From lahunik.62 at skynet.be Sun Nov 1 21:56:12 2009 From: lahunik.62 at skynet.be (Baert Georges) Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2009 22:56:12 +0100 Subject: Colors Message-ID: Chichiltic or Chihchiltic= red. Chilehuatic= red. Chilpahtic= clear red. Chilpatzcaltic= vivid red. Aztapiltic= white clear. Iztac= white. Iztalehuac or iztalectic= mat white. Teztic= white. Tliltic= black Tlilayohtic= very dark green. Tlilli= black, color of soot. Pahpaltic= dark black. Coztic= yellow. Cozauhqui= gold yellow. Cozyayactic= dark yellow. Nextic= color of ashes. Matlaltic= dark bleu. Quilpaltic= cupper green (vert-de-gris). Quilyayatic= dark green. Quiquilyic= green of leafs. Xoxoctic or xoxohuic or xoxouhqui= green. Xopalectic or xopalehuac= clear green. Yapalli or Iyapalli= dark green. Yayauhcaquiltihcectic= dark green. Cahcamoliuhqui= violet Camiltic or Camilhuiltic or camilloh= brown. Camohpalpoyahuac= brown. Xiuhtic= turquoise. Texohcaltic= bleu like smoke. Texohcaltic= clear bleu. Texocamiltic= dark bleu. Texohpoyahuac= clear bleu. Texohtli or texohtic or texohyoh= clear bleu. Tlahuizcaltic= pink. Tlaztalehualli= pink Ixcuappachtic= clear violet. Pinehuac or pinectic= bleu lilla Lahun ik 62 Baert Georges Flanders Fields -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From lahunik.62 at skynet.be Sun Nov 1 22:28:18 2009 From: lahunik.62 at skynet.be (Baert Georges) Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2009 23:28:18 +0100 Subject: Camohpaltic Message-ID: Camohpaltic: * Dark brown; * R.Siméon 56, camohpalli, brown, dark violet. * Molina II,12r, color morado oscuro. * Form on paltic, morp.incorp., camoh-tli. Cahmo (ca-ahmo): it is not at all (Sah.6,129) (Launey). * Paltic, form on palli: colored. * So camohpaltic could be translated as, not colored at all, because of the very dark color. Lahun Ik 62 Baert Georges Flanders Fields -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From dustintyrone at yahoo.com Mon Nov 2 14:29:57 2009 From: dustintyrone at yahoo.com (Dustin De Felice) Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 06:29:57 -0800 Subject: Research Participant Request Message-ID: Good day Listeros, Please respond to me off list at dustintyrone at yahoo.com. Thank you. My name is Dustin De Felice and I am a student researcher (currently in my 2nd year of doctoral study). I am researching the experiences people have had while studying the Nahuatl language and I am looking for study participants. I would be interested in hearing from individuals willing to discuss their experiences. These experiences could be from a person who just started learning Nahuatl or from an individual with many years and formal classroom experience. I would like to hear from someone who might have casually started studying Nahuatl through the internet or someone who has attended an intensive program like the one offered by IDIEZ in Zacatecas. I am interested in hearing about your experiences, your motivations (or why you no longer actively study the language), and your suggestions (on materials used, resources found, etc.). There are two ways to participate in the study. First, you can agree to a brief recorded 10-20 minute interview that can be conducted using text-based chat or voice-based software (I can call you as well). Second, you can fill out a set of questions that can be completed and returned at your convenience by email. As a new researcher interested in the Nahuatl language, I would very much appreciate your participation in my study. I would also appreciate you forwarding this information to other individuals that might be interested in participating. I will share my findings with this listserv in a few months as I near completion of the study. Thank you in advance, Dustin De Felice, Student Researcher Second Language Acquisition and Instructional Technology (SLA/IT) University of South Florida (USF), Tampa, FL, USA. dustintyrone at yahoo.com Please respond to me off list at dustintyrone at yahoo.com. Thank you. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From idiez at me.com Mon Nov 2 11:48:15 2009 From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan, Ph.D.) Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 05:48:15 -0600 Subject: Camohpaltic In-Reply-To: <9D38AF1F5A734F2AB9FF54C1D8A3C505@baert> Message-ID: Baert, "Camohtli" is the purple sweet potato, and "camohtic" is the color purple in Huastecan Nahuatl. "Cahmo (ca ahmo)" cannot be used as the nucleus of a noun, and even if it could, the "h" in "camohpaltic" is not in the same place as the "h" in "cahmo" John On Nov 1, 2009, at 4:28 PM, Baert Georges wrote: > Camohpaltic: > · Dark brown; > · R.Siméon 56, camohpalli, brown, dark violet. > · Molina II,12r, color morado oscuro. > · Form on paltic, morp.incorp., camoh-tli. > Cahmo (ca-ahmo): it is not at all (Sah.6,129) (Launey). > · Paltic, form on palli: colored. > · So camohpaltic could be translated as, not colored at all, > because of the very dark color. > Lahun Ik 62 > Baert Georges > Flanders Fields > > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Mon Nov 2 16:48:13 2009 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 11:48:13 -0500 Subject: Camohpaltic In-Reply-To: <9D38AF1F5A734F2AB9FF54C1D8A3C505@baert> Message-ID: Quoting Baert Georges : > Camohpaltic: > > > * So camohpaltic could be translated as, not colored at all, because of > the very dark color. This doesn't work grammatically. Noun stems precede -paltic, not verbs. Michael > > Lahun Ik 62 > > Baert Georges > > Flanders Fields > > > > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Mon Nov 2 16:53:22 2009 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 11:53:22 -0500 Subject: Camohpaltic In-Reply-To: <19621A2C-A8E4-476E-B6EA-2B78581C12F1@me.com> Message-ID: Quoting "John Sullivan, Ph.D." : > Baert, > "Camohtli" is the purple sweet potato, and "camohtic" is the color > purple in Huastecan Nahuatl. > "Cahmo (ca ahmo)" cannot be used as the nucleus of a noun, and even > if it could, the "h" in "camohpaltic" is not in the same place as the > "h" in "cahmo" > John John, the other night when Susana wrote me asking about "camopaltic" and asked, "What is the cam-", I thought about camohtli 'sweet potato'. But I dismissed it, because around here sweet potatoes are orange. Consequently, I had no idea what the "cam-" could be. Thanks for the lesson in biodiversity. :-) Michael On Nov 1, 2009, at 4:28 PM, Baert Georges wrote: > >> Camohpaltic: >> · Dark brown; >> · R.Siméon 56, camohpalli, brown, dark violet. >> · Molina II,12r, color morado oscuro. >> · Form on paltic, morp.incorp., camoh-tli. >> Cahmo (ca-ahmo): it is not at all (Sah.6,129) (Launey). >> · Paltic, form on palli: colored. >> · So camohpaltic could be translated as, not colored at all, >> because of the very dark color. >> Lahun Ik 62 >> Baert Georges >> Flanders Fields >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Nahuatl mailing list >> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org >> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Mon Nov 2 19:23:27 2009 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 14:23:27 -0500 Subject: Colors In-Reply-To: <20C18E8CB875461C95EA2AE97D121915@baert> Message-ID: Baert Georges: Thank you for the list of colors not readily available. What are your sources for the lesser known ones such as "lilac"? The Florentine Codex, Book 11, has a chapter on colors with some interesting ones in it. Michael Quoting Baert Georges : > Chichiltic or Chihchiltic= red. > > Chilehuatic= red. > > Chilpahtic= clear red. > > Chilpatzcaltic= vivid red. > > Aztapiltic= white clear. > > Iztac= white. > > Iztalehuac or iztalectic= mat white. > > Teztic= white. > > Tliltic= black > > Tlilayohtic= very dark green. > > Tlilli= black, color of soot. > > Pahpaltic= dark black. > > Coztic= yellow. > > Cozauhqui= gold yellow. > > Cozyayactic= dark yellow. > > Nextic= color of ashes. > > Matlaltic= dark bleu. > > Quilpaltic= cupper green (vert-de-gris). > > Quilyayatic= dark green. > > Quiquilyic= green of leafs. > > Xoxoctic or xoxohuic or xoxouhqui= green. > > Xopalectic or xopalehuac= clear green. > > Yapalli or Iyapalli= dark green. > > Yayauhcaquiltihcectic= dark green. > > Cahcamoliuhqui= violet > > Camiltic or Camilhuiltic or camilloh= brown. > > Camohpalpoyahuac= brown. > > Xiuhtic= turquoise. > > Texohcaltic= bleu like smoke. > > Texohcaltic= clear bleu. > > Texocamiltic= dark bleu. > > Texohpoyahuac= clear bleu. > > Texohtli or texohtic or texohyoh= clear bleu. > > Tlahuizcaltic= pink. > > Tlaztalehualli= pink > > Ixcuappachtic= clear violet. > > Pinehuac or pinectic= bleu lilla > > > > Lahun ik 62 > > Baert Georges > > Flanders Fields > > > > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From susana at losrancheros.org Wed Nov 4 15:54:10 2009 From: susana at losrancheros.org (Susana Moraleda) Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 16:54:10 +0100 Subject: colours Message-ID: Thank you so much to all for your enlightening comments on colours. I have compiled a worksheet with your views and I'd like to share it with you all. Please find it attached. Nuevamente muchas gracias Susana -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: colores.xls Type: application/vnd.ms-excel Size: 25088 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From idiez at mac.com Wed Nov 4 19:34:43 2009 From: idiez at mac.com (John Sullivan, Ph.D.) Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 13:34:43 -0600 Subject: Another Nahuatl instructional video Message-ID: Piyali, We have another instructional video up on youtube. You can locate it under its name, "Cualantli tlen ce teconeuh" John John Sullivan, Ph.D. Professor of Nahua language and culture Universidad Autónoma de Zacatecas Zacatecas Institute of Teaching and Research in Ethnology Tacuba 152, int. 43 Centro Histórico Zacatecas, Zac. 98000 Mexico Work: +52 (492) 925-3415 Fax: +1 (858) 724-3030 (U.S.A.) Home: +52 (492) 768-6048 Mobile: +52 1 (492) 103-0195 idiez at me.com www.macehualli.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From micc2 at cox.net Thu Nov 5 00:29:21 2009 From: micc2 at cox.net (micc2) Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 16:29:21 -0800 Subject: colours In-Reply-To: <003d01ca5d67$0e812600$8de83697@susana> Message-ID: Here is one that I put together using my research with John Sullivan's students In La Huasteca, and the latest e-mail from Baert Georges Mario I live for reasoned, enlightened spirituality: "Tlacecelilli", tranquilidad, paz Mario E. Aguilar, PhD www.mexicayotl.net Susana Moraleda wrote: > Thank you so much to all for your enlightening comments on colours. I > have compiled a worksheet with your views and I'd like to share it > with you all. Please find it attached. > > Nuevamente muchas gracias > > Susana > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: ixnezcayotl-los colores.docx Type: application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.wordprocessingml.document Size: 26098 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From schwallr at potsdam.edu Thu Nov 5 01:57:54 2009 From: schwallr at potsdam.edu (John F. Schwaller) Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 20:57:54 -0500 Subject: Attachments Message-ID: Colleagues, Just a bit of housekeeping: The software which powers this list does NOT do a particularly good job with attachments. Please do not send them to the list. They frequently are stripped out or result in large files of unintelligible data. If you can, include the info as part of the post or point colleagues to a web address where the data may be located. I can, if requested, put it on nahuatl.org -- John F. Schwaller President, SUNY Potsdam 44 Pierrepont Ave. Potsdam, NY 13676 schwallr at potsdam.edu _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Thu Nov 5 17:05:11 2009 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 12:05:11 -0500 Subject: colours In-Reply-To: <4AF21C61.1020408@cox.net> Message-ID: This list is nice, Mario, but, one must beware, as it includes the erroneous grammatical analysis of "purple" that Georges offered the other day. It would be a sounder document without that confusing/confused part. Best, Michael Quoting micc2 : > Here is one that I put together using my research with John > Sullivan's students In La Huasteca, and the latest e-mail from Baert > Georges > > > > Mario > > I live for reasoned, enlightened spirituality: > > "Tlacecelilli", tranquilidad, paz > > > Mario E. Aguilar, PhD > www.mexicayotl.net > > > > > Susana Moraleda wrote: >> Thank you so much to all for your enlightening comments on colours. >> I have compiled a worksheet with your views and I'd like to share it >> with you all. Please find it attached. >> Nuevamente muchas gracias >> Susana >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Nahuatl mailing list >> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org >> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl >> > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mcdo0030 at umn.edu Thu Nov 5 19:18:42 2009 From: mcdo0030 at umn.edu (Kelly McDonough) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 13:18:42 -0600 Subject: convocatoria Message-ID: 4 de noviembre de 2009 Atención: Especialistas, Académicos, Estudiantes e Interesados Estimados todos, Por medio de la presente les hacemos una cordial invitación para participar en un congreso internacional organizado por NAISA (Asociación de Estudios Indígenas y Nativo-americanos www.naisa.org ). Victoriano de la Cruz (CIESAS D.F.) y Kelly McDonough (Universidad de Minnesota) pensamos proponer un panel dirigido a todo aquel interesado en la lengua y cultura náhuatl. NAISA es un organización interdisciplinaria creada en 2007, actualmente cuenta con 500 miembros. Los congresos realizados se han llevado a cabo en Universidad de Oklahoma en Mayo 2007, posteriormente, en Universidad de Georgia en abril de 2008 y por último, en Universidad de Minnesota en mayo del 2009. El congreso tendrá lugar el día 21, 21 y 23 de Mayo de 2010 en la Universidad de Arizona en la Cd. de Tucson. El panel es: “Lengua, cultura e historia náhuatl”. El objetivo del foro es crear una discusión acerca diversos trabajos relacionados con la lengua (cultura e historia) del náhuatl. Trabajos de cualquier disciplina o época están bienvenidos. Esperamos pronto una sinopsis de una posible ponencia de no más de 150 palabras a más tardar el 15 de noviembre del mes en curso (tepoxteco3 at hotmail.com y mcdo0030 at umn.edu), para que sea revisado y, en su caso, aceptado. Cualquier duda o comentario estamos a sus órdenes, mil gracias y saludos cordiales. Victoriano de la Cruz CIESAS D.F. Teléfono: 55 205 460 78 E-mail: tepoxteco3 at hotmail.com Kelly McDonough Universidad de Minnesota Twin Cities Departamento de estudios de español y portugués 612/624-5529 E-mail: mcdo0030 at umn.edu Kelly McDonough University of Minnesota - Twin Cities Department of Spanish & Portuguese Studies 612/624-5529 mcdo0030 at umn.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From lahunik.62 at skynet.be Thu Nov 5 21:12:29 2009 From: lahunik.62 at skynet.be (Baert Georges) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 22:12:29 +0100 Subject: Colors Message-ID: Camohpaltic, deep dark violet or purple. I want to offer my apologies if I had present a seemingly very confusing explanation of Camopaltic, the noun of a deep dark violet color. But let me quote the statements of Michel Launey in his Introduccion a la lengua Nahuatl, page 29, no7, about La particula ca, and the footnote no7: Senalemos desde ahora la desaparicion casi total de ca en el conjunto de dialectos modernos. Los lectores interesados sobre todo en la practica del Nahuatl moderne deberan acostunbrase a ya no utilizarlo. Pero este termino juega un papel fundamental en el Nahuatl classico. And page 30, no9. Interrogacion y negacion: Amo sirve tambien de negacion, amo (o ca ahmo = NO). If ca ahmo (or with the saltillo accent ca amo) means NO, and if paltic means COLORED, than there could be a possibility of negation. I know that the saltillo has changed of place, but is a contraction of the two syllables together, ca and ahmo, not possible? After all it is the saltillo which has changed of place and there is nothing wrong with ca-moh, CV-CVC (saltillo). Yes camohpaltic is a noun, but it could also be a sentence, because el Nahuatl is often a very confusing language. Lahun Ik 62 Baert Georges Flanders Fields -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From h.kammler at em.uni-frankfurt.de Thu Nov 5 21:54:49 2009 From: h.kammler at em.uni-frankfurt.de (Henry) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 22:54:49 +0100 Subject: Colors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > > /If ca ahmo (or with the //saltillo// accent ca amo) means NO, and if > paltic means COLORED, than there could be a possibility of negation. / > Its a matter of word classes. A'mo cannot combine in this form with other morphemes, its combinatorial version is a'- You might construct something like a'paltik (no idea whether this exists) but this doesn't necessarily mean "colorless". the root -pal- does not mean "color", it is related to wetness, (dark) clay and surfaces (rather with long vowel -pâl- ... I'd venture a connection to Proto UtoAztecan pa "water" and the suppletive Azetc form âl for "water", like in âltepêtl) tlapal-li is a *derivation* with the narrower meaning "paint, dye" âpaltik [vowel length, no saltillo] means "moist, watery" "ca" is a particle that to my knowledge does not combine with other morphemes (that's why it is called a "particle"), "ca a'mo" is a complete phrase which cannot be incorporated into another word. Even though it is nice to be able break down words into monosyllabic elements -- and in many cases you can do that in Nahuatl --- we shouldn't hunt for them at any cost. The number of CVC combinations is limited, so we should happily accept the existence of bisyllabic roots for basic vocabulary that can't be broken down further. /kamo'/ looks perfect as a root to me. And camote tastes good. melâwak welîk... yôtlân nitlahtowa, ma titlakwâkân Henry _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Thu Nov 5 23:02:31 2009 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 18:02:31 -0500 Subject: Colors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Quoting Baert Georges : > Camohpaltic, deep dark violet or purple. > I want to offer my apologies if I had present a seemingly very confusing > explanation of Camopaltic, the noun of a deep dark violet color. > But let me quote the statements of Michel Launey in his Introduccion a la > lengua Nahuatl, page 29, no7, about La particula ca, and the footnote no7: > Senalemos desde ahora la desaparicion casi total de ca en el conjunto de > dialectos modernos. Los lectores interesados sobre todo en la practica del > Nahuatl moderne deberan acostunbrase a ya no utilizarlo. Pero este termino > juega un papel fundamental en el Nahuatl classico. > And page 30, no9. Interrogacion y negacion: Amo sirve tambien de negacion, amo (o ca ahmo = NO). > If ca ahmo (or with the saltillo accent ca amo) means NO, and if paltic > means COLORED, than there could be a possibility of negation. I know that > the saltillo has changed of place, but is a contraction of the two syllables > together, ca and ahmo, not possible? After all it is the saltillo which has > changed of place and there is nothing wrong with ca-moh, CV-CVC (saltillo). > Yes camohpaltic is a noun, but it could also be a sentence, because > el > Nahuatl is often a very confusing language. > > Lahun Ik 62 > > Baert Georges > > Flanders Fields > > > > Georges, Once you have been inside Nahuatl long enough, you may realize that it is outstandingly uniform, perhaps unmatched in that regard. During my first week studying Nahuatl Joe Campbell said to me, and I paraphrase, "Nahuatl looks like an engineer from Mercedes-Benz put it together." I may not remember his words exactly, but I know what he meant. Looking around Native America, or the world for that matter, there's nothing that compares, as far I have seen, with the uniformity and predictability of Nahuatl syntax. In this connection, by offering the corrections of your ideas concerning "camohpaltic," John Sullivan, Henry Kammler, and I are simply saying that they don't work according to any known understanding of Nahuatl syntax (or phonology). Best wishes in your study of the language. It's good to have you aboard. Michael _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From magnuspharao at gmail.com Tue Nov 10 18:16:45 2009 From: magnuspharao at gmail.com (Magnus Pharao Hansen) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 12:16:45 -0600 Subject: nahuatl colors Message-ID: Hi Listeros Just wanted to chip in on the color topic, albeit a little belatedly. I have worked with color terminology studies in the past and done a small pilot survey in Hueyapan. I thought it would be worth it to mention that in fact the most interesting thing about Nahuatlo colourterminology is that according to the criteria of Paul Kay and Brent Berlin in their "Basic Color Terms" Nahuatl could be one of the only languages in the world *not *to have any true color terms! According to Berlin and Kay all languages have between two and eleven basic color terms, in a predictable order, i.e. if it has three it has black, white and red, if it has five it has those three plus yellow and either green or blue etc. What's interesting is that among the criteria is that a basic color term is not derived from anyother word - the term must be exclusively related to color. That means that e.g. "lemon" for lemon green is not a basic color term, but a secondary one. As you have probably noticed in Nahuatl all colorterms could be argued to be secondary (arguably not kostik and kapotstik, which are probably derived, but from words we don't know). The fact that Nahuatl doesn't have any roots (other than kapots- and kos- if we accept them) specficially and exclusively referring to color properties makes it a very special language. Oh and btw. one of my consultants from Hueyapan who is always good at making up folketymologies did translate kamohpaltik as "no está mojado". In Hueyapan the purple color is called simply kamohtik. Magnus Pharao Hansen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From susana at losrancheros.org Tue Nov 10 19:50:11 2009 From: susana at losrancheros.org (Susana Moraleda) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 20:50:11 +0100 Subject: Tloc, nahuac, tech, tlan Message-ID: I'm a bit confused on the uses of TLOC, NAHUAC, TECH and TLAN since they all have similar meanings. I've consulted Garibay, Sullivan and Horcasitas, but the differences are not clear. a.. TLOC and NAHUAC are synonyms and mean "junto a", "cerca de". b.. TECH means "en", "pegado o adherente a", "referente a". c.. (TI)TLAN means "en", "entre", "con", "junto a", "cerca de". And besides, Garibay says "sobre", while Sullivan says "debajo"!!! Are there any rules saying when to use which? Thanks for any thoughts. Susana -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Tue Nov 10 22:13:26 2009 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 17:13:26 -0500 Subject: Tloc, nahuac, tech, tlan In-Reply-To: <002d01ca623f$0844f8c0$d2e93697@susana> Message-ID: Quoting Susana Moraleda : > > > I'm a bit confused on the uses of TLOC, NAHUAC, TECH and TLAN since > they all have similar meanings. I've consulted Garibay, Sullivan and > Horcasitas, but the differences are not clear. > > a.. TLOC and NAHUAC are synonyms and mean "junto a", "cerca de". Hello, Susana, tloc = 'side' and therefore "nearness", e.g., motloc 'at your side' Nahuac = 'within hearing distance', e.g., calli inahuac 'near the house'; amonahuac = 'near you'. This is from /na:wa-/ 'audible, clear sound'. > b.. TECH means "en", "pegado o adherente a", "referente a". Yes, "tech" has to do with "contact" or a relation involving surfaces--contiguity, hence "side". It's also the way Nahuatl expresses "concerning" and you see it everywhere at the beginning of book chapters. So, motech 'in contact with you' as well as 'concerning you'. > c.. (TI)TLAN means "en", "entre", "con", "junto a", "cerca de". And > besides, Garibay says "sobre", while Sullivan says "debajo"!!! > Are there any rules saying when to use which? I would have to think about "sobre". Don't quite know what Garibay is getting at. What examples does he offer for "sobre"? Typically, "tlan" has to do with "underneath" stuff, but also "next to" stuff, and there are ambiguities, so context helps to understand this one. For example, "callan" can mean either "under the house" or "near the house"; xa:llan means 'under the sand'; a:tlan 'under the water'. At the same time, "motlan" means 'by your side'! tocaltitlan 'near our house' tlan can also go with body parts to create quite specific ideas of place: ami:xtlan = 'in front of you'; cuauhtzi:ntlan 'at the base of the tree' (cuahu(itl) + tzi:nt(tli) + -tlan. Some locative expressions only go with certain nouns. These locative expressions are a very interesting and productive aspect of Nahuatl, and one could spend a whole year just exploring them alone. I hope this little bit helps. Michael _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx Tue Nov 10 22:48:47 2009 From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 16:48:47 -0600 Subject: Tloc, nahuac, tech, tlan In-Reply-To: <002d01ca623f$0844f8c0$d2e93697@susana> Message-ID: Susana: As far as I can see, in early colonial central Mexican Nahuatl -tloc, -na:huac, -tech (preceded by the ligature -ti- when the noun it follows ends in a consonant), and -tlan (preceded by the ligature -ti- in place names) are postpositions; -tla:n (never with -ti-) is a locative suffix. Postpositions are like English prepositions in that they express relations (spatial, temporal, and other sorts), and have been labeled as such because of their similar function, and the fact that they are added to the end of nouns. Postpositions can also be added to possessive prefixes; the existence of examples where the latter happens is what distinguishes postpositions from locative or other sorts of suffixes. This is why -tla:n is usually labeled as a locative suffix: it’s not found stuck to a possessive prefix. To label a morpheme a “locative suffix” is a risky proposition, since if an example can be provided of it being attached to a possessive prefix, then we would be forced to move it to the category of postpositions. Colonial grammarians (Andrés de Olmos, Alonso Molina, Horacio Carochi, and others) called postpositions “preposiciones” in spite of their place and the end of words. The earliest use of the term “postposition” (or its cognates in French or Spanish) that I’ve seen is in the grammatical sketch by Siméon, published in 1885. Others have followed this practice, including Ángel María Garibay, Thelma Sullivan, Joe Campbell, and Frances Karttunen. Richard Andrews preferred to call them “relational suffixes” in 1975 and now prefers the phrase “relational NNC” (NNC = “nominal nuclear clause”). Lockhart calls them “relational words.” The classic example of postpositions behaving like nouns is the name of the Nahua deity Tloqueh Na:huaqueh, “owner of that which is together, owner of that which is near”, a ubiquitous, invisible being. Here the “postpositions”, exceptionally, come first, adding the singular possessive suffix -eh. The final c in both cases becomes qu because of a Spanish spelling convention, both being /k/. Alonso Molina’s Arte de la lengua mexicana y castellana (1571), chapter 6 (folios 74r-80v), has a good treatment of postpositions combined with possessive prefixes. An example is notlan (the first person singular possessive prefix no- plus the postposition -tlan). Rather than “my with” (which of course doesn’t make sense in English), notlan means “with me”. As for possible translations, I’ve compiled a list for each postposition (or in the case of -tla:n, locative suffix), putting together all of the possibilities I’ve found in a variety of colonial and modern sources. Since most of these are in Spanish, I’ll leave them in this language, to avoid the double distortion we would have if I were to translate them into English. Postpositions: -tloc al lado de/cerca de/con/junto a -na:huac (na:hua + (co - o)) al lado de/cerca de/con/en compañía de/en la vecindad de/junto a -tech a/adherido a/con/de/en/en contacto con/entre/incorporado a/junto a/sobre -tlan al lado de/cerca de/con/debajo de/en/en compañía de/en el interior de/entre/junto a Locative suffix: -tla:n con/en/entre/junto a/lugar de As you mentioned, there’s a lot of semantic overlap. I guess the next step would be to observe their use in early colonial texts to get a better grasp of how they were used. I hope this helps clear things up. Best wishes, David De: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org [mailto:nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org] En nombre de Susana Moraleda Enviado el: martes, 10 de noviembre de 2009 01:50 p.m. Para: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org Asunto: [Nahuat-l] Tloc, nahuac, tech, tlan I'm a bit confused on the uses of TLOC, NAHUAC, TECH and TLAN since they all have similar meanings. I've consulted Garibay, Sullivan and Horcasitas, but the differences are not clear. · TLOC and NAHUAC are synonyms and mean "junto a", "cerca de". · TECH means "en", "pegado o adherente a", "referente a". · (TI)TLAN means "en", "entre", "con", "junto a", "cerca de". And besides, Garibay says "sobre", while Sullivan says "debajo"!!! Are there any rules saying when to use which? Thanks for any thoughts. Susana -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Tue Nov 10 23:18:02 2009 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 18:18:02 -0500 Subject: Tloc, nahuac, tech, tlan In-Reply-To: <000001ca6257$ff4c7cc0$fde57640$@net.mx> Message-ID: Quoting David Wright : > Susana: > > > > As far as I can see, in early colonial central Mexican Nahuatl -tloc, > -na:huac, -tech (preceded by the ligature -ti- when the noun it follows ends > in a consonant), and -tlan (preceded by the ligature -ti- in place names) > are postpositions; -tla:n (never with -ti-) is a locative suffix. tla:n is usually seen place names. It's not that common otherwise. > Postpositions are like English prepositions in that they express relations > (spatial, temporal, and other sorts), and have been labeled as such because > of their similar function, and the fact that they are added to the end of > nouns. Postpositions can also be added to possessive prefixes; the existence > of examples where the latter happens is what distinguishes postpositions > from locative or other sorts of suffixes. This is why -tla:n is usually > labeled as a locative suffix: it’s not found stuck to a possessive prefix. > To label a morpheme a “locative suffix” is a risky proposition, since if an > example can be provided of it being attached to a possessive prefix, then we > would be forced to move it to the category of postpositions. > > > > Colonial grammarians (Andrés de Olmos, Alonso Molina, Horacio Carochi, and > others) called postpositions “preposiciones” in spite of their place and the > end of words. The earliest use of the term “postposition” (or its cognates > in French or Spanish) that I’ve seen is in the grammatical sketch by Siméon, > published in 1885. Others have followed this practice, including Ángel María > Garibay, Thelma Sullivan, Joe Campbell, and Frances Karttunen. Richard > Andrews preferred to call them “relational suffixes” in 1975 and now prefers > the phrase “relational NNC” (NNC = “nominal nuclear clause”). Lockhart calls > them “relational words.” > It's a convenience to refer to such entities as "postpositions". However, Andrews demonstrates that such a view is, as it puts it, "ethnocentric (or 'linguicentric')". This is of course one of Andrews' fortes, explaining Nahuatl from within rather from without (i.e., from a European language point of view. English grammar has suffered a somewhat similar fate in having been analyzed in the past through the lens of Latin grammar.) As Andrews explains, what we like to term "postpositions" for convenience sake are in truth noun stems "used to form adverbialized NNCs." This is not to say that we can't continue to call them "postpositions," but they are truly not postpositions. Michael > > > The classic example of postpositions behaving like nouns is the name of the > Nahua deity Tloqueh Na:huaqueh, “owner of that which is together, owner of > that which is near”, a ubiquitous, invisible being. Here the > “postpositions”, exceptionally, come first, adding the singular possessive > suffix -eh. The final c in both cases becomes qu because of a Spanish > spelling convention, both being /k/. > > > > Alonso Molina’s Arte de la lengua mexicana y castellana (1571), chapter 6 > (folios 74r-80v), has a good treatment of postpositions combined with > possessive prefixes. An example is notlan (the first person singular > possessive prefix no- plus the postposition -tlan). Rather than “my with” > (which of course doesn’t make sense in English), notlan means “with me”. > > > > As for possible translations, I’ve compiled a list for each postposition (or > in the case of -tla:n, locative suffix), putting together all of the > possibilities I’ve found in a variety of colonial and modern sources. Since > most of these are in Spanish, I’ll leave them in this language, to avoid the > double distortion we would have if I were to translate them into English. > > > > Postpositions: > > > > -tloc > > al lado de/cerca de/con/junto a > > > > -na:huac (na:hua + (co - o)) > > al lado de/cerca de/con/en compañía de/en la vecindad de/junto a > > > > -tech > > a/adherido a/con/de/en/en contacto con/entre/incorporado a/junto a/sobre > > > > -tlan > > al lado de/cerca de/con/debajo de/en/en compañía de/en el interior > de/entre/junto a > > > > Locative suffix: > > > > -tla:n > > con/en/entre/junto a/lugar de > > > > As you mentioned, there’s a lot of semantic overlap. I guess the next step > would be to observe their use in early colonial texts to get a better grasp > of how they were used. > > > > I hope this helps clear things up. > > > > Best wishes, > > > > David > > > > De: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org [mailto:nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org] > En nombre de Susana Moraleda > Enviado el: martes, 10 de noviembre de 2009 01:50 p.m. > Para: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > Asunto: [Nahuat-l] Tloc, nahuac, tech, tlan > > > > > > I'm a bit confused on the uses of TLOC, NAHUAC, TECH and TLAN since they all > have similar meanings. I've consulted Garibay, Sullivan and Horcasitas, but > the differences are not clear. > > · TLOC and NAHUAC are synonyms and mean "junto a", "cerca de". > > · TECH means "en", "pegado o adherente a", "referente a". > > · (TI)TLAN means "en", "entre", "con", "junto a", "cerca de". And > besides, Garibay says "sobre", while Sullivan says "debajo"!!! > > Are there any rules saying when to use which? > > > > Thanks for any thoughts. > > > > Susana > > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Tue Nov 10 23:32:30 2009 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 18:32:30 -0500 Subject: nahuatl colors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thank you, Magnus, for your message. Maybe, if Karen Dakin has the time, she could fill us in as what was happening color-wise in Proto-Uto-Aztecan. It would be interesting to see what underlies Nahuatl color creations. As an aside, I'm working on a paper having to do with the Illinois inanimate intransitive final /-alaantee-/ meaning 'colored', as we see in /iskipakalaantee-/ 'it is blue/green'; /oosaawalaantee-/ 'it is yellow colored'. This final can be traced to an ancient Illinois initial meaning *red*. Michael Quoting Magnus Pharao Hansen : > Hi Listeros > > Just wanted to chip in on the color topic, albeit a little belatedly. I have > worked with color terminology studies in the past and done a small pilot > survey in Hueyapan. I thought it would be worth it to mention that in fact > the most interesting thing about Nahuatlo colourterminology is that > according to the criteria of Paul Kay and Brent Berlin in their "Basic Color > Terms" Nahuatl could be one of the only languages in the world *not *to have > any true color terms! According to Berlin and Kay all languages have between > two and eleven basic color terms, in a predictable order, i.e. if it has > three it has black, white and red, if it has five it has those three plus > yellow and either green or blue etc. What's interesting is that among the > criteria is that a basic color term is not derived from anyother word - the > term must be exclusively related to color. That means that e.g. "lemon" for > lemon green is not a basic color term, but a secondary one. As you have > probably noticed in Nahuatl all colorterms could be argued to be secondary > (arguably not kostik and kapotstik, which are probably derived, but from > words we don't know). The fact that Nahuatl doesn't have any roots (other > than kapots- and kos- if we accept them) specficially and exclusively > referring to color properties makes it a very special language. > > Oh and btw. one of my consultants from Hueyapan who is always good at making > up folketymologies did translate kamohpaltik as "no está mojado". In > Hueyapan the purple color is called simply kamohtik. > > Magnus Pharao Hansen > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx Wed Nov 11 00:04:27 2009 From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 18:04:27 -0600 Subject: Tloc, nahuac, tech, tlan In-Reply-To: <20091110181802.2d727jhaasws0gso@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: Estimado Michael: Thanks for expanding on my minimal quote from Andrews. I agree with you about Andrews' approach but I hesitate to use it with my students, who are undergrad history students with little linguistic training beyond high school grammar. I use postposition ("posposición") because I think (or hope) they will catch the basic idea without getting a mental hernia, relating these morphemes to what are called "preposiciones" in their mother tongue, since both sets have a similar semantic function, while the pre-/post- contrast emphasizes their usual place within words. I was just checking to see what Michel Launey calls these morphemes, since I had excluded him from the list terms used by prominent grammarians through the centuries. On page 226 of his Introduction à la langue et à la littérature aztèques (1979), he calls them "suffixes locatifs" and adds that "sont en réalité une sorte de noms un peu particuliers, qui peuvent se mettre à la forme possédée, et qui, suffixés à des radicaux nominaux, forment des noms composés [...]." I haven't checked his thesis of 1986 yet to see if he maintained that terminology. Saludos, David -----Mensaje original----- De: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org [mailto:nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org] En nombre de Michael McCafferty Enviado el: martes, 10 de noviembre de 2009 05:18 p.m. Para: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org Asunto: Re: [Nahuat-l] Tloc, nahuac, tech, tlan [...] It's a convenience to refer to such entities as "postpositions". However, Andrews demonstrates that such a view is, as it puts it, "ethnocentric (or 'linguicentric')". This is of course one of Andrews' fortes, explaining Nahuatl from within rather from without (i.e., from a European language point of view. English grammar has suffered a somewhat similar fate in having been analyzed in the past through the lens of Latin grammar.) As Andrews explains, what we like to term "postpositions" for convenience sake are in truth noun stems "used to form adverbialized NNCs." This is not to say that we can't continue to call them "postpositions," but they are truly not postpositions. Michael _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Wed Nov 11 00:26:16 2009 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 19:26:16 -0500 Subject: Tloc, nahuac, tech, tlan In-Reply-To: <000b01ca6262$9a269fa0$ce73dee0$@net.mx> Message-ID: Quoting David Wright : > Estimado Michael: Good to hear from you, David. > > Thanks for expanding on my minimal quote from Andrews. I agree with you > about Andrews' approach but I hesitate to use it with my students, who are > undergrad history students with little linguistic training beyond high > school grammar. I use postposition ("posposición") because I think (or hope) > they will catch the basic idea without getting a mental hernia, relating > these morphemes to what are called "preposiciones" in their mother tongue, > since both sets have a similar semantic function, while the pre-/post- > contrast emphasizes their usual place within words. I understand what you're saying. Of course, I simply wanted to make sure that our listeros understand the actual syntactical situation for Nahuatl, for these "postpositions" are identified as such in quite respectable, modern books. This is fine, as you suggest, when it comes to teaching beginners. But for the many of the folks on this list who have advanced knowledge of the language, I think we need to use "postpositions" with a wink and a nod. > > I was just checking to see what Michel Launey calls these morphemes, since I > had excluded him from the list terms used by prominent grammarians through > the centuries. On page 226 of his Introduction à la langue et à la > littérature aztèques (1979), he calls them "suffixes locatifs" and adds that > "sont en réalité une sorte de noms un peu particuliers, qui peuvent se > mettre à la forme possédée, et qui, suffixés à des radicaux nominaux, > forment des noms composés [...]." I haven't checked his thesis of 1986 yet > to see if he maintained that terminology. It's difficult to know how far Launay saw into the language, in this particular regard, when he wrote his thesis or book. This is one reason I like to read Andrews, as he has been able to see deeply into the language. If one continues to chew on what Andrews says, one will come to realize that he's generally right in his analyses. His explication of "postpositions" is impressive. I wonder if his book is readable on the web. > Saludos, si, a cambio. Michael > > David > > -----Mensaje original----- > De: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org [mailto:nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org] > En nombre de Michael McCafferty > Enviado el: martes, 10 de noviembre de 2009 05:18 p.m. > Para: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > Asunto: Re: [Nahuat-l] Tloc, nahuac, tech, tlan > > [...] > > It's a convenience to refer to such entities as "postpositions". > However, Andrews demonstrates that such a view is, as it puts it, > "ethnocentric (or 'linguicentric')". > > This is of course one of Andrews' fortes, explaining Nahuatl from > within rather from without (i.e., from a European language point of > view. English grammar has suffered a somewhat similar fate in having > been analyzed in the past through the lens of Latin grammar.) > > As Andrews explains, what we like to term "postpositions" for > convenience sake are in truth noun stems "used to form adverbialized > NNCs." This is not to say that we can't continue to call them > "postpositions," but they are truly not postpositions. > > Michael > > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx Wed Nov 11 01:46:19 2009 From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 19:46:19 -0600 Subject: Tloc, nahuac, tech, tlan Message-ID: P.S. Launey, in his dissertation (1986: 756-864), calls postpositions (nod and wink) "autolocatifs", stating that while they have the syntactic properties of locatives, they are not locative suffixes. He goes on to describe their behavior in different contexts, giving examples from colonial sources, including precise references which make it easy to look them up. This explains why the term "autolocativos" is used in the Spanish version of Launey's grammar (1992: 219), while in the original text (1979: 226) he uses "suffixes locatifs" and "suffixes de noms de lieu", which had me puzzled about an hour ago. It looks like the translator was trying to bring his text up-to-date, using the dissertation. References Michel Launey, Introduction à la langue et à la littérature aztèques, tome 1 : grammaire, Paris, L'Harmattan, 1979 (reprint 1995). ______, Catégories et opérations dans la grammaire nahuatl, 2 vols., dissertation, Paris, Université de Paris IV, 1986 (digital facsimile in: Centre National de la Recherche Scientifique, http://www.vjf.cnrs.fr/celia/FichExt/Etudes/Launey/tm.htm; access: March 14, 2009). (Thanks to Michael Swanton for the link.) ______, Introducción a la lengua y a la literatura náhuatl, trad. Cristina Kraft, Mexico City, Instituto de Investigaciones Antropológicas, Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México, 1992. _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From idiez at me.com Thu Nov 12 02:25:08 2009 From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan, Ph.D.) Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 20:25:08 -0600 Subject: nahuatl colors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Piyali Magnus, But isnʻt that just the way Nahuatl is? How do you describe something in Nahuatl? You say that itʻs semblance is the result of having completed a certain action, i.e., chip:hua>chipa:huac or tetiya>tetic. And this last one is just an excuse for saying that it resembles some other noun. So there really arenʻt any adjectival roots in Nahuatl, except for maybe hueyi. "co:z-" isnʻt just for color. [first of all I need to remark that in Huastecan Nahuatl co:ztic has a long "o"]. "co:ztzin" is a type of corn, so co:ztic just means that something has come to resembled that kind of corn (in itʻs yellowness). And yes, there is the intermediate form co:ztiya, "for something to yellow". "co:cihui" means that a fruit is ripening and turning yellow (co:z [tli]-ihui). John John Sullivan, Ph.D. Professor of Nahua language and culture Universidad Autónoma de Zacatecas Zacatecas Institute of Teaching and Research in Ethnology Tacuba 152, int. 43 Centro Histórico Zacatecas, Zac. 98000 Mexico Work: +52 (492) 925-3415 Fax: +1 (858) 724-3030 (U.S.A.) Home: +52 (492) 768-6048 Mobile: +52 1 (492) 103-0195 idiez at me.com On Nov 10, 2009, at 12:16 PM, Magnus Pharao Hansen wrote: > Hi Listeros > > Just wanted to chip in on the color topic, albeit a little > belatedly. I have worked with color terminology studies in the past > and done a small pilot survey in Hueyapan. I thought it would be > worth it to mention that in fact the most interesting thing about > Nahuatlo colourterminology is that according to the criteria of Paul > Kay and Brent Berlin in their "Basic Color Terms" Nahuatl could be > one of the only languages in the world not to have any true color > terms! According to Berlin and Kay all languages have between two > and eleven basic color terms, in a predictable order, i.e. if it has > three it has black, white and red, if it has five it has those three > plus yellow and either green or blue etc. What's interesting is > that among the criteria is that a basic color term is not derived > from anyother word - the term must be exclusively related to color. > That means that e.g. "lemon" for lemon green is not a basic color > term, but a secondary one. As you have probably noticed in Nahuatl > all colorterms could be argued to be secondary (arguably not kostik > and kapotstik, which are probably derived, but from words we don't > know). The fact that Nahuatl doesn't have any roots (other than > kapots- and kos- if we accept them) specficially and exclusively > referring to color properties makes it a very special language. > > Oh and btw. one of my consultants from Hueyapan who is always good > at making up folketymologies did translate kamohpaltik as "no está > mojado". In Hueyapan the purple color is called simply kamohtik. > > Magnus Pharao Hansen > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From lahunik.62 at skynet.be Wed Nov 11 23:09:05 2009 From: lahunik.62 at skynet.be (lahunik.62 at skynet.be) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 00:09:05 +0100 Subject: Tloc, Nahuac and Tlan Message-ID: -TLOC and -NAHUAC: Near, beside, nearby, with. They are used frequently together. They are mostly used in a possessif formation. Tonahuac, near or beside us. Tlanahuac, nearby something. Cuahuitl inahuac, near a tree. Notloc xinemi, live with me. The suffix -pa can be used after -tloc. Notlocpa ximotlali, sit down nearby me. The honour titles are -nahuactzinco and -tloctzinco. Itloctzinco inahuactzinco ninemi in teuctli, I live beside the Lord. Nahuac can be used on a nominal stem. Nacalnahuac, nearby my house. A lot of toponymes are made this way. Cuauhnahuac, Cuernavaca (beside the trees) Anahuac, name of the valley of Mexico (beside the water). Tloc and nahuac, forming each a possessif noun, tloqueh nahuaqueh. -TLAN The suffix -tlan is exclusively used to form toponymes Tollan, the suffixe -tlan with assimilation (l + tl = ll). Lahun ik 62 Baert Georges Flanders Fields -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From lovegren at buffalo.edu Thu Nov 12 02:22:35 2009 From: lovegren at buffalo.edu (Jesse Lovegren) Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 21:22:35 -0500 Subject: Grammar/Wordlist for Michoacan Nahuatl Message-ID: Can anyone recommend to me any resources dealing specifically with Michoacan Nahuatl? -- Jesse Lovegren Department of Linguistics 645 Baldy Hall office +1 716 645 0136 cell +1 512 584 5468 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From magnuspharao at gmail.com Thu Nov 12 03:08:22 2009 From: magnuspharao at gmail.com (Magnus Pharao Hansen) Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 21:08:22 -0600 Subject: nahuatl colors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Ken otimosemilwitiwak, Dr. Sullivan It is true that that is how Nahuatl is. The interesting thing is that Nahuatl has apparently jettisoned most of the color vocabulary of proto-Uto-Aztecan to become that way (If I am not mistaken the only Nahuatl colour word that has a UA cognate is *ista*- which is cognate with PUA *tosa), and furthermore that that is a very uncommon way for languages to be cross linguistically. Kay and Berlins study shows that it is by far the most common in the worlds languages to have terms that are exclusive for color. Thanks for giving me the yellow corn word - I have always been wondering whether there wasn't such a word out there - in a way its very beautiful that nahuatl color terms are derived from food products in this way - Hueyapan also has ya:wik "color of blue maize (ya:witl)". Magnus 2009/11/11 John Sullivan, Ph.D. Piyali Magnus, > But isnʻt that just the way Nahuatl is? How do you describe something in > Nahuatl? You say that itʻs semblance is the result of having completed a > certain action, i.e., chip:hua>chipa:huac or tetiya>tetic. And this last one > is just an excuse for saying that it resembles some other noun. So there > really arenʻt any adjectival roots in Nahuatl, except for maybe hueyi. > "co:z-" isnʻt just for color. [first of all I need to remark that in > Huastecan Nahuatl co:ztic has a long "o"]. "co:ztzin" is a type of corn, so > co:ztic just means that something has come to resembled that kind of corn > (in itʻs yellowness). And yes, there is the intermediate form co:ztiya, "for > something to yellow". > "co:cihui" means that a fruit is ripening and turning yellow > (co:z[tli]-ihui). > John > > John Sullivan, Ph.D. > Professor of Nahua language and culture > Universidad Autónoma de Zacatecas > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Thu Nov 12 12:33:29 2009 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 07:33:29 -0500 Subject: nahuatl colors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Here are the coordinates for the Hill's paper on PUA colors: http://www.jstor.org/stable/30029256?cookieSet=1 Michael Quoting Magnus Pharao Hansen : > Ken otimosemilwitiwak, Dr. Sullivan > > It is true that that is how Nahuatl is. The interesting thing is that > Nahuatl has apparently jettisoned most of the color vocabulary of > proto-Uto-Aztecan to become that way (If I am not mistaken the only Nahuatl > colour word that has a UA cognate is *ista*- which is cognate with PUA > *tosa), and furthermore that that is a very uncommon way for languages to be > cross linguistically. Kay and Berlins study shows that it is by far the most > common in the worlds languages to have terms that are exclusive for color. > > Thanks for giving me the yellow corn word - I have always been wondering > whether there wasn't such a word out there - in a way its very beautiful > that nahuatl color terms are derived from food products in this way - > Hueyapan also has ya:wik "color of blue maize (ya:witl)". > > Magnus > > > 2009/11/11 John Sullivan, Ph.D. > > Piyali Magnus, >> But isn?t that just the way Nahuatl is? How do you describe something in >> Nahuatl? You say that it?s semblance is the result of having completed a >> certain action, i.e., chip:hua>chipa:huac or tetiya>tetic. And this last one >> is just an excuse for saying that it resembles some other noun. So there >> really aren?t any adjectival roots in Nahuatl, except for maybe hueyi. >> "co:z-" isn?t just for color. [first of all I need to remark that in >> Huastecan Nahuatl co:ztic has a long "o"]. "co:ztzin" is a type of corn, so >> co:ztic just means that something has come to resembled that kind of corn >> (in it?s yellowness). And yes, there is the intermediate form co:ztiya, "for >> something to yellow". >> "co:cihui" means that a fruit is ripening and turning yellow >> (co:z[tli]-ihui). >> John >> >> John Sullivan, Ph.D. >> Professor of Nahua language and culture >> Universidad Autónoma de Zacatecas >> > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From idiez at me.com Thu Nov 12 03:45:18 2009 From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan, Ph.D.) Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 21:45:18 -0600 Subject: Tloc, Nahuac and Tlan In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Piyali Baert, "-tla:n" with the long "a" forms place names. "-tlan" with the short "a" forms place names with the "-ti" ligature, It attaches directly to nouns stems or uses the ligature when it means "below, next to, amoung (Karttunen)" something. There are also some constructions referring to time/events, at least in Huastecan Nahuatl. Here are some examples (minus vowel length): -elchiquititlan, "next to s.o.s ribs" -nacaztlan, "to the side of s.o. (next to their ear)" -quechtlan, "s.o.ʻs throat" atitlan, "low land where water accumulates" ahuahcatlan, "deep water" -tzintlan, "the base of s.t." tlazoltitlan, "place where there is a lot of garbage" -nentlan, "place that s.o. is familiar with" zoquititlan, "a muddy place" tlazoquititlan, "place where it muddy all over" tlaltzintlan, "underground" And dealing with time: mecohtlan or mecohtitlan, "during carnavel (fiesta de los pintados)" ilhuititlan, "day of the dead" toquiztlan, "planting season" ahuaquiztlan or tlahuaquiztlan, "dry season" John John Sullivan, Ph.D. Professor of Nahua language and culture Universidad Autónoma de Zacatecas Zacatecas Institute of Teaching and Research in Ethnology Tacuba 152, int. 43 Centro Histórico Zacatecas, Zac. 98000 Mexico Work: +52 (492) 925-3415 Fax: +1 (858) 724-3030 (U.S.A.) Home: +52 (492) 768-6048 Mobile: +52 1 (492) 103-0195 idiez at me.com On Nov 11, 2009, at 5:09 PM, lahunik.62 at skynet.be wrote: > -TLOC and –NAHUAC: > Near, beside, nearby, with. > They are used frequently together. > They are mostly used in a possessif formation. > Tonahuac, near or beside us. > Tlanahuac, nearby something. > Cuahuitl inahuac, near a tree. > Notloc xinemi, live with me. > The suffix –pa can be used after –tloc. > Notlocpa ximotlali, sit down nearby me. > The honour titles are –nahuactzinco and –tloctzinco. > Itloctzinco inahuactzinco ninemi in teuctli, I live beside the Lord. > Nahuac can be used on a nominal stem. > Nacalnahuac, nearby my house. > A lot of toponymes are made this way. > Cuauhnahuac, Cuernavaca (beside the trees) > Anahuac, name of the valley of Mexico (beside the water). > Tloc and nahuac, forming each a possessif noun, tloqueh nahuaqueh. > -TLAN > The suffix –tlan is exclusively used to form toponymes > Tollan, the suffixe –tlan with assimilation (l + tl = ll). > Lahun ik 62 > Baert Georges > Flanders Fields > > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From magnuspharao at gmail.com Thu Nov 12 14:34:21 2009 From: magnuspharao at gmail.com (Magnus Pharao Hansen) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 08:34:21 -0600 Subject: nahuatl color terms Message-ID: Dear Dr. McCafferty and listeros I see several problems with the hills articles and I don' think it makes for a very reliable reconstruction. Why is teskatik glossed as blue and taken for cognate with texohtli? As far as I know teskatl (obsidian mirror) are black. Why is matlaltik glossed as green? As far as I know it refers to the blueish purple color of a bruise and came to taken on the meaning of green in some dialects through the common mesoamerican metaphor of crude/bruised > crude/green. They don't justify the notion that ne:xtik is a basic colorterm in Nahuatl - they don't even mention Berlin & kays distinction between basic and non basic terms or the problems that pose for the study of colorterms in any language. Also reconstructing *po as grey based on nahuatl pochektik which is clearly derived from poktli "smoke" and is not justified as being cognate with the other UA terms seems highly questionable. I noticed one clear cognate though: "pa" the nahuatl root for "color" seems to have originally meant "red" vis a vis the cognates in Cora and Hopi. The relation of red as the prototypical "color" is well known throughout the worlds languages e.g. in spanish "colorado". If someone wnts to read the best analysis of colors in Nahuatl, and UA and mesoamerica go for McLaurys Mesoamerican Color Terms. Magnus > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Michael McCafferty > To: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 07:33:29 -0500 > Subject: Re: [Nahuat-l] nahuatl colors > Here are the coordinates for the Hill's paper on PUA colors: > > http://www.jstor.org/stable/30029256?cookieSet=1 > > > Michael > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Thu Nov 12 15:10:14 2009 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 10:10:14 -0500 Subject: nahuatl color terms In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I'm not where I can discuss this now. I'm in class. But let me say that I read the article years ago, and simply supplied the web address for it. I ain't defending it in any way. :-) Quoting Magnus Pharao Hansen : > Dear Dr. McCafferty and listeros > > I see several problems with the hills articles and I don' think it makes for > a very reliable reconstruction. > > Why is teskatik glossed as blue and taken for cognate with texohtli? As far > as I know teskatl (obsidian mirror) are black. Why is matlaltik glossed as > green? As far as I know it refers to the blueish purple color of a bruise > and came to taken on the meaning of green in some dialects through the > common mesoamerican metaphor of crude/bruised > crude/green. They don't > justify the notion that ne:xtik is a basic colorterm in Nahuatl - they don't > even mention Berlin & kays distinction between basic and non basic terms or > the problems that pose for the study of colorterms in any language. Also > reconstructing *po as grey based on nahuatl pochektik which is clearly > derived from poktli "smoke" and is not justified as being cognate with the > other UA terms seems highly questionable. > > I noticed one clear cognate though: "pa" the nahuatl root for "color" seems > to have originally meant "red" vis a vis the cognates in Cora and Hopi. The > relation of red as the prototypical "color" is well known throughout the > worlds languages e.g. in spanish "colorado". If someone wnts to read the > best analysis of colors in Nahuatl, and UA and mesoamerica go for McLaurys > Mesoamerican Color Terms. > > > Magnus > > >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: Michael McCafferty >> To: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org >> Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 07:33:29 -0500 >> Subject: Re: [Nahuat-l] nahuatl colors >> Here are the coordinates for the Hill's paper on PUA colors: >> >> http://www.jstor.org/stable/30029256?cookieSet=1 >> >> >> Michael >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From campbel at indiana.edu Thu Nov 12 21:36:21 2009 From: campbel at indiana.edu (Campbell, R. Joe) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 16:36:21 -0500 Subject: Tloc, nahuac, tech, tlan In-Reply-To: <20091110192616.snzzsawqo0k0wgsk@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: Nocnihuan, The things we call "postpositions" or "relational nouns" obviously don't all follow the same distributional map, so I have put a rough one together. "Rough" means that I consider just a draft, so I won't mind having mistakes drawn to my attention. I include -nahuac in the list in spite of the fact that I know that it is really a noun with attached -c(o). Category 5 (occurs after a noun) has a neutral label in order to avoid calling fish or fowl (i.e., noun compound or noun suffix). Obviously, these categories hint strongly at the noun-like behavior of these objects of our attention, which goes in the opposite direction from their frequent spatial and temporal function in the language. As Arnie said, "I'll be back." Joe "postpositions" 1 takes a "verber" suffix 2 embeds in -yo(tl) 3 takes absolutive 4 takes a possessive prefix 5 occurs after a noun 6 embeds in -eh (e.g., tloqueh) [not included yet in the chart] x = yes 1 2 3 4 5 can x x x x co x x huan x x huic x x x ican x x nahuac x x x x x pa x ? pan x x x x x pampa x x x tech x x x x x tlan x x x x x tloc x x tzalan x x x x x _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Thu Nov 12 23:06:14 2009 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 18:06:14 -0500 Subject: nahuatl color terms In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Quoting Magnus Pharao Hansen : > > I noticed one clear cognate though: "pa" the nahuatl root for "color" seems > to have originally meant "red" vis a vis the cognates in Cora and Hopi. The > relation of red as the prototypical "color" is well known throughout the > worlds languages e.g. in spanish "colorado". If someone wnts to read the > best analysis of colors in Nahuatl, and UA and mesoamerica go for McLaurys > Mesoamerican Color Terms. > Thank you for mentioning these facts, Magnus, as they seems to dovetail with the reality in the Illinois language. Michael > > Magnus > > >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: Michael McCafferty >> To: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org >> Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 07:33:29 -0500 >> Subject: Re: [Nahuat-l] nahuatl colors >> Here are the coordinates for the Hill's paper on PUA colors: >> >> http://www.jstor.org/stable/30029256?cookieSet=1 >> >> >> Michael >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Thu Nov 12 23:18:25 2009 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 18:18:25 -0500 Subject: Tloc, nahuac, tech, tlan In-Reply-To: <20091112163621.11splo6s00co48sc@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: Jotzin, Thank you for putting this first "draught" together. This will nicely lay the foundation for a good look at these creatures. What struck me in about my first couple weeks of studying Nahuatl was the "nounal" ;-) character of "postpositions," particularly the way they could be possessed as well enter into composite terms as the head. I felt, "We aren't in Kansas anymore." As examples, here are just a few things that occurred to me as I write this message: tehuan ihuan nicnehuanilpia nohuampoh teihtic teixco tehuic teca teicpac tlapanco tloqueh tlancuaitl even: ayic etc... Tambien: Y mis listeros, aqui esta lo que me escribi Martin Mangei esta manana. Muy interesante. "To be honest, I think that Andrews' analysis of the relational nouns/prepositions/postpositions reveals rather one of his major shortcomings: the confusing and consequent intermixture and confusion of historical and synchronical facts. Yes, these words have emerged from nouns (as many prepositions do), yes they can be inflected in a way very similar to nouns (as prepositions can), and yes they seem to have emerged from some kind of adverbal use of nouns (as preposition often do). BUT: "preposition" doesn't name a historical development, it's rather a morphosyntactic term. Deciding whether a class of words can or should be termed "preposition", nothing but their morphological, perhaps their meaning/function and primarily their syntactic behaviour should be considered - which is quite simply preposition-like :) But there is another intresting question with regard to these words. Some of them can have relatively similar meanings. Do you know whether it is possible to tell whether such Rel.Nouns differ with regard to the nouns they 'govern'? Such that we could state rules like e.g.: "The suffix -c(o) expresses locative meaning with nouns like A, B, C etc., whereas the same meaning is expressed by means of the (quasi synonym) Rel.Noun -pan with nouns as D, E, F. etc" mmangei at gmx.de Michael Quoting "Campbell, R. Joe" : > Nocnihuan, > > The things we call "postpositions" or "relational nouns" obviously > don't all follow the same distributional map, so I have put a rough > one together. "Rough" means that I consider just a draft, so I won't > mind having mistakes drawn to my attention. > > I include -nahuac in the list in spite of the fact that I know that > it is really a noun with attached -c(o). > > Category 5 (occurs after a noun) has a neutral label in order to > avoid calling fish or fowl (i.e., noun compound or noun suffix). > > Obviously, these categories hint strongly at the noun-like behavior > of these objects of our attention, which goes in the opposite > direction from their frequent spatial and temporal function in the > language. > > As Arnie said, "I'll be back." > > Joe > > "postpositions" > > 1 takes a "verber" suffix > 2 embeds in -yo(tl) > 3 takes absolutive > 4 takes a possessive prefix > 5 occurs after a noun > 6 embeds in -eh (e.g., tloqueh) [not included yet in the chart] > > x = yes > > 1 2 3 4 5 > > can x x x x > > co x x > > huan x x > > huic x x x > > ican x x > > nahuac x x x x x > > pa x ? > > pan x x x x x > > pampa x x x > > tech x x x x x > > tlan x x x x x > > tloc x x > > tzalan x x x x x > > > > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx Thu Nov 12 23:42:26 2009 From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 17:42:26 -0600 Subject: Tloc, nahuac, tech, tlan In-Reply-To: <20091112163621.11splo6s00co48sc@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: Thanks for the distributional map, Joe. I just checked it against my table of postpositions and locative suffixes (Lectura del Nahuatl, pp. 87-94, currently in the process of expansion and revision for a second edition). In this table I use as the main criterion for classification your fourth column, that is whether or not these morphemes are found attached to a possessive prefix (if they are, they are classified as postpositions; if not, they are called locative suffixes). Most of the data are in harmony, except in two cases: 1. You list -can (which I assume to be /ca:n/) as taking a possessive prefix. I haven't found any examples of this, although I admit I haven't searched very hard. If I see examples, I'll have to move this morpheme from my list of locative suffixes to the "postposition" category. Can you give me a couple of examples, preferably with references to early colonial sources? (Modern sources won't do, because I'm focusing on central Mexican Nahuatl from 1521 to 1650.) I suppose your magic Nahuatl machine can make quick work of this. 2. You include -ican, which I don't have on my table in either category. The "x" in the fourth column means that it would be a postposition as I've defined this word. I just checked a stack of descriptive sources (Carochi, Lockhart, Andrews, Launey, Wolf, Karttunen, and Molina's Arte) and couldn't find this postposition, unless it's something one would see inside of -i:campa, "behind/beyond," after removing the locative suffix -pa. I would like to add this morpheme to the table, but to do so I would have to know where it is found, what it means and if it has any long vowels. Can you give me a hand with this? David -----Mensaje original----- De: Campbell, R. Joe [mailto:campbel at indiana.edu] Enviado el: jueves, 12 de noviembre de 2009 03:36 p.m. Para: Michael McCafferty CC: David Wright; nahuatl at lists.famsi.org Asunto: Re: [Nahuat-l] Tloc, nahuac, tech, tlan Nocnihuan, The things we call "postpositions" or "relational nouns" obviously don't all follow the same distributional map, so I have put a rough one together. "Rough" means that I consider just a draft, so I won't mind having mistakes drawn to my attention. I include -nahuac in the list in spite of the fact that I know that it is really a noun with attached -c(o). Category 5 (occurs after a noun) has a neutral label in order to avoid calling fish or fowl (i.e., noun compound or noun suffix). Obviously, these categories hint strongly at the noun-like behavior of these objects of our attention, which goes in the opposite direction from their frequent spatial and temporal function in the language. As Arnie said, "I'll be back." Joe "postpositions" 1 takes a "verber" suffix 2 embeds in -yo(tl) 3 takes absolutive 4 takes a possessive prefix 5 occurs after a noun 6 embeds in -eh (e.g., tloqueh) [not included yet in the chart] x = yes 1 2 3 4 5 can x x x x co x x huan x x huic x x x ican x x nahuac x x x x x pa x ? pan x x x x x pampa x x x tech x x x x x tlan x x x x x tloc x x tzalan x x x x x _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Fri Nov 13 01:05:01 2009 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 20:05:01 -0500 Subject: Tloc, nahuac, tech, tlan In-Reply-To: <000301ca63f1$d3a75ef0$7af61cd0$@net.mx> Message-ID: Quoting David Wright : > Thanks for the distributional map, Joe. I just checked it against my table > of postpositions and locative suffixes (Lectura del Nahuatl, pp. 87-94, > currently in the process of expansion and revision for a second edition). In > this table I use as the main criterion for classification your fourth > column, that is whether or not these morphemes are found attached to a > possessive prefix (if they are, they are classified as postpositions; if > not, they are called locative suffixes). Most of the data are in harmony, > except in two cases: > > 1. You list -can (which I assume to be /ca:n/) as taking a possessive > prefix. I haven't found any examples of this, although I admit I haven't > searched very hard. If I see examples, I'll have to move this morpheme from > my list of locative suffixes to the "postposition" category. Can you give me > a couple of examples, preferably with references to early colonial sources? > (Modern sources won't do, because I'm focusing on central Mexican Nahuatl > from 1521 to 1650.) I suppose your magic Nahuatl machine can make quick work > of this. David: I don't recall seeing /ca:n/ in, say, a simple possessed form such as *tocan but it does appear in *possessed* forms, e.g., ipeuhcan, itzinehcan, etc. Perhaps that is what Joe is getting at when he says "possessed". > > 2. You include -ican, which I don't have on my table in either category. The > "x" in the fourth column means that it would be a postposition as I've > defined this word. I just checked a stack of descriptive sources (Carochi, > Lockhart, Andrews, Launey, Wolf, Karttunen, and Molina's Arte) and couldn't > find this postposition, unless it's something one would see inside of > -i:campa, "behind/beyond," after removing the locative suffix -pa. I would > like to add this morpheme to the table, but to do so I would have to know > where it is found, what it means and if it has any long vowels. Can you give > me a hand with this? I would agree that this is -i:can-pa. Michael > > David > > -----Mensaje original----- > De: Campbell, R. Joe [mailto:campbel at indiana.edu] > Enviado el: jueves, 12 de noviembre de 2009 03:36 p.m. > Para: Michael McCafferty > CC: David Wright; nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > Asunto: Re: [Nahuat-l] Tloc, nahuac, tech, tlan > > Nocnihuan, > > The things we call "postpositions" or "relational nouns" obviously > don't all follow the same distributional map, so I have put a rough one > together. "Rough" means that I consider just a draft, so I won't mind > having mistakes drawn to my attention. > > I include -nahuac in the list in spite of the fact that I know that > it is really a noun with attached -c(o). > > Category 5 (occurs after a noun) has a neutral label in order to > avoid calling fish or fowl (i.e., noun compound or noun suffix). > > Obviously, these categories hint strongly at the noun-like behavior > of these objects of our attention, which goes in the opposite direction > from their frequent spatial and temporal function in the language. > > As Arnie said, "I'll be back." > > Joe > > "postpositions" > > 1 takes a "verber" suffix > 2 embeds in -yo(tl) > 3 takes absolutive > 4 takes a possessive prefix > 5 occurs after a noun > 6 embeds in -eh (e.g., tloqueh) [not included yet in the chart] > > x = yes > > 1 2 3 4 5 > > can x x x x > > co x x > > huan x x > > huic x x x > > ican x x > > nahuac x x x x x > > pa x ? > > pan x x x x x > > pampa x x x > > tech x x x x x > > tlan x x x x x > > tloc x x > > tzalan x x x x x > > > > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx Fri Nov 13 01:48:52 2009 From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 19:48:52 -0600 Subject: Tloc, nahuac, tech, tlan In-Reply-To: <20091112200501.uhyhpbjy8w48gk0c@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: Thanks, Michael. I see Molina (1571: II, 42r) gives "Ipeuhcan en el comienzo, o en el principio, o al principio". That looks like i:peuhca:n /i:pewka:n/ (i: + (pewa - a) + ka:n), 3rd person singular possessive prefix + verb: begin + postposition (?) where/in/in the time of/place of/by. So I guess I can call ca:n a postposition, based on the criteria of it appearing with a possessive prefix (and a verb!), although the example is not as clear as if we had a direct coupling of the prefix with ca:n. It is what it is, of course; the problem is fitting it into a somewhat arbitrary (but useful) classification scheme. -----Mensaje original----- De: Michael McCafferty [mailto:mmccaffe at indiana.edu] Enviado el: jueves, 12 de noviembre de 2009 07:05 p.m. Para: David Wright CC: 'Campbell, R. Joe'; nahuatl at lists.famsi.org Asunto: Re: [Nahuat-l] Tloc, nahuac, tech, tlan Quoting David Wright : > Thanks for the distributional map, Joe. I just checked it against my table > of postpositions and locative suffixes (Lectura del Nahuatl, pp. 87-94, > currently in the process of expansion and revision for a second edition). In > this table I use as the main criterion for classification your fourth > column, that is whether or not these morphemes are found attached to a > possessive prefix (if they are, they are classified as postpositions; if > not, they are called locative suffixes). Most of the data are in harmony, > except in two cases: > > 1. You list -can (which I assume to be /ca:n/) as taking a possessive > prefix. I haven't found any examples of this, although I admit I haven't > searched very hard. If I see examples, I'll have to move this morpheme from > my list of locative suffixes to the "postposition" category. Can you give me > a couple of examples, preferably with references to early colonial sources? > (Modern sources won't do, because I'm focusing on central Mexican Nahuatl > from 1521 to 1650.) I suppose your magic Nahuatl machine can make quick work > of this. David: I don't recall seeing /ca:n/ in, say, a simple possessed form such as *tocan but it does appear in *possessed* forms, e.g., ipeuhcan, itzinehcan, etc. Perhaps that is what Joe is getting at when he says "possessed". > > 2. You include -ican, which I don't have on my table in either category. The > "x" in the fourth column means that it would be a postposition as I've > defined this word. I just checked a stack of descriptive sources (Carochi, > Lockhart, Andrews, Launey, Wolf, Karttunen, and Molina's Arte) and couldn't > find this postposition, unless it's something one would see inside of > -i:campa, "behind/beyond," after removing the locative suffix -pa. I would > like to add this morpheme to the table, but to do so I would have to know > where it is found, what it means and if it has any long vowels. Can you give > me a hand with this? I would agree that this is -i:can-pa. Michael > > David > > -----Mensaje original----- > De: Campbell, R. Joe [mailto:campbel at indiana.edu] > Enviado el: jueves, 12 de noviembre de 2009 03:36 p.m. > Para: Michael McCafferty > CC: David Wright; nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > Asunto: Re: [Nahuat-l] Tloc, nahuac, tech, tlan > > Nocnihuan, > > The things we call "postpositions" or "relational nouns" obviously > don't all follow the same distributional map, so I have put a rough one > together. "Rough" means that I consider just a draft, so I won't mind > having mistakes drawn to my attention. > > I include -nahuac in the list in spite of the fact that I know that > it is really a noun with attached -c(o). > > Category 5 (occurs after a noun) has a neutral label in order to > avoid calling fish or fowl (i.e., noun compound or noun suffix). > > Obviously, these categories hint strongly at the noun-like behavior > of these objects of our attention, which goes in the opposite direction > from their frequent spatial and temporal function in the language. > > As Arnie said, "I'll be back." > > Joe > > "postpositions" > > 1 takes a "verber" suffix > 2 embeds in -yo(tl) > 3 takes absolutive > 4 takes a possessive prefix > 5 occurs after a noun > 6 embeds in -eh (e.g., tloqueh) [not included yet in the chart] > > x = yes > > 1 2 3 4 5 > > can x x x x > > co x x > > huan x x > > huic x x x > > ican x x > > nahuac x x x x x > > pa x ? > > pan x x x x x > > pampa x x x > > tech x x x x x > > tlan x x x x x > > tloc x x > > tzalan x x x x x > > > > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx Fri Nov 13 01:52:59 2009 From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 19:52:59 -0600 Subject: Tloc, nahuac, tech, tlan In-Reply-To: <20091112200501.uhyhpbjy8w48gk0c@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: Thanks, Michael. I see Molina (1571: II, 42r) gives "Ipeuhcan en el comienzo, o en el principio, o al principio". That looks like i:peuhca:n /i:pewka:n/ (i: + (pewa - a) + ka:n), 3rd person singular possessive prefix + verb: begin + postposition (?) where/in/in the time of/place of/by. So I guess I can call ca:n a postposition, based on the criteria of it appearing with a possessive prefix (and a verb!), although the example is not as clear as if we had a direct coupling of the prefix with ca:n. It is what it is, of course; the problem is fitting it into a somewhat arbitrary (but useful) classification scheme. -----Mensaje original----- De: Michael McCafferty [mailto:mmccaffe at indiana.edu] Enviado el: jueves, 12 de noviembre de 2009 07:05 p.m. Para: David Wright CC: 'Campbell, R. Joe'; nahuatl at lists.famsi.org Asunto: Re: [Nahuat-l] Tloc, nahuac, tech, tlan [...] David: I don't recall seeing /ca:n/ in, say, a simple possessed form such as *tocan but it does appear in *possessed* forms, e.g., ipeuhcan, itzinehcan, etc. Perhaps that is what Joe is getting at when he says "possessed". [...] _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx Fri Nov 13 02:04:57 2009 From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 20:04:57 -0600 Subject: Redundant posts Message-ID: Sorry for the repeat posts. They've been bouncing back to me in illegible form so I changed the character code settings to make sure the messages get through. _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Fri Nov 13 02:18:53 2009 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 21:18:53 -0500 Subject: Tloc, nahuac, tech, tlan In-Reply-To: <000201ca6404$079d3330$16d79990$@net.mx> Message-ID: Quoting David Wright : > Thanks, Michael. Sure, David. I see Molina (1571: II, 42r) gives "Ipeuhcan en el > comienzo, o en el principio, o al principio". That looks like i:peuhca:n > /i:pewka:n/ (i: + (pewa - a) + ka:n), 3rd person singular possessive prefix > + verb: begin + postposition (?) where/in/in the time of/place of/by. A better translation would be "en su principio, a su principio". That's also the basic meaning of "itzinehcan," where the i- is 3rd singular possessor prefix. So I > guess I can call ca:n a postposition, based on the criteria of it appearing > with a possessive prefix (and a verb!), although the example is not as clear > as if we had a direct coupling of the prefix with ca:n. It is what it is, of > course; the problem is fitting it into a somewhat arbitrary (but useful) > classification scheme. I think a classification (albeit predictably huge) according to Martin's idea would be great: "But there is another intresting question with regard to these words. Some of them can have relatively similar meanings. Do you know whether it is possible to tell whether such Rel.Nouns differ with regard to the nouns they 'govern'? Such that we could state rules like e.g.: "The suffix -c(o) expresses locative meaning with nouns like A, B, C etc., whereas the same meaning is expressed by means of the (quasi synonym) Rel.Noun -pan with nouns as D, E, F. etc." Michael > > -----Mensaje original----- > De: Michael McCafferty [mailto:mmccaffe at indiana.edu] Enviado el: jueves, 12 > de noviembre de 2009 07:05 p.m. > Para: David Wright > CC: 'Campbell, R. Joe'; nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > Asunto: Re: [Nahuat-l] Tloc, nahuac, tech, tlan > > [...] > > David: > > I don't recall seeing /ca:n/ in, say, a simple possessed form such as *tocan > but it does appear in *possessed* forms, e.g., ipeuhcan, itzinehcan, etc. > Perhaps that is what Joe is getting at when he says "possessed". > > [...] > > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From campbel at indiana.edu Fri Nov 13 04:49:25 2009 From: campbel at indiana.edu (Campbell, R. Joe) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 23:49:25 -0500 Subject: Tloc, nahuac, tech, tlan In-Reply-To: <000301ca63f1$d3a75ef0$7af61cd0$@net.mx> Message-ID: David ihuan occequi nocnihuan, > 1. You list -can (which I assume to be /ca:n/) as taking a possessive > prefix. I haven't found any examples of this, although I admit I haven't > searched very hard. If I see examples, I'll have to move this morpheme from > my list of locative suffixes to the "postposition" category. Can you give me > a couple of examples, preferably with references to early colonial sources? > (Modern sources won't do, because I'm focusing on central Mexican Nahuatl > from 1521 to 1650.) I suppose your magic Nahuatl machine can make quick work > of this. > This is an example of sloppy matrix construction and eagle-eyed reading!! Thank you, David, for catching the error. I can't say it won't happen again because it probably will. I will get back to the issue (and I don't mean "problem", as many mod speakers do nowadays) when I gather my data. > 2. You include -ican, which I don't have on my table in either category. The > "x" in the fourth column means that it would be a postposition as I've > defined this word. I just checked a stack of descriptive sources (Carochi, > Lockhart, Andrews, Launey, Wolf, Karttunen, and Molina's Arte) and couldn't > find this postposition, unless it's something one would see inside of > -i:campa, "behind/beyond," after removing the locative suffix -pa. I would > like to add this morpheme to the table, but to do so I would have to know > where it is found, what it means and if it has any long vowels. Can you give > me a hand with this? > > David > I try to be extremely careful about vowel length in the notation of morphemes in the data, but I am sloppy in discussion. "i:can" has a long vowel. Andrews has it in the glossary of his first edition and Fran has "i:campa", which I think is reasonable for the bulk of the data. There are some items which motivate separating i:can and pa and I have included them in the list below. "niteicanihtoa" is one of them -- I gossip about someone, I mention someone behind his back. But "tlaicanhuiani" is my favorite, probably because of a personal memory. When I first met a very good friend of mine (a native speaker of Nahuatl), we walked along talking about Nahuatl stuff and I mentioned the word "nimitztoca" (I follow you) and he said that that wasn't how to say it. He said (in my iconic memory moment), "nimitzicanhuia" ('I provide you with "ican" [behind]). I didn't expect this to show up in the 16th century, since I considered it a later dynamic development in Nahuatl, but since "tlaicanhuiani" *does* appear, why are there not other similar forms? All the best, Joe *i:can *** campa =tepetl i. allende la sierra. . 71m1-2| cemicampa. . . b.4 f.7 p.63| icampa. . . b.2 f.3 p.76| icampa. alas espaldas, o detras del; detras de algo. . 71m2-6| icampa , [i]-. behind him. . b.5 f.2 p.179| icampa , i-. behind him. . b.11 f.13 p.137| icampa , im-. behind them. . b.2 f.1 p.50| icampa , m[o]-. behind you. . b.1 f.1 p.27| icampa , te-. behind others. . b.4 f.7 p.67| icampa =n. detras de mi. . 71m1-8| icampa =no= [scribal error: note nicampa analysed as ni-icampa instead of n[o]-icampa: 71m2]. detras de mi. . 71m2-6| icampa =te. detras de alguno; o ensu ausencia. . 71m1- 8| icampa =te=. detras de algunos. . 71m2-6| icampa =tepetl. allende la sierra; o detras dela sierra. . 55m-00| icampa =tla. allende la sierra; atras; detras de algo; allende los montes; sierras; o puertos; tras. preposicion. . 55m- 00| icampa =to. detras de nosotros, o alas espaldas; hazia tras; trasera parte; traspera parte. . 71m2-19| icampa. behind her; behind him; behind his back; behind it. . b.2 f.7 p.120| icampahuetz =o. descargado assi (assi is descargarse de algun oficio). . 55m-5| icampahuetzi =n. descargarse de algun oficio. . 55m-5| icampahuihtiuh =te. zabullidor. . 71m1-6| icampayotl =tla. cosa de allende los montes, o sierras; parte trasera; trasera cosa. . 71m2-21| icanhuiani =tla. el que va tras otros, acompa¤ando los. . 71m2-21| icanihtoa =nite. murmurar. . 71m1-16| icanihtoa =nite=oniteicanito. murmurar delos ausentes. . 71m2-6| icanihtoani =te. murmurador. . 71m2-16| icanihtoh =te. murmurador. . 71m2-16| icanihtoliztli =te. murmuracion. . 71m2-16| ihcuilolli =icampa tla. escriptura enlas espaldas; escriptura en las espaldas. . 55m-8| ihcuilolli =tlaicampa tla. escriptura enlas espaldas; escriptura en las espaldas. . 55m-8| teicanihtoa =nite=oniteteicanito. detraer, o murmurar de otros. . 71m2-16| tepetl =icampa in. desotra parte de la sierra; dela otra parte dela sierra; tras la sierra. . 71m1- 8| tlachia =nicampa ni. mirar atras. . 55m-14| tlahcuilolli =icampa. escriptura en las espaldas dela carta o libro. . 71m2-6| tlaza =nicampa nic. echar hazia tras; echar algo haziatras. . 55m-7| count 74 _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mwswanton at yahoo.com Fri Nov 13 04:53:36 2009 From: mwswanton at yahoo.com (Michael Swanton) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 20:53:36 -0800 Subject: Tloc, nahuac, tech, tlan In-Reply-To: <20091110181802.2d727jhaasws0gso@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: One linguistic phenomena being discussed here--certain stems that behave as nouns with regard to inflection but are always (or almost always) oblique arguments--seems to be quite common in Mesoamerican languages. Among linguists working in Mesoamerica, the term "relational noun" is frequently used to refer to this. I believe this usage originated among Mayanists. --- On Tue, 11/10/09, Michael McCafferty wrote: From: Michael McCafferty Subject: Re: [Nahuat-l] Tloc, nahuac, tech, tlan To: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 6:18 PM Quoting David Wright : > Susana: > > > > As far as I can see, in early colonial central Mexican Nahuatl -tloc, > -na:huac, -tech (preceded by the ligature -ti- when the noun it follows ends > in a consonant), and -tlan (preceded by the ligature -ti- in place names) > are postpositions; -tla:n (never with -ti-) is a locative suffix. tla:n is usually seen place names. It's not that common otherwise. > Postpositions are like English prepositions in that they express relations > (spatial, temporal, and other sorts), and have been labeled as such because > of their similar function, and the fact that they are added to the end of > nouns. Postpositions can also be added to possessive prefixes; the existence > of examples where the latter happens is what distinguishes postpositions > from locative or other sorts of suffixes. This is why -tla:n is usually > labeled as a locative suffix: it’s not found stuck to a possessive prefix. > To label a morpheme a “locative suffix” is a risky proposition, since if an > example can be provided of it being attached to a possessive prefix, then we > would be forced to move it to the category of postpositions. > > > > Colonial grammarians (Andrés de Olmos, Alonso Molina, Horacio Carochi, and > others) called postpositions “preposiciones” in spite of their place and the > end of words. The earliest use of the term “postposition” (or its cognates > in French or Spanish) that I’ve seen is in the grammatical sketch by Siméon, > published in 1885. Others have followed this practice, including Ángel María > Garibay, Thelma Sullivan, Joe Campbell, and Frances Karttunen. Richard > Andrews preferred to call them “relational suffixes” in 1975 and now prefers > the phrase “relational NNC” (NNC = “nominal nuclear clause”). Lockhart calls > them “relational words.” > It's a convenience to refer to such entities as "postpositions". However, Andrews demonstrates that such a view is, as it puts it, "ethnocentric (or 'linguicentric')". This is of course one of Andrews' fortes, explaining Nahuatl from within rather from without (i.e., from a European language point of view. English grammar has suffered a somewhat similar fate in having been analyzed in the past through the lens of Latin grammar.) As Andrews explains, what we like to term "postpositions" for convenience sake are in truth noun stems "used to form adverbialized NNCs." This is not to say that we can't continue to call them "postpositions," but they are truly not postpositions. Michael > > > The classic example of postpositions behaving like nouns is the name of the > Nahua deity Tloqueh Na:huaqueh, “owner of that which is together, owner of > that which is near”, a ubiquitous, invisible being. Here the > “postpositions”, exceptionally, come first, adding the singular possessive > suffix -eh. The final c in both cases becomes qu because of a Spanish > spelling convention, both being /k/. > > > > Alonso Molina’s Arte de la lengua mexicana y castellana (1571), chapter 6 > (folios 74r-80v), has a good treatment of postpositions combined with > possessive prefixes. An example is notlan (the first person singular > possessive prefix no- plus the postposition -tlan). Rather than “my with” > (which of course doesn’t make sense in English), notlan means “with me”. > > > > As for possible translations, I’ve compiled a list for each postposition (or > in the case of -tla:n, locative suffix), putting together all of the > possibilities I’ve found in a variety of colonial and modern sources. Since > most of these are in Spanish, I’ll leave them in this language, to avoid the > double distortion we would have if I were to translate them into English. > > > > Postpositions: > > > > -tloc > > al lado de/cerca de/con/junto a > > > > -na:huac (na:hua + (co - o)) > > al lado de/cerca de/con/en compañía de/en la vecindad de/junto a > > > > -tech > > a/adherido a/con/de/en/en contacto con/entre/incorporado a/junto a/sobre > > > > -tlan > > al lado de/cerca de/con/debajo de/en/en compañía de/en el interior > de/entre/junto a > > > > Locative suffix: > > > > -tla:n > > con/en/entre/junto a/lugar de > > > > As you mentioned, there’s a lot of semantic overlap. I guess the next step > would be to observe their use in early colonial texts to get a better grasp > of how they were used. > > > > I hope this helps clear things up. > > > > Best wishes, > > > > David > > > > De: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org [mailto:nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org] > En nombre de Susana Moraleda > Enviado el: martes, 10 de noviembre de 2009 01:50 p.m. > Para: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > Asunto: [Nahuat-l] Tloc, nahuac, tech, tlan > > > > > > I'm a bit confused on the uses of TLOC, NAHUAC, TECH and TLAN since they all > have similar meanings.  I've consulted Garibay, Sullivan and Horcasitas, but > the differences are not clear. > > ·         TLOC and NAHUAC are synonyms and mean "junto a", "cerca de". > > ·         TECH means "en", "pegado o adherente a", "referente a". > > ·         (TI)TLAN means "en", "entre", "con", "junto a", "cerca de". And > besides, Garibay says "sobre", while Sullivan says "debajo"!!! > > Are there any rules saying when to use which? > > > > Thanks for any thoughts. > > > > Susana > > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mwswanton at yahoo.com Fri Nov 13 05:54:14 2009 From: mwswanton at yahoo.com (Michael Swanton) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 21:54:14 -0800 Subject: nahuatl colors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Magnus, I do not believe B&K state that BCTs cannot be derived from any other word. Rather they say that BCTs must be monolexemic and therefore not predictable from the meanings of their parts. Under this criterion they exclude “lemon-colored” as a BTC, but not “orange”. Regards, Mike --- On Tue, 11/10/09, Magnus Pharao Hansen wrote: From: Magnus Pharao Hansen Subject: [Nahuat-l] nahuatl colors To: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 1:16 PM Hi Listeros Just wanted to chip in on the color topic, albeit a little belatedly. I have worked with color terminology studies in the past and done a small pilot survey in Hueyapan. I thought it would be worth it to mention that in fact the most interesting thing about Nahuatlo colourterminology is that according to the criteria of Paul Kay and Brent Berlin in their "Basic Color Terms" Nahuatl could be one of the only languages in the world not to have any true color terms! According to Berlin and Kay all languages have between two and eleven basic color terms, in a predictable order, i.e. if it has three it has black, white and red, if it has five it has those three plus yellow and either green or blue etc.  What's interesting is that among the criteria is that a basic color term is not derived from anyother word - the term must be exclusively related to color. That means that e.g. "lemon" for lemon green is not a basic color term, but a secondary one. As you have probably noticed in Nahuatl all colorterms could be argued to be secondary (arguably not kostik and kapotstik, which are probably derived, but from words we don't know). The fact that Nahuatl doesn't have any roots (other than kapots- and kos- if we accept them) specficially and exclusively referring to color properties makes it a very special language. Oh and btw. one of my consultants from Hueyapan who is always good at making up folketymologies did translate kamohpaltik as "no está mojado". In Hueyapan the purple color is called simply kamohtik. Magnus Pharao Hansen -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From idiez at me.com Fri Nov 13 04:07:58 2009 From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan, Ph.D.) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 22:07:58 -0600 Subject: oncahuia, excahuia. Message-ID: Piyali Listeros, In Modern Huastecan Nahuatl "oncahuia" means "for two people to approach or gang up on s.o." and "excahuia" means "for three people to approach of gang up on s.o." Assuming this is the "-huia" suffix that forms transitive verbs from a noun root, meaning "to use, apply or produce the embedded noun with respect to s.o. or s.t., it looks like "onca-" and "exca-" are being treated as nouns. We know that "onca-" has "ome", "two", and "exca-" has "eyi", "three". So what is the "- ca"? We also have "nechcahuia", "to approach s.o. or s.t.", and this comes from "nechca", "close, near". Andrews would say that this is the relational "-ca", used for "nechca" and "huehca", meaning "interval of space". It would seem that the "-ca" of "oncahuia" and "excahuia" would either be this relational morpheme of "interval", or perhaps it could be the "-ca" that allows us to add things to preterite agentives. So does this mean that Nahuatl numbers have a verbal origin? John _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx Fri Nov 13 15:10:32 2009 From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright) Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 09:10:32 -0600 Subject: Tloc, nahuac, tech, tlan In-Reply-To: <20091112234925.4vxd8mdj6ec0oc4w@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: Te:machtia:ni, tlazohca:mati. -----Mensaje original----- De: Campbell, R. Joe [mailto:campbel at indiana.edu] Enviado el: jueves, 12 de noviembre de 2009 10:49 p.m. Para: David Wright CC: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org Asunto: RE: [Nahuat-l] Tloc, nahuac, tech, tlan David ihuan occequi nocnihuan, > 1. You list -can (which I assume to be /ca:n/) as taking a possessive > prefix. I haven't found any examples of this, although I admit I haven't > searched very hard. If I see examples, I'll have to move this morpheme from > my list of locative suffixes to the "postposition" category. Can you give me > a couple of examples, preferably with references to early colonial sources? > (Modern sources won't do, because I'm focusing on central Mexican Nahuatl > from 1521 to 1650.) I suppose your magic Nahuatl machine can make quick work > of this. > This is an example of sloppy matrix construction and eagle-eyed reading!! Thank you, David, for catching the error. I can't say it won't happen again because it probably will. I will get back to the issue (and I don't mean "problem", as many mod speakers do nowadays) when I gather my data. > 2. You include -ican, which I don't have on my table in either category. The > "x" in the fourth column means that it would be a postposition as I've > defined this word. I just checked a stack of descriptive sources (Carochi, > Lockhart, Andrews, Launey, Wolf, Karttunen, and Molina's Arte) and couldn't > find this postposition, unless it's something one would see inside of > -i:campa, "behind/beyond," after removing the locative suffix -pa. I would > like to add this morpheme to the table, but to do so I would have to know > where it is found, what it means and if it has any long vowels. Can you give > me a hand with this? > > David > I try to be extremely careful about vowel length in the notation of morphemes in the data, but I am sloppy in discussion. "i:can" has a long vowel. Andrews has it in the glossary of his first edition and Fran has "i:campa", which I think is reasonable for the bulk of the data. There are some items which motivate separating i:can and pa and I have included them in the list below. "niteicanihtoa" is one of them -- I gossip about someone, I mention someone behind his back. But "tlaicanhuiani" is my favorite, probably because of a personal memory. When I first met a very good friend of mine (a native speaker of Nahuatl), we walked along talking about Nahuatl stuff and I mentioned the word "nimitztoca" (I follow you) and he said that that wasn't how to say it. He said (in my iconic memory moment), "nimitzicanhuia" ('I provide you with "ican" [behind]). I didn't expect this to show up in the 16th century, since I considered it a later dynamic development in Nahuatl, but since "tlaicanhuiani" *does* appear, why are there not other similar forms? All the best, Joe *i:can *** campa =tepetl i. allende la sierra. . 71m1-2| cemicampa. . . b.4 f.7 p.63| icampa. . . b.2 f.3 p.76| icampa. alas espaldas, o detras del; detras de algo. . 71m2-6| icampa , [i]-. behind him. . b.5 f.2 p.179| icampa , i-. behind him. . b.11 f.13 p.137| icampa , im-. behind them. . b.2 f.1 p.50| icampa , m[o]-. behind you. . b.1 f.1 p.27| icampa , te-. behind others. . b.4 f.7 p.67| icampa =n. detras de mi. . 71m1-8| icampa =no= [scribal error: note nicampa analysed as ni-icampa instead of n[o]-icampa: 71m2]. detras de mi. . 71m2-6| icampa =te. detras de alguno; o ensu ausencia. . 71m1- 8| icampa =te=. detras de algunos. . 71m2-6| icampa =tepetl. allende la sierra; o detras dela sierra. . 55m-00| icampa =tla. allende la sierra; atras; detras de algo; allende los montes; sierras; o puertos; tras. preposicion. . 55m- 00| icampa =to. detras de nosotros, o alas espaldas; hazia tras; trasera parte; traspera parte. . 71m2-19| icampa. behind her; behind him; behind his back; behind it. . b.2 f.7 p.120| icampahuetz =o. descargado assi (assi is descargarse de algun oficio). . 55m-5| icampahuetzi =n. descargarse de algun oficio. . 55m-5| icampahuihtiuh =te. zabullidor. . 71m1-6| icampayotl =tla. cosa de allende los montes, o sierras; parte trasera; trasera cosa. . 71m2-21| icanhuiani =tla. el que va tras otros, acompa¤ando los. . 71m2-21| icanihtoa =nite. murmurar. . 71m1-16| icanihtoa =nite=oniteicanito. murmurar delos ausentes. . 71m2-6| icanihtoani =te. murmurador. . 71m2-16| icanihtoh =te. murmurador. . 71m2-16| icanihtoliztli =te. murmuracion. . 71m2-16| ihcuilolli =icampa tla. escriptura enlas espaldas; escriptura en las espaldas. . 55m-8| ihcuilolli =tlaicampa tla. escriptura enlas espaldas; escriptura en las espaldas. . 55m-8| teicanihtoa =nite=oniteteicanito. detraer, o murmurar de otros. . 71m2-16| tepetl =icampa in. desotra parte de la sierra; dela otra parte dela sierra; tras la sierra. . 71m1- 8| tlachia =nicampa ni. mirar atras. . 55m-14| tlahcuilolli =icampa. escriptura en las espaldas dela carta o libro. . 71m2-6| tlaza =nicampa nic. echar hazia tras; echar algo haziatras. . 55m-7| count 74 _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From campbel at indiana.edu Fri Nov 13 19:03:12 2009 From: campbel at indiana.edu (Campbell, R. Joe) Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 14:03:12 -0500 Subject: Tloc, nahuac, tech, tlan In-Reply-To: <001501ca6473$72f9a360$58ecea20$@net.mx> Message-ID: To get back to status of -ca:n occurring in the possessed form (like ihuan, itech, ihuic, etc.), that "x" just jumped into the matrix on me. |8-) I'm sending of list of some "poss + pret-verb + ca:n" constructions. Some of the repetitions are due to repetitions in the sources. Some of them may be due to my stripping off possessive prefixes and indexing the forms in both places. Joe canahuacan =to. las sienes. [poss-cana:hua-ca:n] 71m2-25. canahuacan =to. sienes parte dela cabeza. [poss-cana:hua-ca:n] 71m1- 19. canahuacan =to. sienes parte dela cabeza. [poss-cana:hua-ca:n] 55m- 18. cocohpozteccan =to. la nuez dela garganta. [poss-co:cohtli-poztequi- ca:n] 71m2-25. cuacacalaccan =to. la calua o las entradas dela frente. [poss-cua:itl- dupl-calaqui-prt1-ca:n] 71m2-26. cuecuelpachiuhcan =to. los hijares. [poss-dupl-cue:lli-pachihui-prt1- ca:n] 71m2-25. cuecuelpachiuhcan =to. yjares. [poss-dupl-cue:lli-pachihui-prt1-ca:n] 71m1-13. cuecuelpachiuhcan =to. yjares. [poss-dupl-cue:lli-pachihui-prt1-ca:n] 55m-11. cuelpachiuhcan =to. hijada. [poss-cue:lli-pachihui-prt1-ca:n] 71m1- 13. cuelpachiuhcan =to. los hijares o la hijada parte del cuerpo. [poss- cue:lli-pachihui-prt1-ca:n] 71m2-25. cuelpachiuhcan =to. yjada parte del cuerpo. [poss-cue:lli-pachihui- prt1-ca:n] 55m-11. cuelpachiuhcan =to. yjada, parte del cuerpo. [poss-cue:lli-pachihui- prt1-ca:n] 71m1-13. icanahuacan. his temples. [poss-cana:hua-ca:n] FC. icanahuacan. on his temples. [poss-cana:hua-ca:n] FC. icanahuacan. on the side of its head. [poss-cana:hua-ca:n] FC. icanahuacan. on the sides of its head. [poss-cana:hua-ca:n] FC. iciauhca. place of fatigue. [poss-ciahui1-ca:n] FC. iciauhcan. place of someone's fatigue. [poss-ciahui1-prt1-ca:n] FC. iciauhcan. place of weariness. [poss-ciahui1-prt1-ca:n] FC. icuapitzahuacan. its tip. [poss-cua:itl-pitza:hua-ca:n] FC. iixhuacan. its sprouting place. [poss-ixhua-ca:n] FC. imo[i]lpilican. its binding place. [poss-p54-ilpia:-ben-ca:n] FC. incanahuacan. on their temples. [poss-cana:hua-ca:n] FC. incanahuacan. their temples. [poss-cana:hua-ca:n] FC. inelhuayocan. the place of its roots. [poss-nelhuatl-yo:tl1-ca:n] FC. inquizcan. their native land. [poss-qui:za-prt1-ca:n] FC. inyolcan. their native land. [poss-yo:lli-v13=0-prt1-ca:n] FC. ipeuhcan. its beginning. [poss-pe:hua-prt1-ca:n] FC. iteohpouhcan. place of his affliction. [poss-teo:tl--ca:n] FC. iteopouhca. place of his affliction. [poss-teo:tl-po:hua2-prt1-ca:n +del.n] FC. iteopouhcan. his place of affliction. [poss-teo:tl-po:hua2-prt1-ca:n] FC. iteopouhcan. place of his affliction. [poss-teo:tl-po:hua2-prt1-ca:n] FC. itetecuitzauhca. its asperous place. [poss-dupl-tecui:ni-tza-l2-v03b- prt1-ca:n +del.n] FC. itoneuhcan. . [poss-to:ne:hua-ca:n] FC. itzmolincan =xocomecatl i. yema de vid. [xocotl-mecatl poss-itzmoli:ni- prt1-ca:n +poss.phr] 71m1-13. itzmolincan =xocomecatl i. yema de vid. [xocotl-mecatl poss-itzmoli:ni- prt1-ca:n +poss.phr] 55m-11. ixxoxomoliuhcan =to. los lagrimales. [poss-i:xtli-dupl-xomolli-v03a- prt1-ca:n] 71m2-19. mamacauhcan in tlaximalli =i. espacio de entre viga y viga en lo que esta maderado. [poss-dupl-ma:itl-ca:hui-caus09-ca:n in p51-xi:ma- l1] 71m2-7. mochialoca. your place for waiting, for holding vigil. [poss-chiya- lo:2-ca:n +del.n] FC. mo[i]cnochialoca. your humble waiting place. [poss-icno:tl-chiya-lo:2- ca:n +del.n] FC. nenehuixca =ahcan te. cosa que no tiene par o ygual. [ah1-ca:n poss- dupl-nehui-prt1-ca:5] 71m2-1. nenehuixca =ahcan te. no tener par ni^ygual. [ah1-ca:n poss-dupl-nehui- prt1-ca:5] 71m1-16. peuhcan =i. enel comienzo, o enel principio, o al principio. [poss- pe:hua-prt1-ca:n] 71m2-7. tlaohuican. dangerous place, difficult place. [poss-ohuia:-prt1-ca:n tla7] FC. tlaohuican. dangerous place. [poss-ohuia:-prt1-ca:n tla7] FC. tlaohuican. dangerous place, difficult place. [poss-ohuia:-prt1-ca:n tla7] FC. tlaohuican. difficult place, dangerous place. [poss-ohuia:-prt1-ca:n tla7] FC. tocamachalacaliuhca. grooved part of the lower jaw. [poss-camatl- challi-a:tl1-calli-v03a-prt1-ca:n] FC. tocanahuaca. our temples. [poss-cana:hua-ca:n] FC. tocanahuacan. our temple. [poss-cana:hua-ca:n] FC. tocohcototzauhca. our folding places. [poss-dupl-cototztli-v03b-prt1- ca:n +del.n] FC. tocohcototzauhca. our folding. [poss-dupl-cototztli-v03b-prt1-ca:n +del.n] FC. tocototzauhca. our folding place. [poss-cototztli-v03b-prt1-ca:n +del.n] FC. tocototzauhca. our folding. [poss-cototztli-v03b-prt1-ca:n +del.n] FC. t[o]ixmotzoliuhca. gripping place of our face. [poss-i:xtli-motzolli- v03a-prt1-ca:n] FC. tomohmotzoliuhca. our gripping places. [poss-dupl-motzolli-v03a-prt1- ca:n] FC. tomomotzoliuhca. our gripping places. [poss-dupl-motzolli-v03a-prt1- ca:n] FC. tomotzoliuhca. our gripping place. [poss-motzolli-v03a-prt1-ca:n] FC. totlanitzpitzahuaca. slender part of our shank. [poss-tlani:tztli- pitza:hua-ca:n +del.n] FC. toxocpalpitzahuaca. our arch. [poss-xotl1-icpatl-l3-pitza:hua-ca:n +del.n] FC. toxopitzahuaca. slender part of our leg. [poss-xotl1-pitza:hua-ca:n +del.n] FC. toyacapitzahuaca. thin part of our nose. [poss-yacatl-pitza:hua-ca:n +del.n] FC. tozaliuhca. our joint. [poss-za:lli-v03a-prt1-ca:n +del.n] FC. tozazaliuhca. our joints. [poss-dupl-za:lli-v03a-prt1-ca:n +del.n] FC. tozazaliuhcan. our joint. [poss-dupl-za:lli-v03a-prt1-ca:n] FC. tzinehcan =i. al principio, s, quando comence a hazer algo. [poss- tzi:ntli-eh1-ca:n +ev.verb.23x] 71m1-2. xocpalhuacaliuhcan =to. la puente dela planta del pie. [poss-xotl1- icpatl-l3-huacalli-v03a-prt1-ca:n] 71m2-26. yahualiuhcan =tla. al derredor. [poss-yahualli-v03a-prt1-ca:n] 71m2- 21. _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From idiez at me.com Sat Nov 14 15:24:40 2009 From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan, Ph.D.) Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 09:24:40 -0600 Subject: Ceyoc tlamahuizolli tlen IDIEZ Message-ID: Piyali Listeros, Ticcalaquihqueh ce yancuic tlamahuizolli pan youtube, huan itocah "Motlamacah". John _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From idiez at me.com Wed Nov 18 13:03:41 2009 From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan, Ph.D.) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 07:03:41 -0600 Subject: scholarships for IDIEZ Message-ID: Piyali Listeros: In my never-ending search for ways to provide scholarships for the Nahua college students who work with us at IDIEZ, I have come up with the following idea. For a tax-deductible donation of 100 dollars per month (which will provide a scholarship to one of our native speaking students) you (and as many people as you can fit in front of your webcam) can work with this student individually via Skype video on topics related to Nahua language and culture for up to three hours per week. Anyone interested can contact me at idiez at me.com. John John Sullivan, Ph.D. Professor of Nahua language and culture Universidad Autónoma de Zacatecas Zacatecas Institute of Teaching and Research in Ethnology Tacuba 152, int. 43 Centro Histórico Zacatecas, Zac. 98000 Mexico Work: +52 (492) 925-3415 Fax: +1 (858) 724-3030 (U.S.A.) Home: +52 (492) 768-6048 Mobile: +52 1 (492) 103-0195 idiez at me.com www.macehualli.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From campbel at indiana.edu Fri Nov 20 18:33:35 2009 From: campbel at indiana.edu (Campbell, R. Joe) Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 13:33:35 -0500 Subject: Tloc, nahuac, tech, tlan In-Reply-To: <000301ca63f1$d3a75ef0$7af61cd0$@net.mx> Message-ID: David, Michael, ihuan occequi Nocnihuan, The "postposition" topic is a mind-grabber. My list for the noun function includes the following: 1. base for verber suffix. 2. embeds as adverb in verbs (just as "real" nouns do). 3. takes further postposition (e.g., nepantlah). 4. takes negative prefix (like noun and verb stems [e.g., ahcan, ahhuic]). 5. takes plural suffix (e.g., nehuantin). I include some collected examples of the first three categories below and I would appreciate helpful comments. Joe *post.as.noun.1 *** amanepaniuhqui. plaited with paper. . b.9 f.1 p.5| anepanolli. ayuntamiento de rios; ayuntamiento de rios o de aguas; ayuntamiento de aguas que entran en alguna parte. . 55m-00| cahcalnepanoltia , nino-. I build houses in two parts for myself. . b.11 f.26 p.275| calnepanoa , ni-. I erect a house upon another one. . b.11 f.26 p.275| calnepanolli. sobrado de casa. . 55m-18| calnepanolli. two story house. . b.11 f.26 p.274| calnepanolmelactli. sala alta; sala alta y larga. k +post.as.noun.1>. 55m-18| calnepanolquetza , ni-. I erect a house upon another one. . b.11 f.26 p.275| calnepanoltia , nino-. I provide myself a house upon another one. . b.11 f.26 p.275| cennenepanoliztica =tla. mezcladamente. . 55m-13| cennepanoa =nitla. encorporar o mezclar vna cosa con otra; mesturar; mezclar. . 71m1- 9| cennepanoa =nitla=onitlacennepanoh. . . 71m2-3| cennepanoliztli =tla. mezcla assi (assi is mezcladamente). . 55m-13| cennepanolli =tla. cosa rebuelta y mezclada con otra, o con otras; mesturada cosa; mezclada cosa. . 71m2-20| chiucnauhnepaniuhca. . . b.6 f.14 p.175| chiucnauhnepaniuhcan. . . b.6 f.14 p.176| epnepaniuhcayo. having crossing bands of seashells. . b.12 f.1 p.15| epnepaniuhqui. crossed with seashells; something which is set with pearls. . b.12 f.1 p.10| hualnepanoa , nic-. I come to join it. . b.11 f.26 p.267| huitoliuhcanepaniuhqui. cruzero; crucero. . 55m-4| huitoliuhcanepanolli. cruzero. . 55m-4| huitoliuhcanepanolli [scribal error: ??printing error: vitoliuhcaneponolli for vitoliuhcanepanolli: 71m1]. crucero. . 71m1-6| icanhuiani =tla. el que va tras otros, acompa¤ando los. . 71m2-21| icxinetechhuia =nino [[ocxinetechuia =nin]]. cutir el vn touillo con el otro caminando, i, herir o ludir el vn touillo con el otro lastimandose. x +a>i>. 71m1-6| icxinetechhuia =nino=oninocxinetechhuih. ludir el vn^touillo conel otro lastimandose el que camina. x +a>i>. 71m2-6| ixnepanilhuia =nitetla=onitetlaixnepanilhuih. aforrar algo a otro. . 71m2- 8| ixnepanoa =nite=oniteixnepanoh. encontrarse cara a^cara el varon conla muger sin aduertir enello. . 71m2-8| ixnepanoa =nitla. aforrar algo; doblar o aforrar algo; enforrar vestidura. . 55m-00| ixnepanoa =nitla=onitlaixnepanoh. aforrar algo, o doblar la manta, o juntar la vna conla otra. . 71m2-8| ixnepanolli =tla. aforrada cosa; cosa aforrada; o cosa juntada vna con otra; doblada cosa assi (assi is doblar o aforrar algo); enforrada assi (assi is enforrar vestidura). . 55m-00| mahtlactlanepanolli. ten divisions. . b.10 f.10 p.169| manepanoa =nino. desposarse; iuntar las manos. . 55m-6| manepanoa =nino=oninomanepanoh. casarse, desposarse, o juntar las manos. . 71m2-9| manepanoa =nite. desposar a otro; desposar o casar. . 55m-6| manepanoa =nite=onitemanepanoh. casar a otros, o juntarles las manos. . 71m2-9| manepanohqui =mo. desposado. . 55m-6| manepanohqui =mo [scribal error: ??printing error: momanepanoquimonamictiqui for momanepanoqui. monamictiqui; porrua and 1944 facsimile have the same error; 1555 has momanepanoqui. monamictiqui: 71m1]. desposado. . 71m1-8| manepanohqui =mo. desposado o desposada. . 71m2-10| manepanoliztli =ne. desposorio. . 71m1-8| namictihqui =mo [scribal error: ??printing error: momanepanoquimonamictiqui for momanepanoqui. monamictiqui; porrua and 1944 facsimile have the same error; 1555 has momanepanoqui. monamictiqui: 71m1]. desposado. . 71m1-8| nenepanilhuia =nictla. diferentes y diuersas medicinas aplicar a la enfermedad que va creciendo. . 71m1-8| nenepaniuhqui. . . b.12 f.1 p.10| nenepaniuhtica. crossing each other. . b.11 f.23 p.235| nenepaniuhtoc. it is intercrossed. . b.6 f.5 p.53| nenepanoa , mo-. they join together. . b.11 f.24 p.248| nenepanoa =nitla. encorporar o mezclar vna cosa con otra; mesturar; mezclar. . 71m1- 9| nenepanoa =nitla=onitlanenepanoh. juntar mezclar, o reboluer vna cosa con otra. . 71m2- 12| nenepanoaya , qui-. they joined it together. . b.2 f.9 p.157| nenepanohtihuetzi , mo-. . . b.3 f.2 p.28| nenepanohtoqueh , mo-. they lay mixed up. . b.12 f.5 p.72| nenepanoliztica =tla. mezcladamente. . 55m-13| nenepanoliztli =tla. mezcla assi (assi is mezcladamente). . 55m-13| nenepanolli =tla. mesturada cosa; mezclada cosa. . 55m-13| nenepanolli. assorted; mixed; mixed together. . b.10 f.4 p.70| nenepantic. joined together. . b.11 f.20 p.199| nepanhuia =nic. mercar en vno. . 55m-13| nepanhuihqueh , qui-. . . b.12 f.5 p.73| nepanihui in notlahtol =ahmo huel. discordar en lo que se dize. . 55m-20| nepanihui in totlahtol =ahmo. discordar en parecer o voto; discordia en dar pareceres o votos; dissension. . 55m-6| nepanilhuia =nitetla. doblar la pena. . 55m-6| nepanilhuia =nitetla [[tlanepanilhuia =nite]]. doblar la pena y el castigo. . 71m1-8| nepanilhuia =nitetla=onitetlanepanilhuih. castigar a otro con doblado castigo. . 71m2-12| nepanilhuia =tictla. tirar dos juntamente y acertar ambos alo que tiran. . 55m- 19| nepaniuhca =i. iunta de dos rios. . 55m-11| nepaniuhca in cruz =i. el brazo dela cruz. . 71m2-7| nepaniuhca in ome atoyatl =i. junta de dos rios. . 71m2-7| nepaniuhcatlatzacuiltia =nite. doblar la pena; doblar la pena y el castigo. . 55m-6| nepaniuhcatlatzacuiltia =nite=onitenepaniuhcatlatzacuiltih. castigar a otro con doblado castigo. . 71m2-12| nepaniuhqui. crosswoven; interspersed. . b.10 f.11 p.180| nepaniuhtoc. it is intercrossed. . b.6 f.3 p.30| nepanoa , con-. it joins it; it places it together. . b.11 f.26 p.267| nepanoa , mo-. it is joined, it is added; they join in. . b.7 f.2 p.25| nepanoa , nic-. I join it. . b.11 f.26 p.267| nepanoa , nocon-. I join it. . b.11 f.26 p.267| nepanoa =nite. ayuntarse carnalmente a muger; ayuntarse carnalmente el varon con la muger; echarse con muger. per metapbora {??printing error: metapbora for metaphora}; echarse con muger; reboluerse o meterse entre otros; o tener parte con muger. . 55m-00| nepanoa =nite=onitenepanoh. tener parte con muger, o meterse entre otros. . 71m2-12| nepanoa =nitla. aueriguar algo; iuntar o ayuntar vna cosa con otra. . 55m-1| nepanoa =nitla=onitlanepanoh. juntar vna cosa con otra, o echar vna cosa sobre otra. . 71m2-12| nepanoa in atl =mo. ayuntarse los rios. . 55m-00| nepanoa in noyollo =qui=oquinepano in noyollo. caer enla cuenta delo que dudaua, o delo que no se acordaua. ll +post.as.noun.1>. 71m2-15| nepanoani =tla. aueriguador; aueriguador tal (tal is aueriguar algo); cotejador; o aueriguador de algo. . 55m-1| nepanoaya , mo-. he joined in; they joined together. . b.2 f.2 p.62| nepanoaya , quihual-. he joined it. . b.9 f.5 p.64| nepanohtimani , mo-. they lie one over another. . b.11 f.4 p.36| nepanoliztli , ne-. union. . b.6 f.11 p.129| nepanoliztli =ne. ayuntamiento assi (assi is ayuntarse carnalmente a muger); ayuntamiento assi (assi is ayuntarse carnalmente el varon con la muger); copula; o ayuntamiento carnal. . 55m-00| nepanoliztli =tla. aueriguacion; aueriguacion tal (tal is aueriguar algo); cotejamiento assi (assi is cotejador; o aueriguador de algo); iuntura assi (assi is iuntar o ayuntar vna cosa con otra). . 55m-1| nepanolli =tla. aueriguado; cosa cotejada; o aueriguada. . 55m-1| nepanoya , mo-. they joined together. . b.2 f.2 p.55| nepanoz , tic-. you will join it, you will compare it. . b.6 f.17 p.215| netechhuia , mo-. ; they fight with each other; they quarrel with each other; they contend against one another. . b.7 f.2 p.17| netechhuia =tito. re¤ir vnos con otros. tratarse mal vnos a otros los vezinos y parientes. . 71m1-18| netechhuia =tito=otitonetechhuihqueh. contender y tratarse mal^los de vna parentela o familia. . 71m2-12| netechhuia in mahhua =mo. re¤ir vnos con otros. . 55m-17| netechhuia in mahhua =mo [scribal error: ??printing error: monetechuia ymmaua for monetechuia yn:maua; the colon is unclear -- maybe a bad typeface: 71m1]. re¤ir vnos con otros. tratarse mal vnos a otros los vezinos y parientes. . 71m1-18| netechhuia in mahhua =mo=omonetechhuihqueh [scribal error: ??note that the preterit does not repeat the full phrase (i.e., "in mahhua" is left unstated): 71m2]. . . 71m2-10| netechoa =nitla. allegar vna cosa a otra; arrimar algo a otra cosa. . 71m1-2| netechoa =nitla=onitlanetechoh. . . 71m2-12| netechoani =tla. arrimador tal (tal is arrimar algo a otra cosa). . 71m1-2| netecholli =tla. arrimada cosa assi (assi is arrimar algo a otra cosa). . 71m1-2| ohnepanolco. encrucijada de caminos. . 71m2-13| omome , mahtlactlanepanolli -. twelve divisions. . b.10 f.10 p.169| paniuhtoc =cuahuitl ne. cruz; cruz de palo. . 55m-4| quequetolnepanihui =ni. doler las enzias. . 55m-6| quequetolnepanihui =ni=oniquequetolnepaniuh. dolerme las enzias. . 71m2-15| quequetolnepanihuiliztli. dolencia tal (tal is doler las enzias). . 71m1-8| quequetolnepaniuhqui. doliente assi (assi is doler las enzias); enfermo delas enzias. . 55m-6| techhuia =nite. estar cerca. . 55m-9| tenxinepanolli , tla-. . . b.2 f.2 p.60| tlahpaloa =nepanotl tito. saludarse vno a otro. . 55m-18| tlahtolnepanoa =ahmo tito. discordar en lo que se dize; discordia en dar pareceres o votos; dissension. . 55m-20| tlahtolnepanoa =mo=omotlatolnepanoque. ser concordes enlo que dizen. . 71m2-10| tontenepanoa. . <+post.as.noun.1>. b.9 f.2 p.13| tzacuiltiliztli =nepantic tetla. doblada pena; doblada pena assi (assi is doblar la pena y el castigo); doblado castigo. . 55m-6| xinepanoa =nitla. entretexer; texer vno con otro como esteras o cosa assi. . 55m-8| xinepanoa =nitla [scribal error: ??xinepanoa is put on the next line as an irregular overflow: 71m1]. texer vno con otro como esteras o cosa assi. . 71m1-20| xinepanoa =nitla=onitlaxinepanoh [[tlaxinepanoa =ni=onitlaxinepano]]. entretexer algo. . 71m2-25| xinepanoa =nitla=onitlaxinepano. entretexer como haziendo esteras, o seto, o cosa semejante. . 71m2-27| xinepanoani =tla. entretexedor; texedor tal (tal is texer vno con otro como esteras o cosa assi). . 71m2-25| xinepanoh =tla. entretexedor de algo; texedor tal (tal is texer vno con otro como esteras o cosa assi). . 71m2-25| xinepanoliztli =tla [scribal error: ??: 55m]. texedura assi (assi is texer vno con otro como esteras o cosa assi). . 55m-19| xinepanoliztli =tla. texedura assi (texer vno con otro como esteras o cosa assi); entretexedura; o el acto de entretexer. . 71m1-20| xinepanolli =tla. cosa entretexida; entretexida cosa; texido desta manera (desta manera is texer vno con otro como esteras o cosa assi). . 71m2-25| count 228 *post.as.noun.2 *** aahhuictlaza =nite. echar de aca para aculla a alguno, empuxandolo. . 71m1-9| ahhuichuetzi =n. caerse a vna parte y a otra. . 55m-2| ahhuichuetzi =n=onahhuichuetz. bambanearse. . 71m2-2| ahhuictlaloa =nin=oninahhuictlaloh. correr de aca para aculla. . 71m2-2| ahhuictlaz =te. arrojador tal (tal is arrojar o empuxar a alguno de aca para alla). . 71m1- 3| ahhuictlaza =nin. bueltas dar en la cama; bueltas o buelcos dar en la cama. . 55m-2| ahhuictlaza =nin=oninahuictlaz. desasossegarse el enfermo dando buelcos del dolor que padece. . 71m2-2| ahhuictlaza =nite. arrojar o empuxar a alguno de aca para alla; echar de aca para aculla a alguno; empuxandolo. . 71m1-3| ahhuictlazaliztli =te. arrojamiento assi (assi is arrojar o empuxar a alguno de aca para alla). . 71m1-3| ahhuictlazalli =tla. echado assi (assi is echar de aca para aculla a alguno, empuxandolo). . 71m1-9| ahhuictlaztli =tla. arrojado assi (assi is arrojar o empuxar a alguno de aca para alla); echado assi (assi is echar de aca para aculla a alguno; empuxandolo). . 71m1-3| ahhuictopehua =nite. arrojar o empuxar a alguno de aca para alla. . 71m1-3| ahhuictopehualiztli =te. arrojamiento assi (assi is arrojar o empuxar a alguno de aca para alla). . 71m1-3| ahhuictopeuh =te. arrojador tal (tal is arrojar o empuxar a alguno de aca para alla). . 71m1-3| ahhuictopeuhtli =tla. arrojado assi (assi is arrojar o empuxar a alguno de aca para alla). . 71m1-3| ahhuicyaliztli. bambaneamiento, o vagueacion. . 71m2-2| ahhuicyani. vagamundo. . 71m2- 2| ahhuicyauh =n. caerse a vna parte y a otra. . 55m-2| ahhuicyauh =n=onahhuicya. vaguear, o ser vagamundo. . 71m2-2| cepanahhua =mo. re¤ir vnos con otros. tratarse mal vnos a otros los vezinos y parientes. . 71m1- 18| huechiliztli =ahhuic. cayda a vna parte y a otra; bambaneamiento. ch +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-2| huetzqui =ahhuic. caydo assi (assi is cayda a vna parte y a otra). . 55m-2| huictlazani =te. echador tal (tal is echar de aca para aculla a alguno, empuxandolo). . 71m1- 9| huictlazqui =te. echador tal (tal is echar de aca para aculla a alguno, empuxandolo). . 71m1-9| icanihtoani =te. murmurador. . 71m2-16| icanihtoh =te. murmurador. . 71m2-16| icanihtoliztli =te. murmuracion. . 71m2-16| icxinetechmotla =nino [[ocxinetechmotla =nin]]. cutir el vn touillo con el otro caminando, i, herir o ludir el vn touillo con el otro lastimandose. x +a>i +mis_analysis.2 +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-6| icxinetechmotla =nino=oninocxinetechmotlac. ludir el vn^touillo conel otro lastimandose el que camina. x +a>i +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-6| milnetechana =nite. alindar vna eredad con otra. . 55m-00| milnetechana =nite=onitemilnetechan. alindar mi heredad con la de otro. . 71m2- 10| nehuammana , quin-. he places them together. . b.6 f.4 p.45| nehuammanaya , quin-. they placed them together. . b.9 f.7 p.88| nehuanhuihuixoa =nitla. mecer vno con otro. . 55m-13| nehuanhuihuixoa =nitla=onitlanehuanhuihuixo. sacudir, o menear y mecer dos cosas juntamente. . 71m2-12| nehuanhuihuixoani =tla. mecedor tal (tal is mecer vno con otro). . 55m-13| nehuanhuihuixoliztli =tla. mecedura tal (tal is mecer vno con otro); el acto de sacudir o mecer algunas cosas juntamente. . 55m-13| nehuanhuihuixolli =tla. mecido assi (assi is mecer vno con otro); cosas sacudidas o mecidas juntamente. . 55m-13| nehuanilpia =nite. atraillar perros o cosas semejantes. . 71m1-3| nehuanilpia =nitla. atar una cosa con otra; atar vna cosa con otra. . 55m-1| nehuanilpia =nitla=onitlanehuanilpih. atar vna cosa con otra. . 71m2-12| nehuanilpiani =tla. atrauillador tal (tal is atraillar perros o cosas semejantes). . 71m1-3| nehuanilpiliztli =tla. atadura assi (assi is atar una cosa con otra); atadura tal (tal is atar vna cosa con otra); atadura de vna cosa con otra. . 55m-1| nehuanilpilli =tla. atada cosa assi (assi is atar vna cosa con otra); cosa atada juntamente con otra. . 71m1-3| nehuanilpiltih =tla. atrauillados assi (assi is atraillar perros o cosas semejantes). . 71m1-3| nehuantenehua =niquin=oniquinnehuanteneuh. nombrar a ambos ados. . 71m2-12| nenepantlazohtlaltia =nite=onitenenepantlazohtlalti. hazer que se amen vnos a otros, o hazer amistades. . 71m2-12| nenetechilpilli , tla-. something tied together. . b.11 f.27 p.282| nenetechmana , mo-. they are put together. . b.9 f.7 p.96| nenetechtlalia , tiquimon-. we put them together. . b.4 f.10 p.106| nepammatiloa =nitla. fregar vno con otro. i +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-10| nepammatiloa =nitla=onitlanepammatiloh. fregar, o refregar vna cosa con otra. i +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-12| nepammatiloliztli =tla. fregadura tal (tal is fregar vno con otro). i +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 55m- 10| nepammatilolli =tla. fregado assi (assi is fregar vno con otro). i +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 55m- 10| nepammotla =tic. tirar dos juntamente y acertar ambos alo que tiran. . 55m-19| nepammotla =titla=otitlanepammotlaqueh. tirar y acertar muchos juntamente a lo que se tira. . 71m2-12| nepampalehuia , mo-. they help one another. . b.6 f.20 p.251| nepampatiyotia =nitla. mercar en vno. . 55m-13| nepancohua =nitla. mercar en vno. . 55m-13| nepanhuihuixoa =nitla. mecer vno con otro. . 55m-13| nepanhuihuixoa =nitla=onitlanepanhuihuixoh. sacudir o mecer juntamente dos cosas. . 71m2-12| nepanhuihuixoani =tla. mecedor tal (tal is mecer vno con otro); sacudidor o mecedor de algunas cosas; juntamente. . 55m-13| nepanhuihuixoliztli =tla. mecedura tal (tal is mecer vno con otro); sacudimiento tal (tal is sacudidor o mecedor de algunas cosas; juntamente). . 55m-13| nepanhuihuixolli =tla. mecido assi (assi is mecer vno con otro); cosa sacudida assi (assi is sacudidor o mecedor de algunas cosas; juntamente). . 55m-13| nepanicnelia =tito=otitonepanicnelihqueh. hazer bien los vnos alos otros. . 71m2- 12| nepanicneliliztli =ne. beneficio que los vnos alos otros se hazen. . 71m2-12| nepanicnelilo =ne=onenepanicneliloc. hazense bien los vnos alos otros. . 71m2- 12| nepannahuatecqueh , omo-. . <+embed +post.as.noun.2>. b.9 f.2 p.23| nepantlahpaloa =tito. saludarse vno a otro. . 55m-18| nepantlahpaloa =tito=otitonepantlahpalohqueh. . . 71m2-12| nepantlahpaloliztli =ne. salutacion assi (assi is saludarse vno a otro); salutacion de vnos a otros. . 55m-18| nepantlapopolhuiah =mo=omonepantlapopolhuihqueh. los que se perdonan vnos a otros. . 71m2-10| nepantlaxeloaya , mo-. they divided themselves into two equal parts. . b.2 f.7 p.119| nepantlazohtla =mo. los que entre si se aman. . 71m2-10| nepantlazohtlaliztli =ne. amor con que se aman los vnos alos otros. . 71m2-12| nepantlazohtlalo =ne. amarse vnos a otros. . 71m2-12| nepantlazohtlaya , mo-. they esteemed each other; they loved each other. . b.9 f.2 p.23| nepantzahtzilia =tito=otitonepantzahtzilihqueh. llamar o dar bozes losvnos alos otros, o prouocarse a dar priesa los que trabajan. . 71m2-12| nepanxacualoa =nitla. fregar vno con otro. . 55m-10| nepanxacualoa =nitla=onitlanepanxacualoh. fregar o refregar vna cosa con otra. . 71m2-12| nepanxacualoliztli =tla. fregadura tal (tal is fregar vno con otro); refregadura de vna cosa con otra. . 55m-10| nepanxacualolli =tla. fregado assi (assi is fregar vno con otro); cosa refregada assi (assi is refregadura de vna cosa con otra). . 55m- 10| netechachalatza =mo=omonetechachalatz. cutir, o herirse vnas cosas con otras. ch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-10| netechachalatza =nitla. cutir vna vasija con otra. ch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-6| netechachalatza =nitla=onitlanetechachalatz. cutir o herir vna cosa con otra. ch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-12| netechachalatzaliztli =tla. herida o el acto de herir o cutir vnas cosas con otras. ch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-22| netechahhua =mo. re¤ir vnos con otros. . 55m-17| netechahhua =mo [scribal error: ??printing error: moueteehaua for monetechaua: 71m1]. re¤ir vnos con otros. tratarse mal vnos a otros los vezinos y parientes. . 71m1-18| netechahhua =mo=omonetechahhuaqueh. re¤ir vnos con otros. . 71m2-10| netechahxitia =nitla. hazer llegar vna cosa a otra juntandolas. . 71m1-12| netechahxitia =nitla=onitlanetechahxiti. hazer llegar, o juntar vna cosa con otra. . 71m2-12| netechahxitiani =tla. hazedor tal (tal is hazer llegar vna cosa a otra juntandolas). . 71m1-12| netechahxitihqui =tla. hazedor tal (tal is hazer llegar vna cosa a otra juntandolas). . 71m1-12| netechalania , te-. he arouses bad feeling among people. ch +post.as.noun.2>. b.11 f.6 p.52| netechalania =mo. cutir vn hueuo con otro, o cosa assi. ch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-6| netechalania =mo=omonetechalani. cutir, o herirse vnas cosas con otras. ch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-10| netechalania =nite. desconcertar o enemistar a otros; discordia poner. ch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-7| netechalania =nite [scribal error: ??printing error: netechalama =nite for netechalania =nite; porrua has 'm', but the facsimile (1944) has 'ni': 71m1]. reboluer o turbar a otros. ch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-18| netechalania =nite [scribal error: ??printing error: netechalama, nite for netechalania, nite; 1944 facsimile has the correct form, but the porrua edition contains the misreading of "ni" as "m": 71m1]. sembrar discordias. ch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-19| netechalania =nite=onitenetechalani. reboluer a otros. ch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-12| netechalania =nitla. cutir vn hueuo con otro, o cosa assi; cutir vna vasija con otra; herir vna cosa con otra. ch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-6| netechalania =nitla=onitlanetechalanih. cutir o herir vna cosa con otra. ch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-12| netechalania =tito. contender vnos con otros; debatir o porfiar y contender vnos con otros; porfiar o debatir vnos con otros. ch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1- 5| netechalania =tito=otitonetechalanihqueh. contender vnos con otros. ch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-12| netechalaniani =te. reboluedor que mete mal entre otros. ch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2- 17| netechalaniliztli =te. desconcierto tal (tal is desconcertar a otros enemistandolos). ch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-5| netechalaniliztli =tla. herida assi (assi is herir vna cosa con otra). ch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-13| netechalaniliztli =te. el acto de reboluer a otros assi. s. aquella contienda y discordia (assi is reboluedor que mete mal entre otros). ch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-17| netechalaniliztli =tla. el acto de herir o cutir vna cosa con otra. ch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-22| netechalanilli =tla. cosa herida o cutida con otra. ch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-22| netechanaya , mo-. they were paired with each other. . b.9 f.7 p.88| netechantihui =ti=otinetechantiaque. yr asidos vnos de otros. . 71m2-12| netechantimani xocomecamilli =mo. pago de vi¤as o vi¤edo. . 55m-15| netechantiuh =omotechantia [scribal error: ??multiple problems: 1) ne- does not appear in the preterit; 2) mo- does not appear in the present; molina usually uses first person form unless the action is obviously not a human one: 71m2]. yr seguido y junto lo vno con lo otro. . 71m2-12| netechantiuh =mo. yr alguna cosa seguida o continuada, o eslauonada. . 71m2-10| netechcacalatza =mo. herirse vnas cosas con otras. . 55m-11| netechcacalatza =mo=omonetechcacalatz. lo mismo es que motechachalatza. . 71m2-10| netechcacalatzaliztli =tla. herida assi (assi is herirse vnas cosas con otras); . . 55m-11| netechcalania =nitla. herir vna cosa con otra (tal is herir con vara); herir vna cosa con otra. . 55m-11| netechcalania =nitla=onitlanetechcalani. cutir, o herir vna cosa con otra. . 71m2-12| netechcalaniliztli =tla. herida assi (assi is herir vna cosa con otra); . . 55m-11| netechchachalatza =mo. herirse vnas cosas con otras. chch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-11| netechchachalatza =nitla. cutir vna vasija con otra. chch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-4| netechchachalatzaliztli =tla. herida assi (assi is herirse vnas cosas con otras). chch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-11| netechchalania =mo. cutir vno con otro; tocar vna vasija con otra. chch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-4| netechchalania =nite. desconcertar a otros enemistandolos; discordia poner. ch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-5| netechchalania =nitla. cutir vna vasija con otra; herir vna cosa con otra (tal is herir con vara); quebrar vna cosa a otra; quebrar vna cosa con otra. chch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-4| netechchalaniani =te. malsin. chch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-13| netechchalaniliztli =tla. herida assi (assi is herir vna cosa con otra). chch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-11| netechchalanilli =tla. desconcertado assi (assi is desconcertar a otros enemistandolos). ch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-5| netechchihchiqui =nitla. ludir o fregar vna cosa con otra. . 55m-12| netechehua =nite. desconcertar a otros enemistandolos; desconcertar o enemistar a otros; discordia poner; reboluer o turbar a otros; sembrar discordias. . 55m-5| netechehua =nite=onitenetecheuh. ser malsin, o reboluer a otros. . 71m2-12| netechehua =nitla. ludir o fregar vna cosa con otra. . 55m-12| netechehua =nitla=onitlanetecheuh. refregar vna cosa con otra. . 71m2-12| netechehua =te. chismero. . 55m-4| netechehualiztli =te. desconcierto tal (tal is desconcertar a otros enemistandolos); desconcierto tal (tal is desconcertar o enemistar a otros); (assi is reboluedor que mete mal entre otros). . 55m-5| netechehuani =te. desconcertador assi (assi is desconcertar o enemistar a otros); lo mesmo es que netechalaniani; malsin; reboluedor que mete mal entre algunos. . 71m1-7| netecheuh =te. lo mesmo es que netechalaniani. . 71m2-17| netecheuhtinemi , te-. he goes about causing dissension. . b.4 f.3 p.30| netecheuhtli =tla. desconcertado assi (assi is desconcertar a otros enemistandolos). . 55m-5| netechhuitequi =nitla. herir vna cosa con otra (tal is herir con vara); herir vna cosa con otra. . 55m-11| netechhuitequi =nitla=onitlanetechhuitec. herir vna cosa con otra. . 71m2-12| netechhuitequiliztli =tla. herida assi (assi is herir vna cosa con otra); herida o encuentro de vna cosa con otra. . 55m-11| netechihchiqui =nitla. ludir o fregar vna cosa con otra. ch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-14| netechihchiqui =nitla=onitlanetechichic. refregar vna cosa con otra. ch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-12| netechihtzoma =nitla. coser vna cosa con otra. . 55m-4| netechihtzoma =nitla=onitlanetechitzon. coser vna cosa con otra. . 71m2-12| netechihtzomani =tla. cosedor tal (tal is coser vna cosa con otra). . 71m1-6| netechihtzonqui =tla. cosedor tal (tal is coser vna cosa con otra). . 71m1-6| netechihtzontli , tla-. something sewn together. . b.2 f.9 p.156| netechihtzontli =tla. cosida cosa assi (assi is coser vna cosa con otra). . 71m1-6| netechilpia , con-. they tie it together. . b.6 f.11 p.131| netechilpia , quin-. they tie them together. . b.6 f.11 p.131| netechilpia =nite. atraillar perros o cosa assi; atraillar perros o cosas semejantes. . 55m-1| netechilpia =nitla. atar una cosa con otra; atar vna cosa con otra. . 55m-1| netechilpia =nitla=onitlanetechilpi. atar vna cosa con otra, o trayllar galgos. &c. . 71m2-12| netechilpiani =te. atrauillador tal (tal is atraillar perros o cosas semejantes). . 71m1-3| netechilpiani =tla. atrauillador tal (tal is atraillar perros o cosas semejantes). . 71m1-3| netechilpiaya , quine-. they tied it together. . b.1 f.2 p.47| netechilpih , otech-. he tied us together. . b.6 f.12 p.146| netechilpiliztli =tla. atadura assi (assi is atar una cosa con otra); atadura tal (tal is atar vna cosa con otra); el acto de atar vna cosa con otra. . 55m-1| netechilpilli =tla. atada cosa assi (assi is atar vna cosa con otra); cosa atada a otra; o con otra. . 71m1-3| netechilpiltin =tla. atrauillados assi (assi is atraillar perros o cosas semejantes). . 71m1-3| netechixnamiqui =tito. contender vnos con otros; debatir o porfiar y contender vnos con otros; porfiar o debatir vnos con otros. . 71m1-5| netechixnamiqui =tito=otitonetechixnamique. contender vnos con otros. . 71m2- 12| netechmictihqueh , mo-. they killed one another. . b.12 f.5 p.72| netechmotla =mo. cutir vno con otro; cutir vn hueuo con otro; o cosa assi; herirse vnas cosas con otras. . 55m-4| netechmotla =mo=omonetechmotlac. lo mismo es que motechachalatza. . 71m2-10| netechmotla =nitla. cutir vn hueuo con otro, o cosa assi; herir vna cosa con otra (tal is herir con vara); herir vna cosa con otra; quebrar vna cosa a otra; quebrar vna cosa con otra. . 71m1-6| netechmotla =nitla=onitlanetechmotlac. cutir, o herir vna cosa con otra. . 71m2-12| netechmotla =tito. toparse assi ambos (assi is topar con otro no aduertiendo). . 55m-19| netechmotlaliztli =tla. herida assi (assi is herir vna cosa con otra); herida assi (assi is herirse vnas cosas con otras); . . 55m-11| netechmotlalli =tla. . . 71m2-22| netechmotlani =tla. el que hiere o cute vna cosa con otra. . 71m2-22| netechnamictiliztli =tla. iuntura assi (assi is iuntar o ayuntar vna cosa con otra). . 55m-11| netechpachoa =nitla. ayuntar vna cosa a otra; allegar vna cosa a otra; iuntar o ayuntar vna cosa con otra; ayuntar o allegar vna cosa a otra; arrimar algo a otra cosa. . 55m-00| netechpachoa =nitla=onitlanetechpacho. . . 71m2-12| netechpachoani =tla. ayuntador tal (tal is ayuntar o allegar vna cosa a otra); arrimador tal (tal is arrimar algo a otra cosa). . 71m1-2| netechpacholiztli =tla. ayuntamiento assi (assi is ayuntar vna cosa a otra); iuntura assi (assi is iuntar o ayuntar vna cosa con otra). . 55m- 00| netechpacholiztli =tla [scribal error: ??same as first item in this entry: 55m]. iuntura assi (assi is iuntar o ayuntar vna cosa con otra). . 55m-11| netechpacholiztli =tla. ayuntamiento assi (assi is ayuntar o allegar vna cosa a otra); iuntura assi (assi is iuntar o ayuntar vna cosa con otra); el acto de ayuntar vna cosa a otra; o con otra. . 71m1-2| netechpacholli =tla. ayuntada cosa assi (assi is ayuntar o allegar vna cosa a otra); arrimada cosa assi (assi is arrimar algo a otra cosa); cosa ayuntada a otra; o con otra. . 71m1-2| netechpiqui =nitla. tupir algo. . 55m-20| netechpiqui =nitla=onitlanetechpic. tupir algo. . 71m2-12| netechtlalia =nitla. ayuntar mantas cosiendolas vnas con otras o cosa assi; iuntar o ayuntar vna cosa con otra; ayuntar o juntar mantas vnas con otras cosiendolas. . 55m-00| netechtlalia =nitla=onitlanetechtlalih. juntar mantas cosiendolas vnas con otras, o cosa semejante. . 71m2-12| netechtlaliani =tla. ayuntador tal (tal is ayuntar o juntar mantas vnas con otras cosiendolas). . 71m1-2| netechtlaliliztli =tla. ayuntamiento tal (tal is ayuntar mantas cosiendolas vnas con otras o cosa assi); iuntura assi (assi is iuntar o ayuntar vna cosa con otra); ayuntamiento tal (tal is ayuntar o juntar mantas vnas con otras cosiendolas); el acto de juntar o pegar vna manta a otra; o cosa semejante. . 55m-00| netechtlalilli =tla. ayuntadas mantas assi (assi is ayuntar o juntar mantas vnas con otras cosiendolas); cosa ayuntada o pegada assi (assi is el acto de juntar o pegar vna manta a otra; o cosa semejante). . 71m1-2| netechtlapana =nitla. cutir hueuos; quebrar vna cosa a otra; quebrar vna cosa con otra. . 55m-4| netechtlapana =nitla=onitlanetechtlapan. quebrar alguna vasija con otra, o cosa assi. . 71m2-12| netechxacualoa =nite. fregar vno con otro. chx +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-12| netechxacualoa =nitla. fregar vno con otro; ludir o fregar vna cosa con otra. chx +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-10| netechxacualoliztli =tla. fregadura tal (tal is fregar vno con otro). chx +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-10| netechxacualolli =tla. fregado assi (assi is fregar vno con otro). chx +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-10| netechxamania =nitla. cutir hueuos. chx +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-4| netechxamania =nitla=onitlanetechaxamani. cutir o quebrar los hueuos vnos con otros, o las xicalas y cosas semejantes. chx +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-12| netechyehua , te-. . ye +post.as.noun.2>. b.10 f.2 p.38| netechzaloa =nitla. ayuntar mantas cosiendolas vnas con otras o cosa assi; iuntar o ayuntar vna cosa con otra; pegar dos cosas; soldar con plomo. chz +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-00| netechzaloliztli =tla. ayuntamiento tal (tal is ayuntar mantas cosiendolas vnas con otras o cosa assi); iuntura assi (assi is iuntar o ayuntar vna cosa con otra); pegadura tal (tal is pegar dos cosas); . chz +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-00| netechzalolli =tla. ; pegada cosa assi (assi is pegar dos cosas). chz +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-22| netezaloa =nitla. ayuntar o juntar mantas vnas con otras cosiendolas. z +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-2| netezaloa =nitla=onitlanetezaloh. pegar o juntar vna cosa con otra. z +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-12| netezaloani =tla. ayuntador tal (tal is ayuntar o juntar mantas vnas con otras cosiendolas). z +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-2| netezaloliztli =tla. ayuntamiento tal (tal is ayuntar o juntar mantas vnas con otras cosiendolas). z +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-2| netezalolli =tla. ayuntadas mantas assi (assi is ayuntar o juntar mantas vnas con otras cosiendolas). z +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-2| pachiuhtiuh , netech-. they go pressed against us. . b.12 f.7 p.114| quequeyolnetechmotla =nino. ludir el vn touillo con el otro,andando. . 71m1- 14| quequeyolnetechmotla =nino=oninoquequeyolnetechmotlac. ludir el vn touillo conelotro, quando caminamos y nos lastimamos. . 71m2-15| queyolnetechmotlaliztli. ludimiento assi (assi is ludir el vn touillo con el otro,andando). . 71m1-14| tecanecacayahualiz , i-. his deceit. . b.11 f.7 p.69| tecanecayahualiz , i-. his deceit. . b.6 f.18 p.231| teicanihtoa =nite=oniteteicanitoh. detraer, o murmurar de otros. . 71m2-16| tlahtlanxima , te-. they repeatedly commit adultery. . b.4 f.5 p.51| tlocpaihcani , te-. intercessor. . b.10 f.2 p.32| topanehua , mo-. it rises above us. . b.11 f.11 p.107| xocomecamilli =monetechantimani. pago de vi¤as o vi¤edo. . 71m1-16| yahqui =ahhuic. caydo assi (assi is cayda a vna parte y a otra); caydo assi. . 55m-2| yayaliztli =ahhuic. cayda a vna parte y a otra; bambaneamiento; o vagueacion. . 55m-2| zaliuhticateh. they are adhering. . b.4 f.10 p.106| count 360 *post.as.noun.3 *** altepetlalli =anepantlah ca. ysla tierra cercada de agua. . 55m-12| anepantlah. in the middle of the water, in the middle of the lagoon. . b.2 f.3 p.70| calacqui =anepantlah. engolfado. . 55m-8| calaqui =anepantlah ni. engolfarse. . 55m-8| cehuiliztli =nepantlah tonatiuh ne. siesta en el medio del dia. . 71m1-19| cehuiliztli tonaltzitzicaliztli =nepantla tonatiuh ne [scribal error: ??split??: 55m]. siesta enel medio del dia. . 55m-18| chaneh =cuauhnepantlah. morador de bosque. . 55m-14| cuanepantlah , i-. crown of his head; crown of its head; in the middle of his forehead; in the middle of its head; on the crown of his head; on the crown of its head; the crown of his head; the crown of its head. . b.8 f.5 p.76| cuanepantlah , in-. on the crown of their heads. . b.2 f.6 p.114| cuauhnepantlah. lo interior o el medio del desierto o del monte. . 71m2-15| cuauhnepantlah. middle of a forest. . b.5 f.1 p.153| elelquixtiloyan =nepantlah tonatiuh ne. sesteadero lugar de siesta. x +l.for.ll +post.as.noun.3>. 55m-18| ellelquixtia =nepantlah tonatiuh nin. sestear tener la siestra; sestear tener la siesta en algun lugar. x +post.as.noun.3>. 55m-18| ellelquixtiliztli =nepantlah tonatiuh ne. siesta enel medio del dia; siesta en el medio del dia. x +post.as.noun.3>. 55m-18| huehuetzi =nepantlah. nones. . 55m-14| huetzi =nepantlah. nones. . 71m2-12| ihcac =nepantlah. medianero como quiera; medianero; o cosa que esta en medio de algo. . 55m- 13| ihcaliztli =nepantlah. medianeria desta manera (desta manera is medianero como quiera). . 55m-13| ithualnepantlah. in the middle of the courtyard. . b.2 f.2 p.59| macpalnepantla , i-. . . b.9 f.3 p.35| macpalnepantlah , i-. in the middle of the palm of his hand. . b.9 f.3 p.34| nemi =cuauhnepantlah. morador de bosque. . 55m-14| nemi =tenepantlah ni. chismear; reboluer o turbar a otros; sembrar discordias; reboluer a otros; o ser malsin. . 55m-4| nemi =tenepantlah tetzalan ni=tenepantlah tetzalan oninen. el acto de reboluer aotros o meter mal entre otros. . 71m2-17| nemiliztli =tenepantlah. el acto de reboluer aotros. . 71m2-17| nemini =tenepantlah. chismero; malsin y reboluedor de otros. . 55m-4| nemini =tetzalan tenepantlah. malsin; o reboltoso. . 55m-13| nepantlah. . . b.2 f.6 p.116| nepantlah. medianamente assi. . 71m1- 15| nepantlah , i-. ; at its zenith; in the middle of it; in the midst of it; in the center of it; its center. . b.6 f.16 p.203| nepantlah , in-. among them; between them; in the middle of them; in the midst of them. . b.12 f.3 p.48| nepantlah , te-. among people; in the middle of people. . b.1 f.1 p.5| nepantlah , tla-. ; in the middle. . b.4 f.3 p.23| nepantlah =te. en medio de algunos, o entre otros; entre algunos. . 71m2-17| nepantlah. among people; in the middle; in the middle of it; in the midst of it; middle. . b.10 f.1 p.16| nepantlahquixtiliztli =tla. reduzimiento assi (assi is reduzir al medio). x +post.as.noun.3>. 55m-17| nepantlahtectli =tla. cortada cosa assi (assi is cortar por medio). . 71m1-5| nepantlahtequi =nitla. cortar por medio. . 55m-4| nepantlahtequi =nitla=onitlanepantlahtec. cortar algo por medio. . 71m2-12| nepantlahtequiliztli =tla. cortadura assi (assi is cortar por medio). . 71m1-5| nepantlahtlaxilia =ticto. culpa echar vno a otro; culpa echar el vno al otro. x +post.as.noun.3>. 55m-4| nepantlahtlaxilia =ticto=otictonepantlahtlaxilique. echar la culpa de algo, el vno al otro. x +post.as.noun.3>. 71m2-19| nepantlahtli. el medio entre dos estremidades; medio entre dos estremos. . 71m2-12| nepantlahtzayana =nitla. romper por medio. . 55m-17| nepantlahtzayana =nitla=onitlanepantlahtzayan. rasgar algo por medio. . 71m2-12| ohnepanco. encrucijada de caminos; encruzijada de caminos. . 71m2-13| pantlah , ne-. in the middle. . b.2 f.10 p.165| pantlah =ne. enel medio, o en medio, o por el medio. aduerbio. . 71m2-12| quetzaliztli =tenepantlah mo. medianeria desta manera (desta manera is medianero como quiera). . 55m-13| quetzani =tenepantlah mo. medianero como quiera; el que se pone en^medio delos que ri¤en para poner los empaz. . 55m-13| quixtia =nepantlah nic. reduzir al medio. x +post.as.noun.3>. 55m-17| quixtia =nepantlah nic=nepantlah oniquixtih. reduzir algo al medio. x +post.as.noun.3>. 71m2- 12| quiza titlantli =nepantlah. mensajero entre dos; mensagero entre dos. . 55m-13| quizani , tenepantlah -. one who settles quarrels. . b.10 f.1 p.15| teca =tenepantlah nino. chismear; reboluer o turbar a otros; sembrar discordias. . 55m- 4| teca =tenepantlah nino=tenepantlah oninotecac. el acto de reboluer aotros o meter mal entre otros. . 71m2-17| tecani , tenepantlah mo-. one who sows discord among people. . b.10 f.1 p.7| tecani =tenepantlah mo. chismero; malsin y reboluedor de otros. . 55m-4| tecani =tetzalan tenepantlah mo. malsin; malsin que mete mal entre otros. . 55m-13| tecatinemi , tenepantlah mo-. he goes along gossiping. . b.11 f.8 p.79| tecaya , tetzalan tenepantlah mo-. he brought discord among people. . b.1 f.1 p.5| tenepantlah ninoquetza =tetzalan=tetzalan tenepantlah oninoquetz. poner paz entre los que ri¤en, o se acuchillan. . 71m2-19| tenepantlah ninoteca =tetzalan=tetzalan tenepantlah oninotecac. ser malsin y meter mal entre otros. . 71m2-19| teochihualiztli =yohualnepantlah ne. maitines. . 55m-13| tequiliztli =tenepantlah ne. el acto de reboluer aotros. i +post.as.noun.3>. 71m2-17| teteca =tenepantlah nino=tenepantlah oninotetecac. el acto de reboluer aotros o meter mal entre otros. . 71m2-17| tianquiznepantlah. in the middle of the market place. . b.3 f.2 p.27| titlantli =nepantlahquiza. mensajero entre dos. . 71m1-15| tlanepantlahquixtia , tla-. he reduces something to medium. . b.10 f.2 p.29| tlanepantlahtequini =tla. cortador tal (tal is cortar por medio). . 71m1- 5| tonalli =nepantlah. medio dia; media dia. . 55m-13| tonatiuh , nepantlah -. at midday; noon. . b.1 f.2 p.31| tonatiuh =nepantlah. medio dia; media dia. . 55m-13| tonatiuh neelelquixtiloyan =nepantlah [scribal error: ??neelelquixtiloyan for neellelquixtiloyan: 71m1]. sesteadero lugar de siesta. x +l.for.ll +post.as.noun.3>. 71m1-19| yoalnepantlah. media noche, o amedia noche. . 71m2-7| yoalnepantlah. at midnight; midnight; in the middle of the night. . b.2 f.10 p.170| yohualnepantlah. a^media noche; media noche; o amedia noche. . 71m1-2| yohualnepantlah. at midnight; midnight; in the middle of the night. . b.2 f.10 p.158| count 283 _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx Fri Nov 20 20:17:51 2009 From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright) Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 14:17:51 -0600 Subject: Tloc, nahuac, tech, tlan In-Reply-To: <20091120133335.8ftomp7eowc0so0k@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: Joe: I'm glad your mind has been grabbed by this category of Nahuatl morphemes. Your list provides a deeper look into the nepan and netech morpheme compounds than I ever imagined having the chance to see. I have a couple of comments, although I don't suppose either can be placed in the "helpful" category. I should have learned to understand all of your abbreviations by now, but several of them still go over my head. Please bear in mind that I'm not a linguist by training (I studied visual arts as an undergrad and masters student, transdisciplinary social sciences at the PhD level), although I find verbal communication just as interesting as visual communication and try to understand what's going on. I was a bit puzzled by the "poss" label for the ne element in these constructions, having previously only conceived of this morpheme as an "indefinite reflexive prefix." Then I saw Andrews' brief treatment of this as a "reciprocative possessor morph" meaning "one another's" and "each other's" (Introduction to classical Nahuatl, 2nd. ed., p. 107). He says this morpheme is "highly infrequent" and has a "more restricted meaning" than the homophonous indefinite reflexive prefix (which he labels "a shuntline reflexive/reciprocative-object morph" in his text [p. 57] and, mercifully, "reflexive pronoun" in the index [p. 671]). Examples aren't provided in the places I just cited, although he discusses nepan on pp. 484 and 485: "*nepan = on one another, over one another [This NNC, whose possessor pronoun shows reciprocal possession, occurs only as an imbed and as the source for the adjectival NNC nepa:pan (...)]." So a bit of light begins to shine through my mental fog. I'll print out your word list and look at it from time to time so that it can duly sink in. Saludos, David -----Mensaje original----- De: Campbell, R. Joe [mailto:campbel at indiana.edu] Enviado el: viernes, 20 de noviembre de 2009 12:34 p.m. Para: David Wright CC: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org Asunto: RE: [Nahuat-l] Tloc, nahuac, tech, tlan David, Michael, ihuan occequi Nocnihuan, The "postposition" topic is a mind-grabber. My list for the noun function includes the following: 1. base for verber suffix. 2. embeds as adverb in verbs (just as "real" nouns do). 3. takes further postposition (e.g., nepantlah). 4. takes negative prefix (like noun and verb stems [e.g., ahcan, ahhuic]). 5. takes plural suffix (e.g., nehuantin). I include some collected examples of the first three categories below and I would appreciate helpful comments. Joe _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From susana at losrancheros.org Fri Nov 20 21:04:49 2009 From: susana at losrancheros.org (Susana Moraleda) Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 22:04:49 +0100 Subject: dancing Message-ID: Niltze listeros, I am completely confused with the terms for "to dance", "dance", "dancer". I understand it is a transitive AND reflexive verb, but.... TO DANCE IHTOTIA, so I dance (alone) = NINECHIHTOTIA (transitive)? or NINOIHTOTIA (reflexive)? DANCE I have found IHTOTILIZTLI, MIHTOHTLI and NETOTILIZTLI. What are the sources for the last two? why starting with M? is that the reflexive version? and why does the last one start with NE? Which one is grammatically correct? DANCER I found MIHTOTIANI, MIHTOTIHQUI and MOHTOTIHQUI. Why not something without the M? again because of its reflexive nature? Why not IHTOTIANI? Muchas gracias por adelantado. Susana -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Sat Nov 21 02:08:29 2009 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 21:08:29 -0500 Subject: dancing In-Reply-To: <003301ca6a25$1b408d70$98e83697@susana> Message-ID: Quoting Susana Moraleda : > Niltze listeros, > > I am completely confused with the terms for "to dance", "dance", "dancer". > I understand it is a transitive AND reflexive verb, but.... Bueno. No es un problema grande, Susana. First of all, note that in Spanish, Italian, French, English... that transitive verbs can be reflexive verbs. That's the nature of things grammatical: I see you. I see myself. Nahuatl can perform in the same way. Nimitzcaqui " hear you, I listen to you" Ninocaqui "I hear myself, I listen to myself" > > TO DANCE > IHTOTIA, Now, in Spanish, Italian, French, English, the verb meaning "dance" is intransitive and thus requires a preposition to complete the action: I dance with you. I dance with myself...or I dance by myself. But, in Nahuatl, the verb meaning "dance" is transitive, and thus also can be reflexive. Nimitzihtotia "I dance with you,"literally "I dance you" Ninihtohtia "I dance" literally "I dance myself" (actually these forms are nimitzihto:tia: and ninihto:htia:...but for now we'll leave the long vowel markings to those, including myself :-), who are concerned with such things.) > I dance (alone) = NINECHIHTOTIA (transitive)? or NINOIHTOTIA (reflexive)? > Not the first one because -nech- is not a reflexive pronoun; it's an object pronoun for a transitive verb. (-)no-/(-)mo- are the reflexive pronouns. Yes, the second is pretty close but the -o- of the reflexive pronoun can be "unstable" depending on the nature of the verb that follows, and in the case of the verb "dance" drops in favor of the -i- of -ihtotia. So, you get "ninihtotia," which translates "I am dancing, I dance" > DANCE > I have found IHTOTILIZTLI, MIHTOHTLI and NETOTILIZTLI. What are the > sources for the last two? why starting with M? is that the reflexive > version? and why does the last one start with NE? Which one is > grammatically correct? Netotiliztli is the correct form for the deverbal noun meaning "dancing," i.e., "the act of dancing". (-)ne- is an "impersonal" reflexive pronoun used when forming "impersonal" forms such as -liztli "nounings" and non-active impersonal forms such as necaco 'people hear themselves', nezahualo 'there is fasting" (i.e., people are fasting themselves), onequetzaloc 'people stood up'. I don't know about "IHTOTILIZTLI". It sounds strange and ungrammatical. Seems to be missing the front end. However, "MIHTOHTLI" sounds o.k. for a noun meaning 'a dance' or 'the dance' premised on the personal reflexive pronoun (-)mo-. > > DANCER > I found MIHTOTIANI, MIHTOTIHQUI and MOHTOTIHQUI. Why not something > without the M? again because of its reflexive nature? Why not > IHTOTIANI? All of these sound fine, and you have answered your own question, I would say. Best, Michael _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Sat Nov 21 02:30:18 2009 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 21:30:18 -0500 Subject: Tloc, nahuac, tech, tlan In-Reply-To: <20091120133335.8ftomp7eowc0so0k@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: Quoting "Campbell, R. Joe" : > David, Michael, ihuan occequi Nocnihuan, > > The "postposition" topic is a mind-grabber. My list for the noun > function includes the following: > > 1. base for verber suffix. > 2. embeds as adverb in verbs (just as "real" nouns do). > 3. takes further postposition (e.g., nepantlah). > 4. takes negative prefix (like noun and verb stems [e.g., ahcan, ahhuic]). > 5. takes plural suffix (e.g., nehuantin). Regarding #2, I'd like to get around to discussing your "(just as 'real' nouns do)" sometime. Are there real nouns in Nahuatl? I'm reminded of Father Baraga's statement in his _The Theoretical and Practical Grammar of the Otchipwe Language": "In closing let it be allowed that the Indian language is perfect in its own way, and has many beauties not to be found in our modern languages; for instance, the verb in the Indian idiom, is the supreme chief of the language; it draws into its magical circle all the other parts of speech, and makes them act, move, suffer, and even exist in the manner, and in such situations as is pleasing to it. In truth a learned philologist likened the verb of the Indian language to Atlas that carries the world on its shoulders. If a language can be compared to a world, this comparison appears to us very just; for the verb can carry it entirely in its bosom." Blair Rudes, the late Iroquoianist, once told me that there was a Iroquoian language (Tuscarora, I believe, but I can't remember) that had only around 7 bona fide nouns; everything else that we would consider nouns were actually verbs. Nahuatl seems to have this same characteristic. I think Andrews talks about this somewhere, but I don't know where. But when we say, for example, 'cuauhtli' (cua:uhtli) 'eagle', what we are dealing with here is a verb phrase meaning 'it is an/the eagle'. Well, that's all for another time. > > I include some collected examples of the first three categories > below and I would appreciate helpful comments. tlazohcamati huel miac, Joe. This looks like fun. Michael P.S. In an earlier posting I said that maybe you had meant to write /i:can-pa/ rather than /i:can/. What lack of vision on my part of yours. > > Joe > > > *post.as.noun.1 *** > amanepaniuhqui. plaited with paper. +post.as.noun.1>. b.9 f.1 p.5| > anepanolli. ayuntamiento de rios; ayuntamiento de rios o de aguas; > ayuntamiento de aguas que entran en alguna parte. v03a-caus06-l1 +post.as.noun.1>. 55m-00| > cahcalnepanoltia , nino-. I build houses in two parts for myself. > +post.as.noun.1>. b.11 f.26 p.275| > calnepanoa , ni-. I erect a house upon another one. pan-v03a-caus06 +post.as.noun.1>. b.11 f.26 p.275| > calnepanolli. sobrado de casa. +post.as.noun.1>. 55m-18| > calnepanolli. two story house. +post.as.noun.1>. b.11 f.26 p.274| > calnepanolmelactli. sala alta; sala alta y larga. v03a-caus06-l1-mela:hua-l2 +w>k +post.as.noun.1>. 55m-18| > calnepanolquetza , ni-. I erect a house upon another one. poss-pan-v03a-caus06-l1-quetza +post.as.noun.1>. b.11 f.26 p.275| > calnepanoltia , nino-. I provide myself a house upon another one. > . > b.11 f.26 p.275| > cennenepanoliztica =tla. mezcladamente. caus06-liz-ti1-ca2 +post.as.noun.1>. 55m-13| > cennepanoa =nitla. encorporar o mezclar vna cosa con otra; mesturar; > mezclar. . 71m1- > 9| > cennepanoa =nitla=onitlacennepanoh. . p51-cem-poss-pan-v03a-caus06 +post.as.noun.1>. 71m2-3| > cennepanoliztli =tla. mezcla assi (assi is mezcladamente). poss-pan-v03a-caus06-liz +post.as.noun.1>. 55m-13| > cennepanolli =tla. cosa rebuelta y mezclada con otra, o con otras; > mesturada cosa; mezclada cosa. +post.as.noun.1>. 71m2-20| > chiucnauhnepaniuhca. . +post.as.noun.1>. b.6 f.14 p.175| > chiucnauhnepaniuhcan. . +post.as.noun.1>. b.6 f.14 p.176| > epnepaniuhcayo. having crossing bands of seashells. v03a-prt1-ca:5-yo:tl1 +post.as.noun.1>. b.12 f.1 p.15| > epnepaniuhqui. crossed with seashells; something which is set with > pearls. . b.12 f.1 > p.10| > hualnepanoa , nic-. I come to join it. caus06 +post.as.noun.1>. b.11 f.26 p.267| > huitoliuhcanepaniuhqui. cruzero; crucero. poss-pan-v03a-prt1-c2 +post.as.noun.1>. 55m-4| > huitoliuhcanepanolli. cruzero. caus06-l1 +post.as.noun.1>. 55m-4| > huitoliuhcanepanolli [scribal error: ??printing error: > vitoliuhcaneponolli for vitoliuhcanepanolli: 71m1]. crucero. > . > 71m1-6| > icanhuiani =tla. el que va tras otros, acompa¤ando los. v05b-ni1 +post.as.noun.1>. 71m2-21| > icxinetechhuia =nino [[ocxinetechuia =nin]]. cutir el vn touillo con > el otro caminando, i, herir o ludir el vn touillo con el otro > lastimandose. +post.as.noun.1 +z>x +a>i>. 71m1-6| > icxinetechhuia =nino=oninocxinetechhuih. ludir el vn^touillo conel > otro lastimandose el que camina. +post.as.noun.1 +z>x +a>i>. 71m2-6| > ixnepanilhuia =nitetla=onitetlaixnepanilhuih. aforrar algo a otro. > . 71m2- > 8| > ixnepanoa =nite=oniteixnepanoh. encontrarse cara a^cara el varon > conla muger sin aduertir enello. caus06 +post.as.noun.1>. 71m2-8| > ixnepanoa =nitla. aforrar algo; doblar o aforrar algo; enforrar > vestidura. . > 55m-00| > ixnepanoa =nitla=onitlaixnepanoh. aforrar algo, o doblar la manta, o > juntar la vna conla otra. +post.as.noun.1>. 71m2-8| > ixnepanolli =tla. aforrada cosa; cosa aforrada; o cosa juntada vna > con otra; doblada cosa assi (assi is doblar o aforrar algo); > enforrada assi (assi is enforrar vestidura). v03a-caus06-l1 +post.as.noun.1>. 55m-00| > mahtlactlanepanolli. ten divisions. caus06-l1 +post.as.noun.1>. b.10 f.10 p.169| > manepanoa =nino. desposarse; iuntar las manos. pan-v03a-caus06 +kin +post.as.noun.1>. 55m-6| > manepanoa =nino=oninomanepanoh. casarse, desposarse, o juntar las > manos. . > 71m2-9| > manepanoa =nite. desposar a otro; desposar o casar. poss-pan-v03a-caus06 +kin +post.as.noun.1>. 55m-6| > manepanoa =nite=onitemanepanoh. casar a otros, o juntarles las manos. > . 71m2-9| > manepanohqui =mo. desposado. +kin +post.as.noun.1>. 55m-6| > manepanohqui =mo [scribal error: ??printing error: > momanepanoquimonamictiqui for momanepanoqui. monamictiqui; porrua > and 1944 facsimile have the same error; 1555 has momanepanoqui. > monamictiqui: 71m1]. desposado. prt1-c2 +kin +post.as.noun.1>. 71m1-8| > manepanohqui =mo. desposado o desposada. caus06-prt1-c2 +kin +post.as.noun.1>. 71m2-10| > manepanoliztli =ne. desposorio. +kin +post.as.noun.1>. 71m1-8| > namictihqui =mo [scribal error: ??printing error: > momanepanoquimonamictiqui for momanepanoqui. monamictiqui; porrua > and 1944 facsimile have the same error; 1555 has momanepanoqui. > monamictiqui: 71m1]. desposado. +post.as.noun.1>. 71m1-8| > nenepanilhuia =nictla. diferentes y diuersas medicinas aplicar a la > enfermedad que va creciendo. ben +fusion +post.as.noun.1>. 71m1-8| > nenepaniuhqui. . . b.12 > f.1 p.10| > nenepaniuhtica. crossing each other. ca:1a aux11a +post.as.noun.1>. b.11 f.23 p.235| > nenepaniuhtoc. it is intercrossed. prt2 aux13 +post.as.noun.1>. b.6 f.5 p.53| > nenepanoa , mo-. they join together. +post.as.noun.1>. b.11 f.24 p.248| > nenepanoa =nitla. encorporar o mezclar vna cosa con otra; mesturar; > mezclar. . 71m1- > 9| > nenepanoa =nitla=onitlanenepanoh. juntar mezclar, o reboluer vna cosa > con otra. . 71m2- > 12| > nenepanoaya , qui-. they joined it together. caus06-ya3 +post.as.noun.1>. b.2 f.9 p.157| > nenepanohtihuetzi , mo-. . huetzi aux03 +post.as.noun.1>. b.3 f.2 p.28| > nenepanohtoqueh , mo-. they lay mixed up. caus06-prt1-ti1-o-plur01 aux13 +post.as.noun.1>. b.12 f.5 p.72| > nenepanoliztica =tla. mezcladamente. liz-ti1-ca2 +post.as.noun.1>. 55m-13| > nenepanoliztli =tla. mezcla assi (assi is mezcladamente). poss-pan-v03a-caus06-liz +post.as.noun.1>. 55m-13| > nenepanolli =tla. mesturada cosa; mezclada cosa. v03a-caus06-l1 +post.as.noun.1>. 55m-13| > nenepanolli. assorted; mixed; mixed together. caus06-l1 +post.as.noun.1>. b.10 f.4 p.70| > nenepantic. joined together. . > b.11 f.20 p.199| > nepanhuia =nic. mercar en vno. +post.as.noun.1>. 55m-13| > nepanhuihqueh , qui-. . +post.as.noun.1>. b.12 f.5 p.73| > nepanihui in notlahtol =ahmo huel. discordar en lo que se dize. mo: huel1 poss-pan-v03a in poss-p51-ihtahui-caus06-l1 > +post.as.noun.1>. 55m-20| > nepanihui in totlahtol =ahmo. discordar en parecer o voto; discordia > en dar pareceres o votos; dissension. p51-ihtahui-caus06-l1 +post.as.noun.1>. 55m-6| > nepanilhuia =nitetla. doblar la pena. caus06-ben +post.as.noun.1>. 55m-6| > nepanilhuia =nitetla [[tlanepanilhuia =nite]]. doblar la pena y el > castigo. +post.as.noun.1>. 71m1-8| > nepanilhuia =nitetla=onitetlanepanilhuih. castigar a otro con doblado > castigo. . > 71m2-12| > nepanilhuia =tictla. tirar dos juntamente y acertar ambos alo que > tiran. . 55m- > 19| > nepaniuhca =i. iunta de dos rios. +post.as.noun.1>. 55m-11| > nepaniuhca in cruz =i. el brazo dela cruz. ca:5 in ++cruz +spanish +post.as.noun.1>. 71m2-7| > nepaniuhca in ome atoyatl =i. junta de dos rios. prt1-ca:5 in o:me a:tl1-toya:hui +post.as.noun.1>. 71m2-7| > nepaniuhcatlatzacuiltia =nite. doblar la pena; doblar la pena y el > castigo. +post.as.noun.1>. 55m-6| > nepaniuhcatlatzacuiltia =nite=onitenepaniuhcatlatzacuiltih. castigar > a otro con doblado castigo. tzacui-caus01 +post.as.noun.1>. 71m2-12| > nepaniuhqui. crosswoven; interspersed. +post.as.noun.1>. b.10 f.11 p.180| > nepaniuhtoc. it is intercrossed. +post.as.noun.1>. b.6 f.3 p.30| > nepanoa , con-. it joins it; it places it together. v03a-caus06 +post.as.noun.1>. b.11 f.26 p.267| > nepanoa , mo-. it is joined, it is added; they join in. v03a-caus06 +post.as.noun.1>. b.7 f.2 p.25| > nepanoa , nic-. I join it. +post.as.noun.1>. b.11 f.26 p.267| > nepanoa , nocon-. I join it. +post.as.noun.1>. b.11 f.26 p.267| > nepanoa =nite. ayuntarse carnalmente a muger; ayuntarse carnalmente > el varon con la muger; echarse con muger. per metapbora > {??printing error: metapbora for metaphora}; echarse con > muger; reboluerse o meterse entre otros; o tener parte con muger. > . 55m-00| > nepanoa =nite=onitenepanoh. tener parte con muger, o meterse entre > otros. . 71m2-12| > nepanoa =nitla. aueriguar algo; iuntar o ayuntar vna cosa con otra. > . 55m-1| > nepanoa =nitla=onitlanepanoh. juntar vna cosa con otra, o echar vna > cosa sobre otra. . > 71m2-12| > nepanoa in atl =mo. ayuntarse los rios. a:tl1 +post.as.noun.1>. 55m-00| > nepanoa in noyollo =qui=oquinepano in noyollo. caer enla cuenta delo > que dudaua, o delo que no se acordaua. poss-yo:lli-yo:tl1 +ly>ll +post.as.noun.1>. 71m2-15| > nepanoani =tla. aueriguador; aueriguador tal (tal is aueriguar > algo); cotejador; o aueriguador de algo. ni1 +post.as.noun.1>. 55m-1| > nepanoaya , mo-. he joined in; they joined together. v03a-caus06-ya3 +post.as.noun.1>. b.2 f.2 p.62| > nepanoaya , quihual-. he joined it. ya3 +post.as.noun.1>. b.9 f.5 p.64| > nepanohtimani , mo-. they lie one over another. caus06-prt1-ti1-mani aux04 +post.as.noun.1>. b.11 f.4 p.36| > nepanoliztli , ne-. union. +post.as.noun.1>. b.6 f.11 p.129| > nepanoliztli =ne. ayuntamiento assi (assi is ayuntarse carnalmente a > muger); ayuntamiento assi (assi is ayuntarse carnalmente el varon > con la muger); copula; o ayuntamiento carnal. caus06-liz +post.as.noun.1>. 55m-00| > nepanoliztli =tla. aueriguacion; aueriguacion tal (tal is aueriguar > algo); cotejamiento assi (assi is cotejador; o aueriguador de > algo); iuntura assi (assi is iuntar o ayuntar vna cosa con otra). > . 55m-1| > nepanolli =tla. aueriguado; cosa cotejada; o aueriguada. pan-v03a-caus06-l1 +post.as.noun.1>. 55m-1| > nepanoya , mo-. they joined together. +post.as.noun.1>. b.2 f.2 p.55| > nepanoz , tic-. you will join it, you will compare it. pan-v03a-caus06-z +post.as.noun.1>. b.6 f.17 p.215| > netechhuia , mo-. ; they fight with each other; they quarrel with > each other; they contend against one another. +post.as.noun.1>. b.7 f.2 p.17| > netechhuia =tito. re¤ir vnos con otros. tratarse mal vnos a otros los > vezinos y parientes. . > 71m1-18| > netechhuia =tito=otitonetechhuihqueh. contender y tratarse mal^los de > vna parentela o familia. +post.as.noun.1>. 71m2-12| > netechhuia in mahhua =mo. re¤ir vnos con otros. in p54-ahhua +embed +post.as.noun.1>. 55m-17| > netechhuia in mahhua =mo [scribal error: ??printing error: monetechuia > ymmaua for monetechuia yn:maua; the colon is unclear -- maybe a bad > typeface: 71m1]. re¤ir vnos con otros. tratarse mal vnos a otros > los vezinos y parientes. +kin +post.as.noun.1>. 71m1-18| > netechhuia in mahhua =mo=omonetechhuihqueh [scribal error: ??note that > the preterit does not repeat the full phrase (i.e., "in mahhua" is > left unstated): 71m2]. . tech1-v05b in p54-ahhua +embed +post.as.noun.1>. 71m2-10| > netechoa =nitla. allegar vna cosa a otra; arrimar algo a otra cosa. > . 71m1-2| > netechoa =nitla=onitlanetechoh. . p51-poss-tech1-v03a-caus06 +post.as.noun.1>. 71m2-12| > netechoani =tla. arrimador tal (tal is arrimar algo a otra cosa). > . 71m1-2| > netecholli =tla. arrimada cosa assi (assi is arrimar algo a otra > cosa). . 71m1-2| > ohnepanolco. encrucijada de caminos. co1 +post.as.noun.1>. 71m2-13| > omome , mahtlactlanepanolli -. twelve divisions. pan-v03a-caus06-l1 om-o:me +post.as.noun.1>. b.10 f.10 p.169| > paniuhtoc =cuahuitl ne. cruz; cruz de palo. prt1-ti1-o-prt2 aux13 +post.as.noun.1>. 55m-4| > quequetolnepanihui =ni. doler las enzias. v03a .bbbb +post.as.noun.1>. 55m-6| > quequetolnepanihui =ni=oniquequetolnepaniuh. dolerme las enzias. dupl-quetolli-poss-pan-v03a .bbbb +post.as.noun.1>. 71m2-15| > quequetolnepanihuiliztli. dolencia tal (tal is doler las enzias). > . 71m1-8| > quequetolnepaniuhqui. doliente assi (assi is doler las enzias); > enfermo delas enzias. +post.as.noun.1>. 55m-6| > techhuia =nite. estar cerca. . > 55m-9| > tenxinepanolli , tla-. . +post.as.noun.1>. b.2 f.2 p.60| > tlahpaloa =nepanotl tito. saludarse vno a otro. l2 p21-p54-tlahpalli-v03a-caus06 +post.as.noun.1>. 55m-18| > tlahtolnepanoa =ahmo tito. discordar en lo que se dize; discordia en > dar pareceres o votos; dissension. caus06-l1-poss-pan-v03a-caus06 +post.as.noun.1>. 55m-20| > tlahtolnepanoa =mo=omotlatolnepanoque. ser concordes enlo que dizen. > . > 71m2-10| > tontenepanoa. . <+post.as.noun.1>. b.9 f.2 p.13| > tzacuiltiliztli =nepantic tetla. doblada pena; doblada pena assi > (assi is doblar la pena y el castigo); doblado castigo. tic p52-p51-tzacui-caus01-liz +post.as.noun.1>. 55m-6| > xinepanoa =nitla. entretexer; texer vno con otro como esteras o cosa > assi. . 55m-8| > xinepanoa =nitla [scribal error: ??xinepanoa is put on the next line > as an irregular overflow: 71m1]. texer vno con otro como esteras o > cosa assi. . > 71m1-20| > xinepanoa =nitla=onitlaxinepanoh [[tlaxinepanoa =ni=onitlaxinepano]]. > entretexer algo. +prob +post.as.noun.1>. 71m2-25| > xinepanoa =nitla=onitlaxinepano. entretexer como haziendo esteras, o > seto, o cosa semejante. +post.as.noun.1>. 71m2-27| > xinepanoani =tla. entretexedor; texedor tal (tal is texer vno con > otro como esteras o cosa assi). +post.as.noun.1>. 71m2-25| > xinepanoh =tla. entretexedor de algo; texedor tal (tal is texer vno > con otro como esteras o cosa assi). prt1 +post.as.noun.1>. 71m2-25| > xinepanoliztli =tla [scribal error: ??: 55m]. texedura assi (assi is > texer vno con otro como esteras o cosa assi). caus06-liz +post.as.noun.1>. 55m-19| > xinepanoliztli =tla. texedura assi (texer vno con otro como esteras > o cosa assi); entretexedura; o el acto de entretexer. pan-v03a-caus06-liz +post.as.noun.1>. 71m1-20| > xinepanolli =tla. cosa entretexida; entretexida cosa; texido desta > manera (desta manera is texer vno con otro como esteras o cosa > assi). . 71m2-25| > > count 228 > > *post.as.noun.2 *** > aahhuictlaza =nite. echar de aca para aculla a alguno, empuxandolo. > . 71m1-9| > ahhuichuetzi =n. caerse a vna parte y a otra. +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-2| > ahhuichuetzi =n=onahhuichuetz. bambanearse. +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-2| > ahhuictlaloa =nin=oninahhuictlaloh. correr de aca para aculla. p54-ah1-hui:c-tlaloa: +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-2| > ahhuictlaz =te. arrojador tal (tal is arrojar o empuxar a alguno de > aca para alla). . 71m1- > 3| > ahhuictlaza =nin. bueltas dar en la cama; bueltas o buelcos dar en la > cama. . 55m-2| > ahhuictlaza =nin=oninahuictlaz. desasossegarse el enfermo dando > buelcos del dolor que padece. +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-2| > ahhuictlaza =nite. arrojar o empuxar a alguno de aca para alla; echar > de aca para aculla a alguno; empuxandolo. +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-3| > ahhuictlazaliztli =te. arrojamiento assi (assi is arrojar o empuxar > a alguno de aca para alla). +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-3| > ahhuictlazalli =tla. echado assi (assi is echar de aca para aculla a > alguno, empuxandolo). . > 71m1-9| > ahhuictlaztli =tla. arrojado assi (assi is arrojar o empuxar a > alguno de aca para alla); echado assi (assi is echar de aca para > aculla a alguno; empuxandolo). +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-3| > ahhuictopehua =nite. arrojar o empuxar a alguno de aca para alla. > . 71m1-3| > ahhuictopehualiztli =te. arrojamiento assi (assi is arrojar o > empuxar a alguno de aca para alla). +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-3| > ahhuictopeuh =te. arrojador tal (tal is arrojar o empuxar a alguno > de aca para alla). . > 71m1-3| > ahhuictopeuhtli =tla. arrojado assi (assi is arrojar o empuxar a > alguno de aca para alla). +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-3| > ahhuicyaliztli. bambaneamiento, o vagueacion. +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-2| > ahhuicyani. vagamundo. . 71m2- > 2| > ahhuicyauh =n. caerse a vna parte y a otra. +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-2| > ahhuicyauh =n=onahhuicya. vaguear, o ser vagamundo. yauh1 +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-2| > cepanahhua =mo. re¤ir vnos con otros. tratarse mal vnos a otros los > vezinos y parientes. . 71m1- > 18| > huechiliztli =ahhuic. cayda a vna parte y a otra; bambaneamiento. > ch +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-2| > huetzqui =ahhuic. caydo assi (assi is cayda a vna parte y a otra). > . 55m-2| > huictlazani =te. echador tal (tal is echar de aca para aculla a > alguno, empuxandolo). . 71m1- > 9| > huictlazqui =te. echador tal (tal is echar de aca para aculla a > alguno, empuxandolo). . > 71m1-9| > icanihtoani =te. murmurador. +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-16| > icanihtoh =te. murmurador. +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-16| > icanihtoliztli =te. murmuracion. +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-16| > icxinetechmotla =nino [[ocxinetechmotla =nin]]. cutir el vn touillo > con el otro caminando, i, herir o ludir el vn touillo con el otro > lastimandose. x +a>i > +mis_analysis.2 +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-6| > icxinetechmotla =nino=oninocxinetechmotlac. ludir el vn^touillo conel > otro lastimandose el que camina. +embed +z>x +a>i +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-6| > milnetechana =nite. alindar vna eredad con otra. tech1-a:na1 +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-00| > milnetechana =nite=onitemilnetechan. alindar mi heredad con la de > otro. . 71m2- > 10| > nehuammana , quin-. he places them together. caus09 +embed +post.as.noun.2>. b.6 f.4 p.45| > nehuammanaya , quin-. they placed them together. mani-caus09-ya3 +embed +post.as.noun.2>. b.9 f.7 p.88| > nehuanhuihuixoa =nitla. mecer vno con otro. huixahui-caus06 +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-13| > nehuanhuihuixoa =nitla=onitlanehuanhuihuixo. sacudir, o menear y > mecer dos cosas juntamente. caus06 +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-12| > nehuanhuihuixoani =tla. mecedor tal (tal is mecer vno con otro). > . > 55m-13| > nehuanhuihuixoliztli =tla. mecedura tal (tal is mecer vno con otro); > el acto de sacudir o mecer algunas cosas juntamente. hua:n1-dupl-huixahui-caus06-liz +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-13| > nehuanhuihuixolli =tla. mecido assi (assi is mecer vno con otro); > cosas sacudidas o mecidas juntamente. caus06-l1 +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-13| > nehuanilpia =nite. atraillar perros o cosas semejantes. hua:n1-ilpia: +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-3| > nehuanilpia =nitla. atar una cosa con otra; atar vna cosa con otra. > . 55m-1| > nehuanilpia =nitla=onitlanehuanilpih. atar vna cosa con otra. p51-poss-hua:n1-ilpia: +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-12| > nehuanilpiani =tla. atrauillador tal (tal is atraillar perros o > cosas semejantes). +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-3| > nehuanilpiliztli =tla. atadura assi (assi is atar una cosa con > otra); atadura tal (tal is atar vna cosa con otra); atadura de vna > cosa con otra. . > 55m-1| > nehuanilpilli =tla. atada cosa assi (assi is atar vna cosa con > otra); cosa atada juntamente con otra. +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-3| > nehuanilpiltih =tla. atrauillados assi (assi is atraillar perros o > cosas semejantes). +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-3| > nehuantenehua =niquin=oniquinnehuanteneuh. nombrar a ambos ados. > . 71m2-12| > nenepantlazohtlaltia =nite=onitenenepantlazohtlalti. hazer que se > amen vnos a otros, o hazer amistades. v08a-l1-v04-caus08 +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-12| > nenetechilpilli , tla-. something tied together. ilpia:-l1 +embed +post.as.noun.2>. b.11 f.27 p.282| > nenetechmana , mo-. they are put together. caus09 +embed +post.as.noun.2>. b.9 f.7 p.96| > nenetechtlalia , tiquimon-. we put them together. poss-tech1-tla:lia: +embed +post.as.noun.2>. b.4 f.10 p.106| > nepammatiloa =nitla. fregar vno con otro. teloa: +e>i +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-10| > nepammatiloa =nitla=onitlanepammatiloh. fregar, o refregar vna cosa > con otra. i +embed > +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-12| > nepammatiloliztli =tla. fregadura tal (tal is fregar vno con otro). > i +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 55m- > 10| > nepammatilolli =tla. fregado assi (assi is fregar vno con otro). > i +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 55m- > 10| > nepammotla =tic. tirar dos juntamente y acertar ambos alo que tiran. > . 55m-19| > nepammotla =titla=otitlanepammotlaqueh. tirar y acertar muchos > juntamente a lo que se tira. +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-12| > nepampalehuia , mo-. they help one another. +embed +post.as.noun.2>. b.6 f.20 p.251| > nepampatiyotia =nitla. mercar en vno. yo:tl1-v04-caus08 +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-13| > nepancohua =nitla. mercar en vno. +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-13| > nepanhuihuixoa =nitla. mecer vno con otro. huixahui-caus06 +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-13| > nepanhuihuixoa =nitla=onitlanepanhuihuixoh. sacudir o mecer > juntamente dos cosas. +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-12| > nepanhuihuixoani =tla. mecedor tal (tal is mecer vno con otro); > sacudidor o mecedor de algunas cosas; juntamente. huixahui-caus06-ni1 +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-13| > nepanhuihuixoliztli =tla. mecedura tal (tal is mecer vno con otro); > sacudimiento tal (tal is sacudidor o mecedor de algunas cosas; > juntamente). +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-13| > nepanhuihuixolli =tla. mecido assi (assi is mecer vno con otro); > cosa sacudida assi (assi is sacudidor o mecedor de algunas cosas; > juntamente). +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-13| > nepanicnelia =tito=otitonepanicnelihqueh. hazer bien los vnos alos > otros. . 71m2- > 12| > nepanicneliliztli =ne. beneficio que los vnos alos otros se hazen. > . 71m2-12| > nepanicnelilo =ne=onenepanicneliloc. hazense bien los vnos alos > otros. . 71m2- > 12| > nepannahuatecqueh , omo-. . <+embed +post.as.noun.2>. b.9 f.2 p.23| > nepantlahpaloa =tito. saludarse vno a otro. tlahpalli-v03a-caus06 +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-18| > nepantlahpaloa =tito=otitonepantlahpalohqueh. nepanotl titotlapaloa>. +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-12| > nepantlahpaloliztli =ne. salutacion assi (assi is saludarse vno a > otro); salutacion de vnos a otros. caus06-liz +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-18| > nepantlapopolhuiah =mo=omonepantlapopolhuihqueh. los que se perdonan > vnos a otros. +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-10| > nepantlaxeloaya , mo-. they divided themselves into two equal parts. > . > b.2 f.7 p.119| > nepantlazohtla =mo. los que entre si se aman. l2-v08a +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-10| > nepantlazohtlaliztli =ne. amor con que se aman los vnos alos otros. > . 71m2-12| > nepantlazohtlalo =ne. amarse vnos a otros. v08a-lo:1 +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-12| > nepantlazohtlaya , mo-. they esteemed each other; they loved each > other. . > b.9 f.2 p.23| > nepantzahtzilia =tito=otitonepantzahtzilihqueh. llamar o dar bozes > losvnos alos otros, o prouocarse a dar priesa los que trabajan. p54-poss-pan-tzahtzi-ben +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-12| > nepanxacualoa =nitla. fregar vno con otro. v03a-caus06 +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-10| > nepanxacualoa =nitla=onitlanepanxacualoh. fregar o refregar vna cosa > con otra. +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-12| > nepanxacualoliztli =tla. fregadura tal (tal is fregar vno con otro); > refregadura de vna cosa con otra. liz +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-10| > nepanxacualolli =tla. fregado assi (assi is fregar vno con otro); > cosa refregada assi (assi is refregadura de vna cosa con otra). > . 55m- > 10| > netechachalatza =mo=omonetechachalatz. cutir, o herirse vnas cosas > con otras. ch +embed > +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-10| > netechachalatza =nitla. cutir vna vasija con otra. tech1-dupl-chala:ni-tza +chch>ch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-6| > netechachalatza =nitla=onitlanetechachalatz. cutir o herir vna cosa > con otra. ch +embed > +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-12| > netechachalatzaliztli =tla. herida o el acto de herir o cutir vnas > cosas con otras. ch > +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-22| > netechahhua =mo. re¤ir vnos con otros. +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-17| > netechahhua =mo [scribal error: ??printing error: moueteehaua for > monetechaua: 71m1]. re¤ir vnos con otros. tratarse mal vnos a otros > los vezinos y parientes. +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-18| > netechahhua =mo=omonetechahhuaqueh. re¤ir vnos con otros. tech1-ahhua +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-10| > netechahxitia =nitla. hazer llegar vna cosa a otra juntandolas. p51-poss-tech1-ahci-caus02 +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-12| > netechahxitia =nitla=onitlanetechahxiti. hazer llegar, o juntar vna > cosa con otra. +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-12| > netechahxitiani =tla. hazedor tal (tal is hazer llegar vna cosa a > otra juntandolas). +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-12| > netechahxitihqui =tla. hazedor tal (tal is hazer llegar vna cosa a > otra juntandolas). +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-12| > netechalania , te-. he arouses bad feeling among people. tech1-chala:ni-caus08 +embed +chch>ch +post.as.noun.2>. b.11 f.6 > p.52| > netechalania =mo. cutir vn hueuo con otro, o cosa assi. tech1-chala:ni-caus08 +chch>ch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-6| > netechalania =mo=omonetechalani. cutir, o herirse vnas cosas con > otras. ch +embed > +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-10| > netechalania =nite. desconcertar o enemistar a otros; discordia > poner. ch +embed > +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-7| > netechalania =nite [scribal error: ??printing error: netechalama =nite > for netechalania =nite; porrua has 'm', but the facsimile (1944) has > 'ni': 71m1]. reboluer o turbar a otros. chala:ni-caus08 +chch>ch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-18| > netechalania =nite [scribal error: ??printing error: netechalama, nite > for netechalania, nite; 1944 facsimile has the correct form, but the > porrua edition contains the misreading of "ni" as "m": 71m1]. > sembrar discordias. ch > +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-19| > netechalania =nite=onitenetechalani. reboluer a otros. tech1-chala:ni-caus08 +chch>ch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-12| > netechalania =nitla. cutir vn hueuo con otro, o cosa assi; cutir vna > vasija con otra; herir vna cosa con otra. chala:ni-caus08 +chch>ch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-6| > netechalania =nitla=onitlanetechalanih. cutir o herir vna cosa con > otra. ch +embed > +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-12| > netechalania =tito. contender vnos con otros; debatir o porfiar y > contender vnos con otros; porfiar o debatir vnos con otros. poss-tech1-chala:ni-caus08 +chch>ch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1- > 5| > netechalania =tito=otitonetechalanihqueh. contender vnos con otros. > ch +embed > +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-12| > netechalaniani =te. reboluedor que mete mal entre otros. tech1-chala:ni-caus08-ni1 +chch>ch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2- > 17| > netechalaniliztli =te. desconcierto tal (tal is desconcertar a otros > enemistandolos). ch > +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-5| > netechalaniliztli =tla. herida assi (assi is herir vna cosa con > otra). ch +embed > +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-13| > netechalaniliztli =te. el acto de reboluer a otros assi. s. aquella > contienda y discordia (assi is reboluedor que mete mal entre > otros). ch +embed > +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-17| > netechalaniliztli =tla. el acto de herir o cutir vna cosa con otra. > ch +embed > +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-22| > netechalanilli =tla. cosa herida o cutida con otra. chala:ni-caus08=0-l1 +chch>ch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-22| > netechanaya , mo-. they were paired with each other. a:na1-ya3 +embed +post.as.noun.2>. b.9 f.7 p.88| > netechantihui =ti=otinetechantiaque. yr asidos vnos de otros. tech1-a:na1-prt1-ti1-yauh2 aux14b +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-12| > netechantimani xocomecamilli =mo. pago de vi¤as o vi¤edo. tech1-a:na1-prt1-ti1-mani xocotl-mecatl-mi:lli aux04 +embed > +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-15| > netechantiuh =omotechantia [scribal error: ??multiple problems: 1) ne- > does not appear in the preterit; 2) mo- does not appear in the > present; molina usually uses first person form unless the action is > obviously not a human one: 71m2]. yr seguido y junto lo vno con lo > otro. +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-12| > netechantiuh =mo. yr alguna cosa seguida o continuada, o eslauonada. > . > 71m2-10| > netechcacalatza =mo. herirse vnas cosas con otras. dupl-cala:ni1-tza +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-11| > netechcacalatza =mo=omonetechcacalatz. lo mismo es que > motechachalatza. +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-10| > netechcacalatzaliztli =tla. herida assi (assi is herirse vnas cosas > con otras); . dupl-cala:ni1-tza-liz +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-11| > netechcalania =nitla. herir vna cosa con otra (tal is herir con > vara); herir vna cosa con otra. +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-11| > netechcalania =nitla=onitlanetechcalani. cutir, o herir vna cosa con > otra. . > 71m2-12| > netechcalaniliztli =tla. herida assi (assi is herir vna cosa con > otra); . cala:ni1-caus08=0-liz +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-11| > netechchachalatza =mo. herirse vnas cosas con otras. dupl-chala:ni-tza +chch>chch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-11| > netechchachalatza =nitla. cutir vna vasija con otra. tech1-dupl-chala:ni-tza +chch>chch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-4| > netechchachalatzaliztli =tla. herida assi (assi is herirse vnas > cosas con otras). chch > +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-11| > netechchalania =mo. cutir vno con otro; tocar vna vasija con otra. > chch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. > 55m-4| > netechchalania =nite. desconcertar a otros enemistandolos; discordia > poner. ch +embed > +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-5| > netechchalania =nitla. cutir vna vasija con otra; herir vna cosa con > otra (tal is herir con vara); quebrar vna cosa a otra; quebrar vna > cosa con otra. chch +embed > +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-4| > netechchalaniani =te. malsin. +chch>chch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-13| > netechchalaniliztli =tla. herida assi (assi is herir vna cosa con > otra). chch +embed > +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-11| > netechchalanilli =tla. desconcertado assi (assi is desconcertar a > otros enemistandolos). ch > +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-5| > netechchihchiqui =nitla. ludir o fregar vna cosa con otra. poss-tech1-dupl-ihchiqui +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-12| > netechehua =nite. desconcertar a otros enemistandolos; desconcertar o > enemistar a otros; discordia poner; reboluer o turbar a otros; > sembrar discordias. +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-5| > netechehua =nite=onitenetecheuh. ser malsin, o reboluer a otros. p52-poss-tech1-e:hua +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-12| > netechehua =nitla. ludir o fregar vna cosa con otra. tech1-e:hua +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-12| > netechehua =nitla=onitlanetecheuh. refregar vna cosa con otra. p51-poss-tech1-e:hua +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-12| > netechehua =te. chismero. +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-4| > netechehualiztli =te. desconcierto tal (tal is desconcertar a otros > enemistandolos); desconcierto tal (tal is desconcertar o enemistar > a otros); (assi is reboluedor > que mete mal entre otros). +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-5| > netechehuani =te. desconcertador assi (assi is desconcertar o > enemistar a otros); lo mesmo es que netechalaniani; malsin; > reboluedor que mete mal entre algunos. +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-7| > netecheuh =te. lo mesmo es que netechalaniani. +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-17| > netecheuhtinemi , te-. he goes about causing dissension. tech1-e:hua-ti1-nemi aux01 +embed +post.as.noun.2>. b.4 f.3 p.30| > netecheuhtli =tla. desconcertado assi (assi is desconcertar a otros > enemistandolos). . > 55m-5| > netechhuitequi =nitla. herir vna cosa con otra (tal is herir con > vara); herir vna cosa con otra. +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-11| > netechhuitequi =nitla=onitlanetechhuitec. herir vna cosa con otra. > . 71m2-12| > netechhuitequiliztli =tla. herida assi (assi is herir vna cosa con > otra); herida o encuentro de vna cosa con otra. hui:tequi-liz +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-11| > netechihchiqui =nitla. ludir o fregar vna cosa con otra. poss-tech1-dupl-ihchiqui +chch>ch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-14| > netechihchiqui =nitla=onitlanetechichic. refregar vna cosa con otra. > ch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. > 71m2-12| > netechihtzoma =nitla. coser vna cosa con otra. ihtzoma +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-4| > netechihtzoma =nitla=onitlanetechitzon. coser vna cosa con otra. p51-poss-tech1-ihtzoma +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-12| > netechihtzomani =tla. cosedor tal (tal is coser vna cosa con otra). > . 71m1-6| > netechihtzonqui =tla. cosedor tal (tal is coser vna cosa con otra). > . 71m1-6| > netechihtzontli , tla-. something sewn together. ihtzoma-l2 +embed +post.as.noun.2>. b.2 f.9 p.156| > netechihtzontli =tla. cosida cosa assi (assi is coser vna cosa con > otra). . 71m1-6| > netechilpia , con-. they tie it together. +embed +post.as.noun.2>. b.6 f.11 p.131| > netechilpia , quin-. they tie them together. +embed +post.as.noun.2>. b.6 f.11 p.131| > netechilpia =nite. atraillar perros o cosa assi; atraillar perros o > cosas semejantes. +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-1| > netechilpia =nitla. atar una cosa con otra; atar vna cosa con otra. > . 55m-1| > netechilpia =nitla=onitlanetechilpi. atar vna cosa con otra, o > trayllar galgos. &c. +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-12| > netechilpiani =te. atrauillador tal (tal is atraillar perros o cosas > semejantes). . > 71m1-3| > netechilpiani =tla. atrauillador tal (tal is atraillar perros o > cosas semejantes). +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-3| > netechilpiaya , quine-. they tied it together. ilpia:-ya3 +embed +post.as.noun.2>. b.1 f.2 p.47| > netechilpih , otech-. he tied us together. prt1 +embed +post.as.noun.2>. b.6 f.12 p.146| > netechilpiliztli =tla. atadura assi (assi is atar una cosa con > otra); atadura tal (tal is atar vna cosa con otra); el acto de atar > vna cosa con otra. +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-1| > netechilpilli =tla. atada cosa assi (assi is atar vna cosa con > otra); cosa atada a otra; o con otra. +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-3| > netechilpiltin =tla. atrauillados assi (assi is atraillar perros o > cosas semejantes). +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-3| > netechixnamiqui =tito. contender vnos con otros; debatir o porfiar y > contender vnos con otros; porfiar o debatir vnos con otros. poss-tech1-i:xtli-na:miqui +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-5| > netechixnamiqui =tito=otitonetechixnamique. contender vnos con otros. > . 71m2- > 12| > netechmictihqueh , mo-. they killed one another. miqui-caus02-prt1-plur01 +embed +post.as.noun.2>. b.12 f.5 p.72| > netechmotla =mo. cutir vno con otro; cutir vn hueuo con otro; o cosa > assi; herirse vnas cosas con otras. +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-4| > netechmotla =mo=omonetechmotlac. lo mismo es que motechachalatza. > . 71m2-10| > netechmotla =nitla. cutir vn hueuo con otro, o cosa assi; herir vna > cosa con otra (tal is herir con vara); herir vna cosa con otra; > quebrar vna cosa a otra; quebrar vna cosa con otra. tech1-mo:tla +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-6| > netechmotla =nitla=onitlanetechmotlac. cutir, o herir vna cosa con > otra. . 71m2-12| > netechmotla =tito. toparse assi ambos (assi is topar con otro no > aduertiendo). . > 55m-19| > netechmotlaliztli =tla. herida assi (assi is herir vna cosa con > otra); herida assi (assi is herirse vnas cosas con otras); mesmo es que tlanetechalanilizli>. +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-11| > netechmotlalli =tla. . tech1-mo:tla-l1 +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-22| > netechmotlani =tla. el que hiere o cute vna cosa con otra. tech1-mo:tla-ni1 +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-22| > netechnamictiliztli =tla. iuntura assi (assi is iuntar o ayuntar vna > cosa con otra). +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-11| > netechpachoa =nitla. ayuntar vna cosa a otra; allegar vna cosa a > otra; iuntar o ayuntar vna cosa con otra; ayuntar o allegar vna cosa > a otra; arrimar algo a otra cosa. caus06 +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-00| > netechpachoa =nitla=onitlanetechpacho. o arrimar algo a otra cosa>. +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-12| > netechpachoani =tla. ayuntador tal (tal is ayuntar o allegar vna > cosa a otra); arrimador tal (tal is arrimar algo a otra cosa). poss-tech1-pachihui-caus06-ni1 +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-2| > netechpacholiztli =tla. ayuntamiento assi (assi is ayuntar vna cosa > a otra); iuntura assi (assi is iuntar o ayuntar vna cosa con otra). > . 55m- > 00| > netechpacholiztli =tla [scribal error: ??same as first item in this > entry: 55m]. iuntura assi (assi is iuntar o ayuntar vna cosa con > otra). . > 55m-11| > netechpacholiztli =tla. ayuntamiento assi (assi is ayuntar o allegar > vna cosa a otra); iuntura assi (assi is iuntar o ayuntar vna cosa > con otra); el acto de ayuntar vna cosa a otra; o con otra. tech1-pachihui-caus06-liz +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-2| > netechpacholli =tla. ayuntada cosa assi (assi is ayuntar o allegar > vna cosa a otra); arrimada cosa assi (assi is arrimar algo a otra > cosa); cosa ayuntada a otra; o con otra. caus06-l1 +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-2| > netechpiqui =nitla. tupir algo. +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-20| > netechpiqui =nitla=onitlanetechpic. tupir algo. pi:qui2 +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-12| > netechtlalia =nitla. ayuntar mantas cosiendolas vnas con otras o cosa > assi; iuntar o ayuntar vna cosa con otra; ayuntar o juntar mantas > vnas con otras cosiendolas. +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-00| > netechtlalia =nitla=onitlanetechtlalih. juntar mantas cosiendolas > vnas con otras, o cosa semejante. +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-12| > netechtlaliani =tla. ayuntador tal (tal is ayuntar o juntar mantas > vnas con otras cosiendolas). +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-2| > netechtlaliliztli =tla. ayuntamiento tal (tal is ayuntar mantas > cosiendolas vnas con otras o cosa assi); iuntura assi (assi is > iuntar o ayuntar vna cosa con otra); ayuntamiento tal (tal is > ayuntar o juntar mantas vnas con otras cosiendolas); el acto de > juntar o pegar vna manta a otra; o cosa semejante. tla:lia:-liz +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-00| > netechtlalilli =tla. ayuntadas mantas assi (assi is ayuntar o juntar > mantas vnas con otras cosiendolas); cosa ayuntada o pegada assi > (assi is el acto de juntar o pegar vna manta a otra; o cosa > semejante). . > 71m1-2| > netechtlapana =nitla. cutir hueuos; quebrar vna cosa a otra; quebrar > vna cosa con otra. +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-4| > netechtlapana =nitla=onitlanetechtlapan. quebrar alguna vasija con > otra, o cosa assi. +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-12| > netechxacualoa =nite. fregar vno con otro. xacualli-v03a-caus06 +embed +chx>chx +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-12| > netechxacualoa =nitla. fregar vno con otro; ludir o fregar vna cosa > con otra. chx > +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-10| > netechxacualoliztli =tla. fregadura tal (tal is fregar vno con > otro). chx > +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-10| > netechxacualolli =tla. fregado assi (assi is fregar vno con otro). > chx > +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-10| > netechxamania =nitla. cutir hueuos. caus08 +embed +chx>chx +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-4| > netechxamania =nitla=onitlanetechaxamani. cutir o quebrar los hueuos > vnos con otros, o las xicalas y cosas semejantes. tech1-xama:ni-caus08 +embed +chx>chx +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-12| > netechyehua , te-. . ye +post.as.noun.2>. > b.10 f.2 p.38| > netechzaloa =nitla. ayuntar mantas cosiendolas vnas con otras o cosa > assi; iuntar o ayuntar vna cosa con otra; pegar dos cosas; soldar > con plomo. chz > +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-00| > netechzaloliztli =tla. ayuntamiento tal (tal is ayuntar mantas > cosiendolas vnas con otras o cosa assi); iuntura assi (assi is > iuntar o ayuntar vna cosa con otra); pegadura tal (tal is pegar dos > cosas); . v03a-caus06-liz +embed +chz>chz +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-00| > netechzalolli =tla. ; pegada cosa > assi (assi is pegar dos cosas). l1 +embed +chz>chz +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-22| > netezaloa =nitla. ayuntar o juntar mantas vnas con otras cosiendolas. > z > +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-2| > netezaloa =nitla=onitlanetezaloh. pegar o juntar vna cosa con otra. > z > +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-12| > netezaloani =tla. ayuntador tal (tal is ayuntar o juntar mantas vnas > con otras cosiendolas). +chz>z +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-2| > netezaloliztli =tla. ayuntamiento tal (tal is ayuntar o juntar > mantas vnas con otras cosiendolas). caus06-liz +embed +chz>z +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-2| > netezalolli =tla. ayuntadas mantas assi (assi is ayuntar o juntar > mantas vnas con otras cosiendolas). caus06-l1 +embed +chz>z +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-2| > pachiuhtiuh , netech-. they go pressed against us. pachihui-prt1-ti1-yauh2 aux14b +post.as.noun.2>. b.12 f.7 p.114| > quequeyolnetechmotla =nino. ludir el vn touillo con el otro,andando. > . 71m1- > 14| > quequeyolnetechmotla =nino=oninoquequeyolnetechmotlac. ludir el vn > touillo conelotro, quando caminamos y nos lastimamos. quequeyolli-poss-tech1-mo:tla +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-15| > queyolnetechmotlaliztli. ludimiento assi (assi is ludir el vn > touillo con el otro,andando). +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-14| > tecanecacayahualiz , i-. his deceit. liz +embed +post.as.noun.2>. b.11 f.7 p.69| > tecanecayahualiz , i-. his deceit. +embed +post.as.noun.2>. b.6 f.18 p.231| > teicanihtoa =nite=oniteteicanitoh. detraer, o murmurar de otros. p52-poss-i:can-ihtahui-caus06 +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-16| > tlahtlanxima , te-. they repeatedly commit adultery. +embed +post.as.noun.2>. b.4 f.5 p.51| > tlocpaihcani , te-. intercessor. +post.as.noun.2>. b.10 f.2 p.32| > topanehua , mo-. it rises above us. +post.as.noun.2>. b.11 f.11 p.107| > xocomecamilli =monetechantimani. pago de vi¤as o vi¤edo. tech1-a:na1-prt1-ti1-mani xocotl-mecatl-mi:lli aux04 +embed > +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-16| > yahqui =ahhuic. caydo assi (assi is cayda a vna parte y a otra); > caydo assi. . 55m-2| > yayaliztli =ahhuic. cayda a vna parte y a otra; bambaneamiento; o > vagueacion. . 55m-2| > zaliuhticateh. they are adhering. aux11a +post.as.noun.2>. b.4 f.10 p.106| > > count 360 > > *post.as.noun.3 *** > altepetlalli =anepantlah ca. ysla tierra cercada de agua. pan-tlah2 ca:1a a:tl1-tepe:tl-tla:lli +post.as.noun.3>. 55m-12| > anepantlah. in the middle of the water, in the middle of the lagoon. > . b.2 f.3 p.70| > calacqui =anepantlah. engolfado. c2 +post.as.noun.3>. 55m-8| > calaqui =anepantlah ni. engolfarse. +post.as.noun.3>. 55m-8| > cehuiliztli =nepantlah tonatiuh ne. siesta en el medio del dia. pan-tlah2 to:n2-v12-ti1-yauh p53-ce:tl-v11-caus08=0-liz aux14b > +post.as.noun.3>. 71m1-19| > cehuiliztli tonaltzitzicaliztli =nepantla tonatiuh ne [scribal error: > ??split??: 55m]. siesta enel medio del dia. v12-ti1-yauh -- p53-ce:tl-v11-caus08=0-liz to:n2-v12-l1-tzitzica-liz > +post.as.noun.3>. 55m-18| > chaneh =cuauhnepantlah. morador de bosque. cha:ntli-eh1 +post.as.noun.3>. 55m-14| > cuanepantlah , i-. crown of his head; crown of its head; in the > middle of his forehead; in the middle of its head; on the crown of > his head; on the crown of its head; the crown of his head; the crown > of its head. . b.8 f.5 > p.76| > cuanepantlah , in-. on the crown of their heads. pan-tlah2 +post.as.noun.3>. b.2 f.6 p.114| > cuauhnepantlah. lo interior o el medio del desierto o del monte. > . 71m2-15| > cuauhnepantlah. middle of a forest. +post.as.noun.3>. b.5 f.1 p.153| > elelquixtiloyan =nepantlah tonatiuh ne. sesteadero lugar de siesta. > ya:n aux14b +z>x +l.for.ll +post.as.noun.3>. 55m-18| > ellelquixtia =nepantlah tonatiuh nin. sestear tener la siestra; > sestear tener la siesta en algun lugar. ti1-yauh p11-p54-e:llelli-qui:za-caus02 aux14b +z>x > +post.as.noun.3>. 55m-18| > ellelquixtiliztli =nepantlah tonatiuh ne. siesta enel medio del dia; > siesta en el medio del dia. e:llelli-qui:za-caus02-liz aux14b +z>x +post.as.noun.3>. 55m-18| > huehuetzi =nepantlah. nones. +post.as.noun.3>. 55m-14| > huetzi =nepantlah. nones. . > 71m2-12| > ihcac =nepantlah. medianero como quiera; medianero; o cosa que esta > en medio de algo. . 55m- > 13| > ihcaliztli =nepantlah. medianeria desta manera (desta manera is > medianero como quiera). . > 55m-13| > ithualnepantlah. in the middle of the courtyard. tlah2 +post.as.noun.3>. b.2 f.2 p.59| > macpalnepantla , i-. . +post.as.noun.3>. b.9 f.3 p.35| > macpalnepantlah , i-. in the middle of the palm of his hand. ma:itl-icpatl-l3-poss-pan-tlah2 +post.as.noun.3>. b.9 f.3 p.34| > nemi =cuauhnepantlah. morador de bosque. nemi +post.as.noun.3>. 55m-14| > nemi =tenepantlah ni. chismear; reboluer o turbar a otros; sembrar > discordias; reboluer a otros; o ser malsin. nemi +post.as.noun.3>. 55m-4| > nemi =tenepantlah tetzalan ni=tenepantlah tetzalan oninen. el acto de > reboluer aotros o meter mal entre otros. tza:lan p11-nemi +post.as.noun.3>. 71m2-17| > nemiliztli =tenepantlah. el acto de reboluer aotros. tlah2 nemi-liz +post.as.noun.3>. 71m2-17| > nemini =tenepantlah. chismero; malsin y reboluedor de otros. poss-pan-tlah2 nemi-ni1 +post.as.noun.3>. 55m-4| > nemini =tetzalan tenepantlah. malsin; o reboltoso. poss-pan-tlah2 nemi-ni1 +post.as.noun.3>. 55m-13| > nepantlah. . . b.2 f.6 p.116| > nepantlah. medianamente assi. . 71m1- > 15| > nepantlah , i-. ; at its zenith; in the middle of it; in the midst of > it; in the center of it; its center. +post.as.noun.3>. b.6 f.16 p.203| > nepantlah , in-. among them; between them; in the middle of them; in > the midst of them. . b.12 f.3 > p.48| > nepantlah , te-. among people; in the middle of people. pan-tlah2 +post.as.noun.3>. b.1 f.1 p.5| > nepantlah , tla-. ; in the middle. +post.as.noun.3>. b.4 f.3 p.23| > nepantlah =te. en medio de algunos, o entre otros; entre algunos. > . 71m2-17| > nepantlah. among people; in the middle; in the middle of it; in the > midst of it; middle. . b.10 f.1 > p.16| > nepantlahquixtiliztli =tla. reduzimiento assi (assi is reduzir al > medio). x > +post.as.noun.3>. 55m-17| > nepantlahtectli =tla. cortada cosa assi (assi is cortar por medio). > . 71m1-5| > nepantlahtequi =nitla. cortar por medio. tequi1 +embed +post.as.noun.3>. 55m-4| > nepantlahtequi =nitla=onitlanepantlahtec. cortar algo por medio. p51-poss-pan-tlah2-tequi1 +embed +post.as.noun.3>. 71m2-12| > nepantlahtequiliztli =tla. cortadura assi (assi is cortar por > medio). . > 71m1-5| > nepantlahtlaxilia =ticto. culpa echar vno a otro; culpa echar el vno > al otro. x > +post.as.noun.3>. 55m-4| > nepantlahtlaxilia =ticto=otictonepantlahtlaxilique. echar la culpa de > algo, el vno al otro. +z>x +post.as.noun.3>. 71m2-19| > nepantlahtli. el medio entre dos estremidades; medio entre dos > estremos. . 71m2-12| > nepantlahtzayana =nitla. romper por medio. tzaya:ni-caus09 +embed +post.as.noun.3>. 55m-17| > nepantlahtzayana =nitla=onitlanepantlahtzayan. rasgar algo por medio. > . > 71m2-12| > ohnepanco. encrucijada de caminos; encruzijada de caminos. poss-pan-co1 +post.as.noun.3>. 71m2-13| > pantlah , ne-. in the middle. . b.2 > f.10 p.165| > pantlah =ne. enel medio, o en medio, o por el medio. aduerbio. pan-tlah2 +post.as.noun.3>. 71m2-12| > quetzaliztli =tenepantlah mo. medianeria desta manera (desta manera > is medianero como quiera). +post.as.noun.3>. 55m-13| > quetzani =tenepantlah mo. medianero como quiera; el que se pone > en^medio delos que ri¤en para poner los empaz. p54-quetza-ni1 +post.as.noun.3>. 55m-13| > quixtia =nepantlah nic. reduzir al medio. qui:za-caus02 +z>x +post.as.noun.3>. 55m-17| > quixtia =nepantlah nic=nepantlah oniquixtih. reduzir algo al medio. > x +post.as.noun.3>. 71m2- > 12| > quiza titlantli =nepantlah. mensajero entre dos; mensagero entre dos. > . 55m-13| > quizani , tenepantlah -. one who settles quarrels. tlah2 qui:za-ni1 +post.as.noun.3>. b.10 f.1 p.15| > teca =tenepantlah nino. chismear; reboluer o turbar a otros; sembrar > discordias. . 55m- > 4| > teca =tenepantlah nino=tenepantlah oninotecac. el acto de reboluer > aotros o meter mal entre otros. +post.as.noun.3>. 71m2-17| > tecani , tenepantlah mo-. one who sows discord among people. poss-pan-tlah2 p54-te:ca-ni1 +post.as.noun.3>. b.10 f.1 p.7| > tecani =tenepantlah mo. chismero; malsin y reboluedor de otros. poss-pan-tlah2 p54-te:ca-ni1 +post.as.noun.3>. 55m-4| > tecani =tetzalan tenepantlah mo. malsin; malsin que mete mal entre > otros. +post.as.noun.3>. 55m-13| > tecatinemi , tenepantlah mo-. he goes along gossiping. tlah2 p54-te:ca-ti1-nemi aux01 +post.as.noun.3>. b.11 f.8 p.79| > tecaya , tetzalan tenepantlah mo-. he brought discord among people. > . > b.1 f.1 p.5| > tenepantlah ninoquetza =tetzalan=tetzalan tenepantlah oninoquetz. > poner paz entre los que ri¤en, o se acuchillan. poss-pan-tlah2 p11-p54-quetza +post.as.noun.3>. 71m2-19| > tenepantlah ninoteca =tetzalan=tetzalan tenepantlah oninotecac. ser > malsin y meter mal entre otros. p11-p54-te:ca +post.as.noun.3>. 71m2-19| > teochihualiztli =yohualnepantlah ne. maitines. tlah2 p53-teo:tl-chi:hua-liz +post.as.noun.3>. 55m-13| > tequiliztli =tenepantlah ne. el acto de reboluer aotros. pan-tlah2 p53-te:ca-liz +a>i +post.as.noun.3>. 71m2-17| > teteca =tenepantlah nino=tenepantlah oninotetecac. el acto de > reboluer aotros o meter mal entre otros. p54-dupl-te:ca +post.as.noun.3>. 71m2-17| > tianquiznepantlah. in the middle of the market place. lizb-poss-pan-tlah2 +post.as.noun.3>. b.3 f.2 p.27| > titlantli =nepantlahquiza. mensajero entre dos. qui:za ti:tlani-l2 +post.as.noun.3>. 71m1-15| > tlanepantlahquixtia , tla-. he reduces something to medium. poss-pan-tlah2-qui:za-caus02 +embed +post.as.noun.3>. b.10 f.2 > p.29| > tlanepantlahtequini =tla. cortador tal (tal is cortar por medio). > . 71m1- > 5| > tonalli =nepantlah. medio dia; media dia. l1 +post.as.noun.3>. 55m-13| > tonatiuh , nepantlah -. at midday; noon. ti1-yauh2 aux14b +post.as.noun.3>. b.1 f.2 p.31| > tonatiuh =nepantlah. medio dia; media dia. ti1-yauh2 aux14b +post.as.noun.3>. 55m-13| > tonatiuh neelelquixtiloyan =nepantlah [scribal error: > ??neelelquixtiloyan for neellelquixtiloyan: 71m1]. sesteadero lugar > de siesta. caus02-lo:2-ya:n aux14b +z>x +l.for.ll +post.as.noun.3>. 71m1-19| > yoalnepantlah. media noche, o amedia noche. +del.w +post.as.noun.3>. 71m2-7| > yoalnepantlah. at midnight; midnight; in the middle of the night. > . b.2 f.10 p.170| > yohualnepantlah. a^media noche; media noche; o amedia noche. l1-poss-pan-tlah2 +post.as.noun.3>. 71m1-2| > yohualnepantlah. at midnight; midnight; in the middle of the night. > . b.2 f.10 p.158| > > count 283 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Sat Nov 21 02:48:38 2009 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 21:48:38 -0500 Subject: Tloc, nahuac, tech, tlan In-Reply-To: <000601ca6a1e$89bae310$9d30a930$@net.mx> Message-ID: Quoting David Wright : > Joe: > > > > I was a bit puzzled by the "poss" label for the ne element in these > constructions, having previously only conceived of this morpheme as an > "indefinite reflexive prefix." Then I saw Andrews' brief treatment of this > as a "reciprocative possessor morph" meaning "one another's" and "each > other's" (Introduction to classical Nahuatl, 2nd. ed., p. 107). He says this > morpheme is "highly infrequent" and has a "more restricted meaning" than the > homophonous indefinite reflexive prefix (which he labels "a shuntline > reflexive/reciprocative-object morph" in his text [p. 57] and, mercifully, > "reflexive pronoun" in the index [p. 671]). Examples aren't provided in the > places I just cited, although he discusses nepan on pp. 484 and 485: "*nepan > = on one another, over one another [This NNC, whose possessor pronoun shows > reciprocal possession, occurs only as an imbed and as the source for the > adjectival NNC nepa:pan (...)]." So a bit of light begins to shine through > my mental fog. > I enjoyed reading your message, David. It also brought to mind a few possible uses of this, and I don't know if Andrews mentions these or not since his index is sometimes useless. In any event, here's what I remember: tonehuan, amonehuan, innehuan 'we/us two', 'you two', they/them two'. This ne- is also seen, I *think*, in necoc and necoccampa 'on both sides, from both sides'. Yeah, this is surely the same animal since we can also say nenecoc with basically the same meaning but implying more people, more things. Best, Michael _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Sat Nov 21 13:40:38 2009 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 08:40:38 -0500 Subject: running or racing Message-ID: Que lastima! In rereading this morning a message from Susana I noticed that I failed to write "h" in some of these "dance" terms below. -ihtohtia is the correct form. Racing while dancing. Michael ============================================================================== Nimitzihtotia "I dance with you,"literally "I dance you" Ninihtohtia "I dance" literally "I dance myself" (actually these forms are nimitzihto:tia: and ninihto:htia:...but for now we'll leave the long vowel markings to those, including myself :-), who are concerned with such things.) Netotiliztli is the correct form for the deverbal noun meaning "dancing," _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Sat Nov 21 14:05:41 2009 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 09:05:41 -0500 Subject: running or racing In-Reply-To: <20091121084038.oc9fpfw7kc44cc04@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: And with a long o:, of course. Quoting Michael McCafferty : > Que lastima! > > In rereading this morning a message from Susana I noticed that I failed > to write "h" in some of these "dance" terms below. > > -ihtohtia is the correct form. > > Racing while dancing. > > Michael > > =============================================================================== > > Nimitzihtotia "I dance with you,"literally "I dance you" > Ninihtohtia "I dance" literally "I dance myself" > > (actually these forms are nimitzihto:tia: and ninihto:htia:...but for > now we'll leave > the long vowel markings to those, including myself :-), who are > concerned with such > things.) > > Netotiliztli is the correct form for the deverbal noun meaning "dancing," > > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Sun Nov 22 01:59:35 2009 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 20:59:35 -0500 Subject: dancing In-Reply-To: <20091120210829.bpxzdblz8o48wwk8@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: Quoting Michael McCafferty : >> DANCE >> I have found IHTOTILIZTLI, MIHTOHTLI and NETOTILIZTLI. What are the >> sources for the last two? why starting with M? is that the reflexive >> version? and why does the last one start with NE? Which one is >> grammatically correct? > > Netotiliztli is the correct form for the deverbal noun meaning > "dancing," i.e., "the act of dancing". (-)ne- is an "impersonal" > reflexive pronoun used when forming "impersonal" forms such as > -liztli "nounings" and non-active impersonal forms such as necaco > 'people hear themselves', nezahualo 'there is fasting" (i.e., people > are fasting themselves), onequetzaloc 'people stood up'. I was troubled by the first line of my response all day today, or at least occasionally. The initial i- of ihtohtia shouldn't assimilate. So, when I got home tonight I checked Molina and found, indeed, 'neihtohtiliztli'. Sorry for the "interference". Michael > > I don't know about "IHTOTILIZTLI". It sounds strange and > ungrammatical. Seems to be missing the front end. > > However, "MIHTOHTLI" sounds o.k. for a noun meaning 'a dance' or 'the > dance' premised on the personal reflexive pronoun (-)mo-. > > >> >> DANCER >> I found MIHTOTIANI, MIHTOTIHQUI and MOHTOTIHQUI. Why not something >> without the M? again because of its reflexive nature? Why not >> IHTOTIANI? > > All of these sound fine, and you have answered your own question, I > would say. > > Best, > > Michael > > > > > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From schwallr at potsdam.edu Mon Nov 23 16:26:58 2009 From: schwallr at potsdam.edu (John F. Schwaller) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 11:26:58 -0500 Subject: Huitznahuic Message-ID: Recently I received a query from Catalunya regarding the name Huitznahuic, which was the name locals had given to the Pyramid of the Sun at Teotihuacan. >> > >> First Name: Anabel >> > >> Last Name: Villalonga Gordaliza >> > >> Email: annabel.villalonga at uab.cat >> > >> Culture: Teotihuacan >> > >> Abstract: I would like to know about the meaning of \"Huitznahuic\" >> > >> because I found that in s.XIX some people from San Juan Teotihuacan >> > >> called the Sun Pyramid with this name. I\'m doing my thesis and Dr. >> > >> Alfonso Lacadena from Madrid suggested me to contact with you. >> -- ***************************** John F. Schwaller President SUNY - Potsdam 44 Pierrepont Ave. Potsdam, NY 13676 Tel. 315-267-2100 FAX 315-267-2496 _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From martintzin at live.com Tue Nov 24 17:22:38 2009 From: martintzin at live.com (Martin Tzompantzin) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 11:22:38 -0600 Subject: poetry request Message-ID: Hi Could anyone help me with the nahuatl version of the following poem: "Amo el canto del cenzontle, pájaro de cuatrocientas voces. Amo el color del jade y el enervante perfume de las flores; pero amo más a mi hermano, el hombre" I find it very inspiring and would like to read it in its original for but I haven´t been able to find it in the net. Thanks, I really appreciate your help. Martintzin _________________________________________________________________ Todo lo que te gusta de Internet en un mismo lugar www.messengernews.com.mx -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Tue Nov 24 22:59:39 2009 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:59:39 -0500 Subject: Huitznahuic In-Reply-To: <4B0AB7D2.4020409@potsdam.edu> Message-ID: Quoting "John F. Schwaller" : > Recently I received a query from Catalunya regarding the name > Huitznahuic, which was the name locals had given to the Pyramid of the > Sun at Teotihuacan. It *looks like* 'thorn-four-place', from huitz-na:hui-c ...although *huitzna:uhco" sounds better to me. Anybody have an idea? Michael > >>> > >> First Name: Anabel >>> > >> Last Name: Villalonga Gordaliza >>> > >> Email: annabel.villalonga at uab.cat >>> > >> Culture: Teotihuacan >>> > >> Abstract: I would like to know about the meaning of \"Huitznahuic\" >>> > >> because I found that in s.XIX some people from San Juan Teotihuacan >>> > >> called the Sun Pyramid with this name. I\'m doing my thesis and Dr. >>> > >> Alfonso Lacadena from Madrid suggested me to contact with you. >>> > > -- > ***************************** > John F. Schwaller > President > SUNY - Potsdam > 44 Pierrepont Ave. > Potsdam, NY 13676 > Tel. 315-267-2100 > FAX 315-267-2496 > > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From schwallr at potsdam.edu Wed Nov 25 00:56:21 2009 From: schwallr at potsdam.edu (John F. Schwaller) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:56:21 -0500 Subject: Huitznahuic In-Reply-To: <20091124175939.04jnxwfjs44wc08s@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: My original feeling was that it was Huitznahuac [as in the centzon huitznahuac] which had gotten garbled in the last few decades, but Villalonga assured me that huitznahuic was the correct form. > Quoting "John F. Schwaller" : > >> Recently I received a query from Catalunya regarding the name >> Huitznahuic, which was the name locals had given to the Pyramid of the >> Sun at Teotihuacan. > > > It *looks like* 'thorn-four-place', from huitz-na:hui-c > > ...although *huitzna:uhco" sounds better to me. > > Anybody have an idea? > > Michael > > >> >>>> > >> First Name: Anabel >>>> > >> Last Name: Villalonga Gordaliza >>>> > >> Email: annabel.villalonga at uab.cat >>>> > >> Culture: Teotihuacan >>>> > >> Abstract: I would like to know about the meaning of >>>> \"Huitznahuic\" >>>> > >> because I found that in s.XIX some people from San Juan >>>> Teotihuacan >>>> > >> called the Sun Pyramid with this name. I\'m doing my thesis and >>>> Dr. >>>> > >> Alfonso Lacadena from Madrid suggested me to contact with you. >>>> >> >> -- >> ***************************** >> John F. Schwaller >> President >> SUNY - Potsdam >> 44 Pierrepont Ave. >> Potsdam, NY 13676 >> Tel. 315-267-2100 >> FAX 315-267-2496 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Nahuatl mailing list >> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org >> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl >> > > > > -- John F. Schwaller President, SUNY Potsdam 44 Pierrepont Ave. Potsdam, NY 13676 schwallr at potsdam.edu _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Wed Nov 25 01:04:27 2009 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 20:04:27 -0500 Subject: Huitznahuic In-Reply-To: <1caa227c274cdf9bfbbf2a94622a4053.squirrel@bearmail.potsdam.edu> Message-ID: Quoting "John F. Schwaller" : > My original feeling was that it was Huitznahuac [as in the centzon > huitznahuac] which had gotten garbled in the last few decades, but > Villalonga assured me that huitznahuic was the correct form. Yes. Huitznahuac occurred to me, too. And Huitznahuac is only *one* little vowel different from Huitznahuic. Suspicious. > > > > >> Quoting "John F. Schwaller" : >> >>> Recently I received a query from Catalunya regarding the name >>> Huitznahuic, which was the name locals had given to the Pyramid of the >>> Sun at Teotihuacan. >> >> >> It *looks like* 'thorn-four-place', from huitz-na:hui-c >> >> ...although *huitzna:uhco" sounds better to me. >> >> Anybody have an idea? >> >> Michael >> >> >>> >>>>> > >> First Name: Anabel >>>>> > >> Last Name: Villalonga Gordaliza >>>>> > >> Email: annabel.villalonga at uab.cat >>>>> > >> Culture: Teotihuacan >>>>> > >> Abstract: I would like to know about the meaning of >>>>> \"Huitznahuic\" >>>>> > >> because I found that in s.XIX some people from San Juan >>>>> Teotihuacan >>>>> > >> called the Sun Pyramid with this name. I\'m doing my thesis and >>>>> Dr. >>>>> > >> Alfonso Lacadena from Madrid suggested me to contact with you. >>>>> >>> >>> -- >>> ***************************** >>> John F. Schwaller >>> President >>> SUNY - Potsdam >>> 44 Pierrepont Ave. >>> Potsdam, NY 13676 >>> Tel. 315-267-2100 >>> FAX 315-267-2496 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Nahuatl mailing list >>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org >>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl >>> >> >> >> >> > > > -- > John F. Schwaller > President, > SUNY Potsdam > 44 Pierrepont Ave. > Potsdam, NY 13676 > schwallr at potsdam.edu > > > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From budelberger.richard at wanadoo.fr Wed Nov 25 01:25:00 2009 From: budelberger.richard at wanadoo.fr (Budelberger, Richard) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 02:25:00 +0100 Subject: Huitznahuic Message-ID: 5 frimaire an CCXVIII (le 25 novembre 2009 d. c.-d. c. g.), 02 h 16 : 19,1 °C... ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael McCafferty To: John F. Schwaller Cc: Nahuat-L Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 11:59 PM Subject: Re: [Nahuat-l] Huitznahuic > Quoting John F. Schwaller: > > > Recently I received a query from Catalunya regarding the name > > Huitznahuic, which was the name locals had given to the Pyramid of the > > Sun at Teotihuacan. > > It *looks like* 'thorn-four-place', from huitz-na:hui-c huitz-tli + na:hui > huitzna:hui + -c > huitzna:huic ? > ...although *huitzna:uhco" sounds better to me. > > Anybody have an idea? Non. Si, peut-être : la señora Villalonga Gordaliza ne connaîtrait-elle pas le nom donné -- par symétrie ? -- par les « locals » à la pyramide de la Lune, permettant de comprendre la construction -- huitzna:hui-c ? -- et le sens à donner le cas échéant à huitztli ?.. > Michael > > > >>> > >> First Name: Anabel > >>> > >> Last Name: Villalonga Gordaliza > >>> > >> Culture: Teotihuacan > >>> > >> Abstract: I would like to know about the meaning of \"Huitznahuic\" > >>> > >> because I found that in s.XIX some people from San Juan Teotihuacan > >>> > >> called the Sun Pyramid with this name. I\'m doing my thesis and Dr. > >>> > >> Alfonso Lacadena from Madrid suggested me to contact with you. _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From budelberger.richard at wanadoo.fr Wed Nov 25 02:31:00 2009 From: budelberger.richard at wanadoo.fr (Budelberger, Richard) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 03:31:00 +0100 Subject: poetry request Message-ID: 5 frimaire an CCXVIII (le 25 novembre 2009 d. c.-d. c. g.), 03 h 27 : 19,1 °C... ----- Original Message ----- From: Martin Tzompantzin To: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org Cc: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 6:22 PM Subject: [Nahuat-l] poetry request > Hi > > Could anyone help me with the nahuatl version of the following poem: > "Amo el canto del cenzontle, > pájaro de cuatrocientas voces. > Amo el color del jade > y el enervante perfume de las flores; > pero amo más a mi hermano, el hombre" > > I find it very inspiring and would like to read it in its original for > but I haven´t been able to find it in the net. Thanks, I really appreciate your help. > Martintzin MI HERMANO EL HOMBRE Nehhuatl nictlazohtla in centzontototl icuicauh nehhuatl nictlazohtla chalchihuitl itlapaliz ihuan in ahuiyacmeh xochimeh zan oc cencah, noicniuhtzin in tlacatl, nehhuatl nictlazohtla Amo el canto del cenzontle, Pájaro de cuatrocientas voces Amo el color del jade y el enervante Olor de flores pero amo más a mí Hermano al hombre Nezahualcóyolt ex . Budelberger, Richard. _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From lahunik.62 at skynet.be Tue Nov 24 23:04:05 2009 From: lahunik.62 at skynet.be (lahunik.62 at skynet.be) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 00:04:05 +0100 Subject: Huitznahuac Message-ID: Huitznahuac Is a cultus place orientated in the South. One could find it in Tezcoco, Otumba, Azcapotzalco, etc. In Tenochtitlan the place is well been orientated in the South, in the quarters which the Conquistadores called San Pablo, and is still known under this name. In general it means: the South. It was also a place near the thorns, always situated in front of the altars, where the ritual sacrifices has taken place. As the altars were always orientated to the South, the word was used in a general way to locate the South part of the earth or the sky. Lahun Ik 62 Baert Georges Flanders Fields -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From budelberger.richard at wanadoo.fr Wed Nov 25 03:46:00 2009 From: budelberger.richard at wanadoo.fr (Budelberger, Richard) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 04:46:00 +0100 Subject: poetry request Message-ID: 5 frimaire an CCXVIII (le 25 novembre 2009 d. c.-d. c. g.), 04 h 34 : 19,1 °C... ----- Original Message ----- From: Elaine Anderson To: Budelberger, Richard Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 3:54 AM Subject: Re: [Nahuat-l] poetry request > What primary source document is this from? Je ne sais pas. « en los billetes mexicanos de 100 pesos » ?. (¹) Nèhua:tl nictlazòtla in centzonto:to:tl i:cui:cauh nèhua:tl nictlazòtla cha:lchihuitl i:tlapaliz i:hua:n in a:huiyacmê xo:chimê zan oc cencâ, noicni:uhtzin in tla:catl nèhua:tl nictlazòtla. Budelberger, Richard (pro-Unicode). 1. Dra. Susana Arroyo-Furphy, . _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From a.appleyard at btinternet.com Wed Nov 25 07:05:01 2009 From: a.appleyard at btinternet.com (ANTHONY APPLEYARD) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 07:05:01 +0000 Subject: poetry request In-Reply-To: <00d901ca6d81$d3d76d40$3b7d3051@q8u7w0> Message-ID: What is the meter pattern of classical Nahuatl poetry? Is it syllable-length-based like classical Latin poetry, or what? Citlalyani. --- On Wed, 25/11/09, Budelberger, Richard wrote: From: Budelberger, Richard 5 frimaire an CCXVIII (le 25 novembre 2009 d. c.-d. c. g.), 04 h 34 : 19,1 °C...     Je ne sais pas. « en los billetes mexicanos de 100 pesos » ?. (¹)         Nèhua:tl nictlazòtla         in centzonto:to:tl i:cui:cauh         nèhua:tl nictlazòtla         cha:lchihuitl i:tlapaliz         i:hua:n in a:huiyacmê xo:chimê         zan oc cencâ,         noicni:uhtzin in tla:catl         nèhua:tl nictlazòtla. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From karttu at nantucket.net Wed Nov 25 07:47:48 2009 From: karttu at nantucket.net (Frances Karttunen) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 02:47:48 -0500 Subject: Nahuatl poetry Message-ID: What is the meter pattern of classical Nahuatl poetry? Is it syllable- length-based like classical Latin poetry, or what? Citlalyani. One looks in vain for either stress-based or syllable-timed meter in the large body of Nahuatl poetry/songs. If we knew how they fit together with the music, it would be a great help, but in the manuscripts we have the words but not the music. Many of them are preceded by drumbeat patterns transcribed with the syllables ti, to, qui, and co. For example, several songs are accompanied by the drumbeat coto coto coti ticoti ticoti. For others the beat is toco tico tocoti tocoti tocoti tocoti.. A longer one is tiqui tiqui tocoto tiqui tiqui tocoto tiqui tiquiti tiqui tiqui tiquiti. Sometimes one drumbeat pattern is given and then a second one for “when it turns” or “until it ends.” In Nahuatl high style, whether prose or verse, elements are paired. Such a pair of words or phrases is often described in English as a couplet, and in Nahuatl formal rhetoric, couplets are frequently embedded within couplets. Whatever is worth saying is worth saying twice. And whatever is worth saying twice is worth saying four or eight times. This is reflected in the structure of the songs. The majority of them consist of four stanzas, each stanza consisting of a pair of verses. We know that the verse pairs go together, because each of the two elements ends with an identical coda. The coda is made up of syllables that can be compared to tralala in English songs. The syllables have no meaning of their own but serve to tell the hearer that one verse is over and another is about to begin. A typical coda in Nahuatl songs is ohuaya ohuaya, but there are longer ones such as ayie a oo ohuaya and ohui ohui ilili y yao ayyahue o amaha ilili ahua y yaohuia. An eight-verse Nahuatl song begins with a stanza consisting of a pair of verses, each ending in the same coda. Then comes another stanza, often with a different shared coda. Then comes another stanza, followed by the fourth. Rather than progressing from a beginning to a middle to an end, the organization is circular. In some repetitions, we find different order of the stanzas, but within the stanzas, the verse pairs are inseparable. In a few cases where one of the verses has been forgotten, a dummy verse has been substituted ending with the same coda as its partner within the stanza. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From budelberger.richard at wanadoo.fr Wed Nov 25 13:06:00 2009 From: budelberger.richard at wanadoo.fr (Budelberger, Richard) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 14:06:00 +0100 Subject: poetry request Message-ID: 5 frimaire an CCXVIII (le 25 novembre 2009 d. c.-d. c. g.), 13 h 54 : 18,6 °C... ----- Original Message ----- From: Elaine Anderson To: Budelberger, Richard Mais pourquoi Mme Anderson m'écrit-elle en privé ? Ses commentaires intéressent toute la liste NAHUAT-L ! Utiliser le bouton « Répondre à tous »... Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 1:31 PM Subject: Re: [Nahuat-l] poetry request > Je ne sais pas tampoco - por su puesto, no salio en > las monedas de cinco pesos - > "attribution" to Nezahualcoyotl at the website may indicate > that it was lifted from Garibay's rather free interpretations > of some of the Cantares - but I do not have Garibay's works to refer to. > A quick check through Bierhorst's concordance to the Cantares > for centzontli/centzontototl, etc. yielded a reference to folio 1:16 > in centzontlatoltozoh quinnananquilia - not even close. > Sounds suspiciously westernized - if not a very literal translation > of one of Garibay's interpretations back into Nahuatl! - a missionary > Nahuatl source tal vez? Nèhua:tl nictlazòtla in centzonto:to:tl i:cui:cauh nèhua:tl nictlazòtla cha:lchihuitl i:tlapaliz i:hua:n in a:huiyacmê xo:chimê zan oc cencâ, noicni:uhtzin in tla:catl nèhua:tl nictlazòtla. J'ai des doutes sur l'authenticité de ce poème très répandu sur le Web. Consultons le Wimmer, toujours excellent : ° i:tlapaliz : tlapaliztli, « Teinture, action de teindre un objet. » ° a:huiyacmê xo:chimê : adjectif au pluriel ; « xo:chimê » : .XOCHITL: xôchitl, en Sah11,213 on trouve le plur. xôchimeh. Garibay Llave 377 signale un pluriel dialectal 'xôchimeh' *~ pluriel, R.Joe Campbell and Frances Karttunen I 37 proposent 'xôchimeh'. Si « xo:chimê » était un pluriel usuel figurant chez le classique Nezahualcoyolt, trouverait-on les commentaires ci-dessus ? Budelberger, Richard. _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From idiez at me.com Wed Nov 25 04:54:35 2009 From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan, Ph.D.) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 22:54:35 -0600 Subject: tlapani, tlapana, tlatlapaca, tlatlapatza Message-ID: Piyali listeros, Ce tlahtlaniliztli. I have a question about sets of words like: tlapa:ni, "to split"; tlapa:na, "to split s.t."; tlatlapaca, "to split into many pieces", tlatlapatza, "to split s.t. into many pieces". I understand that tlapa:na is a causative derivation of tlapa:ni. And the grammars say that tlatlapaca is a reduplicated form of tlapa:ni, and that tlatlapatza is a reduplicated form of tlapa:na. What I want to know is if tlatlapatza could also be considered a causative derivation of tlatlapaca. After all, we do have hua:qui, "to dry" and its causative derivation hua:tza, "to dry s.t."; popo:ca, "to smoke" / popo:tza, "to smoke s.t."; ti:tica, "to throb (a wound) / ti:titza, "to strain while making an effort", none of which have underlying thematic verbs forms in -ni or -hui. And I think all verbs ending in - tza are transitive (pi:tza, po:tza). John John Sullivan, Ph.D. Professor of Nahua language and culture Universidad Autónoma de Zacatecas Zacatecas Institute of Teaching and Research in Ethnology Tacuba 152, int. 43 Centro Histórico Zacatecas, Zac. 98000 Mexico Work: +52 (492) 925-3415 Fax: +1 (858) 724-3030 (U.S.A.) Home: +52 (492) 768-6048 Mobile: +52 1 (492) 103-0195 idiez at me.com www.macehualli.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From lovegren at buffalo.edu Wed Nov 25 04:59:31 2009 From: lovegren at buffalo.edu (Jesse Lovegren) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 23:59:31 -0500 Subject: poetry request In-Reply-To: <00d901ca6d81$d3d76d40$3b7d3051@q8u7w0> Message-ID: "Most of the surviving Nahuatl songs can be found in two major codices, Romances de los señores de la Nueva España and Cantares mexicanos. ... Two more of Hungry Coyote's songs are found in Spanish translation in Historia chichimeca, a history written in Spanish by Alva Ixtlilxochitl, another descendant of Hungry Coyote and surely an associate of Pomar. ..." http://www.famsi.org/research/curl/bibliography1.html On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 10:46 PM, Budelberger, Richard < budelberger.richard at wanadoo.fr> wrote: > 5 frimaire an CCXVIII (le 25 novembre 2009 d. c.-d. c. g.), 04 h 34 : 19,1 > °C... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Elaine Anderson > To: Budelberger, Richard > Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 3:54 AM > Subject: Re: [Nahuat-l] poetry request > > > What primary source document is this from? > > Je ne sais pas. « en los billetes mexicanos de 100 pesos » ?. (¹) > > Nèhua:tl nictlazòtla > in centzonto:to:tl i:cui:cauh > nèhua:tl nictlazòtla > cha:lchihuitl i:tlapaliz > i:hua:n in a:huiyacmê xo:chimê > zan oc cencâ, > noicni:uhtzin in tla:catl > nèhua:tl nictlazòtla. > > > Budelberger, Richard (pro-Unicode). > > > 1. Dra. Susana Arroyo-Furphy, < > http://www.razonypalabra.org.mx/cyl/2007/mar15.html>. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > > -- Jesse Lovegren Department of Linguistics 645 Baldy Hall office +1 716 645 0136 cell +1 512 584 5468 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From lovegren at buffalo.edu Wed Nov 25 15:39:08 2009 From: lovegren at buffalo.edu (Jesse Lovegren) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 10:39:08 -0500 Subject: poetry request In-Reply-To: <007401ca6dd0$120dcd40$17507952@q8u7w0> Message-ID: En outre c'est un peu curieux la presence du pronom externe "nehuatl", qui ne se trouve que deux fois dans tout le Cantares et une fois à Ballads of the Lords of New Spain chez Bierhorst. * * *si google books ne me trompe pas * On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 8:06 AM, Budelberger, Richard < budelberger.richard at wanadoo.fr> wrote: > 5 frimaire an CCXVIII (le 25 novembre 2009 d. c.-d. c. g.), 13 h 54 : 18,6 > °C... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Elaine Anderson > To: Budelberger, Richard > > Mais pourquoi Mme Anderson m'écrit-elle en privé ? > Ses commentaires intéressent toute la liste NAHUAT-L ! > Utiliser le bouton « Répondre à tous »... > > Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 1:31 PM > Subject: Re: [Nahuat-l] poetry request > > > Je ne sais pas tampoco - por su puesto, no salio en > > las monedas de cinco pesos - > > "attribution" to Nezahualcoyotl at the website may indicate > > that it was lifted from Garibay's rather free interpretations > > of some of the Cantares - but I do not have Garibay's works to refer to. > > A quick check through Bierhorst's concordance to the Cantares > > for centzontli/centzontototl, etc. yielded a reference to folio 1:16 > > in centzontlatoltozoh quinnananquilia - not even close. > > Sounds suspiciously westernized - if not a very literal translation > > of one of Garibay's interpretations back into Nahuatl! - a missionary > > Nahuatl source tal vez? > > Nèhua:tl nictlazòtla > in centzonto:to:tl i:cui:cauh > nèhua:tl nictlazòtla > cha:lchihuitl i:tlapaliz > i:hua:n in a:huiyacmê xo:chimê > zan oc cencâ, > noicni:uhtzin in tla:catl > nèhua:tl nictlazòtla. > > J'ai des doutes sur l'authenticité de ce poème très répandu sur le Web. > Consultons le Wimmer, toujours excellent : > > ° i:tlapaliz : tlapaliztli, « Teinture, action de teindre un objet. » > ° a:huiyacmê xo:chimê : adjectif au pluriel ; « xo:chimê » : > > .XOCHITL: > xôchitl, en Sah11,213 on trouve le plur. xôchimeh. > Garibay Llave 377 signale un pluriel dialectal 'xôchimeh' > *~ pluriel, R.Joe Campbell and Frances Karttunen I 37 proposent > 'xôchimeh'. > > Si « xo:chimê » était un pluriel usuel figurant chez le classique > Nezahualcoyolt, > trouverait-on les commentaires ci-dessus ? > > > Budelberger, Richard. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > > -- Jesse Lovegren Department of Linguistics 645 Baldy Hall office +1 716 645 0136 cell +1 512 584 5468 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From yekeus at yahoo.com.mx Wed Nov 25 16:37:09 2009 From: yekeus at yahoo.com.mx (=?utf-8?Q?Javier_Jim=C3=A9nez_Iglesias?=) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 10:37:09 -0600 Subject: poetry request In-Reply-To: Message-ID: ZENZONTLI NIH OIHKAH NETXPAKTIA ZEH TXONTLI OIHKAMEH TOTOTL TXALTXIOHTIK IXNEHKIH KEHN NI AHOIHAK IN XOTXIMEH OHAN NOKNIOH NIK TLAZOHTLA ME ENCANTA EL CANTO DEL ZENZONTLE CUATROCIENTOS CANTOS DE AVE ME GUSTA EL RESPLANDOR DEL JADE COMO EL AROMA DE LAS FLORES MAS A MI HERMANO LO APRECIO(AMO) De: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org [mailto:nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org] En nombre de Martin Tzompantzin Enviado el: martes, 24 de noviembre de 2009 11:23 a.m. Para: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org CC: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org Asunto: [Nahuat-l] poetry request Hi Could anyone help me with the nahuatl version of the following poem: "Amo el canto del cenzontle, pájaro de cuatrocientas voces. Amo el color del jade y el enervante perfume de las flores; pero amo más a mi hermano, el hombre" I find it very inspiring and would like to read it in its original for but I haven´t been able to find it in the net. Thanks, I really appreciate your help. Martintzin _____ Descúbrelo: NUEVO Windows 7. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From rnava_nava at hotmail.com Wed Nov 25 17:58:56 2009 From: rnava_nava at hotmail.com (Refugio Nava Nava) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 17:58:56 +0000 Subject: Thanks for the help In-Reply-To: <008001ca6d77$5b7042a0$3b7d3051@q8u7w0> Message-ID: Hi, everybody I´d like to thank all of you who have read my request and spend some time answering it. The first time I saw this poem, which is indeed atributed to Netzahualcoyotl, was in a book we, in Mexico, use in elementary school. It is a book for the subject of Spanish. Unfortunatelly, the poem is only in Spanish and have never seen the nahuatl version. Thanks a lot > From: budelberger.richard at wanadoo.fr > To: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 03:31:00 +0100 > Subject: Re: [Nahuat-l] poetry request > > 5 frimaire an CCXVIII (le 25 novembre 2009 d. c.-d. c. g.), 03 h 27 : 19,1 °C... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Martin Tzompantzin > To: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org > Cc: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 6:22 PM > Subject: [Nahuat-l] poetry request > > > Hi > > > > Could anyone help me with the nahuatl version of the following poem: > > "Amo el canto del cenzontle, > > pájaro de cuatrocientas voces. > > Amo el color del jade > > y el enervante perfume de las flores; > > pero amo más a mi hermano, el hombre" > > > > I find it very inspiring and would like to read it in its original for > > but I haven´t been able to find it in the net. Thanks, I really appreciate your help. > > Martintzin > > MI HERMANO EL HOMBRE > > Nehhuatl nictlazohtla > in centzontototl > icuicauh nehhuatl nictlazohtla > chalchihuitl itlapaliz > ihuan in ahuiyacmeh xochimeh > zan oc cencah, > noicniuhtzin in tlacatl, > nehhuatl nictlazohtla > > Amo el canto del cenzontle, > Pájaro de cuatrocientas voces > Amo el color del jade y el enervante > Olor de flores pero amo más a mí > Hermano al hombre > > Nezahualcóyolt > > ex . > > > Budelberger, Richard. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live Hotmail: Your friends can get your Facebook updates, right from Hotmail®. http://www.microsoft.com/middleeast/windows/windowslive/see-it-in-action/social-network-basics.aspx?ocid=PID23461::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-xm:SI_SB_4:092009 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Wed Nov 25 19:00:23 2009 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 14:00:23 -0500 Subject: Thanks for the help In-Reply-To: Message-ID: In addition to the other good questions, especially grammatical, raised already this morning about this song apparently attributed to the Nezahualcoyotl, let me add that the Spanish phrase "Pájaro de cuatrocientas voces" is not in the "original" Nahuatl version. It seems to be a definition for "centzontle," perhaps a parenthetical addition. Michael Quoting Refugio Nava Nava : > > Hi, everybody > > > > I´d like to thank all of you who have read my request and spend some > time answering it. > > The first time I saw this poem, which is indeed atributed to > Netzahualcoyotl, was in a book we, in Mexico, use in elementary > school. It is a book for the subject of Spanish. Unfortunatelly, the > poem is only in Spanish and have never seen the nahuatl version. > > > > Thanks a lot > > > > > > > >> From: budelberger.richard at wanadoo.fr >> To: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org >> Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 03:31:00 +0100 >> Subject: Re: [Nahuat-l] poetry request >> >> 5 frimaire an CCXVIII (le 25 novembre 2009 d. c.-d. c. g.), 03 h 27 >> : 19,1 °C... >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Martin Tzompantzin >> To: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org >> Cc: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org >> Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 6:22 PM >> Subject: [Nahuat-l] poetry request >> >> > Hi >> > >> > Could anyone help me with the nahuatl version of the following poem: >> > "Amo el canto del cenzontle, >> > pájaro de cuatrocientas voces. >> > Amo el color del jade >> > y el enervante perfume de las flores; >> > pero amo más a mi hermano, el hombre" >> > >> > I find it very inspiring and would like to read it in its original for >> > but I haven´t been able to find it in the net. Thanks, I really >> appreciate your help. >> > Martintzin >> >> MI HERMANO EL HOMBRE >> >> Nehhuatl nictlazohtla >> in centzontototl >> icuicauh nehhuatl nictlazohtla >> chalchihuitl itlapaliz >> ihuan in ahuiyacmeh xochimeh >> zan oc cencah, >> noicniuhtzin in tlacatl, >> nehhuatl nictlazohtla >> >> Amo el canto del cenzontle, >> Pájaro de cuatrocientas voces >> Amo el color del jade y el enervante >> Olor de flores pero amo más a mí >> Hermano al hombre >> >> Nezahualcóyolt >> >> ex . >> >> >> Budelberger, Richard. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Nahuatl mailing list >> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org >> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > > _________________________________________________________________ > Windows Live Hotmail: Your friends can get your Facebook updates, > right from Hotmail®. > http://www.microsoft.com/middleeast/windows/windowslive/see-it-in-action/social-network-basics.aspx?ocid=PID23461::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-xm:SI_SB_4:092009 _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Wed Nov 25 19:08:19 2009 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 14:08:19 -0500 Subject: tlapani, tlapana, tlatlapaca, tlatlapatza In-Reply-To: <2670A87B-738F-4B1C-8351-D26D7403AA37@me.com> Message-ID: Quoting "John Sullivan, Ph.D." : > Piyali listeros, > Ce tlahtlaniliztli. I have a question about sets of words like: > tlapa:ni, "to split"; tlapa:na, "to split s.t."; tlatlapaca, "to > split into many pieces", tlatlapatza, "to split s.t. into many > pieces". I understand that tlapa:na is a causative derivation of > tlapa:ni. And the grammars say that tlatlapaca is a reduplicated > form of tlapa:ni, and that tlatlapatza is a reduplicated form of > tlapa:na. What I want to know is if tlatlapatza could also be > considered a causative derivation of tlatlapaca. Why? :-) After all, we do > have hua:qui, "to dry" and its causative derivation hua:tza, "to dry > s.t."; popo:ca, "to smoke" / popo:tza, "to smoke s.t."; ti:tica, "to > throb (a wound) / ti:titza, "to strain while making an effort", none > of which have underlying thematic verbs forms in -ni or -hui. One thing about these particular forms that you note, John, is that they all retain the long vowel when taking the -tza form, which is not the case for the productive verbs noted further above. Michael And I > think all verbs ending in - tza are transitive (pi:tza, po:tza). > John > > John Sullivan, Ph.D. > Professor of Nahua language and culture > Universidad Autónoma de Zacatecas > Zacatecas Institute of Teaching and Research in Ethnology > Tacuba 152, int. 43 > Centro Histórico > Zacatecas, Zac. 98000 > Mexico > Work: +52 (492) 925-3415 > Fax: +1 (858) 724-3030 (U.S.A.) > Home: +52 (492) 768-6048 > Mobile: +52 1 (492) 103-0195 > idiez at me.com > www.macehualli.org > > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Wed Nov 25 19:57:25 2009 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 14:57:25 -0500 Subject: poetry request In-Reply-To: <4fb311a10911250739v7057fdfcw3f62ce657b130156@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Elaine Anderson >> To: Budelberger, Richar >> >> Richard Budelberger wrote concerning his question about the >> authenticity of this poem. Nèhua:tl nictlazòtla > in centzonto:to:tl i:cui:cauh > nèhua:tl nictlazòtla > cha:lchihuitl i:tlapaliz > i:hua:n in a:huiyacmê xo:chimê > zan oc cencâ, > noicni:uhtzin in tla:catl > nèhua:tl nictlazòtla. >> >> J'ai des doutes sur l'authenticité de ce poème très répandu sur le Web. >> Consultons le Wimmer, toujours excellent : >> >> ° i:tlapaliz : tlapaliztli, « Teinture, action de teindre un objet. » I agree that this term seems unexpected for classical Nahuatl in this context. In the Florentine, the inalienably possessed noun tlapal- not used when referring to the color of stones. There the term used is "itlachializ" meaning 'its appearance' chalchihuitl itlachializ would seem to be closer to what Nezahualcoyotl said, if he said any of this at all. >> ° a:huiyacmê xo:chimê : adjectif au pluriel ; « xo:chimê » : Yes, this phrase too seems quite strange, grammatically speaking. One would expect something like "ahhuiacayotl ixoch" or "ahhuializtli ixoch" 'the flowers' pleasant odor'. Michael >> >> .XOCHITL: >> xôchitl, en Sah11,213 on trouve le plur. xôchimeh. >> Garibay Llave 377 signale un pluriel dialectal 'xôchimeh' >> *~ pluriel, R.Joe Campbell and Frances Karttunen I 37 proposent >> 'xôchimeh'. >> >> Si « xo:chimê » était un pluriel usuel figurant chez le classique >> Nezahualcoyolt, >> trouverait-on les commentaires ci-dessus ? >> >> >> Budelberger, Richard. >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Nahuatl mailing list >> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org >> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl >> >> > > > -- > Jesse Lovegren > Department of Linguistics > 645 Baldy Hall > office +1 716 645 0136 > cell +1 512 584 5468 > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From budelberger.richard at wanadoo.fr Wed Nov 25 21:22:00 2009 From: budelberger.richard at wanadoo.fr (Budelberger, Richard) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 22:22:00 +0100 Subject: poetry request Message-ID: 5 frimaire an CCXVIII (le 25 novembre 2009 d. c.-d. c. g.), 22 h 09 : 20,7 °C... ----- Original Message ----- From: Jesse Lovegren To: Budelberger, Richard Cc: Nahuat-L Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 4:39 PM Subject: Re: [Nahuat-l] poetry request > En outre c'est un peu curieux la presence du pronom > externe "nehuatl", qui ne se trouve que deux fois dans > tout le Cantares et une fois à Ballads of the Lords of > New Spain chez Bierhorst. > si google books ne me trompe pas Oui, bien sûr, tout ce texte est occidental, et « sent » le thème mot à mot (d'une langue à pronoms personnels obligatoires) ; la preuve ? à la première lecture, j'en comprends et la structure, et le sens ; or, chacun sait que le vrai nahuatl est incompréhensible, sauf à quelques happy fews, dont je ne suis pas. Nèhua:tl nictlazòtla in centzonto:to:tl i:cui:cauh nèhua:tl nictlazòtla cha:lchihuitl i:tlapaliz i:hua:n in a:huiyacmê xo:chimê zan oc cencâ, noicni:uhtzin in tla:catl nèhua:tl nictlazòtla. On peut ajouter « noicni:uhtzin », correct, mais dans lequel le « i » saute souvent : « no(i)cni:uhtzin »... (Voir la traduction -- personnelle ? -- de Javier Jiménez Iglesias : « NOKNIOH ».) Budelberger, Richard. _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Wed Nov 25 22:24:40 2009 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 17:24:40 -0500 Subject: poetry request In-Reply-To: <006a01ca6e15$5c2b7180$a4d27952@q8u7w0> Message-ID: Quoting "Budelberger, Richard" : > 5 frimaire an CCXVIII (le 25 novembre 2009 d. c.-d. c. g.), 22 h 09 : > 20,7 °C... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jesse Lovegren > To: Budelberger, Richard > Cc: Nahuat-L > Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 4:39 PM > Subject: Re: [Nahuat-l] poetry request > >> En outre c'est un peu curieux la presence du pronom >> externe "nehuatl", qui ne se trouve que deux fois dans >> tout le Cantares et une fois à Ballads of the Lords of >> New Spain chez Bierhorst. >> si google books ne me trompe pas > > Oui, bien sûr, tout ce texte est occidental, et « sent » > le thème mot à mot (d'une langue à pronoms personnels > obligatoires) ; la preuve ? à la première lecture, j'en comprends > et la structure, et le sens ; or, chacun sait que le vrai nahuatl > est incompréhensible, sauf à quelques happy fews, dont > je ne suis pas. > > Nèhua:tl nictlazòtla > in centzonto:to:tl i:cui:cauh > nèhua:tl nictlazòtla > cha:lchihuitl i:tlapaliz > i:hua:n in a:huiyacmê xo:chimê > zan oc cencâ, > noicni:uhtzin in tla:catl > nèhua:tl nictlazòtla. > > On peut ajouter « noicni:uhtzin », correct, mais dans > lequel le « i » saute souvent : « no(i)cni:uhtzin »... (Voir > la traduction -- personnelle ? -- de Javier Jiménez Iglesias : > « NOKNIOH ».) > > > Budelberger, Richard. > > > Well, this is not bad beginning Nahuatl. But, yes, not only is nocniuhtzin miswritten (and mistranslated), but also the use of "nehhuatl," a weird choice for a soul of the depth that Nezahualcoyotl was ostensibly gifted with. Michael _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Thu Nov 26 14:31:50 2009 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2009 09:31:50 -0500 Subject: poetry request In-Reply-To: <20091125145725.57dsb0fdsk0048k4@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: Quoting Michael McCafferty : > >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Elaine Anderson >>> To: Budelberger, Richar >>> >>> Richard Budelberger wrote concerning his question about the >>> authenticity of this poem. > > Nèhua:tl nictlazòtla >> in centzonto:to:tl i:cui:cauh >> nèhua:tl nictlazòtla >> cha:lchihuitl i:tlapaliz >> i:hua:n in a:huiyacmê xo:chimê >> zan oc cencâ, >> noicni:uhtzin in tla:catl >> nèhua:tl nictlazòtla. > > > > >>> >>> J'ai des doutes sur l'authenticité de ce poème très répandu sur le Web. >>> Consultons le Wimmer, toujours excellent : >>> >>> ° i:tlapaliz : tlapaliztli, « Teinture, action de teindre un objet. » > > I agree that this term seems unexpected for classical Nahuatl in this > context. In the Florentine, the inalienably possessed noun tlapal- > not used when referring to the color of stones. There the term used > is "itlachializ" meaning 'its appearance' > > chalchihuitl itlachializ > > would seem to be closer to what Nezahualcoyotl said, if he said any > of this at all. > > >>> ° a:huiyacmê xo:chimê : adjectif au pluriel ; « xo:chimê » : > > Yes, this phrase too seems quite strange, grammatically speaking. One > would expect something like "ahhuiacayotl ixoch" or "ahhuializtli > ixoch" 'the flowers' pleasant odor'. > Must learn to proofread messages before sending them. That should have been iahhuializ in xochitl. Sorry, folks. Michael > Michael > > > > >>> >>> .XOCHITL: >>> xôchitl, en Sah11,213 on trouve le plur. xôchimeh. >>> Garibay Llave 377 signale un pluriel dialectal 'xôchimeh' >>> *~ pluriel, R.Joe Campbell and Frances Karttunen I 37 proposent >>> 'xôchimeh'. >>> >>> Si « xo:chimê » était un pluriel usuel figurant chez le classique >>> Nezahualcoyolt, >>> trouverait-on les commentaires ci-dessus ? >>> >>> >>> Budelberger, Richard. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Nahuatl mailing list >>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org >>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Jesse Lovegren >> Department of Linguistics >> 645 Baldy Hall >> office +1 716 645 0136 >> cell +1 512 584 5468 >> > > > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From idiez at me.com Wed Nov 25 21:34:38 2009 From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan, Ph.D.) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 15:34:38 -0600 Subject: tlapani, tlapana, tlatlapaca, tlatlapatza In-Reply-To: <20091125140819.10isfy96as0cgow8@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: Because the meaning of tlatlapatza can be understood in two ways: 1. tlapana>tlatlapatza, "to split s.t. many times. 2. tlatlapaca> tlatlapatza, " to cause s.t. to be split into many pieces" John On Nov 25, 2009, at 1:08 PM, Michael McCafferty wrote: > Quoting "John Sullivan, Ph.D." : > >> Piyali listeros, >> Ce tlahtlaniliztli. I have a question about sets of words like: >> tlapa:ni, "to split"; tlapa:na, "to split s.t."; tlatlapaca, "to >> split into many pieces", tlatlapatza, "to split s.t. into many >> pieces". I understand that tlapa:na is a causative derivation of >> tlapa:ni. And the grammars say that tlatlapaca is a reduplicated >> form of tlapa:ni, and that tlatlapatza is a reduplicated form of >> tlapa:na. > > What I want to know is if tlatlapatza could also be >> considered a causative derivation of tlatlapaca. > > Why? > > :-) > > > After all, we do >> have hua:qui, "to dry" and its causative derivation hua:tza, "to dry >> s.t."; popo:ca, "to smoke" / popo:tza, "to smoke s.t."; ti:tica, "to >> throb (a wound) / ti:titza, "to strain while making an effort", none >> of which have underlying thematic verbs forms in -ni or -hui. > > One thing about these particular forms that you note, John, is that > they all retain the long vowel when taking the -tza form, which is not > the case for the productive verbs noted further above. > > > Michael > > > > And I >> think all verbs ending in - tza are transitive (pi:tza, po:tza). >> John >> >> John Sullivan, Ph.D. >> Professor of Nahua language and culture >> Universidad Autónoma de Zacatecas >> Zacatecas Institute of Teaching and Research in Ethnology >> Tacuba 152, int. 43 >> Centro Histórico >> Zacatecas, Zac. 98000 >> Mexico >> Work: +52 (492) 925-3415 >> Fax: +1 (858) 724-3030 (U.S.A.) >> Home: +52 (492) 768-6048 >> Mobile: +52 1 (492) 103-0195 >> idiez at me.com >> www.macehualli.org >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From campbel at indiana.edu Sat Nov 28 19:56:58 2009 From: campbel at indiana.edu (Campbell, R. Joe) Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2009 14:56:58 -0500 Subject: Nahuatl Morphology Problems Message-ID: Nocnihuan, I would appreciate suggestions about the morphological composition of the words below. Some of it comes from Molina and glossed in Spanish and some of it comes from the Florentine Codex and has my glosses in English, with heavy leaning on the Dibble and Anderson translation of the text. A comma with a following hyphenated element indicates a prefixed item: ex: cuecuezo , tla- = tlacuecuezo. An element following "=" is a prefix: ex: atenoa =nitla = nitlaatenoa. < ... > contains scraps of morphological hypotheses that I have had over the years that I have been working on the material. In some cases, they are incomplete, but in other cases, I am simply dissatified or dubious about them. Again, I would appreciate any removal of a burr from my saddle or a thorn from my paw. There are only 66 of them here, but I have 770 more of them marked and waiting. |8-) Joe comment: zo:1 = pierce, sew cuecuezo , tla-. she bastes. . b.10 f.3 p.52| cuecuezo =nitla=onitlacuecuezoc. hiluanar lo que se ha de coser. . 71m2-5| cuecuezoni , tla-. one who bastes. . b.10 f.3 p.52| atenoa =nitla. sentarse ala orilla del rio. . 71m1-19| atenoa =nitla=onitlaatenoh. assentarse ala orilla del rio o del mar. . 71m2-2| atia =n. alegrarse muy mucho. <+prob>. 55m-00| comment: another form given in the FC is "atlacuezonan", pointing to the possibility that the last element is "na:ntli". atlacuezona. a kind of plant; white water lily. <+need:plant +prob>. b.11 f.13 p.126| canyepa. adonde (para preguntar). aduerbio. <+prob>. 71m1-1| cecocamati =mo. soberuio y presumptuoso. . 71m2-10| cecocamati =nino. tenerse en mucho, o por mas eminente y singular que los otros, con soberuia e hinchazon. <+prob>. 71m1-20| comment: related to Chalco (challi?)? chalcaayatia , mo-. he puts on a netted cape. . b.3 f.4 p.56| chalcaayauh , in-. their netted cape. . b.3 f.4 p.56| chalcayatl. netted cape. <--a:ya:tl +prob>. b.3 f.4 p.56| chiccanahua =nite. echar por fuerza de casa a alguno. <+prob>. 55m- 6| chiccalolli =tla. echado assi (assi is echar por fuer‡a de casa a alguno); echado fuera de casa por fuerza. <+prob>. 55m-6| chinequiztli. ni¤o que^llora mucho. <+prob>. 71m1-16| chipapatlaca. they constantly fly. . b.11 f.10 p.95| cuacecepoca =ni. espeluzarse. . 55m-9| comment: related to challi? cuachachal. hombre de gran cabeza. . 71m2- 14| cuahuecoc. wild bean. . b.2 f.2 p.65| cuatezpi =nite. messar. . 71m1-15| cuatlacaczotl. desmelenado. <+prob>. 55m-5| cuatlacazotl. desmelenado. <+prob>. 71m1-7| cuauhtzatzapictli. rexa de madera. . 71m2-15| comment: is tzo:tzocolli basically dupl-tzocolli? cuauhtzotzocolli. forked tree. . b.11 f.11 p.108| cuechmicqui. espantadiza cosa. <+prob>. 71m1-11| cuillotic. hombre cence¤o y delgado. <+prob>. 71m2-5| comment: how can malacatl and malacotl be related? ecamalacotl. remolino de viento. . 71m1-18| ezoquilitl. bean plant. . b.11 f.2 p.15| comment: the similarity of huihuixca and huixahui is obvious, but how can they be related in a regular way? huihuixca =ni=onihuihuixcac. temblar. . 71m2-27| comment: huitolli seems to be a morpheme, but how can the 'tla-' be explained? huitolli =tla. arco para tirar flecha o bodoque. . 71m1-2| comment: how is the -ca- explained? ichpochcaconetontli. mozuela de edad mas peque¤a. . 71m1-15| iquehuilotla =nite. ligar con hechizos. <+prob>. 71m1-14| iuhco Încah. assi assi, del que se enoja contra el que haze la cosa mal hecha. . 71m2-3| ixteliuhcatl. mexilla dela cara. <+prob>. 55m-13| iyayoca. his defect. <+prob>. b.10 f.3 p.50| comment: it is *possible* that the 'i' of 'izo' is 'ix', but there is no variation with *'ixzo'. izo , m[o]-. he anoints himself with his blood. . b.2 f.8 p.135| izo =nin. sacrificarse al ydolo, sacando sangre de las orejas o de la lengua, y de los otros miembros. . 71m1-19| machoncotl. bracelete de pluma rica. . 71m2- 9| comment: is the folding of the tortilla related to a possible hand signal given to warn someone? matzoa =ic nitla [[tlamatzoa =icni]]. noticia dar a alguno de lo que le a^de acaecer, auisandole. . 71m1-16| matzoalli =tla. tortillas dobladas, plegadas o souajadas. . 71m2-21| mautztemi =ni=onimautzten. tener panarizo en la v¤a. . 71m2-9| mexhualiztli =ne. higo dolencia del saluonor. . 71m1-13| minacachalli. trident. . b.11 f.3 p.30| nacayauhyo. magra carne. . 71m1-14| comment: is 'nel' the same 'nel' of nelihui? nenelquilitl =tla. ensalada. <--dupl-nel!-quilitl +prob>. 71m1-10| comment: even if the 'nex' is 'nextli', what is the 'te'? nextecuilin. gusano de muladar, o persona desatinada y loca. . 71m2-12| nocxicecepoa =onocxicecepoac. entomecerme el pie. <--icza-l2 dupl- ce:tl-po:hua2 +prob +del.w +z>x +a>i>. 71m2-12| ochuiqui =mo. el que enferma por brindar mucho. . 71m2-10| omiztla. magra cosa, como hombre flaco. <+prob>. 71m1-14| omiztlatic. enflaquecido assi (assi is enflaquecer a otro). <+prob>. 55m-7| picietl. yerua medicinal que embeoda,y es como vele¤o. <--iyetl +prob>. 71m1-13| polocatl. tamo, paja menuda. . 71m2-14| quechtzatic. desceruigado hazia delante; desceruigado. . 55m-5| tacapitzauhya , to-. our waist. . b.10 f.7 p.120a| tecpoyotl. pregonero. k +prob>. 55m-16| tenatic. aguda cosa y muy afilada. . 71m1-1| tepexocoyolli. azedera, yerua agra. . 71m1-3| tlalacatl. escarauajo grande y bermejo. <+prob>. 71m2-21| tlaletzalli. aueja de miel parda. <+prob>. 71m2-21| tlaletzatl. aueja de miel. <+prob>. 71m1-3| tlaxilacalli. barrio. <+prob>. 71m1-3| tocuaihyaya =ni. oler a cabron. . 71m1- 16| xocoyolli. azedera, yerua agra. . 71m1-3| xonexca =ic ni. noticia dar a alguno delo que le a de acaecer auisandole, per metaphoram. <+metaphor +prob>. 55m-14| yacatotona. gorgojo que come el trigo. . 71m1-12| _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From campbel at indiana.edu Sun Nov 29 21:19:26 2009 From: campbel at indiana.edu (Campbell, R. Joe) Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2009 16:19:26 -0500 Subject: tlapani, tlapana, tlatlapaca, tlatlapatza In-Reply-To: <2670A87B-738F-4B1C-8351-D26D7403AA37@me.com> Message-ID: John, I thought your message focused on an interesting area of Nahuatl word formation. Then, after several days of *thinking* that I was giving it the thought that it deserved, I realized that I had missed your point (possibly because I have long assumed that your suggestion that words like "nitlatlatlapatza" are derived from their intransitive reduplicated counterparts was true). I re-consulted one of "the grammars" that you mentioned and found that Andrews (rev. ed.), p. 232, says that the "tz" is the result of changing the 'n', 'ni', or 'hu' of the simple causative verb to 'tz', keeping the causative 'a' intact. Examples: tla-tlapana ---> tla-tlatlapatza tla-chipinia ---> tla-chichipitza tla-chayahua ---> tla-chachayatza Obviously, the several times that I had previously read that paragraph must have involved some distraction because I had *never* seen any reason to question my assumption that the "ca" and "tza" involved in these reduplicated verb forms were unit formatives. Maybe someone in the Nahuat-l group could help us understand why Andrews' point of view has more merit than the belief that these verb triads are related as follows: intrans. unredupl. ---> intrans. redupl. ---> causative redupl. (with -ca) (with -tza) /morpheme status/ /morpheme status/ In the meantime, I'm including below a list of some co-occurrences of "tza" and verb stems. Iztayohmeh, Joe p.s. While I was glad that you mentioned the "tza" of "hua:tza", I thought that someone might object that it was only a fossil remnant. But if I told my 10-year-old grandson that your "hua:tza" was merely a fossilized occurrence of "tza", he would ask me if I didn't believe in dinosaurs. pps.... On the issue of "pi:tza" and "po:tza (and "quetza" and "no:tza", the only other two verb morphemes in Nahuatl that end in "-tza"), I think that their transitivity and the fact that they end in "-tza" are not formally related. ppps.......If, as I'm hoping, there are comments forthcoming, could nocnihuan please erase this lengthy data list and not include it with your reply? **************************** * tza cala:ni1 *** cacalatza =nitla=onitlacacalatz. hazer ruido reboluiendo xicalas, o nuezes, o cosas semejantes. o abriendo y cerrando caxas, caxones, o puertas y ventanas. [p11-p51-dupl-cala:ni1-tza] 71m2-2. concacalachiliaya. they rattled it for him. [p33-o:n-dupl-cala:ni1-tza- ben-ya3 +tz>ch] FC. concacalatza. he rattles it. [p33-o:n-dupl-cala:ni1-tza] FC. iztecacalatza =mo. cantar la lechuza. [p54-iztitl-dupl-cala:ni1-tza +i>e] 71m2-11. mo[i]zticacalatza. it rasps its claws. [p54-iztitl-dupl-cala:ni1-tza] FC. netechcacalatza =mo=omonetechcacalatz. lo mismo es que motechachalatza. [p54-poss-tech1-dupl-cala:ni1-tza +embed +post.as.noun.2] 71m2-10. netechcacalatzaliztli =tla. herida assi. [p51-poss-tech1-dupl-cala:ni1- tza-liz +embed +post.as.noun.2] 71m1-13. quicacalatza. he rattles it. [p33-dupl-cala:ni1-tza] FC. quicacalatztiuh. he goes rattling it. [p33-dupl-cala:ni1-tza-prt1-ti1- yauh2 aux14b] FC. tlacacalatztihuetzi. it suddenly shakes something like a rattle. [p51- dupl-cala:ni1-prt1-tza-prt1-ti1-huetzi aux03] FC. word.count: 19 * tza capa:ni *** cacapatza =nitla=onitlacacapatz. hazer ruido con los pantuflos, o chinelas quando andan. [p11-p51-dupl-capa:ni-tza] 71m2-2. cuecacapatza =nino=oninocuecacapatz. hazer sonido o ruydo la muger con las naguas o faldillas, quando anda. [p11-p54-cue:itl-dupl-capa:ni- tza] 71m2-5. macacapatza =nino=. dar palmadas. [p11-p54-ma:itl-dupl-capa:ni-tza] 71m2-9. motencacapatza. it makes a smacking sound with its mouth. [p54-te:ntli- dupl-capa:ni-tza +cord] FC. teiztlaccacapatz. . [p52-iztlactli-dupl-capa:ni-tza-prt1] FC. word.count: 6 * tza chacua:ni *** chachacuatza =nitla=onitlachachacuatz. chapatear enel lodo. [p11-p51- dupl-chacua:ni-tza] 71m2-3. tlachachacuatztinemi. they go churning [e.g., in water]. [p51-dupl- chacua:ni-tza-prt1-ti1-nemi aux01] FC. word.count: 2 * tza chala:ni *** conchachalatza. they raise a clamor. [p33-o:n-dupl-chala:ni-tza] FC. netechachalatza =mo=omonetechachalatz. cutir, o herirse vnas cosas con otras. [p54-poss-tech1-dupl-chala:ni-tza +chch>ch +embed +post.as.noun.2] 71m2-10. netechachalatza =nitla. cutir vna vasija con otra. [p11-p51-poss-tech1- dupl-chala:ni-tza +chch>ch +embed +post.as.noun.2] 71m1-6. netechachalatzaliztli =tla. herida o el acto de herir o cutir vnas cosas con otras. [p51-p53-tech1-dupl-chala:ni-tza-liz +chch>ch +embed +post.as.noun.2] 71m2-22. netechchachalatza =mo. herirse vnas cosas con otras. [p54-poss-tech1- dupl-chala:ni-tza +chch>chch +embed +post.as.noun.2] 71m1-13. netechchachalatza =nitla. cutir vna vasija con otra. [p11-p51-poss- tech1-dupl-chala:ni-tza +chch>chch +embed +post.as.noun.2] 55m-4. netechchachalatzaliztli =tla. herida assi. [p51-poss-tech1-dupl- chala:ni-tza-liz +chch>chch +embed +post.as.noun.2] 71m1-13. * tza chapa:ni *** chachapatza =nitla=onitlachachapatz. chapatear por lodazales. [p11-p51- dupl-chapa:ni-tza] 71m2-3. colchachapatzaya. they spattered it with rubber. [p33-o:lli-dupl- chapa:ni-tza-ya3] FC. mochilchachapatz. it is blotched with red, chili-red. [p54-chi:lli- dupl-chapa:ni-tza-prt1] FC. mo[i]ztacachachapatza. it is spotted white. [p54-iztatl-v01b-delya- ca:6-dupl-chapa:ni-tza] FC. m[o]olchachapatz. it is blotched as with rubber. [p54-o:lli-dupl- chapa:ni-tza-prt1] FC. m[o]olchachapatz. it is spotted with black, it spotted itself with black. [p54-o:lli-dupl-chapa:ni-tza-prt1] FC. motlapalchachapatza. it is spattered with color. [p54-p51-pa:3-l1-dupl- chapa:ni-tza] FC. motlilchachapatz. it is blotched with black. [p54-tli:lli-dupl- chapa:ni-tza-prt1] FC. motlilchachapatz. it was spattered with black. [p54-tli:lli-dupl- chapa:ni-tza-prt1] FC. motlilchachazpatz. he is (as if) splashed with black. [p54-tli:lli- dupl-chapa:ni-tza-prt1] FC. tlaolchachapatzalli. spattered with rubber. [p51-ol?-dupl-chapa:ni-tza- l1] FC. * tza chaya:hui *** chachayatza =nitla=onitlachachayatz. derramar o esparzir por el suelo trigo, mayz, o cosa semejante. [p11-p51-dupl-chaya:hui-tza] 71m2-3. chachayatza =nitla. esparzir, o^descarriar. [p11-p51-dupl-chaya:hui- tza] 71m1-11. michayatza. . [michin-chaya:hui-tza +bakf +chch>ch] FC. word.count: 4 * tza chaya:hui? *** mocuechichayatza. it shakes its rattles. [p54-cuechtli--chaya:hui?-tza] FC. word.count: 1 * tza chichinaca *** chichinatz =te. cosa que aflige y atormenta. [p52-chichinaca-tza-prt1 .bbbb] 71m2-16. chichinatza =nite=onitechichinatz. afligir o atormentar a otro. [p11- p52-chichinaca-tza .bbbb] 71m2-4. chichinatza =nite. penar por tormento. [p11-p52-chichinaca-tza .bbbb] 71m1-17. chichinatzaliztli =te. aflicion o afligimiento tal. [p52-chichinaca- tza-liz .bbbb] 55m-00. chichinatzani =te. afligidor tal. [p52-chichinaca-tza-ni1 .bbbb] 55m- 00. chichinatzca. place of suffering. [chichinaca-tza-ca:n +del.n] FC. chichinatzqui =te. atormentador tal. [p52-chichinaca-tza-prt1-qui1 .bbbb] 71m2-16. chichinatztli =tla. afligido assi. [p51-chichinaca-tza-l2 .bbbb] 55m- 00. ichichinatzcan. . [poss-chichinaca-tza-prt1-ca:n] FC. quichichinachilia. they torture him. [p33-chichinaca-tza-- .bbbb] FC. quichichinatzaya. they tormented it. [p33-chichinaca-tza-ya3] FC. techichichinatzcan. place of suffering. [p52-dupl-chichinaca-tza-ca:n] FC. techichinatzcan. place of suffering. [p52-chichinaca-tza-ca:n] FC. techichinatzyan. . [p52-dupl-chichinaca-tza-ya:n +tzy>tzy] FC. yollochichinatza =nite=oniteyollochichinatz. afligir y angustiar a otro desta manera. [p11-p52-yo:lli-yo:tl1-chichinaca-tza +ly>ll .bbbb] 71m2-7. * tza chipi:ni *** conchichipitza. he spatters it. [p33-o:n-dupl-chipi:ni-tza] FC. conolchichipitza. they sprinkle it with liquid rubber. [p33-o:n-o:lli- dupl-chipi:ni-tza] FC. quichichipitza. they spatter it. [p33-dupl-chipi:ni-tza] FC. word.count: 3 * tza chito:ni *** quichichitotzaya. they tossed it out. [p33-dupl-chito:ni-tza-ya3] FC. quihualchichitotzqueh. they made it burst out. [p33-hua:l-dupl- chito:ni-tza-prt1-plur01] FC. word.count: 2 * tza chopi:nia: *** chochopitztli =tla. picada cosa de muchas picaduras. [p51-dupl- chopi:nia:-tza-l2] 71m1-17. * tza chopo:ni *** chochopotza =nitla=onitlachochopotz. comer o tragar grano o semilla el paxaro. [p11-p51-dupl-chopo:ni-tza] 71m2-4. tlachochopotza. it pecks repeatedly. [p51-dupl-chopo:ni-tza] FC. word.count: 2 * tza como:ni *** acocomotza. it beats the water. [a:tl1-dupl-como:ni-tza +cord] FC. cocomotza =nino=oninococomotz. paladear el ni¤o quando mama. [p11-p54- dupl-como:ni-tza] 71m2-4. cocomotza =nitla=onitlacocomotz. hazer estruendo con los pies. [p11- p51-dupl-como:ni-tza] 71m2-4. cocomotza =nitla. patear hazer estruendo. [p11-p51-dupl-como:ni-tza] 55m-15. cocomotzahui. it splashes. [dupl-como:ni-tza-l2-v03b] FC. cocomotzaliztli =tla. estruendo assi. [p51-dupl-como:ni-tza-liz] 55m- 9. cocomotzaliztli =tla. ruido de patatas, o de golpes. [p51-dupl-como:ni- tza-liz] 71m2-20. cohcomotzahui. it crackles. [dupl-como:ni-tza-l2-v03b] FC. comotzahui. it crackles. [como:ni-tza-l2-v03b +bakf] FC. quicocomotza. it sounds it, it crackles it. [p33-dupl-como:ni-tza +cord] FC. tlacocomotza. he makes a racket. [p51-dupl-como:ni-tza] FC. tlacocomotzaliztli. din, noise. [p51-dupl-como:ni-tza-liz] FC. tlacocomotzoani. one who makes a shattering din. [p51-dupl-como:ni-tza- l1--ni1] FC. tlalcocomotza =ni. ruydo hazer estos. [p11-tla:lli-dupl-como:ni-tza] 71m1-19. tlalcocomotzaliztli. ruido o estruendo de gente de guerra, o de cosa semejante. [tla:lli-dupl-como:ni-tza-liz] 71m2-21. * tza coto:ni *** cocototza =nite. a^pedazos sacar el ni¤o muerto del vientre. [p11-p52- dupl-coto:ni-tza] 71m1-2. cocototza =nitla=onitlacocototz. cortar algo muy menudo, o hazerlo pedazos. [p11-p51-dupl-coto:ni-tza] 71m2-4. cocototza =nitla. cortar algo muy menudo. [p11-p51-dupl-coto:ni-tza] 71m1-5. cocototza =nitla. cortar menudo. [p11-p51-dupl-coto:ni-tza] 55m-4. cocototza =nitla. desmenuzar pan o cosa assi. [p11-p51-dupl-coto:ni- tza] 55m-5. cocototza =nitla. destrozar a alguno. [p11-p51-dupl-coto:ni-tza] 55m- 20. cocototzaliztli =tla. desmenuzamiento. [p51-dupl-coto:ni-tza-liz] 55m- 5. cocototzaliztli =tla. despedazamiento de mantas rompidas en muchas partes, o desmenuzamiento de algo. [p51-dupl-coto:ni-tza-liz] 71m2- 20. cocototzani =tla. cortador tal. [p51-dupl-coto:ni-tza-ni1] 71m1-5. cocototzani =tla. desmenuzador. [p51-dupl-coto:ni-tza-ni1] 71m1-7. cocototztli =tla. cortada cosa assi. [p51-dupl-coto:ni-tza-l2] 71m1- 5. cocototztli =tla. cosa despedazada assi. [p51-dupl-coto:ni-tza-l2] 71m2-20. neuctlaxcalcototztli. hojuela de massa tendida. [neuctli-p51-ixca-l1- coto:ni-tza-l2 +bakf] 71m1-13. neuctlaxcalcototztli. hojuela de massa tendida. [neuctli-p51-ixca-l1- coto:ni-tza-l2 +bakf] 55m-11. omococototz. it was broken into fragments. [o:-p54-dupl-coto:ni-tza- prt1] FC. quicocototza. it breaks it up, it cuts it up. [p33-dupl-coto:ni-tza] FC. quixcocototza. she hacks her face. [p33-i:xtli-dupl-coto:ni-tza] FC. word.count: 23 * tza cuala:ni *** cuacualatza. it keeps blistering. [dupl-cuala:ni-tza] FC. mocuacualatza. it is boiled. [p54-dupl-cuala:ni-tza] FC. mocuacualatzaz. it will be boiled. [p54-dupl-cuala:ni-tza-z] FC. nexcuacualatza =nitla=onitlanexcuacualatz. adobar con cernada mantas viejas de algodon. [p11-p51-nextli-dupl-cuala:ni-tza] 71m2-12. cuala:ni-tza] 71m1-1. nexcuacualatzalli =tla. adobada ropa assi. [p51-nextli-dupl-cuala:ni- tza-l1] 55m-00. ommocuacualatza. it is boiled. [o:n-p54-dupl-cuala:ni-tza] FC. teacuacualatz. it blistered someone. [p52-a:tl1-dupl-cuala:ni-tza- prt1] FC. tlaacuacualatza. it causes blisters. [p51-a:tl1-dupl-cuala:ni-tza] FC. tlaacuacualatzani. something that irritates and causes blisters. [p51- a:tl1-dupl-cuala:ni-tza-ni1] FC. tlacuacualatzalli. something cooked. [p51-dupl-cuala:ni-tza-l1] FC. tlanexcuacualatzalli. something boiled with ashes. [p51-nextli-dupl- cuala:ni-tza-l1] FC. * tza cuepo:ni *** quicuecuepotza. he repeatedly bursts it. [p33-dupl-cuepo:ni-tza] FC. word.count: 1 * tza cuetla:ni *** cuecuetlatza =nitla=onitlacuecuetlatz. blandear lanza o cosa assi. [p11- p51-dupl-cuetla:ni-tza] 71m2-5. cuecuetlatza =nitla. blandear lanza, arbol, espada o cosa assi. [p11- p51-dupl-cuetla:ni-tza] 55m-2. cuecuetlatza =nitla. blandear lanza, espada o arbol. [p11-p51-dupl- cuetla:ni-tza] 71m1-4. word.count: 3 * tza cueyo:ni *** cuacuecueyotz =te. cosa espantosa que pone grima. [p52-cua:itl-dupl- cueyo:ni-tza-prt1] 71m2-18. cuacuecueyotz =te. espantable cosa que poner temor. [p52-cua:itl-dupl- cueyo:ni-tza-prt1] 55m-9. cuacuecueyotz =te. espantable cosa que pone gran temor. [p52-cua:itl- dupl-cueyo:ni-tza-prt1] 71m1-11. ixcuecueyotza =nin=oninixcuecueyotz. pesta¤ear. [p11-p54-i:xtli-dupl- cueyo:ni-tza] 71m2-8. ixcuecueyotza =nin. parpadear con los parpados. [p11-p54-i:xtli-dupl- cueyo:ni-tza] 71m1-16. ixcuecueyotza =nin. parpadear con los parpados. [p11-p54-i:xtli-dupl- cueyo:ni-tza] 55m-15. quicuecueyotza. they make it gleam. [p33-dupl-cueyo:ni-tza] FC. tecuecueyotz. it made someone throb. [p52-dupl-cueyo:ni-tza-prt1] FC. word.count: 8 * tza huahualoa *** tlahuahuahualtzatinemi =nohuiampa ni. ladrar por diuersas partes. [no:huiya:n-pa1 p11-p51-huahualoa-tza--ti1-nemi aux01] 55m-12. word.count: 1 * tza hual! *** huahualtza =nite=onitehuahualtzac. ladrar el perro a alguno. [p11-p52- dupl-hual!-tza +prob] 71m2-26. huahualtza =nite. ladrar contra otro. [p11-p52-dupl-hual!-tza] 71m1- 14. huahualtza =nite. ladrar contra otro. [p11-p52-dupl-hual!-tza] 55m- 12. huahualtza =nitla=onitlahuahualtzac. ladrar el perro. [p11-p51-dupl- hual!-tza +mis_analysis.] 71m2-24. huahualtza =nitla=onitlahuahualtzac. ladrar el perro. [p11-p51-dupl- hual!-tza] 71m2-26. huahualtza =nitla. ladrar los perros. [p11-p51-dupl-hual!-tza +prob] 71m1-14. huahualtza =nitla. ladrar los perros. [p11-p51-dupl-hual!-tza] 55m- 12. huahualtza =tehuan nitla. ladrar con otro. [poss-hua:n1 p11-p51-dupl- hual!-tza +out.rig] 71m1-14. huahualtza =tehuan nitla. ladrar con otro. [poss-hua:n1 p11-p51-dupl- hual!-tza +out.rig] 55m-12. huahualtzaliztli =te. ladrido de perros. [p52-dupl-hual!-tza-liz] 71m1- 14. huahualtzaliztli =te. ladrido de perros. [p52-dupl-hual!-tza-liz] 55m- 12. huahualtzaliztli =tla. el acto de ladrar el perro. [p51-dupl-hual!-tza- liz] 71m2-24. huahualtzaliztli =tla. ladrido de perros. [p51-dupl-hual!-tza-liz] 71m1-14. huahualtzaliztli =tla. ladrido de perros. [p51-dupl-hual!-tza-liz] 55m- 12. huahualtzani =tla. ladrador. [p51-dupl-hual!-tza-ni1] 71m2-24. huahualtzatinemi =nohuiampa nitla. ladrar por diuersas partes. [no:huiya:n-pa1 p11-p51-dupl-hual!-tza-ti1-nemi aux01 +mis_analysis.4a] 71m1-14. huahualtzatzaliztli =te. ladridos de perros. [p52-dupl-hual!-tza--liz] 71m2-19. nechhuahualtzaz. it will bark at me. [p31-dupl-hual!-tza-z] FC. word.count: 18 * tza hua:qui *** ahuatza =n=onahuatz. agotar agua. [p11-a:tl1-hua:qui-tza] 71m2-2. ahuatza =n. agotar el agua. [p11-a:tl1-hua:qui-tza] 55m-00. ahuatza =n. agotar el agua. [p11-a:tl1-hua:qui-tza] 71m1-1. ahuatzaliztli. agotamiento. [a:tl1-hua:qui-tza-liz] 55m-00. ahuatzaliztli. agotamiento de agua. [a:tl1-hua:qui-tza-liz] 71m2-2. ahuatzaliztli. agotamiento, o el acto de agotar agua. [a:tl1-hua:qui- tza-liz] 71m1-1. ahuatzalli. agotada agua. [a:tl1-hua:qui-tza-l1] 55m-00. ahuatzalli. agotada agua. [a:tl1-hua:qui-tza-l1] 71m1-1. ahuatzalli. agua agotada. [a:tl1-hua:qui-tza-l1] 71m2-2. ahuatzalpan. on dried mud. [a:tl1-hua:qui-tza-l1-pan +cord] FC. ahuatzani. agotador. [a:tl1-hua:qui-tza-ni1] 55m-00. ahuatzani. agotador de agua. [a:tl1-hua:qui-tza-ni1] 71m2-2. ahuatzani. agotador tal. [a:tl1-hua:qui-tza-ni1] 71m1-1. ahuatzqui. agotador. [a:tl1-hua:qui-tza-prt1-qui1] 55m-00. ahuatzqui. agotador de agua. [a:tl1-hua:qui-tza-prt1-qui1] 71m2-2. ahuatzqui. agotador tal. [a:tl1-hua:qui-tza-prt1-qui1] 71m1-1. canauhtlahuatzalli. dried duck. [canauhtli-p51-hua:qui-tza-l1] FC. chamolhuatzalli. dried scarlet parrot feather. [chamolin-hua:qui-tza- l1] FC. cototzhuatzani =tla. marchitador. [p51-cototztli-hua:qui-tza-ni1] 71m1- 15. coyamenacahuatzalli. tocino. [coyametl-nacatl-hua:qui-tza-l1] 71m1- 20. coyamenacahuatzalli. tocino. [coyametl-nacatl-hua:qui-tza-l1] 71m2-4. coyamenacahuatzalli. tocino. [coyametl-nacatl-hua:qui-tza-l1] 55m-19. cuahuatzallah. . [cuahuitl-hua:qui-tza-l1-tlah2 .ahd] FC. cuahuatzalli. dry wood. [cuahuitl-hua:qui-tza-l1 +ww>w] FC. cuanhuatza =nite. enflaquecer a otro. [p11-p52-cuahuitl-hua:qui-tza +ww>nw] 55m-7. cuanhuatza =nite. enflaquecer a otro. [p11-p52-cuahuitl-hua:qui-tza +ww>nw] 71m1-10. cuauhhuatzalli. le¤a seca para quemar. [cuahuitl-hua:qui-tza-l1] 55m- 12. cuauhtizahuatzalli. le¤a seca para^quemar. [cuahuitl-ti:zatl-hua:qui- tza-l1 +prob] 71m1-14. cuauhtizahuatzalli. le¤a seca para quemar. [cuahuitl-ti:zatl-hua:qui- tza-l1 +prob] 55m-12. cuauhtizahuatzalli. palo seco, o le¤o. [cuahuitl-ti:zatl-hua:qui-tza- l1 +prob] 71m2-15. cuauhuatza =nite=onitecuauhuatz. enflaquecer a otro desta manera. [p11- p52-cuahuitl-hua:qui-tza +ww>w] 71m2-15. cuauhuatzalli. dried wood. [cuahuitl-hua:qui-tza-l1 +ww>w] FC. cuauhuatzalli. le¤a seca para^quemar. [cuahuitl-hua:qui-tza-l1 +ww>w] 71m1-14. cuauhuatzalli. palo. [cuahuitl-hua:qui-tza-l1 +ww>w] 71m1-16. cuauhuatzalli. palo. [cuahuitl-hua:qui-tza-l1 +ww>w] 55m-15. cuauhuatzalli. palo seco, o le¤o. [cuahuitl-hua:qui-tza-l1 +ww>w] 71m2- 15. cuauhuatzalti. it becomes a dried tree. [cuahuitl-hua:qui-tza-l1-v01a .ahd +ww>w] FC. cuauhuatzaltontli. palillo seco. [cuahuitl-hua:qui-tza-l1-to:n-tl +ww>w] 71m2-15. cuauhuatzaltontli. palo peque¤o o palillo. [cuahuitl-hua:qui-tza-l1- to:n-tl +ww>w] 71m1-16. cuauhuatzaltontli. palo peque¤o o palillo. [cuahuitl-hua:qui-tza-l1- to:n-tl +ww>w] 55m-15. cuitlatexcalhuatzaliztli. colicapassio. [cuitlatl-texcalli1-hua:qui- tza-liz] 71m2-5. cuiyatlahuatzalli. hard-baked frog. [cueyatl-p51-hua:qui-tza-l1 +e>i] FC. ecahuatza =nitla=onitlaecahuatz. orear algo, poniendolo al ayre. [p11- p51-e:catl-hua:qui-tza] 71m2-5. ecahuatza =nitla. orear poner al ayre. [p11-p51-e:catl-hua:qui-tza] 71m1-16. ecahuatza =nitla. orear poner al ayre. [p11-p51-e:catl-hua:qui-tza] 55m-15. ecahuatza =nitla. secar al ayre. [p11-p51-e:catl-hua:qui-tza] 71m1- 19. eecahuatza =nitla=onitlaeecahuatz. orear algo poniendolo al ayere. [p11-p51-dupl-e:catl-hua:qui-tza] 71m2-5. eecahuatza =nitla. secar al ayre. [p11-p51-dupl-e:catl-hua:qui-tza] 71m1-19. eecahuatza =nitla. secar al ayre. [p11-p51-dupl-e:catl-hua:qui-tza] 55m-18. ehuahuatza =nitla=. secar pieles o cueros. [p11-p51-e:huatl-hua:qui- tza] 71m2-5. ehuahuatzqui. pellejero que las cura. [e:huatl-hua:qui-tza-prt1-qui1] 71m1-17. ehuahuatzqui. pellejero que los seca. [e:huatl-hua:qui-tza-prt1-qui1] 71m2-5. ehuahuatzqui. pellejero que las cura. [e:huatl-hua:qui-tza-prt1-qui1] 55m-15. hecahuatza =nitla. secar al ayre. [p11-dupl-e:catl-hua:qui-tza] 55m- 18. hicoxhuatzalli. higo seca fruta. [++hicox-hua:qui-tza-l1 +spanish] 55m- 11. hicoxhuatzalli. higo seco fruta. [++hicox-hua:qui-tza-l1 +spanish] 71m1-13. hicoxhuatzalli. higos passados, o secos. [++hicox-hua:qui-tza-l1 +spanish] 71m2-5. huahuatzqui =mo. el que se enxugo con lienzo despues que selauo. [p54- dupl-hua:qui-tza-prt1-c2] 71m2-10. huahuatzqui =mo. enxuto assi. [p54-dupl-hua:qui-tza-prt1-c2] 55m-8. huatza =nino=oninohuatz. enxugarse. [p11-p54-hua:qui-tza] 71m2-26. huatza =nino. enxugarse con lienzo o cosa assi. [p11-p54-hua:qui-tza] 55m-8. huatza =nino. enxugarse con lienzo o con cosa assi. [p11-p54-hua:qui- tza] 71m1-10. huatza =nite=onitehuatz. enxugar, secar, o enflaquecer a otro. [p11- p52-hua:qui-tza] 71m2-26. huatza =nite. emmagrecer a otro. [p11-p52-hua:qui-tza] 55m-7. huatza =nite. emmagrecer a otro. [p11-p52-hua:qui-tza] 71m1-9. huatza =nite. enflaquecer a otro. [p11-p52-hua:qui-tza] 55m-7. huatza =nite. enflaquecer a otro. [p11-p52-hua:qui-tza] 71m1-10. huatza =nitla=onitlahuatz. enxugar, o secar algo. [p11-p51-hua:qui- tza] 71m2-26. huatza =nitla. enxugar algo. [p11-p51-hua:qui-tza] 55m-8. huatza =nitla. enxugar algo. [p11-p51-hua:qui-tza] 71m1-10. huatza =nitla. secar. [p11-p51-hua:qui-tza] 71m1-19. huatza =nitla. tostar. [p11-p51-hua:qui-tza] 55m-19. huatza in atl =nic. agotar el agua. [p11-p33-hua:qui-tza in a:tl1] 55m- 00. huatza in atl =nic. agotar el agua. [p11-p33-hua:qui-tza in a:tl1] 71m1-1. huatzalli =tla. cosa enxugada, o secada. [p51-hua:qui-tza-l1] 71m2- 24. huatzalli =tla. enxugado o enxuto. [p51-hua:qui-tza-l1] 55m-8. huatzalli =tla. enxugado o enxuto. [p51-hua:qui-tza-l1] 71m1-10. huatzalli =tla. seco cosa seca. [p51-hua:qui-tza-l1] 71m1-19. huatzalli =tla. seco, cosa seca. [p51-hua:qui-tza-l1] 55m-18. huatzalli =tla. tostada cosa. [p51-hua:qui-tza-l1] 55m-19. huatzaloni. means of drying something. [hua:qui-tza-lo:2-ni1] FC. huatzqui =mo. enxuto assi. [p54-hua:qui-tza-prt1-qui1] 71m1-10. huatztli =tla. cosa enxugada, o secada. [p51-hua:qui-tza-l2] 71m2-24. huatztli =tla. enxugado o enxuto. [p51-hua:qui-tza-l2] 55m-8. huatztli =tla. enxugado o enxuto. [p51-hua:qui-tza-l2] 71m1-10. huatztli =tla. seco cosa seca. [p51-hua:qui-tza-l2] 71m1-19. huatztli =tla. seco, cosa seca. [p51-hua:qui-tza-l2] 55m-18. ihhuitlahuatzalli. glue-hardened feather. [ihhuitl-p51-hua:qui-tza-l1] FC. itlahuatzallo. its glue-hardened feathers. [poss-p51-hua:qui-tza-l1- yo:tl1 +ly>ll] FC. ixtlapalhuatzaleh. one who has a red face. [i:xtli-p51-pa:3-l1-hua:qui- tza-l1-eh1] FC. michhuatzaltepiton Êstillan. sardina arrencada pece conocido. [++castillan michin-hua:qui-tza-l1-tepi-to:n +spanish] 71m1-19. michhuatzaltepiton Êstillan. sardina arencada pece conocido. [++castillan michin-hua:qui-tza-l1-tepi-to:n +spanish] 55m-18. mohuatza. it hibernates. [p54-hua:qui-tza] FC. mohuatza. it is dried. [p54-hua:qui-tza] FC. m[o]ixtlapalhuatzalhuia. her face is covered with rouge. [p54-i:xtli- p51-pa:3-l1-hua:qui-tza-l1-v05b] FC. m[o]ixtlapalhuatzalhuia. his face is colored with red ochre. [p54- i:xtli-p51-pa:3-l1-hua:qui-tza-l1-v05b] FC. m[o]ixtlapalhuatzalhuiaya. their faces were covered with brown. [p54- i:xtli-p51-pa:3-l1-hua:qui-tza-l1-v05b-ya3] FC. m[o]ixtlapalhuatzalhuih. his face was colored red. [p54-i:xtli-p51- pa:3-l1-hua:qui-tza-l1-v05b-prt1] FC. motenhuatzani. one who parches his lips. [p54-te:ntli-hua:qui-tza-ni1] FC. motlehuatza. it is braised. [p54-tletl1-hua:qui-tza] FC. motlehuatzaz. it will roast. [p54-tletl1-hua:qui-tza-z] FC. motzauchuatza. it is glue-hardened. [p54-tzacui-l2-hua:qui-tza] FC. nacatlahuatzalli. dried meat. [nacatl-p51-hua:qui-tza-l1] FC. nacatlatepihuatzalli. jerked meat. [nacatl--hua:qui-tza-l1] FC. nehuatzaloni. something for keeping oneself dry. [p53-hua:qui-tza-lo:2- ni1] FC. netenhuatzaliztli. abstention from food. [p53-te:ntli-hua:qui-tza-liz] FC. neuctlatepihuatzalli. turron de miel. [neuctli-p51-tetl1-pi:tztli- hua:qui-tza-l1] 71m1-20. neuctlatepihuatzalli. turron de miel. [neuctli-p51-tetl1-pi:tztli- hua:qui-tza-l1] 55m-19. neuctlatepitzhuatzalli. turron. [neuctli-p51-tetl1-pi:tztli-hua:qui- tza-l1] 71m2-11. nextamalhuatzalli. . [nextli-tamalli-hua:qui-tza-l1] FC. pilichhuatzani =tla. marchitador. [p51-pili:ni-l2-hua:qui-tza-ni1 +n>ch] 71m1-15. pitzometzhuatzalli. pernil de tocino. [pitzotl-metztli2-hua:qui-tza- l1] 71m1-17. pitzometzhuatzalli. pernil de tocino. [pitzotl-metztli2-hua:qui-tza- l1] 55m-15. pitzometzhuatzalli. pernil de tocino. [pitzotl-metztli2-hua:qui-tza- l1] 71m2-14. quicuahuatzaya. they thinned him. [p33-cuahuitl-hua:qui-tza-ya3] FC. quihuatza. it dries it, it sucks it dry. [p33-hua:qui-tza] FC. quihuatza. they dry it up. [p33-hua:qui-tza] FC. quimiztayocuauhuatza. they cure them in brine. [p43-iztatl-yo:tl1- cuahuitl-hua:qui-tza] FC. quincuitlahuatzqueh. they withered their entrails. [p43-cuitlatl- hua:qui-tza-prt1-plur01] FC. quintlehuatza. they roast them. [p43-tletl1-hua:qui-tza] FC. quitlehuatza. they broil it. [p33-tletl1-hua:qui-tza] FC. quitletlehuatzaya. they roasted it. [p33-dupl-tletl1-hua:qui-tza-ya3] FC. quiztayocuahuatza. they thin him with brine. [p33-iztatl-yo:tl1- cuahuitl-hua:qui-tza] FC. tepitztentli =hicoxhuatzalli tla. higos enserados. [++hicox-hua:qui- tza-l1 p51-tetl1-pi:tztli-te:mi-caus09=0-l2 +spanish] 71m1-13. tepitztentli =hicoxhuatzalli tla. higos enserados. [++hicox-hua:qui- tza-l1 p51-tetl1-pi:tztli-te:mi-caus09=0-l2 +spanish] 55m-11. tepoztlapechtlatlahuatzaloni. parrillas para assar. [tepoztli-tla?- pechtli-dupl-p51-hua:qui-tza-lo:2-ni1 +fusion] 55m-15. tepoztlapechtlatlahuatzaloni. parillas para assar algo. [tepoztli-tla?- pechtli-dupl-p51-hua:qui-tza-lo:2-ni1 +fusion] 71m2-18. tepoztlapechtlatlehuatzaloni. parrillas para assar. [tepoztli-tla?- pechtli-tla?-tletl1-hua:qui-tza-lo:2-ni1] 71m1-16. tetzauhcahuatzalli chichihualayotl =tla. queso. [p51-tetza:hua-prt1- ca:6-hua:qui-tza-l1 chi:chi:3-hua1-l1-a:tl1-yo:tl1] 71m1-18. tetzauhcahuatzalli chichihualayotl =tla. queso. [p51-tetza:hua-prt1- ca:6-hua:qui-tza-l1 chi:chi:3-hua1-l1-a:tl1-yo:tl1] 55m-16. tetzauhcahuatzalli chichihualayotl =tla. queso curado, y anejo. [p51- tetza:hua-prt1-ca:6-hua:qui-tza-l1 chi:chi:3-hua1-l1-a:tl1-yo:tl1] 71m2-23. tetzolhuatzalo. . [tetzotl-v01b-delya-l1-hua:qui-tza-lo:1] FC. texhuatzalli. dried maize dough. [teci-l2-hua:qui-tza-l1] FC. timotenhuatzaz. you will dry your lips. [p12-p54-te:ntli-hua:qui-tza- z] FC. timotenhuatzaz. you will parch your lips. [p12-p54-te:ntli-hua:qui-tza- z] FC. tlahuatzalli. dried. [p51-hua:qui-tza-l1] FC. tlahuatzalli. glue-hardened (i.e., feathers). [p51-hua:qui-tza-l1] FC. tlahuatzalli. something baked. [p51-hua:qui-tza-l1] FC. tlahuatzalli. something dried, hardened. [p51-hua:qui-tza-l1] FC. tlahuatzalli. something which has been dried. [p51-hua:qui-tza-l1] FC. tlahuatzaloni. means of drying something. [p51-hua:qui-tza-lo:2-ni1] FC. tlaixtlapalhuatzalhuilli. one who face is reddened. [p51-i:xtli-p51- pa:3-l1-hua:qui-tza-l1-v05b-l1] FC. tlapalhuatzalli. color colorado y afinado, hecho en tablillas o pastillas. [p51-pa:3-l1-hua:qui-tza-l1] 71m2-22. tlapalhuatzalli. colorado fino. [p51-pa:3-l1-hua:qui-tza-l1] 55m-3. tlapalhuatzalli. colorado fino. [p51-pa:3-l1-hua:qui-tza-l1] 71m1-5. tlapalhuatzalli. dried pigment. [p51-pa:3-l1-hua:qui-tza-l1] FC. tlapalhuatzalloa. it is treated with dry color. [p51-pa:3-l1-hua:qui- tza-l1-yo:tl1-v09 +ly>ll] FC. tlapalhuatzaltica. with dried colors, using dried colors. [p51-pa:3-l1- hua:qui-tza-l1-ti1-ca2] FC. tlatlehuatzalli =tocino. torrezno de tocino. [++tocino p51-tletl1- hua:qui-tza-l1 +spanish] 71m1-20. tlatlehuatzalli. roasted. [p51-tletl1-hua:qui-tza-l1] FC. tlatlehuatzalli. something roasted. [p51-tletl1-hua:qui-tza-l1] FC. tlatlehuatzalo. there is roasting of something. [p51-tletl1-hua:qui- tza-lo:2] FC. tlatzauchuatzalli. something which has been glued and dried. [p51- tzacui-l2-hua:qui-tza-l1] FC. tlehuatza =nitla=onitlatlehuatz. asar algo en asador o en parrillae. [p11-p51-tletl1-hua:qui-tza] 71m2-25. tlehuatza =nitla. assar en assador. [p11-p51-tletl1-hua:qui-tza] 55m- 1. tlehuatza =nitla. assar en assador o en parrillas. [p11-p51-tletl1- hua:qui-tza] 71m1-3. tlehuatza =nitla. secar al huego. [p11-p51-tletl1-hua:qui-tza] 71m1- 19. tlehuatza =nitla. secar al huego. [p11-p51-tletl1-hua:qui-tza] 55m- 18. tlehuatza =nitla. tostar. [p11-p51-tletl1-hua:qui-tza] 71m1-20. tlehuatzaliztli =tla. assamiento tal. [p51-tletl1-hua:qui-tza-liz] 71m1-3. tlehuatzalli =tla. assada cosa assi. [p51-tletl1-hua:qui-tza-l1] 55m- 1. tlehuatzalli =tla. assada cosa assi. [p51-tletl1-hua:qui-tza-l1] 71m1- 3. tlehuatzalli =tla. cosa asada en asador, o en parrillas de hierro. [p51-tletl1-hua:qui-tza-l1] 71m2-24. tlehuatzalli =tla. tostada cosa. [p51-tletl1-hua:qui-tza-l1] 71m1-20. tlehuatzaloni =tla. asador. [p51-tletl1-hua:qui-tza-lo:2-ni1] 71m2- 24. tlehuatzaloni =tla. assador en que assan. [p51-tletl1-hua:qui-tza-lo:2- ni1] 55m-1. tlehuatzaloni =tla. assador en que assan. [p51-tletl1-hua:qui-tza-lo:2- ni1] 71m1-3. tlehuatztli =tla. . [p51-tletl1- hua:qui-tza-l2] 71m2-24. tlehuatztli =tla. assada cosa assi. [p51-tletl1-hua:qui-tza-l2] 55m- 1. tlehuatztli =tla. assada cosa assi. [p51-tletl1-hua:qui-tza-l2] 71m1- 3. tlepitzhuatz =te. dolor de algun golpe enla carne, que escueze mucho, y haze afligir y encoger al que le recibio. [p52-tletl1-pi:tza- hua:qui-tza--] 71m2-19. tletlepitzhuatza =nite=onitetletlepitzhuatz. hazer a otro ronchas o se¤ales de cardenales, con los azotes o palos que le di. [p11-p52- dupl-tletl1-pi:tza-hua:qui-tza] 71m2-25. tochtlahuatzaltontli. small dried rabbit. [to:chin-p51-hua:qui-tza-l1- to:n] FC. tocinotlatlehuatzalli. torrezno de tocino. [++tocino-p51-tletl1- hua:qui-tza-l1 +spanish] 55m-19. tonalcuauhuatza =nitla=onitlatonalcuauhuatz. passar o secar algo al sol, o asolear. [p11-p51-to:n2-v12-l1-cuahuitl-hua:qui-tza +ww>w] 71m2-25. tonalcuauhuatza =nitla. passar al sol alguna cosa o asolear. [p11-p51- to:n2-v12-l1-cuahuitl-hua:qui-tza +ww>w] 71m1-16. tonalcuauhuatza =nitla. passar al sol o asolear. [p11-p51-to:n2-v12-l1- cuahuitl-hua:qui-tza +ww>w] 55m-15. tonalhuatza =nitla=onitlatonalhuatz. enxugar algo al sol, o passar higos o passas. &c. [p11-p51-to:n2-v12-l1-hua:qui-tza] 71m2-25. tonalhuatza =nitla. aenxugar al sol. [p11-p51-to:n2-v12-l1-hua:qui- tza] 71m1-10. tonalhuatza =nitla. passar al sol alguna cosa o asolear. [p11-p51- to:n2-v12-l1-hua:qui-tza] 71m1-16. tonalhuatza =nitla. passar al sol o asolear. [p11-p51-to:n2-v12-l1- hua:qui-tza] 55m-15. tonalhuatza =nitla. secar al sol. [p11-p51-to:n2-v12-l1-hua:qui-tza] 71m1-19. tonalhuatza =nitla. secar al sol. [p11-p51-to:n2-v12-l1-hua:qui-tza] 55m-18. totollalehuatzalli. roasted turkey hen. [to:tolin-p51--tletl1-hua:qui- tza-l1 +l.for.tl] FC. totopochhuatza =nitla. tostar. [p11-p51-dupl-topo:ni-l2-hua:qui-tza +n>ch] 71m1-20. totopochhuatza =nitla. tostar. [p11-p51-dupl-topo:ni-l2-hua:qui-tza +n>ch] 55m-19. totopochhuatzalli =tla. cosa muy tostada asi como reuanadas de pan, tortillas o cosa assi. [p51-dupl-topo:ni-l2-hua:qui-tza-l1 +n>ch] 71m2-24. totopochhuatzalli =tla. tostada cosa. [p51-dupl-topo:ni-l2-hua:qui-tza- l1 +n>ch] 71m1-20. totopochhuatzalli =tla. tostada cosa. [p51-dupl-topo:ni-l2-hua:qui-tza- l1 +n>ch] 55m-19. tzauchuatzalli. something which has been glued and dried. [tzacui-l2- hua:qui-tza-l1] FC. xocomecahuatzalli. passa vua passada. [xocotl-mecatl-hua:qui-tza-l1] 71m1-16. xocomecahuatzalli. passa vna passada. [xocotl-mecatl-hua:qui-tza-l1] 55m-15. xocomecahuatzalli. passa vua seca. [xocotl-mecatl-hua:qui-tza-l1] 71m2- 27. xohuatza =nite=onitexohuatz. enflaquecer o emmagrecer a otro. [p11-p52- xo:tl2-hua:qui-tza] 71m2-27. xohuatza =nite. emmagrecer a otro. [p11-p52-xo:tl2-hua:qui-tza] 55m- 7. xohuatza =nite. emmagrecer a otro. [p11-p52-xo:tl2-hua:qui-tza] 71m1- 9. xohuatztli =tla. hoja de mayz seca. [p51-xo:tl2-hua:qui-tza-l2] 71m1- 13. xohuatztli =tla. hoja de mayz seca. [p51-xo:tl2-hua:qui-tza-l2] 55m- 11. xohuatztli =tla. hoja de mayz seca para bestias. [p51-xo:tl2-hua:qui- tza-l2] 71m2-25. word.count: 207 * tza huiyo:ni *** huihuiyotzaloz. there will be trembling. [dupl-huiyo:ni-tza-lo:2-z] FC. tlahuihuiyotza. he causes trembling. [p51-dupl-huiyo:ni-tza] FC. word.count: 2 * tza ihcahuaca *** quihcahuatza. . [p33-ihcahuaca-tza] FC. quihcahuatztihui. they go crying out at him. [p33-ihcahuaca-tza-prt1- ti1-yauh2 aux14b] FC. quihcahuatztihui. they go along buzzing at it. [p33-ihcahuaca-tza-prt1- ti1-yauh2 aux14b +cord] FC. quihcahuatztihui. they go shouting at it. [p33-ihcahuaca-tza-prt1-ti1- yauh2 aux14b] FC. quihcahuatztihuia. they went shouting at him. [p33-ihcahuaca-tza-prt1- ti1-yauh2-ya3 aux14b] FC. quihcahuatztihuitze. they come making noise at it. [p33-ihcahuaca-tza- prt1-ti1-hui:tz-plur05 aux06] FC. quihcahuatztinemi. he keeps shouting at them. [p33-ihcahuaca-tza-prt1- ti1-nemi aux01] FC. quimihcahuatza. they roar at them. [p43-ihcahuaca-tza] FC. quimihcahuatztihui. they go roaring at them. [p43-ihcahuaca-tza-prt1- ti1-yauh2 aux14b] FC. quimihcahuatztihui. they roar at them. [p43-ihcahuaca-tza-prt1-ti1- yauh2 aux14b] FC. quinhualihcahuatza. they roar at them. [p43-hua:l-ihcahuaca-tza] FC. titla[i]hcahuatzaz. you will bellow. [p12-p51-ihcahuaca-tza-z] FC. tla[i]hcahuatza. he rumbles. [p51-ihcahuaca-tza] FC. tla[i]hcahuatza. she gives war cries. [p51-ihcahuaca-tza] FC. tla[i]hcahuatztihui. they go shouting. [p51-ihcahuaca-tza-prt1-ti1- yauh2 aux14b] FC. word.count: 16 * tza mol! *** momoltza =nitla. desmenuzar pan o cosa assi. [p11-p51-dupl-mol!-tza +prob] 55m-5. momoltza =nitla. desmenuzar pan o cosa semejante. [p11-p51-dupl-mol!- tza] 71m1-7. momoltza =nitla. despedazar pan. [p11-p51-dupl-mol!-tza] 71m1-8. word.count: 3 * tza molo:ni *** momolotza =nitla=onitlamomolotz. hazer espuma enel agua, meneandola. [p11-p51-dupl-molo:ni-tza] 71m2-10. momolotza =nitla. mecer o menear el agua haziendo ruido. [p11-p51-dupl- molo:ni-tza] 71m1-15. momolotzaliztli =tla. desmenuzamiento. [p51-dupl-molo:ni-tza-liz] 55m- 5. momolotzaliztli =tla. desmenuzamiento de pan, queso, o de cosas semejantes. [p51-dupl-molo:ni-tza-liz] 71m2-22. momolotzaliztli =tla. desmenuzamiento tal. [p51-dupl-molo:ni-tza-liz] 71m1-7. momolotzalli =tla. cosa desmenuzada assi. [p51-dupl-molo:ni-tza-l1] 71m2-22. momolotzalli =tla. desmenuzado. [p51-dupl-molo:ni-tza-l1] 55m-5. momolotzalli =tla. desmenuzado assi. [p51-dupl-molo:ni-tza-l1] 71m1- 7. momolotzani =tla. desmenuzador. [p51-dupl-molo:ni-tza-ni1] 71m1-7. quimomolotza. he bubbles it. [p33-dupl-molo:ni-tza] FC. quimomolotza. she swirls it. [p33-dupl-molo:ni-tza +n.for.m] FC. tlamomolotztinemi. . [p51-dupl-molo:ni-tza-prt1-ti1-nemi aux01] FC. word.count: 12 * tza nal! *** nanaltza =nite. ladrar contra otro. [p11-p52-dupl-nal!-tza] 71m1-14. nanaltza =nite. ladrar contra otro. [p11-p51-dupl-nal!-tza +prob] 55m- 12. nanaltza =nitla=onitlananaltzac. ladrar el perro. [p11-p51-dupl-nal!- tza] 71m2-11. nanaltzaliztli =tla. ladrido de perros. [p51-dupl-nal!-tza-liz] 71m1- 14. nanaltzaliztli =tla. ladrido de perros. [p51-dupl-nal!-tza-liz] 55m- 12. nanaltzatinemi =nohuian nitla. ladrar por diuersas partes. [no:huiya:n p11-p51-dupl-nal!-tza-ti1-nemi aux01 +prob] 71m1-14. nanaltzatinemi =nohuian nitla. ladrar por diuersas partes. [no:huiya:n p11-p51-dupl-nal!-tza-ti1-nemi aux01 +prob] 55m-12. word.count: 7 * tza pach! *** papatza =nitla=onitlapapatzac. cortar almendrada o leche, quando la cuezen. [p11-p51-dupl-pach!-tza +chtz>tz +prob] 71m2-14. papatza =nitla. cortar almendrada. [p11-p51-dupl-pach!-tza +chtz>tz +prob] 71m1-5. word.count: 2 * tza patla:ni *** tlapapatlatza. she flutters. [p51-dupl-patla:ni-tza +cord] FC. tlapapatlatztinemi. it keeps fluttering. [p51-dupl-patla:ni-tza-prt1- ti1-nemi aux01] FC. tlapapatlatztinemi. they go fluttering. [p51-dupl-patla:ni-tza-prt1- ti1-nemi aux01] FC. tlapapatlatztoc. it lies beating [i.e., its wings]. [p51-dupl-patla:ni- tza-prt1-ti1-o-prt2 aux13] FC. word.count: 4 * tza paya:ni *** tlaxcalpapayatza =ni. desmigar algo. [p11-p51-ixca-l1-dupl-paya:ni-tza] 71m1-7. tlaxcalpapayatzani. desmigador. [p51-ixca-l1-dupl-paya:ni-tza-ni1] 71m1-7. tlaxcalpapayatzqui. desmigador. [p51-ixca-l1-dupl-paya:ni-tza-prt1- qui1] 71m1-7. tlaxcalpapayatztli. desmigada cosa. [p11-p51-ixca-l1-dupl-paya:ni-tza- l2] 71m1-7. word.count: 4 * tza po:ca *** m[o]ixtlilpopotz. his face was covered with soot. [p54-i:xtli-tli:lli- dupl-po:ca-tza-prt1] FC. m[o]ixtlilpopotzqueh. they applied black paint to their [refl.] faces. [p54-i:xtli-tli:lli-po:ca-tza-prt1-plur01] FC. m[o]ixtlilpopotztinenca. he went about with his face smoke-black. [p54- i:xtli-tli:lli-po:ca-tza-prt1-ti1-nemi-prt1-ca10 aux01] FC. quixtlilpopotza. they blacken their faces. [p33-i:xtli-tli:lli-dupl- po:ca-tza] FC. tlaixtlilpopotzalli. having his face covered with soot. [p51-i:xtli- tli:lli-dupl-po:ca-tza-l1] FC. word.count: 6 * tza polo:ni *** nimitzpohpohlotza. I speak to you unintelligibly. [p11-p32-dupl-polo:ni- tza] FC. quinhualpopolotz. he spoke to them in a strange tongue. [p43-hua:l- dupl-polo:ni-tza-prt1] FC. ticpopolotza. you speak to him in a strange tongue. [p12-p33-dupl- polo:ni-tza] FC. word.count: 3 * tza quintli *** conquiquinatza. he growls at him. [p33-o:n-dupl-quintli-v03b-tza] FC. quiquinatza =nite=onitequiquinatz. rifar el cauallo. [p11-p52-dupl- quintli-v03b-tza] 71m2-15. quiquinatza =nite. rifar los cauallos. [p11-p52-dupl-quintli-v03b-tza] 71m1-18. quiquinatza =nite. rifar los cauallos. [p11-p52-dupl-quintli-v03b-tza] 55m-17. quiquinatzani =te. gru¤idor assi como el perro, que esta gru¤iendo y mostrando los dientes. [p52-dupl-quintli-v03b-tza-ni1] 71m2-18. quiquinatzani =te. rifadora cosa. [p52-dupl-quintli-v03b-tza-ni1] 71m1- 18. quiquinatzani =te. rifadora cosa. [p52-dupl-quintli-v03b-tza-ni1] 55m- 17. tequiquinatza. he grumbles at people. [p52-dupl-quintli-v03b-tza] FC. tequiquinatza. it moans at someone. [p52-dupl-quintli-v03b-tza] FC. tlalquiquinatza =ni. ruydo hazer estos. [p11-tla:lli-dupl-quintli-v03b- tza] 71m1-19. tlalquiquinatza =ni. ruydo hazer estos. [p11-tla:lli-dupl-quintli-v03b- tza] 55m-17. word.count: 11 * tza tecui:ni *** itetecuitzauhca. its asperous place. [poss-dupl-tecui:ni-tza-l2-v03b- prt1-ca:n +del.n] FC. quitetecuitza. it makes it crackle. [p33-dupl-tecui:ni-tza] FC. tehtecuitztic. chattering. [dupl-tecui:ni-tza-l2-tic] FC. tehtecuitztic. crackling. [dupl-tecui:ni-tza-l2-tic] FC. tetecuitza =nitla=. hazer estruendo con los pies. [p11-p51-dupl- tecui:ni-tza] 71m2-18. tetecuitza =nitla. estruendo, hazer con los pies o con golpes. [p11- p51-dupl-tecui:ni-tza] 55m-9. tetecuitza =nitla. estruendo hazer con los pies o con golpes. [p11-p51- dupl-tecui:ni-tza] 71m1-11. tetecuitza =nitla. patear, hazer estruendo. [p11-p51-dupl-tecui:ni- tza] 71m1-16. tetecuitza =nitla. patear hazer estruendo. [p11-p51-dupl-tecui:ni-tza] 55m-15. tetecuitzahui. it crackles. [dupl-tecui:ni-tza-l2-v03b] FC. tetecuitzahui. they crackle. [dupl-tecui:ni-tza-l2-v03b] FC. tetecuitzaliztli =tla. estruendo assi. [p51-dupl-tecui:ni-tza-liz] 55m- 9. tetecuitzaliztli =tla. estruendo de patadas, o de golpes. [p51-dupl- tecui:ni-tza-liz] 71m2-23. tetecuitzaliztli =tla. estruendo assi. [p51-dupl-tecui:ni-tza-liz] 71m1-11. tetecuitzaliztli =tla. ruydo de pies pateando. [p51-dupl-tecui:ni-tza- liz] 71m1-19. tetecuitzaliztli =tla. ruydo de pies pateando. [p51-dupl-tecui:ni-tza- liz] 55m-17. tetecuitzpol. asperous. [dupl-tecui:ni-tza-l2-tic] FC. tetecuitztic. . [dupl-tecui:ni-tza-l2-tic] FC. tetecuitztic. asperous. [dupl-tecui:ni-tza-l2-tic] FC. tetecuitztic. chattering. [dupl-tecui:ni-tza-l2-tic] FC. tetecuitztic. crackling. [dupl-tecui:ni-tza-l2-tic] FC. tetecuitztic. rough. [dupl-tecui:ni-tza-l2-tic] FC. tlahtlatetecuitzoa. he raises a clattering din. [dupl-p51-dupl- tecui:ni-tza-l2-- +fusion] FC. tlaltetecuitza =ni. ruydo hazer estos. [p11-tla:lli-dupl-tecui:ni-tza] 71m1-19. tlaltetecuitza =ni. ruydo hazer estos. [p11-tla:lli-dupl-tecui:ni-tza] 55m-17. tlaltetecuitzaliztli. estruendo, o ruido de gente que da grandes patadas, o de esquadron de soldados. [tla:lli-dupl-tecui:ni-tza- liz] 71m2-21. tlaltetecuitzaliztli. ruydo de gente armada. [tla:lli-dupl-tecui:ni- tza-liz] 71m1-19. tlaltetecuitzaliztli. ruydo de gente armada. [tla:lli-dupl-tecui:ni- tza-liz] 55m-17. tlatetecuitza. they beat, they make noise. [p51-dupl-tecui:ni-tza] FC. tlatetecuitzauhya. asperous place. [tla6-dupl-tecui:ni-tza-l2-v03b- prt1-ya:n +del.n] FC. tlatetecuitzoani. one who raises a clatter or din. [p51-dupl-tecui:ni- tza-l2--ni1] FC. tlatetecuitzoani. one who raises a clattering din. [p51-dupl-tecui:ni- tza-l2--ni1] FC. tlatiticuitza. he makes a clatter. [p51-dupl-tecui:ni-tza +e>i] FC. tlatiticuitza. they beat, they make noise. [p51-dupl-tecui:ni-tza] FC. word.count: 43 * tza tei:ni *** quiteteitz. he chewed it. [p33-dupl-tei:ni-tza-prt1 +cord] FC. teteitza =nite. roer. [p11-p52-dupl-tei:ni-tza] 55m-17. teteitza =nitla=onitlateteitz. roer huesso o cosa semejante. [p11-p51- dupl-tei:ni-tza] 71m2-18. teteitza =nitla. cruxir algo entre los dientes. [p11-p51-dupl-tei:ni- tza] 71m1-6. teteitza =nitla. roer. [p11-p51-dupl-tei:ni-tza] 71m1-19. teteitzaliztli =tla. el acto de roer hueso, o cosa semejante, o de quebrantar y hazer pedazos algun vaso de barro, o de vidrio. [p51- dupl-tei:ni-tza-liz] 71m2-23. teteitzaliztli =tla. roedura. [p51-dupl-tei:ni-tza-liz] 71m1-19. teteitzaliztli =tla. roedura. [p51-dupl-tei:ni-tza-liz] 55m-17. tlateteitza. he breaks something up. [p51-dupl-tei:ni-tza] FC. word.count: 9 * tza tepi:ni *** quicuatitipitza. she smashes her head. [p33-cua:itl-dupl-tepi:ni-tza] FC. quixtitipitza. . [p33-i:xtli-dupl-tepi:ni-tza] FC. word.count: 2 * tza ti:ni *** nacaztititza =nite=onitenacaztititz. atronar a otro con bozes o con gran ruido y estruendo. [p11-p52-nacaztli-dupl-ti:ni-tza] 71m2-11. nacaztititza =nite. atronar a otro con ruido. [p11-p52-nacaztli-dupl- ti:ni-tza] 55m-1. nacaztititza =nite. atronar a otro con algun estruendo o ruydo. [p11- p52-nacaztli-dupl-ti:ni-tza] 71m1-3. nacaztititza =no=ononacaztititzac. . [poss-nacaztli dupl-ti:ni-tza] 71m2-11. nacaztititzani =te. atronador tal. [p52-nacaztli-dupl-ti:ni-tza-ni1] 71m1-3. nacaztititztli =tla. atronado assi. [p51-nacaztli-dupl-ti:ni-tza-l2] 55m-1. nacaztititztli =tla. atronado assi. [p51-nacaztli-dupl-ti:ni-tza-l2] 71m1-3. nacaztititztli =tla. atronado, o atonito de algun trueno o estruendo grande. [p51-nacaztli-dupl-ti:ni-tza-l2] 71m2-22. tititza =nino=oninotititz. tener puxo de vientre. [p11-p54-dupl-ti:ni- tza] 71m2-12. tititza =nino=oninotititz. tener puxo o desperezarse y estirarse, bocezando. [p11-p54-dupl-ti:ni-tza] 71m2-19. tititza =nino. puxo tener. [p11-p54-dupl-ti:ni-tza] 71m1-18. tititza =no nacaz. atronarse me los oydos. [poss-nacaztli dupl-ti:ni- tza] 71m1-3. tititzaliztli =ne. puxo de vientre. [p53-dupl-ti:ni-tza-liz] 71m1-18. tititzaliztli =ne. puxo de vientre. [p53-dupl-ti:ni-tza-liz] 55m-16. tititzaliztli =ne. puxo de vientre. [p53-dupl-ti:ni-tza-liz] 71m2-12. word.count: 15 * tza tlapa:ni *** quitlatlapatza. they break it up. [p33-dupl-tlapa:ni-tza] FC. tlatlapatza =nitla=onitlatlatlapatz. despedazar, o quebrantar algo en muchas partes. [p11-p51-dupl-tlapa:ni-tza] 71m2-24. tlatlapatza =nitla. desmenuzar pan o cosa assi. [p11-p51-dupl-tlapa:ni- tza] 55m-5. tlatlapatza =nitla. desmenuzar pan o cosa semejante. [p11-p51-dupl- tlapa:ni-tza] 71m1-7. tlatlapatza =nitla. despedazar pan. [p11-p51-dupl-tlapa:ni-tza] 71m1- 8. tlatlapatza =nitla. hazerse pedazos alguna cosa. [p11-p51-dupl- tlapa:ni-tza] 71m1-12. tlatlapatzaliztli =tla. desmenuzamiento. [p51-dupl-tlapa:ni-tza-liz] 55m-5. tlatlapatzaliztli =tla. despedazamiento o desmenuzamiento de algo. [p51-dupl-tlapa:ni-tza-liz] 71m2-24. tlatlapatzaliztli =tla. desmenuzamiento tal. [p51-dupl-tlapa:ni-tza- liz] 71m1-7. tlatlapatzaloni. something which can be broken up. [dupl-tlapa:ni-tza- lo:1-ni1] FC. tlatlapatzani =tla. desmenuzador. [p51-dupl-tlapa:ni-tza-ni1] 71m1-7. tlatlapatztli =tla. cosa despedazada o desmenuzada. [p51-dupl-tlapa:ni- tza-l2] 71m2-24. tlatlapatztli =tla. desmenuzado. [p51-dupl-tlapa:ni-tza-l2] 55m-5. tlatlatlapatztli. desmenuzado assi. [p51-dupl-tlapa:ni-tza-l2] 71m1- 7. word.count: 14 * tza tlatzi:ni *** matlatlatza =nino=oninomatlatlatzac. dar palmadas de plazer. [p11-p54- ma:itl-dupl-tlatzi:ni-tza] 71m2-9. matlatlatza =nino. palmadas dar con las manos. [p11-p54-ma:itl-dupl- tlatzi:ni-tza] 71m1-16. motzictlatlatza. she clacks chicle. [p54-tzictli-dupl-tlatzi:ni-tza] FC. motzictlatlatza. they click chicle. [p54-tzictli-dupl-tlatzi:ni-tza +prob] FC. quitlatlatztzatinemi. she goes about snapping it [i.e., chewing gum]. [p33-dupl-tlatzi:ni-tza-ti1-nemi aux01] FC. word.count: 5 * tza topo:ni *** quitotopotz. he gnawed it. [p33-dupl-topo:ni-tza-prt1 +cord] FC. quitotopotza. it gnaws it. [p33-dupl-topo:ni-tza +cord] FC. quitototopotzaya. they toasted it. [p33-dupl-dupl-topo:ni-tza-ya3] FC. tla[i]xcaltotopochtli. biscuit. [p51-ixca-l1-dupl-topo:ni-tza-l2 +n>ch] FC. tla[i]xcaltotopochtli. toasted, dried tortilla. [p51-ixca-l1-dupl- topo:ni-tza-l2 +n>ch] FC. tla[i]xcaltotopochtli. toasted tortilla. [p51-ixca-l1-dupl-topo:ni-tza- l2 +n>ch] FC. tlatotopotza. he gnaws, he frays. [p51-dupl-topo:ni-tza +cord] FC. tlatotopotza. it gnaws. [p51-dupl-topo:ni-tza] FC. tlatotopotzani. gnawer. [p51-dupl-topo:ni-tza-ni1] FC. totopochhuatza =nitla. tostar. [p11-p51-dupl-topo:ni-l2-hua:qui-tza +n>ch] 71m1-20. totopochhuatza =nitla. tostar. [p11-p51-dupl-topo:ni-l2-hua:qui-tza +n>ch] 55m-19. totopochhuatzalli =tla. cosa muy tostada asi como reuanadas de pan, tortillas o cosa assi. [p51-dupl-topo:ni-l2-hua:qui-tza-l1 +n>ch] 71m2-24. totopochhuatzalli =tla. tostada cosa. [p51-dupl-topo:ni-l2-hua:qui-tza- l1 +n>ch] 71m1-20. totopochhuatzalli =tla. tostada cosa. [p51-dupl-topo:ni-l2-hua:qui-tza- l1 +n>ch] 55m-19. totopotza =nitla=onitlatotopotz. roer, o tostar algo. [p11-p51-dupl- topo:ni-tza] 71m2-26. totopotza =nitla. roer. [p11-p51-dupl-topo:ni-tza] 71m1-19. totopotza =nitla. roer. [p11-p51-dupl-topo:ni-tza] 55m-17. totopotzaliztli =tla. el acto de comer cosas muy tostadas, o bizcochadas, o de roer huessos. [p51-dupl-topo:ni-tza-liz] 71m2- 24. totopotzaliztli =tla. roedura. [p51-dupl-topo:ni-tza-liz] 71m1-19. totopotzaliztli =tla. roedura. [p51-dupl-topo:ni-tza-liz] 55m-17. totopotzani =tla. el que come cosas muy tostadas que cruxen entre los dientes. [p51-dupl-topo:ni-tza-ni1] 71m2-24. word.count: 22 * tza toto:ca *** ommotototza. . [o:n-p54-toto:ca-tza] FC. quintototza. they force them to go. [p43-toto:ca-tza] FC. quitototza. they push it forward. [p33-toto:ca-tza] FC. quitototzaya. they hurried him. [p33-toto:ca-tza-ya3] FC. quitototzaya. they pushed it forward. [p33-toto:ca-tza-ya3] FC. quitototztihuetzi. . [p33-toto:ca-tza-prt1-ti1-huetzi aux03] FC. quitototztiquiza. . [p33-toto:ca-tza-prt1-ti1-qui:za aux07] FC. tetototzalo. there is chasing of people. [p52-toto:ca-tza-lo:2] FC. tiquitototztihuetziz. . [p12-p33-toto:ca-tza-ti1-huetzi-z aux03] FC. totochilia =nech. doler en alguna parte del cuerpo. [p31-toto:ca-tza- ben +tz>ch .bbbb] 55m-6. totochilia =nech. doler en alguna parte del cuerpo. [p31-toto:ca-tza- ben +tz>ch .bbbb] 71m1-8. totochilia =nitetla=onitetlatotochili. acuciar, o dar priessa a otros. [p11-p52-p51-toto:ca-tza-ben +tz>ch +mis_analysis.4] 71m2-24. totochilia =nitetla=onitetlatotochili. dar mucha priessa a otros. [p11- p52-p51-toto:ca-tza-ben +tz>ch] 71m2-26. totochilia =nitetla. priesa dar, para que hagan mal a alguno. [p11-p52- p51-toto:ca-tza-ben +tz>ch +mis_analysis.4a] 71m1-17. totochilia =nitetla. priesa dar para que hagan mal a alguno. [p11-p52- p51-toto:ca-tza-ben +tz>ch +mis_analysis.4] 55m-16. totochilihqui =qui. doliente assi. [p33-toto:ca-tza-ben-prt1-c2 +tz>ch .bbbb] 55m-6. totochilihqui =qui. doliente assi. [p33-toto:ca-tza-ben-prt1-c2 +tz>ch .bbbb] 71m1-8. totochililiztli =te. dolencia assi. [p52-toto:ca-tza-ben-liz +tz>ch +no.haplo .bbbb] 55m-6. totochililiztli =te. dolencia tal. [p52-toto:ca-tza-ben-liz +tz>ch +no.haplo .bbbb] 71m1-8. totochililiztli =tetla. disfauor. [p52-p51-toto:ca-tza-ben-liz +tz>ch +no.haplo] 55m-6. totochiliztli =tetla. disfauor. [p52-p51-toto:ca-tza-ben=0-liz +tz>ch +haplo] 71m1-8. totochiliztli =tetla. priesa que se da a otro, o disfauor. [p52-p51- toto:ca-tza-ben=0-liz +tz>ch +haplo] 71m2-19. tototza =nic=onictototz. adelantar, o aguijar el relox. [p11-p33- toto:ca-tza] 71m2-26. tototza =nic. adelantar el relox que anda trasero y tardio. [p11-p33- toto:ca-tza] 71m1-1. tototza =nichual. ligeramente traer algo. [p11-p33-hua:l-toto:ca-tza +mis_analysis.1] 71m1-14. tototza =nichual. ligeramente traer algo. [p11-p33-hua:l-toto:ca-tza +mis_analysis.1] 55m-12. tototza =nite=onitetototz. aguijar y dar priessa al que camina, o empeorar el medico al enfermo. [p11-p52-toto:ca-tza] 71m2-26. tototza =nite. aguijar a otro. [p11-p52-toto:ca-tza] 55m-00. tototza =nite. aguijar a otro. [p11-p52-toto:ca-tza] 71m1-1. tototza =nite. correr hazer a otro. [p11-p52-toto:ca-tza] 55m-3. tototza =nite. correr hazer a otro. [p11-p52-toto:ca-tza] 71m1-5. tototza =nite. dar priesa. [p11-p52-toto:ca-tza] 71m1-6. tototza =nite. enconar la llaga o cosa semejante. [p11-p52-toto:ca- tza] 55m-7. tototza =nite. enconar la llaga o cosa semejante. [p11-p52-toto:ca- tza] 71m1-9. tototza =nite. priesa dar a alguno,paraque haga algo,o paraque de lo que le piden. [p11-p52-toto:ca-tza] 71m1-17. tototza =nite. priesa dar. [p11-p52-toto:ca-tza] 55m-16. tototza =nitla=onitlatototz. empeorar, o dar priessa a otra qualquier cosa. [p11-p51-toto:ca-tza] 71m2-26. tototza =nitla. acuciar o dar priessa. [p11-p51-toto:ca-tza] 71m1-1. tototza =nitla. empeorar. [p11-p51-toto:ca-tza] 55m-7. tototza =nitla. empeorar. [p11-p51-toto:ca-tza] 71m1-9. tototzaliztli =te. el acto de dar priessa a otros assi. [p52-toto:ca- tza-liz] 71m2-19. tototzaliztli =te. empeoramiento. [p52-toto:ca-tza-liz] 55m-7. tototzaliztli =te. empeoramiento. [p52-toto:ca-tza-liz] 71m1-9. tototzaliztli =te. enconamiento assi. [p52-toto:ca-tza-liz] 55m-7. tototzaliztli =te. enconamiento assi. [p52-toto:ca-tza-liz] 71m1-9. tototzaliztli =tetla. priesa que se da a otro, o disfauor o el acto de empeorar algo a otro. [p52-p51-toto:ca-tza-liz] 71m2-19. tototzaliztli =te. ynstancia priessa. [p52-toto:ca-tza-liz] 71m1-13. tototzaliztli =te. ynstancia priessa. [p52-toto:ca-tza-liz] 55m-12. tototzalli =tla. aguijada cosa. [p51-toto:ca-tza-l1] 55m-00. tototzalli =tla. aguijada cosa. [p51-toto:ca-tza-l1] 71m1-1. tototzalli =tla. al que dan priessa para que haga algo. [p51-toto:ca- tza-l1] 71m2-24. tototzalli =tla. enconada llaga. [p51-toto:ca-tza-l1] 55m-7. tototzalli =tla. enconada llaga. [p51-toto:ca-tza-l1] 71m1-9. tototzani =te. aguijador. [p52-toto:ca-tza-ni1] 55m-00. tototzani =te. aguijador. [p52-toto:ca-tza-ni1] 71m1-1. tototzani =te. solicitador, o el que aguija y da priessa aotros. [p52- toto:ca-tza-ni1] 71m2-19. tototztli =tla. aguijada cosa. [p51-toto:ca-tza-l2] 55m-00. tototztli =tla. aguijada cosa. [p51-toto:ca-tza-l2] 71m1-1. tototztli =tla. al que dan priessa para que haga algo. [p51-toto:ca- tza-l2] 71m2-24. tototztli =tla. empeorado. [p51-toto:ca-tza-l2] 55m-7. tototztli =tla. empeorado. [p51-toto:ca-tza-l2] 71m1-9. word.count: 62 * tza tzapi:ni *** cahuallotzatzapitzaliztli. espolada. [++cahuallo-dupl-tzapi:ni-tza-liz +spanish] 55m-9. cahuallotzatzapitzaliztli. espolada. [++cahuallo-dupl-tzapi:ni-tza-liz +spanish] 71m1-11. tepoztetzatzapitzaloni. aguijon de hierro o espuela. [tepoztli-p52- dupl-tzapi:ni-tza-lo:2-ni1] 55m-00. tepoztetzatzapitzaloni. aguijon de hierro o espuela. [tepoztli-p52- dupl-tzapi:ni-tza-lo:2-ni1] 71m1-1. tepoztetzatzapitzaloni. espuela, o aguijon. [tepoztli-p52-dupl- tzapi:ni-tza-lo:2-ni1] 71m2-18. tzatzapitza =nitla=onitlatzatzapitz. punzar, picar o dar de espoladas al cauallo. [p11-p51-dupl-tzapi:ni-tza] 71m2-26. tzatzapitza =nitla. espolear herir conella. [p11-p51-dupl-tzapi:ni- tza] 55m-9. tzatzapitza =nitla. espolear herir conella. [p11-p51-dupl-tzapi:ni- tza] 71m1-11. tzatzapitzaliztli =tla. espolada. [p51-dupl-tzapi:ni-tza-liz] 55m-9. tzatzapitzaliztli =tla. espoladas, punzadas o aguijones. [p51-dupl- tzapi:ni-tza-liz] 71m2-24. tzatzapitzaliztli =tla. espolada. [p51-dupl-tzapi:ni-tza-liz] 71m1- 11. word.count: 11 * tza tzicui:ni *** mo[i]ztacatzitzicuitz. it was spattered with white. [p54-iztatl-v01b- delya-ca:6-dupl-tzicui:ni-tza-prt1] FC. motexohtzitzicuitza. it is spattered with light blue. [p54-texohtli- dupl-tzicui:ni-tza] FC. motlapaltzitzicuitz. it was spattered with red color. [p54-p54-pa:3-l1- dupl-tzicui:ni-tza-prt1] FC. motlapaltzitzicuitza. it is spattered with color. [p54-p54-pa:3-l1- dupl-tzicui:ni-tza] FC. motzitzicuitz. it is spattered. [p54-dupl-tzicui:ni-tza-prt1] FC. motzitzicuitza. it is spattered. [p54-dupl-tzicui:ni-tza] FC. quimotzitzicuichilih. . [p33-p54-dupl-tzicui:ni-tza-ben-prt1] FC. quimotzitzicuichilih. it was spattered. [p33-p54-dupl-tzicui:ni-tza- ben-prt1 +tz>ch] FC. quitzitzicuitza. they spatter it. [p33-dupl-tzicui:ni-tza] FC. word.count: 11 * tza tzili:ni *** netlantzitzilitzalo. there is chattering of the teeth. [p53-tlantli- dupl-tzili:ni-tza-lo:2] FC. netlantzitzilitzalo. there is chattering of teeth. [p53-tlantli-dupl- tzili:ni-tza-lo:2] FC. quicuatzitzilitza. she bangs her head. [p33-cua:itl-dupl-tzili:ni-tza] FC. quitzitzilitza. she strikes it. [p33-dupl-tzili:ni-tza] FC. tlantzitzilitza =nino=oninotlantzitzilitz. dar tenzadas o cruxir los dientes de frio &c. [p11-p54-tlantli-dupl-tzili:ni-tza] 71m2-22. tlantzitzilitza =nino. cruxir los dientes de frio. [p11-p54-tlantli- dupl-tzili:ni-tza] 55m-4. tlantzitzilitza =nino. cruxir los dientes de frio. [p11-p54-tlantli- dupl-tzili:ni-tza] 71m1-6. tlantzitzilitza =nino. dar tenazadas de frio. [p11-p54-tlantli-dupl- tzili:ni-tza] 71m1-6. tlantzitzilitza =nino. temblar o cruxir los dientes. [p11-p54-tlantli- dupl-tzili:ni-tza] 71m1-20. tlantzitzilitzaliztli =ne. cruximiento assi. [p53-tlantli-dupl- tzili:ni-tza-liz] 55m-4. tlantzitzilitzaliztli =ne. ruydo de dientes rechinando. [p53-tlantli- dupl-tzili:ni-tza-liz] 71m1-19. tlantzitzilitzaliztli =ne. ruydo de dientes rechinando. [p53-tlantli- dupl-tzili:ni-tza-liz] 55m-17. tlantzitzilitzaliztli =ne. cruximiento de dientes, o tenazadas de dientes. [p53-tlantli-dupl-tzili:ni-tza-liz] 71m2-12. tlantzitzilitzaliztli =ne. cruximiento assi. [p53-tlantli-dupl- tzili:ni-tza-liz] 71m1-6. tzitzilitza =nitla=onitlatzitzilitz. repicar campanas. [p11-p51-dupl- tzili:ni-tza] 71m2-26. tzitzilitza =nitla. repicar campanas. [p11-p51-dupl-tzili:ni-tza] 71m1- 18. tzitzilitza =nitla. repicar con campana. [p11-p51-dupl-tzili:ni-tza] 55m-17. tzitzilitzaliztli =tla. repique de campanas. [p51-dupl-tzili:ni-tza- liz] 71m1-18. tzitzilitzaliztli =tla. repique assi. [p51-dupl-tzili:ni-tza-liz] 55m- 17. tzitzilitzaliztli =tla. repique de campana, o el acto de repicar campanas. [p51-dupl-tzili:ni-tza-liz] 71m2-24. tzitzilitzani =tla. repicador de campanas. [p51-dupl-tzili:ni-tza-ni1] 71m2-24. word.count: 21 * tza tzitzica *** tzitzitza =nitla=onitlatzitzitzitz. . [p11-p51-tzitzica-tza] 71m2-26. tzitzitza =nitla. embutir o recalcar. [p11-p51-tzitzica-tza] 55m-7. tzitzitza =nitla. embutir o recalar. [p11-p51-tzitzica-tza] 71m1-9. tzitzitztli =tla. cosa recalcada, apretada y tupida. [p51-tzitzica-tza- l2] 71m2-24. tzitzitztli =tla. embutido. [p51-tzitzica-tza-l2] 55m-7. tzitzitztli =tla. embutido. [p51-tzitzica-tza-l2] 71m1-9. word.count: 6 * tza tzomo:ni *** quitetetzomotza. . [tzomo:ni-tza +bakf] FC. quitzomotza. they break it. [p33-tzomo:ni-tza +bakf] FC. tetlatetetzomochilia. . [tzomo:ni-tza-ben +bakf] FC. word.count: 3 * tza tzopi:ni *** tetzotzopitza. they stab people. [p52-dupl-tzopi:ni-tza] FC. tetzotzopitzalo. there is repeated spearing of people. [p52-dupl- tzopi:ni-tza-lo:2] FC. tlatzotzopitza. he provides holes (i.e., for plants). [p51-dupl- tzopi:ni-tza] FC. word.count: 3 * tza tzopo:ni *** motentzotzopotzaz. its lips will be perforated. [p54-te:ntli-dupl- tzopo:ni-tza-z] FC. motzotzopotza. it is pricked repeatedly. [p54-dupl-tzopo:ni-tza] FC. tetzotzopotza. it pricks people. [p52-dupl-tzopo:ni-tza] FC. tlatzotzopotza. he provides holes (i.e., for plants). [p51-dupl- tzopo:ni-tza] FC. tlatzotzopotztinemi. . [p51-dupl-tzopo:ni-tza-prt1-ti1-nemi aux01] FC. tlatzotzopotztinemi. they go along stabbing. [p51-dupl-tzopo:ni-tza- prt1-ti1-nemi aux01] FC. word.count: 7 * tza xahua:ni *** tlaxaxahuatza. it ejects. [p51-dupl-xahua:ni-tza] FC. xaxahuatza =nitla. ruido hazer el agua o los meados del cauallo quando mea, o cosa assi. [p11-p51-dupl-xahua:ni-tza] 55m-17. xaxahuatza =nitla. ruydo hazer el agua o los meados del cauallo^quando mea o cosa assi. [p11-p51-dupl-xahua:ni-tza] 71m1-19. word.count: 3 * tza xama:ni *** nicxaxamatza. I make it crunch. [p11-p33-dupl-xama:ni-tza] FC. quinxaxamatztihuia. they went crushing them to pieces. [p43-dupl- xama:ni-tza-prt1-ti1-yauh2-ya3 aux14b] FC. teihtixaxamatz. it shattered one's stomach. [p52-ihtitl-dupl-xama:ni- tza-prt1] FC. teihtixaxamatza. it shatters one's stomach. [p52-ihtitl-dupl-xama:ni- tza] FC. texaxamatza. she crushes people. [p52-dupl-xama:ni-tza] FC. texaxamatzaz. (may) he disunite people. [p52-dupl-xama:ni-tza-z] FC. tlaxaxamatza. he breaks something up. [p51-dupl-xama:ni-tza] FC. tlaxaxamatztihuetzi. it falls shattered to pieces. [p51-xama:ni-tza- prt1-ti1-huetzi aux03] FC. xaxamatza =nite=onitexaxamatz. hazer pedazos alos enemigos, haziendo gran estrago enellos. [p11-p52-dupl-xama:ni-tza] 71m2-27. xontexaxamatza. scatter people!. [p6-o:n-p52-dupl-xama:ni-tza] FC. word.count: 10 * tza zolo:ni *** quizolotza. he sucks it in. [p33-zolo:ni-tza +bakf] FC. zolotza =nitla=onitlazolotz. soruer algo. [p11-p51-zolo:ni-tza +bakf] 71m2-4. zolotza =nitla. soruer. [p11-p51-zolo:ni-tza +bakf] 71m1-19. zolotza =nitla. soruer. [p11-p51-zolo:ni-tza +bakf] 55m-18. zozolotza =nitla=onitlazozolotz. hazer ruido el chorro de agua que cae sobre otra agua. [p11-p51-dupl-zolo:ni-tza] 71m2-4. zozolotza =nitla. ruydo hazer el agua o los meados del cauallo^quando mea o cosa assi. [p11-p51-dupl-zolo:ni-tza] 71m1-19. word.count: 6 Quoting "John Sullivan, Ph.D." : > Piyali listeros, > Ce tlahtlaniliztli. I have a question about sets of words like: > tlapa:ni, "to split"; tlapa:na, "to split s.t."; tlatlapaca, "to > split into many pieces", tlatlapatza, "to split s.t. into many > pieces". I understand that tlapa:na is a causative derivation of > tlapa:ni. And the grammars say that tlatlapaca is a reduplicated > form of tlapa:ni, and that tlatlapatza is a reduplicated form of > tlapa:na. What I want to know is if tlatlapatza could also be > considered a causative derivation of tlatlapaca. After all, we do > have hua:qui, "to dry" and its causative derivation hua:tza, "to dry > s.t."; popo:ca, "to smoke" / popo:tza, "to smoke s.t."; ti:tica, "to > throb (a wound) / ti:titza, "to strain while making an effort", none > of which have underlying thematic verbs forms in -ni or -hui. And I > think all verbs ending in - tza are transitive (pi:tza, po:tza). > John > > John Sullivan, Ph.D. > Professor of Nahua language and culture > Universidad Autónoma de Zacatecas > Zacatecas Institute of Teaching and Research in Ethnology > Tacuba 152, int. 43 > Centro Histórico > Zacatecas, Zac. 98000 > Mexico > Work: +52 (492) 925-3415 > Fax: +1 (858) 724-3030 (U.S.A.) > Home: +52 (492) 768-6048 > Mobile: +52 1 (492) 103-0195 > idiez at me.com > www.macehualli.org > > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From brokaw at buffalo.edu Mon Nov 30 20:19:31 2009 From: brokaw at buffalo.edu (Galen Brokaw) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 15:19:31 -0500 Subject: nouns and verbs in Nahuatl In-Reply-To: <20091120213018.lmpy3a2tnos4wgs8@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: > Regarding #2, I'd like to get around to discussing your "(just as > 'real' nouns do)" sometime. Are there real nouns in Nahuatl? I'm > reminded of Father Baraga's statement in his _The Theoretical and > Practical Grammar of the Otchipwe Language": > > "In closing let it be allowed that the Indian language is perfect in > its own way, and has many beauties not to be found in our modern > languages; for instance, the verb in the Indian idiom, is the supreme > chief of the language; it draws into its magical circle all the other > parts of speech, and makes them act, move, suffer, and even exist in > the manner, and in such situations as is pleasing to it. In truth a > learned philologist likened the verb of the Indian language to Atlas > that carries the world on its shoulders. If a language can be compared > to a world, this comparison appears to us very just; for the verb can > carry it entirely in its bosom." > > Blair Rudes, the late Iroquoianist, once told me that there was a > Iroquoian language (Tuscarora, I believe, but I can't remember) that > had only around 7 bona fide nouns; everything else that we would > consider nouns were actually verbs. > > Nahuatl seems to have this same characteristic. I think Andrews talks > about this somewhere, but I don't know where. But when we say, for > example, > 'cuauhtli' (cua:uhtli) 'eagle', what we are dealing with here is a verb > phrase meaning 'it is an/the eagle'. > Hi Michael, Sorry for the delayed response. I just wanted to comment briefly on this issue of verbs versus nouns in Nahuatl. I don't know where Andrews says this, but his grammar makes a very clear distinction between nouns and verbs. A number of times I've heard repeated this idea that in Nahuatl nouns are actually verbs or something to that effect. I don't know about Tuscarora, but I think that in the case of Nahuatl, this is a misconception based on a failure to distinguish between formal grammar and pragmatics. Although it is true that the expression "cuauhtli" can mean "it is an eagle" or "there is an eagle," this doesn't mean that it is a verb. Nouns in English can do exactly the same thing. If someone yells "bomb!," everyone interprets that as meaning "there is a bomb" or "it is a bomb." But this doesn't mean that "bomb" is a verb. It is important here to draw a distinction between formal categories of grammar and pragmatics. From a formal perspective, "cuauhtli" is a real noun, because it behaves like other nouns and not like verbs in Nahuatl. >>From a pragmatic perspective, it can convey the the idea that is formally articulated as "it is an eagle" or "there is an eagle," but it does not do so through its form. The fact that the pragmatic use of an isolated word can convey a broader meaning that can be formally articulated using a complete sentence says nothing about the formal category of that word, which is determined strictly on the basis of its formal properties. Galen _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From karttu at nantucket.net Mon Nov 30 21:01:05 2009 From: karttu at nantucket.net (Frances Karttunen) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 16:01:05 -0500 Subject: Nuns and verbs Message-ID: I would say that nouns in Nahuatl are those entities that take engage with nominal morphology and verbs are the ones that engage with verbal morphology. There's probably a bit of overlap. Andrews makes his every-word-a-sentence claim by resorting to "zero- morphemes" and not just a little bit but by a great whopping lot. There are plenty of what Carochi called "adverbs" in Nahuatl, with all sorts of functions other than verbal or nominal. On the other hand, I am fairly convinced that in older Nahuatl there was no distinct grammatical category of adjective. That probably changed through contact with Spanish. Not that there has been obvious introduction of agreement between modifier and modified, but some deverbal forms now seem to act like predicate adjectives in a way they didn't originally. Fran _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From lahunik.62 at skynet.be Sun Nov 1 21:56:12 2009 From: lahunik.62 at skynet.be (Baert Georges) Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2009 22:56:12 +0100 Subject: Colors Message-ID: Chichiltic or Chihchiltic= red. Chilehuatic= red. Chilpahtic= clear red. Chilpatzcaltic= vivid red. Aztapiltic= white clear. Iztac= white. Iztalehuac or iztalectic= mat white. Teztic= white. Tliltic= black Tlilayohtic= very dark green. Tlilli= black, color of soot. Pahpaltic= dark black. Coztic= yellow. Cozauhqui= gold yellow. Cozyayactic= dark yellow. Nextic= color of ashes. Matlaltic= dark bleu. Quilpaltic= cupper green (vert-de-gris). Quilyayatic= dark green. Quiquilyic= green of leafs. Xoxoctic or xoxohuic or xoxouhqui= green. Xopalectic or xopalehuac= clear green. Yapalli or Iyapalli= dark green. Yayauhcaquiltihcectic= dark green. Cahcamoliuhqui= violet Camiltic or Camilhuiltic or camilloh= brown. Camohpalpoyahuac= brown. Xiuhtic= turquoise. Texohcaltic= bleu like smoke. Texohcaltic= clear bleu. Texocamiltic= dark bleu. Texohpoyahuac= clear bleu. Texohtli or texohtic or texohyoh= clear bleu. Tlahuizcaltic= pink. Tlaztalehualli= pink Ixcuappachtic= clear violet. Pinehuac or pinectic= bleu lilla Lahun ik 62 Baert Georges Flanders Fields -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From lahunik.62 at skynet.be Sun Nov 1 22:28:18 2009 From: lahunik.62 at skynet.be (Baert Georges) Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2009 23:28:18 +0100 Subject: Camohpaltic Message-ID: Camohpaltic: * Dark brown; * R.Sim?on 56, camohpalli, brown, dark violet. * Molina II,12r, color morado oscuro. * Form on paltic, morp.incorp., camoh-tli. Cahmo (ca-ahmo): it is not at all (Sah.6,129) (Launey). * Paltic, form on palli: colored. * So camohpaltic could be translated as, not colored at all, because of the very dark color. Lahun Ik 62 Baert Georges Flanders Fields -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From dustintyrone at yahoo.com Mon Nov 2 14:29:57 2009 From: dustintyrone at yahoo.com (Dustin De Felice) Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 06:29:57 -0800 Subject: Research Participant Request Message-ID: Good day Listeros, Please respond to me off list at dustintyrone at yahoo.com. Thank you. My name is Dustin De Felice and I am a student researcher (currently in my 2nd year of doctoral study). I am researching the experiences people have had while studying the Nahuatl language and I am looking for study participants. I would be interested in hearing from individuals willing to discuss their experiences. These experiences could be from a person who just started learning Nahuatl or from an individual with many years and formal classroom experience. I would like to hear from someone who might have casually started studying Nahuatl through the internet or someone who has attended an intensive program like the one offered by IDIEZ in Zacatecas. I am interested in hearing about your experiences, your motivations (or why you no longer actively study the language), and your suggestions (on materials used, resources found, etc.). There are two ways to participate in the study. First, you can agree to a brief recorded 10-20 minute interview that can be conducted using text-based chat or voice-based software (I can call you as well). Second, you can fill out a set of questions that can be completed and returned at your convenience by email. As a new researcher interested in the Nahuatl language, I would very much appreciate your participation in my study. I would also appreciate you forwarding this information to other individuals that might be interested in participating. I will share my findings with this listserv in a few months as I near completion of the study. Thank you in advance, Dustin De Felice, Student Researcher Second Language Acquisition and Instructional Technology (SLA/IT) University of South Florida (USF), Tampa, FL, USA. dustintyrone at yahoo.com Please respond to me off list at dustintyrone at yahoo.com. Thank you. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From idiez at me.com Mon Nov 2 11:48:15 2009 From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan, Ph.D.) Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 05:48:15 -0600 Subject: Camohpaltic In-Reply-To: <9D38AF1F5A734F2AB9FF54C1D8A3C505@baert> Message-ID: Baert, "Camohtli" is the purple sweet potato, and "camohtic" is the color purple in Huastecan Nahuatl. "Cahmo (ca ahmo)" cannot be used as the nucleus of a noun, and even if it could, the "h" in "camohpaltic" is not in the same place as the "h" in "cahmo" John On Nov 1, 2009, at 4:28 PM, Baert Georges wrote: > Camohpaltic: > ? Dark brown; > ? R.Sim?on 56, camohpalli, brown, dark violet. > ? Molina II,12r, color morado oscuro. > ? Form on paltic, morp.incorp., camoh-tli. > Cahmo (ca-ahmo): it is not at all (Sah.6,129) (Launey). > ? Paltic, form on palli: colored. > ? So camohpaltic could be translated as, not colored at all, > because of the very dark color. > Lahun Ik 62 > Baert Georges > Flanders Fields > > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Mon Nov 2 16:48:13 2009 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 11:48:13 -0500 Subject: Camohpaltic In-Reply-To: <9D38AF1F5A734F2AB9FF54C1D8A3C505@baert> Message-ID: Quoting Baert Georges : > Camohpaltic: > > > * So camohpaltic could be translated as, not colored at all, because of > the very dark color. This doesn't work grammatically. Noun stems precede -paltic, not verbs. Michael > > Lahun Ik 62 > > Baert Georges > > Flanders Fields > > > > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Mon Nov 2 16:53:22 2009 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 11:53:22 -0500 Subject: Camohpaltic In-Reply-To: <19621A2C-A8E4-476E-B6EA-2B78581C12F1@me.com> Message-ID: Quoting "John Sullivan, Ph.D." : > Baert, > "Camohtli" is the purple sweet potato, and "camohtic" is the color > purple in Huastecan Nahuatl. > "Cahmo (ca ahmo)" cannot be used as the nucleus of a noun, and even > if it could, the "h" in "camohpaltic" is not in the same place as the > "h" in "cahmo" > John John, the other night when Susana wrote me asking about "camopaltic" and asked, "What is the cam-", I thought about camohtli 'sweet potato'. But I dismissed it, because around here sweet potatoes are orange. Consequently, I had no idea what the "cam-" could be. Thanks for the lesson in biodiversity. :-) Michael On Nov 1, 2009, at 4:28 PM, Baert Georges wrote: > >> Camohpaltic: >> ? Dark brown; >> ? R.Sim?on 56, camohpalli, brown, dark violet. >> ? Molina II,12r, color morado oscuro. >> ? Form on paltic, morp.incorp., camoh-tli. >> Cahmo (ca-ahmo): it is not at all (Sah.6,129) (Launey). >> ? Paltic, form on palli: colored. >> ? So camohpaltic could be translated as, not colored at all, >> because of the very dark color. >> Lahun Ik 62 >> Baert Georges >> Flanders Fields >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Nahuatl mailing list >> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org >> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Mon Nov 2 19:23:27 2009 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 14:23:27 -0500 Subject: Colors In-Reply-To: <20C18E8CB875461C95EA2AE97D121915@baert> Message-ID: Baert Georges: Thank you for the list of colors not readily available. What are your sources for the lesser known ones such as "lilac"? The Florentine Codex, Book 11, has a chapter on colors with some interesting ones in it. Michael Quoting Baert Georges : > Chichiltic or Chihchiltic= red. > > Chilehuatic= red. > > Chilpahtic= clear red. > > Chilpatzcaltic= vivid red. > > Aztapiltic= white clear. > > Iztac= white. > > Iztalehuac or iztalectic= mat white. > > Teztic= white. > > Tliltic= black > > Tlilayohtic= very dark green. > > Tlilli= black, color of soot. > > Pahpaltic= dark black. > > Coztic= yellow. > > Cozauhqui= gold yellow. > > Cozyayactic= dark yellow. > > Nextic= color of ashes. > > Matlaltic= dark bleu. > > Quilpaltic= cupper green (vert-de-gris). > > Quilyayatic= dark green. > > Quiquilyic= green of leafs. > > Xoxoctic or xoxohuic or xoxouhqui= green. > > Xopalectic or xopalehuac= clear green. > > Yapalli or Iyapalli= dark green. > > Yayauhcaquiltihcectic= dark green. > > Cahcamoliuhqui= violet > > Camiltic or Camilhuiltic or camilloh= brown. > > Camohpalpoyahuac= brown. > > Xiuhtic= turquoise. > > Texohcaltic= bleu like smoke. > > Texohcaltic= clear bleu. > > Texocamiltic= dark bleu. > > Texohpoyahuac= clear bleu. > > Texohtli or texohtic or texohyoh= clear bleu. > > Tlahuizcaltic= pink. > > Tlaztalehualli= pink > > Ixcuappachtic= clear violet. > > Pinehuac or pinectic= bleu lilla > > > > Lahun ik 62 > > Baert Georges > > Flanders Fields > > > > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From susana at losrancheros.org Wed Nov 4 15:54:10 2009 From: susana at losrancheros.org (Susana Moraleda) Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 16:54:10 +0100 Subject: colours Message-ID: Thank you so much to all for your enlightening comments on colours. I have compiled a worksheet with your views and I'd like to share it with you all. Please find it attached. Nuevamente muchas gracias Susana -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: colores.xls Type: application/vnd.ms-excel Size: 25088 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From idiez at mac.com Wed Nov 4 19:34:43 2009 From: idiez at mac.com (John Sullivan, Ph.D.) Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 13:34:43 -0600 Subject: Another Nahuatl instructional video Message-ID: Piyali, We have another instructional video up on youtube. You can locate it under its name, "Cualantli tlen ce teconeuh" John John Sullivan, Ph.D. Professor of Nahua language and culture Universidad Aut?noma de Zacatecas Zacatecas Institute of Teaching and Research in Ethnology Tacuba 152, int. 43 Centro Hist?rico Zacatecas, Zac. 98000 Mexico Work: +52 (492) 925-3415 Fax: +1 (858) 724-3030 (U.S.A.) Home: +52 (492) 768-6048 Mobile: +52 1 (492) 103-0195 idiez at me.com www.macehualli.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From micc2 at cox.net Thu Nov 5 00:29:21 2009 From: micc2 at cox.net (micc2) Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 16:29:21 -0800 Subject: colours In-Reply-To: <003d01ca5d67$0e812600$8de83697@susana> Message-ID: Here is one that I put together using my research with John Sullivan's students In La Huasteca, and the latest e-mail from Baert Georges Mario I live for reasoned, enlightened spirituality: "Tlacecelilli", tranquilidad, paz Mario E. Aguilar, PhD www.mexicayotl.net Susana Moraleda wrote: > Thank you so much to all for your enlightening comments on colours. I > have compiled a worksheet with your views and I'd like to share it > with you all. Please find it attached. > > Nuevamente muchas gracias > > Susana > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: ixnezcayotl-los colores.docx Type: application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.wordprocessingml.document Size: 26098 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From schwallr at potsdam.edu Thu Nov 5 01:57:54 2009 From: schwallr at potsdam.edu (John F. Schwaller) Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 20:57:54 -0500 Subject: Attachments Message-ID: Colleagues, Just a bit of housekeeping: The software which powers this list does NOT do a particularly good job with attachments. Please do not send them to the list. They frequently are stripped out or result in large files of unintelligible data. If you can, include the info as part of the post or point colleagues to a web address where the data may be located. I can, if requested, put it on nahuatl.org -- John F. Schwaller President, SUNY Potsdam 44 Pierrepont Ave. Potsdam, NY 13676 schwallr at potsdam.edu _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Thu Nov 5 17:05:11 2009 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 12:05:11 -0500 Subject: colours In-Reply-To: <4AF21C61.1020408@cox.net> Message-ID: This list is nice, Mario, but, one must beware, as it includes the erroneous grammatical analysis of "purple" that Georges offered the other day. It would be a sounder document without that confusing/confused part. Best, Michael Quoting micc2 : > Here is one that I put together using my research with John > Sullivan's students In La Huasteca, and the latest e-mail from Baert > Georges > > > > Mario > > I live for reasoned, enlightened spirituality: > > "Tlacecelilli", tranquilidad, paz > > > Mario E. Aguilar, PhD > www.mexicayotl.net > > > > > Susana Moraleda wrote: >> Thank you so much to all for your enlightening comments on colours. >> I have compiled a worksheet with your views and I'd like to share it >> with you all. Please find it attached. >> Nuevamente muchas gracias >> Susana >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Nahuatl mailing list >> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org >> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl >> > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mcdo0030 at umn.edu Thu Nov 5 19:18:42 2009 From: mcdo0030 at umn.edu (Kelly McDonough) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 13:18:42 -0600 Subject: convocatoria Message-ID: 4 de noviembre de 2009 Atenci?n: Especialistas, Acad?micos, Estudiantes e Interesados Estimados todos, Por medio de la presente les hacemos una cordial invitaci?n para participar en un congreso internacional organizado por NAISA (Asociaci?n de Estudios Ind?genas y Nativo-americanos www.naisa.org ). Victoriano de la Cruz (CIESAS D.F.) y Kelly McDonough (Universidad de Minnesota) pensamos proponer un panel dirigido a todo aquel interesado en la lengua y cultura n?huatl. NAISA es un organizaci?n interdisciplinaria creada en 2007, actualmente cuenta con 500 miembros. Los congresos realizados se han llevado a cabo en Universidad de Oklahoma en Mayo 2007, posteriormente, en Universidad de Georgia en abril de 2008 y por ?ltimo, en Universidad de Minnesota en mayo del 2009. El congreso tendr? lugar el d?a 21, 21 y 23 de Mayo de 2010 en la Universidad de Arizona en la Cd. de Tucson. El panel es: ?Lengua, cultura e historia n?huatl?. El objetivo del foro es crear una discusi?n acerca diversos trabajos relacionados con la lengua (cultura e historia) del n?huatl. Trabajos de cualquier disciplina o ?poca est?n bienvenidos. Esperamos pronto una sinopsis de una posible ponencia de no m?s de 150 palabras a m?s tardar el 15 de noviembre del mes en curso (tepoxteco3 at hotmail.com y mcdo0030 at umn.edu), para que sea revisado y, en su caso, aceptado. Cualquier duda o comentario estamos a sus ?rdenes, mil gracias y saludos cordiales. Victoriano de la Cruz CIESAS D.F. Tel?fono: 55 205 460 78 E-mail: tepoxteco3 at hotmail.com Kelly McDonough Universidad de Minnesota Twin Cities Departamento de estudios de espa?ol y portugu?s 612/624-5529 E-mail: mcdo0030 at umn.edu Kelly McDonough University of Minnesota - Twin Cities Department of Spanish & Portuguese Studies 612/624-5529 mcdo0030 at umn.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From lahunik.62 at skynet.be Thu Nov 5 21:12:29 2009 From: lahunik.62 at skynet.be (Baert Georges) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 22:12:29 +0100 Subject: Colors Message-ID: Camohpaltic, deep dark violet or purple. I want to offer my apologies if I had present a seemingly very confusing explanation of Camopaltic, the noun of a deep dark violet color. But let me quote the statements of Michel Launey in his Introduccion a la lengua Nahuatl, page 29, no7, about La particula ca, and the footnote no7: Senalemos desde ahora la desaparicion casi total de ca en el conjunto de dialectos modernos. Los lectores interesados sobre todo en la practica del Nahuatl moderne deberan acostunbrase a ya no utilizarlo. Pero este termino juega un papel fundamental en el Nahuatl classico. And page 30, no9. Interrogacion y negacion: Amo sirve tambien de negacion, amo (o ca ahmo = NO). If ca ahmo (or with the saltillo accent ca amo) means NO, and if paltic means COLORED, than there could be a possibility of negation. I know that the saltillo has changed of place, but is a contraction of the two syllables together, ca and ahmo, not possible? After all it is the saltillo which has changed of place and there is nothing wrong with ca-moh, CV-CVC (saltillo). Yes camohpaltic is a noun, but it could also be a sentence, because el Nahuatl is often a very confusing language. Lahun Ik 62 Baert Georges Flanders Fields -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From h.kammler at em.uni-frankfurt.de Thu Nov 5 21:54:49 2009 From: h.kammler at em.uni-frankfurt.de (Henry) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 22:54:49 +0100 Subject: Colors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > > /If ca ahmo (or with the //saltillo// accent ca amo) means NO, and if > paltic means COLORED, than there could be a possibility of negation. / > Its a matter of word classes. A'mo cannot combine in this form with other morphemes, its combinatorial version is a'- You might construct something like a'paltik (no idea whether this exists) but this doesn't necessarily mean "colorless". the root -pal- does not mean "color", it is related to wetness, (dark) clay and surfaces (rather with long vowel -p?l- ... I'd venture a connection to Proto UtoAztecan pa "water" and the suppletive Azetc form ?l for "water", like in ?ltep?tl) tlapal-li is a *derivation* with the narrower meaning "paint, dye" ?paltik [vowel length, no saltillo] means "moist, watery" "ca" is a particle that to my knowledge does not combine with other morphemes (that's why it is called a "particle"), "ca a'mo" is a complete phrase which cannot be incorporated into another word. Even though it is nice to be able break down words into monosyllabic elements -- and in many cases you can do that in Nahuatl --- we shouldn't hunt for them at any cost. The number of CVC combinations is limited, so we should happily accept the existence of bisyllabic roots for basic vocabulary that can't be broken down further. /kamo'/ looks perfect as a root to me. And camote tastes good. mel?wak wel?k... y?tl?n nitlahtowa, ma titlakw?k?n Henry _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Thu Nov 5 23:02:31 2009 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 18:02:31 -0500 Subject: Colors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Quoting Baert Georges : > Camohpaltic, deep dark violet or purple. > I want to offer my apologies if I had present a seemingly very confusing > explanation of Camopaltic, the noun of a deep dark violet color. > But let me quote the statements of Michel Launey in his Introduccion a la > lengua Nahuatl, page 29, no7, about La particula ca, and the footnote no7: > Senalemos desde ahora la desaparicion casi total de ca en el conjunto de > dialectos modernos. Los lectores interesados sobre todo en la practica del > Nahuatl moderne deberan acostunbrase a ya no utilizarlo. Pero este termino > juega un papel fundamental en el Nahuatl classico. > And page 30, no9. Interrogacion y negacion: Amo sirve tambien de negacion, amo (o ca ahmo = NO). > If ca ahmo (or with the saltillo accent ca amo) means NO, and if paltic > means COLORED, than there could be a possibility of negation. I know that > the saltillo has changed of place, but is a contraction of the two syllables > together, ca and ahmo, not possible? After all it is the saltillo which has > changed of place and there is nothing wrong with ca-moh, CV-CVC (saltillo). > Yes camohpaltic is a noun, but it could also be a sentence, because > el > Nahuatl is often a very confusing language. > > Lahun Ik 62 > > Baert Georges > > Flanders Fields > > > > Georges, Once you have been inside Nahuatl long enough, you may realize that it is outstandingly uniform, perhaps unmatched in that regard. During my first week studying Nahuatl Joe Campbell said to me, and I paraphrase, "Nahuatl looks like an engineer from Mercedes-Benz put it together." I may not remember his words exactly, but I know what he meant. Looking around Native America, or the world for that matter, there's nothing that compares, as far I have seen, with the uniformity and predictability of Nahuatl syntax. In this connection, by offering the corrections of your ideas concerning "camohpaltic," John Sullivan, Henry Kammler, and I are simply saying that they don't work according to any known understanding of Nahuatl syntax (or phonology). Best wishes in your study of the language. It's good to have you aboard. Michael _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From magnuspharao at gmail.com Tue Nov 10 18:16:45 2009 From: magnuspharao at gmail.com (Magnus Pharao Hansen) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 12:16:45 -0600 Subject: nahuatl colors Message-ID: Hi Listeros Just wanted to chip in on the color topic, albeit a little belatedly. I have worked with color terminology studies in the past and done a small pilot survey in Hueyapan. I thought it would be worth it to mention that in fact the most interesting thing about Nahuatlo colourterminology is that according to the criteria of Paul Kay and Brent Berlin in their "Basic Color Terms" Nahuatl could be one of the only languages in the world *not *to have any true color terms! According to Berlin and Kay all languages have between two and eleven basic color terms, in a predictable order, i.e. if it has three it has black, white and red, if it has five it has those three plus yellow and either green or blue etc. What's interesting is that among the criteria is that a basic color term is not derived from anyother word - the term must be exclusively related to color. That means that e.g. "lemon" for lemon green is not a basic color term, but a secondary one. As you have probably noticed in Nahuatl all colorterms could be argued to be secondary (arguably not kostik and kapotstik, which are probably derived, but from words we don't know). The fact that Nahuatl doesn't have any roots (other than kapots- and kos- if we accept them) specficially and exclusively referring to color properties makes it a very special language. Oh and btw. one of my consultants from Hueyapan who is always good at making up folketymologies did translate kamohpaltik as "no est? mojado". In Hueyapan the purple color is called simply kamohtik. Magnus Pharao Hansen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From susana at losrancheros.org Tue Nov 10 19:50:11 2009 From: susana at losrancheros.org (Susana Moraleda) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 20:50:11 +0100 Subject: Tloc, nahuac, tech, tlan Message-ID: I'm a bit confused on the uses of TLOC, NAHUAC, TECH and TLAN since they all have similar meanings. I've consulted Garibay, Sullivan and Horcasitas, but the differences are not clear. a.. TLOC and NAHUAC are synonyms and mean "junto a", "cerca de". b.. TECH means "en", "pegado o adherente a", "referente a". c.. (TI)TLAN means "en", "entre", "con", "junto a", "cerca de". And besides, Garibay says "sobre", while Sullivan says "debajo"!!! Are there any rules saying when to use which? Thanks for any thoughts. Susana -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Tue Nov 10 22:13:26 2009 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 17:13:26 -0500 Subject: Tloc, nahuac, tech, tlan In-Reply-To: <002d01ca623f$0844f8c0$d2e93697@susana> Message-ID: Quoting Susana Moraleda : > > > I'm a bit confused on the uses of TLOC, NAHUAC, TECH and TLAN since > they all have similar meanings. I've consulted Garibay, Sullivan and > Horcasitas, but the differences are not clear. > > a.. TLOC and NAHUAC are synonyms and mean "junto a", "cerca de". Hello, Susana, tloc = 'side' and therefore "nearness", e.g., motloc 'at your side' Nahuac = 'within hearing distance', e.g., calli inahuac 'near the house'; amonahuac = 'near you'. This is from /na:wa-/ 'audible, clear sound'. > b.. TECH means "en", "pegado o adherente a", "referente a". Yes, "tech" has to do with "contact" or a relation involving surfaces--contiguity, hence "side". It's also the way Nahuatl expresses "concerning" and you see it everywhere at the beginning of book chapters. So, motech 'in contact with you' as well as 'concerning you'. > c.. (TI)TLAN means "en", "entre", "con", "junto a", "cerca de". And > besides, Garibay says "sobre", while Sullivan says "debajo"!!! > Are there any rules saying when to use which? I would have to think about "sobre". Don't quite know what Garibay is getting at. What examples does he offer for "sobre"? Typically, "tlan" has to do with "underneath" stuff, but also "next to" stuff, and there are ambiguities, so context helps to understand this one. For example, "callan" can mean either "under the house" or "near the house"; xa:llan means 'under the sand'; a:tlan 'under the water'. At the same time, "motlan" means 'by your side'! tocaltitlan 'near our house' tlan can also go with body parts to create quite specific ideas of place: ami:xtlan = 'in front of you'; cuauhtzi:ntlan 'at the base of the tree' (cuahu(itl) + tzi:nt(tli) + -tlan. Some locative expressions only go with certain nouns. These locative expressions are a very interesting and productive aspect of Nahuatl, and one could spend a whole year just exploring them alone. I hope this little bit helps. Michael _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx Tue Nov 10 22:48:47 2009 From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 16:48:47 -0600 Subject: Tloc, nahuac, tech, tlan In-Reply-To: <002d01ca623f$0844f8c0$d2e93697@susana> Message-ID: Susana: As far as I can see, in early colonial central Mexican Nahuatl -tloc, -na:huac, -tech (preceded by the ligature -ti- when the noun it follows ends in a consonant), and -tlan (preceded by the ligature -ti- in place names) are postpositions; -tla:n (never with -ti-) is a locative suffix. Postpositions are like English prepositions in that they express relations (spatial, temporal, and other sorts), and have been labeled as such because of their similar function, and the fact that they are added to the end of nouns. Postpositions can also be added to possessive prefixes; the existence of examples where the latter happens is what distinguishes postpositions from locative or other sorts of suffixes. This is why -tla:n is usually labeled as a locative suffix: it?s not found stuck to a possessive prefix. To label a morpheme a ?locative suffix? is a risky proposition, since if an example can be provided of it being attached to a possessive prefix, then we would be forced to move it to the category of postpositions. Colonial grammarians (Andr?s de Olmos, Alonso Molina, Horacio Carochi, and others) called postpositions ?preposiciones? in spite of their place and the end of words. The earliest use of the term ?postposition? (or its cognates in French or Spanish) that I?ve seen is in the grammatical sketch by Sim?on, published in 1885. Others have followed this practice, including ?ngel Mar?a Garibay, Thelma Sullivan, Joe Campbell, and Frances Karttunen. Richard Andrews preferred to call them ?relational suffixes? in 1975 and now prefers the phrase ?relational NNC? (NNC = ?nominal nuclear clause?). Lockhart calls them ?relational words.? The classic example of postpositions behaving like nouns is the name of the Nahua deity Tloqueh Na:huaqueh, ?owner of that which is together, owner of that which is near?, a ubiquitous, invisible being. Here the ?postpositions?, exceptionally, come first, adding the singular possessive suffix -eh. The final c in both cases becomes qu because of a Spanish spelling convention, both being /k/. Alonso Molina?s Arte de la lengua mexicana y castellana (1571), chapter 6 (folios 74r-80v), has a good treatment of postpositions combined with possessive prefixes. An example is notlan (the first person singular possessive prefix no- plus the postposition -tlan). Rather than ?my with? (which of course doesn?t make sense in English), notlan means ?with me?. As for possible translations, I?ve compiled a list for each postposition (or in the case of -tla:n, locative suffix), putting together all of the possibilities I?ve found in a variety of colonial and modern sources. Since most of these are in Spanish, I?ll leave them in this language, to avoid the double distortion we would have if I were to translate them into English. Postpositions: -tloc al lado de/cerca de/con/junto a -na:huac (na:hua + (co - o)) al lado de/cerca de/con/en compa??a de/en la vecindad de/junto a -tech a/adherido a/con/de/en/en contacto con/entre/incorporado a/junto a/sobre -tlan al lado de/cerca de/con/debajo de/en/en compa??a de/en el interior de/entre/junto a Locative suffix: -tla:n con/en/entre/junto a/lugar de As you mentioned, there?s a lot of semantic overlap. I guess the next step would be to observe their use in early colonial texts to get a better grasp of how they were used. I hope this helps clear things up. Best wishes, David De: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org [mailto:nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org] En nombre de Susana Moraleda Enviado el: martes, 10 de noviembre de 2009 01:50 p.m. Para: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org Asunto: [Nahuat-l] Tloc, nahuac, tech, tlan I'm a bit confused on the uses of TLOC, NAHUAC, TECH and TLAN since they all have similar meanings. I've consulted Garibay, Sullivan and Horcasitas, but the differences are not clear. ? TLOC and NAHUAC are synonyms and mean "junto a", "cerca de". ? TECH means "en", "pegado o adherente a", "referente a". ? (TI)TLAN means "en", "entre", "con", "junto a", "cerca de". And besides, Garibay says "sobre", while Sullivan says "debajo"!!! Are there any rules saying when to use which? Thanks for any thoughts. Susana -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Tue Nov 10 23:18:02 2009 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 18:18:02 -0500 Subject: Tloc, nahuac, tech, tlan In-Reply-To: <000001ca6257$ff4c7cc0$fde57640$@net.mx> Message-ID: Quoting David Wright : > Susana: > > > > As far as I can see, in early colonial central Mexican Nahuatl -tloc, > -na:huac, -tech (preceded by the ligature -ti- when the noun it follows ends > in a consonant), and -tlan (preceded by the ligature -ti- in place names) > are postpositions; -tla:n (never with -ti-) is a locative suffix. tla:n is usually seen place names. It's not that common otherwise. > Postpositions are like English prepositions in that they express relations > (spatial, temporal, and other sorts), and have been labeled as such because > of their similar function, and the fact that they are added to the end of > nouns. Postpositions can also be added to possessive prefixes; the existence > of examples where the latter happens is what distinguishes postpositions > from locative or other sorts of suffixes. This is why -tla:n is usually > labeled as a locative suffix: it?s not found stuck to a possessive prefix. > To label a morpheme a ?locative suffix? is a risky proposition, since if an > example can be provided of it being attached to a possessive prefix, then we > would be forced to move it to the category of postpositions. > > > > Colonial grammarians (Andr?s de Olmos, Alonso Molina, Horacio Carochi, and > others) called postpositions ?preposiciones? in spite of their place and the > end of words. The earliest use of the term ?postposition? (or its cognates > in French or Spanish) that I?ve seen is in the grammatical sketch by Sim?on, > published in 1885. Others have followed this practice, including ?ngel Mar?a > Garibay, Thelma Sullivan, Joe Campbell, and Frances Karttunen. Richard > Andrews preferred to call them ?relational suffixes? in 1975 and now prefers > the phrase ?relational NNC? (NNC = ?nominal nuclear clause?). Lockhart calls > them ?relational words.? > It's a convenience to refer to such entities as "postpositions". However, Andrews demonstrates that such a view is, as it puts it, "ethnocentric (or 'linguicentric')". This is of course one of Andrews' fortes, explaining Nahuatl from within rather from without (i.e., from a European language point of view. English grammar has suffered a somewhat similar fate in having been analyzed in the past through the lens of Latin grammar.) As Andrews explains, what we like to term "postpositions" for convenience sake are in truth noun stems "used to form adverbialized NNCs." This is not to say that we can't continue to call them "postpositions," but they are truly not postpositions. Michael > > > The classic example of postpositions behaving like nouns is the name of the > Nahua deity Tloqueh Na:huaqueh, ?owner of that which is together, owner of > that which is near?, a ubiquitous, invisible being. Here the > ?postpositions?, exceptionally, come first, adding the singular possessive > suffix -eh. The final c in both cases becomes qu because of a Spanish > spelling convention, both being /k/. > > > > Alonso Molina?s Arte de la lengua mexicana y castellana (1571), chapter 6 > (folios 74r-80v), has a good treatment of postpositions combined with > possessive prefixes. An example is notlan (the first person singular > possessive prefix no- plus the postposition -tlan). Rather than ?my with? > (which of course doesn?t make sense in English), notlan means ?with me?. > > > > As for possible translations, I?ve compiled a list for each postposition (or > in the case of -tla:n, locative suffix), putting together all of the > possibilities I?ve found in a variety of colonial and modern sources. Since > most of these are in Spanish, I?ll leave them in this language, to avoid the > double distortion we would have if I were to translate them into English. > > > > Postpositions: > > > > -tloc > > al lado de/cerca de/con/junto a > > > > -na:huac (na:hua + (co - o)) > > al lado de/cerca de/con/en compa??a de/en la vecindad de/junto a > > > > -tech > > a/adherido a/con/de/en/en contacto con/entre/incorporado a/junto a/sobre > > > > -tlan > > al lado de/cerca de/con/debajo de/en/en compa??a de/en el interior > de/entre/junto a > > > > Locative suffix: > > > > -tla:n > > con/en/entre/junto a/lugar de > > > > As you mentioned, there?s a lot of semantic overlap. I guess the next step > would be to observe their use in early colonial texts to get a better grasp > of how they were used. > > > > I hope this helps clear things up. > > > > Best wishes, > > > > David > > > > De: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org [mailto:nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org] > En nombre de Susana Moraleda > Enviado el: martes, 10 de noviembre de 2009 01:50 p.m. > Para: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > Asunto: [Nahuat-l] Tloc, nahuac, tech, tlan > > > > > > I'm a bit confused on the uses of TLOC, NAHUAC, TECH and TLAN since they all > have similar meanings. I've consulted Garibay, Sullivan and Horcasitas, but > the differences are not clear. > > ? TLOC and NAHUAC are synonyms and mean "junto a", "cerca de". > > ? TECH means "en", "pegado o adherente a", "referente a". > > ? (TI)TLAN means "en", "entre", "con", "junto a", "cerca de". And > besides, Garibay says "sobre", while Sullivan says "debajo"!!! > > Are there any rules saying when to use which? > > > > Thanks for any thoughts. > > > > Susana > > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Tue Nov 10 23:32:30 2009 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 18:32:30 -0500 Subject: nahuatl colors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thank you, Magnus, for your message. Maybe, if Karen Dakin has the time, she could fill us in as what was happening color-wise in Proto-Uto-Aztecan. It would be interesting to see what underlies Nahuatl color creations. As an aside, I'm working on a paper having to do with the Illinois inanimate intransitive final /-alaantee-/ meaning 'colored', as we see in /iskipakalaantee-/ 'it is blue/green'; /oosaawalaantee-/ 'it is yellow colored'. This final can be traced to an ancient Illinois initial meaning *red*. Michael Quoting Magnus Pharao Hansen : > Hi Listeros > > Just wanted to chip in on the color topic, albeit a little belatedly. I have > worked with color terminology studies in the past and done a small pilot > survey in Hueyapan. I thought it would be worth it to mention that in fact > the most interesting thing about Nahuatlo colourterminology is that > according to the criteria of Paul Kay and Brent Berlin in their "Basic Color > Terms" Nahuatl could be one of the only languages in the world *not *to have > any true color terms! According to Berlin and Kay all languages have between > two and eleven basic color terms, in a predictable order, i.e. if it has > three it has black, white and red, if it has five it has those three plus > yellow and either green or blue etc. What's interesting is that among the > criteria is that a basic color term is not derived from anyother word - the > term must be exclusively related to color. That means that e.g. "lemon" for > lemon green is not a basic color term, but a secondary one. As you have > probably noticed in Nahuatl all colorterms could be argued to be secondary > (arguably not kostik and kapotstik, which are probably derived, but from > words we don't know). The fact that Nahuatl doesn't have any roots (other > than kapots- and kos- if we accept them) specficially and exclusively > referring to color properties makes it a very special language. > > Oh and btw. one of my consultants from Hueyapan who is always good at making > up folketymologies did translate kamohpaltik as "no est? mojado". In > Hueyapan the purple color is called simply kamohtik. > > Magnus Pharao Hansen > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx Wed Nov 11 00:04:27 2009 From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 18:04:27 -0600 Subject: Tloc, nahuac, tech, tlan In-Reply-To: <20091110181802.2d727jhaasws0gso@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: Estimado Michael: Thanks for expanding on my minimal quote from Andrews. I agree with you about Andrews' approach but I hesitate to use it with my students, who are undergrad history students with little linguistic training beyond high school grammar. I use postposition ("posposici?n") because I think (or hope) they will catch the basic idea without getting a mental hernia, relating these morphemes to what are called "preposiciones" in their mother tongue, since both sets have a similar semantic function, while the pre-/post- contrast emphasizes their usual place within words. I was just checking to see what Michel Launey calls these morphemes, since I had excluded him from the list terms used by prominent grammarians through the centuries. On page 226 of his Introduction ? la langue et ? la litt?rature azt?ques (1979), he calls them "suffixes locatifs" and adds that "sont en r?alit? une sorte de noms un peu particuliers, qui peuvent se mettre ? la forme poss?d?e, et qui, suffix?s ? des radicaux nominaux, forment des noms compos?s [...]." I haven't checked his thesis of 1986 yet to see if he maintained that terminology. Saludos, David -----Mensaje original----- De: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org [mailto:nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org] En nombre de Michael McCafferty Enviado el: martes, 10 de noviembre de 2009 05:18 p.m. Para: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org Asunto: Re: [Nahuat-l] Tloc, nahuac, tech, tlan [...] It's a convenience to refer to such entities as "postpositions". However, Andrews demonstrates that such a view is, as it puts it, "ethnocentric (or 'linguicentric')". This is of course one of Andrews' fortes, explaining Nahuatl from within rather from without (i.e., from a European language point of view. English grammar has suffered a somewhat similar fate in having been analyzed in the past through the lens of Latin grammar.) As Andrews explains, what we like to term "postpositions" for convenience sake are in truth noun stems "used to form adverbialized NNCs." This is not to say that we can't continue to call them "postpositions," but they are truly not postpositions. Michael _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Wed Nov 11 00:26:16 2009 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 19:26:16 -0500 Subject: Tloc, nahuac, tech, tlan In-Reply-To: <000b01ca6262$9a269fa0$ce73dee0$@net.mx> Message-ID: Quoting David Wright : > Estimado Michael: Good to hear from you, David. > > Thanks for expanding on my minimal quote from Andrews. I agree with you > about Andrews' approach but I hesitate to use it with my students, who are > undergrad history students with little linguistic training beyond high > school grammar. I use postposition ("posposici?n") because I think (or hope) > they will catch the basic idea without getting a mental hernia, relating > these morphemes to what are called "preposiciones" in their mother tongue, > since both sets have a similar semantic function, while the pre-/post- > contrast emphasizes their usual place within words. I understand what you're saying. Of course, I simply wanted to make sure that our listeros understand the actual syntactical situation for Nahuatl, for these "postpositions" are identified as such in quite respectable, modern books. This is fine, as you suggest, when it comes to teaching beginners. But for the many of the folks on this list who have advanced knowledge of the language, I think we need to use "postpositions" with a wink and a nod. > > I was just checking to see what Michel Launey calls these morphemes, since I > had excluded him from the list terms used by prominent grammarians through > the centuries. On page 226 of his Introduction ? la langue et ? la > litt?rature azt?ques (1979), he calls them "suffixes locatifs" and adds that > "sont en r?alit? une sorte de noms un peu particuliers, qui peuvent se > mettre ? la forme poss?d?e, et qui, suffix?s ? des radicaux nominaux, > forment des noms compos?s [...]." I haven't checked his thesis of 1986 yet > to see if he maintained that terminology. It's difficult to know how far Launay saw into the language, in this particular regard, when he wrote his thesis or book. This is one reason I like to read Andrews, as he has been able to see deeply into the language. If one continues to chew on what Andrews says, one will come to realize that he's generally right in his analyses. His explication of "postpositions" is impressive. I wonder if his book is readable on the web. > Saludos, si, a cambio. Michael > > David > > -----Mensaje original----- > De: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org [mailto:nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org] > En nombre de Michael McCafferty > Enviado el: martes, 10 de noviembre de 2009 05:18 p.m. > Para: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > Asunto: Re: [Nahuat-l] Tloc, nahuac, tech, tlan > > [...] > > It's a convenience to refer to such entities as "postpositions". > However, Andrews demonstrates that such a view is, as it puts it, > "ethnocentric (or 'linguicentric')". > > This is of course one of Andrews' fortes, explaining Nahuatl from > within rather from without (i.e., from a European language point of > view. English grammar has suffered a somewhat similar fate in having > been analyzed in the past through the lens of Latin grammar.) > > As Andrews explains, what we like to term "postpositions" for > convenience sake are in truth noun stems "used to form adverbialized > NNCs." This is not to say that we can't continue to call them > "postpositions," but they are truly not postpositions. > > Michael > > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx Wed Nov 11 01:46:19 2009 From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 19:46:19 -0600 Subject: Tloc, nahuac, tech, tlan Message-ID: P.S. Launey, in his dissertation (1986: 756-864), calls postpositions (nod and wink) "autolocatifs", stating that while they have the syntactic properties of locatives, they are not locative suffixes. He goes on to describe their behavior in different contexts, giving examples from colonial sources, including precise references which make it easy to look them up. This explains why the term "autolocativos" is used in the Spanish version of Launey's grammar (1992: 219), while in the original text (1979: 226) he uses "suffixes locatifs" and "suffixes de noms de lieu", which had me puzzled about an hour ago. It looks like the translator was trying to bring his text up-to-date, using the dissertation. References Michel Launey, Introduction ? la langue et ? la litt?rature azt?ques, tome 1 : grammaire, Paris, L'Harmattan, 1979 (reprint 1995). ______, Cat?gories et op?rations dans la grammaire nahuatl, 2 vols., dissertation, Paris, Universit? de Paris IV, 1986 (digital facsimile in: Centre National de la Recherche Scientifique, http://www.vjf.cnrs.fr/celia/FichExt/Etudes/Launey/tm.htm; access: March 14, 2009). (Thanks to Michael Swanton for the link.) ______, Introducci?n a la lengua y a la literatura n?huatl, trad. Cristina Kraft, Mexico City, Instituto de Investigaciones Antropol?gicas, Universidad Nacional Aut?noma de M?xico, 1992. _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From idiez at me.com Thu Nov 12 02:25:08 2009 From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan, Ph.D.) Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 20:25:08 -0600 Subject: nahuatl colors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Piyali Magnus, But isn?t that just the way Nahuatl is? How do you describe something in Nahuatl? You say that it?s semblance is the result of having completed a certain action, i.e., chip:hua>chipa:huac or tetiya>tetic. And this last one is just an excuse for saying that it resembles some other noun. So there really aren?t any adjectival roots in Nahuatl, except for maybe hueyi. "co:z-" isn?t just for color. [first of all I need to remark that in Huastecan Nahuatl co:ztic has a long "o"]. "co:ztzin" is a type of corn, so co:ztic just means that something has come to resembled that kind of corn (in it?s yellowness). And yes, there is the intermediate form co:ztiya, "for something to yellow". "co:cihui" means that a fruit is ripening and turning yellow (co:z [tli]-ihui). John John Sullivan, Ph.D. Professor of Nahua language and culture Universidad Aut?noma de Zacatecas Zacatecas Institute of Teaching and Research in Ethnology Tacuba 152, int. 43 Centro Hist?rico Zacatecas, Zac. 98000 Mexico Work: +52 (492) 925-3415 Fax: +1 (858) 724-3030 (U.S.A.) Home: +52 (492) 768-6048 Mobile: +52 1 (492) 103-0195 idiez at me.com On Nov 10, 2009, at 12:16 PM, Magnus Pharao Hansen wrote: > Hi Listeros > > Just wanted to chip in on the color topic, albeit a little > belatedly. I have worked with color terminology studies in the past > and done a small pilot survey in Hueyapan. I thought it would be > worth it to mention that in fact the most interesting thing about > Nahuatlo colourterminology is that according to the criteria of Paul > Kay and Brent Berlin in their "Basic Color Terms" Nahuatl could be > one of the only languages in the world not to have any true color > terms! According to Berlin and Kay all languages have between two > and eleven basic color terms, in a predictable order, i.e. if it has > three it has black, white and red, if it has five it has those three > plus yellow and either green or blue etc. What's interesting is > that among the criteria is that a basic color term is not derived > from anyother word - the term must be exclusively related to color. > That means that e.g. "lemon" for lemon green is not a basic color > term, but a secondary one. As you have probably noticed in Nahuatl > all colorterms could be argued to be secondary (arguably not kostik > and kapotstik, which are probably derived, but from words we don't > know). The fact that Nahuatl doesn't have any roots (other than > kapots- and kos- if we accept them) specficially and exclusively > referring to color properties makes it a very special language. > > Oh and btw. one of my consultants from Hueyapan who is always good > at making up folketymologies did translate kamohpaltik as "no est? > mojado". In Hueyapan the purple color is called simply kamohtik. > > Magnus Pharao Hansen > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From lahunik.62 at skynet.be Wed Nov 11 23:09:05 2009 From: lahunik.62 at skynet.be (lahunik.62 at skynet.be) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 00:09:05 +0100 Subject: Tloc, Nahuac and Tlan Message-ID: -TLOC and -NAHUAC: Near, beside, nearby, with. They are used frequently together. They are mostly used in a possessif formation. Tonahuac, near or beside us. Tlanahuac, nearby something. Cuahuitl inahuac, near a tree. Notloc xinemi, live with me. The suffix -pa can be used after -tloc. Notlocpa ximotlali, sit down nearby me. The honour titles are -nahuactzinco and -tloctzinco. Itloctzinco inahuactzinco ninemi in teuctli, I live beside the Lord. Nahuac can be used on a nominal stem. Nacalnahuac, nearby my house. A lot of toponymes are made this way. Cuauhnahuac, Cuernavaca (beside the trees) Anahuac, name of the valley of Mexico (beside the water). Tloc and nahuac, forming each a possessif noun, tloqueh nahuaqueh. -TLAN The suffix -tlan is exclusively used to form toponymes Tollan, the suffixe -tlan with assimilation (l + tl = ll). Lahun ik 62 Baert Georges Flanders Fields -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From lovegren at buffalo.edu Thu Nov 12 02:22:35 2009 From: lovegren at buffalo.edu (Jesse Lovegren) Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 21:22:35 -0500 Subject: Grammar/Wordlist for Michoacan Nahuatl Message-ID: Can anyone recommend to me any resources dealing specifically with Michoacan Nahuatl? -- Jesse Lovegren Department of Linguistics 645 Baldy Hall office +1 716 645 0136 cell +1 512 584 5468 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From magnuspharao at gmail.com Thu Nov 12 03:08:22 2009 From: magnuspharao at gmail.com (Magnus Pharao Hansen) Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 21:08:22 -0600 Subject: nahuatl colors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Ken otimosemilwitiwak, Dr. Sullivan It is true that that is how Nahuatl is. The interesting thing is that Nahuatl has apparently jettisoned most of the color vocabulary of proto-Uto-Aztecan to become that way (If I am not mistaken the only Nahuatl colour word that has a UA cognate is *ista*- which is cognate with PUA *tosa), and furthermore that that is a very uncommon way for languages to be cross linguistically. Kay and Berlins study shows that it is by far the most common in the worlds languages to have terms that are exclusive for color. Thanks for giving me the yellow corn word - I have always been wondering whether there wasn't such a word out there - in a way its very beautiful that nahuatl color terms are derived from food products in this way - Hueyapan also has ya:wik "color of blue maize (ya:witl)". Magnus 2009/11/11 John Sullivan, Ph.D. Piyali Magnus, > But isn?t that just the way Nahuatl is? How do you describe something in > Nahuatl? You say that it?s semblance is the result of having completed a > certain action, i.e., chip:hua>chipa:huac or tetiya>tetic. And this last one > is just an excuse for saying that it resembles some other noun. So there > really aren?t any adjectival roots in Nahuatl, except for maybe hueyi. > "co:z-" isn?t just for color. [first of all I need to remark that in > Huastecan Nahuatl co:ztic has a long "o"]. "co:ztzin" is a type of corn, so > co:ztic just means that something has come to resembled that kind of corn > (in it?s yellowness). And yes, there is the intermediate form co:ztiya, "for > something to yellow". > "co:cihui" means that a fruit is ripening and turning yellow > (co:z[tli]-ihui). > John > > John Sullivan, Ph.D. > Professor of Nahua language and culture > Universidad Aut?noma de Zacatecas > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Thu Nov 12 12:33:29 2009 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 07:33:29 -0500 Subject: nahuatl colors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Here are the coordinates for the Hill's paper on PUA colors: http://www.jstor.org/stable/30029256?cookieSet=1 Michael Quoting Magnus Pharao Hansen : > Ken otimosemilwitiwak, Dr. Sullivan > > It is true that that is how Nahuatl is. The interesting thing is that > Nahuatl has apparently jettisoned most of the color vocabulary of > proto-Uto-Aztecan to become that way (If I am not mistaken the only Nahuatl > colour word that has a UA cognate is *ista*- which is cognate with PUA > *tosa), and furthermore that that is a very uncommon way for languages to be > cross linguistically. Kay and Berlins study shows that it is by far the most > common in the worlds languages to have terms that are exclusive for color. > > Thanks for giving me the yellow corn word - I have always been wondering > whether there wasn't such a word out there - in a way its very beautiful > that nahuatl color terms are derived from food products in this way - > Hueyapan also has ya:wik "color of blue maize (ya:witl)". > > Magnus > > > 2009/11/11 John Sullivan, Ph.D. > > Piyali Magnus, >> But isn?t that just the way Nahuatl is? How do you describe something in >> Nahuatl? You say that it?s semblance is the result of having completed a >> certain action, i.e., chip:hua>chipa:huac or tetiya>tetic. And this last one >> is just an excuse for saying that it resembles some other noun. So there >> really aren?t any adjectival roots in Nahuatl, except for maybe hueyi. >> "co:z-" isn?t just for color. [first of all I need to remark that in >> Huastecan Nahuatl co:ztic has a long "o"]. "co:ztzin" is a type of corn, so >> co:ztic just means that something has come to resembled that kind of corn >> (in it?s yellowness). And yes, there is the intermediate form co:ztiya, "for >> something to yellow". >> "co:cihui" means that a fruit is ripening and turning yellow >> (co:z[tli]-ihui). >> John >> >> John Sullivan, Ph.D. >> Professor of Nahua language and culture >> Universidad Aut?noma de Zacatecas >> > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From idiez at me.com Thu Nov 12 03:45:18 2009 From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan, Ph.D.) Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 21:45:18 -0600 Subject: Tloc, Nahuac and Tlan In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Piyali Baert, "-tla:n" with the long "a" forms place names. "-tlan" with the short "a" forms place names with the "-ti" ligature, It attaches directly to nouns stems or uses the ligature when it means "below, next to, amoung (Karttunen)" something. There are also some constructions referring to time/events, at least in Huastecan Nahuatl. Here are some examples (minus vowel length): -elchiquititlan, "next to s.o.s ribs" -nacaztlan, "to the side of s.o. (next to their ear)" -quechtlan, "s.o.?s throat" atitlan, "low land where water accumulates" ahuahcatlan, "deep water" -tzintlan, "the base of s.t." tlazoltitlan, "place where there is a lot of garbage" -nentlan, "place that s.o. is familiar with" zoquititlan, "a muddy place" tlazoquititlan, "place where it muddy all over" tlaltzintlan, "underground" And dealing with time: mecohtlan or mecohtitlan, "during carnavel (fiesta de los pintados)" ilhuititlan, "day of the dead" toquiztlan, "planting season" ahuaquiztlan or tlahuaquiztlan, "dry season" John John Sullivan, Ph.D. Professor of Nahua language and culture Universidad Aut?noma de Zacatecas Zacatecas Institute of Teaching and Research in Ethnology Tacuba 152, int. 43 Centro Hist?rico Zacatecas, Zac. 98000 Mexico Work: +52 (492) 925-3415 Fax: +1 (858) 724-3030 (U.S.A.) Home: +52 (492) 768-6048 Mobile: +52 1 (492) 103-0195 idiez at me.com On Nov 11, 2009, at 5:09 PM, lahunik.62 at skynet.be wrote: > -TLOC and ?NAHUAC: > Near, beside, nearby, with. > They are used frequently together. > They are mostly used in a possessif formation. > Tonahuac, near or beside us. > Tlanahuac, nearby something. > Cuahuitl inahuac, near a tree. > Notloc xinemi, live with me. > The suffix ?pa can be used after ?tloc. > Notlocpa ximotlali, sit down nearby me. > The honour titles are ?nahuactzinco and ?tloctzinco. > Itloctzinco inahuactzinco ninemi in teuctli, I live beside the Lord. > Nahuac can be used on a nominal stem. > Nacalnahuac, nearby my house. > A lot of toponymes are made this way. > Cuauhnahuac, Cuernavaca (beside the trees) > Anahuac, name of the valley of Mexico (beside the water). > Tloc and nahuac, forming each a possessif noun, tloqueh nahuaqueh. > -TLAN > The suffix ?tlan is exclusively used to form toponymes > Tollan, the suffixe ?tlan with assimilation (l + tl = ll). > Lahun ik 62 > Baert Georges > Flanders Fields > > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From magnuspharao at gmail.com Thu Nov 12 14:34:21 2009 From: magnuspharao at gmail.com (Magnus Pharao Hansen) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 08:34:21 -0600 Subject: nahuatl color terms Message-ID: Dear Dr. McCafferty and listeros I see several problems with the hills articles and I don' think it makes for a very reliable reconstruction. Why is teskatik glossed as blue and taken for cognate with texohtli? As far as I know teskatl (obsidian mirror) are black. Why is matlaltik glossed as green? As far as I know it refers to the blueish purple color of a bruise and came to taken on the meaning of green in some dialects through the common mesoamerican metaphor of crude/bruised > crude/green. They don't justify the notion that ne:xtik is a basic colorterm in Nahuatl - they don't even mention Berlin & kays distinction between basic and non basic terms or the problems that pose for the study of colorterms in any language. Also reconstructing *po as grey based on nahuatl pochektik which is clearly derived from poktli "smoke" and is not justified as being cognate with the other UA terms seems highly questionable. I noticed one clear cognate though: "pa" the nahuatl root for "color" seems to have originally meant "red" vis a vis the cognates in Cora and Hopi. The relation of red as the prototypical "color" is well known throughout the worlds languages e.g. in spanish "colorado". If someone wnts to read the best analysis of colors in Nahuatl, and UA and mesoamerica go for McLaurys Mesoamerican Color Terms. Magnus > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Michael McCafferty > To: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 07:33:29 -0500 > Subject: Re: [Nahuat-l] nahuatl colors > Here are the coordinates for the Hill's paper on PUA colors: > > http://www.jstor.org/stable/30029256?cookieSet=1 > > > Michael > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Thu Nov 12 15:10:14 2009 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 10:10:14 -0500 Subject: nahuatl color terms In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I'm not where I can discuss this now. I'm in class. But let me say that I read the article years ago, and simply supplied the web address for it. I ain't defending it in any way. :-) Quoting Magnus Pharao Hansen : > Dear Dr. McCafferty and listeros > > I see several problems with the hills articles and I don' think it makes for > a very reliable reconstruction. > > Why is teskatik glossed as blue and taken for cognate with texohtli? As far > as I know teskatl (obsidian mirror) are black. Why is matlaltik glossed as > green? As far as I know it refers to the blueish purple color of a bruise > and came to taken on the meaning of green in some dialects through the > common mesoamerican metaphor of crude/bruised > crude/green. They don't > justify the notion that ne:xtik is a basic colorterm in Nahuatl - they don't > even mention Berlin & kays distinction between basic and non basic terms or > the problems that pose for the study of colorterms in any language. Also > reconstructing *po as grey based on nahuatl pochektik which is clearly > derived from poktli "smoke" and is not justified as being cognate with the > other UA terms seems highly questionable. > > I noticed one clear cognate though: "pa" the nahuatl root for "color" seems > to have originally meant "red" vis a vis the cognates in Cora and Hopi. The > relation of red as the prototypical "color" is well known throughout the > worlds languages e.g. in spanish "colorado". If someone wnts to read the > best analysis of colors in Nahuatl, and UA and mesoamerica go for McLaurys > Mesoamerican Color Terms. > > > Magnus > > >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: Michael McCafferty >> To: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org >> Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 07:33:29 -0500 >> Subject: Re: [Nahuat-l] nahuatl colors >> Here are the coordinates for the Hill's paper on PUA colors: >> >> http://www.jstor.org/stable/30029256?cookieSet=1 >> >> >> Michael >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From campbel at indiana.edu Thu Nov 12 21:36:21 2009 From: campbel at indiana.edu (Campbell, R. Joe) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 16:36:21 -0500 Subject: Tloc, nahuac, tech, tlan In-Reply-To: <20091110192616.snzzsawqo0k0wgsk@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: Nocnihuan, The things we call "postpositions" or "relational nouns" obviously don't all follow the same distributional map, so I have put a rough one together. "Rough" means that I consider just a draft, so I won't mind having mistakes drawn to my attention. I include -nahuac in the list in spite of the fact that I know that it is really a noun with attached -c(o). Category 5 (occurs after a noun) has a neutral label in order to avoid calling fish or fowl (i.e., noun compound or noun suffix). Obviously, these categories hint strongly at the noun-like behavior of these objects of our attention, which goes in the opposite direction from their frequent spatial and temporal function in the language. As Arnie said, "I'll be back." Joe "postpositions" 1 takes a "verber" suffix 2 embeds in -yo(tl) 3 takes absolutive 4 takes a possessive prefix 5 occurs after a noun 6 embeds in -eh (e.g., tloqueh) [not included yet in the chart] x = yes 1 2 3 4 5 can x x x x co x x huan x x huic x x x ican x x nahuac x x x x x pa x ? pan x x x x x pampa x x x tech x x x x x tlan x x x x x tloc x x tzalan x x x x x _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Thu Nov 12 23:06:14 2009 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 18:06:14 -0500 Subject: nahuatl color terms In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Quoting Magnus Pharao Hansen : > > I noticed one clear cognate though: "pa" the nahuatl root for "color" seems > to have originally meant "red" vis a vis the cognates in Cora and Hopi. The > relation of red as the prototypical "color" is well known throughout the > worlds languages e.g. in spanish "colorado". If someone wnts to read the > best analysis of colors in Nahuatl, and UA and mesoamerica go for McLaurys > Mesoamerican Color Terms. > Thank you for mentioning these facts, Magnus, as they seems to dovetail with the reality in the Illinois language. Michael > > Magnus > > >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: Michael McCafferty >> To: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org >> Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 07:33:29 -0500 >> Subject: Re: [Nahuat-l] nahuatl colors >> Here are the coordinates for the Hill's paper on PUA colors: >> >> http://www.jstor.org/stable/30029256?cookieSet=1 >> >> >> Michael >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Thu Nov 12 23:18:25 2009 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 18:18:25 -0500 Subject: Tloc, nahuac, tech, tlan In-Reply-To: <20091112163621.11splo6s00co48sc@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: Jotzin, Thank you for putting this first "draught" together. This will nicely lay the foundation for a good look at these creatures. What struck me in about my first couple weeks of studying Nahuatl was the "nounal" ;-) character of "postpositions," particularly the way they could be possessed as well enter into composite terms as the head. I felt, "We aren't in Kansas anymore." As examples, here are just a few things that occurred to me as I write this message: tehuan ihuan nicnehuanilpia nohuampoh teihtic teixco tehuic teca teicpac tlapanco tloqueh tlancuaitl even: ayic etc... Tambien: Y mis listeros, aqui esta lo que me escribi Martin Mangei esta manana. Muy interesante. "To be honest, I think that Andrews' analysis of the relational nouns/prepositions/postpositions reveals rather one of his major shortcomings: the confusing and consequent intermixture and confusion of historical and synchronical facts. Yes, these words have emerged from nouns (as many prepositions do), yes they can be inflected in a way very similar to nouns (as prepositions can), and yes they seem to have emerged from some kind of adverbal use of nouns (as preposition often do). BUT: "preposition" doesn't name a historical development, it's rather a morphosyntactic term. Deciding whether a class of words can or should be termed "preposition", nothing but their morphological, perhaps their meaning/function and primarily their syntactic behaviour should be considered - which is quite simply preposition-like :) But there is another intresting question with regard to these words. Some of them can have relatively similar meanings. Do you know whether it is possible to tell whether such Rel.Nouns differ with regard to the nouns they 'govern'? Such that we could state rules like e.g.: "The suffix -c(o) expresses locative meaning with nouns like A, B, C etc., whereas the same meaning is expressed by means of the (quasi synonym) Rel.Noun -pan with nouns as D, E, F. etc" mmangei at gmx.de Michael Quoting "Campbell, R. Joe" : > Nocnihuan, > > The things we call "postpositions" or "relational nouns" obviously > don't all follow the same distributional map, so I have put a rough > one together. "Rough" means that I consider just a draft, so I won't > mind having mistakes drawn to my attention. > > I include -nahuac in the list in spite of the fact that I know that > it is really a noun with attached -c(o). > > Category 5 (occurs after a noun) has a neutral label in order to > avoid calling fish or fowl (i.e., noun compound or noun suffix). > > Obviously, these categories hint strongly at the noun-like behavior > of these objects of our attention, which goes in the opposite > direction from their frequent spatial and temporal function in the > language. > > As Arnie said, "I'll be back." > > Joe > > "postpositions" > > 1 takes a "verber" suffix > 2 embeds in -yo(tl) > 3 takes absolutive > 4 takes a possessive prefix > 5 occurs after a noun > 6 embeds in -eh (e.g., tloqueh) [not included yet in the chart] > > x = yes > > 1 2 3 4 5 > > can x x x x > > co x x > > huan x x > > huic x x x > > ican x x > > nahuac x x x x x > > pa x ? > > pan x x x x x > > pampa x x x > > tech x x x x x > > tlan x x x x x > > tloc x x > > tzalan x x x x x > > > > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx Thu Nov 12 23:42:26 2009 From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 17:42:26 -0600 Subject: Tloc, nahuac, tech, tlan In-Reply-To: <20091112163621.11splo6s00co48sc@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: Thanks for the distributional map, Joe. I just checked it against my table of postpositions and locative suffixes (Lectura del Nahuatl, pp. 87-94, currently in the process of expansion and revision for a second edition). In this table I use as the main criterion for classification your fourth column, that is whether or not these morphemes are found attached to a possessive prefix (if they are, they are classified as postpositions; if not, they are called locative suffixes). Most of the data are in harmony, except in two cases: 1. You list -can (which I assume to be /ca:n/) as taking a possessive prefix. I haven't found any examples of this, although I admit I haven't searched very hard. If I see examples, I'll have to move this morpheme from my list of locative suffixes to the "postposition" category. Can you give me a couple of examples, preferably with references to early colonial sources? (Modern sources won't do, because I'm focusing on central Mexican Nahuatl from 1521 to 1650.) I suppose your magic Nahuatl machine can make quick work of this. 2. You include -ican, which I don't have on my table in either category. The "x" in the fourth column means that it would be a postposition as I've defined this word. I just checked a stack of descriptive sources (Carochi, Lockhart, Andrews, Launey, Wolf, Karttunen, and Molina's Arte) and couldn't find this postposition, unless it's something one would see inside of -i:campa, "behind/beyond," after removing the locative suffix -pa. I would like to add this morpheme to the table, but to do so I would have to know where it is found, what it means and if it has any long vowels. Can you give me a hand with this? David -----Mensaje original----- De: Campbell, R. Joe [mailto:campbel at indiana.edu] Enviado el: jueves, 12 de noviembre de 2009 03:36 p.m. Para: Michael McCafferty CC: David Wright; nahuatl at lists.famsi.org Asunto: Re: [Nahuat-l] Tloc, nahuac, tech, tlan Nocnihuan, The things we call "postpositions" or "relational nouns" obviously don't all follow the same distributional map, so I have put a rough one together. "Rough" means that I consider just a draft, so I won't mind having mistakes drawn to my attention. I include -nahuac in the list in spite of the fact that I know that it is really a noun with attached -c(o). Category 5 (occurs after a noun) has a neutral label in order to avoid calling fish or fowl (i.e., noun compound or noun suffix). Obviously, these categories hint strongly at the noun-like behavior of these objects of our attention, which goes in the opposite direction from their frequent spatial and temporal function in the language. As Arnie said, "I'll be back." Joe "postpositions" 1 takes a "verber" suffix 2 embeds in -yo(tl) 3 takes absolutive 4 takes a possessive prefix 5 occurs after a noun 6 embeds in -eh (e.g., tloqueh) [not included yet in the chart] x = yes 1 2 3 4 5 can x x x x co x x huan x x huic x x x ican x x nahuac x x x x x pa x ? pan x x x x x pampa x x x tech x x x x x tlan x x x x x tloc x x tzalan x x x x x _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Fri Nov 13 01:05:01 2009 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 20:05:01 -0500 Subject: Tloc, nahuac, tech, tlan In-Reply-To: <000301ca63f1$d3a75ef0$7af61cd0$@net.mx> Message-ID: Quoting David Wright : > Thanks for the distributional map, Joe. I just checked it against my table > of postpositions and locative suffixes (Lectura del Nahuatl, pp. 87-94, > currently in the process of expansion and revision for a second edition). In > this table I use as the main criterion for classification your fourth > column, that is whether or not these morphemes are found attached to a > possessive prefix (if they are, they are classified as postpositions; if > not, they are called locative suffixes). Most of the data are in harmony, > except in two cases: > > 1. You list -can (which I assume to be /ca:n/) as taking a possessive > prefix. I haven't found any examples of this, although I admit I haven't > searched very hard. If I see examples, I'll have to move this morpheme from > my list of locative suffixes to the "postposition" category. Can you give me > a couple of examples, preferably with references to early colonial sources? > (Modern sources won't do, because I'm focusing on central Mexican Nahuatl > from 1521 to 1650.) I suppose your magic Nahuatl machine can make quick work > of this. David: I don't recall seeing /ca:n/ in, say, a simple possessed form such as *tocan but it does appear in *possessed* forms, e.g., ipeuhcan, itzinehcan, etc. Perhaps that is what Joe is getting at when he says "possessed". > > 2. You include -ican, which I don't have on my table in either category. The > "x" in the fourth column means that it would be a postposition as I've > defined this word. I just checked a stack of descriptive sources (Carochi, > Lockhart, Andrews, Launey, Wolf, Karttunen, and Molina's Arte) and couldn't > find this postposition, unless it's something one would see inside of > -i:campa, "behind/beyond," after removing the locative suffix -pa. I would > like to add this morpheme to the table, but to do so I would have to know > where it is found, what it means and if it has any long vowels. Can you give > me a hand with this? I would agree that this is -i:can-pa. Michael > > David > > -----Mensaje original----- > De: Campbell, R. Joe [mailto:campbel at indiana.edu] > Enviado el: jueves, 12 de noviembre de 2009 03:36 p.m. > Para: Michael McCafferty > CC: David Wright; nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > Asunto: Re: [Nahuat-l] Tloc, nahuac, tech, tlan > > Nocnihuan, > > The things we call "postpositions" or "relational nouns" obviously > don't all follow the same distributional map, so I have put a rough one > together. "Rough" means that I consider just a draft, so I won't mind > having mistakes drawn to my attention. > > I include -nahuac in the list in spite of the fact that I know that > it is really a noun with attached -c(o). > > Category 5 (occurs after a noun) has a neutral label in order to > avoid calling fish or fowl (i.e., noun compound or noun suffix). > > Obviously, these categories hint strongly at the noun-like behavior > of these objects of our attention, which goes in the opposite direction > from their frequent spatial and temporal function in the language. > > As Arnie said, "I'll be back." > > Joe > > "postpositions" > > 1 takes a "verber" suffix > 2 embeds in -yo(tl) > 3 takes absolutive > 4 takes a possessive prefix > 5 occurs after a noun > 6 embeds in -eh (e.g., tloqueh) [not included yet in the chart] > > x = yes > > 1 2 3 4 5 > > can x x x x > > co x x > > huan x x > > huic x x x > > ican x x > > nahuac x x x x x > > pa x ? > > pan x x x x x > > pampa x x x > > tech x x x x x > > tlan x x x x x > > tloc x x > > tzalan x x x x x > > > > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx Fri Nov 13 01:48:52 2009 From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 19:48:52 -0600 Subject: Tloc, nahuac, tech, tlan In-Reply-To: <20091112200501.uhyhpbjy8w48gk0c@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: Thanks, Michael. I see Molina (1571: II, 42r) gives "Ipeuhcan en el comienzo, o en el principio, o al principio". That looks like i:peuhca:n /i:pewka:n/ (i: + (pewa - a) + ka:n), 3rd person singular possessive prefix + verb: begin + postposition (?) where/in/in the time of/place of/by. So I guess I can call ca:n a postposition, based on the criteria of it appearing with a possessive prefix (and a verb!), although the example is not as clear as if we had a direct coupling of the prefix with ca:n. It is what it is, of course; the problem is fitting it into a somewhat arbitrary (but useful) classification scheme. -----Mensaje original----- De: Michael McCafferty [mailto:mmccaffe at indiana.edu] Enviado el: jueves, 12 de noviembre de 2009 07:05 p.m. Para: David Wright CC: 'Campbell, R. Joe'; nahuatl at lists.famsi.org Asunto: Re: [Nahuat-l] Tloc, nahuac, tech, tlan Quoting David Wright : > Thanks for the distributional map, Joe. I just checked it against my table > of postpositions and locative suffixes (Lectura del Nahuatl, pp. 87-94, > currently in the process of expansion and revision for a second edition). In > this table I use as the main criterion for classification your fourth > column, that is whether or not these morphemes are found attached to a > possessive prefix (if they are, they are classified as postpositions; if > not, they are called locative suffixes). Most of the data are in harmony, > except in two cases: > > 1. You list -can (which I assume to be /ca:n/) as taking a possessive > prefix. I haven't found any examples of this, although I admit I haven't > searched very hard. If I see examples, I'll have to move this morpheme from > my list of locative suffixes to the "postposition" category. Can you give me > a couple of examples, preferably with references to early colonial sources? > (Modern sources won't do, because I'm focusing on central Mexican Nahuatl > from 1521 to 1650.) I suppose your magic Nahuatl machine can make quick work > of this. David: I don't recall seeing /ca:n/ in, say, a simple possessed form such as *tocan but it does appear in *possessed* forms, e.g., ipeuhcan, itzinehcan, etc. Perhaps that is what Joe is getting at when he says "possessed". > > 2. You include -ican, which I don't have on my table in either category. The > "x" in the fourth column means that it would be a postposition as I've > defined this word. I just checked a stack of descriptive sources (Carochi, > Lockhart, Andrews, Launey, Wolf, Karttunen, and Molina's Arte) and couldn't > find this postposition, unless it's something one would see inside of > -i:campa, "behind/beyond," after removing the locative suffix -pa. I would > like to add this morpheme to the table, but to do so I would have to know > where it is found, what it means and if it has any long vowels. Can you give > me a hand with this? I would agree that this is -i:can-pa. Michael > > David > > -----Mensaje original----- > De: Campbell, R. Joe [mailto:campbel at indiana.edu] > Enviado el: jueves, 12 de noviembre de 2009 03:36 p.m. > Para: Michael McCafferty > CC: David Wright; nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > Asunto: Re: [Nahuat-l] Tloc, nahuac, tech, tlan > > Nocnihuan, > > The things we call "postpositions" or "relational nouns" obviously > don't all follow the same distributional map, so I have put a rough one > together. "Rough" means that I consider just a draft, so I won't mind > having mistakes drawn to my attention. > > I include -nahuac in the list in spite of the fact that I know that > it is really a noun with attached -c(o). > > Category 5 (occurs after a noun) has a neutral label in order to > avoid calling fish or fowl (i.e., noun compound or noun suffix). > > Obviously, these categories hint strongly at the noun-like behavior > of these objects of our attention, which goes in the opposite direction > from their frequent spatial and temporal function in the language. > > As Arnie said, "I'll be back." > > Joe > > "postpositions" > > 1 takes a "verber" suffix > 2 embeds in -yo(tl) > 3 takes absolutive > 4 takes a possessive prefix > 5 occurs after a noun > 6 embeds in -eh (e.g., tloqueh) [not included yet in the chart] > > x = yes > > 1 2 3 4 5 > > can x x x x > > co x x > > huan x x > > huic x x x > > ican x x > > nahuac x x x x x > > pa x ? > > pan x x x x x > > pampa x x x > > tech x x x x x > > tlan x x x x x > > tloc x x > > tzalan x x x x x > > > > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx Fri Nov 13 01:52:59 2009 From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 19:52:59 -0600 Subject: Tloc, nahuac, tech, tlan In-Reply-To: <20091112200501.uhyhpbjy8w48gk0c@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: Thanks, Michael. I see Molina (1571: II, 42r) gives "Ipeuhcan en el comienzo, o en el principio, o al principio". That looks like i:peuhca:n /i:pewka:n/ (i: + (pewa - a) + ka:n), 3rd person singular possessive prefix + verb: begin + postposition (?) where/in/in the time of/place of/by. So I guess I can call ca:n a postposition, based on the criteria of it appearing with a possessive prefix (and a verb!), although the example is not as clear as if we had a direct coupling of the prefix with ca:n. It is what it is, of course; the problem is fitting it into a somewhat arbitrary (but useful) classification scheme. -----Mensaje original----- De: Michael McCafferty [mailto:mmccaffe at indiana.edu] Enviado el: jueves, 12 de noviembre de 2009 07:05 p.m. Para: David Wright CC: 'Campbell, R. Joe'; nahuatl at lists.famsi.org Asunto: Re: [Nahuat-l] Tloc, nahuac, tech, tlan [...] David: I don't recall seeing /ca:n/ in, say, a simple possessed form such as *tocan but it does appear in *possessed* forms, e.g., ipeuhcan, itzinehcan, etc. Perhaps that is what Joe is getting at when he says "possessed". [...] _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx Fri Nov 13 02:04:57 2009 From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 20:04:57 -0600 Subject: Redundant posts Message-ID: Sorry for the repeat posts. They've been bouncing back to me in illegible form so I changed the character code settings to make sure the messages get through. _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Fri Nov 13 02:18:53 2009 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 21:18:53 -0500 Subject: Tloc, nahuac, tech, tlan In-Reply-To: <000201ca6404$079d3330$16d79990$@net.mx> Message-ID: Quoting David Wright : > Thanks, Michael. Sure, David. I see Molina (1571: II, 42r) gives "Ipeuhcan en el > comienzo, o en el principio, o al principio". That looks like i:peuhca:n > /i:pewka:n/ (i: + (pewa - a) + ka:n), 3rd person singular possessive prefix > + verb: begin + postposition (?) where/in/in the time of/place of/by. A better translation would be "en su principio, a su principio". That's also the basic meaning of "itzinehcan," where the i- is 3rd singular possessor prefix. So I > guess I can call ca:n a postposition, based on the criteria of it appearing > with a possessive prefix (and a verb!), although the example is not as clear > as if we had a direct coupling of the prefix with ca:n. It is what it is, of > course; the problem is fitting it into a somewhat arbitrary (but useful) > classification scheme. I think a classification (albeit predictably huge) according to Martin's idea would be great: "But there is another intresting question with regard to these words. Some of them can have relatively similar meanings. Do you know whether it is possible to tell whether such Rel.Nouns differ with regard to the nouns they 'govern'? Such that we could state rules like e.g.: "The suffix -c(o) expresses locative meaning with nouns like A, B, C etc., whereas the same meaning is expressed by means of the (quasi synonym) Rel.Noun -pan with nouns as D, E, F. etc." Michael > > -----Mensaje original----- > De: Michael McCafferty [mailto:mmccaffe at indiana.edu] Enviado el: jueves, 12 > de noviembre de 2009 07:05 p.m. > Para: David Wright > CC: 'Campbell, R. Joe'; nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > Asunto: Re: [Nahuat-l] Tloc, nahuac, tech, tlan > > [...] > > David: > > I don't recall seeing /ca:n/ in, say, a simple possessed form such as *tocan > but it does appear in *possessed* forms, e.g., ipeuhcan, itzinehcan, etc. > Perhaps that is what Joe is getting at when he says "possessed". > > [...] > > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From campbel at indiana.edu Fri Nov 13 04:49:25 2009 From: campbel at indiana.edu (Campbell, R. Joe) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 23:49:25 -0500 Subject: Tloc, nahuac, tech, tlan In-Reply-To: <000301ca63f1$d3a75ef0$7af61cd0$@net.mx> Message-ID: David ihuan occequi nocnihuan, > 1. You list -can (which I assume to be /ca:n/) as taking a possessive > prefix. I haven't found any examples of this, although I admit I haven't > searched very hard. If I see examples, I'll have to move this morpheme from > my list of locative suffixes to the "postposition" category. Can you give me > a couple of examples, preferably with references to early colonial sources? > (Modern sources won't do, because I'm focusing on central Mexican Nahuatl > from 1521 to 1650.) I suppose your magic Nahuatl machine can make quick work > of this. > This is an example of sloppy matrix construction and eagle-eyed reading!! Thank you, David, for catching the error. I can't say it won't happen again because it probably will. I will get back to the issue (and I don't mean "problem", as many mod speakers do nowadays) when I gather my data. > 2. You include -ican, which I don't have on my table in either category. The > "x" in the fourth column means that it would be a postposition as I've > defined this word. I just checked a stack of descriptive sources (Carochi, > Lockhart, Andrews, Launey, Wolf, Karttunen, and Molina's Arte) and couldn't > find this postposition, unless it's something one would see inside of > -i:campa, "behind/beyond," after removing the locative suffix -pa. I would > like to add this morpheme to the table, but to do so I would have to know > where it is found, what it means and if it has any long vowels. Can you give > me a hand with this? > > David > I try to be extremely careful about vowel length in the notation of morphemes in the data, but I am sloppy in discussion. "i:can" has a long vowel. Andrews has it in the glossary of his first edition and Fran has "i:campa", which I think is reasonable for the bulk of the data. There are some items which motivate separating i:can and pa and I have included them in the list below. "niteicanihtoa" is one of them -- I gossip about someone, I mention someone behind his back. But "tlaicanhuiani" is my favorite, probably because of a personal memory. When I first met a very good friend of mine (a native speaker of Nahuatl), we walked along talking about Nahuatl stuff and I mentioned the word "nimitztoca" (I follow you) and he said that that wasn't how to say it. He said (in my iconic memory moment), "nimitzicanhuia" ('I provide you with "ican" [behind]). I didn't expect this to show up in the 16th century, since I considered it a later dynamic development in Nahuatl, but since "tlaicanhuiani" *does* appear, why are there not other similar forms? All the best, Joe *i:can *** campa =tepetl i. allende la sierra. . 71m1-2| cemicampa. . . b.4 f.7 p.63| icampa. . . b.2 f.3 p.76| icampa. alas espaldas, o detras del; detras de algo. . 71m2-6| icampa , [i]-. behind him. . b.5 f.2 p.179| icampa , i-. behind him. . b.11 f.13 p.137| icampa , im-. behind them. . b.2 f.1 p.50| icampa , m[o]-. behind you. . b.1 f.1 p.27| icampa , te-. behind others. . b.4 f.7 p.67| icampa =n. detras de mi. . 71m1-8| icampa =no= [scribal error: note nicampa analysed as ni-icampa instead of n[o]-icampa: 71m2]. detras de mi. . 71m2-6| icampa =te. detras de alguno; o ensu ausencia. . 71m1- 8| icampa =te=. detras de algunos. . 71m2-6| icampa =tepetl. allende la sierra; o detras dela sierra. . 55m-00| icampa =tla. allende la sierra; atras; detras de algo; allende los montes; sierras; o puertos; tras. preposicion. . 55m- 00| icampa =to. detras de nosotros, o alas espaldas; hazia tras; trasera parte; traspera parte. . 71m2-19| icampa. behind her; behind him; behind his back; behind it. . b.2 f.7 p.120| icampahuetz =o. descargado assi (assi is descargarse de algun oficio). . 55m-5| icampahuetzi =n. descargarse de algun oficio. . 55m-5| icampahuihtiuh =te. zabullidor. . 71m1-6| icampayotl =tla. cosa de allende los montes, o sierras; parte trasera; trasera cosa. . 71m2-21| icanhuiani =tla. el que va tras otros, acompa?ando los. . 71m2-21| icanihtoa =nite. murmurar. . 71m1-16| icanihtoa =nite=oniteicanito. murmurar delos ausentes. . 71m2-6| icanihtoani =te. murmurador. . 71m2-16| icanihtoh =te. murmurador. . 71m2-16| icanihtoliztli =te. murmuracion. . 71m2-16| ihcuilolli =icampa tla. escriptura enlas espaldas; escriptura en las espaldas. . 55m-8| ihcuilolli =tlaicampa tla. escriptura enlas espaldas; escriptura en las espaldas. . 55m-8| teicanihtoa =nite=oniteteicanito. detraer, o murmurar de otros. . 71m2-16| tepetl =icampa in. desotra parte de la sierra; dela otra parte dela sierra; tras la sierra. . 71m1- 8| tlachia =nicampa ni. mirar atras. . 55m-14| tlahcuilolli =icampa. escriptura en las espaldas dela carta o libro. . 71m2-6| tlaza =nicampa nic. echar hazia tras; echar algo haziatras. . 55m-7| count 74 _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mwswanton at yahoo.com Fri Nov 13 04:53:36 2009 From: mwswanton at yahoo.com (Michael Swanton) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 20:53:36 -0800 Subject: Tloc, nahuac, tech, tlan In-Reply-To: <20091110181802.2d727jhaasws0gso@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: One linguistic phenomena being discussed here--certain stems that behave as nouns with regard to inflection but are always (or almost always) oblique arguments--seems to be quite common in Mesoamerican languages. Among linguists working in Mesoamerica, the term "relational noun" is frequently used to refer to this. I believe this usage originated among Mayanists. --- On Tue, 11/10/09, Michael McCafferty wrote: From: Michael McCafferty Subject: Re: [Nahuat-l] Tloc, nahuac, tech, tlan To: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 6:18 PM Quoting David Wright : > Susana: > > > > As far as I can see, in early colonial central Mexican Nahuatl -tloc, > -na:huac, -tech (preceded by the ligature -ti- when the noun it follows ends > in a consonant), and -tlan (preceded by the ligature -ti- in place names) > are postpositions; -tla:n (never with -ti-) is a locative suffix. tla:n is usually seen place names. It's not that common otherwise. > Postpositions are like English prepositions in that they express relations > (spatial, temporal, and other sorts), and have been labeled as such because > of their similar function, and the fact that they are added to the end of > nouns. Postpositions can also be added to possessive prefixes; the existence > of examples where the latter happens is what distinguishes postpositions > from locative or other sorts of suffixes. This is why -tla:n is usually > labeled as a locative suffix: it?s not found stuck to a possessive prefix. > To label a morpheme a ?locative suffix? is a risky proposition, since if an > example can be provided of it being attached to a possessive prefix, then we > would be forced to move it to the category of postpositions. > > > > Colonial grammarians (Andr?s de Olmos, Alonso Molina, Horacio Carochi, and > others) called postpositions ?preposiciones? in spite of their place and the > end of words. The earliest use of the term ?postposition? (or its cognates > in French or Spanish) that I?ve seen is in the grammatical sketch by Sim?on, > published in 1885. Others have followed this practice, including ?ngel Mar?a > Garibay, Thelma Sullivan, Joe Campbell, and Frances Karttunen. Richard > Andrews preferred to call them ?relational suffixes? in 1975 and now prefers > the phrase ?relational NNC? (NNC = ?nominal nuclear clause?). Lockhart calls > them ?relational words.? > It's a convenience to refer to such entities as "postpositions". However, Andrews demonstrates that such a view is, as it puts it, "ethnocentric (or 'linguicentric')". This is of course one of Andrews' fortes, explaining Nahuatl from within rather from without (i.e., from a European language point of view. English grammar has suffered a somewhat similar fate in having been analyzed in the past through the lens of Latin grammar.) As Andrews explains, what we like to term "postpositions" for convenience sake are in truth noun stems "used to form adverbialized NNCs." This is not to say that we can't continue to call them "postpositions," but they are truly not postpositions. Michael > > > The classic example of postpositions behaving like nouns is the name of the > Nahua deity Tloqueh Na:huaqueh, ?owner of that which is together, owner of > that which is near?, a ubiquitous, invisible being. Here the > ?postpositions?, exceptionally, come first, adding the singular possessive > suffix -eh. The final c in both cases becomes qu because of a Spanish > spelling convention, both being /k/. > > > > Alonso Molina?s Arte de la lengua mexicana y castellana (1571), chapter 6 > (folios 74r-80v), has a good treatment of postpositions combined with > possessive prefixes. An example is notlan (the first person singular > possessive prefix no- plus the postposition -tlan). Rather than ?my with? > (which of course doesn?t make sense in English), notlan means ?with me?. > > > > As for possible translations, I?ve compiled a list for each postposition (or > in the case of -tla:n, locative suffix), putting together all of the > possibilities I?ve found in a variety of colonial and modern sources. Since > most of these are in Spanish, I?ll leave them in this language, to avoid the > double distortion we would have if I were to translate them into English. > > > > Postpositions: > > > > -tloc > > al lado de/cerca de/con/junto a > > > > -na:huac (na:hua + (co - o)) > > al lado de/cerca de/con/en compa??a de/en la vecindad de/junto a > > > > -tech > > a/adherido a/con/de/en/en contacto con/entre/incorporado a/junto a/sobre > > > > -tlan > > al lado de/cerca de/con/debajo de/en/en compa??a de/en el interior > de/entre/junto a > > > > Locative suffix: > > > > -tla:n > > con/en/entre/junto a/lugar de > > > > As you mentioned, there?s a lot of semantic overlap. I guess the next step > would be to observe their use in early colonial texts to get a better grasp > of how they were used. > > > > I hope this helps clear things up. > > > > Best wishes, > > > > David > > > > De: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org [mailto:nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org] > En nombre de Susana Moraleda > Enviado el: martes, 10 de noviembre de 2009 01:50 p.m. > Para: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > Asunto: [Nahuat-l] Tloc, nahuac, tech, tlan > > > > > > I'm a bit confused on the uses of TLOC, NAHUAC, TECH and TLAN since they all > have similar meanings.? I've consulted Garibay, Sullivan and Horcasitas, but > the differences are not clear. > > ?? ? ? ???TLOC and NAHUAC are synonyms and mean "junto a", "cerca de". > > ?? ? ? ???TECH means "en", "pegado o adherente a", "referente a". > > ?? ? ? ???(TI)TLAN means "en", "entre", "con", "junto a", "cerca de". And > besides, Garibay says "sobre", while Sullivan says "debajo"!!! > > Are there any rules saying when to use which? > > > > Thanks for any thoughts. > > > > Susana > > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mwswanton at yahoo.com Fri Nov 13 05:54:14 2009 From: mwswanton at yahoo.com (Michael Swanton) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 21:54:14 -0800 Subject: nahuatl colors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Magnus, I do not believe B&K state that BCTs cannot be derived from any other word. Rather they say that BCTs must be monolexemic and therefore not predictable from the meanings of their parts. Under this criterion they exclude ?lemon-colored? as a BTC, but not ?orange?. Regards, Mike --- On Tue, 11/10/09, Magnus Pharao Hansen wrote: From: Magnus Pharao Hansen Subject: [Nahuat-l] nahuatl colors To: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 1:16 PM Hi Listeros Just wanted to chip in on the color topic, albeit a little belatedly. I have worked with color terminology studies in the past and done a small pilot survey in Hueyapan. I thought it would be worth it to mention that in fact the most interesting thing about Nahuatlo colourterminology is that according to the criteria of Paul Kay and Brent Berlin in their "Basic Color Terms" Nahuatl could be one of the only languages in the world not to have any true color terms! According to Berlin and Kay all languages have between two and eleven basic color terms, in a predictable order, i.e. if it has three it has black, white and red, if it has five it has those three plus yellow and either green or blue etc.? What's interesting is that among the criteria is that a basic color term is not derived from anyother word - the term must be exclusively related to color. That means that e.g. "lemon" for lemon green is not a basic color term, but a secondary one. As you have probably noticed in Nahuatl all colorterms could be argued to be secondary (arguably not kostik and kapotstik, which are probably derived, but from words we don't know). The fact that Nahuatl doesn't have any roots (other than kapots- and kos- if we accept them) specficially and exclusively referring to color properties makes it a very special language. Oh and btw. one of my consultants from Hueyapan who is always good at making up folketymologies did translate kamohpaltik as "no est? mojado". In Hueyapan the purple color is called simply kamohtik. Magnus Pharao Hansen -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From idiez at me.com Fri Nov 13 04:07:58 2009 From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan, Ph.D.) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 22:07:58 -0600 Subject: oncahuia, excahuia. Message-ID: Piyali Listeros, In Modern Huastecan Nahuatl "oncahuia" means "for two people to approach or gang up on s.o." and "excahuia" means "for three people to approach of gang up on s.o." Assuming this is the "-huia" suffix that forms transitive verbs from a noun root, meaning "to use, apply or produce the embedded noun with respect to s.o. or s.t., it looks like "onca-" and "exca-" are being treated as nouns. We know that "onca-" has "ome", "two", and "exca-" has "eyi", "three". So what is the "- ca"? We also have "nechcahuia", "to approach s.o. or s.t.", and this comes from "nechca", "close, near". Andrews would say that this is the relational "-ca", used for "nechca" and "huehca", meaning "interval of space". It would seem that the "-ca" of "oncahuia" and "excahuia" would either be this relational morpheme of "interval", or perhaps it could be the "-ca" that allows us to add things to preterite agentives. So does this mean that Nahuatl numbers have a verbal origin? John _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx Fri Nov 13 15:10:32 2009 From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright) Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 09:10:32 -0600 Subject: Tloc, nahuac, tech, tlan In-Reply-To: <20091112234925.4vxd8mdj6ec0oc4w@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: Te:machtia:ni, tlazohca:mati. -----Mensaje original----- De: Campbell, R. Joe [mailto:campbel at indiana.edu] Enviado el: jueves, 12 de noviembre de 2009 10:49 p.m. Para: David Wright CC: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org Asunto: RE: [Nahuat-l] Tloc, nahuac, tech, tlan David ihuan occequi nocnihuan, > 1. You list -can (which I assume to be /ca:n/) as taking a possessive > prefix. I haven't found any examples of this, although I admit I haven't > searched very hard. If I see examples, I'll have to move this morpheme from > my list of locative suffixes to the "postposition" category. Can you give me > a couple of examples, preferably with references to early colonial sources? > (Modern sources won't do, because I'm focusing on central Mexican Nahuatl > from 1521 to 1650.) I suppose your magic Nahuatl machine can make quick work > of this. > This is an example of sloppy matrix construction and eagle-eyed reading!! Thank you, David, for catching the error. I can't say it won't happen again because it probably will. I will get back to the issue (and I don't mean "problem", as many mod speakers do nowadays) when I gather my data. > 2. You include -ican, which I don't have on my table in either category. The > "x" in the fourth column means that it would be a postposition as I've > defined this word. I just checked a stack of descriptive sources (Carochi, > Lockhart, Andrews, Launey, Wolf, Karttunen, and Molina's Arte) and couldn't > find this postposition, unless it's something one would see inside of > -i:campa, "behind/beyond," after removing the locative suffix -pa. I would > like to add this morpheme to the table, but to do so I would have to know > where it is found, what it means and if it has any long vowels. Can you give > me a hand with this? > > David > I try to be extremely careful about vowel length in the notation of morphemes in the data, but I am sloppy in discussion. "i:can" has a long vowel. Andrews has it in the glossary of his first edition and Fran has "i:campa", which I think is reasonable for the bulk of the data. There are some items which motivate separating i:can and pa and I have included them in the list below. "niteicanihtoa" is one of them -- I gossip about someone, I mention someone behind his back. But "tlaicanhuiani" is my favorite, probably because of a personal memory. When I first met a very good friend of mine (a native speaker of Nahuatl), we walked along talking about Nahuatl stuff and I mentioned the word "nimitztoca" (I follow you) and he said that that wasn't how to say it. He said (in my iconic memory moment), "nimitzicanhuia" ('I provide you with "ican" [behind]). I didn't expect this to show up in the 16th century, since I considered it a later dynamic development in Nahuatl, but since "tlaicanhuiani" *does* appear, why are there not other similar forms? All the best, Joe *i:can *** campa =tepetl i. allende la sierra. . 71m1-2| cemicampa. . . b.4 f.7 p.63| icampa. . . b.2 f.3 p.76| icampa. alas espaldas, o detras del; detras de algo. . 71m2-6| icampa , [i]-. behind him. . b.5 f.2 p.179| icampa , i-. behind him. . b.11 f.13 p.137| icampa , im-. behind them. . b.2 f.1 p.50| icampa , m[o]-. behind you. . b.1 f.1 p.27| icampa , te-. behind others. . b.4 f.7 p.67| icampa =n. detras de mi. . 71m1-8| icampa =no= [scribal error: note nicampa analysed as ni-icampa instead of n[o]-icampa: 71m2]. detras de mi. . 71m2-6| icampa =te. detras de alguno; o ensu ausencia. . 71m1- 8| icampa =te=. detras de algunos. . 71m2-6| icampa =tepetl. allende la sierra; o detras dela sierra. . 55m-00| icampa =tla. allende la sierra; atras; detras de algo; allende los montes; sierras; o puertos; tras. preposicion. . 55m- 00| icampa =to. detras de nosotros, o alas espaldas; hazia tras; trasera parte; traspera parte. . 71m2-19| icampa. behind her; behind him; behind his back; behind it. . b.2 f.7 p.120| icampahuetz =o. descargado assi (assi is descargarse de algun oficio). . 55m-5| icampahuetzi =n. descargarse de algun oficio. . 55m-5| icampahuihtiuh =te. zabullidor. . 71m1-6| icampayotl =tla. cosa de allende los montes, o sierras; parte trasera; trasera cosa. . 71m2-21| icanhuiani =tla. el que va tras otros, acompa?ando los. . 71m2-21| icanihtoa =nite. murmurar. . 71m1-16| icanihtoa =nite=oniteicanito. murmurar delos ausentes. . 71m2-6| icanihtoani =te. murmurador. . 71m2-16| icanihtoh =te. murmurador. . 71m2-16| icanihtoliztli =te. murmuracion. . 71m2-16| ihcuilolli =icampa tla. escriptura enlas espaldas; escriptura en las espaldas. . 55m-8| ihcuilolli =tlaicampa tla. escriptura enlas espaldas; escriptura en las espaldas. . 55m-8| teicanihtoa =nite=oniteteicanito. detraer, o murmurar de otros. . 71m2-16| tepetl =icampa in. desotra parte de la sierra; dela otra parte dela sierra; tras la sierra. . 71m1- 8| tlachia =nicampa ni. mirar atras. . 55m-14| tlahcuilolli =icampa. escriptura en las espaldas dela carta o libro. . 71m2-6| tlaza =nicampa nic. echar hazia tras; echar algo haziatras. . 55m-7| count 74 _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From campbel at indiana.edu Fri Nov 13 19:03:12 2009 From: campbel at indiana.edu (Campbell, R. Joe) Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 14:03:12 -0500 Subject: Tloc, nahuac, tech, tlan In-Reply-To: <001501ca6473$72f9a360$58ecea20$@net.mx> Message-ID: To get back to status of -ca:n occurring in the possessed form (like ihuan, itech, ihuic, etc.), that "x" just jumped into the matrix on me. |8-) I'm sending of list of some "poss + pret-verb + ca:n" constructions. Some of the repetitions are due to repetitions in the sources. Some of them may be due to my stripping off possessive prefixes and indexing the forms in both places. Joe canahuacan =to. las sienes. [poss-cana:hua-ca:n] 71m2-25. canahuacan =to. sienes parte dela cabeza. [poss-cana:hua-ca:n] 71m1- 19. canahuacan =to. sienes parte dela cabeza. [poss-cana:hua-ca:n] 55m- 18. cocohpozteccan =to. la nuez dela garganta. [poss-co:cohtli-poztequi- ca:n] 71m2-25. cuacacalaccan =to. la calua o las entradas dela frente. [poss-cua:itl- dupl-calaqui-prt1-ca:n] 71m2-26. cuecuelpachiuhcan =to. los hijares. [poss-dupl-cue:lli-pachihui-prt1- ca:n] 71m2-25. cuecuelpachiuhcan =to. yjares. [poss-dupl-cue:lli-pachihui-prt1-ca:n] 71m1-13. cuecuelpachiuhcan =to. yjares. [poss-dupl-cue:lli-pachihui-prt1-ca:n] 55m-11. cuelpachiuhcan =to. hijada. [poss-cue:lli-pachihui-prt1-ca:n] 71m1- 13. cuelpachiuhcan =to. los hijares o la hijada parte del cuerpo. [poss- cue:lli-pachihui-prt1-ca:n] 71m2-25. cuelpachiuhcan =to. yjada parte del cuerpo. [poss-cue:lli-pachihui- prt1-ca:n] 55m-11. cuelpachiuhcan =to. yjada, parte del cuerpo. [poss-cue:lli-pachihui- prt1-ca:n] 71m1-13. icanahuacan. his temples. [poss-cana:hua-ca:n] FC. icanahuacan. on his temples. [poss-cana:hua-ca:n] FC. icanahuacan. on the side of its head. [poss-cana:hua-ca:n] FC. icanahuacan. on the sides of its head. [poss-cana:hua-ca:n] FC. iciauhca. place of fatigue. [poss-ciahui1-ca:n] FC. iciauhcan. place of someone's fatigue. [poss-ciahui1-prt1-ca:n] FC. iciauhcan. place of weariness. [poss-ciahui1-prt1-ca:n] FC. icuapitzahuacan. its tip. [poss-cua:itl-pitza:hua-ca:n] FC. iixhuacan. its sprouting place. [poss-ixhua-ca:n] FC. imo[i]lpilican. its binding place. [poss-p54-ilpia:-ben-ca:n] FC. incanahuacan. on their temples. [poss-cana:hua-ca:n] FC. incanahuacan. their temples. [poss-cana:hua-ca:n] FC. inelhuayocan. the place of its roots. [poss-nelhuatl-yo:tl1-ca:n] FC. inquizcan. their native land. [poss-qui:za-prt1-ca:n] FC. inyolcan. their native land. [poss-yo:lli-v13=0-prt1-ca:n] FC. ipeuhcan. its beginning. [poss-pe:hua-prt1-ca:n] FC. iteohpouhcan. place of his affliction. [poss-teo:tl--ca:n] FC. iteopouhca. place of his affliction. [poss-teo:tl-po:hua2-prt1-ca:n +del.n] FC. iteopouhcan. his place of affliction. [poss-teo:tl-po:hua2-prt1-ca:n] FC. iteopouhcan. place of his affliction. [poss-teo:tl-po:hua2-prt1-ca:n] FC. itetecuitzauhca. its asperous place. [poss-dupl-tecui:ni-tza-l2-v03b- prt1-ca:n +del.n] FC. itoneuhcan. . [poss-to:ne:hua-ca:n] FC. itzmolincan =xocomecatl i. yema de vid. [xocotl-mecatl poss-itzmoli:ni- prt1-ca:n +poss.phr] 71m1-13. itzmolincan =xocomecatl i. yema de vid. [xocotl-mecatl poss-itzmoli:ni- prt1-ca:n +poss.phr] 55m-11. ixxoxomoliuhcan =to. los lagrimales. [poss-i:xtli-dupl-xomolli-v03a- prt1-ca:n] 71m2-19. mamacauhcan in tlaximalli =i. espacio de entre viga y viga en lo que esta maderado. [poss-dupl-ma:itl-ca:hui-caus09-ca:n in p51-xi:ma- l1] 71m2-7. mochialoca. your place for waiting, for holding vigil. [poss-chiya- lo:2-ca:n +del.n] FC. mo[i]cnochialoca. your humble waiting place. [poss-icno:tl-chiya-lo:2- ca:n +del.n] FC. nenehuixca =ahcan te. cosa que no tiene par o ygual. [ah1-ca:n poss- dupl-nehui-prt1-ca:5] 71m2-1. nenehuixca =ahcan te. no tener par ni^ygual. [ah1-ca:n poss-dupl-nehui- prt1-ca:5] 71m1-16. peuhcan =i. enel comienzo, o enel principio, o al principio. [poss- pe:hua-prt1-ca:n] 71m2-7. tlaohuican. dangerous place, difficult place. [poss-ohuia:-prt1-ca:n tla7] FC. tlaohuican. dangerous place. [poss-ohuia:-prt1-ca:n tla7] FC. tlaohuican. dangerous place, difficult place. [poss-ohuia:-prt1-ca:n tla7] FC. tlaohuican. difficult place, dangerous place. [poss-ohuia:-prt1-ca:n tla7] FC. tocamachalacaliuhca. grooved part of the lower jaw. [poss-camatl- challi-a:tl1-calli-v03a-prt1-ca:n] FC. tocanahuaca. our temples. [poss-cana:hua-ca:n] FC. tocanahuacan. our temple. [poss-cana:hua-ca:n] FC. tocohcototzauhca. our folding places. [poss-dupl-cototztli-v03b-prt1- ca:n +del.n] FC. tocohcototzauhca. our folding. [poss-dupl-cototztli-v03b-prt1-ca:n +del.n] FC. tocototzauhca. our folding place. [poss-cototztli-v03b-prt1-ca:n +del.n] FC. tocototzauhca. our folding. [poss-cototztli-v03b-prt1-ca:n +del.n] FC. t[o]ixmotzoliuhca. gripping place of our face. [poss-i:xtli-motzolli- v03a-prt1-ca:n] FC. tomohmotzoliuhca. our gripping places. [poss-dupl-motzolli-v03a-prt1- ca:n] FC. tomomotzoliuhca. our gripping places. [poss-dupl-motzolli-v03a-prt1- ca:n] FC. tomotzoliuhca. our gripping place. [poss-motzolli-v03a-prt1-ca:n] FC. totlanitzpitzahuaca. slender part of our shank. [poss-tlani:tztli- pitza:hua-ca:n +del.n] FC. toxocpalpitzahuaca. our arch. [poss-xotl1-icpatl-l3-pitza:hua-ca:n +del.n] FC. toxopitzahuaca. slender part of our leg. [poss-xotl1-pitza:hua-ca:n +del.n] FC. toyacapitzahuaca. thin part of our nose. [poss-yacatl-pitza:hua-ca:n +del.n] FC. tozaliuhca. our joint. [poss-za:lli-v03a-prt1-ca:n +del.n] FC. tozazaliuhca. our joints. [poss-dupl-za:lli-v03a-prt1-ca:n +del.n] FC. tozazaliuhcan. our joint. [poss-dupl-za:lli-v03a-prt1-ca:n] FC. tzinehcan =i. al principio, s, quando comence a hazer algo. [poss- tzi:ntli-eh1-ca:n +ev.verb.23x] 71m1-2. xocpalhuacaliuhcan =to. la puente dela planta del pie. [poss-xotl1- icpatl-l3-huacalli-v03a-prt1-ca:n] 71m2-26. yahualiuhcan =tla. al derredor. [poss-yahualli-v03a-prt1-ca:n] 71m2- 21. _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From idiez at me.com Sat Nov 14 15:24:40 2009 From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan, Ph.D.) Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 09:24:40 -0600 Subject: Ceyoc tlamahuizolli tlen IDIEZ Message-ID: Piyali Listeros, Ticcalaquihqueh ce yancuic tlamahuizolli pan youtube, huan itocah "Motlamacah". John _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From idiez at me.com Wed Nov 18 13:03:41 2009 From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan, Ph.D.) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 07:03:41 -0600 Subject: scholarships for IDIEZ Message-ID: Piyali Listeros: In my never-ending search for ways to provide scholarships for the Nahua college students who work with us at IDIEZ, I have come up with the following idea. For a tax-deductible donation of 100 dollars per month (which will provide a scholarship to one of our native speaking students) you (and as many people as you can fit in front of your webcam) can work with this student individually via Skype video on topics related to Nahua language and culture for up to three hours per week. Anyone interested can contact me at idiez at me.com. John John Sullivan, Ph.D. Professor of Nahua language and culture Universidad Aut?noma de Zacatecas Zacatecas Institute of Teaching and Research in Ethnology Tacuba 152, int. 43 Centro Hist?rico Zacatecas, Zac. 98000 Mexico Work: +52 (492) 925-3415 Fax: +1 (858) 724-3030 (U.S.A.) Home: +52 (492) 768-6048 Mobile: +52 1 (492) 103-0195 idiez at me.com www.macehualli.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From campbel at indiana.edu Fri Nov 20 18:33:35 2009 From: campbel at indiana.edu (Campbell, R. Joe) Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 13:33:35 -0500 Subject: Tloc, nahuac, tech, tlan In-Reply-To: <000301ca63f1$d3a75ef0$7af61cd0$@net.mx> Message-ID: David, Michael, ihuan occequi Nocnihuan, The "postposition" topic is a mind-grabber. My list for the noun function includes the following: 1. base for verber suffix. 2. embeds as adverb in verbs (just as "real" nouns do). 3. takes further postposition (e.g., nepantlah). 4. takes negative prefix (like noun and verb stems [e.g., ahcan, ahhuic]). 5. takes plural suffix (e.g., nehuantin). I include some collected examples of the first three categories below and I would appreciate helpful comments. Joe *post.as.noun.1 *** amanepaniuhqui. plaited with paper. . b.9 f.1 p.5| anepanolli. ayuntamiento de rios; ayuntamiento de rios o de aguas; ayuntamiento de aguas que entran en alguna parte. . 55m-00| cahcalnepanoltia , nino-. I build houses in two parts for myself. . b.11 f.26 p.275| calnepanoa , ni-. I erect a house upon another one. . b.11 f.26 p.275| calnepanolli. sobrado de casa. . 55m-18| calnepanolli. two story house. . b.11 f.26 p.274| calnepanolmelactli. sala alta; sala alta y larga. k +post.as.noun.1>. 55m-18| calnepanolquetza , ni-. I erect a house upon another one. . b.11 f.26 p.275| calnepanoltia , nino-. I provide myself a house upon another one. . b.11 f.26 p.275| cennenepanoliztica =tla. mezcladamente. . 55m-13| cennepanoa =nitla. encorporar o mezclar vna cosa con otra; mesturar; mezclar. . 71m1- 9| cennepanoa =nitla=onitlacennepanoh. . . 71m2-3| cennepanoliztli =tla. mezcla assi (assi is mezcladamente). . 55m-13| cennepanolli =tla. cosa rebuelta y mezclada con otra, o con otras; mesturada cosa; mezclada cosa. . 71m2-20| chiucnauhnepaniuhca. . . b.6 f.14 p.175| chiucnauhnepaniuhcan. . . b.6 f.14 p.176| epnepaniuhcayo. having crossing bands of seashells. . b.12 f.1 p.15| epnepaniuhqui. crossed with seashells; something which is set with pearls. . b.12 f.1 p.10| hualnepanoa , nic-. I come to join it. . b.11 f.26 p.267| huitoliuhcanepaniuhqui. cruzero; crucero. . 55m-4| huitoliuhcanepanolli. cruzero. . 55m-4| huitoliuhcanepanolli [scribal error: ??printing error: vitoliuhcaneponolli for vitoliuhcanepanolli: 71m1]. crucero. . 71m1-6| icanhuiani =tla. el que va tras otros, acompa?ando los. . 71m2-21| icxinetechhuia =nino [[ocxinetechuia =nin]]. cutir el vn touillo con el otro caminando, i, herir o ludir el vn touillo con el otro lastimandose. x +a>i>. 71m1-6| icxinetechhuia =nino=oninocxinetechhuih. ludir el vn^touillo conel otro lastimandose el que camina. x +a>i>. 71m2-6| ixnepanilhuia =nitetla=onitetlaixnepanilhuih. aforrar algo a otro. . 71m2- 8| ixnepanoa =nite=oniteixnepanoh. encontrarse cara a^cara el varon conla muger sin aduertir enello. . 71m2-8| ixnepanoa =nitla. aforrar algo; doblar o aforrar algo; enforrar vestidura. . 55m-00| ixnepanoa =nitla=onitlaixnepanoh. aforrar algo, o doblar la manta, o juntar la vna conla otra. . 71m2-8| ixnepanolli =tla. aforrada cosa; cosa aforrada; o cosa juntada vna con otra; doblada cosa assi (assi is doblar o aforrar algo); enforrada assi (assi is enforrar vestidura). . 55m-00| mahtlactlanepanolli. ten divisions. . b.10 f.10 p.169| manepanoa =nino. desposarse; iuntar las manos. . 55m-6| manepanoa =nino=oninomanepanoh. casarse, desposarse, o juntar las manos. . 71m2-9| manepanoa =nite. desposar a otro; desposar o casar. . 55m-6| manepanoa =nite=onitemanepanoh. casar a otros, o juntarles las manos. . 71m2-9| manepanohqui =mo. desposado. . 55m-6| manepanohqui =mo [scribal error: ??printing error: momanepanoquimonamictiqui for momanepanoqui. monamictiqui; porrua and 1944 facsimile have the same error; 1555 has momanepanoqui. monamictiqui: 71m1]. desposado. . 71m1-8| manepanohqui =mo. desposado o desposada. . 71m2-10| manepanoliztli =ne. desposorio. . 71m1-8| namictihqui =mo [scribal error: ??printing error: momanepanoquimonamictiqui for momanepanoqui. monamictiqui; porrua and 1944 facsimile have the same error; 1555 has momanepanoqui. monamictiqui: 71m1]. desposado. . 71m1-8| nenepanilhuia =nictla. diferentes y diuersas medicinas aplicar a la enfermedad que va creciendo. . 71m1-8| nenepaniuhqui. . . b.12 f.1 p.10| nenepaniuhtica. crossing each other. . b.11 f.23 p.235| nenepaniuhtoc. it is intercrossed. . b.6 f.5 p.53| nenepanoa , mo-. they join together. . b.11 f.24 p.248| nenepanoa =nitla. encorporar o mezclar vna cosa con otra; mesturar; mezclar. . 71m1- 9| nenepanoa =nitla=onitlanenepanoh. juntar mezclar, o reboluer vna cosa con otra. . 71m2- 12| nenepanoaya , qui-. they joined it together. . b.2 f.9 p.157| nenepanohtihuetzi , mo-. . . b.3 f.2 p.28| nenepanohtoqueh , mo-. they lay mixed up. . b.12 f.5 p.72| nenepanoliztica =tla. mezcladamente. . 55m-13| nenepanoliztli =tla. mezcla assi (assi is mezcladamente). . 55m-13| nenepanolli =tla. mesturada cosa; mezclada cosa. . 55m-13| nenepanolli. assorted; mixed; mixed together. . b.10 f.4 p.70| nenepantic. joined together. . b.11 f.20 p.199| nepanhuia =nic. mercar en vno. . 55m-13| nepanhuihqueh , qui-. . . b.12 f.5 p.73| nepanihui in notlahtol =ahmo huel. discordar en lo que se dize. . 55m-20| nepanihui in totlahtol =ahmo. discordar en parecer o voto; discordia en dar pareceres o votos; dissension. . 55m-6| nepanilhuia =nitetla. doblar la pena. . 55m-6| nepanilhuia =nitetla [[tlanepanilhuia =nite]]. doblar la pena y el castigo. . 71m1-8| nepanilhuia =nitetla=onitetlanepanilhuih. castigar a otro con doblado castigo. . 71m2-12| nepanilhuia =tictla. tirar dos juntamente y acertar ambos alo que tiran. . 55m- 19| nepaniuhca =i. iunta de dos rios. . 55m-11| nepaniuhca in cruz =i. el brazo dela cruz. . 71m2-7| nepaniuhca in ome atoyatl =i. junta de dos rios. . 71m2-7| nepaniuhcatlatzacuiltia =nite. doblar la pena; doblar la pena y el castigo. . 55m-6| nepaniuhcatlatzacuiltia =nite=onitenepaniuhcatlatzacuiltih. castigar a otro con doblado castigo. . 71m2-12| nepaniuhqui. crosswoven; interspersed. . b.10 f.11 p.180| nepaniuhtoc. it is intercrossed. . b.6 f.3 p.30| nepanoa , con-. it joins it; it places it together. . b.11 f.26 p.267| nepanoa , mo-. it is joined, it is added; they join in. . b.7 f.2 p.25| nepanoa , nic-. I join it. . b.11 f.26 p.267| nepanoa , nocon-. I join it. . b.11 f.26 p.267| nepanoa =nite. ayuntarse carnalmente a muger; ayuntarse carnalmente el varon con la muger; echarse con muger. per metapbora {??printing error: metapbora for metaphora}; echarse con muger; reboluerse o meterse entre otros; o tener parte con muger. . 55m-00| nepanoa =nite=onitenepanoh. tener parte con muger, o meterse entre otros. . 71m2-12| nepanoa =nitla. aueriguar algo; iuntar o ayuntar vna cosa con otra. . 55m-1| nepanoa =nitla=onitlanepanoh. juntar vna cosa con otra, o echar vna cosa sobre otra. . 71m2-12| nepanoa in atl =mo. ayuntarse los rios. . 55m-00| nepanoa in noyollo =qui=oquinepano in noyollo. caer enla cuenta delo que dudaua, o delo que no se acordaua. ll +post.as.noun.1>. 71m2-15| nepanoani =tla. aueriguador; aueriguador tal (tal is aueriguar algo); cotejador; o aueriguador de algo. . 55m-1| nepanoaya , mo-. he joined in; they joined together. . b.2 f.2 p.62| nepanoaya , quihual-. he joined it. . b.9 f.5 p.64| nepanohtimani , mo-. they lie one over another. . b.11 f.4 p.36| nepanoliztli , ne-. union. . b.6 f.11 p.129| nepanoliztli =ne. ayuntamiento assi (assi is ayuntarse carnalmente a muger); ayuntamiento assi (assi is ayuntarse carnalmente el varon con la muger); copula; o ayuntamiento carnal. . 55m-00| nepanoliztli =tla. aueriguacion; aueriguacion tal (tal is aueriguar algo); cotejamiento assi (assi is cotejador; o aueriguador de algo); iuntura assi (assi is iuntar o ayuntar vna cosa con otra). . 55m-1| nepanolli =tla. aueriguado; cosa cotejada; o aueriguada. . 55m-1| nepanoya , mo-. they joined together. . b.2 f.2 p.55| nepanoz , tic-. you will join it, you will compare it. . b.6 f.17 p.215| netechhuia , mo-. ; they fight with each other; they quarrel with each other; they contend against one another. . b.7 f.2 p.17| netechhuia =tito. re?ir vnos con otros. tratarse mal vnos a otros los vezinos y parientes. . 71m1-18| netechhuia =tito=otitonetechhuihqueh. contender y tratarse mal^los de vna parentela o familia. . 71m2-12| netechhuia in mahhua =mo. re?ir vnos con otros. . 55m-17| netechhuia in mahhua =mo [scribal error: ??printing error: monetechuia ymmaua for monetechuia yn:maua; the colon is unclear -- maybe a bad typeface: 71m1]. re?ir vnos con otros. tratarse mal vnos a otros los vezinos y parientes. . 71m1-18| netechhuia in mahhua =mo=omonetechhuihqueh [scribal error: ??note that the preterit does not repeat the full phrase (i.e., "in mahhua" is left unstated): 71m2]. . . 71m2-10| netechoa =nitla. allegar vna cosa a otra; arrimar algo a otra cosa. . 71m1-2| netechoa =nitla=onitlanetechoh. . . 71m2-12| netechoani =tla. arrimador tal (tal is arrimar algo a otra cosa). . 71m1-2| netecholli =tla. arrimada cosa assi (assi is arrimar algo a otra cosa). . 71m1-2| ohnepanolco. encrucijada de caminos. . 71m2-13| omome , mahtlactlanepanolli -. twelve divisions. . b.10 f.10 p.169| paniuhtoc =cuahuitl ne. cruz; cruz de palo. . 55m-4| quequetolnepanihui =ni. doler las enzias. . 55m-6| quequetolnepanihui =ni=oniquequetolnepaniuh. dolerme las enzias. . 71m2-15| quequetolnepanihuiliztli. dolencia tal (tal is doler las enzias). . 71m1-8| quequetolnepaniuhqui. doliente assi (assi is doler las enzias); enfermo delas enzias. . 55m-6| techhuia =nite. estar cerca. . 55m-9| tenxinepanolli , tla-. . . b.2 f.2 p.60| tlahpaloa =nepanotl tito. saludarse vno a otro. . 55m-18| tlahtolnepanoa =ahmo tito. discordar en lo que se dize; discordia en dar pareceres o votos; dissension. . 55m-20| tlahtolnepanoa =mo=omotlatolnepanoque. ser concordes enlo que dizen. . 71m2-10| tontenepanoa. . <+post.as.noun.1>. b.9 f.2 p.13| tzacuiltiliztli =nepantic tetla. doblada pena; doblada pena assi (assi is doblar la pena y el castigo); doblado castigo. . 55m-6| xinepanoa =nitla. entretexer; texer vno con otro como esteras o cosa assi. . 55m-8| xinepanoa =nitla [scribal error: ??xinepanoa is put on the next line as an irregular overflow: 71m1]. texer vno con otro como esteras o cosa assi. . 71m1-20| xinepanoa =nitla=onitlaxinepanoh [[tlaxinepanoa =ni=onitlaxinepano]]. entretexer algo. . 71m2-25| xinepanoa =nitla=onitlaxinepano. entretexer como haziendo esteras, o seto, o cosa semejante. . 71m2-27| xinepanoani =tla. entretexedor; texedor tal (tal is texer vno con otro como esteras o cosa assi). . 71m2-25| xinepanoh =tla. entretexedor de algo; texedor tal (tal is texer vno con otro como esteras o cosa assi). . 71m2-25| xinepanoliztli =tla [scribal error: ??: 55m]. texedura assi (assi is texer vno con otro como esteras o cosa assi). . 55m-19| xinepanoliztli =tla. texedura assi (texer vno con otro como esteras o cosa assi); entretexedura; o el acto de entretexer. . 71m1-20| xinepanolli =tla. cosa entretexida; entretexida cosa; texido desta manera (desta manera is texer vno con otro como esteras o cosa assi). . 71m2-25| count 228 *post.as.noun.2 *** aahhuictlaza =nite. echar de aca para aculla a alguno, empuxandolo. . 71m1-9| ahhuichuetzi =n. caerse a vna parte y a otra. . 55m-2| ahhuichuetzi =n=onahhuichuetz. bambanearse. . 71m2-2| ahhuictlaloa =nin=oninahhuictlaloh. correr de aca para aculla. . 71m2-2| ahhuictlaz =te. arrojador tal (tal is arrojar o empuxar a alguno de aca para alla). . 71m1- 3| ahhuictlaza =nin. bueltas dar en la cama; bueltas o buelcos dar en la cama. . 55m-2| ahhuictlaza =nin=oninahuictlaz. desasossegarse el enfermo dando buelcos del dolor que padece. . 71m2-2| ahhuictlaza =nite. arrojar o empuxar a alguno de aca para alla; echar de aca para aculla a alguno; empuxandolo. . 71m1-3| ahhuictlazaliztli =te. arrojamiento assi (assi is arrojar o empuxar a alguno de aca para alla). . 71m1-3| ahhuictlazalli =tla. echado assi (assi is echar de aca para aculla a alguno, empuxandolo). . 71m1-9| ahhuictlaztli =tla. arrojado assi (assi is arrojar o empuxar a alguno de aca para alla); echado assi (assi is echar de aca para aculla a alguno; empuxandolo). . 71m1-3| ahhuictopehua =nite. arrojar o empuxar a alguno de aca para alla. . 71m1-3| ahhuictopehualiztli =te. arrojamiento assi (assi is arrojar o empuxar a alguno de aca para alla). . 71m1-3| ahhuictopeuh =te. arrojador tal (tal is arrojar o empuxar a alguno de aca para alla). . 71m1-3| ahhuictopeuhtli =tla. arrojado assi (assi is arrojar o empuxar a alguno de aca para alla). . 71m1-3| ahhuicyaliztli. bambaneamiento, o vagueacion. . 71m2-2| ahhuicyani. vagamundo. . 71m2- 2| ahhuicyauh =n. caerse a vna parte y a otra. . 55m-2| ahhuicyauh =n=onahhuicya. vaguear, o ser vagamundo. . 71m2-2| cepanahhua =mo. re?ir vnos con otros. tratarse mal vnos a otros los vezinos y parientes. . 71m1- 18| huechiliztli =ahhuic. cayda a vna parte y a otra; bambaneamiento. ch +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-2| huetzqui =ahhuic. caydo assi (assi is cayda a vna parte y a otra). . 55m-2| huictlazani =te. echador tal (tal is echar de aca para aculla a alguno, empuxandolo). . 71m1- 9| huictlazqui =te. echador tal (tal is echar de aca para aculla a alguno, empuxandolo). . 71m1-9| icanihtoani =te. murmurador. . 71m2-16| icanihtoh =te. murmurador. . 71m2-16| icanihtoliztli =te. murmuracion. . 71m2-16| icxinetechmotla =nino [[ocxinetechmotla =nin]]. cutir el vn touillo con el otro caminando, i, herir o ludir el vn touillo con el otro lastimandose. x +a>i +mis_analysis.2 +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-6| icxinetechmotla =nino=oninocxinetechmotlac. ludir el vn^touillo conel otro lastimandose el que camina. x +a>i +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-6| milnetechana =nite. alindar vna eredad con otra. . 55m-00| milnetechana =nite=onitemilnetechan. alindar mi heredad con la de otro. . 71m2- 10| nehuammana , quin-. he places them together. . b.6 f.4 p.45| nehuammanaya , quin-. they placed them together. . b.9 f.7 p.88| nehuanhuihuixoa =nitla. mecer vno con otro. . 55m-13| nehuanhuihuixoa =nitla=onitlanehuanhuihuixo. sacudir, o menear y mecer dos cosas juntamente. . 71m2-12| nehuanhuihuixoani =tla. mecedor tal (tal is mecer vno con otro). . 55m-13| nehuanhuihuixoliztli =tla. mecedura tal (tal is mecer vno con otro); el acto de sacudir o mecer algunas cosas juntamente. . 55m-13| nehuanhuihuixolli =tla. mecido assi (assi is mecer vno con otro); cosas sacudidas o mecidas juntamente. . 55m-13| nehuanilpia =nite. atraillar perros o cosas semejantes. . 71m1-3| nehuanilpia =nitla. atar una cosa con otra; atar vna cosa con otra. . 55m-1| nehuanilpia =nitla=onitlanehuanilpih. atar vna cosa con otra. . 71m2-12| nehuanilpiani =tla. atrauillador tal (tal is atraillar perros o cosas semejantes). . 71m1-3| nehuanilpiliztli =tla. atadura assi (assi is atar una cosa con otra); atadura tal (tal is atar vna cosa con otra); atadura de vna cosa con otra. . 55m-1| nehuanilpilli =tla. atada cosa assi (assi is atar vna cosa con otra); cosa atada juntamente con otra. . 71m1-3| nehuanilpiltih =tla. atrauillados assi (assi is atraillar perros o cosas semejantes). . 71m1-3| nehuantenehua =niquin=oniquinnehuanteneuh. nombrar a ambos ados. . 71m2-12| nenepantlazohtlaltia =nite=onitenenepantlazohtlalti. hazer que se amen vnos a otros, o hazer amistades. . 71m2-12| nenetechilpilli , tla-. something tied together. . b.11 f.27 p.282| nenetechmana , mo-. they are put together. . b.9 f.7 p.96| nenetechtlalia , tiquimon-. we put them together. . b.4 f.10 p.106| nepammatiloa =nitla. fregar vno con otro. i +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-10| nepammatiloa =nitla=onitlanepammatiloh. fregar, o refregar vna cosa con otra. i +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-12| nepammatiloliztli =tla. fregadura tal (tal is fregar vno con otro). i +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 55m- 10| nepammatilolli =tla. fregado assi (assi is fregar vno con otro). i +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 55m- 10| nepammotla =tic. tirar dos juntamente y acertar ambos alo que tiran. . 55m-19| nepammotla =titla=otitlanepammotlaqueh. tirar y acertar muchos juntamente a lo que se tira. . 71m2-12| nepampalehuia , mo-. they help one another. . b.6 f.20 p.251| nepampatiyotia =nitla. mercar en vno. . 55m-13| nepancohua =nitla. mercar en vno. . 55m-13| nepanhuihuixoa =nitla. mecer vno con otro. . 55m-13| nepanhuihuixoa =nitla=onitlanepanhuihuixoh. sacudir o mecer juntamente dos cosas. . 71m2-12| nepanhuihuixoani =tla. mecedor tal (tal is mecer vno con otro); sacudidor o mecedor de algunas cosas; juntamente. . 55m-13| nepanhuihuixoliztli =tla. mecedura tal (tal is mecer vno con otro); sacudimiento tal (tal is sacudidor o mecedor de algunas cosas; juntamente). . 55m-13| nepanhuihuixolli =tla. mecido assi (assi is mecer vno con otro); cosa sacudida assi (assi is sacudidor o mecedor de algunas cosas; juntamente). . 55m-13| nepanicnelia =tito=otitonepanicnelihqueh. hazer bien los vnos alos otros. . 71m2- 12| nepanicneliliztli =ne. beneficio que los vnos alos otros se hazen. . 71m2-12| nepanicnelilo =ne=onenepanicneliloc. hazense bien los vnos alos otros. . 71m2- 12| nepannahuatecqueh , omo-. . <+embed +post.as.noun.2>. b.9 f.2 p.23| nepantlahpaloa =tito. saludarse vno a otro. . 55m-18| nepantlahpaloa =tito=otitonepantlahpalohqueh. . . 71m2-12| nepantlahpaloliztli =ne. salutacion assi (assi is saludarse vno a otro); salutacion de vnos a otros. . 55m-18| nepantlapopolhuiah =mo=omonepantlapopolhuihqueh. los que se perdonan vnos a otros. . 71m2-10| nepantlaxeloaya , mo-. they divided themselves into two equal parts. . b.2 f.7 p.119| nepantlazohtla =mo. los que entre si se aman. . 71m2-10| nepantlazohtlaliztli =ne. amor con que se aman los vnos alos otros. . 71m2-12| nepantlazohtlalo =ne. amarse vnos a otros. . 71m2-12| nepantlazohtlaya , mo-. they esteemed each other; they loved each other. . b.9 f.2 p.23| nepantzahtzilia =tito=otitonepantzahtzilihqueh. llamar o dar bozes losvnos alos otros, o prouocarse a dar priesa los que trabajan. . 71m2-12| nepanxacualoa =nitla. fregar vno con otro. . 55m-10| nepanxacualoa =nitla=onitlanepanxacualoh. fregar o refregar vna cosa con otra. . 71m2-12| nepanxacualoliztli =tla. fregadura tal (tal is fregar vno con otro); refregadura de vna cosa con otra. . 55m-10| nepanxacualolli =tla. fregado assi (assi is fregar vno con otro); cosa refregada assi (assi is refregadura de vna cosa con otra). . 55m- 10| netechachalatza =mo=omonetechachalatz. cutir, o herirse vnas cosas con otras. ch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-10| netechachalatza =nitla. cutir vna vasija con otra. ch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-6| netechachalatza =nitla=onitlanetechachalatz. cutir o herir vna cosa con otra. ch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-12| netechachalatzaliztli =tla. herida o el acto de herir o cutir vnas cosas con otras. ch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-22| netechahhua =mo. re?ir vnos con otros. . 55m-17| netechahhua =mo [scribal error: ??printing error: moueteehaua for monetechaua: 71m1]. re?ir vnos con otros. tratarse mal vnos a otros los vezinos y parientes. . 71m1-18| netechahhua =mo=omonetechahhuaqueh. re?ir vnos con otros. . 71m2-10| netechahxitia =nitla. hazer llegar vna cosa a otra juntandolas. . 71m1-12| netechahxitia =nitla=onitlanetechahxiti. hazer llegar, o juntar vna cosa con otra. . 71m2-12| netechahxitiani =tla. hazedor tal (tal is hazer llegar vna cosa a otra juntandolas). . 71m1-12| netechahxitihqui =tla. hazedor tal (tal is hazer llegar vna cosa a otra juntandolas). . 71m1-12| netechalania , te-. he arouses bad feeling among people. ch +post.as.noun.2>. b.11 f.6 p.52| netechalania =mo. cutir vn hueuo con otro, o cosa assi. ch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-6| netechalania =mo=omonetechalani. cutir, o herirse vnas cosas con otras. ch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-10| netechalania =nite. desconcertar o enemistar a otros; discordia poner. ch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-7| netechalania =nite [scribal error: ??printing error: netechalama =nite for netechalania =nite; porrua has 'm', but the facsimile (1944) has 'ni': 71m1]. reboluer o turbar a otros. ch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-18| netechalania =nite [scribal error: ??printing error: netechalama, nite for netechalania, nite; 1944 facsimile has the correct form, but the porrua edition contains the misreading of "ni" as "m": 71m1]. sembrar discordias. ch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-19| netechalania =nite=onitenetechalani. reboluer a otros. ch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-12| netechalania =nitla. cutir vn hueuo con otro, o cosa assi; cutir vna vasija con otra; herir vna cosa con otra. ch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-6| netechalania =nitla=onitlanetechalanih. cutir o herir vna cosa con otra. ch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-12| netechalania =tito. contender vnos con otros; debatir o porfiar y contender vnos con otros; porfiar o debatir vnos con otros. ch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1- 5| netechalania =tito=otitonetechalanihqueh. contender vnos con otros. ch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-12| netechalaniani =te. reboluedor que mete mal entre otros. ch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2- 17| netechalaniliztli =te. desconcierto tal (tal is desconcertar a otros enemistandolos). ch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-5| netechalaniliztli =tla. herida assi (assi is herir vna cosa con otra). ch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-13| netechalaniliztli =te. el acto de reboluer a otros assi. s. aquella contienda y discordia (assi is reboluedor que mete mal entre otros). ch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-17| netechalaniliztli =tla. el acto de herir o cutir vna cosa con otra. ch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-22| netechalanilli =tla. cosa herida o cutida con otra. ch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-22| netechanaya , mo-. they were paired with each other. . b.9 f.7 p.88| netechantihui =ti=otinetechantiaque. yr asidos vnos de otros. . 71m2-12| netechantimani xocomecamilli =mo. pago de vi?as o vi?edo. . 55m-15| netechantiuh =omotechantia [scribal error: ??multiple problems: 1) ne- does not appear in the preterit; 2) mo- does not appear in the present; molina usually uses first person form unless the action is obviously not a human one: 71m2]. yr seguido y junto lo vno con lo otro. . 71m2-12| netechantiuh =mo. yr alguna cosa seguida o continuada, o eslauonada. . 71m2-10| netechcacalatza =mo. herirse vnas cosas con otras. . 55m-11| netechcacalatza =mo=omonetechcacalatz. lo mismo es que motechachalatza. . 71m2-10| netechcacalatzaliztli =tla. herida assi (assi is herirse vnas cosas con otras); . . 55m-11| netechcalania =nitla. herir vna cosa con otra (tal is herir con vara); herir vna cosa con otra. . 55m-11| netechcalania =nitla=onitlanetechcalani. cutir, o herir vna cosa con otra. . 71m2-12| netechcalaniliztli =tla. herida assi (assi is herir vna cosa con otra); . . 55m-11| netechchachalatza =mo. herirse vnas cosas con otras. chch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-11| netechchachalatza =nitla. cutir vna vasija con otra. chch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-4| netechchachalatzaliztli =tla. herida assi (assi is herirse vnas cosas con otras). chch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-11| netechchalania =mo. cutir vno con otro; tocar vna vasija con otra. chch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-4| netechchalania =nite. desconcertar a otros enemistandolos; discordia poner. ch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-5| netechchalania =nitla. cutir vna vasija con otra; herir vna cosa con otra (tal is herir con vara); quebrar vna cosa a otra; quebrar vna cosa con otra. chch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-4| netechchalaniani =te. malsin. chch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-13| netechchalaniliztli =tla. herida assi (assi is herir vna cosa con otra). chch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-11| netechchalanilli =tla. desconcertado assi (assi is desconcertar a otros enemistandolos). ch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-5| netechchihchiqui =nitla. ludir o fregar vna cosa con otra. . 55m-12| netechehua =nite. desconcertar a otros enemistandolos; desconcertar o enemistar a otros; discordia poner; reboluer o turbar a otros; sembrar discordias. . 55m-5| netechehua =nite=onitenetecheuh. ser malsin, o reboluer a otros. . 71m2-12| netechehua =nitla. ludir o fregar vna cosa con otra. . 55m-12| netechehua =nitla=onitlanetecheuh. refregar vna cosa con otra. . 71m2-12| netechehua =te. chismero. . 55m-4| netechehualiztli =te. desconcierto tal (tal is desconcertar a otros enemistandolos); desconcierto tal (tal is desconcertar o enemistar a otros); (assi is reboluedor que mete mal entre otros). . 55m-5| netechehuani =te. desconcertador assi (assi is desconcertar o enemistar a otros); lo mesmo es que netechalaniani; malsin; reboluedor que mete mal entre algunos. . 71m1-7| netecheuh =te. lo mesmo es que netechalaniani. . 71m2-17| netecheuhtinemi , te-. he goes about causing dissension. . b.4 f.3 p.30| netecheuhtli =tla. desconcertado assi (assi is desconcertar a otros enemistandolos). . 55m-5| netechhuitequi =nitla. herir vna cosa con otra (tal is herir con vara); herir vna cosa con otra. . 55m-11| netechhuitequi =nitla=onitlanetechhuitec. herir vna cosa con otra. . 71m2-12| netechhuitequiliztli =tla. herida assi (assi is herir vna cosa con otra); herida o encuentro de vna cosa con otra. . 55m-11| netechihchiqui =nitla. ludir o fregar vna cosa con otra. ch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-14| netechihchiqui =nitla=onitlanetechichic. refregar vna cosa con otra. ch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-12| netechihtzoma =nitla. coser vna cosa con otra. . 55m-4| netechihtzoma =nitla=onitlanetechitzon. coser vna cosa con otra. . 71m2-12| netechihtzomani =tla. cosedor tal (tal is coser vna cosa con otra). . 71m1-6| netechihtzonqui =tla. cosedor tal (tal is coser vna cosa con otra). . 71m1-6| netechihtzontli , tla-. something sewn together. . b.2 f.9 p.156| netechihtzontli =tla. cosida cosa assi (assi is coser vna cosa con otra). . 71m1-6| netechilpia , con-. they tie it together. . b.6 f.11 p.131| netechilpia , quin-. they tie them together. . b.6 f.11 p.131| netechilpia =nite. atraillar perros o cosa assi; atraillar perros o cosas semejantes. . 55m-1| netechilpia =nitla. atar una cosa con otra; atar vna cosa con otra. . 55m-1| netechilpia =nitla=onitlanetechilpi. atar vna cosa con otra, o trayllar galgos. &c. . 71m2-12| netechilpiani =te. atrauillador tal (tal is atraillar perros o cosas semejantes). . 71m1-3| netechilpiani =tla. atrauillador tal (tal is atraillar perros o cosas semejantes). . 71m1-3| netechilpiaya , quine-. they tied it together. . b.1 f.2 p.47| netechilpih , otech-. he tied us together. . b.6 f.12 p.146| netechilpiliztli =tla. atadura assi (assi is atar una cosa con otra); atadura tal (tal is atar vna cosa con otra); el acto de atar vna cosa con otra. . 55m-1| netechilpilli =tla. atada cosa assi (assi is atar vna cosa con otra); cosa atada a otra; o con otra. . 71m1-3| netechilpiltin =tla. atrauillados assi (assi is atraillar perros o cosas semejantes). . 71m1-3| netechixnamiqui =tito. contender vnos con otros; debatir o porfiar y contender vnos con otros; porfiar o debatir vnos con otros. . 71m1-5| netechixnamiqui =tito=otitonetechixnamique. contender vnos con otros. . 71m2- 12| netechmictihqueh , mo-. they killed one another. . b.12 f.5 p.72| netechmotla =mo. cutir vno con otro; cutir vn hueuo con otro; o cosa assi; herirse vnas cosas con otras. . 55m-4| netechmotla =mo=omonetechmotlac. lo mismo es que motechachalatza. . 71m2-10| netechmotla =nitla. cutir vn hueuo con otro, o cosa assi; herir vna cosa con otra (tal is herir con vara); herir vna cosa con otra; quebrar vna cosa a otra; quebrar vna cosa con otra. . 71m1-6| netechmotla =nitla=onitlanetechmotlac. cutir, o herir vna cosa con otra. . 71m2-12| netechmotla =tito. toparse assi ambos (assi is topar con otro no aduertiendo). . 55m-19| netechmotlaliztli =tla. herida assi (assi is herir vna cosa con otra); herida assi (assi is herirse vnas cosas con otras); . . 55m-11| netechmotlalli =tla. . . 71m2-22| netechmotlani =tla. el que hiere o cute vna cosa con otra. . 71m2-22| netechnamictiliztli =tla. iuntura assi (assi is iuntar o ayuntar vna cosa con otra). . 55m-11| netechpachoa =nitla. ayuntar vna cosa a otra; allegar vna cosa a otra; iuntar o ayuntar vna cosa con otra; ayuntar o allegar vna cosa a otra; arrimar algo a otra cosa. . 55m-00| netechpachoa =nitla=onitlanetechpacho. . . 71m2-12| netechpachoani =tla. ayuntador tal (tal is ayuntar o allegar vna cosa a otra); arrimador tal (tal is arrimar algo a otra cosa). . 71m1-2| netechpacholiztli =tla. ayuntamiento assi (assi is ayuntar vna cosa a otra); iuntura assi (assi is iuntar o ayuntar vna cosa con otra). . 55m- 00| netechpacholiztli =tla [scribal error: ??same as first item in this entry: 55m]. iuntura assi (assi is iuntar o ayuntar vna cosa con otra). . 55m-11| netechpacholiztli =tla. ayuntamiento assi (assi is ayuntar o allegar vna cosa a otra); iuntura assi (assi is iuntar o ayuntar vna cosa con otra); el acto de ayuntar vna cosa a otra; o con otra. . 71m1-2| netechpacholli =tla. ayuntada cosa assi (assi is ayuntar o allegar vna cosa a otra); arrimada cosa assi (assi is arrimar algo a otra cosa); cosa ayuntada a otra; o con otra. . 71m1-2| netechpiqui =nitla. tupir algo. . 55m-20| netechpiqui =nitla=onitlanetechpic. tupir algo. . 71m2-12| netechtlalia =nitla. ayuntar mantas cosiendolas vnas con otras o cosa assi; iuntar o ayuntar vna cosa con otra; ayuntar o juntar mantas vnas con otras cosiendolas. . 55m-00| netechtlalia =nitla=onitlanetechtlalih. juntar mantas cosiendolas vnas con otras, o cosa semejante. . 71m2-12| netechtlaliani =tla. ayuntador tal (tal is ayuntar o juntar mantas vnas con otras cosiendolas). . 71m1-2| netechtlaliliztli =tla. ayuntamiento tal (tal is ayuntar mantas cosiendolas vnas con otras o cosa assi); iuntura assi (assi is iuntar o ayuntar vna cosa con otra); ayuntamiento tal (tal is ayuntar o juntar mantas vnas con otras cosiendolas); el acto de juntar o pegar vna manta a otra; o cosa semejante. . 55m-00| netechtlalilli =tla. ayuntadas mantas assi (assi is ayuntar o juntar mantas vnas con otras cosiendolas); cosa ayuntada o pegada assi (assi is el acto de juntar o pegar vna manta a otra; o cosa semejante). . 71m1-2| netechtlapana =nitla. cutir hueuos; quebrar vna cosa a otra; quebrar vna cosa con otra. . 55m-4| netechtlapana =nitla=onitlanetechtlapan. quebrar alguna vasija con otra, o cosa assi. . 71m2-12| netechxacualoa =nite. fregar vno con otro. chx +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-12| netechxacualoa =nitla. fregar vno con otro; ludir o fregar vna cosa con otra. chx +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-10| netechxacualoliztli =tla. fregadura tal (tal is fregar vno con otro). chx +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-10| netechxacualolli =tla. fregado assi (assi is fregar vno con otro). chx +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-10| netechxamania =nitla. cutir hueuos. chx +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-4| netechxamania =nitla=onitlanetechaxamani. cutir o quebrar los hueuos vnos con otros, o las xicalas y cosas semejantes. chx +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-12| netechyehua , te-. . ye +post.as.noun.2>. b.10 f.2 p.38| netechzaloa =nitla. ayuntar mantas cosiendolas vnas con otras o cosa assi; iuntar o ayuntar vna cosa con otra; pegar dos cosas; soldar con plomo. chz +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-00| netechzaloliztli =tla. ayuntamiento tal (tal is ayuntar mantas cosiendolas vnas con otras o cosa assi); iuntura assi (assi is iuntar o ayuntar vna cosa con otra); pegadura tal (tal is pegar dos cosas); . chz +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-00| netechzalolli =tla. ; pegada cosa assi (assi is pegar dos cosas). chz +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-22| netezaloa =nitla. ayuntar o juntar mantas vnas con otras cosiendolas. z +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-2| netezaloa =nitla=onitlanetezaloh. pegar o juntar vna cosa con otra. z +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-12| netezaloani =tla. ayuntador tal (tal is ayuntar o juntar mantas vnas con otras cosiendolas). z +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-2| netezaloliztli =tla. ayuntamiento tal (tal is ayuntar o juntar mantas vnas con otras cosiendolas). z +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-2| netezalolli =tla. ayuntadas mantas assi (assi is ayuntar o juntar mantas vnas con otras cosiendolas). z +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-2| pachiuhtiuh , netech-. they go pressed against us. . b.12 f.7 p.114| quequeyolnetechmotla =nino. ludir el vn touillo con el otro,andando. . 71m1- 14| quequeyolnetechmotla =nino=oninoquequeyolnetechmotlac. ludir el vn touillo conelotro, quando caminamos y nos lastimamos. . 71m2-15| queyolnetechmotlaliztli. ludimiento assi (assi is ludir el vn touillo con el otro,andando). . 71m1-14| tecanecacayahualiz , i-. his deceit. . b.11 f.7 p.69| tecanecayahualiz , i-. his deceit. . b.6 f.18 p.231| teicanihtoa =nite=oniteteicanitoh. detraer, o murmurar de otros. . 71m2-16| tlahtlanxima , te-. they repeatedly commit adultery. . b.4 f.5 p.51| tlocpaihcani , te-. intercessor. . b.10 f.2 p.32| topanehua , mo-. it rises above us. . b.11 f.11 p.107| xocomecamilli =monetechantimani. pago de vi?as o vi?edo. . 71m1-16| yahqui =ahhuic. caydo assi (assi is cayda a vna parte y a otra); caydo assi. . 55m-2| yayaliztli =ahhuic. cayda a vna parte y a otra; bambaneamiento; o vagueacion. . 55m-2| zaliuhticateh. they are adhering. . b.4 f.10 p.106| count 360 *post.as.noun.3 *** altepetlalli =anepantlah ca. ysla tierra cercada de agua. . 55m-12| anepantlah. in the middle of the water, in the middle of the lagoon. . b.2 f.3 p.70| calacqui =anepantlah. engolfado. . 55m-8| calaqui =anepantlah ni. engolfarse. . 55m-8| cehuiliztli =nepantlah tonatiuh ne. siesta en el medio del dia. . 71m1-19| cehuiliztli tonaltzitzicaliztli =nepantla tonatiuh ne [scribal error: ??split??: 55m]. siesta enel medio del dia. . 55m-18| chaneh =cuauhnepantlah. morador de bosque. . 55m-14| cuanepantlah , i-. crown of his head; crown of its head; in the middle of his forehead; in the middle of its head; on the crown of his head; on the crown of its head; the crown of his head; the crown of its head. . b.8 f.5 p.76| cuanepantlah , in-. on the crown of their heads. . b.2 f.6 p.114| cuauhnepantlah. lo interior o el medio del desierto o del monte. . 71m2-15| cuauhnepantlah. middle of a forest. . b.5 f.1 p.153| elelquixtiloyan =nepantlah tonatiuh ne. sesteadero lugar de siesta. x +l.for.ll +post.as.noun.3>. 55m-18| ellelquixtia =nepantlah tonatiuh nin. sestear tener la siestra; sestear tener la siesta en algun lugar. x +post.as.noun.3>. 55m-18| ellelquixtiliztli =nepantlah tonatiuh ne. siesta enel medio del dia; siesta en el medio del dia. x +post.as.noun.3>. 55m-18| huehuetzi =nepantlah. nones. . 55m-14| huetzi =nepantlah. nones. . 71m2-12| ihcac =nepantlah. medianero como quiera; medianero; o cosa que esta en medio de algo. . 55m- 13| ihcaliztli =nepantlah. medianeria desta manera (desta manera is medianero como quiera). . 55m-13| ithualnepantlah. in the middle of the courtyard. . b.2 f.2 p.59| macpalnepantla , i-. . . b.9 f.3 p.35| macpalnepantlah , i-. in the middle of the palm of his hand. . b.9 f.3 p.34| nemi =cuauhnepantlah. morador de bosque. . 55m-14| nemi =tenepantlah ni. chismear; reboluer o turbar a otros; sembrar discordias; reboluer a otros; o ser malsin. . 55m-4| nemi =tenepantlah tetzalan ni=tenepantlah tetzalan oninen. el acto de reboluer aotros o meter mal entre otros. . 71m2-17| nemiliztli =tenepantlah. el acto de reboluer aotros. . 71m2-17| nemini =tenepantlah. chismero; malsin y reboluedor de otros. . 55m-4| nemini =tetzalan tenepantlah. malsin; o reboltoso. . 55m-13| nepantlah. . . b.2 f.6 p.116| nepantlah. medianamente assi. . 71m1- 15| nepantlah , i-. ; at its zenith; in the middle of it; in the midst of it; in the center of it; its center. . b.6 f.16 p.203| nepantlah , in-. among them; between them; in the middle of them; in the midst of them. . b.12 f.3 p.48| nepantlah , te-. among people; in the middle of people. . b.1 f.1 p.5| nepantlah , tla-. ; in the middle. . b.4 f.3 p.23| nepantlah =te. en medio de algunos, o entre otros; entre algunos. . 71m2-17| nepantlah. among people; in the middle; in the middle of it; in the midst of it; middle. . b.10 f.1 p.16| nepantlahquixtiliztli =tla. reduzimiento assi (assi is reduzir al medio). x +post.as.noun.3>. 55m-17| nepantlahtectli =tla. cortada cosa assi (assi is cortar por medio). . 71m1-5| nepantlahtequi =nitla. cortar por medio. . 55m-4| nepantlahtequi =nitla=onitlanepantlahtec. cortar algo por medio. . 71m2-12| nepantlahtequiliztli =tla. cortadura assi (assi is cortar por medio). . 71m1-5| nepantlahtlaxilia =ticto. culpa echar vno a otro; culpa echar el vno al otro. x +post.as.noun.3>. 55m-4| nepantlahtlaxilia =ticto=otictonepantlahtlaxilique. echar la culpa de algo, el vno al otro. x +post.as.noun.3>. 71m2-19| nepantlahtli. el medio entre dos estremidades; medio entre dos estremos. . 71m2-12| nepantlahtzayana =nitla. romper por medio. . 55m-17| nepantlahtzayana =nitla=onitlanepantlahtzayan. rasgar algo por medio. . 71m2-12| ohnepanco. encrucijada de caminos; encruzijada de caminos. . 71m2-13| pantlah , ne-. in the middle. . b.2 f.10 p.165| pantlah =ne. enel medio, o en medio, o por el medio. aduerbio. . 71m2-12| quetzaliztli =tenepantlah mo. medianeria desta manera (desta manera is medianero como quiera). . 55m-13| quetzani =tenepantlah mo. medianero como quiera; el que se pone en^medio delos que ri?en para poner los empaz. . 55m-13| quixtia =nepantlah nic. reduzir al medio. x +post.as.noun.3>. 55m-17| quixtia =nepantlah nic=nepantlah oniquixtih. reduzir algo al medio. x +post.as.noun.3>. 71m2- 12| quiza titlantli =nepantlah. mensajero entre dos; mensagero entre dos. . 55m-13| quizani , tenepantlah -. one who settles quarrels. . b.10 f.1 p.15| teca =tenepantlah nino. chismear; reboluer o turbar a otros; sembrar discordias. . 55m- 4| teca =tenepantlah nino=tenepantlah oninotecac. el acto de reboluer aotros o meter mal entre otros. . 71m2-17| tecani , tenepantlah mo-. one who sows discord among people. . b.10 f.1 p.7| tecani =tenepantlah mo. chismero; malsin y reboluedor de otros. . 55m-4| tecani =tetzalan tenepantlah mo. malsin; malsin que mete mal entre otros. . 55m-13| tecatinemi , tenepantlah mo-. he goes along gossiping. . b.11 f.8 p.79| tecaya , tetzalan tenepantlah mo-. he brought discord among people. . b.1 f.1 p.5| tenepantlah ninoquetza =tetzalan=tetzalan tenepantlah oninoquetz. poner paz entre los que ri?en, o se acuchillan. . 71m2-19| tenepantlah ninoteca =tetzalan=tetzalan tenepantlah oninotecac. ser malsin y meter mal entre otros. . 71m2-19| teochihualiztli =yohualnepantlah ne. maitines. . 55m-13| tequiliztli =tenepantlah ne. el acto de reboluer aotros. i +post.as.noun.3>. 71m2-17| teteca =tenepantlah nino=tenepantlah oninotetecac. el acto de reboluer aotros o meter mal entre otros. . 71m2-17| tianquiznepantlah. in the middle of the market place. . b.3 f.2 p.27| titlantli =nepantlahquiza. mensajero entre dos. . 71m1-15| tlanepantlahquixtia , tla-. he reduces something to medium. . b.10 f.2 p.29| tlanepantlahtequini =tla. cortador tal (tal is cortar por medio). . 71m1- 5| tonalli =nepantlah. medio dia; media dia. . 55m-13| tonatiuh , nepantlah -. at midday; noon. . b.1 f.2 p.31| tonatiuh =nepantlah. medio dia; media dia. . 55m-13| tonatiuh neelelquixtiloyan =nepantlah [scribal error: ??neelelquixtiloyan for neellelquixtiloyan: 71m1]. sesteadero lugar de siesta. x +l.for.ll +post.as.noun.3>. 71m1-19| yoalnepantlah. media noche, o amedia noche. . 71m2-7| yoalnepantlah. at midnight; midnight; in the middle of the night. . b.2 f.10 p.170| yohualnepantlah. a^media noche; media noche; o amedia noche. . 71m1-2| yohualnepantlah. at midnight; midnight; in the middle of the night. . b.2 f.10 p.158| count 283 _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx Fri Nov 20 20:17:51 2009 From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright) Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 14:17:51 -0600 Subject: Tloc, nahuac, tech, tlan In-Reply-To: <20091120133335.8ftomp7eowc0so0k@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: Joe: I'm glad your mind has been grabbed by this category of Nahuatl morphemes. Your list provides a deeper look into the nepan and netech morpheme compounds than I ever imagined having the chance to see. I have a couple of comments, although I don't suppose either can be placed in the "helpful" category. I should have learned to understand all of your abbreviations by now, but several of them still go over my head. Please bear in mind that I'm not a linguist by training (I studied visual arts as an undergrad and masters student, transdisciplinary social sciences at the PhD level), although I find verbal communication just as interesting as visual communication and try to understand what's going on. I was a bit puzzled by the "poss" label for the ne element in these constructions, having previously only conceived of this morpheme as an "indefinite reflexive prefix." Then I saw Andrews' brief treatment of this as a "reciprocative possessor morph" meaning "one another's" and "each other's" (Introduction to classical Nahuatl, 2nd. ed., p. 107). He says this morpheme is "highly infrequent" and has a "more restricted meaning" than the homophonous indefinite reflexive prefix (which he labels "a shuntline reflexive/reciprocative-object morph" in his text [p. 57] and, mercifully, "reflexive pronoun" in the index [p. 671]). Examples aren't provided in the places I just cited, although he discusses nepan on pp. 484 and 485: "*nepan = on one another, over one another [This NNC, whose possessor pronoun shows reciprocal possession, occurs only as an imbed and as the source for the adjectival NNC nepa:pan (...)]." So a bit of light begins to shine through my mental fog. I'll print out your word list and look at it from time to time so that it can duly sink in. Saludos, David -----Mensaje original----- De: Campbell, R. Joe [mailto:campbel at indiana.edu] Enviado el: viernes, 20 de noviembre de 2009 12:34 p.m. Para: David Wright CC: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org Asunto: RE: [Nahuat-l] Tloc, nahuac, tech, tlan David, Michael, ihuan occequi Nocnihuan, The "postposition" topic is a mind-grabber. My list for the noun function includes the following: 1. base for verber suffix. 2. embeds as adverb in verbs (just as "real" nouns do). 3. takes further postposition (e.g., nepantlah). 4. takes negative prefix (like noun and verb stems [e.g., ahcan, ahhuic]). 5. takes plural suffix (e.g., nehuantin). I include some collected examples of the first three categories below and I would appreciate helpful comments. Joe _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From susana at losrancheros.org Fri Nov 20 21:04:49 2009 From: susana at losrancheros.org (Susana Moraleda) Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 22:04:49 +0100 Subject: dancing Message-ID: Niltze listeros, I am completely confused with the terms for "to dance", "dance", "dancer". I understand it is a transitive AND reflexive verb, but.... TO DANCE IHTOTIA, so I dance (alone) = NINECHIHTOTIA (transitive)? or NINOIHTOTIA (reflexive)? DANCE I have found IHTOTILIZTLI, MIHTOHTLI and NETOTILIZTLI. What are the sources for the last two? why starting with M? is that the reflexive version? and why does the last one start with NE? Which one is grammatically correct? DANCER I found MIHTOTIANI, MIHTOTIHQUI and MOHTOTIHQUI. Why not something without the M? again because of its reflexive nature? Why not IHTOTIANI? Muchas gracias por adelantado. Susana -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Sat Nov 21 02:08:29 2009 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 21:08:29 -0500 Subject: dancing In-Reply-To: <003301ca6a25$1b408d70$98e83697@susana> Message-ID: Quoting Susana Moraleda : > Niltze listeros, > > I am completely confused with the terms for "to dance", "dance", "dancer". > I understand it is a transitive AND reflexive verb, but.... Bueno. No es un problema grande, Susana. First of all, note that in Spanish, Italian, French, English... that transitive verbs can be reflexive verbs. That's the nature of things grammatical: I see you. I see myself. Nahuatl can perform in the same way. Nimitzcaqui " hear you, I listen to you" Ninocaqui "I hear myself, I listen to myself" > > TO DANCE > IHTOTIA, Now, in Spanish, Italian, French, English, the verb meaning "dance" is intransitive and thus requires a preposition to complete the action: I dance with you. I dance with myself...or I dance by myself. But, in Nahuatl, the verb meaning "dance" is transitive, and thus also can be reflexive. Nimitzihtotia "I dance with you,"literally "I dance you" Ninihtohtia "I dance" literally "I dance myself" (actually these forms are nimitzihto:tia: and ninihto:htia:...but for now we'll leave the long vowel markings to those, including myself :-), who are concerned with such things.) > I dance (alone) = NINECHIHTOTIA (transitive)? or NINOIHTOTIA (reflexive)? > Not the first one because -nech- is not a reflexive pronoun; it's an object pronoun for a transitive verb. (-)no-/(-)mo- are the reflexive pronouns. Yes, the second is pretty close but the -o- of the reflexive pronoun can be "unstable" depending on the nature of the verb that follows, and in the case of the verb "dance" drops in favor of the -i- of -ihtotia. So, you get "ninihtotia," which translates "I am dancing, I dance" > DANCE > I have found IHTOTILIZTLI, MIHTOHTLI and NETOTILIZTLI. What are the > sources for the last two? why starting with M? is that the reflexive > version? and why does the last one start with NE? Which one is > grammatically correct? Netotiliztli is the correct form for the deverbal noun meaning "dancing," i.e., "the act of dancing". (-)ne- is an "impersonal" reflexive pronoun used when forming "impersonal" forms such as -liztli "nounings" and non-active impersonal forms such as necaco 'people hear themselves', nezahualo 'there is fasting" (i.e., people are fasting themselves), onequetzaloc 'people stood up'. I don't know about "IHTOTILIZTLI". It sounds strange and ungrammatical. Seems to be missing the front end. However, "MIHTOHTLI" sounds o.k. for a noun meaning 'a dance' or 'the dance' premised on the personal reflexive pronoun (-)mo-. > > DANCER > I found MIHTOTIANI, MIHTOTIHQUI and MOHTOTIHQUI. Why not something > without the M? again because of its reflexive nature? Why not > IHTOTIANI? All of these sound fine, and you have answered your own question, I would say. Best, Michael _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Sat Nov 21 02:30:18 2009 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 21:30:18 -0500 Subject: Tloc, nahuac, tech, tlan In-Reply-To: <20091120133335.8ftomp7eowc0so0k@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: Quoting "Campbell, R. Joe" : > David, Michael, ihuan occequi Nocnihuan, > > The "postposition" topic is a mind-grabber. My list for the noun > function includes the following: > > 1. base for verber suffix. > 2. embeds as adverb in verbs (just as "real" nouns do). > 3. takes further postposition (e.g., nepantlah). > 4. takes negative prefix (like noun and verb stems [e.g., ahcan, ahhuic]). > 5. takes plural suffix (e.g., nehuantin). Regarding #2, I'd like to get around to discussing your "(just as 'real' nouns do)" sometime. Are there real nouns in Nahuatl? I'm reminded of Father Baraga's statement in his _The Theoretical and Practical Grammar of the Otchipwe Language": "In closing let it be allowed that the Indian language is perfect in its own way, and has many beauties not to be found in our modern languages; for instance, the verb in the Indian idiom, is the supreme chief of the language; it draws into its magical circle all the other parts of speech, and makes them act, move, suffer, and even exist in the manner, and in such situations as is pleasing to it. In truth a learned philologist likened the verb of the Indian language to Atlas that carries the world on its shoulders. If a language can be compared to a world, this comparison appears to us very just; for the verb can carry it entirely in its bosom." Blair Rudes, the late Iroquoianist, once told me that there was a Iroquoian language (Tuscarora, I believe, but I can't remember) that had only around 7 bona fide nouns; everything else that we would consider nouns were actually verbs. Nahuatl seems to have this same characteristic. I think Andrews talks about this somewhere, but I don't know where. But when we say, for example, 'cuauhtli' (cua:uhtli) 'eagle', what we are dealing with here is a verb phrase meaning 'it is an/the eagle'. Well, that's all for another time. > > I include some collected examples of the first three categories > below and I would appreciate helpful comments. tlazohcamati huel miac, Joe. This looks like fun. Michael P.S. In an earlier posting I said that maybe you had meant to write /i:can-pa/ rather than /i:can/. What lack of vision on my part of yours. > > Joe > > > *post.as.noun.1 *** > amanepaniuhqui. plaited with paper. +post.as.noun.1>. b.9 f.1 p.5| > anepanolli. ayuntamiento de rios; ayuntamiento de rios o de aguas; > ayuntamiento de aguas que entran en alguna parte. v03a-caus06-l1 +post.as.noun.1>. 55m-00| > cahcalnepanoltia , nino-. I build houses in two parts for myself. > +post.as.noun.1>. b.11 f.26 p.275| > calnepanoa , ni-. I erect a house upon another one. pan-v03a-caus06 +post.as.noun.1>. b.11 f.26 p.275| > calnepanolli. sobrado de casa. +post.as.noun.1>. 55m-18| > calnepanolli. two story house. +post.as.noun.1>. b.11 f.26 p.274| > calnepanolmelactli. sala alta; sala alta y larga. v03a-caus06-l1-mela:hua-l2 +w>k +post.as.noun.1>. 55m-18| > calnepanolquetza , ni-. I erect a house upon another one. poss-pan-v03a-caus06-l1-quetza +post.as.noun.1>. b.11 f.26 p.275| > calnepanoltia , nino-. I provide myself a house upon another one. > . > b.11 f.26 p.275| > cennenepanoliztica =tla. mezcladamente. caus06-liz-ti1-ca2 +post.as.noun.1>. 55m-13| > cennepanoa =nitla. encorporar o mezclar vna cosa con otra; mesturar; > mezclar. . 71m1- > 9| > cennepanoa =nitla=onitlacennepanoh. . p51-cem-poss-pan-v03a-caus06 +post.as.noun.1>. 71m2-3| > cennepanoliztli =tla. mezcla assi (assi is mezcladamente). poss-pan-v03a-caus06-liz +post.as.noun.1>. 55m-13| > cennepanolli =tla. cosa rebuelta y mezclada con otra, o con otras; > mesturada cosa; mezclada cosa. +post.as.noun.1>. 71m2-20| > chiucnauhnepaniuhca. . +post.as.noun.1>. b.6 f.14 p.175| > chiucnauhnepaniuhcan. . +post.as.noun.1>. b.6 f.14 p.176| > epnepaniuhcayo. having crossing bands of seashells. v03a-prt1-ca:5-yo:tl1 +post.as.noun.1>. b.12 f.1 p.15| > epnepaniuhqui. crossed with seashells; something which is set with > pearls. . b.12 f.1 > p.10| > hualnepanoa , nic-. I come to join it. caus06 +post.as.noun.1>. b.11 f.26 p.267| > huitoliuhcanepaniuhqui. cruzero; crucero. poss-pan-v03a-prt1-c2 +post.as.noun.1>. 55m-4| > huitoliuhcanepanolli. cruzero. caus06-l1 +post.as.noun.1>. 55m-4| > huitoliuhcanepanolli [scribal error: ??printing error: > vitoliuhcaneponolli for vitoliuhcanepanolli: 71m1]. crucero. > . > 71m1-6| > icanhuiani =tla. el que va tras otros, acompa?ando los. v05b-ni1 +post.as.noun.1>. 71m2-21| > icxinetechhuia =nino [[ocxinetechuia =nin]]. cutir el vn touillo con > el otro caminando, i, herir o ludir el vn touillo con el otro > lastimandose. +post.as.noun.1 +z>x +a>i>. 71m1-6| > icxinetechhuia =nino=oninocxinetechhuih. ludir el vn^touillo conel > otro lastimandose el que camina. +post.as.noun.1 +z>x +a>i>. 71m2-6| > ixnepanilhuia =nitetla=onitetlaixnepanilhuih. aforrar algo a otro. > . 71m2- > 8| > ixnepanoa =nite=oniteixnepanoh. encontrarse cara a^cara el varon > conla muger sin aduertir enello. caus06 +post.as.noun.1>. 71m2-8| > ixnepanoa =nitla. aforrar algo; doblar o aforrar algo; enforrar > vestidura. . > 55m-00| > ixnepanoa =nitla=onitlaixnepanoh. aforrar algo, o doblar la manta, o > juntar la vna conla otra. +post.as.noun.1>. 71m2-8| > ixnepanolli =tla. aforrada cosa; cosa aforrada; o cosa juntada vna > con otra; doblada cosa assi (assi is doblar o aforrar algo); > enforrada assi (assi is enforrar vestidura). v03a-caus06-l1 +post.as.noun.1>. 55m-00| > mahtlactlanepanolli. ten divisions. caus06-l1 +post.as.noun.1>. b.10 f.10 p.169| > manepanoa =nino. desposarse; iuntar las manos. pan-v03a-caus06 +kin +post.as.noun.1>. 55m-6| > manepanoa =nino=oninomanepanoh. casarse, desposarse, o juntar las > manos. . > 71m2-9| > manepanoa =nite. desposar a otro; desposar o casar. poss-pan-v03a-caus06 +kin +post.as.noun.1>. 55m-6| > manepanoa =nite=onitemanepanoh. casar a otros, o juntarles las manos. > . 71m2-9| > manepanohqui =mo. desposado. +kin +post.as.noun.1>. 55m-6| > manepanohqui =mo [scribal error: ??printing error: > momanepanoquimonamictiqui for momanepanoqui. monamictiqui; porrua > and 1944 facsimile have the same error; 1555 has momanepanoqui. > monamictiqui: 71m1]. desposado. prt1-c2 +kin +post.as.noun.1>. 71m1-8| > manepanohqui =mo. desposado o desposada. caus06-prt1-c2 +kin +post.as.noun.1>. 71m2-10| > manepanoliztli =ne. desposorio. +kin +post.as.noun.1>. 71m1-8| > namictihqui =mo [scribal error: ??printing error: > momanepanoquimonamictiqui for momanepanoqui. monamictiqui; porrua > and 1944 facsimile have the same error; 1555 has momanepanoqui. > monamictiqui: 71m1]. desposado. +post.as.noun.1>. 71m1-8| > nenepanilhuia =nictla. diferentes y diuersas medicinas aplicar a la > enfermedad que va creciendo. ben +fusion +post.as.noun.1>. 71m1-8| > nenepaniuhqui. . . b.12 > f.1 p.10| > nenepaniuhtica. crossing each other. ca:1a aux11a +post.as.noun.1>. b.11 f.23 p.235| > nenepaniuhtoc. it is intercrossed. prt2 aux13 +post.as.noun.1>. b.6 f.5 p.53| > nenepanoa , mo-. they join together. +post.as.noun.1>. b.11 f.24 p.248| > nenepanoa =nitla. encorporar o mezclar vna cosa con otra; mesturar; > mezclar. . 71m1- > 9| > nenepanoa =nitla=onitlanenepanoh. juntar mezclar, o reboluer vna cosa > con otra. . 71m2- > 12| > nenepanoaya , qui-. they joined it together. caus06-ya3 +post.as.noun.1>. b.2 f.9 p.157| > nenepanohtihuetzi , mo-. . huetzi aux03 +post.as.noun.1>. b.3 f.2 p.28| > nenepanohtoqueh , mo-. they lay mixed up. caus06-prt1-ti1-o-plur01 aux13 +post.as.noun.1>. b.12 f.5 p.72| > nenepanoliztica =tla. mezcladamente. liz-ti1-ca2 +post.as.noun.1>. 55m-13| > nenepanoliztli =tla. mezcla assi (assi is mezcladamente). poss-pan-v03a-caus06-liz +post.as.noun.1>. 55m-13| > nenepanolli =tla. mesturada cosa; mezclada cosa. v03a-caus06-l1 +post.as.noun.1>. 55m-13| > nenepanolli. assorted; mixed; mixed together. caus06-l1 +post.as.noun.1>. b.10 f.4 p.70| > nenepantic. joined together. . > b.11 f.20 p.199| > nepanhuia =nic. mercar en vno. +post.as.noun.1>. 55m-13| > nepanhuihqueh , qui-. . +post.as.noun.1>. b.12 f.5 p.73| > nepanihui in notlahtol =ahmo huel. discordar en lo que se dize. mo: huel1 poss-pan-v03a in poss-p51-ihtahui-caus06-l1 > +post.as.noun.1>. 55m-20| > nepanihui in totlahtol =ahmo. discordar en parecer o voto; discordia > en dar pareceres o votos; dissension. p51-ihtahui-caus06-l1 +post.as.noun.1>. 55m-6| > nepanilhuia =nitetla. doblar la pena. caus06-ben +post.as.noun.1>. 55m-6| > nepanilhuia =nitetla [[tlanepanilhuia =nite]]. doblar la pena y el > castigo. +post.as.noun.1>. 71m1-8| > nepanilhuia =nitetla=onitetlanepanilhuih. castigar a otro con doblado > castigo. . > 71m2-12| > nepanilhuia =tictla. tirar dos juntamente y acertar ambos alo que > tiran. . 55m- > 19| > nepaniuhca =i. iunta de dos rios. +post.as.noun.1>. 55m-11| > nepaniuhca in cruz =i. el brazo dela cruz. ca:5 in ++cruz +spanish +post.as.noun.1>. 71m2-7| > nepaniuhca in ome atoyatl =i. junta de dos rios. prt1-ca:5 in o:me a:tl1-toya:hui +post.as.noun.1>. 71m2-7| > nepaniuhcatlatzacuiltia =nite. doblar la pena; doblar la pena y el > castigo. +post.as.noun.1>. 55m-6| > nepaniuhcatlatzacuiltia =nite=onitenepaniuhcatlatzacuiltih. castigar > a otro con doblado castigo. tzacui-caus01 +post.as.noun.1>. 71m2-12| > nepaniuhqui. crosswoven; interspersed. +post.as.noun.1>. b.10 f.11 p.180| > nepaniuhtoc. it is intercrossed. +post.as.noun.1>. b.6 f.3 p.30| > nepanoa , con-. it joins it; it places it together. v03a-caus06 +post.as.noun.1>. b.11 f.26 p.267| > nepanoa , mo-. it is joined, it is added; they join in. v03a-caus06 +post.as.noun.1>. b.7 f.2 p.25| > nepanoa , nic-. I join it. +post.as.noun.1>. b.11 f.26 p.267| > nepanoa , nocon-. I join it. +post.as.noun.1>. b.11 f.26 p.267| > nepanoa =nite. ayuntarse carnalmente a muger; ayuntarse carnalmente > el varon con la muger; echarse con muger. per metapbora > {??printing error: metapbora for metaphora}; echarse con > muger; reboluerse o meterse entre otros; o tener parte con muger. > . 55m-00| > nepanoa =nite=onitenepanoh. tener parte con muger, o meterse entre > otros. . 71m2-12| > nepanoa =nitla. aueriguar algo; iuntar o ayuntar vna cosa con otra. > . 55m-1| > nepanoa =nitla=onitlanepanoh. juntar vna cosa con otra, o echar vna > cosa sobre otra. . > 71m2-12| > nepanoa in atl =mo. ayuntarse los rios. a:tl1 +post.as.noun.1>. 55m-00| > nepanoa in noyollo =qui=oquinepano in noyollo. caer enla cuenta delo > que dudaua, o delo que no se acordaua. poss-yo:lli-yo:tl1 +ly>ll +post.as.noun.1>. 71m2-15| > nepanoani =tla. aueriguador; aueriguador tal (tal is aueriguar > algo); cotejador; o aueriguador de algo. ni1 +post.as.noun.1>. 55m-1| > nepanoaya , mo-. he joined in; they joined together. v03a-caus06-ya3 +post.as.noun.1>. b.2 f.2 p.62| > nepanoaya , quihual-. he joined it. ya3 +post.as.noun.1>. b.9 f.5 p.64| > nepanohtimani , mo-. they lie one over another. caus06-prt1-ti1-mani aux04 +post.as.noun.1>. b.11 f.4 p.36| > nepanoliztli , ne-. union. +post.as.noun.1>. b.6 f.11 p.129| > nepanoliztli =ne. ayuntamiento assi (assi is ayuntarse carnalmente a > muger); ayuntamiento assi (assi is ayuntarse carnalmente el varon > con la muger); copula; o ayuntamiento carnal. caus06-liz +post.as.noun.1>. 55m-00| > nepanoliztli =tla. aueriguacion; aueriguacion tal (tal is aueriguar > algo); cotejamiento assi (assi is cotejador; o aueriguador de > algo); iuntura assi (assi is iuntar o ayuntar vna cosa con otra). > . 55m-1| > nepanolli =tla. aueriguado; cosa cotejada; o aueriguada. pan-v03a-caus06-l1 +post.as.noun.1>. 55m-1| > nepanoya , mo-. they joined together. +post.as.noun.1>. b.2 f.2 p.55| > nepanoz , tic-. you will join it, you will compare it. pan-v03a-caus06-z +post.as.noun.1>. b.6 f.17 p.215| > netechhuia , mo-. ; they fight with each other; they quarrel with > each other; they contend against one another. +post.as.noun.1>. b.7 f.2 p.17| > netechhuia =tito. re?ir vnos con otros. tratarse mal vnos a otros los > vezinos y parientes. . > 71m1-18| > netechhuia =tito=otitonetechhuihqueh. contender y tratarse mal^los de > vna parentela o familia. +post.as.noun.1>. 71m2-12| > netechhuia in mahhua =mo. re?ir vnos con otros. in p54-ahhua +embed +post.as.noun.1>. 55m-17| > netechhuia in mahhua =mo [scribal error: ??printing error: monetechuia > ymmaua for monetechuia yn:maua; the colon is unclear -- maybe a bad > typeface: 71m1]. re?ir vnos con otros. tratarse mal vnos a otros > los vezinos y parientes. +kin +post.as.noun.1>. 71m1-18| > netechhuia in mahhua =mo=omonetechhuihqueh [scribal error: ??note that > the preterit does not repeat the full phrase (i.e., "in mahhua" is > left unstated): 71m2]. . tech1-v05b in p54-ahhua +embed +post.as.noun.1>. 71m2-10| > netechoa =nitla. allegar vna cosa a otra; arrimar algo a otra cosa. > . 71m1-2| > netechoa =nitla=onitlanetechoh. . p51-poss-tech1-v03a-caus06 +post.as.noun.1>. 71m2-12| > netechoani =tla. arrimador tal (tal is arrimar algo a otra cosa). > . 71m1-2| > netecholli =tla. arrimada cosa assi (assi is arrimar algo a otra > cosa). . 71m1-2| > ohnepanolco. encrucijada de caminos. co1 +post.as.noun.1>. 71m2-13| > omome , mahtlactlanepanolli -. twelve divisions. pan-v03a-caus06-l1 om-o:me +post.as.noun.1>. b.10 f.10 p.169| > paniuhtoc =cuahuitl ne. cruz; cruz de palo. prt1-ti1-o-prt2 aux13 +post.as.noun.1>. 55m-4| > quequetolnepanihui =ni. doler las enzias. v03a .bbbb +post.as.noun.1>. 55m-6| > quequetolnepanihui =ni=oniquequetolnepaniuh. dolerme las enzias. dupl-quetolli-poss-pan-v03a .bbbb +post.as.noun.1>. 71m2-15| > quequetolnepanihuiliztli. dolencia tal (tal is doler las enzias). > . 71m1-8| > quequetolnepaniuhqui. doliente assi (assi is doler las enzias); > enfermo delas enzias. +post.as.noun.1>. 55m-6| > techhuia =nite. estar cerca. . > 55m-9| > tenxinepanolli , tla-. . +post.as.noun.1>. b.2 f.2 p.60| > tlahpaloa =nepanotl tito. saludarse vno a otro. l2 p21-p54-tlahpalli-v03a-caus06 +post.as.noun.1>. 55m-18| > tlahtolnepanoa =ahmo tito. discordar en lo que se dize; discordia en > dar pareceres o votos; dissension. caus06-l1-poss-pan-v03a-caus06 +post.as.noun.1>. 55m-20| > tlahtolnepanoa =mo=omotlatolnepanoque. ser concordes enlo que dizen. > . > 71m2-10| > tontenepanoa. . <+post.as.noun.1>. b.9 f.2 p.13| > tzacuiltiliztli =nepantic tetla. doblada pena; doblada pena assi > (assi is doblar la pena y el castigo); doblado castigo. tic p52-p51-tzacui-caus01-liz +post.as.noun.1>. 55m-6| > xinepanoa =nitla. entretexer; texer vno con otro como esteras o cosa > assi. . 55m-8| > xinepanoa =nitla [scribal error: ??xinepanoa is put on the next line > as an irregular overflow: 71m1]. texer vno con otro como esteras o > cosa assi. . > 71m1-20| > xinepanoa =nitla=onitlaxinepanoh [[tlaxinepanoa =ni=onitlaxinepano]]. > entretexer algo. +prob +post.as.noun.1>. 71m2-25| > xinepanoa =nitla=onitlaxinepano. entretexer como haziendo esteras, o > seto, o cosa semejante. +post.as.noun.1>. 71m2-27| > xinepanoani =tla. entretexedor; texedor tal (tal is texer vno con > otro como esteras o cosa assi). +post.as.noun.1>. 71m2-25| > xinepanoh =tla. entretexedor de algo; texedor tal (tal is texer vno > con otro como esteras o cosa assi). prt1 +post.as.noun.1>. 71m2-25| > xinepanoliztli =tla [scribal error: ??: 55m]. texedura assi (assi is > texer vno con otro como esteras o cosa assi). caus06-liz +post.as.noun.1>. 55m-19| > xinepanoliztli =tla. texedura assi (texer vno con otro como esteras > o cosa assi); entretexedura; o el acto de entretexer. pan-v03a-caus06-liz +post.as.noun.1>. 71m1-20| > xinepanolli =tla. cosa entretexida; entretexida cosa; texido desta > manera (desta manera is texer vno con otro como esteras o cosa > assi). . 71m2-25| > > count 228 > > *post.as.noun.2 *** > aahhuictlaza =nite. echar de aca para aculla a alguno, empuxandolo. > . 71m1-9| > ahhuichuetzi =n. caerse a vna parte y a otra. +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-2| > ahhuichuetzi =n=onahhuichuetz. bambanearse. +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-2| > ahhuictlaloa =nin=oninahhuictlaloh. correr de aca para aculla. p54-ah1-hui:c-tlaloa: +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-2| > ahhuictlaz =te. arrojador tal (tal is arrojar o empuxar a alguno de > aca para alla). . 71m1- > 3| > ahhuictlaza =nin. bueltas dar en la cama; bueltas o buelcos dar en la > cama. . 55m-2| > ahhuictlaza =nin=oninahuictlaz. desasossegarse el enfermo dando > buelcos del dolor que padece. +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-2| > ahhuictlaza =nite. arrojar o empuxar a alguno de aca para alla; echar > de aca para aculla a alguno; empuxandolo. +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-3| > ahhuictlazaliztli =te. arrojamiento assi (assi is arrojar o empuxar > a alguno de aca para alla). +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-3| > ahhuictlazalli =tla. echado assi (assi is echar de aca para aculla a > alguno, empuxandolo). . > 71m1-9| > ahhuictlaztli =tla. arrojado assi (assi is arrojar o empuxar a > alguno de aca para alla); echado assi (assi is echar de aca para > aculla a alguno; empuxandolo). +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-3| > ahhuictopehua =nite. arrojar o empuxar a alguno de aca para alla. > . 71m1-3| > ahhuictopehualiztli =te. arrojamiento assi (assi is arrojar o > empuxar a alguno de aca para alla). +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-3| > ahhuictopeuh =te. arrojador tal (tal is arrojar o empuxar a alguno > de aca para alla). . > 71m1-3| > ahhuictopeuhtli =tla. arrojado assi (assi is arrojar o empuxar a > alguno de aca para alla). +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-3| > ahhuicyaliztli. bambaneamiento, o vagueacion. +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-2| > ahhuicyani. vagamundo. . 71m2- > 2| > ahhuicyauh =n. caerse a vna parte y a otra. +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-2| > ahhuicyauh =n=onahhuicya. vaguear, o ser vagamundo. yauh1 +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-2| > cepanahhua =mo. re?ir vnos con otros. tratarse mal vnos a otros los > vezinos y parientes. . 71m1- > 18| > huechiliztli =ahhuic. cayda a vna parte y a otra; bambaneamiento. > ch +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-2| > huetzqui =ahhuic. caydo assi (assi is cayda a vna parte y a otra). > . 55m-2| > huictlazani =te. echador tal (tal is echar de aca para aculla a > alguno, empuxandolo). . 71m1- > 9| > huictlazqui =te. echador tal (tal is echar de aca para aculla a > alguno, empuxandolo). . > 71m1-9| > icanihtoani =te. murmurador. +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-16| > icanihtoh =te. murmurador. +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-16| > icanihtoliztli =te. murmuracion. +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-16| > icxinetechmotla =nino [[ocxinetechmotla =nin]]. cutir el vn touillo > con el otro caminando, i, herir o ludir el vn touillo con el otro > lastimandose. x +a>i > +mis_analysis.2 +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-6| > icxinetechmotla =nino=oninocxinetechmotlac. ludir el vn^touillo conel > otro lastimandose el que camina. +embed +z>x +a>i +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-6| > milnetechana =nite. alindar vna eredad con otra. tech1-a:na1 +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-00| > milnetechana =nite=onitemilnetechan. alindar mi heredad con la de > otro. . 71m2- > 10| > nehuammana , quin-. he places them together. caus09 +embed +post.as.noun.2>. b.6 f.4 p.45| > nehuammanaya , quin-. they placed them together. mani-caus09-ya3 +embed +post.as.noun.2>. b.9 f.7 p.88| > nehuanhuihuixoa =nitla. mecer vno con otro. huixahui-caus06 +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-13| > nehuanhuihuixoa =nitla=onitlanehuanhuihuixo. sacudir, o menear y > mecer dos cosas juntamente. caus06 +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-12| > nehuanhuihuixoani =tla. mecedor tal (tal is mecer vno con otro). > . > 55m-13| > nehuanhuihuixoliztli =tla. mecedura tal (tal is mecer vno con otro); > el acto de sacudir o mecer algunas cosas juntamente. hua:n1-dupl-huixahui-caus06-liz +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-13| > nehuanhuihuixolli =tla. mecido assi (assi is mecer vno con otro); > cosas sacudidas o mecidas juntamente. caus06-l1 +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-13| > nehuanilpia =nite. atraillar perros o cosas semejantes. hua:n1-ilpia: +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-3| > nehuanilpia =nitla. atar una cosa con otra; atar vna cosa con otra. > . 55m-1| > nehuanilpia =nitla=onitlanehuanilpih. atar vna cosa con otra. p51-poss-hua:n1-ilpia: +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-12| > nehuanilpiani =tla. atrauillador tal (tal is atraillar perros o > cosas semejantes). +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-3| > nehuanilpiliztli =tla. atadura assi (assi is atar una cosa con > otra); atadura tal (tal is atar vna cosa con otra); atadura de vna > cosa con otra. . > 55m-1| > nehuanilpilli =tla. atada cosa assi (assi is atar vna cosa con > otra); cosa atada juntamente con otra. +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-3| > nehuanilpiltih =tla. atrauillados assi (assi is atraillar perros o > cosas semejantes). +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-3| > nehuantenehua =niquin=oniquinnehuanteneuh. nombrar a ambos ados. > . 71m2-12| > nenepantlazohtlaltia =nite=onitenenepantlazohtlalti. hazer que se > amen vnos a otros, o hazer amistades. v08a-l1-v04-caus08 +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-12| > nenetechilpilli , tla-. something tied together. ilpia:-l1 +embed +post.as.noun.2>. b.11 f.27 p.282| > nenetechmana , mo-. they are put together. caus09 +embed +post.as.noun.2>. b.9 f.7 p.96| > nenetechtlalia , tiquimon-. we put them together. poss-tech1-tla:lia: +embed +post.as.noun.2>. b.4 f.10 p.106| > nepammatiloa =nitla. fregar vno con otro. teloa: +e>i +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-10| > nepammatiloa =nitla=onitlanepammatiloh. fregar, o refregar vna cosa > con otra. i +embed > +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-12| > nepammatiloliztli =tla. fregadura tal (tal is fregar vno con otro). > i +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 55m- > 10| > nepammatilolli =tla. fregado assi (assi is fregar vno con otro). > i +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 55m- > 10| > nepammotla =tic. tirar dos juntamente y acertar ambos alo que tiran. > . 55m-19| > nepammotla =titla=otitlanepammotlaqueh. tirar y acertar muchos > juntamente a lo que se tira. +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-12| > nepampalehuia , mo-. they help one another. +embed +post.as.noun.2>. b.6 f.20 p.251| > nepampatiyotia =nitla. mercar en vno. yo:tl1-v04-caus08 +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-13| > nepancohua =nitla. mercar en vno. +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-13| > nepanhuihuixoa =nitla. mecer vno con otro. huixahui-caus06 +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-13| > nepanhuihuixoa =nitla=onitlanepanhuihuixoh. sacudir o mecer > juntamente dos cosas. +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-12| > nepanhuihuixoani =tla. mecedor tal (tal is mecer vno con otro); > sacudidor o mecedor de algunas cosas; juntamente. huixahui-caus06-ni1 +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-13| > nepanhuihuixoliztli =tla. mecedura tal (tal is mecer vno con otro); > sacudimiento tal (tal is sacudidor o mecedor de algunas cosas; > juntamente). +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-13| > nepanhuihuixolli =tla. mecido assi (assi is mecer vno con otro); > cosa sacudida assi (assi is sacudidor o mecedor de algunas cosas; > juntamente). +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-13| > nepanicnelia =tito=otitonepanicnelihqueh. hazer bien los vnos alos > otros. . 71m2- > 12| > nepanicneliliztli =ne. beneficio que los vnos alos otros se hazen. > . 71m2-12| > nepanicnelilo =ne=onenepanicneliloc. hazense bien los vnos alos > otros. . 71m2- > 12| > nepannahuatecqueh , omo-. . <+embed +post.as.noun.2>. b.9 f.2 p.23| > nepantlahpaloa =tito. saludarse vno a otro. tlahpalli-v03a-caus06 +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-18| > nepantlahpaloa =tito=otitonepantlahpalohqueh. nepanotl titotlapaloa>. +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-12| > nepantlahpaloliztli =ne. salutacion assi (assi is saludarse vno a > otro); salutacion de vnos a otros. caus06-liz +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-18| > nepantlapopolhuiah =mo=omonepantlapopolhuihqueh. los que se perdonan > vnos a otros. +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-10| > nepantlaxeloaya , mo-. they divided themselves into two equal parts. > . > b.2 f.7 p.119| > nepantlazohtla =mo. los que entre si se aman. l2-v08a +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-10| > nepantlazohtlaliztli =ne. amor con que se aman los vnos alos otros. > . 71m2-12| > nepantlazohtlalo =ne. amarse vnos a otros. v08a-lo:1 +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-12| > nepantlazohtlaya , mo-. they esteemed each other; they loved each > other. . > b.9 f.2 p.23| > nepantzahtzilia =tito=otitonepantzahtzilihqueh. llamar o dar bozes > losvnos alos otros, o prouocarse a dar priesa los que trabajan. p54-poss-pan-tzahtzi-ben +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-12| > nepanxacualoa =nitla. fregar vno con otro. v03a-caus06 +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-10| > nepanxacualoa =nitla=onitlanepanxacualoh. fregar o refregar vna cosa > con otra. +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-12| > nepanxacualoliztli =tla. fregadura tal (tal is fregar vno con otro); > refregadura de vna cosa con otra. liz +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-10| > nepanxacualolli =tla. fregado assi (assi is fregar vno con otro); > cosa refregada assi (assi is refregadura de vna cosa con otra). > . 55m- > 10| > netechachalatza =mo=omonetechachalatz. cutir, o herirse vnas cosas > con otras. ch +embed > +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-10| > netechachalatza =nitla. cutir vna vasija con otra. tech1-dupl-chala:ni-tza +chch>ch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-6| > netechachalatza =nitla=onitlanetechachalatz. cutir o herir vna cosa > con otra. ch +embed > +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-12| > netechachalatzaliztli =tla. herida o el acto de herir o cutir vnas > cosas con otras. ch > +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-22| > netechahhua =mo. re?ir vnos con otros. +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-17| > netechahhua =mo [scribal error: ??printing error: moueteehaua for > monetechaua: 71m1]. re?ir vnos con otros. tratarse mal vnos a otros > los vezinos y parientes. +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-18| > netechahhua =mo=omonetechahhuaqueh. re?ir vnos con otros. tech1-ahhua +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-10| > netechahxitia =nitla. hazer llegar vna cosa a otra juntandolas. p51-poss-tech1-ahci-caus02 +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-12| > netechahxitia =nitla=onitlanetechahxiti. hazer llegar, o juntar vna > cosa con otra. +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-12| > netechahxitiani =tla. hazedor tal (tal is hazer llegar vna cosa a > otra juntandolas). +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-12| > netechahxitihqui =tla. hazedor tal (tal is hazer llegar vna cosa a > otra juntandolas). +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-12| > netechalania , te-. he arouses bad feeling among people. tech1-chala:ni-caus08 +embed +chch>ch +post.as.noun.2>. b.11 f.6 > p.52| > netechalania =mo. cutir vn hueuo con otro, o cosa assi. tech1-chala:ni-caus08 +chch>ch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-6| > netechalania =mo=omonetechalani. cutir, o herirse vnas cosas con > otras. ch +embed > +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-10| > netechalania =nite. desconcertar o enemistar a otros; discordia > poner. ch +embed > +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-7| > netechalania =nite [scribal error: ??printing error: netechalama =nite > for netechalania =nite; porrua has 'm', but the facsimile (1944) has > 'ni': 71m1]. reboluer o turbar a otros. chala:ni-caus08 +chch>ch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-18| > netechalania =nite [scribal error: ??printing error: netechalama, nite > for netechalania, nite; 1944 facsimile has the correct form, but the > porrua edition contains the misreading of "ni" as "m": 71m1]. > sembrar discordias. ch > +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-19| > netechalania =nite=onitenetechalani. reboluer a otros. tech1-chala:ni-caus08 +chch>ch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-12| > netechalania =nitla. cutir vn hueuo con otro, o cosa assi; cutir vna > vasija con otra; herir vna cosa con otra. chala:ni-caus08 +chch>ch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-6| > netechalania =nitla=onitlanetechalanih. cutir o herir vna cosa con > otra. ch +embed > +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-12| > netechalania =tito. contender vnos con otros; debatir o porfiar y > contender vnos con otros; porfiar o debatir vnos con otros. poss-tech1-chala:ni-caus08 +chch>ch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1- > 5| > netechalania =tito=otitonetechalanihqueh. contender vnos con otros. > ch +embed > +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-12| > netechalaniani =te. reboluedor que mete mal entre otros. tech1-chala:ni-caus08-ni1 +chch>ch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2- > 17| > netechalaniliztli =te. desconcierto tal (tal is desconcertar a otros > enemistandolos). ch > +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-5| > netechalaniliztli =tla. herida assi (assi is herir vna cosa con > otra). ch +embed > +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-13| > netechalaniliztli =te. el acto de reboluer a otros assi. s. aquella > contienda y discordia (assi is reboluedor que mete mal entre > otros). ch +embed > +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-17| > netechalaniliztli =tla. el acto de herir o cutir vna cosa con otra. > ch +embed > +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-22| > netechalanilli =tla. cosa herida o cutida con otra. chala:ni-caus08=0-l1 +chch>ch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-22| > netechanaya , mo-. they were paired with each other. a:na1-ya3 +embed +post.as.noun.2>. b.9 f.7 p.88| > netechantihui =ti=otinetechantiaque. yr asidos vnos de otros. tech1-a:na1-prt1-ti1-yauh2 aux14b +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-12| > netechantimani xocomecamilli =mo. pago de vi?as o vi?edo. tech1-a:na1-prt1-ti1-mani xocotl-mecatl-mi:lli aux04 +embed > +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-15| > netechantiuh =omotechantia [scribal error: ??multiple problems: 1) ne- > does not appear in the preterit; 2) mo- does not appear in the > present; molina usually uses first person form unless the action is > obviously not a human one: 71m2]. yr seguido y junto lo vno con lo > otro. +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-12| > netechantiuh =mo. yr alguna cosa seguida o continuada, o eslauonada. > . > 71m2-10| > netechcacalatza =mo. herirse vnas cosas con otras. dupl-cala:ni1-tza +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-11| > netechcacalatza =mo=omonetechcacalatz. lo mismo es que > motechachalatza. +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-10| > netechcacalatzaliztli =tla. herida assi (assi is herirse vnas cosas > con otras); . dupl-cala:ni1-tza-liz +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-11| > netechcalania =nitla. herir vna cosa con otra (tal is herir con > vara); herir vna cosa con otra. +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-11| > netechcalania =nitla=onitlanetechcalani. cutir, o herir vna cosa con > otra. . > 71m2-12| > netechcalaniliztli =tla. herida assi (assi is herir vna cosa con > otra); . cala:ni1-caus08=0-liz +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-11| > netechchachalatza =mo. herirse vnas cosas con otras. dupl-chala:ni-tza +chch>chch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-11| > netechchachalatza =nitla. cutir vna vasija con otra. tech1-dupl-chala:ni-tza +chch>chch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-4| > netechchachalatzaliztli =tla. herida assi (assi is herirse vnas > cosas con otras). chch > +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-11| > netechchalania =mo. cutir vno con otro; tocar vna vasija con otra. > chch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. > 55m-4| > netechchalania =nite. desconcertar a otros enemistandolos; discordia > poner. ch +embed > +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-5| > netechchalania =nitla. cutir vna vasija con otra; herir vna cosa con > otra (tal is herir con vara); quebrar vna cosa a otra; quebrar vna > cosa con otra. chch +embed > +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-4| > netechchalaniani =te. malsin. +chch>chch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-13| > netechchalaniliztli =tla. herida assi (assi is herir vna cosa con > otra). chch +embed > +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-11| > netechchalanilli =tla. desconcertado assi (assi is desconcertar a > otros enemistandolos). ch > +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-5| > netechchihchiqui =nitla. ludir o fregar vna cosa con otra. poss-tech1-dupl-ihchiqui +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-12| > netechehua =nite. desconcertar a otros enemistandolos; desconcertar o > enemistar a otros; discordia poner; reboluer o turbar a otros; > sembrar discordias. +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-5| > netechehua =nite=onitenetecheuh. ser malsin, o reboluer a otros. p52-poss-tech1-e:hua +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-12| > netechehua =nitla. ludir o fregar vna cosa con otra. tech1-e:hua +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-12| > netechehua =nitla=onitlanetecheuh. refregar vna cosa con otra. p51-poss-tech1-e:hua +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-12| > netechehua =te. chismero. +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-4| > netechehualiztli =te. desconcierto tal (tal is desconcertar a otros > enemistandolos); desconcierto tal (tal is desconcertar o enemistar > a otros); (assi is reboluedor > que mete mal entre otros). +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-5| > netechehuani =te. desconcertador assi (assi is desconcertar o > enemistar a otros); lo mesmo es que netechalaniani; malsin; > reboluedor que mete mal entre algunos. +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-7| > netecheuh =te. lo mesmo es que netechalaniani. +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-17| > netecheuhtinemi , te-. he goes about causing dissension. tech1-e:hua-ti1-nemi aux01 +embed +post.as.noun.2>. b.4 f.3 p.30| > netecheuhtli =tla. desconcertado assi (assi is desconcertar a otros > enemistandolos). . > 55m-5| > netechhuitequi =nitla. herir vna cosa con otra (tal is herir con > vara); herir vna cosa con otra. +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-11| > netechhuitequi =nitla=onitlanetechhuitec. herir vna cosa con otra. > . 71m2-12| > netechhuitequiliztli =tla. herida assi (assi is herir vna cosa con > otra); herida o encuentro de vna cosa con otra. hui:tequi-liz +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-11| > netechihchiqui =nitla. ludir o fregar vna cosa con otra. poss-tech1-dupl-ihchiqui +chch>ch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-14| > netechihchiqui =nitla=onitlanetechichic. refregar vna cosa con otra. > ch +embed +post.as.noun.2>. > 71m2-12| > netechihtzoma =nitla. coser vna cosa con otra. ihtzoma +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-4| > netechihtzoma =nitla=onitlanetechitzon. coser vna cosa con otra. p51-poss-tech1-ihtzoma +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-12| > netechihtzomani =tla. cosedor tal (tal is coser vna cosa con otra). > . 71m1-6| > netechihtzonqui =tla. cosedor tal (tal is coser vna cosa con otra). > . 71m1-6| > netechihtzontli , tla-. something sewn together. ihtzoma-l2 +embed +post.as.noun.2>. b.2 f.9 p.156| > netechihtzontli =tla. cosida cosa assi (assi is coser vna cosa con > otra). . 71m1-6| > netechilpia , con-. they tie it together. +embed +post.as.noun.2>. b.6 f.11 p.131| > netechilpia , quin-. they tie them together. +embed +post.as.noun.2>. b.6 f.11 p.131| > netechilpia =nite. atraillar perros o cosa assi; atraillar perros o > cosas semejantes. +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-1| > netechilpia =nitla. atar una cosa con otra; atar vna cosa con otra. > . 55m-1| > netechilpia =nitla=onitlanetechilpi. atar vna cosa con otra, o > trayllar galgos. &c. +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-12| > netechilpiani =te. atrauillador tal (tal is atraillar perros o cosas > semejantes). . > 71m1-3| > netechilpiani =tla. atrauillador tal (tal is atraillar perros o > cosas semejantes). +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-3| > netechilpiaya , quine-. they tied it together. ilpia:-ya3 +embed +post.as.noun.2>. b.1 f.2 p.47| > netechilpih , otech-. he tied us together. prt1 +embed +post.as.noun.2>. b.6 f.12 p.146| > netechilpiliztli =tla. atadura assi (assi is atar una cosa con > otra); atadura tal (tal is atar vna cosa con otra); el acto de atar > vna cosa con otra. +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-1| > netechilpilli =tla. atada cosa assi (assi is atar vna cosa con > otra); cosa atada a otra; o con otra. +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-3| > netechilpiltin =tla. atrauillados assi (assi is atraillar perros o > cosas semejantes). +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-3| > netechixnamiqui =tito. contender vnos con otros; debatir o porfiar y > contender vnos con otros; porfiar o debatir vnos con otros. poss-tech1-i:xtli-na:miqui +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-5| > netechixnamiqui =tito=otitonetechixnamique. contender vnos con otros. > . 71m2- > 12| > netechmictihqueh , mo-. they killed one another. miqui-caus02-prt1-plur01 +embed +post.as.noun.2>. b.12 f.5 p.72| > netechmotla =mo. cutir vno con otro; cutir vn hueuo con otro; o cosa > assi; herirse vnas cosas con otras. +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-4| > netechmotla =mo=omonetechmotlac. lo mismo es que motechachalatza. > . 71m2-10| > netechmotla =nitla. cutir vn hueuo con otro, o cosa assi; herir vna > cosa con otra (tal is herir con vara); herir vna cosa con otra; > quebrar vna cosa a otra; quebrar vna cosa con otra. tech1-mo:tla +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-6| > netechmotla =nitla=onitlanetechmotlac. cutir, o herir vna cosa con > otra. . 71m2-12| > netechmotla =tito. toparse assi ambos (assi is topar con otro no > aduertiendo). . > 55m-19| > netechmotlaliztli =tla. herida assi (assi is herir vna cosa con > otra); herida assi (assi is herirse vnas cosas con otras); mesmo es que tlanetechalanilizli>. +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-11| > netechmotlalli =tla. . tech1-mo:tla-l1 +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-22| > netechmotlani =tla. el que hiere o cute vna cosa con otra. tech1-mo:tla-ni1 +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-22| > netechnamictiliztli =tla. iuntura assi (assi is iuntar o ayuntar vna > cosa con otra). +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-11| > netechpachoa =nitla. ayuntar vna cosa a otra; allegar vna cosa a > otra; iuntar o ayuntar vna cosa con otra; ayuntar o allegar vna cosa > a otra; arrimar algo a otra cosa. caus06 +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-00| > netechpachoa =nitla=onitlanetechpacho. o arrimar algo a otra cosa>. +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-12| > netechpachoani =tla. ayuntador tal (tal is ayuntar o allegar vna > cosa a otra); arrimador tal (tal is arrimar algo a otra cosa). poss-tech1-pachihui-caus06-ni1 +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-2| > netechpacholiztli =tla. ayuntamiento assi (assi is ayuntar vna cosa > a otra); iuntura assi (assi is iuntar o ayuntar vna cosa con otra). > . 55m- > 00| > netechpacholiztli =tla [scribal error: ??same as first item in this > entry: 55m]. iuntura assi (assi is iuntar o ayuntar vna cosa con > otra). . > 55m-11| > netechpacholiztli =tla. ayuntamiento assi (assi is ayuntar o allegar > vna cosa a otra); iuntura assi (assi is iuntar o ayuntar vna cosa > con otra); el acto de ayuntar vna cosa a otra; o con otra. tech1-pachihui-caus06-liz +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-2| > netechpacholli =tla. ayuntada cosa assi (assi is ayuntar o allegar > vna cosa a otra); arrimada cosa assi (assi is arrimar algo a otra > cosa); cosa ayuntada a otra; o con otra. caus06-l1 +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-2| > netechpiqui =nitla. tupir algo. +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-20| > netechpiqui =nitla=onitlanetechpic. tupir algo. pi:qui2 +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-12| > netechtlalia =nitla. ayuntar mantas cosiendolas vnas con otras o cosa > assi; iuntar o ayuntar vna cosa con otra; ayuntar o juntar mantas > vnas con otras cosiendolas. +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-00| > netechtlalia =nitla=onitlanetechtlalih. juntar mantas cosiendolas > vnas con otras, o cosa semejante. +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-12| > netechtlaliani =tla. ayuntador tal (tal is ayuntar o juntar mantas > vnas con otras cosiendolas). +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-2| > netechtlaliliztli =tla. ayuntamiento tal (tal is ayuntar mantas > cosiendolas vnas con otras o cosa assi); iuntura assi (assi is > iuntar o ayuntar vna cosa con otra); ayuntamiento tal (tal is > ayuntar o juntar mantas vnas con otras cosiendolas); el acto de > juntar o pegar vna manta a otra; o cosa semejante. tla:lia:-liz +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-00| > netechtlalilli =tla. ayuntadas mantas assi (assi is ayuntar o juntar > mantas vnas con otras cosiendolas); cosa ayuntada o pegada assi > (assi is el acto de juntar o pegar vna manta a otra; o cosa > semejante). . > 71m1-2| > netechtlapana =nitla. cutir hueuos; quebrar vna cosa a otra; quebrar > vna cosa con otra. +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-4| > netechtlapana =nitla=onitlanetechtlapan. quebrar alguna vasija con > otra, o cosa assi. +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-12| > netechxacualoa =nite. fregar vno con otro. xacualli-v03a-caus06 +embed +chx>chx +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-12| > netechxacualoa =nitla. fregar vno con otro; ludir o fregar vna cosa > con otra. chx > +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-10| > netechxacualoliztli =tla. fregadura tal (tal is fregar vno con > otro). chx > +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-10| > netechxacualolli =tla. fregado assi (assi is fregar vno con otro). > chx > +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-10| > netechxamania =nitla. cutir hueuos. caus08 +embed +chx>chx +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-4| > netechxamania =nitla=onitlanetechaxamani. cutir o quebrar los hueuos > vnos con otros, o las xicalas y cosas semejantes. tech1-xama:ni-caus08 +embed +chx>chx +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-12| > netechyehua , te-. . ye +post.as.noun.2>. > b.10 f.2 p.38| > netechzaloa =nitla. ayuntar mantas cosiendolas vnas con otras o cosa > assi; iuntar o ayuntar vna cosa con otra; pegar dos cosas; soldar > con plomo. chz > +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-00| > netechzaloliztli =tla. ayuntamiento tal (tal is ayuntar mantas > cosiendolas vnas con otras o cosa assi); iuntura assi (assi is > iuntar o ayuntar vna cosa con otra); pegadura tal (tal is pegar dos > cosas); . v03a-caus06-liz +embed +chz>chz +post.as.noun.2>. 55m-00| > netechzalolli =tla. ; pegada cosa > assi (assi is pegar dos cosas). l1 +embed +chz>chz +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-22| > netezaloa =nitla. ayuntar o juntar mantas vnas con otras cosiendolas. > z > +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-2| > netezaloa =nitla=onitlanetezaloh. pegar o juntar vna cosa con otra. > z > +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-12| > netezaloani =tla. ayuntador tal (tal is ayuntar o juntar mantas vnas > con otras cosiendolas). +chz>z +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-2| > netezaloliztli =tla. ayuntamiento tal (tal is ayuntar o juntar > mantas vnas con otras cosiendolas). caus06-liz +embed +chz>z +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-2| > netezalolli =tla. ayuntadas mantas assi (assi is ayuntar o juntar > mantas vnas con otras cosiendolas). caus06-l1 +embed +chz>z +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-2| > pachiuhtiuh , netech-. they go pressed against us. pachihui-prt1-ti1-yauh2 aux14b +post.as.noun.2>. b.12 f.7 p.114| > quequeyolnetechmotla =nino. ludir el vn touillo con el otro,andando. > . 71m1- > 14| > quequeyolnetechmotla =nino=oninoquequeyolnetechmotlac. ludir el vn > touillo conelotro, quando caminamos y nos lastimamos. quequeyolli-poss-tech1-mo:tla +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-15| > queyolnetechmotlaliztli. ludimiento assi (assi is ludir el vn > touillo con el otro,andando). +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-14| > tecanecacayahualiz , i-. his deceit. liz +embed +post.as.noun.2>. b.11 f.7 p.69| > tecanecayahualiz , i-. his deceit. +embed +post.as.noun.2>. b.6 f.18 p.231| > teicanihtoa =nite=oniteteicanitoh. detraer, o murmurar de otros. p52-poss-i:can-ihtahui-caus06 +embed +post.as.noun.2>. 71m2-16| > tlahtlanxima , te-. they repeatedly commit adultery. +embed +post.as.noun.2>. b.4 f.5 p.51| > tlocpaihcani , te-. intercessor. +post.as.noun.2>. b.10 f.2 p.32| > topanehua , mo-. it rises above us. +post.as.noun.2>. b.11 f.11 p.107| > xocomecamilli =monetechantimani. pago de vi?as o vi?edo. tech1-a:na1-prt1-ti1-mani xocotl-mecatl-mi:lli aux04 +embed > +post.as.noun.2>. 71m1-16| > yahqui =ahhuic. caydo assi (assi is cayda a vna parte y a otra); > caydo assi. . 55m-2| > yayaliztli =ahhuic. cayda a vna parte y a otra; bambaneamiento; o > vagueacion. . 55m-2| > zaliuhticateh. they are adhering. aux11a +post.as.noun.2>. b.4 f.10 p.106| > > count 360 > > *post.as.noun.3 *** > altepetlalli =anepantlah ca. ysla tierra cercada de agua. pan-tlah2 ca:1a a:tl1-tepe:tl-tla:lli +post.as.noun.3>. 55m-12| > anepantlah. in the middle of the water, in the middle of the lagoon. > . b.2 f.3 p.70| > calacqui =anepantlah. engolfado. c2 +post.as.noun.3>. 55m-8| > calaqui =anepantlah ni. engolfarse. +post.as.noun.3>. 55m-8| > cehuiliztli =nepantlah tonatiuh ne. siesta en el medio del dia. pan-tlah2 to:n2-v12-ti1-yauh p53-ce:tl-v11-caus08=0-liz aux14b > +post.as.noun.3>. 71m1-19| > cehuiliztli tonaltzitzicaliztli =nepantla tonatiuh ne [scribal error: > ??split??: 55m]. siesta enel medio del dia. v12-ti1-yauh -- p53-ce:tl-v11-caus08=0-liz to:n2-v12-l1-tzitzica-liz > +post.as.noun.3>. 55m-18| > chaneh =cuauhnepantlah. morador de bosque. cha:ntli-eh1 +post.as.noun.3>. 55m-14| > cuanepantlah , i-. crown of his head; crown of its head; in the > middle of his forehead; in the middle of its head; on the crown of > his head; on the crown of its head; the crown of his head; the crown > of its head. . b.8 f.5 > p.76| > cuanepantlah , in-. on the crown of their heads. pan-tlah2 +post.as.noun.3>. b.2 f.6 p.114| > cuauhnepantlah. lo interior o el medio del desierto o del monte. > . 71m2-15| > cuauhnepantlah. middle of a forest. +post.as.noun.3>. b.5 f.1 p.153| > elelquixtiloyan =nepantlah tonatiuh ne. sesteadero lugar de siesta. > ya:n aux14b +z>x +l.for.ll +post.as.noun.3>. 55m-18| > ellelquixtia =nepantlah tonatiuh nin. sestear tener la siestra; > sestear tener la siesta en algun lugar. ti1-yauh p11-p54-e:llelli-qui:za-caus02 aux14b +z>x > +post.as.noun.3>. 55m-18| > ellelquixtiliztli =nepantlah tonatiuh ne. siesta enel medio del dia; > siesta en el medio del dia. e:llelli-qui:za-caus02-liz aux14b +z>x +post.as.noun.3>. 55m-18| > huehuetzi =nepantlah. nones. +post.as.noun.3>. 55m-14| > huetzi =nepantlah. nones. . > 71m2-12| > ihcac =nepantlah. medianero como quiera; medianero; o cosa que esta > en medio de algo. . 55m- > 13| > ihcaliztli =nepantlah. medianeria desta manera (desta manera is > medianero como quiera). . > 55m-13| > ithualnepantlah. in the middle of the courtyard. tlah2 +post.as.noun.3>. b.2 f.2 p.59| > macpalnepantla , i-. . +post.as.noun.3>. b.9 f.3 p.35| > macpalnepantlah , i-. in the middle of the palm of his hand. ma:itl-icpatl-l3-poss-pan-tlah2 +post.as.noun.3>. b.9 f.3 p.34| > nemi =cuauhnepantlah. morador de bosque. nemi +post.as.noun.3>. 55m-14| > nemi =tenepantlah ni. chismear; reboluer o turbar a otros; sembrar > discordias; reboluer a otros; o ser malsin. nemi +post.as.noun.3>. 55m-4| > nemi =tenepantlah tetzalan ni=tenepantlah tetzalan oninen. el acto de > reboluer aotros o meter mal entre otros. tza:lan p11-nemi +post.as.noun.3>. 71m2-17| > nemiliztli =tenepantlah. el acto de reboluer aotros. tlah2 nemi-liz +post.as.noun.3>. 71m2-17| > nemini =tenepantlah. chismero; malsin y reboluedor de otros. poss-pan-tlah2 nemi-ni1 +post.as.noun.3>. 55m-4| > nemini =tetzalan tenepantlah. malsin; o reboltoso. poss-pan-tlah2 nemi-ni1 +post.as.noun.3>. 55m-13| > nepantlah. . . b.2 f.6 p.116| > nepantlah. medianamente assi. . 71m1- > 15| > nepantlah , i-. ; at its zenith; in the middle of it; in the midst of > it; in the center of it; its center. +post.as.noun.3>. b.6 f.16 p.203| > nepantlah , in-. among them; between them; in the middle of them; in > the midst of them. . b.12 f.3 > p.48| > nepantlah , te-. among people; in the middle of people. pan-tlah2 +post.as.noun.3>. b.1 f.1 p.5| > nepantlah , tla-. ; in the middle. +post.as.noun.3>. b.4 f.3 p.23| > nepantlah =te. en medio de algunos, o entre otros; entre algunos. > . 71m2-17| > nepantlah. among people; in the middle; in the middle of it; in the > midst of it; middle. . b.10 f.1 > p.16| > nepantlahquixtiliztli =tla. reduzimiento assi (assi is reduzir al > medio). x > +post.as.noun.3>. 55m-17| > nepantlahtectli =tla. cortada cosa assi (assi is cortar por medio). > . 71m1-5| > nepantlahtequi =nitla. cortar por medio. tequi1 +embed +post.as.noun.3>. 55m-4| > nepantlahtequi =nitla=onitlanepantlahtec. cortar algo por medio. p51-poss-pan-tlah2-tequi1 +embed +post.as.noun.3>. 71m2-12| > nepantlahtequiliztli =tla. cortadura assi (assi is cortar por > medio). . > 71m1-5| > nepantlahtlaxilia =ticto. culpa echar vno a otro; culpa echar el vno > al otro. x > +post.as.noun.3>. 55m-4| > nepantlahtlaxilia =ticto=otictonepantlahtlaxilique. echar la culpa de > algo, el vno al otro. +z>x +post.as.noun.3>. 71m2-19| > nepantlahtli. el medio entre dos estremidades; medio entre dos > estremos. . 71m2-12| > nepantlahtzayana =nitla. romper por medio. tzaya:ni-caus09 +embed +post.as.noun.3>. 55m-17| > nepantlahtzayana =nitla=onitlanepantlahtzayan. rasgar algo por medio. > . > 71m2-12| > ohnepanco. encrucijada de caminos; encruzijada de caminos. poss-pan-co1 +post.as.noun.3>. 71m2-13| > pantlah , ne-. in the middle. . b.2 > f.10 p.165| > pantlah =ne. enel medio, o en medio, o por el medio. aduerbio. pan-tlah2 +post.as.noun.3>. 71m2-12| > quetzaliztli =tenepantlah mo. medianeria desta manera (desta manera > is medianero como quiera). +post.as.noun.3>. 55m-13| > quetzani =tenepantlah mo. medianero como quiera; el que se pone > en^medio delos que ri?en para poner los empaz. p54-quetza-ni1 +post.as.noun.3>. 55m-13| > quixtia =nepantlah nic. reduzir al medio. qui:za-caus02 +z>x +post.as.noun.3>. 55m-17| > quixtia =nepantlah nic=nepantlah oniquixtih. reduzir algo al medio. > x +post.as.noun.3>. 71m2- > 12| > quiza titlantli =nepantlah. mensajero entre dos; mensagero entre dos. > . 55m-13| > quizani , tenepantlah -. one who settles quarrels. tlah2 qui:za-ni1 +post.as.noun.3>. b.10 f.1 p.15| > teca =tenepantlah nino. chismear; reboluer o turbar a otros; sembrar > discordias. . 55m- > 4| > teca =tenepantlah nino=tenepantlah oninotecac. el acto de reboluer > aotros o meter mal entre otros. +post.as.noun.3>. 71m2-17| > tecani , tenepantlah mo-. one who sows discord among people. poss-pan-tlah2 p54-te:ca-ni1 +post.as.noun.3>. b.10 f.1 p.7| > tecani =tenepantlah mo. chismero; malsin y reboluedor de otros. poss-pan-tlah2 p54-te:ca-ni1 +post.as.noun.3>. 55m-4| > tecani =tetzalan tenepantlah mo. malsin; malsin que mete mal entre > otros. +post.as.noun.3>. 55m-13| > tecatinemi , tenepantlah mo-. he goes along gossiping. tlah2 p54-te:ca-ti1-nemi aux01 +post.as.noun.3>. b.11 f.8 p.79| > tecaya , tetzalan tenepantlah mo-. he brought discord among people. > . > b.1 f.1 p.5| > tenepantlah ninoquetza =tetzalan=tetzalan tenepantlah oninoquetz. > poner paz entre los que ri?en, o se acuchillan. poss-pan-tlah2 p11-p54-quetza +post.as.noun.3>. 71m2-19| > tenepantlah ninoteca =tetzalan=tetzalan tenepantlah oninotecac. ser > malsin y meter mal entre otros. p11-p54-te:ca +post.as.noun.3>. 71m2-19| > teochihualiztli =yohualnepantlah ne. maitines. tlah2 p53-teo:tl-chi:hua-liz +post.as.noun.3>. 55m-13| > tequiliztli =tenepantlah ne. el acto de reboluer aotros. pan-tlah2 p53-te:ca-liz +a>i +post.as.noun.3>. 71m2-17| > teteca =tenepantlah nino=tenepantlah oninotetecac. el acto de > reboluer aotros o meter mal entre otros. p54-dupl-te:ca +post.as.noun.3>. 71m2-17| > tianquiznepantlah. in the middle of the market place. lizb-poss-pan-tlah2 +post.as.noun.3>. b.3 f.2 p.27| > titlantli =nepantlahquiza. mensajero entre dos. qui:za ti:tlani-l2 +post.as.noun.3>. 71m1-15| > tlanepantlahquixtia , tla-. he reduces something to medium. poss-pan-tlah2-qui:za-caus02 +embed +post.as.noun.3>. b.10 f.2 > p.29| > tlanepantlahtequini =tla. cortador tal (tal is cortar por medio). > . 71m1- > 5| > tonalli =nepantlah. medio dia; media dia. l1 +post.as.noun.3>. 55m-13| > tonatiuh , nepantlah -. at midday; noon. ti1-yauh2 aux14b +post.as.noun.3>. b.1 f.2 p.31| > tonatiuh =nepantlah. medio dia; media dia. ti1-yauh2 aux14b +post.as.noun.3>. 55m-13| > tonatiuh neelelquixtiloyan =nepantlah [scribal error: > ??neelelquixtiloyan for neellelquixtiloyan: 71m1]. sesteadero lugar > de siesta. caus02-lo:2-ya:n aux14b +z>x +l.for.ll +post.as.noun.3>. 71m1-19| > yoalnepantlah. media noche, o amedia noche. +del.w +post.as.noun.3>. 71m2-7| > yoalnepantlah. at midnight; midnight; in the middle of the night. > . b.2 f.10 p.170| > yohualnepantlah. a^media noche; media noche; o amedia noche. l1-poss-pan-tlah2 +post.as.noun.3>. 71m1-2| > yohualnepantlah. at midnight; midnight; in the middle of the night. > . b.2 f.10 p.158| > > count 283 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Sat Nov 21 02:48:38 2009 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 21:48:38 -0500 Subject: Tloc, nahuac, tech, tlan In-Reply-To: <000601ca6a1e$89bae310$9d30a930$@net.mx> Message-ID: Quoting David Wright : > Joe: > > > > I was a bit puzzled by the "poss" label for the ne element in these > constructions, having previously only conceived of this morpheme as an > "indefinite reflexive prefix." Then I saw Andrews' brief treatment of this > as a "reciprocative possessor morph" meaning "one another's" and "each > other's" (Introduction to classical Nahuatl, 2nd. ed., p. 107). He says this > morpheme is "highly infrequent" and has a "more restricted meaning" than the > homophonous indefinite reflexive prefix (which he labels "a shuntline > reflexive/reciprocative-object morph" in his text [p. 57] and, mercifully, > "reflexive pronoun" in the index [p. 671]). Examples aren't provided in the > places I just cited, although he discusses nepan on pp. 484 and 485: "*nepan > = on one another, over one another [This NNC, whose possessor pronoun shows > reciprocal possession, occurs only as an imbed and as the source for the > adjectival NNC nepa:pan (...)]." So a bit of light begins to shine through > my mental fog. > I enjoyed reading your message, David. It also brought to mind a few possible uses of this, and I don't know if Andrews mentions these or not since his index is sometimes useless. In any event, here's what I remember: tonehuan, amonehuan, innehuan 'we/us two', 'you two', they/them two'. This ne- is also seen, I *think*, in necoc and necoccampa 'on both sides, from both sides'. Yeah, this is surely the same animal since we can also say nenecoc with basically the same meaning but implying more people, more things. Best, Michael _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Sat Nov 21 13:40:38 2009 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 08:40:38 -0500 Subject: running or racing Message-ID: Que lastima! In rereading this morning a message from Susana I noticed that I failed to write "h" in some of these "dance" terms below. -ihtohtia is the correct form. Racing while dancing. Michael ============================================================================== Nimitzihtotia "I dance with you,"literally "I dance you" Ninihtohtia "I dance" literally "I dance myself" (actually these forms are nimitzihto:tia: and ninihto:htia:...but for now we'll leave the long vowel markings to those, including myself :-), who are concerned with such things.) Netotiliztli is the correct form for the deverbal noun meaning "dancing," _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Sat Nov 21 14:05:41 2009 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 09:05:41 -0500 Subject: running or racing In-Reply-To: <20091121084038.oc9fpfw7kc44cc04@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: And with a long o:, of course. Quoting Michael McCafferty : > Que lastima! > > In rereading this morning a message from Susana I noticed that I failed > to write "h" in some of these "dance" terms below. > > -ihtohtia is the correct form. > > Racing while dancing. > > Michael > > =============================================================================== > > Nimitzihtotia "I dance with you,"literally "I dance you" > Ninihtohtia "I dance" literally "I dance myself" > > (actually these forms are nimitzihto:tia: and ninihto:htia:...but for > now we'll leave > the long vowel markings to those, including myself :-), who are > concerned with such > things.) > > Netotiliztli is the correct form for the deverbal noun meaning "dancing," > > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Sun Nov 22 01:59:35 2009 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 20:59:35 -0500 Subject: dancing In-Reply-To: <20091120210829.bpxzdblz8o48wwk8@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: Quoting Michael McCafferty : >> DANCE >> I have found IHTOTILIZTLI, MIHTOHTLI and NETOTILIZTLI. What are the >> sources for the last two? why starting with M? is that the reflexive >> version? and why does the last one start with NE? Which one is >> grammatically correct? > > Netotiliztli is the correct form for the deverbal noun meaning > "dancing," i.e., "the act of dancing". (-)ne- is an "impersonal" > reflexive pronoun used when forming "impersonal" forms such as > -liztli "nounings" and non-active impersonal forms such as necaco > 'people hear themselves', nezahualo 'there is fasting" (i.e., people > are fasting themselves), onequetzaloc 'people stood up'. I was troubled by the first line of my response all day today, or at least occasionally. The initial i- of ihtohtia shouldn't assimilate. So, when I got home tonight I checked Molina and found, indeed, 'neihtohtiliztli'. Sorry for the "interference". Michael > > I don't know about "IHTOTILIZTLI". It sounds strange and > ungrammatical. Seems to be missing the front end. > > However, "MIHTOHTLI" sounds o.k. for a noun meaning 'a dance' or 'the > dance' premised on the personal reflexive pronoun (-)mo-. > > >> >> DANCER >> I found MIHTOTIANI, MIHTOTIHQUI and MOHTOTIHQUI. Why not something >> without the M? again because of its reflexive nature? Why not >> IHTOTIANI? > > All of these sound fine, and you have answered your own question, I > would say. > > Best, > > Michael > > > > > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From schwallr at potsdam.edu Mon Nov 23 16:26:58 2009 From: schwallr at potsdam.edu (John F. Schwaller) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 11:26:58 -0500 Subject: Huitznahuic Message-ID: Recently I received a query from Catalunya regarding the name Huitznahuic, which was the name locals had given to the Pyramid of the Sun at Teotihuacan. >> > >> First Name: Anabel >> > >> Last Name: Villalonga Gordaliza >> > >> Email: annabel.villalonga at uab.cat >> > >> Culture: Teotihuacan >> > >> Abstract: I would like to know about the meaning of \"Huitznahuic\" >> > >> because I found that in s.XIX some people from San Juan Teotihuacan >> > >> called the Sun Pyramid with this name. I\'m doing my thesis and Dr. >> > >> Alfonso Lacadena from Madrid suggested me to contact with you. >> -- ***************************** John F. Schwaller President SUNY - Potsdam 44 Pierrepont Ave. Potsdam, NY 13676 Tel. 315-267-2100 FAX 315-267-2496 _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From martintzin at live.com Tue Nov 24 17:22:38 2009 From: martintzin at live.com (Martin Tzompantzin) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 11:22:38 -0600 Subject: poetry request Message-ID: Hi Could anyone help me with the nahuatl version of the following poem: "Amo el canto del cenzontle, p?jaro de cuatrocientas voces. Amo el color del jade y el enervante perfume de las flores; pero amo m?s a mi hermano, el hombre" I find it very inspiring and would like to read it in its original for but I haven?t been able to find it in the net. Thanks, I really appreciate your help. Martintzin _________________________________________________________________ Todo lo que te gusta de Internet en un mismo lugar www.messengernews.com.mx -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Tue Nov 24 22:59:39 2009 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:59:39 -0500 Subject: Huitznahuic In-Reply-To: <4B0AB7D2.4020409@potsdam.edu> Message-ID: Quoting "John F. Schwaller" : > Recently I received a query from Catalunya regarding the name > Huitznahuic, which was the name locals had given to the Pyramid of the > Sun at Teotihuacan. It *looks like* 'thorn-four-place', from huitz-na:hui-c ...although *huitzna:uhco" sounds better to me. Anybody have an idea? Michael > >>> > >> First Name: Anabel >>> > >> Last Name: Villalonga Gordaliza >>> > >> Email: annabel.villalonga at uab.cat >>> > >> Culture: Teotihuacan >>> > >> Abstract: I would like to know about the meaning of \"Huitznahuic\" >>> > >> because I found that in s.XIX some people from San Juan Teotihuacan >>> > >> called the Sun Pyramid with this name. I\'m doing my thesis and Dr. >>> > >> Alfonso Lacadena from Madrid suggested me to contact with you. >>> > > -- > ***************************** > John F. Schwaller > President > SUNY - Potsdam > 44 Pierrepont Ave. > Potsdam, NY 13676 > Tel. 315-267-2100 > FAX 315-267-2496 > > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From schwallr at potsdam.edu Wed Nov 25 00:56:21 2009 From: schwallr at potsdam.edu (John F. Schwaller) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:56:21 -0500 Subject: Huitznahuic In-Reply-To: <20091124175939.04jnxwfjs44wc08s@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: My original feeling was that it was Huitznahuac [as in the centzon huitznahuac] which had gotten garbled in the last few decades, but Villalonga assured me that huitznahuic was the correct form. > Quoting "John F. Schwaller" : > >> Recently I received a query from Catalunya regarding the name >> Huitznahuic, which was the name locals had given to the Pyramid of the >> Sun at Teotihuacan. > > > It *looks like* 'thorn-four-place', from huitz-na:hui-c > > ...although *huitzna:uhco" sounds better to me. > > Anybody have an idea? > > Michael > > >> >>>> > >> First Name: Anabel >>>> > >> Last Name: Villalonga Gordaliza >>>> > >> Email: annabel.villalonga at uab.cat >>>> > >> Culture: Teotihuacan >>>> > >> Abstract: I would like to know about the meaning of >>>> \"Huitznahuic\" >>>> > >> because I found that in s.XIX some people from San Juan >>>> Teotihuacan >>>> > >> called the Sun Pyramid with this name. I\'m doing my thesis and >>>> Dr. >>>> > >> Alfonso Lacadena from Madrid suggested me to contact with you. >>>> >> >> -- >> ***************************** >> John F. Schwaller >> President >> SUNY - Potsdam >> 44 Pierrepont Ave. >> Potsdam, NY 13676 >> Tel. 315-267-2100 >> FAX 315-267-2496 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Nahuatl mailing list >> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org >> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl >> > > > > -- John F. Schwaller President, SUNY Potsdam 44 Pierrepont Ave. Potsdam, NY 13676 schwallr at potsdam.edu _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Wed Nov 25 01:04:27 2009 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 20:04:27 -0500 Subject: Huitznahuic In-Reply-To: <1caa227c274cdf9bfbbf2a94622a4053.squirrel@bearmail.potsdam.edu> Message-ID: Quoting "John F. Schwaller" : > My original feeling was that it was Huitznahuac [as in the centzon > huitznahuac] which had gotten garbled in the last few decades, but > Villalonga assured me that huitznahuic was the correct form. Yes. Huitznahuac occurred to me, too. And Huitznahuac is only *one* little vowel different from Huitznahuic. Suspicious. > > > > >> Quoting "John F. Schwaller" : >> >>> Recently I received a query from Catalunya regarding the name >>> Huitznahuic, which was the name locals had given to the Pyramid of the >>> Sun at Teotihuacan. >> >> >> It *looks like* 'thorn-four-place', from huitz-na:hui-c >> >> ...although *huitzna:uhco" sounds better to me. >> >> Anybody have an idea? >> >> Michael >> >> >>> >>>>> > >> First Name: Anabel >>>>> > >> Last Name: Villalonga Gordaliza >>>>> > >> Email: annabel.villalonga at uab.cat >>>>> > >> Culture: Teotihuacan >>>>> > >> Abstract: I would like to know about the meaning of >>>>> \"Huitznahuic\" >>>>> > >> because I found that in s.XIX some people from San Juan >>>>> Teotihuacan >>>>> > >> called the Sun Pyramid with this name. I\'m doing my thesis and >>>>> Dr. >>>>> > >> Alfonso Lacadena from Madrid suggested me to contact with you. >>>>> >>> >>> -- >>> ***************************** >>> John F. Schwaller >>> President >>> SUNY - Potsdam >>> 44 Pierrepont Ave. >>> Potsdam, NY 13676 >>> Tel. 315-267-2100 >>> FAX 315-267-2496 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Nahuatl mailing list >>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org >>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl >>> >> >> >> >> > > > -- > John F. Schwaller > President, > SUNY Potsdam > 44 Pierrepont Ave. > Potsdam, NY 13676 > schwallr at potsdam.edu > > > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From budelberger.richard at wanadoo.fr Wed Nov 25 01:25:00 2009 From: budelberger.richard at wanadoo.fr (Budelberger, Richard) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 02:25:00 +0100 Subject: Huitznahuic Message-ID: 5 frimaire an CCXVIII (le 25 novembre 2009 d. c.-d. c. g.), 02 h 16 : 19,1 ?C... ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael McCafferty To: John F. Schwaller Cc: Nahuat-L Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 11:59 PM Subject: Re: [Nahuat-l] Huitznahuic > Quoting John F. Schwaller: > > > Recently I received a query from Catalunya regarding the name > > Huitznahuic, which was the name locals had given to the Pyramid of the > > Sun at Teotihuacan. > > It *looks like* 'thorn-four-place', from huitz-na:hui-c huitz-tli + na:hui > huitzna:hui + -c > huitzna:huic ? > ...although *huitzna:uhco" sounds better to me. > > Anybody have an idea? Non. Si, peut-?tre : la se?ora Villalonga Gordaliza ne conna?trait-elle pas le nom donn? -- par sym?trie ? -- par les ? locals ? ? la pyramide de la Lune, permettant de comprendre la construction -- huitzna:hui-c ? -- et le sens ? donner le cas ?ch?ant ? huitztli ?.. > Michael > > > >>> > >> First Name: Anabel > >>> > >> Last Name: Villalonga Gordaliza > >>> > >> Culture: Teotihuacan > >>> > >> Abstract: I would like to know about the meaning of \"Huitznahuic\" > >>> > >> because I found that in s.XIX some people from San Juan Teotihuacan > >>> > >> called the Sun Pyramid with this name. I\'m doing my thesis and Dr. > >>> > >> Alfonso Lacadena from Madrid suggested me to contact with you. _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From budelberger.richard at wanadoo.fr Wed Nov 25 02:31:00 2009 From: budelberger.richard at wanadoo.fr (Budelberger, Richard) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 03:31:00 +0100 Subject: poetry request Message-ID: 5 frimaire an CCXVIII (le 25 novembre 2009 d. c.-d. c. g.), 03 h 27 : 19,1 ?C... ----- Original Message ----- From: Martin Tzompantzin To: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org Cc: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 6:22 PM Subject: [Nahuat-l] poetry request > Hi > > Could anyone help me with the nahuatl version of the following poem: > "Amo el canto del cenzontle, > p?jaro de cuatrocientas voces. > Amo el color del jade > y el enervante perfume de las flores; > pero amo m?s a mi hermano, el hombre" > > I find it very inspiring and would like to read it in its original for > but I haven?t been able to find it in the net. Thanks, I really appreciate your help. > Martintzin MI HERMANO EL HOMBRE Nehhuatl nictlazohtla in centzontototl icuicauh nehhuatl nictlazohtla chalchihuitl itlapaliz ihuan in ahuiyacmeh xochimeh zan oc cencah, noicniuhtzin in tlacatl, nehhuatl nictlazohtla Amo el canto del cenzontle, P?jaro de cuatrocientas voces Amo el color del jade y el enervante Olor de flores pero amo m?s a m? Hermano al hombre Nezahualc?yolt ex . Budelberger, Richard. _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From lahunik.62 at skynet.be Tue Nov 24 23:04:05 2009 From: lahunik.62 at skynet.be (lahunik.62 at skynet.be) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 00:04:05 +0100 Subject: Huitznahuac Message-ID: Huitznahuac Is a cultus place orientated in the South. One could find it in Tezcoco, Otumba, Azcapotzalco, etc. In Tenochtitlan the place is well been orientated in the South, in the quarters which the Conquistadores called San Pablo, and is still known under this name. In general it means: the South. It was also a place near the thorns, always situated in front of the altars, where the ritual sacrifices has taken place. As the altars were always orientated to the South, the word was used in a general way to locate the South part of the earth or the sky. Lahun Ik 62 Baert Georges Flanders Fields -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From budelberger.richard at wanadoo.fr Wed Nov 25 03:46:00 2009 From: budelberger.richard at wanadoo.fr (Budelberger, Richard) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 04:46:00 +0100 Subject: poetry request Message-ID: 5 frimaire an CCXVIII (le 25 novembre 2009 d. c.-d. c. g.), 04 h 34 : 19,1 ?C... ----- Original Message ----- From: Elaine Anderson To: Budelberger, Richard Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 3:54 AM Subject: Re: [Nahuat-l] poetry request > What primary source document is this from? Je ne sais pas. ? en los billetes mexicanos de 100 pesos ? ?. (?) N?hua:tl nictlaz?tla in centzonto:to:tl i:cui:cauh n?hua:tl nictlaz?tla cha:lchihuitl i:tlapaliz i:hua:n in a:huiyacm? xo:chim? zan oc cenc?, noicni:uhtzin in tla:catl n?hua:tl nictlaz?tla. Budelberger, Richard (pro-Unicode). 1. Dra. Susana Arroyo-Furphy, . _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From a.appleyard at btinternet.com Wed Nov 25 07:05:01 2009 From: a.appleyard at btinternet.com (ANTHONY APPLEYARD) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 07:05:01 +0000 Subject: poetry request In-Reply-To: <00d901ca6d81$d3d76d40$3b7d3051@q8u7w0> Message-ID: What is the meter pattern of classical Nahuatl poetry? Is it syllable-length-based like classical Latin poetry, or what? Citlalyani. --- On Wed, 25/11/09, Budelberger, Richard wrote: From: Budelberger, Richard 5 frimaire an CCXVIII (le 25 novembre 2009 d. c.-d. c. g.), 04 h 34 : 19,1 ?C... ? ? Je ne sais pas. ? en los billetes mexicanos de 100 pesos ? ?. (?) ? ? ? ? N?hua:tl nictlaz?tla ? ? ? ? in centzonto:to:tl i:cui:cauh ? ? ? ? n?hua:tl nictlaz?tla ? ? ? ? cha:lchihuitl i:tlapaliz ? ? ? ? i:hua:n in a:huiyacm? xo:chim? ? ? ? ? zan oc cenc?, ? ? ? ? noicni:uhtzin in tla:catl ? ? ? ? n?hua:tl nictlaz?tla. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From karttu at nantucket.net Wed Nov 25 07:47:48 2009 From: karttu at nantucket.net (Frances Karttunen) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 02:47:48 -0500 Subject: Nahuatl poetry Message-ID: What is the meter pattern of classical Nahuatl poetry? Is it syllable- length-based like classical Latin poetry, or what? Citlalyani. One looks in vain for either stress-based or syllable-timed meter in the large body of Nahuatl poetry/songs. If we knew how they fit together with the music, it would be a great help, but in the manuscripts we have the words but not the music. Many of them are preceded by drumbeat patterns transcribed with the syllables ti, to, qui, and co. For example, several songs are accompanied by the drumbeat coto coto coti ticoti ticoti. For others the beat is toco tico tocoti tocoti tocoti tocoti.. A longer one is tiqui tiqui tocoto tiqui tiqui tocoto tiqui tiquiti tiqui tiqui tiquiti. Sometimes one drumbeat pattern is given and then a second one for ?when it turns? or ?until it ends.? In Nahuatl high style, whether prose or verse, elements are paired. Such a pair of words or phrases is often described in English as a couplet, and in Nahuatl formal rhetoric, couplets are frequently embedded within couplets. Whatever is worth saying is worth saying twice. And whatever is worth saying twice is worth saying four or eight times. This is reflected in the structure of the songs. The majority of them consist of four stanzas, each stanza consisting of a pair of verses. We know that the verse pairs go together, because each of the two elements ends with an identical coda. The coda is made up of syllables that can be compared to tralala in English songs. The syllables have no meaning of their own but serve to tell the hearer that one verse is over and another is about to begin. A typical coda in Nahuatl songs is ohuaya ohuaya, but there are longer ones such as ayie a oo ohuaya and ohui ohui ilili y yao ayyahue o amaha ilili ahua y yaohuia. An eight-verse Nahuatl song begins with a stanza consisting of a pair of verses, each ending in the same coda. Then comes another stanza, often with a different shared coda. Then comes another stanza, followed by the fourth. Rather than progressing from a beginning to a middle to an end, the organization is circular. In some repetitions, we find different order of the stanzas, but within the stanzas, the verse pairs are inseparable. In a few cases where one of the verses has been forgotten, a dummy verse has been substituted ending with the same coda as its partner within the stanza. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From budelberger.richard at wanadoo.fr Wed Nov 25 13:06:00 2009 From: budelberger.richard at wanadoo.fr (Budelberger, Richard) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 14:06:00 +0100 Subject: poetry request Message-ID: 5 frimaire an CCXVIII (le 25 novembre 2009 d. c.-d. c. g.), 13 h 54 : 18,6 ?C... ----- Original Message ----- From: Elaine Anderson To: Budelberger, Richard Mais pourquoi Mme Anderson m'?crit-elle en priv? ? Ses commentaires int?ressent toute la liste NAHUAT-L ! Utiliser le bouton ? R?pondre ? tous ?... Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 1:31 PM Subject: Re: [Nahuat-l] poetry request > Je ne sais pas tampoco - por su puesto, no salio en > las monedas de cinco pesos - > "attribution" to Nezahualcoyotl at the website may indicate > that it was lifted from Garibay's rather free interpretations > of some of the Cantares - but I do not have Garibay's works to refer to. > A quick check through Bierhorst's concordance to the Cantares > for centzontli/centzontototl, etc. yielded a reference to folio 1:16 > in centzontlatoltozoh quinnananquilia - not even close. > Sounds suspiciously westernized - if not a very literal translation > of one of Garibay's interpretations back into Nahuatl! - a missionary > Nahuatl source tal vez? N?hua:tl nictlaz?tla in centzonto:to:tl i:cui:cauh n?hua:tl nictlaz?tla cha:lchihuitl i:tlapaliz i:hua:n in a:huiyacm? xo:chim? zan oc cenc?, noicni:uhtzin in tla:catl n?hua:tl nictlaz?tla. J'ai des doutes sur l'authenticit? de ce po?me tr?s r?pandu sur le Web. Consultons le Wimmer, toujours excellent : ? i:tlapaliz : tlapaliztli, ? Teinture, action de teindre un objet. ? ? a:huiyacm? xo:chim? : adjectif au pluriel ; ? xo:chim? ? : .XOCHITL: x?chitl, en Sah11,213 on trouve le plur. x?chimeh. Garibay Llave 377 signale un pluriel dialectal 'x?chimeh' *~ pluriel, R.Joe Campbell and Frances Karttunen I 37 proposent 'x?chimeh'. Si ? xo:chim? ? ?tait un pluriel usuel figurant chez le classique Nezahualcoyolt, trouverait-on les commentaires ci-dessus ? Budelberger, Richard. _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From idiez at me.com Wed Nov 25 04:54:35 2009 From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan, Ph.D.) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 22:54:35 -0600 Subject: tlapani, tlapana, tlatlapaca, tlatlapatza Message-ID: Piyali listeros, Ce tlahtlaniliztli. I have a question about sets of words like: tlapa:ni, "to split"; tlapa:na, "to split s.t."; tlatlapaca, "to split into many pieces", tlatlapatza, "to split s.t. into many pieces". I understand that tlapa:na is a causative derivation of tlapa:ni. And the grammars say that tlatlapaca is a reduplicated form of tlapa:ni, and that tlatlapatza is a reduplicated form of tlapa:na. What I want to know is if tlatlapatza could also be considered a causative derivation of tlatlapaca. After all, we do have hua:qui, "to dry" and its causative derivation hua:tza, "to dry s.t."; popo:ca, "to smoke" / popo:tza, "to smoke s.t."; ti:tica, "to throb (a wound) / ti:titza, "to strain while making an effort", none of which have underlying thematic verbs forms in -ni or -hui. And I think all verbs ending in - tza are transitive (pi:tza, po:tza). John John Sullivan, Ph.D. Professor of Nahua language and culture Universidad Aut?noma de Zacatecas Zacatecas Institute of Teaching and Research in Ethnology Tacuba 152, int. 43 Centro Hist?rico Zacatecas, Zac. 98000 Mexico Work: +52 (492) 925-3415 Fax: +1 (858) 724-3030 (U.S.A.) Home: +52 (492) 768-6048 Mobile: +52 1 (492) 103-0195 idiez at me.com www.macehualli.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From lovegren at buffalo.edu Wed Nov 25 04:59:31 2009 From: lovegren at buffalo.edu (Jesse Lovegren) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 23:59:31 -0500 Subject: poetry request In-Reply-To: <00d901ca6d81$d3d76d40$3b7d3051@q8u7w0> Message-ID: "Most of the surviving Nahuatl songs can be found in two major codices, Romances de los se?ores de la Nueva Espa?a and Cantares mexicanos. ... Two more of Hungry Coyote's songs are found in Spanish translation in Historia chichimeca, a history written in Spanish by Alva Ixtlilxochitl, another descendant of Hungry Coyote and surely an associate of Pomar. ..." http://www.famsi.org/research/curl/bibliography1.html On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 10:46 PM, Budelberger, Richard < budelberger.richard at wanadoo.fr> wrote: > 5 frimaire an CCXVIII (le 25 novembre 2009 d. c.-d. c. g.), 04 h 34 : 19,1 > ?C... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Elaine Anderson > To: Budelberger, Richard > Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 3:54 AM > Subject: Re: [Nahuat-l] poetry request > > > What primary source document is this from? > > Je ne sais pas. ? en los billetes mexicanos de 100 pesos ? ?. (?) > > N?hua:tl nictlaz?tla > in centzonto:to:tl i:cui:cauh > n?hua:tl nictlaz?tla > cha:lchihuitl i:tlapaliz > i:hua:n in a:huiyacm? xo:chim? > zan oc cenc?, > noicni:uhtzin in tla:catl > n?hua:tl nictlaz?tla. > > > Budelberger, Richard (pro-Unicode). > > > 1. Dra. Susana Arroyo-Furphy, < > http://www.razonypalabra.org.mx/cyl/2007/mar15.html>. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > > -- Jesse Lovegren Department of Linguistics 645 Baldy Hall office +1 716 645 0136 cell +1 512 584 5468 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From lovegren at buffalo.edu Wed Nov 25 15:39:08 2009 From: lovegren at buffalo.edu (Jesse Lovegren) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 10:39:08 -0500 Subject: poetry request In-Reply-To: <007401ca6dd0$120dcd40$17507952@q8u7w0> Message-ID: En outre c'est un peu curieux la presence du pronom externe "nehuatl", qui ne se trouve que deux fois dans tout le Cantares et une fois ? Ballads of the Lords of New Spain chez Bierhorst. * * *si google books ne me trompe pas * On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 8:06 AM, Budelberger, Richard < budelberger.richard at wanadoo.fr> wrote: > 5 frimaire an CCXVIII (le 25 novembre 2009 d. c.-d. c. g.), 13 h 54 : 18,6 > ?C... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Elaine Anderson > To: Budelberger, Richard > > Mais pourquoi Mme Anderson m'?crit-elle en priv? ? > Ses commentaires int?ressent toute la liste NAHUAT-L ! > Utiliser le bouton ? R?pondre ? tous ?... > > Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 1:31 PM > Subject: Re: [Nahuat-l] poetry request > > > Je ne sais pas tampoco - por su puesto, no salio en > > las monedas de cinco pesos - > > "attribution" to Nezahualcoyotl at the website may indicate > > that it was lifted from Garibay's rather free interpretations > > of some of the Cantares - but I do not have Garibay's works to refer to. > > A quick check through Bierhorst's concordance to the Cantares > > for centzontli/centzontototl, etc. yielded a reference to folio 1:16 > > in centzontlatoltozoh quinnananquilia - not even close. > > Sounds suspiciously westernized - if not a very literal translation > > of one of Garibay's interpretations back into Nahuatl! - a missionary > > Nahuatl source tal vez? > > N?hua:tl nictlaz?tla > in centzonto:to:tl i:cui:cauh > n?hua:tl nictlaz?tla > cha:lchihuitl i:tlapaliz > i:hua:n in a:huiyacm? xo:chim? > zan oc cenc?, > noicni:uhtzin in tla:catl > n?hua:tl nictlaz?tla. > > J'ai des doutes sur l'authenticit? de ce po?me tr?s r?pandu sur le Web. > Consultons le Wimmer, toujours excellent : > > ? i:tlapaliz : tlapaliztli, ? Teinture, action de teindre un objet. ? > ? a:huiyacm? xo:chim? : adjectif au pluriel ; ? xo:chim? ? : > > .XOCHITL: > x?chitl, en Sah11,213 on trouve le plur. x?chimeh. > Garibay Llave 377 signale un pluriel dialectal 'x?chimeh' > *~ pluriel, R.Joe Campbell and Frances Karttunen I 37 proposent > 'x?chimeh'. > > Si ? xo:chim? ? ?tait un pluriel usuel figurant chez le classique > Nezahualcoyolt, > trouverait-on les commentaires ci-dessus ? > > > Budelberger, Richard. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > > -- Jesse Lovegren Department of Linguistics 645 Baldy Hall office +1 716 645 0136 cell +1 512 584 5468 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From yekeus at yahoo.com.mx Wed Nov 25 16:37:09 2009 From: yekeus at yahoo.com.mx (=?utf-8?Q?Javier_Jim=C3=A9nez_Iglesias?=) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 10:37:09 -0600 Subject: poetry request In-Reply-To: Message-ID: ZENZONTLI NIH OIHKAH NETXPAKTIA ZEH TXONTLI OIHKAMEH TOTOTL TXALTXIOHTIK IXNEHKIH KEHN NI AHOIHAK IN XOTXIMEH OHAN NOKNIOH NIK TLAZOHTLA ME ENCANTA EL CANTO DEL ZENZONTLE CUATROCIENTOS CANTOS DE AVE ME GUSTA EL RESPLANDOR DEL JADE COMO EL AROMA DE LAS FLORES MAS A MI HERMANO LO APRECIO(AMO) De: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org [mailto:nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org] En nombre de Martin Tzompantzin Enviado el: martes, 24 de noviembre de 2009 11:23 a.m. Para: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org CC: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org Asunto: [Nahuat-l] poetry request Hi Could anyone help me with the nahuatl version of the following poem: "Amo el canto del cenzontle, p?jaro de cuatrocientas voces. Amo el color del jade y el enervante perfume de las flores; pero amo m?s a mi hermano, el hombre" I find it very inspiring and would like to read it in its original for but I haven?t been able to find it in the net. Thanks, I really appreciate your help. Martintzin _____ Desc?brelo: NUEVO Windows 7. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From rnava_nava at hotmail.com Wed Nov 25 17:58:56 2009 From: rnava_nava at hotmail.com (Refugio Nava Nava) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 17:58:56 +0000 Subject: Thanks for the help In-Reply-To: <008001ca6d77$5b7042a0$3b7d3051@q8u7w0> Message-ID: Hi, everybody I?d like to thank all of you who have read my request and spend some time answering it. The first time I saw this poem, which is indeed atributed to Netzahualcoyotl, was in a book we, in Mexico, use in elementary school. It is a book for the subject of Spanish. Unfortunatelly, the poem is only in Spanish and have never seen the nahuatl version. Thanks a lot > From: budelberger.richard at wanadoo.fr > To: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 03:31:00 +0100 > Subject: Re: [Nahuat-l] poetry request > > 5 frimaire an CCXVIII (le 25 novembre 2009 d. c.-d. c. g.), 03 h 27 : 19,1 ?C... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Martin Tzompantzin > To: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org > Cc: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 6:22 PM > Subject: [Nahuat-l] poetry request > > > Hi > > > > Could anyone help me with the nahuatl version of the following poem: > > "Amo el canto del cenzontle, > > p?jaro de cuatrocientas voces. > > Amo el color del jade > > y el enervante perfume de las flores; > > pero amo m?s a mi hermano, el hombre" > > > > I find it very inspiring and would like to read it in its original for > > but I haven?t been able to find it in the net. Thanks, I really appreciate your help. > > Martintzin > > MI HERMANO EL HOMBRE > > Nehhuatl nictlazohtla > in centzontototl > icuicauh nehhuatl nictlazohtla > chalchihuitl itlapaliz > ihuan in ahuiyacmeh xochimeh > zan oc cencah, > noicniuhtzin in tlacatl, > nehhuatl nictlazohtla > > Amo el canto del cenzontle, > P?jaro de cuatrocientas voces > Amo el color del jade y el enervante > Olor de flores pero amo m?s a m? > Hermano al hombre > > Nezahualc?yolt > > ex . > > > Budelberger, Richard. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live Hotmail: Your friends can get your Facebook updates, right from Hotmail?. http://www.microsoft.com/middleeast/windows/windowslive/see-it-in-action/social-network-basics.aspx?ocid=PID23461::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-xm:SI_SB_4:092009 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Wed Nov 25 19:00:23 2009 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 14:00:23 -0500 Subject: Thanks for the help In-Reply-To: Message-ID: In addition to the other good questions, especially grammatical, raised already this morning about this song apparently attributed to the Nezahualcoyotl, let me add that the Spanish phrase "P?jaro de cuatrocientas voces" is not in the "original" Nahuatl version. It seems to be a definition for "centzontle," perhaps a parenthetical addition. Michael Quoting Refugio Nava Nava : > > Hi, everybody > > > > I?d like to thank all of you who have read my request and spend some > time answering it. > > The first time I saw this poem, which is indeed atributed to > Netzahualcoyotl, was in a book we, in Mexico, use in elementary > school. It is a book for the subject of Spanish. Unfortunatelly, the > poem is only in Spanish and have never seen the nahuatl version. > > > > Thanks a lot > > > > > > > >> From: budelberger.richard at wanadoo.fr >> To: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org >> Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 03:31:00 +0100 >> Subject: Re: [Nahuat-l] poetry request >> >> 5 frimaire an CCXVIII (le 25 novembre 2009 d. c.-d. c. g.), 03 h 27 >> : 19,1 ?C... >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Martin Tzompantzin >> To: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org >> Cc: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org >> Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 6:22 PM >> Subject: [Nahuat-l] poetry request >> >> > Hi >> > >> > Could anyone help me with the nahuatl version of the following poem: >> > "Amo el canto del cenzontle, >> > p?jaro de cuatrocientas voces. >> > Amo el color del jade >> > y el enervante perfume de las flores; >> > pero amo m?s a mi hermano, el hombre" >> > >> > I find it very inspiring and would like to read it in its original for >> > but I haven?t been able to find it in the net. Thanks, I really >> appreciate your help. >> > Martintzin >> >> MI HERMANO EL HOMBRE >> >> Nehhuatl nictlazohtla >> in centzontototl >> icuicauh nehhuatl nictlazohtla >> chalchihuitl itlapaliz >> ihuan in ahuiyacmeh xochimeh >> zan oc cencah, >> noicniuhtzin in tlacatl, >> nehhuatl nictlazohtla >> >> Amo el canto del cenzontle, >> P?jaro de cuatrocientas voces >> Amo el color del jade y el enervante >> Olor de flores pero amo m?s a m? >> Hermano al hombre >> >> Nezahualc?yolt >> >> ex . >> >> >> Budelberger, Richard. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Nahuatl mailing list >> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org >> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > > _________________________________________________________________ > Windows Live Hotmail: Your friends can get your Facebook updates, > right from Hotmail?. > http://www.microsoft.com/middleeast/windows/windowslive/see-it-in-action/social-network-basics.aspx?ocid=PID23461::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-xm:SI_SB_4:092009 _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Wed Nov 25 19:08:19 2009 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 14:08:19 -0500 Subject: tlapani, tlapana, tlatlapaca, tlatlapatza In-Reply-To: <2670A87B-738F-4B1C-8351-D26D7403AA37@me.com> Message-ID: Quoting "John Sullivan, Ph.D." : > Piyali listeros, > Ce tlahtlaniliztli. I have a question about sets of words like: > tlapa:ni, "to split"; tlapa:na, "to split s.t."; tlatlapaca, "to > split into many pieces", tlatlapatza, "to split s.t. into many > pieces". I understand that tlapa:na is a causative derivation of > tlapa:ni. And the grammars say that tlatlapaca is a reduplicated > form of tlapa:ni, and that tlatlapatza is a reduplicated form of > tlapa:na. What I want to know is if tlatlapatza could also be > considered a causative derivation of tlatlapaca. Why? :-) After all, we do > have hua:qui, "to dry" and its causative derivation hua:tza, "to dry > s.t."; popo:ca, "to smoke" / popo:tza, "to smoke s.t."; ti:tica, "to > throb (a wound) / ti:titza, "to strain while making an effort", none > of which have underlying thematic verbs forms in -ni or -hui. One thing about these particular forms that you note, John, is that they all retain the long vowel when taking the -tza form, which is not the case for the productive verbs noted further above. Michael And I > think all verbs ending in - tza are transitive (pi:tza, po:tza). > John > > John Sullivan, Ph.D. > Professor of Nahua language and culture > Universidad Aut?noma de Zacatecas > Zacatecas Institute of Teaching and Research in Ethnology > Tacuba 152, int. 43 > Centro Hist?rico > Zacatecas, Zac. 98000 > Mexico > Work: +52 (492) 925-3415 > Fax: +1 (858) 724-3030 (U.S.A.) > Home: +52 (492) 768-6048 > Mobile: +52 1 (492) 103-0195 > idiez at me.com > www.macehualli.org > > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Wed Nov 25 19:57:25 2009 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 14:57:25 -0500 Subject: poetry request In-Reply-To: <4fb311a10911250739v7057fdfcw3f62ce657b130156@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Elaine Anderson >> To: Budelberger, Richar >> >> Richard Budelberger wrote concerning his question about the >> authenticity of this poem. N?hua:tl nictlaz?tla > in centzonto:to:tl i:cui:cauh > n?hua:tl nictlaz?tla > cha:lchihuitl i:tlapaliz > i:hua:n in a:huiyacm? xo:chim? > zan oc cenc?, > noicni:uhtzin in tla:catl > n?hua:tl nictlaz?tla. >> >> J'ai des doutes sur l'authenticit? de ce po?me tr?s r?pandu sur le Web. >> Consultons le Wimmer, toujours excellent : >> >> ? i:tlapaliz : tlapaliztli, ? Teinture, action de teindre un objet. ? I agree that this term seems unexpected for classical Nahuatl in this context. In the Florentine, the inalienably possessed noun tlapal- not used when referring to the color of stones. There the term used is "itlachializ" meaning 'its appearance' chalchihuitl itlachializ would seem to be closer to what Nezahualcoyotl said, if he said any of this at all. >> ? a:huiyacm? xo:chim? : adjectif au pluriel ; ? xo:chim? ? : Yes, this phrase too seems quite strange, grammatically speaking. One would expect something like "ahhuiacayotl ixoch" or "ahhuializtli ixoch" 'the flowers' pleasant odor'. Michael >> >> .XOCHITL: >> x?chitl, en Sah11,213 on trouve le plur. x?chimeh. >> Garibay Llave 377 signale un pluriel dialectal 'x?chimeh' >> *~ pluriel, R.Joe Campbell and Frances Karttunen I 37 proposent >> 'x?chimeh'. >> >> Si ? xo:chim? ? ?tait un pluriel usuel figurant chez le classique >> Nezahualcoyolt, >> trouverait-on les commentaires ci-dessus ? >> >> >> Budelberger, Richard. >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Nahuatl mailing list >> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org >> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl >> >> > > > -- > Jesse Lovegren > Department of Linguistics > 645 Baldy Hall > office +1 716 645 0136 > cell +1 512 584 5468 > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From budelberger.richard at wanadoo.fr Wed Nov 25 21:22:00 2009 From: budelberger.richard at wanadoo.fr (Budelberger, Richard) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 22:22:00 +0100 Subject: poetry request Message-ID: 5 frimaire an CCXVIII (le 25 novembre 2009 d. c.-d. c. g.), 22 h 09 : 20,7 ?C... ----- Original Message ----- From: Jesse Lovegren To: Budelberger, Richard Cc: Nahuat-L Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 4:39 PM Subject: Re: [Nahuat-l] poetry request > En outre c'est un peu curieux la presence du pronom > externe "nehuatl", qui ne se trouve que deux fois dans > tout le Cantares et une fois ? Ballads of the Lords of > New Spain chez Bierhorst. > si google books ne me trompe pas Oui, bien s?r, tout ce texte est occidental, et ? sent ? le th?me mot ? mot (d'une langue ? pronoms personnels obligatoires) ; la preuve ? ? la premi?re lecture, j'en comprends et la structure, et le sens ; or, chacun sait que le vrai nahuatl est incompr?hensible, sauf ? quelques happy fews, dont je ne suis pas. N?hua:tl nictlaz?tla in centzonto:to:tl i:cui:cauh n?hua:tl nictlaz?tla cha:lchihuitl i:tlapaliz i:hua:n in a:huiyacm? xo:chim? zan oc cenc?, noicni:uhtzin in tla:catl n?hua:tl nictlaz?tla. On peut ajouter ? noicni:uhtzin ?, correct, mais dans lequel le ? i ? saute souvent : ? no(i)cni:uhtzin ?... (Voir la traduction -- personnelle ? -- de Javier Jim?nez Iglesias : ? NOKNIOH ?.) Budelberger, Richard. _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Wed Nov 25 22:24:40 2009 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 17:24:40 -0500 Subject: poetry request In-Reply-To: <006a01ca6e15$5c2b7180$a4d27952@q8u7w0> Message-ID: Quoting "Budelberger, Richard" : > 5 frimaire an CCXVIII (le 25 novembre 2009 d. c.-d. c. g.), 22 h 09 : > 20,7 ?C... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jesse Lovegren > To: Budelberger, Richard > Cc: Nahuat-L > Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 4:39 PM > Subject: Re: [Nahuat-l] poetry request > >> En outre c'est un peu curieux la presence du pronom >> externe "nehuatl", qui ne se trouve que deux fois dans >> tout le Cantares et une fois ? Ballads of the Lords of >> New Spain chez Bierhorst. >> si google books ne me trompe pas > > Oui, bien s?r, tout ce texte est occidental, et ? sent ? > le th?me mot ? mot (d'une langue ? pronoms personnels > obligatoires) ; la preuve ? ? la premi?re lecture, j'en comprends > et la structure, et le sens ; or, chacun sait que le vrai nahuatl > est incompr?hensible, sauf ? quelques happy fews, dont > je ne suis pas. > > N?hua:tl nictlaz?tla > in centzonto:to:tl i:cui:cauh > n?hua:tl nictlaz?tla > cha:lchihuitl i:tlapaliz > i:hua:n in a:huiyacm? xo:chim? > zan oc cenc?, > noicni:uhtzin in tla:catl > n?hua:tl nictlaz?tla. > > On peut ajouter ? noicni:uhtzin ?, correct, mais dans > lequel le ? i ? saute souvent : ? no(i)cni:uhtzin ?... (Voir > la traduction -- personnelle ? -- de Javier Jim?nez Iglesias : > ? NOKNIOH ?.) > > > Budelberger, Richard. > > > Well, this is not bad beginning Nahuatl. But, yes, not only is nocniuhtzin miswritten (and mistranslated), but also the use of "nehhuatl," a weird choice for a soul of the depth that Nezahualcoyotl was ostensibly gifted with. Michael _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Thu Nov 26 14:31:50 2009 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2009 09:31:50 -0500 Subject: poetry request In-Reply-To: <20091125145725.57dsb0fdsk0048k4@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: Quoting Michael McCafferty : > >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Elaine Anderson >>> To: Budelberger, Richar >>> >>> Richard Budelberger wrote concerning his question about the >>> authenticity of this poem. > > N?hua:tl nictlaz?tla >> in centzonto:to:tl i:cui:cauh >> n?hua:tl nictlaz?tla >> cha:lchihuitl i:tlapaliz >> i:hua:n in a:huiyacm? xo:chim? >> zan oc cenc?, >> noicni:uhtzin in tla:catl >> n?hua:tl nictlaz?tla. > > > > >>> >>> J'ai des doutes sur l'authenticit? de ce po?me tr?s r?pandu sur le Web. >>> Consultons le Wimmer, toujours excellent : >>> >>> ? i:tlapaliz : tlapaliztli, ? Teinture, action de teindre un objet. ? > > I agree that this term seems unexpected for classical Nahuatl in this > context. In the Florentine, the inalienably possessed noun tlapal- > not used when referring to the color of stones. There the term used > is "itlachializ" meaning 'its appearance' > > chalchihuitl itlachializ > > would seem to be closer to what Nezahualcoyotl said, if he said any > of this at all. > > >>> ? a:huiyacm? xo:chim? : adjectif au pluriel ; ? xo:chim? ? : > > Yes, this phrase too seems quite strange, grammatically speaking. One > would expect something like "ahhuiacayotl ixoch" or "ahhuializtli > ixoch" 'the flowers' pleasant odor'. > Must learn to proofread messages before sending them. That should have been iahhuializ in xochitl. Sorry, folks. Michael > Michael > > > > >>> >>> .XOCHITL: >>> x?chitl, en Sah11,213 on trouve le plur. x?chimeh. >>> Garibay Llave 377 signale un pluriel dialectal 'x?chimeh' >>> *~ pluriel, R.Joe Campbell and Frances Karttunen I 37 proposent >>> 'x?chimeh'. >>> >>> Si ? xo:chim? ? ?tait un pluriel usuel figurant chez le classique >>> Nezahualcoyolt, >>> trouverait-on les commentaires ci-dessus ? >>> >>> >>> Budelberger, Richard. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Nahuatl mailing list >>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org >>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Jesse Lovegren >> Department of Linguistics >> 645 Baldy Hall >> office +1 716 645 0136 >> cell +1 512 584 5468 >> > > > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From idiez at me.com Wed Nov 25 21:34:38 2009 From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan, Ph.D.) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 15:34:38 -0600 Subject: tlapani, tlapana, tlatlapaca, tlatlapatza In-Reply-To: <20091125140819.10isfy96as0cgow8@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: Because the meaning of tlatlapatza can be understood in two ways: 1. tlapana>tlatlapatza, "to split s.t. many times. 2. tlatlapaca> tlatlapatza, " to cause s.t. to be split into many pieces" John On Nov 25, 2009, at 1:08 PM, Michael McCafferty wrote: > Quoting "John Sullivan, Ph.D." : > >> Piyali listeros, >> Ce tlahtlaniliztli. I have a question about sets of words like: >> tlapa:ni, "to split"; tlapa:na, "to split s.t."; tlatlapaca, "to >> split into many pieces", tlatlapatza, "to split s.t. into many >> pieces". I understand that tlapa:na is a causative derivation of >> tlapa:ni. And the grammars say that tlatlapaca is a reduplicated >> form of tlapa:ni, and that tlatlapatza is a reduplicated form of >> tlapa:na. > > What I want to know is if tlatlapatza could also be >> considered a causative derivation of tlatlapaca. > > Why? > > :-) > > > After all, we do >> have hua:qui, "to dry" and its causative derivation hua:tza, "to dry >> s.t."; popo:ca, "to smoke" / popo:tza, "to smoke s.t."; ti:tica, "to >> throb (a wound) / ti:titza, "to strain while making an effort", none >> of which have underlying thematic verbs forms in -ni or -hui. > > One thing about these particular forms that you note, John, is that > they all retain the long vowel when taking the -tza form, which is not > the case for the productive verbs noted further above. > > > Michael > > > > And I >> think all verbs ending in - tza are transitive (pi:tza, po:tza). >> John >> >> John Sullivan, Ph.D. >> Professor of Nahua language and culture >> Universidad Aut?noma de Zacatecas >> Zacatecas Institute of Teaching and Research in Ethnology >> Tacuba 152, int. 43 >> Centro Hist?rico >> Zacatecas, Zac. 98000 >> Mexico >> Work: +52 (492) 925-3415 >> Fax: +1 (858) 724-3030 (U.S.A.) >> Home: +52 (492) 768-6048 >> Mobile: +52 1 (492) 103-0195 >> idiez at me.com >> www.macehualli.org >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From campbel at indiana.edu Sat Nov 28 19:56:58 2009 From: campbel at indiana.edu (Campbell, R. Joe) Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2009 14:56:58 -0500 Subject: Nahuatl Morphology Problems Message-ID: Nocnihuan, I would appreciate suggestions about the morphological composition of the words below. Some of it comes from Molina and glossed in Spanish and some of it comes from the Florentine Codex and has my glosses in English, with heavy leaning on the Dibble and Anderson translation of the text. A comma with a following hyphenated element indicates a prefixed item: ex: cuecuezo , tla- = tlacuecuezo. An element following "=" is a prefix: ex: atenoa =nitla = nitlaatenoa. < ... > contains scraps of morphological hypotheses that I have had over the years that I have been working on the material. In some cases, they are incomplete, but in other cases, I am simply dissatified or dubious about them. Again, I would appreciate any removal of a burr from my saddle or a thorn from my paw. There are only 66 of them here, but I have 770 more of them marked and waiting. |8-) Joe comment: zo:1 = pierce, sew cuecuezo , tla-. she bastes. . b.10 f.3 p.52| cuecuezo =nitla=onitlacuecuezoc. hiluanar lo que se ha de coser. . 71m2-5| cuecuezoni , tla-. one who bastes. . b.10 f.3 p.52| atenoa =nitla. sentarse ala orilla del rio. . 71m1-19| atenoa =nitla=onitlaatenoh. assentarse ala orilla del rio o del mar. . 71m2-2| atia =n. alegrarse muy mucho. <+prob>. 55m-00| comment: another form given in the FC is "atlacuezonan", pointing to the possibility that the last element is "na:ntli". atlacuezona. a kind of plant; white water lily. <+need:plant +prob>. b.11 f.13 p.126| canyepa. adonde (para preguntar). aduerbio. <+prob>. 71m1-1| cecocamati =mo. soberuio y presumptuoso. . 71m2-10| cecocamati =nino. tenerse en mucho, o por mas eminente y singular que los otros, con soberuia e hinchazon. <+prob>. 71m1-20| comment: related to Chalco (challi?)? chalcaayatia , mo-. he puts on a netted cape. . b.3 f.4 p.56| chalcaayauh , in-. their netted cape. . b.3 f.4 p.56| chalcayatl. netted cape. <--a:ya:tl +prob>. b.3 f.4 p.56| chiccanahua =nite. echar por fuerza de casa a alguno. <+prob>. 55m- 6| chiccalolli =tla. echado assi (assi is echar por fuer?a de casa a alguno); echado fuera de casa por fuerza. <+prob>. 55m-6| chinequiztli. ni?o que^llora mucho. <+prob>. 71m1-16| chipapatlaca. they constantly fly. . b.11 f.10 p.95| cuacecepoca =ni. espeluzarse. . 55m-9| comment: related to challi? cuachachal. hombre de gran cabeza. . 71m2- 14| cuahuecoc. wild bean. . b.2 f.2 p.65| cuatezpi =nite. messar. . 71m1-15| cuatlacaczotl. desmelenado. <+prob>. 55m-5| cuatlacazotl. desmelenado. <+prob>. 71m1-7| cuauhtzatzapictli. rexa de madera. . 71m2-15| comment: is tzo:tzocolli basically dupl-tzocolli? cuauhtzotzocolli. forked tree. . b.11 f.11 p.108| cuechmicqui. espantadiza cosa. <+prob>. 71m1-11| cuillotic. hombre cence?o y delgado. <+prob>. 71m2-5| comment: how can malacatl and malacotl be related? ecamalacotl. remolino de viento. . 71m1-18| ezoquilitl. bean plant. . b.11 f.2 p.15| comment: the similarity of huihuixca and huixahui is obvious, but how can they be related in a regular way? huihuixca =ni=onihuihuixcac. temblar. . 71m2-27| comment: huitolli seems to be a morpheme, but how can the 'tla-' be explained? huitolli =tla. arco para tirar flecha o bodoque. . 71m1-2| comment: how is the -ca- explained? ichpochcaconetontli. mozuela de edad mas peque?a. . 71m1-15| iquehuilotla =nite. ligar con hechizos. <+prob>. 71m1-14| iuhco ?ncah. assi assi, del que se enoja contra el que haze la cosa mal hecha. . 71m2-3| ixteliuhcatl. mexilla dela cara. <+prob>. 55m-13| iyayoca. his defect. <+prob>. b.10 f.3 p.50| comment: it is *possible* that the 'i' of 'izo' is 'ix', but there is no variation with *'ixzo'. izo , m[o]-. he anoints himself with his blood. . b.2 f.8 p.135| izo =nin. sacrificarse al ydolo, sacando sangre de las orejas o de la lengua, y de los otros miembros. . 71m1-19| machoncotl. bracelete de pluma rica. . 71m2- 9| comment: is the folding of the tortilla related to a possible hand signal given to warn someone? matzoa =ic nitla [[tlamatzoa =icni]]. noticia dar a alguno de lo que le a^de acaecer, auisandole. . 71m1-16| matzoalli =tla. tortillas dobladas, plegadas o souajadas. . 71m2-21| mautztemi =ni=onimautzten. tener panarizo en la v?a. . 71m2-9| mexhualiztli =ne. higo dolencia del saluonor. . 71m1-13| minacachalli. trident. . b.11 f.3 p.30| nacayauhyo. magra carne. . 71m1-14| comment: is 'nel' the same 'nel' of nelihui? nenelquilitl =tla. ensalada. <--dupl-nel!-quilitl +prob>. 71m1-10| comment: even if the 'nex' is 'nextli', what is the 'te'? nextecuilin. gusano de muladar, o persona desatinada y loca. . 71m2-12| nocxicecepoa =onocxicecepoac. entomecerme el pie. <--icza-l2 dupl- ce:tl-po:hua2 +prob +del.w +z>x +a>i>. 71m2-12| ochuiqui =mo. el que enferma por brindar mucho. . 71m2-10| omiztla. magra cosa, como hombre flaco. <+prob>. 71m1-14| omiztlatic. enflaquecido assi (assi is enflaquecer a otro). <+prob>. 55m-7| picietl. yerua medicinal que embeoda,y es como vele?o. <--iyetl +prob>. 71m1-13| polocatl. tamo, paja menuda. . 71m2-14| quechtzatic. desceruigado hazia delante; desceruigado. . 55m-5| tacapitzauhya , to-. our waist. . b.10 f.7 p.120a| tecpoyotl. pregonero. k +prob>. 55m-16| tenatic. aguda cosa y muy afilada. . 71m1-1| tepexocoyolli. azedera, yerua agra. . 71m1-3| tlalacatl. escarauajo grande y bermejo. <+prob>. 71m2-21| tlaletzalli. aueja de miel parda. <+prob>. 71m2-21| tlaletzatl. aueja de miel. <+prob>. 71m1-3| tlaxilacalli. barrio. <+prob>. 71m1-3| tocuaihyaya =ni. oler a cabron. . 71m1- 16| xocoyolli. azedera, yerua agra. . 71m1-3| xonexca =ic ni. noticia dar a alguno delo que le a de acaecer auisandole, per metaphoram. <+metaphor +prob>. 55m-14| yacatotona. gorgojo que come el trigo. . 71m1-12| _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From campbel at indiana.edu Sun Nov 29 21:19:26 2009 From: campbel at indiana.edu (Campbell, R. Joe) Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2009 16:19:26 -0500 Subject: tlapani, tlapana, tlatlapaca, tlatlapatza In-Reply-To: <2670A87B-738F-4B1C-8351-D26D7403AA37@me.com> Message-ID: John, I thought your message focused on an interesting area of Nahuatl word formation. Then, after several days of *thinking* that I was giving it the thought that it deserved, I realized that I had missed your point (possibly because I have long assumed that your suggestion that words like "nitlatlatlapatza" are derived from their intransitive reduplicated counterparts was true). I re-consulted one of "the grammars" that you mentioned and found that Andrews (rev. ed.), p. 232, says that the "tz" is the result of changing the 'n', 'ni', or 'hu' of the simple causative verb to 'tz', keeping the causative 'a' intact. Examples: tla-tlapana ---> tla-tlatlapatza tla-chipinia ---> tla-chichipitza tla-chayahua ---> tla-chachayatza Obviously, the several times that I had previously read that paragraph must have involved some distraction because I had *never* seen any reason to question my assumption that the "ca" and "tza" involved in these reduplicated verb forms were unit formatives. Maybe someone in the Nahuat-l group could help us understand why Andrews' point of view has more merit than the belief that these verb triads are related as follows: intrans. unredupl. ---> intrans. redupl. ---> causative redupl. (with -ca) (with -tza) /morpheme status/ /morpheme status/ In the meantime, I'm including below a list of some co-occurrences of "tza" and verb stems. Iztayohmeh, Joe p.s. While I was glad that you mentioned the "tza" of "hua:tza", I thought that someone might object that it was only a fossil remnant. But if I told my 10-year-old grandson that your "hua:tza" was merely a fossilized occurrence of "tza", he would ask me if I didn't believe in dinosaurs. pps.... On the issue of "pi:tza" and "po:tza (and "quetza" and "no:tza", the only other two verb morphemes in Nahuatl that end in "-tza"), I think that their transitivity and the fact that they end in "-tza" are not formally related. ppps.......If, as I'm hoping, there are comments forthcoming, could nocnihuan please erase this lengthy data list and not include it with your reply? **************************** * tza cala:ni1 *** cacalatza =nitla=onitlacacalatz. hazer ruido reboluiendo xicalas, o nuezes, o cosas semejantes. o abriendo y cerrando caxas, caxones, o puertas y ventanas. [p11-p51-dupl-cala:ni1-tza] 71m2-2. concacalachiliaya. they rattled it for him. [p33-o:n-dupl-cala:ni1-tza- ben-ya3 +tz>ch] FC. concacalatza. he rattles it. [p33-o:n-dupl-cala:ni1-tza] FC. iztecacalatza =mo. cantar la lechuza. [p54-iztitl-dupl-cala:ni1-tza +i>e] 71m2-11. mo[i]zticacalatza. it rasps its claws. [p54-iztitl-dupl-cala:ni1-tza] FC. netechcacalatza =mo=omonetechcacalatz. lo mismo es que motechachalatza. [p54-poss-tech1-dupl-cala:ni1-tza +embed +post.as.noun.2] 71m2-10. netechcacalatzaliztli =tla. herida assi. [p51-poss-tech1-dupl-cala:ni1- tza-liz +embed +post.as.noun.2] 71m1-13. quicacalatza. he rattles it. [p33-dupl-cala:ni1-tza] FC. quicacalatztiuh. he goes rattling it. [p33-dupl-cala:ni1-tza-prt1-ti1- yauh2 aux14b] FC. tlacacalatztihuetzi. it suddenly shakes something like a rattle. [p51- dupl-cala:ni1-prt1-tza-prt1-ti1-huetzi aux03] FC. word.count: 19 * tza capa:ni *** cacapatza =nitla=onitlacacapatz. hazer ruido con los pantuflos, o chinelas quando andan. [p11-p51-dupl-capa:ni-tza] 71m2-2. cuecacapatza =nino=oninocuecacapatz. hazer sonido o ruydo la muger con las naguas o faldillas, quando anda. [p11-p54-cue:itl-dupl-capa:ni- tza] 71m2-5. macacapatza =nino=. dar palmadas. [p11-p54-ma:itl-dupl-capa:ni-tza] 71m2-9. motencacapatza. it makes a smacking sound with its mouth. [p54-te:ntli- dupl-capa:ni-tza +cord] FC. teiztlaccacapatz. . [p52-iztlactli-dupl-capa:ni-tza-prt1] FC. word.count: 6 * tza chacua:ni *** chachacuatza =nitla=onitlachachacuatz. chapatear enel lodo. [p11-p51- dupl-chacua:ni-tza] 71m2-3. tlachachacuatztinemi. they go churning [e.g., in water]. [p51-dupl- chacua:ni-tza-prt1-ti1-nemi aux01] FC. word.count: 2 * tza chala:ni *** conchachalatza. they raise a clamor. [p33-o:n-dupl-chala:ni-tza] FC. netechachalatza =mo=omonetechachalatz. cutir, o herirse vnas cosas con otras. [p54-poss-tech1-dupl-chala:ni-tza +chch>ch +embed +post.as.noun.2] 71m2-10. netechachalatza =nitla. cutir vna vasija con otra. [p11-p51-poss-tech1- dupl-chala:ni-tza +chch>ch +embed +post.as.noun.2] 71m1-6. netechachalatzaliztli =tla. herida o el acto de herir o cutir vnas cosas con otras. [p51-p53-tech1-dupl-chala:ni-tza-liz +chch>ch +embed +post.as.noun.2] 71m2-22. netechchachalatza =mo. herirse vnas cosas con otras. [p54-poss-tech1- dupl-chala:ni-tza +chch>chch +embed +post.as.noun.2] 71m1-13. netechchachalatza =nitla. cutir vna vasija con otra. [p11-p51-poss- tech1-dupl-chala:ni-tza +chch>chch +embed +post.as.noun.2] 55m-4. netechchachalatzaliztli =tla. herida assi. [p51-poss-tech1-dupl- chala:ni-tza-liz +chch>chch +embed +post.as.noun.2] 71m1-13. * tza chapa:ni *** chachapatza =nitla=onitlachachapatz. chapatear por lodazales. [p11-p51- dupl-chapa:ni-tza] 71m2-3. colchachapatzaya. they spattered it with rubber. [p33-o:lli-dupl- chapa:ni-tza-ya3] FC. mochilchachapatz. it is blotched with red, chili-red. [p54-chi:lli- dupl-chapa:ni-tza-prt1] FC. mo[i]ztacachachapatza. it is spotted white. [p54-iztatl-v01b-delya- ca:6-dupl-chapa:ni-tza] FC. m[o]olchachapatz. it is blotched as with rubber. [p54-o:lli-dupl- chapa:ni-tza-prt1] FC. m[o]olchachapatz. it is spotted with black, it spotted itself with black. [p54-o:lli-dupl-chapa:ni-tza-prt1] FC. motlapalchachapatza. it is spattered with color. [p54-p51-pa:3-l1-dupl- chapa:ni-tza] FC. motlilchachapatz. it is blotched with black. [p54-tli:lli-dupl- chapa:ni-tza-prt1] FC. motlilchachapatz. it was spattered with black. [p54-tli:lli-dupl- chapa:ni-tza-prt1] FC. motlilchachazpatz. he is (as if) splashed with black. [p54-tli:lli- dupl-chapa:ni-tza-prt1] FC. tlaolchachapatzalli. spattered with rubber. [p51-ol?-dupl-chapa:ni-tza- l1] FC. * tza chaya:hui *** chachayatza =nitla=onitlachachayatz. derramar o esparzir por el suelo trigo, mayz, o cosa semejante. [p11-p51-dupl-chaya:hui-tza] 71m2-3. chachayatza =nitla. esparzir, o^descarriar. [p11-p51-dupl-chaya:hui- tza] 71m1-11. michayatza. . [michin-chaya:hui-tza +bakf +chch>ch] FC. word.count: 4 * tza chaya:hui? *** mocuechichayatza. it shakes its rattles. [p54-cuechtli--chaya:hui?-tza] FC. word.count: 1 * tza chichinaca *** chichinatz =te. cosa que aflige y atormenta. [p52-chichinaca-tza-prt1 .bbbb] 71m2-16. chichinatza =nite=onitechichinatz. afligir o atormentar a otro. [p11- p52-chichinaca-tza .bbbb] 71m2-4. chichinatza =nite. penar por tormento. [p11-p52-chichinaca-tza .bbbb] 71m1-17. chichinatzaliztli =te. aflicion o afligimiento tal. [p52-chichinaca- tza-liz .bbbb] 55m-00. chichinatzani =te. afligidor tal. [p52-chichinaca-tza-ni1 .bbbb] 55m- 00. chichinatzca. place of suffering. [chichinaca-tza-ca:n +del.n] FC. chichinatzqui =te. atormentador tal. [p52-chichinaca-tza-prt1-qui1 .bbbb] 71m2-16. chichinatztli =tla. afligido assi. [p51-chichinaca-tza-l2 .bbbb] 55m- 00. ichichinatzcan. . [poss-chichinaca-tza-prt1-ca:n] FC. quichichinachilia. they torture him. [p33-chichinaca-tza-- .bbbb] FC. quichichinatzaya. they tormented it. [p33-chichinaca-tza-ya3] FC. techichichinatzcan. place of suffering. [p52-dupl-chichinaca-tza-ca:n] FC. techichinatzcan. place of suffering. [p52-chichinaca-tza-ca:n] FC. techichinatzyan. . [p52-dupl-chichinaca-tza-ya:n +tzy>tzy] FC. yollochichinatza =nite=oniteyollochichinatz. afligir y angustiar a otro desta manera. [p11-p52-yo:lli-yo:tl1-chichinaca-tza +ly>ll .bbbb] 71m2-7. * tza chipi:ni *** conchichipitza. he spatters it. [p33-o:n-dupl-chipi:ni-tza] FC. conolchichipitza. they sprinkle it with liquid rubber. [p33-o:n-o:lli- dupl-chipi:ni-tza] FC. quichichipitza. they spatter it. [p33-dupl-chipi:ni-tza] FC. word.count: 3 * tza chito:ni *** quichichitotzaya. they tossed it out. [p33-dupl-chito:ni-tza-ya3] FC. quihualchichitotzqueh. they made it burst out. [p33-hua:l-dupl- chito:ni-tza-prt1-plur01] FC. word.count: 2 * tza chopi:nia: *** chochopitztli =tla. picada cosa de muchas picaduras. [p51-dupl- chopi:nia:-tza-l2] 71m1-17. * tza chopo:ni *** chochopotza =nitla=onitlachochopotz. comer o tragar grano o semilla el paxaro. [p11-p51-dupl-chopo:ni-tza] 71m2-4. tlachochopotza. it pecks repeatedly. [p51-dupl-chopo:ni-tza] FC. word.count: 2 * tza como:ni *** acocomotza. it beats the water. [a:tl1-dupl-como:ni-tza +cord] FC. cocomotza =nino=oninococomotz. paladear el ni?o quando mama. [p11-p54- dupl-como:ni-tza] 71m2-4. cocomotza =nitla=onitlacocomotz. hazer estruendo con los pies. [p11- p51-dupl-como:ni-tza] 71m2-4. cocomotza =nitla. patear hazer estruendo. [p11-p51-dupl-como:ni-tza] 55m-15. cocomotzahui. it splashes. [dupl-como:ni-tza-l2-v03b] FC. cocomotzaliztli =tla. estruendo assi. [p51-dupl-como:ni-tza-liz] 55m- 9. cocomotzaliztli =tla. ruido de patatas, o de golpes. [p51-dupl-como:ni- tza-liz] 71m2-20. cohcomotzahui. it crackles. [dupl-como:ni-tza-l2-v03b] FC. comotzahui. it crackles. [como:ni-tza-l2-v03b +bakf] FC. quicocomotza. it sounds it, it crackles it. [p33-dupl-como:ni-tza +cord] FC. tlacocomotza. he makes a racket. [p51-dupl-como:ni-tza] FC. tlacocomotzaliztli. din, noise. [p51-dupl-como:ni-tza-liz] FC. tlacocomotzoani. one who makes a shattering din. [p51-dupl-como:ni-tza- l1--ni1] FC. tlalcocomotza =ni. ruydo hazer estos. [p11-tla:lli-dupl-como:ni-tza] 71m1-19. tlalcocomotzaliztli. ruido o estruendo de gente de guerra, o de cosa semejante. [tla:lli-dupl-como:ni-tza-liz] 71m2-21. * tza coto:ni *** cocototza =nite. a^pedazos sacar el ni?o muerto del vientre. [p11-p52- dupl-coto:ni-tza] 71m1-2. cocototza =nitla=onitlacocototz. cortar algo muy menudo, o hazerlo pedazos. [p11-p51-dupl-coto:ni-tza] 71m2-4. cocototza =nitla. cortar algo muy menudo. [p11-p51-dupl-coto:ni-tza] 71m1-5. cocototza =nitla. cortar menudo. [p11-p51-dupl-coto:ni-tza] 55m-4. cocototza =nitla. desmenuzar pan o cosa assi. [p11-p51-dupl-coto:ni- tza] 55m-5. cocototza =nitla. destrozar a alguno. [p11-p51-dupl-coto:ni-tza] 55m- 20. cocototzaliztli =tla. desmenuzamiento. [p51-dupl-coto:ni-tza-liz] 55m- 5. cocototzaliztli =tla. despedazamiento de mantas rompidas en muchas partes, o desmenuzamiento de algo. [p51-dupl-coto:ni-tza-liz] 71m2- 20. cocototzani =tla. cortador tal. [p51-dupl-coto:ni-tza-ni1] 71m1-5. cocototzani =tla. desmenuzador. [p51-dupl-coto:ni-tza-ni1] 71m1-7. cocototztli =tla. cortada cosa assi. [p51-dupl-coto:ni-tza-l2] 71m1- 5. cocototztli =tla. cosa despedazada assi. [p51-dupl-coto:ni-tza-l2] 71m2-20. neuctlaxcalcototztli. hojuela de massa tendida. [neuctli-p51-ixca-l1- coto:ni-tza-l2 +bakf] 71m1-13. neuctlaxcalcototztli. hojuela de massa tendida. [neuctli-p51-ixca-l1- coto:ni-tza-l2 +bakf] 55m-11. omococototz. it was broken into fragments. [o:-p54-dupl-coto:ni-tza- prt1] FC. quicocototza. it breaks it up, it cuts it up. [p33-dupl-coto:ni-tza] FC. quixcocototza. she hacks her face. [p33-i:xtli-dupl-coto:ni-tza] FC. word.count: 23 * tza cuala:ni *** cuacualatza. it keeps blistering. [dupl-cuala:ni-tza] FC. mocuacualatza. it is boiled. [p54-dupl-cuala:ni-tza] FC. mocuacualatzaz. it will be boiled. [p54-dupl-cuala:ni-tza-z] FC. nexcuacualatza =nitla=onitlanexcuacualatz. adobar con cernada mantas viejas de algodon. [p11-p51-nextli-dupl-cuala:ni-tza] 71m2-12. cuala:ni-tza] 71m1-1. nexcuacualatzalli =tla. adobada ropa assi. [p51-nextli-dupl-cuala:ni- tza-l1] 55m-00. ommocuacualatza. it is boiled. [o:n-p54-dupl-cuala:ni-tza] FC. teacuacualatz. it blistered someone. [p52-a:tl1-dupl-cuala:ni-tza- prt1] FC. tlaacuacualatza. it causes blisters. [p51-a:tl1-dupl-cuala:ni-tza] FC. tlaacuacualatzani. something that irritates and causes blisters. [p51- a:tl1-dupl-cuala:ni-tza-ni1] FC. tlacuacualatzalli. something cooked. [p51-dupl-cuala:ni-tza-l1] FC. tlanexcuacualatzalli. something boiled with ashes. [p51-nextli-dupl- cuala:ni-tza-l1] FC. * tza cuepo:ni *** quicuecuepotza. he repeatedly bursts it. [p33-dupl-cuepo:ni-tza] FC. word.count: 1 * tza cuetla:ni *** cuecuetlatza =nitla=onitlacuecuetlatz. blandear lanza o cosa assi. [p11- p51-dupl-cuetla:ni-tza] 71m2-5. cuecuetlatza =nitla. blandear lanza, arbol, espada o cosa assi. [p11- p51-dupl-cuetla:ni-tza] 55m-2. cuecuetlatza =nitla. blandear lanza, espada o arbol. [p11-p51-dupl- cuetla:ni-tza] 71m1-4. word.count: 3 * tza cueyo:ni *** cuacuecueyotz =te. cosa espantosa que pone grima. [p52-cua:itl-dupl- cueyo:ni-tza-prt1] 71m2-18. cuacuecueyotz =te. espantable cosa que poner temor. [p52-cua:itl-dupl- cueyo:ni-tza-prt1] 55m-9. cuacuecueyotz =te. espantable cosa que pone gran temor. [p52-cua:itl- dupl-cueyo:ni-tza-prt1] 71m1-11. ixcuecueyotza =nin=oninixcuecueyotz. pesta?ear. [p11-p54-i:xtli-dupl- cueyo:ni-tza] 71m2-8. ixcuecueyotza =nin. parpadear con los parpados. [p11-p54-i:xtli-dupl- cueyo:ni-tza] 71m1-16. ixcuecueyotza =nin. parpadear con los parpados. [p11-p54-i:xtli-dupl- cueyo:ni-tza] 55m-15. quicuecueyotza. they make it gleam. [p33-dupl-cueyo:ni-tza] FC. tecuecueyotz. it made someone throb. [p52-dupl-cueyo:ni-tza-prt1] FC. word.count: 8 * tza huahualoa *** tlahuahuahualtzatinemi =nohuiampa ni. ladrar por diuersas partes. [no:huiya:n-pa1 p11-p51-huahualoa-tza--ti1-nemi aux01] 55m-12. word.count: 1 * tza hual! *** huahualtza =nite=onitehuahualtzac. ladrar el perro a alguno. [p11-p52- dupl-hual!-tza +prob] 71m2-26. huahualtza =nite. ladrar contra otro. [p11-p52-dupl-hual!-tza] 71m1- 14. huahualtza =nite. ladrar contra otro. [p11-p52-dupl-hual!-tza] 55m- 12. huahualtza =nitla=onitlahuahualtzac. ladrar el perro. [p11-p51-dupl- hual!-tza +mis_analysis.] 71m2-24. huahualtza =nitla=onitlahuahualtzac. ladrar el perro. [p11-p51-dupl- hual!-tza] 71m2-26. huahualtza =nitla. ladrar los perros. [p11-p51-dupl-hual!-tza +prob] 71m1-14. huahualtza =nitla. ladrar los perros. [p11-p51-dupl-hual!-tza] 55m- 12. huahualtza =tehuan nitla. ladrar con otro. [poss-hua:n1 p11-p51-dupl- hual!-tza +out.rig] 71m1-14. huahualtza =tehuan nitla. ladrar con otro. [poss-hua:n1 p11-p51-dupl- hual!-tza +out.rig] 55m-12. huahualtzaliztli =te. ladrido de perros. [p52-dupl-hual!-tza-liz] 71m1- 14. huahualtzaliztli =te. ladrido de perros. [p52-dupl-hual!-tza-liz] 55m- 12. huahualtzaliztli =tla. el acto de ladrar el perro. [p51-dupl-hual!-tza- liz] 71m2-24. huahualtzaliztli =tla. ladrido de perros. [p51-dupl-hual!-tza-liz] 71m1-14. huahualtzaliztli =tla. ladrido de perros. [p51-dupl-hual!-tza-liz] 55m- 12. huahualtzani =tla. ladrador. [p51-dupl-hual!-tza-ni1] 71m2-24. huahualtzatinemi =nohuiampa nitla. ladrar por diuersas partes. [no:huiya:n-pa1 p11-p51-dupl-hual!-tza-ti1-nemi aux01 +mis_analysis.4a] 71m1-14. huahualtzatzaliztli =te. ladridos de perros. [p52-dupl-hual!-tza--liz] 71m2-19. nechhuahualtzaz. it will bark at me. [p31-dupl-hual!-tza-z] FC. word.count: 18 * tza hua:qui *** ahuatza =n=onahuatz. agotar agua. [p11-a:tl1-hua:qui-tza] 71m2-2. ahuatza =n. agotar el agua. [p11-a:tl1-hua:qui-tza] 55m-00. ahuatza =n. agotar el agua. [p11-a:tl1-hua:qui-tza] 71m1-1. ahuatzaliztli. agotamiento. [a:tl1-hua:qui-tza-liz] 55m-00. ahuatzaliztli. agotamiento de agua. [a:tl1-hua:qui-tza-liz] 71m2-2. ahuatzaliztli. agotamiento, o el acto de agotar agua. [a:tl1-hua:qui- tza-liz] 71m1-1. ahuatzalli. agotada agua. [a:tl1-hua:qui-tza-l1] 55m-00. ahuatzalli. agotada agua. [a:tl1-hua:qui-tza-l1] 71m1-1. ahuatzalli. agua agotada. [a:tl1-hua:qui-tza-l1] 71m2-2. ahuatzalpan. on dried mud. [a:tl1-hua:qui-tza-l1-pan +cord] FC. ahuatzani. agotador. [a:tl1-hua:qui-tza-ni1] 55m-00. ahuatzani. agotador de agua. [a:tl1-hua:qui-tza-ni1] 71m2-2. ahuatzani. agotador tal. [a:tl1-hua:qui-tza-ni1] 71m1-1. ahuatzqui. agotador. [a:tl1-hua:qui-tza-prt1-qui1] 55m-00. ahuatzqui. agotador de agua. [a:tl1-hua:qui-tza-prt1-qui1] 71m2-2. ahuatzqui. agotador tal. [a:tl1-hua:qui-tza-prt1-qui1] 71m1-1. canauhtlahuatzalli. dried duck. [canauhtli-p51-hua:qui-tza-l1] FC. chamolhuatzalli. dried scarlet parrot feather. [chamolin-hua:qui-tza- l1] FC. cototzhuatzani =tla. marchitador. [p51-cototztli-hua:qui-tza-ni1] 71m1- 15. coyamenacahuatzalli. tocino. [coyametl-nacatl-hua:qui-tza-l1] 71m1- 20. coyamenacahuatzalli. tocino. [coyametl-nacatl-hua:qui-tza-l1] 71m2-4. coyamenacahuatzalli. tocino. [coyametl-nacatl-hua:qui-tza-l1] 55m-19. cuahuatzallah. . [cuahuitl-hua:qui-tza-l1-tlah2 .ahd] FC. cuahuatzalli. dry wood. [cuahuitl-hua:qui-tza-l1 +ww>w] FC. cuanhuatza =nite. enflaquecer a otro. [p11-p52-cuahuitl-hua:qui-tza +ww>nw] 55m-7. cuanhuatza =nite. enflaquecer a otro. [p11-p52-cuahuitl-hua:qui-tza +ww>nw] 71m1-10. cuauhhuatzalli. le?a seca para quemar. [cuahuitl-hua:qui-tza-l1] 55m- 12. cuauhtizahuatzalli. le?a seca para^quemar. [cuahuitl-ti:zatl-hua:qui- tza-l1 +prob] 71m1-14. cuauhtizahuatzalli. le?a seca para quemar. [cuahuitl-ti:zatl-hua:qui- tza-l1 +prob] 55m-12. cuauhtizahuatzalli. palo seco, o le?o. [cuahuitl-ti:zatl-hua:qui-tza- l1 +prob] 71m2-15. cuauhuatza =nite=onitecuauhuatz. enflaquecer a otro desta manera. [p11- p52-cuahuitl-hua:qui-tza +ww>w] 71m2-15. cuauhuatzalli. dried wood. [cuahuitl-hua:qui-tza-l1 +ww>w] FC. cuauhuatzalli. le?a seca para^quemar. [cuahuitl-hua:qui-tza-l1 +ww>w] 71m1-14. cuauhuatzalli. palo. [cuahuitl-hua:qui-tza-l1 +ww>w] 71m1-16. cuauhuatzalli. palo. [cuahuitl-hua:qui-tza-l1 +ww>w] 55m-15. cuauhuatzalli. palo seco, o le?o. [cuahuitl-hua:qui-tza-l1 +ww>w] 71m2- 15. cuauhuatzalti. it becomes a dried tree. [cuahuitl-hua:qui-tza-l1-v01a .ahd +ww>w] FC. cuauhuatzaltontli. palillo seco. [cuahuitl-hua:qui-tza-l1-to:n-tl +ww>w] 71m2-15. cuauhuatzaltontli. palo peque?o o palillo. [cuahuitl-hua:qui-tza-l1- to:n-tl +ww>w] 71m1-16. cuauhuatzaltontli. palo peque?o o palillo. [cuahuitl-hua:qui-tza-l1- to:n-tl +ww>w] 55m-15. cuitlatexcalhuatzaliztli. colicapassio. [cuitlatl-texcalli1-hua:qui- tza-liz] 71m2-5. cuiyatlahuatzalli. hard-baked frog. [cueyatl-p51-hua:qui-tza-l1 +e>i] FC. ecahuatza =nitla=onitlaecahuatz. orear algo, poniendolo al ayre. [p11- p51-e:catl-hua:qui-tza] 71m2-5. ecahuatza =nitla. orear poner al ayre. [p11-p51-e:catl-hua:qui-tza] 71m1-16. ecahuatza =nitla. orear poner al ayre. [p11-p51-e:catl-hua:qui-tza] 55m-15. ecahuatza =nitla. secar al ayre. [p11-p51-e:catl-hua:qui-tza] 71m1- 19. eecahuatza =nitla=onitlaeecahuatz. orear algo poniendolo al ayere. [p11-p51-dupl-e:catl-hua:qui-tza] 71m2-5. eecahuatza =nitla. secar al ayre. [p11-p51-dupl-e:catl-hua:qui-tza] 71m1-19. eecahuatza =nitla. secar al ayre. [p11-p51-dupl-e:catl-hua:qui-tza] 55m-18. ehuahuatza =nitla=. secar pieles o cueros. [p11-p51-e:huatl-hua:qui- tza] 71m2-5. ehuahuatzqui. pellejero que las cura. [e:huatl-hua:qui-tza-prt1-qui1] 71m1-17. ehuahuatzqui. pellejero que los seca. [e:huatl-hua:qui-tza-prt1-qui1] 71m2-5. ehuahuatzqui. pellejero que las cura. [e:huatl-hua:qui-tza-prt1-qui1] 55m-15. hecahuatza =nitla. secar al ayre. [p11-dupl-e:catl-hua:qui-tza] 55m- 18. hicoxhuatzalli. higo seca fruta. [++hicox-hua:qui-tza-l1 +spanish] 55m- 11. hicoxhuatzalli. higo seco fruta. [++hicox-hua:qui-tza-l1 +spanish] 71m1-13. hicoxhuatzalli. higos passados, o secos. [++hicox-hua:qui-tza-l1 +spanish] 71m2-5. huahuatzqui =mo. el que se enxugo con lienzo despues que selauo. [p54- dupl-hua:qui-tza-prt1-c2] 71m2-10. huahuatzqui =mo. enxuto assi. [p54-dupl-hua:qui-tza-prt1-c2] 55m-8. huatza =nino=oninohuatz. enxugarse. [p11-p54-hua:qui-tza] 71m2-26. huatza =nino. enxugarse con lienzo o cosa assi. [p11-p54-hua:qui-tza] 55m-8. huatza =nino. enxugarse con lienzo o con cosa assi. [p11-p54-hua:qui- tza] 71m1-10. huatza =nite=onitehuatz. enxugar, secar, o enflaquecer a otro. [p11- p52-hua:qui-tza] 71m2-26. huatza =nite. emmagrecer a otro. [p11-p52-hua:qui-tza] 55m-7. huatza =nite. emmagrecer a otro. [p11-p52-hua:qui-tza] 71m1-9. huatza =nite. enflaquecer a otro. [p11-p52-hua:qui-tza] 55m-7. huatza =nite. enflaquecer a otro. [p11-p52-hua:qui-tza] 71m1-10. huatza =nitla=onitlahuatz. enxugar, o secar algo. [p11-p51-hua:qui- tza] 71m2-26. huatza =nitla. enxugar algo. [p11-p51-hua:qui-tza] 55m-8. huatza =nitla. enxugar algo. [p11-p51-hua:qui-tza] 71m1-10. huatza =nitla. secar. [p11-p51-hua:qui-tza] 71m1-19. huatza =nitla. tostar. [p11-p51-hua:qui-tza] 55m-19. huatza in atl =nic. agotar el agua. [p11-p33-hua:qui-tza in a:tl1] 55m- 00. huatza in atl =nic. agotar el agua. [p11-p33-hua:qui-tza in a:tl1] 71m1-1. huatzalli =tla. cosa enxugada, o secada. [p51-hua:qui-tza-l1] 71m2- 24. huatzalli =tla. enxugado o enxuto. [p51-hua:qui-tza-l1] 55m-8. huatzalli =tla. enxugado o enxuto. [p51-hua:qui-tza-l1] 71m1-10. huatzalli =tla. seco cosa seca. [p51-hua:qui-tza-l1] 71m1-19. huatzalli =tla. seco, cosa seca. [p51-hua:qui-tza-l1] 55m-18. huatzalli =tla. tostada cosa. [p51-hua:qui-tza-l1] 55m-19. huatzaloni. means of drying something. [hua:qui-tza-lo:2-ni1] FC. huatzqui =mo. enxuto assi. [p54-hua:qui-tza-prt1-qui1] 71m1-10. huatztli =tla. cosa enxugada, o secada. [p51-hua:qui-tza-l2] 71m2-24. huatztli =tla. enxugado o enxuto. [p51-hua:qui-tza-l2] 55m-8. huatztli =tla. enxugado o enxuto. [p51-hua:qui-tza-l2] 71m1-10. huatztli =tla. seco cosa seca. [p51-hua:qui-tza-l2] 71m1-19. huatztli =tla. seco, cosa seca. [p51-hua:qui-tza-l2] 55m-18. ihhuitlahuatzalli. glue-hardened feather. [ihhuitl-p51-hua:qui-tza-l1] FC. itlahuatzallo. its glue-hardened feathers. [poss-p51-hua:qui-tza-l1- yo:tl1 +ly>ll] FC. ixtlapalhuatzaleh. one who has a red face. [i:xtli-p51-pa:3-l1-hua:qui- tza-l1-eh1] FC. michhuatzaltepiton ?stillan. sardina arrencada pece conocido. [++castillan michin-hua:qui-tza-l1-tepi-to:n +spanish] 71m1-19. michhuatzaltepiton ?stillan. sardina arencada pece conocido. [++castillan michin-hua:qui-tza-l1-tepi-to:n +spanish] 55m-18. mohuatza. it hibernates. [p54-hua:qui-tza] FC. mohuatza. it is dried. [p54-hua:qui-tza] FC. m[o]ixtlapalhuatzalhuia. her face is covered with rouge. [p54-i:xtli- p51-pa:3-l1-hua:qui-tza-l1-v05b] FC. m[o]ixtlapalhuatzalhuia. his face is colored with red ochre. [p54- i:xtli-p51-pa:3-l1-hua:qui-tza-l1-v05b] FC. m[o]ixtlapalhuatzalhuiaya. their faces were covered with brown. [p54- i:xtli-p51-pa:3-l1-hua:qui-tza-l1-v05b-ya3] FC. m[o]ixtlapalhuatzalhuih. his face was colored red. [p54-i:xtli-p51- pa:3-l1-hua:qui-tza-l1-v05b-prt1] FC. motenhuatzani. one who parches his lips. [p54-te:ntli-hua:qui-tza-ni1] FC. motlehuatza. it is braised. [p54-tletl1-hua:qui-tza] FC. motlehuatzaz. it will roast. [p54-tletl1-hua:qui-tza-z] FC. motzauchuatza. it is glue-hardened. [p54-tzacui-l2-hua:qui-tza] FC. nacatlahuatzalli. dried meat. [nacatl-p51-hua:qui-tza-l1] FC. nacatlatepihuatzalli. jerked meat. [nacatl--hua:qui-tza-l1] FC. nehuatzaloni. something for keeping oneself dry. [p53-hua:qui-tza-lo:2- ni1] FC. netenhuatzaliztli. abstention from food. [p53-te:ntli-hua:qui-tza-liz] FC. neuctlatepihuatzalli. turron de miel. [neuctli-p51-tetl1-pi:tztli- hua:qui-tza-l1] 71m1-20. neuctlatepihuatzalli. turron de miel. [neuctli-p51-tetl1-pi:tztli- hua:qui-tza-l1] 55m-19. neuctlatepitzhuatzalli. turron. [neuctli-p51-tetl1-pi:tztli-hua:qui- tza-l1] 71m2-11. nextamalhuatzalli. . [nextli-tamalli-hua:qui-tza-l1] FC. pilichhuatzani =tla. marchitador. [p51-pili:ni-l2-hua:qui-tza-ni1 +n>ch] 71m1-15. pitzometzhuatzalli. pernil de tocino. [pitzotl-metztli2-hua:qui-tza- l1] 71m1-17. pitzometzhuatzalli. pernil de tocino. [pitzotl-metztli2-hua:qui-tza- l1] 55m-15. pitzometzhuatzalli. pernil de tocino. [pitzotl-metztli2-hua:qui-tza- l1] 71m2-14. quicuahuatzaya. they thinned him. [p33-cuahuitl-hua:qui-tza-ya3] FC. quihuatza. it dries it, it sucks it dry. [p33-hua:qui-tza] FC. quihuatza. they dry it up. [p33-hua:qui-tza] FC. quimiztayocuauhuatza. they cure them in brine. [p43-iztatl-yo:tl1- cuahuitl-hua:qui-tza] FC. quincuitlahuatzqueh. they withered their entrails. [p43-cuitlatl- hua:qui-tza-prt1-plur01] FC. quintlehuatza. they roast them. [p43-tletl1-hua:qui-tza] FC. quitlehuatza. they broil it. [p33-tletl1-hua:qui-tza] FC. quitletlehuatzaya. they roasted it. [p33-dupl-tletl1-hua:qui-tza-ya3] FC. quiztayocuahuatza. they thin him with brine. [p33-iztatl-yo:tl1- cuahuitl-hua:qui-tza] FC. tepitztentli =hicoxhuatzalli tla. higos enserados. [++hicox-hua:qui- tza-l1 p51-tetl1-pi:tztli-te:mi-caus09=0-l2 +spanish] 71m1-13. tepitztentli =hicoxhuatzalli tla. higos enserados. [++hicox-hua:qui- tza-l1 p51-tetl1-pi:tztli-te:mi-caus09=0-l2 +spanish] 55m-11. tepoztlapechtlatlahuatzaloni. parrillas para assar. [tepoztli-tla?- pechtli-dupl-p51-hua:qui-tza-lo:2-ni1 +fusion] 55m-15. tepoztlapechtlatlahuatzaloni. parillas para assar algo. [tepoztli-tla?- pechtli-dupl-p51-hua:qui-tza-lo:2-ni1 +fusion] 71m2-18. tepoztlapechtlatlehuatzaloni. parrillas para assar. [tepoztli-tla?- pechtli-tla?-tletl1-hua:qui-tza-lo:2-ni1] 71m1-16. tetzauhcahuatzalli chichihualayotl =tla. queso. [p51-tetza:hua-prt1- ca:6-hua:qui-tza-l1 chi:chi:3-hua1-l1-a:tl1-yo:tl1] 71m1-18. tetzauhcahuatzalli chichihualayotl =tla. queso. [p51-tetza:hua-prt1- ca:6-hua:qui-tza-l1 chi:chi:3-hua1-l1-a:tl1-yo:tl1] 55m-16. tetzauhcahuatzalli chichihualayotl =tla. queso curado, y anejo. [p51- tetza:hua-prt1-ca:6-hua:qui-tza-l1 chi:chi:3-hua1-l1-a:tl1-yo:tl1] 71m2-23. tetzolhuatzalo. . [tetzotl-v01b-delya-l1-hua:qui-tza-lo:1] FC. texhuatzalli. dried maize dough. [teci-l2-hua:qui-tza-l1] FC. timotenhuatzaz. you will dry your lips. [p12-p54-te:ntli-hua:qui-tza- z] FC. timotenhuatzaz. you will parch your lips. [p12-p54-te:ntli-hua:qui-tza- z] FC. tlahuatzalli. dried. [p51-hua:qui-tza-l1] FC. tlahuatzalli. glue-hardened (i.e., feathers). [p51-hua:qui-tza-l1] FC. tlahuatzalli. something baked. [p51-hua:qui-tza-l1] FC. tlahuatzalli. something dried, hardened. [p51-hua:qui-tza-l1] FC. tlahuatzalli. something which has been dried. [p51-hua:qui-tza-l1] FC. tlahuatzaloni. means of drying something. [p51-hua:qui-tza-lo:2-ni1] FC. tlaixtlapalhuatzalhuilli. one who face is reddened. [p51-i:xtli-p51- pa:3-l1-hua:qui-tza-l1-v05b-l1] FC. tlapalhuatzalli. color colorado y afinado, hecho en tablillas o pastillas. [p51-pa:3-l1-hua:qui-tza-l1] 71m2-22. tlapalhuatzalli. colorado fino. [p51-pa:3-l1-hua:qui-tza-l1] 55m-3. tlapalhuatzalli. colorado fino. [p51-pa:3-l1-hua:qui-tza-l1] 71m1-5. tlapalhuatzalli. dried pigment. [p51-pa:3-l1-hua:qui-tza-l1] FC. tlapalhuatzalloa. it is treated with dry color. [p51-pa:3-l1-hua:qui- tza-l1-yo:tl1-v09 +ly>ll] FC. tlapalhuatzaltica. with dried colors, using dried colors. [p51-pa:3-l1- hua:qui-tza-l1-ti1-ca2] FC. tlatlehuatzalli =tocino. torrezno de tocino. [++tocino p51-tletl1- hua:qui-tza-l1 +spanish] 71m1-20. tlatlehuatzalli. roasted. [p51-tletl1-hua:qui-tza-l1] FC. tlatlehuatzalli. something roasted. [p51-tletl1-hua:qui-tza-l1] FC. tlatlehuatzalo. there is roasting of something. [p51-tletl1-hua:qui- tza-lo:2] FC. tlatzauchuatzalli. something which has been glued and dried. [p51- tzacui-l2-hua:qui-tza-l1] FC. tlehuatza =nitla=onitlatlehuatz. asar algo en asador o en parrillae. [p11-p51-tletl1-hua:qui-tza] 71m2-25. tlehuatza =nitla. assar en assador. [p11-p51-tletl1-hua:qui-tza] 55m- 1. tlehuatza =nitla. assar en assador o en parrillas. [p11-p51-tletl1- hua:qui-tza] 71m1-3. tlehuatza =nitla. secar al huego. [p11-p51-tletl1-hua:qui-tza] 71m1- 19. tlehuatza =nitla. secar al huego. [p11-p51-tletl1-hua:qui-tza] 55m- 18. tlehuatza =nitla. tostar. [p11-p51-tletl1-hua:qui-tza] 71m1-20. tlehuatzaliztli =tla. assamiento tal. [p51-tletl1-hua:qui-tza-liz] 71m1-3. tlehuatzalli =tla. assada cosa assi. [p51-tletl1-hua:qui-tza-l1] 55m- 1. tlehuatzalli =tla. assada cosa assi. [p51-tletl1-hua:qui-tza-l1] 71m1- 3. tlehuatzalli =tla. cosa asada en asador, o en parrillas de hierro. [p51-tletl1-hua:qui-tza-l1] 71m2-24. tlehuatzalli =tla. tostada cosa. [p51-tletl1-hua:qui-tza-l1] 71m1-20. tlehuatzaloni =tla. asador. [p51-tletl1-hua:qui-tza-lo:2-ni1] 71m2- 24. tlehuatzaloni =tla. assador en que assan. [p51-tletl1-hua:qui-tza-lo:2- ni1] 55m-1. tlehuatzaloni =tla. assador en que assan. [p51-tletl1-hua:qui-tza-lo:2- ni1] 71m1-3. tlehuatztli =tla. . [p51-tletl1- hua:qui-tza-l2] 71m2-24. tlehuatztli =tla. assada cosa assi. [p51-tletl1-hua:qui-tza-l2] 55m- 1. tlehuatztli =tla. assada cosa assi. [p51-tletl1-hua:qui-tza-l2] 71m1- 3. tlepitzhuatz =te. dolor de algun golpe enla carne, que escueze mucho, y haze afligir y encoger al que le recibio. [p52-tletl1-pi:tza- hua:qui-tza--] 71m2-19. tletlepitzhuatza =nite=onitetletlepitzhuatz. hazer a otro ronchas o se?ales de cardenales, con los azotes o palos que le di. [p11-p52- dupl-tletl1-pi:tza-hua:qui-tza] 71m2-25. tochtlahuatzaltontli. small dried rabbit. [to:chin-p51-hua:qui-tza-l1- to:n] FC. tocinotlatlehuatzalli. torrezno de tocino. [++tocino-p51-tletl1- hua:qui-tza-l1 +spanish] 55m-19. tonalcuauhuatza =nitla=onitlatonalcuauhuatz. passar o secar algo al sol, o asolear. [p11-p51-to:n2-v12-l1-cuahuitl-hua:qui-tza +ww>w] 71m2-25. tonalcuauhuatza =nitla. passar al sol alguna cosa o asolear. [p11-p51- to:n2-v12-l1-cuahuitl-hua:qui-tza +ww>w] 71m1-16. tonalcuauhuatza =nitla. passar al sol o asolear. [p11-p51-to:n2-v12-l1- cuahuitl-hua:qui-tza +ww>w] 55m-15. tonalhuatza =nitla=onitlatonalhuatz. enxugar algo al sol, o passar higos o passas. &c. [p11-p51-to:n2-v12-l1-hua:qui-tza] 71m2-25. tonalhuatza =nitla. aenxugar al sol. [p11-p51-to:n2-v12-l1-hua:qui- tza] 71m1-10. tonalhuatza =nitla. passar al sol alguna cosa o asolear. [p11-p51- to:n2-v12-l1-hua:qui-tza] 71m1-16. tonalhuatza =nitla. passar al sol o asolear. [p11-p51-to:n2-v12-l1- hua:qui-tza] 55m-15. tonalhuatza =nitla. secar al sol. [p11-p51-to:n2-v12-l1-hua:qui-tza] 71m1-19. tonalhuatza =nitla. secar al sol. [p11-p51-to:n2-v12-l1-hua:qui-tza] 55m-18. totollalehuatzalli. roasted turkey hen. [to:tolin-p51--tletl1-hua:qui- tza-l1 +l.for.tl] FC. totopochhuatza =nitla. tostar. [p11-p51-dupl-topo:ni-l2-hua:qui-tza +n>ch] 71m1-20. totopochhuatza =nitla. tostar. [p11-p51-dupl-topo:ni-l2-hua:qui-tza +n>ch] 55m-19. totopochhuatzalli =tla. cosa muy tostada asi como reuanadas de pan, tortillas o cosa assi. [p51-dupl-topo:ni-l2-hua:qui-tza-l1 +n>ch] 71m2-24. totopochhuatzalli =tla. tostada cosa. [p51-dupl-topo:ni-l2-hua:qui-tza- l1 +n>ch] 71m1-20. totopochhuatzalli =tla. tostada cosa. [p51-dupl-topo:ni-l2-hua:qui-tza- l1 +n>ch] 55m-19. tzauchuatzalli. something which has been glued and dried. [tzacui-l2- hua:qui-tza-l1] FC. xocomecahuatzalli. passa vua passada. [xocotl-mecatl-hua:qui-tza-l1] 71m1-16. xocomecahuatzalli. passa vna passada. [xocotl-mecatl-hua:qui-tza-l1] 55m-15. xocomecahuatzalli. passa vua seca. [xocotl-mecatl-hua:qui-tza-l1] 71m2- 27. xohuatza =nite=onitexohuatz. enflaquecer o emmagrecer a otro. [p11-p52- xo:tl2-hua:qui-tza] 71m2-27. xohuatza =nite. emmagrecer a otro. [p11-p52-xo:tl2-hua:qui-tza] 55m- 7. xohuatza =nite. emmagrecer a otro. [p11-p52-xo:tl2-hua:qui-tza] 71m1- 9. xohuatztli =tla. hoja de mayz seca. [p51-xo:tl2-hua:qui-tza-l2] 71m1- 13. xohuatztli =tla. hoja de mayz seca. [p51-xo:tl2-hua:qui-tza-l2] 55m- 11. xohuatztli =tla. hoja de mayz seca para bestias. [p51-xo:tl2-hua:qui- tza-l2] 71m2-25. word.count: 207 * tza huiyo:ni *** huihuiyotzaloz. there will be trembling. [dupl-huiyo:ni-tza-lo:2-z] FC. tlahuihuiyotza. he causes trembling. [p51-dupl-huiyo:ni-tza] FC. word.count: 2 * tza ihcahuaca *** quihcahuatza. . [p33-ihcahuaca-tza] FC. quihcahuatztihui. they go crying out at him. [p33-ihcahuaca-tza-prt1- ti1-yauh2 aux14b] FC. quihcahuatztihui. they go along buzzing at it. [p33-ihcahuaca-tza-prt1- ti1-yauh2 aux14b +cord] FC. quihcahuatztihui. they go shouting at it. [p33-ihcahuaca-tza-prt1-ti1- yauh2 aux14b] FC. quihcahuatztihuia. they went shouting at him. [p33-ihcahuaca-tza-prt1- ti1-yauh2-ya3 aux14b] FC. quihcahuatztihuitze. they come making noise at it. [p33-ihcahuaca-tza- prt1-ti1-hui:tz-plur05 aux06] FC. quihcahuatztinemi. he keeps shouting at them. [p33-ihcahuaca-tza-prt1- ti1-nemi aux01] FC. quimihcahuatza. they roar at them. [p43-ihcahuaca-tza] FC. quimihcahuatztihui. they go roaring at them. [p43-ihcahuaca-tza-prt1- ti1-yauh2 aux14b] FC. quimihcahuatztihui. they roar at them. [p43-ihcahuaca-tza-prt1-ti1- yauh2 aux14b] FC. quinhualihcahuatza. they roar at them. [p43-hua:l-ihcahuaca-tza] FC. titla[i]hcahuatzaz. you will bellow. [p12-p51-ihcahuaca-tza-z] FC. tla[i]hcahuatza. he rumbles. [p51-ihcahuaca-tza] FC. tla[i]hcahuatza. she gives war cries. [p51-ihcahuaca-tza] FC. tla[i]hcahuatztihui. they go shouting. [p51-ihcahuaca-tza-prt1-ti1- yauh2 aux14b] FC. word.count: 16 * tza mol! *** momoltza =nitla. desmenuzar pan o cosa assi. [p11-p51-dupl-mol!-tza +prob] 55m-5. momoltza =nitla. desmenuzar pan o cosa semejante. [p11-p51-dupl-mol!- tza] 71m1-7. momoltza =nitla. despedazar pan. [p11-p51-dupl-mol!-tza] 71m1-8. word.count: 3 * tza molo:ni *** momolotza =nitla=onitlamomolotz. hazer espuma enel agua, meneandola. [p11-p51-dupl-molo:ni-tza] 71m2-10. momolotza =nitla. mecer o menear el agua haziendo ruido. [p11-p51-dupl- molo:ni-tza] 71m1-15. momolotzaliztli =tla. desmenuzamiento. [p51-dupl-molo:ni-tza-liz] 55m- 5. momolotzaliztli =tla. desmenuzamiento de pan, queso, o de cosas semejantes. [p51-dupl-molo:ni-tza-liz] 71m2-22. momolotzaliztli =tla. desmenuzamiento tal. [p51-dupl-molo:ni-tza-liz] 71m1-7. momolotzalli =tla. cosa desmenuzada assi. [p51-dupl-molo:ni-tza-l1] 71m2-22. momolotzalli =tla. desmenuzado. [p51-dupl-molo:ni-tza-l1] 55m-5. momolotzalli =tla. desmenuzado assi. [p51-dupl-molo:ni-tza-l1] 71m1- 7. momolotzani =tla. desmenuzador. [p51-dupl-molo:ni-tza-ni1] 71m1-7. quimomolotza. he bubbles it. [p33-dupl-molo:ni-tza] FC. quimomolotza. she swirls it. [p33-dupl-molo:ni-tza +n.for.m] FC. tlamomolotztinemi. . [p51-dupl-molo:ni-tza-prt1-ti1-nemi aux01] FC. word.count: 12 * tza nal! *** nanaltza =nite. ladrar contra otro. [p11-p52-dupl-nal!-tza] 71m1-14. nanaltza =nite. ladrar contra otro. [p11-p51-dupl-nal!-tza +prob] 55m- 12. nanaltza =nitla=onitlananaltzac. ladrar el perro. [p11-p51-dupl-nal!- tza] 71m2-11. nanaltzaliztli =tla. ladrido de perros. [p51-dupl-nal!-tza-liz] 71m1- 14. nanaltzaliztli =tla. ladrido de perros. [p51-dupl-nal!-tza-liz] 55m- 12. nanaltzatinemi =nohuian nitla. ladrar por diuersas partes. [no:huiya:n p11-p51-dupl-nal!-tza-ti1-nemi aux01 +prob] 71m1-14. nanaltzatinemi =nohuian nitla. ladrar por diuersas partes. [no:huiya:n p11-p51-dupl-nal!-tza-ti1-nemi aux01 +prob] 55m-12. word.count: 7 * tza pach! *** papatza =nitla=onitlapapatzac. cortar almendrada o leche, quando la cuezen. [p11-p51-dupl-pach!-tza +chtz>tz +prob] 71m2-14. papatza =nitla. cortar almendrada. [p11-p51-dupl-pach!-tza +chtz>tz +prob] 71m1-5. word.count: 2 * tza patla:ni *** tlapapatlatza. she flutters. [p51-dupl-patla:ni-tza +cord] FC. tlapapatlatztinemi. it keeps fluttering. [p51-dupl-patla:ni-tza-prt1- ti1-nemi aux01] FC. tlapapatlatztinemi. they go fluttering. [p51-dupl-patla:ni-tza-prt1- ti1-nemi aux01] FC. tlapapatlatztoc. it lies beating [i.e., its wings]. [p51-dupl-patla:ni- tza-prt1-ti1-o-prt2 aux13] FC. word.count: 4 * tza paya:ni *** tlaxcalpapayatza =ni. desmigar algo. [p11-p51-ixca-l1-dupl-paya:ni-tza] 71m1-7. tlaxcalpapayatzani. desmigador. [p51-ixca-l1-dupl-paya:ni-tza-ni1] 71m1-7. tlaxcalpapayatzqui. desmigador. [p51-ixca-l1-dupl-paya:ni-tza-prt1- qui1] 71m1-7. tlaxcalpapayatztli. desmigada cosa. [p11-p51-ixca-l1-dupl-paya:ni-tza- l2] 71m1-7. word.count: 4 * tza po:ca *** m[o]ixtlilpopotz. his face was covered with soot. [p54-i:xtli-tli:lli- dupl-po:ca-tza-prt1] FC. m[o]ixtlilpopotzqueh. they applied black paint to their [refl.] faces. [p54-i:xtli-tli:lli-po:ca-tza-prt1-plur01] FC. m[o]ixtlilpopotztinenca. he went about with his face smoke-black. [p54- i:xtli-tli:lli-po:ca-tza-prt1-ti1-nemi-prt1-ca10 aux01] FC. quixtlilpopotza. they blacken their faces. [p33-i:xtli-tli:lli-dupl- po:ca-tza] FC. tlaixtlilpopotzalli. having his face covered with soot. [p51-i:xtli- tli:lli-dupl-po:ca-tza-l1] FC. word.count: 6 * tza polo:ni *** nimitzpohpohlotza. I speak to you unintelligibly. [p11-p32-dupl-polo:ni- tza] FC. quinhualpopolotz. he spoke to them in a strange tongue. [p43-hua:l- dupl-polo:ni-tza-prt1] FC. ticpopolotza. you speak to him in a strange tongue. [p12-p33-dupl- polo:ni-tza] FC. word.count: 3 * tza quintli *** conquiquinatza. he growls at him. [p33-o:n-dupl-quintli-v03b-tza] FC. quiquinatza =nite=onitequiquinatz. rifar el cauallo. [p11-p52-dupl- quintli-v03b-tza] 71m2-15. quiquinatza =nite. rifar los cauallos. [p11-p52-dupl-quintli-v03b-tza] 71m1-18. quiquinatza =nite. rifar los cauallos. [p11-p52-dupl-quintli-v03b-tza] 55m-17. quiquinatzani =te. gru?idor assi como el perro, que esta gru?iendo y mostrando los dientes. [p52-dupl-quintli-v03b-tza-ni1] 71m2-18. quiquinatzani =te. rifadora cosa. [p52-dupl-quintli-v03b-tza-ni1] 71m1- 18. quiquinatzani =te. rifadora cosa. [p52-dupl-quintli-v03b-tza-ni1] 55m- 17. tequiquinatza. he grumbles at people. [p52-dupl-quintli-v03b-tza] FC. tequiquinatza. it moans at someone. [p52-dupl-quintli-v03b-tza] FC. tlalquiquinatza =ni. ruydo hazer estos. [p11-tla:lli-dupl-quintli-v03b- tza] 71m1-19. tlalquiquinatza =ni. ruydo hazer estos. [p11-tla:lli-dupl-quintli-v03b- tza] 55m-17. word.count: 11 * tza tecui:ni *** itetecuitzauhca. its asperous place. [poss-dupl-tecui:ni-tza-l2-v03b- prt1-ca:n +del.n] FC. quitetecuitza. it makes it crackle. [p33-dupl-tecui:ni-tza] FC. tehtecuitztic. chattering. [dupl-tecui:ni-tza-l2-tic] FC. tehtecuitztic. crackling. [dupl-tecui:ni-tza-l2-tic] FC. tetecuitza =nitla=. hazer estruendo con los pies. [p11-p51-dupl- tecui:ni-tza] 71m2-18. tetecuitza =nitla. estruendo, hazer con los pies o con golpes. [p11- p51-dupl-tecui:ni-tza] 55m-9. tetecuitza =nitla. estruendo hazer con los pies o con golpes. [p11-p51- dupl-tecui:ni-tza] 71m1-11. tetecuitza =nitla. patear, hazer estruendo. [p11-p51-dupl-tecui:ni- tza] 71m1-16. tetecuitza =nitla. patear hazer estruendo. [p11-p51-dupl-tecui:ni-tza] 55m-15. tetecuitzahui. it crackles. [dupl-tecui:ni-tza-l2-v03b] FC. tetecuitzahui. they crackle. [dupl-tecui:ni-tza-l2-v03b] FC. tetecuitzaliztli =tla. estruendo assi. [p51-dupl-tecui:ni-tza-liz] 55m- 9. tetecuitzaliztli =tla. estruendo de patadas, o de golpes. [p51-dupl- tecui:ni-tza-liz] 71m2-23. tetecuitzaliztli =tla. estruendo assi. [p51-dupl-tecui:ni-tza-liz] 71m1-11. tetecuitzaliztli =tla. ruydo de pies pateando. [p51-dupl-tecui:ni-tza- liz] 71m1-19. tetecuitzaliztli =tla. ruydo de pies pateando. [p51-dupl-tecui:ni-tza- liz] 55m-17. tetecuitzpol. asperous. [dupl-tecui:ni-tza-l2-tic] FC. tetecuitztic. . [dupl-tecui:ni-tza-l2-tic] FC. tetecuitztic. asperous. [dupl-tecui:ni-tza-l2-tic] FC. tetecuitztic. chattering. [dupl-tecui:ni-tza-l2-tic] FC. tetecuitztic. crackling. [dupl-tecui:ni-tza-l2-tic] FC. tetecuitztic. rough. [dupl-tecui:ni-tza-l2-tic] FC. tlahtlatetecuitzoa. he raises a clattering din. [dupl-p51-dupl- tecui:ni-tza-l2-- +fusion] FC. tlaltetecuitza =ni. ruydo hazer estos. [p11-tla:lli-dupl-tecui:ni-tza] 71m1-19. tlaltetecuitza =ni. ruydo hazer estos. [p11-tla:lli-dupl-tecui:ni-tza] 55m-17. tlaltetecuitzaliztli. estruendo, o ruido de gente que da grandes patadas, o de esquadron de soldados. [tla:lli-dupl-tecui:ni-tza- liz] 71m2-21. tlaltetecuitzaliztli. ruydo de gente armada. [tla:lli-dupl-tecui:ni- tza-liz] 71m1-19. tlaltetecuitzaliztli. ruydo de gente armada. [tla:lli-dupl-tecui:ni- tza-liz] 55m-17. tlatetecuitza. they beat, they make noise. [p51-dupl-tecui:ni-tza] FC. tlatetecuitzauhya. asperous place. [tla6-dupl-tecui:ni-tza-l2-v03b- prt1-ya:n +del.n] FC. tlatetecuitzoani. one who raises a clatter or din. [p51-dupl-tecui:ni- tza-l2--ni1] FC. tlatetecuitzoani. one who raises a clattering din. [p51-dupl-tecui:ni- tza-l2--ni1] FC. tlatiticuitza. he makes a clatter. [p51-dupl-tecui:ni-tza +e>i] FC. tlatiticuitza. they beat, they make noise. [p51-dupl-tecui:ni-tza] FC. word.count: 43 * tza tei:ni *** quiteteitz. he chewed it. [p33-dupl-tei:ni-tza-prt1 +cord] FC. teteitza =nite. roer. [p11-p52-dupl-tei:ni-tza] 55m-17. teteitza =nitla=onitlateteitz. roer huesso o cosa semejante. [p11-p51- dupl-tei:ni-tza] 71m2-18. teteitza =nitla. cruxir algo entre los dientes. [p11-p51-dupl-tei:ni- tza] 71m1-6. teteitza =nitla. roer. [p11-p51-dupl-tei:ni-tza] 71m1-19. teteitzaliztli =tla. el acto de roer hueso, o cosa semejante, o de quebrantar y hazer pedazos algun vaso de barro, o de vidrio. [p51- dupl-tei:ni-tza-liz] 71m2-23. teteitzaliztli =tla. roedura. [p51-dupl-tei:ni-tza-liz] 71m1-19. teteitzaliztli =tla. roedura. [p51-dupl-tei:ni-tza-liz] 55m-17. tlateteitza. he breaks something up. [p51-dupl-tei:ni-tza] FC. word.count: 9 * tza tepi:ni *** quicuatitipitza. she smashes her head. [p33-cua:itl-dupl-tepi:ni-tza] FC. quixtitipitza. . [p33-i:xtli-dupl-tepi:ni-tza] FC. word.count: 2 * tza ti:ni *** nacaztititza =nite=onitenacaztititz. atronar a otro con bozes o con gran ruido y estruendo. [p11-p52-nacaztli-dupl-ti:ni-tza] 71m2-11. nacaztititza =nite. atronar a otro con ruido. [p11-p52-nacaztli-dupl- ti:ni-tza] 55m-1. nacaztititza =nite. atronar a otro con algun estruendo o ruydo. [p11- p52-nacaztli-dupl-ti:ni-tza] 71m1-3. nacaztititza =no=ononacaztititzac. . [poss-nacaztli dupl-ti:ni-tza] 71m2-11. nacaztititzani =te. atronador tal. [p52-nacaztli-dupl-ti:ni-tza-ni1] 71m1-3. nacaztititztli =tla. atronado assi. [p51-nacaztli-dupl-ti:ni-tza-l2] 55m-1. nacaztititztli =tla. atronado assi. [p51-nacaztli-dupl-ti:ni-tza-l2] 71m1-3. nacaztititztli =tla. atronado, o atonito de algun trueno o estruendo grande. [p51-nacaztli-dupl-ti:ni-tza-l2] 71m2-22. tititza =nino=oninotititz. tener puxo de vientre. [p11-p54-dupl-ti:ni- tza] 71m2-12. tititza =nino=oninotititz. tener puxo o desperezarse y estirarse, bocezando. [p11-p54-dupl-ti:ni-tza] 71m2-19. tititza =nino. puxo tener. [p11-p54-dupl-ti:ni-tza] 71m1-18. tititza =no nacaz. atronarse me los oydos. [poss-nacaztli dupl-ti:ni- tza] 71m1-3. tititzaliztli =ne. puxo de vientre. [p53-dupl-ti:ni-tza-liz] 71m1-18. tititzaliztli =ne. puxo de vientre. [p53-dupl-ti:ni-tza-liz] 55m-16. tititzaliztli =ne. puxo de vientre. [p53-dupl-ti:ni-tza-liz] 71m2-12. word.count: 15 * tza tlapa:ni *** quitlatlapatza. they break it up. [p33-dupl-tlapa:ni-tza] FC. tlatlapatza =nitla=onitlatlatlapatz. despedazar, o quebrantar algo en muchas partes. [p11-p51-dupl-tlapa:ni-tza] 71m2-24. tlatlapatza =nitla. desmenuzar pan o cosa assi. [p11-p51-dupl-tlapa:ni- tza] 55m-5. tlatlapatza =nitla. desmenuzar pan o cosa semejante. [p11-p51-dupl- tlapa:ni-tza] 71m1-7. tlatlapatza =nitla. despedazar pan. [p11-p51-dupl-tlapa:ni-tza] 71m1- 8. tlatlapatza =nitla. hazerse pedazos alguna cosa. [p11-p51-dupl- tlapa:ni-tza] 71m1-12. tlatlapatzaliztli =tla. desmenuzamiento. [p51-dupl-tlapa:ni-tza-liz] 55m-5. tlatlapatzaliztli =tla. despedazamiento o desmenuzamiento de algo. [p51-dupl-tlapa:ni-tza-liz] 71m2-24. tlatlapatzaliztli =tla. desmenuzamiento tal. [p51-dupl-tlapa:ni-tza- liz] 71m1-7. tlatlapatzaloni. something which can be broken up. [dupl-tlapa:ni-tza- lo:1-ni1] FC. tlatlapatzani =tla. desmenuzador. [p51-dupl-tlapa:ni-tza-ni1] 71m1-7. tlatlapatztli =tla. cosa despedazada o desmenuzada. [p51-dupl-tlapa:ni- tza-l2] 71m2-24. tlatlapatztli =tla. desmenuzado. [p51-dupl-tlapa:ni-tza-l2] 55m-5. tlatlatlapatztli. desmenuzado assi. [p51-dupl-tlapa:ni-tza-l2] 71m1- 7. word.count: 14 * tza tlatzi:ni *** matlatlatza =nino=oninomatlatlatzac. dar palmadas de plazer. [p11-p54- ma:itl-dupl-tlatzi:ni-tza] 71m2-9. matlatlatza =nino. palmadas dar con las manos. [p11-p54-ma:itl-dupl- tlatzi:ni-tza] 71m1-16. motzictlatlatza. she clacks chicle. [p54-tzictli-dupl-tlatzi:ni-tza] FC. motzictlatlatza. they click chicle. [p54-tzictli-dupl-tlatzi:ni-tza +prob] FC. quitlatlatztzatinemi. she goes about snapping it [i.e., chewing gum]. [p33-dupl-tlatzi:ni-tza-ti1-nemi aux01] FC. word.count: 5 * tza topo:ni *** quitotopotz. he gnawed it. [p33-dupl-topo:ni-tza-prt1 +cord] FC. quitotopotza. it gnaws it. [p33-dupl-topo:ni-tza +cord] FC. quitototopotzaya. they toasted it. [p33-dupl-dupl-topo:ni-tza-ya3] FC. tla[i]xcaltotopochtli. biscuit. [p51-ixca-l1-dupl-topo:ni-tza-l2 +n>ch] FC. tla[i]xcaltotopochtli. toasted, dried tortilla. [p51-ixca-l1-dupl- topo:ni-tza-l2 +n>ch] FC. tla[i]xcaltotopochtli. toasted tortilla. [p51-ixca-l1-dupl-topo:ni-tza- l2 +n>ch] FC. tlatotopotza. he gnaws, he frays. [p51-dupl-topo:ni-tza +cord] FC. tlatotopotza. it gnaws. [p51-dupl-topo:ni-tza] FC. tlatotopotzani. gnawer. [p51-dupl-topo:ni-tza-ni1] FC. totopochhuatza =nitla. tostar. [p11-p51-dupl-topo:ni-l2-hua:qui-tza +n>ch] 71m1-20. totopochhuatza =nitla. tostar. [p11-p51-dupl-topo:ni-l2-hua:qui-tza +n>ch] 55m-19. totopochhuatzalli =tla. cosa muy tostada asi como reuanadas de pan, tortillas o cosa assi. [p51-dupl-topo:ni-l2-hua:qui-tza-l1 +n>ch] 71m2-24. totopochhuatzalli =tla. tostada cosa. [p51-dupl-topo:ni-l2-hua:qui-tza- l1 +n>ch] 71m1-20. totopochhuatzalli =tla. tostada cosa. [p51-dupl-topo:ni-l2-hua:qui-tza- l1 +n>ch] 55m-19. totopotza =nitla=onitlatotopotz. roer, o tostar algo. [p11-p51-dupl- topo:ni-tza] 71m2-26. totopotza =nitla. roer. [p11-p51-dupl-topo:ni-tza] 71m1-19. totopotza =nitla. roer. [p11-p51-dupl-topo:ni-tza] 55m-17. totopotzaliztli =tla. el acto de comer cosas muy tostadas, o bizcochadas, o de roer huessos. [p51-dupl-topo:ni-tza-liz] 71m2- 24. totopotzaliztli =tla. roedura. [p51-dupl-topo:ni-tza-liz] 71m1-19. totopotzaliztli =tla. roedura. [p51-dupl-topo:ni-tza-liz] 55m-17. totopotzani =tla. el que come cosas muy tostadas que cruxen entre los dientes. [p51-dupl-topo:ni-tza-ni1] 71m2-24. word.count: 22 * tza toto:ca *** ommotototza. . [o:n-p54-toto:ca-tza] FC. quintototza. they force them to go. [p43-toto:ca-tza] FC. quitototza. they push it forward. [p33-toto:ca-tza] FC. quitototzaya. they hurried him. [p33-toto:ca-tza-ya3] FC. quitototzaya. they pushed it forward. [p33-toto:ca-tza-ya3] FC. quitototztihuetzi. . [p33-toto:ca-tza-prt1-ti1-huetzi aux03] FC. quitototztiquiza. . [p33-toto:ca-tza-prt1-ti1-qui:za aux07] FC. tetototzalo. there is chasing of people. [p52-toto:ca-tza-lo:2] FC. tiquitototztihuetziz. . [p12-p33-toto:ca-tza-ti1-huetzi-z aux03] FC. totochilia =nech. doler en alguna parte del cuerpo. [p31-toto:ca-tza- ben +tz>ch .bbbb] 55m-6. totochilia =nech. doler en alguna parte del cuerpo. [p31-toto:ca-tza- ben +tz>ch .bbbb] 71m1-8. totochilia =nitetla=onitetlatotochili. acuciar, o dar priessa a otros. [p11-p52-p51-toto:ca-tza-ben +tz>ch +mis_analysis.4] 71m2-24. totochilia =nitetla=onitetlatotochili. dar mucha priessa a otros. [p11- p52-p51-toto:ca-tza-ben +tz>ch] 71m2-26. totochilia =nitetla. priesa dar, para que hagan mal a alguno. [p11-p52- p51-toto:ca-tza-ben +tz>ch +mis_analysis.4a] 71m1-17. totochilia =nitetla. priesa dar para que hagan mal a alguno. [p11-p52- p51-toto:ca-tza-ben +tz>ch +mis_analysis.4] 55m-16. totochilihqui =qui. doliente assi. [p33-toto:ca-tza-ben-prt1-c2 +tz>ch .bbbb] 55m-6. totochilihqui =qui. doliente assi. [p33-toto:ca-tza-ben-prt1-c2 +tz>ch .bbbb] 71m1-8. totochililiztli =te. dolencia assi. [p52-toto:ca-tza-ben-liz +tz>ch +no.haplo .bbbb] 55m-6. totochililiztli =te. dolencia tal. [p52-toto:ca-tza-ben-liz +tz>ch +no.haplo .bbbb] 71m1-8. totochililiztli =tetla. disfauor. [p52-p51-toto:ca-tza-ben-liz +tz>ch +no.haplo] 55m-6. totochiliztli =tetla. disfauor. [p52-p51-toto:ca-tza-ben=0-liz +tz>ch +haplo] 71m1-8. totochiliztli =tetla. priesa que se da a otro, o disfauor. [p52-p51- toto:ca-tza-ben=0-liz +tz>ch +haplo] 71m2-19. tototza =nic=onictototz. adelantar, o aguijar el relox. [p11-p33- toto:ca-tza] 71m2-26. tototza =nic. adelantar el relox que anda trasero y tardio. [p11-p33- toto:ca-tza] 71m1-1. tototza =nichual. ligeramente traer algo. [p11-p33-hua:l-toto:ca-tza +mis_analysis.1] 71m1-14. tototza =nichual. ligeramente traer algo. [p11-p33-hua:l-toto:ca-tza +mis_analysis.1] 55m-12. tototza =nite=onitetototz. aguijar y dar priessa al que camina, o empeorar el medico al enfermo. [p11-p52-toto:ca-tza] 71m2-26. tototza =nite. aguijar a otro. [p11-p52-toto:ca-tza] 55m-00. tototza =nite. aguijar a otro. [p11-p52-toto:ca-tza] 71m1-1. tototza =nite. correr hazer a otro. [p11-p52-toto:ca-tza] 55m-3. tototza =nite. correr hazer a otro. [p11-p52-toto:ca-tza] 71m1-5. tototza =nite. dar priesa. [p11-p52-toto:ca-tza] 71m1-6. tototza =nite. enconar la llaga o cosa semejante. [p11-p52-toto:ca- tza] 55m-7. tototza =nite. enconar la llaga o cosa semejante. [p11-p52-toto:ca- tza] 71m1-9. tototza =nite. priesa dar a alguno,paraque haga algo,o paraque de lo que le piden. [p11-p52-toto:ca-tza] 71m1-17. tototza =nite. priesa dar. [p11-p52-toto:ca-tza] 55m-16. tototza =nitla=onitlatototz. empeorar, o dar priessa a otra qualquier cosa. [p11-p51-toto:ca-tza] 71m2-26. tototza =nitla. acuciar o dar priessa. [p11-p51-toto:ca-tza] 71m1-1. tototza =nitla. empeorar. [p11-p51-toto:ca-tza] 55m-7. tototza =nitla. empeorar. [p11-p51-toto:ca-tza] 71m1-9. tototzaliztli =te. el acto de dar priessa a otros assi. [p52-toto:ca- tza-liz] 71m2-19. tototzaliztli =te. empeoramiento. [p52-toto:ca-tza-liz] 55m-7. tototzaliztli =te. empeoramiento. [p52-toto:ca-tza-liz] 71m1-9. tototzaliztli =te. enconamiento assi. [p52-toto:ca-tza-liz] 55m-7. tototzaliztli =te. enconamiento assi. [p52-toto:ca-tza-liz] 71m1-9. tototzaliztli =tetla. priesa que se da a otro, o disfauor o el acto de empeorar algo a otro. [p52-p51-toto:ca-tza-liz] 71m2-19. tototzaliztli =te. ynstancia priessa. [p52-toto:ca-tza-liz] 71m1-13. tototzaliztli =te. ynstancia priessa. [p52-toto:ca-tza-liz] 55m-12. tototzalli =tla. aguijada cosa. [p51-toto:ca-tza-l1] 55m-00. tototzalli =tla. aguijada cosa. [p51-toto:ca-tza-l1] 71m1-1. tototzalli =tla. al que dan priessa para que haga algo. [p51-toto:ca- tza-l1] 71m2-24. tototzalli =tla. enconada llaga. [p51-toto:ca-tza-l1] 55m-7. tototzalli =tla. enconada llaga. [p51-toto:ca-tza-l1] 71m1-9. tototzani =te. aguijador. [p52-toto:ca-tza-ni1] 55m-00. tototzani =te. aguijador. [p52-toto:ca-tza-ni1] 71m1-1. tototzani =te. solicitador, o el que aguija y da priessa aotros. [p52- toto:ca-tza-ni1] 71m2-19. tototztli =tla. aguijada cosa. [p51-toto:ca-tza-l2] 55m-00. tototztli =tla. aguijada cosa. [p51-toto:ca-tza-l2] 71m1-1. tototztli =tla. al que dan priessa para que haga algo. [p51-toto:ca- tza-l2] 71m2-24. tototztli =tla. empeorado. [p51-toto:ca-tza-l2] 55m-7. tototztli =tla. empeorado. [p51-toto:ca-tza-l2] 71m1-9. word.count: 62 * tza tzapi:ni *** cahuallotzatzapitzaliztli. espolada. [++cahuallo-dupl-tzapi:ni-tza-liz +spanish] 55m-9. cahuallotzatzapitzaliztli. espolada. [++cahuallo-dupl-tzapi:ni-tza-liz +spanish] 71m1-11. tepoztetzatzapitzaloni. aguijon de hierro o espuela. [tepoztli-p52- dupl-tzapi:ni-tza-lo:2-ni1] 55m-00. tepoztetzatzapitzaloni. aguijon de hierro o espuela. [tepoztli-p52- dupl-tzapi:ni-tza-lo:2-ni1] 71m1-1. tepoztetzatzapitzaloni. espuela, o aguijon. [tepoztli-p52-dupl- tzapi:ni-tza-lo:2-ni1] 71m2-18. tzatzapitza =nitla=onitlatzatzapitz. punzar, picar o dar de espoladas al cauallo. [p11-p51-dupl-tzapi:ni-tza] 71m2-26. tzatzapitza =nitla. espolear herir conella. [p11-p51-dupl-tzapi:ni- tza] 55m-9. tzatzapitza =nitla. espolear herir conella. [p11-p51-dupl-tzapi:ni- tza] 71m1-11. tzatzapitzaliztli =tla. espolada. [p51-dupl-tzapi:ni-tza-liz] 55m-9. tzatzapitzaliztli =tla. espoladas, punzadas o aguijones. [p51-dupl- tzapi:ni-tza-liz] 71m2-24. tzatzapitzaliztli =tla. espolada. [p51-dupl-tzapi:ni-tza-liz] 71m1- 11. word.count: 11 * tza tzicui:ni *** mo[i]ztacatzitzicuitz. it was spattered with white. [p54-iztatl-v01b- delya-ca:6-dupl-tzicui:ni-tza-prt1] FC. motexohtzitzicuitza. it is spattered with light blue. [p54-texohtli- dupl-tzicui:ni-tza] FC. motlapaltzitzicuitz. it was spattered with red color. [p54-p54-pa:3-l1- dupl-tzicui:ni-tza-prt1] FC. motlapaltzitzicuitza. it is spattered with color. [p54-p54-pa:3-l1- dupl-tzicui:ni-tza] FC. motzitzicuitz. it is spattered. [p54-dupl-tzicui:ni-tza-prt1] FC. motzitzicuitza. it is spattered. [p54-dupl-tzicui:ni-tza] FC. quimotzitzicuichilih. . [p33-p54-dupl-tzicui:ni-tza-ben-prt1] FC. quimotzitzicuichilih. it was spattered. [p33-p54-dupl-tzicui:ni-tza- ben-prt1 +tz>ch] FC. quitzitzicuitza. they spatter it. [p33-dupl-tzicui:ni-tza] FC. word.count: 11 * tza tzili:ni *** netlantzitzilitzalo. there is chattering of the teeth. [p53-tlantli- dupl-tzili:ni-tza-lo:2] FC. netlantzitzilitzalo. there is chattering of teeth. [p53-tlantli-dupl- tzili:ni-tza-lo:2] FC. quicuatzitzilitza. she bangs her head. [p33-cua:itl-dupl-tzili:ni-tza] FC. quitzitzilitza. she strikes it. [p33-dupl-tzili:ni-tza] FC. tlantzitzilitza =nino=oninotlantzitzilitz. dar tenzadas o cruxir los dientes de frio &c. [p11-p54-tlantli-dupl-tzili:ni-tza] 71m2-22. tlantzitzilitza =nino. cruxir los dientes de frio. [p11-p54-tlantli- dupl-tzili:ni-tza] 55m-4. tlantzitzilitza =nino. cruxir los dientes de frio. [p11-p54-tlantli- dupl-tzili:ni-tza] 71m1-6. tlantzitzilitza =nino. dar tenazadas de frio. [p11-p54-tlantli-dupl- tzili:ni-tza] 71m1-6. tlantzitzilitza =nino. temblar o cruxir los dientes. [p11-p54-tlantli- dupl-tzili:ni-tza] 71m1-20. tlantzitzilitzaliztli =ne. cruximiento assi. [p53-tlantli-dupl- tzili:ni-tza-liz] 55m-4. tlantzitzilitzaliztli =ne. ruydo de dientes rechinando. [p53-tlantli- dupl-tzili:ni-tza-liz] 71m1-19. tlantzitzilitzaliztli =ne. ruydo de dientes rechinando. [p53-tlantli- dupl-tzili:ni-tza-liz] 55m-17. tlantzitzilitzaliztli =ne. cruximiento de dientes, o tenazadas de dientes. [p53-tlantli-dupl-tzili:ni-tza-liz] 71m2-12. tlantzitzilitzaliztli =ne. cruximiento assi. [p53-tlantli-dupl- tzili:ni-tza-liz] 71m1-6. tzitzilitza =nitla=onitlatzitzilitz. repicar campanas. [p11-p51-dupl- tzili:ni-tza] 71m2-26. tzitzilitza =nitla. repicar campanas. [p11-p51-dupl-tzili:ni-tza] 71m1- 18. tzitzilitza =nitla. repicar con campana. [p11-p51-dupl-tzili:ni-tza] 55m-17. tzitzilitzaliztli =tla. repique de campanas. [p51-dupl-tzili:ni-tza- liz] 71m1-18. tzitzilitzaliztli =tla. repique assi. [p51-dupl-tzili:ni-tza-liz] 55m- 17. tzitzilitzaliztli =tla. repique de campana, o el acto de repicar campanas. [p51-dupl-tzili:ni-tza-liz] 71m2-24. tzitzilitzani =tla. repicador de campanas. [p51-dupl-tzili:ni-tza-ni1] 71m2-24. word.count: 21 * tza tzitzica *** tzitzitza =nitla=onitlatzitzitzitz. . [p11-p51-tzitzica-tza] 71m2-26. tzitzitza =nitla. embutir o recalcar. [p11-p51-tzitzica-tza] 55m-7. tzitzitza =nitla. embutir o recalar. [p11-p51-tzitzica-tza] 71m1-9. tzitzitztli =tla. cosa recalcada, apretada y tupida. [p51-tzitzica-tza- l2] 71m2-24. tzitzitztli =tla. embutido. [p51-tzitzica-tza-l2] 55m-7. tzitzitztli =tla. embutido. [p51-tzitzica-tza-l2] 71m1-9. word.count: 6 * tza tzomo:ni *** quitetetzomotza. . [tzomo:ni-tza +bakf] FC. quitzomotza. they break it. [p33-tzomo:ni-tza +bakf] FC. tetlatetetzomochilia. . [tzomo:ni-tza-ben +bakf] FC. word.count: 3 * tza tzopi:ni *** tetzotzopitza. they stab people. [p52-dupl-tzopi:ni-tza] FC. tetzotzopitzalo. there is repeated spearing of people. [p52-dupl- tzopi:ni-tza-lo:2] FC. tlatzotzopitza. he provides holes (i.e., for plants). [p51-dupl- tzopi:ni-tza] FC. word.count: 3 * tza tzopo:ni *** motentzotzopotzaz. its lips will be perforated. [p54-te:ntli-dupl- tzopo:ni-tza-z] FC. motzotzopotza. it is pricked repeatedly. [p54-dupl-tzopo:ni-tza] FC. tetzotzopotza. it pricks people. [p52-dupl-tzopo:ni-tza] FC. tlatzotzopotza. he provides holes (i.e., for plants). [p51-dupl- tzopo:ni-tza] FC. tlatzotzopotztinemi. . [p51-dupl-tzopo:ni-tza-prt1-ti1-nemi aux01] FC. tlatzotzopotztinemi. they go along stabbing. [p51-dupl-tzopo:ni-tza- prt1-ti1-nemi aux01] FC. word.count: 7 * tza xahua:ni *** tlaxaxahuatza. it ejects. [p51-dupl-xahua:ni-tza] FC. xaxahuatza =nitla. ruido hazer el agua o los meados del cauallo quando mea, o cosa assi. [p11-p51-dupl-xahua:ni-tza] 55m-17. xaxahuatza =nitla. ruydo hazer el agua o los meados del cauallo^quando mea o cosa assi. [p11-p51-dupl-xahua:ni-tza] 71m1-19. word.count: 3 * tza xama:ni *** nicxaxamatza. I make it crunch. [p11-p33-dupl-xama:ni-tza] FC. quinxaxamatztihuia. they went crushing them to pieces. [p43-dupl- xama:ni-tza-prt1-ti1-yauh2-ya3 aux14b] FC. teihtixaxamatz. it shattered one's stomach. [p52-ihtitl-dupl-xama:ni- tza-prt1] FC. teihtixaxamatza. it shatters one's stomach. [p52-ihtitl-dupl-xama:ni- tza] FC. texaxamatza. she crushes people. [p52-dupl-xama:ni-tza] FC. texaxamatzaz. (may) he disunite people. [p52-dupl-xama:ni-tza-z] FC. tlaxaxamatza. he breaks something up. [p51-dupl-xama:ni-tza] FC. tlaxaxamatztihuetzi. it falls shattered to pieces. [p51-xama:ni-tza- prt1-ti1-huetzi aux03] FC. xaxamatza =nite=onitexaxamatz. hazer pedazos alos enemigos, haziendo gran estrago enellos. [p11-p52-dupl-xama:ni-tza] 71m2-27. xontexaxamatza. scatter people!. [p6-o:n-p52-dupl-xama:ni-tza] FC. word.count: 10 * tza zolo:ni *** quizolotza. he sucks it in. [p33-zolo:ni-tza +bakf] FC. zolotza =nitla=onitlazolotz. soruer algo. [p11-p51-zolo:ni-tza +bakf] 71m2-4. zolotza =nitla. soruer. [p11-p51-zolo:ni-tza +bakf] 71m1-19. zolotza =nitla. soruer. [p11-p51-zolo:ni-tza +bakf] 55m-18. zozolotza =nitla=onitlazozolotz. hazer ruido el chorro de agua que cae sobre otra agua. [p11-p51-dupl-zolo:ni-tza] 71m2-4. zozolotza =nitla. ruydo hazer el agua o los meados del cauallo^quando mea o cosa assi. [p11-p51-dupl-zolo:ni-tza] 71m1-19. word.count: 6 Quoting "John Sullivan, Ph.D." : > Piyali listeros, > Ce tlahtlaniliztli. I have a question about sets of words like: > tlapa:ni, "to split"; tlapa:na, "to split s.t."; tlatlapaca, "to > split into many pieces", tlatlapatza, "to split s.t. into many > pieces". I understand that tlapa:na is a causative derivation of > tlapa:ni. And the grammars say that tlatlapaca is a reduplicated > form of tlapa:ni, and that tlatlapatza is a reduplicated form of > tlapa:na. What I want to know is if tlatlapatza could also be > considered a causative derivation of tlatlapaca. After all, we do > have hua:qui, "to dry" and its causative derivation hua:tza, "to dry > s.t."; popo:ca, "to smoke" / popo:tza, "to smoke s.t."; ti:tica, "to > throb (a wound) / ti:titza, "to strain while making an effort", none > of which have underlying thematic verbs forms in -ni or -hui. And I > think all verbs ending in - tza are transitive (pi:tza, po:tza). > John > > John Sullivan, Ph.D. > Professor of Nahua language and culture > Universidad Aut?noma de Zacatecas > Zacatecas Institute of Teaching and Research in Ethnology > Tacuba 152, int. 43 > Centro Hist?rico > Zacatecas, Zac. 98000 > Mexico > Work: +52 (492) 925-3415 > Fax: +1 (858) 724-3030 (U.S.A.) > Home: +52 (492) 768-6048 > Mobile: +52 1 (492) 103-0195 > idiez at me.com > www.macehualli.org > > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From brokaw at buffalo.edu Mon Nov 30 20:19:31 2009 From: brokaw at buffalo.edu (Galen Brokaw) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 15:19:31 -0500 Subject: nouns and verbs in Nahuatl In-Reply-To: <20091120213018.lmpy3a2tnos4wgs8@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: > Regarding #2, I'd like to get around to discussing your "(just as > 'real' nouns do)" sometime. Are there real nouns in Nahuatl? I'm > reminded of Father Baraga's statement in his _The Theoretical and > Practical Grammar of the Otchipwe Language": > > "In closing let it be allowed that the Indian language is perfect in > its own way, and has many beauties not to be found in our modern > languages; for instance, the verb in the Indian idiom, is the supreme > chief of the language; it draws into its magical circle all the other > parts of speech, and makes them act, move, suffer, and even exist in > the manner, and in such situations as is pleasing to it. In truth a > learned philologist likened the verb of the Indian language to Atlas > that carries the world on its shoulders. If a language can be compared > to a world, this comparison appears to us very just; for the verb can > carry it entirely in its bosom." > > Blair Rudes, the late Iroquoianist, once told me that there was a > Iroquoian language (Tuscarora, I believe, but I can't remember) that > had only around 7 bona fide nouns; everything else that we would > consider nouns were actually verbs. > > Nahuatl seems to have this same characteristic. I think Andrews talks > about this somewhere, but I don't know where. But when we say, for > example, > 'cuauhtli' (cua:uhtli) 'eagle', what we are dealing with here is a verb > phrase meaning 'it is an/the eagle'. > Hi Michael, Sorry for the delayed response. I just wanted to comment briefly on this issue of verbs versus nouns in Nahuatl. I don't know where Andrews says this, but his grammar makes a very clear distinction between nouns and verbs. A number of times I've heard repeated this idea that in Nahuatl nouns are actually verbs or something to that effect. I don't know about Tuscarora, but I think that in the case of Nahuatl, this is a misconception based on a failure to distinguish between formal grammar and pragmatics. Although it is true that the expression "cuauhtli" can mean "it is an eagle" or "there is an eagle," this doesn't mean that it is a verb. Nouns in English can do exactly the same thing. If someone yells "bomb!," everyone interprets that as meaning "there is a bomb" or "it is a bomb." But this doesn't mean that "bomb" is a verb. It is important here to draw a distinction between formal categories of grammar and pragmatics. From a formal perspective, "cuauhtli" is a real noun, because it behaves like other nouns and not like verbs in Nahuatl. >>From a pragmatic perspective, it can convey the the idea that is formally articulated as "it is an eagle" or "there is an eagle," but it does not do so through its form. The fact that the pragmatic use of an isolated word can convey a broader meaning that can be formally articulated using a complete sentence says nothing about the formal category of that word, which is determined strictly on the basis of its formal properties. Galen _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From karttu at nantucket.net Mon Nov 30 21:01:05 2009 From: karttu at nantucket.net (Frances Karttunen) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 16:01:05 -0500 Subject: Nuns and verbs Message-ID: I would say that nouns in Nahuatl are those entities that take engage with nominal morphology and verbs are the ones that engage with verbal morphology. There's probably a bit of overlap. Andrews makes his every-word-a-sentence claim by resorting to "zero- morphemes" and not just a little bit but by a great whopping lot. There are plenty of what Carochi called "adverbs" in Nahuatl, with all sorts of functions other than verbal or nominal. On the other hand, I am fairly convinced that in older Nahuatl there was no distinct grammatical category of adjective. That probably changed through contact with Spanish. Not that there has been obvious introduction of agreement between modifier and modified, but some deverbal forms now seem to act like predicate adjectives in a way they didn't originally. Fran _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl