From schwallr at morris.umn.edu Tue Jan 24 14:38:24 2006 From: schwallr at morris.umn.edu (John F. Schwaller) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 08:38:24 -0600 Subject: AZTLAN list Message-ID: I would like to invite you all to join the listserv "Aztlan" as it joins its new host at FAMSI -- The Foundation for the Advancement of Mesoamerican Studies, Inc. Aztlan has been around for well over a decade, and has recently been moved to a new home at FAMSI. It is one of the oldest and most respected listservs for Mesoamerican Prehistory. Recent conversations on Aztlan cover such topics as: -The Maya Collapse (discussing the new book by Jared Diamond) -Associated Press reports on Mesoamerican Archaeology -The origins of Maya writing (discussing the new discovery of murals at the site of San Bartolo) -Apocalypto (the upcoming movie by Mel Gibson about the ancient Maya - shot completely in a Maya language) -Haley's Comet and it's influence on the Ancient Maya -The Ancient Maya Calendar (specifically, various arguments about which correlation merges it with our modern western calendar) While much of the discussion on Aztlan focuses on the Maya region, other discussions have included Nahua related topics, as well as more wide-ranging topics on North and South American pre-history. If you are interested, please visit: http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/aztlan Aztlan typically has an activity level of approximately 3-10 emails per day. This may be too many emails for the casual reader. In this case, I still suggest subscribing, but click the bubble for "daily digest" which will deliver all Aztlan messages in a single daily email (you will therefore only receive one email per day, containing all of the day's messages). John F. Schwaller Vice Chancellor for Academic Affairs and Dean 315 Behmler Hall University of Minnesota, Morris 600 E 4th Street Morris, MN 56267 320-589-6015 FAX 320-589-6399 schwallr at morris.umn.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From arnibionic at YAHOO.DE Sun Jan 29 16:33:40 2006 From: arnibionic at YAHOO.DE (=?iso-8859-1?q?Arnd=20S=F6lling?=) Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 17:33:40 +0100 Subject: Nahuatl Pronouns Message-ID: Niltze, I am working on cross-dialectal linguistics of Nahuatl and have come to a question i could not resolve...maybe somebody can help me out...comparing the independent pronouns in the various dialects i noticed that some dialects show shortened forms like ye or yeh while other retain the old classical form like yehuatl...does anyone know the meaning of the stem -huatl or where it comes from? Thank you, Arnd Sölling --------------------------------- Telefonieren Sie ohne weitere Kosten mit Ihren Freunden von PC zu PC! Jetzt Yahoo! Messenger installieren! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From magnuspharao at GMAIL.COM Sun Jan 29 18:16:07 2006 From: magnuspharao at GMAIL.COM (magnus hansen) Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 12:16:07 -0600 Subject: Nahuatl Pronouns In-Reply-To: <20060129163340.39280.qmail@web25225.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: The shortened forms yeh, neh and teh also existed in classical nahuatl according to Launey (and Carochi?) . It is also often the case in the modern dialects that there is a long and a short form and often it is concidental which one ends up in a wordlist. I seem to remember an article by Karen Dakin treating among other things the pronouns of the souther uto-aztecan languages. Any way -*huatl* is not a root, the root would be -*wa* plus the absolutive suffix -*tl*. -*wa*- is a very common affix with a variety of different meanings and functions. I think it will be very difficult to ascribe it any independent meaning in the pronouns. The article by Karen Dakin is: DAKIN, Karen. In press. El nahuatl dentro del yutoazteca sureno: algunas isoglosas gramaticales. In: Estudios linguisticos mesoamericanos, edited by Carolyn Mackay and Veronica Vazquez, Seminario de Lenguas Indigenas, Universidad Nacional Autonoma de Mexico. Magnus Pharao, University of Copenhagen On 29/01/06, Arnd Sölling wrote: > > Niltze, > > I am working on cross-dialectal linguistics of Nahuatl and have come to a > question i could not resolve...maybe somebody can help me out...comparing > the independent pronouns in the various dialects i noticed that some > dialects show shortened forms like ye or yeh while other retain the old > classical form like yehuatl...does anyone know the meaning of the stem > -huatl or where it comes from? > > Thank you, > Arnd Sölling > > ------------------------------ > Telefonieren Sie ohne weitere Kosten mit Ihren Freunden von PC zu PC! > Jetzt Yahoo! Messenger installieren! > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karttu at NANTUCKET.NET Sun Jan 29 21:05:32 2006 From: karttu at NANTUCKET.NET (Frances Karttunen) Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 16:05:32 -0500 Subject: Nahuatl Pronouns In-Reply-To: <20060129163340.39280.qmail@web25225.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > shortened forms like ye or yeh while other retain the old classical > form like yehuatl Actually the short and long forms were co-existent in 16th-century Nahuatl. From david_becraft at HOTMAIL.COM Mon Jan 30 22:10:17 2006 From: david_becraft at HOTMAIL.COM (David Becraft) Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 14:10:17 -0800 Subject: Nahuatl Pronouns In-Reply-To: <20060129163340.39280.qmail@web25225.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: It propably comes from "(na) + (huatl)", clear sound, or just audible sound in general. My opinion is not based on any research I've done, just off the top of my head. Pancho >From: Arnd S�lling >Reply-To: Nahua language and culture discussion >To: NAHUAT-L at LISTS.UMN.EDU >Subject: Nahuatl Pronouns >Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 17:33:40 +0100 > >Niltze, > > I am working on cross-dialectal linguistics of Nahuatl and have come to >a question i could not resolve...maybe somebody can help me out...comparing >the independent pronouns in the various dialects i noticed that some >dialects show shortened forms like ye or yeh while other retain the old >classical form like yehuatl...does anyone know the meaning of the stem >-huatl or where it comes from? > > Thank you, > Arnd S�lling > > >--------------------------------- >Telefonieren Sie ohne weitere Kosten mit Ihren Freunden von PC zu PC! >Jetzt Yahoo! Messenger installieren! From idiez at MAC.COM Mon Jan 30 23:14:25 2006 From: idiez at MAC.COM (idiez at MAC.COM) Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 17:14:25 -0600 Subject: Nahuatl Pronouns In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Listeros, Yo he leído en alguna parte que los dos elementos, -eh-, y -hua-, que constituyen la raíz de los pronombres independientes, están relacionados con los agentivos, -eh, y -huah, "dueño de", y el sufijo posesivo en sus modalidades -uh, -hui, -huan. Y yo creo que los prefijos de los pronombres independientes están más relacionados con los prefijos posesivos que con los prefijos sujeto. John John Sullivan, Ph.D. Profesor de lengua y cultura nahua Unidad Académica de Idiomas Universidad Autónoma de Zacatecas Director Instituto de Docencia e Investigación Etnológica de Zacatecas, A.C. Tacuba 152, int. 47 Centro Histórico Zacatecas, Zac. 98000 México Oficina: +52 (492) 925-3415 Fax: +52 (492) 925-3416 Domicilio: +52 (492) 768-6048 Celular: +52 (492) 544-5985 idiez at mac.com www.idiez.org.mx On Jan 30, 2006, at 4:10 PM, David Becraft wrote: > It propably comes from "(na) + (huatl)", clear sound, or just audible > sound in general. My opinion is not based on any research I've done, > just off the top of my head. > > Pancho > > >> From: Arnd Sölling >> Reply-To: Nahua language and culture discussion >> >> To: NAHUAT-L at LISTS.UMN.EDU >> Subject: Nahuatl Pronouns >> Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 17:33:40 +0100 >> >> Niltze, >> >> I am working on cross-dialectal linguistics of Nahuatl and have >> come to a question i could not resolve...maybe somebody can help me >> out...comparing the independent pronouns in the various dialects i >> noticed that some dialects show shortened forms like ye or yeh while >> other retain the old classical form like yehuatl...does anyone know >> the meaning of the stem -huatl or where it comes from? >> >> Thank you, >> Arnd Sölling >> >> >> --------------------------------- >> Telefonieren Sie ohne weitere Kosten mit Ihren Freunden von PC zu PC! >> Jetzt Yahoo! Messenger installieren! >> From schwallr at morris.umn.edu Tue Jan 24 14:38:24 2006 From: schwallr at morris.umn.edu (John F. Schwaller) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 08:38:24 -0600 Subject: AZTLAN list Message-ID: I would like to invite you all to join the listserv "Aztlan" as it joins its new host at FAMSI -- The Foundation for the Advancement of Mesoamerican Studies, Inc. Aztlan has been around for well over a decade, and has recently been moved to a new home at FAMSI. It is one of the oldest and most respected listservs for Mesoamerican Prehistory. Recent conversations on Aztlan cover such topics as: -The Maya Collapse (discussing the new book by Jared Diamond) -Associated Press reports on Mesoamerican Archaeology -The origins of Maya writing (discussing the new discovery of murals at the site of San Bartolo) -Apocalypto (the upcoming movie by Mel Gibson about the ancient Maya - shot completely in a Maya language) -Haley's Comet and it's influence on the Ancient Maya -The Ancient Maya Calendar (specifically, various arguments about which correlation merges it with our modern western calendar) While much of the discussion on Aztlan focuses on the Maya region, other discussions have included Nahua related topics, as well as more wide-ranging topics on North and South American pre-history. If you are interested, please visit: http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/aztlan Aztlan typically has an activity level of approximately 3-10 emails per day. This may be too many emails for the casual reader. In this case, I still suggest subscribing, but click the bubble for "daily digest" which will deliver all Aztlan messages in a single daily email (you will therefore only receive one email per day, containing all of the day's messages). John F. Schwaller Vice Chancellor for Academic Affairs and Dean 315 Behmler Hall University of Minnesota, Morris 600 E 4th Street Morris, MN 56267 320-589-6015 FAX 320-589-6399 schwallr at morris.umn.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From arnibionic at YAHOO.DE Sun Jan 29 16:33:40 2006 From: arnibionic at YAHOO.DE (=?iso-8859-1?q?Arnd=20S=F6lling?=) Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 17:33:40 +0100 Subject: Nahuatl Pronouns Message-ID: Niltze, I am working on cross-dialectal linguistics of Nahuatl and have come to a question i could not resolve...maybe somebody can help me out...comparing the independent pronouns in the various dialects i noticed that some dialects show shortened forms like ye or yeh while other retain the old classical form like yehuatl...does anyone know the meaning of the stem -huatl or where it comes from? Thank you, Arnd S?lling --------------------------------- Telefonieren Sie ohne weitere Kosten mit Ihren Freunden von PC zu PC! Jetzt Yahoo! Messenger installieren! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From magnuspharao at GMAIL.COM Sun Jan 29 18:16:07 2006 From: magnuspharao at GMAIL.COM (magnus hansen) Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 12:16:07 -0600 Subject: Nahuatl Pronouns In-Reply-To: <20060129163340.39280.qmail@web25225.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: The shortened forms yeh, neh and teh also existed in classical nahuatl according to Launey (and Carochi?) . It is also often the case in the modern dialects that there is a long and a short form and often it is concidental which one ends up in a wordlist. I seem to remember an article by Karen Dakin treating among other things the pronouns of the souther uto-aztecan languages. Any way -*huatl* is not a root, the root would be -*wa* plus the absolutive suffix -*tl*. -*wa*- is a very common affix with a variety of different meanings and functions. I think it will be very difficult to ascribe it any independent meaning in the pronouns. The article by Karen Dakin is: DAKIN, Karen. In press. El nahuatl dentro del yutoazteca sureno: algunas isoglosas gramaticales. In: Estudios linguisticos mesoamericanos, edited by Carolyn Mackay and Veronica Vazquez, Seminario de Lenguas Indigenas, Universidad Nacional Autonoma de Mexico. Magnus Pharao, University of Copenhagen On 29/01/06, Arnd S?lling wrote: > > Niltze, > > I am working on cross-dialectal linguistics of Nahuatl and have come to a > question i could not resolve...maybe somebody can help me out...comparing > the independent pronouns in the various dialects i noticed that some > dialects show shortened forms like ye or yeh while other retain the old > classical form like yehuatl...does anyone know the meaning of the stem > -huatl or where it comes from? > > Thank you, > Arnd S?lling > > ------------------------------ > Telefonieren Sie ohne weitere Kosten mit Ihren Freunden von PC zu PC! > Jetzt Yahoo! Messenger installieren! > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karttu at NANTUCKET.NET Sun Jan 29 21:05:32 2006 From: karttu at NANTUCKET.NET (Frances Karttunen) Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 16:05:32 -0500 Subject: Nahuatl Pronouns In-Reply-To: <20060129163340.39280.qmail@web25225.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > shortened forms like ye or yeh while other retain the old classical > form like yehuatl Actually the short and long forms were co-existent in 16th-century Nahuatl. From david_becraft at HOTMAIL.COM Mon Jan 30 22:10:17 2006 From: david_becraft at HOTMAIL.COM (David Becraft) Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 14:10:17 -0800 Subject: Nahuatl Pronouns In-Reply-To: <20060129163340.39280.qmail@web25225.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: It propably comes from "(na) + (huatl)", clear sound, or just audible sound in general. My opinion is not based on any research I've done, just off the top of my head. Pancho >From: Arnd S?lling >Reply-To: Nahua language and culture discussion >To: NAHUAT-L at LISTS.UMN.EDU >Subject: Nahuatl Pronouns >Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 17:33:40 +0100 > >Niltze, > > I am working on cross-dialectal linguistics of Nahuatl and have come to >a question i could not resolve...maybe somebody can help me out...comparing >the independent pronouns in the various dialects i noticed that some >dialects show shortened forms like ye or yeh while other retain the old >classical form like yehuatl...does anyone know the meaning of the stem >-huatl or where it comes from? > > Thank you, > Arnd S?lling > > >--------------------------------- >Telefonieren Sie ohne weitere Kosten mit Ihren Freunden von PC zu PC! >Jetzt Yahoo! Messenger installieren! From idiez at MAC.COM Mon Jan 30 23:14:25 2006 From: idiez at MAC.COM (idiez at MAC.COM) Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 17:14:25 -0600 Subject: Nahuatl Pronouns In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Listeros, Yo he le?do en alguna parte que los dos elementos, -eh-, y -hua-, que constituyen la ra?z de los pronombres independientes, est?n relacionados con los agentivos, -eh, y -huah, "due?o de", y el sufijo posesivo en sus modalidades -uh, -hui, -huan. Y yo creo que los prefijos de los pronombres independientes est?n m?s relacionados con los prefijos posesivos que con los prefijos sujeto. John John Sullivan, Ph.D. Profesor de lengua y cultura nahua Unidad Acad?mica de Idiomas Universidad Aut?noma de Zacatecas Director Instituto de Docencia e Investigaci?n Etnol?gica de Zacatecas, A.C. Tacuba 152, int. 47 Centro Hist?rico Zacatecas, Zac. 98000 M?xico Oficina: +52 (492) 925-3415 Fax: +52 (492) 925-3416 Domicilio: +52 (492) 768-6048 Celular: +52 (492) 544-5985 idiez at mac.com www.idiez.org.mx On Jan 30, 2006, at 4:10 PM, David Becraft wrote: > It propably comes from "(na) + (huatl)", clear sound, or just audible > sound in general. My opinion is not based on any research I've done, > just off the top of my head. > > Pancho > > >> From: Arnd S?lling >> Reply-To: Nahua language and culture discussion >> >> To: NAHUAT-L at LISTS.UMN.EDU >> Subject: Nahuatl Pronouns >> Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 17:33:40 +0100 >> >> Niltze, >> >> I am working on cross-dialectal linguistics of Nahuatl and have >> come to a question i could not resolve...maybe somebody can help me >> out...comparing the independent pronouns in the various dialects i >> noticed that some dialects show shortened forms like ye or yeh while >> other retain the old classical form like yehuatl...does anyone know >> the meaning of the stem -huatl or where it comes from? >> >> Thank you, >> Arnd S?lling >> >> >> --------------------------------- >> Telefonieren Sie ohne weitere Kosten mit Ihren Freunden von PC zu PC! >> Jetzt Yahoo! Messenger installieren! >>