From Ian.Mursell at BTINTERNET.COM Sat May 8 11:53:30 2004 From: Ian.Mursell at BTINTERNET.COM (Ian Mursell) Date: Sat, 8 May 2004 12:53:30 +0100 Subject: Az: Current Info, Excavations, etc In-Reply-To: <008101c42893$f4f02960$3281df80@uoregon.edu> Message-ID: Hi Stephanie. I wanted to write again, after you kindly provided feedback on the little Náhuatl pronunciation page of our educational website on the Aztecs, for two reasons:- 1 to thank you again for the feedback, and for the link to the Náhuatl.info pages, which could well be really useful for school children here. I've now visited the site and they look like an excellent group to collaborate with 2 to ask if it might be possible to access the Virtual Mesoamerican Archive site, that you referred to in the Wired Humanities Project posting some weeks ago. Carelessly I've only just realised it's the same Stephanie Wood! I was impressed by the scope of the project you outlined in your message to the Nahuatl e-group, and have been meaning since then to ask if we could collaborate in any way on this. It sounds a most valuable and long overdue resource. One of my own particular interests Is in Aztec music (I'm giving a lecture/demonstration on this at the Latin American Music Seminar at the Institute of Latin American Studies in London in a couple of weeks time). It goes without saying that your Archive would be invaluable in researching and preparing this topic, and I'm perfectly happy in the future to offer what resources I have here to your wider community. For example, I'm building up what I hope is a useful collection of images from the codices of musical practice in pre-Columbian Mexico, some of which I plan to add to our website. Well, I hope we can support each other's work in the future and also that Graciela and I will have a chance to meet you before long! Kind regards, Ian Ian Mursell Director Mexicolore 28 Warriner Gardens London SW11 4EB, U.K. Tel: +44 (0) 20 7622 9577 Fax: +44 (0) 20 7498 3643 www.mexicolore.co.uk Ian.Mursell at btinternet.com Bringing Mexico and the Aztecs to life in schools and museums throughout England - and now via the internet! - since 1980 From cihuatl at EARTHLINK.NET Wed May 19 15:05:51 2004 From: cihuatl at EARTHLINK.NET (Joanna M. Sanchez) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 11:05:51 -0400 Subject: cuacholote Message-ID: I am analyzing the Mexican Spanish slang term cuacholote, which refers to a clumsy or untalented person, for its Nahuatl root. Would it be cuauh-xeloa, or should cua-xolotl be considered ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robert at COATLI.COM Wed May 19 18:26:23 2004 From: robert at COATLI.COM (robert barkaloff) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 11:26:23 -0700 Subject: cuacholote In-Reply-To: <001a01c43db2$cefbd4a0$d3a05b40@o9l8c6> Message-ID: Joanna M. Sanchez wrote: > I am analyzing the Mexican Spanish slang term /cuacholote/, which > refers to a clumsy or untalented person, for its Nahuatl root. Would > it be /cuauh-xeloa/, or should /cua-xolotl/ be considered /?/ Just a note: I grew-up hearing this word at me -- thank's mom. I do remember the pronounciation as "cua-cha-lote." This may be a regional variation, though I have never heard the word pronounced as "cua-cho-lote." I also assumed it to be "cuah-xolotl," though I'm not sure of it's derivation. In the context which I understood the word, it refers to someone who is sloppy or unkempt in appearance or in their doings. Robert From MBOLIVAR at SAN.RR.COM Wed May 19 18:42:28 2004 From: MBOLIVAR at SAN.RR.COM (Maria) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 11:42:28 -0700 Subject: cuacholote In-Reply-To: <40ABA6CF.6010707@coatli.com> Message-ID: It is cuachalote and it does not quite mean clumsy. It means untidy, badly dressed, dirty. Cuachalote is often used to diminish someone who concducts himself or herself in a careless manner. Mira nomás qué cuachalote is also used as the equivalent of fachoso or dejado... Maria "We don´t see things as they are, We see things as we are." Anais Nin Dr. María D. Bolívar MBOLIVAR at san.rr.com -----Original Message----- From: Nahua language and culture discussion [mailto:NAHUAT-L at LISTS.UMN.EDU] On Behalf Of robert barkaloff Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 11:26 AM To: NAHUAT-L at LISTS.UMN.EDU Subject: Re: cuacholote Joanna M. Sanchez wrote: > I am analyzing the Mexican Spanish slang term /cuacholote/, which > refers to a clumsy or untalented person, for its Nahuatl root. Would > it be /cuauh-xeloa/, or should /cua-xolotl/ be considered /?/ Just a note: I grew-up hearing this word at me -- thank's mom. I do remember the pronounciation as "cua-cha-lote." This may be a regional variation, though I have never heard the word pronounced as "cua-cho-lote." I also assumed it to be "cuah-xolotl," though I'm not sure of it's derivation. In the context which I understood the word, it refers to someone who is sloppy or unkempt in appearance or in their doings. Robert From MBOLIVAR at SAN.RR.COM Wed May 19 18:46:30 2004 From: MBOLIVAR at SAN.RR.COM (Maria) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 11:46:30 -0700 Subject: cuacholote In-Reply-To: <40ABA6CF.6010707@coatli.com> Message-ID: If you can read Spanish, Germán Dehesa has a funny text of cuachalotes, here: http://www.terra.com.mx/deportes/articulo/041740/ I am referring, of course, to the modern use of cuachalote, the one I heard growing up. Maria "We don´t see things as they are, We see things as we are." Anais Nin Dr. María D. Bolívar MBOLIVAR at san.rr.com -----Original Message----- From: Nahua language and culture discussion [mailto:NAHUAT-L at LISTS.UMN.EDU] On Behalf Of robert barkaloff Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 11:26 AM To: NAHUAT-L at LISTS.UMN.EDU Subject: Re: cuacholote Joanna M. Sanchez wrote: > I am analyzing the Mexican Spanish slang term /cuacholote/, which > refers to a clumsy or untalented person, for its Nahuatl root. Would > it be /cuauh-xeloa/, or should /cua-xolotl/ be considered /?/ Just a note: I grew-up hearing this word at me -- thank's mom. I do remember the pronounciation as "cua-cha-lote." This may be a regional variation, though I have never heard the word pronounced as "cua-cho-lote." I also assumed it to be "cuah-xolotl," though I'm not sure of it's derivation. In the context which I understood the word, it refers to someone who is sloppy or unkempt in appearance or in their doings. Robert From tonantzn at CHORUS.NET Wed May 19 19:14:17 2004 From: tonantzn at CHORUS.NET (Juan Alvarez Cuauhtemoc) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 14:14:17 -0500 Subject: cuacholote Message-ID: As a Chicano growing up in a bordertown I oftentimes heard the word cua-cha-lote, not cua-cho-lote. But the context and meaning was different than what Robert proposes. Perhaps this has to do with regional variations as he said. In any case, cua-cha-lote was a "bad" word. For example, the word, "cua-cha" in cua-cha-lote meant "caca" (shit). So, if someone said "no vales cuacha." It was the equivalent of saying "you are not worth shit." So, if someone called another "cua-cha-lote" it was, depending on the context, either an insult or a cariñito. Insult: "piece of shit." Cariñito: "Este cago todo a su padre, mi cua-cha-lotito." ("He completely took after his father, my little piece of shit.") In the nahuatlized mestizo background where I come from we inherited the use of inverted speech. We, for example, used "papacito" to refer to its opposite -a little boy. Or hombre grande to refer to a small son. When used with cariño even the word "caca" meant its opposite -beauty. So, to call someone with cariño -mi cua-cha-lotito was, in essence, to call him the opposite, a handsome boy. Juan Alvarez Cuauhtemoc ----- Original Message ----- From: "robert barkaloff" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 1:26 PM Subject: Re: cuacholote > Joanna M. Sanchez wrote: > > > I am analyzing the Mexican Spanish slang term /cuacholote/, which > > refers to a clumsy or untalented person, for its Nahuatl root. Would > > it be /cuauh-xeloa/, or should /cua-xolotl/ be considered /?/ > > Just a note: I grew-up hearing this word at me -- thank's mom. I do > remember the pronounciation as "cua-cha-lote." This may be a regional > variation, though I have never heard the word pronounced as > "cua-cho-lote." I also assumed it to be "cuah-xolotl," though I'm not > sure of it's derivation. In the context which I understood the word, it > refers to someone who is sloppy or unkempt in appearance or in their doings. > > Robert From MBOLIVAR at SAN.RR.COM Wed May 19 19:49:56 2004 From: MBOLIVAR at SAN.RR.COM (Maria) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 12:49:56 -0700 Subject: cuacholote In-Reply-To: <002601c43dd5$7bcbaad0$c5ee0b45@JuanAlvarez> Message-ID: It is cuachalote and it does not quite mean clumsy. It means untidy, badly dressed, dirty. Cuachalote is often used to diminish someone who conducts himself or herself in a carefree manner. Mira nomás qué cuachalote is also used as the equivalent of fachoso or dejado... If you can read Spanish, Germán Dehesa has a funny text of cuachalotes, here: http://www.terra.com.mx/deportes/articulo/041740/ http://www.jergasdehablahispana.org/mexico.htm I am referring, of course, to the modern use of cuachalote, the one I heard growing up. You can also check the jerga dictionary on line at http://www.jergasdehablahispana.org/mexico.htm cuachalote: (adj.) desaliñado, mal vestido. Ahí andaba Teresa por la casa, toda cuachalota, cuando de repente llegó su futura suegra. María Bolívar "We don´t see things as they are, We see things as we are." Anais Nin Dr. María D. Bolívar MBOLIVAR at san.rr.com -----Original Message----- From: Nahua language and culture discussion [mailto:NAHUAT-L at LISTS.UMN.EDU] On Behalf Of Juan Alvarez Cuauhtemoc Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 12:14 PM To: NAHUAT-L at LISTS.UMN.EDU Subject: Re: cuacholote As a Chicano growing up in a bordertown I oftentimes heard the word cua-cha-lote, not cua-cho-lote. But the context and meaning was different than what Robert proposes. Perhaps this has to do with regional variations as he said. In any case, cua-cha-lote was a "bad" word. For example, the word, "cua-cha" in cua-cha-lote meant "caca" (shit). So, if someone said "no vales cuacha." It was the equivalent of saying "you are not worth shit." So, if someone called another "cua-cha-lote" it was, depending on the context, either an insult or a cariñito. Insult: "piece of shit." Cariñito: "Este cago todo a su padre, mi cua-cha-lotito." ("He completely took after his father, my little piece of shit.") In the nahuatlized mestizo background where I come from we inherited the use of inverted speech. We, for example, used "papacito" to refer to its opposite -a little boy. Or hombre grande to refer to a small son. When used with cariño even the word "caca" meant its opposite -beauty. So, to call someone with cariño -mi cua-cha-lotito was, in essence, to call him the opposite, a handsome boy. Juan Alvarez Cuauhtemoc ----- Original Message ----- From: "robert barkaloff" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 1:26 PM Subject: Re: cuacholote > Joanna M. Sanchez wrote: > > > I am analyzing the Mexican Spanish slang term /cuacholote/, which > > refers to a clumsy or untalented person, for its Nahuatl root. Would > > it be /cuauh-xeloa/, or should /cua-xolotl/ be considered /?/ > > Just a note: I grew-up hearing this word at me -- thank's mom. I do > remember the pronounciation as "cua-cha-lote." This may be a regional > variation, though I have never heard the word pronounced as > "cua-cho-lote." I also assumed it to be "cuah-xolotl," though I'm not > sure of it's derivation. In the context which I understood the word, it > refers to someone who is sloppy or unkempt in appearance or in their doings. > > Robert From cihuatl at EARTHLINK.NET Wed May 19 21:06:23 2004 From: cihuatl at EARTHLINK.NET (Joanna M. Sanchez) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 17:06:23 -0400 Subject: cuacholote Message-ID: Yes, I think I must have heard it as a regional variant in Jalisco, near Colima. And it was normally used when something one did went badly or sloppily. Thanks very much. I still wish to explore the Nahautl etymology. Joanna ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maria" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 3:49 PM Subject: Re: cuacholote It is cuachalote and it does not quite mean clumsy. It means untidy, badly dressed, dirty. Cuachalote is often used to diminish someone who conducts himself or herself in a carefree manner. Mira nomás qué cuachalote is also used as the equivalent of fachoso or dejado... If you can read Spanish, Germán Dehesa has a funny text of cuachalotes, here: http://www.terra.com.mx/deportes/articulo/041740/ http://www.jergasdehablahispana.org/mexico.htm I am referring, of course, to the modern use of cuachalote, the one I heard growing up. You can also check the jerga dictionary on line at http://www.jergasdehablahispana.org/mexico.htm cuachalote: (adj.) desaliñado, mal vestido. Ahí andaba Teresa por la casa, toda cuachalota, cuando de repente llegó su futura suegra. María Bolívar "We don´t see things as they are, We see things as we are." Anais Nin Dr. María D. Bolívar MBOLIVAR at san.rr.com -----Original Message----- From: Nahua language and culture discussion [mailto:NAHUAT-L at LISTS.UMN.EDU] On Behalf Of Juan Alvarez Cuauhtemoc Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 12:14 PM To: NAHUAT-L at LISTS.UMN.EDU Subject: Re: cuacholote As a Chicano growing up in a bordertown I oftentimes heard the word cua-cha-lote, not cua-cho-lote. But the context and meaning was different than what Robert proposes. Perhaps this has to do with regional variations as he said. In any case, cua-cha-lote was a "bad" word. For example, the word, "cua-cha" in cua-cha-lote meant "caca" (shit). So, if someone said "no vales cuacha." It was the equivalent of saying "you are not worth shit." So, if someone called another "cua-cha-lote" it was, depending on the context, either an insult or a cariñito. Insult: "piece of shit." Cariñito: "Este cago todo a su padre, mi cua-cha-lotito." ("He completely took after his father, my little piece of shit.") In the nahuatlized mestizo background where I come from we inherited the use of inverted speech. We, for example, used "papacito" to refer to its opposite -a little boy. Or hombre grande to refer to a small son. When used with cariño even the word "caca" meant its opposite -beauty. So, to call someone with cariño -mi cua-cha-lotito was, in essence, to call him the opposite, a handsome boy. Juan Alvarez Cuauhtemoc ----- Original Message ----- From: "robert barkaloff" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 1:26 PM Subject: Re: cuacholote > Joanna M. Sanchez wrote: > > > I am analyzing the Mexican Spanish slang term /cuacholote/, which > > refers to a clumsy or untalented person, for its Nahuatl root. Would > > it be /cuauh-xeloa/, or should /cua-xolotl/ be considered /?/ > > Just a note: I grew-up hearing this word at me -- thank's mom. I do > remember the pronounciation as "cua-cha-lote." This may be a regional > variation, though I have never heard the word pronounced as > "cua-cho-lote." I also assumed it to be "cuah-xolotl," though I'm not > sure of it's derivation. In the context which I understood the word, it > refers to someone who is sloppy or unkempt in appearance or in their doings. > > Robert From mmontcha at OREGONVOS.NET Wed May 19 21:48:18 2004 From: mmontcha at OREGONVOS.NET (Matthew Montchalin) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 14:48:18 -0700 Subject: cuacholote In-Reply-To: <002601c43dd5$7bcbaad0$c5ee0b45@JuanAlvarez> Message-ID: Juan Alvarez Cuauhtemoc wrote: |As a Chicano growing up in a bordertown I oftentimes heard the word |cua-cha-lote, not cua-cho-lote. But the context and meaning was different |than what Robert proposes. Perhaps this has to do with regional variations |as he said. In any case, cua-cha-lote was a "bad" word. For example, the |word, "cua-cha" in cua-cha-lote meant "caca" (shit). So cuacha (kwacha) might denote the Spanish 'caca?' If Nahuatl imported this root from Spanish, did it happen rather late in the history of the language? From dfrye at UMICH.EDU Wed May 19 22:08:59 2004 From: dfrye at UMICH.EDU (Frye, David) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 18:08:59 -0400 Subject: cuacholote Message-ID: >From Santamaria's Diccionario de mexicanismos: Cuachalote, cuachalota. Individuo, persona descuidada en el vestido y en el aseo corporal. (Sorry I can't help with the etymology.) For cuacha all by itself, Santamaria has: Cuacha. (Voz tarasca.) Vulgarmente, en el noroeste del pais, mierda de gallina. (Perhaps cuacholote, with an 'o,' is a variant of guajolote, turkey; also, fool, bobo, necio.) From butlerpe at PURDUE.EDU Thu May 20 00:13:34 2004 From: butlerpe at PURDUE.EDU (butlerpe at PURDUE.EDU) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 19:13:34 -0500 Subject: Cuacha Message-ID: I never write anything on this list but I thought I would on this one. In my family, cuacha means "shit" too. For instance, there's a lot of little kids in our family and they always expect presents when we go anywhere. They always ask "what did you get me?" The answer most of the time is "cuacha." My family is from Nuevo Leon, so maybe cuacha as "shit" is a northern variation. As far as using it to describe a mess or untidy thing, we would use it if the mess was like rotten food or muddy stuff or something disgusting, not just a pile of dirty clothes. Plus, when someone has diarrhea the term we use is "cuacha." It sounds nicer than "chorro." From mexica at LYCOS.ES Thu May 20 04:44:13 2004 From: mexica at LYCOS.ES (Netza Latrans) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 04:44:13 GMT Subject: UNSUSCRIBE mexica@lycos.es Message-ID: UNSUSCRIBE mexica at lycos.es ______________________________________________________ ¿Echas de menos tus días de cole? Comparte tus aventuras de aquellos años en http://antiguosalumnos.lycos.es From g_castelan at HOTMAIL.COM Thu May 20 04:56:58 2004 From: g_castelan at HOTMAIL.COM (Gabriel Castelan) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 23:56:58 -0500 Subject: cuacholote Message-ID: Hi.. I am Mexican from the center (nahuatl zone) of the country... Here we use "cuachalote" and just like Frye says: "Cuachalote, cuachalota. Individuo, persona descuidada en el vestido y en el aseo corporal." I think cuacholote is just the same word but with a little fonetic change because of regionalism. I know some one who says "librillo" instead of "lebrillo" but he refers to the same thing: a little container to get water in order to wash your hands. Cuacha is the hen's excrement. Axcan quema: Usualy we use the word as an adjective for describing careless dressed people just like "fachoso", "pandroso", "desgargolado", "cochino", "andrajoso", etc.. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Juan Alvarez Cuauhtemoc" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 2:14 PM Subject: Re: cuacholote > As a Chicano growing up in a bordertown I oftentimes heard the word > cua-cha-lote, not cua-cho-lote. But the context and meaning was different > than what Robert proposes. Perhaps this has to do with regional variations > as he said. In any case, cua-cha-lote was a "bad" word. For example, the > word, "cua-cha" in cua-cha-lote meant "caca" (shit). So, if someone said > "no vales cuacha." It was the equivalent of saying "you are not worth > shit." So, if someone called another "cua-cha-lote" it was, depending on > the context, either an insult or a cariñito. Insult: "piece of shit." > Cariñito: "Este cago todo a su padre, mi cua-cha-lotito." ("He completely > took after his father, my little piece of shit.") In the nahuatlized > mestizo background where I come from we inherited the use of inverted > speech. We, for example, used "papacito" to refer to its opposite -a little > boy. Or hombre grande to refer to a small son. When used with cariño even > the word "caca" meant its opposite -beauty. So, to call someone with > cariño -mi cua-cha-lotito was, in essence, to call him the opposite, a > handsome boy. > > > Juan Alvarez Cuauhtemoc > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "robert barkaloff" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 1:26 PM > Subject: Re: cuacholote > > > > Joanna M. Sanchez wrote: > > > > > I am analyzing the Mexican Spanish slang term /cuacholote/, which > > > refers to a clumsy or untalented person, for its Nahuatl root. Would > > > it be /cuauh-xeloa/, or should /cua-xolotl/ be considered /?/ > > > > Just a note: I grew-up hearing this word at me -- thank's mom. I do > > remember the pronounciation as "cua-cha-lote." This may be a regional > > variation, though I have never heard the word pronounced as > > "cua-cho-lote." I also assumed it to be "cuah-xolotl," though I'm not > > sure of it's derivation. In the context which I understood the word, it > > refers to someone who is sloppy or unkempt in appearance or in their > doings. > > > > Robert > From CHMuths at AOL.COM Thu May 20 07:21:35 2004 From: CHMuths at AOL.COM (CHMuths at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 03:21:35 EDT Subject: Sunscribe mexica@lycos.es Message-ID: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mmontcha at OREGONVOS.NET Fri May 21 00:19:32 2004 From: mmontcha at OREGONVOS.NET (Matthew Montchalin) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 17:19:32 -0700 Subject: Cuacha In-Reply-To: <1085012014.40abf82e70086@webmail.purdue.edu> Message-ID: butlerpe at PURDUE.EDU wrote: |Subject: Cuacha | |I never write anything on this list but I thought I would on this one. |In my family, cuacha means "shit" too. Okay, but is it really a technical 'scientific' sort of word (indicating a European origin, I will take it) or is it more of a 'taboo' sort of word (indicating some kind of original Nahuatl sort of word). Can you make a guess about its etymology? If you have studied Classical Latin, you naturally know about stercus and fimum, neither of which have the slightest similarity to the Spanish 'caca.' Sometimes two words tend to merge if their pronunciation is similar. (For instance, compare the improbable English 'meld' from German 'meld' "announce" and English 'melt' "mush together.") Could the Nawatl kwacha represent a fusion of some kind of early mesoamerican (?) root with a taboo word in Mediaeval Spanish? From campbel at INDIANA.EDU Fri May 21 02:16:10 2004 From: campbel at INDIANA.EDU (r. joe campbell) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 21:16:10 -0500 Subject: cuacholote In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Francisco Santamari'a, Diccionario de mejicanismos, says, "Individuo, persona descuidada en el vestido y en el aseo corporal." * * * * * * * * * * * I have visited and traveled in Mexico (mainly Jalisco, Morelos, Guerrero, and Puebla) since 1959 -- and I have heard it used with some frequency. On the other hand, a friend of mine who grew up in Mexico City (to adulthood) just told me today that he had never heard the word. Hmmm... I guess it could be related to our respective dress; I probably attract the use of a few other words that he doesn't. >8( * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * I have checked all three Molina dictionaries and the Florentine Codex for attractive sources and I've come up dry. ...substrings like: cuacha... cuacho... cuaxa... cuaxo... ...chalo ...xalo Joe From micc2 at COX.NET Fri May 21 04:12:20 2004 From: micc2 at COX.NET (micc2) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 21:12:20 -0700 Subject: Cuacha In-Reply-To: Message-ID: "If you have studied Classical Latin,you naturally know about stercus and fimum, neither of which have the slightest similarity to the Spanish 'caca.'" However we do use the word "estierco" for cow manure. Matthew Montchalin wrote: >butlerpe at PURDUE.EDU wrote: >|Subject: Cuacha >| >|I never write anything on this list but I thought I would on this one. >|In my family, cuacha means "shit" too. > >Okay, but is it really a technical 'scientific' sort of word (indicating >a European origin, I will take it) or is it more of a 'taboo' sort of >word (indicating some kind of original Nahuatl sort of word). Can you >make a guess about its etymology? If you have studied Classical Latin, >you naturally know about stercus and fimum, neither of which have the >slightest similarity to the Spanish 'caca.' Sometimes two words tend >to merge if their pronunciation is similar. (For instance, compare >the improbable English 'meld' from German 'meld' "announce" and English >'melt' "mush together.") > >Could the Nawatl kwacha represent a fusion of some kind of early >mesoamerican (?) root with a taboo word in Mediaeval Spanish? > > > From mmontcha at OREGONVOS.NET Fri May 21 04:18:13 2004 From: mmontcha at OREGONVOS.NET (Matthew Montchalin) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 21:18:13 -0700 Subject: Cuacha In-Reply-To: <1085012014.40abf82e70086@webmail.purdue.edu> Message-ID: |I never write anything on this list but I thought I would on this one. In my |family, cuacha means "shit" too. For instance, there's a lot of little kids in |our family and they always expect presents when we go anywhere. They always |ask "what did you get me?" The answer most of the time is "cuacha." My family |is from Nuevo Leon, so maybe cuacha as "shit" is a northern variation. As far |as using it to describe a mess or untidy thing, we would use it if the mess was |like rotten food or muddy stuff or something disgusting, not just a pile of |dirty clothes. Plus, when someone has diarrhea the term we use is "cuacha." |It sounds nicer than "chorro." Could kwacha have been imported into Nawatl from Mediaeval Spanish 'quassa' (dating to the time of Cortez, I guess), and ultimately from Late Latin quattior (and through hundreds of years of Mediaeval Spanish filtering it and changing it somehow)? From mmontcha at OREGONVOS.NET Fri May 21 04:28:12 2004 From: mmontcha at OREGONVOS.NET (Matthew Montchalin) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 21:28:12 -0700 Subject: Cuacha In-Reply-To: <40AD81A4.4020102@cox.net> Message-ID: micc2 wrote: |"If you have studied Classical Latin, you naturally know about stercus |and fimum, neither of which have the slightest similarity to the Spanish |'caca.'" | |However we do use the word "estierco" for cow manure. Ah, good to learn that. (Certo alienus vel ignarus hispanicae linguae sum, nimirum Hispanicam nescio.) But can you suggest an etymology for kwacha? I am grasping at straws when I suggest things like Latin quatio (or its frequentative form quasso). I would only observe that the consonant found in the middle can shift a little, as if palatalizing, perhaps even turn into ch. From a.appleyard at BTINTERNET.COM Fri May 21 05:33:11 2004 From: a.appleyard at BTINTERNET.COM (=?iso-8859-1?q?ANTHONY=20APPLEYARD?=) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 06:33:11 +0100 Subject: Cuacha In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Matthew Montchalin wrote: > ... Can you make a guess about its etymology? If you have studied Classical Latin, > you naturally know about stercus and fimum, ... And Latin [merda] = French [merde[ = "excrement". With Spanish [caca] = "excrement", compare Latin [caccare] = "defaecate", Greek [kakke_] = "excrement", [kakos] = "bad". Perhaps that apparent family of words derives from a child's inarticulate exclamation of disgust [kakakakaka...]. That sort of natural function and the place where it is performed attracts euphemisms and strange jocular expressions wherever men live. Compare Nahuatl [cuitlatl] = "excrement" and "bottom"; Swahili [choo] and CB radio jargon [10-100] = "excrement" and "lavatory". -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From butlerpe at PURDUE.EDU Fri May 21 05:44:26 2004 From: butlerpe at PURDUE.EDU (butlerpe at PURDUE.EDU) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 00:44:26 -0500 Subject: Cuacha In-Reply-To: Message-ID: It seems like you know quite a bit about Latin and since Spanish comes from Latin, at least that's what I thought but I am no linguist, maybe you have heard the term "cuacha" used in Spain? I met a few people from Spain in Mexico before and they had never heard the term. But, then again, some of my best friends are from Guanajuato and they've never heard it either. Here is something that just came to mind. I don't know how politically correct everyone is going to find this but it's part of the reality of Mexicans and Mexican Americans alike. The only people I have heard use this word are my relatives, and my family all has dark skin and "el aspeto indigena." In other words, I think my family has a lot of Indian blood, but how much or from where I don't know. My friends that I mentioned from Guanajuato are blanquitas, and their mother told me in a conversation once that she was proud that they didn't look like "indios," and, when her slightly darker skinned daughter was brought up, she commented on how she felt bad for her since she was more morena. So, I would be inclined to think "cuacha" has its roots in an indigenous language, even if it is not nahuatl. Quoting Matthew Montchalin : > micc2 wrote: > |"If you have studied Classical Latin, you naturally know about stercus > |and fimum, neither of which have the slightest similarity to the Spanish > |'caca.'" > | > |However we do use the word "estierco" for cow manure. > > Ah, good to learn that. (Certo alienus vel ignarus hispanicae linguae > sum, nimirum Hispanicam nescio.) > > But can you suggest an etymology for kwacha? I am grasping at straws > when I suggest things like Latin quatio (or its frequentative form > quasso). I would only observe that the consonant found in the middle > can shift a little, as if palatalizing, perhaps even turn into ch. > From dfrye at UMICH.EDU Fri May 21 14:05:23 2004 From: dfrye at UMICH.EDU (Frye, David) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 10:05:23 -0400 Subject: Cuacha Message-ID: Francisco J. Santamaria was a great lexicographer but not much of an etymologist; still, it bears repeating that his dictionary entry for "cuacha" (defining it as "mierda de gallina," chickenshit) claims that it is "voz tar." i.e. a term from Tarasco or Purepecha. He also notes that it is used in the North West of the country. It is also worth recalling that Nahuatl is an important language, but hardly the only indigenous language, even in central Mexico (and most of these languages are unrelated to one another). For "caca," Corominas's Diccionario etimologico notes a first occurence in print from 1517 and says it is a "Voz de creacion expresiva procedente del lenguaje infantil," i.e. baby talk, which makes sense. Linguists have noted that the common first words used by infants and small children, especially words for mother (mama, nana, etc) and father (papa, dada, tata, etc.) tend to use the consonants and vowels that are the easiest for the developing child to pronounce, and to duplicate the first syllable. Caca (also pipi, poopoo, etc.) follows a similar pattern, so there is no reason to suppose it is anything other than 'baby talk.' Finally, if anyone is still hunting for an etymology of 'cuachalote,' I would again note that the common Mexican word for turkey, 'guajalote' comes from Nahuatl 'huehxo:lo:tl,' so I wouldn't be surprised if the 'cuach' part came from something that didn't sound exactly like 'cuach' in the original Nahuatl.... assuming that there *is* a Nahuatl original; because '-ote' is a pretty common intensifier ending in Spanish (gordote, buenote, etc.). On the other hand, 'cuachalote' doesn't appear to be used anywhere except Mexico City and point north, which does tend to point to a Nahuatl connection. David Frye From cihuatl at EARTHLINK.NET Fri May 21 15:06:02 2004 From: cihuatl at EARTHLINK.NET (Joanna M. Sanchez) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 11:06:02 -0400 Subject: Cuacha Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frye, David" To: Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 10:05 AM Subject: Re: Cuacha On the other hand, 'cuachalote' doesn't appear to be used anywhere except Mexico City and point north, which does tend to point to a Nahuatl connection. Sadly, other Nahua culture areas have been largely neglected by North American anthropology. The regional Nahuatl dialect of the multiethnic pre-contact border regions of Jalisco (Zapotiltic, Cd. Tuxpan, Teotitlan, Tamazula, Tonila), which appears to have been influenced by Popoluca, Chocho and P'urehpecha (perhaps explaining the variant 'cuacholote' pronunciation), is fast expiring but still very much present in colloquialisms. This, too, would also support a Nahuatl origin for the term. There is at present a government-inspired language revitalization movement in Tuxpan specifically, interestingly opposed by local purists who resent the Huasteca Nahuatl of instruction as an idiom foreign to the local form. Tuxpan was missionized by Juan de Padilla in 1530 shortly before his death in Quiriva, and never underwent recongregacion (see work on multiethnic identity by Jose Lameiras). In the 40's, the parish priest Sr. Cura Melquiades Ruvalcaba compiled a gramatica of the dialect, and J. Ma. Arreola a vocabulario, for those who might be interested. Joanna From schwallr at mrs.umn.edu Sat May 22 15:54:15 2004 From: schwallr at mrs.umn.edu (John F. Schwaller) Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 10:54:15 CDT Subject: UNSUSCRIBE mexica@lycos.es Message-ID: Favor de eviar este mensaje a la direccion listserv at lists.umn.edu su forma es unsub nahuat-l On 19 May 2004, Netza Latrans wrote: > UNSUSCRIBE mexica at lycos.es > > ______________________________________________________ > �Echas de menos tus d�as de cole? Comparte tus aventuras de aquellos a�os > en http://antiguosalumnos.lycos.es > > John F. Schwaller Vice Chancellor for Academic Affairs and Dean University of Minnesota, Morris 600 E. 4th Street Morris, MN 56267 320-589-6015 Fax 320-589-6399 From Norbert.Francis at NAU.EDU Sun May 23 00:32:52 2004 From: Norbert.Francis at NAU.EDU (Norbert Francis) Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 17:32:52 -0700 Subject: Call for papers - Indigenous languages Message-ID: Indigenous Languages 1-MAY-2005 C A L L F O R P A P E R S International Journal of Bilingual Education and Bilingualism (General Editor: Colin Baker, University of Wales at Bangor) SPECIAL ISSUE ON INDIGENOUS LANGUAGE BILINGUALISM Guest Editor: Norbert Francis, Northern Arizona University FOCUS Manuscripts are being requested for the upcoming special issue of the International Journal of Bilingual Education and Bilingualism on Indigenous Language Bilingualism. The focus of the special issue will be on research reports from field studies of bilingualism and language learning, aspects of language use and language competence, and research applied to both educational contexts and language development in general involving indigenous language communities and indigenous cultures. Papers should be reports on an actual empirical study, or a theoretical discussion or review of literature that references empirical work in the field. A broad range of theoretical and methodological approaches is to be included, from: educational linguistics, psycholinguistics, sociolinguistics, anthropological studies of language and education, and work from experimental, controlled-descriptive, and ethnographic approaches. Aspects of language development and language use focused on either the indigenous language or the national language or both, children and/or adults, in school and/or extracurricular-community settings are being solicited. SUGGESTED TOPICS Reports, reviews, and discussions related to the study of indigenous languages from the following areas of research are especially welcome: -Literacy learning (indigenous language and/or national language) -Written language, writing systems -Oral tradition -Narrative development -Analysis of narrative, ceremonial, poetic, pedagogic, oral history genres -Second language learning of indigenous and/or national languages -Language preservation/revitalization -First or second language attrition, language shift -Bilingual instructional models, indigenous languages in content area teaching -Classroom interaction, academic achievement -Cross-cultural communication, discourse analysis -Development of pragmatic knowledge -Grammatical aspects of bilingual development (phonology, morphology, syntax, semantics) -Bilingualism and cognition, metalinguistic awareness -Early childhood bilingualism, L1 acquisition of indigenous languages -Intergenerational transmission -Late L2 learning of indigenous languages -Research methodology, language assessment -Codeswitching, borrowing, mixing -Crosslinguistic influence, transfer, language processing -Language variation, language change Authors may, if they wish, send an abstract and introductory section of a proposed paper to the guest editor to receive initial observations regarding suitability for the special issue theme, final acceptance subject to a full review of the completed paper. SUBMISSION FORMAT Papers should be original, previously unpublished research, approximately 6,000 - 7,000 words, in English. Guidelines for authors can be found at http://www.multilingual-matters.com/ Then click: Journals info ý International Journal of Bilingual Education and Bilingualism ý General Guidelines for Authors of Journal Papers. Interested persons should feel free to send any inquiry related to this project to the guest editor. Send your submission (preferably as a Word file attached to an email message), prepared for anonymous review, to: norbert.francis at nau.edu or by post to: Norbert Francis College of Education, P.O. Box 5774 Northern Arizona University Flagstaff, Arizona 86001, USA Please indicate a return address and/or email, including institutional affiliation, of the primary author. An electronic version of your paper, if accepted, will be required. IMPORTANT DATES Paper submissions: May 1, 2005 Notification of acceptance: August 30, 2005 Final versions due: November 30, 2005 -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From micc2 at COX.NET Thu May 27 20:59:03 2004 From: micc2 at COX.NET (micc2) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 13:59:03 -0700 Subject: Cuacha In-Reply-To: Message-ID: No but maybe it is not a Nahuatl derivative? Matthew Montchalin wrote: >micc2 wrote: >|"If you have studied Classical Latin, you naturally know about stercus >|and fimum, neither of which have the slightest similarity to the Spanish >|'caca.'" >| >|However we do use the word "estierco" for cow manure. > >Ah, good to learn that. (Certo alienus vel ignarus hispanicae linguae >sum, nimirum Hispanicam nescio.) > >But can you suggest an etymology for kwacha? I am grasping at straws >when I suggest things like Latin quatio (or its frequentative form >quasso). I would only observe that the consonant found in the middle >can shift a little, as if palatalizing, perhaps even turn into ch. > > > From mmontcha at OREGONVOS.NET Thu May 27 22:19:49 2004 From: mmontcha at OREGONVOS.NET (Matthew Montchalin) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 15:19:49 -0700 Subject: Cuacha In-Reply-To: <40B65697.2060608@cox.net> Message-ID: micc2 top-posted: |No but maybe it is not a Nahuatl derivative? | |Matthew Montchalin wrote: | |>micc2 wrote: |>|"If you have studied Classical Latin, you naturally know about stercus |>|and fimum, neither of which have the slightest similarity to the Spanish |>|'caca.'" |>| |>|However we do use the word "estierco" for cow manure. |> |>Ah, good to learn that. (Certo alienus vel ignarus hispanicae linguae |>sum, nimirum Hispanicam nescio.) |> |>But can you suggest an etymology for kwacha? I am grasping at straws |>when I suggest things like Latin quatio (or its frequentative form |>quasso). I would only observe that the consonant found in the middle |>can shift a little, as if palatalizing, perhaps even turn into ch. And how would an objective person go about finding out whether kwacha or kwacho is of a native Nawatl origin, short of examining the leads where one finds them? I suggested the Latin participle quasso because it sounds kind of like kwacho, especially if something happens to the double 's' in the middle. As you seem to be implying, a host of European-sounding words don't match up, where else should one go to find an alternative? From a.appleyard at BTINTERNET.COM Thu May 27 22:57:44 2004 From: a.appleyard at BTINTERNET.COM (=?iso-8859-1?q?ANTHONY=20APPLEYARD?=) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 23:57:44 +0100 Subject: Cuacha In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Human and animal faeces (and related things such as toilets) get an astonishing variety of slang and euphemistic names with all sorts of strange literal meanings in English, and likely the same happened in Nahuatl-speaking Mexico. We may have to look far afield and a long way to find the answer here. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From micc2 at COX.NET Thu May 27 23:12:31 2004 From: micc2 at COX.NET (micc2) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 16:12:31 -0700 Subject: Cuacha In-Reply-To: Message-ID: ..." As you seem to be implying, a host of European-sounding words don't match up, where else should one go to find an alternative?..." I would imaging that any self respecting Criollo or peninsular would not use "slang" even if it were derived from latin. So where does that lead us? Maybe any number of indigenous languages? African languages brought by slaves? the possibilities are endless and exciting. Several years ago we had an interesting and informative discussion on the use of "ecole ecua" in Central Mexico.... turns out it is Italian!!!! mario Matthew Montchalin wrote: >micc2 top-posted: >|No but maybe it is not a Nahuatl derivative? >| >|Matthew Montchalin wrote: >| >|>micc2 wrote: >|>|"If you have studied Classical Latin, you naturally know about stercus >|>|and fimum, neither of which have the slightest similarity to the Spanish >|>|'caca.'" >|>| >|>|However we do use the word "estierco" for cow manure. >|> >|>Ah, good to learn that. (Certo alienus vel ignarus hispanicae linguae >|>sum, nimirum Hispanicam nescio.) >|> >|>But can you suggest an etymology for kwacha? I am grasping at straws >|>when I suggest things like Latin quatio (or its frequentative form >|>quasso). I would only observe that the consonant found in the middle >|>can shift a little, as if palatalizing, perhaps even turn into ch. > >And how would an objective person go about finding out whether kwacha >or kwacho is of a native Nawatl origin, short of examining the leads >where one finds them? I suggested the Latin participle quasso because >it sounds kind of like kwacho, especially if something happens to the >double 's' in the middle. > >As you seem to be implying, a host of European-sounding words don't match >up, where else should one go to find an alternative? > > > From cihuatl at EARTHLINK.NET Fri May 28 17:39:19 2004 From: cihuatl at EARTHLINK.NET (Joanna M. Sanchez) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 13:39:19 -0400 Subject: Cuacha Message-ID: It is certainly not unthinkable that a convergence between an original Nahuatl compound and an introduced term could have occurred over time by virtue of strong phonological and semantic similarity. And the widely reported cha- is perhaps a shift from xo-/zo- owing to stress on the following -lo- syllable. But I still cannot help but think that cuach[a/o]lote is derived from Nahuatl, with possible etymologies being: cua(i)tl + xolotl or cua(i)tl + zoloa Rather than reflecting an unhealthy indulgence of exoticism, an hypothesis of Nahua origin is reasonable for a number of reasons, not the least of which is the productivity of cua(i)tl when referring to one's sensibility (or lack thereof). Being dirty certainly had 'moral' connotations for the Nahua, a condition bearing on an individual's sensibility. 'Naturally' enough, terms for crazy or confused use cua(itl): cuatlapololiztli (madness) combines "head" with "lose; destroy." Yet more notably, cua(i)tl is used in cuatatapah, "disheveled person," with tatapahtli being "worn out fabric." Xolotl is also used in a variety of compounds (axolotl, mexolotl, xolochaui ), that can mean "doubled over; wrinkled" in a sense that implies physical deformity or dissaray, as precolumbian images of a ragged and deformed Xolotl bear out. Xolotl had a canine identity, and dogs were strongly associated with filth. This seems consistent with the modern meanings reported (dirty/disheveled). Further, xolopihtli (idiot; tonto) reinforces a reported semantic value, namely one untalented in either deed or appearance. Zoloa, "wear something out," and ihzoloa, "abase, mistreat," are words that can also be associated with Nahua conceptions of 'filth' (according to Burkhart's examination of tlahzolli, "garbage") by referring to matter that has lost its ordered structure. In any event, the word is widely used in Nahua regions of Jalisco, in addition to Mexico City and points north, further supportive of an indigenous origin. Joanna ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matthew Montchalin" To: Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 6:19 PM Subject: Re: Cuacha > micc2 top-posted: > |No but maybe it is not a Nahuatl derivative? > | > |Matthew Montchalin wrote: > | > |>micc2 wrote: > |>|"If you have studied Classical Latin, you naturally know about stercus > |>|and fimum, neither of which have the slightest similarity to the Spanish > |>|'caca.'" > |>| > |>|However we do use the word "estierco" for cow manure. > |> > |>Ah, good to learn that. (Certo alienus vel ignarus hispanicae linguae > |>sum, nimirum Hispanicam nescio.) > |> > |>But can you suggest an etymology for kwacha? I am grasping at straws > |>when I suggest things like Latin quatio (or its frequentative form > |>quasso). I would only observe that the consonant found in the middle > |>can shift a little, as if palatalizing, perhaps even turn into ch. > > And how would an objective person go about finding out whether kwacha > or kwacho is of a native Nawatl origin, short of examining the leads > where one finds them? I suggested the Latin participle quasso because > it sounds kind of like kwacho, especially if something happens to the > double 's' in the middle. > > As you seem to be implying, a host of European-sounding words don't match > up, where else should one go to find an alternative? From mdmorris at INDIANA.EDU Fri May 28 18:33:40 2004 From: mdmorris at INDIANA.EDU (Mark David Morris) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 13:33:40 -0500 Subject: Cuacha In-Reply-To: <001f01c444da$b6707880$a6a35b40@o9l8c6> Message-ID: Johanna and all, I don't have a Purepecha dictionary handy to check on the etymology of "cuacha" that David Frye cited from Santamaria, but given this term's association with Jalisco and the northwest, I don't think it is unlikely that it could be a hybrid of cuacha and xolotl. Most of the hybrids I know of are rooted in very early eras of Nahuatl's introduction into central Mesoamerica, but western Michoacan and Jalisco have had a different cultural-linguistic dynamic, one that was still in flux even in the postclassic and continued to be under colonial rule. I would think that some of the linguistic works on Jalisco and Michoacan, from Agustin de la Rosa, Davila Garibay etc. would give an idea whether there is a history of hybridization between Nahuatl, Purepecha and other languages in the region. At least calling a dirty kid a "filthy doll" makes more sense to me than anything Nahuatl roots alone suggests. best, Mark Morris ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ La muerte tiene permiso a todo MDM, PhD Candidate Dept. of History, Indiana Univ. From campbel at INDIANA.EDU Sat May 29 04:51:05 2004 From: campbel at INDIANA.EDU (r. joe campbell) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 23:51:05 -0500 Subject: Cuacha In-Reply-To: <001f01c444da$b6707880$a6a35b40@o9l8c6> Message-ID: Joanna, I don't know why people are attracted to the study of language morphology, but there are lots of kinds of people out there -- some just care about *what* a document says, without regard for the mechanics of *how* it says it, some like to draw fascinating maps of subtle pronunciations from to town, and others like to take educated guesses at how a language (or a family of them developed through time). My Dad never quite decided whether 1) poking a seed in the ground and helping it grow or 2) understanding everything about electricity was more interesting. But when I entered graduate school and found a large box full of Spanish morphology notes by Sol Saporta stuck back in a old cupboard, I discovered what to do with my available time -- as Willie Nelson says, "I'm just doin' what I would do if nobody was paying me fer it." And now retired, I can prove that I mean it. Nahuatl morphology is (I always say) like handball -- even a beginner can derive a lot of satisfaction from since the ball keeps coming back to you. But as you practice and practice, you find that there was more to it than seemed at first; the more you dig (pardon the mixed metaphor), the richer it gets, so you're never bored -- the carrot is always there. Your message contained several ideas and you will find agreement and disagreement, but I thought that I'd just send along some relevant data about them. "ihzolihui" and "zolli" are (seem to me) that they show the closest chance of relationship. I wouldn't say that about "xolochtli" and "xolotl", since I'm more morphologically conversative that some people -- on the other hand, I like to feed on the ideas of people who are more willing to take chances. Relevant stuff follows in separate messages. All the best, Motocayo Joe On Fri, 28 May 2004, Joanna M. Sanchez wrote: > It is certainly not unthinkable that a convergence between an original > Nahuatl compound and an introduced term could have occurred over time by > virtue of strong phonological and semantic similarity. And the widely > reported cha- is perhaps a shift from xo-/zo- owing to stress on the > following -lo- syllable. But I still cannot help but think that > cuach[a/o]lote is derived from Nahuatl, with possible etymologies being: > > cua(i)tl + xolotl or cua(i)tl + zoloa > > Rather than reflecting an unhealthy indulgence of exoticism, an > hypothesis of Nahua origin is reasonable for a number of reasons, not the > least of which is the productivity of cua(i)tl when referring to one's > sensibility (or lack thereof). Being dirty certainly had 'moral' > connotations for the Nahua, a condition bearing on an individual's > sensibility. 'Naturally' enough, terms for crazy or confused use cua(itl): > cuatlapololiztli (madness) combines "head" with "lose; destroy." Yet more > notably, cua(i)tl is used in cuatatapah, "disheveled person," with > tatapahtli being "worn out fabric." > > Xolotl is also used in a variety of compounds (axolotl, mexolotl, > xolochaui ), that can mean "doubled over; wrinkled" in a sense that implies > physical deformity or dissaray, as precolumbian images of a ragged and > deformed Xolotl bear out. Xolotl had a canine identity, and dogs were > strongly associated with filth. This seems consistent with the modern > meanings reported (dirty/disheveled). Further, xolopihtli (idiot; tonto) > reinforces a reported semantic value, namely one untalented in either deed > or appearance. > > Zoloa, "wear something out," and ihzoloa, "abase, mistreat," are words > that can also be associated with Nahua conceptions of 'filth' (according to > Burkhart's examination of tlahzolli, "garbage") by referring to matter that > has lost its ordered structure. > > In any event, the word is widely used in Nahua regions of > Jalisco, in addition to Mexico City and points north, further supportive of > an indigenous origin. Joanna > From campbel at INDIANA.EDU Sat May 29 04:53:38 2004 From: campbel at INDIANA.EDU (r. joe campbell) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 23:53:38 -0500 Subject: ihzolihui Message-ID: * ihzolihui caus06 *** cochizoloa =nino. desuelar se. 55m-6. cochizoloa =nino. velar. 71m1-20. cochizoloa =nino=oninocochizolo. desuelarse, o desechar el sue�o. 71m2- 4. cochizoloa =nite. desuelar a otro para que no duerma. 55m-6. cochizoloa =nite=onitecochizolo. quitar el sue�o a otro. 71m2-4. cochizololli =tla. desuelado. 55m-6. cochizololli =tla. desuelado por le auer otros quitado el sue�o. 71m2- 20. izolo =te. cosa que ensuzia. 55m-4. izolo =te. cosa que ensuzia. 71m1-6. izolo =te. cosa que ensuzia. metaphora. 71m2-16. izoloa =nin. enuilecerse por los vicios. 55m-8. izoloa =nin. enuilecerse y apocarse por los vicios. 71m1-10. izoloa =nin=. desonrarse, o apocarse y aceuilarse. 71m2-6. izoloa =niqu. ensuziar la ropa o maltatalla. 71m1-10. izoloa =niqu. enuegecer algo. 71m1-10. izoloa =niqu=oniquizolo. maltratar o enuejecer las cosas dichas. 71m2- 6. izoloa =nitla=onitlazolo. enuejecer ropa, o cosa semejante. 71m2-4. * ihzolihui cochi *** cochizoloa =nino. desuelar se. 55m-6. cochizoloa =nino. velar. 71m1-20. cochizoloa =nino=oninocochizolo. desuelarse, o desechar el sue�o. 71m2- 4. cochizoloa =nite. desuelar a otro para que no duerma. 55m-6. cochizoloa =nite=onitecochizolo. quitar el sue�o a otro. 71m2-4. cochizololli =tla. desuelado. 55m-6. cochizololli =tla. desuelado por le auer otros quitado el sue�o. 71m2- 20. * ihzolihui l1 *** cochizololli =tla. desuelado. 55m-6. cochizololli =tla. desuelado por le auer otros quitado el sue�o. 71m2- 20. * ihzolihui l2 *** cochizoloa =nino. desuelar se. 55m-6. cochizoloa =nino. velar. 71m1-20. cochizoloa =nite. desuelar a otro para que no duerma. 55m-6. cochizololli =tla. desuelado. 55m-6. From campbel at INDIANA.EDU Sat May 29 04:54:10 2004 From: campbel at INDIANA.EDU (r. joe campbell) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 23:54:10 -0500 Subject: zolli Message-ID: * zolli a:matl *** amazolli. papel viejo. 71m2-1. * zolli cactli *** caczol =to. callos de los pies. 55m-2. caczol =to. callos delos pies. 71m2-25. caczolchichiuhqui. el que remienda zapatos. 71m2-2. caczolchichiuhqui. remendon �apatero. 55m-17. caczolehuayotl. los callos delos pies. 71m2-2. caczolehui =ni. callos tener assi. 55m-2. caczolehui =ni=onicaczoleuh. tener callos en los pies. 71m2-2. caczolli. callos delos pies. 71m2-2. * zolli calli *** calzolli. casa vieja. 71m2-2. xacalzolli. casa vieja de paja. 71m2-27. * zolli chi:hua *** caczolchichiuhqui. el que remienda zapatos. 71m2-2. caczolchichiuhqui. remendon �apatero. 55m-17. * zolli co:a:tl *** petlazolcoatl. ciento pies gusano. 55m-4. petlazolcoatl. ciento pies. 71m1-6. petlazolcoatl. ciento pies. 71m2-14. zolcoatl. biuora muy ponzo�osa. 71m2-4. * zolli co:mitl *** conzolli. cuna de ni�os, o cantaro y vasija vieja. 71m2-4. * zolli cua:itl *** cuapetlazol. desmelenado. 55m-5. cuapetlazol. desmelenado. 71m2-14. * zolli e:huatl *** caczolehuayotl. los callos delos pies. 71m2-2. caczolehui =ni=onicaczoleuh. tener callos en los pies. 71m2-2. * zolli hui:pi:lli *** huipilzolli. camisa vieja de india. 71m2-27. * zolli l1 *** tenzolhuilli =tla. sobornado. 55m-18. tenzolhuilli =tla. sobornado. 71m1-19. tenzolhuilli =tla. sobornado. 71m2-23. * zolli ni1 *** tenzolhuiani =te. sobornador. 55m-18. tenzolhuiani =te. sobornador. 71m1-19. tenzolhuiani =te. sobornador, o cohechador. 71m2-18. tenzolpotoniani =te. sobornador. 71m2-18. * zolli petlatl *** cuapetlazol. desmelenado. 55m-5. cuapetlazol. desmelenado. 71m2-14. petlazolcoatl. ciento pies gusano. 55m-4. petlazolcoatl. ciento pies. 71m1-6. petlazolcoatl. ciento pies. 71m2-14. * zolli poss *** caczol =to. callos de los pies. 55m-2. caczol =to. callos delos pies. 71m2-25. * zolli poto:ni *** tenzolpotoniani =te. sobornador. 71m2-18. tenzolpotoniliztli =te. soborno. 71m2-18. * zolli te:ntli *** tenzolhuiani =te. sobornador. 55m-18. tenzolhuiani =te. sobornador. 71m1-19. tenzolhuiani =te. sobornador, o cohechador. 71m2-18. tenzolhuiliztli =te. soborno. 55m-18. tenzolhuiliztli =te. soborno. 71m1-19. tenzolhuiliztli =te. soborno. 71m2-18. tenzolhuilli =tla. sobornado. 55m-18. tenzolhuilli =tla. sobornado. 71m1-19. tenzolhuilli =tla. sobornado. 71m2-23. tenzolpotoniani =te. sobornador. 71m2-18. tenzolpotoniliztli =te. soborno. 71m2-18. tezzolhuia =nite. sobornar. 71m1-19. * zolli trunc *** cuapetlazol. desmelenado. 55m-5. * zolli v05b *** tenzolhuiani =te. sobornador. 55m-18. tenzolhuiani =te. sobornador. 71m1-19. tenzolhuiliztli =te. soborno. 55m-18. tenzolhuiliztli =te. soborno. 71m1-19. tenzolhuilli =tla. sobornado. 55m-18. tenzolhuilli =tla. sobornado. 71m1-19. tezzolhuia =nite. sobornar. 71m1-19. From campbel at INDIANA.EDU Sat May 29 04:54:55 2004 From: campbel at INDIANA.EDU (r. joe campbell) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 23:54:55 -0500 Subject: xolochtli Message-ID: * xolochtli caus06 *** tlanxolochalhuia =nite. rifar los cauallos. 55m-17. tlanxolochalhuia =nite. rifar los cauallos. 71m1-18. tlanxolochalhuiani =te. rifadora cosa. 55m-17. tlanxolochalhuiani =te. rifadora cosa. 71m1-18. tlanxolochoa =ni. rega�ar. 55m-17. tlanxolochoa =ni. rega�ar. 71m1-18. xolochalhuia =nitetla. arrugar o plegar algo a otro. 71m1-3. xolochalhuia =nitetla=onitetlaxolochalhui. plegar o arrugar algo a otro. 71m2-27. xolocho =tla. arrugador assi. 71m1-3. xolochoa =nitla. arrugar algo. 55m-1. xolochoa =nitla. arrugar o plegar algo. 71m1-3. xolochoa =nitla. encoger como costura. 55m-7. xolochoa =nitla. plegar. 55m-16. xolochoa =nitla. plegar. 71m1-17. xolochoani =tla. arrugador assi. 71m1-3. xolocholiztli =tla. encogimiento tal. 55m-7. xolocholiztli =tla. plegadura. 55m-16. xolocholiztli =tla. arrugadura tal. 71m1-3. xolocholiztli =tla. plegadura. 71m1-17. xolocholli =tla. arrugada cosa. 71m1-3. xolocholli =tla. encogido assi. 55m-7. xolocholli =tla. plegada cosa. 55m-16. xolocholli =tla. plegada cosa. 71m1-17. xolochoqui =tla. arrugador assi. 71m1-3. xoxolochoa =nitla. arrugar o plegar algo. 71m1-3. xoxolochoani =tla. arrugador assi. 71m1-3. xoxolocholiztli =tla. arrugadura tal. 71m1-3. xoxolocholli =tla. arrugada cosa. 71m1-3. * xolochtli l1 *** xolocholli =tla. arrugada cosa. 71m1-3. xolocholli =tla. cosa plegada o arrugada. 71m2-25. xolocholli =tla. encogido assi. 55m-7. xolocholli =tla. plegada cosa. 55m-16. xolocholli =tla. plegada cosa. 71m1-17. xoxolocholli =tla. arrugada cosa. 71m1-3. * xolochtli ni1 *** tlanxolochalhuiani =te. rifadora cosa. 55m-17. tlanxolochalhuiani =te. rifadora cosa. 71m1-18. xolochoani =tla. arrugador assi. 71m1-3. xoxolochoani =tla. arrugador assi. 71m1-3. * xolochtli te:ntli *** tenxolochahui. boluerse los filos. 55m-2. tenxolochahui ==otenxolochauh. boluerse los filos al cuchillo, o plegarse la orilla dela ropa, o arrugarse la estremidad de alguna cosa. 71m2-17. * xolochtli tla:lia: *** xolochtlalia =nitla. plegar. 71m1-17. xolochtlalia =nitla=onitlaxolochtlali. plegar, o arrugar algo. 71m2- 27. * xolochtli tlantli *** tlanxolochalhuia =nite. rifar los cauallos. 55m-17. tlanxolochalhuia =nite. rifar los cauallos. 71m1-18. tlanxolochalhuiani =te. rifadora cosa. 55m-17. tlanxolochalhuiani =te. rifadora cosa. 71m1-18. tlanxolochoa =ni. rega�ar. 71m1-18. tlanxolochoa =ni=onitlanxolocho. rega�ar, mostrando los dientes como haze el perro. 71m2-22. * xolochtli v03 *** xolochahuiliztli. arrugamiento tal. 71m1-3. * xolochtli v03b *** tenxolochahui. boluerse los filos. 55m-2. tenxolochahui ==otenxolochauh. boluerse los filos al cuchillo, o plegarse la orilla dela ropa, o arrugarse la estremidad de alguna cosa. 71m2-17. tlanxolochalhuia =nite. rifar los cauallos. 55m-17. tlanxolochalhuia =nite. rifar los cauallos. 71m1-18. tlanxolochalhuiani =te. rifadora cosa. 55m-17. tlanxolochalhuiani =te. rifadora cosa. 71m1-18. tlanxolochoa =ni. rega�ar. 55m-17. tlanxolochoa =ni. rega�ar. 71m1-18. tlanxolochoa =ni=onitlanxolocho. rega�ar, mostrando los dientes como haze el perro. 71m2-22. xolochahui. arrugarse persona. 55m-1. xolochahui. encogerse assi. 55m-7. xolochahui =ni. arrugarse alguno o alguna. 71m1-3. xolochahui =ni=onixolochauh. arrugarse de vejez. 71m2-27. xolochalhuia =nitetla. arrugar o plegar algo a otro. 71m1-3. xolochalhuia =nitetla=onitetlaxolochalhui. plegar o arrugar algo a otro. 71m2-27. xolochauhqui. arrugado assi. 71m1-3. xolocho =tla. arrugador assi. 71m1-3. xolochoa =nitla. arrugar algo. 55m-1. xolochoa =nitla. arrugar o plegar algo. 71m1-3. xolochoa =nitla. encoger como costura. 55m-7. xolochoa =nitla. plegar. 55m-16. xolochoa =nitla. plegar. 71m1-17. xolochoa =nitla=onitlaxolocho. arrugar, o plegar algo. 71m2-27. xolochoani =tla. arrugador assi. 71m1-3. xolocholiztli =tla. arrugadura tal. 71m1-3. xolocholiztli =tla. encogimiento tal. 55m-7. xolocholiztli =tla. plegadura. 55m-16. xolocholiztli =tla. plegadura. 71m1-17. xolocholiztli =tla. plegadura o arrugadura. s. el acto de plegar o arrugar algo. 71m2-25. xolocholli =tla. arrugada cosa. 71m1-3. xolocholli =tla. cosa plegada o arrugada. 71m2-25. xolocholli =tla. encogido assi. 55m-7. xolocholli =tla. plegada cosa. 55m-16. xolocholli =tla. plegada cosa. 71m1-17. xolochoqui =tla. arrugador assi. 71m1-3. xoxolochoa =nitla. arrugar o plegar algo. 71m1-3. xoxolochoani =tla. arrugador assi. 71m1-3. xoxolocholiztli =tla. arrugadura tal. 71m1-3. xoxolocholli =tla. arrugada cosa. 71m1-3. From campbel at INDIANA.EDU Sat May 29 04:55:51 2004 From: campbel at INDIANA.EDU (r. joe campbell) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 23:55:51 -0500 Subject: xo:lo:tl Message-ID: * xo:lo:tl cuahuitl *** cuauhtexolotl. mano de mortero. 71m2-15. tencuauhxolotl. desenfrenado o de mala lengua. 55m-5. tencuauhxolotl. hombre de mala lengua. 71m2-17. * xo:lo:tl e:lli *** huexoloeltzotzolli. papada de gallo. 55m-15. huexoloeltzotzolli. papada de gallo. 71m1-16. * xo:lo:tl hue:i *** huexoloeltzotzolli. papada de gallo. 55m-15. huexoloeltzotzolli. papada de gallo. 71m1-16. huexolotl. gallo. 55m-10. huexolotl. gallo. 71m2-27. * xo:lo:tl lo:2 *** texolohuiloni =tla. majadero tal. 55m-13. texolohuiloni =tla. mortero. 55m-14. * xo:lo:tl ni1 *** texolohuiani =tla. el que maja algo con mano de mortero. 71m2-23. texolohuiani =tla. majador assi. 55m-13. texolohuiloni =tla. majadero tal. 55m-13. texolohuiloni =tla. mano de mortero o de almirez. 71m2-23. texolohuiloni =tla. mortero. 55m-14. tlanxolochhuiani =te. el que rega�a o muestra los dientes, y gru�e como perro. 71m2-18. * xo:lo:tl poss *** xolouh =te. criado que sirue o acompa�a. 71m1-6. xolouh =te. criado, mozo o paje. 71m2-19. xolouh =te. mo�o de seruicio. 55m-14. xolouh =te. paje. 71m1-16. * xo:lo:tl te:ntli *** tencuauhxolotl. desenfrenado o de mala lengua. 55m-5. tencuauhxolotl. hombre de mala lengua. 71m2-17. * xo:lo:tl tetl1 *** cuauhtexolotl. mano de mortero. 71m2-15. texolohuia =nitla. majar^con ma�o o ma�a. 55m-13. texolohuia =nitla [scribal error: +mis-analysis: 55m]. majar con majadero. 55m-13. texolohuia =nitla=onitlatexolohui. majar algo con majadero de piedra. 71m2-19. texolohuiani =tla. el que maja algo con mano de mortero. 71m2-23. texolohuiani =tla. majador assi. 55m-13. texolohuiliztli =tla. molimiento de qualquier cosa que se maja o muele. 55m-20. texolohuiloni =tla. majadero tal. 55m-13. texolohuiloni =tla. mano de mortero o de almirez. 71m2-23. texolohuiloni =tla. mortero. 55m-14. texolotl [scribal error: ??no period between tlatexolouiloni and texolotl: 55m]. majadero tal. 55m-13. * xo:lo:tl tilmahtli *** xolotilmatli. librea de vestir. 55m-12. xoxolotilmatli. librea de vestir. 55m-12. * xo:lo:tl tilmatli *** xolotilmatli. librea de pajes. 71m2-27. xoxolo tilmatli. librea de pajes. 71m2-27. * xo:lo:tl tlantli *** tlanxolochhuiani =te. el que rega�a o muestra los dientes, y gru�e como perro. 71m2-18. * xo:lo:tl trunc *** xolo. criado que sirue o acompa�a. 71m1-6. xolo. sieruo. 71m1-19. * xo:lo:tl tzo:lli *** huexoloeltzotzolli. papada de gallo. 55m-15. huexoloeltzotzolli. papada de gallo. 71m1-16. * xo:lo:tl uh *** xolouh =te. criado que sirue o acompa�a. 71m1-6. xolouh =te. mo�o de seruicio. 55m-14. xolouh =te. paje. 71m1-16. * xo:lo:tl v04 *** xoxoloti =te. chocarrero. 71m1-6. * xo:lo:tl v05b *** texolohuia =nitla. majar^con ma�o o ma�a. 55m-13. texolohuia =nitla [scribal error: +mis-analysis: 55m]. majar con majadero. 55m-13. texolohuiani =tla. majador assi. 55m-13. texolohuiliztli =tla. molimiento de qualquier cosa que se maja o muele. 55m-20. texolohuiloni =tla. majadero tal. 55m-13. texolohuiloni =tla. mortero. 55m-14. From mmontcha at OREGONVOS.NET Sat May 29 05:15:22 2004 From: mmontcha at OREGONVOS.NET (Matthew Montchalin) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 22:15:22 -0700 Subject: xo:lo:tl In-Reply-To: Message-ID: r. joe campbell wrote: How about translating your litany of Spanish equivalencies into something the rest of us might find digestible? I'll cast my vote for German or Classical Latin. From micc2 at COX.NET Sat May 29 06:50:46 2004 From: micc2 at COX.NET (micc2) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 23:50:46 -0700 Subject: xo:lo:tl In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Better yet, since you appear to be interested in Nahuatl, which is one of the native languages of Mexico (where sadly Spanish is the official language), and much has been written in Castilian about Nahuatl over the past 400 years (ESPECIALLY THE IMPORTANT DICTIONARIES AND GRAMMARS DURING THE POST CONQUEST PERIOD), you should learn Spanish and forgo the "dead" language of Latin. As for German......................... enough said :) mario aguilar www.mexicayotl.org Matthew Montchalin wrote: >r. joe campbell wrote: > > > >How about translating your litany of Spanish equivalencies into something >the rest of us might find digestible? > >I'll cast my vote for German or Classical Latin. > > > From schwallr at mrs.umn.edu Sun May 30 15:18:48 2004 From: schwallr at mrs.umn.edu (John F. Schwaller) Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 10:18:48 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Posting to list re cuacha Message-ID: Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 16:42:46 -0500 From: Karen Dakin Subject: Posting to list re cuacha >Is it >possible to post the message below? Thanks very much. >Karen Dakin > > >Just to add a bit to the discussion -- I checked Pablo Velasquez >Gallardo's >Diccionario de la lengua phorhepecha, (Tarascan) published in 1978 by the >Fondo de Cultura >Economica in Mexico, and found the following: > >kuatsita.. Excremento. > >kuatsinda. Resina del tronco seco de pino. >kuatsingatarakua icherir. Bacinica de barro. >kuatsintani. Cuando el polen del maiz se ha caido. >kuatsirakua. Ano >kuatsitakua. Copal (Elaphritum jorullense H.B.K.). >kuatsitas kamatarhu anapu. Epazote (Chenopodium ambrosioides L. Planta >medicinal). >kuatsites iojkurha. Epazote (Chenopodium ambrosioides L. Planta >medicinal). > >A Phorhepecha specialist would have to analyze the morphology, but at least >it looks initially as though kuatsita could be the source of 'cuacha'. > >Karen Dakin > From institute at CSUMB.EDU Sun May 30 15:19:22 2004 From: institute at CSUMB.EDU (Archaeology Institute) Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 08:19:22 -0700 Subject: Fwd: Posting to list re cuacha Message-ID: Thank you for your message. I will be away from June 2nd through August 20th. If you have an urgent matter that you would like to communicate, please contact Lilly Martinez by voice mail at 831-582-4364. From mmccaffe at INDIANA.EDU Sun May 30 17:18:06 2004 From: mmccaffe at INDIANA.EDU (Michael Mccafferty) Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 12:18:06 -0500 Subject: quetzalli In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.0.20040530101449.034552a8@schwallr.email.umn.edu> Message-ID: Does anyone know why a quetzal feather is "it is something stood up," i.e., que:tzalli? tlaxtlahui, mochihuantin, Michael From a.appleyard at BTINTERNET.COM Sun May 30 17:57:39 2004 From: a.appleyard at BTINTERNET.COM (=?iso-8859-1?q?ANTHONY=20APPLEYARD?=) Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 18:57:39 +0100 Subject: quetzalli In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Michael Mccafferty wrote: > Does anyone know why a quetzal feather is "it is something stood up," > i.e., que:tzalli? tlaxtlahui, mochihuantin, Michael It was likely originally a feather-workers' word meaning "any sort of long ornamental feather that is stiff enough to stand vertical and ornamental enough to be used as a feature in decoration", and then "THE SPECIAL sort of such ornamental feather". -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From harper at WAYPT.COM Sun May 30 17:50:45 2004 From: harper at WAYPT.COM (David Fagan) Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 10:50:45 -0700 Subject: Uto-Aztecan linguistics bibliography Message-ID: Other than indices of journals such as IJAL, Anthropological Linguistics, etc., is there a bibliographic source dealing with UA linguistics which is updated frequently? From mmccaffe at INDIANA.EDU Sun May 30 18:23:03 2004 From: mmccaffe at INDIANA.EDU (Michael Mccafferty) Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 13:23:03 -0500 Subject: quetzalli In-Reply-To: <20040530175739.30237.qmail@web86312.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks, Anthony. Much appreciated. On Sun, 30 May 2004, [iso-8859-1] ANTHONY APPLEYARD wrote: > > It was likely originally a feather-workers' word meaning "any sort of long ornamental feather that is stiff enough to stand vertical and ornamental enough to be used as a feature in decoration", and then "THE SPECIAL sort of such ornamental feather". > > From micc2 at COX.NET Mon May 31 05:54:39 2004 From: micc2 at COX.NET (micc2) Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 22:54:39 -0700 Subject: quetzalli In-Reply-To: Message-ID: perhaps from quetza "to rise up" as in when a quetzall bird rises up into the air and it's beautiful tail feathers hang below it like "jade flames"?????? Michael Mccafferty wrote: >Does anyone know why a quetzal feather is "it is something stood up," >i.e., que:tzalli? > >tlaxtlahui, mochihuantin, > >Michael > > > From Ian.Mursell at BTINTERNET.COM Sat May 8 11:53:30 2004 From: Ian.Mursell at BTINTERNET.COM (Ian Mursell) Date: Sat, 8 May 2004 12:53:30 +0100 Subject: Az: Current Info, Excavations, etc In-Reply-To: <008101c42893$f4f02960$3281df80@uoregon.edu> Message-ID: Hi Stephanie. I wanted to write again, after you kindly provided feedback on the little N?huatl pronunciation page of our educational website on the Aztecs, for two reasons:- 1 to thank you again for the feedback, and for the link to the N?huatl.info pages, which could well be really useful for school children here. I've now visited the site and they look like an excellent group to collaborate with 2 to ask if it might be possible to access the Virtual Mesoamerican Archive site, that you referred to in the Wired Humanities Project posting some weeks ago. Carelessly I've only just realised it's the same Stephanie Wood! I was impressed by the scope of the project you outlined in your message to the Nahuatl e-group, and have been meaning since then to ask if we could collaborate in any way on this. It sounds a most valuable and long overdue resource. One of my own particular interests Is in Aztec music (I'm giving a lecture/demonstration on this at the Latin American Music Seminar at the Institute of Latin American Studies in London in a couple of weeks time). It goes without saying that your Archive would be invaluable in researching and preparing this topic, and I'm perfectly happy in the future to offer what resources I have here to your wider community. For example, I'm building up what I hope is a useful collection of images from the codices of musical practice in pre-Columbian Mexico, some of which I plan to add to our website. Well, I hope we can support each other's work in the future and also that Graciela and I will have a chance to meet you before long! Kind regards, Ian Ian Mursell Director Mexicolore 28 Warriner Gardens London SW11 4EB, U.K. Tel: +44 (0) 20 7622 9577 Fax: +44 (0) 20 7498 3643 www.mexicolore.co.uk Ian.Mursell at btinternet.com Bringing Mexico and the Aztecs to life in schools and museums throughout England - and now via the internet! - since 1980 From cihuatl at EARTHLINK.NET Wed May 19 15:05:51 2004 From: cihuatl at EARTHLINK.NET (Joanna M. Sanchez) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 11:05:51 -0400 Subject: cuacholote Message-ID: I am analyzing the Mexican Spanish slang term cuacholote, which refers to a clumsy or untalented person, for its Nahuatl root. Would it be cuauh-xeloa, or should cua-xolotl be considered ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robert at COATLI.COM Wed May 19 18:26:23 2004 From: robert at COATLI.COM (robert barkaloff) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 11:26:23 -0700 Subject: cuacholote In-Reply-To: <001a01c43db2$cefbd4a0$d3a05b40@o9l8c6> Message-ID: Joanna M. Sanchez wrote: > I am analyzing the Mexican Spanish slang term /cuacholote/, which > refers to a clumsy or untalented person, for its Nahuatl root. Would > it be /cuauh-xeloa/, or should /cua-xolotl/ be considered /?/ Just a note: I grew-up hearing this word at me -- thank's mom. I do remember the pronounciation as "cua-cha-lote." This may be a regional variation, though I have never heard the word pronounced as "cua-cho-lote." I also assumed it to be "cuah-xolotl," though I'm not sure of it's derivation. In the context which I understood the word, it refers to someone who is sloppy or unkempt in appearance or in their doings. Robert From MBOLIVAR at SAN.RR.COM Wed May 19 18:42:28 2004 From: MBOLIVAR at SAN.RR.COM (Maria) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 11:42:28 -0700 Subject: cuacholote In-Reply-To: <40ABA6CF.6010707@coatli.com> Message-ID: It is cuachalote and it does not quite mean clumsy. It means untidy, badly dressed, dirty. Cuachalote is often used to diminish someone who concducts himself or herself in a careless manner. Mira nom?s qu? cuachalote is also used as the equivalent of fachoso or dejado... Maria "We don?t see things as they are, We see things as we are." Anais Nin Dr. Mar?a D. Bol?var MBOLIVAR at san.rr.com -----Original Message----- From: Nahua language and culture discussion [mailto:NAHUAT-L at LISTS.UMN.EDU] On Behalf Of robert barkaloff Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 11:26 AM To: NAHUAT-L at LISTS.UMN.EDU Subject: Re: cuacholote Joanna M. Sanchez wrote: > I am analyzing the Mexican Spanish slang term /cuacholote/, which > refers to a clumsy or untalented person, for its Nahuatl root. Would > it be /cuauh-xeloa/, or should /cua-xolotl/ be considered /?/ Just a note: I grew-up hearing this word at me -- thank's mom. I do remember the pronounciation as "cua-cha-lote." This may be a regional variation, though I have never heard the word pronounced as "cua-cho-lote." I also assumed it to be "cuah-xolotl," though I'm not sure of it's derivation. In the context which I understood the word, it refers to someone who is sloppy or unkempt in appearance or in their doings. Robert From MBOLIVAR at SAN.RR.COM Wed May 19 18:46:30 2004 From: MBOLIVAR at SAN.RR.COM (Maria) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 11:46:30 -0700 Subject: cuacholote In-Reply-To: <40ABA6CF.6010707@coatli.com> Message-ID: If you can read Spanish, Germ?n Dehesa has a funny text of cuachalotes, here: http://www.terra.com.mx/deportes/articulo/041740/ I am referring, of course, to the modern use of cuachalote, the one I heard growing up. Maria "We don?t see things as they are, We see things as we are." Anais Nin Dr. Mar?a D. Bol?var MBOLIVAR at san.rr.com -----Original Message----- From: Nahua language and culture discussion [mailto:NAHUAT-L at LISTS.UMN.EDU] On Behalf Of robert barkaloff Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 11:26 AM To: NAHUAT-L at LISTS.UMN.EDU Subject: Re: cuacholote Joanna M. Sanchez wrote: > I am analyzing the Mexican Spanish slang term /cuacholote/, which > refers to a clumsy or untalented person, for its Nahuatl root. Would > it be /cuauh-xeloa/, or should /cua-xolotl/ be considered /?/ Just a note: I grew-up hearing this word at me -- thank's mom. I do remember the pronounciation as "cua-cha-lote." This may be a regional variation, though I have never heard the word pronounced as "cua-cho-lote." I also assumed it to be "cuah-xolotl," though I'm not sure of it's derivation. In the context which I understood the word, it refers to someone who is sloppy or unkempt in appearance or in their doings. Robert From tonantzn at CHORUS.NET Wed May 19 19:14:17 2004 From: tonantzn at CHORUS.NET (Juan Alvarez Cuauhtemoc) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 14:14:17 -0500 Subject: cuacholote Message-ID: As a Chicano growing up in a bordertown I oftentimes heard the word cua-cha-lote, not cua-cho-lote. But the context and meaning was different than what Robert proposes. Perhaps this has to do with regional variations as he said. In any case, cua-cha-lote was a "bad" word. For example, the word, "cua-cha" in cua-cha-lote meant "caca" (shit). So, if someone said "no vales cuacha." It was the equivalent of saying "you are not worth shit." So, if someone called another "cua-cha-lote" it was, depending on the context, either an insult or a cari?ito. Insult: "piece of shit." Cari?ito: "Este cago todo a su padre, mi cua-cha-lotito." ("He completely took after his father, my little piece of shit.") In the nahuatlized mestizo background where I come from we inherited the use of inverted speech. We, for example, used "papacito" to refer to its opposite -a little boy. Or hombre grande to refer to a small son. When used with cari?o even the word "caca" meant its opposite -beauty. So, to call someone with cari?o -mi cua-cha-lotito was, in essence, to call him the opposite, a handsome boy. Juan Alvarez Cuauhtemoc ----- Original Message ----- From: "robert barkaloff" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 1:26 PM Subject: Re: cuacholote > Joanna M. Sanchez wrote: > > > I am analyzing the Mexican Spanish slang term /cuacholote/, which > > refers to a clumsy or untalented person, for its Nahuatl root. Would > > it be /cuauh-xeloa/, or should /cua-xolotl/ be considered /?/ > > Just a note: I grew-up hearing this word at me -- thank's mom. I do > remember the pronounciation as "cua-cha-lote." This may be a regional > variation, though I have never heard the word pronounced as > "cua-cho-lote." I also assumed it to be "cuah-xolotl," though I'm not > sure of it's derivation. In the context which I understood the word, it > refers to someone who is sloppy or unkempt in appearance or in their doings. > > Robert From MBOLIVAR at SAN.RR.COM Wed May 19 19:49:56 2004 From: MBOLIVAR at SAN.RR.COM (Maria) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 12:49:56 -0700 Subject: cuacholote In-Reply-To: <002601c43dd5$7bcbaad0$c5ee0b45@JuanAlvarez> Message-ID: It is cuachalote and it does not quite mean clumsy. It means untidy, badly dressed, dirty. Cuachalote is often used to diminish someone who conducts himself or herself in a carefree manner. Mira nom?s qu? cuachalote is also used as the equivalent of fachoso or dejado... If you can read Spanish, Germ?n Dehesa has a funny text of cuachalotes, here: http://www.terra.com.mx/deportes/articulo/041740/ http://www.jergasdehablahispana.org/mexico.htm I am referring, of course, to the modern use of cuachalote, the one I heard growing up. You can also check the jerga dictionary on line at http://www.jergasdehablahispana.org/mexico.htm cuachalote: (adj.) desali?ado, mal vestido. Ah? andaba Teresa por la casa, toda cuachalota, cuando de repente lleg? su futura suegra. Mar?a Bol?var "We don?t see things as they are, We see things as we are." Anais Nin Dr. Mar?a D. Bol?var MBOLIVAR at san.rr.com -----Original Message----- From: Nahua language and culture discussion [mailto:NAHUAT-L at LISTS.UMN.EDU] On Behalf Of Juan Alvarez Cuauhtemoc Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 12:14 PM To: NAHUAT-L at LISTS.UMN.EDU Subject: Re: cuacholote As a Chicano growing up in a bordertown I oftentimes heard the word cua-cha-lote, not cua-cho-lote. But the context and meaning was different than what Robert proposes. Perhaps this has to do with regional variations as he said. In any case, cua-cha-lote was a "bad" word. For example, the word, "cua-cha" in cua-cha-lote meant "caca" (shit). So, if someone said "no vales cuacha." It was the equivalent of saying "you are not worth shit." So, if someone called another "cua-cha-lote" it was, depending on the context, either an insult or a cari?ito. Insult: "piece of shit." Cari?ito: "Este cago todo a su padre, mi cua-cha-lotito." ("He completely took after his father, my little piece of shit.") In the nahuatlized mestizo background where I come from we inherited the use of inverted speech. We, for example, used "papacito" to refer to its opposite -a little boy. Or hombre grande to refer to a small son. When used with cari?o even the word "caca" meant its opposite -beauty. So, to call someone with cari?o -mi cua-cha-lotito was, in essence, to call him the opposite, a handsome boy. Juan Alvarez Cuauhtemoc ----- Original Message ----- From: "robert barkaloff" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 1:26 PM Subject: Re: cuacholote > Joanna M. Sanchez wrote: > > > I am analyzing the Mexican Spanish slang term /cuacholote/, which > > refers to a clumsy or untalented person, for its Nahuatl root. Would > > it be /cuauh-xeloa/, or should /cua-xolotl/ be considered /?/ > > Just a note: I grew-up hearing this word at me -- thank's mom. I do > remember the pronounciation as "cua-cha-lote." This may be a regional > variation, though I have never heard the word pronounced as > "cua-cho-lote." I also assumed it to be "cuah-xolotl," though I'm not > sure of it's derivation. In the context which I understood the word, it > refers to someone who is sloppy or unkempt in appearance or in their doings. > > Robert From cihuatl at EARTHLINK.NET Wed May 19 21:06:23 2004 From: cihuatl at EARTHLINK.NET (Joanna M. Sanchez) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 17:06:23 -0400 Subject: cuacholote Message-ID: Yes, I think I must have heard it as a regional variant in Jalisco, near Colima. And it was normally used when something one did went badly or sloppily. Thanks very much. I still wish to explore the Nahautl etymology. Joanna ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maria" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 3:49 PM Subject: Re: cuacholote It is cuachalote and it does not quite mean clumsy. It means untidy, badly dressed, dirty. Cuachalote is often used to diminish someone who conducts himself or herself in a carefree manner. Mira nom?s qu? cuachalote is also used as the equivalent of fachoso or dejado... If you can read Spanish, Germ?n Dehesa has a funny text of cuachalotes, here: http://www.terra.com.mx/deportes/articulo/041740/ http://www.jergasdehablahispana.org/mexico.htm I am referring, of course, to the modern use of cuachalote, the one I heard growing up. You can also check the jerga dictionary on line at http://www.jergasdehablahispana.org/mexico.htm cuachalote: (adj.) desali?ado, mal vestido. Ah? andaba Teresa por la casa, toda cuachalota, cuando de repente lleg? su futura suegra. Mar?a Bol?var "We don?t see things as they are, We see things as we are." Anais Nin Dr. Mar?a D. Bol?var MBOLIVAR at san.rr.com -----Original Message----- From: Nahua language and culture discussion [mailto:NAHUAT-L at LISTS.UMN.EDU] On Behalf Of Juan Alvarez Cuauhtemoc Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 12:14 PM To: NAHUAT-L at LISTS.UMN.EDU Subject: Re: cuacholote As a Chicano growing up in a bordertown I oftentimes heard the word cua-cha-lote, not cua-cho-lote. But the context and meaning was different than what Robert proposes. Perhaps this has to do with regional variations as he said. In any case, cua-cha-lote was a "bad" word. For example, the word, "cua-cha" in cua-cha-lote meant "caca" (shit). So, if someone said "no vales cuacha." It was the equivalent of saying "you are not worth shit." So, if someone called another "cua-cha-lote" it was, depending on the context, either an insult or a cari?ito. Insult: "piece of shit." Cari?ito: "Este cago todo a su padre, mi cua-cha-lotito." ("He completely took after his father, my little piece of shit.") In the nahuatlized mestizo background where I come from we inherited the use of inverted speech. We, for example, used "papacito" to refer to its opposite -a little boy. Or hombre grande to refer to a small son. When used with cari?o even the word "caca" meant its opposite -beauty. So, to call someone with cari?o -mi cua-cha-lotito was, in essence, to call him the opposite, a handsome boy. Juan Alvarez Cuauhtemoc ----- Original Message ----- From: "robert barkaloff" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 1:26 PM Subject: Re: cuacholote > Joanna M. Sanchez wrote: > > > I am analyzing the Mexican Spanish slang term /cuacholote/, which > > refers to a clumsy or untalented person, for its Nahuatl root. Would > > it be /cuauh-xeloa/, or should /cua-xolotl/ be considered /?/ > > Just a note: I grew-up hearing this word at me -- thank's mom. I do > remember the pronounciation as "cua-cha-lote." This may be a regional > variation, though I have never heard the word pronounced as > "cua-cho-lote." I also assumed it to be "cuah-xolotl," though I'm not > sure of it's derivation. In the context which I understood the word, it > refers to someone who is sloppy or unkempt in appearance or in their doings. > > Robert From mmontcha at OREGONVOS.NET Wed May 19 21:48:18 2004 From: mmontcha at OREGONVOS.NET (Matthew Montchalin) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 14:48:18 -0700 Subject: cuacholote In-Reply-To: <002601c43dd5$7bcbaad0$c5ee0b45@JuanAlvarez> Message-ID: Juan Alvarez Cuauhtemoc wrote: |As a Chicano growing up in a bordertown I oftentimes heard the word |cua-cha-lote, not cua-cho-lote. But the context and meaning was different |than what Robert proposes. Perhaps this has to do with regional variations |as he said. In any case, cua-cha-lote was a "bad" word. For example, the |word, "cua-cha" in cua-cha-lote meant "caca" (shit). So cuacha (kwacha) might denote the Spanish 'caca?' If Nahuatl imported this root from Spanish, did it happen rather late in the history of the language? From dfrye at UMICH.EDU Wed May 19 22:08:59 2004 From: dfrye at UMICH.EDU (Frye, David) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 18:08:59 -0400 Subject: cuacholote Message-ID: >From Santamaria's Diccionario de mexicanismos: Cuachalote, cuachalota. Individuo, persona descuidada en el vestido y en el aseo corporal. (Sorry I can't help with the etymology.) For cuacha all by itself, Santamaria has: Cuacha. (Voz tarasca.) Vulgarmente, en el noroeste del pais, mierda de gallina. (Perhaps cuacholote, with an 'o,' is a variant of guajolote, turkey; also, fool, bobo, necio.) From butlerpe at PURDUE.EDU Thu May 20 00:13:34 2004 From: butlerpe at PURDUE.EDU (butlerpe at PURDUE.EDU) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 19:13:34 -0500 Subject: Cuacha Message-ID: I never write anything on this list but I thought I would on this one. In my family, cuacha means "shit" too. For instance, there's a lot of little kids in our family and they always expect presents when we go anywhere. They always ask "what did you get me?" The answer most of the time is "cuacha." My family is from Nuevo Leon, so maybe cuacha as "shit" is a northern variation. As far as using it to describe a mess or untidy thing, we would use it if the mess was like rotten food or muddy stuff or something disgusting, not just a pile of dirty clothes. Plus, when someone has diarrhea the term we use is "cuacha." It sounds nicer than "chorro." From mexica at LYCOS.ES Thu May 20 04:44:13 2004 From: mexica at LYCOS.ES (Netza Latrans) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 04:44:13 GMT Subject: UNSUSCRIBE mexica@lycos.es Message-ID: UNSUSCRIBE mexica at lycos.es ______________________________________________________ ?Echas de menos tus d?as de cole? Comparte tus aventuras de aquellos a?os en http://antiguosalumnos.lycos.es From g_castelan at HOTMAIL.COM Thu May 20 04:56:58 2004 From: g_castelan at HOTMAIL.COM (Gabriel Castelan) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 23:56:58 -0500 Subject: cuacholote Message-ID: Hi.. I am Mexican from the center (nahuatl zone) of the country... Here we use "cuachalote" and just like Frye says: "Cuachalote, cuachalota. Individuo, persona descuidada en el vestido y en el aseo corporal." I think cuacholote is just the same word but with a little fonetic change because of regionalism. I know some one who says "librillo" instead of "lebrillo" but he refers to the same thing: a little container to get water in order to wash your hands. Cuacha is the hen's excrement. Axcan quema: Usualy we use the word as an adjective for describing careless dressed people just like "fachoso", "pandroso", "desgargolado", "cochino", "andrajoso", etc.. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Juan Alvarez Cuauhtemoc" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 2:14 PM Subject: Re: cuacholote > As a Chicano growing up in a bordertown I oftentimes heard the word > cua-cha-lote, not cua-cho-lote. But the context and meaning was different > than what Robert proposes. Perhaps this has to do with regional variations > as he said. In any case, cua-cha-lote was a "bad" word. For example, the > word, "cua-cha" in cua-cha-lote meant "caca" (shit). So, if someone said > "no vales cuacha." It was the equivalent of saying "you are not worth > shit." So, if someone called another "cua-cha-lote" it was, depending on > the context, either an insult or a cari?ito. Insult: "piece of shit." > Cari?ito: "Este cago todo a su padre, mi cua-cha-lotito." ("He completely > took after his father, my little piece of shit.") In the nahuatlized > mestizo background where I come from we inherited the use of inverted > speech. We, for example, used "papacito" to refer to its opposite -a little > boy. Or hombre grande to refer to a small son. When used with cari?o even > the word "caca" meant its opposite -beauty. So, to call someone with > cari?o -mi cua-cha-lotito was, in essence, to call him the opposite, a > handsome boy. > > > Juan Alvarez Cuauhtemoc > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "robert barkaloff" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 1:26 PM > Subject: Re: cuacholote > > > > Joanna M. Sanchez wrote: > > > > > I am analyzing the Mexican Spanish slang term /cuacholote/, which > > > refers to a clumsy or untalented person, for its Nahuatl root. Would > > > it be /cuauh-xeloa/, or should /cua-xolotl/ be considered /?/ > > > > Just a note: I grew-up hearing this word at me -- thank's mom. I do > > remember the pronounciation as "cua-cha-lote." This may be a regional > > variation, though I have never heard the word pronounced as > > "cua-cho-lote." I also assumed it to be "cuah-xolotl," though I'm not > > sure of it's derivation. In the context which I understood the word, it > > refers to someone who is sloppy or unkempt in appearance or in their > doings. > > > > Robert > From CHMuths at AOL.COM Thu May 20 07:21:35 2004 From: CHMuths at AOL.COM (CHMuths at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 03:21:35 EDT Subject: Sunscribe mexica@lycos.es Message-ID: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mmontcha at OREGONVOS.NET Fri May 21 00:19:32 2004 From: mmontcha at OREGONVOS.NET (Matthew Montchalin) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 17:19:32 -0700 Subject: Cuacha In-Reply-To: <1085012014.40abf82e70086@webmail.purdue.edu> Message-ID: butlerpe at PURDUE.EDU wrote: |Subject: Cuacha | |I never write anything on this list but I thought I would on this one. |In my family, cuacha means "shit" too. Okay, but is it really a technical 'scientific' sort of word (indicating a European origin, I will take it) or is it more of a 'taboo' sort of word (indicating some kind of original Nahuatl sort of word). Can you make a guess about its etymology? If you have studied Classical Latin, you naturally know about stercus and fimum, neither of which have the slightest similarity to the Spanish 'caca.' Sometimes two words tend to merge if their pronunciation is similar. (For instance, compare the improbable English 'meld' from German 'meld' "announce" and English 'melt' "mush together.") Could the Nawatl kwacha represent a fusion of some kind of early mesoamerican (?) root with a taboo word in Mediaeval Spanish? From campbel at INDIANA.EDU Fri May 21 02:16:10 2004 From: campbel at INDIANA.EDU (r. joe campbell) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 21:16:10 -0500 Subject: cuacholote In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Francisco Santamari'a, Diccionario de mejicanismos, says, "Individuo, persona descuidada en el vestido y en el aseo corporal." * * * * * * * * * * * I have visited and traveled in Mexico (mainly Jalisco, Morelos, Guerrero, and Puebla) since 1959 -- and I have heard it used with some frequency. On the other hand, a friend of mine who grew up in Mexico City (to adulthood) just told me today that he had never heard the word. Hmmm... I guess it could be related to our respective dress; I probably attract the use of a few other words that he doesn't. >8( * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * I have checked all three Molina dictionaries and the Florentine Codex for attractive sources and I've come up dry. ...substrings like: cuacha... cuacho... cuaxa... cuaxo... ...chalo ...xalo Joe From micc2 at COX.NET Fri May 21 04:12:20 2004 From: micc2 at COX.NET (micc2) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 21:12:20 -0700 Subject: Cuacha In-Reply-To: Message-ID: "If you have studied Classical Latin,you naturally know about stercus and fimum, neither of which have the slightest similarity to the Spanish 'caca.'" However we do use the word "estierco" for cow manure. Matthew Montchalin wrote: >butlerpe at PURDUE.EDU wrote: >|Subject: Cuacha >| >|I never write anything on this list but I thought I would on this one. >|In my family, cuacha means "shit" too. > >Okay, but is it really a technical 'scientific' sort of word (indicating >a European origin, I will take it) or is it more of a 'taboo' sort of >word (indicating some kind of original Nahuatl sort of word). Can you >make a guess about its etymology? If you have studied Classical Latin, >you naturally know about stercus and fimum, neither of which have the >slightest similarity to the Spanish 'caca.' Sometimes two words tend >to merge if their pronunciation is similar. (For instance, compare >the improbable English 'meld' from German 'meld' "announce" and English >'melt' "mush together.") > >Could the Nawatl kwacha represent a fusion of some kind of early >mesoamerican (?) root with a taboo word in Mediaeval Spanish? > > > From mmontcha at OREGONVOS.NET Fri May 21 04:18:13 2004 From: mmontcha at OREGONVOS.NET (Matthew Montchalin) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 21:18:13 -0700 Subject: Cuacha In-Reply-To: <1085012014.40abf82e70086@webmail.purdue.edu> Message-ID: |I never write anything on this list but I thought I would on this one. In my |family, cuacha means "shit" too. For instance, there's a lot of little kids in |our family and they always expect presents when we go anywhere. They always |ask "what did you get me?" The answer most of the time is "cuacha." My family |is from Nuevo Leon, so maybe cuacha as "shit" is a northern variation. As far |as using it to describe a mess or untidy thing, we would use it if the mess was |like rotten food or muddy stuff or something disgusting, not just a pile of |dirty clothes. Plus, when someone has diarrhea the term we use is "cuacha." |It sounds nicer than "chorro." Could kwacha have been imported into Nawatl from Mediaeval Spanish 'quassa' (dating to the time of Cortez, I guess), and ultimately from Late Latin quattior (and through hundreds of years of Mediaeval Spanish filtering it and changing it somehow)? From mmontcha at OREGONVOS.NET Fri May 21 04:28:12 2004 From: mmontcha at OREGONVOS.NET (Matthew Montchalin) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 21:28:12 -0700 Subject: Cuacha In-Reply-To: <40AD81A4.4020102@cox.net> Message-ID: micc2 wrote: |"If you have studied Classical Latin, you naturally know about stercus |and fimum, neither of which have the slightest similarity to the Spanish |'caca.'" | |However we do use the word "estierco" for cow manure. Ah, good to learn that. (Certo alienus vel ignarus hispanicae linguae sum, nimirum Hispanicam nescio.) But can you suggest an etymology for kwacha? I am grasping at straws when I suggest things like Latin quatio (or its frequentative form quasso). I would only observe that the consonant found in the middle can shift a little, as if palatalizing, perhaps even turn into ch. From a.appleyard at BTINTERNET.COM Fri May 21 05:33:11 2004 From: a.appleyard at BTINTERNET.COM (=?iso-8859-1?q?ANTHONY=20APPLEYARD?=) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 06:33:11 +0100 Subject: Cuacha In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Matthew Montchalin wrote: > ... Can you make a guess about its etymology? If you have studied Classical Latin, > you naturally know about stercus and fimum, ... And Latin [merda] = French [merde[ = "excrement". With Spanish [caca] = "excrement", compare Latin [caccare] = "defaecate", Greek [kakke_] = "excrement", [kakos] = "bad". Perhaps that apparent family of words derives from a child's inarticulate exclamation of disgust [kakakakaka...]. That sort of natural function and the place where it is performed attracts euphemisms and strange jocular expressions wherever men live. Compare Nahuatl [cuitlatl] = "excrement" and "bottom"; Swahili [choo] and CB radio jargon [10-100] = "excrement" and "lavatory". -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From butlerpe at PURDUE.EDU Fri May 21 05:44:26 2004 From: butlerpe at PURDUE.EDU (butlerpe at PURDUE.EDU) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 00:44:26 -0500 Subject: Cuacha In-Reply-To: Message-ID: It seems like you know quite a bit about Latin and since Spanish comes from Latin, at least that's what I thought but I am no linguist, maybe you have heard the term "cuacha" used in Spain? I met a few people from Spain in Mexico before and they had never heard the term. But, then again, some of my best friends are from Guanajuato and they've never heard it either. Here is something that just came to mind. I don't know how politically correct everyone is going to find this but it's part of the reality of Mexicans and Mexican Americans alike. The only people I have heard use this word are my relatives, and my family all has dark skin and "el aspeto indigena." In other words, I think my family has a lot of Indian blood, but how much or from where I don't know. My friends that I mentioned from Guanajuato are blanquitas, and their mother told me in a conversation once that she was proud that they didn't look like "indios," and, when her slightly darker skinned daughter was brought up, she commented on how she felt bad for her since she was more morena. So, I would be inclined to think "cuacha" has its roots in an indigenous language, even if it is not nahuatl. Quoting Matthew Montchalin : > micc2 wrote: > |"If you have studied Classical Latin, you naturally know about stercus > |and fimum, neither of which have the slightest similarity to the Spanish > |'caca.'" > | > |However we do use the word "estierco" for cow manure. > > Ah, good to learn that. (Certo alienus vel ignarus hispanicae linguae > sum, nimirum Hispanicam nescio.) > > But can you suggest an etymology for kwacha? I am grasping at straws > when I suggest things like Latin quatio (or its frequentative form > quasso). I would only observe that the consonant found in the middle > can shift a little, as if palatalizing, perhaps even turn into ch. > From dfrye at UMICH.EDU Fri May 21 14:05:23 2004 From: dfrye at UMICH.EDU (Frye, David) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 10:05:23 -0400 Subject: Cuacha Message-ID: Francisco J. Santamaria was a great lexicographer but not much of an etymologist; still, it bears repeating that his dictionary entry for "cuacha" (defining it as "mierda de gallina," chickenshit) claims that it is "voz tar." i.e. a term from Tarasco or Purepecha. He also notes that it is used in the North West of the country. It is also worth recalling that Nahuatl is an important language, but hardly the only indigenous language, even in central Mexico (and most of these languages are unrelated to one another). For "caca," Corominas's Diccionario etimologico notes a first occurence in print from 1517 and says it is a "Voz de creacion expresiva procedente del lenguaje infantil," i.e. baby talk, which makes sense. Linguists have noted that the common first words used by infants and small children, especially words for mother (mama, nana, etc) and father (papa, dada, tata, etc.) tend to use the consonants and vowels that are the easiest for the developing child to pronounce, and to duplicate the first syllable. Caca (also pipi, poopoo, etc.) follows a similar pattern, so there is no reason to suppose it is anything other than 'baby talk.' Finally, if anyone is still hunting for an etymology of 'cuachalote,' I would again note that the common Mexican word for turkey, 'guajalote' comes from Nahuatl 'huehxo:lo:tl,' so I wouldn't be surprised if the 'cuach' part came from something that didn't sound exactly like 'cuach' in the original Nahuatl.... assuming that there *is* a Nahuatl original; because '-ote' is a pretty common intensifier ending in Spanish (gordote, buenote, etc.). On the other hand, 'cuachalote' doesn't appear to be used anywhere except Mexico City and point north, which does tend to point to a Nahuatl connection. David Frye From cihuatl at EARTHLINK.NET Fri May 21 15:06:02 2004 From: cihuatl at EARTHLINK.NET (Joanna M. Sanchez) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 11:06:02 -0400 Subject: Cuacha Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frye, David" To: Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 10:05 AM Subject: Re: Cuacha On the other hand, 'cuachalote' doesn't appear to be used anywhere except Mexico City and point north, which does tend to point to a Nahuatl connection. Sadly, other Nahua culture areas have been largely neglected by North American anthropology. The regional Nahuatl dialect of the multiethnic pre-contact border regions of Jalisco (Zapotiltic, Cd. Tuxpan, Teotitlan, Tamazula, Tonila), which appears to have been influenced by Popoluca, Chocho and P'urehpecha (perhaps explaining the variant 'cuacholote' pronunciation), is fast expiring but still very much present in colloquialisms. This, too, would also support a Nahuatl origin for the term. There is at present a government-inspired language revitalization movement in Tuxpan specifically, interestingly opposed by local purists who resent the Huasteca Nahuatl of instruction as an idiom foreign to the local form. Tuxpan was missionized by Juan de Padilla in 1530 shortly before his death in Quiriva, and never underwent recongregacion (see work on multiethnic identity by Jose Lameiras). In the 40's, the parish priest Sr. Cura Melquiades Ruvalcaba compiled a gramatica of the dialect, and J. Ma. Arreola a vocabulario, for those who might be interested. Joanna From schwallr at mrs.umn.edu Sat May 22 15:54:15 2004 From: schwallr at mrs.umn.edu (John F. Schwaller) Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 10:54:15 CDT Subject: UNSUSCRIBE mexica@lycos.es Message-ID: Favor de eviar este mensaje a la direccion listserv at lists.umn.edu su forma es unsub nahuat-l On 19 May 2004, Netza Latrans wrote: > UNSUSCRIBE mexica at lycos.es > > ______________________________________________________ > ?Echas de menos tus d?as de cole? Comparte tus aventuras de aquellos a?os > en http://antiguosalumnos.lycos.es > > John F. Schwaller Vice Chancellor for Academic Affairs and Dean University of Minnesota, Morris 600 E. 4th Street Morris, MN 56267 320-589-6015 Fax 320-589-6399 From Norbert.Francis at NAU.EDU Sun May 23 00:32:52 2004 From: Norbert.Francis at NAU.EDU (Norbert Francis) Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 17:32:52 -0700 Subject: Call for papers - Indigenous languages Message-ID: Indigenous Languages 1-MAY-2005 C A L L F O R P A P E R S International Journal of Bilingual Education and Bilingualism (General Editor: Colin Baker, University of Wales at Bangor) SPECIAL ISSUE ON INDIGENOUS LANGUAGE BILINGUALISM Guest Editor: Norbert Francis, Northern Arizona University FOCUS Manuscripts are being requested for the upcoming special issue of the International Journal of Bilingual Education and Bilingualism on Indigenous Language Bilingualism. The focus of the special issue will be on research reports from field studies of bilingualism and language learning, aspects of language use and language competence, and research applied to both educational contexts and language development in general involving indigenous language communities and indigenous cultures. Papers should be reports on an actual empirical study, or a theoretical discussion or review of literature that references empirical work in the field. A broad range of theoretical and methodological approaches is to be included, from: educational linguistics, psycholinguistics, sociolinguistics, anthropological studies of language and education, and work from experimental, controlled-descriptive, and ethnographic approaches. Aspects of language development and language use focused on either the indigenous language or the national language or both, children and/or adults, in school and/or extracurricular-community settings are being solicited. SUGGESTED TOPICS Reports, reviews, and discussions related to the study of indigenous languages from the following areas of research are especially welcome: -Literacy learning (indigenous language and/or national language) -Written language, writing systems -Oral tradition -Narrative development -Analysis of narrative, ceremonial, poetic, pedagogic, oral history genres -Second language learning of indigenous and/or national languages -Language preservation/revitalization -First or second language attrition, language shift -Bilingual instructional models, indigenous languages in content area teaching -Classroom interaction, academic achievement -Cross-cultural communication, discourse analysis -Development of pragmatic knowledge -Grammatical aspects of bilingual development (phonology, morphology, syntax, semantics) -Bilingualism and cognition, metalinguistic awareness -Early childhood bilingualism, L1 acquisition of indigenous languages -Intergenerational transmission -Late L2 learning of indigenous languages -Research methodology, language assessment -Codeswitching, borrowing, mixing -Crosslinguistic influence, transfer, language processing -Language variation, language change Authors may, if they wish, send an abstract and introductory section of a proposed paper to the guest editor to receive initial observations regarding suitability for the special issue theme, final acceptance subject to a full review of the completed paper. SUBMISSION FORMAT Papers should be original, previously unpublished research, approximately 6,000 - 7,000 words, in English. Guidelines for authors can be found at http://www.multilingual-matters.com/ Then click: Journals info ? International Journal of Bilingual Education and Bilingualism ? General Guidelines for Authors of Journal Papers. Interested persons should feel free to send any inquiry related to this project to the guest editor. Send your submission (preferably as a Word file attached to an email message), prepared for anonymous review, to: norbert.francis at nau.edu or by post to: Norbert Francis College of Education, P.O. Box 5774 Northern Arizona University Flagstaff, Arizona 86001, USA Please indicate a return address and/or email, including institutional affiliation, of the primary author. An electronic version of your paper, if accepted, will be required. IMPORTANT DATES Paper submissions: May 1, 2005 Notification of acceptance: August 30, 2005 Final versions due: November 30, 2005 -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From micc2 at COX.NET Thu May 27 20:59:03 2004 From: micc2 at COX.NET (micc2) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 13:59:03 -0700 Subject: Cuacha In-Reply-To: Message-ID: No but maybe it is not a Nahuatl derivative? Matthew Montchalin wrote: >micc2 wrote: >|"If you have studied Classical Latin, you naturally know about stercus >|and fimum, neither of which have the slightest similarity to the Spanish >|'caca.'" >| >|However we do use the word "estierco" for cow manure. > >Ah, good to learn that. (Certo alienus vel ignarus hispanicae linguae >sum, nimirum Hispanicam nescio.) > >But can you suggest an etymology for kwacha? I am grasping at straws >when I suggest things like Latin quatio (or its frequentative form >quasso). I would only observe that the consonant found in the middle >can shift a little, as if palatalizing, perhaps even turn into ch. > > > From mmontcha at OREGONVOS.NET Thu May 27 22:19:49 2004 From: mmontcha at OREGONVOS.NET (Matthew Montchalin) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 15:19:49 -0700 Subject: Cuacha In-Reply-To: <40B65697.2060608@cox.net> Message-ID: micc2 top-posted: |No but maybe it is not a Nahuatl derivative? | |Matthew Montchalin wrote: | |>micc2 wrote: |>|"If you have studied Classical Latin, you naturally know about stercus |>|and fimum, neither of which have the slightest similarity to the Spanish |>|'caca.'" |>| |>|However we do use the word "estierco" for cow manure. |> |>Ah, good to learn that. (Certo alienus vel ignarus hispanicae linguae |>sum, nimirum Hispanicam nescio.) |> |>But can you suggest an etymology for kwacha? I am grasping at straws |>when I suggest things like Latin quatio (or its frequentative form |>quasso). I would only observe that the consonant found in the middle |>can shift a little, as if palatalizing, perhaps even turn into ch. And how would an objective person go about finding out whether kwacha or kwacho is of a native Nawatl origin, short of examining the leads where one finds them? I suggested the Latin participle quasso because it sounds kind of like kwacho, especially if something happens to the double 's' in the middle. As you seem to be implying, a host of European-sounding words don't match up, where else should one go to find an alternative? From a.appleyard at BTINTERNET.COM Thu May 27 22:57:44 2004 From: a.appleyard at BTINTERNET.COM (=?iso-8859-1?q?ANTHONY=20APPLEYARD?=) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 23:57:44 +0100 Subject: Cuacha In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Human and animal faeces (and related things such as toilets) get an astonishing variety of slang and euphemistic names with all sorts of strange literal meanings in English, and likely the same happened in Nahuatl-speaking Mexico. We may have to look far afield and a long way to find the answer here. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From micc2 at COX.NET Thu May 27 23:12:31 2004 From: micc2 at COX.NET (micc2) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 16:12:31 -0700 Subject: Cuacha In-Reply-To: Message-ID: ..." As you seem to be implying, a host of European-sounding words don't match up, where else should one go to find an alternative?..." I would imaging that any self respecting Criollo or peninsular would not use "slang" even if it were derived from latin. So where does that lead us? Maybe any number of indigenous languages? African languages brought by slaves? the possibilities are endless and exciting. Several years ago we had an interesting and informative discussion on the use of "ecole ecua" in Central Mexico.... turns out it is Italian!!!! mario Matthew Montchalin wrote: >micc2 top-posted: >|No but maybe it is not a Nahuatl derivative? >| >|Matthew Montchalin wrote: >| >|>micc2 wrote: >|>|"If you have studied Classical Latin, you naturally know about stercus >|>|and fimum, neither of which have the slightest similarity to the Spanish >|>|'caca.'" >|>| >|>|However we do use the word "estierco" for cow manure. >|> >|>Ah, good to learn that. (Certo alienus vel ignarus hispanicae linguae >|>sum, nimirum Hispanicam nescio.) >|> >|>But can you suggest an etymology for kwacha? I am grasping at straws >|>when I suggest things like Latin quatio (or its frequentative form >|>quasso). I would only observe that the consonant found in the middle >|>can shift a little, as if palatalizing, perhaps even turn into ch. > >And how would an objective person go about finding out whether kwacha >or kwacho is of a native Nawatl origin, short of examining the leads >where one finds them? I suggested the Latin participle quasso because >it sounds kind of like kwacho, especially if something happens to the >double 's' in the middle. > >As you seem to be implying, a host of European-sounding words don't match >up, where else should one go to find an alternative? > > > From cihuatl at EARTHLINK.NET Fri May 28 17:39:19 2004 From: cihuatl at EARTHLINK.NET (Joanna M. Sanchez) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 13:39:19 -0400 Subject: Cuacha Message-ID: It is certainly not unthinkable that a convergence between an original Nahuatl compound and an introduced term could have occurred over time by virtue of strong phonological and semantic similarity. And the widely reported cha- is perhaps a shift from xo-/zo- owing to stress on the following -lo- syllable. But I still cannot help but think that cuach[a/o]lote is derived from Nahuatl, with possible etymologies being: cua(i)tl + xolotl or cua(i)tl + zoloa Rather than reflecting an unhealthy indulgence of exoticism, an hypothesis of Nahua origin is reasonable for a number of reasons, not the least of which is the productivity of cua(i)tl when referring to one's sensibility (or lack thereof). Being dirty certainly had 'moral' connotations for the Nahua, a condition bearing on an individual's sensibility. 'Naturally' enough, terms for crazy or confused use cua(itl): cuatlapololiztli (madness) combines "head" with "lose; destroy." Yet more notably, cua(i)tl is used in cuatatapah, "disheveled person," with tatapahtli being "worn out fabric." Xolotl is also used in a variety of compounds (axolotl, mexolotl, xolochaui ), that can mean "doubled over; wrinkled" in a sense that implies physical deformity or dissaray, as precolumbian images of a ragged and deformed Xolotl bear out. Xolotl had a canine identity, and dogs were strongly associated with filth. This seems consistent with the modern meanings reported (dirty/disheveled). Further, xolopihtli (idiot; tonto) reinforces a reported semantic value, namely one untalented in either deed or appearance. Zoloa, "wear something out," and ihzoloa, "abase, mistreat," are words that can also be associated with Nahua conceptions of 'filth' (according to Burkhart's examination of tlahzolli, "garbage") by referring to matter that has lost its ordered structure. In any event, the word is widely used in Nahua regions of Jalisco, in addition to Mexico City and points north, further supportive of an indigenous origin. Joanna ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matthew Montchalin" To: Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 6:19 PM Subject: Re: Cuacha > micc2 top-posted: > |No but maybe it is not a Nahuatl derivative? > | > |Matthew Montchalin wrote: > | > |>micc2 wrote: > |>|"If you have studied Classical Latin, you naturally know about stercus > |>|and fimum, neither of which have the slightest similarity to the Spanish > |>|'caca.'" > |>| > |>|However we do use the word "estierco" for cow manure. > |> > |>Ah, good to learn that. (Certo alienus vel ignarus hispanicae linguae > |>sum, nimirum Hispanicam nescio.) > |> > |>But can you suggest an etymology for kwacha? I am grasping at straws > |>when I suggest things like Latin quatio (or its frequentative form > |>quasso). I would only observe that the consonant found in the middle > |>can shift a little, as if palatalizing, perhaps even turn into ch. > > And how would an objective person go about finding out whether kwacha > or kwacho is of a native Nawatl origin, short of examining the leads > where one finds them? I suggested the Latin participle quasso because > it sounds kind of like kwacho, especially if something happens to the > double 's' in the middle. > > As you seem to be implying, a host of European-sounding words don't match > up, where else should one go to find an alternative? From mdmorris at INDIANA.EDU Fri May 28 18:33:40 2004 From: mdmorris at INDIANA.EDU (Mark David Morris) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 13:33:40 -0500 Subject: Cuacha In-Reply-To: <001f01c444da$b6707880$a6a35b40@o9l8c6> Message-ID: Johanna and all, I don't have a Purepecha dictionary handy to check on the etymology of "cuacha" that David Frye cited from Santamaria, but given this term's association with Jalisco and the northwest, I don't think it is unlikely that it could be a hybrid of cuacha and xolotl. Most of the hybrids I know of are rooted in very early eras of Nahuatl's introduction into central Mesoamerica, but western Michoacan and Jalisco have had a different cultural-linguistic dynamic, one that was still in flux even in the postclassic and continued to be under colonial rule. I would think that some of the linguistic works on Jalisco and Michoacan, from Agustin de la Rosa, Davila Garibay etc. would give an idea whether there is a history of hybridization between Nahuatl, Purepecha and other languages in the region. At least calling a dirty kid a "filthy doll" makes more sense to me than anything Nahuatl roots alone suggests. best, Mark Morris ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ La muerte tiene permiso a todo MDM, PhD Candidate Dept. of History, Indiana Univ. From campbel at INDIANA.EDU Sat May 29 04:51:05 2004 From: campbel at INDIANA.EDU (r. joe campbell) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 23:51:05 -0500 Subject: Cuacha In-Reply-To: <001f01c444da$b6707880$a6a35b40@o9l8c6> Message-ID: Joanna, I don't know why people are attracted to the study of language morphology, but there are lots of kinds of people out there -- some just care about *what* a document says, without regard for the mechanics of *how* it says it, some like to draw fascinating maps of subtle pronunciations from to town, and others like to take educated guesses at how a language (or a family of them developed through time). My Dad never quite decided whether 1) poking a seed in the ground and helping it grow or 2) understanding everything about electricity was more interesting. But when I entered graduate school and found a large box full of Spanish morphology notes by Sol Saporta stuck back in a old cupboard, I discovered what to do with my available time -- as Willie Nelson says, "I'm just doin' what I would do if nobody was paying me fer it." And now retired, I can prove that I mean it. Nahuatl morphology is (I always say) like handball -- even a beginner can derive a lot of satisfaction from since the ball keeps coming back to you. But as you practice and practice, you find that there was more to it than seemed at first; the more you dig (pardon the mixed metaphor), the richer it gets, so you're never bored -- the carrot is always there. Your message contained several ideas and you will find agreement and disagreement, but I thought that I'd just send along some relevant data about them. "ihzolihui" and "zolli" are (seem to me) that they show the closest chance of relationship. I wouldn't say that about "xolochtli" and "xolotl", since I'm more morphologically conversative that some people -- on the other hand, I like to feed on the ideas of people who are more willing to take chances. Relevant stuff follows in separate messages. All the best, Motocayo Joe On Fri, 28 May 2004, Joanna M. Sanchez wrote: > It is certainly not unthinkable that a convergence between an original > Nahuatl compound and an introduced term could have occurred over time by > virtue of strong phonological and semantic similarity. And the widely > reported cha- is perhaps a shift from xo-/zo- owing to stress on the > following -lo- syllable. But I still cannot help but think that > cuach[a/o]lote is derived from Nahuatl, with possible etymologies being: > > cua(i)tl + xolotl or cua(i)tl + zoloa > > Rather than reflecting an unhealthy indulgence of exoticism, an > hypothesis of Nahua origin is reasonable for a number of reasons, not the > least of which is the productivity of cua(i)tl when referring to one's > sensibility (or lack thereof). Being dirty certainly had 'moral' > connotations for the Nahua, a condition bearing on an individual's > sensibility. 'Naturally' enough, terms for crazy or confused use cua(itl): > cuatlapololiztli (madness) combines "head" with "lose; destroy." Yet more > notably, cua(i)tl is used in cuatatapah, "disheveled person," with > tatapahtli being "worn out fabric." > > Xolotl is also used in a variety of compounds (axolotl, mexolotl, > xolochaui ), that can mean "doubled over; wrinkled" in a sense that implies > physical deformity or dissaray, as precolumbian images of a ragged and > deformed Xolotl bear out. Xolotl had a canine identity, and dogs were > strongly associated with filth. This seems consistent with the modern > meanings reported (dirty/disheveled). Further, xolopihtli (idiot; tonto) > reinforces a reported semantic value, namely one untalented in either deed > or appearance. > > Zoloa, "wear something out," and ihzoloa, "abase, mistreat," are words > that can also be associated with Nahua conceptions of 'filth' (according to > Burkhart's examination of tlahzolli, "garbage") by referring to matter that > has lost its ordered structure. > > In any event, the word is widely used in Nahua regions of > Jalisco, in addition to Mexico City and points north, further supportive of > an indigenous origin. Joanna > From campbel at INDIANA.EDU Sat May 29 04:53:38 2004 From: campbel at INDIANA.EDU (r. joe campbell) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 23:53:38 -0500 Subject: ihzolihui Message-ID: * ihzolihui caus06 *** cochizoloa =nino. desuelar se. 55m-6. cochizoloa =nino. velar. 71m1-20. cochizoloa =nino=oninocochizolo. desuelarse, o desechar el sue?o. 71m2- 4. cochizoloa =nite. desuelar a otro para que no duerma. 55m-6. cochizoloa =nite=onitecochizolo. quitar el sue?o a otro. 71m2-4. cochizololli =tla. desuelado. 55m-6. cochizololli =tla. desuelado por le auer otros quitado el sue?o. 71m2- 20. izolo =te. cosa que ensuzia. 55m-4. izolo =te. cosa que ensuzia. 71m1-6. izolo =te. cosa que ensuzia. metaphora. 71m2-16. izoloa =nin. enuilecerse por los vicios. 55m-8. izoloa =nin. enuilecerse y apocarse por los vicios. 71m1-10. izoloa =nin=. desonrarse, o apocarse y aceuilarse. 71m2-6. izoloa =niqu. ensuziar la ropa o maltatalla. 71m1-10. izoloa =niqu. enuegecer algo. 71m1-10. izoloa =niqu=oniquizolo. maltratar o enuejecer las cosas dichas. 71m2- 6. izoloa =nitla=onitlazolo. enuejecer ropa, o cosa semejante. 71m2-4. * ihzolihui cochi *** cochizoloa =nino. desuelar se. 55m-6. cochizoloa =nino. velar. 71m1-20. cochizoloa =nino=oninocochizolo. desuelarse, o desechar el sue?o. 71m2- 4. cochizoloa =nite. desuelar a otro para que no duerma. 55m-6. cochizoloa =nite=onitecochizolo. quitar el sue?o a otro. 71m2-4. cochizololli =tla. desuelado. 55m-6. cochizololli =tla. desuelado por le auer otros quitado el sue?o. 71m2- 20. * ihzolihui l1 *** cochizololli =tla. desuelado. 55m-6. cochizololli =tla. desuelado por le auer otros quitado el sue?o. 71m2- 20. * ihzolihui l2 *** cochizoloa =nino. desuelar se. 55m-6. cochizoloa =nino. velar. 71m1-20. cochizoloa =nite. desuelar a otro para que no duerma. 55m-6. cochizololli =tla. desuelado. 55m-6. From campbel at INDIANA.EDU Sat May 29 04:54:10 2004 From: campbel at INDIANA.EDU (r. joe campbell) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 23:54:10 -0500 Subject: zolli Message-ID: * zolli a:matl *** amazolli. papel viejo. 71m2-1. * zolli cactli *** caczol =to. callos de los pies. 55m-2. caczol =to. callos delos pies. 71m2-25. caczolchichiuhqui. el que remienda zapatos. 71m2-2. caczolchichiuhqui. remendon ?apatero. 55m-17. caczolehuayotl. los callos delos pies. 71m2-2. caczolehui =ni. callos tener assi. 55m-2. caczolehui =ni=onicaczoleuh. tener callos en los pies. 71m2-2. caczolli. callos delos pies. 71m2-2. * zolli calli *** calzolli. casa vieja. 71m2-2. xacalzolli. casa vieja de paja. 71m2-27. * zolli chi:hua *** caczolchichiuhqui. el que remienda zapatos. 71m2-2. caczolchichiuhqui. remendon ?apatero. 55m-17. * zolli co:a:tl *** petlazolcoatl. ciento pies gusano. 55m-4. petlazolcoatl. ciento pies. 71m1-6. petlazolcoatl. ciento pies. 71m2-14. zolcoatl. biuora muy ponzo?osa. 71m2-4. * zolli co:mitl *** conzolli. cuna de ni?os, o cantaro y vasija vieja. 71m2-4. * zolli cua:itl *** cuapetlazol. desmelenado. 55m-5. cuapetlazol. desmelenado. 71m2-14. * zolli e:huatl *** caczolehuayotl. los callos delos pies. 71m2-2. caczolehui =ni=onicaczoleuh. tener callos en los pies. 71m2-2. * zolli hui:pi:lli *** huipilzolli. camisa vieja de india. 71m2-27. * zolli l1 *** tenzolhuilli =tla. sobornado. 55m-18. tenzolhuilli =tla. sobornado. 71m1-19. tenzolhuilli =tla. sobornado. 71m2-23. * zolli ni1 *** tenzolhuiani =te. sobornador. 55m-18. tenzolhuiani =te. sobornador. 71m1-19. tenzolhuiani =te. sobornador, o cohechador. 71m2-18. tenzolpotoniani =te. sobornador. 71m2-18. * zolli petlatl *** cuapetlazol. desmelenado. 55m-5. cuapetlazol. desmelenado. 71m2-14. petlazolcoatl. ciento pies gusano. 55m-4. petlazolcoatl. ciento pies. 71m1-6. petlazolcoatl. ciento pies. 71m2-14. * zolli poss *** caczol =to. callos de los pies. 55m-2. caczol =to. callos delos pies. 71m2-25. * zolli poto:ni *** tenzolpotoniani =te. sobornador. 71m2-18. tenzolpotoniliztli =te. soborno. 71m2-18. * zolli te:ntli *** tenzolhuiani =te. sobornador. 55m-18. tenzolhuiani =te. sobornador. 71m1-19. tenzolhuiani =te. sobornador, o cohechador. 71m2-18. tenzolhuiliztli =te. soborno. 55m-18. tenzolhuiliztli =te. soborno. 71m1-19. tenzolhuiliztli =te. soborno. 71m2-18. tenzolhuilli =tla. sobornado. 55m-18. tenzolhuilli =tla. sobornado. 71m1-19. tenzolhuilli =tla. sobornado. 71m2-23. tenzolpotoniani =te. sobornador. 71m2-18. tenzolpotoniliztli =te. soborno. 71m2-18. tezzolhuia =nite. sobornar. 71m1-19. * zolli trunc *** cuapetlazol. desmelenado. 55m-5. * zolli v05b *** tenzolhuiani =te. sobornador. 55m-18. tenzolhuiani =te. sobornador. 71m1-19. tenzolhuiliztli =te. soborno. 55m-18. tenzolhuiliztli =te. soborno. 71m1-19. tenzolhuilli =tla. sobornado. 55m-18. tenzolhuilli =tla. sobornado. 71m1-19. tezzolhuia =nite. sobornar. 71m1-19. From campbel at INDIANA.EDU Sat May 29 04:54:55 2004 From: campbel at INDIANA.EDU (r. joe campbell) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 23:54:55 -0500 Subject: xolochtli Message-ID: * xolochtli caus06 *** tlanxolochalhuia =nite. rifar los cauallos. 55m-17. tlanxolochalhuia =nite. rifar los cauallos. 71m1-18. tlanxolochalhuiani =te. rifadora cosa. 55m-17. tlanxolochalhuiani =te. rifadora cosa. 71m1-18. tlanxolochoa =ni. rega?ar. 55m-17. tlanxolochoa =ni. rega?ar. 71m1-18. xolochalhuia =nitetla. arrugar o plegar algo a otro. 71m1-3. xolochalhuia =nitetla=onitetlaxolochalhui. plegar o arrugar algo a otro. 71m2-27. xolocho =tla. arrugador assi. 71m1-3. xolochoa =nitla. arrugar algo. 55m-1. xolochoa =nitla. arrugar o plegar algo. 71m1-3. xolochoa =nitla. encoger como costura. 55m-7. xolochoa =nitla. plegar. 55m-16. xolochoa =nitla. plegar. 71m1-17. xolochoani =tla. arrugador assi. 71m1-3. xolocholiztli =tla. encogimiento tal. 55m-7. xolocholiztli =tla. plegadura. 55m-16. xolocholiztli =tla. arrugadura tal. 71m1-3. xolocholiztli =tla. plegadura. 71m1-17. xolocholli =tla. arrugada cosa. 71m1-3. xolocholli =tla. encogido assi. 55m-7. xolocholli =tla. plegada cosa. 55m-16. xolocholli =tla. plegada cosa. 71m1-17. xolochoqui =tla. arrugador assi. 71m1-3. xoxolochoa =nitla. arrugar o plegar algo. 71m1-3. xoxolochoani =tla. arrugador assi. 71m1-3. xoxolocholiztli =tla. arrugadura tal. 71m1-3. xoxolocholli =tla. arrugada cosa. 71m1-3. * xolochtli l1 *** xolocholli =tla. arrugada cosa. 71m1-3. xolocholli =tla. cosa plegada o arrugada. 71m2-25. xolocholli =tla. encogido assi. 55m-7. xolocholli =tla. plegada cosa. 55m-16. xolocholli =tla. plegada cosa. 71m1-17. xoxolocholli =tla. arrugada cosa. 71m1-3. * xolochtli ni1 *** tlanxolochalhuiani =te. rifadora cosa. 55m-17. tlanxolochalhuiani =te. rifadora cosa. 71m1-18. xolochoani =tla. arrugador assi. 71m1-3. xoxolochoani =tla. arrugador assi. 71m1-3. * xolochtli te:ntli *** tenxolochahui. boluerse los filos. 55m-2. tenxolochahui ==otenxolochauh. boluerse los filos al cuchillo, o plegarse la orilla dela ropa, o arrugarse la estremidad de alguna cosa. 71m2-17. * xolochtli tla:lia: *** xolochtlalia =nitla. plegar. 71m1-17. xolochtlalia =nitla=onitlaxolochtlali. plegar, o arrugar algo. 71m2- 27. * xolochtli tlantli *** tlanxolochalhuia =nite. rifar los cauallos. 55m-17. tlanxolochalhuia =nite. rifar los cauallos. 71m1-18. tlanxolochalhuiani =te. rifadora cosa. 55m-17. tlanxolochalhuiani =te. rifadora cosa. 71m1-18. tlanxolochoa =ni. rega?ar. 71m1-18. tlanxolochoa =ni=onitlanxolocho. rega?ar, mostrando los dientes como haze el perro. 71m2-22. * xolochtli v03 *** xolochahuiliztli. arrugamiento tal. 71m1-3. * xolochtli v03b *** tenxolochahui. boluerse los filos. 55m-2. tenxolochahui ==otenxolochauh. boluerse los filos al cuchillo, o plegarse la orilla dela ropa, o arrugarse la estremidad de alguna cosa. 71m2-17. tlanxolochalhuia =nite. rifar los cauallos. 55m-17. tlanxolochalhuia =nite. rifar los cauallos. 71m1-18. tlanxolochalhuiani =te. rifadora cosa. 55m-17. tlanxolochalhuiani =te. rifadora cosa. 71m1-18. tlanxolochoa =ni. rega?ar. 55m-17. tlanxolochoa =ni. rega?ar. 71m1-18. tlanxolochoa =ni=onitlanxolocho. rega?ar, mostrando los dientes como haze el perro. 71m2-22. xolochahui. arrugarse persona. 55m-1. xolochahui. encogerse assi. 55m-7. xolochahui =ni. arrugarse alguno o alguna. 71m1-3. xolochahui =ni=onixolochauh. arrugarse de vejez. 71m2-27. xolochalhuia =nitetla. arrugar o plegar algo a otro. 71m1-3. xolochalhuia =nitetla=onitetlaxolochalhui. plegar o arrugar algo a otro. 71m2-27. xolochauhqui. arrugado assi. 71m1-3. xolocho =tla. arrugador assi. 71m1-3. xolochoa =nitla. arrugar algo. 55m-1. xolochoa =nitla. arrugar o plegar algo. 71m1-3. xolochoa =nitla. encoger como costura. 55m-7. xolochoa =nitla. plegar. 55m-16. xolochoa =nitla. plegar. 71m1-17. xolochoa =nitla=onitlaxolocho. arrugar, o plegar algo. 71m2-27. xolochoani =tla. arrugador assi. 71m1-3. xolocholiztli =tla. arrugadura tal. 71m1-3. xolocholiztli =tla. encogimiento tal. 55m-7. xolocholiztli =tla. plegadura. 55m-16. xolocholiztli =tla. plegadura. 71m1-17. xolocholiztli =tla. plegadura o arrugadura. s. el acto de plegar o arrugar algo. 71m2-25. xolocholli =tla. arrugada cosa. 71m1-3. xolocholli =tla. cosa plegada o arrugada. 71m2-25. xolocholli =tla. encogido assi. 55m-7. xolocholli =tla. plegada cosa. 55m-16. xolocholli =tla. plegada cosa. 71m1-17. xolochoqui =tla. arrugador assi. 71m1-3. xoxolochoa =nitla. arrugar o plegar algo. 71m1-3. xoxolochoani =tla. arrugador assi. 71m1-3. xoxolocholiztli =tla. arrugadura tal. 71m1-3. xoxolocholli =tla. arrugada cosa. 71m1-3. From campbel at INDIANA.EDU Sat May 29 04:55:51 2004 From: campbel at INDIANA.EDU (r. joe campbell) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 23:55:51 -0500 Subject: xo:lo:tl Message-ID: * xo:lo:tl cuahuitl *** cuauhtexolotl. mano de mortero. 71m2-15. tencuauhxolotl. desenfrenado o de mala lengua. 55m-5. tencuauhxolotl. hombre de mala lengua. 71m2-17. * xo:lo:tl e:lli *** huexoloeltzotzolli. papada de gallo. 55m-15. huexoloeltzotzolli. papada de gallo. 71m1-16. * xo:lo:tl hue:i *** huexoloeltzotzolli. papada de gallo. 55m-15. huexoloeltzotzolli. papada de gallo. 71m1-16. huexolotl. gallo. 55m-10. huexolotl. gallo. 71m2-27. * xo:lo:tl lo:2 *** texolohuiloni =tla. majadero tal. 55m-13. texolohuiloni =tla. mortero. 55m-14. * xo:lo:tl ni1 *** texolohuiani =tla. el que maja algo con mano de mortero. 71m2-23. texolohuiani =tla. majador assi. 55m-13. texolohuiloni =tla. majadero tal. 55m-13. texolohuiloni =tla. mano de mortero o de almirez. 71m2-23. texolohuiloni =tla. mortero. 55m-14. tlanxolochhuiani =te. el que rega?a o muestra los dientes, y gru?e como perro. 71m2-18. * xo:lo:tl poss *** xolouh =te. criado que sirue o acompa?a. 71m1-6. xolouh =te. criado, mozo o paje. 71m2-19. xolouh =te. mo?o de seruicio. 55m-14. xolouh =te. paje. 71m1-16. * xo:lo:tl te:ntli *** tencuauhxolotl. desenfrenado o de mala lengua. 55m-5. tencuauhxolotl. hombre de mala lengua. 71m2-17. * xo:lo:tl tetl1 *** cuauhtexolotl. mano de mortero. 71m2-15. texolohuia =nitla. majar^con ma?o o ma?a. 55m-13. texolohuia =nitla [scribal error: +mis-analysis: 55m]. majar con majadero. 55m-13. texolohuia =nitla=onitlatexolohui. majar algo con majadero de piedra. 71m2-19. texolohuiani =tla. el que maja algo con mano de mortero. 71m2-23. texolohuiani =tla. majador assi. 55m-13. texolohuiliztli =tla. molimiento de qualquier cosa que se maja o muele. 55m-20. texolohuiloni =tla. majadero tal. 55m-13. texolohuiloni =tla. mano de mortero o de almirez. 71m2-23. texolohuiloni =tla. mortero. 55m-14. texolotl [scribal error: ??no period between tlatexolouiloni and texolotl: 55m]. majadero tal. 55m-13. * xo:lo:tl tilmahtli *** xolotilmatli. librea de vestir. 55m-12. xoxolotilmatli. librea de vestir. 55m-12. * xo:lo:tl tilmatli *** xolotilmatli. librea de pajes. 71m2-27. xoxolo tilmatli. librea de pajes. 71m2-27. * xo:lo:tl tlantli *** tlanxolochhuiani =te. el que rega?a o muestra los dientes, y gru?e como perro. 71m2-18. * xo:lo:tl trunc *** xolo. criado que sirue o acompa?a. 71m1-6. xolo. sieruo. 71m1-19. * xo:lo:tl tzo:lli *** huexoloeltzotzolli. papada de gallo. 55m-15. huexoloeltzotzolli. papada de gallo. 71m1-16. * xo:lo:tl uh *** xolouh =te. criado que sirue o acompa?a. 71m1-6. xolouh =te. mo?o de seruicio. 55m-14. xolouh =te. paje. 71m1-16. * xo:lo:tl v04 *** xoxoloti =te. chocarrero. 71m1-6. * xo:lo:tl v05b *** texolohuia =nitla. majar^con ma?o o ma?a. 55m-13. texolohuia =nitla [scribal error: +mis-analysis: 55m]. majar con majadero. 55m-13. texolohuiani =tla. majador assi. 55m-13. texolohuiliztli =tla. molimiento de qualquier cosa que se maja o muele. 55m-20. texolohuiloni =tla. majadero tal. 55m-13. texolohuiloni =tla. mortero. 55m-14. From mmontcha at OREGONVOS.NET Sat May 29 05:15:22 2004 From: mmontcha at OREGONVOS.NET (Matthew Montchalin) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 22:15:22 -0700 Subject: xo:lo:tl In-Reply-To: Message-ID: r. joe campbell wrote: How about translating your litany of Spanish equivalencies into something the rest of us might find digestible? I'll cast my vote for German or Classical Latin. From micc2 at COX.NET Sat May 29 06:50:46 2004 From: micc2 at COX.NET (micc2) Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 23:50:46 -0700 Subject: xo:lo:tl In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Better yet, since you appear to be interested in Nahuatl, which is one of the native languages of Mexico (where sadly Spanish is the official language), and much has been written in Castilian about Nahuatl over the past 400 years (ESPECIALLY THE IMPORTANT DICTIONARIES AND GRAMMARS DURING THE POST CONQUEST PERIOD), you should learn Spanish and forgo the "dead" language of Latin. As for German......................... enough said :) mario aguilar www.mexicayotl.org Matthew Montchalin wrote: >r. joe campbell wrote: > > > >How about translating your litany of Spanish equivalencies into something >the rest of us might find digestible? > >I'll cast my vote for German or Classical Latin. > > > From schwallr at mrs.umn.edu Sun May 30 15:18:48 2004 From: schwallr at mrs.umn.edu (John F. Schwaller) Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 10:18:48 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Posting to list re cuacha Message-ID: Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 16:42:46 -0500 From: Karen Dakin Subject: Posting to list re cuacha >Is it >possible to post the message below? Thanks very much. >Karen Dakin > > >Just to add a bit to the discussion -- I checked Pablo Velasquez >Gallardo's >Diccionario de la lengua phorhepecha, (Tarascan) published in 1978 by the >Fondo de Cultura >Economica in Mexico, and found the following: > >kuatsita.. Excremento. > >kuatsinda. Resina del tronco seco de pino. >kuatsingatarakua icherir. Bacinica de barro. >kuatsintani. Cuando el polen del maiz se ha caido. >kuatsirakua. Ano >kuatsitakua. Copal (Elaphritum jorullense H.B.K.). >kuatsitas kamatarhu anapu. Epazote (Chenopodium ambrosioides L. Planta >medicinal). >kuatsites iojkurha. Epazote (Chenopodium ambrosioides L. Planta >medicinal). > >A Phorhepecha specialist would have to analyze the morphology, but at least >it looks initially as though kuatsita could be the source of 'cuacha'. > >Karen Dakin > From institute at CSUMB.EDU Sun May 30 15:19:22 2004 From: institute at CSUMB.EDU (Archaeology Institute) Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 08:19:22 -0700 Subject: Fwd: Posting to list re cuacha Message-ID: Thank you for your message. I will be away from June 2nd through August 20th. If you have an urgent matter that you would like to communicate, please contact Lilly Martinez by voice mail at 831-582-4364. From mmccaffe at INDIANA.EDU Sun May 30 17:18:06 2004 From: mmccaffe at INDIANA.EDU (Michael Mccafferty) Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 12:18:06 -0500 Subject: quetzalli In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.0.20040530101449.034552a8@schwallr.email.umn.edu> Message-ID: Does anyone know why a quetzal feather is "it is something stood up," i.e., que:tzalli? tlaxtlahui, mochihuantin, Michael From a.appleyard at BTINTERNET.COM Sun May 30 17:57:39 2004 From: a.appleyard at BTINTERNET.COM (=?iso-8859-1?q?ANTHONY=20APPLEYARD?=) Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 18:57:39 +0100 Subject: quetzalli In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Michael Mccafferty wrote: > Does anyone know why a quetzal feather is "it is something stood up," > i.e., que:tzalli? tlaxtlahui, mochihuantin, Michael It was likely originally a feather-workers' word meaning "any sort of long ornamental feather that is stiff enough to stand vertical and ornamental enough to be used as a feature in decoration", and then "THE SPECIAL sort of such ornamental feather". -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From harper at WAYPT.COM Sun May 30 17:50:45 2004 From: harper at WAYPT.COM (David Fagan) Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 10:50:45 -0700 Subject: Uto-Aztecan linguistics bibliography Message-ID: Other than indices of journals such as IJAL, Anthropological Linguistics, etc., is there a bibliographic source dealing with UA linguistics which is updated frequently? From mmccaffe at INDIANA.EDU Sun May 30 18:23:03 2004 From: mmccaffe at INDIANA.EDU (Michael Mccafferty) Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 13:23:03 -0500 Subject: quetzalli In-Reply-To: <20040530175739.30237.qmail@web86312.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks, Anthony. Much appreciated. On Sun, 30 May 2004, [iso-8859-1] ANTHONY APPLEYARD wrote: > > It was likely originally a feather-workers' word meaning "any sort of long ornamental feather that is stiff enough to stand vertical and ornamental enough to be used as a feature in decoration", and then "THE SPECIAL sort of such ornamental feather". > > From micc2 at COX.NET Mon May 31 05:54:39 2004 From: micc2 at COX.NET (micc2) Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 22:54:39 -0700 Subject: quetzalli In-Reply-To: Message-ID: perhaps from quetza "to rise up" as in when a quetzall bird rises up into the air and it's beautiful tail feathers hang below it like "jade flames"?????? Michael Mccafferty wrote: >Does anyone know why a quetzal feather is "it is something stood up," >i.e., que:tzalli? > >tlaxtlahui, mochihuantin, > >Michael > > >