From t_amaya at megared.net.mx Sat May 1 15:56:54 2010 From: t_amaya at megared.net.mx (Tomas Amaya) Date: Sat, 1 May 2010 10:56:54 -0500 Subject: JOYAS BIBLIOGRAFICAS PARA EL ESTUDIO DEL NAHUATL, OTOMI Y TARASCO ACCESIBLES EN LA WEB In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hola Roberto, David y demás Listeros. Con entusiasmo por los libros a los que se puede tener acceso en estas bibliotecas, quiero también quiero hacer de su conocimiento el Link de la Biblioteca Lafragua de la Universidad Autóma de Puebla. http://www.lafragua.buap.mx/ Entre su acervo digital se puede consultar el Códice Sierra y el códice Yanhuitlan. Que los disfruten. Saludos desde Puebla/Namechoyoltlapalohua Cuetlaxcoapanpa’ Tomas Amaya De: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org [mailto:nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org] En nombre de roberto romero Enviado el: Martes, 27 de Abril de 2010 10:38 a.m. Para: Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org Asunto: [Nahuat-l] JOYAS BIBLIOGRAFICAS PARA EL ESTUDIO DEL NAHUATL, OTOMI Y TARASCO ACCESIBLES EN LA WEB Estimados foristas comparto con ustedes el descubrimiento de un verdadero tesoro que libre , gratuita y sin condición alguna ha puesto a disposición de todo quien desee obtenerlo una Universidad Pública, quien mas si no ellas en México, pues las privadas solo exprimen al cliente y conforman oligofrénicos tecnócratas o dipsómanos y crápulas gobernantes como los que desde hace 25 años padecemos en este dolorido y ensangrentrado país llamado México. La Universidad Autónoma de Nuevo León por medio de su Dirección General de Bibliotecas ha hecho una notable obra , encomiable en todos sentidos y digna de admiración, apoyo y respeto; creando la Colección Digital UANL . Un ejemplo que ojala se repita e otras universidad de este país y del mundo. Su dirección es http://cd.dgb.uanl.mx/index.php La UNAL ha puesto en linea parte fondos reservados "El objetivo de esta Colección es difundir los documentos mediante el acceso electrónico al texto completo de los mismos, a la vez que contribuir a su conservación. Tiene como principal antecedente e inspiración el Programa Memoria del Mundo de la UNESCO, cuyo propósito es asegurar la preservación del patrimonio documental de importancia nacional y regional." "La Colección Digital de la UANL está conformada por documentos editados durante los siglos XVI al XIX, en español, italiano, francés y latín, así como por las tesis de postgrado (Maestría, Especialidad y Doctorado) generadas en la UANL y por otros documentos de interés para la investigación. Los documentos de esta colección forman parte de los acervos bibliográficos que poseen la Biblioteca Universitaria Raúl Rangel Frías, Capilla Alfonsina Biblioteca Universitaria, Centro Regional de Información y Documentación en Salud de la Facultad de Medicina y Biblioteca José Juan Vallejo de la Facultad de Derecho y Criminología. La Colección Digital de la UANL, esta integrada actualmente por: 16,766 títulos con 17,430 volúmenes. De manera gratuita, libre ,sin condición alguna , sin tener que recibir basura en tu correo : LOS ESTUDIOSOS DEL NAHUATL A TODO NIVEL ENCUENTRAN EN ÉSTA BIBLIOTECA DIGITAL DE LA UANL VERDADERAS E INAPRECIABLES JOYAS BIBLIOGRÁFICAS COMO: Arte mexicana / compuesta por Antonio del Rincón. México: Oficina Tip. de la Secretaría de Fomento, 1885. Edicion preparada por Antonio Peñafiel Arte Mexicana por el jesuita Antonio del Rincon , indio texocoano y que fue publicado originalmente en 1595, Nahuatl texcocano EN ESTE MISMO VOLUMEN SE ENCUENTRA TAMBIEN PUBLICADO Arte de la lengua mexicana por el Padre Horacio Carochi. Los estudiosos del Nahuatl saben lo valioso que es esta joya publicada originalmente en 1695 Arte de la Lengua tarasca de Diego de Basalenque publicada en 1714 Todo esto manjar en el siguiente link http://cdigital.dgb.uanl.mx/la/1080018793/1080018793.html y la muy interezante obra del Nahuatl de la región cazcana, DE JALISCO, ZACATECAS Y DURANGO se encuentra ésta edición preparada por el notable historiador Santoscoy.y publiicada en 1900: Arte de lengua mexicana que fue usual entre los indios del Obispado de Guadalajara y de parte de los de Durango y Michoacán, escrito en 1692 / por Fr. Juan Guerra.Guadalajara, Jal.: Ancira y Hno., 1900. http://cdigital.dgb.uanl.mx/la/1080013823/1080013823.html Y tamabien con varios materiales mas incluidos en este volumen encontramos: Título: Arte de la lengua mexicana / el Br. en sagrada teología Rafael Sandoval Autor: Sandoval, Rafael Tiburcio. Pie de imprenta: México : Tip. La Reproducción, 1888 Materia: Nahua -- Gramática. Número de control (Bibid): 18443 http://cdigital.dgb.uanl.mx/la/1080013824/1080013824.html Y para los estudiosos del otomi como nuestro siempre generoso forista David Wright que sufre con las ventas de libros frudulentos o mal editados la biblioteca digital de la UNAL contiene esto: Luces de Otomí ó gramática del idioma que hablan los indios otomíes en la República Mexicana / por Eustaquio Buelna. Autor: Buelna, Eustaquio, 1830-1907. Pie de imprenta: México: Imp. del Gobierno Federal, 1893 Materia: Indios de México -- Lenguas. / Otomíes. Número de control (Bibid): 17692 Este trae en su Libro segundo puro manajar para los estudiosos del otomi pues contienene este libro segundo: Luces del Otomí observadas á tres famosos lenguaraces, los padres Horacio Carochi y Francisco Jiménez, de la Compañía de Jesús, u Juan Sánchez de la Baquera, secular de Tula. Y en su Capítulo vigésimo primero - Capítulo vigésimo segundo Capítulo vigésimo primero. Luz de algunos adverbios que usaban los discípulos de Juan Sánchez. Capítulo vigésimo segundo. Diccionario formado de algunos términos observados en algunos papeles y discípulos de Juan Sánchez de la Baquera. Libro tercero. De las luces que útilmente se consiguieron de D. Luís de Neve, presbítero, sinodal de este Arzobispado. http://cdigital.dgb.uanl.mx/la/1080012545/1080012545.html Título: Luces del otomi ó gramática del idioma que hablan los indios otomíes en la republica mexicana, compuesta / un padre de la compañía de Jesús Autor: [Basilio, Tomas], 1654- Pie de imprenta: México : Imp. del Gobierno Federal, 1893 Materia: Otomí. Número de control (Bibid): 66154 Es el contenido anterior de la edición de don Eustaquio Buelna, sabio sinaloense. http://cdigital.dgb.uanl.mx/la/1080043172/1080043172.html Título: Lenguas indígenas de México : Familia mixteco - zapoteco y sus relaciones con el otomi.- Familia zoque-mixe.-chontal.- Huave y mexicano / Francisco Belmar Autor: Belmar, Francisco, 1859 Pie de imprenta: México : Impr. Particular, 1905 Materia: Indios de México -- Lenguas. Número de control (Bibid): 34290 http://cdigital.dgb.uanl.mx/la/1080018786/1080018786.html A continuación comparto el resultado de la busqueda de titulos en esta Biblioteca virtual por medio de distintas palabras clave. Encontrando los siguientes materiales utiles para el estudio del Nahuatl: Ha buscado : nahua Resultados desde el 1 hasta el 10 de un total de 18 encontrados. Nueva búsqueda Título: Annales de Domingo Francisco de San Anton Chimalpahin Cuauhtlehuanitzin, sixieme et septieme relations (1258-1612) Autor: Chimalpain Cuauhtlehuanitzin, Domingo Francisco de San Antón Muñón, 1579-1660. Pie de imprenta: París : Maisonneuve et Ch. Leclerc, 1889 Materia: Nahua -- Textos. / México -- Historia. Número de control (Bibid): 17309 Título: Arte de la lengua mexicana / el Br. en sagrada teología Rafael Sandoval Autor: Sandoval, Rafael Tiburcio. Pie de imprenta: México : Tip. La Reproducción, 1888 Materia: Nahua -- Gramática. Número de control (Bibid): 18443 Título: Arte de lengua mexicana que fué usual entre los indios del obispado de Guadalajara y de parte de los de Durango y Michoacán, escrito en 1692 / Fr. Juan Guerra Autor: Guerra, Juan, fl. 1690. Pie de imprenta: Guadalajara, Jal. : Ancira y Hno., 1900 Materia: Nahua -- Gramática. Número de control (Bibid): 18442 Título: Arte mexicana. / compuesta por Antonio del Rincón Autor: Rincón, Antonio del, 1556-1601. Pie de imprenta: México : Oficina Tip. de la Secretaría de Fomento, 1885 Materia: Nahua -- Gramática. Número de control (Bibid): 34299 Título: Arte mexicana. compuesta por el padre Antonio del Rincón de la Compañia de Jesus ; dirigido al illustrissimo y reverendissimo S. Don Diego Romano Obispo de Tlaxcallan y el consejo de su Magestad &c. en México en casa de Pedro Balli, 1595. Autor: Rincón, Antonio del 1556-1601. Pie de imprenta: México : Oficina Tip. de la Secretaría de Fomento, 1885. Notas: Se reimprime en 1885 bajo el ciudado del Dr. Antonio Peñafiel. Materia: Nahua Gramática. Número de control (Bibid): UANL001007328 Título: Curso catequístico para el uso de las escuelas y colegios ; colección gradual de catecismos de doctrina cristiana, religión y urbanidad arreglos para el seminario de Morelia Autor: Ripalda, Gerónimo de, 1536-1618. Pie de imprenta: México : Imp. de J.M. Lara Materia: Nahua -- Textos. Número de control (Bibid): UANL000175926 Título: Diccionario de aztequismos o sea catálogo de las palabras del idioma nahuatl, azteca o mexicano introducidas al idioma castellano bajo diversas formas / Cecilio A. Robelo. Autor: Robelo, Cecilio Agustín, 1839-1916. Pie de imprenta: Cuernavaca : Imprenta del Autor, 1904. Materia: Nahua -- Diccionarios -- Español. Número de control (Bibid): 70516 Título: Epítome o modo fácil de aprender el idioma nahuatl o lengua mexicana / Faustino Chimalpopoca Autor: Galicia Chimalpopoca, Faustino, m. 1877. Pie de imprenta: México : Tip. de la V. de Murguía e hijos, Portal del Aguila de Oro, [s.a.] Materia: Nahua -- Dialectos. / Nahua -- Gramática. Número de control (Bibid): 67887 Título: Estudio de la filosofía y riqueza de la lengua mexicana / Agustín de la Rosa Autor: Rosa, Agustín de la, 1824-1907. Pie de imprenta: Guadalajara, Jal. : Est. Tip. del Gob., 1889 Materia: Nahua -- Gramática. Número de control (Bibid): 33077 Título: Glosario de voces castellanas, derivadas del idioma Nahuatl o Mexicano / Jesús Sánchez Autor: Sanchez, Jesús. Pie de imprenta: México : Imp. de la Soc. Agricola Mexicana, 1902 Materia: Nahua. / Nahua -- Gramática. Número de control (Bibid): 71927 Título: Gramática del idioma mexicano, según el sistema de Ollendorff/ el presbítero Darío Julio Caballero Autor: Caballero, Darío Julio. Pie de imprenta: México : Tip. Literaria de Filomeno Mata, 1880 Materia: Nahua -- Gramática. Número de control (Bibid): 18438 Título: Historia General de las Cosas de Nueva España / por el R. P. Fr. Bernardino de Sahagún. Autor: Sahagún, Bernardino de, Fray, 1499?-1590. Pie de imprenta: México: impr. del Ciudadano A. Valdés, 1829-9999 Materia: Indios de México -- Antigüedades. / Aztecas. / Calendario mexicano. / Nahua -- Textos. / México -- Historia -- Descubrimiento y conquista, 1517-1521. Número de control (Bibid): 17801 Título: Las aztecas : poesías, tomadas de los antiguos cantares mexicanos / José Joaquín Pesado Pie de imprenta: México : Impr. de V. Segura Arguelles, 1854 Materia: Poesía nahua -- Traducciones al español. / Poesía nahua -- Colecciones. Número de control (Bibid): 33569 Título: Nombres geográficos de México : catálogo alfabético de los nombres de lugar pertenecientes al idioma nahuatl ; estudio geroglífico de la matricula de los tributos del Codice Mendocino / Antonio Peñafiel. Autor: Peñafiel, Antonio, 1831-1922. Pie de imprenta: México : Secretaría de Fomento, 1885, Materia: Nombres geográficos -- México. / Nahua. / Escritura pictórica mexicana. / Codex Mendocino. Número de control (Bibid): 34215 Título: Nombres geográficos indígenas del estado de Morelos : Estudio crítico de varias obras de toponomateología Nahua / el Lic. Cecilio A.Robelo Autor: Robelo, Cecilio Agustín, 1839-1916. Pie de imprenta: Cuernavaca : Impr. Luis G. Miranda, 1897 Materia: Nombres geográficos -- México -- Morelos. / Nahua -- Gramática. / Nahua -- Etimologías -- Nombres. / Indios de México -- Nombres. Número de control (Bibid): 18453 Título: Toponimia maya-hispano-nahoa / por Cecilio A. Robelo. Autor: Robelo, Cecilio Agustín, 1839-1916. Pie de imprenta: Curnavaca: Impr. de José D. Rojas, 1902 Materia: Nombres geográficos -- México. / Nahua -- Etimologías -- Nombres. / Maya -- Etimologías -- Nombres. Número de control (Bibid): 62022 Título: Vocabulario comparativo castellano y náhuatl / Cecilio A. Rabelo Autor: Rabelo, Cecilio Agustín, 1839-1916. Pie de imprenta: Cuernavaca : Luis G. Miranda, 1888 Materia: Nahua -- Diccionarios -- Español. / Español -- Diccionarios -- Nahua. Número de control (Bibid): 34220 Título: Vocabulario comparativo castellano y nahuatl / el Lic. Cecilio A. Robelo Autor: Robelo, Cecilio Agustín, 1839-1916. Pie de imprenta: Cuernavaca : L.G. Miranda, 1888 Materia: Español -- Diccionarios -- Nahua. / Nahua -- Diccionarios -- Español. Número de control (Bibid): 18449 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx bajo la busqueda por Nahuatl Ha buscado : nahuatl Resultados desde el 1 hasta el 7 de un total de 7 encontrados. Nueva búsqueda 1 Título: Diccionario de aztequismos : ó sea, catálogo de las palabras del idioma nahuatl, azteca ó mexicano, introducidos al idioma castellano bajo diversas formas (contribución al diccionario nacional) / Cecilio A. Robelo Autor: Robelo, Cecilio Agustín, 1839-1916. Pie de imprenta: Cuernavaca : Impr. del autor, 1904 Materia: Español -- Provincialismos -- México. / Español -- Palabras y frases de orígen extranjero -- Azteca. Número de control (Bibid): 18397 Título: Diccionario de aztequismos o sea catálogo de las palabras del idioma nahuatl, azteca o mexicano introducidas al idioma castellano bajo diversas formas / Cecilio A. Robelo. Autor: Robelo, Cecilio Agustín, 1839-1916. Pie de imprenta: Cuernavaca : Imprenta del Autor, 1904. Materia: Nahua -- Diccionarios -- Español. Número de control (Bibid): 70516 Título: Epítome o modo fácil de aprender el idioma nahuatl o lengua mexicana / Faustino Chimalpopoca Autor: Galicia Chimalpopoca, Faustino, m. 1877. Pie de imprenta: México : Tip. de la V. de Murguía e hijos, Portal del Aguila de Oro, [s.a.] Materia: Nahua -- Dialectos. / Nahua -- Gramática. Número de control (Bibid): 67887 Título: Glosario de voces castellanas, derivadas del idioma Nahuatl o Mexicano / Jesús Sánchez Autor: Sanchez, Jesús. Pie de imprenta: México : Imp. de la Soc. Agricola Mexicana, 1902 Materia: Nahua. / Nahua -- Gramática. Número de control (Bibid): 71927 Título: Nombres geográficos de México : catálogo alfabético de los nombres de lugar pertenecientes al idioma nahuatl ; estudio geroglífico de la matricula de los tributos del Codice Mendocino / Antonio Peñafiel. Autor: Peñafiel, Antonio, 1831-1922. Pie de imprenta: México : Secretaría de Fomento, 1885, Materia: Nombres geográficos -- México. / Nahua. / Escritura pictórica mexicana. / Codex Mendocino. Número de control (Bibid): 34215 Título: Vocabulario comparativo castellano y náhuatl / Cecilio A. Rabelo Autor: Rabelo, Cecilio Agustín, 1839-1916. Pie de imprenta: Cuernavaca : Luis G. Miranda, 1888 Materia: Nahua -- Diccionarios -- Español. / Español -- Diccionarios -- Nahua. Número de control (Bibid): 34220 Título: Vocabulario comparativo castellano y nahuatl / el Lic. Cecilio A. Robelo Autor: Robelo, Cecilio Agustín, 1839-1916. Pie de imprenta: Cuernavaca : L.G. Miranda, 1888 Materia: Español -- Diccionarios -- Nahua. / Nahua -- Diccionarios -- Español. Número de control (Bibid): 18449 Ha buscado : nahoa Resultados desde el 1 hasta el 3 de un total de 3 encontrados. Título: Diccionario de mitología nahoa / Cecilio A. Robelo. Autor: Robelo, Cecilio Agustín, 1839-1916. Pie de imprenta: México : impr. del Museo Nacional, 1905 Materia: Mitología azteca -- Diccionarios. Número de control (Bibid): 17706 Título: Sinopsis toponímica Nahoa del Distrito Federal Autor: Robelo, Cecilio Agustín, 1839-1916. Pie de imprenta: Cuernavaca, Mor.: Tip. y Lib. José D. Rojas, 1901 Materia: Nombres geográficos -- México. Número de control (Bibid): 18811 Título: Toponimia maya-hispano-nahoa / por Cecilio A. Robelo. Autor: Robelo, Cecilio Agustín, 1839-1916. Pie de imprenta: Curnavaca: Impr. de José D. Rojas, 1902 Materia: Nombres geográficos -- México. / Nahua -- Etimologías -- Nombres. / Maya -- Etimologías -- Nombres. Número de control (Bibid): 62022 Los investigadores interesados en la historia de la conquista y vida colonial de Nueva Galicia, Zacatecas, Jalisco, Nayarit, La Nueva Vizcaya, la rebelion Cazcana, la Tepehuana, la Guerra chichimeca , los Huicholes , los Coras, la arqueologia de la quemada , la independencia de México , el imperio de maximiliano, la epoca santanista, etct, etc encontraran en esta biblioteca verdaderas e inapreciables joyas bibliográficas muchas de ellas inconseguibles de forma física como por ejemplo los textos de Frejes, Arlegui, Mota Padilla, el segundo volumen del padre Tello o la notable historia del zacatecano Elias Amador, la obra de Carlos Maria de Bustamante, etc, etc. DESEO QUE LOS FORITAS PUEDAN RECOMENDAR Y DIFUNDIR ESTE VALIOSO RECURSO QUE OFRECE LA UANL DE MEXICO ENTRE SUS COLEGAS Y ALUMNOS E IMPULSEN SE REPITA SU EJEMPLO ENTRE OTRAS UNIVERSIDADES DE MEXICO Y EL MUNDO COLOCANDO EN LA WEB FONDOS RESERVADOS PARA LA DIFUSIÓN DEL SABER HUMANO Y DE FORMA LIBRE ,GRATUITA Y SIN CONDICIONES. Un saludo para todos desde la hoy muy calurosa "garganta de tierra adentro" en México ROBERTO ROMERO GUTIERREZ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From macuil2 at msn.com Sun May 2 02:10:03 2010 From: macuil2 at msn.com (Raul macuil martinez) Date: Sun, 2 May 2010 04:10:03 +0200 Subject: JOYAS BIBLIOGRAFICAS PARA EL ESTUDIO DEL NAHUATL, OTOMI Y TARASCO ACCESIBLES EN LA WEB In-Reply-To: <000301cae946$ebe29cc0$c3a7d640$@net.mx> Message-ID: El siguiente link es del sitio amoxcalli.org.com En este se encuentran todos los documentos mexicanos que hay en la Biblioteca Nacional de París... Saludos a todos Raul Macuil Martínez. From: t_amaya at megared.net.mx To: cuecuex at gmail.com; Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org Date: Sat, 1 May 2010 10:56:54 -0500 Subject: Re: [Nahuat-l] JOYAS BIBLIOGRAFICAS PARA EL ESTUDIO DEL NAHUATL, OTOMI Y TARASCO ACCESIBLES EN LA WEB Hola Roberto, David y demás Listeros. Con entusiasmo por los libros a los que se puede tener acceso en estas bibliotecas, quiero también quiero hacer de su conocimiento el Link de la Biblioteca Lafragua de la Universidad Autóma de Puebla. http://www.lafragua.buap.mx/ Entre su acervo digital se puede consultar el Códice Sierra y el códice Yanhuitlan. Que los disfruten. Saludos desde Puebla/Namechoyoltlapalohua Cuetlaxcoapanpa’ Tomas Amaya De: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org [mailto:nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org] En nombre de roberto romero Enviado el: Martes, 27 de Abril de 2010 10:38 a.m. Para: Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org Asunto: [Nahuat-l] JOYAS BIBLIOGRAFICAS PARA EL ESTUDIO DEL NAHUATL, OTOMI Y TARASCO ACCESIBLES EN LA WEB Estimados foristas comparto con ustedes el descubrimiento de un verdadero tesoro que libre , gratuita y sin condición alguna ha puesto a disposición de todo quien desee obtenerlo una Universidad Pública, quien mas si no ellas en México, pues las privadas solo exprimen al cliente y conforman oligofrénicos tecnócratas o dipsómanos y crápulas gobernantes como los que desde hace 25 años padecemos en este dolorido y ensangrentrado país llamado México. La Universidad Autónoma de Nuevo León por medio de su Dirección General de Bibliotecas ha hecho una notable obra , encomiable en todos sentidos y digna de admiración, apoyo y respeto; creando la Colección Digital UANL . Un ejemplo que ojala se repita e otras universidad de este país y del mundo. Su dirección es http://cd.dgb.uanl.mx/index.php La UNAL ha puesto en linea parte fondos reservados "El objetivo de esta Colección es difundir los documentos mediante el acceso electrónico al texto completo de los mismos, a la vez que contribuir a su conservación. Tiene como principal antecedente e inspiración el Programa Memoria del Mundo de la UNESCO, cuyo propósito es asegurar la preservación del patrimonio documental de importancia nacional y regional." "La Colección Digital de la UANL está conformada por documentos editados durante los siglos XVI al XIX, en español, italiano, francés y latín, así como por las tesis de postgrado (Maestría, Especialidad y Doctorado) generadas en la UANL y por otros documentos de interés para la investigación. Los documentos de esta colección forman parte de los acervos bibliográficos que poseen la Biblioteca Universitaria Raúl Rangel Frías, Capilla Alfonsina Biblioteca Universitaria, Centro Regional de Información y Documentación en Salud de la Facultad de Medicina y Biblioteca José Juan Vallejo de la Facultad de Derecho y Criminología. La Colección Digital de la UANL, esta integrada actualmente por: 16,766 títulos con 17,430 volúmenes. De manera gratuita, libre ,sin condición alguna , sin tener que recibir basura en tu correo : LOS ESTUDIOSOS DEL NAHUATL A TODO NIVEL ENCUENTRAN EN ÉSTA BIBLIOTECA DIGITAL DE LA UANL VERDADERAS E INAPRECIABLES JOYAS BIBLIOGRÁFICAS COMO: Arte mexicana / compuesta por Antonio del Rincón. México: Oficina Tip. de la Secretaría de Fomento, 1885. Edicion preparada por Antonio Peñafiel Arte Mexicana por el jesuita Antonio del Rincon , indio texocoano y que fue publicado originalmente en 1595, Nahuatl texcocano EN ESTE MISMO VOLUMEN SE ENCUENTRA TAMBIEN PUBLICADO Arte de la lengua mexicana por el Padre Horacio Carochi. Los estudiosos del Nahuatl saben lo valioso que es esta joya publicada originalmente en 1695 Arte de la Lengua tarasca de Diego de Basalenque publicada en 1714 Todo esto manjar en el siguiente link http://cdigital.dgb.uanl.mx/la/1080018793/1080018793.html y la muy interezante obra del Nahuatl de la región cazcana, DE JALISCO, ZACATECAS Y DURANGO se encuentra ésta edición preparada por el notable historiador Santoscoy.y publiicada en 1900: Arte de lengua mexicana que fue usual entre los indios del Obispado de Guadalajara y de parte de los de Durango y Michoacán, escrito en 1692 / por Fr. Juan Guerra.Guadalajara, Jal.: Ancira y Hno., 1900. http://cdigital.dgb.uanl.mx/la/1080013823/1080013823.html Y tamabien con varios materiales mas incluidos en este volumen encontramos: Título: Arte de la lengua mexicana / el Br. en sagrada teología Rafael Sandoval Autor: Sandoval, Rafael Tiburcio. Pie de imprenta: México : Tip. La Reproducción, 1888 Materia: Nahua -- Gramática. Número de control (Bibid): 18443 http://cdigital.dgb.uanl.mx/la/1080013824/1080013824.html Y para los estudiosos del otomi como nuestro siempre generoso forista David Wright que sufre con las ventas de libros frudulentos o mal editados la biblioteca digital de la UNAL contiene esto: Luces de Otomí ó gramática del idioma que hablan los indios otomíes en la República Mexicana / por Eustaquio Buelna. Autor: Buelna, Eustaquio, 1830-1907. Pie de imprenta: México: Imp. del Gobierno Federal, 1893 Materia: Indios de México -- Lenguas. / Otomíes. Número de control (Bibid): 17692 Este trae en su Libro segundo puro manajar para los estudiosos del otomi pues contienene este libro segundo: Luces del Otomí observadas á tres famosos lenguaraces, los padres Horacio Carochi y Francisco Jiménez, de la Compañía de Jesús, u Juan Sánchez de la Baquera, secular de Tula. Y en su Capítulo vigésimo primero - Capítulo vigésimo segundo Capítulo vigésimo primero. Luz de algunos adverbios que usaban los discípulos de Juan Sánchez. Capítulo vigésimo segundo. Diccionario formado de algunos términos observados en algunos papeles y discípulos de Juan Sánchez de la Baquera. Libro tercero. De las luces que útilmente se consiguieron de D. Luís de Neve, presbítero, sinodal de este Arzobispado. http://cdigital.dgb.uanl.mx/la/1080012545/1080012545.html Título: Luces del otomi ó gramática del idioma que hablan los indios otomíes en la republica mexicana, compuesta / un padre de la compañía de Jesús Autor: [Basilio, Tomas], 1654- Pie de imprenta: México : Imp. del Gobierno Federal, 1893 Materia: Otomí. Número de control (Bibid): 66154 Es el contenido anterior de la edición de don Eustaquio Buelna, sabio sinaloense. http://cdigital.dgb.uanl.mx/la/1080043172/1080043172.html Título: Lenguas indígenas de México : Familia mixteco - zapoteco y sus relaciones con el otomi.- Familia zoque-mixe.-chontal.- Huave y mexicano / Francisco Belmar Autor: Belmar, Francisco, 1859 Pie de imprenta: México : Impr. Particular, 1905 Materia: Indios de México -- Lenguas. Número de control (Bibid): 34290 http://cdigital.dgb.uanl.mx/la/1080018786/1080018786.html A continuación comparto el resultado de la busqueda de titulos en esta Biblioteca virtual por medio de distintas palabras clave. Encontrando los siguientes materiales utiles para el estudio del Nahuatl: Ha buscado : nahua Resultados desde el 1 hasta el 10 de un total de 18 encontrados. Nueva búsqueda Título: Annales de Domingo Francisco de San Anton Chimalpahin Cuauhtlehuanitzin, sixieme et septieme relations (1258-1612) Autor: Chimalpain Cuauhtlehuanitzin, Domingo Francisco de San Antón Muñón, 1579-1660. Pie de imprenta: París : Maisonneuve et Ch. Leclerc, 1889 Materia: Nahua -- Textos. / México -- Historia. Número de control (Bibid): 17309 Título: Arte de la lengua mexicana / el Br. en sagrada teología Rafael Sandoval Autor: Sandoval, Rafael Tiburcio. Pie de imprenta: México : Tip. La Reproducción, 1888 Materia: Nahua -- Gramática. Número de control (Bibid): 18443 Título: Arte de lengua mexicana que fué usual entre los indios del obispado de Guadalajara y de parte de los de Durango y Michoacán, escrito en 1692 / Fr. Juan Guerra Autor: Guerra, Juan, fl. 1690. Pie de imprenta: Guadalajara, Jal. : Ancira y Hno., 1900 Materia: Nahua -- Gramática. Número de control (Bibid): 18442 Título: Arte mexicana. / compuesta por Antonio del Rincón Autor: Rincón, Antonio del, 1556-1601. Pie de imprenta: México : Oficina Tip. de la Secretaría de Fomento, 1885 Materia: Nahua -- Gramática. Número de control (Bibid): 34299 Título: Arte mexicana. compuesta por el padre Antonio del Rincón de la Compañia de Jesus ; dirigido al illustrissimo y reverendissimo S. Don Diego Romano Obispo de Tlaxcallan y el consejo de su Magestad &c. en México en casa de Pedro Balli, 1595. Autor: Rincón, Antonio del 1556-1601. Pie de imprenta: México : Oficina Tip. de la Secretaría de Fomento, 1885. Notas: Se reimprime en 1885 bajo el ciudado del Dr. Antonio Peñafiel. Materia: Nahua Gramática. Número de control (Bibid): UANL001007328 Título: Curso catequístico para el uso de las escuelas y colegios ; colección gradual de catecismos de doctrina cristiana, religión y urbanidad arreglos para el seminario de Morelia Autor: Ripalda, Gerónimo de, 1536-1618. Pie de imprenta: México : Imp. de J.M. Lara Materia: Nahua -- Textos. Número de control (Bibid): UANL000175926 Título: Diccionario de aztequismos o sea catálogo de las palabras del idioma nahuatl, azteca o mexicano introducidas al idioma castellano bajo diversas formas / Cecilio A. Robelo. Autor: Robelo, Cecilio Agustín, 1839-1916. Pie de imprenta: Cuernavaca : Imprenta del Autor, 1904. Materia: Nahua -- Diccionarios -- Español. Número de control (Bibid): 70516 Título: Epítome o modo fácil de aprender el idioma nahuatl o lengua mexicana / Faustino Chimalpopoca Autor: Galicia Chimalpopoca, Faustino, m. 1877. Pie de imprenta: México : Tip. de la V. de Murguía e hijos, Portal del Aguila de Oro, [s.a.] Materia: Nahua -- Dialectos. / Nahua -- Gramática. Número de control (Bibid): 67887 Título: Estudio de la filosofía y riqueza de la lengua mexicana / Agustín de la Rosa Autor: Rosa, Agustín de la, 1824-1907. Pie de imprenta: Guadalajara, Jal. : Est. Tip. del Gob., 1889 Materia: Nahua -- Gramática. Número de control (Bibid): 33077 Título: Glosario de voces castellanas, derivadas del idioma Nahuatl o Mexicano / Jesús Sánchez Autor: Sanchez, Jesús. Pie de imprenta: México : Imp. de la Soc. Agricola Mexicana, 1902 Materia: Nahua. / Nahua -- Gramática. Número de control (Bibid): 71927 Título: Gramática del idioma mexicano, según el sistema de Ollendorff/ el presbítero Darío Julio Caballero Autor: Caballero, Darío Julio. Pie de imprenta: México : Tip. Literaria de Filomeno Mata, 1880 Materia: Nahua -- Gramática. Número de control (Bibid): 18438 Título: Historia General de las Cosas de Nueva España / por el R. P. Fr. Bernardino de Sahagún. Autor: Sahagún, Bernardino de, Fray, 1499?