Fwd(2): Re: About the word "teotl" and Ometeotl

[Kay Read]

Good question!

I've heard that explained in other more or less analogous Native
American contexts as an idea of inner and outer forms.  The sun is
being with will and power to move according to its nature of sun-ness
(Clara Sue Kidwell, "Systems of Knowledge," in America in 1492:  The
World of the Indian Peoples before the Arrival of Columbus, ed. Alvin
M. Josephy Jr., NY, Alfred A. Knopf, 369-403).

I.e., the outer form is shaped and motivated by the inner form.  I've
always kinda liked that way of thinking about it.

Another western model that comes into play here unconsciously is the
rather Platonic notion of separating form and ideal form.  But, I
don't think that's what's really happening here.  The inner form may
be housed in the outer, but neither could exist without the other and
neither is some immaterial, spiritual ideal.  This is closer to the
idea that the heart keeps the outer body alive in particular ways (and
the concept of yoli is very important. . .check out Lopez Austin, if
you haven't already).  The inner heart and the outer body in which it
sits are separate entities, but neither could function without the
other.

In the case of Cinteotl, how about this?  Maize is the outer form that
is filled with teo, making it Cinteotl, who is a being that can be
depicted both as corn plants and as a "deity" with particular
iconographic traits.  Remember all the pictures of ears of corn being
shown as little heads sticking out of the husks.  Corn cobs themselves
are beings, who sometimes appear as individual ears and other times
appears as a kind of idea of overarching idea of corn-ness in the form
of Cinteotl.  But the form is naturally depicted as a human-like being
with the powers of corn.

Kay



On 12/6/06, Craig Berry <cberry at cine.net> wrote:
> > On 12/6/06, Kay Read <kay.a.read at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > See what I just sent, but actually I think these forces cannot exist
> > > without the natural things of the normal world.  They have no "house"
> > > in which to live otherwise; and therefore, they are directly
> > > experienced both within one's own body and the corporeal, material
> > > bodies of  other natural things.  See:  Lopez Austin's Human Body
> > > (1988) for a great deal more on this topic.
>
> But they are still distinct from the natural forms in which they have
> existence; otherwise there would be no separate concepts of "maize" and
> "Cinteotl" (just for example).  So, to turn the question around, what
> distinguishes the various divine powers (named by the 'teotl' concept in
> many cases) from the natural objects and processes with which they are
> associated?
>
> --
>    )   Craig Berry - http://www.cine.net/~cberry/
>   =+=   "You do not secure the liberty of our country and value of our
>    (   democracy by undermining them.  That's the road to hell."
>             - Lord Phillips of Sudbury
>
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