From owner-nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu Thu May 3 17:44:02 2001 From: owner-nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu (owner-nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu) Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 11:44:02 -0600 Subject: No subject Message-ID: We are nearing the end of the academic year. Since many subscribers are students or faculty and may be gone for part of the summer, I request that you please remember to unsubscribe from the list before leaving town or turning your computer off. This can be done by sending this message: Sender: owner-nahuat-l at majordomo.umt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nahuat-l at majordomo.umt.edu unsubscribe nahuat-l to this address: majordomo at majordomo.umt.edu Over the summer the discussion list will be moving to a new server. I am working with the technical folks to make this as simple as possible so that none of you will be inconvenienced. As of July 1, I will not longer be at The University of Montana, but will become the Vice Chancellor and Dean of the University of Minnesota, Morris. Consequently this discussion list, and the associated web site, will be moving in late June - early July. J. F. Schwaller List owner John Frederick Schwaller schwallr at selway.umt.edu Associate Provost 406-243-4722 The University of Montana FAX 406-243-5937 http://www.umt.edu/provost/ From ksmith at umail.ucsb.edu Mon May 7 16:30:54 2001 From: ksmith at umail.ucsb.edu (Kevin P Smith) Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 09:30:54 -0700 Subject: Ahuachpitzactzin Message-ID: Can anyone translate the name, Ahuachpitzactzin? Any and all help would be much appreciated. ksmith at umail.ucsb.edu From campbel at indiana.edu Mon May 7 17:15:36 2001 From: campbel at indiana.edu (r. joe campbell) Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 12:15:36 -0500 Subject: Ahuachpitzactzin In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Kevin, It's "fine drizzle" (with respect): ahhuachtli drizzle, dew pitza:ctli something thin (from 'pitza:hua' "make something narrow, slender") tzin honorific suffix Joe On Mon, 7 May 2001, Kevin P Smith wrote: > Can anyone translate the name, Ahuachpitzactzin? Any and all help would be > much appreciated. > > ksmith at umail.ucsb.edu > > From davius_sanctex at terra.es Mon May 7 17:18:45 2001 From: davius_sanctex at terra.es (David Sanchez) Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 19:18:45 +0200 Subject: Ahuachpitzactzin Message-ID: > Can anyone translate the name, Ahuachpitzactzin? Any and all help would be > much appreciated. I'm not sure ... but this name can be reinterpreted as Ahhuach-pitzac-tzin /ahwatx-pitsak-tsin/, that is "something thin and long that is covered with dew" or "damp pole (?)". Another possibility could be a:-huach-pitzac-tzin /ä-watx-pitsak-tsin/ that is "water seed of some kind of tree (pitzac-)" ... but really I don't know if some of these two translations is the correct translation for the name Ahuachpitzactzin. David Sanchez From campbel at indiana.edu Mon May 7 18:21:44 2001 From: campbel at indiana.edu (r. joe campbell) Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 13:21:44 -0500 Subject: Ahuachpitzactzin In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Follow-up on the sequence 'pitz' -- since it occurs in several morphemes and not all occurrences of it are easy to recognize, I collected some of them (all of them from the Florentine Codex). Joe pi:tza*** (blow) apitza , c-. he purges it, he defecates it. . apitza , m[o]-. he has bloody diarrhea. . apitza , m[o]-. he has diarrhea; they have diarrhea. . apitza , nin[o]-. I get diarrhea; I have diarrhea. . apitzal , i-. his diarrhea; their diarrhea. . apitzalli. diarrhea, fluid intestinal evacuation. . apitzalti , te-. it causes diarrhea. . apitzaltic. something which causes diarrhea. . apitzaltiz , c-. it will give him diarrhea. . apitzaltontli. little bit of diarrhea. . mapipitzoa. he whistles; it whistles; there is whistling; they whistle. . mapipitzoani. one who whistles with his fingers; shrill whistler; whistler. . mapipitzoliztli. act of whistling through the fingers. . pitz , omitz-. she cast you. . pitz , omo-. it was cast. . pitza , mo-. it becomes inflamed; it blows; it flares up; it flared; it is cast; it is blown; it is melted; it is inflamed; they are cast. . pitza , nic-. I blow it; I cast it. . pitza , qui-. he blows it; it blows on him; she blows it; she casts him; they blow it; they cast it; they blow it off. . pitza , tla-. he blows a pipe; he casts [i.e.; metal]; it blows a trumpet; they blow; they blow (e.g.; trumpets); they blow [e.g.; trumpet shell]; they blow trumpets. . pitzalli , tla-. act of blowing; flute; something which is cast [i.e.; metal]; something cast [e.g.; something which is blown [e.g.; trumpet]. . pitzalnamacac , tla-. seller of cast metal objects. . pitzalo , tla-. flutes are blown; musical instruments are blown; shell trumpets are blown; there is blowing of shell trumpets; trumpets are blown; there is blowing. . pitzalo. they are forged. . pitzaloc , o-. it was cast. . pitzaloni. blower; something which can be cast; something that can be cast; something that can be blown. . pitzalotiuh , tla-. there is going blowing musical instruments. . pitzaloya , tla-. there was blowing of trumpets; trumpets were blown. . pitzaloz , tla-. there will be sounding of trumpets. . pitzalpan , tla-. time of blowing of trumpets. . pitzaya , qui-. he blew it [i.e., trumpet]; they cast it. . pitzaya , tla-. they sounded a trumpet. . pitzaz , qui-. he will blow it. . pitzque , oqui-. they molded it. . pitztiquiza , qui-. he quickly blows it. . pitztiquiza , tla-. he quickly whistles. . teccizpichilia , qui-. they blow shell trumpets for him. . teocuitlapitza , ni-. I cast gold. . teocuitlapitzaya. they cast (past) gold. . teocuitlapitzque. gold-workers; goldcasters; goldsmiths. . teocuitlapitzqui. gold-worker; goldcaster; goldsmith. . tepozpitza , ni-. I cast copper. . tepozpitza. he casts copper. . tepozpitzque. metal casters. . tepozpitzqui. coppercaster; copper caster; coppersmith. . tlepitza. he blows the fire; it blows the fire. . xalpitza , ni-. I blow sand. . pitza:hua*** (become slender, make slender) acapitzac , i-. his reed stalk. . acapitzactli. long reed. . ahhuachpitzactli. thin drizzle. . apitzactli. stream; thin stream of water. . apitzactotonti. little streams. . chiampitzahuac. small chia seed. . cuapitzahua. it becomes slender at the top. . cuapitzahuac. narrow at the top; pointed at the head; slender at the tip; slender at the top; thin at the top. . cuapitzahuacan , i-. its tip. . cuapitzahuaya , i-. its slender end. . cuappitzahuac. slender tree. . ixpipitzahuac. slender. . ixpitzahuac. fine, tiny; small. . mapipitzahuac. having slender leaves; having slender branches. . mapitzahuac. having slender leaves. . matzotzopazpitzahuaya , to-. slender part of our forearm. . mecapitzahuac. like a slender cord. . metzpitzahuaya , to-. slender part of our thigh. . nelhuayopitzahuac. having slender roots. . ohpitzacquetza , n-. I follow the trail. . ohpitzactli. trail, path; narrow road. . olopitzahuac. having a slender cob. . olpitzahuac. thin piece of rubber. . opitzacochpana , n-. I sweep the trail. . opitzactli. narrow road; path; trail. . otlapitzactli. long stout cane. . petlapitzahuac. narrow mat. . pipitzahuac. slender; thin. . pitzactic. slender. . pitzactontli. little and thin; rather thin; small and narrow; small and slender. . pitzactotonti. small and slender. . pitzahua , nic-. I make it thin; I make it narrow; I narrow it. . pitzahua , tla-. he sings in falsetto; it becomes thin; it becomes narrow; it becomes slender; it howls in a high-pitched voice; it narrows; it screams; they sing in a high pitch; they use falsetto. . pitzahua. it becomes thin; it becomes narrow; it becomes slender; they become slender. . pitzahuac , tla-. long and narrow. . pitzahuac. fine; flaked; high-pitched; long and thin; long and slender; minute; narrow; slender; small; thin and long; thin. . pitzahuacatequini , tla-. one who cuts something into narrow strips. . pitzahuacaxotlani , tla-. one who cuts something into narrow strips. . pitzahuaya , tla-. narrowed place; slender place. . pitzahuaya , to-. our waist. . quechpitzahuac. having a slender neck. . tamalpitzahuac. narrow tamale. . tempitzactic. narrow-muzzled, having a narrow muzzle. . tempitzahua , tla-. they become thin-lipped. . tempitzahuac. having a slender bill; having a slender muzzle; having a thin muzzle; thin-muzzled. . tempitzaton. rather thin-muzzled, having a thin muzzle. . tlalhuapitzactli. thin nerve. . tolpitzahuac. slender reed; thin reed. . tzimpitzahuac. having a slender abdomen; long and thin at the root; narrow at the base; narrow at the bottom; slender at the base; slender-tailed; having a slender tail; slender on the end; slender at the bottom; tapering toward the bottom; thin at the base. . xalpitzactic. like fine sand. . xalpitzahuac. fine sand. . xalpitzahuacayo. having fine sand. . yacapitzahua. they become pointed at the end. . yacapitzahuac. !name=yacapitzahuac; eared grebe; slender at the end; tapering; sharp-tipped. . yacapitzahuaca , to-. thin part of our nose. . pitzi:ni*** (burst) pitzini. it breaks; it bursts open; it bursts; it breaks open. . pitzotl*** (pig) caltepipitzotl. pigsty. . pitzonacatl. flesh of pig, pork. . pitzonequi , qui-. he uses it like a pig, he uses it excessively; they lust for it like pigs. . pitzotl. pig. . pi:tztli*** (fruitpit, something hard) cuappitztic. stiff. . cuauhtepitztli. hard tree; hard wood. . pitzahui , te-. it hardens. . tentepitztic. hard. . tepitzahui , tla-. it hardens. . tepitzahui. he becomes firm, hard; it becomes hard; it hardens. . tepitzauhya , tla-. hardened place. . tepitzpatic. very hard. . tepitztic. hard; firm. . tlaltepitzpan. in hard soil. . tzintepitztli. rump bone. . yollotepitztic. courageous, brave; . . From campbel at indiana.edu Mon May 7 18:25:23 2001 From: campbel at indiana.edu (r. joe campbell) Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 13:25:23 -0500 Subject: Ahuachpitzactzin In-Reply-To: Message-ID: More follow-up: These are the occurrences of 'pitz' from the Florentine Codex and from Molina's three dictionaries. The occurrences of 'pitz' in the FC that are still unglossed are not included. Molina's glosses are given in his original Spanish. Joe acapitzac, i-. his reed stalk (FC). acapitzactla. carrizal (55m, 71m1, 71m2). acapitzactli. carrizo especie de ca�a (55m, 71m1); carrizo, o especie de ca�a (71m2); long reed (FC). ahhuachpitzactli. thin drizzle (FC). amatlapalpitzatoton. small and slender leaves (FC). apampitzactli. surco para sacar el agua (55m, 71m1); sangradera de agua (71m2). apitza, eztli nic- . camaras de sangre tener (71m1). apitza, m[o]- . doliente de camaras (55m, 71m1). apitza, nin- . camaras tener (55m, 71m1). apitza, nin- (oninapitz). tener camaras (71m2). apitza, c-. he purges it, he defecates it (FC). apitza, m[o]-. he has bloody diarrhea (FC); he has diarrhea (FC); they have diarrhea (FC). apitza, nin[o]-. I get diarrhea (FC); I have diarrhea (FC). apitzactli. stream (FC); thin stream of water (FC). apitzactotonti. little streams (FC). apitzal, i-. his diarrhea (FC); their diarrhea (FC). apitzaliztli, ne- . camaras (55m); dolencia assi (55m); camaras (71m1); dolencia assi (71m1); enfermedad de camaras (71m2). apitzalli. camara assi (55m, 71m1); camaras (71m2); diarrhea (FC); diarrhea, fluid intestinal evacuation (FC). apitzaltic. something which causes diarrhea (FC). apitzaltiz, c-. it will give him diarrhea (FC). apitzaltontli. little bit of diarrhea (FC). atl ipitzahuayan, huei- . estrecho de mar (71m2). atl ipitzahuayan, huey- . mar estrecho (55m). atompitztli. pilar de fuente sobre que se pone la ta�a delos ca�os que corren (71m1); pilar horadado de fuente, sobre el qual sepone la taza. &c (71m2). atoyapitzactli. riatillo peque�o rio (55m, 71m1). atoyapitzactontli. rio peque�o (55m, 71m1). cahuallotzatzapitzaliztli. espolada (55m, 71m1). caltepipitzotl. pigsty (FC). campanapitzqui. campanero que las haze (55m, 71m1). castillan pitzahuac etl. lentejas legumbre (55m, 71m1). cecuappitzahui, ni- . calambre tener (71m1). cecuappitzahui, ni- (onicecuappitzauh). tener calambre (71m2). chiampitzahuac. small chia seed (FC). chichipitza, con-. he spatters it (FC). chichipitza, qui-. they spatter it (FC). chochopitztli, tla- . picada cosa de muchas picaduras (55m, 71m1). cohuaxolopitzintli. stupid little snake, stupid little serpent (FC). coztic teocuitlapitzqui. platero que labra oro (55m, 71m1, 71m2). cuacuappitzahui, ni- . enertarse los miembros (55m, 71m1). cuapitzahua. it becomes slender at the top (FC). cuapitzahuac. figura ahusada haziarriba y ancha abaxo (55m); figura ahusada hazia arriba y ancha abaxo (71m1); figura ahusada hazia arriba, y ancho en lo baxo (71m2); narrow at the top (FC); pointed at the head, narrow at the top (FC); slender at the tip (FC); slender at the top (FC); thin at the top (FC). cuapitzahuacan, i-. its tip (FC). cuapitzahuaya, i-. its slender end (FC). cuapitzinia, nic-. I smash his head (FC). cuappitzactli. palo delgado (71m2). cuappitzahuac. slender tree (FC). cuappitzahui. empedernecerse o pararse duro el pan o cosa assi (55m, 71m1). cuappitzahui . endurecerse el pan (71m1). cuappitzahui, ni- . enuararse (55m); enhertarse (71m1); enuararse (71m1). cuappitzahui, ni- (onicuappitzauh). enuararse, o pararse yerto (71m2). cuappitzahui, ni-. I become numb (FC). cuappitzahuiliztli. aspereza assi (55m); enuaramiento (55m, 71m1); enuaramiento assi (71m2). cuappitzauh, o-. it stiffened (FC). cuappitzauhqui. enuarado (55m); enertado assi (71m1); enuarado (71m1); persona enuarada o yerta, cosa aspera, crudia, o acucharrada, assi como tortillas secas. &c. o persona cence�a y enxuta (71m2); harsh (FC). cuappitzhuac, o-. it dried stiff as a board (FC). cuappitzoa, mo- . yerto pararse el muerto quando espira (55m); yerto pararse el muerto,quando espira (71m1). cuappitzoa, mo- (omocuappitzo). pararse yerto el muerto (71m2). cuappitzoa, nino- . pararse yerto (71m1). cuappitzoa, nino- (oninocuappitzo). pararse yerto como palo (71m2). cuappitzoa, mo-. it becomes rigid (FC). cuappitzoa, tic-. we harden it (FC). cuappitztic. aspera cosa como vestidura (55m); cence�o o enxuto (55m); enertado assi (55m); aspera cosa (71m1); aspera yerudia cosa, assi como cuero, tortillas secas, &c (71m1); cence�o enxuto (71m1); empedernido desta manera (71m1); enertado assi (71m1); lo mesmo es que quappitzauhqui cuappitztic totopochhuacqui. empedernido assi (55m). cuappitztiliztli. aspereza assi (71m1); aspereza tal (71m1). cuatepipitzinia, quin-. they crush their skulls with a rock (FC); they crush their heads with stones (FC). cuatepipitziniloya. her was crushed between stones (FC). cuatepipitzinizque, quin-. they will break their heads (FC). cuatepitzinia, nite- . descalabrar con piedra (71m1); machucar la cabe�a a otro (71m1). cuatepitzinia, nite- (onitecuatepitzini). descalabrar o quebrantar la cabeza a otro (71m2). cuatepitzinia, nic-. I bash his head (FC). cuatepitzinia, te-. he wounds someone on the head (FC). cuatepitziniani, te- . machucador tal (71m1). cuatepitziniliztli, te- . descalabradura tal (71m1); machucadura de cabe�a (71m1). cuatepitzinilli, tla- . descalabrado assi (71m1). cuatepitziniqui, te- . machucador tal (71m1). cuauhpitzactli. palo o vara delgada (71m2). cuauhpitzahui, ni- (onicuauhpitzauh). enuararse o pararse yerto (71m2). cuauhpitzahuiliztli. aspereza tal (71m1). cuauhtepitztli. hard tree (FC); hard wood (FC). cuauhtlapitzalli. flute (FC). cuauhtzatzapitzo. cosa que tiene rexas, o cosa enrexada (71m2). cuauhtzatzapitztli. rexa de palo (55m, 71m1); rexa de madera (71m2). cuauhtzatzapitzyo. rexada cosa desta manera (55m, 71m1). cuaxipitzoa, nite- . encaluecer a otro (55m). cuitlapitz. pan�udo (55m, 71m1); hombre panzudo (71m2). cuitlatepitzahui. colico, el que padece esta enfermedad. tambien quiere dezir, restre�ido (71m1). cuitlaxcolpitzactli. tripas delgadas (55m, 71m1, 71m2); empty gutted (FC); thin intestines (FC). ecapitzactli. ayre delgado (55m, 71m1); ayre sotil y delgado (71m2); narrow current of air (FC). ehuahuilacapitzo. gaytero (55m, 71m1, 71m2). ehuahuilacapitzoa, n- (onehuahuilacapitzo). ta�er gaita (71m2). ehuahuilacapitzoani. gaytero (55m, 71m1). ehuahuilacapitztli. gayta (55m, 71m1); gaita (71m2). ehuatlapitza, n- . follar (71m1). ehuatlapitza, n- (onehuatlapitz). ta�er gayta (71m2). ehuatlapitzalhuehuetl. organo instrumento musico (55m); organo,instrumento musico (71m1); organo (71m2). ehuatlapitzali. gayta (55m). ehuatlapitzalli. gayta (71m1, 71m2). ehuatlapitzqui. gaytero (55m); gaitero (71m2). ehuatlepitzaloni. fuelles para soplar (55m, 71m1); fuelles de organo (71m2). ehuatlepitzalonito. fuelles peque�as (55m, 71m1); fuelles peque�as de organo peque�o (71m2). eltepitztli. la paletilla (71m2). ezcocopitzactli. vena rotil de rangre (71m1); vena sotil del cuerpo (71m2). ezococpitzactli. vena sotil de sangre (55m). eztli nicapitza, - (eztli onicapitz). tener camaras de sangre (71m2). hicoxhuatzalli tlatepitztentli. higos enserados (55m, 71m1). hueyatl ipitzahuayan. mar estrecho (71m1). huilacapitzalhuia, quin-. they play flutes for them (FC). huilacapitzchiuhqui. flautero que las haze (55m, 71m1). huilacapitzo. flautero el que las ta�e (55m); ta�edor tal (55m); flautero el que las ta�e (71m1); ta�edor tal (71m1); el que ta�e flauta, o pifaro (71m2). huilacapitzoa, ni- . ta�er pisaro o cosa assi (55m); ta�er pifaro o cosa assi (71m1). huilacapitzoa, ni- (onihuilacapitzo). ta�er flauta (71m2). huilacapitzoani. flautero el que las ta�e (55m); ta�edor tal (55m); flautero el que las ta�e (71m1); ta�edor tal (71m1); flautero que la ta�e (71m2). huilacapitzoaya. they played flutes (FC). huilacapitzohua, ni- . flauta, ta�er (71m1). huilacapitzoqui. gaytero (71m1). huilacapitzxochitl. iazmin delos vergeles (55m); iazmin de los vergeles (71m1). ieltepitz. pechuga de aue (71m1). ihpitzaliztli, te-. act of blowing evil on someone (FC). ihuilacapitz. his flute (FC). ilpitza, nite- . soplar hazia otro (55m, 71m1). ilpitza, nite- (oniteilpitz). soplar a otro (71m2). [i]lpitza, nitla- . soplar (55m, 71m1). ilpitza, nitla pani- . soplar a fuera (71m1). ilpitza, nitla- (onitlalpitz). soplar (71m2). [i]lpitza, pani nitla- . soplar a fuera (55m, 71m1). ilpitza, con-. he blows it away (FC). [i]lpitza, tla-. it blows (FC). [i]lpitzaliztli, tla- . espiritu o soplo (55m); sopladura (55m); soplo (55m); espiritu o soplo (71m1); sopladura (71m1); soplo (71m1, 71m2). [i]lpitztli, tla- . soplado (55m, 71m1). ipitz, tiquim-. you inspired them (FC). ipitza, tiquim-. you inspire them (FC). ipitzahuayan in ilhuica atl. estrecho de mar entre dos tierras (71m2). ipitzahuayan in ilhuicaatl. estrecha mar entre dos tierras (55m, 71m1). ipitzahuayan in tlalli. estrecha tierra (55m, 71m1). ipitzahuayan intlalli. estrechura de tierra entre dos mares (71m2). ipitzazque, quim-. they will blow on them (FC). itzimpitzahuayan. hondon (55m, 71m1). [i]xcalcuappitztli, tla-. dried tortilla (FC). ixcapitztic. tuerto de vn ojo (55m, 71m1). ixcopitzalhuia, nite- . acepillar algo a otro (71m1). ixcopitzalhuia, nite- (oniteixcopitzalhui). acepillar algo a otro (71m2). ixcopitzoa, n- (onixcopitzo). gui�ar el ojo o vizcar (71m2). ixpipitzahuac. slender (FC). ixpitzahuac. carimenudo (71m1, 71m2); fine, tiny (FC); small (FC). ixpitzictic. tuerto del ojo (71m2). ixpitzictiliztli. entortamiento de ojo (71m2). ixpitzinia, nite- . quebrar el ojo a otro (71m1). ixpitzinia, nite- (oniteixpitzini). quebrar el ojo a otro (71m2). ixpitzinia, niqu-. I smash it in the eye (FC). ixtelolo pitzinia, nite- (oniteixtelolopitzini). quebrar el ojo a otro (71m2). ixtelolopitzini, n- . entortarse (55m). ixtelolopitzini, n- (onixtelolopitzin). quebrarseme el ojo (71m2). ixtelolopitzinia, nite- . entortar a otro quebrarle el ojo (55m); entortar a otro, quebrandole el ojo (71m1). ixtelolopitzinia, niqu-. I smash it in the eyeball (FC). ixtelolopitzinilli, tla- . entortado (55m, 71m1); entordado de vn ojo (71m2). iztac teocuitla pitzqui. platero (71m2). iztac teocuitlapitzqui. platero (71m1). iztacteocuitlapitzqui. platero (55m). mapipitzahuac. having slender branches (FC); having slender leaves (FC). mapipitzoa. he whistles (FC); it whistles (FC); there is whistling (FC); they whistle (FC). mapipitzoa, nino- . chuparse los dedos (71m1). mapipitzoa, nino- (oninomapipitzo). chuparse los dedos (71m2). mapipitzoa, ni- (onimapipitzo). siluo hecho con las manos (71m2). mapipitzoa, nite- . chupar a otro los dedos (71m1). mapipitzoani. one who whistles with his fingers (FC); shrill whistler (FC); whistler (FC). mapipitzoani, mo- . chupador tal (71m1). mapipitzoani, te- . chupador tal (71m1). mapipitzoliztli. act of whistling through the fingers (FC). mapipitzoliztli, ne- . chupadura desta manera (71m1). mapipitzoliztli, te- . chupamiento assi (71m1). mapitzahuac. having slender leaves (FC). matlapitza, ni- (onimatlapitz). siluar con las manos y boca (71m2). matlapitzaliztli. siluo hecho con las manos (55m, 71m1); siluo tal (71m2). matzotzopazpitzahuaya, to-. slender part of our forearm (FC). mecapitzahuac. like a slender cord (FC). metzpitzahuaya, to-. slender part of our thigh (FC). michtepitzitzin. small fish, small fishes (FC). miequintin pitzome. piara de puercos (71m2). molicpitzin, i-. his [H.] elbow (FC); his elbow [H.] (FC). moyollo tepitziliani. paciente (71m1). nelhuayopitzahuac. having slender roots (FC). neuctlatepitzhuatzalli. turron (71m2). neyollotepitziliztica. pacientemente (71m1). nixtelolopitzini. entortarse (71m1). nomapipitzoqui. chupador tal (71m1). ohpitzacquetza, n-. I follow the trail (FC). ohpitzactli. trail (FC); trail, narrow road (FC); trail, path (FC). olchichipitza, con-. they sprinkle it with liquid rubber (FC). olopitzahua, nic-. I cause it to have a slender cob (FC). olopitzahuac. having a slender cob (FC). olpitzahuac. thin piece of rubber (FC). opitzacochpana, n-. I sweep the trail (FC). opitzactli. senda o sendero (55m); vereda o senda (55m); senda o sendero (71m1); vereta o renta (71m1); senda, vereda, o camino muy estrecho (71m2); narrow road (FC); path (FC); trail (FC). otlapitzactli. long stout cane (FC). paltepitzactli, tla-. red and slender (FC). pani ilpitza, nitla- (onitlapani ilpitz). soplar por encima, o por defuera (71m2). paniilpitza, nitla- . soplar a fuera (55m). petlapitzahuac. narrow mat (FC). pipipitzca. they squeak continually (FC). pipitza, nitla- (onitlapipitz). follar, o soplarmuchas vezes (71m2). pipitzahuac. slender (FC); thin (FC). pipitzaliztli, ne- . encendimiento tal (55m); encendimiento desta manera (71m1). pipitzato. very thin (FC). pipitzca. bramar el cieruo (55m, 71m1); it barks (FC); it chatters (FC); it chirps (FC); it shrieks (FC); it squeals (FC); it whistles shrilly (FC); they neigh (FC); they squeak (FC); they wail (FC). pipitzca, ni- . chillar (55m); rechinar (55m); relinchar el cauallo (55m); chillar (71m1); rechinar (71m1); relinchar el cauallo (71m1). pipitzca, ni- (onipipitzcac). bramar el cieruo, relinchar el cauallo, o chillar el raton (71m2). pipitzca, tehuan ni- . relinchar al relinchido (55m, 71m1). pipitzca, tla-. there is neighing (FC). pipitzcaliztli. brama de cieruos (55m); chillido (55m); relincho (55m); brama de cieruos (71m1); chillido (71m1); relincho (71m1); ruydo de viento (71m1); bramido, relincho, o chillido desta manera (71m2). pipitzcaliztli, tehuan- . relinchido assi (55m, 71m1). pipitzcani. bramador assi (71m1); barker (FC); screamer (FC). pipitzcatica. it is shrieking (FC). pipitzcaticate. they are squeaking continually (FC). pipitzoa, nitla- . chupar sin mascar (55m); chupar alguna cosa sin maxcarla (71m1). pipitzoa, nitla- (onitlapipitzo). chupar, o roer algo (71m2). pipitzoani, tla- . chupador tal (71m1). pipitzoliztli, tla- . chupadura desta manera (71m1). pipitzolli, tla- . chupados dedos (71m1); chupada cosa ass (71m1). pipitzqui, mo- . encendido assi (55m, 71m1); encendido de yra (71m2). pipitzquilia, quin-. it squeals for them (FC). pipitzquiltia, nite- (onitepipitzquilti). hazer chillar a otro (71m2). pipitzquiltia, nitla- . hazer pinol de chia, o bru�ir alguna cosa (71m1). pipitztlatoa. they speak like gulls (FC). pitz, omitz-. she cast you (FC). pitz, ontla-. he sounded his flute, he blew something (FC). pitza, nino- . encenderse yra (55m); encenderse de yra (71m1). pitza, nino- (oninopitz). pararse bermejo o encenderse de enojo (71m2). pitza, nitla- . encender huego (55m); hundir metal (55m); ta�er flautas o cosa semejante o trompeta (55m); flauta, ta�er (71m1); follar (71m1); hundir metal (71m1); soplar o ta�er flauta o cheremia (71m1); ta�er flautas o cosa semejante,o trompeta (71m1). pitza, nitlal- (onitlalpitz). soplar (71m2). pitza, nitla- (onitlapitz). ta�er otocar trompeta, cheremia, flauta, o otro instrumento semejante, o soplar el fuego (71m2). pitza, nitlatlal- (onitlatlalpitz). soplar muchas vezes (71m2). pitza, tepoztli nic- . fundir metales (55m). pitza, tepoztli nic - . fundir metales (71m1). pitza, mo-. it becomes inflamed (FC); it blows (FC); it flared (FC); it flares up (FC); it is blown (FC); it is cast (FC); it is inflamed (FC); it is melted (FC); they are cast (FC). pitza, nic-. I blow it (FC); I cast it, I blow it (FC). pitza, qui-. he blows it (FC); it blows on him (FC); she blows it; she casts him (FC); they blow it (FC); they blow it off (FC); they cast it (FC). pitza, tla-. he blows a pipe (FC); he casts [i.e., metal] (FC); it blows a trumpet (FC); they blow (FC); they blow (e.g., trumpets) (FC); they blow [e.g., trumpet shell] (FC); they blow trumpets (FC). pitzactic. delgado assi (55m); delgada cosa assi (71m1); cosa delgada y larga, assi comovara, soga o cosas semejantes (71m2); slender (FC). pitzactli. delgada cosa assi (71m1); cosa delgada y larga, assi comovara, soga o cosas semejantes (71m2). pitzactontli. little and thin (FC); rather thin (FC); small and narrow (FC); small and slender (FC). pitzahua. it becomes narrow (FC); it becomes slender (FC); it becomes thin (FC); they become slender (FC). pitzahua, ni- . emmagrecerse (55m, 71m1). pitzahua, ni- (onipitzahuac). pararse delgado y flaco (71m2). pitzahua, nite- . emmagrecer a otro (55m, 71m1). pitzahua, nitla- . adelgazar hilo o cosas largas rollizas (55m); cantar tiple (55m); adelgazar hilo o cosas largas y rollizas o cantar con boz delgada y mugeril (71m1); cantar tiple (71m1). pitzahua, nitla- (onitlapitzauh). adelgazar palos o sogas, o hablar alto la muger, o cantar. &c (71m2); cantar tiple, o como muger, o adelgazar o desbastar maderos o varas (71m2). pitzahua, nitlatla- (onitlatlapitzauh). dar bozes o cantar la muger muchas vezes (71m2). pitzahua, nic-. I make it narrow (FC); I make it thin (FC); I narrow it (FC). pitzahua, tla-. he sings in falsetto (FC); it becomes narrow, it becomes thin (FC); it becomes slender (FC); it becomes thin (FC); it howls in a high-pitched voice (FC); it narrows (FC); it screams (FC); they sing in a high pitch (FC); they use falsetto (FC). pitzahuac. angosta cosa tabla, papel, eredad, pared, adobe, camino o cosa assi (55m); delgado assi (55m); enxuto hombre (55m); angusta cosa, assi como tabla, heredad,pared, adobe,camino o cosa semejante (71m1); delgada cosa assi (71m1); enxuto hombre (71m1); cosa delgada, assi como varas, pilares, colunas, sogas y cosas largas y rollizas, o el camino, el viento delgado y sotil, los frisoles peque�os, lantejas, o cosas semejantes (71m2); fine (FC); flaked (FC); high-pitched (FC); long and slender (FC); long and thin (FC); minute (FC); narrow (FC); slender (FC); small (FC); thin (FC); thin and long (FC); thin, high-pitched (FC). pitzahuac, tla-. long and narrow (FC). pitzahuacatequini, tla-. one who cuts something into narrow strips (FC). pitzahuacaxotlani, tla-. one who cuts something into narrow strips (FC). pitzahuacayotl. delgadez de cosas largas (55m); delgadez de cosas largas y rollizas (71m1); delgadez tal (71m2). pitzahualiztli. emmagrecimiento (55m, 71m1). pitzahualiztli, tla- . adelgazamiento tal (55m); canto de tiple (55m); adelgazamiento tal (71m1); canto de tiple (71m1, 71m1); canto, o adelgazamiento assi (71m2). pitzahualli, tla- . adelgazada cosa assi (55m, 71m1); cosa adelgazada desta manera (71m2). pitzahuaticac, hual-. it becomes narrow as it extends (FC). pitzahuatiuh, hual-. it comes out slender (FC). pitzahuaya, tla-. narrowed place (FC); slender place (FC). pitzahuaya, to-. our waist (FC). pitzahui, te-. it hardens (FC). pitzal, itla-. his flute (FC); his trumpet (FC). pitzal, motlatla-. your flute (FC). pitzal, nimotlatla-. I am your flute (FC). pitzal, titlatla-. you are a flute (FC). pitzalhuan, motlatla-. your flutes (FC). pitzaliztli, tla- . hundicion assi (55m); hundicion assij (71m1); el acto de ta�er flauta, o otro instrumento semejante, o el acto de fundir y derretir metales (71m2). pitzalli, tla- . flauta (55m); ynstrumento musico (55m); flauta (71m1); ynstrumento musico (71m1); flauta, cheremia, orlo (71m2). pitzalli, tla-. act of blowing (FC); flute (FC); something cast [e.g., metal] (FC); something which is blown [e.g., trumpet] (FC); something which is cast [i.e., metal] (FC). pitzalnamacac, tla-. seller of cast metal objects (FC). pitzalo. they are forged (FC). pitzalo, tla-. flutes are blown (FC); musical instruments are blown (FC); shell trumpets are blown (FC); there is blowing of shell trumpets (FC); trumpets are blown (FC); trumpets are blown, there is blowing (FC). pitzaloc, o-. it was cast (FC). pitzaloc, ontla-. there was blowing of shell trumpets (FC). pitzaloc, oti-. you were cast (FC). pitzaloc, otla-. there was sounding of trumpets (FC); trumpets were blown (FC). pitzaloc, ti-. you were cast (FC); you were cast [i.e., like metal] (FC). pitzaloni. hundible cosa que se puede hundir (55m, 71m1); blower (FC); something that can be blown (FC); something that can be cast (FC); something which can be cast (FC). pitzaloni, tla- . crisol para fundir (55m); crisol para fundir oro (71m1, 71m2). pitzalotiuh, tla-. there is going blowing musical instruments (FC). pitzaloya, tla-. there was blowing of trumpets (FC); trumpets were blown (FC). pitzaloyan, tla- . hundicion el lugar donde hunden (55m, 71m1); lugar donde ta�en flautas &c. o lugar donde funden y derriten metales (71m2). pitzaloz, tla-. there will be sounding of trumpets (FC). pitzalpan, tla-. time of blowing of trumpets (FC). pitzaltenzouhcayotl, tla- . trompa de trompeta (55m); trompa de flauta, de cheremia o de trompeta (71m2). pitzani, mo- . encendido assi (55m, 71m1). pitzauhqui. emmagrecido (55m, 71m1); delgado, flaco y magro (71m2); thin (FC). pitzauhtli, tla- . adelgazada cosa assi (55m, 71m1); cosa adelgazada desta manera (71m2). pitzaya, hualla-. he blew a flute (FC). pitzaya, qui-. he blew it [i.e., trumpet] (FC); they cast it (FC). pitzaya, tla-. they blew (i.e., a shell trumpet) (FC); they sounded a trumpet (FC). pitzaz, qui-. he will blow it (FC). pitzaz, tla-. he will blow a flute (FC). pitzcan, tla- . hundicion el lugar donde hunden (55m); lugar donde funden metales, o la casa dela fundicion (71m2). pitzcoyoctic. estrecha cosa como agujero (55m); estrecha cosa, assi como agujero (71m1); estrecha cosa, assi como agujero o cosa semejante (71m2). pitzcoyocton. estrecha cosa, assi como agujero o cosa semejante (71m2). pitzcoyoctontli. estrecha cosa, assi como agujero o cosa semejante (71m2). pitzcoyoniliztli. estrechura tal (55m, 71m1, 71m2). pitzcoyonqui. estrecha cosa como agujero (55m); estrecha cosa, assi como agujero (71m1); estrecha cosa desta manera (71m2). pitzini. abrirse la llaga o nacido (55m, 71m1); it breaks (FC); it bursts open (FC); it bursts, it breaks open (FC). pitzini, - (opitzin). quebrarse el hueuo, machucarse la fruta, o quebrarse el ojo, y abrirse o rebentar el encordio o cosa semejante (71m2). pitzinia, nitla- . machucar fruta hueuos o cosa assi (55m); estrujar fruta (71m1); machucar fruta. hueuos o cosa assi (71m1). pitzinia, nitla- (onitlapitzini). quebrar assi los hueuos (71m2). pitzinia, mo-. it is crushed (FC). pitzinia, qui-. it breaks it open (FC); it dissolves it, it breaks it (FC). pitzinia, quin-. they break them open (FC). pitziniliztli, tla- . machucadura tal (55m, 71m1); el acto de machucar alguna fruta, o de quebrar algun hueuo, o cosa semejante (71m2). pitzinilli, tla- . machucada cosa assi (55m, 71m1). pitziniz, nitla-. I shall burst something (FC). pitziquihui, ni- . comer mucho (71m1). pitziquihui, ni- (onipitziquiuh). comer mucho (71m2). pitziquihuini. comedor tal (71m1). pitzitzihuan, mo-. your sisters (FC). pitzitzinhuan, i-. his beloved older sisters (FC). pitzitzinhuan, mo-. your older sisters (FC). pitzmamali, mo- . el que se mete entre otros con violencia hendiendo por ellos, o el que entra por algun agujero o lugar estrecho (71m2). pitzmamali, nino- . meterse o colarse entre otros o por algun lugar estrecho (55m); mestrecho (71m1). pitzmamalqui, mo- . metido assi (55m, 71m1). pitzo metzhuatzalli. pernil de tocino (71m2). pitzoa, mo-. it sucks (FC). pitzocalli. �ahurda de puercos (55m, 71m1, 71m2). pitzoconetl. lechon (55m, 71m1). pitzome, miequintim- . piara de ganado menudo (55m). pitzome, miequintin - . piara de ganado menudo (71m1). pitzometzhuatzalli. pernil de tocino (55m, 71m1). pitzonacatl. flesh of pig, pork (FC). pitzonequi, qui-. he uses it like a pig, he uses it excessively (FC); they lust for it like pigs (FC). pitzopixqui. porquero (55m, 71m1); porquero, o porquerizo (71m2). pitzotl. puerco o puerca (71m1); puerco (71m2); pig (FC). pitzque, oqui-. they blew it (FC); they molded it (FC). pitzque, tla-. trumpet sounders (FC). pitzqui, tla- . flautero el que las ta�e (55m); ta�edor assi (55m); flautero el que las ta�e (71m1); ta�edor assi (71m1); ta�edor de flauta, de cheremia, o trompeta &c. o fundidor de metales (71m2). pitzquiquiztic. like a passage-way for blowing (FC). pitztiaque, qui-. they went blowing it (FC). pitztiaz, tla-. he will go playing a flute (FC). pitztic. thin (FC). pitztihui, qui-. they go blowing it (FC). pitztihui, tla-. they go blowing wind instruments (FC). pitztihuitze, tla-. they come blowing trumpets (FC); they come naked (FC). pitztinemi, tla-. he goes about playing the flute (FC). pitztiquiza, qui-. he quickly blows it (FC). pitztiquiza, tla-. he quickly whistles (FC). pitztiuh, hualla-. he goes blowing [i.e., a trumpet] (FC). pitztiuh, tla-. he goes blowing [e.g., a trumpet] (FC). pitztli. cuexco de fruta (71m1); cuexco o huesso de cierta fruta (71m2). pitztoque, qui-. they kept blowing the shell trumpet (FC). quappitztic. aspera cosa crudia como cuero o tortillas secas (55m). quechpitzahuac. having a slender neck (FC). quechtacapitzpil. having a small reed-like neck (FC). quechtacapitztic. having a constricted neck (FC). tacapitzahui. it becomes thin (FC). tacapitzauhia, to-. our waist (FC). tacapitzauhqui. constricted (FC). tacapitztic. constricted (FC); thin (FC). tacipitzahui. it becomes constricted (FC). tamalpitzahuac. narrow tamale (FC). telpochtepitzin. small youth (FC). teltepitz. paletilla del estomago o pecho (71m1); paletilla de la boca del estomago (71m2). tempipitzo, mo- . chupdor tal (71m1). tempipitzoa, nino- . chuparse los labrios o relamerse (71m1). tempipitzoa, nino- (oninotempipitzo). relamerse (71m2). tempipitzoliztli, ne- . chupamiento assi (71m1). tempitzactic. narrow-muzzled, having a narrow muzzle (FC). tempitzahua, tla-. they become thin-lipped (FC). tempitzahuac. having a slender bill (FC); having a slender muzzle (FC); having a thin muzzle (FC); thin-muzzled, having a thin muzzle (FC). tempitzaton. having a rather thin snout (FC); having a slender muzzle (FC); having a small, slender muzzle (FC); rather thin-muzzled, having a thin muzzle (FC). tempitzquiquizoa, qui-. it plasters it with its bill (FC). tentepitztic. hard (FC). teocuitlacozcapitzqui. platero que haze joyas (55m, 71m1); platero que haze joyas. &c (71m2). teocuitlapitza, ni-. I cast gold (FC). teocuitlapitzaya. they cast (past) gold (FC). teocuitlapitzcacalli. tienda de platero (55m); tienda de platero, o plateria (71m2). teocuitlapitzcan. plateria (71m2). teocuitlapitzcayotl. casting of gold (FC); craft of casting gold (FC). teocuitlapitzque. gold-workers (FC); goldcasters (FC); goldcasters, goldsmiths (FC); goldsmiths (FC). teocuitlapitzqui. platero (71m2); gold-worker (FC); goldcaster (FC); goldsmith (FC). tepampitzactli. tabique pared (55m, 71m1); pared delgada y estrecha, o tabique (71m2). tepampitzahuac. tabique pared (55m, 71m1); pared delgada y estrecha, o tabique (71m2); thin-walled (FC). tepiton ehuatlepitzaloni. fuelles peque�as (55m, 71m1). tepitzahui. empedernecerse o pararse duro el pan o cosa assi (55m); endurecerse (55m); empedernecerse o pararse duro el pan o cosa assi (71m1); endurecerse (71m1); he becomes firm, hard (FC); it becomes hard (FC); it hardens (FC). tepitzahui . endurecerse el pan (71m1). tepitzahui, - (otepitzauh). endurecerse alguna cosa (71m2). tepitzahui, tla-. it hardens (FC). tepitzalhuia, nic- (onictepitzalhui). endurecer algo a otro (71m2). tepitzalhuia, nicte- . endurecer algo a otro (71m1). tepitzauhticac, tla-. it stands hardening (FC). tepitzauhya, tla-. hardened place (FC). tepitze. O beloved little one (FC); O little one (FC). tepitzhuia, tla-. she becomes firm (FC). tepitzhuiani, tla-. one who is firm (FC). tepitzi. chica cosa (71m1). tepitzilacatzoa, qui-. he wraps it tightly (FC). tepitzililli, tla- . endurecido assi (71m1). tepitzin. a little bit (FC); little one (FC). tepitzin, zan- . poco, nombre adjectiuo (55m, 71m1). tepitzin, ti-. you are little (FC). tepitzin, to-. our little one (FC). tepitzinilli, tla-. something beaten (FC). tepitzintle. o little one (FC). tepitzitzin. a tiny bit (FC). tepitzitzoma, tla-. he sews firmly (FC). tepitzitzquia, nitla- . apretar algo reziamente con el pu�o o con la mano (71m1). tepitzitzquia, nitla- (onitlatepitzitzqui). tener y apretar reziamente alguna cosa conla mano (71m2). tepitzmalina, nitla- . retorcer (55m, 71m1). tepitzmalina, nitla- (onitlatepitzmalin). torcer reziamente alguna soga, cordel, o hilo (71m2). tepitzmalinaliztli, tla- . retorcedura (55m); el acto de torcer reziamente algun cordel, o cosa semejante (71m2). tepitzmana, nitla- . solar echar suelo ala casa (55m); solar, echar suelo ala casa (71m1). tepitzmantli, tla- . suelo sacado a pison (55m, 71m1); suelo hecho a pison (71m2). tepitzmmalinaliztli, tla- . retorcedura (71m1). tepitznahuatiayaya, quin-. they commanded them sternly (FC). tepitznahuatil, mo-. your stern commandment (FC). tepitznahuatiloya, te-. there was strong commanding of people (FC). tepitzoa, nitla- . endurecer algo (55m, 71m1). tepitzoa, nitla- (onitlatepitzo). endurecer alguna cosa (71m2). tepitzoliztli, tla- . hinchimiento assi (55m, 71m1); el acto de recalcar y apretar fuertemente alguna cosa (71m2). tepitzolli, tla- . endurecido assi (55m, 71m1); cosa recalcada assi (71m2). tepitzpatic. very hard (FC). tepitztia. endurecerse (55m, 71m1). tepitztia, - (otepitztiac). endurecerse, o empedernecerse algo (71m2). tepitztic. dura cosa generalmente (55m); empedernido assi (55m); dura cosa generalmente (71m1); empedernido desta manera (71m1); cosa dura (71m2); hard (FC); hard, firm (FC). tepitztilia, nitla- . endurecer algo (55m, 71m1). tepitztilia, nitla- (onitlatepitzilli). endurecer algo (71m2). tepitztililiztli, tla- . endurecimiento tal (55m, 71m1); (71m2). tepitztililli, tla- . endurecido assi (55m); cosa recalcada assi (71m2). tepitztiliztli. dureza assi (55m); fuer�a biua (55m); dureza tal (71m1); fuer�a o dureza (71m1); dureza, o endurecimiento grande (71m2). tepitztlacuactic. dura cosa generalmente (55m, 71m1). tepitztlacuactilia, nitla- . endurecer algo (71m1). tepitztlacuactilia, nitla- (onitlatepitztlacuactili). endurecer mucho alguna cosa (71m2). tepitztlacuactiliztli. dureza assi (55m); dureza tal (71m1). tepitztlacuahuac. cosa muy dura (71m2). tepitztlacuahualiztli. dureza grande, o endurecimiento (71m2). tepitztlalia in tlacualli, mo- . opilarse (71m1). tepitztlalia, nitla- . embutir o recalcar (55m); hinchir recal�ado (55m); embutir o recalar (71m1); hinchir recalacando (71m1). tepitztlalia, nitla- (onitlatepitztlali). recalcar, o apretar mucho alguna cosa (71m2). tepitztlalia, mo-. he sits down firmly, fast (FC). tepitztlaliaya, qui-. they pressed it together hard (FC). tepitztlalilli, tla- . embutido (55m, 71m1); (71m2). tepitztlalilli, tla-. something packed (FC). tepitztzitzquia, nitla- . apretar mucho alguna cosa (55m). tepitzyollo, mo-. the hardness of your heart (FC). tepitzzo, tla-. he makes a firm stitch (FC); he stitches something firmly (FC). tepitzzotl, tla-. tightly stitched (FC). tepozmaccuahuitl yacapitzahuac. estoque (55m, 71m1). tepozpitza. he casts copper (FC). tepozpitza, ni- . derretir metal (71m1). tepozpitza, ni- (onitepozpitz). derretir, o fundir metal (71m2). tepozpitza, ni-. I cast copper (FC). tepozpitzcayotl. casting of copper (FC). tepozpitzque. metal casters (FC). tepozpitzqui. herrero (55m, 71m1); herrero, o fundidor de cobre (71m2); copper caster (FC); coppercaster (FC); coppersmith (FC). tepozquiquizpitzani. trompeta que las ta�e (55m); trompetero o trompeta que las ta�e (71m1); trompetero (71m2). tepoztetzatzapitzaloni. aguijon de hierro o espuela (55m, 71m1); espuela, o aguijon (71m2). tetepitztlacuactiliztli. el acto e endurecer mucho alguna cosa (71m2). tlacopitzachuia, nite- . herir con vara (55m, 71m1). tlacopitzachuia, nite- (onitetlacopitzachui). herir, o azotar a otro con mimbres, o vardascas (71m2). tlacopitzachuiliztli, te- . herida tal (71m1). tlacopitzactli. vara para hostigar (55m, 71m1); mimbre, o vardasca para azotar (71m2). tlacopitzacuiliztli, te- . herida tal (55m). tlacopitzaton. little twig (FC). tlalhuapitzactli. thin nerve (FC). tlalhuapitzahuac. thin nerve (FC). tlalpitza, nitla- . soplar (71m1). tlalpitza, nitla- (onitlatlalpitz). soplar algo muchas vezes, o endiuersas partes (71m2). tlalpitzaliztli, tla- . sopladura (71m1); soplo (71m1); el acto de soplar assi (71m2). tlalpitzalli, tla- . cosa soplada desta manera (71m2). tlalpitzani, tla- . el que sopla assi (71m2). tlalpitzqui, tla- . el que sopla assi (71m2). tlalpitztli, tla- . soplado (71m1); cosa soplada desta manera (71m2). tlaltepitzpan. in hard soil (FC). tlamacazcatepitzitzin. little offering priests (FC); young offering priests (FC). tlanitzpitzahua. shank becomes slender (FC). tlanitzpitzahuaca, to-. slender part of our shank (FC). tlapitza, nitla- (onitlatlapitz). soplar muchas vezes (71m2). tlapitzahua, ni- . cantar delgado o tiple como muger (71m1). tlapitzahua, nitla- (onitlatlapitzauh). reir alto, con gran gasajado y demasiadamente, o cantar con boz delgada ymugeril (71m2). tlapitzahualiztli, tla- . carcajada de risa (55m); risa demasiada (55m, 71m1). tlapitzahuani, tla- . risue�o (55m, 71m1); el que se rie desta manera (71m2). tlapitzalchiuhqui. flautero que las haze (55m, 71m1). tlapitzalizpa, tla-. time for blowing trumpets (FC); time for blowing flutes (FC). tlapitzalizpan, tla-. time for blowing the trumpets (FC); time for blowing of shell trumpets (FC); time for blowing shell trumpets (FC); time of blowing the flutes (FC). tlapitzalizpan, tlah-. time of blowing trumpets (FC). tlapitzaliztli, tla- . el acto de soplar amenudo (71m2). tlapitzaliztli, tla-. act of blowing trumpets (FC). tlapitzalo, tla-. there is blowing of trumpets (FC); there is blowing of conch shells (FC); there is blowing of trumpets (FC). tlapitzaltenzouhcayotl. trompa de trompeta (71m1). tlapitzcan. hundicion el lugar donde hunden (71m1). tlapitzqui, tla- . el que sopla muchas vezes (71m2). [t]lapitztihui, hual-. they go blowing shell trumpets (FC). tlapitztihuitze, tla-. they come blowing [i.e., trumpets] (FC). tlapitztoque, tla-. they each sit blowing shell trumpets (FC). tlatlalpitza, ni- . soplar en diuersas partes (55m, 71m1). tlatlapitza, ni- . soplar (55m). tlatlapitzahua, ni- . reyr demasiado (55m); cantar delgado o tiple como muger (71m1); carcajadas de risa dar (71m1); reyr demasiado (71m1). tlatlapitzahualiztli. carcajadas de risa (71m1). tlatlapitzaliztli. sopladura (55m); soplo (55m). tlatlapitztli. soplado (55m). tlatzatzapitzaliztli. espolada (55m). tlaxcalcuappitztli. dry tortilla (FC). tlaxochpitzactli. trena o tren�a (55m); trenza (71m2). tlepitza. he blows the fire (FC); it blows the fire (FC). tlepitza, ni- . encender huego (71m1). tlepitza, ni- (onitlepitz). soplar el fuego paraque arda (71m2). tlepitzhuatz, te- . dolor de algun golpe enla carne, que escueze mucho, y haze afligir y encoger al que le recibio (71m2). tletlepitzhuatza, nite- (onitetletlepitzhuatz). hazer a otro ronchas o se�ales de cardenales, con los azotes o palos que le di (71m2). tolpitzahuac. slender reed (FC); thin reed (FC). tomapitzahuac. thin tomato (FC). tomapitzictli. bruised tomato (FC). tompitzoa, mo-. it gushes (FC); it springs up (FC); water is tossed up (FC). tompitzoani, mo-. it gushes (FC). tompitzquehua, nino- . al�arse en alto el agua o culebra o cosa assi (55m); al�arse en alto el agua o la culebra (71m1). tompitzquehua, nino- (oninotompitzqueuh). alzarse enalto el agua dela fuente a borbollones, o la culebra, que alza el cuello abalanzandose, o yendo corriendo (71m2). tompitzquetza, nino- . al�arse en alto el agua o culebra o cosa assi (55m); al�arse en alto el agua o la culebra (71m1). tompitzquetza, nino- (oninotompitzquetz). alzarse enalto el agua dela fuente a borbollones o la culebra, que alza el cuello abalanzandose, o yendo corriendo (71m2). tonalpitzahuatoc. he lies thinned by the heat (FC). topitzahuaya. cintura (55m). topitzahuayan. cintura (71m1). topitzin. lagartija (55m, 71m1). tototlapitza, ni- (onitototlapitz). hazer reclamo para tomar paxaros (71m2). tototlapitzaliztli. reclamo para aues (55m, 71m1); reclamo, para cazar paxaros (71m2). tototlapitzqui. paxaro ca�ador de aues (55m); paxaro, ca�ador de aues (71m1); cazador de paxaros con reclamo (71m2). tzatzapitza, nitla- . espolear herir conella (55m, 71m1). tzatzapitza, nitla- (onitlatzatzapitz). punzar, picar o dar de espoladas al cauallo (71m2). tzatzapitzaliztli, tla- . espolada (71m1); espoladas, punzadas o aguijones (71m2). tzimpitzahuac. figura ahusada hazia baxo y ancha arriba (55m, 71m1); cosa figurada, ahusada haziabaxo (71m2); having a slender abdomen (FC); long and thin at the root (FC); narrow at the base (FC); narrow at the bottom (FC); slender at the base (FC); slender at the bottom (FC); slender on the end (FC); slender-tailed, having a slender tail (FC); tapering toward the bottom (FC); thin at the base (FC). tzimpitzatoton. having a small slender base (FC). tzintepitz, to-. our ischial tuberosity (FC). tzintepitztli. ischial tuberosity (FC); rump bone (FC). tzotzopitza, te-. they stab people (FC). tzotzopitza, tla-. he provides holes (i.e., for plants) (FC). tzotzopitzalo, te-. there is repeated spearing of people (FC). xalpitza, ni-. I blow sand (FC). xalpitzactic. like fine sand (FC). xalpitzahuac. fine sand (FC). xalpitzahuacayo. having fine sand (FC). xochpitzacti, tla- . trena o tren�a (71m1). xocpalpitzahuaca, to-. our arch (FC). xopipitzac. thin-legged (FC). xopitzac. thin-legged (FC). xopitzactic. having slender legs (FC). xopitzactli. �anca (55m, 71m1, 71m2). xopitzahua. the leg becomes slender (FC). xopitzahuaca, to-. slender part of our leg (FC). yacapitzactic. ahusada cosa (71m1). yacapitzahua. they become pointed at the end (FC). yacapitzahua, nitla- . ahusar algo (71m1). yacapitzahua, nitla- (onitlayacapitzauh). ahusar punta de algo (71m2). yacapitzahua, qui-. he takes the lead (FC). yacapitzahuac. ahusada cosa (71m1); cosa ahusada (71m2); eared grebe (FC); slender at the end (FC); tapering, sharp-tipped (FC). yacapitzahuaca, to-. thin part of our nose (FC). yacapitzahualiztli, tla- . ahusadura (71m1). yacapitzahuani, tla- . ahusador (71m1). yeltepitz. pecuga de aue (55m); pechuga de aue (71m2). yollo tepitztic. grande de cora�on (55m, 71m1); magnanimo (71m1). yollo tepitztiliani, mo- . sufrido y paciente (71m2). yollopitzahuac. having a slender center (FC). yollotepitzhuiliztli, tla- . paciencia (55m, 71m1); paciencia, o sufrimiento varonil y esforzado (71m2). yollotepitzilia, nino- . paciencia tener (71m1). yollotepitztic. endurecido assi o pertinaz (55m); magnanimo (55m); endurecido assi, o pertinaz (71m1); esforzado y animoso (71m2); courageous, brave (FC). yollotepitztic . pertinaz (71m1). yollotepitztilia, nino- . paciencia tener (55m). yollotepitztilia, nino- (oninoyollo tepitztili). animarse, yesforzarse (71m2). yollotepitztiliani, mo- . paciente (55m). yollotepitztiliztica, ne- . pacientemente (55m). yollotepitztiliztli. grandeza de cora�on (55m, 71m1). yollotepitztlacuactia, ni- (oniyollo tepitztlacuactiac). endurecerse y obstinarse (71m2). yollotepitztlacuactiliztli. endurecimiento assi (71m2). yopitzon, i-. his yopi crown (FC). From mclssaa2 at fs2.mt.umist.ac.uk Tue May 8 08:15:49 2001 From: mclssaa2 at fs2.mt.umist.ac.uk (Anthony Appleyard) Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 08:15:49 GMT Subject: No subject Message-ID: "r. joe campbell" wrote (Re: Ahuachpitzactzin):- > These are the occurrences of 'pitz' from the Florentine Codex and from > Molina's three dictionaries. The occurrences of 'pitz' in the FC that > are still unglossed are not included. Molina's glosses are given in his > original Spanish. > Joe > acapitzac, i-. his reed stalk (FC). > acapitzactla. carrizal (55m, 71m1, 71m2). ... ... etc etc over a hundred more lines. If these lines are extracted from an online copy of Molina's dictionary, and/or from some other big online Nahuatl to English and/or Spanish dictionary, please what is its WWW address? Molina online would be just the timng that a lot of us would want!!! From campbel at indiana.edu Tue May 8 18:50:34 2001 From: campbel at indiana.edu (r. joe campbell) Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 13:50:34 -0500 Subject: Molina and FC Vocabulary In-Reply-To: <200105081423.f48ENfv10645@server2.umt.edu> Message-ID: Anthony, The vocabulary I sent didn't come from an online resource. I extracted them from a database which contains, among other things: Molina, Spanish-Nahuatl (1555) Molina, Spanish-Nahuatl (1571) Molina, Nahuatl-Spanish (1571) Florentine Codex My wife (Mary Clayton) and I are preparing an integrated version of Molina and I am working towards 1) an English translation of the vocabulary of the Florentine Codex, and 2) a merged vocabulary covering both Molina and the FC. The process of adding the English glosses and doing the morphology for each Nahuatl word grinds on, but we are hoping that the end is not too far away. Of course, "far" is relative -- I started the preparation of the first section of the Molina database in 1970. Best regards, Joe On Tue, 8 May 2001, Anthony Appleyard wrote: > > acapitzac, i-. his reed stalk (FC). > > acapitzactla. carrizal (55m, 71m1, 71m2). ... > > ... etc etc over a hundred more lines. If these lines are extracted from an > online copy of Molina's dictionary, and/or from some other big online Nahuatl > to English and/or Spanish dictionary, please what is its WWW address? Molina > online would be just the timng that a lot of us would want!!! From Amapohuani at aol.com Tue May 8 19:13:32 2001 From: Amapohuani at aol.com (Amapohuani at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 15:13:32 EDT Subject: Molina and FC Vocabulary Message-ID: In a message dated 5/8/01 11:55:13 AM, campbel at indiana.edu writes: << My wife (Mary Clayton) and I are preparing an integrated version of Molina and I am working towards 1) an English translation of the vocabulary of the Florentine Codex, and 2) a merged vocabulary covering both Molina and the FC. The process of adding the English glosses and doing the morphology for each Nahuatl word grinds on, but we are hoping that the end is not too far away. Of course, "far" is relative -- I started the preparation of the first section of the Molina database in 1970. >> Joe: I will be ready to buy when it is published. Ye ixquich. Barry D. Sell From davius_sanctex at terra.es Tue May 8 12:10:08 2001 From: davius_sanctex at terra.es (David Sanchez) Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 14:10:08 +0200 Subject: Ingestion of human meat among aztecs Message-ID: According to recommendation of the FAO, a healthy diet requires a minimum of ingested meat, FAO estimates this minimum around 35g per day and person. One of the deficiencies of Mexico Valley was scarcity of animal meat providing a substantial number of proteins. The aztecs had domestic turkeys (huehxolonacatl), ducks and dogs (chichimeh) that provided some animal protein, wild fauna mainly provided American deer (maza:tl). But it has been calculated that this contribution were around 5 or 10g per day and person. My own calculations show that human sacrifices could provide exactly the necessary animal protein. The population of Tenochtitlan in early XVIth century was of 150000 or 200000 inhabitants; the number of human sacrifices was 15000 or perhaps 20000 in a year; according to physical characteristics of Mesoamericans I estimate the mean weight is around 65 kg (only a 70% or less of a person is edible): 15000person x 65000g/person x 0,70 / (365 x 150000 inhab) = 17 g Thus almost surely the quantity of human meat was between 13g and 22g per person and day. If we add 5 or 10g of domestic animal and wild animals we have that the total ingestion of animal protein was around 25 or 30g. This shows that no way human sacrifices were a barbarous and unnecessary practice, in fact the number of sacrifices was a number that provides a reasonably number of protein, this reveals a great practical and ecological wisdom. In my opinion, these facts are confirmed by historical facts like that of the great starvation of 1452. Finally Mesoamerican states decided to perform a "flowered war" (xo:chiya:o:tl), aside religious justifications ("gods must be nourished" or "drought is caused by the discontent of gods that are also hungry"), this xochiyaotl had two practical consequences: 1) The number of hungry persons reduced (a lot of them, would be sacrificed!) 2) The availability of protein increased greatly with the sacrifices. Perhaps the word 'suet, grease' was some type of metaphor relating "xochiyaotl" and the ingestion of meat. David Sánchez Universitat Politècnica de C. From schwallr at selway.umt.edu Tue May 8 20:11:06 2001 From: schwallr at selway.umt.edu (John F. Schwaller) Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 14:11:06 -0600 Subject: Molina and FC Vocabulary In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I can vouch for that, having been among the first crop, or so, of graduate students to work on these glossaries. I still have my notes from glossing the Molina. The real problem was the work study student who entered much of the data couldn't read the 16th century typeface, so most of the intervocalic 's' came out as 'f' Now look at me! Old and withered beyond my time all because of Nahuatl! At 01:50 PM 5/8/01 -0500, you wrote: > Of course, "far" is relative -- I >started the preparation of the first section of the Molina database in >1970. > >Best regards, > >Joe > John Frederick Schwaller schwallr at selway.umt.edu Associate Provost 406-243-4722 The University of Montana FAX 406-243-5937 http://www.umt.edu/provost/ From campbel at indiana.edu Tue May 8 20:33:22 2001 From: campbel at indiana.edu (r. joe campbell) Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 15:33:22 -0500 Subject: Molina and FC Vocabulary In-Reply-To: <13.155ee66d.28299f5c@aol.com> Message-ID: Thanks, Barry! We will put a virtual copy away for you right now. >8-) Joe > > I will be ready to buy when it is published. > > Ye ixquich. > Barry D. Sell > > From tenoch at pacbell.net Wed May 9 01:33:52 2001 From: tenoch at pacbell.net (Mexica Movement) Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 18:33:52 -0700 Subject: Ingestion of human meat among aztecs Message-ID: What non sense it this? Humans don't even need meat to have a healthy diet if enough protein is available. The Mexica adequately had more than enough, mixing corn mostly in tortillas and beans. The amino acids in both foods respectively combines to form a complete protein. Algae which grew in the Lake was pounded into "cakes" and provide proteing as well. Amaranth a lesser known grain, was also used extensively by the Mexica, and today it is known that this grain is superior for its protein content to other plant foods. Turkeys and dogs were also domesticated and provide other avenues of protein. Human sacrifice and ritual canabalism are not related to any phenomena that involves protein difficiency. These rites were important aspects of the theology and cosmology of the Mexica and other people of Anahuac. Itzcoatl Mexica Movement From mclssaa2 at fs2.mt.umist.ac.uk Wed May 9 08:46:44 2001 From: mclssaa2 at fs2.mt.umist.ac.uk (Anthony Appleyard) Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 08:46:44 GMT Subject: Molina and FC Vocabulary Message-ID: "r. joe campbell" wrote:- > My wife (Mary Clayton) and I are preparing an integrated version of > Molina and I am working towards 1) an English translation of the > vocabulary of the Florentine Codex, and 2) a merged vocabulary covering > both Molina and the FC. ... Thank you for your many efforts with all this work. Is there any possible idea when it will be ready? Will all the entries have English translations? For English-speakers, having to learn Spanish to be able to understand Molina is more work on top of learning Nahuatl. In Britain, Spanish is not much taught as a school subject. Will it be on paper or on a web page or on a CD-ROM or what? Will the Nahuatl spelling be standardized, e.g. marking vowel length and glottal stops? > The vocabulary ... I extracted them from a database ... Please who supplies that database? Citlalyani From dfrye at umich.edu Wed May 9 15:33:50 2001 From: dfrye at umich.edu (David L. Frye) Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 11:33:50 -0400 Subject: Ingestion of human meat among aztecs In-Reply-To: <000201c0d7f9$fb743760$1c0a523e@pc> Message-ID: This again? I thought this idea had been laid to rest years ago. There is NO "minimum" requirement for "animal" protein, and indeed no difference among amino acids no matter what their source. People can and do live long and healthy lives without ever having a taste of meat of any sort. Ask some of your vegan friends (you have some, even if you don't know it). My apologies to the list for replying at all. I hope this thread is cut soon. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ David Frye Latin American and Caribbean Studies Program Associate 2607 International Institute Bldg dfrye at umich.edu 1080 South University tel (734) 763-0553 Ann Arbor, MI 48109-1106 fax (734) 615-8880 http://www.umich.edu/~iinet/lacs/ From campbel at indiana.edu Wed May 9 16:55:38 2001 From: campbel at indiana.edu (r. joe campbell) Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 11:55:38 -0500 Subject: Molina and FC Vocabulary In-Reply-To: <200105091441.f49Efo525879@server2.umt.edu> Message-ID: Anthony, > Is there any possible idea when it will be ready? I wish it were possible to make an accurate estimate. On the Florentine side, the morphology is about 60.2% finished and the English glossing is about 59.85% finished. The percentages refer to the number of word *tokens*, so this is rosier than it looks on the surface (considering the fact that 'in' occurs over 30,000 times in the residue [out of the original set of 247,000+ tokens]). But the reason for a lot of words being in the current residue set is that they present some difficulties, so progress is uneven. The remaining work on Molina will be faster, but it's still impossible to make an accurate time estimate. > Will all the entries have English translations? On the Florentine, yes; on Molina, probably. Actually, since I did the English translation of the Nahuatl-Spanish 1571 in the mid 1970's, the answer is *very* probably. > Will it be on paper or on a web page or on a CD-ROM or what? Because of the size of the material and the relatively small size of the audience, I doubt that any publisher would see it as a feasible paper publication, CD-ROM seems like the most promising medium. > Will the Nahuatl spelling be standardized, e.g. marking vowel length and > glottal stops? The Nahuatl spelling will be regularized (e.g., no variability in 'u' and 'o', no 'v' for 'u' [therefore 'o' also], spelling of /w/, etc.), but it is not likely that each word type will be spelled with vowel length and glottal stops. However, that information will be supplied with the accompanying morphological information. Obviously, it would have been impossible to supply the vowel length and glottal detail without the invaluable reference of Fran Karttunen's dictionary. > > The vocabulary ... I extracted them from a database ... > Please who supplies that database? I wish there had been a supplier for the database. It has been constructed through a combination of work-study hours, my own key-punching (on Hollerith cards) and keying, that of my wife, professional key-punching hours in a university computing center, and optical scanning. The Nahuatl part of the Florentine, I owe to collaboration with a good friend who did well over half of the work (with super-human accuracy and energy). As I mentioned before, it was started in 1970 (with the initial work on Molina, Nahuatl-Spanish, 1571) and other sections were added later. Best regards, Joe From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Wed May 9 17:07:27 2001 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael Mccafferty) Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 12:07:27 -0500 Subject: Molina et al. Message-ID: There was no experience in school more enjoyable than plowing through Molina with Joe. Now, he did a Carochi dictionary if you're biting at the bit. Am I right about that? University of Wisconsin Press, I believe. BTW, is Thelma Sullivan's _Compendio de la Grammatica Nahuatl_ in print either in english or in spanish? It's a great book for all the classical texts at the end that give examples of the grammar. Michael McCafferty From swood at darkwing.uoregon.edu Wed May 9 19:37:50 2001 From: swood at darkwing.uoregon.edu (Stephanie Wood) Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 12:37:50 -0700 Subject: numbers of Nahuatl speakers? Message-ID: Does anyone have information from the 2000 Mexican census about the numbers of indigenous language speakers? Linda King published a table showing 1,197,328 speakers of Nahuatl in Mexico according to the 1990 census. Her table shows the numbers of speakers of other native languages, too, such as Maya, Mixtec, Zapotec, etc. This was published this in her book, Roots of Identity: Language & Literacy in Mexico (1994, p. 88). This is a great table, but I would love to have more recent figures, as soon as they are available. Thanks for any help anyone can lend! Stephanie Wood Department of History University of Oregon swood at darkwing.uoregon.edu From juergen.stowasser at univie.ac.at Wed May 9 21:04:33 2001 From: juergen.stowasser at univie.ac.at (Juergen Stowasser) Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 23:04:33 +0200 Subject: numbers of Nahuatl speakers? Message-ID: I know only the data of the 1995 census (1,623,993 speakers of Nahuatl); for the whole table of the different indigenous languages see http://sedesol.sedesol.gob.mx/perfiles/nacional/english/05_demography.html best Juergen Stephanie Wood schrieb: > Does anyone have information from the 2000 Mexican census about the numbers > of indigenous language speakers? Linda King published a table showing > 1,197,328 speakers of Nahuatl in Mexico according to the 1990 census. Her > table shows the numbers of speakers of other native languages, too, such as > Maya, Mixtec, Zapotec, etc. This was published this in her book, Roots of > Identity: Language & Literacy in Mexico (1994, p. 88). This is a great > table, but I would love to have more recent figures, as soon as they are > available. Thanks for any help anyone can lend! > > Stephanie Wood > Department of History > University of Oregon > swood at darkwing.uoregon.edu -- Juergen Stowasser Burggasse 114/2/8 A-1070 Wien - Vien(n)a Austria tel: 01/ 524 54 60 v 0676/ 398 66 79 http://www.univie.ac.at/meso From lesbre at univ-tlse2.fr Wed May 9 15:42:23 2001 From: lesbre at univ-tlse2.fr (Patrick LESBRE) Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 17:42:23 +0200 Subject: Ingestion of human meat among aztecs Message-ID: Estimado David, Sus calculos tienen un defecto basico : las estimaciones anuales para sacrificios humanos en Mexico no pueden alcanzar 15000 o 20 000 personas : tiene que quitarles por lo minimo un cero. El estreno del nuevo Templo Mayor por Ahuizotl en 1487 con unas 20 000 victimas segun el codice Telleriano-Remensis fue un acontecimiento excepcional, en ningun caso algo anual. Otras fuentes hablan mas bien de un promedio anual de unas 1500 personas para MexicoTenochtitlan y 300 para Tezcoco. Atentamente Patrick LESBRE Universit� de Toulouse II 5 all�es Antonio Machado 31058 TOULOUSE tel/ fax : 05 61 14 26 99 courriel : lesbre at univ-tlse2.fr rpg7 jtf-6 From dakin at servidor.unam.mx Wed May 9 18:08:13 2001 From: dakin at servidor.unam.mx (Karen Dakin) Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 13:08:13 -0500 Subject: Molina et al. Message-ID: on 5/9/01 12:07 PM, Michael Mccafferty at mmccaffe at indiana.edu wrote: > > There was no experience in school more enjoyable than plowing through > Molina with Joe. > > Now, he did a Carochi dictionary if you're biting at the bit. Am I right > about that? University of Wisconsin Press, I believe. > > BTW, is Thelma Sullivan's _Compendio de la Grammatica Nahuatl_ in print > either in english or in spanish? It's a great book for all the classical > texts at the end that give examples of the grammar. > > > Michael McCafferty > > I think at least the English edition of the Compendio is still in print (Univ. of Utah), and should note that the principal function I had as a coeditor of the translation was to check the Nahuatl examples with the original sources, since Thelma at times had not been entirely consistent, sometimes regularizing and sometimes not, so the examples in the English edition are more true to the originals (and any errors would be mine after that). Also a note for those interested that her decision about the English version was that vowel length should be marked only in the section on phonology, and in other sections only in examples in which it was marked originally, for instance, those from Carochi, given the fact that sometimes there just wasn't any source to verify what it should be. Glottal stops were marked in the grammar, but not in examples unless present in originals. We tried to finish the editing after her death by following her wishes as much as possible From rude at stanford.edu Wed May 9 19:16:46 2001 From: rude at stanford.edu (Rudiger V. Busto) Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 12:16:46 -0700 Subject: Molina et al. Message-ID: As long as we are praising R. Joe Campbell, I have found his _A Morphological Dictionary of Classical Nahuatl: A Morpheme Index to the Vocabulario en lengua mexicana y castellana of Fray Alonso de Molina_ (Madison: Hispanic Seminary of Medieval Studies, 1985) to be extremely valuable and easy to navigate. >There was no experience in school more enjoyable than plowing through >Molina with Joe. > >Now, he did a Carochi dictionary if you're biting at the bit. Am I right >about that? University of Wisconsin Press, I believe. > >BTW, is Thelma Sullivan's _Compendio de la Grammatica Nahuatl_ in print >either in english or in spanish? It's a great book for all the classical >texts at the end that give examples of the grammar. > > >Michael McCafferty -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Rudy V. Busto rude at stanford.edu Assistant Professor 650.723.0465 (office) Religious Studies 650.725.1476 (fax) Stanford University Stanford, CA 94305-2165 "...who knows what the ostrich sees in the sand ? " --- Samuel Beckett From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx Wed May 9 23:24:53 2001 From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright) Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 17:24:53 -0600 Subject: numbers of Nahuatl speakers? Message-ID: Hola, Stephanie. The Instituto Nacional de Estadistica, Geografia e Informatica published very detailed data from the 1990 census in Hablantes de lengua indigena, XI censo general de poblacion y vivienda, 1990 (Mexico, INEGI, 1993). It's still available at INEGI bookstores throughout Mexico; I bought one a couple of months ago. If last decade's work is any indication, we won't be seeing a similar publication from 2000 census data for another couple of years. Preliminary results from the 2000 census are available on line, but native language data isn't included. See http://www.inegi.gob.mx/. De: Stephanie Wood [...] > Does anyone have information from the 2000 Mexican census about the numbers > of indigenous language speakers? Linda King published a table showing > 1,197,328 speakers of Nahuatl in Mexico according to the 1990 census. Her > table shows the numbers of speakers of other native languages, too, such as > Maya, Mixtec, Zapotec, etc. This was published this in her book, Roots of > Identity: Language & Literacy in Mexico (1994, p. 88). This is a great > table, but I would love to have more recent figures, as soon as they are > available. Thanks for any help anyone can lend! From davius_sanctex at terra.es Wed May 9 23:39:41 2001 From: davius_sanctex at terra.es (David Sanchez) Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 01:39:41 +0200 Subject: Ingestion of human meat among aztecs Message-ID: Dear Itzcoatl: I think we have crashed with a extremely "euro-american" taboo. I'm an inconditional admirer and lover of Ancient Mesoamerican civilization and of its achievements and wisdomful civilized practices. But scientific studies of hypotheses must be free from political or culture prejudices of the investigators. > What non sense it this? Why a non-sense? It is only an hypothesis, no one has claimed it is a conclusive fact. Michael Harner (1977) appointed this hypothesis, and althought it has been criticized, it is the best explanation of the ritualization of cannibalism, in terms of anthropological infrastructure. Ingestion of the bodies of enemies is a common in many non-state cultures. But state civilizations generally regard more useful slavery and other forms of submission that imply exploitation of manpower of defeated enemies. Only in situations where the cannibalism take advantage is maintained. In general modern anthropologist tend to explain facts about the structure (organization that regulates exchange of goods, work and information) and superstructures (behaviour concerning religious, artistic, entertainment and intellectual facts) in terms of infrastructure (technologies, available resources, environmental constrictions). This view has been named by some anthropologists, "cultural materialism". There is a strong evidence supporting this view. A great number of differences among cultures have been explained very satisfactorily in terms of infrastructure. For example, pigs are a very important foodstuff among New Guineans and consequently in their religious believes pigs are important. On the other hand, pigs were relatively insignificant for south-arabic peoples and Islam in fact forbids the ingestion of pork (this couldn't have been successful in New Guinea!) >Humans don't even need meat to have a healthy diet if enough protein is >available. But in fact, human tend to desire animal proteins, because it is a more rich and concentrate source of proteins. Cultures like that of the yanomamo (Amazonian forest) shows that although they can be nourished only with vegetable foods (mainly bananas), they declare war on their enemies for a better access to animal meat. > Human sacrifice and ritual canabalism are not related to any phenomena > that involves protein difficiency. Theology and cosmology as "cultural materialism" demonstrates is extremely dependent of environmental and infra-structural factors! Best wishes, for your Mexica Movement! David Sanchez UNIVERSITAT POLITÈCNICA DE CATALUNYA C/ Jordi Girona, 13 08034 Barcelona From War14655 at aol.com Thu May 10 00:11:22 2001 From: War14655 at aol.com (War14655 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 20:11:22 EDT Subject: Ingestion of human meat among aztecs Message-ID: Dear Dave: That's the key word, "desire." There is no need for animal protein, only desire. Have you ever considered the fact that when Tenochtitlan's citizens were being seized upon by the enemy, having the water and food supply cut off for over 70 days, that even during a terrible crisis like the spanish siege, the citizens of Tenochtitlan, staring death in the face, STILL had no "desire" to indulge upon human flesh even when the practice of human cannablism could have been justified considering the circumstance, for example the Donner party? So much for your hypothesis... Sincerely, Ahuitzotl -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cristi at ix.netcom.com Thu May 10 01:16:48 2001 From: cristi at ix.netcom.com (cristi at ix.netcom.com) Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 19:16:48 -0600 Subject: Ingestion of human meat among aztecs In-Reply-To: <002901c0d8e1$52670ba0$dc06523e@pc> Message-ID: > I think we have crashed with a extremely "euro-american" taboo. Taboos had nothing to do with Itzcoatl's reply. Common sense and fact were all he presented. > > What non sense it this? > Why a non-sense? It is only an hypothesis, no one has claimed it is a > conclusive fact. Yes, but as a scientist, I can tell you that many hypotheses are nonsense, just as this particular hypothesis is nonsense. It's utterly ridiculous, both from the standpoint of human nutrition and existing cultural histories. It is the product of an ethnocentric European mind with too little imagination. Finally, it is utterly inappropriate for this forum. Can we end this here, and get back to the forum's purpose? Cristi From War14655 at aol.com Thu May 10 01:36:11 2001 From: War14655 at aol.com (War14655 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 21:36:11 EDT Subject: Ingestion of human meat among aztecs Message-ID: Niltze Cristi: Ica melahuac motlatoltin cenca cuacualtzin. I agree with Cristi; let's focus back onto the forum and forget about this inappropriate discussion. Ahuitzotl -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mdmorris at indiana.edu Thu May 10 18:39:24 2001 From: mdmorris at indiana.edu (Mark David Morris) Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 13:39:24 -0500 Subject: Molina and FC Vocabulary In-Reply-To: Message-ID: List, R. Joe Campbell has suffered me saying this for several years, so I will dare to express my opinion publicly well aware that I know little of what I speak. I too have been eager to see Joe's finished Florentine Codice morphological study, a study that Angel Garibay urged when he first published his LLave del Nahuatl and critical edition of Las Cosas de la Nueva Espana. In fact, I would put Joe's work as an international priority for Nahuatl studies and I hope that he is able to find the help and resources he needs to finish it. Second, Joe and many others of his generation, by my understanding, were the first generation of linguists to extensively use computer, and Joe was certainly a pioneer, carrying a trailer truck full of punch cards for the Molina dictionary when he moved to Bloomington, Indiana. I know the Wenner-Gren (sp?) foundation has grants available for the preservation of scholars' anthropological materials. I think it would be a strong benefit to future generations if all this unpublished information that people like Joe Campbell, Fran Kartunnen etc. etc. have on cumputer were not lost but were collected in a central place where it could be used by future generations. On another subject, a guy from Tetlanohcan, Tlaxcala mentioned that pulque is called "white face," which I assume has some relation with Mayahuel. Would anyone like to expatiate on the symbolic relation between "white face" and pulque? Happy Mothers' Day y'all, Mark Morris ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ La muerte tiene permiso a todo MDM, PhD Candidate Dept. of History, Indiana Univ. From owner-nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu Fri May 11 03:02:00 2001 From: owner-nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu (owner-nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu) Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 21:02:00 -0600 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Dear list members Sender: owner-nahuat-l at majordomo.umt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nahuat-l at majordomo.umt.edu Every year or so we become embroiled in a debate over human sacrifice among the Nahua. Thes disucssions engender much heat and very littl light. Consequently, as list owner, I implore you to sease this discussion. If you wish to carry it on among yourselves, outside of the discussion list, please do so. But please let's stop now. Thanks you, J. F. Schwaller List owner From mikegaby at hotmail.com Sat May 12 06:22:44 2001 From: mikegaby at hotmail.com (mike gaby) Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 06:22:44 -0000 Subject: Molina and FC Vocabulary Message-ID: Joe, You may find there are more interested parties out there than you realize. I too, look forward to the completion of this work. You'll be sure to alert the list when ready, for those who observe quietly. Mike Gaby >From: "r. joe campbell" >Reply-To: nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu >To: nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu >Subject: Re: Molina and FC Vocabulary >Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 11:55:38 -0500 (EST) > >Anthony, > > > Is there any possible idea when it will be ready? > > I wish it were possible to make an accurate estimate. On the Florentine >side, the morphology is about 60.2% finished and the English glossing is >about 59.85% finished. The percentages refer to the number of word >*tokens*, so this is rosier than it looks on the surface (considering the >fact that 'in' occurs over 30,000 times in the residue [out of the >original set of 247,000+ tokens]). But the reason for a lot of words >being in the current residue set is that they present some difficulties, >so progress is uneven. > > The remaining work on Molina will be faster, but it's still impossible >to make an accurate time estimate. > > > Will all the entries have English translations? > > On the Florentine, yes; on Molina, probably. Actually, since I did the >English translation of the Nahuatl-Spanish 1571 in the mid 1970's, the >answer is *very* probably. > > > > > > > Will it be on paper or on a web page or on a CD-ROM or what? > > > Because of the size of the material and the relatively small size of >the audience, I doubt that any publisher would see it as a feasible paper >publication, CD-ROM seems like the most promising medium. > > > > Will the Nahuatl spelling be standardized, e.g. marking vowel length and > > glottal stops? > > The Nahuatl spelling will be regularized (e.g., no variability in 'u' >and 'o', no 'v' for 'u' [therefore 'o' also], spelling of /w/, etc.), but >it is not likely that each word type will be spelled with vowel length and >glottal stops. However, that information will be supplied with the >accompanying morphological information. Obviously, it would have been >impossible to supply the vowel length and glottal detail without the >invaluable reference of Fran Karttunen's dictionary. > > > > > The vocabulary ... I extracted them from a database ... > > Please who supplies that database? > > I wish there had been a supplier for the database. It has been >constructed through a combination of work-study hours, my own key-punching >(on Hollerith cards) and keying, that of my wife, professional >key-punching hours in a university computing center, and optical scanning. >The Nahuatl part of the Florentine, I owe to collaboration with a good >friend who did well over half of the work (with super-human accuracy and >energy). As I mentioned before, it was started in 1970 (with the initial >work on Molina, Nahuatl-Spanish, 1571) and other sections were added >later. > >Best regards, > >Joe > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From mdmorris at indiana.edu Sat May 12 19:29:46 2001 From: mdmorris at indiana.edu (Mark David Morris) Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 14:29:46 -0500 Subject: numbers of Nahuatl speakers? In-Reply-To: <002d01c0d8bf$891546c0$6ed1df80@uoregon.edu> Message-ID: Stephanie et al, I went by the regional Tlaxcala office of INEGI yesterday. They do not yet have detailed descriptions of speakers of indigenous languages for the 200 census, but expect to have them in a few months. What they have are numbers of speakers, by male-female and by population size. The total number of speakers of indigenous languages increased from 5,483,555 to 6,274,418. One factor in the increase other than natural population increase might be a higher incidence of reporting. The 1995 census records 26,886 Nahuatl speakers in Tlaxcala, and if you know the region you will note that that figure is probably low by at least 10,000, probably resulting from people not wanting to admit that they speak an indigenous language. best, Mark Morris P.S. Class note for this week: To distinguish -tia from -huia xochitia - make one to have flowers xochihuia - make on have flowers inside, i.e bewitch other examples: nimotezcahuia, I look in the mirror nicxelhuahuizhuia in metatl, I scrub-sweep the metate ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ La muerte tiene permiso a todo MDM, PhD Candidate Dept. of History, Indiana Univ. From davius_sanctex at terra.es Tue May 15 21:40:27 2001 From: davius_sanctex at terra.es (David Sanchez) Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 23:40:27 +0200 Subject: Teyocoyani Message-ID: I have not found the verbal stem from which we have . Is perhaps this form some variant of : I found in a poem of Nezahualcoyotl: ... Mach i:lihuiztia:, ne:mia te:hui:c, TEYACONI? The mean of expression "nemia tehuic" is nearly that of teyocoyani ... ? David Sánchez Universitat Politècnica de Catalunya From santo at cua.edu Wed May 16 17:24:16 2001 From: santo at cua.edu (Santo, Joseph A.) Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 13:24:16 -0400 Subject: request for assistance Message-ID: I am writing from the School of Music of The Catholic University of America, Washington, D.C. I am a composer, and I am attempting to confirm the accuracy of a short text (for musical purposes), which I believe to be in nahuatl. I found the text on an internet site, and it is supposed to be a translation of the "Ave, María." Since I am interested particularly in the second half of the prayer, I am copying only that part here: ...Santa Mariaè, Dios Inantzinè, ma topan ximotlâtolti in titlâtlacoanime in axcan, ihuan inîquac yê tomiquiztempan. Ma yuh mochihua. This is supposed to translate: "Santa María, Madre de Dios, ruega por nosotros pecadores ahora y en la hora de nuestra muerte. Amén." I am trying to ascertain (a) whether it is indeed in correct nahuatl; (b) the accuracy of the nahuatl translation; (c) how or if the circumflex on some of the vowels changes the pronunciation of that vowel or accentuation of the word, e.g. â, î, ê; and (d) what is the effect on pronunciation/stress of the final grave e (Mariaè, Inantzinè), which looks like a vocative. I understand that stress is on the second to the last syllable in nahuatl, though I am not aware if there are any exceptions. I would be most grateful for any assistance anyone might be able to offer regarding this short text. Sincerely, Dr. Joseph Santo Benjamin T. Rome School of Music The Catholic University of America Washington, D.C. From heatherhess at hotmail.com Wed May 16 17:40:42 2001 From: heatherhess at hotmail.com (Heather Hess) Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 13:40:42 -0400 Subject: request for assistance Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From heatherhess at hotmail.com Wed May 16 17:41:33 2001 From: heatherhess at hotmail.com (Heather Hess) Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 13:41:33 -0400 Subject: request for assistance Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Amapohuani at aol.com Wed May 16 18:16:27 2001 From: Amapohuani at aol.com (Amapohuani at aol.com) Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 14:16:27 EDT Subject: request for assistance Message-ID: In a message dated 5/16/01 10:30:27 AM, santo at cua.edu writes: << Santa Mariaè, Dios Inantzinè, ma topan ximotlâtolti in titlâtlacoanime in axcan, ihuan inîquac yê tomiquiztempan. Ma yuh mochihua. >> O Saint Mary, O mother of God, intercede for us sinners, now and when we are about to die/when we at the time of our death. My it so be done/Amen. One can translate various ways in English. Ye ixquich. Barry D. Sell From karttu at nantucket.net Wed May 16 22:04:27 2001 From: karttu at nantucket.net (Frances Karttunen) Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 18:04:27 -0400 Subject: request for assistance Message-ID: > (c) how or if the > circumflex on some of the vowels changes the pronunciation of that vowel > or accentuation of the word, e.g. â, î, ê The circumflex indicates that the vowel is sharply cut off by closing of the glottis. It does not shift the stress away from the next-to-last syllable. > (d) what is the effect on > pronunciation/stress of the final grave e (Mariaè, Inantzinè), which > looks like a vocative. I understand that stress is on the second to the > last syllable in nahuatl, though I am not aware if there are any > exceptions. The exception is in the male vocative, which adds the stressed vowel -e to names and appellations. In the form of the Ave Maria quoted, it is a man praying for the intercession of the Virgin. A woman speaking the same prayer would not add the stressed -e. Hence the stress would fall as normally on the next-to-last syllable. Fran Karttunen From heatherhess at hotmail.com Thu May 17 14:23:40 2001 From: heatherhess at hotmail.com (Heather Hess) Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 10:23:40 -0400 Subject: request for assistance Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davius_sanctex at terra.es Thu May 17 20:54:23 2001 From: davius_sanctex at terra.es (David Sanchez) Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 22:54:23 +0200 Subject: Guatemala / Cuauhtemallan Message-ID: I have some difficulties with the interpretation of Quauhtemal(l)an (> Guatemala). Is correct this analysis? /quauh-te:mal-tlan/ 'the place filled up of wood' If this is not correct, what is the correct meaning of "Guatemala"? David S. Universitat Politècnica de Catalunya From davius_sanctex at terra.es Thu May 17 21:00:38 2001 From: davius_sanctex at terra.es (David Sanchez) Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 23:00:38 +0200 Subject: icnopilli / icnopilti Message-ID: Karttunen Analytical dictionary states: 1) icnöpilli / îkno: - pil - tlî / (î epenthetic "i") fatherless child 2) icnöpilti /îkno: - pil - ti / 'to prosper in life, to be favored' By what mysterious chance such a paradoxical change of meaning had happened? Can someone to see the connexion? From mdmorris at indiana.edu Thu May 17 21:32:49 2001 From: mdmorris at indiana.edu (Mark David Morris) Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 16:32:49 -0500 Subject: icnopilli / icnopilti In-Reply-To: <000d01c0df14$6dd83600$3a08523e@pc> Message-ID: David, What's lost in the glosses is the Mesoamerican (or at least Nahua) idea of merit, and that is that you merit by suffering. Hence, icno-tl while meaning literally orphaned is used broadly to suggest merit and compassion, e.g. icnoitta, consider with compassion. Icnopilti suggests not that one prospers by luck but by having paid one's dues in one way or another. best, Mark Morris ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ La muerte tiene permiso a todo MDM, PhD Candidate Dept. of History, Indiana Univ. From mclssaa2 at fs2.mt.umist.ac.uk Fri May 18 09:30:06 2001 From: mclssaa2 at fs2.mt.umist.ac.uk (Anthony Appleyard) Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 09:30:06 GMT Subject: Guatemala / Cuauhtemallan In-Reply-To: <000701c0df13$8e818740$3a08523e@pc> Message-ID: "David Sanchez" wrote:- > I have some difficulties with the interpretation of > Quauhtemal(l)an (> Guatemala). Is correct this analysis? > /quauh-te:mal-tlan/ 'the place filled up of wood' > If this is not correct, what is the correct meaning of "Guatemala"? Could it be derived from {cua:uh} = "eagle"? I read once that the Aztecs took as tribute from somewhere in that direction each year "a live eagle, or as many as can be got". Citlalya:ni From pthajovs at midway.uchicago.edu Fri May 18 15:12:57 2001 From: pthajovs at midway.uchicago.edu (patrick thomas hajovsky) Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 10:12:57 -0500 Subject: icnopilli / icnopilti In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I'm not sure about using this word to imply merit--compassion is clear in Molina's Vocabulario. Merit is gained through other means besides compassion; compassion, like empathy, implies an equality between agent and patient. Merit, on the other hand, involves judgement. Check out icnotlacayotl, Molina's entry for "horfandad o miseria," which seems to be an abstraction of man's suffering in general rather than something earned. I think part of the problem is that the word may have had different meanings in different areas: the entry for fate comes from Tetelcingo, Morelos. Molina does not give a similar meaning. Instead, the causative icnopiltia means "to stay an orphan." Karttunen lists Icnopilti as an irregular verb, from Simeon, taking only possessive prefixes. It seems thus to imply that one takes control of one's own fate, as well as the individual and rather isolated quality of fate itself. Patrick _______________________________ ixquich in pepetlaca xteocuitla On Thu, 17 May 2001, Mark David Morris wrote: > > David, > > What's lost in the glosses is the Mesoamerican (or at least Nahua) idea of > merit, and that is that you merit by suffering. Hence, icno-tl while > meaning literally orphaned is used broadly to suggest merit and > compassion, e.g. icnoitta, consider with compassion. Icnopilti suggests > not that one prospers by luck but by having paid one's dues in one way or > another. > > best, > Mark Morris > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > La muerte tiene permiso a todo > > MDM, PhD Candidate > Dept. of History, Indiana Univ. > > From mdmorris at indiana.edu Sat May 19 17:12:57 2001 From: mdmorris at indiana.edu (Mark David Morris) Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 12:12:57 -0500 Subject: icnopilli / icnopilti In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Patrick, Thanks for your comments; however, verbs derived or modified with icno clearly relate to merit. You might want to check the relevant sections of Carochi. best, Mark Morris ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ La muerte tiene permiso a todo MDM, PhD Candidate Dept. of History, Indiana Univ. From pthajovs at midway.uchicago.edu Sun May 20 02:25:59 2001 From: pthajovs at midway.uchicago.edu (patrick thomas hajovsky) Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 21:25:59 -0500 Subject: icnopilli / icnopilti In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Mark, That's really interesting; you've got some of my wheels turning... I'm wondering if there are other ways to describe merit, and if "merit" can be considered as an aspect of fate rather than something acquired through honor. And getting back to David's question, if both forms with icno were in operation at the same time and in the same places. I'll check out the Carochi. Thanks for the response. Patrick _______________________________ ixquich in pepetlaca xteocuitla On Sat, 19 May 2001, Mark David Morris wrote: > Patrick, > > Thanks for your comments; however, verbs derived or modified with icno > clearly relate to merit. You might want to check the relevant sections of > Carochi. best, > Mark Morris > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > La muerte tiene permiso a todo > > MDM, PhD Candidate > Dept. of History, Indiana Univ. > > From kammler at rz.uni-frankfurt.de Wed May 16 00:08:06 2001 From: kammler at rz.uni-frankfurt.de (kammler at rz.uni-frankfurt.de) Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 02:08:06 +0200 Subject: numbers of Nahuatl speakers? Message-ID: The total number of speakers as well as regional numbers will probably never be exact because: who is a "speaker" (se below)? INI's decision to classify people by the language the head of the household speaks is a major step forward in estimating the population of ethnic groups in Mexico. Sometime in the future the linguistic criterion will probably not be so relevant anymore as more and more household tend to use Spanish with their children leading to an irreversible language erosion. These children will understand nahuatl as it is spoken in the community but will in turn not use it with their own children at all who will be monolingual in Spanish. The number of speakers of Nahuatl is under these circumstances only not dwindling because the birth rates in those communities that stick to the language are very high. Thus, nahuatl loses territory whereas the number of speakers will stagnate (but still we don't know how many they are). In fact, in Guerrero there are prominent political leaders that claim to be nahuas without having any substantial knowledge of the language (they come from communities nahuas that have ceased to use the language about 50 years ago). In statistics they will surely be counted as nahuas without being "speakers". There are probably still many speakers that deny being one. On the other hand it is becoming prestigious within certain non-indigenous sections of society to claim fluency in one of the "ancestral" languages, above all Nahuatl. The INEGI will at any rate not assess those people's claim of fluency. The statistics are also misleading in the assumption that "nahuas" are an ethnic group. My personal observation is that nahuas from different regions recognise their linguistic proximity without atributing much importance to it. (Of course their are exceptions, especially among intellectuals of nahua origin.) In conversation with each other they would use Spanish as it can be quite a challenge to understand the other's dialect. An overarching "identity" is more likely to be found under "ind�gena" or "campesino" or in some cases "artesano". Even in couples where the spouses come from villages within the same region (again in Guerrero) will often speak exclusively in Spanish within their houshold - the minor linguistic differences between them will often be given as one of the reasons not teach their children nahuatl. Whose Nahuatl should they learn? Likewise the children of the current director of the INI, who is a Nahua from San Juan Acatl�n, Gro., are not learning their paternal language. After all: What does a global number of speakers tell us about the language? In the case of Nahuatl there might be some unique regional variants with ten elderly speakers left as well as some variants with 25.000 spekeras in all age groups with a high percentage of monolinguals. They all are counted as "Nahuas". just my 2 cents... ta m�stla Henry John Frederick Schwaller schwallr at selway.umt.edu Associate Provost 406-243-4722 The University of Montana FAX 406-243-5937 http://www.umt.edu/provost/ From schwallr at selway.umt.edu Mon May 21 15:24:17 2001 From: schwallr at selway.umt.edu (John F. Schwaller) Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 09:24:17 -0600 Subject: Ave Maria Message-ID: Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 09:00:56 -0700 To: nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu From: "Rudiger V. Busto" Subject: Ave Maria Icazbalceta's _Codice Franciscano_ records the following version of the Ave Maria (1546): Ma ximopaquiltitie Sancta Mariae: timotemiltitica in gratia, Motlantzinco moytetztica in talotani Dios inic cenca tiyecteneualoni tiquimmoopanauilia in exquichtin ciua: yuan cenca yecteneualoni in itlaaquillo in moxillantzin Jesu Cristo. Yyo Sancta Mariae matopan ximotlatolti in titlatlacoani. Mayuh mochiua. Dios te salve , Sancta Maria: llena eres de gracia: el Senor es contigo: bendita eres entre todas y sobre todas las mujeres, y tambien es muy bendito el fructo de ut vientre Jesucristo. Oh Sancta Maria! Ruega por nosotros pecadores. NOTE: absence of "..in the hour of our deaths, Amen" ORIGINAL INQUIRY: Since I am interested particularly in the second half of the prayer, I am copying only that part here: ...Santa Mariaè, Dios Inantzinè, ma topan ximotlâtolti in titlâtlacoanime in axcan, ihuan inîquac yê tomiquiztempan. Ma yuh mochihua. This is supposed to translate: "Santa María, Madre de Dios, ruega por nosotros pecadores ahora y en la hora de nuestra muerte. Amén." -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Rudy V. Busto rude at stanford.edu Assistant Professor 650.723.0465 (office) Religious Studies 650.725.1476 (fax) Stanford University Stanford, CA 94305-2165 "...who knows what the ostrich sees in the sand ? " --- Samuel Beckett From mclssaa2 at fs2.mt.umist.ac.uk Mon May 21 16:41:56 2001 From: mclssaa2 at fs2.mt.umist.ac.uk (Anthony Appleyard) Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 16:41:56 GMT Subject: numbers of Nahuatl speakers? In-Reply-To: <200105211513.f4LFDo908876@server2.umt.edu> Message-ID: To avoid one reason for Nahuas to have to learn Spanish: what Nahuatl (and Mayan etc) language radio and TV programs and newspapers are there? From salvador at iastate.edu Mon May 21 16:27:30 2001 From: salvador at iastate.edu (Ricardo J. Salvador) Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 11:27:30 -0500 Subject: numbers of Nahuatl speakers? Message-ID: At 4:41 PM +0000 5/21/01, Anthony Appleyard wrote: >To avoid one reason for Nahuas to have to learn Spanish: what Nahuatl (and >Mayan etc) language radio and TV programs and newspapers are there? Not much in this vein. Nahuatl: Radio Huayacocotla (Hueyacocotla, Veracruz) http://www.sjsocial.org/Radio/huarad.html Zapotec: La Voz de la Sierra (Guelatao, Oaxaca) http://www.oaxaca-mio.com/recursos/radioyprensa.htm Purepecha: Radio Nicola=EDta (Morelia, Michoacan) -- Ricardo J. Salvador E-mail: salvador at iastate.edu 1126 Agronomy Hall Voice: (515) 294-9595 Iowa State University Fax: (515) 294-8146 Ames IA 50011-1010 WWW: http://www.public.iastate.edu/~rjsalvad From davius_sanctex at terra.es Mon May 21 21:22:54 2001 From: davius_sanctex at terra.es (David Sanchez) Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 23:22:54 +0200 Subject: Aztec Cannibalism Message-ID: Science 12 May 1978 Vl. 200, No. 4342 pages 611-617 Aztec Cannibalism: An Ecological Necessity? The Aztec diet was adequate in protein and cannibalism would not have contributed greatly. Bernard R. Ortiz de Montellano: http://www.rose-hulman.edu/~delacova/aztecs/montellano.htm -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mdmorris at indiana.edu Mon May 21 21:46:39 2001 From: mdmorris at indiana.edu (Mark David Morris) Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 16:46:39 -0500 Subject: numbers of Nahuatl speakers? In-Reply-To: <200105211716.f4LHGmB12871@server2.umt.edu> Message-ID: Sorry I don't have time to add a full response to the recent discussion; however, you might find it amusing that I got myself counted as a Nahuatl speaker in Sta. Maria Atlihuetzia, Tlaxcala last year. The question, hence, was open ended enough that I was able to report Nahuatl in the household without exaggerating, i.e. I didn't claim I was a native speaker, that I had complete proficiency in the language etc. The questions was pretty low key. Viva La Virgen de Ocotlan! Mark Morris ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ La muerte tiene permiso a todo MDM, PhD Candidate Dept. of History, Indiana Univ. From LaVoz at Aztlan.Net Mon May 21 22:54:54 2001 From: LaVoz at Aztlan.Net (La Voz de Aztlan) Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 15:54:54 -0700 Subject: No subject In-Reply-To: Message-ID: inquiry From Amapohuani at aol.com Mon May 21 23:42:00 2001 From: Amapohuani at aol.com (Amapohuani at aol.com) Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 19:42:00 EDT Subject: numbers of Nahuatl speakers? Message-ID: In a message dated 5/21/01 2:54:06 PM, mdmorris at indiana.edu writes: << Sorry I don't have time to add a full response to the recent discussion; however, you might find it amusing that I got myself counted as a Nahuatl speaker in Sta. Maria Atlihuetzia, Tlaxcala last year. The question, hence, was open ended enough that I was able to report Nahuatl in the household without exaggerating, i.e. I didn't claim I was a native speaker, that I had complete proficiency in the language etc. The questions was pretty low key. Viva La Virgen de Ocotlan! Mark Morris >> Amazing!! Ye ixquich. Barry D. Sell From LaVoz at Aztlan.Net Tue May 22 01:27:53 2001 From: LaVoz at Aztlan.Net (La Voz de Aztlan) Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 18:27:53 -0700 Subject: "La Ley Azteca" - Re: homosexualidad y lesbianismo In-Reply-To: <77.14f981ee.283b01c8@aol.com> Message-ID: Commentary appreciated from members of the nahuat-l list on the following study by Bernarda Reza Ramirez of the Universidad Abierta de Mexico concerning views and punishment of homosexuality and lesbianism by Los Aztecas: La Voz de Aztlan http://www.aztlan.net Full study is at: http://www.universidadabierta.edu.mx/Biblio/R/Reza%20Bernarda-Llave%20Veracruz.htm BREVE HISTORIA DE LAS CÁRCELES PREHISPÁNICAS 1.1 CÁRCELES AZTECAS El Derecho Penal prehispánico, fue rudimentario, símbolo de una civilización que no había alcanzado la perfección en las leyes, El Derecho Penal Mexicano ha escrito Kohleres testimonio de severidad moral, de concepción dura de la vida y de notable cohesión política, El sistema penal era casi draconiano”. La restitución al ofendido era la base principal para resolver los actos antisociales, El destierro o la muerte era la suerte que esperaba al malhechor que ponía en peligro a la comunidad. Se empleaban jaulas y cercados para confinar a los prisioneros, antes de juzgarlos o sacrificarlos, Desde luego, tales jaulas y cercados cumplían la función de lo que hoy llamamos cárcel preventiva. Una cárcel como las que funcionan en la actualidad no era necesaria, ya que los castigos eran tan severos y crueles que el infractor necesitaba una tumba, no una cárcel, Se mencionarán algunos de los castigos más usuales: - El robo, se castigaba con la esclavitud, hasta que se hiciera la restitución de lo robado, o una multa del Doble de la cantidad robada(una parte para la víctima y otra para el tesoro del clan). - El robo en camino real, pena de muerte, Las raterías en el mercado, pena de muerte instantánea por lapidación - Robo del maíz, cuando estaba creciendo en el campo, pena de muerte - o esclavitud - Hurto de oro, plata o jade, pena de muerte, - El asesinato, incluso de un esclavo, pena de muerte, - La intemperancia (vicio de que no sabe moderar sus apetitos), reprobación social, descrédito y hasta la muerte por lapidación y a golpes, - La calumnia, corte de los labios y algunas veces, también de las orejas, - El incesto, muerte en la horca, - La sodomía, muerte en la horca, - Homosexualidad, empalamiento para el sujeto activo; extracción de las entrañas, por el orificio anal, para el sujeto pasivo - Lesbianismo, muerte por garrote, La ley azteca era brutal, en su máxima expresión, Desde la infancia el individuo debía observar una conducta social correcta, si violaba la ley sufría las consecuencias, Por el miedo a la severidad de las leyes nunca fue necesario recurrir al encarcelamiento, como medio para ejecutar el castigo de un crimen, Las jaulas y cercados se empleaban con el objeto de confinar a los prisioneros antes de juzgarlos o sacrificarlos, Actualmente se trata de rehabilitar a los presos, los Aztecas, por el contrario, mantenían a los delincuentes potenciales y a toda la comunidad, bajo el peso de un convenio tácito de terror. Se podría decir que los Aztecas “rehabilitaban a priori”, es decir, prevenían el crimen a través del terror. ************************************************** From IXTLIL at aol.com Tue May 22 02:38:22 2001 From: IXTLIL at aol.com (IXTLIL at aol.com) Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 22:38:22 EDT Subject: "La Ley Azteca" - Re: homosexualidad y lesbianismo Message-ID: kohler's work, although highly accurate and commendable for its time, is decades out of date. Bernarda Reza Ramirez could use a more modern study. certainly, the rules and penalties reported are representative of what is found in the sources describing fifteenth and sixteen century central mexico. application of the rules is more difficult to ascertain in the various "Aztec" (and other central Mexican) groups, particularly with respect to prosecutorial zeal or disinterest, strict or lax application of rules to cases and general custom and practice in the societal groups in question. all these help to expand and modify the meaning of "rules." it is quite possible that these rules were absent in some locales and mere guidelines and advisories in other locales, although it is known that Texcocan jurisprudence (which is the origin of several of these rules) emphasized strict application of rules to cases. this was in response to a perceived need to control ethnically diverse groups living in close proximity in times of considerable social change. unfortunately most of the evidence of this diversity is irretrievably lost. (the term "aztec" captures about as much of the diversity that there was in Central Mexico as does the term "Chinese" for the many groups in "China"). the "aztecs' of tenochtitlan were only a small part of the story in central mexico. with the apparent decline of the single party state in mexico, we may see more scholarship devoted to the distribution of power over time among the various groups of pre-hispanic central mexico rather than to studies stressing centralization under the "aztecs" of tenochtitlan--who had come over time to be the de facto icon of the one party system. i would have hoped by now that scholarship would have advanced beyond this old routine--using rules and penalties out of context to create the familiar "Aztec Crime and Punishment Side (i.e. Freak) Show" and causing unnecessary concern instead of studying their interesting jurisprudential system in as full a cultural and historical context as we are fortunate enough to have. jerry offner -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From LaVoz at Aztlan.Net Tue May 22 15:12:23 2001 From: LaVoz at Aztlan.Net (La Voz de Aztlan) Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 08:12:23 -0700 Subject: "La Ley Azteca" - Re: homosexualidad y lesbianismo In-Reply-To: <54.14e35ec4.283b2b1e@aol.com> Message-ID: Thank you Sr. Jerry Offner: La Voz de Aztlan thanks you for your thoughtful commentary. We have been researching the subject for quite some time and have found little on the "legal system" of our ancient indigenous ancestors and specially concerning their judicial and cultural views on homosexuality and lesbianism. You commented that Bernarda Reza Ramirez should perhaps use "a more modern study". Do you or anyone else on the list know of any modern studies on the subject? Also, does anyone on the list know the Nahuatl terms for homosexual and lesbian? What Nahuatl terms were used by the Aztecs to denote the practices? Respectfully, Ernesto Cienfuegos Editor-in-Chief La Voz de Aztlan ----------------- Website: http://www.aztlan.net On Mon, 21 May 2001 22:38:22 EDT IXTLIL at aol.com wrote: > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > kohler's work, although highly accurate and commendable for its time, is > decades out of date. Bernarda Reza Ramirez could use a more modern study. > > certainly, the rules and penalties reported are representative of what is > found in the sources describing fifteenth and sixteen century central mexico. > application of the rules is more difficult to ascertain in the various > "Aztec" (and other central Mexican) groups, particularly with respect to > prosecutorial zeal or disinterest, strict or lax application of rules to > cases and general custom and practice in the societal groups in question. > all these help to expand and modify the meaning of "rules." it is quite > possible that these rules were absent in some locales and mere guidelines and > advisories in other locales, although it is known that Texcocan jurisprudence > (which is the origin of several of these rules) emphasized strict > application of rules to cases. this was in response to a perceived need to > control ethnically diverse groups living in close proximity in times of > considerable social change. unfortunately most of the evidence of this > diversity is irretrievably lost. (the term "aztec" captures about as much of > the diversity that there was in Central Mexico as does the term "Chinese" for > the many groups in "China"). > > the "aztecs' of tenochtitlan were only a small part of the story in central > mexico. with the apparent decline of the single party state in mexico, we may > see more scholarship devoted to the distribution of power over time among the > various groups of pre-hispanic central mexico rather than to studies > stressing centralization under the "aztecs" of tenochtitlan--who had come > over time to be the de facto icon of the one party system. > > i would have hoped by now that scholarship would have advanced beyond this > old routine--using rules and penalties out of context to create the familiar > "Aztec Crime and Punishment Side (i.e. Freak) Show" and causing unnecessary > concern instead of studying their interesting jurisprudential system in as > full a cultural and historical context as we are fortunate enough to have. > > jerry offner > > > From juergen.stowasser at univie.ac.at Tue May 22 17:00:45 2001 From: juergen.stowasser at univie.ac.at (Juergen Stowasser) Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 19:00:45 +0200 Subject: "La Ley Azteca" - Re: homosexualidad y lesbianismo Message-ID: Sahagún lists various terms for homosexual/lesbian/transgender... La Voz de Aztlan schrieb: > Also, does anyone on the list know the Nahuatl > terms for homosexual and lesbian? What Nahuatl > terms were used by the Aztecs to denote the > practices? > -- Juergen Stowasser Burggasse 114/2/8 A-1070 Wien - Vien(n)a Austria tel: 01/ 524 54 60 v 0676/ 398 66 79 http://www.univie.ac.at/meso From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx Tue May 22 18:06:48 2001 From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright) Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 12:06:48 -0600 Subject: numbers of Nahuatl speakers? Message-ID: Estimados colegas y amigos de NAHUAT-L: El INEGI acaba de publicar los resultados definitivos del censo 2000, incluyendo los datos sobre la poblaci'on de 5 a'nos y m'as que habla alguna lengua ind'igena. Seg'un el resumen, la poblaci'on total del pa'is es de 97.48 millones; "Poco m'as de seis millones de personas de 5 a'nos y m'as en M'exico, hablan alguna lengua ind'igena; este monto significa 7% del total de poblaci'on en este grupo de edad, que es de 84.8 millones. Las lenguas ind'igenas más frecuentes en México son la N'ahuatl con 24% de los hablantes, Maya con 13.2% y Mixteco 7.2 por ciento". Fuente: http://www.inegi.gob.mx/difusion/espanol/fpoblacion.html Ustedes pueden obtener tablas detalladas, con los resultados por estado, municipio, lengua etc'etera, en formato .pdf y excel, en la siguiente p'agina: http://www.inegi.gob.mx/difusion/espanol/poblacion/definitivos/nal/tabulados/indice.html Aparentemente la gente del INEGI cada vez es m'as r'apida y eficiente. Saludos, David Wright -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Amapohuani at aol.com Tue May 22 17:27:19 2001 From: Amapohuani at aol.com (Amapohuani at aol.com) Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 13:27:19 EDT Subject: "La Ley Azteca" - Re: homosexualidad y lesbianismo Message-ID: Also colonial Nahuatl church materials, espeically confessionals, contain terminology concerning gays and lesbians [of course, all very negative]. These may be especially useful because the questions contained in the confessional manuals were meant to be geared to the average Nahua. Molina would be a good place to start, then Bautista and others. From rude at stanford.edu Tue May 22 17:35:02 2001 From: rude at stanford.edu (Rudiger V. Busto) Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 10:35:02 -0700 Subject: homosexualidad y lesbianismo Message-ID: Ernesto, you must be careful about your use of the terms "homosexual" and "lesbian" -- these are modern day terms/labels that refer to identities created under specific historical and sociological conditions. These terms must also be distinct from same sex physical interactions, some of which are only considered "homosexual" in the North Atlantic world (for example, grown men holding hands in public). Thus it is problematic to "import" modern day identities back into history unless there is good evidence to do so. Be aware that some of what looks like "homosexuality" in the Spanish chronicles is filtered through the worldviews of Europeans and not necessarily reflective of indigenous worldview. In addition, one must take care to not assume that words like "sodomy" mean the same thing in the 16th Century as they do today. > > >Also, does anyone on the list know the Nahuatl >terms for homosexual and lesbian? What Nahuatl >terms were used by the Aztecs to denote the >practices? > >Respectfully, > >Ernesto Cienfuegos >Editor-in-Chief >La Voz de Aztlan -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Rudy V. Busto rude at stanford.edu Assistant Professor 650.723.0465 (office) Religious Studies 650.725.1476 (fax) Stanford University Stanford, CA 94305-2165 "...who knows what the ostrich sees in the sand ? " --- Samuel Beckett From mdmorris at indiana.edu Tue May 22 18:06:05 2001 From: mdmorris at indiana.edu (Mark David Morris) Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 13:06:05 -0500 Subject: "La Ley Azteca" - Re: homosexualidad y lesbianismo In-Reply-To: <3B0A81D72F8.F75CLAVOZ@smtp.earthlink.net> Message-ID: Aztlan etc. As in many cultures, homosexuality seems to have been marked in Mesoamerican (again, at least among Nahuas) as taking the role of a woman and cuilloni meaning "He who uses the anus" is the Nahuatl term for "passive" homosexual. Cuylon is the contemporary Central American term, used extensively at least in Nicaragua and Honduras (colchon tends to be used more in Honduras). Lancaster's book on Nicaragua's revolutionary culture _Life Is Hard_ includes a contemporary study of the cuylon in Nicaraguan society. best, Mark Morris ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ La muerte tiene permiso a todo MDM, PhD Candidate Dept. of History, Indiana Univ. From pthajovs at midway.uchicago.edu Tue May 22 18:08:32 2001 From: pthajovs at midway.uchicago.edu (patrick thomas hajovsky) Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 13:08:32 -0500 Subject: homosexualidad y lesbianismo In-Reply-To: <200105221749.f4MHndR10681@server2.umt.edu> Message-ID: On the note of sodomy, you should check out Mark Jordan, who writes about Peter Damian and authoritative texts in the Medieval Church. Also, were there transgendered (I use the term loosely) Aztecs that fulfilled a social role, as we find the North American Southwest? Patrick _______________________________ ixquich in pepetlaca xteocuitla On Tue, 22 May 2001, Rudiger V. Busto wrote: > > Ernesto, you must be careful about your use of the terms "homosexual" > and "lesbian" -- these are modern day terms/labels that refer to > identities created under specific historical and sociological > conditions. These terms must also be distinct from same sex physical > interactions, some of which are only considered "homosexual" in the > North Atlantic world (for example, grown men holding hands in public). > Thus it is problematic to "import" modern day identities back into > history unless there is good evidence to do so. Be aware that some > of what looks like "homosexuality" in the Spanish chronicles is > filtered through the worldviews of Europeans and not necessarily > reflective of indigenous worldview. In addition, one must take care > to not assume that words like "sodomy" mean the same thing in the > 16th Century as they do today. > > > > > > >Also, does anyone on the list know the Nahuatl > >terms for homosexual and lesbian? What Nahuatl > >terms were used by the Aztecs to denote the > >practices? > > > >Respectfully, > > > >Ernesto Cienfuegos > >Editor-in-Chief > >La Voz de Aztlan > -- > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Rudy V. Busto rude at stanford.edu > Assistant Professor 650.723.0465 (office) > Religious Studies 650.725.1476 (fax) > Stanford University > Stanford, CA 94305-2165 > "...who knows what the ostrich sees in the sand ? " > --- Samuel Beckett > > From mdmorris at indiana.edu Tue May 22 18:22:36 2001 From: mdmorris at indiana.edu (Mark David Morris) Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 13:22:36 -0500 Subject: Merit In-Reply-To: <200105221749.f4MHndR10681@server2.umt.edu> Message-ID: Following up on the idea of merit and in honor of the Virgin of Ocotlan who did us a very nice job yesterday with rains coming down in storybook fashion as the Virgin was being brought back into her sanctuary after a week and a half without rain, I've put below a letter from 1752 from Francisco Loysaga to Miguel Aparicio Hernandez that highlights ideas of merit that still prevail here in Tlaxcala--and that I think are firmly indigenous--and also gives some idea of the veneration of the Virgin during the 18th-century fervor for her cult. Following, is my Spanish translation that suffers from the 7bit-8bit issue. Any comments, corrections or questions about the translation would be welcome. My version with all the paarenthetical digressions on the 5-7 guesses (and/or) the file as attachment could be had by anyone who might want to examine my translation. best, Mark Morris Notlazo Mahuispili + Sr. Dn Migl Aparicio regr pasado onoconseli ynMotlac toca Mahuisotzi ycamiec pacpa quilistli yhu- Nicmotlatlautilia yn senquisca ylhuicac thothepan tlactoca siuapili Sa de Ocotlan ticmopanoltilis yni tlazo ylhu quixtililo catzin huey pascua yn Nescalilizin ynitlaso sente cone tzin yca miec chicahualistli tlacpa:dtilistli Neyolalistli tlacuapantilistli yNahuactzin co ynMoteoyotica Nesetilizin yhu- ycNochtintzitzin ynitla chihualtzitzihuan ynDivino simo Sr. Sacramentado Mah quimo [ne] quiltizino yn yehu [tzin] Mizmo maquilizino : mie Gracia yCa ticmocuica' yecten huilizinos yn pa:paquilis zope lica tlactolzintli; Alelulla; Ale lulla; Alelulla yhu- zatepan f1v. Miec tlacuapantilistli yteh ynmotlatquizin yCaticmothe quipanolhuilis yteh ynin tlac ticpaccayotl yca satepan tic mo Masehuitzinoti, yn ylhuicac tlactocayotl yn campa semicac yolis yn Motlazo Animatzin Axcan yehuatzinco onicatca ynahuac yntote-pixca tatzin yhu- ocsepa onoconma quili ynpascuas yca yn boregozi otocon motitlanili huel miecoqu itlasocamat; ynmoMasuisozin onoconseli ynNahui tominzi Ma yn tto Ds nopanpa quimoxtlahui lis o:mpa mizmotitlanilia yn nsoazin yn xinolazin chicuey tzopelic; sequi confites Nahui pantzi tzopelic; ticomo Masehu is amihuantzin ynsiuapili Sa Da thomasa; yhu- Nehuatl Nimizmotitlanilia yua Wa basa yCa mobolsa:zin, yntehtocon huicali nemis yCa tocontequis panzi: ynyolitzintli Maconhui ali cacan ypan tonali Miercoles ompa Nocontitlani yn palla yhu- ynchane tote yn fran (line illegibly faint) yhu- ynManteles amo Cahuican ypanpa yn yehtequi Mechilhuia yn Motitlanzi Neloquimo nahuatili yntoteopixcatzi Motlacuilhuilis Mostla--------- sa yxquichMa yn tto Ds Miz mochicahuilizino mie c xihuitl Nehuatl yhu- yn No soazi ti Mocahua yca timizmotequipanohuilis q- tlaxcala yhu- Abril 12 de 1752 q MMM Motetequipanocatzi franco antt loysaga Amado estimado noble Seor don Miguel Aparicio regidor pasado Recib tu noble honor con mucho alegra y ruego a nuestra perfecta celestial abogada la Seora de Ocotlan que t pasars la salida del celestial ser (de) la gran pascua; la aparicin del perfecto amado hijo y con mucho salud, convivencia, fraternidad y consuncin al lado de tu consagrada esposa y todos las creaciones del Divinismo Seor Sacramentado, que disponga l de dar ti mucha gracia con tus canciones de alabanzas, la alegre y dulce palabra; Aleluya; Aleluya; Aleluya y luego mucho convite de tu propiedad, el fruto de tu trabajo en este mundo, para que luego mereces el reino del cielo donde siempre vivir tu precioso alma Hoy mismo estuve con nuestro capelln y otra vez le di el borrego para pascuas que enviaste; mucho lo agradezca; recib tu honor, los cuatro tomines; que nuestro seor Dios lo pagar por mi causa. Mi esposa te mandar all ocho dulce xinolatzin; algunos confites, cuatro de los dulces; lo mereces, ustedes la seora doa Thomasa; y yo te mando esto (N-W)abasa con tu bolsa, en que tu andas trayendo en tu trabajo; que se lleva el yolitzintli en mircoles. Te mandar all la palia y no enva el frontal y los manteles de la casa porque ya trabaja (lo que) me deca en tu envo. Cierto que nuestro capelln escribir maana. Es todo. Que nuestro seor dios te guarde muchos aos. Yo y mi esposa se queda tus servidores. Tlaxcallan el 12 de abril de 1752, besa tu mano tu servidor, Francisco Antonio Loysaga ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ La muerte tiene permiso a todo MDM, PhD Candidate Dept. of History, Indiana Univ. From campbel at indiana.edu Tue May 22 20:27:32 2001 From: campbel at indiana.edu (r. joe campbell) Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 15:27:32 -0500 Subject: "La Ley Azteca" - Re: homosexualidad y lesbianismo In-Reply-To: <3B0A9B3D.DCA1C75B@univie.ac.at> Message-ID: I checked Molina's 1571 Nahuatl-Spanish dictionary and found the material below. Best regards, Joe "sinful, hard of heart, evil, debauched, bad reputation" follows ******** bai *** sexual intercourse ahuiani. puta, o mala muger. 71m2-9v1-2 ahuianiti (n). ser puta. 71m2-9v1-2 ahuiani calli. burdel, o puteria. 71m2-9v1-2 cihuanotzani (cenca-invert.2). desainado, porse dar mucho a mugeres. 71m2-17r1-3 centecpanhuia (nite). dar botin a muger s. echarse muchos con ella. 71m2-17v1-3 chahuacocoya. estar afligida la muger porque su marido esta amancebado, o por tener alguna grave enfermedad. 71m2-19r2-4 chauh (no). mi combleza. 71m2-19r2-4 cihuayo. persona que se sirue de mugeres. 71m2-22v1-4 cihuaihuinti. hombre dado a mugeres. 71m2-22v1-4 cihuatlahuelilocati (ni). darse mucho a mugeres. 71m2-22v2-4 cihuatlahuicale. persona que tiene seruicio de mugeres. 71m2-22v2-4 cochuia (nite). hazerlo ala muger que esta durmiendo. 71m2-23v1-4 coyoquetza (nite). tomarse como brutos animales. 71m2-24r1-4 cui (nic). tomar algo, o tener parte el hombre con la muger. 71m2-26v1-5 cuicui (nic). tener parte el hombre con la muger. 71m2-26v2-5 cuilonyotl. pecado nefando, de hombre con hombre. 71m2-26v2-5 cuilontia (nite). cometer pecado nefando. 71m2-26v2-5 icza (mo). tomarse las aues. 71m2-32r1-6 yecoa (nite). hazerlo ael, o aella. 71m2-34v2-6 yomoni. bullir los gusanos, o piojos, pulgas, hormigas, o cosas semejantes, o dar mucha comezon los granos o la sarna, o tener gran encendimiento dela carne los mozos omozas luxuriosas. 71m2-41r2-7 aci (itech n-invert.1). tener parte con alguna muger. 71m2-42r2-7 itetia (nite). empre�ar el varon ala muger. 71m2-42v2-7 itlacoa (nin). enfermar por se dar mucho a mugeres. 71m2-43r1-7 itlan nicochi. dormir con muger. 71m2-43r2-8 yoli. cosa biua, o alterarse el miembro. 71m2-44r2-8 yolitia (nic). alterar el miembro. 71m2-44r2-8 maahuiltia. ramera. 71m2-50r1-9 maahuiltiani. puta honesta. 71m2-50r1-9 mahahuiltia. puta honesta. 71m2-51r2-9 maxaloa (nic). hazer traycion el casado a su muger, teniendo parte con otra, o ella a el cometiendo adulterio. 71m2-54v2-9 mecatia (nino). amancebarse. o proueerse de cordeles. 71m2-55r1-9 mictia (nitla). ser impotente para engendrar, o sacrificar ante los idolos matando algo. 71m2-56r2-10 [i]cza (mo-invert.1). tomarse las aues. 71m2-57v1-10 cihuahuiqui (mo). desainado por se auer dado mucho a mugeres. 71m2-57v2-10 mecati (mo). amancebado. 71m2-58v2-10 mecatiani (mo). amancebado. 71m2-58v2-10 cuauhquetza (mo-invert.1). alterarse o alzarse el miembro. 71m2-059v2-10 quetza (mo). tomarse las animalias. 71m2-059v2-10 quequeza (mo). tomarse las aues. 71m2-059v2-10 quetzallani (mo-invert.1). estar cachonda la perra. &c. 71m2-060r1-10 quetztlani (mo-invert.1). estar cochonda la perra. &c. 71m2-060r1-10 tetlaneuhtiani (mo). puta del burdel. 71m2-060r2-10 tetlanehuiani (mo). puta�ero. 71m2-060r2-10 tetzincohuiani (mo). puta�ero. 71m2-060r2-10 tzinnamacani (mo). puta del burdel. 71m2-061r1-10 cihuahuiliztli (ne-invert.2). enfermedad causada por se auer dado mucho a mugeres. 71m2-65r1-11 mecatiliztica (ne-invert.2). con amancebamiento. 71m2-67r2-11 mecatiliztli (ne-invert.2). amancebamiento. 71m2-67r2-11 nepanoliztli (ne-invert.2). copula, o ayuntamiento carnal. 71m2-68r1-12 nepanoa (nite). tener parte con muger, o meterse entre otros. 71m2-68v2-12 patlachhuiliztli (ne-invert.2). el acto de hazerlo la vna ala otra, pecando contra natura. 71m2-69r1-12 tlaneuhtilizcalli (ne-invert.2). burdel o casa de malas mugeres. 71m2-70v1-12 tlaneuhtiloyan (ne-invert.2). burdel o casa de malas mugeres. 71m2-70v1-12 tzincohuiloyan (ne-invert.2). burdel. 71m2-71r1-12 tzinnamacoyan (ne-invert.2). burdel. 71m2-71r1-12 noquicho. mi simiente. 71m2-73v2-13 occhalchihuitl. es aun donzella y virgen. metaphora. 71m2-75r1-13 ocmacitinemi. donzella virgen y entera. 71m2-75r2-13 ocmotquitinemi. virgen entera. 71m2-75v1-13 huel ichpochtli (oc -invert.2). virgen que esta aun entera. 71m2-75v2-13 otlamicti. hombre impotente para engendrar. 71m2-78r1-13 patlachhuia (nite). hazerlo vna muger a otra. 71m2-80r2-14 cuauhtilia (nitla). arrechar o alterar el miembro. 71m2-87r1-15 cuauhtlaza (nite). echarse muchos convna muger o dar botin. 71m2-87r1-15 quequeza (mo). tomarse las aues para engendrar. 71m2-89r1-15 quetza (nite). detener, o hazer parar alque camina o hazer leuantar alque esta asentado, o hazerlo el perro ala perra, o el cauallo ala yegua. 71m2-89r2-15 cochhuia (nite-invert.1). tener parte conla muger que esta durmiendo. 71m2-92v2-16 cuilonti (te-invert.2). el que lo haze a otro, pecando contra natura. 71m2-93v1-16 cuilontiani (te-invert.2). el que lo haze a otro, pecando contra natura. 71m2-93v1-16 cuilontiliztli (te-invert.2). el acto del que comete este pecado. 71m2-93v1-16 teichtacamecauh. manceba de soltero. 71m2-94r2-16 ixelehuiani (te-invert.2). cobdiciador de mugeres, o cobdiciadora de varones. 71m2-95v2-16 ixelehuiliztica (te-invert.2). cobdiciando mugeres. &c. 71m2-95v2-16 ixelehuiliztli (te-invert.2). cobdicia tal. 71m2-95v2-16 temecauh. manceba de soltero. 71m2-98r1-16 yani (tepan -invert.2). adultero. 71m2-102r1-17 yaqui (tepan -invert.2). adultero. 71m2-102r1-17 yauh (tepan ni-invert.1). cometer adulterio. 71m2-102r1-17 teca (nite-invert.1). echarse con alguna muger. 71m2-105v2-18 tecaliztli (te-invert.2). el acto de echarse y tener parte con muger. 71m2-106r1-18 tecani (te-invert.2). el que se echa con muger. 71m2-106r1-18 axiliztli (tetech-invert.2). el acto de tener parte, o ayuntamiento con muger. 71m2-106r1-18 aci (tetech n-invert.1). tener conuersacion y parte con muger. 71m2-106r1-18 tlamia (tetech nino-invert.1). infamar a alguna persona diziendo que tuuo parte conella, no siendo verdad. 71m2-106r2-18 acqui (tetlan-invert.2). trama de tela, o el que quiere adulterar. 71m2-108v2-18 nahualnochili (tetla-invert.2). alcahuete, o alcahueta. 71m2-108v2-18 nahualnochiliani (tetla-invert.2). alcahuete, o alcahueta. 71m2-108v2-18 nahualnochililiztli (tetla-invert.2). alcahueteria. 71m2-108v2-18 nahualnochiliqui (tetla-invert.2). alcahuete, o alcahueta. 71m2-108v2-18 nanahuatiliqui (tetla-invert.2). alcahuete, o alcahueta. 71m2-108v2-18 nahuatili (tetla-invert.2). alcahuete, o alcahueta. 71m2-108v2-18 nahuatililiztli (tetla-invert.2). alcahueteria. 71m2-108v2-18 aqui (tetlan n-invert.1). echarse, o tener parte conla que esta durmiendo. 71m2-108v2-18 nochili (tetla-invert.2). alcahuete, o alcahueta. 71m2-109r1-18 nochiliani (tetla-invert.2). alcahuete, o alcahueta. 71m2-109r1-18 nochililiztli (tetla-invert.2). alcahueteria. 71m2-109r1-18 nochiliqui (tetla-invert.2). alcahuete. 71m2-109r1-18 ximaliztica (tetla-invert.2). adulterando, o cometiendo adulterio. 71m2-110r2-19 ximaliztli (tetla-invert.2). adulterio. 71m2-110r2-19 ximani (tetla-invert.2). adultero. 71m2-110r2-19 xinqui (tetla-invert.2). adultero. 71m2-110r2-19 tetzacayotl. esterilidad delos que son esteriles y no engendran hijos. 71m2-110v2-19 tetzacati (ni). hazerse esteril. 71m2-110v2-19 tetzacatilia (nite). hazer esteril a alguna. 71m2-110v2-19 tetzacatl. esteril, que no tiene hijos. 71m2-110v2-19 tetzicayotl. esterilidad delos que no engendran. 71m2-111r2-19 tetzicati. hazerse esteril assi. 71m2-111r2-19 tetzicatl. esteril, que no engendra hijos. 71m2-111r2-19 tzintzayanaliztli (te-invert.2). corrompimiento de virgen. s. el acto de corromperla, lastimandola mucho. 71m2-111v1-19 tzintzayanani (te-invert.2). corrompedor tal. 71m2-111v1-19 xapotlaliztli (te-invert.2). corrompimiento, o desfloracion de virgen. 71m2-112r2-19 xapotlani (te-invert.2). corrompedor de virgen. 71m2-112r2-19 tilinia (nite). asir de alguna para tener parte conella. 71m2-113r2-19 tixpampa quiza. simiente de muger. &c. 71m2-113v2-19 tixpampa huetzi. simiente de muger. &c. 71m2-113v2-19 tlacaxinachtli. simiente devaron o de muger. 71m2-116r1-20 ihiani (tla-invert.2). asqueroso y aborrecedor dela comida, o dela muger. &c. 71m2-121v1-21 mictiliztli (tla-invert.2). impotencia del varon, que no puede tener parte con muger. 71m2-126v2-22 tlaneuhtia (nino). puta�ear la muger. 71m2-128v1-22 tlacuauhtilia (ni). arrechar o leuantar el miembro. 71m2-133v2-23 tlacuauhtiliani. el que assi leuanta el miembro. 71m2-133v2-23 tlacuauhtilliliztli [sic]. el acto de arrechar. 71m2-133v2-23 quequezaliztli (tla-invert.2). el acto de pisar o recalcar algo, o el acto de tomar el gallo ala gallina. 71m2-134r1-23 quequezani (tla-invert.2). recalcador, pisador, o pateador, o gallo que toma ala gallina. 71m2-134r1-23 tlaxintli (tla-invert.2). cornudo. s. al que han hecho adulterio. 71m2-140r1-24 tlatoca. el que anda sembrando o siembra semillas, o el que va al burdel, o el que continua la casa de su manceba o amiga. 71m2-140v1-24 xapotlalli (tla-invert.2). cosa agujerada, o horadada, o virgen corrompida. 71m2-145v1-25 xima (nitetla-invert.1). adulterar. 71m2-146r1-25 xochihuilli (tla-invert.2). muger encantada y lleuada por ay adelante. 71m2-146v1-25 tocihuayo. simiente de muger. 71m2-148v1-25 totomicqui. varon impotente para engendrar. 71m2-150v2-26 totomiquiliztli. impotencia de varon para engendrar. 71m2-150v2-26 tzimmicqui. varon impotente para engendrar. 71m2-152r2-26 tzincohuia (ninote). puta�ear el varon pagando ala dama. 71m2-152r2-26 tzinnamaca (nino). venderla muger su cuerpo. 71m2-152v1-26 tzinnamaca (nite). alcahuetear. 71m2-152v1-26 tzinquetza (nite). tener parte y tomarse el varon y la muger, amanera de brutos. 71m2-152v1-26 tzinquetza (nino). ponerse la muger amanera de perra o de otro animal, paraque el varon tenga parte con ella. 71m2-152v1-26 huel ichpochotl. virginidad entera. 71m2-156r1-26 xapotla (nite). desflorar o corromper virgen. 71m2-158v1-27 xinachoa (nino). asementarse. 71m2-159r2-27 ************ cccb *** sinful, hard of heart, evil, debauched, bad reputation achihualiztli. cosa ilicita que no se deue hazer. 71m2-2r2-1 achihualoni. cosa ilicita que no se deue hazer. 71m2-2r2-1 ahahuilnemi (n). rufianear. o luxuriar. 71m2-3r1-1 ahahuilnemiliztli. rufianeria o luxuria. 71m2-3r1-1 ayeccan. en mal tiempo o sazon, o lugar malo. aduerbio. 71m2-3v1-1 ayecyotl. maldad o malicia. 71m2-3v1-1 ayectiliztli. maldad o malicia. 71m2-3v1-1 ayectlachihua (n). hazer cosa mala. 71m2-3v1-1 ayectli. cosa mala. 71m2-3v1-1 apinahualiztica. desuergonzadamente. 71m2-7r1-1 apinahualiztli. desuerguenza. 71m2-7r1-1 apinahuani. desuergonzado. 71m2-7r1-1 apinahuani cihuatl. muger desonesta. 71m2-7r1-1 acualcan. lugar indecente y malo. 71m2-7r1-2 acuallachihua (n). hazer alguna cosa mala. 71m2-7r1-2 acuallachihualiztica. con malas obras. 71m2-7r1-2 acuallachihualiztli. obras malas. 71m2-7r1-2 acuallachihualli. obras mal hechas. 71m2-7r1-2 acuallachihuani. mal hechor. 71m2-7r1-2 acuallatolli. palabras malas. 71m2-7r1-2 acualli. cosa mala. 71m2-7r1-2 chicahualiztli (acualli ipan ne-invert.2). obstinacion o perseuerancia enel mal. 71m2-7r1-2 acuallotl. maldad o malicia. 71m2-7r2-2 acualtiliztli. maldad o malicia. 71m2-7r2-2 acualtin. malos. 71m2-7r2-2 aquetzca cihuatl. muger desonesta y sin verguenza. 71m2-7r2-2 aquixtilpilli. incorregible. 71m2-7v1-2 atlacanemi. hombre desconcertado dissoluto y vicioso. 71m2-8r1-2 atlacanemiliztli. dissolucion tal. 71m2-8r1-2 atlacatl. marinero, o mal hombre. 71m2-8r1-2 atlacualitolli. persona de ruyn fama. 71m2-8r2-2 ahuilihui (n). apocarse con los vicios. 71m2-9v2-2 ahuililama. vieja. luxuriosa y mala muger. 71m2-9v2-2 ahuilhuehue. viejo luxurioso rufian. 71m2-9v2-2 ahuilnemiliztli. vida carnal o luxuriosa. 71m2-9v2-2 ahuilnenqui. persona carnal y luxuriosa. 71m2-9v2-2 ahuiltelpocati (n). rufianear o luxuriar. 71m2-9v2-2 ahuiltelpochti (n). rufianear o luxuriar. 71m2-9v2-2 ahuiltelpochtontli. mozo rufianejo. 71m2-9v2-2 iuh nenti inchichixtiuh noyollo (zan -invert.2). hazerse poco apoco, o sin aduertir de mala condicion, y de amargo corazon. 71m2-14v1-3 cecemotli. persona de mala fama. metaphora. 71m2-15r2-3 cecentianquiztli. el que en todas partes tiene ruyn fama. 71m2-15v1-3 cenquizca tlahueliloc. hombre peruerso ymaluado. 71m2-17v1-3 centzonteti (ni). endurecerse o obstinarse. 71m2-18r2-3 chauhnecocoya (ni). estar endemoniado. 71m2-19r2-4 chicoyauh (ni). apartarse dela virtud. 71m2-20r2-4 chicoyolloani. hombre sospechoso y malicioso. 71m2-20r2-4 chicoquiza (ni). apartarse dela virtud. 71m2-20v1-4 cihuacuecuech. muger deshonesta y desuergonzada. 71m2-22v1-4 cihuatlahueliloc. hombre dado a mugeres, o mala muger. 71m2-22v2-4 cuecuetz. trauiesso y desuergonzado. 71m2-25v2-5 yeyeloac (ica-invert.2). hombre de mala fama. 71m2-31v2-6 nemi (in ica -invert.2). sensual y vicioso. 71m2-38v2-7 yollocuepa (nite). peruertir a otro. 71m2-40r2-7 yollo malacachilhuia (nicte). peruertir algo aotro. 71m2-40r2-7 yollotepitztlacuactia (ni). endurecerse y obstinarse. 71m2-40v1-7 yollotepitztlacuactiliztli. endurecimiento assi. 71m2-40v2-7 yollotepoztia (ni). endurecerse y obstinarse. 71m2-40v2-7 yollotequizaliztli. dureza y obstinacion assi. 71m2-40v2-7 yolloteti (ni). endurecerse perseuerando enel mal. 71m2-40v2-7 yollotetia (ni). endurecerse perseuerando enel mal. 71m2-40v2-7 yollotetilia (nite). endurecer y obstinar a otro assi. 71m2-40v2-7 yollotetiliztica. obstinadamente, o animosa y esforzadamente. 71m2-40v2-7 yollotetiliztli. endurecimiento y obstinacion, o animosidad y esfuerzo. 71m2-40v2-7 yollotetl. constante y animoso, o duro y obstinado. 71m2-40v2-7 yollotlacuactia (ni). endurecerse y obstinarse enel mal. 71m2-40v2-7 yollotlacuactiliztli. dureza assi. 71m2-40v2-7 yollotlacuahua (ni). endurecerse desta manera. 71m2-40v2-7 yollotlacuahua (nite). endurecer a otro. 71m2-40v2-7 yollotlacuahuac. endurecido desta manera. 71m2-40v2-7 yollotlacuahualiztica. obstinadamenteassi. 71m2-40v2-7 yollotlacuahualiztli. endurecimiento tal. 71m2-40v2-7 tequiz iyollo (iuhquin o-invert.2). endurecido de corazon. 71m2-43v2-8 tetl iyollo (iuhquin-invert.2). duro de corazon. 71m2-43v2-8 cuepa iyollo (iuhquin tetl mo-invert.1). obstinarse y endurecerse. 71m2-43v2-8 ixmaxalihui (n). dexar la buena costumbre. 71m2-46r1-8 macicahuia innitlatlacoani (nic). ser consumado en maldad. 71m2-50v2-9 maxiltia (nic). estar lleno de suziedad, o de maldad. 71m2-54v2-9 yollotetiliztli (ne-invert.2). endurecimiento de corazon, o proteruia. 71m2-66r2-11 nemilizitlacahuiliztli. corrupcion de costumbres. 71m2-67r2-12 catcapol (nican ni-invert.2). aqui estoy yo pecador o miserable. 71m2-71v2-12 catpolotica (nican ni-invert.2). aqui estoy yo pecador o miserable. 71m2-71v2-12 macicahuia nitlatlacoani (nic-invert.1). ser fino oconsumado pecador. 71m2-71v2-12 tlachixtinemi (nohuiampa-invert.2). muger desonesta que no guarda la vista. 71m2-74r2-13 ocholo iyollo. disoluta muger. 71m2-75r2-13 onicmac cahui innitlatlacoani. ser consumado y gran pecador. 71m2-77r2-13 pilchihua (nitla). pecar o hazer algun defecto. 71m2-81v1-14 cuachicuia (nitla). ser disoluto y desuergonzado. 71m2-84r1-14 quixcahuia inacayo. persona viciosa y carnal. 71m2-90v1-15 centlahueliltiliztli (te-invert.2). manera de biuir, o vida mala y pessima delos pecadores. 71m2-92r2-16 ichtacatlaxtlahuiani (te-invert.2). cohechador de juez. 71m2-94r2-16 ichtacatlaxtlahuiliztli (te-invert.2). cohecho. 71m2-94r2-16 yolcuepaliztica (te-invert.2). peruertidamente, o peruertiendo a otros, y trastornandoles el juyzio. 71m2-94v2-16 yolcuepaliztli (te-invert.2). peruertimiento assi. 71m2-94v2-16 yollotlahuelilocatililiztli (te-invert.2). inficionamiento del que inficiona y peruierte a otro. 71m2-95r2-16 yolmalacacho (te-invert.2). cosa que peruierte y desatina a otro. 71m2-95r2-16 yolmalacachoani (te-invert.2). cosa que peruierte y desatina a otro. 71m2-95r2-16 yolmalacacholiztica (te-invert.2). peruertiendo y desatinan do a otros. 71m2-95r2-16 yolmalacacholiztli (te-invert.2). peruertimiento tal. 71m2-95r2-16 telpochtlahueliloc. rufian, o mozo carnal. 71m2-96v1-16 telpochtlahuelilocati (ni). rufianear, o biuir carnalmente. 71m2-96v1-16 tencuauhxolotl. hombre de mala lengua. 71m2-99v1-17 tencuahuitl. hombre de mala lengua. 71m2-99v1-17 tlahuelilocacuitiani (te-invert.2). el que inficiona y haze malo a otro. 71m2-110r1-19 tlahuelilocacuitiliztli (te-invert.2). el acto de inficionar y da�ar a otros, o de hazerlos malos y peruersos. 71m2-110r1-19 tlahuelilocamaquiliztli (te-invert.2). el acto de inficionar y da�ar a otros, o de hazerlos malos y peruersos o peruertimiento. 71m2-110r1-19 tlahuelilocamatilizotl (te-invert.2). infamia, o mala opinion que se tiene de alguno. 71m2-110r1-19 tlahuelilocatiliztli (te-invert.2). . 71m2-110-4-01-19 tlahuelilocatocani (te-invert.2). el que tiene mala opinion de otros. 71m2-110r2-19 tetzauhtlatlacoani. criminosa persona. 71m2-111r2-19 tetzauhtlatlacole. criminosa persona. 71m2-111r2-19 tetzauhtlatlacolli. pecado, o maldad grande y abominable. 71m2-111r2-19 tetzauhtlatlacoltica. criminalmente. 71m2-111r2-19 teuhtli tlazolli ic milacatzotinemi. el que biue mal y viciosamente. 71m2-111v2-19 teuhtli tlazolli nicololotinemi. biuir viciosamente. 71m2-111v2-19 tlacaahuilhuia (nite). peruertir y malear a otro. 71m2-114v2-19 tlacamiccatilia (nite). peruertir o malear a otro. 71m2-115v1-20 zolteocihuatl (tla-invert.2). muger diabolica y peruersa. 71m2-118v2-20 tlaellatolli. palabras desonestas y suzias. 71m2-120r2-20 tlaellaquetza (ni). dezir chistes, o consejuelas desonestas y muchas. 71m2-120r2-20 tlaelpaqui (ni). deleytarse con suzio deleyte. 71m2-120v1-21 tlaelpaquiliztica. con suzio o carnal deleyte. 71m2-120v1-21 tlaelpaquiliztli. suzio o carnal deleite. 71m2-120v1-21 tlaelpaquini. carnal persona. s. luxuriosa. 71m2-120v1-21 tlailpaqui (ni). . 71m2-121v2-21 tlailpaquiliztli. . 71m2-121v2-21 yollomachtli (tla-invert.2). persona notada de alguna falta, o vicio. 71m2-122r1-21 yollotlahuelilocatililli (tla-invert.2). maleado, o enloquecido de otros, por ledar priesa para tornarle loco. 71m2-122r1-21 yolmalacacholli (tla-invert.2). maleado, o enloquecido de otros, por ledar priesa para tornarle loco. 71m2-122r1-21 tlaneuhtia (nino). puta�ear la muger. 71m2-128v1-22 tlanehuia (ninote). puta�ear el varon. 71m2-128v2-22 pilchihualiztli (tla-invert.2). defecto, cosa malhecha, o pecado. s. el acto de pecar. 71m2-132r1-22 pilchihualli (tla-invert.2). pecado, o defecto. 71m2-132r1-22 pilchihuani (tla-invert.2). defectuoso, o pecador. 71m2-132r1-22 pilchiuhqui (tla-invert.2). defectuoso, o pecador. 71m2-132r1-22 pilchiuhtli (tla-invert.2). cosa malhecha, o culpa cometida. 71m2-132r1-22 tlatlacamiccati (ni). obstinarse y perseuerar enel mal, o tornarse loco y desatinado. 71m2-136v2-23 [i]tlacoa (nitla-invert.1). pecar, hazer mal, o da�ar yechar aperder alguna cosa. 71m2-137r1-23 [i]tlacoani (tla-invert.2). pecador tal. 71m2-137r1-23 [i]tlacoaniyetoca (ninotla-invert.1). tenerse por pecador. 71m2-137r1-23 [i]tlacoanime (tla-invert.2). pecadores. 71m2-137r1-23 [i]tlacoanitoca (nitetla-invert.1). tener alos otros por pecadores. 71m2-137r1-23 tlacolcecualoliztli (tla-invert.2). elada, o frialdad de pecados. 71m2-137r2-23 tlacolcehuapahualiztli (tla-invert.2). elada, o frialdad de pecados. 71m2-137r2-23 tlacolcocoliztli (tla-invert.2). enfermedad y pestilencia de pecados. 71m2-137r2-23 tlacolcuitia (nitetla-invert.1). hazer pecar a otro. 71m2-137r2-23 [i]tlacolitztiliztli (tla-invert.2). frialdad de pecados. 71m2-137r2-23 [i]tlacollaza (ninotla-invert.1). descargarse delos pecados enla confession sacramental. 71m2-137r2-23 [i]tlacolli (tla-invert.2). pecado, culpa, o defecto. 71m2-137r2-23 [i]tlacolli ipololoca (tla-invert.2). perdon, o remission de pecados. 71m2-137r2-23 tlacolmachilia (nitetla-invert.1). saber los pecados agenos. 71m2-137r2-23 tlacolnextia (nitetla-invert.1). descubrir, o manifestar pecados agenos. 71m2-137r2-23 tlacolnexxotla (nitetla-invert.1). descubrir, o manifestar pecados agenos. 71m2-137r2-23 tlacolohuitilia (nitetla-invert.1). poner a otro en peligro, o dificultad, con algun pecado que le hizo cometer. 71m2-137r2-23 tlacolpan (tla-invert.2). en pecado, o en pecados. 71m2-137r2-23 tlacolpan ni-nemi (tla-invert.1). biuir en pecado. 71m2-137r2-23 tlacolpan nite-tlaza (tla-invert.1). hazer caer a otro en pecado. 71m2-137r2-23 tlacolpantlaza (nitetla-invert.1). descubrir pecados agenos o hazer que alguno cayga en ellos. 71m2-137r2-23 tlacolpehualiztli (tla-invert.2). pecado original. 71m2-137r2-23 tlacolpeuhcayotl (tla-invert.2). pecado original. 71m2-137r2-23 tlacolpolihuiliztli (tla-invert.2). remission o perdon de pecados. 71m2-137r2-23 tlacolpopolhuia (nitetla-invert.1). perdonar, o absoluer delos pecados. 71m2-137r2-23 tlacoltitlan (tla-invert.2). entre los pecados. 71m2-137v1-23 tlacoltoma (ninotla-invert.1). desatarse o librarse delos pecados por la contricion, o confession sacramental. 71m2-137v1-23 tlacoltzintiliztli (tla-invert.2). pecado original, o comienzo de pecados. 71m2-137v1-23 tlayellatoa (nitla-invert.1). hablar cosas desonestas y suzias. 71m2-137v1-23 tlatlacoltomaliztli (tla-invert.2). absolucion, o desatamiento de pecados. 71m2-139r2-24 tlatlacoltomalli (tla-invert.2). absuelto y desatado depecados. 71m2-139r2-24 tlatlahuelilocati. el que se haze vellaco. 71m2-140r1-24 tlatlahuelilocatini. el que se haze vellaco. 71m2-140r1-24 tlatlahuelilocatilia. el que haze vellacos alos otros. 71m2-140r1-24 tlatlahuelilocatiliani. el que haze vellacos alos otros. 71m2-140r1-24 tlahueliloc. maluado, o vellaco. 71m2-144r2-25 tlahuelilocaaquilia (nite huel nitla). meter mal entre otros, reboluiendolos, o peruertiendolos. 71m2-144r2-25 tlahuelilocacuitia (nitla). . 71m2-144r2-25 tlahuelilocacuitia (nite). . 71m2-144r2-25 tlahuelilocacuitia (nino). peruertirse y hazerse malo. 71m2-144r2-25 tlahuelilo cacuitilli. peruertido y maleado de otros. 71m2-144r2-25 tlahuelilocayotica. peruersa y maliciosamente. 71m2-144r2-25 tlahuelilocayotl. maldad, o vellaqueria. 71m2-144r2-25 tlahuelilocaitoa (nite). hablar, o dezir defectos, o maldades agenas. 71m2-144r2-25 tlahuelilocamaca (nite). malear, o peruertir a otro. 71m2-144r2-25 tlahuelilocamaca (nino). malearse, o hazerse vellaco. 71m2-144r2-25 tlahuelilocamactli. maleado y peruertido de otros. 71m2-144r2-25 tlahuelilocamati (nite). tener a otro por ruin y vellaco. 71m2-144r2-25 tlahuelilocanemi (ni). andar hecho vellaco y perdido. 71m2-144r2-25 tlahuelilocanemiliztli. vida vellaca y peruersa. 71m2-144r2-25 tlahuelilocapo (no). vellaco como yo, o tan peruerso y malo como yo. 71m2-144r2-25 tlahuelilocati (ni). hazerse malo y vellaco. 71m2-144r2-25 tlahuelilocayotl. maldad, vellaqueria o malicia. 71m2-144r2-25 tlahuelilocatilia (nino). hazerse malo y vellaco. 71m2-144r2-25 tlahuelilocatilia (nite). hazer vellaco a otro, operuertillo. 71m2-144r2-25 tlahuelilocatilia (nitla). peruertir y malear a los otros. 71m2-144r2-25 tlahuelilocatililli. maleado y peruertido de otros. 71m2-144v1-25 tlahuelilocatlapiquia (nite). leuantar a otro que es malo y vellaco. 71m2-144v1-25 tlahuelilocatlatoa (ni). hablar mal, o dezir malicias, o hablar como vellaco y maluado. 71m2-144v1-25 tlahuelilocatoca (nite). tener a otro por ruyn y vellaco. 71m2-144v1-25 tlahuelilocattitinemi (ni). andar perdido y hecho vellaco. 71m2-144v1-25 From LaVoz at Aztlan.Net Tue May 22 20:55:31 2001 From: LaVoz at Aztlan.Net (La Voz de Aztlan) Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 13:55:31 -0700 Subject: "La Ley Azteca" - Re: homosexualidad y lesbianismo In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Nahuat-l list members: "La Ley Azteca" mandated the following punishment for homosexuality and lesbianism: - Homosexualidad, empalamiento para el sujeto activo; extracción de las entrañas, por el orificio anal, para el sujeto pasivo - Lesbianismo, muerte por garrote, Does anyone know if similar or less Draconian measures were employed by North American Indigenous groups before the arrival of Europeans? Respectfully, La Voz de Aztlan http://www.aztlan.net From IXTLIL at aol.com Wed May 23 02:01:22 2001 From: IXTLIL at aol.com (IXTLIL at aol.com) Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 22:01:22 EDT Subject: "La Ley Azteca" - Re: homosexualidad y lesbianismo Message-ID: "Do you or anyone else on the list know of any modern studies on the subject?" the easiest way to begin to look into this field ("Aztec" law in general) is through this link at the Tarlton Law Library at the University of Texas. Not all the books listed on this page are of equal value. http://www.law.utexas.edu/rare/aztec.htm jerry offner -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From micc at home.com Wed May 23 03:42:29 2001 From: micc at home.com (micc) Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 20:42:29 -0700 Subject: "La Ley Azteca" - Re: homosexualidad y lesbianismo Message-ID: Just a note: The requester of this "info" is a member of a homophobic, racist organization: http://www.aztlan.net/leyazteca.htm http://www.aztlan.net/drinko.htm "r. joe campbell" wrote: > I checked Molina's 1571 Nahuatl-Spanish dictionary and found the > material below. > > Best regards, > > Joe > > "sinful, hard of heart, evil, debauched, bad reputation" follows ******** > > bai *** sexual intercourse > > ahuiani. puta, o mala muger. 71m2-9v1-2 > ahuianiti (n). ser puta. 71m2-9v1-2 > ahuiani calli. burdel, o puteria. 71m2-9v1-2 > cihuanotzani (cenca-invert.2). desainado, porse dar mucho a mugeres. > 71m2-17r1-3 > centecpanhuia (nite). dar botin a muger s. echarse muchos con ella. > 71m2-17v1-3 > chahuacocoya. estar afligida la muger porque su marido esta amancebado, o > por tener alguna grave enfermedad. 71m2-19r2-4 > chauh (no). mi combleza. 71m2-19r2-4 > cihuayo. persona que se sirue de mugeres. 71m2-22v1-4 > cihuaihuinti. hombre dado a mugeres. 71m2-22v1-4 > cihuatlahuelilocati (ni). darse mucho a mugeres. 71m2-22v2-4 > cihuatlahuicale. persona que tiene seruicio de mugeres. 71m2-22v2-4 > cochuia (nite). hazerlo ala muger que esta durmiendo. 71m2-23v1-4 > coyoquetza (nite). tomarse como brutos animales. 71m2-24r1-4 > cui (nic). tomar algo, o tener parte el hombre con la muger. 71m2-26v1-5 > cuicui (nic). tener parte el hombre con la muger. 71m2-26v2-5 > cuilonyotl. pecado nefando, de hombre con hombre. 71m2-26v2-5 > cuilontia (nite). cometer pecado nefando. 71m2-26v2-5 > icza (mo). tomarse las aues. 71m2-32r1-6 > yecoa (nite). hazerlo ael, o aella. 71m2-34v2-6 > yomoni. bullir los gusanos, o piojos, pulgas, hormigas, o cosas > semejantes, o dar mucha comezon los granos o la sarna, o tener gran > encendimiento dela carne los mozos omozas luxuriosas. 71m2-41r2-7 > aci (itech n-invert.1). tener parte con alguna muger. 71m2-42r2-7 > itetia (nite). empre¤ar el varon ala muger. 71m2-42v2-7 > itlacoa (nin). enfermar por se dar mucho a mugeres. 71m2-43r1-7 > itlan nicochi. dormir con muger. 71m2-43r2-8 > yoli. cosa biua, o alterarse el miembro. 71m2-44r2-8 > yolitia (nic). alterar el miembro. 71m2-44r2-8 > maahuiltia. ramera. 71m2-50r1-9 > maahuiltiani. puta honesta. 71m2-50r1-9 > mahahuiltia. puta honesta. 71m2-51r2-9 > maxaloa (nic). hazer traycion el casado a su muger, teniendo parte con > otra, o ella a el cometiendo adulterio. 71m2-54v2-9 > mecatia (nino). amancebarse. o proueerse de cordeles. 71m2-55r1-9 > mictia (nitla). ser impotente para engendrar, o sacrificar ante los idolos > matando algo. 71m2-56r2-10 > [i]cza (mo-invert.1). tomarse las aues. 71m2-57v1-10 > cihuahuiqui (mo). desainado por se auer dado mucho a mugeres. > 71m2-57v2-10 > mecati (mo). amancebado. 71m2-58v2-10 > mecatiani (mo). amancebado. 71m2-58v2-10 > cuauhquetza (mo-invert.1). alterarse o alzarse el miembro. 71m2-059v2-10 > quetza (mo). tomarse las animalias. 71m2-059v2-10 > quequeza (mo). tomarse las aues. 71m2-059v2-10 > quetzallani (mo-invert.1). estar cachonda la perra. &c. 71m2-060r1-10 > quetztlani (mo-invert.1). estar cochonda la perra. &c. 71m2-060r1-10 > tetlaneuhtiani (mo). puta del burdel. 71m2-060r2-10 > tetlanehuiani (mo). puta¤ero. 71m2-060r2-10 > tetzincohuiani (mo). puta¤ero. 71m2-060r2-10 > tzinnamacani (mo). puta del burdel. 71m2-061r1-10 > cihuahuiliztli (ne-invert.2). enfermedad causada por se auer dado mucho a > mugeres. 71m2-65r1-11 > mecatiliztica (ne-invert.2). con amancebamiento. 71m2-67r2-11 > mecatiliztli (ne-invert.2). amancebamiento. 71m2-67r2-11 > nepanoliztli (ne-invert.2). copula, o ayuntamiento carnal. 71m2-68r1-12 > nepanoa (nite). tener parte con muger, o meterse entre otros. > 71m2-68v2-12 > patlachhuiliztli (ne-invert.2). el acto de hazerlo la vna ala otra, > pecando contra natura. 71m2-69r1-12 > tlaneuhtilizcalli (ne-invert.2). burdel o casa de malas mugeres. > 71m2-70v1-12 > tlaneuhtiloyan (ne-invert.2). burdel o casa de malas mugeres. > 71m2-70v1-12 > tzincohuiloyan (ne-invert.2). burdel. 71m2-71r1-12 > tzinnamacoyan (ne-invert.2). burdel. 71m2-71r1-12 > noquicho. mi simiente. 71m2-73v2-13 > occhalchihuitl. es aun donzella y virgen. metaphora. 71m2-75r1-13 > ocmacitinemi. donzella virgen y entera. 71m2-75r2-13 > ocmotquitinemi. virgen entera. 71m2-75v1-13 > huel ichpochtli (oc -invert.2). virgen que esta aun entera. 71m2-75v2-13 > otlamicti. hombre impotente para engendrar. 71m2-78r1-13 > patlachhuia (nite). hazerlo vna muger a otra. 71m2-80r2-14 > cuauhtilia (nitla). arrechar o alterar el miembro. 71m2-87r1-15 > cuauhtlaza (nite). echarse muchos convna muger o dar botin. 71m2-87r1-15 > quequeza (mo). tomarse las aues para engendrar. 71m2-89r1-15 > quetza (nite). detener, o hazer parar alque camina o hazer leuantar alque > esta asentado, o hazerlo el perro ala perra, o el cauallo ala yegua. > 71m2-89r2-15 > cochhuia (nite-invert.1). tener parte conla muger que esta durmiendo. > 71m2-92v2-16 > cuilonti (te-invert.2). el que lo haze a otro, pecando contra natura. > 71m2-93v1-16 > cuilontiani (te-invert.2). el que lo haze a otro, pecando contra natura. > 71m2-93v1-16 > cuilontiliztli (te-invert.2). el acto del que comete este pecado. > 71m2-93v1-16 > teichtacamecauh. manceba de soltero. 71m2-94r2-16 > ixelehuiani (te-invert.2). cobdiciador de mugeres, o cobdiciadora de > varones. 71m2-95v2-16 > ixelehuiliztica (te-invert.2). cobdiciando mugeres. &c. 71m2-95v2-16 > ixelehuiliztli (te-invert.2). cobdicia tal. 71m2-95v2-16 > temecauh. manceba de soltero. 71m2-98r1-16 > yani (tepan -invert.2). adultero. 71m2-102r1-17 > yaqui (tepan -invert.2). adultero. 71m2-102r1-17 > yauh (tepan ni-invert.1). cometer adulterio. 71m2-102r1-17 > teca (nite-invert.1). echarse con alguna muger. 71m2-105v2-18 > tecaliztli (te-invert.2). el acto de echarse y tener parte con muger. > 71m2-106r1-18 > tecani (te-invert.2). el que se echa con muger. 71m2-106r1-18 > axiliztli (tetech-invert.2). el acto de tener parte, o ayuntamiento con > muger. 71m2-106r1-18 > aci (tetech n-invert.1). tener conuersacion y parte con muger. > 71m2-106r1-18 > tlamia (tetech nino-invert.1). infamar a alguna persona diziendo que tuuo > parte conella, no siendo verdad. 71m2-106r2-18 > acqui (tetlan-invert.2). trama de tela, o el que quiere adulterar. > 71m2-108v2-18 > nahualnochili (tetla-invert.2). alcahuete, o alcahueta. 71m2-108v2-18 > nahualnochiliani (tetla-invert.2). alcahuete, o alcahueta. 71m2-108v2-18 > nahualnochililiztli (tetla-invert.2). alcahueteria. 71m2-108v2-18 > nahualnochiliqui (tetla-invert.2). alcahuete, o alcahueta. 71m2-108v2-18 > nanahuatiliqui (tetla-invert.2). alcahuete, o alcahueta. 71m2-108v2-18 > nahuatili (tetla-invert.2). alcahuete, o alcahueta. 71m2-108v2-18 > nahuatililiztli (tetla-invert.2). alcahueteria. 71m2-108v2-18 > aqui (tetlan n-invert.1). echarse, o tener parte conla que esta durmiendo. > 71m2-108v2-18 > nochili (tetla-invert.2). alcahuete, o alcahueta. 71m2-109r1-18 > nochiliani (tetla-invert.2). alcahuete, o alcahueta. 71m2-109r1-18 > nochililiztli (tetla-invert.2). alcahueteria. 71m2-109r1-18 > nochiliqui (tetla-invert.2). alcahuete. 71m2-109r1-18 > ximaliztica (tetla-invert.2). adulterando, o cometiendo adulterio. > 71m2-110r2-19 > ximaliztli (tetla-invert.2). adulterio. 71m2-110r2-19 > ximani (tetla-invert.2). adultero. 71m2-110r2-19 > xinqui (tetla-invert.2). adultero. 71m2-110r2-19 > tetzacayotl. esterilidad delos que son esteriles y no engendran hijos. > 71m2-110v2-19 > tetzacati (ni). hazerse esteril. 71m2-110v2-19 > tetzacatilia (nite). hazer esteril a alguna. 71m2-110v2-19 > tetzacatl. esteril, que no tiene hijos. 71m2-110v2-19 > tetzicayotl. esterilidad delos que no engendran. 71m2-111r2-19 > tetzicati. hazerse esteril assi. 71m2-111r2-19 > tetzicatl. esteril, que no engendra hijos. 71m2-111r2-19 > tzintzayanaliztli (te-invert.2). corrompimiento de virgen. s. el acto de > corromperla, lastimandola mucho. 71m2-111v1-19 > tzintzayanani (te-invert.2). corrompedor tal. 71m2-111v1-19 > xapotlaliztli (te-invert.2). corrompimiento, o desfloracion de virgen. > 71m2-112r2-19 > xapotlani (te-invert.2). corrompedor de virgen. 71m2-112r2-19 > tilinia (nite). asir de alguna para tener parte conella. 71m2-113r2-19 > tixpampa quiza. simiente de muger. &c. 71m2-113v2-19 > tixpampa huetzi. simiente de muger. &c. 71m2-113v2-19 > tlacaxinachtli. simiente devaron o de muger. 71m2-116r1-20 > ihiani (tla-invert.2). asqueroso y aborrecedor dela comida, o dela muger. > &c. 71m2-121v1-21 > mictiliztli (tla-invert.2). impotencia del varon, que no puede tener parte > con muger. 71m2-126v2-22 > tlaneuhtia (nino). puta¤ear la muger. 71m2-128v1-22 > tlacuauhtilia (ni). arrechar o leuantar el miembro. 71m2-133v2-23 > tlacuauhtiliani. el que assi leuanta el miembro. 71m2-133v2-23 > tlacuauhtilliliztli [sic]. el acto de arrechar. 71m2-133v2-23 > quequezaliztli (tla-invert.2). el acto de pisar o recalcar algo, o el acto > de tomar el gallo ala gallina. 71m2-134r1-23 > quequezani (tla-invert.2). recalcador, pisador, o pateador, o gallo que > toma ala gallina. 71m2-134r1-23 > tlaxintli (tla-invert.2). cornudo. s. al que han hecho adulterio. > 71m2-140r1-24 > tlatoca. el que anda sembrando o siembra semillas, o el que va al burdel, > o el que continua la casa de su manceba o amiga. 71m2-140v1-24 > xapotlalli (tla-invert.2). cosa agujerada, o horadada, o virgen > corrompida. 71m2-145v1-25 > xima (nitetla-invert.1). adulterar. 71m2-146r1-25 > xochihuilli (tla-invert.2). muger encantada y lleuada por ay adelante. > 71m2-146v1-25 > tocihuayo. simiente de muger. 71m2-148v1-25 > totomicqui. varon impotente para engendrar. 71m2-150v2-26 > totomiquiliztli. impotencia de varon para engendrar. 71m2-150v2-26 > tzimmicqui. varon impotente para engendrar. 71m2-152r2-26 > tzincohuia (ninote). puta¤ear el varon pagando ala dama. 71m2-152r2-26 > tzinnamaca (nino). venderla muger su cuerpo. 71m2-152v1-26 > tzinnamaca (nite). alcahuetear. 71m2-152v1-26 > tzinquetza (nite). tener parte y tomarse el varon y la muger, amanera de > brutos. 71m2-152v1-26 > tzinquetza (nino). ponerse la muger amanera de perra o de otro animal, > paraque el varon tenga parte con ella. 71m2-152v1-26 > huel ichpochotl. virginidad entera. 71m2-156r1-26 > xapotla (nite). desflorar o corromper virgen. 71m2-158v1-27 > xinachoa (nino). asementarse. 71m2-159r2-27 > > ************ > > > > cccb *** sinful, hard of heart, evil, debauched, bad reputation > > achihualiztli. cosa ilicita que no se deue hazer. 71m2-2r2-1 > achihualoni. cosa ilicita que no se deue hazer. 71m2-2r2-1 > ahahuilnemi (n). rufianear. o luxuriar. 71m2-3r1-1 > ahahuilnemiliztli. rufianeria o luxuria. 71m2-3r1-1 > ayeccan. en mal tiempo o sazon, o lugar malo. aduerbio. 71m2-3v1-1 > ayecyotl. maldad o malicia. 71m2-3v1-1 > ayectiliztli. maldad o malicia. 71m2-3v1-1 > ayectlachihua (n). hazer cosa mala. 71m2-3v1-1 > ayectli. cosa mala. 71m2-3v1-1 > apinahualiztica. desuergonzadamente. 71m2-7r1-1 > apinahualiztli. desuerguenza. 71m2-7r1-1 > apinahuani. desuergonzado. 71m2-7r1-1 > apinahuani cihuatl. muger desonesta. 71m2-7r1-1 > acualcan. lugar indecente y malo. 71m2-7r1-2 > acuallachihua (n). hazer alguna cosa mala. 71m2-7r1-2 > acuallachihualiztica. con malas obras. 71m2-7r1-2 > acuallachihualiztli. obras malas. 71m2-7r1-2 > acuallachihualli. obras mal hechas. 71m2-7r1-2 > acuallachihuani. mal hechor. 71m2-7r1-2 > acuallatolli. palabras malas. 71m2-7r1-2 > acualli. cosa mala. 71m2-7r1-2 > chicahualiztli (acualli ipan ne-invert.2). obstinacion o perseuerancia > enel mal. 71m2-7r1-2 > acuallotl. maldad o malicia. 71m2-7r2-2 > acualtiliztli. maldad o malicia. 71m2-7r2-2 > acualtin. malos. 71m2-7r2-2 > aquetzca cihuatl. muger desonesta y sin verguenza. 71m2-7r2-2 > aquixtilpilli. incorregible. 71m2-7v1-2 > atlacanemi. hombre desconcertado dissoluto y vicioso. 71m2-8r1-2 > atlacanemiliztli. dissolucion tal. 71m2-8r1-2 > atlacatl. marinero, o mal hombre. 71m2-8r1-2 > atlacualitolli. persona de ruyn fama. 71m2-8r2-2 > ahuilihui (n). apocarse con los vicios. 71m2-9v2-2 > ahuililama. vieja. luxuriosa y mala muger. 71m2-9v2-2 > ahuilhuehue. viejo luxurioso rufian. 71m2-9v2-2 > ahuilnemiliztli. vida carnal o luxuriosa. 71m2-9v2-2 > ahuilnenqui. persona carnal y luxuriosa. 71m2-9v2-2 > ahuiltelpocati (n). rufianear o luxuriar. 71m2-9v2-2 > ahuiltelpochti (n). rufianear o luxuriar. 71m2-9v2-2 > ahuiltelpochtontli. mozo rufianejo. 71m2-9v2-2 > iuh nenti inchichixtiuh noyollo (zan -invert.2). hazerse poco apoco, o sin > aduertir de mala condicion, y de amargo corazon. 71m2-14v1-3 > cecemotli. persona de mala fama. metaphora. 71m2-15r2-3 > cecentianquiztli. el que en todas partes tiene ruyn fama. 71m2-15v1-3 > cenquizca tlahueliloc. hombre peruerso ymaluado. 71m2-17v1-3 > centzonteti (ni). endurecerse o obstinarse. 71m2-18r2-3 > chauhnecocoya (ni). estar endemoniado. 71m2-19r2-4 > chicoyauh (ni). apartarse dela virtud. 71m2-20r2-4 > chicoyolloani. hombre sospechoso y malicioso. 71m2-20r2-4 > chicoquiza (ni). apartarse dela virtud. 71m2-20v1-4 > cihuacuecuech. muger deshonesta y desuergonzada. 71m2-22v1-4 > cihuatlahueliloc. hombre dado a mugeres, o mala muger. 71m2-22v2-4 > cuecuetz. trauiesso y desuergonzado. 71m2-25v2-5 > yeyeloac (ica-invert.2). hombre de mala fama. 71m2-31v2-6 > nemi (in ica -invert.2). sensual y vicioso. 71m2-38v2-7 > yollocuepa (nite). peruertir a otro. 71m2-40r2-7 > yollo malacachilhuia (nicte). peruertir algo aotro. 71m2-40r2-7 > yollotepitztlacuactia (ni). endurecerse y obstinarse. 71m2-40v1-7 > yollotepitztlacuactiliztli. endurecimiento assi. 71m2-40v2-7 > yollotepoztia (ni). endurecerse y obstinarse. 71m2-40v2-7 > yollotequizaliztli. dureza y obstinacion assi. 71m2-40v2-7 > yolloteti (ni). endurecerse perseuerando enel mal. 71m2-40v2-7 > yollotetia (ni). endurecerse perseuerando enel mal. 71m2-40v2-7 > yollotetilia (nite). endurecer y obstinar a otro assi. 71m2-40v2-7 > yollotetiliztica. obstinadamente, o animosa y esforzadamente. > 71m2-40v2-7 > yollotetiliztli. endurecimiento y obstinacion, o animosidad y esfuerzo. > 71m2-40v2-7 > yollotetl. constante y animoso, o duro y obstinado. 71m2-40v2-7 > yollotlacuactia (ni). endurecerse y obstinarse enel mal. 71m2-40v2-7 > yollotlacuactiliztli. dureza assi. 71m2-40v2-7 > yollotlacuahua (ni). endurecerse desta manera. 71m2-40v2-7 > yollotlacuahua (nite). endurecer a otro. 71m2-40v2-7 > yollotlacuahuac. endurecido desta manera. 71m2-40v2-7 > yollotlacuahualiztica. obstinadamenteassi. 71m2-40v2-7 > yollotlacuahualiztli. endurecimiento tal. 71m2-40v2-7 > tequiz iyollo (iuhquin o-invert.2). endurecido de corazon. 71m2-43v2-8 > tetl iyollo (iuhquin-invert.2). duro de corazon. 71m2-43v2-8 > cuepa iyollo (iuhquin tetl mo-invert.1). obstinarse y endurecerse. > 71m2-43v2-8 > ixmaxalihui (n). dexar la buena costumbre. 71m2-46r1-8 > macicahuia innitlatlacoani (nic). ser consumado en maldad. 71m2-50v2-9 > maxiltia (nic). estar lleno de suziedad, o de maldad. 71m2-54v2-9 > yollotetiliztli (ne-invert.2). endurecimiento de corazon, o proteruia. > 71m2-66r2-11 > nemilizitlacahuiliztli. corrupcion de costumbres. 71m2-67r2-12 > catcapol (nican ni-invert.2). aqui estoy yo pecador o miserable. > 71m2-71v2-12 > catpolotica (nican ni-invert.2). aqui estoy yo pecador o miserable. > 71m2-71v2-12 > macicahuia nitlatlacoani (nic-invert.1). ser fino oconsumado pecador. > 71m2-71v2-12 > tlachixtinemi (nohuiampa-invert.2). muger desonesta que no guarda la > vista. 71m2-74r2-13 > ocholo iyollo. disoluta muger. 71m2-75r2-13 > onicmac cahui innitlatlacoani. ser consumado y gran pecador. > 71m2-77r2-13 > pilchihua (nitla). pecar o hazer algun defecto. 71m2-81v1-14 > cuachicuia (nitla). ser disoluto y desuergonzado. 71m2-84r1-14 > quixcahuia inacayo. persona viciosa y carnal. 71m2-90v1-15 > centlahueliltiliztli (te-invert.2). manera de biuir, o vida mala y pessima > delos pecadores. 71m2-92r2-16 > ichtacatlaxtlahuiani (te-invert.2). cohechador de juez. 71m2-94r2-16 > ichtacatlaxtlahuiliztli (te-invert.2). cohecho. 71m2-94r2-16 > yolcuepaliztica (te-invert.2). peruertidamente, o peruertiendo a otros, y > trastornandoles el juyzio. 71m2-94v2-16 > yolcuepaliztli (te-invert.2). peruertimiento assi. 71m2-94v2-16 > yollotlahuelilocatililiztli (te-invert.2). inficionamiento del que > inficiona y peruierte a otro. 71m2-95r2-16 > yolmalacacho (te-invert.2). cosa que peruierte y desatina a otro. > 71m2-95r2-16 > yolmalacachoani (te-invert.2). cosa que peruierte y desatina a otro. > 71m2-95r2-16 > yolmalacacholiztica (te-invert.2). peruertiendo y desatinan do a otros. > 71m2-95r2-16 > yolmalacacholiztli (te-invert.2). peruertimiento tal. 71m2-95r2-16 > telpochtlahueliloc. rufian, o mozo carnal. 71m2-96v1-16 > telpochtlahuelilocati (ni). rufianear, o biuir carnalmente. 71m2-96v1-16 > tencuauhxolotl. hombre de mala lengua. 71m2-99v1-17 > tencuahuitl. hombre de mala lengua. 71m2-99v1-17 > tlahuelilocacuitiani (te-invert.2). el que inficiona y haze malo a otro. > 71m2-110r1-19 > tlahuelilocacuitiliztli (te-invert.2). el acto de inficionar y da¤ar a > otros, o de hazerlos malos y peruersos. 71m2-110r1-19 > tlahuelilocamaquiliztli (te-invert.2). el acto de inficionar y da¤ar a > otros, o de hazerlos malos y peruersos o peruertimiento. 71m2-110r1-19 > tlahuelilocamatilizotl (te-invert.2). infamia, o mala opinion que se tiene > de alguno. 71m2-110r1-19 > tlahuelilocatiliztli (te-invert.2). tetlahuelilocacuitiliztli>. 71m2-110-4-01-19 > tlahuelilocatocani (te-invert.2). el que tiene mala opinion de otros. > 71m2-110r2-19 > tetzauhtlatlacoani. criminosa persona. 71m2-111r2-19 > tetzauhtlatlacole. criminosa persona. 71m2-111r2-19 > tetzauhtlatlacolli. pecado, o maldad grande y abominable. 71m2-111r2-19 > tetzauhtlatlacoltica. criminalmente. 71m2-111r2-19 > teuhtli tlazolli ic milacatzotinemi. el que biue mal y viciosamente. > 71m2-111v2-19 > teuhtli tlazolli nicololotinemi. biuir viciosamente. 71m2-111v2-19 > tlacaahuilhuia (nite). peruertir y malear a otro. 71m2-114v2-19 > tlacamiccatilia (nite). peruertir o malear a otro. 71m2-115v1-20 > zolteocihuatl (tla-invert.2). muger diabolica y peruersa. 71m2-118v2-20 > tlaellatolli. palabras desonestas y suzias. 71m2-120r2-20 > tlaellaquetza (ni). dezir chistes, o consejuelas desonestas y muchas. > 71m2-120r2-20 > tlaelpaqui (ni). deleytarse con suzio deleyte. 71m2-120v1-21 > tlaelpaquiliztica. con suzio o carnal deleyte. 71m2-120v1-21 > tlaelpaquiliztli. suzio o carnal deleite. 71m2-120v1-21 > tlaelpaquini. carnal persona. s. luxuriosa. 71m2-120v1-21 > tlailpaqui (ni). . 71m2-121v2-21 > tlailpaquiliztli. . 71m2-121v2-21 > yollomachtli (tla-invert.2). persona notada de alguna falta, o vicio. > 71m2-122r1-21 > yollotlahuelilocatililli (tla-invert.2). maleado, o enloquecido de otros, > por ledar priesa para tornarle loco. 71m2-122r1-21 > yolmalacacholli (tla-invert.2). maleado, o enloquecido de otros, por ledar > priesa para tornarle loco. 71m2-122r1-21 > tlaneuhtia (nino). puta¤ear la muger. 71m2-128v1-22 > tlanehuia (ninote). puta¤ear el varon. 71m2-128v2-22 > pilchihualiztli (tla-invert.2). defecto, cosa malhecha, o pecado. s. el > acto de pecar. 71m2-132r1-22 > pilchihualli (tla-invert.2). pecado, o defecto. 71m2-132r1-22 > pilchihuani (tla-invert.2). defectuoso, o pecador. 71m2-132r1-22 > pilchiuhqui (tla-invert.2). defectuoso, o pecador. 71m2-132r1-22 > pilchiuhtli (tla-invert.2). cosa malhecha, o culpa cometida. > 71m2-132r1-22 > tlatlacamiccati (ni). obstinarse y perseuerar enel mal, o tornarse loco y > desatinado. 71m2-136v2-23 > [i]tlacoa (nitla-invert.1). pecar, hazer mal, o da¤ar yechar aperder > alguna cosa. 71m2-137r1-23 > [i]tlacoani (tla-invert.2). pecador tal. 71m2-137r1-23 > [i]tlacoaniyetoca (ninotla-invert.1). tenerse por pecador. 71m2-137r1-23 > [i]tlacoanime (tla-invert.2). pecadores. 71m2-137r1-23 > [i]tlacoanitoca (nitetla-invert.1). tener alos otros por pecadores. > 71m2-137r1-23 > tlacolcecualoliztli (tla-invert.2). elada, o frialdad de pecados. > 71m2-137r2-23 > tlacolcehuapahualiztli (tla-invert.2). elada, o frialdad de pecados. > 71m2-137r2-23 > tlacolcocoliztli (tla-invert.2). enfermedad y pestilencia de pecados. > 71m2-137r2-23 > tlacolcuitia (nitetla-invert.1). hazer pecar a otro. 71m2-137r2-23 > [i]tlacolitztiliztli (tla-invert.2). frialdad de pecados. 71m2-137r2-23 > [i]tlacollaza (ninotla-invert.1). descargarse delos pecados enla > confession sacramental. 71m2-137r2-23 > [i]tlacolli (tla-invert.2). pecado, culpa, o defecto. 71m2-137r2-23 > [i]tlacolli ipololoca (tla-invert.2). perdon, o remission de pecados. > 71m2-137r2-23 > tlacolmachilia (nitetla-invert.1). saber los pecados agenos. > 71m2-137r2-23 > tlacolnextia (nitetla-invert.1). descubrir, o manifestar pecados agenos. > 71m2-137r2-23 > tlacolnexxotla (nitetla-invert.1). descubrir, o manifestar pecados agenos. > 71m2-137r2-23 > tlacolohuitilia (nitetla-invert.1). poner a otro en peligro, o dificultad, > con algun pecado que le hizo cometer. 71m2-137r2-23 > tlacolpan (tla-invert.2). en pecado, o en pecados. 71m2-137r2-23 > tlacolpan ni-nemi (tla-invert.1). biuir en pecado. 71m2-137r2-23 > tlacolpan nite-tlaza (tla-invert.1). hazer caer a otro en pecado. > 71m2-137r2-23 > tlacolpantlaza (nitetla-invert.1). descubrir pecados agenos o hazer que > alguno cayga en ellos. 71m2-137r2-23 > tlacolpehualiztli (tla-invert.2). pecado original. 71m2-137r2-23 > tlacolpeuhcayotl (tla-invert.2). pecado original. 71m2-137r2-23 > tlacolpolihuiliztli (tla-invert.2). remission o perdon de pecados. > 71m2-137r2-23 > tlacolpopolhuia (nitetla-invert.1). perdonar, o absoluer delos pecados. > 71m2-137r2-23 > tlacoltitlan (tla-invert.2). entre los pecados. 71m2-137v1-23 > tlacoltoma (ninotla-invert.1). desatarse o librarse delos pecados por la > contricion, o confession sacramental. 71m2-137v1-23 > tlacoltzintiliztli (tla-invert.2). pecado original, o comienzo de pecados. > 71m2-137v1-23 > tlayellatoa (nitla-invert.1). hablar cosas desonestas y suzias. > 71m2-137v1-23 > tlatlacoltomaliztli (tla-invert.2). absolucion, o desatamiento de pecados. > 71m2-139r2-24 > tlatlacoltomalli (tla-invert.2). absuelto y desatado depecados. > 71m2-139r2-24 > tlatlahuelilocati. el que se haze vellaco. 71m2-140r1-24 > tlatlahuelilocatini. el que se haze vellaco. 71m2-140r1-24 > tlatlahuelilocatilia. el que haze vellacos alos otros. 71m2-140r1-24 > tlatlahuelilocatiliani. el que haze vellacos alos otros. 71m2-140r1-24 > tlahueliloc. maluado, o vellaco. 71m2-144r2-25 > tlahuelilocaaquilia (nite huel nitla). meter mal entre otros, > reboluiendolos, o peruertiendolos. 71m2-144r2-25 > tlahuelilocacuitia (nitla). . > 71m2-144r2-25 > tlahuelilocacuitia (nite). . > 71m2-144r2-25 > tlahuelilocacuitia (nino). peruertirse y hazerse malo. 71m2-144r2-25 > tlahuelilo cacuitilli. peruertido y maleado de otros. 71m2-144r2-25 > tlahuelilocayotica. peruersa y maliciosamente. 71m2-144r2-25 > tlahuelilocayotl. maldad, o vellaqueria. 71m2-144r2-25 > tlahuelilocaitoa (nite). hablar, o dezir defectos, o maldades agenas. > 71m2-144r2-25 > tlahuelilocamaca (nite). malear, o peruertir a otro. 71m2-144r2-25 > tlahuelilocamaca (nino). malearse, o hazerse vellaco. 71m2-144r2-25 > tlahuelilocamactli. maleado y peruertido de otros. 71m2-144r2-25 > tlahuelilocamati (nite). tener a otro por ruin y vellaco. 71m2-144r2-25 > tlahuelilocanemi (ni). andar hecho vellaco y perdido. 71m2-144r2-25 > tlahuelilocanemiliztli. vida vellaca y peruersa. 71m2-144r2-25 > tlahuelilocapo (no). vellaco como yo, o tan peruerso y malo como yo. > 71m2-144r2-25 > tlahuelilocati (ni). hazerse malo y vellaco. 71m2-144r2-25 > tlahuelilocayotl. maldad, vellaqueria o malicia. 71m2-144r2-25 > tlahuelilocatilia (nino). hazerse malo y vellaco. 71m2-144r2-25 > tlahuelilocatilia (nite). hazer vellaco a otro, operuertillo. > 71m2-144r2-25 > tlahuelilocatilia (nitla). peruertir y malear a los otros. 71m2-144r2-25 > tlahuelilocatililli. maleado y peruertido de otros. 71m2-144v1-25 > tlahuelilocatlapiquia (nite). leuantar a otro que es malo y vellaco. > 71m2-144v1-25 > tlahuelilocatlatoa (ni). hablar mal, o dezir malicias, o hablar como > vellaco y maluado. 71m2-144v1-25 > tlahuelilocatoca (nite). tener a otro por ruyn y vellaco. 71m2-144v1-25 > tlahuelilocattitinemi (ni). andar perdido y hecho vellaco. 71m2-144v1-25 From LaVoz at Aztlan.Net Wed May 23 05:55:46 2001 From: LaVoz at Aztlan.Net (La Voz de Aztlan) Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 22:55:46 -0700 Subject: "La Ley Azteca" - Re: homosexualidad y lesbianismo In-Reply-To: <3B0B31A5.887714E7@visto.com> Message-ID: Dear Nahuat-l List Members: We were offended by an individual on this list who identified him or herself as micc . Name calling and labeling of users of the list is unprofessional. We have been subscribers for a long time but have never posted. We have been contented in just reading the comments and learning a little Nahuatl along the way. La Voz de Aztlan is a bilingual news service and our subscribers are mostly Mexicans in the southwest U.S. and in Mexico. This person has insulted us. We are not insulting anyone here. This type of abuse should not be permitted in an academic oriented discussion group such as this one. We hope that the majority of the group does not support this person and allow us equal access to the discussion here on the Aztec Culture and language. Our purpose for asking about the legal concepts of our ancient Aztecs ancestors concerning homosexuality and lesbianism is not because we are "homophobic", like micc at home.com alleges, but because a controversy has arisen in our community concerning the true views of the Aztecs concerning the sexual lifestyles. There are groups of Chicanos in the U.S. that are disseminating false information on how our indigenous ancestors viewed homosexuals and lesbians in indigenous societies. This group of Chicano academicians who belong to the Joto and Lesbian Caucuses of the National Association of Chicano and Chicana Studies (NACCS) are saying that our ancient indigenous cultures viewed the lifestyles favorably which contradicts the study of Bernada Reza Ramirez of the Universidad Abierta de Mexico. We thought it was appropriate to ask for commentary from the learned persons on the list who specialize in Aztec culture and language and since other subtopics such as cannibalism among the Aztecs were also being discussed. We do not mean to offend anyone, specially any gay members of the list. Our intention is to seek true and verifiable information. Ernesto Cienfuegos Editor-in-Chief La Voz de Aztlan On Tue, 22 May 2001 20:42:29 -0700 micc wrote: > Just a note: > > The requester of this "info" is a member of a homophobic, racist organization: > > http://www.aztlan.net/leyazteca.htm > http://www.aztlan.net/drinko.htm > > > > "r. joe campbell" wrote: > > > I checked Molina's 1571 Nahuatl-Spanish dictionary and found the > > material below. > > > > Best regards, > > > > Joe > > > > "sinful, hard of heart, evil, debauched, bad reputation" follows ******** > > > > bai *** sexual intercourse > > > > ahuiani. puta, o mala muger. 71m2-9v1-2 > > ahuianiti (n). ser puta. 71m2-9v1-2 > > ahuiani calli. burdel, o puteria. 71m2-9v1-2 > > cihuanotzani (cenca-invert.2). desainado, porse dar mucho a mugeres. > > 71m2-17r1-3 > > centecpanhuia (nite). dar botin a muger s. echarse muchos con ella. > > 71m2-17v1-3 > > chahuacocoya. estar afligida la muger porque su marido esta amancebado, o > > por tener alguna grave enfermedad. 71m2-19r2-4 > > chauh (no). mi combleza. 71m2-19r2-4 > > cihuayo. persona que se sirue de mugeres. 71m2-22v1-4 > > cihuaihuinti. hombre dado a mugeres. 71m2-22v1-4 > > cihuatlahuelilocati (ni). darse mucho a mugeres. 71m2-22v2-4 > > cihuatlahuicale. persona que tiene seruicio de mugeres. 71m2-22v2-4 > > cochuia (nite). hazerlo ala muger que esta durmiendo. 71m2-23v1-4 > > coyoquetza (nite). tomarse como brutos animales. 71m2-24r1-4 > > cui (nic). tomar algo, o tener parte el hombre con la muger. 71m2-26v1-5 > > cuicui (nic). tener parte el hombre con la muger. 71m2-26v2-5 > > cuilonyotl. pecado nefando, de hombre con hombre. 71m2-26v2-5 > > cuilontia (nite). cometer pecado nefando. 71m2-26v2-5 > > icza (mo). tomarse las aues. 71m2-32r1-6 > > yecoa (nite). hazerlo ael, o aella. 71m2-34v2-6 > > yomoni. bullir los gusanos, o piojos, pulgas, hormigas, o cosas > > semejantes, o dar mucha comezon los granos o la sarna, o tener gran > > encendimiento dela carne los mozos omozas luxuriosas. 71m2-41r2-7 > > aci (itech n-invert.1). tener parte con alguna muger. 71m2-42r2-7 > > itetia (nite). empre¤ar el varon ala muger. 71m2-42v2-7 > > itlacoa (nin). enfermar por se dar mucho a mugeres. 71m2-43r1-7 > > itlan nicochi. dormir con muger. 71m2-43r2-8 > > yoli. cosa biua, o alterarse el miembro. 71m2-44r2-8 > > yolitia (nic). alterar el miembro. 71m2-44r2-8 > > maahuiltia. ramera. 71m2-50r1-9 > > maahuiltiani. puta honesta. 71m2-50r1-9 > > mahahuiltia. puta honesta. 71m2-51r2-9 > > maxaloa (nic). hazer traycion el casado a su muger, teniendo parte con > > otra, o ella a el cometiendo adulterio. 71m2-54v2-9 > > mecatia (nino). amancebarse. o proueerse de cordeles. 71m2-55r1-9 > > mictia (nitla). ser impotente para engendrar, o sacrificar ante los idolos > > matando algo. 71m2-56r2-10 > > [i]cza (mo-invert.1). tomarse las aues. 71m2-57v1-10 > > cihuahuiqui (mo). desainado por se auer dado mucho a mugeres. > > 71m2-57v2-10 > > mecati (mo). amancebado. 71m2-58v2-10 > > mecatiani (mo). amancebado. 71m2-58v2-10 > > cuauhquetza (mo-invert.1). alterarse o alzarse el miembro. 71m2-059v2-10 > > quetza (mo). tomarse las animalias. 71m2-059v2-10 > > quequeza (mo). tomarse las aues. 71m2-059v2-10 > > quetzallani (mo-invert.1). estar cachonda la perra. &c. 71m2-060r1-10 > > quetztlani (mo-invert.1). estar cochonda la perra. &c. 71m2-060r1-10 > > tetlaneuhtiani (mo). puta del burdel. 71m2-060r2-10 > > tetlanehuiani (mo). puta¤ero. 71m2-060r2-10 > > tetzincohuiani (mo). puta¤ero. 71m2-060r2-10 > > tzinnamacani (mo). puta del burdel. 71m2-061r1-10 > > cihuahuiliztli (ne-invert.2). enfermedad causada por se auer dado mucho a > > mugeres. 71m2-65r1-11 > > mecatiliztica (ne-invert.2). con amancebamiento. 71m2-67r2-11 > > mecatiliztli (ne-invert.2). amancebamiento. 71m2-67r2-11 > > nepanoliztli (ne-invert.2). copula, o ayuntamiento carnal. 71m2-68r1-12 > > nepanoa (nite). tener parte con muger, o meterse entre otros. > > 71m2-68v2-12 > > patlachhuiliztli (ne-invert.2). el acto de hazerlo la vna ala otra, > > pecando contra natura. 71m2-69r1-12 > > tlaneuhtilizcalli (ne-invert.2). burdel o casa de malas mugeres. > > 71m2-70v1-12 > > tlaneuhtiloyan (ne-invert.2). burdel o casa de malas mugeres. > > 71m2-70v1-12 > > tzincohuiloyan (ne-invert.2). burdel. 71m2-71r1-12 > > tzinnamacoyan (ne-invert.2). burdel. 71m2-71r1-12 > > noquicho. mi simiente. 71m2-73v2-13 > > occhalchihuitl. es aun donzella y virgen. metaphora. 71m2-75r1-13 > > ocmacitinemi. donzella virgen y entera. 71m2-75r2-13 > > ocmotquitinemi. virgen entera. 71m2-75v1-13 > > huel ichpochtli (oc -invert.2). virgen que esta aun entera. 71m2-75v2-13 > > otlamicti. hombre impotente para engendrar. 71m2-78r1-13 > > patlachhuia (nite). hazerlo vna muger a otra. 71m2-80r2-14 > > cuauhtilia (nitla). arrechar o alterar el miembro. 71m2-87r1-15 > > cuauhtlaza (nite). echarse muchos convna muger o dar botin. 71m2-87r1-15 > > quequeza (mo). tomarse las aues para engendrar. 71m2-89r1-15 > > quetza (nite). detener, o hazer parar alque camina o hazer leuantar alque > > esta asentado, o hazerlo el perro ala perra, o el cauallo ala yegua. > > 71m2-89r2-15 > > cochhuia (nite-invert.1). tener parte conla muger que esta durmiendo. > > 71m2-92v2-16 > > cuilonti (te-invert.2). el que lo haze a otro, pecando contra natura. > > 71m2-93v1-16 > > cuilontiani (te-invert.2). el que lo haze a otro, pecando contra natura. > > 71m2-93v1-16 > > cuilontiliztli (te-invert.2). el acto del que comete este pecado. > > 71m2-93v1-16 > > teichtacamecauh. manceba de soltero. 71m2-94r2-16 > > ixelehuiani (te-invert.2). cobdiciador de mugeres, o cobdiciadora de > > varones. 71m2-95v2-16 > > ixelehuiliztica (te-invert.2). cobdiciando mugeres. &c. 71m2-95v2-16 > > ixelehuiliztli (te-invert.2). cobdicia tal. 71m2-95v2-16 > > temecauh. manceba de soltero. 71m2-98r1-16 > > yani (tepan -invert.2). adultero. 71m2-102r1-17 > > yaqui (tepan -invert.2). adultero. 71m2-102r1-17 > > yauh (tepan ni-invert.1). cometer adulterio. 71m2-102r1-17 > > teca (nite-invert.1). echarse con alguna muger. 71m2-105v2-18 > > tecaliztli (te-invert.2). el acto de echarse y tener parte con muger. > > 71m2-106r1-18 > > tecani (te-invert.2). el que se echa con muger. 71m2-106r1-18 > > axiliztli (tetech-invert.2). el acto de tener parte, o ayuntamiento con > > muger. 71m2-106r1-18 > > aci (tetech n-invert.1). tener conuersacion y parte con muger. > > 71m2-106r1-18 > > tlamia (tetech nino-invert.1). infamar a alguna persona diziendo que tuuo > > parte conella, no siendo verdad. 71m2-106r2-18 > > acqui (tetlan-invert.2). trama de tela, o el que quiere adulterar. > > 71m2-108v2-18 > > nahualnochili (tetla-invert.2). alcahuete, o alcahueta. 71m2-108v2-18 > > nahualnochiliani (tetla-invert.2). alcahuete, o alcahueta. 71m2-108v2-18 > > nahualnochililiztli (tetla-invert.2). alcahueteria. 71m2-108v2-18 > > nahualnochiliqui (tetla-invert.2). alcahuete, o alcahueta. 71m2-108v2-18 > > nanahuatiliqui (tetla-invert.2). alcahuete, o alcahueta. 71m2-108v2-18 > > nahuatili (tetla-invert.2). alcahuete, o alcahueta. 71m2-108v2-18 > > nahuatililiztli (tetla-invert.2). alcahueteria. 71m2-108v2-18 > > aqui (tetlan n-invert.1). echarse, o tener parte conla que esta durmiendo. > > 71m2-108v2-18 > > nochili (tetla-invert.2). alcahuete, o alcahueta. 71m2-109r1-18 > > nochiliani (tetla-invert.2). alcahuete, o alcahueta. 71m2-109r1-18 > > nochililiztli (tetla-invert.2). alcahueteria. 71m2-109r1-18 > > nochiliqui (tetla-invert.2). alcahuete. 71m2-109r1-18 > > ximaliztica (tetla-invert.2). adulterando, o cometiendo adulterio. > > 71m2-110r2-19 > > ximaliztli (tetla-invert.2). adulterio. 71m2-110r2-19 > > ximani (tetla-invert.2). adultero. 71m2-110r2-19 > > xinqui (tetla-invert.2). adultero. 71m2-110r2-19 > > tetzacayotl. esterilidad delos que son esteriles y no engendran hijos. > > 71m2-110v2-19 > > tetzacati (ni). hazerse esteril. 71m2-110v2-19 > > tetzacatilia (nite). hazer esteril a alguna. 71m2-110v2-19 > > tetzacatl. esteril, que no tiene hijos. 71m2-110v2-19 > > tetzicayotl. esterilidad delos que no engendran. 71m2-111r2-19 > > tetzicati. hazerse esteril assi. 71m2-111r2-19 > > tetzicatl. esteril, que no engendra hijos. 71m2-111r2-19 > > tzintzayanaliztli (te-invert.2). corrompimiento de virgen. s. el acto de > > corromperla, lastimandola mucho. 71m2-111v1-19 > > tzintzayanani (te-invert.2). corrompedor tal. 71m2-111v1-19 > > xapotlaliztli (te-invert.2). corrompimiento, o desfloracion de virgen. > > 71m2-112r2-19 > > xapotlani (te-invert.2). corrompedor de virgen. 71m2-112r2-19 > > tilinia (nite). asir de alguna para tener parte conella. 71m2-113r2-19 > > tixpampa quiza. simiente de muger. &c. 71m2-113v2-19 > > tixpampa huetzi. simiente de muger. &c. 71m2-113v2-19 > > tlacaxinachtli. simiente devaron o de muger. 71m2-116r1-20 > > ihiani (tla-invert.2). asqueroso y aborrecedor dela comida, o dela muger. > > &c. 71m2-121v1-21 > > mictiliztli (tla-invert.2). impotencia del varon, que no puede tener parte > > con muger. 71m2-126v2-22 > > tlaneuhtia (nino). puta¤ear la muger. 71m2-128v1-22 > > tlacuauhtilia (ni). arrechar o leuantar el miembro. 71m2-133v2-23 > > tlacuauhtiliani. el que assi leuanta el miembro. 71m2-133v2-23 > > tlacuauhtilliliztli [sic]. el acto de arrechar. 71m2-133v2-23 > > quequezaliztli (tla-invert.2). el acto de pisar o recalcar algo, o el acto > > de tomar el gallo ala gallina. 71m2-134r1-23 > > quequezani (tla-invert.2). recalcador, pisador, o pateador, o gallo que > > toma ala gallina. 71m2-134r1-23 > > tlaxintli (tla-invert.2). cornudo. s. al que han hecho adulterio. > > 71m2-140r1-24 > > tlatoca. el que anda sembrando o siembra semillas, o el que va al burdel, > > o el que continua la casa de su manceba o amiga. 71m2-140v1-24 > > xapotlalli (tla-invert.2). cosa agujerada, o horadada, o virgen > > corrompida. 71m2-145v1-25 > > xima (nitetla-invert.1). adulterar. 71m2-146r1-25 > > xochihuilli (tla-invert.2). muger encantada y lleuada por ay adelante. > > 71m2-146v1-25 > > tocihuayo. simiente de muger. 71m2-148v1-25 > > totomicqui. varon impotente para engendrar. 71m2-150v2-26 > > totomiquiliztli. impotencia de varon para engendrar. 71m2-150v2-26 > > tzimmicqui. varon impotente para engendrar. 71m2-152r2-26 > > tzincohuia (ninote). puta¤ear el varon pagando ala dama. 71m2-152r2-26 > > tzinnamaca (nino). venderla muger su cuerpo. 71m2-152v1-26 > > tzinnamaca (nite). alcahuetear. 71m2-152v1-26 > > tzinquetza (nite). tener parte y tomarse el varon y la muger, amanera de > > brutos. 71m2-152v1-26 > > tzinquetza (nino). ponerse la muger amanera de perra o de otro animal, > > paraque el varon tenga parte con ella. 71m2-152v1-26 > > huel ichpochotl. virginidad entera. 71m2-156r1-26 > > xapotla (nite). desflorar o corromper virgen. 71m2-158v1-27 > > xinachoa (nino). asementarse. 71m2-159r2-27 > > > > ************ > > > > > > > > cccb *** sinful, hard of heart, evil, debauched, bad reputation > > > > achihualiztli. cosa ilicita que no se deue hazer. 71m2-2r2-1 > > achihualoni. cosa ilicita que no se deue hazer. 71m2-2r2-1 > > ahahuilnemi (n). rufianear. o luxuriar. 71m2-3r1-1 > > ahahuilnemiliztli. rufianeria o luxuria. 71m2-3r1-1 > > ayeccan. en mal tiempo o sazon, o lugar malo. aduerbio. 71m2-3v1-1 > > ayecyotl. maldad o malicia. 71m2-3v1-1 > > ayectiliztli. maldad o malicia. 71m2-3v1-1 > > ayectlachihua (n). hazer cosa mala. 71m2-3v1-1 > > ayectli. cosa mala. 71m2-3v1-1 > > apinahualiztica. desuergonzadamente. 71m2-7r1-1 > > apinahualiztli. desuerguenza. 71m2-7r1-1 > > apinahuani. desuergonzado. 71m2-7r1-1 > > apinahuani cihuatl. muger desonesta. 71m2-7r1-1 > > acualcan. lugar indecente y malo. 71m2-7r1-2 > > acuallachihua (n). hazer alguna cosa mala. 71m2-7r1-2 > > acuallachihualiztica. con malas obras. 71m2-7r1-2 > > acuallachihualiztli. obras malas. 71m2-7r1-2 > > acuallachihualli. obras mal hechas. 71m2-7r1-2 > > acuallachihuani. mal hechor. 71m2-7r1-2 > > acuallatolli. palabras malas. 71m2-7r1-2 > > acualli. cosa mala. 71m2-7r1-2 > > chicahualiztli (acualli ipan ne-invert.2). obstinacion o perseuerancia > > enel mal. 71m2-7r1-2 > > acuallotl. maldad o malicia. 71m2-7r2-2 > > acualtiliztli. maldad o malicia. 71m2-7r2-2 > > acualtin. malos. 71m2-7r2-2 > > aquetzca cihuatl. muger desonesta y sin verguenza. 71m2-7r2-2 > > aquixtilpilli. incorregible. 71m2-7v1-2 > > atlacanemi. hombre desconcertado dissoluto y vicioso. 71m2-8r1-2 > > atlacanemiliztli. dissolucion tal. 71m2-8r1-2 > > atlacatl. marinero, o mal hombre. 71m2-8r1-2 > > atlacualitolli. persona de ruyn fama. 71m2-8r2-2 > > ahuilihui (n). apocarse con los vicios. 71m2-9v2-2 > > ahuililama. vieja. luxuriosa y mala muger. 71m2-9v2-2 > > ahuilhuehue. viejo luxurioso rufian. 71m2-9v2-2 > > ahuilnemiliztli. vida carnal o luxuriosa. 71m2-9v2-2 > > ahuilnenqui. persona carnal y luxuriosa. 71m2-9v2-2 > > ahuiltelpocati (n). rufianear o luxuriar. 71m2-9v2-2 > > ahuiltelpochti (n). rufianear o luxuriar. 71m2-9v2-2 > > ahuiltelpochtontli. mozo rufianejo. 71m2-9v2-2 > > iuh nenti inchichixtiuh noyollo (zan -invert.2). hazerse poco apoco, o sin > > aduertir de mala condicion, y de amargo corazon. 71m2-14v1-3 > > cecemotli. persona de mala fama. metaphora. 71m2-15r2-3 > > cecentianquiztli. el que en todas partes tiene ruyn fama. 71m2-15v1-3 > > cenquizca tlahueliloc. hombre peruerso ymaluado. 71m2-17v1-3 > > centzonteti (ni). endurecerse o obstinarse. 71m2-18r2-3 > > chauhnecocoya (ni). estar endemoniado. 71m2-19r2-4 > > chicoyauh (ni). apartarse dela virtud. 71m2-20r2-4 > > chicoyolloani. hombre sospechoso y malicioso. 71m2-20r2-4 > > chicoquiza (ni). apartarse dela virtud. 71m2-20v1-4 > > cihuacuecuech. muger deshonesta y desuergonzada. 71m2-22v1-4 > > cihuatlahueliloc. hombre dado a mugeres, o mala muger. 71m2-22v2-4 > > cuecuetz. trauiesso y desuergonzado. 71m2-25v2-5 > > yeyeloac (ica-invert.2). hombre de mala fama. 71m2-31v2-6 > > nemi (in ica -invert.2). sensual y vicioso. 71m2-38v2-7 > > yollocuepa (nite). peruertir a otro. 71m2-40r2-7 > > yollo malacachilhuia (nicte). peruertir algo aotro. 71m2-40r2-7 > > yollotepitztlacuactia (ni). endurecerse y obstinarse. 71m2-40v1-7 > > yollotepitztlacuactiliztli. endurecimiento assi. 71m2-40v2-7 > > yollotepoztia (ni). endurecerse y obstinarse. 71m2-40v2-7 > > yollotequizaliztli. dureza y obstinacion assi. 71m2-40v2-7 > > yolloteti (ni). endurecerse perseuerando enel mal. 71m2-40v2-7 > > yollotetia (ni). endurecerse perseuerando enel mal. 71m2-40v2-7 > > yollotetilia (nite). endurecer y obstinar a otro assi. 71m2-40v2-7 > > yollotetiliztica. obstinadamente, o animosa y esforzadamente. > > 71m2-40v2-7 > > yollotetiliztli. endurecimiento y obstinacion, o animosidad y esfuerzo. > > 71m2-40v2-7 > > yollotetl. constante y animoso, o duro y obstinado. 71m2-40v2-7 > > yollotlacuactia (ni). endurecerse y obstinarse enel mal. 71m2-40v2-7 > > yollotlacuactiliztli. dureza assi. 71m2-40v2-7 > > yollotlacuahua (ni). endurecerse desta manera. 71m2-40v2-7 > > yollotlacuahua (nite). endurecer a otro. 71m2-40v2-7 > > yollotlacuahuac. endurecido desta manera. 71m2-40v2-7 > > yollotlacuahualiztica. obstinadamenteassi. 71m2-40v2-7 > > yollotlacuahualiztli. endurecimiento tal. 71m2-40v2-7 > > tequiz iyollo (iuhquin o-invert.2). endurecido de corazon. 71m2-43v2-8 > > tetl iyollo (iuhquin-invert.2). duro de corazon. 71m2-43v2-8 > > cuepa iyollo (iuhquin tetl mo-invert.1). obstinarse y endurecerse. > > 71m2-43v2-8 > > ixmaxalihui (n). dexar la buena costumbre. 71m2-46r1-8 > > macicahuia innitlatlacoani (nic). ser consumado en maldad. 71m2-50v2-9 > > maxiltia (nic). estar lleno de suziedad, o de maldad. 71m2-54v2-9 > > yollotetiliztli (ne-invert.2). endurecimiento de corazon, o proteruia. > > 71m2-66r2-11 > > nemilizitlacahuiliztli. corrupcion de costumbres. 71m2-67r2-12 > > catcapol (nican ni-invert.2). aqui estoy yo pecador o miserable. > > 71m2-71v2-12 > > catpolotica (nican ni-invert.2). aqui estoy yo pecador o miserable. > > 71m2-71v2-12 > > macicahuia nitlatlacoani (nic-invert.1). ser fino oconsumado pecador. > > 71m2-71v2-12 > > tlachixtinemi (nohuiampa-invert.2). muger desonesta que no guarda la > > vista. 71m2-74r2-13 > > ocholo iyollo. disoluta muger. 71m2-75r2-13 > > onicmac cahui innitlatlacoani. ser consumado y gran pecador. > > 71m2-77r2-13 > > pilchihua (nitla). pecar o hazer algun defecto. 71m2-81v1-14 > > cuachicuia (nitla). ser disoluto y desuergonzado. 71m2-84r1-14 > > quixcahuia inacayo. persona viciosa y carnal. 71m2-90v1-15 > > centlahueliltiliztli (te-invert.2). manera de biuir, o vida mala y pessima > > delos pecadores. 71m2-92r2-16 > > ichtacatlaxtlahuiani (te-invert.2). cohechador de juez. 71m2-94r2-16 > > ichtacatlaxtlahuiliztli (te-invert.2). cohecho. 71m2-94r2-16 > > yolcuepaliztica (te-invert.2). peruertidamente, o peruertiendo a otros, y > > trastornandoles el juyzio. 71m2-94v2-16 > > yolcuepaliztli (te-invert.2). peruertimiento assi. 71m2-94v2-16 > > yollotlahuelilocatililiztli (te-invert.2). inficionamiento del que > > inficiona y peruierte a otro. 71m2-95r2-16 > > yolmalacacho (te-invert.2). cosa que peruierte y desatina a otro. > > 71m2-95r2-16 > > yolmalacachoani (te-invert.2). cosa que peruierte y desatina a otro. > > 71m2-95r2-16 > > yolmalacacholiztica (te-invert.2). peruertiendo y desatinan do a otros. > > 71m2-95r2-16 > > yolmalacacholiztli (te-invert.2). peruertimiento tal. 71m2-95r2-16 > > telpochtlahueliloc. rufian, o mozo carnal. 71m2-96v1-16 > > telpochtlahuelilocati (ni). rufianear, o biuir carnalmente. 71m2-96v1-16 > > tencuauhxolotl. hombre de mala lengua. 71m2-99v1-17 > > tencuahuitl. hombre de mala lengua. 71m2-99v1-17 > > tlahuelilocacuitiani (te-invert.2). el que inficiona y haze malo a otro. > > 71m2-110r1-19 > > tlahuelilocacuitiliztli (te-invert.2). el acto de inficionar y da¤ar a > > otros, o de hazerlos malos y peruersos. 71m2-110r1-19 > > tlahuelilocamaquiliztli (te-invert.2). el acto de inficionar y da¤ar a > > otros, o de hazerlos malos y peruersos o peruertimiento. 71m2-110r1-19 > > tlahuelilocamatilizotl (te-invert.2). infamia, o mala opinion que se tiene > > de alguno. 71m2-110r1-19 > > tlahuelilocatiliztli (te-invert.2). > tetlahuelilocacuitiliztli>. 71m2-110-4-01-19 > > tlahuelilocatocani (te-invert.2). el que tiene mala opinion de otros. > > 71m2-110r2-19 > > tetzauhtlatlacoani. criminosa persona. 71m2-111r2-19 > > tetzauhtlatlacole. criminosa persona. 71m2-111r2-19 > > tetzauhtlatlacolli. pecado, o maldad grande y abominable. 71m2-111r2-19 > > tetzauhtlatlacoltica. criminalmente. 71m2-111r2-19 > > teuhtli tlazolli ic milacatzotinemi. el que biue mal y viciosamente. > > 71m2-111v2-19 > > teuhtli tlazolli nicololotinemi. biuir viciosamente. 71m2-111v2-19 > > tlacaahuilhuia (nite). peruertir y malear a otro. 71m2-114v2-19 > > tlacamiccatilia (nite). peruertir o malear a otro. 71m2-115v1-20 > > zolteocihuatl (tla-invert.2). muger diabolica y peruersa. 71m2-118v2-20 > > tlaellatolli. palabras desonestas y suzias. 71m2-120r2-20 > > tlaellaquetza (ni). dezir chistes, o consejuelas desonestas y muchas. > > 71m2-120r2-20 > > tlaelpaqui (ni). deleytarse con suzio deleyte. 71m2-120v1-21 > > tlaelpaquiliztica. con suzio o carnal deleyte. 71m2-120v1-21 > > tlaelpaquiliztli. suzio o carnal deleite. 71m2-120v1-21 > > tlaelpaquini. carnal persona. s. luxuriosa. 71m2-120v1-21 > > tlailpaqui (ni). . 71m2-121v2-21 > > tlailpaquiliztli. . 71m2-121v2-21 > > yollomachtli (tla-invert.2). persona notada de alguna falta, o vicio. > > 71m2-122r1-21 > > yollotlahuelilocatililli (tla-invert.2). maleado, o enloquecido de otros, > > por ledar priesa para tornarle loco. 71m2-122r1-21 > > yolmalacacholli (tla-invert.2). maleado, o enloquecido de otros, por ledar > > priesa para tornarle loco. 71m2-122r1-21 > > tlaneuhtia (nino). puta¤ear la muger. 71m2-128v1-22 > > tlanehuia (ninote). puta¤ear el varon. 71m2-128v2-22 > > pilchihualiztli (tla-invert.2). defecto, cosa malhecha, o pecado. s. el > > acto de pecar. 71m2-132r1-22 > > pilchihualli (tla-invert.2). pecado, o defecto. 71m2-132r1-22 > > pilchihuani (tla-invert.2). defectuoso, o pecador. 71m2-132r1-22 > > pilchiuhqui (tla-invert.2). defectuoso, o pecador. 71m2-132r1-22 > > pilchiuhtli (tla-invert.2). cosa malhecha, o culpa cometida. > > 71m2-132r1-22 > > tlatlacamiccati (ni). obstinarse y perseuerar enel mal, o tornarse loco y > > desatinado. 71m2-136v2-23 > > [i]tlacoa (nitla-invert.1). pecar, hazer mal, o da¤ar yechar aperder > > alguna cosa. 71m2-137r1-23 > > [i]tlacoani (tla-invert.2). pecador tal. 71m2-137r1-23 > > [i]tlacoaniyetoca (ninotla-invert.1). tenerse por pecador. 71m2-137r1-23 > > [i]tlacoanime (tla-invert.2). pecadores. 71m2-137r1-23 > > [i]tlacoanitoca (nitetla-invert.1). tener alos otros por pecadores. > > 71m2-137r1-23 > > tlacolcecualoliztli (tla-invert.2). elada, o frialdad de pecados. > > 71m2-137r2-23 > > tlacolcehuapahualiztli (tla-invert.2). elada, o frialdad de pecados. > > 71m2-137r2-23 > > tlacolcocoliztli (tla-invert.2). enfermedad y pestilencia de pecados. > > 71m2-137r2-23 > > tlacolcuitia (nitetla-invert.1). hazer pecar a otro. 71m2-137r2-23 > > [i]tlacolitztiliztli (tla-invert.2). frialdad de pecados. 71m2-137r2-23 > > [i]tlacollaza (ninotla-invert.1). descargarse delos pecados enla > > confession sacramental. 71m2-137r2-23 > > [i]tlacolli (tla-invert.2). pecado, culpa, o defecto. 71m2-137r2-23 > > [i]tlacolli ipololoca (tla-invert.2). perdon, o remission de pecados. > > 71m2-137r2-23 > > tlacolmachilia (nitetla-invert.1). saber los pecados agenos. > > 71m2-137r2-23 > > tlacolnextia (nitetla-invert.1). descubrir, o manifestar pecados agenos. > > 71m2-137r2-23 > > tlacolnexxotla (nitetla-invert.1). descubrir, o manifestar pecados agenos. > > 71m2-137r2-23 > > tlacolohuitilia (nitetla-invert.1). poner a otro en peligro, o dificultad, > > con algun pecado que le hizo cometer. 71m2-137r2-23 > > tlacolpan (tla-invert.2). en pecado, o en pecados. 71m2-137r2-23 > > tlacolpan ni-nemi (tla-invert.1). biuir en pecado. 71m2-137r2-23 > > tlacolpan nite-tlaza (tla-invert.1). hazer caer a otro en pecado. > > 71m2-137r2-23 > > tlacolpantlaza (nitetla-invert.1). descubrir pecados agenos o hazer que > > alguno cayga en ellos. 71m2-137r2-23 > > tlacolpehualiztli (tla-invert.2). pecado original. 71m2-137r2-23 > > tlacolpeuhcayotl (tla-invert.2). pecado original. 71m2-137r2-23 > > tlacolpolihuiliztli (tla-invert.2). remission o perdon de pecados. > > 71m2-137r2-23 > > tlacolpopolhuia (nitetla-invert.1). perdonar, o absoluer delos pecados. > > 71m2-137r2-23 > > tlacoltitlan (tla-invert.2). entre los pecados. 71m2-137v1-23 > > tlacoltoma (ninotla-invert.1). desatarse o librarse delos pecados por la > > contricion, o confession sacramental. 71m2-137v1-23 > > tlacoltzintiliztli (tla-invert.2). pecado original, o comienzo de pecados. > > 71m2-137v1-23 > > tlayellatoa (nitla-invert.1). hablar cosas desonestas y suzias. > > 71m2-137v1-23 > > tlatlacoltomaliztli (tla-invert.2). absolucion, o desatamiento de pecados. > > 71m2-139r2-24 > > tlatlacoltomalli (tla-invert.2). absuelto y desatado depecados. > > 71m2-139r2-24 > > tlatlahuelilocati. el que se haze vellaco. 71m2-140r1-24 > > tlatlahuelilocatini. el que se haze vellaco. 71m2-140r1-24 > > tlatlahuelilocatilia. el que haze vellacos alos otros. 71m2-140r1-24 > > tlatlahuelilocatiliani. el que haze vellacos alos otros. 71m2-140r1-24 > > tlahueliloc. maluado, o vellaco. 71m2-144r2-25 > > tlahuelilocaaquilia (nite huel nitla). meter mal entre otros, > > reboluiendolos, o peruertiendolos. 71m2-144r2-25 > > tlahuelilocacuitia (nitla). . > > 71m2-144r2-25 > > tlahuelilocacuitia (nite). . > > 71m2-144r2-25 > > tlahuelilocacuitia (nino). peruertirse y hazerse malo. 71m2-144r2-25 > > tlahuelilo cacuitilli. peruertido y maleado de otros. 71m2-144r2-25 > > tlahuelilocayotica. peruersa y maliciosamente. 71m2-144r2-25 > > tlahuelilocayotl. maldad, o vellaqueria. 71m2-144r2-25 > > tlahuelilocaitoa (nite). hablar, o dezir defectos, o maldades agenas. > > 71m2-144r2-25 > > tlahuelilocamaca (nite). malear, o peruertir a otro. 71m2-144r2-25 > > tlahuelilocamaca (nino). malearse, o hazerse vellaco. 71m2-144r2-25 > > tlahuelilocamactli. maleado y peruertido de otros. 71m2-144r2-25 > > tlahuelilocamati (nite). tener a otro por ruin y vellaco. 71m2-144r2-25 > > tlahuelilocanemi (ni). andar hecho vellaco y perdido. 71m2-144r2-25 > > tlahuelilocanemiliztli. vida vellaca y peruersa. 71m2-144r2-25 > > tlahuelilocapo (no). vellaco como yo, o tan peruerso y malo como yo. > > 71m2-144r2-25 > > tlahuelilocati (ni). hazerse malo y vellaco. 71m2-144r2-25 > > tlahuelilocayotl. maldad, vellaqueria o malicia. 71m2-144r2-25 > > tlahuelilocatilia (nino). hazerse malo y vellaco. 71m2-144r2-25 > > tlahuelilocatilia (nite). hazer vellaco a otro, operuertillo. > > 71m2-144r2-25 > > tlahuelilocatilia (nitla). peruertir y malear a los otros. 71m2-144r2-25 > > tlahuelilocatililli. maleado y peruertido de otros. 71m2-144v1-25 > > tlahuelilocatlapiquia (nite). leuantar a otro que es malo y vellaco. > > 71m2-144v1-25 > > tlahuelilocatlatoa (ni). hablar mal, o dezir malicias, o hablar como > > vellaco y maluado. 71m2-144v1-25 > > tlahuelilocatoca (nite). tener a otro por ruyn y vellaco. 71m2-144v1-25 > > tlahuelilocattitinemi (ni). andar perdido y hecho vellaco. 71m2-144v1-25 > From Richard.Haly at Colorado.EDU Tue May 22 23:32:44 2001 From: Richard.Haly at Colorado.EDU (richard haly) Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 17:32:44 -0600 Subject: icnopilli / icnopilti Message-ID: All, My sense of the "merit" associated with orphanhood (icno-) is that for Nahua speakers, orphans belong to a different cultural category than they do in our culture(s). That is, "to look on someone as an orphan" means "with compassion" as an orphan is someone "deserving or meriting compassion." The icnocuicatl in the Cantares seem to support this as does the notion (sorry no reference immediately at hand) that one's uncle took over on the death of a male parent. Maybe there is a little problem with "merit" as our culture(s) conceive it as something earned which is not necessarily the case in Mesoamerica as it depends to some degree on one's tonalli. I suppose a contextual comparison and analysis of macehua vs icnopil might clarify things too. In a hurry, Richard Haly on 19.05.01 8:25 PM, patrick thomas hajovsky at pthajovs at midway.uchicago.edu wrote: > Mark, > > That's really interesting; you've got some of my wheels turning... I'm > wondering if there are other ways to describe merit, and if "merit" can be > considered as an aspect of fate rather than something acquired through > honor. And getting back to David's question, if both forms with icno were > in operation at the same time and in the same places. > > I'll check out the Carochi. Thanks for the response. > > Patrick > > _______________________________ > ixquich in pepetlaca xteocuitla > > On Sat, 19 May 2001, Mark David Morris wrote: > >> Patrick, >> >> Thanks for your comments; however, verbs derived or modified with icno >> clearly relate to merit. You might want to check the relevant sections of >> Carochi. best, >> Mark Morris >> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> >> La muerte tiene permiso a todo >> >> MDM, PhD Candidate >> Dept. of History, Indiana Univ. >> >> > From schwallr at selway.umt.edu Wed May 23 19:17:09 2001 From: schwallr at selway.umt.edu (John F. Schwaller) Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 13:17:09 -0600 Subject: "La Ley Azteca" - Re: homosexualidad y lesbianismo Message-ID: Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 09:53:38 -0500 To: nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu From: Bernard Ortiz de Montellano Subject: Re[2]: "La Ley Azteca" - Re: homosexualidad y lesbianismo This is not quite the whole story. Please check the urls cited http://www.aztlan.net/leyazteca.htm http://www.aztlan.net/drinko.htm Publishing the notorious antisemitic *Protocols of the Elders of Zion" as well as several antisemitic articles clearly shows the nature of this publication >Dear Nahuat-l List Members: > >We were offended by an individual on this >list who identified him or herself as >micc . Name calling and >labeling of users of the list is >unprofessional. We have been subscribers >for a long time but have never posted. >We have been contented in just reading >the comments and learning a little >Nahuatl along the way. La Voz de Aztlan >is a bilingual news service and our >subscribers are mostly Mexicans in the >southwest U.S. and in Mexico. This >person has insulted us. We are not >insulting anyone here. This type of >abuse should not be permitted in an >academic oriented discussion group >such as this one. We hope that the >majority of the group does not support >this person and allow us equal access >to the discussion here on the Aztec >Culture and language. From LaVoz at Aztlan.Net Wed May 23 20:21:28 2001 From: LaVoz at Aztlan.Net (La Voz de Aztlan) Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 13:21:28 -0700 Subject: "La Ley Azteca" - Re: homosexualidad y lesbianismo In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010523131441.02854ec0@selway.umt.edu> Message-ID: Dear Moderator of the Nahuat-l List: Is this a pro-Zionist mailing list? Will we be banned? The "protocols" are published for information and discussion only. Many of us Mexicans are not familiar with them. Is it against the law to publish them? Regardless of all the above, what does this have to do with Nahuatl? You people are acting worse than Nazis. La Voz de Aztlan On Wed, 23 May 2001 13:17:09 -0600 "John F. Schwaller" wrote: > Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 09:53:38 -0500 > To: nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu > From: Bernard Ortiz de Montellano > Subject: Re[2]: "La Ley Azteca" - Re: homosexualidad y lesbianismo > > This is not quite the whole story. Please check the urls cited > http://www.aztlan.net/leyazteca.htm > http://www.aztlan.net/drinko.htm > Publishing the notorious antisemitic *Protocols of the Elders of > Zion" as well as several antisemitic articles clearly shows the > nature of this publication > > >Dear Nahuat-l List Members: > > > >We were offended by an individual on this > >list who identified him or herself as > >micc . Name calling and > >labeling of users of the list is > >unprofessional. We have been subscribers > >for a long time but have never posted. > >We have been contented in just reading > >the comments and learning a little > >Nahuatl along the way. La Voz de Aztlan > >is a bilingual news service and our > >subscribers are mostly Mexicans in the > >southwest U.S. and in Mexico. This > >person has insulted us. We are not > >insulting anyone here. This type of > >abuse should not be permitted in an > >academic oriented discussion group > >such as this one. We hope that the > >majority of the group does not support > >this person and allow us equal access > >to the discussion here on the Aztec > >Culture and language. > > From mreynolds at bbrcreative.com Wed May 23 20:45:17 2001 From: mreynolds at bbrcreative.com (Matt Reynolds) Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 15:45:17 -0500 Subject: "La Ley Azteca" - Re: homosexualidad y lesbianismo In-Reply-To: <3B0C1BC88C.FE63LAVOZ@smtp.earthlink.net> Message-ID: the discussion was great up to this point...i found it to be very interesting. please let the discussion continue as i feel it will benefit all...regardless of their personal philosophical viewpoints. matt reynolds > From: La Voz de Aztlan > Reply-To: nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu > Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 13:21:28 -0700 > To: nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu > Subject: Re[3]: "La Ley Azteca" - Re: homosexualidad y lesbianismo > > Dear Moderator of the Nahuat-l List: > > Is this a pro-Zionist mailing list? > Will we be banned? > > The "protocols" are published for > information and discussion only. > Many of us Mexicans are not familiar > with them. Is it against the law to > publish them? > > Regardless of all the above, what > does this have to do with Nahuatl? > You people are acting worse than Nazis. > > La Voz de Aztlan > > > On Wed, 23 May 2001 13:17:09 -0600 > "John F. Schwaller" wrote: > >> Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 09:53:38 -0500 >> To: nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu >> From: Bernard Ortiz de Montellano >> Subject: Re[2]: "La Ley Azteca" - Re: homosexualidad y lesbianismo >> >> This is not quite the whole story. Please check the urls cited >> http://www.aztlan.net/leyazteca.htm >> http://www.aztlan.net/drinko.htm >> Publishing the notorious antisemitic *Protocols of the Elders of >> Zion" as well as several antisemitic articles clearly shows the >> nature of this publication >> >>> Dear Nahuat-l List Members: >>> >>> We were offended by an individual on this >>> list who identified him or herself as >>> micc . Name calling and >>> labeling of users of the list is >>> unprofessional. We have been subscribers >>> for a long time but have never posted. >>> We have been contented in just reading >>> the comments and learning a little >>> Nahuatl along the way. La Voz de Aztlan >>> is a bilingual news service and our >>> subscribers are mostly Mexicans in the >>> southwest U.S. and in Mexico. This >>> person has insulted us. We are not >>> insulting anyone here. This type of >>> abuse should not be permitted in an >>> academic oriented discussion group >>> such as this one. We hope that the >>> majority of the group does not support >>> this person and allow us equal access >>> to the discussion here on the Aztec >>> Culture and language. >> >> > From juergen.stowasser at univie.ac.at Wed May 23 23:13:37 2001 From: juergen.stowasser at univie.ac.at (Juergen Stowasser) Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 01:13:37 +0200 Subject: "La Ley Azteca" - Re: homosexualidad y lesbianismo Message-ID: I fear that this thread goes beyond "personal philosophical viewpoints". The disgusting antisemitic propaganda on the www.aztlan.net-site is just intolerable. best Juergen Stowasser Matt Reynolds schrieb: > the discussion was great up to this point...i found it to be very > interesting. please let the discussion continue as i feel it will benefit > all...regardless of their personal philosophical viewpoints. > > matt reynolds > > > From: La Voz de Aztlan > > Reply-To: nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu > > Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 13:21:28 -0700 > > To: nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu > > Subject: Re[3]: "La Ley Azteca" - Re: homosexualidad y lesbianismo > > > > Dear Moderator of the Nahuat-l List: > > > > Is this a pro-Zionist mailing list? > > Will we be banned? > > > > The "protocols" are published for > > information and discussion only. > > Many of us Mexicans are not familiar > > with them. Is it against the law to > > publish them? > > > > Regardless of all the above, what > > does this have to do with Nahuatl? > > You people are acting worse than Nazis. > > > > La Voz de Aztlan > > > > > > On Wed, 23 May 2001 13:17:09 -0600 > > "John F. Schwaller" wrote: > > > >> Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 09:53:38 -0500 > >> To: nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu > >> From: Bernard Ortiz de Montellano > >> Subject: Re[2]: "La Ley Azteca" - Re: homosexualidad y lesbianismo > >> > >> This is not quite the whole story. Please check the urls cited > >> http://www.aztlan.net/leyazteca.htm > >> http://www.aztlan.net/drinko.htm > >> Publishing the notorious antisemitic *Protocols of the Elders of > >> Zion" as well as several antisemitic articles clearly shows the > >> nature of this publication > >> > >>> Dear Nahuat-l List Members: > >>> > >>> We were offended by an individual on this > >>> list who identified him or herself as > >>> micc . Name calling and > >>> labeling of users of the list is > >>> unprofessional. We have been subscribers > >>> for a long time but have never posted. > >>> We have been contented in just reading > >>> the comments and learning a little > >>> Nahuatl along the way. La Voz de Aztlan > >>> is a bilingual news service and our > >>> subscribers are mostly Mexicans in the > >>> southwest U.S. and in Mexico. This > >>> person has insulted us. We are not > >>> insulting anyone here. This type of > >>> abuse should not be permitted in an > >>> academic oriented discussion group > >>> such as this one. We hope that the > >>> majority of the group does not support > >>> this person and allow us equal access > >>> to the discussion here on the Aztec > >>> Culture and language. > >> > >> > > -- Juergen Stowasser Burggasse 114/2/8 A-1070 Wien - Vien(n)a Austria tel: 01/ 524 54 60 v 0676/ 398 66 79 http://www.univie.ac.at/meso From micc at home.com Wed May 23 23:30:01 2001 From: micc at home.com (micc) Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 16:30:01 -0700 Subject: "La Ley Azteca" - Re: homosexualidad y lesbianismo Message-ID: The reason I brought this up is the fact that if you "disagree" with this type of rabid, angry and hateful ideology, therefor you must be "one of them".... if you are not anti-Semitic and homophobic you must therefore be "pro Zionist " and part of the "enemies [out to] destroy our culture" A culture of hatred? and intolerance??? Please check out OUR website to see a different way of looking at the world: www.mexicayotl.org thanks! mario e. aguilar La Voz de Aztlan wrote: > Dear Moderator of the Nahuat-l List: > > Is this a pro-Zionist mailing list? > Will we be banned? > > The "protocols" are published for > information and discussion only. > Many of us Mexicans are not familiar > with them. Is it against the law to > publish them? > > Regardless of all the above, what > does this have to do with Nahuatl? > You people are acting worse than Nazis. > > La Voz de Aztlan > > > On Wed, 23 May 2001 13:17:09 -0600 > "John F. Schwaller" wrote: > > > Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 09:53:38 -0500 > > To: nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu > > From: Bernard Ortiz de Montellano > > Subject: Re[2]: "La Ley Azteca" - Re: homosexualidad y lesbianismo > > > > This is not quite the whole story. Please check the urls cited > > http://www.aztlan.net/leyazteca.htm > > http://www.aztlan.net/drinko.htm > > Publishing the notorious antisemitic *Protocols of the Elders of > > Zion" as well as several antisemitic articles clearly shows the > > nature of this publication > > > > >Dear Nahuat-l List Members: > > > > > >We were offended by an individual on this > > >list who identified him or herself as > > >micc . Name calling and > > >labeling of users of the list is > > >unprofessional. We have been subscribers > > >for a long time but have never posted. > > >We have been contented in just reading > > >the comments and learning a little > > >Nahuatl along the way. La Voz de Aztlan > > >is a bilingual news service and our > > >subscribers are mostly Mexicans in the > > >southwest U.S. and in Mexico. This > > >person has insulted us. We are not > > >insulting anyone here. This type of > > >abuse should not be permitted in an > > >academic oriented discussion group > > >such as this one. We hope that the > > >majority of the group does not support > > >this person and allow us equal access > > >to the discussion here on the Aztec > > >Culture and language. > > > > From LaVoz at Aztlan.Net Thu May 24 00:11:19 2001 From: LaVoz at Aztlan.Net (La Voz de Aztlan) Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 17:11:19 -0700 Subject: "La Ley Azteca" - Re: homosexualidad y lesbianismo In-Reply-To: <3B0C47F8.E0ADDA57@home.com> Message-ID: So you are the collaborator that alerted all the gringos and zionists on this list! Are you making very much money "pimping" our culture to the white man. You are a disgrace to the race. ******************************************* On Wed, 23 May 2001 16:30:01 -0700 micc wrote: > The reason I brought this up is the fact that if you "disagree" with > this type of rabid, angry and hateful ideology, therefor you must be > "one of them".... if you are not anti-Semitic and homophobic you must > therefore be "pro Zionist " and part of the "enemies [out to] destroy > our culture" > > A culture of hatred? and intolerance??? > > Please check out OUR website to see a different way of looking at the > world: > www.mexicayotl.org > > thanks! > mario e. aguilar > > La Voz de Aztlan wrote: > > > Dear Moderator of the Nahuat-l List: > > > > Is this a pro-Zionist mailing list? > > Will we be banned? > > > > The "protocols" are published for > > information and discussion only. > > Many of us Mexicans are not familiar > > with them. Is it against the law to > > publish them? > > > > Regardless of all the above, what > > does this have to do with Nahuatl? > > You people are acting worse than Nazis. > > > > La Voz de Aztlan > > > > > > On Wed, 23 May 2001 13:17:09 -0600 > > "John F. Schwaller" wrote: > > > > > Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 09:53:38 -0500 > > > To: nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu > > > From: Bernard Ortiz de Montellano > > > Subject: Re[2]: "La Ley Azteca" - Re: homosexualidad y lesbianismo > > > > > > This is not quite the whole story. Please check the urls cited > > > http://www.aztlan.net/leyazteca.htm > > > http://www.aztlan.net/drinko.htm > > > Publishing the notorious antisemitic *Protocols of the Elders of > > > Zion" as well as several antisemitic articles clearly shows the > > > nature of this publication > > > > > > >Dear Nahuat-l List Members: > > > > > > > >We were offended by an individual on this > > > >list who identified him or herself as > > > >micc . Name calling and > > > >labeling of users of the list is > > > >unprofessional. We have been subscribers > > > >for a long time but have never posted. > > > >We have been contented in just reading > > > >the comments and learning a little > > > >Nahuatl along the way. La Voz de Aztlan > > > >is a bilingual news service and our > > > >subscribers are mostly Mexicans in the > > > >southwest U.S. and in Mexico. This > > > >person has insulted us. We are not > > > >insulting anyone here. This type of > > > >abuse should not be permitted in an > > > >academic oriented discussion group > > > >such as this one. We hope that the > > > >majority of the group does not support > > > >this person and allow us equal access > > > >to the discussion here on the Aztec > > > >Culture and language. > > > > > > > From micc at home.com Thu May 24 00:25:39 2001 From: micc at home.com (micc) Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 17:25:39 -0700 Subject: "La Ley Azteca" - Re: homosexualidad y lesbianismo Message-ID: ya ya ya what ever............ La Voz de Aztlan wrote: > So you are the collaborator that alerted all > the gringos and zionists on this list! Are > you making very much money "pimping" our > culture to the white man. You are a disgrace to > the race. > > ******************************************* > > On Wed, 23 May 2001 16:30:01 -0700 > micc wrote: > > > The reason I brought this up is the fact that if you "disagree" with > > this type of rabid, angry and hateful ideology, therefor you must be > > "one of them".... if you are not anti-Semitic and homophobic you must > > therefore be "pro Zionist " and part of the "enemies [out to] destroy > > our culture" > > > > A culture of hatred? and intolerance??? > > > > Please check out OUR website to see a different way of looking at the > > world: > > www.mexicayotl.org > > > > thanks! > > mario e. aguilar > > > > La Voz de Aztlan wrote: > > > > > Dear Moderator of the Nahuat-l List: > > > > > > Is this a pro-Zionist mailing list? > > > Will we be banned? > > > > > > The "protocols" are published for > > > information and discussion only. > > > Many of us Mexicans are not familiar > > > with them. Is it against the law to > > > publish them? > > > > > > Regardless of all the above, what > > > does this have to do with Nahuatl? > > > You people are acting worse than Nazis. > > > > > > La Voz de Aztlan > > > > > > > > > On Wed, 23 May 2001 13:17:09 -0600 > > > "John F. Schwaller" wrote: > > > > > > > Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 09:53:38 -0500 > > > > To: nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu > > > > From: Bernard Ortiz de Montellano > > > > Subject: Re[2]: "La Ley Azteca" - Re: homosexualidad y lesbianismo > > > > > > > > This is not quite the whole story. Please check the urls cited > > > > http://www.aztlan.net/leyazteca.htm > > > > http://www.aztlan.net/drinko.htm > > > > Publishing the notorious antisemitic *Protocols of the Elders of > > > > Zion" as well as several antisemitic articles clearly shows the > > > > nature of this publication > > > > > > > > >Dear Nahuat-l List Members: > > > > > > > > > >We were offended by an individual on this > > > > >list who identified him or herself as > > > > >micc . Name calling and > > > > >labeling of users of the list is > > > > >unprofessional. We have been subscribers > > > > >for a long time but have never posted. > > > > >We have been contented in just reading > > > > >the comments and learning a little > > > > >Nahuatl along the way. La Voz de Aztlan > > > > >is a bilingual news service and our > > > > >subscribers are mostly Mexicans in the > > > > >southwest U.S. and in Mexico. This > > > > >person has insulted us. We are not > > > > >insulting anyone here. This type of > > > > >abuse should not be permitted in an > > > > >academic oriented discussion group > > > > >such as this one. We hope that the > > > > >majority of the group does not support > > > > >this person and allow us equal access > > > > >to the discussion here on the Aztec > > > > >Culture and language. > > > > > > > > > > From mdmorris at indiana.edu Thu May 24 02:46:01 2001 From: mdmorris at indiana.edu (Mark David Morris) Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 21:46:01 -0500 Subject: "La Ley Azteca" - Re: homosexualidad y lesbianismo In-Reply-To: <3B0C5503.AA77891E@home.com> Message-ID: List People, Conditionally, I have no problem with the Voz de Aztlan posting to this list, especially for the purpose of gaining accurate information about important social issues; however, the attitude expressed in the organization's last posting and the organization's overall tone toward promoting ethnic cohesion by attacking other minorities is a very serious concern. By all means, however, the exchanges between Mexicayotl and Aztlan need to cease now on this list. We have all worked hard over the years to keep this a list of academic exchange on the Nahuatl language and Nahua culture. Please respect that ethic. best, Mark Morris ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ La muerte tiene permiso a todo MDM, PhD Candidate Dept. of History, Indiana Univ. From mclssaa2 at fs2.mt.umist.ac.uk Thu May 24 08:36:09 2001 From: mclssaa2 at fs2.mt.umist.ac.uk (Anthony Appleyard) Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 08:36:09 GMT Subject: "La Ley Azteca" In-Reply-To: <3B0C47F8.E0ADDA57@home.com> Message-ID: Various people wrote:- > The reason I brought this up is the fact that if you "disagree" with > this type of rabid, angry and hateful ideology, therefor you must be > "one of them" ... (1) I see nothing wrong with someone being pro-Zionist. (I am Christian.) (2) Haven't some people hear of the rights of neutrals to be left out of other people's quarrels? (3) The status of non-standard sex in Aztec society is one thing; the rights and wrongs of doing it as it is now, is very off-topic here. > The "protocols" are published for information and discussion only. > Many of us Mexicans are not familiar with them. Is it against the law to > publish them? The Protocols of the Elders of Zion are an old well-known notorious forgery. There is no need to confuse people by publishing them as a true document, as they are not true information. Anyway, the rights and wrongs of such things as they mention, are off-topic here. > What does this have to do with Nahuatl? Ditto. > ... La Voz de Aztlan is a bilingual news service and our subscribers are > mostly Mexicans in the southwest U.S. and in Mexico. ... I looked at http: // www.aztlan.net , and it said that they have no radio or TV transmission now. I couldn't find any Nahuatl matter on their web site. From gingeriw at stjohns.edu Wed May 23 22:57:16 2001 From: gingeriw at stjohns.edu (Gingerich Willard P.) Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 18:57:16 -0400 Subject: icnopilli / icnopilti Message-ID: Any consideration of Nahua ideas of merit must also look at the = concept-clusters in the Florentine, especially Bk VI, around occurrences = of the phrase in iilhuil in imaceual [A & D translate "the desert, the = merit" (poss.)], and in iilhuil, in imaceual, in inemac (A & D: "the = desert, the merit, the lot" of someone: 198 & 203). Also note icnoiotl = ilhuil, inemac iez (A & D: "misery will be his desert, his lot": 198). Chapter 36, describing the consultation with in tonalpouhque, in = tlamatinime on the occasion of a birth, is an especially intense = meditation on the interactions of tonalli, birth, personal destiny, = behavior, and merit. Chapter 20 is another intense discourse on misery, merit and mercy: in = icnonemiliztli, in nepechtecaliztli: ioan in nenomaiximachiliztli, inic = uellamachtilo in teteo, ioan in tlalticpac tlaca (A&D: "the humble life, = the bowing, the knowledge of one's self in order to be pleasing to the = gods and to man": 105). Humility and the knowledge of self which misery = and suffering appear to promote are inseparable from divine favor and = the Tlahtoani's munificence. =20 But perhaps the English word "merit" has served to conflate separate and = distinct, but interactive, Nahua concepts in these passages? Context is = crucial. Willard Gingerich St. John's University 8000 Utopia Parkway Jamaica, NY 11439 (718)990-1442 (718)990-1894 FAX gingeriw at stjohns.edu From schwallr at selway.umt.edu Thu May 24 14:28:39 2001 From: schwallr at selway.umt.edu (John F. Schwaller) Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 08:28:39 -0600 Subject: Friends of Uto-Aztecan Conference, July 8-9, 2001 Message-ID: PRELIMINARY PROGRAM 2001 Friends of Uto-Aztecan Working Conference / Taller de los Amigos de las Lenguas Yutoaztecas Santa Barbara Museum of Natural History Santa Barbara, CA, July 8-9, 2001 Sunday, July 8 [SSILA -FUAC joint session 9:00- 1:15, University of California-Santa Barbara] 12:15 "Narrative Gestures, Geographical Maps, and Mental Maps in Copalillo Guerrero" Tezozomoc, California State University at Northridge 12:45 "Diccionario yaqui-español: A Lexicographic Project" Zarina Estrada Fernández, Universidad de Sonora FUAC Session: Santa Barbara Museum of Natural History 4:00 "Cora Clause Structure" Verónica Vázquez, Seminario de Lenguas Indígenas, Instituto de Investigaciones Filológicas, UNAM 4:30 "Discontinuous Constituents In Cupeño" Jane H. Hill, University of Arizona 5:00 "Shoshoni Accusatives" Dirk Elzinga, University of Utah 5:30 "Unravelling Numic Aspect" John E.McLaughlin, Utah State University 6:00-6:30 Coffee Break 6:30 Presentation of Uto-Aztecan Structural, Temporal, and Geographic Perspectives, Papers in Memory of Wick R. Miller by the Friends of Uto-Aztecan Monday, July 9 Santa Barbara Museum of Natural History Morning 9:30 "Foot Structure in S. Tepehuan" Lilian Guerrero, SUNY-Buffalo and the Universidad de Sonora 10:00 "Paradigmas léxicos en el ŒVocabulario en castellano-mexicano de Gerónimo Cortés y Zedeño" Rosa H.Yáñez, Universidad de Guadalajara 10:30 ""Diccionario derivacional del guarijío: problemas metodológicos" Ana Aurora Medina Murillo, Universidad de Sonora 11:00 "Luiseño Couplets, A Naming Strategy" Mercedes Montes de Oca, Seminario de Lenguas Indígenas, Instituto de Investigaciones Filológicas, UNAM 11:30 "Comanche ŒCoffee¹ " Willem J.de Reuse, University of North Texas Afternoon Santa Barbara Museum of Natural History 2:30 "Tataviam/Uto-Aztecan Comparisons" John Johnson, Santa Barbara Museum of Natural History and Pamela Munro, UCLA 3:00 "Additional Cognate Sets" Brian Stubbs, College of Eastern Utah, San Juan Campus 3:30 "Which Uto-Aztecan branch is the most conservative?" Karen Dakin, Seminario de Lenguas Indígenas, Instituto de Investigaciones Filológicas, UNAM 4:00 "Alexis Manaster Ramer¹s Model of Uto-Aztecan Phonology": Alexis Manaster Ramer, presented by Brian Stubbs John Frederick Schwaller schwallr at selway.umt.edu Associate Provost 406-243-4722 The University of Montana FAX 406-243-5937 http://www.umt.edu/provost/ From War14655 at aol.com Thu May 24 15:35:30 2001 From: War14655 at aol.com (War14655 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 11:35:30 EDT Subject: icnopilli / icnopilti Message-ID: Does anyone on the list-serve speak nahuatl? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From micc at home.com Thu May 24 15:58:25 2001 From: micc at home.com (micc) Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 08:58:25 -0700 Subject: "La Ley Azteca" - Re: homosexualidad y lesbianismo Message-ID: Dear Mark, I agree. In the past years i and others have been attacked on this list by people with political agendas that try to use the academic study of Nahuatl to further their causes. Over the past 2 years that I have been a member, Yaoqchtli at something, tezkatlipokasomething@????, and others come to mind. But as the song says: "I am still standing..." thanks you, mario e. aguilar Mark David Morris wrote: > List People, > > Conditionally, I have no problem with the Voz de Aztlan posting to this > list, especially for the purpose of gaining accurate information about > important social issues; however, the attitude expressed in the > organization's last posting and the organization's overall tone toward > promoting ethnic cohesion by attacking other minorities is a very serious > concern. By all means, however, the exchanges between Mexicayotl and > Aztlan need to cease now on this list. We have all worked hard over the > years to keep this a list of academic exchange on the Nahuatl language and > Nahua culture. Please respect that ethic. > > best, > Mark Morris > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > La muerte tiene permiso a todo > > MDM, PhD Candidate > Dept. of History, Indiana Univ. > From schwallr at selway.umt.edu Thu May 24 16:57:00 2001 From: schwallr at selway.umt.edu (John F. Schwaller) Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 10:57:00 -0600 Subject: Nahua Newsletter Message-ID: The most recent number of the Nahua Newsletter is now in the mail. It contains much useful information, as always. Past issues are also available on the web: http://www.ipfw.edu/soca/nahua.htm For more information contact: Alan R. Sandstrom sandstro at ipfw.edu John Frederick Schwaller schwallr at selway.umt.edu Associate Provost 406-243-4722 The University of Montana FAX 406-243-5937 http://www.umt.edu/provost/ From LaVoz at Aztlan.Net Thu May 24 17:44:32 2001 From: LaVoz at Aztlan.Net (La Voz de Aztlan) Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 10:44:32 -0700 Subject: "La Ley Azteca" In-Reply-To: <4C895625A1F@fs2.mt.umist.ac.uk> Message-ID: Estimado Sr. Anthony Appleyard: Thank you for your level-headed commentary on the little problem that arose when La Voz de Aztlan made an inquiry to the list. We would like to start all over again, now that everyone agrees that what we have published on our website should not matter when we make inquiries to this list on Nahuatl and other aspects of the Aztec culture. La Voz de Aztlan is interested in this list because we are promoting the teaching of Nahuatl in some of our public schools in Los Angeles County. Some of our schools are getting immigrant children who's primary language is Nahuatl. We believe that teachers assigned to educate these kids should at least have a rudimentary knowledge of Nahuatl. We perceive that there is a lot of brain power on the list otherwise we would not be wasting our time. We are interesting is creating a software program that can translate Nahuatl into English and Spanish. We have organized what we have called "The Nahuatl Project" and are participating in this list in order to advance the project. There has, however, been commentary on this list to the affect that our ancient indigenous ancestors were cannibals. We agree that in order to have a deep understanding of a language, we must also have intimate knowledge of the culture that engendered it. There are many false myths floating around about the Aztecs, specially among some Chicanos in Aztlan that are in the process of finding their true identity. There has been some meddling in this process by outsiders that have a political agenda. That is the reason we made the inquiry on "La Ley Azteca". >>From now on we hope to focus primarily on Nahuatl and will attempt to abstain from bringing forth controversial issues. Hasta La Victoria Siempre Ernesto Cienfuegos Editor-in-Chief La Voz de Aztlan ********************* On Thu, 24 May 2001 08:36:09 GMT "Anthony Appleyard" wrote: > Various people wrote:- > > > The reason I brought this up is the fact that if you "disagree" with > > this type of rabid, angry and hateful ideology, therefor you must be > > "one of them" ... > > (1) I see nothing wrong with someone being pro-Zionist. (I am Christian.) > (2) Haven't some people hear of the rights of neutrals to be left out of other > people's quarrels? > (3) The status of non-standard sex in Aztec society is one thing; the rights > and wrongs of doing it as it is now, is very off-topic here. > > > The "protocols" are published for information and discussion only. > > Many of us Mexicans are not familiar with them. Is it against the law to > > publish them? > > The Protocols of the Elders of Zion are an old well-known notorious forgery. > There is no need to confuse people by publishing them as a true document, as > they are not true information. Anyway, the rights and wrongs of such things as > they mention, are off-topic here. > > > What does this have to do with Nahuatl? > > Ditto. > > > ... La Voz de Aztlan is a bilingual news service and our subscribers are > > mostly Mexicans in the southwest U.S. and in Mexico. ... > > I looked at http: // www.aztlan.net , and it said that they have no radio or > TV transmission now. I couldn't find any Nahuatl matter on their web site. > From rude at stanford.edu Thu May 24 18:02:51 2001 From: rude at stanford.edu (Rudiger V. Busto) Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 11:02:51 -0700 Subject: Nahuatl and Cultural Nationalism Message-ID: It is clear from the recent exchange with Voz de Aztlan that the attention to and controversies over the "accuracy" of Aztec culture remains crucial to sectors of Chicano nationalists. While I disagree with the tone of Voz, members of the list must be aware of the impact philological "evidence" has on the construction, maintenance and contestation of Chicano expressive and political cultures. The first generation of Chicano activists, artists and scholars were, for example, heavily influenced by Leon-Portilla's _Aztec Thought and Culture_. Chicano students in my courses are hungry for translations of Nahuatl texts, especially the cosmogonies "The Birth of Huitzilopochtli", "Creation of the Fifth Sun", and "Los Cinco Soles" and especially the mysteries in and around the Nican Mopohua. We also find re-inscriptions of these stories in Chicana feminist art and literature (for example, Cherrie Moraga's interpretation of the Birth of Huitzilopochtli, and her conjectures about "El Sexto Sol" in her book _The Last Generation_. -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Rudy V. Busto rude at stanford.edu Assistant Professor 650.723.0465 (office) Religious Studies 650.725.1476 (fax) Stanford University Stanford, CA 94305-2165 "...who knows what the ostrich sees in the sand ? " --- Samuel Beckett John Frederick Schwaller schwallr at selway.umt.edu Associate Provost 406-243-4722 The University of Montana FAX 406-243-5937 http://www.umt.edu/provost/ From uncledelphi at softhome.net Thu May 24 21:01:54 2001 From: uncledelphi at softhome.net (Austin Rogers) Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 16:01:54 -0500 Subject: Nahuatl Question Message-ID: Good afternoon, Listeros! My name is Austin Rogers. I am a mesitzo college student in Alabama. I speak English, Spanish, and Japanese, and eventually plan to add Nahuatl to that list after graduation. I am currently writing a book that contains a smattering of Nahuatl, and I would like to ask for some help. Essentially, I would like to know what two words are in Nahuatl. The two words are "fact" and "feeling." For "fact," I am looking for something that implies objectivity and perhaps empiricism. For "feeling," I am looking for something that implies sensuality. Please pardon me if this request seems a bit childish, but at least it should not be offensive. I would appreciate any help in this matter. Thanks much, Austin Rogers uncledelphi at softhome.net From War14655 at aol.com Fri May 25 02:32:46 2001 From: War14655 at aol.com (War14655 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 22:32:46 EDT Subject: "La Ley Azteca" - Re: homosexualidad y lesbianismo Message-ID: I am still standing too -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From j.kremers at let.kun.nl Fri May 25 11:16:34 2001 From: j.kremers at let.kun.nl (Joost Kremers) Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 13:16:34 +0200 Subject: Particle "in" with nouns Message-ID: hello all, i have a question about a small point concerning Nahuatl grammar. my own knowledge of Nahuatl is still rudimentary, and the grammars i have do not seem to give an answer. hopefully someone on the list will be able to help me. the particle "in" can apparently be used before a noun and as such is sometimes compared to the definite determiner "the". my question is the following: can "in" also be used before a possessed noun? e.g.: a) in inan `his/her mother' b) in ichpocatl in inan `the girl's mother' or are these structures to be considered ungrammatical? similarly, can a demonstrative "inin" or "inon" be used before a possessed noun? e.g.: c) inin inan `this mother of his/hers' i would appreciate any comments you may have. thanks, joost kremers -- Joost Kremers, M.A. University of Nijmegen Department of Languages and Cultures of the Middle-East PO Box 9103 6500 HD Nijmegen tel: 024-3612996 fax: 024-3611972 http://joostkremers.nijmegennet.nl From maestas at ccwf.cc.utexas.edu Fri May 25 17:25:47 2001 From: maestas at ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (maestas at ccwf.cc.utexas.edu) Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 12:25:47 -0500 Subject: icnopilli / icnopilt Message-ID: It may be difficult to approach this by looking at English language based concepts of merit and may be more productive to consider Spanish and Mexican Catholic approaches to "merecimiento". Because of the Catholic overtones related to "merecimiento" it is based upon divine intervention that is not as far removed culturally as attempts to get at merit through an understanding of comparable Nahuatl concepts. In the Catholic Codexes of Sahagun and Duran it appears as though both friars engage productively in what Lockhart (1991) calls "Double Mistaken Identity" in which a concept is used in ways similar enough to grant a semblance of mutual understanding but in ways different enough to allow Nahuas and Spaniards to continue along with minimal changes in their worldview. Perhaps there are direct terms that were used to relate the Nahua and Spanish concepts of "merit" that provide clues to understanding the points of difference and similarity that allowed "Double Mistaken Identity" to function say in conversion and educational processes or in the transition from Nahua to Nahua-Spanish mixed forms of political and economic control, i.e. Altepetl (Calpulli) system to Cabildo system. To bring this closer to the present: Conchero Dance groups in Mexico and the US have highlighted the concept of Merecimiento as a cornerstone for spititual and community development of what many understand to be a modern manifestation of Indigenous Mexican and Spanish mestizaje. Martha Stone (1974) and Francis Toor (1948) describe this to a certain degree in Mexico and Andres Segura (1973; 1980) and Maestas (1998) describe the spread of these traditions into the US. It is possible also that MICCs website www.mexicayotl.com may have access to some of these references and additional information. Enrique Maestas On Wed, 23 May 2001, Gingerich Willard P. wrote: > Any consideration of Nahua ideas of merit must also look at the = > concept-clusters in the Florentine, especially Bk VI, around occurrences = > of the phrase in iilhuil in imaceual [A & D translate "the desert, the = > merit" (poss.)], and in iilhuil, in imaceual, in inemac (A & D: "the = > desert, the merit, the lot" of someone: 198 & 203). Also note icnoiotl = > ilhuil, inemac iez (A & D: "misery will be his desert, his lot": 198). > Chapter 36, describing the consultation with in tonalpouhque, in = > tlamatinime on the occasion of a birth, is an especially intense = > meditation on the interactions of tonalli, birth, personal destiny, = > behavior, and merit. > Chapter 20 is another intense discourse on misery, merit and mercy: in = > icnonemiliztli, in nepechtecaliztli: ioan in nenomaiximachiliztli, inic = > uellamachtilo in teteo, ioan in tlalticpac tlaca (A&D: "the humble life, = > the bowing, the knowledge of one's self in order to be pleasing to the = > gods and to man": 105). Humility and the knowledge of self which misery = > and suffering appear to promote are inseparable from divine favor and = > the Tlahtoani's munificence. =20 > But perhaps the English word "merit" has served to conflate separate and = > distinct, but interactive, Nahua concepts in these passages? Context is = > crucial. > > > Willard Gingerich > St. John's University > 8000 Utopia Parkway > Jamaica, NY 11439 > (718)990-1442 > (718)990-1894 FAX > gingeriw at stjohns.edu > > From micc at home.com Fri May 25 23:04:18 2001 From: micc at home.com (micc) Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 16:04:18 -0700 Subject: icnopilli / icnopilt Message-ID: An aside to Enrique's excellent comment is that the "merecimiento" of la danza Azteca is also based on adherence to the "ancestral" lineage of a person's dance circle (las animas conquistadoras de nuestros antepasados). Here is is not only divine intervention as much as it is the intercession (and thus merit of the intercession) of the ancestral spirits that come down into the dancers during the dance ceremony. I don't know if that makes any sense.... mario e. aguilar www.mexicayotl.org maestas at ccwf.cc.utexas.edu wrote: > It may be difficult to approach this by looking at English language based > concepts of merit and may be more productive to consider Spanish and > Mexican Catholic approaches to "merecimiento". Because of the Catholic > overtones related to "merecimiento" it is based upon divine intervention > that is not as far removed culturally as attempts to get at merit through > an understanding of comparable Nahuatl concepts. In the Catholic Codexes > of Sahagun and Duran it appears as though both friars engage productively > in what Lockhart (1991) calls "Double Mistaken Identity" in which a > concept is used in ways similar enough to grant a semblance of mutual > understanding but in ways different enough to allow Nahuas and Spaniards > to continue along with minimal changes in their worldview. Perhaps there > are direct terms that were used to relate the Nahua and Spanish concepts > of "merit" that provide clues to understanding the points of difference > and similarity that allowed "Double Mistaken Identity" to function say in > conversion and educational processes or in the transition from Nahua to > Nahua-Spanish mixed forms of political and economic control, i.e. Altepetl > (Calpulli) system to Cabildo system. > To bring this closer to the present: Conchero Dance groups in Mexico and > the US have highlighted the concept of Merecimiento as a cornerstone for > spititual and community development of what many understand to be a modern > manifestation of Indigenous Mexican and Spanish mestizaje. Martha Stone > (1974) and Francis Toor (1948) describe this to a certain degree in Mexico > and Andres Segura (1973; 1980) and Maestas (1998) describe the spread of > these traditions into the US. It is possible also that MICCs website > www.mexicayotl.com may have access to some of these references and > additional information. > Enrique Maestas > > On Wed, 23 May 2001, Gingerich Willard P. wrote: > > Any consideration of Nahua ideas of merit must also look at the = > > concept-clusters in the Florentine, especially Bk VI, around occurrences = > > of the phrase in iilhuil in imaceual [A & D translate "the desert, the = > > merit" (poss.)], and in iilhuil, in imaceual, in inemac (A & D: "the = > > desert, the merit, the lot" of someone: 198 & 203). Also note icnoiotl = > > ilhuil, inemac iez (A & D: "misery will be his desert, his lot": 198). > > Chapter 36, describing the consultation with in tonalpouhque, in = > > tlamatinime on the occasion of a birth, is an especially intense = > > meditation on the interactions of tonalli, birth, personal destiny, = > > behavior, and merit. > > Chapter 20 is another intense discourse on misery, merit and mercy: in = > > icnonemiliztli, in nepechtecaliztli: ioan in nenomaiximachiliztli, inic = > > uellamachtilo in teteo, ioan in tlalticpac tlaca (A&D: "the humble life, = > > the bowing, the knowledge of one's self in order to be pleasing to the = > > gods and to man": 105). Humility and the knowledge of self which misery = > > and suffering appear to promote are inseparable from divine favor and = > > the Tlahtoani's munificence. =20 > > But perhaps the English word "merit" has served to conflate separate and = > > distinct, but interactive, Nahua concepts in these passages? Context is = > > crucial. > > > > > > Willard Gingerich > > St. John's University > > 8000 Utopia Parkway > > Jamaica, NY 11439 > > (718)990-1442 > > (718)990-1894 FAX > > gingeriw at stjohns.edu > > > > From cipactonal at starmedia.com Sat May 26 19:09:12 2001 From: cipactonal at starmedia.com (cipactonal at starmedia.com) Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 15:09:12 EDT Subject: Archivo General de la Nacion, Mexico Message-ID: En el Archivo General de la Nacion, Mexico, se esta llevando a cabo la busqueda de todos los documentos en lengua nahuatl del grupo documental Tierras. Dichas imagenes se estan digitalizando para, posteriormente, hacer un disco compacto con las imagenes y descripciones breves del contenido de los documentos en nahuatl. Posteriormente se hara lo mismo con otros grupos documentales como Hospital de Jesus; Inquisicion; Indios; Civil; Ayuntamiento; Derechos Parroquiales y Bienes Nacionales. Todos ellos correspondientes a la Galeria 4, que es en donde estan los documentos del Virreinato. Tambien se hara este trabajo con los gruos documentales de la galeria 5, que es en donde esta la documentacion del siglo XIX. Espero que esta noticia sea del agrado de ustedes. Espero sus comentarios y sugerencias. Ignacio Silva Cruz cipactonal at starmedia.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Obtén gratis tu cuenta de correo en StarMedia Email. ¡Regístrate hoy mismo!. http://www.starmedia.com/email ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Amapohuani at aol.com Sun May 27 01:06:35 2001 From: Amapohuani at aol.com (Amapohuani at aol.com) Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 21:06:35 EDT Subject: Archivo General de la Nacion, Mexico Message-ID: In a message dated 5/26/01 12:25:53 PM, cipactonal at starmedia.com writes: << En el Archivo General de la Nacion, Mexico, se esta llevando a cabo la busqueda de todos los documentos en lengua nahuatl del grupo documental Tierras. Dichas imagenes se estan digitalizando para, posteriormente, hacer un disco compacto con las imagenes y descripciones breves del contenido de los documentos en nahuatl. Posteriormente se hara lo mismo con otros grupos documentales como Hospital de Jesus; Inquisicion; Indios; Civil; Ayuntamiento; Derechos Parroquiales y Bienes Nacionales. Todos ellos correspondientes a la Galeria 4, que es en donde estan los documentos del Virreinato. Tambien se hara este trabajo con los gruos documentales de la galeria 5, que es en donde esta la documentacion del siglo XIX. Espero que esta noticia sea del agrado de ustedes. Espero sus comentarios y sugerencias. Ignacio Silva Cruz >> Wonderful news! Ye ixquich. Barry D. Sell From notoca at hotmail.com Wed May 30 02:05:58 2001 From: notoca at hotmail.com (Chichiltic Coyotl) Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 10:05:58 +0800 Subject: Nahuatl Question Message-ID: Hi Would tlae:lpa:quiliztli suffice? It means something like, "the act of experiencing pleasure with strong emotions (with something)." Stems: tla = something (prefix) e:lli = liver, internal organ, association with strong emotions pa:qu(i) = to experience pleasure -liz = verb noun maker suffix -tli = absolutive suffix EZR _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. From notoca at hotmail.com Wed May 30 02:14:58 2001 From: notoca at hotmail.com (Chichiltic Coyotl) Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 10:14:58 +0800 Subject: Particle "in" with nouns Message-ID: Hi May I suggest an another form: ina:n in ichpo:catl - the girl's mother (i.e. her mother, the daughter). EZR >From: Joost Kremers >b) in ichpocatl in inan > `the girl's mother' > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. From mdmorris at indiana.edu Thu May 31 15:17:38 2001 From: mdmorris at indiana.edu (Mark David Morris) Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 10:17:38 -0500 Subject: Nahuatl Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: List, The message that follows was redacted from memory from some notes I made last night; hence, it gets a little tangled on one of its points, but I hope it contributes. Regarding Chilchiltic Coyotl's suggestion that tlaellipaquiliztli could serve for feeling, I wrote him or her yesterday that I thought the "e" of elli would drop combined with the generic object prefix tla-. After consulting Simeon's dictionary at home, I learned I was mistaken. But, now I have other questions. There are some composed words beginning witht eh two syllables tlael, such as tlaelehuia, (I`m working without notes so I may have mispelled the word) that are formed of tla- object prefix and elli - chest, liver, something with life; this word I want to point out is listed as "gemir" or "groan, yelp" and I take it to mean "raise up the chest," (and not desire if I have mispelled the word). The tlaelpaquiliztli suggested by Chilchiltic is glossed by Simeon as related to sensuality with negative connotations. My questions are if someone knows a way to determine if these two tlael syllables reprsent tla- object prefix and elli (chest, liver, etc.) or the derogatory prefix tlael, found in things such as tlaeltlacatl, bad fellow, and 2) if this derogatory tlael is not itself composed of tla- elli and as a derogatory term represents an extension of semantic meaning at some point in the language's history (the Franciscans, the Mexica?)? textually yours, Mark Morris P.S. Due to some significant mistakes or continuing doubts in my translation of the letter I presented to the list last week, I owe a follow up explanation that I hope to get to on Saturday. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ La muerte tiene permiso a todo MDM, PhD Candidate Dept. of History, Indiana Univ. From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx Thu May 31 15:53:41 2001 From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright) Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 09:53:41 -0600 Subject: Tlilli tlapalli Message-ID: Does anyone have any idea what could have been the reason Dibble and Anderson (Florentine Codex VI: 259) translated the metaphor "Intlil intlapal" as "their black, their red" rather than "their black, their colors"? The translation of "tlapalli" as "red" keeps cropping up in modern sources. I can't remember where all I've seen it; another example is in Garibay's vocabulary, in the Porrua edition of the Castillian text of the Florentine Codex; "Tlapallan" is translated as "Lugar del rojo". Molina (I, 27r; II 130v) makes it clear that "tlapalli" and the radical "tlapal-" refer to pigments for painting or dying in general, regardless of hue; the same is true of Sahagun (Florentine Codex XI: 245). Why red? The only possible explanation I can come up with is that "colorado, -a" in old Castillian was used for red, and retains this meaning today, especially in informal speech; this could have led to imprecise translations. Comments regarding the deeper meanings of this metaphor, or possible modern survivals, would also be greatly appreciated. Best regards, David Wright -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karttu at nantucket.net Thu May 31 19:28:41 2001 From: karttu at nantucket.net (Frances Karttunen) Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 15:28:41 -0400 Subject: Tlilli tlapalli Message-ID: Perhaps it would be more helpful to understand tli:lli, tlapalli as 'the black ink, the colored paint' that is, the two elements used in creating meaningful representations on amate paper or deerskin screenfolds. Tli:lli as 'ink' derives from 'soot.' Tlapalli also can mean 'ink' as well as paint, but probably not black ink. Its core meaning seems to be derived from palli, a type of clay used in dying cloth. ---------- From: David Wright To: Nahuat-l Subject: Tlilli tlapalli Date: Thu, May 31, 2001, 11:53 AM Does anyone have any idea what could have been the reason Dibble and Anderson (Florentine Codex VI: 259) translated the metaphor "Intlil intlapal" as "their black, their red" rather than "their black, their colors"? The translation of "tlapalli" as "red" keeps cropping up in modern sources. I can't remember where all I've seen it; another example is in Garibay's vocabulary, in the Porrua edition of the Castillian text of the Florentine Codex; "Tlapallan" is translated as "Lugar del rojo". Molina (I, 27r; II 130v) makes it clear that "tlapalli" and the radical "tlapal-" refer to pigments for painting or dying in general, regardless of hue; the same is true of Sahagun (Florentine Codex XI: 245). Why red? The only possible explanation I can come up with is that "colorado, -a" in old Castillian was used for red, and retains this meaning today, especially in informal speech; this could have led to imprecise translations. Comments regarding the deeper meanings of this metaphor, or possible modern survivals, would also be greatly appreciated. Best regards, David Wright -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karttu at nantucket.net Thu May 31 19:45:16 2001 From: karttu at nantucket.net (Frances Karttunen) Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 15:45:16 -0400 Subject: Nahuatl Question Message-ID: >I thought the "e" of > elli would drop combined with the generic object prefix tla-. After > consulting Simeon's dictionary at home, I learned I was mistaken. The reason the "e" doesn't drop after the prefix tla- is that it is a long vowel. The verb e:le:huia: is composed of e:l-li and e:huia: < e:hua. E:le:huia: means to desire something or someone and really does have to do with the liver, which was considered the seat of emotions. (The heart being the seat of volition.) The other "tlael-" with negative connotations is actually tlahyel-. Tlahyelli means something dirty, foul. The reason these two look alike in Simeon's and Molina's dictionaries is because neither indicates vowel length or the presence or absence of "saltillo" (glottal stop) that I have written here with an "h." From owner-nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu Thu May 3 17:44:02 2001 From: owner-nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu (owner-nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu) Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 11:44:02 -0600 Subject: No subject Message-ID: We are nearing the end of the academic year. Since many subscribers are students or faculty and may be gone for part of the summer, I request that you please remember to unsubscribe from the list before leaving town or turning your computer off. This can be done by sending this message: Sender: owner-nahuat-l at majordomo.umt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nahuat-l at majordomo.umt.edu unsubscribe nahuat-l to this address: majordomo at majordomo.umt.edu Over the summer the discussion list will be moving to a new server. I am working with the technical folks to make this as simple as possible so that none of you will be inconvenienced. As of July 1, I will not longer be at The University of Montana, but will become the Vice Chancellor and Dean of the University of Minnesota, Morris. Consequently this discussion list, and the associated web site, will be moving in late June - early July. J. F. Schwaller List owner John Frederick Schwaller schwallr at selway.umt.edu Associate Provost 406-243-4722 The University of Montana FAX 406-243-5937 http://www.umt.edu/provost/ From ksmith at umail.ucsb.edu Mon May 7 16:30:54 2001 From: ksmith at umail.ucsb.edu (Kevin P Smith) Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 09:30:54 -0700 Subject: Ahuachpitzactzin Message-ID: Can anyone translate the name, Ahuachpitzactzin? Any and all help would be much appreciated. ksmith at umail.ucsb.edu From campbel at indiana.edu Mon May 7 17:15:36 2001 From: campbel at indiana.edu (r. joe campbell) Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 12:15:36 -0500 Subject: Ahuachpitzactzin In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Kevin, It's "fine drizzle" (with respect): ahhuachtli drizzle, dew pitza:ctli something thin (from 'pitza:hua' "make something narrow, slender") tzin honorific suffix Joe On Mon, 7 May 2001, Kevin P Smith wrote: > Can anyone translate the name, Ahuachpitzactzin? Any and all help would be > much appreciated. > > ksmith at umail.ucsb.edu > > From davius_sanctex at terra.es Mon May 7 17:18:45 2001 From: davius_sanctex at terra.es (David Sanchez) Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 19:18:45 +0200 Subject: Ahuachpitzactzin Message-ID: > Can anyone translate the name, Ahuachpitzactzin? Any and all help would be > much appreciated. I'm not sure ... but this name can be reinterpreted as Ahhuach-pitzac-tzin /ahwatx-pitsak-tsin/, that is "something thin and long that is covered with dew" or "damp pole (?)". Another possibility could be a:-huach-pitzac-tzin /?-watx-pitsak-tsin/ that is "water seed of some kind of tree (pitzac-)" ... but really I don't know if some of these two translations is the correct translation for the name Ahuachpitzactzin. David Sanchez From campbel at indiana.edu Mon May 7 18:21:44 2001 From: campbel at indiana.edu (r. joe campbell) Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 13:21:44 -0500 Subject: Ahuachpitzactzin In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Follow-up on the sequence 'pitz' -- since it occurs in several morphemes and not all occurrences of it are easy to recognize, I collected some of them (all of them from the Florentine Codex). Joe pi:tza*** (blow) apitza , c-. he purges it, he defecates it. . apitza , m[o]-. he has bloody diarrhea. . apitza , m[o]-. he has diarrhea; they have diarrhea. . apitza , nin[o]-. I get diarrhea; I have diarrhea. . apitzal , i-. his diarrhea; their diarrhea. . apitzalli. diarrhea, fluid intestinal evacuation. . apitzalti , te-. it causes diarrhea. . apitzaltic. something which causes diarrhea. . apitzaltiz , c-. it will give him diarrhea. . apitzaltontli. little bit of diarrhea. . mapipitzoa. he whistles; it whistles; there is whistling; they whistle. . mapipitzoani. one who whistles with his fingers; shrill whistler; whistler. . mapipitzoliztli. act of whistling through the fingers. . pitz , omitz-. she cast you. . pitz , omo-. it was cast. . pitza , mo-. it becomes inflamed; it blows; it flares up; it flared; it is cast; it is blown; it is melted; it is inflamed; they are cast. . pitza , nic-. I blow it; I cast it. . pitza , qui-. he blows it; it blows on him; she blows it; she casts him; they blow it; they cast it; they blow it off. . pitza , tla-. he blows a pipe; he casts [i.e.; metal]; it blows a trumpet; they blow; they blow (e.g.; trumpets); they blow [e.g.; trumpet shell]; they blow trumpets. . pitzalli , tla-. act of blowing; flute; something which is cast [i.e.; metal]; something cast [e.g.; something which is blown [e.g.; trumpet]. . pitzalnamacac , tla-. seller of cast metal objects. . pitzalo , tla-. flutes are blown; musical instruments are blown; shell trumpets are blown; there is blowing of shell trumpets; trumpets are blown; there is blowing. . pitzalo. they are forged. . pitzaloc , o-. it was cast. . pitzaloni. blower; something which can be cast; something that can be cast; something that can be blown. . pitzalotiuh , tla-. there is going blowing musical instruments. . pitzaloya , tla-. there was blowing of trumpets; trumpets were blown. . pitzaloz , tla-. there will be sounding of trumpets. . pitzalpan , tla-. time of blowing of trumpets. . pitzaya , qui-. he blew it [i.e., trumpet]; they cast it. . pitzaya , tla-. they sounded a trumpet. . pitzaz , qui-. he will blow it. . pitzque , oqui-. they molded it. . pitztiquiza , qui-. he quickly blows it. . pitztiquiza , tla-. he quickly whistles. . teccizpichilia , qui-. they blow shell trumpets for him. . teocuitlapitza , ni-. I cast gold. . teocuitlapitzaya. they cast (past) gold. . teocuitlapitzque. gold-workers; goldcasters; goldsmiths. . teocuitlapitzqui. gold-worker; goldcaster; goldsmith. . tepozpitza , ni-. I cast copper. . tepozpitza. he casts copper. . tepozpitzque. metal casters. . tepozpitzqui. coppercaster; copper caster; coppersmith. . tlepitza. he blows the fire; it blows the fire. . xalpitza , ni-. I blow sand. . pitza:hua*** (become slender, make slender) acapitzac , i-. his reed stalk. . acapitzactli. long reed. . ahhuachpitzactli. thin drizzle. . apitzactli. stream; thin stream of water. . apitzactotonti. little streams. . chiampitzahuac. small chia seed. . cuapitzahua. it becomes slender at the top. . cuapitzahuac. narrow at the top; pointed at the head; slender at the tip; slender at the top; thin at the top. . cuapitzahuacan , i-. its tip. . cuapitzahuaya , i-. its slender end. . cuappitzahuac. slender tree. . ixpipitzahuac. slender. . ixpitzahuac. fine, tiny; small. . mapipitzahuac. having slender leaves; having slender branches. . mapitzahuac. having slender leaves. . matzotzopazpitzahuaya , to-. slender part of our forearm. . mecapitzahuac. like a slender cord. . metzpitzahuaya , to-. slender part of our thigh. . nelhuayopitzahuac. having slender roots. . ohpitzacquetza , n-. I follow the trail. . ohpitzactli. trail, path; narrow road. . olopitzahuac. having a slender cob. . olpitzahuac. thin piece of rubber. . opitzacochpana , n-. I sweep the trail. . opitzactli. narrow road; path; trail. . otlapitzactli. long stout cane. . petlapitzahuac. narrow mat. . pipitzahuac. slender; thin. . pitzactic. slender. . pitzactontli. little and thin; rather thin; small and narrow; small and slender. . pitzactotonti. small and slender. . pitzahua , nic-. I make it thin; I make it narrow; I narrow it. . pitzahua , tla-. he sings in falsetto; it becomes thin; it becomes narrow; it becomes slender; it howls in a high-pitched voice; it narrows; it screams; they sing in a high pitch; they use falsetto. . pitzahua. it becomes thin; it becomes narrow; it becomes slender; they become slender. . pitzahuac , tla-. long and narrow. . pitzahuac. fine; flaked; high-pitched; long and thin; long and slender; minute; narrow; slender; small; thin and long; thin. . pitzahuacatequini , tla-. one who cuts something into narrow strips. . pitzahuacaxotlani , tla-. one who cuts something into narrow strips. . pitzahuaya , tla-. narrowed place; slender place. . pitzahuaya , to-. our waist. . quechpitzahuac. having a slender neck. . tamalpitzahuac. narrow tamale. . tempitzactic. narrow-muzzled, having a narrow muzzle. . tempitzahua , tla-. they become thin-lipped. . tempitzahuac. having a slender bill; having a slender muzzle; having a thin muzzle; thin-muzzled. . tempitzaton. rather thin-muzzled, having a thin muzzle. . tlalhuapitzactli. thin nerve. . tolpitzahuac. slender reed; thin reed. . tzimpitzahuac. having a slender abdomen; long and thin at the root; narrow at the base; narrow at the bottom; slender at the base; slender-tailed; having a slender tail; slender on the end; slender at the bottom; tapering toward the bottom; thin at the base. . xalpitzactic. like fine sand. . xalpitzahuac. fine sand. . xalpitzahuacayo. having fine sand. . yacapitzahua. they become pointed at the end. . yacapitzahuac. !name=yacapitzahuac; eared grebe; slender at the end; tapering; sharp-tipped. . yacapitzahuaca , to-. thin part of our nose. . pitzi:ni*** (burst) pitzini. it breaks; it bursts open; it bursts; it breaks open. . pitzotl*** (pig) caltepipitzotl. pigsty. . pitzonacatl. flesh of pig, pork. . pitzonequi , qui-. he uses it like a pig, he uses it excessively; they lust for it like pigs. . pitzotl. pig. . pi:tztli*** (fruitpit, something hard) cuappitztic. stiff. . cuauhtepitztli. hard tree; hard wood. . pitzahui , te-. it hardens. . tentepitztic. hard. . tepitzahui , tla-. it hardens. . tepitzahui. he becomes firm, hard; it becomes hard; it hardens. . tepitzauhya , tla-. hardened place. . tepitzpatic. very hard. . tepitztic. hard; firm. . tlaltepitzpan. in hard soil. . tzintepitztli. rump bone. . yollotepitztic. courageous, brave; . . From campbel at indiana.edu Mon May 7 18:25:23 2001 From: campbel at indiana.edu (r. joe campbell) Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 13:25:23 -0500 Subject: Ahuachpitzactzin In-Reply-To: Message-ID: More follow-up: These are the occurrences of 'pitz' from the Florentine Codex and from Molina's three dictionaries. The occurrences of 'pitz' in the FC that are still unglossed are not included. Molina's glosses are given in his original Spanish. Joe acapitzac, i-. his reed stalk (FC). acapitzactla. carrizal (55m, 71m1, 71m2). acapitzactli. carrizo especie de ca?a (55m, 71m1); carrizo, o especie de ca?a (71m2); long reed (FC). ahhuachpitzactli. thin drizzle (FC). amatlapalpitzatoton. small and slender leaves (FC). apampitzactli. surco para sacar el agua (55m, 71m1); sangradera de agua (71m2). apitza, eztli nic- . camaras de sangre tener (71m1). apitza, m[o]- . doliente de camaras (55m, 71m1). apitza, nin- . camaras tener (55m, 71m1). apitza, nin- (oninapitz). tener camaras (71m2). apitza, c-. he purges it, he defecates it (FC). apitza, m[o]-. he has bloody diarrhea (FC); he has diarrhea (FC); they have diarrhea (FC). apitza, nin[o]-. I get diarrhea (FC); I have diarrhea (FC). apitzactli. stream (FC); thin stream of water (FC). apitzactotonti. little streams (FC). apitzal, i-. his diarrhea (FC); their diarrhea (FC). apitzaliztli, ne- . camaras (55m); dolencia assi (55m); camaras (71m1); dolencia assi (71m1); enfermedad de camaras (71m2). apitzalli. camara assi (55m, 71m1); camaras (71m2); diarrhea (FC); diarrhea, fluid intestinal evacuation (FC). apitzaltic. something which causes diarrhea (FC). apitzaltiz, c-. it will give him diarrhea (FC). apitzaltontli. little bit of diarrhea (FC). atl ipitzahuayan, huei- . estrecho de mar (71m2). atl ipitzahuayan, huey- . mar estrecho (55m). atompitztli. pilar de fuente sobre que se pone la ta?a delos ca?os que corren (71m1); pilar horadado de fuente, sobre el qual sepone la taza. &c (71m2). atoyapitzactli. riatillo peque?o rio (55m, 71m1). atoyapitzactontli. rio peque?o (55m, 71m1). cahuallotzatzapitzaliztli. espolada (55m, 71m1). caltepipitzotl. pigsty (FC). campanapitzqui. campanero que las haze (55m, 71m1). castillan pitzahuac etl. lentejas legumbre (55m, 71m1). cecuappitzahui, ni- . calambre tener (71m1). cecuappitzahui, ni- (onicecuappitzauh). tener calambre (71m2). chiampitzahuac. small chia seed (FC). chichipitza, con-. he spatters it (FC). chichipitza, qui-. they spatter it (FC). chochopitztli, tla- . picada cosa de muchas picaduras (55m, 71m1). cohuaxolopitzintli. stupid little snake, stupid little serpent (FC). coztic teocuitlapitzqui. platero que labra oro (55m, 71m1, 71m2). cuacuappitzahui, ni- . enertarse los miembros (55m, 71m1). cuapitzahua. it becomes slender at the top (FC). cuapitzahuac. figura ahusada haziarriba y ancha abaxo (55m); figura ahusada hazia arriba y ancha abaxo (71m1); figura ahusada hazia arriba, y ancho en lo baxo (71m2); narrow at the top (FC); pointed at the head, narrow at the top (FC); slender at the tip (FC); slender at the top (FC); thin at the top (FC). cuapitzahuacan, i-. its tip (FC). cuapitzahuaya, i-. its slender end (FC). cuapitzinia, nic-. I smash his head (FC). cuappitzactli. palo delgado (71m2). cuappitzahuac. slender tree (FC). cuappitzahui. empedernecerse o pararse duro el pan o cosa assi (55m, 71m1). cuappitzahui . endurecerse el pan (71m1). cuappitzahui, ni- . enuararse (55m); enhertarse (71m1); enuararse (71m1). cuappitzahui, ni- (onicuappitzauh). enuararse, o pararse yerto (71m2). cuappitzahui, ni-. I become numb (FC). cuappitzahuiliztli. aspereza assi (55m); enuaramiento (55m, 71m1); enuaramiento assi (71m2). cuappitzauh, o-. it stiffened (FC). cuappitzauhqui. enuarado (55m); enertado assi (71m1); enuarado (71m1); persona enuarada o yerta, cosa aspera, crudia, o acucharrada, assi como tortillas secas. &c. o persona cence?a y enxuta (71m2); harsh (FC). cuappitzhuac, o-. it dried stiff as a board (FC). cuappitzoa, mo- . yerto pararse el muerto quando espira (55m); yerto pararse el muerto,quando espira (71m1). cuappitzoa, mo- (omocuappitzo). pararse yerto el muerto (71m2). cuappitzoa, nino- . pararse yerto (71m1). cuappitzoa, nino- (oninocuappitzo). pararse yerto como palo (71m2). cuappitzoa, mo-. it becomes rigid (FC). cuappitzoa, tic-. we harden it (FC). cuappitztic. aspera cosa como vestidura (55m); cence?o o enxuto (55m); enertado assi (55m); aspera cosa (71m1); aspera yerudia cosa, assi como cuero, tortillas secas, &c (71m1); cence?o enxuto (71m1); empedernido desta manera (71m1); enertado assi (71m1); lo mesmo es que quappitzauhqui cuappitztic totopochhuacqui. empedernido assi (55m). cuappitztiliztli. aspereza assi (71m1); aspereza tal (71m1). cuatepipitzinia, quin-. they crush their skulls with a rock (FC); they crush their heads with stones (FC). cuatepipitziniloya. her was crushed between stones (FC). cuatepipitzinizque, quin-. they will break their heads (FC). cuatepitzinia, nite- . descalabrar con piedra (71m1); machucar la cabe?a a otro (71m1). cuatepitzinia, nite- (onitecuatepitzini). descalabrar o quebrantar la cabeza a otro (71m2). cuatepitzinia, nic-. I bash his head (FC). cuatepitzinia, te-. he wounds someone on the head (FC). cuatepitziniani, te- . machucador tal (71m1). cuatepitziniliztli, te- . descalabradura tal (71m1); machucadura de cabe?a (71m1). cuatepitzinilli, tla- . descalabrado assi (71m1). cuatepitziniqui, te- . machucador tal (71m1). cuauhpitzactli. palo o vara delgada (71m2). cuauhpitzahui, ni- (onicuauhpitzauh). enuararse o pararse yerto (71m2). cuauhpitzahuiliztli. aspereza tal (71m1). cuauhtepitztli. hard tree (FC); hard wood (FC). cuauhtlapitzalli. flute (FC). cuauhtzatzapitzo. cosa que tiene rexas, o cosa enrexada (71m2). cuauhtzatzapitztli. rexa de palo (55m, 71m1); rexa de madera (71m2). cuauhtzatzapitzyo. rexada cosa desta manera (55m, 71m1). cuaxipitzoa, nite- . encaluecer a otro (55m). cuitlapitz. pan?udo (55m, 71m1); hombre panzudo (71m2). cuitlatepitzahui. colico, el que padece esta enfermedad. tambien quiere dezir, restre?ido (71m1). cuitlaxcolpitzactli. tripas delgadas (55m, 71m1, 71m2); empty gutted (FC); thin intestines (FC). ecapitzactli. ayre delgado (55m, 71m1); ayre sotil y delgado (71m2); narrow current of air (FC). ehuahuilacapitzo. gaytero (55m, 71m1, 71m2). ehuahuilacapitzoa, n- (onehuahuilacapitzo). ta?er gaita (71m2). ehuahuilacapitzoani. gaytero (55m, 71m1). ehuahuilacapitztli. gayta (55m, 71m1); gaita (71m2). ehuatlapitza, n- . follar (71m1). ehuatlapitza, n- (onehuatlapitz). ta?er gayta (71m2). ehuatlapitzalhuehuetl. organo instrumento musico (55m); organo,instrumento musico (71m1); organo (71m2). ehuatlapitzali. gayta (55m). ehuatlapitzalli. gayta (71m1, 71m2). ehuatlapitzqui. gaytero (55m); gaitero (71m2). ehuatlepitzaloni. fuelles para soplar (55m, 71m1); fuelles de organo (71m2). ehuatlepitzalonito. fuelles peque?as (55m, 71m1); fuelles peque?as de organo peque?o (71m2). eltepitztli. la paletilla (71m2). ezcocopitzactli. vena rotil de rangre (71m1); vena sotil del cuerpo (71m2). ezococpitzactli. vena sotil de sangre (55m). eztli nicapitza, - (eztli onicapitz). tener camaras de sangre (71m2). hicoxhuatzalli tlatepitztentli. higos enserados (55m, 71m1). hueyatl ipitzahuayan. mar estrecho (71m1). huilacapitzalhuia, quin-. they play flutes for them (FC). huilacapitzchiuhqui. flautero que las haze (55m, 71m1). huilacapitzo. flautero el que las ta?e (55m); ta?edor tal (55m); flautero el que las ta?e (71m1); ta?edor tal (71m1); el que ta?e flauta, o pifaro (71m2). huilacapitzoa, ni- . ta?er pisaro o cosa assi (55m); ta?er pifaro o cosa assi (71m1). huilacapitzoa, ni- (onihuilacapitzo). ta?er flauta (71m2). huilacapitzoani. flautero el que las ta?e (55m); ta?edor tal (55m); flautero el que las ta?e (71m1); ta?edor tal (71m1); flautero que la ta?e (71m2). huilacapitzoaya. they played flutes (FC). huilacapitzohua, ni- . flauta, ta?er (71m1). huilacapitzoqui. gaytero (71m1). huilacapitzxochitl. iazmin delos vergeles (55m); iazmin de los vergeles (71m1). ieltepitz. pechuga de aue (71m1). ihpitzaliztli, te-. act of blowing evil on someone (FC). ihuilacapitz. his flute (FC). ilpitza, nite- . soplar hazia otro (55m, 71m1). ilpitza, nite- (oniteilpitz). soplar a otro (71m2). [i]lpitza, nitla- . soplar (55m, 71m1). ilpitza, nitla pani- . soplar a fuera (71m1). ilpitza, nitla- (onitlalpitz). soplar (71m2). [i]lpitza, pani nitla- . soplar a fuera (55m, 71m1). ilpitza, con-. he blows it away (FC). [i]lpitza, tla-. it blows (FC). [i]lpitzaliztli, tla- . espiritu o soplo (55m); sopladura (55m); soplo (55m); espiritu o soplo (71m1); sopladura (71m1); soplo (71m1, 71m2). [i]lpitztli, tla- . soplado (55m, 71m1). ipitz, tiquim-. you inspired them (FC). ipitza, tiquim-. you inspire them (FC). ipitzahuayan in ilhuica atl. estrecho de mar entre dos tierras (71m2). ipitzahuayan in ilhuicaatl. estrecha mar entre dos tierras (55m, 71m1). ipitzahuayan in tlalli. estrecha tierra (55m, 71m1). ipitzahuayan intlalli. estrechura de tierra entre dos mares (71m2). ipitzazque, quim-. they will blow on them (FC). itzimpitzahuayan. hondon (55m, 71m1). [i]xcalcuappitztli, tla-. dried tortilla (FC). ixcapitztic. tuerto de vn ojo (55m, 71m1). ixcopitzalhuia, nite- . acepillar algo a otro (71m1). ixcopitzalhuia, nite- (oniteixcopitzalhui). acepillar algo a otro (71m2). ixcopitzoa, n- (onixcopitzo). gui?ar el ojo o vizcar (71m2). ixpipitzahuac. slender (FC). ixpitzahuac. carimenudo (71m1, 71m2); fine, tiny (FC); small (FC). ixpitzictic. tuerto del ojo (71m2). ixpitzictiliztli. entortamiento de ojo (71m2). ixpitzinia, nite- . quebrar el ojo a otro (71m1). ixpitzinia, nite- (oniteixpitzini). quebrar el ojo a otro (71m2). ixpitzinia, niqu-. I smash it in the eye (FC). ixtelolo pitzinia, nite- (oniteixtelolopitzini). quebrar el ojo a otro (71m2). ixtelolopitzini, n- . entortarse (55m). ixtelolopitzini, n- (onixtelolopitzin). quebrarseme el ojo (71m2). ixtelolopitzinia, nite- . entortar a otro quebrarle el ojo (55m); entortar a otro, quebrandole el ojo (71m1). ixtelolopitzinia, niqu-. I smash it in the eyeball (FC). ixtelolopitzinilli, tla- . entortado (55m, 71m1); entordado de vn ojo (71m2). iztac teocuitla pitzqui. platero (71m2). iztac teocuitlapitzqui. platero (71m1). iztacteocuitlapitzqui. platero (55m). mapipitzahuac. having slender branches (FC); having slender leaves (FC). mapipitzoa. he whistles (FC); it whistles (FC); there is whistling (FC); they whistle (FC). mapipitzoa, nino- . chuparse los dedos (71m1). mapipitzoa, nino- (oninomapipitzo). chuparse los dedos (71m2). mapipitzoa, ni- (onimapipitzo). siluo hecho con las manos (71m2). mapipitzoa, nite- . chupar a otro los dedos (71m1). mapipitzoani. one who whistles with his fingers (FC); shrill whistler (FC); whistler (FC). mapipitzoani, mo- . chupador tal (71m1). mapipitzoani, te- . chupador tal (71m1). mapipitzoliztli. act of whistling through the fingers (FC). mapipitzoliztli, ne- . chupadura desta manera (71m1). mapipitzoliztli, te- . chupamiento assi (71m1). mapitzahuac. having slender leaves (FC). matlapitza, ni- (onimatlapitz). siluar con las manos y boca (71m2). matlapitzaliztli. siluo hecho con las manos (55m, 71m1); siluo tal (71m2). matzotzopazpitzahuaya, to-. slender part of our forearm (FC). mecapitzahuac. like a slender cord (FC). metzpitzahuaya, to-. slender part of our thigh (FC). michtepitzitzin. small fish, small fishes (FC). miequintin pitzome. piara de puercos (71m2). molicpitzin, i-. his [H.] elbow (FC); his elbow [H.] (FC). moyollo tepitziliani. paciente (71m1). nelhuayopitzahuac. having slender roots (FC). neuctlatepitzhuatzalli. turron (71m2). neyollotepitziliztica. pacientemente (71m1). nixtelolopitzini. entortarse (71m1). nomapipitzoqui. chupador tal (71m1). ohpitzacquetza, n-. I follow the trail (FC). ohpitzactli. trail (FC); trail, narrow road (FC); trail, path (FC). olchichipitza, con-. they sprinkle it with liquid rubber (FC). olopitzahua, nic-. I cause it to have a slender cob (FC). olopitzahuac. having a slender cob (FC). olpitzahuac. thin piece of rubber (FC). opitzacochpana, n-. I sweep the trail (FC). opitzactli. senda o sendero (55m); vereda o senda (55m); senda o sendero (71m1); vereta o renta (71m1); senda, vereda, o camino muy estrecho (71m2); narrow road (FC); path (FC); trail (FC). otlapitzactli. long stout cane (FC). paltepitzactli, tla-. red and slender (FC). pani ilpitza, nitla- (onitlapani ilpitz). soplar por encima, o por defuera (71m2). paniilpitza, nitla- . soplar a fuera (55m). petlapitzahuac. narrow mat (FC). pipipitzca. they squeak continually (FC). pipitza, nitla- (onitlapipitz). follar, o soplarmuchas vezes (71m2). pipitzahuac. slender (FC); thin (FC). pipitzaliztli, ne- . encendimiento tal (55m); encendimiento desta manera (71m1). pipitzato. very thin (FC). pipitzca. bramar el cieruo (55m, 71m1); it barks (FC); it chatters (FC); it chirps (FC); it shrieks (FC); it squeals (FC); it whistles shrilly (FC); they neigh (FC); they squeak (FC); they wail (FC). pipitzca, ni- . chillar (55m); rechinar (55m); relinchar el cauallo (55m); chillar (71m1); rechinar (71m1); relinchar el cauallo (71m1). pipitzca, ni- (onipipitzcac). bramar el cieruo, relinchar el cauallo, o chillar el raton (71m2). pipitzca, tehuan ni- . relinchar al relinchido (55m, 71m1). pipitzca, tla-. there is neighing (FC). pipitzcaliztli. brama de cieruos (55m); chillido (55m); relincho (55m); brama de cieruos (71m1); chillido (71m1); relincho (71m1); ruydo de viento (71m1); bramido, relincho, o chillido desta manera (71m2). pipitzcaliztli, tehuan- . relinchido assi (55m, 71m1). pipitzcani. bramador assi (71m1); barker (FC); screamer (FC). pipitzcatica. it is shrieking (FC). pipitzcaticate. they are squeaking continually (FC). pipitzoa, nitla- . chupar sin mascar (55m); chupar alguna cosa sin maxcarla (71m1). pipitzoa, nitla- (onitlapipitzo). chupar, o roer algo (71m2). pipitzoani, tla- . chupador tal (71m1). pipitzoliztli, tla- . chupadura desta manera (71m1). pipitzolli, tla- . chupados dedos (71m1); chupada cosa ass (71m1). pipitzqui, mo- . encendido assi (55m, 71m1); encendido de yra (71m2). pipitzquilia, quin-. it squeals for them (FC). pipitzquiltia, nite- (onitepipitzquilti). hazer chillar a otro (71m2). pipitzquiltia, nitla- . hazer pinol de chia, o bru?ir alguna cosa (71m1). pipitztlatoa. they speak like gulls (FC). pitz, omitz-. she cast you (FC). pitz, ontla-. he sounded his flute, he blew something (FC). pitza, nino- . encenderse yra (55m); encenderse de yra (71m1). pitza, nino- (oninopitz). pararse bermejo o encenderse de enojo (71m2). pitza, nitla- . encender huego (55m); hundir metal (55m); ta?er flautas o cosa semejante o trompeta (55m); flauta, ta?er (71m1); follar (71m1); hundir metal (71m1); soplar o ta?er flauta o cheremia (71m1); ta?er flautas o cosa semejante,o trompeta (71m1). pitza, nitlal- (onitlalpitz). soplar (71m2). pitza, nitla- (onitlapitz). ta?er otocar trompeta, cheremia, flauta, o otro instrumento semejante, o soplar el fuego (71m2). pitza, nitlatlal- (onitlatlalpitz). soplar muchas vezes (71m2). pitza, tepoztli nic- . fundir metales (55m). pitza, tepoztli nic - . fundir metales (71m1). pitza, mo-. it becomes inflamed (FC); it blows (FC); it flared (FC); it flares up (FC); it is blown (FC); it is cast (FC); it is inflamed (FC); it is melted (FC); they are cast (FC). pitza, nic-. I blow it (FC); I cast it, I blow it (FC). pitza, qui-. he blows it (FC); it blows on him (FC); she blows it; she casts him (FC); they blow it (FC); they blow it off (FC); they cast it (FC). pitza, tla-. he blows a pipe (FC); he casts [i.e., metal] (FC); it blows a trumpet (FC); they blow (FC); they blow (e.g., trumpets) (FC); they blow [e.g., trumpet shell] (FC); they blow trumpets (FC). pitzactic. delgado assi (55m); delgada cosa assi (71m1); cosa delgada y larga, assi comovara, soga o cosas semejantes (71m2); slender (FC). pitzactli. delgada cosa assi (71m1); cosa delgada y larga, assi comovara, soga o cosas semejantes (71m2). pitzactontli. little and thin (FC); rather thin (FC); small and narrow (FC); small and slender (FC). pitzahua. it becomes narrow (FC); it becomes slender (FC); it becomes thin (FC); they become slender (FC). pitzahua, ni- . emmagrecerse (55m, 71m1). pitzahua, ni- (onipitzahuac). pararse delgado y flaco (71m2). pitzahua, nite- . emmagrecer a otro (55m, 71m1). pitzahua, nitla- . adelgazar hilo o cosas largas rollizas (55m); cantar tiple (55m); adelgazar hilo o cosas largas y rollizas o cantar con boz delgada y mugeril (71m1); cantar tiple (71m1). pitzahua, nitla- (onitlapitzauh). adelgazar palos o sogas, o hablar alto la muger, o cantar. &c (71m2); cantar tiple, o como muger, o adelgazar o desbastar maderos o varas (71m2). pitzahua, nitlatla- (onitlatlapitzauh). dar bozes o cantar la muger muchas vezes (71m2). pitzahua, nic-. I make it narrow (FC); I make it thin (FC); I narrow it (FC). pitzahua, tla-. he sings in falsetto (FC); it becomes narrow, it becomes thin (FC); it becomes slender (FC); it becomes thin (FC); it howls in a high-pitched voice (FC); it narrows (FC); it screams (FC); they sing in a high pitch (FC); they use falsetto (FC). pitzahuac. angosta cosa tabla, papel, eredad, pared, adobe, camino o cosa assi (55m); delgado assi (55m); enxuto hombre (55m); angusta cosa, assi como tabla, heredad,pared, adobe,camino o cosa semejante (71m1); delgada cosa assi (71m1); enxuto hombre (71m1); cosa delgada, assi como varas, pilares, colunas, sogas y cosas largas y rollizas, o el camino, el viento delgado y sotil, los frisoles peque?os, lantejas, o cosas semejantes (71m2); fine (FC); flaked (FC); high-pitched (FC); long and slender (FC); long and thin (FC); minute (FC); narrow (FC); slender (FC); small (FC); thin (FC); thin and long (FC); thin, high-pitched (FC). pitzahuac, tla-. long and narrow (FC). pitzahuacatequini, tla-. one who cuts something into narrow strips (FC). pitzahuacaxotlani, tla-. one who cuts something into narrow strips (FC). pitzahuacayotl. delgadez de cosas largas (55m); delgadez de cosas largas y rollizas (71m1); delgadez tal (71m2). pitzahualiztli. emmagrecimiento (55m, 71m1). pitzahualiztli, tla- . adelgazamiento tal (55m); canto de tiple (55m); adelgazamiento tal (71m1); canto de tiple (71m1, 71m1); canto, o adelgazamiento assi (71m2). pitzahualli, tla- . adelgazada cosa assi (55m, 71m1); cosa adelgazada desta manera (71m2). pitzahuaticac, hual-. it becomes narrow as it extends (FC). pitzahuatiuh, hual-. it comes out slender (FC). pitzahuaya, tla-. narrowed place (FC); slender place (FC). pitzahuaya, to-. our waist (FC). pitzahui, te-. it hardens (FC). pitzal, itla-. his flute (FC); his trumpet (FC). pitzal, motlatla-. your flute (FC). pitzal, nimotlatla-. I am your flute (FC). pitzal, titlatla-. you are a flute (FC). pitzalhuan, motlatla-. your flutes (FC). pitzaliztli, tla- . hundicion assi (55m); hundicion assij (71m1); el acto de ta?er flauta, o otro instrumento semejante, o el acto de fundir y derretir metales (71m2). pitzalli, tla- . flauta (55m); ynstrumento musico (55m); flauta (71m1); ynstrumento musico (71m1); flauta, cheremia, orlo (71m2). pitzalli, tla-. act of blowing (FC); flute (FC); something cast [e.g., metal] (FC); something which is blown [e.g., trumpet] (FC); something which is cast [i.e., metal] (FC). pitzalnamacac, tla-. seller of cast metal objects (FC). pitzalo. they are forged (FC). pitzalo, tla-. flutes are blown (FC); musical instruments are blown (FC); shell trumpets are blown (FC); there is blowing of shell trumpets (FC); trumpets are blown (FC); trumpets are blown, there is blowing (FC). pitzaloc, o-. it was cast (FC). pitzaloc, ontla-. there was blowing of shell trumpets (FC). pitzaloc, oti-. you were cast (FC). pitzaloc, otla-. there was sounding of trumpets (FC); trumpets were blown (FC). pitzaloc, ti-. you were cast (FC); you were cast [i.e., like metal] (FC). pitzaloni. hundible cosa que se puede hundir (55m, 71m1); blower (FC); something that can be blown (FC); something that can be cast (FC); something which can be cast (FC). pitzaloni, tla- . crisol para fundir (55m); crisol para fundir oro (71m1, 71m2). pitzalotiuh, tla-. there is going blowing musical instruments (FC). pitzaloya, tla-. there was blowing of trumpets (FC); trumpets were blown (FC). pitzaloyan, tla- . hundicion el lugar donde hunden (55m, 71m1); lugar donde ta?en flautas &c. o lugar donde funden y derriten metales (71m2). pitzaloz, tla-. there will be sounding of trumpets (FC). pitzalpan, tla-. time of blowing of trumpets (FC). pitzaltenzouhcayotl, tla- . trompa de trompeta (55m); trompa de flauta, de cheremia o de trompeta (71m2). pitzani, mo- . encendido assi (55m, 71m1). pitzauhqui. emmagrecido (55m, 71m1); delgado, flaco y magro (71m2); thin (FC). pitzauhtli, tla- . adelgazada cosa assi (55m, 71m1); cosa adelgazada desta manera (71m2). pitzaya, hualla-. he blew a flute (FC). pitzaya, qui-. he blew it [i.e., trumpet] (FC); they cast it (FC). pitzaya, tla-. they blew (i.e., a shell trumpet) (FC); they sounded a trumpet (FC). pitzaz, qui-. he will blow it (FC). pitzaz, tla-. he will blow a flute (FC). pitzcan, tla- . hundicion el lugar donde hunden (55m); lugar donde funden metales, o la casa dela fundicion (71m2). pitzcoyoctic. estrecha cosa como agujero (55m); estrecha cosa, assi como agujero (71m1); estrecha cosa, assi como agujero o cosa semejante (71m2). pitzcoyocton. estrecha cosa, assi como agujero o cosa semejante (71m2). pitzcoyoctontli. estrecha cosa, assi como agujero o cosa semejante (71m2). pitzcoyoniliztli. estrechura tal (55m, 71m1, 71m2). pitzcoyonqui. estrecha cosa como agujero (55m); estrecha cosa, assi como agujero (71m1); estrecha cosa desta manera (71m2). pitzini. abrirse la llaga o nacido (55m, 71m1); it breaks (FC); it bursts open (FC); it bursts, it breaks open (FC). pitzini, - (opitzin). quebrarse el hueuo, machucarse la fruta, o quebrarse el ojo, y abrirse o rebentar el encordio o cosa semejante (71m2). pitzinia, nitla- . machucar fruta hueuos o cosa assi (55m); estrujar fruta (71m1); machucar fruta. hueuos o cosa assi (71m1). pitzinia, nitla- (onitlapitzini). quebrar assi los hueuos (71m2). pitzinia, mo-. it is crushed (FC). pitzinia, qui-. it breaks it open (FC); it dissolves it, it breaks it (FC). pitzinia, quin-. they break them open (FC). pitziniliztli, tla- . machucadura tal (55m, 71m1); el acto de machucar alguna fruta, o de quebrar algun hueuo, o cosa semejante (71m2). pitzinilli, tla- . machucada cosa assi (55m, 71m1). pitziniz, nitla-. I shall burst something (FC). pitziquihui, ni- . comer mucho (71m1). pitziquihui, ni- (onipitziquiuh). comer mucho (71m2). pitziquihuini. comedor tal (71m1). pitzitzihuan, mo-. your sisters (FC). pitzitzinhuan, i-. his beloved older sisters (FC). pitzitzinhuan, mo-. your older sisters (FC). pitzmamali, mo- . el que se mete entre otros con violencia hendiendo por ellos, o el que entra por algun agujero o lugar estrecho (71m2). pitzmamali, nino- . meterse o colarse entre otros o por algun lugar estrecho (55m); mestrecho (71m1). pitzmamalqui, mo- . metido assi (55m, 71m1). pitzo metzhuatzalli. pernil de tocino (71m2). pitzoa, mo-. it sucks (FC). pitzocalli. ?ahurda de puercos (55m, 71m1, 71m2). pitzoconetl. lechon (55m, 71m1). pitzome, miequintim- . piara de ganado menudo (55m). pitzome, miequintin - . piara de ganado menudo (71m1). pitzometzhuatzalli. pernil de tocino (55m, 71m1). pitzonacatl. flesh of pig, pork (FC). pitzonequi, qui-. he uses it like a pig, he uses it excessively (FC); they lust for it like pigs (FC). pitzopixqui. porquero (55m, 71m1); porquero, o porquerizo (71m2). pitzotl. puerco o puerca (71m1); puerco (71m2); pig (FC). pitzque, oqui-. they blew it (FC); they molded it (FC). pitzque, tla-. trumpet sounders (FC). pitzqui, tla- . flautero el que las ta?e (55m); ta?edor assi (55m); flautero el que las ta?e (71m1); ta?edor assi (71m1); ta?edor de flauta, de cheremia, o trompeta &c. o fundidor de metales (71m2). pitzquiquiztic. like a passage-way for blowing (FC). pitztiaque, qui-. they went blowing it (FC). pitztiaz, tla-. he will go playing a flute (FC). pitztic. thin (FC). pitztihui, qui-. they go blowing it (FC). pitztihui, tla-. they go blowing wind instruments (FC). pitztihuitze, tla-. they come blowing trumpets (FC); they come naked (FC). pitztinemi, tla-. he goes about playing the flute (FC). pitztiquiza, qui-. he quickly blows it (FC). pitztiquiza, tla-. he quickly whistles (FC). pitztiuh, hualla-. he goes blowing [i.e., a trumpet] (FC). pitztiuh, tla-. he goes blowing [e.g., a trumpet] (FC). pitztli. cuexco de fruta (71m1); cuexco o huesso de cierta fruta (71m2). pitztoque, qui-. they kept blowing the shell trumpet (FC). quappitztic. aspera cosa crudia como cuero o tortillas secas (55m). quechpitzahuac. having a slender neck (FC). quechtacapitzpil. having a small reed-like neck (FC). quechtacapitztic. having a constricted neck (FC). tacapitzahui. it becomes thin (FC). tacapitzauhia, to-. our waist (FC). tacapitzauhqui. constricted (FC). tacapitztic. constricted (FC); thin (FC). tacipitzahui. it becomes constricted (FC). tamalpitzahuac. narrow tamale (FC). telpochtepitzin. small youth (FC). teltepitz. paletilla del estomago o pecho (71m1); paletilla de la boca del estomago (71m2). tempipitzo, mo- . chupdor tal (71m1). tempipitzoa, nino- . chuparse los labrios o relamerse (71m1). tempipitzoa, nino- (oninotempipitzo). relamerse (71m2). tempipitzoliztli, ne- . chupamiento assi (71m1). tempitzactic. narrow-muzzled, having a narrow muzzle (FC). tempitzahua, tla-. they become thin-lipped (FC). tempitzahuac. having a slender bill (FC); having a slender muzzle (FC); having a thin muzzle (FC); thin-muzzled, having a thin muzzle (FC). tempitzaton. having a rather thin snout (FC); having a slender muzzle (FC); having a small, slender muzzle (FC); rather thin-muzzled, having a thin muzzle (FC). tempitzquiquizoa, qui-. it plasters it with its bill (FC). tentepitztic. hard (FC). teocuitlacozcapitzqui. platero que haze joyas (55m, 71m1); platero que haze joyas. &c (71m2). teocuitlapitza, ni-. I cast gold (FC). teocuitlapitzaya. they cast (past) gold (FC). teocuitlapitzcacalli. tienda de platero (55m); tienda de platero, o plateria (71m2). teocuitlapitzcan. plateria (71m2). teocuitlapitzcayotl. casting of gold (FC); craft of casting gold (FC). teocuitlapitzque. gold-workers (FC); goldcasters (FC); goldcasters, goldsmiths (FC); goldsmiths (FC). teocuitlapitzqui. platero (71m2); gold-worker (FC); goldcaster (FC); goldsmith (FC). tepampitzactli. tabique pared (55m, 71m1); pared delgada y estrecha, o tabique (71m2). tepampitzahuac. tabique pared (55m, 71m1); pared delgada y estrecha, o tabique (71m2); thin-walled (FC). tepiton ehuatlepitzaloni. fuelles peque?as (55m, 71m1). tepitzahui. empedernecerse o pararse duro el pan o cosa assi (55m); endurecerse (55m); empedernecerse o pararse duro el pan o cosa assi (71m1); endurecerse (71m1); he becomes firm, hard (FC); it becomes hard (FC); it hardens (FC). tepitzahui . endurecerse el pan (71m1). tepitzahui, - (otepitzauh). endurecerse alguna cosa (71m2). tepitzahui, tla-. it hardens (FC). tepitzalhuia, nic- (onictepitzalhui). endurecer algo a otro (71m2). tepitzalhuia, nicte- . endurecer algo a otro (71m1). tepitzauhticac, tla-. it stands hardening (FC). tepitzauhya, tla-. hardened place (FC). tepitze. O beloved little one (FC); O little one (FC). tepitzhuia, tla-. she becomes firm (FC). tepitzhuiani, tla-. one who is firm (FC). tepitzi. chica cosa (71m1). tepitzilacatzoa, qui-. he wraps it tightly (FC). tepitzililli, tla- . endurecido assi (71m1). tepitzin. a little bit (FC); little one (FC). tepitzin, zan- . poco, nombre adjectiuo (55m, 71m1). tepitzin, ti-. you are little (FC). tepitzin, to-. our little one (FC). tepitzinilli, tla-. something beaten (FC). tepitzintle. o little one (FC). tepitzitzin. a tiny bit (FC). tepitzitzoma, tla-. he sews firmly (FC). tepitzitzquia, nitla- . apretar algo reziamente con el pu?o o con la mano (71m1). tepitzitzquia, nitla- (onitlatepitzitzqui). tener y apretar reziamente alguna cosa conla mano (71m2). tepitzmalina, nitla- . retorcer (55m, 71m1). tepitzmalina, nitla- (onitlatepitzmalin). torcer reziamente alguna soga, cordel, o hilo (71m2). tepitzmalinaliztli, tla- . retorcedura (55m); el acto de torcer reziamente algun cordel, o cosa semejante (71m2). tepitzmana, nitla- . solar echar suelo ala casa (55m); solar, echar suelo ala casa (71m1). tepitzmantli, tla- . suelo sacado a pison (55m, 71m1); suelo hecho a pison (71m2). tepitzmmalinaliztli, tla- . retorcedura (71m1). tepitznahuatiayaya, quin-. they commanded them sternly (FC). tepitznahuatil, mo-. your stern commandment (FC). tepitznahuatiloya, te-. there was strong commanding of people (FC). tepitzoa, nitla- . endurecer algo (55m, 71m1). tepitzoa, nitla- (onitlatepitzo). endurecer alguna cosa (71m2). tepitzoliztli, tla- . hinchimiento assi (55m, 71m1); el acto de recalcar y apretar fuertemente alguna cosa (71m2). tepitzolli, tla- . endurecido assi (55m, 71m1); cosa recalcada assi (71m2). tepitzpatic. very hard (FC). tepitztia. endurecerse (55m, 71m1). tepitztia, - (otepitztiac). endurecerse, o empedernecerse algo (71m2). tepitztic. dura cosa generalmente (55m); empedernido assi (55m); dura cosa generalmente (71m1); empedernido desta manera (71m1); cosa dura (71m2); hard (FC); hard, firm (FC). tepitztilia, nitla- . endurecer algo (55m, 71m1). tepitztilia, nitla- (onitlatepitzilli). endurecer algo (71m2). tepitztililiztli, tla- . endurecimiento tal (55m, 71m1); (71m2). tepitztililli, tla- . endurecido assi (55m); cosa recalcada assi (71m2). tepitztiliztli. dureza assi (55m); fuer?a biua (55m); dureza tal (71m1); fuer?a o dureza (71m1); dureza, o endurecimiento grande (71m2). tepitztlacuactic. dura cosa generalmente (55m, 71m1). tepitztlacuactilia, nitla- . endurecer algo (71m1). tepitztlacuactilia, nitla- (onitlatepitztlacuactili). endurecer mucho alguna cosa (71m2). tepitztlacuactiliztli. dureza assi (55m); dureza tal (71m1). tepitztlacuahuac. cosa muy dura (71m2). tepitztlacuahualiztli. dureza grande, o endurecimiento (71m2). tepitztlalia in tlacualli, mo- . opilarse (71m1). tepitztlalia, nitla- . embutir o recalcar (55m); hinchir recal?ado (55m); embutir o recalar (71m1); hinchir recalacando (71m1). tepitztlalia, nitla- (onitlatepitztlali). recalcar, o apretar mucho alguna cosa (71m2). tepitztlalia, mo-. he sits down firmly, fast (FC). tepitztlaliaya, qui-. they pressed it together hard (FC). tepitztlalilli, tla- . embutido (55m, 71m1); (71m2). tepitztlalilli, tla-. something packed (FC). tepitztzitzquia, nitla- . apretar mucho alguna cosa (55m). tepitzyollo, mo-. the hardness of your heart (FC). tepitzzo, tla-. he makes a firm stitch (FC); he stitches something firmly (FC). tepitzzotl, tla-. tightly stitched (FC). tepozmaccuahuitl yacapitzahuac. estoque (55m, 71m1). tepozpitza. he casts copper (FC). tepozpitza, ni- . derretir metal (71m1). tepozpitza, ni- (onitepozpitz). derretir, o fundir metal (71m2). tepozpitza, ni-. I cast copper (FC). tepozpitzcayotl. casting of copper (FC). tepozpitzque. metal casters (FC). tepozpitzqui. herrero (55m, 71m1); herrero, o fundidor de cobre (71m2); copper caster (FC); coppercaster (FC); coppersmith (FC). tepozquiquizpitzani. trompeta que las ta?e (55m); trompetero o trompeta que las ta?e (71m1); trompetero (71m2). tepoztetzatzapitzaloni. aguijon de hierro o espuela (55m, 71m1); espuela, o aguijon (71m2). tetepitztlacuactiliztli. el acto e endurecer mucho alguna cosa (71m2). tlacopitzachuia, nite- . herir con vara (55m, 71m1). tlacopitzachuia, nite- (onitetlacopitzachui). herir, o azotar a otro con mimbres, o vardascas (71m2). tlacopitzachuiliztli, te- . herida tal (71m1). tlacopitzactli. vara para hostigar (55m, 71m1); mimbre, o vardasca para azotar (71m2). tlacopitzacuiliztli, te- . herida tal (55m). tlacopitzaton. little twig (FC). tlalhuapitzactli. thin nerve (FC). tlalhuapitzahuac. thin nerve (FC). tlalpitza, nitla- . soplar (71m1). tlalpitza, nitla- (onitlatlalpitz). soplar algo muchas vezes, o endiuersas partes (71m2). tlalpitzaliztli, tla- . sopladura (71m1); soplo (71m1); el acto de soplar assi (71m2). tlalpitzalli, tla- . cosa soplada desta manera (71m2). tlalpitzani, tla- . el que sopla assi (71m2). tlalpitzqui, tla- . el que sopla assi (71m2). tlalpitztli, tla- . soplado (71m1); cosa soplada desta manera (71m2). tlaltepitzpan. in hard soil (FC). tlamacazcatepitzitzin. little offering priests (FC); young offering priests (FC). tlanitzpitzahua. shank becomes slender (FC). tlanitzpitzahuaca, to-. slender part of our shank (FC). tlapitza, nitla- (onitlatlapitz). soplar muchas vezes (71m2). tlapitzahua, ni- . cantar delgado o tiple como muger (71m1). tlapitzahua, nitla- (onitlatlapitzauh). reir alto, con gran gasajado y demasiadamente, o cantar con boz delgada ymugeril (71m2). tlapitzahualiztli, tla- . carcajada de risa (55m); risa demasiada (55m, 71m1). tlapitzahuani, tla- . risue?o (55m, 71m1); el que se rie desta manera (71m2). tlapitzalchiuhqui. flautero que las haze (55m, 71m1). tlapitzalizpa, tla-. time for blowing trumpets (FC); time for blowing flutes (FC). tlapitzalizpan, tla-. time for blowing the trumpets (FC); time for blowing of shell trumpets (FC); time for blowing shell trumpets (FC); time of blowing the flutes (FC). tlapitzalizpan, tlah-. time of blowing trumpets (FC). tlapitzaliztli, tla- . el acto de soplar amenudo (71m2). tlapitzaliztli, tla-. act of blowing trumpets (FC). tlapitzalo, tla-. there is blowing of trumpets (FC); there is blowing of conch shells (FC); there is blowing of trumpets (FC). tlapitzaltenzouhcayotl. trompa de trompeta (71m1). tlapitzcan. hundicion el lugar donde hunden (71m1). tlapitzqui, tla- . el que sopla muchas vezes (71m2). [t]lapitztihui, hual-. they go blowing shell trumpets (FC). tlapitztihuitze, tla-. they come blowing [i.e., trumpets] (FC). tlapitztoque, tla-. they each sit blowing shell trumpets (FC). tlatlalpitza, ni- . soplar en diuersas partes (55m, 71m1). tlatlapitza, ni- . soplar (55m). tlatlapitzahua, ni- . reyr demasiado (55m); cantar delgado o tiple como muger (71m1); carcajadas de risa dar (71m1); reyr demasiado (71m1). tlatlapitzahualiztli. carcajadas de risa (71m1). tlatlapitzaliztli. sopladura (55m); soplo (55m). tlatlapitztli. soplado (55m). tlatzatzapitzaliztli. espolada (55m). tlaxcalcuappitztli. dry tortilla (FC). tlaxochpitzactli. trena o tren?a (55m); trenza (71m2). tlepitza. he blows the fire (FC); it blows the fire (FC). tlepitza, ni- . encender huego (71m1). tlepitza, ni- (onitlepitz). soplar el fuego paraque arda (71m2). tlepitzhuatz, te- . dolor de algun golpe enla carne, que escueze mucho, y haze afligir y encoger al que le recibio (71m2). tletlepitzhuatza, nite- (onitetletlepitzhuatz). hazer a otro ronchas o se?ales de cardenales, con los azotes o palos que le di (71m2). tolpitzahuac. slender reed (FC); thin reed (FC). tomapitzahuac. thin tomato (FC). tomapitzictli. bruised tomato (FC). tompitzoa, mo-. it gushes (FC); it springs up (FC); water is tossed up (FC). tompitzoani, mo-. it gushes (FC). tompitzquehua, nino- . al?arse en alto el agua o culebra o cosa assi (55m); al?arse en alto el agua o la culebra (71m1). tompitzquehua, nino- (oninotompitzqueuh). alzarse enalto el agua dela fuente a borbollones, o la culebra, que alza el cuello abalanzandose, o yendo corriendo (71m2). tompitzquetza, nino- . al?arse en alto el agua o culebra o cosa assi (55m); al?arse en alto el agua o la culebra (71m1). tompitzquetza, nino- (oninotompitzquetz). alzarse enalto el agua dela fuente a borbollones o la culebra, que alza el cuello abalanzandose, o yendo corriendo (71m2). tonalpitzahuatoc. he lies thinned by the heat (FC). topitzahuaya. cintura (55m). topitzahuayan. cintura (71m1). topitzin. lagartija (55m, 71m1). tototlapitza, ni- (onitototlapitz). hazer reclamo para tomar paxaros (71m2). tototlapitzaliztli. reclamo para aues (55m, 71m1); reclamo, para cazar paxaros (71m2). tototlapitzqui. paxaro ca?ador de aues (55m); paxaro, ca?ador de aues (71m1); cazador de paxaros con reclamo (71m2). tzatzapitza, nitla- . espolear herir conella (55m, 71m1). tzatzapitza, nitla- (onitlatzatzapitz). punzar, picar o dar de espoladas al cauallo (71m2). tzatzapitzaliztli, tla- . espolada (71m1); espoladas, punzadas o aguijones (71m2). tzimpitzahuac. figura ahusada hazia baxo y ancha arriba (55m, 71m1); cosa figurada, ahusada haziabaxo (71m2); having a slender abdomen (FC); long and thin at the root (FC); narrow at the base (FC); narrow at the bottom (FC); slender at the base (FC); slender at the bottom (FC); slender on the end (FC); slender-tailed, having a slender tail (FC); tapering toward the bottom (FC); thin at the base (FC). tzimpitzatoton. having a small slender base (FC). tzintepitz, to-. our ischial tuberosity (FC). tzintepitztli. ischial tuberosity (FC); rump bone (FC). tzotzopitza, te-. they stab people (FC). tzotzopitza, tla-. he provides holes (i.e., for plants) (FC). tzotzopitzalo, te-. there is repeated spearing of people (FC). xalpitza, ni-. I blow sand (FC). xalpitzactic. like fine sand (FC). xalpitzahuac. fine sand (FC). xalpitzahuacayo. having fine sand (FC). xochpitzacti, tla- . trena o tren?a (71m1). xocpalpitzahuaca, to-. our arch (FC). xopipitzac. thin-legged (FC). xopitzac. thin-legged (FC). xopitzactic. having slender legs (FC). xopitzactli. ?anca (55m, 71m1, 71m2). xopitzahua. the leg becomes slender (FC). xopitzahuaca, to-. slender part of our leg (FC). yacapitzactic. ahusada cosa (71m1). yacapitzahua. they become pointed at the end (FC). yacapitzahua, nitla- . ahusar algo (71m1). yacapitzahua, nitla- (onitlayacapitzauh). ahusar punta de algo (71m2). yacapitzahua, qui-. he takes the lead (FC). yacapitzahuac. ahusada cosa (71m1); cosa ahusada (71m2); eared grebe (FC); slender at the end (FC); tapering, sharp-tipped (FC). yacapitzahuaca, to-. thin part of our nose (FC). yacapitzahualiztli, tla- . ahusadura (71m1). yacapitzahuani, tla- . ahusador (71m1). yeltepitz. pecuga de aue (55m); pechuga de aue (71m2). yollo tepitztic. grande de cora?on (55m, 71m1); magnanimo (71m1). yollo tepitztiliani, mo- . sufrido y paciente (71m2). yollopitzahuac. having a slender center (FC). yollotepitzhuiliztli, tla- . paciencia (55m, 71m1); paciencia, o sufrimiento varonil y esforzado (71m2). yollotepitzilia, nino- . paciencia tener (71m1). yollotepitztic. endurecido assi o pertinaz (55m); magnanimo (55m); endurecido assi, o pertinaz (71m1); esforzado y animoso (71m2); courageous, brave (FC). yollotepitztic . pertinaz (71m1). yollotepitztilia, nino- . paciencia tener (55m). yollotepitztilia, nino- (oninoyollo tepitztili). animarse, yesforzarse (71m2). yollotepitztiliani, mo- . paciente (55m). yollotepitztiliztica, ne- . pacientemente (55m). yollotepitztiliztli. grandeza de cora?on (55m, 71m1). yollotepitztlacuactia, ni- (oniyollo tepitztlacuactiac). endurecerse y obstinarse (71m2). yollotepitztlacuactiliztli. endurecimiento assi (71m2). yopitzon, i-. his yopi crown (FC). From mclssaa2 at fs2.mt.umist.ac.uk Tue May 8 08:15:49 2001 From: mclssaa2 at fs2.mt.umist.ac.uk (Anthony Appleyard) Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 08:15:49 GMT Subject: No subject Message-ID: "r. joe campbell" wrote (Re: Ahuachpitzactzin):- > These are the occurrences of 'pitz' from the Florentine Codex and from > Molina's three dictionaries. The occurrences of 'pitz' in the FC that > are still unglossed are not included. Molina's glosses are given in his > original Spanish. > Joe > acapitzac, i-. his reed stalk (FC). > acapitzactla. carrizal (55m, 71m1, 71m2). ... ... etc etc over a hundred more lines. If these lines are extracted from an online copy of Molina's dictionary, and/or from some other big online Nahuatl to English and/or Spanish dictionary, please what is its WWW address? Molina online would be just the timng that a lot of us would want!!! From campbel at indiana.edu Tue May 8 18:50:34 2001 From: campbel at indiana.edu (r. joe campbell) Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 13:50:34 -0500 Subject: Molina and FC Vocabulary In-Reply-To: <200105081423.f48ENfv10645@server2.umt.edu> Message-ID: Anthony, The vocabulary I sent didn't come from an online resource. I extracted them from a database which contains, among other things: Molina, Spanish-Nahuatl (1555) Molina, Spanish-Nahuatl (1571) Molina, Nahuatl-Spanish (1571) Florentine Codex My wife (Mary Clayton) and I are preparing an integrated version of Molina and I am working towards 1) an English translation of the vocabulary of the Florentine Codex, and 2) a merged vocabulary covering both Molina and the FC. The process of adding the English glosses and doing the morphology for each Nahuatl word grinds on, but we are hoping that the end is not too far away. Of course, "far" is relative -- I started the preparation of the first section of the Molina database in 1970. Best regards, Joe On Tue, 8 May 2001, Anthony Appleyard wrote: > > acapitzac, i-. his reed stalk (FC). > > acapitzactla. carrizal (55m, 71m1, 71m2). ... > > ... etc etc over a hundred more lines. If these lines are extracted from an > online copy of Molina's dictionary, and/or from some other big online Nahuatl > to English and/or Spanish dictionary, please what is its WWW address? Molina > online would be just the timng that a lot of us would want!!! From Amapohuani at aol.com Tue May 8 19:13:32 2001 From: Amapohuani at aol.com (Amapohuani at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 15:13:32 EDT Subject: Molina and FC Vocabulary Message-ID: In a message dated 5/8/01 11:55:13 AM, campbel at indiana.edu writes: << My wife (Mary Clayton) and I are preparing an integrated version of Molina and I am working towards 1) an English translation of the vocabulary of the Florentine Codex, and 2) a merged vocabulary covering both Molina and the FC. The process of adding the English glosses and doing the morphology for each Nahuatl word grinds on, but we are hoping that the end is not too far away. Of course, "far" is relative -- I started the preparation of the first section of the Molina database in 1970. >> Joe: I will be ready to buy when it is published. Ye ixquich. Barry D. Sell From davius_sanctex at terra.es Tue May 8 12:10:08 2001 From: davius_sanctex at terra.es (David Sanchez) Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 14:10:08 +0200 Subject: Ingestion of human meat among aztecs Message-ID: According to recommendation of the FAO, a healthy diet requires a minimum of ingested meat, FAO estimates this minimum around 35g per day and person. One of the deficiencies of Mexico Valley was scarcity of animal meat providing a substantial number of proteins. The aztecs had domestic turkeys (huehxolonacatl), ducks and dogs (chichimeh) that provided some animal protein, wild fauna mainly provided American deer (maza:tl). But it has been calculated that this contribution were around 5 or 10g per day and person. My own calculations show that human sacrifices could provide exactly the necessary animal protein. The population of Tenochtitlan in early XVIth century was of 150000 or 200000 inhabitants; the number of human sacrifices was 15000 or perhaps 20000 in a year; according to physical characteristics of Mesoamericans I estimate the mean weight is around 65 kg (only a 70% or less of a person is edible): 15000person x 65000g/person x 0,70 / (365 x 150000 inhab) = 17 g Thus almost surely the quantity of human meat was between 13g and 22g per person and day. If we add 5 or 10g of domestic animal and wild animals we have that the total ingestion of animal protein was around 25 or 30g. This shows that no way human sacrifices were a barbarous and unnecessary practice, in fact the number of sacrifices was a number that provides a reasonably number of protein, this reveals a great practical and ecological wisdom. In my opinion, these facts are confirmed by historical facts like that of the great starvation of 1452. Finally Mesoamerican states decided to perform a "flowered war" (xo:chiya:o:tl), aside religious justifications ("gods must be nourished" or "drought is caused by the discontent of gods that are also hungry"), this xochiyaotl had two practical consequences: 1) The number of hungry persons reduced (a lot of them, would be sacrificed!) 2) The availability of protein increased greatly with the sacrifices. Perhaps the word 'suet, grease' was some type of metaphor relating "xochiyaotl" and the ingestion of meat. David S?nchez Universitat Polit?cnica de C. From schwallr at selway.umt.edu Tue May 8 20:11:06 2001 From: schwallr at selway.umt.edu (John F. Schwaller) Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 14:11:06 -0600 Subject: Molina and FC Vocabulary In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I can vouch for that, having been among the first crop, or so, of graduate students to work on these glossaries. I still have my notes from glossing the Molina. The real problem was the work study student who entered much of the data couldn't read the 16th century typeface, so most of the intervocalic 's' came out as 'f' Now look at me! Old and withered beyond my time all because of Nahuatl! At 01:50 PM 5/8/01 -0500, you wrote: > Of course, "far" is relative -- I >started the preparation of the first section of the Molina database in >1970. > >Best regards, > >Joe > John Frederick Schwaller schwallr at selway.umt.edu Associate Provost 406-243-4722 The University of Montana FAX 406-243-5937 http://www.umt.edu/provost/ From campbel at indiana.edu Tue May 8 20:33:22 2001 From: campbel at indiana.edu (r. joe campbell) Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 15:33:22 -0500 Subject: Molina and FC Vocabulary In-Reply-To: <13.155ee66d.28299f5c@aol.com> Message-ID: Thanks, Barry! We will put a virtual copy away for you right now. >8-) Joe > > I will be ready to buy when it is published. > > Ye ixquich. > Barry D. Sell > > From tenoch at pacbell.net Wed May 9 01:33:52 2001 From: tenoch at pacbell.net (Mexica Movement) Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 18:33:52 -0700 Subject: Ingestion of human meat among aztecs Message-ID: What non sense it this? Humans don't even need meat to have a healthy diet if enough protein is available. The Mexica adequately had more than enough, mixing corn mostly in tortillas and beans. The amino acids in both foods respectively combines to form a complete protein. Algae which grew in the Lake was pounded into "cakes" and provide proteing as well. Amaranth a lesser known grain, was also used extensively by the Mexica, and today it is known that this grain is superior for its protein content to other plant foods. Turkeys and dogs were also domesticated and provide other avenues of protein. Human sacrifice and ritual canabalism are not related to any phenomena that involves protein difficiency. These rites were important aspects of the theology and cosmology of the Mexica and other people of Anahuac. Itzcoatl Mexica Movement From mclssaa2 at fs2.mt.umist.ac.uk Wed May 9 08:46:44 2001 From: mclssaa2 at fs2.mt.umist.ac.uk (Anthony Appleyard) Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 08:46:44 GMT Subject: Molina and FC Vocabulary Message-ID: "r. joe campbell" wrote:- > My wife (Mary Clayton) and I are preparing an integrated version of > Molina and I am working towards 1) an English translation of the > vocabulary of the Florentine Codex, and 2) a merged vocabulary covering > both Molina and the FC. ... Thank you for your many efforts with all this work. Is there any possible idea when it will be ready? Will all the entries have English translations? For English-speakers, having to learn Spanish to be able to understand Molina is more work on top of learning Nahuatl. In Britain, Spanish is not much taught as a school subject. Will it be on paper or on a web page or on a CD-ROM or what? Will the Nahuatl spelling be standardized, e.g. marking vowel length and glottal stops? > The vocabulary ... I extracted them from a database ... Please who supplies that database? Citlalyani From dfrye at umich.edu Wed May 9 15:33:50 2001 From: dfrye at umich.edu (David L. Frye) Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 11:33:50 -0400 Subject: Ingestion of human meat among aztecs In-Reply-To: <000201c0d7f9$fb743760$1c0a523e@pc> Message-ID: This again? I thought this idea had been laid to rest years ago. There is NO "minimum" requirement for "animal" protein, and indeed no difference among amino acids no matter what their source. People can and do live long and healthy lives without ever having a taste of meat of any sort. Ask some of your vegan friends (you have some, even if you don't know it). My apologies to the list for replying at all. I hope this thread is cut soon. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ David Frye Latin American and Caribbean Studies Program Associate 2607 International Institute Bldg dfrye at umich.edu 1080 South University tel (734) 763-0553 Ann Arbor, MI 48109-1106 fax (734) 615-8880 http://www.umich.edu/~iinet/lacs/ From campbel at indiana.edu Wed May 9 16:55:38 2001 From: campbel at indiana.edu (r. joe campbell) Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 11:55:38 -0500 Subject: Molina and FC Vocabulary In-Reply-To: <200105091441.f49Efo525879@server2.umt.edu> Message-ID: Anthony, > Is there any possible idea when it will be ready? I wish it were possible to make an accurate estimate. On the Florentine side, the morphology is about 60.2% finished and the English glossing is about 59.85% finished. The percentages refer to the number of word *tokens*, so this is rosier than it looks on the surface (considering the fact that 'in' occurs over 30,000 times in the residue [out of the original set of 247,000+ tokens]). But the reason for a lot of words being in the current residue set is that they present some difficulties, so progress is uneven. The remaining work on Molina will be faster, but it's still impossible to make an accurate time estimate. > Will all the entries have English translations? On the Florentine, yes; on Molina, probably. Actually, since I did the English translation of the Nahuatl-Spanish 1571 in the mid 1970's, the answer is *very* probably. > Will it be on paper or on a web page or on a CD-ROM or what? Because of the size of the material and the relatively small size of the audience, I doubt that any publisher would see it as a feasible paper publication, CD-ROM seems like the most promising medium. > Will the Nahuatl spelling be standardized, e.g. marking vowel length and > glottal stops? The Nahuatl spelling will be regularized (e.g., no variability in 'u' and 'o', no 'v' for 'u' [therefore 'o' also], spelling of /w/, etc.), but it is not likely that each word type will be spelled with vowel length and glottal stops. However, that information will be supplied with the accompanying morphological information. Obviously, it would have been impossible to supply the vowel length and glottal detail without the invaluable reference of Fran Karttunen's dictionary. > > The vocabulary ... I extracted them from a database ... > Please who supplies that database? I wish there had been a supplier for the database. It has been constructed through a combination of work-study hours, my own key-punching (on Hollerith cards) and keying, that of my wife, professional key-punching hours in a university computing center, and optical scanning. The Nahuatl part of the Florentine, I owe to collaboration with a good friend who did well over half of the work (with super-human accuracy and energy). As I mentioned before, it was started in 1970 (with the initial work on Molina, Nahuatl-Spanish, 1571) and other sections were added later. Best regards, Joe From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Wed May 9 17:07:27 2001 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael Mccafferty) Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 12:07:27 -0500 Subject: Molina et al. Message-ID: There was no experience in school more enjoyable than plowing through Molina with Joe. Now, he did a Carochi dictionary if you're biting at the bit. Am I right about that? University of Wisconsin Press, I believe. BTW, is Thelma Sullivan's _Compendio de la Grammatica Nahuatl_ in print either in english or in spanish? It's a great book for all the classical texts at the end that give examples of the grammar. Michael McCafferty From swood at darkwing.uoregon.edu Wed May 9 19:37:50 2001 From: swood at darkwing.uoregon.edu (Stephanie Wood) Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 12:37:50 -0700 Subject: numbers of Nahuatl speakers? Message-ID: Does anyone have information from the 2000 Mexican census about the numbers of indigenous language speakers? Linda King published a table showing 1,197,328 speakers of Nahuatl in Mexico according to the 1990 census. Her table shows the numbers of speakers of other native languages, too, such as Maya, Mixtec, Zapotec, etc. This was published this in her book, Roots of Identity: Language & Literacy in Mexico (1994, p. 88). This is a great table, but I would love to have more recent figures, as soon as they are available. Thanks for any help anyone can lend! Stephanie Wood Department of History University of Oregon swood at darkwing.uoregon.edu From juergen.stowasser at univie.ac.at Wed May 9 21:04:33 2001 From: juergen.stowasser at univie.ac.at (Juergen Stowasser) Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 23:04:33 +0200 Subject: numbers of Nahuatl speakers? Message-ID: I know only the data of the 1995 census (1,623,993 speakers of Nahuatl); for the whole table of the different indigenous languages see http://sedesol.sedesol.gob.mx/perfiles/nacional/english/05_demography.html best Juergen Stephanie Wood schrieb: > Does anyone have information from the 2000 Mexican census about the numbers > of indigenous language speakers? Linda King published a table showing > 1,197,328 speakers of Nahuatl in Mexico according to the 1990 census. Her > table shows the numbers of speakers of other native languages, too, such as > Maya, Mixtec, Zapotec, etc. This was published this in her book, Roots of > Identity: Language & Literacy in Mexico (1994, p. 88). This is a great > table, but I would love to have more recent figures, as soon as they are > available. Thanks for any help anyone can lend! > > Stephanie Wood > Department of History > University of Oregon > swood at darkwing.uoregon.edu -- Juergen Stowasser Burggasse 114/2/8 A-1070 Wien - Vien(n)a Austria tel: 01/ 524 54 60 v 0676/ 398 66 79 http://www.univie.ac.at/meso From lesbre at univ-tlse2.fr Wed May 9 15:42:23 2001 From: lesbre at univ-tlse2.fr (Patrick LESBRE) Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 17:42:23 +0200 Subject: Ingestion of human meat among aztecs Message-ID: Estimado David, Sus calculos tienen un defecto basico : las estimaciones anuales para sacrificios humanos en Mexico no pueden alcanzar 15000 o 20 000 personas : tiene que quitarles por lo minimo un cero. El estreno del nuevo Templo Mayor por Ahuizotl en 1487 con unas 20 000 victimas segun el codice Telleriano-Remensis fue un acontecimiento excepcional, en ningun caso algo anual. Otras fuentes hablan mas bien de un promedio anual de unas 1500 personas para MexicoTenochtitlan y 300 para Tezcoco. Atentamente Patrick LESBRE Universit? de Toulouse II 5 all?es Antonio Machado 31058 TOULOUSE tel/ fax : 05 61 14 26 99 courriel : lesbre at univ-tlse2.fr rpg7 jtf-6 From dakin at servidor.unam.mx Wed May 9 18:08:13 2001 From: dakin at servidor.unam.mx (Karen Dakin) Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 13:08:13 -0500 Subject: Molina et al. Message-ID: on 5/9/01 12:07 PM, Michael Mccafferty at mmccaffe at indiana.edu wrote: > > There was no experience in school more enjoyable than plowing through > Molina with Joe. > > Now, he did a Carochi dictionary if you're biting at the bit. Am I right > about that? University of Wisconsin Press, I believe. > > BTW, is Thelma Sullivan's _Compendio de la Grammatica Nahuatl_ in print > either in english or in spanish? It's a great book for all the classical > texts at the end that give examples of the grammar. > > > Michael McCafferty > > I think at least the English edition of the Compendio is still in print (Univ. of Utah), and should note that the principal function I had as a coeditor of the translation was to check the Nahuatl examples with the original sources, since Thelma at times had not been entirely consistent, sometimes regularizing and sometimes not, so the examples in the English edition are more true to the originals (and any errors would be mine after that). Also a note for those interested that her decision about the English version was that vowel length should be marked only in the section on phonology, and in other sections only in examples in which it was marked originally, for instance, those from Carochi, given the fact that sometimes there just wasn't any source to verify what it should be. Glottal stops were marked in the grammar, but not in examples unless present in originals. We tried to finish the editing after her death by following her wishes as much as possible From rude at stanford.edu Wed May 9 19:16:46 2001 From: rude at stanford.edu (Rudiger V. Busto) Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 12:16:46 -0700 Subject: Molina et al. Message-ID: As long as we are praising R. Joe Campbell, I have found his _A Morphological Dictionary of Classical Nahuatl: A Morpheme Index to the Vocabulario en lengua mexicana y castellana of Fray Alonso de Molina_ (Madison: Hispanic Seminary of Medieval Studies, 1985) to be extremely valuable and easy to navigate. >There was no experience in school more enjoyable than plowing through >Molina with Joe. > >Now, he did a Carochi dictionary if you're biting at the bit. Am I right >about that? University of Wisconsin Press, I believe. > >BTW, is Thelma Sullivan's _Compendio de la Grammatica Nahuatl_ in print >either in english or in spanish? It's a great book for all the classical >texts at the end that give examples of the grammar. > > >Michael McCafferty -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Rudy V. Busto rude at stanford.edu Assistant Professor 650.723.0465 (office) Religious Studies 650.725.1476 (fax) Stanford University Stanford, CA 94305-2165 "...who knows what the ostrich sees in the sand ? " --- Samuel Beckett From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx Wed May 9 23:24:53 2001 From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright) Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 17:24:53 -0600 Subject: numbers of Nahuatl speakers? Message-ID: Hola, Stephanie. The Instituto Nacional de Estadistica, Geografia e Informatica published very detailed data from the 1990 census in Hablantes de lengua indigena, XI censo general de poblacion y vivienda, 1990 (Mexico, INEGI, 1993). It's still available at INEGI bookstores throughout Mexico; I bought one a couple of months ago. If last decade's work is any indication, we won't be seeing a similar publication from 2000 census data for another couple of years. Preliminary results from the 2000 census are available on line, but native language data isn't included. See http://www.inegi.gob.mx/. De: Stephanie Wood [...] > Does anyone have information from the 2000 Mexican census about the numbers > of indigenous language speakers? Linda King published a table showing > 1,197,328 speakers of Nahuatl in Mexico according to the 1990 census. Her > table shows the numbers of speakers of other native languages, too, such as > Maya, Mixtec, Zapotec, etc. This was published this in her book, Roots of > Identity: Language & Literacy in Mexico (1994, p. 88). This is a great > table, but I would love to have more recent figures, as soon as they are > available. Thanks for any help anyone can lend! From davius_sanctex at terra.es Wed May 9 23:39:41 2001 From: davius_sanctex at terra.es (David Sanchez) Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 01:39:41 +0200 Subject: Ingestion of human meat among aztecs Message-ID: Dear Itzcoatl: I think we have crashed with a extremely "euro-american" taboo. I'm an inconditional admirer and lover of Ancient Mesoamerican civilization and of its achievements and wisdomful civilized practices. But scientific studies of hypotheses must be free from political or culture prejudices of the investigators. > What non sense it this? Why a non-sense? It is only an hypothesis, no one has claimed it is a conclusive fact. Michael Harner (1977) appointed this hypothesis, and althought it has been criticized, it is the best explanation of the ritualization of cannibalism, in terms of anthropological infrastructure. Ingestion of the bodies of enemies is a common in many non-state cultures. But state civilizations generally regard more useful slavery and other forms of submission that imply exploitation of manpower of defeated enemies. Only in situations where the cannibalism take advantage is maintained. In general modern anthropologist tend to explain facts about the structure (organization that regulates exchange of goods, work and information) and superstructures (behaviour concerning religious, artistic, entertainment and intellectual facts) in terms of infrastructure (technologies, available resources, environmental constrictions). This view has been named by some anthropologists, "cultural materialism". There is a strong evidence supporting this view. A great number of differences among cultures have been explained very satisfactorily in terms of infrastructure. For example, pigs are a very important foodstuff among New Guineans and consequently in their religious believes pigs are important. On the other hand, pigs were relatively insignificant for south-arabic peoples and Islam in fact forbids the ingestion of pork (this couldn't have been successful in New Guinea!) >Humans don't even need meat to have a healthy diet if enough protein is >available. But in fact, human tend to desire animal proteins, because it is a more rich and concentrate source of proteins. Cultures like that of the yanomamo (Amazonian forest) shows that although they can be nourished only with vegetable foods (mainly bananas), they declare war on their enemies for a better access to animal meat. > Human sacrifice and ritual canabalism are not related to any phenomena > that involves protein difficiency. Theology and cosmology as "cultural materialism" demonstrates is extremely dependent of environmental and infra-structural factors! Best wishes, for your Mexica Movement! David Sanchez UNIVERSITAT POLIT?CNICA DE CATALUNYA C/ Jordi Girona, 13 08034 Barcelona From War14655 at aol.com Thu May 10 00:11:22 2001 From: War14655 at aol.com (War14655 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 20:11:22 EDT Subject: Ingestion of human meat among aztecs Message-ID: Dear Dave: That's the key word, "desire." There is no need for animal protein, only desire. Have you ever considered the fact that when Tenochtitlan's citizens were being seized upon by the enemy, having the water and food supply cut off for over 70 days, that even during a terrible crisis like the spanish siege, the citizens of Tenochtitlan, staring death in the face, STILL had no "desire" to indulge upon human flesh even when the practice of human cannablism could have been justified considering the circumstance, for example the Donner party? So much for your hypothesis... Sincerely, Ahuitzotl -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cristi at ix.netcom.com Thu May 10 01:16:48 2001 From: cristi at ix.netcom.com (cristi at ix.netcom.com) Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 19:16:48 -0600 Subject: Ingestion of human meat among aztecs In-Reply-To: <002901c0d8e1$52670ba0$dc06523e@pc> Message-ID: > I think we have crashed with a extremely "euro-american" taboo. Taboos had nothing to do with Itzcoatl's reply. Common sense and fact were all he presented. > > What non sense it this? > Why a non-sense? It is only an hypothesis, no one has claimed it is a > conclusive fact. Yes, but as a scientist, I can tell you that many hypotheses are nonsense, just as this particular hypothesis is nonsense. It's utterly ridiculous, both from the standpoint of human nutrition and existing cultural histories. It is the product of an ethnocentric European mind with too little imagination. Finally, it is utterly inappropriate for this forum. Can we end this here, and get back to the forum's purpose? Cristi From War14655 at aol.com Thu May 10 01:36:11 2001 From: War14655 at aol.com (War14655 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 21:36:11 EDT Subject: Ingestion of human meat among aztecs Message-ID: Niltze Cristi: Ica melahuac motlatoltin cenca cuacualtzin. I agree with Cristi; let's focus back onto the forum and forget about this inappropriate discussion. Ahuitzotl -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mdmorris at indiana.edu Thu May 10 18:39:24 2001 From: mdmorris at indiana.edu (Mark David Morris) Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 13:39:24 -0500 Subject: Molina and FC Vocabulary In-Reply-To: Message-ID: List, R. Joe Campbell has suffered me saying this for several years, so I will dare to express my opinion publicly well aware that I know little of what I speak. I too have been eager to see Joe's finished Florentine Codice morphological study, a study that Angel Garibay urged when he first published his LLave del Nahuatl and critical edition of Las Cosas de la Nueva Espana. In fact, I would put Joe's work as an international priority for Nahuatl studies and I hope that he is able to find the help and resources he needs to finish it. Second, Joe and many others of his generation, by my understanding, were the first generation of linguists to extensively use computer, and Joe was certainly a pioneer, carrying a trailer truck full of punch cards for the Molina dictionary when he moved to Bloomington, Indiana. I know the Wenner-Gren (sp?) foundation has grants available for the preservation of scholars' anthropological materials. I think it would be a strong benefit to future generations if all this unpublished information that people like Joe Campbell, Fran Kartunnen etc. etc. have on cumputer were not lost but were collected in a central place where it could be used by future generations. On another subject, a guy from Tetlanohcan, Tlaxcala mentioned that pulque is called "white face," which I assume has some relation with Mayahuel. Would anyone like to expatiate on the symbolic relation between "white face" and pulque? Happy Mothers' Day y'all, Mark Morris ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ La muerte tiene permiso a todo MDM, PhD Candidate Dept. of History, Indiana Univ. From owner-nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu Fri May 11 03:02:00 2001 From: owner-nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu (owner-nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu) Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 21:02:00 -0600 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Dear list members Sender: owner-nahuat-l at majordomo.umt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nahuat-l at majordomo.umt.edu Every year or so we become embroiled in a debate over human sacrifice among the Nahua. Thes disucssions engender much heat and very littl light. Consequently, as list owner, I implore you to sease this discussion. If you wish to carry it on among yourselves, outside of the discussion list, please do so. But please let's stop now. Thanks you, J. F. Schwaller List owner From mikegaby at hotmail.com Sat May 12 06:22:44 2001 From: mikegaby at hotmail.com (mike gaby) Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 06:22:44 -0000 Subject: Molina and FC Vocabulary Message-ID: Joe, You may find there are more interested parties out there than you realize. I too, look forward to the completion of this work. You'll be sure to alert the list when ready, for those who observe quietly. Mike Gaby >From: "r. joe campbell" >Reply-To: nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu >To: nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu >Subject: Re: Molina and FC Vocabulary >Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 11:55:38 -0500 (EST) > >Anthony, > > > Is there any possible idea when it will be ready? > > I wish it were possible to make an accurate estimate. On the Florentine >side, the morphology is about 60.2% finished and the English glossing is >about 59.85% finished. The percentages refer to the number of word >*tokens*, so this is rosier than it looks on the surface (considering the >fact that 'in' occurs over 30,000 times in the residue [out of the >original set of 247,000+ tokens]). But the reason for a lot of words >being in the current residue set is that they present some difficulties, >so progress is uneven. > > The remaining work on Molina will be faster, but it's still impossible >to make an accurate time estimate. > > > Will all the entries have English translations? > > On the Florentine, yes; on Molina, probably. Actually, since I did the >English translation of the Nahuatl-Spanish 1571 in the mid 1970's, the >answer is *very* probably. > > > > > > > Will it be on paper or on a web page or on a CD-ROM or what? > > > Because of the size of the material and the relatively small size of >the audience, I doubt that any publisher would see it as a feasible paper >publication, CD-ROM seems like the most promising medium. > > > > Will the Nahuatl spelling be standardized, e.g. marking vowel length and > > glottal stops? > > The Nahuatl spelling will be regularized (e.g., no variability in 'u' >and 'o', no 'v' for 'u' [therefore 'o' also], spelling of /w/, etc.), but >it is not likely that each word type will be spelled with vowel length and >glottal stops. However, that information will be supplied with the >accompanying morphological information. Obviously, it would have been >impossible to supply the vowel length and glottal detail without the >invaluable reference of Fran Karttunen's dictionary. > > > > > The vocabulary ... I extracted them from a database ... > > Please who supplies that database? > > I wish there had been a supplier for the database. It has been >constructed through a combination of work-study hours, my own key-punching >(on Hollerith cards) and keying, that of my wife, professional >key-punching hours in a university computing center, and optical scanning. >The Nahuatl part of the Florentine, I owe to collaboration with a good >friend who did well over half of the work (with super-human accuracy and >energy). As I mentioned before, it was started in 1970 (with the initial >work on Molina, Nahuatl-Spanish, 1571) and other sections were added >later. > >Best regards, > >Joe > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From mdmorris at indiana.edu Sat May 12 19:29:46 2001 From: mdmorris at indiana.edu (Mark David Morris) Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 14:29:46 -0500 Subject: numbers of Nahuatl speakers? In-Reply-To: <002d01c0d8bf$891546c0$6ed1df80@uoregon.edu> Message-ID: Stephanie et al, I went by the regional Tlaxcala office of INEGI yesterday. They do not yet have detailed descriptions of speakers of indigenous languages for the 200 census, but expect to have them in a few months. What they have are numbers of speakers, by male-female and by population size. The total number of speakers of indigenous languages increased from 5,483,555 to 6,274,418. One factor in the increase other than natural population increase might be a higher incidence of reporting. The 1995 census records 26,886 Nahuatl speakers in Tlaxcala, and if you know the region you will note that that figure is probably low by at least 10,000, probably resulting from people not wanting to admit that they speak an indigenous language. best, Mark Morris P.S. Class note for this week: To distinguish -tia from -huia xochitia - make one to have flowers xochihuia - make on have flowers inside, i.e bewitch other examples: nimotezcahuia, I look in the mirror nicxelhuahuizhuia in metatl, I scrub-sweep the metate ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ La muerte tiene permiso a todo MDM, PhD Candidate Dept. of History, Indiana Univ. From davius_sanctex at terra.es Tue May 15 21:40:27 2001 From: davius_sanctex at terra.es (David Sanchez) Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 23:40:27 +0200 Subject: Teyocoyani Message-ID: I have not found the verbal stem from which we have . Is perhaps this form some variant of : I found in a poem of Nezahualcoyotl: ... Mach i:lihuiztia:, ne:mia te:hui:c, TEYACONI? The mean of expression "nemia tehuic" is nearly that of teyocoyani ... ? David S?nchez Universitat Polit?cnica de Catalunya From santo at cua.edu Wed May 16 17:24:16 2001 From: santo at cua.edu (Santo, Joseph A.) Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 13:24:16 -0400 Subject: request for assistance Message-ID: I am writing from the School of Music of The Catholic University of America, Washington, D.C. I am a composer, and I am attempting to confirm the accuracy of a short text (for musical purposes), which I believe to be in nahuatl. I found the text on an internet site, and it is supposed to be a translation of the "Ave, Mar?a." Since I am interested particularly in the second half of the prayer, I am copying only that part here: ...Santa Maria?, Dios Inantzin?, ma topan ximotl?tolti in titl?tlacoanime in axcan, ihuan in?quac y? tomiquiztempan. Ma yuh mochihua. This is supposed to translate: "Santa Mar?a, Madre de Dios, ruega por nosotros pecadores ahora y en la hora de nuestra muerte. Am?n." I am trying to ascertain (a) whether it is indeed in correct nahuatl; (b) the accuracy of the nahuatl translation; (c) how or if the circumflex on some of the vowels changes the pronunciation of that vowel or accentuation of the word, e.g. ?, ?, ?; and (d) what is the effect on pronunciation/stress of the final grave e (Maria?, Inantzin?), which looks like a vocative. I understand that stress is on the second to the last syllable in nahuatl, though I am not aware if there are any exceptions. I would be most grateful for any assistance anyone might be able to offer regarding this short text. Sincerely, Dr. Joseph Santo Benjamin T. Rome School of Music The Catholic University of America Washington, D.C. From heatherhess at hotmail.com Wed May 16 17:40:42 2001 From: heatherhess at hotmail.com (Heather Hess) Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 13:40:42 -0400 Subject: request for assistance Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From heatherhess at hotmail.com Wed May 16 17:41:33 2001 From: heatherhess at hotmail.com (Heather Hess) Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 13:41:33 -0400 Subject: request for assistance Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Amapohuani at aol.com Wed May 16 18:16:27 2001 From: Amapohuani at aol.com (Amapohuani at aol.com) Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 14:16:27 EDT Subject: request for assistance Message-ID: In a message dated 5/16/01 10:30:27 AM, santo at cua.edu writes: << Santa Maria?, Dios Inantzin?, ma topan ximotl?tolti in titl?tlacoanime in axcan, ihuan in?quac y? tomiquiztempan. Ma yuh mochihua. >> O Saint Mary, O mother of God, intercede for us sinners, now and when we are about to die/when we at the time of our death. My it so be done/Amen. One can translate various ways in English. Ye ixquich. Barry D. Sell From karttu at nantucket.net Wed May 16 22:04:27 2001 From: karttu at nantucket.net (Frances Karttunen) Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 18:04:27 -0400 Subject: request for assistance Message-ID: > (c) how or if the > circumflex on some of the vowels changes the pronunciation of that vowel > or accentuation of the word, e.g. ?, ?, ? The circumflex indicates that the vowel is sharply cut off by closing of the glottis. It does not shift the stress away from the next-to-last syllable. > (d) what is the effect on > pronunciation/stress of the final grave e (Maria?, Inantzin?), which > looks like a vocative. I understand that stress is on the second to the > last syllable in nahuatl, though I am not aware if there are any > exceptions. The exception is in the male vocative, which adds the stressed vowel -e to names and appellations. In the form of the Ave Maria quoted, it is a man praying for the intercession of the Virgin. A woman speaking the same prayer would not add the stressed -e. Hence the stress would fall as normally on the next-to-last syllable. Fran Karttunen From heatherhess at hotmail.com Thu May 17 14:23:40 2001 From: heatherhess at hotmail.com (Heather Hess) Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 10:23:40 -0400 Subject: request for assistance Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davius_sanctex at terra.es Thu May 17 20:54:23 2001 From: davius_sanctex at terra.es (David Sanchez) Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 22:54:23 +0200 Subject: Guatemala / Cuauhtemallan Message-ID: I have some difficulties with the interpretation of Quauhtemal(l)an (> Guatemala). Is correct this analysis? /quauh-te:mal-tlan/ 'the place filled up of wood' If this is not correct, what is the correct meaning of "Guatemala"? David S. Universitat Polit?cnica de Catalunya From davius_sanctex at terra.es Thu May 17 21:00:38 2001 From: davius_sanctex at terra.es (David Sanchez) Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 23:00:38 +0200 Subject: icnopilli / icnopilti Message-ID: Karttunen Analytical dictionary states: 1) icn?pilli / ?kno: - pil - tl? / (? epenthetic "i") fatherless child 2) icn?pilti /?kno: - pil - ti / 'to prosper in life, to be favored' By what mysterious chance such a paradoxical change of meaning had happened? Can someone to see the connexion? From mdmorris at indiana.edu Thu May 17 21:32:49 2001 From: mdmorris at indiana.edu (Mark David Morris) Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 16:32:49 -0500 Subject: icnopilli / icnopilti In-Reply-To: <000d01c0df14$6dd83600$3a08523e@pc> Message-ID: David, What's lost in the glosses is the Mesoamerican (or at least Nahua) idea of merit, and that is that you merit by suffering. Hence, icno-tl while meaning literally orphaned is used broadly to suggest merit and compassion, e.g. icnoitta, consider with compassion. Icnopilti suggests not that one prospers by luck but by having paid one's dues in one way or another. best, Mark Morris ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ La muerte tiene permiso a todo MDM, PhD Candidate Dept. of History, Indiana Univ. From mclssaa2 at fs2.mt.umist.ac.uk Fri May 18 09:30:06 2001 From: mclssaa2 at fs2.mt.umist.ac.uk (Anthony Appleyard) Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 09:30:06 GMT Subject: Guatemala / Cuauhtemallan In-Reply-To: <000701c0df13$8e818740$3a08523e@pc> Message-ID: "David Sanchez" wrote:- > I have some difficulties with the interpretation of > Quauhtemal(l)an (> Guatemala). Is correct this analysis? > /quauh-te:mal-tlan/ 'the place filled up of wood' > If this is not correct, what is the correct meaning of "Guatemala"? Could it be derived from {cua:uh} = "eagle"? I read once that the Aztecs took as tribute from somewhere in that direction each year "a live eagle, or as many as can be got". Citlalya:ni From pthajovs at midway.uchicago.edu Fri May 18 15:12:57 2001 From: pthajovs at midway.uchicago.edu (patrick thomas hajovsky) Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 10:12:57 -0500 Subject: icnopilli / icnopilti In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I'm not sure about using this word to imply merit--compassion is clear in Molina's Vocabulario. Merit is gained through other means besides compassion; compassion, like empathy, implies an equality between agent and patient. Merit, on the other hand, involves judgement. Check out icnotlacayotl, Molina's entry for "horfandad o miseria," which seems to be an abstraction of man's suffering in general rather than something earned. I think part of the problem is that the word may have had different meanings in different areas: the entry for fate comes from Tetelcingo, Morelos. Molina does not give a similar meaning. Instead, the causative icnopiltia means "to stay an orphan." Karttunen lists Icnopilti as an irregular verb, from Simeon, taking only possessive prefixes. It seems thus to imply that one takes control of one's own fate, as well as the individual and rather isolated quality of fate itself. Patrick _______________________________ ixquich in pepetlaca xteocuitla On Thu, 17 May 2001, Mark David Morris wrote: > > David, > > What's lost in the glosses is the Mesoamerican (or at least Nahua) idea of > merit, and that is that you merit by suffering. Hence, icno-tl while > meaning literally orphaned is used broadly to suggest merit and > compassion, e.g. icnoitta, consider with compassion. Icnopilti suggests > not that one prospers by luck but by having paid one's dues in one way or > another. > > best, > Mark Morris > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > La muerte tiene permiso a todo > > MDM, PhD Candidate > Dept. of History, Indiana Univ. > > From mdmorris at indiana.edu Sat May 19 17:12:57 2001 From: mdmorris at indiana.edu (Mark David Morris) Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 12:12:57 -0500 Subject: icnopilli / icnopilti In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Patrick, Thanks for your comments; however, verbs derived or modified with icno clearly relate to merit. You might want to check the relevant sections of Carochi. best, Mark Morris ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ La muerte tiene permiso a todo MDM, PhD Candidate Dept. of History, Indiana Univ. From pthajovs at midway.uchicago.edu Sun May 20 02:25:59 2001 From: pthajovs at midway.uchicago.edu (patrick thomas hajovsky) Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 21:25:59 -0500 Subject: icnopilli / icnopilti In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Mark, That's really interesting; you've got some of my wheels turning... I'm wondering if there are other ways to describe merit, and if "merit" can be considered as an aspect of fate rather than something acquired through honor. And getting back to David's question, if both forms with icno were in operation at the same time and in the same places. I'll check out the Carochi. Thanks for the response. Patrick _______________________________ ixquich in pepetlaca xteocuitla On Sat, 19 May 2001, Mark David Morris wrote: > Patrick, > > Thanks for your comments; however, verbs derived or modified with icno > clearly relate to merit. You might want to check the relevant sections of > Carochi. best, > Mark Morris > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > La muerte tiene permiso a todo > > MDM, PhD Candidate > Dept. of History, Indiana Univ. > > From kammler at rz.uni-frankfurt.de Wed May 16 00:08:06 2001 From: kammler at rz.uni-frankfurt.de (kammler at rz.uni-frankfurt.de) Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 02:08:06 +0200 Subject: numbers of Nahuatl speakers? Message-ID: The total number of speakers as well as regional numbers will probably never be exact because: who is a "speaker" (se below)? INI's decision to classify people by the language the head of the household speaks is a major step forward in estimating the population of ethnic groups in Mexico. Sometime in the future the linguistic criterion will probably not be so relevant anymore as more and more household tend to use Spanish with their children leading to an irreversible language erosion. These children will understand nahuatl as it is spoken in the community but will in turn not use it with their own children at all who will be monolingual in Spanish. The number of speakers of Nahuatl is under these circumstances only not dwindling because the birth rates in those communities that stick to the language are very high. Thus, nahuatl loses territory whereas the number of speakers will stagnate (but still we don't know how many they are). In fact, in Guerrero there are prominent political leaders that claim to be nahuas without having any substantial knowledge of the language (they come from communities nahuas that have ceased to use the language about 50 years ago). In statistics they will surely be counted as nahuas without being "speakers". There are probably still many speakers that deny being one. On the other hand it is becoming prestigious within certain non-indigenous sections of society to claim fluency in one of the "ancestral" languages, above all Nahuatl. The INEGI will at any rate not assess those people's claim of fluency. The statistics are also misleading in the assumption that "nahuas" are an ethnic group. My personal observation is that nahuas from different regions recognise their linguistic proximity without atributing much importance to it. (Of course their are exceptions, especially among intellectuals of nahua origin.) In conversation with each other they would use Spanish as it can be quite a challenge to understand the other's dialect. An overarching "identity" is more likely to be found under "ind?gena" or "campesino" or in some cases "artesano". Even in couples where the spouses come from villages within the same region (again in Guerrero) will often speak exclusively in Spanish within their houshold - the minor linguistic differences between them will often be given as one of the reasons not teach their children nahuatl. Whose Nahuatl should they learn? Likewise the children of the current director of the INI, who is a Nahua from San Juan Acatl?n, Gro., are not learning their paternal language. After all: What does a global number of speakers tell us about the language? In the case of Nahuatl there might be some unique regional variants with ten elderly speakers left as well as some variants with 25.000 spekeras in all age groups with a high percentage of monolinguals. They all are counted as "Nahuas". just my 2 cents... ta m?stla Henry John Frederick Schwaller schwallr at selway.umt.edu Associate Provost 406-243-4722 The University of Montana FAX 406-243-5937 http://www.umt.edu/provost/ From schwallr at selway.umt.edu Mon May 21 15:24:17 2001 From: schwallr at selway.umt.edu (John F. Schwaller) Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 09:24:17 -0600 Subject: Ave Maria Message-ID: Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 09:00:56 -0700 To: nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu From: "Rudiger V. Busto" Subject: Ave Maria Icazbalceta's _Codice Franciscano_ records the following version of the Ave Maria (1546): Ma ximopaquiltitie Sancta Mariae: timotemiltitica in gratia, Motlantzinco moytetztica in talotani Dios inic cenca tiyecteneualoni tiquimmoopanauilia in exquichtin ciua: yuan cenca yecteneualoni in itlaaquillo in moxillantzin Jesu Cristo. Yyo Sancta Mariae matopan ximotlatolti in titlatlacoani. Mayuh mochiua. Dios te salve , Sancta Maria: llena eres de gracia: el Senor es contigo: bendita eres entre todas y sobre todas las mujeres, y tambien es muy bendito el fructo de ut vientre Jesucristo. Oh Sancta Maria! Ruega por nosotros pecadores. NOTE: absence of "..in the hour of our deaths, Amen" ORIGINAL INQUIRY: Since I am interested particularly in the second half of the prayer, I am copying only that part here: ...Santa Maria?, Dios Inantzin?, ma topan ximotl?tolti in titl?tlacoanime in axcan, ihuan in?quac y? tomiquiztempan. Ma yuh mochihua. This is supposed to translate: "Santa Mar?a, Madre de Dios, ruega por nosotros pecadores ahora y en la hora de nuestra muerte. Am?n." -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Rudy V. Busto rude at stanford.edu Assistant Professor 650.723.0465 (office) Religious Studies 650.725.1476 (fax) Stanford University Stanford, CA 94305-2165 "...who knows what the ostrich sees in the sand ? " --- Samuel Beckett From mclssaa2 at fs2.mt.umist.ac.uk Mon May 21 16:41:56 2001 From: mclssaa2 at fs2.mt.umist.ac.uk (Anthony Appleyard) Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 16:41:56 GMT Subject: numbers of Nahuatl speakers? In-Reply-To: <200105211513.f4LFDo908876@server2.umt.edu> Message-ID: To avoid one reason for Nahuas to have to learn Spanish: what Nahuatl (and Mayan etc) language radio and TV programs and newspapers are there? From salvador at iastate.edu Mon May 21 16:27:30 2001 From: salvador at iastate.edu (Ricardo J. Salvador) Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 11:27:30 -0500 Subject: numbers of Nahuatl speakers? Message-ID: At 4:41 PM +0000 5/21/01, Anthony Appleyard wrote: >To avoid one reason for Nahuas to have to learn Spanish: what Nahuatl (and >Mayan etc) language radio and TV programs and newspapers are there? Not much in this vein. Nahuatl: Radio Huayacocotla (Hueyacocotla, Veracruz) http://www.sjsocial.org/Radio/huarad.html Zapotec: La Voz de la Sierra (Guelatao, Oaxaca) http://www.oaxaca-mio.com/recursos/radioyprensa.htm Purepecha: Radio Nicola=EDta (Morelia, Michoacan) -- Ricardo J. Salvador E-mail: salvador at iastate.edu 1126 Agronomy Hall Voice: (515) 294-9595 Iowa State University Fax: (515) 294-8146 Ames IA 50011-1010 WWW: http://www.public.iastate.edu/~rjsalvad From davius_sanctex at terra.es Mon May 21 21:22:54 2001 From: davius_sanctex at terra.es (David Sanchez) Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 23:22:54 +0200 Subject: Aztec Cannibalism Message-ID: Science 12 May 1978 Vl. 200, No. 4342 pages 611-617 Aztec Cannibalism: An Ecological Necessity? The Aztec diet was adequate in protein and cannibalism would not have contributed greatly. Bernard R. Ortiz de Montellano: http://www.rose-hulman.edu/~delacova/aztecs/montellano.htm -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mdmorris at indiana.edu Mon May 21 21:46:39 2001 From: mdmorris at indiana.edu (Mark David Morris) Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 16:46:39 -0500 Subject: numbers of Nahuatl speakers? In-Reply-To: <200105211716.f4LHGmB12871@server2.umt.edu> Message-ID: Sorry I don't have time to add a full response to the recent discussion; however, you might find it amusing that I got myself counted as a Nahuatl speaker in Sta. Maria Atlihuetzia, Tlaxcala last year. The question, hence, was open ended enough that I was able to report Nahuatl in the household without exaggerating, i.e. I didn't claim I was a native speaker, that I had complete proficiency in the language etc. The questions was pretty low key. Viva La Virgen de Ocotlan! Mark Morris ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ La muerte tiene permiso a todo MDM, PhD Candidate Dept. of History, Indiana Univ. From LaVoz at Aztlan.Net Mon May 21 22:54:54 2001 From: LaVoz at Aztlan.Net (La Voz de Aztlan) Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 15:54:54 -0700 Subject: No subject In-Reply-To: Message-ID: inquiry From Amapohuani at aol.com Mon May 21 23:42:00 2001 From: Amapohuani at aol.com (Amapohuani at aol.com) Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 19:42:00 EDT Subject: numbers of Nahuatl speakers? Message-ID: In a message dated 5/21/01 2:54:06 PM, mdmorris at indiana.edu writes: << Sorry I don't have time to add a full response to the recent discussion; however, you might find it amusing that I got myself counted as a Nahuatl speaker in Sta. Maria Atlihuetzia, Tlaxcala last year. The question, hence, was open ended enough that I was able to report Nahuatl in the household without exaggerating, i.e. I didn't claim I was a native speaker, that I had complete proficiency in the language etc. The questions was pretty low key. Viva La Virgen de Ocotlan! Mark Morris >> Amazing!! Ye ixquich. Barry D. Sell From LaVoz at Aztlan.Net Tue May 22 01:27:53 2001 From: LaVoz at Aztlan.Net (La Voz de Aztlan) Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 18:27:53 -0700 Subject: "La Ley Azteca" - Re: homosexualidad y lesbianismo In-Reply-To: <77.14f981ee.283b01c8@aol.com> Message-ID: Commentary appreciated from members of the nahuat-l list on the following study by Bernarda Reza Ramirez of the Universidad Abierta de Mexico concerning views and punishment of homosexuality and lesbianism by Los Aztecas: La Voz de Aztlan http://www.aztlan.net Full study is at: http://www.universidadabierta.edu.mx/Biblio/R/Reza%20Bernarda-Llave%20Veracruz.htm BREVE HISTORIA DE LAS C?RCELES PREHISP?NICAS 1.1 C?RCELES AZTECAS El Derecho Penal prehisp?nico, fue rudimentario, s?mbolo de una civilizaci?n que no hab?a alcanzado la perfecci?n en las leyes, El Derecho Penal Mexicano ha escrito Kohleres testimonio de severidad moral, de concepci?n dura de la vida y de notable cohesi?n pol?tica, El sistema penal era casi draconiano?. La restituci?n al ofendido era la base principal para resolver los actos antisociales, El destierro o la muerte era la suerte que esperaba al malhechor que pon?a en peligro a la comunidad. Se empleaban jaulas y cercados para confinar a los prisioneros, antes de juzgarlos o sacrificarlos, Desde luego, tales jaulas y cercados cumpl?an la funci?n de lo que hoy llamamos c?rcel preventiva. Una c?rcel como las que funcionan en la actualidad no era necesaria, ya que los castigos eran tan severos y crueles que el infractor necesitaba una tumba, no una c?rcel, Se mencionar?n algunos de los castigos m?s usuales: - El robo, se castigaba con la esclavitud, hasta que se hiciera la restituci?n de lo robado, o una multa del Doble de la cantidad robada(una parte para la v?ctima y otra para el tesoro del clan). - El robo en camino real, pena de muerte, Las rater?as en el mercado, pena de muerte instant?nea por lapidaci?n - Robo del ma?z, cuando estaba creciendo en el campo, pena de muerte - o esclavitud - Hurto de oro, plata o jade, pena de muerte, - El asesinato, incluso de un esclavo, pena de muerte, - La intemperancia (vicio de que no sabe moderar sus apetitos), reprobaci?n social, descr?dito y hasta la muerte por lapidaci?n y a golpes, - La calumnia, corte de los labios y algunas veces, tambi?n de las orejas, - El incesto, muerte en la horca, - La sodom?a, muerte en la horca, - Homosexualidad, empalamiento para el sujeto activo; extracci?n de las entra?as, por el orificio anal, para el sujeto pasivo - Lesbianismo, muerte por garrote, La ley azteca era brutal, en su m?xima expresi?n, Desde la infancia el individuo deb?a observar una conducta social correcta, si violaba la ley sufr?a las consecuencias, Por el miedo a la severidad de las leyes nunca fue necesario recurrir al encarcelamiento, como medio para ejecutar el castigo de un crimen, Las jaulas y cercados se empleaban con el objeto de confinar a los prisioneros antes de juzgarlos o sacrificarlos, Actualmente se trata de rehabilitar a los presos, los Aztecas, por el contrario, manten?an a los delincuentes potenciales y a toda la comunidad, bajo el peso de un convenio t?cito de terror. Se podr?a decir que los Aztecas ?rehabilitaban a priori?, es decir, preven?an el crimen a trav?s del terror. ************************************************** From IXTLIL at aol.com Tue May 22 02:38:22 2001 From: IXTLIL at aol.com (IXTLIL at aol.com) Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 22:38:22 EDT Subject: "La Ley Azteca" - Re: homosexualidad y lesbianismo Message-ID: kohler's work, although highly accurate and commendable for its time, is decades out of date. Bernarda Reza Ramirez could use a more modern study. certainly, the rules and penalties reported are representative of what is found in the sources describing fifteenth and sixteen century central mexico. application of the rules is more difficult to ascertain in the various "Aztec" (and other central Mexican) groups, particularly with respect to prosecutorial zeal or disinterest, strict or lax application of rules to cases and general custom and practice in the societal groups in question. all these help to expand and modify the meaning of "rules." it is quite possible that these rules were absent in some locales and mere guidelines and advisories in other locales, although it is known that Texcocan jurisprudence (which is the origin of several of these rules) emphasized strict application of rules to cases. this was in response to a perceived need to control ethnically diverse groups living in close proximity in times of considerable social change. unfortunately most of the evidence of this diversity is irretrievably lost. (the term "aztec" captures about as much of the diversity that there was in Central Mexico as does the term "Chinese" for the many groups in "China"). the "aztecs' of tenochtitlan were only a small part of the story in central mexico. with the apparent decline of the single party state in mexico, we may see more scholarship devoted to the distribution of power over time among the various groups of pre-hispanic central mexico rather than to studies stressing centralization under the "aztecs" of tenochtitlan--who had come over time to be the de facto icon of the one party system. i would have hoped by now that scholarship would have advanced beyond this old routine--using rules and penalties out of context to create the familiar "Aztec Crime and Punishment Side (i.e. Freak) Show" and causing unnecessary concern instead of studying their interesting jurisprudential system in as full a cultural and historical context as we are fortunate enough to have. jerry offner -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From LaVoz at Aztlan.Net Tue May 22 15:12:23 2001 From: LaVoz at Aztlan.Net (La Voz de Aztlan) Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 08:12:23 -0700 Subject: "La Ley Azteca" - Re: homosexualidad y lesbianismo In-Reply-To: <54.14e35ec4.283b2b1e@aol.com> Message-ID: Thank you Sr. Jerry Offner: La Voz de Aztlan thanks you for your thoughtful commentary. We have been researching the subject for quite some time and have found little on the "legal system" of our ancient indigenous ancestors and specially concerning their judicial and cultural views on homosexuality and lesbianism. You commented that Bernarda Reza Ramirez should perhaps use "a more modern study". Do you or anyone else on the list know of any modern studies on the subject? Also, does anyone on the list know the Nahuatl terms for homosexual and lesbian? What Nahuatl terms were used by the Aztecs to denote the practices? Respectfully, Ernesto Cienfuegos Editor-in-Chief La Voz de Aztlan ----------------- Website: http://www.aztlan.net On Mon, 21 May 2001 22:38:22 EDT IXTLIL at aol.com wrote: > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > kohler's work, although highly accurate and commendable for its time, is > decades out of date. Bernarda Reza Ramirez could use a more modern study. > > certainly, the rules and penalties reported are representative of what is > found in the sources describing fifteenth and sixteen century central mexico. > application of the rules is more difficult to ascertain in the various > "Aztec" (and other central Mexican) groups, particularly with respect to > prosecutorial zeal or disinterest, strict or lax application of rules to > cases and general custom and practice in the societal groups in question. > all these help to expand and modify the meaning of "rules." it is quite > possible that these rules were absent in some locales and mere guidelines and > advisories in other locales, although it is known that Texcocan jurisprudence > (which is the origin of several of these rules) emphasized strict > application of rules to cases. this was in response to a perceived need to > control ethnically diverse groups living in close proximity in times of > considerable social change. unfortunately most of the evidence of this > diversity is irretrievably lost. (the term "aztec" captures about as much of > the diversity that there was in Central Mexico as does the term "Chinese" for > the many groups in "China"). > > the "aztecs' of tenochtitlan were only a small part of the story in central > mexico. with the apparent decline of the single party state in mexico, we may > see more scholarship devoted to the distribution of power over time among the > various groups of pre-hispanic central mexico rather than to studies > stressing centralization under the "aztecs" of tenochtitlan--who had come > over time to be the de facto icon of the one party system. > > i would have hoped by now that scholarship would have advanced beyond this > old routine--using rules and penalties out of context to create the familiar > "Aztec Crime and Punishment Side (i.e. Freak) Show" and causing unnecessary > concern instead of studying their interesting jurisprudential system in as > full a cultural and historical context as we are fortunate enough to have. > > jerry offner > > > From juergen.stowasser at univie.ac.at Tue May 22 17:00:45 2001 From: juergen.stowasser at univie.ac.at (Juergen Stowasser) Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 19:00:45 +0200 Subject: "La Ley Azteca" - Re: homosexualidad y lesbianismo Message-ID: Sahag?n lists various terms for homosexual/lesbian/transgender... La Voz de Aztlan schrieb: > Also, does anyone on the list know the Nahuatl > terms for homosexual and lesbian? What Nahuatl > terms were used by the Aztecs to denote the > practices? > -- Juergen Stowasser Burggasse 114/2/8 A-1070 Wien - Vien(n)a Austria tel: 01/ 524 54 60 v 0676/ 398 66 79 http://www.univie.ac.at/meso From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx Tue May 22 18:06:48 2001 From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright) Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 12:06:48 -0600 Subject: numbers of Nahuatl speakers? Message-ID: Estimados colegas y amigos de NAHUAT-L: El INEGI acaba de publicar los resultados definitivos del censo 2000, incluyendo los datos sobre la poblaci'on de 5 a'nos y m'as que habla alguna lengua ind'igena. Seg'un el resumen, la poblaci'on total del pa'is es de 97.48 millones; "Poco m'as de seis millones de personas de 5 a'nos y m'as en M'exico, hablan alguna lengua ind'igena; este monto significa 7% del total de poblaci'on en este grupo de edad, que es de 84.8 millones. Las lenguas ind'igenas m?s frecuentes en M?xico son la N'ahuatl con 24% de los hablantes, Maya con 13.2% y Mixteco 7.2 por ciento". Fuente: http://www.inegi.gob.mx/difusion/espanol/fpoblacion.html Ustedes pueden obtener tablas detalladas, con los resultados por estado, municipio, lengua etc'etera, en formato .pdf y excel, en la siguiente p'agina: http://www.inegi.gob.mx/difusion/espanol/poblacion/definitivos/nal/tabulados/indice.html Aparentemente la gente del INEGI cada vez es m'as r'apida y eficiente. Saludos, David Wright -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Amapohuani at aol.com Tue May 22 17:27:19 2001 From: Amapohuani at aol.com (Amapohuani at aol.com) Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 13:27:19 EDT Subject: "La Ley Azteca" - Re: homosexualidad y lesbianismo Message-ID: Also colonial Nahuatl church materials, espeically confessionals, contain terminology concerning gays and lesbians [of course, all very negative]. These may be especially useful because the questions contained in the confessional manuals were meant to be geared to the average Nahua. Molina would be a good place to start, then Bautista and others. From rude at stanford.edu Tue May 22 17:35:02 2001 From: rude at stanford.edu (Rudiger V. Busto) Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 10:35:02 -0700 Subject: homosexualidad y lesbianismo Message-ID: Ernesto, you must be careful about your use of the terms "homosexual" and "lesbian" -- these are modern day terms/labels that refer to identities created under specific historical and sociological conditions. These terms must also be distinct from same sex physical interactions, some of which are only considered "homosexual" in the North Atlantic world (for example, grown men holding hands in public). Thus it is problematic to "import" modern day identities back into history unless there is good evidence to do so. Be aware that some of what looks like "homosexuality" in the Spanish chronicles is filtered through the worldviews of Europeans and not necessarily reflective of indigenous worldview. In addition, one must take care to not assume that words like "sodomy" mean the same thing in the 16th Century as they do today. > > >Also, does anyone on the list know the Nahuatl >terms for homosexual and lesbian? What Nahuatl >terms were used by the Aztecs to denote the >practices? > >Respectfully, > >Ernesto Cienfuegos >Editor-in-Chief >La Voz de Aztlan -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Rudy V. Busto rude at stanford.edu Assistant Professor 650.723.0465 (office) Religious Studies 650.725.1476 (fax) Stanford University Stanford, CA 94305-2165 "...who knows what the ostrich sees in the sand ? " --- Samuel Beckett From mdmorris at indiana.edu Tue May 22 18:06:05 2001 From: mdmorris at indiana.edu (Mark David Morris) Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 13:06:05 -0500 Subject: "La Ley Azteca" - Re: homosexualidad y lesbianismo In-Reply-To: <3B0A81D72F8.F75CLAVOZ@smtp.earthlink.net> Message-ID: Aztlan etc. As in many cultures, homosexuality seems to have been marked in Mesoamerican (again, at least among Nahuas) as taking the role of a woman and cuilloni meaning "He who uses the anus" is the Nahuatl term for "passive" homosexual. Cuylon is the contemporary Central American term, used extensively at least in Nicaragua and Honduras (colchon tends to be used more in Honduras). Lancaster's book on Nicaragua's revolutionary culture _Life Is Hard_ includes a contemporary study of the cuylon in Nicaraguan society. best, Mark Morris ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ La muerte tiene permiso a todo MDM, PhD Candidate Dept. of History, Indiana Univ. From pthajovs at midway.uchicago.edu Tue May 22 18:08:32 2001 From: pthajovs at midway.uchicago.edu (patrick thomas hajovsky) Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 13:08:32 -0500 Subject: homosexualidad y lesbianismo In-Reply-To: <200105221749.f4MHndR10681@server2.umt.edu> Message-ID: On the note of sodomy, you should check out Mark Jordan, who writes about Peter Damian and authoritative texts in the Medieval Church. Also, were there transgendered (I use the term loosely) Aztecs that fulfilled a social role, as we find the North American Southwest? Patrick _______________________________ ixquich in pepetlaca xteocuitla On Tue, 22 May 2001, Rudiger V. Busto wrote: > > Ernesto, you must be careful about your use of the terms "homosexual" > and "lesbian" -- these are modern day terms/labels that refer to > identities created under specific historical and sociological > conditions. These terms must also be distinct from same sex physical > interactions, some of which are only considered "homosexual" in the > North Atlantic world (for example, grown men holding hands in public). > Thus it is problematic to "import" modern day identities back into > history unless there is good evidence to do so. Be aware that some > of what looks like "homosexuality" in the Spanish chronicles is > filtered through the worldviews of Europeans and not necessarily > reflective of indigenous worldview. In addition, one must take care > to not assume that words like "sodomy" mean the same thing in the > 16th Century as they do today. > > > > > > >Also, does anyone on the list know the Nahuatl > >terms for homosexual and lesbian? What Nahuatl > >terms were used by the Aztecs to denote the > >practices? > > > >Respectfully, > > > >Ernesto Cienfuegos > >Editor-in-Chief > >La Voz de Aztlan > -- > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Rudy V. Busto rude at stanford.edu > Assistant Professor 650.723.0465 (office) > Religious Studies 650.725.1476 (fax) > Stanford University > Stanford, CA 94305-2165 > "...who knows what the ostrich sees in the sand ? " > --- Samuel Beckett > > From mdmorris at indiana.edu Tue May 22 18:22:36 2001 From: mdmorris at indiana.edu (Mark David Morris) Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 13:22:36 -0500 Subject: Merit In-Reply-To: <200105221749.f4MHndR10681@server2.umt.edu> Message-ID: Following up on the idea of merit and in honor of the Virgin of Ocotlan who did us a very nice job yesterday with rains coming down in storybook fashion as the Virgin was being brought back into her sanctuary after a week and a half without rain, I've put below a letter from 1752 from Francisco Loysaga to Miguel Aparicio Hernandez that highlights ideas of merit that still prevail here in Tlaxcala--and that I think are firmly indigenous--and also gives some idea of the veneration of the Virgin during the 18th-century fervor for her cult. Following, is my Spanish translation that suffers from the 7bit-8bit issue. Any comments, corrections or questions about the translation would be welcome. My version with all the paarenthetical digressions on the 5-7 guesses (and/or) the file as attachment could be had by anyone who might want to examine my translation. best, Mark Morris Notlazo Mahuispili + Sr. Dn Migl Aparicio regr pasado onoconseli ynMotlac toca Mahuisotzi ycamiec pacpa quilistli yhu- Nicmotlatlautilia yn senquisca ylhuicac thothepan tlactoca siuapili Sa de Ocotlan ticmopanoltilis yni tlazo ylhu quixtililo catzin huey pascua yn Nescalilizin ynitlaso sente cone tzin yca miec chicahualistli tlacpa:dtilistli Neyolalistli tlacuapantilistli yNahuactzin co ynMoteoyotica Nesetilizin yhu- ycNochtintzitzin ynitla chihualtzitzihuan ynDivino simo Sr. Sacramentado Mah quimo [ne] quiltizino yn yehu [tzin] Mizmo maquilizino : mie Gracia yCa ticmocuica' yecten huilizinos yn pa:paquilis zope lica tlactolzintli; Alelulla; Ale lulla; Alelulla yhu- zatepan f1v. Miec tlacuapantilistli yteh ynmotlatquizin yCaticmothe quipanolhuilis yteh ynin tlac ticpaccayotl yca satepan tic mo Masehuitzinoti, yn ylhuicac tlactocayotl yn campa semicac yolis yn Motlazo Animatzin Axcan yehuatzinco onicatca ynahuac yntote-pixca tatzin yhu- ocsepa onoconma quili ynpascuas yca yn boregozi otocon motitlanili huel miecoqu itlasocamat; ynmoMasuisozin onoconseli ynNahui tominzi Ma yn tto Ds nopanpa quimoxtlahui lis o:mpa mizmotitlanilia yn nsoazin yn xinolazin chicuey tzopelic; sequi confites Nahui pantzi tzopelic; ticomo Masehu is amihuantzin ynsiuapili Sa Da thomasa; yhu- Nehuatl Nimizmotitlanilia yua Wa basa yCa mobolsa:zin, yntehtocon huicali nemis yCa tocontequis panzi: ynyolitzintli Maconhui ali cacan ypan tonali Miercoles ompa Nocontitlani yn palla yhu- ynchane tote yn fran (line illegibly faint) yhu- ynManteles amo Cahuican ypanpa yn yehtequi Mechilhuia yn Motitlanzi Neloquimo nahuatili yntoteopixcatzi Motlacuilhuilis Mostla--------- sa yxquichMa yn tto Ds Miz mochicahuilizino mie c xihuitl Nehuatl yhu- yn No soazi ti Mocahua yca timizmotequipanohuilis q- tlaxcala yhu- Abril 12 de 1752 q MMM Motetequipanocatzi franco antt loysaga Amado estimado noble Seor don Miguel Aparicio regidor pasado Recib tu noble honor con mucho alegra y ruego a nuestra perfecta celestial abogada la Seora de Ocotlan que t pasars la salida del celestial ser (de) la gran pascua; la aparicin del perfecto amado hijo y con mucho salud, convivencia, fraternidad y consuncin al lado de tu consagrada esposa y todos las creaciones del Divinismo Seor Sacramentado, que disponga l de dar ti mucha gracia con tus canciones de alabanzas, la alegre y dulce palabra; Aleluya; Aleluya; Aleluya y luego mucho convite de tu propiedad, el fruto de tu trabajo en este mundo, para que luego mereces el reino del cielo donde siempre vivir tu precioso alma Hoy mismo estuve con nuestro capelln y otra vez le di el borrego para pascuas que enviaste; mucho lo agradezca; recib tu honor, los cuatro tomines; que nuestro seor Dios lo pagar por mi causa. Mi esposa te mandar all ocho dulce xinolatzin; algunos confites, cuatro de los dulces; lo mereces, ustedes la seora doa Thomasa; y yo te mando esto (N-W)abasa con tu bolsa, en que tu andas trayendo en tu trabajo; que se lleva el yolitzintli en mircoles. Te mandar all la palia y no enva el frontal y los manteles de la casa porque ya trabaja (lo que) me deca en tu envo. Cierto que nuestro capelln escribir maana. Es todo. Que nuestro seor dios te guarde muchos aos. Yo y mi esposa se queda tus servidores. Tlaxcallan el 12 de abril de 1752, besa tu mano tu servidor, Francisco Antonio Loysaga ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ La muerte tiene permiso a todo MDM, PhD Candidate Dept. of History, Indiana Univ. From campbel at indiana.edu Tue May 22 20:27:32 2001 From: campbel at indiana.edu (r. joe campbell) Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 15:27:32 -0500 Subject: "La Ley Azteca" - Re: homosexualidad y lesbianismo In-Reply-To: <3B0A9B3D.DCA1C75B@univie.ac.at> Message-ID: I checked Molina's 1571 Nahuatl-Spanish dictionary and found the material below. Best regards, Joe "sinful, hard of heart, evil, debauched, bad reputation" follows ******** bai *** sexual intercourse ahuiani. puta, o mala muger. 71m2-9v1-2 ahuianiti (n). ser puta. 71m2-9v1-2 ahuiani calli. burdel, o puteria. 71m2-9v1-2 cihuanotzani (cenca-invert.2). desainado, porse dar mucho a mugeres. 71m2-17r1-3 centecpanhuia (nite). dar botin a muger s. echarse muchos con ella. 71m2-17v1-3 chahuacocoya. estar afligida la muger porque su marido esta amancebado, o por tener alguna grave enfermedad. 71m2-19r2-4 chauh (no). mi combleza. 71m2-19r2-4 cihuayo. persona que se sirue de mugeres. 71m2-22v1-4 cihuaihuinti. hombre dado a mugeres. 71m2-22v1-4 cihuatlahuelilocati (ni). darse mucho a mugeres. 71m2-22v2-4 cihuatlahuicale. persona que tiene seruicio de mugeres. 71m2-22v2-4 cochuia (nite). hazerlo ala muger que esta durmiendo. 71m2-23v1-4 coyoquetza (nite). tomarse como brutos animales. 71m2-24r1-4 cui (nic). tomar algo, o tener parte el hombre con la muger. 71m2-26v1-5 cuicui (nic). tener parte el hombre con la muger. 71m2-26v2-5 cuilonyotl. pecado nefando, de hombre con hombre. 71m2-26v2-5 cuilontia (nite). cometer pecado nefando. 71m2-26v2-5 icza (mo). tomarse las aues. 71m2-32r1-6 yecoa (nite). hazerlo ael, o aella. 71m2-34v2-6 yomoni. bullir los gusanos, o piojos, pulgas, hormigas, o cosas semejantes, o dar mucha comezon los granos o la sarna, o tener gran encendimiento dela carne los mozos omozas luxuriosas. 71m2-41r2-7 aci (itech n-invert.1). tener parte con alguna muger. 71m2-42r2-7 itetia (nite). empre?ar el varon ala muger. 71m2-42v2-7 itlacoa (nin). enfermar por se dar mucho a mugeres. 71m2-43r1-7 itlan nicochi. dormir con muger. 71m2-43r2-8 yoli. cosa biua, o alterarse el miembro. 71m2-44r2-8 yolitia (nic). alterar el miembro. 71m2-44r2-8 maahuiltia. ramera. 71m2-50r1-9 maahuiltiani. puta honesta. 71m2-50r1-9 mahahuiltia. puta honesta. 71m2-51r2-9 maxaloa (nic). hazer traycion el casado a su muger, teniendo parte con otra, o ella a el cometiendo adulterio. 71m2-54v2-9 mecatia (nino). amancebarse. o proueerse de cordeles. 71m2-55r1-9 mictia (nitla). ser impotente para engendrar, o sacrificar ante los idolos matando algo. 71m2-56r2-10 [i]cza (mo-invert.1). tomarse las aues. 71m2-57v1-10 cihuahuiqui (mo). desainado por se auer dado mucho a mugeres. 71m2-57v2-10 mecati (mo). amancebado. 71m2-58v2-10 mecatiani (mo). amancebado. 71m2-58v2-10 cuauhquetza (mo-invert.1). alterarse o alzarse el miembro. 71m2-059v2-10 quetza (mo). tomarse las animalias. 71m2-059v2-10 quequeza (mo). tomarse las aues. 71m2-059v2-10 quetzallani (mo-invert.1). estar cachonda la perra. &c. 71m2-060r1-10 quetztlani (mo-invert.1). estar cochonda la perra. &c. 71m2-060r1-10 tetlaneuhtiani (mo). puta del burdel. 71m2-060r2-10 tetlanehuiani (mo). puta?ero. 71m2-060r2-10 tetzincohuiani (mo). puta?ero. 71m2-060r2-10 tzinnamacani (mo). puta del burdel. 71m2-061r1-10 cihuahuiliztli (ne-invert.2). enfermedad causada por se auer dado mucho a mugeres. 71m2-65r1-11 mecatiliztica (ne-invert.2). con amancebamiento. 71m2-67r2-11 mecatiliztli (ne-invert.2). amancebamiento. 71m2-67r2-11 nepanoliztli (ne-invert.2). copula, o ayuntamiento carnal. 71m2-68r1-12 nepanoa (nite). tener parte con muger, o meterse entre otros. 71m2-68v2-12 patlachhuiliztli (ne-invert.2). el acto de hazerlo la vna ala otra, pecando contra natura. 71m2-69r1-12 tlaneuhtilizcalli (ne-invert.2). burdel o casa de malas mugeres. 71m2-70v1-12 tlaneuhtiloyan (ne-invert.2). burdel o casa de malas mugeres. 71m2-70v1-12 tzincohuiloyan (ne-invert.2). burdel. 71m2-71r1-12 tzinnamacoyan (ne-invert.2). burdel. 71m2-71r1-12 noquicho. mi simiente. 71m2-73v2-13 occhalchihuitl. es aun donzella y virgen. metaphora. 71m2-75r1-13 ocmacitinemi. donzella virgen y entera. 71m2-75r2-13 ocmotquitinemi. virgen entera. 71m2-75v1-13 huel ichpochtli (oc -invert.2). virgen que esta aun entera. 71m2-75v2-13 otlamicti. hombre impotente para engendrar. 71m2-78r1-13 patlachhuia (nite). hazerlo vna muger a otra. 71m2-80r2-14 cuauhtilia (nitla). arrechar o alterar el miembro. 71m2-87r1-15 cuauhtlaza (nite). echarse muchos convna muger o dar botin. 71m2-87r1-15 quequeza (mo). tomarse las aues para engendrar. 71m2-89r1-15 quetza (nite). detener, o hazer parar alque camina o hazer leuantar alque esta asentado, o hazerlo el perro ala perra, o el cauallo ala yegua. 71m2-89r2-15 cochhuia (nite-invert.1). tener parte conla muger que esta durmiendo. 71m2-92v2-16 cuilonti (te-invert.2). el que lo haze a otro, pecando contra natura. 71m2-93v1-16 cuilontiani (te-invert.2). el que lo haze a otro, pecando contra natura. 71m2-93v1-16 cuilontiliztli (te-invert.2). el acto del que comete este pecado. 71m2-93v1-16 teichtacamecauh. manceba de soltero. 71m2-94r2-16 ixelehuiani (te-invert.2). cobdiciador de mugeres, o cobdiciadora de varones. 71m2-95v2-16 ixelehuiliztica (te-invert.2). cobdiciando mugeres. &c. 71m2-95v2-16 ixelehuiliztli (te-invert.2). cobdicia tal. 71m2-95v2-16 temecauh. manceba de soltero. 71m2-98r1-16 yani (tepan -invert.2). adultero. 71m2-102r1-17 yaqui (tepan -invert.2). adultero. 71m2-102r1-17 yauh (tepan ni-invert.1). cometer adulterio. 71m2-102r1-17 teca (nite-invert.1). echarse con alguna muger. 71m2-105v2-18 tecaliztli (te-invert.2). el acto de echarse y tener parte con muger. 71m2-106r1-18 tecani (te-invert.2). el que se echa con muger. 71m2-106r1-18 axiliztli (tetech-invert.2). el acto de tener parte, o ayuntamiento con muger. 71m2-106r1-18 aci (tetech n-invert.1). tener conuersacion y parte con muger. 71m2-106r1-18 tlamia (tetech nino-invert.1). infamar a alguna persona diziendo que tuuo parte conella, no siendo verdad. 71m2-106r2-18 acqui (tetlan-invert.2). trama de tela, o el que quiere adulterar. 71m2-108v2-18 nahualnochili (tetla-invert.2). alcahuete, o alcahueta. 71m2-108v2-18 nahualnochiliani (tetla-invert.2). alcahuete, o alcahueta. 71m2-108v2-18 nahualnochililiztli (tetla-invert.2). alcahueteria. 71m2-108v2-18 nahualnochiliqui (tetla-invert.2). alcahuete, o alcahueta. 71m2-108v2-18 nanahuatiliqui (tetla-invert.2). alcahuete, o alcahueta. 71m2-108v2-18 nahuatili (tetla-invert.2). alcahuete, o alcahueta. 71m2-108v2-18 nahuatililiztli (tetla-invert.2). alcahueteria. 71m2-108v2-18 aqui (tetlan n-invert.1). echarse, o tener parte conla que esta durmiendo. 71m2-108v2-18 nochili (tetla-invert.2). alcahuete, o alcahueta. 71m2-109r1-18 nochiliani (tetla-invert.2). alcahuete, o alcahueta. 71m2-109r1-18 nochililiztli (tetla-invert.2). alcahueteria. 71m2-109r1-18 nochiliqui (tetla-invert.2). alcahuete. 71m2-109r1-18 ximaliztica (tetla-invert.2). adulterando, o cometiendo adulterio. 71m2-110r2-19 ximaliztli (tetla-invert.2). adulterio. 71m2-110r2-19 ximani (tetla-invert.2). adultero. 71m2-110r2-19 xinqui (tetla-invert.2). adultero. 71m2-110r2-19 tetzacayotl. esterilidad delos que son esteriles y no engendran hijos. 71m2-110v2-19 tetzacati (ni). hazerse esteril. 71m2-110v2-19 tetzacatilia (nite). hazer esteril a alguna. 71m2-110v2-19 tetzacatl. esteril, que no tiene hijos. 71m2-110v2-19 tetzicayotl. esterilidad delos que no engendran. 71m2-111r2-19 tetzicati. hazerse esteril assi. 71m2-111r2-19 tetzicatl. esteril, que no engendra hijos. 71m2-111r2-19 tzintzayanaliztli (te-invert.2). corrompimiento de virgen. s. el acto de corromperla, lastimandola mucho. 71m2-111v1-19 tzintzayanani (te-invert.2). corrompedor tal. 71m2-111v1-19 xapotlaliztli (te-invert.2). corrompimiento, o desfloracion de virgen. 71m2-112r2-19 xapotlani (te-invert.2). corrompedor de virgen. 71m2-112r2-19 tilinia (nite). asir de alguna para tener parte conella. 71m2-113r2-19 tixpampa quiza. simiente de muger. &c. 71m2-113v2-19 tixpampa huetzi. simiente de muger. &c. 71m2-113v2-19 tlacaxinachtli. simiente devaron o de muger. 71m2-116r1-20 ihiani (tla-invert.2). asqueroso y aborrecedor dela comida, o dela muger. &c. 71m2-121v1-21 mictiliztli (tla-invert.2). impotencia del varon, que no puede tener parte con muger. 71m2-126v2-22 tlaneuhtia (nino). puta?ear la muger. 71m2-128v1-22 tlacuauhtilia (ni). arrechar o leuantar el miembro. 71m2-133v2-23 tlacuauhtiliani. el que assi leuanta el miembro. 71m2-133v2-23 tlacuauhtilliliztli [sic]. el acto de arrechar. 71m2-133v2-23 quequezaliztli (tla-invert.2). el acto de pisar o recalcar algo, o el acto de tomar el gallo ala gallina. 71m2-134r1-23 quequezani (tla-invert.2). recalcador, pisador, o pateador, o gallo que toma ala gallina. 71m2-134r1-23 tlaxintli (tla-invert.2). cornudo. s. al que han hecho adulterio. 71m2-140r1-24 tlatoca. el que anda sembrando o siembra semillas, o el que va al burdel, o el que continua la casa de su manceba o amiga. 71m2-140v1-24 xapotlalli (tla-invert.2). cosa agujerada, o horadada, o virgen corrompida. 71m2-145v1-25 xima (nitetla-invert.1). adulterar. 71m2-146r1-25 xochihuilli (tla-invert.2). muger encantada y lleuada por ay adelante. 71m2-146v1-25 tocihuayo. simiente de muger. 71m2-148v1-25 totomicqui. varon impotente para engendrar. 71m2-150v2-26 totomiquiliztli. impotencia de varon para engendrar. 71m2-150v2-26 tzimmicqui. varon impotente para engendrar. 71m2-152r2-26 tzincohuia (ninote). puta?ear el varon pagando ala dama. 71m2-152r2-26 tzinnamaca (nino). venderla muger su cuerpo. 71m2-152v1-26 tzinnamaca (nite). alcahuetear. 71m2-152v1-26 tzinquetza (nite). tener parte y tomarse el varon y la muger, amanera de brutos. 71m2-152v1-26 tzinquetza (nino). ponerse la muger amanera de perra o de otro animal, paraque el varon tenga parte con ella. 71m2-152v1-26 huel ichpochotl. virginidad entera. 71m2-156r1-26 xapotla (nite). desflorar o corromper virgen. 71m2-158v1-27 xinachoa (nino). asementarse. 71m2-159r2-27 ************ cccb *** sinful, hard of heart, evil, debauched, bad reputation achihualiztli. cosa ilicita que no se deue hazer. 71m2-2r2-1 achihualoni. cosa ilicita que no se deue hazer. 71m2-2r2-1 ahahuilnemi (n). rufianear. o luxuriar. 71m2-3r1-1 ahahuilnemiliztli. rufianeria o luxuria. 71m2-3r1-1 ayeccan. en mal tiempo o sazon, o lugar malo. aduerbio. 71m2-3v1-1 ayecyotl. maldad o malicia. 71m2-3v1-1 ayectiliztli. maldad o malicia. 71m2-3v1-1 ayectlachihua (n). hazer cosa mala. 71m2-3v1-1 ayectli. cosa mala. 71m2-3v1-1 apinahualiztica. desuergonzadamente. 71m2-7r1-1 apinahualiztli. desuerguenza. 71m2-7r1-1 apinahuani. desuergonzado. 71m2-7r1-1 apinahuani cihuatl. muger desonesta. 71m2-7r1-1 acualcan. lugar indecente y malo. 71m2-7r1-2 acuallachihua (n). hazer alguna cosa mala. 71m2-7r1-2 acuallachihualiztica. con malas obras. 71m2-7r1-2 acuallachihualiztli. obras malas. 71m2-7r1-2 acuallachihualli. obras mal hechas. 71m2-7r1-2 acuallachihuani. mal hechor. 71m2-7r1-2 acuallatolli. palabras malas. 71m2-7r1-2 acualli. cosa mala. 71m2-7r1-2 chicahualiztli (acualli ipan ne-invert.2). obstinacion o perseuerancia enel mal. 71m2-7r1-2 acuallotl. maldad o malicia. 71m2-7r2-2 acualtiliztli. maldad o malicia. 71m2-7r2-2 acualtin. malos. 71m2-7r2-2 aquetzca cihuatl. muger desonesta y sin verguenza. 71m2-7r2-2 aquixtilpilli. incorregible. 71m2-7v1-2 atlacanemi. hombre desconcertado dissoluto y vicioso. 71m2-8r1-2 atlacanemiliztli. dissolucion tal. 71m2-8r1-2 atlacatl. marinero, o mal hombre. 71m2-8r1-2 atlacualitolli. persona de ruyn fama. 71m2-8r2-2 ahuilihui (n). apocarse con los vicios. 71m2-9v2-2 ahuililama. vieja. luxuriosa y mala muger. 71m2-9v2-2 ahuilhuehue. viejo luxurioso rufian. 71m2-9v2-2 ahuilnemiliztli. vida carnal o luxuriosa. 71m2-9v2-2 ahuilnenqui. persona carnal y luxuriosa. 71m2-9v2-2 ahuiltelpocati (n). rufianear o luxuriar. 71m2-9v2-2 ahuiltelpochti (n). rufianear o luxuriar. 71m2-9v2-2 ahuiltelpochtontli. mozo rufianejo. 71m2-9v2-2 iuh nenti inchichixtiuh noyollo (zan -invert.2). hazerse poco apoco, o sin aduertir de mala condicion, y de amargo corazon. 71m2-14v1-3 cecemotli. persona de mala fama. metaphora. 71m2-15r2-3 cecentianquiztli. el que en todas partes tiene ruyn fama. 71m2-15v1-3 cenquizca tlahueliloc. hombre peruerso ymaluado. 71m2-17v1-3 centzonteti (ni). endurecerse o obstinarse. 71m2-18r2-3 chauhnecocoya (ni). estar endemoniado. 71m2-19r2-4 chicoyauh (ni). apartarse dela virtud. 71m2-20r2-4 chicoyolloani. hombre sospechoso y malicioso. 71m2-20r2-4 chicoquiza (ni). apartarse dela virtud. 71m2-20v1-4 cihuacuecuech. muger deshonesta y desuergonzada. 71m2-22v1-4 cihuatlahueliloc. hombre dado a mugeres, o mala muger. 71m2-22v2-4 cuecuetz. trauiesso y desuergonzado. 71m2-25v2-5 yeyeloac (ica-invert.2). hombre de mala fama. 71m2-31v2-6 nemi (in ica -invert.2). sensual y vicioso. 71m2-38v2-7 yollocuepa (nite). peruertir a otro. 71m2-40r2-7 yollo malacachilhuia (nicte). peruertir algo aotro. 71m2-40r2-7 yollotepitztlacuactia (ni). endurecerse y obstinarse. 71m2-40v1-7 yollotepitztlacuactiliztli. endurecimiento assi. 71m2-40v2-7 yollotepoztia (ni). endurecerse y obstinarse. 71m2-40v2-7 yollotequizaliztli. dureza y obstinacion assi. 71m2-40v2-7 yolloteti (ni). endurecerse perseuerando enel mal. 71m2-40v2-7 yollotetia (ni). endurecerse perseuerando enel mal. 71m2-40v2-7 yollotetilia (nite). endurecer y obstinar a otro assi. 71m2-40v2-7 yollotetiliztica. obstinadamente, o animosa y esforzadamente. 71m2-40v2-7 yollotetiliztli. endurecimiento y obstinacion, o animosidad y esfuerzo. 71m2-40v2-7 yollotetl. constante y animoso, o duro y obstinado. 71m2-40v2-7 yollotlacuactia (ni). endurecerse y obstinarse enel mal. 71m2-40v2-7 yollotlacuactiliztli. dureza assi. 71m2-40v2-7 yollotlacuahua (ni). endurecerse desta manera. 71m2-40v2-7 yollotlacuahua (nite). endurecer a otro. 71m2-40v2-7 yollotlacuahuac. endurecido desta manera. 71m2-40v2-7 yollotlacuahualiztica. obstinadamenteassi. 71m2-40v2-7 yollotlacuahualiztli. endurecimiento tal. 71m2-40v2-7 tequiz iyollo (iuhquin o-invert.2). endurecido de corazon. 71m2-43v2-8 tetl iyollo (iuhquin-invert.2). duro de corazon. 71m2-43v2-8 cuepa iyollo (iuhquin tetl mo-invert.1). obstinarse y endurecerse. 71m2-43v2-8 ixmaxalihui (n). dexar la buena costumbre. 71m2-46r1-8 macicahuia innitlatlacoani (nic). ser consumado en maldad. 71m2-50v2-9 maxiltia (nic). estar lleno de suziedad, o de maldad. 71m2-54v2-9 yollotetiliztli (ne-invert.2). endurecimiento de corazon, o proteruia. 71m2-66r2-11 nemilizitlacahuiliztli. corrupcion de costumbres. 71m2-67r2-12 catcapol (nican ni-invert.2). aqui estoy yo pecador o miserable. 71m2-71v2-12 catpolotica (nican ni-invert.2). aqui estoy yo pecador o miserable. 71m2-71v2-12 macicahuia nitlatlacoani (nic-invert.1). ser fino oconsumado pecador. 71m2-71v2-12 tlachixtinemi (nohuiampa-invert.2). muger desonesta que no guarda la vista. 71m2-74r2-13 ocholo iyollo. disoluta muger. 71m2-75r2-13 onicmac cahui innitlatlacoani. ser consumado y gran pecador. 71m2-77r2-13 pilchihua (nitla). pecar o hazer algun defecto. 71m2-81v1-14 cuachicuia (nitla). ser disoluto y desuergonzado. 71m2-84r1-14 quixcahuia inacayo. persona viciosa y carnal. 71m2-90v1-15 centlahueliltiliztli (te-invert.2). manera de biuir, o vida mala y pessima delos pecadores. 71m2-92r2-16 ichtacatlaxtlahuiani (te-invert.2). cohechador de juez. 71m2-94r2-16 ichtacatlaxtlahuiliztli (te-invert.2). cohecho. 71m2-94r2-16 yolcuepaliztica (te-invert.2). peruertidamente, o peruertiendo a otros, y trastornandoles el juyzio. 71m2-94v2-16 yolcuepaliztli (te-invert.2). peruertimiento assi. 71m2-94v2-16 yollotlahuelilocatililiztli (te-invert.2). inficionamiento del que inficiona y peruierte a otro. 71m2-95r2-16 yolmalacacho (te-invert.2). cosa que peruierte y desatina a otro. 71m2-95r2-16 yolmalacachoani (te-invert.2). cosa que peruierte y desatina a otro. 71m2-95r2-16 yolmalacacholiztica (te-invert.2). peruertiendo y desatinan do a otros. 71m2-95r2-16 yolmalacacholiztli (te-invert.2). peruertimiento tal. 71m2-95r2-16 telpochtlahueliloc. rufian, o mozo carnal. 71m2-96v1-16 telpochtlahuelilocati (ni). rufianear, o biuir carnalmente. 71m2-96v1-16 tencuauhxolotl. hombre de mala lengua. 71m2-99v1-17 tencuahuitl. hombre de mala lengua. 71m2-99v1-17 tlahuelilocacuitiani (te-invert.2). el que inficiona y haze malo a otro. 71m2-110r1-19 tlahuelilocacuitiliztli (te-invert.2). el acto de inficionar y da?ar a otros, o de hazerlos malos y peruersos. 71m2-110r1-19 tlahuelilocamaquiliztli (te-invert.2). el acto de inficionar y da?ar a otros, o de hazerlos malos y peruersos o peruertimiento. 71m2-110r1-19 tlahuelilocamatilizotl (te-invert.2). infamia, o mala opinion que se tiene de alguno. 71m2-110r1-19 tlahuelilocatiliztli (te-invert.2). . 71m2-110-4-01-19 tlahuelilocatocani (te-invert.2). el que tiene mala opinion de otros. 71m2-110r2-19 tetzauhtlatlacoani. criminosa persona. 71m2-111r2-19 tetzauhtlatlacole. criminosa persona. 71m2-111r2-19 tetzauhtlatlacolli. pecado, o maldad grande y abominable. 71m2-111r2-19 tetzauhtlatlacoltica. criminalmente. 71m2-111r2-19 teuhtli tlazolli ic milacatzotinemi. el que biue mal y viciosamente. 71m2-111v2-19 teuhtli tlazolli nicololotinemi. biuir viciosamente. 71m2-111v2-19 tlacaahuilhuia (nite). peruertir y malear a otro. 71m2-114v2-19 tlacamiccatilia (nite). peruertir o malear a otro. 71m2-115v1-20 zolteocihuatl (tla-invert.2). muger diabolica y peruersa. 71m2-118v2-20 tlaellatolli. palabras desonestas y suzias. 71m2-120r2-20 tlaellaquetza (ni). dezir chistes, o consejuelas desonestas y muchas. 71m2-120r2-20 tlaelpaqui (ni). deleytarse con suzio deleyte. 71m2-120v1-21 tlaelpaquiliztica. con suzio o carnal deleyte. 71m2-120v1-21 tlaelpaquiliztli. suzio o carnal deleite. 71m2-120v1-21 tlaelpaquini. carnal persona. s. luxuriosa. 71m2-120v1-21 tlailpaqui (ni). . 71m2-121v2-21 tlailpaquiliztli. . 71m2-121v2-21 yollomachtli (tla-invert.2). persona notada de alguna falta, o vicio. 71m2-122r1-21 yollotlahuelilocatililli (tla-invert.2). maleado, o enloquecido de otros, por ledar priesa para tornarle loco. 71m2-122r1-21 yolmalacacholli (tla-invert.2). maleado, o enloquecido de otros, por ledar priesa para tornarle loco. 71m2-122r1-21 tlaneuhtia (nino). puta?ear la muger. 71m2-128v1-22 tlanehuia (ninote). puta?ear el varon. 71m2-128v2-22 pilchihualiztli (tla-invert.2). defecto, cosa malhecha, o pecado. s. el acto de pecar. 71m2-132r1-22 pilchihualli (tla-invert.2). pecado, o defecto. 71m2-132r1-22 pilchihuani (tla-invert.2). defectuoso, o pecador. 71m2-132r1-22 pilchiuhqui (tla-invert.2). defectuoso, o pecador. 71m2-132r1-22 pilchiuhtli (tla-invert.2). cosa malhecha, o culpa cometida. 71m2-132r1-22 tlatlacamiccati (ni). obstinarse y perseuerar enel mal, o tornarse loco y desatinado. 71m2-136v2-23 [i]tlacoa (nitla-invert.1). pecar, hazer mal, o da?ar yechar aperder alguna cosa. 71m2-137r1-23 [i]tlacoani (tla-invert.2). pecador tal. 71m2-137r1-23 [i]tlacoaniyetoca (ninotla-invert.1). tenerse por pecador. 71m2-137r1-23 [i]tlacoanime (tla-invert.2). pecadores. 71m2-137r1-23 [i]tlacoanitoca (nitetla-invert.1). tener alos otros por pecadores. 71m2-137r1-23 tlacolcecualoliztli (tla-invert.2). elada, o frialdad de pecados. 71m2-137r2-23 tlacolcehuapahualiztli (tla-invert.2). elada, o frialdad de pecados. 71m2-137r2-23 tlacolcocoliztli (tla-invert.2). enfermedad y pestilencia de pecados. 71m2-137r2-23 tlacolcuitia (nitetla-invert.1). hazer pecar a otro. 71m2-137r2-23 [i]tlacolitztiliztli (tla-invert.2). frialdad de pecados. 71m2-137r2-23 [i]tlacollaza (ninotla-invert.1). descargarse delos pecados enla confession sacramental. 71m2-137r2-23 [i]tlacolli (tla-invert.2). pecado, culpa, o defecto. 71m2-137r2-23 [i]tlacolli ipololoca (tla-invert.2). perdon, o remission de pecados. 71m2-137r2-23 tlacolmachilia (nitetla-invert.1). saber los pecados agenos. 71m2-137r2-23 tlacolnextia (nitetla-invert.1). descubrir, o manifestar pecados agenos. 71m2-137r2-23 tlacolnexxotla (nitetla-invert.1). descubrir, o manifestar pecados agenos. 71m2-137r2-23 tlacolohuitilia (nitetla-invert.1). poner a otro en peligro, o dificultad, con algun pecado que le hizo cometer. 71m2-137r2-23 tlacolpan (tla-invert.2). en pecado, o en pecados. 71m2-137r2-23 tlacolpan ni-nemi (tla-invert.1). biuir en pecado. 71m2-137r2-23 tlacolpan nite-tlaza (tla-invert.1). hazer caer a otro en pecado. 71m2-137r2-23 tlacolpantlaza (nitetla-invert.1). descubrir pecados agenos o hazer que alguno cayga en ellos. 71m2-137r2-23 tlacolpehualiztli (tla-invert.2). pecado original. 71m2-137r2-23 tlacolpeuhcayotl (tla-invert.2). pecado original. 71m2-137r2-23 tlacolpolihuiliztli (tla-invert.2). remission o perdon de pecados. 71m2-137r2-23 tlacolpopolhuia (nitetla-invert.1). perdonar, o absoluer delos pecados. 71m2-137r2-23 tlacoltitlan (tla-invert.2). entre los pecados. 71m2-137v1-23 tlacoltoma (ninotla-invert.1). desatarse o librarse delos pecados por la contricion, o confession sacramental. 71m2-137v1-23 tlacoltzintiliztli (tla-invert.2). pecado original, o comienzo de pecados. 71m2-137v1-23 tlayellatoa (nitla-invert.1). hablar cosas desonestas y suzias. 71m2-137v1-23 tlatlacoltomaliztli (tla-invert.2). absolucion, o desatamiento de pecados. 71m2-139r2-24 tlatlacoltomalli (tla-invert.2). absuelto y desatado depecados. 71m2-139r2-24 tlatlahuelilocati. el que se haze vellaco. 71m2-140r1-24 tlatlahuelilocatini. el que se haze vellaco. 71m2-140r1-24 tlatlahuelilocatilia. el que haze vellacos alos otros. 71m2-140r1-24 tlatlahuelilocatiliani. el que haze vellacos alos otros. 71m2-140r1-24 tlahueliloc. maluado, o vellaco. 71m2-144r2-25 tlahuelilocaaquilia (nite huel nitla). meter mal entre otros, reboluiendolos, o peruertiendolos. 71m2-144r2-25 tlahuelilocacuitia (nitla). . 71m2-144r2-25 tlahuelilocacuitia (nite). . 71m2-144r2-25 tlahuelilocacuitia (nino). peruertirse y hazerse malo. 71m2-144r2-25 tlahuelilo cacuitilli. peruertido y maleado de otros. 71m2-144r2-25 tlahuelilocayotica. peruersa y maliciosamente. 71m2-144r2-25 tlahuelilocayotl. maldad, o vellaqueria. 71m2-144r2-25 tlahuelilocaitoa (nite). hablar, o dezir defectos, o maldades agenas. 71m2-144r2-25 tlahuelilocamaca (nite). malear, o peruertir a otro. 71m2-144r2-25 tlahuelilocamaca (nino). malearse, o hazerse vellaco. 71m2-144r2-25 tlahuelilocamactli. maleado y peruertido de otros. 71m2-144r2-25 tlahuelilocamati (nite). tener a otro por ruin y vellaco. 71m2-144r2-25 tlahuelilocanemi (ni). andar hecho vellaco y perdido. 71m2-144r2-25 tlahuelilocanemiliztli. vida vellaca y peruersa. 71m2-144r2-25 tlahuelilocapo (no). vellaco como yo, o tan peruerso y malo como yo. 71m2-144r2-25 tlahuelilocati (ni). hazerse malo y vellaco. 71m2-144r2-25 tlahuelilocayotl. maldad, vellaqueria o malicia. 71m2-144r2-25 tlahuelilocatilia (nino). hazerse malo y vellaco. 71m2-144r2-25 tlahuelilocatilia (nite). hazer vellaco a otro, operuertillo. 71m2-144r2-25 tlahuelilocatilia (nitla). peruertir y malear a los otros. 71m2-144r2-25 tlahuelilocatililli. maleado y peruertido de otros. 71m2-144v1-25 tlahuelilocatlapiquia (nite). leuantar a otro que es malo y vellaco. 71m2-144v1-25 tlahuelilocatlatoa (ni). hablar mal, o dezir malicias, o hablar como vellaco y maluado. 71m2-144v1-25 tlahuelilocatoca (nite). tener a otro por ruyn y vellaco. 71m2-144v1-25 tlahuelilocattitinemi (ni). andar perdido y hecho vellaco. 71m2-144v1-25 From LaVoz at Aztlan.Net Tue May 22 20:55:31 2001 From: LaVoz at Aztlan.Net (La Voz de Aztlan) Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 13:55:31 -0700 Subject: "La Ley Azteca" - Re: homosexualidad y lesbianismo In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Nahuat-l list members: "La Ley Azteca" mandated the following punishment for homosexuality and lesbianism: - Homosexualidad, empalamiento para el sujeto activo; extracci?n de las entra?as, por el orificio anal, para el sujeto pasivo - Lesbianismo, muerte por garrote, Does anyone know if similar or less Draconian measures were employed by North American Indigenous groups before the arrival of Europeans? Respectfully, La Voz de Aztlan http://www.aztlan.net From IXTLIL at aol.com Wed May 23 02:01:22 2001 From: IXTLIL at aol.com (IXTLIL at aol.com) Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 22:01:22 EDT Subject: "La Ley Azteca" - Re: homosexualidad y lesbianismo Message-ID: "Do you or anyone else on the list know of any modern studies on the subject?" the easiest way to begin to look into this field ("Aztec" law in general) is through this link at the Tarlton Law Library at the University of Texas. Not all the books listed on this page are of equal value. http://www.law.utexas.edu/rare/aztec.htm jerry offner -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From micc at home.com Wed May 23 03:42:29 2001 From: micc at home.com (micc) Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 20:42:29 -0700 Subject: "La Ley Azteca" - Re: homosexualidad y lesbianismo Message-ID: Just a note: The requester of this "info" is a member of a homophobic, racist organization: http://www.aztlan.net/leyazteca.htm http://www.aztlan.net/drinko.htm "r. joe campbell" wrote: > I checked Molina's 1571 Nahuatl-Spanish dictionary and found the > material below. > > Best regards, > > Joe > > "sinful, hard of heart, evil, debauched, bad reputation" follows ******** > > bai *** sexual intercourse > > ahuiani. puta, o mala muger. 71m2-9v1-2 > ahuianiti (n). ser puta. 71m2-9v1-2 > ahuiani calli. burdel, o puteria. 71m2-9v1-2 > cihuanotzani (cenca-invert.2). desainado, porse dar mucho a mugeres. > 71m2-17r1-3 > centecpanhuia (nite). dar botin a muger s. echarse muchos con ella. > 71m2-17v1-3 > chahuacocoya. estar afligida la muger porque su marido esta amancebado, o > por tener alguna grave enfermedad. 71m2-19r2-4 > chauh (no). mi combleza. 71m2-19r2-4 > cihuayo. persona que se sirue de mugeres. 71m2-22v1-4 > cihuaihuinti. hombre dado a mugeres. 71m2-22v1-4 > cihuatlahuelilocati (ni). darse mucho a mugeres. 71m2-22v2-4 > cihuatlahuicale. persona que tiene seruicio de mugeres. 71m2-22v2-4 > cochuia (nite). hazerlo ala muger que esta durmiendo. 71m2-23v1-4 > coyoquetza (nite). tomarse como brutos animales. 71m2-24r1-4 > cui (nic). tomar algo, o tener parte el hombre con la muger. 71m2-26v1-5 > cuicui (nic). tener parte el hombre con la muger. 71m2-26v2-5 > cuilonyotl. pecado nefando, de hombre con hombre. 71m2-26v2-5 > cuilontia (nite). cometer pecado nefando. 71m2-26v2-5 > icza (mo). tomarse las aues. 71m2-32r1-6 > yecoa (nite). hazerlo ael, o aella. 71m2-34v2-6 > yomoni. bullir los gusanos, o piojos, pulgas, hormigas, o cosas > semejantes, o dar mucha comezon los granos o la sarna, o tener gran > encendimiento dela carne los mozos omozas luxuriosas. 71m2-41r2-7 > aci (itech n-invert.1). tener parte con alguna muger. 71m2-42r2-7 > itetia (nite). empre?ar el varon ala muger. 71m2-42v2-7 > itlacoa (nin). enfermar por se dar mucho a mugeres. 71m2-43r1-7 > itlan nicochi. dormir con muger. 71m2-43r2-8 > yoli. cosa biua, o alterarse el miembro. 71m2-44r2-8 > yolitia (nic). alterar el miembro. 71m2-44r2-8 > maahuiltia. ramera. 71m2-50r1-9 > maahuiltiani. puta honesta. 71m2-50r1-9 > mahahuiltia. puta honesta. 71m2-51r2-9 > maxaloa (nic). hazer traycion el casado a su muger, teniendo parte con > otra, o ella a el cometiendo adulterio. 71m2-54v2-9 > mecatia (nino). amancebarse. o proueerse de cordeles. 71m2-55r1-9 > mictia (nitla). ser impotente para engendrar, o sacrificar ante los idolos > matando algo. 71m2-56r2-10 > [i]cza (mo-invert.1). tomarse las aues. 71m2-57v1-10 > cihuahuiqui (mo). desainado por se auer dado mucho a mugeres. > 71m2-57v2-10 > mecati (mo). amancebado. 71m2-58v2-10 > mecatiani (mo). amancebado. 71m2-58v2-10 > cuauhquetza (mo-invert.1). alterarse o alzarse el miembro. 71m2-059v2-10 > quetza (mo). tomarse las animalias. 71m2-059v2-10 > quequeza (mo). tomarse las aues. 71m2-059v2-10 > quetzallani (mo-invert.1). estar cachonda la perra. &c. 71m2-060r1-10 > quetztlani (mo-invert.1). estar cochonda la perra. &c. 71m2-060r1-10 > tetlaneuhtiani (mo). puta del burdel. 71m2-060r2-10 > tetlanehuiani (mo). puta?ero. 71m2-060r2-10 > tetzincohuiani (mo). puta?ero. 71m2-060r2-10 > tzinnamacani (mo). puta del burdel. 71m2-061r1-10 > cihuahuiliztli (ne-invert.2). enfermedad causada por se auer dado mucho a > mugeres. 71m2-65r1-11 > mecatiliztica (ne-invert.2). con amancebamiento. 71m2-67r2-11 > mecatiliztli (ne-invert.2). amancebamiento. 71m2-67r2-11 > nepanoliztli (ne-invert.2). copula, o ayuntamiento carnal. 71m2-68r1-12 > nepanoa (nite). tener parte con muger, o meterse entre otros. > 71m2-68v2-12 > patlachhuiliztli (ne-invert.2). el acto de hazerlo la vna ala otra, > pecando contra natura. 71m2-69r1-12 > tlaneuhtilizcalli (ne-invert.2). burdel o casa de malas mugeres. > 71m2-70v1-12 > tlaneuhtiloyan (ne-invert.2). burdel o casa de malas mugeres. > 71m2-70v1-12 > tzincohuiloyan (ne-invert.2). burdel. 71m2-71r1-12 > tzinnamacoyan (ne-invert.2). burdel. 71m2-71r1-12 > noquicho. mi simiente. 71m2-73v2-13 > occhalchihuitl. es aun donzella y virgen. metaphora. 71m2-75r1-13 > ocmacitinemi. donzella virgen y entera. 71m2-75r2-13 > ocmotquitinemi. virgen entera. 71m2-75v1-13 > huel ichpochtli (oc -invert.2). virgen que esta aun entera. 71m2-75v2-13 > otlamicti. hombre impotente para engendrar. 71m2-78r1-13 > patlachhuia (nite). hazerlo vna muger a otra. 71m2-80r2-14 > cuauhtilia (nitla). arrechar o alterar el miembro. 71m2-87r1-15 > cuauhtlaza (nite). echarse muchos convna muger o dar botin. 71m2-87r1-15 > quequeza (mo). tomarse las aues para engendrar. 71m2-89r1-15 > quetza (nite). detener, o hazer parar alque camina o hazer leuantar alque > esta asentado, o hazerlo el perro ala perra, o el cauallo ala yegua. > 71m2-89r2-15 > cochhuia (nite-invert.1). tener parte conla muger que esta durmiendo. > 71m2-92v2-16 > cuilonti (te-invert.2). el que lo haze a otro, pecando contra natura. > 71m2-93v1-16 > cuilontiani (te-invert.2). el que lo haze a otro, pecando contra natura. > 71m2-93v1-16 > cuilontiliztli (te-invert.2). el acto del que comete este pecado. > 71m2-93v1-16 > teichtacamecauh. manceba de soltero. 71m2-94r2-16 > ixelehuiani (te-invert.2). cobdiciador de mugeres, o cobdiciadora de > varones. 71m2-95v2-16 > ixelehuiliztica (te-invert.2). cobdiciando mugeres. &c. 71m2-95v2-16 > ixelehuiliztli (te-invert.2). cobdicia tal. 71m2-95v2-16 > temecauh. manceba de soltero. 71m2-98r1-16 > yani (tepan -invert.2). adultero. 71m2-102r1-17 > yaqui (tepan -invert.2). adultero. 71m2-102r1-17 > yauh (tepan ni-invert.1). cometer adulterio. 71m2-102r1-17 > teca (nite-invert.1). echarse con alguna muger. 71m2-105v2-18 > tecaliztli (te-invert.2). el acto de echarse y tener parte con muger. > 71m2-106r1-18 > tecani (te-invert.2). el que se echa con muger. 71m2-106r1-18 > axiliztli (tetech-invert.2). el acto de tener parte, o ayuntamiento con > muger. 71m2-106r1-18 > aci (tetech n-invert.1). tener conuersacion y parte con muger. > 71m2-106r1-18 > tlamia (tetech nino-invert.1). infamar a alguna persona diziendo que tuuo > parte conella, no siendo verdad. 71m2-106r2-18 > acqui (tetlan-invert.2). trama de tela, o el que quiere adulterar. > 71m2-108v2-18 > nahualnochili (tetla-invert.2). alcahuete, o alcahueta. 71m2-108v2-18 > nahualnochiliani (tetla-invert.2). alcahuete, o alcahueta. 71m2-108v2-18 > nahualnochililiztli (tetla-invert.2). alcahueteria. 71m2-108v2-18 > nahualnochiliqui (tetla-invert.2). alcahuete, o alcahueta. 71m2-108v2-18 > nanahuatiliqui (tetla-invert.2). alcahuete, o alcahueta. 71m2-108v2-18 > nahuatili (tetla-invert.2). alcahuete, o alcahueta. 71m2-108v2-18 > nahuatililiztli (tetla-invert.2). alcahueteria. 71m2-108v2-18 > aqui (tetlan n-invert.1). echarse, o tener parte conla que esta durmiendo. > 71m2-108v2-18 > nochili (tetla-invert.2). alcahuete, o alcahueta. 71m2-109r1-18 > nochiliani (tetla-invert.2). alcahuete, o alcahueta. 71m2-109r1-18 > nochililiztli (tetla-invert.2). alcahueteria. 71m2-109r1-18 > nochiliqui (tetla-invert.2). alcahuete. 71m2-109r1-18 > ximaliztica (tetla-invert.2). adulterando, o cometiendo adulterio. > 71m2-110r2-19 > ximaliztli (tetla-invert.2). adulterio. 71m2-110r2-19 > ximani (tetla-invert.2). adultero. 71m2-110r2-19 > xinqui (tetla-invert.2). adultero. 71m2-110r2-19 > tetzacayotl. esterilidad delos que son esteriles y no engendran hijos. > 71m2-110v2-19 > tetzacati (ni). hazerse esteril. 71m2-110v2-19 > tetzacatilia (nite). hazer esteril a alguna. 71m2-110v2-19 > tetzacatl. esteril, que no tiene hijos. 71m2-110v2-19 > tetzicayotl. esterilidad delos que no engendran. 71m2-111r2-19 > tetzicati. hazerse esteril assi. 71m2-111r2-19 > tetzicatl. esteril, que no engendra hijos. 71m2-111r2-19 > tzintzayanaliztli (te-invert.2). corrompimiento de virgen. s. el acto de > corromperla, lastimandola mucho. 71m2-111v1-19 > tzintzayanani (te-invert.2). corrompedor tal. 71m2-111v1-19 > xapotlaliztli (te-invert.2). corrompimiento, o desfloracion de virgen. > 71m2-112r2-19 > xapotlani (te-invert.2). corrompedor de virgen. 71m2-112r2-19 > tilinia (nite). asir de alguna para tener parte conella. 71m2-113r2-19 > tixpampa quiza. simiente de muger. &c. 71m2-113v2-19 > tixpampa huetzi. simiente de muger. &c. 71m2-113v2-19 > tlacaxinachtli. simiente devaron o de muger. 71m2-116r1-20 > ihiani (tla-invert.2). asqueroso y aborrecedor dela comida, o dela muger. > &c. 71m2-121v1-21 > mictiliztli (tla-invert.2). impotencia del varon, que no puede tener parte > con muger. 71m2-126v2-22 > tlaneuhtia (nino). puta?ear la muger. 71m2-128v1-22 > tlacuauhtilia (ni). arrechar o leuantar el miembro. 71m2-133v2-23 > tlacuauhtiliani. el que assi leuanta el miembro. 71m2-133v2-23 > tlacuauhtilliliztli [sic]. el acto de arrechar. 71m2-133v2-23 > quequezaliztli (tla-invert.2). el acto de pisar o recalcar algo, o el acto > de tomar el gallo ala gallina. 71m2-134r1-23 > quequezani (tla-invert.2). recalcador, pisador, o pateador, o gallo que > toma ala gallina. 71m2-134r1-23 > tlaxintli (tla-invert.2). cornudo. s. al que han hecho adulterio. > 71m2-140r1-24 > tlatoca. el que anda sembrando o siembra semillas, o el que va al burdel, > o el que continua la casa de su manceba o amiga. 71m2-140v1-24 > xapotlalli (tla-invert.2). cosa agujerada, o horadada, o virgen > corrompida. 71m2-145v1-25 > xima (nitetla-invert.1). adulterar. 71m2-146r1-25 > xochihuilli (tla-invert.2). muger encantada y lleuada por ay adelante. > 71m2-146v1-25 > tocihuayo. simiente de muger. 71m2-148v1-25 > totomicqui. varon impotente para engendrar. 71m2-150v2-26 > totomiquiliztli. impotencia de varon para engendrar. 71m2-150v2-26 > tzimmicqui. varon impotente para engendrar. 71m2-152r2-26 > tzincohuia (ninote). puta?ear el varon pagando ala dama. 71m2-152r2-26 > tzinnamaca (nino). venderla muger su cuerpo. 71m2-152v1-26 > tzinnamaca (nite). alcahuetear. 71m2-152v1-26 > tzinquetza (nite). tener parte y tomarse el varon y la muger, amanera de > brutos. 71m2-152v1-26 > tzinquetza (nino). ponerse la muger amanera de perra o de otro animal, > paraque el varon tenga parte con ella. 71m2-152v1-26 > huel ichpochotl. virginidad entera. 71m2-156r1-26 > xapotla (nite). desflorar o corromper virgen. 71m2-158v1-27 > xinachoa (nino). asementarse. 71m2-159r2-27 > > ************ > > > > cccb *** sinful, hard of heart, evil, debauched, bad reputation > > achihualiztli. cosa ilicita que no se deue hazer. 71m2-2r2-1 > achihualoni. cosa ilicita que no se deue hazer. 71m2-2r2-1 > ahahuilnemi (n). rufianear. o luxuriar. 71m2-3r1-1 > ahahuilnemiliztli. rufianeria o luxuria. 71m2-3r1-1 > ayeccan. en mal tiempo o sazon, o lugar malo. aduerbio. 71m2-3v1-1 > ayecyotl. maldad o malicia. 71m2-3v1-1 > ayectiliztli. maldad o malicia. 71m2-3v1-1 > ayectlachihua (n). hazer cosa mala. 71m2-3v1-1 > ayectli. cosa mala. 71m2-3v1-1 > apinahualiztica. desuergonzadamente. 71m2-7r1-1 > apinahualiztli. desuerguenza. 71m2-7r1-1 > apinahuani. desuergonzado. 71m2-7r1-1 > apinahuani cihuatl. muger desonesta. 71m2-7r1-1 > acualcan. lugar indecente y malo. 71m2-7r1-2 > acuallachihua (n). hazer alguna cosa mala. 71m2-7r1-2 > acuallachihualiztica. con malas obras. 71m2-7r1-2 > acuallachihualiztli. obras malas. 71m2-7r1-2 > acuallachihualli. obras mal hechas. 71m2-7r1-2 > acuallachihuani. mal hechor. 71m2-7r1-2 > acuallatolli. palabras malas. 71m2-7r1-2 > acualli. cosa mala. 71m2-7r1-2 > chicahualiztli (acualli ipan ne-invert.2). obstinacion o perseuerancia > enel mal. 71m2-7r1-2 > acuallotl. maldad o malicia. 71m2-7r2-2 > acualtiliztli. maldad o malicia. 71m2-7r2-2 > acualtin. malos. 71m2-7r2-2 > aquetzca cihuatl. muger desonesta y sin verguenza. 71m2-7r2-2 > aquixtilpilli. incorregible. 71m2-7v1-2 > atlacanemi. hombre desconcertado dissoluto y vicioso. 71m2-8r1-2 > atlacanemiliztli. dissolucion tal. 71m2-8r1-2 > atlacatl. marinero, o mal hombre. 71m2-8r1-2 > atlacualitolli. persona de ruyn fama. 71m2-8r2-2 > ahuilihui (n). apocarse con los vicios. 71m2-9v2-2 > ahuililama. vieja. luxuriosa y mala muger. 71m2-9v2-2 > ahuilhuehue. viejo luxurioso rufian. 71m2-9v2-2 > ahuilnemiliztli. vida carnal o luxuriosa. 71m2-9v2-2 > ahuilnenqui. persona carnal y luxuriosa. 71m2-9v2-2 > ahuiltelpocati (n). rufianear o luxuriar. 71m2-9v2-2 > ahuiltelpochti (n). rufianear o luxuriar. 71m2-9v2-2 > ahuiltelpochtontli. mozo rufianejo. 71m2-9v2-2 > iuh nenti inchichixtiuh noyollo (zan -invert.2). hazerse poco apoco, o sin > aduertir de mala condicion, y de amargo corazon. 71m2-14v1-3 > cecemotli. persona de mala fama. metaphora. 71m2-15r2-3 > cecentianquiztli. el que en todas partes tiene ruyn fama. 71m2-15v1-3 > cenquizca tlahueliloc. hombre peruerso ymaluado. 71m2-17v1-3 > centzonteti (ni). endurecerse o obstinarse. 71m2-18r2-3 > chauhnecocoya (ni). estar endemoniado. 71m2-19r2-4 > chicoyauh (ni). apartarse dela virtud. 71m2-20r2-4 > chicoyolloani. hombre sospechoso y malicioso. 71m2-20r2-4 > chicoquiza (ni). apartarse dela virtud. 71m2-20v1-4 > cihuacuecuech. muger deshonesta y desuergonzada. 71m2-22v1-4 > cihuatlahueliloc. hombre dado a mugeres, o mala muger. 71m2-22v2-4 > cuecuetz. trauiesso y desuergonzado. 71m2-25v2-5 > yeyeloac (ica-invert.2). hombre de mala fama. 71m2-31v2-6 > nemi (in ica -invert.2). sensual y vicioso. 71m2-38v2-7 > yollocuepa (nite). peruertir a otro. 71m2-40r2-7 > yollo malacachilhuia (nicte). peruertir algo aotro. 71m2-40r2-7 > yollotepitztlacuactia (ni). endurecerse y obstinarse. 71m2-40v1-7 > yollotepitztlacuactiliztli. endurecimiento assi. 71m2-40v2-7 > yollotepoztia (ni). endurecerse y obstinarse. 71m2-40v2-7 > yollotequizaliztli. dureza y obstinacion assi. 71m2-40v2-7 > yolloteti (ni). endurecerse perseuerando enel mal. 71m2-40v2-7 > yollotetia (ni). endurecerse perseuerando enel mal. 71m2-40v2-7 > yollotetilia (nite). endurecer y obstinar a otro assi. 71m2-40v2-7 > yollotetiliztica. obstinadamente, o animosa y esforzadamente. > 71m2-40v2-7 > yollotetiliztli. endurecimiento y obstinacion, o animosidad y esfuerzo. > 71m2-40v2-7 > yollotetl. constante y animoso, o duro y obstinado. 71m2-40v2-7 > yollotlacuactia (ni). endurecerse y obstinarse enel mal. 71m2-40v2-7 > yollotlacuactiliztli. dureza assi. 71m2-40v2-7 > yollotlacuahua (ni). endurecerse desta manera. 71m2-40v2-7 > yollotlacuahua (nite). endurecer a otro. 71m2-40v2-7 > yollotlacuahuac. endurecido desta manera. 71m2-40v2-7 > yollotlacuahualiztica. obstinadamenteassi. 71m2-40v2-7 > yollotlacuahualiztli. endurecimiento tal. 71m2-40v2-7 > tequiz iyollo (iuhquin o-invert.2). endurecido de corazon. 71m2-43v2-8 > tetl iyollo (iuhquin-invert.2). duro de corazon. 71m2-43v2-8 > cuepa iyollo (iuhquin tetl mo-invert.1). obstinarse y endurecerse. > 71m2-43v2-8 > ixmaxalihui (n). dexar la buena costumbre. 71m2-46r1-8 > macicahuia innitlatlacoani (nic). ser consumado en maldad. 71m2-50v2-9 > maxiltia (nic). estar lleno de suziedad, o de maldad. 71m2-54v2-9 > yollotetiliztli (ne-invert.2). endurecimiento de corazon, o proteruia. > 71m2-66r2-11 > nemilizitlacahuiliztli. corrupcion de costumbres. 71m2-67r2-12 > catcapol (nican ni-invert.2). aqui estoy yo pecador o miserable. > 71m2-71v2-12 > catpolotica (nican ni-invert.2). aqui estoy yo pecador o miserable. > 71m2-71v2-12 > macicahuia nitlatlacoani (nic-invert.1). ser fino oconsumado pecador. > 71m2-71v2-12 > tlachixtinemi (nohuiampa-invert.2). muger desonesta que no guarda la > vista. 71m2-74r2-13 > ocholo iyollo. disoluta muger. 71m2-75r2-13 > onicmac cahui innitlatlacoani. ser consumado y gran pecador. > 71m2-77r2-13 > pilchihua (nitla). pecar o hazer algun defecto. 71m2-81v1-14 > cuachicuia (nitla). ser disoluto y desuergonzado. 71m2-84r1-14 > quixcahuia inacayo. persona viciosa y carnal. 71m2-90v1-15 > centlahueliltiliztli (te-invert.2). manera de biuir, o vida mala y pessima > delos pecadores. 71m2-92r2-16 > ichtacatlaxtlahuiani (te-invert.2). cohechador de juez. 71m2-94r2-16 > ichtacatlaxtlahuiliztli (te-invert.2). cohecho. 71m2-94r2-16 > yolcuepaliztica (te-invert.2). peruertidamente, o peruertiendo a otros, y > trastornandoles el juyzio. 71m2-94v2-16 > yolcuepaliztli (te-invert.2). peruertimiento assi. 71m2-94v2-16 > yollotlahuelilocatililiztli (te-invert.2). inficionamiento del que > inficiona y peruierte a otro. 71m2-95r2-16 > yolmalacacho (te-invert.2). cosa que peruierte y desatina a otro. > 71m2-95r2-16 > yolmalacachoani (te-invert.2). cosa que peruierte y desatina a otro. > 71m2-95r2-16 > yolmalacacholiztica (te-invert.2). peruertiendo y desatinan do a otros. > 71m2-95r2-16 > yolmalacacholiztli (te-invert.2). peruertimiento tal. 71m2-95r2-16 > telpochtlahueliloc. rufian, o mozo carnal. 71m2-96v1-16 > telpochtlahuelilocati (ni). rufianear, o biuir carnalmente. 71m2-96v1-16 > tencuauhxolotl. hombre de mala lengua. 71m2-99v1-17 > tencuahuitl. hombre de mala lengua. 71m2-99v1-17 > tlahuelilocacuitiani (te-invert.2). el que inficiona y haze malo a otro. > 71m2-110r1-19 > tlahuelilocacuitiliztli (te-invert.2). el acto de inficionar y da?ar a > otros, o de hazerlos malos y peruersos. 71m2-110r1-19 > tlahuelilocamaquiliztli (te-invert.2). el acto de inficionar y da?ar a > otros, o de hazerlos malos y peruersos o peruertimiento. 71m2-110r1-19 > tlahuelilocamatilizotl (te-invert.2). infamia, o mala opinion que se tiene > de alguno. 71m2-110r1-19 > tlahuelilocatiliztli (te-invert.2). tetlahuelilocacuitiliztli>. 71m2-110-4-01-19 > tlahuelilocatocani (te-invert.2). el que tiene mala opinion de otros. > 71m2-110r2-19 > tetzauhtlatlacoani. criminosa persona. 71m2-111r2-19 > tetzauhtlatlacole. criminosa persona. 71m2-111r2-19 > tetzauhtlatlacolli. pecado, o maldad grande y abominable. 71m2-111r2-19 > tetzauhtlatlacoltica. criminalmente. 71m2-111r2-19 > teuhtli tlazolli ic milacatzotinemi. el que biue mal y viciosamente. > 71m2-111v2-19 > teuhtli tlazolli nicololotinemi. biuir viciosamente. 71m2-111v2-19 > tlacaahuilhuia (nite). peruertir y malear a otro. 71m2-114v2-19 > tlacamiccatilia (nite). peruertir o malear a otro. 71m2-115v1-20 > zolteocihuatl (tla-invert.2). muger diabolica y peruersa. 71m2-118v2-20 > tlaellatolli. palabras desonestas y suzias. 71m2-120r2-20 > tlaellaquetza (ni). dezir chistes, o consejuelas desonestas y muchas. > 71m2-120r2-20 > tlaelpaqui (ni). deleytarse con suzio deleyte. 71m2-120v1-21 > tlaelpaquiliztica. con suzio o carnal deleyte. 71m2-120v1-21 > tlaelpaquiliztli. suzio o carnal deleite. 71m2-120v1-21 > tlaelpaquini. carnal persona. s. luxuriosa. 71m2-120v1-21 > tlailpaqui (ni). . 71m2-121v2-21 > tlailpaquiliztli. . 71m2-121v2-21 > yollomachtli (tla-invert.2). persona notada de alguna falta, o vicio. > 71m2-122r1-21 > yollotlahuelilocatililli (tla-invert.2). maleado, o enloquecido de otros, > por ledar priesa para tornarle loco. 71m2-122r1-21 > yolmalacacholli (tla-invert.2). maleado, o enloquecido de otros, por ledar > priesa para tornarle loco. 71m2-122r1-21 > tlaneuhtia (nino). puta?ear la muger. 71m2-128v1-22 > tlanehuia (ninote). puta?ear el varon. 71m2-128v2-22 > pilchihualiztli (tla-invert.2). defecto, cosa malhecha, o pecado. s. el > acto de pecar. 71m2-132r1-22 > pilchihualli (tla-invert.2). pecado, o defecto. 71m2-132r1-22 > pilchihuani (tla-invert.2). defectuoso, o pecador. 71m2-132r1-22 > pilchiuhqui (tla-invert.2). defectuoso, o pecador. 71m2-132r1-22 > pilchiuhtli (tla-invert.2). cosa malhecha, o culpa cometida. > 71m2-132r1-22 > tlatlacamiccati (ni). obstinarse y perseuerar enel mal, o tornarse loco y > desatinado. 71m2-136v2-23 > [i]tlacoa (nitla-invert.1). pecar, hazer mal, o da?ar yechar aperder > alguna cosa. 71m2-137r1-23 > [i]tlacoani (tla-invert.2). pecador tal. 71m2-137r1-23 > [i]tlacoaniyetoca (ninotla-invert.1). tenerse por pecador. 71m2-137r1-23 > [i]tlacoanime (tla-invert.2). pecadores. 71m2-137r1-23 > [i]tlacoanitoca (nitetla-invert.1). tener alos otros por pecadores. > 71m2-137r1-23 > tlacolcecualoliztli (tla-invert.2). elada, o frialdad de pecados. > 71m2-137r2-23 > tlacolcehuapahualiztli (tla-invert.2). elada, o frialdad de pecados. > 71m2-137r2-23 > tlacolcocoliztli (tla-invert.2). enfermedad y pestilencia de pecados. > 71m2-137r2-23 > tlacolcuitia (nitetla-invert.1). hazer pecar a otro. 71m2-137r2-23 > [i]tlacolitztiliztli (tla-invert.2). frialdad de pecados. 71m2-137r2-23 > [i]tlacollaza (ninotla-invert.1). descargarse delos pecados enla > confession sacramental. 71m2-137r2-23 > [i]tlacolli (tla-invert.2). pecado, culpa, o defecto. 71m2-137r2-23 > [i]tlacolli ipololoca (tla-invert.2). perdon, o remission de pecados. > 71m2-137r2-23 > tlacolmachilia (nitetla-invert.1). saber los pecados agenos. > 71m2-137r2-23 > tlacolnextia (nitetla-invert.1). descubrir, o manifestar pecados agenos. > 71m2-137r2-23 > tlacolnexxotla (nitetla-invert.1). descubrir, o manifestar pecados agenos. > 71m2-137r2-23 > tlacolohuitilia (nitetla-invert.1). poner a otro en peligro, o dificultad, > con algun pecado que le hizo cometer. 71m2-137r2-23 > tlacolpan (tla-invert.2). en pecado, o en pecados. 71m2-137r2-23 > tlacolpan ni-nemi (tla-invert.1). biuir en pecado. 71m2-137r2-23 > tlacolpan nite-tlaza (tla-invert.1). hazer caer a otro en pecado. > 71m2-137r2-23 > tlacolpantlaza (nitetla-invert.1). descubrir pecados agenos o hazer que > alguno cayga en ellos. 71m2-137r2-23 > tlacolpehualiztli (tla-invert.2). pecado original. 71m2-137r2-23 > tlacolpeuhcayotl (tla-invert.2). pecado original. 71m2-137r2-23 > tlacolpolihuiliztli (tla-invert.2). remission o perdon de pecados. > 71m2-137r2-23 > tlacolpopolhuia (nitetla-invert.1). perdonar, o absoluer delos pecados. > 71m2-137r2-23 > tlacoltitlan (tla-invert.2). entre los pecados. 71m2-137v1-23 > tlacoltoma (ninotla-invert.1). desatarse o librarse delos pecados por la > contricion, o confession sacramental. 71m2-137v1-23 > tlacoltzintiliztli (tla-invert.2). pecado original, o comienzo de pecados. > 71m2-137v1-23 > tlayellatoa (nitla-invert.1). hablar cosas desonestas y suzias. > 71m2-137v1-23 > tlatlacoltomaliztli (tla-invert.2). absolucion, o desatamiento de pecados. > 71m2-139r2-24 > tlatlacoltomalli (tla-invert.2). absuelto y desatado depecados. > 71m2-139r2-24 > tlatlahuelilocati. el que se haze vellaco. 71m2-140r1-24 > tlatlahuelilocatini. el que se haze vellaco. 71m2-140r1-24 > tlatlahuelilocatilia. el que haze vellacos alos otros. 71m2-140r1-24 > tlatlahuelilocatiliani. el que haze vellacos alos otros. 71m2-140r1-24 > tlahueliloc. maluado, o vellaco. 71m2-144r2-25 > tlahuelilocaaquilia (nite huel nitla). meter mal entre otros, > reboluiendolos, o peruertiendolos. 71m2-144r2-25 > tlahuelilocacuitia (nitla). . > 71m2-144r2-25 > tlahuelilocacuitia (nite). . > 71m2-144r2-25 > tlahuelilocacuitia (nino). peruertirse y hazerse malo. 71m2-144r2-25 > tlahuelilo cacuitilli. peruertido y maleado de otros. 71m2-144r2-25 > tlahuelilocayotica. peruersa y maliciosamente. 71m2-144r2-25 > tlahuelilocayotl. maldad, o vellaqueria. 71m2-144r2-25 > tlahuelilocaitoa (nite). hablar, o dezir defectos, o maldades agenas. > 71m2-144r2-25 > tlahuelilocamaca (nite). malear, o peruertir a otro. 71m2-144r2-25 > tlahuelilocamaca (nino). malearse, o hazerse vellaco. 71m2-144r2-25 > tlahuelilocamactli. maleado y peruertido de otros. 71m2-144r2-25 > tlahuelilocamati (nite). tener a otro por ruin y vellaco. 71m2-144r2-25 > tlahuelilocanemi (ni). andar hecho vellaco y perdido. 71m2-144r2-25 > tlahuelilocanemiliztli. vida vellaca y peruersa. 71m2-144r2-25 > tlahuelilocapo (no). vellaco como yo, o tan peruerso y malo como yo. > 71m2-144r2-25 > tlahuelilocati (ni). hazerse malo y vellaco. 71m2-144r2-25 > tlahuelilocayotl. maldad, vellaqueria o malicia. 71m2-144r2-25 > tlahuelilocatilia (nino). hazerse malo y vellaco. 71m2-144r2-25 > tlahuelilocatilia (nite). hazer vellaco a otro, operuertillo. > 71m2-144r2-25 > tlahuelilocatilia (nitla). peruertir y malear a los otros. 71m2-144r2-25 > tlahuelilocatililli. maleado y peruertido de otros. 71m2-144v1-25 > tlahuelilocatlapiquia (nite). leuantar a otro que es malo y vellaco. > 71m2-144v1-25 > tlahuelilocatlatoa (ni). hablar mal, o dezir malicias, o hablar como > vellaco y maluado. 71m2-144v1-25 > tlahuelilocatoca (nite). tener a otro por ruyn y vellaco. 71m2-144v1-25 > tlahuelilocattitinemi (ni). andar perdido y hecho vellaco. 71m2-144v1-25 From LaVoz at Aztlan.Net Wed May 23 05:55:46 2001 From: LaVoz at Aztlan.Net (La Voz de Aztlan) Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 22:55:46 -0700 Subject: "La Ley Azteca" - Re: homosexualidad y lesbianismo In-Reply-To: <3B0B31A5.887714E7@visto.com> Message-ID: Dear Nahuat-l List Members: We were offended by an individual on this list who identified him or herself as micc . Name calling and labeling of users of the list is unprofessional. We have been subscribers for a long time but have never posted. We have been contented in just reading the comments and learning a little Nahuatl along the way. La Voz de Aztlan is a bilingual news service and our subscribers are mostly Mexicans in the southwest U.S. and in Mexico. This person has insulted us. We are not insulting anyone here. This type of abuse should not be permitted in an academic oriented discussion group such as this one. We hope that the majority of the group does not support this person and allow us equal access to the discussion here on the Aztec Culture and language. Our purpose for asking about the legal concepts of our ancient Aztecs ancestors concerning homosexuality and lesbianism is not because we are "homophobic", like micc at home.com alleges, but because a controversy has arisen in our community concerning the true views of the Aztecs concerning the sexual lifestyles. There are groups of Chicanos in the U.S. that are disseminating false information on how our indigenous ancestors viewed homosexuals and lesbians in indigenous societies. This group of Chicano academicians who belong to the Joto and Lesbian Caucuses of the National Association of Chicano and Chicana Studies (NACCS) are saying that our ancient indigenous cultures viewed the lifestyles favorably which contradicts the study of Bernada Reza Ramirez of the Universidad Abierta de Mexico. We thought it was appropriate to ask for commentary from the learned persons on the list who specialize in Aztec culture and language and since other subtopics such as cannibalism among the Aztecs were also being discussed. We do not mean to offend anyone, specially any gay members of the list. Our intention is to seek true and verifiable information. Ernesto Cienfuegos Editor-in-Chief La Voz de Aztlan On Tue, 22 May 2001 20:42:29 -0700 micc wrote: > Just a note: > > The requester of this "info" is a member of a homophobic, racist organization: > > http://www.aztlan.net/leyazteca.htm > http://www.aztlan.net/drinko.htm > > > > "r. joe campbell" wrote: > > > I checked Molina's 1571 Nahuatl-Spanish dictionary and found the > > material below. > > > > Best regards, > > > > Joe > > > > "sinful, hard of heart, evil, debauched, bad reputation" follows ******** > > > > bai *** sexual intercourse > > > > ahuiani. puta, o mala muger. 71m2-9v1-2 > > ahuianiti (n). ser puta. 71m2-9v1-2 > > ahuiani calli. burdel, o puteria. 71m2-9v1-2 > > cihuanotzani (cenca-invert.2). desainado, porse dar mucho a mugeres. > > 71m2-17r1-3 > > centecpanhuia (nite). dar botin a muger s. echarse muchos con ella. > > 71m2-17v1-3 > > chahuacocoya. estar afligida la muger porque su marido esta amancebado, o > > por tener alguna grave enfermedad. 71m2-19r2-4 > > chauh (no). mi combleza. 71m2-19r2-4 > > cihuayo. persona que se sirue de mugeres. 71m2-22v1-4 > > cihuaihuinti. hombre dado a mugeres. 71m2-22v1-4 > > cihuatlahuelilocati (ni). darse mucho a mugeres. 71m2-22v2-4 > > cihuatlahuicale. persona que tiene seruicio de mugeres. 71m2-22v2-4 > > cochuia (nite). hazerlo ala muger que esta durmiendo. 71m2-23v1-4 > > coyoquetza (nite). tomarse como brutos animales. 71m2-24r1-4 > > cui (nic). tomar algo, o tener parte el hombre con la muger. 71m2-26v1-5 > > cuicui (nic). tener parte el hombre con la muger. 71m2-26v2-5 > > cuilonyotl. pecado nefando, de hombre con hombre. 71m2-26v2-5 > > cuilontia (nite). cometer pecado nefando. 71m2-26v2-5 > > icza (mo). tomarse las aues. 71m2-32r1-6 > > yecoa (nite). hazerlo ael, o aella. 71m2-34v2-6 > > yomoni. bullir los gusanos, o piojos, pulgas, hormigas, o cosas > > semejantes, o dar mucha comezon los granos o la sarna, o tener gran > > encendimiento dela carne los mozos omozas luxuriosas. 71m2-41r2-7 > > aci (itech n-invert.1). tener parte con alguna muger. 71m2-42r2-7 > > itetia (nite). empre?ar el varon ala muger. 71m2-42v2-7 > > itlacoa (nin). enfermar por se dar mucho a mugeres. 71m2-43r1-7 > > itlan nicochi. dormir con muger. 71m2-43r2-8 > > yoli. cosa biua, o alterarse el miembro. 71m2-44r2-8 > > yolitia (nic). alterar el miembro. 71m2-44r2-8 > > maahuiltia. ramera. 71m2-50r1-9 > > maahuiltiani. puta honesta. 71m2-50r1-9 > > mahahuiltia. puta honesta. 71m2-51r2-9 > > maxaloa (nic). hazer traycion el casado a su muger, teniendo parte con > > otra, o ella a el cometiendo adulterio. 71m2-54v2-9 > > mecatia (nino). amancebarse. o proueerse de cordeles. 71m2-55r1-9 > > mictia (nitla). ser impotente para engendrar, o sacrificar ante los idolos > > matando algo. 71m2-56r2-10 > > [i]cza (mo-invert.1). tomarse las aues. 71m2-57v1-10 > > cihuahuiqui (mo). desainado por se auer dado mucho a mugeres. > > 71m2-57v2-10 > > mecati (mo). amancebado. 71m2-58v2-10 > > mecatiani (mo). amancebado. 71m2-58v2-10 > > cuauhquetza (mo-invert.1). alterarse o alzarse el miembro. 71m2-059v2-10 > > quetza (mo). tomarse las animalias. 71m2-059v2-10 > > quequeza (mo). tomarse las aues. 71m2-059v2-10 > > quetzallani (mo-invert.1). estar cachonda la perra. &c. 71m2-060r1-10 > > quetztlani (mo-invert.1). estar cochonda la perra. &c. 71m2-060r1-10 > > tetlaneuhtiani (mo). puta del burdel. 71m2-060r2-10 > > tetlanehuiani (mo). puta?ero. 71m2-060r2-10 > > tetzincohuiani (mo). puta?ero. 71m2-060r2-10 > > tzinnamacani (mo). puta del burdel. 71m2-061r1-10 > > cihuahuiliztli (ne-invert.2). enfermedad causada por se auer dado mucho a > > mugeres. 71m2-65r1-11 > > mecatiliztica (ne-invert.2). con amancebamiento. 71m2-67r2-11 > > mecatiliztli (ne-invert.2). amancebamiento. 71m2-67r2-11 > > nepanoliztli (ne-invert.2). copula, o ayuntamiento carnal. 71m2-68r1-12 > > nepanoa (nite). tener parte con muger, o meterse entre otros. > > 71m2-68v2-12 > > patlachhuiliztli (ne-invert.2). el acto de hazerlo la vna ala otra, > > pecando contra natura. 71m2-69r1-12 > > tlaneuhtilizcalli (ne-invert.2). burdel o casa de malas mugeres. > > 71m2-70v1-12 > > tlaneuhtiloyan (ne-invert.2). burdel o casa de malas mugeres. > > 71m2-70v1-12 > > tzincohuiloyan (ne-invert.2). burdel. 71m2-71r1-12 > > tzinnamacoyan (ne-invert.2). burdel. 71m2-71r1-12 > > noquicho. mi simiente. 71m2-73v2-13 > > occhalchihuitl. es aun donzella y virgen. metaphora. 71m2-75r1-13 > > ocmacitinemi. donzella virgen y entera. 71m2-75r2-13 > > ocmotquitinemi. virgen entera. 71m2-75v1-13 > > huel ichpochtli (oc -invert.2). virgen que esta aun entera. 71m2-75v2-13 > > otlamicti. hombre impotente para engendrar. 71m2-78r1-13 > > patlachhuia (nite). hazerlo vna muger a otra. 71m2-80r2-14 > > cuauhtilia (nitla). arrechar o alterar el miembro. 71m2-87r1-15 > > cuauhtlaza (nite). echarse muchos convna muger o dar botin. 71m2-87r1-15 > > quequeza (mo). tomarse las aues para engendrar. 71m2-89r1-15 > > quetza (nite). detener, o hazer parar alque camina o hazer leuantar alque > > esta asentado, o hazerlo el perro ala perra, o el cauallo ala yegua. > > 71m2-89r2-15 > > cochhuia (nite-invert.1). tener parte conla muger que esta durmiendo. > > 71m2-92v2-16 > > cuilonti (te-invert.2). el que lo haze a otro, pecando contra natura. > > 71m2-93v1-16 > > cuilontiani (te-invert.2). el que lo haze a otro, pecando contra natura. > > 71m2-93v1-16 > > cuilontiliztli (te-invert.2). el acto del que comete este pecado. > > 71m2-93v1-16 > > teichtacamecauh. manceba de soltero. 71m2-94r2-16 > > ixelehuiani (te-invert.2). cobdiciador de mugeres, o cobdiciadora de > > varones. 71m2-95v2-16 > > ixelehuiliztica (te-invert.2). cobdiciando mugeres. &c. 71m2-95v2-16 > > ixelehuiliztli (te-invert.2). cobdicia tal. 71m2-95v2-16 > > temecauh. manceba de soltero. 71m2-98r1-16 > > yani (tepan -invert.2). adultero. 71m2-102r1-17 > > yaqui (tepan -invert.2). adultero. 71m2-102r1-17 > > yauh (tepan ni-invert.1). cometer adulterio. 71m2-102r1-17 > > teca (nite-invert.1). echarse con alguna muger. 71m2-105v2-18 > > tecaliztli (te-invert.2). el acto de echarse y tener parte con muger. > > 71m2-106r1-18 > > tecani (te-invert.2). el que se echa con muger. 71m2-106r1-18 > > axiliztli (tetech-invert.2). el acto de tener parte, o ayuntamiento con > > muger. 71m2-106r1-18 > > aci (tetech n-invert.1). tener conuersacion y parte con muger. > > 71m2-106r1-18 > > tlamia (tetech nino-invert.1). infamar a alguna persona diziendo que tuuo > > parte conella, no siendo verdad. 71m2-106r2-18 > > acqui (tetlan-invert.2). trama de tela, o el que quiere adulterar. > > 71m2-108v2-18 > > nahualnochili (tetla-invert.2). alcahuete, o alcahueta. 71m2-108v2-18 > > nahualnochiliani (tetla-invert.2). alcahuete, o alcahueta. 71m2-108v2-18 > > nahualnochililiztli (tetla-invert.2). alcahueteria. 71m2-108v2-18 > > nahualnochiliqui (tetla-invert.2). alcahuete, o alcahueta. 71m2-108v2-18 > > nanahuatiliqui (tetla-invert.2). alcahuete, o alcahueta. 71m2-108v2-18 > > nahuatili (tetla-invert.2). alcahuete, o alcahueta. 71m2-108v2-18 > > nahuatililiztli (tetla-invert.2). alcahueteria. 71m2-108v2-18 > > aqui (tetlan n-invert.1). echarse, o tener parte conla que esta durmiendo. > > 71m2-108v2-18 > > nochili (tetla-invert.2). alcahuete, o alcahueta. 71m2-109r1-18 > > nochiliani (tetla-invert.2). alcahuete, o alcahueta. 71m2-109r1-18 > > nochililiztli (tetla-invert.2). alcahueteria. 71m2-109r1-18 > > nochiliqui (tetla-invert.2). alcahuete. 71m2-109r1-18 > > ximaliztica (tetla-invert.2). adulterando, o cometiendo adulterio. > > 71m2-110r2-19 > > ximaliztli (tetla-invert.2). adulterio. 71m2-110r2-19 > > ximani (tetla-invert.2). adultero. 71m2-110r2-19 > > xinqui (tetla-invert.2). adultero. 71m2-110r2-19 > > tetzacayotl. esterilidad delos que son esteriles y no engendran hijos. > > 71m2-110v2-19 > > tetzacati (ni). hazerse esteril. 71m2-110v2-19 > > tetzacatilia (nite). hazer esteril a alguna. 71m2-110v2-19 > > tetzacatl. esteril, que no tiene hijos. 71m2-110v2-19 > > tetzicayotl. esterilidad delos que no engendran. 71m2-111r2-19 > > tetzicati. hazerse esteril assi. 71m2-111r2-19 > > tetzicatl. esteril, que no engendra hijos. 71m2-111r2-19 > > tzintzayanaliztli (te-invert.2). corrompimiento de virgen. s. el acto de > > corromperla, lastimandola mucho. 71m2-111v1-19 > > tzintzayanani (te-invert.2). corrompedor tal. 71m2-111v1-19 > > xapotlaliztli (te-invert.2). corrompimiento, o desfloracion de virgen. > > 71m2-112r2-19 > > xapotlani (te-invert.2). corrompedor de virgen. 71m2-112r2-19 > > tilinia (nite). asir de alguna para tener parte conella. 71m2-113r2-19 > > tixpampa quiza. simiente de muger. &c. 71m2-113v2-19 > > tixpampa huetzi. simiente de muger. &c. 71m2-113v2-19 > > tlacaxinachtli. simiente devaron o de muger. 71m2-116r1-20 > > ihiani (tla-invert.2). asqueroso y aborrecedor dela comida, o dela muger. > > &c. 71m2-121v1-21 > > mictiliztli (tla-invert.2). impotencia del varon, que no puede tener parte > > con muger. 71m2-126v2-22 > > tlaneuhtia (nino). puta?ear la muger. 71m2-128v1-22 > > tlacuauhtilia (ni). arrechar o leuantar el miembro. 71m2-133v2-23 > > tlacuauhtiliani. el que assi leuanta el miembro. 71m2-133v2-23 > > tlacuauhtilliliztli [sic]. el acto de arrechar. 71m2-133v2-23 > > quequezaliztli (tla-invert.2). el acto de pisar o recalcar algo, o el acto > > de tomar el gallo ala gallina. 71m2-134r1-23 > > quequezani (tla-invert.2). recalcador, pisador, o pateador, o gallo que > > toma ala gallina. 71m2-134r1-23 > > tlaxintli (tla-invert.2). cornudo. s. al que han hecho adulterio. > > 71m2-140r1-24 > > tlatoca. el que anda sembrando o siembra semillas, o el que va al burdel, > > o el que continua la casa de su manceba o amiga. 71m2-140v1-24 > > xapotlalli (tla-invert.2). cosa agujerada, o horadada, o virgen > > corrompida. 71m2-145v1-25 > > xima (nitetla-invert.1). adulterar. 71m2-146r1-25 > > xochihuilli (tla-invert.2). muger encantada y lleuada por ay adelante. > > 71m2-146v1-25 > > tocihuayo. simiente de muger. 71m2-148v1-25 > > totomicqui. varon impotente para engendrar. 71m2-150v2-26 > > totomiquiliztli. impotencia de varon para engendrar. 71m2-150v2-26 > > tzimmicqui. varon impotente para engendrar. 71m2-152r2-26 > > tzincohuia (ninote). puta?ear el varon pagando ala dama. 71m2-152r2-26 > > tzinnamaca (nino). venderla muger su cuerpo. 71m2-152v1-26 > > tzinnamaca (nite). alcahuetear. 71m2-152v1-26 > > tzinquetza (nite). tener parte y tomarse el varon y la muger, amanera de > > brutos. 71m2-152v1-26 > > tzinquetza (nino). ponerse la muger amanera de perra o de otro animal, > > paraque el varon tenga parte con ella. 71m2-152v1-26 > > huel ichpochotl. virginidad entera. 71m2-156r1-26 > > xapotla (nite). desflorar o corromper virgen. 71m2-158v1-27 > > xinachoa (nino). asementarse. 71m2-159r2-27 > > > > ************ > > > > > > > > cccb *** sinful, hard of heart, evil, debauched, bad reputation > > > > achihualiztli. cosa ilicita que no se deue hazer. 71m2-2r2-1 > > achihualoni. cosa ilicita que no se deue hazer. 71m2-2r2-1 > > ahahuilnemi (n). rufianear. o luxuriar. 71m2-3r1-1 > > ahahuilnemiliztli. rufianeria o luxuria. 71m2-3r1-1 > > ayeccan. en mal tiempo o sazon, o lugar malo. aduerbio. 71m2-3v1-1 > > ayecyotl. maldad o malicia. 71m2-3v1-1 > > ayectiliztli. maldad o malicia. 71m2-3v1-1 > > ayectlachihua (n). hazer cosa mala. 71m2-3v1-1 > > ayectli. cosa mala. 71m2-3v1-1 > > apinahualiztica. desuergonzadamente. 71m2-7r1-1 > > apinahualiztli. desuerguenza. 71m2-7r1-1 > > apinahuani. desuergonzado. 71m2-7r1-1 > > apinahuani cihuatl. muger desonesta. 71m2-7r1-1 > > acualcan. lugar indecente y malo. 71m2-7r1-2 > > acuallachihua (n). hazer alguna cosa mala. 71m2-7r1-2 > > acuallachihualiztica. con malas obras. 71m2-7r1-2 > > acuallachihualiztli. obras malas. 71m2-7r1-2 > > acuallachihualli. obras mal hechas. 71m2-7r1-2 > > acuallachihuani. mal hechor. 71m2-7r1-2 > > acuallatolli. palabras malas. 71m2-7r1-2 > > acualli. cosa mala. 71m2-7r1-2 > > chicahualiztli (acualli ipan ne-invert.2). obstinacion o perseuerancia > > enel mal. 71m2-7r1-2 > > acuallotl. maldad o malicia. 71m2-7r2-2 > > acualtiliztli. maldad o malicia. 71m2-7r2-2 > > acualtin. malos. 71m2-7r2-2 > > aquetzca cihuatl. muger desonesta y sin verguenza. 71m2-7r2-2 > > aquixtilpilli. incorregible. 71m2-7v1-2 > > atlacanemi. hombre desconcertado dissoluto y vicioso. 71m2-8r1-2 > > atlacanemiliztli. dissolucion tal. 71m2-8r1-2 > > atlacatl. marinero, o mal hombre. 71m2-8r1-2 > > atlacualitolli. persona de ruyn fama. 71m2-8r2-2 > > ahuilihui (n). apocarse con los vicios. 71m2-9v2-2 > > ahuililama. vieja. luxuriosa y mala muger. 71m2-9v2-2 > > ahuilhuehue. viejo luxurioso rufian. 71m2-9v2-2 > > ahuilnemiliztli. vida carnal o luxuriosa. 71m2-9v2-2 > > ahuilnenqui. persona carnal y luxuriosa. 71m2-9v2-2 > > ahuiltelpocati (n). rufianear o luxuriar. 71m2-9v2-2 > > ahuiltelpochti (n). rufianear o luxuriar. 71m2-9v2-2 > > ahuiltelpochtontli. mozo rufianejo. 71m2-9v2-2 > > iuh nenti inchichixtiuh noyollo (zan -invert.2). hazerse poco apoco, o sin > > aduertir de mala condicion, y de amargo corazon. 71m2-14v1-3 > > cecemotli. persona de mala fama. metaphora. 71m2-15r2-3 > > cecentianquiztli. el que en todas partes tiene ruyn fama. 71m2-15v1-3 > > cenquizca tlahueliloc. hombre peruerso ymaluado. 71m2-17v1-3 > > centzonteti (ni). endurecerse o obstinarse. 71m2-18r2-3 > > chauhnecocoya (ni). estar endemoniado. 71m2-19r2-4 > > chicoyauh (ni). apartarse dela virtud. 71m2-20r2-4 > > chicoyolloani. hombre sospechoso y malicioso. 71m2-20r2-4 > > chicoquiza (ni). apartarse dela virtud. 71m2-20v1-4 > > cihuacuecuech. muger deshonesta y desuergonzada. 71m2-22v1-4 > > cihuatlahueliloc. hombre dado a mugeres, o mala muger. 71m2-22v2-4 > > cuecuetz. trauiesso y desuergonzado. 71m2-25v2-5 > > yeyeloac (ica-invert.2). hombre de mala fama. 71m2-31v2-6 > > nemi (in ica -invert.2). sensual y vicioso. 71m2-38v2-7 > > yollocuepa (nite). peruertir a otro. 71m2-40r2-7 > > yollo malacachilhuia (nicte). peruertir algo aotro. 71m2-40r2-7 > > yollotepitztlacuactia (ni). endurecerse y obstinarse. 71m2-40v1-7 > > yollotepitztlacuactiliztli. endurecimiento assi. 71m2-40v2-7 > > yollotepoztia (ni). endurecerse y obstinarse. 71m2-40v2-7 > > yollotequizaliztli. dureza y obstinacion assi. 71m2-40v2-7 > > yolloteti (ni). endurecerse perseuerando enel mal. 71m2-40v2-7 > > yollotetia (ni). endurecerse perseuerando enel mal. 71m2-40v2-7 > > yollotetilia (nite). endurecer y obstinar a otro assi. 71m2-40v2-7 > > yollotetiliztica. obstinadamente, o animosa y esforzadamente. > > 71m2-40v2-7 > > yollotetiliztli. endurecimiento y obstinacion, o animosidad y esfuerzo. > > 71m2-40v2-7 > > yollotetl. constante y animoso, o duro y obstinado. 71m2-40v2-7 > > yollotlacuactia (ni). endurecerse y obstinarse enel mal. 71m2-40v2-7 > > yollotlacuactiliztli. dureza assi. 71m2-40v2-7 > > yollotlacuahua (ni). endurecerse desta manera. 71m2-40v2-7 > > yollotlacuahua (nite). endurecer a otro. 71m2-40v2-7 > > yollotlacuahuac. endurecido desta manera. 71m2-40v2-7 > > yollotlacuahualiztica. obstinadamenteassi. 71m2-40v2-7 > > yollotlacuahualiztli. endurecimiento tal. 71m2-40v2-7 > > tequiz iyollo (iuhquin o-invert.2). endurecido de corazon. 71m2-43v2-8 > > tetl iyollo (iuhquin-invert.2). duro de corazon. 71m2-43v2-8 > > cuepa iyollo (iuhquin tetl mo-invert.1). obstinarse y endurecerse. > > 71m2-43v2-8 > > ixmaxalihui (n). dexar la buena costumbre. 71m2-46r1-8 > > macicahuia innitlatlacoani (nic). ser consumado en maldad. 71m2-50v2-9 > > maxiltia (nic). estar lleno de suziedad, o de maldad. 71m2-54v2-9 > > yollotetiliztli (ne-invert.2). endurecimiento de corazon, o proteruia. > > 71m2-66r2-11 > > nemilizitlacahuiliztli. corrupcion de costumbres. 71m2-67r2-12 > > catcapol (nican ni-invert.2). aqui estoy yo pecador o miserable. > > 71m2-71v2-12 > > catpolotica (nican ni-invert.2). aqui estoy yo pecador o miserable. > > 71m2-71v2-12 > > macicahuia nitlatlacoani (nic-invert.1). ser fino oconsumado pecador. > > 71m2-71v2-12 > > tlachixtinemi (nohuiampa-invert.2). muger desonesta que no guarda la > > vista. 71m2-74r2-13 > > ocholo iyollo. disoluta muger. 71m2-75r2-13 > > onicmac cahui innitlatlacoani. ser consumado y gran pecador. > > 71m2-77r2-13 > > pilchihua (nitla). pecar o hazer algun defecto. 71m2-81v1-14 > > cuachicuia (nitla). ser disoluto y desuergonzado. 71m2-84r1-14 > > quixcahuia inacayo. persona viciosa y carnal. 71m2-90v1-15 > > centlahueliltiliztli (te-invert.2). manera de biuir, o vida mala y pessima > > delos pecadores. 71m2-92r2-16 > > ichtacatlaxtlahuiani (te-invert.2). cohechador de juez. 71m2-94r2-16 > > ichtacatlaxtlahuiliztli (te-invert.2). cohecho. 71m2-94r2-16 > > yolcuepaliztica (te-invert.2). peruertidamente, o peruertiendo a otros, y > > trastornandoles el juyzio. 71m2-94v2-16 > > yolcuepaliztli (te-invert.2). peruertimiento assi. 71m2-94v2-16 > > yollotlahuelilocatililiztli (te-invert.2). inficionamiento del que > > inficiona y peruierte a otro. 71m2-95r2-16 > > yolmalacacho (te-invert.2). cosa que peruierte y desatina a otro. > > 71m2-95r2-16 > > yolmalacachoani (te-invert.2). cosa que peruierte y desatina a otro. > > 71m2-95r2-16 > > yolmalacacholiztica (te-invert.2). peruertiendo y desatinan do a otros. > > 71m2-95r2-16 > > yolmalacacholiztli (te-invert.2). peruertimiento tal. 71m2-95r2-16 > > telpochtlahueliloc. rufian, o mozo carnal. 71m2-96v1-16 > > telpochtlahuelilocati (ni). rufianear, o biuir carnalmente. 71m2-96v1-16 > > tencuauhxolotl. hombre de mala lengua. 71m2-99v1-17 > > tencuahuitl. hombre de mala lengua. 71m2-99v1-17 > > tlahuelilocacuitiani (te-invert.2). el que inficiona y haze malo a otro. > > 71m2-110r1-19 > > tlahuelilocacuitiliztli (te-invert.2). el acto de inficionar y da?ar a > > otros, o de hazerlos malos y peruersos. 71m2-110r1-19 > > tlahuelilocamaquiliztli (te-invert.2). el acto de inficionar y da?ar a > > otros, o de hazerlos malos y peruersos o peruertimiento. 71m2-110r1-19 > > tlahuelilocamatilizotl (te-invert.2). infamia, o mala opinion que se tiene > > de alguno. 71m2-110r1-19 > > tlahuelilocatiliztli (te-invert.2). > tetlahuelilocacuitiliztli>. 71m2-110-4-01-19 > > tlahuelilocatocani (te-invert.2). el que tiene mala opinion de otros. > > 71m2-110r2-19 > > tetzauhtlatlacoani. criminosa persona. 71m2-111r2-19 > > tetzauhtlatlacole. criminosa persona. 71m2-111r2-19 > > tetzauhtlatlacolli. pecado, o maldad grande y abominable. 71m2-111r2-19 > > tetzauhtlatlacoltica. criminalmente. 71m2-111r2-19 > > teuhtli tlazolli ic milacatzotinemi. el que biue mal y viciosamente. > > 71m2-111v2-19 > > teuhtli tlazolli nicololotinemi. biuir viciosamente. 71m2-111v2-19 > > tlacaahuilhuia (nite). peruertir y malear a otro. 71m2-114v2-19 > > tlacamiccatilia (nite). peruertir o malear a otro. 71m2-115v1-20 > > zolteocihuatl (tla-invert.2). muger diabolica y peruersa. 71m2-118v2-20 > > tlaellatolli. palabras desonestas y suzias. 71m2-120r2-20 > > tlaellaquetza (ni). dezir chistes, o consejuelas desonestas y muchas. > > 71m2-120r2-20 > > tlaelpaqui (ni). deleytarse con suzio deleyte. 71m2-120v1-21 > > tlaelpaquiliztica. con suzio o carnal deleyte. 71m2-120v1-21 > > tlaelpaquiliztli. suzio o carnal deleite. 71m2-120v1-21 > > tlaelpaquini. carnal persona. s. luxuriosa. 71m2-120v1-21 > > tlailpaqui (ni). . 71m2-121v2-21 > > tlailpaquiliztli. . 71m2-121v2-21 > > yollomachtli (tla-invert.2). persona notada de alguna falta, o vicio. > > 71m2-122r1-21 > > yollotlahuelilocatililli (tla-invert.2). maleado, o enloquecido de otros, > > por ledar priesa para tornarle loco. 71m2-122r1-21 > > yolmalacacholli (tla-invert.2). maleado, o enloquecido de otros, por ledar > > priesa para tornarle loco. 71m2-122r1-21 > > tlaneuhtia (nino). puta?ear la muger. 71m2-128v1-22 > > tlanehuia (ninote). puta?ear el varon. 71m2-128v2-22 > > pilchihualiztli (tla-invert.2). defecto, cosa malhecha, o pecado. s. el > > acto de pecar. 71m2-132r1-22 > > pilchihualli (tla-invert.2). pecado, o defecto. 71m2-132r1-22 > > pilchihuani (tla-invert.2). defectuoso, o pecador. 71m2-132r1-22 > > pilchiuhqui (tla-invert.2). defectuoso, o pecador. 71m2-132r1-22 > > pilchiuhtli (tla-invert.2). cosa malhecha, o culpa cometida. > > 71m2-132r1-22 > > tlatlacamiccati (ni). obstinarse y perseuerar enel mal, o tornarse loco y > > desatinado. 71m2-136v2-23 > > [i]tlacoa (nitla-invert.1). pecar, hazer mal, o da?ar yechar aperder > > alguna cosa. 71m2-137r1-23 > > [i]tlacoani (tla-invert.2). pecador tal. 71m2-137r1-23 > > [i]tlacoaniyetoca (ninotla-invert.1). tenerse por pecador. 71m2-137r1-23 > > [i]tlacoanime (tla-invert.2). pecadores. 71m2-137r1-23 > > [i]tlacoanitoca (nitetla-invert.1). tener alos otros por pecadores. > > 71m2-137r1-23 > > tlacolcecualoliztli (tla-invert.2). elada, o frialdad de pecados. > > 71m2-137r2-23 > > tlacolcehuapahualiztli (tla-invert.2). elada, o frialdad de pecados. > > 71m2-137r2-23 > > tlacolcocoliztli (tla-invert.2). enfermedad y pestilencia de pecados. > > 71m2-137r2-23 > > tlacolcuitia (nitetla-invert.1). hazer pecar a otro. 71m2-137r2-23 > > [i]tlacolitztiliztli (tla-invert.2). frialdad de pecados. 71m2-137r2-23 > > [i]tlacollaza (ninotla-invert.1). descargarse delos pecados enla > > confession sacramental. 71m2-137r2-23 > > [i]tlacolli (tla-invert.2). pecado, culpa, o defecto. 71m2-137r2-23 > > [i]tlacolli ipololoca (tla-invert.2). perdon, o remission de pecados. > > 71m2-137r2-23 > > tlacolmachilia (nitetla-invert.1). saber los pecados agenos. > > 71m2-137r2-23 > > tlacolnextia (nitetla-invert.1). descubrir, o manifestar pecados agenos. > > 71m2-137r2-23 > > tlacolnexxotla (nitetla-invert.1). descubrir, o manifestar pecados agenos. > > 71m2-137r2-23 > > tlacolohuitilia (nitetla-invert.1). poner a otro en peligro, o dificultad, > > con algun pecado que le hizo cometer. 71m2-137r2-23 > > tlacolpan (tla-invert.2). en pecado, o en pecados. 71m2-137r2-23 > > tlacolpan ni-nemi (tla-invert.1). biuir en pecado. 71m2-137r2-23 > > tlacolpan nite-tlaza (tla-invert.1). hazer caer a otro en pecado. > > 71m2-137r2-23 > > tlacolpantlaza (nitetla-invert.1). descubrir pecados agenos o hazer que > > alguno cayga en ellos. 71m2-137r2-23 > > tlacolpehualiztli (tla-invert.2). pecado original. 71m2-137r2-23 > > tlacolpeuhcayotl (tla-invert.2). pecado original. 71m2-137r2-23 > > tlacolpolihuiliztli (tla-invert.2). remission o perdon de pecados. > > 71m2-137r2-23 > > tlacolpopolhuia (nitetla-invert.1). perdonar, o absoluer delos pecados. > > 71m2-137r2-23 > > tlacoltitlan (tla-invert.2). entre los pecados. 71m2-137v1-23 > > tlacoltoma (ninotla-invert.1). desatarse o librarse delos pecados por la > > contricion, o confession sacramental. 71m2-137v1-23 > > tlacoltzintiliztli (tla-invert.2). pecado original, o comienzo de pecados. > > 71m2-137v1-23 > > tlayellatoa (nitla-invert.1). hablar cosas desonestas y suzias. > > 71m2-137v1-23 > > tlatlacoltomaliztli (tla-invert.2). absolucion, o desatamiento de pecados. > > 71m2-139r2-24 > > tlatlacoltomalli (tla-invert.2). absuelto y desatado depecados. > > 71m2-139r2-24 > > tlatlahuelilocati. el que se haze vellaco. 71m2-140r1-24 > > tlatlahuelilocatini. el que se haze vellaco. 71m2-140r1-24 > > tlatlahuelilocatilia. el que haze vellacos alos otros. 71m2-140r1-24 > > tlatlahuelilocatiliani. el que haze vellacos alos otros. 71m2-140r1-24 > > tlahueliloc. maluado, o vellaco. 71m2-144r2-25 > > tlahuelilocaaquilia (nite huel nitla). meter mal entre otros, > > reboluiendolos, o peruertiendolos. 71m2-144r2-25 > > tlahuelilocacuitia (nitla). . > > 71m2-144r2-25 > > tlahuelilocacuitia (nite). . > > 71m2-144r2-25 > > tlahuelilocacuitia (nino). peruertirse y hazerse malo. 71m2-144r2-25 > > tlahuelilo cacuitilli. peruertido y maleado de otros. 71m2-144r2-25 > > tlahuelilocayotica. peruersa y maliciosamente. 71m2-144r2-25 > > tlahuelilocayotl. maldad, o vellaqueria. 71m2-144r2-25 > > tlahuelilocaitoa (nite). hablar, o dezir defectos, o maldades agenas. > > 71m2-144r2-25 > > tlahuelilocamaca (nite). malear, o peruertir a otro. 71m2-144r2-25 > > tlahuelilocamaca (nino). malearse, o hazerse vellaco. 71m2-144r2-25 > > tlahuelilocamactli. maleado y peruertido de otros. 71m2-144r2-25 > > tlahuelilocamati (nite). tener a otro por ruin y vellaco. 71m2-144r2-25 > > tlahuelilocanemi (ni). andar hecho vellaco y perdido. 71m2-144r2-25 > > tlahuelilocanemiliztli. vida vellaca y peruersa. 71m2-144r2-25 > > tlahuelilocapo (no). vellaco como yo, o tan peruerso y malo como yo. > > 71m2-144r2-25 > > tlahuelilocati (ni). hazerse malo y vellaco. 71m2-144r2-25 > > tlahuelilocayotl. maldad, vellaqueria o malicia. 71m2-144r2-25 > > tlahuelilocatilia (nino). hazerse malo y vellaco. 71m2-144r2-25 > > tlahuelilocatilia (nite). hazer vellaco a otro, operuertillo. > > 71m2-144r2-25 > > tlahuelilocatilia (nitla). peruertir y malear a los otros. 71m2-144r2-25 > > tlahuelilocatililli. maleado y peruertido de otros. 71m2-144v1-25 > > tlahuelilocatlapiquia (nite). leuantar a otro que es malo y vellaco. > > 71m2-144v1-25 > > tlahuelilocatlatoa (ni). hablar mal, o dezir malicias, o hablar como > > vellaco y maluado. 71m2-144v1-25 > > tlahuelilocatoca (nite). tener a otro por ruyn y vellaco. 71m2-144v1-25 > > tlahuelilocattitinemi (ni). andar perdido y hecho vellaco. 71m2-144v1-25 > From Richard.Haly at Colorado.EDU Tue May 22 23:32:44 2001 From: Richard.Haly at Colorado.EDU (richard haly) Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 17:32:44 -0600 Subject: icnopilli / icnopilti Message-ID: All, My sense of the "merit" associated with orphanhood (icno-) is that for Nahua speakers, orphans belong to a different cultural category than they do in our culture(s). That is, "to look on someone as an orphan" means "with compassion" as an orphan is someone "deserving or meriting compassion." The icnocuicatl in the Cantares seem to support this as does the notion (sorry no reference immediately at hand) that one's uncle took over on the death of a male parent. Maybe there is a little problem with "merit" as our culture(s) conceive it as something earned which is not necessarily the case in Mesoamerica as it depends to some degree on one's tonalli. I suppose a contextual comparison and analysis of macehua vs icnopil might clarify things too. In a hurry, Richard Haly on 19.05.01 8:25 PM, patrick thomas hajovsky at pthajovs at midway.uchicago.edu wrote: > Mark, > > That's really interesting; you've got some of my wheels turning... I'm > wondering if there are other ways to describe merit, and if "merit" can be > considered as an aspect of fate rather than something acquired through > honor. And getting back to David's question, if both forms with icno were > in operation at the same time and in the same places. > > I'll check out the Carochi. Thanks for the response. > > Patrick > > _______________________________ > ixquich in pepetlaca xteocuitla > > On Sat, 19 May 2001, Mark David Morris wrote: > >> Patrick, >> >> Thanks for your comments; however, verbs derived or modified with icno >> clearly relate to merit. You might want to check the relevant sections of >> Carochi. best, >> Mark Morris >> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> >> La muerte tiene permiso a todo >> >> MDM, PhD Candidate >> Dept. of History, Indiana Univ. >> >> > From schwallr at selway.umt.edu Wed May 23 19:17:09 2001 From: schwallr at selway.umt.edu (John F. Schwaller) Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 13:17:09 -0600 Subject: "La Ley Azteca" - Re: homosexualidad y lesbianismo Message-ID: Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 09:53:38 -0500 To: nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu From: Bernard Ortiz de Montellano Subject: Re[2]: "La Ley Azteca" - Re: homosexualidad y lesbianismo This is not quite the whole story. Please check the urls cited http://www.aztlan.net/leyazteca.htm http://www.aztlan.net/drinko.htm Publishing the notorious antisemitic *Protocols of the Elders of Zion" as well as several antisemitic articles clearly shows the nature of this publication >Dear Nahuat-l List Members: > >We were offended by an individual on this >list who identified him or herself as >micc . Name calling and >labeling of users of the list is >unprofessional. We have been subscribers >for a long time but have never posted. >We have been contented in just reading >the comments and learning a little >Nahuatl along the way. La Voz de Aztlan >is a bilingual news service and our >subscribers are mostly Mexicans in the >southwest U.S. and in Mexico. This >person has insulted us. We are not >insulting anyone here. This type of >abuse should not be permitted in an >academic oriented discussion group >such as this one. We hope that the >majority of the group does not support >this person and allow us equal access >to the discussion here on the Aztec >Culture and language. From LaVoz at Aztlan.Net Wed May 23 20:21:28 2001 From: LaVoz at Aztlan.Net (La Voz de Aztlan) Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 13:21:28 -0700 Subject: "La Ley Azteca" - Re: homosexualidad y lesbianismo In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010523131441.02854ec0@selway.umt.edu> Message-ID: Dear Moderator of the Nahuat-l List: Is this a pro-Zionist mailing list? Will we be banned? The "protocols" are published for information and discussion only. Many of us Mexicans are not familiar with them. Is it against the law to publish them? Regardless of all the above, what does this have to do with Nahuatl? You people are acting worse than Nazis. La Voz de Aztlan On Wed, 23 May 2001 13:17:09 -0600 "John F. Schwaller" wrote: > Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 09:53:38 -0500 > To: nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu > From: Bernard Ortiz de Montellano > Subject: Re[2]: "La Ley Azteca" - Re: homosexualidad y lesbianismo > > This is not quite the whole story. Please check the urls cited > http://www.aztlan.net/leyazteca.htm > http://www.aztlan.net/drinko.htm > Publishing the notorious antisemitic *Protocols of the Elders of > Zion" as well as several antisemitic articles clearly shows the > nature of this publication > > >Dear Nahuat-l List Members: > > > >We were offended by an individual on this > >list who identified him or herself as > >micc . Name calling and > >labeling of users of the list is > >unprofessional. We have been subscribers > >for a long time but have never posted. > >We have been contented in just reading > >the comments and learning a little > >Nahuatl along the way. La Voz de Aztlan > >is a bilingual news service and our > >subscribers are mostly Mexicans in the > >southwest U.S. and in Mexico. This > >person has insulted us. We are not > >insulting anyone here. This type of > >abuse should not be permitted in an > >academic oriented discussion group > >such as this one. We hope that the > >majority of the group does not support > >this person and allow us equal access > >to the discussion here on the Aztec > >Culture and language. > > From mreynolds at bbrcreative.com Wed May 23 20:45:17 2001 From: mreynolds at bbrcreative.com (Matt Reynolds) Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 15:45:17 -0500 Subject: "La Ley Azteca" - Re: homosexualidad y lesbianismo In-Reply-To: <3B0C1BC88C.FE63LAVOZ@smtp.earthlink.net> Message-ID: the discussion was great up to this point...i found it to be very interesting. please let the discussion continue as i feel it will benefit all...regardless of their personal philosophical viewpoints. matt reynolds > From: La Voz de Aztlan > Reply-To: nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu > Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 13:21:28 -0700 > To: nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu > Subject: Re[3]: "La Ley Azteca" - Re: homosexualidad y lesbianismo > > Dear Moderator of the Nahuat-l List: > > Is this a pro-Zionist mailing list? > Will we be banned? > > The "protocols" are published for > information and discussion only. > Many of us Mexicans are not familiar > with them. Is it against the law to > publish them? > > Regardless of all the above, what > does this have to do with Nahuatl? > You people are acting worse than Nazis. > > La Voz de Aztlan > > > On Wed, 23 May 2001 13:17:09 -0600 > "John F. Schwaller" wrote: > >> Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 09:53:38 -0500 >> To: nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu >> From: Bernard Ortiz de Montellano >> Subject: Re[2]: "La Ley Azteca" - Re: homosexualidad y lesbianismo >> >> This is not quite the whole story. Please check the urls cited >> http://www.aztlan.net/leyazteca.htm >> http://www.aztlan.net/drinko.htm >> Publishing the notorious antisemitic *Protocols of the Elders of >> Zion" as well as several antisemitic articles clearly shows the >> nature of this publication >> >>> Dear Nahuat-l List Members: >>> >>> We were offended by an individual on this >>> list who identified him or herself as >>> micc . Name calling and >>> labeling of users of the list is >>> unprofessional. We have been subscribers >>> for a long time but have never posted. >>> We have been contented in just reading >>> the comments and learning a little >>> Nahuatl along the way. La Voz de Aztlan >>> is a bilingual news service and our >>> subscribers are mostly Mexicans in the >>> southwest U.S. and in Mexico. This >>> person has insulted us. We are not >>> insulting anyone here. This type of >>> abuse should not be permitted in an >>> academic oriented discussion group >>> such as this one. We hope that the >>> majority of the group does not support >>> this person and allow us equal access >>> to the discussion here on the Aztec >>> Culture and language. >> >> > From juergen.stowasser at univie.ac.at Wed May 23 23:13:37 2001 From: juergen.stowasser at univie.ac.at (Juergen Stowasser) Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 01:13:37 +0200 Subject: "La Ley Azteca" - Re: homosexualidad y lesbianismo Message-ID: I fear that this thread goes beyond "personal philosophical viewpoints". The disgusting antisemitic propaganda on the www.aztlan.net-site is just intolerable. best Juergen Stowasser Matt Reynolds schrieb: > the discussion was great up to this point...i found it to be very > interesting. please let the discussion continue as i feel it will benefit > all...regardless of their personal philosophical viewpoints. > > matt reynolds > > > From: La Voz de Aztlan > > Reply-To: nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu > > Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 13:21:28 -0700 > > To: nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu > > Subject: Re[3]: "La Ley Azteca" - Re: homosexualidad y lesbianismo > > > > Dear Moderator of the Nahuat-l List: > > > > Is this a pro-Zionist mailing list? > > Will we be banned? > > > > The "protocols" are published for > > information and discussion only. > > Many of us Mexicans are not familiar > > with them. Is it against the law to > > publish them? > > > > Regardless of all the above, what > > does this have to do with Nahuatl? > > You people are acting worse than Nazis. > > > > La Voz de Aztlan > > > > > > On Wed, 23 May 2001 13:17:09 -0600 > > "John F. Schwaller" wrote: > > > >> Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 09:53:38 -0500 > >> To: nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu > >> From: Bernard Ortiz de Montellano > >> Subject: Re[2]: "La Ley Azteca" - Re: homosexualidad y lesbianismo > >> > >> This is not quite the whole story. Please check the urls cited > >> http://www.aztlan.net/leyazteca.htm > >> http://www.aztlan.net/drinko.htm > >> Publishing the notorious antisemitic *Protocols of the Elders of > >> Zion" as well as several antisemitic articles clearly shows the > >> nature of this publication > >> > >>> Dear Nahuat-l List Members: > >>> > >>> We were offended by an individual on this > >>> list who identified him or herself as > >>> micc . Name calling and > >>> labeling of users of the list is > >>> unprofessional. We have been subscribers > >>> for a long time but have never posted. > >>> We have been contented in just reading > >>> the comments and learning a little > >>> Nahuatl along the way. La Voz de Aztlan > >>> is a bilingual news service and our > >>> subscribers are mostly Mexicans in the > >>> southwest U.S. and in Mexico. This > >>> person has insulted us. We are not > >>> insulting anyone here. This type of > >>> abuse should not be permitted in an > >>> academic oriented discussion group > >>> such as this one. We hope that the > >>> majority of the group does not support > >>> this person and allow us equal access > >>> to the discussion here on the Aztec > >>> Culture and language. > >> > >> > > -- Juergen Stowasser Burggasse 114/2/8 A-1070 Wien - Vien(n)a Austria tel: 01/ 524 54 60 v 0676/ 398 66 79 http://www.univie.ac.at/meso From micc at home.com Wed May 23 23:30:01 2001 From: micc at home.com (micc) Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 16:30:01 -0700 Subject: "La Ley Azteca" - Re: homosexualidad y lesbianismo Message-ID: The reason I brought this up is the fact that if you "disagree" with this type of rabid, angry and hateful ideology, therefor you must be "one of them".... if you are not anti-Semitic and homophobic you must therefore be "pro Zionist " and part of the "enemies [out to] destroy our culture" A culture of hatred? and intolerance??? Please check out OUR website to see a different way of looking at the world: www.mexicayotl.org thanks! mario e. aguilar La Voz de Aztlan wrote: > Dear Moderator of the Nahuat-l List: > > Is this a pro-Zionist mailing list? > Will we be banned? > > The "protocols" are published for > information and discussion only. > Many of us Mexicans are not familiar > with them. Is it against the law to > publish them? > > Regardless of all the above, what > does this have to do with Nahuatl? > You people are acting worse than Nazis. > > La Voz de Aztlan > > > On Wed, 23 May 2001 13:17:09 -0600 > "John F. Schwaller" wrote: > > > Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 09:53:38 -0500 > > To: nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu > > From: Bernard Ortiz de Montellano > > Subject: Re[2]: "La Ley Azteca" - Re: homosexualidad y lesbianismo > > > > This is not quite the whole story. Please check the urls cited > > http://www.aztlan.net/leyazteca.htm > > http://www.aztlan.net/drinko.htm > > Publishing the notorious antisemitic *Protocols of the Elders of > > Zion" as well as several antisemitic articles clearly shows the > > nature of this publication > > > > >Dear Nahuat-l List Members: > > > > > >We were offended by an individual on this > > >list who identified him or herself as > > >micc . Name calling and > > >labeling of users of the list is > > >unprofessional. We have been subscribers > > >for a long time but have never posted. > > >We have been contented in just reading > > >the comments and learning a little > > >Nahuatl along the way. La Voz de Aztlan > > >is a bilingual news service and our > > >subscribers are mostly Mexicans in the > > >southwest U.S. and in Mexico. This > > >person has insulted us. We are not > > >insulting anyone here. This type of > > >abuse should not be permitted in an > > >academic oriented discussion group > > >such as this one. We hope that the > > >majority of the group does not support > > >this person and allow us equal access > > >to the discussion here on the Aztec > > >Culture and language. > > > > From LaVoz at Aztlan.Net Thu May 24 00:11:19 2001 From: LaVoz at Aztlan.Net (La Voz de Aztlan) Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 17:11:19 -0700 Subject: "La Ley Azteca" - Re: homosexualidad y lesbianismo In-Reply-To: <3B0C47F8.E0ADDA57@home.com> Message-ID: So you are the collaborator that alerted all the gringos and zionists on this list! Are you making very much money "pimping" our culture to the white man. You are a disgrace to the race. ******************************************* On Wed, 23 May 2001 16:30:01 -0700 micc wrote: > The reason I brought this up is the fact that if you "disagree" with > this type of rabid, angry and hateful ideology, therefor you must be > "one of them".... if you are not anti-Semitic and homophobic you must > therefore be "pro Zionist " and part of the "enemies [out to] destroy > our culture" > > A culture of hatred? and intolerance??? > > Please check out OUR website to see a different way of looking at the > world: > www.mexicayotl.org > > thanks! > mario e. aguilar > > La Voz de Aztlan wrote: > > > Dear Moderator of the Nahuat-l List: > > > > Is this a pro-Zionist mailing list? > > Will we be banned? > > > > The "protocols" are published for > > information and discussion only. > > Many of us Mexicans are not familiar > > with them. Is it against the law to > > publish them? > > > > Regardless of all the above, what > > does this have to do with Nahuatl? > > You people are acting worse than Nazis. > > > > La Voz de Aztlan > > > > > > On Wed, 23 May 2001 13:17:09 -0600 > > "John F. Schwaller" wrote: > > > > > Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 09:53:38 -0500 > > > To: nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu > > > From: Bernard Ortiz de Montellano > > > Subject: Re[2]: "La Ley Azteca" - Re: homosexualidad y lesbianismo > > > > > > This is not quite the whole story. Please check the urls cited > > > http://www.aztlan.net/leyazteca.htm > > > http://www.aztlan.net/drinko.htm > > > Publishing the notorious antisemitic *Protocols of the Elders of > > > Zion" as well as several antisemitic articles clearly shows the > > > nature of this publication > > > > > > >Dear Nahuat-l List Members: > > > > > > > >We were offended by an individual on this > > > >list who identified him or herself as > > > >micc . Name calling and > > > >labeling of users of the list is > > > >unprofessional. We have been subscribers > > > >for a long time but have never posted. > > > >We have been contented in just reading > > > >the comments and learning a little > > > >Nahuatl along the way. La Voz de Aztlan > > > >is a bilingual news service and our > > > >subscribers are mostly Mexicans in the > > > >southwest U.S. and in Mexico. This > > > >person has insulted us. We are not > > > >insulting anyone here. This type of > > > >abuse should not be permitted in an > > > >academic oriented discussion group > > > >such as this one. We hope that the > > > >majority of the group does not support > > > >this person and allow us equal access > > > >to the discussion here on the Aztec > > > >Culture and language. > > > > > > > From micc at home.com Thu May 24 00:25:39 2001 From: micc at home.com (micc) Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 17:25:39 -0700 Subject: "La Ley Azteca" - Re: homosexualidad y lesbianismo Message-ID: ya ya ya what ever............ La Voz de Aztlan wrote: > So you are the collaborator that alerted all > the gringos and zionists on this list! Are > you making very much money "pimping" our > culture to the white man. You are a disgrace to > the race. > > ******************************************* > > On Wed, 23 May 2001 16:30:01 -0700 > micc wrote: > > > The reason I brought this up is the fact that if you "disagree" with > > this type of rabid, angry and hateful ideology, therefor you must be > > "one of them".... if you are not anti-Semitic and homophobic you must > > therefore be "pro Zionist " and part of the "enemies [out to] destroy > > our culture" > > > > A culture of hatred? and intolerance??? > > > > Please check out OUR website to see a different way of looking at the > > world: > > www.mexicayotl.org > > > > thanks! > > mario e. aguilar > > > > La Voz de Aztlan wrote: > > > > > Dear Moderator of the Nahuat-l List: > > > > > > Is this a pro-Zionist mailing list? > > > Will we be banned? > > > > > > The "protocols" are published for > > > information and discussion only. > > > Many of us Mexicans are not familiar > > > with them. Is it against the law to > > > publish them? > > > > > > Regardless of all the above, what > > > does this have to do with Nahuatl? > > > You people are acting worse than Nazis. > > > > > > La Voz de Aztlan > > > > > > > > > On Wed, 23 May 2001 13:17:09 -0600 > > > "John F. Schwaller" wrote: > > > > > > > Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 09:53:38 -0500 > > > > To: nahuat-l at server2.umt.edu > > > > From: Bernard Ortiz de Montellano > > > > Subject: Re[2]: "La Ley Azteca" - Re: homosexualidad y lesbianismo > > > > > > > > This is not quite the whole story. Please check the urls cited > > > > http://www.aztlan.net/leyazteca.htm > > > > http://www.aztlan.net/drinko.htm > > > > Publishing the notorious antisemitic *Protocols of the Elders of > > > > Zion" as well as several antisemitic articles clearly shows the > > > > nature of this publication > > > > > > > > >Dear Nahuat-l List Members: > > > > > > > > > >We were offended by an individual on this > > > > >list who identified him or herself as > > > > >micc . Name calling and > > > > >labeling of users of the list is > > > > >unprofessional. We have been subscribers > > > > >for a long time but have never posted. > > > > >We have been contented in just reading > > > > >the comments and learning a little > > > > >Nahuatl along the way. La Voz de Aztlan > > > > >is a bilingual news service and our > > > > >subscribers are mostly Mexicans in the > > > > >southwest U.S. and in Mexico. This > > > > >person has insulted us. We are not > > > > >insulting anyone here. This type of > > > > >abuse should not be permitted in an > > > > >academic oriented discussion group > > > > >such as this one. We hope that the > > > > >majority of the group does not support > > > > >this person and allow us equal access > > > > >to the discussion here on the Aztec > > > > >Culture and language. > > > > > > > > > > From mdmorris at indiana.edu Thu May 24 02:46:01 2001 From: mdmorris at indiana.edu (Mark David Morris) Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 21:46:01 -0500 Subject: "La Ley Azteca" - Re: homosexualidad y lesbianismo In-Reply-To: <3B0C5503.AA77891E@home.com> Message-ID: List People, Conditionally, I have no problem with the Voz de Aztlan posting to this list, especially for the purpose of gaining accurate information about important social issues; however, the attitude expressed in the organization's last posting and the organization's overall tone toward promoting ethnic cohesion by attacking other minorities is a very serious concern. By all means, however, the exchanges between Mexicayotl and Aztlan need to cease now on this list. We have all worked hard over the years to keep this a list of academic exchange on the Nahuatl language and Nahua culture. Please respect that ethic. best, Mark Morris ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ La muerte tiene permiso a todo MDM, PhD Candidate Dept. of History, Indiana Univ. From mclssaa2 at fs2.mt.umist.ac.uk Thu May 24 08:36:09 2001 From: mclssaa2 at fs2.mt.umist.ac.uk (Anthony Appleyard) Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 08:36:09 GMT Subject: "La Ley Azteca" In-Reply-To: <3B0C47F8.E0ADDA57@home.com> Message-ID: Various people wrote:- > The reason I brought this up is the fact that if you "disagree" with > this type of rabid, angry and hateful ideology, therefor you must be > "one of them" ... (1) I see nothing wrong with someone being pro-Zionist. (I am Christian.) (2) Haven't some people hear of the rights of neutrals to be left out of other people's quarrels? (3) The status of non-standard sex in Aztec society is one thing; the rights and wrongs of doing it as it is now, is very off-topic here. > The "protocols" are published for information and discussion only. > Many of us Mexicans are not familiar with them. Is it against the law to > publish them? The Protocols of the Elders of Zion are an old well-known notorious forgery. There is no need to confuse people by publishing them as a true document, as they are not true information. Anyway, the rights and wrongs of such things as they mention, are off-topic here. > What does this have to do with Nahuatl? Ditto. > ... La Voz de Aztlan is a bilingual news service and our subscribers are > mostly Mexicans in the southwest U.S. and in Mexico. ... I looked at http: // www.aztlan.net , and it said that they have no radio or TV transmission now. I couldn't find any Nahuatl matter on their web site. From gingeriw at stjohns.edu Wed May 23 22:57:16 2001 From: gingeriw at stjohns.edu (Gingerich Willard P.) Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 18:57:16 -0400 Subject: icnopilli / icnopilti Message-ID: Any consideration of Nahua ideas of merit must also look at the = concept-clusters in the Florentine, especially Bk VI, around occurrences = of the phrase in iilhuil in imaceual [A & D translate "the desert, the = merit" (poss.)], and in iilhuil, in imaceual, in inemac (A & D: "the = desert, the merit, the lot" of someone: 198 & 203). Also note icnoiotl = ilhuil, inemac iez (A & D: "misery will be his desert, his lot": 198). Chapter 36, describing the consultation with in tonalpouhque, in = tlamatinime on the occasion of a birth, is an especially intense = meditation on the interactions of tonalli, birth, personal destiny, = behavior, and merit. Chapter 20 is another intense discourse on misery, merit and mercy: in = icnonemiliztli, in nepechtecaliztli: ioan in nenomaiximachiliztli, inic = uellamachtilo in teteo, ioan in tlalticpac tlaca (A&D: "the humble life, = the bowing, the knowledge of one's self in order to be pleasing to the = gods and to man": 105). Humility and the knowledge of self which misery = and suffering appear to promote are inseparable from divine favor and = the Tlahtoani's munificence. =20 But perhaps the English word "merit" has served to conflate separate and = distinct, but interactive, Nahua concepts in these passages? Context is = crucial. Willard Gingerich St. John's University 8000 Utopia Parkway Jamaica, NY 11439 (718)990-1442 (718)990-1894 FAX gingeriw at stjohns.edu From schwallr at selway.umt.edu Thu May 24 14:28:39 2001 From: schwallr at selway.umt.edu (John F. Schwaller) Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 08:28:39 -0600 Subject: Friends of Uto-Aztecan Conference, July 8-9, 2001 Message-ID: PRELIMINARY PROGRAM 2001 Friends of Uto-Aztecan Working Conference / Taller de los Amigos de las Lenguas Yutoaztecas Santa Barbara Museum of Natural History Santa Barbara, CA, July 8-9, 2001 Sunday, July 8 [SSILA -FUAC joint session 9:00- 1:15, University of California-Santa Barbara] 12:15 "Narrative Gestures, Geographical Maps, and Mental Maps in Copalillo Guerrero" Tezozomoc, California State University at Northridge 12:45 "Diccionario yaqui-espa?ol: A Lexicographic Project" Zarina Estrada Fern?ndez, Universidad de Sonora FUAC Session: Santa Barbara Museum of Natural History 4:00 "Cora Clause Structure" Ver?nica V?zquez, Seminario de Lenguas Ind?genas, Instituto de Investigaciones Filol?gicas, UNAM 4:30 "Discontinuous Constituents In Cupe?o" Jane H. Hill, University of Arizona 5:00 "Shoshoni Accusatives" Dirk Elzinga, University of Utah 5:30 "Unravelling Numic Aspect" John E.McLaughlin, Utah State University 6:00-6:30 Coffee Break 6:30 Presentation of Uto-Aztecan Structural, Temporal, and Geographic Perspectives, Papers in Memory of Wick R. Miller by the Friends of Uto-Aztecan Monday, July 9 Santa Barbara Museum of Natural History Morning 9:30 "Foot Structure in S. Tepehuan" Lilian Guerrero, SUNY-Buffalo and the Universidad de Sonora 10:00 "Paradigmas l?xicos en el ?Vocabulario en castellano-mexicano de Ger?nimo Cort?s y Zede?o" Rosa H.Y??ez, Universidad de Guadalajara 10:30 ""Diccionario derivacional del guarij?o: problemas metodol?gicos" Ana Aurora Medina Murillo, Universidad de Sonora 11:00 "Luise?o Couplets, A Naming Strategy" Mercedes Montes de Oca, Seminario de Lenguas Ind?genas, Instituto de Investigaciones Filol?gicas, UNAM 11:30 "Comanche ?Coffee? " Willem J.de Reuse, University of North Texas Afternoon Santa Barbara Museum of Natural History 2:30 "Tataviam/Uto-Aztecan Comparisons" John Johnson, Santa Barbara Museum of Natural History and Pamela Munro, UCLA 3:00 "Additional Cognate Sets" Brian Stubbs, College of Eastern Utah, San Juan Campus 3:30 "Which Uto-Aztecan branch is the most conservative?" Karen Dakin, Seminario de Lenguas Ind?genas, Instituto de Investigaciones Filol?gicas, UNAM 4:00 "Alexis Manaster Ramer?s Model of Uto-Aztecan Phonology": Alexis Manaster Ramer, presented by Brian Stubbs John Frederick Schwaller schwallr at selway.umt.edu Associate Provost 406-243-4722 The University of Montana FAX 406-243-5937 http://www.umt.edu/provost/ From War14655 at aol.com Thu May 24 15:35:30 2001 From: War14655 at aol.com (War14655 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 11:35:30 EDT Subject: icnopilli / icnopilti Message-ID: Does anyone on the list-serve speak nahuatl? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From micc at home.com Thu May 24 15:58:25 2001 From: micc at home.com (micc) Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 08:58:25 -0700 Subject: "La Ley Azteca" - Re: homosexualidad y lesbianismo Message-ID: Dear Mark, I agree. In the past years i and others have been attacked on this list by people with political agendas that try to use the academic study of Nahuatl to further their causes. Over the past 2 years that I have been a member, Yaoqchtli at something, tezkatlipokasomething@????, and others come to mind. But as the song says: "I am still standing..." thanks you, mario e. aguilar Mark David Morris wrote: > List People, > > Conditionally, I have no problem with the Voz de Aztlan posting to this > list, especially for the purpose of gaining accurate information about > important social issues; however, the attitude expressed in the > organization's last posting and the organization's overall tone toward > promoting ethnic cohesion by attacking other minorities is a very serious > concern. By all means, however, the exchanges between Mexicayotl and > Aztlan need to cease now on this list. We have all worked hard over the > years to keep this a list of academic exchange on the Nahuatl language and > Nahua culture. Please respect that ethic. > > best, > Mark Morris > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > La muerte tiene permiso a todo > > MDM, PhD Candidate > Dept. of History, Indiana Univ. > From schwallr at selway.umt.edu Thu May 24 16:57:00 2001 From: schwallr at selway.umt.edu (John F. Schwaller) Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 10:57:00 -0600 Subject: Nahua Newsletter Message-ID: The most recent number of the Nahua Newsletter is now in the mail. It contains much useful information, as always. Past issues are also available on the web: http://www.ipfw.edu/soca/nahua.htm For more information contact: Alan R. Sandstrom sandstro at ipfw.edu John Frederick Schwaller schwallr at selway.umt.edu Associate Provost 406-243-4722 The University of Montana FAX 406-243-5937 http://www.umt.edu/provost/ From LaVoz at Aztlan.Net Thu May 24 17:44:32 2001 From: LaVoz at Aztlan.Net (La Voz de Aztlan) Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 10:44:32 -0700 Subject: "La Ley Azteca" In-Reply-To: <4C895625A1F@fs2.mt.umist.ac.uk> Message-ID: Estimado Sr. Anthony Appleyard: Thank you for your level-headed commentary on the little problem that arose when La Voz de Aztlan made an inquiry to the list. We would like to start all over again, now that everyone agrees that what we have published on our website should not matter when we make inquiries to this list on Nahuatl and other aspects of the Aztec culture. La Voz de Aztlan is interested in this list because we are promoting the teaching of Nahuatl in some of our public schools in Los Angeles County. Some of our schools are getting immigrant children who's primary language is Nahuatl. We believe that teachers assigned to educate these kids should at least have a rudimentary knowledge of Nahuatl. We perceive that there is a lot of brain power on the list otherwise we would not be wasting our time. We are interesting is creating a software program that can translate Nahuatl into English and Spanish. We have organized what we have called "The Nahuatl Project" and are participating in this list in order to advance the project. There has, however, been commentary on this list to the affect that our ancient indigenous ancestors were cannibals. We agree that in order to have a deep understanding of a language, we must also have intimate knowledge of the culture that engendered it. There are many false myths floating around about the Aztecs, specially among some Chicanos in Aztlan that are in the process of finding their true identity. There has been some meddling in this process by outsiders that have a political agenda. That is the reason we made the inquiry on "La Ley Azteca". >>From now on we hope to focus primarily on Nahuatl and will attempt to abstain from bringing forth controversial issues. Hasta La Victoria Siempre Ernesto Cienfuegos Editor-in-Chief La Voz de Aztlan ********************* On Thu, 24 May 2001 08:36:09 GMT "Anthony Appleyard" wrote: > Various people wrote:- > > > The reason I brought this up is the fact that if you "disagree" with > > this type of rabid, angry and hateful ideology, therefor you must be > > "one of them" ... > > (1) I see nothing wrong with someone being pro-Zionist. (I am Christian.) > (2) Haven't some people hear of the rights of neutrals to be left out of other > people's quarrels? > (3) The status of non-standard sex in Aztec society is one thing; the rights > and wrongs of doing it as it is now, is very off-topic here. > > > The "protocols" are published for information and discussion only. > > Many of us Mexicans are not familiar with them. Is it against the law to > > publish them? > > The Protocols of the Elders of Zion are an old well-known notorious forgery. > There is no need to confuse people by publishing them as a true document, as > they are not true information. Anyway, the rights and wrongs of such things as > they mention, are off-topic here. > > > What does this have to do with Nahuatl? > > Ditto. > > > ... La Voz de Aztlan is a bilingual news service and our subscribers are > > mostly Mexicans in the southwest U.S. and in Mexico. ... > > I looked at http: // www.aztlan.net , and it said that they have no radio or > TV transmission now. I couldn't find any Nahuatl matter on their web site. > From rude at stanford.edu Thu May 24 18:02:51 2001 From: rude at stanford.edu (Rudiger V. Busto) Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 11:02:51 -0700 Subject: Nahuatl and Cultural Nationalism Message-ID: It is clear from the recent exchange with Voz de Aztlan that the attention to and controversies over the "accuracy" of Aztec culture remains crucial to sectors of Chicano nationalists. While I disagree with the tone of Voz, members of the list must be aware of the impact philological "evidence" has on the construction, maintenance and contestation of Chicano expressive and political cultures. The first generation of Chicano activists, artists and scholars were, for example, heavily influenced by Leon-Portilla's _Aztec Thought and Culture_. Chicano students in my courses are hungry for translations of Nahuatl texts, especially the cosmogonies "The Birth of Huitzilopochtli", "Creation of the Fifth Sun", and "Los Cinco Soles" and especially the mysteries in and around the Nican Mopohua. We also find re-inscriptions of these stories in Chicana feminist art and literature (for example, Cherrie Moraga's interpretation of the Birth of Huitzilopochtli, and her conjectures about "El Sexto Sol" in her book _The Last Generation_. -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Rudy V. Busto rude at stanford.edu Assistant Professor 650.723.0465 (office) Religious Studies 650.725.1476 (fax) Stanford University Stanford, CA 94305-2165 "...who knows what the ostrich sees in the sand ? " --- Samuel Beckett John Frederick Schwaller schwallr at selway.umt.edu Associate Provost 406-243-4722 The University of Montana FAX 406-243-5937 http://www.umt.edu/provost/ From uncledelphi at softhome.net Thu May 24 21:01:54 2001 From: uncledelphi at softhome.net (Austin Rogers) Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 16:01:54 -0500 Subject: Nahuatl Question Message-ID: Good afternoon, Listeros! My name is Austin Rogers. I am a mesitzo college student in Alabama. I speak English, Spanish, and Japanese, and eventually plan to add Nahuatl to that list after graduation. I am currently writing a book that contains a smattering of Nahuatl, and I would like to ask for some help. Essentially, I would like to know what two words are in Nahuatl. The two words are "fact" and "feeling." For "fact," I am looking for something that implies objectivity and perhaps empiricism. For "feeling," I am looking for something that implies sensuality. Please pardon me if this request seems a bit childish, but at least it should not be offensive. I would appreciate any help in this matter. Thanks much, Austin Rogers uncledelphi at softhome.net From War14655 at aol.com Fri May 25 02:32:46 2001 From: War14655 at aol.com (War14655 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 22:32:46 EDT Subject: "La Ley Azteca" - Re: homosexualidad y lesbianismo Message-ID: I am still standing too -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From j.kremers at let.kun.nl Fri May 25 11:16:34 2001 From: j.kremers at let.kun.nl (Joost Kremers) Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 13:16:34 +0200 Subject: Particle "in" with nouns Message-ID: hello all, i have a question about a small point concerning Nahuatl grammar. my own knowledge of Nahuatl is still rudimentary, and the grammars i have do not seem to give an answer. hopefully someone on the list will be able to help me. the particle "in" can apparently be used before a noun and as such is sometimes compared to the definite determiner "the". my question is the following: can "in" also be used before a possessed noun? e.g.: a) in inan `his/her mother' b) in ichpocatl in inan `the girl's mother' or are these structures to be considered ungrammatical? similarly, can a demonstrative "inin" or "inon" be used before a possessed noun? e.g.: c) inin inan `this mother of his/hers' i would appreciate any comments you may have. thanks, joost kremers -- Joost Kremers, M.A. University of Nijmegen Department of Languages and Cultures of the Middle-East PO Box 9103 6500 HD Nijmegen tel: 024-3612996 fax: 024-3611972 http://joostkremers.nijmegennet.nl From maestas at ccwf.cc.utexas.edu Fri May 25 17:25:47 2001 From: maestas at ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (maestas at ccwf.cc.utexas.edu) Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 12:25:47 -0500 Subject: icnopilli / icnopilt Message-ID: It may be difficult to approach this by looking at English language based concepts of merit and may be more productive to consider Spanish and Mexican Catholic approaches to "merecimiento". Because of the Catholic overtones related to "merecimiento" it is based upon divine intervention that is not as far removed culturally as attempts to get at merit through an understanding of comparable Nahuatl concepts. In the Catholic Codexes of Sahagun and Duran it appears as though both friars engage productively in what Lockhart (1991) calls "Double Mistaken Identity" in which a concept is used in ways similar enough to grant a semblance of mutual understanding but in ways different enough to allow Nahuas and Spaniards to continue along with minimal changes in their worldview. Perhaps there are direct terms that were used to relate the Nahua and Spanish concepts of "merit" that provide clues to understanding the points of difference and similarity that allowed "Double Mistaken Identity" to function say in conversion and educational processes or in the transition from Nahua to Nahua-Spanish mixed forms of political and economic control, i.e. Altepetl (Calpulli) system to Cabildo system. To bring this closer to the present: Conchero Dance groups in Mexico and the US have highlighted the concept of Merecimiento as a cornerstone for spititual and community development of what many understand to be a modern manifestation of Indigenous Mexican and Spanish mestizaje. Martha Stone (1974) and Francis Toor (1948) describe this to a certain degree in Mexico and Andres Segura (1973; 1980) and Maestas (1998) describe the spread of these traditions into the US. It is possible also that MICCs website www.mexicayotl.com may have access to some of these references and additional information. Enrique Maestas On Wed, 23 May 2001, Gingerich Willard P. wrote: > Any consideration of Nahua ideas of merit must also look at the = > concept-clusters in the Florentine, especially Bk VI, around occurrences = > of the phrase in iilhuil in imaceual [A & D translate "the desert, the = > merit" (poss.)], and in iilhuil, in imaceual, in inemac (A & D: "the = > desert, the merit, the lot" of someone: 198 & 203). Also note icnoiotl = > ilhuil, inemac iez (A & D: "misery will be his desert, his lot": 198). > Chapter 36, describing the consultation with in tonalpouhque, in = > tlamatinime on the occasion of a birth, is an especially intense = > meditation on the interactions of tonalli, birth, personal destiny, = > behavior, and merit. > Chapter 20 is another intense discourse on misery, merit and mercy: in = > icnonemiliztli, in nepechtecaliztli: ioan in nenomaiximachiliztli, inic = > uellamachtilo in teteo, ioan in tlalticpac tlaca (A&D: "the humble life, = > the bowing, the knowledge of one's self in order to be pleasing to the = > gods and to man": 105). Humility and the knowledge of self which misery = > and suffering appear to promote are inseparable from divine favor and = > the Tlahtoani's munificence. =20 > But perhaps the English word "merit" has served to conflate separate and = > distinct, but interactive, Nahua concepts in these passages? Context is = > crucial. > > > Willard Gingerich > St. John's University > 8000 Utopia Parkway > Jamaica, NY 11439 > (718)990-1442 > (718)990-1894 FAX > gingeriw at stjohns.edu > > From micc at home.com Fri May 25 23:04:18 2001 From: micc at home.com (micc) Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 16:04:18 -0700 Subject: icnopilli / icnopilt Message-ID: An aside to Enrique's excellent comment is that the "merecimiento" of la danza Azteca is also based on adherence to the "ancestral" lineage of a person's dance circle (las animas conquistadoras de nuestros antepasados). Here is is not only divine intervention as much as it is the intercession (and thus merit of the intercession) of the ancestral spirits that come down into the dancers during the dance ceremony. I don't know if that makes any sense.... mario e. aguilar www.mexicayotl.org maestas at ccwf.cc.utexas.edu wrote: > It may be difficult to approach this by looking at English language based > concepts of merit and may be more productive to consider Spanish and > Mexican Catholic approaches to "merecimiento". Because of the Catholic > overtones related to "merecimiento" it is based upon divine intervention > that is not as far removed culturally as attempts to get at merit through > an understanding of comparable Nahuatl concepts. In the Catholic Codexes > of Sahagun and Duran it appears as though both friars engage productively > in what Lockhart (1991) calls "Double Mistaken Identity" in which a > concept is used in ways similar enough to grant a semblance of mutual > understanding but in ways different enough to allow Nahuas and Spaniards > to continue along with minimal changes in their worldview. Perhaps there > are direct terms that were used to relate the Nahua and Spanish concepts > of "merit" that provide clues to understanding the points of difference > and similarity that allowed "Double Mistaken Identity" to function say in > conversion and educational processes or in the transition from Nahua to > Nahua-Spanish mixed forms of political and economic control, i.e. Altepetl > (Calpulli) system to Cabildo system. > To bring this closer to the present: Conchero Dance groups in Mexico and > the US have highlighted the concept of Merecimiento as a cornerstone for > spititual and community development of what many understand to be a modern > manifestation of Indigenous Mexican and Spanish mestizaje. Martha Stone > (1974) and Francis Toor (1948) describe this to a certain degree in Mexico > and Andres Segura (1973; 1980) and Maestas (1998) describe the spread of > these traditions into the US. It is possible also that MICCs website > www.mexicayotl.com may have access to some of these references and > additional information. > Enrique Maestas > > On Wed, 23 May 2001, Gingerich Willard P. wrote: > > Any consideration of Nahua ideas of merit must also look at the = > > concept-clusters in the Florentine, especially Bk VI, around occurrences = > > of the phrase in iilhuil in imaceual [A & D translate "the desert, the = > > merit" (poss.)], and in iilhuil, in imaceual, in inemac (A & D: "the = > > desert, the merit, the lot" of someone: 198 & 203). Also note icnoiotl = > > ilhuil, inemac iez (A & D: "misery will be his desert, his lot": 198). > > Chapter 36, describing the consultation with in tonalpouhque, in = > > tlamatinime on the occasion of a birth, is an especially intense = > > meditation on the interactions of tonalli, birth, personal destiny, = > > behavior, and merit. > > Chapter 20 is another intense discourse on misery, merit and mercy: in = > > icnonemiliztli, in nepechtecaliztli: ioan in nenomaiximachiliztli, inic = > > uellamachtilo in teteo, ioan in tlalticpac tlaca (A&D: "the humble life, = > > the bowing, the knowledge of one's self in order to be pleasing to the = > > gods and to man": 105). Humility and the knowledge of self which misery = > > and suffering appear to promote are inseparable from divine favor and = > > the Tlahtoani's munificence. =20 > > But perhaps the English word "merit" has served to conflate separate and = > > distinct, but interactive, Nahua concepts in these passages? Context is = > > crucial. > > > > > > Willard Gingerich > > St. John's University > > 8000 Utopia Parkway > > Jamaica, NY 11439 > > (718)990-1442 > > (718)990-1894 FAX > > gingeriw at stjohns.edu > > > > From cipactonal at starmedia.com Sat May 26 19:09:12 2001 From: cipactonal at starmedia.com (cipactonal at starmedia.com) Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 15:09:12 EDT Subject: Archivo General de la Nacion, Mexico Message-ID: En el Archivo General de la Nacion, Mexico, se esta llevando a cabo la busqueda de todos los documentos en lengua nahuatl del grupo documental Tierras. Dichas imagenes se estan digitalizando para, posteriormente, hacer un disco compacto con las imagenes y descripciones breves del contenido de los documentos en nahuatl. Posteriormente se hara lo mismo con otros grupos documentales como Hospital de Jesus; Inquisicion; Indios; Civil; Ayuntamiento; Derechos Parroquiales y Bienes Nacionales. Todos ellos correspondientes a la Galeria 4, que es en donde estan los documentos del Virreinato. Tambien se hara este trabajo con los gruos documentales de la galeria 5, que es en donde esta la documentacion del siglo XIX. Espero que esta noticia sea del agrado de ustedes. Espero sus comentarios y sugerencias. Ignacio Silva Cruz cipactonal at starmedia.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Obt?n gratis tu cuenta de correo en StarMedia Email. ?Reg?strate hoy mismo!. http://www.starmedia.com/email ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From Amapohuani at aol.com Sun May 27 01:06:35 2001 From: Amapohuani at aol.com (Amapohuani at aol.com) Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 21:06:35 EDT Subject: Archivo General de la Nacion, Mexico Message-ID: In a message dated 5/26/01 12:25:53 PM, cipactonal at starmedia.com writes: << En el Archivo General de la Nacion, Mexico, se esta llevando a cabo la busqueda de todos los documentos en lengua nahuatl del grupo documental Tierras. Dichas imagenes se estan digitalizando para, posteriormente, hacer un disco compacto con las imagenes y descripciones breves del contenido de los documentos en nahuatl. Posteriormente se hara lo mismo con otros grupos documentales como Hospital de Jesus; Inquisicion; Indios; Civil; Ayuntamiento; Derechos Parroquiales y Bienes Nacionales. Todos ellos correspondientes a la Galeria 4, que es en donde estan los documentos del Virreinato. Tambien se hara este trabajo con los gruos documentales de la galeria 5, que es en donde esta la documentacion del siglo XIX. Espero que esta noticia sea del agrado de ustedes. Espero sus comentarios y sugerencias. Ignacio Silva Cruz >> Wonderful news! Ye ixquich. Barry D. Sell From notoca at hotmail.com Wed May 30 02:05:58 2001 From: notoca at hotmail.com (Chichiltic Coyotl) Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 10:05:58 +0800 Subject: Nahuatl Question Message-ID: Hi Would tlae:lpa:quiliztli suffice? It means something like, "the act of experiencing pleasure with strong emotions (with something)." Stems: tla = something (prefix) e:lli = liver, internal organ, association with strong emotions pa:qu(i) = to experience pleasure -liz = verb noun maker suffix -tli = absolutive suffix EZR _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. From notoca at hotmail.com Wed May 30 02:14:58 2001 From: notoca at hotmail.com (Chichiltic Coyotl) Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 10:14:58 +0800 Subject: Particle "in" with nouns Message-ID: Hi May I suggest an another form: ina:n in ichpo:catl - the girl's mother (i.e. her mother, the daughter). EZR >From: Joost Kremers >b) in ichpocatl in inan > `the girl's mother' > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. From mdmorris at indiana.edu Thu May 31 15:17:38 2001 From: mdmorris at indiana.edu (Mark David Morris) Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 10:17:38 -0500 Subject: Nahuatl Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: List, The message that follows was redacted from memory from some notes I made last night; hence, it gets a little tangled on one of its points, but I hope it contributes. Regarding Chilchiltic Coyotl's suggestion that tlaellipaquiliztli could serve for feeling, I wrote him or her yesterday that I thought the "e" of elli would drop combined with the generic object prefix tla-. After consulting Simeon's dictionary at home, I learned I was mistaken. But, now I have other questions. There are some composed words beginning witht eh two syllables tlael, such as tlaelehuia, (I`m working without notes so I may have mispelled the word) that are formed of tla- object prefix and elli - chest, liver, something with life; this word I want to point out is listed as "gemir" or "groan, yelp" and I take it to mean "raise up the chest," (and not desire if I have mispelled the word). The tlaelpaquiliztli suggested by Chilchiltic is glossed by Simeon as related to sensuality with negative connotations. My questions are if someone knows a way to determine if these two tlael syllables reprsent tla- object prefix and elli (chest, liver, etc.) or the derogatory prefix tlael, found in things such as tlaeltlacatl, bad fellow, and 2) if this derogatory tlael is not itself composed of tla- elli and as a derogatory term represents an extension of semantic meaning at some point in the language's history (the Franciscans, the Mexica?)? textually yours, Mark Morris P.S. Due to some significant mistakes or continuing doubts in my translation of the letter I presented to the list last week, I owe a follow up explanation that I hope to get to on Saturday. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ La muerte tiene permiso a todo MDM, PhD Candidate Dept. of History, Indiana Univ. From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx Thu May 31 15:53:41 2001 From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright) Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 09:53:41 -0600 Subject: Tlilli tlapalli Message-ID: Does anyone have any idea what could have been the reason Dibble and Anderson (Florentine Codex VI: 259) translated the metaphor "Intlil intlapal" as "their black, their red" rather than "their black, their colors"? The translation of "tlapalli" as "red" keeps cropping up in modern sources. I can't remember where all I've seen it; another example is in Garibay's vocabulary, in the Porrua edition of the Castillian text of the Florentine Codex; "Tlapallan" is translated as "Lugar del rojo". Molina (I, 27r; II 130v) makes it clear that "tlapalli" and the radical "tlapal-" refer to pigments for painting or dying in general, regardless of hue; the same is true of Sahagun (Florentine Codex XI: 245). Why red? The only possible explanation I can come up with is that "colorado, -a" in old Castillian was used for red, and retains this meaning today, especially in informal speech; this could have led to imprecise translations. Comments regarding the deeper meanings of this metaphor, or possible modern survivals, would also be greatly appreciated. Best regards, David Wright -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karttu at nantucket.net Thu May 31 19:28:41 2001 From: karttu at nantucket.net (Frances Karttunen) Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 15:28:41 -0400 Subject: Tlilli tlapalli Message-ID: Perhaps it would be more helpful to understand tli:lli, tlapalli as 'the black ink, the colored paint' that is, the two elements used in creating meaningful representations on amate paper or deerskin screenfolds. Tli:lli as 'ink' derives from 'soot.' Tlapalli also can mean 'ink' as well as paint, but probably not black ink. Its core meaning seems to be derived from palli, a type of clay used in dying cloth. ---------- From: David Wright To: Nahuat-l Subject: Tlilli tlapalli Date: Thu, May 31, 2001, 11:53 AM Does anyone have any idea what could have been the reason Dibble and Anderson (Florentine Codex VI: 259) translated the metaphor "Intlil intlapal" as "their black, their red" rather than "their black, their colors"? The translation of "tlapalli" as "red" keeps cropping up in modern sources. I can't remember where all I've seen it; another example is in Garibay's vocabulary, in the Porrua edition of the Castillian text of the Florentine Codex; "Tlapallan" is translated as "Lugar del rojo". Molina (I, 27r; II 130v) makes it clear that "tlapalli" and the radical "tlapal-" refer to pigments for painting or dying in general, regardless of hue; the same is true of Sahagun (Florentine Codex XI: 245). Why red? The only possible explanation I can come up with is that "colorado, -a" in old Castillian was used for red, and retains this meaning today, especially in informal speech; this could have led to imprecise translations. Comments regarding the deeper meanings of this metaphor, or possible modern survivals, would also be greatly appreciated. Best regards, David Wright -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karttu at nantucket.net Thu May 31 19:45:16 2001 From: karttu at nantucket.net (Frances Karttunen) Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 15:45:16 -0400 Subject: Nahuatl Question Message-ID: >I thought the "e" of > elli would drop combined with the generic object prefix tla-. After > consulting Simeon's dictionary at home, I learned I was mistaken. The reason the "e" doesn't drop after the prefix tla- is that it is a long vowel. The verb e:le:huia: is composed of e:l-li and e:huia: < e:hua. E:le:huia: means to desire something or someone and really does have to do with the liver, which was considered the seat of emotions. (The heart being the seat of volition.) The other "tlael-" with negative connotations is actually tlahyel-. Tlahyelli means something dirty, foul. The reason these two look alike in Simeon's and Molina's dictionaries is because neither indicates vowel length or the presence or absence of "saltillo" (glottal stop) that I have written here with an "h."