From oenthomas at gmail.com Sat Sep 1 00:07:47 2007 From: oenthomas at gmail.com (Owen Thomas) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 17:07:47 -0700 Subject: Morphemes, Graphemes Message-ID: Listeros, I understand part of the Linguistics according to Andrews. My question: since the original memory system for Nahuatl was graphic has anyone attempted to index, or produce a lexicon, based on graphic elements in Nahua codices? Success in deciphering the remains of Mayan carving leads me to wonder if the Verbal and Nominal complexes could be understood from a graphic approach. Sahagun concentrated on a sort of lexical approach by use of phonemes. Has any graphic lexeme survived or is anyone attempting to create such a lexicon? -- We are connected Owen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx Sun Sep 2 20:50:32 2007 From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright) Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 15:50:32 -0500 Subject: Morphemes, Graphemes In-Reply-To: <1dde854d0708311707s3ac8df4fscbcd119fdca62ccc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Owen: You just opened up a big can of worms. People have been arguing about this for over two centuries and they're still at it. I've been looking hard at this question for the last decade or so, and I'll briefly summarize what I've come up with. Part of the problem are our European semantic categories of "writing" and "visual arts". Central Mexican pictorial writing is right on the blurry border, and ancient Mesoamericans didn't really distinguish between the two concepts, as the early colonial vocabularies reveal. The old (and today largely discarded) concept of the "evolution" of writing systems, in which alphabetic writing is supposedly more advanced and "civilized" than "primitive" picture writing, is another problem. Overzealous defenders of the relative sophistication of Mesoamerican civilization have tended to exaggerate the phonographic nature of central Mexican picture writing, in order to claim a higher rung on the evolutionary ladder for the natives of this region. Central Mexican pictorial writing, in general, is essentially semasiographic, which means that most of the painted or carved signs represent ideas, which can be expressed in any of the many languages spoken by people who participated in the plurilinguistic culture of this region. (By "central Mexico" I mean most of Mesoamerica, excluding much of western Mexico, whose participation in this graphic system was minimal, and the Maya region, where a different graphic tradition emerged.) Another problem is that people tend to simplistically equate linguistic groups with "cultures", when in reality language is but one of many overlapping aspects, with blurry borders, that constitute culture. This rich and complex system of visual communication, while essentially semasiographic, also lends itself to homophonic (or quasi-homophonic) word play, like rebus writing, in which a pictorial sign representing one thing is used to express something else, exploiting the fact that both ideas are associated with identical or similar sounds. A classic example is the representation of teeth, in association with some other sign (for example a stylized representation of a mountain), to express the Nahua postposition -tlan ("next to/near/with/under/in/inside", usually preceded by the ligature -ti-) or the locative suffix -tla:n ("with/in/between/next to/place of"). This is possible because in Nahuatl the word for "tooth" or "teeth" is tlantli, whose absolutive suffix -tli is detachable. Similar homophonic word play has been found in pre-Hispanic historical manuscripts from the Mixteca region, and there are possible examples from early colonial Otomi manuscripts (see articles on my web site, the link to which is at the end of this message). Thus the Nahua, the Mixtecs, the Otomi and other linguistic communities that participated in the central Mexican cultural system painted and carved the same signs and understood each other through the same pictorial language, whose roots go back to Olmec times (ca. 1200-600 B.C.) Occasionally they employed the homophonic principle to create glottographs, which can be subdivided into logographs (expressing morphemes or words, as in the example given in the preceding paragraph) and phonographs (expressing syllables or phonemes). The pre-Hispanic texts from central Mexico have fewer glottographs than some of the colonial period texts; this may be due to the influence of European phonographic (i.e. alphabetic) writing in the latter. During the early colonial period some native scribes produced purely semasiographic manusripts, while others developed a style that includes an abundance of logographic and phonographic signs, particularly in the Texcoco region. I'm using Geoffrey Sampson's terminology here because the words usually used by Mesoamericanists can be somewhat vague and ambiguous, having been the source of quite a bit of misunderstanding and fruitless discussion. This said, yes, there have been many attempts at producing pictorial dictionaries based on Nahua codices. Some of the more notable are: José Ignacio Borunda (18th century); José Fernando Ramírez Álvarez (mid-19th century), whose card file was used after his death by Manuel Orozco y Berra (late 19th century); Robert H. Barlow and Byron McAfee (study published in 1949), and Joaquín Galarza, in several studies (ca. 1980-2000). Galarza's disciples continue with his method; among them are Marc Thouvenot, Luz María Mohar Betancourt, etc. Several digital editions are forthcoming. See also the studies published in the 1992 edition of the Codex Mendoza, edited by Berdan and Anawalt. Saludos, David Wright http://www.paginasprodigy.com/dcwright/ _____ De: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org [mailto:nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org] En nombre de Owen Thomas Enviado el: Viernes, 31 de Agosto de 2007 07:08 p.m. Para: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org Asunto: [Nahuat-l] Morphemes, Graphemes Listeros, I understand part of the Linguistics according to Andrews. My question: since the original memory system for Nahuatl was graphic has anyone attempted to index, or produce a lexicon, based on graphic elements in Nahua codices? Success in deciphering the remains of Mayan carving leads me to wonder if the Verbal and Nominal complexes could be understood from a graphic approach. Sahagun concentrated on a sort of lexical approach by use of phonemes. Has any graphic lexeme survived or is anyone attempting to create such a lexicon? -- We are connected Owen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From sylvia at famsi.org Thu Sep 6 20:07:16 2007 From: sylvia at famsi.org (sylvia at famsi.org) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 16:07:16 -0400 Subject: Mesoamerican Language Texts Digitization Project Message-ID: Hello Listeros, The Mesoamerican Language Texts Digitization Project developed from a desire to make available to scholars, students, and enthusiasts world-wide, a selection of primary documents pertaining to the ethnohistory and linguistics of the indigenous populations of Mexico and northern Central America. This is a collaborative arrangement between Sandra Noble, Ph.D., Executive Director, FAMSI, and the Libraries of the University of Pennsylvania. The selection of titles to be included was made by John M. Weeks, Ph.D., Librarian of the University of Pennsylvania Museum. FAMSI is pleased to announce 19 newly-posted manuscripts in the Mesoamerican Language Texts Digitization Project: http://www.famsi.org/new.htm To learn more about this joint project of FAMSI and the University of Pennsylvania Libraries, click here: http://www.famsi.org/research/mltdp/index.html To view the catalog of rare manuscripts currently available online, click here: http://www.famsi.org/research/mltdp/catalog.htm Foundation for the Advancement of Mesoamerican Studies, Inc. _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From idiez at mac.com Tue Sep 11 19:44:40 2007 From: idiez at mac.com (John Sullivan, Ph.D.) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 14:44:40 -0500 Subject: Why is a swallow called a swallow? Message-ID: Bien Listeros, That's the question I have: Why is a swallow (the bird) called a swallow? In Classical Nahuatl, "swallow" is "cui:cui:tzcatl". The plural form, given by Fran, is "cui:cui:tzcanih", suggesting a verbal origin for the word. I would say either "cui:cui:tzihui" or "cui:cui:tzoa", because their preterite forms, "cui:cui:tziuh" and "cui:cui:tzoh" would have the option of shortening to "cui:cui:tz" when combining with something else, such as the preterite agentive "-qui/-ca-". The reason is wrote this mail is that there is a verb in Huastecan Nahuatl, "cui:tzoa, nimo" which means "to have something stuck in your throat". There is a related verb "cui:tzihui", which is only used with "tlan(tli)", "tooth". "tlancui:tzihui, ni.", means "the bare or show your teeth". So anyway, why is a swallow called a swallow? John John Sullivan, Ph.D. Profesor de lengua y cultura nahua Universidad Autónoma de Zacatecas Instituto de Docencia e Investigación Etnológica de Zacatecas, A.C. Tacuba 152, int. 47 Centro Histórico Zacatecas, Zac. 98000 México Oficina: +52 (492) 925-3415 Fax: +52 (492) 925-3416 Domicilio: +52 (492) 768-6048 Celular: +52 (492) 118-0854 idiez at mac.com www.idiez.org.mx www.macehualli.org  -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: John Sullivan, Ph.D..vcf Type: text/directory Size: 33602 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From dfrye at umich.edu Tue Sep 11 20:31:10 2007 From: dfrye at umich.edu (Frye, David) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 16:31:10 -0400 Subject: Why is a swallow called a swallow? In-Reply-To: <7620D5C0-8488-4DCB-A95F-F3FC90DDF518@mac.com> Message-ID: John, The OED shows no connection between the verb/action "swallow" and the bird "swallow" in English. Both words go back to Old English, when the bird was "swealwe", "swalwe," "swalu," etc; the verb was "swelghan", "swilhdh", "swealgh", etc. (with many more forms in the various conjugations, notably the ppl. "forswoleghed"), and the related noun (now meaning "a gulp" but originally meaning "a pit") was "swelh" and variations. Note the different vowels in the first syllable, which (not knowing an iota about Old English) I must assume is relevent to concluding that these clouds of words are different. The OED helpfully notes: "The encroachment of the o of the pa. pple. and the a of the pa. tense upon the pres. stem is evidenced from the 12th and 13th centuries respectively; it was perhaps furthered by association with SWALLOW n.1 [=the bird]." From: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org [mailto:nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org] On Behalf Of John Sullivan, Ph.D. Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2007 3:45 PM To: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org Subject: [Nahuat-l] Why is a swallow called a swallow? Bien Listeros, That's the question I have: Why is a swallow (the bird) called a swallow? In Classical Nahuatl, "swallow" is "cui:cui:tzcatl". The plural form, given by Fran, is "cui:cui:tzcanih", suggesting a verbal origin for the word. I would say either "cui:cui:tzihui" or "cui:cui:tzoa", because their preterite forms, "cui:cui:tziuh" and "cui:cui:tzoh" would have the option of shortening to "cui:cui:tz" when combining with something else, such as the preterite agentive "-qui/-ca-". The reason is wrote this mail is that there is a verb in Huastecan Nahuatl, "cui:tzoa, nimo" which means "to have something stuck in your throat". There is a related verb "cui:tzihui", which is only used with "tlan(tli)", "tooth". "tlancui:tzihui, ni.", means "the bare or show your teeth". So anyway, why is a swallow called a swallow? John John Sullivan, Ph.D. Profesor de lengua y cultura nahua Universidad Autónoma de Zacatecas Instituto de Docencia e Investigación Etnológica de Zacatecas, A.C. Tacuba 152, int. 47 Centro Histórico Zacatecas, Zac. 98000 México Oficina: +52 (492) 925-3415 Fax: +52 (492) 925-3416 Domicilio: +52 (492) 768-6048 Celular: +52 (492) 118-0854 idiez at mac.com www.idiez.org.mx www.macehualli.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From a.appleyard at btinternet.com Tue Sep 11 22:13:37 2007 From: a.appleyard at btinternet.com (ANTHONY APPLEYARD) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 23:13:37 +0100 Subject: Why is a swallow called a swallow? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- "Frye, David" wrote: > The OED shows no connection between the verb/action "swallow" and the > bird "swallow" in English. Both words go back to Old English, when > the bird was "swealwe", "swalwe," "swalu," etc; the verb was > "swelghan", "swilhdh", "swealgh", etc. (with many more forms in the > various conjugations, notably the ppl. "forswoleghed"), and the > related noun (now meaning "a gulp" but originally meaning "a pit") > was "swelh" and variations. Note the different vowels in the first > syllable, which (not knowing an iota about Old English) I must assume > is relevent to concluding that these clouds of words are different. > The OED helpfully notes: "The encroachment of the o of the pa. pple. > and the a of the pa. tense upon the pres. stem is evidenced from the > 12th and 13th centuries respectively; it was perhaps furthered by > association with SWALLOW n.1 [=the bird]." The original Common Germanic forms were presumably [swalw-] for the bird, and [swelg-] for the verb; the rest is Anglo-Saxon vowel-breaking and umlauting and the [gh] sound gradually changing to [w], and suchlike. The [gh] spellings above are likely someone's transcription of the Anglo-Saxon way of writing lowercase g, which in Common Germanic was pronounced as a fricative [gh]. About Nahuatl [cui:cui:tzcatl] for "swallow" (the bird): there is also [cui_ca] = "to sing", and swallows sing sometimes. Citlalyani. _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From dfrye at umich.edu Tue Sep 11 23:09:10 2007 From: dfrye at umich.edu (Frye, David) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 19:09:10 -0400 Subject: Why is a swallow called a swallow? Message-ID: The [gh] spellings are my own fault. The OED uses the Old English letter "yogh" (look it up, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yogh, if you want to see what it looks like), which I have no way of representing by email. My understanding is that yogh originally represented a voiced velar fricative. I have only heard the sound in real life when I was in Turkey and heard how "yoghurt" is really supposed to be pronounced; I've also heard it via radio in interviews with people from Gaza (or more properly, Ghazza). Sorry about the extended off-topic etymologies. I guess my larger point is that sometimes seemingly logical similarities between words are just coincidences, though sometimes these coincidences can be reinforced by folk etymologies (or even by puns, I suppose). ________________________________ From: ANTHONY APPLEYARD [mailto:a.appleyard at btinternet.com] Sent: Tue 9/11/2007 6:13 PM To: Frye, David; nahuatl at lists.famsi.org Subject: RE: [Nahuat-l] Why is a swallow called a swallow? The original Common Germanic forms were presumably [swalw-] for the bird, and [swelg-] for the verb; the rest is Anglo-Saxon vowel-breaking and umlauting and the [gh] sound gradually changing to [w], and suchlike. The [gh] spellings above are likely someone's transcription of the Anglo-Saxon way of writing lowercase g, which in Common Germanic was pronounced as a fricative [gh]. About Nahuatl [cui:cui:tzcatl] for "swallow" (the bird): there is also [cui_ca] = "to sing", and swallows sing sometimes. Citlalyani. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From k_salmon at ipinc.net Wed Sep 12 04:02:37 2007 From: k_salmon at ipinc.net (Kier Salmon) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 21:02:37 -0700 Subject: Why is a swallow called a swallow? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Given that they hear spanish most frequently, not English... Golondrina/tragar... sound nothing alike. On Sep 11, 2007, at 4:09 PM, Frye, David wrote: > The [gh] spellings are my own fault. The OED uses the Old English > letter "yogh" (look it up, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yogh, if > you want to see what it looks like), which I have no way of > representing by email. My understanding is that yogh originally > represented a voiced velar fricative. I have only heard the sound > in real life when I was in Turkey and heard how "yoghurt" is really > supposed to be pronounced; I've also heard it via radio in > interviews with people from Gaza (or more properly, Ghazza). > > Sorry about the extended off-topic etymologies. I guess my larger > point is that sometimes seemingly logical similarities between > words are just coincidences, though sometimes these coincidences > can be reinforced by folk etymologies (or even by puns, I suppose). > > > > From: ANTHONY APPLEYARD [mailto:a.appleyard at btinternet.com] > Sent: Tue 9/11/2007 6:13 PM > To: Frye, David; nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > Subject: RE: [Nahuat-l] Why is a swallow called a swallow? > > The original Common Germanic forms were presumably [swalw-] for the > bird, and [swelg-] for the verb; the rest is Anglo-Saxon vowel- > breaking > and umlauting and the [gh] sound gradually changing to [w], and > suchlike. The [gh] spellings above are likely someone's transcription > of the Anglo-Saxon way of writing lowercase g, which in Common > Germanic > was pronounced as a fricative [gh]. > > About Nahuatl [cui:cui:tzcatl] for "swallow" (the bird): there is also > [cui_ca] = "to sing", and swallows sing sometimes. > > Citlalyani. > > > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From sylvia at famsi.org Wed Sep 12 17:49:58 2007 From: sylvia at famsi.org (sylvia at famsi.org) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 13:49:58 -0400 Subject: Publication & Citation / Publicacion y Citacion--FAMSI research materials Message-ID: Hola Listeros, The Foundation often receives requests for publication use of FAMSI images and questions on how to cite sources from the FAMSI website. In response to this type of inquiry, we provide the following guidelines: Publication and Citation: http://www.famsi.org/research/copyright.htm Publicacion y Citacion--materiales de investigacion de FAMSI La Fundacion recibe a menudo solicitudes para usar imagenes de FAMSI en publicaciones y preguntas de como citar fuentes de la pagina web de FAMSI. En respuesta a este tipo de preguntas, les proveemos con las siguientes direcciones: Publicacion y Citacion: http://www.famsi.org/spanish/research/copyright.htm Saludos, Sylvia Perrine, Archivist Foundation for the Advancement of Mesoamerican Studies, Inc. http://www.famsi.org/index.html http://www.famsi.org/spanish/ _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mcdo0030 at umn.edu Sun Sep 16 22:44:46 2007 From: mcdo0030 at umn.edu (Kelly McDonough) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 17:44:46 -0500 Subject: chicomexochitl and the deer Message-ID: Pialli, In Hernando Ruiz de Alarcón’s “Tratado de las supersticiones y costumbres gentílicas que hoy viven entre los indios naturales de esta Nueva España,” the Spanish translation of the nahuatl “chicomexochitl” tends to appear as “siete flores (el venado).” Is this simply a calendrical association, or am I missing something here? From my perhaps limited research of modern accounts of chicomexochitl, I have not heard of the deer association. Any insight, suggestions would be much appreciated. Kelly McDonough University of Minnesota - Twin Cities Department of Spanish & Portuguese Studies 612/624-5529 mcdo0030 at umn.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From a.appleyard at btinternet.com Mon Sep 17 05:45:16 2007 From: a.appleyard at btinternet.com (ANTHONY APPLEYARD) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 06:45:16 +0100 Subject: chicomexochitl and the deer In-Reply-To: <000501c7f8b3$2f2f4550$7a2ef518@MAIN> Message-ID: --- Kelly McDonough wrote: > ... the Spanish translation of the nahuatl “chicomexochitl” > tends to appear as “siete flores (el venado).” Is this simply a > calendrical association, or am I missing something here? ... What is the context of these occurrences of "chicomexochitl" and "siete flores (el venado)."? Does it mean a type of deer which in Nauuatl was called "seven flowers" because of markings on its skin? Citlalyani. _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From lorengar at idecnet.com Tue Sep 18 07:20:42 2007 From: lorengar at idecnet.com (Alfonso Lacadena) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 09:20:42 +0200 Subject: chicomexochitl and the deer In-Reply-To: <200709171700.l8HH0NXq031035@www.famsi.org> Message-ID: I hope this helps you. You might find interesting that there is a Maya supernatural being called Uuc Zip in Colonial Yucatec alphabetic sources, spelled as UUK-si-pu, Uuk Si'p (or Siip) in pre-Columbian hieroglyphic ones. While the exact meaning of zip/sip is still debated among scholars, uuc/uuk clearly means 'seven'. The interesting thing is that this supernatural whose name start with 'seven' is depicted iconographically as a deer (you can find a depiction of this character on Dresden Codex page 13, lowest register, left, the name spelled in the hieroglyphic caption above the image). For modern Maya people of Yucatan and Quintana Roo, the 'sips' are a kind of supernaturals or deities of hunting; they live in the forest and protect deers. Alfonso At 19:00 17/09/2007, you wrote: >Send Nahuatl mailing list submissions to > nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > >To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl >or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > nahuatl-request at lists.famsi.org > >You can reach the person managing the list at > nahuatl-owner at lists.famsi.org > >When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >than "Re: Contents of Nahuatl digest..." > > >Today's Topics: > > 1. chicomexochitl and the deer (Kelly McDonough) > 2. Re: chicomexochitl and the deer (ANTHONY APPLEYARD) > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Message: 1 >Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 17:44:46 -0500 >From: "Kelly McDonough" >Subject: [Nahuat-l] chicomexochitl and the deer >To: >Message-ID: <000501c7f8b3$2f2f4550$7a2ef518 at MAIN> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >Pialli, > > In Hernando Ruiz de Alarcón’s “Tratado de las supersticiones y >costumbres gentílicas que hoy viven entre los indios naturales de esta Nueva >España,” the Spanish translation of the nahuatl “chicomexochitl” tends to >appear as “siete flores (el venado).” Is this simply a calendrical >association, or am I missing something here? From my perhaps limited >research of modern accounts of chicomexochitl, I have not heard of the deer >association. Any insight, suggestions would be much appreciated. > > > > >Kelly McDonough > >University of Minnesota - Twin Cities > >Department of Spanish & Portuguese Studies > >612/624-5529 > >mcdo0030 at umn.edu > > > > > >-------------- next part -------------- >An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >URL: >http://www.famsi.org/pipermail/nahuatl/attachments/20070916/8cec8261/attachment-0001.htm > >------------------------------ > >Message: 2 >Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 06:45:16 +0100 (BST) >From: ANTHONY APPLEYARD >Subject: Re: [Nahuat-l] chicomexochitl and the deer >To: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org >Message-ID: <295519.98293.qm at web86709.mail.ird.yahoo.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > >--- Kelly McDonough wrote: > > ... the Spanish translation of the nahuatl “chicomexochitl” > > tends to appear as “siete flores (el venado).” Is this simply a > > calendrical association, or am I missing something here? ... > >What is the context of these occurrences of "chicomexochitl" and "siete >flores (el venado)."? Does it mean a type of deer which in Nauuatl was >called "seven flowers" because of markings on its skin? > >Citlalyani. > > > >------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Nahuatl mailing list >Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org >http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > > >End of Nahuatl Digest, Vol 62, Issue 1 >************************************** _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From sylvia at famsi.org Thu Sep 20 20:22:25 2007 From: sylvia at famsi.org (sylvia at famsi.org) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 16:22:25 -0400 Subject: Ancient Mesoamerican Poets; translations by John Curl Message-ID: Hello Listeros, In cooperation with Bilingual Review/Press and the Hispanic Research Center, FAMSI is pleased to announce an online selection of ancient Mesoamerican poetry. These literary interpretations of "The Flower Songs of Nezahualcoyotl (Aztec)" and "The Songs of Dzitbalche (Maya)" have been translated by John Curl, a respected poet and author of historical works. Mr. Curl holds a B.A. in comparative literature from New York's City College (CUNY). Click the URL below to enjoy excerpts from John Curl's publication with Bilingual Press, "ANCIENT AMERICAN POETS": http://www.famsi.org/research/curl/index.html Foundation for the Advancement of Mesoamerican Studies, Inc. http://www.famsi.org/index.html _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From schwallr at potsdam.edu Fri Sep 21 14:53:29 2007 From: schwallr at potsdam.edu (John F. Schwaller) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 10:53:29 -0400 Subject: Yecapixtla Message-ID: Yesterday I was talking to a student about various towns and Yecapixtla came up. She inquired what the name meant and I was stumped. I have some guesses, but couldn't say for sure. I looked in my usual reference books and they were silent as well. Anyone care to give it a try? -- ***************************** John F. Schwaller President SUNY - Potsdam 44 Pierrepont Ave. Potsdam, NY 13676 Tel. 315-267-2100 FAX 315-267-2496 _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Fri Sep 21 18:09:41 2007 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 14:09:41 -0400 Subject: Yecapixtla In-Reply-To: <46F3DAE9.2010100@potsdam.edu> Message-ID: Ah, shucks. I'm almost always wrong, but I toss out the first card. The front part Yeca looks like (y)eca- 'wind'. (Of course, it could be a mangled yaca- 'nose'.) The -tla seems to be the suffix that means 'where there is an abundance of'. I don't know what the -pix- is, unless it's an original -pitz- and the -tz- has assimilated to the following -tl-. That's plausible. And pitz- suggests terms such as pitzahuac 'slender, thin', although there could be a term such as *pitzli that would give us pitz in a compound term, but I don't know *pitzli if it exists, and have no dictionary with me at the moment. Michael Quoting "John F. Schwaller" : > > Yesterday I was talking to a student about various towns and > Yecapixtla came up. She inquired what the name meant and I was > stumped. I have some guesses, but couldn't say for sure. I looked > in my usual reference books and they were silent as well. > > Anyone care to give it a try? > > -- > ***************************** > John F. Schwaller > President > SUNY - Potsdam > 44 Pierrepont Ave. > Potsdam, NY 13676 > Tel. 315-267-2100 > FAX 315-267-2496 > > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From brokaw at buffalo.edu Fri Sep 21 19:04:25 2007 From: brokaw at buffalo.edu (Galen Brokaw) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 15:04:25 -0400 Subject: Yecapixtla In-Reply-To: <46F3DAE9.2010100@potsdam.edu> Message-ID: The name of this town appears in colonial documents as both Acapistla and Yacapichtla. In the Mendoza Codex, where it appears as "Yacapichtla," the glyph is of a hill with a nose and an ant-looking insect. The interpretation given by Berdan is "where there are many pointed things," breaking down as "yaca[tl] + pitz[tli] + tla[n]." In her dictionary, Fran does list an attestation of a possessed "yacapitztli." Of course, you always have to be wary of morphological analyses that are based on a literal interpretation of the glyph, but in many cases the linguistic and iconographic morphologies do coincide to one degree or another. Berdan seems to suggests that the insect signals the term "pezotli," which she translates as "insect," and functions as a rebus to produce "pitzahuac," which contributes the "pich" or the "piz" portion of the toponym. Barbara Mundy identifies this element as "azcatl" (ant), which would also be a rebus but for the intial part of the name. Of course, there are issues here that neither of them discuss. For example, why they would use "azcatl" to signal "yacatl," when they were already depicting a nose? It is not uncommon to see certain iconographic redundancies in such toponyms, but even if this were the case, it would seem that the stylized use of "acatl" (reed) that you see in other names would have worked better to signal "yacatl" than the image of an ant (azcatl). This may be why Berdan suggests that the insect is actually meant to signal the "pich" or "piz" part of the name. Regardless of the relationship to the pictographic morphology, the morphological analysis itself, which suggests something like "where there are many pointed things," seems plausible. Galen John F. Schwaller wrote: > > Yesterday I was talking to a student about various towns and Yecapixtla > came up. She inquired what the name meant and I was stumped. I have > some guesses, but couldn't say for sure. I looked in my usual reference > books and they were silent as well. > > Anyone care to give it a try? > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From swood at uoregon.edu Fri Sep 21 16:45:20 2007 From: swood at uoregon.edu (Stephanie Wood) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 09:45:20 -0700 Subject: Fwd: [Nahuat-l] Yecapixtla Message-ID: Hi Fritz, I'm not sure, but there is a sixteenth century document in the AGN from that town, and the town is spelled "Acapixtla," apparently, in this document. I have yet to look carefully at it myself, but there is a couple from the town, a surgeon named Miguel Angel Franco Molina and his wife, Yeimi Avila Arias, who are extremely interested in their town's history and keep writing to me. Perhaps you'd like to contact them to see what they know. They both use her e-mail: yeimi_aviar at hotmail.com The AGN describes the document in question thus: "1564. Códice de Acapixtla, Morelos, sobre Tlatoanis. Este códice, escrito en náhuatl, es uno de los 33 que acompañan el expediente sobre el litigio promovido por Martín Cortés, marqués del Valle, contra el fiscal de la Audiencia, sobre el agravio que decía haber recibido en la visita y tasación que el doctor Quezada había realizando en los pueblos de su jurisicción. El conjunto de estos códices se encuentra registrado por la UNESCO como parte de la Memoria del Mundo." Saludos Stephanie Wood Begin forwarded message: > From: "John F. Schwaller" > Date: September 21, 2007 7:53:29 AM PDT > To: "Nahuat-l \(\(messages\)\)" > Subject: [Nahuat-l] Yecapixtla > > > Yesterday I was talking to a student about various towns and > Yecapixtla came up. She inquired what the name meant and I was > stumped. I have some guesses, but couldn't say for sure. I looked > in my usual reference books and they were silent as well. > > Anyone care to give it a try? > > -- > ***************************** > John F. Schwaller > President > SUNY - Potsdam > 44 Pierrepont Ave. > Potsdam, NY 13676 > Tel. 315-267-2100 > FAX 315-267-2496 > > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > Stephanie Wood, Ph.D., Associate Director and Senior Research Associate, Wired Humanities Project 1201 University of Oregon Eugene, Oregon 97403-1201 U.S.A. Tel. 541-346-5771 swood at uoregon.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From magnuspharao at gmail.com Fri Sep 21 20:56:36 2007 From: magnuspharao at gmail.com (magnus hansen) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 22:56:36 +0200 Subject: Yecapixtla Message-ID: The Relaciones Geograficas of northern Morelos explains that earlier the full name of the city (called acapiztla in the relacion) was Xihuiyacapichtlan which supposedly alluded to a certain kind of chalchihui nose ornament worn by the rulers there. Maunus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From schwallr at potsdam.edu Sat Sep 22 00:46:42 2007 From: schwallr at potsdam.edu (John F. Schwaller) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 20:46:42 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: Re: Fwd: [Nahuat-l] Yecapixtla] Message-ID: ---------------------------- Original Message ---------------------------- Subject: Re: Fwd: [Nahuat-l] Yecapixtla From: "Robert Haskett" Date: Fri, September 21, 2007 2:24 pm To: "John F. Schwaller" ----------------------------------------------------------------------- I have also come across this town's name as Ayacapixtla, Ayecapitztla, Yacapixtlan, and even Acapichtlan. The latter, as well as Acapixtla, suggest the presence of acatl (reed), and in fact there are forms of this word in Molina--acapitzactli, for instance--that have to do with reeds and stands of reeds. There is also in Molina there is a "acapechtli," a kind of raft, but this may be wandering too far from the original. Of course, the "Yaca-" or even "Yeca-" beginnings of the word suggest that "yacatl," "nose," is involved in some way. The wide variation in which one finds this name written is of course a problem, since the "original" is hard to discover now; I fear we'll uncover various different explanations about the place name because of this. In fact, I have a xerox of a transcription of a "Visita, tasacion y cuenta de la Villa de Yecapixtla, Mor., a peticion de don Martin Cortes, Marques del Valle, ano de 1561," in which the editor reveal this very point in note 58, page 265: "Yecapixtla, Yecapistla, Acapixtla, o Yacapitztlan, de todas estas maneras es conocido el pueblo, cuyo jeroglifico es un cerro que presenta una nariz, debajo de la cual se observa una cierta figurilla. El senor Orozco y Berra dice (Hist. Ant. de Mexico, T1, p. 500), a proposito de este jeroglifico, que en la relacion de Acapiztla por el alcalde mayor Juan Gutierrez de Liebana, MS. del ano de 1580, que se hallaba en poder de don Joaquin Garcia Icazbalceta, se encuentra el pasaje siguiente: 'Esta Villa de Acapiztla se llamo asi porque antiguamente se llamaba Xihuitzacapitzalan, porque los senores que la gobernaban traian unos chalchihuites atravesados en las narices, y que eso queria decir, y que como ahora esta la lengua corrupta, se dice y le llaman Ayacapitztla.' Interpretando el jeroglifico de senor Orozco y Berra, dice que la lectura directa puede sacarse de yacatl, nariz; pitztli, la gigurilla, cuesco o hueso de cierto fruto, y la posposicion tlan: Yacapiztlan, los de narices ahusadas o afiladas. El P. Sahagun, citado por el doctor Penafiel, dice que Yacapitzoac era uno de los cinco hermanos del dios de los mercaderes, Yacatecutli, y que con aquel nobre parce tener relacion el nombre del lugar. (Vide Robelo, Nombres Gerograficos Mexicanos del Estado de Morelos, Cuernavaca, 1887, asi como Penafiel, Atlas de los nombres geograficos de Mexico, 1885, lamina XXXVII.) (Se ha puesto aqui esta nota por tratarse de un nombre geografico cuyos cambios dificultan su identificacion.)" I'll let you know if anything else occurs to me. Cheers, Bob _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Sat Sep 22 12:45:17 2007 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 08:45:17 -0400 Subject: Yecapixtla In-Reply-To: Message-ID: It's nice to get down to the bottom of things. Thanks for this note, Maunus. Being named after an ornament popular to one's group is seen elsewhere in native America, such as in the name of the proto-historic middle Ohio Valley tribe mentioned by La Salle: Honniasontkeronon. This Iroquoian term is, parsed, | o-hnya?s-ut-ke-hrono~? | third person neuter singular patientive-"neck"-"possess"-external locative-populative suffix, meaning 'people of the (place) of the) gorget". (? = glottal stop; ~ = nasal vowel a` l'espagnol.) Michael Quoting magnus hansen : > The Relaciones Geograficas of northern Morelos explains that earlier the > full name of the city (called acapiztla in the relacion) was > Xihuiyacapichtlan which supposedly alluded to a certain kind of chalchihui > nose ornament worn by the rulers there. > > Maunus > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From brokaw at buffalo.edu Tue Sep 25 15:03:53 2007 From: brokaw at buffalo.edu (Galen Brokaw) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 11:03:53 -0400 Subject: chicomexochitl and the deer In-Reply-To: <000501c7f8b3$2f2f4550$7a2ef518@MAIN> Message-ID: Hi Kelly, In Chapter 22 of Jacinto de la Serna's mid-seventeenth-century "Tratado de las idolatrías, hechicerías y otras costumbres de las razas aborígenes de México," there is a section about "la picadura del alacran y la fabula de Yapan" in which there appears the following: Dicen, pues, que antes que se hiziessen las conversiones, o transmutaciones de hombres en animales, de animales en hombres, y de vnos animales en otros; el venado era hombre, y llamabase Piltzinteuctli, que quiere decir Señor del hijo, segun el modo de adjectivar en esta lengua, en que el obliquo esta primero, que el recto en la composicion: o llamese hijo Señor, que todo importa poco. Este tal Piltzinteuctli, dicen, que tenia superioridad sobre Yapan, y que á este convirtió en venado, y ahora se llama Chicome Xochitl, que es lo mismo, que Mazatl. Galen Kelly McDonough wrote: > Pialli, > > In //Hernando Ruiz de Alarcón’s//// // “**Tratado de las > supersticiones y costumbres gentílicas que hoy viven entre los indios > naturales de esta Nueva España,” the Spanish translation of the nahuatl > “chicomexochitl” tends to appear as “siete flores (el venado).” ****Is > this simply a calendrical association, or am I missing something here? > From my perhaps limited research of modern accounts of chicomexochitl, > I have not heard of the deer association. Any insight, suggestions > would be much appreciated.** > > > > > Kelly McDonough > > University of Minnesota - Twin Cities > > Department of Spanish & Portuguese Studies > > 612/624-5529 > > mcdo0030 at umn.edu > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From david_becraft at hotmail.com Thu Sep 27 20:32:40 2007 From: david_becraft at hotmail.com (David Becraft) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 13:32:40 -0700 Subject: Nelcuilolli: A Revisionist Approach of Indigenous... (in revision) Message-ID: Listeros, I am attaching a research project that I worked on for the Ronald E. McNair Summer Research Internship of 2008. This draft is still in the process of revision and will be published in the 2008 Ronald E. McNair Scholarly Journal. I want to thank everybody from this list who helped me with terminology and other advice. I am open to futher suggestions, criticism, etc. Please know that the deadline for final submission is coming up (October 1), so if I don't revise it with everybody's input, it was because I ran out of time. This research project is only an introduction to a larger body of study; I am just trying to scratch the surface with a revisionist approach. David F. Becraft Leon (Pancho) Anthropology Southern Oregon University Ashland, Oregon becraftd at students.sou.edu http://www.sou.edu/mcnair/scholars/becraft.html _________________________________________________________________ Share your special parenting moments! http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Becraft McNair Journal 2007.doc Type: application/octet-stream Size: 623104 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From sylvia at famsi.org Fri Sep 28 19:53:56 2007 From: sylvia at famsi.org (sylvia at famsi.org) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 15:53:56 -0400 Subject: Grantee Reports, Informes & Traducciones en Espanol Message-ID: Hello Mesoamericanists, Announcing our newest grantee research reports at FAMSI website: The Canoe in the Cave: A Foundational Shrine at Uxbenka? (2007) by Holley Moyes. http://www.famsi.org/reports/07068/index.html Classic Maya Place Name Database Project, Mesoamerica (2006) by Alexandre Tokovinine. http://www.famsi.org/reports/06054/index.html In Search of the Preceramic: 2006 Season Investigations at Actun Halal, Belize by Jon C. Lohse. http://www.famsi.org/reports/06019/index.html Grantee report translated from Spanish to English: Tarascan Ethnohistory and Archaeology (2006) by Claudia Espejel Carbajal. http://www.famsi.org/reports/06041/index.html Informes de investigacion de concesionarios traducidos del Ingles al Espanol: Investigando la expansion y consolidacion del estado tarasco: Trabajo de campo en Erongaricuaro, Michoacan, Mexico (2005) por David Haskell. http://www.famsi.org/reports/05036es/index.html Informe del Proyecto Arqueologico Uxbenka (PAU) Temporada de Campo 2005 por Keith M. Prufer. http://www.famsi.org/reports/05070es/index.html La Medicina Tradicional Entre los Nahuas: Plantas Medicinales Contemporaneas y Antiguas (2005) por Vania Smith-Oka. http://www.famsi.org/reports/05063es/index.html El Proyecto Arqueologico Tututepec: Excavaciones Residenciales en Yucu Dzaa, Una Capital Mixteca del Postclasico Tardio en la Costa de Oaxaca, Mexico (2005) por Marc N. Levine. http://www.famsi.org/reports/05031es/index.html Re-evaluacion de las Colecciones Arqueologicas Tempranas de Oaxaca: Un Viaje a los Archivos Seler en Berlin (2005) por Adam T. Sellen. http://www.famsi.org/reports/05016es/index.html La Costa Escondida: Una Investigacion Arqueologica del Antiguo Puerto Maya de Vista Alegre, Quintana Roo, Mexico (2004) por Dominique Rissolo. http://www.famsi.org/reports/03043es/index.html Saludos, Sylvia Perrine, Archivist Foundation for the Advancement of Mesoamerican Studies, Inc. http://www.famsi.org/index.html _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From oenthomas at gmail.com Sat Sep 1 00:07:47 2007 From: oenthomas at gmail.com (Owen Thomas) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 17:07:47 -0700 Subject: Morphemes, Graphemes Message-ID: Listeros, I understand part of the Linguistics according to Andrews. My question: since the original memory system for Nahuatl was graphic has anyone attempted to index, or produce a lexicon, based on graphic elements in Nahua codices? Success in deciphering the remains of Mayan carving leads me to wonder if the Verbal and Nominal complexes could be understood from a graphic approach. Sahagun concentrated on a sort of lexical approach by use of phonemes. Has any graphic lexeme survived or is anyone attempting to create such a lexicon? -- We are connected Owen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx Sun Sep 2 20:50:32 2007 From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright) Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 15:50:32 -0500 Subject: Morphemes, Graphemes In-Reply-To: <1dde854d0708311707s3ac8df4fscbcd119fdca62ccc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Owen: You just opened up a big can of worms. People have been arguing about this for over two centuries and they're still at it. I've been looking hard at this question for the last decade or so, and I'll briefly summarize what I've come up with. Part of the problem are our European semantic categories of "writing" and "visual arts". Central Mexican pictorial writing is right on the blurry border, and ancient Mesoamericans didn't really distinguish between the two concepts, as the early colonial vocabularies reveal. The old (and today largely discarded) concept of the "evolution" of writing systems, in which alphabetic writing is supposedly more advanced and "civilized" than "primitive" picture writing, is another problem. Overzealous defenders of the relative sophistication of Mesoamerican civilization have tended to exaggerate the phonographic nature of central Mexican picture writing, in order to claim a higher rung on the evolutionary ladder for the natives of this region. Central Mexican pictorial writing, in general, is essentially semasiographic, which means that most of the painted or carved signs represent ideas, which can be expressed in any of the many languages spoken by people who participated in the plurilinguistic culture of this region. (By "central Mexico" I mean most of Mesoamerica, excluding much of western Mexico, whose participation in this graphic system was minimal, and the Maya region, where a different graphic tradition emerged.) Another problem is that people tend to simplistically equate linguistic groups with "cultures", when in reality language is but one of many overlapping aspects, with blurry borders, that constitute culture. This rich and complex system of visual communication, while essentially semasiographic, also lends itself to homophonic (or quasi-homophonic) word play, like rebus writing, in which a pictorial sign representing one thing is used to express something else, exploiting the fact that both ideas are associated with identical or similar sounds. A classic example is the representation of teeth, in association with some other sign (for example a stylized representation of a mountain), to express the Nahua postposition -tlan ("next to/near/with/under/in/inside", usually preceded by the ligature -ti-) or the locative suffix -tla:n ("with/in/between/next to/place of"). This is possible because in Nahuatl the word for "tooth" or "teeth" is tlantli, whose absolutive suffix -tli is detachable. Similar homophonic word play has been found in pre-Hispanic historical manuscripts from the Mixteca region, and there are possible examples from early colonial Otomi manuscripts (see articles on my web site, the link to which is at the end of this message). Thus the Nahua, the Mixtecs, the Otomi and other linguistic communities that participated in the central Mexican cultural system painted and carved the same signs and understood each other through the same pictorial language, whose roots go back to Olmec times (ca. 1200-600 B.C.) Occasionally they employed the homophonic principle to create glottographs, which can be subdivided into logographs (expressing morphemes or words, as in the example given in the preceding paragraph) and phonographs (expressing syllables or phonemes). The pre-Hispanic texts from central Mexico have fewer glottographs than some of the colonial period texts; this may be due to the influence of European phonographic (i.e. alphabetic) writing in the latter. During the early colonial period some native scribes produced purely semasiographic manusripts, while others developed a style that includes an abundance of logographic and phonographic signs, particularly in the Texcoco region. I'm using Geoffrey Sampson's terminology here because the words usually used by Mesoamericanists can be somewhat vague and ambiguous, having been the source of quite a bit of misunderstanding and fruitless discussion. This said, yes, there have been many attempts at producing pictorial dictionaries based on Nahua codices. Some of the more notable are: Jos? Ignacio Borunda (18th century); Jos? Fernando Ram?rez ?lvarez (mid-19th century), whose card file was used after his death by Manuel Orozco y Berra (late 19th century); Robert H. Barlow and Byron McAfee (study published in 1949), and Joaqu?n Galarza, in several studies (ca. 1980-2000). Galarza's disciples continue with his method; among them are Marc Thouvenot, Luz Mar?a Mohar Betancourt, etc. Several digital editions are forthcoming. See also the studies published in the 1992 edition of the Codex Mendoza, edited by Berdan and Anawalt. Saludos, David Wright http://www.paginasprodigy.com/dcwright/ _____ De: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org [mailto:nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org] En nombre de Owen Thomas Enviado el: Viernes, 31 de Agosto de 2007 07:08 p.m. Para: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org Asunto: [Nahuat-l] Morphemes, Graphemes Listeros, I understand part of the Linguistics according to Andrews. My question: since the original memory system for Nahuatl was graphic has anyone attempted to index, or produce a lexicon, based on graphic elements in Nahua codices? Success in deciphering the remains of Mayan carving leads me to wonder if the Verbal and Nominal complexes could be understood from a graphic approach. Sahagun concentrated on a sort of lexical approach by use of phonemes. Has any graphic lexeme survived or is anyone attempting to create such a lexicon? -- We are connected Owen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From sylvia at famsi.org Thu Sep 6 20:07:16 2007 From: sylvia at famsi.org (sylvia at famsi.org) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 16:07:16 -0400 Subject: Mesoamerican Language Texts Digitization Project Message-ID: Hello Listeros, The Mesoamerican Language Texts Digitization Project developed from a desire to make available to scholars, students, and enthusiasts world-wide, a selection of primary documents pertaining to the ethnohistory and linguistics of the indigenous populations of Mexico and northern Central America. This is a collaborative arrangement between Sandra Noble, Ph.D., Executive Director, FAMSI, and the Libraries of the University of Pennsylvania. The selection of titles to be included was made by John M. Weeks, Ph.D., Librarian of the University of Pennsylvania Museum. FAMSI is pleased to announce 19 newly-posted manuscripts in the Mesoamerican Language Texts Digitization Project: http://www.famsi.org/new.htm To learn more about this joint project of FAMSI and the University of Pennsylvania Libraries, click here: http://www.famsi.org/research/mltdp/index.html To view the catalog of rare manuscripts currently available online, click here: http://www.famsi.org/research/mltdp/catalog.htm Foundation for the Advancement of Mesoamerican Studies, Inc. _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From idiez at mac.com Tue Sep 11 19:44:40 2007 From: idiez at mac.com (John Sullivan, Ph.D.) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 14:44:40 -0500 Subject: Why is a swallow called a swallow? Message-ID: Bien Listeros, That's the question I have: Why is a swallow (the bird) called a swallow? In Classical Nahuatl, "swallow" is "cui:cui:tzcatl". The plural form, given by Fran, is "cui:cui:tzcanih", suggesting a verbal origin for the word. I would say either "cui:cui:tzihui" or "cui:cui:tzoa", because their preterite forms, "cui:cui:tziuh" and "cui:cui:tzoh" would have the option of shortening to "cui:cui:tz" when combining with something else, such as the preterite agentive "-qui/-ca-". The reason is wrote this mail is that there is a verb in Huastecan Nahuatl, "cui:tzoa, nimo" which means "to have something stuck in your throat". There is a related verb "cui:tzihui", which is only used with "tlan(tli)", "tooth". "tlancui:tzihui, ni.", means "the bare or show your teeth". So anyway, why is a swallow called a swallow? John John Sullivan, Ph.D. Profesor de lengua y cultura nahua Universidad Aut?noma de Zacatecas Instituto de Docencia e Investigaci?n Etnol?gica de Zacatecas, A.C. Tacuba 152, int. 47 Centro Hist?rico Zacatecas, Zac. 98000 M?xico Oficina: +52 (492) 925-3415 Fax: +52 (492) 925-3416 Domicilio: +52 (492) 768-6048 Celular: +52 (492) 118-0854 idiez at mac.com www.idiez.org.mx www.macehualli.org ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: John Sullivan, Ph.D..vcf Type: text/directory Size: 33602 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From dfrye at umich.edu Tue Sep 11 20:31:10 2007 From: dfrye at umich.edu (Frye, David) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 16:31:10 -0400 Subject: Why is a swallow called a swallow? In-Reply-To: <7620D5C0-8488-4DCB-A95F-F3FC90DDF518@mac.com> Message-ID: John, The OED shows no connection between the verb/action "swallow" and the bird "swallow" in English. Both words go back to Old English, when the bird was "swealwe", "swalwe," "swalu," etc; the verb was "swelghan", "swilhdh", "swealgh", etc. (with many more forms in the various conjugations, notably the ppl. "forswoleghed"), and the related noun (now meaning "a gulp" but originally meaning "a pit") was "swelh" and variations. Note the different vowels in the first syllable, which (not knowing an iota about Old English) I must assume is relevent to concluding that these clouds of words are different. The OED helpfully notes: "The encroachment of the o of the pa. pple. and the a of the pa. tense upon the pres. stem is evidenced from the 12th and 13th centuries respectively; it was perhaps furthered by association with SWALLOW n.1 [=the bird]." From: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org [mailto:nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org] On Behalf Of John Sullivan, Ph.D. Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2007 3:45 PM To: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org Subject: [Nahuat-l] Why is a swallow called a swallow? Bien Listeros, That's the question I have: Why is a swallow (the bird) called a swallow? In Classical Nahuatl, "swallow" is "cui:cui:tzcatl". The plural form, given by Fran, is "cui:cui:tzcanih", suggesting a verbal origin for the word. I would say either "cui:cui:tzihui" or "cui:cui:tzoa", because their preterite forms, "cui:cui:tziuh" and "cui:cui:tzoh" would have the option of shortening to "cui:cui:tz" when combining with something else, such as the preterite agentive "-qui/-ca-". The reason is wrote this mail is that there is a verb in Huastecan Nahuatl, "cui:tzoa, nimo" which means "to have something stuck in your throat". There is a related verb "cui:tzihui", which is only used with "tlan(tli)", "tooth". "tlancui:tzihui, ni.", means "the bare or show your teeth". So anyway, why is a swallow called a swallow? John John Sullivan, Ph.D. Profesor de lengua y cultura nahua Universidad Aut?noma de Zacatecas Instituto de Docencia e Investigaci?n Etnol?gica de Zacatecas, A.C. Tacuba 152, int. 47 Centro Hist?rico Zacatecas, Zac. 98000 M?xico Oficina: +52 (492) 925-3415 Fax: +52 (492) 925-3416 Domicilio: +52 (492) 768-6048 Celular: +52 (492) 118-0854 idiez at mac.com www.idiez.org.mx www.macehualli.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From a.appleyard at btinternet.com Tue Sep 11 22:13:37 2007 From: a.appleyard at btinternet.com (ANTHONY APPLEYARD) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 23:13:37 +0100 Subject: Why is a swallow called a swallow? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- "Frye, David" wrote: > The OED shows no connection between the verb/action "swallow" and the > bird "swallow" in English. Both words go back to Old English, when > the bird was "swealwe", "swalwe," "swalu," etc; the verb was > "swelghan", "swilhdh", "swealgh", etc. (with many more forms in the > various conjugations, notably the ppl. "forswoleghed"), and the > related noun (now meaning "a gulp" but originally meaning "a pit") > was "swelh" and variations. Note the different vowels in the first > syllable, which (not knowing an iota about Old English) I must assume > is relevent to concluding that these clouds of words are different. > The OED helpfully notes: "The encroachment of the o of the pa. pple. > and the a of the pa. tense upon the pres. stem is evidenced from the > 12th and 13th centuries respectively; it was perhaps furthered by > association with SWALLOW n.1 [=the bird]." The original Common Germanic forms were presumably [swalw-] for the bird, and [swelg-] for the verb; the rest is Anglo-Saxon vowel-breaking and umlauting and the [gh] sound gradually changing to [w], and suchlike. The [gh] spellings above are likely someone's transcription of the Anglo-Saxon way of writing lowercase g, which in Common Germanic was pronounced as a fricative [gh]. About Nahuatl [cui:cui:tzcatl] for "swallow" (the bird): there is also [cui_ca] = "to sing", and swallows sing sometimes. Citlalyani. _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From dfrye at umich.edu Tue Sep 11 23:09:10 2007 From: dfrye at umich.edu (Frye, David) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 19:09:10 -0400 Subject: Why is a swallow called a swallow? Message-ID: The [gh] spellings are my own fault. The OED uses the Old English letter "yogh" (look it up, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yogh, if you want to see what it looks like), which I have no way of representing by email. My understanding is that yogh originally represented a voiced velar fricative. I have only heard the sound in real life when I was in Turkey and heard how "yoghurt" is really supposed to be pronounced; I've also heard it via radio in interviews with people from Gaza (or more properly, Ghazza). Sorry about the extended off-topic etymologies. I guess my larger point is that sometimes seemingly logical similarities between words are just coincidences, though sometimes these coincidences can be reinforced by folk etymologies (or even by puns, I suppose). ________________________________ From: ANTHONY APPLEYARD [mailto:a.appleyard at btinternet.com] Sent: Tue 9/11/2007 6:13 PM To: Frye, David; nahuatl at lists.famsi.org Subject: RE: [Nahuat-l] Why is a swallow called a swallow? The original Common Germanic forms were presumably [swalw-] for the bird, and [swelg-] for the verb; the rest is Anglo-Saxon vowel-breaking and umlauting and the [gh] sound gradually changing to [w], and suchlike. The [gh] spellings above are likely someone's transcription of the Anglo-Saxon way of writing lowercase g, which in Common Germanic was pronounced as a fricative [gh]. About Nahuatl [cui:cui:tzcatl] for "swallow" (the bird): there is also [cui_ca] = "to sing", and swallows sing sometimes. Citlalyani. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From k_salmon at ipinc.net Wed Sep 12 04:02:37 2007 From: k_salmon at ipinc.net (Kier Salmon) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 21:02:37 -0700 Subject: Why is a swallow called a swallow? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Given that they hear spanish most frequently, not English... Golondrina/tragar... sound nothing alike. On Sep 11, 2007, at 4:09 PM, Frye, David wrote: > The [gh] spellings are my own fault. The OED uses the Old English > letter "yogh" (look it up, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yogh, if > you want to see what it looks like), which I have no way of > representing by email. My understanding is that yogh originally > represented a voiced velar fricative. I have only heard the sound > in real life when I was in Turkey and heard how "yoghurt" is really > supposed to be pronounced; I've also heard it via radio in > interviews with people from Gaza (or more properly, Ghazza). > > Sorry about the extended off-topic etymologies. I guess my larger > point is that sometimes seemingly logical similarities between > words are just coincidences, though sometimes these coincidences > can be reinforced by folk etymologies (or even by puns, I suppose). > > > > From: ANTHONY APPLEYARD [mailto:a.appleyard at btinternet.com] > Sent: Tue 9/11/2007 6:13 PM > To: Frye, David; nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > Subject: RE: [Nahuat-l] Why is a swallow called a swallow? > > The original Common Germanic forms were presumably [swalw-] for the > bird, and [swelg-] for the verb; the rest is Anglo-Saxon vowel- > breaking > and umlauting and the [gh] sound gradually changing to [w], and > suchlike. The [gh] spellings above are likely someone's transcription > of the Anglo-Saxon way of writing lowercase g, which in Common > Germanic > was pronounced as a fricative [gh]. > > About Nahuatl [cui:cui:tzcatl] for "swallow" (the bird): there is also > [cui_ca] = "to sing", and swallows sing sometimes. > > Citlalyani. > > > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From sylvia at famsi.org Wed Sep 12 17:49:58 2007 From: sylvia at famsi.org (sylvia at famsi.org) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 13:49:58 -0400 Subject: Publication & Citation / Publicacion y Citacion--FAMSI research materials Message-ID: Hola Listeros, The Foundation often receives requests for publication use of FAMSI images and questions on how to cite sources from the FAMSI website. In response to this type of inquiry, we provide the following guidelines: Publication and Citation: http://www.famsi.org/research/copyright.htm Publicacion y Citacion--materiales de investigacion de FAMSI La Fundacion recibe a menudo solicitudes para usar imagenes de FAMSI en publicaciones y preguntas de como citar fuentes de la pagina web de FAMSI. En respuesta a este tipo de preguntas, les proveemos con las siguientes direcciones: Publicacion y Citacion: http://www.famsi.org/spanish/research/copyright.htm Saludos, Sylvia Perrine, Archivist Foundation for the Advancement of Mesoamerican Studies, Inc. http://www.famsi.org/index.html http://www.famsi.org/spanish/ _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mcdo0030 at umn.edu Sun Sep 16 22:44:46 2007 From: mcdo0030 at umn.edu (Kelly McDonough) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 17:44:46 -0500 Subject: chicomexochitl and the deer Message-ID: Pialli, In Hernando Ruiz de Alarc?n?s ?Tratado de las supersticiones y costumbres gent?licas que hoy viven entre los indios naturales de esta Nueva Espa?a,? the Spanish translation of the nahuatl ?chicomexochitl? tends to appear as ?siete flores (el venado).? Is this simply a calendrical association, or am I missing something here? From my perhaps limited research of modern accounts of chicomexochitl, I have not heard of the deer association. Any insight, suggestions would be much appreciated. Kelly McDonough University of Minnesota - Twin Cities Department of Spanish & Portuguese Studies 612/624-5529 mcdo0030 at umn.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From a.appleyard at btinternet.com Mon Sep 17 05:45:16 2007 From: a.appleyard at btinternet.com (ANTHONY APPLEYARD) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 06:45:16 +0100 Subject: chicomexochitl and the deer In-Reply-To: <000501c7f8b3$2f2f4550$7a2ef518@MAIN> Message-ID: --- Kelly McDonough wrote: > ... the Spanish translation of the nahuatl ?chicomexochitl? > tends to appear as ?siete flores (el venado).? Is this simply a > calendrical association, or am I missing something here? ... What is the context of these occurrences of "chicomexochitl" and "siete flores (el venado)."? Does it mean a type of deer which in Nauuatl was called "seven flowers" because of markings on its skin? Citlalyani. _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From lorengar at idecnet.com Tue Sep 18 07:20:42 2007 From: lorengar at idecnet.com (Alfonso Lacadena) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 09:20:42 +0200 Subject: chicomexochitl and the deer In-Reply-To: <200709171700.l8HH0NXq031035@www.famsi.org> Message-ID: I hope this helps you. You might find interesting that there is a Maya supernatural being called Uuc Zip in Colonial Yucatec alphabetic sources, spelled as UUK-si-pu, Uuk Si'p (or Siip) in pre-Columbian hieroglyphic ones. While the exact meaning of zip/sip is still debated among scholars, uuc/uuk clearly means 'seven'. The interesting thing is that this supernatural whose name start with 'seven' is depicted iconographically as a deer (you can find a depiction of this character on Dresden Codex page 13, lowest register, left, the name spelled in the hieroglyphic caption above the image). For modern Maya people of Yucatan and Quintana Roo, the 'sips' are a kind of supernaturals or deities of hunting; they live in the forest and protect deers. Alfonso At 19:00 17/09/2007, you wrote: >Send Nahuatl mailing list submissions to > nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > >To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl >or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > nahuatl-request at lists.famsi.org > >You can reach the person managing the list at > nahuatl-owner at lists.famsi.org > >When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >than "Re: Contents of Nahuatl digest..." > > >Today's Topics: > > 1. chicomexochitl and the deer (Kelly McDonough) > 2. Re: chicomexochitl and the deer (ANTHONY APPLEYARD) > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Message: 1 >Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 17:44:46 -0500 >From: "Kelly McDonough" >Subject: [Nahuat-l] chicomexochitl and the deer >To: >Message-ID: <000501c7f8b3$2f2f4550$7a2ef518 at MAIN> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >Pialli, > > In Hernando Ruiz de Alarc?n?s ?Tratado de las supersticiones y >costumbres gent?licas que hoy viven entre los indios naturales de esta Nueva >Espa?a,? the Spanish translation of the nahuatl ?chicomexochitl? tends to >appear as ?siete flores (el venado).? Is this simply a calendrical >association, or am I missing something here? From my perhaps limited >research of modern accounts of chicomexochitl, I have not heard of the deer >association. Any insight, suggestions would be much appreciated. > > > > >Kelly McDonough > >University of Minnesota - Twin Cities > >Department of Spanish & Portuguese Studies > >612/624-5529 > >mcdo0030 at umn.edu > > > > > >-------------- next part -------------- >An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >URL: >http://www.famsi.org/pipermail/nahuatl/attachments/20070916/8cec8261/attachment-0001.htm > >------------------------------ > >Message: 2 >Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 06:45:16 +0100 (BST) >From: ANTHONY APPLEYARD >Subject: Re: [Nahuat-l] chicomexochitl and the deer >To: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org >Message-ID: <295519.98293.qm at web86709.mail.ird.yahoo.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > >--- Kelly McDonough wrote: > > ... the Spanish translation of the nahuatl ?chicomexochitl? > > tends to appear as ?siete flores (el venado).? Is this simply a > > calendrical association, or am I missing something here? ... > >What is the context of these occurrences of "chicomexochitl" and "siete >flores (el venado)."? Does it mean a type of deer which in Nauuatl was >called "seven flowers" because of markings on its skin? > >Citlalyani. > > > >------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Nahuatl mailing list >Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org >http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > > >End of Nahuatl Digest, Vol 62, Issue 1 >************************************** _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From sylvia at famsi.org Thu Sep 20 20:22:25 2007 From: sylvia at famsi.org (sylvia at famsi.org) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 16:22:25 -0400 Subject: Ancient Mesoamerican Poets; translations by John Curl Message-ID: Hello Listeros, In cooperation with Bilingual Review/Press and the Hispanic Research Center, FAMSI is pleased to announce an online selection of ancient Mesoamerican poetry. These literary interpretations of "The Flower Songs of Nezahualcoyotl (Aztec)" and "The Songs of Dzitbalche (Maya)" have been translated by John Curl, a respected poet and author of historical works. Mr. Curl holds a B.A. in comparative literature from New York's City College (CUNY). Click the URL below to enjoy excerpts from John Curl's publication with Bilingual Press, "ANCIENT AMERICAN POETS": http://www.famsi.org/research/curl/index.html Foundation for the Advancement of Mesoamerican Studies, Inc. http://www.famsi.org/index.html _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From schwallr at potsdam.edu Fri Sep 21 14:53:29 2007 From: schwallr at potsdam.edu (John F. Schwaller) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 10:53:29 -0400 Subject: Yecapixtla Message-ID: Yesterday I was talking to a student about various towns and Yecapixtla came up. She inquired what the name meant and I was stumped. I have some guesses, but couldn't say for sure. I looked in my usual reference books and they were silent as well. Anyone care to give it a try? -- ***************************** John F. Schwaller President SUNY - Potsdam 44 Pierrepont Ave. Potsdam, NY 13676 Tel. 315-267-2100 FAX 315-267-2496 _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Fri Sep 21 18:09:41 2007 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 14:09:41 -0400 Subject: Yecapixtla In-Reply-To: <46F3DAE9.2010100@potsdam.edu> Message-ID: Ah, shucks. I'm almost always wrong, but I toss out the first card. The front part Yeca looks like (y)eca- 'wind'. (Of course, it could be a mangled yaca- 'nose'.) The -tla seems to be the suffix that means 'where there is an abundance of'. I don't know what the -pix- is, unless it's an original -pitz- and the -tz- has assimilated to the following -tl-. That's plausible. And pitz- suggests terms such as pitzahuac 'slender, thin', although there could be a term such as *pitzli that would give us pitz in a compound term, but I don't know *pitzli if it exists, and have no dictionary with me at the moment. Michael Quoting "John F. Schwaller" : > > Yesterday I was talking to a student about various towns and > Yecapixtla came up. She inquired what the name meant and I was > stumped. I have some guesses, but couldn't say for sure. I looked > in my usual reference books and they were silent as well. > > Anyone care to give it a try? > > -- > ***************************** > John F. Schwaller > President > SUNY - Potsdam > 44 Pierrepont Ave. > Potsdam, NY 13676 > Tel. 315-267-2100 > FAX 315-267-2496 > > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From brokaw at buffalo.edu Fri Sep 21 19:04:25 2007 From: brokaw at buffalo.edu (Galen Brokaw) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 15:04:25 -0400 Subject: Yecapixtla In-Reply-To: <46F3DAE9.2010100@potsdam.edu> Message-ID: The name of this town appears in colonial documents as both Acapistla and Yacapichtla. In the Mendoza Codex, where it appears as "Yacapichtla," the glyph is of a hill with a nose and an ant-looking insect. The interpretation given by Berdan is "where there are many pointed things," breaking down as "yaca[tl] + pitz[tli] + tla[n]." In her dictionary, Fran does list an attestation of a possessed "yacapitztli." Of course, you always have to be wary of morphological analyses that are based on a literal interpretation of the glyph, but in many cases the linguistic and iconographic morphologies do coincide to one degree or another. Berdan seems to suggests that the insect signals the term "pezotli," which she translates as "insect," and functions as a rebus to produce "pitzahuac," which contributes the "pich" or the "piz" portion of the toponym. Barbara Mundy identifies this element as "azcatl" (ant), which would also be a rebus but for the intial part of the name. Of course, there are issues here that neither of them discuss. For example, why they would use "azcatl" to signal "yacatl," when they were already depicting a nose? It is not uncommon to see certain iconographic redundancies in such toponyms, but even if this were the case, it would seem that the stylized use of "acatl" (reed) that you see in other names would have worked better to signal "yacatl" than the image of an ant (azcatl). This may be why Berdan suggests that the insect is actually meant to signal the "pich" or "piz" part of the name. Regardless of the relationship to the pictographic morphology, the morphological analysis itself, which suggests something like "where there are many pointed things," seems plausible. Galen John F. Schwaller wrote: > > Yesterday I was talking to a student about various towns and Yecapixtla > came up. She inquired what the name meant and I was stumped. I have > some guesses, but couldn't say for sure. I looked in my usual reference > books and they were silent as well. > > Anyone care to give it a try? > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From swood at uoregon.edu Fri Sep 21 16:45:20 2007 From: swood at uoregon.edu (Stephanie Wood) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 09:45:20 -0700 Subject: Fwd: [Nahuat-l] Yecapixtla Message-ID: Hi Fritz, I'm not sure, but there is a sixteenth century document in the AGN from that town, and the town is spelled "Acapixtla," apparently, in this document. I have yet to look carefully at it myself, but there is a couple from the town, a surgeon named Miguel Angel Franco Molina and his wife, Yeimi Avila Arias, who are extremely interested in their town's history and keep writing to me. Perhaps you'd like to contact them to see what they know. They both use her e-mail: yeimi_aviar at hotmail.com The AGN describes the document in question thus: "1564. C?dice de Acapixtla, Morelos, sobre Tlatoanis. Este c?dice, escrito en n?huatl, es uno de los 33 que acompa?an el expediente sobre el litigio promovido por Mart?n Cort?s, marqu?s del Valle, contra el fiscal de la Audiencia, sobre el agravio que dec?a haber recibido en la visita y tasaci?n que el doctor Quezada hab?a realizando en los pueblos de su jurisicci?n. El conjunto de estos c?dices se encuentra registrado por la UNESCO como parte de la Memoria del Mundo." Saludos Stephanie Wood Begin forwarded message: > From: "John F. Schwaller" > Date: September 21, 2007 7:53:29 AM PDT > To: "Nahuat-l \(\(messages\)\)" > Subject: [Nahuat-l] Yecapixtla > > > Yesterday I was talking to a student about various towns and > Yecapixtla came up. She inquired what the name meant and I was > stumped. I have some guesses, but couldn't say for sure. I looked > in my usual reference books and they were silent as well. > > Anyone care to give it a try? > > -- > ***************************** > John F. Schwaller > President > SUNY - Potsdam > 44 Pierrepont Ave. > Potsdam, NY 13676 > Tel. 315-267-2100 > FAX 315-267-2496 > > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > Stephanie Wood, Ph.D., Associate Director and Senior Research Associate, Wired Humanities Project 1201 University of Oregon Eugene, Oregon 97403-1201 U.S.A. Tel. 541-346-5771 swood at uoregon.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From magnuspharao at gmail.com Fri Sep 21 20:56:36 2007 From: magnuspharao at gmail.com (magnus hansen) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 22:56:36 +0200 Subject: Yecapixtla Message-ID: The Relaciones Geograficas of northern Morelos explains that earlier the full name of the city (called acapiztla in the relacion) was Xihuiyacapichtlan which supposedly alluded to a certain kind of chalchihui nose ornament worn by the rulers there. Maunus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From schwallr at potsdam.edu Sat Sep 22 00:46:42 2007 From: schwallr at potsdam.edu (John F. Schwaller) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 20:46:42 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: Re: Fwd: [Nahuat-l] Yecapixtla] Message-ID: ---------------------------- Original Message ---------------------------- Subject: Re: Fwd: [Nahuat-l] Yecapixtla From: "Robert Haskett" Date: Fri, September 21, 2007 2:24 pm To: "John F. Schwaller" ----------------------------------------------------------------------- I have also come across this town's name as Ayacapixtla, Ayecapitztla, Yacapixtlan, and even Acapichtlan. The latter, as well as Acapixtla, suggest the presence of acatl (reed), and in fact there are forms of this word in Molina--acapitzactli, for instance--that have to do with reeds and stands of reeds. There is also in Molina there is a "acapechtli," a kind of raft, but this may be wandering too far from the original. Of course, the "Yaca-" or even "Yeca-" beginnings of the word suggest that "yacatl," "nose," is involved in some way. The wide variation in which one finds this name written is of course a problem, since the "original" is hard to discover now; I fear we'll uncover various different explanations about the place name because of this. In fact, I have a xerox of a transcription of a "Visita, tasacion y cuenta de la Villa de Yecapixtla, Mor., a peticion de don Martin Cortes, Marques del Valle, ano de 1561," in which the editor reveal this very point in note 58, page 265: "Yecapixtla, Yecapistla, Acapixtla, o Yacapitztlan, de todas estas maneras es conocido el pueblo, cuyo jeroglifico es un cerro que presenta una nariz, debajo de la cual se observa una cierta figurilla. El senor Orozco y Berra dice (Hist. Ant. de Mexico, T1, p. 500), a proposito de este jeroglifico, que en la relacion de Acapiztla por el alcalde mayor Juan Gutierrez de Liebana, MS. del ano de 1580, que se hallaba en poder de don Joaquin Garcia Icazbalceta, se encuentra el pasaje siguiente: 'Esta Villa de Acapiztla se llamo asi porque antiguamente se llamaba Xihuitzacapitzalan, porque los senores que la gobernaban traian unos chalchihuites atravesados en las narices, y que eso queria decir, y que como ahora esta la lengua corrupta, se dice y le llaman Ayacapitztla.' Interpretando el jeroglifico de senor Orozco y Berra, dice que la lectura directa puede sacarse de yacatl, nariz; pitztli, la gigurilla, cuesco o hueso de cierto fruto, y la posposicion tlan: Yacapiztlan, los de narices ahusadas o afiladas. El P. Sahagun, citado por el doctor Penafiel, dice que Yacapitzoac era uno de los cinco hermanos del dios de los mercaderes, Yacatecutli, y que con aquel nobre parce tener relacion el nombre del lugar. (Vide Robelo, Nombres Gerograficos Mexicanos del Estado de Morelos, Cuernavaca, 1887, asi como Penafiel, Atlas de los nombres geograficos de Mexico, 1885, lamina XXXVII.) (Se ha puesto aqui esta nota por tratarse de un nombre geografico cuyos cambios dificultan su identificacion.)" I'll let you know if anything else occurs to me. Cheers, Bob _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Sat Sep 22 12:45:17 2007 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 08:45:17 -0400 Subject: Yecapixtla In-Reply-To: Message-ID: It's nice to get down to the bottom of things. Thanks for this note, Maunus. Being named after an ornament popular to one's group is seen elsewhere in native America, such as in the name of the proto-historic middle Ohio Valley tribe mentioned by La Salle: Honniasontkeronon. This Iroquoian term is, parsed, | o-hnya?s-ut-ke-hrono~? | third person neuter singular patientive-"neck"-"possess"-external locative-populative suffix, meaning 'people of the (place) of the) gorget". (? = glottal stop; ~ = nasal vowel a` l'espagnol.) Michael Quoting magnus hansen : > The Relaciones Geograficas of northern Morelos explains that earlier the > full name of the city (called acapiztla in the relacion) was > Xihuiyacapichtlan which supposedly alluded to a certain kind of chalchihui > nose ornament worn by the rulers there. > > Maunus > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From brokaw at buffalo.edu Tue Sep 25 15:03:53 2007 From: brokaw at buffalo.edu (Galen Brokaw) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 11:03:53 -0400 Subject: chicomexochitl and the deer In-Reply-To: <000501c7f8b3$2f2f4550$7a2ef518@MAIN> Message-ID: Hi Kelly, In Chapter 22 of Jacinto de la Serna's mid-seventeenth-century "Tratado de las idolatr?as, hechicer?as y otras costumbres de las razas abor?genes de M?xico," there is a section about "la picadura del alacran y la fabula de Yapan" in which there appears the following: Dicen, pues, que antes que se hiziessen las conversiones, o transmutaciones de hombres en animales, de animales en hombres, y de vnos animales en otros; el venado era hombre, y llamabase Piltzinteuctli, que quiere decir Se?or del hijo, segun el modo de adjectivar en esta lengua, en que el obliquo esta primero, que el recto en la composicion: o llamese hijo Se?or, que todo importa poco. Este tal Piltzinteuctli, dicen, que tenia superioridad sobre Yapan, y que ? este convirti? en venado, y ahora se llama Chicome Xochitl, que es lo mismo, que Mazatl. Galen Kelly McDonough wrote: > Pialli, > > In //Hernando Ruiz de Alarc?n?s//// // ?**Tratado de las > supersticiones y costumbres gent?licas que hoy viven entre los indios > naturales de esta Nueva Espa?a,? the Spanish translation of the nahuatl > ?chicomexochitl? tends to appear as ?siete flores (el venado).? ****Is > this simply a calendrical association, or am I missing something here? > From my perhaps limited research of modern accounts of chicomexochitl, > I have not heard of the deer association. Any insight, suggestions > would be much appreciated.** > > > > > Kelly McDonough > > University of Minnesota - Twin Cities > > Department of Spanish & Portuguese Studies > > 612/624-5529 > > mcdo0030 at umn.edu > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From david_becraft at hotmail.com Thu Sep 27 20:32:40 2007 From: david_becraft at hotmail.com (David Becraft) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 13:32:40 -0700 Subject: Nelcuilolli: A Revisionist Approach of Indigenous... (in revision) Message-ID: Listeros, I am attaching a research project that I worked on for the Ronald E. McNair Summer Research Internship of 2008. This draft is still in the process of revision and will be published in the 2008 Ronald E. McNair Scholarly Journal. I want to thank everybody from this list who helped me with terminology and other advice. I am open to futher suggestions, criticism, etc. Please know that the deadline for final submission is coming up (October 1), so if I don't revise it with everybody's input, it was because I ran out of time. This research project is only an introduction to a larger body of study; I am just trying to scratch the surface with a revisionist approach. David F. Becraft Leon (Pancho) Anthropology Southern Oregon University Ashland, Oregon becraftd at students.sou.edu http://www.sou.edu/mcnair/scholars/becraft.html _________________________________________________________________ Share your special parenting moments! http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Becraft McNair Journal 2007.doc Type: application/octet-stream Size: 623104 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From sylvia at famsi.org Fri Sep 28 19:53:56 2007 From: sylvia at famsi.org (sylvia at famsi.org) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 15:53:56 -0400 Subject: Grantee Reports, Informes & Traducciones en Espanol Message-ID: Hello Mesoamericanists, Announcing our newest grantee research reports at FAMSI website: The Canoe in the Cave: A Foundational Shrine at Uxbenka? (2007) by Holley Moyes. http://www.famsi.org/reports/07068/index.html Classic Maya Place Name Database Project, Mesoamerica (2006) by Alexandre Tokovinine. http://www.famsi.org/reports/06054/index.html In Search of the Preceramic: 2006 Season Investigations at Actun Halal, Belize by Jon C. Lohse. http://www.famsi.org/reports/06019/index.html Grantee report translated from Spanish to English: Tarascan Ethnohistory and Archaeology (2006) by Claudia Espejel Carbajal. http://www.famsi.org/reports/06041/index.html Informes de investigacion de concesionarios traducidos del Ingles al Espanol: Investigando la expansion y consolidacion del estado tarasco: Trabajo de campo en Erongaricuaro, Michoacan, Mexico (2005) por David Haskell. http://www.famsi.org/reports/05036es/index.html Informe del Proyecto Arqueologico Uxbenka (PAU) Temporada de Campo 2005 por Keith M. Prufer. http://www.famsi.org/reports/05070es/index.html La Medicina Tradicional Entre los Nahuas: Plantas Medicinales Contemporaneas y Antiguas (2005) por Vania Smith-Oka. http://www.famsi.org/reports/05063es/index.html El Proyecto Arqueologico Tututepec: Excavaciones Residenciales en Yucu Dzaa, Una Capital Mixteca del Postclasico Tardio en la Costa de Oaxaca, Mexico (2005) por Marc N. Levine. http://www.famsi.org/reports/05031es/index.html Re-evaluacion de las Colecciones Arqueologicas Tempranas de Oaxaca: Un Viaje a los Archivos Seler en Berlin (2005) por Adam T. Sellen. http://www.famsi.org/reports/05016es/index.html La Costa Escondida: Una Investigacion Arqueologica del Antiguo Puerto Maya de Vista Alegre, Quintana Roo, Mexico (2004) por Dominique Rissolo. http://www.famsi.org/reports/03043es/index.html Saludos, Sylvia Perrine, Archivist Foundation for the Advancement of Mesoamerican Studies, Inc. http://www.famsi.org/index.html _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl