From ced44 at CAM.AC.UK Mon Aug 1 12:33:12 2005 From: ced44 at CAM.AC.UK (Caroline Dodds) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2005 13:33:12 +0100 Subject: new Molina printing Message-ID: Dear Walter, I bought a copy of the fourth (2001) edition of the Molina (which was also very clear, I have to say) about two years ago from the Porrua website. Their website is certainly rather recalcitrant, but after a few tries through different kinds of search today, the Molina eventually turned up. You can find both the 2001 and the 2004 edition at the following two addresses: http://201.134.180.83/Libro/Libro.aspx?CB=9789700747446 http://201.134.180.83/Libro/Libro.aspx?CB=9789700727394 Hope that's helpful. Yours, Caroline ----- Dr. Caroline Dodds Junior Research Fellow Sidney Sussex College CB2 3HU ced44 at cam.ac.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From igr at STANFORD.EDU Mon Aug 1 13:06:14 2005 From: igr at STANFORD.EDU (Ian Robertson) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2005 08:06:14 -0500 Subject: new Molina printing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hello Walter, Caroline Dodds has kindly supplied relevant links for the Porrua website. As for the facsimile version of Molina--I don't have the reference, but I do hope to be in Mexico City again in a couple of weeks or so. If no one has posted the reference/publishing info before that time, I will see if I can get it for you. Best, Ian Walter Koenig wrote: > Ian, > > Do you have anymore information on the Molina re-printing? How many > were printed? I have tried repeatedly to get into Editoral Porrua's > web-site even before your announcement, but all I get is > their Cargando.... message. > > Also do you have any more information about the facsimile of the > Vocabulario? I am very interested in that as well. > > Many thanks. > > Best Wishes, > > Walter O. Koenig > > > On Jul 24, 2005, at 5:53 AM, Ian Robertson wrote: > >> If I remember correctly, the last time I heard some discussion of >> Molina's Vocabulario on Nahuat-l, it was described as out-of-print. >> Yesterday I was pleased to find recently printed (2004) copies of >> this dictionary for sale in the Madero bookstore in Mexico City. This >> 5th edition has a new, bright cover, and the numerous blurry pages >> that plague my old copy don't seem to have been reproduced. I >> couldn't get on Porrua's website this morning, but I assume that >> copies can be ordered there. >> >> I was also shown a wonderful facsimile of the Vocabulario, part of a >> very small run recently printed in Spain. The price (1800 pesos) >> seemed pretty cheap given the quality and beauty of the work. I was >> able to escape without buying it, but it was a close call... >> >> Best, >> >> Ian Robertson >> >> -- >> Ian G. Robertson >> Assistant Professor >> Department of Anthropological Sciences >> Building 360, 450 Serra Mall >> Stanford University >> Stanford, CA 94305-2117 >> >> p: 650-724-4994 [2579988] > >> f: 650-725-9996 >> e: igr at stanford.edu >> > From schwallr at morris.umn.edu Mon Aug 1 13:36:56 2005 From: schwallr at morris.umn.edu (John F. Schwaller) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2005 08:36:56 -0500 Subject: new Molina printing In-Reply-To: <42EE1E46.7010202@stanford.edu> Message-ID: At 08:06 AM 8/1/2005, you wrote: >Caroline Dodds has kindly supplied relevant links for the Porrua >website. As for the facsimile version of Molina--I don't have the >reference, but I do hope to be in Mexico City again in a couple of >weeks or so. If no one has posted the reference/publishing info >before that time, I will see if I can get it for you. To be perfectly honest, the Porrua edition has traditionally been a facsimile edition. I have never seen a version of Molina in a modern typeface, other than the one Joe Campbell printed off the computer from his database. John F. Schwaller Vice Chancellor for Academic Affairs and Dean 315 Behmler Hall University of Minnesota, Morris 600 E 4th Street Morris, MN 56267 320-589-6015 FAX 320-589-6399 schwallr at morris.umn.edu From takaio at PO.AIANET.NE.JP Mon Aug 1 15:09:16 2005 From: takaio at PO.AIANET.NE.JP (Yukitaka Inoue Okubo) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2005 00:09:16 +0900 Subject: new Molina printing Message-ID: Hello, Some information about the facsimil edition which was printed in Spain: Fray Alonso de Molina, Vocabulario en lengua castellana y mexicana, Estudio de Esther Hernandez, Ediciones de Cultura Hispanica, Agencia Espanyola de Cooperacion Internacional, Madrid, 2001. ISBN (Obra completa) 84-7232-869-4; (Facsimil) 84-7232-870-8; (Estudio) 84-7232-871-6 It is the facsimil edition of 1571 (as well as that of Porrua), and was taken from the copy that is in the Biblioteca Nacional de Espanya. The last page of the facsimil says: "Edicion facsimilar de 1.000 ejemplares numerados". This may be the edition that was in Madero bookstore, although it costed me less when I bought it few years ago in a Spanish bookstore (but I don't remember exactly the price). Yukitaka ----------------------------------- Mtro. Yukitaka INOUE OKUBO Universidad de Ritsumeikan (Kioto, Japon) ----------------------------------- > Hello Walter, > > Caroline Dodds has kindly supplied relevant links for the Porrua website. > As for the facsimile version of Molina--I don't have the reference, but I > do hope to be in Mexico City again in a couple of weeks or so. If no one > has posted the reference/publishing info before that time, I will see if I > can get it for you. > > Best, Ian > > Walter Koenig wrote: > >> Ian, >> >> Do you have anymore information on the Molina re-printing? How many were >> printed? I have tried repeatedly to get into Editoral Porrua's web-site >> even before your announcement, but all I get is their Cargando.... >> message. >> Also do you have any more information about the facsimile of the >> Vocabulario? I am very interested in that as well. >> >> Many thanks. >> >> Best Wishes, >> >> Walter O. Koenig >> >> >> On Jul 24, 2005, at 5:53 AM, Ian Robertson wrote: >> >>> If I remember correctly, the last time I heard some discussion of >>> Molina's Vocabulario on Nahuat-l, it was described as out-of-print. >>> Yesterday I was pleased to find recently printed (2004) copies of this >>> dictionary for sale in the Madero bookstore in Mexico City. This 5th >>> edition has a new, bright cover, and the numerous blurry pages that >>> plague my old copy don't seem to have been reproduced. I couldn't get on >>> Porrua's website this morning, but I assume that copies can be ordered >>> there. >>> >>> I was also shown a wonderful facsimile of the Vocabulario, part of a >>> very small run recently printed in Spain. The price (1800 pesos) seemed >>> pretty cheap given the quality and beauty of the work. I was able to >>> escape without buying it, but it was a close call... >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Ian Robertson >>> >>> -- >>> Ian G. Robertson >>> Assistant Professor >>> Department of Anthropological Sciences >>> Building 360, 450 Serra Mall >>> Stanford University >>> Stanford, CA 94305-2117 >>> >>> p: 650-724-4994 [2579988] >> >>> f: 650-725-9996 >>> e: igr at stanford.edu >>> >> > > From ced44 at CAM.AC.UK Mon Aug 1 15:20:24 2005 From: ced44 at CAM.AC.UK (Caroline Dodds) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2005 16:20:24 +0100 Subject: Obras Cl=?iso-8859-1?Q?=E1sicas_sobre_la_Lengua_N=E1huatl?= Message-ID: Prompted by the recent discussions about the Molina reprint, I have remembered that someone on the list a while ago mentioned a very useful CD published by Digibis of facsimile Nahuatl documents called 'Obras Clásicas sobre la Lengua Náhuatl. At the time that it was mentioned, I think that someone said it was no longer available, and I wanted to let list members know that it is still available to purchase. It is available direct from Digibis, but I obtained a copy via Libreria Ledi (who, unlike Digibis, will accept payment details via email). It is on their website at http://www.internationalbookseller.com/Inglese/digibis%202.htm as part of the Colección Clásicos Tavera series. Although it is not cheap (180 euros), it has a large number of texts, including work by Aldama y Guevara, Ixtlilxochitl, Bautista, Carochi, Icazbalceta, Molina, Olmos and Sahagun amongst others, and so I thought that list members might like to know that it is still available. A full list of the contents is online here: http://www.mapfre.com/fundaciones/es/FundacionMapfreTavera/publicaciones/pu_clasicos/pucla_serie9_ca8/pucla_nahuatl_li1.shtml?idm=0900ab37810a7e94&seccion=publicaciones/pu_clasicos&ruta=Publicaciones|Biblioteca%20Digital%20Cl$asicos%20Tavera&titulo2=Serie%20IX.%20Fuentes%20lingü$isticas%20ind$igenas&categoria=Serie%20IX.%20Fuentes%20lingü$isticas%20ind$igenas Apologies if I am treading old ground and others already know about this, and also for sounding so much like an advert. (I can promise I have no financial interest!) I thought that it might be helpful to some to know that the CD was available. Best wishes, Caroline ----- Dr. Caroline Dodds Junior Research Fellow Sidney Sussex College CB2 3HU ced44 at cam.ac.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From schwallr at morris.umn.edu Mon Aug 1 15:44:39 2005 From: schwallr at morris.umn.edu (John F. Schwaller) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2005 10:44:39 -0500 Subject: Obras Cl=?iso-8859-1?Q?=E1sicas_sobre_la_Lengua__N=E1huatl?= In-Reply-To: <03d601c596ac$8a706450$f2140d54@Caroline> Message-ID: At 10:20 AM 8/1/2005, you wrote: >Prompted by the recent discussions about the >Molina reprint, I have remembered that someone >on the list a while ago mentioned a very useful >CD published by Digibis of facsimile Nahuatl >documents called 'Obras Clásicas sobre la Lengua >Náhuatl. At the time that it was mentioned, I >think that someone said it was no longer >available, and I wanted to let list members know >that it is still available to purchase. It is >available direct from Digibis, but I obtained a >copy via Libreria Ledi (who, unlike Digibis, >will accept payment details via email). It is on >their website at >http://www.internationalbookseller.com/Inglese/digibis%202.htm >as part of the Colección Clásicos Tavera series. This is interesting. Miguel Leon Portilla, who edited the CD, told me about 18months ago that it was out of print. Perhaps they made some additional copies. I use it with great frequency and would recommend it to anyone who needs access to early Nahuatl imprints. John F. Schwaller Vice Chancellor for Academic Affairs and Dean 315 Behmler Hall University of Minnesota, Morris 600 E 4th Street Morris, MN 56267 320-589-6015 FAX 320-589-6399 schwallr at morris.umn.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ced44 at CAM.AC.UK Mon Aug 1 15:54:43 2005 From: ced44 at CAM.AC.UK (Caroline Dodds) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2005 16:54:43 +0100 Subject: Obras Cl=?iso-8859-1?Q?=E1sicas_sobre_la_Lengua__N=E1huatl?= Message-ID: Just to clarify, in case people were unsure of dates in light of John Schwaller's comment that Miguel Leon-Portilla had said 18 months ago that this was out of print, I bought this CD only last month. Although I may just have been lucky, there was nothing on either website to suggest it was out of print so hopefully Digibis have decided to keep this useful resource available. Caroline ----- Dr. Caroline Dodds Junior Research Fellow Sidney Sussex College CB2 3HU ced44 at cam.ac.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: John F. Schwaller To: NAHUAT-L at LISTS.UMN.EDU Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 4:44 PM Subject: Re: Obras Clásicas sobre la Lengua Náhuatl At 10:20 AM 8/1/2005, you wrote: Prompted by the recent discussions about the Molina reprint, I have remembered that someone on the list a while ago mentioned a very useful CD published by Digibis of facsimile Nahuatl documents called 'Obras Clásicas sobre la Lengua Náhuatl. At the time that it was mentioned, I think that someone said it was no longer available, and I wanted to let list members know that it is still available to purchase. It is available direct from Digibis, but I obtained a copy via Libreria Ledi (who, unlike Digibis, will accept payment details via email). It is on their website at http://www.internationalbookseller.com/Inglese/digibis%202.htm as part of the Colección Clásicos Tavera series. This is interesting. Miguel Leon Portilla, who edited the CD, told me about 18months ago that it was out of print. Perhaps they made some additional copies. I use it with great frequency and would recommend it to anyone who needs access to early Nahuatl imprints. John F. Schwaller Vice Chancellor for Academic Affairs and Dean 315 Behmler Hall University of Minnesota, Morris 600 E 4th Street Morris, MN 56267 320-589-6015 FAX 320-589-6399 schwallr at morris.umn.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From campbel at INDIANA.EDU Mon Aug 1 16:45:42 2005 From: campbel at INDIANA.EDU (R. Joe Campbell) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2005 11:45:42 -0500 Subject: Obras Cl=?iso-8859-1?Q?=E1sicas_sobre_la_Lengua__N=E1huatl?= In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20050801104329.03d45318@schwallr.email.umn.edu> Message-ID: I was just getting ready to say what a joy the Digibis CD is to use. I have been using it since 2000, mainly for easy reference to Molina 1555. According to my memory, as well as e-mails from Digibis, the compiler of the CD is Ascension Hernandez de Leon-Portilla, rather than Miguel Leon-Portilla. |8-) Joe From ced44 at CAM.AC.UK Mon Aug 1 16:48:27 2005 From: ced44 at CAM.AC.UK (Caroline Dodds) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2005 17:48:27 +0100 Subject: Obras Cl=?iso-8859-1?Q?=E1sicas_sobre_la_Lengua__N=E1huatl?= Message-ID: Oops, yes, of course you are right! Apologies to both Portillas and to anyone I may have confused. Caroline ----- Dr. Caroline Dodds Junior Research Fellow Sidney Sussex College CB2 3HU ced44 at cam.ac.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: "R. Joe Campbell" To: Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 5:45 PM Subject: Re: Obras Clásicas sobre la Lengua Náhuatl > I was just getting ready to say what a joy the Digibis CD is to use. > I have been using it since 2000, mainly for easy reference to Molina 1555. > > According to my memory, as well as e-mails from Digibis, the compiler > of the CD is Ascension Hernandez de Leon-Portilla, rather than Miguel > Leon-Portilla. |8-) > > Joe From campbel at INDIANA.EDU Tue Aug 2 20:32:44 2005 From: campbel at INDIANA.EDU (R. Joe Campbell) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2005 15:32:44 -0500 Subject: new Molina printing In-Reply-To: <000a01c596aa$fc17ebc0$020ba8c0@sotec6y0gtxrq9> Message-ID: Regarding the use of the word "facsimile" (and related forms), I have a problem. My problem particularly relates to the Porrua edition of Molina, which I believe does not qualify as a facsimile edition, since it is, in fact, a facsimile edition of the Platzmann 1880 Molina, although neither the type-face nor the pages are the same size. That is the location of the weak link; Platzmann is *not* a facsimile of the 1571 Molina. It does not contain literal images of the folios of the 1571 publication, as do the 1944 Ediciones Cultura Hispanica volume and the 2001 volume edited by Esther Hernandez. Rather, type was re-set in 1880, leaving the way open for the introduction of new errors, something which is impossible in a true facsimile edition. The way being open, many errors were in fact introduced, some of the popular ones being substitution of 'v' (or 'u') for 'n' and vice versa, as well as mis-readings between 'y' and 'v'. What all of these editions do share is the original spelling, including "tall s", c-cedilla, and vowel abbreviations. However, the type-font of Platzmann is not the type-font of the original. And the wavy lines of type of the 1571 edition are certainly missing in Platzmann!! Maria Moliner's definition of "facsi'mil" or "facsi'mile": "Copia o reproduccio'n exacta de un libro, un impreso, un dibujo, una firma, etc." If there was an older, looser, and no longer current use of "facsimile", I would be interested in knowing about it. Joe > > Some information about the facsimil edition which was printed in Spain: > > Fray Alonso de Molina, Vocabulario en lengua castellana y mexicana, Estudio > de Esther Hernandez, Ediciones de Cultura Hispanica, Agencia Espanyola de > Cooperacion Internacional, Madrid, 2001. > ISBN (Obra completa) 84-7232-869-4; (Facsimil) 84-7232-870-8; (Estudio) > 84-7232-871-6 > > It is the facsimil edition of 1571 (as well as that of Porrua), and was > taken from the copy that is in the Biblioteca Nacional de Espanya. The last > page of the facsimil says: "Edicion facsimilar de 1.000 ejemplares > numerados". > From ecultura at GMAIL.COM Wed Aug 3 14:27:19 2005 From: ecultura at GMAIL.COM (rosa quintero) Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2005 09:27:19 -0500 Subject: Obras Cl=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=E1sicas_sobre_la_Lengua_N=E1huatl?= In-Reply-To: <03d601c596ac$8a706450$f2140d54@Caroline> Message-ID: Muchas Gracias Caroline!! On 8/1/05, Caroline Dodds wrote: > Prompted by the recent discussions about the Molina reprint, I have > remembered that someone on the list a while ago mentioned a very useful CD > published by Digibis of facsimile Nahuatl documents called 'Obras Clásicas > sobre la Lengua Náhuatl. At the time that it was mentioned, I think that > someone said it was no longer available, and I wanted to let list members > know that it is still available to purchase. It is available direct from > Digibis, but I obtained a copy via Libreria Ledi (who, unlike Digibis, will > accept payment details via email). It is on their website at > http://www.internationalbookseller.com/Inglese/digibis%202.htm > as part of the Colección Clásicos Tavera series. > > Although it is not cheap (180 euros), it has a large number of texts, > including work by Aldama y Guevara, Ixtlilxochitl, Bautista, Carochi, > Icazbalceta, Molina, Olmos and Sahagun amongst others, and so I thought that > list members might like to know that it is still available. A full list of > the contents is online here: > http://www.mapfre.com/fundaciones/es/FundacionMapfreTavera/publicaciones/pu_clasicos/pucla_serie9_ca8/pucla_nahuatl_li1.shtml?idm=0900ab37810a7e94&seccion=publicaciones/pu_clasicos&ruta=Publicaciones|Biblioteca%20Digital%20Cl$asicos%20Tavera&titulo2=Serie%20IX.%20Fuentes%20lingü$isticas%20ind$igenas&categoria=Serie%20IX.%20Fuentes%20lingü$isticas%20ind$igenas > > Apologies if I am treading old ground and others already know about this, > and also for sounding so much like an advert. (I can promise I have no > financial interest!) I thought that it might be helpful to some to know that > the CD was available. > > Best wishes, > Caroline > ----- > Dr. Caroline Dodds > Junior Research Fellow > Sidney Sussex College > CB2 3HU > > ced44 at cam.ac.uk > From campbel at INDIANA.EDU Wed Aug 3 16:11:06 2005 From: campbel at INDIANA.EDU (campbel at INDIANA.EDU) Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2005 11:11:06 -0500 Subject: Obras Cl=?iso-8859-1?Q?=E1sicas_sobre_la_Lengua_N=E1huatl?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Inspired by Caroline's prodding of my memory, I dug out the Digibis listing of their CD offerings. If I said it was a treasure (which it is), it wouldn't be hyperbole... but I won't say that -- I'll leave it for others to say. Joe ALDAMA y GUEVARA, Jose Agustin (1754): Arte de la lengua mexicana. Mexico. Imprenta de la Lengua mexicana. ALVA, Bartolome de (1634): Confessionario mayor y menor de la lengua mexicana: y platicas contra las supersticiones de idolatria... Mexico. Francisco Salbago. AQUINO CORTeS Y CEDEnnO, Geronymo Thomas de (1765): Arte, vocabulario y confessionario en el idioma mexicano: como se usa el en Obispado de Guadalajara. Puebla de los angeles (Mexico). Imprenta del Colegio Real de San Ignacio de Puebla de los angeles. ARENAS, Pedro de (1611): Vocabulario manual de las lenguas castellana y mexicana. Mexico. Henrico Martinez. BAUTISTA, (Fray) Juan (1600): Advertencias para los confessores de los naturales... (2 volumenes). Tlatilulco - Convento de Santiago de Tlatilulco. M. Ocharte. BAUTISTA, (Fray) Juan (1600): Huehuetlahtolli: que contiene las platicas... Tlatilulco. Convento de Santiago de Tlatilulco. BAUTISTA, (Fray) Juan (1606): A Iesu Christo S.N. ofrece este sermonario en lengua mexicana. Mexico. Casa de Diego Lopez Davalos. CARCHI, Horacio (1645): Arte de la lengua mexicana con la declaracion de los adverbios della. Mexico. Juan Ruyz. Doctrina christiana en lengua espannola y mexicana: hecha por los religiosos de la Orden de Santiago (1548). Mexico. Casa de Juan Pablos. GALDO GUZMaN, (Fray) Diego de (1642): Arte mexicano. Mexico. Viuda de Bernardo Calderon. GANTE, (Fray) Pedro (1553): Doctrina Christiana en lengua mexicana. Mexico. Casa de Juan Pablos. GAONA, (Fray) Juan de (1582): Colloquios de la paz y tranquilidad christiana, en lengua mexicana. Mexico. Casa de Juan Plablos. GARCiA ICAZBALCETA, Joaquin (1889): Nueva coleccion de documentos para la historia de Mexico (2 volumenes). Mexico. Antigua Libreria de Andrade y Morales, Sucesores, Tomo I (Codice Franciscano, siglo XVI). GUERRA, (Fray) Juan (1692): Arte de la lengua mexicana: que fue usual entre los indios del Obispado de Guadalajara y de parte de los de Durango y Michoacan. Guadalajara. Viuda de Francisco Rodriguez Lupericio. GUERRA, (Fray) Juan (1900): Arte de la lengua mexicana: que fue usual entre los indios del Obispado de Guadalajara y de parte de los de Durango y Michoacan. Guadalajara. Alberto Santoscoy. LASSO DE LA VEGA, Luis (1649): Huei tlamahvizoltica omonexiti in Ilhuicac Tlatoca Cichuapilli... Mexico. Imprenta Iuan Ruyz. LEoN, (Fray) Martin de (1611): Camino del cielo en lengua mexicana... Mexico. Imprenta de Diego Lopez Davalos. MIJANGOS, Fray Juan de (1607): Espejo divino en lengua mexicana en que pueden verse los Padres y tomar documento para acercar a adoptrinar bien a sus hijos, y aficionallos a las virtudes. Mexico. Imprenta de Diego Lopez Davalos. MOLINA, (Fray) Alonso de (1555): Aqui comienza un vocubalario en la lengua castellana y mexicana. Mexico. Casa de Juan Pablos. MOLINA, (Fray) Alonso de (1565): Confessionario breve en lengua mexicana y castellana. Mexico. Casa de Antonio de Spinosa. MOLINA, (Fray) Alonso de (1565): Confessionario Mayor en lengua mexicana y castellana. Mexico. Casa de Antonio de Spinosa. MOLINA, (Fray) Alonso de (1571): Arte de la lengua mexicana y castellana. Mexico. Casa de Pedro Ocharte. MOLINA, (Fray) Alonso de (1571): Vocabulario en lengua mexicana y castellana. Mexico. Casa de Antonio de Spinosa. OLMOS, (Fray) Ignacio de (1547): Arte de la lengua mexicana. [S.l.]. [S.n.]. PAREDES, Ignacio de (1759): Promptuario manual mexicano. Mexico. Imprenta de la Biblioteca Mexicana. PeREZ, (Fray) Manuel (1713): Arte del idioma mexicano. Mexico. Francisco Rivera Calderon. PeREZ, (Fray) Manuel (1713): Farol indiano y guia de curas de indios... Mexico. Francisco Rivera Calderon. RINCoN, Antonio del (1595): Arte mexicana. Casa de Pedro Balli. RIPALDA, Geronymo de (1758): Catecismo mexicano que contiene toda la doctrina christiana... Mexico. Imprenta de la Biblioteca Mexicana. SAAVEDRA, (Fray) Marcos de (1746): Confessionario breve activo y pasivo en lengua mexicana... Mexico. Imprenta Real del Superior Gobierno, del Nuevo Rezado, de Donna Maria de Rivera. SAENZ DE LA PEnnA, Andres (1642): Manual de los Santos Sacramentos...= Mexico. Francisco Robledo. SAHAGuN, (Fray) Bernardino de (1583): Psalmodia Christiana y Sermonario de los Sanctos del Anno, en lengua mexicana. Mexico. Con licencia en Casa de Pedro Ocharte. SANDOVAL, Rafael (1888): Arte de la lengua mexicana. Ramon Garcia Raya. TAPIA CENTENO, Carlos de (1753): Arte novissima de lengua mexicana... Mexico. Viuda de Joseph Bernardo de Hogal. VaZQUEZ GATELU, Antonio (1689): Arte de Lengua Mexicana. [S.l.]. Fernandez de Leon VETANCOURT, (Fray) Agustin (1673): Arte de lengua mexicana... Mexico. Francisco Rodriguez Lupericio. From jrabasa at CALMAIL.BERKELEY.EDU Wed Aug 3 16:42:48 2005 From: jrabasa at CALMAIL.BERKELEY.EDU (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Jos=E9_Rabasa?=) Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2005 09:42:48 -0700 Subject: Obras Cl=?iso-8859-1?Q?=E1sicas_sobre_la_Lengua_N=E1huatl?= In-Reply-To: <1123085466.42f0ec9a30730@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: Thanks, Joe, for providing the list of texts. The collection is indeed precious. Jose > Inspired by Caroline's prodding of my memory, I dug out the Digibis listing >of their CD offerings. If I said it was a treasure (which it is), it wouldn't >be hyperbole... but I won't say that -- I'll leave it for others to say. > >Joe > > >ALDAMA y GUEVARA, Jose Agustin (1754): Arte de la lengua mexicana. Mexico. >Imprenta de la Lengua mexicana. > >ALVA, Bartolome de (1634): Confessionario mayor y menor de la lengua >mexicana: y platicas contra las supersticiones de idolatria... Mexico. >Francisco Salbago. > >AQUINO CORTeS Y CEDEnnO, Geronymo Thomas de (1765): Arte, vocabulario y >confessionario en el idioma mexicano: como se usa el en Obispado de >Guadalajara. Puebla de los angeles (Mexico). Imprenta del Colegio Real de >San Ignacio de Puebla de los angeles. > >ARENAS, Pedro de (1611): Vocabulario manual de las lenguas castellana y >mexicana. Mexico. Henrico Martinez. > >BAUTISTA, (Fray) Juan (1600): Advertencias para los confessores de los >naturales... (2 volumenes). Tlatilulco - Convento de Santiago de Tlatilulco. >M. Ocharte. > >BAUTISTA, (Fray) Juan (1600): Huehuetlahtolli: que contiene las platicas... >Tlatilulco. Convento de Santiago de Tlatilulco. > >BAUTISTA, (Fray) Juan (1606): A Iesu Christo S.N. ofrece este sermonario en >lengua mexicana. Mexico. Casa de Diego Lopez Davalos. > >CARCHI, Horacio (1645): Arte de la lengua mexicana con la declaracion de los >adverbios della. Mexico. Juan Ruyz. > >Doctrina christiana en lengua espannola y mexicana: hecha por los religiosos >de la Orden de Santiago (1548). Mexico. Casa de Juan Pablos. > >GALDO GUZMaN, (Fray) Diego de (1642): Arte mexicano. Mexico. Viuda de >Bernardo Calderon. > >GANTE, (Fray) Pedro (1553): Doctrina Christiana en lengua mexicana. Mexico. >Casa de Juan Pablos. > >GAONA, (Fray) Juan de (1582): Colloquios de la paz y tranquilidad >christiana, en lengua mexicana. Mexico. Casa de Juan Plablos. > >GARCiA ICAZBALCETA, Joaquin (1889): Nueva coleccion de documentos para la >historia de Mexico (2 volumenes). Mexico. Antigua Libreria de Andrade y >Morales, Sucesores, Tomo I (Codice Franciscano, siglo XVI). > >GUERRA, (Fray) Juan (1692): Arte de la lengua mexicana: que fue usual entre >los indios del Obispado de Guadalajara y de parte de los de Durango y >Michoacan. Guadalajara. Viuda de Francisco Rodriguez Lupericio. > >GUERRA, (Fray) Juan (1900): Arte de la lengua mexicana: que fue usual entre >los indios del Obispado de Guadalajara y de parte de los de Durango y >Michoacan. Guadalajara. Alberto Santoscoy. > >LASSO DE LA VEGA, Luis (1649): Huei tlamahvizoltica omonexiti in Ilhuicac >Tlatoca Cichuapilli... Mexico. Imprenta Iuan Ruyz. > >LEoN, (Fray) Martin de (1611): Camino del cielo en lengua mexicana... >Mexico. Imprenta de Diego Lopez Davalos. > > >MIJANGOS, Fray Juan de (1607): Espejo divino en lengua mexicana en que >pueden verse los Padres y tomar documento para acercar a adoptrinar bien a >sus hijos, y aficionallos a las virtudes. Mexico. Imprenta de Diego Lopez >Davalos. > >MOLINA, (Fray) Alonso de (1555): Aqui comienza un vocubalario en la lengua >castellana y mexicana. Mexico. Casa de Juan Pablos. > >MOLINA, (Fray) Alonso de (1565): Confessionario breve en lengua mexicana y >castellana. Mexico. Casa de Antonio de Spinosa. > >MOLINA, (Fray) Alonso de (1565): Confessionario Mayor en lengua mexicana y >castellana. Mexico. Casa de Antonio de Spinosa. > >MOLINA, (Fray) Alonso de (1571): Arte de la lengua mexicana y castellana. >Mexico. Casa de Pedro Ocharte. > >MOLINA, (Fray) Alonso de (1571): Vocabulario en lengua mexicana y >castellana. Mexico. Casa de Antonio de Spinosa. > >OLMOS, (Fray) Ignacio de (1547): Arte de la lengua mexicana. [S.l.]. [S.n.]. > >PAREDES, Ignacio de (1759): Promptuario manual mexicano. Mexico. Imprenta de >la Biblioteca Mexicana. > >PeREZ, (Fray) Manuel (1713): Arte del idioma mexicano. Mexico. Francisco >Rivera Calderon. > >PeREZ, (Fray) Manuel (1713): Farol indiano y guia de curas de indios... >Mexico. Francisco Rivera Calderon. > >RINCoN, Antonio del (1595): Arte mexicana. Casa de Pedro Balli. > >RIPALDA, Geronymo de (1758): Catecismo mexicano que contiene toda la >doctrina christiana... Mexico. Imprenta de la Biblioteca Mexicana. > >SAAVEDRA, (Fray) Marcos de (1746): Confessionario breve activo y pasivo en >lengua mexicana... Mexico. Imprenta Real del Superior Gobierno, del Nuevo >Rezado, de Donna Maria de Rivera. > >SAENZ DE LA PEnnA, Andres (1642): Manual de los Santos Sacramentos...= > Mexico. >Francisco Robledo. > >SAHAGuN, (Fray) Bernardino de (1583): Psalmodia Christiana y Sermonario de >los Sanctos del Anno, en lengua mexicana. Mexico. Con licencia en Casa de >Pedro Ocharte. > >SANDOVAL, Rafael (1888): Arte de la lengua mexicana. Ramon Garcia Raya. > >TAPIA CENTENO, Carlos de (1753): Arte novissima de lengua mexicana... >Mexico. Viuda de Joseph Bernardo de Hogal. > >VaZQUEZ GATELU, Antonio (1689): Arte de Lengua Mexicana. [S.l.]. Fernandez >de Leon > >VETANCOURT, (Fray) Agustin (1673): Arte de lengua mexicana... Mexico. >Francisco Rodriguez Lupericio. From ced44 at CAM.AC.UK Mon Aug 8 16:55:44 2005 From: ced44 at CAM.AC.UK (Caroline Dodds) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2005 17:55:44 +0100 Subject: Image permissions/copyright Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, I am currently working on my first book for Palgrave (a development of my doctoral thesis about gender in Aztec culture) and I was hoping that those on the list with far greater experience might be prepared to offer some advice about copyright permissions. As is usual with these things, I am wrangling with the publisher about costs of permissions and who will pay them (mostly me!) and so have been investigating the best place to obtain some images. The cost of permissions vary tremendously between institutions and I was wondering if anyone could recommend any particularly good (and preferably affordable) sources of Aztec images. The pictures in the book will be black and white in-text images, not plates, and are mostly intended to illustrate the text and evoke the sense of the culture, rather than to be critical to the discussion, which gives me quite a lot of flexibility. Any advice or suggestions which you could offer would be much appreciated. Thank you all in advance. Yours, Caroline ----- Dr. Caroline Dodds Junior Research Fellow Sidney Sussex College CB2 3HU ced44 at cam.ac.uk From swood at DARKWING.UOREGON.EDU Mon Aug 8 17:18:29 2005 From: swood at DARKWING.UOREGON.EDU (Stephanie Wood) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2005 10:18:29 -0700 Subject: Image permissions/copyright In-Reply-To: <047201c59c3a$044e6550$fa1b0d54@Caroline> Message-ID: Dear Caroline, Although the policy may have changed since my last publication, the Archivo General de la Nacion has not charged me when I have published an image from one of their manuscripts (except for the cost of purchasing the slide). The INAH, however, charged me $75 USD per image, even when it was a drawing made by an artist that I paid to make a copy from a photograph of a manuscript page or image. Others can better speak to the cost of reproducing an image of an object or archaeological site. Best wishes, Stephanie Wood ------------------- > Dear Colleagues, > > I am currently working on my first book for Palgrave (a development of my > doctoral thesis about gender in Aztec culture) and I was hoping that those > on the list with far greater experience might be prepared to offer some > advice about copyright permissions. As is usual with these things, I am > wrangling with the publisher about costs of permissions and who will pay > them (mostly me!) and so have been investigating the best place to obtain > some images. The cost of permissions vary tremendously between institutions > and I was wondering if anyone could recommend any particularly good (and > preferably affordable) sources of Aztec images. > > The pictures in the book will be black and white in-text images, not plates, > and are mostly intended to illustrate the text and evoke the sense of the > culture, rather than to be critical to the discussion, which gives me quite > a lot of flexibility. Any advice or suggestions which you could offer would > be much appreciated. Thank you all in advance. > > Yours, > Caroline > ----- > Dr. Caroline Dodds > Junior Research Fellow > Sidney Sussex College > CB2 3HU > > ced44 at cam.ac.uk > From jrabasa at CALMAIL.BERKELEY.EDU Mon Aug 8 22:04:46 2005 From: jrabasa at CALMAIL.BERKELEY.EDU (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Jos=E9_Rabasa?=) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2005 15:04:46 -0700 Subject: Image permissions/copyright In-Reply-To: <047201c59c3a$044e6550$fa1b0d54@Caroline> Message-ID: Hi Caroline: Estephanie is right about the charges by INAH. I just got a hefty bill. Note that the Bibliotheque nationale de France is one of the few institutions that does not charge for permissions to reproduce materials in academic publications. As you know their collection is superb. Best wishes, Jose >Dear Colleagues, > >I am currently working on my first book for Palgrave (a development >of my doctoral thesis about gender in Aztec culture) and I was >hoping that those on the list with far greater experience might be >prepared to offer some advice about copyright permissions. As is >usual with these things, I am wrangling with the publisher about >costs of permissions and who will pay them (mostly me!) and so have >been investigating the best place to obtain some images. The cost of >permissions vary tremendously between institutions and I was >wondering if anyone could recommend any particularly good (and >preferably affordable) sources of Aztec images. > >The pictures in the book will be black and white in-text images, not >plates, and are mostly intended to illustrate the text and evoke the >sense of the culture, rather than to be critical to the discussion, >which gives me quite a lot of flexibility. Any advice or suggestions >which you could offer would be much appreciated. Thank you all in >advance. > >Yours, >Caroline >----- >Dr. Caroline Dodds >Junior Research Fellow >Sidney Sussex College >CB2 3HU > >ced44 at cam.ac.uk From institute at CSUMB.EDU Wed Aug 10 12:47:27 2005 From: institute at CSUMB.EDU (Archaeology Institute) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 05:47:27 -0700 Subject: Image permissions/copyright In-Reply-To: <047201c59c3a$044e6550$fa1b0d54@Caroline> Message-ID: Nahua language and culture discussion writes: >Dear Colleagues, > >I am currently working on my first book for Palgrave (a development of my >doctoral thesis about gender in Aztec culture) and I was hoping that those >on the list with far greater experience might be prepared to offer some >advice about copyright permissions. As is usual with these things, I am >wrangling with the publisher about costs of permissions and who will pay >them (mostly me!) and so have been investigating the best place to obtain >some images. The cost of permissions vary tremendously between institutions >and I was wondering if anyone could recommend any particularly good (and >preferably affordable) sources of Aztec images. > >The pictures in the book will be black and white in-text images, not plates, >and are mostly intended to illustrate the text and evoke the sense of the >culture, rather than to be critical to the discussion, which gives me quite >a lot of flexibility. Any advice or suggestions which you could offer would >be much appreciated. Thank you all in advance. > >Yours, >Caroline >----- >Dr. Caroline Dodds >Junior Research Fellow >Sidney Sussex College >CB2 3HU > >ced44 at cam.ac.uk Dear Dr. Dodds, I recently faced this very same issue with respect to indexing, bibliography, and illustrations needs, and prepared a proposal for a "publication subvention" to cover such costs. My co-editor and I submitted this request and were funded by his Dean. As such, all indexing and cross-referencing of bibliography and illustrations fees were covered. You may wish to consider this option for your own book. PS: I have a large collection of images (ca. 300,000 slides) that I've produced during the past 30 years...and the majority concern Mesoamerican themes. Best Regards, Ruben G. Mendoza, Ph.D., Director Institute for Archaeological Science, Technology and Visualization Social and Behavioral Sciences California State University Monterey Bay 100 Campus Center Seaside, California 93955-8001 Email: archaeology_institute at csumb..edu Voice: 831-582-3760; Fax: 831-582-3566 http://archaeology.csumb.edu; http://archaeology.csumb.edu/wireless/ "If we knew what we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?" -Albert Einstein Confidentiality Notice: The information contained in this e-mail message is sender-privileged and confidential information. It is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, electronic storage or use of this communication is prohibited. From mrharri1 at FACSTAFF.WISC.EDU Sat Aug 13 14:15:47 2005 From: mrharri1 at FACSTAFF.WISC.EDU (MAX R HARRIS) Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2005 09:15:47 -0500 Subject: Image permissions/copyright Message-ID: Dear Caroline, In my Aztecs, Moors, and Christians (2000), I used images from the Codex Borbonicus, ed. Karl Nowotny (1974), courtesy of Akademische Druck-u. Verlagsanstalt; the Florentine Codex, 13 vols., ed. and trans. Anderson and Dribble (1950-1982), courtesy of the University of Utah Press and the School of American Research; and the Codice Aubin [Historia de la nacion mexicana, ed. and trans. Charles Dibble (1963)], courtesy of Editorial Porrua. None of these publishers asked for anything more than the proper acknowledgment. Best wishes, Max Harris ----- Original Message ----- From: Caroline Dodds Date: Monday, August 8, 2005 11:55 am Subject: Image permissions/copyright > Dear Colleagues, > > I am currently working on my first book for Palgrave (a > development of my > doctoral thesis about gender in Aztec culture) and I was hoping > that those > on the list with far greater experience might be prepared to offer > some > advice about copyright permissions. As is usual with these things, > I am > wrangling with the publisher about costs of permissions and who > will pay > them (mostly me!) and so have been investigating the best place to > obtain > some images. The cost of permissions vary tremendously between > institutions > and I was wondering if anyone could recommend any particularly > good (and > preferably affordable) sources of Aztec images. > > The pictures in the book will be black and white in-text images, > not plates, > and are mostly intended to illustrate the text and evoke the sense > of the > culture, rather than to be critical to the discussion, which gives > me quite > a lot of flexibility. Any advice or suggestions which you could > offer would > be much appreciated. Thank you all in advance. > > Yours, > Caroline > ----- > Dr. Caroline Dodds > Junior Research Fellow > Sidney Sussex College > CB2 3HU > > ced44 at cam.ac.uk > From jrabasa at CALMAIL.BERKELEY.EDU Sat Aug 13 16:49:54 2005 From: jrabasa at CALMAIL.BERKELEY.EDU (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Jos=E9_Rabasa?=) Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2005 09:49:54 -0700 Subject: Image permissions/copyright In-Reply-To: <1515fb615143c0.15143c01515fb6@wiscmail.wisc.edu> Message-ID: Dear Caroline and Max: It is my impression that the days when publishers gave permission are over, given that libraries claim rights. This was for instance the case with a request to use images from the UC Berkeley edition of the Mendoza; they just sent me to the Bodleyian. Having said this, Caroline, you may as well try Max's recommendation first. It might work. I am currently waiting for authorization to use a reproduction of a a page from the facsimile of the Florentine Codex. Who has the rights? The photographer, the publisher or the Biblioteca Medicea Laurenziana? I have the impression that we had this discussion before and that the general opinion was that it is the libraries who hold the rights. Unfortunately, I might add. But this is not the place for nationalist rant. Jose >Dear Caroline, > >In my Aztecs, Moors, and Christians (2000), I used images from the >Codex Borbonicus, ed. Karl Nowotny (1974), courtesy of Akademische >Druck-u. Verlagsanstalt; the Florentine Codex, 13 vols., ed. and >trans. Anderson and Dribble (1950-1982), courtesy of the University of >Utah Press and the School of American Research; and the Codice Aubin >[Historia de la nacion mexicana, ed. and trans. Charles Dibble >(1963)], courtesy of Editorial Porrua. None of these publishers asked >for anything more than the proper acknowledgment. > >Best wishes, > >Max Harris > > > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Caroline Dodds >Date: Monday, August 8, 2005 11:55 am >Subject: Image permissions/copyright > >> Dear Colleagues, >> >> I am currently working on my first book for Palgrave (a >> development of my >> doctoral thesis about gender in Aztec culture) and I was hoping >> that those >> on the list with far greater experience might be prepared to offer >> some >> advice about copyright permissions. As is usual with these things, >> I am >> wrangling with the publisher about costs of permissions and who >> will pay >> them (mostly me!) and so have been investigating the best place to >> obtain >> some images. The cost of permissions vary tremendously between >> institutions >> and I was wondering if anyone could recommend any particularly >> good (and >> preferably affordable) sources of Aztec images. >> >> The pictures in the book will be black and white in-text images, >> not plates, >> and are mostly intended to illustrate the text and evoke the sense >> of the >> culture, rather than to be critical to the discussion, which gives >> me quite >> a lot of flexibility. Any advice or suggestions which you could >> offer would >> be much appreciated. Thank you all in advance. >> >> Yours, >> Caroline >> ----- >> Dr. Caroline Dodds >> Junior Research Fellow >> Sidney Sussex College >> CB2 3HU >> >> ced44 at cam.ac.uk >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sfargo at EARTHLINK.NET Sat Aug 13 21:23:34 2005 From: sfargo at EARTHLINK.NET (sfargo@earthlink.net) Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2005 17:23:34 -0400 Subject: Image permissions/copyright Message-ID: To:NAHUAT-L at LISTS.UMN.EDU Did UC Press say whether that applied to the tracings of the Mendoza codex? I was going to use some bits from the "Pictorial Parallel Image Replicas" marked as * tracings* by Jean Cuker Sells from page 8 of that section of the paperback to label details of a European painting. So I wonder if the Bodleian has the rights to the tracings. I'm only using them to mark some details 2-tecpatl through 10-tecpatl, and was copying the details from the tracings because they're more legible than the original with its blue paint. For that one illustration, an alternative would be to write "ce acatl" etc. phonetically, since the details are labels. I wonder what the story is for tiny details though. The illustration is an extreme case since 1-acatl is from another codex and the labels are on details from a painting, and I was hoping UC Press, Vienna, and Patrimonio Nacional would just okay it without charging anything, in other words there would have to be permission, but permission might be free. I wonder what Vienna would be likely to charge for one ce-acatl. (see attached) Susan Gilchrist Original Message: ----------------- From: José Rabasa jrabasa at CALMAIL.BERKELEY.EDU Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2005 09:49:54 -0700 To: NAHUAT-L at LISTS.UMN.EDU Subject: Re: Image permissions/copyright Dear Caroline and Max: It is my impression that the days when publishers gave permission are over, given that libraries claim rights. This was for instance the case with a request to use images from the UC Berkeley edition of the Mendoza; they just sent me to the Bodleyian. Having said this, Caroline, you may as well try Max's recommendation first. It might work. I am currently waiting for authorization to use a reproduction of a a page from the facsimile of the Florentine Codex. Who has the rights? The photographer, the publisher or the Biblioteca Medicea Laurenziana? I have the impression that we had this discussion before and that the general opinion was that it is the libraries who hold the rights. Unfortunately, I might add. But this is not the place for nationalist rant. Jose >Dear Caroline, > >In my Aztecs, Moors, and Christians (2000), I used images from the >Codex Borbonicus, ed. Karl Nowotny (1974), courtesy of Akademische >Druck-u. Verlagsanstalt; the Florentine Codex, 13 vols., ed. and >trans. Anderson and Dribble (1950-1982), courtesy of the University of >Utah Press and the School of American Research; and the Codice Aubin >[Historia de la nacion mexicana, ed. and trans. Charles Dibble >(1963)], courtesy of Editorial Porrua. None of these publishers asked >for anything more than the proper acknowledgment. > >Best wishes, > >Max Harris > > > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Caroline Dodds >Date: Monday, August 8, 2005 11:55 am >Subject: Image permissions/copyright > >> Dear Colleagues, >> >> I am currently working on my first book for Palgrave (a >> development of my >> doctoral thesis about gender in Aztec culture) and I was hoping >> that those >> on the list with far greater experience might be prepared to offer >> some >> advice about copyright permissions. As is usual with these things, >> I am >> wrangling with the publisher about costs of permissions and who >> will pay >> them (mostly me!) and so have been investigating the best place to >> obtain >> some images. The cost of permissions vary tremendously between >> institutions >> and I was wondering if anyone could recommend any particularly >> good (and >> preferably affordable) sources of Aztec images. >> >> The pictures in the book will be black and white in-text images, >> not plates, >> and are mostly intended to illustrate the text and evoke the sense >> of the >> culture, rather than to be critical to the discussion, which gives >> me quite >> a lot of flexibility. Any advice or suggestions which you could >> offer would >> be much appreciated. Thank you all in advance. >> >> Yours, >> Caroline >> ----- >> Dr. Caroline Dodds >> Junior Research Fellow >> Sidney Sussex College >> CB2 3HU >> >> ced44 at cam.ac.uk >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: chronology.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 91329 bytes Desc: chronology.jpg URL: From ced44 at CAM.AC.UK Mon Aug 15 08:22:45 2005 From: ced44 at CAM.AC.UK (Caroline Dodds) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 09:22:45 +0100 Subject: Image permissions/copyright Message-ID: Dear Max, Thanks so much for taking the time to reply to my question. I really appreciate your advice and will certainly try approaching the relevant publishers. (And I really enjoyed your book, by the way! I found it very thought-provoking and offered a lot of new perspectives on the ritual/cultural dimension.) Best wishes and thanks again, Caroline ----- Dr. Caroline Dodds Junior Research Fellow Sidney Sussex College CB2 3HU ced44 at cam.ac.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: "MAX R HARRIS" To: Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2005 3:15 PM Subject: Re: Image permissions/copyright > Dear Caroline, > > In my Aztecs, Moors, and Christians (2000), I used images from the > Codex Borbonicus, ed. Karl Nowotny (1974), courtesy of Akademische > Druck-u. Verlagsanstalt; the Florentine Codex, 13 vols., ed. and > trans. Anderson and Dribble (1950-1982), courtesy of the University of > Utah Press and the School of American Research; and the Codice Aubin > [Historia de la nacion mexicana, ed. and trans. Charles Dibble > (1963)], courtesy of Editorial Porrua. None of these publishers asked > for anything more than the proper acknowledgment. > > Best wishes, > > Max Harris > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Caroline Dodds > Date: Monday, August 8, 2005 11:55 am > Subject: Image permissions/copyright > >> Dear Colleagues, >> >> I am currently working on my first book for Palgrave (a >> development of my >> doctoral thesis about gender in Aztec culture) and I was hoping >> that those >> on the list with far greater experience might be prepared to offer >> some >> advice about copyright permissions. As is usual with these things, >> I am >> wrangling with the publisher about costs of permissions and who >> will pay >> them (mostly me!) and so have been investigating the best place to >> obtain >> some images. The cost of permissions vary tremendously between >> institutions >> and I was wondering if anyone could recommend any particularly >> good (and >> preferably affordable) sources of Aztec images. >> >> The pictures in the book will be black and white in-text images, >> not plates, >> and are mostly intended to illustrate the text and evoke the sense >> of the >> culture, rather than to be critical to the discussion, which gives >> me quite >> a lot of flexibility. Any advice or suggestions which you could >> offer would >> be much appreciated. Thank you all in advance. >> >> Yours, >> Caroline >> ----- >> Dr. Caroline Dodds >> Junior Research Fellow >> Sidney Sussex College >> CB2 3HU >> >> ced44 at cam.ac.uk >> From ced44 at CAM.AC.UK Mon Aug 15 08:23:39 2005 From: ced44 at CAM.AC.UK (Caroline Dodds) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 09:23:39 +0100 Subject: Image permissions/copyright Message-ID: Re: Image permissions/copyrightThanks so much to everyone who has taken the time to think about my question. I am very grateful for all the advice offered - it is really much appreciated. And also apologies for sending a message intended only for Max to the entire list! Just to contribute slightly to the debate - from my recent experience, I think that it is usually the libraries who claim copyright, but when I looked at the UC website you are now able to request copyright permissions for pages from their publications (including the Mendoza) online, so I presume that they are claiming the right to the four volume facsimile content. It is possible, of course, that they have come to an agreement with the Bodleian to that effect. And thinking about Susan's question - I think I am right in saying that a friend avoided a number of copyright permissions by creating his own line-drawings of images. If an image has been redrawn or modified in some way, I think that measure of whether you need permission is whether it is 'substantially' the same as the original. I just wondered whether, if you were prepared to draw your own version, if that might be a feasible solution, but it may still need permission, these things really seem to vary! Thanks to all again. Yours, Caroline ----- Dr. Caroline Dodds Junior Research Fellow Sidney Sussex College CB2 3HU ced44 at cam.ac.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: José Rabasa To: NAHUAT-L at LISTS.UMN.EDU Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2005 5:49 PM Subject: Re: Image permissions/copyright Dear Caroline and Max: It is my impression that the days when publishers gave permission are over, given that libraries claim rights. This was for instance the case with a request to use images from the UC Berkeley edition of the Mendoza; they just sent me to the Bodleyian. Having said this, Caroline, you may as well try Max's recommendation first. It might work. I am currently waiting for authorization to use a reproduction of a a page from the facsimile of the Florentine Codex. Who has the rights? The photographer, the publisher or the Biblioteca Medicea Laurenziana? I have the impression that we had this discussion before and that the general opinion was that it is the libraries who hold the rights. Unfortunately, I might add. But this is not the place for nationalist rant. Jose Dear Caroline, In my Aztecs, Moors, and Christians (2000), I used images from the Codex Borbonicus, ed. Karl Nowotny (1974), courtesy of Akademische Druck-u. Verlagsanstalt; the Florentine Codex, 13 vols., ed. and trans. Anderson and Dribble (1950-1982), courtesy of the University of Utah Press and the School of American Research; and the Codice Aubin [Historia de la nacion mexicana, ed. and trans. Charles Dibble (1963)], courtesy of Editorial Porrua. None of these publishers asked for anything more than the proper acknowledgment. Best wishes, Max Harris ----- Original Message ----- From: Caroline Dodds Date: Monday, August 8, 2005 11:55 am Subject: Image permissions/copyright > Dear Colleagues, > > I am currently working on my first book for Palgrave (a > development of my > doctoral thesis about gender in Aztec culture) and I was hoping > that those > on the list with far greater experience might be prepared to offer > some > advice about copyright permissions. As is usual with these things, > I am > wrangling with the publisher about costs of permissions and who > will pay > them (mostly me!) and so have been investigating the best place to > obtain > some images. The cost of permissions vary tremendously between > institutions > and I was wondering if anyone could recommend any particularly > good (and > preferably affordable) sources of Aztec images. > > The pictures in the book will be black and white in-text images, > not plates, > and are mostly intended to illustrate the text and evoke the sense > of the > culture, rather than to be critical to the discussion, which gives > me quite > a lot of flexibility. Any advice or suggestions which you could > offer would > be much appreciated. Thank you all in advance. > > Yours, > Caroline > ----- > Dr. Caroline Dodds > Junior Research Fellow > Sidney Sussex College > CB2 3HU > > ced44 at cam.ac.uk > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mijobas at YAHOO.COM Mon Aug 15 16:24:01 2005 From: mijobas at YAHOO.COM (Michael Stevenson) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 09:24:01 -0700 Subject: Image permissions/copyright In-Reply-To: <002a01c5a172$a3fce210$85070d54@Caroline> Message-ID: A link that concerns copyright issues with art on-line but seems pertinent to this discussion. http://www.medicif.org/dig_library/StateArt/Ipr/Thijm/thijm.html Best, Michael Stevenson --- Caroline Dodds wrote: > Re: Image permissions/copyrightThanks so much to > everyone who has taken the time to think about my > question. I am very grateful for all the advice > offered - it is really much appreciated. And also > apologies for sending a message intended only for > Max to the entire list! > > Just to contribute slightly to the debate - from my > recent experience, I think that it is usually the > libraries who claim copyright, but when I looked at > the UC website you are now able to request copyright > permissions for pages from their publications > (including the Mendoza) online, so I presume that > they are claiming the right to the four volume > facsimile content. It is possible, of course, that > they have come to an agreement with the Bodleian to > that effect. > > And thinking about Susan's question - I think I am > right in saying that a friend avoided a number of > copyright permissions by creating his own > line-drawings of images. If an image has been > redrawn or modified in some way, I think that > measure of whether you need permission is whether it > is 'substantially' the same as the original. I just > wondered whether, if you were prepared to draw your > own version, if that might be a feasible solution, > but it may still need permission, these things > really seem to vary! > > Thanks to all again. > Yours, > Caroline > ----- > Dr. Caroline Dodds > Junior Research Fellow > Sidney Sussex College > CB2 3HU > > ced44 at cam.ac.uk > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: José Rabasa > To: NAHUAT-L at LISTS.UMN.EDU > Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2005 5:49 PM > Subject: Re: Image permissions/copyright > > > Dear Caroline and Max: > > > It is my impression that the days when publishers > gave permission are over, given that libraries claim > rights. This was for instance the case with a > request to use images from the UC Berkeley edition > of the Mendoza; they just sent me to the Bodleyian. > Having said this, Caroline, you may as well try > Max's recommendation first. It might work. I am > currently waiting for authorization to use a > reproduction of a a page from the facsimile of the > Florentine Codex. Who has the rights? The > photographer, the publisher or the Biblioteca > Medicea Laurenziana? I have the impression that we > had this discussion before and that the general > opinion was that it is the libraries who hold the > rights. Unfortunately, I might add. But this is not > the place for nationalist rant. > > > Jose > > > Dear Caroline, > > In my Aztecs, Moors, and Christians (2000), I > used images from the > Codex Borbonicus, ed. Karl Nowotny (1974), > courtesy of Akademische > Druck-u. Verlagsanstalt; the Florentine Codex, > 13 vols., ed. and > trans. Anderson and Dribble (1950-1982), > courtesy of the University of > Utah Press and the School of American Research; > and the Codice Aubin > [Historia de la nacion mexicana, ed. and trans. > Charles Dibble > (1963)], courtesy of Editorial Porrua. None of > these publishers asked > for anything more than the proper > acknowledgment. > > Best wishes, > > Max Harris > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Caroline Dodds > Date: Monday, August 8, 2005 11:55 am > Subject: Image permissions/copyright > > > Dear Colleagues, > > > > I am currently working on my first book for > Palgrave (a > > development of my > > doctoral thesis about gender in Aztec culture) > and I was hoping > > that those > > on the list with far greater experience might > be prepared to offer > > some > > advice about copyright permissions. As is > usual with these things, > > I am > > wrangling with the publisher about costs of > permissions and who > > will pay > > them (mostly me!) and so have been > investigating the best place to > > obtain > > some images. The cost of permissions vary > tremendously between > > institutions > > and I was wondering if anyone could recommend > any particularly > > good (and > > preferably affordable) sources of Aztec > images. > > > > The pictures in the book will be black and > white in-text images, > > not plates, > > and are mostly intended to illustrate the text > and evoke the sense > > of the > > culture, rather than to be critical to the > discussion, which gives > > me quite > > a lot of flexibility. Any advice or > suggestions which you could > > offer would > > be much appreciated. Thank you all in advance. > > > > Yours, > > Caroline > > ----- > > Dr. Caroline Dodds > > Junior Research Fellow > > Sidney Sussex College > > CB2 3HU > > > > ced44 at cam.ac.uk > > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From micc2 at COX.NET Fri Aug 19 20:57:39 2005 From: micc2 at COX.NET (micc2) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 13:57:39 -0700 Subject: Ixtle -sisal-henequin? Message-ID: Piali compaleh huan comali I am looking for the roots of the word "ixtle" My father uses it for "sisal" or "henequin" But the only word that is near to this spelling is "ixtli" for face or surface. Any help? tlazcamati miyec! From Spoole541 at AOL.COM Fri Aug 19 21:30:45 2005 From: Spoole541 at AOL.COM (Stafford Poole) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 17:30:45 EDT Subject: Ixtle -sisal-henequin? Message-ID: The only word I can think of is ichtli, meaning the thread spun from the maguey fiber. The confusion of x and ch was not uncommon in older documents and the pronunciations are close. Stafford Poole Independent scholar From dfrye at UMICH.EDU Fri Aug 19 22:28:20 2005 From: dfrye at UMICH.EDU (Frye, David) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 18:28:20 -0400 Subject: Ixtle -sisal-henequin? Message-ID: That must be it. Frances Karttunen's dictionary has i:ch-tli, thread made from maguey fiber (which is what sisal or henequen is, you know). Santamaria's Diccionario de Mejicanismos has: Ixtle (Del azt. ixtli). m. Nombre generico, aztequismo que se ha hecho de uso universal para llamar toda clase de fibras vegetales. 2. Nombre que se aplica al genero vegetal de los Agaves y a las plantas que lo forman y que producen fibra, caracteristicas de Mejico, en numerosisimas especies que tienen varios nombres peculiares y regionales. 3. Por extension y en terminos de charreria, la reata de lazar, el peal, la lechuguilla, y esto por donaire. (Santamaria, you should know, was no nahuatlato.) I recall that in San Luis Potosi the word ixtle was used for the fiber/ropes made from the lechuguilla, a maguey-like plant but a lot tinier than your average maguey. David Frye Dependent scholar ________________________________ From: Nahua language and culture discussion on behalf of Stafford Poole Sent: Fri 8/19/2005 5:30 PM To: NAHUAT-L at LISTS.UMN.EDU Subject: Re: Ixtle -sisal-henequin? The only word I can think of is ichtli, meaning the thread spun from the maguey fiber. The confusion of x and ch was not uncommon in older documents and the pronunciations are close. Stafford Poole Independent scholar -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From idiez at MAC.COM Fri Aug 19 23:47:07 2005 From: idiez at MAC.COM (idiez at MAC.COM) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 18:47:07 -0500 Subject: Ixtle -sisal-henequin? In-Reply-To: <7294219083B51445BE4F7D2742F0A89110D632@ECLUST1-VS2.adsroot.itcs.umich.edu> Message-ID: "ichtli" is the maguey fiber used to make ropes ("mecatl") in the Huasteca. "cuaichtli" is a an older person with white hair. "nocuaichhui", "my white hair" John Sullivan Teicneltzin tlen zan tlamachtihtinemi canahya On Aug 19, 2005, at 5:28 PM, Frye, David wrote: > That must be it. Frances Karttunen's dictionary has i:ch-tli, thread > made from maguey fiber (which is what sisal or henequen is, you know). >   > Santamaria's Diccionario de Mejicanismos has: >   > Ixtle (Del azt. ixtli). m. Nombre generico, aztequismo que se ha hecho > de uso universal para llamar toda clase de fibras vegetales. 2. Nombre > que se aplica al genero vegetal de los Agaves y a las plantas que lo > forman y que producen fibra, caracteristicas de Mejico, en > numerosisimas especies que tienen varios nombres peculiares y > regionales. 3. Por extension y en terminos de charreria, la reata de > lazar, el peal, la lechuguilla, y esto por donaire. >   > (Santamaria, you should know, was no nahuatlato.) >   > I recall that in San Luis Potosi the word ixtle was used for the > fiber/ropes made from the lechuguilla, a maguey-like plant but a lot > tinier than your average maguey. >   >   > David Frye > Dependent scholar > > From: Nahua language and culture discussion on behalf of Stafford Poole > Sent: Fri 8/19/2005 5:30 PM > To: NAHUAT-L at LISTS.UMN.EDU > Subject: Re: Ixtle -sisal-henequin? > > > The only word I can think of is ichtli, meaning the thread spun from > the > maguey fiber.  The confusion of x and ch was not uncommon in older > documents and > the pronunciations are close. > > Stafford Poole > Independent scholar > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 2829 bytes Desc: not available URL: From micc2 at COX.NET Sat Aug 20 15:36:38 2005 From: micc2 at COX.NET (micc2) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2005 08:36:38 -0700 Subject: Ixtle -sisal-henequin? In-Reply-To: <39e7f75d6fe411b0f570a951b14dd762@mac.com> Message-ID: Thanks to all the scholars who responded!!!! mario e. aguilar wannabe scholar idiez at MAC.COM wrote: > "ichtli" is the maguey fiber used to make ropes ("mecatl") in the > Huasteca. > "cuaichtli" is a an older person with white hair. > "nocuaichhui", "my white hair" > > John Sullivan > Teicneltzin tlen zan tlamachtihtinemi canahya > > On Aug 19, 2005, at 5:28 PM, Frye, David wrote: > > That must be it. Frances Karttunen's dictionary has i:ch-tli, > thread made from maguey fiber (which is what sisal or henequen is, > you know). > > Santamaria's Diccionario de Mejicanismos has: > > *Ixtle* (Del azt. /ixtli/). m. Nombre generico, aztequismo que se > ha hecho de uso universal para llamar toda clase de fibras > vegetales. 2. Nombre que se aplica al genero vegetal de los > /Agaves/ y a las plantas que lo forman y que producen fibra, > caracteristicas de Mejico, en numerosisimas especies que tienen > varios nombres peculiares y regionales. 3. Por extension y en > terminos de charreria, la reata de lazar, el peal, la lechuguilla, > y esto por donaire. > > (Santamaria, you should know, was no nahuatlato.) > > I recall that in San Luis Potosi the word ixtle was used for the > fiber/ropes made from the lechuguilla, a maguey-like plant but a > lot tinier than your average maguey. > > > David Frye > Dependent scholar > > *From:* Nahua language and culture discussion on behalf of > Stafford Poole > *Sent:* Fri 8/19/2005 5:30 PM > *To:* NAHUAT-L at LISTS.UMN.EDU > *Subject:* Re: Ixtle -sisal-henequin? > > > The only word I can think of is ichtli, meaning the thread spun > from the > maguey fiber. The confusion of x and ch was not uncommon in older > documents and > the pronunciations are close. > > Stafford Poole > Independent scholar > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From micc2 at COX.NET Sun Aug 21 06:06:23 2005 From: micc2 at COX.NET (micc2) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2005 23:06:23 -0700 Subject: new Molina printing In-Reply-To: <039601c59695$2e9a6110$f2140d54@Caroline> Message-ID: I just ordered 6 copies of the dictionary. I ordered them on Aug. 11, and they arrived at my home on Aug. 19! The shipping (via DHL) was on the steep side, but fast: but at least I have copies for my family and myself! I was told: Recibimos sus pedidos donde solicita "Vocabulario en lengua castellana y mexicana". Los dos libros que seleccionó son el mismo pero de diferentes años de edición, de las cuales la más actual es la única que tenemos en existencia y es la que se enviaría. So although they list the two as separate printings only the 2004 has be reprinted. Since my own copy dates from my original Nahuatl classes with Jeff Burnham in 1981, It was great to finally have a copy that has a cover that still covers the book!!! Caroline Dodds wrote: > Dear Walter, > > I bought a copy of the fourth (2001) edition of the Molina (which was > also very clear, I have to say) about two years ago from the Porrua > website. Their website is certainly rather recalcitrant, but after a > few tries through different kinds of search today, the Molina > eventually turned up. You can find both the 2001 and the 2004 edition > at the following two addresses: > http://201.134.180.83/Libro/Libro.aspx?CB=9789700747446 > http://201.134.180.83/Libro/Libro.aspx?CB=9789700727394 > > Hope that's helpful. > Yours, > Caroline > ----- > Dr. Caroline Dodds > Junior Research Fellow > Sidney Sussex College > CB2 3HU > > ced44 at cam.ac.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From micc2 at COX.NET Sun Aug 21 08:06:24 2005 From: micc2 at COX.NET (micc2) Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2005 01:06:24 -0700 Subject: Quenqueh quihtoa Teotlac/tiotlac?? In-Reply-To: <43074E06.3080106@cox.net> Message-ID: Ceyoc tlahtlanilli: re: The word Teotlac in classic Nahuatl, and Tiotlac in Chicontepec Nahuatl teo = god, divine, super... ( as in sun) what does the TLAC signify? my guess: it has to do with the sun descending? Tlazcamati miyec! micc2 wrote: > Thanks to all the scholars who responded!!!! > > > > > > > > mario e. aguilar > wannabe scholar > > > > > > idiez at MAC.COM wrote: > >> "ichtli" is the maguey fiber used to make ropes ("mecatl") in the >> Huasteca. >> "cuaichtli" is a an older person with white hair. >> "nocuaichhui", "my white hair" >> >> John Sullivan >> Teicneltzin tlen zan tlamachtihtinemi canahya >> >> On Aug 19, 2005, at 5:28 PM, Frye, David wrote: >> >> That must be it. Frances Karttunen's dictionary has i:ch-tli, >> thread made from maguey fiber (which is what sisal or henequen >> is, you know). >> >> Santamaria's Diccionario de Mejicanismos has: >> >> *Ixtle* (Del azt. /ixtli/). m. Nombre generico, aztequismo que se >> ha hecho de uso universal para llamar toda clase de fibras >> vegetales. 2. Nombre que se aplica al genero vegetal de los >> /Agaves/ y a las plantas que lo forman y que producen fibra, >> caracteristicas de Mejico, en numerosisimas especies que tienen >> varios nombres peculiares y regionales. 3. Por extension y en >> terminos de charreria, la reata de lazar, el peal, la >> lechuguilla, y esto por donaire. >> >> (Santamaria, you should know, was no nahuatlato.) >> >> I recall that in San Luis Potosi the word ixtle was used for the >> fiber/ropes made from the lechuguilla, a maguey-like plant but a >> lot tinier than your average maguey. >> >> >> David Frye >> Dependent scholar >> >> *From:* Nahua language and culture discussion on behalf of >> Stafford Poole >> *Sent:* Fri 8/19/2005 5:30 PM >> *To:* NAHUAT-L at LISTS.UMN.EDU >> *Subject:* Re: Ixtle -sisal-henequin? >> >> >> The only word I can think of is ichtli, meaning the thread spun >> from the >> maguey fiber. The confusion of x and ch was not uncommon in >> older documents and >> the pronunciations are close. >> >> Stafford Poole >> Independent scholar >> >> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From micc2 at COX.NET Tue Aug 23 04:15:31 2005 From: micc2 at COX.NET (micc2) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 21:15:31 -0700 Subject: Ixtle -sisal-henequin? In-Reply-To: <39e7f75d6fe411b0f570a951b14dd762@mac.com> Message-ID: How was Bogota? > Teicneltzin tlen zan *alguien probre Que Solo??* > tlamachtihtinemi canahya *handa enseñando por hay/alguba parte???* > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rcrapo at HASS.USU.EDU Tue Aug 23 15:28:16 2005 From: rcrapo at HASS.USU.EDU (Richley) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2005 09:28:16 -0600 Subject: Help on citation Message-ID: I wonder if there is anyone on the list who has a copy of Diego MuZoz Camargo's Historia de Tlaxcala who would be willing to help me find the page(s) on which the following quotation occurs. I'm finishing the final corrections of the proof pages for a publication, it is missing from my notes, and our university library is being moved, so I don't have access to the book when I most urgently need it. The quote refers to the war when the Teochichimecs were driven out of the Valley of Mexico (and then migrated to Tlaxcala). Here's the quote: "Habiendo puesto los chichimecas esta supersticin por obra, los sacerdotes del templo, y el mayor de ellos, que le llamaban Achcauhtli teopixque tlamacazcuachcauhtli, comenza[ron] a orar e incesar con grandes perfumes ante el tabernculo de Camaxtli, y all donde estaba el vaso de leche que haba destilado de la mujer doncella, comenzando desde la maana, a medio da, a puestas del sol y a media noche, incesaban y perfumaban. Lo cual se hizo tres das arreo y siempre mirando en el vaso de las saetas [por si] se obraba algo en ello. No van que hacan ningn efecto sus hechiceras, antes la gota de leche estaba ya casi seca y marchita y encogida. Habindose de dar el combate [al] otro da, estando los chichimecas muy acongojados." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From susana at LOSRANCHEROS.ORG Wed Aug 24 11:09:35 2005 From: susana at LOSRANCHEROS.ORG (Susana Moraleda) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 13:09:35 +0200 Subject: Universidad Nahuatl Message-ID: Hola, Por favor quisiera saber si alguno de ustedes ha asistido a las clases que se imparten en la Universidad Nahuatl en Cuernavaca. Si pudieran compartir sus impresiones conmigo se los agradeceria, ya que estoy considerando la posibilidad de tomar algun curso alli. Escribi a la senora Martha Ramirez, pero no me contesta. Quisiera saber fechas de los cursos, costo, etc. En otras palabras, es algo serio? o es solo para curiosos extranjeros? vale la pena? Gracias. Susana Moraleda From lemoni1 at YAHOO.COM Thu Aug 25 10:22:55 2005 From: lemoni1 at YAHOO.COM (Corrinne Burns) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 11:22:55 +0100 Subject: Fwd: Re: Looking for references to Tagetes in old Mexican manuscripts Message-ID: Not sure whether this will be of interest, but the helpful people at London's Kew Gardens directed me to this online version of Francisco Hernandez' 1651 guide to Mexican herbs. The names are given in Nahuatl and Latin. Corrinne http://alfama.sim.ucm.es/dioscorides/consulta_libro.asp?ref=X533816776&idioma=0 > > > > > > Yours, > > Craig Brough > > Enquiries Librarian > > Library & Archives > > Royal Botanic Gardens, Kew > > Richmond > > Surrey TW9 3AE > > UK > > 020 8332 5421 Phone > > 020 8332 5430 Fax > > C.Brough at rbgkew.org.uk > > http://www.kew.org/library/index.html > > Sponsor a book to celebrate or commemorate. Click > > here > > http://www.kew.org/friends/FrLegacy.pdf > > > > > > > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > > How much free photo storage do you get? Store your > holiday > snaps for FREE with Yahoo! Photos > http://uk.photos.yahoo.com > ___________________________________________________________ To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com From idiez at MAC.COM Wed Aug 31 00:39:13 2005 From: idiez at MAC.COM (idiez at MAC.COM) Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 19:39:13 -0500 Subject: vetative in modern nahuatl Message-ID: I think I'm seeing the vetative in Huastecan Nahuatl. It looks a lot like an incomplete imperative phrase, but maybe that's what the vetative is in the first place. Note that there is one formula for first and third persons, and another for second person. 1. ma mitzittayoc tlamachtihquetl = no más que te vea el maestro. Perhaps this is like: "Que te vea el maestro (imperative)...[y verás]." 2. zan xiquilhuiyoc tlamachtihquetl = no más que le digas al maestro. Perhaps: "Sólo dile al maestro (imperativo)....[y verás]." Two more examples: 3. zan ximoquetzacanyoc = no más que se paren ustedes. 4. ma quitlahtlanilicanyoc = no más que le pregunten ellos. John Sullivan, Ph.D. Profesor de lengua y cultura nahua Unidad Académica de Idiomas Universidad Autónoma de Zacatecas Director Instituto de Docencia e Investigación Etnológica de Zacatecas, A.C. Tacuba 152, int. 47 Centro Histórico Zacatecas, Zac. 98000 México Oficina: +52 (492) 925-3415 Fax: +52 (492) 925-3416 Domicilio: +52 (492) 768-6048 Celular: +52 (492) 544-5985 idiez at mac.com www.idiez.org.mx From ced44 at CAM.AC.UK Mon Aug 1 12:33:12 2005 From: ced44 at CAM.AC.UK (Caroline Dodds) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2005 13:33:12 +0100 Subject: new Molina printing Message-ID: Dear Walter, I bought a copy of the fourth (2001) edition of the Molina (which was also very clear, I have to say) about two years ago from the Porrua website. Their website is certainly rather recalcitrant, but after a few tries through different kinds of search today, the Molina eventually turned up. You can find both the 2001 and the 2004 edition at the following two addresses: http://201.134.180.83/Libro/Libro.aspx?CB=9789700747446 http://201.134.180.83/Libro/Libro.aspx?CB=9789700727394 Hope that's helpful. Yours, Caroline ----- Dr. Caroline Dodds Junior Research Fellow Sidney Sussex College CB2 3HU ced44 at cam.ac.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From igr at STANFORD.EDU Mon Aug 1 13:06:14 2005 From: igr at STANFORD.EDU (Ian Robertson) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2005 08:06:14 -0500 Subject: new Molina printing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hello Walter, Caroline Dodds has kindly supplied relevant links for the Porrua website. As for the facsimile version of Molina--I don't have the reference, but I do hope to be in Mexico City again in a couple of weeks or so. If no one has posted the reference/publishing info before that time, I will see if I can get it for you. Best, Ian Walter Koenig wrote: > Ian, > > Do you have anymore information on the Molina re-printing? How many > were printed? I have tried repeatedly to get into Editoral Porrua's > web-site even before your announcement, but all I get is > their Cargando.... message. > > Also do you have any more information about the facsimile of the > Vocabulario? I am very interested in that as well. > > Many thanks. > > Best Wishes, > > Walter O. Koenig > > > On Jul 24, 2005, at 5:53 AM, Ian Robertson wrote: > >> If I remember correctly, the last time I heard some discussion of >> Molina's Vocabulario on Nahuat-l, it was described as out-of-print. >> Yesterday I was pleased to find recently printed (2004) copies of >> this dictionary for sale in the Madero bookstore in Mexico City. This >> 5th edition has a new, bright cover, and the numerous blurry pages >> that plague my old copy don't seem to have been reproduced. I >> couldn't get on Porrua's website this morning, but I assume that >> copies can be ordered there. >> >> I was also shown a wonderful facsimile of the Vocabulario, part of a >> very small run recently printed in Spain. The price (1800 pesos) >> seemed pretty cheap given the quality and beauty of the work. I was >> able to escape without buying it, but it was a close call... >> >> Best, >> >> Ian Robertson >> >> -- >> Ian G. Robertson >> Assistant Professor >> Department of Anthropological Sciences >> Building 360, 450 Serra Mall >> Stanford University >> Stanford, CA 94305-2117 >> >> p: 650-724-4994 [2579988] > >> f: 650-725-9996 >> e: igr at stanford.edu >> > From schwallr at morris.umn.edu Mon Aug 1 13:36:56 2005 From: schwallr at morris.umn.edu (John F. Schwaller) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2005 08:36:56 -0500 Subject: new Molina printing In-Reply-To: <42EE1E46.7010202@stanford.edu> Message-ID: At 08:06 AM 8/1/2005, you wrote: >Caroline Dodds has kindly supplied relevant links for the Porrua >website. As for the facsimile version of Molina--I don't have the >reference, but I do hope to be in Mexico City again in a couple of >weeks or so. If no one has posted the reference/publishing info >before that time, I will see if I can get it for you. To be perfectly honest, the Porrua edition has traditionally been a facsimile edition. I have never seen a version of Molina in a modern typeface, other than the one Joe Campbell printed off the computer from his database. John F. Schwaller Vice Chancellor for Academic Affairs and Dean 315 Behmler Hall University of Minnesota, Morris 600 E 4th Street Morris, MN 56267 320-589-6015 FAX 320-589-6399 schwallr at morris.umn.edu From takaio at PO.AIANET.NE.JP Mon Aug 1 15:09:16 2005 From: takaio at PO.AIANET.NE.JP (Yukitaka Inoue Okubo) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2005 00:09:16 +0900 Subject: new Molina printing Message-ID: Hello, Some information about the facsimil edition which was printed in Spain: Fray Alonso de Molina, Vocabulario en lengua castellana y mexicana, Estudio de Esther Hernandez, Ediciones de Cultura Hispanica, Agencia Espanyola de Cooperacion Internacional, Madrid, 2001. ISBN (Obra completa) 84-7232-869-4; (Facsimil) 84-7232-870-8; (Estudio) 84-7232-871-6 It is the facsimil edition of 1571 (as well as that of Porrua), and was taken from the copy that is in the Biblioteca Nacional de Espanya. The last page of the facsimil says: "Edicion facsimilar de 1.000 ejemplares numerados". This may be the edition that was in Madero bookstore, although it costed me less when I bought it few years ago in a Spanish bookstore (but I don't remember exactly the price). Yukitaka ----------------------------------- Mtro. Yukitaka INOUE OKUBO Universidad de Ritsumeikan (Kioto, Japon) ----------------------------------- > Hello Walter, > > Caroline Dodds has kindly supplied relevant links for the Porrua website. > As for the facsimile version of Molina--I don't have the reference, but I > do hope to be in Mexico City again in a couple of weeks or so. If no one > has posted the reference/publishing info before that time, I will see if I > can get it for you. > > Best, Ian > > Walter Koenig wrote: > >> Ian, >> >> Do you have anymore information on the Molina re-printing? How many were >> printed? I have tried repeatedly to get into Editoral Porrua's web-site >> even before your announcement, but all I get is their Cargando.... >> message. >> Also do you have any more information about the facsimile of the >> Vocabulario? I am very interested in that as well. >> >> Many thanks. >> >> Best Wishes, >> >> Walter O. Koenig >> >> >> On Jul 24, 2005, at 5:53 AM, Ian Robertson wrote: >> >>> If I remember correctly, the last time I heard some discussion of >>> Molina's Vocabulario on Nahuat-l, it was described as out-of-print. >>> Yesterday I was pleased to find recently printed (2004) copies of this >>> dictionary for sale in the Madero bookstore in Mexico City. This 5th >>> edition has a new, bright cover, and the numerous blurry pages that >>> plague my old copy don't seem to have been reproduced. I couldn't get on >>> Porrua's website this morning, but I assume that copies can be ordered >>> there. >>> >>> I was also shown a wonderful facsimile of the Vocabulario, part of a >>> very small run recently printed in Spain. The price (1800 pesos) seemed >>> pretty cheap given the quality and beauty of the work. I was able to >>> escape without buying it, but it was a close call... >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Ian Robertson >>> >>> -- >>> Ian G. Robertson >>> Assistant Professor >>> Department of Anthropological Sciences >>> Building 360, 450 Serra Mall >>> Stanford University >>> Stanford, CA 94305-2117 >>> >>> p: 650-724-4994 [2579988] >> >>> f: 650-725-9996 >>> e: igr at stanford.edu >>> >> > > From ced44 at CAM.AC.UK Mon Aug 1 15:20:24 2005 From: ced44 at CAM.AC.UK (Caroline Dodds) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2005 16:20:24 +0100 Subject: Obras Cl=?iso-8859-1?Q?=E1sicas_sobre_la_Lengua_N=E1huatl?= Message-ID: Prompted by the recent discussions about the Molina reprint, I have remembered that someone on the list a while ago mentioned a very useful CD published by Digibis of facsimile Nahuatl documents called 'Obras Cl?sicas sobre la Lengua N?huatl. At the time that it was mentioned, I think that someone said it was no longer available, and I wanted to let list members know that it is still available to purchase. It is available direct from Digibis, but I obtained a copy via Libreria Ledi (who, unlike Digibis, will accept payment details via email). It is on their website at http://www.internationalbookseller.com/Inglese/digibis%202.htm as part of the Colecci?n Cl?sicos Tavera series. Although it is not cheap (180 euros), it has a large number of texts, including work by Aldama y Guevara, Ixtlilxochitl, Bautista, Carochi, Icazbalceta, Molina, Olmos and Sahagun amongst others, and so I thought that list members might like to know that it is still available. A full list of the contents is online here: http://www.mapfre.com/fundaciones/es/FundacionMapfreTavera/publicaciones/pu_clasicos/pucla_serie9_ca8/pucla_nahuatl_li1.shtml?idm=0900ab37810a7e94&seccion=publicaciones/pu_clasicos&ruta=Publicaciones|Biblioteca%20Digital%20Cl$asicos%20Tavera&titulo2=Serie%20IX.%20Fuentes%20ling?$isticas%20ind$igenas&categoria=Serie%20IX.%20Fuentes%20ling?$isticas%20ind$igenas Apologies if I am treading old ground and others already know about this, and also for sounding so much like an advert. (I can promise I have no financial interest!) I thought that it might be helpful to some to know that the CD was available. Best wishes, Caroline ----- Dr. Caroline Dodds Junior Research Fellow Sidney Sussex College CB2 3HU ced44 at cam.ac.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From schwallr at morris.umn.edu Mon Aug 1 15:44:39 2005 From: schwallr at morris.umn.edu (John F. Schwaller) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2005 10:44:39 -0500 Subject: Obras Cl=?iso-8859-1?Q?=E1sicas_sobre_la_Lengua__N=E1huatl?= In-Reply-To: <03d601c596ac$8a706450$f2140d54@Caroline> Message-ID: At 10:20 AM 8/1/2005, you wrote: >Prompted by the recent discussions about the >Molina reprint, I have remembered that someone >on the list a while ago mentioned a very useful >CD published by Digibis of facsimile Nahuatl >documents called 'Obras Cl?sicas sobre la Lengua >N?huatl. At the time that it was mentioned, I >think that someone said it was no longer >available, and I wanted to let list members know >that it is still available to purchase. It is >available direct from Digibis, but I obtained a >copy via Libreria Ledi (who, unlike Digibis, >will accept payment details via email). It is on >their website at >http://www.internationalbookseller.com/Inglese/digibis%202.htm >as part of the Colecci?n Cl?sicos Tavera series. This is interesting. Miguel Leon Portilla, who edited the CD, told me about 18months ago that it was out of print. Perhaps they made some additional copies. I use it with great frequency and would recommend it to anyone who needs access to early Nahuatl imprints. John F. Schwaller Vice Chancellor for Academic Affairs and Dean 315 Behmler Hall University of Minnesota, Morris 600 E 4th Street Morris, MN 56267 320-589-6015 FAX 320-589-6399 schwallr at morris.umn.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ced44 at CAM.AC.UK Mon Aug 1 15:54:43 2005 From: ced44 at CAM.AC.UK (Caroline Dodds) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2005 16:54:43 +0100 Subject: Obras Cl=?iso-8859-1?Q?=E1sicas_sobre_la_Lengua__N=E1huatl?= Message-ID: Just to clarify, in case people were unsure of dates in light of John Schwaller's comment that Miguel Leon-Portilla had said 18 months ago that this was out of print, I bought this CD only last month. Although I may just have been lucky, there was nothing on either website to suggest it was out of print so hopefully Digibis have decided to keep this useful resource available. Caroline ----- Dr. Caroline Dodds Junior Research Fellow Sidney Sussex College CB2 3HU ced44 at cam.ac.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: John F. Schwaller To: NAHUAT-L at LISTS.UMN.EDU Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 4:44 PM Subject: Re: Obras Cl?sicas sobre la Lengua N?huatl At 10:20 AM 8/1/2005, you wrote: Prompted by the recent discussions about the Molina reprint, I have remembered that someone on the list a while ago mentioned a very useful CD published by Digibis of facsimile Nahuatl documents called 'Obras Cl?sicas sobre la Lengua N?huatl. At the time that it was mentioned, I think that someone said it was no longer available, and I wanted to let list members know that it is still available to purchase. It is available direct from Digibis, but I obtained a copy via Libreria Ledi (who, unlike Digibis, will accept payment details via email). It is on their website at http://www.internationalbookseller.com/Inglese/digibis%202.htm as part of the Colecci?n Cl?sicos Tavera series. This is interesting. Miguel Leon Portilla, who edited the CD, told me about 18months ago that it was out of print. Perhaps they made some additional copies. I use it with great frequency and would recommend it to anyone who needs access to early Nahuatl imprints. John F. Schwaller Vice Chancellor for Academic Affairs and Dean 315 Behmler Hall University of Minnesota, Morris 600 E 4th Street Morris, MN 56267 320-589-6015 FAX 320-589-6399 schwallr at morris.umn.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From campbel at INDIANA.EDU Mon Aug 1 16:45:42 2005 From: campbel at INDIANA.EDU (R. Joe Campbell) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2005 11:45:42 -0500 Subject: Obras Cl=?iso-8859-1?Q?=E1sicas_sobre_la_Lengua__N=E1huatl?= In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20050801104329.03d45318@schwallr.email.umn.edu> Message-ID: I was just getting ready to say what a joy the Digibis CD is to use. I have been using it since 2000, mainly for easy reference to Molina 1555. According to my memory, as well as e-mails from Digibis, the compiler of the CD is Ascension Hernandez de Leon-Portilla, rather than Miguel Leon-Portilla. |8-) Joe From ced44 at CAM.AC.UK Mon Aug 1 16:48:27 2005 From: ced44 at CAM.AC.UK (Caroline Dodds) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2005 17:48:27 +0100 Subject: Obras Cl=?iso-8859-1?Q?=E1sicas_sobre_la_Lengua__N=E1huatl?= Message-ID: Oops, yes, of course you are right! Apologies to both Portillas and to anyone I may have confused. Caroline ----- Dr. Caroline Dodds Junior Research Fellow Sidney Sussex College CB2 3HU ced44 at cam.ac.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: "R. Joe Campbell" To: Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 5:45 PM Subject: Re: Obras Cl?sicas sobre la Lengua N?huatl > I was just getting ready to say what a joy the Digibis CD is to use. > I have been using it since 2000, mainly for easy reference to Molina 1555. > > According to my memory, as well as e-mails from Digibis, the compiler > of the CD is Ascension Hernandez de Leon-Portilla, rather than Miguel > Leon-Portilla. |8-) > > Joe From campbel at INDIANA.EDU Tue Aug 2 20:32:44 2005 From: campbel at INDIANA.EDU (R. Joe Campbell) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2005 15:32:44 -0500 Subject: new Molina printing In-Reply-To: <000a01c596aa$fc17ebc0$020ba8c0@sotec6y0gtxrq9> Message-ID: Regarding the use of the word "facsimile" (and related forms), I have a problem. My problem particularly relates to the Porrua edition of Molina, which I believe does not qualify as a facsimile edition, since it is, in fact, a facsimile edition of the Platzmann 1880 Molina, although neither the type-face nor the pages are the same size. That is the location of the weak link; Platzmann is *not* a facsimile of the 1571 Molina. It does not contain literal images of the folios of the 1571 publication, as do the 1944 Ediciones Cultura Hispanica volume and the 2001 volume edited by Esther Hernandez. Rather, type was re-set in 1880, leaving the way open for the introduction of new errors, something which is impossible in a true facsimile edition. The way being open, many errors were in fact introduced, some of the popular ones being substitution of 'v' (or 'u') for 'n' and vice versa, as well as mis-readings between 'y' and 'v'. What all of these editions do share is the original spelling, including "tall s", c-cedilla, and vowel abbreviations. However, the type-font of Platzmann is not the type-font of the original. And the wavy lines of type of the 1571 edition are certainly missing in Platzmann!! Maria Moliner's definition of "facsi'mil" or "facsi'mile": "Copia o reproduccio'n exacta de un libro, un impreso, un dibujo, una firma, etc." If there was an older, looser, and no longer current use of "facsimile", I would be interested in knowing about it. Joe > > Some information about the facsimil edition which was printed in Spain: > > Fray Alonso de Molina, Vocabulario en lengua castellana y mexicana, Estudio > de Esther Hernandez, Ediciones de Cultura Hispanica, Agencia Espanyola de > Cooperacion Internacional, Madrid, 2001. > ISBN (Obra completa) 84-7232-869-4; (Facsimil) 84-7232-870-8; (Estudio) > 84-7232-871-6 > > It is the facsimil edition of 1571 (as well as that of Porrua), and was > taken from the copy that is in the Biblioteca Nacional de Espanya. The last > page of the facsimil says: "Edicion facsimilar de 1.000 ejemplares > numerados". > From ecultura at GMAIL.COM Wed Aug 3 14:27:19 2005 From: ecultura at GMAIL.COM (rosa quintero) Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2005 09:27:19 -0500 Subject: Obras Cl=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=E1sicas_sobre_la_Lengua_N=E1huatl?= In-Reply-To: <03d601c596ac$8a706450$f2140d54@Caroline> Message-ID: Muchas Gracias Caroline!! On 8/1/05, Caroline Dodds wrote: > Prompted by the recent discussions about the Molina reprint, I have > remembered that someone on the list a while ago mentioned a very useful CD > published by Digibis of facsimile Nahuatl documents called 'Obras Cl?sicas > sobre la Lengua N?huatl. At the time that it was mentioned, I think that > someone said it was no longer available, and I wanted to let list members > know that it is still available to purchase. It is available direct from > Digibis, but I obtained a copy via Libreria Ledi (who, unlike Digibis, will > accept payment details via email). It is on their website at > http://www.internationalbookseller.com/Inglese/digibis%202.htm > as part of the Colecci?n Cl?sicos Tavera series. > > Although it is not cheap (180 euros), it has a large number of texts, > including work by Aldama y Guevara, Ixtlilxochitl, Bautista, Carochi, > Icazbalceta, Molina, Olmos and Sahagun amongst others, and so I thought that > list members might like to know that it is still available. A full list of > the contents is online here: > http://www.mapfre.com/fundaciones/es/FundacionMapfreTavera/publicaciones/pu_clasicos/pucla_serie9_ca8/pucla_nahuatl_li1.shtml?idm=0900ab37810a7e94&seccion=publicaciones/pu_clasicos&ruta=Publicaciones|Biblioteca%20Digital%20Cl$asicos%20Tavera&titulo2=Serie%20IX.%20Fuentes%20ling?$isticas%20ind$igenas&categoria=Serie%20IX.%20Fuentes%20ling?$isticas%20ind$igenas > > Apologies if I am treading old ground and others already know about this, > and also for sounding so much like an advert. (I can promise I have no > financial interest!) I thought that it might be helpful to some to know that > the CD was available. > > Best wishes, > Caroline > ----- > Dr. Caroline Dodds > Junior Research Fellow > Sidney Sussex College > CB2 3HU > > ced44 at cam.ac.uk > From campbel at INDIANA.EDU Wed Aug 3 16:11:06 2005 From: campbel at INDIANA.EDU (campbel at INDIANA.EDU) Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2005 11:11:06 -0500 Subject: Obras Cl=?iso-8859-1?Q?=E1sicas_sobre_la_Lengua_N=E1huatl?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Inspired by Caroline's prodding of my memory, I dug out the Digibis listing of their CD offerings. If I said it was a treasure (which it is), it wouldn't be hyperbole... but I won't say that -- I'll leave it for others to say. Joe ALDAMA y GUEVARA, Jose Agustin (1754): Arte de la lengua mexicana. Mexico. Imprenta de la Lengua mexicana. ALVA, Bartolome de (1634): Confessionario mayor y menor de la lengua mexicana: y platicas contra las supersticiones de idolatria... Mexico. Francisco Salbago. AQUINO CORTeS Y CEDEnnO, Geronymo Thomas de (1765): Arte, vocabulario y confessionario en el idioma mexicano: como se usa el en Obispado de Guadalajara. Puebla de los angeles (Mexico). Imprenta del Colegio Real de San Ignacio de Puebla de los angeles. ARENAS, Pedro de (1611): Vocabulario manual de las lenguas castellana y mexicana. Mexico. Henrico Martinez. BAUTISTA, (Fray) Juan (1600): Advertencias para los confessores de los naturales... (2 volumenes). Tlatilulco - Convento de Santiago de Tlatilulco. M. Ocharte. BAUTISTA, (Fray) Juan (1600): Huehuetlahtolli: que contiene las platicas... Tlatilulco. Convento de Santiago de Tlatilulco. BAUTISTA, (Fray) Juan (1606): A Iesu Christo S.N. ofrece este sermonario en lengua mexicana. Mexico. Casa de Diego Lopez Davalos. CARCHI, Horacio (1645): Arte de la lengua mexicana con la declaracion de los adverbios della. Mexico. Juan Ruyz. Doctrina christiana en lengua espannola y mexicana: hecha por los religiosos de la Orden de Santiago (1548). Mexico. Casa de Juan Pablos. GALDO GUZMaN, (Fray) Diego de (1642): Arte mexicano. Mexico. Viuda de Bernardo Calderon. GANTE, (Fray) Pedro (1553): Doctrina Christiana en lengua mexicana. Mexico. Casa de Juan Pablos. GAONA, (Fray) Juan de (1582): Colloquios de la paz y tranquilidad christiana, en lengua mexicana. Mexico. Casa de Juan Plablos. GARCiA ICAZBALCETA, Joaquin (1889): Nueva coleccion de documentos para la historia de Mexico (2 volumenes). Mexico. Antigua Libreria de Andrade y Morales, Sucesores, Tomo I (Codice Franciscano, siglo XVI). GUERRA, (Fray) Juan (1692): Arte de la lengua mexicana: que fue usual entre los indios del Obispado de Guadalajara y de parte de los de Durango y Michoacan. Guadalajara. Viuda de Francisco Rodriguez Lupericio. GUERRA, (Fray) Juan (1900): Arte de la lengua mexicana: que fue usual entre los indios del Obispado de Guadalajara y de parte de los de Durango y Michoacan. Guadalajara. Alberto Santoscoy. LASSO DE LA VEGA, Luis (1649): Huei tlamahvizoltica omonexiti in Ilhuicac Tlatoca Cichuapilli... Mexico. Imprenta Iuan Ruyz. LEoN, (Fray) Martin de (1611): Camino del cielo en lengua mexicana... Mexico. Imprenta de Diego Lopez Davalos. MIJANGOS, Fray Juan de (1607): Espejo divino en lengua mexicana en que pueden verse los Padres y tomar documento para acercar a adoptrinar bien a sus hijos, y aficionallos a las virtudes. Mexico. Imprenta de Diego Lopez Davalos. MOLINA, (Fray) Alonso de (1555): Aqui comienza un vocubalario en la lengua castellana y mexicana. Mexico. Casa de Juan Pablos. MOLINA, (Fray) Alonso de (1565): Confessionario breve en lengua mexicana y castellana. Mexico. Casa de Antonio de Spinosa. MOLINA, (Fray) Alonso de (1565): Confessionario Mayor en lengua mexicana y castellana. Mexico. Casa de Antonio de Spinosa. MOLINA, (Fray) Alonso de (1571): Arte de la lengua mexicana y castellana. Mexico. Casa de Pedro Ocharte. MOLINA, (Fray) Alonso de (1571): Vocabulario en lengua mexicana y castellana. Mexico. Casa de Antonio de Spinosa. OLMOS, (Fray) Ignacio de (1547): Arte de la lengua mexicana. [S.l.]. [S.n.]. PAREDES, Ignacio de (1759): Promptuario manual mexicano. Mexico. Imprenta de la Biblioteca Mexicana. PeREZ, (Fray) Manuel (1713): Arte del idioma mexicano. Mexico. Francisco Rivera Calderon. PeREZ, (Fray) Manuel (1713): Farol indiano y guia de curas de indios... Mexico. Francisco Rivera Calderon. RINCoN, Antonio del (1595): Arte mexicana. Casa de Pedro Balli. RIPALDA, Geronymo de (1758): Catecismo mexicano que contiene toda la doctrina christiana... Mexico. Imprenta de la Biblioteca Mexicana. SAAVEDRA, (Fray) Marcos de (1746): Confessionario breve activo y pasivo en lengua mexicana... Mexico. Imprenta Real del Superior Gobierno, del Nuevo Rezado, de Donna Maria de Rivera. SAENZ DE LA PEnnA, Andres (1642): Manual de los Santos Sacramentos...= Mexico. Francisco Robledo. SAHAGuN, (Fray) Bernardino de (1583): Psalmodia Christiana y Sermonario de los Sanctos del Anno, en lengua mexicana. Mexico. Con licencia en Casa de Pedro Ocharte. SANDOVAL, Rafael (1888): Arte de la lengua mexicana. Ramon Garcia Raya. TAPIA CENTENO, Carlos de (1753): Arte novissima de lengua mexicana... Mexico. Viuda de Joseph Bernardo de Hogal. VaZQUEZ GATELU, Antonio (1689): Arte de Lengua Mexicana. [S.l.]. Fernandez de Leon VETANCOURT, (Fray) Agustin (1673): Arte de lengua mexicana... Mexico. Francisco Rodriguez Lupericio. From jrabasa at CALMAIL.BERKELEY.EDU Wed Aug 3 16:42:48 2005 From: jrabasa at CALMAIL.BERKELEY.EDU (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Jos=E9_Rabasa?=) Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2005 09:42:48 -0700 Subject: Obras Cl=?iso-8859-1?Q?=E1sicas_sobre_la_Lengua_N=E1huatl?= In-Reply-To: <1123085466.42f0ec9a30730@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: Thanks, Joe, for providing the list of texts. The collection is indeed precious. Jose > Inspired by Caroline's prodding of my memory, I dug out the Digibis listing >of their CD offerings. If I said it was a treasure (which it is), it wouldn't >be hyperbole... but I won't say that -- I'll leave it for others to say. > >Joe > > >ALDAMA y GUEVARA, Jose Agustin (1754): Arte de la lengua mexicana. Mexico. >Imprenta de la Lengua mexicana. > >ALVA, Bartolome de (1634): Confessionario mayor y menor de la lengua >mexicana: y platicas contra las supersticiones de idolatria... Mexico. >Francisco Salbago. > >AQUINO CORTeS Y CEDEnnO, Geronymo Thomas de (1765): Arte, vocabulario y >confessionario en el idioma mexicano: como se usa el en Obispado de >Guadalajara. Puebla de los angeles (Mexico). Imprenta del Colegio Real de >San Ignacio de Puebla de los angeles. > >ARENAS, Pedro de (1611): Vocabulario manual de las lenguas castellana y >mexicana. Mexico. Henrico Martinez. > >BAUTISTA, (Fray) Juan (1600): Advertencias para los confessores de los >naturales... (2 volumenes). Tlatilulco - Convento de Santiago de Tlatilulco. >M. Ocharte. > >BAUTISTA, (Fray) Juan (1600): Huehuetlahtolli: que contiene las platicas... >Tlatilulco. Convento de Santiago de Tlatilulco. > >BAUTISTA, (Fray) Juan (1606): A Iesu Christo S.N. ofrece este sermonario en >lengua mexicana. Mexico. Casa de Diego Lopez Davalos. > >CARCHI, Horacio (1645): Arte de la lengua mexicana con la declaracion de los >adverbios della. Mexico. Juan Ruyz. > >Doctrina christiana en lengua espannola y mexicana: hecha por los religiosos >de la Orden de Santiago (1548). Mexico. Casa de Juan Pablos. > >GALDO GUZMaN, (Fray) Diego de (1642): Arte mexicano. Mexico. Viuda de >Bernardo Calderon. > >GANTE, (Fray) Pedro (1553): Doctrina Christiana en lengua mexicana. Mexico. >Casa de Juan Pablos. > >GAONA, (Fray) Juan de (1582): Colloquios de la paz y tranquilidad >christiana, en lengua mexicana. Mexico. Casa de Juan Plablos. > >GARCiA ICAZBALCETA, Joaquin (1889): Nueva coleccion de documentos para la >historia de Mexico (2 volumenes). Mexico. Antigua Libreria de Andrade y >Morales, Sucesores, Tomo I (Codice Franciscano, siglo XVI). > >GUERRA, (Fray) Juan (1692): Arte de la lengua mexicana: que fue usual entre >los indios del Obispado de Guadalajara y de parte de los de Durango y >Michoacan. Guadalajara. Viuda de Francisco Rodriguez Lupericio. > >GUERRA, (Fray) Juan (1900): Arte de la lengua mexicana: que fue usual entre >los indios del Obispado de Guadalajara y de parte de los de Durango y >Michoacan. Guadalajara. Alberto Santoscoy. > >LASSO DE LA VEGA, Luis (1649): Huei tlamahvizoltica omonexiti in Ilhuicac >Tlatoca Cichuapilli... Mexico. Imprenta Iuan Ruyz. > >LEoN, (Fray) Martin de (1611): Camino del cielo en lengua mexicana... >Mexico. Imprenta de Diego Lopez Davalos. > > >MIJANGOS, Fray Juan de (1607): Espejo divino en lengua mexicana en que >pueden verse los Padres y tomar documento para acercar a adoptrinar bien a >sus hijos, y aficionallos a las virtudes. Mexico. Imprenta de Diego Lopez >Davalos. > >MOLINA, (Fray) Alonso de (1555): Aqui comienza un vocubalario en la lengua >castellana y mexicana. Mexico. Casa de Juan Pablos. > >MOLINA, (Fray) Alonso de (1565): Confessionario breve en lengua mexicana y >castellana. Mexico. Casa de Antonio de Spinosa. > >MOLINA, (Fray) Alonso de (1565): Confessionario Mayor en lengua mexicana y >castellana. Mexico. Casa de Antonio de Spinosa. > >MOLINA, (Fray) Alonso de (1571): Arte de la lengua mexicana y castellana. >Mexico. Casa de Pedro Ocharte. > >MOLINA, (Fray) Alonso de (1571): Vocabulario en lengua mexicana y >castellana. Mexico. Casa de Antonio de Spinosa. > >OLMOS, (Fray) Ignacio de (1547): Arte de la lengua mexicana. [S.l.]. [S.n.]. > >PAREDES, Ignacio de (1759): Promptuario manual mexicano. Mexico. Imprenta de >la Biblioteca Mexicana. > >PeREZ, (Fray) Manuel (1713): Arte del idioma mexicano. Mexico. Francisco >Rivera Calderon. > >PeREZ, (Fray) Manuel (1713): Farol indiano y guia de curas de indios... >Mexico. Francisco Rivera Calderon. > >RINCoN, Antonio del (1595): Arte mexicana. Casa de Pedro Balli. > >RIPALDA, Geronymo de (1758): Catecismo mexicano que contiene toda la >doctrina christiana... Mexico. Imprenta de la Biblioteca Mexicana. > >SAAVEDRA, (Fray) Marcos de (1746): Confessionario breve activo y pasivo en >lengua mexicana... Mexico. Imprenta Real del Superior Gobierno, del Nuevo >Rezado, de Donna Maria de Rivera. > >SAENZ DE LA PEnnA, Andres (1642): Manual de los Santos Sacramentos...= > Mexico. >Francisco Robledo. > >SAHAGuN, (Fray) Bernardino de (1583): Psalmodia Christiana y Sermonario de >los Sanctos del Anno, en lengua mexicana. Mexico. Con licencia en Casa de >Pedro Ocharte. > >SANDOVAL, Rafael (1888): Arte de la lengua mexicana. Ramon Garcia Raya. > >TAPIA CENTENO, Carlos de (1753): Arte novissima de lengua mexicana... >Mexico. Viuda de Joseph Bernardo de Hogal. > >VaZQUEZ GATELU, Antonio (1689): Arte de Lengua Mexicana. [S.l.]. Fernandez >de Leon > >VETANCOURT, (Fray) Agustin (1673): Arte de lengua mexicana... Mexico. >Francisco Rodriguez Lupericio. From ced44 at CAM.AC.UK Mon Aug 8 16:55:44 2005 From: ced44 at CAM.AC.UK (Caroline Dodds) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2005 17:55:44 +0100 Subject: Image permissions/copyright Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, I am currently working on my first book for Palgrave (a development of my doctoral thesis about gender in Aztec culture) and I was hoping that those on the list with far greater experience might be prepared to offer some advice about copyright permissions. As is usual with these things, I am wrangling with the publisher about costs of permissions and who will pay them (mostly me!) and so have been investigating the best place to obtain some images. The cost of permissions vary tremendously between institutions and I was wondering if anyone could recommend any particularly good (and preferably affordable) sources of Aztec images. The pictures in the book will be black and white in-text images, not plates, and are mostly intended to illustrate the text and evoke the sense of the culture, rather than to be critical to the discussion, which gives me quite a lot of flexibility. Any advice or suggestions which you could offer would be much appreciated. Thank you all in advance. Yours, Caroline ----- Dr. Caroline Dodds Junior Research Fellow Sidney Sussex College CB2 3HU ced44 at cam.ac.uk From swood at DARKWING.UOREGON.EDU Mon Aug 8 17:18:29 2005 From: swood at DARKWING.UOREGON.EDU (Stephanie Wood) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2005 10:18:29 -0700 Subject: Image permissions/copyright In-Reply-To: <047201c59c3a$044e6550$fa1b0d54@Caroline> Message-ID: Dear Caroline, Although the policy may have changed since my last publication, the Archivo General de la Nacion has not charged me when I have published an image from one of their manuscripts (except for the cost of purchasing the slide). The INAH, however, charged me $75 USD per image, even when it was a drawing made by an artist that I paid to make a copy from a photograph of a manuscript page or image. Others can better speak to the cost of reproducing an image of an object or archaeological site. Best wishes, Stephanie Wood ------------------- > Dear Colleagues, > > I am currently working on my first book for Palgrave (a development of my > doctoral thesis about gender in Aztec culture) and I was hoping that those > on the list with far greater experience might be prepared to offer some > advice about copyright permissions. As is usual with these things, I am > wrangling with the publisher about costs of permissions and who will pay > them (mostly me!) and so have been investigating the best place to obtain > some images. The cost of permissions vary tremendously between institutions > and I was wondering if anyone could recommend any particularly good (and > preferably affordable) sources of Aztec images. > > The pictures in the book will be black and white in-text images, not plates, > and are mostly intended to illustrate the text and evoke the sense of the > culture, rather than to be critical to the discussion, which gives me quite > a lot of flexibility. Any advice or suggestions which you could offer would > be much appreciated. Thank you all in advance. > > Yours, > Caroline > ----- > Dr. Caroline Dodds > Junior Research Fellow > Sidney Sussex College > CB2 3HU > > ced44 at cam.ac.uk > From jrabasa at CALMAIL.BERKELEY.EDU Mon Aug 8 22:04:46 2005 From: jrabasa at CALMAIL.BERKELEY.EDU (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Jos=E9_Rabasa?=) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2005 15:04:46 -0700 Subject: Image permissions/copyright In-Reply-To: <047201c59c3a$044e6550$fa1b0d54@Caroline> Message-ID: Hi Caroline: Estephanie is right about the charges by INAH. I just got a hefty bill. Note that the Bibliotheque nationale de France is one of the few institutions that does not charge for permissions to reproduce materials in academic publications. As you know their collection is superb. Best wishes, Jose >Dear Colleagues, > >I am currently working on my first book for Palgrave (a development >of my doctoral thesis about gender in Aztec culture) and I was >hoping that those on the list with far greater experience might be >prepared to offer some advice about copyright permissions. As is >usual with these things, I am wrangling with the publisher about >costs of permissions and who will pay them (mostly me!) and so have >been investigating the best place to obtain some images. The cost of >permissions vary tremendously between institutions and I was >wondering if anyone could recommend any particularly good (and >preferably affordable) sources of Aztec images. > >The pictures in the book will be black and white in-text images, not >plates, and are mostly intended to illustrate the text and evoke the >sense of the culture, rather than to be critical to the discussion, >which gives me quite a lot of flexibility. Any advice or suggestions >which you could offer would be much appreciated. Thank you all in >advance. > >Yours, >Caroline >----- >Dr. Caroline Dodds >Junior Research Fellow >Sidney Sussex College >CB2 3HU > >ced44 at cam.ac.uk From institute at CSUMB.EDU Wed Aug 10 12:47:27 2005 From: institute at CSUMB.EDU (Archaeology Institute) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 05:47:27 -0700 Subject: Image permissions/copyright In-Reply-To: <047201c59c3a$044e6550$fa1b0d54@Caroline> Message-ID: Nahua language and culture discussion writes: >Dear Colleagues, > >I am currently working on my first book for Palgrave (a development of my >doctoral thesis about gender in Aztec culture) and I was hoping that those >on the list with far greater experience might be prepared to offer some >advice about copyright permissions. As is usual with these things, I am >wrangling with the publisher about costs of permissions and who will pay >them (mostly me!) and so have been investigating the best place to obtain >some images. The cost of permissions vary tremendously between institutions >and I was wondering if anyone could recommend any particularly good (and >preferably affordable) sources of Aztec images. > >The pictures in the book will be black and white in-text images, not plates, >and are mostly intended to illustrate the text and evoke the sense of the >culture, rather than to be critical to the discussion, which gives me quite >a lot of flexibility. Any advice or suggestions which you could offer would >be much appreciated. Thank you all in advance. > >Yours, >Caroline >----- >Dr. Caroline Dodds >Junior Research Fellow >Sidney Sussex College >CB2 3HU > >ced44 at cam.ac.uk Dear Dr. Dodds, I recently faced this very same issue with respect to indexing, bibliography, and illustrations needs, and prepared a proposal for a "publication subvention" to cover such costs. My co-editor and I submitted this request and were funded by his Dean. As such, all indexing and cross-referencing of bibliography and illustrations fees were covered. You may wish to consider this option for your own book. PS: I have a large collection of images (ca. 300,000 slides) that I've produced during the past 30 years...and the majority concern Mesoamerican themes. Best Regards, Ruben G. Mendoza, Ph.D., Director Institute for Archaeological Science, Technology and Visualization Social and Behavioral Sciences California State University Monterey Bay 100 Campus Center Seaside, California 93955-8001 Email: archaeology_institute at csumb..edu Voice: 831-582-3760; Fax: 831-582-3566 http://archaeology.csumb.edu; http://archaeology.csumb.edu/wireless/ "If we knew what we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?" -Albert Einstein Confidentiality Notice: The information contained in this e-mail message is sender-privileged and confidential information. It is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, electronic storage or use of this communication is prohibited. From mrharri1 at FACSTAFF.WISC.EDU Sat Aug 13 14:15:47 2005 From: mrharri1 at FACSTAFF.WISC.EDU (MAX R HARRIS) Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2005 09:15:47 -0500 Subject: Image permissions/copyright Message-ID: Dear Caroline, In my Aztecs, Moors, and Christians (2000), I used images from the Codex Borbonicus, ed. Karl Nowotny (1974), courtesy of Akademische Druck-u. Verlagsanstalt; the Florentine Codex, 13 vols., ed. and trans. Anderson and Dribble (1950-1982), courtesy of the University of Utah Press and the School of American Research; and the Codice Aubin [Historia de la nacion mexicana, ed. and trans. Charles Dibble (1963)], courtesy of Editorial Porrua. None of these publishers asked for anything more than the proper acknowledgment. Best wishes, Max Harris ----- Original Message ----- From: Caroline Dodds Date: Monday, August 8, 2005 11:55 am Subject: Image permissions/copyright > Dear Colleagues, > > I am currently working on my first book for Palgrave (a > development of my > doctoral thesis about gender in Aztec culture) and I was hoping > that those > on the list with far greater experience might be prepared to offer > some > advice about copyright permissions. As is usual with these things, > I am > wrangling with the publisher about costs of permissions and who > will pay > them (mostly me!) and so have been investigating the best place to > obtain > some images. The cost of permissions vary tremendously between > institutions > and I was wondering if anyone could recommend any particularly > good (and > preferably affordable) sources of Aztec images. > > The pictures in the book will be black and white in-text images, > not plates, > and are mostly intended to illustrate the text and evoke the sense > of the > culture, rather than to be critical to the discussion, which gives > me quite > a lot of flexibility. Any advice or suggestions which you could > offer would > be much appreciated. Thank you all in advance. > > Yours, > Caroline > ----- > Dr. Caroline Dodds > Junior Research Fellow > Sidney Sussex College > CB2 3HU > > ced44 at cam.ac.uk > From jrabasa at CALMAIL.BERKELEY.EDU Sat Aug 13 16:49:54 2005 From: jrabasa at CALMAIL.BERKELEY.EDU (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Jos=E9_Rabasa?=) Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2005 09:49:54 -0700 Subject: Image permissions/copyright In-Reply-To: <1515fb615143c0.15143c01515fb6@wiscmail.wisc.edu> Message-ID: Dear Caroline and Max: It is my impression that the days when publishers gave permission are over, given that libraries claim rights. This was for instance the case with a request to use images from the UC Berkeley edition of the Mendoza; they just sent me to the Bodleyian. Having said this, Caroline, you may as well try Max's recommendation first. It might work. I am currently waiting for authorization to use a reproduction of a a page from the facsimile of the Florentine Codex. Who has the rights? The photographer, the publisher or the Biblioteca Medicea Laurenziana? I have the impression that we had this discussion before and that the general opinion was that it is the libraries who hold the rights. Unfortunately, I might add. But this is not the place for nationalist rant. Jose >Dear Caroline, > >In my Aztecs, Moors, and Christians (2000), I used images from the >Codex Borbonicus, ed. Karl Nowotny (1974), courtesy of Akademische >Druck-u. Verlagsanstalt; the Florentine Codex, 13 vols., ed. and >trans. Anderson and Dribble (1950-1982), courtesy of the University of >Utah Press and the School of American Research; and the Codice Aubin >[Historia de la nacion mexicana, ed. and trans. Charles Dibble >(1963)], courtesy of Editorial Porrua. None of these publishers asked >for anything more than the proper acknowledgment. > >Best wishes, > >Max Harris > > > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Caroline Dodds >Date: Monday, August 8, 2005 11:55 am >Subject: Image permissions/copyright > >> Dear Colleagues, >> >> I am currently working on my first book for Palgrave (a >> development of my >> doctoral thesis about gender in Aztec culture) and I was hoping >> that those >> on the list with far greater experience might be prepared to offer >> some >> advice about copyright permissions. As is usual with these things, >> I am >> wrangling with the publisher about costs of permissions and who >> will pay >> them (mostly me!) and so have been investigating the best place to >> obtain >> some images. The cost of permissions vary tremendously between >> institutions >> and I was wondering if anyone could recommend any particularly >> good (and >> preferably affordable) sources of Aztec images. >> >> The pictures in the book will be black and white in-text images, >> not plates, >> and are mostly intended to illustrate the text and evoke the sense >> of the >> culture, rather than to be critical to the discussion, which gives >> me quite >> a lot of flexibility. Any advice or suggestions which you could >> offer would >> be much appreciated. Thank you all in advance. >> >> Yours, >> Caroline >> ----- >> Dr. Caroline Dodds >> Junior Research Fellow >> Sidney Sussex College >> CB2 3HU >> >> ced44 at cam.ac.uk >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sfargo at EARTHLINK.NET Sat Aug 13 21:23:34 2005 From: sfargo at EARTHLINK.NET (sfargo@earthlink.net) Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2005 17:23:34 -0400 Subject: Image permissions/copyright Message-ID: To:NAHUAT-L at LISTS.UMN.EDU Did UC Press say whether that applied to the tracings of the Mendoza codex? I was going to use some bits from the "Pictorial Parallel Image Replicas" marked as * tracings* by Jean Cuker Sells from page 8 of that section of the paperback to label details of a European painting. So I wonder if the Bodleian has the rights to the tracings. I'm only using them to mark some details 2-tecpatl through 10-tecpatl, and was copying the details from the tracings because they're more legible than the original with its blue paint. For that one illustration, an alternative would be to write "ce acatl" etc. phonetically, since the details are labels. I wonder what the story is for tiny details though. The illustration is an extreme case since 1-acatl is from another codex and the labels are on details from a painting, and I was hoping UC Press, Vienna, and Patrimonio Nacional would just okay it without charging anything, in other words there would have to be permission, but permission might be free. I wonder what Vienna would be likely to charge for one ce-acatl. (see attached) Susan Gilchrist Original Message: ----------------- From: Jos? Rabasa jrabasa at CALMAIL.BERKELEY.EDU Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2005 09:49:54 -0700 To: NAHUAT-L at LISTS.UMN.EDU Subject: Re: Image permissions/copyright Dear Caroline and Max: It is my impression that the days when publishers gave permission are over, given that libraries claim rights. This was for instance the case with a request to use images from the UC Berkeley edition of the Mendoza; they just sent me to the Bodleyian. Having said this, Caroline, you may as well try Max's recommendation first. It might work. I am currently waiting for authorization to use a reproduction of a a page from the facsimile of the Florentine Codex. Who has the rights? The photographer, the publisher or the Biblioteca Medicea Laurenziana? I have the impression that we had this discussion before and that the general opinion was that it is the libraries who hold the rights. Unfortunately, I might add. But this is not the place for nationalist rant. Jose >Dear Caroline, > >In my Aztecs, Moors, and Christians (2000), I used images from the >Codex Borbonicus, ed. Karl Nowotny (1974), courtesy of Akademische >Druck-u. Verlagsanstalt; the Florentine Codex, 13 vols., ed. and >trans. Anderson and Dribble (1950-1982), courtesy of the University of >Utah Press and the School of American Research; and the Codice Aubin >[Historia de la nacion mexicana, ed. and trans. Charles Dibble >(1963)], courtesy of Editorial Porrua. None of these publishers asked >for anything more than the proper acknowledgment. > >Best wishes, > >Max Harris > > > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Caroline Dodds >Date: Monday, August 8, 2005 11:55 am >Subject: Image permissions/copyright > >> Dear Colleagues, >> >> I am currently working on my first book for Palgrave (a >> development of my >> doctoral thesis about gender in Aztec culture) and I was hoping >> that those >> on the list with far greater experience might be prepared to offer >> some >> advice about copyright permissions. As is usual with these things, >> I am >> wrangling with the publisher about costs of permissions and who >> will pay >> them (mostly me!) and so have been investigating the best place to >> obtain >> some images. The cost of permissions vary tremendously between >> institutions >> and I was wondering if anyone could recommend any particularly >> good (and >> preferably affordable) sources of Aztec images. >> >> The pictures in the book will be black and white in-text images, >> not plates, >> and are mostly intended to illustrate the text and evoke the sense >> of the >> culture, rather than to be critical to the discussion, which gives >> me quite >> a lot of flexibility. Any advice or suggestions which you could >> offer would >> be much appreciated. Thank you all in advance. >> >> Yours, >> Caroline >> ----- >> Dr. Caroline Dodds >> Junior Research Fellow >> Sidney Sussex College >> CB2 3HU >> >> ced44 at cam.ac.uk >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: chronology.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 91329 bytes Desc: chronology.jpg URL: From ced44 at CAM.AC.UK Mon Aug 15 08:22:45 2005 From: ced44 at CAM.AC.UK (Caroline Dodds) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 09:22:45 +0100 Subject: Image permissions/copyright Message-ID: Dear Max, Thanks so much for taking the time to reply to my question. I really appreciate your advice and will certainly try approaching the relevant publishers. (And I really enjoyed your book, by the way! I found it very thought-provoking and offered a lot of new perspectives on the ritual/cultural dimension.) Best wishes and thanks again, Caroline ----- Dr. Caroline Dodds Junior Research Fellow Sidney Sussex College CB2 3HU ced44 at cam.ac.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: "MAX R HARRIS" To: Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2005 3:15 PM Subject: Re: Image permissions/copyright > Dear Caroline, > > In my Aztecs, Moors, and Christians (2000), I used images from the > Codex Borbonicus, ed. Karl Nowotny (1974), courtesy of Akademische > Druck-u. Verlagsanstalt; the Florentine Codex, 13 vols., ed. and > trans. Anderson and Dribble (1950-1982), courtesy of the University of > Utah Press and the School of American Research; and the Codice Aubin > [Historia de la nacion mexicana, ed. and trans. Charles Dibble > (1963)], courtesy of Editorial Porrua. None of these publishers asked > for anything more than the proper acknowledgment. > > Best wishes, > > Max Harris > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Caroline Dodds > Date: Monday, August 8, 2005 11:55 am > Subject: Image permissions/copyright > >> Dear Colleagues, >> >> I am currently working on my first book for Palgrave (a >> development of my >> doctoral thesis about gender in Aztec culture) and I was hoping >> that those >> on the list with far greater experience might be prepared to offer >> some >> advice about copyright permissions. As is usual with these things, >> I am >> wrangling with the publisher about costs of permissions and who >> will pay >> them (mostly me!) and so have been investigating the best place to >> obtain >> some images. The cost of permissions vary tremendously between >> institutions >> and I was wondering if anyone could recommend any particularly >> good (and >> preferably affordable) sources of Aztec images. >> >> The pictures in the book will be black and white in-text images, >> not plates, >> and are mostly intended to illustrate the text and evoke the sense >> of the >> culture, rather than to be critical to the discussion, which gives >> me quite >> a lot of flexibility. Any advice or suggestions which you could >> offer would >> be much appreciated. Thank you all in advance. >> >> Yours, >> Caroline >> ----- >> Dr. Caroline Dodds >> Junior Research Fellow >> Sidney Sussex College >> CB2 3HU >> >> ced44 at cam.ac.uk >> From ced44 at CAM.AC.UK Mon Aug 15 08:23:39 2005 From: ced44 at CAM.AC.UK (Caroline Dodds) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 09:23:39 +0100 Subject: Image permissions/copyright Message-ID: Re: Image permissions/copyrightThanks so much to everyone who has taken the time to think about my question. I am very grateful for all the advice offered - it is really much appreciated. And also apologies for sending a message intended only for Max to the entire list! Just to contribute slightly to the debate - from my recent experience, I think that it is usually the libraries who claim copyright, but when I looked at the UC website you are now able to request copyright permissions for pages from their publications (including the Mendoza) online, so I presume that they are claiming the right to the four volume facsimile content. It is possible, of course, that they have come to an agreement with the Bodleian to that effect. And thinking about Susan's question - I think I am right in saying that a friend avoided a number of copyright permissions by creating his own line-drawings of images. If an image has been redrawn or modified in some way, I think that measure of whether you need permission is whether it is 'substantially' the same as the original. I just wondered whether, if you were prepared to draw your own version, if that might be a feasible solution, but it may still need permission, these things really seem to vary! Thanks to all again. Yours, Caroline ----- Dr. Caroline Dodds Junior Research Fellow Sidney Sussex College CB2 3HU ced44 at cam.ac.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: Jos? Rabasa To: NAHUAT-L at LISTS.UMN.EDU Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2005 5:49 PM Subject: Re: Image permissions/copyright Dear Caroline and Max: It is my impression that the days when publishers gave permission are over, given that libraries claim rights. This was for instance the case with a request to use images from the UC Berkeley edition of the Mendoza; they just sent me to the Bodleyian. Having said this, Caroline, you may as well try Max's recommendation first. It might work. I am currently waiting for authorization to use a reproduction of a a page from the facsimile of the Florentine Codex. Who has the rights? The photographer, the publisher or the Biblioteca Medicea Laurenziana? I have the impression that we had this discussion before and that the general opinion was that it is the libraries who hold the rights. Unfortunately, I might add. But this is not the place for nationalist rant. Jose Dear Caroline, In my Aztecs, Moors, and Christians (2000), I used images from the Codex Borbonicus, ed. Karl Nowotny (1974), courtesy of Akademische Druck-u. Verlagsanstalt; the Florentine Codex, 13 vols., ed. and trans. Anderson and Dribble (1950-1982), courtesy of the University of Utah Press and the School of American Research; and the Codice Aubin [Historia de la nacion mexicana, ed. and trans. Charles Dibble (1963)], courtesy of Editorial Porrua. None of these publishers asked for anything more than the proper acknowledgment. Best wishes, Max Harris ----- Original Message ----- From: Caroline Dodds Date: Monday, August 8, 2005 11:55 am Subject: Image permissions/copyright > Dear Colleagues, > > I am currently working on my first book for Palgrave (a > development of my > doctoral thesis about gender in Aztec culture) and I was hoping > that those > on the list with far greater experience might be prepared to offer > some > advice about copyright permissions. As is usual with these things, > I am > wrangling with the publisher about costs of permissions and who > will pay > them (mostly me!) and so have been investigating the best place to > obtain > some images. The cost of permissions vary tremendously between > institutions > and I was wondering if anyone could recommend any particularly > good (and > preferably affordable) sources of Aztec images. > > The pictures in the book will be black and white in-text images, > not plates, > and are mostly intended to illustrate the text and evoke the sense > of the > culture, rather than to be critical to the discussion, which gives > me quite > a lot of flexibility. Any advice or suggestions which you could > offer would > be much appreciated. Thank you all in advance. > > Yours, > Caroline > ----- > Dr. Caroline Dodds > Junior Research Fellow > Sidney Sussex College > CB2 3HU > > ced44 at cam.ac.uk > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mijobas at YAHOO.COM Mon Aug 15 16:24:01 2005 From: mijobas at YAHOO.COM (Michael Stevenson) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 09:24:01 -0700 Subject: Image permissions/copyright In-Reply-To: <002a01c5a172$a3fce210$85070d54@Caroline> Message-ID: A link that concerns copyright issues with art on-line but seems pertinent to this discussion. http://www.medicif.org/dig_library/StateArt/Ipr/Thijm/thijm.html Best, Michael Stevenson --- Caroline Dodds wrote: > Re: Image permissions/copyrightThanks so much to > everyone who has taken the time to think about my > question. I am very grateful for all the advice > offered - it is really much appreciated. And also > apologies for sending a message intended only for > Max to the entire list! > > Just to contribute slightly to the debate - from my > recent experience, I think that it is usually the > libraries who claim copyright, but when I looked at > the UC website you are now able to request copyright > permissions for pages from their publications > (including the Mendoza) online, so I presume that > they are claiming the right to the four volume > facsimile content. It is possible, of course, that > they have come to an agreement with the Bodleian to > that effect. > > And thinking about Susan's question - I think I am > right in saying that a friend avoided a number of > copyright permissions by creating his own > line-drawings of images. If an image has been > redrawn or modified in some way, I think that > measure of whether you need permission is whether it > is 'substantially' the same as the original. I just > wondered whether, if you were prepared to draw your > own version, if that might be a feasible solution, > but it may still need permission, these things > really seem to vary! > > Thanks to all again. > Yours, > Caroline > ----- > Dr. Caroline Dodds > Junior Research Fellow > Sidney Sussex College > CB2 3HU > > ced44 at cam.ac.uk > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jos? Rabasa > To: NAHUAT-L at LISTS.UMN.EDU > Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2005 5:49 PM > Subject: Re: Image permissions/copyright > > > Dear Caroline and Max: > > > It is my impression that the days when publishers > gave permission are over, given that libraries claim > rights. This was for instance the case with a > request to use images from the UC Berkeley edition > of the Mendoza; they just sent me to the Bodleyian. > Having said this, Caroline, you may as well try > Max's recommendation first. It might work. I am > currently waiting for authorization to use a > reproduction of a a page from the facsimile of the > Florentine Codex. Who has the rights? The > photographer, the publisher or the Biblioteca > Medicea Laurenziana? I have the impression that we > had this discussion before and that the general > opinion was that it is the libraries who hold the > rights. Unfortunately, I might add. But this is not > the place for nationalist rant. > > > Jose > > > Dear Caroline, > > In my Aztecs, Moors, and Christians (2000), I > used images from the > Codex Borbonicus, ed. Karl Nowotny (1974), > courtesy of Akademische > Druck-u. Verlagsanstalt; the Florentine Codex, > 13 vols., ed. and > trans. Anderson and Dribble (1950-1982), > courtesy of the University of > Utah Press and the School of American Research; > and the Codice Aubin > [Historia de la nacion mexicana, ed. and trans. > Charles Dibble > (1963)], courtesy of Editorial Porrua. None of > these publishers asked > for anything more than the proper > acknowledgment. > > Best wishes, > > Max Harris > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Caroline Dodds > Date: Monday, August 8, 2005 11:55 am > Subject: Image permissions/copyright > > > Dear Colleagues, > > > > I am currently working on my first book for > Palgrave (a > > development of my > > doctoral thesis about gender in Aztec culture) > and I was hoping > > that those > > on the list with far greater experience might > be prepared to offer > > some > > advice about copyright permissions. As is > usual with these things, > > I am > > wrangling with the publisher about costs of > permissions and who > > will pay > > them (mostly me!) and so have been > investigating the best place to > > obtain > > some images. The cost of permissions vary > tremendously between > > institutions > > and I was wondering if anyone could recommend > any particularly > > good (and > > preferably affordable) sources of Aztec > images. > > > > The pictures in the book will be black and > white in-text images, > > not plates, > > and are mostly intended to illustrate the text > and evoke the sense > > of the > > culture, rather than to be critical to the > discussion, which gives > > me quite > > a lot of flexibility. Any advice or > suggestions which you could > > offer would > > be much appreciated. Thank you all in advance. > > > > Yours, > > Caroline > > ----- > > Dr. Caroline Dodds > > Junior Research Fellow > > Sidney Sussex College > > CB2 3HU > > > > ced44 at cam.ac.uk > > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From micc2 at COX.NET Fri Aug 19 20:57:39 2005 From: micc2 at COX.NET (micc2) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 13:57:39 -0700 Subject: Ixtle -sisal-henequin? Message-ID: Piali compaleh huan comali I am looking for the roots of the word "ixtle" My father uses it for "sisal" or "henequin" But the only word that is near to this spelling is "ixtli" for face or surface. Any help? tlazcamati miyec! From Spoole541 at AOL.COM Fri Aug 19 21:30:45 2005 From: Spoole541 at AOL.COM (Stafford Poole) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 17:30:45 EDT Subject: Ixtle -sisal-henequin? Message-ID: The only word I can think of is ichtli, meaning the thread spun from the maguey fiber. The confusion of x and ch was not uncommon in older documents and the pronunciations are close. Stafford Poole Independent scholar From dfrye at UMICH.EDU Fri Aug 19 22:28:20 2005 From: dfrye at UMICH.EDU (Frye, David) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 18:28:20 -0400 Subject: Ixtle -sisal-henequin? Message-ID: That must be it. Frances Karttunen's dictionary has i:ch-tli, thread made from maguey fiber (which is what sisal or henequen is, you know). Santamaria's Diccionario de Mejicanismos has: Ixtle (Del azt. ixtli). m. Nombre generico, aztequismo que se ha hecho de uso universal para llamar toda clase de fibras vegetales. 2. Nombre que se aplica al genero vegetal de los Agaves y a las plantas que lo forman y que producen fibra, caracteristicas de Mejico, en numerosisimas especies que tienen varios nombres peculiares y regionales. 3. Por extension y en terminos de charreria, la reata de lazar, el peal, la lechuguilla, y esto por donaire. (Santamaria, you should know, was no nahuatlato.) I recall that in San Luis Potosi the word ixtle was used for the fiber/ropes made from the lechuguilla, a maguey-like plant but a lot tinier than your average maguey. David Frye Dependent scholar ________________________________ From: Nahua language and culture discussion on behalf of Stafford Poole Sent: Fri 8/19/2005 5:30 PM To: NAHUAT-L at LISTS.UMN.EDU Subject: Re: Ixtle -sisal-henequin? The only word I can think of is ichtli, meaning the thread spun from the maguey fiber. The confusion of x and ch was not uncommon in older documents and the pronunciations are close. Stafford Poole Independent scholar -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From idiez at MAC.COM Fri Aug 19 23:47:07 2005 From: idiez at MAC.COM (idiez at MAC.COM) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 18:47:07 -0500 Subject: Ixtle -sisal-henequin? In-Reply-To: <7294219083B51445BE4F7D2742F0A89110D632@ECLUST1-VS2.adsroot.itcs.umich.edu> Message-ID: "ichtli" is the maguey fiber used to make ropes ("mecatl") in the Huasteca. "cuaichtli" is a an older person with white hair. "nocuaichhui", "my white hair" John Sullivan Teicneltzin tlen zan tlamachtihtinemi canahya On Aug 19, 2005, at 5:28 PM, Frye, David wrote: > That must be it. Frances Karttunen's dictionary has i:ch-tli, thread > made from maguey fiber (which is what sisal or henequen is, you know). > ? > Santamaria's Diccionario de Mejicanismos has: > ? > Ixtle (Del azt. ixtli). m. Nombre generico, aztequismo que se ha hecho > de uso universal para llamar toda clase de fibras vegetales. 2. Nombre > que se aplica al genero vegetal de los Agaves y a las plantas que lo > forman y que producen fibra, caracteristicas de Mejico, en > numerosisimas especies que tienen varios nombres peculiares y > regionales. 3. Por extension y en terminos de charreria, la reata de > lazar, el peal, la lechuguilla, y esto por donaire. > ? > (Santamaria, you should know, was no nahuatlato.) > ? > I recall that in San Luis Potosi the word ixtle was used for the > fiber/ropes made from the lechuguilla, a maguey-like plant but a lot > tinier than your average maguey. > ? > ? > David Frye > Dependent scholar > > From: Nahua language and culture discussion on behalf of Stafford Poole > Sent: Fri 8/19/2005 5:30 PM > To: NAHUAT-L at LISTS.UMN.EDU > Subject: Re: Ixtle -sisal-henequin? > > > The only word I can think of is ichtli, meaning the thread spun from > the > maguey fiber.? The confusion of x and ch was not uncommon in older > documents and > the pronunciations are close. > > Stafford Poole > Independent scholar > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 2829 bytes Desc: not available URL: From micc2 at COX.NET Sat Aug 20 15:36:38 2005 From: micc2 at COX.NET (micc2) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2005 08:36:38 -0700 Subject: Ixtle -sisal-henequin? In-Reply-To: <39e7f75d6fe411b0f570a951b14dd762@mac.com> Message-ID: Thanks to all the scholars who responded!!!! mario e. aguilar wannabe scholar idiez at MAC.COM wrote: > "ichtli" is the maguey fiber used to make ropes ("mecatl") in the > Huasteca. > "cuaichtli" is a an older person with white hair. > "nocuaichhui", "my white hair" > > John Sullivan > Teicneltzin tlen zan tlamachtihtinemi canahya > > On Aug 19, 2005, at 5:28 PM, Frye, David wrote: > > That must be it. Frances Karttunen's dictionary has i:ch-tli, > thread made from maguey fiber (which is what sisal or henequen is, > you know). > > Santamaria's Diccionario de Mejicanismos has: > > *Ixtle* (Del azt. /ixtli/). m. Nombre generico, aztequismo que se > ha hecho de uso universal para llamar toda clase de fibras > vegetales. 2. Nombre que se aplica al genero vegetal de los > /Agaves/ y a las plantas que lo forman y que producen fibra, > caracteristicas de Mejico, en numerosisimas especies que tienen > varios nombres peculiares y regionales. 3. Por extension y en > terminos de charreria, la reata de lazar, el peal, la lechuguilla, > y esto por donaire. > > (Santamaria, you should know, was no nahuatlato.) > > I recall that in San Luis Potosi the word ixtle was used for the > fiber/ropes made from the lechuguilla, a maguey-like plant but a > lot tinier than your average maguey. > > > David Frye > Dependent scholar > > *From:* Nahua language and culture discussion on behalf of > Stafford Poole > *Sent:* Fri 8/19/2005 5:30 PM > *To:* NAHUAT-L at LISTS.UMN.EDU > *Subject:* Re: Ixtle -sisal-henequin? > > > The only word I can think of is ichtli, meaning the thread spun > from the > maguey fiber. The confusion of x and ch was not uncommon in older > documents and > the pronunciations are close. > > Stafford Poole > Independent scholar > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From micc2 at COX.NET Sun Aug 21 06:06:23 2005 From: micc2 at COX.NET (micc2) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2005 23:06:23 -0700 Subject: new Molina printing In-Reply-To: <039601c59695$2e9a6110$f2140d54@Caroline> Message-ID: I just ordered 6 copies of the dictionary. I ordered them on Aug. 11, and they arrived at my home on Aug. 19! The shipping (via DHL) was on the steep side, but fast: but at least I have copies for my family and myself! I was told: Recibimos sus pedidos donde solicita "Vocabulario en lengua castellana y mexicana". Los dos libros que seleccion? son el mismo pero de diferentes a?os de edici?n, de las cuales la m?s actual es la ?nica que tenemos en existencia y es la que se enviar?a. So although they list the two as separate printings only the 2004 has be reprinted. Since my own copy dates from my original Nahuatl classes with Jeff Burnham in 1981, It was great to finally have a copy that has a cover that still covers the book!!! Caroline Dodds wrote: > Dear Walter, > > I bought a copy of the fourth (2001) edition of the Molina (which was > also very clear, I have to say) about two years ago from the Porrua > website. Their website is certainly rather recalcitrant, but after a > few tries through different kinds of search today, the Molina > eventually turned up. You can find both the 2001 and the 2004 edition > at the following two addresses: > http://201.134.180.83/Libro/Libro.aspx?CB=9789700747446 > http://201.134.180.83/Libro/Libro.aspx?CB=9789700727394 > > Hope that's helpful. > Yours, > Caroline > ----- > Dr. Caroline Dodds > Junior Research Fellow > Sidney Sussex College > CB2 3HU > > ced44 at cam.ac.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From micc2 at COX.NET Sun Aug 21 08:06:24 2005 From: micc2 at COX.NET (micc2) Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2005 01:06:24 -0700 Subject: Quenqueh quihtoa Teotlac/tiotlac?? In-Reply-To: <43074E06.3080106@cox.net> Message-ID: Ceyoc tlahtlanilli: re: The word Teotlac in classic Nahuatl, and Tiotlac in Chicontepec Nahuatl teo = god, divine, super... ( as in sun) what does the TLAC signify? my guess: it has to do with the sun descending? Tlazcamati miyec! micc2 wrote: > Thanks to all the scholars who responded!!!! > > > > > > > > mario e. aguilar > wannabe scholar > > > > > > idiez at MAC.COM wrote: > >> "ichtli" is the maguey fiber used to make ropes ("mecatl") in the >> Huasteca. >> "cuaichtli" is a an older person with white hair. >> "nocuaichhui", "my white hair" >> >> John Sullivan >> Teicneltzin tlen zan tlamachtihtinemi canahya >> >> On Aug 19, 2005, at 5:28 PM, Frye, David wrote: >> >> That must be it. Frances Karttunen's dictionary has i:ch-tli, >> thread made from maguey fiber (which is what sisal or henequen >> is, you know). >> >> Santamaria's Diccionario de Mejicanismos has: >> >> *Ixtle* (Del azt. /ixtli/). m. Nombre generico, aztequismo que se >> ha hecho de uso universal para llamar toda clase de fibras >> vegetales. 2. Nombre que se aplica al genero vegetal de los >> /Agaves/ y a las plantas que lo forman y que producen fibra, >> caracteristicas de Mejico, en numerosisimas especies que tienen >> varios nombres peculiares y regionales. 3. Por extension y en >> terminos de charreria, la reata de lazar, el peal, la >> lechuguilla, y esto por donaire. >> >> (Santamaria, you should know, was no nahuatlato.) >> >> I recall that in San Luis Potosi the word ixtle was used for the >> fiber/ropes made from the lechuguilla, a maguey-like plant but a >> lot tinier than your average maguey. >> >> >> David Frye >> Dependent scholar >> >> *From:* Nahua language and culture discussion on behalf of >> Stafford Poole >> *Sent:* Fri 8/19/2005 5:30 PM >> *To:* NAHUAT-L at LISTS.UMN.EDU >> *Subject:* Re: Ixtle -sisal-henequin? >> >> >> The only word I can think of is ichtli, meaning the thread spun >> from the >> maguey fiber. The confusion of x and ch was not uncommon in >> older documents and >> the pronunciations are close. >> >> Stafford Poole >> Independent scholar >> >> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From micc2 at COX.NET Tue Aug 23 04:15:31 2005 From: micc2 at COX.NET (micc2) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 21:15:31 -0700 Subject: Ixtle -sisal-henequin? In-Reply-To: <39e7f75d6fe411b0f570a951b14dd762@mac.com> Message-ID: How was Bogota? > Teicneltzin tlen zan *alguien probre Que Solo??* > tlamachtihtinemi canahya *handa ense?ando por hay/alguba parte???* > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rcrapo at HASS.USU.EDU Tue Aug 23 15:28:16 2005 From: rcrapo at HASS.USU.EDU (Richley) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2005 09:28:16 -0600 Subject: Help on citation Message-ID: I wonder if there is anyone on the list who has a copy of Diego MuZoz Camargo's Historia de Tlaxcala who would be willing to help me find the page(s) on which the following quotation occurs. I'm finishing the final corrections of the proof pages for a publication, it is missing from my notes, and our university library is being moved, so I don't have access to the book when I most urgently need it. The quote refers to the war when the Teochichimecs were driven out of the Valley of Mexico (and then migrated to Tlaxcala). Here's the quote: "Habiendo puesto los chichimecas esta supersticin por obra, los sacerdotes del templo, y el mayor de ellos, que le llamaban Achcauhtli teopixque tlamacazcuachcauhtli, comenza[ron] a orar e incesar con grandes perfumes ante el tabernculo de Camaxtli, y all donde estaba el vaso de leche que haba destilado de la mujer doncella, comenzando desde la maana, a medio da, a puestas del sol y a media noche, incesaban y perfumaban. Lo cual se hizo tres das arreo y siempre mirando en el vaso de las saetas [por si] se obraba algo en ello. No van que hacan ningn efecto sus hechiceras, antes la gota de leche estaba ya casi seca y marchita y encogida. Habindose de dar el combate [al] otro da, estando los chichimecas muy acongojados." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From susana at LOSRANCHEROS.ORG Wed Aug 24 11:09:35 2005 From: susana at LOSRANCHEROS.ORG (Susana Moraleda) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 13:09:35 +0200 Subject: Universidad Nahuatl Message-ID: Hola, Por favor quisiera saber si alguno de ustedes ha asistido a las clases que se imparten en la Universidad Nahuatl en Cuernavaca. Si pudieran compartir sus impresiones conmigo se los agradeceria, ya que estoy considerando la posibilidad de tomar algun curso alli. Escribi a la senora Martha Ramirez, pero no me contesta. Quisiera saber fechas de los cursos, costo, etc. En otras palabras, es algo serio? o es solo para curiosos extranjeros? vale la pena? Gracias. Susana Moraleda From lemoni1 at YAHOO.COM Thu Aug 25 10:22:55 2005 From: lemoni1 at YAHOO.COM (Corrinne Burns) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 11:22:55 +0100 Subject: Fwd: Re: Looking for references to Tagetes in old Mexican manuscripts Message-ID: Not sure whether this will be of interest, but the helpful people at London's Kew Gardens directed me to this online version of Francisco Hernandez' 1651 guide to Mexican herbs. The names are given in Nahuatl and Latin. Corrinne http://alfama.sim.ucm.es/dioscorides/consulta_libro.asp?ref=X533816776&idioma=0 > > > > > > Yours, > > Craig Brough > > Enquiries Librarian > > Library & Archives > > Royal Botanic Gardens, Kew > > Richmond > > Surrey TW9 3AE > > UK > > 020 8332 5421 Phone > > 020 8332 5430 Fax > > C.Brough at rbgkew.org.uk > > http://www.kew.org/library/index.html > > Sponsor a book to celebrate or commemorate. Click > > here > > http://www.kew.org/friends/FrLegacy.pdf > > > > > > > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > > How much free photo storage do you get? Store your > holiday > snaps for FREE with Yahoo! Photos > http://uk.photos.yahoo.com > ___________________________________________________________ To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com From idiez at MAC.COM Wed Aug 31 00:39:13 2005 From: idiez at MAC.COM (idiez at MAC.COM) Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 19:39:13 -0500 Subject: vetative in modern nahuatl Message-ID: I think I'm seeing the vetative in Huastecan Nahuatl. It looks a lot like an incomplete imperative phrase, but maybe that's what the vetative is in the first place. Note that there is one formula for first and third persons, and another for second person. 1. ma mitzittayoc tlamachtihquetl = no m?s que te vea el maestro. Perhaps this is like: "Que te vea el maestro (imperative)...[y ver?s]." 2. zan xiquilhuiyoc tlamachtihquetl = no m?s que le digas al maestro. Perhaps: "S?lo dile al maestro (imperativo)....[y ver?s]." Two more examples: 3. zan ximoquetzacanyoc = no m?s que se paren ustedes. 4. ma quitlahtlanilicanyoc = no m?s que le pregunten ellos. John Sullivan, Ph.D. Profesor de lengua y cultura nahua Unidad Acad?mica de Idiomas Universidad Aut?noma de Zacatecas Director Instituto de Docencia e Investigaci?n Etnol?gica de Zacatecas, A.C. Tacuba 152, int. 47 Centro Hist?rico Zacatecas, Zac. 98000 M?xico Oficina: +52 (492) 925-3415 Fax: +52 (492) 925-3416 Domicilio: +52 (492) 768-6048 Celular: +52 (492) 544-5985 idiez at mac.com www.idiez.org.mx