-1590. Pie de imprenta: México: impr. del Ciudadano A. Valdés, 1829-9999 Materia: Indios de México -- Antigüedades. / Aztecas. / Calendario mexicano. / Nahua -- Textos. / México -- Historia -- Descubrimiento y conquista, 1517-1521. Número de control (Bibid): 17801 Título: Las aztecas : poesías, tomadas de los antiguos cantares mexicanos / José Joaquín Pesado Pie de imprenta: México : Impr. de V. Segura Arguelles, 1854 Materia: Poesía nahua -- Traducciones al español. / Poesía nahua -- Colecciones. Número de control (Bibid): 33569 Título: Nombres geográficos de México : catálogo alfabético de los nombres de lugar pertenecientes al idioma nahuatl ; estudio geroglífico de la matricula de los tributos del Codice Mendocino / Antonio Peñafiel. Autor: Peñafiel, Antonio, 1831-1922. Pie de imprenta: México : Secretaría de Fomento, 1885, Materia: Nombres geográficos -- México. / Nahua. / Escritura pictórica mexicana. / Codex Mendocino. Número de control (Bibid): 34215 Título: Nombres geográficos indígenas del estado de Morelos : Estudio crítico de varias obras de toponomateología Nahua / el Lic. Cecilio A.Robelo Autor: Robelo, Cecilio Agustín, 1839-1916. Pie de imprenta: Cuernavaca : Impr. Luis G. Miranda, 1897 Materia: Nombres geográficos -- México -- Morelos. / Nahua -- Gramática. / Nahua -- Etimologías -- Nombres. / Indios de México -- Nombres. Número de control (Bibid): 18453 Título: Toponimia maya-hispano-nahoa / por Cecilio A. Robelo. Autor: Robelo, Cecilio Agustín, 1839-1916. Pie de imprenta: Curnavaca: Impr. de José D. Rojas, 1902 Materia: Nombres geográficos -- México. / Nahua -- Etimologías -- Nombres. / Maya -- Etimologías -- Nombres. Número de control (Bibid): 62022 Título: Vocabulario comparativo castellano y náhuatl / Cecilio A. Rabelo Autor: Rabelo, Cecilio Agustín, 1839-1916. Pie de imprenta: Cuernavaca : Luis G. Miranda, 1888 Materia: Nahua -- Diccionarios -- Español. / Español -- Diccionarios -- Nahua. Número de control (Bibid): 34220 Título: Vocabulario comparativo castellano y nahuatl / el Lic. Cecilio A. Robelo Autor: Robelo, Cecilio Agustín, 1839-1916. Pie de imprenta: Cuernavaca : L.G. Miranda, 1888 Materia: Español -- Diccionarios -- Nahua. / Nahua -- Diccionarios -- Español. Número de control (Bibid): 18449 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx bajo la busqueda por Nahuatl Ha buscado : nahuatl Resultados desde el 1 hasta el 7 de un total de 7 encontrados. Nueva búsqueda 1 Título: Diccionario de aztequismos : ó sea, catálogo de las palabras del idioma nahuatl, azteca ó mexicano, introducidos al idioma castellano bajo diversas formas (contribución al diccionario nacional) / Cecilio A. Robelo Autor: Robelo, Cecilio Agustín, 1839-1916. Pie de imprenta: Cuernavaca : Impr. del autor, 1904 Materia: Español -- Provincialismos -- México. / Español -- Palabras y frases de orígen extranjero -- Azteca. Número de control (Bibid): 18397 Título: Diccionario de aztequismos o sea catálogo de las palabras del idioma nahuatl, azteca o mexicano introducidas al idioma castellano bajo diversas formas / Cecilio A. Robelo. Autor: Robelo, Cecilio Agustín, 1839-1916. Pie de imprenta: Cuernavaca : Imprenta del Autor, 1904. Materia: Nahua -- Diccionarios -- Español. Número de control (Bibid): 70516 Título: Epítome o modo fácil de aprender el idioma nahuatl o lengua mexicana / Faustino Chimalpopoca Autor: Galicia Chimalpopoca, Faustino, m. 1877. Pie de imprenta: México : Tip. de la V. de Murguía e hijos, Portal del Aguila de Oro, [s.a.] Materia: Nahua -- Dialectos. / Nahua -- Gramática. Número de control (Bibid): 67887 Título: Glosario de voces castellanas, derivadas del idioma Nahuatl o Mexicano / Jesús Sánchez Autor: Sanchez, Jesús. Pie de imprenta: México : Imp. de la Soc. Agricola Mexicana, 1902 Materia: Nahua. / Nahua -- Gramática. Número de control (Bibid): 71927 Título: Nombres geográficos de México : catálogo alfabético de los nombres de lugar pertenecientes al idioma nahuatl ; estudio geroglífico de la matricula de los tributos del Codice Mendocino / Antonio Peñafiel. Autor: Peñafiel, Antonio, 1831-1922. Pie de imprenta: México : Secretaría de Fomento, 1885, Materia: Nombres geográficos -- México. / Nahua. / Escritura pictórica mexicana. / Codex Mendocino. Número de control (Bibid): 34215 Título: Vocabulario comparativo castellano y náhuatl / Cecilio A. Rabelo Autor: Rabelo, Cecilio Agustín, 1839-1916. Pie de imprenta: Cuernavaca : Luis G. Miranda, 1888 Materia: Nahua -- Diccionarios -- Español. / Español -- Diccionarios -- Nahua. Número de control (Bibid): 34220 Título: Vocabulario comparativo castellano y nahuatl / el Lic. Cecilio A. Robelo Autor: Robelo, Cecilio Agustín, 1839-1916. Pie de imprenta: Cuernavaca : L.G. Miranda, 1888 Materia: Español -- Diccionarios -- Nahua. / Nahua -- Diccionarios -- Español. Número de control (Bibid): 18449 Ha buscado : nahoa Resultados desde el 1 hasta el 3 de un total de 3 encontrados. Título: Diccionario de mitología nahoa / Cecilio A. Robelo. Autor: Robelo, Cecilio Agustín, 1839-1916. Pie de imprenta: México : impr. del Museo Nacional, 1905 Materia: Mitología azteca -- Diccionarios. Número de control (Bibid): 17706 Título: Sinopsis toponímica Nahoa del Distrito Federal Autor: Robelo, Cecilio Agustín, 1839-1916. Pie de imprenta: Cuernavaca, Mor.: Tip. y Lib. José D. Rojas, 1901 Materia: Nombres geográficos -- México. Número de control (Bibid): 18811 Título: Toponimia maya-hispano-nahoa / por Cecilio A. Robelo. Autor: Robelo, Cecilio Agustín, 1839-1916. Pie de imprenta: Curnavaca: Impr. de José D. Rojas, 1902 Materia: Nombres geográficos -- México. / Nahua -- Etimologías -- Nombres. / Maya -- Etimologías -- Nombres. Número de control (Bibid): 62022 Los investigadores interesados en la historia de la conquista y vida colonial de Nueva Galicia, Zacatecas, Jalisco, Nayarit, La Nueva Vizcaya, la rebelion Cazcana, la Tepehuana, la Guerra chichimeca , los Huicholes , los Coras, la arqueologia de la quemada , la independencia de México , el imperio de maximiliano, la epoca santanista, etct, etc encontraran en esta biblioteca verdaderas e inapreciables joyas bibliográficas muchas de ellas inconseguibles de forma física como por ejemplo los textos de Frejes, Arlegui, Mota Padilla, el segundo volumen del padre Tello o la notable historia del zacatecano Elias Amador, la obra de Carlos Maria de Bustamante, etc, etc. DESEO QUE LOS FORITAS PUEDAN RECOMENDAR Y DIFUNDIR ESTE VALIOSO RECURSO QUE OFRECE LA UANL DE MEXICO ENTRE SUS COLEGAS Y ALUMNOS E IMPULSEN SE REPITA SU EJEMPLO ENTRE OTRAS UNIVERSIDADES DE MEXICO Y EL MUNDO COLOCANDO EN LA WEB FONDOS RESERVADOS PARA LA DIFUSIÓN DEL SABER HUMANO Y DE FORMA LIBRE ,GRATUITA Y SIN CONDICIONES. Un saludo para todos desde la hoy muy calurosa "garganta de tierra adentro" en México ROBERTO ROMERO GUTIERREZ _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: as HOT as always www.hotmailhotness.com.mx -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Thu May 6 01:49:50 2010 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Wed, 5 May 2010 21:49:50 -0400 Subject: present progressive and some ideas about it Message-ID: Hui, Tomas! Ce tepetl in titechmacac! Tel in cenca cualli ohtli. Nictotocaz. Tlaxtlahui. Michael Quoting Tomas Amaya : > Hello MIchael and Listeros > > > > In these lines I’d like to go back to present progressive and such matters > in Nahuatl. > > > > You know that many verbal terms, depending on their ending, may indicate a > intransitive or transitive action, e.g. tlapani vs. tlatlapana; polihui vs. > tlapolohua, etc. > > > > I am going to talk about the way in which the auxiliary verbal-particles ca > and oc are used by Nahuat-monolingual people and Spanish-Nahuat bilingual > people that cultivate a traditional Nahuat at home and with neighbors in the > Nahuat-speaking region of Cuetzalan, where I have a house and family. > > > > I am going to use “TL”, though the Nahuat-pronunciation for this letter is > “T” (with the tip of the tongue on the upper part of frontal teeth). Let’s > begin. > > > > 1. The verbal ihcuilohua. Transitive: Nitlahcuilohua (I paint/write). > Intransitive: ihcuilihui (it gets painted / it gets written; in Spanish: se > escribe / se pinta. E.g. ihcuilihui ica toezyo, in Sp.: se escribe/pinta con > sangre; in English something like: It gets painted with blood.). > > 2. If I say nitlahcuilohtoc, I’m meaning something like “I am > painting”, but for me, a better way of expressing it, is: At the moment, I > am in the situation of someone who paints). V.g.: ahmo xinechcuehmolo, > nitlacuilohtoc! (Don’t bother me, I’m painting). > > 3. If I say nitlahcuilohtica, I’m meaning: I paint, I usually paint; v > .g.: Ce meztli ya nitlahcuilohtica (I write/paint since a month ago/ I am > writing since a month ago), i.e. since a month ago, I am in the usual state > of someone who paints. Another example: “X tlon ticcchihua mohmoztlah?” – > “Nitlahcuilohtica, yn neh nitlahcuilohqui” (“What do you do every day?,” – > “I paint, I usually paint, I am a painter”). > > 4. If you write ihcuiliuhtoc, you have taken ihcuiliuh, the short form > of ihcuilihui, that at its turn comes from ihcuil/maybe ihcuilli. It has the > idea of “paint, take form”, being “ihui” the sound that brings action to the > stem (in this case an intransitive action=> ihcuilihui: it is painted/it > gets painted). Thus, ihcuiliuhtoc means: it is in the state of a paint; it > is in the state of something painted. > > 5. If you write ihcuilohtica you mean: it is (has been and maybe will > be) in the state of a paint; it is in the state of something that has been > painted ant normally will remain so. > > 6. If you say ihcuilohtoc, you take ihcuiloh, the short form of > ihcuiloa, that at its turn comes also from ihcuil/maybe ihcuilli. It has the > idea of “paint, to fashion”, being “ohua/oa” the sound that brings action to > the stem (in this case a transitive action => (tla)ihcuilohua, that paints > (something) ). But what is the meaning of “ihcuilohua” without “tla” > (object)?, it means –after discussions with my wife, who has nahuat as > mother language— : (of) writing or (of) painting /Spanish: (de) escribir o > pintar; escrito o pintado. Then you are meaning: it is written; it has been > written; it is now in writing (Spanish: está escrito, ha sido escrito, en > forma escrita), cfr. the use of these endings in Chimalpahin and Sahagun) > > 7. If you say ihcuilohtica, you are meaning it has been written. It is > in the situation of something that is or has been written; better said: (it > is) in writing. > > 8. So, I’ll write an example. Yn nonamic tlahcuilohtica ica > tlapohualoni, yehce yequintzin ahmo tlahcuilohtoc. Yalhua tlei za’ in > nechihcuilohuilih, xiquitta: nican itech inhin amatl ihcuilohtoc: “ahmo > nitequitiznequi oc”. Axcan ahmo neci yn nonamic. Xo quizac ohpan. > > Nican, xiquitta occe amatl in onca’. Ynhin ce iin namatl techmacacqueh ce > xihuititih ya’ ne teopan, in itech ihcuilohtica: “ahmo quemann nihuintiz”. > Huan axcan xiquitta, axá tlahuantinemi inhuan inamigotes. > > Mmmh, Huel niquelnamiqui quenyuh quilhuih in teopixcatl: “Itech in Biblia > ihcuiliuhtica “amo titlayiz miec, ce copa za’ quemeh totahtzin Yezuz”. > > Ahmo quinectica tlayeccaquiz. Ce meztica tlahuantiyez huan zatepan: > Tepahtihqui huan tomin. Tiquitztozqueh quenyun nochi tlamiz: quitenamacaz in > tepoztlapohualoni, garahuadora, tele, nochi. ¡Cabron!. Cani yn ihcuilohtica > inic nochipa yetoz ce cihuat ihuan ihuehue mazqui mooztlah huenhuentica? > > Translation. My husband usually writes with a computer, but now he is not > witting. Yesterday he wrote something to me, just look: on this paper it is > written: “I do not want to work any more”. Now my husband has disappeared. > Probably he went out. > > Here, you see, there is another paper. This is a paper that was given to us > a year ago in the church. Thereon it is in writing: “I will never get drunk > again”. And now you can see, maybe he is going over there drinking with his > fellows. > > Mmmh, I remember very well what the priest said to him: On the Bible it is > written: “you shall not drink a lot, just a cup, like our Father Jesus”. He > has not wanted to listen. He will be drinking a month along and after that: > doctor and money. We will be seeing how everything will finish: he will sell > the computer, the tape-recorder, TV, everything, Cabrón!. Where is it > written that a woman must remain with her partner although he is drunk every > day? > > 9. One last example: Yn axno ilpi’toc = the donkey is tied; Yn axno > ilpihtoc = I have the donkey tied, the first indicates an intransitive > action, the second a transitive one. > > > > Notes: > > 1. Nahuat-speaking people of Cuetzalan Region prefer the use of oc, > instead of ca. > > 2. See an example in Sahagún, “Adiciones, Apéndice a la Postilla y > Ejercicio Cotidiano”, Ed. de J. O. Anderson, UNAM, México; p. 156: “Yn ipan > Sancto Evangelio icuiliuhtoc. “, see also p. 184: “Jn Sancto Euangelio ipan > ihcuiliuhto(c) tlapallotoc, tlillotoc in tlahtolli ” > > 3. En Chimalpahin: Tercera Relación, III Tochtli xihuitl, 1326: “Auh > yn Acacitli ye quitohua in yoyahue tloquehenahuaquehe ca yehuatl in ynic > nicocha yn n Acacitli yn Chapoltepec yn popoliuhtoc yn notatzin yhuân yn > Azcatl Xochtzin yn noteyccaztzin”. My translation: “And then the mentioned > Acachitli expresses: ahh God, I, Acacitli, I cry because it is in > Chapultepec where my father has (is) perished together with my younger > brother”; in V Tochtli xihuitl, 1510: “Nican neztica yn iquac peuh y > hualmoquequetzaya yn ilhuicatitech yn tlanextli yn iuhqui mixpanitl auh > nohuian ohuallitoc yn cemanahuac yn techyahuallotoc nohuian onetetzahuilloc > y tlanextli yn hualmoquequetzaya. My translation: “Hier it is expressed > about the time when (addressing to us) a light rose on the sky in the form > of a cloud-display that was seen in the whole country around. This light has > surrounded us everywhere as it was rising. > > 4. A last comment about ihcuil, the stem of verbal-forms ihcuilihui > and ihcuilohua. Maybe, I say maybe, it comes from iuhcui, i. e. take form. > It is the same idea of build in English and bilden in German. This way, > ihcuilohua may mean to give form to something (someone). Remember that > there is a poem (translated by Leon Portilla, where it is written: > “Techihcuilohua in ipalnemohuani” = God write us, i.e. God fashions us. > German: Uns gestalt Gott. Spanisch: nos pinta el Dador de la Vida. > > > > Dear Listeros, I think I have written too much. Maybe I have gone too far. > > > > Timottazque occepa. Hasta la próxima. > > > > Tomas Amaya. > > > > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Thu May 6 03:33:25 2010 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Wed, 5 May 2010 23:33:25 -0400 Subject: modern terms Message-ID: Listerotzitziné, Susana sent me this about a month ago, and I just got around to looking at it. It contains names of modern items I'm not familiar with. Could someone chime in and offer some feedback for her terms. Some of you who work with modern dialects may have some good things to offer. Tlazohcamati. Michael ----- Forwarded message from susana at losrancheros.org ----- Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 17:04:51 +0200 From: Susana Moraleda Reply-To: Susana Moraleda Subject: Re: [Nahuat-l] adjectives To: Michael McCafferty table/desk - ACOPECHTLI pencil - TECONALLI copybook (cahier) - AMAMACHIOTL eraser - TETLAIXPOLHUIANI exercise (like one for a Nahuatl lesson) - ?? page - AMAIZHUATL Thanks again. Susana ----- End forwarded message ----- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From t_amaya at megared.net.mx Wed May 5 22:50:45 2010 From: t_amaya at megared.net.mx (Tomas Amaya) Date: Wed, 5 May 2010 17:50:45 -0500 Subject: present progressive and some ideas about it Message-ID: Hello MIchael and Listeros In these lines I’d like to go back to present progressive and such matters in Nahuatl. You know that many verbal terms, depending on their ending, may indicate a intransitive or transitive action, e.g. tlapani vs. tlatlapana; polihui vs. tlapolohua, etc. I am going to talk about the way in which the auxiliary verbal-particles ca and oc are used by Nahuat-monolingual people and Spanish-Nahuat bilingual people that cultivate a traditional Nahuat at home and with neighbors in the Nahuat-speaking region of Cuetzalan, where I have a house and family. I am going to use “TL”, though the Nahuat-pronunciation for this letter is “T” (with the tip of the tongue on the upper part of frontal teeth). Let’s begin. 1. The verbal ihcuilohua. Transitive: Nitlahcuilohua (I paint/write). Intransitive: ihcuilihui (it gets painted / it gets written; in Spanish: se escribe / se pinta. E.g. ihcuilihui ica toezyo, in Sp.: se escribe/pinta con sangre; in English something like: It gets painted with blood.). 2. If I say nitlahcuilohtoc, I’m meaning something like “I am painting”, but for me, a better way of expressing it, is: At the moment, I am in the situation of someone who paints). V.g.: ahmo xinechcuehmolo, nitlacuilohtoc! (Don’t bother me, I’m painting). 3. If I say nitlahcuilohtica, I’m meaning: I paint, I usually paint; v .g.: Ce meztli ya nitlahcuilohtica (I write/paint since a month ago/ I am writing since a month ago), i.e. since a month ago, I am in the usual state of someone who paints. Another example: “X tlon ticcchihua mohmoztlah?” – “Nitlahcuilohtica, yn neh nitlahcuilohqui” (“What do you do every day?,” – “I paint, I usually paint, I am a painter”). 4. If you write ihcuiliuhtoc, you have taken ihcuiliuh, the short form of ihcuilihui, that at its turn comes from ihcuil/maybe ihcuilli. It has the idea of “paint, take form”, being “ihui” the sound that brings action to the stem (in this case an intransitive action=> ihcuilihui: it is painted/it gets painted). Thus, ihcuiliuhtoc means: it is in the state of a paint; it is in the state of something painted. 5. If you write ihcuilohtica you mean: it is (has been and maybe will be) in the state of a paint; it is in the state of something that has been painted ant normally will remain so. 6. If you say ihcuilohtoc, you take ihcuiloh, the short form of ihcuiloa, that at its turn comes also from ihcuil/maybe ihcuilli. It has the idea of “paint, to fashion”, being “ohua/oa” the sound that brings action to the stem (in this case a transitive action => (tla)ihcuilohua, that paints (something) ). But what is the meaning of “ihcuilohua” without “tla” (object)?, it means –after discussions with my wife, who has nahuat as mother language— : (of) writing or (of) painting /Spanish: (de) escribir o pintar; escrito o pintado. Then you are meaning: it is written; it has been written; it is now in writing (Spanish: está escrito, ha sido escrito, en forma escrita), cfr. the use of these endings in Chimalpahin and Sahagun) 7. If you say ihcuilohtica, you are meaning it has been written. It is in the situation of something that is or has been written; better said: (it is) in writing. 8. So, I’ll write an example. Yn nonamic tlahcuilohtica ica tlapohualoni, yehce yequintzin ahmo tlahcuilohtoc. Yalhua tlei za’ in nechihcuilohuilih, xiquitta: nican itech inhin amatl ihcuilohtoc: “ahmo nitequitiznequi oc”. Axcan ahmo neci yn nonamic. Xo quizac ohpan. Nican, xiquitta occe amatl in onca’. Ynhin ce iin namatl techmacacqueh ce xihuititih ya’ ne teopan, in itech ihcuilohtica: “ahmo quemann nihuintiz”. Huan axcan xiquitta, axá tlahuantinemi inhuan inamigotes. Mmmh, Huel niquelnamiqui quenyuh quilhuih in teopixcatl: “Itech in Biblia ihcuiliuhtica “amo titlayiz miec, ce copa za’ quemeh totahtzin Yezuz”. Ahmo quinectica tlayeccaquiz. Ce meztica tlahuantiyez huan zatepan: Tepahtihqui huan tomin. Tiquitztozqueh quenyun nochi tlamiz: quitenamacaz in tepoztlapohualoni, garahuadora, tele, nochi. ¡Cabron!. Cani yn ihcuilohtica inic nochipa yetoz ce cihuat ihuan ihuehue mazqui mooztlah huenhuentica? Translation. My husband usually writes with a computer, but now he is not witting. Yesterday he wrote something to me, just look: on this paper it is written: “I do not want to work any more”. Now my husband has disappeared. Probably he went out. Here, you see, there is another paper. This is a paper that was given to us a year ago in the church. Thereon it is in writing: “I will never get drunk again”. And now you can see, maybe he is going over there drinking with his fellows. Mmmh, I remember very well what the priest said to him: On the Bible it is written: “you shall not drink a lot, just a cup, like our Father Jesus”. He has not wanted to listen. He will be drinking a month along and after that: doctor and money. We will be seeing how everything will finish: he will sell the computer, the tape-recorder, TV, everything, Cabrón!. Where is it written that a woman must remain with her partner although he is drunk every day? 9. One last example: Yn axno ilpi’toc = the donkey is tied; Yn axno ilpihtoc = I have the donkey tied, the first indicates an intransitive action, the second a transitive one. Notes: 1. Nahuat-speaking people of Cuetzalan Region prefer the use of oc, instead of ca. 2. See an example in Sahagún, “Adiciones, Apéndice a la Postilla y Ejercicio Cotidiano”, Ed. de J. O. Anderson, UNAM, México; p. 156: “Yn ipan Sancto Evangelio icuiliuhtoc. “, see also p. 184: “Jn Sancto Euangelio ipan ihcuiliuhto(c) tlapallotoc, tlillotoc in tlahtolli ” 3. En Chimalpahin: Tercera Relación, III Tochtli xihuitl, 1326: “Auh yn Acacitli ye quitohua in yoyahue tloquehenahuaquehe ca yehuatl in ynic nicocha yn n Acacitli yn Chapoltepec yn popoliuhtoc yn notatzin yhuân yn Azcatl Xochtzin yn noteyccaztzin”. My translation: “And then the mentioned Acachitli expresses: ahh God, I, Acacitli, I cry because it is in Chapultepec where my father has (is) perished together with my younger brother”; in V Tochtli xihuitl, 1510: “Nican neztica yn iquac peuh y hualmoquequetzaya yn ilhuicatitech yn tlanextli yn iuhqui mixpanitl auh nohuian ohuallitoc yn cemanahuac yn techyahuallotoc nohuian onetetzahuilloc y tlanextli yn hualmoquequetzaya. My translation: “Hier it is expressed about the time when (addressing to us) a light rose on the sky in the form of a cloud-display that was seen in the whole country around. This light has surrounded us everywhere as it was rising. 4. A last comment about ihcuil, the stem of verbal-forms ihcuilihui and ihcuilohua. Maybe, I say maybe, it comes from iuhcui, i. e. take form. It is the same idea of build in English and bilden in German. This way, ihcuilohua may mean to give form to something (someone). Remember that there is a poem (translated by Leon Portilla, where it is written: “Techihcuilohua in ipalnemohuani” = God write us, i.e. God fashions us. German: Uns gestalt Gott. Spanisch: nos pinta el Dador de la Vida. Dear Listeros, I think I have written too much. Maybe I have gone too far. Timottazque occepa. Hasta la próxima. Tomas Amaya. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From idiez at me.com Thu May 6 13:46:05 2010 From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan, Ph.D.) Date: Thu, 6 May 2010 08:46:05 -0500 Subject: applicative a>i Message-ID: Listeros, I was taught that when transitive verbs ending in -a take the applicative suffix -lia, that final -a of the verb root changes to -i. The more I look at it, the more it seems that what is actually happening is that the transitive form reverts to the intransitive form, ending in -i (which in many cases is not used by itself) before adding the applicative suffix. The following examples are from modern Huastecan Nahuatl. 1. cahui ("to become loose", only attested in mahcauhtoc, "it/they are loose) > cahua, "to leave s.t." > cahuilia, "to leave s.t. for s.o.) 2. tzacui ("to become closed", only attested in tzauctoc, "it is closed") > tzacua, to close/enclose s.t." > tzacuilia, "to get in s.o.ʻs way" or "to prop s.t. up") 3. temi, "for s.t. to fill or swell" > tema, "to empty things out (into a container)" > temilia, "to fill s.t. up" John John Sullivan, Ph.D. Professor of Nahua language and culture Universidad Autónoma de Zacatecas Zacatecas Institute of Teaching and Research in Ethnology Tacuba 152, int. 43 Centro Histórico Zacatecas, Zac. 98000 Mexico Work: +52 (492) 925-3415 Fax: +1 (858) 724-3030 (U.S.A.) Home: +52 (492) 768-6048 Mobile: +52 1 (492) 103-0195 idiez at me.com www.macehualli.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Thu May 6 19:37:46 2010 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Thu, 6 May 2010 15:37:46 -0400 Subject: applicative a>i In-Reply-To: <4865FBAA-0A5A-48EE-9CB6-F151F2EEC4C0@me.com> Message-ID: Hi, John, The thing is, you don't get, for example, *piyilia:, piyalia. And long /a:/ certainly doesn't change: ma:ma:lia:, not *ma:mi:lia: But, sure, cho:ca, zaca, chi:hua, mo:tla, quetza... I've always thought the changes you talk about were examples of /a/ assimilating to the /i/ of /-lia:/. I hope that Joe is around and can chime in. Thanks for the thoughts, Michael Quoting "John Sullivan, Ph.D." : > Listeros, > I was taught that when transitive verbs ending in -a take the > applicative suffix -lia, that final -a of the verb root changes to > -i. The more I look at it, the more it seems that what is actually > happening is that the transitive form reverts to the intransitive > form, ending in -i (which in many cases is not used by itself) before > adding the applicative suffix. The following examples are from modern > Huastecan Nahuatl. > 1. cahui ("to become loose", only attested in mahcauhtoc, "it/they > are loose) > cahua, "to leave s.t." > cahuilia, "to leave s.t. for > s.o.) > 2. tzacui ("to become closed", only attested in tzauctoc, "it is > closed") > tzacua, to close/enclose s.t." > tzacuilia, "to get in > s.o.?s way" or "to prop s.t. up") > 3. temi, "for s.t. to fill or swell" > tema, "to empty things out > (into a container)" > temilia, "to fill s.t. up" > John > > John Sullivan, Ph.D. > Professor of Nahua language and culture > Universidad Autónoma de Zacatecas > Zacatecas Institute of Teaching and Research in Ethnology > Tacuba 152, int. 43 > Centro Histórico > Zacatecas, Zac. 98000 > Mexico > Work: +52 (492) 925-3415 > Fax: +1 (858) 724-3030 (U.S.A.) > Home: +52 (492) 768-6048 > Mobile: +52 1 (492) 103-0195 > idiez at me.com > www.macehualli.org > > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From idiez at me.com Thu May 6 20:34:37 2010 From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan, Ph.D.) Date: Thu, 6 May 2010 15:34:37 -0500 Subject: applicative without apostrophes Message-ID: Listeros, It looks like someone in cyberspace doesnt like apostrophes, so here is my post minus them. Hi Michael, You picked strange verbs for the objections. "Piya" is a special case because it is probably made of the older verb "pi", "to pull at s.t." and the durative "ya", so its actually a compound root. In modern Huastecan Nahuatl there is only one class 4 verb that has a regular applicative form: "nahua", "to carry s.o. or s.t. in ones arms" goes to "nahuilia", "to carry s.o. elses baby in ones arms". "Mama" and "pa" dont have applicative forms, and "cua" has a very strange "cualilia", "to eat s.o. elses food". John _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Thu May 6 20:36:05 2010 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Thu, 6 May 2010 16:36:05 -0400 Subject: applicative a>i In-Reply-To: <83CC90B3-5EEB-4C7A-A43B-36DE6F5B4DAF@me.com> Message-ID: Quoting "John Sullivan, Ph.D." : > Hi Michael, > You picked strange verbs for the objections. > "Piya" is a special case because it is probably made of the older > verb "pi", "to pull at s.t." and the durative "ya", so it?s actually > a compound root. > In modern Huasteca Nahuatl there is only one class 4 verb that has a > regular applicative form: "nahua", "to carry s.o. or s.t. in one?s > arms" goes to "nahuilia", "to carry s.o. else?s baby in one?s arms". > "mama" and "pa" don?t have applicative forms, and "cua" has a very > strange "cualilia", "to eat s.o. else?s food". > John cualilia looks like a reduplication of the applicative suffix -li(a). Best, Michael > > On May 6, 2010, at 2:37 PM, Michael McCafferty wrote: > >> Hi, John, >> >> The thing is, you don't get, for example, *piyilia:, piyalia. And long >> /a:/ certainly doesn't change: ma:ma:lia:, not *ma:mi:lia: >> >> But, sure, cho:ca, zaca, chi:hua, mo:tla, quetza... >> >> I've always thought the changes you talk about were examples of /a/ >> assimilating to the /i/ of /-lia:/. >> >> I hope that Joe is around and can chime in. >> >> Thanks for the thoughts, >> >> Michael >> >> >> >> >> >> Quoting "John Sullivan, Ph.D." : >> >>> Listeros, >>> I was taught that when transitive verbs ending in -a take the >>> applicative suffix -lia, that final -a of the verb root changes to >>> -i. The more I look at it, the more it seems that what is actually >>> happening is that the transitive form reverts to the intransitive >>> form, ending in -i (which in many cases is not used by itself) before >>> adding the applicative suffix. The following examples are from modern >>> Huastecan Nahuatl. >>> 1. cahui ("to become loose", only attested in mahcauhtoc, "it/they >>> are loose) > cahua, "to leave s.t." > cahuilia, "to leave s.t. for >>> s.o.) >>> 2. tzacui ("to become closed", only attested in tzauctoc, "it is >>> closed") > tzacua, to close/enclose s.t." > tzacuilia, "to get in >>> s.o.?s way" or "to prop s.t. up") >>> 3. temi, "for s.t. to fill or swell" > tema, "to empty things out >>> (into a container)" > temilia, "to fill s.t. up" >>> John >>> >>> John Sullivan, Ph.D. >>> Professor of Nahua language and culture >>> Universidad Autónoma de Zacatecas >>> Zacatecas Institute of Teaching and Research in Ethnology >>> Tacuba 152, int. 43 >>> Centro Histórico >>> Zacatecas, Zac. 98000 >>> Mexico >>> Work: +52 (492) 925-3415 >>> Fax: +1 (858) 724-3030 (U.S.A.) >>> Home: +52 (492) 768-6048 >>> Mobile: +52 1 (492) 103-0195 >>> idiez at me.com >>> www.macehualli.org >>> >>> >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From lahunik.62 at skynet.be Thu May 6 22:00:27 2010 From: lahunik.62 at skynet.be (lahunik.62 at skynet.be) Date: Fri, 7 May 2010 00:00:27 +0200 Subject: Modern terms Message-ID: Modern terms? * Acopechtli or ahcopechtli: Ahco=locatif, above. Pechtli=sleeping mat (petate). Tlapechtli=bed. Acopechtli=above the bed? * Teconalli: Coal. Esp.carbon (Mol.) Tecolli, piece of coal. * Amamachiotl or amamachiyotl: Paper pattern. Comp.morphol. on amatl and machiyotl. Amatl=paper, book. Machiyotl=pattern, exemple. Amatlazontli=cahier. Amoxtli=book. * Tetlaixpolhuiani Possible form of the verb tetlaixpolhuia. He would destroy something which belong to someone. Esp.borrar estropear una cosa a alquien. Composition on polhuia and ixpoloa. Ixpoloa=to destroy. Polhuia=to lose something for someone. Esp.perder cosa agena. * Amaizhuatl. Composition on amatl and izhuatl. Amatl=paper. Izhuatl=leaf, husk of the maize. Amaizhuatl=paperleaf? * Tequitl=a work, a task, an exercise. Lahun Ik 62 Baert Georges Flanders Fields -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From tezozomoc at hotmail.com Fri May 7 19:45:17 2010 From: tezozomoc at hotmail.com (Mr. Tezozomoc) Date: Fri, 7 May 2010 12:45:17 -0700 Subject: Oldest pressurized water system in New World is found in Mexico Message-ID: http://www.therepublic.com/view/story/SCI-MAYA-WATER_2316589/SCI-MAYA-WATER_2316589/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From lahunik.62 at skynet.be Sun May 9 23:48:13 2010 From: lahunik.62 at skynet.be (lahunik.62 at skynet.be) Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 01:48:13 +0200 Subject: Ancient indigenous Mesoamerican and Andean music Message-ID: Dear listeros, I'm searching for ancient indigenous Mesoamerican and Andean music. I know of Jaramar Sosa who has spent her musical career performing in ancient indigenous languages such as Zapotec and Quecha. But I don't know if there allready exist something of her on cd. She was planning a full album with songs in the Purapecha language. Binni Gulaza, a vocal and guitar trio, which played "sones istmenos", the traditional music of the Zapotec Indians which live in Oaxaca. Zapotec guitarists and composers are seemingly well known throughout Mexico. Some of the country's most popular love songs are from the sones istmenos tradition. In the last hundred years brassbands have been largerly replacing string bands, with the result that many lyrics, noted for their masterful command of the Zapotec language, have been lost. I'm also searching for the roots of contemporary Andean music, which go back before and during the Incan Empire. Music with the zamponas, the pan pipe, and the charango, the double stringed mandolin, made of the shell of an armadillo. The shrill mournful sound of the pipes seems to touch something deep in the human soul, and is a perfect complement to the rich tones of the charango. Stringed instruments seemed unknown before the Spanish Conquest. But accounts from the time of the Conquest praised the hypnotic and smoothing effects of the music. I'm aware of Jorge Milchberg y Los Incas, who achieved fame with his album El Condor Pasa. I'm in the possession of the song "Tema de Maimara" from the album Alegria, that seems to succeed in evoking the beauty of the Andes themselves. Ollantay of Expression, which is based on Incan ceremonial forms called Yaravi and Huayno, and tells the story of General Ollantay. This track should be from the band's second album Wasichakuy, which is a Quecha Indian word that means "to build your own house", as well as the circle of light that surrounds the Sun and the Moon. Wasichakuy is seemingly a strong united energy by which one could overcome any obstacle, and in the Incan soul it encouraged faith and radiated an aura of positive energy. Lahun Ik 62 Baert Georges Flanders Fields -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From idiez at me.com Wed May 12 12:22:49 2010 From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan, Ph.D.) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 07:22:49 -0500 Subject: Foundation grammar Message-ID: Piyali listeros, Who is handling distribution of the Campbell/Karttunen Foundation grammar now? John John Sullivan, Ph.D. Professor of Nahua language and culture Universidad Autónoma de Zacatecas Zacatecas Institute of Teaching and Research in Ethnology Tacuba 152, int. 43 Centro Histórico Zacatecas, Zac. 98000 Mexico Work: +52 (492) 925-3415 Fax: +1 (858) 724-3030 (U.S.A.) Home: +52 (492) 768-6048 Mobile: +52 1 (492) 103-0195 idiez at me.com www.macehualli.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From b.leeming at rivers.org Wed May 12 14:07:05 2010 From: b.leeming at rivers.org (Leeming, Ben) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 10:07:05 -0400 Subject: mohottah Message-ID: Piyali listeros, Can anyone explain to me the process by which mo+(i)ttah (they look at each other, see themselves) becomes mohottah? On p. 90 of Andrews' Workbook (1975 ed.), Ex. 38A, no. 3 he writes: Nepanotl mohottah, and then on p. 195 gives the translation "They are staring at one another mutually; i.e., They are staring at one another." On p. 445 of the text, in the Vocabulary under (iTTA) he has "MO-(iTTA) = to look at oneself, to see oneself." This is close to but not identical with mohottah. I have this sinking feeling that it's something really obvious, but for whatever reason I can't account for that first h!! Thank you! Ben Ben Leeming Chair, History Department The Rivers School Weston, MA 02493 (781) 235-9300 ________________________________ Sample disclaimer text -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From schwallr at potsdam.edu Wed May 12 14:31:58 2010 From: schwallr at potsdam.edu (John F. Schwaller) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 10:31:58 -0400 Subject: Foundation grammar In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I am. You can find the info here: http://www.nahuatl.org/hotlinks On 5/12/2010 8:22 AM, John Sullivan, Ph.D. wrote: > Piyali listeros, > Who is handling distribution of the Campbell/Karttunen Foundation > grammar now? > John > > John Sullivan, Ph.D. > > Professor of Nahua language and culture > > Universidad Autónoma de Zacatecas > > Zacatecas Institute of Teaching and Research in Ethnology > > Tacuba 152, int. 43 > > Centro Histórico > > Zacatecas, Zac. 98000 > > Mexico > > Work: +52 (492) 925-3415 > > Fax: +1 (858) 724-3030 (U.S.A.) > > Home: +52 (492) 768-6048 > > Mobile: +52 1 (492) 103-0195 > > idiez at me.com > > www.macehualli.org > > > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > -- ***************************** John F. Schwaller President SUNY - Potsdam 44 Pierrepont Ave. Potsdam, NY 13676 Tel. 315-267-2100 FAX 315-267-2496 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From schwallr at potsdam.edu Wed May 12 14:52:22 2010 From: schwallr at potsdam.edu (John F. Schwaller) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 10:52:22 -0400 Subject: Foundation grammar - CORRECTION In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Here is the correct link for info on the Grammar: http://www2.potsdam.edu/schwaljf/Nahuatl/hotlinks.htm On 5/12/2010 8:22 AM, John Sullivan, Ph.D. wrote: > Piyali listeros, > Who is handling distribution of the Campbell/Karttunen Foundation > grammar now? > John > > John Sullivan, Ph.D. > > Professor of Nahua language and culture > > Universidad Autónoma de Zacatecas > > Zacatecas Institute of Teaching and Research in Ethnology > > Tacuba 152, int. 43 > > Centro Histórico > > Zacatecas, Zac. 98000 > > Mexico > > Work: +52 (492) 925-3415 > > Fax: +1 (858) 724-3030 (U.S.A.) > > Home: +52 (492) 768-6048 > > Mobile: +52 1 (492) 103-0195 > > idiez at me.com > > www.macehualli.org > > > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > -- ***************************** John F. Schwaller President SUNY - Potsdam 44 Pierrepont Ave. Potsdam, NY 13676 Tel. 315-267-2100 FAX 315-267-2496 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From idiez at me.com Wed May 12 16:33:11 2010 From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan, Ph.D.) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 11:33:11 -0500 Subject: mohottah In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Piyali Ben, You know that when mo- and itta come together, the o wins out over the i because although both are short, the o is stronger than the i. So we get motta, which you will see all the time in texts. Now, when it comes time to reduplicate, you reduplicate the new word, motta, which is now understood to be m-otta, and you get m-ohotta. This kind of re-analyzed reduplication happens in the Huasteca too. So: 1. ahci, nic. to touch s.o. or s.t. 2. aahci, nic. to touch s.t. after all 3. Carlos quiaahci. Carlos touches it after all 4. Nicacahci. I touch it after all. John On May 12, 2010, at 9:07 AM, Leeming, Ben wrote: > Piyali listeros, > > Can anyone explain to me the process by which mo+(i)ttah (they look at each other, see themselves) becomes mohottah? > > On p. 90 of Andrews’ Workbook (1975 ed.), Ex. 38A, no. 3 he writes: Nepanotl mohottah, and then on p. 195 gives the translation “They are staring at one another mutually; i.e., They are staring at one another.” On p. 445 of the text, in the Vocabulary under (iTTA) he has “MO-(iTTA) = to look at oneself, to see oneself.” This is close to but not identical with mohottah. > > I have this sinking feeling that it’s something really obvious, but for whatever reason I can’t account for that first h!! > > Thank you! > > Ben > > Ben Leeming > Chair, History Department > The Rivers School > Weston, MA 02493 > (781) 235-9300 > > Sample disclaimer text > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Wed May 12 17:05:32 2010 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 13:05:32 -0400 Subject: mohottah In-Reply-To: <9925AF60-B98F-40DA-97F5-08FE05CB43C6@me.com> Message-ID: Ben, As you known, in Nahuatl, the reduplicated, or frequentive, verb prefixes generally take these forms: 1) consonant + short vowel titlacuacua: 2) consonant + long vowel ancho:cho:ca 3) consonant + vowel + glottal stop pahpa:qui Number three is what is going on here, but, as John explains, the /o/ of motta is the only element that undergoes reduplication, from /o/ to /o/ + glottal stop, here represented by orthographic "h". Michael Quoting "John Sullivan, Ph.D." : > Piyali Ben, > You know that when mo- and itta come together, the o wins out over > the i because although both are short, the o is stronger than the i. > So we get motta, which you will see all the time in texts. Now, when > it comes time to reduplicate, you reduplicate the new word, motta, > which is now understood to be m-otta, and you get m-ohotta. > This kind of re-analyzed reduplication happens in the Huasteca too. So: > 1. ahci, nic. to touch s.o. or s.t. > 2. aahci, nic. to touch s.t. after all > 3. Carlos quiaahci. Carlos touches it after all > 4. Nicacahci. I touch it after all. > John > > On May 12, 2010, at 9:07 AM, Leeming, Ben wrote: > >> Piyali listeros, >> >> Can anyone explain to me the process by which mo+(i)ttah (they look >> at each other, see themselves) becomes mohottah? >> >> On p. 90 of Andrews? Workbook (1975 ed.), Ex. 38A, no. 3 he writes: >> Nepanotl mohottah, and then on p. 195 gives the translation ?They >> are staring at one another mutually; i.e., They are staring at one >> another.? On p. 445 of the text, in the Vocabulary under (iTTA) he >> has ?MO-(iTTA) = to look at oneself, to see oneself.? This is close >> to but not identical with mohottah. >> >> I have this sinking feeling that it?s something really obvious, but >> for whatever reason I can?t account for that first h!! >> >> Thank you! >> >> Ben >> >> Ben Leeming >> Chair, History Department >> The Rivers School >> Weston, MA 02493 >> (781) 235-9300 >> >> Sample disclaimer text >> _______________________________________________ >> Nahuatl mailing list >> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org >> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Wed May 12 17:06:46 2010 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 13:06:46 -0400 Subject: mohottah In-Reply-To: <9925AF60-B98F-40DA-97F5-08FE05CB43C6@me.com> Message-ID: Quoting "John Sullivan, Ph.D." : > Piyali Ben, > You know that when mo- and itta come together, the o wins out over > the i because although both are short, the o is stronger than the i. > So we get motta, which you will see all the time in texts. Now, when > it comes time to reduplicate, you reduplicate the new word, motta, > which is now understood to be m-otta, and you get m-ohotta. > This kind of re-analyzed reduplication happens in the Huasteca too. So: > 1. ahci, nic. to touch s.o. or s.t. > 2. aahci, nic. to touch s.t. after all > 3. Carlos quiaahci. Carlos touches it after all > 4. Nicacahci. I touch it after all. > John John: I'm wondering about number 4. I don't get the second -c-. Michael > > On May 12, 2010, at 9:07 AM, Leeming, Ben wrote: > >> Piyali listeros, >> >> Can anyone explain to me the process by which mo+(i)ttah (they look >> at each other, see themselves) becomes mohottah? >> >> On p. 90 of Andrews? Workbook (1975 ed.), Ex. 38A, no. 3 he writes: >> Nepanotl mohottah, and then on p. 195 gives the translation ?They >> are staring at one another mutually; i.e., They are staring at one >> another.? On p. 445 of the text, in the Vocabulary under (iTTA) he >> has ?MO-(iTTA) = to look at oneself, to see oneself.? This is close >> to but not identical with mohottah. >> >> I have this sinking feeling that it?s something really obvious, but >> for whatever reason I can?t account for that first h!! >> >> Thank you! >> >> Ben >> >> Ben Leeming >> Chair, History Department >> The Rivers School >> Weston, MA 02493 >> (781) 235-9300 >> >> Sample disclaimer text >> _______________________________________________ >> Nahuatl mailing list >> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org >> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From idiez at me.com Wed May 12 19:29:38 2010 From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan, Ph.D.) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 14:29:38 -0500 Subject: mohottah In-Reply-To: <20100512130646.8lbnyuz5kwcsk48s@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: Michael, If I want to reduplicate the stem of quiahci, the first syllable that contains elements of the stem is ah, so the a is reduplicated. If I want to reduplicate the stem of nicahci, the first syllable containing elements of the stem is cah, right? So in this case the ca is reduplicated. This only happens with transitive verbs whose stem begins in a vowel, and when the subject is ni or ti (hence, the initial sequence nic or tic). Cool, huh? John On May 12, 2010, at 12:06 PM, Michael McCafferty wrote: > Quoting "John Sullivan, Ph.D." : > >> Piyali Ben, >> You know that when mo- and itta come together, the o wins out over >> the i because although both are short, the o is stronger than the i. >> So we get motta, which you will see all the time in texts. Now, when >> it comes time to reduplicate, you reduplicate the new word, motta, >> which is now understood to be m-otta, and you get m-ohotta. >> This kind of re-analyzed reduplication happens in the Huasteca too. So: >> 1. ahci, nic. to touch s.o. or s.t. >> 2. aahci, nic. to touch s.t. after all >> 3. Carlos quiaahci. Carlos touches it after all >> 4. Nicacahci. I touch it after all. >> John > > > John: > > I'm wondering about number 4. I don't get the second -c-. > > Michael > > >> >> On May 12, 2010, at 9:07 AM, Leeming, Ben wrote: >> >>> Piyali listeros, >>> >>> Can anyone explain to me the process by which mo+(i)ttah (they look >>> at each other, see themselves) becomes mohottah? >>> >>> On p. 90 of Andrews? Workbook (1975 ed.), Ex. 38A, no. 3 he writes: >>> Nepanotl mohottah, and then on p. 195 gives the translation ?They >>> are staring at one another mutually; i.e., They are staring at one >>> another.? On p. 445 of the text, in the Vocabulary under (iTTA) he >>> has ?MO-(iTTA) = to look at oneself, to see oneself.? This is close >>> to but not identical with mohottah. >>> >>> I have this sinking feeling that it?s something really obvious, but >>> for whatever reason I can?t account for that first h!! >>> >>> Thank you! >>> >>> Ben >>> >>> Ben Leeming >>> Chair, History Department >>> The Rivers School >>> Weston, MA 02493 >>> (781) 235-9300 >>> >>> Sample disclaimer text >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Nahuatl mailing list >>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org >>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl >> >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Wed May 12 22:59:52 2010 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 18:59:52 -0400 Subject: mohottah In-Reply-To: <982E8B1E-FFB6-4F8B-A9D1-7B674E370E56@me.com> Message-ID: Hi, John, You know, my first (gut?) feeling about this was that that -c- was epenthetic, not resulting from reduplication. Yes, this is cool, and...strange. */ni-k-aa?si/ -> /ni-ka-k-a?si/ Michael Quoting "John Sullivan, Ph.D." : > Michael, > If I want to reduplicate the stem of quiahci, the first syllable > that contains elements of the stem is ah, so the a is reduplicated. > If I want to reduplicate the stem of nicahci, the first syllable > containing elements of the stem is cah, right? So in this case the ca > is reduplicated. This only happens with transitive verbs whose stem > begins in a vowel, and when the subject is ni or ti (hence, the > initial sequence nic or tic). Cool, huh? > John > > On May 12, 2010, at 12:06 PM, Michael McCafferty wrote: > >> Quoting "John Sullivan, Ph.D." : >> >>> Piyali Ben, >>> You know that when mo- and itta come together, the o wins out over >>> the i because although both are short, the o is stronger than the i. >>> So we get motta, which you will see all the time in texts. Now, when >>> it comes time to reduplicate, you reduplicate the new word, motta, >>> which is now understood to be m-otta, and you get m-ohotta. >>> This kind of re-analyzed reduplication happens in the Huasteca too. So: >>> 1. ahci, nic. to touch s.o. or s.t. >>> 2. aahci, nic. to touch s.t. after all >>> 3. Carlos quiaahci. Carlos touches it after all >>> 4. Nicacahci. I touch it after all. >>> John >> >> >> John: >> >> I'm wondering about number 4. I don't get the second -c-. >> >> Michael >> >> >>> >>> On May 12, 2010, at 9:07 AM, Leeming, Ben wrote: >>> >>>> Piyali listeros, >>>> >>>> Can anyone explain to me the process by which mo+(i)ttah (they look >>>> at each other, see themselves) becomes mohottah? >>>> >>>> On p. 90 of Andrews? Workbook (1975 ed.), Ex. 38A, no. 3 he writes: >>>> Nepanotl mohottah, and then on p. 195 gives the translation ?They >>>> are staring at one another mutually; i.e., They are staring at one >>>> another.? On p. 445 of the text, in the Vocabulary under (iTTA) he >>>> has ?MO-(iTTA) = to look at oneself, to see oneself.? This is close >>>> to but not identical with mohottah. >>>> >>>> I have this sinking feeling that it?s something really obvious, but >>>> for whatever reason I can?t account for that first h!! >>>> >>>> Thank you! >>>> >>>> Ben >>>> >>>> Ben Leeming >>>> Chair, History Department >>>> The Rivers School >>>> Weston, MA 02493 >>>> (781) 235-9300 >>>> >>>> Sample disclaimer text >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Nahuatl mailing list >>>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org >>>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl >>> >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Nahuatl mailing list >> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org >> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From idiez at me.com Wed May 12 23:59:38 2010 From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan, Ph.D.) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 18:59:38 -0500 Subject: mohottah In-Reply-To: <42D7CD5D-D331-4F39-8298-A7C27B76810C@nantucket.net> Message-ID: Fran and all, I should have explained that this is a case of long vowel reduplication. John On May 12, 2010, at 6:28 PM, Frances Karttunen wrote: > It's not the way I would expect it to work either. In my experience, the reduplicated form of ahci is ahahci, without the object prefix c- getting involved in the reduplicative process. > > Must be a regional thing. > > Fran > > > On May 12, 2010, at 6:59 PM, Michael McCafferty wrote: > >> Hi, John, >> >> You know, my first (gut?) feeling about this was that that -c- was >> epenthetic, not resulting from reduplication. >> >> Yes, this is cool, and...strange. >> >> */ni-k-aa?si/ -> /ni-ka-k-a?si/ >> >> Michael >> >> Quoting "John Sullivan, Ph.D." : >> >>> Michael, >>> If I want to reduplicate the stem of quiahci, the first syllable >>> that contains elements of the stem is ah, so the a is reduplicated. >>> If I want to reduplicate the stem of nicahci, the first syllable >>> containing elements of the stem is cah, right? So in this case the ca >>> is reduplicated. This only happens with transitive verbs whose stem >>> begins in a vowel, and when the subject is ni or ti (hence, the >>> initial sequence nic or tic). Cool, huh? >>> John >>> >>> On May 12, 2010, at 12:06 PM, Michael McCafferty wrote: >>> >>>> Quoting "John Sullivan, Ph.D." : >>>> >>>>> Piyali Ben, >>>>> You know that when mo- and itta come together, the o wins out over >>>>> the i because although both are short, the o is stronger than the i. >>>>> So we get motta, which you will see all the time in texts. Now, when >>>>> it comes time to reduplicate, you reduplicate the new word, motta, >>>>> which is now understood to be m-otta, and you get m-ohotta. >>>>> This kind of re-analyzed reduplication happens in the Huasteca too. So: >>>>> 1. ahci, nic. to touch s.o. or s.t. >>>>> 2. aahci, nic. to touch s.t. after all >>>>> 3. Carlos quiaahci. Carlos touches it after all >>>>> 4. Nicacahci. I touch it after all. >>>>> John >>>> >>>> >>>> John: >>>> >>>> I'm wondering about number 4. I don't get the second -c-. >>>> >>>> Michael >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> On May 12, 2010, at 9:07 AM, Leeming, Ben wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Piyali listeros, >>>>>> >>>>>> Can anyone explain to me the process by which mo+(i)ttah (they look >>>>>> at each other, see themselves) becomes mohottah? >>>>>> >>>>>> On p. 90 of Andrews? Workbook (1975 ed.), Ex. 38A, no. 3 he writes: >>>>>> Nepanotl mohottah, and then on p. 195 gives the translation ?They >>>>>> are staring at one another mutually; i.e., They are staring at one >>>>>> another.? On p. 445 of the text, in the Vocabulary under (iTTA) he >>>>>> has ?MO-(iTTA) = to look at oneself, to see oneself.? This is close >>>>>> to but not identical with mohottah. >>>>>> >>>>>> I have this sinking feeling that it?s something really obvious, but >>>>>> for whatever reason I can?t account for that first h!! >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank you! >>>>>> >>>>>> Ben >>>>>> >>>>>> Ben Leeming >>>>>> Chair, History Department >>>>>> The Rivers School >>>>>> Weston, MA 02493 >>>>>> (781) 235-9300 >>>>>> >>>>>> Sample disclaimer text >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Nahuatl mailing list >>>>>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org >>>>>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Nahuatl mailing list >>>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org >>>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl >>> >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Nahuatl mailing list >> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org >> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Thu May 13 00:36:23 2010 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 20:36:23 -0400 Subject: mohottah In-Reply-To: <37D5A062-AD94-4F09-BB2C-CB3633CA7C9F@me.com> Message-ID: John, Epenthesis is the addition of a consonant or a vowel to a word, usually inside the word. It's a common linguistic phenomenon in languages around the world. In Miami-Illinois, an Algonquian language, we see it in addition /a/ in the pronunciation of the French name François: Fr. /frãswa/ -> M-I /palanswa/. The French consonant cluster /fr/ was difficult for Miami-Illinois speakers. In English you see consonant epenthesis for example in the pronunciation /warmpth/ for /warmth/ ("warmth"). I do that thoughtlessly. Seems as if epenthesis aids in vocalizing. I can't say what the occurrence of epenthesis is in Nahuatl, but it we might look for Nahuatl vowel epenthesis (called--grimace--"anaptyxis") in Spanish loan words with consonant clusters Nahuatl resists. Michael Quoting "John Sullivan, Ph.D." : > Michael, > Ok, I don?t know what epenthetic means. Can you explain the term? > And does this phenomenon occur in other situations in Nahuatl? > John > On May 12, 2010, at 5:59 PM, Michael McCafferty wrote: > >> Hi, John, >> >> You know, my first (gut?) feeling about this was that that -c- was >> epenthetic, not resulting from reduplication. >> >> Yes, this is cool, and...strange. >> >> */ni-k-aa?si/ -> /ni-ka-k-a?si/ >> >> Michael >> >> Quoting "John Sullivan, Ph.D." : >> >>> Michael, >>> If I want to reduplicate the stem of quiahci, the first syllable >>> that contains elements of the stem is ah, so the a is reduplicated. >>> If I want to reduplicate the stem of nicahci, the first syllable >>> containing elements of the stem is cah, right? So in this case the ca >>> is reduplicated. This only happens with transitive verbs whose stem >>> begins in a vowel, and when the subject is ni or ti (hence, the >>> initial sequence nic or tic). Cool, huh? >>> John >>> >>> On May 12, 2010, at 12:06 PM, Michael McCafferty wrote: >>> >>>> Quoting "John Sullivan, Ph.D." : >>>> >>>>> Piyali Ben, >>>>> You know that when mo- and itta come together, the o wins out over >>>>> the i because although both are short, the o is stronger than the i. >>>>> So we get motta, which you will see all the time in texts. Now, when >>>>> it comes time to reduplicate, you reduplicate the new word, motta, >>>>> which is now understood to be m-otta, and you get m-ohotta. >>>>> This kind of re-analyzed reduplication happens in the Huasteca too. So: >>>>> 1. ahci, nic. to touch s.o. or s.t. >>>>> 2. aahci, nic. to touch s.t. after all >>>>> 3. Carlos quiaahci. Carlos touches it after all >>>>> 4. Nicacahci. I touch it after all. >>>>> John >>>> >>>> >>>> John: >>>> >>>> I'm wondering about number 4. I don't get the second -c-. >>>> >>>> Michael >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> On May 12, 2010, at 9:07 AM, Leeming, Ben wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Piyali listeros, >>>>>> >>>>>> Can anyone explain to me the process by which mo+(i)ttah (they look >>>>>> at each other, see themselves) becomes mohottah? >>>>>> >>>>>> On p. 90 of Andrews? Workbook (1975 ed.), Ex. 38A, no. 3 he writes: >>>>>> Nepanotl mohottah, and then on p. 195 gives the translation ?They >>>>>> are staring at one another mutually; i.e., They are staring at one >>>>>> another.? On p. 445 of the text, in the Vocabulary under (iTTA) he >>>>>> has ?MO-(iTTA) = to look at oneself, to see oneself.? This is close >>>>>> to but not identical with mohottah. >>>>>> >>>>>> I have this sinking feeling that it?s something really obvious, but >>>>>> for whatever reason I can?t account for that first h!! >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank you! >>>>>> >>>>>> Ben >>>>>> >>>>>> Ben Leeming >>>>>> Chair, History Department >>>>>> The Rivers School >>>>>> Weston, MA 02493 >>>>>> (781) 235-9300 >>>>>> >>>>>> Sample disclaimer text >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Nahuatl mailing list >>>>>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org >>>>>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Nahuatl mailing list >>>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org >>>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl >>> >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Nahuatl mailing list >> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org >> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From campbel at indiana.edu Thu May 13 03:33:57 2010 From: campbel at indiana.edu (Campbell, R. Joe) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 23:33:57 -0400 Subject: mohottah Message-ID: Ben, I agree with Michael's and John's first comments, so mine are just additive. At the beginning, I (like probably more than a few others) focused my attention on the fact that the reduplication was operating on the 'o' of the prefix rather than expected initial vowel of the stem. But weren't you concerned with the 'h' itself? My first lesson on this was forty years ago and it remains my iconic image of an explanation for some facts about reduplication. One of my early native speaker teachers was telling me that 'I hop' was "nitzicuini" (here I'm taking the liberty of converting the modern regional form to one that corresponds to the older more generally known form). She commented that you could also say "nitzitzicuini" or "nitzihtzicuini". I probably wrinkled my brow (unnecessary nowadays) and asked what the difference was. She stood up and hopped several times in place and said, 'that's "nitzitzicuini"' (I take the further liberty of translating into English.) And then she hopped around from one place to another and grinned, 'that's "nitzihtzicuini"'. So when I think about the 'h' occurring with reduplication meaning "distributive" in either time or space (or even people), I can still see her hopping up and down or doing an imitation of jumping over one mud puddle and then another. So the 'h' involves separate events and the lack of it involves a prolonged event (I know that I'm over-generalizing, but I also know that everyone has a ready copy of Andrews.) Back to the reduplication of the 'o'... As I was driving this morning, I asked my primary consultant for a better way to say what I thought was going on than what I then explained. We failed to formalize it better, so here it is. People who concern themselves with theory would very likely find an interesting topic here, but you don't have to be concerned with theory to blink and say, "I haven't found anything like that in Nahuatl before!". Reduplication applies to the first vowel *of the stem* (and any preceding consonants), but in the case of , where the /i/ is elided by the preceding /o/, there is no first vowel remaining in the stem to undergo reduplication. So the /o/ (culprit of the elision) takes over for its victim (i.e., /i/) and reduplicates. Iztayohmeh, Joe Quoting "Leeming, Ben" : > Piyali listeros, > > Can anyone explain to me the process by which mo+(i)ttah (they look > at each other, see themselves) becomes mohottah? > > On p. 90 of Andrews' Workbook (1975 ed.), Ex. 38A, no. 3 he writes: > Nepanotl mohottah, and then on p. 195 gives the translation "They are > staring at one another mutually; i.e., They are staring at one > another." On p. 445 of the text, in the Vocabulary under (iTTA) he > has "MO-(iTTA) = to look at oneself, to see oneself." This is close > to but not identical with mohottah. > > I have this sinking feeling that it's something really obvious, but > for whatever reason I can't account for that first h!! > > Thank you! > > Ben > > Ben Leeming > Chair, History Department > The Rivers School > Weston, MA 02493 > (781) 235-9300 > > ________________________________ > Sample disclaimer text > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx Thu May 13 16:07:20 2010 From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 11:07:20 -0500 Subject: mohottah Message-ID: Listeros: I love Joe’s hopping example. It reminds me of thirty years ago when my Otomi-speaking father-in-law was teaching me how to pronounce the closed central vowel (written today with an underlined u) over a meal of gorditas, frijoles and salsa. He held out his spoon with beans in it and emphasized the pronunciation of the word for bean, ju (underlined u, with an ascending tonal glide), sticking his head out and exaggerating the position of his mouth. That mental snapshot will be forever linked to the vowel in my mind. As for reduplication with and without the saltillo, Joe’s teacher’s demonstration reassured me that I’m “getting” Carochi’s example in the explanation I recently wrote for a second edition of a textbook. After briefly explaining the four basic types of reduplication (CVh, CV:, CV with -ca, CV with -tza), and giving some examples of the first two types, I explain the semantic distinction between them (each word is written twice, in italics for traditional spelling and between vertical lines for the Andrews/Karttunen traditional/phonemic orthography; macrons have been converted to colons and accents have been eliminated to facilitate transmission by e-mail): *********************************************************** Un verbo iterativo hecho con la reduplicacion del primer tipo suele tener un significado distinto a la forma hecha con la reduplicacion del segundo tipo [aquí se citan a Carochi y a Lockhart, incluyendo una transcripcion de la confesión de Carochi de que no entiende las sutilezas del asunto]. En las siguientes palabras-oracion, formadas a partir del verbo transitivo zaca |zaca|, “acarrear”, se puede observar esta distincion semantica. Primero se presenta el verbo sin reduplicacion, luego con el primer tipo de reduplicacion (CV mas saltillo) y finalmente con el segundo tipo (CV con vocal larga). Observese como la distincion entre ambos tipos es invisible en la ortografia tradicional, lo cual dificulta la traduccion de los textos novohispanos que no representan el saltillo ni las vocales largas: - nitlazaca |nitlazaca| (|ni| + |tla| + |zaca|), “yo acarreo algo (una vez y desde un lugar)”; - nitlazazaca |nitlazahzaca| (|ni| + |tla| + |zah| + |zaca|), “yo acarreo algo apresuradamente (repetidas veces y desde distintos lugares)”; - nitlazazaca |nitlaza:zaca| (|ni| + |tla| + |za:| + |zaca|), “yo acarreo algo apresuradamente (repetidas veces y desde un lugar)” (Carochi, 2001: 270, 271 [libro 3, capitulo 16, seccion 2]). En las dos formas podemos observar que la reduplicacion proporciona al verbo un sentido intensificado (expresado por medio de la palabra “apresuradamente”), en adicion a la idea de la repeticion de la accion. *********************************************************** Suggestions are welcome; this is a work in progress. Saludos desde Guanajuato, David -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From campbel at indiana.edu Thu May 13 23:35:36 2010 From: campbel at indiana.edu (Campbell, R. Joe) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 19:35:36 -0400 Subject: mohottah Message-ID: Nocnihuan, I thought that I should probably clarify my use of the word "teachers" in my learning Nahuatl. I have to confess that I have never had a formal class in the language. By "teachers" in this context, I refer to the various native speakers who have helped me make progress. In 1962, I went to Tepoztlan, Morelos, as a member of a group of graduate students under the guidance of Ken Hale, then a young professor at the University of Illinois. He placed a group of four in the small nearby village of San Andres and helped Paul Puritt and me to find living space in Tepoztlan. Ken introduced me to a Nahuatl speaker, who was a veteran of the Revolution, in fact, who had fought with Zapata. I sat down with him and started asking for single word translations and repeating them as I made notes... That didn't work, since he had little patience for someone who mangled his words, failing miserably on the syllable-final [h], a frequent modern result of the historical glottal stop. Don Juanito and I remained good friends, made trips together, had long chats with beer on my porch, but Paul and I found someone else to help us through the hour-by-hour work all summer -- a sixteen year old girl (and sometimes her father) from nearby Santa Catarina. When Indiana University wanted someone to teach Nahuatl in 1970, I accepted the assignment with the understanding that they would pay a native speaker to co-teach the class in a field methods format. The young woman who spent an academic year in Bloomington was extremely communicative (and very instrumental in my learning more Nahuatl) as we spent many hours each week planning out "safe" areas of the language to present in class. It was she who clarified for me the function of reduplication in Nahuatl verbs through her hopping. Through the 1980s, I spent time in Cuernavaca and Taxco, looking for people who spoke the Guerrero Balsas Valley Nahuatl. One person who spent a lot of time with me was an elderly vendor from Ameyaltepec. And in Taxco, a family from San Agustin Oapan seemed to adopt me, with the young son abandoning his family work of painting amates and tending their vending stall to spend mountains of time with me and my tape recorder, acting as my "point man" in trips to outlying towns, and even getting me to wade barefoot in the Balsas River, helping him with the fishing nets. In 1989 and 1992 I worked with a native speaker from Canoa, Puebla, the late Alberto Zepeda, in co-teaching a course on his dialect during Fran's NEH Institutes. On Friday before the classes were to start on Monday, I told him that I didn't know anything about Canoa Nahuatl, but that by Monday we had to be ready to teach a class together as if I did. And we repeated our co-teaching act at the University of Chicago summer school in 1996. I can't imagine a more intense language learning experience than those three summers. In the Spring semester of 1998, a speaker of the Tlaxcallan dialect came to Bloomington and stayed well into the Summer. We visited each other's classes and became good friends, resulting in our sweating through the heat of a sun-heated limestone building with no air-conditioning for weeks and weeks to translate Gonzalez Casanova's _Cuentos Indigenas_ into Tlaxcallan Nahuatl. These people have been my most important teachers of Nahuatl. Not all of them had a teaching certificate, but that didn't diminish the effect of their teaching on me. David's example of vowel-learning in the midst of sharing food reminds me that many of you have undoubtedly had similar experiences. I would be amiss if I didn't mention two members of the Franciscan Order: Fray Alonso de Molina and Fray Bernardino de Sahagun. They have both been generous beyond the Call in the innumerable hours that they have spent with me. Joe _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Fri May 14 00:25:00 2010 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 20:25:00 -0400 Subject: mohottah In-Reply-To: <20100513193536.0aoagevw0s4gc88o@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: Joe, You forgot to mention the fact that from 1970 until after 2000 at Indiana University so many scholars now working with the language cut their Nahuatl teeth on your table. Michael Quoting "Campbell, R. Joe" : > Nocnihuan, > > I thought that I should probably clarify my use of the word > "teachers" in my learning Nahuatl. I have to confess that I have never > had a formal class in the language. By "teachers" in this context, I > refer to the various native speakers who have helped me make progress. > In 1962, I went to Tepoztlan, Morelos, as a member of a group of > graduate students under the guidance of Ken Hale, then a young > professor at the University of Illinois. He placed a group of four in > the small nearby village of San Andres and helped Paul Puritt and me to > find living space in Tepoztlan. Ken introduced me to a Nahuatl > speaker, who was a veteran of the Revolution, in fact, who had fought > with Zapata. I sat down with him and started asking for single word > translations and repeating them as I made notes... That didn't work, > since he had little patience for someone who mangled his words, failing > miserably on the syllable-final [h], a frequent modern result of the > historical glottal stop. > > Don Juanito and I remained good friends, made trips together, had > long chats with beer on my porch, but Paul and I found someone else to > help us through the hour-by-hour work all summer -- a sixteen year old > girl (and sometimes her father) from nearby Santa Catarina. > > When Indiana University wanted someone to teach Nahuatl in 1970, I > accepted the assignment with the understanding that they would pay a > native speaker to co-teach the class in a field methods format. The > young woman who spent an academic year in Bloomington was extremely > communicative (and very instrumental in my learning more Nahuatl) as we > spent many hours each week planning out "safe" areas of the language to > present in class. It was she who clarified for me the function of > reduplication in Nahuatl verbs through her hopping. > > Through the 1980s, I spent time in Cuernavaca and Taxco, looking for > people who spoke the Guerrero Balsas Valley Nahuatl. One person who > spent a lot of time with me was an elderly vendor from Ameyaltepec. > And in Taxco, a family from San Agustin Oapan seemed to adopt me, with > the young son abandoning his family work of painting amates and tending > their vending stall to spend mountains of time with me and my tape > recorder, acting as my "point man" in trips to outlying towns, and even > getting me to wade barefoot in the Balsas River, helping him with the > fishing nets. > > In 1989 and 1992 I worked with a native speaker from Canoa, Puebla, > the late Alberto Zepeda, in co-teaching a course on his dialect during > Fran's NEH Institutes. On Friday before the classes were to start on > Monday, I told him that I didn't know anything about Canoa Nahuatl, but > that by Monday we had to be ready to teach a class together as if I > did. And we repeated our co-teaching act at the University of Chicago > summer school in 1996. I can't imagine a more intense language > learning experience than those three summers. > > In the Spring semester of 1998, a speaker of the Tlaxcallan dialect > came to Bloomington and stayed well into the Summer. We visited each > other's classes > and became good friends, resulting in our sweating through the heat of > a sun-heated limestone building with no air-conditioning for weeks and > weeks to translate Gonzalez Casanova's _Cuentos Indigenas_ into > Tlaxcallan Nahuatl. > > These people have been my most important teachers of Nahuatl. Not > all of them had a teaching certificate, but that didn't diminish the > effect of their teaching on me. > > David's example of vowel-learning in the midst of sharing food > reminds me that many of you have undoubtedly had similar experiences. > > I would be amiss if I didn't mention two members of the Franciscan Order: > Fray Alonso de Molina and Fray Bernardino de Sahagun. They have both > been generous beyond the Call in the innumerable hours that they have > spent with me. > > Joe > > > > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From schwallr at potsdam.edu Fri May 14 01:15:06 2010 From: schwallr at potsdam.edu (John F. Schwaller) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 21:15:06 -0400 Subject: mohottah In-Reply-To: <20100513202500.u7ixrwnfk0sksckc@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: I guess I must have been earlier than I thought since I studied in 1972-74 with Joe. Tlahzocamati huel miac. > > Joe, > > You forgot to mention the fact that from 1970 until after 2000 at > Indiana University so many scholars now working with the language cut > their Nahuatl teeth on your table. > > Michael > > > > > Quoting "Campbell, R. Joe" : > >> Nocnihuan, >> >> I thought that I should probably clarify my use of the word >> "teachers" in my learning Nahuatl. I have to confess that I have never >> had a formal class in the language. By "teachers" in this context, I >> refer to the various native speakers who have helped me make progress. >> In 1962, I went to Tepoztlan, Morelos, as a member of a group of >> graduate students under the guidance of Ken Hale, then a young >> professor at the University of Illinois. He placed a group of four in >> the small nearby village of San Andres and helped Paul Puritt and me to >> find living space in Tepoztlan. Ken introduced me to a Nahuatl >> speaker, who was a veteran of the Revolution, in fact, who had fought >> with Zapata. I sat down with him and started asking for single word >> translations and repeating them as I made notes... That didn't work, >> since he had little patience for someone who mangled his words, failing >> miserably on the syllable-final [h], a frequent modern result of the >> historical glottal stop. >> >> Don Juanito and I remained good friends, made trips together, had >> long chats with beer on my porch, but Paul and I found someone else to >> help us through the hour-by-hour work all summer -- a sixteen year old >> girl (and sometimes her father) from nearby Santa Catarina. >> >> When Indiana University wanted someone to teach Nahuatl in 1970, I >> accepted the assignment with the understanding that they would pay a >> native speaker to co-teach the class in a field methods format. The >> young woman who spent an academic year in Bloomington was extremely >> communicative (and very instrumental in my learning more Nahuatl) as we >> spent many hours each week planning out "safe" areas of the language to >> present in class. It was she who clarified for me the function of >> reduplication in Nahuatl verbs through her hopping. >> >> Through the 1980s, I spent time in Cuernavaca and Taxco, looking for >> people who spoke the Guerrero Balsas Valley Nahuatl. One person who >> spent a lot of time with me was an elderly vendor from Ameyaltepec. >> And in Taxco, a family from San Agustin Oapan seemed to adopt me, with >> the young son abandoning his family work of painting amates and tending >> their vending stall to spend mountains of time with me and my tape >> recorder, acting as my "point man" in trips to outlying towns, and even >> getting me to wade barefoot in the Balsas River, helping him with the >> fishing nets. >> >> In 1989 and 1992 I worked with a native speaker from Canoa, Puebla, >> the late Alberto Zepeda, in co-teaching a course on his dialect during >> Fran's NEH Institutes. On Friday before the classes were to start on >> Monday, I told him that I didn't know anything about Canoa Nahuatl, but >> that by Monday we had to be ready to teach a class together as if I >> did. And we repeated our co-teaching act at the University of Chicago >> summer school in 1996. I can't imagine a more intense language >> learning experience than those three summers. >> >> In the Spring semester of 1998, a speaker of the Tlaxcallan dialect >> came to Bloomington and stayed well into the Summer. We visited each >> other's classes >> and became good friends, resulting in our sweating through the heat of >> a sun-heated limestone building with no air-conditioning for weeks and >> weeks to translate Gonzalez Casanova's _Cuentos Indigenas_ into >> Tlaxcallan Nahuatl. >> >> These people have been my most important teachers of Nahuatl. Not >> all of them had a teaching certificate, but that didn't diminish the >> effect of their teaching on me. >> >> David's example of vowel-learning in the midst of sharing food >> reminds me that many of you have undoubtedly had similar experiences. >> >> I would be amiss if I didn't mention two members of the Franciscan >> Order: >> Fray Alonso de Molina and Fray Bernardino de Sahagun. They have both >> been generous beyond the Call in the innumerable hours that they have >> spent with me. >> >> Joe >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Nahuatl mailing list >> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org >> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > -- John F. Schwaller President, SUNY Potsdam 44 Pierrepont Ave. Potsdam, NY 13676 schwallr at potsdam.edu _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From t_amaya at megared.net.mx Fri May 14 12:45:09 2010 From: t_amaya at megared.net.mx (Tomas Amaya) Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 07:45:09 -0500 Subject: mohottah In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Tocnihuan! I just want to make some contributions to the topic “mohotah”, with examples taken from the nahuat of Cuetzalan. 1. I have never heard mohota. I have heard: a. moi-itah (meaning: they see each other) b. moihitah (meaning: they stare at each other (inquisitively)) 2. Moomotah (they see each other frequently ) e.g. moomotah eheyitonaltica (they see each other every three days) 3. Other examples of reduplication: a. quiquequelohua: he tickles him b. quiquéhquelohua: he irritates, bothers (laugh at) him (e.g. yn Tezcatlipoca techquehquelohua) c. quiteetetenehua: he mentions one person and then another (e.g. describing what each person is doing) d. teetéhtenehua: he talks a lot (badly) about the people (e.g. the neighbors) 4. From the first time I read this “mohotah”, I related it with “moihitah”. Niamechyoltaatapalohua paaquiliztica, amo páapaquiliztica. Receive my heartfelt “hello” not my flattering “hi”. Tomas Amaya De: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org [mailto:nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org] En nombre de Leeming, Ben Enviado el: Miércoles, 12 de Mayo de 2010 09:07 a.m. Para: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org Asunto: [Nahuat-l] mohottah Piyali listeros, Can anyone explain to me the process by which mo+(i)ttah (they look at each other, see themselves) becomes mohottah? On p. 90 of Andrews’ Workbook (1975 ed.), Ex. 38A, no. 3 he writes: Nepanotl mohottah, and then on p. 195 gives the translation “They are staring at one another mutually; i.e., They are staring at one another.” On p. 445 of the text, in the Vocabulary under (iTTA) he has “MO-(iTTA) = to look at oneself, to see oneself.” This is close to but not identical with mohottah. I have this sinking feeling that it’s something really obvious, but for whatever reason I can’t account for that first h!! Thank you! Ben Ben Leeming Chair, History Department The Rivers School Weston, MA 02493 (781) 235-9300 _____ Sample disclaimer text __________ Información de ESET Smart Security, versión de la base de firmas de virus 5110 (20100512) __________ ESET Smart Security ha comprobado este mensaje. http://www.eset.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Fri May 14 22:30:41 2010 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 18:30:41 -0400 Subject: mohottah In-Reply-To: <000001caf363$49e644e0$ddb2cea0$@net.mx> Message-ID: Tlaxtlahui, Tomas, It's interesting to see how different dialects have solved this "problem". Michael Quoting Tomas Amaya : > Tocnihuan! > > I just want to make some contributions to the topic “mohotah”, with examples > taken from the nahuat of Cuetzalan. > > 1. I have never heard mohota. I have heard: > > a. moi-itah (meaning: they see each other) > > b. moihitah (meaning: they stare at each other (inquisitively)) > > 2. Moomotah (they see each other frequently ) e.g. moomotah > eheyitonaltica (they see each other every three days) > > 3. Other examples of reduplication: > > a. quiquequelohua: he tickles him > > b. quiquéhquelohua: he irritates, bothers (laugh at) him (e.g. yn > Tezcatlipoca techquehquelohua) > > c. quiteetetenehua: he mentions one person and then another (e.g. > describing what each person is doing) > > d. teetéhtenehua: he talks a lot (badly) about the people (e.g. the > neighbors) > > > > 4. From the first time I read this “mohotah”, I related it with > “moihitah”. > > Niamechyoltaatapalohua paaquiliztica, amo páapaquiliztica. Receive my > heartfelt “hello” not my flattering “hi”. > > > > Tomas Amaya > > > > > > De: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org [mailto:nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org] > En nombre de Leeming, Ben > Enviado el: Miércoles, 12 de Mayo de 2010 09:07 a.m. > Para: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > Asunto: [Nahuat-l] mohottah > > > > Piyali listeros, > > Can anyone explain to me the process by which mo+(i)ttah (they look at each > other, see themselves) becomes mohottah? > > On p. 90 of Andrews’ Workbook (1975 ed.), Ex. 38A, no. 3 he writes: Nepanotl > mohottah, and then on p. 195 gives the translation “They are staring at one > another mutually; i.e., They are staring at one another.” On p. 445 of the > text, in the Vocabulary under (iTTA) he has “MO-(iTTA) = to look at oneself, > to see oneself.” This is close to but not identical with mohottah. > > I have this sinking feeling that it’s something really obvious, but for > whatever reason I can’t account for that first h!! > > Thank you! > > Ben > > Ben Leeming > Chair, History Department > The Rivers School > Weston, MA 02493 > (781) 235-9300 > > _____ > > Sample disclaimer text > > > __________ Información de ESET Smart Security, versión de la base de firmas > de virus 5110 (20100512) __________ > > ESET Smart Security ha comprobado este mensaje. > > http://www.eset.com > > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From idiez at me.com Fri May 28 11:33:59 2010 From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan) Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 07:33:59 -0400 Subject: Nahuatl Twitter Message-ID: Piyali momachtianih, Iʻm in the final day of the Consortium for Language Teaching and Learningʻs workshop, "Exploring Pedagogical and Technological Models for Hybrid and Distance Collaborations" at Yale, and have finally persuaded myself to start a little project I have been thinking about and putting off for a while now. The people at IDIEZ now have a twitter account, and at least once per day, we will post a short phrase in Modern Huastecan Nahuatl, with a translation, for those of you who could use some Nahuatl on the run. Our Twitter name is "idiezac". Suggestions for content, criticisms, etc., are welcome. Blogs, wikis and more will follow soon. John John Sullivan, Ph.D. Professor of Nahua language and culture Universidad Autónoma de Zacatecas Zacatecas Institute of Teaching and Research in Ethnology Tacuba 152, int. 43 Centro Histórico Zacatecas, Zac. 98000 Mexico Work: +52 (492) 925-3415 Fax: +1 (858) 724-3030 (U.S.A.) Home: +52 (492) 768-6048 Mobile: +52 1 (492) 103-0195 idiez at me.com www.macehualli.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mbassett at gsu.edu Mon May 31 18:01:04 2010 From: mbassett at gsu.edu (Molly Bassett) Date: Mon, 31 May 2010 14:01:04 -0400 Subject: matlalin - blue, green, blue-green? Message-ID: Hi, all. I'm working on a piece dealing with the significance of colors in precontact Central Mexican religious contexts, and I have a question about the meaning of ma:tla:lin. Frances Karttunen follows Molina in defining matlalin as “the color dark green”: “This is attested in Z in matlalzahuatl (literally ‘green pox’) and possibly in Matlalpan, although the sense of the latter would be obcure from this gloss, which appears to have something to do with lowness of sature. Conceivably it is derived instead from tlalpan ‘on the ground'" (139). But Dibble & Anderson translate matlalin as “blue” in the Florentine, which notes that "its name comes from nowhere. It is the blossom of an herb, a blossom. This matlalin is blue and a little herb-green. It is very sound, firm, good, of good appearance, fresh green. It is fresh green, very resh green. . . . / acan quizqui in itoca, xihuitl ixochyo, xochitl: inin matlali texotic, ihuan achi quiltic, cenca ixtlapalhui, ixchicactic, cualli, cualnezqui, celic, celic, celpatic. . . ." (11: 240). The Badianus Ms. cites matlalxochitl (presumably the xochitl referred to in the Florentine?) as an element in a treatment for "heat" in the eyes (pl. 14, p. 218). The footnote for matlalxochitl glosses the term as "blue flower" identifies the plant as "the dayflower, Commelina, of which a number of species are found on the Mexican plateau. A native variant Nahuatl name for it is matlaliztic. Hernández refers to several varieties of matlalxochitl (pp. 383-4), but none of the illustrations resembles Commelina; thus the name must have been applied to several flowers of blue color" (219-20). So, two of these three sources relate matlalin to blue; I haven't followed up on Hernández yet. Are there other places I should look for more information on matlalin as blue or green? I realize that blue-green functioned as a range or spectrum in precontact Mesoamerica, but the discrepancy among these sources has piqued my curiosity. Thanks, Molly ---------------------------------------------------------- Molly H. Bassett Assistant Professor, Mesoamerican Religions and Indigenous Traditions Department of Religious Studies Georgia State University 1137 34 Peachtree Street NW Atlanta, GA 30302 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From t_amaya at megared.net.mx Sat May 1 15:56:54 2010 From: t_amaya at megared.net.mx (Tomas Amaya) Date: Sat, 1 May 2010 10:56:54 -0500 Subject: JOYAS BIBLIOGRAFICAS PARA EL ESTUDIO DEL NAHUATL, OTOMI Y TARASCO ACCESIBLES EN LA WEB In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hola Roberto, David y dem?s Listeros. Con entusiasmo por los libros a los que se puede tener acceso en estas bibliotecas, quiero tambi?n quiero hacer de su conocimiento el Link de la Biblioteca Lafragua de la Universidad Aut?ma de Puebla. http://www.lafragua.buap.mx/ Entre su acervo digital se puede consultar el C?dice Sierra y el c?dice Yanhuitlan. Que los disfruten. Saludos desde Puebla/Namechoyoltlapalohua Cuetlaxcoapanpa? Tomas Amaya De: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org [mailto:nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org] En nombre de roberto romero Enviado el: Martes, 27 de Abril de 2010 10:38 a.m. Para: Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org Asunto: [Nahuat-l] JOYAS BIBLIOGRAFICAS PARA EL ESTUDIO DEL NAHUATL, OTOMI Y TARASCO ACCESIBLES EN LA WEB Estimados foristas comparto con ustedes el descubrimiento de un verdadero tesoro que libre , gratuita y sin condici?n alguna ha puesto a disposici?n de todo quien desee obtenerlo una Universidad P?blica, quien mas si no ellas en M?xico, pues las privadas solo exprimen al cliente y conforman oligofr?nicos tecn?cratas o dips?manos y cr?pulas gobernantes como los que desde hace 25 a?os padecemos en este dolorido y ensangrentrado pa?s llamado M?xico. La Universidad Aut?noma de Nuevo Le?n por medio de su Direcci?n General de Bibliotecas ha hecho una notable obra , encomiable en todos sentidos y digna de admiraci?n, apoyo y respeto; creando la Colecci?n Digital UANL . Un ejemplo que ojala se repita e otras universidad de este pa?s y del mundo. Su direcci?n es http://cd.dgb.uanl.mx/index.php La UNAL ha puesto en linea parte fondos reservados "El objetivo de esta Colecci?n es difundir los documentos mediante el acceso electr?nico al texto completo de los mismos, a la vez que contribuir a su conservaci?n. Tiene como principal antecedente e inspiraci?n el Programa Memoria del Mundo de la UNESCO, cuyo prop?sito es asegurar la preservaci?n del patrimonio documental de importancia nacional y regional." "La Colecci?n Digital de la UANL est? conformada por documentos editados durante los siglos XVI al XIX, en espa?ol, italiano, franc?s y lat?n, as? como por las tesis de postgrado (Maestr?a, Especialidad y Doctorado) generadas en la UANL y por otros documentos de inter?s para la investigaci?n. Los documentos de esta colecci?n forman parte de los acervos bibliogr?ficos que poseen la Biblioteca Universitaria Ra?l Rangel Fr?as, Capilla Alfonsina Biblioteca Universitaria, Centro Regional de Informaci?n y Documentaci?n en Salud de la Facultad de Medicina y Biblioteca Jos? Juan Vallejo de la Facultad de Derecho y Criminolog?a. La Colecci?n Digital de la UANL, esta integrada actualmente por: 16,766 t?tulos con 17,430 vol?menes. De manera gratuita, libre ,sin condici?n alguna , sin tener que recibir basura en tu correo : LOS ESTUDIOSOS DEL NAHUATL A TODO NIVEL ENCUENTRAN EN ?STA BIBLIOTECA DIGITAL DE LA UANL VERDADERAS E INAPRECIABLES JOYAS BIBLIOGR?FICAS COMO: Arte mexicana / compuesta por Antonio del Rinc?n. M?xico: Oficina Tip. de la Secretar?a de Fomento, 1885. Edicion preparada por Antonio Pe?afiel Arte Mexicana por el jesuita Antonio del Rincon , indio texocoano y que fue publicado originalmente en 1595, Nahuatl texcocano EN ESTE MISMO VOLUMEN SE ENCUENTRA TAMBIEN PUBLICADO Arte de la lengua mexicana por el Padre Horacio Carochi. Los estudiosos del Nahuatl saben lo valioso que es esta joya publicada originalmente en 1695 Arte de la Lengua tarasca de Diego de Basalenque publicada en 1714 Todo esto manjar en el siguiente link http://cdigital.dgb.uanl.mx/la/1080018793/1080018793.html y la muy interezante obra del Nahuatl de la regi?n cazcana, DE JALISCO, ZACATECAS Y DURANGO se encuentra ?sta edici?n preparada por el notable historiador Santoscoy.y publiicada en 1900: Arte de lengua mexicana que fue usual entre los indios del Obispado de Guadalajara y de parte de los de Durango y Michoac?n, escrito en 1692 / por Fr. Juan Guerra.Guadalajara, Jal.: Ancira y Hno., 1900. http://cdigital.dgb.uanl.mx/la/1080013823/1080013823.html Y tamabien con varios materiales mas incluidos en este volumen encontramos: T?tulo: Arte de la lengua mexicana / el Br. en sagrada teolog?a Rafael Sandoval Autor: Sandoval, Rafael Tiburcio. Pie de imprenta: M?xico : Tip. La Reproducci?n, 1888 Materia: Nahua -- Gram?tica. N?mero de control (Bibid): 18443 http://cdigital.dgb.uanl.mx/la/1080013824/1080013824.html Y para los estudiosos del otomi como nuestro siempre generoso forista David Wright que sufre con las ventas de libros frudulentos o mal editados la biblioteca digital de la UNAL contiene esto: Luces de Otom? ? gram?tica del idioma que hablan los indios otom?es en la Rep?blica Mexicana / por Eustaquio Buelna. Autor: Buelna, Eustaquio, 1830-1907. Pie de imprenta: M?xico: Imp. del Gobierno Federal, 1893 Materia: Indios de M?xico -- Lenguas. / Otom?es. N?mero de control (Bibid): 17692 Este trae en su Libro segundo puro manajar para los estudiosos del otomi pues contienene este libro segundo: Luces del Otom? observadas ? tres famosos lenguaraces, los padres Horacio Carochi y Francisco Jim?nez, de la Compa??a de Jes?s, u Juan S?nchez de la Baquera, secular de Tula. Y en su Cap?tulo vig?simo primero - Cap?tulo vig?simo segundo Cap?tulo vig?simo primero. Luz de algunos adverbios que usaban los disc?pulos de Juan S?nchez. Cap?tulo vig?simo segundo. Diccionario formado de algunos t?rminos observados en algunos papeles y disc?pulos de Juan S?nchez de la Baquera. Libro tercero. De las luces que ?tilmente se consiguieron de D. Lu?s de Neve, presb?tero, sinodal de este Arzobispado. http://cdigital.dgb.uanl.mx/la/1080012545/1080012545.html T?tulo: Luces del otomi ? gram?tica del idioma que hablan los indios otom?es en la republica mexicana, compuesta / un padre de la compa??a de Jes?s Autor: [Basilio, Tomas], 1654- Pie de imprenta: M?xico : Imp. del Gobierno Federal, 1893 Materia: Otom?. N?mero de control (Bibid): 66154 Es el contenido anterior de la edici?n de don Eustaquio Buelna, sabio sinaloense. http://cdigital.dgb.uanl.mx/la/1080043172/1080043172.html T?tulo: Lenguas ind?genas de M?xico : Familia mixteco - zapoteco y sus relaciones con el otomi.- Familia zoque-mixe.-chontal.- Huave y mexicano / Francisco Belmar Autor: Belmar, Francisco, 1859 Pie de imprenta: M?xico : Impr. Particular, 1905 Materia: Indios de M?xico -- Lenguas. N?mero de control (Bibid): 34290 http://cdigital.dgb.uanl.mx/la/1080018786/1080018786.html A continuaci?n comparto el resultado de la busqueda de titulos en esta Biblioteca virtual por medio de distintas palabras clave. Encontrando los siguientes materiales utiles para el estudio del Nahuatl: Ha buscado : nahua Resultados desde el 1 hasta el 10 de un total de 18 encontrados. Nueva b?squeda T?tulo: Annales de Domingo Francisco de San Anton Chimalpahin Cuauhtlehuanitzin, sixieme et septieme relations (1258-1612) Autor: Chimalpain Cuauhtlehuanitzin, Domingo Francisco de San Ant?n Mu??n, 1579-1660. Pie de imprenta: Par?s : Maisonneuve et Ch. Leclerc, 1889 Materia: Nahua -- Textos. / M?xico -- Historia. N?mero de control (Bibid): 17309 T?tulo: Arte de la lengua mexicana / el Br. en sagrada teolog?a Rafael Sandoval Autor: Sandoval, Rafael Tiburcio. Pie de imprenta: M?xico : Tip. La Reproducci?n, 1888 Materia: Nahua -- Gram?tica. N?mero de control (Bibid): 18443 T?tulo: Arte de lengua mexicana que fu? usual entre los indios del obispado de Guadalajara y de parte de los de Durango y Michoac?n, escrito en 1692 / Fr. Juan Guerra Autor: Guerra, Juan, fl. 1690. Pie de imprenta: Guadalajara, Jal. : Ancira y Hno., 1900 Materia: Nahua -- Gram?tica. N?mero de control (Bibid): 18442 T?tulo: Arte mexicana. / compuesta por Antonio del Rinc?n Autor: Rinc?n, Antonio del, 1556-1601. Pie de imprenta: M?xico : Oficina Tip. de la Secretar?a de Fomento, 1885 Materia: Nahua -- Gram?tica. N?mero de control (Bibid): 34299 T?tulo: Arte mexicana. compuesta por el padre Antonio del Rinc?n de la Compa?ia de Jesus ; dirigido al illustrissimo y reverendissimo S. Don Diego Romano Obispo de Tlaxcallan y el consejo de su Magestad &c. en M?xico en casa de Pedro Balli, 1595. Autor: Rinc?n, Antonio del 1556-1601. Pie de imprenta: M?xico : Oficina Tip. de la Secretar?a de Fomento, 1885. Notas: Se reimprime en 1885 bajo el ciudado del Dr. Antonio Pe?afiel. Materia: Nahua Gram?tica. N?mero de control (Bibid): UANL001007328 T?tulo: Curso catequ?stico para el uso de las escuelas y colegios ; colecci?n gradual de catecismos de doctrina cristiana, religi?n y urbanidad arreglos para el seminario de Morelia Autor: Ripalda, Ger?nimo de, 1536-1618. Pie de imprenta: M?xico : Imp. de J.M. Lara Materia: Nahua -- Textos. N?mero de control (Bibid): UANL000175926 T?tulo: Diccionario de aztequismos o sea cat?logo de las palabras del idioma nahuatl, azteca o mexicano introducidas al idioma castellano bajo diversas formas / Cecilio A. Robelo. Autor: Robelo, Cecilio Agust?n, 1839-1916. Pie de imprenta: Cuernavaca : Imprenta del Autor, 1904. Materia: Nahua -- Diccionarios -- Espa?ol. N?mero de control (Bibid): 70516 T?tulo: Ep?tome o modo f?cil de aprender el idioma nahuatl o lengua mexicana / Faustino Chimalpopoca Autor: Galicia Chimalpopoca, Faustino, m. 1877. Pie de imprenta: M?xico : Tip. de la V. de Murgu?a e hijos, Portal del Aguila de Oro, [s.a.] Materia: Nahua -- Dialectos. / Nahua -- Gram?tica. N?mero de control (Bibid): 67887 T?tulo: Estudio de la filosof?a y riqueza de la lengua mexicana / Agust?n de la Rosa Autor: Rosa, Agust?n de la, 1824-1907. Pie de imprenta: Guadalajara, Jal. : Est. Tip. del Gob., 1889 Materia: Nahua -- Gram?tica. N?mero de control (Bibid): 33077 T?tulo: Glosario de voces castellanas, derivadas del idioma Nahuatl o Mexicano / Jes?s S?nchez Autor: Sanchez, Jes?s. Pie de imprenta: M?xico : Imp. de la Soc. Agricola Mexicana, 1902 Materia: Nahua. / Nahua -- Gram?tica. N?mero de control (Bibid): 71927 T?tulo: Gram?tica del idioma mexicano, seg?n el sistema de Ollendorff/ el presb?tero Dar?o Julio Caballero Autor: Caballero, Dar?o Julio. Pie de imprenta: M?xico : Tip. Literaria de Filomeno Mata, 1880 Materia: Nahua -- Gram?tica. N?mero de control (Bibid): 18438 T?tulo: Historia General de las Cosas de Nueva Espa?a / por el R. P. Fr. Bernardino de Sahag?n. Autor: Sahag?n, Bernardino de, Fray, 1499?-1590. Pie de imprenta: M?xico: impr. del Ciudadano A. Vald?s, 1829-9999 Materia: Indios de M?xico -- Antig?edades. / Aztecas. / Calendario mexicano. / Nahua -- Textos. / M?xico -- Historia -- Descubrimiento y conquista, 1517-1521. N?mero de control (Bibid): 17801 T?tulo: Las aztecas : poes?as, tomadas de los antiguos cantares mexicanos / Jos? Joaqu?n Pesado Pie de imprenta: M?xico : Impr. de V. Segura Arguelles, 1854 Materia: Poes?a nahua -- Traducciones al espa?ol. / Poes?a nahua -- Colecciones. N?mero de control (Bibid): 33569 T?tulo: Nombres geogr?ficos de M?xico : cat?logo alfab?tico de los nombres de lugar pertenecientes al idioma nahuatl ; estudio gerogl?fico de la matricula de los tributos del Codice Mendocino / Antonio Pe?afiel. Autor: Pe?afiel, Antonio, 1831-1922. Pie de imprenta: M?xico : Secretar?a de Fomento, 1885, Materia: Nombres geogr?ficos -- M?xico. / Nahua. / Escritura pict?rica mexicana. / Codex Mendocino. N?mero de control (Bibid): 34215 T?tulo: Nombres geogr?ficos ind?genas del estado de Morelos : Estudio cr?tico de varias obras de toponomateolog?a Nahua / el Lic. Cecilio A.Robelo Autor: Robelo, Cecilio Agust?n, 1839-1916. Pie de imprenta: Cuernavaca : Impr. Luis G. Miranda, 1897 Materia: Nombres geogr?ficos -- M?xico -- Morelos. / Nahua -- Gram?tica. / Nahua -- Etimolog?as -- Nombres. / Indios de M?xico -- Nombres. N?mero de control (Bibid): 18453 T?tulo: Toponimia maya-hispano-nahoa / por Cecilio A. Robelo. Autor: Robelo, Cecilio Agust?n, 1839-1916. Pie de imprenta: Curnavaca: Impr. de Jos? D. Rojas, 1902 Materia: Nombres geogr?ficos -- M?xico. / Nahua -- Etimolog?as -- Nombres. / Maya -- Etimolog?as -- Nombres. N?mero de control (Bibid): 62022 T?tulo: Vocabulario comparativo castellano y n?huatl / Cecilio A. Rabelo Autor: Rabelo, Cecilio Agust?n, 1839-1916. Pie de imprenta: Cuernavaca : Luis G. Miranda, 1888 Materia: Nahua -- Diccionarios -- Espa?ol. / Espa?ol -- Diccionarios -- Nahua. N?mero de control (Bibid): 34220 T?tulo: Vocabulario comparativo castellano y nahuatl / el Lic. Cecilio A. Robelo Autor: Robelo, Cecilio Agust?n, 1839-1916. Pie de imprenta: Cuernavaca : L.G. Miranda, 1888 Materia: Espa?ol -- Diccionarios -- Nahua. / Nahua -- Diccionarios -- Espa?ol. N?mero de control (Bibid): 18449 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx bajo la busqueda por Nahuatl Ha buscado : nahuatl Resultados desde el 1 hasta el 7 de un total de 7 encontrados. Nueva b?squeda 1 T?tulo: Diccionario de aztequismos : ? sea, cat?logo de las palabras del idioma nahuatl, azteca ? mexicano, introducidos al idioma castellano bajo diversas formas (contribuci?n al diccionario nacional) / Cecilio A. Robelo Autor: Robelo, Cecilio Agust?n, 1839-1916. Pie de imprenta: Cuernavaca : Impr. del autor, 1904 Materia: Espa?ol -- Provincialismos -- M?xico. / Espa?ol -- Palabras y frases de or?gen extranjero -- Azteca. N?mero de control (Bibid): 18397 T?tulo: Diccionario de aztequismos o sea cat?logo de las palabras del idioma nahuatl, azteca o mexicano introducidas al idioma castellano bajo diversas formas / Cecilio A. Robelo. Autor: Robelo, Cecilio Agust?n, 1839-1916. Pie de imprenta: Cuernavaca : Imprenta del Autor, 1904. Materia: Nahua -- Diccionarios -- Espa?ol. N?mero de control (Bibid): 70516 T?tulo: Ep?tome o modo f?cil de aprender el idioma nahuatl o lengua mexicana / Faustino Chimalpopoca Autor: Galicia Chimalpopoca, Faustino, m. 1877. Pie de imprenta: M?xico : Tip. de la V. de Murgu?a e hijos, Portal del Aguila de Oro, [s.a.] Materia: Nahua -- Dialectos. / Nahua -- Gram?tica. N?mero de control (Bibid): 67887 T?tulo: Glosario de voces castellanas, derivadas del idioma Nahuatl o Mexicano / Jes?s S?nchez Autor: Sanchez, Jes?s. Pie de imprenta: M?xico : Imp. de la Soc. Agricola Mexicana, 1902 Materia: Nahua. / Nahua -- Gram?tica. N?mero de control (Bibid): 71927 T?tulo: Nombres geogr?ficos de M?xico : cat?logo alfab?tico de los nombres de lugar pertenecientes al idioma nahuatl ; estudio gerogl?fico de la matricula de los tributos del Codice Mendocino / Antonio Pe?afiel. Autor: Pe?afiel, Antonio, 1831-1922. Pie de imprenta: M?xico : Secretar?a de Fomento, 1885, Materia: Nombres geogr?ficos -- M?xico. / Nahua. / Escritura pict?rica mexicana. / Codex Mendocino. N?mero de control (Bibid): 34215 T?tulo: Vocabulario comparativo castellano y n?huatl / Cecilio A. Rabelo Autor: Rabelo, Cecilio Agust?n, 1839-1916. Pie de imprenta: Cuernavaca : Luis G. Miranda, 1888 Materia: Nahua -- Diccionarios -- Espa?ol. / Espa?ol -- Diccionarios -- Nahua. N?mero de control (Bibid): 34220 T?tulo: Vocabulario comparativo castellano y nahuatl / el Lic. Cecilio A. Robelo Autor: Robelo, Cecilio Agust?n, 1839-1916. Pie de imprenta: Cuernavaca : L.G. Miranda, 1888 Materia: Espa?ol -- Diccionarios -- Nahua. / Nahua -- Diccionarios -- Espa?ol. N?mero de control (Bibid): 18449 Ha buscado : nahoa Resultados desde el 1 hasta el 3 de un total de 3 encontrados. T?tulo: Diccionario de mitolog?a nahoa / Cecilio A. Robelo. Autor: Robelo, Cecilio Agust?n, 1839-1916. Pie de imprenta: M?xico : impr. del Museo Nacional, 1905 Materia: Mitolog?a azteca -- Diccionarios. N?mero de control (Bibid): 17706 T?tulo: Sinopsis topon?mica Nahoa del Distrito Federal Autor: Robelo, Cecilio Agust?n, 1839-1916. Pie de imprenta: Cuernavaca, Mor.: Tip. y Lib. Jos? D. Rojas, 1901 Materia: Nombres geogr?ficos -- M?xico. N?mero de control (Bibid): 18811 T?tulo: Toponimia maya-hispano-nahoa / por Cecilio A. Robelo. Autor: Robelo, Cecilio Agust?n, 1839-1916. Pie de imprenta: Curnavaca: Impr. de Jos? D. Rojas, 1902 Materia: Nombres geogr?ficos -- M?xico. / Nahua -- Etimolog?as -- Nombres. / Maya -- Etimolog?as -- Nombres. N?mero de control (Bibid): 62022 Los investigadores interesados en la historia de la conquista y vida colonial de Nueva Galicia, Zacatecas, Jalisco, Nayarit, La Nueva Vizcaya, la rebelion Cazcana, la Tepehuana, la Guerra chichimeca , los Huicholes , los Coras, la arqueologia de la quemada , la independencia de M?xico , el imperio de maximiliano, la epoca santanista, etct, etc encontraran en esta biblioteca verdaderas e inapreciables joyas bibliogr?ficas muchas de ellas inconseguibles de forma f?sica como por ejemplo los textos de Frejes, Arlegui, Mota Padilla, el segundo volumen del padre Tello o la notable historia del zacatecano Elias Amador, la obra de Carlos Maria de Bustamante, etc, etc. DESEO QUE LOS FORITAS PUEDAN RECOMENDAR Y DIFUNDIR ESTE VALIOSO RECURSO QUE OFRECE LA UANL DE MEXICO ENTRE SUS COLEGAS Y ALUMNOS E IMPULSEN SE REPITA SU EJEMPLO ENTRE OTRAS UNIVERSIDADES DE MEXICO Y EL MUNDO COLOCANDO EN LA WEB FONDOS RESERVADOS PARA LA DIFUSI?N DEL SABER HUMANO Y DE FORMA LIBRE ,GRATUITA Y SIN CONDICIONES. Un saludo para todos desde la hoy muy calurosa "garganta de tierra adentro" en M?xico ROBERTO ROMERO GUTIERREZ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From macuil2 at msn.com Sun May 2 02:10:03 2010 From: macuil2 at msn.com (Raul macuil martinez) Date: Sun, 2 May 2010 04:10:03 +0200 Subject: JOYAS BIBLIOGRAFICAS PARA EL ESTUDIO DEL NAHUATL, OTOMI Y TARASCO ACCESIBLES EN LA WEB In-Reply-To: <000301cae946$ebe29cc0$c3a7d640$@net.mx> Message-ID: El siguiente link es del sitio amoxcalli.org.com En este se encuentran todos los documentos mexicanos que hay en la Biblioteca Nacional de Par?s... Saludos a todos Raul Macuil Mart?nez. From: t_amaya at megared.net.mx To: cuecuex at gmail.com; Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org Date: Sat, 1 May 2010 10:56:54 -0500 Subject: Re: [Nahuat-l] JOYAS BIBLIOGRAFICAS PARA EL ESTUDIO DEL NAHUATL, OTOMI Y TARASCO ACCESIBLES EN LA WEB Hola Roberto, David y dem?s Listeros. Con entusiasmo por los libros a los que se puede tener acceso en estas bibliotecas, quiero tambi?n quiero hacer de su conocimiento el Link de la Biblioteca Lafragua de la Universidad Aut?ma de Puebla. http://www.lafragua.buap.mx/ Entre su acervo digital se puede consultar el C?dice Sierra y el c?dice Yanhuitlan. Que los disfruten. Saludos desde Puebla/Namechoyoltlapalohua Cuetlaxcoapanpa? Tomas Amaya De: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org [mailto:nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org] En nombre de roberto romero Enviado el: Martes, 27 de Abril de 2010 10:38 a.m. Para: Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org Asunto: [Nahuat-l] JOYAS BIBLIOGRAFICAS PARA EL ESTUDIO DEL NAHUATL, OTOMI Y TARASCO ACCESIBLES EN LA WEB Estimados foristas comparto con ustedes el descubrimiento de un verdadero tesoro que libre , gratuita y sin condici?n alguna ha puesto a disposici?n de todo quien desee obtenerlo una Universidad P?blica, quien mas si no ellas en M?xico, pues las privadas solo exprimen al cliente y conforman oligofr?nicos tecn?cratas o dips?manos y cr?pulas gobernantes como los que desde hace 25 a?os padecemos en este dolorido y ensangrentrado pa?s llamado M?xico. La Universidad Aut?noma de Nuevo Le?n por medio de su Direcci?n General de Bibliotecas ha hecho una notable obra , encomiable en todos sentidos y digna de admiraci?n, apoyo y respeto; creando la Colecci?n Digital UANL . Un ejemplo que ojala se repita e otras universidad de este pa?s y del mundo. Su direcci?n es http://cd.dgb.uanl.mx/index.php La UNAL ha puesto en linea parte fondos reservados "El objetivo de esta Colecci?n es difundir los documentos mediante el acceso electr?nico al texto completo de los mismos, a la vez que contribuir a su conservaci?n. Tiene como principal antecedente e inspiraci?n el Programa Memoria del Mundo de la UNESCO, cuyo prop?sito es asegurar la preservaci?n del patrimonio documental de importancia nacional y regional." "La Colecci?n Digital de la UANL est? conformada por documentos editados durante los siglos XVI al XIX, en espa?ol, italiano, franc?s y lat?n, as? como por las tesis de postgrado (Maestr?a, Especialidad y Doctorado) generadas en la UANL y por otros documentos de inter?s para la investigaci?n. Los documentos de esta colecci?n forman parte de los acervos bibliogr?ficos que poseen la Biblioteca Universitaria Ra?l Rangel Fr?as, Capilla Alfonsina Biblioteca Universitaria, Centro Regional de Informaci?n y Documentaci?n en Salud de la Facultad de Medicina y Biblioteca Jos? Juan Vallejo de la Facultad de Derecho y Criminolog?a. La Colecci?n Digital de la UANL, esta integrada actualmente por: 16,766 t?tulos con 17,430 vol?menes. De manera gratuita, libre ,sin condici?n alguna , sin tener que recibir basura en tu correo : LOS ESTUDIOSOS DEL NAHUATL A TODO NIVEL ENCUENTRAN EN ?STA BIBLIOTECA DIGITAL DE LA UANL VERDADERAS E INAPRECIABLES JOYAS BIBLIOGR?FICAS COMO: Arte mexicana / compuesta por Antonio del Rinc?n. M?xico: Oficina Tip. de la Secretar?a de Fomento, 1885. Edicion preparada por Antonio Pe?afiel Arte Mexicana por el jesuita Antonio del Rincon , indio texocoano y que fue publicado originalmente en 1595, Nahuatl texcocano EN ESTE MISMO VOLUMEN SE ENCUENTRA TAMBIEN PUBLICADO Arte de la lengua mexicana por el Padre Horacio Carochi. Los estudiosos del Nahuatl saben lo valioso que es esta joya publicada originalmente en 1695 Arte de la Lengua tarasca de Diego de Basalenque publicada en 1714 Todo esto manjar en el siguiente link http://cdigital.dgb.uanl.mx/la/1080018793/1080018793.html y la muy interezante obra del Nahuatl de la regi?n cazcana, DE JALISCO, ZACATECAS Y DURANGO se encuentra ?sta edici?n preparada por el notable historiador Santoscoy.y publiicada en 1900: Arte de lengua mexicana que fue usual entre los indios del Obispado de Guadalajara y de parte de los de Durango y Michoac?n, escrito en 1692 / por Fr. Juan Guerra.Guadalajara, Jal.: Ancira y Hno., 1900. http://cdigital.dgb.uanl.mx/la/1080013823/1080013823.html Y tamabien con varios materiales mas incluidos en este volumen encontramos: T?tulo: Arte de la lengua mexicana / el Br. en sagrada teolog?a Rafael Sandoval Autor: Sandoval, Rafael Tiburcio. Pie de imprenta: M?xico : Tip. La Reproducci?n, 1888 Materia: Nahua -- Gram?tica. N?mero de control (Bibid): 18443 http://cdigital.dgb.uanl.mx/la/1080013824/1080013824.html Y para los estudiosos del otomi como nuestro siempre generoso forista David Wright que sufre con las ventas de libros frudulentos o mal editados la biblioteca digital de la UNAL contiene esto: Luces de Otom? ? gram?tica del idioma que hablan los indios otom?es en la Rep?blica Mexicana / por Eustaquio Buelna. Autor: Buelna, Eustaquio, 1830-1907. Pie de imprenta: M?xico: Imp. del Gobierno Federal, 1893 Materia: Indios de M?xico -- Lenguas. / Otom?es. N?mero de control (Bibid): 17692 Este trae en su Libro segundo puro manajar para los estudiosos del otomi pues contienene este libro segundo: Luces del Otom? observadas ? tres famosos lenguaraces, los padres Horacio Carochi y Francisco Jim?nez, de la Compa??a de Jes?s, u Juan S?nchez de la Baquera, secular de Tula. Y en su Cap?tulo vig?simo primero - Cap?tulo vig?simo segundo Cap?tulo vig?simo primero. Luz de algunos adverbios que usaban los disc?pulos de Juan S?nchez. Cap?tulo vig?simo segundo. Diccionario formado de algunos t?rminos observados en algunos papeles y disc?pulos de Juan S?nchez de la Baquera. Libro tercero. De las luces que ?tilmente se consiguieron de D. Lu?s de Neve, presb?tero, sinodal de este Arzobispado. http://cdigital.dgb.uanl.mx/la/1080012545/1080012545.html T?tulo: Luces del otomi ? gram?tica del idioma que hablan los indios otom?es en la republica mexicana, compuesta / un padre de la compa??a de Jes?s Autor: [Basilio, Tomas], 1654- Pie de imprenta: M?xico : Imp. del Gobierno Federal, 1893 Materia: Otom?. N?mero de control (Bibid): 66154 Es el contenido anterior de la edici?n de don Eustaquio Buelna, sabio sinaloense. http://cdigital.dgb.uanl.mx/la/1080043172/1080043172.html T?tulo: Lenguas ind?genas de M?xico : Familia mixteco - zapoteco y sus relaciones con el otomi.- Familia zoque-mixe.-chontal.- Huave y mexicano / Francisco Belmar Autor: Belmar, Francisco, 1859 Pie de imprenta: M?xico : Impr. Particular, 1905 Materia: Indios de M?xico -- Lenguas. N?mero de control (Bibid): 34290 http://cdigital.dgb.uanl.mx/la/1080018786/1080018786.html A continuaci?n comparto el resultado de la busqueda de titulos en esta Biblioteca virtual por medio de distintas palabras clave. Encontrando los siguientes materiales utiles para el estudio del Nahuatl: Ha buscado : nahua Resultados desde el 1 hasta el 10 de un total de 18 encontrados. Nueva b?squeda T?tulo: Annales de Domingo Francisco de San Anton Chimalpahin Cuauhtlehuanitzin, sixieme et septieme relations (1258-1612) Autor: Chimalpain Cuauhtlehuanitzin, Domingo Francisco de San Ant?n Mu??n, 1579-1660. Pie de imprenta: Par?s : Maisonneuve et Ch. Leclerc, 1889 Materia: Nahua -- Textos. / M?xico -- Historia. N?mero de control (Bibid): 17309 T?tulo: Arte de la lengua mexicana / el Br. en sagrada teolog?a Rafael Sandoval Autor: Sandoval, Rafael Tiburcio. Pie de imprenta: M?xico : Tip. La Reproducci?n, 1888 Materia: Nahua -- Gram?tica. N?mero de control (Bibid): 18443 T?tulo: Arte de lengua mexicana que fu? usual entre los indios del obispado de Guadalajara y de parte de los de Durango y Michoac?n, escrito en 1692 / Fr. Juan Guerra Autor: Guerra, Juan, fl. 1690. Pie de imprenta: Guadalajara, Jal. : Ancira y Hno., 1900 Materia: Nahua -- Gram?tica. N?mero de control (Bibid): 18442 T?tulo: Arte mexicana. / compuesta por Antonio del Rinc?n Autor: Rinc?n, Antonio del, 1556-1601. Pie de imprenta: M?xico : Oficina Tip. de la Secretar?a de Fomento, 1885 Materia: Nahua -- Gram?tica. N?mero de control (Bibid): 34299 T?tulo: Arte mexicana. compuesta por el padre Antonio del Rinc?n de la Compa?ia de Jesus ; dirigido al illustrissimo y reverendissimo S. Don Diego Romano Obispo de Tlaxcallan y el consejo de su Magestad &c. en M?xico en casa de Pedro Balli, 1595. Autor: Rinc?n, Antonio del 1556-1601. Pie de imprenta: M?xico : Oficina Tip. de la Secretar?a de Fomento, 1885. Notas: Se reimprime en 1885 bajo el ciudado del Dr. Antonio Pe?afiel. Materia: Nahua Gram?tica. N?mero de control (Bibid): UANL001007328 T?tulo: Curso catequ?stico para el uso de las escuelas y colegios ; colecci?n gradual de catecismos de doctrina cristiana, religi?n y urbanidad arreglos para el seminario de Morelia Autor: Ripalda, Ger?nimo de, 1536-1618. Pie de imprenta: M?xico : Imp. de J.M. Lara Materia: Nahua -- Textos. N?mero de control (Bibid): UANL000175926 T?tulo: Diccionario de aztequismos o sea cat?logo de las palabras del idioma nahuatl, azteca o mexicano introducidas al idioma castellano bajo diversas formas / Cecilio A. Robelo. Autor: Robelo, Cecilio Agust?n, 1839-1916. Pie de imprenta: Cuernavaca : Imprenta del Autor, 1904. Materia: Nahua -- Diccionarios -- Espa?ol. N?mero de control (Bibid): 70516 T?tulo: Ep?tome o modo f?cil de aprender el idioma nahuatl o lengua mexicana / Faustino Chimalpopoca Autor: Galicia Chimalpopoca, Faustino, m. 1877. Pie de imprenta: M?xico : Tip. de la V. de Murgu?a e hijos, Portal del Aguila de Oro, [s.a.] Materia: Nahua -- Dialectos. / Nahua -- Gram?tica. N?mero de control (Bibid): 67887 T?tulo: Estudio de la filosof?a y riqueza de la lengua mexicana / Agust?n de la Rosa Autor: Rosa, Agust?n de la, 1824-1907. Pie de imprenta: Guadalajara, Jal. : Est. Tip. del Gob., 1889 Materia: Nahua -- Gram?tica. N?mero de control (Bibid): 33077 T?tulo: Glosario de voces castellanas, derivadas del idioma Nahuatl o Mexicano / Jes?s S?nchez Autor: Sanchez, Jes?s. Pie de imprenta: M?xico : Imp. de la Soc. Agricola Mexicana, 1902 Materia: Nahua. / Nahua -- Gram?tica. N?mero de control (Bibid): 71927 T?tulo: Gram?tica del idioma mexicano, seg?n el sistema de Ollendorff/ el presb?tero Dar?o Julio Caballero Autor: Caballero, Dar?o Julio. Pie de imprenta: M?xico : Tip. Literaria de Filomeno Mata, 1880 Materia: Nahua -- Gram?tica. N?mero de control (Bibid): 18438 T?tulo: Historia General de las Cosas de Nueva Espa?a / por el R. P. Fr. Bernardino de Sahag?n. Autor: Sahag?n, Bernardino de, Fray, 1499?-1590. Pie de imprenta: M?xico: impr. del Ciudadano A. Vald?s, 1829-9999 Materia: Indios de M?xico -- Antig?edades. / Aztecas. / Calendario mexicano. / Nahua -- Textos. / M?xico -- Historia -- Descubrimiento y conquista, 1517-1521. N?mero de control (Bibid): 17801 T?tulo: Las aztecas : poes?as, tomadas de los antiguos cantares mexicanos / Jos? Joaqu?n Pesado Pie de imprenta: M?xico : Impr. de V. Segura Arguelles, 1854 Materia: Poes?a nahua -- Traducciones al espa?ol. / Poes?a nahua -- Colecciones. N?mero de control (Bibid): 33569 T?tulo: Nombres geogr?ficos de M?xico : cat?logo alfab?tico de los nombres de lugar pertenecientes al idioma nahuatl ; estudio gerogl?fico de la matricula de los tributos del Codice Mendocino / Antonio Pe?afiel. Autor: Pe?afiel, Antonio, 1831-1922. Pie de imprenta: M?xico : Secretar?a de Fomento, 1885, Materia: Nombres geogr?ficos -- M?xico. / Nahua. / Escritura pict?rica mexicana. / Codex Mendocino. N?mero de control (Bibid): 34215 T?tulo: Nombres geogr?ficos ind?genas del estado de Morelos : Estudio cr?tico de varias obras de toponomateolog?a Nahua / el Lic. Cecilio A.Robelo Autor: Robelo, Cecilio Agust?n, 1839-1916. Pie de imprenta: Cuernavaca : Impr. Luis G. Miranda, 1897 Materia: Nombres geogr?ficos -- M?xico -- Morelos. / Nahua -- Gram?tica. / Nahua -- Etimolog?as -- Nombres. / Indios de M?xico -- Nombres. N?mero de control (Bibid): 18453 T?tulo: Toponimia maya-hispano-nahoa / por Cecilio A. Robelo. Autor: Robelo, Cecilio Agust?n, 1839-1916. Pie de imprenta: Curnavaca: Impr. de Jos? D. Rojas, 1902 Materia: Nombres geogr?ficos -- M?xico. / Nahua -- Etimolog?as -- Nombres. / Maya -- Etimolog?as -- Nombres. N?mero de control (Bibid): 62022 T?tulo: Vocabulario comparativo castellano y n?huatl / Cecilio A. Rabelo Autor: Rabelo, Cecilio Agust?n, 1839-1916. Pie de imprenta: Cuernavaca : Luis G. Miranda, 1888 Materia: Nahua -- Diccionarios -- Espa?ol. / Espa?ol -- Diccionarios -- Nahua. N?mero de control (Bibid): 34220 T?tulo: Vocabulario comparativo castellano y nahuatl / el Lic. Cecilio A. Robelo Autor: Robelo, Cecilio Agust?n, 1839-1916. Pie de imprenta: Cuernavaca : L.G. Miranda, 1888 Materia: Espa?ol -- Diccionarios -- Nahua. / Nahua -- Diccionarios -- Espa?ol. N?mero de control (Bibid): 18449 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx bajo la busqueda por Nahuatl Ha buscado : nahuatl Resultados desde el 1 hasta el 7 de un total de 7 encontrados. Nueva b?squeda 1 T?tulo: Diccionario de aztequismos : ? sea, cat?logo de las palabras del idioma nahuatl, azteca ? mexicano, introducidos al idioma castellano bajo diversas formas (contribuci?n al diccionario nacional) / Cecilio A. Robelo Autor: Robelo, Cecilio Agust?n, 1839-1916. Pie de imprenta: Cuernavaca : Impr. del autor, 1904 Materia: Espa?ol -- Provincialismos -- M?xico. / Espa?ol -- Palabras y frases de or?gen extranjero -- Azteca. N?mero de control (Bibid): 18397 T?tulo: Diccionario de aztequismos o sea cat?logo de las palabras del idioma nahuatl, azteca o mexicano introducidas al idioma castellano bajo diversas formas / Cecilio A. Robelo. Autor: Robelo, Cecilio Agust?n, 1839-1916. Pie de imprenta: Cuernavaca : Imprenta del Autor, 1904. Materia: Nahua -- Diccionarios -- Espa?ol. N?mero de control (Bibid): 70516 T?tulo: Ep?tome o modo f?cil de aprender el idioma nahuatl o lengua mexicana / Faustino Chimalpopoca Autor: Galicia Chimalpopoca, Faustino, m. 1877. Pie de imprenta: M?xico : Tip. de la V. de Murgu?a e hijos, Portal del Aguila de Oro, [s.a.] Materia: Nahua -- Dialectos. / Nahua -- Gram?tica. N?mero de control (Bibid): 67887 T?tulo: Glosario de voces castellanas, derivadas del idioma Nahuatl o Mexicano / Jes?s S?nchez Autor: Sanchez, Jes?s. Pie de imprenta: M?xico : Imp. de la Soc. Agricola Mexicana, 1902 Materia: Nahua. / Nahua -- Gram?tica. N?mero de control (Bibid): 71927 T?tulo: Nombres geogr?ficos de M?xico : cat?logo alfab?tico de los nombres de lugar pertenecientes al idioma nahuatl ; estudio gerogl?fico de la matricula de los tributos del Codice Mendocino / Antonio Pe?afiel. Autor: Pe?afiel, Antonio, 1831-1922. Pie de imprenta: M?xico : Secretar?a de Fomento, 1885, Materia: Nombres geogr?ficos -- M?xico. / Nahua. / Escritura pict?rica mexicana. / Codex Mendocino. N?mero de control (Bibid): 34215 T?tulo: Vocabulario comparativo castellano y n?huatl / Cecilio A. Rabelo Autor: Rabelo, Cecilio Agust?n, 1839-1916. Pie de imprenta: Cuernavaca : Luis G. Miranda, 1888 Materia: Nahua -- Diccionarios -- Espa?ol. / Espa?ol -- Diccionarios -- Nahua. N?mero de control (Bibid): 34220 T?tulo: Vocabulario comparativo castellano y nahuatl / el Lic. Cecilio A. Robelo Autor: Robelo, Cecilio Agust?n, 1839-1916. Pie de imprenta: Cuernavaca : L.G. Miranda, 1888 Materia: Espa?ol -- Diccionarios -- Nahua. / Nahua -- Diccionarios -- Espa?ol. N?mero de control (Bibid): 18449 Ha buscado : nahoa Resultados desde el 1 hasta el 3 de un total de 3 encontrados. T?tulo: Diccionario de mitolog?a nahoa / Cecilio A. Robelo. Autor: Robelo, Cecilio Agust?n, 1839-1916. Pie de imprenta: M?xico : impr. del Museo Nacional, 1905 Materia: Mitolog?a azteca -- Diccionarios. N?mero de control (Bibid): 17706 T?tulo: Sinopsis topon?mica Nahoa del Distrito Federal Autor: Robelo, Cecilio Agust?n, 1839-1916. Pie de imprenta: Cuernavaca, Mor.: Tip. y Lib. Jos? D. Rojas, 1901 Materia: Nombres geogr?ficos -- M?xico. N?mero de control (Bibid): 18811 T?tulo: Toponimia maya-hispano-nahoa / por Cecilio A. Robelo. Autor: Robelo, Cecilio Agust?n, 1839-1916. Pie de imprenta: Curnavaca: Impr. de Jos? D. Rojas, 1902 Materia: Nombres geogr?ficos -- M?xico. / Nahua -- Etimolog?as -- Nombres. / Maya -- Etimolog?as -- Nombres. N?mero de control (Bibid): 62022 Los investigadores interesados en la historia de la conquista y vida colonial de Nueva Galicia, Zacatecas, Jalisco, Nayarit, La Nueva Vizcaya, la rebelion Cazcana, la Tepehuana, la Guerra chichimeca , los Huicholes , los Coras, la arqueologia de la quemada , la independencia de M?xico , el imperio de maximiliano, la epoca santanista, etct, etc encontraran en esta biblioteca verdaderas e inapreciables joyas bibliogr?ficas muchas de ellas inconseguibles de forma f?sica como por ejemplo los textos de Frejes, Arlegui, Mota Padilla, el segundo volumen del padre Tello o la notable historia del zacatecano Elias Amador, la obra de Carlos Maria de Bustamante, etc, etc. DESEO QUE LOS FORITAS PUEDAN RECOMENDAR Y DIFUNDIR ESTE VALIOSO RECURSO QUE OFRECE LA UANL DE MEXICO ENTRE SUS COLEGAS Y ALUMNOS E IMPULSEN SE REPITA SU EJEMPLO ENTRE OTRAS UNIVERSIDADES DE MEXICO Y EL MUNDO COLOCANDO EN LA WEB FONDOS RESERVADOS PARA LA DIFUSI?N DEL SABER HUMANO Y DE FORMA LIBRE ,GRATUITA Y SIN CONDICIONES. Un saludo para todos desde la hoy muy calurosa "garganta de tierra adentro" en M?xico ROBERTO ROMERO GUTIERREZ _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: as HOT as always www.hotmailhotness.com.mx -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Thu May 6 01:49:50 2010 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Wed, 5 May 2010 21:49:50 -0400 Subject: present progressive and some ideas about it Message-ID: Hui, Tomas! Ce tepetl in titechmacac! Tel in cenca cualli ohtli. Nictotocaz. Tlaxtlahui. Michael Quoting Tomas Amaya : > Hello MIchael and Listeros > > > > In these lines I?d like to go back to present progressive and such matters > in Nahuatl. > > > > You know that many verbal terms, depending on their ending, may indicate a > intransitive or transitive action, e.g. tlapani vs. tlatlapana; polihui vs. > tlapolohua, etc. > > > > I am going to talk about the way in which the auxiliary verbal-particles ca > and oc are used by Nahuat-monolingual people and Spanish-Nahuat bilingual > people that cultivate a traditional Nahuat at home and with neighbors in the > Nahuat-speaking region of Cuetzalan, where I have a house and family. > > > > I am going to use ?TL?, though the Nahuat-pronunciation for this letter is > ?T? (with the tip of the tongue on the upper part of frontal teeth). Let?s > begin. > > > > 1. The verbal ihcuilohua. Transitive: Nitlahcuilohua (I paint/write). > Intransitive: ihcuilihui (it gets painted / it gets written; in Spanish: se > escribe / se pinta. E.g. ihcuilihui ica toezyo, in Sp.: se escribe/pinta con > sangre; in English something like: It gets painted with blood.). > > 2. If I say nitlahcuilohtoc, I?m meaning something like ?I am > painting?, but for me, a better way of expressing it, is: At the moment, I > am in the situation of someone who paints). V.g.: ahmo xinechcuehmolo, > nitlacuilohtoc! (Don?t bother me, I?m painting). > > 3. If I say nitlahcuilohtica, I?m meaning: I paint, I usually paint; v > .g.: Ce meztli ya nitlahcuilohtica (I write/paint since a month ago/ I am > writing since a month ago), i.e. since a month ago, I am in the usual state > of someone who paints. Another example: ?X tlon ticcchihua mohmoztlah?? ? > ?Nitlahcuilohtica, yn neh nitlahcuilohqui? (?What do you do every day?,? ? > ?I paint, I usually paint, I am a painter?). > > 4. If you write ihcuiliuhtoc, you have taken ihcuiliuh, the short form > of ihcuilihui, that at its turn comes from ihcuil/maybe ihcuilli. It has the > idea of ?paint, take form?, being ?ihui? the sound that brings action to the > stem (in this case an intransitive action=> ihcuilihui: it is painted/it > gets painted). Thus, ihcuiliuhtoc means: it is in the state of a paint; it > is in the state of something painted. > > 5. If you write ihcuilohtica you mean: it is (has been and maybe will > be) in the state of a paint; it is in the state of something that has been > painted ant normally will remain so. > > 6. If you say ihcuilohtoc, you take ihcuiloh, the short form of > ihcuiloa, that at its turn comes also from ihcuil/maybe ihcuilli. It has the > idea of ?paint, to fashion?, being ?ohua/oa? the sound that brings action to > the stem (in this case a transitive action => (tla)ihcuilohua, that paints > (something) ). But what is the meaning of ?ihcuilohua? without ?tla? > (object)?, it means ?after discussions with my wife, who has nahuat as > mother language? : (of) writing or (of) painting /Spanish: (de) escribir o > pintar; escrito o pintado. Then you are meaning: it is written; it has been > written; it is now in writing (Spanish: est? escrito, ha sido escrito, en > forma escrita), cfr. the use of these endings in Chimalpahin and Sahagun) > > 7. If you say ihcuilohtica, you are meaning it has been written. It is > in the situation of something that is or has been written; better said: (it > is) in writing. > > 8. So, I?ll write an example. Yn nonamic tlahcuilohtica ica > tlapohualoni, yehce yequintzin ahmo tlahcuilohtoc. Yalhua tlei za? in > nechihcuilohuilih, xiquitta: nican itech inhin amatl ihcuilohtoc: ?ahmo > nitequitiznequi oc?. Axcan ahmo neci yn nonamic. Xo quizac ohpan. > > Nican, xiquitta occe amatl in onca?. Ynhin ce iin namatl techmacacqueh ce > xihuititih ya? ne teopan, in itech ihcuilohtica: ?ahmo quemann nihuintiz?. > Huan axcan xiquitta, ax? tlahuantinemi inhuan inamigotes. > > Mmmh, Huel niquelnamiqui quenyuh quilhuih in teopixcatl: ?Itech in Biblia > ihcuiliuhtica ?amo titlayiz miec, ce copa za? quemeh totahtzin Yezuz?. > > Ahmo quinectica tlayeccaquiz. Ce meztica tlahuantiyez huan zatepan: > Tepahtihqui huan tomin. Tiquitztozqueh quenyun nochi tlamiz: quitenamacaz in > tepoztlapohualoni, garahuadora, tele, nochi. ?Cabron!. Cani yn ihcuilohtica > inic nochipa yetoz ce cihuat ihuan ihuehue mazqui mooztlah huenhuentica? > > Translation. My husband usually writes with a computer, but now he is not > witting. Yesterday he wrote something to me, just look: on this paper it is > written: ?I do not want to work any more?. Now my husband has disappeared. > Probably he went out. > > Here, you see, there is another paper. This is a paper that was given to us > a year ago in the church. Thereon it is in writing: ?I will never get drunk > again?. And now you can see, maybe he is going over there drinking with his > fellows. > > Mmmh, I remember very well what the priest said to him: On the Bible it is > written: ?you shall not drink a lot, just a cup, like our Father Jesus?. He > has not wanted to listen. He will be drinking a month along and after that: > doctor and money. We will be seeing how everything will finish: he will sell > the computer, the tape-recorder, TV, everything, Cabr?n!. Where is it > written that a woman must remain with her partner although he is drunk every > day? > > 9. One last example: Yn axno ilpi?toc = the donkey is tied; Yn axno > ilpihtoc = I have the donkey tied, the first indicates an intransitive > action, the second a transitive one. > > > > Notes: > > 1. Nahuat-speaking people of Cuetzalan Region prefer the use of oc, > instead of ca. > > 2. See an example in Sahag?n, ?Adiciones, Ap?ndice a la Postilla y > Ejercicio Cotidiano?, Ed. de J. O. Anderson, UNAM, M?xico; p. 156: ?Yn ipan > Sancto Evangelio icuiliuhtoc. ?, see also p. 184: ?Jn Sancto Euangelio ipan > ihcuiliuhto(c) tlapallotoc, tlillotoc in tlahtolli ? > > 3. En Chimalpahin: Tercera Relaci?n, III Tochtli xihuitl, 1326: ?Auh > yn Acacitli ye quitohua in yoyahue tloquehenahuaquehe ca yehuatl in ynic > nicocha yn n Acacitli yn Chapoltepec yn popoliuhtoc yn notatzin yhu?n yn > Azcatl Xochtzin yn noteyccaztzin?. My translation: ?And then the mentioned > Acachitli expresses: ahh God, I, Acacitli, I cry because it is in > Chapultepec where my father has (is) perished together with my younger > brother?; in V Tochtli xihuitl, 1510: ?Nican neztica yn iquac peuh y > hualmoquequetzaya yn ilhuicatitech yn tlanextli yn iuhqui mixpanitl auh > nohuian ohuallitoc yn cemanahuac yn techyahuallotoc nohuian onetetzahuilloc > y tlanextli yn hualmoquequetzaya. My translation: ?Hier it is expressed > about the time when (addressing to us) a light rose on the sky in the form > of a cloud-display that was seen in the whole country around. This light has > surrounded us everywhere as it was rising. > > 4. A last comment about ihcuil, the stem of verbal-forms ihcuilihui > and ihcuilohua. Maybe, I say maybe, it comes from iuhcui, i. e. take form. > It is the same idea of build in English and bilden in German. This way, > ihcuilohua may mean to give form to something (someone). Remember that > there is a poem (translated by Leon Portilla, where it is written: > ?Techihcuilohua in ipalnemohuani? = God write us, i.e. God fashions us. > German: Uns gestalt Gott. Spanisch: nos pinta el Dador de la Vida. > > > > Dear Listeros, I think I have written too much. Maybe I have gone too far. > > > > Timottazque occepa. Hasta la pr?xima. > > > > Tomas Amaya. > > > > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Thu May 6 03:33:25 2010 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Wed, 5 May 2010 23:33:25 -0400 Subject: modern terms Message-ID: Listerotzitzin?, Susana sent me this about a month ago, and I just got around to looking at it. It contains names of modern items I'm not familiar with. Could someone chime in and offer some feedback for her terms. Some of you who work with modern dialects may have some good things to offer. Tlazohcamati. Michael ----- Forwarded message from susana at losrancheros.org ----- Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 17:04:51 +0200 From: Susana Moraleda Reply-To: Susana Moraleda Subject: Re: [Nahuat-l] adjectives To: Michael McCafferty table/desk - ACOPECHTLI pencil - TECONALLI copybook (cahier) - AMAMACHIOTL eraser - TETLAIXPOLHUIANI exercise (like one for a Nahuatl lesson) - ?? page - AMAIZHUATL Thanks again. Susana ----- End forwarded message ----- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From t_amaya at megared.net.mx Wed May 5 22:50:45 2010 From: t_amaya at megared.net.mx (Tomas Amaya) Date: Wed, 5 May 2010 17:50:45 -0500 Subject: present progressive and some ideas about it Message-ID: Hello MIchael and Listeros In these lines I?d like to go back to present progressive and such matters in Nahuatl. You know that many verbal terms, depending on their ending, may indicate a intransitive or transitive action, e.g. tlapani vs. tlatlapana; polihui vs. tlapolohua, etc. I am going to talk about the way in which the auxiliary verbal-particles ca and oc are used by Nahuat-monolingual people and Spanish-Nahuat bilingual people that cultivate a traditional Nahuat at home and with neighbors in the Nahuat-speaking region of Cuetzalan, where I have a house and family. I am going to use ?TL?, though the Nahuat-pronunciation for this letter is ?T? (with the tip of the tongue on the upper part of frontal teeth). Let?s begin. 1. The verbal ihcuilohua. Transitive: Nitlahcuilohua (I paint/write). Intransitive: ihcuilihui (it gets painted / it gets written; in Spanish: se escribe / se pinta. E.g. ihcuilihui ica toezyo, in Sp.: se escribe/pinta con sangre; in English something like: It gets painted with blood.). 2. If I say nitlahcuilohtoc, I?m meaning something like ?I am painting?, but for me, a better way of expressing it, is: At the moment, I am in the situation of someone who paints). V.g.: ahmo xinechcuehmolo, nitlacuilohtoc! (Don?t bother me, I?m painting). 3. If I say nitlahcuilohtica, I?m meaning: I paint, I usually paint; v .g.: Ce meztli ya nitlahcuilohtica (I write/paint since a month ago/ I am writing since a month ago), i.e. since a month ago, I am in the usual state of someone who paints. Another example: ?X tlon ticcchihua mohmoztlah?? ? ?Nitlahcuilohtica, yn neh nitlahcuilohqui? (?What do you do every day?,? ? ?I paint, I usually paint, I am a painter?). 4. If you write ihcuiliuhtoc, you have taken ihcuiliuh, the short form of ihcuilihui, that at its turn comes from ihcuil/maybe ihcuilli. It has the idea of ?paint, take form?, being ?ihui? the sound that brings action to the stem (in this case an intransitive action=> ihcuilihui: it is painted/it gets painted). Thus, ihcuiliuhtoc means: it is in the state of a paint; it is in the state of something painted. 5. If you write ihcuilohtica you mean: it is (has been and maybe will be) in the state of a paint; it is in the state of something that has been painted ant normally will remain so. 6. If you say ihcuilohtoc, you take ihcuiloh, the short form of ihcuiloa, that at its turn comes also from ihcuil/maybe ihcuilli. It has the idea of ?paint, to fashion?, being ?ohua/oa? the sound that brings action to the stem (in this case a transitive action => (tla)ihcuilohua, that paints (something) ). But what is the meaning of ?ihcuilohua? without ?tla? (object)?, it means ?after discussions with my wife, who has nahuat as mother language? : (of) writing or (of) painting /Spanish: (de) escribir o pintar; escrito o pintado. Then you are meaning: it is written; it has been written; it is now in writing (Spanish: est? escrito, ha sido escrito, en forma escrita), cfr. the use of these endings in Chimalpahin and Sahagun) 7. If you say ihcuilohtica, you are meaning it has been written. It is in the situation of something that is or has been written; better said: (it is) in writing. 8. So, I?ll write an example. Yn nonamic tlahcuilohtica ica tlapohualoni, yehce yequintzin ahmo tlahcuilohtoc. Yalhua tlei za? in nechihcuilohuilih, xiquitta: nican itech inhin amatl ihcuilohtoc: ?ahmo nitequitiznequi oc?. Axcan ahmo neci yn nonamic. Xo quizac ohpan. Nican, xiquitta occe amatl in onca?. Ynhin ce iin namatl techmacacqueh ce xihuititih ya? ne teopan, in itech ihcuilohtica: ?ahmo quemann nihuintiz?. Huan axcan xiquitta, ax? tlahuantinemi inhuan inamigotes. Mmmh, Huel niquelnamiqui quenyuh quilhuih in teopixcatl: ?Itech in Biblia ihcuiliuhtica ?amo titlayiz miec, ce copa za? quemeh totahtzin Yezuz?. Ahmo quinectica tlayeccaquiz. Ce meztica tlahuantiyez huan zatepan: Tepahtihqui huan tomin. Tiquitztozqueh quenyun nochi tlamiz: quitenamacaz in tepoztlapohualoni, garahuadora, tele, nochi. ?Cabron!. Cani yn ihcuilohtica inic nochipa yetoz ce cihuat ihuan ihuehue mazqui mooztlah huenhuentica? Translation. My husband usually writes with a computer, but now he is not witting. Yesterday he wrote something to me, just look: on this paper it is written: ?I do not want to work any more?. Now my husband has disappeared. Probably he went out. Here, you see, there is another paper. This is a paper that was given to us a year ago in the church. Thereon it is in writing: ?I will never get drunk again?. And now you can see, maybe he is going over there drinking with his fellows. Mmmh, I remember very well what the priest said to him: On the Bible it is written: ?you shall not drink a lot, just a cup, like our Father Jesus?. He has not wanted to listen. He will be drinking a month along and after that: doctor and money. We will be seeing how everything will finish: he will sell the computer, the tape-recorder, TV, everything, Cabr?n!. Where is it written that a woman must remain with her partner although he is drunk every day? 9. One last example: Yn axno ilpi?toc = the donkey is tied; Yn axno ilpihtoc = I have the donkey tied, the first indicates an intransitive action, the second a transitive one. Notes: 1. Nahuat-speaking people of Cuetzalan Region prefer the use of oc, instead of ca. 2. See an example in Sahag?n, ?Adiciones, Ap?ndice a la Postilla y Ejercicio Cotidiano?, Ed. de J. O. Anderson, UNAM, M?xico; p. 156: ?Yn ipan Sancto Evangelio icuiliuhtoc. ?, see also p. 184: ?Jn Sancto Euangelio ipan ihcuiliuhto(c) tlapallotoc, tlillotoc in tlahtolli ? 3. En Chimalpahin: Tercera Relaci?n, III Tochtli xihuitl, 1326: ?Auh yn Acacitli ye quitohua in yoyahue tloquehenahuaquehe ca yehuatl in ynic nicocha yn n Acacitli yn Chapoltepec yn popoliuhtoc yn notatzin yhu?n yn Azcatl Xochtzin yn noteyccaztzin?. My translation: ?And then the mentioned Acachitli expresses: ahh God, I, Acacitli, I cry because it is in Chapultepec where my father has (is) perished together with my younger brother?; in V Tochtli xihuitl, 1510: ?Nican neztica yn iquac peuh y hualmoquequetzaya yn ilhuicatitech yn tlanextli yn iuhqui mixpanitl auh nohuian ohuallitoc yn cemanahuac yn techyahuallotoc nohuian onetetzahuilloc y tlanextli yn hualmoquequetzaya. My translation: ?Hier it is expressed about the time when (addressing to us) a light rose on the sky in the form of a cloud-display that was seen in the whole country around. This light has surrounded us everywhere as it was rising. 4. A last comment about ihcuil, the stem of verbal-forms ihcuilihui and ihcuilohua. Maybe, I say maybe, it comes from iuhcui, i. e. take form. It is the same idea of build in English and bilden in German. This way, ihcuilohua may mean to give form to something (someone). Remember that there is a poem (translated by Leon Portilla, where it is written: ?Techihcuilohua in ipalnemohuani? = God write us, i.e. God fashions us. German: Uns gestalt Gott. Spanisch: nos pinta el Dador de la Vida. Dear Listeros, I think I have written too much. Maybe I have gone too far. Timottazque occepa. Hasta la pr?xima. Tomas Amaya. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From idiez at me.com Thu May 6 13:46:05 2010 From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan, Ph.D.) Date: Thu, 6 May 2010 08:46:05 -0500 Subject: applicative a>i Message-ID: Listeros, I was taught that when transitive verbs ending in -a take the applicative suffix -lia, that final -a of the verb root changes to -i. The more I look at it, the more it seems that what is actually happening is that the transitive form reverts to the intransitive form, ending in -i (which in many cases is not used by itself) before adding the applicative suffix. The following examples are from modern Huastecan Nahuatl. 1. cahui ("to become loose", only attested in mahcauhtoc, "it/they are loose) > cahua, "to leave s.t." > cahuilia, "to leave s.t. for s.o.) 2. tzacui ("to become closed", only attested in tzauctoc, "it is closed") > tzacua, to close/enclose s.t." > tzacuilia, "to get in s.o.?s way" or "to prop s.t. up") 3. temi, "for s.t. to fill or swell" > tema, "to empty things out (into a container)" > temilia, "to fill s.t. up" John John Sullivan, Ph.D. Professor of Nahua language and culture Universidad Aut?noma de Zacatecas Zacatecas Institute of Teaching and Research in Ethnology Tacuba 152, int. 43 Centro Hist?rico Zacatecas, Zac. 98000 Mexico Work: +52 (492) 925-3415 Fax: +1 (858) 724-3030 (U.S.A.) Home: +52 (492) 768-6048 Mobile: +52 1 (492) 103-0195 idiez at me.com www.macehualli.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Thu May 6 19:37:46 2010 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Thu, 6 May 2010 15:37:46 -0400 Subject: applicative a>i In-Reply-To: <4865FBAA-0A5A-48EE-9CB6-F151F2EEC4C0@me.com> Message-ID: Hi, John, The thing is, you don't get, for example, *piyilia:, piyalia. And long /a:/ certainly doesn't change: ma:ma:lia:, not *ma:mi:lia: But, sure, cho:ca, zaca, chi:hua, mo:tla, quetza... I've always thought the changes you talk about were examples of /a/ assimilating to the /i/ of /-lia:/. I hope that Joe is around and can chime in. Thanks for the thoughts, Michael Quoting "John Sullivan, Ph.D." : > Listeros, > I was taught that when transitive verbs ending in -a take the > applicative suffix -lia, that final -a of the verb root changes to > -i. The more I look at it, the more it seems that what is actually > happening is that the transitive form reverts to the intransitive > form, ending in -i (which in many cases is not used by itself) before > adding the applicative suffix. The following examples are from modern > Huastecan Nahuatl. > 1. cahui ("to become loose", only attested in mahcauhtoc, "it/they > are loose) > cahua, "to leave s.t." > cahuilia, "to leave s.t. for > s.o.) > 2. tzacui ("to become closed", only attested in tzauctoc, "it is > closed") > tzacua, to close/enclose s.t." > tzacuilia, "to get in > s.o.?s way" or "to prop s.t. up") > 3. temi, "for s.t. to fill or swell" > tema, "to empty things out > (into a container)" > temilia, "to fill s.t. up" > John > > John Sullivan, Ph.D. > Professor of Nahua language and culture > Universidad Aut?noma de Zacatecas > Zacatecas Institute of Teaching and Research in Ethnology > Tacuba 152, int. 43 > Centro Hist?rico > Zacatecas, Zac. 98000 > Mexico > Work: +52 (492) 925-3415 > Fax: +1 (858) 724-3030 (U.S.A.) > Home: +52 (492) 768-6048 > Mobile: +52 1 (492) 103-0195 > idiez at me.com > www.macehualli.org > > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From idiez at me.com Thu May 6 20:34:37 2010 From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan, Ph.D.) Date: Thu, 6 May 2010 15:34:37 -0500 Subject: applicative without apostrophes Message-ID: Listeros, It looks like someone in cyberspace doesnt like apostrophes, so here is my post minus them. Hi Michael, You picked strange verbs for the objections. "Piya" is a special case because it is probably made of the older verb "pi", "to pull at s.t." and the durative "ya", so its actually a compound root. In modern Huastecan Nahuatl there is only one class 4 verb that has a regular applicative form: "nahua", "to carry s.o. or s.t. in ones arms" goes to "nahuilia", "to carry s.o. elses baby in ones arms". "Mama" and "pa" dont have applicative forms, and "cua" has a very strange "cualilia", "to eat s.o. elses food". John _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Thu May 6 20:36:05 2010 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Thu, 6 May 2010 16:36:05 -0400 Subject: applicative a>i In-Reply-To: <83CC90B3-5EEB-4C7A-A43B-36DE6F5B4DAF@me.com> Message-ID: Quoting "John Sullivan, Ph.D." : > Hi Michael, > You picked strange verbs for the objections. > "Piya" is a special case because it is probably made of the older > verb "pi", "to pull at s.t." and the durative "ya", so it?s actually > a compound root. > In modern Huasteca Nahuatl there is only one class 4 verb that has a > regular applicative form: "nahua", "to carry s.o. or s.t. in one?s > arms" goes to "nahuilia", "to carry s.o. else?s baby in one?s arms". > "mama" and "pa" don?t have applicative forms, and "cua" has a very > strange "cualilia", "to eat s.o. else?s food". > John cualilia looks like a reduplication of the applicative suffix -li(a). Best, Michael > > On May 6, 2010, at 2:37 PM, Michael McCafferty wrote: > >> Hi, John, >> >> The thing is, you don't get, for example, *piyilia:, piyalia. And long >> /a:/ certainly doesn't change: ma:ma:lia:, not *ma:mi:lia: >> >> But, sure, cho:ca, zaca, chi:hua, mo:tla, quetza... >> >> I've always thought the changes you talk about were examples of /a/ >> assimilating to the /i/ of /-lia:/. >> >> I hope that Joe is around and can chime in. >> >> Thanks for the thoughts, >> >> Michael >> >> >> >> >> >> Quoting "John Sullivan, Ph.D." : >> >>> Listeros, >>> I was taught that when transitive verbs ending in -a take the >>> applicative suffix -lia, that final -a of the verb root changes to >>> -i. The more I look at it, the more it seems that what is actually >>> happening is that the transitive form reverts to the intransitive >>> form, ending in -i (which in many cases is not used by itself) before >>> adding the applicative suffix. The following examples are from modern >>> Huastecan Nahuatl. >>> 1. cahui ("to become loose", only attested in mahcauhtoc, "it/they >>> are loose) > cahua, "to leave s.t." > cahuilia, "to leave s.t. for >>> s.o.) >>> 2. tzacui ("to become closed", only attested in tzauctoc, "it is >>> closed") > tzacua, to close/enclose s.t." > tzacuilia, "to get in >>> s.o.?s way" or "to prop s.t. up") >>> 3. temi, "for s.t. to fill or swell" > tema, "to empty things out >>> (into a container)" > temilia, "to fill s.t. up" >>> John >>> >>> John Sullivan, Ph.D. >>> Professor of Nahua language and culture >>> Universidad Aut?noma de Zacatecas >>> Zacatecas Institute of Teaching and Research in Ethnology >>> Tacuba 152, int. 43 >>> Centro Hist?rico >>> Zacatecas, Zac. 98000 >>> Mexico >>> Work: +52 (492) 925-3415 >>> Fax: +1 (858) 724-3030 (U.S.A.) >>> Home: +52 (492) 768-6048 >>> Mobile: +52 1 (492) 103-0195 >>> idiez at me.com >>> www.macehualli.org >>> >>> >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From lahunik.62 at skynet.be Thu May 6 22:00:27 2010 From: lahunik.62 at skynet.be (lahunik.62 at skynet.be) Date: Fri, 7 May 2010 00:00:27 +0200 Subject: Modern terms Message-ID: Modern terms? * Acopechtli or ahcopechtli: Ahco=locatif, above. Pechtli=sleeping mat (petate). Tlapechtli=bed. Acopechtli=above the bed? * Teconalli: Coal. Esp.carbon (Mol.) Tecolli, piece of coal. * Amamachiotl or amamachiyotl: Paper pattern. Comp.morphol. on amatl and machiyotl. Amatl=paper, book. Machiyotl=pattern, exemple. Amatlazontli=cahier. Amoxtli=book. * Tetlaixpolhuiani Possible form of the verb tetlaixpolhuia. He would destroy something which belong to someone. Esp.borrar estropear una cosa a alquien. Composition on polhuia and ixpoloa. Ixpoloa=to destroy. Polhuia=to lose something for someone. Esp.perder cosa agena. * Amaizhuatl. Composition on amatl and izhuatl. Amatl=paper. Izhuatl=leaf, husk of the maize. Amaizhuatl=paperleaf? * Tequitl=a work, a task, an exercise. Lahun Ik 62 Baert Georges Flanders Fields -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From tezozomoc at hotmail.com Fri May 7 19:45:17 2010 From: tezozomoc at hotmail.com (Mr. Tezozomoc) Date: Fri, 7 May 2010 12:45:17 -0700 Subject: Oldest pressurized water system in New World is found in Mexico Message-ID: http://www.therepublic.com/view/story/SCI-MAYA-WATER_2316589/SCI-MAYA-WATER_2316589/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From lahunik.62 at skynet.be Sun May 9 23:48:13 2010 From: lahunik.62 at skynet.be (lahunik.62 at skynet.be) Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 01:48:13 +0200 Subject: Ancient indigenous Mesoamerican and Andean music Message-ID: Dear listeros, I'm searching for ancient indigenous Mesoamerican and Andean music. I know of Jaramar Sosa who has spent her musical career performing in ancient indigenous languages such as Zapotec and Quecha. But I don't know if there allready exist something of her on cd. She was planning a full album with songs in the Purapecha language. Binni Gulaza, a vocal and guitar trio, which played "sones istmenos", the traditional music of the Zapotec Indians which live in Oaxaca. Zapotec guitarists and composers are seemingly well known throughout Mexico. Some of the country's most popular love songs are from the sones istmenos tradition. In the last hundred years brassbands have been largerly replacing string bands, with the result that many lyrics, noted for their masterful command of the Zapotec language, have been lost. I'm also searching for the roots of contemporary Andean music, which go back before and during the Incan Empire. Music with the zamponas, the pan pipe, and the charango, the double stringed mandolin, made of the shell of an armadillo. The shrill mournful sound of the pipes seems to touch something deep in the human soul, and is a perfect complement to the rich tones of the charango. Stringed instruments seemed unknown before the Spanish Conquest. But accounts from the time of the Conquest praised the hypnotic and smoothing effects of the music. I'm aware of Jorge Milchberg y Los Incas, who achieved fame with his album El Condor Pasa. I'm in the possession of the song "Tema de Maimara" from the album Alegria, that seems to succeed in evoking the beauty of the Andes themselves. Ollantay of Expression, which is based on Incan ceremonial forms called Yaravi and Huayno, and tells the story of General Ollantay. This track should be from the band's second album Wasichakuy, which is a Quecha Indian word that means "to build your own house", as well as the circle of light that surrounds the Sun and the Moon. Wasichakuy is seemingly a strong united energy by which one could overcome any obstacle, and in the Incan soul it encouraged faith and radiated an aura of positive energy. Lahun Ik 62 Baert Georges Flanders Fields -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From idiez at me.com Wed May 12 12:22:49 2010 From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan, Ph.D.) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 07:22:49 -0500 Subject: Foundation grammar Message-ID: Piyali listeros, Who is handling distribution of the Campbell/Karttunen Foundation grammar now? John John Sullivan, Ph.D. Professor of Nahua language and culture Universidad Aut?noma de Zacatecas Zacatecas Institute of Teaching and Research in Ethnology Tacuba 152, int. 43 Centro Hist?rico Zacatecas, Zac. 98000 Mexico Work: +52 (492) 925-3415 Fax: +1 (858) 724-3030 (U.S.A.) Home: +52 (492) 768-6048 Mobile: +52 1 (492) 103-0195 idiez at me.com www.macehualli.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From b.leeming at rivers.org Wed May 12 14:07:05 2010 From: b.leeming at rivers.org (Leeming, Ben) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 10:07:05 -0400 Subject: mohottah Message-ID: Piyali listeros, Can anyone explain to me the process by which mo+(i)ttah (they look at each other, see themselves) becomes mohottah? On p. 90 of Andrews' Workbook (1975 ed.), Ex. 38A, no. 3 he writes: Nepanotl mohottah, and then on p. 195 gives the translation "They are staring at one another mutually; i.e., They are staring at one another." On p. 445 of the text, in the Vocabulary under (iTTA) he has "MO-(iTTA) = to look at oneself, to see oneself." This is close to but not identical with mohottah. I have this sinking feeling that it's something really obvious, but for whatever reason I can't account for that first h!! Thank you! Ben Ben Leeming Chair, History Department The Rivers School Weston, MA 02493 (781) 235-9300 ________________________________ Sample disclaimer text -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From schwallr at potsdam.edu Wed May 12 14:31:58 2010 From: schwallr at potsdam.edu (John F. Schwaller) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 10:31:58 -0400 Subject: Foundation grammar In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I am. You can find the info here: http://www.nahuatl.org/hotlinks On 5/12/2010 8:22 AM, John Sullivan, Ph.D. wrote: > Piyali listeros, > Who is handling distribution of the Campbell/Karttunen Foundation > grammar now? > John > > John Sullivan, Ph.D. > > Professor of Nahua language and culture > > Universidad Aut?noma de Zacatecas > > Zacatecas Institute of Teaching and Research in Ethnology > > Tacuba 152, int. 43 > > Centro Hist?rico > > Zacatecas, Zac. 98000 > > Mexico > > Work: +52 (492) 925-3415 > > Fax: +1 (858) 724-3030 (U.S.A.) > > Home: +52 (492) 768-6048 > > Mobile: +52 1 (492) 103-0195 > > idiez at me.com > > www.macehualli.org > > > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > -- ***************************** John F. Schwaller President SUNY - Potsdam 44 Pierrepont Ave. Potsdam, NY 13676 Tel. 315-267-2100 FAX 315-267-2496 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From schwallr at potsdam.edu Wed May 12 14:52:22 2010 From: schwallr at potsdam.edu (John F. Schwaller) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 10:52:22 -0400 Subject: Foundation grammar - CORRECTION In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Here is the correct link for info on the Grammar: http://www2.potsdam.edu/schwaljf/Nahuatl/hotlinks.htm On 5/12/2010 8:22 AM, John Sullivan, Ph.D. wrote: > Piyali listeros, > Who is handling distribution of the Campbell/Karttunen Foundation > grammar now? > John > > John Sullivan, Ph.D. > > Professor of Nahua language and culture > > Universidad Aut?noma de Zacatecas > > Zacatecas Institute of Teaching and Research in Ethnology > > Tacuba 152, int. 43 > > Centro Hist?rico > > Zacatecas, Zac. 98000 > > Mexico > > Work: +52 (492) 925-3415 > > Fax: +1 (858) 724-3030 (U.S.A.) > > Home: +52 (492) 768-6048 > > Mobile: +52 1 (492) 103-0195 > > idiez at me.com > > www.macehualli.org > > > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > -- ***************************** John F. Schwaller President SUNY - Potsdam 44 Pierrepont Ave. Potsdam, NY 13676 Tel. 315-267-2100 FAX 315-267-2496 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From idiez at me.com Wed May 12 16:33:11 2010 From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan, Ph.D.) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 11:33:11 -0500 Subject: mohottah In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Piyali Ben, You know that when mo- and itta come together, the o wins out over the i because although both are short, the o is stronger than the i. So we get motta, which you will see all the time in texts. Now, when it comes time to reduplicate, you reduplicate the new word, motta, which is now understood to be m-otta, and you get m-ohotta. This kind of re-analyzed reduplication happens in the Huasteca too. So: 1. ahci, nic. to touch s.o. or s.t. 2. aahci, nic. to touch s.t. after all 3. Carlos quiaahci. Carlos touches it after all 4. Nicacahci. I touch it after all. John On May 12, 2010, at 9:07 AM, Leeming, Ben wrote: > Piyali listeros, > > Can anyone explain to me the process by which mo+(i)ttah (they look at each other, see themselves) becomes mohottah? > > On p. 90 of Andrews? Workbook (1975 ed.), Ex. 38A, no. 3 he writes: Nepanotl mohottah, and then on p. 195 gives the translation ?They are staring at one another mutually; i.e., They are staring at one another.? On p. 445 of the text, in the Vocabulary under (iTTA) he has ?MO-(iTTA) = to look at oneself, to see oneself.? This is close to but not identical with mohottah. > > I have this sinking feeling that it?s something really obvious, but for whatever reason I can?t account for that first h!! > > Thank you! > > Ben > > Ben Leeming > Chair, History Department > The Rivers School > Weston, MA 02493 > (781) 235-9300 > > Sample disclaimer text > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Wed May 12 17:05:32 2010 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 13:05:32 -0400 Subject: mohottah In-Reply-To: <9925AF60-B98F-40DA-97F5-08FE05CB43C6@me.com> Message-ID: Ben, As you known, in Nahuatl, the reduplicated, or frequentive, verb prefixes generally take these forms: 1) consonant + short vowel titlacuacua: 2) consonant + long vowel ancho:cho:ca 3) consonant + vowel + glottal stop pahpa:qui Number three is what is going on here, but, as John explains, the /o/ of motta is the only element that undergoes reduplication, from /o/ to /o/ + glottal stop, here represented by orthographic "h". Michael Quoting "John Sullivan, Ph.D." : > Piyali Ben, > You know that when mo- and itta come together, the o wins out over > the i because although both are short, the o is stronger than the i. > So we get motta, which you will see all the time in texts. Now, when > it comes time to reduplicate, you reduplicate the new word, motta, > which is now understood to be m-otta, and you get m-ohotta. > This kind of re-analyzed reduplication happens in the Huasteca too. So: > 1. ahci, nic. to touch s.o. or s.t. > 2. aahci, nic. to touch s.t. after all > 3. Carlos quiaahci. Carlos touches it after all > 4. Nicacahci. I touch it after all. > John > > On May 12, 2010, at 9:07 AM, Leeming, Ben wrote: > >> Piyali listeros, >> >> Can anyone explain to me the process by which mo+(i)ttah (they look >> at each other, see themselves) becomes mohottah? >> >> On p. 90 of Andrews? Workbook (1975 ed.), Ex. 38A, no. 3 he writes: >> Nepanotl mohottah, and then on p. 195 gives the translation ?They >> are staring at one another mutually; i.e., They are staring at one >> another.? On p. 445 of the text, in the Vocabulary under (iTTA) he >> has ?MO-(iTTA) = to look at oneself, to see oneself.? This is close >> to but not identical with mohottah. >> >> I have this sinking feeling that it?s something really obvious, but >> for whatever reason I can?t account for that first h!! >> >> Thank you! >> >> Ben >> >> Ben Leeming >> Chair, History Department >> The Rivers School >> Weston, MA 02493 >> (781) 235-9300 >> >> Sample disclaimer text >> _______________________________________________ >> Nahuatl mailing list >> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org >> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Wed May 12 17:06:46 2010 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 13:06:46 -0400 Subject: mohottah In-Reply-To: <9925AF60-B98F-40DA-97F5-08FE05CB43C6@me.com> Message-ID: Quoting "John Sullivan, Ph.D." : > Piyali Ben, > You know that when mo- and itta come together, the o wins out over > the i because although both are short, the o is stronger than the i. > So we get motta, which you will see all the time in texts. Now, when > it comes time to reduplicate, you reduplicate the new word, motta, > which is now understood to be m-otta, and you get m-ohotta. > This kind of re-analyzed reduplication happens in the Huasteca too. So: > 1. ahci, nic. to touch s.o. or s.t. > 2. aahci, nic. to touch s.t. after all > 3. Carlos quiaahci. Carlos touches it after all > 4. Nicacahci. I touch it after all. > John John: I'm wondering about number 4. I don't get the second -c-. Michael > > On May 12, 2010, at 9:07 AM, Leeming, Ben wrote: > >> Piyali listeros, >> >> Can anyone explain to me the process by which mo+(i)ttah (they look >> at each other, see themselves) becomes mohottah? >> >> On p. 90 of Andrews? Workbook (1975 ed.), Ex. 38A, no. 3 he writes: >> Nepanotl mohottah, and then on p. 195 gives the translation ?They >> are staring at one another mutually; i.e., They are staring at one >> another.? On p. 445 of the text, in the Vocabulary under (iTTA) he >> has ?MO-(iTTA) = to look at oneself, to see oneself.? This is close >> to but not identical with mohottah. >> >> I have this sinking feeling that it?s something really obvious, but >> for whatever reason I can?t account for that first h!! >> >> Thank you! >> >> Ben >> >> Ben Leeming >> Chair, History Department >> The Rivers School >> Weston, MA 02493 >> (781) 235-9300 >> >> Sample disclaimer text >> _______________________________________________ >> Nahuatl mailing list >> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org >> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From idiez at me.com Wed May 12 19:29:38 2010 From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan, Ph.D.) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 14:29:38 -0500 Subject: mohottah In-Reply-To: <20100512130646.8lbnyuz5kwcsk48s@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: Michael, If I want to reduplicate the stem of quiahci, the first syllable that contains elements of the stem is ah, so the a is reduplicated. If I want to reduplicate the stem of nicahci, the first syllable containing elements of the stem is cah, right? So in this case the ca is reduplicated. This only happens with transitive verbs whose stem begins in a vowel, and when the subject is ni or ti (hence, the initial sequence nic or tic). Cool, huh? John On May 12, 2010, at 12:06 PM, Michael McCafferty wrote: > Quoting "John Sullivan, Ph.D." : > >> Piyali Ben, >> You know that when mo- and itta come together, the o wins out over >> the i because although both are short, the o is stronger than the i. >> So we get motta, which you will see all the time in texts. Now, when >> it comes time to reduplicate, you reduplicate the new word, motta, >> which is now understood to be m-otta, and you get m-ohotta. >> This kind of re-analyzed reduplication happens in the Huasteca too. So: >> 1. ahci, nic. to touch s.o. or s.t. >> 2. aahci, nic. to touch s.t. after all >> 3. Carlos quiaahci. Carlos touches it after all >> 4. Nicacahci. I touch it after all. >> John > > > John: > > I'm wondering about number 4. I don't get the second -c-. > > Michael > > >> >> On May 12, 2010, at 9:07 AM, Leeming, Ben wrote: >> >>> Piyali listeros, >>> >>> Can anyone explain to me the process by which mo+(i)ttah (they look >>> at each other, see themselves) becomes mohottah? >>> >>> On p. 90 of Andrews? Workbook (1975 ed.), Ex. 38A, no. 3 he writes: >>> Nepanotl mohottah, and then on p. 195 gives the translation ?They >>> are staring at one another mutually; i.e., They are staring at one >>> another.? On p. 445 of the text, in the Vocabulary under (iTTA) he >>> has ?MO-(iTTA) = to look at oneself, to see oneself.? This is close >>> to but not identical with mohottah. >>> >>> I have this sinking feeling that it?s something really obvious, but >>> for whatever reason I can?t account for that first h!! >>> >>> Thank you! >>> >>> Ben >>> >>> Ben Leeming >>> Chair, History Department >>> The Rivers School >>> Weston, MA 02493 >>> (781) 235-9300 >>> >>> Sample disclaimer text >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Nahuatl mailing list >>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org >>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl >> >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Wed May 12 22:59:52 2010 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 18:59:52 -0400 Subject: mohottah In-Reply-To: <982E8B1E-FFB6-4F8B-A9D1-7B674E370E56@me.com> Message-ID: Hi, John, You know, my first (gut?) feeling about this was that that -c- was epenthetic, not resulting from reduplication. Yes, this is cool, and...strange. */ni-k-aa?si/ -> /ni-ka-k-a?si/ Michael Quoting "John Sullivan, Ph.D." : > Michael, > If I want to reduplicate the stem of quiahci, the first syllable > that contains elements of the stem is ah, so the a is reduplicated. > If I want to reduplicate the stem of nicahci, the first syllable > containing elements of the stem is cah, right? So in this case the ca > is reduplicated. This only happens with transitive verbs whose stem > begins in a vowel, and when the subject is ni or ti (hence, the > initial sequence nic or tic). Cool, huh? > John > > On May 12, 2010, at 12:06 PM, Michael McCafferty wrote: > >> Quoting "John Sullivan, Ph.D." : >> >>> Piyali Ben, >>> You know that when mo- and itta come together, the o wins out over >>> the i because although both are short, the o is stronger than the i. >>> So we get motta, which you will see all the time in texts. Now, when >>> it comes time to reduplicate, you reduplicate the new word, motta, >>> which is now understood to be m-otta, and you get m-ohotta. >>> This kind of re-analyzed reduplication happens in the Huasteca too. So: >>> 1. ahci, nic. to touch s.o. or s.t. >>> 2. aahci, nic. to touch s.t. after all >>> 3. Carlos quiaahci. Carlos touches it after all >>> 4. Nicacahci. I touch it after all. >>> John >> >> >> John: >> >> I'm wondering about number 4. I don't get the second -c-. >> >> Michael >> >> >>> >>> On May 12, 2010, at 9:07 AM, Leeming, Ben wrote: >>> >>>> Piyali listeros, >>>> >>>> Can anyone explain to me the process by which mo+(i)ttah (they look >>>> at each other, see themselves) becomes mohottah? >>>> >>>> On p. 90 of Andrews? Workbook (1975 ed.), Ex. 38A, no. 3 he writes: >>>> Nepanotl mohottah, and then on p. 195 gives the translation ?They >>>> are staring at one another mutually; i.e., They are staring at one >>>> another.? On p. 445 of the text, in the Vocabulary under (iTTA) he >>>> has ?MO-(iTTA) = to look at oneself, to see oneself.? This is close >>>> to but not identical with mohottah. >>>> >>>> I have this sinking feeling that it?s something really obvious, but >>>> for whatever reason I can?t account for that first h!! >>>> >>>> Thank you! >>>> >>>> Ben >>>> >>>> Ben Leeming >>>> Chair, History Department >>>> The Rivers School >>>> Weston, MA 02493 >>>> (781) 235-9300 >>>> >>>> Sample disclaimer text >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Nahuatl mailing list >>>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org >>>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl >>> >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Nahuatl mailing list >> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org >> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From idiez at me.com Wed May 12 23:59:38 2010 From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan, Ph.D.) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 18:59:38 -0500 Subject: mohottah In-Reply-To: <42D7CD5D-D331-4F39-8298-A7C27B76810C@nantucket.net> Message-ID: Fran and all, I should have explained that this is a case of long vowel reduplication. John On May 12, 2010, at 6:28 PM, Frances Karttunen wrote: > It's not the way I would expect it to work either. In my experience, the reduplicated form of ahci is ahahci, without the object prefix c- getting involved in the reduplicative process. > > Must be a regional thing. > > Fran > > > On May 12, 2010, at 6:59 PM, Michael McCafferty wrote: > >> Hi, John, >> >> You know, my first (gut?) feeling about this was that that -c- was >> epenthetic, not resulting from reduplication. >> >> Yes, this is cool, and...strange. >> >> */ni-k-aa?si/ -> /ni-ka-k-a?si/ >> >> Michael >> >> Quoting "John Sullivan, Ph.D." : >> >>> Michael, >>> If I want to reduplicate the stem of quiahci, the first syllable >>> that contains elements of the stem is ah, so the a is reduplicated. >>> If I want to reduplicate the stem of nicahci, the first syllable >>> containing elements of the stem is cah, right? So in this case the ca >>> is reduplicated. This only happens with transitive verbs whose stem >>> begins in a vowel, and when the subject is ni or ti (hence, the >>> initial sequence nic or tic). Cool, huh? >>> John >>> >>> On May 12, 2010, at 12:06 PM, Michael McCafferty wrote: >>> >>>> Quoting "John Sullivan, Ph.D." : >>>> >>>>> Piyali Ben, >>>>> You know that when mo- and itta come together, the o wins out over >>>>> the i because although both are short, the o is stronger than the i. >>>>> So we get motta, which you will see all the time in texts. Now, when >>>>> it comes time to reduplicate, you reduplicate the new word, motta, >>>>> which is now understood to be m-otta, and you get m-ohotta. >>>>> This kind of re-analyzed reduplication happens in the Huasteca too. So: >>>>> 1. ahci, nic. to touch s.o. or s.t. >>>>> 2. aahci, nic. to touch s.t. after all >>>>> 3. Carlos quiaahci. Carlos touches it after all >>>>> 4. Nicacahci. I touch it after all. >>>>> John >>>> >>>> >>>> John: >>>> >>>> I'm wondering about number 4. I don't get the second -c-. >>>> >>>> Michael >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> On May 12, 2010, at 9:07 AM, Leeming, Ben wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Piyali listeros, >>>>>> >>>>>> Can anyone explain to me the process by which mo+(i)ttah (they look >>>>>> at each other, see themselves) becomes mohottah? >>>>>> >>>>>> On p. 90 of Andrews? Workbook (1975 ed.), Ex. 38A, no. 3 he writes: >>>>>> Nepanotl mohottah, and then on p. 195 gives the translation ?They >>>>>> are staring at one another mutually; i.e., They are staring at one >>>>>> another.? On p. 445 of the text, in the Vocabulary under (iTTA) he >>>>>> has ?MO-(iTTA) = to look at oneself, to see oneself.? This is close >>>>>> to but not identical with mohottah. >>>>>> >>>>>> I have this sinking feeling that it?s something really obvious, but >>>>>> for whatever reason I can?t account for that first h!! >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank you! >>>>>> >>>>>> Ben >>>>>> >>>>>> Ben Leeming >>>>>> Chair, History Department >>>>>> The Rivers School >>>>>> Weston, MA 02493 >>>>>> (781) 235-9300 >>>>>> >>>>>> Sample disclaimer text >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Nahuatl mailing list >>>>>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org >>>>>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Nahuatl mailing list >>>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org >>>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl >>> >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Nahuatl mailing list >> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org >> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Thu May 13 00:36:23 2010 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 20:36:23 -0400 Subject: mohottah In-Reply-To: <37D5A062-AD94-4F09-BB2C-CB3633CA7C9F@me.com> Message-ID: John, Epenthesis is the addition of a consonant or a vowel to a word, usually inside the word. It's a common linguistic phenomenon in languages around the world. In Miami-Illinois, an Algonquian language, we see it in addition /a/ in the pronunciation of the French name Fran?ois: Fr. /fr?swa/ -> M-I /palanswa/. The French consonant cluster /fr/ was difficult for Miami-Illinois speakers. In English you see consonant epenthesis for example in the pronunciation /warmpth/ for /warmth/ ("warmth"). I do that thoughtlessly. Seems as if epenthesis aids in vocalizing. I can't say what the occurrence of epenthesis is in Nahuatl, but it we might look for Nahuatl vowel epenthesis (called--grimace--"anaptyxis") in Spanish loan words with consonant clusters Nahuatl resists. Michael Quoting "John Sullivan, Ph.D." : > Michael, > Ok, I don?t know what epenthetic means. Can you explain the term? > And does this phenomenon occur in other situations in Nahuatl? > John > On May 12, 2010, at 5:59 PM, Michael McCafferty wrote: > >> Hi, John, >> >> You know, my first (gut?) feeling about this was that that -c- was >> epenthetic, not resulting from reduplication. >> >> Yes, this is cool, and...strange. >> >> */ni-k-aa?si/ -> /ni-ka-k-a?si/ >> >> Michael >> >> Quoting "John Sullivan, Ph.D." : >> >>> Michael, >>> If I want to reduplicate the stem of quiahci, the first syllable >>> that contains elements of the stem is ah, so the a is reduplicated. >>> If I want to reduplicate the stem of nicahci, the first syllable >>> containing elements of the stem is cah, right? So in this case the ca >>> is reduplicated. This only happens with transitive verbs whose stem >>> begins in a vowel, and when the subject is ni or ti (hence, the >>> initial sequence nic or tic). Cool, huh? >>> John >>> >>> On May 12, 2010, at 12:06 PM, Michael McCafferty wrote: >>> >>>> Quoting "John Sullivan, Ph.D." : >>>> >>>>> Piyali Ben, >>>>> You know that when mo- and itta come together, the o wins out over >>>>> the i because although both are short, the o is stronger than the i. >>>>> So we get motta, which you will see all the time in texts. Now, when >>>>> it comes time to reduplicate, you reduplicate the new word, motta, >>>>> which is now understood to be m-otta, and you get m-ohotta. >>>>> This kind of re-analyzed reduplication happens in the Huasteca too. So: >>>>> 1. ahci, nic. to touch s.o. or s.t. >>>>> 2. aahci, nic. to touch s.t. after all >>>>> 3. Carlos quiaahci. Carlos touches it after all >>>>> 4. Nicacahci. I touch it after all. >>>>> John >>>> >>>> >>>> John: >>>> >>>> I'm wondering about number 4. I don't get the second -c-. >>>> >>>> Michael >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> On May 12, 2010, at 9:07 AM, Leeming, Ben wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Piyali listeros, >>>>>> >>>>>> Can anyone explain to me the process by which mo+(i)ttah (they look >>>>>> at each other, see themselves) becomes mohottah? >>>>>> >>>>>> On p. 90 of Andrews? Workbook (1975 ed.), Ex. 38A, no. 3 he writes: >>>>>> Nepanotl mohottah, and then on p. 195 gives the translation ?They >>>>>> are staring at one another mutually; i.e., They are staring at one >>>>>> another.? On p. 445 of the text, in the Vocabulary under (iTTA) he >>>>>> has ?MO-(iTTA) = to look at oneself, to see oneself.? This is close >>>>>> to but not identical with mohottah. >>>>>> >>>>>> I have this sinking feeling that it?s something really obvious, but >>>>>> for whatever reason I can?t account for that first h!! >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank you! >>>>>> >>>>>> Ben >>>>>> >>>>>> Ben Leeming >>>>>> Chair, History Department >>>>>> The Rivers School >>>>>> Weston, MA 02493 >>>>>> (781) 235-9300 >>>>>> >>>>>> Sample disclaimer text >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Nahuatl mailing list >>>>>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org >>>>>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Nahuatl mailing list >>>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org >>>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl >>> >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Nahuatl mailing list >> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org >> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From campbel at indiana.edu Thu May 13 03:33:57 2010 From: campbel at indiana.edu (Campbell, R. Joe) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 23:33:57 -0400 Subject: mohottah Message-ID: Ben, I agree with Michael's and John's first comments, so mine are just additive. At the beginning, I (like probably more than a few others) focused my attention on the fact that the reduplication was operating on the 'o' of the prefix rather than expected initial vowel of the stem. But weren't you concerned with the 'h' itself? My first lesson on this was forty years ago and it remains my iconic image of an explanation for some facts about reduplication. One of my early native speaker teachers was telling me that 'I hop' was "nitzicuini" (here I'm taking the liberty of converting the modern regional form to one that corresponds to the older more generally known form). She commented that you could also say "nitzitzicuini" or "nitzihtzicuini". I probably wrinkled my brow (unnecessary nowadays) and asked what the difference was. She stood up and hopped several times in place and said, 'that's "nitzitzicuini"' (I take the further liberty of translating into English.) And then she hopped around from one place to another and grinned, 'that's "nitzihtzicuini"'. So when I think about the 'h' occurring with reduplication meaning "distributive" in either time or space (or even people), I can still see her hopping up and down or doing an imitation of jumping over one mud puddle and then another. So the 'h' involves separate events and the lack of it involves a prolonged event (I know that I'm over-generalizing, but I also know that everyone has a ready copy of Andrews.) Back to the reduplication of the 'o'... As I was driving this morning, I asked my primary consultant for a better way to say what I thought was going on than what I then explained. We failed to formalize it better, so here it is. People who concern themselves with theory would very likely find an interesting topic here, but you don't have to be concerned with theory to blink and say, "I haven't found anything like that in Nahuatl before!". Reduplication applies to the first vowel *of the stem* (and any preceding consonants), but in the case of , where the /i/ is elided by the preceding /o/, there is no first vowel remaining in the stem to undergo reduplication. So the /o/ (culprit of the elision) takes over for its victim (i.e., /i/) and reduplicates. Iztayohmeh, Joe Quoting "Leeming, Ben" : > Piyali listeros, > > Can anyone explain to me the process by which mo+(i)ttah (they look > at each other, see themselves) becomes mohottah? > > On p. 90 of Andrews' Workbook (1975 ed.), Ex. 38A, no. 3 he writes: > Nepanotl mohottah, and then on p. 195 gives the translation "They are > staring at one another mutually; i.e., They are staring at one > another." On p. 445 of the text, in the Vocabulary under (iTTA) he > has "MO-(iTTA) = to look at oneself, to see oneself." This is close > to but not identical with mohottah. > > I have this sinking feeling that it's something really obvious, but > for whatever reason I can't account for that first h!! > > Thank you! > > Ben > > Ben Leeming > Chair, History Department > The Rivers School > Weston, MA 02493 > (781) 235-9300 > > ________________________________ > Sample disclaimer text > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx Thu May 13 16:07:20 2010 From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 11:07:20 -0500 Subject: mohottah Message-ID: Listeros: I love Joe?s hopping example. It reminds me of thirty years ago when my Otomi-speaking father-in-law was teaching me how to pronounce the closed central vowel (written today with an underlined u) over a meal of gorditas, frijoles and salsa. He held out his spoon with beans in it and emphasized the pronunciation of the word for bean, ju (underlined u, with an ascending tonal glide), sticking his head out and exaggerating the position of his mouth. That mental snapshot will be forever linked to the vowel in my mind. As for reduplication with and without the saltillo, Joe?s teacher?s demonstration reassured me that I?m ?getting? Carochi?s example in the explanation I recently wrote for a second edition of a textbook. After briefly explaining the four basic types of reduplication (CVh, CV:, CV with -ca, CV with -tza), and giving some examples of the first two types, I explain the semantic distinction between them (each word is written twice, in italics for traditional spelling and between vertical lines for the Andrews/Karttunen traditional/phonemic orthography; macrons have been converted to colons and accents have been eliminated to facilitate transmission by e-mail): *********************************************************** Un verbo iterativo hecho con la reduplicacion del primer tipo suele tener un significado distinto a la forma hecha con la reduplicacion del segundo tipo [aqu? se citan a Carochi y a Lockhart, incluyendo una transcripcion de la confesi?n de Carochi de que no entiende las sutilezas del asunto]. En las siguientes palabras-oracion, formadas a partir del verbo transitivo zaca |zaca|, ?acarrear?, se puede observar esta distincion semantica. Primero se presenta el verbo sin reduplicacion, luego con el primer tipo de reduplicacion (CV mas saltillo) y finalmente con el segundo tipo (CV con vocal larga). Observese como la distincion entre ambos tipos es invisible en la ortografia tradicional, lo cual dificulta la traduccion de los textos novohispanos que no representan el saltillo ni las vocales largas: - nitlazaca |nitlazaca| (|ni| + |tla| + |zaca|), ?yo acarreo algo (una vez y desde un lugar)?; - nitlazazaca |nitlazahzaca| (|ni| + |tla| + |zah| + |zaca|), ?yo acarreo algo apresuradamente (repetidas veces y desde distintos lugares)?; - nitlazazaca |nitlaza:zaca| (|ni| + |tla| + |za:| + |zaca|), ?yo acarreo algo apresuradamente (repetidas veces y desde un lugar)? (Carochi, 2001: 270, 271 [libro 3, capitulo 16, seccion 2]). En las dos formas podemos observar que la reduplicacion proporciona al verbo un sentido intensificado (expresado por medio de la palabra ?apresuradamente?), en adicion a la idea de la repeticion de la accion. *********************************************************** Suggestions are welcome; this is a work in progress. Saludos desde Guanajuato, David -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From campbel at indiana.edu Thu May 13 23:35:36 2010 From: campbel at indiana.edu (Campbell, R. Joe) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 19:35:36 -0400 Subject: mohottah Message-ID: Nocnihuan, I thought that I should probably clarify my use of the word "teachers" in my learning Nahuatl. I have to confess that I have never had a formal class in the language. By "teachers" in this context, I refer to the various native speakers who have helped me make progress. In 1962, I went to Tepoztlan, Morelos, as a member of a group of graduate students under the guidance of Ken Hale, then a young professor at the University of Illinois. He placed a group of four in the small nearby village of San Andres and helped Paul Puritt and me to find living space in Tepoztlan. Ken introduced me to a Nahuatl speaker, who was a veteran of the Revolution, in fact, who had fought with Zapata. I sat down with him and started asking for single word translations and repeating them as I made notes... That didn't work, since he had little patience for someone who mangled his words, failing miserably on the syllable-final [h], a frequent modern result of the historical glottal stop. Don Juanito and I remained good friends, made trips together, had long chats with beer on my porch, but Paul and I found someone else to help us through the hour-by-hour work all summer -- a sixteen year old girl (and sometimes her father) from nearby Santa Catarina. When Indiana University wanted someone to teach Nahuatl in 1970, I accepted the assignment with the understanding that they would pay a native speaker to co-teach the class in a field methods format. The young woman who spent an academic year in Bloomington was extremely communicative (and very instrumental in my learning more Nahuatl) as we spent many hours each week planning out "safe" areas of the language to present in class. It was she who clarified for me the function of reduplication in Nahuatl verbs through her hopping. Through the 1980s, I spent time in Cuernavaca and Taxco, looking for people who spoke the Guerrero Balsas Valley Nahuatl. One person who spent a lot of time with me was an elderly vendor from Ameyaltepec. And in Taxco, a family from San Agustin Oapan seemed to adopt me, with the young son abandoning his family work of painting amates and tending their vending stall to spend mountains of time with me and my tape recorder, acting as my "point man" in trips to outlying towns, and even getting me to wade barefoot in the Balsas River, helping him with the fishing nets. In 1989 and 1992 I worked with a native speaker from Canoa, Puebla, the late Alberto Zepeda, in co-teaching a course on his dialect during Fran's NEH Institutes. On Friday before the classes were to start on Monday, I told him that I didn't know anything about Canoa Nahuatl, but that by Monday we had to be ready to teach a class together as if I did. And we repeated our co-teaching act at the University of Chicago summer school in 1996. I can't imagine a more intense language learning experience than those three summers. In the Spring semester of 1998, a speaker of the Tlaxcallan dialect came to Bloomington and stayed well into the Summer. We visited each other's classes and became good friends, resulting in our sweating through the heat of a sun-heated limestone building with no air-conditioning for weeks and weeks to translate Gonzalez Casanova's _Cuentos Indigenas_ into Tlaxcallan Nahuatl. These people have been my most important teachers of Nahuatl. Not all of them had a teaching certificate, but that didn't diminish the effect of their teaching on me. David's example of vowel-learning in the midst of sharing food reminds me that many of you have undoubtedly had similar experiences. I would be amiss if I didn't mention two members of the Franciscan Order: Fray Alonso de Molina and Fray Bernardino de Sahagun. They have both been generous beyond the Call in the innumerable hours that they have spent with me. Joe _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Fri May 14 00:25:00 2010 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 20:25:00 -0400 Subject: mohottah In-Reply-To: <20100513193536.0aoagevw0s4gc88o@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: Joe, You forgot to mention the fact that from 1970 until after 2000 at Indiana University so many scholars now working with the language cut their Nahuatl teeth on your table. Michael Quoting "Campbell, R. Joe" : > Nocnihuan, > > I thought that I should probably clarify my use of the word > "teachers" in my learning Nahuatl. I have to confess that I have never > had a formal class in the language. By "teachers" in this context, I > refer to the various native speakers who have helped me make progress. > In 1962, I went to Tepoztlan, Morelos, as a member of a group of > graduate students under the guidance of Ken Hale, then a young > professor at the University of Illinois. He placed a group of four in > the small nearby village of San Andres and helped Paul Puritt and me to > find living space in Tepoztlan. Ken introduced me to a Nahuatl > speaker, who was a veteran of the Revolution, in fact, who had fought > with Zapata. I sat down with him and started asking for single word > translations and repeating them as I made notes... That didn't work, > since he had little patience for someone who mangled his words, failing > miserably on the syllable-final [h], a frequent modern result of the > historical glottal stop. > > Don Juanito and I remained good friends, made trips together, had > long chats with beer on my porch, but Paul and I found someone else to > help us through the hour-by-hour work all summer -- a sixteen year old > girl (and sometimes her father) from nearby Santa Catarina. > > When Indiana University wanted someone to teach Nahuatl in 1970, I > accepted the assignment with the understanding that they would pay a > native speaker to co-teach the class in a field methods format. The > young woman who spent an academic year in Bloomington was extremely > communicative (and very instrumental in my learning more Nahuatl) as we > spent many hours each week planning out "safe" areas of the language to > present in class. It was she who clarified for me the function of > reduplication in Nahuatl verbs through her hopping. > > Through the 1980s, I spent time in Cuernavaca and Taxco, looking for > people who spoke the Guerrero Balsas Valley Nahuatl. One person who > spent a lot of time with me was an elderly vendor from Ameyaltepec. > And in Taxco, a family from San Agustin Oapan seemed to adopt me, with > the young son abandoning his family work of painting amates and tending > their vending stall to spend mountains of time with me and my tape > recorder, acting as my "point man" in trips to outlying towns, and even > getting me to wade barefoot in the Balsas River, helping him with the > fishing nets. > > In 1989 and 1992 I worked with a native speaker from Canoa, Puebla, > the late Alberto Zepeda, in co-teaching a course on his dialect during > Fran's NEH Institutes. On Friday before the classes were to start on > Monday, I told him that I didn't know anything about Canoa Nahuatl, but > that by Monday we had to be ready to teach a class together as if I > did. And we repeated our co-teaching act at the University of Chicago > summer school in 1996. I can't imagine a more intense language > learning experience than those three summers. > > In the Spring semester of 1998, a speaker of the Tlaxcallan dialect > came to Bloomington and stayed well into the Summer. We visited each > other's classes > and became good friends, resulting in our sweating through the heat of > a sun-heated limestone building with no air-conditioning for weeks and > weeks to translate Gonzalez Casanova's _Cuentos Indigenas_ into > Tlaxcallan Nahuatl. > > These people have been my most important teachers of Nahuatl. Not > all of them had a teaching certificate, but that didn't diminish the > effect of their teaching on me. > > David's example of vowel-learning in the midst of sharing food > reminds me that many of you have undoubtedly had similar experiences. > > I would be amiss if I didn't mention two members of the Franciscan Order: > Fray Alonso de Molina and Fray Bernardino de Sahagun. They have both > been generous beyond the Call in the innumerable hours that they have > spent with me. > > Joe > > > > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From schwallr at potsdam.edu Fri May 14 01:15:06 2010 From: schwallr at potsdam.edu (John F. Schwaller) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 21:15:06 -0400 Subject: mohottah In-Reply-To: <20100513202500.u7ixrwnfk0sksckc@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: I guess I must have been earlier than I thought since I studied in 1972-74 with Joe. Tlahzocamati huel miac. > > Joe, > > You forgot to mention the fact that from 1970 until after 2000 at > Indiana University so many scholars now working with the language cut > their Nahuatl teeth on your table. > > Michael > > > > > Quoting "Campbell, R. Joe" : > >> Nocnihuan, >> >> I thought that I should probably clarify my use of the word >> "teachers" in my learning Nahuatl. I have to confess that I have never >> had a formal class in the language. By "teachers" in this context, I >> refer to the various native speakers who have helped me make progress. >> In 1962, I went to Tepoztlan, Morelos, as a member of a group of >> graduate students under the guidance of Ken Hale, then a young >> professor at the University of Illinois. He placed a group of four in >> the small nearby village of San Andres and helped Paul Puritt and me to >> find living space in Tepoztlan. Ken introduced me to a Nahuatl >> speaker, who was a veteran of the Revolution, in fact, who had fought >> with Zapata. I sat down with him and started asking for single word >> translations and repeating them as I made notes... That didn't work, >> since he had little patience for someone who mangled his words, failing >> miserably on the syllable-final [h], a frequent modern result of the >> historical glottal stop. >> >> Don Juanito and I remained good friends, made trips together, had >> long chats with beer on my porch, but Paul and I found someone else to >> help us through the hour-by-hour work all summer -- a sixteen year old >> girl (and sometimes her father) from nearby Santa Catarina. >> >> When Indiana University wanted someone to teach Nahuatl in 1970, I >> accepted the assignment with the understanding that they would pay a >> native speaker to co-teach the class in a field methods format. The >> young woman who spent an academic year in Bloomington was extremely >> communicative (and very instrumental in my learning more Nahuatl) as we >> spent many hours each week planning out "safe" areas of the language to >> present in class. It was she who clarified for me the function of >> reduplication in Nahuatl verbs through her hopping. >> >> Through the 1980s, I spent time in Cuernavaca and Taxco, looking for >> people who spoke the Guerrero Balsas Valley Nahuatl. One person who >> spent a lot of time with me was an elderly vendor from Ameyaltepec. >> And in Taxco, a family from San Agustin Oapan seemed to adopt me, with >> the young son abandoning his family work of painting amates and tending >> their vending stall to spend mountains of time with me and my tape >> recorder, acting as my "point man" in trips to outlying towns, and even >> getting me to wade barefoot in the Balsas River, helping him with the >> fishing nets. >> >> In 1989 and 1992 I worked with a native speaker from Canoa, Puebla, >> the late Alberto Zepeda, in co-teaching a course on his dialect during >> Fran's NEH Institutes. On Friday before the classes were to start on >> Monday, I told him that I didn't know anything about Canoa Nahuatl, but >> that by Monday we had to be ready to teach a class together as if I >> did. And we repeated our co-teaching act at the University of Chicago >> summer school in 1996. I can't imagine a more intense language >> learning experience than those three summers. >> >> In the Spring semester of 1998, a speaker of the Tlaxcallan dialect >> came to Bloomington and stayed well into the Summer. We visited each >> other's classes >> and became good friends, resulting in our sweating through the heat of >> a sun-heated limestone building with no air-conditioning for weeks and >> weeks to translate Gonzalez Casanova's _Cuentos Indigenas_ into >> Tlaxcallan Nahuatl. >> >> These people have been my most important teachers of Nahuatl. Not >> all of them had a teaching certificate, but that didn't diminish the >> effect of their teaching on me. >> >> David's example of vowel-learning in the midst of sharing food >> reminds me that many of you have undoubtedly had similar experiences. >> >> I would be amiss if I didn't mention two members of the Franciscan >> Order: >> Fray Alonso de Molina and Fray Bernardino de Sahagun. They have both >> been generous beyond the Call in the innumerable hours that they have >> spent with me. >> >> Joe >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Nahuatl mailing list >> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org >> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > -- John F. Schwaller President, SUNY Potsdam 44 Pierrepont Ave. Potsdam, NY 13676 schwallr at potsdam.edu _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From t_amaya at megared.net.mx Fri May 14 12:45:09 2010 From: t_amaya at megared.net.mx (Tomas Amaya) Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 07:45:09 -0500 Subject: mohottah In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Tocnihuan! I just want to make some contributions to the topic ?mohotah?, with examples taken from the nahuat of Cuetzalan. 1. I have never heard mohota. I have heard: a. moi-itah (meaning: they see each other) b. moihitah (meaning: they stare at each other (inquisitively)) 2. Moomotah (they see each other frequently ) e.g. moomotah eheyitonaltica (they see each other every three days) 3. Other examples of reduplication: a. quiquequelohua: he tickles him b. quiqu?hquelohua: he irritates, bothers (laugh at) him (e.g. yn Tezcatlipoca techquehquelohua) c. quiteetetenehua: he mentions one person and then another (e.g. describing what each person is doing) d. teet?htenehua: he talks a lot (badly) about the people (e.g. the neighbors) 4. From the first time I read this ?mohotah?, I related it with ?moihitah?. Niamechyoltaatapalohua paaquiliztica, amo p?apaquiliztica. Receive my heartfelt ?hello? not my flattering ?hi?. Tomas Amaya De: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org [mailto:nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org] En nombre de Leeming, Ben Enviado el: Mi?rcoles, 12 de Mayo de 2010 09:07 a.m. Para: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org Asunto: [Nahuat-l] mohottah Piyali listeros, Can anyone explain to me the process by which mo+(i)ttah (they look at each other, see themselves) becomes mohottah? On p. 90 of Andrews? Workbook (1975 ed.), Ex. 38A, no. 3 he writes: Nepanotl mohottah, and then on p. 195 gives the translation ?They are staring at one another mutually; i.e., They are staring at one another.? On p. 445 of the text, in the Vocabulary under (iTTA) he has ?MO-(iTTA) = to look at oneself, to see oneself.? This is close to but not identical with mohottah. I have this sinking feeling that it?s something really obvious, but for whatever reason I can?t account for that first h!! Thank you! Ben Ben Leeming Chair, History Department The Rivers School Weston, MA 02493 (781) 235-9300 _____ Sample disclaimer text __________ Informaci?n de ESET Smart Security, versi?n de la base de firmas de virus 5110 (20100512) __________ ESET Smart Security ha comprobado este mensaje. http://www.eset.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Fri May 14 22:30:41 2010 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 18:30:41 -0400 Subject: mohottah In-Reply-To: <000001caf363$49e644e0$ddb2cea0$@net.mx> Message-ID: Tlaxtlahui, Tomas, It's interesting to see how different dialects have solved this "problem". Michael Quoting Tomas Amaya : > Tocnihuan! > > I just want to make some contributions to the topic ?mohotah?, with examples > taken from the nahuat of Cuetzalan. > > 1. I have never heard mohota. I have heard: > > a. moi-itah (meaning: they see each other) > > b. moihitah (meaning: they stare at each other (inquisitively)) > > 2. Moomotah (they see each other frequently ) e.g. moomotah > eheyitonaltica (they see each other every three days) > > 3. Other examples of reduplication: > > a. quiquequelohua: he tickles him > > b. quiqu?hquelohua: he irritates, bothers (laugh at) him (e.g. yn > Tezcatlipoca techquehquelohua) > > c. quiteetetenehua: he mentions one person and then another (e.g. > describing what each person is doing) > > d. teet?htenehua: he talks a lot (badly) about the people (e.g. the > neighbors) > > > > 4. From the first time I read this ?mohotah?, I related it with > ?moihitah?. > > Niamechyoltaatapalohua paaquiliztica, amo p?apaquiliztica. Receive my > heartfelt ?hello? not my flattering ?hi?. > > > > Tomas Amaya > > > > > > De: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org [mailto:nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org] > En nombre de Leeming, Ben > Enviado el: Mi?rcoles, 12 de Mayo de 2010 09:07 a.m. > Para: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > Asunto: [Nahuat-l] mohottah > > > > Piyali listeros, > > Can anyone explain to me the process by which mo+(i)ttah (they look at each > other, see themselves) becomes mohottah? > > On p. 90 of Andrews? Workbook (1975 ed.), Ex. 38A, no. 3 he writes: Nepanotl > mohottah, and then on p. 195 gives the translation ?They are staring at one > another mutually; i.e., They are staring at one another.? On p. 445 of the > text, in the Vocabulary under (iTTA) he has ?MO-(iTTA) = to look at oneself, > to see oneself.? This is close to but not identical with mohottah. > > I have this sinking feeling that it?s something really obvious, but for > whatever reason I can?t account for that first h!! > > Thank you! > > Ben > > Ben Leeming > Chair, History Department > The Rivers School > Weston, MA 02493 > (781) 235-9300 > > _____ > > Sample disclaimer text > > > __________ Informaci?n de ESET Smart Security, versi?n de la base de firmas > de virus 5110 (20100512) __________ > > ESET Smart Security ha comprobado este mensaje. > > http://www.eset.com > > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From idiez at me.com Fri May 28 11:33:59 2010 From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan) Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 07:33:59 -0400 Subject: Nahuatl Twitter Message-ID: Piyali momachtianih, I?m in the final day of the Consortium for Language Teaching and Learning?s workshop, "Exploring Pedagogical and Technological Models for Hybrid and Distance Collaborations" at Yale, and have finally persuaded myself to start a little project I have been thinking about and putting off for a while now. The people at IDIEZ now have a twitter account, and at least once per day, we will post a short phrase in Modern Huastecan Nahuatl, with a translation, for those of you who could use some Nahuatl on the run. Our Twitter name is "idiezac". Suggestions for content, criticisms, etc., are welcome. Blogs, wikis and more will follow soon. John John Sullivan, Ph.D. Professor of Nahua language and culture Universidad Aut?noma de Zacatecas Zacatecas Institute of Teaching and Research in Ethnology Tacuba 152, int. 43 Centro Hist?rico Zacatecas, Zac. 98000 Mexico Work: +52 (492) 925-3415 Fax: +1 (858) 724-3030 (U.S.A.) Home: +52 (492) 768-6048 Mobile: +52 1 (492) 103-0195 idiez at me.com www.macehualli.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mbassett at gsu.edu Mon May 31 18:01:04 2010 From: mbassett at gsu.edu (Molly Bassett) Date: Mon, 31 May 2010 14:01:04 -0400 Subject: matlalin - blue, green, blue-green? Message-ID: Hi, all. I'm working on a piece dealing with the significance of colors in precontact Central Mexican religious contexts, and I have a question about the meaning of ma:tla:lin. Frances Karttunen follows Molina in defining matlalin as ?the color dark green?: ?This is attested in Z in matlalzahuatl (literally ?green pox?) and possibly in Matlalpan, although the sense of the latter would be obcure from this gloss, which appears to have something to do with lowness of sature. Conceivably it is derived instead from tlalpan ?on the ground'" (139). But Dibble & Anderson translate matlalin as ?blue? in the Florentine, which notes that "its name comes from nowhere. It is the blossom of an herb, a blossom. This matlalin is blue and a little herb-green. It is very sound, firm, good, of good appearance, fresh green. It is fresh green, very resh green. . . . / acan quizqui in itoca, xihuitl ixochyo, xochitl: inin matlali texotic, ihuan achi quiltic, cenca ixtlapalhui, ixchicactic, cualli, cualnezqui, celic, celic, celpatic. . . ." (11: 240). The Badianus Ms. cites matlalxochitl (presumably the xochitl referred to in the Florentine?) as an element in a treatment for "heat" in the eyes (pl. 14, p. 218). The footnote for matlalxochitl glosses the term as "blue flower" identifies the plant as "the dayflower, Commelina, of which a number of species are found on the Mexican plateau. A native variant Nahuatl name for it is matlaliztic. Hern?ndez refers to several varieties of matlalxochitl (pp. 383-4), but none of the illustrations resembles Commelina; thus the name must have been applied to several flowers of blue color" (219-20). So, two of these three sources relate matlalin to blue; I haven't followed up on Hern?ndez yet. Are there other places I should look for more information on matlalin as blue or green? I realize that blue-green functioned as a range or spectrum in precontact Mesoamerica, but the discrepancy among these sources has piqued my curiosity. Thanks, Molly ---------------------------------------------------------- Molly H. Bassett Assistant Professor, Mesoamerican Religions and Indigenous Traditions Department of Religious Studies Georgia State University 1137 34 Peachtree Street NW Atlanta, GA 30302 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl