From micc2 at cox.net Thu Jan 1 00:06:06 2009 From: micc2 at cox.net (micc2) Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 16:06:06 -0800 Subject: request for info regarding indigenous instrument makers in Mexican colonial period Message-ID: Hello everyone HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!!! I have a request for your help. I am currently working on my dissertation entitled: /The Influence of the Danza Azteca Tradition of Central Mexico on Chicano-Mexcoehuani Identity and Sacred Space/ I am currently working on the section on how the indigenous people of Mexico circa 1521- 1700 began to manufacture European musical instruments, specifically the guitar and mandolins types. I remember reading about how the royal authorities banned the indigenous people from making musical instruments because the Spanish and Criollo instrument makers were having a hard time competing with the native manufacturers. I am exploring the evolution of today's "/conchas"; /string instruments made out of armadillo shells that are used in La Danza Azteca/Conchera. I thought I had saved that article, but now I cannot find it. Does any one know of a source I can look for? Thanks! Mario E. Aguilar www.mexicayotl.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Thu Jan 1 16:06:19 2009 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2009 11:06:19 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Re: Chicago's Field Museum In-Reply-To: <380-220081233117644593@earthlink.net> Message-ID: In this day and age it is inexcusable for a museum of such renown as the Field Museum to have crappy linguistics. It's just beyond the pale. Were this the turn of the 20th century, it would be understandable, but this sort of thing happens quite often today, especially in books, history books. A recently published and quite popular--and otherwise well written--book on an American Indian tribe comes to mind. The author, a historian, did not once consult a linguist about the native language forms used in the book--and so that aspect of the work is just sloppy and substandard. There's no excuse. It's not that hard to find a linguistic authority. Museum exhibitors need to wake up. That's all. Other than that, the exhibit does indeed look wonderful. Ok. Back to dancing on the head of a pin. Michael Quoting Jerry Offner : > If we brush aside, for the moment, the legions of linguistic angels by now > arrayed and thoroughly crowded on the head of a pin, and the more > interesting lingustic questions of museology and making non-Western > languages somewhat accessible and hopefully even interesting and engaging > to museum visitors, what is the substance of the exhibit like? > > Some images can be seen at: > > http://www.fieldmuseum.org/aztecs/ > > but are there new or very rarely seen objects? Is any of the commentary > the least bit inaccurate or otherwise controversial? How is it on the > Apocalypto scale--responsible and broad spectrum or sensationalist and > leering? Certainly, the website's tone is promising. Have they eschewed > the seemingly inevitable atmospheric flute music in favor of another theme > or approach? > > Having mounted a few exhibits myself, they are a very difficult balancing > act between sponsors, museums, museum directors, trustees and curators, > availability of material, outside marketing consultants, outside academic > consultants, exhibition preparation and design staff (often the most > inspiring, creative and unsung group), etc. etc. (It sounds difficult, but > it is great if exhausting and humbling fun). It would be a shame if all > this (admittedly lingustically-oriented) list has to offer about this > exhibit are some obscure, conflicting and ranking comments on pronunciation > guides for the English/Spanish (and other language) non-academic visitors > to the exhibit. I don't recall seeing anything on the aztlan list about > the exhibit other than the announcement of its existence. > > And backed to those crowded angels--how exactly would one have written a > pronunciation guide that would engage the public? Are there prior examples > of excellence? What about next time? And what about this time? Do the > comments offered so far encourage non-specialists to use specialists next > time or do they just further isolate all parties? > > Show us. > > Jerry Offner > > >> [Original Message] >> From: Michael McCafferty >> To: >> Date: 12/31/2008 09:49:57 AM >> Subject: Re: [Nahuat-l] Fwd: Re: Chicago's Field Museum >> >> Quoting "Robert A. Neinast" : >> >> > Michael McCafferty wrote: >> >>>> Oh, and for a final >> >>>> "tl" they had it pronounced simply as "t". >> >> >> >> It's like that in some dialects, so it's not a great offense. >> > >> > Don't forget, this exhibit was "The Aztec World," not >> > "The Modern Nahuatl Dialects World." >> >> Naturally, an exhibit of this caliber should have -tl instead of -t. >> That's agreed. >> >> > >> > Or were there dialects 500 years ago that did this? >> >> Yes. In fact, the sound written -tl derives from a proto-Uto-Aztecan >> /*t/ following /a/. It's not unreasonable to assume that some ancient >> dialects did not take that /*t/ to the sound written -tl. I don't >> believe the necessary evidence exists to corroborate that notion, >> however. >> >> Michael >> >> > >> > Bob >> > -- >> > " . . . and shun the Frumious Bandersnatch." >> > Robert A. Neinast >> > Pickerington, OH >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Nahuatl mailing list >> > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org >> > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl >> > >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Nahuatl mailing list >> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org >> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > > > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From karttu at nantucket.net Thu Jan 1 16:45:44 2009 From: karttu at nantucket.net (Frances Karttunen) Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2009 11:45:44 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Re: Chicago's Field Museum In-Reply-To: <20090101110619.g91w098lbcoksg0k@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: Agreed. For me, the single most unacceptable pronunciation guide in this exhibit's captioning is: tay-COOT-lee for 'lord, ruler' Why? Because it shows that the person responsible for putting this before the public not only does not know how the Nahuatl word is pronounced but is so arrogant that s/he hasn't made any effort to find out. It's not by any means the best that could be done to indicate an approximate pronunciation to English or Spanish speaking museum-goers. Nobody would butcher French or German or Spanish this way and get away with it. So instead of brushing off as nitpickers the people who really DO know Nahuatl, how about affording this actually very well-known language the respect of engaging someone knowledgeable to vet the captions before they go up? Fran On Jan 1, 2009, at 11:06 AM, Michael McCafferty wrote: > > > In this day and age it is inexcusable for a museum of such renown as > the Field Museum to have crappy linguistics. It's just beyond the > pale. > Were this the turn of the 20th century, it would be understandable, > but > this sort of thing happens quite often today, especially in books, > history books. A recently published and quite popular--and otherwise > well written--book on an American Indian tribe comes to mind. The > author, a historian, did not once consult a linguist about the native > language forms used in the book--and so that aspect of the work is > just > sloppy and substandard. There's no excuse. It's not that hard to > find a > linguistic authority. Museum exhibitors need to wake up. That's all. > Other than that, the exhibit does indeed look wonderful. > > Ok. Back to dancing on the head of a pin. > > Michael > > > > > Quoting Jerry Offner : > >> If we brush aside, for the moment, the legions of linguistic >> angels by now >> arrayed and thoroughly crowded on the head of a pin, and the more >> interesting lingustic questions of museology and making non-Western >> languages somewhat accessible and hopefully even interesting and >> engaging >> to museum visitors, what is the substance of the exhibit like? >> >> Some images can be seen at: >> >> http://www.fieldmuseum.org/aztecs/ >> >> but are there new or very rarely seen objects? Is any of the >> commentary >> the least bit inaccurate or otherwise controversial? How is it on >> the >> Apocalypto scale--responsible and broad spectrum or sensationalist >> and >> leering? Certainly, the website's tone is promising. Have they >> eschewed >> the seemingly inevitable atmospheric flute music in favor of >> another theme >> or approach? >> >> Having mounted a few exhibits myself, they are a very difficult >> balancing >> act between sponsors, museums, museum directors, trustees and >> curators, >> availability of material, outside marketing consultants, outside >> academic >> consultants, exhibition preparation and design staff (often the most >> inspiring, creative and unsung group), etc. etc. (It sounds >> difficult, but >> it is great if exhausting and humbling fun). It would be a shame >> if all >> this (admittedly lingustically-oriented) list has to offer about this >> exhibit are some obscure, conflicting and ranking comments on >> pronunciation >> guides for the English/Spanish (and other language) non-academic >> visitors >> to the exhibit. I don't recall seeing anything on the aztlan list >> about >> the exhibit other than the announcement of its existence. >> >> And backed to those crowded angels--how exactly would one have >> written a >> pronunciation guide that would engage the public? Are there prior >> examples >> of excellence? What about next time? And what about this time? >> Do the >> comments offered so far encourage non-specialists to use >> specialists next >> time or do they just further isolate all parties? >> >> Show us. >> >> Jerry Offner >> >> >>> [Original Message] >>> From: Michael McCafferty >>> To: >>> Date: 12/31/2008 09:49:57 AM >>> Subject: Re: [Nahuat-l] Fwd: Re: Chicago's Field Museum >>> >>> Quoting "Robert A. Neinast" : >>> >>>> Michael McCafferty wrote: >>>>>>> Oh, and for a final >>>>>>> "tl" they had it pronounced simply as "t". >>>>> >>>>> It's like that in some dialects, so it's not a great offense. >>>> >>>> Don't forget, this exhibit was "The Aztec World," not >>>> "The Modern Nahuatl Dialects World." >>> >>> Naturally, an exhibit of this caliber should have -tl instead of -t. >>> That's agreed. >>> >>>> >>>> Or were there dialects 500 years ago that did this? >>> >>> Yes. In fact, the sound written -tl derives from a proto-Uto-Aztecan >>> /*t/ following /a/. It's not unreasonable to assume that some >>> ancient >>> dialects did not take that /*t/ to the sound written -tl. I don't >>> believe the necessary evidence exists to corroborate that notion, >>> however. >>> >>> Michael >>> >>>> >>>> Bob >>>> -- >>>> " . . . and shun the Frumious Bandersnatch." >>>> Robert A. Neinast >>>> Pickerington, OH >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Nahuatl mailing list >>>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org >>>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Nahuatl mailing list >>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org >>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Nahuatl mailing list >> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org >> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx Thu Jan 1 19:38:50 2009 From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright) Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2009 13:38:50 -0600 Subject: Fwd: Re: Chicago's Field Museum Message-ID: I respectfully submit my replies to Jerry Offner's questions. > And backed to those crowded angels--how exactly would one have written a pronunciation guide that would engage the public? Accurately. > Are there prior examples of excellence? Many, from the mid-sixteenth century to the present. > What about next time? I hope they get it right. > And what about this time? They didn't get it right. It could still be corrected. > Do the comments offered so far encourage non-specialists to use specialists next time or do they just further isolate all parties? Communication is the first step; each person involved is responsible for his or her reaction. Criticism and correction are essential ingredients of the scientific method. Best wishes for the new year, David Wright -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From ixtlil at earthlink.net Thu Jan 1 18:35:03 2009 From: ixtlil at earthlink.net (Jerry Offner) Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2009 12:35:03 -0600 Subject: Constructive action following the Field Musem Aztec Exhibit Message-ID: Good. Perhaps a few more comments may come in. Accuracy is of course the goal but compaining about inaccuracy to the exclusion of everything else is feckless and self-isolating. Hence my post. There were several messages in my post: 1. Is the actual exhibition of good quality? If the linguistics is lacking, what else may be faulty? 2. Is there an existing pronunciation guide that could have been used? If not, why not? 3. Can perhaps one be constructed for "next time" at this time for use at another exhibit? It would seem a simple task. 4. How does one engage the visitors? In Chicago, with its enormous Mexican population, a good number will be Nahua speakers. This is an interesting language teaching/learning situation. This was in fact a wasted opportunity as was just pointed out by several. The exhibit was well known to be in progress for a long time. Why did the network of the curators and consultants fail to network with a linguist? Equally importantly, why did no linguist insist on getting involved? Was someone actually rebuffed in such an attempt? And as Fran Karttunen implies, why did the exhibit personnel think this could be a "do it yourself" job? What is it about NahuaAztec/archaeology/ethnohistory studies these days that created this approach? This relates to the isolation I mention in my post and its origin and probable continuance. It is an interesting problem in the sociology of knowledge. After all, language is central to understanding another culture, so why did the group of curators and consultants handle things the way they did? There is evidently a good deal of disfunction in the discipline revealed here. It also seems rather retro as the US becomes much less E! nglish monolingual. And just maybe, it was the judgement of the curators and consultants that what they did was the best they could do, and the result of an effort on their part to engage the audience as they and the consultants saw it in the most cost-effective manner. A few exhibit panels could have been dedicated to language. Were they? Nowadays, interactive displays are easy and increasingly affordable. But this takes away from the budget for object display which is what brings in the bucks--a critical concern to museum these days meaning an uphill battle with some risk for a curator advocating for such a allocation of dollars. For the general public, not volunteers registering for and showing up in your classes, how do you capture their interest? Do you engage them with "coyote" and the several other Nahua loan words into English? Do you try some interactive pronunciation games, along the lines of the complaints registered here? Kids love this stuff--it is a continuation and extension of their computer and cell phone play. Do you seize the opportunity of the "tl" issue to talk about Nahua language history as well as a fun thing for visitors to try to pronounce? Do you talk up the poetry and put some passages on the wall with! translations? Do you have (good quality) video recordings of contemporary Nahua in conversation? Does one have a separate panel for Spanish speakers, where loan words are more plentiful, or even a panel for Nahua speakers, or will that cause problems with the budget, or the trustees or some odd English-first elements in the community? In sum, complaints, yes, accuracy, it goes without saying, but constructive action for "next time" would be nice to see emerging as a result of this incident at a major US museum. And if there are any volunteers, odds are that the web site for the exhibit could be changed very quickly and cheaply. Adding a pronunciation guide would cost nearly nothing. Has anyone already contact the musem? Any one going to call the Field Museum to volunteer? I don't know the details of their IT setup, but even with an external webmaster, changes could be made cheaply to the website on the scale of a week or two at the most. This, I have observed, is how things get started, how relationships get built and communities get expanded--lessening chances for a repeat and decreasing isolation. Jerry Offner ixtlil at earthlink.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx Mon Jan 5 23:47:14 2009 From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 17:47:14 -0600 Subject: Malinche / Marina / Malintzin / Mali:ntzin Message-ID: Na:huatlahtohtzitzintin: Hoy me llegó una consulta de una colega sobre la etimología de Malinche / Malintze. Traté de responder lo mejor que pude (véase el mensaje adjunto). Si alguno de ustedes tiene sugerencias adicionales, se las canalizaré. Saludos y un abrazo por el nuevo año, David **************************************************************************** ********** Estimada Mayra: Respondo a su pregunta: “Desarrollo una investigación sobre Malintzin la intérprete en la Conquista, quisiera saber su opinión sobre el vocablo Malintze que se deformaría en "Malinche" la "e" después del sufijo reverencial, ¿le parece que es un vocativo o un posesivo?”. No tengo una solución definitiva, sino algunas consideraciones. Por otra parte, hace falta peinar las crónicas de la Conquista y otras fuentes del siglo XVI (especialmente las escritas en náhuatl) para datos útiles, cosa que no he hecho. Sí revisé el capítulo 12 del Códice Florentino, que trata de la conquista de Tenochtitlan, y encontré que en el texto en náhuatl se escribe el nombre de esta mujer “Malintzin” nueve veces, “Malintzi” una vez y “Malitzin” una vez. En todos los casos, en el texto en castellano este nombre se traduce como “Marina”. La palabra náhuatl debe ser Malintzin; la pérdida la /n/ final en Malintzi es más o menos común (aunque usualmente no se manifiesta en la ortografía) y la forma Malitzin puede explicarse como un error del escribano. Carochi (libro 1, capítulo 3, párrafo 1) da Malintze como la forma vocativa de la forma reverencial/ diminutiva del nombre castellano María, evidentemente porque los nahuas, quienes no tenían un fonema similar a la /r/ castellana en su inventario fonémico, tendían a sustituirla con /l/. Pero Malintze se puede derivar más directamente del nombre Marina, más que de María (por la presencia del fonema /n/) y Marina era el nombre de pila de la Malinche, según varias fuentes del siglo XVI. Según esta hipótesis, Marina se convertiría en Malina, que perdería su /a/ final por síncopa, agregándose el pseudosufijo de actitud -tzin para así obtener Malintzin, literalmente “venerada / estimada / pequeña / pobrecita Marina” (“venerada” o “estimada” tendrían más sentido en este contexto que “pequeña” o “pobrecita”. El vocativo de Malintzin sería Malintziné o Malintzé, “Oh venerada / estimada Marina”, pero no tiene sentido usar la forma vocativa como nombre propio, por lo que tiene más caso considerar la palabra Malinche como una versión castellana de Malintzin, no de Malintzé. La distorsión mayor no sería raro, considerando que en boca (y pluma) de los conquistadores, Huitzilopochtli se convertía en Huichilobos, Moteuczoma en Montezuma, Tenochtitlan en Temistitan, Cuauhnahuac en Cuernavaca, para dar sólo cuatro casos que encuentro en mi pobre memoria. La hipótesis del sufijo de poseedor -eh tampoco parece tener sentido; en ese caso sería una referencia a alguien que posee a la mujer en cuestión, no a ella misma. Todo lo anterior supone que el nombre náhuatl (Malina / Malintzin) sea un préstamo del nombre castellano Marina (o María, siguiendo a Carochi). Otra hipótesis es que el nombre Malinche se deriva del sustantivo náhuatl Mali:nalli,* “la hierba torcida” (un tipo de gramínea). La forma reverencial sería Mali:naltzin ((mali:nalli - li) + -tzin), “la venerada / estimada hierba torcida”. Considerando que en el Códice Florentino encontramos “Malintzin”, podemos conjeturar que este nombre sea una forma sincopada de Mali:naltzin. Mali:nalli fue uno de los 20 días del calendario adivinatorio de 260 días, por lo que se usaba frecuentemente como antropónimo; las personas recibían el día de su nacimiento en este ciclo como nombre (aunque si éste era un día de mal augurio, se podía seleccionar un día más propicio para nombrar la persona). Prefiero la primera hipótesis, porque para que funcione la segunda, tenemos que desaparecer, por síncopa, los fonemas /al/ de la sílaba /nal/ de Mali:naltzin, cosa que no he visto en otros casos, de que me acuerde. Pero con cualquiera de las dos hipótesis tenemos que plantear la pérdida de uno o más fonemas por síncopa, para derivar la forma Malintzin de Mali:natzin (o Mali:ntzin de Mali:naltzin), según la segunda hipótesis). Espero que estas observaciones le sean de utilidad. Saludos y felicidades por el año nuevo, David Wright * Uso el signo gráfico /:/ para marcar las vocales largas. Fuera de este cambio uso la ortogafía de Andrews y Karttunen. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx Tue Jan 6 00:31:30 2009 From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 18:31:30 -0600 Subject: Malinche / Marina / Malintzin / Mali:ntzin Message-ID: Me sobró un signo /:/ en la palabra Malinatzin hacia el final de mi último mensaje: > Prefiero la primera hipótesis, porque para que funcione la segunda, tenemos que desaparecer, por síncopa, los fonemas /al/ de la sílaba /nal/ de Mali:naltzin, cosa que no he visto en otros casos, de que me acuerde. Pero con cualquiera de las dos hipótesis tenemos que plantear la pérdida de uno o más fonemas por síncopa, para derivar la forma Malintzin de Mali:natzin [sic por Malinatzin] (o Mali:ntzin de Mali:naltzin), según la segunda hipótesis). Hago la aclaración para evitar cualquier confusión. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From idiez at me.com Wed Jan 14 01:21:55 2009 From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan, Ph.D.) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 19:21:55 -0600 Subject: IDIEZ summer Nahuatl program 2009 Message-ID: Notequixpoyohuan, The Instituto de Docencia e Investigación Etnológica de Zacatecas will be holding its Intensive Course in Older and Modern Nahuatl this summer from June 22 to July 31, with an optional seventh week in the Huasteca. We have postponed announcing the program because at this time a US university is considering co-sponsorship, and this will likely include academic year distance courses in Nahuatl taught live by native speakers. We will publish the official announcement at the end of this month, but feel free to contact me now with your questions at idiez at me.com John John Sullivan, Ph.D. Professor of Nahua language and culture Universidad Autónoma de Zacatecas Zacatecas Institute of Teaching and Research in Ethnology Tacuba 152, int. 47 Centro Histórico Zacatecas, Zac. 98000 Mexico Work: +52 (492) 925-3415 Home: +52 (492) 768-6048 Mobile: +52 (492) 103-0195 idiez at me.com www.idiez.org.mx www.macehualli.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From idiez at me.com Thu Jan 29 02:32:36 2009 From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan, Ph.D.) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 20:32:36 -0600 Subject: Tríar Manach in Nahuatl Message-ID: Listeros, You can check out Michael McCafferty's translation of "Tríar Manach", an Old Irish joke, into Classical Nahuatl, and Delfina de la Cruz's translation into Modern Huastecan Nahuatl at http://www.smo.uhi.ac.uk/sengoidelc/donncha/triar_manach/ilteangach/teangacha.html John John Sullivan, Ph.D. Professor of Nahua language and culture Universidad Autónoma de Zacatecas Zacatecas Institute of Teaching and Research in Ethnology Tacuba 152, int. 47 Centro Histórico Zacatecas, Zac. 98000 Mexico Work: +52 (492) 925-3415 Home: +52 (492) 768-6048 Mobile: +52 (492) 103-0195 idiez at mac.com www.idiez.org.mx www.macehualli.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From elebaron at fas.harvard.edu Sat Jan 31 04:00:37 2009 From: elebaron at fas.harvard.edu (Emily Susan Lebaron) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 23:00:37 -0500 Subject: Atlantic History Seminar Conference on Indigenous Languages and Historical Interpretation Message-ID: HARVARD UNIVERSITY International Seminar on the History of the Atlantic World, 1500-1825 Bernard Bailyn, Director A Conference on Indigenous Languages and Historical Interpretation - March 28- 29, 2009 - One of the significant developments in Atlantic historiography over the past few decades has been the quickly expanding knowledge, on the part of historians as well as linguists, of the languages native to the peoples of the Americas. The purpose of the Conference is to consider the consequences of this knowledge for significant lines of interpretation of the history of the European conquest and exploitation of the Americas. The presentations and discussions will focus on specific languages and regions, chiefly in the colonial period, and will consider also what contemporary Europeans actually knew of indigenous languages, how realistic or fanciful their knowledge was. There will be presentations in the morning and afternoon on Saturday, March 28, and on Sunday morning, March 29 by historians who are familiar with and have used one or more of the indigenous languages in their work. General discussion will follow each session. Lunch will be provided on Saturday and a reception will follow the afternoon session. Attendance at the Conference and participation in the discussion are open to the academic community. Historians at the beginning of their careers are especially encouraged to attend. Travel and accommodation will be the responsibility of attendees, though the Conference can provide local lodging information. Registration for this Conference is required. To register, or for more information on the speakers and topics, please visit our website at www.fas.harvard.edu/~atlantic or contact us by e-mail at: elebaron at fas.harvard.edu _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From micc2 at cox.net Thu Jan 1 00:06:06 2009 From: micc2 at cox.net (micc2) Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 16:06:06 -0800 Subject: request for info regarding indigenous instrument makers in Mexican colonial period Message-ID: Hello everyone HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!!! I have a request for your help. I am currently working on my dissertation entitled: /The Influence of the Danza Azteca Tradition of Central Mexico on Chicano-Mexcoehuani Identity and Sacred Space/ I am currently working on the section on how the indigenous people of Mexico circa 1521- 1700 began to manufacture European musical instruments, specifically the guitar and mandolins types. I remember reading about how the royal authorities banned the indigenous people from making musical instruments because the Spanish and Criollo instrument makers were having a hard time competing with the native manufacturers. I am exploring the evolution of today's "/conchas"; /string instruments made out of armadillo shells that are used in La Danza Azteca/Conchera. I thought I had saved that article, but now I cannot find it. Does any one know of a source I can look for? Thanks! Mario E. Aguilar www.mexicayotl.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Thu Jan 1 16:06:19 2009 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2009 11:06:19 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Re: Chicago's Field Museum In-Reply-To: <380-220081233117644593@earthlink.net> Message-ID: In this day and age it is inexcusable for a museum of such renown as the Field Museum to have crappy linguistics. It's just beyond the pale. Were this the turn of the 20th century, it would be understandable, but this sort of thing happens quite often today, especially in books, history books. A recently published and quite popular--and otherwise well written--book on an American Indian tribe comes to mind. The author, a historian, did not once consult a linguist about the native language forms used in the book--and so that aspect of the work is just sloppy and substandard. There's no excuse. It's not that hard to find a linguistic authority. Museum exhibitors need to wake up. That's all. Other than that, the exhibit does indeed look wonderful. Ok. Back to dancing on the head of a pin. Michael Quoting Jerry Offner : > If we brush aside, for the moment, the legions of linguistic angels by now > arrayed and thoroughly crowded on the head of a pin, and the more > interesting lingustic questions of museology and making non-Western > languages somewhat accessible and hopefully even interesting and engaging > to museum visitors, what is the substance of the exhibit like? > > Some images can be seen at: > > http://www.fieldmuseum.org/aztecs/ > > but are there new or very rarely seen objects? Is any of the commentary > the least bit inaccurate or otherwise controversial? How is it on the > Apocalypto scale--responsible and broad spectrum or sensationalist and > leering? Certainly, the website's tone is promising. Have they eschewed > the seemingly inevitable atmospheric flute music in favor of another theme > or approach? > > Having mounted a few exhibits myself, they are a very difficult balancing > act between sponsors, museums, museum directors, trustees and curators, > availability of material, outside marketing consultants, outside academic > consultants, exhibition preparation and design staff (often the most > inspiring, creative and unsung group), etc. etc. (It sounds difficult, but > it is great if exhausting and humbling fun). It would be a shame if all > this (admittedly lingustically-oriented) list has to offer about this > exhibit are some obscure, conflicting and ranking comments on pronunciation > guides for the English/Spanish (and other language) non-academic visitors > to the exhibit. I don't recall seeing anything on the aztlan list about > the exhibit other than the announcement of its existence. > > And backed to those crowded angels--how exactly would one have written a > pronunciation guide that would engage the public? Are there prior examples > of excellence? What about next time? And what about this time? Do the > comments offered so far encourage non-specialists to use specialists next > time or do they just further isolate all parties? > > Show us. > > Jerry Offner > > >> [Original Message] >> From: Michael McCafferty >> To: >> Date: 12/31/2008 09:49:57 AM >> Subject: Re: [Nahuat-l] Fwd: Re: Chicago's Field Museum >> >> Quoting "Robert A. Neinast" : >> >> > Michael McCafferty wrote: >> >>>> Oh, and for a final >> >>>> "tl" they had it pronounced simply as "t". >> >> >> >> It's like that in some dialects, so it's not a great offense. >> > >> > Don't forget, this exhibit was "The Aztec World," not >> > "The Modern Nahuatl Dialects World." >> >> Naturally, an exhibit of this caliber should have -tl instead of -t. >> That's agreed. >> >> > >> > Or were there dialects 500 years ago that did this? >> >> Yes. In fact, the sound written -tl derives from a proto-Uto-Aztecan >> /*t/ following /a/. It's not unreasonable to assume that some ancient >> dialects did not take that /*t/ to the sound written -tl. I don't >> believe the necessary evidence exists to corroborate that notion, >> however. >> >> Michael >> >> > >> > Bob >> > -- >> > " . . . and shun the Frumious Bandersnatch." >> > Robert A. Neinast >> > Pickerington, OH >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Nahuatl mailing list >> > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org >> > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl >> > >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Nahuatl mailing list >> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org >> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > > > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From karttu at nantucket.net Thu Jan 1 16:45:44 2009 From: karttu at nantucket.net (Frances Karttunen) Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2009 11:45:44 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Re: Chicago's Field Museum In-Reply-To: <20090101110619.g91w098lbcoksg0k@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: Agreed. For me, the single most unacceptable pronunciation guide in this exhibit's captioning is: tay-COOT-lee for 'lord, ruler' Why? Because it shows that the person responsible for putting this before the public not only does not know how the Nahuatl word is pronounced but is so arrogant that s/he hasn't made any effort to find out. It's not by any means the best that could be done to indicate an approximate pronunciation to English or Spanish speaking museum-goers. Nobody would butcher French or German or Spanish this way and get away with it. So instead of brushing off as nitpickers the people who really DO know Nahuatl, how about affording this actually very well-known language the respect of engaging someone knowledgeable to vet the captions before they go up? Fran On Jan 1, 2009, at 11:06 AM, Michael McCafferty wrote: > > > In this day and age it is inexcusable for a museum of such renown as > the Field Museum to have crappy linguistics. It's just beyond the > pale. > Were this the turn of the 20th century, it would be understandable, > but > this sort of thing happens quite often today, especially in books, > history books. A recently published and quite popular--and otherwise > well written--book on an American Indian tribe comes to mind. The > author, a historian, did not once consult a linguist about the native > language forms used in the book--and so that aspect of the work is > just > sloppy and substandard. There's no excuse. It's not that hard to > find a > linguistic authority. Museum exhibitors need to wake up. That's all. > Other than that, the exhibit does indeed look wonderful. > > Ok. Back to dancing on the head of a pin. > > Michael > > > > > Quoting Jerry Offner : > >> If we brush aside, for the moment, the legions of linguistic >> angels by now >> arrayed and thoroughly crowded on the head of a pin, and the more >> interesting lingustic questions of museology and making non-Western >> languages somewhat accessible and hopefully even interesting and >> engaging >> to museum visitors, what is the substance of the exhibit like? >> >> Some images can be seen at: >> >> http://www.fieldmuseum.org/aztecs/ >> >> but are there new or very rarely seen objects? Is any of the >> commentary >> the least bit inaccurate or otherwise controversial? How is it on >> the >> Apocalypto scale--responsible and broad spectrum or sensationalist >> and >> leering? Certainly, the website's tone is promising. Have they >> eschewed >> the seemingly inevitable atmospheric flute music in favor of >> another theme >> or approach? >> >> Having mounted a few exhibits myself, they are a very difficult >> balancing >> act between sponsors, museums, museum directors, trustees and >> curators, >> availability of material, outside marketing consultants, outside >> academic >> consultants, exhibition preparation and design staff (often the most >> inspiring, creative and unsung group), etc. etc. (It sounds >> difficult, but >> it is great if exhausting and humbling fun). It would be a shame >> if all >> this (admittedly lingustically-oriented) list has to offer about this >> exhibit are some obscure, conflicting and ranking comments on >> pronunciation >> guides for the English/Spanish (and other language) non-academic >> visitors >> to the exhibit. I don't recall seeing anything on the aztlan list >> about >> the exhibit other than the announcement of its existence. >> >> And backed to those crowded angels--how exactly would one have >> written a >> pronunciation guide that would engage the public? Are there prior >> examples >> of excellence? What about next time? And what about this time? >> Do the >> comments offered so far encourage non-specialists to use >> specialists next >> time or do they just further isolate all parties? >> >> Show us. >> >> Jerry Offner >> >> >>> [Original Message] >>> From: Michael McCafferty >>> To: >>> Date: 12/31/2008 09:49:57 AM >>> Subject: Re: [Nahuat-l] Fwd: Re: Chicago's Field Museum >>> >>> Quoting "Robert A. Neinast" : >>> >>>> Michael McCafferty wrote: >>>>>>> Oh, and for a final >>>>>>> "tl" they had it pronounced simply as "t". >>>>> >>>>> It's like that in some dialects, so it's not a great offense. >>>> >>>> Don't forget, this exhibit was "The Aztec World," not >>>> "The Modern Nahuatl Dialects World." >>> >>> Naturally, an exhibit of this caliber should have -tl instead of -t. >>> That's agreed. >>> >>>> >>>> Or were there dialects 500 years ago that did this? >>> >>> Yes. In fact, the sound written -tl derives from a proto-Uto-Aztecan >>> /*t/ following /a/. It's not unreasonable to assume that some >>> ancient >>> dialects did not take that /*t/ to the sound written -tl. I don't >>> believe the necessary evidence exists to corroborate that notion, >>> however. >>> >>> Michael >>> >>>> >>>> Bob >>>> -- >>>> " . . . and shun the Frumious Bandersnatch." >>>> Robert A. Neinast >>>> Pickerington, OH >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Nahuatl mailing list >>>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org >>>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Nahuatl mailing list >>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org >>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Nahuatl mailing list >> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org >> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx Thu Jan 1 19:38:50 2009 From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright) Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2009 13:38:50 -0600 Subject: Fwd: Re: Chicago's Field Museum Message-ID: I respectfully submit my replies to Jerry Offner's questions. > And backed to those crowded angels--how exactly would one have written a pronunciation guide that would engage the public? Accurately. > Are there prior examples of excellence? Many, from the mid-sixteenth century to the present. > What about next time? I hope they get it right. > And what about this time? They didn't get it right. It could still be corrected. > Do the comments offered so far encourage non-specialists to use specialists next time or do they just further isolate all parties? Communication is the first step; each person involved is responsible for his or her reaction. Criticism and correction are essential ingredients of the scientific method. Best wishes for the new year, David Wright -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From ixtlil at earthlink.net Thu Jan 1 18:35:03 2009 From: ixtlil at earthlink.net (Jerry Offner) Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2009 12:35:03 -0600 Subject: Constructive action following the Field Musem Aztec Exhibit Message-ID: Good. Perhaps a few more comments may come in. Accuracy is of course the goal but compaining about inaccuracy to the exclusion of everything else is feckless and self-isolating. Hence my post. There were several messages in my post: 1. Is the actual exhibition of good quality? If the linguistics is lacking, what else may be faulty? 2. Is there an existing pronunciation guide that could have been used? If not, why not? 3. Can perhaps one be constructed for "next time" at this time for use at another exhibit? It would seem a simple task. 4. How does one engage the visitors? In Chicago, with its enormous Mexican population, a good number will be Nahua speakers. This is an interesting language teaching/learning situation. This was in fact a wasted opportunity as was just pointed out by several. The exhibit was well known to be in progress for a long time. Why did the network of the curators and consultants fail to network with a linguist? Equally importantly, why did no linguist insist on getting involved? Was someone actually rebuffed in such an attempt? And as Fran Karttunen implies, why did the exhibit personnel think this could be a "do it yourself" job? What is it about NahuaAztec/archaeology/ethnohistory studies these days that created this approach? This relates to the isolation I mention in my post and its origin and probable continuance. It is an interesting problem in the sociology of knowledge. After all, language is central to understanding another culture, so why did the group of curators and consultants handle things the way they did? There is evidently a good deal of disfunction in the discipline revealed here. It also seems rather retro as the US becomes much less E! nglish monolingual. And just maybe, it was the judgement of the curators and consultants that what they did was the best they could do, and the result of an effort on their part to engage the audience as they and the consultants saw it in the most cost-effective manner. A few exhibit panels could have been dedicated to language. Were they? Nowadays, interactive displays are easy and increasingly affordable. But this takes away from the budget for object display which is what brings in the bucks--a critical concern to museum these days meaning an uphill battle with some risk for a curator advocating for such a allocation of dollars. For the general public, not volunteers registering for and showing up in your classes, how do you capture their interest? Do you engage them with "coyote" and the several other Nahua loan words into English? Do you try some interactive pronunciation games, along the lines of the complaints registered here? Kids love this stuff--it is a continuation and extension of their computer and cell phone play. Do you seize the opportunity of the "tl" issue to talk about Nahua language history as well as a fun thing for visitors to try to pronounce? Do you talk up the poetry and put some passages on the wall with! translations? Do you have (good quality) video recordings of contemporary Nahua in conversation? Does one have a separate panel for Spanish speakers, where loan words are more plentiful, or even a panel for Nahua speakers, or will that cause problems with the budget, or the trustees or some odd English-first elements in the community? In sum, complaints, yes, accuracy, it goes without saying, but constructive action for "next time" would be nice to see emerging as a result of this incident at a major US museum. And if there are any volunteers, odds are that the web site for the exhibit could be changed very quickly and cheaply. Adding a pronunciation guide would cost nearly nothing. Has anyone already contact the musem? Any one going to call the Field Museum to volunteer? I don't know the details of their IT setup, but even with an external webmaster, changes could be made cheaply to the website on the scale of a week or two at the most. This, I have observed, is how things get started, how relationships get built and communities get expanded--lessening chances for a repeat and decreasing isolation. Jerry Offner ixtlil at earthlink.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx Mon Jan 5 23:47:14 2009 From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 17:47:14 -0600 Subject: Malinche / Marina / Malintzin / Mali:ntzin Message-ID: Na:huatlahtohtzitzintin: Hoy me lleg? una consulta de una colega sobre la etimolog?a de Malinche / Malintze. Trat? de responder lo mejor que pude (v?ase el mensaje adjunto). Si alguno de ustedes tiene sugerencias adicionales, se las canalizar?. Saludos y un abrazo por el nuevo a?o, David **************************************************************************** ********** Estimada Mayra: Respondo a su pregunta: ?Desarrollo una investigaci?n sobre Malintzin la int?rprete en la Conquista, quisiera saber su opini?n sobre el vocablo Malintze que se deformar?a en "Malinche" la "e" despu?s del sufijo reverencial, ?le parece que es un vocativo o un posesivo??. No tengo una soluci?n definitiva, sino algunas consideraciones. Por otra parte, hace falta peinar las cr?nicas de la Conquista y otras fuentes del siglo XVI (especialmente las escritas en n?huatl) para datos ?tiles, cosa que no he hecho. S? revis? el cap?tulo 12 del C?dice Florentino, que trata de la conquista de Tenochtitlan, y encontr? que en el texto en n?huatl se escribe el nombre de esta mujer ?Malintzin? nueve veces, ?Malintzi? una vez y ?Malitzin? una vez. En todos los casos, en el texto en castellano este nombre se traduce como ?Marina?. La palabra n?huatl debe ser Malintzin; la p?rdida la /n/ final en Malintzi es m?s o menos com?n (aunque usualmente no se manifiesta en la ortograf?a) y la forma Malitzin puede explicarse como un error del escribano. Carochi (libro 1, cap?tulo 3, p?rrafo 1) da Malintze como la forma vocativa de la forma reverencial/ diminutiva del nombre castellano Mar?a, evidentemente porque los nahuas, quienes no ten?an un fonema similar a la /r/ castellana en su inventario fon?mico, tend?an a sustituirla con /l/. Pero Malintze se puede derivar m?s directamente del nombre Marina, m?s que de Mar?a (por la presencia del fonema /n/) y Marina era el nombre de pila de la Malinche, seg?n varias fuentes del siglo XVI. Seg?n esta hip?tesis, Marina se convertir?a en Malina, que perder?a su /a/ final por s?ncopa, agreg?ndose el pseudosufijo de actitud -tzin para as? obtener Malintzin, literalmente ?venerada / estimada / peque?a / pobrecita Marina? (?venerada? o ?estimada? tendr?an m?s sentido en este contexto que ?peque?a? o ?pobrecita?. El vocativo de Malintzin ser?a Malintzin? o Malintz?, ?Oh venerada / estimada Marina?, pero no tiene sentido usar la forma vocativa como nombre propio, por lo que tiene m?s caso considerar la palabra Malinche como una versi?n castellana de Malintzin, no de Malintz?. La distorsi?n mayor no ser?a raro, considerando que en boca (y pluma) de los conquistadores, Huitzilopochtli se convert?a en Huichilobos, Moteuczoma en Montezuma, Tenochtitlan en Temistitan, Cuauhnahuac en Cuernavaca, para dar s?lo cuatro casos que encuentro en mi pobre memoria. La hip?tesis del sufijo de poseedor -eh tampoco parece tener sentido; en ese caso ser?a una referencia a alguien que posee a la mujer en cuesti?n, no a ella misma. Todo lo anterior supone que el nombre n?huatl (Malina / Malintzin) sea un pr?stamo del nombre castellano Marina (o Mar?a, siguiendo a Carochi). Otra hip?tesis es que el nombre Malinche se deriva del sustantivo n?huatl Mali:nalli,* ?la hierba torcida? (un tipo de gram?nea). La forma reverencial ser?a Mali:naltzin ((mali:nalli - li) + -tzin), ?la venerada / estimada hierba torcida?. Considerando que en el C?dice Florentino encontramos ?Malintzin?, podemos conjeturar que este nombre sea una forma sincopada de Mali:naltzin. Mali:nalli fue uno de los 20 d?as del calendario adivinatorio de 260 d?as, por lo que se usaba frecuentemente como antrop?nimo; las personas recib?an el d?a de su nacimiento en este ciclo como nombre (aunque si ?ste era un d?a de mal augurio, se pod?a seleccionar un d?a m?s propicio para nombrar la persona). Prefiero la primera hip?tesis, porque para que funcione la segunda, tenemos que desaparecer, por s?ncopa, los fonemas /al/ de la s?laba /nal/ de Mali:naltzin, cosa que no he visto en otros casos, de que me acuerde. Pero con cualquiera de las dos hip?tesis tenemos que plantear la p?rdida de uno o m?s fonemas por s?ncopa, para derivar la forma Malintzin de Mali:natzin (o Mali:ntzin de Mali:naltzin), seg?n la segunda hip?tesis). Espero que estas observaciones le sean de utilidad. Saludos y felicidades por el a?o nuevo, David Wright * Uso el signo gr?fico /:/ para marcar las vocales largas. Fuera de este cambio uso la ortogaf?a de Andrews y Karttunen. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx Tue Jan 6 00:31:30 2009 From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 18:31:30 -0600 Subject: Malinche / Marina / Malintzin / Mali:ntzin Message-ID: Me sobr? un signo /:/ en la palabra Malinatzin hacia el final de mi ?ltimo mensaje: > Prefiero la primera hip?tesis, porque para que funcione la segunda, tenemos que desaparecer, por s?ncopa, los fonemas /al/ de la s?laba /nal/ de Mali:naltzin, cosa que no he visto en otros casos, de que me acuerde. Pero con cualquiera de las dos hip?tesis tenemos que plantear la p?rdida de uno o m?s fonemas por s?ncopa, para derivar la forma Malintzin de Mali:natzin [sic por Malinatzin] (o Mali:ntzin de Mali:naltzin), seg?n la segunda hip?tesis). Hago la aclaraci?n para evitar cualquier confusi?n. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From idiez at me.com Wed Jan 14 01:21:55 2009 From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan, Ph.D.) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 19:21:55 -0600 Subject: IDIEZ summer Nahuatl program 2009 Message-ID: Notequixpoyohuan, The Instituto de Docencia e Investigaci?n Etnol?gica de Zacatecas will be holding its Intensive Course in Older and Modern Nahuatl this summer from June 22 to July 31, with an optional seventh week in the Huasteca. We have postponed announcing the program because at this time a US university is considering co-sponsorship, and this will likely include academic year distance courses in Nahuatl taught live by native speakers. We will publish the official announcement at the end of this month, but feel free to contact me now with your questions at idiez at me.com John John Sullivan, Ph.D. Professor of Nahua language and culture Universidad Aut?noma de Zacatecas Zacatecas Institute of Teaching and Research in Ethnology Tacuba 152, int. 47 Centro Hist?rico Zacatecas, Zac. 98000 Mexico Work: +52 (492) 925-3415 Home: +52 (492) 768-6048 Mobile: +52 (492) 103-0195 idiez at me.com www.idiez.org.mx www.macehualli.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From idiez at me.com Thu Jan 29 02:32:36 2009 From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan, Ph.D.) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 20:32:36 -0600 Subject: Tríar Manach in Nahuatl Message-ID: Listeros, You can check out Michael McCafferty's translation of "Tr?ar Manach", an Old Irish joke, into Classical Nahuatl, and Delfina de la Cruz's translation into Modern Huastecan Nahuatl at http://www.smo.uhi.ac.uk/sengoidelc/donncha/triar_manach/ilteangach/teangacha.html John John Sullivan, Ph.D. Professor of Nahua language and culture Universidad Aut?noma de Zacatecas Zacatecas Institute of Teaching and Research in Ethnology Tacuba 152, int. 47 Centro Hist?rico Zacatecas, Zac. 98000 Mexico Work: +52 (492) 925-3415 Home: +52 (492) 768-6048 Mobile: +52 (492) 103-0195 idiez at mac.com www.idiez.org.mx www.macehualli.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From elebaron at fas.harvard.edu Sat Jan 31 04:00:37 2009 From: elebaron at fas.harvard.edu (Emily Susan Lebaron) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 23:00:37 -0500 Subject: Atlantic History Seminar Conference on Indigenous Languages and Historical Interpretation Message-ID: HARVARD UNIVERSITY International Seminar on the History of the Atlantic World, 1500-1825 Bernard Bailyn, Director A Conference on Indigenous Languages and Historical Interpretation - March 28- 29, 2009 - One of the significant developments in Atlantic historiography over the past few decades has been the quickly expanding knowledge, on the part of historians as well as linguists, of the languages native to the peoples of the Americas. The purpose of the Conference is to consider the consequences of this knowledge for significant lines of interpretation of the history of the European conquest and exploitation of the Americas. The presentations and discussions will focus on specific languages and regions, chiefly in the colonial period, and will consider also what contemporary Europeans actually knew of indigenous languages, how realistic or fanciful their knowledge was. There will be presentations in the morning and afternoon on Saturday, March 28, and on Sunday morning, March 29 by historians who are familiar with and have used one or more of the indigenous languages in their work. General discussion will follow each session. Lunch will be provided on Saturday and a reception will follow the afternoon session. Attendance at the Conference and participation in the discussion are open to the academic community. Historians at the beginning of their careers are especially encouraged to attend. Travel and accommodation will be the responsibility of attendees, though the Conference can provide local lodging information. Registration for this Conference is required. To register, or for more information on the speakers and topics, please visit our website at www.fas.harvard.edu/~atlantic or contact us by e-mail at: elebaron at fas.harvard.edu _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl