From mdmorris at indiana.edu  Mon Apr  2 00:23:34 2001
From: mdmorris at indiana.edu (Mark David Morris)
Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 19:23:34 -0500
Subject: Nahuatl for marmot?
In-Reply-To: <200103302122.f2ULMFO00065@server2.umt.edu>
Message-ID: <SUN.1.APR.2001.192334.0500.>

My friends in Tlaxcala relate the marmot to what is called tuza, a
slightly larger than squirrel size burrowing animal.  Whether the tuza
zoologically is a marmot, I know not.

sincerely,
Mark Morris



















~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

La muerte tiene permiso a todo

MDM, PhD Candidate
Dept. of History, Indiana Univ.


From dfrye at umich.edu  Mon Apr  2 02:22:30 2001
From: dfrye at umich.edu (David L. Frye)
Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 22:22:30 -0400
Subject: Nahuatl for marmot?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.1010401191832.1659A-100000@lear.ucs.indiana.edu>
Message-ID: <SUN.1.APR.2001.222230.0400.>

Here is Santamaria on "tuza" (just a selection, he goes on for nearly a
page):

"(Del azt. tuzan o totzan. Geomys mexicanos; G. hispidus; Hetergeomys
hispidus.) Roedor del pais, muy conocido; de la familia de los geomideos,
cavador de la tierra,..." (etc.)

>From a quick web search I gather that geomys mexicanus is the Mexican
pocket gopher, "resembles the common pocket gopher of the Western United
States, but is larger" -- not a marmot, though.

Later on, Santamaria adds:

"Tuza real. Nombre con el cual se designa tambien comunmente el
tepezcuinte (Coelogenus paca)."

Elsewhere he derives tepezcuinte from "azt. tepetl, cerro e izcuintli,
perro". Coelogenus paca is also know as the paca or agouti, which I guess
is the same thing -- another large rodent, but not a marmot either.


David Frye


From jsullivan at prodigy.net.mx  Mon Apr  2 01:31:28 2001
From: jsullivan at prodigy.net.mx (John Joseph Sullivan Hendricks)
Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 09:31:28 +0800
Subject: Nahuatl en Zacatecas
Message-ID: <MON.2.APR.2001.093128.0800.>

With deep regret I must announce that the Universidad Autónoma de Zacatecas
has just canceled the Nahuatl Language Program I have been running for three
years now through the University Language Center. Convinced as I am of the
value of this project, I will immediately begin looking for alternative
funding as well as another local educational institution seriously
interested in hosting the Program. For those students interested in taking
classes with us, I will post a message when we are up and running again.
    John Sullivan, Ph.D.
    Doctorado en Historia
    Universidad Autónoma de Zacatecas


From indus56 at telusplanet.net  Mon Apr  2 21:06:46 2001
From: indus56 at telusplanet.net (Paul Anderson)
Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 15:06:46 -0600
Subject: My thanks for responses to Nahuatl for marmot
Message-ID: <MON.2.APR.2001.150646.0600.>

Many sincere thanks to Nahuatl-l, and especially to Mark David Morris,
David Frye and Jim Rader, for their kind and generous consideration of
the Nahuatl-for-marmot question.

Paul Anderson


From svartronic at yahoo.com  Mon Apr  2 22:14:16 2001
From: svartronic at yahoo.com (Arturo Sandoval)
Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 15:14:16 -0700
Subject: Nahuatl for marmot?
In-Reply-To: <3AC4F2EB.59275E11@telusplanet.net>
Message-ID: <MON.2.APR.2001.151416.0700.>

I live in Veracruz and there are a lot of tuzas in this estate but a
friend of mine told me that there is not marmot in M�xico.He is an old
hunter and he knows about Wildlife and Endangered Species.
Regards,
Arturo Sandoval.
--- Paul Anderson <indus56 at telusplanet.net> wrote:
> I'm assuming, given the wide range of territories that have been
> occupied by speakers of Nahuatl, that there is a word for marmot.
>
> Would anyone happen to know what that is?
>
> I'm less sure that there are or were marmots around the Valley of
> Mexico
> or on the slopes of the volcanoes. Might anyone have any idea?
>
> Many thanks,
> Paul Anderson
>


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From Amapohuani at aol.com  Mon Apr  2 23:10:26 2001
From: Amapohuani at aol.com (Amapohuani at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 19:10:26 EDT
Subject: Nahuatl en Zacatecas
Message-ID: <MON.2.APR.2001.191026.EDT.>

To: John Sullivan
Re: Cancellation of Nahuatl Language Program at UAZ

I am sure I speak for many listeros here at Nahuat-l who are disappointed to
hear of this recent setback.

Best of luck in your future efforts.

Ye ixquich.
Barry D. Sell


From karttu at nantucket.net  Wed Apr  4 13:41:51 2001
From: karttu at nantucket.net (Frances Karttunen)
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 09:41:51 -0400
Subject: Numeral classifiers
Message-ID: <WED.4.APR.2001.094151.0400.>

Esteemed listeros:

Thomas Stoltz is seeking examples of productive use of the construction
quantifier+classifier in modern Nahuatl.  Beyond "cente" and "onte" does
anyone have such examples?

Many thanks,

Fran Karttunen


From mdmorris at indiana.edu  Wed Apr  4 19:28:08 2001
From: mdmorris at indiana.edu (Mark David Morris)
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 14:28:08 -0500
Subject: Numeral classifiers
In-Reply-To: <200104041344.JAA14411@nantucket.net>
Message-ID: <WED.4.APR.2001.142808.0500.>

Fran,

If I understand your queston correctly, I would offer -can as a classifier
(tangible, intangible) and chicomecan in a list of tribute townsin the
Relato sobre la nobleza de San Juan Teotihuacan in the Paso and Troncoso
collection of the Museo de Antropologia e Historia as an example.
Otherwise, I am not sure exactly what form of classifiers would be helpful
for Mr. Stoltz.

sincerely,
Mark D. Morris



















~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

La muerte tiene permiso a todo

MDM, PhD Candidate
Dept. of History, Indiana Univ.


From karttu at nantucket.net  Wed Apr  4 21:09:23 2001
From: karttu at nantucket.net (Frances Karttunen)
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 17:09:23 -0400
Subject: Numeral classifiers
Message-ID: <WED.4.APR.2001.170923.0400.>

We're looking for numeral classifiers that combine with numbers and other
quantifiers.  The set in use in the 16th century included -tetl for
lump-shaped things (tamales, eggs, beans, jicamas, melons, squashes, etc.
It was extended to Spanish chickens when they were introduced.  Still
survives in "cente" and "onte."); -pantli for things arranged in rows
(fences, furrows in a field, people in a line); -tlamantli for things that
can be folded or stacked (shoes, papers, plates, etc.); -ipilli for counting
tortillas, woven pieces of cloth, sheets of amate paper, etc., by 20s; and
-olotl for counting things arranged like kernels of maize on a cob.

We're looking for modern uses of -pantli, -tlamantli, -ipilli, and -olotl
(not as nouns but attached to numbers or other quantifiers).

Thanks for your thought about -can.  I think Chicomecan, despite the number
as the first element, is a place name, not a way of counting something else.

Fran

----------
>From: Mark David Morris <mdmorris at indiana.edu>
>To: nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu
>Subject: Re: Numeral classifiers
>Date: Wed, Apr 4, 2001, 3:28 PM
>

> Fran,
>
> If I understand your queston correctly, I would offer -can as a classifier
> (tangible, intangible) and chicomecan in a list of tribute townsin the
> Relato sobre la nobleza de San Juan Teotihuacan in the Paso and Troncoso
> collection of the Museo de Antropologia e Historia as an example.
> Otherwise, I am not sure exactly what form of classifiers would be helpful
> for Mr. Stoltz.
>
> sincerely,
> Mark D. Morris
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> La muerte tiene permiso a todo
>
> MDM, PhD Candidate
> Dept. of History, Indiana Univ.
>
>


From tom_grigsby at hotmail.com  Sun Apr  8 23:45:05 2001
From: tom_grigsby at hotmail.com (tom grigsby)
Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 23:45:05 -0000
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <SUN.8.APR.2001.234505.0000.>

Estimados listeros,

I�ve collected nanacameh (< nanacatl, hongo) as one of the interchangeable
words used for the ahuaqueh, the invisible owners of water that inhabit the
netherworld in Tepoztlan, Morelos.  A verb form, nanacatia, is used as a
synonym for �to benumb.�  Has anyone come across similar uses of these terms
in their fieldwork or library research?  I�d appreciate any citations that
you can give me.

Thanks,

Tom Grigsby

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com


From mclssaa2 at fs2.mt.umist.ac.uk  Thu Apr  5 09:09:42 2001
From: mclssaa2 at fs2.mt.umist.ac.uk (Anthony Appleyard)
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 09:09:42 GMT
Subject: Length of the vowel in -tzin"
Message-ID: <THU.5.APR.2001.090942.GMT.>

When Karttunen's book 1 discusses the length of the vowel in the suffix "-
tzin" in its various meanings at various times, it says that one evidence that
that vowel was long in classical Tenochtitlanian Nahuatl, is that the
"buttocks" heiroglyph (the lower half of a crouching man, "tzi:ntli") is used
as a phonetic for "-tzinco" as the end part of some place names. But can we
rely on a phonetic match being that exact when scribes were likely driven to
many expedients in trying to use picture writing for a language with a lot of
inflectional endings? The same difficulties arose in adapting the Chinese
writing system to write Japanese, which like Nahuatl has a lot of inflections.

Citlalyani


John Frederick Schwaller                             schwallr at selway.umt.edu
Associate Provost                                        406-243-4722
The University of Montana                           FAX 406-243-5937
                               http://www.umt.edu/provost/


From cristi at ix.netcom.com  Mon Apr  9 16:37:21 2001
From: cristi at ix.netcom.com (cristi at ix.netcom.com)
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 10:37:21 -0600
Subject: Pronunciation?
In-Reply-To: <200104091511.f39FB4g29630@server2.umt.edu>
Message-ID: <MON.9.APR.2001.103721.0600.>

Some of you may remember me as the budding author who has
nothing of import to add; I enjoy reading this list for what
information I can glean from the emails of those who actually
understand nahuatl.  :-)

I have a couple of questions, though, if someone out there would be
so kind as to indulge me with an answer.

1)  I find little information on how to pronounce consonants, other
than it's "just like Spanish."  I know that does not apply to some
letters because Spanish has changed...like the "ll" and the "x."
But does it mean that I can infer that the use of letters like "c" and
"g" follow Spanish rules for pronunciation depending on where they
are in the word and what letters follow them?

2)  In some places I find "g" used in a word or place name, and in
others, "c."  An example is Xicalango/Xicalanco.  Or
Huexatzinga/Huexatzinco.  Does this just mean that the Spaniards
were not hearing the pronunciation correctly?  (Which I know was a
huuuuge problem of theirs).  Is the "g" usually incorrect, and "c"
should be used, as seems logical in the case of this particular
place name?

That's all for today.  My thanks to anyone who can clear this up for
me!

Cristi


From dfrye at umich.edu  Mon Apr  9 18:31:07 2001
From: dfrye at umich.edu (David L. Frye)
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 14:31:07 -0400
Subject: Water spirits (nanacatl/ahuacueh)
In-Reply-To: <F2324gtopWd7KKQpQq5000013e6@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <MON.9.APR.2001.143107.0400.>

In Mexquitic, SLP (settled by folks from Tlaxcala in 1591 and
Nahuatl-speaking up to c. 1850, monolingual Spanish since the early 1900s)
the term for water spirit is "chan" (as in "el chan del agua"). Nowadays
the chanes are conceptualized as "animalitos," bugs/insects/"germs" that
are microscopic, not invisible per se; they are said to cause itching,
numbness, bad luck, etc. in anyone foolish enough to cross a stream
without the precaution of holding a bunch of perul (pepper-tree) branches
in his/her hand.

David Frye, U. Michigan


From tom_grigsby at hotmail.com  Mon Apr  9 19:45:38 2001
From: tom_grigsby at hotmail.com (tom grigsby)
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 19:45:38 -0000
Subject: Water spirits (nanacatl/ahuacueh)
Message-ID: <MON.9.APR.2001.194538.0000.>

Dear David,
Thanks for you input regarding the �chan.�  I don�t know the term, but it
probably comes from �chantia,� morar en un lugar, according to de Molina.
In Maya country they�re known as �chacs.�
Our water spirits are also conceptualized as �animalitos� but that�s because
they�re transformations of the real critters.  Invisible as they are, they
can only be seen in dreams or in their myriad transformations.  We also have
to take precautions when crossing barrancas, places of water.  We smoke
cigarettes, swallow some alcohol, or carry a branch of jaramilla (?) or some
salt to keep them at bay.  The pepper tree is interesting because, if I'm
not mistaken, it�s an introduced species.

Thanks again,
Tom Grigsby



>From: "David L. Frye" <dfrye at umich.edu>
>Reply-To: nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu
>To: nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu
>Subject: Water spirits (nanacatl/ahuacueh)
>Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 14:31:07 -0400 (EDT)
>
>In Mexquitic, SLP (settled by folks from Tlaxcala in 1591 and
>Nahuatl-speaking up to c. 1850, monolingual Spanish since the early 1900s)
>the term for water spirit is "chan" (as in "el chan del agua"). Nowadays
>the chanes are conceptualized as "animalitos," bugs/insects/"germs" that
>are microscopic, not invisible per se; they are said to cause itching,
>numbness, bad luck, etc. in anyone foolish enough to cross a stream
>without the precaution of holding a bunch of perul (pepper-tree) branches
>in his/her hand.
>
>David Frye, U. Michigan
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com


From juergen.stowasser at univie.ac.at  Mon Apr  9 22:34:09 2001
From: juergen.stowasser at univie.ac.at (Juergen Stowasser)
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 00:34:09 +0200
Subject: Water spirits (nanacatl/ahuacueh)
Message-ID: <TUE.10.APR.2001.003409.0200.>

tom grigsby schrieb:

> Dear David,
> Thanks for you input regarding the “chan.”  I don’t know the term, but it
> probably comes from “chantia,” morar en un lugar, according to de Molina.

yes, it does. "chane" means literally "habitant" (e.g. habitant of an altepetl
or a house). But as David pointed out, the term is also applied to "spirits",
"owners" of a place: in northern Veracruz "chanehque" are described as "duenos
de lugares" . They are said to mock people sometimes ("broman como duendes").
There are achanehque (a-chane) = water spirits and tepechanehque = mountain
owners/spirits.

best
Jürgen

--
Juergen Stowasser
Burggasse 114/2/8
A-1070 Wien - Vien(n)a
Austria
tel: 01/ 524 54 60  v  0676/ 398 66 79
http://www.univie.ac.at/meso


From karttu at nantucket.net  Mon Apr  9 21:47:17 2001
From: karttu at nantucket.net (Frances Karttunen)
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 17:47:17 -0400
Subject: Water spirits (nanacatl/ahuacueh)
Message-ID: <MON.9.APR.2001.174717.0400.>

"Chan" looks like a shortening of cha:neh (pl: cha:nehqueh), meaning 'having
a home' and hence 'resident.'  The 'Reto del Tepozteco' that was (and maybe
still is) performed every September in Tepoztlan uses the appellation
"Tepoztlancha:neh" for the autocthonous hero know in Spanish as "el
Tepozteco,"  that is, a being whose home is Tepoztlan.

If I were being pestered by fleas, gnats, and no-see-em's in general, I
would tend to think of them as notechcha:nequeh, with me as their home and
host.  It sounds as though in SLP such wee critters have merged with what in
Spanish are called "los aires" and in modern Nahuatl (also around Tepoztlan)
are calqued as "ehecameh."


The branches in question are also used for whisking oneself in the
tema:zcalli (steam bath) as one drives out fatigue, aches, and pains.

Fran
----------
>From: "David L. Frye" <dfrye at umich.edu>
>To: nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu
>Subject: Water spirits (nanacatl/ahuacueh)
>Date: Mon, Apr 9, 2001, 2:31 PM
>

> In Mexquitic, SLP (settled by folks from Tlaxcala in 1591 and
> Nahuatl-speaking up to c. 1850, monolingual Spanish since the early 1900s)
> the term for water spirit is "chan" (as in "el chan del agua"). Nowadays
> the chanes are conceptualized as "animalitos," bugs/insects/"germs" that
> are microscopic, not invisible per se; they are said to cause itching,
> numbness, bad luck, etc. in anyone foolish enough to cross a stream
> without the precaution of holding a bunch of perul (pepper-tree) branches
> in his/her hand.
>
> David Frye, U. Michigan
>
>


From karttu at nantucket.net  Mon Apr  9 21:58:40 2001
From: karttu at nantucket.net (Frances Karttunen)
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 17:58:40 -0400
Subject: Length of the vowel in -tzin"
Message-ID: <MON.9.APR.2001.175840.0400.>

People who yearn for symmetry in morphology want the vowel in -tzin/-tzi:n
to be long to make it like the long vowels in the other attitudinal suffixes
(-to:n, -pi:l, -po:l).  I don't think this is much of a reason.  But the
fact that the vowels in the other suffixes are long MIGHT have been a factor
in changing the one in -tzin to long over time, regularizing it in the same
fashion of English has regularized many "strong" verbs.

There is no doubt that -tzin has the reflex of a long vowel in most or all
varieties of Nahuatl as spoken recently.

The glyphic evidence, as you say, is not strong, since the glyphs seem to
have been gross approximations.  Someone with a good sense of contrastive
vowel length should go through the Codex Mendoza, for instance, and see how
many unequivocal cases of vowel-length conflict between elements of names
and the symbols used for the.  Does vowel length matter in glyphs or not?

Fran

----------
>From: "Anthony Appleyard" <mclssaa2 at fs2.mt.umist.ac.uk>
>To: nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu
>Subject: Length of the vowel in -tzin"
>Date: Thu, Apr 5, 2001, 5:09 AM
>

>
> When Karttunen's book 1 discusses the length of the vowel in the suffix "-
> tzin" in its various meanings at various times, it says that one evidence that
> that vowel was long in classical Tenochtitlanian Nahuatl, is that the
> "buttocks" heiroglyph (the lower half of a crouching man, "tzi:ntli") is used
> as a phonetic for "-tzinco" as the end part of some place names. But can we
> rely on a phonetic match being that exact when scribes were likely driven to
> many expedients in trying to use picture writing for a language with a lot of
> inflectional endings? The same difficulties arose in adapting the Chinese
> writing system to write Japanese, which like Nahuatl has a lot of inflections.
>
> Citlalyani
>
>
> John Frederick Schwaller                             schwallr at selway.umt.edu
> Associate Provost                                        406-243-4722
> The University of Montana                           FAX 406-243-5937
>                                http://www.umt.edu/provost/
>


From davius_sanctex at terra.es  Tue Apr 10 18:59:42 2001
From: davius_sanctex at terra.es (David Sanchez)
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 20:59:42 +0200
Subject: Pronunciation?
Message-ID: <TUE.10.APR.2001.205942.0200.>

Another doubt on pronunciation:

3) D. Tuggy metions that to words endding in final vowels are pronounced
with an extra non-phonological glottal stop. The rule that vowels preceding
glottal stop and in final possition are shortened supports this claim. But
if:

choca 'he/she cryes'        is uttered        [tSo:ka?]

What is the phonetic (non phonological!) difference between <cho:ca> 'he
cryes' and <cho:kah> 'they cry'.

Thank you, in advance
Davius


From david.gloster at muenchen.roses.de  Fri Apr 13 14:00:37 2001
From: david.gloster at muenchen.roses.de (David Gloster)
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 16:00:37 +0200
Subject: nanacameh
Message-ID: <FRI.13.APR.2001.160037.0200.>

Dear Tom,

sorry for the late reply.

I found the term nanacatzitzen, relating to halucinogenic mushrooms, in a
transcription given to me in 1975 by Luis Reyes García. Luis had collected the
information in his own home town of Amatlán de los Reyes, Veracruz, from Felipa
Reyes, about 70 years of age at the time and daughter of a "partera empírica"
who was active up till around 1910. She recounts how and why her forefathers
used to consume the mushrooms.
In her account she only uses the term nanacatzitzen, she doesn't use the verb
you mention, nanacatia. An alternative name for these mushrooms was tlacatzitzen
(hombrecitos). This name comes from the "little people, like children" that the
person eating the mushrooms sees during the halucination and who answer his/her
questions. The tlacatzitzen are supposed to come from Tlalocan, therefore it is
the earth which answers the questions, as the earth on which we live sees
everything and knows everything.

Hope this is of interest.

Best regards

David Gloster
Munich, Germany

tom grigsby wrote:

> Estimados listeros,
>
> I’ve collected nanacameh (< nanacatl, hongo) as one of the interchangeable
> words used for the ahuaqueh, the invisible owners of water that inhabit the
> netherworld in Tepoztlan, Morelos.  A verb form, nanacatia, is used as a
> synonym for “to benumb.”  Has anyone come across similar uses of these terms
> in their fieldwork or library research?  I’d appreciate any citations that
> you can give me.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tom Grigsby
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com


From tom_grigsby at hotmail.com  Fri Apr 13 14:48:32 2001
From: tom_grigsby at hotmail.com (tom grigsby)
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 14:48:32 -0000
Subject: nanacameh
Message-ID: <FRI.13.APR.2001.144832.0000.>

Dear David,
Thank you very much for your reply.  The data that you've provided fits very
well with my findings in Morelos.  It appears that the use of mushroom to
contact the "hombrecitos" has been lost in Tepoztlan, but the name suggests
its historic use.
Thanks again,
Tom



_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com


From mdmorris at indiana.edu  Fri Apr 13 17:35:03 2001
From: mdmorris at indiana.edu (Mark David Morris)
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 12:35:03 -0500
Subject: nanacameh
In-Reply-To: <3AD70684.B5BB9AE6@muenchen.roses.de>
Message-ID: <FRI.13.APR.2001.123503.0500.>

David etc.

I think the article of which Luis gave you a manuscript copy is published
in Tlalocan c.a. 1968-1973 if anyboyd is interested in pursuing the
content of it.

sincerely,
Mark Morris



















~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

La muerte tiene permiso a todo

MDM, PhD Candidate
Dept. of History, Indiana Univ.


From jsullivan at prodigy.net.mx  Mon Apr 23 03:21:52 2001
From: jsullivan at prodigy.net.mx (John Joseph Sullivan Hendricks)
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 11:21:52 +0800
Subject: Teyumej
Message-ID: <MON.23.APR.2001.112152.0800.>

Forgive my absolute ignorance on the subject of the nahua spiritual world,
but I asked some questions of one of my assistants, whose father was a well
known tepatiketl (curandero) in the Huasteca before he died, about the
discussion on the wee critters that make you sick. Here goes:
    One way of getting sick is to get infected by a teyutl ("teotl", I
suppose. Plural = teyumej). These are "little animals so small that you
can't see them", and the general symptoms are pains in any part of your body
(rheumatic pains are the most common). You can get infected basically in two
ways. By going into uninhabited wilderness (high mountains, or passing by a
cave) where the teyumej live. Also, a tepatiketl will bury (in the ground or
under a rock in a stream) the instruments used to cure a patient infected by
teyumej. So if you happen to walk by such a place, you can also become
infected.
    The "ajakwinij" (sing = ajakatl) are the spirits of the mountains, air,
water, fog, etc., which constitute the life of the universe. These are
invoked by the tepatiketl to cure a person infected by the teyumej.
    They are also invoked to help cure people who are ill because they
unexpectedly ran into a wild animal (nawalli) while they were walking along,
and the fright caused their "tonal" (life force) to get temporarily stuck on
that spot. Part of the cure for this is for the tepatiketl to go to the spot
where the event ocurred, get dirt from that spot and tie it into seven
little balls around the bottom of the patient's shirt. The symptoms of this
kind of illness is lack of appetite, nightmares, and fever.
    These are two ways to get sick. There is a third, which is to run into
an apparition of the devil, "tlen amo kwalli". This can cause loss of
appetite, nightmares, fever, and visions.
    In general, curing ceremonies are called a "kampeka"

    John Sullivan
    Universidad Autónoma de Zacatecas


From mdmorris at indiana.edu  Mon Apr  2 00:23:34 2001
From: mdmorris at indiana.edu (Mark David Morris)
Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 19:23:34 -0500
Subject: Nahuatl for marmot?
In-Reply-To: <200103302122.f2ULMFO00065@server2.umt.edu>
Message-ID: <SUN.1.APR.2001.192334.0500.>

My friends in Tlaxcala relate the marmot to what is called tuza, a
slightly larger than squirrel size burrowing animal.  Whether the tuza
zoologically is a marmot, I know not.

sincerely,
Mark Morris



















~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

La muerte tiene permiso a todo

MDM, PhD Candidate
Dept. of History, Indiana Univ.


From dfrye at umich.edu  Mon Apr  2 02:22:30 2001
From: dfrye at umich.edu (David L. Frye)
Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 22:22:30 -0400
Subject: Nahuatl for marmot?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.1010401191832.1659A-100000@lear.ucs.indiana.edu>
Message-ID: <SUN.1.APR.2001.222230.0400.>

Here is Santamaria on "tuza" (just a selection, he goes on for nearly a
page):

"(Del azt. tuzan o totzan. Geomys mexicanos; G. hispidus; Hetergeomys
hispidus.) Roedor del pais, muy conocido; de la familia de los geomideos,
cavador de la tierra,..." (etc.)

>From a quick web search I gather that geomys mexicanus is the Mexican
pocket gopher, "resembles the common pocket gopher of the Western United
States, but is larger" -- not a marmot, though.

Later on, Santamaria adds:

"Tuza real. Nombre con el cual se designa tambien comunmente el
tepezcuinte (Coelogenus paca)."

Elsewhere he derives tepezcuinte from "azt. tepetl, cerro e izcuintli,
perro". Coelogenus paca is also know as the paca or agouti, which I guess
is the same thing -- another large rodent, but not a marmot either.


David Frye


From jsullivan at prodigy.net.mx  Mon Apr  2 01:31:28 2001
From: jsullivan at prodigy.net.mx (John Joseph Sullivan Hendricks)
Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 09:31:28 +0800
Subject: Nahuatl en Zacatecas
Message-ID: <MON.2.APR.2001.093128.0800.>

With deep regret I must announce that the Universidad Aut?noma de Zacatecas
has just canceled the Nahuatl Language Program I have been running for three
years now through the University Language Center. Convinced as I am of the
value of this project, I will immediately begin looking for alternative
funding as well as another local educational institution seriously
interested in hosting the Program. For those students interested in taking
classes with us, I will post a message when we are up and running again.
    John Sullivan, Ph.D.
    Doctorado en Historia
    Universidad Aut?noma de Zacatecas


From indus56 at telusplanet.net  Mon Apr  2 21:06:46 2001
From: indus56 at telusplanet.net (Paul Anderson)
Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 15:06:46 -0600
Subject: My thanks for responses to Nahuatl for marmot
Message-ID: <MON.2.APR.2001.150646.0600.>

Many sincere thanks to Nahuatl-l, and especially to Mark David Morris,
David Frye and Jim Rader, for their kind and generous consideration of
the Nahuatl-for-marmot question.

Paul Anderson


From svartronic at yahoo.com  Mon Apr  2 22:14:16 2001
From: svartronic at yahoo.com (Arturo Sandoval)
Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 15:14:16 -0700
Subject: Nahuatl for marmot?
In-Reply-To: <3AC4F2EB.59275E11@telusplanet.net>
Message-ID: <MON.2.APR.2001.151416.0700.>

I live in Veracruz and there are a lot of tuzas in this estate but a
friend of mine told me that there is not marmot in M?xico.He is an old
hunter and he knows about Wildlife and Endangered Species.
Regards,
Arturo Sandoval.
--- Paul Anderson <indus56 at telusplanet.net> wrote:
> I'm assuming, given the wide range of territories that have been
> occupied by speakers of Nahuatl, that there is a word for marmot.
>
> Would anyone happen to know what that is?
>
> I'm less sure that there are or were marmots around the Valley of
> Mexico
> or on the slopes of the volcanoes. Might anyone have any idea?
>
> Many thanks,
> Paul Anderson
>


__________________________________________________
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From Amapohuani at aol.com  Mon Apr  2 23:10:26 2001
From: Amapohuani at aol.com (Amapohuani at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 19:10:26 EDT
Subject: Nahuatl en Zacatecas
Message-ID: <MON.2.APR.2001.191026.EDT.>

To: John Sullivan
Re: Cancellation of Nahuatl Language Program at UAZ

I am sure I speak for many listeros here at Nahuat-l who are disappointed to
hear of this recent setback.

Best of luck in your future efforts.

Ye ixquich.
Barry D. Sell


From karttu at nantucket.net  Wed Apr  4 13:41:51 2001
From: karttu at nantucket.net (Frances Karttunen)
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 09:41:51 -0400
Subject: Numeral classifiers
Message-ID: <WED.4.APR.2001.094151.0400.>

Esteemed listeros:

Thomas Stoltz is seeking examples of productive use of the construction
quantifier+classifier in modern Nahuatl.  Beyond "cente" and "onte" does
anyone have such examples?

Many thanks,

Fran Karttunen


From mdmorris at indiana.edu  Wed Apr  4 19:28:08 2001
From: mdmorris at indiana.edu (Mark David Morris)
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 14:28:08 -0500
Subject: Numeral classifiers
In-Reply-To: <200104041344.JAA14411@nantucket.net>
Message-ID: <WED.4.APR.2001.142808.0500.>

Fran,

If I understand your queston correctly, I would offer -can as a classifier
(tangible, intangible) and chicomecan in a list of tribute townsin the
Relato sobre la nobleza de San Juan Teotihuacan in the Paso and Troncoso
collection of the Museo de Antropologia e Historia as an example.
Otherwise, I am not sure exactly what form of classifiers would be helpful
for Mr. Stoltz.

sincerely,
Mark D. Morris



















~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

La muerte tiene permiso a todo

MDM, PhD Candidate
Dept. of History, Indiana Univ.


From karttu at nantucket.net  Wed Apr  4 21:09:23 2001
From: karttu at nantucket.net (Frances Karttunen)
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 17:09:23 -0400
Subject: Numeral classifiers
Message-ID: <WED.4.APR.2001.170923.0400.>

We're looking for numeral classifiers that combine with numbers and other
quantifiers.  The set in use in the 16th century included -tetl for
lump-shaped things (tamales, eggs, beans, jicamas, melons, squashes, etc.
It was extended to Spanish chickens when they were introduced.  Still
survives in "cente" and "onte."); -pantli for things arranged in rows
(fences, furrows in a field, people in a line); -tlamantli for things that
can be folded or stacked (shoes, papers, plates, etc.); -ipilli for counting
tortillas, woven pieces of cloth, sheets of amate paper, etc., by 20s; and
-olotl for counting things arranged like kernels of maize on a cob.

We're looking for modern uses of -pantli, -tlamantli, -ipilli, and -olotl
(not as nouns but attached to numbers or other quantifiers).

Thanks for your thought about -can.  I think Chicomecan, despite the number
as the first element, is a place name, not a way of counting something else.

Fran

----------
>From: Mark David Morris <mdmorris at indiana.edu>
>To: nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu
>Subject: Re: Numeral classifiers
>Date: Wed, Apr 4, 2001, 3:28 PM
>

> Fran,
>
> If I understand your queston correctly, I would offer -can as a classifier
> (tangible, intangible) and chicomecan in a list of tribute townsin the
> Relato sobre la nobleza de San Juan Teotihuacan in the Paso and Troncoso
> collection of the Museo de Antropologia e Historia as an example.
> Otherwise, I am not sure exactly what form of classifiers would be helpful
> for Mr. Stoltz.
>
> sincerely,
> Mark D. Morris
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> La muerte tiene permiso a todo
>
> MDM, PhD Candidate
> Dept. of History, Indiana Univ.
>
>


From tom_grigsby at hotmail.com  Sun Apr  8 23:45:05 2001
From: tom_grigsby at hotmail.com (tom grigsby)
Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 23:45:05 -0000
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <SUN.8.APR.2001.234505.0000.>

Estimados listeros,

I?ve collected nanacameh (< nanacatl, hongo) as one of the interchangeable
words used for the ahuaqueh, the invisible owners of water that inhabit the
netherworld in Tepoztlan, Morelos.  A verb form, nanacatia, is used as a
synonym for ?to benumb.?  Has anyone come across similar uses of these terms
in their fieldwork or library research?  I?d appreciate any citations that
you can give me.

Thanks,

Tom Grigsby

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com


From mclssaa2 at fs2.mt.umist.ac.uk  Thu Apr  5 09:09:42 2001
From: mclssaa2 at fs2.mt.umist.ac.uk (Anthony Appleyard)
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 09:09:42 GMT
Subject: Length of the vowel in -tzin"
Message-ID: <THU.5.APR.2001.090942.GMT.>

When Karttunen's book 1 discusses the length of the vowel in the suffix "-
tzin" in its various meanings at various times, it says that one evidence that
that vowel was long in classical Tenochtitlanian Nahuatl, is that the
"buttocks" heiroglyph (the lower half of a crouching man, "tzi:ntli") is used
as a phonetic for "-tzinco" as the end part of some place names. But can we
rely on a phonetic match being that exact when scribes were likely driven to
many expedients in trying to use picture writing for a language with a lot of
inflectional endings? The same difficulties arose in adapting the Chinese
writing system to write Japanese, which like Nahuatl has a lot of inflections.

Citlalyani


John Frederick Schwaller                             schwallr at selway.umt.edu
Associate Provost                                        406-243-4722
The University of Montana                           FAX 406-243-5937
                               http://www.umt.edu/provost/


From cristi at ix.netcom.com  Mon Apr  9 16:37:21 2001
From: cristi at ix.netcom.com (cristi at ix.netcom.com)
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 10:37:21 -0600
Subject: Pronunciation?
In-Reply-To: <200104091511.f39FB4g29630@server2.umt.edu>
Message-ID: <MON.9.APR.2001.103721.0600.>

Some of you may remember me as the budding author who has
nothing of import to add; I enjoy reading this list for what
information I can glean from the emails of those who actually
understand nahuatl.  :-)

I have a couple of questions, though, if someone out there would be
so kind as to indulge me with an answer.

1)  I find little information on how to pronounce consonants, other
than it's "just like Spanish."  I know that does not apply to some
letters because Spanish has changed...like the "ll" and the "x."
But does it mean that I can infer that the use of letters like "c" and
"g" follow Spanish rules for pronunciation depending on where they
are in the word and what letters follow them?

2)  In some places I find "g" used in a word or place name, and in
others, "c."  An example is Xicalango/Xicalanco.  Or
Huexatzinga/Huexatzinco.  Does this just mean that the Spaniards
were not hearing the pronunciation correctly?  (Which I know was a
huuuuge problem of theirs).  Is the "g" usually incorrect, and "c"
should be used, as seems logical in the case of this particular
place name?

That's all for today.  My thanks to anyone who can clear this up for
me!

Cristi


From dfrye at umich.edu  Mon Apr  9 18:31:07 2001
From: dfrye at umich.edu (David L. Frye)
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 14:31:07 -0400
Subject: Water spirits (nanacatl/ahuacueh)
In-Reply-To: <F2324gtopWd7KKQpQq5000013e6@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <MON.9.APR.2001.143107.0400.>

In Mexquitic, SLP (settled by folks from Tlaxcala in 1591 and
Nahuatl-speaking up to c. 1850, monolingual Spanish since the early 1900s)
the term for water spirit is "chan" (as in "el chan del agua"). Nowadays
the chanes are conceptualized as "animalitos," bugs/insects/"germs" that
are microscopic, not invisible per se; they are said to cause itching,
numbness, bad luck, etc. in anyone foolish enough to cross a stream
without the precaution of holding a bunch of perul (pepper-tree) branches
in his/her hand.

David Frye, U. Michigan


From tom_grigsby at hotmail.com  Mon Apr  9 19:45:38 2001
From: tom_grigsby at hotmail.com (tom grigsby)
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 19:45:38 -0000
Subject: Water spirits (nanacatl/ahuacueh)
Message-ID: <MON.9.APR.2001.194538.0000.>

Dear David,
Thanks for you input regarding the ?chan.?  I don?t know the term, but it
probably comes from ?chantia,? morar en un lugar, according to de Molina.
In Maya country they?re known as ?chacs.?
Our water spirits are also conceptualized as ?animalitos? but that?s because
they?re transformations of the real critters.  Invisible as they are, they
can only be seen in dreams or in their myriad transformations.  We also have
to take precautions when crossing barrancas, places of water.  We smoke
cigarettes, swallow some alcohol, or carry a branch of jaramilla (?) or some
salt to keep them at bay.  The pepper tree is interesting because, if I'm
not mistaken, it?s an introduced species.

Thanks again,
Tom Grigsby



>From: "David L. Frye" <dfrye at umich.edu>
>Reply-To: nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu
>To: nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu
>Subject: Water spirits (nanacatl/ahuacueh)
>Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 14:31:07 -0400 (EDT)
>
>In Mexquitic, SLP (settled by folks from Tlaxcala in 1591 and
>Nahuatl-speaking up to c. 1850, monolingual Spanish since the early 1900s)
>the term for water spirit is "chan" (as in "el chan del agua"). Nowadays
>the chanes are conceptualized as "animalitos," bugs/insects/"germs" that
>are microscopic, not invisible per se; they are said to cause itching,
>numbness, bad luck, etc. in anyone foolish enough to cross a stream
>without the precaution of holding a bunch of perul (pepper-tree) branches
>in his/her hand.
>
>David Frye, U. Michigan
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com


From juergen.stowasser at univie.ac.at  Mon Apr  9 22:34:09 2001
From: juergen.stowasser at univie.ac.at (Juergen Stowasser)
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 00:34:09 +0200
Subject: Water spirits (nanacatl/ahuacueh)
Message-ID: <TUE.10.APR.2001.003409.0200.>

tom grigsby schrieb:

> Dear David,
> Thanks for you input regarding the ?chan.?  I don?t know the term, but it
> probably comes from ?chantia,? morar en un lugar, according to de Molina.

yes, it does. "chane" means literally "habitant" (e.g. habitant of an altepetl
or a house). But as David pointed out, the term is also applied to "spirits",
"owners" of a place: in northern Veracruz "chanehque" are described as "duenos
de lugares" . They are said to mock people sometimes ("broman como duendes").
There are achanehque (a-chane) = water spirits and tepechanehque = mountain
owners/spirits.

best
J?rgen

--
Juergen Stowasser
Burggasse 114/2/8
A-1070 Wien - Vien(n)a
Austria
tel: 01/ 524 54 60  v  0676/ 398 66 79
http://www.univie.ac.at/meso


From karttu at nantucket.net  Mon Apr  9 21:47:17 2001
From: karttu at nantucket.net (Frances Karttunen)
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 17:47:17 -0400
Subject: Water spirits (nanacatl/ahuacueh)
Message-ID: <MON.9.APR.2001.174717.0400.>

"Chan" looks like a shortening of cha:neh (pl: cha:nehqueh), meaning 'having
a home' and hence 'resident.'  The 'Reto del Tepozteco' that was (and maybe
still is) performed every September in Tepoztlan uses the appellation
"Tepoztlancha:neh" for the autocthonous hero know in Spanish as "el
Tepozteco,"  that is, a being whose home is Tepoztlan.

If I were being pestered by fleas, gnats, and no-see-em's in general, I
would tend to think of them as notechcha:nequeh, with me as their home and
host.  It sounds as though in SLP such wee critters have merged with what in
Spanish are called "los aires" and in modern Nahuatl (also around Tepoztlan)
are calqued as "ehecameh."


The branches in question are also used for whisking oneself in the
tema:zcalli (steam bath) as one drives out fatigue, aches, and pains.

Fran
----------
>From: "David L. Frye" <dfrye at umich.edu>
>To: nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu
>Subject: Water spirits (nanacatl/ahuacueh)
>Date: Mon, Apr 9, 2001, 2:31 PM
>

> In Mexquitic, SLP (settled by folks from Tlaxcala in 1591 and
> Nahuatl-speaking up to c. 1850, monolingual Spanish since the early 1900s)
> the term for water spirit is "chan" (as in "el chan del agua"). Nowadays
> the chanes are conceptualized as "animalitos," bugs/insects/"germs" that
> are microscopic, not invisible per se; they are said to cause itching,
> numbness, bad luck, etc. in anyone foolish enough to cross a stream
> without the precaution of holding a bunch of perul (pepper-tree) branches
> in his/her hand.
>
> David Frye, U. Michigan
>
>


From karttu at nantucket.net  Mon Apr  9 21:58:40 2001
From: karttu at nantucket.net (Frances Karttunen)
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 17:58:40 -0400
Subject: Length of the vowel in -tzin"
Message-ID: <MON.9.APR.2001.175840.0400.>

People who yearn for symmetry in morphology want the vowel in -tzin/-tzi:n
to be long to make it like the long vowels in the other attitudinal suffixes
(-to:n, -pi:l, -po:l).  I don't think this is much of a reason.  But the
fact that the vowels in the other suffixes are long MIGHT have been a factor
in changing the one in -tzin to long over time, regularizing it in the same
fashion of English has regularized many "strong" verbs.

There is no doubt that -tzin has the reflex of a long vowel in most or all
varieties of Nahuatl as spoken recently.

The glyphic evidence, as you say, is not strong, since the glyphs seem to
have been gross approximations.  Someone with a good sense of contrastive
vowel length should go through the Codex Mendoza, for instance, and see how
many unequivocal cases of vowel-length conflict between elements of names
and the symbols used for the.  Does vowel length matter in glyphs or not?

Fran

----------
>From: "Anthony Appleyard" <mclssaa2 at fs2.mt.umist.ac.uk>
>To: nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu
>Subject: Length of the vowel in -tzin"
>Date: Thu, Apr 5, 2001, 5:09 AM
>

>
> When Karttunen's book 1 discusses the length of the vowel in the suffix "-
> tzin" in its various meanings at various times, it says that one evidence that
> that vowel was long in classical Tenochtitlanian Nahuatl, is that the
> "buttocks" heiroglyph (the lower half of a crouching man, "tzi:ntli") is used
> as a phonetic for "-tzinco" as the end part of some place names. But can we
> rely on a phonetic match being that exact when scribes were likely driven to
> many expedients in trying to use picture writing for a language with a lot of
> inflectional endings? The same difficulties arose in adapting the Chinese
> writing system to write Japanese, which like Nahuatl has a lot of inflections.
>
> Citlalyani
>
>
> John Frederick Schwaller                             schwallr at selway.umt.edu
> Associate Provost                                        406-243-4722
> The University of Montana                           FAX 406-243-5937
>                                http://www.umt.edu/provost/
>


From davius_sanctex at terra.es  Tue Apr 10 18:59:42 2001
From: davius_sanctex at terra.es (David Sanchez)
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 20:59:42 +0200
Subject: Pronunciation?
Message-ID: <TUE.10.APR.2001.205942.0200.>

Another doubt on pronunciation:

3) D. Tuggy metions that to words endding in final vowels are pronounced
with an extra non-phonological glottal stop. The rule that vowels preceding
glottal stop and in final possition are shortened supports this claim. But
if:

choca 'he/she cryes'        is uttered        [tSo:ka?]

What is the phonetic (non phonological!) difference between <cho:ca> 'he
cryes' and <cho:kah> 'they cry'.

Thank you, in advance
Davius


From david.gloster at muenchen.roses.de  Fri Apr 13 14:00:37 2001
From: david.gloster at muenchen.roses.de (David Gloster)
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 16:00:37 +0200
Subject: nanacameh
Message-ID: <FRI.13.APR.2001.160037.0200.>

Dear Tom,

sorry for the late reply.

I found the term nanacatzitzen, relating to halucinogenic mushrooms, in a
transcription given to me in 1975 by Luis Reyes Garc?a. Luis had collected the
information in his own home town of Amatl?n de los Reyes, Veracruz, from Felipa
Reyes, about 70 years of age at the time and daughter of a "partera emp?rica"
who was active up till around 1910. She recounts how and why her forefathers
used to consume the mushrooms.
In her account she only uses the term nanacatzitzen, she doesn't use the verb
you mention, nanacatia. An alternative name for these mushrooms was tlacatzitzen
(hombrecitos). This name comes from the "little people, like children" that the
person eating the mushrooms sees during the halucination and who answer his/her
questions. The tlacatzitzen are supposed to come from Tlalocan, therefore it is
the earth which answers the questions, as the earth on which we live sees
everything and knows everything.

Hope this is of interest.

Best regards

David Gloster
Munich, Germany

tom grigsby wrote:

> Estimados listeros,
>
> I?ve collected nanacameh (< nanacatl, hongo) as one of the interchangeable
> words used for the ahuaqueh, the invisible owners of water that inhabit the
> netherworld in Tepoztlan, Morelos.  A verb form, nanacatia, is used as a
> synonym for ?to benumb.?  Has anyone come across similar uses of these terms
> in their fieldwork or library research?  I?d appreciate any citations that
> you can give me.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tom Grigsby
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com


From tom_grigsby at hotmail.com  Fri Apr 13 14:48:32 2001
From: tom_grigsby at hotmail.com (tom grigsby)
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 14:48:32 -0000
Subject: nanacameh
Message-ID: <FRI.13.APR.2001.144832.0000.>

Dear David,
Thank you very much for your reply.  The data that you've provided fits very
well with my findings in Morelos.  It appears that the use of mushroom to
contact the "hombrecitos" has been lost in Tepoztlan, but the name suggests
its historic use.
Thanks again,
Tom



_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com


From mdmorris at indiana.edu  Fri Apr 13 17:35:03 2001
From: mdmorris at indiana.edu (Mark David Morris)
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 12:35:03 -0500
Subject: nanacameh
In-Reply-To: <3AD70684.B5BB9AE6@muenchen.roses.de>
Message-ID: <FRI.13.APR.2001.123503.0500.>

David etc.

I think the article of which Luis gave you a manuscript copy is published
in Tlalocan c.a. 1968-1973 if anyboyd is interested in pursuing the
content of it.

sincerely,
Mark Morris



















~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

La muerte tiene permiso a todo

MDM, PhD Candidate
Dept. of History, Indiana Univ.


From jsullivan at prodigy.net.mx  Mon Apr 23 03:21:52 2001
From: jsullivan at prodigy.net.mx (John Joseph Sullivan Hendricks)
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 11:21:52 +0800
Subject: Teyumej
Message-ID: <MON.23.APR.2001.112152.0800.>

Forgive my absolute ignorance on the subject of the nahua spiritual world,
but I asked some questions of one of my assistants, whose father was a well
known tepatiketl (curandero) in the Huasteca before he died, about the
discussion on the wee critters that make you sick. Here goes:
    One way of getting sick is to get infected by a teyutl ("teotl", I
suppose. Plural = teyumej). These are "little animals so small that you
can't see them", and the general symptoms are pains in any part of your body
(rheumatic pains are the most common). You can get infected basically in two
ways. By going into uninhabited wilderness (high mountains, or passing by a
cave) where the teyumej live. Also, a tepatiketl will bury (in the ground or
under a rock in a stream) the instruments used to cure a patient infected by
teyumej. So if you happen to walk by such a place, you can also become
infected.
    The "ajakwinij" (sing = ajakatl) are the spirits of the mountains, air,
water, fog, etc., which constitute the life of the universe. These are
invoked by the tepatiketl to cure a person infected by the teyumej.
    They are also invoked to help cure people who are ill because they
unexpectedly ran into a wild animal (nawalli) while they were walking along,
and the fright caused their "tonal" (life force) to get temporarily stuck on
that spot. Part of the cure for this is for the tepatiketl to go to the spot
where the event ocurred, get dirt from that spot and tie it into seven
little balls around the bottom of the patient's shirt. The symptoms of this
kind of illness is lack of appetite, nightmares, and fever.
    These are two ways to get sick. There is a third, which is to run into
an apparition of the devil, "tlen amo kwalli". This can cause loss of
appetite, nightmares, fever, and visions.
    In general, curing ceremonies are called a "kampeka"

    John Sullivan
    Universidad Aut?noma de Zacatecas