From chuckert at uv.mx Wed Jul 4 23:05:41 2007 From: chuckert at uv.mx (Huckert Chantal) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 17:05:41 -0600 Subject: Question regarding the meaning of Inextlacuilolli Message-ID: Can someone tell me what inextlacuilolli means. I had a question about acaxilqui but have found the answer in a discussion that the Nahuatl-list members had regarding it in April 2005. Thank you in advance, Chantal Huckert -----Original Message----- From: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org on behalf of nahuatl-request at lists.famsi.org Sent: Wed 7/4/2007 10:59 AM To: Huckert Chantal Subject: Welcome to the "Nahuatl" mailing list (Digest mode) Welcome to the Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org mailing list! The list has been in operation for nearly two decades. It is dedicated to the study of the Nahua people in general and to the Nahuatl language in particular. The list is intended to be a forum where scholars and others can discuss issues related to the Nahua and Nahuatl. In particular scholars embarking on a new area of investigation can use the list to announce their intentions and to pose meaningful questions. Persons translating Nahuatl documents can seek the assistance of the membership in translating particularly difficult words. In short, all types of issues related to the Nahua people and to the Nahuatl language can be shared within the list. While other discussion lists deal more generally with Mesoamerican cultures, such as our sister list AZTLAN, Nahuat-l is the only list purely dedicated to the study of Nahuatl. We all hope that Nahuat-l is respected by professionals and provides a forum that is open to amateurs and novices. However, members are asked to avoid postings on subjects and theories that are not supported by any substantial research in order to maintain the list as one that will be informative and useful for all list members. Those academic 'lurkers' out there are encouraged to participate when they can. If you don't believe that a current thread has any scholarly value, please let me know. Or, better yet, post a well-supported reply in order to educate the group. This list belongs to all of us, and it becomes what we make of it. Thoughtful, reasoned, and regular participation by all members is the key. Please email the list owner directly if you have any questions or concerns. John F. Schwaller - List owner, Nahuat-l nahuatl-owner at lists.famsi.org To post to this list, send your email to: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org General information about the mailing list is at: http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl If you ever want to unsubscribe or change your options (eg, switch to or from digest mode, change your password, etc.), visit your subscription page at: http://www.famsi.org/mailman/options/nahuatl/chuckert%40uv.mx You can also make such adjustments via email by sending a message to: Nahuatl-request at lists.famsi.org with the word `help' in the subject or body (don't include the quotes), and you will get back a message with instructions. You must know your password to change your options (including changing the password, itself) or to unsubscribe. It is: quetzalmiahuayo Normally, Mailman will remind you of your lists.famsi.org mailing list passwords once every month, although you can disable this if you prefer. This reminder will also include instructions on how to unsubscribe or change your account options. There is also a button on your options page that will email your current password to you. -- Este mensaje ha sido analizado por MailScanner en busca de virus y otros contenidos peligrosos, y se considera que está limpio. Si tiene problemas con alguna direccion de coreo electronico, si quiere reportar correo spam para su bloqueo, o necesita recibir correo electronico de algun sitio en especial que por estar reportado como una direccion de spam en listas negras de Internet no llega: escriba cual es su problema a: depserv at uv.mx For all your IT requirements visit: http://www.transtec.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From kimi_nadiaxxi at yahoo.com Fri Jul 13 14:23:58 2007 From: kimi_nadiaxxi at yahoo.com (Nadia Marin Guadarrama) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 09:23:58 -0500 Subject: Question regarding the meaning of Inextlacuilolli In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Queridos listeros, Hace algunos meses estuvieron comentando acerca de un libro que contiene una compilación de los diferentes códices que existen, y de un académico mexicano (creo que de la UNAM) que esta trabajando en un nuevo libro referente al mismo tema, pero mucho más actualizado. Desafortunadamente perdí el mensaje, y con ello la información. Serían tan amables de darme los datos del libro y del académico? Se los agradezco mucho, Nadia Marín-Guadarrama --- Huckert Chantal escribió: > > Can someone tell me what inextlacuilolli means. > I had a question about acaxilqui but have found > the answer in a discussion that the > Nahuatl-list members had regarding it in April > 2005. > Thank you in advance, > Chantal Huckert > > -----Original Message----- > From: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org on behalf > of nahuatl-request at lists.famsi.org > Sent: Wed 7/4/2007 10:59 AM > To: Huckert Chantal > Subject: Welcome to the "Nahuatl" mailing list > (Digest mode) > > Welcome to the Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org mailing > list! The list has been > in operation for nearly two decades. It is > dedicated to the study of > the Nahua people in general and to the Nahuatl > language in particular. > The list is intended to be a forum where > scholars and others can > discuss issues related to the Nahua and > Nahuatl. In particular > scholars embarking on a new area of > investigation can use the list to > announce their intentions and to pose > meaningful questions. Persons > translating Nahuatl documents can seek the > assistance of the > membership in translating particularly > difficult words. In short, all > types of issues related to the Nahua people and > to the Nahuatl > language can be shared within the list. While > other discussion lists > deal more generally with Mesoamerican cultures, > such as our sister > list AZTLAN, Nahuat-l is the only list purely > dedicated to the study > of Nahuatl. > > We all hope that Nahuat-l is respected by > professionals and provides a > forum that is open to amateurs and novices. > > However, members are asked to avoid postings on > subjects and theories > that are not supported by any substantial > research in order to > maintain the list as one that will be > informative and useful for all > list members. > > Those academic 'lurkers' out there are > encouraged to participate when > they can. If you don't believe that a current > thread has any > scholarly value, please let me know. Or, > better yet, post a > well-supported reply in order to educate the > group. > > This list belongs to all of us, and it becomes > what we make of it. > Thoughtful, reasoned, and regular participation > by all members is the > key. > > Please email the list owner directly if you > have any questions or > concerns. > > John F. Schwaller - List owner, Nahuat-l > > nahuatl-owner at lists.famsi.org > > > > To post to this list, send your email to: > > nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > > General information about the mailing list is > at: > > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > > If you ever want to unsubscribe or change your > options (eg, switch to > or from digest mode, change your password, > etc.), visit your > subscription page at: > > > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/options/nahuatl/chuckert%40uv.mx > > You can also make such adjustments via email by > sending a message to: > > Nahuatl-request at lists.famsi.org > > with the word `help' in the subject or body > (don't include the > quotes), and you will get back a message with > instructions. > > You must know your password to change your > options (including changing > the password, itself) or to unsubscribe. It > is: > > quetzalmiahuayo > > Normally, Mailman will remind you of your > lists.famsi.org mailing list > passwords once every month, although you can > disable this if you > prefer. This reminder will also include > instructions on how to > unsubscribe or change your account options. > There is also a button on > your options page that will email your current > password to you. > > -- > Este mensaje ha sido analizado por MailScanner > en busca de virus y otros contenidos > peligrosos, > y se considera que está limpio. > Si tiene problemas con alguna direccion de > coreo electronico, > si quiere reportar correo spam para su bloqueo, > o necesita recibir > correo electronico de algun sitio en especial > que por estar reportado > como una direccion de spam en listas negras de > Internet no llega: > escriba cual es su problema a: depserv at uv.mx > > For all your IT requirements visit: > http://www.transtec.co.uk > > > > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > __________________________________________________ Correo Yahoo! Espacio para todos tus mensajes, antivirus y antispam ¡gratis! Regístrate ya - http://correo.espanol.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From david_becraft at hotmail.com Wed Jul 18 23:57:28 2007 From: david_becraft at hotmail.com (David Becraft) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 16:57:28 -0700 Subject: calcos? calques? Message-ID: Listeros, Estoy haciendo un proyecto de investigacion sobre la escritura Mesoamericana. Me harian un favor immenso con su conocimiento linguistico del Nahuatl? Necesito saber si las siguientes palabras Nahuas podrian corresponder a estos terminos linguisticos de escritura. Tienen logica O me faltan algunos elementos? Tiene alguien otras palabras que se podrian usar? Estos "calcos" provienen de los Diccionarios de Molina, Simeon, y Karttunen. I am working on a research project on Mesoamerican writing. Could those who have the linguistic knowledge in Nahuatl help me out? I need to know whether the following Nahuatl words corrrespond with the linguistic terms of writing. Are they logical or am I missing some elements? Could other words be used? For these "calques" I used the Dictionaries of Molina, Simeon, and Karttunen. Any suggestions? Semasiography--------------------------------------------------------Nezcayoticuiloa Glottography-----------------------------------------------------------Nenepilcuiloa Logography------------------------------------------------------------Tlatolcuiloa Phonography----------------------------------------------------------Caquizcuiloa Syllable-----------------------------------------------------------------Tlatolcotonqui Sign (phoneme)-------------------------------------------------------Nezcayotl Graphic Sign----------------------------------------------------------Nezcayocuiloa Tlashtlawi, David Becraft Anthropology Southern Oregon University Ashland, Oregon becraftd at students.sou.edu _________________________________________________________________ http://liveearth.msn.com _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From david_becraft at hotmail.com Thu Jul 19 18:37:43 2007 From: david_becraft at hotmail.com (David Becraft) Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 11:37:43 -0700 Subject: [Aztlan] Calcos? Calque? In-Reply-To: <469F715C.7050507@buffalo.edu> Message-ID: Brokawtzin, The reason I want to use these Nahuatl terms is because I am trying to distance myself from the theory of the "evolution of writing" as espoused by Bishop Warburton and I.J. Gelb. Terms such as "hieroglyph", "glyph", "pictograph", and "ideograph" are ambiguous concepts, as well as ethnocentric. As it is common with many scientists to use non-english words for scientific terminology by using Greek or Latin roots, I am also trying to use non-Greek/Latin roots for further developing a "writing" terminology in Nahuatl. The Nahuatl terms I propose are obviously not organic Nahuatl concepts per say; But the theoretical application of these terms are important since Mesoamerican (specifically Central Mexican) writing was based primarily on "Semasiography" and served as a mixed system of writing which included "Logography", "Phoneticism", and "Syllabic" elements. The Greek words themselves only serve to conceptualize the concept of writing as a theoretical function for "Near Eastern" writing, to quote I.J. Gelb. As can be seen by research, Mesoamerica developed writing independently of Near Eastern cultures, and as such, a well developed terminology for studying the "mixed" system of writing in Mesoamerica is integral for continued research in this area. In order to explain "Semasiography" as applied to Mesoamerican writing, I think that a terminology more in tune with an Indigenous perspective of its lexicon might be helpful in analyzing at least on a linguistic level the different aspects of writing as understood semantically and metaphorically; granted, they are calques. By these Nahuatl terms, I intend to lay down the foundation for further analyzing and studying the writing systems as "understood" by Mesoamericans by using linguistic frameworks that outside of this current research could potentially be further developed for a complete study of Mesoamerican writing. These same concepts could be used in Purepecha, Mazahua, Maya, etc. Just to recap (correct me if I'm wrong): For *Semasiography* I proposed: *Nezcayoticuiloa* (I used Nezcayotia instead of Nezcayotl): Nezcayotia [ne:zka:yo:tia]=to mean, denote, indicate something (Karttunen 1983:172) You proposed: *Nezcayocuilolli* The problem I was having with Nezcayotia was that I didn't know what to do with the "-tia". I had thought: *Nezcayotiacuiloa* *Nezcayoticuiloai* Does the elimination of "-tia" change the meaning of the word to mean "Nezcayo(tl)? Once again, Thank you for your feedback, your comments, your suggetions, and your words of caution; they will all be taken into consideration. David F. Becraft Anthropology Southern Oregon University Ashland, Oregon http://www.sou.edu/mcnair/scholars/becraft.html >From: Galen Brokaw >To: David Becraft >CC: Aztlan at lists.famsi.org >Subject: Re: [Aztlan] Calcos? Calque? >Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 10:12:44 -0400 > >Pancho, >There is a fundamental difference between defining a word and translating >it. I'm not sure exactly why you need or want to come up with Nahuatl >equivalents for the English terms you list, but no Nahuatl term is going to >be a transparent translation of any of those terms, because Nahuatl culture >has not conceptualized semiotic phenomena in the same way as Western >philosophy and linguistics. Ultimately, the definition of words are >conventional (i.e., determined and perpetuated through dialogic >communicative interactions). So the morphology of a term or phrase does not >necessarily have to exhaustively describe the concept you wish to convey. >In fact, if there is any desire for linguistic economy, it is often better >that it not do so in order to avoid overly unwieldy terms. In other words, >it can be conceptually metonymic. You just have to convince other people to >use it in the same way. >Nahuatl usage does include some rather long and complex constructions, so >technically you certainly could formulate a Nahuatl word that conveys a lot >more descriptive detail. And this might even be a more authentic way of >creating a neologism, but I don't think there is any way to make it >completely transparent. >It seems to me that most of the terms you have formulated (with the minor >revisions that I suggested) would work fine. You would just have to define >the terms prior to using them. >I would also just say that as a linguistic exercise, I think that >formulating these types of neologisms can be interesting; but for a >research project on mesoamerican writing, I'm not sure what purpose such >translations would serve. To introduce such neologisms in that context >might run the risk of giving people the impression that these were organic >Nahuatl concepts. >At the most general level, there are two theoretical approaches to >Mesoamerican writing. One would attempt to understand the writing systems >using indigenous concepts. The other approach relies on Western theories of >language, writing, and semiotics. (Of course, there are different >theoretical approaches within the more general category of Western theory, >and maybe within the indigenous perspective as well.) There are those who >will advocate a strictly indigenous perspective, because according to this >view imposing Western concepts effects a sort of violence on indigenous >culture. I see value in both approaches. It seems to me that they are >different sorts of projects. But I think it is important not to ascribe any >sort of inherent conceptual paradigm to the object of study itself. I'm not >sure if that is what you are attempting to do, but I thought I would just >include this cautionary note, for whatever it is worth. > >Best, >Galen > > > > > > > >David Becraft wrote: >>Mr. Brokaw, >> >>Thank you for your help! The calques I suggested; do they make sense in >>contrast to the Greek terms? Are there other words that could be used to >>further define these concepts of writing? Any other suggestions besides >>what I presented as calques? >> >>Thank you, >> >>Pancho Becraft >> >> >>>From: Galen Brokaw >>>To: David Becraft >>>Subject: Re: [Aztlan] Calcos? Calque? >>>Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 18:17:35 -0400 >>> >>>David, >>>I would just point out a couple of things. First, all of the English >>>words you have listed are nouns, but most of the Nahuatl definitions are >>>verbs. The noun form of the verb "cuiloa" which refers to writing is >>>"tlacuilolli." Just converting the "cuiloa" portion of your terms into >>>"cuilolli" would probably solve this problem. See other comments below. >>> >>> >>>>Any suggestions? >>>> >>>>Semasiography--------------------------------------------------------Nezcayoticuiloa >>>> >>> >>>I don't think you need the "ti" in there. I think it should just be >>>"nezcayocuilolli." >>> >>>> >>>>Glottography-----------------------------------------------------------Nenepilcuiloa >>>> >>> >>>Nenepilcuilolli >>> >>>> >>>>Logography------------------------------------------------------------Tlatolcuiloa >>>> >>> >>>The difficulty here is that "tlahtolli" is a more general term meaning >>>"speech," but that often has the meaning "word" in translation. Other >>>terms that are often translated as "word" are "camatl" and "tentli," >>>which literally mean "mouth" and "lip" respectively; but again, they are >>>also more general. Even when they specified adding "cen" on the >>>beginning, which means "one" as in "cencamatl," it doesn't necessarily >>>mean "one word." It can mean "one statement." It seems to me that the >>>closest you could come to conveying the actual meaning of "logography," >>>you would have to use some sort of modifier such as "nenecni," "iyoca," >>>or "noncua" (or even better "nononcua"), which all convey the idea of >>>something like "separately." Another possibility of which I'm not exactly >>>sure is to use "xelihui" in there somewhere, which means "to split." >>>Of course, these are neologisms anyway, so you can always just decide on >>>a term like "tlahtolcuilolli" this and define its use as "logography." >>> >>>> >>>>Phonography----------------------------------------------------------Caquizcuiloa >>>> >>> >>>caquizcuilolli >>> >>>> >>>>Syllable-----------------------------------------------------------------Tlatolcotonqui >>>> >>> >>>same issues as with tlahtolcuilolli. You might also use just >>>"tlatoltontli." There are other possibilities that might better convey >>>the notion of "a piece of a word/speech"; but there is no getting around >>>the conceptual barrier. >>> >>>> >>>>Sign >>>>(phoneme)-------------------------------------------------------Nezcayotl >>>> >>> >>>Nezcayotl works as sign, but as I'm sure you know, "sign" is not the same >>>as "phoneme." >>> >>> >>>>Graphic >>>>Sign----------------------------------------------------------Nezcayocuiloa >>>> >>> >>>Technically, I think you might want to use "tlacuilolnezcayotl." >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> >>>>Tlashtlawi, >>>> >>>>David Becraft >>>>Anthropology >>>>Southern Oregon University >>>>Ashland, Oregon >>>> >>>>becraftd at students.sou.edu >>>> >>>>_________________________________________________________________ >>>>http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=hmtextlinkjuly07 >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>Aztlan mailing list >>>>Aztlan at lists.famsi.org >>>>http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/aztlan >>>> >>>> >>> >> >>_________________________________________________________________ >>http://liveearth.msn.com >> >> > _________________________________________________________________ http://liveearth.msn.com _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Thu Jul 19 18:57:35 2007 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 14:57:35 -0400 Subject: [Aztlan] Calcos? Calque? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hasn't John Sullivan already coined and circulated a host of linguistic terms for Nahuatl? I seem to remember having seen something like that from him. Melahuac? Michael Quoting David Becraft : > Brokawtzin, > > The reason I want to use these Nahuatl terms is because I am trying > to distance myself from the > theory of the "evolution of writing" as espoused by Bishop Warburton > and I.J. Gelb. Terms such as "hieroglyph", "glyph", "pictograph", > and "ideograph" are ambiguous concepts, as well as ethnocentric. As > it is common with many scientists to use non-english words for > scientific terminology by using Greek or Latin roots, I am also > trying to use non-Greek/Latin roots for further developing a > "writing" terminology in Nahuatl. > > The Nahuatl terms I propose are obviously not organic Nahuatl > concepts per say; But the theoretical application of these terms are > important since Mesoamerican (specifically Central Mexican) writing > was based primarily on "Semasiography" and served as a mixed system > of writing which included "Logography", "Phoneticism", and "Syllabic" > elements. The Greek words themselves only serve to conceptualize the > concept of writing as a theoretical function for "Near Eastern" > writing, to quote I.J. Gelb. As can be seen by research, Mesoamerica > developed writing independently of Near Eastern cultures, and as > such, a well developed terminology for studying the "mixed" system of > writing in Mesoamerica is integral for continued research in this > area. > > In order to explain "Semasiography" as applied to Mesoamerican > writing, I think that a terminology more in tune with an Indigenous > perspective of its lexicon might be helpful in analyzing at least on > a linguistic level the different aspects of writing as understood > semantically and metaphorically; granted, they are calques. > > By these Nahuatl terms, I intend to lay down the foundation for > further analyzing and studying the writing systems as "understood" by > Mesoamericans by using linguistic frameworks that outside of this > current research could potentially be further developed for a > complete study of Mesoamerican writing. These same concepts could be > used in Purepecha, Mazahua, Maya, etc. > > Just to recap (correct me if I'm wrong): > > For *Semasiography* > I proposed: *Nezcayoticuiloa* (I used Nezcayotia instead of Nezcayotl): > Nezcayotia [ne:zka:yo:tia]=to mean, denote, indicate something > (Karttunen 1983:172) > > You proposed: *Nezcayocuilolli* > > The problem I was having with Nezcayotia was that I didn't know what > to do with the "-tia". I had thought: > *Nezcayotiacuiloa* > *Nezcayoticuiloai* > > Does the elimination of "-tia" change the meaning of the word to mean > "Nezcayo(tl)? > > > Once again, Thank you for your feedback, your comments, your > suggetions, and your words of caution; they will all be taken into > consideration. > > David F. Becraft > Anthropology > Southern Oregon University > Ashland, Oregon > http://www.sou.edu/mcnair/scholars/becraft.html > > > > >> From: Galen Brokaw >> To: David Becraft >> CC: Aztlan at lists.famsi.org >> Subject: Re: [Aztlan] Calcos? Calque? >> Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 10:12:44 -0400 >> >> Pancho, >> There is a fundamental difference between defining a word and >> translating it. I'm not sure exactly why you need or want to come up >> with Nahuatl equivalents for the English terms you list, but no >> Nahuatl term is going to be a transparent translation of any of >> those terms, because Nahuatl culture has not conceptualized semiotic >> phenomena in the same way as Western philosophy and linguistics. >> Ultimately, the definition of words are conventional (i.e., >> determined and perpetuated through dialogic communicative >> interactions). So the morphology of a term or phrase does not >> necessarily have to exhaustively describe the concept you wish to >> convey. In fact, if there is any desire for linguistic economy, it >> is often better that it not do so in order to avoid overly unwieldy >> terms. In other words, it can be conceptually metonymic. You just >> have to convince other people to use it in the same way. >> Nahuatl usage does include some rather long and complex >> constructions, so technically you certainly could formulate a >> Nahuatl word that conveys a lot more descriptive detail. And this >> might even be a more authentic way of creating a neologism, but I >> don't think there is any way to make it completely transparent. >> It seems to me that most of the terms you have formulated (with the >> minor revisions that I suggested) would work fine. You would just >> have to define the terms prior to using them. >> I would also just say that as a linguistic exercise, I think that >> formulating these types of neologisms can be interesting; but for a >> research project on mesoamerican writing, I'm not sure what purpose >> such translations would serve. To introduce such neologisms in that >> context might run the risk of giving people the impression that >> these were organic Nahuatl concepts. >> At the most general level, there are two theoretical approaches to >> Mesoamerican writing. One would attempt to understand the writing >> systems using indigenous concepts. The other approach relies on >> Western theories of language, writing, and semiotics. (Of course, >> there are different theoretical approaches within the more general >> category of Western theory, and maybe within the indigenous >> perspective as well.) There are those who will advocate a strictly >> indigenous perspective, because according to this view imposing >> Western concepts effects a sort of violence on indigenous culture. I >> see value in both approaches. It seems to me that they are different >> sorts of projects. But I think it is important not to ascribe any >> sort of inherent conceptual paradigm to the object of study itself. >> I'm not sure if that is what you are attempting to do, but I thought >> I would just include this cautionary note, for whatever it is worth. >> >> Best, >> Galen >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> David Becraft wrote: >>> Mr. Brokaw, >>> >>> Thank you for your help! The calques I suggested; do they make >>> sense in contrast to the Greek terms? Are there other words that >>> could be used to further define these concepts of writing? Any >>> other suggestions besides what I presented as calques? >>> >>> Thank you, >>> >>> Pancho Becraft >>> >>> >>>> From: Galen Brokaw >>>> To: David Becraft >>>> Subject: Re: [Aztlan] Calcos? Calque? >>>> Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 18:17:35 -0400 >>>> >>>> David, >>>> I would just point out a couple of things. First, all of the >>>> English words you have listed are nouns, but most of the Nahuatl >>>> definitions are verbs. The noun form of the verb "cuiloa" which >>>> refers to writing is "tlacuilolli." Just converting the "cuiloa" >>>> portion of your terms into "cuilolli" would probably solve this >>>> problem. See other comments below. >>>> >>>> >>>>> Any suggestions? >>>>> >>>>> Semasiography--------------------------------------------------------Nezcayoticuiloa >>>>> >>>> >>>> I don't think you need the "ti" in there. I think it should just >>>> be "nezcayocuilolli." >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Glottography-----------------------------------------------------------Nenepilcuiloa >>>>> >>>> >>>> Nenepilcuilolli >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Logography------------------------------------------------------------Tlatolcuiloa >>>>> >>>> >>>> The difficulty here is that "tlahtolli" is a more general term >>>> meaning "speech," but that often has the meaning "word" in >>>> translation. Other terms that are often translated as "word" are >>>> "camatl" and "tentli," which literally mean "mouth" and "lip" >>>> respectively; but again, they are also more general. Even when >>>> they specified adding "cen" on the beginning, which means "one" as >>>> in "cencamatl," it doesn't necessarily mean "one word." It can >>>> mean "one statement." It seems to me that the closest you could >>>> come to conveying the actual meaning of "logography," you would >>>> have to use some sort of modifier such as "nenecni," "iyoca," or >>>> "noncua" (or even better "nononcua"), which all convey the idea of >>>> something like "separately." Another possibility of which I'm not >>>> exactly sure is to use "xelihui" in there somewhere, which means >>>> "to split." >>>> Of course, these are neologisms anyway, so you can always just >>>> decide on a term like "tlahtolcuilolli" this and define its use as >>>> "logography." >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Phonography----------------------------------------------------------Caquizcuiloa >>>>> >>>> >>>> caquizcuilolli >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Syllable-----------------------------------------------------------------Tlatolcotonqui >>>>> >>>> >>>> same issues as with tlahtolcuilolli. You might also use just >>>> "tlatoltontli." There are other possibilities that might better >>>> convey the notion of "a piece of a word/speech"; but there is no >>>> getting around the conceptual barrier. >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Sign >>>>> (phoneme)-------------------------------------------------------Nezcayotl >>>>> >>>> >>>> Nezcayotl works as sign, but as I'm sure you know, "sign" is not >>>> the same as "phoneme." >>>> >>>> >>>>> Graphic >>>>> Sign----------------------------------------------------------Nezcayocuiloa >>>>> >>>> >>>> Technically, I think you might want to use "tlacuilolnezcayotl." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Tlashtlawi, >>>>> >>>>> David Becraft >>>>> Anthropology >>>>> Southern Oregon University >>>>> Ashland, Oregon >>>>> >>>>> becraftd at students.sou.edu >>>>> >>>>> _________________________________________________________________ >>>>> http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=hmtextlinkjuly07 >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Aztlan mailing list >>>>> Aztlan at lists.famsi.org >>>>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/aztlan >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> _________________________________________________________________ >>> http://liveearth.msn.com >>> >>> >> > > _________________________________________________________________ > http://liveearth.msn.com > > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From sylvia at famsi.org Thu Jul 19 19:56:54 2007 From: sylvia at famsi.org (sylvia at famsi.org) Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 15:56:54 -0400 Subject: Grantee Reports, Informes & Traducciones en Espanol Message-ID: Hello Listeros, FAMSI announces new grantee research reports: The Kaminaljuyu Sculpture Project: An Expandable Three-Dimensional Database (2007) (Interim Report) by Travis Doering and Lori Collins. http://www.famsi.org/reports/07007/index.html Nuevo en el sitio web de FAMSI: Informe en Espanol: Sacrificio humano y tratamientos mortuorios en el Templo Mayor de Tenochtitlan (2005) por Ximena Chavez Balderas. http://www.famsi.org/reports/05054es/index.html Informes de investigacion de concesionarios traducidos del Ingles al Espanol: Sembrando los Huesos: Una Exploracion Etnoarqueologica de Adoratorios y Depositos de Caceria Alrededor del Lago Atitlan, Guatemala (2005) por Linda A. Brown. http://www.famsi.org/reports/05012es/index.html Haciendo y Manipulando el Ritual en la Ciudad de los Dioses: Produccion y Uso de Figurillas en Teotihuacan, Mexico (2004) por Kristin Sullivan. http://www.famsi.org/reports/03021es/index.html Excavaciones en las Terrazas Agricolas: Resultados de la temporada de Campo del 2004 en Chan, Belice por Andrew R. Wyatt. http://www.famsi.org/reports/03091es/index.html Reconocimiento Arqueologico en Chau Hiix (1995) por Anne Pyburn. http://www.famsi.org/reports/95033es/index.html El Fin de la Civilizacion Pipil Precolombina: Ciudad Vieja, El Salvador (2003) por William R. Fowler. http://www.famsi.org/reports/02091es/index.html Enciclopedia Cultural Nahuatl: Botanica y Zoologia, Rio Balsas, Guerrero (2004) por Jonathan D. Amith. http://www.famsi.org/reports/03049es/index.html Cambios y Continuidades de la Practica Ritual en la Cueva de Chechem Ha, Belice: Informe Sobre las Excavaciones Realizadas Durante la Temporada de Campo 2003 por Holley Moyes. http://www.famsi.org/reports/02086es/index.html Saludos, Sylvia Perrine, Archivist Foundation for the Advancement of Mesoamerican Studies, Inc. http://www.famsi.org/index.html _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From david_becraft at hotmail.com Fri Jul 20 19:07:44 2007 From: david_becraft at hotmail.com (David Becraft) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 12:07:44 -0700 Subject: [Aztlan] Calcos?Calque or Cuiloa (David Becraft) In-Reply-To: <000001c7ca5a$282eeda0$9f7ef451@baert> Message-ID: Mr. Georges, It appears I have created neologisms. That was not my intention though, my intention was to find a word that best describes and defines the type of writing that existed in pre-Hispanic Mesoamerica. Words such as Semasiography, Logography, and Phonetism do not completely define that type of writing. Since Mesoamerican writing was a "mixed system", I am trying to find in either the primary sources or as a new "neologism" the correct concept to explain pre-Hispanic writing. One cannot say that Mesoamerican writing was merely Logographic, nor purely Phonetic, nor purely Semasiographic; though Semasiography was at least 80% of the bulk (Wright 2004: Seminario de Codices). Yes, the word "cuiloa" I was intent on using for the Greek term "graph(y)". But I was also trying to find a word that best represented the type of mixed system that existed. My use of the word Nezcayotia, "to mean, denote, or indicate something" (Karttunen 1992: 172) was to hopefully serve the function of explaining what "we" call "mixed writing". Of course, I doubt that Mesoamericans thought of their writing as "mixed" since this of course is a modern concept based on "Near Eastern" theories of writing. By "Cotonqui" (Molina or Simeon; I don't have my dictionaries at the moment), it was meant to define a "fragment, division or small part" of a word. I was told that "-tontli" was enough though. Thank you for your comments. David F. Becraft Anthropology Southern Oregon University Ashland, Oregon http://www.sou.edu/mcnair/scholars/becraft.html >From: >To: "Aztlan" >Subject: [Aztlan] Calcos?Calque or Cuiloa (David Becraft) >Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 01:11:37 +0200 > >Pancho Villas > >I think that the words you have indicated are not exactly pure Nahuatl >words, but like Galen Brokaw mentioned a sort of pure neologism. > >It is clearly visible that the words you have made are composed of >different >Nahuatl words. > >Several times you have used the word "cuiloa", as a suffix, for the English >"graphy". > >"cuiloa" or in fact "ihcuiloa" (acc.Sah), as a transitive verb, means: to >write, to draw or to paint. > > >From all the words you have indicated, there is only 1 word usable: >"Nezcayotl" (acc.Sah), > >what means: sign, token (Esp.:regalo, propina). > >What you really mean by "phoneme", I don't know, or is it phon(e)y (fals, >faken). > >"Caqui" (acc.Sah) v.t.: to hear, to listen > >"Caquizti": it sounds good. > >"Caquiztiliztli": a sound. > >"Nenepilco" (acc.Sah): on the "nenepilli", a locative, on the tongue. >(Esp.:lenqua). > >"Nenepilcuaitl": at the end of the tongue. > >What you mean by "Tlatol", and "cotonqu" I don't know. > > > >Lahun Ik 62 > >Baert Georges > >Flanders Fields > > > >_______________________________________________ >Aztlan mailing list >Aztlan at lists.famsi.org >http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/aztlan _________________________________________________________________ http://newlivehotmail.com _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx Wed Jul 25 01:16:13 2007 From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 20:16:13 -0500 Subject: Convocatoria, plaza en Guanajuato Message-ID: Estimados colegas: Solicito su apoyo para difundir la convocatoria anexa, para una plaza de tiempo completo en la Facultad de Filosofía y Letras de la Universidad de Guanajuato. Estamos buscando un doctor en las áreas de lingüística, ciencias del lenguaje, filología, antropología lingüística o teoría literaria. Agradezco de antemano su atención. Saludos cordiales, David Wright UNIVERSIDAD DE GUANAJUATO FACULTAD DE FILOSOFIA Y LETRAS C O N V O C A T O R I A De acuerdo a lo previsto en el Título Primero, Capítulo 1, Artículos 7 al 23 referidos al proceso de ingreso y permanencia del Estatuto del Personal Académico, vigente en la Universidad de Guanajuato, la Facultad de Filosofía y Letras convoca a los interesados en concursar para ocupar una plaza del Programa de Mejoramiento del Profesorado (PROMEP), de nueva creación, como profesor de carrera de 40 horas (tiempo completo), para desempeñar las funciones de Docencia, Investigación, Extensión, y Gestión, en el área de Letras Españolas, dentro del Cuerpo Académico de Teorías Estéticas, en la Línea de Generación y Aplicación del Conocimiento de temas relacionados con lingüística. Para concursar deberá cumplir los siguientes REQUISITOS: 1. Presentar al Comité de Ingreso y Permanencia solicitud por escrito, con exposición de motivos, aceptando participar en la presente promoción en los términos y condiciones que se fijan en la misma. Indicando la dirección postal, dirección electrónica, teléfono y el medio más adecuado para establecer contacto con el aspirante. 2. Presentar Curriculum Vitae y en fotocopia legible, los documentos probatorios que avalen su formación académica, trayectoria y logros obtenidos. 3. Contar con el grado de Doctor en el campo de la lingüística, ciencias de lenguaje, filología, antropología lingüística o teoría literaria. 4. Pertenecer al Sistema Nacional de Investigadores (SNI) o en su caso, acreditar los requisitos para postular su ingreso. 5. Demostrar con publicaciones y trabajos, capacidad para realizar investigaciones en el área de su competencia. 6. Contar con experiencia docente en programas de licenciatura y postgrado. 7. Proporcionar datos (dirección, teléfono y correo electrónico) de tres personas que puedan ofrecer referencias sobre su desempeño académico 8. Presentar un Plan de Trabajo que incluya Proyecto de Investigación acorde al Cuerpo Académico al que vaya a pertenecer. 9. Estar en condiciones para integrarse de inmediato a la Unidad Académica. FUNCIONES A DESEMPEÑAR: 1. Las funciones sustantivas de la Universidad de Guanajuato: docencia, investigación y extensión, en el área de los estudios del lenguaje dentro del programa de licenciatura en Letras Españolas. 2. Cumplir con los rubros establecidos en los artículos 10 del Estatuto Académico y cuarto del Estatuto del Personal Académico de la Universidad de Guanajuato. 3. Dirección de tesis. 4. Participar en colaboración con los profesores del programa de Letras Españolas en la planeación y desarrollo de los programas de redacción universitaria y español como lengua extranjera, así como con los profesores de los diferentes programas que desarrolla la Facultad de Filosofía y Letras. 5. Colaborar con los profesores tanto del programa de Letras Españolas en la planeación y desarrollo del postgrado en literatura hispanoamericana, en los aspectos que competan al área de lengua, así como en los otros programas de la Facultad, de acuerdo con su experiencia y área profesional. 6. Realizar tutorías de acuerdo a los programas vigentes. 7. Disponibilidad para participar en la vida colegiada de la Unidad Académica y de la Universidad y en actividades de gestión y administración académica cuando se requiera. PROCEDIMIENTOS PARA LA EVALUACIÓN: * Fase de análisis curricular, en la cual se evaluarán: grado académico, trayectoria, perfil, formación en el área requerida y experiencia profesional documentada. Se recibirán las solicitudes a partir de la fecha de emisión de esta convocatoria y hasta el 31 de agosto de 2007. A partir del día 10 de septiembre de 2007 del año en curso, se informará a los interesados el resultado de la fase de análisis curricular. Superada la fase de análisis curricular, a continuación seguirá la; * Fase de entrevista personal con los miembros del Comité de Ingreso y Permanencia de la Facultad de Filosofía y Letras, Se comunicará oportunamente a los aspirantes que hayan superado la fase de análisis curricular, el lugar y hora específica en que deberán acudir a la entrevista, que se realizará el día 19 de septiembre de 2007, a partir de las 10 horas. * Presentación del Plan de Trabajo y proyecto de investigación, así como la exposición de un tema ante los miembros del Comité de Ingreso y Permanencia, mismo que será comunicado a los aspirantes previamente; los aspirantes elegirán la técnica, métodos, materiales y apoyos para el desarrollo de la exposición. * El Comité resolverá sobre las circunstancias no previstas en esta convocatoria. RESULTADOS DE LA EVALUACIÓN ��� El dictamen final se comunicará el día 27 de septiembre de 2007. DE LA ACREDITACIÓN DE LOS ASPIRANTES: Para mayor información, comunicarse con el Maestro José de Jesús Jaime Galván, Secretario Académico de la Facultad de Filosofía y Letras con domicilio en Ex Convento de Valenciana S/N Valenciana, Guanajuato, Gto. C. P. 36240. Tel. (Fax): (01-473)732-06-67, 732-39-08 y 732-74-24 o al correo jjjg at quijote.ugto.mx o con el Coordinador de Letras; Dr. Juan Antonio Pascual Gay, Facultad de Filosofía y Letras con domicilio en Ex Convento de Valenciana S/N Valenciana, Guanajuato, Gto. C. P. 36240. Tel. (Fax): (01-473)732-06-67, 732-39-08 y 732-74-24 o al correo: jpascual_3 at hotmail.com Atentamente, “La Verdad os Hará Libres” Guanajuato, Gto., 6 de junio de 2007. Elaboró: Comité de Ingreso y Permanencia de la Facultad de Filosofía y Letras Comisión Evaluadora del Área de Ciencias Sociales y Humanidades. Dr. Luis Fernando Macias García Dr. David Charles Wright Carr Dr. Antonio Salgado Gómez Dr. Juvencio Robles García Dr. Javier Corona Fernández -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From Irene.Padilla at fmc-na.com Tue Jul 31 15:31:20 2007 From: Irene.Padilla at fmc-na.com (Irene Padilla) Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 08:31:20 -0700 Subject: Translation Message-ID: can someone please help me out. translate SKY FLOWER.. Meaning???? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mixcoatl at gmail.com Tue Jul 31 17:33:23 2007 From: mixcoatl at gmail.com (Geoff Davis) Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 13:33:23 -0400 Subject: Translation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 7/31/07, Irene Padilla wrote: > can someone please help me out. translate SKY FLOWER.. > Meaning???? I'm a newbie, but I'll take a shot at it: ilhuicaxochitl /il 'wi ka "So tSitL/ ilhuica(tl) "sky" + xochi(tl) "flower" Regards, -Geoff _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From chuckert at uv.mx Wed Jul 4 23:05:41 2007 From: chuckert at uv.mx (Huckert Chantal) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 17:05:41 -0600 Subject: Question regarding the meaning of Inextlacuilolli Message-ID: Can someone tell me what inextlacuilolli means. I had a question about acaxilqui but have found the answer in a discussion that the Nahuatl-list members had regarding it in April 2005. Thank you in advance, Chantal Huckert -----Original Message----- From: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org on behalf of nahuatl-request at lists.famsi.org Sent: Wed 7/4/2007 10:59 AM To: Huckert Chantal Subject: Welcome to the "Nahuatl" mailing list (Digest mode) Welcome to the Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org mailing list! The list has been in operation for nearly two decades. It is dedicated to the study of the Nahua people in general and to the Nahuatl language in particular. The list is intended to be a forum where scholars and others can discuss issues related to the Nahua and Nahuatl. In particular scholars embarking on a new area of investigation can use the list to announce their intentions and to pose meaningful questions. Persons translating Nahuatl documents can seek the assistance of the membership in translating particularly difficult words. In short, all types of issues related to the Nahua people and to the Nahuatl language can be shared within the list. While other discussion lists deal more generally with Mesoamerican cultures, such as our sister list AZTLAN, Nahuat-l is the only list purely dedicated to the study of Nahuatl. We all hope that Nahuat-l is respected by professionals and provides a forum that is open to amateurs and novices. However, members are asked to avoid postings on subjects and theories that are not supported by any substantial research in order to maintain the list as one that will be informative and useful for all list members. Those academic 'lurkers' out there are encouraged to participate when they can. If you don't believe that a current thread has any scholarly value, please let me know. Or, better yet, post a well-supported reply in order to educate the group. This list belongs to all of us, and it becomes what we make of it. Thoughtful, reasoned, and regular participation by all members is the key. Please email the list owner directly if you have any questions or concerns. John F. Schwaller - List owner, Nahuat-l nahuatl-owner at lists.famsi.org To post to this list, send your email to: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org General information about the mailing list is at: http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl If you ever want to unsubscribe or change your options (eg, switch to or from digest mode, change your password, etc.), visit your subscription page at: http://www.famsi.org/mailman/options/nahuatl/chuckert%40uv.mx You can also make such adjustments via email by sending a message to: Nahuatl-request at lists.famsi.org with the word `help' in the subject or body (don't include the quotes), and you will get back a message with instructions. You must know your password to change your options (including changing the password, itself) or to unsubscribe. It is: quetzalmiahuayo Normally, Mailman will remind you of your lists.famsi.org mailing list passwords once every month, although you can disable this if you prefer. This reminder will also include instructions on how to unsubscribe or change your account options. There is also a button on your options page that will email your current password to you. -- Este mensaje ha sido analizado por MailScanner en busca de virus y otros contenidos peligrosos, y se considera que est? limpio. Si tiene problemas con alguna direccion de coreo electronico, si quiere reportar correo spam para su bloqueo, o necesita recibir correo electronico de algun sitio en especial que por estar reportado como una direccion de spam en listas negras de Internet no llega: escriba cual es su problema a: depserv at uv.mx For all your IT requirements visit: http://www.transtec.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From kimi_nadiaxxi at yahoo.com Fri Jul 13 14:23:58 2007 From: kimi_nadiaxxi at yahoo.com (Nadia Marin Guadarrama) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 09:23:58 -0500 Subject: Question regarding the meaning of Inextlacuilolli In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Queridos listeros, Hace algunos meses estuvieron comentando acerca de un libro que contiene una compilaci?n de los diferentes c?dices que existen, y de un acad?mico mexicano (creo que de la UNAM) que esta trabajando en un nuevo libro referente al mismo tema, pero mucho m?s actualizado. Desafortunadamente perd? el mensaje, y con ello la informaci?n. Ser?an tan amables de darme los datos del libro y del acad?mico? Se los agradezco mucho, Nadia Mar?n-Guadarrama --- Huckert Chantal escribi?: > > Can someone tell me what inextlacuilolli means. > I had a question about acaxilqui but have found > the answer in a discussion that the > Nahuatl-list members had regarding it in April > 2005. > Thank you in advance, > Chantal Huckert > > -----Original Message----- > From: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org on behalf > of nahuatl-request at lists.famsi.org > Sent: Wed 7/4/2007 10:59 AM > To: Huckert Chantal > Subject: Welcome to the "Nahuatl" mailing list > (Digest mode) > > Welcome to the Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org mailing > list! The list has been > in operation for nearly two decades. It is > dedicated to the study of > the Nahua people in general and to the Nahuatl > language in particular. > The list is intended to be a forum where > scholars and others can > discuss issues related to the Nahua and > Nahuatl. In particular > scholars embarking on a new area of > investigation can use the list to > announce their intentions and to pose > meaningful questions. Persons > translating Nahuatl documents can seek the > assistance of the > membership in translating particularly > difficult words. In short, all > types of issues related to the Nahua people and > to the Nahuatl > language can be shared within the list. While > other discussion lists > deal more generally with Mesoamerican cultures, > such as our sister > list AZTLAN, Nahuat-l is the only list purely > dedicated to the study > of Nahuatl. > > We all hope that Nahuat-l is respected by > professionals and provides a > forum that is open to amateurs and novices. > > However, members are asked to avoid postings on > subjects and theories > that are not supported by any substantial > research in order to > maintain the list as one that will be > informative and useful for all > list members. > > Those academic 'lurkers' out there are > encouraged to participate when > they can. If you don't believe that a current > thread has any > scholarly value, please let me know. Or, > better yet, post a > well-supported reply in order to educate the > group. > > This list belongs to all of us, and it becomes > what we make of it. > Thoughtful, reasoned, and regular participation > by all members is the > key. > > Please email the list owner directly if you > have any questions or > concerns. > > John F. Schwaller - List owner, Nahuat-l > > nahuatl-owner at lists.famsi.org > > > > To post to this list, send your email to: > > nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > > General information about the mailing list is > at: > > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > > If you ever want to unsubscribe or change your > options (eg, switch to > or from digest mode, change your password, > etc.), visit your > subscription page at: > > > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/options/nahuatl/chuckert%40uv.mx > > You can also make such adjustments via email by > sending a message to: > > Nahuatl-request at lists.famsi.org > > with the word `help' in the subject or body > (don't include the > quotes), and you will get back a message with > instructions. > > You must know your password to change your > options (including changing > the password, itself) or to unsubscribe. It > is: > > quetzalmiahuayo > > Normally, Mailman will remind you of your > lists.famsi.org mailing list > passwords once every month, although you can > disable this if you > prefer. This reminder will also include > instructions on how to > unsubscribe or change your account options. > There is also a button on > your options page that will email your current > password to you. > > -- > Este mensaje ha sido analizado por MailScanner > en busca de virus y otros contenidos > peligrosos, > y se considera que est? limpio. > Si tiene problemas con alguna direccion de > coreo electronico, > si quiere reportar correo spam para su bloqueo, > o necesita recibir > correo electronico de algun sitio en especial > que por estar reportado > como una direccion de spam en listas negras de > Internet no llega: > escriba cual es su problema a: depserv at uv.mx > > For all your IT requirements visit: > http://www.transtec.co.uk > > > > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > __________________________________________________ Correo Yahoo! Espacio para todos tus mensajes, antivirus y antispam ?gratis! Reg?strate ya - http://correo.espanol.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From david_becraft at hotmail.com Wed Jul 18 23:57:28 2007 From: david_becraft at hotmail.com (David Becraft) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 16:57:28 -0700 Subject: calcos? calques? Message-ID: Listeros, Estoy haciendo un proyecto de investigacion sobre la escritura Mesoamericana. Me harian un favor immenso con su conocimiento linguistico del Nahuatl? Necesito saber si las siguientes palabras Nahuas podrian corresponder a estos terminos linguisticos de escritura. Tienen logica O me faltan algunos elementos? Tiene alguien otras palabras que se podrian usar? Estos "calcos" provienen de los Diccionarios de Molina, Simeon, y Karttunen. I am working on a research project on Mesoamerican writing. Could those who have the linguistic knowledge in Nahuatl help me out? I need to know whether the following Nahuatl words corrrespond with the linguistic terms of writing. Are they logical or am I missing some elements? Could other words be used? For these "calques" I used the Dictionaries of Molina, Simeon, and Karttunen. Any suggestions? Semasiography--------------------------------------------------------Nezcayoticuiloa Glottography-----------------------------------------------------------Nenepilcuiloa Logography------------------------------------------------------------Tlatolcuiloa Phonography----------------------------------------------------------Caquizcuiloa Syllable-----------------------------------------------------------------Tlatolcotonqui Sign (phoneme)-------------------------------------------------------Nezcayotl Graphic Sign----------------------------------------------------------Nezcayocuiloa Tlashtlawi, David Becraft Anthropology Southern Oregon University Ashland, Oregon becraftd at students.sou.edu _________________________________________________________________ http://liveearth.msn.com _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From david_becraft at hotmail.com Thu Jul 19 18:37:43 2007 From: david_becraft at hotmail.com (David Becraft) Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 11:37:43 -0700 Subject: [Aztlan] Calcos? Calque? In-Reply-To: <469F715C.7050507@buffalo.edu> Message-ID: Brokawtzin, The reason I want to use these Nahuatl terms is because I am trying to distance myself from the theory of the "evolution of writing" as espoused by Bishop Warburton and I.J. Gelb. Terms such as "hieroglyph", "glyph", "pictograph", and "ideograph" are ambiguous concepts, as well as ethnocentric. As it is common with many scientists to use non-english words for scientific terminology by using Greek or Latin roots, I am also trying to use non-Greek/Latin roots for further developing a "writing" terminology in Nahuatl. The Nahuatl terms I propose are obviously not organic Nahuatl concepts per say; But the theoretical application of these terms are important since Mesoamerican (specifically Central Mexican) writing was based primarily on "Semasiography" and served as a mixed system of writing which included "Logography", "Phoneticism", and "Syllabic" elements. The Greek words themselves only serve to conceptualize the concept of writing as a theoretical function for "Near Eastern" writing, to quote I.J. Gelb. As can be seen by research, Mesoamerica developed writing independently of Near Eastern cultures, and as such, a well developed terminology for studying the "mixed" system of writing in Mesoamerica is integral for continued research in this area. In order to explain "Semasiography" as applied to Mesoamerican writing, I think that a terminology more in tune with an Indigenous perspective of its lexicon might be helpful in analyzing at least on a linguistic level the different aspects of writing as understood semantically and metaphorically; granted, they are calques. By these Nahuatl terms, I intend to lay down the foundation for further analyzing and studying the writing systems as "understood" by Mesoamericans by using linguistic frameworks that outside of this current research could potentially be further developed for a complete study of Mesoamerican writing. These same concepts could be used in Purepecha, Mazahua, Maya, etc. Just to recap (correct me if I'm wrong): For *Semasiography* I proposed: *Nezcayoticuiloa* (I used Nezcayotia instead of Nezcayotl): Nezcayotia [ne:zka:yo:tia]=to mean, denote, indicate something (Karttunen 1983:172) You proposed: *Nezcayocuilolli* The problem I was having with Nezcayotia was that I didn't know what to do with the "-tia". I had thought: *Nezcayotiacuiloa* *Nezcayoticuiloai* Does the elimination of "-tia" change the meaning of the word to mean "Nezcayo(tl)? Once again, Thank you for your feedback, your comments, your suggetions, and your words of caution; they will all be taken into consideration. David F. Becraft Anthropology Southern Oregon University Ashland, Oregon http://www.sou.edu/mcnair/scholars/becraft.html >From: Galen Brokaw >To: David Becraft >CC: Aztlan at lists.famsi.org >Subject: Re: [Aztlan] Calcos? Calque? >Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 10:12:44 -0400 > >Pancho, >There is a fundamental difference between defining a word and translating >it. I'm not sure exactly why you need or want to come up with Nahuatl >equivalents for the English terms you list, but no Nahuatl term is going to >be a transparent translation of any of those terms, because Nahuatl culture >has not conceptualized semiotic phenomena in the same way as Western >philosophy and linguistics. Ultimately, the definition of words are >conventional (i.e., determined and perpetuated through dialogic >communicative interactions). So the morphology of a term or phrase does not >necessarily have to exhaustively describe the concept you wish to convey. >In fact, if there is any desire for linguistic economy, it is often better >that it not do so in order to avoid overly unwieldy terms. In other words, >it can be conceptually metonymic. You just have to convince other people to >use it in the same way. >Nahuatl usage does include some rather long and complex constructions, so >technically you certainly could formulate a Nahuatl word that conveys a lot >more descriptive detail. And this might even be a more authentic way of >creating a neologism, but I don't think there is any way to make it >completely transparent. >It seems to me that most of the terms you have formulated (with the minor >revisions that I suggested) would work fine. You would just have to define >the terms prior to using them. >I would also just say that as a linguistic exercise, I think that >formulating these types of neologisms can be interesting; but for a >research project on mesoamerican writing, I'm not sure what purpose such >translations would serve. To introduce such neologisms in that context >might run the risk of giving people the impression that these were organic >Nahuatl concepts. >At the most general level, there are two theoretical approaches to >Mesoamerican writing. One would attempt to understand the writing systems >using indigenous concepts. The other approach relies on Western theories of >language, writing, and semiotics. (Of course, there are different >theoretical approaches within the more general category of Western theory, >and maybe within the indigenous perspective as well.) There are those who >will advocate a strictly indigenous perspective, because according to this >view imposing Western concepts effects a sort of violence on indigenous >culture. I see value in both approaches. It seems to me that they are >different sorts of projects. But I think it is important not to ascribe any >sort of inherent conceptual paradigm to the object of study itself. I'm not >sure if that is what you are attempting to do, but I thought I would just >include this cautionary note, for whatever it is worth. > >Best, >Galen > > > > > > > >David Becraft wrote: >>Mr. Brokaw, >> >>Thank you for your help! The calques I suggested; do they make sense in >>contrast to the Greek terms? Are there other words that could be used to >>further define these concepts of writing? Any other suggestions besides >>what I presented as calques? >> >>Thank you, >> >>Pancho Becraft >> >> >>>From: Galen Brokaw >>>To: David Becraft >>>Subject: Re: [Aztlan] Calcos? Calque? >>>Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 18:17:35 -0400 >>> >>>David, >>>I would just point out a couple of things. First, all of the English >>>words you have listed are nouns, but most of the Nahuatl definitions are >>>verbs. The noun form of the verb "cuiloa" which refers to writing is >>>"tlacuilolli." Just converting the "cuiloa" portion of your terms into >>>"cuilolli" would probably solve this problem. See other comments below. >>> >>> >>>>Any suggestions? >>>> >>>>Semasiography--------------------------------------------------------Nezcayoticuiloa >>>> >>> >>>I don't think you need the "ti" in there. I think it should just be >>>"nezcayocuilolli." >>> >>>> >>>>Glottography-----------------------------------------------------------Nenepilcuiloa >>>> >>> >>>Nenepilcuilolli >>> >>>> >>>>Logography------------------------------------------------------------Tlatolcuiloa >>>> >>> >>>The difficulty here is that "tlahtolli" is a more general term meaning >>>"speech," but that often has the meaning "word" in translation. Other >>>terms that are often translated as "word" are "camatl" and "tentli," >>>which literally mean "mouth" and "lip" respectively; but again, they are >>>also more general. Even when they specified adding "cen" on the >>>beginning, which means "one" as in "cencamatl," it doesn't necessarily >>>mean "one word." It can mean "one statement." It seems to me that the >>>closest you could come to conveying the actual meaning of "logography," >>>you would have to use some sort of modifier such as "nenecni," "iyoca," >>>or "noncua" (or even better "nononcua"), which all convey the idea of >>>something like "separately." Another possibility of which I'm not exactly >>>sure is to use "xelihui" in there somewhere, which means "to split." >>>Of course, these are neologisms anyway, so you can always just decide on >>>a term like "tlahtolcuilolli" this and define its use as "logography." >>> >>>> >>>>Phonography----------------------------------------------------------Caquizcuiloa >>>> >>> >>>caquizcuilolli >>> >>>> >>>>Syllable-----------------------------------------------------------------Tlatolcotonqui >>>> >>> >>>same issues as with tlahtolcuilolli. You might also use just >>>"tlatoltontli." There are other possibilities that might better convey >>>the notion of "a piece of a word/speech"; but there is no getting around >>>the conceptual barrier. >>> >>>> >>>>Sign >>>>(phoneme)-------------------------------------------------------Nezcayotl >>>> >>> >>>Nezcayotl works as sign, but as I'm sure you know, "sign" is not the same >>>as "phoneme." >>> >>> >>>>Graphic >>>>Sign----------------------------------------------------------Nezcayocuiloa >>>> >>> >>>Technically, I think you might want to use "tlacuilolnezcayotl." >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> >>>>Tlashtlawi, >>>> >>>>David Becraft >>>>Anthropology >>>>Southern Oregon University >>>>Ashland, Oregon >>>> >>>>becraftd at students.sou.edu >>>> >>>>_________________________________________________________________ >>>>http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=hmtextlinkjuly07 >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>Aztlan mailing list >>>>Aztlan at lists.famsi.org >>>>http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/aztlan >>>> >>>> >>> >> >>_________________________________________________________________ >>http://liveearth.msn.com >> >> > _________________________________________________________________ http://liveearth.msn.com _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Thu Jul 19 18:57:35 2007 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 14:57:35 -0400 Subject: [Aztlan] Calcos? Calque? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hasn't John Sullivan already coined and circulated a host of linguistic terms for Nahuatl? I seem to remember having seen something like that from him. Melahuac? Michael Quoting David Becraft : > Brokawtzin, > > The reason I want to use these Nahuatl terms is because I am trying > to distance myself from the > theory of the "evolution of writing" as espoused by Bishop Warburton > and I.J. Gelb. Terms such as "hieroglyph", "glyph", "pictograph", > and "ideograph" are ambiguous concepts, as well as ethnocentric. As > it is common with many scientists to use non-english words for > scientific terminology by using Greek or Latin roots, I am also > trying to use non-Greek/Latin roots for further developing a > "writing" terminology in Nahuatl. > > The Nahuatl terms I propose are obviously not organic Nahuatl > concepts per say; But the theoretical application of these terms are > important since Mesoamerican (specifically Central Mexican) writing > was based primarily on "Semasiography" and served as a mixed system > of writing which included "Logography", "Phoneticism", and "Syllabic" > elements. The Greek words themselves only serve to conceptualize the > concept of writing as a theoretical function for "Near Eastern" > writing, to quote I.J. Gelb. As can be seen by research, Mesoamerica > developed writing independently of Near Eastern cultures, and as > such, a well developed terminology for studying the "mixed" system of > writing in Mesoamerica is integral for continued research in this > area. > > In order to explain "Semasiography" as applied to Mesoamerican > writing, I think that a terminology more in tune with an Indigenous > perspective of its lexicon might be helpful in analyzing at least on > a linguistic level the different aspects of writing as understood > semantically and metaphorically; granted, they are calques. > > By these Nahuatl terms, I intend to lay down the foundation for > further analyzing and studying the writing systems as "understood" by > Mesoamericans by using linguistic frameworks that outside of this > current research could potentially be further developed for a > complete study of Mesoamerican writing. These same concepts could be > used in Purepecha, Mazahua, Maya, etc. > > Just to recap (correct me if I'm wrong): > > For *Semasiography* > I proposed: *Nezcayoticuiloa* (I used Nezcayotia instead of Nezcayotl): > Nezcayotia [ne:zka:yo:tia]=to mean, denote, indicate something > (Karttunen 1983:172) > > You proposed: *Nezcayocuilolli* > > The problem I was having with Nezcayotia was that I didn't know what > to do with the "-tia". I had thought: > *Nezcayotiacuiloa* > *Nezcayoticuiloai* > > Does the elimination of "-tia" change the meaning of the word to mean > "Nezcayo(tl)? > > > Once again, Thank you for your feedback, your comments, your > suggetions, and your words of caution; they will all be taken into > consideration. > > David F. Becraft > Anthropology > Southern Oregon University > Ashland, Oregon > http://www.sou.edu/mcnair/scholars/becraft.html > > > > >> From: Galen Brokaw >> To: David Becraft >> CC: Aztlan at lists.famsi.org >> Subject: Re: [Aztlan] Calcos? Calque? >> Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 10:12:44 -0400 >> >> Pancho, >> There is a fundamental difference between defining a word and >> translating it. I'm not sure exactly why you need or want to come up >> with Nahuatl equivalents for the English terms you list, but no >> Nahuatl term is going to be a transparent translation of any of >> those terms, because Nahuatl culture has not conceptualized semiotic >> phenomena in the same way as Western philosophy and linguistics. >> Ultimately, the definition of words are conventional (i.e., >> determined and perpetuated through dialogic communicative >> interactions). So the morphology of a term or phrase does not >> necessarily have to exhaustively describe the concept you wish to >> convey. In fact, if there is any desire for linguistic economy, it >> is often better that it not do so in order to avoid overly unwieldy >> terms. In other words, it can be conceptually metonymic. You just >> have to convince other people to use it in the same way. >> Nahuatl usage does include some rather long and complex >> constructions, so technically you certainly could formulate a >> Nahuatl word that conveys a lot more descriptive detail. And this >> might even be a more authentic way of creating a neologism, but I >> don't think there is any way to make it completely transparent. >> It seems to me that most of the terms you have formulated (with the >> minor revisions that I suggested) would work fine. You would just >> have to define the terms prior to using them. >> I would also just say that as a linguistic exercise, I think that >> formulating these types of neologisms can be interesting; but for a >> research project on mesoamerican writing, I'm not sure what purpose >> such translations would serve. To introduce such neologisms in that >> context might run the risk of giving people the impression that >> these were organic Nahuatl concepts. >> At the most general level, there are two theoretical approaches to >> Mesoamerican writing. One would attempt to understand the writing >> systems using indigenous concepts. The other approach relies on >> Western theories of language, writing, and semiotics. (Of course, >> there are different theoretical approaches within the more general >> category of Western theory, and maybe within the indigenous >> perspective as well.) There are those who will advocate a strictly >> indigenous perspective, because according to this view imposing >> Western concepts effects a sort of violence on indigenous culture. I >> see value in both approaches. It seems to me that they are different >> sorts of projects. But I think it is important not to ascribe any >> sort of inherent conceptual paradigm to the object of study itself. >> I'm not sure if that is what you are attempting to do, but I thought >> I would just include this cautionary note, for whatever it is worth. >> >> Best, >> Galen >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> David Becraft wrote: >>> Mr. Brokaw, >>> >>> Thank you for your help! The calques I suggested; do they make >>> sense in contrast to the Greek terms? Are there other words that >>> could be used to further define these concepts of writing? Any >>> other suggestions besides what I presented as calques? >>> >>> Thank you, >>> >>> Pancho Becraft >>> >>> >>>> From: Galen Brokaw >>>> To: David Becraft >>>> Subject: Re: [Aztlan] Calcos? Calque? >>>> Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 18:17:35 -0400 >>>> >>>> David, >>>> I would just point out a couple of things. First, all of the >>>> English words you have listed are nouns, but most of the Nahuatl >>>> definitions are verbs. The noun form of the verb "cuiloa" which >>>> refers to writing is "tlacuilolli." Just converting the "cuiloa" >>>> portion of your terms into "cuilolli" would probably solve this >>>> problem. See other comments below. >>>> >>>> >>>>> Any suggestions? >>>>> >>>>> Semasiography--------------------------------------------------------Nezcayoticuiloa >>>>> >>>> >>>> I don't think you need the "ti" in there. I think it should just >>>> be "nezcayocuilolli." >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Glottography-----------------------------------------------------------Nenepilcuiloa >>>>> >>>> >>>> Nenepilcuilolli >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Logography------------------------------------------------------------Tlatolcuiloa >>>>> >>>> >>>> The difficulty here is that "tlahtolli" is a more general term >>>> meaning "speech," but that often has the meaning "word" in >>>> translation. Other terms that are often translated as "word" are >>>> "camatl" and "tentli," which literally mean "mouth" and "lip" >>>> respectively; but again, they are also more general. Even when >>>> they specified adding "cen" on the beginning, which means "one" as >>>> in "cencamatl," it doesn't necessarily mean "one word." It can >>>> mean "one statement." It seems to me that the closest you could >>>> come to conveying the actual meaning of "logography," you would >>>> have to use some sort of modifier such as "nenecni," "iyoca," or >>>> "noncua" (or even better "nononcua"), which all convey the idea of >>>> something like "separately." Another possibility of which I'm not >>>> exactly sure is to use "xelihui" in there somewhere, which means >>>> "to split." >>>> Of course, these are neologisms anyway, so you can always just >>>> decide on a term like "tlahtolcuilolli" this and define its use as >>>> "logography." >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Phonography----------------------------------------------------------Caquizcuiloa >>>>> >>>> >>>> caquizcuilolli >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Syllable-----------------------------------------------------------------Tlatolcotonqui >>>>> >>>> >>>> same issues as with tlahtolcuilolli. You might also use just >>>> "tlatoltontli." There are other possibilities that might better >>>> convey the notion of "a piece of a word/speech"; but there is no >>>> getting around the conceptual barrier. >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Sign >>>>> (phoneme)-------------------------------------------------------Nezcayotl >>>>> >>>> >>>> Nezcayotl works as sign, but as I'm sure you know, "sign" is not >>>> the same as "phoneme." >>>> >>>> >>>>> Graphic >>>>> Sign----------------------------------------------------------Nezcayocuiloa >>>>> >>>> >>>> Technically, I think you might want to use "tlacuilolnezcayotl." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Tlashtlawi, >>>>> >>>>> David Becraft >>>>> Anthropology >>>>> Southern Oregon University >>>>> Ashland, Oregon >>>>> >>>>> becraftd at students.sou.edu >>>>> >>>>> _________________________________________________________________ >>>>> http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=hmtextlinkjuly07 >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Aztlan mailing list >>>>> Aztlan at lists.famsi.org >>>>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/aztlan >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> _________________________________________________________________ >>> http://liveearth.msn.com >>> >>> >> > > _________________________________________________________________ > http://liveearth.msn.com > > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From sylvia at famsi.org Thu Jul 19 19:56:54 2007 From: sylvia at famsi.org (sylvia at famsi.org) Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 15:56:54 -0400 Subject: Grantee Reports, Informes & Traducciones en Espanol Message-ID: Hello Listeros, FAMSI announces new grantee research reports: The Kaminaljuyu Sculpture Project: An Expandable Three-Dimensional Database (2007) (Interim Report) by Travis Doering and Lori Collins. http://www.famsi.org/reports/07007/index.html Nuevo en el sitio web de FAMSI: Informe en Espanol: Sacrificio humano y tratamientos mortuorios en el Templo Mayor de Tenochtitlan (2005) por Ximena Chavez Balderas. http://www.famsi.org/reports/05054es/index.html Informes de investigacion de concesionarios traducidos del Ingles al Espanol: Sembrando los Huesos: Una Exploracion Etnoarqueologica de Adoratorios y Depositos de Caceria Alrededor del Lago Atitlan, Guatemala (2005) por Linda A. Brown. http://www.famsi.org/reports/05012es/index.html Haciendo y Manipulando el Ritual en la Ciudad de los Dioses: Produccion y Uso de Figurillas en Teotihuacan, Mexico (2004) por Kristin Sullivan. http://www.famsi.org/reports/03021es/index.html Excavaciones en las Terrazas Agricolas: Resultados de la temporada de Campo del 2004 en Chan, Belice por Andrew R. Wyatt. http://www.famsi.org/reports/03091es/index.html Reconocimiento Arqueologico en Chau Hiix (1995) por Anne Pyburn. http://www.famsi.org/reports/95033es/index.html El Fin de la Civilizacion Pipil Precolombina: Ciudad Vieja, El Salvador (2003) por William R. Fowler. http://www.famsi.org/reports/02091es/index.html Enciclopedia Cultural Nahuatl: Botanica y Zoologia, Rio Balsas, Guerrero (2004) por Jonathan D. Amith. http://www.famsi.org/reports/03049es/index.html Cambios y Continuidades de la Practica Ritual en la Cueva de Chechem Ha, Belice: Informe Sobre las Excavaciones Realizadas Durante la Temporada de Campo 2003 por Holley Moyes. http://www.famsi.org/reports/02086es/index.html Saludos, Sylvia Perrine, Archivist Foundation for the Advancement of Mesoamerican Studies, Inc. http://www.famsi.org/index.html _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From david_becraft at hotmail.com Fri Jul 20 19:07:44 2007 From: david_becraft at hotmail.com (David Becraft) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 12:07:44 -0700 Subject: [Aztlan] Calcos?Calque or Cuiloa (David Becraft) In-Reply-To: <000001c7ca5a$282eeda0$9f7ef451@baert> Message-ID: Mr. Georges, It appears I have created neologisms. That was not my intention though, my intention was to find a word that best describes and defines the type of writing that existed in pre-Hispanic Mesoamerica. Words such as Semasiography, Logography, and Phonetism do not completely define that type of writing. Since Mesoamerican writing was a "mixed system", I am trying to find in either the primary sources or as a new "neologism" the correct concept to explain pre-Hispanic writing. One cannot say that Mesoamerican writing was merely Logographic, nor purely Phonetic, nor purely Semasiographic; though Semasiography was at least 80% of the bulk (Wright 2004: Seminario de Codices). Yes, the word "cuiloa" I was intent on using for the Greek term "graph(y)". But I was also trying to find a word that best represented the type of mixed system that existed. My use of the word Nezcayotia, "to mean, denote, or indicate something" (Karttunen 1992: 172) was to hopefully serve the function of explaining what "we" call "mixed writing". Of course, I doubt that Mesoamericans thought of their writing as "mixed" since this of course is a modern concept based on "Near Eastern" theories of writing. By "Cotonqui" (Molina or Simeon; I don't have my dictionaries at the moment), it was meant to define a "fragment, division or small part" of a word. I was told that "-tontli" was enough though. Thank you for your comments. David F. Becraft Anthropology Southern Oregon University Ashland, Oregon http://www.sou.edu/mcnair/scholars/becraft.html >From: >To: "Aztlan" >Subject: [Aztlan] Calcos?Calque or Cuiloa (David Becraft) >Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 01:11:37 +0200 > >Pancho Villas > >I think that the words you have indicated are not exactly pure Nahuatl >words, but like Galen Brokaw mentioned a sort of pure neologism. > >It is clearly visible that the words you have made are composed of >different >Nahuatl words. > >Several times you have used the word "cuiloa", as a suffix, for the English >"graphy". > >"cuiloa" or in fact "ihcuiloa" (acc.Sah), as a transitive verb, means: to >write, to draw or to paint. > > >From all the words you have indicated, there is only 1 word usable: >"Nezcayotl" (acc.Sah), > >what means: sign, token (Esp.:regalo, propina). > >What you really mean by "phoneme", I don't know, or is it phon(e)y (fals, >faken). > >"Caqui" (acc.Sah) v.t.: to hear, to listen > >"Caquizti": it sounds good. > >"Caquiztiliztli": a sound. > >"Nenepilco" (acc.Sah): on the "nenepilli", a locative, on the tongue. >(Esp.:lenqua). > >"Nenepilcuaitl": at the end of the tongue. > >What you mean by "Tlatol", and "cotonqu" I don't know. > > > >Lahun Ik 62 > >Baert Georges > >Flanders Fields > > > >_______________________________________________ >Aztlan mailing list >Aztlan at lists.famsi.org >http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/aztlan _________________________________________________________________ http://newlivehotmail.com _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx Wed Jul 25 01:16:13 2007 From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 20:16:13 -0500 Subject: Convocatoria, plaza en Guanajuato Message-ID: Estimados colegas: Solicito su apoyo para difundir la convocatoria anexa, para una plaza de tiempo completo en la Facultad de Filosof?a y Letras de la Universidad de Guanajuato. Estamos buscando un doctor en las ?reas de ling??stica, ciencias del lenguaje, filolog?a, antropolog?a ling??stica o teor?a literaria. Agradezco de antemano su atenci?n. Saludos cordiales, David Wright UNIVERSIDAD DE GUANAJUATO FACULTAD DE FILOSOFIA Y LETRAS C O N V O C A T O R I A De acuerdo a lo previsto en el T?tulo Primero, Cap?tulo 1, Art?culos 7 al 23 referidos al proceso de ingreso y permanencia del Estatuto del Personal Acad?mico, vigente en la Universidad de Guanajuato, la Facultad de Filosof?a y Letras convoca a los interesados en concursar para ocupar una plaza del Programa de Mejoramiento del Profesorado (PROMEP), de nueva creaci?n, como profesor de carrera de 40 horas (tiempo completo), para desempe?ar las funciones de Docencia, Investigaci?n, Extensi?n, y Gesti?n, en el ?rea de Letras Espa?olas, dentro del Cuerpo Acad?mico de Teor?as Est?ticas, en la L?nea de Generaci?n y Aplicaci?n del Conocimiento de temas relacionados con ling??stica. Para concursar deber? cumplir los siguientes REQUISITOS: 1. Presentar al Comit? de Ingreso y Permanencia solicitud por escrito, con exposici?n de motivos, aceptando participar en la presente promoci?n en los t?rminos y condiciones que se fijan en la misma. Indicando la direcci?n postal, direcci?n electr?nica, tel?fono y el medio m?s adecuado para establecer contacto con el aspirante. 2. Presentar Curriculum Vitae y en fotocopia legible, los documentos probatorios que avalen su formaci?n acad?mica, trayectoria y logros obtenidos. 3. Contar con el grado de Doctor en el campo de la ling??stica, ciencias de lenguaje, filolog?a, antropolog?a ling??stica o teor?a literaria. 4. Pertenecer al Sistema Nacional de Investigadores (SNI) o en su caso, acreditar los requisitos para postular su ingreso. 5. Demostrar con publicaciones y trabajos, capacidad para realizar investigaciones en el ?rea de su competencia. 6. Contar con experiencia docente en programas de licenciatura y postgrado. 7. Proporcionar datos (direcci?n, tel?fono y correo electr?nico) de tres personas que puedan ofrecer referencias sobre su desempe?o acad?mico 8. Presentar un Plan de Trabajo que incluya Proyecto de Investigaci?n acorde al Cuerpo Acad?mico al que vaya a pertenecer. 9. Estar en condiciones para integrarse de inmediato a la Unidad Acad?mica. FUNCIONES A DESEMPE?AR: 1. Las funciones sustantivas de la Universidad de Guanajuato: docencia, investigaci?n y extensi?n, en el ?rea de los estudios del lenguaje dentro del programa de licenciatura en Letras Espa?olas. 2. Cumplir con los rubros establecidos en los art?culos 10 del Estatuto Acad?mico y cuarto del Estatuto del Personal Acad?mico de la Universidad de Guanajuato. 3. Direcci?n de tesis. 4. Participar en colaboraci?n con los profesores del programa de Letras Espa?olas en la planeaci?n y desarrollo de los programas de redacci?n universitaria y espa?ol como lengua extranjera, as? como con los profesores de los diferentes programas que desarrolla la Facultad de Filosof?a y Letras. 5. Colaborar con los profesores tanto del programa de Letras Espa?olas en la planeaci?n y desarrollo del postgrado en literatura hispanoamericana, en los aspectos que competan al ?rea de lengua, as? como en los otros programas de la Facultad, de acuerdo con su experiencia y ?rea profesional. 6. Realizar tutor?as de acuerdo a los programas vigentes. 7. Disponibilidad para participar en la vida colegiada de la Unidad Acad?mica y de la Universidad y en actividades de gesti?n y administraci?n acad?mica cuando se requiera. PROCEDIMIENTOS PARA LA EVALUACI?N: * Fase de an?lisis curricular, en la cual se evaluar?n: grado acad?mico, trayectoria, perfil, formaci?n en el ?rea requerida y experiencia profesional documentada. Se recibir?n las solicitudes a partir de la fecha de emisi?n de esta convocatoria y hasta el 31 de agosto de 2007. A partir del d?a 10 de septiembre de 2007 del a?o en curso, se informar? a los interesados el resultado de la fase de an?lisis curricular. Superada la fase de an?lisis curricular, a continuaci?n seguir? la; * Fase de entrevista personal con los miembros del Comit? de Ingreso y Permanencia de la Facultad de Filosof?a y Letras, Se comunicar? oportunamente a los aspirantes que hayan superado la fase de an?lisis curricular, el lugar y hora espec?fica en que deber?n acudir a la entrevista, que se realizar? el d?a 19 de septiembre de 2007, a partir de las 10 horas. * Presentaci?n del Plan de Trabajo y proyecto de investigaci?n, as? como la exposici?n de un tema ante los miembros del Comit? de Ingreso y Permanencia, mismo que ser? comunicado a los aspirantes previamente; los aspirantes elegir?n la t?cnica, m?todos, materiales y apoyos para el desarrollo de la exposici?n. * El Comit? resolver? sobre las circunstancias no previstas en esta convocatoria. RESULTADOS DE LA EVALUACI?N ??? El dictamen final se comunicar? el d?a 27 de septiembre de 2007. DE LA ACREDITACI?N DE LOS ASPIRANTES: Para mayor informaci?n, comunicarse con el Maestro Jos? de Jes?s Jaime Galv?n, Secretario Acad?mico de la Facultad de Filosof?a y Letras con domicilio en Ex Convento de Valenciana S/N Valenciana, Guanajuato, Gto. C. P. 36240. Tel. (Fax): (01-473)732-06-67, 732-39-08 y 732-74-24 o al correo jjjg at quijote.ugto.mx o con el Coordinador de Letras; Dr. Juan Antonio Pascual Gay, Facultad de Filosof?a y Letras con domicilio en Ex Convento de Valenciana S/N Valenciana, Guanajuato, Gto. C. P. 36240. Tel. (Fax): (01-473)732-06-67, 732-39-08 y 732-74-24 o al correo: jpascual_3 at hotmail.com Atentamente, ?La Verdad os Har? Libres? Guanajuato, Gto., 6 de junio de 2007. Elabor?: Comit? de Ingreso y Permanencia de la Facultad de Filosof?a y Letras Comisi?n Evaluadora del ?rea de Ciencias Sociales y Humanidades. Dr. Luis Fernando Macias Garc?a Dr. David Charles Wright Carr Dr. Antonio Salgado G?mez Dr. Juvencio Robles Garc?a Dr. Javier Corona Fern?ndez -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From Irene.Padilla at fmc-na.com Tue Jul 31 15:31:20 2007 From: Irene.Padilla at fmc-na.com (Irene Padilla) Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 08:31:20 -0700 Subject: Translation Message-ID: can someone please help me out. translate SKY FLOWER.. Meaning???? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mixcoatl at gmail.com Tue Jul 31 17:33:23 2007 From: mixcoatl at gmail.com (Geoff Davis) Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 13:33:23 -0400 Subject: Translation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 7/31/07, Irene Padilla wrote: > can someone please help me out. translate SKY FLOWER.. > Meaning???? I'm a newbie, but I'll take a shot at it: ilhuicaxochitl /il 'wi ka "So tSitL/ ilhuica(tl) "sky" + xochi(tl) "flower" Regards, -Geoff _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl