From schwallr at mrs.umn.edu Fri Mar 5 19:33:21 2004 From: schwallr at mrs.umn.edu (John F. Schwaller) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 13:33:21 -0600 Subject: Taco Message-ID: A friend of mine, who is not a subscriber and who does not study Nahuatl sent me the following query: >But the real reason I'm writing is to ask you a question about Nahuatl. Is >there a word for taco? When I looked in Santamaria, the first gastronomic >references are from Manuel Payno and Luis Inclan, and of course the etymology >is a Spanish (or French) word for a cloth plug for a musket shot. Is there a root in Nahuatl? The closest thing I could come up with on the spot was "tlaco" meaning half, perhaps referring to the folded-over nature of the tortilla in a taco. John F. Schwaller Vice Chancellor for Academic Affairs and Dean 315 Behmler Hall University of Minnesota, Morris 600 E 4th Street Morris, MN 56267 320-589-6015 FAX 320-589-6399 schwallr at mrs.umn.edu From micc2 at COX.NET Fri Mar 5 21:23:24 2004 From: micc2 at COX.NET (micc2) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 13:23:24 -0800 Subject: Taco In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.0.20040305133152.01f192b0@schwallr.email.umn.edu> Message-ID: I heard once from a nahuatla'to from Morelia that it came from "Tlacua" eat something....... John F. Schwaller wrote: > A friend of mine, who is not a subscriber and who does not study Nahuatl > sent me the following query: > >> But the real reason I'm writing is to ask you a question about >> Nahuatl. Is >> there a word for taco? When I looked in Santamaria, the first >> gastronomic >> references are from Manuel Payno and Luis Inclan, and of course the >> etymology >> is a Spanish (or French) word for a cloth plug for a musket shot. > > > Is there a root in Nahuatl? The closest thing I could come up with on > the > spot was "tlaco" meaning half, perhaps referring to the folded-over > nature > of the tortilla in a taco. > > > > John F. Schwaller > Vice Chancellor for Academic Affairs and Dean > 315 Behmler Hall > University of Minnesota, Morris > 600 E 4th Street > Morris, MN 56267 > 320-589-6015 > FAX 320-589-6399 > schwallr at mrs.umn.edu > From dfrye at UMICH.EDU Sat Mar 6 01:12:08 2004 From: dfrye at UMICH.EDU (Frye, David) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 20:12:08 -0500 Subject: Taco Message-ID: Taco has a lot of meanings in Spanish, and apparently only means "something to eat" in Mexico, if you can go by the dictionaries. Corominas, working from the basic Castilian definition as "peg, plug," notes a first use from 1607 , and says: "Esta palabra, con sus deriv., es comun a las principales lenguas romances y germanicas del Occidente. [Note: my first question here was: if it is common to all the Western European languages, what is it in English? And then I realized: "tack," which like a peg/plug is used to stick in something. Corominas continues:] De origen incierto. No hay razones firmes para asegurar si pas'o del germ'anico al romance o viceversa, o si se cre'o paralelamente en ambos grupos linguisticos. Quiza imitacion del ruido del tarugo al ser clavado en la pared." Like other etymologists, he notes that tac'on is a variant of taco. Corominas is notoriously resistant to accepting Nahuatl etymologies, but in this case he may be onto something. If the word, in its Mexican sense, were derived from Nahuatl, I would expect to see earlier occurrences. In Lizardi's Periquillo Sarniento (which I just finished translating into English, to be published this month by Hackett--this is another kind of plug!), it is only used once, in the outmoded phrase "aire de taco," which has nothing to do with Taco Bell. Prepared food that sounds, from the description, like a modern-day taco is called instead an envuelto. I notice that the RAE Diccionario Manual gives among its definitions: "cilindro de trapo, papel, estopa o cosa parecida, que se coloca entre la polvora y el proyectil en las armas de fuego, para que el tiro salga con fuerza" (yet another kind of plug), and also "canuto de madera con que juegan los muchachos lanzando, por medio del aire comprimido, tacos de papel o de otra materia." Based on such images, the snack formed by rolling a tortilla into a cilinder around a plug of food could metaphorically be called a taco. (Note, finally, that nowadays i hear the word taco used in Mexico, at least in SLP, to refer to any amount of food that one brings home from a party -- not necessarily rolled in a tortilla; but I assume this is an extension of the original meaning.) ________________________________ From: Nahua language and culture discussion on behalf of John F. Schwaller Sent: Fri 3/5/2004 2:33 PM To: NAHUAT-L at LISTS.UMN.EDU Subject: Taco A friend of mine, who is not a subscriber and who does not study Nahuatl sent me the following query: >But the real reason I'm writing is to ask you a question about Nahuatl. Is >there a word for taco? When I looked in Santamaria, the first gastronomic >references are from Manuel Payno and Luis Inclan, and of course the etymology >is a Spanish (or French) word for a cloth plug for a musket shot. Is there a root in Nahuatl? The closest thing I could come up with on the spot was "tlaco" meaning half, perhaps referring to the folded-over nature of the tortilla in a taco. John F. Schwaller Vice Chancellor for Academic Affairs and Dean 315 Behmler Hall University of Minnesota, Morris 600 E 4th Street Morris, MN 56267 320-589-6015 FAX 320-589-6399 schwallr at mrs.umn.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jrabasa at SOCRATES.BERKELEY.EDU Sat Mar 6 01:44:05 2004 From: jrabasa at SOCRATES.BERKELEY.EDU (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Jos=E9?= Rabasa) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 17:44:05 -0800 Subject: Taco In-Reply-To: <71F249219F2E3845B88BE93BEC6DA4FB019CDF3F@lsa-m2.lsa.adsroot.itcs.umich.ed u> Message-ID: I would add to David's dictionary entries, one definition from the DICCIONARIO DE AUTORIDADES (1737): Taco. entre los bebedores se llama tragos de vino, que beben sobre lo que han comido: y asi dicen, Echemos quatro tacos. This definition does not appear in the COVARRUBIAS of 1611. >Taco has a lot of meanings in Spanish, and apparently only means >"something to eat" in Mexico, if you can go by the dictionaries. >Corominas, working from the basic Castilian definition as "peg, >plug," notes a first use from 1607 , and says: > >"Esta palabra, con sus deriv., es comun a las principales lenguas >romances y germanicas del Occidente. [Note: my first question here >was: if it is common to all the Western European languages, what is >it in English? And then I realized: "tack," which like a peg/plug is >used to stick in something. Corominas continues:] De origen >incierto. No hay razones firmes para asegurar si pas'o del >germ'anico al romance o viceversa, o si se cre'o paralelamente en >ambos grupos linguisticos. Quiza imitacion del ruido del tarugo al >ser clavado en la pared." Like other etymologists, he notes that >tac'on is a variant of taco. > >Corominas is notoriously resistant to accepting Nahuatl etymologies, >but in this case he may be onto something. If the word, in its >Mexican sense, were derived from Nahuatl, I would expect to see >earlier occurrences. In Lizardi's Periquillo Sarniento (which I just >finished translating into English, to be published this month by >Hackett--this is another kind of plug!), it is only used once, in >the outmoded phrase "aire de taco," which has nothing to do with >Taco Bell. Prepared food that sounds, from the description, like a >modern-day taco is called instead an envuelto. > >I notice that the RAE Diccionario Manual gives among its >definitions: "cilindro de trapo, papel, estopa o cosa parecida, que >se coloca entre la polvora y el proyectil en las armas de fuego, >para que el tiro salga con fuerza" (yet another kind of plug), and >also "canuto de madera con que juegan los muchachos lanzando, por >medio del aire comprimido, tacos de papel o de otra materia." Based >on such images, the snack formed by rolling a tortilla into a >cilinder around a plug of food could metaphorically be called a taco. > >(Note, finally, that nowadays i hear the word taco used in Mexico, >at least in SLP, to refer to any amount of food that one brings home >from a party -- not necessarily rolled in a tortilla; but I assume >this is an extension of the original meaning.) > > >From: Nahua language and culture discussion on behalf of John F. Schwaller >Sent: Fri 3/5/2004 2:33 PM >To: NAHUAT-L at LISTS.UMN.EDU >Subject: Taco > >A friend of mine, who is not a subscriber and who does not study Nahuatl >sent me the following query: > > >But the real reason I'm writing is to ask you a question about Nahuatl. Is >>there a word for taco? When I looked in Santamaria, the first gastronomic >>references are from Manuel Payno and Luis Inclan, and of course the etymology >>is a Spanish (or French) word for a cloth plug for a musket shot. > >Is there a root in Nahuatl? The closest thing I could come up with on the >spot was "tlaco" meaning half, perhaps referring to the folded-over nature >of the tortilla in a taco. > >John F. Schwaller >Vice Chancellor for Academic Affairs and Dean >315 Behmler Hall >University of Minnesota, Morris >600 E 4th Street >Morris, MN 56267 >320-589-6015 >FAX 320-589-6399 >schwallr at mrs.umn.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From notoca at HOTMAIL.COM Sun Mar 7 03:09:52 2004 From: notoca at HOTMAIL.COM (Chi:chi:ltic Coyo:tl) Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 11:09:52 +0800 Subject: Taco Message-ID: Hi I have seen the following words used for taco: Ixpikilli, ixpiktlaxkalli, senkamatl. cc -------Original Message------- From: Nahua language and culture discussion Date: Saturday, 06 March 2004 09:13:14 AM To: NAHUAT-L at LISTS.UMN.EDU Subject: Re: Taco Taco has a lot of meanings in Spanish, and apparently only means "something to eat" in Mexico, if you can go by the dictionaries. Corominas, working from the basic Castilian definition as "peg, plug," notes a first use from 1607 , and says: "Esta palabra, con sus deriv., es comun a las principales lenguas romances y germanicas del Occidente. [Note: my first question here was: if it is common to all the Western European languages, what is it in English? And then I realized: "tack," which like a peg/plug is used to stick in something. Corominas continues:] De origen incierto. No hay razones firmes para asegurar si pas'o del germ'anico al romance o viceversa, o si se cre'o paralelamente en ambos grupos linguisticos. Quiza imitacion del ruido del tarugo al ser clavado en la pared." Like other etymologists, he notes that tac'on is a variant of taco. Corominas is notoriously resistant to accepting Nahuatl etymologies, but in this case he may be onto something. If the word, in its Mexican sense, were derived from Nahuatl, I would expect to see earlier occurrences. In Lizardi s Periquillo Sarniento (which I just finished translating into English, to be published this month by Hackett--this is another kind of plug!), it is only used once, in the outmoded phrase "aire de taco," which has nothing to do with Taco Bell. Prepared food that sounds, from the description, like a modern-day taco is called instead an envuelto. I notice that the RAE Diccionario Manual gives among its definitions: cilindro de trapo, papel, estopa o cosa parecida, que se coloca entre la polvora y el proyectil en las armas de fuego, para que el tiro salga con fuerza" (yet another kind of plug), and also "canuto de madera con que juegan los muchachos lanzando, por medio del aire comprimido, tacos de papel o de otra materia." Based on such images, the snack formed by rolling a tortilla into a cilinder around a plug of food could metaphorically be called a taco. (Note, finally, that nowadays i hear the word taco used in Mexico, at least in SLP, to refer to any amount of food that one brings home from a party -- not necessarily rolled in a tortilla; but I assume this is an extension of the original meaning.) From: Nahua language and culture discussion on behalf of John F. Schwaller Sent: Fri 3/5/2004 2:33 PM To: NAHUAT-L at LISTS.UMN.EDU Subject: Taco A friend of mine, who is not a subscriber and who does not study Nahuatl sent me the following query: >But the real reason I'm writing is to ask you a question about Nahuatl. Is >there a word for taco? When I looked in Santamaria, the first gastronomic >references are from Manuel Payno and Luis Inclan, and of course the etymology >is a Spanish (or French) word for a cloth plug for a musket shot. Is there a root in Nahuatl? The closest thing I could come up with on the spot was "tlaco" meaning half, perhaps referring to the folded-over nature of the tortilla in a taco. John F. Schwaller Vice Chancellor for Academic Affairs and Dean 315 Behmler Hall University of Minnesota, Morris 600 E 4th Street Morris, MN 56267 320-589-6015 FAX 320-589-6399 schwallr at mrs.umn.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 1-59.gif Type: image/gif Size: 14872 bytes Desc: not available URL: From schwallr at mrs.umn.edu Mon Mar 8 21:45:27 2004 From: schwallr at mrs.umn.edu (John F. Schwaller) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 15:45:27 -0600 Subject: Fwd: Re: Taco Message-ID: >Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 19:59:42 -0600 >From: Karen Dakin >Subject: Re: Taco >To: John F Schwaller >User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.1.2418 > >John -- I've tried sending this via the list, but it rejects it. Thanks! > >Karen > > >I¹ve wondered if it might come from the possessed form of ihtakatl, >nohtakaw/nohtak, >ihtakaw, i[:]htak, Œitacate, food to take on an outing, or to the men >working in the fields, >etc.¹ This would go along with David Frye's comment about it referring to >any food brought home from a party. > >Also I remember that a colleague, Valentín Peralta has suggested that it >might come from >tlahko, since the form of tacos is not necessarily a roll -- it is folded >over at times, as well. > >Just guesses, however. > >Karen Dakin From schwallr at mrs.umn.edu Tue Mar 9 17:23:47 2004 From: schwallr at mrs.umn.edu (John F. Schwaller) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 11:23:47 -0600 Subject: San Diego Union Tribune Message-ID: Over the weekend the San Diego Union Tribune ran an article about Azteca dancers and Nahuatl. http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/features/20040307-9999-mz1c7dialect.html John F. Schwaller Vice Chancellor for Academic Affairs and Dean 315 Behmler Hall University of Minnesota, Morris 600 E 4th Street Morris, MN 56267 320-589-6015 FAX 320-589-6399 schwallr at mrs.umn.edu From schwallr at mrs.umn.edu Tue Mar 9 17:32:59 2004 From: schwallr at mrs.umn.edu (John F. Schwaller) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 11:32:59 -0600 Subject: NPR story Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From schwallr at mrs.umn.edu Fri Mar 19 22:09:47 2004 From: schwallr at mrs.umn.edu (John F. Schwaller) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 16:09:47 -0600 Subject: European conference Message-ID: AHILA, the European association of Latin American historians is organizing it's 14th International Congress for September, 2005, in Castellon, Spain. I am interested in organizing a symposium on colonial Nahuatl documentation for that congress. Scholars in Europe are especially invited to propose papers, but scholars from the Americas are also invited. John F. Schwaller Vice Chancellor for Academic Affairs and Dean 315 Behmler Hall University of Minnesota, Morris 600 E 4th Street Morris, MN 56267 320-589-6015 FAX 320-589-6399 schwallr at mrs.umn.edu From mexica at LYCOS.ES Tue Mar 23 05:40:39 2004 From: mexica at LYCOS.ES (Netza) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 23:40:39 -0600 Subject: Wikipedia in Nahuatl Message-ID: Maybe it's a weird idea to make a free-content nahuatl encyclopedia, and maybe that's why this project looks so down: http://nah.wikipedia.org/ There's an article that is trying to create neologisms in order to give the nahuatl a scientific and artistic terminology, but it doesn't have any success at all: http://nah.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yancuictlahtolli the nice thing about Wikipedia is that anyone can help and edit the contents. I'm sure some of the members of this list can help it a lot. Thanks. From campbel at INDIANA.EDU Tue Mar 23 06:26:59 2004 From: campbel at INDIANA.EDU (r. joe campbell) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 01:26:59 -0500 Subject: Wikipedia in Nahuatl In-Reply-To: <000201c41099$631863c0$93c0dd94@i8f5s6> Message-ID: Netzatzine', Thanks for the advice on the nah.wikipedia website! I took a look at it and had several reactions: 1) I'm glad that there are people who are interested enough in Nahuatl to do something active in it. 2) When there is no wheel, someone needs to start thinking, "I think I'll invent something called a wheel", but if some fairly smart and industrious people have already invented it, then one should climb up on their shoulders and ask, "How can I improve it for today's highways?" (Some of their words look like they didn't look at the old product first.) 3) If one is making something for his own amusement (and it isn't going to leave his own kitchen table), then it's all right to start without general knowledge of the technology and acquire it as he goes along, but if it's for public sharing (as we are all tempted to do nowadays with the available communication technology), he should be sure of general construction facts (in this case, the rules for word formation in Nahuatl) or submit his drafts to a native (of whom there are at least two on Nahuat-l). Some examples: idioma ihiyotlahtol (a common word for language is tlahtolli; I don't see a need for "ihiyo(tl)" -- it also carries the baggage of distracting connotations) diccionario tlahtolmeamoxtli (you can't compound a plural (tlahtolmeh) in a noun-noun compound) Oc achi moztla, Joe On Mon, 22 Mar 2004, Netza wrote: > Maybe it's a weird idea to make a free-content nahuatl encyclopedia, and > maybe that's why this project looks so down: > > http://nah.wikipedia.org/ > > There's an article that is trying to create neologisms in order to give the > nahuatl a scientific and artistic terminology, but it doesn't have any > success at all: > > http://nah.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yancuictlahtolli > From schwallr at mrs.umn.edu Tue Mar 23 14:31:52 2004 From: schwallr at mrs.umn.edu (John F. Schwaller) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 08:31:52 -0600 Subject: Wikipedia in Nahuatl In-Reply-To: <000201c41099$631863c0$93c0dd94@i8f5s6> Message-ID: At 11:40 PM 3/22/2004, you wrote: >There's an article that is trying to create neologisms in order to give the >nahuatl a scientific and artistic terminology, but it doesn't have any >success at all: > >http://nah.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yancuictlahtolli > >the nice thing about Wikipedia is that anyone can help and edit the >contents. I'm sure some of the members of this list can help it a lot. As Joe pointed out, this type of collaborative effort can be wonderful. The one major drawback to which he alluded is that without an editor it is difficult to separate the wheat from the chaff. I have seen wikipedia where many people with a little knowledge on a subject share all of the errors that they mutually believe. That kind of precess is not, in my opinion, a contribution to knowledge. Best of luck in this endeavor. I hope that everyone takes it seriously. J. F. Schwaller John F. Schwaller Vice Chancellor for Academic Affairs and Dean 315 Behmler Hall University of Minnesota, Morris 600 E 4th Street Morris, MN 56267 320-589-6015 FAX 320-589-6399 schwallr at mrs.umn.edu From idiez at MAC.COM Wed Mar 24 04:12:40 2004 From: idiez at MAC.COM (idiez at MAC.COM) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 22:12:40 -0600 Subject: double auxiliary verb Message-ID: Here's something I had never seen before: a double auxiliary verb. It's from Veracruz. "quimontontinentoqueh tlalli", "they have gone around piling up dirt" You start with the Spanish "[a]montonar", "to pile things up", and add the specific object prefix "-qui", and then the auxiliary verb "nemi" with the ligature, "-ti". This gives you, "they go around piling up dirt ("tlalli"). Then you put that whole thing in its combining form by chopping off the last vowel of nemi: "quimontontinen-", and add the second auxiliary verb "oc" (a preterite as present tense verb) with another ligature "-t[i]", meaning to have done something. It is conjugated in the third person plural. I also want to say that our website has been down for about two weeks now, and nobody can figure out how to get it back up. An alternate address in the meantime is http://homepage.mac.com/idiez/idiezweb John Sullivan, Ph.D. Profesor de lengua y cultura nahua Unidad Académica de Idiomas Universidad Autónoma de Zacatecas Director Instituto de Docencia e Investigación Etnológica de Zacatecas, A.C. Francisco García Salinas 604 Colonia CNOP Zacatecas, Zac. 98053 México Oficina: +52 (492) 768-6048 Celular (desde México): 044 (492) 544-5985 Celular (desde el extranjero) +52 (492) 544-5985 idiez at mac.com www.idiez.org.mx From campbel at INDIANA.EDU Wed Mar 24 06:31:04 2004 From: campbel at INDIANA.EDU (r. joe campbell) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 01:31:04 -0500 Subject: double auxiliary verb In-Reply-To: <7DC67BC2-7D49-11D8-BA63-003065C46A4A@mac.com> Message-ID: John, Your double auxiliary verb is double cool -- embedding a borrowing *and* doubling the auxiliary. I checked my notes and found these marked double auxiliaries from Molina: nicochtipilcatoc dormir (con) la cabeza colgada. 1555 nixtlapachonotihuetzi prostrarse por tierra. 1571 S/N and these from the Florentine Codex: necuicuitihuechotoc (not glossed yet) xonmocuicuitihuetzto (not glossed yet) quehuatiquetztihui (not glossed yet) mehuatiquetztiuh (not glossed yet) Since you are working with the living language and not a fixed body of data, you have the possibility of finding others and even probing at what your friends find acceptable. Maybe you'll find a triple!!! Saludos, Joe On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 idiez at MAC.COM wrote: > Here's something I had never seen before: a double auxiliary verb. It's > from Veracruz. > "quimontontinentoqueh tlalli", "they have gone around piling up dirt" > You start with the Spanish "[a]montonar", "to pile things up", and add > the specific object prefix "-qui", and then the auxiliary verb "nemi" > with the ligature, "-ti". This gives you, "they go around piling up > dirt ("tlalli"). Then you put that whole thing in its combining form by > chopping off the last vowel of nemi: "quimontontinen-", and add the > second auxiliary verb "oc" (a preterite as present tense verb) with > another ligature "-t[i]", meaning to have done something. It is > conjugated in the third person plural. > From campbel at INDIANA.EDU Wed Mar 24 14:23:23 2004 From: campbel at INDIANA.EDU (r. joe campbell) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 09:23:23 -0500 Subject: double auxiliary verb In-Reply-To: <7DC67BC2-7D49-11D8-BA63-003065C46A4A@mac.com> Message-ID: As the astute and wary have undoubtedly already noticed, "nixtlapachonotihuetzi" does not have a double auxiliary. (Note, however, that it *does* have two of the verbs which act as matrix verbs in "auxiliary" constructions.) |8-) Y'all can only imagine my horror this morning when I re-read what I had sent last night. I hope that my carelessness hasn't caused anyone to run out this morning and invest in stock in a double-auxiliary dot.com company... Joe From a.appleyard at BTINTERNET.COM Fri Mar 26 07:34:36 2004 From: a.appleyard at BTINTERNET.COM (=?iso-8859-1?q?ANTHONY=20APPLEYARD?=) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 07:34:36 +0000 Subject: Cuetzalan In-Reply-To: Message-ID: A recent underwater cave rescue has put the place name Cuetzalan (in Puebla state) in the news. What does the name come from? Is it correctly [Cuetzalla_n]? My Nahuatl to English dictionary contains [quetzalli] but not [cuetzalli]. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mrharri1 at FACSTAFF.WISC.EDU Fri Mar 26 16:16:03 2004 From: mrharri1 at FACSTAFF.WISC.EDU (MAX R HARRIS) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 10:16:03 -0600 Subject: Cuetzalan Message-ID: In Cuetzalan, in 1988, I picked up a little book by Antonio Santiago Aguilar Lara, called Tradicion: Ensayo historico y social del legendario pueblo de Quetzalan, which includes a lengthy digression (pp. 31-80) on the origin of the town's name. The author idientifies eight different theories, but finally settles on the most straightforward, that Cuetzalan is a corruption of Quetzalan, which, he claims, is how the name of the town is spelled in surviving documents from 1555 to 1863, and that it refers to the quetzal bird, with a possible secondary reference to the goddess Xochiquetzal. I have no way of assessing this theory, but, if you want to pursue your question further, Aguilar Lara's book (if you can find a copy) would be one place to start. Best wishes, Max Max Harris, Executive Director Wisconsin Humanities Council 222 South Bedford Street, Suite F Madison, WI 53703 Tel: 608/262-0706 Fax: 608/263-7970 ----- Original Message ----- From: ANTHONY APPLEYARD Date: Friday, March 26, 2004 1:34 am Subject: Cuetzalan > > A recent underwater cave rescue has put the place name Cuetzalan > (in Puebla state) in the news. What does the name come from? Is it > correctly [Cuetzalla_n]? My Nahuatl to English dictionary contains > [quetzalli] but not [cuetzalli]. > From donpuche at HOTMAIL.COM Sat Mar 27 00:29:42 2004 From: donpuche at HOTMAIL.COM (armando T.) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 18:29:42 -0600 Subject: word Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From schwallr at mrs.umn.edu Fri Mar 5 19:33:21 2004 From: schwallr at mrs.umn.edu (John F. Schwaller) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 13:33:21 -0600 Subject: Taco Message-ID: A friend of mine, who is not a subscriber and who does not study Nahuatl sent me the following query: >But the real reason I'm writing is to ask you a question about Nahuatl. Is >there a word for taco? When I looked in Santamaria, the first gastronomic >references are from Manuel Payno and Luis Inclan, and of course the etymology >is a Spanish (or French) word for a cloth plug for a musket shot. Is there a root in Nahuatl? The closest thing I could come up with on the spot was "tlaco" meaning half, perhaps referring to the folded-over nature of the tortilla in a taco. John F. Schwaller Vice Chancellor for Academic Affairs and Dean 315 Behmler Hall University of Minnesota, Morris 600 E 4th Street Morris, MN 56267 320-589-6015 FAX 320-589-6399 schwallr at mrs.umn.edu From micc2 at COX.NET Fri Mar 5 21:23:24 2004 From: micc2 at COX.NET (micc2) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 13:23:24 -0800 Subject: Taco In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.0.20040305133152.01f192b0@schwallr.email.umn.edu> Message-ID: I heard once from a nahuatla'to from Morelia that it came from "Tlacua" eat something....... John F. Schwaller wrote: > A friend of mine, who is not a subscriber and who does not study Nahuatl > sent me the following query: > >> But the real reason I'm writing is to ask you a question about >> Nahuatl. Is >> there a word for taco? When I looked in Santamaria, the first >> gastronomic >> references are from Manuel Payno and Luis Inclan, and of course the >> etymology >> is a Spanish (or French) word for a cloth plug for a musket shot. > > > Is there a root in Nahuatl? The closest thing I could come up with on > the > spot was "tlaco" meaning half, perhaps referring to the folded-over > nature > of the tortilla in a taco. > > > > John F. Schwaller > Vice Chancellor for Academic Affairs and Dean > 315 Behmler Hall > University of Minnesota, Morris > 600 E 4th Street > Morris, MN 56267 > 320-589-6015 > FAX 320-589-6399 > schwallr at mrs.umn.edu > From dfrye at UMICH.EDU Sat Mar 6 01:12:08 2004 From: dfrye at UMICH.EDU (Frye, David) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 20:12:08 -0500 Subject: Taco Message-ID: Taco has a lot of meanings in Spanish, and apparently only means "something to eat" in Mexico, if you can go by the dictionaries. Corominas, working from the basic Castilian definition as "peg, plug," notes a first use from 1607 , and says: "Esta palabra, con sus deriv., es comun a las principales lenguas romances y germanicas del Occidente. [Note: my first question here was: if it is common to all the Western European languages, what is it in English? And then I realized: "tack," which like a peg/plug is used to stick in something. Corominas continues:] De origen incierto. No hay razones firmes para asegurar si pas'o del germ'anico al romance o viceversa, o si se cre'o paralelamente en ambos grupos linguisticos. Quiza imitacion del ruido del tarugo al ser clavado en la pared." Like other etymologists, he notes that tac'on is a variant of taco. Corominas is notoriously resistant to accepting Nahuatl etymologies, but in this case he may be onto something. If the word, in its Mexican sense, were derived from Nahuatl, I would expect to see earlier occurrences. In Lizardi's Periquillo Sarniento (which I just finished translating into English, to be published this month by Hackett--this is another kind of plug!), it is only used once, in the outmoded phrase "aire de taco," which has nothing to do with Taco Bell. Prepared food that sounds, from the description, like a modern-day taco is called instead an envuelto. I notice that the RAE Diccionario Manual gives among its definitions: "cilindro de trapo, papel, estopa o cosa parecida, que se coloca entre la polvora y el proyectil en las armas de fuego, para que el tiro salga con fuerza" (yet another kind of plug), and also "canuto de madera con que juegan los muchachos lanzando, por medio del aire comprimido, tacos de papel o de otra materia." Based on such images, the snack formed by rolling a tortilla into a cilinder around a plug of food could metaphorically be called a taco. (Note, finally, that nowadays i hear the word taco used in Mexico, at least in SLP, to refer to any amount of food that one brings home from a party -- not necessarily rolled in a tortilla; but I assume this is an extension of the original meaning.) ________________________________ From: Nahua language and culture discussion on behalf of John F. Schwaller Sent: Fri 3/5/2004 2:33 PM To: NAHUAT-L at LISTS.UMN.EDU Subject: Taco A friend of mine, who is not a subscriber and who does not study Nahuatl sent me the following query: >But the real reason I'm writing is to ask you a question about Nahuatl. Is >there a word for taco? When I looked in Santamaria, the first gastronomic >references are from Manuel Payno and Luis Inclan, and of course the etymology >is a Spanish (or French) word for a cloth plug for a musket shot. Is there a root in Nahuatl? The closest thing I could come up with on the spot was "tlaco" meaning half, perhaps referring to the folded-over nature of the tortilla in a taco. John F. Schwaller Vice Chancellor for Academic Affairs and Dean 315 Behmler Hall University of Minnesota, Morris 600 E 4th Street Morris, MN 56267 320-589-6015 FAX 320-589-6399 schwallr at mrs.umn.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jrabasa at SOCRATES.BERKELEY.EDU Sat Mar 6 01:44:05 2004 From: jrabasa at SOCRATES.BERKELEY.EDU (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Jos=E9?= Rabasa) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 17:44:05 -0800 Subject: Taco In-Reply-To: <71F249219F2E3845B88BE93BEC6DA4FB019CDF3F@lsa-m2.lsa.adsroot.itcs.umich.ed u> Message-ID: I would add to David's dictionary entries, one definition from the DICCIONARIO DE AUTORIDADES (1737): Taco. entre los bebedores se llama tragos de vino, que beben sobre lo que han comido: y asi dicen, Echemos quatro tacos. This definition does not appear in the COVARRUBIAS of 1611. >Taco has a lot of meanings in Spanish, and apparently only means >"something to eat" in Mexico, if you can go by the dictionaries. >Corominas, working from the basic Castilian definition as "peg, >plug," notes a first use from 1607 , and says: > >"Esta palabra, con sus deriv., es comun a las principales lenguas >romances y germanicas del Occidente. [Note: my first question here >was: if it is common to all the Western European languages, what is >it in English? And then I realized: "tack," which like a peg/plug is >used to stick in something. Corominas continues:] De origen >incierto. No hay razones firmes para asegurar si pas'o del >germ'anico al romance o viceversa, o si se cre'o paralelamente en >ambos grupos linguisticos. Quiza imitacion del ruido del tarugo al >ser clavado en la pared." Like other etymologists, he notes that >tac'on is a variant of taco. > >Corominas is notoriously resistant to accepting Nahuatl etymologies, >but in this case he may be onto something. If the word, in its >Mexican sense, were derived from Nahuatl, I would expect to see >earlier occurrences. In Lizardi's Periquillo Sarniento (which I just >finished translating into English, to be published this month by >Hackett--this is another kind of plug!), it is only used once, in >the outmoded phrase "aire de taco," which has nothing to do with >Taco Bell. Prepared food that sounds, from the description, like a >modern-day taco is called instead an envuelto. > >I notice that the RAE Diccionario Manual gives among its >definitions: "cilindro de trapo, papel, estopa o cosa parecida, que >se coloca entre la polvora y el proyectil en las armas de fuego, >para que el tiro salga con fuerza" (yet another kind of plug), and >also "canuto de madera con que juegan los muchachos lanzando, por >medio del aire comprimido, tacos de papel o de otra materia." Based >on such images, the snack formed by rolling a tortilla into a >cilinder around a plug of food could metaphorically be called a taco. > >(Note, finally, that nowadays i hear the word taco used in Mexico, >at least in SLP, to refer to any amount of food that one brings home >from a party -- not necessarily rolled in a tortilla; but I assume >this is an extension of the original meaning.) > > >From: Nahua language and culture discussion on behalf of John F. Schwaller >Sent: Fri 3/5/2004 2:33 PM >To: NAHUAT-L at LISTS.UMN.EDU >Subject: Taco > >A friend of mine, who is not a subscriber and who does not study Nahuatl >sent me the following query: > > >But the real reason I'm writing is to ask you a question about Nahuatl. Is >>there a word for taco? When I looked in Santamaria, the first gastronomic >>references are from Manuel Payno and Luis Inclan, and of course the etymology >>is a Spanish (or French) word for a cloth plug for a musket shot. > >Is there a root in Nahuatl? The closest thing I could come up with on the >spot was "tlaco" meaning half, perhaps referring to the folded-over nature >of the tortilla in a taco. > >John F. Schwaller >Vice Chancellor for Academic Affairs and Dean >315 Behmler Hall >University of Minnesota, Morris >600 E 4th Street >Morris, MN 56267 >320-589-6015 >FAX 320-589-6399 >schwallr at mrs.umn.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From notoca at HOTMAIL.COM Sun Mar 7 03:09:52 2004 From: notoca at HOTMAIL.COM (Chi:chi:ltic Coyo:tl) Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 11:09:52 +0800 Subject: Taco Message-ID: Hi I have seen the following words used for taco: Ixpikilli, ixpiktlaxkalli, senkamatl. cc -------Original Message------- From: Nahua language and culture discussion Date: Saturday, 06 March 2004 09:13:14 AM To: NAHUAT-L at LISTS.UMN.EDU Subject: Re: Taco Taco has a lot of meanings in Spanish, and apparently only means "something to eat" in Mexico, if you can go by the dictionaries. Corominas, working from the basic Castilian definition as "peg, plug," notes a first use from 1607 , and says: "Esta palabra, con sus deriv., es comun a las principales lenguas romances y germanicas del Occidente. [Note: my first question here was: if it is common to all the Western European languages, what is it in English? And then I realized: "tack," which like a peg/plug is used to stick in something. Corominas continues:] De origen incierto. No hay razones firmes para asegurar si pas'o del germ'anico al romance o viceversa, o si se cre'o paralelamente en ambos grupos linguisticos. Quiza imitacion del ruido del tarugo al ser clavado en la pared." Like other etymologists, he notes that tac'on is a variant of taco. Corominas is notoriously resistant to accepting Nahuatl etymologies, but in this case he may be onto something. If the word, in its Mexican sense, were derived from Nahuatl, I would expect to see earlier occurrences. In Lizardi s Periquillo Sarniento (which I just finished translating into English, to be published this month by Hackett--this is another kind of plug!), it is only used once, in the outmoded phrase "aire de taco," which has nothing to do with Taco Bell. Prepared food that sounds, from the description, like a modern-day taco is called instead an envuelto. I notice that the RAE Diccionario Manual gives among its definitions: cilindro de trapo, papel, estopa o cosa parecida, que se coloca entre la polvora y el proyectil en las armas de fuego, para que el tiro salga con fuerza" (yet another kind of plug), and also "canuto de madera con que juegan los muchachos lanzando, por medio del aire comprimido, tacos de papel o de otra materia." Based on such images, the snack formed by rolling a tortilla into a cilinder around a plug of food could metaphorically be called a taco. (Note, finally, that nowadays i hear the word taco used in Mexico, at least in SLP, to refer to any amount of food that one brings home from a party -- not necessarily rolled in a tortilla; but I assume this is an extension of the original meaning.) From: Nahua language and culture discussion on behalf of John F. Schwaller Sent: Fri 3/5/2004 2:33 PM To: NAHUAT-L at LISTS.UMN.EDU Subject: Taco A friend of mine, who is not a subscriber and who does not study Nahuatl sent me the following query: >But the real reason I'm writing is to ask you a question about Nahuatl. Is >there a word for taco? When I looked in Santamaria, the first gastronomic >references are from Manuel Payno and Luis Inclan, and of course the etymology >is a Spanish (or French) word for a cloth plug for a musket shot. Is there a root in Nahuatl? The closest thing I could come up with on the spot was "tlaco" meaning half, perhaps referring to the folded-over nature of the tortilla in a taco. John F. Schwaller Vice Chancellor for Academic Affairs and Dean 315 Behmler Hall University of Minnesota, Morris 600 E 4th Street Morris, MN 56267 320-589-6015 FAX 320-589-6399 schwallr at mrs.umn.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 1-59.gif Type: image/gif Size: 14872 bytes Desc: not available URL: From schwallr at mrs.umn.edu Mon Mar 8 21:45:27 2004 From: schwallr at mrs.umn.edu (John F. Schwaller) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 15:45:27 -0600 Subject: Fwd: Re: Taco Message-ID: >Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 19:59:42 -0600 >From: Karen Dakin >Subject: Re: Taco >To: John F Schwaller >User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.1.2418 > >John -- I've tried sending this via the list, but it rejects it. Thanks! > >Karen > > >I?ve wondered if it might come from the possessed form of ihtakatl, >nohtakaw/nohtak, >ihtakaw, i[:]htak, ?itacate, food to take on an outing, or to the men >working in the fields, >etc.? This would go along with David Frye's comment about it referring to >any food brought home from a party. > >Also I remember that a colleague, Valent?n Peralta has suggested that it >might come from >tlahko, since the form of tacos is not necessarily a roll -- it is folded >over at times, as well. > >Just guesses, however. > >Karen Dakin From schwallr at mrs.umn.edu Tue Mar 9 17:23:47 2004 From: schwallr at mrs.umn.edu (John F. Schwaller) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 11:23:47 -0600 Subject: San Diego Union Tribune Message-ID: Over the weekend the San Diego Union Tribune ran an article about Azteca dancers and Nahuatl. http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/features/20040307-9999-mz1c7dialect.html John F. Schwaller Vice Chancellor for Academic Affairs and Dean 315 Behmler Hall University of Minnesota, Morris 600 E 4th Street Morris, MN 56267 320-589-6015 FAX 320-589-6399 schwallr at mrs.umn.edu From schwallr at mrs.umn.edu Tue Mar 9 17:32:59 2004 From: schwallr at mrs.umn.edu (John F. Schwaller) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 11:32:59 -0600 Subject: NPR story Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From schwallr at mrs.umn.edu Fri Mar 19 22:09:47 2004 From: schwallr at mrs.umn.edu (John F. Schwaller) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 16:09:47 -0600 Subject: European conference Message-ID: AHILA, the European association of Latin American historians is organizing it's 14th International Congress for September, 2005, in Castellon, Spain. I am interested in organizing a symposium on colonial Nahuatl documentation for that congress. Scholars in Europe are especially invited to propose papers, but scholars from the Americas are also invited. John F. Schwaller Vice Chancellor for Academic Affairs and Dean 315 Behmler Hall University of Minnesota, Morris 600 E 4th Street Morris, MN 56267 320-589-6015 FAX 320-589-6399 schwallr at mrs.umn.edu From mexica at LYCOS.ES Tue Mar 23 05:40:39 2004 From: mexica at LYCOS.ES (Netza) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 23:40:39 -0600 Subject: Wikipedia in Nahuatl Message-ID: Maybe it's a weird idea to make a free-content nahuatl encyclopedia, and maybe that's why this project looks so down: http://nah.wikipedia.org/ There's an article that is trying to create neologisms in order to give the nahuatl a scientific and artistic terminology, but it doesn't have any success at all: http://nah.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yancuictlahtolli the nice thing about Wikipedia is that anyone can help and edit the contents. I'm sure some of the members of this list can help it a lot. Thanks. From campbel at INDIANA.EDU Tue Mar 23 06:26:59 2004 From: campbel at INDIANA.EDU (r. joe campbell) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 01:26:59 -0500 Subject: Wikipedia in Nahuatl In-Reply-To: <000201c41099$631863c0$93c0dd94@i8f5s6> Message-ID: Netzatzine', Thanks for the advice on the nah.wikipedia website! I took a look at it and had several reactions: 1) I'm glad that there are people who are interested enough in Nahuatl to do something active in it. 2) When there is no wheel, someone needs to start thinking, "I think I'll invent something called a wheel", but if some fairly smart and industrious people have already invented it, then one should climb up on their shoulders and ask, "How can I improve it for today's highways?" (Some of their words look like they didn't look at the old product first.) 3) If one is making something for his own amusement (and it isn't going to leave his own kitchen table), then it's all right to start without general knowledge of the technology and acquire it as he goes along, but if it's for public sharing (as we are all tempted to do nowadays with the available communication technology), he should be sure of general construction facts (in this case, the rules for word formation in Nahuatl) or submit his drafts to a native (of whom there are at least two on Nahuat-l). Some examples: idioma ihiyotlahtol (a common word for language is tlahtolli; I don't see a need for "ihiyo(tl)" -- it also carries the baggage of distracting connotations) diccionario tlahtolmeamoxtli (you can't compound a plural (tlahtolmeh) in a noun-noun compound) Oc achi moztla, Joe On Mon, 22 Mar 2004, Netza wrote: > Maybe it's a weird idea to make a free-content nahuatl encyclopedia, and > maybe that's why this project looks so down: > > http://nah.wikipedia.org/ > > There's an article that is trying to create neologisms in order to give the > nahuatl a scientific and artistic terminology, but it doesn't have any > success at all: > > http://nah.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yancuictlahtolli > From schwallr at mrs.umn.edu Tue Mar 23 14:31:52 2004 From: schwallr at mrs.umn.edu (John F. Schwaller) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 08:31:52 -0600 Subject: Wikipedia in Nahuatl In-Reply-To: <000201c41099$631863c0$93c0dd94@i8f5s6> Message-ID: At 11:40 PM 3/22/2004, you wrote: >There's an article that is trying to create neologisms in order to give the >nahuatl a scientific and artistic terminology, but it doesn't have any >success at all: > >http://nah.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yancuictlahtolli > >the nice thing about Wikipedia is that anyone can help and edit the >contents. I'm sure some of the members of this list can help it a lot. As Joe pointed out, this type of collaborative effort can be wonderful. The one major drawback to which he alluded is that without an editor it is difficult to separate the wheat from the chaff. I have seen wikipedia where many people with a little knowledge on a subject share all of the errors that they mutually believe. That kind of precess is not, in my opinion, a contribution to knowledge. Best of luck in this endeavor. I hope that everyone takes it seriously. J. F. Schwaller John F. Schwaller Vice Chancellor for Academic Affairs and Dean 315 Behmler Hall University of Minnesota, Morris 600 E 4th Street Morris, MN 56267 320-589-6015 FAX 320-589-6399 schwallr at mrs.umn.edu From idiez at MAC.COM Wed Mar 24 04:12:40 2004 From: idiez at MAC.COM (idiez at MAC.COM) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 22:12:40 -0600 Subject: double auxiliary verb Message-ID: Here's something I had never seen before: a double auxiliary verb. It's from Veracruz. "quimontontinentoqueh tlalli", "they have gone around piling up dirt" You start with the Spanish "[a]montonar", "to pile things up", and add the specific object prefix "-qui", and then the auxiliary verb "nemi" with the ligature, "-ti". This gives you, "they go around piling up dirt ("tlalli"). Then you put that whole thing in its combining form by chopping off the last vowel of nemi: "quimontontinen-", and add the second auxiliary verb "oc" (a preterite as present tense verb) with another ligature "-t[i]", meaning to have done something. It is conjugated in the third person plural. I also want to say that our website has been down for about two weeks now, and nobody can figure out how to get it back up. An alternate address in the meantime is http://homepage.mac.com/idiez/idiezweb John Sullivan, Ph.D. Profesor de lengua y cultura nahua Unidad Acad?mica de Idiomas Universidad Aut?noma de Zacatecas Director Instituto de Docencia e Investigaci?n Etnol?gica de Zacatecas, A.C. Francisco Garc?a Salinas 604 Colonia CNOP Zacatecas, Zac. 98053 M?xico Oficina: +52 (492) 768-6048 Celular (desde M?xico): 044 (492) 544-5985 Celular (desde el extranjero) +52 (492) 544-5985 idiez at mac.com www.idiez.org.mx From campbel at INDIANA.EDU Wed Mar 24 06:31:04 2004 From: campbel at INDIANA.EDU (r. joe campbell) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 01:31:04 -0500 Subject: double auxiliary verb In-Reply-To: <7DC67BC2-7D49-11D8-BA63-003065C46A4A@mac.com> Message-ID: John, Your double auxiliary verb is double cool -- embedding a borrowing *and* doubling the auxiliary. I checked my notes and found these marked double auxiliaries from Molina: nicochtipilcatoc dormir (con) la cabeza colgada. 1555 nixtlapachonotihuetzi prostrarse por tierra. 1571 S/N and these from the Florentine Codex: necuicuitihuechotoc (not glossed yet) xonmocuicuitihuetzto (not glossed yet) quehuatiquetztihui (not glossed yet) mehuatiquetztiuh (not glossed yet) Since you are working with the living language and not a fixed body of data, you have the possibility of finding others and even probing at what your friends find acceptable. Maybe you'll find a triple!!! Saludos, Joe On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 idiez at MAC.COM wrote: > Here's something I had never seen before: a double auxiliary verb. It's > from Veracruz. > "quimontontinentoqueh tlalli", "they have gone around piling up dirt" > You start with the Spanish "[a]montonar", "to pile things up", and add > the specific object prefix "-qui", and then the auxiliary verb "nemi" > with the ligature, "-ti". This gives you, "they go around piling up > dirt ("tlalli"). Then you put that whole thing in its combining form by > chopping off the last vowel of nemi: "quimontontinen-", and add the > second auxiliary verb "oc" (a preterite as present tense verb) with > another ligature "-t[i]", meaning to have done something. It is > conjugated in the third person plural. > From campbel at INDIANA.EDU Wed Mar 24 14:23:23 2004 From: campbel at INDIANA.EDU (r. joe campbell) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 09:23:23 -0500 Subject: double auxiliary verb In-Reply-To: <7DC67BC2-7D49-11D8-BA63-003065C46A4A@mac.com> Message-ID: As the astute and wary have undoubtedly already noticed, "nixtlapachonotihuetzi" does not have a double auxiliary. (Note, however, that it *does* have two of the verbs which act as matrix verbs in "auxiliary" constructions.) |8-) Y'all can only imagine my horror this morning when I re-read what I had sent last night. I hope that my carelessness hasn't caused anyone to run out this morning and invest in stock in a double-auxiliary dot.com company... Joe From a.appleyard at BTINTERNET.COM Fri Mar 26 07:34:36 2004 From: a.appleyard at BTINTERNET.COM (=?iso-8859-1?q?ANTHONY=20APPLEYARD?=) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 07:34:36 +0000 Subject: Cuetzalan In-Reply-To: Message-ID: A recent underwater cave rescue has put the place name Cuetzalan (in Puebla state) in the news. What does the name come from? Is it correctly [Cuetzalla_n]? My Nahuatl to English dictionary contains [quetzalli] but not [cuetzalli]. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mrharri1 at FACSTAFF.WISC.EDU Fri Mar 26 16:16:03 2004 From: mrharri1 at FACSTAFF.WISC.EDU (MAX R HARRIS) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 10:16:03 -0600 Subject: Cuetzalan Message-ID: In Cuetzalan, in 1988, I picked up a little book by Antonio Santiago Aguilar Lara, called Tradicion: Ensayo historico y social del legendario pueblo de Quetzalan, which includes a lengthy digression (pp. 31-80) on the origin of the town's name. The author idientifies eight different theories, but finally settles on the most straightforward, that Cuetzalan is a corruption of Quetzalan, which, he claims, is how the name of the town is spelled in surviving documents from 1555 to 1863, and that it refers to the quetzal bird, with a possible secondary reference to the goddess Xochiquetzal. I have no way of assessing this theory, but, if you want to pursue your question further, Aguilar Lara's book (if you can find a copy) would be one place to start. Best wishes, Max Max Harris, Executive Director Wisconsin Humanities Council 222 South Bedford Street, Suite F Madison, WI 53703 Tel: 608/262-0706 Fax: 608/263-7970 ----- Original Message ----- From: ANTHONY APPLEYARD Date: Friday, March 26, 2004 1:34 am Subject: Cuetzalan > > A recent underwater cave rescue has put the place name Cuetzalan > (in Puebla state) in the news. What does the name come from? Is it > correctly [Cuetzalla_n]? My Nahuatl to English dictionary contains > [quetzalli] but not [cuetzalli]. > From donpuche at HOTMAIL.COM Sat Mar 27 00:29:42 2004 From: donpuche at HOTMAIL.COM (armando T.) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 18:29:42 -0600 Subject: word Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: