altepetl

[campbel at INDIANA.EDU]

    First, I think that the activity on this thread and the previous one,
Chimalpain, have been a nice demonstration of the power and utility of Nahuat-l.
I imagine that most of us would not be able to sustain this level of activity on
a year-round basis, but I prefer "busy" to "quiet".

    Second, a little quibble, but a very serious one on the quote below:
As Fran has stated very clearly, yes, "altepetl" developed from a phrase
(involving two full *words*) rather than from the compounding of *stems*, but I
am relatively sure (even though we all know that one who is "sure" is on
slippery ice) that pronouncing the phrase "atl tepetl" with one's built-in
speech habits and one's notions of Nahuatl pronunciation (either now or
sixteenth century, or, more accurately, prior to the sixteenth century) will not
lead one down the path of reality.  I think that John, for one, can render a
good native-sounding pronunciation of the phrase, but that is *not* the main point.

    Phonetically, we know that /tl/ is a voiceless alveolar affricate; if we
proceed from the voiceless lateral fricative release to the probably dental
stoppage (we don't know whether the dental stop may have assimilated in point of
articulation to the immediately preceding consonant), it is hard to imagine how
the transition could have developed a voiced [l] segment (and then deleted the
preceding [t] segment.
    My point of view is that we shouldn't deceive ourselves by believing that
we "feel" or "appreciate" what happened when we don't.  I am not suggesting that
we not sniff down any likely path of inquiry, just that we recognize ones that
are not reasonable.
>
> I believe that the original form was atl-tepetl. Only if you try to
> pronounce it, it will sound more and more like al-tepetl the more you say
> it. In other words I see it as an assimilation of 'tl' in front of 't' gives
> 'lt'.
>
>

    Third, since I thought that some examples of "difrasismos" would be helpful.
In spite of the fact that there is a list member who knows much more about them
than I do, I'm sending an uncommented set of them for your curiosity and
enjoyment.  The "uncommented" nature of the list is well motivated -- at some
point, tlatzihuiliztli set in and there is no cure for that.

Joe



iahaz icuitlapil                 his subjects, his vassals

ahcohuic tlalchihuic quittaz     he will respect him

ahuaqueh tepehuaqueh             inhabitants of a city

apixqueh tepepixqueh             guardians of a town

ahuayohuaque, huitzyohuaque      possessors of offspring

pochotl ahuehuetl                shelter

tealcececahui, tetzitzicazhui    one who punishes

teatoyahuia tetepexihuia         she punishes someone

huehuetitlan, ayacachtitlan      in rituals of song and dance

xomolli, caltechtli              oblivion

teoatl tlachinolli               war

teoatl tlachinoltilmahtli        cape which has a war symbol on it

tocochca, in toneuhca            our nourishment

tecue, in tehuipil               someone's woman

huictli, mecapalli               bondage

tinechopochtiz, tinechitzcactiz  you will occupy a place in my confidence,
                                 you will have my proxy

ixequeh nacacequeh               prudent people

petlatiz icpaltiz                he will reign

tecomic tecaxic timayahuiz       you will pilfer