From Xhicana at AOL.COM Sat Apr 2 21:09:06 2005 From: Xhicana at AOL.COM (Xhicana at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 16:09:06 EST Subject: Nahuatl CD Message-ID: Dustin: I received the CD and tried to read it, but my Windows XP is telling me that the disc is either corrupted or is not compatible with my system. What system does this disc work with? Let me know. Thanks! MarlaJean Moreno -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ecoling at AOL.COM Sun Apr 3 20:08:44 2005 From: ecoling at AOL.COM (Lloyd Anderson) Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2005 16:08:44 -0400 Subject: Nahuatl CD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I think you may have sent this message to the wrong address. There is no person "Dustin" here. Best wishes, Lloyd Anderson Ecological Linguistics -----Original Message----- From: Xhicana at AOL.COM To: NAHUAT-L at LISTS.UMN.EDU Sent: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 16:09:06 EST Subject: Nahuatl CD Dustin: I received the CD and tried to read it, but my Windows XP is telling me that the disc is either corrupted or is not compatible with my system. What system does this disc work with? Let me know. Thanks! MarlaJean Moreno -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pthajovs at UCHICAGO.EDU Thu Apr 7 23:35:47 2005 From: pthajovs at UCHICAGO.EDU (pthajovs at UCHICAGO.EDU) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 06:35:47 +0700 Subject: acaxilqui Message-ID: This word, acaxilqui, appears several times in Book II of the Florentine Codex (see esp. p. 71). Dibble and Anderson translate it as "scroll design". I've tried looking this word up, and parsing it in several ways, but to no avail. Does anyone have some insight into its etymology and/or how Dibble and Anderson came up with this translation? From karttu at NANTUCKET.NET Fri Apr 8 01:24:33 2005 From: karttu at NANTUCKET.NET (Frances Karttunen) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 21:24:33 -0400 Subject: acaxilqui In-Reply-To: <28d3ca74.e9806e47.81b4a00@m4500-01.uchicago.edu> Message-ID: I would hazard a guess that it literally refers to reed shavings, i.e., when you shave or peel a thin strip off a reed, it curls up. Aca-tl 'reed and xi- (a variant of xip- 'to flay, peel') Can't say for sure, however. On Apr 7, 2005, at 7:35 PM, pthajovs at UCHICAGO.EDU wrote: > This word, acaxilqui, appears several times in Book II of the > Florentine Codex (see esp. p. 71). Dibble and Anderson > translate it as "scroll design". I've tried looking this word > up, and parsing it in several ways, but to no avail. Does > anyone have some insight into its etymology and/or how Dibble > and Anderson came up with this translation? > From campbel at INDIANA.EDU Fri Apr 8 05:12:23 2005 From: campbel at INDIANA.EDU (r. joe campbell) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 00:12:23 -0500 Subject: acaxilqui In-Reply-To: <07cda3d90a82fcdaec610f6dec221ec5@nantucket.net> Message-ID: I looked carefully through M'n'M'n'M (the three Molinas) and failed to other related-looking words. I also checked Book II, FC, and Book XII... and got what I quote below. Also three snippets from the Spanish version of Book II; the Spanish version of Book XII does not give more than a brief *summary* of the contents of Chapter 19. Joe acaxilqui 1. tliltica tlacuilolli, motocayotia **acaxilqui**: [the streamers] were painted in black in what was called a scroll design. (b.2 f.3 p.74) 2. auh in motlacamati, canahuac inic quicuappachoa: zan no **acaxilqui** inic tlacuilolli: and the rich [women and girls] thus fastened thin cotton blankets [to canes] likewise painted with a scroll design. (b.2 f.3 p.74) 3. auh inic quitzitzquitihui, amatl **acaxilqui**, inic tlacuilolli: and where they went grasping [the staves] were papers painted with scroll designs. (b.2 f.3 p.75) 4. ihuan iamamaxtli, **acaxilqui** inic tlacuilolli: and they had their paper breechclouts painted with stripes. (b.2 f.10 p.164) texoacaxilqui 1. auh in ihuei (maxtli) zan amatl, yehuatl in cuahuamatl, inic patlahuac cemmatl: auh inic huiac cempoalli, inic tlacuilolli **texoacaxilqui**, but his large [breech clout] was only of paper; it was of white paper, one fathom wide and twenty long, painted with a blue striped design. (b.12 f.4 p.52) >From Spanish version of Book II: En esta fiesta todas las donzellas se afeitavan las caras y componian con pluma colorada los brac%os y las piernas y llevavan todas unos papeles puestos en unas can~as hendidas que llamavan teteuitl el papel era pintado con tinta Otras que llamavan teteuitl el papel era pintado con tinta Otras que eran hijas de sen~ores o de personas ricas no llevavan papel sino unas mantas delgadas que llamavan canaoac tambien las mantas ivan pintadas de negro a manera de virgulas de alto a baxo Llevando en las manos estas can~as con sus papeles o mantas altas andavan la procesion con la otra gente a honra de este dios y tambien bailavan estas donzellas con sus can~as y papeles assidos con ambas manos en derredor del fogon La parte por donde llevavan assidos estos cetros iva envuelta con un papel pintado de listas o rayas negras y cuando estos ivan danc%ando llegavan al suelo con el cetro como sustentandose en el segun los pasos que ivan dando Y los que hazian el son para bailar estavan dentro de una casa que llamavan calpulco de manera que no se vian los unos a los otros ni los que bailavan a los que tan~ian ni los que tan~ian a los que bailavan From brokaw at BUFFALO.EDU Fri Apr 8 14:49:42 2005 From: brokaw at BUFFALO.EDU (Galen Brokaw) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 10:49:42 -0400 Subject: acaxilqui Message-ID: Is it possible that the "xi" in this word is an archaic stem related either to "xip" as Fran suggests and/or to stems in words like "xeloa" and "xexelihui" that have meanings such as to split, scatter, spread, slice, and carve? This would make a lot of sense, especially given the fact that this compound appears with "amatl" and "tlacuilolli." If the -lqui ending means something "verbed", then there would appear to be two possibilities. One would be that the word is a kind of synonym for tlacuilolli, meaning "somethign reed-inscribed, carved, 'scattered,' etc." That is to say, something inscribed with a reed instrument. In this case, the "aca-" would be an instrumental imbed. The other possibility, is that it refers to the "paper" itself that is painted. So, the acatl would be a direct object imbed and the word would mean a kind of reed that has been flayed or spread out, thus creating the paper which is then painted. The fact that in the example #3 that Joe cites the word appears along side "amatl" may also suggest that it is a kind of synonym of paper, or a more specific kind of paper made from splitting and spreading out some kind of reed. An apparent problem (or at least one of the problems) with this interpretation is the "inic" that shows up between the two words in some of the examples. I think Dibble and Anderson's rationale was that the "inic" indicated that the tlacuilolli was done in the manner of an acaxilqui. And this does seem to be a possible translation. But I'm not sure it necessarily limits the interpretation of "acaxilqui" in this way. In two of the passages that Joe sent out, the inic appears before tlacuilolli rather than acaxilqui. So, it may be saying that the objects discussed were painted like tlacuilolli or in the manner of tlacuilolli rather than the other way round. (Or something like that.) It seems to me that the first time this term is used in Book 2, you could translate the sentence as follows: "And they fastened their sacrificial paper streamers firmly to canes, which were painted black and called acaxilqui." The change I am suggesting in Dibble and Anderson's translation here is from "in what was called a scroll design" to "and called acaxilqui." The word Dibble and Anderson translate as "their sacrificial paper streamers" appears to be "inteteuh," and it appears at the beginning of the sentence. But the morphology of the term "acaxilqui," which appears at the end, would seem to correspond more closely to the literal meaning of "paper streamers" or even better "read streamers." So, it may be that the "motocayotia acaxilqui" is clarifying the term "inteteuh" and referring to the streamers rather than to the tlacuilolli. I think you can make an argument about the way the term is used in the other sentences as well to support this interpretation. Of course, I could be completely wrong about this. So, anybody, feel free to poke holes in my theory. Galen r. joe campbell wrote: > I looked carefully through M'n'M'n'M (the three Molinas) and failed to > other related-looking words. I also checked Book II, FC, and Book XII... > and got what I quote below. Also three snippets from the Spanish version > of Book II; the Spanish version of Book XII does not give more than a > brief *summary* of the contents of Chapter 19. > > Joe > > acaxilqui > 1. tliltica tlacuilolli, motocayotia **acaxilqui**: > [the streamers] were painted in black in what was called a scroll > design. (b.2 f.3 p.74) > > 2. auh in motlacamati, canahuac inic quicuappachoa: zan no > **acaxilqui** inic tlacuilolli: > and the rich [women and girls] thus fastened thin cotton blankets > [to canes] likewise painted with a scroll design. (b.2 f.3 > p.74) > > 3. auh inic quitzitzquitihui, amatl **acaxilqui**, inic > tlacuilolli: > and where they went grasping [the staves] were papers painted with > scroll designs. (b.2 f.3 p.75) > > 4. ihuan iamamaxtli, **acaxilqui** inic tlacuilolli: > and they had their paper breechclouts painted with stripes. (b.2 > f.10 p.164) > > texoacaxilqui > 1. auh in ihuei (maxtli) zan amatl, yehuatl in cuahuamatl, inic > patlahuac cemmatl: auh inic huiac cempoalli, inic tlacuilolli > **texoacaxilqui**, > but his large [breech clout] was only of paper; it was of white > paper, one fathom wide and twenty long, painted with a blue > striped design. (b.12 f.4 p.52) > > > > From Spanish version of Book II: > > > En esta fiesta todas las donzellas se afeitavan las caras y > componian con pluma colorada los brac%os y las piernas y > llevavan todas unos papeles puestos en unas can~as hendidas que > llamavan teteuitl el papel era pintado con tinta Otras que > > > > > llamavan teteuitl el papel era pintado con tinta Otras que > eran hijas de sen~ores o de personas ricas no llevavan papel > sino unas mantas delgadas que llamavan canaoac tambien las > mantas ivan pintadas de negro a manera de virgulas de alto a > baxo Llevando en las manos estas can~as con sus papeles o > mantas altas andavan la procesion con la otra gente a honra de > este dios y tambien bailavan estas donzellas con sus can~as y > papeles assidos con ambas manos en derredor del fogon > > > > La parte por donde llevavan assidos estos > cetros iva envuelta con un papel pintado de listas o rayas > negras y cuando estos ivan danc%ando llegavan al suelo con el > cetro como sustentandose en el segun los pasos que ivan > dando Y los que hazian el son para bailar estavan dentro de > una casa que llamavan calpulco de manera que no se vian los > unos a los otros ni los que bailavan a los que tan~ian ni > los que tan~ian a los que bailavan > > From schwallr at morris.umn.edu Fri Apr 8 14:57:07 2005 From: schwallr at morris.umn.edu (John F. Schwaller) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 09:57:07 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Encuentro Nacional de Hablantes de Nahuatl Message-ID: >Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 12:12:14 -0600 >From: H-MEXICO >Reply-To: cipactonal at yahoo.com.mx >To: Grupo sobre historia de "México" >Subject: Encuentro Nacional de Hablantes de Nahuatl >Sender: owner-h-mexico at servidor.unam.mx > >Remite: Ignacio Silva cipactonal at yahoo.com.mx > >El dia 8 de abril de 2005 se va a llevar a cabo el XI Encuentro Nacional de >Hablantes de Nahuatl. > >Este evento se llevara a cabo en el pueblo de Santa Ana Tlacotenco, >delegacion Milpa Alta, Distrito Federal. > >El tema es: >"Literatura en lengua nahuatl" y sera presidido por el Dr. Miguel >Leon-Portilla. > >Este Encuentro dara inicio a las 11:00 hrs; habra mesas de trabajo y de >discusion, ademas de que tambien va a haber musica cantada en purepecha. > >Van a estar entre otras personalidades: > >Carlos Montemayor >Librado Silva Galeana >Natalio Hernandez >Enrique Garcia Escamilla >Patrick Johansson >Pilar Maynez vidal >Dra. Asencion Hernandez de Leon-Portilla >entre otros. > >Estan cordialmente invitados. From a.appleyard at BTINTERNET.COM Thu Apr 14 05:59:31 2005 From: a.appleyard at BTINTERNET.COM (ANTHONY APPLEYARD) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 06:59:31 +0100 Subject: Coalinga, LIpantitlan In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I have come across a guesstymology or urban myth that the name of the place Coalinga http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Coalinga in California came from "Coaling [station] A" where steam railway engines got coal. Is this correct? Or does the name refer to a different sort of thing that hisses, namely Nahuatl [coatl]? Lipantitlan http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/park/lipan/lipan.htm in Texas looks Nahuatl, but the initial L looks unnatural for Nahuatl. Is this [lipan] the name of a local native tribe? From idiez at MAC.COM Thu Apr 14 15:06:49 2005 From: idiez at MAC.COM (idiez at MAC.COM) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 10:06:49 -0500 Subject: Coalinga, LIpantitlan In-Reply-To: <20050414055931.82527.qmail@web86706.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Two words with initial "l¨from the Huasteca: "locotzoa", to shorten or shrink something "lalamiqui", to be intelligent (from tla-ilnamiqui) John Sullivan, Ph.D. Profesor de lengua y cultura nahua Unidad Académica de Idiomas Universidad Autónoma de Zacatecas Director Instituto de Docencia e Investigación Etnológica de Zacatecas, A.C. Tacuba 152, int. 47 Centro Histórico Zacatecas, Zac. 98000 México Oficina: +52 (492) 925-3415 Fax: +52 (492) 925-3416 Domicilio: +52 (492) 768-6048 Celular: +52 (492) 544-5985 idiez at mac.com www.idiez.org.mx On Apr 14, 2005, at 12:59 AM, ANTHONY APPLEYARD wrote: > I have come across a guesstymology or urban myth that the name of the > place Coalinga http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Coalinga in > California came from "Coaling [station] A" where steam railway engines > got coal. Is this correct? Or does the name refer to a different sort > of thing that hisses, namely Nahuatl [coatl]? > > Lipantitlan http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/park/lipan/lipan.htm in Texas > looks Nahuatl, but the initial L looks unnatural for Nahuatl. Is this > [lipan] the name of a local native tribe? > From dfrye at UMICH.EDU Thu Apr 14 15:15:28 2005 From: dfrye at UMICH.EDU (Frye, David) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 11:15:28 -0400 Subject: Coalinga, LIpantitlan Message-ID: Yes, the "Lipan Apache" (no doubt not their own name but one bestowed upon them). See, e.g., http://college.hmco.com/history/readerscomp/naind/html/na_019700_lipanap ache.htm I would say it is the "-titlan" that ending looks unnatural for Lipan, and for Texas, rather than the other way around. I would bet the name resulted from the same sort of semiliterate local boosterism that gave us Plano, Texas (the founders thought "Plano" was Spanish for "Plains"). On Apr 14, 2005, at 12:59 AM, ANTHONY APPLEYARD wrote: > Lipantitlan http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/park/lipan/lipan.htm in Texas > looks Nahuatl, but the initial L looks unnatural for Nahuatl. Is this > [lipan] the name of a local native tribe? > From jrader at MERRIAM-WEBSTER.COM Thu Apr 14 15:45:35 2005 From: jrader at MERRIAM-WEBSTER.COM (Jim Rader) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 10:45:35 -0500 Subject: Coalinga, LIpantitlan In-Reply-To: <20050414055931.82527.qmail@web86706.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > I have come across a guesstymology or urban myth that the name of the > place Coalinga http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Coalinga in > California came from "Coaling [station] A" where steam railway engines > got coal. Is this correct? Or does the name refer to a different sort > of thing that hisses, namely Nahuatl [coatl]? > There is a more circumspect and clearly more informed discussion of the name at http://www.coalinga.com/centennial.htm Jim Rader From idiez at MAC.COM Tue Apr 19 17:54:25 2005 From: idiez at MAC.COM (idiez at MAC.COM) Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 12:54:25 -0500 Subject: queniuhquitic / queniuhcatic Message-ID: Can anybody help on this one? I have two Huastecan nahuatl versions of the question, What color is it? "queniuhquitic", "queniuhcatic" The first two elements seem to be "quen" , "how", and "iuhqui" / "iuhca", "in this or that manner". The "-qui", "-ca", seem to be the traditional preterite ending which in this case seems to be working, also traditionally, as a ligature for the final "-tic". This "-tic" looks a lot like the verbalizing "-ti" and the nominalizing (or adjectivizing) "-c", which together form many nahuatl noun-adjectives, including many names for colors: xoxoctic (green), coztic (yellow), tzictic (blue), etc. However, this adjectivizing of the Huastecan expression "queniuhqui", "How....?", would be a type of construction I've never seen before. Any ideas? John John Sullivan, Ph.D. Profesor de lengua y cultura nahua Unidad Académica de Idiomas Universidad Autónoma de Zacatecas Director Instituto de Docencia e Investigación Etnológica de Zacatecas, A.C. Tacuba 152, int. 47 Centro Histórico Zacatecas, Zac. 98000 México Oficina: +52 (492) 925-3415 Fax: +52 (492) 925-3416 Domicilio: +52 (492) 768-6048 Celular: +52 (492) 544-5985 idiez at mac.com www.idiez.org.mx From brokaw at BUFFALO.EDU Tue Apr 19 20:01:36 2005 From: brokaw at BUFFALO.EDU (Galen Brokaw) Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 16:01:36 -0400 Subject: queniuhquitic / queniuhcatic Message-ID: John, This is an interesting question, precisely because it has implications for the way Nahuatl conceives of color. As you know, there are a lot of words that contain the component "iuhca" or "iuhqui, which, as you suggest, is a nominalized form of the verb ihui. This nominalized form would mean "the nature or manner of something." Both Molina and the Florentine have attestations of words like iuhcatiliztli, iuhcayotl, and iuhquiyotl, with meanings like condition, material form, the form or manner of s.t., and inherent quality. Interestingly, words like iuhcatiliztli, are nominalizations of verbalized nouns that are themselves nominalizations of a verb. But this is certainly not all that uncommon in Nahuatl. In any case, this would make a lot of sense with the verbalizing "ti" meaning "to become" and the preterite "c" making the construction mean "it became ..." So, "iuhcatic" would mean something like "it became thus" or "it became in a certain manner or of a certain nature or of a certain quality." Using this construction to refer to color ("it became of a certain color") would be consistent with the conceptualization of color as "having become like some prototypically colored noun." This conceptualization is evident in the morphology of color terms like "chichiltic" [red] literally meaning "it became like a red pepper" and the other ones you listed. In other words, there appears to be a very clear structural parallel between "iuhcatic / iuhquitic" and color terms such as chichiltic, where the prototypically colored noun would replace the nominalized verb "iuhca" or "iuhqui." So the "quen" would merely make it a question, meaning literally "How did it become?" or "What is the manner in which it became?" which would be translatable as "What color is it?" I think that makes sense anyway. Galen idiez at MAC.COM wrote: > Can anybody help on this one? > I have two Huastecan nahuatl versions of the question, What color > is it? > "queniuhquitic", "queniuhcatic" > The first two elements seem to be "quen" , "how", and "iuhqui" / > "iuhca", "in this or that manner". The "-qui", "-ca", seem to be the > traditional preterite ending which in this case seems to be working, > also traditionally, as a ligature for the final "-tic". This "-tic" > looks a lot like the verbalizing "-ti" and the nominalizing (or > adjectivizing) "-c", which together form many nahuatl noun-adjectives, > including many names for colors: xoxoctic (green), coztic (yellow), > tzictic (blue), etc. However, this adjectivizing of the Huastecan > expression "queniuhqui", "How....?", would be a type of construction > I've never seen before. Any ideas? > John > > John Sullivan, Ph.D. > Profesor de lengua y cultura nahua > Unidad Académica de Idiomas > Universidad Autónoma de Zacatecas > Director > Instituto de Docencia e Investigación Etnológica de Zacatecas, A.C. > Tacuba 152, int. 47 > Centro Histórico > Zacatecas, Zac. 98000 > México > Oficina: +52 (492) 925-3415 > Fax: +52 (492) 925-3416 > Domicilio: +52 (492) 768-6048 > Celular: +52 (492) 544-5985 > idiez at mac.com > www.idiez.org.mx > From mmccaffe at INDIANA.EDU Tue Apr 19 20:08:27 2005 From: mmccaffe at INDIANA.EDU (Michael McCafferty) Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 15:08:27 -0500 Subject: queniuhquitic / queniuhcatic In-Reply-To: <426563A0.4030102@buffalo.edu> Message-ID: Quemetzin, Galen. Cuacualli in motlahtol. Tlaxtlahui. Michael Quoting Galen Brokaw : > John, > This is an interesting question, precisely because it has implications > for the way Nahuatl conceives of color. > As you know, there are a lot of words that contain the component "iuhca" > or "iuhqui, which, as you suggest, is a nominalized form of the verb > ihui. This nominalized form would mean "the nature or manner of > something." Both Molina and the Florentine have attestations of words > like iuhcatiliztli, iuhcayotl, and iuhquiyotl, with meanings like > condition, material form, the form or manner of s.t., and inherent > quality. Interestingly, words like iuhcatiliztli, are nominalizations of > verbalized nouns that are themselves nominalizations of a verb. But this > is certainly not all that uncommon in Nahuatl. In any case, this would > make a lot of sense with the verbalizing "ti" meaning "to become" and > the preterite "c" making the construction mean "it became ..." So, > "iuhcatic" would mean something like "it became thus" or "it became in a > certain manner or of a certain nature or of a certain quality." Using > this construction to refer to color ("it became of a certain color") > would be consistent with the conceptualization of color as "having > become like some prototypically colored noun." This conceptualization is > evident in the morphology of color terms like "chichiltic" [red] > literally meaning "it became like a red pepper" and the other ones you > listed. In other words, there appears to be a very clear structural > parallel between "iuhcatic / iuhquitic" and color terms such as > chichiltic, where the prototypically colored noun would replace the > nominalized verb "iuhca" or "iuhqui." So the "quen" would merely make it > a question, meaning literally "How did it become?" or "What is the > manner in which it became?" which would be translatable as "What color > is it?" > I think that makes sense anyway. > Galen > > > > idiez at MAC.COM wrote: > > Can anybody help on this one? > > I have two Huastecan nahuatl versions of the question, What color > > is it? > > "queniuhquitic", "queniuhcatic" > > The first two elements seem to be "quen" , "how", and "iuhqui" / > > "iuhca", "in this or that manner". The "-qui", "-ca", seem to be the > > traditional preterite ending which in this case seems to be working, > > also traditionally, as a ligature for the final "-tic". This "-tic" > > looks a lot like the verbalizing "-ti" and the nominalizing (or > > adjectivizing) "-c", which together form many nahuatl noun-adjectives, > > including many names for colors: xoxoctic (green), coztic (yellow), > > tzictic (blue), etc. However, this adjectivizing of the Huastecan > > expression "queniuhqui", "How....?", would be a type of construction > > I've never seen before. Any ideas? > > John > > > > John Sullivan, Ph.D. > > Profesor de lengua y cultura nahua > > Unidad Académica de Idiomas > > Universidad Autónoma de Zacatecas > > Director > > Instituto de Docencia e Investigación Etnológica de Zacatecas, A.C. > > Tacuba 152, int. 47 > > Centro Histórico > > Zacatecas, Zac. 98000 > > México > > Oficina: +52 (492) 925-3415 > > Fax: +52 (492) 925-3416 > > Domicilio: +52 (492) 768-6048 > > Celular: +52 (492) 544-5985 > > idiez at mac.com > > www.idiez.org.mx > > > From budelberger.richard at 9ONLINE.FR Sat Apr 23 00:00:00 2005 From: budelberger.richard at 9ONLINE.FR (Budelberger, Richard) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 02:00:00 +0200 Subject: fe de erratas for Launey's book Message-ID: 4 floréal an CCXIII (le 23 avril 2005 d. c.-d. c. g.), 02h00. ---- Message d'origine ---- De : Michael Swanton À : Envoyé : samedi 5 mars 2005 17:28 Objet : Re: fe de erratas for Launey's book Dear Listeros, > --- Nadia Marin Guadarrama wrote: > >> Hello, >> >> I started to learn Nahuatl with Michel Launey's book >> Introducción a la Lengua y a la Literatura Náhuatl. >> The edition is in Spanish and is published by UNAM; >> however, it has errors. I know there is a Fe de erratas >> for that edition, but I don't have it. >> Could you help me to get that fe de erratas? >> >> >> Muchas gracias!! >> >> Nadia Marín-Guadarrama > > As far as I am aware the UNAM never prepared a fe de erratas > for that edition of Launey's 'Introduction'. > On the other hand, Una Canger of the University of Copenhagen > has prepared an extensive one. You may wish to contact her. > > If you read French you may also wish to consult the > original French version, which is still in print at > L'Harmattan in Paris. (I have heard though that the > latest printing mis-spelled his name on the cover as > "Launay"!) I understand that the Spanish edition > introduced errors not appearing in the French original. Cf. , , uel ; uel . > The French edition also has the advantage > of a second volume of analyzed texts. Cf. , , , , uel ; Cf. uel . Budelberger, Richard. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From schwallr at morris.umn.edu Mon Apr 25 13:28:42 2005 From: schwallr at morris.umn.edu (John F. Schwaller) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 08:28:42 -0500 Subject: fe de erratas for Launey's book In-Reply-To: <003c01c54807$618f9d60$b4853e3e@computer> Message-ID: At 07:00 PM 4/22/2005, you wrote: > >> I started to learn Nahuatl with Michel Launey's book > >> Introducción a la Lengua y a la Literatura Náhuatl. > >> The edition is in Spanish and is published by UNAM; > >> however, it has errors. I know there is a Fe de erratas > >> for that edition, but I don't have it. > >> Could you help me to get that fe de erratas? Una Canger has been kind enough to provide me with the Fe de Erratas. I can make it available to whomever might be interested. I can send it as an attachment. John F. Schwaller Vice Chancellor for Academic Affairs and Dean 315 Behmler Hall University of Minnesota, Morris 600 E 4th Street Morris, MN 56267 320-589-6015 FAX 320-589-6399 schwallr at morris.umn.edu From Irene.Padilla at FMC-NA.COM Mon Apr 25 14:29:38 2005 From: Irene.Padilla at FMC-NA.COM (Irene Padilla) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 07:29:38 -0700 Subject: fe de erratas for Launey's book In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.0.20050425082753.04131f90@schwallr.email.umn.edu> Message-ID: Please do..... ~Irene "John F. Schwaller" Sent by: Nahua language and culture discussion 04/25/05 06:28 AM Please respond to Nahua language and culture discussion To: NAHUAT-L at LISTS.UMN.EDU cc: Subject: Re: fe de erratas for Launey's book At 07:00 PM 4/22/2005, you wrote: > >> I started to learn Nahuatl with Michel Launey's book > >> Introducción a la Lengua y a la Literatura Náhuatl. > >> The edition is in Spanish and is published by UNAM; > >> however, it has errors. I know there is a Fe de erratas > >> for that edition, but I don't have it. > >> Could you help me to get that fe de erratas? Una Canger has been kind enough to provide me with the Fe de Erratas. I can make it available to whomever might be interested. I can send it as an attachment. John F. Schwaller Vice Chancellor for Academic Affairs and Dean 315 Behmler Hall University of Minnesota, Morris 600 E 4th Street Morris, MN 56267 320-589-6015 FAX 320-589-6399 schwallr at morris.umn.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kimi_nadiaxxi at YAHOO.COM Mon Apr 25 14:36:07 2005 From: kimi_nadiaxxi at YAHOO.COM (Nadia Marin Guadarrama) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 09:36:07 -0500 Subject: fe de erratas for Launey's book In-Reply-To: 6667 Message-ID: Please, can you send me it? I will be immensely happy to have the fe de erratas. Nadia "John F. Schwaller" wrote: At 07:00 PM 4/22/2005, you wrote: > >> I started to learn Nahuatl with Michel Launey's book > >> Introducción a la Lengua y a la Literatura Náhuatl. > >> The edition is in Spanish and is published by UNAM; > >> however, it has errors. I know there is a Fe de erratas > >> for that edition, but I don't have it. > >> Could you help me to get that fe de erratas? Una Canger has been kind enough to provide me with the Fe de Erratas. I can make it available to whomever might be interested. I can send it as an attachment. John F. Schwaller Vice Chancellor for Academic Affairs and Dean 315 Behmler Hall University of Minnesota, Morris 600 E 4th Street Morris, MN 56267 320-589-6015 FAX 320-589-6399 schwallr at morris.umn.edu --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Todo lo que quieres saber de Estados Unidos, América Latina y el resto del Mundo. Visíta Yahoo! Noticias. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From schwallr at morris.umn.edu Mon Apr 25 14:46:14 2005 From: schwallr at morris.umn.edu (John F. Schwaller) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 09:46:14 -0500 Subject: Respond off list Message-ID: Dear colleagues, If you request the fe de erratas, please do so tome personally not to the entire discussion list. Just check out the To: field after you hit Reply. Make certain it's to me and not the list in general. Thanks John F. Schwaller Vice Chancellor for Academic Affairs and Dean 315 Behmler Hall University of Minnesota, Morris 600 E 4th Street Morris, MN 56267 320-589-6015 FAX 320-589-6399 schwallr at morris.umn.edu From CHMuths at AOL.COM Mon Apr 25 15:51:10 2005 From: CHMuths at AOL.COM (CHMuths at AOL.COM) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 11:51:10 EDT Subject: fe de erratas for Launey's book Message-ID: In a message dated 25/04/2005 14:30:10 GMT Daylight Time, schwallr at morris.umn.edu writes: Una Canger has been kind enough to provide me with the Fe de Erratas. I can make it available to whomever might be interested. I can send it as an attachment. Can you please send Fe de Erratas as attachment? Thank you. Christa -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From susana at LOSRANCHEROS.ORG Wed Apr 27 08:16:31 2005 From: susana at LOSRANCHEROS.ORG (S. Moraleda) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 10:16:31 +0200 Subject: fe de erratas for Launey's book Message-ID: I would also be interested in getting the fe de erratas. Could you please send it as an attachment? Thanks. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John F. Schwaller" To: Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 3:28 PM Subject: Re: fe de erratas for Launey's book At 07:00 PM 4/22/2005, you wrote: > >> I started to learn Nahuatl with Michel Launey's book > >> Introducción a la Lengua y a la Literatura Náhuatl. > >> The edition is in Spanish and is published by UNAM; > >> however, it has errors. I know there is a Fe de erratas > >> for that edition, but I don't have it. > >> Could you help me to get that fe de erratas? Una Canger has been kind enough to provide me with the Fe de Erratas. I can make it available to whomever might be interested. I can send it as an attachment. John F. Schwaller Vice Chancellor for Academic Affairs and Dean 315 Behmler Hall University of Minnesota, Morris 600 E 4th Street Morris, MN 56267 320-589-6015 FAX 320-589-6399 schwallr at morris.umn.edu From Xhicana at AOL.COM Sat Apr 2 21:09:06 2005 From: Xhicana at AOL.COM (Xhicana at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 16:09:06 EST Subject: Nahuatl CD Message-ID: Dustin: I received the CD and tried to read it, but my Windows XP is telling me that the disc is either corrupted or is not compatible with my system. What system does this disc work with? Let me know. Thanks! MarlaJean Moreno -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ecoling at AOL.COM Sun Apr 3 20:08:44 2005 From: ecoling at AOL.COM (Lloyd Anderson) Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2005 16:08:44 -0400 Subject: Nahuatl CD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I think you may have sent this message to the wrong address. There is no person "Dustin" here. Best wishes, Lloyd Anderson Ecological Linguistics -----Original Message----- From: Xhicana at AOL.COM To: NAHUAT-L at LISTS.UMN.EDU Sent: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 16:09:06 EST Subject: Nahuatl CD Dustin: I received the CD and tried to read it, but my Windows XP is telling me that the disc is either corrupted or is not compatible with my system. What system does this disc work with? Let me know. Thanks! MarlaJean Moreno -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pthajovs at UCHICAGO.EDU Thu Apr 7 23:35:47 2005 From: pthajovs at UCHICAGO.EDU (pthajovs at UCHICAGO.EDU) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 06:35:47 +0700 Subject: acaxilqui Message-ID: This word, acaxilqui, appears several times in Book II of the Florentine Codex (see esp. p. 71). Dibble and Anderson translate it as "scroll design". I've tried looking this word up, and parsing it in several ways, but to no avail. Does anyone have some insight into its etymology and/or how Dibble and Anderson came up with this translation? From karttu at NANTUCKET.NET Fri Apr 8 01:24:33 2005 From: karttu at NANTUCKET.NET (Frances Karttunen) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 21:24:33 -0400 Subject: acaxilqui In-Reply-To: <28d3ca74.e9806e47.81b4a00@m4500-01.uchicago.edu> Message-ID: I would hazard a guess that it literally refers to reed shavings, i.e., when you shave or peel a thin strip off a reed, it curls up. Aca-tl 'reed and xi- (a variant of xip- 'to flay, peel') Can't say for sure, however. On Apr 7, 2005, at 7:35 PM, pthajovs at UCHICAGO.EDU wrote: > This word, acaxilqui, appears several times in Book II of the > Florentine Codex (see esp. p. 71). Dibble and Anderson > translate it as "scroll design". I've tried looking this word > up, and parsing it in several ways, but to no avail. Does > anyone have some insight into its etymology and/or how Dibble > and Anderson came up with this translation? > From campbel at INDIANA.EDU Fri Apr 8 05:12:23 2005 From: campbel at INDIANA.EDU (r. joe campbell) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 00:12:23 -0500 Subject: acaxilqui In-Reply-To: <07cda3d90a82fcdaec610f6dec221ec5@nantucket.net> Message-ID: I looked carefully through M'n'M'n'M (the three Molinas) and failed to other related-looking words. I also checked Book II, FC, and Book XII... and got what I quote below. Also three snippets from the Spanish version of Book II; the Spanish version of Book XII does not give more than a brief *summary* of the contents of Chapter 19. Joe acaxilqui 1. tliltica tlacuilolli, motocayotia **acaxilqui**: [the streamers] were painted in black in what was called a scroll design. (b.2 f.3 p.74) 2. auh in motlacamati, canahuac inic quicuappachoa: zan no **acaxilqui** inic tlacuilolli: and the rich [women and girls] thus fastened thin cotton blankets [to canes] likewise painted with a scroll design. (b.2 f.3 p.74) 3. auh inic quitzitzquitihui, amatl **acaxilqui**, inic tlacuilolli: and where they went grasping [the staves] were papers painted with scroll designs. (b.2 f.3 p.75) 4. ihuan iamamaxtli, **acaxilqui** inic tlacuilolli: and they had their paper breechclouts painted with stripes. (b.2 f.10 p.164) texoacaxilqui 1. auh in ihuei (maxtli) zan amatl, yehuatl in cuahuamatl, inic patlahuac cemmatl: auh inic huiac cempoalli, inic tlacuilolli **texoacaxilqui**, but his large [breech clout] was only of paper; it was of white paper, one fathom wide and twenty long, painted with a blue striped design. (b.12 f.4 p.52) >From Spanish version of Book II: En esta fiesta todas las donzellas se afeitavan las caras y componian con pluma colorada los brac%os y las piernas y llevavan todas unos papeles puestos en unas can~as hendidas que llamavan teteuitl el papel era pintado con tinta Otras que llamavan teteuitl el papel era pintado con tinta Otras que eran hijas de sen~ores o de personas ricas no llevavan papel sino unas mantas delgadas que llamavan canaoac tambien las mantas ivan pintadas de negro a manera de virgulas de alto a baxo Llevando en las manos estas can~as con sus papeles o mantas altas andavan la procesion con la otra gente a honra de este dios y tambien bailavan estas donzellas con sus can~as y papeles assidos con ambas manos en derredor del fogon La parte por donde llevavan assidos estos cetros iva envuelta con un papel pintado de listas o rayas negras y cuando estos ivan danc%ando llegavan al suelo con el cetro como sustentandose en el segun los pasos que ivan dando Y los que hazian el son para bailar estavan dentro de una casa que llamavan calpulco de manera que no se vian los unos a los otros ni los que bailavan a los que tan~ian ni los que tan~ian a los que bailavan From brokaw at BUFFALO.EDU Fri Apr 8 14:49:42 2005 From: brokaw at BUFFALO.EDU (Galen Brokaw) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 10:49:42 -0400 Subject: acaxilqui Message-ID: Is it possible that the "xi" in this word is an archaic stem related either to "xip" as Fran suggests and/or to stems in words like "xeloa" and "xexelihui" that have meanings such as to split, scatter, spread, slice, and carve? This would make a lot of sense, especially given the fact that this compound appears with "amatl" and "tlacuilolli." If the -lqui ending means something "verbed", then there would appear to be two possibilities. One would be that the word is a kind of synonym for tlacuilolli, meaning "somethign reed-inscribed, carved, 'scattered,' etc." That is to say, something inscribed with a reed instrument. In this case, the "aca-" would be an instrumental imbed. The other possibility, is that it refers to the "paper" itself that is painted. So, the acatl would be a direct object imbed and the word would mean a kind of reed that has been flayed or spread out, thus creating the paper which is then painted. The fact that in the example #3 that Joe cites the word appears along side "amatl" may also suggest that it is a kind of synonym of paper, or a more specific kind of paper made from splitting and spreading out some kind of reed. An apparent problem (or at least one of the problems) with this interpretation is the "inic" that shows up between the two words in some of the examples. I think Dibble and Anderson's rationale was that the "inic" indicated that the tlacuilolli was done in the manner of an acaxilqui. And this does seem to be a possible translation. But I'm not sure it necessarily limits the interpretation of "acaxilqui" in this way. In two of the passages that Joe sent out, the inic appears before tlacuilolli rather than acaxilqui. So, it may be saying that the objects discussed were painted like tlacuilolli or in the manner of tlacuilolli rather than the other way round. (Or something like that.) It seems to me that the first time this term is used in Book 2, you could translate the sentence as follows: "And they fastened their sacrificial paper streamers firmly to canes, which were painted black and called acaxilqui." The change I am suggesting in Dibble and Anderson's translation here is from "in what was called a scroll design" to "and called acaxilqui." The word Dibble and Anderson translate as "their sacrificial paper streamers" appears to be "inteteuh," and it appears at the beginning of the sentence. But the morphology of the term "acaxilqui," which appears at the end, would seem to correspond more closely to the literal meaning of "paper streamers" or even better "read streamers." So, it may be that the "motocayotia acaxilqui" is clarifying the term "inteteuh" and referring to the streamers rather than to the tlacuilolli. I think you can make an argument about the way the term is used in the other sentences as well to support this interpretation. Of course, I could be completely wrong about this. So, anybody, feel free to poke holes in my theory. Galen r. joe campbell wrote: > I looked carefully through M'n'M'n'M (the three Molinas) and failed to > other related-looking words. I also checked Book II, FC, and Book XII... > and got what I quote below. Also three snippets from the Spanish version > of Book II; the Spanish version of Book XII does not give more than a > brief *summary* of the contents of Chapter 19. > > Joe > > acaxilqui > 1. tliltica tlacuilolli, motocayotia **acaxilqui**: > [the streamers] were painted in black in what was called a scroll > design. (b.2 f.3 p.74) > > 2. auh in motlacamati, canahuac inic quicuappachoa: zan no > **acaxilqui** inic tlacuilolli: > and the rich [women and girls] thus fastened thin cotton blankets > [to canes] likewise painted with a scroll design. (b.2 f.3 > p.74) > > 3. auh inic quitzitzquitihui, amatl **acaxilqui**, inic > tlacuilolli: > and where they went grasping [the staves] were papers painted with > scroll designs. (b.2 f.3 p.75) > > 4. ihuan iamamaxtli, **acaxilqui** inic tlacuilolli: > and they had their paper breechclouts painted with stripes. (b.2 > f.10 p.164) > > texoacaxilqui > 1. auh in ihuei (maxtli) zan amatl, yehuatl in cuahuamatl, inic > patlahuac cemmatl: auh inic huiac cempoalli, inic tlacuilolli > **texoacaxilqui**, > but his large [breech clout] was only of paper; it was of white > paper, one fathom wide and twenty long, painted with a blue > striped design. (b.12 f.4 p.52) > > > > From Spanish version of Book II: > > > En esta fiesta todas las donzellas se afeitavan las caras y > componian con pluma colorada los brac%os y las piernas y > llevavan todas unos papeles puestos en unas can~as hendidas que > llamavan teteuitl el papel era pintado con tinta Otras que > > > > > llamavan teteuitl el papel era pintado con tinta Otras que > eran hijas de sen~ores o de personas ricas no llevavan papel > sino unas mantas delgadas que llamavan canaoac tambien las > mantas ivan pintadas de negro a manera de virgulas de alto a > baxo Llevando en las manos estas can~as con sus papeles o > mantas altas andavan la procesion con la otra gente a honra de > este dios y tambien bailavan estas donzellas con sus can~as y > papeles assidos con ambas manos en derredor del fogon > > > > La parte por donde llevavan assidos estos > cetros iva envuelta con un papel pintado de listas o rayas > negras y cuando estos ivan danc%ando llegavan al suelo con el > cetro como sustentandose en el segun los pasos que ivan > dando Y los que hazian el son para bailar estavan dentro de > una casa que llamavan calpulco de manera que no se vian los > unos a los otros ni los que bailavan a los que tan~ian ni > los que tan~ian a los que bailavan > > From schwallr at morris.umn.edu Fri Apr 8 14:57:07 2005 From: schwallr at morris.umn.edu (John F. Schwaller) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 09:57:07 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Encuentro Nacional de Hablantes de Nahuatl Message-ID: >Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 12:12:14 -0600 >From: H-MEXICO >Reply-To: cipactonal at yahoo.com.mx >To: Grupo sobre historia de "M?xico" >Subject: Encuentro Nacional de Hablantes de Nahuatl >Sender: owner-h-mexico at servidor.unam.mx > >Remite: Ignacio Silva cipactonal at yahoo.com.mx > >El dia 8 de abril de 2005 se va a llevar a cabo el XI Encuentro Nacional de >Hablantes de Nahuatl. > >Este evento se llevara a cabo en el pueblo de Santa Ana Tlacotenco, >delegacion Milpa Alta, Distrito Federal. > >El tema es: >"Literatura en lengua nahuatl" y sera presidido por el Dr. Miguel >Leon-Portilla. > >Este Encuentro dara inicio a las 11:00 hrs; habra mesas de trabajo y de >discusion, ademas de que tambien va a haber musica cantada en purepecha. > >Van a estar entre otras personalidades: > >Carlos Montemayor >Librado Silva Galeana >Natalio Hernandez >Enrique Garcia Escamilla >Patrick Johansson >Pilar Maynez vidal >Dra. Asencion Hernandez de Leon-Portilla >entre otros. > >Estan cordialmente invitados. From a.appleyard at BTINTERNET.COM Thu Apr 14 05:59:31 2005 From: a.appleyard at BTINTERNET.COM (ANTHONY APPLEYARD) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 06:59:31 +0100 Subject: Coalinga, LIpantitlan In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I have come across a guesstymology or urban myth that the name of the place Coalinga http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Coalinga in California came from "Coaling [station] A" where steam railway engines got coal. Is this correct? Or does the name refer to a different sort of thing that hisses, namely Nahuatl [coatl]? Lipantitlan http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/park/lipan/lipan.htm in Texas looks Nahuatl, but the initial L looks unnatural for Nahuatl. Is this [lipan] the name of a local native tribe? From idiez at MAC.COM Thu Apr 14 15:06:49 2005 From: idiez at MAC.COM (idiez at MAC.COM) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 10:06:49 -0500 Subject: Coalinga, LIpantitlan In-Reply-To: <20050414055931.82527.qmail@web86706.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Two words with initial "l?from the Huasteca: "locotzoa", to shorten or shrink something "lalamiqui", to be intelligent (from tla-ilnamiqui) John Sullivan, Ph.D. Profesor de lengua y cultura nahua Unidad Acad?mica de Idiomas Universidad Aut?noma de Zacatecas Director Instituto de Docencia e Investigaci?n Etnol?gica de Zacatecas, A.C. Tacuba 152, int. 47 Centro Hist?rico Zacatecas, Zac. 98000 M?xico Oficina: +52 (492) 925-3415 Fax: +52 (492) 925-3416 Domicilio: +52 (492) 768-6048 Celular: +52 (492) 544-5985 idiez at mac.com www.idiez.org.mx On Apr 14, 2005, at 12:59 AM, ANTHONY APPLEYARD wrote: > I have come across a guesstymology or urban myth that the name of the > place Coalinga http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Coalinga in > California came from "Coaling [station] A" where steam railway engines > got coal. Is this correct? Or does the name refer to a different sort > of thing that hisses, namely Nahuatl [coatl]? > > Lipantitlan http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/park/lipan/lipan.htm in Texas > looks Nahuatl, but the initial L looks unnatural for Nahuatl. Is this > [lipan] the name of a local native tribe? > From dfrye at UMICH.EDU Thu Apr 14 15:15:28 2005 From: dfrye at UMICH.EDU (Frye, David) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 11:15:28 -0400 Subject: Coalinga, LIpantitlan Message-ID: Yes, the "Lipan Apache" (no doubt not their own name but one bestowed upon them). See, e.g., http://college.hmco.com/history/readerscomp/naind/html/na_019700_lipanap ache.htm I would say it is the "-titlan" that ending looks unnatural for Lipan, and for Texas, rather than the other way around. I would bet the name resulted from the same sort of semiliterate local boosterism that gave us Plano, Texas (the founders thought "Plano" was Spanish for "Plains"). On Apr 14, 2005, at 12:59 AM, ANTHONY APPLEYARD wrote: > Lipantitlan http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/park/lipan/lipan.htm in Texas > looks Nahuatl, but the initial L looks unnatural for Nahuatl. Is this > [lipan] the name of a local native tribe? > From jrader at MERRIAM-WEBSTER.COM Thu Apr 14 15:45:35 2005 From: jrader at MERRIAM-WEBSTER.COM (Jim Rader) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 10:45:35 -0500 Subject: Coalinga, LIpantitlan In-Reply-To: <20050414055931.82527.qmail@web86706.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > I have come across a guesstymology or urban myth that the name of the > place Coalinga http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Coalinga in > California came from "Coaling [station] A" where steam railway engines > got coal. Is this correct? Or does the name refer to a different sort > of thing that hisses, namely Nahuatl [coatl]? > There is a more circumspect and clearly more informed discussion of the name at http://www.coalinga.com/centennial.htm Jim Rader From idiez at MAC.COM Tue Apr 19 17:54:25 2005 From: idiez at MAC.COM (idiez at MAC.COM) Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 12:54:25 -0500 Subject: queniuhquitic / queniuhcatic Message-ID: Can anybody help on this one? I have two Huastecan nahuatl versions of the question, What color is it? "queniuhquitic", "queniuhcatic" The first two elements seem to be "quen" , "how", and "iuhqui" / "iuhca", "in this or that manner". The "-qui", "-ca", seem to be the traditional preterite ending which in this case seems to be working, also traditionally, as a ligature for the final "-tic". This "-tic" looks a lot like the verbalizing "-ti" and the nominalizing (or adjectivizing) "-c", which together form many nahuatl noun-adjectives, including many names for colors: xoxoctic (green), coztic (yellow), tzictic (blue), etc. However, this adjectivizing of the Huastecan expression "queniuhqui", "How....?", would be a type of construction I've never seen before. Any ideas? John John Sullivan, Ph.D. Profesor de lengua y cultura nahua Unidad Acad?mica de Idiomas Universidad Aut?noma de Zacatecas Director Instituto de Docencia e Investigaci?n Etnol?gica de Zacatecas, A.C. Tacuba 152, int. 47 Centro Hist?rico Zacatecas, Zac. 98000 M?xico Oficina: +52 (492) 925-3415 Fax: +52 (492) 925-3416 Domicilio: +52 (492) 768-6048 Celular: +52 (492) 544-5985 idiez at mac.com www.idiez.org.mx From brokaw at BUFFALO.EDU Tue Apr 19 20:01:36 2005 From: brokaw at BUFFALO.EDU (Galen Brokaw) Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 16:01:36 -0400 Subject: queniuhquitic / queniuhcatic Message-ID: John, This is an interesting question, precisely because it has implications for the way Nahuatl conceives of color. As you know, there are a lot of words that contain the component "iuhca" or "iuhqui, which, as you suggest, is a nominalized form of the verb ihui. This nominalized form would mean "the nature or manner of something." Both Molina and the Florentine have attestations of words like iuhcatiliztli, iuhcayotl, and iuhquiyotl, with meanings like condition, material form, the form or manner of s.t., and inherent quality. Interestingly, words like iuhcatiliztli, are nominalizations of verbalized nouns that are themselves nominalizations of a verb. But this is certainly not all that uncommon in Nahuatl. In any case, this would make a lot of sense with the verbalizing "ti" meaning "to become" and the preterite "c" making the construction mean "it became ..." So, "iuhcatic" would mean something like "it became thus" or "it became in a certain manner or of a certain nature or of a certain quality." Using this construction to refer to color ("it became of a certain color") would be consistent with the conceptualization of color as "having become like some prototypically colored noun." This conceptualization is evident in the morphology of color terms like "chichiltic" [red] literally meaning "it became like a red pepper" and the other ones you listed. In other words, there appears to be a very clear structural parallel between "iuhcatic / iuhquitic" and color terms such as chichiltic, where the prototypically colored noun would replace the nominalized verb "iuhca" or "iuhqui." So the "quen" would merely make it a question, meaning literally "How did it become?" or "What is the manner in which it became?" which would be translatable as "What color is it?" I think that makes sense anyway. Galen idiez at MAC.COM wrote: > Can anybody help on this one? > I have two Huastecan nahuatl versions of the question, What color > is it? > "queniuhquitic", "queniuhcatic" > The first two elements seem to be "quen" , "how", and "iuhqui" / > "iuhca", "in this or that manner". The "-qui", "-ca", seem to be the > traditional preterite ending which in this case seems to be working, > also traditionally, as a ligature for the final "-tic". This "-tic" > looks a lot like the verbalizing "-ti" and the nominalizing (or > adjectivizing) "-c", which together form many nahuatl noun-adjectives, > including many names for colors: xoxoctic (green), coztic (yellow), > tzictic (blue), etc. However, this adjectivizing of the Huastecan > expression "queniuhqui", "How....?", would be a type of construction > I've never seen before. Any ideas? > John > > John Sullivan, Ph.D. > Profesor de lengua y cultura nahua > Unidad Acad?mica de Idiomas > Universidad Aut?noma de Zacatecas > Director > Instituto de Docencia e Investigaci?n Etnol?gica de Zacatecas, A.C. > Tacuba 152, int. 47 > Centro Hist?rico > Zacatecas, Zac. 98000 > M?xico > Oficina: +52 (492) 925-3415 > Fax: +52 (492) 925-3416 > Domicilio: +52 (492) 768-6048 > Celular: +52 (492) 544-5985 > idiez at mac.com > www.idiez.org.mx > From mmccaffe at INDIANA.EDU Tue Apr 19 20:08:27 2005 From: mmccaffe at INDIANA.EDU (Michael McCafferty) Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 15:08:27 -0500 Subject: queniuhquitic / queniuhcatic In-Reply-To: <426563A0.4030102@buffalo.edu> Message-ID: Quemetzin, Galen. Cuacualli in motlahtol. Tlaxtlahui. Michael Quoting Galen Brokaw : > John, > This is an interesting question, precisely because it has implications > for the way Nahuatl conceives of color. > As you know, there are a lot of words that contain the component "iuhca" > or "iuhqui, which, as you suggest, is a nominalized form of the verb > ihui. This nominalized form would mean "the nature or manner of > something." Both Molina and the Florentine have attestations of words > like iuhcatiliztli, iuhcayotl, and iuhquiyotl, with meanings like > condition, material form, the form or manner of s.t., and inherent > quality. Interestingly, words like iuhcatiliztli, are nominalizations of > verbalized nouns that are themselves nominalizations of a verb. But this > is certainly not all that uncommon in Nahuatl. In any case, this would > make a lot of sense with the verbalizing "ti" meaning "to become" and > the preterite "c" making the construction mean "it became ..." So, > "iuhcatic" would mean something like "it became thus" or "it became in a > certain manner or of a certain nature or of a certain quality." Using > this construction to refer to color ("it became of a certain color") > would be consistent with the conceptualization of color as "having > become like some prototypically colored noun." This conceptualization is > evident in the morphology of color terms like "chichiltic" [red] > literally meaning "it became like a red pepper" and the other ones you > listed. In other words, there appears to be a very clear structural > parallel between "iuhcatic / iuhquitic" and color terms such as > chichiltic, where the prototypically colored noun would replace the > nominalized verb "iuhca" or "iuhqui." So the "quen" would merely make it > a question, meaning literally "How did it become?" or "What is the > manner in which it became?" which would be translatable as "What color > is it?" > I think that makes sense anyway. > Galen > > > > idiez at MAC.COM wrote: > > Can anybody help on this one? > > I have two Huastecan nahuatl versions of the question, What color > > is it? > > "queniuhquitic", "queniuhcatic" > > The first two elements seem to be "quen" , "how", and "iuhqui" / > > "iuhca", "in this or that manner". The "-qui", "-ca", seem to be the > > traditional preterite ending which in this case seems to be working, > > also traditionally, as a ligature for the final "-tic". This "-tic" > > looks a lot like the verbalizing "-ti" and the nominalizing (or > > adjectivizing) "-c", which together form many nahuatl noun-adjectives, > > including many names for colors: xoxoctic (green), coztic (yellow), > > tzictic (blue), etc. However, this adjectivizing of the Huastecan > > expression "queniuhqui", "How....?", would be a type of construction > > I've never seen before. Any ideas? > > John > > > > John Sullivan, Ph.D. > > Profesor de lengua y cultura nahua > > Unidad Acad?mica de Idiomas > > Universidad Aut?noma de Zacatecas > > Director > > Instituto de Docencia e Investigaci?n Etnol?gica de Zacatecas, A.C. > > Tacuba 152, int. 47 > > Centro Hist?rico > > Zacatecas, Zac. 98000 > > M?xico > > Oficina: +52 (492) 925-3415 > > Fax: +52 (492) 925-3416 > > Domicilio: +52 (492) 768-6048 > > Celular: +52 (492) 544-5985 > > idiez at mac.com > > www.idiez.org.mx > > > From budelberger.richard at 9ONLINE.FR Sat Apr 23 00:00:00 2005 From: budelberger.richard at 9ONLINE.FR (Budelberger, Richard) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 02:00:00 +0200 Subject: fe de erratas for Launey's book Message-ID: 4 flor?al an CCXIII (le 23 avril 2005 d. c.-d. c. g.), 02h00. ---- Message d'origine ---- De : Michael Swanton ? : Envoy? : samedi 5 mars 2005 17:28 Objet : Re: fe de erratas for Launey's book Dear Listeros, > --- Nadia Marin Guadarrama wrote: > >> Hello, >> >> I started to learn Nahuatl with Michel Launey's book >> Introducci?n a la Lengua y a la Literatura N?huatl. >> The edition is in Spanish and is published by UNAM; >> however, it has errors. I know there is a Fe de erratas >> for that edition, but I don't have it. >> Could you help me to get that fe de erratas? >> >> >> Muchas gracias!! >> >> Nadia Mar?n-Guadarrama > > As far as I am aware the UNAM never prepared a fe de erratas > for that edition of Launey's 'Introduction'. > On the other hand, Una Canger of the University of Copenhagen > has prepared an extensive one. You may wish to contact her. > > If you read French you may also wish to consult the > original French version, which is still in print at > L'Harmattan in Paris. (I have heard though that the > latest printing mis-spelled his name on the cover as > "Launay"!) I understand that the Spanish edition > introduced errors not appearing in the French original. Cf. , , uel ; uel . > The French edition also has the advantage > of a second volume of analyzed texts. Cf. , , , , uel ; Cf. uel . Budelberger, Richard. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From schwallr at morris.umn.edu Mon Apr 25 13:28:42 2005 From: schwallr at morris.umn.edu (John F. Schwaller) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 08:28:42 -0500 Subject: fe de erratas for Launey's book In-Reply-To: <003c01c54807$618f9d60$b4853e3e@computer> Message-ID: At 07:00 PM 4/22/2005, you wrote: > >> I started to learn Nahuatl with Michel Launey's book > >> Introducci?n a la Lengua y a la Literatura N?huatl. > >> The edition is in Spanish and is published by UNAM; > >> however, it has errors. I know there is a Fe de erratas > >> for that edition, but I don't have it. > >> Could you help me to get that fe de erratas? Una Canger has been kind enough to provide me with the Fe de Erratas. I can make it available to whomever might be interested. I can send it as an attachment. John F. Schwaller Vice Chancellor for Academic Affairs and Dean 315 Behmler Hall University of Minnesota, Morris 600 E 4th Street Morris, MN 56267 320-589-6015 FAX 320-589-6399 schwallr at morris.umn.edu From Irene.Padilla at FMC-NA.COM Mon Apr 25 14:29:38 2005 From: Irene.Padilla at FMC-NA.COM (Irene Padilla) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 07:29:38 -0700 Subject: fe de erratas for Launey's book In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.0.20050425082753.04131f90@schwallr.email.umn.edu> Message-ID: Please do..... ~Irene "John F. Schwaller" Sent by: Nahua language and culture discussion 04/25/05 06:28 AM Please respond to Nahua language and culture discussion To: NAHUAT-L at LISTS.UMN.EDU cc: Subject: Re: fe de erratas for Launey's book At 07:00 PM 4/22/2005, you wrote: > >> I started to learn Nahuatl with Michel Launey's book > >> Introducci?n a la Lengua y a la Literatura N?huatl. > >> The edition is in Spanish and is published by UNAM; > >> however, it has errors. I know there is a Fe de erratas > >> for that edition, but I don't have it. > >> Could you help me to get that fe de erratas? Una Canger has been kind enough to provide me with the Fe de Erratas. I can make it available to whomever might be interested. I can send it as an attachment. John F. Schwaller Vice Chancellor for Academic Affairs and Dean 315 Behmler Hall University of Minnesota, Morris 600 E 4th Street Morris, MN 56267 320-589-6015 FAX 320-589-6399 schwallr at morris.umn.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kimi_nadiaxxi at YAHOO.COM Mon Apr 25 14:36:07 2005 From: kimi_nadiaxxi at YAHOO.COM (Nadia Marin Guadarrama) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 09:36:07 -0500 Subject: fe de erratas for Launey's book In-Reply-To: 6667 Message-ID: Please, can you send me it? I will be immensely happy to have the fe de erratas. Nadia "John F. Schwaller" wrote: At 07:00 PM 4/22/2005, you wrote: > >> I started to learn Nahuatl with Michel Launey's book > >> Introducci?n a la Lengua y a la Literatura N?huatl. > >> The edition is in Spanish and is published by UNAM; > >> however, it has errors. I know there is a Fe de erratas > >> for that edition, but I don't have it. > >> Could you help me to get that fe de erratas? Una Canger has been kind enough to provide me with the Fe de Erratas. I can make it available to whomever might be interested. I can send it as an attachment. John F. Schwaller Vice Chancellor for Academic Affairs and Dean 315 Behmler Hall University of Minnesota, Morris 600 E 4th Street Morris, MN 56267 320-589-6015 FAX 320-589-6399 schwallr at morris.umn.edu --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Todo lo que quieres saber de Estados Unidos, Am?rica Latina y el resto del Mundo. Vis?ta Yahoo! Noticias. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From schwallr at morris.umn.edu Mon Apr 25 14:46:14 2005 From: schwallr at morris.umn.edu (John F. Schwaller) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 09:46:14 -0500 Subject: Respond off list Message-ID: Dear colleagues, If you request the fe de erratas, please do so tome personally not to the entire discussion list. Just check out the To: field after you hit Reply. Make certain it's to me and not the list in general. Thanks John F. Schwaller Vice Chancellor for Academic Affairs and Dean 315 Behmler Hall University of Minnesota, Morris 600 E 4th Street Morris, MN 56267 320-589-6015 FAX 320-589-6399 schwallr at morris.umn.edu From CHMuths at AOL.COM Mon Apr 25 15:51:10 2005 From: CHMuths at AOL.COM (CHMuths at AOL.COM) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 11:51:10 EDT Subject: fe de erratas for Launey's book Message-ID: In a message dated 25/04/2005 14:30:10 GMT Daylight Time, schwallr at morris.umn.edu writes: Una Canger has been kind enough to provide me with the Fe de Erratas. I can make it available to whomever might be interested. I can send it as an attachment. Can you please send Fe de Erratas as attachment? Thank you. Christa -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From susana at LOSRANCHEROS.ORG Wed Apr 27 08:16:31 2005 From: susana at LOSRANCHEROS.ORG (S. Moraleda) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 10:16:31 +0200 Subject: fe de erratas for Launey's book Message-ID: I would also be interested in getting the fe de erratas. Could you please send it as an attachment? Thanks. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John F. Schwaller" To: Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 3:28 PM Subject: Re: fe de erratas for Launey's book At 07:00 PM 4/22/2005, you wrote: > >> I started to learn Nahuatl with Michel Launey's book > >> Introducci?n a la Lengua y a la Literatura N?huatl. > >> The edition is in Spanish and is published by UNAM; > >> however, it has errors. I know there is a Fe de erratas > >> for that edition, but I don't have it. > >> Could you help me to get that fe de erratas? Una Canger has been kind enough to provide me with the Fe de Erratas. I can make it available to whomever might be interested. I can send it as an attachment. John F. Schwaller Vice Chancellor for Academic Affairs and Dean 315 Behmler Hall University of Minnesota, Morris 600 E 4th Street Morris, MN 56267 320-589-6015 FAX 320-589-6399 schwallr at morris.umn.edu