From idiez at me.com  Fri Oct  1 01:08:04 2010
From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan)
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 20:08:04 -0500
Subject: Zampa piltlahcuiloltzin tlen CH
Message-ID: <THU.30.SEP.2010.200804.0500.IDIEZ@ME.COM>

Piyali listeros,
	After consulting Lopez Austin book and not finding a word for "vocal folds" we have invented "-tozcaamayo", and will include it in the definitions.
Thanks for the suggestions regarding the affricates. Here's a new version of CH.
John

CH. piltlahcuiloltzin. Quimanextia tentlatzacuilcayotl tlen caquizti quemman motzacua tocopac, tonenepilpatlauhca quitzacua ihyotl campa quinamiqui iican tocamatapalpamiuh huan tonenepil eli quentzin comoltic; noque tonenepil itehtenno nocca quinamiqui tocamatapalpamiuh, tonenepilpitzauhca tlamacauhtehua yolic, huan zozomoca ihyotl nelpiltlatoctzin quemman pehua quiza.

CH. letter. It represents the consonant that is heard when the velum closes, the middle of the tongue touches the back of the alveolar ridge stopping the airflow and the tongue becomes slightly concave; with the sides of the tongue still touching the alveolar ridge, the blade of the tongue releases slowly and the air makes a hissing sound for an instant as it begins to be expelled.
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From k_salmon at ipinc.net  Mon Oct  4 00:04:23 2010
From: k_salmon at ipinc.net (Kier Salmon)
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2010 17:04:23 -0700
Subject: Names
Message-ID: <SUN.3.OCT.2010.170423.0700.KSALMON@IPINC.NET>

Recently I got an inquiry as to how the Mayans made up their names and  
were there rules?

I remember some time ago somebody posted a compilation of female and  
male Nahuatl names from the extant papers.  Would anybody know if a  
similar work has been done for Mayan names and where I could find such  
a resource?

Thank you all for your kind attention.

Kier Salmon

_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From stefanyteufel at yahoo.de  Mon Oct  4 04:29:17 2010
From: stefanyteufel at yahoo.de (Stefanie Teufel)
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2010 21:29:17 -0700
Subject: Names
In-Reply-To: <9A97493B-4EA9-4E7F-9490-B6A1370DBCB6@ipinc.net>
Message-ID: <SUN.3.OCT.2010.212917.0700.STEFANYTEUFEL@YAHOO.DE>

Hi,
if you looking for the ancient Maya, you can check the doctoral thesis of Pierre 
Colas "Sinn und Bedeutung Klassischer Maya Personennamen"  (Publisher: 
Sauerwein).
But it is in German.
Best 
Stefanie




________________________________
Von: Kier Salmon <k_salmon at ipinc.net>
An: Nahuat-l ((messages)) <nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>
Gesendet: Montag, den 4. Oktober 2010, 2:04:23 Uhr
Betreff: [Nahuat-l] Names

Recently I got an inquiry as to how the Mayans made up their names and  
were there rules?

I remember some time ago somebody posted a compilation of female and  
male Nahuatl names from the extant papers.  Would anybody know if a  
similar work has been done for Mayan names and where I could find such  
a resource?

Thank you all for your kind attention.

Kier Salmon

_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


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From alec.battles at gmail.com  Tue Oct  5 00:07:59 2010
From: alec.battles at gmail.com (Alec Battles)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 09:07:59 +0900
Subject: Names
In-Reply-To: <268898.68372.qm@web28614.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.5.OCT.2010.090759.0900.ALEC.BATTLES@GMAIL.COM>

I'd also be interested in reading about this. I don't know German, but
Google translate does a remarkably good job of rendering German text
into English. That said, Colas's thesis is not available online, as
far as I can tell. Does anyone know of an online resource
(language-agnostic)?

Alec

On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 1:29 PM, Stefanie Teufel <stefanyteufel at yahoo.de> wrote:
> Hi,
> if you looking for the ancient Maya, you can check the doctoral thesis of
> Pierre Colas "Sinn und Bedeutung Klassischer Maya Personennamen"
> (Publisher: Sauerwein).
> But it is in German.
> Best
> Stefanie
>
> ________________________________
> Von: Kier Salmon <k_salmon at ipinc.net>
> An: Nahuat-l ((messages)) <nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>
> Gesendet: Montag, den 4. Oktober 2010, 2:04:23 Uhr
> Betreff: [Nahuat-l] Names
>
> Recently I got an inquiry as to how the Mayans made up their names and
> were there rules?
>
> I remember some time ago somebody posted a compilation of female and
> male Nahuatl names from the extant papers.  Would anybody know if a
> similar work has been done for Mayan names and where I could find such
> a resource?
>
> Thank you all for your kind attention.
>
> Kier Salmon
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>
>

_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From stefanyteufel at yahoo.de  Wed Oct  6 07:06:04 2010
From: stefanyteufel at yahoo.de (Stefanie Teufel)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2010 07:06:04 +0000
Subject: Names
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinJ2iDQjgHtGxb+5SsCooSAcvQL9nsAn364Mutb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <WED.6.OCT.2010.070604.0000.STEFANYTEUFEL@YAHOO.DE>

Hi,

unfortunately there is no online resource available. One has to order that 
book, but perhaps you will find it in a library in the States or ask the members 
of "aztlan" at famsi.

Colas, Pierre R. 
Sinn und Bedeutung klassischer Maya-Personennamen. Typologische Analyse von 
Anthropo-nymphrasen in den Hieroglypheninschriften der klassischen Maya-Kultur 
als Beitrag zur Allgemeinen Onomastik. Acta Mesoamericana, Vol. 15, 2004, 
xxxv+433pp., cloth, size 21×29,5cm, ISBN 3-931419-11-8, EUR 78,00 (including 
25pp. English summary, and database with 2800 entries on CD)
 
 The link to the publisher: 
 http://www.mexicon.de/saurwein.html
 
 
There is also one short article (in Spanish) about Maya names in Arqueología 
Mexicana 2001.
 
Best, 
Stefanie
 
 
 




________________________________
Von: Alec Battles <alec.battles at gmail.com>
An: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
Gesendet: Dienstag, den 5. Oktober 2010, 2:07:59 Uhr
Betreff: Re: [Nahuat-l] Names

I'd also be interested in reading about this. I don't know German, but
Google translate does a remarkably good job of rendering German text
into English. That said, Colas's thesis is not available online, as
far as I can tell. Does anyone know of an online resource
(language-agnostic)?

Alec

On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 1:29 PM, Stefanie Teufel <stefanyteufel at yahoo.de> wrote:
> Hi,
> if you looking for the ancient Maya, you can check the doctoral thesis of
> Pierre Colas "Sinn und Bedeutung Klassischer Maya Personennamen"
> (Publisher: Sauerwein).
> But it is in German.
> Best
> Stefanie
>
> ________________________________
> Von: Kier Salmon <k_salmon at ipinc.net>
> An: Nahuat-l ((messages)) <nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>
> Gesendet: Montag, den 4. Oktober 2010, 2:04:23 Uhr
> Betreff: [Nahuat-l] Names
>
> Recently I got an inquiry as to how the Mayans made up their names and
> were there rules?
>
> I remember some time ago somebody posted a compilation of female and
> male Nahuatl names from the extant papers.  Would anybody know if a
> similar work has been done for Mayan names and where I could find such
> a resource?
>
> Thank you all for your kind attention.
>
> Kier Salmon
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>
>

_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


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From schwallr at potsdam.edu  Wed Oct  6 14:36:37 2010
From: schwallr at potsdam.edu (John F. Schwaller)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2010 10:36:37 -0400
Subject: Foundation Course
Message-ID: <WED.6.OCT.2010.103637.0400.SCHWALLR@POTSDAM.EDU>

Colleagues,

I am having a new set of copies of Campbell and Karttunen's _Foundation 
Course_ printed.  I have checked the cost to mail the two volumes to 
Europe and have been pleasantly surprised that postage has actually 
decreased.  I know that the cost of printing has gone up, but I do not 
yet know by how much.  Since the books are sold strictly at cost, as 
soon as the new copies are printed I will let folks know what the cost 
of the set is, including shipping and handling, and make the appropriate 
changes to the web page.

J. F. Schwaller

-- 
*****************************
John F. Schwaller
President
SUNY - Potsdam
44 Pierrepont Ave.
Potsdam, NY  13676
Tel. 315-267-2100
FAX 315-267-2496

_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From mhopkins at fas.harvard.edu  Wed Oct  6 15:01:16 2010
From: mhopkins at fas.harvard.edu (Hopkins, Mary)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2010 11:01:16 -0400
Subject: Names
In-Reply-To: <616351.20253.qm@web28604.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <WED.6.OCT.2010.110116.0400.MHOPKINS@FAS.HARVARD.EDU>

Library worker here.

Go to your local library, ask the interlibrary loan dept. to look it up for you. The OCLC record number that covers copies in the US is 57730296. It's not ubiquitous, but it's not that rare either.

Mary

From: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org [mailto:nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org] On Behalf Of Stefanie Teufel
Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 3:06 AM
To: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
Subject: Re: [Nahuat-l] Names

Hi,

unfortunately there is no online resource available. One has to order that book, but perhaps you will find it in a library in the States or ask the members of "aztlan" at famsi.

Colas, Pierre R.
Sinn und Bedeutung klassischer Maya-Personennamen. Typologische Analyse von Anthropo-nymphrasen in den Hieroglypheninschriften der klassischen Maya-Kultur als Beitrag zur Allgemeinen Onomastik. Acta Mesoamericana, Vol. 15, 2004, xxxv+433pp., cloth, size 21×29,5cm, ISBN 3-931419-11-8, EUR 78,00 (including 25pp. English summary, and database with 2800 entries on CD)

 The link to the publisher:
 http://www.mexicon.de/saurwein.html


There is also one short article (in Spanish) about Maya names in Arqueología Mexicana 2001.

Best,
Stefanie





________________________________
Von: Alec Battles <alec.battles at gmail.com>
An: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
Gesendet: Dienstag, den 5. Oktober 2010, 2:07:59 Uhr
Betreff: Re: [Nahuat-l] Names

I'd also be interested in reading about this. I don't know German, but
Google translate does a remarkably good job of rendering German text
into English. That said, Colas's thesis is not available online, as
far as I can tell. Does anyone know of an online resource
(language-agnostic)?

Alec

On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 1:29 PM, Stefanie Teufel <stefanyteufel at yahoo.de<mailto:stefanyteufel at yahoo.de>> wrote:
> Hi,
> if you looking for the ancient Maya, you can check the doctoral thesis of
> Pierre Colas "Sinn und Bedeutung Klassischer Maya Personennamen"
> (Publisher: Sauerwein).
> But it is in German.
> Best
> Stefanie
>
> ________________________________
> Von: Kier Salmon <k_salmon at ipinc.net<mailto:k_salmon at ipinc.net>>
> An: Nahuat-l ((messages)) <nahuatl at lists.famsi.org<mailto:nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>>
> Gesendet: Montag, den 4. Oktober 2010, 2:04:23 Uhr
> Betreff: [Nahuat-l] Names
>
> Recently I got an inquiry as to how the Mayans made up their names and
> were there rules?
>
> I remember some time ago somebody posted a compilation of female and
> male Nahuatl names from the extant papers.  Would anybody know if a
> similar work has been done for Mayan names and where I could find such
> a resource?
>
> Thank you all for your kind attention.
>
> Kier Salmon
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org<mailto:Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org<mailto:Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>
>

_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org<mailto:Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl

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From alec.battles at gmail.com  Wed Oct  6 20:10:38 2010
From: alec.battles at gmail.com (Alec Battles)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2010 05:10:38 +0900
Subject: How do Nahuatl idioms compare to English idioms? How about
 Chinese idioms? Examples?
Message-ID: <THU.7.OCT.2010.051038.0900.ALEC.BATTLES@GMAIL.COM>

After some Google searching, I wasn't able to find anything about
Nahuatl idioms.

English idioms tend arrive from other linguistic regions, move in, and
make themselves very familiar. I don't know if the French were the
first to say 'that's not my cup of tea,' but a friend has informed me
that this idiom is very French indeed. I love English idioms, and one
of my creative projects is to come up with new ones (for fun, but also
for the free adoption of people involved in imaginative writing).

Chinese idioms are quite different from English idioms. Usually, they
reflect a much older stage of the language. In a way, they are nothing
like English idioms, because their use shows a kind of uncommon
erudition. It would be more likely to encounter Chinese idioms in
print, less likely to encounter them in speech.

Nonetheless, both languages are, in terms of current linguistic
typology, 'analytic.'

I am curious about Nahuatl idioms, classical and modern-dialectical.
Can anyone give me some descriptions or examples of these?

Alec
_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From karttu at comcast.net  Thu Oct  7 14:56:38 2010
From: karttu at comcast.net (Frances Karttunen)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2010 10:56:38 -0400
Subject: How do Nahuatl idioms compare to English idioms? How about
 Chinese idioms? Examples?
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=82FMquKr5QX-gM5AFDHq7rdET5M940zW00Sa_@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <THU.7.OCT.2010.105638.0400.KARTTU@COMCAST.NET>

Part of what you might be looking for are the "metaphors" and the  
"difrasismos" of Nahuatl as recorded in the 16th and 17th centuries.

Among the places to look are at the end of the Florentine Codex,  
book  6, and the end of one of the manuscripts of the Olmos grammar  
reproduced as volume 9 in the series of facsimiles issued by the  
press of the National Autonomous University of Mexico.

For a quick on-line look, you might visit www.mexicolore.co.uk and  
under "Aztec Language" have a look at the essay on "'Diphrases' or  
couplets in Nahuatl."


On Oct 6, 2010, at 4:10 PM, Alec Battles wrote:

> After some Google searching, I wasn't able to find anything about
> Nahuatl idioms.
>
> English idioms tend arrive from other linguistic regions, move in, and
> make themselves very familiar. I don't know if the French were the
> first to say 'that's not my cup of tea,' but a friend has informed me
> that this idiom is very French indeed. I love English idioms, and one
> of my creative projects is to come up with new ones (for fun, but also
> for the free adoption of people involved in imaginative writing).
>
> Chinese idioms are quite different from English idioms. Usually, they
> reflect a much older stage of the language. In a way, they are nothing
> like English idioms, because their use shows a kind of uncommon
> erudition. It would be more likely to encounter Chinese idioms in
> print, less likely to encounter them in speech.
>
> Nonetheless, both languages are, in terms of current linguistic
> typology, 'analytic.'
>
> I am curious about Nahuatl idioms, classical and modern-dialectical.
> Can anyone give me some descriptions or examples of these?
>
> Alec
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl

_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From campbel at indiana.edu  Thu Oct  7 18:53:45 2010
From: campbel at indiana.edu (Campbell, R. Joe)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2010 14:53:45 -0400
Subject: How do Nahuatl idioms compare to English idioms? How about
 Chinese idioms? Examples?
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=82FMquKr5QX-gM5AFDHq7rdET5M940zW00Sa_@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <THU.7.OCT.2010.145345.0400.CAMPBEL@INDIANA.EDU>

Alec,

   I agree with Fran's suggestions on where to look for idioms.  And 
since "difrasismos" are an interesting group of idioms, it is worth 
adding a super-source for them:
  Mercedes Montes de Oca Vega
  Los difrasismos en el Nahuatl del siglo XVI
  Doctoral thesis, UNAM, 2000

*************************

   Another source for idioms is to check with Alonso de Molina.  He 
added the notation "metaphora" (or a variant) to some of his dictionary 
entries.
I include them in a list below.

Joe


*metaphor ***
  aaquia =ima icxi itlan c.  el que no haze caso de sus deudos por estar
    el rico. metaphora. <poss-ma:itl poss-icza-l2 poss-tlan ca4-aqui--
    +z>x +a>i +metaphor>. 71m2-7|

  ahci =ahnonn [scribal error: ??reflexive??: 55m].  biuir en pobreza.
    per metapho.. <ah1-p11-o:n-p54-ahci +metaphor>. 55m-2|

  ahci =tetech n.  echarse con muger. per metapbora<m>  {??printing
    error: metapbora<a> for metaphora<m>}. <poss-tech1 p11-ahci +out.rig
    +metaphor>. 55m-6|

  ahtlapalli =cuitlapilli [scribal error: ??mistaken comma after 'ha' at
    the end of the first line: 55m].  vasallos o gente plebeya. per
    methaporam. <cuitlatl-pilli ahtlapalli +metaphor>. 55m-19|

  ahtlapalli =cuitlapilli.  vasallos o gente plebeya. per metaphoram.
    <cuitlatl-pilli ahtlapalli +metaphor>. 71m1-20|

  ahuia =ahn.  padecer. <ah1-p11-a:huiya +del.y +irony .bbbb +metaphor>.
    55m-15|

  ana notequiuh =nic.  malo estar mucho quasi ala muerte; malo estar
    mucho; quasi a la muerte. <p11-p33-a:na1 poss-tequitl-uh +metaphor>.
    55m-13|

  aqui =comic n [[mic naqui =co |
|per metapho]].  calentura grande
    tener. <co:mitl-co2 p11-aqui +mis_analysis.x +metaphor>. 55m-2|

  aquia =icpaltitlan nitla.  esconder algo. <icpatl-l3-ti1-tlan p11-p51-
    aqui-caus08 +metaphor>. 55m-8|

  aquia =petlatitlan icpaltitlan nitla [[tlaaquia =petlatitlan
    ycpaltitlan ni]].  esconder algo. <petlatl-ti1-tlan icpatl-l3-ti1-
    tlan p11-p51-aqui-caus08 +mis_analysis.4a +metaphor>. 71m1-10|

  aquilli =petlatitlan icpaltitlan tla.  callada cosa que no se diuulga.
    <petlatl-ti1-tlan icpatl-l3-ti1-tlan p51-aqui-caus08=0-l1
    +metaphor>. 55m-2|

  atitlanaquia =nic=onicatitlanaquih.  desperdiciar la hazienda.
    metaphora. <p11-p33-a:tl1-ti1-tlan-aqui-caus08 +metaphor>. 71m2-2|

  atl, tlachinolli.  batalla o guerra. metaphora. <a:tl1 p51-chinahui-
    caus06-l1 +metaphor>. 71m2-2|

  atoctiani =tla.  el que echa algo el rio abaxo, o el que sele cayo
    algo enel rio y lo lleuo la corriente o el que desperdicia y echa a
    perder su hazienda. metaphora. <p51-a:tl1-toca2-caus02-ni1
    +metaphor>. 71m2-19|

  atoctiliztli =tla.  el acto de echar algo el rio abaxo assi, o de
    desperdiciar alguno la hazienda  (assi is el que echa algo el rio
    abaxo, o el que sele cayo algo enel rio y lo lleuo la corriente o el
    que desperdicia y echa a perder su hazienda. metaphora). <p51-a:tl1-
    toca2-caus02-liz +metaphor>. 71m2-19|

  atoctilli =tla.  cosa echada assi enel rio. &c. o cosa ahogada en rio
    (assi is el que echa algo el rio abaxo, o el que sele cayo algo enel
    rio y lo lleuo la corriente o el que desperdicia y echa a perder su
    hazienda. metaphora). <p51-a:tl1-toca2-caus02-l1 +metaphor>. 71m2-
    19|

  atoyahualiztli =ne.  cayda en gran delito. per metaphoram. <p53-a:tl1-
    toya:hui-caus09-liz +metaphor>. 55m-2|

  atoyahuia =nin.  caer en gran delito.; caer en^graue delicto. <p11-p54-
    a:tl1-toya:hui-l2-v05b +metaphor>. 55m-2|

  atoyahuiani =mo.  caydo assi  (assi is cayda en gran delito. per
    metaphoram); el que cayo en gran delicto. metaphora. <p54-a:tl1-
    toya:hui-l2-v05b-ni1 +metaphor>. 55m-2|

  atoyahuiliztli =ne.  cayda en graue delicto. <p53-a:tl1-toya:hui-l2-
    v05b-liz +metaphor>. 71m1-4|

  axcahuia =ahnic.  adquirir con trabajo lo necessario ala vida. dizen
    per metaphoram. <ah1-p11-p33-a:xca:itl-v05b +metaphor>. 55m-00|

  cacauhtoc =nocon.  malo estar mucho quasi ala muerte; malo estar
    mucho; quasi a la muerte. <p11-p33-o:n-dupl-ca:hui-caus09-prt1-ti1-o-
    prt2 aux13 +metaphor>. 55m-13|

  cactoc.  destruir los yerros del pueblo, per metaphoram. <caqui2-prt1-
    ti1-o-prt2 aux13 +metaphor>. 55m-6|

  cahualiztlamati =ahtleh qui.  escasso; guardador escasso; mezquino;
    miserable escasso. <ah1-tleh p33-ca:hui-caus09-liz-p51-mati
    +metaphor>. 55m-8|

  calaqui =contzalan xopetlatitlan ni.  encubrirse; esconderse. <co:mitl-
    tza:lan xotl1-petlatl-ti1-tlan p11-calaqui +metaphor>. 55m-7|

  calaqui =xopetlatitlan ni=xopetlatitlan onicalac.  esconderse.
    metaphora. <xotl1-petlatl-ti1-tlan p11-calaqui +metaphor>. 71m2-27|

  calaquia =icpaltitlan nitla [scribal error: ??this has the
    "icpaltitlan" part of the difrasismo, but not the "petlatitlan"
    part: 71m1].  esconder algo. <icpatl-l3-ti1-tlan p11-p51-calaqui-
    caus08 +metaphor>. 71m1-10|

  caltech =xomolco.  a^escondidadas; escondidamente. <xomolli-co1 calli-
    tech1 +metaphor>. 71m1-1|

  caltech nemini =xomolco.  mostrenco. metaphora. <xomolli-co1 calli-
    tech1 nemi-ni1 +metaphor>. 71m2-27|

  caltechtli nicnotoctia =xomolli.  esconderse. <xomolli calli-tech1-tl
    p11-p33-p54-toca2-caus02 +metaphor>. 55m-8|

  caltechtli nicnotoctia =xomolli=xomolli caltechtli onicnotoctih
    [scribal error: ??why nicno-?  why not nino-?: 71m2].  esconderse.
    metaphora. <xomolli calli-tech1-tl p11-p33-p54-toca2-caus02
    +metaphor>. 71m2-27|

  caltititech ninopipiloa =teyollo.  emmendar castigando. <poss-yo:lli-
    yo:tl1 calli--ti1-tech1 p11-p54-dupl-piloa: +ly>ll +metaphor>. 55m-
    7|

  cecemohtli.  persona de mala fama. metaphora. <dupl-cem-ohtli
    +metaphor>. 71m2-3|

  cecepahtic.  cosa muy fria. et per metaphoram. cosa muy espantable.
    <dupl-ce:tl-pah4-tic +metaphor>. 71m2-3|

  cemilhuitica =i [scribal error: ??this should not be split: 71m1].
    vasallos o gente plebeya. per metaphoram. <+metaphor>. 71m1-20|

  cemilhuitica iomilhuitica =i [scribal error: ??period after
    ycemilhuitica: 55m].  vasallos o gente plebeya. per methaporam.
    <+metaphor>. 55m-19|

  cemixca =ni.  noticia dar a alguno delo que le a de acaecer
    auisandole,  per metaphoram; noticia dar a alguno de lo que le a^de
    acaecer; auisandole. <+metaphor +prob>. 55m-14|

  chalchihuitl =oc.  es aun donzella y virgen. metaphora. <oc
    cha:lchihuitl +metaphor>. 71m2-13|

  chichinaca =ni.  padecer. <p11-chichinaca .bbbb +metaphor>. 55m-15|

  chimalli =mitl.  guerra; o batalla. metaphora. <mi:tl chi:malli
    +metaphor>. 55m-10|

  chinolli teoatl =tla.  guerra o batalla. metaphora. <p51-chinahui-
    caus06-l1 -- +prob +metaphor>. 71m2-20|

  ciahui =qui.  adquirir con trabajo lo necessario ala vida. dizen per
    metaphoram. <p33-ciahui1 +metaphor>. 55m-00|

  cochi =itlan ni.  echarse con muger. per metapbora<m>  {??printing
    error: metapbora<a> for metaphora<m>}. <poss-tlan p11-cochi +out.rig
    +metaphor>. 55m-6|

  cocoliztli =motonallan tlamachtia in.  despoblarse el pueblo por
    pestilencia o guerra. <+metaphor>. 71m1-8|

  comic =iuhqui.  hazer calor. <ihui-prt1-c2 co:mitl-co2 +metaphor>. 55m-
    11|

  comic =iuhquin [scribal error: ??printing error: comma instead of
    period; m5 and m2 have "iuhquin comic" and "iuhquin temazcalco" as
    separate items: 71m1].  hazer calor. <ihui-prt1-c2-in co:mitl-co2
    +metaphor>. 71m1-12|

  cotonililli iaztauh imecaxicol =tla.  horro o horra de esclauo. <p51-
    coto:ni-ben-l1 poss-a:ztatl-uh poss-mecatl-xico:lli +metaphor>. 55m-
    11|

  cotontlani =ahmo.  escasso; guardador escasso; mezquino; miserable
    escasso. <ah1-p54-coto:ni-l2-tlani3 +metaphor>. 71m1-10|

  cotontlani =ahnino.  auaricia tener. <ah1-p11-p54-coto:ni-l2-tlani3
    +metaphor>. 55m-1|

  cozcahuan =te.  hijos y hijas. <poss-co:zcatl-plur04 +kin +metaphor>.
    55m-11|

  cozcahuan tequetzalhuan =te [scribal error: ??there is a period
    between tecuzcauan tequetzalhuan, indicating that they might be
    separate elements: 71m1].  hijos y hijas. <poss-co:zcatl-plur04 poss-
    quetzalli-plur04 +kin +metaphor>. 71m1-13|

  cozcahuan tequetzalhuan =te.  hijos o hijas. metaphora. <poss-co:zcatl-
    plur04 poss-quetzalli-plur04 +kin +metaphor>. 71m2-16|

  cozcateuh ipan nimitzmati =quetzalteuh.  tener gran amor el padre al
    hijo. metaphora. <quetzalli-teuh co:zcatl-teuh poss-pan p11-p32-mati
    +kin +metaphor>. 71m2-15|

  cozcatl.  hijos y hijas. <co:zcatl +kin +metaphor>. 55m-11|

  cozolco nonoc =cuahuic.  ni¤ear hazer cosas de ni¤os. <cuahuitl-co2
    co:zolli-co1 p11-o:n-o-prt2 +metaphor>. 55m-14|

  cua =notzontecon nelchiquiuh nic.  biuir de mi sudor y trabajo, o
    ganar sueldo. metaphora. <poss-tzontli-tecomatl poss-e:lli-
    chiquihuitl-uh p11-p33-cua: +dif +metaphor>. 71m2-13|

  cuacecelic.   <lo mesmo es que cuacecelicapil>. <cua:itl-dupl-celiya-
    c1 +metaphor>. 71m2-14|

  cuacecelicapil.  mancebillo que aun no tiene cerrada la mollera, y
    metaphoricamente se dize del que tiene poca experiencia delas cosas.
    <cua:itl-dupl-celiya--ca:5-pilli +metaphor>. 71m2-14|

  cuacuamecatlatla =ni=onicuacuamecatlatlac.  desatinarme o
    enloquecerme. metaphora. <p11-dupl-cua:itl-mecatl-tletl2-v08b
    +metaphor>. 71m2-14|

  cuahtzontli nicteca =xiyotl.  dar buen exemplo; edificar a otros
    dandoles buen exemplo. <xiyo:tl cua:itl-ihtzoma-l2 p11-p33-te:ca
    +metaphor>. 55m-4|

  cuahuitl =tetl.  dolencia; enfermedad; enfermedad o castigo.
    metaphora. <tetl1 cuahuitl +metaphor>. 55m-6|

  cuani =te.  cruel persona. <p52-cua:-ni1 +metaphor>. 55m-4|

  cuapapatztic.   <lo mesmo es que cuacecelicapil>. <cua:itl-dupl-
    pa:tztli-tic +metaphor>. 71m2-14|

  cuatzontli nicteca =xiotl.  dar buen exemplo. metaphora. <xiyo:tl
    cua:itl-tzontli p11-p33-te:ca +metaphor>. 71m2-27|

  cuauhticanemi =quilticanemi [scribal error: ??period after
    quilticanemi: 55m].  vasallos o gente plebeya. per methaporam.
    <+prob +metaphor>. 55m-19|

  cuauhticanemi =quilticanemi [scribal error: ??period after
    quilticanemi: 71m1].  vasallos o gente plebeya. per metaphoram.
    <quilitl-ti1-ca2 cuahuitl-ti1-ca2-nemi +metaphor>. 71m1-20|

  cuazacamoa =nite=onitecuazacamoh.  messar a otro. metaphora. <p11-p52-
    cua:itl-zacatl-moa: +metaphor>. 71m2-14|

  cuetzpal.  gloton; tragon. <cuetzpalin-trunc +metaphor>. 55m-10|

  cuexanco nomamalhuazco yelohuatiuh =no.  gouernar. <poss-cuexa:ntli-
    co1 poss-ma:ma:-l1-hua:ztli-co1 ca:1b-lo:2-hua2-ti1-yauh2 aux14b
    +metaphor>. 55m-10|

  cuexanco nomamalhuazco yeloatiuh =no.  tener el cargo de regir y
    gouernar alos otros. metaphora. <poss-cuexa:ntli-co1 poss-ma:ma:-l1-
    hua:ztli-co1 ca:1b-lo:2-hua2-ti1-yauh2  aux14b +metaphor>. 71m2-12|

  cui =nic.  echarse con muger. per metapbora<m>  {??printing error:
    metapbora<a> for metaphora<m>}. <p11-p33-cui +metaphor>. 55m-6|

  cuiltonoani =mo.  rico. per metaphora. el que se goza mucho. <p54-
    cuilto:noa:-ni1 +metaphor>. 71m2-10|

  cuitlapan notepotzco yeloac =no.  gouernar; tener el cargo de regir y
    gouernar alos otros. metaphora. <poss-cuitlatl-pan poss-tepotztli-
    co1 ca:1b-lo:2-hua2-prt2 +dif +metaphor>. 55m-10|

  cuitlatlaza =nite.  librar de seruidumbre. per metaphoram; librar de
    seruidumbre. <p11-p52-cuitlatl-tla:za +metaphor>. 55m-12|

  eecatl =temoxtli.  dolencia; enfermedad. <te:mo:xtli dupl-e:catl
    +metaphor>. 55m-6|

  ehuatinemi =ahnon.  biuir en pobreza. per metapho.. <ah1-p11-o:n-e:hua-
    ti1-nemi aux01 +metaphor>. 55m-2|

  ehuatinemi =ahtleh non [scribal error: ??01|
printing error:
    atlenoueuatinemi for atlenoneuatinemi; m1 has atle noneuatinemi; m2
    has atle noneuatinemi: 55m].  biuir en pobreza. per metapho.. <ah1-
    tleh p11-o:n-e:hua-ti1-nemi aux01 +metaphor>. 55m-2|

  ezo, itlapallo, iohxio =i.  mayorazgo hijo de algun se¤or. metaphora.
    <poss-eztli-yo:tl1 poss-p51-pa:3-l1-yo:tl1 poss-ohza-l2-yo:tl1 +dif
    +kin +ly>ll +zy>z +a>i +metaphor>. 71m2-6|

  eztli =tlapalli.  nobleza de sangre y de linage. metaphora. <p51-pa:3-
    l1 eztli +metaphor>. 71m2-22|

  ezzo =te.  generoso de buen linage  {+mis-print: bueu for buen};
    generoso de buen linage. <poss-eztli-yo:tl1 +kin +zy>zz +metaphor>.
    55m-10|

  huellamati =ahni.  padecer. <ah1-p11-huel1-p51-mati +fusion +ltl>ll
    +irony .bbbb +metaphor>. 55m-15|

  huic temecapal =te.  esclauo de alguno. metaphora. <poss-huictli poss-
    mecatl-palli +dif +metaphor>. 71m2-19|

  huica =tlanahuac nitla.  destruir los yerros del pueblo, per
    metaphoram. <poss-na:huatl-co2 p11-p51-hui:ca +metaphor>. 55m-6|

  huicaltia =ninote=oninotehuicaltih  [[teuicaltia
    =nino=oninoteuicalti]].  seguir, o imitar al vulgo, haziendo loque
    los otros hazen. metaphora. o hazer y procurar que otros me lleuen
    consigo ensu compa¤ia. <p11-p54-p52-hui:ca-caus01 +ambig
    +mis_analysis. +metaphor>. 71m2-19|

  huilana =nino.  ni¤ear hazer cosas de ni¤os. <p11-p54-huila:na
    +metaphor>. 55m-14|

  ic nonoc =ye.  malo estar mucho quasi ala muerte; malo estar mucho;
    quasi a la muerte. <ye1 i:c1 p11-o:n-o-prt2 +metaphor>. 55m-13|

  icpalpan nica =petlapan.  gouernar; tener officio de regir y gouernar.
    metaphora. <petlatl-pan icpatl-l3-pan p11-ca:1a +metaphor>. 55m-10|

  icpaltitlan nitlaaquia =petlatitlan.  encubrir o dissimular culpa de
    otro. per metaphoram; esconder algo; encubrir o dissimular culpa de
    otro; encubrir delicto de otro. metaphora. <petlatl-ti1-tlan icpatl-
    l3-ti1-tlan p11-p51-aqui-caus08 +metaphor>. 55m-7|

  icpaltitlan nitlatlapachoa =petlatitlan.  encubrir culpa de otro.
    metaphora. <petlatl-ti1-tlan icpatl-l3-ti1-tlan p11-p51-p51-pachihui-
    caus06 +metaphor>. 71m2-14|

  icpaltitlan tlaaquini =petlatitlan.  encubridor tal  (tal is encubrir
    o dissimular culpa de otro. per metaphoram). <petlatl-ti1-tlan
    icpatl-l3-ti1-tlan p51-aqui-caus08=0-ni1 +metaphor>. 55m-7|

  icpaltitlan tlaaquiliztli =petlatitlan.  encubrimiento assi  (assi is
    encubierta culpa). <petlatl-ti1-tlan icpatl-l3-ti1-tlan p51-aqui-
    caus08=0-liz +metaphor>. 55m-7|

  icpaltitlan tlaaquilli =petlatitlan.  encubierta culpa. <petlatl-ti1-
    tlan icpatl-l3-ti1-tlan p51-aqui-caus08=0-l1 +metaphor>. 71m1-10|

  icpaltitlan tlaaquiani =petlatitlan.  encubridor tal  (tal is encubrir
    o dissimular culpa de otro). <petlatl-ti1-tlan icpatl-l3-ti1-tlan
    p51-aqui-caus08-ni1 +metaphor>. 71m1-10|

  icpaltitlan tlaaquiliztli =petlatitlan.  encubrimiento assi  (assi is
    encubrir o dissimular culpa de otro); encubrimiento tal  (tal is
    encubrir delicto de otro. metaphora). <petlatl-ti1-tlan icpatl-l3-
    ti1-tlan p51-aqui-caus08=0-liz +metaphor>. 71m1-10|

  icpaltitlan tlaaquilli =petlatitlan.  delicto encubierto assi  (assi
    is encubrir delicto de otro. metaphora). <petlatl-ti1-tlan icpatl-l3-
    ti1-tlan p51-aqui-caus08=0-l1 +metaphor>. 71m2-14|

  icpaltitlan tlaaquini =petlatitlan.  encubridor tal  (tal is encubrir
    delicto de otro. metaphora). <petlatl-ti1-tlan icpatl-l3-ti1-tlan
    p51-aqui-caus08=0-ni1 +metaphor>. 71m2-14|

  icximimictia =ahtleh nech=atleh onechicximimictih.  ninguna cosa me
    impide o estorua. metaphora. <ah1-tleh p31-icza-l2-dupl-miqui-caus02
    +z>x +a>i +metaphor>. 71m2-2|

  ihhuitl nicchihua =tizatl.  auisar a alguno con piedad para que biua
    como a de biuir por  que no le suceda algun mal. per metaphoram.
    <ti:zatl ihhuitl p11-p33-chi:hua +metaphor>. 55m-20|

  ihhuitl nicchihua =tizatl=tizatl ihhuitl onicchiuh.  dar a otro buen
    consejo y auiso, o dar buen exemplo. metaphora. <ti:zatl ihhuitl p11-
    p33-chi:hua +metaphor>. 71m2-19|

  ihhuitl nictlalia =tizatl.  auisar a alguno con piedad para que biua
    como a de biuir por  que no le suceda algun mal. per metaphoram.
    <ti:zatl ihhuitl p11-p33-tla:lia: +metaphor>. 55m-20|

  ihhuitl nictlalia =tizatl=tizatl ihhuitl onictlalih.  dar a otro buen
    consejo y auiso, o dar buen exemplo. metaphora. <ti:zatl ihhuitl p11-
    p33-tla:lia: +metaphor>. 71m2-19|

  ihiohuia =qu [scribal error: ??is this part of the following item?:
    55m].  adquirir con trabajo lo necessario ala vida. dizen per
    metaphoram. <p33-ihi:yo:tl-v05b +metaphor>. 55m-00|

  ihioquiza =n=onihioquiz.  bahear, et per metaphora, mandar alguna
    cosa. <p11-ihi:yo:tl-qui:za +metaphor>. 71m2-6|

  ihtexihui.  gloton; tragon. <ihtitl-ixhui +i>e +metaphor>. 71m1-12|

  ihtexihui =huel.  gloton. <huel1 ihtitl-ixhui +metaphor>. 55m-10|

  ihtic =huehcatlan.  callado que guarda secreto. <huehca-tlan poss-
    ihtitl-co2 +metaphor>. 55m-2|

  ihtixihui.  gloton; tragon. <ihtitl-ixhui +metaphor>. 55m-10|

  ihtlacollaza =nitetla.  librar de seruidumbre. <p11-p52-p51-ihtlacahui-
    caus06-l1-tla:za +ltl>ll +metaphor>. 71m1-14|

  ihuinti cuahuitl ihuinti ic timochihuaz =iuhquimma tetl.  seras assi
    como el que toma palos o piedras para se matar. i. haras mucho mal a
    ti mismo. metaphora. <ihui-prt1-c2-in-mah3 tetl1 ihuinti cuahuitl
    ihuinti i:c1 p12-p54-chi:hua-z +metaphor>. 71m2-8|

  ihuintia =nitla.  dar mal exemplo; destruir el pueblo con mal exemplo;
    per metaphoram; escandalizar; exemplo malo dar. <p11-p51-ihuinti-
    caus08 +metaphor>. 55m-4|

  ihuintia =nitla=onitlaihuintih.  dar mal exemplo. metaphora. <p11-p51-
    ihuinti-caus08 +metaphor>. 71m2-8|

  ihzoloh =te.  cosa que ensuzia. metaphora. <p52-ihzolli-v03a-caus06-
    prt1 +metaphor>. 71m2-16|

  ilacatzohtinemi =teuhtli tlazolli ic nin.  biuir en pecados. <teuhtli
    tlazo:lli i:c1 p11-p54-ilacatztli-v03a-caus06-prt1-ti1-nemi aux01
    +metaphor>. 71m1-4|

  itqui =nite.  gouernar. <p11-p52-itqui +metaphor>. 55m-10|

  itqui =nite=oniteitquic.  regir, o gouernar a otros. metaphora. <p11-
    p52-itqui +metaphor>. 71m2-8|

  ittitia =tlayohualli nicno.  esconderse. <tla6-yohua-l1 p11-p33-p54-
    itta1-caus02 +metaphor>. 71m1-10|

  ittitia tocommonamictia in atlauhtli =iccemayan mixcoyan monehuian
    tocomo.  de tu voluntad y con toda determinacion te echas a perder,
    metaphora. <i:c1-cem-mani-ya:n poss-i:xtli-co1-ya:n poss-nehuiyan
    p12-o:n-p54-itta1- caus03 p12-o:n-p54-na:miqui-caus02 in a:tlauhtli
    +metaphor>. 71m2-6|

  ix =te.  mensajero. <poss-i:xtli +dif +metaphor>. 71m1-15|

  ix tenacaz =te.  embaxador, o mensajero. metaphora; mensajero. <poss-
    i:xtli poss-nacaztli +metaphor>. 71m2-16|

  ixcahua =ahtleh niqu.  auaricia tener. <ah1-tleh p11-p33-i:xtli-ca:hui-
    caus09 +metaphor>. 55m-1|

  ixcahua =ahtleh qu.  escasso; guardador escasso; mezquino; miserable
    escasso. <ah1-tleh p33-i:xtli-ca:hui-caus09 +metaphor>. 71m1-10|

  ixcuamol =itentzon.  mi nieto o bisnieto. metaphora. <poss-te:ntli-
    tzontli poss-i:xtli-cua:itl-molli2 +kin +metaphor>. 71m2-7|

  ixcuamol =te.  generoso de buen linage  {+mis-print: bueu for buen};
    generoso de buen linage; noble de linaje. metaphora. <poss-i:xtli-
    cua:itl-molli2 +kin +metaphor>. 55m-10|

  izte =te.  generoso de buen linage  {+mis-print: bueu for buen};
    generoso de buen linage. <poss-iztitl +i>e +kin +metaphor>. 55m-10|

  iztlactli =tencualactli,.  enga¤o o mentira. metaphora. <te:ntli-
    cualactli iztlactli +metaphor>. 71m2-17|

  machitia ¬ nimitzno.  encomendar su necessidad al mayor, per
    metaphoram. <+metaphor>. 55m-7|

  machitia =atihuitztzo atahhuayo ipan nimitzno.  encomendar su
    necessidad al mayor, per metaphoram. <+tzy>tztz +t>ch +metaphor>.
    55m-7|

  machitia =atihuitzo atahhuayo ipan nimitzno.  encomendar mi
    necessidad^al que me puede socorrer enella, catandole primero la
    beniuolencia. metaphora. <--huitztli-yo:tl1---ahhuatl2-poss-pan-p54-
    mati-caus02-ben +t>ch +tzy>tzy +metaphor>. 71m2-2|

  machtia =atihuitztzo atahhuayo ipan nimitzno.  encomendar su necesidad
    al mayor, per metaphoram, dizen. <+tzy>tztz +t>ch +metaphor>. 71m1-
    9|

  mama =nite.  gouernar. <p11-p52-ma:ma: +metaphor>. 55m-10|

  mamaloni =itconi [scribal error: ??period after ytconi: 55m].
    vasallos o gente plebeya. per methaporam. <itqui-lo:1-ni1 ma:ma:-
    lo:1-ni1 +dif +metaphor>. 55m-19|

  mamaloni =itconi.  vasallos o gente plebeya. per metaphoram. <itqui-
    lo:1-ni1 ma:ma:-lo:1-ni1 +metaphor>. 71m1-20|

  mamaloyan =to.  corte, o audiencia real. metaphora. <poss-ma:ma:-lo:1-
    ya:n +metaphor>. 71m2-25|

  mati =cococ teopouhqui nic.  padecer. <cocoya-delya-c1 teo:tl-po:hua2-
    prt1-c2 p11-p33-mati +metaphor>. 55m-15|

  matzoa =ic nitla [[tlamatzoa =yc ni]].  noticia dar a alguno delo que
    le a de acaecer auisandole,  per metaphoram. <i:c1 p11-p51-ma:itl-
    tzoa +mis_analysis.4 +out.rig +metaphor>. 55m-14|

  matzoa =ic nitla [[tlamatzoa =icni]].  noticia dar a alguno de lo que
    le a^de acaecer, auisandole. <i:c1 p11-p51-ma:itl-tzoa
    +mis_analysis.4a +prob +out.rig +metaphor>. 71m1-16|

  mictia =nino.  escoger lo mejor. <p11-p54-miqui-caus02 +metaphor>. 55m-
    8|

  mimiloa innonetlacuil =mo.  ganar conla hazienda que se da alogro.
    metaphora. <p54-mimilli-v03a-caus06 in poss-p53-p51-cui-l1
    +metaphor>. 71m2-10|

  nacaz =te.  embaxador, o mensajero de grandes. metaphora; mensajero.
    <poss-nacaztli +metaphor>. 71m2-17|

  nahuatilmah =ahnino.  ahincar importunando. <ah1-p11-p54-na:huatl-v04-
    l1-mati-prt1 +t>h +metaphor>. 55m-00|

  namiqui =ahnonno.  biuir en pobreza. per metapho.. <ah1-p11-o:n-p54-
    na:miqui +metaphor>. 55m-2|

  nanahuatia =nite.  aconsejar. <p11-p52-dupl-na:huatl-v04-ben
    +metaphor>. 71m1-1|

  necini icochca ineuhca =in ahhual.  vasallos o gente plebeya. per
    methaporam; vasallos o gente plebeya. per metaphoram. <in ah1-hua:l-
    ne:ci-ni1 poss-cochi-prt1-ca:5 poss-p53-e:hua-prt1-ca:5 +phrase.poss
    +metaphor>. 55m-19|

  nepanoa =nite.  echarse con muger. per metapbora<m>  {??printing
    error: metapbora<a> for metaphora<m>}. <p11-p52-poss-pan-v03a-caus06
    +post.as.noun.1 +metaphor>. 55m-6|

  ohquechia =nite.  dar buen exemplo; dar mal exemplo; edificar a otros
    dandoles buen exemplo; escandalizar; exemplo malo dar. <p11-p52-
    ohtli-quetza-ben +tz>ch +metaphor>. 55m-4|

  omilhuitica =i [scribal error: ??this should not be split: 71m1].
    vasallos o gente plebeya. per metaphoram. <+metaphor>. 71m1-20|

  onoc =cuahuic cozolco n.  ni¤ear hazer cosas de ni¤os. <cuahuitl-co2
    co:zolli-co1 p11-o:n-o-prt2 +metaphor>. 71m1-16|

  oquichhuia =nic.  adquirir con trabajo lo necessario ala vida. dizen
    per metaphoram. <p11-p33-oquichtli-v05b +metaphor>. 55m-00|

  pachoa =atl cecec tzitzicaztli tetech nic.  emmendar castigando.
    <a:tl1 dupl-ce:tl-v01b-delya-c1 tzi:tzica:ztli poss-tech1 p11-p33-
    pachihui-caus06 +out.rig +metaphor>. 71m1-9|

  papactli =tla.  horro o horra de esclauo. <p51-dupl-pa:ca-l2
    +metaphor>. 55m-11|

  pehuilmah =ahnino.  ahincar importunando. <+t>h +metaphor>. 55m-00|

  petlatitlan nicalaqui =xomolco=xomolco petlatitlan onicalac.
    esconderse. metaphora. <xomolli-co1 petlatl-ti1-tlan p11-calaqui
    +metaphor>. 71m2-27|

  pilcatinemi =teixtla ni.  ahincar importunando. <poss-i:xtli-tlan
    piloa:-ca13-ti1-nemi aux01 +del.n +metaphor>. 55m-00|

  pilcatinemi =teixtlan ni.  ahincar importunando. <poss-i:xtli-tlan p11-
    piloa:-ca13-ti1-nemi aux01 +metaphor>. 71m1-1|

  piloa =tenacaztitech nino=tenacaztitech oninopiloh.  asirse delas
    orejas de alguno, o reprehender y corregir a otro. metaphora. <poss-
    nacaztli-ti1-tech1 p11-p54-piloa: +metaphor>. 71m2-17|

  piloani =ahmo mo.  ynobediente por ser soberuio y presumptuoso, per
    metapho.; ynobediente; rebelde y presumptuoso. <ah1-mo: p54-piloa:-
    ni1 +metaphor>. 55m-12|

  pilollani =ahmo mo.  ynobediente, rebelde y presumptuoso. <+prob
    +metaphor>. 71m1-13|

  pinotiliztli.  encogimiento del que es empachoso y vergonzoso.
    metaphora. <pino:tl-v01a-liz +metaphor>. 71m2-14|

  pinoyotl.  encogimiento de persona empachosa y vergonzosa. metaphora.
    <pino:tl-yo:tl1 +metaphor>. 71m2-14|

  pipiloa =teyollocaltitech nino.  emmendar castigando. <p52-yo:lli-
    yo:tl1-calli-ti1-tech1 p11-p54-dupl-piloa: +ly>ll +metaphor>. 71m1-
    9|

  pocmictia =nitla=onitlapocmictih.  dar pena y enojo a otros.
    metaphora. <p11-p51-po:ca-l2-miqui-caus02 +metaphor>. 71m2-14|

  quequetza =nino.  ni¤ear hazer cosas de ni¤os. <p11-p54-dupl-quetza
    +metaphor>. 55m-14|

  quetzalhuan =te.  hijos y hijas; hijos o hijas de caualleros.
    metaphora. <poss-quetzalli-plur04 +kin +metaphor>. 55m-11|

  quetzalli =cozcatl.  hijos y hijas; hijos o hijas. metaphora.
    <co:zcatl quetzalli +kin +metaphor>. 71m1-13|

  quiahuacpa nitlahtoa =no=noquiahuacpa onitlatoh.  encubrir alos otros
    lo que tiene enel secreto de su corazon, o el intento que tiene.
    metaphora. <poss-quiya:huatl-co2-pa1 p11-p51-ihtahui-caus06
    +metaphor>. 71m2-13|

  tapalcamahuiltia =ni.  ni¤ear hazer cosas de ni¤os. <p11-tapalcatl-p54-
    a:huiya-delya-l1-v04-caus08 +ambig +metaphor>. 55m-14|

  teca =cococ teopouhqui notech mo.  padecer. <cocoya-delya-c1 teo:tl-
    po:hua2-prt1-c2 poss-tech1 p54-te:ca +out.rig +metaphor .bbbb>. 55m-
    15|

  teca =nite.  echarse con muger. per metapbora<m>  {??printing error:
    metapbora<a> for metaphora<m>}. <p11-p52-te:ca +metaphor>. 55m-6|

  teca =tlanahuac nitla.  destruir los yerros del pueblo, per
    metaphoram. <poss-na:huatl-co2 p11-p51-te:ca +metaphor>. 55m-6|

  tecaqueh =ic onech.  malo estar mucho quasi ala muerte; malo estar
    mucho; quasi a la muerte. <i:c1 o:-p31-te:ca-plur01 +metaphor
    +out.rig>. 55m-13|

  tech monequi =ahtleh no.  biuir en pobreza. per metapho.. <ah1-tleh
    poss-tech1 p54-nequi +out.rig +irony +metaphor>. 55m-2|

  tech nahci =te.  ayuntarse carnalmente a muger. <poss-tech1 p11-ahci
    +out.rig +metaphor>. 55m-00|

  tecuiniz =iuhquin ye ni.  calentura grande tener. <ihui-prt1-c2-in ye1
    p11-tecui:ni-z +metaphor>. 55m-2|

  temazcalco =iuhquin.  hazer calor. <ihui-prt1-c2-in tema-lizc-calli-
    co1 +metaphor>. 55m-11|

  temazcalco =iuhquin [scribal error: ??printing error: comma instead of
    period; m5 and m2 have "iuhquin comic" and "iuhquin temazcalco" as
    separate items: 71m1].  hazer calor. <ihui-prt1-c2-in tema-lizc-
    calli-co1 +metaphor>. 71m1-12|

  tentzon =te.  generoso de buen linage  {+mis-print: bueu for buen};
    generoso de buen linage. <poss-te:ntli-tzontli +kin +metaphor>. 55m-
    10|

  teopouhqui nicmati =cococ.  padecer. <cocoya-delya-c1 teo:tl-po:hua2-
    prt1-c2 p11-p33-mati .bbbb +metaphor>. 71m1-16|

  teopouhqui notech moteca =cococ.  padecer. <cocoya-delya-c1 teo:tl-
    po:hua2-prt1-c2 poss-tech1 p54-te:ca +out.rig .bbbb +metaphor>. 71m1-
    16|

  tepexihuia =nino.  caer en gran delito.; caer en^graue delicto. <p11-
    p54-tepexitl-v05b +metaphor>. 55m-2|

  tepexihuiani =mo.  caydo assi  (assi is cayda en gran delito. per
    metaphoram); despe¤ado; o el que cometio algun crimen graue.
    metaphora. <p54-tepexitl-v05b-ni1 +metaphor>. 55m-2|

  tepexihuiliztli =ne.  cayda en gran delito. per metaphoram; cayda en
    graue delicto. <p53-tepexitl-v05b-liz +metaphor>. 55m-2|

  tequililli iauh imetl, imalac itzotzopaz =tla.  horro o horra de
    esclauo. <p51-tequi1-ben-l1 poss-a:tl1-uh poss-metlatl poss-malacatl
    poss-tzo:tzopa:ztli +dif +metaphor>. 71m1-13|

  tequililli iauh imetl imalac itzotzopaz =tla.  muger horra que fue
    antes esclaua. metaphora. <p51-tequi1-ben-l1 poss-a:tl1-uh poss-
    metlatl poss-malacatl poss-tzo:tzopa:ztli +metaphor>. 71m2-23|

  tequililli ihuic imecapal =tla.  horro o horra de esclauo; horro.
    metaphora. <p51-tequi1-ben-l1 poss-huictli poss-mecatl-palli +dif
    +metaphor>. 71m1-13|

  teteca Êctoc nic.  destruir los yerros del pueblo, per metaphoram.
    <caqui2-prt1-ti1-o-prt2 aux13 p11-p33-dupl-te:ca +metaphor>. 55m-6|

  tlacaahuiloa immoyollotzin =nic.  encomendar su necessidad al mayor,
    per metaphoram. <p11-p33-tla:catl-a:huiya-delya-l1-v03a-caus06 in
    poss-yo:lli-yo:tl1-tzin +ly>ll +metaphor>. 55m-7|

  tlacaahuiloa immoyollotzin ac nimitznomachtia =nictla.  encomendar su
    necesidad al mayor, per metaphoram, dizen. <+metaphor>. 71m1-9|

  tlachinolli =atl.  guerra. <a:tl1 p51-chinahui-caus06-l1 +metaphor>.
    55m-10|

  tlachinolli =teoatl.  guerra. <teo:tl-a:tl1 p51-chinahui-caus06-l1
    +metaphor>. 55m-10|

  tlahpaliuhcahuia =nitla.  adquirir con trabajo lo necessario ala vida.
    dizen per metaphoram. <p11-p51-tlahpalli-v03a-prt1-ca:5-v05b
    +metaphor>. 55m-00|

  tlahtlacollaza =nite.  librar de seruidumbre. per metaphoram. <p11-p52-
    p51-ihtlacahui-caus06-l1-tla:za +ltl>ll +metaphor>. 55m-12|

  tlahuelilocaaquilia =nitla.  destruir el pueblo con mal exemplo, per
    metaphoram. <p11-p51-tlahue:lli-v13-lo:1-ca:6-aqui-ben +metaphor>.
    55m-6|

  tlahuelilocacuitia =nitla.  destruir el pueblo con mal exemplo, per
    metaphoram. <p11-p51-tlahue:lli-v13-lo:1-ca:6-cui-caus02 +metaphor>.
    55m-6|

  tlahuelilocamaca =nitla.  destruir el pueblo con mal exemplo, per
    metaphoram. <p11-p51-tlahue:lli-v13-lo:1-ca:6-maca +metaphor>. 55m-
    6|

  tlahuelilocatilia =nitla.  destruir el pueblo con mal exemplo, per
    metaphoram. <p11-p51-tlahue:lli-v13-lo:1-ca:5-v01a-caus04
    +metaphor>. 55m-6|

  tlalmahuiltia =ni.  ni¤ear hazer cosas de ni¤os. <p11-tla:lli-p54-
    a:huiya-delya-l1-v04-caus08 +ambig +metaphor>. 55m-14|

  tlalmahuiltia =ni=onitlalmahuiltih.  jugar el ni¤o conla tierra,
    haziendo montocillos della. &c. y tomase metaphorice. por hazer
    ni¤erias, locuras y necedades el hombre insipiente. <p11-tla:lli-p54-
    a:huiya-delya-l1-v04-caus08 +ambig +metaphor>. 71m2-21|

  tlalmahuiltiani.  elque assi juega conla tierra. &c  (assi is jugar el
    ni¤o conla tierra, haziendo montocillos della. &c. y tomase
    metaphorice. por hazer ni¤erias, locuras y necedades el hombre
    insipiente). <tla:lli-p54-a:huiya-delya-l1-v04-caus08-ni1 +ambig
    +metaphor>. 71m2-21|

  tlalmahuiltihqui.  el ni¤o que juega desta manera  (desta manera is
    jugar el ni¤o conla tierra, haziendo montocillos della. &c. y tomase
    metaphorice. por hazer ni¤erias, locuras y necedades el hombre
    insipiente). <tla:lli-p54-a:huiya-delya-l1-v04-caus08=0-prt1-qui1
    +ambig +metaphor>. 71m2-21|

  tlalmahuiltiliztli.  el acto de jugar assi el nino. &c  (assi is jugar
    el ni¤o conla tierra, haziendo montocillos della. &c. y tomase
    metaphorice. por hazer ni¤erias, locuras y necedades el hombre
    insipiente). <tla:lli-p54-a:huiya-delya-l1-v04-caus08=0-liz +ambig
    +metaphor>. 71m2-21|

  tlalololoa =ni=onitlalololoh.   <lo mesmo es que tlalmahuiltia> (jugar
    el ni¤o conla tierra, haziendo montocillos della. &c. y tomase
    metaphorice. por hazer ni¤erias, locuras y necedades el hombre
    insipiente). <p11-tla:lli-olo:lli-v03a-caus06 +metaphor>. 71m2-21|

  tlalololoani.   <lo mesmo es que tlalmauiltiani> (jugar el ni¤o con la
    tierra, haziendo montocillos della. &c. y tomase metaphorice. por
    hazer ni¤erias, locuras y necedades el hombre insipiente). <tla:lli-
    olo:lli-v03a-caus06-ni1 +metaphor>. 71m2-21|

  tlalololohqui.   <lo mesmo es que tlalmauiltiqui>. <tla:lli-olo:lli-
    v03a-caus06-prt1-qui1 +metaphor>. 71m2-21|

  tlalololohtinemi =ni=onitlalololohtinen.   <lo mesmo es que
    tlalmahuiltia>. <p11-tla:lli-olo:lli-v03a-caus06-prt1-ti1-nemi aux01
    +metaphor>. 71m2-21|

  tlalolololiztli.   <lo mesmo es que tlalmauiltiliztli> (jugar el ni¤o
    con la tierra, haziendo montocillos della. &c. y tomase metaphorice.
    por hazer ni¤erias, locuras y necedades el hombre insipiente).
    <tla:lli-olo:lli-v03a-caus06-liz +metaphor>. 71m2-21|

  tlalyoa.  despoblarse el pueblo por pestilencia o guerra. <tla:lli-
    yohua +metaphor +del.w>. 71m1-8|

  tlalyohua.  despoblar#se el pueblo por enfermedad o guerra. <tla:lli-
    yohua +ly>ly +prob +metaphor +ret.w>. 55m-6|

  tlanitlaza =nitla.  encubrir o dissimular culpa de otro. per
    metaphoram; encubrir o dissimular culpa de otro. <p11-p51-tlan-i2-
    tla:za +metaphor>. 55m-7|

  tlanitlazaliztli =tla.  encubrimiento assi  (assi is encubierta
    culpa). <p51-tlan-i2-tla:za-liz +metaphor>. 55m-7|

  tlanitlazalli =tla.  encubierta culpa. <p51-tlan-i2-tla:za-l1
    +metaphor>. 71m1-10|

  tlanitlazani =tla.  encubridor tal  (tal is encubrir o dissimular
    culpa de otro. per metaphoram); encubridor tal  (tal is encubrir o
    dissimular culpa de otro). <p51-tlan-i2-tla:za-ni1 +metaphor>. 55m-
    7|

  tlapacholli =tla.  callada cosa que no se diuulga. <dupl-p51-pachihui-
    caus06-l1 +fusion +metaphor>. 55m-2|

  tlapalli nictlalia =tlilli.  dar buen exemplo. <tli:lli p51-pa:3-l1
    p11-p33-tla:lia: +metaphor>. 55m-4|

  tlapalli nictlalia =tlilli [scribal error: ??printing error: same as
    item four elements above: 71m1].  edificar a otros dandoles buen
    exemplo. <tli:lli p51-pa:3-l1 p11-p33-tla:lia: +metaphor>. 71m1-9|

  tlapalli nictlalia =tlilli=tlilli tlapalli onictlalih.  dar buen
    exemplo. metaphora. <tli:lli p51-pa:3-l1 p11-p33-tla:lia:
    +metaphor>. 71m2-25|

  tlapallo =te.  generoso de buen linage  {+mis-print: bueu for buen};
    generoso de buen linage; hijo o hija de noble linage. metaphora.
    <poss-p51-pa:3-l1-yo:tl1 +ly>ll +kin +metaphor>. 55m-10|

  tlapallotia =nitla.  dar buen exemplo; edificar a otros dandoles buen
    exemplo. <p11-p51-p51-pa:3-l1-yo:tl1-v04-caus08 +ly>ll +metaphor>.
    55m-4|

  tlapanca =te.  generoso de buen linage  {+mis-print: bueu for buen};
    generoso de buen linage. <poss-tlapa:ni-prt1-ca:5 +kin +metaphor>.
    55m-10|

  tlapoa in nix noyollo =nic.  atento estar. <p11-p33-tlapohui-del.hui-
    caus08 in poss-i:xtli poss-yo:lli-yo:tl1 +ly>ll +del.w +metaphor>.
    55m-1|

  tlatia =nitetla=onitetlatlatih  [[tlatlatia =nite=onitetlatlati]].
    matar a otro. metaphora. <p11-p52-p51-tla:tia:2 +mis_analysis.
    +metaphor>. 71m2-24|

  tlazolli ic ninilacatzohtinemi =teuhtli.  biuir en pecados. <teuhtli
    tlazo:lli i:c1 p11-p54-ilacatztli-v03a-caus06-prt1-ti1-nemi aux01
    +metaphor>. 55m-2|

  tlazolli nicololohtinemi =teuhtli.  biuir en pecados. <teuhtli
    tlazo:lli p11-p33-olo:lli-v03a-caus06-prt1-ti1-nemi aux01
    +metaphor>. 55m-2|

  tlehuia =nino.  calentura grande tener. <p11-p54-tletl1-v05b
    +metaphor>. 55m-2|

  tlepopoca =ni.  calentura grande tener. <p11-tletl1-dupl-po:ca
    +metaphor>. 55m-2|

  tlilli nictlalia =tlapalli=tlapalli tlilli onictlalih.  dar buen
    exemplo. metaphora. <p51-pa:3-l1 tli:lli p11-p33-tla:lia:
    +metaphor>. 71m2-22|

  tlillotia =nitla.  dar buen exemplo; edificar a otros dandoles buen
    exemplo. <p11-p51-tli:lli-yo:tl1-v04-caus08 +ly>ll +metaphor>. 55m-
    4|

  tlillotia =nitla=onitlatlillotih.  dar buen exemplo. metaphora. <p11-
    p51-tli:lli-yo:tl1-v04-caus08 +ly>ll +metaphor>. 71m2-25|

  toca =tlayohualli nic.  esconderse. <tla6-yohua-l1 p11-p33-to:ca1
    +metaphor>. 71m1-10|

  toctia =tetl cuahuitl nicte.  emmendar castigando. <tetl1 cuahuitl p11-
    p33-p52-toca2-caus02 +metaphor>. 55m-7|

  tonallantlamachtia in cocoliztli =mo.  despoblar#se el pueblo por
    enfermedad o guerra. <+metaphor>. 55m-6|

  tonehua =ni.  padecer. <p11-to:ne:hua .bbbb +metaphor>. 55m-15|

  tonehua ic chichinaca in noyollo in nonacayo =ic.  adquirir con
    trabajo lo necessario ala vida. dizen per metaphoram. <i:c1
    to:ne:hua i:c1 chichinaca in poss-yo:lli-yo:tl1- in poss-nacatl-
    yo:tl1 +ly>ll +metaphor>. 55m-00|

  tzicueuhca =te.  generoso de buen linage  {+mis-print: bueu for buen};
    generoso de buen linage. <poss-tzi:cue:hua-prt1-ca:5 +kin
    +metaphor>. 55m-10|

  tzimmatoca =nite=onitetzimmatocac.  examinar algun negocio,
    inquiriendo de como passo, para saber la verdad. metaphora. <p11-p52-
    tzi:ntli-ma:itl-toca2 +metaphor>. 71m2-26|

  tzimmatocani =te.  examinador o inquisidor. metaphora. <p52-tzi:ntli-
    ma:itl-toca2-ni1 +metaphor>. 71m2-19|

  tzinehua =nite.  deponer del se¤orio; deponer de se¤orio o de oficio.
    <p11-p52-tzi:ntli-e:hua +metaphor>. 55m-5|

  tzinehua =nite=onitetzineuh.  deponer y quitar a alguno del officio o
    cargo que tenia, o echar a alguno cabeza baxo enel agua, o dela
    ventana abaxo. metaphora. <p11-p52-tzi:ntli-e:hua +metaphor>. 71m2-
    26|

  tzinehua =nitla=onitlatzineuh.  asolar y destruir el pueblo
    (metaphora), o desarraygar arboles, o cosa semejante. <p11-p51-
    tzi:ntli-e:hua +metaphor>. 71m2-26|

  tzinehualiztli =te.  deposicion o priuacion de oficio. metaphora. <p52-
    tzi:ntli-e:hua-liz +metaphor>. 71m2-19|

  tzinichotia =nic.  atar plumas ricas,juntandolas para ponerlas en
    algun plumaje,o  en alguna imagen que se haze de pluma, et per
    metaphoram,se  toma o significa, el fundamento,o el fundar la
    platica o sermon  sobre alguna auctoridad de escriptura, &c
    {??printing error: anctoridad for autoridad (in both the platzmann
    and in the facsimile)}. <+prob +metaphor>. 71m1-3|

  tzinichotia =nitla.  atar plumas ricas,juntandolas para ponerlas en
    algun plumaje,o  en alguna imagen que se haze de pluma, et per
    metaphoram,se  toma o significa, el fundamento,o el fundar la
    platica o sermon  sobre alguna auctoridad de escriptura, &c
    {??printing error: anctoridad for autoridad (in both the platzmann
    and in the facsimile)}. <+metaphor>. 71m1-3|

  tzintlalteppachihui =ni=onitzintlalteppachiuh.  estar quieto, pacifico
    y sosegado. metaphora. <p11-tzi:ntli-tla:lli-teuhti-pachihui
    +metaphor>. 71m2-26|

  tzintlanhuia =nite=onitetzintlanhuih.  examinar o inquirir de algun
    negocio, para saber como passo. metaphora. <p11-p52-tzi:ntli-tlan-
    v05b +metaphor>. 71m2-26|

  tzitzicaztli tetech nicpachoa =atl cecec.  emmendar castigando. <a:tl1
    dupl-ce:tl-v01b-delya-c1 tzi:tzica:ztli poss-tech1 p11-p33-pachihui-
    caus06 +out.rig +metaphor>. 55m-7|

  tzitzicaztli tetech nicpachoa =itztic atl =itztic
    atltzitzicaztlitetech onicpachoh.  corregir, o castigar a otro.
    metaphora. <i:tztli-tic a:tl1 tzi:tzica:ztli-poss-tech1-pachihui-
    caus06 +out.rig +metaphor>. 71m2-8|

  tzitzicaztli tetech nicpachoa =huitztli,=huitztli tzitzicaztli tetech
    onicpachoh.  reprehender y castigar aotro. metaphora. <huitztli-
    tzi:tzica:ztli-poss-tech1-pachihui-caus06 +out.rig +metaphor>. 71m2-
    27|

  tzon =te.  generoso de buen linage  {+mis-print: bueu for buen};
    generoso de buen linage. <poss-tzontli +kin +metaphor>. 55m-10|

  xayacatia =nicno=onicnoxayacatih.  emmaxcararse con ruynes costumbres.
    metaphora. <p11-p33-p54-xa:yacatl-v04-caus08 +metaphor>. 71m2-27|

  xiotia =nino=oninoxiotih.  tomar exemplo de otros. metaphora o poner
    las prunideras ala^tela. <p11-p54-xiyo:tl-v04-caus08 +metaphor>.
    71m2-27|

  xiotl quitlalia =octacatl.  el que da buen exemplo. metaphora.
    <octacatl xiyo:tl p33-tla:lia: +metaphor>. 71m2-13|

  xocomictia =nitla.  dar mal exemplo; destruir el pueblo con mal
    exemplo; per metaphoram; escandalizar; exemplo malo dar. <p11-p51-
    xocotl-miqui-caus02 +metaphor>. 55m-4|

  xocomictia =nitla=onitlaxocomictih.  dar mal exemplo a todo el pueblo,
    haziendolo errar. metaphora. <p11-p51-xocotl-miqui-caus02
    +metaphor>. 71m2-27|

  xonexca =ic ni.  noticia dar a alguno delo que le a de acaecer
    auisandole,  per metaphoram; noticia dar a alguno de lo que le a^de
    acaecer; auisandole. <+metaphor +prob>. 55m-14|

  xotla =ni.  calentura grande tener. <p11-xo:tla1 +metaphor>. 55m-2|

  yamancayotl.  blandura, yper metaphoram. quiere dezir, riqueza y
    prosperidad. <yama:ni-prt1-ca:5-yo:tl1 +metaphor>. 71m2-5|

  yecoa =nic.  echarse con muger. per metapbora<m>  {??printing error:
    metapbora<a> for metaphora<m>}. <p11-p33-yecoa: +metaphor>. 55m-6|

  yohualli nicnoittitia =tla.  esconderse. <tla6-yohua-l1 p11-p33-p54-
    itta1-caus02 +metaphor>. 55m-8|

  yohualli nicnotoctia =tla.  esconderse. <tla6-yohua-l1 p11-p33-p54-
    toca2-caus02 +metaphor>. 55m-8|

  yohualli nictoca =tla.  esconderse. <tla6-yohua-l1 p11-p33-to:ca1
    +metaphor>. 55m-8|

  yohuayan =ichtaca tla.  a escondidas; escondidamente; a^escondidadas.
    <ichtaca tla6-yohua-ya:n +metaphor>. 55m-00|

  yohuayan nicalaqui =xomolco tla.  esconderse. <xomolli-co1 tla6-yohua-
    ya:n p11-calaqui +metaphor>. 55m-8|

  yohuayan nicalaqui =xomolco tla=xomolco tlayohuayan onicalac.
    esconderse. metaphora. <xomolli-co1 tla6-yohua-ya:n p11-calaqui
    +metaphor>. 71m2-27|

  yollopiltic.  generoso de buen linage. <yo:lli-yo:tl1-pilli-tic +ly>ll
    +kin +metaphor>. 71m1-12|

count 378




Quoting Alec Battles <alec.battles at gmail.com>:

> After some Google searching, I wasn't able to find anything about
> Nahuatl idioms.
>
> English idioms tend arrive from other linguistic regions, move in, and
> make themselves very familiar. I don't know if the French were the
> first to say 'that's not my cup of tea,' but a friend has informed me
> that this idiom is very French indeed. I love English idioms, and one
> of my creative projects is to come up with new ones (for fun, but also
> for the free adoption of people involved in imaginative writing).
>
> Chinese idioms are quite different from English idioms. Usually, they
> reflect a much older stage of the language. In a way, they are nothing
> like English idioms, because their use shows a kind of uncommon
> erudition. It would be more likely to encounter Chinese idioms in
> print, less likely to encounter them in speech.
>
> Nonetheless, both languages are, in terms of current linguistic
> typology, 'analytic.'
>
> I am curious about Nahuatl idioms, classical and modern-dialectical.
> Can anyone give me some descriptions or examples of these?
>
> Alec
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>




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From karttu at comcast.net  Fri Oct  8 02:57:35 2010
From: karttu at comcast.net (Frances Karttunen)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2010 22:57:35 -0400
Subject: How do Nahuatl idioms compare to English idioms? How about
 Chinese idioms? Examples?
In-Reply-To: <20101007145345.agk67ffq4gkws0s4@webmail.iu.edu>
Message-ID: <THU.7.OCT.2010.225735.0400.KARTTU@COMCAST.NET>

On Oct 7, 2010, at 2:53 PM, Campbell, R. Joe wrote:

> Alec,
>
>    I agree with Fran's suggestions on where to look for idioms.  And
> since "difrasismos" are an interesting group of idioms, it is worth
> adding a super-source for them:
>   Mercedes Montes de Oca Vega
>   Los difrasismos en el Nahuatl del siglo XVI
>   Doctoral thesis, UNAM, 2000
>

The essay about difrasismos on the Mexicolore site that I mentioned  
is by Dr. Montes de Oca Vega.

www,mexicolore.co.uk is a nifty site.  The home page has a left-hand  
sidebar listing some options, the bottom-most of which is "Aztec  
pages." Selecting that gets you to an even longer list of categories  
such as Aztec Gods, Aztec Health, Aztec Music, Aztec Calendar…There's  
even an Ask the Experts option, and the contributors are our own very  
distinguished colleagues.

Thanks, Joe, for the exhaustive list of "metaphors" from Molina!

Fran




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From alec.battles at gmail.com  Thu Oct  7 13:45:46 2010
From: alec.battles at gmail.com (Alec Battles)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2010 22:45:46 +0900
Subject: How do Nahuatl idioms compare to English idioms? How about
 Chinese idioms? Examples?
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTiknediNJCnRVp4zgq5KKX2O8JHhEnS5fMoiHDzY@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <THU.7.OCT.2010.224546.0900.ALEC.BATTLES@GMAIL.COM>

Hi Frances

I spent about 6 months in Mexico when I was barely out of high school,
and I well remember being told 'aguas' by my friends and many friendly
hosts who must have thought I was a silly guero, which I basically
was. The expression is pretty common among speakers all over the Valle
de Mexico and the state of Morelos. I never heard 'hechame aguas,'
though. It would be interesting to see how this relates to a Nahuatl
(or even Mesoamerican, as I'm sure some idioms would have come in from
these languages). I'm something of an idiom collector myself. I've
read that the German word for 'idiom' is a compound noun of 'mouth' +
'art', which sums up my own feelings quite nicely.

Alec
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From alec.battles at gmail.com  Thu Oct  7 15:00:25 2010
From: alec.battles at gmail.com (Alec Battles)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 00:00:25 +0900
Subject: How do Nahuatl idioms compare to English idioms? How about
 Chinese idioms? Examples?
In-Reply-To: <B7FC3DD9-4885-477F-AB0F-C9EA881C2765@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <FRI.8.OCT.2010.000025.0900.ALEC.BATTLES@GMAIL.COM>

Excellent. I had a feeling they'd have their own term (like the
Chinese 'chengyu' ---> 'become/became language'). Thank you.

Alec
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From alec.battles at gmail.com  Fri Oct  8 09:37:51 2010
From: alec.battles at gmail.com (Alec Battles)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 18:37:51 +0900
Subject: How do Nahuatl idioms compare to English idioms? How about
 Chinese idioms? Examples?
In-Reply-To: <9F7A173C-3490-4EBA-97F6-E4FAD8809D57@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <FRI.8.OCT.2010.183751.0900.ALEC.BATTLES@GMAIL.COM>

> www,mexicolore.co.uk is a nifty site.  The home page has a left-hand
> sidebar listing some options, the bottom-most of which is "Aztec
> pages." Selecting that gets you to an even longer list of categories
> such as Aztec Gods, Aztec Health, Aztec Music, Aztec Calendar…There's
> even an Ask the Experts option, and the contributors are our own very
> distinguished colleagues.

I'll be sure to check it out.

> Thanks, Joe, for the exhaustive list of "metaphors" from Molina!

That was an excellent list, Joe. May I ask which computer program you
used to search/print them?

Alec

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From campbel at indiana.edu  Fri Oct  8 15:51:10 2010
From: campbel at indiana.edu (Campbell, R. Joe)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 11:51:10 -0400
Subject: How do Nahuatl idioms compare to English idioms? How about
 Chinese idioms? Examples?
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikQ0UeepbfU5zH++EM0Wpf_vq1shvG_DRGmn=AZ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.8.OCT.2010.115110.0400.CAMPBEL@INDIANA.EDU>

Alec,

   My programs are all written in a language called SPITBOL, which is 
an advanced form of a language called SNOBOL4 developed by Bell 
Telephone Labs.
I've been developing them since about 1966 and I always refer to them 
with the metaphor "kitchen-table" programs, even though my computer has 
never been on a kitchen table -- and couldn't have been, since I don't 
have a kitchen table.

|8-)

Joe



Quoting Alec Battles <alec.battles at gmail.com>:

>> www,mexicolore.co.uk is a nifty site.  The home page has a left-hand
>> sidebar listing some options, the bottom-most of which is "Aztec
>> pages." Selecting that gets you to an even longer list of categories
>> such as Aztec Gods, Aztec Health, Aztec Music, Aztec Calendar?There's
>> even an Ask the Experts option, and the contributors are our own very
>> distinguished colleagues.
>
> I'll be sure to check it out.
>
>> Thanks, Joe, for the exhaustive list of "metaphors" from Molina!
>
> That was an excellent list, Joe. May I ask which computer program you
> used to search/print them?
>
> Alec
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>




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Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From keeler.peter at gmail.com  Sun Oct 10 17:27:31 2010
From: keeler.peter at gmail.com (Peter Keeler)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2010 12:27:31 -0500
Subject: oyoualli
Message-ID: <SUN.10.OCT.2010.122731.0500.KEELER.PETER@GMAIL.COM>

Greetings, fellow Mesoamericanists - 

    Here is a question from a lurking Mayanist: 

         what can you tell me about the word oyoualli?

     I was surprised not to find it in the usual dictionaries,  nor, to my eye, any related word, or other spelling.

    Oyoualli is the term often used by archaeologists and art historians of pre-Columbian central Mexican cultures for a  cut-shell pectoral pendant. The pendant is a cross-section cut from the giant Mexican limpet, patella mexicana, oval in shape, with a hole in the middle.  Allegedly, for the Mexica it had connotations of female genitalia.

  thanks in advance for your comments, 

            Peter Keeler
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From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx  Mon Oct 11 15:39:54 2010
From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 10:39:54 -0500
Subject: oyoualli
In-Reply-To: <154A5BA4-0120-4218-AF78-BF6A2AB3075E@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <MON.11.OCT.2010.103954.0500.DCWRIGHT@PRODIGY.NET.MX>

Buenos días, Peter.

The use of "oyoualli" (*oyohualli* /oyowalli/) to refer to a pectoral
ornament can be traced back to Seler, who Mesoamericanists have often used
as a stepping-stone into iconography. In his Collected works (II, 93) he
describes a relief on a rock near Huaxtepec as representing "the dance god
with coyote ears on his temples and the *oyoualli* breast ornament" (the
latter element is not clearly represented in the drawing). In another
article (IV, 146) he relates how dead warriors as Mimixcoa greet the rising
Sun "beating upon their shields and rattling their *oyoualli* ornaments in
its direction". He cites Sahagún, book 3, appendix, chapter 3. I checked
this source and didn´t find the word *oyohualli.* He must have gotten it
somewhere, but he doesn't give us any clues to follow.

John Bierhorst, in his concordance to the *Cantares mexicanos*, has an entry
for the word *oyohualli,* which he translated as "leg bells (worn by
warriors)" and "the sound of screaming." He provides several references to
this word and its variants in the *Cantares mexicanos* manuscript and in
other sources, notably the *Florentine codex,* that you can use to follow up
on the word and see it in different contexts. Bierhorst's book is available
online.

I could not find anything about the ornament you describe in Lourdes Suárez
Diez's book "Conchas y caracoles," which is the first place I look for
information on Mesoamerican shell ornaments.

Saludos desde Guanajuato,

David Wright

References

Bierhorst, John, A Nahuatl-English dictionary and concordance to the
Cantares mexicanos, with an analytic transcription and grammatical notes,
Stanford, Stanford University Press, 1985.

Bierhorst, John, “A Nahuatl-English dictionary and concordance to the
Cantares mexicanos, with an analytic transcription and grammatical notes,”
facsimile of the 1985 ed., in *Ballads of the lords of New Spain,* digital
ed., John Bierhorst, editor and translator, Austin, University of Texas
Press, 2009 (http://utdi.org/book/pdf/dictionary.pdf; access: January 7,
2010).

Sahagún, Bernardino de, *Florentine codex, general history of the things of
New Spain,* 1st. ed./2nd. ed./reprint, 13 vols., Arthur J. O. Anderson and
Charles E. Dibble, editors and translators, Santa Fe/Salt Lake City, The
School of American Research/The University of Utah, 1974-1982.

Seler, Eduard Georg, *Collected works in Mesoamerican linguistics and
archaeology, English translations of German papers from Gesammelte
abhandlungen zur amerikanischen sprach- und alterthumskunde,* 2nd. ed., 6
vols., Charles P. Bowditch, translation supervisor; Frank E. Comparato, J.
Eric S. Thompson, and Francis B. Richardson, editors, Lancaster,
Labyrinthos, 1990-1998.

Suárez Diez, Lourdes, *Conchas y caracoles, ese universo maravilloso,* 2nd.
ed., Mexico, Instituto Nacional de Antropología e Historia, 2007.

-----Mensaje original-----
De: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org [mailto:nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org]
En nombre de Peter Keeler
Enviado el: domingo, 10 de octubre de 2010 12:28
Para: Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
Asunto: [Nahuat-l] oyoualli

Greetings, fellow Mesoamericanists - 

Here is a question from a lurking Mayanist: 

what can you tell me about the word oyoualli?

I was surprised not to find it in the usual dictionaries,  nor, to my eye,
any related word, or other spelling.

Oyoualli is the term often used by archaeologists and art historians of
pre-Columbian central Mexican cultures for a  cut-shell pectoral pendant.
The pendant is a cross-section cut from the giant Mexican limpet, patella
mexicana, oval in shape, with a hole in the middle.  Allegedly, for the
Mexica it had connotations of female genitalia.

thanks in advance for your comments, 

Peter Keeler


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Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From h.kammler at em.uni-frankfurt.de  Mon Oct 11 18:02:33 2010
From: h.kammler at em.uni-frankfurt.de (Henry Kammler)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 20:02:33 +0200
Subject: oyoualli
In-Reply-To: <000901cb695a$8d44caa0$a7ce5fe0$@net.mx>
Message-ID: <MON.11.OCT.2010.200233.0200.H.KAMMLER@EM.UNIFRANKFURT.DE>

I try again, using Windows ISO-8859-1 settings.

[The Listserv scrambles UNICODE, feels like 1993...]
[Workaround: If you click on "show message source" in your mailprogram 
you can see the raw text of  a "scrambled" message, and it shows 
correctly.]

Seler in the analytical wordlist to his extracts from Sahagún ("Einige 
Kapitel aus dem Geschichtswerk des Fray B. de Sahagún", 1927) gives 
the following related forms:

oyo-a, oyo-ua "schreien" [scream]
oyo-ualli "Geschrei" [screaming]
oyouh-ti-nemi "er schreit andauernd" [he screams all the time]

The semantic relation to the pectoral is obscure (or very far-flung at 
best if you consider metaphorical likenness of spiral form, whirling 
wind and the air set into motion by screaming, cf. the Aztec/Mixtec 
"speaking" glyph).

I don' have Simeon at hand, but [oyowalli] is not in Molina.

As is evident, phonemically many versions are thinkable. I'd 
experiment with a composition based on [o'-] < [o'tli] "path, road".

In Molina we have /yohualli/ for "noche" and many related forms 
referring to nocturnal activities and darkness. A composition with 
[o'-] would give something like "nightway, a road in darkness". Not 
very satisfying.
Molina himself, however, gives us a lead in compositions given with 
[tla-piya] "having, guarding"
/yohuallapiyaliztli/ "ronda, el acto de rondar"
/yohuallapiya, ni/ "rondar, rondar de noche"

For certain reasons the concepts of night and circle seem to be connected.
And there is a similar lexical entry: /yahualli/ for "caracol de 
escalera" and "assentadero de olla o de cosa semejante"  Hence: 
/yahualtic/ "cerco o cosa redonda como luna, circulo redondo, redondo 
como mesa redonda" and related forms.
Could /oyohualli/ then be derived from [o'-] and [yawal-li]?

Now, it is methodologically not very sound to insinuate a misspelling 
in the (quite few) sources. But modern dialects indicate that it may 
not be a matter of "incorrectness" or "misspelling" because short [a] 
can indeed experience a raising to [o] in the vicinity of [w].
In local Nahuatl variants of Central Guerrero you hear  [yowaltik] for 
"circular, spherical" alongside  [yawaltik].
In the Huasteca veracruzana this latter form is the rule (cf. 
Hernández 2007: "Totlajtolpialis. Dicc. nahuatl-castellano"), here you 
have
/youali/ "noche"
but
/youaltik/ "redondo, esférico"

So my *guess* is [o'-yawal-li] "circular road".

Seler introduced the term "oyohualli" based on his palaeographic 
reading of Sahagún. Did other editors of Sahagún read the word with 
the same spelling?

Ma ninosêwi,
Henry



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From yaocihua at gmail.com  Mon Oct 11 18:15:31 2010
From: yaocihua at gmail.com (Carmen Herrera)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 13:15:31 -0500
Subject: oyoualli
In-Reply-To: <4CB34E49.4020306@em.uni-frankfurt.de>
Message-ID: <MON.11.OCT.2010.131531.0500.YAOCIHUA@GMAIL.COM>

En Sahagún aparece el verbo y el sustantivo:
" toyôhuaz titzahtziz ", tu hurleras, tu criera. Sah6,70 (toiooaz).
" inin coyolli mihtoâya oyohualli ", on appelait ces clochettes 'oyohualli'
- these little bells were called oyohualli. Sah3,3.
Sacado del diccionario de Alexis Wimmer



2010/10/11 Henry Kammler <h.kammler at em.uni-frankfurt.de>

> Seler in the analytical wordlist to his extracts from Sahagún ("Einige
> Kapitel aus dem Geschichtswerk des Fray B. de Sahagún", 1927) gives
> the following related forms:
>
> oyo-a, oyo-ua "schreien" [scream]
> oyo-ualli "Geschrei" [screaming]
> oyouh-ti-nemi "er schreit andauernd" [he screams all the time]
>
> The semantic relation to the pectoral is obscure (or very far-flung at
> best if you consider metaphorical likenness of spiral form, whirling
> wind and the air set into motion by screaming, cf. the Aztec/Mixtec
> "speaking" glyph).
>
> I don' have Simeon at hand, but [oyowalli] is not in Molina.
>
> As is evident, phonemically many versions are thinkable. I'd
> experiment with a composition based on [o'-] < [o'tli] "path, road".
>
> In Molina we have /yohualli/ for "noche" and many related forms
> referring to nocturnal activities and darkness. A composition with
> [o'-] would give something like "nightway, a road in darkness". Not
> very satisfying.
> Molina himself, however, gives us a lead in compositions given with
> [tla-piya] "having, guarding"
> /yohuallapiyaliztli/ "ronda, el acto de rondar"
> /yohuallapiya, ni/ "rondar, rondar de noche"
>
> For certain reasons the concepts of night and circle seem to be connected.
> And there is a similar lexical entry: /yahualli/ for "caracol de
> escalera" and "assentadero de olla o de cosa semejante"  Hence:
> /yahualtic/ "cerco o cosa redonda como luna, circulo redondo, redondo
> como mesa redonda" and related forms.
> Could /oyohualli/ then be derived from [o'-] and [yawal-li]?
>
> Now, it is methodologically not very sound to insinuate a misspelling
> in the (quite few) sources. But modern dialects indicate that it may
> not be a matter of "incorrectness" or "misspelling" because short [a]
> can indeed experience a raising to [o] in the vicinity of [w].
> In local Nahuatl variants of Central Guerrero you hear  [yowaltik] for
> "circular, spherical" alongside  [yawaltik].
> In the Huasteca veracruzana this latter form is the rule (cf.
> Hernández 2007: "Totlajtolpialis. Dicc. nahuatl-castellano"), here you
> have
> /youali/ "noche"
> but
> /youaltik/ "redondo, esférico"
>
> So my *guess* is [o'-yawal-li] "circular road".
>
> Seler introduced the term "oyohualli" based on his palaeographic
> reading of Sahagún. Did other editors of Sahagún read the word with
> the same spelling?
>
> Ma ninosêwi,
> Henry
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>
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From schwallr at potsdam.edu  Mon Oct 11 18:06:46 2010
From: schwallr at potsdam.edu (John F. Schwaller)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 14:06:46 -0400
Subject: Scrambled messages
Message-ID: <MON.11.OCT.2010.140646.0400.SCHWALLR@POTSDAM.EDU>

  Henry Kammler wrote:
> I try again, using Windows ISO-8859-1 settings.
>
> [The Listserv scrambles UNICODE, feels like 1993...]
> [Workaround: If you click on "show message source" in your mailprogram
> you can see the raw text of  a "scrambled" message, and it shows
> correctly.]

You can also go to the Nahuatl archives and find the post revealed unscrambled:

http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/nahuat-l.html

-- 
*****************************
John F. Schwaller
President
SUNY - Potsdam
44 Pierrepont Ave.
Potsdam, NY  13676
Tel. 315-267-2100
FAX 315-267-2496

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From mmccaffe at indiana.edu  Mon Oct 11 18:56:04 2010
From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 14:56:04 -0400
Subject: oyoualli
In-Reply-To: <000901cb695a$8d44caa0$a7ce5fe0$@net.mx>
Message-ID: <MON.11.OCT.2010.145604.0400.MMCCAFFE@INDIANA.EDU>

David's comment seems to be correct. "Oyoualli" appears to be a term 
whose application to these shell ornaments Seler coined.

http://www.loc.gov/loc/lcib/0906/toltecs.html

My memory tells me it originally means "rattle". Leon-Portilla 
mentioned it, I'm pretty sure, in the Handbook of Middle American 
Indians. But then I know he translates it as "bells" in _Native 
Meso-American Spirituality in his study of a song about the birth of 
Huitzilopochtli.

Michael



Quoting David Wright <dcwright at prodigy.net.mx>:

> Buenos días, Peter.
>
> The use of "oyoualli" (*oyohualli* /oyowalli/) to refer to a pectoral
> ornament can be traced back to Seler, who Mesoamericanists have often used
> as a stepping-stone into iconography. In his Collected works (II, 93) he
> describes a relief on a rock near Huaxtepec as representing "the dance god
> with coyote ears on his temples and the *oyoualli* breast ornament" (the
> latter element is not clearly represented in the drawing). In another
> article (IV, 146) he relates how dead warriors as Mimixcoa greet the rising
> Sun "beating upon their shields and rattling their *oyoualli* ornaments in
> its direction". He cites Sahagún, book 3, appendix, chapter 3. I checked
> this source and didn´t find the word *oyohualli.* He must have gotten it
> somewhere, but he doesn't give us any clues to follow.
>
> John Bierhorst, in his concordance to the *Cantares mexicanos*, has an entry
> for the word *oyohualli,* which he translated as "leg bells (worn by
> warriors)" and "the sound of screaming." He provides several references to
> this word and its variants in the *Cantares mexicanos* manuscript and in
> other sources, notably the *Florentine codex,* that you can use to follow up
> on the word and see it in different contexts. Bierhorst's book is available
> online.
>
> I could not find anything about the ornament you describe in Lourdes Suárez
> Diez's book "Conchas y caracoles," which is the first place I look for
> information on Mesoamerican shell ornaments.
>
> Saludos desde Guanajuato,
>
> David Wright
>
> References
>
> Bierhorst, John, A Nahuatl-English dictionary and concordance to the
> Cantares mexicanos, with an analytic transcription and grammatical notes,
> Stanford, Stanford University Press, 1985.
>
> Bierhorst, John, “A Nahuatl-English dictionary and concordance to the
> Cantares mexicanos, with an analytic transcription and grammatical notes,”
> facsimile of the 1985 ed., in *Ballads of the lords of New Spain,* digital
> ed., John Bierhorst, editor and translator, Austin, University of Texas
> Press, 2009 (http://utdi.org/book/pdf/dictionary.pdf; access: January 7,
> 2010).
>
> Sahagún, Bernardino de, *Florentine codex, general history of the things of
> New Spain,* 1st. ed./2nd. ed./reprint, 13 vols., Arthur J. O. Anderson and
> Charles E. Dibble, editors and translators, Santa Fe/Salt Lake City, The
> School of American Research/The University of Utah, 1974-1982.
>
> Seler, Eduard Georg, *Collected works in Mesoamerican linguistics and
> archaeology, English translations of German papers from Gesammelte
> abhandlungen zur amerikanischen sprach- und alterthumskunde,* 2nd. ed., 6
> vols., Charles P. Bowditch, translation supervisor; Frank E. Comparato, J.
> Eric S. Thompson, and Francis B. Richardson, editors, Lancaster,
> Labyrinthos, 1990-1998.
>
> Suárez Diez, Lourdes, *Conchas y caracoles, ese universo maravilloso,* 2nd.
> ed., Mexico, Instituto Nacional de Antropología e Historia, 2007.
>
> -----Mensaje original-----
> De: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org [mailto:nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org]
> En nombre de Peter Keeler
> Enviado el: domingo, 10 de octubre de 2010 12:28
> Para: Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> Asunto: [Nahuat-l] oyoualli
>
> Greetings, fellow Mesoamericanists -
>
> Here is a question from a lurking Mayanist:
>
> what can you tell me about the word oyoualli?
>
> I was surprised not to find it in the usual dictionaries,  nor, to my eye,
> any related word, or other spelling.
>
> Oyoualli is the term often used by archaeologists and art historians of
> pre-Columbian central Mexican cultures for a  cut-shell pectoral pendant.
> The pendant is a cross-section cut from the giant Mexican limpet, patella
> mexicana, oval in shape, with a hole in the middle.  Allegedly, for the
> Mexica it had connotations of female genitalia.
>
> thanks in advance for your comments,
>
> Peter Keeler
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>




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From cindy at grito-poetry.com  Mon Oct 11 19:47:40 2010
From: cindy at grito-poetry.com (Cindy Williams Gutierrez)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 12:47:40 -0700
Subject: Translation Assistance for Nahua-inspired Lullaby
In-Reply-To: <4CB35236.2050103@potsdam.edu>
Message-ID: <MON.11.OCT.2010.124740.0700.CINDY@GRITOPOETRY.COM>

 

Dear Nahuatl Enthusiasts:

 

Can someone kindly help with a translation of the following lines (or
point me to a resource for translation):

 

*	"Sleep, small one"
*	"Let me be the cottonwood, the juniper"

 

I'm working on a Nahua-inspired lullaby poem.

 

Thank you kindly,

Cindy WG

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From mmccaffe at indiana.edu  Mon Oct 11 22:34:23 2010
From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 18:34:23 -0400
Subject: Translation Assistance for Nahua-inspired Lullaby
In-Reply-To: <000401cb697d$2a2705a0$6501a8c0@HPPavilion>
Message-ID: <MON.11.OCT.2010.183423.0400.MMCCAFFE@INDIANA.EDU>

Quoting Cindy Williams Gutierrez <cindy at grito-poetry.com>:

>
>
> Dear Nahuatl Enthusiasts:
>
>
>
> Can someone kindly help with a translation of the following lines (or
> point me to a resource for translation):
>
>
>
> *	"Sleep, small one"
> *	"Let me be the cottonwood, the juniper"


I'm a sucker, perhaps a buffalo fish, so I'll take the bait.

>


"Xicochi, conetzin,
Xinechchihuacan in pochotl, in X..."


X means I don't have "juniper" in my Nahuatl vocabulary, or so I think. 
I have it in Navajo, French, and Miami-Illinois, but not in Nahuatl.

Could I interest you in fir, pine, or cypress?

oyametl 'fir', ocotl 'pine', ahuehuetl 'cypress'

:-)

Hopefully, someone else can supply the juniper.

Michael


>
>
> I'm working on a Nahua-inspired lullaby poem.
>
>
>
> Thank you kindly,
>
> Cindy WG
>
>



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From idiez at me.com  Tue Oct 12 03:47:42 2010
From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 22:47:42 -0500
Subject: Translation Assistance for Nahua-inspired Lullaby
In-Reply-To: <20101011183423.t57mz3as7kcswgwg@webmail.iu.edu>
Message-ID: <MON.11.OCT.2010.224742.0500.IDIEZ@ME.COM>

Listeros,
	I don't know how to say juniper, and there is a town in Veracruz called Ichcacuatitlan, so in Modern Huastecan Nahuatl....
Xicochi nopilconeuh, 
Ma nimocuapa ichcacuahuitl...
John

On Oct 11, 2010, at 5:34 PM, Michael McCafferty wrote:

> Quoting Cindy Williams Gutierrez <cindy at grito-poetry.com>:
> 
>> 
>> 
>> Dear Nahuatl Enthusiasts:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Can someone kindly help with a translation of the following lines (or
>> point me to a resource for translation):
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> *	"Sleep, small one"
>> *	"Let me be the cottonwood, the juniper"
> 
> 
> I'm a sucker, perhaps a buffalo fish, so I'll take the bait.
> 
>> 
> 
> 
> "Xicochi, conetzin,
> Xinechchihuacan in pochotl, in X..."
> 
> 
> X means I don't have "juniper" in my Nahuatl vocabulary, or so I think. 
> I have it in Navajo, French, and Miami-Illinois, but not in Nahuatl.
> 
> Could I interest you in fir, pine, or cypress?
> 
> oyametl 'fir', ocotl 'pine', ahuehuetl 'cypress'
> 
> :-)
> 
> Hopefully, someone else can supply the juniper.
> 
> Michael
> 
> 
>> 
>> 
>> I'm working on a Nahua-inspired lullaby poem.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Thank you kindly,
>> 
>> Cindy WG
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl

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From campbel at indiana.edu  Tue Oct 12 04:18:38 2010
From: campbel at indiana.edu (Campbell, R. Joe)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 00:18:38 -0400
Subject: oyoualli
In-Reply-To: <000901cb695a$8d44caa0$a7ce5fe0$@net.mx>
Message-ID: <TUE.12.OCT.2010.001838.0400.CAMPBEL@INDIANA.EDU>

David, Henry, Carmen, and Michael,

   I have appreciated your comments and I am sure that I will benefit 
from them.

Here are some locations for "oyohualli" in the Florentine.

Joe


coyoalle**

1. yehhua *coyoalle*..
      It is lord of the night's half-way point (b.2 f.14 p.238).

oyoalle**

2. oc *oyoalle*.
      he who still has the bells (b.2 f.14 p.231).

oyoalli**

3. auh in oittoc cenca tlacahuacac, iuhquin *oyoalli* ommoma..
      and when it was seen, there was much shouting; like [the
     rattle of] shells it spread about. (b.8 f.1 p.18).

oyohuale**

4. tzitzile, *oyohuale*,.
      he had bells and shells. (b.1 f.2 p.44).

oyohualle**

5. tzitzile, *oyohualle*..
      he wore bells, he wore shells. (b.1 f.1 p.2).

oyohualli**

6. mochi teocuitlatl in coyolli, mitoa *oyohualli*:.
      all gold were the bells, called oyoalli. (b.2 f.3 p.69).

7. *oyohualli* contlalitiuh,.
      he went fastening [golden] bells [to his legs]. (b.2 f.3
     p.76).

8. inin coyolli mitoaya *oyohualli*,.
      these little bells were called oyoualli. (b.3 f.1 p.3).

9. tzatzihua: *oyohualli* moteca,.
      here was shouting everywhere. (b.7 f.1 p.2).

10. iuhquin *oyohualli* ommoman..
      it was as if [the din of] shell rattles was overspread.
     (b.12 f.1 p.2).


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From campbel at indiana.edu  Tue Oct 12 05:10:23 2010
From: campbel at indiana.edu (Campbell, R. Joe)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 01:10:23 -0400
Subject: Translation Assistance for Nahua-inspired Lullaby
In-Reply-To: <20101011183423.t57mz3as7kcswgwg@webmail.iu.edu>
Message-ID: <TUE.12.OCT.2010.011023.0400.CAMPBEL@INDIANA.EDU>

Cindy,

   Michael has already offered the answer with his "pochotl" and "ahuehuetl"
(note lack of vowel length).

   Dibble and Anderson did not include "juniper" as a translation for 
"ahuehuetl" anywhere in the Florentine Codex, but "pochotl" and 
"ahuehuetl" have a high rate of co-occurrence, mainly due to their 
partnership in a "difrasismo", with the meaning of 'refuge'.

   Louise C. Schoenhaus, in her _A Spanish-English Glossary of Mexican 
Flora and Fauna_ (published by the Summer Institute of Linguistics), 
says:

   juniper (Juniperus spp., e.g., J. monticola)  cedro blanco, cedro,
   cipre's, enhebro, junipero, ta'scate, tlaxcal (page 185)

...so since "ahuehuetl" is a cypress (as Michael said), the circle is 
closed... or is it a triangle?

Iztayomeh,

Joe

Quoting Michael McCafferty <mmccaffe at indiana.edu>:

> Quoting Cindy Williams Gutierrez <cindy at grito-poetry.com>:
>
>>
>>
>> Dear Nahuatl Enthusiasts:
>>
>>
>>
>> Can someone kindly help with a translation of the following lines (or
>> point me to a resource for translation):
>>
>>
>>
>> *	"Sleep, small one"
>> *	"Let me be the cottonwood, the juniper"
>
>
> I'm a sucker, perhaps a buffalo fish, so I'll take the bait.
>
>>
>
>
> "Xicochi, conetzin,
> Xinechchihuacan in pochotl, in X..."
>
>
> X means I don't have "juniper" in my Nahuatl vocabulary, or so I think.
> I have it in Navajo, French, and Miami-Illinois, but not in Nahuatl.
>
> Could I interest you in fir, pine, or cypress?
>
> oyametl 'fir', ocotl 'pine', ahuehuetl 'cypress'
>
> :-)
>
> Hopefully, someone else can supply the juniper.
>
> Michael
>
>
>>
>>
>> I'm working on a Nahua-inspired lullaby poem.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you kindly,
>>
>> Cindy WG
>>
>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>



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From idiez at me.com  Tue Oct 12 10:54:31 2010
From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 05:54:31 -0500
Subject: Translation Assistance for Nahua-inspired Lullaby
In-Reply-To: <20101012011023.uz3z75b1twkgco08@webmail.iu.edu>
Message-ID: <TUE.12.OCT.2010.055431.0500.IDIEZ@ME.COM>

In Modern Huastecan Nahuatl, cedar is tiocuahuitl (teo-tl, cuahuitl).
John

On Oct 12, 2010, at 12:10 AM, Campbell, R. Joe wrote:

> Cindy,
> 
>   Michael has already offered the answer with his "pochotl" and "ahuehuetl"
> (note lack of vowel length).
> 
>   Dibble and Anderson did not include "juniper" as a translation for 
> "ahuehuetl" anywhere in the Florentine Codex, but "pochotl" and 
> "ahuehuetl" have a high rate of co-occurrence, mainly due to their 
> partnership in a "difrasismo", with the meaning of 'refuge'.
> 
>   Louise C. Schoenhaus, in her _A Spanish-English Glossary of Mexican 
> Flora and Fauna_ (published by the Summer Institute of Linguistics), 
> says:
> 
>   juniper (Juniperus spp., e.g., J. monticola)  cedro blanco, cedro,
>   cipre's, enhebro, junipero, ta'scate, tlaxcal (page 185)
> 
> ...so since "ahuehuetl" is a cypress (as Michael said), the circle is 
> closed... or is it a triangle?
> 
> Iztayomeh,
> 
> Joe
> 
> Quoting Michael McCafferty <mmccaffe at indiana.edu>:
> 
>> Quoting Cindy Williams Gutierrez <cindy at grito-poetry.com>:
>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Dear Nahuatl Enthusiasts:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Can someone kindly help with a translation of the following lines (or
>>> point me to a resource for translation):
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> *	"Sleep, small one"
>>> *	"Let me be the cottonwood, the juniper"
>> 
>> 
>> I'm a sucker, perhaps a buffalo fish, so I'll take the bait.
>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> "Xicochi, conetzin,
>> Xinechchihuacan in pochotl, in X..."
>> 
>> 
>> X means I don't have "juniper" in my Nahuatl vocabulary, or so I think.
>> I have it in Navajo, French, and Miami-Illinois, but not in Nahuatl.
>> 
>> Could I interest you in fir, pine, or cypress?
>> 
>> oyametl 'fir', ocotl 'pine', ahuehuetl 'cypress'
>> 
>> :-)
>> 
>> Hopefully, someone else can supply the juniper.
>> 
>> Michael
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I'm working on a Nahua-inspired lullaby poem.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Thank you kindly,
>>> 
>>> Cindy WG
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nahuatl mailing list
>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl

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From mmccaffe at indiana.edu  Tue Oct 12 11:39:03 2010
From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 07:39:03 -0400
Subject: Translation Assistance for Nahua-inspired Lullaby
In-Reply-To: <20101012011023.uz3z75b1twkgco08@webmail.iu.edu>
Message-ID: <TUE.12.OCT.2010.073903.0400.MMCCAFFE@INDIANA.EDU>

Quoting "Campbell,  R. Joe" <campbel at indiana.edu>:

> Cindy,
>
>   Michael has already offered the answer with his "pochotl" and "ahuehuetl"
> (note lack of vowel length).

Quematzin. Was lazy about providing vowel length for this kind of enterprise.
:-)


But for interested listeros:

/po:cho:tl/

I believe Kartunnen's dictionary has this here term.

These tree terms are in the Florentine, with no vowel length indicated. 
I'd guess 'ahuehuetl' would be /a:we:we:tl/



>
>   Dibble and Anderson did not include "juniper" as a translation for
> "ahuehuetl" anywhere in the Florentine Codex, but "pochotl" and
> "ahuehuetl" have a high rate of co-occurrence, mainly due to their
> partnership in a "difrasismo", with the meaning of 'refuge'.

This is nice, Cindy, in that your lullaby can hook up with an ancient 
idea that relates to it.

If you wanted to make the song sound even more ancient you could change 
the xi- to xa-.

;-)




>
>   Louise C. Schoenhaus, in her _A Spanish-English Glossary of Mexican
> Flora and Fauna_ (published by the Summer Institute of Linguistics),
> says:
>
>   juniper (Juniperus spp., e.g., J. monticola)  cedro blanco, cedro,
>   cipre's, enhebro, junipero, ta'scate, tlaxcal (page 185)


This "tlaxcal" is curious


>
> ...so since "ahuehuetl" is a cypress (as Michael said), the circle is
> closed... or is it a triangle?

quadrahedron?


Michael



>
> Iztayomeh,
>
> Joe
>
> Quoting Michael McCafferty <mmccaffe at indiana.edu>:
>
>> Quoting Cindy Williams Gutierrez <cindy at grito-poetry.com>:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dear Nahuatl Enthusiasts:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Can someone kindly help with a translation of the following lines (or
>>> point me to a resource for translation):
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *	"Sleep, small one"
>>> *	"Let me be the cottonwood, the juniper"
>>
>>
>> I'm a sucker, perhaps a buffalo fish, so I'll take the bait.
>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> "Xicochi, conetzin,
>> Xinechchihuacan in pochotl, in X..."
>>
>>
>> X means I don't have "juniper" in my Nahuatl vocabulary, or so I think.
>> I have it in Navajo, French, and Miami-Illinois, but not in Nahuatl.
>>
>> Could I interest you in fir, pine, or cypress?
>>
>> oyametl 'fir', ocotl 'pine', ahuehuetl 'cypress'
>>
>> :-)
>>
>> Hopefully, someone else can supply the juniper.
>>
>> Michael
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm working on a Nahua-inspired lullaby poem.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thank you kindly,
>>>
>>> Cindy WG
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nahuatl mailing list
>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>>
>
>
>
>



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From mmccaffe at indiana.edu  Tue Oct 12 11:40:13 2010
From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 07:40:13 -0400
Subject: Translation Assistance for Nahua-inspired Lullaby
In-Reply-To: <2412A014-FEAC-4CAE-96AC-3C9BF4690CC3@me.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.12.OCT.2010.074013.0400.MMCCAFFE@INDIANA.EDU>

Quoting John Sullivan <idiez at me.com>:

> In Modern Huastecan Nahuatl, cedar is tiocuahuitl (teo-tl, cuahuitl).
> John

Is it used in religious ceremonies?

Thanks,

Michael


>
> On Oct 12, 2010, at 12:10 AM, Campbell, R. Joe wrote:
>
>> Cindy,
>>
>>   Michael has already offered the answer with his "pochotl" and "ahuehuetl"
>> (note lack of vowel length).
>>
>>   Dibble and Anderson did not include "juniper" as a translation for
>> "ahuehuetl" anywhere in the Florentine Codex, but "pochotl" and
>> "ahuehuetl" have a high rate of co-occurrence, mainly due to their
>> partnership in a "difrasismo", with the meaning of 'refuge'.
>>
>>   Louise C. Schoenhaus, in her _A Spanish-English Glossary of Mexican
>> Flora and Fauna_ (published by the Summer Institute of Linguistics),
>> says:
>>
>>   juniper (Juniperus spp., e.g., J. monticola)  cedro blanco, cedro,
>>   cipre's, enhebro, junipero, ta'scate, tlaxcal (page 185)
>>
>> ...so since "ahuehuetl" is a cypress (as Michael said), the circle is
>> closed... or is it a triangle?
>>
>> Iztayomeh,
>>
>> Joe
>>
>> Quoting Michael McCafferty <mmccaffe at indiana.edu>:
>>
>>> Quoting Cindy Williams Gutierrez <cindy at grito-poetry.com>:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dear Nahuatl Enthusiasts:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Can someone kindly help with a translation of the following lines (or
>>>> point me to a resource for translation):
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *	"Sleep, small one"
>>>> *	"Let me be the cottonwood, the juniper"
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm a sucker, perhaps a buffalo fish, so I'll take the bait.
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Xicochi, conetzin,
>>> Xinechchihuacan in pochotl, in X..."
>>>
>>>
>>> X means I don't have "juniper" in my Nahuatl vocabulary, or so I think.
>>> I have it in Navajo, French, and Miami-Illinois, but not in Nahuatl.
>>>
>>> Could I interest you in fir, pine, or cypress?
>>>
>>> oyametl 'fir', ocotl 'pine', ahuehuetl 'cypress'
>>>
>>> :-)
>>>
>>> Hopefully, someone else can supply the juniper.
>>>
>>> Michael
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'm working on a Nahua-inspired lullaby poem.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thank you kindly,
>>>>
>>>> Cindy WG
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nahuatl mailing list
>>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nahuatl mailing list
>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>



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From campbel at indiana.edu  Tue Oct 12 14:52:34 2010
From: campbel at indiana.edu (Campbell, R. Joe)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 10:52:34 -0400
Subject: Translation Assistance for Nahua-inspired Lullaby
In-Reply-To: <20101012073903.o7fm6ylbwc848cs8@webmail.iu.edu>
Message-ID: <TUE.12.OCT.2010.105234.0400.CAMPBEL@INDIANA.EDU>

Quoting Michael McCafferty <mmccaffe at indiana.edu>:

> Quoting "Campbell,  R. Joe" <campbel at indiana.edu>:
>
>> Cindy,
>>
>>   Michael has already offered the answer with his "pochotl" and "ahuehuetl"
>> (note lack of vowel length).
>
> Quematzin. Was lazy about providing vowel length for this kind of enterprise.
> :-)
>
>
When I pointed out the lack of vowel length, it did not occur to me 
that I seemed to onicmahpilhuih Michael as if he were tlahtlacoani... I 
merely meant to "point out" my own decision not to specify vowel length 
(as is my wont).

Further, I mis-spelled the name of Louise C. Schoenhals.  I hope I 
didn't cause anyone to spin their wheels in searching for her book.

> 8-(

Joe

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From idiez at me.com  Wed Oct 13 11:39:03 2010
From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 06:39:03 -0500
Subject: piltlahcuiloltzin
Message-ID: <WED.13.OCT.2010.063903.0500.IDIEZ@ME.COM>

Listeros,
	We got through a round of revisions of the letter definitions, so I'm going to start posting them again. And thank you very much for your comments.
John

P. piltlahcuiloltzin. Quimanextia tentlatzacuilcayotl tlen caquizti quemman motzacua tocopac,  huan monamiqui totenxipal huan quitzacua ihyotl; teipan tlamahcauhtehua nochi huan quiztihuetzi ihyotl tlatlahco tocamac.

P. letter.  It represents the consonant that is heard when the velum closes, and the lips touch and stop the airflow; then they separate completely and breath exits suddenly through the middle of the mouth.
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From schwallr at potsdam.edu  Wed Oct 13 15:01:36 2010
From: schwallr at potsdam.edu (John F. Schwaller)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 11:01:36 -0400
Subject: Foundation Course
Message-ID: <WED.13.OCT.2010.110136.0400.SCHWALLR@POTSDAM.EDU>


I have just had new copies of Campbell and Karttunen's "Foundation Course in 
Nahuatl" printed and the two-volume set is available.  I am pleased that the 
printing costs have remained stable so that the cost for distribution in the 
U.S. remains $40.  Thanks to new rates for Priority International mail the cost 
of sending the books to Europe has come down dramatically.  As a result the cost 
of the two volumes for European delivery is $55.

For information about ordering see:

http://www2.potsdam.edu/schwaljf/Nahuatl/hotlinks.htm


-- 
*****************************
John F. Schwaller
President
SUNY - Potsdam
44 Pierrepont Ave.
Potsdam, NY  13676
Tel. 315-267-2100
FAX 315-267-2496

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From idiez at me.com  Wed Oct 13 23:39:56 2010
From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 18:39:56 -0500
Subject: Translation Assistance for Nahua-inspired Lullaby
In-Reply-To: <20101012074013.by4avknmqass8ckc@webmail.iu.edu>
Message-ID: <WED.13.OCT.2010.183956.0500.IDIEZ@ME.COM>

Michael,
	Tiocuahuitl is used for making huapalli, "boards", and the bark is used for incense in ceremonies, not as frequently though, as copalli.
John

On Oct 12, 2010, at 6:40 AM, Michael McCafferty wrote:

> Quoting John Sullivan <idiez at me.com>:
> 
>> In Modern Huastecan Nahuatl, cedar is tiocuahuitl (teo-tl, cuahuitl).
>> John
> 
> Is it used in religious ceremonies?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Michael
> 
> 
>> 
>> On Oct 12, 2010, at 12:10 AM, Campbell, R. Joe wrote:
>> 
>>> Cindy,
>>> 
>>>  Michael has already offered the answer with his "pochotl" and "ahuehuetl"
>>> (note lack of vowel length).
>>> 
>>>  Dibble and Anderson did not include "juniper" as a translation for
>>> "ahuehuetl" anywhere in the Florentine Codex, but "pochotl" and
>>> "ahuehuetl" have a high rate of co-occurrence, mainly due to their
>>> partnership in a "difrasismo", with the meaning of 'refuge'.
>>> 
>>>  Louise C. Schoenhaus, in her _A Spanish-English Glossary of Mexican
>>> Flora and Fauna_ (published by the Summer Institute of Linguistics),
>>> says:
>>> 
>>>  juniper (Juniperus spp., e.g., J. monticola)  cedro blanco, cedro,
>>>  cipre's, enhebro, junipero, ta'scate, tlaxcal (page 185)
>>> 
>>> ...so since "ahuehuetl" is a cypress (as Michael said), the circle is
>>> closed... or is it a triangle?
>>> 
>>> Iztayomeh,
>>> 
>>> Joe
>>> 
>>> Quoting Michael McCafferty <mmccaffe at indiana.edu>:
>>> 
>>>> Quoting Cindy Williams Gutierrez <cindy at grito-poetry.com>:
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Dear Nahuatl Enthusiasts:
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Can someone kindly help with a translation of the following lines (or
>>>>> point me to a resource for translation):
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> *	"Sleep, small one"
>>>>> *	"Let me be the cottonwood, the juniper"
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> I'm a sucker, perhaps a buffalo fish, so I'll take the bait.
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> "Xicochi, conetzin,
>>>> Xinechchihuacan in pochotl, in X..."
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> X means I don't have "juniper" in my Nahuatl vocabulary, or so I think.
>>>> I have it in Navajo, French, and Miami-Illinois, but not in Nahuatl.
>>>> 
>>>> Could I interest you in fir, pine, or cypress?
>>>> 
>>>> oyametl 'fir', ocotl 'pine', ahuehuetl 'cypress'
>>>> 
>>>> :-)
>>>> 
>>>> Hopefully, someone else can supply the juniper.
>>>> 
>>>> Michael
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> I'm working on a Nahua-inspired lullaby poem.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thank you kindly,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Cindy WG
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Nahuatl mailing list
>>>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>>>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nahuatl mailing list
>>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nahuatl mailing list
>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl

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From mmccaffe at indiana.edu  Thu Oct 14 00:20:21 2010
From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 20:20:21 -0400
Subject: Translation Assistance for Nahua-inspired Lullaby
In-Reply-To: <F0574715-35E0-4C7A-9813-39C6F1B5657F@me.com>
Message-ID: <WED.13.OCT.2010.202021.0400.MMCCAFFE@INDIANA.EDU>

Quoting John Sullivan <idiez at me.com>:

> Michael,
> 	Tiocuahuitl is used for making huapalli, "boards", and the bark is
> used for incense in ceremonies, not as frequently though, as copalli.
> John

Thanks, John.

Cedar, as you know, is commonly used north of the border by various 
American Indian groups in the West as an incense. "Tiocuahuitl" is a 
curious name seemingly in that connection.

Michael

>
> On Oct 12, 2010, at 6:40 AM, Michael McCafferty wrote:
>
>> Quoting John Sullivan <idiez at me.com>:
>>
>>> In Modern Huastecan Nahuatl, cedar is tiocuahuitl (teo-tl, cuahuitl).
>>> John
>>
>> Is it used in religious ceremonies?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Michael
>>
>>
>>>
>>> On Oct 12, 2010, at 12:10 AM, Campbell, R. Joe wrote:
>>>
>>>> Cindy,
>>>>
>>>>  Michael has already offered the answer with his "pochotl" and "ahuehuetl"
>>>> (note lack of vowel length).
>>>>
>>>>  Dibble and Anderson did not include "juniper" as a translation for
>>>> "ahuehuetl" anywhere in the Florentine Codex, but "pochotl" and
>>>> "ahuehuetl" have a high rate of co-occurrence, mainly due to their
>>>> partnership in a "difrasismo", with the meaning of 'refuge'.
>>>>
>>>>  Louise C. Schoenhaus, in her _A Spanish-English Glossary of Mexican
>>>> Flora and Fauna_ (published by the Summer Institute of Linguistics),
>>>> says:
>>>>
>>>>  juniper (Juniperus spp., e.g., J. monticola)  cedro blanco, cedro,
>>>>  cipre's, enhebro, junipero, ta'scate, tlaxcal (page 185)
>>>>
>>>> ...so since "ahuehuetl" is a cypress (as Michael said), the circle is
>>>> closed... or is it a triangle?
>>>>
>>>> Iztayomeh,
>>>>
>>>> Joe
>>>>
>>>> Quoting Michael McCafferty <mmccaffe at indiana.edu>:
>>>>
>>>>> Quoting Cindy Williams Gutierrez <cindy at grito-poetry.com>:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dear Nahuatl Enthusiasts:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Can someone kindly help with a translation of the following lines (or
>>>>>> point me to a resource for translation):
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *	"Sleep, small one"
>>>>>> *	"Let me be the cottonwood, the juniper"
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm a sucker, perhaps a buffalo fish, so I'll take the bait.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Xicochi, conetzin,
>>>>> Xinechchihuacan in pochotl, in X..."
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> X means I don't have "juniper" in my Nahuatl vocabulary, or so I think.
>>>>> I have it in Navajo, French, and Miami-Illinois, but not in Nahuatl.
>>>>>
>>>>> Could I interest you in fir, pine, or cypress?
>>>>>
>>>>> oyametl 'fir', ocotl 'pine', ahuehuetl 'cypress'
>>>>>
>>>>> :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> Hopefully, someone else can supply the juniper.
>>>>>
>>>>> Michael
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm working on a Nahua-inspired lullaby poem.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you kindly,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cindy WG
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Nahuatl mailing list
>>>>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>>>>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Nahuatl mailing list
>>>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>>>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nahuatl mailing list
>>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nahuatl mailing list
>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>



_______________________________________________
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From mmccaffe at indiana.edu  Fri Oct 15 00:58:39 2010
From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2010 20:58:39 -0400
Subject: Translation Assistance for Nahua-inspired Lullaby
In-Reply-To: <20101012105234.lyiqgpub0gwk04gw@webmail.iu.edu>
Message-ID: <THU.14.OCT.2010.205839.0400.MMCCAFFE@INDIANA.EDU>

Quoting "Campbell,  R. Joe" <campbel at indiana.edu>:

> Quoting Michael McCafferty <mmccaffe at indiana.edu>:
>
>> Quoting "Campbell,  R. Joe" <campbel at indiana.edu>:
>>
>>> Cindy,
>>>
>>>   Michael has already offered the answer with his "pochotl" and "ahuehuetl"
>>> (note lack of vowel length).
>>
>> Quematzin. Was lazy about providing vowel length for this kind of
>> enterprise.
>> :-)
>>
>>
> When I pointed out the lack of vowel length, it did not occur to me
> that I seemed to onicmahpilhuih Michael as if he were tlahtlacoani...
> I merely meant to "point out" my own decision not to specify vowel
> length (as is my wont).
>

Nay, Joe. In my case, it never ceases to amaze me that, while having 
cut my teeth on Algonquian, where vowel length is next to *godliness*, 
I can easily forgo *writing* it in Nahuatl.

I wanted to point out a typo in the translation for Cindy.

Xinechchihuacan should be Tinechchihuacan.


Michael



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From cuecuex at gmail.com  Wed Oct 20 04:02:10 2010
From: cuecuex at gmail.com (roberto romero)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 23:02:10 -0500
Subject: Una traducci=?iso-8859-1?Q?=F3n_de_un_top=F3nimo_?= otomi
Message-ID: <TUE.19.OCT.2010.230210.0500.CUECUEX@GMAIL.COM>

Hola
Esta consulta es del idioma otomi aparovechando que en este foro participa D
Wrigth
La pregunta es cual seria la traducción de Andamatzitzi o antamatzitzi y
cuales los vocablos otomis que lo forman
El término me recuerda fonéticamente el de la denominación de Querétaro :
AndaMahey o antâmaxey.
Agradeciendo de antemano su atención y respuesta.
Roberto Romero G.
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From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx  Wed Oct 20 15:57:56 2010
From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 10:57:56 -0500
Subject: Una traducci=?iso-8859-1?Q?=F3n_de_un_top=F3nimo_?= otomi
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinwi4KQwO7Jh618XgpkgaXcyKfusBura93jbAVr@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <WED.20.OCT.2010.105756.0500.DCWRIGHT@PRODIGY.NET.MX>

Estimado Roberto:

 

Apunto a continuacion el resultado de mis intentos de analizar cada uno de
los dos toponimos que mencionas, partiendo de los textos en otomi del Codice
de Huichapan, un manuscrito alfabetico y pictorico de hacia 1632.

 

************************************

Variantes del toponimo: antämatzittzi/antamatzittzi/[borrado]amatzittzi

 

Lugares en el manuscrito donde se encuentra: ff. 1r (sin año; segundo
renglon); 1v (1579); 2r (1595); 4r (1629); 4v (1631); 5v (lista de
toponimos); 12v (1423); 14v (1432).

 

Vesion fonemica: antämatsits’i (dieresis = vocal nasal; apostrofo = oclusiva
glotal)

 

Analisis morfologico: an + tä + ma + tsits’i

prefijo sustantivo singular - adjetivo: “grande” - prefijo locativo - verbo:
“empapar”

 

Traduccion: “el gran lugar empapado”

 

Comentarios: Antämatsits’i es el nombre antiguo en otomi de Huichapan, como
se desprende de los contextos en los cuales aparece en el Codice de
Huichapan. Esta identificacion es confirmada en una gramatica otomi del
siglo XVI (Carceres, 1907: 106) y en el f. 16r del Codice Pedro Martin de
Toro (Martin de la Puente, c 1650-1696; 2000). El toponimo nahuatl
Hueichiapan significa “gran lugar de humedad”.

************************************

 

************************************

Variantes del toponimo: antamaxëy/[roto]ntämaxëy/antämaxëy

 

Lugares en el manuscrito donde se encuentra: ff. 1r (1555, 1557); 2v (1607);
3r (1611).

 

Version fonemica: antämaxëi

 

Analisis morfologico: an + tä + ma + xëi

prefijo sustantivo singular - adjetivo: “grande” - prefijo locativo -
sustantivo: “pelota de caucho”

 

Traduccion: “el gran lugar del juego de pelota”

 

Comentarios: Antämaxëi es Queretaro (Carceres, 1907: 46, 47). Los tarascos
llamaban el mismo pueblo Querehtaro, “lugar de la cancha del juego de
pelota” (Gilberti, 1990: 49r). Los nahuas le decian Tlachco, “en el juego de
pelota” (Urquiola, sin fecha: 101).

************************************

 

************************************

Fuentes citadas

 

Carceres, Pedro de, “Arte de la lengua othomi”, Nicolas Leon, editor, en
Boletin del Instituto Bibliografico Mexicano, no. 6, 1907, pp. 39-155.

 

Codice de Huichapan, Biblioteca Nacional de Antropologia e Historia, Mexico,
Testimonios pictograficos, no. 35-60, c  1632.

 

Gilberti, Maturino, Vocabulario en lengua de Mechuacan, facsimil de la ed.
de 1559, Mexico, Centro de Estudios de Historia de Mexico Condumex, 1990.

 

Martin de la Puente, Francisco, Codice Pedro Martin de Toro, Archivo General
de la Nacion, Mexico, fondo Real Audiencia, serie Tierras, vol. 1783,
expediente 1, c 1650-1696, ff. 16r-24r.

 

Martin de la Puente, Francisco, “Martin, manuscrito en otomi y español de
Francisco Martin de la Puente”, 2a. ed. digital, David Charles Wright Carr,
estudio y version paleografica, en Sup-Infor, Editions sur Supports
Informatiques (http://www.sup-infor.com; actualización: 2000; acceso: 15
jun. 2009).

 

Urquiola Permisán, José Ignacio (editor), Primeras noticias sobre la
conquista, posesion, limites y encomenderos del pueblo de Queretaro,
Queretaro, H. Ayuntamiento, Municipio de Queretaro, sin fecha.

************************************

 

Lo anterior es un extracto de mi tesis: David Charles Wright Carr, Los
otomies: cultura, lengua y escritura, 2 vols., Zamora, Doctorado en Ciencias
Sociales, El Colegio de Michoacan, 2005.

 

Espero que los apuntes anteriores te sean de utilidad.

 

Saludos desde Guanajuato,

 

David

 

De: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org [mailto:nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org]
En nombre de roberto romero
Enviado el: martes, 19 de octubre de 2010 23:02
Para: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
Asunto: [Nahuat-l] Una traducción de un topónimo otomi

 

Hola 

Esta consulta es del idioma otomi aparovechando que en este foro participa D
Wrigth

La pregunta es cual seria la traducción de Andamatzitzi o antamatzitzi y
cuales los vocablos otomis que lo forman 

El término me recuerda fonéticamente el de la denominación de Querétaro :
AndaMahey o antâmaxey.

Agradeciendo de antemano su atención y respuesta.

Roberto Romero G.

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From cuecuex at gmail.com  Thu Oct 21 05:28:35 2010
From: cuecuex at gmail.com (roberto romero)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 00:28:35 -0500
Subject: Una traduccion de un top=?iso-8859-1?Q?=F3nimo_?= otomi 2
Message-ID: <THU.21.OCT.2010.002835.0500.CUECUEX@GMAIL.COM>

Envio este mail por segunda vez por haber recibido un mensaje de fallo  en
la direccion de nahuatl-bounces at list.famsi.org
si les llego el primero por favor  obvien este segundo
David agradezco su gentil respuesta
Me dices que etimologicamente en otomi y en nahuatl Huichapan es el gran
lugar empapado
Yo pensaba que el nombre de Huichapan tenia que ver con la semilla conocida
como Chia.
De donde Huichapan sería: El gran sitio de la Chia, entendiendo esto, como
el gran o el antiguo sembrado o lugar donde se siembra Chia pues esta planta
no es silvestre se cultiva
Mientras que consideraba que Chiapan hoy Chapa de Mota, otro lugar otomi
sería el lugar de la Chia o en sentido mas amplio, el lugar del sembrado de
Chia, siento éste el lugar "moderno" de donde se obtenia esta semilla en los
siglos XV y XVI .

Como sabes la Chia que también se escribe como chiyan fue una semillita
multiusos en el mundo prehispánico consumida de diversas formas como
alimento, usada como oleaginosa, medicinal y ahora casi está en desuso y
reducida a planta que adorna figuritas de barro o de medias de mujer o
imágenes de cuadros y que a veces en algunos sitios acompaña y hace mas rica
el agua de limón
Me sorprende que Huichapan sea llamado el gran lugar empapado.
En las veces que he ido a ese lugar del estado de Hidalgo lo recuerdo como
un sitio bastante seco y caluroso con fuentes termales en su territorio y
ruinas prehispanicas en sus alrededores estudiadas por la ENAH.
Si me hablas de Chiapas la entidad del sur de México no pongo en duda su
humedad y que este empapado pero esas cualidades geográficas en ésta parte
de la árida región norte del Valle del Mezquital situado a unos cuantos
kilometros del semidesierto queretano, cubierto tambien por la "sombra" de
la sierra gorda por ello seco , en verdad hasta me parece un toponimo lleno
de ironía y sorna que Huichapan sea el gran lugar empapado
No dudo de tu escrupulosa traducción pero algo no me cuadra en el resultado
No tengo la matricula de tributos o el códice mendocino pero recuerdo haber
visto en ella que los otomies tributaban chia a los colhuas mexicas y creo
que a lo mejor otros que lo hacian eran los matalatzincas del valle deToluca
pero nadie mas.
Tezozomoc en su Crónica Mexicana narra el tributo que los vencidos otomies
daban a los colhuas mexicas y en ellos destaca a la chian o chian
En la cronica X se les llama chiapanecos a los otomis
Tezozomoc señala tambien el tributo del michihuatli que en la edición que
tengo se le traduce como amaranto ??? y como "bledo de pescado" !!??
atendiendo a la presencia de michi, que yo creo que realmente se trata de la
hueva del pescado que todavia se come en distintas regiones del país o de
los huevos de mosco lagunar pues el ahautli o hueva de mosco con ese nombre
lo compraba en el mercado de Jamaica o la merced en la ciudad de México para
hacer tortitas para los "romeritos" : un guisado a base de la hierba de
romero guisada con mole, nopales tortitas de ahuatli. mmm mmm Chompi chompi

Tampoco encuentro en el significado que resulta de traducir Huichapan como
gran lugar empapado ese sentido figurativo que existe en el nombre de
Querétaro cuyo significado es el gran juego de pelota.
Como sabemos nunca existio tal juego de pelota como construcción humana y
producto cultural en el lugar que es ahora Queretaro ni en la cienega donde
está ubicada la ciudad colonial ni en la cañada .
Le llamaban el gran juego de pelota a la estrecha cañada o barranca en que
asentaron chichimecas nahuas, otomis y de otras lenguas.
Las paredes de la barranca, la forma de esta mas estrecha en su base les
parecía o les recordaba a los indios la construcción de un juego de pelota.
La pregunta final es como se escribia o se decia esea semilla llamada Chia
en el otomi del XVI quizas se sigue diciendo igual en la actualidad.
gracias
Roberto Romero Gutiérrez
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From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx  Thu Oct 21 16:27:24 2010
From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 11:27:24 -0500
Subject: Una traduccion de un top=?iso-8859-1?Q?=F3nimo_?= otomi (A)
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTincNa3tr2AL+1uWLOCno+Vi8c_D6NQv0EmXNt-t@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <THU.21.OCT.2010.112724.0500.DCWRIGHT@PRODIGY.NET.MX>

Muy estimado Roberto:

Tus preguntas sobre la etimologia del toponimo Huichapan son buenas. Las
mismas pasaron por mi mente. Descarte la hipotesis de las semillas de chia
despues de pasar unos dias hurgando en las fuentes que tenia a la mano, en
busca de pistas que me dieran alguna luz. La huella de este proceso esta en
una nota a pie de pagina en un apendice de la misma tesis que estaba citando
en mi mensaje de ayer (vease abajo, al final del apartado "Referencias"). Se
reproduce esta nota al final del presente mensaje. La tome de la version
revisada de mi tesis, la cual tiene algunas adiciones y correcciones
respecto a la version de 2005.

Aparte de suprimir los acentos ortograficos en el texto en castellano, tuve
que quitar los subrayados en algunas voces otomies, debido a las
limitaciones tecnicas de este medio de comunicacion.

Solo agregare aqui que hay varias "oasis" en el Valle del Mezquital y zonas
colindantes, donde el agua mana (o erupta) de la madre tierra. Por razones
evidentes suelen coincidir con los asentamientos humanos, como Aculco, San
Jose Atlan, Huichapan, Tecozautla, Ixmiquilpan, Actopan, etcetera. Muchos
toponimos en esta region, en otomi y en nahuatl, se refieren directa o
indirectamente a estas humedades.

******************************************************

Antämatsits’i, “el gran lugar empapado”, es el nombre antiguo en otomi para
Huichapan, como se desprende de los contextos en los cuales aparece en el
Codice de Huichapan. Esta identificacion es confirmada en una gramatica
otomi del siglo XVI (Carceres, 1907: 106) y en el f. 16r del Codice Pedro
Martin de Toro (Martin de la Puente, c 1650-1696; 2000). En el siglo XVIII
este toponimo se habia perdido, por el uso de un prestamo del castellano:
Sanchez de Baquera (1747: 86) registra la voz Xänmätho (“San Mateo”, patron
del pueblo). Para 1826 esta palabra habia sufrido una ligera sincopa,
quedando como Xa matho (Lopez Yepes, 1826: 172). Urbano (1990: 362v) incluye
“natzhittzi” entre las traducciones otomies de la voz castellana “regadura”.
El mismo autor (1990: 402r) hace equivalentes las palabras atocpa qualli
tlalli (en nahuatl) y matsits’i (en otomi), bajo la frase castellana “Tierra
buena y fertil”. En un lexicon del siglo XVIII encontramos la entrada
“Tzi-tzi.................empapar” (Buelna [editor], 1893: 207). Lopes Yepes
(1826: 146) registra la palabra “tziitzi” bajo “Empapar”. El mismo autor
(1826: 134) traduce Chapantongo como mazitsi. El toponimo nahuatl
Hueichiapan significa “gran lugar de humedad”. Carrasco, con base en las
traducciones que se hacen de varios toponimos en las relaciones geograficas
del siglo XVI (Chiapan, Chiauhtlan, Chiapulco y Chauatl), demuestra que
comparten el significado de “cienaga”, “humedad” o “agua”, y que los signos
graficos centromexicanos para Chiapan y Teochiapan en el Codice mendocino y
el Codice telleriano-remensis expresan los mismos conceptos (Carrasco, 1996:
363, 364). Con base en estos argumentos, parece poco probable que estos
toponimos contengan el concepto de chia/chian/chiantli, “planta con semillas
aceitosas”, como han dicho varios autores (por ejemplo
Azcue/Toussaint/Fernandez, 1940-1942: I, 335). En otro trabajo, Carrasco
(1998: 28) relaciona acertadamente el toponimo otomi Antämatsits’i con
Hueichiapan; tambien detecta la analogia entre Matsits’i y Chiapantonco, y
la correspondencia entre Chiapan Tepeticpac (“tierra de humedad-cumbre del
cerro”) y el toponimo otomi para el mismo lugar, Anyänt’oho (“la cumbre del
cerro”). Antämatsits’i (Huichapan) se puede traducir como “el gran lugar
empapado”, mientras Matsits’i (Chapantongo) significa simplemente “lugar
empapado”. Una contraposicion similar se da en los significados de los
toponimos equivalentes en nahuatl: Hueichiapan (“gran lugar de humedad”) y
Chiapantonco (“pequeño lugar de humedad”). Chiapan significa, entonces, “en
la humedad”. Los tres pueblos, Huichapan, Chapantongo y Chapa de Mota,
tenian manantiales y tierras de regadio en el siglo XVI (Ciudad Real, 1976:
I, 138; Paso y Troncoso [editor], 1905: 59, 60). En las relaciones
geograficas de Yetecomac y Hueipochtlan, el toponimo Chiapan es traducido
“mancha de agua” (Contreras Figueroa, 1986: 133, 142). Acuña piensa que este
pueblo es Huichapan (Acuña [editor], 1985, 1986: III, 127 [nota 7]), en
parte por la afirmacion en la relacion de Yetecomac de que “dista desde
pu[ebl]o, el de Chiapa[n], diez leguas hacia la parte del poniente”
(Contreras Figueroa, 1986: 134). Sin embargo Huichapan se encuentra al
Noroeste de Yetecomac, y Chapa de Mota queda al suroeste, mas o menos a la
misma distancia, restando fuerza al argumento de Acuña. El vocabulario de
Molina no aporta informacion lexica clara para interpretar el toponimo
Chiapan, pero tiene algunas palabras que quiza esten relacionadas con dicho
toponimo: chapani, “mojarse mucho, o caer en tierra la massa, el lodo o
cosas semejantes”; chapania, “echar en el suelo, o por ay lodo massa o cosa
semejante”; chapanqui, “cosa muy mojada”; chiaua, “mancharse alguna cosa”;
chiauac, “cosa grasienta”; chiauizatl, “sanguaza”; chiauiztli, “humor”
(Molina, 1571b, 19r, 19v; sobre la fonologia de estas palabras, vease
Karttunen, 1992: 46, 54). Hay signos pintados, glosados Chiapan y
Teochiapan, en el Codice mendocino (Berdan/Anawalt [editoras], 1992: 13r
[“chiapan”], 16r [“teochiapan”]) y el Codice telleriano-remensis (Quiñones
[editora], 1995: 39v [“chiapa que es cabe jilotepec”]). La identificacion de
los asentamientos correspondientes no se puede hacer con confianza. El
segundo (Teochiapan) aparece junto a Tecozauhtla, y el tercero (Chiapan) es
de la provincia de Xilotepec, por lo que cualquiera de los dos podrian
indentificarse con Chapa de Mota, Chapantongo o Huichapan.

REFERENCIAS

Acuña, Rene (editor)
1985, 1986 Relaciones geograficas del siglo XVI: Mexico, 3 vols., Mexico,
Instituto de Investigaciones Antropologicas, Universidad Nacional Autonoma
de Mexico.

Azcue y Mancera, Luis; Toussaint, Manuel; Fernandez, Justino (editores)
1940-1942 Catalogo de construcciones religiosas del estado de Hidalgo,
formada por la comision de inventarios de la primera zona, 1929-1932, 2
vols., Mexico, Direccion General de Bienes Nacionales, Secretaria de
Hacienda y Credito Publico.

Berdan, Frances F.; Anawalt, Patricia Rieff (editoras)
1992 The Codex Mendoza, facsimil del ms., vol. 3, Berkeley/Los
Angeles/Oxford, University of California Press.

Buelna, Eustaquio (editor)
1893 Luces del otomi o gramatica del idioma que hablan los indios otomies en
la Republica Mexicana, compuesta por un padre de la Compañia de Jesus,
Mexico, Imprenta del Gobierno Federal.

Carceres, Pedro de
1907 “Arte de la lengua othomi”, Nicolas Leon, editor, en Boletin del
Instituto Bibliografico Mexicano, no. 6, pp. 39-155.

Carrasco Pizana, Pedro
1996 Estructura politico-territorial del imperio tenochca, la Triple Alianza
de Tenochtitlan, Tetzcoco y Tlacopan, Mexico, El Colegio de
Mexico/Fideicomiso Historia de las Americas/Fondo de Cultura Economica.
1998 “Los otopames en la historia antigua de Mesoamerica”, en Estudios de
Cultura Otopame (Instituto de Investigaciones Antropologicas, Universidad
Nacional Autonoma de Mexico), no. 1, pp. 17-51.

Ciudad Real, Antonio de
1976 Tratado curioso y docto de las grandezas de la Nueva España, relacion
breve y verdadera de algunas cosas de las muchas que sucedieron al padre
Alonso Ponce en las provincias de la Nueva España siendo comisario general
de aquellas partes, 2 vols., Josefina Garcia Quintana y Victor M. Castillo
Farreras, editores, Mexico, Instituto de Investigaciones Historicas,
Universidad Nacional Autonoma de Mexico.

Contreras Figueroa, Alonso de
1986 “Relacion de Tolnacuchtla y su partido”, en Relaciones geograficas del
siglo XVI: Mexico, vol. 3, Rene Acuña, editor, Mexico, Instituto de
Investigaciones Antropologicas, Universidad Nacional Autonoma de Mexico, pp.
115-154.

Karttunen, Frances
1992 An analytical dictionary of Nahuatl, 2a. ed., Norman, University of
Oklahoma Press.

Lopez Yepes, Joaquin
1826 Catecismo y declaracion de la doctrina cristiana en lengua otomi, con
un vocabulario del mismo idioma, Mexico, Oficina del Ciudadano Alejandro
Valdes.

Martin de la Puente, Francisco
c 1650-1696	Codice Pedro Martin de Toro, Archivo General de la Nacion,
Mexico, fondo Real Audiencia, serie Tierras, vol. 1783, expediente 1, ff.
16r-24r.
2000 “Martin, manuscrito en otomi y español de Francisco Martin de la
Puente”, 2a. ed. digital, David Charles Wright Carr, estudio y version
paleografica, en Sup-Infor, Editions sur Supports Informatiques
(http://www.sup-infor.com; actualizacion: 2000; acceso: 15 jun. 2009).

Molina, Alonso de
1571a Vocabulario en lengua castellana y mexicana, Mexico, Casa de Antonio
de Espinosa.
1571b Vocabulario en lengua mexicana y castellana, Mexico, Casa de Antonio
de Espinosa.

Paso y Troncoso, Francisco del (editor)
1905 Papeles de Nueva España, segunda serie, geografia y estadistica, tomo
I, suma de visitas de pueblos por orden alfabetico, manuscrito 2.800 de la
Biblioteca Nacional de Madrid, anonimo de la mitad del siglo XVI, Madrid,
Establecimiento Tip[ografico] “Sucesores de Rivadeneyra”.

Quiñones Keber, Eloise (editora)
1995 Codex telleriano-remensis: ritual, divination and history in a
pictorial Aztec manuscript, facsimil del ms., Austin, University of Texas
Press.

Sanchez de la Baquera, Juan
1747 Modo breve de aprender a leer, escribir, pronunciar y hablar el idioma
otomi, en el cual se contiene su ortografia, arte, y modo de conjugar, y un
confesionario con examen de conciencia, Chicago, The Newberry Library, Ayer
ms. 1650.

Urbano, Alonso
1990 Arte breve de la lengua otomi y vocabulario trilingüe
español-nahuatl-otomi, facsimil del ms., Rene Acuña, estudio, Mexico,
Instituto de Investigaciones Filologicas, Universidad Nacional Autonoma de
Mexico.

Wright Carr, David Charles
2005 Los otomies: cultura, lengua y escritura, 2 vols., tesis, Zamora,
Doctorado en Ciencias Sociales, El Colegio de Michoacan.

******************************************************

De: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org [mailto:nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org]
En nombre de roberto romero
Enviado el: jueves, 21 de octubre de 2010 00:29
Para: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
Asunto: [Nahuat-l] Una traduccion de un toponimo otomi 2

Envio este mail por segunda vez por haber recibido un mensaje de fallo  en
la direccion de nahuatl-bounces at list.famsi.org
si les llego el primero por favor  obvien este segundo
David agradezco su gentil respuesta  
Me dices que etimologicamente en otomi y en nahuatl Huichapan es el gran
lugar empapado 
Yo pensaba que el nombre de Huichapan tenia que ver con la semilla conocida
como Chia.
De donde Huichapan seria: El gran sitio de la Chia, entendiendo esto, como
el gran o el antiguo sembrado o lugar donde se siembra Chia pues esta planta
no es silvestre se cultiva 
Mientras que consideraba que Chiapan hoy Chapa de Mota, otro lugar otomi
seria el lugar de la Chia o en sentido mas amplio, el lugar del sembrado de
Chia, siento este el lugar "moderno" de donde se obtenia esta semilla en los
siglos XV y XVI .

Como sabes la Chia que tambien se escribe como chiyan fue una semillita
multiusos en el mundo prehispanico consumida de diversas formas como
alimento, usada como oleaginosa, medicinal y ahora casi esta en desuso y
reducida a planta que adorna figuritas de barro o de medias de mujer o
imagenes de cuadros y que a veces en algunos sitios acompaña y hace mas rica
el agua de limon
Me sorprende que Huichapan sea llamado el gran lugar empapado. 
En las veces que he ido a ese lugar del estado de Hidalgo lo recuerdo como
un sitio bastante seco y caluroso con fuentes termales en su territorio y
ruinas prehispanicas en sus alrededores estudiadas por la ENAH.
Si me hablas de Chiapas la entidad del sur de Mexico no pongo en duda su
humedad y que este empapado pero esas cualidades geograficas en esta parte
de la arida region norte del Valle del Mezquital situado a unos cuantos
kilometros del semidesierto queretano, cubierto tambien por la "sombra" de
la sierra gorda por ello seco , en verdad hasta me parece un toponimo lleno
de ironia y sorna que Huichapan sea el gran lugar empapado 
No dudo de tu escrupulosa traduccion pero algo no me cuadra en el resultado 
No tengo la matricula de tributos o el codice mendocino pero recuerdo haber
visto en ella que los otomies tributaban chia a los colhuas mexicas y creo
que a lo mejor otros que lo hacian eran los matalatzincas del valle deToluca
pero nadie mas. 
Tezozomoc en su Cronica Mexicana narra el tributo que los vencidos otomies
daban a los colhuas mexicas y en ellos destaca a la chian o chian
En la cronica X se les llama chiapanecos a los otomis
Tezozomoc señala tambien el tributo del michihuatli que en la edicion que
tengo se le traduce como amaranto ??? y como "bledo de pescado" !!??
atendiendo a la presencia de michi, que yo creo que realmente se trata de la
hueva del pescado que todavia se come en distintas regiones del pais o de
los huevos de mosco lagunar pues el ahautli o hueva de mosco con ese nombre
lo compraba en el mercado de Jamaica o la merced en la ciudad de Mexico para
hacer tortitas para los "romeritos" : un guisado a base de la hierba de
romero guisada con mole, nopales tortitas de ahuatli. mmm mmm Chompi chompi
 
Tampoco encuentro en el significado que resulta de traducir Huichapan como
gran lugar empapado ese sentido figurativo que existe en el nombre de
Queretaro cuyo significado es el gran juego de pelota. 
Como sabemos nunca existio tal juego de pelota como construccion humana y
producto cultural en el lugar que es ahora Queretaro ni en la cienega donde
esta ubicada la ciudad colonial ni en la cañada . 
Le llamaban el gran juego de pelota a la estrecha cañada o barranca en que
asentaron chichimecas nahuas, otomis y de otras lenguas. 
Las paredes de la barranca, la forma de esta mas estrecha en su base les
parecia o les recordaba a los indios la construccion de un juego de pelota.
La pregunta final es como se escribia o se decia esea semilla llamada Chia
en el otomi del XVI quizas se sigue diciendo igual en la actualidad.
gracias 
Roberto Romero Gutierrez


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Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx  Thu Oct 21 16:28:02 2010
From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 11:28:02 -0500
Subject: Una traduccion de un top=?iso-8859-1?Q?=F3nimo_?= otomi (B)
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTincNa3tr2AL+1uWLOCno+Vi8c_D6NQv0EmXNt-t@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <THU.21.OCT.2010.112802.0500.DCWRIGHT@PRODIGY.NET.MX>

Roberto:

En cuanto a Queretaro, apunto otra nota a pie de pagina de un apendice de la
version revisada de mi tesis:

Hoy la palabra xëi significa “perforar” y “escarbar” en el otomi del
Mezquital (Hernandez/Victoria/Sinclair, 2004: 356). Urbano (1990: 193r)
registra el morfema xëi en las glosas de “Escarvar tierra o cosa assi”,
“Escarvada tierra”, “Escarvadura” y “Escarvador”. Un morfema homofono, asi
como su variante fonetica ts’ëi (escrita “tzhëy”) aparece en las palabras
para “Iuego de pelota con las nalgas”, “Iugador tal” [“a la pelota con las
nalgas”, palabras tachadas] y “Pelota para jugar al batey” (Urbano, 1990:
247r, 248r, 330v). Antämaxëi, “el gran lugar del juego de pelota”, es
Queretaro (Carceres, 1907: 46, 47; Sanchez de la Baquera, 1747: 101). El
autor de la Relacion geografica de Queretaro explica: “porque en sus juegos
y pasatiempos tenian un cercado hecho de unas paredes vajas a do jugavan a
la pelota con las nalgas, de un betun que salta llamado ule y el dicho juego
de la pelota o cercado se llama en la dicha lengua otomi maxei y assi llaman
en la dicha lengua otomi al pueblo de queretaro anda maxei que quiere dezir
el mayor juego de pelota y llamaronle asi porque las dichas peñas adonde
primero poblo el dicho yndio conni con su gente tenian la faicion y hechura
del cercado do jugavan a la pelota” (Ramos, 1582: 2r; 1989: 123). Los
tarascos llamaban el mismo pueblo Querehtaro, “lugar de la cancha del juego
de pelota” (Gilberti, 1990: 49r; 1997: 142). Los nahuas le decian Tlachco,
“en el juego de pelota” (Urquiola, sin fecha: 101). Los otomies del sur del
estado de Queretaro llaman Maxei a la capital del estado (Hekking, 1995: 19;
Hekking/Andres de Jesus, 1989: 159). En el Mezquital la palabra para
Queretaro conserva el morfema aumentativo, aunque la palabra Antämaxëi ha
sido sincopada desde mediados del siglo XVIII, quedando como Ndämxëi
(Hernandez/Victoria/Sinclair, 2004: 192; Lopez Yepes, 1826: 219; Neve y
Molina, 1767: 78, Wallis, 1956: 158). En el habla del Mezquital Maxëi es
Tasquillo (el Tlachco chico), un pueblo ubicado al noroeste de Ixmiquilpan
(Hernandez/Victoria/Sinclair, 2004: 150; Wallis, 1956: 158).

REFERENCIAS

Carceres, Pedro de
1907 “Arte de la lengua othomi”, Nicolas Leon, editor, en Boletin del
Instituto Bibliografico Mexicano, no. 6, pp. 39-155.

Gilberti, Maturino
1990 Vocabulario en lengua de Mechuacan, facsimil de la ed. de 1559, Mexico,
Centro de Estudios de Historia de Mexico Condumex.
1997 Vocabulario en lengua de Mechuacan, Agustin Jacinto Zavala, paleografo,
Zamora/Mexico, El Colegio de Michoacan/Fideicomiso Teixidor.

Hekking, Ewald Ferdinand Rudolf
1995 El otomi de Santiago Mexquititlan: desplazamiento lingüistico,
prestamos y cambios gramaticales, Amsterdam, Institute for Functional
Research into Language and Language Use, Universiteit van Amsterdam.

Hekking, Ewald Ferdinand Rudolf; Andres de Jesus, Severiano.
1989 Diccionario español-otomi de Santiago Mexquititlan, Queretaro, Centro
de Estudios Lingüisticos y Literarios, Universidad Autonoma de Queretaro.

Hernandez Cruz, Luis; Victoria Torquemada, Moises; Sinclair Crawford, Donald
1998 Diccionario hñähñu del valle del Mezquital, estado de Hidalgo, Mexico,
version xerografica preliminar, Ixmiquilpan, Instituto Lingüistico de
Verano/Academia de Cultura Hñähñu.

Lopez Yepes, Joaquin
1826 Catecismo y declaracion de la doctrina cristiana en lengua otomi, con
un vocabulario del mismo idioma, Mexico, Oficina del Ciudadano Alejandro
Valdes.

Neve y Molina, Luis de
1767 Reglas de orthografia, diccionario y arte del idioma othomi, breve
instruccion para los principiantes, Mexico, Imprenta de la Bibliotheca
Mexicana.

Ramos de Cardenas, Francisco
1582 Relacion geografica de Queretaro, University of Texas at Austin, Benson
Latin American Collection, Joaquin Garcia Icazbalceta Collection, vol. 24,
documento no. 17.
1989 “Relacion geografica de Queretaro (1582)”, en David Charles Wright
Carr, Queretaro en el siglo XVI, fuentes documentales primarias, Queretaro,
Secretaria de Cultura y Bienestar Social, Gobierno del Estado de Queretaro,
pp. 93-219.

Sanchez de la Baquera, Juan
1747 Modo breve de aprender a leer, escribir, pronunciar y hablar el idioma
otomi, en el cual se contiene su ortografia, arte, y modo de conjugar, y un
confesionario con examen de conciencia, Chicago, The Newberry Library, Ayer
ms. 1650.

Urbano, Alonso
1990 Arte breve de la lengua otomi y vocabulario trilingüe
español-nahuatl-otomi, facsimil del ms., Rene Acuña, estudio, Mexico,
Instituto de Investigaciones Filologicas, Universidad Nacional Autonoma de
Mexico.

Urquiola Permisan, Jose Ignacio (editor)
sin fecha Primeras noticias sobre la conquista, posesion, limites y
encomenderos del pueblo de Queretaro, Jose Ignacio Urquiola Permisan,
estudio; Martha Carreño Lopez, Jose Andres Landaverde Rivera, Alejandra
Medina Medina y Jose Ignacio Urquiola Permisan, paleografia, Queretaro, H.
Ayuntamiento, Municipio de Queretaro.

Wallis, Ethel Emilia
1956 “Toponimia otomi del valle del Mezquital”, en Revista Mexicana de
Estudios Antropologicos (Sociedad Mexicana de Antropologia), vol. 14, 1a.
parte, pp. 153-160.

Wright Carr, David Charles
2005 Los otomies: cultura, lengua y escritura, 2 vols., tesis, Zamora,
Doctorado en Ciencias Sociales, El Colegio de Michoacan.

******************************************************

De: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org [mailto:nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org]
En nombre de roberto romero
Enviado el: jueves, 21 de octubre de 2010 00:29
Para: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
Asunto: [Nahuat-l] Una traduccion de un toponimo otomi 2

[
]

Como sabemos nunca existio tal juego de pelota como construccion humana y
producto cultural en el lugar que es ahora Queretaro ni en la cienega donde
esta ubicada la ciudad colonial ni en la cañada . 
Le llamaban el gran juego de pelota a la estrecha cañada o barranca en que
asentaron chichimecas nahuas, otomis y de otras lenguas. 
Las paredes de la barranca, la forma de esta mas estrecha en su base les
parecia o les recordaba a los indios la construccion de un juego de pelota.


_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx  Thu Oct 21 16:32:49 2010
From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 11:32:49 -0500
Subject: Una traduccion de un top=?iso-8859-1?Q?=F3nimo_?= otomi (C)
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTincNa3tr2AL+1uWLOCno+Vi8c_D6NQv0EmXNt-t@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <THU.21.OCT.2010.113249.0500.DCWRIGHT@PRODIGY.NET.MX>

Roberto:

Respondo a tu pregunta final:

No encuentro la palabra para chia en el vocabulario trilingüe de Alonso
Urbano. Tal vez se encuentre en algun otro lexicon antiguo, pero por el
momento no te puedo proporcionar el dato. En el Diccionario del hñähñu
(otomi) del Valle del Mezquital encontramos la voz k'u. Este diccionario,
uno de los mas completos sobre una variante moderna del otomi, es ahora
disponible en linea de manera gratuita, en formato PDF:

http://www.sil.org/americas/mexico/otopame/mezquital/S045a-DicOtomiMezq-ote.
htm

Saludos,

David Wright

******************************************************
De: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org [mailto:nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org]
En nombre de roberto romero
Enviado el: jueves, 21 de octubre de 2010 00:29
Para: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
Asunto: [Nahuat-l] Una traduccion de un toponimo otomi 2

[...]

La pregunta final es como se escribia o se decia esea semilla llamada Chia
en el otomi del XVI quizas se sigue diciendo igual en la actualidad.

gracias 
Roberto Romero Gutierrez


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From cuecuex at gmail.com  Mon Oct 25 06:50:52 2010
From: cuecuex at gmail.com (roberto romero)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 01:50:52 -0500
Subject: pedernal y conejo
Message-ID: <MON.25.OCT.2010.015052.0500.CUECUEX@GMAIL.COM>

David Wright

Para los navegantes de Internet tu nos hiciste el favor de publicar una
versión del Códice de Huichapan que esta en formato zip. Esa versión que
descargue tiene dos archivos zip Cod_huic y Cod_huic.ine. Esta último
corresponde a la bibliografia y el primero al texto del citado códice

En el Folio 11 de tu versión aparece y lo copio con cut and paste no lo
transcribo

1. Antoqhuay Enero

Sin embargo al comparar este linea con la traduccion de Ecker que publico la
UNAM en esta se lee:

Enero
1 Antoqhuay pedernal
an to-khwai

Una lectura descuidada lleva a pensar que tu traduces Antoqhuay como Enero

Me parece que no es así y lo que leemos como traducción debo suponer que se
debe a un error al dar formato al documento

Lo que tu elegiste hacer en tu edición del códice fue no anotar la tradución
de cada día de ese mes de enero como viene en la edición de Ecker Tu
transcribes literalmente el texto que viene en el manuscrito sea este otomi
o castellano o latino pero no traduces

1.- La primer pregunta es Estoy en lo correcto en esta observación.

Lo que hace Ecker en su edición también es darnos las palabras que
construyen el término.

Así Ancãndehe viene de An Kã n dehe y es aguador y en el caso que nos
ocupa:
Antoqhuay es An - to - khwai ( Este lo traduce pedernal [el día 1de enero]
pero tambien lo traduce como cuchilo de pedernal [el día 21 de enero] .

En el día 10 que Ecker traduce como conejo el termino es

Anqhua el cual en la misma operación de enseñar las palabras que dan origen
al termino este resulta en: an Khwa

Me llama mucho la atención que en ambas palabras Pedernal y conejo el primer
elemento es an y que en ambas palabras el último elemento es casi el mismo
Qhuay (Khwai) en pedernal y Qhua (khwa) en conejo

Pareciera que estan muy relacionados en otomi las palabras conejo y pedernal
. Su sonido y su escritura en caracteres latinos son muy parecidos

2.- Existe esta relación de homofonia y cuasi homo escritura entre
 Qhuay (pedernal) y Qhua(conejo)

3..- La letra Y presente al final de Qhuay (pedernal) es un fonema que
altera el significado de qhua (conejo)

Gracias como siempre por tu tiempo y respuesta

Roberto Romero Gutierrez
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From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx  Mon Oct 25 15:20:52 2010
From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 10:20:52 -0500
Subject: pedernal y conejo
Message-ID: <MON.25.OCT.2010.102052.0500.DCWRIGHT@PRODIGY.NET.MX>

Estimado Roberto:

 

Tienes razon; lo que publique en SUP-INFOR es solo la version paleografica
de los textos alfabeticos del Codice de Huichapan, sin traduccion. En el
cuadro que mencionas trate de apegarme en lo posible al formato
correspondiente en el manuscrito original, donde la informacion se presenta
en varias columnas. Hasta ahora no existe una traduccion completa de los
textos en otomi de este manuscrito que sea confiable. Esto se debe
principalmente a que, a diferencia del nahuatl, queda mucho trabajo que
hacer para conocer a fondo la variante del otomi que se hablaba en los
valles centrales de Mexico en el periodo Novohispano Temprano. Hay algunos
intentos de traducir textos enteros, pero siguen siendo bastante tentativos.
La traduccion del Codice de Huichapan que hizo Lawrence Ecker hace mas de
medio siglo tiene muchos problemas, como tambien la tiene la traduccion de
Manuel Alvarado Guinchard.

 

No creo que antojwai sea “pedernal”, sino “la navaja de piedra”, dia en
otomi que corresponde a cipactli (animal que se dibuja en los codices, dicho
sea de paso, con navajas en el rostro y/o en el dorso). La palabra otomi que
corresponde a tecpatl, “pedernal”, es aneyaxi, “el cuchillo de pedernal”.
Creo que la similitud fonica entre antojwai, “la navaja de piedra” y anjwa,
“conejo”, es una mera coincidencia.

 

Publique mis intentos de traduccion de los terminos calendaricos del Codice
de Huichapan (y los que aparecen en otras fuentes novohispanas) en el numero
mas reciente de la revista Tlalocan (David Charles Wright Carr, “El
calendario mesoamericano en las lenguas otomi y nahuatl”, en Tlalocan
(Instituto de Investigaciones Filologicas, UNAM), vol. 16, 2009, pp.
217-253). Ahi se comparan las voces en otomi con los terminos
correspondientes en nahuatl. En general las palabras en ambas lenguas son
calcos (con el mismo significado, o similares), aunque algunas parecen
significar cosas distintas. Esto no necesariamente se debe a las diferencias
culturales entre los dos grupos lingüisticos, porque tambien hay diferencias
semanticas entre las palabras usadas en nahuatl en señorios de distintas
regiones. Lo que he encontrado en general, al comparar las palabras en otomí
y en náhuatl de diferentes campos semánticos (toponimos, antroponimos,
nombres de dioses, terminos calendaricos, estructuras sociales, etcetera) es
una gran semejanza cultural entre los otomies y los nahuas que convivían en
el centro de México en tiempos de la Conquista, lo cual no me sorprende,
porque en aquel entonces habían sido vecinos durante más de medio milenio,
en muchos casos viviendo en los mismos señoríos, buena parte de los cuales
eran plurilingües.

 

Saludos,

 

David

 

De: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org [mailto:nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org]
En nombre de roberto romero
Enviado el: lunes, 25 de octubre de 2010 01:51
Para: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org; nahuatl-bounces at list.famsi.org
Asunto: [Nahuat-l] pedernal y conejo

 

David Wright 

Para los navegantes de Internet tu nos hiciste el favor de publicar una
versión del Códice de Huichapan que esta en formato zip. Esa versión que
descargue tiene dos archivos zip Cod_huic y Cod_huic.ine. Esta último
corresponde a la bibliografia y el primero al texto del citado códice

En el Folio 11 de tu versión aparece y lo copio con cut and paste no lo
transcribo

1. Antoqhuay Enero

Sin embargo al comparar este linea con la traduccion de Ecker que publico la
UNAM en esta se lee:

Enero
1 Antoqhuay pedernal
an to-khwai

Una lectura descuidada lleva a pensar que tu traduces Antoqhuay como Enero 

Me parece que no es así y lo que leemos como traducción debo suponer que se
debe a un error al dar formato al documento

Lo que tu elegiste hacer en tu edición del códice fue no anotar la tradución
de cada día de ese mes de enero como viene en la edición de Ecker Tu
transcribes literalmente el texto que viene en el manuscrito sea este otomi
o castellano o latino pero no traduces 

1.- La primer pregunta es Estoy en lo correcto en esta observación. 

Lo que hace Ecker en su edición también es darnos las palabras que
construyen el término.

Así Ancãndehe viene de An Kã n dehe y es aguador y en el caso que nos ocupa:

Antoqhuay es An - to - khwai ( Este lo traduce pedernal [el día 1de enero]
pero tambien lo traduce como cuchilo de pedernal [el día 21 de enero] .

En el día 10 que Ecker traduce como conejo el termino es 

Anqhua el cual en la misma operación de enseñar las palabras que dan origen
al termino este resulta en: an Khwa 

Me llama mucho la atención que en ambas palabras Pedernal y conejo el primer
elemento es an y que en ambas palabras el último elemento es casi el mismo
Qhuay (Khwai) en pedernal y Qhua (khwa) en conejo

Pareciera que estan muy relacionados en otomi las palabras conejo y pedernal
. Su sonido y su escritura en caracteres latinos son muy parecidos 

2.- Existe esta relación de homofonia y cuasi homo escritura entre 
 Qhuay (pedernal) y Qhua(conejo)

3..- La letra Y presente al final de Qhuay (pedernal) es un fonema que
altera el significado de qhua (conejo) 

Gracias como siempre por tu tiempo y respuesta 

Roberto Romero Gutierrez 

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From rdurkan at hotmail.com  Mon Oct 25 17:11:05 2010
From: rdurkan at hotmail.com (Richard Durkan)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 18:11:05 +0100
Subject: Colonial language policy in the Americas
Message-ID: <MON.25.OCT.2010.181105.0100.RDURKAN@HOTMAIL.COM>


I am trying to do some personal research at the moment into colonial language policy and I wonder if anyone has attempted a study with this particular focus (as opposed to studying the colonial experience more generally). I am interested mainly the Spanish and Portuguese approaches and would be most interested to know if there are any such works.
 
Richard Durkan 		 	   		  
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From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx  Tue Oct 26 01:18:11 2010
From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 20:18:11 -0500
Subject: Colonial language policy in the Americas
In-Reply-To: <BAY147-w379043F1CA76F0C48CECC0BA410@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <MON.25.OCT.2010.201811.0500.DCWRIGHT@PRODIGY.NET.MX>

Estimado Richard:

I made a modest contribution to the study colonial language policy and its
application in New Spain in a journal article; through the references you
can get an idea of the major published sources, both colonial and modern.
This is an exploratory study; the hard work of digging into the archives
lies ahead.

“La política lingüística en la Nueva España”, en Acta Universitaria
(Dirección de Investigación y Posgrado, Universidad de Guanajuato), vol. 17,
no. 3, sep.-dic. 2007, pp. 5-19.

The article can be downloaded without subscriptions or fees (as it should
be) here:

http://www.dinpo.ugto.mx/acta/publicaciones/v17-3/actav17n3.htm

Saludos,

David Wright

De: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org [mailto:nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org]
En nombre de Richard Durkan
Enviado el: lunes, 25 de octubre de 2010 12:11
Para: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
Asunto: [Nahuat-l] Colonial language policy in the Americas

I am trying to do some personal research at the moment into colonial
language policy and I wonder if anyone has attempted a study with this
particular focus (as opposed to studying the colonial experience more
generally). I am interested mainly the Spanish and Portuguese approaches and
would be most interested to know if there are any such works.
 
Richard Durkan


_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From szakaib at gmail.com  Mon Oct 25 18:23:27 2010
From: szakaib at gmail.com (Susan Zakaib)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 13:23:27 -0500
Subject: Colonial language policy in the Americas
In-Reply-To: <BAY147-w379043F1CA76F0C48CECC0BA410@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <MON.25.OCT.2010.132327.0500.SZAKAIB@GMAIL.COM>

Hi Richard (and list!),

I haven't looked at the Portuguese case, but I believe there's very
little out there on colonial Spanish language policy. Dorothy Tanck de
Estrada examines Mexico's late colonial language policies and their
implementation in indigenous communities in _Pueblos de Indios y
Educación en el México Colonial, 1750-1821_. For early Peru, take a
look at Alan Durston's _Pastoral Quechua: The History of Christian
Translation in Colonial Peru, 1550-1650_ . Those are the only two
studies I know of that really delve into the subject. If anyone has
any other recommendations, I would love to hear about them as well.

You're welcome to get in touch with me if you'd like to discuss this
topic further. I'm writing my dissertation on language policy in
Bourbon Mexico--I'm in the very early stages of my research, so I'm no
expert by any means, but I'd be happy to help out if I can.

I hope this helps!

Susan Zakaib



On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 12:11 PM, Richard Durkan <rdurkan at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> I am trying to do some personal research at the moment into colonial language policy and I wonder if anyone has attempted a study with this particular focus (as opposed to studying the colonial experience more generally). I am interested mainly the Spanish and Portuguese approaches and would be most interested to know if there are any such works.
>
> Richard Durkan
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>

_______________________________________________
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From idiez at me.com  Fri Oct  1 01:08:04 2010
From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan)
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 20:08:04 -0500
Subject: Zampa piltlahcuiloltzin tlen CH
Message-ID: <THU.30.SEP.2010.200804.0500.IDIEZ@ME.COM>

Piyali listeros,
	After consulting Lopez Austin book and not finding a word for "vocal folds" we have invented "-tozcaamayo", and will include it in the definitions.
Thanks for the suggestions regarding the affricates. Here's a new version of CH.
John

CH. piltlahcuiloltzin. Quimanextia tentlatzacuilcayotl tlen caquizti quemman motzacua tocopac, tonenepilpatlauhca quitzacua ihyotl campa quinamiqui iican tocamatapalpamiuh huan tonenepil eli quentzin comoltic; noque tonenepil itehtenno nocca quinamiqui tocamatapalpamiuh, tonenepilpitzauhca tlamacauhtehua yolic, huan zozomoca ihyotl nelpiltlatoctzin quemman pehua quiza.

CH. letter. It represents the consonant that is heard when the velum closes, the middle of the tongue touches the back of the alveolar ridge stopping the airflow and the tongue becomes slightly concave; with the sides of the tongue still touching the alveolar ridge, the blade of the tongue releases slowly and the air makes a hissing sound for an instant as it begins to be expelled.
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From k_salmon at ipinc.net  Mon Oct  4 00:04:23 2010
From: k_salmon at ipinc.net (Kier Salmon)
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2010 17:04:23 -0700
Subject: Names
Message-ID: <SUN.3.OCT.2010.170423.0700.KSALMON@IPINC.NET>

Recently I got an inquiry as to how the Mayans made up their names and  
were there rules?

I remember some time ago somebody posted a compilation of female and  
male Nahuatl names from the extant papers.  Would anybody know if a  
similar work has been done for Mayan names and where I could find such  
a resource?

Thank you all for your kind attention.

Kier Salmon

_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
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From stefanyteufel at yahoo.de  Mon Oct  4 04:29:17 2010
From: stefanyteufel at yahoo.de (Stefanie Teufel)
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2010 21:29:17 -0700
Subject: Names
In-Reply-To: <9A97493B-4EA9-4E7F-9490-B6A1370DBCB6@ipinc.net>
Message-ID: <SUN.3.OCT.2010.212917.0700.STEFANYTEUFEL@YAHOO.DE>

Hi,
if you looking for the ancient Maya, you can check the doctoral?thesis of Pierre 
Colas "Sinn und Bedeutung Klassischer Maya Personennamen"? (Publisher: 
Sauerwein).
But it is in German.
Best 
Stefanie




________________________________
Von: Kier Salmon <k_salmon at ipinc.net>
An: Nahuat-l ((messages)) <nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>
Gesendet: Montag, den 4. Oktober 2010, 2:04:23 Uhr
Betreff: [Nahuat-l] Names

Recently I got an inquiry as to how the Mayans made up their names and? 
were there rules?

I remember some time ago somebody posted a compilation of female and? 
male Nahuatl names from the extant papers.? Would anybody know if a? 
similar work has been done for Mayan names and where I could find such? 
a resource?

Thank you all for your kind attention.

Kier Salmon

_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


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From alec.battles at gmail.com  Tue Oct  5 00:07:59 2010
From: alec.battles at gmail.com (Alec Battles)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 09:07:59 +0900
Subject: Names
In-Reply-To: <268898.68372.qm@web28614.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.5.OCT.2010.090759.0900.ALEC.BATTLES@GMAIL.COM>

I'd also be interested in reading about this. I don't know German, but
Google translate does a remarkably good job of rendering German text
into English. That said, Colas's thesis is not available online, as
far as I can tell. Does anyone know of an online resource
(language-agnostic)?

Alec

On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 1:29 PM, Stefanie Teufel <stefanyteufel at yahoo.de> wrote:
> Hi,
> if you looking for the ancient Maya, you can check the doctoral?thesis of
> Pierre Colas "Sinn und Bedeutung Klassischer Maya Personennamen"
> (Publisher: Sauerwein).
> But it is in German.
> Best
> Stefanie
>
> ________________________________
> Von: Kier Salmon <k_salmon at ipinc.net>
> An: Nahuat-l ((messages)) <nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>
> Gesendet: Montag, den 4. Oktober 2010, 2:04:23 Uhr
> Betreff: [Nahuat-l] Names
>
> Recently I got an inquiry as to how the Mayans made up their names and
> were there rules?
>
> I remember some time ago somebody posted a compilation of female and
> male Nahuatl names from the extant papers.? Would anybody know if a
> similar work has been done for Mayan names and where I could find such
> a resource?
>
> Thank you all for your kind attention.
>
> Kier Salmon
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>
>

_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From stefanyteufel at yahoo.de  Wed Oct  6 07:06:04 2010
From: stefanyteufel at yahoo.de (Stefanie Teufel)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2010 07:06:04 +0000
Subject: Names
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinJ2iDQjgHtGxb+5SsCooSAcvQL9nsAn364Mutb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <WED.6.OCT.2010.070604.0000.STEFANYTEUFEL@YAHOO.DE>

Hi,

unfortunately there is no online resource available. One has to order that 
book,?but perhaps you will find it in a library in the States or ask the members 
of?"aztlan" at famsi.

Colas, Pierre R. 
Sinn und Bedeutung klassischer Maya-Personennamen. Typologische Analyse von 
Anthropo-nymphrasen in den Hieroglypheninschriften der klassischen Maya-Kultur 
als Beitrag zur Allgemeinen Onomastik. Acta Mesoamericana, Vol. 15, 2004, 
xxxv+433pp., cloth, size 21?29,5cm, ISBN 3-931419-11-8, EUR 78,00 (including 
25pp. English summary, and database with 2800 entries on CD)
?
?The link to the publisher:?
?http://www.mexicon.de/saurwein.html
?
?
There is also one short article (in Spanish) about Maya names in Arqueolog?a 
Mexicana 2001.
?
Best, 
Stefanie
?
?
?




________________________________
Von: Alec Battles <alec.battles at gmail.com>
An: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
Gesendet: Dienstag, den 5. Oktober 2010, 2:07:59 Uhr
Betreff: Re: [Nahuat-l] Names

I'd also be interested in reading about this. I don't know German, but
Google translate does a remarkably good job of rendering German text
into English. That said, Colas's thesis is not available online, as
far as I can tell. Does anyone know of an online resource
(language-agnostic)?

Alec

On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 1:29 PM, Stefanie Teufel <stefanyteufel at yahoo.de> wrote:
> Hi,
> if you looking for the ancient Maya, you can check the doctoral?thesis of
> Pierre Colas "Sinn und Bedeutung Klassischer Maya Personennamen"
> (Publisher: Sauerwein).
> But it is in German.
> Best
> Stefanie
>
> ________________________________
> Von: Kier Salmon <k_salmon at ipinc.net>
> An: Nahuat-l ((messages)) <nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>
> Gesendet: Montag, den 4. Oktober 2010, 2:04:23 Uhr
> Betreff: [Nahuat-l] Names
>
> Recently I got an inquiry as to how the Mayans made up their names and
> were there rules?
>
> I remember some time ago somebody posted a compilation of female and
> male Nahuatl names from the extant papers.? Would anybody know if a
> similar work has been done for Mayan names and where I could find such
> a resource?
>
> Thank you all for your kind attention.
>
> Kier Salmon
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>
>

_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


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From schwallr at potsdam.edu  Wed Oct  6 14:36:37 2010
From: schwallr at potsdam.edu (John F. Schwaller)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2010 10:36:37 -0400
Subject: Foundation Course
Message-ID: <WED.6.OCT.2010.103637.0400.SCHWALLR@POTSDAM.EDU>

Colleagues,

I am having a new set of copies of Campbell and Karttunen's _Foundation 
Course_ printed.  I have checked the cost to mail the two volumes to 
Europe and have been pleasantly surprised that postage has actually 
decreased.  I know that the cost of printing has gone up, but I do not 
yet know by how much.  Since the books are sold strictly at cost, as 
soon as the new copies are printed I will let folks know what the cost 
of the set is, including shipping and handling, and make the appropriate 
changes to the web page.

J. F. Schwaller

-- 
*****************************
John F. Schwaller
President
SUNY - Potsdam
44 Pierrepont Ave.
Potsdam, NY  13676
Tel. 315-267-2100
FAX 315-267-2496

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From mhopkins at fas.harvard.edu  Wed Oct  6 15:01:16 2010
From: mhopkins at fas.harvard.edu (Hopkins, Mary)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2010 11:01:16 -0400
Subject: Names
In-Reply-To: <616351.20253.qm@web28604.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <WED.6.OCT.2010.110116.0400.MHOPKINS@FAS.HARVARD.EDU>

Library worker here.

Go to your local library, ask the interlibrary loan dept. to look it up for you. The OCLC record number that covers copies in the US is 57730296. It's not ubiquitous, but it's not that rare either.

Mary

From: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org [mailto:nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org] On Behalf Of Stefanie Teufel
Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 3:06 AM
To: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
Subject: Re: [Nahuat-l] Names

Hi,

unfortunately there is no online resource available. One has to order that book, but perhaps you will find it in a library in the States or ask the members of "aztlan" at famsi.

Colas, Pierre R.
Sinn und Bedeutung klassischer Maya-Personennamen. Typologische Analyse von Anthropo-nymphrasen in den Hieroglypheninschriften der klassischen Maya-Kultur als Beitrag zur Allgemeinen Onomastik. Acta Mesoamericana, Vol. 15, 2004, xxxv+433pp., cloth, size 21?29,5cm, ISBN 3-931419-11-8, EUR 78,00 (including 25pp. English summary, and database with 2800 entries on CD)

 The link to the publisher:
 http://www.mexicon.de/saurwein.html


There is also one short article (in Spanish) about Maya names in Arqueolog?a Mexicana 2001.

Best,
Stefanie





________________________________
Von: Alec Battles <alec.battles at gmail.com>
An: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
Gesendet: Dienstag, den 5. Oktober 2010, 2:07:59 Uhr
Betreff: Re: [Nahuat-l] Names

I'd also be interested in reading about this. I don't know German, but
Google translate does a remarkably good job of rendering German text
into English. That said, Colas's thesis is not available online, as
far as I can tell. Does anyone know of an online resource
(language-agnostic)?

Alec

On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 1:29 PM, Stefanie Teufel <stefanyteufel at yahoo.de<mailto:stefanyteufel at yahoo.de>> wrote:
> Hi,
> if you looking for the ancient Maya, you can check the doctoral thesis of
> Pierre Colas "Sinn und Bedeutung Klassischer Maya Personennamen"
> (Publisher: Sauerwein).
> But it is in German.
> Best
> Stefanie
>
> ________________________________
> Von: Kier Salmon <k_salmon at ipinc.net<mailto:k_salmon at ipinc.net>>
> An: Nahuat-l ((messages)) <nahuatl at lists.famsi.org<mailto:nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>>
> Gesendet: Montag, den 4. Oktober 2010, 2:04:23 Uhr
> Betreff: [Nahuat-l] Names
>
> Recently I got an inquiry as to how the Mayans made up their names and
> were there rules?
>
> I remember some time ago somebody posted a compilation of female and
> male Nahuatl names from the extant papers.  Would anybody know if a
> similar work has been done for Mayan names and where I could find such
> a resource?
>
> Thank you all for your kind attention.
>
> Kier Salmon
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org<mailto:Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org<mailto:Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>
>

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From alec.battles at gmail.com  Wed Oct  6 20:10:38 2010
From: alec.battles at gmail.com (Alec Battles)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2010 05:10:38 +0900
Subject: How do Nahuatl idioms compare to English idioms? How about
 Chinese idioms? Examples?
Message-ID: <THU.7.OCT.2010.051038.0900.ALEC.BATTLES@GMAIL.COM>

After some Google searching, I wasn't able to find anything about
Nahuatl idioms.

English idioms tend arrive from other linguistic regions, move in, and
make themselves very familiar. I don't know if the French were the
first to say 'that's not my cup of tea,' but a friend has informed me
that this idiom is very French indeed. I love English idioms, and one
of my creative projects is to come up with new ones (for fun, but also
for the free adoption of people involved in imaginative writing).

Chinese idioms are quite different from English idioms. Usually, they
reflect a much older stage of the language. In a way, they are nothing
like English idioms, because their use shows a kind of uncommon
erudition. It would be more likely to encounter Chinese idioms in
print, less likely to encounter them in speech.

Nonetheless, both languages are, in terms of current linguistic
typology, 'analytic.'

I am curious about Nahuatl idioms, classical and modern-dialectical.
Can anyone give me some descriptions or examples of these?

Alec
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From karttu at comcast.net  Thu Oct  7 14:56:38 2010
From: karttu at comcast.net (Frances Karttunen)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2010 10:56:38 -0400
Subject: How do Nahuatl idioms compare to English idioms? How about
 Chinese idioms? Examples?
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=82FMquKr5QX-gM5AFDHq7rdET5M940zW00Sa_@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <THU.7.OCT.2010.105638.0400.KARTTU@COMCAST.NET>

Part of what you might be looking for are the "metaphors" and the  
"difrasismos" of Nahuatl as recorded in the 16th and 17th centuries.

Among the places to look are at the end of the Florentine Codex,  
book  6, and the end of one of the manuscripts of the Olmos grammar  
reproduced as volume 9 in the series of facsimiles issued by the  
press of the National Autonomous University of Mexico.

For a quick on-line look, you might visit www.mexicolore.co.uk and  
under "Aztec Language" have a look at the essay on "'Diphrases' or  
couplets in Nahuatl."


On Oct 6, 2010, at 4:10 PM, Alec Battles wrote:

> After some Google searching, I wasn't able to find anything about
> Nahuatl idioms.
>
> English idioms tend arrive from other linguistic regions, move in, and
> make themselves very familiar. I don't know if the French were the
> first to say 'that's not my cup of tea,' but a friend has informed me
> that this idiom is very French indeed. I love English idioms, and one
> of my creative projects is to come up with new ones (for fun, but also
> for the free adoption of people involved in imaginative writing).
>
> Chinese idioms are quite different from English idioms. Usually, they
> reflect a much older stage of the language. In a way, they are nothing
> like English idioms, because their use shows a kind of uncommon
> erudition. It would be more likely to encounter Chinese idioms in
> print, less likely to encounter them in speech.
>
> Nonetheless, both languages are, in terms of current linguistic
> typology, 'analytic.'
>
> I am curious about Nahuatl idioms, classical and modern-dialectical.
> Can anyone give me some descriptions or examples of these?
>
> Alec
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl

_______________________________________________
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From campbel at indiana.edu  Thu Oct  7 18:53:45 2010
From: campbel at indiana.edu (Campbell, R. Joe)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2010 14:53:45 -0400
Subject: How do Nahuatl idioms compare to English idioms? How about
 Chinese idioms? Examples?
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=82FMquKr5QX-gM5AFDHq7rdET5M940zW00Sa_@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <THU.7.OCT.2010.145345.0400.CAMPBEL@INDIANA.EDU>

Alec,

   I agree with Fran's suggestions on where to look for idioms.  And 
since "difrasismos" are an interesting group of idioms, it is worth 
adding a super-source for them:
  Mercedes Montes de Oca Vega
  Los difrasismos en el Nahuatl del siglo XVI
  Doctoral thesis, UNAM, 2000

*************************

   Another source for idioms is to check with Alonso de Molina.  He 
added the notation "metaphora" (or a variant) to some of his dictionary 
entries.
I include them in a list below.

Joe


*metaphor ***
  aaquia =ima icxi itlan c.  el que no haze caso de sus deudos por estar
    el rico. metaphora. <poss-ma:itl poss-icza-l2 poss-tlan ca4-aqui--
    +z>x +a>i +metaphor>. 71m2-7|

  ahci =ahnonn [scribal error: ??reflexive??: 55m].  biuir en pobreza.
    per metapho.. <ah1-p11-o:n-p54-ahci +metaphor>. 55m-2|

  ahci =tetech n.  echarse con muger. per metapbora<m>  {??printing
    error: metapbora<a> for metaphora<m>}. <poss-tech1 p11-ahci +out.rig
    +metaphor>. 55m-6|

  ahtlapalli =cuitlapilli [scribal error: ??mistaken comma after 'ha' at
    the end of the first line: 55m].  vasallos o gente plebeya. per
    methaporam. <cuitlatl-pilli ahtlapalli +metaphor>. 55m-19|

  ahtlapalli =cuitlapilli.  vasallos o gente plebeya. per metaphoram.
    <cuitlatl-pilli ahtlapalli +metaphor>. 71m1-20|

  ahuia =ahn.  padecer. <ah1-p11-a:huiya +del.y +irony .bbbb +metaphor>.
    55m-15|

  ana notequiuh =nic.  malo estar mucho quasi ala muerte; malo estar
    mucho; quasi a la muerte. <p11-p33-a:na1 poss-tequitl-uh +metaphor>.
    55m-13|

  aqui =comic n [[mic naqui =co |
|per metapho]].  calentura grande
    tener. <co:mitl-co2 p11-aqui +mis_analysis.x +metaphor>. 55m-2|

  aquia =icpaltitlan nitla.  esconder algo. <icpatl-l3-ti1-tlan p11-p51-
    aqui-caus08 +metaphor>. 55m-8|

  aquia =petlatitlan icpaltitlan nitla [[tlaaquia =petlatitlan
    ycpaltitlan ni]].  esconder algo. <petlatl-ti1-tlan icpatl-l3-ti1-
    tlan p11-p51-aqui-caus08 +mis_analysis.4a +metaphor>. 71m1-10|

  aquilli =petlatitlan icpaltitlan tla.  callada cosa que no se diuulga.
    <petlatl-ti1-tlan icpatl-l3-ti1-tlan p51-aqui-caus08=0-l1
    +metaphor>. 55m-2|

  atitlanaquia =nic=onicatitlanaquih.  desperdiciar la hazienda.
    metaphora. <p11-p33-a:tl1-ti1-tlan-aqui-caus08 +metaphor>. 71m2-2|

  atl, tlachinolli.  batalla o guerra. metaphora. <a:tl1 p51-chinahui-
    caus06-l1 +metaphor>. 71m2-2|

  atoctiani =tla.  el que echa algo el rio abaxo, o el que sele cayo
    algo enel rio y lo lleuo la corriente o el que desperdicia y echa a
    perder su hazienda. metaphora. <p51-a:tl1-toca2-caus02-ni1
    +metaphor>. 71m2-19|

  atoctiliztli =tla.  el acto de echar algo el rio abaxo assi, o de
    desperdiciar alguno la hazienda  (assi is el que echa algo el rio
    abaxo, o el que sele cayo algo enel rio y lo lleuo la corriente o el
    que desperdicia y echa a perder su hazienda. metaphora). <p51-a:tl1-
    toca2-caus02-liz +metaphor>. 71m2-19|

  atoctilli =tla.  cosa echada assi enel rio. &c. o cosa ahogada en rio
    (assi is el que echa algo el rio abaxo, o el que sele cayo algo enel
    rio y lo lleuo la corriente o el que desperdicia y echa a perder su
    hazienda. metaphora). <p51-a:tl1-toca2-caus02-l1 +metaphor>. 71m2-
    19|

  atoyahualiztli =ne.  cayda en gran delito. per metaphoram. <p53-a:tl1-
    toya:hui-caus09-liz +metaphor>. 55m-2|

  atoyahuia =nin.  caer en gran delito.; caer en^graue delicto. <p11-p54-
    a:tl1-toya:hui-l2-v05b +metaphor>. 55m-2|

  atoyahuiani =mo.  caydo assi  (assi is cayda en gran delito. per
    metaphoram); el que cayo en gran delicto. metaphora. <p54-a:tl1-
    toya:hui-l2-v05b-ni1 +metaphor>. 55m-2|

  atoyahuiliztli =ne.  cayda en graue delicto. <p53-a:tl1-toya:hui-l2-
    v05b-liz +metaphor>. 71m1-4|

  axcahuia =ahnic.  adquirir con trabajo lo necessario ala vida. dizen
    per metaphoram. <ah1-p11-p33-a:xca:itl-v05b +metaphor>. 55m-00|

  cacauhtoc =nocon.  malo estar mucho quasi ala muerte; malo estar
    mucho; quasi a la muerte. <p11-p33-o:n-dupl-ca:hui-caus09-prt1-ti1-o-
    prt2 aux13 +metaphor>. 55m-13|

  cactoc.  destruir los yerros del pueblo, per metaphoram. <caqui2-prt1-
    ti1-o-prt2 aux13 +metaphor>. 55m-6|

  cahualiztlamati =ahtleh qui.  escasso; guardador escasso; mezquino;
    miserable escasso. <ah1-tleh p33-ca:hui-caus09-liz-p51-mati
    +metaphor>. 55m-8|

  calaqui =contzalan xopetlatitlan ni.  encubrirse; esconderse. <co:mitl-
    tza:lan xotl1-petlatl-ti1-tlan p11-calaqui +metaphor>. 55m-7|

  calaqui =xopetlatitlan ni=xopetlatitlan onicalac.  esconderse.
    metaphora. <xotl1-petlatl-ti1-tlan p11-calaqui +metaphor>. 71m2-27|

  calaquia =icpaltitlan nitla [scribal error: ??this has the
    "icpaltitlan" part of the difrasismo, but not the "petlatitlan"
    part: 71m1].  esconder algo. <icpatl-l3-ti1-tlan p11-p51-calaqui-
    caus08 +metaphor>. 71m1-10|

  caltech =xomolco.  a^escondidadas; escondidamente. <xomolli-co1 calli-
    tech1 +metaphor>. 71m1-1|

  caltech nemini =xomolco.  mostrenco. metaphora. <xomolli-co1 calli-
    tech1 nemi-ni1 +metaphor>. 71m2-27|

  caltechtli nicnotoctia =xomolli.  esconderse. <xomolli calli-tech1-tl
    p11-p33-p54-toca2-caus02 +metaphor>. 55m-8|

  caltechtli nicnotoctia =xomolli=xomolli caltechtli onicnotoctih
    [scribal error: ??why nicno-?  why not nino-?: 71m2].  esconderse.
    metaphora. <xomolli calli-tech1-tl p11-p33-p54-toca2-caus02
    +metaphor>. 71m2-27|

  caltititech ninopipiloa =teyollo.  emmendar castigando. <poss-yo:lli-
    yo:tl1 calli--ti1-tech1 p11-p54-dupl-piloa: +ly>ll +metaphor>. 55m-
    7|

  cecemohtli.  persona de mala fama. metaphora. <dupl-cem-ohtli
    +metaphor>. 71m2-3|

  cecepahtic.  cosa muy fria. et per metaphoram. cosa muy espantable.
    <dupl-ce:tl-pah4-tic +metaphor>. 71m2-3|

  cemilhuitica =i [scribal error: ??this should not be split: 71m1].
    vasallos o gente plebeya. per metaphoram. <+metaphor>. 71m1-20|

  cemilhuitica iomilhuitica =i [scribal error: ??period after
    ycemilhuitica: 55m].  vasallos o gente plebeya. per methaporam.
    <+metaphor>. 55m-19|

  cemixca =ni.  noticia dar a alguno delo que le a de acaecer
    auisandole,  per metaphoram; noticia dar a alguno de lo que le a^de
    acaecer; auisandole. <+metaphor +prob>. 55m-14|

  chalchihuitl =oc.  es aun donzella y virgen. metaphora. <oc
    cha:lchihuitl +metaphor>. 71m2-13|

  chichinaca =ni.  padecer. <p11-chichinaca .bbbb +metaphor>. 55m-15|

  chimalli =mitl.  guerra; o batalla. metaphora. <mi:tl chi:malli
    +metaphor>. 55m-10|

  chinolli teoatl =tla.  guerra o batalla. metaphora. <p51-chinahui-
    caus06-l1 -- +prob +metaphor>. 71m2-20|

  ciahui =qui.  adquirir con trabajo lo necessario ala vida. dizen per
    metaphoram. <p33-ciahui1 +metaphor>. 55m-00|

  cochi =itlan ni.  echarse con muger. per metapbora<m>  {??printing
    error: metapbora<a> for metaphora<m>}. <poss-tlan p11-cochi +out.rig
    +metaphor>. 55m-6|

  cocoliztli =motonallan tlamachtia in.  despoblarse el pueblo por
    pestilencia o guerra. <+metaphor>. 71m1-8|

  comic =iuhqui.  hazer calor. <ihui-prt1-c2 co:mitl-co2 +metaphor>. 55m-
    11|

  comic =iuhquin [scribal error: ??printing error: comma instead of
    period; m5 and m2 have "iuhquin comic" and "iuhquin temazcalco" as
    separate items: 71m1].  hazer calor. <ihui-prt1-c2-in co:mitl-co2
    +metaphor>. 71m1-12|

  cotonililli iaztauh imecaxicol =tla.  horro o horra de esclauo. <p51-
    coto:ni-ben-l1 poss-a:ztatl-uh poss-mecatl-xico:lli +metaphor>. 55m-
    11|

  cotontlani =ahmo.  escasso; guardador escasso; mezquino; miserable
    escasso. <ah1-p54-coto:ni-l2-tlani3 +metaphor>. 71m1-10|

  cotontlani =ahnino.  auaricia tener. <ah1-p11-p54-coto:ni-l2-tlani3
    +metaphor>. 55m-1|

  cozcahuan =te.  hijos y hijas. <poss-co:zcatl-plur04 +kin +metaphor>.
    55m-11|

  cozcahuan tequetzalhuan =te [scribal error: ??there is a period
    between tecuzcauan tequetzalhuan, indicating that they might be
    separate elements: 71m1].  hijos y hijas. <poss-co:zcatl-plur04 poss-
    quetzalli-plur04 +kin +metaphor>. 71m1-13|

  cozcahuan tequetzalhuan =te.  hijos o hijas. metaphora. <poss-co:zcatl-
    plur04 poss-quetzalli-plur04 +kin +metaphor>. 71m2-16|

  cozcateuh ipan nimitzmati =quetzalteuh.  tener gran amor el padre al
    hijo. metaphora. <quetzalli-teuh co:zcatl-teuh poss-pan p11-p32-mati
    +kin +metaphor>. 71m2-15|

  cozcatl.  hijos y hijas. <co:zcatl +kin +metaphor>. 55m-11|

  cozolco nonoc =cuahuic.  ni?ear hazer cosas de ni?os. <cuahuitl-co2
    co:zolli-co1 p11-o:n-o-prt2 +metaphor>. 55m-14|

  cua =notzontecon nelchiquiuh nic.  biuir de mi sudor y trabajo, o
    ganar sueldo. metaphora. <poss-tzontli-tecomatl poss-e:lli-
    chiquihuitl-uh p11-p33-cua: +dif +metaphor>. 71m2-13|

  cuacecelic.   <lo mesmo es que cuacecelicapil>. <cua:itl-dupl-celiya-
    c1 +metaphor>. 71m2-14|

  cuacecelicapil.  mancebillo que aun no tiene cerrada la mollera, y
    metaphoricamente se dize del que tiene poca experiencia delas cosas.
    <cua:itl-dupl-celiya--ca:5-pilli +metaphor>. 71m2-14|

  cuacuamecatlatla =ni=onicuacuamecatlatlac.  desatinarme o
    enloquecerme. metaphora. <p11-dupl-cua:itl-mecatl-tletl2-v08b
    +metaphor>. 71m2-14|

  cuahtzontli nicteca =xiyotl.  dar buen exemplo; edificar a otros
    dandoles buen exemplo. <xiyo:tl cua:itl-ihtzoma-l2 p11-p33-te:ca
    +metaphor>. 55m-4|

  cuahuitl =tetl.  dolencia; enfermedad; enfermedad o castigo.
    metaphora. <tetl1 cuahuitl +metaphor>. 55m-6|

  cuani =te.  cruel persona. <p52-cua:-ni1 +metaphor>. 55m-4|

  cuapapatztic.   <lo mesmo es que cuacecelicapil>. <cua:itl-dupl-
    pa:tztli-tic +metaphor>. 71m2-14|

  cuatzontli nicteca =xiotl.  dar buen exemplo. metaphora. <xiyo:tl
    cua:itl-tzontli p11-p33-te:ca +metaphor>. 71m2-27|

  cuauhticanemi =quilticanemi [scribal error: ??period after
    quilticanemi: 55m].  vasallos o gente plebeya. per methaporam.
    <+prob +metaphor>. 55m-19|

  cuauhticanemi =quilticanemi [scribal error: ??period after
    quilticanemi: 71m1].  vasallos o gente plebeya. per metaphoram.
    <quilitl-ti1-ca2 cuahuitl-ti1-ca2-nemi +metaphor>. 71m1-20|

  cuazacamoa =nite=onitecuazacamoh.  messar a otro. metaphora. <p11-p52-
    cua:itl-zacatl-moa: +metaphor>. 71m2-14|

  cuetzpal.  gloton; tragon. <cuetzpalin-trunc +metaphor>. 55m-10|

  cuexanco nomamalhuazco yelohuatiuh =no.  gouernar. <poss-cuexa:ntli-
    co1 poss-ma:ma:-l1-hua:ztli-co1 ca:1b-lo:2-hua2-ti1-yauh2 aux14b
    +metaphor>. 55m-10|

  cuexanco nomamalhuazco yeloatiuh =no.  tener el cargo de regir y
    gouernar alos otros. metaphora. <poss-cuexa:ntli-co1 poss-ma:ma:-l1-
    hua:ztli-co1 ca:1b-lo:2-hua2-ti1-yauh2  aux14b +metaphor>. 71m2-12|

  cui =nic.  echarse con muger. per metapbora<m>  {??printing error:
    metapbora<a> for metaphora<m>}. <p11-p33-cui +metaphor>. 55m-6|

  cuiltonoani =mo.  rico. per metaphora. el que se goza mucho. <p54-
    cuilto:noa:-ni1 +metaphor>. 71m2-10|

  cuitlapan notepotzco yeloac =no.  gouernar; tener el cargo de regir y
    gouernar alos otros. metaphora. <poss-cuitlatl-pan poss-tepotztli-
    co1 ca:1b-lo:2-hua2-prt2 +dif +metaphor>. 55m-10|

  cuitlatlaza =nite.  librar de seruidumbre. per metaphoram; librar de
    seruidumbre. <p11-p52-cuitlatl-tla:za +metaphor>. 55m-12|

  eecatl =temoxtli.  dolencia; enfermedad. <te:mo:xtli dupl-e:catl
    +metaphor>. 55m-6|

  ehuatinemi =ahnon.  biuir en pobreza. per metapho.. <ah1-p11-o:n-e:hua-
    ti1-nemi aux01 +metaphor>. 55m-2|

  ehuatinemi =ahtleh non [scribal error: ??01|
printing error:
    atlenoueuatinemi for atlenoneuatinemi; m1 has atle noneuatinemi; m2
    has atle noneuatinemi: 55m].  biuir en pobreza. per metapho.. <ah1-
    tleh p11-o:n-e:hua-ti1-nemi aux01 +metaphor>. 55m-2|

  ezo, itlapallo, iohxio =i.  mayorazgo hijo de algun se?or. metaphora.
    <poss-eztli-yo:tl1 poss-p51-pa:3-l1-yo:tl1 poss-ohza-l2-yo:tl1 +dif
    +kin +ly>ll +zy>z +a>i +metaphor>. 71m2-6|

  eztli =tlapalli.  nobleza de sangre y de linage. metaphora. <p51-pa:3-
    l1 eztli +metaphor>. 71m2-22|

  ezzo =te.  generoso de buen linage  {+mis-print: bueu for buen};
    generoso de buen linage. <poss-eztli-yo:tl1 +kin +zy>zz +metaphor>.
    55m-10|

  huellamati =ahni.  padecer. <ah1-p11-huel1-p51-mati +fusion +ltl>ll
    +irony .bbbb +metaphor>. 55m-15|

  huic temecapal =te.  esclauo de alguno. metaphora. <poss-huictli poss-
    mecatl-palli +dif +metaphor>. 71m2-19|

  huica =tlanahuac nitla.  destruir los yerros del pueblo, per
    metaphoram. <poss-na:huatl-co2 p11-p51-hui:ca +metaphor>. 55m-6|

  huicaltia =ninote=oninotehuicaltih  [[teuicaltia
    =nino=oninoteuicalti]].  seguir, o imitar al vulgo, haziendo loque
    los otros hazen. metaphora. o hazer y procurar que otros me lleuen
    consigo ensu compa?ia. <p11-p54-p52-hui:ca-caus01 +ambig
    +mis_analysis. +metaphor>. 71m2-19|

  huilana =nino.  ni?ear hazer cosas de ni?os. <p11-p54-huila:na
    +metaphor>. 55m-14|

  ic nonoc =ye.  malo estar mucho quasi ala muerte; malo estar mucho;
    quasi a la muerte. <ye1 i:c1 p11-o:n-o-prt2 +metaphor>. 55m-13|

  icpalpan nica =petlapan.  gouernar; tener officio de regir y gouernar.
    metaphora. <petlatl-pan icpatl-l3-pan p11-ca:1a +metaphor>. 55m-10|

  icpaltitlan nitlaaquia =petlatitlan.  encubrir o dissimular culpa de
    otro. per metaphoram; esconder algo; encubrir o dissimular culpa de
    otro; encubrir delicto de otro. metaphora. <petlatl-ti1-tlan icpatl-
    l3-ti1-tlan p11-p51-aqui-caus08 +metaphor>. 55m-7|

  icpaltitlan nitlatlapachoa =petlatitlan.  encubrir culpa de otro.
    metaphora. <petlatl-ti1-tlan icpatl-l3-ti1-tlan p11-p51-p51-pachihui-
    caus06 +metaphor>. 71m2-14|

  icpaltitlan tlaaquini =petlatitlan.  encubridor tal  (tal is encubrir
    o dissimular culpa de otro. per metaphoram). <petlatl-ti1-tlan
    icpatl-l3-ti1-tlan p51-aqui-caus08=0-ni1 +metaphor>. 55m-7|

  icpaltitlan tlaaquiliztli =petlatitlan.  encubrimiento assi  (assi is
    encubierta culpa). <petlatl-ti1-tlan icpatl-l3-ti1-tlan p51-aqui-
    caus08=0-liz +metaphor>. 55m-7|

  icpaltitlan tlaaquilli =petlatitlan.  encubierta culpa. <petlatl-ti1-
    tlan icpatl-l3-ti1-tlan p51-aqui-caus08=0-l1 +metaphor>. 71m1-10|

  icpaltitlan tlaaquiani =petlatitlan.  encubridor tal  (tal is encubrir
    o dissimular culpa de otro). <petlatl-ti1-tlan icpatl-l3-ti1-tlan
    p51-aqui-caus08-ni1 +metaphor>. 71m1-10|

  icpaltitlan tlaaquiliztli =petlatitlan.  encubrimiento assi  (assi is
    encubrir o dissimular culpa de otro); encubrimiento tal  (tal is
    encubrir delicto de otro. metaphora). <petlatl-ti1-tlan icpatl-l3-
    ti1-tlan p51-aqui-caus08=0-liz +metaphor>. 71m1-10|

  icpaltitlan tlaaquilli =petlatitlan.  delicto encubierto assi  (assi
    is encubrir delicto de otro. metaphora). <petlatl-ti1-tlan icpatl-l3-
    ti1-tlan p51-aqui-caus08=0-l1 +metaphor>. 71m2-14|

  icpaltitlan tlaaquini =petlatitlan.  encubridor tal  (tal is encubrir
    delicto de otro. metaphora). <petlatl-ti1-tlan icpatl-l3-ti1-tlan
    p51-aqui-caus08=0-ni1 +metaphor>. 71m2-14|

  icximimictia =ahtleh nech=atleh onechicximimictih.  ninguna cosa me
    impide o estorua. metaphora. <ah1-tleh p31-icza-l2-dupl-miqui-caus02
    +z>x +a>i +metaphor>. 71m2-2|

  ihhuitl nicchihua =tizatl.  auisar a alguno con piedad para que biua
    como a de biuir por  que no le suceda algun mal. per metaphoram.
    <ti:zatl ihhuitl p11-p33-chi:hua +metaphor>. 55m-20|

  ihhuitl nicchihua =tizatl=tizatl ihhuitl onicchiuh.  dar a otro buen
    consejo y auiso, o dar buen exemplo. metaphora. <ti:zatl ihhuitl p11-
    p33-chi:hua +metaphor>. 71m2-19|

  ihhuitl nictlalia =tizatl.  auisar a alguno con piedad para que biua
    como a de biuir por  que no le suceda algun mal. per metaphoram.
    <ti:zatl ihhuitl p11-p33-tla:lia: +metaphor>. 55m-20|

  ihhuitl nictlalia =tizatl=tizatl ihhuitl onictlalih.  dar a otro buen
    consejo y auiso, o dar buen exemplo. metaphora. <ti:zatl ihhuitl p11-
    p33-tla:lia: +metaphor>. 71m2-19|

  ihiohuia =qu [scribal error: ??is this part of the following item?:
    55m].  adquirir con trabajo lo necessario ala vida. dizen per
    metaphoram. <p33-ihi:yo:tl-v05b +metaphor>. 55m-00|

  ihioquiza =n=onihioquiz.  bahear, et per metaphora, mandar alguna
    cosa. <p11-ihi:yo:tl-qui:za +metaphor>. 71m2-6|

  ihtexihui.  gloton; tragon. <ihtitl-ixhui +i>e +metaphor>. 71m1-12|

  ihtexihui =huel.  gloton. <huel1 ihtitl-ixhui +metaphor>. 55m-10|

  ihtic =huehcatlan.  callado que guarda secreto. <huehca-tlan poss-
    ihtitl-co2 +metaphor>. 55m-2|

  ihtixihui.  gloton; tragon. <ihtitl-ixhui +metaphor>. 55m-10|

  ihtlacollaza =nitetla.  librar de seruidumbre. <p11-p52-p51-ihtlacahui-
    caus06-l1-tla:za +ltl>ll +metaphor>. 71m1-14|

  ihuinti cuahuitl ihuinti ic timochihuaz =iuhquimma tetl.  seras assi
    como el que toma palos o piedras para se matar. i. haras mucho mal a
    ti mismo. metaphora. <ihui-prt1-c2-in-mah3 tetl1 ihuinti cuahuitl
    ihuinti i:c1 p12-p54-chi:hua-z +metaphor>. 71m2-8|

  ihuintia =nitla.  dar mal exemplo; destruir el pueblo con mal exemplo;
    per metaphoram; escandalizar; exemplo malo dar. <p11-p51-ihuinti-
    caus08 +metaphor>. 55m-4|

  ihuintia =nitla=onitlaihuintih.  dar mal exemplo. metaphora. <p11-p51-
    ihuinti-caus08 +metaphor>. 71m2-8|

  ihzoloh =te.  cosa que ensuzia. metaphora. <p52-ihzolli-v03a-caus06-
    prt1 +metaphor>. 71m2-16|

  ilacatzohtinemi =teuhtli tlazolli ic nin.  biuir en pecados. <teuhtli
    tlazo:lli i:c1 p11-p54-ilacatztli-v03a-caus06-prt1-ti1-nemi aux01
    +metaphor>. 71m1-4|

  itqui =nite.  gouernar. <p11-p52-itqui +metaphor>. 55m-10|

  itqui =nite=oniteitquic.  regir, o gouernar a otros. metaphora. <p11-
    p52-itqui +metaphor>. 71m2-8|

  ittitia =tlayohualli nicno.  esconderse. <tla6-yohua-l1 p11-p33-p54-
    itta1-caus02 +metaphor>. 71m1-10|

  ittitia tocommonamictia in atlauhtli =iccemayan mixcoyan monehuian
    tocomo.  de tu voluntad y con toda determinacion te echas a perder,
    metaphora. <i:c1-cem-mani-ya:n poss-i:xtli-co1-ya:n poss-nehuiyan
    p12-o:n-p54-itta1- caus03 p12-o:n-p54-na:miqui-caus02 in a:tlauhtli
    +metaphor>. 71m2-6|

  ix =te.  mensajero. <poss-i:xtli +dif +metaphor>. 71m1-15|

  ix tenacaz =te.  embaxador, o mensajero. metaphora; mensajero. <poss-
    i:xtli poss-nacaztli +metaphor>. 71m2-16|

  ixcahua =ahtleh niqu.  auaricia tener. <ah1-tleh p11-p33-i:xtli-ca:hui-
    caus09 +metaphor>. 55m-1|

  ixcahua =ahtleh qu.  escasso; guardador escasso; mezquino; miserable
    escasso. <ah1-tleh p33-i:xtli-ca:hui-caus09 +metaphor>. 71m1-10|

  ixcuamol =itentzon.  mi nieto o bisnieto. metaphora. <poss-te:ntli-
    tzontli poss-i:xtli-cua:itl-molli2 +kin +metaphor>. 71m2-7|

  ixcuamol =te.  generoso de buen linage  {+mis-print: bueu for buen};
    generoso de buen linage; noble de linaje. metaphora. <poss-i:xtli-
    cua:itl-molli2 +kin +metaphor>. 55m-10|

  izte =te.  generoso de buen linage  {+mis-print: bueu for buen};
    generoso de buen linage. <poss-iztitl +i>e +kin +metaphor>. 55m-10|

  iztlactli =tencualactli,.  enga?o o mentira. metaphora. <te:ntli-
    cualactli iztlactli +metaphor>. 71m2-17|

  machitia ? nimitzno.  encomendar su necessidad al mayor, per
    metaphoram. <+metaphor>. 55m-7|

  machitia =atihuitztzo atahhuayo ipan nimitzno.  encomendar su
    necessidad al mayor, per metaphoram. <+tzy>tztz +t>ch +metaphor>.
    55m-7|

  machitia =atihuitzo atahhuayo ipan nimitzno.  encomendar mi
    necessidad^al que me puede socorrer enella, catandole primero la
    beniuolencia. metaphora. <--huitztli-yo:tl1---ahhuatl2-poss-pan-p54-
    mati-caus02-ben +t>ch +tzy>tzy +metaphor>. 71m2-2|

  machtia =atihuitztzo atahhuayo ipan nimitzno.  encomendar su necesidad
    al mayor, per metaphoram, dizen. <+tzy>tztz +t>ch +metaphor>. 71m1-
    9|

  mama =nite.  gouernar. <p11-p52-ma:ma: +metaphor>. 55m-10|

  mamaloni =itconi [scribal error: ??period after ytconi: 55m].
    vasallos o gente plebeya. per methaporam. <itqui-lo:1-ni1 ma:ma:-
    lo:1-ni1 +dif +metaphor>. 55m-19|

  mamaloni =itconi.  vasallos o gente plebeya. per metaphoram. <itqui-
    lo:1-ni1 ma:ma:-lo:1-ni1 +metaphor>. 71m1-20|

  mamaloyan =to.  corte, o audiencia real. metaphora. <poss-ma:ma:-lo:1-
    ya:n +metaphor>. 71m2-25|

  mati =cococ teopouhqui nic.  padecer. <cocoya-delya-c1 teo:tl-po:hua2-
    prt1-c2 p11-p33-mati +metaphor>. 55m-15|

  matzoa =ic nitla [[tlamatzoa =yc ni]].  noticia dar a alguno delo que
    le a de acaecer auisandole,  per metaphoram. <i:c1 p11-p51-ma:itl-
    tzoa +mis_analysis.4 +out.rig +metaphor>. 55m-14|

  matzoa =ic nitla [[tlamatzoa =icni]].  noticia dar a alguno de lo que
    le a^de acaecer, auisandole. <i:c1 p11-p51-ma:itl-tzoa
    +mis_analysis.4a +prob +out.rig +metaphor>. 71m1-16|

  mictia =nino.  escoger lo mejor. <p11-p54-miqui-caus02 +metaphor>. 55m-
    8|

  mimiloa innonetlacuil =mo.  ganar conla hazienda que se da alogro.
    metaphora. <p54-mimilli-v03a-caus06 in poss-p53-p51-cui-l1
    +metaphor>. 71m2-10|

  nacaz =te.  embaxador, o mensajero de grandes. metaphora; mensajero.
    <poss-nacaztli +metaphor>. 71m2-17|

  nahuatilmah =ahnino.  ahincar importunando. <ah1-p11-p54-na:huatl-v04-
    l1-mati-prt1 +t>h +metaphor>. 55m-00|

  namiqui =ahnonno.  biuir en pobreza. per metapho.. <ah1-p11-o:n-p54-
    na:miqui +metaphor>. 55m-2|

  nanahuatia =nite.  aconsejar. <p11-p52-dupl-na:huatl-v04-ben
    +metaphor>. 71m1-1|

  necini icochca ineuhca =in ahhual.  vasallos o gente plebeya. per
    methaporam; vasallos o gente plebeya. per metaphoram. <in ah1-hua:l-
    ne:ci-ni1 poss-cochi-prt1-ca:5 poss-p53-e:hua-prt1-ca:5 +phrase.poss
    +metaphor>. 55m-19|

  nepanoa =nite.  echarse con muger. per metapbora<m>  {??printing
    error: metapbora<a> for metaphora<m>}. <p11-p52-poss-pan-v03a-caus06
    +post.as.noun.1 +metaphor>. 55m-6|

  ohquechia =nite.  dar buen exemplo; dar mal exemplo; edificar a otros
    dandoles buen exemplo; escandalizar; exemplo malo dar. <p11-p52-
    ohtli-quetza-ben +tz>ch +metaphor>. 55m-4|

  omilhuitica =i [scribal error: ??this should not be split: 71m1].
    vasallos o gente plebeya. per metaphoram. <+metaphor>. 71m1-20|

  onoc =cuahuic cozolco n.  ni?ear hazer cosas de ni?os. <cuahuitl-co2
    co:zolli-co1 p11-o:n-o-prt2 +metaphor>. 71m1-16|

  oquichhuia =nic.  adquirir con trabajo lo necessario ala vida. dizen
    per metaphoram. <p11-p33-oquichtli-v05b +metaphor>. 55m-00|

  pachoa =atl cecec tzitzicaztli tetech nic.  emmendar castigando.
    <a:tl1 dupl-ce:tl-v01b-delya-c1 tzi:tzica:ztli poss-tech1 p11-p33-
    pachihui-caus06 +out.rig +metaphor>. 71m1-9|

  papactli =tla.  horro o horra de esclauo. <p51-dupl-pa:ca-l2
    +metaphor>. 55m-11|

  pehuilmah =ahnino.  ahincar importunando. <+t>h +metaphor>. 55m-00|

  petlatitlan nicalaqui =xomolco=xomolco petlatitlan onicalac.
    esconderse. metaphora. <xomolli-co1 petlatl-ti1-tlan p11-calaqui
    +metaphor>. 71m2-27|

  pilcatinemi =teixtla ni.  ahincar importunando. <poss-i:xtli-tlan
    piloa:-ca13-ti1-nemi aux01 +del.n +metaphor>. 55m-00|

  pilcatinemi =teixtlan ni.  ahincar importunando. <poss-i:xtli-tlan p11-
    piloa:-ca13-ti1-nemi aux01 +metaphor>. 71m1-1|

  piloa =tenacaztitech nino=tenacaztitech oninopiloh.  asirse delas
    orejas de alguno, o reprehender y corregir a otro. metaphora. <poss-
    nacaztli-ti1-tech1 p11-p54-piloa: +metaphor>. 71m2-17|

  piloani =ahmo mo.  ynobediente por ser soberuio y presumptuoso, per
    metapho.; ynobediente; rebelde y presumptuoso. <ah1-mo: p54-piloa:-
    ni1 +metaphor>. 55m-12|

  pilollani =ahmo mo.  ynobediente, rebelde y presumptuoso. <+prob
    +metaphor>. 71m1-13|

  pinotiliztli.  encogimiento del que es empachoso y vergonzoso.
    metaphora. <pino:tl-v01a-liz +metaphor>. 71m2-14|

  pinoyotl.  encogimiento de persona empachosa y vergonzosa. metaphora.
    <pino:tl-yo:tl1 +metaphor>. 71m2-14|

  pipiloa =teyollocaltitech nino.  emmendar castigando. <p52-yo:lli-
    yo:tl1-calli-ti1-tech1 p11-p54-dupl-piloa: +ly>ll +metaphor>. 71m1-
    9|

  pocmictia =nitla=onitlapocmictih.  dar pena y enojo a otros.
    metaphora. <p11-p51-po:ca-l2-miqui-caus02 +metaphor>. 71m2-14|

  quequetza =nino.  ni?ear hazer cosas de ni?os. <p11-p54-dupl-quetza
    +metaphor>. 55m-14|

  quetzalhuan =te.  hijos y hijas; hijos o hijas de caualleros.
    metaphora. <poss-quetzalli-plur04 +kin +metaphor>. 55m-11|

  quetzalli =cozcatl.  hijos y hijas; hijos o hijas. metaphora.
    <co:zcatl quetzalli +kin +metaphor>. 71m1-13|

  quiahuacpa nitlahtoa =no=noquiahuacpa onitlatoh.  encubrir alos otros
    lo que tiene enel secreto de su corazon, o el intento que tiene.
    metaphora. <poss-quiya:huatl-co2-pa1 p11-p51-ihtahui-caus06
    +metaphor>. 71m2-13|

  tapalcamahuiltia =ni.  ni?ear hazer cosas de ni?os. <p11-tapalcatl-p54-
    a:huiya-delya-l1-v04-caus08 +ambig +metaphor>. 55m-14|

  teca =cococ teopouhqui notech mo.  padecer. <cocoya-delya-c1 teo:tl-
    po:hua2-prt1-c2 poss-tech1 p54-te:ca +out.rig +metaphor .bbbb>. 55m-
    15|

  teca =nite.  echarse con muger. per metapbora<m>  {??printing error:
    metapbora<a> for metaphora<m>}. <p11-p52-te:ca +metaphor>. 55m-6|

  teca =tlanahuac nitla.  destruir los yerros del pueblo, per
    metaphoram. <poss-na:huatl-co2 p11-p51-te:ca +metaphor>. 55m-6|

  tecaqueh =ic onech.  malo estar mucho quasi ala muerte; malo estar
    mucho; quasi a la muerte. <i:c1 o:-p31-te:ca-plur01 +metaphor
    +out.rig>. 55m-13|

  tech monequi =ahtleh no.  biuir en pobreza. per metapho.. <ah1-tleh
    poss-tech1 p54-nequi +out.rig +irony +metaphor>. 55m-2|

  tech nahci =te.  ayuntarse carnalmente a muger. <poss-tech1 p11-ahci
    +out.rig +metaphor>. 55m-00|

  tecuiniz =iuhquin ye ni.  calentura grande tener. <ihui-prt1-c2-in ye1
    p11-tecui:ni-z +metaphor>. 55m-2|

  temazcalco =iuhquin.  hazer calor. <ihui-prt1-c2-in tema-lizc-calli-
    co1 +metaphor>. 55m-11|

  temazcalco =iuhquin [scribal error: ??printing error: comma instead of
    period; m5 and m2 have "iuhquin comic" and "iuhquin temazcalco" as
    separate items: 71m1].  hazer calor. <ihui-prt1-c2-in tema-lizc-
    calli-co1 +metaphor>. 71m1-12|

  tentzon =te.  generoso de buen linage  {+mis-print: bueu for buen};
    generoso de buen linage. <poss-te:ntli-tzontli +kin +metaphor>. 55m-
    10|

  teopouhqui nicmati =cococ.  padecer. <cocoya-delya-c1 teo:tl-po:hua2-
    prt1-c2 p11-p33-mati .bbbb +metaphor>. 71m1-16|

  teopouhqui notech moteca =cococ.  padecer. <cocoya-delya-c1 teo:tl-
    po:hua2-prt1-c2 poss-tech1 p54-te:ca +out.rig .bbbb +metaphor>. 71m1-
    16|

  tepexihuia =nino.  caer en gran delito.; caer en^graue delicto. <p11-
    p54-tepexitl-v05b +metaphor>. 55m-2|

  tepexihuiani =mo.  caydo assi  (assi is cayda en gran delito. per
    metaphoram); despe?ado; o el que cometio algun crimen graue.
    metaphora. <p54-tepexitl-v05b-ni1 +metaphor>. 55m-2|

  tepexihuiliztli =ne.  cayda en gran delito. per metaphoram; cayda en
    graue delicto. <p53-tepexitl-v05b-liz +metaphor>. 55m-2|

  tequililli iauh imetl, imalac itzotzopaz =tla.  horro o horra de
    esclauo. <p51-tequi1-ben-l1 poss-a:tl1-uh poss-metlatl poss-malacatl
    poss-tzo:tzopa:ztli +dif +metaphor>. 71m1-13|

  tequililli iauh imetl imalac itzotzopaz =tla.  muger horra que fue
    antes esclaua. metaphora. <p51-tequi1-ben-l1 poss-a:tl1-uh poss-
    metlatl poss-malacatl poss-tzo:tzopa:ztli +metaphor>. 71m2-23|

  tequililli ihuic imecapal =tla.  horro o horra de esclauo; horro.
    metaphora. <p51-tequi1-ben-l1 poss-huictli poss-mecatl-palli +dif
    +metaphor>. 71m1-13|

  teteca ?ctoc nic.  destruir los yerros del pueblo, per metaphoram.
    <caqui2-prt1-ti1-o-prt2 aux13 p11-p33-dupl-te:ca +metaphor>. 55m-6|

  tlacaahuiloa immoyollotzin =nic.  encomendar su necessidad al mayor,
    per metaphoram. <p11-p33-tla:catl-a:huiya-delya-l1-v03a-caus06 in
    poss-yo:lli-yo:tl1-tzin +ly>ll +metaphor>. 55m-7|

  tlacaahuiloa immoyollotzin ac nimitznomachtia =nictla.  encomendar su
    necesidad al mayor, per metaphoram, dizen. <+metaphor>. 71m1-9|

  tlachinolli =atl.  guerra. <a:tl1 p51-chinahui-caus06-l1 +metaphor>.
    55m-10|

  tlachinolli =teoatl.  guerra. <teo:tl-a:tl1 p51-chinahui-caus06-l1
    +metaphor>. 55m-10|

  tlahpaliuhcahuia =nitla.  adquirir con trabajo lo necessario ala vida.
    dizen per metaphoram. <p11-p51-tlahpalli-v03a-prt1-ca:5-v05b
    +metaphor>. 55m-00|

  tlahtlacollaza =nite.  librar de seruidumbre. per metaphoram. <p11-p52-
    p51-ihtlacahui-caus06-l1-tla:za +ltl>ll +metaphor>. 55m-12|

  tlahuelilocaaquilia =nitla.  destruir el pueblo con mal exemplo, per
    metaphoram. <p11-p51-tlahue:lli-v13-lo:1-ca:6-aqui-ben +metaphor>.
    55m-6|

  tlahuelilocacuitia =nitla.  destruir el pueblo con mal exemplo, per
    metaphoram. <p11-p51-tlahue:lli-v13-lo:1-ca:6-cui-caus02 +metaphor>.
    55m-6|

  tlahuelilocamaca =nitla.  destruir el pueblo con mal exemplo, per
    metaphoram. <p11-p51-tlahue:lli-v13-lo:1-ca:6-maca +metaphor>. 55m-
    6|

  tlahuelilocatilia =nitla.  destruir el pueblo con mal exemplo, per
    metaphoram. <p11-p51-tlahue:lli-v13-lo:1-ca:5-v01a-caus04
    +metaphor>. 55m-6|

  tlalmahuiltia =ni.  ni?ear hazer cosas de ni?os. <p11-tla:lli-p54-
    a:huiya-delya-l1-v04-caus08 +ambig +metaphor>. 55m-14|

  tlalmahuiltia =ni=onitlalmahuiltih.  jugar el ni?o conla tierra,
    haziendo montocillos della. &c. y tomase metaphorice. por hazer
    ni?erias, locuras y necedades el hombre insipiente. <p11-tla:lli-p54-
    a:huiya-delya-l1-v04-caus08 +ambig +metaphor>. 71m2-21|

  tlalmahuiltiani.  elque assi juega conla tierra. &c  (assi is jugar el
    ni?o conla tierra, haziendo montocillos della. &c. y tomase
    metaphorice. por hazer ni?erias, locuras y necedades el hombre
    insipiente). <tla:lli-p54-a:huiya-delya-l1-v04-caus08-ni1 +ambig
    +metaphor>. 71m2-21|

  tlalmahuiltihqui.  el ni?o que juega desta manera  (desta manera is
    jugar el ni?o conla tierra, haziendo montocillos della. &c. y tomase
    metaphorice. por hazer ni?erias, locuras y necedades el hombre
    insipiente). <tla:lli-p54-a:huiya-delya-l1-v04-caus08=0-prt1-qui1
    +ambig +metaphor>. 71m2-21|

  tlalmahuiltiliztli.  el acto de jugar assi el nino. &c  (assi is jugar
    el ni?o conla tierra, haziendo montocillos della. &c. y tomase
    metaphorice. por hazer ni?erias, locuras y necedades el hombre
    insipiente). <tla:lli-p54-a:huiya-delya-l1-v04-caus08=0-liz +ambig
    +metaphor>. 71m2-21|

  tlalololoa =ni=onitlalololoh.   <lo mesmo es que tlalmahuiltia> (jugar
    el ni?o conla tierra, haziendo montocillos della. &c. y tomase
    metaphorice. por hazer ni?erias, locuras y necedades el hombre
    insipiente). <p11-tla:lli-olo:lli-v03a-caus06 +metaphor>. 71m2-21|

  tlalololoani.   <lo mesmo es que tlalmauiltiani> (jugar el ni?o con la
    tierra, haziendo montocillos della. &c. y tomase metaphorice. por
    hazer ni?erias, locuras y necedades el hombre insipiente). <tla:lli-
    olo:lli-v03a-caus06-ni1 +metaphor>. 71m2-21|

  tlalololohqui.   <lo mesmo es que tlalmauiltiqui>. <tla:lli-olo:lli-
    v03a-caus06-prt1-qui1 +metaphor>. 71m2-21|

  tlalololohtinemi =ni=onitlalololohtinen.   <lo mesmo es que
    tlalmahuiltia>. <p11-tla:lli-olo:lli-v03a-caus06-prt1-ti1-nemi aux01
    +metaphor>. 71m2-21|

  tlalolololiztli.   <lo mesmo es que tlalmauiltiliztli> (jugar el ni?o
    con la tierra, haziendo montocillos della. &c. y tomase metaphorice.
    por hazer ni?erias, locuras y necedades el hombre insipiente).
    <tla:lli-olo:lli-v03a-caus06-liz +metaphor>. 71m2-21|

  tlalyoa.  despoblarse el pueblo por pestilencia o guerra. <tla:lli-
    yohua +metaphor +del.w>. 71m1-8|

  tlalyohua.  despoblar#se el pueblo por enfermedad o guerra. <tla:lli-
    yohua +ly>ly +prob +metaphor +ret.w>. 55m-6|

  tlanitlaza =nitla.  encubrir o dissimular culpa de otro. per
    metaphoram; encubrir o dissimular culpa de otro. <p11-p51-tlan-i2-
    tla:za +metaphor>. 55m-7|

  tlanitlazaliztli =tla.  encubrimiento assi  (assi is encubierta
    culpa). <p51-tlan-i2-tla:za-liz +metaphor>. 55m-7|

  tlanitlazalli =tla.  encubierta culpa. <p51-tlan-i2-tla:za-l1
    +metaphor>. 71m1-10|

  tlanitlazani =tla.  encubridor tal  (tal is encubrir o dissimular
    culpa de otro. per metaphoram); encubridor tal  (tal is encubrir o
    dissimular culpa de otro). <p51-tlan-i2-tla:za-ni1 +metaphor>. 55m-
    7|

  tlapacholli =tla.  callada cosa que no se diuulga. <dupl-p51-pachihui-
    caus06-l1 +fusion +metaphor>. 55m-2|

  tlapalli nictlalia =tlilli.  dar buen exemplo. <tli:lli p51-pa:3-l1
    p11-p33-tla:lia: +metaphor>. 55m-4|

  tlapalli nictlalia =tlilli [scribal error: ??printing error: same as
    item four elements above: 71m1].  edificar a otros dandoles buen
    exemplo. <tli:lli p51-pa:3-l1 p11-p33-tla:lia: +metaphor>. 71m1-9|

  tlapalli nictlalia =tlilli=tlilli tlapalli onictlalih.  dar buen
    exemplo. metaphora. <tli:lli p51-pa:3-l1 p11-p33-tla:lia:
    +metaphor>. 71m2-25|

  tlapallo =te.  generoso de buen linage  {+mis-print: bueu for buen};
    generoso de buen linage; hijo o hija de noble linage. metaphora.
    <poss-p51-pa:3-l1-yo:tl1 +ly>ll +kin +metaphor>. 55m-10|

  tlapallotia =nitla.  dar buen exemplo; edificar a otros dandoles buen
    exemplo. <p11-p51-p51-pa:3-l1-yo:tl1-v04-caus08 +ly>ll +metaphor>.
    55m-4|

  tlapanca =te.  generoso de buen linage  {+mis-print: bueu for buen};
    generoso de buen linage. <poss-tlapa:ni-prt1-ca:5 +kin +metaphor>.
    55m-10|

  tlapoa in nix noyollo =nic.  atento estar. <p11-p33-tlapohui-del.hui-
    caus08 in poss-i:xtli poss-yo:lli-yo:tl1 +ly>ll +del.w +metaphor>.
    55m-1|

  tlatia =nitetla=onitetlatlatih  [[tlatlatia =nite=onitetlatlati]].
    matar a otro. metaphora. <p11-p52-p51-tla:tia:2 +mis_analysis.
    +metaphor>. 71m2-24|

  tlazolli ic ninilacatzohtinemi =teuhtli.  biuir en pecados. <teuhtli
    tlazo:lli i:c1 p11-p54-ilacatztli-v03a-caus06-prt1-ti1-nemi aux01
    +metaphor>. 55m-2|

  tlazolli nicololohtinemi =teuhtli.  biuir en pecados. <teuhtli
    tlazo:lli p11-p33-olo:lli-v03a-caus06-prt1-ti1-nemi aux01
    +metaphor>. 55m-2|

  tlehuia =nino.  calentura grande tener. <p11-p54-tletl1-v05b
    +metaphor>. 55m-2|

  tlepopoca =ni.  calentura grande tener. <p11-tletl1-dupl-po:ca
    +metaphor>. 55m-2|

  tlilli nictlalia =tlapalli=tlapalli tlilli onictlalih.  dar buen
    exemplo. metaphora. <p51-pa:3-l1 tli:lli p11-p33-tla:lia:
    +metaphor>. 71m2-22|

  tlillotia =nitla.  dar buen exemplo; edificar a otros dandoles buen
    exemplo. <p11-p51-tli:lli-yo:tl1-v04-caus08 +ly>ll +metaphor>. 55m-
    4|

  tlillotia =nitla=onitlatlillotih.  dar buen exemplo. metaphora. <p11-
    p51-tli:lli-yo:tl1-v04-caus08 +ly>ll +metaphor>. 71m2-25|

  toca =tlayohualli nic.  esconderse. <tla6-yohua-l1 p11-p33-to:ca1
    +metaphor>. 71m1-10|

  toctia =tetl cuahuitl nicte.  emmendar castigando. <tetl1 cuahuitl p11-
    p33-p52-toca2-caus02 +metaphor>. 55m-7|

  tonallantlamachtia in cocoliztli =mo.  despoblar#se el pueblo por
    enfermedad o guerra. <+metaphor>. 55m-6|

  tonehua =ni.  padecer. <p11-to:ne:hua .bbbb +metaphor>. 55m-15|

  tonehua ic chichinaca in noyollo in nonacayo =ic.  adquirir con
    trabajo lo necessario ala vida. dizen per metaphoram. <i:c1
    to:ne:hua i:c1 chichinaca in poss-yo:lli-yo:tl1- in poss-nacatl-
    yo:tl1 +ly>ll +metaphor>. 55m-00|

  tzicueuhca =te.  generoso de buen linage  {+mis-print: bueu for buen};
    generoso de buen linage. <poss-tzi:cue:hua-prt1-ca:5 +kin
    +metaphor>. 55m-10|

  tzimmatoca =nite=onitetzimmatocac.  examinar algun negocio,
    inquiriendo de como passo, para saber la verdad. metaphora. <p11-p52-
    tzi:ntli-ma:itl-toca2 +metaphor>. 71m2-26|

  tzimmatocani =te.  examinador o inquisidor. metaphora. <p52-tzi:ntli-
    ma:itl-toca2-ni1 +metaphor>. 71m2-19|

  tzinehua =nite.  deponer del se?orio; deponer de se?orio o de oficio.
    <p11-p52-tzi:ntli-e:hua +metaphor>. 55m-5|

  tzinehua =nite=onitetzineuh.  deponer y quitar a alguno del officio o
    cargo que tenia, o echar a alguno cabeza baxo enel agua, o dela
    ventana abaxo. metaphora. <p11-p52-tzi:ntli-e:hua +metaphor>. 71m2-
    26|

  tzinehua =nitla=onitlatzineuh.  asolar y destruir el pueblo
    (metaphora), o desarraygar arboles, o cosa semejante. <p11-p51-
    tzi:ntli-e:hua +metaphor>. 71m2-26|

  tzinehualiztli =te.  deposicion o priuacion de oficio. metaphora. <p52-
    tzi:ntli-e:hua-liz +metaphor>. 71m2-19|

  tzinichotia =nic.  atar plumas ricas,juntandolas para ponerlas en
    algun plumaje,o  en alguna imagen que se haze de pluma, et per
    metaphoram,se  toma o significa, el fundamento,o el fundar la
    platica o sermon  sobre alguna auctoridad de escriptura, &c
    {??printing error: anctoridad for autoridad (in both the platzmann
    and in the facsimile)}. <+prob +metaphor>. 71m1-3|

  tzinichotia =nitla.  atar plumas ricas,juntandolas para ponerlas en
    algun plumaje,o  en alguna imagen que se haze de pluma, et per
    metaphoram,se  toma o significa, el fundamento,o el fundar la
    platica o sermon  sobre alguna auctoridad de escriptura, &c
    {??printing error: anctoridad for autoridad (in both the platzmann
    and in the facsimile)}. <+metaphor>. 71m1-3|

  tzintlalteppachihui =ni=onitzintlalteppachiuh.  estar quieto, pacifico
    y sosegado. metaphora. <p11-tzi:ntli-tla:lli-teuhti-pachihui
    +metaphor>. 71m2-26|

  tzintlanhuia =nite=onitetzintlanhuih.  examinar o inquirir de algun
    negocio, para saber como passo. metaphora. <p11-p52-tzi:ntli-tlan-
    v05b +metaphor>. 71m2-26|

  tzitzicaztli tetech nicpachoa =atl cecec.  emmendar castigando. <a:tl1
    dupl-ce:tl-v01b-delya-c1 tzi:tzica:ztli poss-tech1 p11-p33-pachihui-
    caus06 +out.rig +metaphor>. 55m-7|

  tzitzicaztli tetech nicpachoa =itztic atl =itztic
    atltzitzicaztlitetech onicpachoh.  corregir, o castigar a otro.
    metaphora. <i:tztli-tic a:tl1 tzi:tzica:ztli-poss-tech1-pachihui-
    caus06 +out.rig +metaphor>. 71m2-8|

  tzitzicaztli tetech nicpachoa =huitztli,=huitztli tzitzicaztli tetech
    onicpachoh.  reprehender y castigar aotro. metaphora. <huitztli-
    tzi:tzica:ztli-poss-tech1-pachihui-caus06 +out.rig +metaphor>. 71m2-
    27|

  tzon =te.  generoso de buen linage  {+mis-print: bueu for buen};
    generoso de buen linage. <poss-tzontli +kin +metaphor>. 55m-10|

  xayacatia =nicno=onicnoxayacatih.  emmaxcararse con ruynes costumbres.
    metaphora. <p11-p33-p54-xa:yacatl-v04-caus08 +metaphor>. 71m2-27|

  xiotia =nino=oninoxiotih.  tomar exemplo de otros. metaphora o poner
    las prunideras ala^tela. <p11-p54-xiyo:tl-v04-caus08 +metaphor>.
    71m2-27|

  xiotl quitlalia =octacatl.  el que da buen exemplo. metaphora.
    <octacatl xiyo:tl p33-tla:lia: +metaphor>. 71m2-13|

  xocomictia =nitla.  dar mal exemplo; destruir el pueblo con mal
    exemplo; per metaphoram; escandalizar; exemplo malo dar. <p11-p51-
    xocotl-miqui-caus02 +metaphor>. 55m-4|

  xocomictia =nitla=onitlaxocomictih.  dar mal exemplo a todo el pueblo,
    haziendolo errar. metaphora. <p11-p51-xocotl-miqui-caus02
    +metaphor>. 71m2-27|

  xonexca =ic ni.  noticia dar a alguno delo que le a de acaecer
    auisandole,  per metaphoram; noticia dar a alguno de lo que le a^de
    acaecer; auisandole. <+metaphor +prob>. 55m-14|

  xotla =ni.  calentura grande tener. <p11-xo:tla1 +metaphor>. 55m-2|

  yamancayotl.  blandura, yper metaphoram. quiere dezir, riqueza y
    prosperidad. <yama:ni-prt1-ca:5-yo:tl1 +metaphor>. 71m2-5|

  yecoa =nic.  echarse con muger. per metapbora<m>  {??printing error:
    metapbora<a> for metaphora<m>}. <p11-p33-yecoa: +metaphor>. 55m-6|

  yohualli nicnoittitia =tla.  esconderse. <tla6-yohua-l1 p11-p33-p54-
    itta1-caus02 +metaphor>. 55m-8|

  yohualli nicnotoctia =tla.  esconderse. <tla6-yohua-l1 p11-p33-p54-
    toca2-caus02 +metaphor>. 55m-8|

  yohualli nictoca =tla.  esconderse. <tla6-yohua-l1 p11-p33-to:ca1
    +metaphor>. 55m-8|

  yohuayan =ichtaca tla.  a escondidas; escondidamente; a^escondidadas.
    <ichtaca tla6-yohua-ya:n +metaphor>. 55m-00|

  yohuayan nicalaqui =xomolco tla.  esconderse. <xomolli-co1 tla6-yohua-
    ya:n p11-calaqui +metaphor>. 55m-8|

  yohuayan nicalaqui =xomolco tla=xomolco tlayohuayan onicalac.
    esconderse. metaphora. <xomolli-co1 tla6-yohua-ya:n p11-calaqui
    +metaphor>. 71m2-27|

  yollopiltic.  generoso de buen linage. <yo:lli-yo:tl1-pilli-tic +ly>ll
    +kin +metaphor>. 71m1-12|

count 378




Quoting Alec Battles <alec.battles at gmail.com>:

> After some Google searching, I wasn't able to find anything about
> Nahuatl idioms.
>
> English idioms tend arrive from other linguistic regions, move in, and
> make themselves very familiar. I don't know if the French were the
> first to say 'that's not my cup of tea,' but a friend has informed me
> that this idiom is very French indeed. I love English idioms, and one
> of my creative projects is to come up with new ones (for fun, but also
> for the free adoption of people involved in imaginative writing).
>
> Chinese idioms are quite different from English idioms. Usually, they
> reflect a much older stage of the language. In a way, they are nothing
> like English idioms, because their use shows a kind of uncommon
> erudition. It would be more likely to encounter Chinese idioms in
> print, less likely to encounter them in speech.
>
> Nonetheless, both languages are, in terms of current linguistic
> typology, 'analytic.'
>
> I am curious about Nahuatl idioms, classical and modern-dialectical.
> Can anyone give me some descriptions or examples of these?
>
> Alec
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>




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From karttu at comcast.net  Fri Oct  8 02:57:35 2010
From: karttu at comcast.net (Frances Karttunen)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2010 22:57:35 -0400
Subject: How do Nahuatl idioms compare to English idioms? How about
 Chinese idioms? Examples?
In-Reply-To: <20101007145345.agk67ffq4gkws0s4@webmail.iu.edu>
Message-ID: <THU.7.OCT.2010.225735.0400.KARTTU@COMCAST.NET>

On Oct 7, 2010, at 2:53 PM, Campbell, R. Joe wrote:

> Alec,
>
>    I agree with Fran's suggestions on where to look for idioms.  And
> since "difrasismos" are an interesting group of idioms, it is worth
> adding a super-source for them:
>   Mercedes Montes de Oca Vega
>   Los difrasismos en el Nahuatl del siglo XVI
>   Doctoral thesis, UNAM, 2000
>

The essay about difrasismos on the Mexicolore site that I mentioned  
is by Dr. Montes de Oca Vega.

www,mexicolore.co.uk is a nifty site.  The home page has a left-hand  
sidebar listing some options, the bottom-most of which is "Aztec  
pages." Selecting that gets you to an even longer list of categories  
such as Aztec Gods, Aztec Health, Aztec Music, Aztec Calendar?There's  
even an Ask the Experts option, and the contributors are our own very  
distinguished colleagues.

Thanks, Joe, for the exhaustive list of "metaphors" from Molina!

Fran




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From alec.battles at gmail.com  Thu Oct  7 13:45:46 2010
From: alec.battles at gmail.com (Alec Battles)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2010 22:45:46 +0900
Subject: How do Nahuatl idioms compare to English idioms? How about
 Chinese idioms? Examples?
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTiknediNJCnRVp4zgq5KKX2O8JHhEnS5fMoiHDzY@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <THU.7.OCT.2010.224546.0900.ALEC.BATTLES@GMAIL.COM>

Hi Frances

I spent about 6 months in Mexico when I was barely out of high school,
and I well remember being told 'aguas' by my friends and many friendly
hosts who must have thought I was a silly guero, which I basically
was. The expression is pretty common among speakers all over the Valle
de Mexico and the state of Morelos. I never heard 'hechame aguas,'
though. It would be interesting to see how this relates to a Nahuatl
(or even Mesoamerican, as I'm sure some idioms would have come in from
these languages). I'm something of an idiom collector myself. I've
read that the German word for 'idiom' is a compound noun of 'mouth' +
'art', which sums up my own feelings quite nicely.

Alec
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From alec.battles at gmail.com  Thu Oct  7 15:00:25 2010
From: alec.battles at gmail.com (Alec Battles)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 00:00:25 +0900
Subject: How do Nahuatl idioms compare to English idioms? How about
 Chinese idioms? Examples?
In-Reply-To: <B7FC3DD9-4885-477F-AB0F-C9EA881C2765@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <FRI.8.OCT.2010.000025.0900.ALEC.BATTLES@GMAIL.COM>

Excellent. I had a feeling they'd have their own term (like the
Chinese 'chengyu' ---> 'become/became language'). Thank you.

Alec
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From alec.battles at gmail.com  Fri Oct  8 09:37:51 2010
From: alec.battles at gmail.com (Alec Battles)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 18:37:51 +0900
Subject: How do Nahuatl idioms compare to English idioms? How about
 Chinese idioms? Examples?
In-Reply-To: <9F7A173C-3490-4EBA-97F6-E4FAD8809D57@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <FRI.8.OCT.2010.183751.0900.ALEC.BATTLES@GMAIL.COM>

> www,mexicolore.co.uk is a nifty site. ?The home page has a left-hand
> sidebar listing some options, the bottom-most of which is "Aztec
> pages." Selecting that gets you to an even longer list of categories
> such as Aztec Gods, Aztec Health, Aztec Music, Aztec Calendar?There's
> even an Ask the Experts option, and the contributors are our own very
> distinguished colleagues.

I'll be sure to check it out.

> Thanks, Joe, for the exhaustive list of "metaphors" from Molina!

That was an excellent list, Joe. May I ask which computer program you
used to search/print them?

Alec

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From campbel at indiana.edu  Fri Oct  8 15:51:10 2010
From: campbel at indiana.edu (Campbell, R. Joe)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 11:51:10 -0400
Subject: How do Nahuatl idioms compare to English idioms? How about
 Chinese idioms? Examples?
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikQ0UeepbfU5zH++EM0Wpf_vq1shvG_DRGmn=AZ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.8.OCT.2010.115110.0400.CAMPBEL@INDIANA.EDU>

Alec,

   My programs are all written in a language called SPITBOL, which is 
an advanced form of a language called SNOBOL4 developed by Bell 
Telephone Labs.
I've been developing them since about 1966 and I always refer to them 
with the metaphor "kitchen-table" programs, even though my computer has 
never been on a kitchen table -- and couldn't have been, since I don't 
have a kitchen table.

|8-)

Joe



Quoting Alec Battles <alec.battles at gmail.com>:

>> www,mexicolore.co.uk is a nifty site. ?The home page has a left-hand
>> sidebar listing some options, the bottom-most of which is "Aztec
>> pages." Selecting that gets you to an even longer list of categories
>> such as Aztec Gods, Aztec Health, Aztec Music, Aztec Calendar?There's
>> even an Ask the Experts option, and the contributors are our own very
>> distinguished colleagues.
>
> I'll be sure to check it out.
>
>> Thanks, Joe, for the exhaustive list of "metaphors" from Molina!
>
> That was an excellent list, Joe. May I ask which computer program you
> used to search/print them?
>
> Alec
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>




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Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From keeler.peter at gmail.com  Sun Oct 10 17:27:31 2010
From: keeler.peter at gmail.com (Peter Keeler)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2010 12:27:31 -0500
Subject: oyoualli
Message-ID: <SUN.10.OCT.2010.122731.0500.KEELER.PETER@GMAIL.COM>

Greetings, fellow Mesoamericanists - 

    Here is a question from a lurking Mayanist: 

         what can you tell me about the word oyoualli?

     I was surprised not to find it in the usual dictionaries,  nor, to my eye, any related word, or other spelling.

    Oyoualli is the term often used by archaeologists and art historians of pre-Columbian central Mexican cultures for a  cut-shell pectoral pendant. The pendant is a cross-section cut from the giant Mexican limpet, patella mexicana, oval in shape, with a hole in the middle.  Allegedly, for the Mexica it had connotations of female genitalia.

  thanks in advance for your comments, 

            Peter Keeler
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From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx  Mon Oct 11 15:39:54 2010
From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 10:39:54 -0500
Subject: oyoualli
In-Reply-To: <154A5BA4-0120-4218-AF78-BF6A2AB3075E@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <MON.11.OCT.2010.103954.0500.DCWRIGHT@PRODIGY.NET.MX>

Buenos d?as, Peter.

The use of "oyoualli" (*oyohualli* /oyowalli/) to refer to a pectoral
ornament can be traced back to Seler, who Mesoamericanists have often used
as a stepping-stone into iconography. In his Collected works (II, 93) he
describes a relief on a rock near Huaxtepec as representing "the dance god
with coyote ears on his temples and the *oyoualli* breast ornament" (the
latter element is not clearly represented in the drawing). In another
article (IV, 146) he relates how dead warriors as Mimixcoa greet the rising
Sun "beating upon their shields and rattling their *oyoualli* ornaments in
its direction". He cites Sahag?n, book 3, appendix, chapter 3. I checked
this source and didn?t find the word *oyohualli.* He must have gotten it
somewhere, but he doesn't give us any clues to follow.

John Bierhorst, in his concordance to the *Cantares mexicanos*, has an entry
for the word *oyohualli,* which he translated as "leg bells (worn by
warriors)" and "the sound of screaming." He provides several references to
this word and its variants in the *Cantares mexicanos* manuscript and in
other sources, notably the *Florentine codex,* that you can use to follow up
on the word and see it in different contexts. Bierhorst's book is available
online.

I could not find anything about the ornament you describe in Lourdes Su?rez
Diez's book "Conchas y caracoles," which is the first place I look for
information on Mesoamerican shell ornaments.

Saludos desde Guanajuato,

David Wright

References

Bierhorst, John, A Nahuatl-English dictionary and concordance to the
Cantares mexicanos, with an analytic transcription and grammatical notes,
Stanford, Stanford University Press, 1985.

Bierhorst, John, ?A Nahuatl-English dictionary and concordance to the
Cantares mexicanos, with an analytic transcription and grammatical notes,?
facsimile of the 1985 ed., in *Ballads of the lords of New Spain,* digital
ed., John Bierhorst, editor and translator, Austin, University of Texas
Press, 2009 (http://utdi.org/book/pdf/dictionary.pdf; access: January 7,
2010).

Sahag?n, Bernardino de, *Florentine codex, general history of the things of
New Spain,* 1st. ed./2nd. ed./reprint, 13 vols., Arthur J. O. Anderson and
Charles E. Dibble, editors and translators, Santa Fe/Salt Lake City, The
School of American Research/The University of Utah, 1974-1982.

Seler, Eduard Georg, *Collected works in Mesoamerican linguistics and
archaeology, English translations of German papers from Gesammelte
abhandlungen zur amerikanischen sprach- und alterthumskunde,* 2nd. ed., 6
vols., Charles P. Bowditch, translation supervisor; Frank E. Comparato, J.
Eric S. Thompson, and Francis B. Richardson, editors, Lancaster,
Labyrinthos, 1990-1998.

Su?rez Diez, Lourdes, *Conchas y caracoles, ese universo maravilloso,* 2nd.
ed., Mexico, Instituto Nacional de Antropolog?a e Historia, 2007.

-----Mensaje original-----
De: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org [mailto:nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org]
En nombre de Peter Keeler
Enviado el: domingo, 10 de octubre de 2010 12:28
Para: Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
Asunto: [Nahuat-l] oyoualli

Greetings, fellow Mesoamericanists - 

Here is a question from a lurking Mayanist: 

what can you tell me about the word oyoualli?

I was surprised not to find it in the usual dictionaries,  nor, to my eye,
any related word, or other spelling.

Oyoualli is the term often used by archaeologists and art historians of
pre-Columbian central Mexican cultures for a  cut-shell pectoral pendant.
The pendant is a cross-section cut from the giant Mexican limpet, patella
mexicana, oval in shape, with a hole in the middle.  Allegedly, for the
Mexica it had connotations of female genitalia.

thanks in advance for your comments, 

Peter Keeler


_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From h.kammler at em.uni-frankfurt.de  Mon Oct 11 18:02:33 2010
From: h.kammler at em.uni-frankfurt.de (Henry Kammler)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 20:02:33 +0200
Subject: oyoualli
In-Reply-To: <000901cb695a$8d44caa0$a7ce5fe0$@net.mx>
Message-ID: <MON.11.OCT.2010.200233.0200.H.KAMMLER@EM.UNIFRANKFURT.DE>

I try again, using Windows ISO-8859-1 settings.

[The Listserv scrambles UNICODE, feels like 1993...]
[Workaround: If you click on "show message source" in your mailprogram 
you can see the raw text of  a "scrambled" message, and it shows 
correctly.]

Seler in the analytical wordlist to his extracts from Sahag?n ("Einige 
Kapitel aus dem Geschichtswerk des Fray B. de Sahag?n", 1927) gives 
the following related forms:

oyo-a, oyo-ua "schreien" [scream]
oyo-ualli "Geschrei" [screaming]
oyouh-ti-nemi "er schreit andauernd" [he screams all the time]

The semantic relation to the pectoral is obscure (or very far-flung at 
best if you consider metaphorical likenness of spiral form, whirling 
wind and the air set into motion by screaming, cf. the Aztec/Mixtec 
"speaking" glyph).

I don' have Simeon at hand, but [oyowalli] is not in Molina.

As is evident, phonemically many versions are thinkable. I'd 
experiment with a composition based on [o'-] < [o'tli] "path, road".

In Molina we have /yohualli/ for "noche" and many related forms 
referring to nocturnal activities and darkness. A composition with 
[o'-] would give something like "nightway, a road in darkness". Not 
very satisfying.
Molina himself, however, gives us a lead in compositions given with 
[tla-piya] "having, guarding"
/yohuallapiyaliztli/ "ronda, el acto de rondar"
/yohuallapiya, ni/ "rondar, rondar de noche"

For certain reasons the concepts of night and circle seem to be connected.
And there is a similar lexical entry: /yahualli/ for "caracol de 
escalera" and "assentadero de olla o de cosa semejante"  Hence: 
/yahualtic/ "cerco o cosa redonda como luna, circulo redondo, redondo 
como mesa redonda" and related forms.
Could /oyohualli/ then be derived from [o'-] and [yawal-li]?

Now, it is methodologically not very sound to insinuate a misspelling 
in the (quite few) sources. But modern dialects indicate that it may 
not be a matter of "incorrectness" or "misspelling" because short [a] 
can indeed experience a raising to [o] in the vicinity of [w].
In local Nahuatl variants of Central Guerrero you hear  [yowaltik] for 
"circular, spherical" alongside  [yawaltik].
In the Huasteca veracruzana this latter form is the rule (cf. 
Hern?ndez 2007: "Totlajtolpialis. Dicc. nahuatl-castellano"), here you 
have
/youali/ "noche"
but
/youaltik/ "redondo, esf?rico"

So my *guess* is [o'-yawal-li] "circular road".

Seler introduced the term "oyohualli" based on his palaeographic 
reading of Sahag?n. Did other editors of Sahag?n read the word with 
the same spelling?

Ma ninos?wi,
Henry



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Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
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From yaocihua at gmail.com  Mon Oct 11 18:15:31 2010
From: yaocihua at gmail.com (Carmen Herrera)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 13:15:31 -0500
Subject: oyoualli
In-Reply-To: <4CB34E49.4020306@em.uni-frankfurt.de>
Message-ID: <MON.11.OCT.2010.131531.0500.YAOCIHUA@GMAIL.COM>

En Sahag?n aparece el verbo y el sustantivo:
" toy?huaz titzahtziz ", tu hurleras, tu criera. Sah6,70 (toiooaz).
" inin coyolli mihto?ya oyohualli ", on appelait ces clochettes 'oyohualli'
- these little bells were called oyohualli. Sah3,3.
Sacado del diccionario de Alexis Wimmer



2010/10/11 Henry Kammler <h.kammler at em.uni-frankfurt.de>

> Seler in the analytical wordlist to his extracts from Sahag?n ("Einige
> Kapitel aus dem Geschichtswerk des Fray B. de Sahag?n", 1927) gives
> the following related forms:
>
> oyo-a, oyo-ua "schreien" [scream]
> oyo-ualli "Geschrei" [screaming]
> oyouh-ti-nemi "er schreit andauernd" [he screams all the time]
>
> The semantic relation to the pectoral is obscure (or very far-flung at
> best if you consider metaphorical likenness of spiral form, whirling
> wind and the air set into motion by screaming, cf. the Aztec/Mixtec
> "speaking" glyph).
>
> I don' have Simeon at hand, but [oyowalli] is not in Molina.
>
> As is evident, phonemically many versions are thinkable. I'd
> experiment with a composition based on [o'-] < [o'tli] "path, road".
>
> In Molina we have /yohualli/ for "noche" and many related forms
> referring to nocturnal activities and darkness. A composition with
> [o'-] would give something like "nightway, a road in darkness". Not
> very satisfying.
> Molina himself, however, gives us a lead in compositions given with
> [tla-piya] "having, guarding"
> /yohuallapiyaliztli/ "ronda, el acto de rondar"
> /yohuallapiya, ni/ "rondar, rondar de noche"
>
> For certain reasons the concepts of night and circle seem to be connected.
> And there is a similar lexical entry: /yahualli/ for "caracol de
> escalera" and "assentadero de olla o de cosa semejante"  Hence:
> /yahualtic/ "cerco o cosa redonda como luna, circulo redondo, redondo
> como mesa redonda" and related forms.
> Could /oyohualli/ then be derived from [o'-] and [yawal-li]?
>
> Now, it is methodologically not very sound to insinuate a misspelling
> in the (quite few) sources. But modern dialects indicate that it may
> not be a matter of "incorrectness" or "misspelling" because short [a]
> can indeed experience a raising to [o] in the vicinity of [w].
> In local Nahuatl variants of Central Guerrero you hear  [yowaltik] for
> "circular, spherical" alongside  [yawaltik].
> In the Huasteca veracruzana this latter form is the rule (cf.
> Hern?ndez 2007: "Totlajtolpialis. Dicc. nahuatl-castellano"), here you
> have
> /youali/ "noche"
> but
> /youaltik/ "redondo, esf?rico"
>
> So my *guess* is [o'-yawal-li] "circular road".
>
> Seler introduced the term "oyohualli" based on his palaeographic
> reading of Sahag?n. Did other editors of Sahag?n read the word with
> the same spelling?
>
> Ma ninos?wi,
> Henry
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>
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From schwallr at potsdam.edu  Mon Oct 11 18:06:46 2010
From: schwallr at potsdam.edu (John F. Schwaller)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 14:06:46 -0400
Subject: Scrambled messages
Message-ID: <MON.11.OCT.2010.140646.0400.SCHWALLR@POTSDAM.EDU>

  Henry Kammler wrote:
> I try again, using Windows ISO-8859-1 settings.
>
> [The Listserv scrambles UNICODE, feels like 1993...]
> [Workaround: If you click on "show message source" in your mailprogram
> you can see the raw text of  a "scrambled" message, and it shows
> correctly.]

You can also go to the Nahuatl archives and find the post revealed unscrambled:

http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/nahuat-l.html

-- 
*****************************
John F. Schwaller
President
SUNY - Potsdam
44 Pierrepont Ave.
Potsdam, NY  13676
Tel. 315-267-2100
FAX 315-267-2496

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From mmccaffe at indiana.edu  Mon Oct 11 18:56:04 2010
From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 14:56:04 -0400
Subject: oyoualli
In-Reply-To: <000901cb695a$8d44caa0$a7ce5fe0$@net.mx>
Message-ID: <MON.11.OCT.2010.145604.0400.MMCCAFFE@INDIANA.EDU>

David's comment seems to be correct. "Oyoualli" appears to be a term 
whose application to these shell ornaments Seler coined.

http://www.loc.gov/loc/lcib/0906/toltecs.html

My memory tells me it originally means "rattle". Leon-Portilla 
mentioned it, I'm pretty sure, in the Handbook of Middle American 
Indians. But then I know he translates it as "bells" in _Native 
Meso-American Spirituality in his study of a song about the birth of 
Huitzilopochtli.

Michael



Quoting David Wright <dcwright at prodigy.net.mx>:

> Buenos d?as, Peter.
>
> The use of "oyoualli" (*oyohualli* /oyowalli/) to refer to a pectoral
> ornament can be traced back to Seler, who Mesoamericanists have often used
> as a stepping-stone into iconography. In his Collected works (II, 93) he
> describes a relief on a rock near Huaxtepec as representing "the dance god
> with coyote ears on his temples and the *oyoualli* breast ornament" (the
> latter element is not clearly represented in the drawing). In another
> article (IV, 146) he relates how dead warriors as Mimixcoa greet the rising
> Sun "beating upon their shields and rattling their *oyoualli* ornaments in
> its direction". He cites Sahag?n, book 3, appendix, chapter 3. I checked
> this source and didn?t find the word *oyohualli.* He must have gotten it
> somewhere, but he doesn't give us any clues to follow.
>
> John Bierhorst, in his concordance to the *Cantares mexicanos*, has an entry
> for the word *oyohualli,* which he translated as "leg bells (worn by
> warriors)" and "the sound of screaming." He provides several references to
> this word and its variants in the *Cantares mexicanos* manuscript and in
> other sources, notably the *Florentine codex,* that you can use to follow up
> on the word and see it in different contexts. Bierhorst's book is available
> online.
>
> I could not find anything about the ornament you describe in Lourdes Su?rez
> Diez's book "Conchas y caracoles," which is the first place I look for
> information on Mesoamerican shell ornaments.
>
> Saludos desde Guanajuato,
>
> David Wright
>
> References
>
> Bierhorst, John, A Nahuatl-English dictionary and concordance to the
> Cantares mexicanos, with an analytic transcription and grammatical notes,
> Stanford, Stanford University Press, 1985.
>
> Bierhorst, John, ?A Nahuatl-English dictionary and concordance to the
> Cantares mexicanos, with an analytic transcription and grammatical notes,?
> facsimile of the 1985 ed., in *Ballads of the lords of New Spain,* digital
> ed., John Bierhorst, editor and translator, Austin, University of Texas
> Press, 2009 (http://utdi.org/book/pdf/dictionary.pdf; access: January 7,
> 2010).
>
> Sahag?n, Bernardino de, *Florentine codex, general history of the things of
> New Spain,* 1st. ed./2nd. ed./reprint, 13 vols., Arthur J. O. Anderson and
> Charles E. Dibble, editors and translators, Santa Fe/Salt Lake City, The
> School of American Research/The University of Utah, 1974-1982.
>
> Seler, Eduard Georg, *Collected works in Mesoamerican linguistics and
> archaeology, English translations of German papers from Gesammelte
> abhandlungen zur amerikanischen sprach- und alterthumskunde,* 2nd. ed., 6
> vols., Charles P. Bowditch, translation supervisor; Frank E. Comparato, J.
> Eric S. Thompson, and Francis B. Richardson, editors, Lancaster,
> Labyrinthos, 1990-1998.
>
> Su?rez Diez, Lourdes, *Conchas y caracoles, ese universo maravilloso,* 2nd.
> ed., Mexico, Instituto Nacional de Antropolog?a e Historia, 2007.
>
> -----Mensaje original-----
> De: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org [mailto:nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org]
> En nombre de Peter Keeler
> Enviado el: domingo, 10 de octubre de 2010 12:28
> Para: Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> Asunto: [Nahuat-l] oyoualli
>
> Greetings, fellow Mesoamericanists -
>
> Here is a question from a lurking Mayanist:
>
> what can you tell me about the word oyoualli?
>
> I was surprised not to find it in the usual dictionaries,  nor, to my eye,
> any related word, or other spelling.
>
> Oyoualli is the term often used by archaeologists and art historians of
> pre-Columbian central Mexican cultures for a  cut-shell pectoral pendant.
> The pendant is a cross-section cut from the giant Mexican limpet, patella
> mexicana, oval in shape, with a hole in the middle.  Allegedly, for the
> Mexica it had connotations of female genitalia.
>
> thanks in advance for your comments,
>
> Peter Keeler
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>




_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From cindy at grito-poetry.com  Mon Oct 11 19:47:40 2010
From: cindy at grito-poetry.com (Cindy Williams Gutierrez)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 12:47:40 -0700
Subject: Translation Assistance for Nahua-inspired Lullaby
In-Reply-To: <4CB35236.2050103@potsdam.edu>
Message-ID: <MON.11.OCT.2010.124740.0700.CINDY@GRITOPOETRY.COM>

 

Dear Nahuatl Enthusiasts:

 

Can someone kindly help with a translation of the following lines (or
point me to a resource for translation):

 

*	"Sleep, small one"
*	"Let me be the cottonwood, the juniper"

 

I'm working on a Nahua-inspired lullaby poem.

 

Thank you kindly,

Cindy WG

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From mmccaffe at indiana.edu  Mon Oct 11 22:34:23 2010
From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 18:34:23 -0400
Subject: Translation Assistance for Nahua-inspired Lullaby
In-Reply-To: <000401cb697d$2a2705a0$6501a8c0@HPPavilion>
Message-ID: <MON.11.OCT.2010.183423.0400.MMCCAFFE@INDIANA.EDU>

Quoting Cindy Williams Gutierrez <cindy at grito-poetry.com>:

>
>
> Dear Nahuatl Enthusiasts:
>
>
>
> Can someone kindly help with a translation of the following lines (or
> point me to a resource for translation):
>
>
>
> *	"Sleep, small one"
> *	"Let me be the cottonwood, the juniper"


I'm a sucker, perhaps a buffalo fish, so I'll take the bait.

>


"Xicochi, conetzin,
Xinechchihuacan in pochotl, in X..."


X means I don't have "juniper" in my Nahuatl vocabulary, or so I think. 
I have it in Navajo, French, and Miami-Illinois, but not in Nahuatl.

Could I interest you in fir, pine, or cypress?

oyametl 'fir', ocotl 'pine', ahuehuetl 'cypress'

:-)

Hopefully, someone else can supply the juniper.

Michael


>
>
> I'm working on a Nahua-inspired lullaby poem.
>
>
>
> Thank you kindly,
>
> Cindy WG
>
>



_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From idiez at me.com  Tue Oct 12 03:47:42 2010
From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 22:47:42 -0500
Subject: Translation Assistance for Nahua-inspired Lullaby
In-Reply-To: <20101011183423.t57mz3as7kcswgwg@webmail.iu.edu>
Message-ID: <MON.11.OCT.2010.224742.0500.IDIEZ@ME.COM>

Listeros,
	I don't know how to say juniper, and there is a town in Veracruz called Ichcacuatitlan, so in Modern Huastecan Nahuatl....
Xicochi nopilconeuh, 
Ma nimocuapa ichcacuahuitl...
John

On Oct 11, 2010, at 5:34 PM, Michael McCafferty wrote:

> Quoting Cindy Williams Gutierrez <cindy at grito-poetry.com>:
> 
>> 
>> 
>> Dear Nahuatl Enthusiasts:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Can someone kindly help with a translation of the following lines (or
>> point me to a resource for translation):
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> *	"Sleep, small one"
>> *	"Let me be the cottonwood, the juniper"
> 
> 
> I'm a sucker, perhaps a buffalo fish, so I'll take the bait.
> 
>> 
> 
> 
> "Xicochi, conetzin,
> Xinechchihuacan in pochotl, in X..."
> 
> 
> X means I don't have "juniper" in my Nahuatl vocabulary, or so I think. 
> I have it in Navajo, French, and Miami-Illinois, but not in Nahuatl.
> 
> Could I interest you in fir, pine, or cypress?
> 
> oyametl 'fir', ocotl 'pine', ahuehuetl 'cypress'
> 
> :-)
> 
> Hopefully, someone else can supply the juniper.
> 
> Michael
> 
> 
>> 
>> 
>> I'm working on a Nahua-inspired lullaby poem.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Thank you kindly,
>> 
>> Cindy WG
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl

_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
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http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From campbel at indiana.edu  Tue Oct 12 04:18:38 2010
From: campbel at indiana.edu (Campbell, R. Joe)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 00:18:38 -0400
Subject: oyoualli
In-Reply-To: <000901cb695a$8d44caa0$a7ce5fe0$@net.mx>
Message-ID: <TUE.12.OCT.2010.001838.0400.CAMPBEL@INDIANA.EDU>

David, Henry, Carmen, and Michael,

   I have appreciated your comments and I am sure that I will benefit 
from them.

Here are some locations for "oyohualli" in the Florentine.

Joe


coyoalle**

1. yehhua *coyoalle*..
      It is lord of the night's half-way point (b.2 f.14 p.238).

oyoalle**

2. oc *oyoalle*.
      he who still has the bells (b.2 f.14 p.231).

oyoalli**

3. auh in oittoc cenca tlacahuacac, iuhquin *oyoalli* ommoma..
      and when it was seen, there was much shouting; like [the
     rattle of] shells it spread about. (b.8 f.1 p.18).

oyohuale**

4. tzitzile, *oyohuale*,.
      he had bells and shells. (b.1 f.2 p.44).

oyohualle**

5. tzitzile, *oyohualle*..
      he wore bells, he wore shells. (b.1 f.1 p.2).

oyohualli**

6. mochi teocuitlatl in coyolli, mitoa *oyohualli*:.
      all gold were the bells, called oyoalli. (b.2 f.3 p.69).

7. *oyohualli* contlalitiuh,.
      he went fastening [golden] bells [to his legs]. (b.2 f.3
     p.76).

8. inin coyolli mitoaya *oyohualli*,.
      these little bells were called oyoualli. (b.3 f.1 p.3).

9. tzatzihua: *oyohualli* moteca,.
      here was shouting everywhere. (b.7 f.1 p.2).

10. iuhquin *oyohualli* ommoman..
      it was as if [the din of] shell rattles was overspread.
     (b.12 f.1 p.2).


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From campbel at indiana.edu  Tue Oct 12 05:10:23 2010
From: campbel at indiana.edu (Campbell, R. Joe)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 01:10:23 -0400
Subject: Translation Assistance for Nahua-inspired Lullaby
In-Reply-To: <20101011183423.t57mz3as7kcswgwg@webmail.iu.edu>
Message-ID: <TUE.12.OCT.2010.011023.0400.CAMPBEL@INDIANA.EDU>

Cindy,

   Michael has already offered the answer with his "pochotl" and "ahuehuetl"
(note lack of vowel length).

   Dibble and Anderson did not include "juniper" as a translation for 
"ahuehuetl" anywhere in the Florentine Codex, but "pochotl" and 
"ahuehuetl" have a high rate of co-occurrence, mainly due to their 
partnership in a "difrasismo", with the meaning of 'refuge'.

   Louise C. Schoenhaus, in her _A Spanish-English Glossary of Mexican 
Flora and Fauna_ (published by the Summer Institute of Linguistics), 
says:

   juniper (Juniperus spp., e.g., J. monticola)  cedro blanco, cedro,
   cipre's, enhebro, junipero, ta'scate, tlaxcal (page 185)

...so since "ahuehuetl" is a cypress (as Michael said), the circle is 
closed... or is it a triangle?

Iztayomeh,

Joe

Quoting Michael McCafferty <mmccaffe at indiana.edu>:

> Quoting Cindy Williams Gutierrez <cindy at grito-poetry.com>:
>
>>
>>
>> Dear Nahuatl Enthusiasts:
>>
>>
>>
>> Can someone kindly help with a translation of the following lines (or
>> point me to a resource for translation):
>>
>>
>>
>> *	"Sleep, small one"
>> *	"Let me be the cottonwood, the juniper"
>
>
> I'm a sucker, perhaps a buffalo fish, so I'll take the bait.
>
>>
>
>
> "Xicochi, conetzin,
> Xinechchihuacan in pochotl, in X..."
>
>
> X means I don't have "juniper" in my Nahuatl vocabulary, or so I think.
> I have it in Navajo, French, and Miami-Illinois, but not in Nahuatl.
>
> Could I interest you in fir, pine, or cypress?
>
> oyametl 'fir', ocotl 'pine', ahuehuetl 'cypress'
>
> :-)
>
> Hopefully, someone else can supply the juniper.
>
> Michael
>
>
>>
>>
>> I'm working on a Nahua-inspired lullaby poem.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you kindly,
>>
>> Cindy WG
>>
>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>



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From idiez at me.com  Tue Oct 12 10:54:31 2010
From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 05:54:31 -0500
Subject: Translation Assistance for Nahua-inspired Lullaby
In-Reply-To: <20101012011023.uz3z75b1twkgco08@webmail.iu.edu>
Message-ID: <TUE.12.OCT.2010.055431.0500.IDIEZ@ME.COM>

In Modern Huastecan Nahuatl, cedar is tiocuahuitl (teo-tl, cuahuitl).
John

On Oct 12, 2010, at 12:10 AM, Campbell, R. Joe wrote:

> Cindy,
> 
>   Michael has already offered the answer with his "pochotl" and "ahuehuetl"
> (note lack of vowel length).
> 
>   Dibble and Anderson did not include "juniper" as a translation for 
> "ahuehuetl" anywhere in the Florentine Codex, but "pochotl" and 
> "ahuehuetl" have a high rate of co-occurrence, mainly due to their 
> partnership in a "difrasismo", with the meaning of 'refuge'.
> 
>   Louise C. Schoenhaus, in her _A Spanish-English Glossary of Mexican 
> Flora and Fauna_ (published by the Summer Institute of Linguistics), 
> says:
> 
>   juniper (Juniperus spp., e.g., J. monticola)  cedro blanco, cedro,
>   cipre's, enhebro, junipero, ta'scate, tlaxcal (page 185)
> 
> ...so since "ahuehuetl" is a cypress (as Michael said), the circle is 
> closed... or is it a triangle?
> 
> Iztayomeh,
> 
> Joe
> 
> Quoting Michael McCafferty <mmccaffe at indiana.edu>:
> 
>> Quoting Cindy Williams Gutierrez <cindy at grito-poetry.com>:
>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Dear Nahuatl Enthusiasts:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Can someone kindly help with a translation of the following lines (or
>>> point me to a resource for translation):
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> *	"Sleep, small one"
>>> *	"Let me be the cottonwood, the juniper"
>> 
>> 
>> I'm a sucker, perhaps a buffalo fish, so I'll take the bait.
>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> "Xicochi, conetzin,
>> Xinechchihuacan in pochotl, in X..."
>> 
>> 
>> X means I don't have "juniper" in my Nahuatl vocabulary, or so I think.
>> I have it in Navajo, French, and Miami-Illinois, but not in Nahuatl.
>> 
>> Could I interest you in fir, pine, or cypress?
>> 
>> oyametl 'fir', ocotl 'pine', ahuehuetl 'cypress'
>> 
>> :-)
>> 
>> Hopefully, someone else can supply the juniper.
>> 
>> Michael
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I'm working on a Nahua-inspired lullaby poem.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Thank you kindly,
>>> 
>>> Cindy WG
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nahuatl mailing list
>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl

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From mmccaffe at indiana.edu  Tue Oct 12 11:39:03 2010
From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 07:39:03 -0400
Subject: Translation Assistance for Nahua-inspired Lullaby
In-Reply-To: <20101012011023.uz3z75b1twkgco08@webmail.iu.edu>
Message-ID: <TUE.12.OCT.2010.073903.0400.MMCCAFFE@INDIANA.EDU>

Quoting "Campbell,  R. Joe" <campbel at indiana.edu>:

> Cindy,
>
>   Michael has already offered the answer with his "pochotl" and "ahuehuetl"
> (note lack of vowel length).

Quematzin. Was lazy about providing vowel length for this kind of enterprise.
:-)


But for interested listeros:

/po:cho:tl/

I believe Kartunnen's dictionary has this here term.

These tree terms are in the Florentine, with no vowel length indicated. 
I'd guess 'ahuehuetl' would be /a:we:we:tl/



>
>   Dibble and Anderson did not include "juniper" as a translation for
> "ahuehuetl" anywhere in the Florentine Codex, but "pochotl" and
> "ahuehuetl" have a high rate of co-occurrence, mainly due to their
> partnership in a "difrasismo", with the meaning of 'refuge'.

This is nice, Cindy, in that your lullaby can hook up with an ancient 
idea that relates to it.

If you wanted to make the song sound even more ancient you could change 
the xi- to xa-.

;-)




>
>   Louise C. Schoenhaus, in her _A Spanish-English Glossary of Mexican
> Flora and Fauna_ (published by the Summer Institute of Linguistics),
> says:
>
>   juniper (Juniperus spp., e.g., J. monticola)  cedro blanco, cedro,
>   cipre's, enhebro, junipero, ta'scate, tlaxcal (page 185)


This "tlaxcal" is curious


>
> ...so since "ahuehuetl" is a cypress (as Michael said), the circle is
> closed... or is it a triangle?

quadrahedron?


Michael



>
> Iztayomeh,
>
> Joe
>
> Quoting Michael McCafferty <mmccaffe at indiana.edu>:
>
>> Quoting Cindy Williams Gutierrez <cindy at grito-poetry.com>:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dear Nahuatl Enthusiasts:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Can someone kindly help with a translation of the following lines (or
>>> point me to a resource for translation):
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *	"Sleep, small one"
>>> *	"Let me be the cottonwood, the juniper"
>>
>>
>> I'm a sucker, perhaps a buffalo fish, so I'll take the bait.
>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> "Xicochi, conetzin,
>> Xinechchihuacan in pochotl, in X..."
>>
>>
>> X means I don't have "juniper" in my Nahuatl vocabulary, or so I think.
>> I have it in Navajo, French, and Miami-Illinois, but not in Nahuatl.
>>
>> Could I interest you in fir, pine, or cypress?
>>
>> oyametl 'fir', ocotl 'pine', ahuehuetl 'cypress'
>>
>> :-)
>>
>> Hopefully, someone else can supply the juniper.
>>
>> Michael
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm working on a Nahua-inspired lullaby poem.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thank you kindly,
>>>
>>> Cindy WG
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nahuatl mailing list
>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>>
>
>
>
>



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From mmccaffe at indiana.edu  Tue Oct 12 11:40:13 2010
From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 07:40:13 -0400
Subject: Translation Assistance for Nahua-inspired Lullaby
In-Reply-To: <2412A014-FEAC-4CAE-96AC-3C9BF4690CC3@me.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.12.OCT.2010.074013.0400.MMCCAFFE@INDIANA.EDU>

Quoting John Sullivan <idiez at me.com>:

> In Modern Huastecan Nahuatl, cedar is tiocuahuitl (teo-tl, cuahuitl).
> John

Is it used in religious ceremonies?

Thanks,

Michael


>
> On Oct 12, 2010, at 12:10 AM, Campbell, R. Joe wrote:
>
>> Cindy,
>>
>>   Michael has already offered the answer with his "pochotl" and "ahuehuetl"
>> (note lack of vowel length).
>>
>>   Dibble and Anderson did not include "juniper" as a translation for
>> "ahuehuetl" anywhere in the Florentine Codex, but "pochotl" and
>> "ahuehuetl" have a high rate of co-occurrence, mainly due to their
>> partnership in a "difrasismo", with the meaning of 'refuge'.
>>
>>   Louise C. Schoenhaus, in her _A Spanish-English Glossary of Mexican
>> Flora and Fauna_ (published by the Summer Institute of Linguistics),
>> says:
>>
>>   juniper (Juniperus spp., e.g., J. monticola)  cedro blanco, cedro,
>>   cipre's, enhebro, junipero, ta'scate, tlaxcal (page 185)
>>
>> ...so since "ahuehuetl" is a cypress (as Michael said), the circle is
>> closed... or is it a triangle?
>>
>> Iztayomeh,
>>
>> Joe
>>
>> Quoting Michael McCafferty <mmccaffe at indiana.edu>:
>>
>>> Quoting Cindy Williams Gutierrez <cindy at grito-poetry.com>:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dear Nahuatl Enthusiasts:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Can someone kindly help with a translation of the following lines (or
>>>> point me to a resource for translation):
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *	"Sleep, small one"
>>>> *	"Let me be the cottonwood, the juniper"
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm a sucker, perhaps a buffalo fish, so I'll take the bait.
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Xicochi, conetzin,
>>> Xinechchihuacan in pochotl, in X..."
>>>
>>>
>>> X means I don't have "juniper" in my Nahuatl vocabulary, or so I think.
>>> I have it in Navajo, French, and Miami-Illinois, but not in Nahuatl.
>>>
>>> Could I interest you in fir, pine, or cypress?
>>>
>>> oyametl 'fir', ocotl 'pine', ahuehuetl 'cypress'
>>>
>>> :-)
>>>
>>> Hopefully, someone else can supply the juniper.
>>>
>>> Michael
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'm working on a Nahua-inspired lullaby poem.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thank you kindly,
>>>>
>>>> Cindy WG
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nahuatl mailing list
>>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nahuatl mailing list
>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>



_______________________________________________
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From campbel at indiana.edu  Tue Oct 12 14:52:34 2010
From: campbel at indiana.edu (Campbell, R. Joe)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 10:52:34 -0400
Subject: Translation Assistance for Nahua-inspired Lullaby
In-Reply-To: <20101012073903.o7fm6ylbwc848cs8@webmail.iu.edu>
Message-ID: <TUE.12.OCT.2010.105234.0400.CAMPBEL@INDIANA.EDU>

Quoting Michael McCafferty <mmccaffe at indiana.edu>:

> Quoting "Campbell,  R. Joe" <campbel at indiana.edu>:
>
>> Cindy,
>>
>>   Michael has already offered the answer with his "pochotl" and "ahuehuetl"
>> (note lack of vowel length).
>
> Quematzin. Was lazy about providing vowel length for this kind of enterprise.
> :-)
>
>
When I pointed out the lack of vowel length, it did not occur to me 
that I seemed to onicmahpilhuih Michael as if he were tlahtlacoani... I 
merely meant to "point out" my own decision not to specify vowel length 
(as is my wont).

Further, I mis-spelled the name of Louise C. Schoenhals.  I hope I 
didn't cause anyone to spin their wheels in searching for her book.

> 8-(

Joe

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From idiez at me.com  Wed Oct 13 11:39:03 2010
From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 06:39:03 -0500
Subject: piltlahcuiloltzin
Message-ID: <WED.13.OCT.2010.063903.0500.IDIEZ@ME.COM>

Listeros,
	We got through a round of revisions of the letter definitions, so I'm going to start posting them again. And thank you very much for your comments.
John

P. piltlahcuiloltzin. Quimanextia tentlatzacuilcayotl tlen caquizti quemman motzacua tocopac,  huan monamiqui totenxipal huan quitzacua ihyotl; teipan tlamahcauhtehua nochi huan quiztihuetzi ihyotl tlatlahco tocamac.

P. letter.  It represents the consonant that is heard when the velum closes, and the lips touch and stop the airflow; then they separate completely and breath exits suddenly through the middle of the mouth.
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From schwallr at potsdam.edu  Wed Oct 13 15:01:36 2010
From: schwallr at potsdam.edu (John F. Schwaller)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 11:01:36 -0400
Subject: Foundation Course
Message-ID: <WED.13.OCT.2010.110136.0400.SCHWALLR@POTSDAM.EDU>


I have just had new copies of Campbell and Karttunen's "Foundation Course in 
Nahuatl" printed and the two-volume set is available.  I am pleased that the 
printing costs have remained stable so that the cost for distribution in the 
U.S. remains $40.  Thanks to new rates for Priority International mail the cost 
of sending the books to Europe has come down dramatically.  As a result the cost 
of the two volumes for European delivery is $55.

For information about ordering see:

http://www2.potsdam.edu/schwaljf/Nahuatl/hotlinks.htm


-- 
*****************************
John F. Schwaller
President
SUNY - Potsdam
44 Pierrepont Ave.
Potsdam, NY  13676
Tel. 315-267-2100
FAX 315-267-2496

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From idiez at me.com  Wed Oct 13 23:39:56 2010
From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 18:39:56 -0500
Subject: Translation Assistance for Nahua-inspired Lullaby
In-Reply-To: <20101012074013.by4avknmqass8ckc@webmail.iu.edu>
Message-ID: <WED.13.OCT.2010.183956.0500.IDIEZ@ME.COM>

Michael,
	Tiocuahuitl is used for making huapalli, "boards", and the bark is used for incense in ceremonies, not as frequently though, as copalli.
John

On Oct 12, 2010, at 6:40 AM, Michael McCafferty wrote:

> Quoting John Sullivan <idiez at me.com>:
> 
>> In Modern Huastecan Nahuatl, cedar is tiocuahuitl (teo-tl, cuahuitl).
>> John
> 
> Is it used in religious ceremonies?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Michael
> 
> 
>> 
>> On Oct 12, 2010, at 12:10 AM, Campbell, R. Joe wrote:
>> 
>>> Cindy,
>>> 
>>>  Michael has already offered the answer with his "pochotl" and "ahuehuetl"
>>> (note lack of vowel length).
>>> 
>>>  Dibble and Anderson did not include "juniper" as a translation for
>>> "ahuehuetl" anywhere in the Florentine Codex, but "pochotl" and
>>> "ahuehuetl" have a high rate of co-occurrence, mainly due to their
>>> partnership in a "difrasismo", with the meaning of 'refuge'.
>>> 
>>>  Louise C. Schoenhaus, in her _A Spanish-English Glossary of Mexican
>>> Flora and Fauna_ (published by the Summer Institute of Linguistics),
>>> says:
>>> 
>>>  juniper (Juniperus spp., e.g., J. monticola)  cedro blanco, cedro,
>>>  cipre's, enhebro, junipero, ta'scate, tlaxcal (page 185)
>>> 
>>> ...so since "ahuehuetl" is a cypress (as Michael said), the circle is
>>> closed... or is it a triangle?
>>> 
>>> Iztayomeh,
>>> 
>>> Joe
>>> 
>>> Quoting Michael McCafferty <mmccaffe at indiana.edu>:
>>> 
>>>> Quoting Cindy Williams Gutierrez <cindy at grito-poetry.com>:
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Dear Nahuatl Enthusiasts:
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Can someone kindly help with a translation of the following lines (or
>>>>> point me to a resource for translation):
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> *	"Sleep, small one"
>>>>> *	"Let me be the cottonwood, the juniper"
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> I'm a sucker, perhaps a buffalo fish, so I'll take the bait.
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> "Xicochi, conetzin,
>>>> Xinechchihuacan in pochotl, in X..."
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> X means I don't have "juniper" in my Nahuatl vocabulary, or so I think.
>>>> I have it in Navajo, French, and Miami-Illinois, but not in Nahuatl.
>>>> 
>>>> Could I interest you in fir, pine, or cypress?
>>>> 
>>>> oyametl 'fir', ocotl 'pine', ahuehuetl 'cypress'
>>>> 
>>>> :-)
>>>> 
>>>> Hopefully, someone else can supply the juniper.
>>>> 
>>>> Michael
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> I'm working on a Nahua-inspired lullaby poem.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thank you kindly,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Cindy WG
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Nahuatl mailing list
>>>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>>>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nahuatl mailing list
>>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nahuatl mailing list
>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl

_______________________________________________
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From mmccaffe at indiana.edu  Thu Oct 14 00:20:21 2010
From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 20:20:21 -0400
Subject: Translation Assistance for Nahua-inspired Lullaby
In-Reply-To: <F0574715-35E0-4C7A-9813-39C6F1B5657F@me.com>
Message-ID: <WED.13.OCT.2010.202021.0400.MMCCAFFE@INDIANA.EDU>

Quoting John Sullivan <idiez at me.com>:

> Michael,
> 	Tiocuahuitl is used for making huapalli, "boards", and the bark is
> used for incense in ceremonies, not as frequently though, as copalli.
> John

Thanks, John.

Cedar, as you know, is commonly used north of the border by various 
American Indian groups in the West as an incense. "Tiocuahuitl" is a 
curious name seemingly in that connection.

Michael

>
> On Oct 12, 2010, at 6:40 AM, Michael McCafferty wrote:
>
>> Quoting John Sullivan <idiez at me.com>:
>>
>>> In Modern Huastecan Nahuatl, cedar is tiocuahuitl (teo-tl, cuahuitl).
>>> John
>>
>> Is it used in religious ceremonies?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Michael
>>
>>
>>>
>>> On Oct 12, 2010, at 12:10 AM, Campbell, R. Joe wrote:
>>>
>>>> Cindy,
>>>>
>>>>  Michael has already offered the answer with his "pochotl" and "ahuehuetl"
>>>> (note lack of vowel length).
>>>>
>>>>  Dibble and Anderson did not include "juniper" as a translation for
>>>> "ahuehuetl" anywhere in the Florentine Codex, but "pochotl" and
>>>> "ahuehuetl" have a high rate of co-occurrence, mainly due to their
>>>> partnership in a "difrasismo", with the meaning of 'refuge'.
>>>>
>>>>  Louise C. Schoenhaus, in her _A Spanish-English Glossary of Mexican
>>>> Flora and Fauna_ (published by the Summer Institute of Linguistics),
>>>> says:
>>>>
>>>>  juniper (Juniperus spp., e.g., J. monticola)  cedro blanco, cedro,
>>>>  cipre's, enhebro, junipero, ta'scate, tlaxcal (page 185)
>>>>
>>>> ...so since "ahuehuetl" is a cypress (as Michael said), the circle is
>>>> closed... or is it a triangle?
>>>>
>>>> Iztayomeh,
>>>>
>>>> Joe
>>>>
>>>> Quoting Michael McCafferty <mmccaffe at indiana.edu>:
>>>>
>>>>> Quoting Cindy Williams Gutierrez <cindy at grito-poetry.com>:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dear Nahuatl Enthusiasts:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Can someone kindly help with a translation of the following lines (or
>>>>>> point me to a resource for translation):
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *	"Sleep, small one"
>>>>>> *	"Let me be the cottonwood, the juniper"
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm a sucker, perhaps a buffalo fish, so I'll take the bait.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Xicochi, conetzin,
>>>>> Xinechchihuacan in pochotl, in X..."
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> X means I don't have "juniper" in my Nahuatl vocabulary, or so I think.
>>>>> I have it in Navajo, French, and Miami-Illinois, but not in Nahuatl.
>>>>>
>>>>> Could I interest you in fir, pine, or cypress?
>>>>>
>>>>> oyametl 'fir', ocotl 'pine', ahuehuetl 'cypress'
>>>>>
>>>>> :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> Hopefully, someone else can supply the juniper.
>>>>>
>>>>> Michael
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm working on a Nahua-inspired lullaby poem.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you kindly,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cindy WG
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Nahuatl mailing list
>>>>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>>>>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Nahuatl mailing list
>>>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>>>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nahuatl mailing list
>>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nahuatl mailing list
>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>



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From mmccaffe at indiana.edu  Fri Oct 15 00:58:39 2010
From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2010 20:58:39 -0400
Subject: Translation Assistance for Nahua-inspired Lullaby
In-Reply-To: <20101012105234.lyiqgpub0gwk04gw@webmail.iu.edu>
Message-ID: <THU.14.OCT.2010.205839.0400.MMCCAFFE@INDIANA.EDU>

Quoting "Campbell,  R. Joe" <campbel at indiana.edu>:

> Quoting Michael McCafferty <mmccaffe at indiana.edu>:
>
>> Quoting "Campbell,  R. Joe" <campbel at indiana.edu>:
>>
>>> Cindy,
>>>
>>>   Michael has already offered the answer with his "pochotl" and "ahuehuetl"
>>> (note lack of vowel length).
>>
>> Quematzin. Was lazy about providing vowel length for this kind of
>> enterprise.
>> :-)
>>
>>
> When I pointed out the lack of vowel length, it did not occur to me
> that I seemed to onicmahpilhuih Michael as if he were tlahtlacoani...
> I merely meant to "point out" my own decision not to specify vowel
> length (as is my wont).
>

Nay, Joe. In my case, it never ceases to amaze me that, while having 
cut my teeth on Algonquian, where vowel length is next to *godliness*, 
I can easily forgo *writing* it in Nahuatl.

I wanted to point out a typo in the translation for Cindy.

Xinechchihuacan should be Tinechchihuacan.


Michael



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From cuecuex at gmail.com  Wed Oct 20 04:02:10 2010
From: cuecuex at gmail.com (roberto romero)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 23:02:10 -0500
Subject: Una traducci=?iso-8859-1?Q?=F3n_de_un_top=F3nimo_?= otomi
Message-ID: <TUE.19.OCT.2010.230210.0500.CUECUEX@GMAIL.COM>

Hola
Esta consulta es del idioma otomi aparovechando que en este foro participa D
Wrigth
La pregunta es cual seria la traducci?n de Andamatzitzi o antamatzitzi y
cuales los vocablos otomis que lo forman
El t?rmino me recuerda fon?ticamente el de la denominaci?n de Quer?taro :
AndaMahey o ant?maxey.
Agradeciendo de antemano su atenci?n y respuesta.
Roberto Romero G.
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From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx  Wed Oct 20 15:57:56 2010
From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 10:57:56 -0500
Subject: Una traducci=?iso-8859-1?Q?=F3n_de_un_top=F3nimo_?= otomi
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinwi4KQwO7Jh618XgpkgaXcyKfusBura93jbAVr@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <WED.20.OCT.2010.105756.0500.DCWRIGHT@PRODIGY.NET.MX>

Estimado Roberto:

 

Apunto a continuacion el resultado de mis intentos de analizar cada uno de
los dos toponimos que mencionas, partiendo de los textos en otomi del Codice
de Huichapan, un manuscrito alfabetico y pictorico de hacia 1632.

 

************************************

Variantes del toponimo: ant?matzittzi/antamatzittzi/[borrado]amatzittzi

 

Lugares en el manuscrito donde se encuentra: ff. 1r (sin a?o; segundo
renglon); 1v (1579); 2r (1595); 4r (1629); 4v (1631); 5v (lista de
toponimos); 12v (1423); 14v (1432).

 

Vesion fonemica: ant?matsits?i (dieresis = vocal nasal; apostrofo = oclusiva
glotal)

 

Analisis morfologico: an + t? + ma + tsits?i

prefijo sustantivo singular - adjetivo: ?grande? - prefijo locativo - verbo:
?empapar?

 

Traduccion: ?el gran lugar empapado?

 

Comentarios: Ant?matsits?i es el nombre antiguo en otomi de Huichapan, como
se desprende de los contextos en los cuales aparece en el Codice de
Huichapan. Esta identificacion es confirmada en una gramatica otomi del
siglo XVI (Carceres, 1907: 106) y en el f. 16r del Codice Pedro Martin de
Toro (Martin de la Puente, c 1650-1696; 2000). El toponimo nahuatl
Hueichiapan significa ?gran lugar de humedad?.

************************************

 

************************************

Variantes del toponimo: antamax?y/[roto]nt?max?y/ant?max?y

 

Lugares en el manuscrito donde se encuentra: ff. 1r (1555, 1557); 2v (1607);
3r (1611).

 

Version fonemica: ant?max?i

 

Analisis morfologico: an + t? + ma + x?i

prefijo sustantivo singular - adjetivo: ?grande? - prefijo locativo -
sustantivo: ?pelota de caucho?

 

Traduccion: ?el gran lugar del juego de pelota?

 

Comentarios: Ant?max?i es Queretaro (Carceres, 1907: 46, 47). Los tarascos
llamaban el mismo pueblo Querehtaro, ?lugar de la cancha del juego de
pelota? (Gilberti, 1990: 49r). Los nahuas le decian Tlachco, ?en el juego de
pelota? (Urquiola, sin fecha: 101).

************************************

 

************************************

Fuentes citadas

 

Carceres, Pedro de, ?Arte de la lengua othomi?, Nicolas Leon, editor, en
Boletin del Instituto Bibliografico Mexicano, no. 6, 1907, pp. 39-155.

 

Codice de Huichapan, Biblioteca Nacional de Antropologia e Historia, Mexico,
Testimonios pictograficos, no. 35-60, c  1632.

 

Gilberti, Maturino, Vocabulario en lengua de Mechuacan, facsimil de la ed.
de 1559, Mexico, Centro de Estudios de Historia de Mexico Condumex, 1990.

 

Martin de la Puente, Francisco, Codice Pedro Martin de Toro, Archivo General
de la Nacion, Mexico, fondo Real Audiencia, serie Tierras, vol. 1783,
expediente 1, c 1650-1696, ff. 16r-24r.

 

Martin de la Puente, Francisco, ?Martin, manuscrito en otomi y espa?ol de
Francisco Martin de la Puente?, 2a. ed. digital, David Charles Wright Carr,
estudio y version paleografica, en Sup-Infor, Editions sur Supports
Informatiques (http://www.sup-infor.com; actualizaci?n: 2000; acceso: 15
jun. 2009).

 

Urquiola Permis?n, Jos? Ignacio (editor), Primeras noticias sobre la
conquista, posesion, limites y encomenderos del pueblo de Queretaro,
Queretaro, H. Ayuntamiento, Municipio de Queretaro, sin fecha.

************************************

 

Lo anterior es un extracto de mi tesis: David Charles Wright Carr, Los
otomies: cultura, lengua y escritura, 2 vols., Zamora, Doctorado en Ciencias
Sociales, El Colegio de Michoacan, 2005.

 

Espero que los apuntes anteriores te sean de utilidad.

 

Saludos desde Guanajuato,

 

David

 

De: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org [mailto:nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org]
En nombre de roberto romero
Enviado el: martes, 19 de octubre de 2010 23:02
Para: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
Asunto: [Nahuat-l] Una traducci?n de un top?nimo otomi

 

Hola 

Esta consulta es del idioma otomi aparovechando que en este foro participa D
Wrigth

La pregunta es cual seria la traducci?n de Andamatzitzi o antamatzitzi y
cuales los vocablos otomis que lo forman 

El t?rmino me recuerda fon?ticamente el de la denominaci?n de Quer?taro :
AndaMahey o ant?maxey.

Agradeciendo de antemano su atenci?n y respuesta.

Roberto Romero G.

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From cuecuex at gmail.com  Thu Oct 21 05:28:35 2010
From: cuecuex at gmail.com (roberto romero)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 00:28:35 -0500
Subject: Una traduccion de un top=?iso-8859-1?Q?=F3nimo_?= otomi 2
Message-ID: <THU.21.OCT.2010.002835.0500.CUECUEX@GMAIL.COM>

Envio este mail por segunda vez por haber recibido un mensaje de fallo  en
la direccion de nahuatl-bounces at list.famsi.org
si les llego el primero por favor  obvien este segundo
David agradezco su gentil respuesta
Me dices que etimologicamente en otomi y en nahuatl Huichapan es el gran
lugar empapado
Yo pensaba que el nombre de Huichapan tenia que ver con la semilla conocida
como Chia.
De donde Huichapan ser?a: El gran sitio de la Chia, entendiendo esto, como
el gran o el antiguo sembrado o lugar donde se siembra Chia pues esta planta
no es silvestre se cultiva
Mientras que consideraba que Chiapan hoy Chapa de Mota, otro lugar otomi
ser?a el lugar de la Chia o en sentido mas amplio, el lugar del sembrado de
Chia, siento ?ste el lugar "moderno" de donde se obtenia esta semilla en los
siglos XV y XVI .

Como sabes la Chia que tambi?n se escribe como chiyan fue una semillita
multiusos en el mundo prehisp?nico consumida de diversas formas como
alimento, usada como oleaginosa, medicinal y ahora casi est? en desuso y
reducida a planta que adorna figuritas de barro o de medias de mujer o
im?genes de cuadros y que a veces en algunos sitios acompa?a y hace mas rica
el agua de lim?n
Me sorprende que Huichapan sea llamado el gran lugar empapado.
En las veces que he ido a ese lugar del estado de Hidalgo lo recuerdo como
un sitio bastante seco y caluroso con fuentes termales en su territorio y
ruinas prehispanicas en sus alrededores estudiadas por la ENAH.
Si me hablas de Chiapas la entidad del sur de M?xico no pongo en duda su
humedad y que este empapado pero esas cualidades geogr?ficas en ?sta parte
de la ?rida regi?n norte del Valle del Mezquital situado a unos cuantos
kilometros del semidesierto queretano, cubierto tambien por la "sombra" de
la sierra gorda por ello seco , en verdad hasta me parece un toponimo lleno
de iron?a y sorna que Huichapan sea el gran lugar empapado
No dudo de tu escrupulosa traducci?n pero algo no me cuadra en el resultado
No tengo la matricula de tributos o el c?dice mendocino pero recuerdo haber
visto en ella que los otomies tributaban chia a los colhuas mexicas y creo
que a lo mejor otros que lo hacian eran los matalatzincas del valle deToluca
pero nadie mas.
Tezozomoc en su Cr?nica Mexicana narra el tributo que los vencidos otomies
daban a los colhuas mexicas y en ellos destaca a la chian o chian
En la cronica X se les llama chiapanecos a los otomis
Tezozomoc se?ala tambien el tributo del michihuatli que en la edici?n que
tengo se le traduce como amaranto ??? y como "bledo de pescado" !!??
atendiendo a la presencia de michi, que yo creo que realmente se trata de la
hueva del pescado que todavia se come en distintas regiones del pa?s o de
los huevos de mosco lagunar pues el ahautli o hueva de mosco con ese nombre
lo compraba en el mercado de Jamaica o la merced en la ciudad de M?xico para
hacer tortitas para los "romeritos" : un guisado a base de la hierba de
romero guisada con mole, nopales tortitas de ahuatli. mmm mmm Chompi chompi

Tampoco encuentro en el significado que resulta de traducir Huichapan como
gran lugar empapado ese sentido figurativo que existe en el nombre de
Quer?taro cuyo significado es el gran juego de pelota.
Como sabemos nunca existio tal juego de pelota como construcci?n humana y
producto cultural en el lugar que es ahora Queretaro ni en la cienega donde
est? ubicada la ciudad colonial ni en la ca?ada .
Le llamaban el gran juego de pelota a la estrecha ca?ada o barranca en que
asentaron chichimecas nahuas, otomis y de otras lenguas.
Las paredes de la barranca, la forma de esta mas estrecha en su base les
parec?a o les recordaba a los indios la construcci?n de un juego de pelota.
La pregunta final es como se escribia o se decia esea semilla llamada Chia
en el otomi del XVI quizas se sigue diciendo igual en la actualidad.
gracias
Roberto Romero Guti?rrez
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From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx  Thu Oct 21 16:27:24 2010
From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 11:27:24 -0500
Subject: Una traduccion de un top=?iso-8859-1?Q?=F3nimo_?= otomi (A)
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTincNa3tr2AL+1uWLOCno+Vi8c_D6NQv0EmXNt-t@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <THU.21.OCT.2010.112724.0500.DCWRIGHT@PRODIGY.NET.MX>

Muy estimado Roberto:

Tus preguntas sobre la etimologia del toponimo Huichapan son buenas. Las
mismas pasaron por mi mente. Descarte la hipotesis de las semillas de chia
despues de pasar unos dias hurgando en las fuentes que tenia a la mano, en
busca de pistas que me dieran alguna luz. La huella de este proceso esta en
una nota a pie de pagina en un apendice de la misma tesis que estaba citando
en mi mensaje de ayer (vease abajo, al final del apartado "Referencias"). Se
reproduce esta nota al final del presente mensaje. La tome de la version
revisada de mi tesis, la cual tiene algunas adiciones y correcciones
respecto a la version de 2005.

Aparte de suprimir los acentos ortograficos en el texto en castellano, tuve
que quitar los subrayados en algunas voces otomies, debido a las
limitaciones tecnicas de este medio de comunicacion.

Solo agregare aqui que hay varias "oasis" en el Valle del Mezquital y zonas
colindantes, donde el agua mana (o erupta) de la madre tierra. Por razones
evidentes suelen coincidir con los asentamientos humanos, como Aculco, San
Jose Atlan, Huichapan, Tecozautla, Ixmiquilpan, Actopan, etcetera. Muchos
toponimos en esta region, en otomi y en nahuatl, se refieren directa o
indirectamente a estas humedades.

******************************************************

Ant?matsits?i, ?el gran lugar empapado?, es el nombre antiguo en otomi para
Huichapan, como se desprende de los contextos en los cuales aparece en el
Codice de Huichapan. Esta identificacion es confirmada en una gramatica
otomi del siglo XVI (Carceres, 1907: 106) y en el f. 16r del Codice Pedro
Martin de Toro (Martin de la Puente, c 1650-1696; 2000). En el siglo XVIII
este toponimo se habia perdido, por el uso de un prestamo del castellano:
Sanchez de Baquera (1747: 86) registra la voz X?nm?tho (?San Mateo?, patron
del pueblo). Para 1826 esta palabra habia sufrido una ligera sincopa,
quedando como Xa matho (Lopez Yepes, 1826: 172). Urbano (1990: 362v) incluye
?natzhittzi? entre las traducciones otomies de la voz castellana ?regadura?.
El mismo autor (1990: 402r) hace equivalentes las palabras atocpa qualli
tlalli (en nahuatl) y matsits?i (en otomi), bajo la frase castellana ?Tierra
buena y fertil?. En un lexicon del siglo XVIII encontramos la entrada
?Tzi-tzi.................empapar? (Buelna [editor], 1893: 207). Lopes Yepes
(1826: 146) registra la palabra ?tziitzi? bajo ?Empapar?. El mismo autor
(1826: 134) traduce Chapantongo como mazitsi. El toponimo nahuatl
Hueichiapan significa ?gran lugar de humedad?. Carrasco, con base en las
traducciones que se hacen de varios toponimos en las relaciones geograficas
del siglo XVI (Chiapan, Chiauhtlan, Chiapulco y Chauatl), demuestra que
comparten el significado de ?cienaga?, ?humedad? o ?agua?, y que los signos
graficos centromexicanos para Chiapan y Teochiapan en el Codice mendocino y
el Codice telleriano-remensis expresan los mismos conceptos (Carrasco, 1996:
363, 364). Con base en estos argumentos, parece poco probable que estos
toponimos contengan el concepto de chia/chian/chiantli, ?planta con semillas
aceitosas?, como han dicho varios autores (por ejemplo
Azcue/Toussaint/Fernandez, 1940-1942: I, 335). En otro trabajo, Carrasco
(1998: 28) relaciona acertadamente el toponimo otomi Ant?matsits?i con
Hueichiapan; tambien detecta la analogia entre Matsits?i y Chiapantonco, y
la correspondencia entre Chiapan Tepeticpac (?tierra de humedad-cumbre del
cerro?) y el toponimo otomi para el mismo lugar, Any?nt?oho (?la cumbre del
cerro?). Ant?matsits?i (Huichapan) se puede traducir como ?el gran lugar
empapado?, mientras Matsits?i (Chapantongo) significa simplemente ?lugar
empapado?. Una contraposicion similar se da en los significados de los
toponimos equivalentes en nahuatl: Hueichiapan (?gran lugar de humedad?) y
Chiapantonco (?peque?o lugar de humedad?). Chiapan significa, entonces, ?en
la humedad?. Los tres pueblos, Huichapan, Chapantongo y Chapa de Mota,
tenian manantiales y tierras de regadio en el siglo XVI (Ciudad Real, 1976:
I, 138; Paso y Troncoso [editor], 1905: 59, 60). En las relaciones
geograficas de Yetecomac y Hueipochtlan, el toponimo Chiapan es traducido
?mancha de agua? (Contreras Figueroa, 1986: 133, 142). Acu?a piensa que este
pueblo es Huichapan (Acu?a [editor], 1985, 1986: III, 127 [nota 7]), en
parte por la afirmacion en la relacion de Yetecomac de que ?dista desde
pu[ebl]o, el de Chiapa[n], diez leguas hacia la parte del poniente?
(Contreras Figueroa, 1986: 134). Sin embargo Huichapan se encuentra al
Noroeste de Yetecomac, y Chapa de Mota queda al suroeste, mas o menos a la
misma distancia, restando fuerza al argumento de Acu?a. El vocabulario de
Molina no aporta informacion lexica clara para interpretar el toponimo
Chiapan, pero tiene algunas palabras que quiza esten relacionadas con dicho
toponimo: chapani, ?mojarse mucho, o caer en tierra la massa, el lodo o
cosas semejantes?; chapania, ?echar en el suelo, o por ay lodo massa o cosa
semejante?; chapanqui, ?cosa muy mojada?; chiaua, ?mancharse alguna cosa?;
chiauac, ?cosa grasienta?; chiauizatl, ?sanguaza?; chiauiztli, ?humor?
(Molina, 1571b, 19r, 19v; sobre la fonologia de estas palabras, vease
Karttunen, 1992: 46, 54). Hay signos pintados, glosados Chiapan y
Teochiapan, en el Codice mendocino (Berdan/Anawalt [editoras], 1992: 13r
[?chiapan?], 16r [?teochiapan?]) y el Codice telleriano-remensis (Qui?ones
[editora], 1995: 39v [?chiapa que es cabe jilotepec?]). La identificacion de
los asentamientos correspondientes no se puede hacer con confianza. El
segundo (Teochiapan) aparece junto a Tecozauhtla, y el tercero (Chiapan) es
de la provincia de Xilotepec, por lo que cualquiera de los dos podrian
indentificarse con Chapa de Mota, Chapantongo o Huichapan.

REFERENCIAS

Acu?a, Rene (editor)
1985, 1986 Relaciones geograficas del siglo XVI: Mexico, 3 vols., Mexico,
Instituto de Investigaciones Antropologicas, Universidad Nacional Autonoma
de Mexico.

Azcue y Mancera, Luis; Toussaint, Manuel; Fernandez, Justino (editores)
1940-1942 Catalogo de construcciones religiosas del estado de Hidalgo,
formada por la comision de inventarios de la primera zona, 1929-1932, 2
vols., Mexico, Direccion General de Bienes Nacionales, Secretaria de
Hacienda y Credito Publico.

Berdan, Frances F.; Anawalt, Patricia Rieff (editoras)
1992 The Codex Mendoza, facsimil del ms., vol. 3, Berkeley/Los
Angeles/Oxford, University of California Press.

Buelna, Eustaquio (editor)
1893 Luces del otomi o gramatica del idioma que hablan los indios otomies en
la Republica Mexicana, compuesta por un padre de la Compa?ia de Jesus,
Mexico, Imprenta del Gobierno Federal.

Carceres, Pedro de
1907 ?Arte de la lengua othomi?, Nicolas Leon, editor, en Boletin del
Instituto Bibliografico Mexicano, no. 6, pp. 39-155.

Carrasco Pizana, Pedro
1996 Estructura politico-territorial del imperio tenochca, la Triple Alianza
de Tenochtitlan, Tetzcoco y Tlacopan, Mexico, El Colegio de
Mexico/Fideicomiso Historia de las Americas/Fondo de Cultura Economica.
1998 ?Los otopames en la historia antigua de Mesoamerica?, en Estudios de
Cultura Otopame (Instituto de Investigaciones Antropologicas, Universidad
Nacional Autonoma de Mexico), no. 1, pp. 17-51.

Ciudad Real, Antonio de
1976 Tratado curioso y docto de las grandezas de la Nueva Espa?a, relacion
breve y verdadera de algunas cosas de las muchas que sucedieron al padre
Alonso Ponce en las provincias de la Nueva Espa?a siendo comisario general
de aquellas partes, 2 vols., Josefina Garcia Quintana y Victor M. Castillo
Farreras, editores, Mexico, Instituto de Investigaciones Historicas,
Universidad Nacional Autonoma de Mexico.

Contreras Figueroa, Alonso de
1986 ?Relacion de Tolnacuchtla y su partido?, en Relaciones geograficas del
siglo XVI: Mexico, vol. 3, Rene Acu?a, editor, Mexico, Instituto de
Investigaciones Antropologicas, Universidad Nacional Autonoma de Mexico, pp.
115-154.

Karttunen, Frances
1992 An analytical dictionary of Nahuatl, 2a. ed., Norman, University of
Oklahoma Press.

Lopez Yepes, Joaquin
1826 Catecismo y declaracion de la doctrina cristiana en lengua otomi, con
un vocabulario del mismo idioma, Mexico, Oficina del Ciudadano Alejandro
Valdes.

Martin de la Puente, Francisco
c 1650-1696	Codice Pedro Martin de Toro, Archivo General de la Nacion,
Mexico, fondo Real Audiencia, serie Tierras, vol. 1783, expediente 1, ff.
16r-24r.
2000 ?Martin, manuscrito en otomi y espa?ol de Francisco Martin de la
Puente?, 2a. ed. digital, David Charles Wright Carr, estudio y version
paleografica, en Sup-Infor, Editions sur Supports Informatiques
(http://www.sup-infor.com; actualizacion: 2000; acceso: 15 jun. 2009).

Molina, Alonso de
1571a Vocabulario en lengua castellana y mexicana, Mexico, Casa de Antonio
de Espinosa.
1571b Vocabulario en lengua mexicana y castellana, Mexico, Casa de Antonio
de Espinosa.

Paso y Troncoso, Francisco del (editor)
1905 Papeles de Nueva Espa?a, segunda serie, geografia y estadistica, tomo
I, suma de visitas de pueblos por orden alfabetico, manuscrito 2.800 de la
Biblioteca Nacional de Madrid, anonimo de la mitad del siglo XVI, Madrid,
Establecimiento Tip[ografico] ?Sucesores de Rivadeneyra?.

Qui?ones Keber, Eloise (editora)
1995 Codex telleriano-remensis: ritual, divination and history in a
pictorial Aztec manuscript, facsimil del ms., Austin, University of Texas
Press.

Sanchez de la Baquera, Juan
1747 Modo breve de aprender a leer, escribir, pronunciar y hablar el idioma
otomi, en el cual se contiene su ortografia, arte, y modo de conjugar, y un
confesionario con examen de conciencia, Chicago, The Newberry Library, Ayer
ms. 1650.

Urbano, Alonso
1990 Arte breve de la lengua otomi y vocabulario triling?e
espa?ol-nahuatl-otomi, facsimil del ms., Rene Acu?a, estudio, Mexico,
Instituto de Investigaciones Filologicas, Universidad Nacional Autonoma de
Mexico.

Wright Carr, David Charles
2005 Los otomies: cultura, lengua y escritura, 2 vols., tesis, Zamora,
Doctorado en Ciencias Sociales, El Colegio de Michoacan.

******************************************************

De: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org [mailto:nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org]
En nombre de roberto romero
Enviado el: jueves, 21 de octubre de 2010 00:29
Para: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
Asunto: [Nahuat-l] Una traduccion de un toponimo otomi 2

Envio este mail por segunda vez por haber recibido un mensaje de fallo ?en
la direccion de nahuatl-bounces at list.famsi.org
si les llego el primero por favor? obvien este segundo
David agradezco su gentil respuesta ?
Me dices que etimologicamente en otomi y en nahuatl Huichapan es el gran
lugar empapado?
Yo pensaba que el nombre de Huichapan tenia que ver con la semilla conocida
como Chia.
De donde Huichapan seria: El gran sitio de la Chia, entendiendo esto, como
el gran o el antiguo sembrado o lugar donde se siembra Chia pues esta planta
no es silvestre se cultiva?
Mientras que consideraba que Chiapan hoy Chapa de Mota, otro lugar otomi
seria el lugar de la Chia o en sentido mas amplio, el lugar del sembrado de
Chia, siento este el lugar "moderno" de donde se obtenia esta semilla en los
siglos XV y XVI .

Como sabes la Chia que tambien se escribe como chiyan fue una semillita
multiusos en el mundo prehispanico consumida de diversas formas como
alimento, usada como oleaginosa, medicinal y ahora casi esta en desuso y
reducida a planta que adorna figuritas de barro o de medias de mujer o
imagenes de cuadros y que a veces en algunos sitios acompa?a y hace mas rica
el agua de limon
Me sorprende que Huichapan sea llamado el gran lugar empapado.?
En las veces que he ido a ese lugar del estado de Hidalgo lo recuerdo como
un sitio bastante seco y caluroso con fuentes termales en su territorio y
ruinas prehispanicas en sus alrededores estudiadas por la ENAH.
Si me hablas de Chiapas la entidad del sur de Mexico no pongo en duda su
humedad y que este empapado pero esas cualidades geograficas en esta parte
de la arida region norte del Valle del Mezquital situado a unos cuantos
kilometros del semidesierto queretano, cubierto tambien por la "sombra" de
la sierra gorda por ello seco , en verdad hasta me parece un toponimo lleno
de ironia y sorna que Huichapan sea el gran lugar empapado?
No dudo de tu escrupulosa traduccion pero algo no me cuadra en el resultado?
No tengo la matricula de tributos o el codice mendocino pero recuerdo haber
visto en ella que los otomies tributaban chia a los colhuas mexicas y creo
que a lo mejor otros que lo hacian eran los matalatzincas del valle deToluca
pero nadie mas.?
Tezozomoc en su Cronica Mexicana narra el tributo que los vencidos otomies
daban a los colhuas mexicas y en ellos destaca a la chian o chian
En la cronica X se les llama chiapanecos a los otomis
Tezozomoc se?ala tambien el tributo del michihuatli que en la edicion que
tengo se le traduce como amaranto ??? y como "bledo de pescado" !!??
atendiendo a la presencia de michi, que yo creo que realmente se trata de la
hueva del pescado que todavia se come en distintas regiones del pais o de
los huevos de mosco lagunar pues el ahautli o hueva de mosco con ese nombre
lo compraba en el mercado de Jamaica o la merced en la ciudad de Mexico para
hacer tortitas para los "romeritos" : un guisado a base de la hierba de
romero guisada con mole, nopales tortitas de ahuatli. mmm mmm Chompi chompi
?
Tampoco encuentro en el significado que resulta de traducir Huichapan como
gran lugar empapado ese sentido figurativo que existe en el nombre de
Queretaro cuyo significado es el gran juego de pelota.?
Como sabemos nunca existio tal juego de pelota como construccion humana y
producto cultural en el lugar que es ahora Queretaro ni en la cienega donde
esta ubicada la ciudad colonial ni en la ca?ada .?
Le llamaban el gran juego de pelota a la estrecha ca?ada o barranca en que
asentaron chichimecas nahuas, otomis y de otras lenguas.?
Las paredes de la barranca, la forma de esta mas estrecha en su base les
parecia o les recordaba a los indios la construccion de un juego de pelota.
La pregunta final es como se escribia o se decia esea semilla llamada Chia
en el otomi del XVI quizas se sigue diciendo igual en la actualidad.
gracias?
Roberto Romero Gutierrez


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From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx  Thu Oct 21 16:28:02 2010
From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 11:28:02 -0500
Subject: Una traduccion de un top=?iso-8859-1?Q?=F3nimo_?= otomi (B)
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTincNa3tr2AL+1uWLOCno+Vi8c_D6NQv0EmXNt-t@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <THU.21.OCT.2010.112802.0500.DCWRIGHT@PRODIGY.NET.MX>

Roberto:

En cuanto a Queretaro, apunto otra nota a pie de pagina de un apendice de la
version revisada de mi tesis:

Hoy la palabra x?i significa ?perforar? y ?escarbar? en el otomi del
Mezquital (Hernandez/Victoria/Sinclair, 2004: 356). Urbano (1990: 193r)
registra el morfema x?i en las glosas de ?Escarvar tierra o cosa assi?,
?Escarvada tierra?, ?Escarvadura? y ?Escarvador?. Un morfema homofono, asi
como su variante fonetica ts??i (escrita ?tzh?y?) aparece en las palabras
para ?Iuego de pelota con las nalgas?, ?Iugador tal? [?a la pelota con las
nalgas?, palabras tachadas] y ?Pelota para jugar al batey? (Urbano, 1990:
247r, 248r, 330v). Ant?max?i, ?el gran lugar del juego de pelota?, es
Queretaro (Carceres, 1907: 46, 47; Sanchez de la Baquera, 1747: 101). El
autor de la Relacion geografica de Queretaro explica: ?porque en sus juegos
y pasatiempos tenian un cercado hecho de unas paredes vajas a do jugavan a
la pelota con las nalgas, de un betun que salta llamado ule y el dicho juego
de la pelota o cercado se llama en la dicha lengua otomi maxei y assi llaman
en la dicha lengua otomi al pueblo de queretaro anda maxei que quiere dezir
el mayor juego de pelota y llamaronle asi porque las dichas pe?as adonde
primero poblo el dicho yndio conni con su gente tenian la faicion y hechura
del cercado do jugavan a la pelota? (Ramos, 1582: 2r; 1989: 123). Los
tarascos llamaban el mismo pueblo Querehtaro, ?lugar de la cancha del juego
de pelota? (Gilberti, 1990: 49r; 1997: 142). Los nahuas le decian Tlachco,
?en el juego de pelota? (Urquiola, sin fecha: 101). Los otomies del sur del
estado de Queretaro llaman Maxei a la capital del estado (Hekking, 1995: 19;
Hekking/Andres de Jesus, 1989: 159). En el Mezquital la palabra para
Queretaro conserva el morfema aumentativo, aunque la palabra Ant?max?i ha
sido sincopada desde mediados del siglo XVIII, quedando como Nd?mx?i
(Hernandez/Victoria/Sinclair, 2004: 192; Lopez Yepes, 1826: 219; Neve y
Molina, 1767: 78, Wallis, 1956: 158). En el habla del Mezquital Max?i es
Tasquillo (el Tlachco chico), un pueblo ubicado al noroeste de Ixmiquilpan
(Hernandez/Victoria/Sinclair, 2004: 150; Wallis, 1956: 158).

REFERENCIAS

Carceres, Pedro de
1907 ?Arte de la lengua othomi?, Nicolas Leon, editor, en Boletin del
Instituto Bibliografico Mexicano, no. 6, pp. 39-155.

Gilberti, Maturino
1990 Vocabulario en lengua de Mechuacan, facsimil de la ed. de 1559, Mexico,
Centro de Estudios de Historia de Mexico Condumex.
1997 Vocabulario en lengua de Mechuacan, Agustin Jacinto Zavala, paleografo,
Zamora/Mexico, El Colegio de Michoacan/Fideicomiso Teixidor.

Hekking, Ewald Ferdinand Rudolf
1995 El otomi de Santiago Mexquititlan: desplazamiento ling?istico,
prestamos y cambios gramaticales, Amsterdam, Institute for Functional
Research into Language and Language Use, Universiteit van Amsterdam.

Hekking, Ewald Ferdinand Rudolf; Andres de Jesus, Severiano.
1989 Diccionario espa?ol-otomi de Santiago Mexquititlan, Queretaro, Centro
de Estudios Ling?isticos y Literarios, Universidad Autonoma de Queretaro.

Hernandez Cruz, Luis; Victoria Torquemada, Moises; Sinclair Crawford, Donald
1998 Diccionario h??h?u del valle del Mezquital, estado de Hidalgo, Mexico,
version xerografica preliminar, Ixmiquilpan, Instituto Ling?istico de
Verano/Academia de Cultura H??h?u.

Lopez Yepes, Joaquin
1826 Catecismo y declaracion de la doctrina cristiana en lengua otomi, con
un vocabulario del mismo idioma, Mexico, Oficina del Ciudadano Alejandro
Valdes.

Neve y Molina, Luis de
1767 Reglas de orthografia, diccionario y arte del idioma othomi, breve
instruccion para los principiantes, Mexico, Imprenta de la Bibliotheca
Mexicana.

Ramos de Cardenas, Francisco
1582 Relacion geografica de Queretaro, University of Texas at Austin, Benson
Latin American Collection, Joaquin Garcia Icazbalceta Collection, vol. 24,
documento no. 17.
1989 ?Relacion geografica de Queretaro (1582)?, en David Charles Wright
Carr, Queretaro en el siglo XVI, fuentes documentales primarias, Queretaro,
Secretaria de Cultura y Bienestar Social, Gobierno del Estado de Queretaro,
pp. 93-219.

Sanchez de la Baquera, Juan
1747 Modo breve de aprender a leer, escribir, pronunciar y hablar el idioma
otomi, en el cual se contiene su ortografia, arte, y modo de conjugar, y un
confesionario con examen de conciencia, Chicago, The Newberry Library, Ayer
ms. 1650.

Urbano, Alonso
1990 Arte breve de la lengua otomi y vocabulario triling?e
espa?ol-nahuatl-otomi, facsimil del ms., Rene Acu?a, estudio, Mexico,
Instituto de Investigaciones Filologicas, Universidad Nacional Autonoma de
Mexico.

Urquiola Permisan, Jose Ignacio (editor)
sin fecha Primeras noticias sobre la conquista, posesion, limites y
encomenderos del pueblo de Queretaro, Jose Ignacio Urquiola Permisan,
estudio; Martha Carre?o Lopez, Jose Andres Landaverde Rivera, Alejandra
Medina Medina y Jose Ignacio Urquiola Permisan, paleografia, Queretaro, H.
Ayuntamiento, Municipio de Queretaro.

Wallis, Ethel Emilia
1956 ?Toponimia otomi del valle del Mezquital?, en Revista Mexicana de
Estudios Antropologicos (Sociedad Mexicana de Antropologia), vol. 14, 1a.
parte, pp. 153-160.

Wright Carr, David Charles
2005 Los otomies: cultura, lengua y escritura, 2 vols., tesis, Zamora,
Doctorado en Ciencias Sociales, El Colegio de Michoacan.

******************************************************

De: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org [mailto:nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org]
En nombre de roberto romero
Enviado el: jueves, 21 de octubre de 2010 00:29
Para: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
Asunto: [Nahuat-l] Una traduccion de un toponimo otomi 2

[
]

Como sabemos nunca existio tal juego de pelota como construccion humana y
producto cultural en el lugar que es ahora Queretaro ni en la cienega donde
esta ubicada la ciudad colonial ni en la ca?ada .?
Le llamaban el gran juego de pelota a la estrecha ca?ada o barranca en que
asentaron chichimecas nahuas, otomis y de otras lenguas.?
Las paredes de la barranca, la forma de esta mas estrecha en su base les
parecia o les recordaba a los indios la construccion de un juego de pelota.


_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx  Thu Oct 21 16:32:49 2010
From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 11:32:49 -0500
Subject: Una traduccion de un top=?iso-8859-1?Q?=F3nimo_?= otomi (C)
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTincNa3tr2AL+1uWLOCno+Vi8c_D6NQv0EmXNt-t@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <THU.21.OCT.2010.113249.0500.DCWRIGHT@PRODIGY.NET.MX>

Roberto:

Respondo a tu pregunta final:

No encuentro la palabra para chia en el vocabulario triling?e de Alonso
Urbano. Tal vez se encuentre en algun otro lexicon antiguo, pero por el
momento no te puedo proporcionar el dato. En el Diccionario del h??h?u
(otomi) del Valle del Mezquital encontramos la voz k'u. Este diccionario,
uno de los mas completos sobre una variante moderna del otomi, es ahora
disponible en linea de manera gratuita, en formato PDF:

http://www.sil.org/americas/mexico/otopame/mezquital/S045a-DicOtomiMezq-ote.
htm

Saludos,

David Wright

******************************************************
De: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org [mailto:nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org]
En nombre de roberto romero
Enviado el: jueves, 21 de octubre de 2010 00:29
Para: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
Asunto: [Nahuat-l] Una traduccion de un toponimo otomi 2

[...]

La pregunta final es como se escribia o se decia esea semilla llamada Chia
en el otomi del XVI quizas se sigue diciendo igual en la actualidad.

gracias?
Roberto Romero Gutierrez


_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From cuecuex at gmail.com  Mon Oct 25 06:50:52 2010
From: cuecuex at gmail.com (roberto romero)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 01:50:52 -0500
Subject: pedernal y conejo
Message-ID: <MON.25.OCT.2010.015052.0500.CUECUEX@GMAIL.COM>

David Wright

Para los navegantes de Internet tu nos hiciste el favor de publicar una
versi?n del C?dice de Huichapan que esta en formato zip. Esa versi?n que
descargue tiene dos archivos zip Cod_huic y Cod_huic.ine. Esta ?ltimo
corresponde a la bibliografia y el primero al texto del citado c?dice

En el Folio 11 de tu versi?n aparece y lo copio con cut and paste no lo
transcribo

1. Antoqhuay Enero

Sin embargo al comparar este linea con la traduccion de Ecker que publico la
UNAM en esta se lee:

Enero
1 Antoqhuay pedernal
an to-khwai

Una lectura descuidada lleva a pensar que tu traduces Antoqhuay como Enero

Me parece que no es as? y lo que leemos como traducci?n debo suponer que se
debe a un error al dar formato al documento

Lo que tu elegiste hacer en tu edici?n del c?dice fue no anotar la traduci?n
de cada d?a de ese mes de enero como viene en la edici?n de Ecker Tu
transcribes literalmente el texto que viene en el manuscrito sea este otomi
o castellano o latino pero no traduces

1.- La primer pregunta es Estoy en lo correcto en esta observaci?n.

Lo que hace Ecker en su edici?n tambi?n es darnos las palabras que
construyen el t?rmino.

As? Anc?ndehe viene de An K? n dehe y es aguador y en el caso que nos
ocupa:
Antoqhuay es An - to - khwai ( Este lo traduce pedernal [el d?a 1de enero]
pero tambien lo traduce como cuchilo de pedernal [el d?a 21 de enero] .

En el d?a 10 que Ecker traduce como conejo el termino es

Anqhua el cual en la misma operaci?n de ense?ar las palabras que dan origen
al termino este resulta en: an Khwa

Me llama mucho la atenci?n que en ambas palabras Pedernal y conejo el primer
elemento es an y que en ambas palabras el ?ltimo elemento es casi el mismo
Qhuay (Khwai) en pedernal y Qhua (khwa) en conejo

Pareciera que estan muy relacionados en otomi las palabras conejo y pedernal
. Su sonido y su escritura en caracteres latinos son muy parecidos

2.- Existe esta relaci?n de homofonia y cuasi homo escritura entre
 Qhuay (pedernal) y Qhua(conejo)

3..- La letra Y presente al final de Qhuay (pedernal) es un fonema que
altera el significado de qhua (conejo)

Gracias como siempre por tu tiempo y respuesta

Roberto Romero Gutierrez
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From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx  Mon Oct 25 15:20:52 2010
From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 10:20:52 -0500
Subject: pedernal y conejo
Message-ID: <MON.25.OCT.2010.102052.0500.DCWRIGHT@PRODIGY.NET.MX>

Estimado Roberto:

 

Tienes razon; lo que publique en SUP-INFOR es solo la version paleografica
de los textos alfabeticos del Codice de Huichapan, sin traduccion. En el
cuadro que mencionas trate de apegarme en lo posible al formato
correspondiente en el manuscrito original, donde la informacion se presenta
en varias columnas. Hasta ahora no existe una traduccion completa de los
textos en otomi de este manuscrito que sea confiable. Esto se debe
principalmente a que, a diferencia del nahuatl, queda mucho trabajo que
hacer para conocer a fondo la variante del otomi que se hablaba en los
valles centrales de Mexico en el periodo Novohispano Temprano. Hay algunos
intentos de traducir textos enteros, pero siguen siendo bastante tentativos.
La traduccion del Codice de Huichapan que hizo Lawrence Ecker hace mas de
medio siglo tiene muchos problemas, como tambien la tiene la traduccion de
Manuel Alvarado Guinchard.

 

No creo que antojwai sea ?pedernal?, sino ?la navaja de piedra?, dia en
otomi que corresponde a cipactli (animal que se dibuja en los codices, dicho
sea de paso, con navajas en el rostro y/o en el dorso). La palabra otomi que
corresponde a tecpatl, ?pedernal?, es aneyaxi, ?el cuchillo de pedernal?.
Creo que la similitud fonica entre antojwai, ?la navaja de piedra? y anjwa,
?conejo?, es una mera coincidencia.

 

Publique mis intentos de traduccion de los terminos calendaricos del Codice
de Huichapan (y los que aparecen en otras fuentes novohispanas) en el numero
mas reciente de la revista Tlalocan (David Charles Wright Carr, ?El
calendario mesoamericano en las lenguas otomi y nahuatl?, en Tlalocan
(Instituto de Investigaciones Filologicas, UNAM), vol. 16, 2009, pp.
217-253). Ahi se comparan las voces en otomi con los terminos
correspondientes en nahuatl. En general las palabras en ambas lenguas son
calcos (con el mismo significado, o similares), aunque algunas parecen
significar cosas distintas. Esto no necesariamente se debe a las diferencias
culturales entre los dos grupos ling?isticos, porque tambien hay diferencias
semanticas entre las palabras usadas en nahuatl en se?orios de distintas
regiones. Lo que he encontrado en general, al comparar las palabras en otom?
y en n?huatl de diferentes campos sem?nticos (toponimos, antroponimos,
nombres de dioses, terminos calendaricos, estructuras sociales, etcetera) es
una gran semejanza cultural entre los otomies y los nahuas que conviv?an en
el centro de M?xico en tiempos de la Conquista, lo cual no me sorprende,
porque en aquel entonces hab?an sido vecinos durante m?s de medio milenio,
en muchos casos viviendo en los mismos se?or?os, buena parte de los cuales
eran pluriling?es.

 

Saludos,

 

David

 

De: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org [mailto:nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org]
En nombre de roberto romero
Enviado el: lunes, 25 de octubre de 2010 01:51
Para: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org; nahuatl-bounces at list.famsi.org
Asunto: [Nahuat-l] pedernal y conejo

 

David Wright 

Para los navegantes de Internet tu nos hiciste el favor de publicar una
versi?n del C?dice de Huichapan que esta en formato zip. Esa versi?n que
descargue tiene dos archivos zip Cod_huic y Cod_huic.ine. Esta ?ltimo
corresponde a la bibliografia y el primero al texto del citado c?dice

En el Folio 11 de tu versi?n aparece y lo copio con cut and paste no lo
transcribo

1. Antoqhuay Enero

Sin embargo al comparar este linea con la traduccion de Ecker que publico la
UNAM en esta se lee:

Enero
1 Antoqhuay pedernal
an to-khwai

Una lectura descuidada lleva a pensar que tu traduces Antoqhuay como Enero 

Me parece que no es as? y lo que leemos como traducci?n debo suponer que se
debe a un error al dar formato al documento

Lo que tu elegiste hacer en tu edici?n del c?dice fue no anotar la traduci?n
de cada d?a de ese mes de enero como viene en la edici?n de Ecker Tu
transcribes literalmente el texto que viene en el manuscrito sea este otomi
o castellano o latino pero no traduces 

1.- La primer pregunta es Estoy en lo correcto en esta observaci?n. 

Lo que hace Ecker en su edici?n tambi?n es darnos las palabras que
construyen el t?rmino.

As? Anc?ndehe viene de An K? n dehe y es aguador y en el caso que nos ocupa:

Antoqhuay es An - to - khwai ( Este lo traduce pedernal [el d?a 1de enero]
pero tambien lo traduce como cuchilo de pedernal [el d?a 21 de enero] .

En el d?a 10 que Ecker traduce como conejo el termino es 

Anqhua el cual en la misma operaci?n de ense?ar las palabras que dan origen
al termino este resulta en: an Khwa 

Me llama mucho la atenci?n que en ambas palabras Pedernal y conejo el primer
elemento es an y que en ambas palabras el ?ltimo elemento es casi el mismo
Qhuay (Khwai) en pedernal y Qhua (khwa) en conejo

Pareciera que estan muy relacionados en otomi las palabras conejo y pedernal
. Su sonido y su escritura en caracteres latinos son muy parecidos 

2.- Existe esta relaci?n de homofonia y cuasi homo escritura entre 
 Qhuay (pedernal) y Qhua(conejo)

3..- La letra Y presente al final de Qhuay (pedernal) es un fonema que
altera el significado de qhua (conejo) 

Gracias como siempre por tu tiempo y respuesta 

Roberto Romero Gutierrez 

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From rdurkan at hotmail.com  Mon Oct 25 17:11:05 2010
From: rdurkan at hotmail.com (Richard Durkan)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 18:11:05 +0100
Subject: Colonial language policy in the Americas
Message-ID: <MON.25.OCT.2010.181105.0100.RDURKAN@HOTMAIL.COM>


I am trying to do some personal research at the moment into colonial language policy and I wonder if anyone has attempted a study with this particular focus (as opposed to studying the colonial experience more generally). I am interested mainly the Spanish and Portuguese approaches and would be most interested to know if there are any such works.
 
Richard Durkan 		 	   		  
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From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx  Tue Oct 26 01:18:11 2010
From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 20:18:11 -0500
Subject: Colonial language policy in the Americas
In-Reply-To: <BAY147-w379043F1CA76F0C48CECC0BA410@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <MON.25.OCT.2010.201811.0500.DCWRIGHT@PRODIGY.NET.MX>

Estimado Richard:

I made a modest contribution to the study colonial language policy and its
application in New Spain in a journal article; through the references you
can get an idea of the major published sources, both colonial and modern.
This is an exploratory study; the hard work of digging into the archives
lies ahead.

?La pol?tica ling??stica en la Nueva Espa?a?, en Acta Universitaria
(Direcci?n de Investigaci?n y Posgrado, Universidad de Guanajuato), vol. 17,
no. 3, sep.-dic. 2007, pp. 5-19.

The article can be downloaded without subscriptions or fees (as it should
be) here:

http://www.dinpo.ugto.mx/acta/publicaciones/v17-3/actav17n3.htm

Saludos,

David Wright

De: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org [mailto:nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org]
En nombre de Richard Durkan
Enviado el: lunes, 25 de octubre de 2010 12:11
Para: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
Asunto: [Nahuat-l] Colonial language policy in the Americas

I am trying to do some personal research at the moment into colonial
language policy and I wonder if anyone has attempted?a study with this
particular focus?(as opposed to?studying the colonial experience more
generally). I am interested?mainly the?Spanish and Portuguese approaches and
would be most interested?to know?if there are any such works.
?
Richard Durkan


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Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
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From szakaib at gmail.com  Mon Oct 25 18:23:27 2010
From: szakaib at gmail.com (Susan Zakaib)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 13:23:27 -0500
Subject: Colonial language policy in the Americas
In-Reply-To: <BAY147-w379043F1CA76F0C48CECC0BA410@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <MON.25.OCT.2010.132327.0500.SZAKAIB@GMAIL.COM>

Hi Richard (and list!),

I haven't looked at the Portuguese case, but I believe there's very
little out there on colonial Spanish language policy. Dorothy Tanck de
Estrada examines Mexico's late colonial language policies and their
implementation in indigenous communities in _Pueblos de Indios y
Educaci?n en el M?xico Colonial, 1750-1821_. For early Peru, take a
look at Alan Durston's _Pastoral Quechua: The History of Christian
Translation in Colonial Peru, 1550-1650_ . Those are the only two
studies I know of that really delve into the subject. If anyone has
any other recommendations, I would love to hear about them as well.

You're welcome to get in touch with me if you'd like to discuss this
topic further. I'm writing my dissertation on language policy in
Bourbon Mexico--I'm in the very early stages of my research, so I'm no
expert by any means, but I'd be happy to help out if I can.

I hope this helps!

Susan Zakaib



On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 12:11 PM, Richard Durkan <rdurkan at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> I am trying to do some personal research at the moment into colonial language policy and I wonder if anyone has attempted?a study with this particular focus?(as opposed to?studying the colonial experience more generally). I am interested?mainly the?Spanish and Portuguese approaches and would be most interested?to know?if there are any such works.
>
> Richard Durkan
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>

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