From magnuspharao at gmail.com  Tue Jun  1 19:11:08 2010
From: magnuspharao at gmail.com (Magnus Pharao Hansen)
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2010 21:11:08 +0200
Subject: Nahuatl Digest, Vol 179, Issue 1
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2.1275411601.11617.nahuatl@lists.famsi.org>
Message-ID: <TUE.1.JUN.2010.211108.0200.MAGNUSPHARAO@GMAIL.COM>

Dear Dr. Bassett

Mesoamerican languages do not generally have a distinction between blue and
green as the one found in european languages - this is also true for Nahuatl
- and matlalin could probably describe any dark hue in the blue/green end of
the specter. An excellent source to color references in Nahuatl and other
Mesoamerican langauges is Robert E MacLaury's Cdolor and COgnition in
Mesoamerica, therw you will be able to see schematic representations of the
basic color categories of several modern dialects of Nahuatl - most of which
have a single basic category  covering both green and blue colors.

Best regards

Magnus Pharao Hansen

On 1 June 2010 19:00, <nahuatl-request at lists.famsi.org> wrote:

> Send Nahuatl mailing list submissions to
>        nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>        http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>        nahuatl-request at lists.famsi.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>        nahuatl-owner at lists.famsi.org
>
> When replying, please change the Subject line of your email to match
> the exact topic being discussed, and delete all but the most important
> text from previous messages.
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. matlalin - blue, green, blue-green? (Molly Bassett)
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Molly Bassett <mbassett at gsu.edu>
> To: "Nahuat-l (messages)" <nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>
> Date: Mon, 31 May 2010 14:01:04 -0400
> Subject: [Nahuat-l] matlalin - blue, green, blue-green?
> Hi, all.
>
> I'm working on a piece dealing with the significance of colors in
> precontact Central Mexican religious contexts, and I have a question about
> the meaning of ma:tla:lin.
>
> Frances Karttunen follows Molina in defining matlalin as “the color dark
> green”:  “This is attested in Z in matlalzahuatl (literally ‘green pox’) and
> possibly in Matlalpan, although the sense of the latter would be obcure from
> this gloss, which appears to have something to do with lowness of sature.
> Conceivably it is derived instead from tlalpan ‘on the ground'" (139).
>
> But Dibble & Anderson translate matlalin as “blue” in the *Florentine*,
> which notes that "its name comes from nowhere.  It is the blossom of an
> herb, a blossom.  This matlalin is blue and a little herb-green.  It is very
> sound, firm, good, of good appearance, fresh green.  It is fresh green, very
> resh green. . . . / acan quizqui in itoca, xihuitl ixochyo, xochitl: inin
> matlali texotic, ihuan achi quiltic, cenca ixtlapalhui, ixchicactic, cualli,
> cualnezqui, celic, celic, celpatic. . . ." (11: 240).
>
> The Badianus Ms. cites matlalxochitl (presumably the xochitl referred to in
> the Florentine?) as an element in a treatment for "heat" in the eyes (pl.
> 14, p. 218).  The footnote for matlalxochitl glosses the term as "blue
> flower" identifies the plant as "the dayflower, Commelina, of which a number
> of species are found on the Mexican plateau.  A native variant Nahuatl name
> for it is matlaliztic.  Hernández refers to several varieties of
> matlalxochitl (pp. 383-4), but none of the illustrations resembles
> Commelina; thus the name must have been applied to several flowers of blue
> color" (219-20).
>
> So, two of these three sources relate matlalin to blue; I haven't followed
> up on Hernández yet.  Are there other places I should look for more
> information on matlalin as blue or green?  I realize that blue-green
> functioned as a range or spectrum in precontact Mesoamerica, but the
> discrepancy among these sources has piqued my curiosity.
>
> Thanks,
> Molly
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Molly H. Bassett
> Assistant Professor, Mesoamerican Religions and Indigenous Traditions
> Department of Religious Studies
> Georgia State University
> 1137 34 Peachtree Street NW
> Atlanta, GA 30302
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/nahuat-l/attachments/20100601/514ac87b/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl

From vazquezdiaz at aol.com  Tue Jun  1 19:25:35 2010
From: vazquezdiaz at aol.com (vazquezdiaz at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2010 15:25:35 -0400
Subject: Nahuatl Digest, Vol 179, Issue 1
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3.1275411601.11617.nahuatl@lists.famsi.org>
Message-ID: <TUE.1.JUN.2010.152535.0400.>


 

 


 Please help me out with the meaning of the word  TLALCOSAHUA



 

-----Original Message-----
From: nahuatl-request at lists.famsi.org
To: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
Sent: Tue, Jun 1, 2010 10:00 am
Subject: Nahuatl Digest, Vol 179, Issue 1


Send Nahuatl mailing list submissions to
    nahuatl at lists.famsi.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
    http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
    nahuatl-request at lists.famsi.org

You can reach the person managing the list at
    nahuatl-owner at lists.famsi.org

When replying, please change the Subject line of your email to match
the exact topic being discussed, and delete all but the most important
text from previous messages.


Today's Topics:

   1. matlalin - blue, green, blue-green? (Molly Bassett)


--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 31 May 2010 14:01:04 -0400
From: Molly Bassett <mbassett at gsu.edu>
Subject: [Nahuat-l] matlalin - blue, green, blue-green?
To: "Nahuat-l (messages)" <nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>
Message-ID: <E5EA57AC-5330-4020-B31D-B057AE08E470 at gsu.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"

Hi, all.

I'm working on a piece dealing with the significance of colors in  
precontact Central Mexican religious contexts, and I have a question  
about the meaning of ma:tla:lin.

Frances Karttunen follows Molina in defining matlalin as ?the color  
dark green?:  ?This is attested in Z in matlalzahuatl (literally  
?green pox?) and possibly in Matlalpan, although the sense of the  
latter would be obcure from this gloss, which appears to have  
something to do with lowness of sature.  Conceivably it is derived  
instead from tlalpan ?on the ground'" (139).

But Dibble & Anderson translate matlalin as ?blue? in the Florentine,  
which notes that "its name comes from nowhere.  It is the blossom of  
an herb, a blossom.  This matlalin is blue and a little herb-green.   
It is very sound, firm, good, of good appearance, fresh green.  It is  
fresh green, very resh green. . . . / acan quizqui in itoca, xihuitl  
ixochyo, xochitl: inin matlali texotic, ihuan achi quiltic, cenca  
ixtlapalhui, ixchicactic, cualli, cualnezqui, celic, celic,  
celpatic. . . ." (11: 240).

The Badianus Ms. cites matlalxochitl (presumably the xochitl referred  
to in the Florentine?) as an element in a treatment for "heat" in the  
eyes (pl. 14, p. 218).  The footnote for matlalxochitl glosses the  
term as "blue flower" identifies the plant as "the dayflower,  
Commelina, of which a number of species are found on the Mexican  
plateau.  A native variant Nahuatl name for it is matlaliztic.   
Hern?ndez refers to several varieties of matlalxochitl (pp. 383-4),  
but none of the illustrations resembles Commelina; thus the name must  
have been applied to several flowers of blue color" (219-20).

So, two of these three sources relate matlalin to blue; I haven't  
followed up on Hern?ndez yet.  Are there other places I should look  
for more information on matlalin as blue or green?  I realize that  
blue-green functioned as a range or spectrum in precontact  
Mesoamerica, but the discrepancy among these sources has piqued my  
curiosity.

Thanks,
Molly

----------------------------------------------------------
Molly H. Bassett
Assistant Professor, Mesoamerican Religions and Indigenous Traditions
Department of Religious Studies
Georgia State University
1137 34 Peachtree Street NW
Atlanta, GA 30302

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.famsi.org/pipermail/nahuatl/attachments/20100531/0371f210/attachment-0001.htm 


--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**

_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


End of Nahuatl Digest, Vol 179, Issue 1
***************************************

 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/nahuat-l/attachments/20100601/3de67a02/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl

From mmccaffe at indiana.edu  Tue Jun  1 20:10:41 2010
From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty)
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2010 16:10:41 -0400
Subject: Nahuatl Digest, Vol 179, Issue 1
In-Reply-To: <28420_1275422101_o51JswxL000944_8CCCFD758436403-2054-170F@webmail-d043.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.1.JUN.2010.161041.0400.MMCCAFFE@INDIANA.EDU>

Quoting vazquezdiaz at aol.com:

>
>
>
>
>
>
> Please help me out with the meaning of the word  TLALCOSAHUA
>
>


Sounds like 'earth-ferret-haver'

tla:l-co:zah-huah

someone who has/owns an 'earth-ferret'...whatever that is. :-)

Michael


>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nahuatl-request at lists.famsi.org
> To: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> Sent: Tue, Jun 1, 2010 10:00 am
> Subject: Nahuatl Digest, Vol 179, Issue 1
>
>
> Send Nahuatl mailing list submissions to
>    nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>    http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>    nahuatl-request at lists.famsi.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>    nahuatl-owner at lists.famsi.org
>
> When replying, please change the Subject line of your email to match
> the exact topic being discussed, and delete all but the most important
> text from previous messages.
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. matlalin - blue, green, blue-green? (Molly Bassett)
>
>
> --**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 31 May 2010 14:01:04 -0400
> From: Molly Bassett <mbassett at gsu.edu>
> Subject: [Nahuat-l] matlalin - blue, green, blue-green?
> To: "Nahuat-l (messages)" <nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>
> Message-ID: <E5EA57AC-5330-4020-B31D-B057AE08E470 at gsu.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>
> Hi, all.
>
> I'm working on a piece dealing with the significance of colors in
> precontact Central Mexican religious contexts, and I have a question
> about the meaning of ma:tla:lin.
>
> Frances Karttunen follows Molina in defining matlalin as ?the color
> dark green?:  ?This is attested in Z in matlalzahuatl (literally
> ?green pox?) and possibly in Matlalpan, although the sense of the
> latter would be obcure from this gloss, which appears to have
> something to do with lowness of sature.  Conceivably it is derived
> instead from tlalpan ?on the ground'" (139).
>
> But Dibble & Anderson translate matlalin as ?blue? in the Florentine,
> which notes that "its name comes from nowhere.  It is the blossom of
> an herb, a blossom.  This matlalin is blue and a little herb-green.
> It is very sound, firm, good, of good appearance, fresh green.  It is
> fresh green, very resh green. . . . / acan quizqui in itoca, xihuitl
> ixochyo, xochitl: inin matlali texotic, ihuan achi quiltic, cenca
> ixtlapalhui, ixchicactic, cualli, cualnezqui, celic, celic,
> celpatic. . . ." (11: 240).
>
> The Badianus Ms. cites matlalxochitl (presumably the xochitl referred
> to in the Florentine?) as an element in a treatment for "heat" in the
> eyes (pl. 14, p. 218).  The footnote for matlalxochitl glosses the
> term as "blue flower" identifies the plant as "the dayflower,
> Commelina, of which a number of species are found on the Mexican
> plateau.  A native variant Nahuatl name for it is matlaliztic.
> Hern?ndez refers to several varieties of matlalxochitl (pp. 383-4),
> but none of the illustrations resembles Commelina; thus the name must
> have been applied to several flowers of blue color" (219-20).
>
> So, two of these three sources relate matlalin to blue; I haven't
> followed up on Hern?ndez yet.  Are there other places I should look
> for more information on matlalin as blue or green?  I realize that
> blue-green functioned as a range or spectrum in precontact
> Mesoamerica, but the discrepancy among these sources has piqued my
> curiosity.
>
> Thanks,
> Molly
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Molly H. Bassett
> Assistant Professor, Mesoamerican Religions and Indigenous Traditions
> Department of Religious Studies
> Georgia State University
> 1137 34 Peachtree Street NW
> Atlanta, GA 30302
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:
> http://www.famsi.org/pipermail/nahuatl/attachments/20100531/0371f210/attachment-0001.htm
>
>
> --**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>
>
> End of Nahuatl Digest, Vol 179, Issue 1
> ***************************************
>
>
>



_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From b.leeming at rivers.org  Wed Jun  2 00:50:14 2010
From: b.leeming at rivers.org (Leeming, Ben)
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2010 20:50:14 -0400
Subject: Nahuatl Digest, Vol 179, Issue 1
In-Reply-To: <20100601161041.hdtnc2eescsswswk@webmail.iu.edu>
Message-ID: <TUE.1.JUN.2010.205014.0400.B.LEEMING@RIVERS.ORG>

A couple of ideas from the New England contingent:

I definitely agree that "sa" is really "za".  Initially I was thinking "zahua" as in "to fast"...but then the "tlalco" doesn't quite work.  I started working with Michael's "-huah" (preterit agentive noun of possession suffix) and then may have hit on something.  What if that "coz" or even "coza" has to do with "yellow", and "tlalcozahua" is something like "owner of yellow earth"?  But there's that "a" after "coz"...

There's also the "coz" of "co:ztli" (necklace).  The original post's author didn't indicate vowel length so this might be possible.  But then there's that "a" of "coza" again...  I did find "cozahuiya" (to turn yellow).  Could this shorten to give us "coza"?

How about this?  Karttunen has an entry for "cozehua" which she defines as "to make something turn yellow" (which supports my "coztic" theory).  Perhaps "tlalcozahua" is really "tlalcozehua" and means "to make (the) earth turn yellow".

I guess I would ask the original post's author for some context.  What is the source? Can you give us some more of the passage?  Is there any hint at vowel length?

What do others think?

Ben

Ben Leeming
Chair, History Department
The Rivers School
Weston, MA 02493
(781) 235-9300




On 6/1/10 4:10 PM, "Michael McCafferty" <mmccaffe at indiana.edu> wrote:

Quoting vazquezdiaz at aol.com:

>
>
>
>
>
>
> Please help me out with the meaning of the word  TLALCOSAHUA
>
>


Sounds like 'earth-ferret-haver'

tla:l-co:zah-huah

someone who has/owns an 'earth-ferret'...whatever that is. :-)

Michael




________________________________
Sample disclaimer text
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/nahuat-l/attachments/20100601/9420c9cc/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl

From mmccaffe at indiana.edu  Wed Jun  2 01:00:46 2010
From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty)
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2010 21:00:46 -0400
Subject: Nahuatl Digest, Vol 179, Issue 1
In-Reply-To: <C82B2306.45DE%b.leeming@rivers.org>
Message-ID: <TUE.1.JUN.2010.210046.0400.MMCCAFFE@INDIANA.EDU>

la localidad de Tlalcosahua está situado en el Municipio de Huejúcar 
(en el Estado de Jalisco).

de PueblosAmerica.com


uoting "Leeming, Ben" <b.leeming at rivers.org>:

> A couple of ideas from the New England contingent:
>
> I definitely agree that "sa" is really "za".  Initially I was
> thinking "zahua" as in "to fast"...but then the "tlalco" doesn't
> quite work.  I started working with Michael's "-huah" (preterit
> agentive noun of possession suffix) and then may have hit on
> something.  What if that "coz" or even "coza" has to do with
> "yellow", and "tlalcozahua" is something like "owner of yellow
> earth"?  But there's that "a" after "coz"...
>
> There's also the "coz" of "co:ztli" (necklace).  The original post's
> author didn't indicate vowel length so this might be possible.  But
> then there's that "a" of "coza" again...  I did find "cozahuiya" (to
> turn yellow).  Could this shorten to give us "coza"?
>
> How about this?  Karttunen has an entry for "cozehua" which she
> defines as "to make something turn yellow" (which supports my
> "coztic" theory).  Perhaps "tlalcozahua" is really "tlalcozehua" and
> means "to make (the) earth turn yellow".
>
> I guess I would ask the original post's author for some context.
> What is the source? Can you give us some more of the passage?  Is
> there any hint at vowel length?
>
> What do others think?
>
> Ben
>
> Ben Leeming
> Chair, History Department
> The Rivers School
> Weston, MA 02493
> (781) 235-9300
>
>
>
>
> On 6/1/10 4:10 PM, "Michael McCafferty" <mmccaffe at indiana.edu> wrote:
>
> Quoting vazquezdiaz at aol.com:
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Please help me out with the meaning of the word  TLALCOSAHUA
>>
>>
>
>
> Sounds like 'earth-ferret-haver'
>
> tla:l-co:zah-huah
>
> someone who has/owns an 'earth-ferret'...whatever that is. :-)
>
> Michael
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> Sample disclaimer text
>




_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From b.leeming at rivers.org  Wed Jun  2 01:23:56 2010
From: b.leeming at rivers.org (Leeming, Ben)
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2010 21:23:56 -0400
Subject: Nahuatl Digest, Vol 179, Issue 1
In-Reply-To: <20100601210046.1u67xfypkwk0gw8o@webmail.iu.edu>
Message-ID: <TUE.1.JUN.2010.212356.0400.B.LEEMING@RIVERS.ORG>

Ok. But what does Tlalcosahua mean?

I'm curious to hear John Sullivan's two cents.  John?

Ben


On 6/1/10 9:00 PM, "Michael McCafferty" <mmccaffe at indiana.edu> wrote:

la localidad de Tlalcosahua está situado en el Municipio de Huejúcar
(en el Estado de Jalisco).

de PueblosAmerica.com


uoting "Leeming, Ben" <b.leeming at rivers.org>:

> A couple of ideas from the New England contingent:
>
> I definitely agree that "sa" is really "za".  Initially I was
> thinking "zahua" as in "to fast"...but then the "tlalco" doesn't
> quite work.  I started working with Michael's "-huah" (preterit
> agentive noun of possession suffix) and then may have hit on
> something.  What if that "coz" or even "coza" has to do with
> "yellow", and "tlalcozahua" is something like "owner of yellow
> earth"?  But there's that "a" after "coz"...
>
> There's also the "coz" of "co:ztli" (necklace).  The original post's
> author didn't indicate vowel length so this might be possible.  But
> then there's that "a" of "coza" again...  I did find "cozahuiya" (to
> turn yellow).  Could this shorten to give us "coza"?
>
> How about this?  Karttunen has an entry for "cozehua" which she
> defines as "to make something turn yellow" (which supports my
> "coztic" theory).  Perhaps "tlalcozahua" is really "tlalcozehua" and
> means "to make (the) earth turn yellow".
>
> I guess I would ask the original post's author for some context.
> What is the source? Can you give us some more of the passage?  Is
> there any hint at vowel length?
>
> What do others think?
>
> Ben
>
> Ben Leeming
> Chair, History Department
> The Rivers School
> Weston, MA 02493
> (781) 235-9300
>
>
>
>
> On 6/1/10 4:10 PM, "Michael McCafferty" <mmccaffe at indiana.edu> wrote:
>
> Quoting vazquezdiaz at aol.com:
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Please help me out with the meaning of the word  TLALCOSAHUA
>>
>>
>
>
> Sounds like 'earth-ferret-haver'
>
> tla:l-co:zah-huah
>
> someone who has/owns an 'earth-ferret'...whatever that is. :-)
>
> Michael
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> Sample disclaimer text
>





________________________________
Sample disclaimer text
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/nahuat-l/attachments/20100601/f6022621/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl

From t_amaya at megared.net.mx  Wed Jun  2 02:34:41 2010
From: t_amaya at megared.net.mx (Tomas Amaya)
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2010 21:34:41 -0500
Subject: Nahuatl Digest, Vol 179, Issue 1
In-Reply-To: <8CCCFD758436403-2054-170F@webmail-d043.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.1.JUN.2010.213441.0500.TAMAYA@MEGARED.NET.MX>

Tocnihuane'

 

Once again a contribution from nahuat of Cuetzalan. 

 

1.       Cozahua' is a verbal particle related to "getting yellow"

2.       Cozahuac means "yellowish"

3.       Firs meaning: talcozahua' (NC=tlalcozahua') => earth that is
getting yellow

4.       Second meaning: talcozahuac (NC=  tlalcozahuac) => earth that is
yellowish

5.       Examples that may aid to understand it: Huitzil-opochtli =
hummingbird that is left-handed; Cuauh-temoc = Eagle that has descendet;
tezcatli-poca = mirror that smokes. 

 

Niamechyoltlapalohua. 

 

Tomas Amaya

 

De: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org [mailto:nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org]
En nombre de vazquezdiaz at aol.com
Enviado el: Martes, 01 de Junio de 2010 02:26 p.m.
Para: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
Asunto: Re: [Nahuat-l] Nahuatl Digest, Vol 179, Issue 1

 

 

 

Please help me out with the meaning of the word  TLALCOSAHUA



 

-----Original Message-----
From: nahuatl-request at lists.famsi.org
To: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
Sent: Tue, Jun 1, 2010 10:00 am
Subject: Nahuatl Digest, Vol 179, Issue 1

Send Nahuatl mailing list submissions to






    nahuatl at lists.famsi.org













To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit






    http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl






or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to






    nahuatl-request at lists.famsi.org













You can reach the person managing the list at






    nahuatl-owner at lists.famsi.org













When replying, please change the Subject line of your email to match






the exact topic being discussed, and delete all but the most important






text from previous messages.




















Today's Topics:













   1. matlalin - blue, green, blue-green? (Molly Bassett)




















--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**
--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**
--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**
--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**













Message: 1






Date: Mon, 31 May 2010 14:01:04 -0400






From: Molly Bassett <mbassett at gsu.edu>






Subject: [Nahuat-l] matlalin - blue, green, blue-green?






To: "Nahuat-l (messages)" <nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>






Message-ID: <E5EA57AC-5330-4020-B31D-B057AE08E470 at gsu.edu>






Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"













Hi, all.













I'm working on a piece dealing with the significance of colors in  






precontact Central Mexican religious contexts, and I have a question  






about the meaning of ma:tla:lin.













Frances Karttunen follows Molina in defining matlalin as ?the color  






dark green?:  ?This is attested in Z in matlalzahuatl (literally  






?green pox?) and possibly in Matlalpan, although the sense of the  






latter would be obcure from this gloss, which appears to have  






something to do with lowness of sature.  Conceivably it is derived  






instead from tlalpan ?on the ground'" (139).













But Dibble & Anderson translate matlalin as ?blue? in the Florentine,  






which notes that "its name comes from nowhere.  It is the blossom of  






an herb, a blossom.  This matlalin is blue and a little herb-green.   






It is very sound, firm, good, of good appearance, fresh green.  It is  






fresh green, very resh green. . . . / acan quizqui in itoca, xihuitl  






ixochyo, xochitl: inin matlali texotic, ihuan achi quiltic, cenca  






ixtlapalhui, ixchicactic, cualli, cualnezqui, celic, celic,  






celpatic. . . ." (11: 240).













The Badianus Ms. cites matlalxochitl (presumably the xochitl referred  






to in the Florentine?) as an element in a treatment for "heat" in the  






eyes (pl. 14, p. 218).  The footnote for matlalxochitl glosses the  






term as "blue flower" identifies the plant as "the dayflower,  






Commelina, of which a number of species are found on the Mexican  






plateau.  A native variant Nahuatl name for it is matlaliztic.   






Hern?ndez refers to several varieties of matlalxochitl (pp. 383-4),  






but none of the illustrations resembles Commelina; thus the name must  






have been applied to several flowers of blue color" (219-20).













So, two of these three sources relate matlalin to blue; I haven't  






followed up on Hern?ndez yet.  Are there other places I should look  






for more information on matlalin as blue or green?  I realize that  






blue-green functioned as a range or spectrum in precontact  






Mesoamerica, but the discrepancy among these sources has piqued my  






curiosity.













Thanks,






Molly













----------------------------------------------------------






Molly H. Bassett






Assistant Professor, Mesoamerican Religions and Indigenous Traditions






Department of Religious Studies






Georgia State University






1137 34 Peachtree Street NW






Atlanta, GA 30302













-------------- next part --------------






An HTML attachment was scrubbed...






URL:
http://www.famsi.org/pipermail/nahuatl/attachments/20100531/0371f210/attachm
ent-0001.htm 




















--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**
--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**













_______________________________________________






Nahuatl mailing list






Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org






http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl




















End of Nahuatl Digest, Vol 179, Issue 1






***************************************






-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/nahuat-l/attachments/20100601/ab173ac7/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl

From vazquezdiaz at aol.com  Wed Jun  2 15:07:05 2010
From: vazquezdiaz at aol.com (vazquezdiaz at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2010 11:07:05 -0400
Subject: significado de tlalcosahua
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1784.1275480392.2703.nahuatl@lists.famsi.org>
Message-ID: <WED.2.JUN.2010.110705.0400.>


 Tlalcosahua is a small village in the state of Jalisco.  It is located in the Huejucar muncipality.

It has about 650 habitants and it is almost a thousand years old.

Prior to the arrival of the the Spaniards Tlalcosahua was there.

 It has been interpreted as THE PLACE WHERE THE WATER TWIST
SITIO DONDE EL AGUA SERPENTEA..

THERE IS NO EXPLANATION OF THE MAKE UP OF THE WORD

AND THAT IS WHAT I AM TRYING TO OBTAIN.

PLEASE DO HELP.

 


 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: nahuatl-request at lists.famsi.org
To: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
Sent: Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:06 am
Subject: Nahuatl Digest, Vol 179, Issue 3


Send Nahuatl mailing list submissions to
    nahuatl at lists.famsi.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
    http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
    nahuatl-request at lists.famsi.org

You can reach the person managing the list at
    nahuatl-owner at lists.famsi.org

When replying, please change the Subject line of your email to match
the exact topic being discussed, and delete all but the most important
text from previous messages.


Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Nahuatl Digest, Vol 179, Issue 1 (Leeming, Ben)
   2. Re: Nahuatl Digest, Vol 179, Issue 1 (Michael McCafferty)
   3. Re: Nahuatl Digest, Vol 179, Issue 1 (Leeming, Ben)
   4. Re: Nahuatl Digest, Vol 179, Issue 1 (Tomas Amaya)


--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2010 20:50:14 -0400
From: "Leeming, Ben" <b.leeming at rivers.org>
Subject: Re: [Nahuat-l] Nahuatl Digest, Vol 179, Issue 1
To: Michael McCafferty <mmccaffe at indiana.edu>, "vazquezdiaz at aol.com"
    <vazquezdiaz at aol.com>
Cc: "nahuatl at lists.famsi.org" <nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>
Message-ID: <C82B2306.45DE%b.leeming at rivers.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

A couple of ideas from the New England contingent:

I definitely agree that "sa" is really "za".  Initially I was thinking "zahua" 
as in "to fast"...but then the "tlalco" doesn't quite work.  I started working 
with Michael's "-huah" (preterit agentive noun of possession suffix) and then 
may have hit on something.  What if that "coz" or even "coza" has to do with 
"yellow", and "tlalcozahua" is something like "owner of yellow earth"?  But 
there's that "a" after "coz"...

There's also the "coz" of "co:ztli" (necklace).  The original post's author 
didn't indicate vowel length so this might be possible.  But then there's that 
"a" of "coza" again...  I did find "cozahuiya" (to turn yellow).  Could this 
shorten to give us "coza"?

How about this?  Karttunen has an entry for "cozehua" which she defines as "to 
make something turn yellow" (which supports my "coztic" theory).  Perhaps 
"tlalcozahua" is really "tlalcozehua" and means "to make (the) earth turn 
yellow".

I guess I would ask the original post's author for some context.  What is the 
source? Can you give us some more of the passage?  Is there any hint at vowel 
length?

What do others think?

Ben

Ben Leeming
Chair, History Department
The Rivers School
Weston, MA 02493
(781) 235-9300




On 6/1/10 4:10 PM, "Michael McCafferty" <mmccaffe at indiana.edu> wrote:

Quoting vazquezdiaz at aol.com:

>
>
>
>
>
>
> Please help me out with the meaning of the word  TLALCOSAHUA
>
>


Sounds like 'earth-ferret-haver'

tla:l-co:zah-huah

someone who has/owns an 'earth-ferret'...whatever that is. :-)

Michael




________________________________
Sample disclaimer text
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.famsi.org/pipermail/nahuatl/attachments/20100601/97f15146/attachment-0001.htm 


--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**

Message: 2
Date: Tue,  1 Jun 2010 21:00:46 -0400
From: Michael McCafferty <mmccaffe at indiana.edu>
Subject: Re: [Nahuat-l] Nahuatl Digest, Vol 179, Issue 1
To: "Leeming, Ben" <b.leeming at rivers.org>
Cc: "nahuatl at lists.famsi.org" <nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>,
    "vazquezdiaz at aol.com" <vazquezdiaz at aol.com>
Message-ID: <20100601210046.1u67xfypkwk0gw8o at webmail.iu.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain;   charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed"

la localidad de Tlalcosahua est? situado en el Municipio de Huej?car 
(en el Estado de Jalisco).

de PueblosAmerica.com


uoting "Leeming, Ben" <b.leeming at rivers.org>:

> A couple of ideas from the New England contingent:
>
> I definitely agree that "sa" is really "za".  Initially I was
> thinking "zahua" as in "to fast"...but then the "tlalco" doesn't
> quite work.  I started working with Michael's "-huah" (preterit
> agentive noun of possession suffix) and then may have hit on
> something.  What if that "coz" or even "coza" has to do with
> "yellow", and "tlalcozahua" is something like "owner of yellow
> earth"?  But there's that "a" after "coz"...
>
> There's also the "coz" of "co:ztli" (necklace).  The original post's
> author didn't indicate vowel length so this might be possible.  But
> then there's that "a" of "coza" again...  I did find "cozahuiya" (to
> turn yellow).  Could this shorten to give us "coza"?
>
> How about this?  Karttunen has an entry for "cozehua" which she
> defines as "to make something turn yellow" (which supports my
> "coztic" theory).  Perhaps "tlalcozahua" is really "tlalcozehua" and
> means "to make (the) earth turn yellow".
>
> I guess I would ask the original post's author for some context.
> What is the source? Can you give us some more of the passage?  Is
> there any hint at vowel length?
>
> What do others think?
>
> Ben
>
> Ben Leeming
> Chair, History Department
> The Rivers School
> Weston, MA 02493
> (781) 235-9300
>
>
>
>
> On 6/1/10 4:10 PM, "Michael McCafferty" <mmccaffe at indiana.edu> wrote:
>
> Quoting vazquezdiaz at aol.com:
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Please help me out with the meaning of the word  TLALCOSAHUA
>>
>>
>
>
> Sounds like 'earth-ferret-haver'
>
> tla:l-co:zah-huah
>
> someone who has/owns an 'earth-ferret'...whatever that is. :-)
>
> Michael
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> Sample disclaimer text
>






--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**

Message: 3
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2010 21:23:56 -0400
From: "Leeming, Ben" <b.leeming at rivers.org>
Subject: Re: [Nahuat-l] Nahuatl Digest, Vol 179, Issue 1
To: Michael McCafferty <mmccaffe at indiana.edu>
Cc: "nahuatl at lists.famsi.org" <nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>,
    "vazquezdiaz at aol.com" <vazquezdiaz at aol.com>
Message-ID: <C82B2AEC.45E3%b.leeming at rivers.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Ok. But what does Tlalcosahua mean?

I'm curious to hear John Sullivan's two cents.  John?

Ben


On 6/1/10 9:00 PM, "Michael McCafferty" <mmccaffe at indiana.edu> wrote:

la localidad de Tlalcosahua est? situado en el Municipio de Huej?car
(en el Estado de Jalisco).

de PueblosAmerica.com


uoting "Leeming, Ben" <b.leeming at rivers.org>:

> A couple of ideas from the New England contingent:
>
> I definitely agree that "sa" is really "za".  Initially I was
> thinking "zahua" as in "to fast"...but then the "tlalco" doesn't
> quite work.  I started working with Michael's "-huah" (preterit
> agentive noun of possession suffix) and then may have hit on
> something.  What if that "coz" or even "coza" has to do with
> "yellow", and "tlalcozahua" is something like "owner of yellow
> earth"?  But there's that "a" after "coz"...
>
> There's also the "coz" of "co:ztli" (necklace).  The original post's
> author didn't indicate vowel length so this might be possible.  But
> then there's that "a" of "coza" again...  I did find "cozahuiya" (to
> turn yellow).  Could this shorten to give us "coza"?
>
> How about this?  Karttunen has an entry for "cozehua" which she
> defines as "to make something turn yellow" (which supports my
> "coztic" theory).  Perhaps "tlalcozahua" is really "tlalcozehua" and
> means "to make (the) earth turn yellow".
>
> I guess I would ask the original post's author for some context.
> What is the source? Can you give us some more of the passage?  Is
> there any hint at vowel length?
>
> What do others think?
>
> Ben
>
> Ben Leeming
> Chair, History Department
> The Rivers School
> Weston, MA 02493
> (781) 235-9300
>
>
>
>
> On 6/1/10 4:10 PM, "Michael McCafferty" <mmccaffe at indiana.edu> wrote:
>
> Quoting vazquezdiaz at aol.com:
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Please help me out with the meaning of the word  TLALCOSAHUA
>>
>>
>
>
> Sounds like 'earth-ferret-haver'
>
> tla:l-co:zah-huah
>
> someone who has/owns an 'earth-ferret'...whatever that is. :-)
>
> Michael
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> Sample disclaimer text
>





________________________________
Sample disclaimer text
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.famsi.org/pipermail/nahuatl/attachments/20100601/b0ac0774/attachment-0001.htm 


--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**

Message: 4
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2010 21:34:41 -0500
From: "Tomas Amaya" <t_amaya at megared.net.mx>
Subject: Re: [Nahuat-l] Nahuatl Digest, Vol 179, Issue 1
To: <vazquezdiaz at aol.com>, <nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>
Message-ID: <002401cb01fc$27890a70$769b1f50$@net.mx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Tocnihuane'

 

Once again a contribution from nahuat of Cuetzalan. 

 

1.       Cozahua' is a verbal particle related to "getting yellow"

2.       Cozahuac means "yellowish"

3.       Firs meaning: talcozahua' (NC=tlalcozahua') => earth that is
getting yellow

4.       Second meaning: talcozahuac (NC=  tlalcozahuac) => earth that is
yellowish

5.       Examples that may aid to understand it: Huitzil-opochtli =
hummingbird that is left-handed; Cuauh-temoc = Eagle that has descendet;
tezcatli-poca = mirror that smokes. 

 

Niamechyoltlapalohua. 

 

Tomas Amaya

 

De: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org [mailto:nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org]
En nombre de vazquezdiaz at aol.com
Enviado el: Martes, 01 de Junio de 2010 02:26 p.m.
Para: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
Asunto: Re: [Nahuat-l] Nahuatl Digest, Vol 179, Issue 1

 

 

 

Please help me out with the meaning of the word  TLALCOSAHUA



 

-----Original Message-----
From: nahuatl-request at lists.famsi.org
To: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
Sent: Tue, Jun 1, 2010 10:00 am
Subject: Nahuatl Digest, Vol 179, Issue 1

Send Nahuatl mailing list submissions to






    nahuatl at lists.famsi.org













To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit






    http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl






or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to






    nahuatl-request at lists.famsi.org













You can reach the person managing the list at






    nahuatl-owner at lists.famsi.org













When replying, please change the Subject line of your email to match






the exact topic being discussed, and delete all but the most important






text from previous messages.




















Today's Topics:













   1. matlalin - blue, green, blue-green? (Molly Bassett)




















--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**
--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**
--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**
--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**













Message: 1






Date: Mon, 31 May 2010 14:01:04 -0400






From: Molly Bassett <mbassett at gsu.edu>






Subject: [Nahuat-l] matlalin - blue, green, blue-green?






To: "Nahuat-l (messages)" <nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>






Message-ID: <E5EA57AC-5330-4020-B31D-B057AE08E470 at gsu.edu>






Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"













Hi, all.













I'm working on a piece dealing with the significance of colors in  






precontact Central Mexican religious contexts, and I have a question  






about the meaning of ma:tla:lin.













Frances Karttunen follows Molina in defining matlalin as ?the color  






dark green?:  ?This is attested in Z in matlalzahuatl (literally  






?green pox?) and possibly in Matlalpan, although the sense of the  






latter would be obcure from this gloss, which appears to have  






something to do with lowness of sature.  Conceivably it is derived  






instead from tlalpan ?on the ground'" (139).













But Dibble & Anderson translate matlalin as ?blue? in the Florentine,  






which notes that "its name comes from nowhere.  It is the blossom of  






an herb, a blossom.  This matlalin is blue and a little herb-green.   






It is very sound, firm, good, of good appearance, fresh green.  It is  






fresh green, very resh green. . . . / acan quizqui in itoca, xihuitl  






ixochyo, xochitl: inin matlali texotic, ihuan achi quiltic, cenca  






ixtlapalhui, ixchicactic, cualli, cualnezqui, celic, celic,  






celpatic. . . ." (11: 240).













The Badianus Ms. cites matlalxochitl (presumably the xochitl referred  






to in the Florentine?) as an element in a treatment for "heat" in the  






eyes (pl. 14, p. 218).  The footnote for matlalxochitl glosses the  






term as "blue flower" identifies the plant as "the dayflower,  






Commelina, of which a number of species are found on the Mexican  






plateau.  A native variant Nahuatl name for it is matlaliztic.   






Hern?ndez refers to several varieties of matlalxochitl (pp. 383-4),  






but none of the illustrations resembles Commelina; thus the name must  






have been applied to several flowers of blue color" (219-20).













So, two of these three sources relate matlalin to blue; I haven't  






followed up on Hern?ndez yet.  Are there other places I should look  






for more information on matlalin as blue or green?  I realize that  






blue-green functioned as a range or spectrum in precontact  






Mesoamerica, but the discrepancy among these sources has piqued my  






curiosity.













Thanks,






Molly













----------------------------------------------------------






Molly H. Bassett






Assistant Professor, Mesoamerican Religions and Indigenous Traditions






Department of Religious Studies






Georgia State University






1137 34 Peachtree Street NW






Atlanta, GA 30302













-------------- next part --------------






An HTML attachment was scrubbed...






URL:
http://www.famsi.org/pipermail/nahuatl/attachments/20100531/0371f210/attachm
ent-0001.htm 




















--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**
--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**













_______________________________________________






Nahuatl mailing list






Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org






http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl




















End of Nahuatl Digest, Vol 179, Issue 1






***************************************






-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.famsi.org/pipermail/nahuatl/attachments/20100601/ee1fe773/attachment.htm 


--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**

_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


End of Nahuatl Digest, Vol 179, Issue 3
***************************************

 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/nahuat-l/attachments/20100602/5ca4b5c0/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl

From mmccaffe at indiana.edu  Wed Jun  2 20:07:50 2010
From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty)
Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2010 16:07:50 -0400
Subject: Nahuatl Digest, Vol 179, Issue 1
In-Reply-To: <002401cb01fc$27890a70$769b1f50$@net.mx>
Message-ID: <WED.2.JUN.2010.160750.0400.MMCCAFFE@INDIANA.EDU>

Tlaxtlahui, Tomas.

Here are some additional fine-tuning, I hope. :)

Quoting Tomas Amaya <t_amaya at megared.net.mx>:

> Tocnihuane'
>
>
>
> Once again a contribution from nahuat of Cuetzalan.
>
>
>
> 1.       Cozahua' is a verbal particle related to "getting yellow"


In "classical" Nahuatl a transitive verb something like this exists:
tlacoze:hua 'he/she makes something yellow'...basically to "ehua" 
something in a yellow way "coz-". But from your examples below I 
understand neither the morphology or the grammaticality of "cozahua". 
Could you go into those?

My general thinking at the moment is that it's certainly interesting 
what you say below, but I think we need more data to establish the 
meaning of this place name.

At the same time, there are definitely other people on this list who 
could add light to this discussion, I would think.

In the meantime, I've added a couple of extra comments below,

All the best,

Michael

>
> 2.       Cozahuac means "yellowish"

What are the constitutent morphemes?

coz- 'yellow'

???? -------


>
> 3.       Firs meaning: talcozahua' (NC=tlalcozahua') => earth that is
> getting yellow

There is in "classical," cozahui:ya  'to get yellow'

tla:lli in cozahui:ya  'earth that is getting yellow'

I would imagine *tla:lcozahui:ya would mean something like becoming the 
yellow associated with soil.

>
> 4.       Second meaning: talcozahuac (NC=  tlalcozahuac) => earth that is
> yellowish
>

Following your examples below, "tlalcozahuac" would actually mean

'it got yellow in a soil way'


> 5.       Examples that may aid to understand it: Huitzil-opochtli =
> hummingbird that is left-handed;


Cuauh-temoc = Eagle that has descendet;

This actually means 'he descended like an eagle'...."he 
eagle-descended", ...neither like a falcon, nor a swallow, whatever, 
but like an eagle. It's very wonderful name as given names go, don't 
you think?




> tezcatli-poca = mirror that smokes.






>
>
>
> Niamechyoltlapalohua.
>
>
>
> Tomas Amaya
>

_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From idiez at me.com  Fri Jun  4 04:49:38 2010
From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan)
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2010 23:49:38 -0500
Subject: Nahuatl summer course in Zacatecas
Message-ID: <THU.3.JUN.2010.234938.0500.IDIEZ@ME.COM>

Piyali listeros,
	As you know our Yale Nahuatl Summer Language Institute will be held in Zacatecas from June 21 to July 30. I'm happy to announce that Joe Campbell will be with us for the entire six weeks. If you are in the vicinity, don't hesitate to stop by, meet us and sit in on a few classes.
John

John Sullivan, Ph.D.
Professor of Nahua language and culture
Universidad Autónoma de Zacatecas
Zacatecas Institute of Teaching and Research in Ethnology
Tacuba 152, int. 43
Centro Histórico
Zacatecas, Zac. 98000
Mexico
Work: +52 (492) 925-3415
Fax: +1 (858) 724-3030 (U.S.A.)
Home: +52 (492) 768-6048
Mobile: +52 1 (492) 103-0195
idiez at me.com
www.macehualli.org

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/nahuat-l/attachments/20100603/0e6c7cbd/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl

From vazquezdiaz at aol.com  Thu Jun  3 20:56:58 2010
From: vazquezdiaz at aol.com (vazquezdiaz at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2010 16:56:58 -0400
Subject: signifficado de tlalcosahua vs tlal pu ja hua
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3.1275584401.8800.nahuatl@lists.famsi.org>
Message-ID: <THU.3.JUN.2010.165658.0400.>


 

 Muchas gracias por compartir la informacion relacionada con TLAL CO  SAHUA

Hay otro lugar que se llama  TLAL PU JA HUA   de Tlalpoxahua  tlalli = tierra + poxahua = fofo, por lo tanto Tlalpoxahua significa "tierra fofa."

Con lo de Tlalcosahua (municipio de Huejucar, Jalisco) aun no lo puedo digerir bien.  

Socorrro!


 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: nahuatl-request at lists.famsi.org
To: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
Sent: Thu, Jun 3, 2010 10:00 am
Subject: Nahuatl Digest, Vol 179, Issue 5


Send Nahuatl mailing list submissions to
    nahuatl at lists.famsi.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
    http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
    nahuatl-request at lists.famsi.org

You can reach the person managing the list at
    nahuatl-owner at lists.famsi.org

When replying, please change the Subject line of your email to match
the exact topic being discussed, and delete all but the most important
text from previous messages.


Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Nahuatl Digest, Vol 179, Issue 1 (Michael McCafferty)


--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**

Message: 1
Date: Wed,  2 Jun 2010 16:07:50 -0400
From: Michael McCafferty <mmccaffe at indiana.edu>
Subject: Re: [Nahuat-l] Nahuatl Digest, Vol 179, Issue 1
To: Tomas Amaya <t_amaya at megared.net.mx>
Cc: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org, vazquezdiaz at aol.com
Message-ID: <20100602160750.yqa4xirpq8k84os4 at webmail.iu.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain;   charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed"



Tlaxtlahui, Tomas.

Here are some additional fine-tuning, I hope. :)

Quoting Tomas Amaya <t_amaya at megared.net.mx>:

> Tocnihuane'
>
>
>
> Once again a contribution from nahuat of Cuetzalan.
>
>
>
> 1.       Cozahua' is a verbal particle related to "getting yellow"


In "classical" Nahuatl a transitive verb something like this exists:
tlacoze:hua 'he/she makes something yellow'...basically to "ehua" 
something in a yellow way "coz-". But from your examples below I 
understand neither the morphology or the grammaticality of "cozahua". 
Could you go into those?

My general thinking at the moment is that it's certainly interesting 
what you say below, but I think we need more data to establish the 
meaning of this place name.

At the same time, there are definitely other people on this list who 
could add light to this discussion, I would think.

In the meantime, I've added a couple of extra comments below,

All the best,

Michael

>
> 2.       Cozahuac means "yellowish"

What are the constitutent morphemes?

coz- 'yellow'

???? -------


>
> 3.       Firs meaning: talcozahua' (NC=tlalcozahua') => earth that is
> getting yellow

There is in "classical," cozahui:ya  'to get yellow'

tla:lli in cozahui:ya  'earth that is getting yellow'

I would imagine *tla:lcozahui:ya would mean something like becoming the 
yellow associated with soil.

>
> 4.       Second meaning: talcozahuac (NC=  tlalcozahuac) => earth that is
> yellowish
>

Following your examples below, "tlalcozahuac" would actually mean

'it got yellow in a soil way'


> 5.       Examples that may aid to understand it: Huitzil-opochtli =
> hummingbird that is left-handed;


Cuauh-temoc = Eagle that has descendet;

This actually means 'he descended like an eagle'...."he 
eagle-descended", ...neither like a falcon, nor a swallow, whatever, 
but like an eagle. It's very wonderful name as given names go, don't 
you think?




> tezcatli-poca = mirror that smokes.






>
>
>
> Niamechyoltlapalohua.
>
>
>
> Tomas Amaya
>



--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**

_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


End of Nahuatl Digest, Vol 179, Issue 5
***************************************

 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/nahuat-l/attachments/20100603/1494c9a3/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl

From lahunik.62 at skynet.be  Sat Jun  5 00:30:38 2010
From: lahunik.62 at skynet.be (lahunik.62 at skynet.be)
Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2010 02:30:38 +0200
Subject: Matlalin, matlalli or matlaltic
Message-ID: <SAT.5.JUN.2010.023038.0200.>

Matlalin, matlalli or matlaltic.

1.      Medical and dying plant.

Commelina coelestis.

Matlalin ixochyo, the blossom of the matlalin. Sah.11.158.

Cure of a fever named, matlaltotonqui.

2.      Matlalin.

Dying substance, dark blue-green. R.Andrews Intr.452.

Dunkelgrune Farbe. SIS.1952,273.

Inin matlalli texohtic ihuan achi quiltic, este matlalli es azul y un poco
verde.

Cod.Flor.XI.217v.; Sah.11.240.

Launey II.241.

Huel iuhquin matlalin, mamatlaltic, matlaltic,

just like the blue coloring, an intense blue, blue.

Is said of the jewel stone, matlalitztli. Sah.11.227.

Obsidiane azul, piedra preciosa. Sah.HG.XI.8.24.

Garibay Sah.1969.IX.341.

3.      Matlalli

Cosa de color de cardeno o cosa azul.

Rainbow. Sah.7.18.

Veilchenblau, violett.

Nach Sahagun's Beschreibung der Regenbogens.

Nach der bekannten Vermengung von Blau und Grun. In der Farbenbezeichnung
der Indianer bedeutet das Wort auch "cosa de color verde escuro",
dunkelgrun. SIS.1950.295.

4.      Matlaltic

Cosa de color verde escuro. Molina II.53r.

Texohtic ahnozo matlaltic, azul o de color verde oscuro.

Is said of the flower of the Cuauheloquilic. Cod.Flor.XI.153r.; Sah.11.160.

Matlaltic, matlalayohtic, darkgreen, gourd-green, is said of the river.
Sah.II.248.

A coton variety de Tollan. Sah.3.14.

Matlaltic in iayo, su jugo es de color verde oscuro.

Is said of the plant Coahtli. Cod.Flor.XI.114r; Sah.II.111.

R.Simeon said, vert foncé, azur tres pur, tres fin.

5.      Matlalcueyeh.

Mountain on which the town of Tlaxcala is buiild.

The glyph shows a mountain with the flower of the matlalin. 

Lahun Ik 62

Baert Georges

Flanders Fields

 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/nahuat-l/attachments/20100605/54ace6eb/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl

From Irene.Padilla at fmc-na.com  Mon Jun  7 18:29:06 2010
From: Irene.Padilla at fmc-na.com (Irene Padilla)
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2010 11:29:06 PDT
Subject: (no subject)
Message-ID: <MON.7.JUN.2010.112906.PDT.IRENE.PADILLA@FMCNA.COM>


Good Morning Listeros
I'm in need of some help. I know this might be unusual but i am looking for
a Nahua name for a lil' girl

Is it CITLALI or XITLALLI?
What is the correct pronunciation? and meaning? star?
Thank you all for the quick lesson
~Irene
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/nahuat-l/attachments/20100607/cef2fbc1/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl

From mmccaffe at indiana.edu  Mon Jun  7 19:52:46 2010
From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty)
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2010 15:52:46 -0400
Subject: (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <201006071830.o57IURNx030165@www.famsi.org>
Message-ID: <MON.7.JUN.2010.155246.0400.MMCCAFFE@INDIANA.EDU>

Quoting Irene Padilla <Irene.Padilla at fmc-na.com>:

>
> Good Morning Listeros
> I'm in need of some help. I know this might be unusual but i am looking for
> a Nahua name for a lil' girl
>
> Is it CITLALI or XITLALLI?
> What is the correct pronunciation? and meaning? star?
> Thank you all for the quick lesson
> ~Irene

The word in question, Irene, is citlali(n) 'star'

si-TLA-li

or with the -n:

si-TLA-liNG   (something like the sound orthographic English -ing)


Nice name.

Michael


_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From micc2 at cox.net  Wed Jun  9 00:06:34 2010
From: micc2 at cox.net (MICC2)
Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2010 17:06:34 -0700
Subject: (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <201006071830.o57IURNx030165@www.famsi.org>
Message-ID: <TUE.8.JUN.2010.170634.0700.MICC2@COX.NET>

it SHOULD be zitlalli or citalli, but many Chicanos ,  for the sake of 
being cool, have written it Xitlalli, even though that would
  be said as SHI-tlal -li, which is not correct........

Mario

I live for reasoned, enlightened spirituality:

"Tlacecelilli", tranquilidad, paz


Mario E. Aguilar, PhD
www.mexicayotl.net



On 6/7/2010 11:29 AM, Irene Padilla wrote:
>
> Good Morning Listeros
> I'm in need of some help. I know this might be unusual but i am 
> looking for a Nahua name for a lil' girl
>
> Is it CITLALI or XITLALLI?
> What is the correct pronunciation? and meaning? star?
> Thank you all for the quick lesson
> ~Irene
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>    
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/nahuat-l/attachments/20100608/69a84780/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl

From mmccaffe at indiana.edu  Wed Jun  9 11:08:22 2010
From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty)
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2010 07:08:22 -0400
Subject: (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <4C0EDB0A.3080708@cox.net>
Message-ID: <WED.9.JUN.2010.070822.0400.MMCCAFFE@INDIANA.EDU>

Irene,

Note that Mario in the first example has a pronunciation of the name 
that reflects a tl-dialect of Nahuatl whereas the second example 
reflects a t-dialect of Nahuatl.

The name noted does not have the final -n of the term for 'star'. 
Without that /n/, the name sounds to me like "ground, earth, land' to 
me. something-tlalli.
But that's the way it goes.



Michael


Quoting MICC2 <micc2 at cox.net>:

> it SHOULD be zitlalli or citalli, but many Chicanos ,  for the sake
> of being cool, have written it Xitlalli, even though that would
>  be said as SHI-tlal -li, which is not correct........
>
> Mario
>
> I live for reasoned, enlightened spirituality:
>
> "Tlacecelilli", tranquilidad, paz
>
>
> Mario E. Aguilar, PhD
> www.mexicayotl.net
>
>
>
> On 6/7/2010 11:29 AM, Irene Padilla wrote:
>>
>> Good Morning Listeros
>> I'm in need of some help. I know this might be unusual but i am
>> looking for a Nahua name for a lil' girl
>>
>> Is it CITLALI or XITLALLI?
>> What is the correct pronunciation? and meaning? star?
>> Thank you all for the quick lesson
>> ~Irene
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nahuatl mailing list
>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>>
>



_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From mmccaffe at indiana.edu  Wed Jun  9 11:12:44 2010
From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty)
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2010 07:12:44 -0400
Subject: (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <20100609070822.u9jmx0ligoc80sg8@webmail.iu.edu>
Message-ID: <WED.9.JUN.2010.071244.0400.MMCCAFFE@INDIANA.EDU>

Quoting Michael McCafferty <mmccaffe at indiana.edu>:

> Irene,
>
> Note that Mario in the first example has a pronunciation of the name
> that reflects a tl-dialect of Nahuatl whereas the second example
> reflects a t-dialect of Nahuatl.
>
> The name noted does not have the final -n of the term for 'star'.
> Without that /n/, the name sounds to me like "ground, earth, land' to
> me. something-tlalli.

Of course, in native Nahuatl, there would be vowel length and consonant 
length differences between (ci:)tlali and tla:lli.

Michael



> But that's the way it goes.
>
>
>
> Michael
>
>
> Quoting MICC2 <micc2 at cox.net>:
>
>> it SHOULD be zitlalli or citalli, but many Chicanos ,  for the sake
>> of being cool, have written it Xitlalli, even though that would
>>  be said as SHI-tlal -li, which is not correct........
>>
>> Mario
>>
>> I live for reasoned, enlightened spirituality:
>>
>> "Tlacecelilli", tranquilidad, paz
>>
>>
>> Mario E. Aguilar, PhD
>> www.mexicayotl.net
>>
>>
>>
>> On 6/7/2010 11:29 AM, Irene Padilla wrote:
>>>
>>> Good Morning Listeros
>>> I'm in need of some help. I know this might be unusual but i am
>>> looking for a Nahua name for a lil' girl
>>>
>>> Is it CITLALI or XITLALLI?
>>> What is the correct pronunciation? and meaning? star?
>>> Thank you all for the quick lesson
>>> ~Irene
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nahuatl mailing list
>>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>>>
>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>



_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From micc2 at cox.net  Wed Jun  9 23:21:36 2010
From: micc2 at cox.net (MICC2)
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2010 16:21:36 -0700
Subject: (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <20100609070822.u9jmx0ligoc80sg8@webmail.iu.edu>
Message-ID: <WED.9.JUN.2010.162136.0700.MICC2@COX.NET>

I have seen both citalli and citallin as star......

the -   "in" ending.... I have heard (maybe it is wishful theorizing on 
someone's part???!)....
denotes something small that has inherent movement (from ollin??):
michin,
quimichin
citlalin

Axmicmati!


On another note:  some of my Chicano gente write Chicano  (CHI-Kan-o) as 
Xicano  .... yet they write Xitalli  (Zi-tal-li)...  wouldn't that be...
using the same orthography.... (Zi-Kan-o)?

Maybe we should write Nahuatl in Esperanto!!!!

Mario

I live for reasoned, enlightened spirituality:

"Tlacecelilli", tranquilidad, paz


Mario E. Aguilar, PhD
www.mexicayotl.net



On 6/9/2010 4:08 AM, Michael McCafferty wrote:
> Irene,
>
> Note that Mario in the first example has a pronunciation of the name
> that reflects a tl-dialect of Nahuatl whereas the second example
> reflects a t-dialect of Nahuatl.
>
> The name noted does not have the final -n of the term for 'star'.
> Without that /n/, the name sounds to me like "ground, earth, land' to
> me. something-tlalli.
> But that's the way it goes.
>
>
>
> Michael
>
>
> Quoting MICC2<micc2 at cox.net>:
>
>    
>> it SHOULD be zitlalli or citalli, but many Chicanos ,  for the sake
>> of being cool, have written it Xitlalli, even though that would
>>   be said as SHI-tlal -li, which is not correct........
>>
>> Mario
>>
>> I live for reasoned, enlightened spirituality:
>>
>> "Tlacecelilli", tranquilidad, paz
>>
>>
>> Mario E. Aguilar, PhD
>> www.mexicayotl.net
>>
>>
>>
>> On 6/7/2010 11:29 AM, Irene Padilla wrote:
>>      
>>> Good Morning Listeros
>>> I'm in need of some help. I know this might be unusual but i am
>>> looking for a Nahua name for a lil' girl
>>>
>>> Is it CITLALI or XITLALLI?
>>> What is the correct pronunciation? and meaning? star?
>>> Thank you all for the quick lesson
>>> ~Irene
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nahuatl mailing list
>>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>>>
>>>        
>>      
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>
>    
_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From mmccaffe at indiana.edu  Thu Jun 10 00:50:04 2010
From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty)
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2010 20:50:04 -0400
Subject: (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <4C102200.9050807@cox.net>
Message-ID: <WED.9.JUN.2010.205004.0400.MMCCAFFE@INDIANA.EDU>

I've wondered about the "small" association with this noun suffix -in. 
Is this true or just folklore? And some of -in words are variable, e.g. 
cihtli/cihtin.

Fish are not necessarily small. Wind isn't small.

Michael.


Quoting MICC2 <micc2 at cox.net>:

> I have seen both citalli and citallin as star......
>
> the -   "in" ending.... I have heard (maybe it is wishful theorizing on
> someone's part???!)....
> denotes something small that has inherent movement (from ollin??):
> michin,
> quimichin
> citlalin
>
> Axmicmati!
>
>
> On another note:  some of my Chicano gente write Chicano  (CHI-Kan-o) as
> Xicano  .... yet they write Xitalli  (Zi-tal-li)...  wouldn't that be...
> using the same orthography.... (Zi-Kan-o)?
>
> Maybe we should write Nahuatl in Esperanto!!!!
>
> Mario
>
> I live for reasoned, enlightened spirituality:
>
> "Tlacecelilli", tranquilidad, paz
>
>
> Mario E. Aguilar, PhD
> www.mexicayotl.net
>
>
>
> On 6/9/2010 4:08 AM, Michael McCafferty wrote:
>> Irene,
>>
>> Note that Mario in the first example has a pronunciation of the name
>> that reflects a tl-dialect of Nahuatl whereas the second example
>> reflects a t-dialect of Nahuatl.
>>
>> The name noted does not have the final -n of the term for 'star'.
>> Without that /n/, the name sounds to me like "ground, earth, land' to
>> me. something-tlalli.
>> But that's the way it goes.
>>
>>
>>
>> Michael
>>
>>
>> Quoting MICC2<micc2 at cox.net>:
>>
>>
>>> it SHOULD be zitlalli or citalli, but many Chicanos ,  for the sake
>>> of being cool, have written it Xitlalli, even though that would
>>>   be said as SHI-tlal -li, which is not correct........
>>>
>>> Mario
>>>
>>> I live for reasoned, enlightened spirituality:
>>>
>>> "Tlacecelilli", tranquilidad, paz
>>>
>>>
>>> Mario E. Aguilar, PhD
>>> www.mexicayotl.net
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 6/7/2010 11:29 AM, Irene Padilla wrote:
>>>
>>>> Good Morning Listeros
>>>> I'm in need of some help. I know this might be unusual but i am
>>>> looking for a Nahua name for a lil' girl
>>>>
>>>> Is it CITLALI or XITLALLI?
>>>> What is the correct pronunciation? and meaning? star?
>>>> Thank you all for the quick lesson
>>>> ~Irene
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Nahuatl mailing list
>>>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>>>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nahuatl mailing list
>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>



_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From swood at uoregon.edu  Thu Jun 10 00:32:31 2010
From: swood at uoregon.edu (Stephanie Wood)
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2010 17:32:31 -0700
Subject: (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <4C102200.9050807@cox.net>
Message-ID: <WED.9.JUN.2010.173231.0700.SWOOD@UOREGON.EDU>

Hi Mario!

I was thinking that the "Xicano" spelling for Chicano was short for (and closer to) mexicano.  The whole preservation of "x" in Mexico and mexicano is kind of interesting, too.  Colleagues who are native speakers of Spanish (but not Mexican) often ask me why Mexico and mexicano aren't spelled with a "j," but this also seems to reflect a pride and a desire to hang onto the heritage form, as we see in Xicano.

As for Citlalli, I think it's beautiful just the way it is (also seen as citlali, citlalin in manuscripts).

Saludos,
Stephanie

On Jun 9, 2010, at 4:21 PM, MICC2 wrote:

> I have seen both citalli and citallin as star......
> 
> the -   "in" ending.... I have heard (maybe it is wishful theorizing on 
> someone's part???!)....
> denotes something small that has inherent movement (from ollin??):
> michin,
> quimichin
> citlalin
> 
> Axmicmati!
> 
> 
> On another note:  some of my Chicano gente write Chicano  (CHI-Kan-o) as 
> Xicano  .... yet they write Xitalli  (Zi-tal-li)...  wouldn't that be...
> using the same orthography.... (Zi-Kan-o)?
> 
> Maybe we should write Nahuatl in Esperanto!!!!
> 
> Mario
> 
> I live for reasoned, enlightened spirituality:
> 
> "Tlacecelilli", tranquilidad, paz
> 
> 
> Mario E. Aguilar, PhD
> www.mexicayotl.net
> 
> 
> 
> On 6/9/2010 4:08 AM, Michael McCafferty wrote:
>> Irene,
>> 
>> Note that Mario in the first example has a pronunciation of the name
>> that reflects a tl-dialect of Nahuatl whereas the second example
>> reflects a t-dialect of Nahuatl.
>> 
>> The name noted does not have the final -n of the term for 'star'.
>> Without that /n/, the name sounds to me like "ground, earth, land' to
>> me. something-tlalli.
>> But that's the way it goes.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Michael
>> 
>> 
>> Quoting MICC2<micc2 at cox.net>:
>> 
>> 
>>> it SHOULD be zitlalli or citalli, but many Chicanos ,  for the sake
>>> of being cool, have written it Xitlalli, even though that would
>>>  be said as SHI-tlal -li, which is not correct........
>>> 
>>> Mario
>>> 
>>> I live for reasoned, enlightened spirituality:
>>> 
>>> "Tlacecelilli", tranquilidad, paz
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Mario E. Aguilar, PhD
>>> www.mexicayotl.net
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 6/7/2010 11:29 AM, Irene Padilla wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Good Morning Listeros
>>>> I'm in need of some help. I know this might be unusual but i am
>>>> looking for a Nahua name for a lil' girl
>>>> 
>>>> Is it CITLALI or XITLALLI?
>>>> What is the correct pronunciation? and meaning? star?
>>>> Thank you all for the quick lesson
>>>> ~Irene
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Nahuatl mailing list
>>>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>>>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nahuatl mailing list
>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>> 
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From schwallr at potsdam.edu  Thu Jun 10 17:24:06 2010
From: schwallr at potsdam.edu (John F. Schwaller)
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 13:24:06 -0400
Subject: Nahua Newsletter no. 49, February 2010
Message-ID: <THU.10.JUN.2010.132406.0400.SCHWALLR@POTSDAM.EDU>



-------- Original Message --------
Subject: 	Nahua Newsletter no. 49, February 2010
Date: 	9 Jun 2010 13:36:08 -0400
From: 	Alan Sandstrom <sandstro at ipfw.edu>
To: 	



Dear Colleagues,
Please be advised that Nahua Newsletter no. 49, February 2010, has been 
posted at http://www.nahuanewsletter.org.
Thank you,
Alan R. Sandstrom
Editor, The Nahua Newsletter
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/nahuat-l/attachments/20100610/be410fb5/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl

From micc2 at cox.net  Thu Jun 10 23:09:51 2010
From: micc2 at cox.net (MICC2)
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 16:09:51 -0700
Subject: (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <57BA14C3-D774-4751-9C71-8D1AE8E18F9B@uoregon.edu>
Message-ID: <THU.10.JUN.2010.160951.0700.MICC2@COX.NET>

..."

I was thinking that the "Xicano" spelling for Chicano was short for (and closer to) mexicano"....

In a way it is... In that it means MeChicano...... Mexican but yet Chicano but historical fate......

a form of identity,0 and a reclamation of sacred semiotic space.

I live for reasoned, enlightened spirituality:

"Tlacecelilli", tranquilidad, paz


Mario E. Aguilar, PhD
www.mexicayotl.net



On 6/9/2010 5:32 PM, Stephanie Wood wrote:
> Hi Mario!
>
> I was thinking that the "Xicano" spelling for Chicano was short for (and closer to) mexicano.  The whole preservation of "x" in Mexico and mexicano is kind of interesting, too.  Colleagues who are native speakers of Spanish (but not Mexican) often ask me why Mexico and mexicano aren't spelled with a "j," but this also seems to reflect a pride and a desire to hang onto the heritage form, as we see in Xicano.
>
> As for Citlalli, I think it's beautiful just the way it is (also seen as citlali, citlalin in manuscripts).
>
> Saludos,
> Stephanie
>
> On Jun 9, 2010, at 4:21 PM, MICC2 wrote:
>
>    
>> I have seen both citalli and citallin as star......
>>
>> the -   "in" ending.... I have heard (maybe it is wishful theorizing on
>> someone's part???!)....
>> denotes something small that has inherent movement (from ollin??):
>> michin,
>> quimichin
>> citlalin
>>
>> Axmicmati!
>>
>>
>> On another note:  some of my Chicano gente write Chicano  (CHI-Kan-o) as
>> Xicano  .... yet they write Xitalli  (Zi-tal-li)...  wouldn't that be...
>> using the same orthography.... (Zi-Kan-o)?
>>
>> Maybe we should write Nahuatl in Esperanto!!!!
>>
>> Mario
>>
>> I live for reasoned, enlightened spirituality:
>>
>> "Tlacecelilli", tranquilidad, paz
>>
>>
>> Mario E. Aguilar, PhD
>> www.mexicayotl.net
>>
>>
>>
>> On 6/9/2010 4:08 AM, Michael McCafferty wrote:
>>      
>>> Irene,
>>>
>>> Note that Mario in the first example has a pronunciation of the name
>>> that reflects a tl-dialect of Nahuatl whereas the second example
>>> reflects a t-dialect of Nahuatl.
>>>
>>> The name noted does not have the final -n of the term for 'star'.
>>> Without that /n/, the name sounds to me like "ground, earth, land' to
>>> me. something-tlalli.
>>> But that's the way it goes.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Michael
>>>
>>>
>>> Quoting MICC2<micc2 at cox.net>:
>>>
>>>
>>>        
>>>> it SHOULD be zitlalli or citalli, but many Chicanos ,  for the sake
>>>> of being cool, have written it Xitlalli, even though that would
>>>>   be said as SHI-tlal -li, which is not correct........
>>>>
>>>> Mario
>>>>
>>>> I live for reasoned, enlightened spirituality:
>>>>
>>>> "Tlacecelilli", tranquilidad, paz
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Mario E. Aguilar, PhD
>>>> www.mexicayotl.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 6/7/2010 11:29 AM, Irene Padilla wrote:
>>>>
>>>>          
>>>>> Good Morning Listeros
>>>>> I'm in need of some help. I know this might be unusual but i am
>>>>> looking for a Nahua name for a lil' girl
>>>>>
>>>>> Is it CITLALI or XITLALLI?
>>>>> What is the correct pronunciation? and meaning? star?
>>>>> Thank you all for the quick lesson
>>>>> ~Irene
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Nahuatl mailing list
>>>>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>>>>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>            
>>>>          
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nahuatl mailing list
>>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>>>
>>>
>>>        
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nahuatl mailing list
>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>>      
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>
>    
_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From mikelffgg at yahoo.com  Fri Jun 11 12:36:32 2010
From: mikelffgg at yahoo.com (Mikel Fernandez)
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2010 05:36:32 -0700
Subject: radio online in nahuatl?
Message-ID: <FRI.11.JUN.2010.053632.0700.MIKELFFGG@YAHOO.COM>

Does anyone know if there are any issuer Nahuatl radio online?. I found the CNDP of such XEANT http://ecos.cdi.gob.mx/xeant.html.

The problem is that I've never been able to open any of them. Do not know if it's a temporary problem, my computer or otherwise.

Mikel 



      
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/nahuat-l/attachments/20100611/fe41c2f8/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl

From rich_photos at yahoo.com  Sat Jun 12 15:59:52 2010
From: rich_photos at yahoo.com (rick dosan)
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 08:59:52 -0700
Subject: request for nahuatl speaker
In-Reply-To: <20100609205004.xy53l6c8ao0sso0w@webmail.iu.edu>
Message-ID: <SAT.12.JUN.2010.085952.0700.RICHPHOTOS@YAHOO.COM>





An ad agency (TM locutores), needs a child or young person to speak for an ad.  I was asked by the agency to help them find someone who could read a short poem in Nahuatl for this ad.  They would like someone who speaks Nahuatl del Centro.  Any ideas?  Thanks, Richard Dorfsman


      
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/nahuat-l/attachments/20100612/78d2b576/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl

From campbel at indiana.edu  Sun Jun 13 20:28:46 2010
From: campbel at indiana.edu (Campbell, R. Joe)
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2010 16:28:46 -0400
Subject: Citlalin vs. Citlalli
In-Reply-To: <20100609205004.xy53l6c8ao0sso0w@webmail.iu.edu>
Message-ID: <SUN.13.JUN.2010.162846.0400.CAMPBEL@INDIANA.EDU>

Nocnihua,

   The ci:tlalin/citlalli discussion has been interesting to me,
partly because of my chuckle whenever I see another jewelry store
with a sign labeled "Citlalli" (please forgive my etymological
leaning).

   One point that we should all keep in mind is that languages
change, and, as fond as some of us are of words or morphemes at some
earlier stage, we should be willing to recognize changes when and if
they take place.  It is fairly clear that in the 16th century,
'ci:tlalin' existed as a word, since both Molina and Sahagun record
it multiple times (but without vowel length).  It is also clear that
final -n dropping was happening, since they also both record
'citlali' and Sahagun records 'citlalli'.

   The path that 'citlalin' (from here on, I suppress notation of
vowel length) can (and probably does) take to arrive at 'citlalli' is:

    citlalin  --->  citlali   (-n dropping)
    citlali   --->  citlalli  (re-interpretation as an -li noun)
                          [there are no word final -li nouns that
                           are not of the -tli or -lli class]

   A factor which contributes to the ambiguousness of class
membership (i.e., -lli vs. -in) for nouns is that their possessive
forms show no contrast:

    citlalin       nocitlal

    comalli        nocomal


   One minor factor in slowing the perception of certain "-n
dropped" nouns as joining the -lli noun class is that some -in nouns
are borrowed into Spanish, like 'chapulin' and 'capulin'.  With
regard to these borrowings, there is a question as to what weight
they might carry in the consciousness of Nahuatl speakers.  In
communities with a large percentage of monolingual Nahuatl speakers,
the fact that a few monolingual Spanish speaker pronounce 'chapulin'
might not be very relevant.
   As for bilingual speakers (of varying degrees), my guess is
that influence in one direction or the other would depend on their
degree of bilingualism and the degree of influence of monolingual
Spanish speakers.  I know that one of my friends from Oapan
(Morelos) drops word final -n in Spanish (with no trace of nasality
on the preceding vowel) in the same way that he treats Nahuatl
words.

   come (they eat) (for comen) [Spanish]

   patlani (it flies)  opatla (it flew, for opatlan) [Nahuatl]


   When we consider the "validity" of 'citlalli', we usually don't
consider a basic question:  What do the native speakers of the
various modern variations of Nahuatl think?  My fear is that many of
the judgements offered are those of us outsiders who have no
intuitions about the necessary facts such as whether the 'l' element
is long or short.

   I have included below a list of '-in' morphemes, along with their
frequencies of occurrence in the Molina dictionaries and the
Florentine Codex.  The stems that end in 'l' are separated from the
others.  It should be noted that stems that end in a consonant
*other* than 'l' don't result in the same sort of tantalizing
problem that those in 'll' do.  When 'michin' drops its 'n', the
absolutive form might seem to be 'michi', and the possessed form
'nomich' would hint that the classes of absolutive nouns are
now:

  -tli
  -li
  -i

BUT that -i class would clearly stand alone and it would not cause
the head scratching that 'citlali' is causing. And there is no
reason why 'citlali' and words like it might not belong to this new
-i class.

Joe

note 1: The confusion of 'l' and 'll' in Molina and Sahagun
(Florentine Codex) is something that I have been tabulating.
As of the present, their frequency is:

   l for ll:  179
   ll for l:  179

The identity of the frequencies is a coincidence, depending on my
identifying and labeling examples (in July 2007, they were 92 and
122, respectively).


note 2: From the historical point of view, 'ollin' is an interesting
re-interpretation.  Although it is normally written 'ollin' and
probably thought of as a noun, it is in fact the preterit form of
the verb 'o:li:ni', so the 'll' is an innovation not likely to have
come from native users of the language.


  acocilin     10
  capolin     102
  chacalin     17
  chamolin      7
  chapolin     46
  chipolin     11
  chiquimolin  18
  chopilin      4
  ci:tlalin    94
  cilin        14
  cuetzpalin   55
  cuezalin     47
  ma:tla:lin   60
  metolin      15
  ocuilin     176
  pipiyolin    12
  tamazolin    17
  temolin      16
  to:lin      429
  to:tolin    335
  tocuilin     12
  xohuilin     24
  xomalin      25
  za:yo:lin    63
  zo:to:lin    14

* * * * * * *

  a:xin        48
  cohuixin      2
  cui:xin       6
  hua:xin       9
  huixachin    11
  huixin        2
  ma:pachin     3
  mexixin      13
  michin      314
  quimichin    92
  tapayaxin     7




_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From campbel at indiana.edu  Mon Jun 14 04:35:57 2010
From: campbel at indiana.edu (Campbell, R. Joe)
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2010 00:35:57 -0400
Subject: Citlalin vs. Citlalli
In-Reply-To: <20100613162846.d244joun4kc0kw84@webmail.iu.edu>
Message-ID: <MON.14.JUN.2010.003557.0400.CAMPBEL@INDIANA.EDU>

I received a helpful notice from a colleague calling my attention to 
the fact that the sub-list below omitted the morpheme 'to:chin'.  Here 
is the amended list and thanks to watchful eyes and reflective thinking:


* * * * * * *
>
>  a:xin        48
>  cohuixin      2
>  cui:xin       6
>  hua:xin       9
>  huixachin    11
>  huixin        2
>  ma:pachin     3
>  mexixin      13
>  michin      314
>  quimichin    92
>  tapayaxin     7
>  to:chin     260   ***
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>



_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From idiez at mac.com  Sat Jun 19 14:08:33 2010
From: idiez at mac.com (John Sullivan)
Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2010 09:08:33 -0500
Subject: 2010 Yale Summer Nahuatl materials
Message-ID: <SAT.19.JUN.2010.090833.0500.IDIEZ@MAC.COM>

Piyali listeros,
	Please feel free to go to http://public.me.com/idiez  and download the course materials we will be using for the Modern Huastecan Nahuatl component of the 2010 Yale Nahuatl Summer Language Institute in Zacatecas, Mexico. There is a beginners workbook, an intermediate workbook and a combined introductory grammar and basic vocabulary. These are works in progress, so any comments, criticisms and heads-up regarding errors, misspellings, etc., are appreciated.
Provecho,
John

John Sullivan, Ph.D.
Professor of Nahua language and culture
Universidad Autónoma de Zacatecas
Zacatecas Institute of Teaching and Research in Ethnology
Tacuba 152, int. 43
Centro Histórico
Zacatecas, Zac. 98000
Mexico
Work: +52 (492) 925-3415
Fax: +1 (858) 724-3030 (U.S.A.)
Home: +52 (492) 768-6048
Mobile: +52 1 (492) 103-0195
idiez at me.com
www.macehualli.org

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/nahuat-l/attachments/20100619/f04207fd/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl

From b.leeming at rivers.org  Wed Jun 30 13:56:58 2010
From: b.leeming at rivers.org (Leeming, Ben)
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 09:56:58 -0400
Subject: Huitzilopochtli
Message-ID: <WED.30.JUN.2010.095658.0400.B.LEEMING@RIVERS.ORG>

Piyali listeros, here's an interesting one that has me scratching my head.

I just read the following in an article from the Woodburn (OR) Independent online:

WOODBURN - Woodburn's local Aztec dance group, Danza Azteca Huitzilopochtli, provided a feast for the senses in their performance at Library Park on June 24. The group's name, Huitzilopochtli, is a Nahuatl word meaning "strength of your will." (emphasis mine)

I can't for the life of me discern how "strength of your will" comes from Huitzilopochtli...  Any thoughts where this might have come from?

Here's the link:  http://www.woodburnindependent.com/news/2010/June/29/News.Briefs/local.aztec.dance.group.to.perform.june.24/news.aspx

Ben

Ben Leeming
Chair, History Department
The Rivers School
Weston, MA 02493
(781) 235-9300


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/nahuat-l/attachments/20100630/f6e2f08e/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl

From mmccaffe at indiana.edu  Wed Jun 30 14:07:39 2010
From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty)
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 10:07:39 -0400
Subject: Huitzilopochtli
In-Reply-To: <C850C56A.489F%b.leeming@rivers.org>
Message-ID: <WED.30.JUN.2010.100739.0400.MMCCAFFE@INDIANA.EDU>

Ben,

I haven't read the link (will later), but "strength of your will" is 
not what "Huitzilopochtli" means. You really never know what you're 
going to run into in res Aztecas.


:-)

Michael

Quoting "Leeming, Ben" <b.leeming at rivers.org>:

> Piyali listeros, here's an interesting one that has me scratching my head.
>
> I just read the following in an article from the Woodburn (OR)
> Independent online:
>
> WOODBURN - Woodburn's local Aztec dance group, Danza Azteca
> Huitzilopochtli, provided a feast for the senses in their performance
> at Library Park on June 24. The group's name, Huitzilopochtli, is a
> Nahuatl word meaning "strength of your will." (emphasis mine)
>
> I can't for the life of me discern how "strength of your will" comes
> from Huitzilopochtli...  Any thoughts where this might have come from?
>
> Here's the link:
> http://www.woodburnindependent.com/news/2010/June/29/News.Briefs/local.aztec.dance.group.to.perform.june.24/news.aspx
>
> Ben
>
> Ben Leeming
> Chair, History Department
> The Rivers School
> Weston, MA 02493
> (781) 235-9300
>
>
>



_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From a.appleyard at btinternet.com  Wed Jun 30 16:13:24 2010
From: a.appleyard at btinternet.com (ANTHONY APPLEYARD)
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 16:13:24 +0000
Subject: Huitzilopochtli
In-Reply-To: <C850C56A.489F%b.leeming@rivers.org>
Message-ID: <WED.30.JUN.2010.161324.0000.A.APPLEYARD@BTINTERNET.COM>

--- On Wed, 30/6/10, Leeming, Ben <b.leeming at rivers.org> wrote:
>  Piyali listeros, here’s an interesting one that has me scratching my head.  
>  I just read the following in an article from the Woodburn (OR) Independent online:
>   WOODBURN — Woodburn’s local Aztec dance group, Danza Azteca Huitzilopochtli,
> provided a feast for the senses in their performance at Library Park on June 24.
> The group’s name, Huitzilopochtli, is a Nahuatl word meaning “strength of your will.”
> (emphasis mine)
> I can’t for the life of me discern how “strength of your will” comes from Huitzilopochtli... 
> Any thoughts where this might have come from?
>  Here’s the link:  http://www.woodburnindependent.com/news/2010/June/29/News.Briefs/local.aztec.dance.group.to.perform.june.24/news.aspx

Random guesswork and writing whatever they like to advertize their group, likeliest.

Someone better write to them pointing out their error.

Citlalyani.

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/nahuat-l/attachments/20100630/f17633e9/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl

From david_becraft at hotmail.com  Wed Jun 30 19:42:09 2010
From: david_becraft at hotmail.com (pancho Becraft)
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 12:42:09 -0700
Subject: Huitzilopochtli
In-Reply-To: <20100630100739.9acc4q3eiow8848g@webmail.iu.edu>
Message-ID: <WED.30.JUN.2010.124209.0700.DAVIDBECRAFT@HOTMAIL.COM>


I have never heard that meaning either.  Could it be that they are applying a metaphoric meaning to the name.  After all, isn't Huitzilopochtli reputed to be the "god of war"?  And since he is the god of war, "strenght of your will" would make sense at least in that context?

 

tlashtlahui
 
> Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 10:07:39 -0400
> From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu
> To: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> Subject: Re: [Nahuat-l] Huitzilopochtli
> 
> 
> Ben,
> 
> I haven't read the link (will later), but "strength of your will" is 
> not what "Huitzilopochtli" means. You really never know what you're 
> going to run into in res Aztecas.
> 
> 
> :-)
> 
> Michael
> 
> Quoting "Leeming, Ben" <b.leeming at rivers.org>:
> 
> > Piyali listeros, here's an interesting one that has me scratching my head.
> >
> > I just read the following in an article from the Woodburn (OR)
> > Independent online:
> >
> > WOODBURN - Woodburn's local Aztec dance group, Danza Azteca
> > Huitzilopochtli, provided a feast for the senses in their performance
> > at Library Park on June 24. The group's name, Huitzilopochtli, is a
> > Nahuatl word meaning "strength of your will." (emphasis mine)
> >
> > I can't for the life of me discern how "strength of your will" comes
> > from Huitzilopochtli... Any thoughts where this might have come from?
> >
> > Here's the link:
> > http://www.woodburnindependent.com/news/2010/June/29/News.Briefs/local.aztec.dance.group.to.perform.june.24/news.aspx
> >
> > Ben
> >
> > Ben Leeming
> > Chair, History Department
> > The Rivers School
> > Weston, MA 02493
> > (781) 235-9300
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your inbox.
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_2
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/nahuat-l/attachments/20100630/48511813/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl

From magnuspharao at gmail.com  Tue Jun  1 19:11:08 2010
From: magnuspharao at gmail.com (Magnus Pharao Hansen)
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2010 21:11:08 +0200
Subject: Nahuatl Digest, Vol 179, Issue 1
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2.1275411601.11617.nahuatl@lists.famsi.org>
Message-ID: <TUE.1.JUN.2010.211108.0200.MAGNUSPHARAO@GMAIL.COM>

Dear Dr. Bassett

Mesoamerican languages do not generally have a distinction between blue and
green as the one found in european languages - this is also true for Nahuatl
- and matlalin could probably describe any dark hue in the blue/green end of
the specter. An excellent source to color references in Nahuatl and other
Mesoamerican langauges is Robert E MacLaury's Cdolor and COgnition in
Mesoamerica, therw you will be able to see schematic representations of the
basic color categories of several modern dialects of Nahuatl - most of which
have a single basic category  covering both green and blue colors.

Best regards

Magnus Pharao Hansen

On 1 June 2010 19:00, <nahuatl-request at lists.famsi.org> wrote:

> Send Nahuatl mailing list submissions to
>        nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>        http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>        nahuatl-request at lists.famsi.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>        nahuatl-owner at lists.famsi.org
>
> When replying, please change the Subject line of your email to match
> the exact topic being discussed, and delete all but the most important
> text from previous messages.
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. matlalin - blue, green, blue-green? (Molly Bassett)
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Molly Bassett <mbassett at gsu.edu>
> To: "Nahuat-l (messages)" <nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>
> Date: Mon, 31 May 2010 14:01:04 -0400
> Subject: [Nahuat-l] matlalin - blue, green, blue-green?
> Hi, all.
>
> I'm working on a piece dealing with the significance of colors in
> precontact Central Mexican religious contexts, and I have a question about
> the meaning of ma:tla:lin.
>
> Frances Karttunen follows Molina in defining matlalin as ?the color dark
> green?:  ?This is attested in Z in matlalzahuatl (literally ?green pox?) and
> possibly in Matlalpan, although the sense of the latter would be obcure from
> this gloss, which appears to have something to do with lowness of sature.
> Conceivably it is derived instead from tlalpan ?on the ground'" (139).
>
> But Dibble & Anderson translate matlalin as ?blue? in the *Florentine*,
> which notes that "its name comes from nowhere.  It is the blossom of an
> herb, a blossom.  This matlalin is blue and a little herb-green.  It is very
> sound, firm, good, of good appearance, fresh green.  It is fresh green, very
> resh green. . . . / acan quizqui in itoca, xihuitl ixochyo, xochitl: inin
> matlali texotic, ihuan achi quiltic, cenca ixtlapalhui, ixchicactic, cualli,
> cualnezqui, celic, celic, celpatic. . . ." (11: 240).
>
> The Badianus Ms. cites matlalxochitl (presumably the xochitl referred to in
> the Florentine?) as an element in a treatment for "heat" in the eyes (pl.
> 14, p. 218).  The footnote for matlalxochitl glosses the term as "blue
> flower" identifies the plant as "the dayflower, Commelina, of which a number
> of species are found on the Mexican plateau.  A native variant Nahuatl name
> for it is matlaliztic.  Hern?ndez refers to several varieties of
> matlalxochitl (pp. 383-4), but none of the illustrations resembles
> Commelina; thus the name must have been applied to several flowers of blue
> color" (219-20).
>
> So, two of these three sources relate matlalin to blue; I haven't followed
> up on Hern?ndez yet.  Are there other places I should look for more
> information on matlalin as blue or green?  I realize that blue-green
> functioned as a range or spectrum in precontact Mesoamerica, but the
> discrepancy among these sources has piqued my curiosity.
>
> Thanks,
> Molly
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Molly H. Bassett
> Assistant Professor, Mesoamerican Religions and Indigenous Traditions
> Department of Religious Studies
> Georgia State University
> 1137 34 Peachtree Street NW
> Atlanta, GA 30302
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/nahuat-l/attachments/20100601/514ac87b/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl

From vazquezdiaz at aol.com  Tue Jun  1 19:25:35 2010
From: vazquezdiaz at aol.com (vazquezdiaz at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2010 15:25:35 -0400
Subject: Nahuatl Digest, Vol 179, Issue 1
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3.1275411601.11617.nahuatl@lists.famsi.org>
Message-ID: <TUE.1.JUN.2010.152535.0400.>


 

 


 Please help me out with the meaning of the word  TLALCOSAHUA



 

-----Original Message-----
From: nahuatl-request at lists.famsi.org
To: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
Sent: Tue, Jun 1, 2010 10:00 am
Subject: Nahuatl Digest, Vol 179, Issue 1


Send Nahuatl mailing list submissions to
    nahuatl at lists.famsi.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
    http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
    nahuatl-request at lists.famsi.org

You can reach the person managing the list at
    nahuatl-owner at lists.famsi.org

When replying, please change the Subject line of your email to match
the exact topic being discussed, and delete all but the most important
text from previous messages.


Today's Topics:

   1. matlalin - blue, green, blue-green? (Molly Bassett)


--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 31 May 2010 14:01:04 -0400
From: Molly Bassett <mbassett at gsu.edu>
Subject: [Nahuat-l] matlalin - blue, green, blue-green?
To: "Nahuat-l (messages)" <nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>
Message-ID: <E5EA57AC-5330-4020-B31D-B057AE08E470 at gsu.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"

Hi, all.

I'm working on a piece dealing with the significance of colors in  
precontact Central Mexican religious contexts, and I have a question  
about the meaning of ma:tla:lin.

Frances Karttunen follows Molina in defining matlalin as ?the color  
dark green?:  ?This is attested in Z in matlalzahuatl (literally  
?green pox?) and possibly in Matlalpan, although the sense of the  
latter would be obcure from this gloss, which appears to have  
something to do with lowness of sature.  Conceivably it is derived  
instead from tlalpan ?on the ground'" (139).

But Dibble & Anderson translate matlalin as ?blue? in the Florentine,  
which notes that "its name comes from nowhere.  It is the blossom of  
an herb, a blossom.  This matlalin is blue and a little herb-green.   
It is very sound, firm, good, of good appearance, fresh green.  It is  
fresh green, very resh green. . . . / acan quizqui in itoca, xihuitl  
ixochyo, xochitl: inin matlali texotic, ihuan achi quiltic, cenca  
ixtlapalhui, ixchicactic, cualli, cualnezqui, celic, celic,  
celpatic. . . ." (11: 240).

The Badianus Ms. cites matlalxochitl (presumably the xochitl referred  
to in the Florentine?) as an element in a treatment for "heat" in the  
eyes (pl. 14, p. 218).  The footnote for matlalxochitl glosses the  
term as "blue flower" identifies the plant as "the dayflower,  
Commelina, of which a number of species are found on the Mexican  
plateau.  A native variant Nahuatl name for it is matlaliztic.   
Hern?ndez refers to several varieties of matlalxochitl (pp. 383-4),  
but none of the illustrations resembles Commelina; thus the name must  
have been applied to several flowers of blue color" (219-20).

So, two of these three sources relate matlalin to blue; I haven't  
followed up on Hern?ndez yet.  Are there other places I should look  
for more information on matlalin as blue or green?  I realize that  
blue-green functioned as a range or spectrum in precontact  
Mesoamerica, but the discrepancy among these sources has piqued my  
curiosity.

Thanks,
Molly

----------------------------------------------------------
Molly H. Bassett
Assistant Professor, Mesoamerican Religions and Indigenous Traditions
Department of Religious Studies
Georgia State University
1137 34 Peachtree Street NW
Atlanta, GA 30302

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.famsi.org/pipermail/nahuatl/attachments/20100531/0371f210/attachment-0001.htm 


--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**

_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


End of Nahuatl Digest, Vol 179, Issue 1
***************************************

 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/nahuat-l/attachments/20100601/3de67a02/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl

From mmccaffe at indiana.edu  Tue Jun  1 20:10:41 2010
From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty)
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2010 16:10:41 -0400
Subject: Nahuatl Digest, Vol 179, Issue 1
In-Reply-To: <28420_1275422101_o51JswxL000944_8CCCFD758436403-2054-170F@webmail-d043.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.1.JUN.2010.161041.0400.MMCCAFFE@INDIANA.EDU>

Quoting vazquezdiaz at aol.com:

>
>
>
>
>
>
> Please help me out with the meaning of the word  TLALCOSAHUA
>
>


Sounds like 'earth-ferret-haver'

tla:l-co:zah-huah

someone who has/owns an 'earth-ferret'...whatever that is. :-)

Michael


>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nahuatl-request at lists.famsi.org
> To: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> Sent: Tue, Jun 1, 2010 10:00 am
> Subject: Nahuatl Digest, Vol 179, Issue 1
>
>
> Send Nahuatl mailing list submissions to
>    nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>    http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>    nahuatl-request at lists.famsi.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>    nahuatl-owner at lists.famsi.org
>
> When replying, please change the Subject line of your email to match
> the exact topic being discussed, and delete all but the most important
> text from previous messages.
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. matlalin - blue, green, blue-green? (Molly Bassett)
>
>
> --**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 31 May 2010 14:01:04 -0400
> From: Molly Bassett <mbassett at gsu.edu>
> Subject: [Nahuat-l] matlalin - blue, green, blue-green?
> To: "Nahuat-l (messages)" <nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>
> Message-ID: <E5EA57AC-5330-4020-B31D-B057AE08E470 at gsu.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>
> Hi, all.
>
> I'm working on a piece dealing with the significance of colors in
> precontact Central Mexican religious contexts, and I have a question
> about the meaning of ma:tla:lin.
>
> Frances Karttunen follows Molina in defining matlalin as ?the color
> dark green?:  ?This is attested in Z in matlalzahuatl (literally
> ?green pox?) and possibly in Matlalpan, although the sense of the
> latter would be obcure from this gloss, which appears to have
> something to do with lowness of sature.  Conceivably it is derived
> instead from tlalpan ?on the ground'" (139).
>
> But Dibble & Anderson translate matlalin as ?blue? in the Florentine,
> which notes that "its name comes from nowhere.  It is the blossom of
> an herb, a blossom.  This matlalin is blue and a little herb-green.
> It is very sound, firm, good, of good appearance, fresh green.  It is
> fresh green, very resh green. . . . / acan quizqui in itoca, xihuitl
> ixochyo, xochitl: inin matlali texotic, ihuan achi quiltic, cenca
> ixtlapalhui, ixchicactic, cualli, cualnezqui, celic, celic,
> celpatic. . . ." (11: 240).
>
> The Badianus Ms. cites matlalxochitl (presumably the xochitl referred
> to in the Florentine?) as an element in a treatment for "heat" in the
> eyes (pl. 14, p. 218).  The footnote for matlalxochitl glosses the
> term as "blue flower" identifies the plant as "the dayflower,
> Commelina, of which a number of species are found on the Mexican
> plateau.  A native variant Nahuatl name for it is matlaliztic.
> Hern?ndez refers to several varieties of matlalxochitl (pp. 383-4),
> but none of the illustrations resembles Commelina; thus the name must
> have been applied to several flowers of blue color" (219-20).
>
> So, two of these three sources relate matlalin to blue; I haven't
> followed up on Hern?ndez yet.  Are there other places I should look
> for more information on matlalin as blue or green?  I realize that
> blue-green functioned as a range or spectrum in precontact
> Mesoamerica, but the discrepancy among these sources has piqued my
> curiosity.
>
> Thanks,
> Molly
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Molly H. Bassett
> Assistant Professor, Mesoamerican Religions and Indigenous Traditions
> Department of Religious Studies
> Georgia State University
> 1137 34 Peachtree Street NW
> Atlanta, GA 30302
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:
> http://www.famsi.org/pipermail/nahuatl/attachments/20100531/0371f210/attachment-0001.htm
>
>
> --**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>
>
> End of Nahuatl Digest, Vol 179, Issue 1
> ***************************************
>
>
>



_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From b.leeming at rivers.org  Wed Jun  2 00:50:14 2010
From: b.leeming at rivers.org (Leeming, Ben)
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2010 20:50:14 -0400
Subject: Nahuatl Digest, Vol 179, Issue 1
In-Reply-To: <20100601161041.hdtnc2eescsswswk@webmail.iu.edu>
Message-ID: <TUE.1.JUN.2010.205014.0400.B.LEEMING@RIVERS.ORG>

A couple of ideas from the New England contingent:

I definitely agree that "sa" is really "za".  Initially I was thinking "zahua" as in "to fast"...but then the "tlalco" doesn't quite work.  I started working with Michael's "-huah" (preterit agentive noun of possession suffix) and then may have hit on something.  What if that "coz" or even "coza" has to do with "yellow", and "tlalcozahua" is something like "owner of yellow earth"?  But there's that "a" after "coz"...

There's also the "coz" of "co:ztli" (necklace).  The original post's author didn't indicate vowel length so this might be possible.  But then there's that "a" of "coza" again...  I did find "cozahuiya" (to turn yellow).  Could this shorten to give us "coza"?

How about this?  Karttunen has an entry for "cozehua" which she defines as "to make something turn yellow" (which supports my "coztic" theory).  Perhaps "tlalcozahua" is really "tlalcozehua" and means "to make (the) earth turn yellow".

I guess I would ask the original post's author for some context.  What is the source? Can you give us some more of the passage?  Is there any hint at vowel length?

What do others think?

Ben

Ben Leeming
Chair, History Department
The Rivers School
Weston, MA 02493
(781) 235-9300




On 6/1/10 4:10 PM, "Michael McCafferty" <mmccaffe at indiana.edu> wrote:

Quoting vazquezdiaz at aol.com:

>
>
>
>
>
>
> Please help me out with the meaning of the word  TLALCOSAHUA
>
>


Sounds like 'earth-ferret-haver'

tla:l-co:zah-huah

someone who has/owns an 'earth-ferret'...whatever that is. :-)

Michael




________________________________
Sample disclaimer text
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/nahuat-l/attachments/20100601/9420c9cc/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl

From mmccaffe at indiana.edu  Wed Jun  2 01:00:46 2010
From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty)
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2010 21:00:46 -0400
Subject: Nahuatl Digest, Vol 179, Issue 1
In-Reply-To: <C82B2306.45DE%b.leeming@rivers.org>
Message-ID: <TUE.1.JUN.2010.210046.0400.MMCCAFFE@INDIANA.EDU>

la localidad de Tlalcosahua est? situado en el Municipio de Huej?car 
(en el Estado de Jalisco).

de PueblosAmerica.com


uoting "Leeming, Ben" <b.leeming at rivers.org>:

> A couple of ideas from the New England contingent:
>
> I definitely agree that "sa" is really "za".  Initially I was
> thinking "zahua" as in "to fast"...but then the "tlalco" doesn't
> quite work.  I started working with Michael's "-huah" (preterit
> agentive noun of possession suffix) and then may have hit on
> something.  What if that "coz" or even "coza" has to do with
> "yellow", and "tlalcozahua" is something like "owner of yellow
> earth"?  But there's that "a" after "coz"...
>
> There's also the "coz" of "co:ztli" (necklace).  The original post's
> author didn't indicate vowel length so this might be possible.  But
> then there's that "a" of "coza" again...  I did find "cozahuiya" (to
> turn yellow).  Could this shorten to give us "coza"?
>
> How about this?  Karttunen has an entry for "cozehua" which she
> defines as "to make something turn yellow" (which supports my
> "coztic" theory).  Perhaps "tlalcozahua" is really "tlalcozehua" and
> means "to make (the) earth turn yellow".
>
> I guess I would ask the original post's author for some context.
> What is the source? Can you give us some more of the passage?  Is
> there any hint at vowel length?
>
> What do others think?
>
> Ben
>
> Ben Leeming
> Chair, History Department
> The Rivers School
> Weston, MA 02493
> (781) 235-9300
>
>
>
>
> On 6/1/10 4:10 PM, "Michael McCafferty" <mmccaffe at indiana.edu> wrote:
>
> Quoting vazquezdiaz at aol.com:
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Please help me out with the meaning of the word  TLALCOSAHUA
>>
>>
>
>
> Sounds like 'earth-ferret-haver'
>
> tla:l-co:zah-huah
>
> someone who has/owns an 'earth-ferret'...whatever that is. :-)
>
> Michael
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> Sample disclaimer text
>




_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From b.leeming at rivers.org  Wed Jun  2 01:23:56 2010
From: b.leeming at rivers.org (Leeming, Ben)
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2010 21:23:56 -0400
Subject: Nahuatl Digest, Vol 179, Issue 1
In-Reply-To: <20100601210046.1u67xfypkwk0gw8o@webmail.iu.edu>
Message-ID: <TUE.1.JUN.2010.212356.0400.B.LEEMING@RIVERS.ORG>

Ok. But what does Tlalcosahua mean?

I'm curious to hear John Sullivan's two cents.  John?

Ben


On 6/1/10 9:00 PM, "Michael McCafferty" <mmccaffe at indiana.edu> wrote:

la localidad de Tlalcosahua est? situado en el Municipio de Huej?car
(en el Estado de Jalisco).

de PueblosAmerica.com


uoting "Leeming, Ben" <b.leeming at rivers.org>:

> A couple of ideas from the New England contingent:
>
> I definitely agree that "sa" is really "za".  Initially I was
> thinking "zahua" as in "to fast"...but then the "tlalco" doesn't
> quite work.  I started working with Michael's "-huah" (preterit
> agentive noun of possession suffix) and then may have hit on
> something.  What if that "coz" or even "coza" has to do with
> "yellow", and "tlalcozahua" is something like "owner of yellow
> earth"?  But there's that "a" after "coz"...
>
> There's also the "coz" of "co:ztli" (necklace).  The original post's
> author didn't indicate vowel length so this might be possible.  But
> then there's that "a" of "coza" again...  I did find "cozahuiya" (to
> turn yellow).  Could this shorten to give us "coza"?
>
> How about this?  Karttunen has an entry for "cozehua" which she
> defines as "to make something turn yellow" (which supports my
> "coztic" theory).  Perhaps "tlalcozahua" is really "tlalcozehua" and
> means "to make (the) earth turn yellow".
>
> I guess I would ask the original post's author for some context.
> What is the source? Can you give us some more of the passage?  Is
> there any hint at vowel length?
>
> What do others think?
>
> Ben
>
> Ben Leeming
> Chair, History Department
> The Rivers School
> Weston, MA 02493
> (781) 235-9300
>
>
>
>
> On 6/1/10 4:10 PM, "Michael McCafferty" <mmccaffe at indiana.edu> wrote:
>
> Quoting vazquezdiaz at aol.com:
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Please help me out with the meaning of the word  TLALCOSAHUA
>>
>>
>
>
> Sounds like 'earth-ferret-haver'
>
> tla:l-co:zah-huah
>
> someone who has/owns an 'earth-ferret'...whatever that is. :-)
>
> Michael
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> Sample disclaimer text
>





________________________________
Sample disclaimer text
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/nahuat-l/attachments/20100601/f6022621/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl

From t_amaya at megared.net.mx  Wed Jun  2 02:34:41 2010
From: t_amaya at megared.net.mx (Tomas Amaya)
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2010 21:34:41 -0500
Subject: Nahuatl Digest, Vol 179, Issue 1
In-Reply-To: <8CCCFD758436403-2054-170F@webmail-d043.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.1.JUN.2010.213441.0500.TAMAYA@MEGARED.NET.MX>

Tocnihuane'

 

Once again a contribution from nahuat of Cuetzalan. 

 

1.       Cozahua' is a verbal particle related to "getting yellow"

2.       Cozahuac means "yellowish"

3.       Firs meaning: talcozahua' (NC=tlalcozahua') => earth that is
getting yellow

4.       Second meaning: talcozahuac (NC=  tlalcozahuac) => earth that is
yellowish

5.       Examples that may aid to understand it: Huitzil-opochtli =
hummingbird that is left-handed; Cuauh-temoc = Eagle that has descendet;
tezcatli-poca = mirror that smokes. 

 

Niamechyoltlapalohua. 

 

Tomas Amaya

 

De: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org [mailto:nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org]
En nombre de vazquezdiaz at aol.com
Enviado el: Martes, 01 de Junio de 2010 02:26 p.m.
Para: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
Asunto: Re: [Nahuat-l] Nahuatl Digest, Vol 179, Issue 1

 

 

 

Please help me out with the meaning of the word  TLALCOSAHUA



 

-----Original Message-----
From: nahuatl-request at lists.famsi.org
To: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
Sent: Tue, Jun 1, 2010 10:00 am
Subject: Nahuatl Digest, Vol 179, Issue 1

Send Nahuatl mailing list submissions to






    nahuatl at lists.famsi.org













To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit






    http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl






or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to






    nahuatl-request at lists.famsi.org













You can reach the person managing the list at






    nahuatl-owner at lists.famsi.org













When replying, please change the Subject line of your email to match






the exact topic being discussed, and delete all but the most important






text from previous messages.




















Today's Topics:













   1. matlalin - blue, green, blue-green? (Molly Bassett)




















--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**
--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**
--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**
--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**













Message: 1






Date: Mon, 31 May 2010 14:01:04 -0400






From: Molly Bassett <mbassett at gsu.edu>






Subject: [Nahuat-l] matlalin - blue, green, blue-green?






To: "Nahuat-l (messages)" <nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>






Message-ID: <E5EA57AC-5330-4020-B31D-B057AE08E470 at gsu.edu>






Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"













Hi, all.













I'm working on a piece dealing with the significance of colors in  






precontact Central Mexican religious contexts, and I have a question  






about the meaning of ma:tla:lin.













Frances Karttunen follows Molina in defining matlalin as ?the color  






dark green?:  ?This is attested in Z in matlalzahuatl (literally  






?green pox?) and possibly in Matlalpan, although the sense of the  






latter would be obcure from this gloss, which appears to have  






something to do with lowness of sature.  Conceivably it is derived  






instead from tlalpan ?on the ground'" (139).













But Dibble & Anderson translate matlalin as ?blue? in the Florentine,  






which notes that "its name comes from nowhere.  It is the blossom of  






an herb, a blossom.  This matlalin is blue and a little herb-green.   






It is very sound, firm, good, of good appearance, fresh green.  It is  






fresh green, very resh green. . . . / acan quizqui in itoca, xihuitl  






ixochyo, xochitl: inin matlali texotic, ihuan achi quiltic, cenca  






ixtlapalhui, ixchicactic, cualli, cualnezqui, celic, celic,  






celpatic. . . ." (11: 240).













The Badianus Ms. cites matlalxochitl (presumably the xochitl referred  






to in the Florentine?) as an element in a treatment for "heat" in the  






eyes (pl. 14, p. 218).  The footnote for matlalxochitl glosses the  






term as "blue flower" identifies the plant as "the dayflower,  






Commelina, of which a number of species are found on the Mexican  






plateau.  A native variant Nahuatl name for it is matlaliztic.   






Hern?ndez refers to several varieties of matlalxochitl (pp. 383-4),  






but none of the illustrations resembles Commelina; thus the name must  






have been applied to several flowers of blue color" (219-20).













So, two of these three sources relate matlalin to blue; I haven't  






followed up on Hern?ndez yet.  Are there other places I should look  






for more information on matlalin as blue or green?  I realize that  






blue-green functioned as a range or spectrum in precontact  






Mesoamerica, but the discrepancy among these sources has piqued my  






curiosity.













Thanks,






Molly













----------------------------------------------------------






Molly H. Bassett






Assistant Professor, Mesoamerican Religions and Indigenous Traditions






Department of Religious Studies






Georgia State University






1137 34 Peachtree Street NW






Atlanta, GA 30302













-------------- next part --------------






An HTML attachment was scrubbed...






URL:
http://www.famsi.org/pipermail/nahuatl/attachments/20100531/0371f210/attachm
ent-0001.htm 




















--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**
--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**













_______________________________________________






Nahuatl mailing list






Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org






http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl




















End of Nahuatl Digest, Vol 179, Issue 1






***************************************






-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/nahuat-l/attachments/20100601/ab173ac7/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl

From vazquezdiaz at aol.com  Wed Jun  2 15:07:05 2010
From: vazquezdiaz at aol.com (vazquezdiaz at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2010 11:07:05 -0400
Subject: significado de tlalcosahua
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1784.1275480392.2703.nahuatl@lists.famsi.org>
Message-ID: <WED.2.JUN.2010.110705.0400.>


 Tlalcosahua is a small village in the state of Jalisco.  It is located in the Huejucar muncipality.

It has about 650 habitants and it is almost a thousand years old.

Prior to the arrival of the the Spaniards Tlalcosahua was there.

 It has been interpreted as THE PLACE WHERE THE WATER TWIST
SITIO DONDE EL AGUA SERPENTEA..

THERE IS NO EXPLANATION OF THE MAKE UP OF THE WORD

AND THAT IS WHAT I AM TRYING TO OBTAIN.

PLEASE DO HELP.

 


 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: nahuatl-request at lists.famsi.org
To: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
Sent: Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:06 am
Subject: Nahuatl Digest, Vol 179, Issue 3


Send Nahuatl mailing list submissions to
    nahuatl at lists.famsi.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
    http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
    nahuatl-request at lists.famsi.org

You can reach the person managing the list at
    nahuatl-owner at lists.famsi.org

When replying, please change the Subject line of your email to match
the exact topic being discussed, and delete all but the most important
text from previous messages.


Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Nahuatl Digest, Vol 179, Issue 1 (Leeming, Ben)
   2. Re: Nahuatl Digest, Vol 179, Issue 1 (Michael McCafferty)
   3. Re: Nahuatl Digest, Vol 179, Issue 1 (Leeming, Ben)
   4. Re: Nahuatl Digest, Vol 179, Issue 1 (Tomas Amaya)


--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2010 20:50:14 -0400
From: "Leeming, Ben" <b.leeming at rivers.org>
Subject: Re: [Nahuat-l] Nahuatl Digest, Vol 179, Issue 1
To: Michael McCafferty <mmccaffe at indiana.edu>, "vazquezdiaz at aol.com"
    <vazquezdiaz at aol.com>
Cc: "nahuatl at lists.famsi.org" <nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>
Message-ID: <C82B2306.45DE%b.leeming at rivers.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

A couple of ideas from the New England contingent:

I definitely agree that "sa" is really "za".  Initially I was thinking "zahua" 
as in "to fast"...but then the "tlalco" doesn't quite work.  I started working 
with Michael's "-huah" (preterit agentive noun of possession suffix) and then 
may have hit on something.  What if that "coz" or even "coza" has to do with 
"yellow", and "tlalcozahua" is something like "owner of yellow earth"?  But 
there's that "a" after "coz"...

There's also the "coz" of "co:ztli" (necklace).  The original post's author 
didn't indicate vowel length so this might be possible.  But then there's that 
"a" of "coza" again...  I did find "cozahuiya" (to turn yellow).  Could this 
shorten to give us "coza"?

How about this?  Karttunen has an entry for "cozehua" which she defines as "to 
make something turn yellow" (which supports my "coztic" theory).  Perhaps 
"tlalcozahua" is really "tlalcozehua" and means "to make (the) earth turn 
yellow".

I guess I would ask the original post's author for some context.  What is the 
source? Can you give us some more of the passage?  Is there any hint at vowel 
length?

What do others think?

Ben

Ben Leeming
Chair, History Department
The Rivers School
Weston, MA 02493
(781) 235-9300




On 6/1/10 4:10 PM, "Michael McCafferty" <mmccaffe at indiana.edu> wrote:

Quoting vazquezdiaz at aol.com:

>
>
>
>
>
>
> Please help me out with the meaning of the word  TLALCOSAHUA
>
>


Sounds like 'earth-ferret-haver'

tla:l-co:zah-huah

someone who has/owns an 'earth-ferret'...whatever that is. :-)

Michael




________________________________
Sample disclaimer text
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.famsi.org/pipermail/nahuatl/attachments/20100601/97f15146/attachment-0001.htm 


--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**

Message: 2
Date: Tue,  1 Jun 2010 21:00:46 -0400
From: Michael McCafferty <mmccaffe at indiana.edu>
Subject: Re: [Nahuat-l] Nahuatl Digest, Vol 179, Issue 1
To: "Leeming, Ben" <b.leeming at rivers.org>
Cc: "nahuatl at lists.famsi.org" <nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>,
    "vazquezdiaz at aol.com" <vazquezdiaz at aol.com>
Message-ID: <20100601210046.1u67xfypkwk0gw8o at webmail.iu.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain;   charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed"

la localidad de Tlalcosahua est? situado en el Municipio de Huej?car 
(en el Estado de Jalisco).

de PueblosAmerica.com


uoting "Leeming, Ben" <b.leeming at rivers.org>:

> A couple of ideas from the New England contingent:
>
> I definitely agree that "sa" is really "za".  Initially I was
> thinking "zahua" as in "to fast"...but then the "tlalco" doesn't
> quite work.  I started working with Michael's "-huah" (preterit
> agentive noun of possession suffix) and then may have hit on
> something.  What if that "coz" or even "coza" has to do with
> "yellow", and "tlalcozahua" is something like "owner of yellow
> earth"?  But there's that "a" after "coz"...
>
> There's also the "coz" of "co:ztli" (necklace).  The original post's
> author didn't indicate vowel length so this might be possible.  But
> then there's that "a" of "coza" again...  I did find "cozahuiya" (to
> turn yellow).  Could this shorten to give us "coza"?
>
> How about this?  Karttunen has an entry for "cozehua" which she
> defines as "to make something turn yellow" (which supports my
> "coztic" theory).  Perhaps "tlalcozahua" is really "tlalcozehua" and
> means "to make (the) earth turn yellow".
>
> I guess I would ask the original post's author for some context.
> What is the source? Can you give us some more of the passage?  Is
> there any hint at vowel length?
>
> What do others think?
>
> Ben
>
> Ben Leeming
> Chair, History Department
> The Rivers School
> Weston, MA 02493
> (781) 235-9300
>
>
>
>
> On 6/1/10 4:10 PM, "Michael McCafferty" <mmccaffe at indiana.edu> wrote:
>
> Quoting vazquezdiaz at aol.com:
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Please help me out with the meaning of the word  TLALCOSAHUA
>>
>>
>
>
> Sounds like 'earth-ferret-haver'
>
> tla:l-co:zah-huah
>
> someone who has/owns an 'earth-ferret'...whatever that is. :-)
>
> Michael
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> Sample disclaimer text
>






--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**

Message: 3
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2010 21:23:56 -0400
From: "Leeming, Ben" <b.leeming at rivers.org>
Subject: Re: [Nahuat-l] Nahuatl Digest, Vol 179, Issue 1
To: Michael McCafferty <mmccaffe at indiana.edu>
Cc: "nahuatl at lists.famsi.org" <nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>,
    "vazquezdiaz at aol.com" <vazquezdiaz at aol.com>
Message-ID: <C82B2AEC.45E3%b.leeming at rivers.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Ok. But what does Tlalcosahua mean?

I'm curious to hear John Sullivan's two cents.  John?

Ben


On 6/1/10 9:00 PM, "Michael McCafferty" <mmccaffe at indiana.edu> wrote:

la localidad de Tlalcosahua est? situado en el Municipio de Huej?car
(en el Estado de Jalisco).

de PueblosAmerica.com


uoting "Leeming, Ben" <b.leeming at rivers.org>:

> A couple of ideas from the New England contingent:
>
> I definitely agree that "sa" is really "za".  Initially I was
> thinking "zahua" as in "to fast"...but then the "tlalco" doesn't
> quite work.  I started working with Michael's "-huah" (preterit
> agentive noun of possession suffix) and then may have hit on
> something.  What if that "coz" or even "coza" has to do with
> "yellow", and "tlalcozahua" is something like "owner of yellow
> earth"?  But there's that "a" after "coz"...
>
> There's also the "coz" of "co:ztli" (necklace).  The original post's
> author didn't indicate vowel length so this might be possible.  But
> then there's that "a" of "coza" again...  I did find "cozahuiya" (to
> turn yellow).  Could this shorten to give us "coza"?
>
> How about this?  Karttunen has an entry for "cozehua" which she
> defines as "to make something turn yellow" (which supports my
> "coztic" theory).  Perhaps "tlalcozahua" is really "tlalcozehua" and
> means "to make (the) earth turn yellow".
>
> I guess I would ask the original post's author for some context.
> What is the source? Can you give us some more of the passage?  Is
> there any hint at vowel length?
>
> What do others think?
>
> Ben
>
> Ben Leeming
> Chair, History Department
> The Rivers School
> Weston, MA 02493
> (781) 235-9300
>
>
>
>
> On 6/1/10 4:10 PM, "Michael McCafferty" <mmccaffe at indiana.edu> wrote:
>
> Quoting vazquezdiaz at aol.com:
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Please help me out with the meaning of the word  TLALCOSAHUA
>>
>>
>
>
> Sounds like 'earth-ferret-haver'
>
> tla:l-co:zah-huah
>
> someone who has/owns an 'earth-ferret'...whatever that is. :-)
>
> Michael
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> Sample disclaimer text
>





________________________________
Sample disclaimer text
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.famsi.org/pipermail/nahuatl/attachments/20100601/b0ac0774/attachment-0001.htm 


--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**

Message: 4
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2010 21:34:41 -0500
From: "Tomas Amaya" <t_amaya at megared.net.mx>
Subject: Re: [Nahuat-l] Nahuatl Digest, Vol 179, Issue 1
To: <vazquezdiaz at aol.com>, <nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>
Message-ID: <002401cb01fc$27890a70$769b1f50$@net.mx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Tocnihuane'

 

Once again a contribution from nahuat of Cuetzalan. 

 

1.       Cozahua' is a verbal particle related to "getting yellow"

2.       Cozahuac means "yellowish"

3.       Firs meaning: talcozahua' (NC=tlalcozahua') => earth that is
getting yellow

4.       Second meaning: talcozahuac (NC=  tlalcozahuac) => earth that is
yellowish

5.       Examples that may aid to understand it: Huitzil-opochtli =
hummingbird that is left-handed; Cuauh-temoc = Eagle that has descendet;
tezcatli-poca = mirror that smokes. 

 

Niamechyoltlapalohua. 

 

Tomas Amaya

 

De: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org [mailto:nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org]
En nombre de vazquezdiaz at aol.com
Enviado el: Martes, 01 de Junio de 2010 02:26 p.m.
Para: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
Asunto: Re: [Nahuat-l] Nahuatl Digest, Vol 179, Issue 1

 

 

 

Please help me out with the meaning of the word  TLALCOSAHUA



 

-----Original Message-----
From: nahuatl-request at lists.famsi.org
To: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
Sent: Tue, Jun 1, 2010 10:00 am
Subject: Nahuatl Digest, Vol 179, Issue 1

Send Nahuatl mailing list submissions to






    nahuatl at lists.famsi.org













To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit






    http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl






or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to






    nahuatl-request at lists.famsi.org













You can reach the person managing the list at






    nahuatl-owner at lists.famsi.org













When replying, please change the Subject line of your email to match






the exact topic being discussed, and delete all but the most important






text from previous messages.




















Today's Topics:













   1. matlalin - blue, green, blue-green? (Molly Bassett)




















--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**
--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**
--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**
--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**













Message: 1






Date: Mon, 31 May 2010 14:01:04 -0400






From: Molly Bassett <mbassett at gsu.edu>






Subject: [Nahuat-l] matlalin - blue, green, blue-green?






To: "Nahuat-l (messages)" <nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>






Message-ID: <E5EA57AC-5330-4020-B31D-B057AE08E470 at gsu.edu>






Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"













Hi, all.













I'm working on a piece dealing with the significance of colors in  






precontact Central Mexican religious contexts, and I have a question  






about the meaning of ma:tla:lin.













Frances Karttunen follows Molina in defining matlalin as ?the color  






dark green?:  ?This is attested in Z in matlalzahuatl (literally  






?green pox?) and possibly in Matlalpan, although the sense of the  






latter would be obcure from this gloss, which appears to have  






something to do with lowness of sature.  Conceivably it is derived  






instead from tlalpan ?on the ground'" (139).













But Dibble & Anderson translate matlalin as ?blue? in the Florentine,  






which notes that "its name comes from nowhere.  It is the blossom of  






an herb, a blossom.  This matlalin is blue and a little herb-green.   






It is very sound, firm, good, of good appearance, fresh green.  It is  






fresh green, very resh green. . . . / acan quizqui in itoca, xihuitl  






ixochyo, xochitl: inin matlali texotic, ihuan achi quiltic, cenca  






ixtlapalhui, ixchicactic, cualli, cualnezqui, celic, celic,  






celpatic. . . ." (11: 240).













The Badianus Ms. cites matlalxochitl (presumably the xochitl referred  






to in the Florentine?) as an element in a treatment for "heat" in the  






eyes (pl. 14, p. 218).  The footnote for matlalxochitl glosses the  






term as "blue flower" identifies the plant as "the dayflower,  






Commelina, of which a number of species are found on the Mexican  






plateau.  A native variant Nahuatl name for it is matlaliztic.   






Hern?ndez refers to several varieties of matlalxochitl (pp. 383-4),  






but none of the illustrations resembles Commelina; thus the name must  






have been applied to several flowers of blue color" (219-20).













So, two of these three sources relate matlalin to blue; I haven't  






followed up on Hern?ndez yet.  Are there other places I should look  






for more information on matlalin as blue or green?  I realize that  






blue-green functioned as a range or spectrum in precontact  






Mesoamerica, but the discrepancy among these sources has piqued my  






curiosity.













Thanks,






Molly













----------------------------------------------------------






Molly H. Bassett






Assistant Professor, Mesoamerican Religions and Indigenous Traditions






Department of Religious Studies






Georgia State University






1137 34 Peachtree Street NW






Atlanta, GA 30302













-------------- next part --------------






An HTML attachment was scrubbed...






URL:
http://www.famsi.org/pipermail/nahuatl/attachments/20100531/0371f210/attachm
ent-0001.htm 




















--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**
--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**













_______________________________________________






Nahuatl mailing list






Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org






http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl




















End of Nahuatl Digest, Vol 179, Issue 1






***************************************






-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.famsi.org/pipermail/nahuatl/attachments/20100601/ee1fe773/attachment.htm 


--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**

_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


End of Nahuatl Digest, Vol 179, Issue 3
***************************************

 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/nahuat-l/attachments/20100602/5ca4b5c0/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl

From mmccaffe at indiana.edu  Wed Jun  2 20:07:50 2010
From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty)
Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2010 16:07:50 -0400
Subject: Nahuatl Digest, Vol 179, Issue 1
In-Reply-To: <002401cb01fc$27890a70$769b1f50$@net.mx>
Message-ID: <WED.2.JUN.2010.160750.0400.MMCCAFFE@INDIANA.EDU>

Tlaxtlahui, Tomas.

Here are some additional fine-tuning, I hope. :)

Quoting Tomas Amaya <t_amaya at megared.net.mx>:

> Tocnihuane'
>
>
>
> Once again a contribution from nahuat of Cuetzalan.
>
>
>
> 1.       Cozahua' is a verbal particle related to "getting yellow"


In "classical" Nahuatl a transitive verb something like this exists:
tlacoze:hua 'he/she makes something yellow'...basically to "ehua" 
something in a yellow way "coz-". But from your examples below I 
understand neither the morphology or the grammaticality of "cozahua". 
Could you go into those?

My general thinking at the moment is that it's certainly interesting 
what you say below, but I think we need more data to establish the 
meaning of this place name.

At the same time, there are definitely other people on this list who 
could add light to this discussion, I would think.

In the meantime, I've added a couple of extra comments below,

All the best,

Michael

>
> 2.       Cozahuac means "yellowish"

What are the constitutent morphemes?

coz- 'yellow'

???? -------


>
> 3.       Firs meaning: talcozahua' (NC=tlalcozahua') => earth that is
> getting yellow

There is in "classical," cozahui:ya  'to get yellow'

tla:lli in cozahui:ya  'earth that is getting yellow'

I would imagine *tla:lcozahui:ya would mean something like becoming the 
yellow associated with soil.

>
> 4.       Second meaning: talcozahuac (NC=  tlalcozahuac) => earth that is
> yellowish
>

Following your examples below, "tlalcozahuac" would actually mean

'it got yellow in a soil way'


> 5.       Examples that may aid to understand it: Huitzil-opochtli =
> hummingbird that is left-handed;


Cuauh-temoc = Eagle that has descendet;

This actually means 'he descended like an eagle'...."he 
eagle-descended", ...neither like a falcon, nor a swallow, whatever, 
but like an eagle. It's very wonderful name as given names go, don't 
you think?




> tezcatli-poca = mirror that smokes.






>
>
>
> Niamechyoltlapalohua.
>
>
>
> Tomas Amaya
>

_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From idiez at me.com  Fri Jun  4 04:49:38 2010
From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan)
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2010 23:49:38 -0500
Subject: Nahuatl summer course in Zacatecas
Message-ID: <THU.3.JUN.2010.234938.0500.IDIEZ@ME.COM>

Piyali listeros,
	As you know our Yale Nahuatl Summer Language Institute will be held in Zacatecas from June 21 to July 30. I'm happy to announce that Joe Campbell will be with us for the entire six weeks. If you are in the vicinity, don't hesitate to stop by, meet us and sit in on a few classes.
John

John Sullivan, Ph.D.
Professor of Nahua language and culture
Universidad Aut?noma de Zacatecas
Zacatecas Institute of Teaching and Research in Ethnology
Tacuba 152, int. 43
Centro Hist?rico
Zacatecas, Zac. 98000
Mexico
Work: +52 (492) 925-3415
Fax: +1 (858) 724-3030 (U.S.A.)
Home: +52 (492) 768-6048
Mobile: +52 1 (492) 103-0195
idiez at me.com
www.macehualli.org

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/nahuat-l/attachments/20100603/0e6c7cbd/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl

From vazquezdiaz at aol.com  Thu Jun  3 20:56:58 2010
From: vazquezdiaz at aol.com (vazquezdiaz at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2010 16:56:58 -0400
Subject: signifficado de tlalcosahua vs tlal pu ja hua
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3.1275584401.8800.nahuatl@lists.famsi.org>
Message-ID: <THU.3.JUN.2010.165658.0400.>


 

 Muchas gracias por compartir la informacion relacionada con TLAL CO  SAHUA

Hay otro lugar que se llama  TLAL PU JA HUA   de Tlalpoxahua  tlalli = tierra + poxahua = fofo, por lo tanto Tlalpoxahua significa "tierra fofa."

Con lo de Tlalcosahua (municipio de Huejucar, Jalisco) aun no lo puedo digerir bien.  

Socorrro!


 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: nahuatl-request at lists.famsi.org
To: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
Sent: Thu, Jun 3, 2010 10:00 am
Subject: Nahuatl Digest, Vol 179, Issue 5


Send Nahuatl mailing list submissions to
    nahuatl at lists.famsi.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
    http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
    nahuatl-request at lists.famsi.org

You can reach the person managing the list at
    nahuatl-owner at lists.famsi.org

When replying, please change the Subject line of your email to match
the exact topic being discussed, and delete all but the most important
text from previous messages.


Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Nahuatl Digest, Vol 179, Issue 1 (Michael McCafferty)


--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**

Message: 1
Date: Wed,  2 Jun 2010 16:07:50 -0400
From: Michael McCafferty <mmccaffe at indiana.edu>
Subject: Re: [Nahuat-l] Nahuatl Digest, Vol 179, Issue 1
To: Tomas Amaya <t_amaya at megared.net.mx>
Cc: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org, vazquezdiaz at aol.com
Message-ID: <20100602160750.yqa4xirpq8k84os4 at webmail.iu.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain;   charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed"



Tlaxtlahui, Tomas.

Here are some additional fine-tuning, I hope. :)

Quoting Tomas Amaya <t_amaya at megared.net.mx>:

> Tocnihuane'
>
>
>
> Once again a contribution from nahuat of Cuetzalan.
>
>
>
> 1.       Cozahua' is a verbal particle related to "getting yellow"


In "classical" Nahuatl a transitive verb something like this exists:
tlacoze:hua 'he/she makes something yellow'...basically to "ehua" 
something in a yellow way "coz-". But from your examples below I 
understand neither the morphology or the grammaticality of "cozahua". 
Could you go into those?

My general thinking at the moment is that it's certainly interesting 
what you say below, but I think we need more data to establish the 
meaning of this place name.

At the same time, there are definitely other people on this list who 
could add light to this discussion, I would think.

In the meantime, I've added a couple of extra comments below,

All the best,

Michael

>
> 2.       Cozahuac means "yellowish"

What are the constitutent morphemes?

coz- 'yellow'

???? -------


>
> 3.       Firs meaning: talcozahua' (NC=tlalcozahua') => earth that is
> getting yellow

There is in "classical," cozahui:ya  'to get yellow'

tla:lli in cozahui:ya  'earth that is getting yellow'

I would imagine *tla:lcozahui:ya would mean something like becoming the 
yellow associated with soil.

>
> 4.       Second meaning: talcozahuac (NC=  tlalcozahuac) => earth that is
> yellowish
>

Following your examples below, "tlalcozahuac" would actually mean

'it got yellow in a soil way'


> 5.       Examples that may aid to understand it: Huitzil-opochtli =
> hummingbird that is left-handed;


Cuauh-temoc = Eagle that has descendet;

This actually means 'he descended like an eagle'...."he 
eagle-descended", ...neither like a falcon, nor a swallow, whatever, 
but like an eagle. It's very wonderful name as given names go, don't 
you think?




> tezcatli-poca = mirror that smokes.






>
>
>
> Niamechyoltlapalohua.
>
>
>
> Tomas Amaya
>



--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**

_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


End of Nahuatl Digest, Vol 179, Issue 5
***************************************

 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/nahuat-l/attachments/20100603/1494c9a3/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl

From lahunik.62 at skynet.be  Sat Jun  5 00:30:38 2010
From: lahunik.62 at skynet.be (lahunik.62 at skynet.be)
Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2010 02:30:38 +0200
Subject: Matlalin, matlalli or matlaltic
Message-ID: <SAT.5.JUN.2010.023038.0200.>

Matlalin, matlalli or matlaltic.

1.      Medical and dying plant.

Commelina coelestis.

Matlalin ixochyo, the blossom of the matlalin. Sah.11.158.

Cure of a fever named, matlaltotonqui.

2.      Matlalin.

Dying substance, dark blue-green. R.Andrews Intr.452.

Dunkelgrune Farbe. SIS.1952,273.

Inin matlalli texohtic ihuan achi quiltic, este matlalli es azul y un poco
verde.

Cod.Flor.XI.217v.; Sah.11.240.

Launey II.241.

Huel iuhquin matlalin, mamatlaltic, matlaltic,

just like the blue coloring, an intense blue, blue.

Is said of the jewel stone, matlalitztli. Sah.11.227.

Obsidiane azul, piedra preciosa. Sah.HG.XI.8.24.

Garibay Sah.1969.IX.341.

3.      Matlalli

Cosa de color de cardeno o cosa azul.

Rainbow. Sah.7.18.

Veilchenblau, violett.

Nach Sahagun's Beschreibung der Regenbogens.

Nach der bekannten Vermengung von Blau und Grun. In der Farbenbezeichnung
der Indianer bedeutet das Wort auch "cosa de color verde escuro",
dunkelgrun. SIS.1950.295.

4.      Matlaltic

Cosa de color verde escuro. Molina II.53r.

Texohtic ahnozo matlaltic, azul o de color verde oscuro.

Is said of the flower of the Cuauheloquilic. Cod.Flor.XI.153r.; Sah.11.160.

Matlaltic, matlalayohtic, darkgreen, gourd-green, is said of the river.
Sah.II.248.

A coton variety de Tollan. Sah.3.14.

Matlaltic in iayo, su jugo es de color verde oscuro.

Is said of the plant Coahtli. Cod.Flor.XI.114r; Sah.II.111.

R.Simeon said, vert fonc?, azur tres pur, tres fin.

5.      Matlalcueyeh.

Mountain on which the town of Tlaxcala is buiild.

The glyph shows a mountain with the flower of the matlalin. 

Lahun Ik 62

Baert Georges

Flanders Fields

 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/nahuat-l/attachments/20100605/54ace6eb/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl

From Irene.Padilla at fmc-na.com  Mon Jun  7 18:29:06 2010
From: Irene.Padilla at fmc-na.com (Irene Padilla)
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2010 11:29:06 PDT
Subject: (no subject)
Message-ID: <MON.7.JUN.2010.112906.PDT.IRENE.PADILLA@FMCNA.COM>


Good Morning Listeros
I'm in need of some help. I know this might be unusual but i am looking for
a Nahua name for a lil' girl

Is it CITLALI or XITLALLI?
What is the correct pronunciation? and meaning? star?
Thank you all for the quick lesson
~Irene
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/nahuat-l/attachments/20100607/cef2fbc1/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl

From mmccaffe at indiana.edu  Mon Jun  7 19:52:46 2010
From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty)
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2010 15:52:46 -0400
Subject: (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <201006071830.o57IURNx030165@www.famsi.org>
Message-ID: <MON.7.JUN.2010.155246.0400.MMCCAFFE@INDIANA.EDU>

Quoting Irene Padilla <Irene.Padilla at fmc-na.com>:

>
> Good Morning Listeros
> I'm in need of some help. I know this might be unusual but i am looking for
> a Nahua name for a lil' girl
>
> Is it CITLALI or XITLALLI?
> What is the correct pronunciation? and meaning? star?
> Thank you all for the quick lesson
> ~Irene

The word in question, Irene, is citlali(n) 'star'

si-TLA-li

or with the -n:

si-TLA-liNG   (something like the sound orthographic English -ing)


Nice name.

Michael


_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From micc2 at cox.net  Wed Jun  9 00:06:34 2010
From: micc2 at cox.net (MICC2)
Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2010 17:06:34 -0700
Subject: (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <201006071830.o57IURNx030165@www.famsi.org>
Message-ID: <TUE.8.JUN.2010.170634.0700.MICC2@COX.NET>

it SHOULD be zitlalli or citalli, but many Chicanos ,  for the sake of 
being cool, have written it Xitlalli, even though that would
  be said as SHI-tlal -li, which is not correct........

Mario

I live for reasoned, enlightened spirituality:

"Tlacecelilli", tranquilidad, paz


Mario E. Aguilar, PhD
www.mexicayotl.net



On 6/7/2010 11:29 AM, Irene Padilla wrote:
>
> Good Morning Listeros
> I'm in need of some help. I know this might be unusual but i am 
> looking for a Nahua name for a lil' girl
>
> Is it CITLALI or XITLALLI?
> What is the correct pronunciation? and meaning? star?
> Thank you all for the quick lesson
> ~Irene
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>    
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/nahuat-l/attachments/20100608/69a84780/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl

From mmccaffe at indiana.edu  Wed Jun  9 11:08:22 2010
From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty)
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2010 07:08:22 -0400
Subject: (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <4C0EDB0A.3080708@cox.net>
Message-ID: <WED.9.JUN.2010.070822.0400.MMCCAFFE@INDIANA.EDU>

Irene,

Note that Mario in the first example has a pronunciation of the name 
that reflects a tl-dialect of Nahuatl whereas the second example 
reflects a t-dialect of Nahuatl.

The name noted does not have the final -n of the term for 'star'. 
Without that /n/, the name sounds to me like "ground, earth, land' to 
me. something-tlalli.
But that's the way it goes.



Michael


Quoting MICC2 <micc2 at cox.net>:

> it SHOULD be zitlalli or citalli, but many Chicanos ,  for the sake
> of being cool, have written it Xitlalli, even though that would
>  be said as SHI-tlal -li, which is not correct........
>
> Mario
>
> I live for reasoned, enlightened spirituality:
>
> "Tlacecelilli", tranquilidad, paz
>
>
> Mario E. Aguilar, PhD
> www.mexicayotl.net
>
>
>
> On 6/7/2010 11:29 AM, Irene Padilla wrote:
>>
>> Good Morning Listeros
>> I'm in need of some help. I know this might be unusual but i am
>> looking for a Nahua name for a lil' girl
>>
>> Is it CITLALI or XITLALLI?
>> What is the correct pronunciation? and meaning? star?
>> Thank you all for the quick lesson
>> ~Irene
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nahuatl mailing list
>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>>
>



_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From mmccaffe at indiana.edu  Wed Jun  9 11:12:44 2010
From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty)
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2010 07:12:44 -0400
Subject: (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <20100609070822.u9jmx0ligoc80sg8@webmail.iu.edu>
Message-ID: <WED.9.JUN.2010.071244.0400.MMCCAFFE@INDIANA.EDU>

Quoting Michael McCafferty <mmccaffe at indiana.edu>:

> Irene,
>
> Note that Mario in the first example has a pronunciation of the name
> that reflects a tl-dialect of Nahuatl whereas the second example
> reflects a t-dialect of Nahuatl.
>
> The name noted does not have the final -n of the term for 'star'.
> Without that /n/, the name sounds to me like "ground, earth, land' to
> me. something-tlalli.

Of course, in native Nahuatl, there would be vowel length and consonant 
length differences between (ci:)tlali and tla:lli.

Michael



> But that's the way it goes.
>
>
>
> Michael
>
>
> Quoting MICC2 <micc2 at cox.net>:
>
>> it SHOULD be zitlalli or citalli, but many Chicanos ,  for the sake
>> of being cool, have written it Xitlalli, even though that would
>>  be said as SHI-tlal -li, which is not correct........
>>
>> Mario
>>
>> I live for reasoned, enlightened spirituality:
>>
>> "Tlacecelilli", tranquilidad, paz
>>
>>
>> Mario E. Aguilar, PhD
>> www.mexicayotl.net
>>
>>
>>
>> On 6/7/2010 11:29 AM, Irene Padilla wrote:
>>>
>>> Good Morning Listeros
>>> I'm in need of some help. I know this might be unusual but i am
>>> looking for a Nahua name for a lil' girl
>>>
>>> Is it CITLALI or XITLALLI?
>>> What is the correct pronunciation? and meaning? star?
>>> Thank you all for the quick lesson
>>> ~Irene
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nahuatl mailing list
>>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>>>
>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>



_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From micc2 at cox.net  Wed Jun  9 23:21:36 2010
From: micc2 at cox.net (MICC2)
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2010 16:21:36 -0700
Subject: (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <20100609070822.u9jmx0ligoc80sg8@webmail.iu.edu>
Message-ID: <WED.9.JUN.2010.162136.0700.MICC2@COX.NET>

I have seen both citalli and citallin as star......

the -   "in" ending.... I have heard (maybe it is wishful theorizing on 
someone's part???!)....
denotes something small that has inherent movement (from ollin??):
michin,
quimichin
citlalin

Axmicmati!


On another note:  some of my Chicano gente write Chicano  (CHI-Kan-o) as 
Xicano  .... yet they write Xitalli  (Zi-tal-li)...  wouldn't that be...
using the same orthography.... (Zi-Kan-o)?

Maybe we should write Nahuatl in Esperanto!!!!

Mario

I live for reasoned, enlightened spirituality:

"Tlacecelilli", tranquilidad, paz


Mario E. Aguilar, PhD
www.mexicayotl.net



On 6/9/2010 4:08 AM, Michael McCafferty wrote:
> Irene,
>
> Note that Mario in the first example has a pronunciation of the name
> that reflects a tl-dialect of Nahuatl whereas the second example
> reflects a t-dialect of Nahuatl.
>
> The name noted does not have the final -n of the term for 'star'.
> Without that /n/, the name sounds to me like "ground, earth, land' to
> me. something-tlalli.
> But that's the way it goes.
>
>
>
> Michael
>
>
> Quoting MICC2<micc2 at cox.net>:
>
>    
>> it SHOULD be zitlalli or citalli, but many Chicanos ,  for the sake
>> of being cool, have written it Xitlalli, even though that would
>>   be said as SHI-tlal -li, which is not correct........
>>
>> Mario
>>
>> I live for reasoned, enlightened spirituality:
>>
>> "Tlacecelilli", tranquilidad, paz
>>
>>
>> Mario E. Aguilar, PhD
>> www.mexicayotl.net
>>
>>
>>
>> On 6/7/2010 11:29 AM, Irene Padilla wrote:
>>      
>>> Good Morning Listeros
>>> I'm in need of some help. I know this might be unusual but i am
>>> looking for a Nahua name for a lil' girl
>>>
>>> Is it CITLALI or XITLALLI?
>>> What is the correct pronunciation? and meaning? star?
>>> Thank you all for the quick lesson
>>> ~Irene
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nahuatl mailing list
>>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>>>
>>>        
>>      
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>
>    
_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From mmccaffe at indiana.edu  Thu Jun 10 00:50:04 2010
From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty)
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2010 20:50:04 -0400
Subject: (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <4C102200.9050807@cox.net>
Message-ID: <WED.9.JUN.2010.205004.0400.MMCCAFFE@INDIANA.EDU>

I've wondered about the "small" association with this noun suffix -in. 
Is this true or just folklore? And some of -in words are variable, e.g. 
cihtli/cihtin.

Fish are not necessarily small. Wind isn't small.

Michael.


Quoting MICC2 <micc2 at cox.net>:

> I have seen both citalli and citallin as star......
>
> the -   "in" ending.... I have heard (maybe it is wishful theorizing on
> someone's part???!)....
> denotes something small that has inherent movement (from ollin??):
> michin,
> quimichin
> citlalin
>
> Axmicmati!
>
>
> On another note:  some of my Chicano gente write Chicano  (CHI-Kan-o) as
> Xicano  .... yet they write Xitalli  (Zi-tal-li)...  wouldn't that be...
> using the same orthography.... (Zi-Kan-o)?
>
> Maybe we should write Nahuatl in Esperanto!!!!
>
> Mario
>
> I live for reasoned, enlightened spirituality:
>
> "Tlacecelilli", tranquilidad, paz
>
>
> Mario E. Aguilar, PhD
> www.mexicayotl.net
>
>
>
> On 6/9/2010 4:08 AM, Michael McCafferty wrote:
>> Irene,
>>
>> Note that Mario in the first example has a pronunciation of the name
>> that reflects a tl-dialect of Nahuatl whereas the second example
>> reflects a t-dialect of Nahuatl.
>>
>> The name noted does not have the final -n of the term for 'star'.
>> Without that /n/, the name sounds to me like "ground, earth, land' to
>> me. something-tlalli.
>> But that's the way it goes.
>>
>>
>>
>> Michael
>>
>>
>> Quoting MICC2<micc2 at cox.net>:
>>
>>
>>> it SHOULD be zitlalli or citalli, but many Chicanos ,  for the sake
>>> of being cool, have written it Xitlalli, even though that would
>>>   be said as SHI-tlal -li, which is not correct........
>>>
>>> Mario
>>>
>>> I live for reasoned, enlightened spirituality:
>>>
>>> "Tlacecelilli", tranquilidad, paz
>>>
>>>
>>> Mario E. Aguilar, PhD
>>> www.mexicayotl.net
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 6/7/2010 11:29 AM, Irene Padilla wrote:
>>>
>>>> Good Morning Listeros
>>>> I'm in need of some help. I know this might be unusual but i am
>>>> looking for a Nahua name for a lil' girl
>>>>
>>>> Is it CITLALI or XITLALLI?
>>>> What is the correct pronunciation? and meaning? star?
>>>> Thank you all for the quick lesson
>>>> ~Irene
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Nahuatl mailing list
>>>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>>>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nahuatl mailing list
>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>



_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From swood at uoregon.edu  Thu Jun 10 00:32:31 2010
From: swood at uoregon.edu (Stephanie Wood)
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2010 17:32:31 -0700
Subject: (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <4C102200.9050807@cox.net>
Message-ID: <WED.9.JUN.2010.173231.0700.SWOOD@UOREGON.EDU>

Hi Mario!

I was thinking that the "Xicano" spelling for Chicano was short for (and closer to) mexicano.  The whole preservation of "x" in Mexico and mexicano is kind of interesting, too.  Colleagues who are native speakers of Spanish (but not Mexican) often ask me why Mexico and mexicano aren't spelled with a "j," but this also seems to reflect a pride and a desire to hang onto the heritage form, as we see in Xicano.

As for Citlalli, I think it's beautiful just the way it is (also seen as citlali, citlalin in manuscripts).

Saludos,
Stephanie

On Jun 9, 2010, at 4:21 PM, MICC2 wrote:

> I have seen both citalli and citallin as star......
> 
> the -   "in" ending.... I have heard (maybe it is wishful theorizing on 
> someone's part???!)....
> denotes something small that has inherent movement (from ollin??):
> michin,
> quimichin
> citlalin
> 
> Axmicmati!
> 
> 
> On another note:  some of my Chicano gente write Chicano  (CHI-Kan-o) as 
> Xicano  .... yet they write Xitalli  (Zi-tal-li)...  wouldn't that be...
> using the same orthography.... (Zi-Kan-o)?
> 
> Maybe we should write Nahuatl in Esperanto!!!!
> 
> Mario
> 
> I live for reasoned, enlightened spirituality:
> 
> "Tlacecelilli", tranquilidad, paz
> 
> 
> Mario E. Aguilar, PhD
> www.mexicayotl.net
> 
> 
> 
> On 6/9/2010 4:08 AM, Michael McCafferty wrote:
>> Irene,
>> 
>> Note that Mario in the first example has a pronunciation of the name
>> that reflects a tl-dialect of Nahuatl whereas the second example
>> reflects a t-dialect of Nahuatl.
>> 
>> The name noted does not have the final -n of the term for 'star'.
>> Without that /n/, the name sounds to me like "ground, earth, land' to
>> me. something-tlalli.
>> But that's the way it goes.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Michael
>> 
>> 
>> Quoting MICC2<micc2 at cox.net>:
>> 
>> 
>>> it SHOULD be zitlalli or citalli, but many Chicanos ,  for the sake
>>> of being cool, have written it Xitlalli, even though that would
>>>  be said as SHI-tlal -li, which is not correct........
>>> 
>>> Mario
>>> 
>>> I live for reasoned, enlightened spirituality:
>>> 
>>> "Tlacecelilli", tranquilidad, paz
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Mario E. Aguilar, PhD
>>> www.mexicayotl.net
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 6/7/2010 11:29 AM, Irene Padilla wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Good Morning Listeros
>>>> I'm in need of some help. I know this might be unusual but i am
>>>> looking for a Nahua name for a lil' girl
>>>> 
>>>> Is it CITLALI or XITLALLI?
>>>> What is the correct pronunciation? and meaning? star?
>>>> Thank you all for the quick lesson
>>>> ~Irene
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Nahuatl mailing list
>>>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>>>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nahuatl mailing list
>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>> 
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From schwallr at potsdam.edu  Thu Jun 10 17:24:06 2010
From: schwallr at potsdam.edu (John F. Schwaller)
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 13:24:06 -0400
Subject: Nahua Newsletter no. 49, February 2010
Message-ID: <THU.10.JUN.2010.132406.0400.SCHWALLR@POTSDAM.EDU>



-------- Original Message --------
Subject: 	Nahua Newsletter no. 49, February 2010
Date: 	9 Jun 2010 13:36:08 -0400
From: 	Alan Sandstrom <sandstro at ipfw.edu>
To: 	



Dear Colleagues,
Please be advised that Nahua Newsletter no. 49, February 2010, has been 
posted at http://www.nahuanewsletter.org.
Thank you,
Alan R. Sandstrom
Editor, The Nahua Newsletter
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/nahuat-l/attachments/20100610/be410fb5/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl

From micc2 at cox.net  Thu Jun 10 23:09:51 2010
From: micc2 at cox.net (MICC2)
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 16:09:51 -0700
Subject: (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <57BA14C3-D774-4751-9C71-8D1AE8E18F9B@uoregon.edu>
Message-ID: <THU.10.JUN.2010.160951.0700.MICC2@COX.NET>

..."

I was thinking that the "Xicano" spelling for Chicano was short for (and closer to) mexicano"....

In a way it is... In that it means MeChicano...... Mexican but yet Chicano but historical fate......

a form of identity,0 and a reclamation of sacred semiotic space.

I live for reasoned, enlightened spirituality:

"Tlacecelilli", tranquilidad, paz


Mario E. Aguilar, PhD
www.mexicayotl.net



On 6/9/2010 5:32 PM, Stephanie Wood wrote:
> Hi Mario!
>
> I was thinking that the "Xicano" spelling for Chicano was short for (and closer to) mexicano.  The whole preservation of "x" in Mexico and mexicano is kind of interesting, too.  Colleagues who are native speakers of Spanish (but not Mexican) often ask me why Mexico and mexicano aren't spelled with a "j," but this also seems to reflect a pride and a desire to hang onto the heritage form, as we see in Xicano.
>
> As for Citlalli, I think it's beautiful just the way it is (also seen as citlali, citlalin in manuscripts).
>
> Saludos,
> Stephanie
>
> On Jun 9, 2010, at 4:21 PM, MICC2 wrote:
>
>    
>> I have seen both citalli and citallin as star......
>>
>> the -   "in" ending.... I have heard (maybe it is wishful theorizing on
>> someone's part???!)....
>> denotes something small that has inherent movement (from ollin??):
>> michin,
>> quimichin
>> citlalin
>>
>> Axmicmati!
>>
>>
>> On another note:  some of my Chicano gente write Chicano  (CHI-Kan-o) as
>> Xicano  .... yet they write Xitalli  (Zi-tal-li)...  wouldn't that be...
>> using the same orthography.... (Zi-Kan-o)?
>>
>> Maybe we should write Nahuatl in Esperanto!!!!
>>
>> Mario
>>
>> I live for reasoned, enlightened spirituality:
>>
>> "Tlacecelilli", tranquilidad, paz
>>
>>
>> Mario E. Aguilar, PhD
>> www.mexicayotl.net
>>
>>
>>
>> On 6/9/2010 4:08 AM, Michael McCafferty wrote:
>>      
>>> Irene,
>>>
>>> Note that Mario in the first example has a pronunciation of the name
>>> that reflects a tl-dialect of Nahuatl whereas the second example
>>> reflects a t-dialect of Nahuatl.
>>>
>>> The name noted does not have the final -n of the term for 'star'.
>>> Without that /n/, the name sounds to me like "ground, earth, land' to
>>> me. something-tlalli.
>>> But that's the way it goes.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Michael
>>>
>>>
>>> Quoting MICC2<micc2 at cox.net>:
>>>
>>>
>>>        
>>>> it SHOULD be zitlalli or citalli, but many Chicanos ,  for the sake
>>>> of being cool, have written it Xitlalli, even though that would
>>>>   be said as SHI-tlal -li, which is not correct........
>>>>
>>>> Mario
>>>>
>>>> I live for reasoned, enlightened spirituality:
>>>>
>>>> "Tlacecelilli", tranquilidad, paz
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Mario E. Aguilar, PhD
>>>> www.mexicayotl.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 6/7/2010 11:29 AM, Irene Padilla wrote:
>>>>
>>>>          
>>>>> Good Morning Listeros
>>>>> I'm in need of some help. I know this might be unusual but i am
>>>>> looking for a Nahua name for a lil' girl
>>>>>
>>>>> Is it CITLALI or XITLALLI?
>>>>> What is the correct pronunciation? and meaning? star?
>>>>> Thank you all for the quick lesson
>>>>> ~Irene
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Nahuatl mailing list
>>>>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>>>>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>            
>>>>          
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nahuatl mailing list
>>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>>>
>>>
>>>        
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nahuatl mailing list
>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>>      
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>
>    
_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From mikelffgg at yahoo.com  Fri Jun 11 12:36:32 2010
From: mikelffgg at yahoo.com (Mikel Fernandez)
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2010 05:36:32 -0700
Subject: radio online in nahuatl?
Message-ID: <FRI.11.JUN.2010.053632.0700.MIKELFFGG@YAHOO.COM>

Does anyone know if there are any issuer Nahuatl radio online?. I found the CNDP of such XEANT http://ecos.cdi.gob.mx/xeant.html.

The problem is that I've never been able to open any of them. Do not know if it's a temporary problem, my computer or otherwise.

Mikel 



      
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/nahuat-l/attachments/20100611/fe41c2f8/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl

From rich_photos at yahoo.com  Sat Jun 12 15:59:52 2010
From: rich_photos at yahoo.com (rick dosan)
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 08:59:52 -0700
Subject: request for nahuatl speaker
In-Reply-To: <20100609205004.xy53l6c8ao0sso0w@webmail.iu.edu>
Message-ID: <SAT.12.JUN.2010.085952.0700.RICHPHOTOS@YAHOO.COM>





An ad agency (TM locutores), needs a child or young person to speak for an ad.? I was asked by the agency to help them find someone who could read a short poem in Nahuatl for this ad.? They would like someone who speaks Nahuatl del Centro.? Any ideas?? Thanks, Richard Dorfsman


      
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/nahuat-l/attachments/20100612/78d2b576/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl

From campbel at indiana.edu  Sun Jun 13 20:28:46 2010
From: campbel at indiana.edu (Campbell, R. Joe)
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2010 16:28:46 -0400
Subject: Citlalin vs. Citlalli
In-Reply-To: <20100609205004.xy53l6c8ao0sso0w@webmail.iu.edu>
Message-ID: <SUN.13.JUN.2010.162846.0400.CAMPBEL@INDIANA.EDU>

Nocnihua,

   The ci:tlalin/citlalli discussion has been interesting to me,
partly because of my chuckle whenever I see another jewelry store
with a sign labeled "Citlalli" (please forgive my etymological
leaning).

   One point that we should all keep in mind is that languages
change, and, as fond as some of us are of words or morphemes at some
earlier stage, we should be willing to recognize changes when and if
they take place.  It is fairly clear that in the 16th century,
'ci:tlalin' existed as a word, since both Molina and Sahagun record
it multiple times (but without vowel length).  It is also clear that
final -n dropping was happening, since they also both record
'citlali' and Sahagun records 'citlalli'.

   The path that 'citlalin' (from here on, I suppress notation of
vowel length) can (and probably does) take to arrive at 'citlalli' is:

    citlalin  --->  citlali   (-n dropping)
    citlali   --->  citlalli  (re-interpretation as an -li noun)
                          [there are no word final -li nouns that
                           are not of the -tli or -lli class]

   A factor which contributes to the ambiguousness of class
membership (i.e., -lli vs. -in) for nouns is that their possessive
forms show no contrast:

    citlalin       nocitlal

    comalli        nocomal


   One minor factor in slowing the perception of certain "-n
dropped" nouns as joining the -lli noun class is that some -in nouns
are borrowed into Spanish, like 'chapulin' and 'capulin'.  With
regard to these borrowings, there is a question as to what weight
they might carry in the consciousness of Nahuatl speakers.  In
communities with a large percentage of monolingual Nahuatl speakers,
the fact that a few monolingual Spanish speaker pronounce 'chapulin'
might not be very relevant.
   As for bilingual speakers (of varying degrees), my guess is
that influence in one direction or the other would depend on their
degree of bilingualism and the degree of influence of monolingual
Spanish speakers.  I know that one of my friends from Oapan
(Morelos) drops word final -n in Spanish (with no trace of nasality
on the preceding vowel) in the same way that he treats Nahuatl
words.

   come (they eat) (for comen) [Spanish]

   patlani (it flies)  opatla (it flew, for opatlan) [Nahuatl]


   When we consider the "validity" of 'citlalli', we usually don't
consider a basic question:  What do the native speakers of the
various modern variations of Nahuatl think?  My fear is that many of
the judgements offered are those of us outsiders who have no
intuitions about the necessary facts such as whether the 'l' element
is long or short.

   I have included below a list of '-in' morphemes, along with their
frequencies of occurrence in the Molina dictionaries and the
Florentine Codex.  The stems that end in 'l' are separated from the
others.  It should be noted that stems that end in a consonant
*other* than 'l' don't result in the same sort of tantalizing
problem that those in 'll' do.  When 'michin' drops its 'n', the
absolutive form might seem to be 'michi', and the possessed form
'nomich' would hint that the classes of absolutive nouns are
now:

  -tli
  -li
  -i

BUT that -i class would clearly stand alone and it would not cause
the head scratching that 'citlali' is causing. And there is no
reason why 'citlali' and words like it might not belong to this new
-i class.

Joe

note 1: The confusion of 'l' and 'll' in Molina and Sahagun
(Florentine Codex) is something that I have been tabulating.
As of the present, their frequency is:

   l for ll:  179
   ll for l:  179

The identity of the frequencies is a coincidence, depending on my
identifying and labeling examples (in July 2007, they were 92 and
122, respectively).


note 2: From the historical point of view, 'ollin' is an interesting
re-interpretation.  Although it is normally written 'ollin' and
probably thought of as a noun, it is in fact the preterit form of
the verb 'o:li:ni', so the 'll' is an innovation not likely to have
come from native users of the language.


  acocilin     10
  capolin     102
  chacalin     17
  chamolin      7
  chapolin     46
  chipolin     11
  chiquimolin  18
  chopilin      4
  ci:tlalin    94
  cilin        14
  cuetzpalin   55
  cuezalin     47
  ma:tla:lin   60
  metolin      15
  ocuilin     176
  pipiyolin    12
  tamazolin    17
  temolin      16
  to:lin      429
  to:tolin    335
  tocuilin     12
  xohuilin     24
  xomalin      25
  za:yo:lin    63
  zo:to:lin    14

* * * * * * *

  a:xin        48
  cohuixin      2
  cui:xin       6
  hua:xin       9
  huixachin    11
  huixin        2
  ma:pachin     3
  mexixin      13
  michin      314
  quimichin    92
  tapayaxin     7




_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From campbel at indiana.edu  Mon Jun 14 04:35:57 2010
From: campbel at indiana.edu (Campbell, R. Joe)
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2010 00:35:57 -0400
Subject: Citlalin vs. Citlalli
In-Reply-To: <20100613162846.d244joun4kc0kw84@webmail.iu.edu>
Message-ID: <MON.14.JUN.2010.003557.0400.CAMPBEL@INDIANA.EDU>

I received a helpful notice from a colleague calling my attention to 
the fact that the sub-list below omitted the morpheme 'to:chin'.  Here 
is the amended list and thanks to watchful eyes and reflective thinking:


* * * * * * *
>
>  a:xin        48
>  cohuixin      2
>  cui:xin       6
>  hua:xin       9
>  huixachin    11
>  huixin        2
>  ma:pachin     3
>  mexixin      13
>  michin      314
>  quimichin    92
>  tapayaxin     7
>  to:chin     260   ***
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>



_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From idiez at mac.com  Sat Jun 19 14:08:33 2010
From: idiez at mac.com (John Sullivan)
Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2010 09:08:33 -0500
Subject: 2010 Yale Summer Nahuatl materials
Message-ID: <SAT.19.JUN.2010.090833.0500.IDIEZ@MAC.COM>

Piyali listeros,
	Please feel free to go to http://public.me.com/idiez  and download the course materials we will be using for the Modern Huastecan Nahuatl component of the 2010 Yale Nahuatl Summer Language Institute in Zacatecas, Mexico. There is a beginners workbook, an intermediate workbook and a combined introductory grammar and basic vocabulary. These are works in progress, so any comments, criticisms and heads-up regarding errors, misspellings, etc., are appreciated.
Provecho,
John

John Sullivan, Ph.D.
Professor of Nahua language and culture
Universidad Aut?noma de Zacatecas
Zacatecas Institute of Teaching and Research in Ethnology
Tacuba 152, int. 43
Centro Hist?rico
Zacatecas, Zac. 98000
Mexico
Work: +52 (492) 925-3415
Fax: +1 (858) 724-3030 (U.S.A.)
Home: +52 (492) 768-6048
Mobile: +52 1 (492) 103-0195
idiez at me.com
www.macehualli.org

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/nahuat-l/attachments/20100619/f04207fd/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl

From b.leeming at rivers.org  Wed Jun 30 13:56:58 2010
From: b.leeming at rivers.org (Leeming, Ben)
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 09:56:58 -0400
Subject: Huitzilopochtli
Message-ID: <WED.30.JUN.2010.095658.0400.B.LEEMING@RIVERS.ORG>

Piyali listeros, here's an interesting one that has me scratching my head.

I just read the following in an article from the Woodburn (OR) Independent online:

WOODBURN - Woodburn's local Aztec dance group, Danza Azteca Huitzilopochtli, provided a feast for the senses in their performance at Library Park on June 24. The group's name, Huitzilopochtli, is a Nahuatl word meaning "strength of your will." (emphasis mine)

I can't for the life of me discern how "strength of your will" comes from Huitzilopochtli...  Any thoughts where this might have come from?

Here's the link:  http://www.woodburnindependent.com/news/2010/June/29/News.Briefs/local.aztec.dance.group.to.perform.june.24/news.aspx

Ben

Ben Leeming
Chair, History Department
The Rivers School
Weston, MA 02493
(781) 235-9300


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/nahuat-l/attachments/20100630/f6e2f08e/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl

From mmccaffe at indiana.edu  Wed Jun 30 14:07:39 2010
From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty)
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 10:07:39 -0400
Subject: Huitzilopochtli
In-Reply-To: <C850C56A.489F%b.leeming@rivers.org>
Message-ID: <WED.30.JUN.2010.100739.0400.MMCCAFFE@INDIANA.EDU>

Ben,

I haven't read the link (will later), but "strength of your will" is 
not what "Huitzilopochtli" means. You really never know what you're 
going to run into in res Aztecas.


:-)

Michael

Quoting "Leeming, Ben" <b.leeming at rivers.org>:

> Piyali listeros, here's an interesting one that has me scratching my head.
>
> I just read the following in an article from the Woodburn (OR)
> Independent online:
>
> WOODBURN - Woodburn's local Aztec dance group, Danza Azteca
> Huitzilopochtli, provided a feast for the senses in their performance
> at Library Park on June 24. The group's name, Huitzilopochtli, is a
> Nahuatl word meaning "strength of your will." (emphasis mine)
>
> I can't for the life of me discern how "strength of your will" comes
> from Huitzilopochtli...  Any thoughts where this might have come from?
>
> Here's the link:
> http://www.woodburnindependent.com/news/2010/June/29/News.Briefs/local.aztec.dance.group.to.perform.june.24/news.aspx
>
> Ben
>
> Ben Leeming
> Chair, History Department
> The Rivers School
> Weston, MA 02493
> (781) 235-9300
>
>
>



_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From a.appleyard at btinternet.com  Wed Jun 30 16:13:24 2010
From: a.appleyard at btinternet.com (ANTHONY APPLEYARD)
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 16:13:24 +0000
Subject: Huitzilopochtli
In-Reply-To: <C850C56A.489F%b.leeming@rivers.org>
Message-ID: <WED.30.JUN.2010.161324.0000.A.APPLEYARD@BTINTERNET.COM>

--- On Wed, 30/6/10, Leeming, Ben <b.leeming at rivers.org> wrote:
>? Piyali listeros, here?s an interesting one that has me scratching my head.? 
>? I just read the following in an article from the Woodburn (OR) Independent online:
>?? WOODBURN ? Woodburn?s local Aztec dance group, Danza Azteca Huitzilopochtli,
> provided a feast for the senses in their performance at Library Park on June 24.
> The group?s name, Huitzilopochtli, is a Nahuatl word meaning ?strength of your will.?
> (emphasis mine)
> I can?t for the life of me discern how ?strength of your will? comes from Huitzilopochtli... 
> Any thoughts where this might have come from?
>? Here?s the link:? http://www.woodburnindependent.com/news/2010/June/29/News.Briefs/local.aztec.dance.group.to.perform.june.24/news.aspx

Random guesswork and writing whatever they like to advertize their group, likeliest.

Someone better write to them pointing out their error.

Citlalyani.

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/nahuat-l/attachments/20100630/f17633e9/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl

From david_becraft at hotmail.com  Wed Jun 30 19:42:09 2010
From: david_becraft at hotmail.com (pancho Becraft)
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 12:42:09 -0700
Subject: Huitzilopochtli
In-Reply-To: <20100630100739.9acc4q3eiow8848g@webmail.iu.edu>
Message-ID: <WED.30.JUN.2010.124209.0700.DAVIDBECRAFT@HOTMAIL.COM>


I have never heard that meaning either.  Could it be that they are applying a metaphoric meaning to the name.  After all, isn't Huitzilopochtli reputed to be the "god of war"?  And since he is the god of war, "strenght of your will" would make sense at least in that context?

 

tlashtlahui
 
> Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 10:07:39 -0400
> From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu
> To: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> Subject: Re: [Nahuat-l] Huitzilopochtli
> 
> 
> Ben,
> 
> I haven't read the link (will later), but "strength of your will" is 
> not what "Huitzilopochtli" means. You really never know what you're 
> going to run into in res Aztecas.
> 
> 
> :-)
> 
> Michael
> 
> Quoting "Leeming, Ben" <b.leeming at rivers.org>:
> 
> > Piyali listeros, here's an interesting one that has me scratching my head.
> >
> > I just read the following in an article from the Woodburn (OR)
> > Independent online:
> >
> > WOODBURN - Woodburn's local Aztec dance group, Danza Azteca
> > Huitzilopochtli, provided a feast for the senses in their performance
> > at Library Park on June 24. The group's name, Huitzilopochtli, is a
> > Nahuatl word meaning "strength of your will." (emphasis mine)
> >
> > I can't for the life of me discern how "strength of your will" comes
> > from Huitzilopochtli... Any thoughts where this might have come from?
> >
> > Here's the link:
> > http://www.woodburnindependent.com/news/2010/June/29/News.Briefs/local.aztec.dance.group.to.perform.june.24/news.aspx
> >
> > Ben
> >
> > Ben Leeming
> > Chair, History Department
> > The Rivers School
> > Weston, MA 02493
> > (781) 235-9300
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your inbox.
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_2
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/nahuat-l/attachments/20100630/48511813/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl