From PGarcia at anselm.edu Fri Apr 6 23:41:18 2007 From: PGarcia at anselm.edu (Pablo Garcia) Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2007 19:41:18 -0400 Subject: yexanztica Message-ID: Listeros, On behalf of the New England Nahuatl Circle, I would like to get your input on the "yexanztica"... The word appears in a _Doctrina_, in a section regarding the three aspects of penitencia. The sentence "Ca yexanztica: ynic ceccan quiztica neyoltequipacholiztli" The meaning seems clear: "There are three parts. The first part....", however we would like some input on the possibilities for parsing the term "yexanztica" which, by the way, appears to be related to "quiztica"--another semantically problematic term. Gracias de antemano por sus opiniones. Saludos, Pablo Pablo García Assistant Professor Modern Languages & Literatures Saint Anselm College _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx Sat Apr 7 02:52:58 2007 From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright) Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2007 21:52:58 -0500 Subject: yexanztica Message-ID: Estimado Pablo: "Yexanztica" no es posible en náhuatl, porque no puede haber más de dos consonantes contiguas en el interior de una palabra, por las reglas de la formación de las sílabas. Parece que faltan caracteres. Creo que la hipótesis más probable para reconstruir este vocablo es "yexcaniztica": ye:xca:niztica, con las vocales largas restauradas (ye:yi - i) (y > x) + ca:n + iz + ti + ca ye:yi, número: "tres" ca:n, sufijo locativo: "donde/en/lugar de/por" iz, adverbio locativo: "aquí/desde acá/hacia acá/por acá" ti, ligadura (usada comúnmente con la posposición ca) ca, posposición: "con/con la ayuda de/de/gracias a/por/por medio de/porque" ye:xca:niztica, "aquí en tres partes" "ynic" es ini:c in + i:c in, partícula ubicua i:c, "con" ini:c, "con" "ceccan" es cecca:n cem (m > c) + ca:n cem, "uno" ca:n, sufijo locativo: "donde/en/lugar de/por" cecca:n, "en una parte" "quiztica" parece es qui:ztica (qui:za - a) + ti + ca qui:za, verbo: "salir/emerger/concluirse alguna cosa" ti, ligadura (usada comúnmente con la posposición ca) ca, posposición: "con/con la ayuda de/de/gracias a/por/por medio de/porque" qui:ztica, "por medio de la salida/surgimiento/conclusión de" "neyoltequipacholiztli" es neyo:ltequipacholiztli ne + (yo:lli - li) + tequi + (pachoa: - a:) + liztli ne, prefijo reflexivo yo:lli, sustantivo: "corazón" tequi, verbo: "cortar" pachoa:, verbo: "inclinarse" liztli, sufijo deverbal de acción, "el acto de (verbo)" neyo:ltequipacholiztli, "el acto de inclinarse partiendo el corazón (arrepentimiento)" Trataré de adivinar el significado de esta tremenda cadena de morfemas: Ca ye:xca:niztica: ini:c cecca:n qui:ztica neyo:ltequipacholiztli, Significado burdamente literal: "Aquí en tres partes: con una parte por medio del surgimiento del arrepentimiento" Significado en un castellano más natural: "Aquí hay tres partes: la primera es por el arrepentimiento". La mejor forma de verificar esto sería mediante el cotejo de este texto con otro similar, en una doctrina en lengua castellana. Saludos cordiales, David Wright -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From Amapohuani at aol.com Sat Apr 7 03:28:07 2007 From: Amapohuani at aol.com (Amapohuani at aol.com) Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2007 23:28:07 EDT Subject: yexanztica Message-ID: Estimado Pablo: Apart from David Wright's email, just a reminder to all that it is helpful to let the list know what one is citing, for example, a publication or a manuscript, title, year, page/folio, etc. That way, if some of us have the same book, or the ms has been published in a critical edition, then we can doublecheck the section it appears in, whether or not an item has been inadvertently spelled in a different way, and so on. For example, it is my experience that sometimes books have outright errors, or a ms may be a copy of something, and in the process of copying the scribe(s) can literally misinterpret the characters and make an analysis more difficult. And some books and mss have more outright errors than others. I think you have the thrust of the item, but to find the most recognizable/consultable [sorry for the invented word] constituent parts [not that you can't break them down even more] then it would look something like 'yexcan [or excan] quiztica' or 'yexcan [or excan] quizqui' or the like -- a standard statement in colonial Nahuatl doctrinas. By 'recognizable/consultable' I mean something that you can more readily look up in Molina, like these entries from Molina 2004 [the most recent version of the 1571 edition] on 36r of the NahtoSpan side: "Yexcan. en tres parts s, o lugares" [sic] followed by "Yexcan quizqui. partido o diuidido en tres partes." Good luck with your studies. Ye ixquich. Barry In a message dated 4/6/07 6:42:08 PM, PGarcia at anselm.edu writes: > Listeros, > > On behalf of the New England Nahuatl Circle, I would like to get your input > on the "yexanztica"... > > The word appears in a _Doctrina_, in a section regarding the three aspects > of penitencia. The sentence "Ca yexanztica: ynic ceccan quiztica > neyoltequipacholiztli" > The meaning seems clear: "There are three parts. The first part....", > however we would like some input on the possibilities for parsing the term > "yexanztica" which, by the way, appears to be related to "quiztica"--another > semantically problematic term. > > Gracias de antemano por sus opiniones. > > Saludos, > Pablo > ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From brokaw at buffalo.edu Sat Apr 7 22:39:38 2007 From: brokaw at buffalo.edu (brokaw at buffalo.edu) Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2007 18:39:38 -0400 Subject: yexanztica In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Barry and David, Thank you for your comments on yexanztica. By way of background, Ben Leeming, a recently converted Nahuatl enthusiast from the Boston area, sought out Pablo, recently transplanted from Indiana to New Hampshire, and me (I am on leave from Buffalo spending the year in New England) about getting together to work on a Nahuatl text. So we all got together to form what Pablo has dubbed the New England Nahuatl Circle. We started out looking at Richley Crapo's recently published edition of the Anonimo mexicano. But having an available translation wasn't as much fun, and Ben was interested in reading Pedro de Gante’s _Doctrina cristiana_, which as far as we know has never been translated. In fact, the only form we can find it in is a facsimile of the original printed edition from the sixteenth century. The passage which Pablo cited is on folio 2 verso of Gante's Doctrina. Pablo was rather modest in the way he posed the question. He makes very good use of Molina. In addition, we had already found other errors in the text, and it seemed clear to us that there was an error here as well. We even discussed the perhaps very likely possibility of a non-Nahuatl speaking printer working with a Nahuatl manuscript, the difficulties that this would inherently involve, and the kind of errors that would inevitably be introduced in such a context. We came up with a couple of theories as to what “yexanztica” was supposed to be, including the one Barry pointed out. Ultimately, given the letters that are present, it seems that there are simply some missing letters that need to be inserted: “yex[c]an [qui]ztica.” But we thought we would throw it out there to see if there might be something we were missing; or if one of our other admittedly less likely theories might prove to be viable. None of us have any previous experience with doctrinas in Nahuatl, so, Barry, your confirmation that “yexcan quiztica” is common in such texts is very helpful. By the way, in these colonial doctrinas, do they ever say "yexcan quizca" or is it always "yexcan quiztica"? Is there a pragmatic difference between these two forms? The semantic problem with "quiztica" to which Pablo referred, was not with how to translate this in a general sense, but rather how to break it down morphologically. It seemed to us that there were two possibilities: a verbal form and a nominalized form. Molina defines “mieccan quiztica,” for example, as “it divides up into many parts,” which suggests a verbal form, evidently the present progressive: quiz[a] + ti (ligature) + ca (to be); and there are other entries that confirm this verbal form. But there are also other entries such as "toquiquiztica," which I assume is formed by reduplicating the first syllable of “quiza” and means “our pores,” and cenquiztica, meaning “something whole.” In these cases, there is a formal homology with the verbal "quiztica," but with these terms it seems that the ending is morphologically different, apparently “quiz[a] + ti (ligature) + ca (nominalizer). I guess the literal meaning of this nominalized form as “something that came out” is what conveys the idea of “part”: something that has come out or protrudes from something else to which it belongs, thus distinguishing itself as a "part" of a larger whole. According to this interpretation “cenquiztica” literally means “s.t. that comes out completely or as a whole,” that is to say without distinguishing itself from anything else to which it might have inherently belonged. In the passage in question, we might be able to read the “yexcan quiztica” as a verbal form and the subsequent “quiztica” as a nominalized form. Or maybe they are both the nominalized form. Or maybe they are both verb forms. In the end, it does not really make that much of a difference for the general meaning conveyed. We just wondered if there was any way to disambiguate the morphology in any given instance. The fact that in Nahuatl you don’t necessarily need a verb seems to make it difficult in this case to determine what is going on grammatically, because there appears to be a formal homology between two grammatically different forms, one verbal and one nominalized. I wonder if this might be ambiguous even to a native Nahuatl speaker. Does anyone have any thoughts on this issue? Thanks, Galen Quoting Amapohuani at aol.com: > > --part1_c0a.13565d34.334869c7_boundary > Content-Type: text/plain; charset> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Estimado Pablo: > > Apart from David Wright's email, just a reminder to all that it is > helpful to > let the list know what one is citing, for example, a publication or a > > manuscript, title, year, page/folio, etc. That way, if some of us > have the same book, > or the ms has been published in a critical edition, then we can > doublecheck > the section it appears in, whether or not an item has been > inadvertently > spelled in a different way, and so on. > > For example, it is my experience that sometimes books have outright > errors, > or a ms may be a copy of something, and in the process of copying the > scribe(s) > can literally misinterpret the characters and make an analysis more > difficult. And some books and mss have more outright errors than > others. > > I think you have the thrust of the item, but to find the most > recognizable/consultable [sorry for the invented word] constituent > parts [not that you can't > break them down even more] then it would look something like 'yexcan > [or > excan] quiztica' or 'yexcan [or excan] quizqui' or the like -- a > standard statement > in colonial Nahuatl doctrinas. By 'recognizable/consultable' I mean > something > that you can more readily look up in Molina, like these entries from > Molina > 2004 [the most recent version of the 1571 edition] on 36r of the > NahtoSpan > side: "Yexcan. en tres parts s, o lugares" [sic] followed by "Yexcan > quizqui. > partido o diuidido en tres partes." > > Good luck with your studies. > > Ye ixquich. > Barry > > In a message dated 4/6/07 6:42:08 PM, PGarcia at anselm.edu writes: > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From Amapohuani at aol.com Sat Apr 7 23:10:59 2007 From: Amapohuani at aol.com (Amapohuani at aol.com) Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2007 19:10:59 EDT Subject: yexanztica Message-ID: Estimados Listeros: I leave most of this to the more experienced grammarians on the list, but re two points: 1), 'yexcan quiztica' seems very familiar to me, but I hesitate to say how common it is. Whenever there is a question about such things, I go through a lot of books and mss to see what is actually there, not what I think/assume is there. So I can say for sure that it looks familiar and expected, but beyond that I won't go for the moment. 2), never hurts to keep in mind that the line in early Nahuatl between verb and noun is not as strictly drawn as it is in English and Spanish [just to mention two of the languages that a lot of researchers bring to their study of Nahuatl]. So don't beat yourselves up trying to make distinctions that may prove to be more elusive than expected. *Not that you shouldn't make every effort to break down, analyze, etc.* Ye ixquich. Barry In a message dated 4/7/07 5:40:26 PM, brokaw at buffalo.edu writes: > Dear Barry and David, > Thank you for your comments on yexanztica. > By way of background, Ben Leeming, a recently converted Nahuatl > enthusiast from the Boston area, sought out Pablo, recently transplanted > from Indiana to New Hampshire, and me (I am on leave from Buffalo > spending the year in New England) about getting together to work on a > Nahuatl text. So we all got together to form what Pablo has dubbed the > New England Nahuatl Circle. We started out looking at Richley Crapo's > recently published edition of the Anonimo mexicano. But having an > available translation wasn't as much fun, and Ben was interested in > reading Pedro de Gante’s _Doctrina cristiana_, which as far as we know > has never been translated. In fact, the only form we can find it in is a > facsimile of the original printed edition from the sixteenth century. > The passage which Pablo cited is on folio 2 verso of Gante's Doctrina. > Pablo was rather modest in the way he posed the question. He makes very > good use of Molina. In addition, we had already found other errors in > the text, and it seemed clear to us that there was an error here as > well. We even discussed the perhaps very likely possibility of a > non-Nahuatl speaking printer working with a Nahuatl manuscript, the > difficulties that this would inherently involve, and the kind of errors > that would inevitably be introduced in such a context. We came up with a > couple of theories as to what “yexanztica” was supposed to be, including > the one Barry pointed out. Ultimately, given the letters that are > present, it seems that there are simply some missing letters that need > to be inserted: “yex[c]an [qui]ztica.” But we thought we would throw it > out there to see if there might be something we were missing; or if one > of our other admittedly less likely theories might prove to be viable. > None of us have any previous experience with doctrinas in Nahuatl, so, > Barry, your confirmation that “yexcan quiztica” is common in such texts > is very helpful. By the way, in these colonial doctrinas, do they ever > say "yexcan quizca" or is it always "yexcan quiztica"? Is there a > pragmatic difference between these two forms? > The semantic problem with "quiztica" to which Pablo referred, was not > with how to translate this in a general sense, but rather how to break > it down morphologically. > It seemed to us that there were two possibilities: a verbal form and a > nominalized form. Molina defines “mieccan quiztica,” for example, as “it > divides up into many parts,” which suggests a verbal form, evidently the > present progressive: quiz[a] + ti (ligature) + ca (to be); and there are > other entries that confirm this verbal form. But there are also other > entries such as "toquiquiztica," which I assume is formed by > reduplicating the first syllable of “quiza” and means “our pores,” and > cenquiztica, meaning “something whole.” In these cases, there is a > formal homology with the verbal "quiztica," but with these terms it > seems that the ending is morphologically different, apparently “quiz[a] > + ti (ligature) + ca (nominalizer). I guess the literal meaning of this > nominalized form as “something that came out” is what conveys the idea > of “part”: something that has come out or protrudes from something else > to which it belongs, thus distinguishing itself as a "part" of a larger > whole. According to this interpretation “cenquiztica” literally means > “s.t. that comes out completely or as a whole,” that is to say without > distinguishing itself from anything else to which it might have > inherently belonged. > In the passage in question, we might be able to read the “yexcan > quiztica” as a verbal form and the subsequent “quiztica” as a > nominalized form. Or maybe they are both the nominalized form. Or maybe > they are both verb forms. In the end, it does not really make that much > of a difference for the general meaning conveyed. We just wondered if > there was any way to disambiguate the morphology in any given instance. > The fact that in Nahuatl you don’t necessarily need a verb seems to make > it difficult in this case to determine what is going on grammatically, > because there appears to be a formal homology between two grammatically > different forms, one verbal and one nominalized. I wonder if this might > be ambiguous even to a native Nahuatl speaker. > Does anyone have any thoughts on this issue? > Thanks, > Galen > > > > Quoting Amapohuani at aol.com: > > > > > --part1_c0a.13565d34.334869c7_boundary > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > > Estimado Pablo: > > > > Apart from David Wright's email, just a reminder to all that it is > > helpful to > > let the list know what one is citing, for example, a publication or a > > > > manuscript, title, year, page/folio, etc. That way, if some of us > > have the same book, > > or the ms has been published in a critical edition, then we can > > doublecheck > > the section it appears in, whether or not an item has been > > inadvertently > > spelled in a different way, and so on. > > > > For example, it is my experience that sometimes books have outright > > errors, > > or a ms may be a copy of something, and in the process of copying the > > scribe(s) > > can literally misinterpret the characters and make an analysis more > > difficult. And some books and mss have more outright errors than > > others. > > > > I think you have the thrust of the item, but to find the most > > recognizable/consultable [sorry for the invented word] constituent > > parts [not that you can't > > break them down even more] then it would look something like 'yexcan > > [or > > excan] quiztica' or 'yexcan [or excan] quizqui' or the like -- a > > standard statement > > in colonial Nahuatl doctrinas. By 'recognizable/consultable' I mean > > something > > that you can more readily look up in Molina, like these entries from > > Molina > > 2004 [the most recent version of the 1571 edition] on 36r of the > > NahtoSpan > > side: "Yexcan. en tres parts s, o lugares" [sic] followed by "Yexcan > > quizqui. > > partido o diuidido en tres partes." > > > > Good luck with your studies. > > > > Ye ixquich. > > Barry > > > > In a message dated 4/6/07 6:42:08 PM, PGarcia at anselm.edu writes: > > > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From idiez at mac.com Mon Apr 9 22:21:10 2007 From: idiez at mac.com (John Sullivan, Ph.D.) Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2007 17:21:10 -0500 Subject: INALI catalogue of Mexican Indigenous Languages Message-ID: Listeros: The library of the Instituto de Docencia e Investigación Etnológica de Zacatecas, A.C. now has the "Catálogo de Lenguas Indígenas de México: Cartografía Contemporánea de sus Asentamientos Históricos", produced by the Instituto Nacional de Lenguas Indígenas. It consists of a collection of 152 maps (33.3"x21") covering 58 languages. John John Sullivan, Ph.D. Profesor de lengua y cultura nahua Universidad Autónoma de Zacatecas Instituto de Docencia e Investigación Etnológica de Zacatecas, A.C. Tacuba 152, int. 47 Centro Histórico Zacatecas, Zac. 98000 México Oficina: +52 (492) 925-3415 Fax: +52 (492) 925-3416 Domicilio: +52 (492) 768-6048 Celular: +52 (492) 118-0854 idiez at mac.com www.idiez.org.mx www.macehualli.org  -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: John Sullivan, Ph.D..vcf Type: text/directory Size: 33602 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From campbel at indiana.edu Mon Apr 9 23:30:56 2007 From: campbel at indiana.edu (Campbell, R Joe) Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2007 19:30:56 -0400 Subject: yexanztica In-Reply-To: <0A691D909A42D849BE5A4061F1EE287A0100B512@exchange01.anselm.edu> Message-ID: Pablo ihuan Nocnihuan, Since "quiquiztli" and "qui:za" seem to share something in their form and meaning, we are naturally drawn to consider whether they might share a morpheme. The basic meaning of "quiquiztli" might seem to be 'conch shell', focusing on its characteristic of having an opening. The meaning of "qui:za" requires some kind of opening -- or emerging would be difficult. However, "quiquiztli" has no long vowel, while "qui:za" *does* (both of them according to Fran's dictionary). Therefore, I think that it is unlikely that they are related morphologically. The use of "quiquiztli" (conch shell) for a trumpet is natural, involving no jump in either basic idea (i.e., opening) or function (i.e., to produce sound). "Tlequiquiztli" (fire-trumpet) is a natural extension, since both have an opening and emit sound, with the arquebus adding the pilo'n of fire. Another path of development in meaning extension is that of verbs: quiquizahui. it becomes perforated -- and from that, the transitive qui-quiquizoa. it penetrates it. Galen's mention of pores reminded me of several occurrences in FC, Book 10, one of which is toquiquiztica. our pores My current opinion is that "toquiquiztica" is based on a -ti (be or become) suffix and the -ca:n suffix. There are many examples in Book 10 (and elsewhere) of final -n dropping (particularly, in Book 10, involving both -ca:n and -ya:n). However, even though less likely, I haven't totally given up on the possibility that the -ca is really a reflex of the nominalizing -ca:, which would lead us to expect -cauh, not -ca. Perhaps the scribe was a /w/ dropper as well as an /n/ dropper. I admit, de antemano, that the second possibility is the less likely one. The verb formation "tlanquiquici", with the verbalizer -i is, as far as I know, the only use of this -i without an accompanying following suffix (Andrews, Rev, p. 591: "...verbstems that are created by adding the causative suffix a: to a stocklike base that consists of a nounstem plus i. There is no intransitive counterpart.) nino-cel-i-a I refresh myself (shoot, sprout) ah-mo-izcal-i-a he behaves indiscreetly (sprout) Example with no causative, but with a following -ya (be, become): za-za:l-i-ya it becomes sticky (za:l-li also yields za:lihui and za:loa) I include here a list of "quiquiztli" compounds and derivations, partly because they are good examples of the genius of Nahuatl morphology at work. Iztayohmeh, Joe *quiquiztli *** coyoctlequiquiztlaxoyan huei tlequiquiztli. lombarda. 55m-12 huei tlequiquiztli hueitlequiquizoani. artillero. 71m1-3 hueitlequiquiztlaza hueitlequiquiztlazqui. artillero. 71m1-3 icpatlamalintli ic motlequechia tlequiquiztli. mecha de artillero; mecha de artilero; o de arcabuzero. 71m1-15 maquiquixiliaya , quin-. they whistled with their fingers for them. b.1 f.2 matlequiquiceque. arquebusiers. b.12 f.3 matlequiquizoani. arquebusier. b.12 f.3 matlequiquiztli. arcabuz o escopeta. 55m-1 matlequiquiztli. arquebus. b.12 f.3 pitzquiquiztic. like a passage-way for blowing. b.10 f.6 quihquizauhqui. it is honeycombed. b.11 f.25 quihquizoa , qui-. it penetrates it. b.11 f.2 quihquiztic. perforated. b.11 f.22 quiquizahui , tla-. passages open up, passages form. b.11 f.26 quiquizahui. it becomes perforated. b.11 f.22 quiquizauhca , to-. our pores. b.10 f.8 quiquizauhqui. ; perforated; pierced. b.10 f.7 quiquizauhtica. by means of an outlet. b.10 f.7 quiquizo. ta¤edor assi; trompetero. 55m-19 quiquizoa quiquizoa quiquizoani. ta¤edor assi; trompetero. 55m-19 quiquizotoque. they kept sounding the shell trumpet. b.2 f.4 quiquizpil. small passageway. b.11 f.26 quiquiztic. ; full of holes; having pores; perforated; honeycombed; like a passage way; like a passage-way; like an outlet; pierced; pitted. b.11 f.10 quiquiztica , to-. our pores. b.10 f.8 quiquiztique , ti-. . b.10 f.8 quiquiztli. bozina de caracol grande; bozina de caracol; o caracol que sirue de bozina; o de trompeta. 71m1-4 quiquiztli. large seashell; long shell trumpet; trumpet; clay pipe. b.2 f.1 quiquiztontli. small passageway; small outlet. b.11 f.26 tema tlequiquiztlalli error: tlequiqtlal for tlequiqtlalli: 55m]. ceuar arcabuz o tiro. 55m-4 tema tlequiquiztlalli 71m1-6 tema tlequiquiztlalli tlequiquiztlalli. ceuar arcabuz o lombarda. 71m2-25 tempitzquiquizoa , qui-. it plasters it with its bill. b.11 f.3 tempitzquiquiztic. . b.11 f.3 tenquiquiztic. having passageway openings. b.11 f.26 tepozquiquizoani. trompeta que las ta¤e; trompetero o trompeta que las ta¤e; trompetero. 55m-19 tepozquiquizpitzani. trompeta que las ta¤e; trompetero o trompeta que las ta¤e; trompetero. 55m-19 tepozquiquiztli. sacabuche; trompeta. 55m-18 tlacoyoctlequiquiztlaxoyan. saetero o tronera. 55m-18 tlamalintli tlanquiquici. siluar la culebra. 71m1-19 tlanquiquici , ni-. I whistle through my teeth. b.10 f.6 tlanquiquici , on-. she whistles. b.11 f.5 tlanquiquici tlanquiquici tlanquiquici. it hisses; it whistles; they hiss. b.11 f.7 tlanquiquiciliztli [scribal error: printing error: tlanquiqniciliztli for tlanquiquiciliztli: 71m1]. siluo. 71m1-19 tlanquiquicini. siluador assi. 55m-18 tlanquiquicini. hisser, that which hisses. b.11 f.8 tlanquiquixiliztli. siluo. 55m-18 tlanquiquixoani. whistler. b.10 f.6 tlanquiquixoni. whistler. b.10 f.6 tlanquiquizcuica. siluar la culebra. 71m1-19 tlanquiquizcuica tlanquiquizcuica tlanquiquizcuicani. el que canta siluando. 71m2-22 tlanquiquizcuicatl. canto desta manera. 71m2-22 tlanquiquiztihui , tla-. they go whistling. b.12 f.3 tlanquiquiztli. siluo. 55m-18 tlequiquizhuia tlequiquizhuia tiro; echar o soltar tiro de^artilleria. 55m-3 tlequiquizhuia de arcabuz. 71m2-25 tlequiquizhuiani tlequiquizhuiliztli tlequiquizhuilli fue herido de tiro de arcabuz. 55m-3 tlequiquizhuiloc. he was shot by a gun. b.12 f.4 tlequiquizhuique , quin-. they shot them with their guns. b.12 f.2 tlequiquizhuiqui tlequiquizhuitihuitze , tla-. they come firing guns. b.12 f.6 tlequiquizhuizque , qui-. they will shoot him with a gun. b.12 f.6 tlequiquizicpatl tlamalintli. mecha de artillero. 71m2-25 tlequiquizo. artillero. 71m1-3 tlequiquizoani. artillero; artillero o arcabuzero. 55m-1 tlequiquiztelolotli. pelota despingarda que se tira; pelota de espingarda. 55m-15 tlequiquiztlacoyoctli. tronera. 55m-19 tlequiquiztlalcuihuayan. minero de piedra ‡ufre; minero de piedra zufre. 55m-14 tlequiquiztlalli. piedra zufre; piedra ‡ufre; poluora; sufre o piedra zufre. 55m-16 tlequiquiztlalli. gunpowder. b.12 f.5 tlequiquiztlalquixtiloyan. minero de piedra ‡ufre; minero de piedra zufre. 55m-14 tlequiquiztlaltatacoyan. minero de piedra ‡ufre; minero de piedra zufre. 55m-14 tlequiquiztlaltema tlequiquiztlaltema tlequiquiztlaltentli tlequiquiztlaltentli. cargado arcabuz. 71m1-4 tlequiquiztlaltentli &c. 71m2-24 tlequiquiztlalxoquiac. hedor de piedra zufre, o de cosa semejante. 71m2-25 tlequiquiztlalxoquiyac. hedor de piedra ‡ufre o cosa semejante. 55m-11 tlequiquiztlaza echar o soltar tiro de^artilleria; soltar tiro de artilleria. 55m-1 tlequiquiztlaza arcabuz. &c. 71m2-25 tlequiquiztlazqui. artillero; artillero o arcabuzero. 55m-1 tlequiquiztletl. fuego de poluora o de alquitran; huego de poluora o de alquitran. 71m2-25 tlequiquiztli. arcabuz o escopeta. &c; artilleria tiros; artilleria. 71m2-25 tlequiquiztli tlequiquiztli. gun; lombard gun. b.11 f.2 tlequiquizxictli. ceuadero de arzabuz o tiro; ceuadero de arcabuz o de lombarda; ceuadero de arcabuz; o de lombarda. 55m-4 tlequizquiztlazqui [scribal error: ??error: tlequizquiztlazqui for tlequiquiztlazqui; 1944 facsimile has the same error; 1555 has tlequiquiztlazqui: 71m1]. artillero. 71m1-3 tlequiztlalli sic. poluora o piedra zufre. 71m2-25 tomahuac tlequiquiztli. lombarda. 55m-12 _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From campbel at indiana.edu Mon Apr 9 23:34:13 2007 From: campbel at indiana.edu (Campbell, R Joe) Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2007 19:34:13 -0400 Subject: yexanztica In-Reply-To: <0A691D909A42D849BE5A4061F1EE287A0100B512@exchange01.anselm.edu> Message-ID: Nocnihuan, Although it isn't an entirely trustworthy procedure (but what is?), looking at parallel series of elements (particularly in a language and style such as the Nahuatl of the Florentine Codex) can be helpful in getting beyond the literal meaning of the elements. I found 39 occurrences of the word "quiztica" (which I take to be a progressive compound verb: quiz[a]-ti-ca:) and put the obviously literal ones at the bottom of this list. I put items 2, 3, 5, 6, 7, and 8 at the top to display the advantage of letting the parallel words and phrases help us (even the negative ones reinforce our perception of the meanings!). ... and the group in the middle obviously hangs together, but I didn't have anything to say about them. Apparently (I distrust the word "obviously") one meaning of "quiztica" is 'intact, pure, just the way it comes out'. quiztica$$ 2. ca oc itztica, cayatle quitlacoa, ca oc *quiztica*, ca ayacampa itzcalihui, ca oc motquitica, ca oc macitica, ayatle neneliuhqui..%% it is still keen; nothing defileth it; it is still untouched, nowhere twisted, still virgin, pure, undefiled. (b.6 f.8 p.96). && series: ca oc quiztica ca oc itztica ca oc motquitica ca oc macitica cayatle quitlacoa ca ayacampa itzcalihui ayatle neneliuhqui 3. mitoa: oc quincaquilia, quinmacuilia in tloque, nahuaque, in inchoquiz, in intlaocol, in imelcicihuiliz, in intlatlatlauhtiliz: ca nel nozo mitoa cualli in inyollo, ayatle neneliuhqui, oc chipahuac, oc *quiztica*, oc macitica, oc huel chalchihuitl, oc huel teoxihuitl:.%% it is said the lord of the near, of the nigh, yet heareth, receiveth their weeping, their sorrow, their sighs, their prayers, because, it is said, they are good of heart, undefiled, still clean, untouched, pure, still true precious green stones, still true precious turquoises. (b.6 f.9 p.114). && oc quiztica oc chipahuac oc macitica oc huel chalchihuitl oc huel teoxihuitl ayatle neneliuhqui 5. auh in yehuantin, in, teocuitlahuaque, nononcua *quiztica*, xexeliuhtica in intlachihual, in intoltecayo..%% and these goldworkers were each divided, separately classed, as to their workmanship, their artisanship. (b.9 f.5 p.69). && quiztica macitica 6. in teconeuh in ichpochtli, *quiztica*, macitica huel nelli ichpochtli.%% one's daughter: the daughter [is] untouchable, pure, a virgin. (b.10 f.1 p.2). && quiztica macitica huel nelli ... 7. chonequiztli, ahtzoyo, ahteuhyo, huel *quiztica* tepiltzin..%% [he is] a sensitive person, not unclean, not besmirched; a fortunate noble. (b.10 f.1 p.16). && chonequiztli ahtzoyo ahteuhyo 8. in cualli tochpochtzin: ca oc *quiztica*, macitica, atzoyo, ateuhyo, cualnemilice, chipahuaca yollo, tlatlacatl, tlacatl, tlacamelahuac, aeltzoyo,.%% the good maiden is yet a virgin, mature, clean, unblemished, pious, pure of heart, benign, chaste, candid, well disposed. (b.10 f.3 p.46). && oc quiztica macitica atzoyo ateuhyo ***************** 4. nican *quiztica*, nican ixtlauhtica, popouhtica in amilamayotzin, in amonayotzin inic ye achica, cemilhuitl, anquimotlamahuizalhuilia in toteucyo, in itlalticpactzinco:.%% here your old-womanliness, your motherliness is brought forth, is paid tribute, is rewarded in order that yet for a while, for a day, ye honor our lord in his world. (b.6 f.16 p.195). && 10. tentzitziquiltic: iuhquin macuilcan *quiztica*,.%% the edges [of the leaf] are serrated as if formed in five parts. (b.11 f.17 p.169). && 11. in ixiuhyo, tzitzimpitzaton in iamatlapal, ei *quiztica*,.%% its leaves are small and slender at the base; they form in threes. (b.11 f.17 p.171). && 12. ye excan *quiztica* in iamatlapal pitzactotonti, cuahuitztoton:.%% its leaves come in threes; they are small and slender, pointed at the ends. (b.11 f.17 p.176). && ******************* Literal: 1. huel itech peuhtica, huel itech *quiztica*, in quetzalcoatl in ixquich in toltecayotl, in nemachtli,.%% indeed these [crafts] started, indeed these proceeded from quetzalcoatl -- all the crafts work, the learning. (b.3 f.1 p.13). && 9. itech *quiztica* olli: ipampa ololtic, niman ye cohuatl: ipampa onca itzontecon, ihuan icuitlapil,.%% [its name] comes from olli because it is round, [and black]; then coatl, because it has its head and its tail. (b.11 f.9 p.86). && 13. inin itoca itech *quiztica* in quetzalli, ihuan itztli: ipampa in itlachializ iuhquin quetzalli, xoxoctic:.%% the name of this comes from quetzalli [quetzal feather] and itztli [obsidian], because its appearance is like a green quetzal feather. (b.11 f.22 p.222). && 14. inin itoca, itech *quiztica* in quetzalitztli, ihuan epyollotli: ipampa in achi xoxoctic ic tlachia,.%% the name of this comes from quetzalitztli [emerald green jade] and epyollotli [pearl], because it looks a little green. (b.11 f.22 p.225). && 15. zacatl, ihuan tlaxcalli, itech *quiztica* in itoca: ipampa iuhquin zacatl mohuihuicoma,.%% its name comes from ‡acatl [grass] and tlaxcalli [tortilla], because [the plant] climbs like grass. (b.11 f.23 p.240). && 16. in itoca itech *quiztica* nacaztli, ihuan colotl, quitoznequi iuhquin nacaztontli, colochtontli, copiltontli,.%% its name comes from nacaztli [ear] and colotl [hook]; that is to say, it is like a small ear, a small hook, a small miter. (b.11 f.23 p.241). && 17. in itoca itech *quiztica* tetl, ihuan cozauhqui. qn. tetl coztic, coztic tetl.%% its name comes from tetl [stone] and co‡auhqui [yellow]; that is, it is a yellow stone; yellow in the form of a stone. (b.11 f.23 p.242). && 18. in itoca itech *quiztica* tetl, ihuan tlilli: ipampa ca tetl tlacuahuac, auh tliltic, tlilpatic: auh inic itech onca tezcatl; ipampa pepetlaca..%% its name comes from tetl [rock] and tlilli [black], because it is a hard rock, and black, very black; and from tezcatl [mirror], because it glistens. (b.11 f.23 p.243). && 19. in itoca, itech *quiztica* yiauhtli, anozo yayauhqui, ihuan tlapalli, iuhquin quitoznequi yayactic, yiauhtic tlapalli,.%% its name comes from yauhtli [wormwood] or yayauhqui [dark] and tlapalli [color]. (b.11 f.24 p.244). && 20. in itoca, itech *quiztica* in quilitl, ihuan tic, quitoznequi: iuhquin quilitl,.%% its name comes from quilitl [herb] and -tic, that is, like an herb. (b.11 f.24 p.245). && 21. in itoca huitztli itech *quiztica*, ihuan tecolli: iuhquin quitoznequi huitzcuahuitl, tecoltic, camiltic..%% its name comes from uitztli [thorn] and tecolli [charcoal], as if to say carbonized, brownish brazilwood. (b.11 f.24 p.245). && 22. in itoca, itech *quiztica* cuahuitl, ihuan pachtli: yehica ca in ipachio cuahuitl, in no itto ca cuappachtli,.%% its name comes from quauitl [tree] and pachtli [spanish moss], because the spanish moss is of a tree which is also called quappachtli. (b.11 f.24 p.245). && 23. in itoca, itech *quiztica* in atl, ihuan totoca, iuhquin quitoznequi, atl totocani:.%% its name comes from atl [water] and totoca [it runs]; as if to say "running water." (b.11 f.24 p.247). && 24. in itoca, itech *quiztica* in tecuani, ihuan atl. ipampa cenca tecuayo..%% its name comes from tequani [man-eater] and atl [water], because it has many man-eating animals. (b.11 f.24 p.248). && 25. in itoca, itech *quiztica* nextli, ihuan atl: ipampa tetzahuac, ticehuac, iuhquin nextli, tlapalli.%% its name comes from nextli [ashes] and atl [water], because it is thick, chalky; like ashes is the color. (b.11 f.24 p.249). && 26. in itoca, itech *quiztica* totoli, ihuan atl: ipampa quilmach oncan imatliyan catca, in cuauhtotolme in oc tzihuactla, necuametla,.%% its name comes from totolin [bird] and atl [water], because, it is said, there was the drinking place of the wild birds, those still in the cacti, in the palms. (b.11 f.24 p.249). && 27. in itoca itech *quiztica* tetzahuitl, ihuan atl: ipampa zan iquin in quiztiuh: ihuan cenca temamauhti,.%% its name comes from tetzauitl [omen] and atl [water], because it flows only at times, and it terrifies people greatly. (b.11 f.24 p.249). && 28. in itoca itech *quiztica* in atl, ihuan meya:.%% its name comes from atl [water] and meya [it flows]. (b.11 f.24 p.249). && 29. itech *quiztica* in itoca atl, ihuan pitzahuac, quitoznequi, pitzahuaticac atoyatl,.%% its name comes from atl [water] and pitzauac [thin]; that is, a river which is narrow. (b.11 f.24 p.250). && 30. itech *quiztica* in itoca atl, ihuan tlamanalli, anozo mani:.%% its name comes from atl [water] and tlamanalli [something flat placed on the ground], or mani [it lies flat]. (b.11 f.24 p.250). && 31. in itoca itech *quiztica* in atl, ihuan totoca, quitoznequi, hualatococ tlalcoztli, xalatoctli,.%% its name comes from atl [water] and totoca [it runs]; that is, water-borne yellow soil, water-borne sand. (b.11 f.24 p.251).&& 32. in itoca itech *quiztica* in cuahuitl, ihuan tlalli:.%% its name comes from quauitl [wood] and tlalli [earth]. (b.11 f.24 p.251). && 33. itech *quiztica* in itoca tetl, ihuan zoquitl: ipampa ca tlacuahuac, tzictic, tepitztic, cuichehuac, tlilehuac, chapopotic,.%% its name comes from tetl [rock] and ‡oquitl [mud], because it is firm, gummy, hard; dark, blackish, bitumen-like. (b.11 f.24 p.252). && 34. itech *quiztica* in itoca calli, ihuan tlalli:.%% its name comes from calli [house] and tlalli [earth]. (b.11 f.24 p.252). && 35. itech *quiztica* in itoca tlalli, ihuan manqui qn. tlalli amo tliltic, amo no comoltic,.%% its name comes from tlalli [earth] and manqui [level]; that is to say, land neither hilly nor hollowed. (b.11 f.24 p.252). && 36. itech *quiztica* in itoca tlalli, ihuan tlaiztalilli, quitoznequi iztac tlalli,.%% its name comes from tlalli [earth] and tlaiztalli [something white]; that is to say, white earth. (b.11 f.24 p.254). && 37. tezontli, ihuan tlalli: itech *quiztica* in itoca,.%% its name comes from te‡ontli [porous volcanic rock] and tlalli [earth]. (b.11 f.24 p.254). && 38. comitl itech *quiztica*, ihuan tlalli: ipampa (comitl) mochihua caxitl, apaztli. etc..%% [Its name] comes from comitl [olla] and tlalli [earth], because [with it ollas] are made; bowls, basins, etc. (b.11 f.25 p.256). && 39. itech *quiztica* atl, ihuan zoquitl:.%% [its name] comes from atl [water] and ‡oquitl [mud]. (b.11 f.25 p.257). && _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From brokaw at buffalo.edu Tue Apr 10 11:46:08 2007 From: brokaw at buffalo.edu (brokaw at buffalo.edu) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 07:46:08 -0400 Subject: yexanztica Message-ID: Joe, Thanks so much. I see I failed to identify the "quiquiz" portion of "toquiquiztica" as a noun. So that shoots a big whole in the theory of "quiztica" as a nominalized form. Let me see if I can put another nail in its coffin. This means that among the attestations of "quiztica," there don't seem to be any cases of any clear-cut nominalized forms. For the theory of a nominalized "quiztica," the "toquiquiztica" was essential precisely because it would have indicated that you can use the nominalizing "ca" with the ligature "ti." The fact that this was the only case that I could find where that seemed to be happening in addition to the lack of the "uh" suffix should have clued me in, but I'm slow. One of the things that I originally considered was that there was no formal homology here, because the nominalized form would be "quizca," for which there are many attestations, and the progressive would be "quiztica." I don't seem to be able to find any cases where the nominalizing "ca! " is used with the ligature "ti" as opposed to attaching directly to the verb stem. So if that is the case, this resolves the issue nicely. Does that make sense? I would point out that the definition of "cencan quiztica" as "something whole" illustrates Barry's point about the ambiguity of nouns and verbs. In defense of masochistic morphology, though, I would just say that it seems to me that this is a pragmatic rather than a formal issue. As some of Joe's examples demonstrate, the sense of the verbal expression "quiztica" is sometimes even best rendered in translation as an adjective ("untouched") rather than a verbal phrase. Thanks again, Galen _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From schwallr at potsdam.edu Tue Apr 10 22:00:19 2007 From: schwallr at potsdam.edu (John F. Schwaller) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 17:00:19 -0500 Subject: Tepache Message-ID: In a discussion on our sister list (aztlan at lists.famsi.org) the term "tepache" came up. It is a fermented drink common in Mexico, made with pineapple. The Real Academia says it is indigenous, but I can't easily see how it might come from Nahuatl Any thoughts? John F. Schwaller President SUNY Potsdam 44 Pierrepont Ave. Potsdam, NY 13676 315-267-2100 315-267-2496 fax _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From rcrapo at hass.usu.edu Tue Apr 10 22:11:16 2007 From: rcrapo at hass.usu.edu (Richley) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 16:11:16 -0600 Subject: Tepache Message-ID: How about tepatzi? Richley ----- Original Message ----- From: "John F. Schwaller" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2007 4:00 PM Subject: [Nahuat-l] Tepache > > In a discussion on our sister list (aztlan at lists.famsi.org) the term > "tepache" came up. It is a fermented drink common in Mexico, made > with pineapple. The Real Academia says it is indigenous, but I can't > easily see how it might come from Nahuatl > > Any thoughts? > > > John F. Schwaller > President > SUNY Potsdam > 44 Pierrepont Ave. > Potsdam, NY 13676 > > 315-267-2100 > 315-267-2496 fax > > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From Amapohuani at aol.com Tue Apr 10 23:04:19 2007 From: Amapohuani at aol.com (Amapohuani at aol.com) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 19:04:19 EDT Subject: Tepache Message-ID: Estimados Listeros: Note that this item shows up on the Nahuatl side of Don Bartolomé de Alva's CONFESSIONARIO of 1634 [see the 1999 Schwaller and Sell critical edition]: p. 93, "tepach"; p. 97, "Cuix titepachtlalia" [meaning, 'Do you sell tepache?']; and p. 121, "in tepachnamacoyan huinonamacoyan" [place(s) where tepache and wine is/are sold]. Ye ixquich. Barry In a message dated 4/10/07 5:16:34 PM, rcrapo at hass.usu.edu writes: > How about tepatzi? > Richley > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John F. Schwaller" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2007 4:00 PM > Subject: [Nahuat-l] Tepache > > > > > > In a discussion on our sister list (aztlan at lists.famsi.org) the term > > "tepache" came up.  It is a fermented drink common in Mexico, made > > with pineapple.  The Real Academia says it is indigenous, but I can't > > easily see how it might come from Nahuatl > > > > Any thoughts? > > > > > > John F. Schwaller > > President > > SUNY Potsdam > > 44 Pierrepont Ave. > > Potsdam, NY  13676 > > > > 315-267-2100 > > 315-267-2496 fax > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Nahuatl mailing list > > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > > > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > > ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From dfrye at umich.edu Tue Apr 10 23:40:04 2007 From: dfrye at umich.edu (Frye, David) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 19:40:04 -0400 Subject: Tepache Message-ID: Santamaria's Diccionario de mejicanismos derives it "del azt. tepiatl, bebida de maiz," but there is no reason to assume he wasn't just making this up. (For the record, he defines tepache as a "fermented drink prepared from the juice of various plants, especially that of sugar cane and pineapple, with brown sugar or panocha... Also made from pulque, though rarely.... Originally made from maize." Santamaria cites usages as far south as Honduras, but it is basically a Mexican term.) In Barry's example, huino is clearly a Spanish loan word -- is there any reason to assume that tepach isn't a loan word as well? Could tepache have originally been a mangled misunderstanding of a Nahuatl phrase, such as "pulque" is supposed to be? David ________________________________ From: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org on behalf of Amapohuani at aol.com Sent: Tue 4/10/2007 7:04 PM To: rcrapo at hass.usu.edu; nahuatl at lists.famsi.org; schwallr at potsdam.edu Subject: Re: [Nahuat-l] Tepache Estimados Listeros: Note that this item shows up on the Nahuatl side of Don Bartolomé de Alva's CONFESSIONARIO of 1634 [see the 1999 Schwaller and Sell critical edition]: p. 93, "tepach"; p. 97, "Cuix titepachtlalia" [meaning, 'Do you sell tepache?']; and p. 121, "in tepachnamacoyan huinonamacoyan" [place(s) where tepache and wine is/are sold]. Ye ixquich. Barry In a message dated 4/10/07 5:16:34 PM, rcrapo at hass.usu.edu writes: How about tepatzi? Richley ----- Original Message ----- From: "John F. Schwaller" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2007 4:00 PM Subject: [Nahuat-l] Tepache > In a discussion on our sister list (aztlan at lists.famsi.org) the term > "tepache" came up. It is a fermented drink common in Mexico, made > with pineapple. The Real Academia says it is indigenous, but I can't > easily see how it might come from Nahuatl > > Any thoughts? > > John F. Schwaller > President > SUNY Potsdam > 44 Pierrepont Ave. > Potsdam, NY 13676 > > 315-267-2100 > 315-267-2496 fax -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From schwallr at potsdam.edu Tue Apr 10 23:40:49 2007 From: schwallr at potsdam.edu (John F. Schwaller) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 19:40:49 -0400 Subject: Tepache In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Am I embarrassed. I guess I should read my own stuff more. Nevertheless, my search of Molina didn't come up with anything, nor in Karttunen. So the point remains, is it really a Nahuatl word? In looking at the second example, it is paired with wine, and the constructions are exactly parallel. And we know that "huino" is not Nahuatl. > Estimados Listeros: > > Note that this item shows up on the Nahuatl side of Don Bartolomé de > Alva's > CONFESSIONARIO of 1634 [see the 1999 Schwaller and Sell critical edition]: > p. > 93, "tepach"; p. 97, "Cuix titepachtlalia" [meaning, 'Do you sell > tepache?']; > and p. 121, "in tepachnamacoyan huinonamacoyan" [place(s) where tepache > and > wine is/are sold]. > > Ye ixquich. > Barry > > -- John F. Schwaller President, SUNY Potsdam 44 Pierrepont Ave. Potsdam, NY 13676 schwallr at potsdam.edu _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From campbel at indiana.edu Wed Apr 11 01:06:23 2007 From: campbel at indiana.edu (Campbell, R Joe) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 21:06:23 -0400 Subject: Tepache In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I was drawing a blank on the possible origin of "tepache", but I examined some vocabulary items and the light went on. Consider the following words: nitecuatepachoa descalabrar con piedra nitepachoa apedrear a otro The answer is fairly obvious -- "tepache" is 'something for getting stoned'!! |8-) Joe p.s. My better half insists that I issue a warning that nonenepil is lodged ipan nocamaxiquipil. _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From idiez at mac.com Wed Apr 11 03:44:33 2007 From: idiez at mac.com (John Sullivan, Ph.D.) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 22:44:33 -0500 Subject: Tepache In-Reply-To: <20070410210623.g9aiq4e3c4wcgsoo@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: Listeros, The word for gabazo, the pulp that is left when you crush cane or other fruits to get out the juice, is ipachcho: i =possessor pachtli = s.t. crushed yo =relational of inherent possession. The initial te- is a problem, but I would think that the word refers to the process of the drink's preparation. John John Sullivan, Ph.D. Profesor de lengua y cultura nahua Universidad Autónoma de Zacatecas Instituto de Docencia e Investigación Etnológica de Zacatecas, A.C. Tacuba 152, int. 47 Centro Histórico Zacatecas, Zac. 98000 México Oficina: +52 (492) 925-3415 Fax: +52 (492) 925-3416 Domicilio: +52 (492) 768-6048 Celular: +52 (492) 118-0854 idiez at mac.com www.idiez.org.mx www.macehualli.org  On Apr 10, 2007, at 8:06 PM, Campbell, R Joe wrote: > > I was drawing a blank on the possible origin of "tepache", but I > examined some vocabulary items and the light went on. Consider the > following words: > > nitecuatepachoa descalabrar con piedra > nitepachoa apedrear a otro > > The answer is fairly obvious -- "tepache" is 'something for getting > stoned'!! > > |8-) > > Joe > > p.s. My better half insists that I issue a warning that nonenepil is > lodged ipan nocamaxiquipil. > > > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: John Sullivan, Ph.D..vcf Type: text/directory Size: 33602 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From k_salmon at ipinc.net Thu Apr 12 02:57:07 2007 From: k_salmon at ipinc.net (Kier Salmon) Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 19:57:07 -0700 Subject: Mother and Father Message-ID: Listeros, I work as a spanish interpreter. One of my populations is children with speech pathologies. A lot of work has gone into making sure that children of "habla español" and other languages are properly evaluated within their cultural context and language development. I was speaking to one of our people and he said that every language used "mama" and "papa" as the first syllables a child spoke. Something to do with dropping the jaw as a first sound exercise. I immediately disagreed as I had had a mixteco speaking couple with a child with delayed speech just recently and I had heard them say "Mother" and, while I couldn't remember the phoneme, I could remember that it wasn't anything like mama, which surprised me at the time. I looked up on the web (sigh, for a large library and linguistic resources at my fingertips!) and came up with the mixteco, the nahuatl and the maya (which is apparently also a Uto-Aztecan language) as Mixtec Nahuatl Maya English naná'i Iye' Na' Mama Tata Tata Taat Papa I don't know how much familiarty people might have with these... I couldn't find Cora, Huichol, or any other of the multiple languages in Mexico on the web... but the question he had was; how are they pronounced??? Any help? Thanks Kier in Portland, Oregon _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From idiez at mac.com Thu Apr 12 12:47:16 2007 From: idiez at mac.com (John Sullivan, Ph.D.) Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 07:47:16 -0500 Subject: Mother and Father In-Reply-To: <02A4CD8B-B02F-4F49-A372-34D4296D04E1@ipinc.net> Message-ID: Kier, Mother in Nahuatl is -nanan. In Wixarika (Huichol), mother is -tei, and father is -yau. John John Sullivan, Ph.D. Profesor de lengua y cultura nahua Universidad Autónoma de Zacatecas Instituto de Docencia e Investigación Etnológica de Zacatecas, A.C. Tacuba 152, int. 47 Centro Histórico Zacatecas, Zac. 98000 México Oficina: +52 (492) 925-3415 Fax: +52 (492) 925-3416 Domicilio: +52 (492) 768-6048 Celular: +52 (492) 118-0854 idiez at mac.com www.idiez.org.mx www.macehualli.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: John Sullivan, Ph.D..vcf Type: text/directory Size: 33602 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Thu Apr 12 13:00:00 2007 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 09:00:00 -0400 Subject: Mother and Father In-Reply-To: <02A4CD8B-B02F-4F49-A372-34D4296D04E1@ipinc.net> Message-ID: Kier, Mayan belongs to the Mayan language family and Nahuatl to Uto-Aztecan. Nahuatl 'mother' is /-nan/; 'father' is /-tah/. monan; amonan your mother; y'all's mother nonan; tonan my mother; our mother The diminutive (endearment) suffix -tzin often accompanies these terms. Michael McCafferty Quoting Kier Salmon : > Listeros, > I work as a spanish interpreter. One of my populations is children > with speech pathologies. A lot of work has gone into making sure > that children of "habla español" and other languages are properly > evaluated within their cultural context and language development. > I was speaking to one of our people and he said that every language > used "mama" and "papa" as the first syllables a child spoke. > Something to do with dropping the jaw as a first sound exercise. > I immediately disagreed as I had had a mixteco speaking couple with a > child with delayed speech just recently and I had heard them say > "Mother" and, while I couldn't remember the phoneme, I could remember > that it wasn't anything like mama, which surprised me at the time. > I looked up on the web (sigh, for a large library and linguistic > resources at my fingertips!) and came up with the mixteco, the > nahuatl and the maya (which is apparently also a Uto-Aztecan > language) as > > Mixtec Nahuatl Maya English > naná'i Iye' Na' Mama > Tata Tata Taat Papa > > > I don't know how much familiarty people might have with these... I > couldn't find Cora, Huichol, or any other of the multiple languages > in Mexico on the web... but the question he had was; how are they > pronounced??? Any help? > Thanks > Kier in Portland, Oregon > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From schwallr at potsdam.edu Mon Apr 23 11:26:31 2007 From: schwallr at potsdam.edu (John F. Schwaller) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 07:26:31 -0400 Subject: La otra conquista Message-ID: FORWARDED MESSAGE FROM THE PRODUCTION TEAM OF "LA OTRA CONQUISTA": ------------------------------ Hello, On May 4 "The Other Conquest (La Otra Conquista)," the powerful film by Salvador Carrasco about the Spanish conquest of Mexico will be released in select cities! This masterpiece of world cinema has captivated audiences everywhere and now American moviegoers will get to experience this moving, unforgettable movie about a clash of cultures. For More Information visit www.theotherconquest.com or www.myspace.com/theotherconquest MESSAGE FROM SALVADOR CARRASCO: "The Other Conquest" tells the story of the Aztecs’ spiritual and psychological resistance to the 1521 Spanish conquest of Mexico. The film explores the ways in which people on the receiving end of conquests, invasions, colonization, or certain kinds of "liberation", struggle to preserve their identity and beliefs in spite of military defeat. Their other conquest is a spiritual one, often attained at great personal sacrifice. The story depicted in this film is not just about Aztecs and Spaniards; it has been repeating itself throughout history, even to this day, in different shades and forms. Salvador Carrasco Writer/Director, “The Other Conquest” Santa Monica, California April 14, 2007 Reflexion del Director “La Otra Conquista” cuenta la historia de la resistencia espiritual y sicologica de los aztecas ante los efectos de la conquista espanola de Mexico. La pelÌcula explora las diferentes formas en que una civilizacion que ha sufrido una invasion, colonizacion, o cierto tipo de “liberacion”, lucha por preservar su identidad y creencias a pesar de la derrota militar. El gran reto de estos pueblos, su otra conquista, es la integridad espiritual, que a menudo conlleva un enorme sacrificio personal. Este conflicto se ha venido repitiendo en diversas formas a traves de la historia, incluso hoy en dÌa, de ahi la relevancia actual de esta pelicula. Salvador Carrasco Guionista/Director, “La Otra Conquista” Santa Monica, California 14 de abril del 2007 __________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From k_salmon at ipinc.net Wed Apr 25 15:07:45 2007 From: k_salmon at ipinc.net (Kier Salmon) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 08:07:45 -0700 Subject: Nahuatl Dictionary Message-ID: I'm packing to move and just found, hidden in the back of a shelf a book I must have picked up during my 1996 visit to México, though I have no memory of doing so. It's Rémi Siméon's "Diccionario de la lengua nahuatl o mexicana" "Redactado según los documentos impresos y manuscritos más auténticos y precedido de una introducción." translated by Josefina Oliva de Coll in 1977 (?) Since my interest is in classic nahuatl more than contemporary, does anybody know how useful this book will be to me? One of these days I am going to have all the answers. Meanwhile, the answers I have received from this list have been wonderfully full and informative. Thanks, Kier Salmon Portland OR _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx Wed Apr 25 15:50:28 2007 From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 10:50:28 -0500 Subject: Simon Message-ID: Estimado Kier: Reproduzco a continuación un extracto resumido sobre el diccionario de Siméon, tomado de una obra mía que actualmente está en preparación: El estudioso francés Rémi Siméon publicó el Dictionnaire de la langue nahuatl ou mexicaine (“Diccionario de la lengua náhuatl o mexicana”) en 1885. Hoy la edición más consultada, aún por algunos especialistas franceses, es una traducción al castellano, publicada por primera vez en 1977. El diccionario de Siméon sigue siendo útil, por incluir el contenido del vocabulario de Molina, con una organización más práctica. Además agrega palabras tomadas de otras fuentes. En lugar de la atomización (y a veces la separación en el libro) de las diferentes palabras formadas a partir de una misma raíz, como encontramos en Molina, Siméon combina estas formas en entradas únicas. Esto es particularmente útil en el caso de los sustantivos; a diferencia del vocabulario de Molina, las formas plurales y poseídas quedan integradas con las formas absolutivas correspondientes. Asimismo se registran las raíces de las palabras compuestas, aunque con frecuencia hay errores en cuanto a su identificación. El hecho de que Siméon haya agregado palabras adicionales al lexicón de Molina hace que esta obra sea útil para la búsqueda de palabras. Un defecto importante de la versión castellana del diccionario de Siméon es que las glosas han sido traducidas del castellano al francés y otra vez al castellano, perjudicando así la precisión, pues cualquier traducción implica necesariamente algún grado de distorsión. James Lockhart opina que este diccionario es útil para principiantes, pero que sigue siendo más útil el Vocabulario de Molina para los estudiosos serios de los textos escritos en el náhuatl novohispano del Centro de México. Finalmente hay que mencionar que hay problemas con el sistema ortográfico usado por Siméon. Saludos, David Wright -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From k_salmon at ipinc.net Mon Apr 30 01:15:11 2007 From: k_salmon at ipinc.net (Kier Salmon) Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2007 18:15:11 -0700 Subject: Hassig, warriors Message-ID: I'm reading "Aztec warfare" and found the following word or more probably phrase: cihuatecpanecatl tequihuau page 39 ranks of warriors I am having a trouble tracking it down... and want to understand... cihua = woman tecpan = ecatl = of course I have no idea if I've divided it up into it's component parts just right, I'm going on my Mexico language experiences which includes some (ten grains of salt) nahuatl in the modern version. But all I've found in my dictionary (nothing) and on-line is "valorous warrior" tucked in between mistress of girls and lady of something. So if it is valorous warrior, then why the cihua at the beginning? Something like cihuacoatl? Kier Salmon _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From micc2 at cox.net Mon Apr 30 01:40:42 2007 From: micc2 at cox.net (micc2) Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2007 18:40:42 -0700 Subject: Hassig, warriors In-Reply-To: <9EAF3700-9F33-4750-A665-167653848A2F@ipinc.net> Message-ID: My guess: Cihua(tl) woman tecpanecatl = person from Tecpan Tec - pan = Tekw(tli) = lord + pan = on, at = "royal house, court" The woman from the royal house...... Mario Kier Salmon wrote: > I'm reading "Aztec warfare" and found the following word or more > probably phrase: > > cihuatecpanecatl tequihuau page 39 ranks of warriors > > I am having a trouble tracking it down... and want to understand... > cihua = woman > tecpan = > ecatl = > > of course I have no idea if I've divided it up into it's component > parts just right, I'm going on my Mexico language experiences which > includes some (ten grains of salt) nahuatl in the modern version. > But all I've found in my dictionary (nothing) and on-line is > "valorous warrior" tucked in between mistress of girls and lady of > something. > So if it is valorous warrior, then why the cihua at the beginning? > Something like cihuacoatl? > > Kier Salmon > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > > > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From brokaw at buffalo.edu Mon Apr 30 11:11:18 2007 From: brokaw at buffalo.edu (brokaw at buffalo.edu) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 07:11:18 -0400 Subject: Hassig, warriors In-Reply-To: <9EAF3700-9F33-4750-A665-167653848A2F@ipinc.net> Message-ID: Does Hassig give you the context in which this phrase appears? I could be wrong, but it looks to me like what this says is "warriors who are from Cihuatecpan" or a little more literally "Cihuatecpan warriors." Galen Quoting Kier Salmon : > I'm reading "Aztec warfare" and found the following word or more > probably phrase: > > cihuatecpanecatl tequihuau page 39 ranks of warriors > > I am having a trouble tracking it down... and want to understand... > cihua = woman > tecpan = > ecatl = > > of course I have no idea if I've divided it up into it's component > parts just right, I'm going on my Mexico language experiences which > > includes some (ten grains of salt) nahuatl in the modern version. > But all I've found in my dictionary (nothing) and on-line is > "valorous warrior" tucked in between mistress of girls and lady of > something. > So if it is valorous warrior, then why the cihua at the beginning? > > Something like cihuacoatl? > > Kier Salmon > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > > > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Mon Apr 30 12:09:14 2007 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 08:09:14 -0400 Subject: Hassig, warriors In-Reply-To: <1177931478.4635ced661234@mail2.buffalo.edu> Message-ID: Right, Galen. That was my first thought. This sounds like the feminine form of an ethnonym. The context definitely needs exploration before a final translation can be given. But I'd put my money on the ethnonym horse. However, there is another point. I don't have my files with me, but, if you were to ask me how to say "woman from the royal house," I would have said "tecpancihuatl". However, I did like Mario's parsing of the term, including the instructive spelling tekwtli. In other words, as a direct response to Kier, who had in his email mentioned the introductory nature of his understanding of Nahuatl, Mario's spelling of "lord" is instructive as it reflects the actual pronunciation of the term better than the historical "teuctli". Michael Quoting brokaw at buffalo.edu: > Does Hassig give you the context in which this phrase appears? > I could be wrong, but it looks to me like what this says is "warriors > who are from Cihuatecpan" or a little more literally "Cihuatecpan warriors." > > Galen > > > Quoting Kier Salmon : > >> I'm reading "Aztec warfare" and found the following word or more >> probably phrase: >> >> cihuatecpanecatl tequihuau page 39 ranks of warriors >> >> I am having a trouble tracking it down... and want to understand... >> cihua = woman >> tecpan = >> ecatl = >> >> of course I have no idea if I've divided it up into it's component >> parts just right, I'm going on my Mexico language experiences which >> >> includes some (ten grains of salt) nahuatl in the modern version. >> But all I've found in my dictionary (nothing) and on-line is >> "valorous warrior" tucked in between mistress of girls and lady of >> something. >> So if it is valorous warrior, then why the cihua at the beginning? >> >> Something like cihuacoatl? >> >> Kier Salmon >> _______________________________________________ >> Nahuatl mailing list >> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org >> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From carlossn at ghis.ucm.es Mon Apr 30 15:38:53 2007 From: carlossn at ghis.ucm.es (Carlos Santamarina Novillo) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 17:38:53 +0200 Subject: cihuatecpanecatl Message-ID: "Cioatecpanecatl" (Sahagún 1990, libro 8º, cap. XXI: 607) es uno de los títulos de la jerarquía militar mexica. Se trata pues de un cargo, cuyo origen probablemente es gentilicio (procedente de un lugar llamado Tecpan) o quizá de un antropónimo (Tecpanecatl también aparece como nombre de persona: Sahagún 1990, libro 12º, cap. XXXVII: 995). Lo que no parece probable es que el origen del término aluda a "gente del palacio", pues -ecatl es la forma de sufijo gentilicio asociada al sufijo toponímico -pan, así que muy probablemente se trata de un gentilicio asociado a un topónimo Tecpan (muy usual). En relación al gentilicio "tepanecatl / tecpanecatl" escribí un artículo accesible en la red: http://www.ucm.es/BUCM/revistasBUC/portal/abrir.php?url=http://www.ucm.es/BUCM/revistas/ghi/05566533/articulos/REAA0606120061A.PDF SANTAMARINA NOVILLO, Carlos 2006 "Los azteca-tepaneca: en torno a sus orígenes y gentilicio". Revista Española de Antropología Americana 36 nº 1: 63-83, Universidad Complutense de Madrid. Saludos... ------------------------------------------- Carlos Santamarina Novillo --- Profesor Asociado Dpto. Hª de América II (Antropología de América) Despacho 12, 6ª planta Facultad de Geografía e Historia Universidad Complutense de Madrid 28040 Madrid (España) Tel. (34)-91-394-5789 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From sylvia at famsi.org Mon Apr 30 15:42:29 2007 From: sylvia at famsi.org (sylvia at famsi.org) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 11:42:29 -0400 Subject: Grantee reports--Mayapan, Middle Balsas, Balsas River Valley, San Lorenzo Message-ID: Hello Mesoamericanists, Newest grantee final reports at FAMSI website are: Mayapan's Effigy Censers: Iconography, Context, and External Connections (2005) by Susan Milbrath. http://www.famsi.org/reports/05025/index.html Middle Balsas Project: An Investigation of Pottery Functionality and Chronology (2006) by Jennifer Meanwell. http://www.famsi.org/reports/06021/index.html Nahuatl Cultural Encyclopedia: Botany and Zoology, Balsas River, Guerrero (2004) by Jonathan D. Amith. http://www.famsi.org/reports/03049/index.html Early and Middle Formative: San Lorenzo, Veracruz, Mexico (2001) by Anthony A. Vega. http://www.famsi.org/reports/00103/index.html Saludos, Sylvia Perrine, Archivist Foundation for the Advancement of Mesoamerican Studies, Inc. http://www.famsi.org/index.html _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From karttu at nantucket.net Mon Apr 30 15:53:50 2007 From: karttu at nantucket.net (Frances Karttunen) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 11:53:50 -0400 Subject: cihuatecpanecatl Message-ID: On the other hand, There is a verb tecpana which, when it takes takes the nonspecific object prefix te-, means to put people into order, line them up. A synonym is te-tecpantlalia. Replacing a locative suffix with -eca-tl yields the sense of 'person from…' For example: Tepoztlan is a place; a person from Tepoztlan is a Tepoztlanecatl. _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From idiez at mac.com Mon Apr 30 17:17:16 2007 From: idiez at mac.com (John Sullivan, Ph.D.) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 12:17:16 -0500 Subject: a question for FAMSI Message-ID: Dear listeros and FAMSI, A few years ago I contacted FAMSI concerning a the possiblity of funding for a project of mine. I was told politely but firmly that FAMSI was only interested in the visual aspectos older indigenous culture, and that if I submitted a proyect involving living indians and/or language, I would be wasting my time. I would like to know if FAMSI has recently instituted a policy change regarding it's interests and the types of projects it will be funding. John John Sullivan, Ph.D. Professor of Nahua language and culture Universidad Autónoma de Zacatecas Zacatecas Institute of Teaching and Research in Ethnology Tacuba 152, int. 47 Centro Histórico Zacatecas, Zac. 98000 Mexico Work: +52 (492) 925-3415 Fax: +52 (492) 925-3416 Home: +52 (492) 768-6048 Mobile: +52 (492) 118-0854 idiez at mac.com www.idiez.org.mx www.macehualli.org  -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: John Sullivan, Ph.D..vcf Type: text/directory Size: 33602 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From PGarcia at anselm.edu Fri Apr 6 23:41:18 2007 From: PGarcia at anselm.edu (Pablo Garcia) Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2007 19:41:18 -0400 Subject: yexanztica Message-ID: Listeros, On behalf of the New England Nahuatl Circle, I would like to get your input on the "yexanztica"... The word appears in a _Doctrina_, in a section regarding the three aspects of penitencia. The sentence "Ca yexanztica: ynic ceccan quiztica neyoltequipacholiztli" The meaning seems clear: "There are three parts. The first part....", however we would like some input on the possibilities for parsing the term "yexanztica" which, by the way, appears to be related to "quiztica"--another semantically problematic term. Gracias de antemano por sus opiniones. Saludos, Pablo Pablo Garc?a Assistant Professor Modern Languages & Literatures Saint Anselm College _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx Sat Apr 7 02:52:58 2007 From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright) Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2007 21:52:58 -0500 Subject: yexanztica Message-ID: Estimado Pablo: "Yexanztica" no es posible en n?huatl, porque no puede haber m?s de dos consonantes contiguas en el interior de una palabra, por las reglas de la formaci?n de las s?labas. Parece que faltan caracteres. Creo que la hip?tesis m?s probable para reconstruir este vocablo es "yexcaniztica": ye:xca:niztica, con las vocales largas restauradas (ye:yi - i) (y > x) + ca:n + iz + ti + ca ye:yi, n?mero: "tres" ca:n, sufijo locativo: "donde/en/lugar de/por" iz, adverbio locativo: "aqu?/desde ac?/hacia ac?/por ac?" ti, ligadura (usada com?nmente con la posposici?n ca) ca, posposici?n: "con/con la ayuda de/de/gracias a/por/por medio de/porque" ye:xca:niztica, "aqu? en tres partes" "ynic" es ini:c in + i:c in, part?cula ubicua i:c, "con" ini:c, "con" "ceccan" es cecca:n cem (m > c) + ca:n cem, "uno" ca:n, sufijo locativo: "donde/en/lugar de/por" cecca:n, "en una parte" "quiztica" parece es qui:ztica (qui:za - a) + ti + ca qui:za, verbo: "salir/emerger/concluirse alguna cosa" ti, ligadura (usada com?nmente con la posposici?n ca) ca, posposici?n: "con/con la ayuda de/de/gracias a/por/por medio de/porque" qui:ztica, "por medio de la salida/surgimiento/conclusi?n de" "neyoltequipacholiztli" es neyo:ltequipacholiztli ne + (yo:lli - li) + tequi + (pachoa: - a:) + liztli ne, prefijo reflexivo yo:lli, sustantivo: "coraz?n" tequi, verbo: "cortar" pachoa:, verbo: "inclinarse" liztli, sufijo deverbal de acci?n, "el acto de (verbo)" neyo:ltequipacholiztli, "el acto de inclinarse partiendo el coraz?n (arrepentimiento)" Tratar? de adivinar el significado de esta tremenda cadena de morfemas: Ca ye:xca:niztica: ini:c cecca:n qui:ztica neyo:ltequipacholiztli, Significado burdamente literal: "Aqu? en tres partes: con una parte por medio del surgimiento del arrepentimiento" Significado en un castellano m?s natural: "Aqu? hay tres partes: la primera es por el arrepentimiento". La mejor forma de verificar esto ser?a mediante el cotejo de este texto con otro similar, en una doctrina en lengua castellana. Saludos cordiales, David Wright -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From Amapohuani at aol.com Sat Apr 7 03:28:07 2007 From: Amapohuani at aol.com (Amapohuani at aol.com) Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2007 23:28:07 EDT Subject: yexanztica Message-ID: Estimado Pablo: Apart from David Wright's email, just a reminder to all that it is helpful to let the list know what one is citing, for example, a publication or a manuscript, title, year, page/folio, etc. That way, if some of us have the same book, or the ms has been published in a critical edition, then we can doublecheck the section it appears in, whether or not an item has been inadvertently spelled in a different way, and so on. For example, it is my experience that sometimes books have outright errors, or a ms may be a copy of something, and in the process of copying the scribe(s) can literally misinterpret the characters and make an analysis more difficult. And some books and mss have more outright errors than others. I think you have the thrust of the item, but to find the most recognizable/consultable [sorry for the invented word] constituent parts [not that you can't break them down even more] then it would look something like 'yexcan [or excan] quiztica' or 'yexcan [or excan] quizqui' or the like -- a standard statement in colonial Nahuatl doctrinas. By 'recognizable/consultable' I mean something that you can more readily look up in Molina, like these entries from Molina 2004 [the most recent version of the 1571 edition] on 36r of the NahtoSpan side: "Yexcan. en tres parts s, o lugares" [sic] followed by "Yexcan quizqui. partido o diuidido en tres partes." Good luck with your studies. Ye ixquich. Barry In a message dated 4/6/07 6:42:08 PM, PGarcia at anselm.edu writes: > Listeros, > > On behalf of the New England Nahuatl Circle, I would like to get your input > on the "yexanztica"... > > The word appears in a _Doctrina_, in a section regarding the three aspects > of penitencia. The sentence "Ca yexanztica: ynic ceccan quiztica > neyoltequipacholiztli" > The meaning seems clear: "There are three parts. The first part....", > however we would like some input on the possibilities for parsing the term > "yexanztica" which, by the way, appears to be related to "quiztica"--another > semantically problematic term. > > Gracias de antemano por sus opiniones. > > Saludos, > Pablo > ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From brokaw at buffalo.edu Sat Apr 7 22:39:38 2007 From: brokaw at buffalo.edu (brokaw at buffalo.edu) Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2007 18:39:38 -0400 Subject: yexanztica In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Barry and David, Thank you for your comments on yexanztica. By way of background, Ben Leeming, a recently converted Nahuatl enthusiast from the Boston area, sought out Pablo, recently transplanted from Indiana to New Hampshire, and me (I am on leave from Buffalo spending the year in New England) about getting together to work on a Nahuatl text. So we all got together to form what Pablo has dubbed the New England Nahuatl Circle. We started out looking at Richley Crapo's recently published edition of the Anonimo mexicano. But having an available translation wasn't as much fun, and Ben was interested in reading Pedro de Gante?s _Doctrina cristiana_, which as far as we know has never been translated. In fact, the only form we can find it in is a facsimile of the original printed edition from the sixteenth century. The passage which Pablo cited is on folio 2 verso of Gante's Doctrina. Pablo was rather modest in the way he posed the question. He makes very good use of Molina. In addition, we had already found other errors in the text, and it seemed clear to us that there was an error here as well. We even discussed the perhaps very likely possibility of a non-Nahuatl speaking printer working with a Nahuatl manuscript, the difficulties that this would inherently involve, and the kind of errors that would inevitably be introduced in such a context. We came up with a couple of theories as to what ?yexanztica? was supposed to be, including the one Barry pointed out. Ultimately, given the letters that are present, it seems that there are simply some missing letters that need to be inserted: ?yex[c]an [qui]ztica.? But we thought we would throw it out there to see if there might be something we were missing; or if one of our other admittedly less likely theories might prove to be viable. None of us have any previous experience with doctrinas in Nahuatl, so, Barry, your confirmation that ?yexcan quiztica? is common in such texts is very helpful. By the way, in these colonial doctrinas, do they ever say "yexcan quizca" or is it always "yexcan quiztica"? Is there a pragmatic difference between these two forms? The semantic problem with "quiztica" to which Pablo referred, was not with how to translate this in a general sense, but rather how to break it down morphologically. It seemed to us that there were two possibilities: a verbal form and a nominalized form. Molina defines ?mieccan quiztica,? for example, as ?it divides up into many parts,? which suggests a verbal form, evidently the present progressive: quiz[a] + ti (ligature) + ca (to be); and there are other entries that confirm this verbal form. But there are also other entries such as "toquiquiztica," which I assume is formed by reduplicating the first syllable of ?quiza? and means ?our pores,? and cenquiztica, meaning ?something whole.? In these cases, there is a formal homology with the verbal "quiztica," but with these terms it seems that the ending is morphologically different, apparently ?quiz[a] + ti (ligature) + ca (nominalizer). I guess the literal meaning of this nominalized form as ?something that came out? is what conveys the idea of ?part?: something that has come out or protrudes from something else to which it belongs, thus distinguishing itself as a "part" of a larger whole. According to this interpretation ?cenquiztica? literally means ?s.t. that comes out completely or as a whole,? that is to say without distinguishing itself from anything else to which it might have inherently belonged. In the passage in question, we might be able to read the ?yexcan quiztica? as a verbal form and the subsequent ?quiztica? as a nominalized form. Or maybe they are both the nominalized form. Or maybe they are both verb forms. In the end, it does not really make that much of a difference for the general meaning conveyed. We just wondered if there was any way to disambiguate the morphology in any given instance. The fact that in Nahuatl you don?t necessarily need a verb seems to make it difficult in this case to determine what is going on grammatically, because there appears to be a formal homology between two grammatically different forms, one verbal and one nominalized. I wonder if this might be ambiguous even to a native Nahuatl speaker. Does anyone have any thoughts on this issue? Thanks, Galen Quoting Amapohuani at aol.com: > > --part1_c0a.13565d34.334869c7_boundary > Content-Type: text/plain; charset> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Estimado Pablo: > > Apart from David Wright's email, just a reminder to all that it is > helpful to > let the list know what one is citing, for example, a publication or a > > manuscript, title, year, page/folio, etc. That way, if some of us > have the same book, > or the ms has been published in a critical edition, then we can > doublecheck > the section it appears in, whether or not an item has been > inadvertently > spelled in a different way, and so on. > > For example, it is my experience that sometimes books have outright > errors, > or a ms may be a copy of something, and in the process of copying the > scribe(s) > can literally misinterpret the characters and make an analysis more > difficult. And some books and mss have more outright errors than > others. > > I think you have the thrust of the item, but to find the most > recognizable/consultable [sorry for the invented word] constituent > parts [not that you can't > break them down even more] then it would look something like 'yexcan > [or > excan] quiztica' or 'yexcan [or excan] quizqui' or the like -- a > standard statement > in colonial Nahuatl doctrinas. By 'recognizable/consultable' I mean > something > that you can more readily look up in Molina, like these entries from > Molina > 2004 [the most recent version of the 1571 edition] on 36r of the > NahtoSpan > side: "Yexcan. en tres parts s, o lugares" [sic] followed by "Yexcan > quizqui. > partido o diuidido en tres partes." > > Good luck with your studies. > > Ye ixquich. > Barry > > In a message dated 4/6/07 6:42:08 PM, PGarcia at anselm.edu writes: > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From Amapohuani at aol.com Sat Apr 7 23:10:59 2007 From: Amapohuani at aol.com (Amapohuani at aol.com) Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2007 19:10:59 EDT Subject: yexanztica Message-ID: Estimados Listeros: I leave most of this to the more experienced grammarians on the list, but re two points: 1), 'yexcan quiztica' seems very familiar to me, but I hesitate to say how common it is. Whenever there is a question about such things, I go through a lot of books and mss to see what is actually there, not what I think/assume is there. So I can say for sure that it looks familiar and expected, but beyond that I won't go for the moment. 2), never hurts to keep in mind that the line in early Nahuatl between verb and noun is not as strictly drawn as it is in English and Spanish [just to mention two of the languages that a lot of researchers bring to their study of Nahuatl]. So don't beat yourselves up trying to make distinctions that may prove to be more elusive than expected. *Not that you shouldn't make every effort to break down, analyze, etc.* Ye ixquich. Barry In a message dated 4/7/07 5:40:26 PM, brokaw at buffalo.edu writes: > Dear Barry and David, > Thank you for your comments on yexanztica. > By way of background, Ben Leeming, a recently converted Nahuatl > enthusiast from the Boston area, sought out Pablo, recently transplanted > from Indiana to New Hampshire, and me (I am on leave from Buffalo > spending the year in New England) about getting together to work on a > Nahuatl text. So we all got together to form what Pablo has dubbed the > New England Nahuatl Circle. We started out looking at Richley Crapo's > recently published edition of the Anonimo mexicano. But having an > available translation wasn't as much fun, and Ben was interested in > reading Pedro de Gante?s _Doctrina cristiana_, which as far as we know > has never been translated. In fact, the only form we can find it in is a > facsimile of the original printed edition from the sixteenth century. > The passage which Pablo cited is on folio 2 verso of Gante's Doctrina. > Pablo was rather modest in the way he posed the question. He makes very > good use of Molina. In addition, we had already found other errors in > the text, and it seemed clear to us that there was an error here as > well. We even discussed the perhaps very likely possibility of a > non-Nahuatl speaking printer working with a Nahuatl manuscript, the > difficulties that this would inherently involve, and the kind of errors > that would inevitably be introduced in such a context. We came up with a > couple of theories as to what ?yexanztica? was supposed to be, including > the one Barry pointed out. Ultimately, given the letters that are > present, it seems that there are simply some missing letters that need > to be inserted: ?yex[c]an [qui]ztica.? But we thought we would throw it > out there to see if there might be something we were missing; or if one > of our other admittedly less likely theories might prove to be viable. > None of us have any previous experience with doctrinas in Nahuatl, so, > Barry, your confirmation that ?yexcan quiztica? is common in such texts > is very helpful. By the way, in these colonial doctrinas, do they ever > say "yexcan quizca" or is it always "yexcan quiztica"? Is there a > pragmatic difference between these two forms? > The semantic problem with "quiztica" to which Pablo referred, was not > with how to translate this in a general sense, but rather how to break > it down morphologically. > It seemed to us that there were two possibilities: a verbal form and a > nominalized form. Molina defines ?mieccan quiztica,? for example, as ?it > divides up into many parts,? which suggests a verbal form, evidently the > present progressive: quiz[a] + ti (ligature) + ca (to be); and there are > other entries that confirm this verbal form. But there are also other > entries such as "toquiquiztica," which I assume is formed by > reduplicating the first syllable of ?quiza? and means ?our pores,? and > cenquiztica, meaning ?something whole.? In these cases, there is a > formal homology with the verbal "quiztica," but with these terms it > seems that the ending is morphologically different, apparently ?quiz[a] > + ti (ligature) + ca (nominalizer). I guess the literal meaning of this > nominalized form as ?something that came out? is what conveys the idea > of ?part?: something that has come out or protrudes from something else > to which it belongs, thus distinguishing itself as a "part" of a larger > whole. According to this interpretation ?cenquiztica? literally means > ?s.t. that comes out completely or as a whole,? that is to say without > distinguishing itself from anything else to which it might have > inherently belonged. > In the passage in question, we might be able to read the ?yexcan > quiztica? as a verbal form and the subsequent ?quiztica? as a > nominalized form. Or maybe they are both the nominalized form. Or maybe > they are both verb forms. In the end, it does not really make that much > of a difference for the general meaning conveyed. We just wondered if > there was any way to disambiguate the morphology in any given instance. > The fact that in Nahuatl you don?t necessarily need a verb seems to make > it difficult in this case to determine what is going on grammatically, > because there appears to be a formal homology between two grammatically > different forms, one verbal and one nominalized. I wonder if this might > be ambiguous even to a native Nahuatl speaker. > Does anyone have any thoughts on this issue? > Thanks, > Galen > > > > Quoting Amapohuani at aol.com: > > > > > --part1_c0a.13565d34.334869c7_boundary > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > > Estimado Pablo: > > > > Apart from David Wright's email, just a reminder to all that it is > > helpful to > > let the list know what one is citing, for example, a publication or a > > > > manuscript, title, year, page/folio, etc. That way, if some of us > > have the same book, > > or the ms has been published in a critical edition, then we can > > doublecheck > > the section it appears in, whether or not an item has been > > inadvertently > > spelled in a different way, and so on. > > > > For example, it is my experience that sometimes books have outright > > errors, > > or a ms may be a copy of something, and in the process of copying the > > scribe(s) > > can literally misinterpret the characters and make an analysis more > > difficult. And some books and mss have more outright errors than > > others. > > > > I think you have the thrust of the item, but to find the most > > recognizable/consultable [sorry for the invented word] constituent > > parts [not that you can't > > break them down even more] then it would look something like 'yexcan > > [or > > excan] quiztica' or 'yexcan [or excan] quizqui' or the like -- a > > standard statement > > in colonial Nahuatl doctrinas. By 'recognizable/consultable' I mean > > something > > that you can more readily look up in Molina, like these entries from > > Molina > > 2004 [the most recent version of the 1571 edition] on 36r of the > > NahtoSpan > > side: "Yexcan. en tres parts s, o lugares" [sic] followed by "Yexcan > > quizqui. > > partido o diuidido en tres partes." > > > > Good luck with your studies. > > > > Ye ixquich. > > Barry > > > > In a message dated 4/6/07 6:42:08 PM, PGarcia at anselm.edu writes: > > > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From idiez at mac.com Mon Apr 9 22:21:10 2007 From: idiez at mac.com (John Sullivan, Ph.D.) Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2007 17:21:10 -0500 Subject: INALI catalogue of Mexican Indigenous Languages Message-ID: Listeros: The library of the Instituto de Docencia e Investigaci?n Etnol?gica de Zacatecas, A.C. now has the "Cat?logo de Lenguas Ind?genas de M?xico: Cartograf?a Contempor?nea de sus Asentamientos Hist?ricos", produced by the Instituto Nacional de Lenguas Ind?genas. It consists of a collection of 152 maps (33.3"x21") covering 58 languages. John John Sullivan, Ph.D. Profesor de lengua y cultura nahua Universidad Aut?noma de Zacatecas Instituto de Docencia e Investigaci?n Etnol?gica de Zacatecas, A.C. Tacuba 152, int. 47 Centro Hist?rico Zacatecas, Zac. 98000 M?xico Oficina: +52 (492) 925-3415 Fax: +52 (492) 925-3416 Domicilio: +52 (492) 768-6048 Celular: +52 (492) 118-0854 idiez at mac.com www.idiez.org.mx www.macehualli.org ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: John Sullivan, Ph.D..vcf Type: text/directory Size: 33602 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From campbel at indiana.edu Mon Apr 9 23:30:56 2007 From: campbel at indiana.edu (Campbell, R Joe) Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2007 19:30:56 -0400 Subject: yexanztica In-Reply-To: <0A691D909A42D849BE5A4061F1EE287A0100B512@exchange01.anselm.edu> Message-ID: Pablo ihuan Nocnihuan, Since "quiquiztli" and "qui:za" seem to share something in their form and meaning, we are naturally drawn to consider whether they might share a morpheme. The basic meaning of "quiquiztli" might seem to be 'conch shell', focusing on its characteristic of having an opening. The meaning of "qui:za" requires some kind of opening -- or emerging would be difficult. However, "quiquiztli" has no long vowel, while "qui:za" *does* (both of them according to Fran's dictionary). Therefore, I think that it is unlikely that they are related morphologically. The use of "quiquiztli" (conch shell) for a trumpet is natural, involving no jump in either basic idea (i.e., opening) or function (i.e., to produce sound). "Tlequiquiztli" (fire-trumpet) is a natural extension, since both have an opening and emit sound, with the arquebus adding the pilo'n of fire. Another path of development in meaning extension is that of verbs: quiquizahui. it becomes perforated -- and from that, the transitive qui-quiquizoa. it penetrates it. Galen's mention of pores reminded me of several occurrences in FC, Book 10, one of which is toquiquiztica. our pores My current opinion is that "toquiquiztica" is based on a -ti (be or become) suffix and the -ca:n suffix. There are many examples in Book 10 (and elsewhere) of final -n dropping (particularly, in Book 10, involving both -ca:n and -ya:n). However, even though less likely, I haven't totally given up on the possibility that the -ca is really a reflex of the nominalizing -ca:, which would lead us to expect -cauh, not -ca. Perhaps the scribe was a /w/ dropper as well as an /n/ dropper. I admit, de antemano, that the second possibility is the less likely one. The verb formation "tlanquiquici", with the verbalizer -i is, as far as I know, the only use of this -i without an accompanying following suffix (Andrews, Rev, p. 591: "...verbstems that are created by adding the causative suffix a: to a stocklike base that consists of a nounstem plus i. There is no intransitive counterpart.) nino-cel-i-a I refresh myself (shoot, sprout) ah-mo-izcal-i-a he behaves indiscreetly (sprout) Example with no causative, but with a following -ya (be, become): za-za:l-i-ya it becomes sticky (za:l-li also yields za:lihui and za:loa) I include here a list of "quiquiztli" compounds and derivations, partly because they are good examples of the genius of Nahuatl morphology at work. Iztayohmeh, Joe *quiquiztli *** coyoctlequiquiztlaxoyan huei tlequiquiztli. lombarda. 55m-12 huei tlequiquiztli hueitlequiquizoani. artillero. 71m1-3 hueitlequiquiztlaza hueitlequiquiztlazqui. artillero. 71m1-3 icpatlamalintli ic motlequechia tlequiquiztli. mecha de artillero; mecha de artilero; o de arcabuzero. 71m1-15 maquiquixiliaya , quin-. they whistled with their fingers for them. b.1 f.2 matlequiquiceque. arquebusiers. b.12 f.3 matlequiquizoani. arquebusier. b.12 f.3 matlequiquiztli. arcabuz o escopeta. 55m-1 matlequiquiztli. arquebus. b.12 f.3 pitzquiquiztic. like a passage-way for blowing. b.10 f.6 quihquizauhqui. it is honeycombed. b.11 f.25 quihquizoa , qui-. it penetrates it. b.11 f.2 quihquiztic. perforated. b.11 f.22 quiquizahui , tla-. passages open up, passages form. b.11 f.26 quiquizahui. it becomes perforated. b.11 f.22 quiquizauhca , to-. our pores. b.10 f.8 quiquizauhqui. ; perforated; pierced. b.10 f.7 quiquizauhtica. by means of an outlet. b.10 f.7 quiquizo. ta?edor assi; trompetero. 55m-19 quiquizoa quiquizoa quiquizoani. ta?edor assi; trompetero. 55m-19 quiquizotoque. they kept sounding the shell trumpet. b.2 f.4 quiquizpil. small passageway. b.11 f.26 quiquiztic. ; full of holes; having pores; perforated; honeycombed; like a passage way; like a passage-way; like an outlet; pierced; pitted. b.11 f.10 quiquiztica , to-. our pores. b.10 f.8 quiquiztique , ti-. . b.10 f.8 quiquiztli. bozina de caracol grande; bozina de caracol; o caracol que sirue de bozina; o de trompeta. 71m1-4 quiquiztli. large seashell; long shell trumpet; trumpet; clay pipe. b.2 f.1 quiquiztontli. small passageway; small outlet. b.11 f.26 tema tlequiquiztlalli error: tlequiqtlal for tlequiqtlalli: 55m]. ceuar arcabuz o tiro. 55m-4 tema tlequiquiztlalli 71m1-6 tema tlequiquiztlalli tlequiquiztlalli. ceuar arcabuz o lombarda. 71m2-25 tempitzquiquizoa , qui-. it plasters it with its bill. b.11 f.3 tempitzquiquiztic. . b.11 f.3 tenquiquiztic. having passageway openings. b.11 f.26 tepozquiquizoani. trompeta que las ta?e; trompetero o trompeta que las ta?e; trompetero. 55m-19 tepozquiquizpitzani. trompeta que las ta?e; trompetero o trompeta que las ta?e; trompetero. 55m-19 tepozquiquiztli. sacabuche; trompeta. 55m-18 tlacoyoctlequiquiztlaxoyan. saetero o tronera. 55m-18 tlamalintli tlanquiquici. siluar la culebra. 71m1-19 tlanquiquici , ni-. I whistle through my teeth. b.10 f.6 tlanquiquici , on-. she whistles. b.11 f.5 tlanquiquici tlanquiquici tlanquiquici. it hisses; it whistles; they hiss. b.11 f.7 tlanquiquiciliztli [scribal error: printing error: tlanquiqniciliztli for tlanquiquiciliztli: 71m1]. siluo. 71m1-19 tlanquiquicini. siluador assi. 55m-18 tlanquiquicini. hisser, that which hisses. b.11 f.8 tlanquiquixiliztli. siluo. 55m-18 tlanquiquixoani. whistler. b.10 f.6 tlanquiquixoni. whistler. b.10 f.6 tlanquiquizcuica. siluar la culebra. 71m1-19 tlanquiquizcuica tlanquiquizcuica tlanquiquizcuicani. el que canta siluando. 71m2-22 tlanquiquizcuicatl. canto desta manera. 71m2-22 tlanquiquiztihui , tla-. they go whistling. b.12 f.3 tlanquiquiztli. siluo. 55m-18 tlequiquizhuia tlequiquizhuia tiro; echar o soltar tiro de^artilleria. 55m-3 tlequiquizhuia de arcabuz. 71m2-25 tlequiquizhuiani tlequiquizhuiliztli tlequiquizhuilli fue herido de tiro de arcabuz. 55m-3 tlequiquizhuiloc. he was shot by a gun. b.12 f.4 tlequiquizhuique , quin-. they shot them with their guns. b.12 f.2 tlequiquizhuiqui tlequiquizhuitihuitze , tla-. they come firing guns. b.12 f.6 tlequiquizhuizque , qui-. they will shoot him with a gun. b.12 f.6 tlequiquizicpatl tlamalintli. mecha de artillero. 71m2-25 tlequiquizo. artillero. 71m1-3 tlequiquizoani. artillero; artillero o arcabuzero. 55m-1 tlequiquiztelolotli. pelota despingarda que se tira; pelota de espingarda. 55m-15 tlequiquiztlacoyoctli. tronera. 55m-19 tlequiquiztlalcuihuayan. minero de piedra ?ufre; minero de piedra zufre. 55m-14 tlequiquiztlalli. piedra zufre; piedra ?ufre; poluora; sufre o piedra zufre. 55m-16 tlequiquiztlalli. gunpowder. b.12 f.5 tlequiquiztlalquixtiloyan. minero de piedra ?ufre; minero de piedra zufre. 55m-14 tlequiquiztlaltatacoyan. minero de piedra ?ufre; minero de piedra zufre. 55m-14 tlequiquiztlaltema tlequiquiztlaltema tlequiquiztlaltentli tlequiquiztlaltentli. cargado arcabuz. 71m1-4 tlequiquiztlaltentli &c. 71m2-24 tlequiquiztlalxoquiac. hedor de piedra zufre, o de cosa semejante. 71m2-25 tlequiquiztlalxoquiyac. hedor de piedra ?ufre o cosa semejante. 55m-11 tlequiquiztlaza echar o soltar tiro de^artilleria; soltar tiro de artilleria. 55m-1 tlequiquiztlaza arcabuz. &c. 71m2-25 tlequiquiztlazqui. artillero; artillero o arcabuzero. 55m-1 tlequiquiztletl. fuego de poluora o de alquitran; huego de poluora o de alquitran. 71m2-25 tlequiquiztli. arcabuz o escopeta. &c; artilleria tiros; artilleria. 71m2-25 tlequiquiztli tlequiquiztli. gun; lombard gun. b.11 f.2 tlequiquizxictli. ceuadero de arzabuz o tiro; ceuadero de arcabuz o de lombarda; ceuadero de arcabuz; o de lombarda. 55m-4 tlequizquiztlazqui [scribal error: ??error: tlequizquiztlazqui for tlequiquiztlazqui; 1944 facsimile has the same error; 1555 has tlequiquiztlazqui: 71m1]. artillero. 71m1-3 tlequiztlalli sic. poluora o piedra zufre. 71m2-25 tomahuac tlequiquiztli. lombarda. 55m-12 _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From campbel at indiana.edu Mon Apr 9 23:34:13 2007 From: campbel at indiana.edu (Campbell, R Joe) Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2007 19:34:13 -0400 Subject: yexanztica In-Reply-To: <0A691D909A42D849BE5A4061F1EE287A0100B512@exchange01.anselm.edu> Message-ID: Nocnihuan, Although it isn't an entirely trustworthy procedure (but what is?), looking at parallel series of elements (particularly in a language and style such as the Nahuatl of the Florentine Codex) can be helpful in getting beyond the literal meaning of the elements. I found 39 occurrences of the word "quiztica" (which I take to be a progressive compound verb: quiz[a]-ti-ca:) and put the obviously literal ones at the bottom of this list. I put items 2, 3, 5, 6, 7, and 8 at the top to display the advantage of letting the parallel words and phrases help us (even the negative ones reinforce our perception of the meanings!). ... and the group in the middle obviously hangs together, but I didn't have anything to say about them. Apparently (I distrust the word "obviously") one meaning of "quiztica" is 'intact, pure, just the way it comes out'. quiztica$$ 2. ca oc itztica, cayatle quitlacoa, ca oc *quiztica*, ca ayacampa itzcalihui, ca oc motquitica, ca oc macitica, ayatle neneliuhqui..%% it is still keen; nothing defileth it; it is still untouched, nowhere twisted, still virgin, pure, undefiled. (b.6 f.8 p.96). && series: ca oc quiztica ca oc itztica ca oc motquitica ca oc macitica cayatle quitlacoa ca ayacampa itzcalihui ayatle neneliuhqui 3. mitoa: oc quincaquilia, quinmacuilia in tloque, nahuaque, in inchoquiz, in intlaocol, in imelcicihuiliz, in intlatlatlauhtiliz: ca nel nozo mitoa cualli in inyollo, ayatle neneliuhqui, oc chipahuac, oc *quiztica*, oc macitica, oc huel chalchihuitl, oc huel teoxihuitl:.%% it is said the lord of the near, of the nigh, yet heareth, receiveth their weeping, their sorrow, their sighs, their prayers, because, it is said, they are good of heart, undefiled, still clean, untouched, pure, still true precious green stones, still true precious turquoises. (b.6 f.9 p.114). && oc quiztica oc chipahuac oc macitica oc huel chalchihuitl oc huel teoxihuitl ayatle neneliuhqui 5. auh in yehuantin, in, teocuitlahuaque, nononcua *quiztica*, xexeliuhtica in intlachihual, in intoltecayo..%% and these goldworkers were each divided, separately classed, as to their workmanship, their artisanship. (b.9 f.5 p.69). && quiztica macitica 6. in teconeuh in ichpochtli, *quiztica*, macitica huel nelli ichpochtli.%% one's daughter: the daughter [is] untouchable, pure, a virgin. (b.10 f.1 p.2). && quiztica macitica huel nelli ... 7. chonequiztli, ahtzoyo, ahteuhyo, huel *quiztica* tepiltzin..%% [he is] a sensitive person, not unclean, not besmirched; a fortunate noble. (b.10 f.1 p.16). && chonequiztli ahtzoyo ahteuhyo 8. in cualli tochpochtzin: ca oc *quiztica*, macitica, atzoyo, ateuhyo, cualnemilice, chipahuaca yollo, tlatlacatl, tlacatl, tlacamelahuac, aeltzoyo,.%% the good maiden is yet a virgin, mature, clean, unblemished, pious, pure of heart, benign, chaste, candid, well disposed. (b.10 f.3 p.46). && oc quiztica macitica atzoyo ateuhyo ***************** 4. nican *quiztica*, nican ixtlauhtica, popouhtica in amilamayotzin, in amonayotzin inic ye achica, cemilhuitl, anquimotlamahuizalhuilia in toteucyo, in itlalticpactzinco:.%% here your old-womanliness, your motherliness is brought forth, is paid tribute, is rewarded in order that yet for a while, for a day, ye honor our lord in his world. (b.6 f.16 p.195). && 10. tentzitziquiltic: iuhquin macuilcan *quiztica*,.%% the edges [of the leaf] are serrated as if formed in five parts. (b.11 f.17 p.169). && 11. in ixiuhyo, tzitzimpitzaton in iamatlapal, ei *quiztica*,.%% its leaves are small and slender at the base; they form in threes. (b.11 f.17 p.171). && 12. ye excan *quiztica* in iamatlapal pitzactotonti, cuahuitztoton:.%% its leaves come in threes; they are small and slender, pointed at the ends. (b.11 f.17 p.176). && ******************* Literal: 1. huel itech peuhtica, huel itech *quiztica*, in quetzalcoatl in ixquich in toltecayotl, in nemachtli,.%% indeed these [crafts] started, indeed these proceeded from quetzalcoatl -- all the crafts work, the learning. (b.3 f.1 p.13). && 9. itech *quiztica* olli: ipampa ololtic, niman ye cohuatl: ipampa onca itzontecon, ihuan icuitlapil,.%% [its name] comes from olli because it is round, [and black]; then coatl, because it has its head and its tail. (b.11 f.9 p.86). && 13. inin itoca itech *quiztica* in quetzalli, ihuan itztli: ipampa in itlachializ iuhquin quetzalli, xoxoctic:.%% the name of this comes from quetzalli [quetzal feather] and itztli [obsidian], because its appearance is like a green quetzal feather. (b.11 f.22 p.222). && 14. inin itoca, itech *quiztica* in quetzalitztli, ihuan epyollotli: ipampa in achi xoxoctic ic tlachia,.%% the name of this comes from quetzalitztli [emerald green jade] and epyollotli [pearl], because it looks a little green. (b.11 f.22 p.225). && 15. zacatl, ihuan tlaxcalli, itech *quiztica* in itoca: ipampa iuhquin zacatl mohuihuicoma,.%% its name comes from ?acatl [grass] and tlaxcalli [tortilla], because [the plant] climbs like grass. (b.11 f.23 p.240). && 16. in itoca itech *quiztica* nacaztli, ihuan colotl, quitoznequi iuhquin nacaztontli, colochtontli, copiltontli,.%% its name comes from nacaztli [ear] and colotl [hook]; that is to say, it is like a small ear, a small hook, a small miter. (b.11 f.23 p.241). && 17. in itoca itech *quiztica* tetl, ihuan cozauhqui. qn. tetl coztic, coztic tetl.%% its name comes from tetl [stone] and co?auhqui [yellow]; that is, it is a yellow stone; yellow in the form of a stone. (b.11 f.23 p.242). && 18. in itoca itech *quiztica* tetl, ihuan tlilli: ipampa ca tetl tlacuahuac, auh tliltic, tlilpatic: auh inic itech onca tezcatl; ipampa pepetlaca..%% its name comes from tetl [rock] and tlilli [black], because it is a hard rock, and black, very black; and from tezcatl [mirror], because it glistens. (b.11 f.23 p.243). && 19. in itoca, itech *quiztica* yiauhtli, anozo yayauhqui, ihuan tlapalli, iuhquin quitoznequi yayactic, yiauhtic tlapalli,.%% its name comes from yauhtli [wormwood] or yayauhqui [dark] and tlapalli [color]. (b.11 f.24 p.244). && 20. in itoca, itech *quiztica* in quilitl, ihuan tic, quitoznequi: iuhquin quilitl,.%% its name comes from quilitl [herb] and -tic, that is, like an herb. (b.11 f.24 p.245). && 21. in itoca huitztli itech *quiztica*, ihuan tecolli: iuhquin quitoznequi huitzcuahuitl, tecoltic, camiltic..%% its name comes from uitztli [thorn] and tecolli [charcoal], as if to say carbonized, brownish brazilwood. (b.11 f.24 p.245). && 22. in itoca, itech *quiztica* cuahuitl, ihuan pachtli: yehica ca in ipachio cuahuitl, in no itto ca cuappachtli,.%% its name comes from quauitl [tree] and pachtli [spanish moss], because the spanish moss is of a tree which is also called quappachtli. (b.11 f.24 p.245). && 23. in itoca, itech *quiztica* in atl, ihuan totoca, iuhquin quitoznequi, atl totocani:.%% its name comes from atl [water] and totoca [it runs]; as if to say "running water." (b.11 f.24 p.247). && 24. in itoca, itech *quiztica* in tecuani, ihuan atl. ipampa cenca tecuayo..%% its name comes from tequani [man-eater] and atl [water], because it has many man-eating animals. (b.11 f.24 p.248). && 25. in itoca, itech *quiztica* nextli, ihuan atl: ipampa tetzahuac, ticehuac, iuhquin nextli, tlapalli.%% its name comes from nextli [ashes] and atl [water], because it is thick, chalky; like ashes is the color. (b.11 f.24 p.249). && 26. in itoca, itech *quiztica* totoli, ihuan atl: ipampa quilmach oncan imatliyan catca, in cuauhtotolme in oc tzihuactla, necuametla,.%% its name comes from totolin [bird] and atl [water], because, it is said, there was the drinking place of the wild birds, those still in the cacti, in the palms. (b.11 f.24 p.249). && 27. in itoca itech *quiztica* tetzahuitl, ihuan atl: ipampa zan iquin in quiztiuh: ihuan cenca temamauhti,.%% its name comes from tetzauitl [omen] and atl [water], because it flows only at times, and it terrifies people greatly. (b.11 f.24 p.249). && 28. in itoca itech *quiztica* in atl, ihuan meya:.%% its name comes from atl [water] and meya [it flows]. (b.11 f.24 p.249). && 29. itech *quiztica* in itoca atl, ihuan pitzahuac, quitoznequi, pitzahuaticac atoyatl,.%% its name comes from atl [water] and pitzauac [thin]; that is, a river which is narrow. (b.11 f.24 p.250). && 30. itech *quiztica* in itoca atl, ihuan tlamanalli, anozo mani:.%% its name comes from atl [water] and tlamanalli [something flat placed on the ground], or mani [it lies flat]. (b.11 f.24 p.250). && 31. in itoca itech *quiztica* in atl, ihuan totoca, quitoznequi, hualatococ tlalcoztli, xalatoctli,.%% its name comes from atl [water] and totoca [it runs]; that is, water-borne yellow soil, water-borne sand. (b.11 f.24 p.251).&& 32. in itoca itech *quiztica* in cuahuitl, ihuan tlalli:.%% its name comes from quauitl [wood] and tlalli [earth]. (b.11 f.24 p.251). && 33. itech *quiztica* in itoca tetl, ihuan zoquitl: ipampa ca tlacuahuac, tzictic, tepitztic, cuichehuac, tlilehuac, chapopotic,.%% its name comes from tetl [rock] and ?oquitl [mud], because it is firm, gummy, hard; dark, blackish, bitumen-like. (b.11 f.24 p.252). && 34. itech *quiztica* in itoca calli, ihuan tlalli:.%% its name comes from calli [house] and tlalli [earth]. (b.11 f.24 p.252). && 35. itech *quiztica* in itoca tlalli, ihuan manqui qn. tlalli amo tliltic, amo no comoltic,.%% its name comes from tlalli [earth] and manqui [level]; that is to say, land neither hilly nor hollowed. (b.11 f.24 p.252). && 36. itech *quiztica* in itoca tlalli, ihuan tlaiztalilli, quitoznequi iztac tlalli,.%% its name comes from tlalli [earth] and tlaiztalli [something white]; that is to say, white earth. (b.11 f.24 p.254). && 37. tezontli, ihuan tlalli: itech *quiztica* in itoca,.%% its name comes from te?ontli [porous volcanic rock] and tlalli [earth]. (b.11 f.24 p.254). && 38. comitl itech *quiztica*, ihuan tlalli: ipampa (comitl) mochihua caxitl, apaztli. etc..%% [Its name] comes from comitl [olla] and tlalli [earth], because [with it ollas] are made; bowls, basins, etc. (b.11 f.25 p.256). && 39. itech *quiztica* atl, ihuan zoquitl:.%% [its name] comes from atl [water] and ?oquitl [mud]. (b.11 f.25 p.257). && _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From brokaw at buffalo.edu Tue Apr 10 11:46:08 2007 From: brokaw at buffalo.edu (brokaw at buffalo.edu) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 07:46:08 -0400 Subject: yexanztica Message-ID: Joe, Thanks so much. I see I failed to identify the "quiquiz" portion of "toquiquiztica" as a noun. So that shoots a big whole in the theory of "quiztica" as a nominalized form. Let me see if I can put another nail in its coffin. This means that among the attestations of "quiztica," there don't seem to be any cases of any clear-cut nominalized forms. For the theory of a nominalized "quiztica," the "toquiquiztica" was essential precisely because it would have indicated that you can use the nominalizing "ca" with the ligature "ti." The fact that this was the only case that I could find where that seemed to be happening in addition to the lack of the "uh" suffix should have clued me in, but I'm slow. One of the things that I originally considered was that there was no formal homology here, because the nominalized form would be "quizca," for which there are many attestations, and the progressive would be "quiztica." I don't seem to be able to find any cases where the nominalizing "ca! " is used with the ligature "ti" as opposed to attaching directly to the verb stem. So if that is the case, this resolves the issue nicely. Does that make sense? I would point out that the definition of "cencan quiztica" as "something whole" illustrates Barry's point about the ambiguity of nouns and verbs. In defense of masochistic morphology, though, I would just say that it seems to me that this is a pragmatic rather than a formal issue. As some of Joe's examples demonstrate, the sense of the verbal expression "quiztica" is sometimes even best rendered in translation as an adjective ("untouched") rather than a verbal phrase. Thanks again, Galen _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From schwallr at potsdam.edu Tue Apr 10 22:00:19 2007 From: schwallr at potsdam.edu (John F. Schwaller) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 17:00:19 -0500 Subject: Tepache Message-ID: In a discussion on our sister list (aztlan at lists.famsi.org) the term "tepache" came up. It is a fermented drink common in Mexico, made with pineapple. The Real Academia says it is indigenous, but I can't easily see how it might come from Nahuatl Any thoughts? John F. Schwaller President SUNY Potsdam 44 Pierrepont Ave. Potsdam, NY 13676 315-267-2100 315-267-2496 fax _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From rcrapo at hass.usu.edu Tue Apr 10 22:11:16 2007 From: rcrapo at hass.usu.edu (Richley) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 16:11:16 -0600 Subject: Tepache Message-ID: How about tepatzi? Richley ----- Original Message ----- From: "John F. Schwaller" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2007 4:00 PM Subject: [Nahuat-l] Tepache > > In a discussion on our sister list (aztlan at lists.famsi.org) the term > "tepache" came up. It is a fermented drink common in Mexico, made > with pineapple. The Real Academia says it is indigenous, but I can't > easily see how it might come from Nahuatl > > Any thoughts? > > > John F. Schwaller > President > SUNY Potsdam > 44 Pierrepont Ave. > Potsdam, NY 13676 > > 315-267-2100 > 315-267-2496 fax > > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From Amapohuani at aol.com Tue Apr 10 23:04:19 2007 From: Amapohuani at aol.com (Amapohuani at aol.com) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 19:04:19 EDT Subject: Tepache Message-ID: Estimados Listeros: Note that this item shows up on the Nahuatl side of Don Bartolom? de Alva's CONFESSIONARIO of 1634 [see the 1999 Schwaller and Sell critical edition]: p. 93, "tepach"; p. 97, "Cuix titepachtlalia" [meaning, 'Do you sell tepache?']; and p. 121, "in tepachnamacoyan huinonamacoyan" [place(s) where tepache and wine is/are sold]. Ye ixquich. Barry In a message dated 4/10/07 5:16:34 PM, rcrapo at hass.usu.edu writes: > How about tepatzi? > Richley > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John F. Schwaller" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2007 4:00 PM > Subject: [Nahuat-l] Tepache > > > > > > In a discussion on our sister list (aztlan at lists.famsi.org) the term > > "tepache" came up.? It is a fermented drink common in Mexico, made > > with pineapple.? The Real Academia says it is indigenous, but I can't > > easily see how it might come from Nahuatl > > > > Any thoughts? > > > > > > John F. Schwaller > > President > > SUNY Potsdam > > 44 Pierrepont Ave. > > Potsdam, NY? 13676 > > > > 315-267-2100 > > 315-267-2496 fax > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Nahuatl mailing list > > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > > > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > > ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From dfrye at umich.edu Tue Apr 10 23:40:04 2007 From: dfrye at umich.edu (Frye, David) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 19:40:04 -0400 Subject: Tepache Message-ID: Santamaria's Diccionario de mejicanismos derives it "del azt. tepiatl, bebida de maiz," but there is no reason to assume he wasn't just making this up. (For the record, he defines tepache as a "fermented drink prepared from the juice of various plants, especially that of sugar cane and pineapple, with brown sugar or panocha... Also made from pulque, though rarely.... Originally made from maize." Santamaria cites usages as far south as Honduras, but it is basically a Mexican term.) In Barry's example, huino is clearly a Spanish loan word -- is there any reason to assume that tepach isn't a loan word as well? Could tepache have originally been a mangled misunderstanding of a Nahuatl phrase, such as "pulque" is supposed to be? David ________________________________ From: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org on behalf of Amapohuani at aol.com Sent: Tue 4/10/2007 7:04 PM To: rcrapo at hass.usu.edu; nahuatl at lists.famsi.org; schwallr at potsdam.edu Subject: Re: [Nahuat-l] Tepache Estimados Listeros: Note that this item shows up on the Nahuatl side of Don Bartolom? de Alva's CONFESSIONARIO of 1634 [see the 1999 Schwaller and Sell critical edition]: p. 93, "tepach"; p. 97, "Cuix titepachtlalia" [meaning, 'Do you sell tepache?']; and p. 121, "in tepachnamacoyan huinonamacoyan" [place(s) where tepache and wine is/are sold]. Ye ixquich. Barry In a message dated 4/10/07 5:16:34 PM, rcrapo at hass.usu.edu writes: How about tepatzi? Richley ----- Original Message ----- From: "John F. Schwaller" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2007 4:00 PM Subject: [Nahuat-l] Tepache > In a discussion on our sister list (aztlan at lists.famsi.org) the term > "tepache" came up. It is a fermented drink common in Mexico, made > with pineapple. The Real Academia says it is indigenous, but I can't > easily see how it might come from Nahuatl > > Any thoughts? > > John F. Schwaller > President > SUNY Potsdam > 44 Pierrepont Ave. > Potsdam, NY 13676 > > 315-267-2100 > 315-267-2496 fax -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From schwallr at potsdam.edu Tue Apr 10 23:40:49 2007 From: schwallr at potsdam.edu (John F. Schwaller) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 19:40:49 -0400 Subject: Tepache In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Am I embarrassed. I guess I should read my own stuff more. Nevertheless, my search of Molina didn't come up with anything, nor in Karttunen. So the point remains, is it really a Nahuatl word? In looking at the second example, it is paired with wine, and the constructions are exactly parallel. And we know that "huino" is not Nahuatl. > Estimados Listeros: > > Note that this item shows up on the Nahuatl side of Don Bartolom? de > Alva's > CONFESSIONARIO of 1634 [see the 1999 Schwaller and Sell critical edition]: > p. > 93, "tepach"; p. 97, "Cuix titepachtlalia" [meaning, 'Do you sell > tepache?']; > and p. 121, "in tepachnamacoyan huinonamacoyan" [place(s) where tepache > and > wine is/are sold]. > > Ye ixquich. > Barry > > -- John F. Schwaller President, SUNY Potsdam 44 Pierrepont Ave. Potsdam, NY 13676 schwallr at potsdam.edu _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From campbel at indiana.edu Wed Apr 11 01:06:23 2007 From: campbel at indiana.edu (Campbell, R Joe) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 21:06:23 -0400 Subject: Tepache In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I was drawing a blank on the possible origin of "tepache", but I examined some vocabulary items and the light went on. Consider the following words: nitecuatepachoa descalabrar con piedra nitepachoa apedrear a otro The answer is fairly obvious -- "tepache" is 'something for getting stoned'!! |8-) Joe p.s. My better half insists that I issue a warning that nonenepil is lodged ipan nocamaxiquipil. _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From idiez at mac.com Wed Apr 11 03:44:33 2007 From: idiez at mac.com (John Sullivan, Ph.D.) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 22:44:33 -0500 Subject: Tepache In-Reply-To: <20070410210623.g9aiq4e3c4wcgsoo@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: Listeros, The word for gabazo, the pulp that is left when you crush cane or other fruits to get out the juice, is ipachcho: i =possessor pachtli = s.t. crushed yo =relational of inherent possession. The initial te- is a problem, but I would think that the word refers to the process of the drink's preparation. John John Sullivan, Ph.D. Profesor de lengua y cultura nahua Universidad Aut?noma de Zacatecas Instituto de Docencia e Investigaci?n Etnol?gica de Zacatecas, A.C. Tacuba 152, int. 47 Centro Hist?rico Zacatecas, Zac. 98000 M?xico Oficina: +52 (492) 925-3415 Fax: +52 (492) 925-3416 Domicilio: +52 (492) 768-6048 Celular: +52 (492) 118-0854 idiez at mac.com www.idiez.org.mx www.macehualli.org ? On Apr 10, 2007, at 8:06 PM, Campbell, R Joe wrote: > > I was drawing a blank on the possible origin of "tepache", but I > examined some vocabulary items and the light went on. Consider the > following words: > > nitecuatepachoa descalabrar con piedra > nitepachoa apedrear a otro > > The answer is fairly obvious -- "tepache" is 'something for getting > stoned'!! > > |8-) > > Joe > > p.s. My better half insists that I issue a warning that nonenepil is > lodged ipan nocamaxiquipil. > > > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: John Sullivan, Ph.D..vcf Type: text/directory Size: 33602 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From k_salmon at ipinc.net Thu Apr 12 02:57:07 2007 From: k_salmon at ipinc.net (Kier Salmon) Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 19:57:07 -0700 Subject: Mother and Father Message-ID: Listeros, I work as a spanish interpreter. One of my populations is children with speech pathologies. A lot of work has gone into making sure that children of "habla espa?ol" and other languages are properly evaluated within their cultural context and language development. I was speaking to one of our people and he said that every language used "mama" and "papa" as the first syllables a child spoke. Something to do with dropping the jaw as a first sound exercise. I immediately disagreed as I had had a mixteco speaking couple with a child with delayed speech just recently and I had heard them say "Mother" and, while I couldn't remember the phoneme, I could remember that it wasn't anything like mama, which surprised me at the time. I looked up on the web (sigh, for a large library and linguistic resources at my fingertips!) and came up with the mixteco, the nahuatl and the maya (which is apparently also a Uto-Aztecan language) as Mixtec Nahuatl Maya English nan?'i Iye' Na' Mama Tata Tata Taat Papa I don't know how much familiarty people might have with these... I couldn't find Cora, Huichol, or any other of the multiple languages in Mexico on the web... but the question he had was; how are they pronounced??? Any help? Thanks Kier in Portland, Oregon _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From idiez at mac.com Thu Apr 12 12:47:16 2007 From: idiez at mac.com (John Sullivan, Ph.D.) Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 07:47:16 -0500 Subject: Mother and Father In-Reply-To: <02A4CD8B-B02F-4F49-A372-34D4296D04E1@ipinc.net> Message-ID: Kier, Mother in Nahuatl is -nanan. In Wixarika (Huichol), mother is -tei, and father is -yau. John John Sullivan, Ph.D. Profesor de lengua y cultura nahua Universidad Aut?noma de Zacatecas Instituto de Docencia e Investigaci?n Etnol?gica de Zacatecas, A.C. Tacuba 152, int. 47 Centro Hist?rico Zacatecas, Zac. 98000 M?xico Oficina: +52 (492) 925-3415 Fax: +52 (492) 925-3416 Domicilio: +52 (492) 768-6048 Celular: +52 (492) 118-0854 idiez at mac.com www.idiez.org.mx www.macehualli.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: John Sullivan, Ph.D..vcf Type: text/directory Size: 33602 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Thu Apr 12 13:00:00 2007 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 09:00:00 -0400 Subject: Mother and Father In-Reply-To: <02A4CD8B-B02F-4F49-A372-34D4296D04E1@ipinc.net> Message-ID: Kier, Mayan belongs to the Mayan language family and Nahuatl to Uto-Aztecan. Nahuatl 'mother' is /-nan/; 'father' is /-tah/. monan; amonan your mother; y'all's mother nonan; tonan my mother; our mother The diminutive (endearment) suffix -tzin often accompanies these terms. Michael McCafferty Quoting Kier Salmon : > Listeros, > I work as a spanish interpreter. One of my populations is children > with speech pathologies. A lot of work has gone into making sure > that children of "habla espa?ol" and other languages are properly > evaluated within their cultural context and language development. > I was speaking to one of our people and he said that every language > used "mama" and "papa" as the first syllables a child spoke. > Something to do with dropping the jaw as a first sound exercise. > I immediately disagreed as I had had a mixteco speaking couple with a > child with delayed speech just recently and I had heard them say > "Mother" and, while I couldn't remember the phoneme, I could remember > that it wasn't anything like mama, which surprised me at the time. > I looked up on the web (sigh, for a large library and linguistic > resources at my fingertips!) and came up with the mixteco, the > nahuatl and the maya (which is apparently also a Uto-Aztecan > language) as > > Mixtec Nahuatl Maya English > nan?'i Iye' Na' Mama > Tata Tata Taat Papa > > > I don't know how much familiarty people might have with these... I > couldn't find Cora, Huichol, or any other of the multiple languages > in Mexico on the web... but the question he had was; how are they > pronounced??? Any help? > Thanks > Kier in Portland, Oregon > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From schwallr at potsdam.edu Mon Apr 23 11:26:31 2007 From: schwallr at potsdam.edu (John F. Schwaller) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 07:26:31 -0400 Subject: La otra conquista Message-ID: FORWARDED MESSAGE FROM THE PRODUCTION TEAM OF "LA OTRA CONQUISTA": ------------------------------ Hello, On May 4 "The Other Conquest (La Otra Conquista)," the powerful film by Salvador Carrasco about the Spanish conquest of Mexico will be released in select cities! This masterpiece of world cinema has captivated audiences everywhere and now American moviegoers will get to experience this moving, unforgettable movie about a clash of cultures. For More Information visit www.theotherconquest.com or www.myspace.com/theotherconquest MESSAGE FROM SALVADOR CARRASCO: "The Other Conquest" tells the story of the Aztecs? spiritual and psychological resistance to the 1521 Spanish conquest of Mexico. The film explores the ways in which people on the receiving end of conquests, invasions, colonization, or certain kinds of "liberation", struggle to preserve their identity and beliefs in spite of military defeat. Their other conquest is a spiritual one, often attained at great personal sacrifice. The story depicted in this film is not just about Aztecs and Spaniards; it has been repeating itself throughout history, even to this day, in different shades and forms. Salvador Carrasco Writer/Director, ?The Other Conquest? Santa Monica, California April 14, 2007 Reflexion del Director ?La Otra Conquista? cuenta la historia de la resistencia espiritual y sicologica de los aztecas ante los efectos de la conquista espanola de Mexico. La pel?cula explora las diferentes formas en que una civilizacion que ha sufrido una invasion, colonizacion, o cierto tipo de ?liberacion?, lucha por preservar su identidad y creencias a pesar de la derrota militar. El gran reto de estos pueblos, su otra conquista, es la integridad espiritual, que a menudo conlleva un enorme sacrificio personal. Este conflicto se ha venido repitiendo en diversas formas a traves de la historia, incluso hoy en d?a, de ahi la relevancia actual de esta pelicula. Salvador Carrasco Guionista/Director, ?La Otra Conquista? Santa Monica, California 14 de abril del 2007 __________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From k_salmon at ipinc.net Wed Apr 25 15:07:45 2007 From: k_salmon at ipinc.net (Kier Salmon) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 08:07:45 -0700 Subject: Nahuatl Dictionary Message-ID: I'm packing to move and just found, hidden in the back of a shelf a book I must have picked up during my 1996 visit to M?xico, though I have no memory of doing so. It's R?mi Sim?on's "Diccionario de la lengua nahuatl o mexicana" "Redactado seg?n los documentos impresos y manuscritos m?s aut?nticos y precedido de una introducci?n." translated by Josefina Oliva de Coll in 1977 (?) Since my interest is in classic nahuatl more than contemporary, does anybody know how useful this book will be to me? One of these days I am going to have all the answers. Meanwhile, the answers I have received from this list have been wonderfully full and informative. Thanks, Kier Salmon Portland OR _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx Wed Apr 25 15:50:28 2007 From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 10:50:28 -0500 Subject: Simon Message-ID: Estimado Kier: Reproduzco a continuaci?n un extracto resumido sobre el diccionario de Sim?on, tomado de una obra m?a que actualmente est? en preparaci?n: El estudioso franc?s R?mi Sim?on public? el Dictionnaire de la langue nahuatl ou mexicaine (?Diccionario de la lengua n?huatl o mexicana?) en 1885. Hoy la edici?n m?s consultada, a?n por algunos especialistas franceses, es una traducci?n al castellano, publicada por primera vez en 1977. El diccionario de Sim?on sigue siendo ?til, por incluir el contenido del vocabulario de Molina, con una organizaci?n m?s pr?ctica. Adem?s agrega palabras tomadas de otras fuentes. En lugar de la atomizaci?n (y a veces la separaci?n en el libro) de las diferentes palabras formadas a partir de una misma ra?z, como encontramos en Molina, Sim?on combina estas formas en entradas ?nicas. Esto es particularmente ?til en el caso de los sustantivos; a diferencia del vocabulario de Molina, las formas plurales y pose?das quedan integradas con las formas absolutivas correspondientes. Asimismo se registran las ra?ces de las palabras compuestas, aunque con frecuencia hay errores en cuanto a su identificaci?n. El hecho de que Sim?on haya agregado palabras adicionales al lexic?n de Molina hace que esta obra sea ?til para la b?squeda de palabras. Un defecto importante de la versi?n castellana del diccionario de Sim?on es que las glosas han sido traducidas del castellano al franc?s y otra vez al castellano, perjudicando as? la precisi?n, pues cualquier traducci?n implica necesariamente alg?n grado de distorsi?n. James Lockhart opina que este diccionario es ?til para principiantes, pero que sigue siendo m?s ?til el Vocabulario de Molina para los estudiosos serios de los textos escritos en el n?huatl novohispano del Centro de M?xico. Finalmente hay que mencionar que hay problemas con el sistema ortogr?fico usado por Sim?on. Saludos, David Wright -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From k_salmon at ipinc.net Mon Apr 30 01:15:11 2007 From: k_salmon at ipinc.net (Kier Salmon) Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2007 18:15:11 -0700 Subject: Hassig, warriors Message-ID: I'm reading "Aztec warfare" and found the following word or more probably phrase: cihuatecpanecatl tequihuau page 39 ranks of warriors I am having a trouble tracking it down... and want to understand... cihua = woman tecpan = ecatl = of course I have no idea if I've divided it up into it's component parts just right, I'm going on my Mexico language experiences which includes some (ten grains of salt) nahuatl in the modern version. But all I've found in my dictionary (nothing) and on-line is "valorous warrior" tucked in between mistress of girls and lady of something. So if it is valorous warrior, then why the cihua at the beginning? Something like cihuacoatl? Kier Salmon _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From micc2 at cox.net Mon Apr 30 01:40:42 2007 From: micc2 at cox.net (micc2) Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2007 18:40:42 -0700 Subject: Hassig, warriors In-Reply-To: <9EAF3700-9F33-4750-A665-167653848A2F@ipinc.net> Message-ID: My guess: Cihua(tl) woman tecpanecatl = person from Tecpan Tec - pan = Tekw(tli) = lord + pan = on, at = "royal house, court" The woman from the royal house...... Mario Kier Salmon wrote: > I'm reading "Aztec warfare" and found the following word or more > probably phrase: > > cihuatecpanecatl tequihuau page 39 ranks of warriors > > I am having a trouble tracking it down... and want to understand... > cihua = woman > tecpan = > ecatl = > > of course I have no idea if I've divided it up into it's component > parts just right, I'm going on my Mexico language experiences which > includes some (ten grains of salt) nahuatl in the modern version. > But all I've found in my dictionary (nothing) and on-line is > "valorous warrior" tucked in between mistress of girls and lady of > something. > So if it is valorous warrior, then why the cihua at the beginning? > Something like cihuacoatl? > > Kier Salmon > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > > > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From brokaw at buffalo.edu Mon Apr 30 11:11:18 2007 From: brokaw at buffalo.edu (brokaw at buffalo.edu) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 07:11:18 -0400 Subject: Hassig, warriors In-Reply-To: <9EAF3700-9F33-4750-A665-167653848A2F@ipinc.net> Message-ID: Does Hassig give you the context in which this phrase appears? I could be wrong, but it looks to me like what this says is "warriors who are from Cihuatecpan" or a little more literally "Cihuatecpan warriors." Galen Quoting Kier Salmon : > I'm reading "Aztec warfare" and found the following word or more > probably phrase: > > cihuatecpanecatl tequihuau page 39 ranks of warriors > > I am having a trouble tracking it down... and want to understand... > cihua = woman > tecpan = > ecatl = > > of course I have no idea if I've divided it up into it's component > parts just right, I'm going on my Mexico language experiences which > > includes some (ten grains of salt) nahuatl in the modern version. > But all I've found in my dictionary (nothing) and on-line is > "valorous warrior" tucked in between mistress of girls and lady of > something. > So if it is valorous warrior, then why the cihua at the beginning? > > Something like cihuacoatl? > > Kier Salmon > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > > > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Mon Apr 30 12:09:14 2007 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 08:09:14 -0400 Subject: Hassig, warriors In-Reply-To: <1177931478.4635ced661234@mail2.buffalo.edu> Message-ID: Right, Galen. That was my first thought. This sounds like the feminine form of an ethnonym. The context definitely needs exploration before a final translation can be given. But I'd put my money on the ethnonym horse. However, there is another point. I don't have my files with me, but, if you were to ask me how to say "woman from the royal house," I would have said "tecpancihuatl". However, I did like Mario's parsing of the term, including the instructive spelling tekwtli. In other words, as a direct response to Kier, who had in his email mentioned the introductory nature of his understanding of Nahuatl, Mario's spelling of "lord" is instructive as it reflects the actual pronunciation of the term better than the historical "teuctli". Michael Quoting brokaw at buffalo.edu: > Does Hassig give you the context in which this phrase appears? > I could be wrong, but it looks to me like what this says is "warriors > who are from Cihuatecpan" or a little more literally "Cihuatecpan warriors." > > Galen > > > Quoting Kier Salmon : > >> I'm reading "Aztec warfare" and found the following word or more >> probably phrase: >> >> cihuatecpanecatl tequihuau page 39 ranks of warriors >> >> I am having a trouble tracking it down... and want to understand... >> cihua = woman >> tecpan = >> ecatl = >> >> of course I have no idea if I've divided it up into it's component >> parts just right, I'm going on my Mexico language experiences which >> >> includes some (ten grains of salt) nahuatl in the modern version. >> But all I've found in my dictionary (nothing) and on-line is >> "valorous warrior" tucked in between mistress of girls and lady of >> something. >> So if it is valorous warrior, then why the cihua at the beginning? >> >> Something like cihuacoatl? >> >> Kier Salmon >> _______________________________________________ >> Nahuatl mailing list >> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org >> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From carlossn at ghis.ucm.es Mon Apr 30 15:38:53 2007 From: carlossn at ghis.ucm.es (Carlos Santamarina Novillo) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 17:38:53 +0200 Subject: cihuatecpanecatl Message-ID: "Cioatecpanecatl" (Sahag?n 1990, libro 8?, cap. XXI: 607) es uno de los t?tulos de la jerarqu?a militar mexica. Se trata pues de un cargo, cuyo origen probablemente es gentilicio (procedente de un lugar llamado Tecpan) o quiz? de un antrop?nimo (Tecpanecatl tambi?n aparece como nombre de persona: Sahag?n 1990, libro 12?, cap. XXXVII: 995). Lo que no parece probable es que el origen del t?rmino aluda a "gente del palacio", pues -ecatl es la forma de sufijo gentilicio asociada al sufijo topon?mico -pan, as? que muy probablemente se trata de un gentilicio asociado a un top?nimo Tecpan (muy usual). En relaci?n al gentilicio "tepanecatl / tecpanecatl" escrib? un art?culo accesible en la red: http://www.ucm.es/BUCM/revistasBUC/portal/abrir.php?url=http://www.ucm.es/BUCM/revistas/ghi/05566533/articulos/REAA0606120061A.PDF SANTAMARINA NOVILLO, Carlos 2006 "Los azteca-tepaneca: en torno a sus or?genes y gentilicio". Revista Espa?ola de Antropolog?a Americana 36 n? 1: 63-83, Universidad Complutense de Madrid. Saludos... ------------------------------------------- Carlos Santamarina Novillo --- Profesor Asociado Dpto. H? de Am?rica II (Antropolog?a de Am?rica) Despacho 12, 6? planta Facultad de Geograf?a e Historia Universidad Complutense de Madrid 28040 Madrid (Espa?a) Tel. (34)-91-394-5789 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From sylvia at famsi.org Mon Apr 30 15:42:29 2007 From: sylvia at famsi.org (sylvia at famsi.org) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 11:42:29 -0400 Subject: Grantee reports--Mayapan, Middle Balsas, Balsas River Valley, San Lorenzo Message-ID: Hello Mesoamericanists, Newest grantee final reports at FAMSI website are: Mayapan's Effigy Censers: Iconography, Context, and External Connections (2005) by Susan Milbrath. http://www.famsi.org/reports/05025/index.html Middle Balsas Project: An Investigation of Pottery Functionality and Chronology (2006) by Jennifer Meanwell. http://www.famsi.org/reports/06021/index.html Nahuatl Cultural Encyclopedia: Botany and Zoology, Balsas River, Guerrero (2004) by Jonathan D. Amith. http://www.famsi.org/reports/03049/index.html Early and Middle Formative: San Lorenzo, Veracruz, Mexico (2001) by Anthony A. Vega. http://www.famsi.org/reports/00103/index.html Saludos, Sylvia Perrine, Archivist Foundation for the Advancement of Mesoamerican Studies, Inc. http://www.famsi.org/index.html _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From karttu at nantucket.net Mon Apr 30 15:53:50 2007 From: karttu at nantucket.net (Frances Karttunen) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 11:53:50 -0400 Subject: cihuatecpanecatl Message-ID: On the other hand, There is a verb tecpana which, when it takes takes the nonspecific object prefix te-, means to put people into order, line them up. A synonym is te-tecpantlalia. Replacing a locative suffix with -eca-tl yields the sense of 'person from?' For example: Tepoztlan is a place; a person from Tepoztlan is a Tepoztlanecatl. _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From idiez at mac.com Mon Apr 30 17:17:16 2007 From: idiez at mac.com (John Sullivan, Ph.D.) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 12:17:16 -0500 Subject: a question for FAMSI Message-ID: Dear listeros and FAMSI, A few years ago I contacted FAMSI concerning a the possiblity of funding for a project of mine. I was told politely but firmly that FAMSI was only interested in the visual aspectos older indigenous culture, and that if I submitted a proyect involving living indians and/or language, I would be wasting my time. I would like to know if FAMSI has recently instituted a policy change regarding it's interests and the types of projects it will be funding. John John Sullivan, Ph.D. Professor of Nahua language and culture Universidad Aut?noma de Zacatecas Zacatecas Institute of Teaching and Research in Ethnology Tacuba 152, int. 47 Centro Hist?rico Zacatecas, Zac. 98000 Mexico Work: +52 (492) 925-3415 Fax: +52 (492) 925-3416 Home: +52 (492) 768-6048 Mobile: +52 (492) 118-0854 idiez at mac.com www.idiez.org.mx www.macehualli.org ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: John Sullivan, Ph.D..vcf Type: text/directory Size: 33602 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl