Tloc, nahuac, tech, tlan

[David Wright]

Thanks, Michael. I see Molina (1571: II, 42r) gives "Ipeuhcan en el
comienzo, o en el principio, o al principio". That looks like i:peuhca:n
/i:pewka:n/ (i: + (pewa - a) + ka:n), 3rd person singular possessive prefix
+ verb: begin + postposition (?) where/in/in the time of/place of/by. So I
guess I can call ca:n a postposition, based on the criteria of it appearing
with a possessive prefix (and a verb!), although the example is not as clear
as if we had a direct coupling of the prefix with ca:n. It is what it is, of
course; the problem is fitting it into a somewhat arbitrary (but useful)
classification scheme.

-----Mensaje original-----
De: Michael McCafferty [mailto:mmccaffe at indiana.edu] 
Enviado el: jueves, 12 de noviembre de 2009 07:05 p.m.
Para: David Wright
CC: 'Campbell, R. Joe'; nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
Asunto: Re: [Nahuat-l] Tloc, nahuac, tech, tlan

Quoting David Wright <dcwright at prodigy.net.mx>:

> Thanks for the distributional map, Joe. I just checked it against my table
> of postpositions and locative suffixes (Lectura del Nahuatl, pp. 87-94,
> currently in the process of expansion and revision for a second edition).
In
> this table I use as the main criterion for classification your fourth
> column, that is whether or not these morphemes are found attached to a
> possessive prefix (if they are, they are classified as postpositions; if
> not, they are called locative suffixes). Most of the data are in harmony,
> except in two cases:
>
> 1. You list -can (which I assume to be /ca:n/) as taking a possessive
> prefix. I haven't found any examples of this, although I admit I haven't
> searched very hard. If I see examples, I'll have to move this morpheme
from
> my list of locative suffixes to the "postposition" category. Can you give
me
> a couple of examples, preferably with references to early colonial
sources?
> (Modern sources won't do, because I'm focusing on central Mexican Nahuatl
> from 1521 to 1650.) I suppose your magic Nahuatl machine can make quick
work
> of this.

David:

I don't recall seeing /ca:n/ in, say, a simple possessed form such as 
*tocan but it does appear in *possessed* forms, e.g., ipeuhcan, 
itzinehcan, etc. Perhaps that is what Joe is getting at when he says 
"possessed".



>
> 2. You include -ican, which I don't have on my table in either category.
The
> "x" in the fourth column means that it would be a postposition as I've
> defined this word. I just checked a stack of descriptive sources (Carochi,
> Lockhart, Andrews, Launey, Wolf, Karttunen, and Molina's Arte) and
couldn't
> find this postposition, unless it's something one would see inside of
> -i:campa, "behind/beyond," after removing the locative suffix -pa. I would
> like to add this morpheme to the table, but to do so I would have to know
> where it is found, what it means and if it has any long vowels. Can you
give
> me a hand with this?

I would agree that this is -i:can-pa.


Michael




>
> David
>
> -----Mensaje original-----
> De: Campbell, R. Joe [mailto:campbel at indiana.edu]
> Enviado el: jueves, 12 de noviembre de 2009 03:36 p.m.
> Para: Michael McCafferty
> CC: David Wright; nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> Asunto: Re: [Nahuat-l] Tloc, nahuac, tech, tlan
>
> Nocnihuan,
>
>   The things we call "postpositions" or "relational nouns" obviously
> don't all follow the same distributional map, so I have put a rough one
> together.  "Rough" means that I consider just a draft, so I won't mind
> having mistakes drawn to my attention.
>
>   I include -nahuac in the list in spite of the fact that I know that
> it is really a noun with attached -c(o).
>
>   Category 5 (occurs after a noun) has a neutral label in order to
> avoid calling fish or fowl (i.e., noun compound or noun suffix).
>
>   Obviously, these categories hint strongly at the noun-like behavior
> of these objects of our attention, which goes in the opposite direction
> from their frequent spatial and temporal function in the language.
>
> As Arnie said, "I'll be back."
>
> Joe
>
>  "postpositions"
>
> 1   takes a "verber" suffix
> 2   embeds in -yo(tl)
> 3   takes absolutive
> 4   takes a possessive prefix
> 5   occurs after a noun
> 6   embeds in -eh (e.g., tloqueh) [not included yet in the chart]
>
>           x = yes
>
>        1       2       3       4       5
>
> can             x       x       x       x
>
> co              x                       x
>
> huan    x                       x
>
> huic    x                       x       x
>
> ican    x                       x
>
> nahuac  x       x       x       x       x
>
> pa              x                       ?
>
> pan     x       x       x       x       x
>
> pampa   x       x               x
>
> tech    x       x       x       x       x
>
> tlan    x       x       x       x       x
>
> tloc    x                       x
>
> tzalan  x       x       x       x       x
>
>
>
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>



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