motlaxcaloa etc.

[Campbell, R. Joe]

Hey Gordon,

   I really like your "...ify" glossing!  Would you mind if I use it in 
the future?

   Your suggestion would have no problem if the verb "tlaxcaloa" were 
transitive.  16th century Nahuatl already has reflexives used as 
passives or impersonalizing elements:

   quipaca        he washes it
   mopaca         it is washed

   quichihua      he makes it
   mochihua       it is produced, it occurs (speaking of plants)

   But the problem is in the use of an object prefix on an intransitive verb.
It's a little more clear with "basic" intransitive verbs:

   *qui-choca
   *nech-nemi
   *qui-paqui

...and it's the same if the object is reflexive:

  *mo-huetzca
  *mo-pozoni
  *mo-huetzi

   BUT it could be suggested that "tlaxcaloa" is a *transitive* verb.  
Of course, it would have to be in *addition* to its role as an 
intransitive verb because of "nitlaxcaloa, nitamaloa, nayacachoa, etc." 
(which have no objects).

   Considering this possibility, we would assume that transitive 
"tlaxcaloa" is formed in two stages, since that's the way -oa 
transitives are (tlilli > tlilihui > tliloa; acalli > acalihui > 
acaloa, etc.).  The first stage would be "tlaxcalihui", which would 
mean 'it becomes like a tortilla' and the second stage would yield 
"nictlaxcaloa", meaning 'I cause it to become like a tortilla'.  But 
there aren't any projective verbs which are formed from "tlaxcalli, 
tamalli, ayacachtli, etc."

   Faced with "motlaxcaloa", one might propose that, for some reason, 
verbs of this sort occur in the reflexive form.  Some people might be 
worried because we see no cases of the posited intervening forms like 
"tlaxcalihui, tamalihui, ayacachihui, etc." (not even a "tlaxcaliuhqui, 
tamaliuhqui, ayacachiuhqui, etc."), but I think there is a strong 
argument non-occurrent intervening forms.
What would worry me would be the semantic interpretation of the 
resulting reflexive verbs.  Despite the fact that verbs like 
intransitive "tlaxcaloa" would be interpreted like "quiquizoa", 'he 
trumpetifies' and "camanaloa", 'he jokifies', reflexive "motlaxcaloa" 
would seem to need to be interpreted as 'it is caused to become like a 
tortilla' (because of its derivational path).

   I don't feel comfortable with the glossing on Nahuatl words, but you 
probably have a better sense of their difference in meaning than I can 
put into words.

   I thought your calling attention to verbs in English that are both 
transitive and intransitive was a good idea.  Nahuatl certainly has 
verbs like that (e.g., "chipahua" and "ehua") and I'll keep that in 
mind.

Thanks for help in thinking and all the best,

Joe


Quoting Gordon Whittaker <gwhitta at gwdg.de>:

> Hi Joe,
>
> I'm not quite sure that I fully understand the problem, so perhaps I'm
> about to put my foot in my mouth here.
>
> Aren't the examples you give for denominal intransitives in -oa, such as
>
> nitlaxcaloa 'I make tortillas' (lit. 'I tortillify' or the like)
>
> just the intransitive counterparts of reflexives (with transitive -oa) like
>
> motlaxcaloa(h) 'tortillas are made' (lit. 'they tortillify themselves')?
>
> The other categories of -oa you mention don't seem involved. Incidentally,
> English verbs in -ify also have a double status, some more often
> transitive (rectify), others more often intransitive (e.g. solidify).
>
> Well, I'm probably completely off the mark, so I'm looking forward to
> reading what our colleagues have to say on the matter.
>
> Best wishes,
> Gordon
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Gordon Whittaker
> Professor
> Linguistische Anthropologie und Altamerikanistik
> Seminar fuer Romanische Philologie
> Universitaet Goettingen
> Humboldtallee 19
> 37073 Goettingen
> Germany
> tel./fax (priv.): ++49-5594-89333
> tel. (office): ++49-551-394188
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>



_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl