dark/light skin color differences in pre- and post-conquest Mexico

Thu May 1 14:11:19 UTC 2008

Hi, all.
That text is from the Codex Magliabechiano.  Attached are the image &  
original text.
Best,
Molly Bassett

Molly Bassett
Ph.D. Candidate, Religious Studies
University of California, Santa Barbara
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On May 1, 2008, at 1:20 AM, David Becraft wrote:

>
>
>
>
> Dear Listeros,
>
> In response to Carolines e-mail I ran across a website that has a  
> curious quote.  I cannot verify the source (sorry) but if anybody  
> knows or has seen this quote, maybe they can produce the source.   
> The website is:
>
> http://cyberbohemia.com/Pages/originoftem.htm
>
> What I find interesting in this quote is that sick people stained  
> their skin black before partaking in the temescal.
>
>
> """In the 16th century, a Spanish priest expressed his contempt for  
> the native bath in this note: "This is a picture of the baths of the  
> Indians which they call 'temazcalli.' At the door is an Indian who  
> was the mediator for illnesses. When a sick person took a bath he  
> offered incense, which they term copal, to his idol and stained his  
> skin black in veneration to the idol Tezcatlipoca. Many Indians, men  
> and women, stark naked, took thesebaths and committed nasty and vile  
> sins within.""""
>
>
>
> Just some food for thought.
>
>
> Pancho
>
> ----------------------------------------
>> From: ced22 at leicester.ac.uk
>> To: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 12:58:04 +0100
>> Subject: Re: [Nahuat-l] dark/light skin color differences in	pre-	 
>> and	post-conquest Mexico
>>
>> Dear Listeros,
>>
>> In response to Pancho's email, bathing was certainly both a  
>> sanitary and ritual activity, but it was not practised by Mexica  
>> priests. I wonder if you are thinking of the fact that it is  
>> believed that lay people (from the tlatoani downwards) liked to  
>> bathe twice a day. I don't know whether ritual bathing was common  
>> amongst priests in other indigenous Mexican cultures, but I think I  
>> am right in saying (though would welcome hearing about any source  
>> to the contrary) that bathing was prohibited amongst Mexica  
>> priests. Sacrificial victims were frequently bathed as part of the  
>> ritual, however.
>>
>> And, yes, Tenoch is usually regarded as a priest or priest-king.  
>> Coester posits that he was 'priest and chief of a tribe  
>> representing the theocratic element of the population' (as opposed  
>> to Mexitli who represented the warriors). If true, that would link  
>> him fairly closely to the priestly side.(A. Coester, 'Mexico or  
>> Mejico?', Hispania, 8.2 (1925), p.113) This is contradicted by Caso  
>> and Wicke, however, who say he was 'only a military chief'. (A.  
>> Caso and C.R. Wicke, 'Land Tenure Amongst the Ancient Mexicans',  
>> American Anthropologist, 65.4 (1963), p.865) There's clearly some  
>> controversy about this, probably because we don't really know.  
>> Ingham collated the claims of Torquemada, Duran, Tezozomoc and the  
>> Codex Mendoza about the founders and came to the conclusion that  
>> Tenoch was the chief or King and Meci was the high priests, so it  
>> clearly isn't a conclusive link. (J.M. Ingham, 'Time and Space in  
>> Ancient Mexico', Man, 6.4 (1971), p.621) Tenoch is certainly  
>> usually described!
>  a!
>> s a priest, however, and it may be that the semi-sacred status of  
>> rulers in early Mexico makes the distinction unhelpful in some  
>> contexts.
>>
>> Yours,
>> Caroline
>>
>> ------
>> Dr Caroline Dodds
>> Lecturer in Early Modern History
>> School of Historical Studies
>> University of Leicester
>> University Road
>> Leicester
>> LE1 7RH
>>
>> http://www.le.ac.uk/hi/people/ced22.html
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: David Becraft [mailto:david_becraft at hotmail.com]
>> Sent: 30 April 2008 08:18
>> To: Dodds, Dr C.E.; nahuatl at lists.famsi.org ((messages))
>> Subject: RE: [Nahuat-l] dark/light skin color differences in pre-  
>> and post-conquest Mexico
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hello Listeros,
>>
>> Didn't Priests commonly and ritually bathe twice a day?  My  
>> understanding is that bathing was not only a sanitary practice, it  
>> was also a ritual one.  Also, Tenoch is depicted as a very dark man  
>> in contrast to the other founders of Mexico-Tenochtitlan; is there  
>> any evidence that Tenoch was a Priest?  I don't recall the source,  
>> so I apologize beforehand, but I remember that possibly status was  
>> given to darker skinned people.
>>
>> Pancho
>>
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>
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