From RCRAPO at hass3.hass.usu.edu  Thu Nov  8 22:21:14 2001
From: RCRAPO at hass3.hass.usu.edu (Richley Crapo)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 15:21:14 -0700
Subject: mazanelhuatl
Message-ID: <THU.8.NOV.2001.152114.0700.RCRAPO@HASS3.HASS.USU.EDU>

On its face, mazanelhuatl might mean "deer root".  (Does anyone know if there is such a plant?)  But I've found it in a context in which "deer sinew" would fit, perhaps even better.  Is nelhuatl, which is glossed as 'root' in my sources, ever used to mean 'sinew' as far as anyone here knows?

Richley


From brokaw at acsu.buffalo.edu  Fri Nov  9 13:19:53 2001
From: brokaw at acsu.buffalo.edu (Galen Brokaw)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 08:19:53 -0500
Subject: mazanelhuatl
Message-ID: <FRI.9.NOV.2001.081953.0500.BROKAW@ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU>

Richley,
I assume you are working with a manuscript.
Are you sure it isn't "tlalhuatl"?
I've seen many "tl" combinations that can look like "n"s.
And the "a" and the "e" can often be abmiguous.
Maybe you have already explored this possibility. If it were
"mazatlalhuatl", it would make sense as "deer sinew".
If it isn't a manuscript, maybe the transcriber mistook the "tlal" for
"nel".

Galen

Richley Crapo wrote:

> On its face, mazanelhuatl might mean "deer root".  (Does anyone know
> if there is such a plant?)  But I've found it in a context in which
> "deer sinew" would fit, perhaps even better.  Is nelhuatl, which is
> glossed as 'root' in my sources, ever used to mean 'sinew' as far as
> anyone here knows?
>
> Richley


From campbel at indiana.edu  Fri Nov  9 15:20:37 2001
From: campbel at indiana.edu (r. joe campbell)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 10:20:37 -0500
Subject: mazanelhuatl
In-Reply-To: <3BEBD7F9.9105B6AC@acsu.buffalo.edu>
Message-ID: <FRI.9.NOV.2001.102037.0500.CAMPBEL@INDIANA.EDU>

Richley,
   I think Galen's idea of a possible scribo interpretation sounds more
likely than the semantic implications of 'mazanelhuatl'.  Kurzweil errors
weren't new to the 20th century.
   The semantic extension of 'nelhuatl' seems to be in area of "origin"
rather than "strength".  Here are some examples pulled from the
Florentine.

Best regards,

Joe


nelhuatl***

  cuauhnelhuatl.  tree root. <cuahuitl-nelhuatl>.
  eloxochinelhuatl.  . <e:lo:tl-xo:chitl-nelhuatl>.
  menelhuatica.  with maguey roots, by means of maguey roots. <metl-
    nelhuatl-ti1-ca2>.
  menelhuatl.  maguey root. <metl-nelhuatl>.
  menelhuayo.  containing maguey roots. <metl-nelhuatl-yo:tl1>.
  menelhuayo.  having a maguey root. <metl-nelhuatl-yo:tl1>.
  nelhuaihuiximatqui , tla-.  one who knows roots. <p51-nelhuatl--i:xtli-
    ih2-mati-prt1-qui1>.
  nelhuatl , tla-.  root. <tla??-nelhuatl>.
  nelhuatontli , tla-.  little root. <tla??-nelhuatl-to:n>.
  nelhuayo , i-.  his root, his origin; its root; its roots. <poss-
    nelhuatl-yo:tl1>.
  nelhuayo , mo-.  your roots. <poss-nelhuatl-yo:tl1>.
  nelhuayo.  having roots. <nelhuatl-yo:tl1>.
  nelhuayocan , i-.  the place of its roots. <poss-nelhuatl-yo:tl1-ca:n>.
  nelhuayohua.  it forms roots; it takes root; it becomes filled with
    roots. <nelhuatl-yo:tl1-v09>.
  nelhuayohuac , o-.  it was founded. <o:-nelhuatl-yo:tl1-v09-prt2>.
  nelhuayohuac.  it originated. <nelhuatl-yo:tl1-v09-prt2>.
  nelhuayoiximatini , tla-.  one who knows roots. <p51-nelhuatl-yo:tl1-
    i:xtli-ih2-mati-ni1>.
  nelhuayomatini , tla-.  one who knows herbs. <p51-nelhuatl-yo:tl1-mati-
    ni1>.
  nelhuayopitzahuac.  having slender roots. <nelhuatl-yo:tl1-pitza:hua-c1>.
  nelhuayotia , mo-.  it forms a root; it forms roots; it takes root.
    <p54-nelhuatl-yo:tl1-v04-caus08>.
  nelhuayotitech , i-.  next to its root. <poss-nelhuatl-yo:tl1-->.
  nelhuayotitiaque , otla-.  they went establishing their traditions.
    <o:-p51-nelhuatl-yo:tl1-v04-caus08=0-prt1-ti1--plur01>.
  nelhuayotomahuac.  thick-rooted, having thick roots. <nelhuatl-yo:tl1-
    toma:hua-c1>.
  nelhuayoton , i-.  its small root. <poss-nelhuatl-yo:tl1-to:n>.
  nenelhuayo , i-.  its root. <poss-dupl-nelhuatl-yo:tl1>.
  tlacamecayonelhuayotl.  source of lineage. <tla:catl-mecatl-yo:tl1-
    nelhuatl-yo:tl1>.
  tlanelhuatl.  root. <tla??-nelhuatl>.
  tlazolnelhuayotl.  . <tlazo:lli-nelhuatl-yo:tl1>.
  xiuhnelhuatl.  herb root. <xihuitl-nelhuatl>.
  yecnelhuayotl.  origin of good progeny. <ye:ctli-nelhuatl-yo:tl1>.



tlalhuatl***

  omitlalhuatl.  bundle of nerve fibers. <omitl-tlalhuatl>.
  tlalhuapitzactli.  thin nerve. <tlalhuatl-pitza:hua-->.
  tlalhuatic.  having nerves; nerve-like; sinewy; like sinews; stringy.
    <tlalhuatl-tic>.
  tlalhuatl.  nerve. <tlalhuatl>.
  tlalhuayo , i-.  his nerves. <poss-tlalhuatl-yo:tl1>.
  tlalhuayo , in-.  their nerves. <poss-tlalhuatl-yo:tl1>.
  tlalhuayo , tla-.  nerve-like. <dupl-tlalhuatl-yo:tl1>.
  tlalhuayo , to-.  our nerves. <poss-tlalhuatl-yo:tl1>.
  tlalhuayo.  full of nerves; having nerves. <tlalhuatl-yo:tl1>.
  tlalhuayoa , tla-.  it becomes filled with nerves. <dupl-tlalhuatl-
    yo:tl1-v09>.
  tlalhuayoa.  it becomes filled with nerves; . <tlalhuatl-yo:tl1-v09>.


From jmiguel at biblio.ues.edu.sv  Mon Nov 12 22:18:20 2001
From: jmiguel at biblio.ues.edu.sv (Juan Carlos Miguel Martinez)
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 16:18:20 -0600
Subject: mazanelhuatl
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.1011109100913.23119A-100000@kate.ucs.indiana.edu>
Message-ID: <MON.12.NOV.2001.161820.0600.JMIGUEL@BIBLIO.UES.EDU.SV>

mr campbell,espero que me pueda mandar algunos escritos de
sus investigaciones asi como las investigaciones de otros
compañeros ya que soy estudiante de periodismo y estoy
trabajando en la recolección del idioma nahuat ,idioma que
hablaron mis abuelos y antecesores...
estoy actualmente en un grupo de investigación nahualista que se
llama ITZAMNÁ TESCATLIPOCATL y espero que podamos
informarnos acerca de nuestras investigaciones...
gracias
su amigo Shuan
Juan Carlos Miguel


From schwallr at mrs.umn.edu  Fri Nov 16 14:42:23 2001
From: schwallr at mrs.umn.edu (John F. Schwaller)
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 08:42:23 -0600
Subject: Return to Aztlan
Message-ID: <FRI.16.NOV.2001.084223.0600.SCHWALLR@MRS.UMN.EDU>

In today's newspaper (Minneapolis Star Tribune) there was an announcement
regarding a 1991 movie "Return to Aztlan."  The plot involves an Aztec
priest and noble who in the late 15th century make a pilgrimage to Aztlan
in order to end a drought which has lasted four years.  The item goes on to
note that the film is in "the Aztec language" with English subtitles.

Does anyone know about this movie?

J. F. Schwaller


John F. Schwaller
Vice Chancellor for Academic Affairs and Dean
315 Behmler Hall
University of Minnesota, Morris
600 E 4th Street
Morris, MN  56267
320-589-6015
FAX 320-589-6399
schwallr at mrs.umn.edu


From schwallr at mrs.umn.edu  Fri Nov 16 17:14:49 2001
From: schwallr at mrs.umn.edu (John F. Schwaller)
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 11:14:49 -0600
Subject: Fwd: Re: Return to Aztlan
Message-ID: <FRI.16.NOV.2001.111449.0600.SCHWALLR@MRS.UMN.EDU>

>Reply-To: "Caroline Dodds" <caroline.dodds at corpus-christi.ox.ac.uk>
>From: "Caroline Dodds" <caroline.dodds at corpus-christi.ox.ac.uk>
>To: "John F. Schwaller" <schwallr at mrs.umn.edu>
>Subject: Re: Return to Aztlan
>Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 15:43:24 -0000
>X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300
>
>About a year ago I was looking for films and documentaries about the Aztec
>world and so I remembered coming across this film and have looked up the
>information again.
>
>I'm not positive that this is the same film, but I believe the film that you
>might be referring to is called 'In Necuepaliztli In Aztlan - Retorno a
>Aztlan', which was released in 1991. The film stars : Rodrigo Puebla, Rafael
>Cortes, Socorro Avelar, Jose Chavez Trowe and Martin Palomares. Blockbuster
>describe the plot as:
>
>"This historical drama set in the last years of the Aztec Empire before the
>arrival of Europeans is told entirely in Nahuatl, the ancient Aztec
>language. It tells the story of a warrior-priest's journey to Aztlan, the
>original (and very poor) homeland of the Aztecs. Ollín (Rodrigo Puebla) is
>making a religious pilgrimage in hopes of properly petitioning the gods to
>bring about the ending of a drought. Many magical events happen over the
>course of his journey and prayers in this unusual feature, which boasts
>historically accurate music, body-painting, and costumes, in addition to
>being told in the actual language of the Aztecs."
>
>The University of North Carolina also list a film in Nahuatl with Spanish
>subtitles called 'Retorno a Aztlan'. It depicts the creation of the Fifth
>Sun and was directed by Juan Mora Catlett, but it seems unlikely this is
>what you're looking for.
>
>I hope that this is of some help.
>
>Yours,
>Caroline Dodds
>
>Corpus Christi College
>Merton Street
>Oxford
>OX1 4JF
>Tel: 01865 456298


From ksmith at umail.ucsb.edu  Mon Nov 19 02:32:37 2001
From: ksmith at umail.ucsb.edu (Kevin P Smith)
Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 18:32:37 -0800
Subject: Tlaloc
Message-ID: <SUN.18.NOV.2001.183237.0800.KSMITH@UMAIL.UCSB.EDU>

Dear Neteros:
In an Inquisition record I'm working on there is a reference to an ancient
statue of Tlaloc, which bore on its forehead a chalchihuitl "con una
figura por la una parte, que dicen es cuenta de seis dias." Can anyone
speculate as to what figure this might refer? The scribe here is
translating testimony given in Nahuatl. Was Tlaloc especially connected
with a particular trecena or veintena in the Aztec calendar?

Thanks in advance for any information.

--
Kevin Paul Smith
University of California Santa Barbara
ksmith at umail.ucsb.edu


From owner-nahuat-l at mrs.umn.edu  Tue Nov 20 15:24:46 2001
From: owner-nahuat-l at mrs.umn.edu (owner-nahuat-l at mrs.umn.edu)
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 09:24:46 -0600
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <TUE.20.NOV.2001.092446.0600.>

> >From schwallr Mon Nov 19 14:35:15 2001
>Received: from amethyst.deans.umd.edu (root at amethyst.deans.umd.edu
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>In-Reply-To:
>  <Pine.GSO.4.21.0111181819590.11116-100000 at bergman.umail.ucsb.edu>
>Mime-Version: 1.0
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>Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 14:54:15 -0500
>To: Kevin P Smith <ksmith at umail.ucsb.edu>, nahuat-l at mrs.umn.edu
>From: "John B. Carlson" <jcarlson at pop.deans.umd.edu>
>Subject: Re: Tlaloc inscription
>
>At 6:32 PM -0800 11/18/01, Kevin P Smith wrote:
>
> >Dear Neteros:
> >In an Inquisition record I'm working on there is a reference to an ancient
> >statue of Tlaloc, which bore on its forehead a chalchihuitl "con una
> >figura por la una parte, que dicen es cuenta de seis dias." Can anyone
> >speculate as to what figure this might refer? The scribe here is
> >translating testimony given in Nahuatl. Was Tlaloc especially connected
> >with a particular trecena or veintena in the Aztec calendar?
> >
> >Thanks in advance for any information.
> >
> >--
> >Kevin Paul Smith
> >University of California Santa Barbara
> >ksmith at umail.ucsb.edu
>
>Kevin,
>
>One picture would have been worth all the testimony on this subject.
>
>(1) Is the inquisition record from Mexico city, or somewhere else? It would
>make some difference. Where did this take place?
>
>(2) Knowing what period this sculpture dated from would also be critical.
>Obviously, one can't know, but the assumption of a date from the time of
>contact is only an hypothesis.
>
>(3) If the number associated with the presumed tonalpohualli date were
>seven, I would have had a guess as to the sign. As it is, I think this is a
>virtually insoluble problem.
>
>Any chance you have more information on this record?
>
>John Carlson
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From owner-nahuat-l at mrs.umn.edu  Tue Nov 20 18:55:32 2001
From: owner-nahuat-l at mrs.umn.edu (owner-nahuat-l at mrs.umn.edu)
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 12:55:32 -0600
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <TUE.20.NOV.2001.125532.0600.>

>
>
>Hello.  I recall a few months back reading a message where someone
>obliquely referred to wordplay in nahuatl-  I took this to mean that
>words or their components may ostensibly refer to one thing, but
>are intentionally used in an environment where an additional meaning is
>made immanent.  A sort of double-entendre convention, I guess, only with
>the second meaning being semantically complementary to the first.
>         I wanted to know if anyone has an understanding of the nature of
>this device, perhaps examples of its use, or any opinions whatsoever about
>dual lexical meaning in Nahuatl.  Thanks-  Joanna Sanchez
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