dancing

[Michael McCafferty]

Quoting Susana Moraleda <susana at losrancheros.org>:

> Niltze listeros,
>
> I am completely confused with the terms for "to dance", "dance", "dancer".
> I understand it is a transitive AND reflexive verb, but....

Bueno. No es un problema grande, Susana.

First of all, note that in Spanish, Italian, French, English... that 
transitive verbs can be reflexive verbs. That's the nature of things 
grammatical:

I see you.
I see myself.

Nahuatl can perform in the same way.

Nimitzcaqui " hear you, I listen to you"
Ninocaqui  "I hear myself, I listen to myself"


>
> TO DANCE
> IHTOTIA,

Now, in Spanish, Italian, French, English, the verb meaning "dance" is 
intransitive and thus requires a preposition to complete the action:

I dance with you.
I dance with myself...or I dance by myself.

But, in Nahuatl, the verb meaning "dance" is transitive, and thus also 
can be reflexive.

Nimitzihtotia "I dance with you,"literally "I dance you"
Ninihtohtia   "I dance" literally "I dance myself"

(actually these forms are nimitzihto:tia: and ninihto:htia:...but for 
now we'll leave the long vowel markings to those, including myself :-), 
who are concerned with such things.)



>    I dance (alone) = NINECHIHTOTIA (transitive)? or NINOIHTOTIA (reflexive)?
>

Not the first one because -nech- is not a reflexive pronoun; it's an 
object pronoun for a transitive verb. (-)no-/(-)mo- are the reflexive 
pronouns.

Yes, the second is pretty close but the -o- of the reflexive pronoun 
can be "unstable" depending on the nature of the verb that follows, and 
in the case of the verb "dance" drops in favor of the -i- of -ihtotia. 
So, you get
"ninihtotia," which translates "I am dancing, I dance"


> DANCE
> I have found IHTOTILIZTLI, MIHTOHTLI and NETOTILIZTLI. What are the
> sources for the last two? why starting with M? is that the reflexive
> version? and why does the last one start with NE? Which one is
> grammatically correct?

Netotiliztli is the correct form for the deverbal noun meaning 
"dancing," i.e., "the act of dancing". (-)ne- is an "impersonal" 
reflexive pronoun used when forming "impersonal" forms such as -liztli 
"nounings" and non-active impersonal forms such as necaco 'people hear 
themselves', nezahualo 'there is fasting" (i.e., people are fasting 
themselves), onequetzaloc 'people stood up'.

I don't know about "IHTOTILIZTLI". It sounds strange and ungrammatical. 
Seems to be missing the front end.

However, "MIHTOHTLI" sounds o.k. for a noun meaning 'a dance' or 'the 
dance' premised on the personal reflexive pronoun (-)mo-.


>
> DANCER
> I found MIHTOTIANI, MIHTOTIHQUI and MOHTOTIHQUI. Why not something
> without the M? again because of its reflexive nature? Why not
> IHTOTIANI?

All of these sound fine, and you have answered your own question, I would say.

Best,

Michael





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