From schwallr at potsdam.edu  Fri Apr  4 00:59:32 2008
From: schwallr at potsdam.edu (John F. Schwaller)
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 20:59:32 -0400
Subject: [Fwd: [Aztlan] AZTEC TAX RECORDS DECODED]
Message-ID: <THU.3.APR.2008.205932.0400.SCHWALLR@POTSDAM.EDU>

---------------------------- Original Message ----------------------------
Subject: [Aztlan] AZTEC TAX RECORDS DECODED
From:    "michael ruggeri" <michaelruggeri at mac.com>
Date:    Thu, April 3, 2008 4:45 pm
To:      aztlan at lists.famsi.org
--------------------------------------------------------------------------


Listeros,

Scientists have decoded Aztec records showing how the Aztecs measured
tracts of land for taxation. Records from the Aztec city of
Tepetlaoztoc record each household and amount of land owned for tax
purposes. Codices from 1540-44 survive from that city. Five
algorithims were used using hearts, hands, and arrows for measuring
fractions. The records are meticulous and well organized.

National Geographic has the story here;

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/04/080403-aztec-math.html

Here is a tiny URL;

http://tinyurl.com/3c8tsf

Mike Ruggeri



Mike Ruggeri's Aztec and Toltec World

http://tinyurl.com/yqypej












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Click here to post a message Aztlan at lists.famsi.org
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From mgimmel at utk.edu  Fri Apr  4 18:14:17 2008
From: mgimmel at utk.edu (Gimmel, Millie)
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 14:14:17 -0400
Subject: epatl/epazote
Message-ID: <FRI.4.APR.2008.141417.0400.MGIMMEL@UTK.EDU>

Could anyone help me understand the linguistic connection between epatl and epazotl/epazote? I know epatl is skunk and I know what epazote is and, based on the smell of epazote, a connection seems more than likely. 

many thanks, 

Millie
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From k_salmon at ipinc.net  Fri Apr  4 18:53:00 2008
From: k_salmon at ipinc.net (Kier Salmon)
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 11:53:00 -0700
Subject: epatl/epazote
In-Reply-To: <F5D75707-4413-4366-BC89-F2BF788D2AD1@mimectl>
Message-ID: <FRI.4.APR.2008.115300.0700.KSALMON@IPINC.NET>

Just looking in Karttunen I find,

Epa-tl (an animal that stinks [hiede])
Epatzac-tli (lentils)
Epazo-tl (yierba buena de esta Nueva España)  Chenopodium  ambrosiodes

With my very limited linguistic background I think their are two  
seperate root which don't actually have much to do with each other and  
they are Epa and Epazo.
Using Rémi Siméon I find that Epatl is either a skunk or Croton  
vulpinum, a herb that causes vomiting, an expectorant.  Since FK  
states that Epazotl is henopodium  ambrosiodes we have another reason  
to believe that the two words come from different roots.

Personally, I find the smell and use of epazote a nice bitter spice  
that adds to any bean dish... nothing like a stink.

Siméon also spells Epazotl "Epaçotl"  I find the orginazation of this  
dictionary a bit annoying, but if you can track down the word, helpful  
as a cross reference.




On Apr 4, 2008, at 11:14 AM, Gimmel, Millie wrote:
> Could anyone help me understand the linguistic connection between  
> epatl and epazotl/epazote? I know epatl is skunk and I know what  
> epazote is and, based on the smell of epazote, a connection seems  
> more than likely.
>
> many thanks,
>
> Millie
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


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From chuckert at uv.mx  Mon Apr  7 23:15:16 2008
From: chuckert at uv.mx (Huckert Chantal)
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 18:15:16 -0500
Subject: AxtecTax human parts measurements Nahuatl Digest, Vol 83, Issue 1
Message-ID: <MON.7.APR.2008.181516.0500.CHUCKERT@UV.MX>




-----Original Message-----
From: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org on behalf of nahuatl-request at lists.famsi.org
Sent: Fri 4/4/2008 11:00 AM
To: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
Subject: Nahuatl Digest, Vol 83, Issue 1
 
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When replying, please change the Subject line of your email to match
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Today's Topics:

   1. [Fwd: [Aztlan] AZTEC TAX RECORDS DECODED] (John F. Schwaller)


--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**

Message: 1
Date: 3 Apr 2008 20:59:32 -0400
From: "John F. Schwaller" <schwallr at potsdam.edu>
Subject: [Nahuat-l] [Fwd: [Aztlan] AZTEC TAX RECORDS DECODED]
To: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
Message-ID:
	<4264.137.143.153.77.1207270772.squirrel at bearmail.potsdam.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1






---------------------------- Original Message ----------------------------
Subject: [Aztlan] AZTEC TAX RECORDS DECODED
From:    "michael ruggeri" <michaelruggeri at mac.com>
Date:    Thu, April 3, 2008 4:45 pm
To:      aztlan at lists.famsi.org
--------------------------------------------------------------------------


Listeros,

Scientists have decoded Aztec records showing how the Aztecs measured
tracts of land for taxation. Records from the Aztec city of
Tepetlaoztoc record each household and amount of land owned for tax
purposes. Codices from 1540-44 survive from that city. Five
algorithims were used using hearts, hands, and arrows for measuring
fractions. The records are meticulous and well organized.

National Geographic has the story here;

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/04/080403-aztec-math.html

Here is a tiny URL;

http://tinyurl.com/3c8tsf

Mike Ruggeri



Mike Ruggeri's Aztec and Toltec World

http://tinyurl.com/yqypej












_______________________________________________
Aztlan mailing list
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/aztlan
Click here to post a message Aztlan at lists.famsi.org
Click to view Calendar of Events http://research.famsi.org/events/events.php








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**************************************

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From chuckert at uv.mx  Mon Apr  7 23:19:36 2008
From: chuckert at uv.mx (Huckert Chantal)
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 18:19:36 -0500
Subject: John Sullivan address: Nahuatl Digest, Vol 77, Issue 3
Message-ID: <MON.7.APR.2008.181936.0500.CHUCKERT@UV.MX>




-----Original Message-----
From: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org on behalf of nahuatl-request at lists.famsi.org
Sent: Fri 2/22/2008 12:00 PM
To: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
Subject: Nahuatl Digest, Vol 77, Issue 3
 
Send Nahuatl mailing list submissions to
	nahuatl at lists.famsi.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
	http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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When replying, please change the Subject line of your email to match
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text from previous messages.


Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Nahuatl programs in Mexico (Kier Salmon)
   2. Re: Nahuatl programs in Mexico (Kier Salmon)
   3. Re: Nahuatl programs in Mexico (Kier Salmon)
   4. Re: Nahuatl programs in Mexico (Michael Swanton)


--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:54:29 -0800
From: Kier Salmon <k_salmon at ipinc.net>
Subject: Re: [Nahuat-l] Nahuatl programs in Mexico
To: "John Sullivan, Ph.D." <idiez at mac.com>
Cc: "Nahuat-l \(\(messages\)\)" <nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>
Message-ID: <B67E252C-97C2-43BA-BC95-2BEC3A0D738A at ipinc.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes

Estimado... I know I saw a "school" advertising Nahuatl teaching on  
the highway between Tepotzlan and Cuernavaca about three years ago.  I  
have no idea of anything more about it's quality, credentials or  
anything else.  (But it looked like many school in Mexico; shoestring  
budget, no credentials and probably the programs are more on the lines  
of twice a week two hours.)
If I come to Mexico in June, I'll be going from Cuernavaca to  
Tepotztlan and can write down the telephone as I pass.

Kier

On Feb 21, 2008, at 10:22 AM, John Sullivan, Ph.D. wrote:

> Listeros,
> 	I think I asked this question a while ago but got no answers, so  
> I?ll try again. Can anyone comment on the quality of any Nahuatl  
> programs (for non-native speakers) in Mexico, beside the ones run by  
> myself and Jonathan Amith? The specific reason for this request is  
> that a person contacted me requesting this information, because  
> Jonathan?s program and mine are out of his price range; however, it  
> would also be nice to know who else here has this type of program.
> John
>
> John Sullivan, Ph.D.
> Profesor de lengua y cultura nahua
> Universidad Aut?noma de Zacatecas
> Instituto de Docencia e Investigaci?n Etnol?gica de Zacatecas, A.C.
> Tacuba 152, int. 47
> Centro Hist?rico
> Zacatecas, Zac. 98000
> M?xico
> Oficina: +52 (492) 925-3415
> Fax: +52 (492) 925-3416
> Domicilio: +52 (492) 768-6048
> Celular: +52 (492) 118-0854
> idiez at mac.com
> www.idiez.org.mx
> www.macehualli.org
> <John Sullivan, Ph.D..vcf>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl




--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**

Message: 2
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:59:06 -0800
From: Kier Salmon <k_salmon at ipinc.net>
Subject: Re: [Nahuat-l] Nahuatl programs in Mexico
To: Kier Salmon <k_salmon at ipinc.net>
Cc: "Nahuat-l \(\(messages\)\)" <nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>
Message-ID: <DA951C93-A3AF-48E9-959F-C441D69A31D3 at ipinc.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed; delsp=yes

Que barbaridad!

On Feb 21, 2008, at 10:54 AM, Kier Salmon wrote:

> ?b??h????z0"??k?
??%??oz?b?)?5?nj?my?!?x(??^?(! 
> ???z?
zt???s??????z????i?.??ky??j????
> ?????y?j| ?)????i?.?+?????+r???u????l?????b??????b?Z(??e?G?j| 
> ?r(?)?{???!??-?)?n?`z?????u????ljwi???n\
> ?k?
> ????zj+z??
> ?b??(~?"q??y?-??h??????r????
?'(?rn????Y[z
> "???`?z?????????s?V?jw\j|+????	?
> ?^??a?w???Z???????W??_??O?j?t?m?3?h?t??X?j??????- 
> {????^?????a?yj?
v?b????????!?W?????
> -???????(????[k????jv????r??z{h??^??????}??5?nj???? ???? 
> +?????b??)y?
?????????m?"u?az?????o/????}??&????h ???z?^r'?r????? 
> ??a???????+???j??????{Zr?????????)????w??f ???m????&??????)?? 
> +jf?vh?y????h~????z???????z????(?WZ??zx?z?$??0?????^ ?Z??b???z???? 
> +jo?&?g??h?t??X?j???????}?( ??zx.k'.???jv?????+????i?.??? 
> ?f?y??j??j????b??hu??q?????????(r/??Kg 
> ?_??'u?Zq?^q?????6?????o??????????
+-???r??i?? 
> y???????4?O???br??~'"????o??o?????^??????????n???z?:&?? 
> ?????o??o???????	?n??????????_???x?'b{??i???o???v'?????l??
???
????/ 
> ???&?gJ?e????????q??????????????????????????????????????????????e?? 
> ??x%???5?nj???+-???????????i?????jk"????f??f??X??)??????  
> ????????????????????????????????????5?nj?fj)b?	b??Z?? ??b???}???? 
> +?m????
?}????+????Y???b???~??j?
>




--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**

Message: 3
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 11:05:54 -0800
From: Kier Salmon <k_salmon at ipinc.net>
Subject: Re: [Nahuat-l] Nahuatl programs in Mexico
To: Kier Salmon <k_salmon at ipinc.net>
Cc: "Nahuat-l \(\(messages\)\)" <nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>
Message-ID: <0F424BA9-3804-45D0-BBF3-6C5CCE8B1B8F at ipinc.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes

Estimado... I know I saw a "school" advertising Nahuatl teaching on  
the highway between Tepotzlan and Cuernavaca about three years ago.  I  
have no idea of anything more about it's quality, credentials or  
anything else.  (But it looked like many school in Mexico; shoestring  
budget, no credentials and probably the programs are more on the lines  
of twice a week two hours.)
If I come to Mexico in June, I'll be going from Cuernavaca to  
Tepotztlan and can write down the telephone as I pass.

Kier

On Feb 21, 2008, at 10:22 AM, John Sullivan, Ph.D. wrote:

> Listeros,
> 	I think I asked this question a while ago but got no answers, so  
> I?ll try again. Can anyone comment on the quality of any Nahuatl  
> programs (for non-native speakers) in Mexico, beside the ones run by  
> myself and Jonathan Amith? The specific reason for this request is  
> that a person contacted me requesting this information, because  
> Jonathan?s program and mine are out of his price range; however, it  
> would also be nice to know who else here has this type of program.
> John
>
> John Sullivan, Ph.D.
> Profesor de lengua y cultura nahua
> Universidad Aut?noma de Zacatecas
> Instituto de Docencia e Investigaci?n Etnol?gica de Zacatecas, A.C.
> Tacuba 152, int. 47
> Centro Hist?rico
> Zacatecas, Zac. 98000
> M?xico
> Oficina: +52 (492) 925-3415
> Fax: +52 (492) 925-3416
> Domicilio: +52 (492) 768-6048
> Celular: +52 (492) 118-0854
> idiez at mac.com
> www.idiez.org.mx
> www.macehualli.org
> <John Sullivan, Ph.D..vcf>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl




--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**

Message: 4
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 20:45:27 -0800 (PST)
From: Michael Swanton <mwswanton at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Nahuat-l] Nahuatl programs in Mexico
To: Kier Salmon <k_salmon at ipinc.net>
Cc: "Nahuat-l \(\(messages\)\)" <nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>
Message-ID: <886227.74730.qm at web31711.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

To the listserv members,
I would be most grateful if you would please write
your messages in ASCII characters.

--- Kier Salmon <k_salmon at ipinc.net> wrote:

> ?b??h"I?????
??%i??????x
j??[^i?b?
> '???pk&????7????jv?t+??v?i??n????{'??? 
?Z???????????b?
>
??????b???jX????u????l?????b????n?+e??
vX?zf???!??b?????,???????????g???u????ljwi???n\???k?
> ????zj+z????b??(~?"q??y?-??h??|?(??h1?br??&??"Y[z
> "???`?z?????????s?V?jw\j|+????
>
???^??a?w???Z???z?????m4??u?m?0?!?+??+???C??-x???????a?yj?
v?b????????!?W?????
> -????????[k???p?????w??i???'????b?*j|?j??Zk?
> ?????z'??b??)y?
???1?br???'^????+?v??+
???t?'j?Z?
>
???z?^r'?r???????a???????+-??Z????w(?????fz????-?x-?+"??+??b?v?q??x?'j?Z??k?
>
?????)?j?????+)?'
???z0z????(?WZ??zx?z?$??0?????^??Z??b???z????+jbh?rh?t??X?js?
??}?(???zx.k'.???jv???'????'Zt
????u?Zq?^q???b??hu??q?????????(r)??z%?'u?Zq?^q?
6?????h????z{k
x???????j??j?Zs?4?C1??~'"?????v?nw?^Ek???v?nw?^??h??X?????n???8?'??V?????mu?O9?'b{9?q?&?
"v'???&?
0??
????*+??!?+??+???C???j??Y??X??X??????e?+-????*+?m??????????j)fj???b?????nj?Mj??Y??X??X??????e?+-????*+?m??????????j)fj???b?????nj?



      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page. 
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs


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End of Nahuatl Digest, Vol 77, Issue 3
**************************************

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----------------------------------------------------------------------
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From idiez at mac.com  Thu Apr 10 18:30:33 2008
From: idiez at mac.com (John Sullivan, Ph.D.)
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 13:30:33 -0500
Subject: yolic huan yolic
Message-ID: <THU.10.APR.2008.133033.0500.IDIEZ@MAC.COM>

Listeros,
Esperando que reciban este coreo, porque me han sacado de la lista  
cuatro veces en los últimos seis meses.... Here is my question from  
Modern Huastecan Nahuatl:
1. "yolic", "somebody or something slow",  is a conjugatable agentive  
noun which comes from the class 2 verb "yoli", "to be engendered, to  
live, to be revived". I can say, "niyolic", "I am (a) slow (person)",  
or "tiyoliqueh", "We are slow (people)".
2. However, "yolic" can also be used as an adverb, "slowly", in which  
case it is not conjugated. "Nitequiti yolic", "I work slowly", and  
"Titequitih yolic", "We work slowly".
3. So for purposes of grammatical classification (I know you don't  
like that, Joe), could we say that there are two "yolic's": one a noun  
and one a particle (because it is frozen)?
John

John Sullivan, Ph.D.
Profesor de lengua y cultura nahua
Universidad Autónoma de Zacatecas
Instituto de Docencia e Investigación Etnológica de Zacatecas, A.C.
Tacuba 152, int. 47
Centro Histórico
Zacatecas, Zac. 98000
México
Oficina: +52 (492) 925-3415
Fax: +52 (492) 925-3416
Domicilio: +52 (492) 768-6048
Celular: +52 (492) 118-0854
idiez at mac.com
www.idiez.org.mx
www.macehualli.org





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From jonathan.amith at yale.edu  Thu Apr 10 21:03:12 2008
From: jonathan.amith at yale.edu (jonathan.amith at yale.edu)
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 17:03:12 -0400
Subject: yolic huan yolic
In-Reply-To: <6C6432A4-B39D-4200-A950-0C7F7B64CE0F@mac.com>
Message-ID: <THU.10.APR.2008.170312.0400.>

Hi John,

The question came through as an attachment. I would consider that words like
chipa:wak, yo:li:k, we:i, ista:k, etc. are all potentially modifiers and
predicates. I don't think yo:li:k is an agentive. The first two are deverbal,
the third is underived (one of the few such "adjectives") and the last is
denominal. Other terms, such as yema:nki seem to fall into a denominal pattern
(I believe Launey considers them so) although the stem is no longer present as
a noun.

Anyway, modification in Nahuatl can be of a noun (like chipa:wak motlake:n) or
of a verbal predicate (like yo:li:k nehnemi). I'm not sure if I would separate
the two as parts of speech, though maybe. For example, chika:wak is both
"adjectival" (noun modification, chika:wak moma:) and "adverbial" (chika:wak
tsahtsi). Most modifiers can be used predicatively, nichipa:wak, niyo:lik,
niwe:i, niista:k. In some variants, for example, miak is only a quantifier
whereas in norther Veracruz it is an adjective: miak tlasohka:mati. Etc.

Attributives are often incorporated and many speakers have trouble translating
phrases such as 'I am a lazy man' Some simply give nitlatsiw or nitlatski
(depending on variant), or will have two predications, nitlatsiw nitla:katl.
Others will compound nitlatsiwka:tla:katl, etc.

So, I would say, just one entry, yo:li:k that is a modifier/predicate modifier
that can be used predicatively. There is a book by Kees Hengeveld, Non-verbal
predication, that might have something on this. I seem to remember a typology
of his on modification and predication. I can't find it quickly in this book,
so it might be in an article of his on parts of speech in a book by Michael
Fortescue and others called Layered structure and reference in a functional
perspective.

Best,jda


Quoting "John Sullivan, Ph.D." <idiez at mac.com>:

> Listeros,
> Esperando que reciban este coreo, porque me han sacado de la lista  
> cuatro veces en los últimos seis meses.... Here is my question from  
> Modern Huastecan Nahuatl:
> 1. "yolic", "somebody or something slow",  is a conjugatable agentive 
>  noun which comes from the class 2 verb "yoli", "to be engendered, to 
>  live, to be revived". I can say, "niyolic", "I am (a) slow 
> (person)",  or "tiyoliqueh", "We are slow (people)".
> 2. However, "yolic" can also be used as an adverb, "slowly", in which 
>  case it is not conjugated. "Nitequiti yolic", "I work slowly", and  
> "Titequitih yolic", "We work slowly".
> 3. So for purposes of grammatical classification (I know you don't  
> like that, Joe), could we say that there are two "yolic's": one a 
> noun  and one a particle (because it is frozen)?
> John
>
> John Sullivan, Ph.D.
> Profesor de lengua y cultura nahua
> Universidad Autónoma de Zacatecas
> Instituto de Docencia e Investigación Etnológica de Zacatecas, A.C.
> Tacuba 152, int. 47
> Centro Histórico
> Zacatecas, Zac. 98000
> México
> Oficina: +52 (492) 925-3415
> Fax: +52 (492) 925-3416
> Domicilio: +52 (492) 768-6048
> Celular: +52 (492) 118-0854
> idiez at mac.com
> www.idiez.org.mx
> www.macehualli.org
>
>
>
>
>
>



-- 
Jonathan D. Amith
Director: Mexico-North Program on Indigenous Languages
Research Affiliate: Gettysburg College; Yale University; University of Chicago
(O) 717-337-6795
(H) 717-338-1255
Mail to:
Dept. of Sociology and Anthropology
Gettysburg College
Campus Box 412
300 N. Washington Street
Gettysburg, PA  17325

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From schwallr at potsdam.edu  Thu Apr 17 23:22:00 2008
From: schwallr at potsdam.edu (John F. Schwaller)
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 19:22:00 -0400
Subject: Exhibit at Field Museum
Message-ID: <THU.17.APR.2008.192200.0400.SCHWALLR@POTSDAM.EDU>

FIELD MUSEUM OF CHICAGO

The Aztec World
October 31, 2008—April 19, 2009


Explore the grandeur and complexity of one of the world's great  
civilizations. Within the span of 200 years, the Aztecs went from a  
nomadic group to one of the most powerful and influential societies  
ever, leaving behind a legacy that lives on today. Now, find out how  
an empire that began in the middle of a lake went on to become the  
center of the world. With hundreds of spectacular artifacts and works  
of art, assembled together for the first time, you can journey into  
the everyday lives of an ancient culture. Examine the deities,  
temples and sacrificial altars of Aztec religion. Explore the  
training, weapons and celebrations of Aztec warriors. Discover the  
privilege, possessions and treasures of Aztec rulers. And trace the  
remarkable rise and fall of The Aztec World exclusively at The Field  
Museum.

http://www.fieldmuseum.org/exhibits/aztecs_tempexhib.htm

-- 
*****************************
John F. Schwaller
President
SUNY - Potsdam
44 Pierrepont Ave.
Potsdam, NY  13676
Tel. 315-267-2100
FAX 315-267-2496

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From sylvia at famsi.org  Fri Apr 18 18:23:45 2008
From: sylvia at famsi.org (sylvia at famsi.org)
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 14:23:45 -0400
Subject: Research/Informes--Caucel, La Joya, San Miguel Acocotla, El Zotz,
 La Sufricaya, Jalisco, Oaxaca, Chichen Itza, Naranjo,
 Montana de Guerrero, Parangaricutiro
Message-ID: <FRI.18.APR.2008.142345.0400.>

Hello Mesoamericanists,

New grantee final reports published this month at FAMSI website:

Monumental Earthen Architecture at La Joya, Veracruz, Mexico (2007)
by Annick J.E. Daneels.
http://www.famsi.org/reports/07021/index.html

Proyectos Costa Maya and Ciudad Caucel: Archaeological Survey
of Northwestern Yucatan: Ceramic and Lithic Analysis (2007)
by Anthony P. Andrews and Fernando Robles Castellanos.
http://www.famsi.org/reports/07034/index.html

Historical Archaeology and Indigenous Identity at the Ex-Hacienda
San Miguel Acocotla, Atlixco, Puebla, Mexico (2006)
by Elizabeth Terese Newman and Harold Juli.
http://www.famsi.org/reports/06010/index.html

Satellite Survey of El Zotz, Guatemala (2007)
by Zachary Nelson.
http://www.famsi.org/reports/07055/index.html


Grantee reports translated from Spanish to English:

Archaeological Research in the Holmul Region, Peten, Guatemala (2004)
by Francisco Estrada-Belli.
http://www.famsi.org/reports/03103C/index.html

The Agave Landscape and its Archaeological Context in the Tequila Volcano 
Area (2007)
by Verenice Y. Heredia Espinoza.
http://www.famsi.org/reports/07012/index.html

Toponymic Analysis of Three Lienzos from the Mixtec Lowlands, Oaxaca (2001)
by Laura Rodriguez Cano.
http://www.famsi.org/reports/00024/index.html

Chen K'u: The Ceramic of the Sacred Cenote at Chichen Itza, Study of the
Ceramic Fragments of the Explorations Conducted in the 60s (1998)
by Eduardo J. Perez de Heredia Puente.
http://www.famsi.org/reports/97061/index.html


Informes en Espanol:

El Mapa de la Periferia Suroeste de Naranjo, Peten, Guatemala (2006)
por Vilma Fialko.
http://www.famsi.org/reports/06098es/index.html

Fundacion, Asentamiento y Dinamica Politica en la Montana
de Guerrero S. XIV-XVI (2005)
por Flor Yenin Ceron Rojas.
http://www.famsi.org/reports/05052es/index.html

Las Pinturas en los Riscos de Parangaricutiro, Michoacan, Mexico (2002)
por Tricia Gabany-Guerrero.
http://www.famsi.org/reports/01088es/index.html

Saludos a todos,

Sylvia Perrine, Archivist
Foundation for the Advancement of Mesoamerican Studies, Inc.
http://www.famsi.org/index.html
http://www.famsi.org/spanish/

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From schwallr at potsdam.edu  Sat Apr 19 01:42:20 2008
From: schwallr at potsdam.edu (John F. Schwaller)
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 21:42:20 -0400
Subject: Power and Politics in the Late Aztec Period, Wash. DC
Message-ID: <FRI.18.APR.2008.214220.0400.SCHWALLR@POTSDAM.EDU>

Power and Politics in the Late Aztec Period

A one-day symposium

Saturday, September 13, 2008

Please join the Pre-Columbian Society of Washington, D.C. as we
explore manifestations of Aztec power and politics in one of the New
World’s most powerful and complex empires.

Titles (and Abstracts Received)

1.Trade, Tribute and Markets in the Aztec Imperial World

Speaker—Dr. Frances Berdan, University of California/San Bernardino

“The Aztec empire experienced a brief but flamboyant history, lasting
only from 1428 until its conquest by the Spaniards in 1521. During
that brief time, life under Aztec rule saw haughty professional
merchants traveling long distances with their luxurious wares,
conquered city-states paying large quantities of tribute to their
conquerors, and bustling marketplaces offering virtually every
commodity available within (and beyond) the imperial boundaries. In
this setting, many luxury goods advertised political power and social
status during occasions of public display and by serving as
ceremonial offerings. This presentation explores the political and
social world of luxuries such as decorated cotton clothing, previous
stone and feather ornaments, feathered warrior costumes and cacao. It
highlights the political and social connection of these preciosities
as they moved from hand to hand in the intricate Aztec economy:
professional merchants were agents of the state as well as private
entrepreneurs, and their occasional associations sparked wars;
tribute payments symbolized subservience; and busy marketplaces were
signs of economic prosperity and political importance.”

2.Aztec Imperial Strategies from the Bottom Up: A View from the
Pictorial Histories

Speaker—Dr. Lori Diel, Texas Christian University

Abstract pending.

3.Aztec Militarism

Speaker—Dr. John Pohl, Fowler Museum of UCLA

“According to one popular image, the Aztec army was a ruthless and
efficient war machine that established an empire by convincingly
overwhelming its neighbors, sacrificing thousands to bloodthirsty
gods along the way. The reality shows that Aztec warfare was much
richer and far more complex than previously understood. The
presentation will reveal a close relationship between economic and
social matters in Aztec society, as well as the religious, by
comparing and contrasting the empire’s motivations with those of
their principal opponents, a confederacy dominated by the Eastern
Nahua, Mixtec and Zapotec peoples of southern Mexico.”

4.Architecture, Power, and Kingship at Aztec Cities outside Tenochtitlan

Speaker—Dr. Michael Smith, Arizona State University

“Most Aztec cities were founded in the twelfth century in the wake of
the Aztlan migrations. Although they were relatively small cities
compared to Tenochtitlan, their role as capitals of city-states gave
them political prominence in the central Mexican social landscape.
Kings designed and constructed the public buildings in these cities
in order to project messages about power, control, legitimacy, and
sacredness. These messages originated in both the individual
buildings (temples, ball courts, platforms, and palaces), and in
their planned layout within urban epicenters. I explore the various
levels of meaning of Aztec architecture, including sacred symbolism,
political ideology, references to the Toltec past and visual impact
on people in the urban center. The architectural and political
patterns of city-state capitals were later adopted by the Mexica
kings, who transformed Tenochtitlan into the thriving imperial
capital seen by the invading Spaniards.”


5.The Great Mountain Shrines of Tetzcotzingo and Mt. Tlaloc

Speaker—Dr. Richard Townsend, Art Institute of Chicago

“Individual leadership and initiative has ever been a determining
force in collective human endeavors. The formation of the Aztec
empire is rich in examples of dynamic rulers who creatively developed
unifying projects during the 15th century. This illustrated lecture
will review the design and functions of major ritual centers upon Mt.
Tetzcotzingo and Mt. Tlaloc, symbolically claiming the land and the
memory of those who were there long before, while uniting fractious
domains in shared ritual to ensure annual rains, the fertility of the
soil, the abundance of crops, and the prosperity of the community
from year to year.”

6.Monuments, Omens, and Historical Thought: the Transition from
Ahuitzotl to Motecuhzoma II.

Speaker—Dr. Emily Umberger, Arizona State University

Abstract pending.





-- 
John F. Schwaller
President,
SUNY Potsdam
44 Pierrepont Ave.
Potsdam, NY  13676
schwallr at potsdam.edu


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From david_becraft at hotmail.com  Fri Apr 25 12:23:00 2008
From: david_becraft at hotmail.com (David Becraft)
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 05:23:00 -0700
Subject: Tlacuilolli: Writing Systems of Anahuac
Message-ID: <FRI.25.APR.2008.052300.0700.DAVIDBECRAFT@HOTMAIL.COM>

To the MODERATOR (S),

Hi,  I would appreciate your help in removing the following WORD DOCUMENT from your listserv.  It is called, "Tlacuilolli: Writing Systems of Anahuac".  I am waiting to upload it in PDF format and am also waiting for it to publish.

I noticed it on the search engine Google and it comes up as follows:


[DOC]
Tlacuilolli: Writing Systems of Anahuac
File Format: Microsoft Word - View as HTML
Scholar: David Francisco Becraft León. Ronald E. McNair Mentor: Dr. Jean Maxwell ... David Francisco Becraft León is currently a senior at Southern Oregon ...
listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/wa?A3



I would love your attention on this matter ASAP, PLEASE.

DAVID
_________________________________________________________________
Back to work after baby–how do you know when you’re ready?
http://lifestyle.msn.com/familyandparenting/articleNW.aspx?cp-documentidW97498&ocid_______________________________________________
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From mijobas at yahoo.com  Fri Apr 25 13:37:25 2008
From: mijobas at yahoo.com (Michael Stevenson)
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 06:37:25 -0700
Subject: dark/light skin color differences in pre- and post-conquest Mexico
Message-ID: <FRI.25.APR.2008.063725.0700.MIJOBAS@YAHOO.COM>

Dear Listeros,

Does anyone know of or have any references to
differences of skin colors within Mexico, both in the
pre-Conquest and immediate post-Conquest eras? 

I am working on a paper and it involves an image from
the Florentine Codex (I've attached it to this email
but am not sure whether it will make it through). It
is on 245 verso of Volume 2 of the Florentine Codex
and depicts people stoking the chest cavity of a
sacrificial victim with wood, in preparation for a
fire. The victim is light-skinned while the others are
dark skinned.

Are there any references to darker skinned people that
anyone knows of in any pre-Conquest context? This
illustration, of course, pre-dates casta paintings but
does anyone have any info or references on dark vs
light skin in the immediate post-Conquest period?

Please feel free to email me directly and thanks in
advance,

Best,

Michael Stevenson


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and 
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
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From k_salmon at ipinc.net  Fri Apr 25 15:09:43 2008
From: k_salmon at ipinc.net (Kier Salmon)
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 08:09:43 -0700
Subject: dark/light skin color differences in pre- and post-conquest
 Mexico
In-Reply-To: <975422.28125.qm@web51709.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.25.APR.2008.080943.0700.KSALMON@IPINC.NET>

Bernal Diaz mentions skin color briefly.  He states that after the  
fall of Tenochtitlan when the survivors were being processed into  
slavery the conquistadores grabbed all the comely and "light skinned"  
women they could and that this was a disgraceful way to act for them.   
I also seem to recall a reference to women's makeup somewhere, that  
they put ointments of yellow on their skin in an effort to lighten the  
color.  ALl this suggests that they did have a color/skin tone  
perception linked with status.
But the lighter skinned sacrificial victim may have been smeared with  
ash.  THat I do remember is that they painted the skin of their  
sacrifices.
THe purpose, I haven't yet found a statement as to why.
Having grown up in Mexico, I can state there are color variations in  
"fully" indian villages, but I've never known if those are racial or a  
product of mestizaje.

On Apr 25, 2008, at 6:37 AM, Michael Stevenson wrote:

> Dear Listeros,
>
> Does anyone know of or have any references to
> differences of skin colors within Mexico, both in the
> pre-Conquest and immediate post-Conquest eras?
>
> I am working on a paper and it involves an image from
> the Florentine Codex (I've attached it to this email
> but am not sure whether it will make it through). It
> is on 245 verso of Volume 2 of the Florentine Codex
> and depicts people stoking the chest cavity of a
> sacrificial victim with wood, in preparation for a
> fire. The victim is light-skinned while the others are
> dark skinned.
>
> Are there any references to darker skinned people that
> anyone knows of in any pre-Conquest context? This
> illustration, of course, pre-dates casta paintings but
> does anyone have any info or references on dark vs
> light skin in the immediate post-Conquest period?
>
> Please feel free to email me directly and thanks in
> advance,
>
> Best,
>
> Michael Stevenson
>
>
>       
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Be a better friend, newshound, and
> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ 
> <fc245vx.jpg>_______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl

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From ced22 at leicester.ac.uk  Fri Apr 25 17:09:27 2008
From: ced22 at leicester.ac.uk (Dodds, Dr C.E.)
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 18:09:27 +0100
Subject: dark/light skin color differences in pre- and post-conquest
 Mexico
In-Reply-To: <975422.28125.qm@web51709.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.25.APR.2008.180927.0100.CED22@LEICESTER.AC.UK>

Dear Michael,

It may not be relevant to this image, but don't forget that priests were painted black. I'm not positive of the context of this image as I'm away from my office and can't look it up, so can't be sure if this is relevant here, but it is extremely reminiscent of depictions of priests. And, appearing as it does in a ritual context, I would not dismiss this as a possible reference.

In addition, following up Kier's comment, about smearing ash on the skins of victims, victims were also sometimes painted white, which might be relevant here.

Yours,
Caroline
-------------
Dr. Caroline Dodds
Lecturer in Early Modern History
School of Historical Studies
University of Leicester
University Road
Leicester
LE1 7RH

tel: 0116 223 1229
mobile: 07740675610
email: ced22 at le.ac.uk
http://www.le.ac.uk/history/people/ced22.html
________________________________________
From: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org [nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org] On Behalf Of Michael Stevenson [mijobas at yahoo.com]
Sent: 25 April 2008 14:37
To: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
Subject: [Nahuat-l] dark/light skin color differences in pre- and       post-conquest Mexico

Dear Listeros,

Does anyone know of or have any references to
differences of skin colors within Mexico, both in the
pre-Conquest and immediate post-Conquest eras?

I am working on a paper and it involves an image from
the Florentine Codex (I've attached it to this email
but am not sure whether it will make it through). It
is on 245 verso of Volume 2 of the Florentine Codex
and depicts people stoking the chest cavity of a
sacrificial victim with wood, in preparation for a
fire. The victim is light-skinned while the others are
dark skinned.

Are there any references to darker skinned people that
anyone knows of in any pre-Conquest context? This
illustration, of course, pre-dates casta paintings but
does anyone have any info or references on dark vs
light skin in the immediate post-Conquest period?

Please feel free to email me directly and thanks in
advance,

Best,

Michael Stevenson


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

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From ptcamn at gmail.com  Fri Apr 25 17:10:36 2008
From: ptcamn at gmail.com (ptcamn)
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 03:10:36 +1000
Subject: dark/light skin color differences in pre- and post-conquest
 Mexico
Message-ID: <SAT.26.APR.2008.031036.1000.PTCAMN@GMAIL.COM>

Priests are often depicted in the codices with darkened skin,
presumably due to some kind of paint. Compare the attached example
from the Codex Magliabechiano.

Probably not relevant to the Florentine Codex image, but since you
asked, darkness in some contexts was used to mark outsiders. One
Mixtec name for the Nahuas was "tay saminuu", meaning "people with
burnt faces", and they were so depicted in Mixtec codices. On the
other hand, it is the Mixtecs who are depicted with dark skin as well
as dark clothing in the Mapa de Cuauhtinchan No. 2. Finally, in
present-day Isthmus Nahuatl, the word tilti' (corresponding to the
more familiar tliltic "black") means "stranger/foreigner".

(Sources: Kevin Terraciano's Mixtecs of Colonial Oaxaca; Cave, City
and Eagle's Nest: An Interpretative Journey Through the Mapa de
Cuauhtinchan No. 2; Diccionario Nahuatl de los municipios de Mecayapan
y Tatahuicapan de Juarez, Veracruz.)
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From micc2 at cox.net  Fri Apr 25 17:52:27 2008
From: micc2 at cox.net (micc2 at cox.net)
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 13:52:27 -0400
Subject: dark/light skin color differences in pre- and post-conquest
 Mexico
In-Reply-To: <19c68cb40804251010y22737b70p74be9f25e7978c2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.25.APR.2008.135227.0400.>

I read somewhere in my past life, that the priest were black because they would not clean off the sacred blood of the victims, and as the blood dried and caked, it turned black, and it also matted their hair into fantastic shapes, like snakes.


---- ptcamn <ptcamn at gmail.com> wrote: 
> Priests are often depicted in the codices with darkened skin,
> presumably due to some kind of paint. Compare the attached example
> from the Codex Magliabechiano.
> 
> Probably not relevant to the Florentine Codex image, but since you
> asked, darkness in some contexts was used to mark outsiders. One
> Mixtec name for the Nahuas was "tay saminuu", meaning "people with
> burnt faces", and they were so depicted in Mixtec codices. On the
> other hand, it is the Mixtecs who are depicted with dark skin as well
> as dark clothing in the Mapa de Cuauhtinchan No. 2. Finally, in
> present-day Isthmus Nahuatl, the word tilti' (corresponding to the
> more familiar tliltic "black") means "stranger/foreigner".
> 
> (Sources: Kevin Terraciano's Mixtecs of Colonial Oaxaca; Cave, City
> and Eagle's Nest: An Interpretative Journey Through the Mapa de
> Cuauhtinchan No. 2; Diccionario Nahuatl de los municipios de Mecayapan
> y Tatahuicapan de Juarez, Veracruz.)

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From k_salmon at ipinc.net  Fri Apr 25 18:05:40 2008
From: k_salmon at ipinc.net (Kier Salmon)
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 11:05:40 -0700
Subject: dark/light skin color differences in pre- and post-conquest
 Mexico
In-Reply-To: <20080425135227.9C8E7.37895.imail@fed1rmwml36>
Message-ID: <FRI.25.APR.2008.110540.0700.KSALMON@IPINC.NET>

Now, that's not what I remember.  In Bernal Diaz it does talk of the  
"hedor" of the temples, but I seem to recall the color black was a  
thick oil mixed with charcoal... and I am working without texts today,  
so this answer is off the cuff.  It *should* be in the Florentine.
IIRC (If I Recall Correctly) "Heart of Green Stone" mentioned the  
blood in the hair.  Admittedly Salvador de Madriaga did a lot of  
research, but that was over 40 year ago.


On Apr 25, 2008, at 10:52 AM, <micc2 at cox.net> <micc2 at cox.net> wrote:

> I read somewhere in my past life, that the priest were black because  
> they would not clean off the sacred blood of the victims, and as the  
> blood dried and caked, it turned black, and it also matted their  
> hair into fantastic shapes, like snakes.
>
>
> ---- ptcamn <ptcamn at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Priests are often depicted in the codices with darkened skin,
>> presumably due to some kind of paint. Compare the attached example
>> from the Codex Magliabechiano.
>>
>> Probably not relevant to the Florentine Codex image, but since you
>> asked, darkness in some contexts was used to mark outsiders. One
>> Mixtec name for the Nahuas was "tay saminuu", meaning "people with
>> burnt faces", and they were so depicted in Mixtec codices. On the
>> other hand, it is the Mixtecs who are depicted with dark skin as well
>> as dark clothing in the Mapa de Cuauhtinchan No. 2. Finally, in
>> present-day Isthmus Nahuatl, the word tilti' (corresponding to the
>> more familiar tliltic "black") means "stranger/foreigner".
>>
>> (Sources: Kevin Terraciano's Mixtecs of Colonial Oaxaca; Cave, City
>> and Eagle's Nest: An Interpretative Journey Through the Mapa de
>> Cuauhtinchan No. 2; Diccionario Nahuatl de los municipios de  
>> Mecayapan
>> y Tatahuicapan de Juarez, Veracruz.)
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl

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From Ian.Mursell at btinternet.com  Fri Apr 25 19:30:46 2008
From: Ian.Mursell at btinternet.com (Ian Mursell)
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 20:30:46 +0100
Subject: dark/light skin color differences in pre- and post-conquest
 Mexico
Message-ID: <FRI.25.APR.2008.203046.0100.IAN.MURSELL@BTINTERNET.COM>

This image from the Florentine Codex comes from Book 7, Chapter 11.
Chapters 9-12 are all about the New Fire Ceremony in which a xiuhmolpilli
or Œbundle of [52] reeds¹/years was burned.  This is the only image in these
chapters depicting human sacrifice and one has to assume it relates to this
all-important Aztec-century-welcoming ritual. The only part of the text to
mention the sacrifice (in Chapter 9) includes the following clue: 'And when
they drew the new fire, they drew it there at Uixachtlan, at midnight, when
the night divided in half.  They drew it upon the breast of a captive, and
it was a well-born one on whose breast [the priest] bored the fire drill.
And when a little [fire] fell, when it took flame, then speedily [the
priest] slashed open the breast of the captive, seized his heart, and
quickly cast it there into the fire.  Thus he fed, he served it to the fire.
And the body of [the captive] all came to an end in the flames.  And those
who drew fire were exclusively the  priests, the fire priests, the
devout...'  (from the Anderson & Dibble translation).

I include below a scan of the image which has - I think - a slightly more
accurate colour rendition: less green and more (ash!) grey/black in the skin
tones (of the priests, that is...)


It seems fair to conclude that the artist is here trying to make the victim
stand out symbolically from the surrounding priests, who, as everyone
agrees, would in real life have been painted/daubed black.  Would be good to
find time to research more in-depth into the New Fire ceremony itself from
other sources... 

Good wishes,

Ian

Ian Mursell

MirandaNet Fellow, Institute of Education, London University

Director, 'Mexicolore'
28 Warriner Gardens
London SW11 4EB, U.K.
Tel: +44 (0) 20 7622 9577
Fax: +44 (0) 20 7498 0173
www.aztecs.org
Ian.Mursell at btinternet.com
info at mexicolore.co.uk

1980-2005: 25 years of bringing Mexico and the Aztecs to life in schools and
museums throughout England.  Team visits, online teaching resources and
services, live interactive videoconferencing sessions, and much more - all
from Mexicolore, the 'highly successful teaching team' (British Museum
Education Service)



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From chuckert at uv.mx  Fri Apr 25 23:30:20 2008
From: chuckert at uv.mx (Huckert Chantal)
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 18:30:20 -0500
Subject: FAmsi scholarship 2007, Daneels, La joya,
 Mno earthern architecture
Message-ID: <FRI.25.APR.2008.183020.0500.CHUCKERT@UV.MX>




-----Original Message-----
From: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org on behalf of nahuatl-request at lists.famsi.org
Sent: Sat 4/19/2008 12:00 PM
To: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
Subject: Nahuatl Digest, Vol 85, Issue 2
 
Send Nahuatl mailing list submissions to
	nahuatl at lists.famsi.org

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When replying, please change the Subject line of your email to match
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Today's Topics:

   1. Research/Informes--Caucel, La Joya, San Miguel Acocotla,	El
      Zotz, La Sufricaya, Jalisco, Oaxaca, Chichen Itza, Naranjo,
      Montana de Guerrero, Parangaricutiro (sylvia at famsi.org)
   2. Power and Politics in the Late Aztec Period, Wash. DC
      (John F. Schwaller)


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Message: 1
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 14:23:45 -0400
From: <sylvia at famsi.org>
Subject: [Nahuat-l] Research/Informes--Caucel, La Joya, San Miguel
	Acocotla,	El Zotz, La Sufricaya, Jalisco, Oaxaca, Chichen Itza,
	Naranjo,	Montana de Guerrero, Parangaricutiro
To: <nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>
Message-ID: <001e01c8a181$576b44c0$2801a8c0 at sylvia>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
	reply-type=original

Hello Mesoamericanists,

New grantee final reports published this month at FAMSI website:

Monumental Earthen Architecture at La Joya, Veracruz, Mexico (2007)
by Annick J.E. Daneels.
http://www.famsi.org/reports/07021/index.html

Proyectos Costa Maya and Ciudad Caucel: Archaeological Survey
of Northwestern Yucatan: Ceramic and Lithic Analysis (2007)
by Anthony P. Andrews and Fernando Robles Castellanos.
http://www.famsi.org/reports/07034/index.html

Historical Archaeology and Indigenous Identity at the Ex-Hacienda
San Miguel Acocotla, Atlixco, Puebla, Mexico (2006)
by Elizabeth Terese Newman and Harold Juli.
http://www.famsi.org/reports/06010/index.html

Satellite Survey of El Zotz, Guatemala (2007)
by Zachary Nelson.
http://www.famsi.org/reports/07055/index.html


Grantee reports translated from Spanish to English:

Archaeological Research in the Holmul Region, Peten, Guatemala (2004)
by Francisco Estrada-Belli.
http://www.famsi.org/reports/03103C/index.html

The Agave Landscape and its Archaeological Context in the Tequila Volcano 
Area (2007)
by Verenice Y. Heredia Espinoza.
http://www.famsi.org/reports/07012/index.html

Toponymic Analysis of Three Lienzos from the Mixtec Lowlands, Oaxaca (2001)
by Laura Rodriguez Cano.
http://www.famsi.org/reports/00024/index.html

Chen K'u: The Ceramic of the Sacred Cenote at Chichen Itza, Study of the
Ceramic Fragments of the Explorations Conducted in the 60s (1998)
by Eduardo J. Perez de Heredia Puente.
http://www.famsi.org/reports/97061/index.html


Informes en Espanol:

El Mapa de la Periferia Suroeste de Naranjo, Peten, Guatemala (2006)
por Vilma Fialko.
http://www.famsi.org/reports/06098es/index.html

Fundacion, Asentamiento y Dinamica Politica en la Montana
de Guerrero S. XIV-XVI (2005)
por Flor Yenin Ceron Rojas.
http://www.famsi.org/reports/05052es/index.html

Las Pinturas en los Riscos de Parangaricutiro, Michoacan, Mexico (2002)
por Tricia Gabany-Guerrero.
http://www.famsi.org/reports/01088es/index.html

Saludos a todos,

Sylvia Perrine, Archivist
Foundation for the Advancement of Mesoamerican Studies, Inc.
http://www.famsi.org/index.html
http://www.famsi.org/spanish/



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Message: 2
Date: 18 Apr 2008 21:42:20 -0400
From: "John F. Schwaller" <schwallr at potsdam.edu>
Subject: [Nahuat-l] Power and Politics in the Late Aztec Period, Wash.
	DC
To: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
Message-ID:
	<1274.75.221.37.244.1208569340.squirrel at bearmail.potsdam.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1


Power and Politics in the Late Aztec Period

A one-day symposium

Saturday, September 13, 2008

Please join the Pre-Columbian Society of Washington, D.C. as we
explore manifestations of Aztec power and politics in one of the New
World?s most powerful and complex empires.

Titles (and Abstracts Received)

1.Trade, Tribute and Markets in the Aztec Imperial World

Speaker?Dr. Frances Berdan, University of California/San Bernardino

?The Aztec empire experienced a brief but flamboyant history, lasting
only from 1428 until its conquest by the Spaniards in 1521. During
that brief time, life under Aztec rule saw haughty professional
merchants traveling long distances with their luxurious wares,
conquered city-states paying large quantities of tribute to their
conquerors, and bustling marketplaces offering virtually every
commodity available within (and beyond) the imperial boundaries. In
this setting, many luxury goods advertised political power and social
status during occasions of public display and by serving as
ceremonial offerings. This presentation explores the political and
social world of luxuries such as decorated cotton clothing, previous
stone and feather ornaments, feathered warrior costumes and cacao. It
highlights the political and social connection of these preciosities
as they moved from hand to hand in the intricate Aztec economy:
professional merchants were agents of the state as well as private
entrepreneurs, and their occasional associations sparked wars;
tribute payments symbolized subservience; and busy marketplaces were
signs of economic prosperity and political importance.?

2.Aztec Imperial Strategies from the Bottom Up: A View from the
Pictorial Histories

Speaker?Dr. Lori Diel, Texas Christian University

Abstract pending.

3.Aztec Militarism

Speaker?Dr. John Pohl, Fowler Museum of UCLA

?According to one popular image, the Aztec army was a ruthless and
efficient war machine that established an empire by convincingly
overwhelming its neighbors, sacrificing thousands to bloodthirsty
gods along the way. The reality shows that Aztec warfare was much
richer and far more complex than previously understood. The
presentation will reveal a close relationship between economic and
social matters in Aztec society, as well as the religious, by
comparing and contrasting the empire?s motivations with those of
their principal opponents, a confederacy dominated by the Eastern
Nahua, Mixtec and Zapotec peoples of southern Mexico.?

4.Architecture, Power, and Kingship at Aztec Cities outside Tenochtitlan

Speaker?Dr. Michael Smith, Arizona State University

?Most Aztec cities were founded in the twelfth century in the wake of
the Aztlan migrations. Although they were relatively small cities
compared to Tenochtitlan, their role as capitals of city-states gave
them political prominence in the central Mexican social landscape.
Kings designed and constructed the public buildings in these cities
in order to project messages about power, control, legitimacy, and
sacredness. These messages originated in both the individual
buildings (temples, ball courts, platforms, and palaces), and in
their planned layout within urban epicenters. I explore the various
levels of meaning of Aztec architecture, including sacred symbolism,
political ideology, references to the Toltec past and visual impact
on people in the urban center. The architectural and political
patterns of city-state capitals were later adopted by the Mexica
kings, who transformed Tenochtitlan into the thriving imperial
capital seen by the invading Spaniards.?


5.The Great Mountain Shrines of Tetzcotzingo and Mt. Tlaloc

Speaker?Dr. Richard Townsend, Art Institute of Chicago

?Individual leadership and initiative has ever been a determining
force in collective human endeavors. The formation of the Aztec
empire is rich in examples of dynamic rulers who creatively developed
unifying projects during the 15th century. This illustrated lecture
will review the design and functions of major ritual centers upon Mt.
Tetzcotzingo and Mt. Tlaloc, symbolically claiming the land and the
memory of those who were there long before, while uniting fractious
domains in shared ritual to ensure annual rains, the fertility of the
soil, the abundance of crops, and the prosperity of the community
from year to year.?

6.Monuments, Omens, and Historical Thought: the Transition from
Ahuitzotl to Motecuhzoma II.

Speaker?Dr. Emily Umberger, Arizona State University

Abstract pending.





-- 
John F. Schwaller
President,
SUNY Potsdam
44 Pierrepont Ave.
Potsdam, NY  13676
schwallr at potsdam.edu




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Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


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From chuckert at uv.mx  Fri Apr 25 23:32:11 2008
From: chuckert at uv.mx (Huckert Chantal)
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 18:32:11 -0500
Subject: Aztec exhibit, Field Musuem, 2008
Message-ID: <FRI.25.APR.2008.183211.0500.CHUCKERT@UV.MX>




-----Original Message-----
From: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org on behalf of nahuatl-request at lists.famsi.org
Sent: Fri 4/18/2008 12:00 PM
To: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
Subject: Nahuatl Digest, Vol 85, Issue 1
 
Send Nahuatl mailing list submissions to
	nahuatl at lists.famsi.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
	http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
	nahuatl-request at lists.famsi.org

You can reach the person managing the list at
	nahuatl-owner at lists.famsi.org

When replying, please change the Subject line of your email to match
the exact topic being discussed, and delete all but the most important
text from previous messages.


Today's Topics:

   1. Exhibit at Field Museum (John F. Schwaller)


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Message: 1
Date: 17 Apr 2008 19:22:00 -0400
From: "John F. Schwaller" <schwallr at potsdam.edu>
Subject: [Nahuat-l] Exhibit at Field Museum
To: "Nahuat-l ((messages))" <nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>
Message-ID: <4807DB98.1020802 at potsdam.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed

FIELD MUSEUM OF CHICAGO

The Aztec World
October 31, 2008?April 19, 2009


Explore the grandeur and complexity of one of the world's great  
civilizations. Within the span of 200 years, the Aztecs went from a  
nomadic group to one of the most powerful and influential societies  
ever, leaving behind a legacy that lives on today. Now, find out how  
an empire that began in the middle of a lake went on to become the  
center of the world. With hundreds of spectacular artifacts and works  
of art, assembled together for the first time, you can journey into  
the everyday lives of an ancient culture. Examine the deities,  
temples and sacrificial altars of Aztec religion. Explore the  
training, weapons and celebrations of Aztec warriors. Discover the  
privilege, possessions and treasures of Aztec rulers. And trace the  
remarkable rise and fall of The Aztec World exclusively at The Field  
Museum.

http://www.fieldmuseum.org/exhibits/aztecs_tempexhib.htm

-- 
*****************************
John F. Schwaller
President
SUNY - Potsdam
44 Pierrepont Ave.
Potsdam, NY  13676
Tel. 315-267-2100
FAX 315-267-2496



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End of Nahuatl Digest, Vol 85, Issue 1
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From chuckert at uv.mx  Fri Apr 25 23:35:53 2008
From: chuckert at uv.mx (Huckert Chantal)
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 18:35:53 -0500
Subject: Nahua archivo de la nacion
Message-ID: <FRI.25.APR.2008.183553.0500.CHUCKERT@UV.MX>




-----Original Message-----
From: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org on behalf of nahuatl-request at lists.famsi.org
Sent: Mon 2/18/2008 12:00 PM
To: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
Subject: Nahuatl Digest, Vol 77, Issue 1
 
Send Nahuatl mailing list submissions to
	nahuatl at lists.famsi.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
	http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
	nahuatl-request at lists.famsi.org

You can reach the person managing the list at
	nahuatl-owner at lists.famsi.org

When replying, please change the Subject line of your email to match
the exact topic being discussed, and delete all but the most important
text from previous messages.


Today's Topics:

   1. Documentos en nahuatl. (Ignacio Silva)


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Message: 1
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2008 16:28:51 -0600
From: "Ignacio Silva" <silva171270 at prodigy.net.mx>
Subject: [Nahuat-l] Documentos en nahuatl.
To: <nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>
Message-ID: <001201c871b4$794e84a0$4001a8c0 at gateway.2wire.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Listeros,

por este medio les envio la siguiente informacion:

Tengo en mis manos un CD que combina una base de datos con imagenes de documentos escritos en lengua nahuatl del Archivo General de la Nacion.

Esta base de datos tiene: la descripcion del documento, su ubicacion topografica, su identificacion en el fondo documental (todos los documentos son del fondo Tierras), el a?o al que pertenece el documento, y en caso de haber una pictografia, esto se combina con la imagen, la cual aparece en pantalla al mismo tiempo que la descripcion del documento.

La cantidad total de documentos en nahuatl (digitalizados en resolucion de 300 dpi) es de mas de seiscientas imagenes.

Asimismo tiene un motor de busqueda que permite localizar un documentos por a?o de elaboracion, por lugar donde fue elaborado y por el volumen al que pertenece.

Yo tengo los derechos del CD y estoy vendiendo copias del mismo a quien resulte interesado en adquirirlo. El costo del CD, acompa?ado de una caratula y del catalogo ademas de una breve presentaci?n del trabajo de digitalizacion de los documentos es de $700 dolares.

Quien este interesado en adquirir una copia, contacteme por este medio para arreglar un contrato.

Ignacio Silva.
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From chuckert at uv.mx  Fri Apr 25 23:46:45 2008
From: chuckert at uv.mx (Huckert Chantal)
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 18:46:45 -0500
Subject: Instituto de lenguas indigenas, web site, publication
Message-ID: <FRI.25.APR.2008.184645.0500.CHUCKERT@UV.MX>




-----Original Message-----
From: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org on behalf of nahuatl-request at lists.famsi.org
Sent: Mon 3/10/2008 11:00 AM
To: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
Subject: Nahuatl Digest, Vol 80, Issue 1
 
Send Nahuatl mailing list submissions to
	nahuatl at lists.famsi.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
	http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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	nahuatl-owner at lists.famsi.org

When replying, please change the Subject line of your email to match
the exact topic being discussed, and delete all but the most important
text from previous messages.


Today's Topics:

   1. Libro: Lectura del nahauatl (David Wright)


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Message: 1
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 09:55:18 -0600
From: "David Wright" <dcwright at prodigy.net.mx>
Subject: [Nahuat-l] Libro: Lectura del nahauatl
To: "Nahuat-l \(messages\)" <nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>
Message-ID:
	<!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFSuI922EoRPiKSCadztChvCgAAAEAAAAM5+PxGAiw1NhnBl6uTvOVoBAAAAAA==@prodigy.net.mx>
	
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Parece que el servidor de FAMSI no puede transmitir los caracteres
extendidos que produce un teclado en castellano, por lo que estoy reenviando
mi mensaje anterior, purgado de letras vocales con acentos y enes con
tildes.
 
****************************************************************************
*****
 
Estimados listeros nahuatlatos:
 
El lunes 10 se va a presentar mi gramatica nahuatl en Guanajuato, segun
pueden leer en la invitacion que aparecio en la lista H-Mexico, puesto en
Nahuat-l recientemente por nuestro colega John Schwaller. A continuacion se
presentan los datos completos:
 
David Charles Wright Carr, Lectura del nahuatl, fundamentos para la
traduccion de los textos en nahuatl del periodo Novohispano temprano,
Mexico, Instituto Nacional de Lenguas Indigenas, 2007, 273 pp.
 
Se trata de un libro de texto que he elaborado para la ensenanza del nahuatl
colonial a alumnos que hablen el castellano como lengua materna y quienes
desean aprender a hacer traducciones originales de las fuentes manuscritas e
impresas del periodo 1521-1650. El metodo que se desarrolla en este libro es
bastante sencillo. El analisis se hace por trozos cortos, frase por frase,
con los siguientes pasos (que no son necesariamente consecutivos):

 

- una transcripcion paleografica del texto que se piensa traducir,
respetando la ortografia, abreviaturas y puntacion del texto original;

- una version modernizada, usando nuestra ortografia "tradicional fonemica",
restituyendo los saltillos (con la letras "h") y las vocales largas (con
rayitas horizontales arriba de las letras);

- un analisis morfemico, separando cada palabra en sus partes constitutivas
y senalando los cambios fonologicos que hayan experimentado los morfemas;

- la identificacion gramatical de cada morfema, con traducciones de todas
las raices;

- una traduccion libre, entre comillas, buscando comunicar la idea en
castellano, de una manera natural, sin alejarse de lo que expresa el texto
en nahuatl.
 
Si alguien desea adquirir ejemplares, puede ponerse en contacto con el
Instituto Nacional de Lenguas Indigenas (INALI). En su sitio web hay una
pagina con sus publicaciones (todavia no ponen ahi este libro), incluyendo
los datos de contacto:
 
http://www.inali.gob.mx/ind-publicaciones.html
 
Saludos cordiales,
 
David Wright
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From chuckert at uv.mx  Sat Apr 26 00:00:13 2008
From: chuckert at uv.mx (Huckert Chantal)
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 19:00:13 -0500
Subject: FAMSI scholarship 2007, Daneels, La joya,
 Mno earthern architecture
Message-ID: <FRI.25.APR.2008.190013.0500.CHUCKERT@UV.MX>




-----Original Message-----
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Sent: Fri 4/25/2008 6:32 PM
To: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
Subject: Nahuatl Digest, Vol 86, Issue 5
 
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Today's Topics:

   1. FAmsi scholarship 2007, Daneels, La joya,	Mno earthern
      architecture (Huckert Chantal)
   2. Aztec exhibit, Field Musuem, 2008 (Huckert Chantal)


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Message: 1
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 18:30:20 -0500
From: "Huckert Chantal" <chuckert at uv.mx>
Subject: [Nahuat-l] FAmsi scholarship 2007, Daneels, La joya,	Mno
	earthern architecture
To: <nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>, "Huckert Chantal" <chuckert at uv.mx>
Message-ID:
	<A657C39260476E41932F88735E8CECD902588EC0 at exxaluv02.xalapa.intra.uv.mx>
	
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-----Original Message-----
From: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org on behalf of nahuatl-request at lists.famsi.org
Sent: Sat 4/19/2008 12:00 PM
To: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
Subject: Nahuatl Digest, Vol 85, Issue 2
 
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Today's Topics:

   1. Research/Informes--Caucel, La Joya, San Miguel Acocotla,	El
      Zotz, La Sufricaya, Jalisco, Oaxaca, Chichen Itza, Naranjo,
      Montana de Guerrero, Parangaricutiro (sylvia at famsi.org)
   2. Power and Politics in the Late Aztec Period, Wash. DC
      (John F. Schwaller)


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Message: 1
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 14:23:45 -0400
From: <sylvia at famsi.org>
Subject: [Nahuat-l] Research/Informes--Caucel, La Joya, San Miguel
	Acocotla,	El Zotz, La Sufricaya, Jalisco, Oaxaca, Chichen Itza,
	Naranjo,	Montana de Guerrero, Parangaricutiro
To: <nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>
Message-ID: <001e01c8a181$576b44c0$2801a8c0 at sylvia>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
	reply-type=original

Hello Mesoamericanists,

New grantee final reports published this month at FAMSI website:

Monumental Earthen Architecture at La Joya, Veracruz, Mexico (2007)
by Annick J.E. Daneels.
http://www.famsi.org/reports/07021/index.html

Proyectos Costa Maya and Ciudad Caucel: Archaeological Survey
of Northwestern Yucatan: Ceramic and Lithic Analysis (2007)
by Anthony P. Andrews and Fernando Robles Castellanos.
http://www.famsi.org/reports/07034/index.html

Historical Archaeology and Indigenous Identity at the Ex-Hacienda
San Miguel Acocotla, Atlixco, Puebla, Mexico (2006)
by Elizabeth Terese Newman and Harold Juli.
http://www.famsi.org/reports/06010/index.html

Satellite Survey of El Zotz, Guatemala (2007)
by Zachary Nelson.
http://www.famsi.org/reports/07055/index.html


Grantee reports translated from Spanish to English:

Archaeological Research in the Holmul Region, Peten, Guatemala (2004)
by Francisco Estrada-Belli.
http://www.famsi.org/reports/03103C/index.html

The Agave Landscape and its Archaeological Context in the Tequila Volcano 
Area (2007)
by Verenice Y. Heredia Espinoza.
http://www.famsi.org/reports/07012/index.html

Toponymic Analysis of Three Lienzos from the Mixtec Lowlands, Oaxaca (2001)
by Laura Rodriguez Cano.
http://www.famsi.org/reports/00024/index.html

Chen K'u: The Ceramic of the Sacred Cenote at Chichen Itza, Study of the
Ceramic Fragments of the Explorations Conducted in the 60s (1998)
by Eduardo J. Perez de Heredia Puente.
http://www.famsi.org/reports/97061/index.html


Informes en Espanol:

El Mapa de la Periferia Suroeste de Naranjo, Peten, Guatemala (2006)
por Vilma Fialko.
http://www.famsi.org/reports/06098es/index.html

Fundacion, Asentamiento y Dinamica Politica en la Montana
de Guerrero S. XIV-XVI (2005)
por Flor Yenin Ceron Rojas.
http://www.famsi.org/reports/05052es/index.html

Las Pinturas en los Riscos de Parangaricutiro, Michoacan, Mexico (2002)
por Tricia Gabany-Guerrero.
http://www.famsi.org/reports/01088es/index.html

Saludos a todos,

Sylvia Perrine, Archivist
Foundation for the Advancement of Mesoamerican Studies, Inc.
http://www.famsi.org/index.html
http://www.famsi.org/spanish/



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Message: 2
Date: 18 Apr 2008 21:42:20 -0400
From: "John F. Schwaller" <schwallr at potsdam.edu>
Subject: [Nahuat-l] Power and Politics in the Late Aztec Period, Wash.
	DC
To: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
Message-ID:
	<1274.75.221.37.244.1208569340.squirrel at bearmail.potsdam.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1


Power and Politics in the Late Aztec Period

A one-day symposium

Saturday, September 13, 2008

Please join the Pre-Columbian Society of Washington, D.C. as we
explore manifestations of Aztec power and politics in one of the New
World?s most powerful and complex empires.

Titles (and Abstracts Received)

1.Trade, Tribute and Markets in the Aztec Imperial World

Speaker?Dr. Frances Berdan, University of California/San Bernardino

?The Aztec empire experienced a brief but flamboyant history, lasting
only from 1428 until its conquest by the Spaniards in 1521. During
that brief time, life under Aztec rule saw haughty professional
merchants traveling long distances with their luxurious wares,
conquered city-states paying large quantities of tribute to their
conquerors, and bustling marketplaces offering virtually every
commodity available within (and beyond) the imperial boundaries. In
this setting, many luxury goods advertised political power and social
status during occasions of public display and by serving as
ceremonial offerings. This presentation explores the political and
social world of luxuries such as decorated cotton clothing, previous
stone and feather ornaments, feathered warrior costumes and cacao. It
highlights the political and social connection of these preciosities
as they moved from hand to hand in the intricate Aztec economy:
professional merchants were agents of the state as well as private
entrepreneurs, and their occasional associations sparked wars;
tribute payments symbolized subservience; and busy marketplaces were
signs of economic prosperity and political importance.?

2.Aztec Imperial Strategies from the Bottom Up: A View from the
Pictorial Histories

Speaker?Dr. Lori Diel, Texas Christian University

Abstract pending.

3.Aztec Militarism

Speaker?Dr. John Pohl, Fowler Museum of UCLA

?According to one popular image, the Aztec army was a ruthless and
efficient war machine that established an empire by convincingly
overwhelming its neighbors, sacrificing thousands to bloodthirsty
gods along the way. The reality shows that Aztec warfare was much
richer and far more complex than previously understood. The
presentation will reveal a close relationship between economic and
social matters in Aztec society, as well as the religious, by
comparing and contrasting the empire?s motivations with those of
their principal opponents, a confederacy dominated by the Eastern
Nahua, Mixtec and Zapotec peoples of southern Mexico.?

4.Architecture, Power, and Kingship at Aztec Cities outside Tenochtitlan

Speaker?Dr. Michael Smith, Arizona State University

?Most Aztec cities were founded in the twelfth century in the wake of
the Aztlan migrations. Although they were relatively small cities
compared to Tenochtitlan, their role as capitals of city-states gave
them political prominence in the central Mexican social landscape.
Kings designed and constructed the public buildings in these cities
in order to project messages about power, control, legitimacy, and
sacredness. These messages originated in both the individual
buildings (temples, ball courts, platforms, and palaces), and in
their planned layout within urban epicenters. I explore the various
levels of meaning of Aztec architecture, including sacred symbolism,
political ideology, references to the Toltec past and visual impact
on people in the urban center. The architectural and political
patterns of city-state capitals were later adopted by the Mexica
kings, who transformed Tenochtitlan into the thriving imperial
capital seen by the invading Spaniards.?


5.The Great Mountain Shrines of Tetzcotzingo and Mt. Tlaloc

Speaker?Dr. Richard Townsend, Art Institute of Chicago

?Individual leadership and initiative has ever been a determining
force in collective human endeavors. The formation of the Aztec
empire is rich in examples of dynamic rulers who creatively developed
unifying projects during the 15th century. This illustrated lecture
will review the design and functions of major ritual centers upon Mt.
Tetzcotzingo and Mt. Tlaloc, symbolically claiming the land and the
memory of those who were there long before, while uniting fractious
domains in shared ritual to ensure annual rains, the fertility of the
soil, the abundance of crops, and the prosperity of the community
from year to year.?

6.Monuments, Omens, and Historical Thought: the Transition from
Ahuitzotl to Motecuhzoma II.

Speaker?Dr. Emily Umberger, Arizona State University

Abstract pending.





-- 
John F. Schwaller
President,
SUNY Potsdam
44 Pierrepont Ave.
Potsdam, NY  13676
schwallr at potsdam.edu




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Message: 2
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 18:32:11 -0500
From: "Huckert Chantal" <chuckert at uv.mx>
Subject: [Nahuat-l] Aztec exhibit, Field Musuem, 2008
To: <nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>, "Huckert Chantal" <chuckert at uv.mx>
Message-ID:
	<A657C39260476E41932F88735E8CECD902588EC1 at exxaluv02.xalapa.intra.uv.mx>
	
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-----Original Message-----
From: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org on behalf of nahuatl-request at lists.famsi.org
Sent: Fri 4/18/2008 12:00 PM
To: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
Subject: Nahuatl Digest, Vol 85, Issue 1
 
Send Nahuatl mailing list submissions to
	nahuatl at lists.famsi.org

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Today's Topics:

   1. Exhibit at Field Museum (John F. Schwaller)


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Message: 1
Date: 17 Apr 2008 19:22:00 -0400
From: "John F. Schwaller" <schwallr at potsdam.edu>
Subject: [Nahuat-l] Exhibit at Field Museum
To: "Nahuat-l ((messages))" <nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>
Message-ID: <4807DB98.1020802 at potsdam.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed

FIELD MUSEUM OF CHICAGO

The Aztec World
October 31, 2008?April 19, 2009


Explore the grandeur and complexity of one of the world's great  
civilizations. Within the span of 200 years, the Aztecs went from a  
nomadic group to one of the most powerful and influential societies  
ever, leaving behind a legacy that lives on today. Now, find out how  
an empire that began in the middle of a lake went on to become the  
center of the world. With hundreds of spectacular artifacts and works  
of art, assembled together for the first time, you can journey into  
the everyday lives of an ancient culture. Examine the deities,  
temples and sacrificial altars of Aztec religion. Explore the  
training, weapons and celebrations of Aztec warriors. Discover the  
privilege, possessions and treasures of Aztec rulers. And trace the  
remarkable rise and fall of The Aztec World exclusively at The Field  
Museum.

http://www.fieldmuseum.org/exhibits/aztecs_tempexhib.htm

-- 
*****************************
John F. Schwaller
President
SUNY - Potsdam
44 Pierrepont Ave.
Potsdam, NY  13676
Tel. 315-267-2100
FAX 315-267-2496



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From ced22 at leicester.ac.uk  Fri Apr 25 18:18:09 2008
From: ced22 at leicester.ac.uk (Dodds, Dr C.E.)
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 19:18:09 +0100
Subject: dark/light skin color differences in pre- and post-conquest
 Mexico
In-Reply-To: <300C0A33-A9D9-40BA-A8C8-91F657376EC4@ipinc.net>
Message-ID: <FRI.25.APR.2008.191809.0100.CED22@LEICESTER.AC.UK>

Further to Kier's email, Diaz also talks about the hair being matted. He says 'Their hair was very long and so tangled that it could not have been parted unless they had cut it first. Moreover, it was all clotted with the blood which oozed from their ears, for they had offered them as a sacrifice that day.' (p.173 in the Penguin edition) I have never seen any mention of the black of the priests being related to blood on the skin, however. And if I remember rightly there are a number of mentions of them specifically being 'painted' black. (With soot I think?) It is true that blood goes blackish when dry and as the priests didn't wash then it's not impossible. I don't remember ever having seen a reference to this, however.

Caroline
--------------
Dr. Caroline Dodds
Lecturer in Early Modern History
School of Historical Studies
University of Leicester
University Road
Leicester
LE1 7RH

email: ced22 at le.ac.uk
http://www.le.ac.uk/history/people/ced22.html

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From rude at religion.ucsb.edu  Sat Apr 26 14:34:34 2008
From: rude at religion.ucsb.edu (Rudiger V. Busto)
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 07:34:34 -0700
Subject: dark/light skin color differences in pre- and post-conquest
 Mexico
In-Reply-To: <F0C0BFC5AF6F71479C404955AE1C9C0C0117AE9A3938@EXC-MBX1.cfs.le.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <SAT.26.APR.2008.073434.0700.RUDE@RELIGION.UCSB.EDU>

I don't have the text at hand, but following Caroline's note, Diaz notes 
that when Cortes orders the destruction of the idols at Cempoala (Veracruz) 
and the conversion of the Cempoalans, he cuts the long hair (matted?) of 
the priests and then forces them to wear white tunics instead of their 
apparently black ones.  As a tribute paying people to the Mexica, perhaps 
the Cempoalans adopted/were forced to "blacken" their priests == here by 
use of a tunic.  Or, of course, maybe "black" priests are a mesoamerican 
convention?

Rudy Busto
Religious Studies
UC-Santa Barbara

--On Friday, April 25, 2008 7:18 PM +0100 "Dodds, Dr C.E." 
<ced22 at leicester.ac.uk> wrote:

> Further to Kier's email, Diaz also talks about the hair being matted. He
> says 'Their hair was very long and so tangled that it could not have been
> parted unless they had cut it first. Moreover, it was all clotted with
> the blood which oozed from their ears, for they had offered them as a
> sacrifice that day.' (p.173 in the Penguin edition) I have never seen any
> mention of the black of the priests being related to blood on the skin,
> however. And if I remember rightly there are a number of mentions of them
> specifically being 'painted' black. (With soot I think?) It is true that
> blood goes blackish when dry and as the priests didn't wash then it's not
> impossible. I don't remember ever having seen a reference to this,
> however.
>
> Caroline
> --------------
> Dr. Caroline Dodds
> Lecturer in Early Modern History
> School of Historical Studies
> University of Leicester
> University Road
> Leicester
> LE1 7RH
>
> email: ced22 at le.ac.uk
> http://www.le.ac.uk/history/people/ced22.html
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl



Associate Professor & Graduate Advisor
Asian / Pacific American & Chican@/Latin@ Religions
Religious Studies Department
The University of California, Santa Barbara
Humanities and Social Sciences Building 3038
Santa Barbara, CA 93106-3130
http://www.religion.ucsb.edu/faculty/busto.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"From the heart of this dark, evacuated campus
I can hear the library humming in the night,
a choir of authors murmuring inside their books
along the unlit, alphabetical shelves...."
	--- Billy Collins, "Books" (1988)


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From oudyk at hotmail.com  Sat Apr 26 18:52:36 2008
From: oudyk at hotmail.com (Michel Oudijk)
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 18:52:36 +0000
Subject: dark/light skin color differences in pre- and post-conquest
 Mexico
In-Reply-To: <975422.28125.qm@web51709.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <SAT.26.APR.2008.185236.0000.OUDYK@HOTMAIL.COM>


It seems to me that the original message referred to skin color and not so much to painted skin like that of the priests. A good example of differences in skin color are in the Lienzo de Quauhquechollan where the Quauhquecholtecas depict themselves white while their Mayan enemies are depicted with darker skin. There is another scene just before arriving in Tehuantepec where they fight against very dark skinned warriors. No clue as to who these people are. For an excellent commentary see Florine Asselbergs' book 'Conquered Conquistadores' or her article in 'Mesoamérica', No. 44. Other instances of dark skin are references to dead people. For example in the Codex Dehesa or in Matrícula de Huexotzinco.
 
Hope this helps,
 
Michel> Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 06:37:25 -0700> From: mijobas at yahoo.com> To: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org> Subject: [Nahuat-l] dark/light skin color differences in pre- and post-conquest Mexico> > Dear Listeros,> > Does anyone know of or have any references to> differences of skin colors within Mexico, both in the> pre-Conquest and immediate post-Conquest eras? > > I am working on a paper and it involves an image from> the Florentine Codex (I've attached it to this email> but am not sure whether it will make it through). It> is on 245 verso of Volume 2 of the Florentine Codex> and depicts people stoking the chest cavity of a> sacrificial victim with wood, in preparation for a> fire. The victim is light-skinned while the others are> dark skinned.> > Are there any references to darker skinned people that> anyone knows of in any pre-Conquest context? This> illustration, of course, pre-dates casta paintings but> does anyone have any info or references on dark vs> light skin in the immediate post-Conquest period?> > Please feel free to email me directly and thanks in> advance,> > Best,> > Michael Stevenson> > > ____________________________________________________________________________________> Be a better friend, newshound, and > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
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From david_becraft at hotmail.com  Wed Apr 30 07:18:01 2008
From: david_becraft at hotmail.com (David Becraft)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 00:18:01 -0700
Subject: dark/light skin color differences in pre- and post-conquest
 Mexico
In-Reply-To: <F0C0BFC5AF6F71479C404955AE1C9C0C0117AE9A3938@EXC-MBX1.cfs.le.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <WED.30.APR.2008.001801.0700.DAVIDBECRAFT@HOTMAIL.COM>

Hello Listeros,

Didn't Priests commonly and ritually bathe twice a day?  My understanding is that bathing was not only a sanitary practice, it was also a ritual one.  Also, Tenoch is depicted as a very dark man in contrast to the other founders of Mexico-Tenochtitlan; is there any evidence that Tenoch was a Priest?  I don't recall the source, so I apologize beforehand, but I remember that possibly status was given to darker skinned people.

Pancho

----------------------------------------
> From: ced22 at leicester.ac.uk
> To: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 19:18:09 +0100
> Subject: Re: [Nahuat-l] dark/light skin color differences in pre-	and	post-conquest Mexico
> 
> Further to Kier's email, Diaz also talks about the hair being matted. He says 'Their hair was very long and so tangled that it could not have been parted unless they had cut it first. Moreover, it was all clotted with the blood which oozed from their ears, for they had offered them as a sacrifice that day.' (p.173 in the Penguin edition) I have never seen any mention of the black of the priests being related to blood on the skin, however. And if I remember rightly there are a number of mentions of them specifically being 'painted' black. (With soot I think?) It is true that blood goes blackish when dry and as the priests didn't wash then it's not impossible. I don't remember ever having seen a reference to this, however.
> 
> Caroline
> --------------
> Dr. Caroline Dodds
> Lecturer in Early Modern History
> School of Historical Studies
> University of Leicester
> University Road
> Leicester
> LE1 7RH
> 
> email: ced22 at le.ac.uk
> http://www.le.ac.uk/history/people/ced22.html
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl

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From ced22 at leicester.ac.uk  Wed Apr 30 11:58:04 2008
From: ced22 at leicester.ac.uk (Dodds, Dr C.E.)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 12:58:04 +0100
Subject: dark/light skin color differences in pre- and post-conquest
 Mexico
In-Reply-To: <BLU138-W37611654EC7086D7069628BD80@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <WED.30.APR.2008.125804.0100.CED22@LEICESTER.AC.UK>

Dear Listeros,

In response to Pancho's email, bathing was certainly both a sanitary and ritual activity, but it was not practised by Mexica priests. I wonder if you are thinking of the fact that it is believed that lay people (from the tlatoani downwards) liked to bathe twice a day. I don't know whether ritual bathing was common amongst priests in other indigenous Mexican cultures, but I think I am right in saying (though would welcome hearing about any source to the contrary) that bathing was prohibited amongst Mexica priests. Sacrificial victims were frequently bathed as part of the ritual, however.

And, yes, Tenoch is usually regarded as a priest or priest-king. Coester posits that he was 'priest and chief of a tribe representing the theocratic element of the population' (as opposed to Mexitli who represented the warriors). If true, that would link him fairly closely to the priestly side.(A. Coester, 'Mexico or Mejico?', Hispania, 8.2 (1925), p.113) This is contradicted by Caso and Wicke, however, who say he was 'only a military chief'. (A. Caso and C.R. Wicke, 'Land Tenure Amongst the Ancient Mexicans', American Anthropologist, 65.4 (1963), p.865) There's clearly some controversy about this, probably because we don't really know. Ingham collated the claims of Torquemada, Duran, Tezozomoc and the Codex Mendoza about the founders and came to the conclusion that Tenoch was the chief or King and Meci was the high priests, so it clearly isn't a conclusive link. (J.M. Ingham, 'Time and Space in Ancient Mexico', Man, 6.4 (1971), p.621) Tenoch is certainly usually described a!
 s a priest, however, and it may be that the semi-sacred status of rulers in early Mexico makes the distinction unhelpful in some contexts.

Yours,
Caroline

------
Dr Caroline Dodds
Lecturer in Early Modern History
School of Historical Studies
University of Leicester
University Road
Leicester
LE1 7RH

http://www.le.ac.uk/hi/people/ced22.html




-----Original Message-----
From: David Becraft [mailto:david_becraft at hotmail.com]
Sent: 30 April 2008 08:18
To: Dodds, Dr C.E.; nahuatl at lists.famsi.org ((messages))
Subject: RE: [Nahuat-l] dark/light skin color differences in pre- and post-conquest Mexico





Hello Listeros,

Didn't Priests commonly and ritually bathe twice a day?  My understanding is that bathing was not only a sanitary practice, it was also a ritual one.  Also, Tenoch is depicted as a very dark man in contrast to the other founders of Mexico-Tenochtitlan; is there any evidence that Tenoch was a Priest?  I don't recall the source, so I apologize beforehand, but I remember that possibly status was given to darker skinned people.

Pancho

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From laura.qorri at FONDASOL.FR  Sat Apr 26 20:36:36 2008
From: laura.qorri at FONDASOL.FR (Fidelia Gay)
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 03:36:36 +0700
Subject: Win the reputation of greatest lover
Message-ID: <SUN.27.APR.2008.033636.0700.LAURA.QORRI@FONDASOL.FR>

http://nicolasbry.com/blank.html Keep her satisfied every night


From schwallr at potsdam.edu  Fri Apr  4 00:59:32 2008
From: schwallr at potsdam.edu (John F. Schwaller)
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 20:59:32 -0400
Subject: [Fwd: [Aztlan] AZTEC TAX RECORDS DECODED]
Message-ID: <THU.3.APR.2008.205932.0400.SCHWALLR@POTSDAM.EDU>

---------------------------- Original Message ----------------------------
Subject: [Aztlan] AZTEC TAX RECORDS DECODED
From:    "michael ruggeri" <michaelruggeri at mac.com>
Date:    Thu, April 3, 2008 4:45 pm
To:      aztlan at lists.famsi.org
--------------------------------------------------------------------------


Listeros,

Scientists have decoded Aztec records showing how the Aztecs measured
tracts of land for taxation. Records from the Aztec city of
Tepetlaoztoc record each household and amount of land owned for tax
purposes. Codices from 1540-44 survive from that city. Five
algorithims were used using hearts, hands, and arrows for measuring
fractions. The records are meticulous and well organized.

National Geographic has the story here;

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/04/080403-aztec-math.html

Here is a tiny URL;

http://tinyurl.com/3c8tsf

Mike Ruggeri



Mike Ruggeri's Aztec and Toltec World

http://tinyurl.com/yqypej












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From mgimmel at utk.edu  Fri Apr  4 18:14:17 2008
From: mgimmel at utk.edu (Gimmel, Millie)
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 14:14:17 -0400
Subject: epatl/epazote
Message-ID: <FRI.4.APR.2008.141417.0400.MGIMMEL@UTK.EDU>

Could anyone help me understand the linguistic connection between epatl and epazotl/epazote? I know epatl is skunk and I know what epazote is and, based on the smell of epazote, a connection seems more than likely. 

many thanks, 

Millie
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From k_salmon at ipinc.net  Fri Apr  4 18:53:00 2008
From: k_salmon at ipinc.net (Kier Salmon)
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 11:53:00 -0700
Subject: epatl/epazote
In-Reply-To: <F5D75707-4413-4366-BC89-F2BF788D2AD1@mimectl>
Message-ID: <FRI.4.APR.2008.115300.0700.KSALMON@IPINC.NET>

Just looking in Karttunen I find,

Epa-tl (an animal that stinks [hiede])
Epatzac-tli (lentils)
Epazo-tl (yierba buena de esta Nueva Espa?a)  Chenopodium  ambrosiodes

With my very limited linguistic background I think their are two  
seperate root which don't actually have much to do with each other and  
they are Epa and Epazo.
Using R?mi Sim?on I find that Epatl is either a skunk or Croton  
vulpinum, a herb that causes vomiting, an expectorant.  Since FK  
states that Epazotl is henopodium  ambrosiodes we have another reason  
to believe that the two words come from different roots.

Personally, I find the smell and use of epazote a nice bitter spice  
that adds to any bean dish... nothing like a stink.

Sim?on also spells Epazotl "Epa?otl"  I find the orginazation of this  
dictionary a bit annoying, but if you can track down the word, helpful  
as a cross reference.




On Apr 4, 2008, at 11:14 AM, Gimmel, Millie wrote:
> Could anyone help me understand the linguistic connection between  
> epatl and epazotl/epazote? I know epatl is skunk and I know what  
> epazote is and, based on the smell of epazote, a connection seems  
> more than likely.
>
> many thanks,
>
> Millie
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


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From chuckert at uv.mx  Mon Apr  7 23:15:16 2008
From: chuckert at uv.mx (Huckert Chantal)
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 18:15:16 -0500
Subject: AxtecTax human parts measurements Nahuatl Digest, Vol 83, Issue 1
Message-ID: <MON.7.APR.2008.181516.0500.CHUCKERT@UV.MX>




-----Original Message-----
From: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org on behalf of nahuatl-request at lists.famsi.org
Sent: Fri 4/4/2008 11:00 AM
To: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
Subject: Nahuatl Digest, Vol 83, Issue 1
 
Send Nahuatl mailing list submissions to
	nahuatl at lists.famsi.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
	http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
	nahuatl-request at lists.famsi.org

You can reach the person managing the list at
	nahuatl-owner at lists.famsi.org

When replying, please change the Subject line of your email to match
the exact topic being discussed, and delete all but the most important
text from previous messages.


Today's Topics:

   1. [Fwd: [Aztlan] AZTEC TAX RECORDS DECODED] (John F. Schwaller)


--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**

Message: 1
Date: 3 Apr 2008 20:59:32 -0400
From: "John F. Schwaller" <schwallr at potsdam.edu>
Subject: [Nahuat-l] [Fwd: [Aztlan] AZTEC TAX RECORDS DECODED]
To: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
Message-ID:
	<4264.137.143.153.77.1207270772.squirrel at bearmail.potsdam.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1






---------------------------- Original Message ----------------------------
Subject: [Aztlan] AZTEC TAX RECORDS DECODED
From:    "michael ruggeri" <michaelruggeri at mac.com>
Date:    Thu, April 3, 2008 4:45 pm
To:      aztlan at lists.famsi.org
--------------------------------------------------------------------------


Listeros,

Scientists have decoded Aztec records showing how the Aztecs measured
tracts of land for taxation. Records from the Aztec city of
Tepetlaoztoc record each household and amount of land owned for tax
purposes. Codices from 1540-44 survive from that city. Five
algorithims were used using hearts, hands, and arrows for measuring
fractions. The records are meticulous and well organized.

National Geographic has the story here;

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/04/080403-aztec-math.html

Here is a tiny URL;

http://tinyurl.com/3c8tsf

Mike Ruggeri



Mike Ruggeri's Aztec and Toltec World

http://tinyurl.com/yqypej












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Aztlan mailing list
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/aztlan
Click here to post a message Aztlan at lists.famsi.org
Click to view Calendar of Events http://research.famsi.org/events/events.php








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From chuckert at uv.mx  Mon Apr  7 23:19:36 2008
From: chuckert at uv.mx (Huckert Chantal)
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 18:19:36 -0500
Subject: John Sullivan address: Nahuatl Digest, Vol 77, Issue 3
Message-ID: <MON.7.APR.2008.181936.0500.CHUCKERT@UV.MX>




-----Original Message-----
From: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org on behalf of nahuatl-request at lists.famsi.org
Sent: Fri 2/22/2008 12:00 PM
To: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
Subject: Nahuatl Digest, Vol 77, Issue 3
 
Send Nahuatl mailing list submissions to
	nahuatl at lists.famsi.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
	http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
	nahuatl-request at lists.famsi.org

You can reach the person managing the list at
	nahuatl-owner at lists.famsi.org

When replying, please change the Subject line of your email to match
the exact topic being discussed, and delete all but the most important
text from previous messages.


Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Nahuatl programs in Mexico (Kier Salmon)
   2. Re: Nahuatl programs in Mexico (Kier Salmon)
   3. Re: Nahuatl programs in Mexico (Kier Salmon)
   4. Re: Nahuatl programs in Mexico (Michael Swanton)


--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:54:29 -0800
From: Kier Salmon <k_salmon at ipinc.net>
Subject: Re: [Nahuat-l] Nahuatl programs in Mexico
To: "John Sullivan, Ph.D." <idiez at mac.com>
Cc: "Nahuat-l \(\(messages\)\)" <nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>
Message-ID: <B67E252C-97C2-43BA-BC95-2BEC3A0D738A at ipinc.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes

Estimado... I know I saw a "school" advertising Nahuatl teaching on  
the highway between Tepotzlan and Cuernavaca about three years ago.  I  
have no idea of anything more about it's quality, credentials or  
anything else.  (But it looked like many school in Mexico; shoestring  
budget, no credentials and probably the programs are more on the lines  
of twice a week two hours.)
If I come to Mexico in June, I'll be going from Cuernavaca to  
Tepotztlan and can write down the telephone as I pass.

Kier

On Feb 21, 2008, at 10:22 AM, John Sullivan, Ph.D. wrote:

> Listeros,
> 	I think I asked this question a while ago but got no answers, so  
> I?ll try again. Can anyone comment on the quality of any Nahuatl  
> programs (for non-native speakers) in Mexico, beside the ones run by  
> myself and Jonathan Amith? The specific reason for this request is  
> that a person contacted me requesting this information, because  
> Jonathan?s program and mine are out of his price range; however, it  
> would also be nice to know who else here has this type of program.
> John
>
> John Sullivan, Ph.D.
> Profesor de lengua y cultura nahua
> Universidad Aut?noma de Zacatecas
> Instituto de Docencia e Investigaci?n Etnol?gica de Zacatecas, A.C.
> Tacuba 152, int. 47
> Centro Hist?rico
> Zacatecas, Zac. 98000
> M?xico
> Oficina: +52 (492) 925-3415
> Fax: +52 (492) 925-3416
> Domicilio: +52 (492) 768-6048
> Celular: +52 (492) 118-0854
> idiez at mac.com
> www.idiez.org.mx
> www.macehualli.org
> <John Sullivan, Ph.D..vcf>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl




--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**

Message: 2
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:59:06 -0800
From: Kier Salmon <k_salmon at ipinc.net>
Subject: Re: [Nahuat-l] Nahuatl programs in Mexico
To: Kier Salmon <k_salmon at ipinc.net>
Cc: "Nahuat-l \(\(messages\)\)" <nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>
Message-ID: <DA951C93-A3AF-48E9-959F-C441D69A31D3 at ipinc.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed; delsp=yes

Que barbaridad!

On Feb 21, 2008, at 10:54 AM, Kier Salmon wrote:

> ?b??h????z0"??k?
??%??oz?b?)?5?nj?my?!?x(??^?(! 
> ???z?
zt???s??????z????i?.??ky??j????
> ?????y?j| ?)????i?.?+?????+r???u????l?????b??????b?Z(??e?G?j| 
> ?r(?)?{???!??-?)?n?`z?????u????ljwi???n\
> ?k?
> ????zj+z??
> ?b??(~?"q??y?-??h??????r????
?'(?rn????Y[z
> "???`?z?????????s?V?jw\j|+????	?
> ?^??a?w???Z???????W??_??O?j?t?m?3?h?t??X?j??????- 
> {????^?????a?yj?
v?b????????!?W?????
> -???????(????[k????jv????r??z{h??^??????}??5?nj???? ???? 
> +?????b??)y?
?????????m?"u?az?????o/????}??&????h ???z?^r'?r????? 
> ??a???????+???j??????{Zr?????????)????w??f ???m????&??????)?? 
> +jf?vh?y????h~????z???????z????(?WZ??zx?z?$??0?????^ ?Z??b???z???? 
> +jo?&?g??h?t??X?j???????}?( ??zx.k'.???jv?????+????i?.??? 
> ?f?y??j??j????b??hu??q?????????(r/??Kg 
> ?_??'u?Zq?^q?????6?????o??????????
+-???r??i?? 
> y???????4?O???br??~'"????o??o?????^??????????n???z?:&?? 
> ?????o??o???????	?n??????????_???x?'b{??i???o???v'?????l??
???
????/ 
> ???&?gJ?e????????q??????????????????????????????????????????????e?? 
> ??x%???5?nj???+-???????????i?????jk"????f??f??X??)??????  
> ????????????????????????????????????5?nj?fj)b?	b??Z?? ??b???}???? 
> +?m????
?}????+????Y???b???~??j?
>




--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**

Message: 3
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 11:05:54 -0800
From: Kier Salmon <k_salmon at ipinc.net>
Subject: Re: [Nahuat-l] Nahuatl programs in Mexico
To: Kier Salmon <k_salmon at ipinc.net>
Cc: "Nahuat-l \(\(messages\)\)" <nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>
Message-ID: <0F424BA9-3804-45D0-BBF3-6C5CCE8B1B8F at ipinc.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes

Estimado... I know I saw a "school" advertising Nahuatl teaching on  
the highway between Tepotzlan and Cuernavaca about three years ago.  I  
have no idea of anything more about it's quality, credentials or  
anything else.  (But it looked like many school in Mexico; shoestring  
budget, no credentials and probably the programs are more on the lines  
of twice a week two hours.)
If I come to Mexico in June, I'll be going from Cuernavaca to  
Tepotztlan and can write down the telephone as I pass.

Kier

On Feb 21, 2008, at 10:22 AM, John Sullivan, Ph.D. wrote:

> Listeros,
> 	I think I asked this question a while ago but got no answers, so  
> I?ll try again. Can anyone comment on the quality of any Nahuatl  
> programs (for non-native speakers) in Mexico, beside the ones run by  
> myself and Jonathan Amith? The specific reason for this request is  
> that a person contacted me requesting this information, because  
> Jonathan?s program and mine are out of his price range; however, it  
> would also be nice to know who else here has this type of program.
> John
>
> John Sullivan, Ph.D.
> Profesor de lengua y cultura nahua
> Universidad Aut?noma de Zacatecas
> Instituto de Docencia e Investigaci?n Etnol?gica de Zacatecas, A.C.
> Tacuba 152, int. 47
> Centro Hist?rico
> Zacatecas, Zac. 98000
> M?xico
> Oficina: +52 (492) 925-3415
> Fax: +52 (492) 925-3416
> Domicilio: +52 (492) 768-6048
> Celular: +52 (492) 118-0854
> idiez at mac.com
> www.idiez.org.mx
> www.macehualli.org
> <John Sullivan, Ph.D..vcf>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl




--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**

Message: 4
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 20:45:27 -0800 (PST)
From: Michael Swanton <mwswanton at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Nahuat-l] Nahuatl programs in Mexico
To: Kier Salmon <k_salmon at ipinc.net>
Cc: "Nahuat-l \(\(messages\)\)" <nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>
Message-ID: <886227.74730.qm at web31711.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

To the listserv members,
I would be most grateful if you would please write
your messages in ASCII characters.

--- Kier Salmon <k_salmon at ipinc.net> wrote:

> ?b??h"I?????
??%i??????x
j??[^i?b?
> '???pk&????7????jv?t+??v?i??n????{'??? 
?Z???????????b?
>
??????b???jX????u????l?????b????n?+e??
vX?zf???!??b?????,???????????g???u????ljwi???n\???k?
> ????zj+z????b??(~?"q??y?-??h??|?(??h1?br??&??"Y[z
> "???`?z?????????s?V?jw\j|+????
>
???^??a?w???Z???z?????m4??u?m?0?!?+??+???C??-x???????a?yj?
v?b????????!?W?????
> -????????[k???p?????w??i???'????b?*j|?j??Zk?
> ?????z'??b??)y?
???1?br???'^????+?v??+
???t?'j?Z?
>
???z?^r'?r???????a???????+-??Z????w(?????fz????-?x-?+"??+??b?v?q??x?'j?Z??k?
>
?????)?j?????+)?'
???z0z????(?WZ??zx?z?$??0?????^??Z??b???z????+jbh?rh?t??X?js?
??}?(???zx.k'.???jv???'????'Zt
????u?Zq?^q???b??hu??q?????????(r)??z%?'u?Zq?^q?
6?????h????z{k
x???????j??j?Zs?4?C1??~'"?????v?nw?^Ek???v?nw?^??h??X?????n???8?'??V?????mu?O9?'b{9?q?&?
"v'???&?
0??
????*+??!?+??+???C???j??Y??X??X??????e?+-????*+?m??????????j)fj???b?????nj?Mj??Y??X??X??????e?+-????*+?m??????????j)fj???b?????nj?



      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page. 
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs


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End of Nahuatl Digest, Vol 77, Issue 3
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From idiez at mac.com  Thu Apr 10 18:30:33 2008
From: idiez at mac.com (John Sullivan, Ph.D.)
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 13:30:33 -0500
Subject: yolic huan yolic
Message-ID: <THU.10.APR.2008.133033.0500.IDIEZ@MAC.COM>

Listeros,
Esperando que reciban este coreo, porque me han sacado de la lista  
cuatro veces en los ?ltimos seis meses.... Here is my question from  
Modern Huastecan Nahuatl:
1. "yolic", "somebody or something slow",  is a conjugatable agentive  
noun which comes from the class 2 verb "yoli", "to be engendered, to  
live, to be revived". I can say, "niyolic", "I am (a) slow (person)",  
or "tiyoliqueh", "We are slow (people)".
2. However, "yolic" can also be used as an adverb, "slowly", in which  
case it is not conjugated. "Nitequiti yolic", "I work slowly", and  
"Titequitih yolic", "We work slowly".
3. So for purposes of grammatical classification (I know you don't  
like that, Joe), could we say that there are two "yolic's": one a noun  
and one a particle (because it is frozen)?
John

John Sullivan, Ph.D.
Profesor de lengua y cultura nahua
Universidad Aut?noma de Zacatecas
Instituto de Docencia e Investigaci?n Etnol?gica de Zacatecas, A.C.
Tacuba 152, int. 47
Centro Hist?rico
Zacatecas, Zac. 98000
M?xico
Oficina: +52 (492) 925-3415
Fax: +52 (492) 925-3416
Domicilio: +52 (492) 768-6048
Celular: +52 (492) 118-0854
idiez at mac.com
www.idiez.org.mx
www.macehualli.org





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From jonathan.amith at yale.edu  Thu Apr 10 21:03:12 2008
From: jonathan.amith at yale.edu (jonathan.amith at yale.edu)
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 17:03:12 -0400
Subject: yolic huan yolic
In-Reply-To: <6C6432A4-B39D-4200-A950-0C7F7B64CE0F@mac.com>
Message-ID: <THU.10.APR.2008.170312.0400.>

Hi John,

The question came through as an attachment. I would consider that words like
chipa:wak, yo:li:k, we:i, ista:k, etc. are all potentially modifiers and
predicates. I don't think yo:li:k is an agentive. The first two are deverbal,
the third is underived (one of the few such "adjectives") and the last is
denominal. Other terms, such as yema:nki seem to fall into a denominal pattern
(I believe Launey considers them so) although the stem is no longer present as
a noun.

Anyway, modification in Nahuatl can be of a noun (like chipa:wak motlake:n) or
of a verbal predicate (like yo:li:k nehnemi). I'm not sure if I would separate
the two as parts of speech, though maybe. For example, chika:wak is both
"adjectival" (noun modification, chika:wak moma:) and "adverbial" (chika:wak
tsahtsi). Most modifiers can be used predicatively, nichipa:wak, niyo:lik,
niwe:i, niista:k. In some variants, for example, miak is only a quantifier
whereas in norther Veracruz it is an adjective: miak tlasohka:mati. Etc.

Attributives are often incorporated and many speakers have trouble translating
phrases such as 'I am a lazy man' Some simply give nitlatsiw or nitlatski
(depending on variant), or will have two predications, nitlatsiw nitla:katl.
Others will compound nitlatsiwka:tla:katl, etc.

So, I would say, just one entry, yo:li:k that is a modifier/predicate modifier
that can be used predicatively. There is a book by Kees Hengeveld, Non-verbal
predication, that might have something on this. I seem to remember a typology
of his on modification and predication. I can't find it quickly in this book,
so it might be in an article of his on parts of speech in a book by Michael
Fortescue and others called Layered structure and reference in a functional
perspective.

Best,jda


Quoting "John Sullivan, Ph.D." <idiez at mac.com>:

> Listeros,
> Esperando que reciban este coreo, porque me han sacado de la lista  
> cuatro veces en los ?ltimos seis meses.... Here is my question from  
> Modern Huastecan Nahuatl:
> 1. "yolic", "somebody or something slow",  is a conjugatable agentive 
>  noun which comes from the class 2 verb "yoli", "to be engendered, to 
>  live, to be revived". I can say, "niyolic", "I am (a) slow 
> (person)",  or "tiyoliqueh", "We are slow (people)".
> 2. However, "yolic" can also be used as an adverb, "slowly", in which 
>  case it is not conjugated. "Nitequiti yolic", "I work slowly", and  
> "Titequitih yolic", "We work slowly".
> 3. So for purposes of grammatical classification (I know you don't  
> like that, Joe), could we say that there are two "yolic's": one a 
> noun  and one a particle (because it is frozen)?
> John
>
> John Sullivan, Ph.D.
> Profesor de lengua y cultura nahua
> Universidad Aut?noma de Zacatecas
> Instituto de Docencia e Investigaci?n Etnol?gica de Zacatecas, A.C.
> Tacuba 152, int. 47
> Centro Hist?rico
> Zacatecas, Zac. 98000
> M?xico
> Oficina: +52 (492) 925-3415
> Fax: +52 (492) 925-3416
> Domicilio: +52 (492) 768-6048
> Celular: +52 (492) 118-0854
> idiez at mac.com
> www.idiez.org.mx
> www.macehualli.org
>
>
>
>
>
>



-- 
Jonathan D. Amith
Director: Mexico-North Program on Indigenous Languages
Research Affiliate: Gettysburg College; Yale University; University of Chicago
(O) 717-337-6795
(H) 717-338-1255
Mail to:
Dept. of Sociology and Anthropology
Gettysburg College
Campus Box 412
300 N. Washington Street
Gettysburg, PA  17325

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From schwallr at potsdam.edu  Thu Apr 17 23:22:00 2008
From: schwallr at potsdam.edu (John F. Schwaller)
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 19:22:00 -0400
Subject: Exhibit at Field Museum
Message-ID: <THU.17.APR.2008.192200.0400.SCHWALLR@POTSDAM.EDU>

FIELD MUSEUM OF CHICAGO

The Aztec World
October 31, 2008?April 19, 2009


Explore the grandeur and complexity of one of the world's great  
civilizations. Within the span of 200 years, the Aztecs went from a  
nomadic group to one of the most powerful and influential societies  
ever, leaving behind a legacy that lives on today. Now, find out how  
an empire that began in the middle of a lake went on to become the  
center of the world. With hundreds of spectacular artifacts and works  
of art, assembled together for the first time, you can journey into  
the everyday lives of an ancient culture. Examine the deities,  
temples and sacrificial altars of Aztec religion. Explore the  
training, weapons and celebrations of Aztec warriors. Discover the  
privilege, possessions and treasures of Aztec rulers. And trace the  
remarkable rise and fall of The Aztec World exclusively at The Field  
Museum.

http://www.fieldmuseum.org/exhibits/aztecs_tempexhib.htm

-- 
*****************************
John F. Schwaller
President
SUNY - Potsdam
44 Pierrepont Ave.
Potsdam, NY  13676
Tel. 315-267-2100
FAX 315-267-2496

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From sylvia at famsi.org  Fri Apr 18 18:23:45 2008
From: sylvia at famsi.org (sylvia at famsi.org)
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 14:23:45 -0400
Subject: Research/Informes--Caucel, La Joya, San Miguel Acocotla, El Zotz,
 La Sufricaya, Jalisco, Oaxaca, Chichen Itza, Naranjo,
 Montana de Guerrero, Parangaricutiro
Message-ID: <FRI.18.APR.2008.142345.0400.>

Hello Mesoamericanists,

New grantee final reports published this month at FAMSI website:

Monumental Earthen Architecture at La Joya, Veracruz, Mexico (2007)
by Annick J.E. Daneels.
http://www.famsi.org/reports/07021/index.html

Proyectos Costa Maya and Ciudad Caucel: Archaeological Survey
of Northwestern Yucatan: Ceramic and Lithic Analysis (2007)
by Anthony P. Andrews and Fernando Robles Castellanos.
http://www.famsi.org/reports/07034/index.html

Historical Archaeology and Indigenous Identity at the Ex-Hacienda
San Miguel Acocotla, Atlixco, Puebla, Mexico (2006)
by Elizabeth Terese Newman and Harold Juli.
http://www.famsi.org/reports/06010/index.html

Satellite Survey of El Zotz, Guatemala (2007)
by Zachary Nelson.
http://www.famsi.org/reports/07055/index.html


Grantee reports translated from Spanish to English:

Archaeological Research in the Holmul Region, Peten, Guatemala (2004)
by Francisco Estrada-Belli.
http://www.famsi.org/reports/03103C/index.html

The Agave Landscape and its Archaeological Context in the Tequila Volcano 
Area (2007)
by Verenice Y. Heredia Espinoza.
http://www.famsi.org/reports/07012/index.html

Toponymic Analysis of Three Lienzos from the Mixtec Lowlands, Oaxaca (2001)
by Laura Rodriguez Cano.
http://www.famsi.org/reports/00024/index.html

Chen K'u: The Ceramic of the Sacred Cenote at Chichen Itza, Study of the
Ceramic Fragments of the Explorations Conducted in the 60s (1998)
by Eduardo J. Perez de Heredia Puente.
http://www.famsi.org/reports/97061/index.html


Informes en Espanol:

El Mapa de la Periferia Suroeste de Naranjo, Peten, Guatemala (2006)
por Vilma Fialko.
http://www.famsi.org/reports/06098es/index.html

Fundacion, Asentamiento y Dinamica Politica en la Montana
de Guerrero S. XIV-XVI (2005)
por Flor Yenin Ceron Rojas.
http://www.famsi.org/reports/05052es/index.html

Las Pinturas en los Riscos de Parangaricutiro, Michoacan, Mexico (2002)
por Tricia Gabany-Guerrero.
http://www.famsi.org/reports/01088es/index.html

Saludos a todos,

Sylvia Perrine, Archivist
Foundation for the Advancement of Mesoamerican Studies, Inc.
http://www.famsi.org/index.html
http://www.famsi.org/spanish/

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From schwallr at potsdam.edu  Sat Apr 19 01:42:20 2008
From: schwallr at potsdam.edu (John F. Schwaller)
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 21:42:20 -0400
Subject: Power and Politics in the Late Aztec Period, Wash. DC
Message-ID: <FRI.18.APR.2008.214220.0400.SCHWALLR@POTSDAM.EDU>

Power and Politics in the Late Aztec Period

A one-day symposium

Saturday, September 13, 2008

Please join the Pre-Columbian Society of Washington, D.C. as we
explore manifestations of Aztec power and politics in one of the New
World?s most powerful and complex empires.

Titles (and Abstracts Received)

1.Trade, Tribute and Markets in the Aztec Imperial World

Speaker?Dr. Frances Berdan, University of California/San Bernardino

?The Aztec empire experienced a brief but flamboyant history, lasting
only from 1428 until its conquest by the Spaniards in 1521. During
that brief time, life under Aztec rule saw haughty professional
merchants traveling long distances with their luxurious wares,
conquered city-states paying large quantities of tribute to their
conquerors, and bustling marketplaces offering virtually every
commodity available within (and beyond) the imperial boundaries. In
this setting, many luxury goods advertised political power and social
status during occasions of public display and by serving as
ceremonial offerings. This presentation explores the political and
social world of luxuries such as decorated cotton clothing, previous
stone and feather ornaments, feathered warrior costumes and cacao. It
highlights the political and social connection of these preciosities
as they moved from hand to hand in the intricate Aztec economy:
professional merchants were agents of the state as well as private
entrepreneurs, and their occasional associations sparked wars;
tribute payments symbolized subservience; and busy marketplaces were
signs of economic prosperity and political importance.?

2.Aztec Imperial Strategies from the Bottom Up: A View from the
Pictorial Histories

Speaker?Dr. Lori Diel, Texas Christian University

Abstract pending.

3.Aztec Militarism

Speaker?Dr. John Pohl, Fowler Museum of UCLA

?According to one popular image, the Aztec army was a ruthless and
efficient war machine that established an empire by convincingly
overwhelming its neighbors, sacrificing thousands to bloodthirsty
gods along the way. The reality shows that Aztec warfare was much
richer and far more complex than previously understood. The
presentation will reveal a close relationship between economic and
social matters in Aztec society, as well as the religious, by
comparing and contrasting the empire?s motivations with those of
their principal opponents, a confederacy dominated by the Eastern
Nahua, Mixtec and Zapotec peoples of southern Mexico.?

4.Architecture, Power, and Kingship at Aztec Cities outside Tenochtitlan

Speaker?Dr. Michael Smith, Arizona State University

?Most Aztec cities were founded in the twelfth century in the wake of
the Aztlan migrations. Although they were relatively small cities
compared to Tenochtitlan, their role as capitals of city-states gave
them political prominence in the central Mexican social landscape.
Kings designed and constructed the public buildings in these cities
in order to project messages about power, control, legitimacy, and
sacredness. These messages originated in both the individual
buildings (temples, ball courts, platforms, and palaces), and in
their planned layout within urban epicenters. I explore the various
levels of meaning of Aztec architecture, including sacred symbolism,
political ideology, references to the Toltec past and visual impact
on people in the urban center. The architectural and political
patterns of city-state capitals were later adopted by the Mexica
kings, who transformed Tenochtitlan into the thriving imperial
capital seen by the invading Spaniards.?


5.The Great Mountain Shrines of Tetzcotzingo and Mt. Tlaloc

Speaker?Dr. Richard Townsend, Art Institute of Chicago

?Individual leadership and initiative has ever been a determining
force in collective human endeavors. The formation of the Aztec
empire is rich in examples of dynamic rulers who creatively developed
unifying projects during the 15th century. This illustrated lecture
will review the design and functions of major ritual centers upon Mt.
Tetzcotzingo and Mt. Tlaloc, symbolically claiming the land and the
memory of those who were there long before, while uniting fractious
domains in shared ritual to ensure annual rains, the fertility of the
soil, the abundance of crops, and the prosperity of the community
from year to year.?

6.Monuments, Omens, and Historical Thought: the Transition from
Ahuitzotl to Motecuhzoma II.

Speaker?Dr. Emily Umberger, Arizona State University

Abstract pending.





-- 
John F. Schwaller
President,
SUNY Potsdam
44 Pierrepont Ave.
Potsdam, NY  13676
schwallr at potsdam.edu


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From david_becraft at hotmail.com  Fri Apr 25 12:23:00 2008
From: david_becraft at hotmail.com (David Becraft)
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 05:23:00 -0700
Subject: Tlacuilolli: Writing Systems of Anahuac
Message-ID: <FRI.25.APR.2008.052300.0700.DAVIDBECRAFT@HOTMAIL.COM>

To the MODERATOR (S),

Hi,  I would appreciate your help in removing the following WORD DOCUMENT from your listserv.  It is called, "Tlacuilolli: Writing Systems of Anahuac".  I am waiting to upload it in PDF format and am also waiting for it to publish.

I noticed it on the search engine Google and it comes up as follows:


[DOC]
Tlacuilolli: Writing Systems of Anahuac
File Format: Microsoft Word - View as HTML
Scholar: David Francisco Becraft Le?n. Ronald E. McNair Mentor: Dr. Jean Maxwell ... David Francisco Becraft Le?n is currently a senior at Southern Oregon ...
listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/wa?A3



I would love your attention on this matter ASAP, PLEASE.

DAVID
_________________________________________________________________
Back to work after baby?how do you know when you?re ready?
http://lifestyle.msn.com/familyandparenting/articleNW.aspx?cp-documentidW97498&ocid_______________________________________________
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From mijobas at yahoo.com  Fri Apr 25 13:37:25 2008
From: mijobas at yahoo.com (Michael Stevenson)
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 06:37:25 -0700
Subject: dark/light skin color differences in pre- and post-conquest Mexico
Message-ID: <FRI.25.APR.2008.063725.0700.MIJOBAS@YAHOO.COM>

Dear Listeros,

Does anyone know of or have any references to
differences of skin colors within Mexico, both in the
pre-Conquest and immediate post-Conquest eras? 

I am working on a paper and it involves an image from
the Florentine Codex (I've attached it to this email
but am not sure whether it will make it through). It
is on 245 verso of Volume 2 of the Florentine Codex
and depicts people stoking the chest cavity of a
sacrificial victim with wood, in preparation for a
fire. The victim is light-skinned while the others are
dark skinned.

Are there any references to darker skinned people that
anyone knows of in any pre-Conquest context? This
illustration, of course, pre-dates casta paintings but
does anyone have any info or references on dark vs
light skin in the immediate post-Conquest period?

Please feel free to email me directly and thanks in
advance,

Best,

Michael Stevenson


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and 
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
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From k_salmon at ipinc.net  Fri Apr 25 15:09:43 2008
From: k_salmon at ipinc.net (Kier Salmon)
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 08:09:43 -0700
Subject: dark/light skin color differences in pre- and post-conquest
 Mexico
In-Reply-To: <975422.28125.qm@web51709.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.25.APR.2008.080943.0700.KSALMON@IPINC.NET>

Bernal Diaz mentions skin color briefly.  He states that after the  
fall of Tenochtitlan when the survivors were being processed into  
slavery the conquistadores grabbed all the comely and "light skinned"  
women they could and that this was a disgraceful way to act for them.   
I also seem to recall a reference to women's makeup somewhere, that  
they put ointments of yellow on their skin in an effort to lighten the  
color.  ALl this suggests that they did have a color/skin tone  
perception linked with status.
But the lighter skinned sacrificial victim may have been smeared with  
ash.  THat I do remember is that they painted the skin of their  
sacrifices.
THe purpose, I haven't yet found a statement as to why.
Having grown up in Mexico, I can state there are color variations in  
"fully" indian villages, but I've never known if those are racial or a  
product of mestizaje.

On Apr 25, 2008, at 6:37 AM, Michael Stevenson wrote:

> Dear Listeros,
>
> Does anyone know of or have any references to
> differences of skin colors within Mexico, both in the
> pre-Conquest and immediate post-Conquest eras?
>
> I am working on a paper and it involves an image from
> the Florentine Codex (I've attached it to this email
> but am not sure whether it will make it through). It
> is on 245 verso of Volume 2 of the Florentine Codex
> and depicts people stoking the chest cavity of a
> sacrificial victim with wood, in preparation for a
> fire. The victim is light-skinned while the others are
> dark skinned.
>
> Are there any references to darker skinned people that
> anyone knows of in any pre-Conquest context? This
> illustration, of course, pre-dates casta paintings but
> does anyone have any info or references on dark vs
> light skin in the immediate post-Conquest period?
>
> Please feel free to email me directly and thanks in
> advance,
>
> Best,
>
> Michael Stevenson
>
>
>       
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Be a better friend, newshound, and
> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ 
> <fc245vx.jpg>_______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl

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From ced22 at leicester.ac.uk  Fri Apr 25 17:09:27 2008
From: ced22 at leicester.ac.uk (Dodds, Dr C.E.)
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 18:09:27 +0100
Subject: dark/light skin color differences in pre- and post-conquest
 Mexico
In-Reply-To: <975422.28125.qm@web51709.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.25.APR.2008.180927.0100.CED22@LEICESTER.AC.UK>

Dear Michael,

It may not be relevant to this image, but don't forget that priests were painted black. I'm not positive of the context of this image as I'm away from my office and can't look it up, so can't be sure if this is relevant here, but it is extremely reminiscent of depictions of priests. And, appearing as it does in a ritual context, I would not dismiss this as a possible reference.

In addition, following up Kier's comment, about smearing ash on the skins of victims, victims were also sometimes painted white, which might be relevant here.

Yours,
Caroline
-------------
Dr. Caroline Dodds
Lecturer in Early Modern History
School of Historical Studies
University of Leicester
University Road
Leicester
LE1 7RH

tel: 0116 223 1229
mobile: 07740675610
email: ced22 at le.ac.uk
http://www.le.ac.uk/history/people/ced22.html
________________________________________
From: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org [nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org] On Behalf Of Michael Stevenson [mijobas at yahoo.com]
Sent: 25 April 2008 14:37
To: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
Subject: [Nahuat-l] dark/light skin color differences in pre- and       post-conquest Mexico

Dear Listeros,

Does anyone know of or have any references to
differences of skin colors within Mexico, both in the
pre-Conquest and immediate post-Conquest eras?

I am working on a paper and it involves an image from
the Florentine Codex (I've attached it to this email
but am not sure whether it will make it through). It
is on 245 verso of Volume 2 of the Florentine Codex
and depicts people stoking the chest cavity of a
sacrificial victim with wood, in preparation for a
fire. The victim is light-skinned while the others are
dark skinned.

Are there any references to darker skinned people that
anyone knows of in any pre-Conquest context? This
illustration, of course, pre-dates casta paintings but
does anyone have any info or references on dark vs
light skin in the immediate post-Conquest period?

Please feel free to email me directly and thanks in
advance,

Best,

Michael Stevenson


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

_______________________________________________
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From ptcamn at gmail.com  Fri Apr 25 17:10:36 2008
From: ptcamn at gmail.com (ptcamn)
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 03:10:36 +1000
Subject: dark/light skin color differences in pre- and post-conquest
 Mexico
Message-ID: <SAT.26.APR.2008.031036.1000.PTCAMN@GMAIL.COM>

Priests are often depicted in the codices with darkened skin,
presumably due to some kind of paint. Compare the attached example
from the Codex Magliabechiano.

Probably not relevant to the Florentine Codex image, but since you
asked, darkness in some contexts was used to mark outsiders. One
Mixtec name for the Nahuas was "tay saminuu", meaning "people with
burnt faces", and they were so depicted in Mixtec codices. On the
other hand, it is the Mixtecs who are depicted with dark skin as well
as dark clothing in the Mapa de Cuauhtinchan No. 2. Finally, in
present-day Isthmus Nahuatl, the word tilti' (corresponding to the
more familiar tliltic "black") means "stranger/foreigner".

(Sources: Kevin Terraciano's Mixtecs of Colonial Oaxaca; Cave, City
and Eagle's Nest: An Interpretative Journey Through the Mapa de
Cuauhtinchan No. 2; Diccionario Nahuatl de los municipios de Mecayapan
y Tatahuicapan de Juarez, Veracruz.)
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From micc2 at cox.net  Fri Apr 25 17:52:27 2008
From: micc2 at cox.net (micc2 at cox.net)
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 13:52:27 -0400
Subject: dark/light skin color differences in pre- and post-conquest
 Mexico
In-Reply-To: <19c68cb40804251010y22737b70p74be9f25e7978c2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.25.APR.2008.135227.0400.>

I read somewhere in my past life, that the priest were black because they would not clean off the sacred blood of the victims, and as the blood dried and caked, it turned black, and it also matted their hair into fantastic shapes, like snakes.


---- ptcamn <ptcamn at gmail.com> wrote: 
> Priests are often depicted in the codices with darkened skin,
> presumably due to some kind of paint. Compare the attached example
> from the Codex Magliabechiano.
> 
> Probably not relevant to the Florentine Codex image, but since you
> asked, darkness in some contexts was used to mark outsiders. One
> Mixtec name for the Nahuas was "tay saminuu", meaning "people with
> burnt faces", and they were so depicted in Mixtec codices. On the
> other hand, it is the Mixtecs who are depicted with dark skin as well
> as dark clothing in the Mapa de Cuauhtinchan No. 2. Finally, in
> present-day Isthmus Nahuatl, the word tilti' (corresponding to the
> more familiar tliltic "black") means "stranger/foreigner".
> 
> (Sources: Kevin Terraciano's Mixtecs of Colonial Oaxaca; Cave, City
> and Eagle's Nest: An Interpretative Journey Through the Mapa de
> Cuauhtinchan No. 2; Diccionario Nahuatl de los municipios de Mecayapan
> y Tatahuicapan de Juarez, Veracruz.)

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From k_salmon at ipinc.net  Fri Apr 25 18:05:40 2008
From: k_salmon at ipinc.net (Kier Salmon)
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 11:05:40 -0700
Subject: dark/light skin color differences in pre- and post-conquest
 Mexico
In-Reply-To: <20080425135227.9C8E7.37895.imail@fed1rmwml36>
Message-ID: <FRI.25.APR.2008.110540.0700.KSALMON@IPINC.NET>

Now, that's not what I remember.  In Bernal Diaz it does talk of the  
"hedor" of the temples, but I seem to recall the color black was a  
thick oil mixed with charcoal... and I am working without texts today,  
so this answer is off the cuff.  It *should* be in the Florentine.
IIRC (If I Recall Correctly) "Heart of Green Stone" mentioned the  
blood in the hair.  Admittedly Salvador de Madriaga did a lot of  
research, but that was over 40 year ago.


On Apr 25, 2008, at 10:52 AM, <micc2 at cox.net> <micc2 at cox.net> wrote:

> I read somewhere in my past life, that the priest were black because  
> they would not clean off the sacred blood of the victims, and as the  
> blood dried and caked, it turned black, and it also matted their  
> hair into fantastic shapes, like snakes.
>
>
> ---- ptcamn <ptcamn at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Priests are often depicted in the codices with darkened skin,
>> presumably due to some kind of paint. Compare the attached example
>> from the Codex Magliabechiano.
>>
>> Probably not relevant to the Florentine Codex image, but since you
>> asked, darkness in some contexts was used to mark outsiders. One
>> Mixtec name for the Nahuas was "tay saminuu", meaning "people with
>> burnt faces", and they were so depicted in Mixtec codices. On the
>> other hand, it is the Mixtecs who are depicted with dark skin as well
>> as dark clothing in the Mapa de Cuauhtinchan No. 2. Finally, in
>> present-day Isthmus Nahuatl, the word tilti' (corresponding to the
>> more familiar tliltic "black") means "stranger/foreigner".
>>
>> (Sources: Kevin Terraciano's Mixtecs of Colonial Oaxaca; Cave, City
>> and Eagle's Nest: An Interpretative Journey Through the Mapa de
>> Cuauhtinchan No. 2; Diccionario Nahuatl de los municipios de  
>> Mecayapan
>> y Tatahuicapan de Juarez, Veracruz.)
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl

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From Ian.Mursell at btinternet.com  Fri Apr 25 19:30:46 2008
From: Ian.Mursell at btinternet.com (Ian Mursell)
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 20:30:46 +0100
Subject: dark/light skin color differences in pre- and post-conquest
 Mexico
Message-ID: <FRI.25.APR.2008.203046.0100.IAN.MURSELL@BTINTERNET.COM>

This image from the Florentine Codex comes from Book 7, Chapter 11.
Chapters 9-12 are all about the New Fire Ceremony in which a xiuhmolpilli
or ?bundle of [52] reeds?/years was burned.  This is the only image in these
chapters depicting human sacrifice and one has to assume it relates to this
all-important Aztec-century-welcoming ritual. The only part of the text to
mention the sacrifice (in Chapter 9) includes the following clue: 'And when
they drew the new fire, they drew it there at Uixachtlan, at midnight, when
the night divided in half.  They drew it upon the breast of a captive, and
it was a well-born one on whose breast [the priest] bored the fire drill.
And when a little [fire] fell, when it took flame, then speedily [the
priest] slashed open the breast of the captive, seized his heart, and
quickly cast it there into the fire.  Thus he fed, he served it to the fire.
And the body of [the captive] all came to an end in the flames.  And those
who drew fire were exclusively the  priests, the fire priests, the
devout...'  (from the Anderson & Dibble translation).

I include below a scan of the image which has - I think - a slightly more
accurate colour rendition: less green and more (ash!) grey/black in the skin
tones (of the priests, that is...)


It seems fair to conclude that the artist is here trying to make the victim
stand out symbolically from the surrounding priests, who, as everyone
agrees, would in real life have been painted/daubed black.  Would be good to
find time to research more in-depth into the New Fire ceremony itself from
other sources... 

Good wishes,

Ian

Ian Mursell

MirandaNet Fellow, Institute of Education, London University

Director, 'Mexicolore'
28 Warriner Gardens
London SW11 4EB, U.K.
Tel: +44 (0) 20 7622 9577
Fax: +44 (0) 20 7498 0173
www.aztecs.org
Ian.Mursell at btinternet.com
info at mexicolore.co.uk

1980-2005: 25 years of bringing Mexico and the Aztecs to life in schools and
museums throughout England.  Team visits, online teaching resources and
services, live interactive videoconferencing sessions, and much more - all
from Mexicolore, the 'highly successful teaching team' (British Museum
Education Service)



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From chuckert at uv.mx  Fri Apr 25 23:30:20 2008
From: chuckert at uv.mx (Huckert Chantal)
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 18:30:20 -0500
Subject: FAmsi scholarship 2007, Daneels, La joya,
 Mno earthern architecture
Message-ID: <FRI.25.APR.2008.183020.0500.CHUCKERT@UV.MX>




-----Original Message-----
From: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org on behalf of nahuatl-request at lists.famsi.org
Sent: Sat 4/19/2008 12:00 PM
To: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
Subject: Nahuatl Digest, Vol 85, Issue 2
 
Send Nahuatl mailing list submissions to
	nahuatl at lists.famsi.org

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When replying, please change the Subject line of your email to match
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Today's Topics:

   1. Research/Informes--Caucel, La Joya, San Miguel Acocotla,	El
      Zotz, La Sufricaya, Jalisco, Oaxaca, Chichen Itza, Naranjo,
      Montana de Guerrero, Parangaricutiro (sylvia at famsi.org)
   2. Power and Politics in the Late Aztec Period, Wash. DC
      (John F. Schwaller)


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Message: 1
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 14:23:45 -0400
From: <sylvia at famsi.org>
Subject: [Nahuat-l] Research/Informes--Caucel, La Joya, San Miguel
	Acocotla,	El Zotz, La Sufricaya, Jalisco, Oaxaca, Chichen Itza,
	Naranjo,	Montana de Guerrero, Parangaricutiro
To: <nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>
Message-ID: <001e01c8a181$576b44c0$2801a8c0 at sylvia>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
	reply-type=original

Hello Mesoamericanists,

New grantee final reports published this month at FAMSI website:

Monumental Earthen Architecture at La Joya, Veracruz, Mexico (2007)
by Annick J.E. Daneels.
http://www.famsi.org/reports/07021/index.html

Proyectos Costa Maya and Ciudad Caucel: Archaeological Survey
of Northwestern Yucatan: Ceramic and Lithic Analysis (2007)
by Anthony P. Andrews and Fernando Robles Castellanos.
http://www.famsi.org/reports/07034/index.html

Historical Archaeology and Indigenous Identity at the Ex-Hacienda
San Miguel Acocotla, Atlixco, Puebla, Mexico (2006)
by Elizabeth Terese Newman and Harold Juli.
http://www.famsi.org/reports/06010/index.html

Satellite Survey of El Zotz, Guatemala (2007)
by Zachary Nelson.
http://www.famsi.org/reports/07055/index.html


Grantee reports translated from Spanish to English:

Archaeological Research in the Holmul Region, Peten, Guatemala (2004)
by Francisco Estrada-Belli.
http://www.famsi.org/reports/03103C/index.html

The Agave Landscape and its Archaeological Context in the Tequila Volcano 
Area (2007)
by Verenice Y. Heredia Espinoza.
http://www.famsi.org/reports/07012/index.html

Toponymic Analysis of Three Lienzos from the Mixtec Lowlands, Oaxaca (2001)
by Laura Rodriguez Cano.
http://www.famsi.org/reports/00024/index.html

Chen K'u: The Ceramic of the Sacred Cenote at Chichen Itza, Study of the
Ceramic Fragments of the Explorations Conducted in the 60s (1998)
by Eduardo J. Perez de Heredia Puente.
http://www.famsi.org/reports/97061/index.html


Informes en Espanol:

El Mapa de la Periferia Suroeste de Naranjo, Peten, Guatemala (2006)
por Vilma Fialko.
http://www.famsi.org/reports/06098es/index.html

Fundacion, Asentamiento y Dinamica Politica en la Montana
de Guerrero S. XIV-XVI (2005)
por Flor Yenin Ceron Rojas.
http://www.famsi.org/reports/05052es/index.html

Las Pinturas en los Riscos de Parangaricutiro, Michoacan, Mexico (2002)
por Tricia Gabany-Guerrero.
http://www.famsi.org/reports/01088es/index.html

Saludos a todos,

Sylvia Perrine, Archivist
Foundation for the Advancement of Mesoamerican Studies, Inc.
http://www.famsi.org/index.html
http://www.famsi.org/spanish/



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Message: 2
Date: 18 Apr 2008 21:42:20 -0400
From: "John F. Schwaller" <schwallr at potsdam.edu>
Subject: [Nahuat-l] Power and Politics in the Late Aztec Period, Wash.
	DC
To: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
Message-ID:
	<1274.75.221.37.244.1208569340.squirrel at bearmail.potsdam.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1


Power and Politics in the Late Aztec Period

A one-day symposium

Saturday, September 13, 2008

Please join the Pre-Columbian Society of Washington, D.C. as we
explore manifestations of Aztec power and politics in one of the New
World?s most powerful and complex empires.

Titles (and Abstracts Received)

1.Trade, Tribute and Markets in the Aztec Imperial World

Speaker?Dr. Frances Berdan, University of California/San Bernardino

?The Aztec empire experienced a brief but flamboyant history, lasting
only from 1428 until its conquest by the Spaniards in 1521. During
that brief time, life under Aztec rule saw haughty professional
merchants traveling long distances with their luxurious wares,
conquered city-states paying large quantities of tribute to their
conquerors, and bustling marketplaces offering virtually every
commodity available within (and beyond) the imperial boundaries. In
this setting, many luxury goods advertised political power and social
status during occasions of public display and by serving as
ceremonial offerings. This presentation explores the political and
social world of luxuries such as decorated cotton clothing, previous
stone and feather ornaments, feathered warrior costumes and cacao. It
highlights the political and social connection of these preciosities
as they moved from hand to hand in the intricate Aztec economy:
professional merchants were agents of the state as well as private
entrepreneurs, and their occasional associations sparked wars;
tribute payments symbolized subservience; and busy marketplaces were
signs of economic prosperity and political importance.?

2.Aztec Imperial Strategies from the Bottom Up: A View from the
Pictorial Histories

Speaker?Dr. Lori Diel, Texas Christian University

Abstract pending.

3.Aztec Militarism

Speaker?Dr. John Pohl, Fowler Museum of UCLA

?According to one popular image, the Aztec army was a ruthless and
efficient war machine that established an empire by convincingly
overwhelming its neighbors, sacrificing thousands to bloodthirsty
gods along the way. The reality shows that Aztec warfare was much
richer and far more complex than previously understood. The
presentation will reveal a close relationship between economic and
social matters in Aztec society, as well as the religious, by
comparing and contrasting the empire?s motivations with those of
their principal opponents, a confederacy dominated by the Eastern
Nahua, Mixtec and Zapotec peoples of southern Mexico.?

4.Architecture, Power, and Kingship at Aztec Cities outside Tenochtitlan

Speaker?Dr. Michael Smith, Arizona State University

?Most Aztec cities were founded in the twelfth century in the wake of
the Aztlan migrations. Although they were relatively small cities
compared to Tenochtitlan, their role as capitals of city-states gave
them political prominence in the central Mexican social landscape.
Kings designed and constructed the public buildings in these cities
in order to project messages about power, control, legitimacy, and
sacredness. These messages originated in both the individual
buildings (temples, ball courts, platforms, and palaces), and in
their planned layout within urban epicenters. I explore the various
levels of meaning of Aztec architecture, including sacred symbolism,
political ideology, references to the Toltec past and visual impact
on people in the urban center. The architectural and political
patterns of city-state capitals were later adopted by the Mexica
kings, who transformed Tenochtitlan into the thriving imperial
capital seen by the invading Spaniards.?


5.The Great Mountain Shrines of Tetzcotzingo and Mt. Tlaloc

Speaker?Dr. Richard Townsend, Art Institute of Chicago

?Individual leadership and initiative has ever been a determining
force in collective human endeavors. The formation of the Aztec
empire is rich in examples of dynamic rulers who creatively developed
unifying projects during the 15th century. This illustrated lecture
will review the design and functions of major ritual centers upon Mt.
Tetzcotzingo and Mt. Tlaloc, symbolically claiming the land and the
memory of those who were there long before, while uniting fractious
domains in shared ritual to ensure annual rains, the fertility of the
soil, the abundance of crops, and the prosperity of the community
from year to year.?

6.Monuments, Omens, and Historical Thought: the Transition from
Ahuitzotl to Motecuhzoma II.

Speaker?Dr. Emily Umberger, Arizona State University

Abstract pending.





-- 
John F. Schwaller
President,
SUNY Potsdam
44 Pierrepont Ave.
Potsdam, NY  13676
schwallr at potsdam.edu




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From chuckert at uv.mx  Fri Apr 25 23:32:11 2008
From: chuckert at uv.mx (Huckert Chantal)
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 18:32:11 -0500
Subject: Aztec exhibit, Field Musuem, 2008
Message-ID: <FRI.25.APR.2008.183211.0500.CHUCKERT@UV.MX>




-----Original Message-----
From: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org on behalf of nahuatl-request at lists.famsi.org
Sent: Fri 4/18/2008 12:00 PM
To: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
Subject: Nahuatl Digest, Vol 85, Issue 1
 
Send Nahuatl mailing list submissions to
	nahuatl at lists.famsi.org

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text from previous messages.


Today's Topics:

   1. Exhibit at Field Museum (John F. Schwaller)


--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**

Message: 1
Date: 17 Apr 2008 19:22:00 -0400
From: "John F. Schwaller" <schwallr at potsdam.edu>
Subject: [Nahuat-l] Exhibit at Field Museum
To: "Nahuat-l ((messages))" <nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>
Message-ID: <4807DB98.1020802 at potsdam.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed

FIELD MUSEUM OF CHICAGO

The Aztec World
October 31, 2008?April 19, 2009


Explore the grandeur and complexity of one of the world's great  
civilizations. Within the span of 200 years, the Aztecs went from a  
nomadic group to one of the most powerful and influential societies  
ever, leaving behind a legacy that lives on today. Now, find out how  
an empire that began in the middle of a lake went on to become the  
center of the world. With hundreds of spectacular artifacts and works  
of art, assembled together for the first time, you can journey into  
the everyday lives of an ancient culture. Examine the deities,  
temples and sacrificial altars of Aztec religion. Explore the  
training, weapons and celebrations of Aztec warriors. Discover the  
privilege, possessions and treasures of Aztec rulers. And trace the  
remarkable rise and fall of The Aztec World exclusively at The Field  
Museum.

http://www.fieldmuseum.org/exhibits/aztecs_tempexhib.htm

-- 
*****************************
John F. Schwaller
President
SUNY - Potsdam
44 Pierrepont Ave.
Potsdam, NY  13676
Tel. 315-267-2100
FAX 315-267-2496



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From chuckert at uv.mx  Fri Apr 25 23:35:53 2008
From: chuckert at uv.mx (Huckert Chantal)
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 18:35:53 -0500
Subject: Nahua archivo de la nacion
Message-ID: <FRI.25.APR.2008.183553.0500.CHUCKERT@UV.MX>




-----Original Message-----
From: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org on behalf of nahuatl-request at lists.famsi.org
Sent: Mon 2/18/2008 12:00 PM
To: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
Subject: Nahuatl Digest, Vol 77, Issue 1
 
Send Nahuatl mailing list submissions to
	nahuatl at lists.famsi.org

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	http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
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Today's Topics:

   1. Documentos en nahuatl. (Ignacio Silva)


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Message: 1
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2008 16:28:51 -0600
From: "Ignacio Silva" <silva171270 at prodigy.net.mx>
Subject: [Nahuat-l] Documentos en nahuatl.
To: <nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>
Message-ID: <001201c871b4$794e84a0$4001a8c0 at gateway.2wire.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Listeros,

por este medio les envio la siguiente informacion:

Tengo en mis manos un CD que combina una base de datos con imagenes de documentos escritos en lengua nahuatl del Archivo General de la Nacion.

Esta base de datos tiene: la descripcion del documento, su ubicacion topografica, su identificacion en el fondo documental (todos los documentos son del fondo Tierras), el a?o al que pertenece el documento, y en caso de haber una pictografia, esto se combina con la imagen, la cual aparece en pantalla al mismo tiempo que la descripcion del documento.

La cantidad total de documentos en nahuatl (digitalizados en resolucion de 300 dpi) es de mas de seiscientas imagenes.

Asimismo tiene un motor de busqueda que permite localizar un documentos por a?o de elaboracion, por lugar donde fue elaborado y por el volumen al que pertenece.

Yo tengo los derechos del CD y estoy vendiendo copias del mismo a quien resulte interesado en adquirirlo. El costo del CD, acompa?ado de una caratula y del catalogo ademas de una breve presentaci?n del trabajo de digitalizacion de los documentos es de $700 dolares.

Quien este interesado en adquirir una copia, contacteme por este medio para arreglar un contrato.

Ignacio Silva.
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From chuckert at uv.mx  Fri Apr 25 23:46:45 2008
From: chuckert at uv.mx (Huckert Chantal)
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 18:46:45 -0500
Subject: Instituto de lenguas indigenas, web site, publication
Message-ID: <FRI.25.APR.2008.184645.0500.CHUCKERT@UV.MX>




-----Original Message-----
From: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org on behalf of nahuatl-request at lists.famsi.org
Sent: Mon 3/10/2008 11:00 AM
To: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
Subject: Nahuatl Digest, Vol 80, Issue 1
 
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Today's Topics:

   1. Libro: Lectura del nahauatl (David Wright)


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Message: 1
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 09:55:18 -0600
From: "David Wright" <dcwright at prodigy.net.mx>
Subject: [Nahuat-l] Libro: Lectura del nahauatl
To: "Nahuat-l \(messages\)" <nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>
Message-ID:
	<!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFSuI922EoRPiKSCadztChvCgAAAEAAAAM5+PxGAiw1NhnBl6uTvOVoBAAAAAA==@prodigy.net.mx>
	
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Parece que el servidor de FAMSI no puede transmitir los caracteres
extendidos que produce un teclado en castellano, por lo que estoy reenviando
mi mensaje anterior, purgado de letras vocales con acentos y enes con
tildes.
 
****************************************************************************
*****
 
Estimados listeros nahuatlatos:
 
El lunes 10 se va a presentar mi gramatica nahuatl en Guanajuato, segun
pueden leer en la invitacion que aparecio en la lista H-Mexico, puesto en
Nahuat-l recientemente por nuestro colega John Schwaller. A continuacion se
presentan los datos completos:
 
David Charles Wright Carr, Lectura del nahuatl, fundamentos para la
traduccion de los textos en nahuatl del periodo Novohispano temprano,
Mexico, Instituto Nacional de Lenguas Indigenas, 2007, 273 pp.
 
Se trata de un libro de texto que he elaborado para la ensenanza del nahuatl
colonial a alumnos que hablen el castellano como lengua materna y quienes
desean aprender a hacer traducciones originales de las fuentes manuscritas e
impresas del periodo 1521-1650. El metodo que se desarrolla en este libro es
bastante sencillo. El analisis se hace por trozos cortos, frase por frase,
con los siguientes pasos (que no son necesariamente consecutivos):

 

- una transcripcion paleografica del texto que se piensa traducir,
respetando la ortografia, abreviaturas y puntacion del texto original;

- una version modernizada, usando nuestra ortografia "tradicional fonemica",
restituyendo los saltillos (con la letras "h") y las vocales largas (con
rayitas horizontales arriba de las letras);

- un analisis morfemico, separando cada palabra en sus partes constitutivas
y senalando los cambios fonologicos que hayan experimentado los morfemas;

- la identificacion gramatical de cada morfema, con traducciones de todas
las raices;

- una traduccion libre, entre comillas, buscando comunicar la idea en
castellano, de una manera natural, sin alejarse de lo que expresa el texto
en nahuatl.
 
Si alguien desea adquirir ejemplares, puede ponerse en contacto con el
Instituto Nacional de Lenguas Indigenas (INALI). En su sitio web hay una
pagina con sus publicaciones (todavia no ponen ahi este libro), incluyendo
los datos de contacto:
 
http://www.inali.gob.mx/ind-publicaciones.html
 
Saludos cordiales,
 
David Wright
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From chuckert at uv.mx  Sat Apr 26 00:00:13 2008
From: chuckert at uv.mx (Huckert Chantal)
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 19:00:13 -0500
Subject: FAMSI scholarship 2007, Daneels, La joya,
 Mno earthern architecture
Message-ID: <FRI.25.APR.2008.190013.0500.CHUCKERT@UV.MX>




-----Original Message-----
From: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org on behalf of nahuatl-request at lists.famsi.org
Sent: Fri 4/25/2008 6:32 PM
To: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
Subject: Nahuatl Digest, Vol 86, Issue 5
 
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Today's Topics:

   1. FAmsi scholarship 2007, Daneels, La joya,	Mno earthern
      architecture (Huckert Chantal)
   2. Aztec exhibit, Field Musuem, 2008 (Huckert Chantal)


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Message: 1
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 18:30:20 -0500
From: "Huckert Chantal" <chuckert at uv.mx>
Subject: [Nahuat-l] FAmsi scholarship 2007, Daneels, La joya,	Mno
	earthern architecture
To: <nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>, "Huckert Chantal" <chuckert at uv.mx>
Message-ID:
	<A657C39260476E41932F88735E8CECD902588EC0 at exxaluv02.xalapa.intra.uv.mx>
	
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-----Original Message-----
From: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org on behalf of nahuatl-request at lists.famsi.org
Sent: Sat 4/19/2008 12:00 PM
To: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
Subject: Nahuatl Digest, Vol 85, Issue 2
 
Send Nahuatl mailing list submissions to
	nahuatl at lists.famsi.org

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	http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
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When replying, please change the Subject line of your email to match
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text from previous messages.


Today's Topics:

   1. Research/Informes--Caucel, La Joya, San Miguel Acocotla,	El
      Zotz, La Sufricaya, Jalisco, Oaxaca, Chichen Itza, Naranjo,
      Montana de Guerrero, Parangaricutiro (sylvia at famsi.org)
   2. Power and Politics in the Late Aztec Period, Wash. DC
      (John F. Schwaller)


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Message: 1
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 14:23:45 -0400
From: <sylvia at famsi.org>
Subject: [Nahuat-l] Research/Informes--Caucel, La Joya, San Miguel
	Acocotla,	El Zotz, La Sufricaya, Jalisco, Oaxaca, Chichen Itza,
	Naranjo,	Montana de Guerrero, Parangaricutiro
To: <nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>
Message-ID: <001e01c8a181$576b44c0$2801a8c0 at sylvia>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
	reply-type=original

Hello Mesoamericanists,

New grantee final reports published this month at FAMSI website:

Monumental Earthen Architecture at La Joya, Veracruz, Mexico (2007)
by Annick J.E. Daneels.
http://www.famsi.org/reports/07021/index.html

Proyectos Costa Maya and Ciudad Caucel: Archaeological Survey
of Northwestern Yucatan: Ceramic and Lithic Analysis (2007)
by Anthony P. Andrews and Fernando Robles Castellanos.
http://www.famsi.org/reports/07034/index.html

Historical Archaeology and Indigenous Identity at the Ex-Hacienda
San Miguel Acocotla, Atlixco, Puebla, Mexico (2006)
by Elizabeth Terese Newman and Harold Juli.
http://www.famsi.org/reports/06010/index.html

Satellite Survey of El Zotz, Guatemala (2007)
by Zachary Nelson.
http://www.famsi.org/reports/07055/index.html


Grantee reports translated from Spanish to English:

Archaeological Research in the Holmul Region, Peten, Guatemala (2004)
by Francisco Estrada-Belli.
http://www.famsi.org/reports/03103C/index.html

The Agave Landscape and its Archaeological Context in the Tequila Volcano 
Area (2007)
by Verenice Y. Heredia Espinoza.
http://www.famsi.org/reports/07012/index.html

Toponymic Analysis of Three Lienzos from the Mixtec Lowlands, Oaxaca (2001)
by Laura Rodriguez Cano.
http://www.famsi.org/reports/00024/index.html

Chen K'u: The Ceramic of the Sacred Cenote at Chichen Itza, Study of the
Ceramic Fragments of the Explorations Conducted in the 60s (1998)
by Eduardo J. Perez de Heredia Puente.
http://www.famsi.org/reports/97061/index.html


Informes en Espanol:

El Mapa de la Periferia Suroeste de Naranjo, Peten, Guatemala (2006)
por Vilma Fialko.
http://www.famsi.org/reports/06098es/index.html

Fundacion, Asentamiento y Dinamica Politica en la Montana
de Guerrero S. XIV-XVI (2005)
por Flor Yenin Ceron Rojas.
http://www.famsi.org/reports/05052es/index.html

Las Pinturas en los Riscos de Parangaricutiro, Michoacan, Mexico (2002)
por Tricia Gabany-Guerrero.
http://www.famsi.org/reports/01088es/index.html

Saludos a todos,

Sylvia Perrine, Archivist
Foundation for the Advancement of Mesoamerican Studies, Inc.
http://www.famsi.org/index.html
http://www.famsi.org/spanish/



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Message: 2
Date: 18 Apr 2008 21:42:20 -0400
From: "John F. Schwaller" <schwallr at potsdam.edu>
Subject: [Nahuat-l] Power and Politics in the Late Aztec Period, Wash.
	DC
To: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
Message-ID:
	<1274.75.221.37.244.1208569340.squirrel at bearmail.potsdam.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1


Power and Politics in the Late Aztec Period

A one-day symposium

Saturday, September 13, 2008

Please join the Pre-Columbian Society of Washington, D.C. as we
explore manifestations of Aztec power and politics in one of the New
World?s most powerful and complex empires.

Titles (and Abstracts Received)

1.Trade, Tribute and Markets in the Aztec Imperial World

Speaker?Dr. Frances Berdan, University of California/San Bernardino

?The Aztec empire experienced a brief but flamboyant history, lasting
only from 1428 until its conquest by the Spaniards in 1521. During
that brief time, life under Aztec rule saw haughty professional
merchants traveling long distances with their luxurious wares,
conquered city-states paying large quantities of tribute to their
conquerors, and bustling marketplaces offering virtually every
commodity available within (and beyond) the imperial boundaries. In
this setting, many luxury goods advertised political power and social
status during occasions of public display and by serving as
ceremonial offerings. This presentation explores the political and
social world of luxuries such as decorated cotton clothing, previous
stone and feather ornaments, feathered warrior costumes and cacao. It
highlights the political and social connection of these preciosities
as they moved from hand to hand in the intricate Aztec economy:
professional merchants were agents of the state as well as private
entrepreneurs, and their occasional associations sparked wars;
tribute payments symbolized subservience; and busy marketplaces were
signs of economic prosperity and political importance.?

2.Aztec Imperial Strategies from the Bottom Up: A View from the
Pictorial Histories

Speaker?Dr. Lori Diel, Texas Christian University

Abstract pending.

3.Aztec Militarism

Speaker?Dr. John Pohl, Fowler Museum of UCLA

?According to one popular image, the Aztec army was a ruthless and
efficient war machine that established an empire by convincingly
overwhelming its neighbors, sacrificing thousands to bloodthirsty
gods along the way. The reality shows that Aztec warfare was much
richer and far more complex than previously understood. The
presentation will reveal a close relationship between economic and
social matters in Aztec society, as well as the religious, by
comparing and contrasting the empire?s motivations with those of
their principal opponents, a confederacy dominated by the Eastern
Nahua, Mixtec and Zapotec peoples of southern Mexico.?

4.Architecture, Power, and Kingship at Aztec Cities outside Tenochtitlan

Speaker?Dr. Michael Smith, Arizona State University

?Most Aztec cities were founded in the twelfth century in the wake of
the Aztlan migrations. Although they were relatively small cities
compared to Tenochtitlan, their role as capitals of city-states gave
them political prominence in the central Mexican social landscape.
Kings designed and constructed the public buildings in these cities
in order to project messages about power, control, legitimacy, and
sacredness. These messages originated in both the individual
buildings (temples, ball courts, platforms, and palaces), and in
their planned layout within urban epicenters. I explore the various
levels of meaning of Aztec architecture, including sacred symbolism,
political ideology, references to the Toltec past and visual impact
on people in the urban center. The architectural and political
patterns of city-state capitals were later adopted by the Mexica
kings, who transformed Tenochtitlan into the thriving imperial
capital seen by the invading Spaniards.?


5.The Great Mountain Shrines of Tetzcotzingo and Mt. Tlaloc

Speaker?Dr. Richard Townsend, Art Institute of Chicago

?Individual leadership and initiative has ever been a determining
force in collective human endeavors. The formation of the Aztec
empire is rich in examples of dynamic rulers who creatively developed
unifying projects during the 15th century. This illustrated lecture
will review the design and functions of major ritual centers upon Mt.
Tetzcotzingo and Mt. Tlaloc, symbolically claiming the land and the
memory of those who were there long before, while uniting fractious
domains in shared ritual to ensure annual rains, the fertility of the
soil, the abundance of crops, and the prosperity of the community
from year to year.?

6.Monuments, Omens, and Historical Thought: the Transition from
Ahuitzotl to Motecuhzoma II.

Speaker?Dr. Emily Umberger, Arizona State University

Abstract pending.





-- 
John F. Schwaller
President,
SUNY Potsdam
44 Pierrepont Ave.
Potsdam, NY  13676
schwallr at potsdam.edu




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Message: 2
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 18:32:11 -0500
From: "Huckert Chantal" <chuckert at uv.mx>
Subject: [Nahuat-l] Aztec exhibit, Field Musuem, 2008
To: <nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>, "Huckert Chantal" <chuckert at uv.mx>
Message-ID:
	<A657C39260476E41932F88735E8CECD902588EC1 at exxaluv02.xalapa.intra.uv.mx>
	
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-----Original Message-----
From: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org on behalf of nahuatl-request at lists.famsi.org
Sent: Fri 4/18/2008 12:00 PM
To: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
Subject: Nahuatl Digest, Vol 85, Issue 1
 
Send Nahuatl mailing list submissions to
	nahuatl at lists.famsi.org

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When replying, please change the Subject line of your email to match
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Today's Topics:

   1. Exhibit at Field Museum (John F. Schwaller)


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Message: 1
Date: 17 Apr 2008 19:22:00 -0400
From: "John F. Schwaller" <schwallr at potsdam.edu>
Subject: [Nahuat-l] Exhibit at Field Museum
To: "Nahuat-l ((messages))" <nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>
Message-ID: <4807DB98.1020802 at potsdam.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed

FIELD MUSEUM OF CHICAGO

The Aztec World
October 31, 2008?April 19, 2009


Explore the grandeur and complexity of one of the world's great  
civilizations. Within the span of 200 years, the Aztecs went from a  
nomadic group to one of the most powerful and influential societies  
ever, leaving behind a legacy that lives on today. Now, find out how  
an empire that began in the middle of a lake went on to become the  
center of the world. With hundreds of spectacular artifacts and works  
of art, assembled together for the first time, you can journey into  
the everyday lives of an ancient culture. Examine the deities,  
temples and sacrificial altars of Aztec religion. Explore the  
training, weapons and celebrations of Aztec warriors. Discover the  
privilege, possessions and treasures of Aztec rulers. And trace the  
remarkable rise and fall of The Aztec World exclusively at The Field  
Museum.

http://www.fieldmuseum.org/exhibits/aztecs_tempexhib.htm

-- 
*****************************
John F. Schwaller
President
SUNY - Potsdam
44 Pierrepont Ave.
Potsdam, NY  13676
Tel. 315-267-2100
FAX 315-267-2496



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From ced22 at leicester.ac.uk  Fri Apr 25 18:18:09 2008
From: ced22 at leicester.ac.uk (Dodds, Dr C.E.)
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 19:18:09 +0100
Subject: dark/light skin color differences in pre- and post-conquest
 Mexico
In-Reply-To: <300C0A33-A9D9-40BA-A8C8-91F657376EC4@ipinc.net>
Message-ID: <FRI.25.APR.2008.191809.0100.CED22@LEICESTER.AC.UK>

Further to Kier's email, Diaz also talks about the hair being matted. He says 'Their hair was very long and so tangled that it could not have been parted unless they had cut it first. Moreover, it was all clotted with the blood which oozed from their ears, for they had offered them as a sacrifice that day.' (p.173 in the Penguin edition) I have never seen any mention of the black of the priests being related to blood on the skin, however. And if I remember rightly there are a number of mentions of them specifically being 'painted' black. (With soot I think?) It is true that blood goes blackish when dry and as the priests didn't wash then it's not impossible. I don't remember ever having seen a reference to this, however.

Caroline
--------------
Dr. Caroline Dodds
Lecturer in Early Modern History
School of Historical Studies
University of Leicester
University Road
Leicester
LE1 7RH

email: ced22 at le.ac.uk
http://www.le.ac.uk/history/people/ced22.html

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From rude at religion.ucsb.edu  Sat Apr 26 14:34:34 2008
From: rude at religion.ucsb.edu (Rudiger V. Busto)
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 07:34:34 -0700
Subject: dark/light skin color differences in pre- and post-conquest
 Mexico
In-Reply-To: <F0C0BFC5AF6F71479C404955AE1C9C0C0117AE9A3938@EXC-MBX1.cfs.le.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <SAT.26.APR.2008.073434.0700.RUDE@RELIGION.UCSB.EDU>

I don't have the text at hand, but following Caroline's note, Diaz notes 
that when Cortes orders the destruction of the idols at Cempoala (Veracruz) 
and the conversion of the Cempoalans, he cuts the long hair (matted?) of 
the priests and then forces them to wear white tunics instead of their 
apparently black ones.  As a tribute paying people to the Mexica, perhaps 
the Cempoalans adopted/were forced to "blacken" their priests == here by 
use of a tunic.  Or, of course, maybe "black" priests are a mesoamerican 
convention?

Rudy Busto
Religious Studies
UC-Santa Barbara

--On Friday, April 25, 2008 7:18 PM +0100 "Dodds, Dr C.E." 
<ced22 at leicester.ac.uk> wrote:

> Further to Kier's email, Diaz also talks about the hair being matted. He
> says 'Their hair was very long and so tangled that it could not have been
> parted unless they had cut it first. Moreover, it was all clotted with
> the blood which oozed from their ears, for they had offered them as a
> sacrifice that day.' (p.173 in the Penguin edition) I have never seen any
> mention of the black of the priests being related to blood on the skin,
> however. And if I remember rightly there are a number of mentions of them
> specifically being 'painted' black. (With soot I think?) It is true that
> blood goes blackish when dry and as the priests didn't wash then it's not
> impossible. I don't remember ever having seen a reference to this,
> however.
>
> Caroline
> --------------
> Dr. Caroline Dodds
> Lecturer in Early Modern History
> School of Historical Studies
> University of Leicester
> University Road
> Leicester
> LE1 7RH
>
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From oudyk at hotmail.com  Sat Apr 26 18:52:36 2008
From: oudyk at hotmail.com (Michel Oudijk)
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 18:52:36 +0000
Subject: dark/light skin color differences in pre- and post-conquest
 Mexico
In-Reply-To: <975422.28125.qm@web51709.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <SAT.26.APR.2008.185236.0000.OUDYK@HOTMAIL.COM>


It seems to me that the original message referred to skin color and not so much to painted skin like that of the priests. A good example of differences in skin color are in the Lienzo de Quauhquechollan where the Quauhquecholtecas depict themselves white while their Mayan enemies are depicted with darker skin. There is another scene just before arriving in Tehuantepec where they fight against very dark skinned warriors. No clue as to who these people are. For an excellent commentary see Florine Asselbergs' book 'Conquered Conquistadores' or her article in 'Mesoam?rica', No. 44. Other instances of dark skin are references to dead people. For example in the Codex Dehesa or in Matr?cula de Huexotzinco.
 
Hope this helps,
 
Michel> Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 06:37:25 -0700> From: mijobas at yahoo.com> To: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org> Subject: [Nahuat-l] dark/light skin color differences in pre- and post-conquest Mexico> > Dear Listeros,> > Does anyone know of or have any references to> differences of skin colors within Mexico, both in the> pre-Conquest and immediate post-Conquest eras? > > I am working on a paper and it involves an image from> the Florentine Codex (I've attached it to this email> but am not sure whether it will make it through). It> is on 245 verso of Volume 2 of the Florentine Codex> and depicts people stoking the chest cavity of a> sacrificial victim with wood, in preparation for a> fire. The victim is light-skinned while the others are> dark skinned.> > Are there any references to darker skinned people that> anyone knows of in any pre-Conquest context? This> illustration, of course, pre-dates casta paintings but> does anyone have any info or references on dark vs> light skin in the immediate post-Conquest period?> > Please feel free to email me directly and thanks in> advance,> > Best,> > Michael Stevenson> > > ____________________________________________________________________________________> Be a better friend, newshound, and > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
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From david_becraft at hotmail.com  Wed Apr 30 07:18:01 2008
From: david_becraft at hotmail.com (David Becraft)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 00:18:01 -0700
Subject: dark/light skin color differences in pre- and post-conquest
 Mexico
In-Reply-To: <F0C0BFC5AF6F71479C404955AE1C9C0C0117AE9A3938@EXC-MBX1.cfs.le.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <WED.30.APR.2008.001801.0700.DAVIDBECRAFT@HOTMAIL.COM>

Hello Listeros,

Didn't Priests commonly and ritually bathe twice a day?  My understanding is that bathing was not only a sanitary practice, it was also a ritual one.  Also, Tenoch is depicted as a very dark man in contrast to the other founders of Mexico-Tenochtitlan; is there any evidence that Tenoch was a Priest?  I don't recall the source, so I apologize beforehand, but I remember that possibly status was given to darker skinned people.

Pancho

----------------------------------------
> From: ced22 at leicester.ac.uk
> To: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 19:18:09 +0100
> Subject: Re: [Nahuat-l] dark/light skin color differences in pre-	and	post-conquest Mexico
> 
> Further to Kier's email, Diaz also talks about the hair being matted. He says 'Their hair was very long and so tangled that it could not have been parted unless they had cut it first. Moreover, it was all clotted with the blood which oozed from their ears, for they had offered them as a sacrifice that day.' (p.173 in the Penguin edition) I have never seen any mention of the black of the priests being related to blood on the skin, however. And if I remember rightly there are a number of mentions of them specifically being 'painted' black. (With soot I think?) It is true that blood goes blackish when dry and as the priests didn't wash then it's not impossible. I don't remember ever having seen a reference to this, however.
> 
> Caroline
> --------------
> Dr. Caroline Dodds
> Lecturer in Early Modern History
> School of Historical Studies
> University of Leicester
> University Road
> Leicester
> LE1 7RH
> 
> email: ced22 at le.ac.uk
> http://www.le.ac.uk/history/people/ced22.html
> 
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From ced22 at leicester.ac.uk  Wed Apr 30 11:58:04 2008
From: ced22 at leicester.ac.uk (Dodds, Dr C.E.)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 12:58:04 +0100
Subject: dark/light skin color differences in pre- and post-conquest
 Mexico
In-Reply-To: <BLU138-W37611654EC7086D7069628BD80@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <WED.30.APR.2008.125804.0100.CED22@LEICESTER.AC.UK>

Dear Listeros,

In response to Pancho's email, bathing was certainly both a sanitary and ritual activity, but it was not practised by Mexica priests. I wonder if you are thinking of the fact that it is believed that lay people (from the tlatoani downwards) liked to bathe twice a day. I don't know whether ritual bathing was common amongst priests in other indigenous Mexican cultures, but I think I am right in saying (though would welcome hearing about any source to the contrary) that bathing was prohibited amongst Mexica priests. Sacrificial victims were frequently bathed as part of the ritual, however.

And, yes, Tenoch is usually regarded as a priest or priest-king. Coester posits that he was 'priest and chief of a tribe representing the theocratic element of the population' (as opposed to Mexitli who represented the warriors). If true, that would link him fairly closely to the priestly side.(A. Coester, 'Mexico or Mejico?', Hispania, 8.2 (1925), p.113) This is contradicted by Caso and Wicke, however, who say he was 'only a military chief'. (A. Caso and C.R. Wicke, 'Land Tenure Amongst the Ancient Mexicans', American Anthropologist, 65.4 (1963), p.865) There's clearly some controversy about this, probably because we don't really know. Ingham collated the claims of Torquemada, Duran, Tezozomoc and the Codex Mendoza about the founders and came to the conclusion that Tenoch was the chief or King and Meci was the high priests, so it clearly isn't a conclusive link. (J.M. Ingham, 'Time and Space in Ancient Mexico', Man, 6.4 (1971), p.621) Tenoch is certainly usually described a!
 s a priest, however, and it may be that the semi-sacred status of rulers in early Mexico makes the distinction unhelpful in some contexts.

Yours,
Caroline

------
Dr Caroline Dodds
Lecturer in Early Modern History
School of Historical Studies
University of Leicester
University Road
Leicester
LE1 7RH

http://www.le.ac.uk/hi/people/ced22.html




-----Original Message-----
From: David Becraft [mailto:david_becraft at hotmail.com]
Sent: 30 April 2008 08:18
To: Dodds, Dr C.E.; nahuatl at lists.famsi.org ((messages))
Subject: RE: [Nahuat-l] dark/light skin color differences in pre- and post-conquest Mexico





Hello Listeros,

Didn't Priests commonly and ritually bathe twice a day?  My understanding is that bathing was not only a sanitary practice, it was also a ritual one.  Also, Tenoch is depicted as a very dark man in contrast to the other founders of Mexico-Tenochtitlan; is there any evidence that Tenoch was a Priest?  I don't recall the source, so I apologize beforehand, but I remember that possibly status was given to darker skinned people.

Pancho

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From laura.qorri at FONDASOL.FR  Sat Apr 26 20:36:36 2008
From: laura.qorri at FONDASOL.FR (Fidelia Gay)
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 03:36:36 +0700
Subject: Win the reputation of greatest lover
Message-ID: <SUN.27.APR.2008.033636.0700.LAURA.QORRI@FONDASOL.FR>

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