in Nahuatl, You are my friend. Like if you were
talking to
your close friend and you wanted to tell him, your my friend.

Thanks!!!!!
mario e. aguilar


From mclssaa2 at fs2.mt.umist.ac.uk  Tue Jun  6 09:35:18 2000
From: mclssaa2 at fs2.mt.umist.ac.uk (Anthony Appleyard)
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 09:35:18 GMT
Subject: Language families
Message-ID: <TUE.6.JUN.2000.093518.GMT.>

  Frances Karttunen <karttu at nantucket.net> wrote;-
> There is no direct "influence from Mongolia" on Finnish.  There has been
> some contact between Hungarian and Turkic languages in relatively recent
> history.

There is the inevitable quota of accidental resemblances between unrelated
languages, e.g. Gaelic "beag" = Mongolian "baga" = "small", and Greek "theos"
= Nahuatl "teotl" = "god".

Someone compared modern English with modern Hindi (ignoring recent loanwords).
Of the look-alike words that he found, more were accidental resemblances than
genuine cognates. Languages gradually drift away from each other.

Someone mentioned Basque. My own ideas about Basque are:-
  (1) It might have been very distantly related to other non-IE languages
whose speakers came in up the west end of the Mediterranean: Iberian, Ivernian
(an old Irish language), Pictish. But all those languages perished unrecorded.
  (2) Basque may have undergone a drastic remake in latish prehistoric times,
destroying any remaining evidence for old relationships.

  TruBluPooh at aol.com wrote:-
> The fact that some basic Basque words seem to be derived from even simpler
> concepts i.e. aizkora (axe) sharing the same root as the word aitz (rock)
> may mean that Basque is an extremely old language.

But what is an "old language"? Nearly all languages have very old roots.

"aizkora" being an apparent compound may mean merely that a previous simple
word for "axe" because unusable because of homophony due to phonetic change.


From mmccaffe at indiana.edu  Tue Jun  6 11:17:20 2000
From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael Mccafferty)
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 06:17:20 -0500
Subject: how do you say?
In-Reply-To: <393C7F42.CC1FD5EC@home.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.6.JUN.2000.061720.0500.>

tinocniuh (classical)

tica nocnin (modern)



On Mon, 5 Jun 2000, mario wrote:

> I just received this request......can anyone help me?
>
>
> Hey Compadre, I know your not sleeping yet. Anyway I just had a quick
> question. How do you say in Nahuatl, You are my friend. Like if you were
> talking to
> your close friend and you wanted to tell him, your my friend.
>
> Thanks!!!!!
> mario e. aguilar
>
>


Michael McCafferty
307 Memorial Hall
Indiana University
Bloomington, Indiana
47405
mmccaffe at indiana.edu

*******************************************************************************
"So, who you gonna believe,
me or your own eyes?"

              -Chico Marx

*******************************************************************************


From jsullivan at prodigy.net.mx  Tue Jun  6 14:06:01 2000
From: jsullivan at prodigy.net.mx (John Sullivan)
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 09:06:01 -0500
Subject: how do you say?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.1000606061650.4508E-100000@ariel.ucs.indiana.edu>
Message-ID: <TUE.6.JUN.2000.090601.0500.>

Modern Huastecan Nahuatl (San Luis Potosí):
"Taj tinowampox" or "Taj tinowampoyo"

    John Sullivan
    Universidad Autónoma de Zacatecas



on 6/6/00 6:17 AM, Michael Mccafferty at mmccaffe at indiana.edu wrote:

> tinocniuh (classical)
> 
> tica nocnin (modern)
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, 5 Jun 2000, mario wrote:
> 
>> I just received this request......can anyone help me?
>> 
>> 
>> Hey Compadre, I know your not sleeping yet. Anyway I just had a quick
>> question. How do you say in Nahuatl, You are my friend. Like if you were
>> talking to
>> your close friend and you wanted to tell him, your my friend.
>> 
>> Thanks!!!!!
>> mario e. aguilar
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> Michael McCafferty
> 307 Memorial Hall
> Indiana University
> Bloomington, Indiana
> 47405
> mmccaffe at indiana.edu
> 
> 
****************************************************************************
**> *
> "So, who you gonna believe,
> me or your own eyes?"
> 
> -Chico Marx
> 
> 
****************************************************************************
**> *
> 
> 


From micc at home.com  Tue Jun  6 14:14:53 2000
From: micc at home.com (mario)
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 07:14:53 -0700
Subject: how do you say?
Message-ID: <TUE.6.JUN.2000.071453.0700.>

Thanks Michael!!!!!!!!




Michael Mccafferty wrote:

> tinocniuh (classical)
>
> tica nocnin (modern)
>
> On Mon, 5 Jun 2000, mario wrote:
>
> > I just received this request......can anyone help me?
> >
> >
> > Hey Compadre, I know your not sleeping yet. Anyway I just had a quick
> > question. How do you say in Nahuatl, You are my friend. Like if you were
> > talking to
> > your close friend and you wanted to tell him, your my friend.
> >
> > Thanks!!!!!
> > mario e. aguilar
> >
> >
>
> Michael McCafferty
> 307 Memorial Hall
> Indiana University
> Bloomington, Indiana
> 47405
> mmccaffe at indiana.edu
>
> *******************************************************************************
> "So, who you gonna believe,
> me or your own eyes?"
>
>               -Chico Marx
>
> *******************************************************************************


From leonelhermida at netc.pt  Tue Jun  6 14:52:31 2000
From: leonelhermida at netc.pt (Leonel Hermida)
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 15:52:31 +0100
Subject: Language Families
Message-ID: <TUE.6.JUN.2000.155231.0100.>

Further to the remark that:

>The fact that some basic Basque 
>words seem to be derived from even simpler concepts i.e. aizkora (axe) 
>sharing the same root as the word aitz (rock) may mean that Basque is an 
>extremely old language,

and in the same sense, I apologize for being off-topic, but can't fail to draw attention 
to the following very basic Basque words which I'm sure all share the same (pre-historic and 
exceedingly primitive) root, though I've never seen that stated before 
by any professional linguist:

EME=female
AMA=mother
EMAKUME=woman
EMAZTE= woman, wife
UME=child 
SEME=son

On the other hand, I did see it stated by more than one competent linguist (sources available
if requested) that the putative (genetic) relationship postulated by some between the Uralic 
(Finnish, Hungarian, etc.) language family and the Turkic language family (this being 
known as the Ural-Altaic hypothesis) is far from being proved at all.
Of course the statement that Finnish and/or Hungarian are Turkic languages 
('Turkish' in stead of 'Turkic' would even be worse) was *never* seriously put 
forth by any professional (or even amateur) linguist and is, as Fran plainly put it, 
not true. 
One last thing while I have your attention, is about the influence of Mongolian on at least one Uralic 
language, namely Hungarian: it comes to the mind the word *bátor* meaning *brave* which apart 
from being  a fairly common word in Hungarian enters in the very name of the capital city of Mongolia 
(Ulaan Baator, I think). This must be attributed to historical contact between Turkic and Uralic (better,
Hungarian and a few others) on one side and Turkic and Mongolian on the other, rather than being 
evidence of any (genetic) relationship whatsoever between Uralic and Mongolian.

Best, 

Leonel Hermida

-----Original Message-----
From: TruBluPooh at aol.com <TruBluPooh at aol.com>
To: nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu <nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu>
Date: Monday, June 05, 2000 7:25 PM
Subject: Re: Language Families


>Basque is currently understood to be an isolate language, though a connection to 
>Georgian and other Caucasian languages is being pursued.  Other linguists 
>believe it may be related to some non-Arabic North African languages.  Yet, 
>others believe it to be entirely in situ.  The fact that some basic Basque 
>words seem to be derived from even simpler concepts i.e. aizkora (axe) 
>sharing the same root as the word aitz (rock) may mean that Basque is an 
>extremely old language.
>
>John-Francis Fragoso Grasso


From anthony.appleyard at umist.ac.uk  Tue Jun  6 19:58:47 2000
From: anthony.appleyard at umist.ac.uk (anthony.appleyard at umist.ac.uk)
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 20:58:47 +0100
Subject: Basque and other relationships
Message-ID: <TUE.6.JUN.2000.205847.0100.>

  Leonel Hermida <leonelhermida at netc.pt> wrote:
>  I apologize for being off-topic, but can't fail to draw attention
> to the following very basic Basque words which I'm sure all share the
> same (pre-historic and exceedingly primitive) root ...

EME=female
AMA=mother
EMAKUME=woman
EMAZTE= woman, wife
UME=child
SEME=son

This sort of thing about Basque has been discussed to exhaustion on
INDO-EUROPEAN and NOSTRATIC email groups.
Words for females with M in are not free from the suspicion of
originating with the meaning "mother" or "breast" and being
independently imitated ultimately from the same automatic pre-speech
suckling noises that babies make. Baby words are likely to get into
adult speech as stopgaps when the previous adult words become unusable
because of homophony: compare English "nanny" for "child's nurse" to
distinguish from "hospital nurse".

The Basque speakers have been ruled by Indo-European speakers for so
long that many loanwords are likely to have got in, even for family
relationships. Compare: English is Germanic, but "uncle" comes from
Latin "avunculus".

> ... the influence of Mongolian on at least one Uralic language, namely
> Hungarian: it comes to the mind the word *bátor* meaning *brave* which
> apart from being  a fairly common word in Hungarian enters in the very
> name of the capital city of Mongolia (Ulaan Baator, I think).

The Mongols under Batu Khan (he was Genghis's son, I think) overran
Hungary. It is no wonder a stray loanword got across. The word also got
into Hindi as "bahadur".


From schwallr at selway.umt.edu  Tue Jun  6 20:30:36 2000
From: schwallr at selway.umt.edu (John F. Schwaller)
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 14:30:36 -0600
Subject: Basque and other relationships
In-Reply-To: <s+GGSCA3fVP5EwSH@buckrogers.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <TUE.6.JUN.2000.143036.0600.>

OK, folks.  Thank you for your enlightenment regarding Basque and other
European languages.  I'm afraid that I must step in and call a halt to this
line of discussion, as it really has little to do with Nahuatl.

Thank you.

J. F. Schwaller
List owner


John Frederick Schwaller                             schwallr at selway.umt.edu
Associate Provost                                        406-243-4722
The University of Montana                           FAX 406-243-5937
                          http://www.umt.edu/history/NAHUATL/


From mmccaffe at indiana.edu  Tue Jun  6 20:30:25 2000
From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael Mccafferty)
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 15:30:25 -0500
Subject: Basque and other relationships
In-Reply-To: <s+GGSCA3fVP5EwSH@buckrogers.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <TUE.6.JUN.2000.153025.0500.>

> 
> The Basque speakers have been ruled by Indo-European speakers for so
> long that many loanwords are likely to have got in, even for family
> relationships. Compare: English is Germanic, but "uncle" comes from
> Latin "avunculus".
> 
> > ... the influence of Mongolian on at least one Uralic language, namely
> > Hungarian: it comes to the mind the word *b�tor* meaning *brave* which
> > apart from being  a fairly common word in Hungarian enters in the very
> > name of the capital city of Mongolia (Ulaan Baator, I think). 
> 
> The Mongols under Batu Khan (he was Genghis's son, I think) overran
> Hungary. It is no wonder a stray loanword got across. The word also got
> into Hindi as "bahadur".


Loan words are a source of mystery. Consider Miami-Illinois, a Great Lakes
Algonquian language, in which the word for "eight" is a borrowing from
Siouan Tutelo. How in the devil that happened is anybody's guess.

Michael


From jrader at m-w.com  Tue Jun  6 17:03:36 2000
From: jrader at m-w.com (Jim Rader)
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 17:03:36 +0000
Subject: Basque and other relationships
Message-ID: <TUE.6.JUN.2000.170336.0000.>

> > ... the influence of Mongolian on at least one Uralic language, namely
> > Hungarian: it comes to the mind the word *bator* meaning *brave* which
> > apart from being  a fairly common word in Hungarian enters in the very
> > name of the capital city of Mongolia (Ulaan Baator, I think).
>
> The Mongols under Batu Khan (he was Genghis's son, I think) overran
> Hungary. It is no wonder a stray loanword got across. The word also got
> into Hindi as "bahadur".
>
>

WAY off the topic of this list, but this etymon probably originated
in Turkic and was borrowed into Mongolian.  Gerard Clauson thought
<bag^a:tu:r> was itself a loanword into Turkic from a Xiongnu
personal name.  From Turkic the word was borrowed into Persian and
hence into Indo-Aryan languages such as Hindi, and back into some
Turkic languages from Persian.  Hungarian <ba/tor> was borrowed from
Turkic, not Mongolian; direct Hungarian contact with the Mongols was
slight.  Also from Turkic, directly or indirectly, are words for
"hero" in various Slavic languages (Russian <bogatyr'>, Polish
<bohater>, etc.).  To correct something said in an earlier post:
Hungarian has a number of loanwords from Slavic, but the Slavic
influence on Hungarian is not at all comparable to the French
influence on English.

Enough--let's get back to Nahuatl.

Jim Rader


From robc at csufresno.edu  Wed Jun  7 01:48:03 2000
From: robc at csufresno.edu (Robert G. Comegys)
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 18:48:03 -0700
Subject: Language Families, my apologies
Message-ID: <TUE.6.JUN.2000.184803.0700.>

My apologies to the group for mislabeling conclusions drawn from other sources as
"linguistic". No, actually I am not a linguist, and will certainly remember
this better in the future.  Usually I am very careful to not overstate
conclusions and to cite sourtces. Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.  I
will resume my place in
the back of the class and try to learn something of nahuat-l.  John Comegys


>
> Mark David Morris wrote:
>
> > With so many good linguists on the list, I hope someone might confirm or
> > correct my understanding that neither Finnish, Hungarian nor Basque are
> > Indo-European languages.  Thanks,  Mark Morris
> >


From aows at swbell.net  Wed Jun  7 16:33:02 2000
From: aows at swbell.net (Alexander Wallace)
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 10:33:02 -0600
Subject: Catalan: NOY
In-Reply-To: <s+GGSCA3fVP5EwSH@buckrogers.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <WED.7.JUN.2000.103302.0600.>

I'm sorry, I know this is way off topic, but I can't find the translation
from Cataln of the word NOY, either to spanish or english, and since out
there in the list there might be people with knowledg about this I just
thought I'd ask....

Thanks!

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu
[mailto:owner-nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu]On Behalf Of
anthony.appleyard at umist.ac.uk
Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2000 1:59 PM
To: nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu
Cc: anthony.appleyard at umist.ac.uk
Subject: Basque and other relationships


  Leonel Hermida <leonelhermida at netc.pt> wrote:
>  I apologize for being off-topic, but can't fail to draw attention
> to the following very basic Basque words which I'm sure all share the
> same (pre-historic and exceedingly primitive) root ...

EME=female
AMA=mother
EMAKUME=woman
EMAZTE= woman, wife
UME=child
SEME=son

This sort of thing about Basque has been discussed to exhaustion on
INDO-EUROPEAN and NOSTRATIC email groups.
Words for females with M in are not free from the suspicion of
originating with the meaning "mother" or "breast" and being
independently imitated ultimately from the same automatic pre-speech
suckling noises that babies make. Baby words are likely to get into
adult speech as stopgaps when the previous adult words become unusable
because of homophony: compare English "nanny" for "child's nurse" to
distinguish from "hospital nurse".

The Basque speakers have been ruled by Indo-European speakers for so
long that many loanwords are likely to have got in, even for family
relationships. Compare: English is Germanic, but "uncle" comes from
Latin "avunculus".

> ... the influence of Mongolian on at least one Uralic language, namely
> Hungarian: it comes to the mind the word *bátor* meaning *brave* which
> apart from being  a fairly common word in Hungarian enters in the very
> name of the capital city of Mongolia (Ulaan Baator, I think).

The Mongols under Batu Khan (he was Genghis's son, I think) overran
Hungary. It is no wonder a stray loanword got across. The word also got
into Hindi as "bahadur".


From nahualli at highfiber.com  Wed Jun  7 19:26:28 2000
From: nahualli at highfiber.com (Brant Gardner)
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 13:26:28 -0600
Subject: Catalan: NOY
In-Reply-To: <001401bfd09e$0cf75850$e3706f6e@quetzalcoatl>
Message-ID: <WED.7.JUN.2000.132628.0600.>

I do not speak Catalan, but do have a Catalan-Spanish dictionary. It gives
the word as NOI and translates it chico/muchacho (young man)

___________________

Brant Gardner
Albuquerque, NM
nahualli at highfiber.com


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu
[mailto:owner-nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu]On Behalf Of Alexander Wallace
Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2000 10:33 AM
To: nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu
Subject: Catalan: NOY


I'm sorry, I know this is way off topic, but I can't find the translation
from Cataln of the word NOY, either to spanish or english, and since out
there in the list there might be people with knowledg about this I just
thought I'd ask....

Thanks!

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu
[mailto:owner-nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu]On Behalf Of
anthony.appleyard at umist.ac.uk
Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2000 1:59 PM
To: nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu
Cc: anthony.appleyard at umist.ac.uk
Subject: Basque and other relationships


  Leonel Hermida <leonelhermida at netc.pt> wrote:
>  I apologize for being off-topic, but can't fail to draw attention
> to the following very basic Basque words which I'm sure all share the
> same (pre-historic and exceedingly primitive) root ...

EME=female
AMA=mother
EMAKUME=woman
EMAZTE= woman, wife
UME=child
SEME=son

This sort of thing about Basque has been discussed to exhaustion on
INDO-EUROPEAN and NOSTRATIC email groups.
Words for females with M in are not free from the suspicion of
originating with the meaning "mother" or "breast" and being
independently imitated ultimately from the same automatic pre-speech
suckling noises that babies make. Baby words are likely to get into
adult speech as stopgaps when the previous adult words become unusable
because of homophony: compare English "nanny" for "child's nurse" to
distinguish from "hospital nurse".

The Basque speakers have been ruled by Indo-European speakers for so
long that many loanwords are likely to have got in, even for family
relationships. Compare: English is Germanic, but "uncle" comes from
Latin "avunculus".

> ... the influence of Mongolian on at least one Uralic language, namely
> Hungarian: it comes to the mind the word *bátor* meaning *brave* which
> apart from being  a fairly common word in Hungarian enters in the very
> name of the capital city of Mongolia (Ulaan Baator, I think).

The Mongols under Batu Khan (he was Genghis's son, I think) overran
Hungary. It is no wonder a stray loanword got across. The word also got
into Hindi as "bahadur".


From pkurtboke at mail.hotkey.net.au  Thu Jun  8 07:17:58 2000
From: pkurtboke at mail.hotkey.net.au (P. Kurtboke)
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 17:17:58 +1000
Subject: Basque and other relationships
In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20000606143036.00b55870@selway.umt.edu>
Message-ID: <THU.8.JUN.2000.171758.1000.>

Incidentally, Basque, Turkish, Hungarian, Finnish and a few more happen to
agglutinate.

Those dealing with parsers and other analysis tools for these languages
might have a bit more than little to do with Nahuatl...After all, we all
try to reveal the mysteries of affix combinations in our respective
languages and might all benefit from collaboration.

Petek

ps 'tepe' in Turkish means 'hill'


>OK, folks.  Thank you for your enlightenment regarding Basque and other
>European languages.  I'm afraid that I must step in and call a halt to this
>line of discussion, as it really has little to do with Nahuatl.
>
>Thank you.
>
>J. F. Schwaller
>List owner
>


From mclssaa2 at fs2.mt.umist.ac.uk  Thu Jun  8 10:14:13 2000
From: mclssaa2 at fs2.mt.umist.ac.uk (Anthony Appleyard)
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 10:14:13 GMT
Subject: (parsers (was: Re: Language families)
Message-ID: <THU.8.JUN.2000.101413.GMT.>

  J. F. Schwaller reminded us that Basque etc is off-topic for this group.

  "P. Kurtboke" <pkurtboke at mail.hotkey.net.au> answered:-
> Incidentally, Basque, Turkish, Hungarian, Finnish and a few more happen to
> agglutinate. Those dealing with parsers and other analysis tools for these
> languages might have a bit more than little to do with Nahuatl...After all,
> we all try to reveal the mysteries of affix combinations in our respective
> languages and might all benefit from collaboration.

I have written a parser / auto-translater program for an agglutinating
language - for the invented Star Trek Klingon language, which is more regular
than natural languages tend to be. I wrote it individually for that language,
in Gnu C++ for DOS, not using any programmable parser format like YACC or etc.
I could try to adapt it for Nahuatl (and Windows) if I had to, but coping with
spelling rule variations and the results of assimilations etc at morpheme
junctions would add complications.


From pkurtboke at mail.hotkey.net.au  Thu Jun  8 10:16:10 2000
From: pkurtboke at mail.hotkey.net.au (P. Kurtboke)
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 20:16:10 +1000
Subject: (parsers (was: Re: Language families)
In-Reply-To: <32E58731C94@fs2.mt.umist.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <THU.8.JUN.2000.201610.1000.>

At 10:14 AM 6/8/00 GMT, you wrote:
>  J. F. Schwaller reminded us that Basque etc is off-topic for this group.

Anthony, my message was not about that. I was simply hesitant to change the
subject line and thought long about it before posting my message.
>
>I have written a parser / auto-translater program for an agglutinating
>language - for the invented Star Trek Klingon language, which is more
regular
>than natural languages tend to be. I wrote it individually for that
language,
>in Gnu C++ for DOS, not using any programmable parser format like YACC or
etc.
>I could try to adapt it for Nahuatl (and Windows) if I had to, but coping
with
>spelling rule variations and the results of assimilations etc at morpheme
>junctions would add complications.
>
You're welcome to try it on my corpus of 1000 Turkish texts.

Petek


From aows at swbell.net  Thu Jun  8 15:30:21 2000
From: aows at swbell.net (Alexander Wallace)
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 09:30:21 -0600
Subject: Catalan: NOY: Thanks!
In-Reply-To: <000001bfd0b7$5efd14a0$3d822a40@brantg>
Message-ID: <THU.8.JUN.2000.093021.0600.>

I thank everyone for helping me with that word. For some reason I have it as
NOY, but it may by just a typo, it is the title of a popular (clasic)
catalan song: EL NOY (noi?) DE LA MARE. El chico de mama'? Makes sense...

Thanks again!

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu
[mailto:owner-nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu]On Behalf Of Brant Gardner
Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2000 1:26 PM
To: nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu
Subject: RE: Catalan: NOY


I do not speak Catalan, but do have a Catalan-Spanish dictionary. It gives
the word as NOI and translates it chico/muchacho (young man)

___________________

Brant Gardner
Albuquerque, NM
nahualli at highfiber.com


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu
[mailto:owner-nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu]On Behalf Of Alexander Wallace
Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2000 10:33 AM
To: nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu
Subject: Catalan: NOY


I'm sorry, I know this is way off topic, but I can't find the translation
from Cataln of the word NOY, either to spanish or english, and since out
there in the list there might be people with knowledg about this I just
thought I'd ask....

Thanks!

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu
[mailto:owner-nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu]On Behalf Of
anthony.appleyard at umist.ac.uk
Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2000 1:59 PM
To: nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu
Cc: anthony.appleyard at umist.ac.uk
Subject: Basque and other relationships


  Leonel Hermida <leonelhermida at netc.pt> wrote:
>  I apologize for being off-topic, but can't fail to draw attention
> to the following very basic Basque words which I'm sure all share the
> same (pre-historic and exceedingly primitive) root ...

EME=female
AMA=mother
EMAKUME=woman
EMAZTE= woman, wife
UME=child
SEME=son

This sort of thing about Basque has been discussed to exhaustion on
INDO-EUROPEAN and NOSTRATIC email groups.
Words for females with M in are not free from the suspicion of
originating with the meaning "mother" or "breast" and being
independently imitated ultimately from the same automatic pre-speech
suckling noises that babies make. Baby words are likely to get into
adult speech as stopgaps when the previous adult words become unusable
because of homophony: compare English "nanny" for "child's nurse" to
distinguish from "hospital nurse".

The Basque speakers have been ruled by Indo-European speakers for so
long that many loanwords are likely to have got in, even for family
relationships. Compare: English is Germanic, but "uncle" comes from
Latin "avunculus".

> ... the influence of Mongolian on at least one Uralic language, namely
> Hungarian: it comes to the mind the word *bátor* meaning *brave* which
> apart from being  a fairly common word in Hungarian enters in the very
> name of the capital city of Mongolia (Ulaan Baator, I think).

The Mongols under Batu Khan (he was Genghis's son, I think) overran
Hungary. It is no wonder a stray loanword got across. The word also got
into Hindi as "bahadur".


From RCRAPO at hass3.hass.usu.edu  Mon Jun 12 21:07:22 2000
From: RCRAPO at hass3.hass.usu.edu (Richley Crapo)
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 15:07:22 -0600
Subject: Aztec Idioms
Message-ID: <MON.12.JUN.2000.150722.0600.>

Is "cuali eztli" an original Nahuatl idiom for "of noble lineage", or is this more likely a loan-translation from Spanish into Nahuatl?

richley


From alina at dir.bg  Thu Jun 15 12:40:50 2000
From: alina at dir.bg (Maria)
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 15:40:50 0300
Subject: ense&ntilde;anza de nahuatl
Message-ID: <THU.15.JUN.2000.154050.0300.>

Estimados amigos:
permitenme saludarles y presentarme - me llamo Mar&iacute;a Guergu&iacute;eva y soy una enamorada de la cultura mexicana, en general, y de la nahua, en particular, estoy haciendo la carrera de Letras Hisp&aacute;nicas en la Universidad de Sof&iacute;a y en el momento actual me dedico a la traducci&oacute;n de poes&iacute;a azteca /en la versi&oacute;n al castellano de &Aacute;ngel Garibay y de Miguel Le&oacute;n-Portilla/. Mi sue&ntilde;o e intenci&oacute;n es estudiar en un futuro pr&oacute;ximo la lengua nahuatl para llevar a cabo una mejor traducci&oacute;n de los textos. Les ser&iacute;a enormemente agradecida si alguno de Ustedes pudiera informarmarme acerca de la ense&ntilde;anza del idioma n&aacute;huatl:d&oacute;nde se ense&ntilde;a, cu&aacute;les son los requisitos de admisi&oacute;n, etc...
Gracias de antemano:
Mar&iacute;a

----------------------------------------------------
��������� ���� �� dir.bg! Free e-mail from dir.bg!
http://www.dir.bg
----------------------------------------------------


From schwallr at selway.umt.edu  Tue Jun 20 15:24:46 2000
From: schwallr at selway.umt.edu (John F. Schwaller)
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 09:24:46 -0600
Subject: New article
Message-ID: <TUE.20.JUN.2000.092446.0600.>

  Francis, Norbert
"The shared conceptual system and language processing in bilingual children:
Findings from literacy assessment in Spanish and Nahuatl. "
_Applied linguistics_. vol.  21 num. 2  (JUN 01 2000), p. 170
John Frederick Schwaller                             schwallr at selway.umt.edu
Associate Provost                                        406-243-4722
The University of Montana                           FAX 406-243-5937
                           http://www.umt.edu/history/NAHUATL/


From schwallr at selway.umt.edu  Tue Jun 20 16:39:50 2000
From: schwallr at selway.umt.edu (John F. Schwaller)
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 10:39:50 -0600
Subject: Fwd: Dumbarton Oaks Pre-Columbian Studies Symposium, 7 & 8
 October 200 0,  Organized by John B. Carlson
Message-ID: <TUE.20.JUN.2000.103950.0600.>

>From: "Willson, Rebecca" <WillsonR at DOAKS.org>
>Subject: Dumbarton Oaks Pre-Columbian Studies Symposium, 7 & 8 October 200
>         0,  Organized by John B. Carlson
>Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 12:13:40 -0400
>
>
> > Pre-Columbian Symposium
>October   7 - 8 , 2000
>
> > PILGRIMAGE AND THE RITUAL LANDSCAPE
> > IN PRE-COLUMBIAN AMERICA
> >
> > organized by
> >
> > John B. Carlson
> >
> >
> >       Ancient Americans ordered the natural world on cosmological
> > principles.  Mountains and springs, plains and rivers, were points and
> > channels of sacred power from historical events and timeless sacred
> > forces.  Geographical features were inscribed by human hands to mark their
> > sacredness while temples and shrines replicated holy mountains, caves, and
> > water sources.  Throughout the New World natural and constructed places
> > commonly became centers of pilgrimage in patterns often maintained to the
> > present.
> >
> >       This symposium will explore sacred landscapes and pilgrimage in the
> > New World, drawing upon a few of the many examples available.  The
> > perspective will be multi-disciplinary, cross-cultural, and examine wider
> > issues for understanding these issues beyond the New World.
> >
> >       The lifetime work of two innovative, influential scholars will be
> > acknowledged in this Symposium.  As active researchers, Doris Heyden,
> > Investigador Nacional and Anthropologist and Ethnohistorian at the
> > Direccion de Etnologia y Antropologia Social - Instituto Nacional de
> > Antropologia e Historia, Mexico, and Evon Z. Vogt, Professor Emeritus of
> > Anthropology at Harvard University will take a participatory role in the
> > symposium.
> >
> > The symposium is open to scholars and advanced graduate students.  If you
> > wish to attend, please complete the enclosed registration form and return
> > it with the $40 registration fee ($30 for graduate students).  This covers
> > admission to the scholarly sessions and the Saturday evening cocktail
> > party.  Lunch is offered on Saturday by prior subscription for $15,
> > payable in advance with the registration fee.  Deadline for registration
> > is September 24, but you are urged to respond as soon as possible. The
> > maximum number of participants is 200, accepted on a "first come, first
> > served" basis.  Information on area hotels and taxis will be sent to you
> > when your registration is confirmed.
> >
> >       Please bring this notice to the attention of appropriate colleagues
> > and students, who may use a duplicate of the form to register. Please
> > address all correspondence to:
> >
> > Pre-Columbian Studies, Dumbarton Oaks
> > 1703 32nd Street NW, Washington, DC 20007
> >
> > or email: Pre-Columbian at doaks.org
> >
> >
> >
> > * No registrations will be accepted via email.
> > * No fees are payable by credit card.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Tentative Agenda
> >
> > Pilgrimage and the Ritual Landscape in Pre-Columbian America
> >
> >
> > Saturday, October 8, 2000
> >
> > 8:00 - 8:45   Registration, Coffee on the Terrace
> >
> > Morning Session
> >
> > Clive L. N. Ruggles (University of Leicester): Landscape Archaeology and
> > the Archaeology of Pilgrimage: A View from Across the Atlantic
> >
> > Sabine G. MacCormack (University of Michigan): Strangers and Pilgrims
> >
> > Helaine Silverman (University of Illinois at Champaign-Urbana): Pilgrimage
> > and Sacred Landscapes in Ancient Nazca
> >
> > Johan Reinhard (The Mountain Institute and National Geographic Society):
> > Sacred Mountains, Human Sacrifices, and Pilgrimages Among the Inca
> >
> > 12:30 - 2:00  Lunch at Dumbarton Oaks (by subscription)
> >
> >
> > Afternoon Session:
> >
> > Barbara Tedlock (State University of New York - Buffalo): Momostenango,
> > 'Town of Shrines': The Archaeological Implications of A Living Maya
> > Calendrical Pilgrimage Center
> >
> > Evon Z. Vogt (Harvard University): Micro-pilgimages to the Mountain and
> > Waterhole Shrines in the Tzotzil-Maya Community of Zinacantan
> >
> > Andrea Stone (University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee) and James Brady
> > (California State University-Los Angeles): The Road to Xibalba: Regional
> > Pilgrimage Caves in the Maya Area
> >
> > William L. Fash and David Stuart (Harvard University): Sacbes, Sacred
> > Mountains, and Ceremonial Circuits in the Copan Valley
> >
> > Stephen H. Lekson and Gretchen Jordan (University of Colorado-Boulder):
> > Landscape, Pilgrimage, and Power in the Ancient Southwest
> >
> > 5:30 - 7:00   Cocktail Reception
> > -over-
> >
> >
> >
> > Sunday, October 10, 1999
> >
> > 8:30 - 9:00   Coffee on the Terrace
> >
> >
> > 9:00 - 12:30  Morning Session
> >
> > John M. D. Pohl (Independent Scholar) and Javier Urcid (Brandeis
> > University): Sacred Caves and Migration Legends as Allegories for
> > Postclassic Alliance and Exchange Networks
> >
> > Michael D. Lind (Independent Scholar): Pilgrimage and the Ritual Landscape
> > in Ancient Cholula
> >
> > Richard Townsend (Art Institute of Chicago): From Landscape to Symbol at
> > Tezcotzingo and Mt. Tlaloc
> >
> > John B. Carlson (Center for Archaeoastronomy and University of Maryland,
> > College Park): La Malinche and San Miguel: Pilgrimage and Sacrifice to the
> > Mountains of Sustanence in the Mexican Altiplano
> >
> > Doris Heyden (DEAS-INAH: Direccion de Etnologia y Antropologia Social -
> > Instituto Nacional de Antropologiae Historia, Mexico): The Effect of
> > Natural Disasters on the Landscape of Mexico, and How These Created
> > Pilgrimage Centers: Caves, Mountains, etc."
> >
> > Please consider that the Symposium may continue until 1:30 p.m. when
> > making your travel arrangements
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > REGISTRATION FORM
> >
> > Please register me for the Symposium:
> >
> > Pilgrimage and the Ritual Landscape in Pre-Columbian America
> > October 7-8, 2000
> >
> >
> >       $40 fee enclosed                                $____________
> >       $30 student fee enclosed                        $____________
> >       $15 lunch fee enclosed for Oct.
> > $____________
> >       TOTAL ENCLOSED                          $____________
> >
> >
> > PRINT name and affiliation as you wish them to appear on your
> > identification badge.
> >
> > Name_________________________________________________________
> >
> > Affiliation_____________________________________________________
> >
> > Work Phone_______________________________________________________
> >
> > Home Phone (optional____________________________________
> >
> > Mailing address (include your affiliation's name again if it is part of
> > your
> > address):_____________________________________________________________
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> >
> > Email address______________________________________________________
> >
> > The registration fee must be paid by September 25th and is not refundable.
> > For lunch refund, cancellation must be received no later than September
> > 28th.  Payment received after spaces have been filled will be returned.
> > Your registration will be acknowledged by postcard.
> >
> > Please mail this form with check payable to DUMBARTON OAKS  to:
> >
> >                       Pre-Columbian Studies
> >                                                 Attn: Symposium
> >                       Dumbarton Oaks
> >                       1703 32nd Street, NW
> >                       Washington, DC  20007
> >


From schwallr at selway.umt.edu  Tue Jun 20 17:03:45 2000
From: schwallr at selway.umt.edu (John F. Schwaller)
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 11:03:45 -0600
Subject: Dumbarton Oaks - Revised
Message-ID: <TUE.20.JUN.2000.110345.0600.>

Please note that the Program contains several errors.  The conference will
take place on October 7 & 8, 2000, Saturday and Sunday.

 > Subject: Dumbarton Oaks Pre-Columbian Studies Symposium, 7 & 8
 > October 2000, Organized by John B. Carlson
 >
 >
 >
 > Pre-Columbian Symposium
 > October 7 - 8 , 2000
 >
 > PILGRIMAGE AND THE RITUAL LANDSCAPE
 > IN PRE-COLUMBIAN AMERICA
 >
 > organized by
 >
 > John B. Carlson
 >
 >
 > Ancient Americans ordered the natural world on cosmological
 > principles. Mountains and springs, plains and rivers, were points and
 > channels of sacred power from historical events and timeless sacred
 > forces. Geographical features were inscribed by human hands to mark their
 > sacredness while temples and shrines replicated holy mountains, caves, and
 > water sources. Throughout the New World natural and constructed places
 > commonly became centers of pilgrimage in patterns often maintained to the
 > present.
 >
 > This symposium will explore sacred landscapes and pilgrimage in the
 > New World, drawing upon a few of the many examples available. The
 > perspective will be multi-disciplinary, cross-cultural, and examine wider
 > issues for understanding these issues beyond the New World.
 >
 > The lifetime work of two innovative, influential scholars will be
 > acknowledged in this Symposium. As active researchers, Doris Heyden,
 > Investigador Nacional and Anthropologist and Ethnohistorian at the
 > Direccion de Etnologia y Antropologia Social - Instituto Nacional de
 > Antropologia e Historia, Mexico, and Evon Z. Vogt, Professor Emeritus of
 > Anthropology at Harvard University will take a participatory role in the
 > symposium.
 >
 > The symposium is open to scholars and advanced graduate students. If you
 > wish to attend, please complete the enclosed registration form and return
 > it with the $40 registration fee ($30 for graduate students). This covers
 > admission to the scholarly sessions and the Saturday evening cocktail
 > party. Lunch is offered on Saturday by prior subscription for $15,
 > payable in advance with the registration fee. Deadline for registration
 > is September 25, but you are urged to respond as soon as possible. The
 > maximum number of participants is 200, accepted on a "first come, first
 > served" basis. Information on area hotels and taxis will be sent to you
 > when your registration is confirmed.
 >
 > Please bring this notice to the attention of appropriate colleagues
 > and students, who may use a duplicate of the form to register. Please
 > address all correspondence to:
 >
 > Pre-Columbian Studies, Dumbarton Oaks
 > 1703 32nd Street NW, Washington, DC 20007
 >
 > or email: Pre-Columbian at doaks.org
 >
 >
 >
 > * No registrations will be accepted via email.
 > * No fees are payable by credit card.
 >
 >
 >
 >
 > Tentative Agenda
 >
 > Pilgrimage and the Ritual Landscape in Pre-Columbian America
 >
 >
 > Friday, October 7, 2000
 >
 > 8:00 - 8:45 Registration, Coffee on the Terrace
 >
 > Morning Session
 >
 > Clive L. N. Ruggles (University of Leicester): Landscape Archaeology and
 > the Archaeology of Pilgrimage: A View from Across the Atlantic
 >
 > Sabine G. MacCormack (University of Michigan): Strangers and Pilgrims
 >
 > Helaine Silverman (University of Illinois at Champaign-Urbana): Pilgrimage
 > and Sacred Landscapes in Ancient Nazca
 >
 > Johan Reinhard (The Mountain Institute and National Geographic Society):
 > Sacred Mountains, Human Sacrifices, and Pilgrimages Among the Inca
 >
 > 12:30 - 2:00 Lunch at Dumbarton Oaks (by subscription)
 >
 >
 > Afternoon Session:
 >
 > Barbara Tedlock (State University of New York - Buffalo): Momostenango,
 > 'Town of Shrines': The Archaeological Implications of A Living Maya
 > Calendrical Pilgrimage Center
 >
 > Evon Z. Vogt (Harvard University): Micro-pilgimages to the Mountain and
 > Waterhole Shrines in the Tzotzil-Maya Community of Zinacantan
 >
 > Andrea Stone (University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee) and James Brady
 > (California State University-Los Angeles): The Road to Xibalba: Regional
 > Pilgrimage Caves in the Maya Area
 >
 > William L. Fash and David Stuart (Harvard University): Sacbes, Sacred
 > Mountains, and Ceremonial Circuits in the Copan Valley
 >
 > Stephen H. Lekson and Gretchen Jordan (University of Colorado-Boulder):
 > Landscape, Pilgrimage, and Power in the Ancient Southwest
 >
 > 5:30 - 7:00 Cocktail Reception
 > -over-
 >
 >
 >
 > Saturday, October 8th, 2000
 >
 > 8:30 - 9:00 Coffee on the Terrace
 >
 >
 > 9:00 - 12:30 Morning Session
 >
 > John M. D. Pohl (Independent Scholar) and Javier Urcid (Brandeis
 > University): Sacred Caves and Migration Legends as Allegories for
 > Postclassic Alliance and Exchange Networks
 >
 > Michael D. Lind (Independent Scholar): Pilgrimage and the Ritual Landscape
 > in Ancient Cholula
 >
 > Richard Townsend (Art Institute of Chicago): From Landscape to Symbol at
 > Tezcotzingo and Mt. Tlaloc
 >
 > John B. Carlson (Center for Archaeoastronomy and University of Maryland,
 > College Park): La Malinche and San Miguel: Pilgrimage and Sacrifice to the
 > Mountains of Sustanence in the Mexican Altiplano
 >
 > Doris Heyden (DEAS-INAH: Direccion de Etnologia y Antropologia Social -
 > Instituto Nacional de Antropologiae Historia, Mexico): The Effect of
 > Natural Disasters on the Landscape of Mexico, and How These Created
 > Pilgrimage Centers: Caves, Mountains, etc."
 >
 > Please consider that the Symposium may continue until 1:30 p.m. when
 > making your travel arrangements
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 > REGISTRATION FORM
 >
 > Please register me for the Symposium:
 >
 > Pilgrimage and the Ritual Landscape in Pre-Columbian America
 > October 7-8, 2000
 >
 >
 > $40 fee enclosed $____________
 > $30 student fee enclosed $____________
 > $15 lunch fee enclosed for Oct.
 > $____________
 > TOTAL ENCLOSED $____________
 >
 >
 > PRINT name and affiliation as you wish them to appear on your
 > identification badge.
 >
 > Name_________________________________________________________
 >
 > Affiliation_____________________________________________________
 >
 > Work Phone_______________________________________________________
 >
 > Home Phone (optional____________________________________
 >
 > Mailing address (include your affiliation's name again if it is part of
 > your
 > address):_____________________________________________________________
 >
 > ______________________________________________________________
 >
 > ______________________________________________________________
 >
 > Email address______________________________________________________
 >
 > The registration fee must be paid by September 25th and is not refundable.
 > For lunch refund, cancellation must be received no later than September
 > 28th. Payment received after spaces have been filled will be returned.
 > Your registration will be acknowledged by postcard.
 >
 > Please mail this form with check payable to DUMBARTON OAKS to:
 >
 > Pre-Columbian Studies
 > Attn: Symposium
 > Dumbarton Oaks
 > 1703 32nd Street, NW
 > Washington, DC 20007
 >


From heatherhess at hotmail.com  Wed Jun 21 15:07:52 2000
From: heatherhess at hotmail.com (Heather Hess)
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 08:07:52 PDT
Subject: Dumbarton Oaks - Revised
Message-ID: <WED.21.JUN.2000.080752.PDT.>

Does this conference really only cost $40.00 U.S.!!!!  Where is Dumbarton
Oaks please.  I have read references to it in the book written with Thelma
Sullivan's translations but am not familiar with it!  However, I have wanted
to go there and this is my opportunity - wow - what an opportunity!
Yolohtzin


>From: "John F. Schwaller" <schwallr at selway.umt.edu>
>Reply-To: nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu
>To: nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu
>Subject: Dumbarton Oaks - Revised
>Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 11:03:45 -0600
>
>Please note that the Program contains several errors.  The conference will
>take place on October 7 & 8, 2000, Saturday and Sunday.
>
> > Subject: Dumbarton Oaks Pre-Columbian Studies Symposium, 7 & 8
> > October 2000, Organized by John B. Carlson
> >
> >
> >
> > Pre-Columbian Symposium
> > October 7 - 8 , 2000
> >
> > PILGRIMAGE AND THE RITUAL LANDSCAPE
> > IN PRE-COLUMBIAN AMERICA
> >
> > organized by
> >
> > John B. Carlson
> >
> >
> > Ancient Americans ordered the natural world on cosmological
> > principles. Mountains and springs, plains and rivers, were points and
> > channels of sacred power from historical events and timeless sacred
> > forces. Geographical features were inscribed by human hands to mark
>their
> > sacredness while temples and shrines replicated holy mountains, caves,
>and
> > water sources. Throughout the New World natural and constructed places
> > commonly became centers of pilgrimage in patterns often maintained to
>the
> > present.
> >
> > This symposium will explore sacred landscapes and pilgrimage in the
> > New World, drawing upon a few of the many examples available. The
> > perspective will be multi-disciplinary, cross-cultural, and examine
>wider
> > issues for understanding these issues beyond the New World.
> >
> > The lifetime work of two innovative, influential scholars will be
> > acknowledged in this Symposium. As active researchers, Doris Heyden,
> > Investigador Nacional and Anthropologist and Ethnohistorian at the
> > Direccion de Etnologia y Antropologia Social - Instituto Nacional de
> > Antropologia e Historia, Mexico, and Evon Z. Vogt, Professor Emeritus of
> > Anthropology at Harvard University will take a participatory role in the
> > symposium.
> >
> > The symposium is open to scholars and advanced graduate students. If you
> > wish to attend, please complete the enclosed registration form and
>return
> > it with the $40 registration fee ($30 for graduate students). This
>covers
> > admission to the scholarly sessions and the Saturday evening cocktail
> > party. Lunch is offered on Saturday by prior subscription for $15,
> > payable in advance with the registration fee. Deadline for registration
> > is September 25, but you are urged to respond as soon as possible. The
> > maximum number of participants is 200, accepted on a "first come, first
> > served" basis. Information on area hotels and taxis will be sent to you
> > when your registration is confirmed.
> >
> > Please bring this notice to the attention of appropriate colleagues
> > and students, who may use a duplicate of the form to register. Please
> > address all correspondence to:
> >
> > Pre-Columbian Studies, Dumbarton Oaks
> > 1703 32nd Street NW, Washington, DC 20007
> >
> > or email: Pre-Columbian at doaks.org
> >
> >
> >
> > * No registrations will be accepted via email.
> > * No fees are payable by credit card.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Tentative Agenda
> >
> > Pilgrimage and the Ritual Landscape in Pre-Columbian America
> >
> >
> > Friday, October 7, 2000
> >
> > 8:00 - 8:45 Registration, Coffee on the Terrace
> >
> > Morning Session
> >
> > Clive L. N. Ruggles (University of Leicester): Landscape Archaeology and
> > the Archaeology of Pilgrimage: A View from Across the Atlantic
> >
> > Sabine G. MacCormack (University of Michigan): Strangers and Pilgrims
> >
> > Helaine Silverman (University of Illinois at Champaign-Urbana):
>Pilgrimage
> > and Sacred Landscapes in Ancient Nazca
> >
> > Johan Reinhard (The Mountain Institute and National Geographic Society):
> > Sacred Mountains, Human Sacrifices, and Pilgrimages Among the Inca
> >
> > 12:30 - 2:00 Lunch at Dumbarton Oaks (by subscription)
> >
> >
> > Afternoon Session:
> >
> > Barbara Tedlock (State University of New York - Buffalo): Momostenango,
> > 'Town of Shrines': The Archaeological Implications of A Living Maya
> > Calendrical Pilgrimage Center
> >
> > Evon Z. Vogt (Harvard University): Micro-pilgimages to the Mountain and
> > Waterhole Shrines in the Tzotzil-Maya Community of Zinacantan
> >
> > Andrea Stone (University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee) and James Brady
> > (California State University-Los Angeles): The Road to Xibalba: Regional
> > Pilgrimage Caves in the Maya Area
> >
> > William L. Fash and David Stuart (Harvard University): Sacbes, Sacred
> > Mountains, and Ceremonial Circuits in the Copan Valley
> >
> > Stephen H. Lekson and Gretchen Jordan (University of Colorado-Boulder):
> > Landscape, Pilgrimage, and Power in the Ancient Southwest
> >
> > 5:30 - 7:00 Cocktail Reception
> > -over-
> >
> >
> >
> > Saturday, October 8th, 2000
> >
> > 8:30 - 9:00 Coffee on the Terrace
> >
> >
> > 9:00 - 12:30 Morning Session
> >
> > John M. D. Pohl (Independent Scholar) and Javier Urcid (Brandeis
> > University): Sacred Caves and Migration Legends as Allegories for
> > Postclassic Alliance and Exchange Networks
> >
> > Michael D. Lind (Independent Scholar): Pilgrimage and the Ritual
>Landscape
> > in Ancient Cholula
> >
> > Richard Townsend (Art Institute of Chicago): From Landscape to Symbol at
> > Tezcotzingo and Mt. Tlaloc
> >
> > John B. Carlson (Center for Archaeoastronomy and University of Maryland,
> > College Park): La Malinche and San Miguel: Pilgrimage and Sacrifice to
>the
> > Mountains of Sustanence in the Mexican Altiplano
> >
> > Doris Heyden (DEAS-INAH: Direccion de Etnologia y Antropologia Social -
> > Instituto Nacional de Antropologiae Historia, Mexico): The Effect of
> > Natural Disasters on the Landscape of Mexico, and How These Created
> > Pilgrimage Centers: Caves, Mountains, etc."
> >
> > Please consider that the Symposium may continue until 1:30 p.m. when
> > making your travel arrangements
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > REGISTRATION FORM
> >
> > Please register me for the Symposium:
> >
> > Pilgrimage and the Ritual Landscape in Pre-Columbian America
> > October 7-8, 2000
> >
> >
> > $40 fee enclosed $____________
> > $30 student fee enclosed $____________
> > $15 lunch fee enclosed for Oct.
> > $____________
> > TOTAL ENCLOSED $____________
> >
> >
> > PRINT name and affiliation as you wish them to appear on your
> > identification badge.
> >
> > Name_________________________________________________________
> >
> > Affiliation_____________________________________________________
> >
> > Work Phone_______________________________________________________
> >
> > Home Phone (optional____________________________________
> >
> > Mailing address (include your affiliation's name again if it is part of
> > your
> > address):_____________________________________________________________
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> >
> > Email address______________________________________________________
> >
> > The registration fee must be paid by September 25th and is not
>refundable.
> > For lunch refund, cancellation must be received no later than September
> > 28th. Payment received after spaces have been filled will be returned.
> > Your registration will be acknowledged by postcard.
> >
> > Please mail this form with check payable to DUMBARTON OAKS to:
> >
> > Pre-Columbian Studies
> > Attn: Symposium
> > Dumbarton Oaks
> > 1703 32nd Street, NW
> > Washington, DC 20007
> >
>

________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com


From schwallr at selway.umt.edu  Wed Jun 21 15:30:34 2000
From: schwallr at selway.umt.edu (John F. Schwaller)
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 09:30:34 -0600
Subject: Dumbarton Oaks - Revised
In-Reply-To: <20000621150752.82519.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <WED.21.JUN.2000.093034.0600.>

Dumbarton Oaks is located in Washington, DC, just north of Georgetown.  For
more information regarding  it see:

http://www.doaks.org/

Also, when replying to a long posting, please do NOT include the entirety
of the original message.

J. F. Schwaller
List Owner

John Frederick Schwaller                             schwallr at selway.umt.edu
Associate Provost                                        406-243-4722
The University of Montana                           FAX 406-243-5937
                           http://www.umt.edu/history/NAHUATL/


From pkurtboke at mail.hotkey.net.au  Fri Jun 23 07:13:24 2000
From: pkurtboke at mail.hotkey.net.au (P. Kurtboke)
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 17:13:24 +1000
Subject: New article
In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20000620092236.00bc6e20@selway.umt.edu>
Message-ID: <FRI.23.JUN.2000.171324.1000.>

>
>  Francis, Norbert
>"The shared conceptual system and language processing in bilingual children:
>Findings from literacy assessment in Spanish and Nahuatl. "
>_Applied linguistics_. vol.  21 num. 2  (JUN 01 2000), p. 170

Thanks for this most interesting reference and I'd like to contact the
author. If he's a subscriber to the list or if there are subscribers who
know him, his e-mail address would be much appreciated.

Petek


From schwallr at selway.umt.edu  Fri Jun 23 15:27:12 2000
From: schwallr at selway.umt.edu (John F. Schwaller)
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 09:27:12 -0600
Subject: Pre-Columbian Society of Washington, DC
Message-ID: <FRI.23.JUN.2000.092712.0600.>

The Pre-Columbian Society of Washington, DC will hold a one-day seminar
entitled:
"Are we Having Fun Yet?  Pleasurable Activities in Ancient America"
Satuday, September 16
US Navy Memorial and Naval Heritage Center
701 Pennsylvania Ave, NW
Washington DC

The scheduled speakers include:
Jeffrey Quilter, "At Work, Rest, or Play?  The Question of Leisure in
Ancient America"

Susan Today Evans, "'Mid Pleasures and Palaces: Aztec Nobles at Home and at
Play"

Jill Leslie McKeever-Furst, "Compulsory Play: The Leisure Activities of
Aztec Children and Youths"

Warren DeBoer, "Of Dice and Women: Gambling and Exchange in Native North
America"

Karl Taube, "American Gladiators: Competitive Combat in Ancient Mesoamerica"

Justin Kerr, "A Good Times was had by all:  Fun and Games among the Ancient
Maya"

For further information contact the Society:
Registration Coordinator
11104 Bucknell Dr.
Silver Spring, MD  20902-4432

Leisure at ancientamerica.net
John Frederick Schwaller                             schwallr at selway.umt.edu
Associate Provost                                        406-243-4722
The University of Montana                           FAX 406-243-5937
                           http://www.umt.edu/history/NAHUATL/


From Norbert.Francis at nau.edu  Fri Jun 23 16:37:59 2000
From: Norbert.Francis at nau.edu (Norbert Francis)
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 09:37:59 -0700
Subject: New article
In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20000623171324.007a58d0@pop.hotkey.net.au>
Message-ID: <FRI.23.JUN.2000.093759.0700.>

Thank you for your interest in our project.
Feel free to write to
norbert.francis at nau.edu
for more information.

>>
>>  Francis, Norbert
>>"The shared conceptual system and language processing in bilingual children:
>>Findings from literacy assessment in Spanish and Nahuatl. "
>>_Applied linguistics_. vol.  21 num. 2  (JUN 01 2000), p. 170
>
>Thanks for this most interesting reference and I'd like to contact the
>author. If he's a subscriber to the list or if there are subscribers who
>know him, his e-mail address would be much appreciated.
>
>Petek


From CHMuths at aol.com  Thu Jun 29 21:23:12 2000
From: CHMuths at aol.com (CHMuths at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 17:23:12 EDT
Subject: Language Families
Message-ID: <THU.29.JUN.2000.172312.EDT.>

Christa


From pkurtboke at mail.hotkey.net.au  Fri Jun 30 06:50:58 2000
From: pkurtboke at mail.hotkey.net.au (P. Kurtboke)
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 16:50:58 +1000
Subject: monosyllabic verbs, '-li', reviews
In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20000608171758.00794100@pop.hotkey.net.au>
Message-ID: <FRI.30.JUN.2000.165058.1000.>

Three questions:

1) A count of monosyllabic verbs in my corpus of Turkish displays 144. I
would like to know if there's a significant number of monosyllabic verbs in
Nahuatl?

2) '-li' is a very productive suffix in Turkish. Can someone say a few
words about its function in Nahuatl?

3) I'm reading Brian Hamnett's 'A Concise History of Mexico' (CUP 1999). Is
anyone aware of this book's reviews?

Thanks
Petek


From fjgs at servidor.unam.mx  Fri Jun  2 03:07:10 2000
From: fjgs at servidor.unam.mx (Ehecatecolotl)
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 21:07:10 -0600
Subject: 1st person honorifics?
Message-ID: <THU.1.JUN.2000.210710.0600.>

<<snip>>
> The books say that using honorifics of oneself in Nahuatl is not done
because
> it would seem too pompous. But are there any examples of it found in the
> literature. perhaps to achieve a special effect? (Chinese has an example:
a
> pronoun pronounced "ching", written by a special character, which could be
> fairly translated as {nehhua:tzin}; only the Emperor was allowed to use
it!)


I understand the honorific used for one?s self is acceptable if the person
is being condescendent to him/herself, conveying the meaning of "poor me,
incapable of such or such deed", therefore, the situation mentioned by
Francestzin applies just fine or when the person is ill, etc.


From tezozomoc at hotmail.com  Fri Jun  2 16:20:06 2000
From: tezozomoc at hotmail.com (Mr. Tezozomoc)
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 09:20:06 PDT
Subject: 1st person honorifics?
Message-ID: <FRI.2.JUN.2000.092006.PDT.>


The nahuatl people did not use it but the friars did certainly pump
themselves up.....

Here is a piece from Fray Juan Gaona's peace and tranquility:

Fray Ioa: de Gaona, sant
Francisco teopixqui, vei teotlatol-
matini.  Auh quinaxcan, occeppa
Yancuican oquimopatili, oquimoc
xitoquili, in cenca mauiztililoni to
tlazotatzin Fray Miguel de zasare
vei teotlatolmatini, yuan Comissa
rio gn~al itechpa in santa cruzada,
nica:ipa:


>From: "Ehecatecolotl" <fjgs at servidor.unam.mx>
>Reply-To: nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu
>To: <nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu>
>Subject: 1st person honorifics?
>Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 21:07:10 -0600
>
><<snip>>
> > The books say that using honorifics of oneself in Nahuatl is not done
>because
> > it would seem too pompous. But are there any examples of it found in the
> > literature. perhaps to achieve a special effect? (Chinese has an
>example:
>a
> > pronoun pronounced "ching", written by a special character, which could
>be
> > fairly translated as {nehhua:tzin}; only the Emperor was allowed to use
>it!)
>
>
>I understand the honorific used for one?s self is acceptable if the person
>is being condescendent to him/herself, conveying the meaning of "poor me,
>incapable of such or such deed", therefore, the situation mentioned by
>Francestzin applies just fine or when the person is ill, etc.
>
>
>
>



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From Amapohuani at aol.com  Fri Jun  2 18:35:49 2000
From: Amapohuani at aol.com (Amapohuani at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 14:35:49 EDT
Subject: 1st person honorifics?
Message-ID: <FRI.2.JUN.2000.143549.EDT.>

Listeros:

Re first person honorifics. The last posting is included at the end of this 
message. 

The citation is from one of the pages just preliminary to page one of fray 
Juan de Gaona's COLLOQVIOS DE la paz, y tranquilidad Christiana, en lengua 
Mexicana (1582, Pedro Ocharte). Fray Miguel de Zarate prepared this edition 
of his deceased colleague.  Zarate (under EXAMEN) twice indicates that he 
"corrected" the original, acting under the orders of the then-provincial of 
the Provincia del Santa Evangelio. Just before page one is a page that begins 
'COLLOQVIOS DE la paz" [etc.] that includes the information that they are 
"agora nueuamente corregidos, y anadidos, y puesta auctoridades, y citados 
los lugares por el muy. R. Padre Fray Miguel de carate" etc. [I leave out 
special characters since they do not go well over cyberspace.] What was cited 
is essentially a loose translation from the Spanish of this page to the 
Nahuatl of the next page where the citation is taken from.

This is standard Nahuatl for the subject matter and not more or less 
honorific than anything else you might encounter in similar texts, or even in 
those done by Nahuas for their own purposes; also see how Chimalpahin writes 
about various clerics. A Nahua or a cleric could have written it - literally, 
since Nahuas helped many times with texts (published or manuscript) and the 
author of record was more of a supervisor than the actual writer per se. In 
this case (see prologue in fray Juan Baptista's sermonario of 1606) we know 
that the trilingual (Latin/Nahuatl/Spanish) Nahua, Hernando de Ribas, who 
helped Molina with his grammar and dictionary, also apparently  helped Gaona 
with this work (called by Baptista "Dialogos" if I am not mistaken). 
Baptista's own extensive corpus was entirely co-authored by Augustin de la 
Fuente, who was also the "corrector de lengua" of fray Juan de Mijanos', OSA, 
ESPEJO DIUINO of 1607. 

In any case this is exactly how people wrote about themselves in such 
situations - not in the first person, but as if they were writing about 
someone else [and it may have been Ribas or some other Nahua who literally 
wrote the cited passage]. It would be an incompetent friar, and an even more 
incompetent Nahua teacher and aide of theirs, who would let any cleric write 
"nehuatzin" or the like. Literally using first-person honorifics in the first 
person would have made any Nahua aide/teacher shudder, and marked the friar 
as lingustically impaired. This brings to mind the passage in the BANCROFT 
DIALOGUES where the priest replies in a flat non-honorific Nahuatl to a 
query, and to Book 12 of the FLORENTINE CODEX where Cortes (through his 
interpreter) speaks in the same way - in a traditional Nahua context, real 
gaffes and marks (from a Nahua-centric point of view) of a complete barbarian 
[with apologies to any who feel I am slamming the barbarians too much].

In general, my take on the friars/clerics who used Nahuatl is that they were 
pretty careful about their use of honorific/reverential forms, perhaps too 
much so at times.

Ye ixquich.
Barry D. Sell  



In a message dated 6/2/00 8:24:45 AM, tezozomoc at hotmail.com writes:

<< The nahuatl people did not use it but the friars did certainly pump 
themselves up.....

Here is a piece from Fray Juan Gaona's peace and tranquility:

Fray Ioa: de Gaona, sant
Francisco teopixqui, vei teotlatol-
matini.  Auh quinaxcan, occeppa
Yancuican oquimopatili, oquimoc
xitoquili, in cenca mauiztililoni to
tlazotatzin Fray Miguel de zasare
vei teotlatolmatini, yuan Comissa
rio gn~al itechpa in santa cruzada,
nica:ipa:


>From: "Ehecatecolotl" <fjgs at servidor.unam.mx>
>Reply-To: nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu
>To: <nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu>
>Subject: 1st person honorifics?
>Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 21:07:10 -0600
>
><<snip>>
> > The books say that using honorifics of oneself in Nahuatl is not done
>because
> > it would seem too pompous. But are there any examples of it found in the
> > literature. perhaps to achieve a special effect? (Chinese has an 
>example:
>a
> > pronoun pronounced "ching", written by a special character, which could 
>be
> > fairly translated as {nehhua:tzin}; only the Emperor was allowed to use
>it!)
>
>
>I understand the honorific used for one?s self is acceptable if the person
>is being condescendent to him/herself, conveying the meaning of "poor me,
>incapable of such or such deed", therefore, the situation mentioned by
>Francestzin applies just fine or when the person is ill, etc. >>


From mdmorris at indiana.edu  Mon Jun  5 14:54:29 2000
From: mdmorris at indiana.edu (Mark David Morris)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 09:54:29 -0500
Subject: Language Families
In-Reply-To: <200005302031.QAA17883@nantucket.net>
Message-ID: <MON.5.JUN.2000.095429.0500.>

With so many good linguists on the list, I hope someone might confirm or
correct my understanding that neither Finnish, Hungarian nor Basque are
Indo-European languages.  Thanks,  Mark Morris



















~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
For with much wisdom comes much sorrow; the more knowledge, the more
grief. Eccl 1:18

To realize that our knowledge is ignorance, this is a noble insight. To
regard our ignorance as knowledge, this is mental sickness.  Only when we
are sick of our sickness, shall we cease to be sick.  The Sage is not
sick, being sick of sickness; This is the secret of health.  TTC 71

MDM, PhD Candidate
Dept. of History, Indiana Univ.


From J.Kremers at let.kun.nl  Mon Jun  5 15:40:42 2000
From: J.Kremers at let.kun.nl (Joost Kremers)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 17:40:42 +0200
Subject: Language Families
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.1000605095132.27886A-100000@lear.ucs.indiana .edu>
Message-ID: <MON.5.JUN.2000.174042.0200.>

At 09:54 5-6-00 -0500, you wrote:
>With so many good linguists on the list, I hope someone might confirm or
>correct my understanding that neither Finnish, Hungarian nor Basque are
>Indo-European languages.  Thanks,  Mark Morris


this, i can confirm. finnish and hungarian are part of the finno-ugric
language family (i.e., they're related, but about as mutually intelligible
as russian and english), and basque is an isolate. some seek ties between
basque and georgian, but AFAIK those ties have not been established.

HTH

joost kremers


--------------------------------------------------------
Joost Kremers (Mr.)
University of Nijmegen - The Netherlands
Department of Languages and Cultures of the Middle-East
PO Box 9103
6500 HD Nijmegen - The Netherlands
phone: +31 24 3612996
fax: +31 24 3611972


From robc at csufresno.edu  Mon Jun  5 16:45:20 2000
From: robc at csufresno.edu (Robert G. Comegys)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 09:45:20 -0700
Subject: Language Families
Message-ID: <MON.5.JUN.2000.094520.0700.>

Hi Mark,

Finnish and Hungarian are Turkish languages, although Hungarian has been
thoroughly saturated with Slavic loan words, something like the way English, a
good Germanic language,  is loaded with French. (My apologies to the Germans,
the French, and the English.)

Basque? Who knows. Its usually considered an isolate by most "responsible"
(read dull and uninteresting) scholars.

Regards,

John Comegys
Mark David Morris wrote:

> With so many good linguists on the list, I hope someone might confirm or
> correct my understanding that neither Finnish, Hungarian nor Basque are
> Indo-European languages.  Thanks,  Mark Morris
>


From mmccaffe at indiana.edu  Mon Jun  5 17:10:41 2000
From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael Mccafferty)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 12:10:41 -0500
Subject: Language Families
In-Reply-To: <393BD91D.4DF34877@csufresno.edu>
Message-ID: <MON.5.JUN.2000.121041.0500.>

On Mon, 5 Jun 2000, Robert G. Comegys wrote:

> Hi Mark,
>
> Finnish and Hungarian are Turkish languages, although Hungarian has been
> thoroughly saturated with Slavic loan words, something like the way English, a
> good Germanic language,  is loaded with French. (My apologies to the Germans,
> the French, and the English.)

Avoue'.
>
> Basque? Who knows. Its usually considered an isolate by most "responsible"
> (read dull and uninteresting) scholars.

John,

Does total lack of evidence imply that the scholars who have looked at the
matter are dull and uninteresting?  Correct me if I have
this wrong, but the Basque are a pre-Indo-European genetic-linguistic
group, ancient european inhabitants, and genetically connected to the
Irish. Who knows? Perhaps, they are also connected to the folks found near
the coast of Virginia in paleo-indian times that were mentioned recently
in the media.


Michael

>
> Regards,
>
> John Comegys
> Mark David Morris wrote:
>
> > With so many good linguists on the list, I hope someone might confirm or
> > correct my understanding that neither Finnish, Hungarian nor Basque are
> > Indo-European languages.  Thanks,  Mark Morris
> >
>
>


Michael McCafferty
307 Memorial Hall
Indiana University
Bloomington, Indiana
47405
mmccaffe at indiana.edu

*******************************************************************************
"So, who you gonna believe,
me or your own eyes?"

              -Chico Marx

*******************************************************************************


From mdmorris at indiana.edu  Mon Jun  5 17:46:52 2000
From: mdmorris at indiana.edu (Mark David Morris)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 12:46:52 -0500
Subject: Language Families
In-Reply-To: <393BD91D.4DF34877@csufresno.edu>
Message-ID: <MON.5.JUN.2000.124652.0500.>

Thank you all for the quick responses.  Now, I can print my footnotes.  I
had it understood from working as a folklore bibliographer for the MLA
that Hungarian and Finnish seem to show influence from Mongolia.  If you
have any quetions about classical Chinese intruments Imight be able to
squirt out a fact or two from the same storage bank.

mochantzinco,

Atlihuetzia Tlaxcala



















~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
For with much wisdom comes much sorrow; the more knowledge, the more
grief. Eccl 1:18

To realize that our knowledge is ignorance, this is a noble insight. To
regard our ignorance as knowledge, this is mental sickness.  Only when we
are sick of our sickness, shall we cease to be sick.  The Sage is not
sick, being sick of sickness; This is the secret of health.  TTC 71

MDM, PhD Candidate
Dept. of History, Indiana Univ.


From juergen.stowasser at univie.ac.at  Mon Jun  5 18:29:46 2000
From: juergen.stowasser at univie.ac.at (Juergen Stowasser)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 20:29:46 +0200
Subject: Language Families
Message-ID: <MON.5.JUN.2000.202946.0200.>

"Robert G. Comegys" schrieb:,

> Finnish and Hungarian are Turkish languages, --

as Joost Kremer already pointed, Finnish and Hungarian belong to the "Finno-Ugric"
language family (together with some smaller languages like Samojedic); the Turk
languages belong - as well as the Mongolic - to the "Altai"-family. Both Turk and
Finno-Ugric are agglutinative languages but I ?ve never heard of a "superfamily"
Finno-Ugric/Altai (but I?m not a linguist so maybe some list member can clear this
up)

                      Ciao, Juergen


Juergen Stowasser
Burggasse 114/2/8
A-1070 Wien - Vien(n)a
Austria
tel: 01/ 524 54 60
0676/ 398 66 79


From TruBluPooh at aol.com  Mon Jun  5 18:18:12 2000
From: TruBluPooh at aol.com (TruBluPooh at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 14:18:12 EDT
Subject: Language Families
Message-ID: <MON.5.JUN.2000.141812.EDT.>

Em uma mensagem de 6/5/00 11:56:09 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
mdmorris at indiana.edu escreveu:

<< With so many good linguists on the list, I hope someone might confirm or
 correct my understanding that neither Finnish, Hungarian nor Basque are
 Indo-European languages.  Thanks,  Mark Morris
  >>

You are correct in understanding that none of these languages are
Indo-European.  Finnish and Hungarian belong to the Finno-Ugric family along
with such languages as Estonian, Sami, Karelian, Nenets and Khanty.  Basque
is currently understood to be an isolate language, though a connection to
Georgian and other Caucasian languages is being pursued.  Other linguists
believe it may be related to some non-Arabic North African languages.  Yet,
others believe it to be entirely in situ.  The fact that some basic Basque
words seem to be derived from even simpler concepts i.e. aizkora (axe)
sharing the same root as the word aitz (rock) may mean that Basque is an
extremely old language.

John-Francis Fragoso Grasso


From karttu at nantucket.net  Mon Jun  5 22:19:17 2000
From: karttu at nantucket.net (Frances Karttunen)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 18:19:17 -0400
Subject: Language Families
Message-ID: <MON.5.JUN.2000.181917.0400.>

This is true.  Finnish and Hungarian belong to the Finno-Ugric language
family, and Basque is a language isolate.

Fran

----------
>From: Mark David Morris <mdmorris at indiana.edu>
>To: nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu
>Subject: Language Families
>Date: Mon, Jun 5, 2000, 10:54 AM
>

> With so many good linguists on the list, I hope someone might confirm or
> correct my understanding that neither Finnish, Hungarian nor Basque are
> Indo-European languages.  Thanks,  Mark Morris
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> For with much wisdom comes much sorrow; the more knowledge, the more
> grief. Eccl 1:18
>
> To realize that our knowledge is ignorance, this is a noble insight. To
> regard our ignorance as knowledge, this is mental sickness.  Only when we
> are sick of our sickness, shall we cease to be sick.  The Sage is not
> sick, being sick of sickness; This is the secret of health.  TTC 71
>
> MDM, PhD Candidate
> Dept. of History, Indiana Univ.
>
>


From karttu at nantucket.net  Mon Jun  5 22:24:24 2000
From: karttu at nantucket.net (Frances Karttunen)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 18:24:24 -0400
Subject: Language Families
Message-ID: <MON.5.JUN.2000.182424.0400.>

>
> Finnish and Hungarian are Turkish languages

This is not true.  Turkic languages and Finno-Ugric languages have some
typological similarities, but Finno-Ugric languages are not "Turkish
languages."

Fran Karttunen


From karttu at nantucket.net  Mon Jun  5 22:29:49 2000
From: karttu at nantucket.net (Frances Karttunen)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 18:29:49 -0400
Subject: Language Families
Message-ID: <MON.5.JUN.2000.182949.0400.>

> I had it understood from working as a folklore bibliographer for the MLA
> that Hungarian and Finnish seem to show influence from Mongolia.

There is no direct "influence from Mongolia" on Finnish.  There has been
some contact between Hungarian and Turkic languages in relatively recent
history.

Fran Karttunen


From micc at home.com  Tue Jun  6 04:34:10 2000
From: micc at home.com (mario)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 21:34:10 -0700
Subject: how do you say?
Message-ID: <MON.5.JUN.2000.213410.0700.>

I just received this request......can anyone help me?


Hey Compadre, I know your not sleeping yet. Anyway I just had a quick
question. How do you say in Nahuatl, You are my friend. Like if you were
talking to
your close friend and you wanted to tell him, your my friend.

Thanks!!!!!
mario e. aguilar


From mclssaa2 at fs2.mt.umist.ac.uk  Tue Jun  6 09:35:18 2000
From: mclssaa2 at fs2.mt.umist.ac.uk (Anthony Appleyard)
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 09:35:18 GMT
Subject: Language families
Message-ID: <TUE.6.JUN.2000.093518.GMT.>

  Frances Karttunen <karttu at nantucket.net> wrote;-
> There is no direct "influence from Mongolia" on Finnish.  There has been
> some contact between Hungarian and Turkic languages in relatively recent
> history.

There is the inevitable quota of accidental resemblances between unrelated
languages, e.g. Gaelic "beag" = Mongolian "baga" = "small", and Greek "theos"
= Nahuatl "teotl" = "god".

Someone compared modern English with modern Hindi (ignoring recent loanwords).
Of the look-alike words that he found, more were accidental resemblances than
genuine cognates. Languages gradually drift away from each other.

Someone mentioned Basque. My own ideas about Basque are:-
  (1) It might have been very distantly related to other non-IE languages
whose speakers came in up the west end of the Mediterranean: Iberian, Ivernian
(an old Irish language), Pictish. But all those languages perished unrecorded.
  (2) Basque may have undergone a drastic remake in latish prehistoric times,
destroying any remaining evidence for old relationships.

  TruBluPooh at aol.com wrote:-
> The fact that some basic Basque words seem to be derived from even simpler
> concepts i.e. aizkora (axe) sharing the same root as the word aitz (rock)
> may mean that Basque is an extremely old language.

But what is an "old language"? Nearly all languages have very old roots.

"aizkora" being an apparent compound may mean merely that a previous simple
word for "axe" because unusable because of homophony due to phonetic change.


From mmccaffe at indiana.edu  Tue Jun  6 11:17:20 2000
From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael Mccafferty)
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 06:17:20 -0500
Subject: how do you say?
In-Reply-To: <393C7F42.CC1FD5EC@home.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.6.JUN.2000.061720.0500.>

tinocniuh (classical)

tica nocnin (modern)



On Mon, 5 Jun 2000, mario wrote:

> I just received this request......can anyone help me?
>
>
> Hey Compadre, I know your not sleeping yet. Anyway I just had a quick
> question. How do you say in Nahuatl, You are my friend. Like if you were
> talking to
> your close friend and you wanted to tell him, your my friend.
>
> Thanks!!!!!
> mario e. aguilar
>
>


Michael McCafferty
307 Memorial Hall
Indiana University
Bloomington, Indiana
47405
mmccaffe at indiana.edu

*******************************************************************************
"So, who you gonna believe,
me or your own eyes?"

              -Chico Marx

*******************************************************************************


From jsullivan at prodigy.net.mx  Tue Jun  6 14:06:01 2000
From: jsullivan at prodigy.net.mx (John Sullivan)
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 09:06:01 -0500
Subject: how do you say?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.1000606061650.4508E-100000@ariel.ucs.indiana.edu>
Message-ID: <TUE.6.JUN.2000.090601.0500.>

Modern Huastecan Nahuatl (San Luis Potos?):
"Taj tinowampox" or "Taj tinowampoyo"

    John Sullivan
    Universidad Aut?noma de Zacatecas



on 6/6/00 6:17 AM, Michael Mccafferty at mmccaffe at indiana.edu wrote:

> tinocniuh (classical)
> 
> tica nocnin (modern)
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, 5 Jun 2000, mario wrote:
> 
>> I just received this request......can anyone help me?
>> 
>> 
>> Hey Compadre, I know your not sleeping yet. Anyway I just had a quick
>> question. How do you say in Nahuatl, You are my friend. Like if you were
>> talking to
>> your close friend and you wanted to tell him, your my friend.
>> 
>> Thanks!!!!!
>> mario e. aguilar
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> Michael McCafferty
> 307 Memorial Hall
> Indiana University
> Bloomington, Indiana
> 47405
> mmccaffe at indiana.edu
> 
> 
****************************************************************************
**> *
> "So, who you gonna believe,
> me or your own eyes?"
> 
> -Chico Marx
> 
> 
****************************************************************************
**> *
> 
> 


From micc at home.com  Tue Jun  6 14:14:53 2000
From: micc at home.com (mario)
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 07:14:53 -0700
Subject: how do you say?
Message-ID: <TUE.6.JUN.2000.071453.0700.>

Thanks Michael!!!!!!!!




Michael Mccafferty wrote:

> tinocniuh (classical)
>
> tica nocnin (modern)
>
> On Mon, 5 Jun 2000, mario wrote:
>
> > I just received this request......can anyone help me?
> >
> >
> > Hey Compadre, I know your not sleeping yet. Anyway I just had a quick
> > question. How do you say in Nahuatl, You are my friend. Like if you were
> > talking to
> > your close friend and you wanted to tell him, your my friend.
> >
> > Thanks!!!!!
> > mario e. aguilar
> >
> >
>
> Michael McCafferty
> 307 Memorial Hall
> Indiana University
> Bloomington, Indiana
> 47405
> mmccaffe at indiana.edu
>
> *******************************************************************************
> "So, who you gonna believe,
> me or your own eyes?"
>
>               -Chico Marx
>
> *******************************************************************************


From leonelhermida at netc.pt  Tue Jun  6 14:52:31 2000
From: leonelhermida at netc.pt (Leonel Hermida)
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 15:52:31 +0100
Subject: Language Families
Message-ID: <TUE.6.JUN.2000.155231.0100.>

Further to the remark that:

>The fact that some basic Basque 
>words seem to be derived from even simpler concepts i.e. aizkora (axe) 
>sharing the same root as the word aitz (rock) may mean that Basque is an 
>extremely old language,

and in the same sense, I apologize for being off-topic, but can't fail to draw attention 
to the following very basic Basque words which I'm sure all share the same (pre-historic and 
exceedingly primitive) root, though I've never seen that stated before 
by any professional linguist:

EME=female
AMA=mother
EMAKUME=woman
EMAZTE= woman, wife
UME=child 
SEME=son

On the other hand, I did see it stated by more than one competent linguist (sources available
if requested) that the putative (genetic) relationship postulated by some between the Uralic 
(Finnish, Hungarian, etc.) language family and the Turkic language family (this being 
known as the Ural-Altaic hypothesis) is far from being proved at all.
Of course the statement that Finnish and/or Hungarian are Turkic languages 
('Turkish' in stead of 'Turkic' would even be worse) was *never* seriously put 
forth by any professional (or even amateur) linguist and is, as Fran plainly put it, 
not true. 
One last thing while I have your attention, is about the influence of Mongolian on at least one Uralic 
language, namely Hungarian: it comes to the mind the word *b?tor* meaning *brave* which apart 
from being  a fairly common word in Hungarian enters in the very name of the capital city of Mongolia 
(Ulaan Baator, I think). This must be attributed to historical contact between Turkic and Uralic (better,
Hungarian and a few others) on one side and Turkic and Mongolian on the other, rather than being 
evidence of any (genetic) relationship whatsoever between Uralic and Mongolian.

Best, 

Leonel Hermida

-----Original Message-----
From: TruBluPooh at aol.com <TruBluPooh at aol.com>
To: nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu <nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu>
Date: Monday, June 05, 2000 7:25 PM
Subject: Re: Language Families


>Basque is currently understood to be an isolate language, though a connection to 
>Georgian and other Caucasian languages is being pursued.  Other linguists 
>believe it may be related to some non-Arabic North African languages.  Yet, 
>others believe it to be entirely in situ.  The fact that some basic Basque 
>words seem to be derived from even simpler concepts i.e. aizkora (axe) 
>sharing the same root as the word aitz (rock) may mean that Basque is an 
>extremely old language.
>
>John-Francis Fragoso Grasso


From anthony.appleyard at umist.ac.uk  Tue Jun  6 19:58:47 2000
From: anthony.appleyard at umist.ac.uk (anthony.appleyard at umist.ac.uk)
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 20:58:47 +0100
Subject: Basque and other relationships
Message-ID: <TUE.6.JUN.2000.205847.0100.>

  Leonel Hermida <leonelhermida at netc.pt> wrote:
>  I apologize for being off-topic, but can't fail to draw attention
> to the following very basic Basque words which I'm sure all share the
> same (pre-historic and exceedingly primitive) root ...

EME=female
AMA=mother
EMAKUME=woman
EMAZTE= woman, wife
UME=child
SEME=son

This sort of thing about Basque has been discussed to exhaustion on
INDO-EUROPEAN and NOSTRATIC email groups.
Words for females with M in are not free from the suspicion of
originating with the meaning "mother" or "breast" and being
independently imitated ultimately from the same automatic pre-speech
suckling noises that babies make. Baby words are likely to get into
adult speech as stopgaps when the previous adult words become unusable
because of homophony: compare English "nanny" for "child's nurse" to
distinguish from "hospital nurse".

The Basque speakers have been ruled by Indo-European speakers for so
long that many loanwords are likely to have got in, even for family
relationships. Compare: English is Germanic, but "uncle" comes from
Latin "avunculus".

> ... the influence of Mongolian on at least one Uralic language, namely
> Hungarian: it comes to the mind the word *b?tor* meaning *brave* which
> apart from being  a fairly common word in Hungarian enters in the very
> name of the capital city of Mongolia (Ulaan Baator, I think).

The Mongols under Batu Khan (he was Genghis's son, I think) overran
Hungary. It is no wonder a stray loanword got across. The word also got
into Hindi as "bahadur".


From schwallr at selway.umt.edu  Tue Jun  6 20:30:36 2000
From: schwallr at selway.umt.edu (John F. Schwaller)
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 14:30:36 -0600
Subject: Basque and other relationships
In-Reply-To: <s+GGSCA3fVP5EwSH@buckrogers.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <TUE.6.JUN.2000.143036.0600.>

OK, folks.  Thank you for your enlightenment regarding Basque and other
European languages.  I'm afraid that I must step in and call a halt to this
line of discussion, as it really has little to do with Nahuatl.

Thank you.

J. F. Schwaller
List owner


John Frederick Schwaller                             schwallr at selway.umt.edu
Associate Provost                                        406-243-4722
The University of Montana                           FAX 406-243-5937
                          http://www.umt.edu/history/NAHUATL/


From mmccaffe at indiana.edu  Tue Jun  6 20:30:25 2000
From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael Mccafferty)
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 15:30:25 -0500
Subject: Basque and other relationships
In-Reply-To: <s+GGSCA3fVP5EwSH@buckrogers.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <TUE.6.JUN.2000.153025.0500.>

> 
> The Basque speakers have been ruled by Indo-European speakers for so
> long that many loanwords are likely to have got in, even for family
> relationships. Compare: English is Germanic, but "uncle" comes from
> Latin "avunculus".
> 
> > ... the influence of Mongolian on at least one Uralic language, namely
> > Hungarian: it comes to the mind the word *b?tor* meaning *brave* which
> > apart from being  a fairly common word in Hungarian enters in the very
> > name of the capital city of Mongolia (Ulaan Baator, I think). 
> 
> The Mongols under Batu Khan (he was Genghis's son, I think) overran
> Hungary. It is no wonder a stray loanword got across. The word also got
> into Hindi as "bahadur".


Loan words are a source of mystery. Consider Miami-Illinois, a Great Lakes
Algonquian language, in which the word for "eight" is a borrowing from
Siouan Tutelo. How in the devil that happened is anybody's guess.

Michael


From jrader at m-w.com  Tue Jun  6 17:03:36 2000
From: jrader at m-w.com (Jim Rader)
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 17:03:36 +0000
Subject: Basque and other relationships
Message-ID: <TUE.6.JUN.2000.170336.0000.>

> > ... the influence of Mongolian on at least one Uralic language, namely
> > Hungarian: it comes to the mind the word *bator* meaning *brave* which
> > apart from being  a fairly common word in Hungarian enters in the very
> > name of the capital city of Mongolia (Ulaan Baator, I think).
>
> The Mongols under Batu Khan (he was Genghis's son, I think) overran
> Hungary. It is no wonder a stray loanword got across. The word also got
> into Hindi as "bahadur".
>
>

WAY off the topic of this list, but this etymon probably originated
in Turkic and was borrowed into Mongolian.  Gerard Clauson thought
<bag^a:tu:r> was itself a loanword into Turkic from a Xiongnu
personal name.  From Turkic the word was borrowed into Persian and
hence into Indo-Aryan languages such as Hindi, and back into some
Turkic languages from Persian.  Hungarian <ba/tor> was borrowed from
Turkic, not Mongolian; direct Hungarian contact with the Mongols was
slight.  Also from Turkic, directly or indirectly, are words for
"hero" in various Slavic languages (Russian <bogatyr'>, Polish
<bohater>, etc.).  To correct something said in an earlier post:
Hungarian has a number of loanwords from Slavic, but the Slavic
influence on Hungarian is not at all comparable to the French
influence on English.

Enough--let's get back to Nahuatl.

Jim Rader


From robc at csufresno.edu  Wed Jun  7 01:48:03 2000
From: robc at csufresno.edu (Robert G. Comegys)
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 18:48:03 -0700
Subject: Language Families, my apologies
Message-ID: <TUE.6.JUN.2000.184803.0700.>

My apologies to the group for mislabeling conclusions drawn from other sources as
"linguistic". No, actually I am not a linguist, and will certainly remember
this better in the future.  Usually I am very careful to not overstate
conclusions and to cite sourtces. Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.  I
will resume my place in
the back of the class and try to learn something of nahuat-l.  John Comegys


>
> Mark David Morris wrote:
>
> > With so many good linguists on the list, I hope someone might confirm or
> > correct my understanding that neither Finnish, Hungarian nor Basque are
> > Indo-European languages.  Thanks,  Mark Morris
> >


From aows at swbell.net  Wed Jun  7 16:33:02 2000
From: aows at swbell.net (Alexander Wallace)
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 10:33:02 -0600
Subject: Catalan: NOY
In-Reply-To: <s+GGSCA3fVP5EwSH@buckrogers.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <WED.7.JUN.2000.103302.0600.>

I'm sorry, I know this is way off topic, but I can't find the translation
from Cataln of the word NOY, either to spanish or english, and since out
there in the list there might be people with knowledg about this I just
thought I'd ask....

Thanks!

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu
[mailto:owner-nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu]On Behalf Of
anthony.appleyard at umist.ac.uk
Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2000 1:59 PM
To: nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu
Cc: anthony.appleyard at umist.ac.uk
Subject: Basque and other relationships


  Leonel Hermida <leonelhermida at netc.pt> wrote:
>  I apologize for being off-topic, but can't fail to draw attention
> to the following very basic Basque words which I'm sure all share the
> same (pre-historic and exceedingly primitive) root ...

EME=female
AMA=mother
EMAKUME=woman
EMAZTE= woman, wife
UME=child
SEME=son

This sort of thing about Basque has been discussed to exhaustion on
INDO-EUROPEAN and NOSTRATIC email groups.
Words for females with M in are not free from the suspicion of
originating with the meaning "mother" or "breast" and being
independently imitated ultimately from the same automatic pre-speech
suckling noises that babies make. Baby words are likely to get into
adult speech as stopgaps when the previous adult words become unusable
because of homophony: compare English "nanny" for "child's nurse" to
distinguish from "hospital nurse".

The Basque speakers have been ruled by Indo-European speakers for so
long that many loanwords are likely to have got in, even for family
relationships. Compare: English is Germanic, but "uncle" comes from
Latin "avunculus".

> ... the influence of Mongolian on at least one Uralic language, namely
> Hungarian: it comes to the mind the word *b?tor* meaning *brave* which
> apart from being  a fairly common word in Hungarian enters in the very
> name of the capital city of Mongolia (Ulaan Baator, I think).

The Mongols under Batu Khan (he was Genghis's son, I think) overran
Hungary. It is no wonder a stray loanword got across. The word also got
into Hindi as "bahadur".


From nahualli at highfiber.com  Wed Jun  7 19:26:28 2000
From: nahualli at highfiber.com (Brant Gardner)
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 13:26:28 -0600
Subject: Catalan: NOY
In-Reply-To: <001401bfd09e$0cf75850$e3706f6e@quetzalcoatl>
Message-ID: <WED.7.JUN.2000.132628.0600.>

I do not speak Catalan, but do have a Catalan-Spanish dictionary. It gives
the word as NOI and translates it chico/muchacho (young man)

___________________

Brant Gardner
Albuquerque, NM
nahualli at highfiber.com


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu
[mailto:owner-nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu]On Behalf Of Alexander Wallace
Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2000 10:33 AM
To: nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu
Subject: Catalan: NOY


I'm sorry, I know this is way off topic, but I can't find the translation
from Cataln of the word NOY, either to spanish or english, and since out
there in the list there might be people with knowledg about this I just
thought I'd ask....

Thanks!

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu
[mailto:owner-nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu]On Behalf Of
anthony.appleyard at umist.ac.uk
Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2000 1:59 PM
To: nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu
Cc: anthony.appleyard at umist.ac.uk
Subject: Basque and other relationships


  Leonel Hermida <leonelhermida at netc.pt> wrote:
>  I apologize for being off-topic, but can't fail to draw attention
> to the following very basic Basque words which I'm sure all share the
> same (pre-historic and exceedingly primitive) root ...

EME=female
AMA=mother
EMAKUME=woman
EMAZTE= woman, wife
UME=child
SEME=son

This sort of thing about Basque has been discussed to exhaustion on
INDO-EUROPEAN and NOSTRATIC email groups.
Words for females with M in are not free from the suspicion of
originating with the meaning "mother" or "breast" and being
independently imitated ultimately from the same automatic pre-speech
suckling noises that babies make. Baby words are likely to get into
adult speech as stopgaps when the previous adult words become unusable
because of homophony: compare English "nanny" for "child's nurse" to
distinguish from "hospital nurse".

The Basque speakers have been ruled by Indo-European speakers for so
long that many loanwords are likely to have got in, even for family
relationships. Compare: English is Germanic, but "uncle" comes from
Latin "avunculus".

> ... the influence of Mongolian on at least one Uralic language, namely
> Hungarian: it comes to the mind the word *b?tor* meaning *brave* which
> apart from being  a fairly common word in Hungarian enters in the very
> name of the capital city of Mongolia (Ulaan Baator, I think).

The Mongols under Batu Khan (he was Genghis's son, I think) overran
Hungary. It is no wonder a stray loanword got across. The word also got
into Hindi as "bahadur".


From pkurtboke at mail.hotkey.net.au  Thu Jun  8 07:17:58 2000
From: pkurtboke at mail.hotkey.net.au (P. Kurtboke)
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 17:17:58 +1000
Subject: Basque and other relationships
In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20000606143036.00b55870@selway.umt.edu>
Message-ID: <THU.8.JUN.2000.171758.1000.>

Incidentally, Basque, Turkish, Hungarian, Finnish and a few more happen to
agglutinate.

Those dealing with parsers and other analysis tools for these languages
might have a bit more than little to do with Nahuatl...After all, we all
try to reveal the mysteries of affix combinations in our respective
languages and might all benefit from collaboration.

Petek

ps 'tepe' in Turkish means 'hill'


>OK, folks.  Thank you for your enlightenment regarding Basque and other
>European languages.  I'm afraid that I must step in and call a halt to this
>line of discussion, as it really has little to do with Nahuatl.
>
>Thank you.
>
>J. F. Schwaller
>List owner
>


From mclssaa2 at fs2.mt.umist.ac.uk  Thu Jun  8 10:14:13 2000
From: mclssaa2 at fs2.mt.umist.ac.uk (Anthony Appleyard)
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 10:14:13 GMT
Subject: (parsers (was: Re: Language families)
Message-ID: <THU.8.JUN.2000.101413.GMT.>

  J. F. Schwaller reminded us that Basque etc is off-topic for this group.

  "P. Kurtboke" <pkurtboke at mail.hotkey.net.au> answered:-
> Incidentally, Basque, Turkish, Hungarian, Finnish and a few more happen to
> agglutinate. Those dealing with parsers and other analysis tools for these
> languages might have a bit more than little to do with Nahuatl...After all,
> we all try to reveal the mysteries of affix combinations in our respective
> languages and might all benefit from collaboration.

I have written a parser / auto-translater program for an agglutinating
language - for the invented Star Trek Klingon language, which is more regular
than natural languages tend to be. I wrote it individually for that language,
in Gnu C++ for DOS, not using any programmable parser format like YACC or etc.
I could try to adapt it for Nahuatl (and Windows) if I had to, but coping with
spelling rule variations and the results of assimilations etc at morpheme
junctions would add complications.


From pkurtboke at mail.hotkey.net.au  Thu Jun  8 10:16:10 2000
From: pkurtboke at mail.hotkey.net.au (P. Kurtboke)
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 20:16:10 +1000
Subject: (parsers (was: Re: Language families)
In-Reply-To: <32E58731C94@fs2.mt.umist.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <THU.8.JUN.2000.201610.1000.>

At 10:14 AM 6/8/00 GMT, you wrote:
>  J. F. Schwaller reminded us that Basque etc is off-topic for this group.

Anthony, my message was not about that. I was simply hesitant to change the
subject line and thought long about it before posting my message.
>
>I have written a parser / auto-translater program for an agglutinating
>language - for the invented Star Trek Klingon language, which is more
regular
>than natural languages tend to be. I wrote it individually for that
language,
>in Gnu C++ for DOS, not using any programmable parser format like YACC or
etc.
>I could try to adapt it for Nahuatl (and Windows) if I had to, but coping
with
>spelling rule variations and the results of assimilations etc at morpheme
>junctions would add complications.
>
You're welcome to try it on my corpus of 1000 Turkish texts.

Petek


From aows at swbell.net  Thu Jun  8 15:30:21 2000
From: aows at swbell.net (Alexander Wallace)
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 09:30:21 -0600
Subject: Catalan: NOY: Thanks!
In-Reply-To: <000001bfd0b7$5efd14a0$3d822a40@brantg>
Message-ID: <THU.8.JUN.2000.093021.0600.>

I thank everyone for helping me with that word. For some reason I have it as
NOY, but it may by just a typo, it is the title of a popular (clasic)
catalan song: EL NOY (noi?) DE LA MARE. El chico de mama'? Makes sense...

Thanks again!

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu
[mailto:owner-nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu]On Behalf Of Brant Gardner
Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2000 1:26 PM
To: nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu
Subject: RE: Catalan: NOY


I do not speak Catalan, but do have a Catalan-Spanish dictionary. It gives
the word as NOI and translates it chico/muchacho (young man)

___________________

Brant Gardner
Albuquerque, NM
nahualli at highfiber.com


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu
[mailto:owner-nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu]On Behalf Of Alexander Wallace
Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2000 10:33 AM
To: nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu
Subject: Catalan: NOY


I'm sorry, I know this is way off topic, but I can't find the translation
from Cataln of the word NOY, either to spanish or english, and since out
there in the list there might be people with knowledg about this I just
thought I'd ask....

Thanks!

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu
[mailto:owner-nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu]On Behalf Of
anthony.appleyard at umist.ac.uk
Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2000 1:59 PM
To: nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu
Cc: anthony.appleyard at umist.ac.uk
Subject: Basque and other relationships


  Leonel Hermida <leonelhermida at netc.pt> wrote:
>  I apologize for being off-topic, but can't fail to draw attention
> to the following very basic Basque words which I'm sure all share the
> same (pre-historic and exceedingly primitive) root ...

EME=female
AMA=mother
EMAKUME=woman
EMAZTE= woman, wife
UME=child
SEME=son

This sort of thing about Basque has been discussed to exhaustion on
INDO-EUROPEAN and NOSTRATIC email groups.
Words for females with M in are not free from the suspicion of
originating with the meaning "mother" or "breast" and being
independently imitated ultimately from the same automatic pre-speech
suckling noises that babies make. Baby words are likely to get into
adult speech as stopgaps when the previous adult words become unusable
because of homophony: compare English "nanny" for "child's nurse" to
distinguish from "hospital nurse".

The Basque speakers have been ruled by Indo-European speakers for so
long that many loanwords are likely to have got in, even for family
relationships. Compare: English is Germanic, but "uncle" comes from
Latin "avunculus".

> ... the influence of Mongolian on at least one Uralic language, namely
> Hungarian: it comes to the mind the word *b?tor* meaning *brave* which
> apart from being  a fairly common word in Hungarian enters in the very
> name of the capital city of Mongolia (Ulaan Baator, I think).

The Mongols under Batu Khan (he was Genghis's son, I think) overran
Hungary. It is no wonder a stray loanword got across. The word also got
into Hindi as "bahadur".


From RCRAPO at hass3.hass.usu.edu  Mon Jun 12 21:07:22 2000
From: RCRAPO at hass3.hass.usu.edu (Richley Crapo)
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 15:07:22 -0600
Subject: Aztec Idioms
Message-ID: <MON.12.JUN.2000.150722.0600.>

Is "cuali eztli" an original Nahuatl idiom for "of noble lineage", or is this more likely a loan-translation from Spanish into Nahuatl?

richley


From alina at dir.bg  Thu Jun 15 12:40:50 2000
From: alina at dir.bg (Maria)
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 15:40:50 0300
Subject: ense&ntilde;anza de nahuatl
Message-ID: <THU.15.JUN.2000.154050.0300.>

Estimados amigos:
permitenme saludarles y presentarme - me llamo Mar&iacute;a Guergu&iacute;eva y soy una enamorada de la cultura mexicana, en general, y de la nahua, en particular, estoy haciendo la carrera de Letras Hisp&aacute;nicas en la Universidad de Sof&iacute;a y en el momento actual me dedico a la traducci&oacute;n de poes&iacute;a azteca /en la versi&oacute;n al castellano de &Aacute;ngel Garibay y de Miguel Le&oacute;n-Portilla/. Mi sue&ntilde;o e intenci&oacute;n es estudiar en un futuro pr&oacute;ximo la lengua nahuatl para llevar a cabo una mejor traducci&oacute;n de los textos. Les ser&iacute;a enormemente agradecida si alguno de Ustedes pudiera informarmarme acerca de la ense&ntilde;anza del idioma n&aacute;huatl:d&oacute;nde se ense&ntilde;a, cu&aacute;les son los requisitos de admisi&oacute;n, etc...
Gracias de antemano:
Mar&iacute;a

----------------------------------------------------
????????? ???? ?? dir.bg! Free e-mail from dir.bg!
http://www.dir.bg
----------------------------------------------------


From schwallr at selway.umt.edu  Tue Jun 20 15:24:46 2000
From: schwallr at selway.umt.edu (John F. Schwaller)
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 09:24:46 -0600
Subject: New article
Message-ID: <TUE.20.JUN.2000.092446.0600.>

  Francis, Norbert
"The shared conceptual system and language processing in bilingual children:
Findings from literacy assessment in Spanish and Nahuatl. "
_Applied linguistics_. vol.  21 num. 2  (JUN 01 2000), p. 170
John Frederick Schwaller                             schwallr at selway.umt.edu
Associate Provost                                        406-243-4722
The University of Montana                           FAX 406-243-5937
                           http://www.umt.edu/history/NAHUATL/


From schwallr at selway.umt.edu  Tue Jun 20 16:39:50 2000
From: schwallr at selway.umt.edu (John F. Schwaller)
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 10:39:50 -0600
Subject: Fwd: Dumbarton Oaks Pre-Columbian Studies Symposium, 7 & 8
 October 200 0,  Organized by John B. Carlson
Message-ID: <TUE.20.JUN.2000.103950.0600.>

>From: "Willson, Rebecca" <WillsonR at DOAKS.org>
>Subject: Dumbarton Oaks Pre-Columbian Studies Symposium, 7 & 8 October 200
>         0,  Organized by John B. Carlson
>Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 12:13:40 -0400
>
>
> > Pre-Columbian Symposium
>October   7 - 8 , 2000
>
> > PILGRIMAGE AND THE RITUAL LANDSCAPE
> > IN PRE-COLUMBIAN AMERICA
> >
> > organized by
> >
> > John B. Carlson
> >
> >
> >       Ancient Americans ordered the natural world on cosmological
> > principles.  Mountains and springs, plains and rivers, were points and
> > channels of sacred power from historical events and timeless sacred
> > forces.  Geographical features were inscribed by human hands to mark their
> > sacredness while temples and shrines replicated holy mountains, caves, and
> > water sources.  Throughout the New World natural and constructed places
> > commonly became centers of pilgrimage in patterns often maintained to the
> > present.
> >
> >       This symposium will explore sacred landscapes and pilgrimage in the
> > New World, drawing upon a few of the many examples available.  The
> > perspective will be multi-disciplinary, cross-cultural, and examine wider
> > issues for understanding these issues beyond the New World.
> >
> >       The lifetime work of two innovative, influential scholars will be
> > acknowledged in this Symposium.  As active researchers, Doris Heyden,
> > Investigador Nacional and Anthropologist and Ethnohistorian at the
> > Direccion de Etnologia y Antropologia Social - Instituto Nacional de
> > Antropologia e Historia, Mexico, and Evon Z. Vogt, Professor Emeritus of
> > Anthropology at Harvard University will take a participatory role in the
> > symposium.
> >
> > The symposium is open to scholars and advanced graduate students.  If you
> > wish to attend, please complete the enclosed registration form and return
> > it with the $40 registration fee ($30 for graduate students).  This covers
> > admission to the scholarly sessions and the Saturday evening cocktail
> > party.  Lunch is offered on Saturday by prior subscription for $15,
> > payable in advance with the registration fee.  Deadline for registration
> > is September 24, but you are urged to respond as soon as possible. The
> > maximum number of participants is 200, accepted on a "first come, first
> > served" basis.  Information on area hotels and taxis will be sent to you
> > when your registration is confirmed.
> >
> >       Please bring this notice to the attention of appropriate colleagues
> > and students, who may use a duplicate of the form to register. Please
> > address all correspondence to:
> >
> > Pre-Columbian Studies, Dumbarton Oaks
> > 1703 32nd Street NW, Washington, DC 20007
> >
> > or email: Pre-Columbian at doaks.org
> >
> >
> >
> > * No registrations will be accepted via email.
> > * No fees are payable by credit card.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Tentative Agenda
> >
> > Pilgrimage and the Ritual Landscape in Pre-Columbian America
> >
> >
> > Saturday, October 8, 2000
> >
> > 8:00 - 8:45   Registration, Coffee on the Terrace
> >
> > Morning Session
> >
> > Clive L. N. Ruggles (University of Leicester): Landscape Archaeology and
> > the Archaeology of Pilgrimage: A View from Across the Atlantic
> >
> > Sabine G. MacCormack (University of Michigan): Strangers and Pilgrims
> >
> > Helaine Silverman (University of Illinois at Champaign-Urbana): Pilgrimage
> > and Sacred Landscapes in Ancient Nazca
> >
> > Johan Reinhard (The Mountain Institute and National Geographic Society):
> > Sacred Mountains, Human Sacrifices, and Pilgrimages Among the Inca
> >
> > 12:30 - 2:00  Lunch at Dumbarton Oaks (by subscription)
> >
> >
> > Afternoon Session:
> >
> > Barbara Tedlock (State University of New York - Buffalo): Momostenango,
> > 'Town of Shrines': The Archaeological Implications of A Living Maya
> > Calendrical Pilgrimage Center
> >
> > Evon Z. Vogt (Harvard University): Micro-pilgimages to the Mountain and
> > Waterhole Shrines in the Tzotzil-Maya Community of Zinacantan
> >
> > Andrea Stone (University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee) and James Brady
> > (California State University-Los Angeles): The Road to Xibalba: Regional
> > Pilgrimage Caves in the Maya Area
> >
> > William L. Fash and David Stuart (Harvard University): Sacbes, Sacred
> > Mountains, and Ceremonial Circuits in the Copan Valley
> >
> > Stephen H. Lekson and Gretchen Jordan (University of Colorado-Boulder):
> > Landscape, Pilgrimage, and Power in the Ancient Southwest
> >
> > 5:30 - 7:00   Cocktail Reception
> > -over-
> >
> >
> >
> > Sunday, October 10, 1999
> >
> > 8:30 - 9:00   Coffee on the Terrace
> >
> >
> > 9:00 - 12:30  Morning Session
> >
> > John M. D. Pohl (Independent Scholar) and Javier Urcid (Brandeis
> > University): Sacred Caves and Migration Legends as Allegories for
> > Postclassic Alliance and Exchange Networks
> >
> > Michael D. Lind (Independent Scholar): Pilgrimage and the Ritual Landscape
> > in Ancient Cholula
> >
> > Richard Townsend (Art Institute of Chicago): From Landscape to Symbol at
> > Tezcotzingo and Mt. Tlaloc
> >
> > John B. Carlson (Center for Archaeoastronomy and University of Maryland,
> > College Park): La Malinche and San Miguel: Pilgrimage and Sacrifice to the
> > Mountains of Sustanence in the Mexican Altiplano
> >
> > Doris Heyden (DEAS-INAH: Direccion de Etnologia y Antropologia Social -
> > Instituto Nacional de Antropologiae Historia, Mexico): The Effect of
> > Natural Disasters on the Landscape of Mexico, and How These Created
> > Pilgrimage Centers: Caves, Mountains, etc."
> >
> > Please consider that the Symposium may continue until 1:30 p.m. when
> > making your travel arrangements
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > REGISTRATION FORM
> >
> > Please register me for the Symposium:
> >
> > Pilgrimage and the Ritual Landscape in Pre-Columbian America
> > October 7-8, 2000
> >
> >
> >       $40 fee enclosed                                $____________
> >       $30 student fee enclosed                        $____________
> >       $15 lunch fee enclosed for Oct.
> > $____________
> >       TOTAL ENCLOSED                          $____________
> >
> >
> > PRINT name and affiliation as you wish them to appear on your
> > identification badge.
> >
> > Name_________________________________________________________
> >
> > Affiliation_____________________________________________________
> >
> > Work Phone_______________________________________________________
> >
> > Home Phone (optional____________________________________
> >
> > Mailing address (include your affiliation's name again if it is part of
> > your
> > address):_____________________________________________________________
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> >
> > Email address______________________________________________________
> >
> > The registration fee must be paid by September 25th and is not refundable.
> > For lunch refund, cancellation must be received no later than September
> > 28th.  Payment received after spaces have been filled will be returned.
> > Your registration will be acknowledged by postcard.
> >
> > Please mail this form with check payable to DUMBARTON OAKS  to:
> >
> >                       Pre-Columbian Studies
> >                                                 Attn: Symposium
> >                       Dumbarton Oaks
> >                       1703 32nd Street, NW
> >                       Washington, DC  20007
> >


From schwallr at selway.umt.edu  Tue Jun 20 17:03:45 2000
From: schwallr at selway.umt.edu (John F. Schwaller)
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 11:03:45 -0600
Subject: Dumbarton Oaks - Revised
Message-ID: <TUE.20.JUN.2000.110345.0600.>

Please note that the Program contains several errors.  The conference will
take place on October 7 & 8, 2000, Saturday and Sunday.

 > Subject: Dumbarton Oaks Pre-Columbian Studies Symposium, 7 & 8
 > October 2000, Organized by John B. Carlson
 >
 >
 >
 > Pre-Columbian Symposium
 > October 7 - 8 , 2000
 >
 > PILGRIMAGE AND THE RITUAL LANDSCAPE
 > IN PRE-COLUMBIAN AMERICA
 >
 > organized by
 >
 > John B. Carlson
 >
 >
 > Ancient Americans ordered the natural world on cosmological
 > principles. Mountains and springs, plains and rivers, were points and
 > channels of sacred power from historical events and timeless sacred
 > forces. Geographical features were inscribed by human hands to mark their
 > sacredness while temples and shrines replicated holy mountains, caves, and
 > water sources. Throughout the New World natural and constructed places
 > commonly became centers of pilgrimage in patterns often maintained to the
 > present.
 >
 > This symposium will explore sacred landscapes and pilgrimage in the
 > New World, drawing upon a few of the many examples available. The
 > perspective will be multi-disciplinary, cross-cultural, and examine wider
 > issues for understanding these issues beyond the New World.
 >
 > The lifetime work of two innovative, influential scholars will be
 > acknowledged in this Symposium. As active researchers, Doris Heyden,
 > Investigador Nacional and Anthropologist and Ethnohistorian at the
 > Direccion de Etnologia y Antropologia Social - Instituto Nacional de
 > Antropologia e Historia, Mexico, and Evon Z. Vogt, Professor Emeritus of
 > Anthropology at Harvard University will take a participatory role in the
 > symposium.
 >
 > The symposium is open to scholars and advanced graduate students. If you
 > wish to attend, please complete the enclosed registration form and return
 > it with the $40 registration fee ($30 for graduate students). This covers
 > admission to the scholarly sessions and the Saturday evening cocktail
 > party. Lunch is offered on Saturday by prior subscription for $15,
 > payable in advance with the registration fee. Deadline for registration
 > is September 25, but you are urged to respond as soon as possible. The
 > maximum number of participants is 200, accepted on a "first come, first
 > served" basis. Information on area hotels and taxis will be sent to you
 > when your registration is confirmed.
 >
 > Please bring this notice to the attention of appropriate colleagues
 > and students, who may use a duplicate of the form to register. Please
 > address all correspondence to:
 >
 > Pre-Columbian Studies, Dumbarton Oaks
 > 1703 32nd Street NW, Washington, DC 20007
 >
 > or email: Pre-Columbian at doaks.org
 >
 >
 >
 > * No registrations will be accepted via email.
 > * No fees are payable by credit card.
 >
 >
 >
 >
 > Tentative Agenda
 >
 > Pilgrimage and the Ritual Landscape in Pre-Columbian America
 >
 >
 > Friday, October 7, 2000
 >
 > 8:00 - 8:45 Registration, Coffee on the Terrace
 >
 > Morning Session
 >
 > Clive L. N. Ruggles (University of Leicester): Landscape Archaeology and
 > the Archaeology of Pilgrimage: A View from Across the Atlantic
 >
 > Sabine G. MacCormack (University of Michigan): Strangers and Pilgrims
 >
 > Helaine Silverman (University of Illinois at Champaign-Urbana): Pilgrimage
 > and Sacred Landscapes in Ancient Nazca
 >
 > Johan Reinhard (The Mountain Institute and National Geographic Society):
 > Sacred Mountains, Human Sacrifices, and Pilgrimages Among the Inca
 >
 > 12:30 - 2:00 Lunch at Dumbarton Oaks (by subscription)
 >
 >
 > Afternoon Session:
 >
 > Barbara Tedlock (State University of New York - Buffalo): Momostenango,
 > 'Town of Shrines': The Archaeological Implications of A Living Maya
 > Calendrical Pilgrimage Center
 >
 > Evon Z. Vogt (Harvard University): Micro-pilgimages to the Mountain and
 > Waterhole Shrines in the Tzotzil-Maya Community of Zinacantan
 >
 > Andrea Stone (University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee) and James Brady
 > (California State University-Los Angeles): The Road to Xibalba: Regional
 > Pilgrimage Caves in the Maya Area
 >
 > William L. Fash and David Stuart (Harvard University): Sacbes, Sacred
 > Mountains, and Ceremonial Circuits in the Copan Valley
 >
 > Stephen H. Lekson and Gretchen Jordan (University of Colorado-Boulder):
 > Landscape, Pilgrimage, and Power in the Ancient Southwest
 >
 > 5:30 - 7:00 Cocktail Reception
 > -over-
 >
 >
 >
 > Saturday, October 8th, 2000
 >
 > 8:30 - 9:00 Coffee on the Terrace
 >
 >
 > 9:00 - 12:30 Morning Session
 >
 > John M. D. Pohl (Independent Scholar) and Javier Urcid (Brandeis
 > University): Sacred Caves and Migration Legends as Allegories for
 > Postclassic Alliance and Exchange Networks
 >
 > Michael D. Lind (Independent Scholar): Pilgrimage and the Ritual Landscape
 > in Ancient Cholula
 >
 > Richard Townsend (Art Institute of Chicago): From Landscape to Symbol at
 > Tezcotzingo and Mt. Tlaloc
 >
 > John B. Carlson (Center for Archaeoastronomy and University of Maryland,
 > College Park): La Malinche and San Miguel: Pilgrimage and Sacrifice to the
 > Mountains of Sustanence in the Mexican Altiplano
 >
 > Doris Heyden (DEAS-INAH: Direccion de Etnologia y Antropologia Social -
 > Instituto Nacional de Antropologiae Historia, Mexico): The Effect of
 > Natural Disasters on the Landscape of Mexico, and How These Created
 > Pilgrimage Centers: Caves, Mountains, etc."
 >
 > Please consider that the Symposium may continue until 1:30 p.m. when
 > making your travel arrangements
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 > REGISTRATION FORM
 >
 > Please register me for the Symposium:
 >
 > Pilgrimage and the Ritual Landscape in Pre-Columbian America
 > October 7-8, 2000
 >
 >
 > $40 fee enclosed $____________
 > $30 student fee enclosed $____________
 > $15 lunch fee enclosed for Oct.
 > $____________
 > TOTAL ENCLOSED $____________
 >
 >
 > PRINT name and affiliation as you wish them to appear on your
 > identification badge.
 >
 > Name_________________________________________________________
 >
 > Affiliation_____________________________________________________
 >
 > Work Phone_______________________________________________________
 >
 > Home Phone (optional____________________________________
 >
 > Mailing address (include your affiliation's name again if it is part of
 > your
 > address):_____________________________________________________________
 >
 > ______________________________________________________________
 >
 > ______________________________________________________________
 >
 > Email address______________________________________________________
 >
 > The registration fee must be paid by September 25th and is not refundable.
 > For lunch refund, cancellation must be received no later than September
 > 28th. Payment received after spaces have been filled will be returned.
 > Your registration will be acknowledged by postcard.
 >
 > Please mail this form with check payable to DUMBARTON OAKS to:
 >
 > Pre-Columbian Studies
 > Attn: Symposium
 > Dumbarton Oaks
 > 1703 32nd Street, NW
 > Washington, DC 20007
 >


From heatherhess at hotmail.com  Wed Jun 21 15:07:52 2000
From: heatherhess at hotmail.com (Heather Hess)
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 08:07:52 PDT
Subject: Dumbarton Oaks - Revised
Message-ID: <WED.21.JUN.2000.080752.PDT.>

Does this conference really only cost $40.00 U.S.!!!!  Where is Dumbarton
Oaks please.  I have read references to it in the book written with Thelma
Sullivan's translations but am not familiar with it!  However, I have wanted
to go there and this is my opportunity - wow - what an opportunity!
Yolohtzin


>From: "John F. Schwaller" <schwallr at selway.umt.edu>
>Reply-To: nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu
>To: nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu
>Subject: Dumbarton Oaks - Revised
>Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 11:03:45 -0600
>
>Please note that the Program contains several errors.  The conference will
>take place on October 7 & 8, 2000, Saturday and Sunday.
>
> > Subject: Dumbarton Oaks Pre-Columbian Studies Symposium, 7 & 8
> > October 2000, Organized by John B. Carlson
> >
> >
> >
> > Pre-Columbian Symposium
> > October 7 - 8 , 2000
> >
> > PILGRIMAGE AND THE RITUAL LANDSCAPE
> > IN PRE-COLUMBIAN AMERICA
> >
> > organized by
> >
> > John B. Carlson
> >
> >
> > Ancient Americans ordered the natural world on cosmological
> > principles. Mountains and springs, plains and rivers, were points and
> > channels of sacred power from historical events and timeless sacred
> > forces. Geographical features were inscribed by human hands to mark
>their
> > sacredness while temples and shrines replicated holy mountains, caves,
>and
> > water sources. Throughout the New World natural and constructed places
> > commonly became centers of pilgrimage in patterns often maintained to
>the
> > present.
> >
> > This symposium will explore sacred landscapes and pilgrimage in the
> > New World, drawing upon a few of the many examples available. The
> > perspective will be multi-disciplinary, cross-cultural, and examine
>wider
> > issues for understanding these issues beyond the New World.
> >
> > The lifetime work of two innovative, influential scholars will be
> > acknowledged in this Symposium. As active researchers, Doris Heyden,
> > Investigador Nacional and Anthropologist and Ethnohistorian at the
> > Direccion de Etnologia y Antropologia Social - Instituto Nacional de
> > Antropologia e Historia, Mexico, and Evon Z. Vogt, Professor Emeritus of
> > Anthropology at Harvard University will take a participatory role in the
> > symposium.
> >
> > The symposium is open to scholars and advanced graduate students. If you
> > wish to attend, please complete the enclosed registration form and
>return
> > it with the $40 registration fee ($30 for graduate students). This
>covers
> > admission to the scholarly sessions and the Saturday evening cocktail
> > party. Lunch is offered on Saturday by prior subscription for $15,
> > payable in advance with the registration fee. Deadline for registration
> > is September 25, but you are urged to respond as soon as possible. The
> > maximum number of participants is 200, accepted on a "first come, first
> > served" basis. Information on area hotels and taxis will be sent to you
> > when your registration is confirmed.
> >
> > Please bring this notice to the attention of appropriate colleagues
> > and students, who may use a duplicate of the form to register. Please
> > address all correspondence to:
> >
> > Pre-Columbian Studies, Dumbarton Oaks
> > 1703 32nd Street NW, Washington, DC 20007
> >
> > or email: Pre-Columbian at doaks.org
> >
> >
> >
> > * No registrations will be accepted via email.
> > * No fees are payable by credit card.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Tentative Agenda
> >
> > Pilgrimage and the Ritual Landscape in Pre-Columbian America
> >
> >
> > Friday, October 7, 2000
> >
> > 8:00 - 8:45 Registration, Coffee on the Terrace
> >
> > Morning Session
> >
> > Clive L. N. Ruggles (University of Leicester): Landscape Archaeology and
> > the Archaeology of Pilgrimage: A View from Across the Atlantic
> >
> > Sabine G. MacCormack (University of Michigan): Strangers and Pilgrims
> >
> > Helaine Silverman (University of Illinois at Champaign-Urbana):
>Pilgrimage
> > and Sacred Landscapes in Ancient Nazca
> >
> > Johan Reinhard (The Mountain Institute and National Geographic Society):
> > Sacred Mountains, Human Sacrifices, and Pilgrimages Among the Inca
> >
> > 12:30 - 2:00 Lunch at Dumbarton Oaks (by subscription)
> >
> >
> > Afternoon Session:
> >
> > Barbara Tedlock (State University of New York - Buffalo): Momostenango,
> > 'Town of Shrines': The Archaeological Implications of A Living Maya
> > Calendrical Pilgrimage Center
> >
> > Evon Z. Vogt (Harvard University): Micro-pilgimages to the Mountain and
> > Waterhole Shrines in the Tzotzil-Maya Community of Zinacantan
> >
> > Andrea Stone (University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee) and James Brady
> > (California State University-Los Angeles): The Road to Xibalba: Regional
> > Pilgrimage Caves in the Maya Area
> >
> > William L. Fash and David Stuart (Harvard University): Sacbes, Sacred
> > Mountains, and Ceremonial Circuits in the Copan Valley
> >
> > Stephen H. Lekson and Gretchen Jordan (University of Colorado-Boulder):
> > Landscape, Pilgrimage, and Power in the Ancient Southwest
> >
> > 5:30 - 7:00 Cocktail Reception
> > -over-
> >
> >
> >
> > Saturday, October 8th, 2000
> >
> > 8:30 - 9:00 Coffee on the Terrace
> >
> >
> > 9:00 - 12:30 Morning Session
> >
> > John M. D. Pohl (Independent Scholar) and Javier Urcid (Brandeis
> > University): Sacred Caves and Migration Legends as Allegories for
> > Postclassic Alliance and Exchange Networks
> >
> > Michael D. Lind (Independent Scholar): Pilgrimage and the Ritual
>Landscape
> > in Ancient Cholula
> >
> > Richard Townsend (Art Institute of Chicago): From Landscape to Symbol at
> > Tezcotzingo and Mt. Tlaloc
> >
> > John B. Carlson (Center for Archaeoastronomy and University of Maryland,
> > College Park): La Malinche and San Miguel: Pilgrimage and Sacrifice to
>the
> > Mountains of Sustanence in the Mexican Altiplano
> >
> > Doris Heyden (DEAS-INAH: Direccion de Etnologia y Antropologia Social -
> > Instituto Nacional de Antropologiae Historia, Mexico): The Effect of
> > Natural Disasters on the Landscape of Mexico, and How These Created
> > Pilgrimage Centers: Caves, Mountains, etc."
> >
> > Please consider that the Symposium may continue until 1:30 p.m. when
> > making your travel arrangements
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > REGISTRATION FORM
> >
> > Please register me for the Symposium:
> >
> > Pilgrimage and the Ritual Landscape in Pre-Columbian America
> > October 7-8, 2000
> >
> >
> > $40 fee enclosed $____________
> > $30 student fee enclosed $____________
> > $15 lunch fee enclosed for Oct.
> > $____________
> > TOTAL ENCLOSED $____________
> >
> >
> > PRINT name and affiliation as you wish them to appear on your
> > identification badge.
> >
> > Name_________________________________________________________
> >
> > Affiliation_____________________________________________________
> >
> > Work Phone_______________________________________________________
> >
> > Home Phone (optional____________________________________
> >
> > Mailing address (include your affiliation's name again if it is part of
> > your
> > address):_____________________________________________________________
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> >
> > Email address______________________________________________________
> >
> > The registration fee must be paid by September 25th and is not
>refundable.
> > For lunch refund, cancellation must be received no later than September
> > 28th. Payment received after spaces have been filled will be returned.
> > Your registration will be acknowledged by postcard.
> >
> > Please mail this form with check payable to DUMBARTON OAKS to:
> >
> > Pre-Columbian Studies
> > Attn: Symposium
> > Dumbarton Oaks
> > 1703 32nd Street, NW
> > Washington, DC 20007
> >
>

________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com


From schwallr at selway.umt.edu  Wed Jun 21 15:30:34 2000
From: schwallr at selway.umt.edu (John F. Schwaller)
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 09:30:34 -0600
Subject: Dumbarton Oaks - Revised
In-Reply-To: <20000621150752.82519.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <WED.21.JUN.2000.093034.0600.>

Dumbarton Oaks is located in Washington, DC, just north of Georgetown.  For
more information regarding  it see:

http://www.doaks.org/

Also, when replying to a long posting, please do NOT include the entirety
of the original message.

J. F. Schwaller
List Owner

John Frederick Schwaller                             schwallr at selway.umt.edu
Associate Provost                                        406-243-4722
The University of Montana                           FAX 406-243-5937
                           http://www.umt.edu/history/NAHUATL/


From pkurtboke at mail.hotkey.net.au  Fri Jun 23 07:13:24 2000
From: pkurtboke at mail.hotkey.net.au (P. Kurtboke)
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 17:13:24 +1000
Subject: New article
In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20000620092236.00bc6e20@selway.umt.edu>
Message-ID: <FRI.23.JUN.2000.171324.1000.>

>
>  Francis, Norbert
>"The shared conceptual system and language processing in bilingual children:
>Findings from literacy assessment in Spanish and Nahuatl. "
>_Applied linguistics_. vol.  21 num. 2  (JUN 01 2000), p. 170

Thanks for this most interesting reference and I'd like to contact the
author. If he's a subscriber to the list or if there are subscribers who
know him, his e-mail address would be much appreciated.

Petek


From schwallr at selway.umt.edu  Fri Jun 23 15:27:12 2000
From: schwallr at selway.umt.edu (John F. Schwaller)
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 09:27:12 -0600
Subject: Pre-Columbian Society of Washington, DC
Message-ID: <FRI.23.JUN.2000.092712.0600.>

The Pre-Columbian Society of Washington, DC will hold a one-day seminar
entitled:
"Are we Having Fun Yet?  Pleasurable Activities in Ancient America"
Satuday, September 16
US Navy Memorial and Naval Heritage Center
701 Pennsylvania Ave, NW
Washington DC

The scheduled speakers include:
Jeffrey Quilter, "At Work, Rest, or Play?  The Question of Leisure in
Ancient America"

Susan Today Evans, "'Mid Pleasures and Palaces: Aztec Nobles at Home and at
Play"

Jill Leslie McKeever-Furst, "Compulsory Play: The Leisure Activities of
Aztec Children and Youths"

Warren DeBoer, "Of Dice and Women: Gambling and Exchange in Native North
America"

Karl Taube, "American Gladiators: Competitive Combat in Ancient Mesoamerica"

Justin Kerr, "A Good Times was had by all:  Fun and Games among the Ancient
Maya"

For further information contact the Society:
Registration Coordinator
11104 Bucknell Dr.
Silver Spring, MD  20902-4432

Leisure at ancientamerica.net
John Frederick Schwaller                             schwallr at selway.umt.edu
Associate Provost                                        406-243-4722
The University of Montana                           FAX 406-243-5937
                           http://www.umt.edu/history/NAHUATL/


From Norbert.Francis at nau.edu  Fri Jun 23 16:37:59 2000
From: Norbert.Francis at nau.edu (Norbert Francis)
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 09:37:59 -0700
Subject: New article
In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20000623171324.007a58d0@pop.hotkey.net.au>
Message-ID: <FRI.23.JUN.2000.093759.0700.>

Thank you for your interest in our project.
Feel free to write to
norbert.francis at nau.edu
for more information.

>>
>>  Francis, Norbert
>>"The shared conceptual system and language processing in bilingual children:
>>Findings from literacy assessment in Spanish and Nahuatl. "
>>_Applied linguistics_. vol.  21 num. 2  (JUN 01 2000), p. 170
>
>Thanks for this most interesting reference and I'd like to contact the
>author. If he's a subscriber to the list or if there are subscribers who
>know him, his e-mail address would be much appreciated.
>
>Petek


From CHMuths at aol.com  Thu Jun 29 21:23:12 2000
From: CHMuths at aol.com (CHMuths at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 17:23:12 EDT
Subject: Language Families
Message-ID: <THU.29.JUN.2000.172312.EDT.>

Christa


From pkurtboke at mail.hotkey.net.au  Fri Jun 30 06:50:58 2000
From: pkurtboke at mail.hotkey.net.au (P. Kurtboke)
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 16:50:58 +1000
Subject: monosyllabic verbs, '-li', reviews
In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20000608171758.00794100@pop.hotkey.net.au>
Message-ID: <FRI.30.JUN.2000.165058.1000.>

Three questions:

1) A count of monosyllabic verbs in my corpus of Turkish displays 144. I
would like to know if there's a significant number of monosyllabic verbs in
Nahuatl?

2) '-li' is a very productive suffix in Turkish. Can someone say a few
words about its function in Nahuatl?

3) I'm reading Brian Hamnett's 'A Concise History of Mexico' (CUP 1999). Is
anyone aware of this book's reviews?

Thanks
Petek