maxtlatl etymology

Wed Feb 16 20:10:01 UTC 2011

Listeros:

I think I can get a decent derivation of  a root maxa to maxtlatl, but it
requires a weird, although not impossible derivation, and it doesn't explain
how it would have come to mean fox.

*maxa  "to split, bifucate"  (hypothetical protonahuatl root)

*maxa-ta "something bifurcated" (ta is the original form of the the
absolutive suffix)
> apocope *(described by Dakin and Canger) *max-ta
> (whorf's law)  ma:xtla
> then for some reason the word is reinterpreted as a root and a new
absolutive suffix is attached so we get *maxtlatla
> then the last vowel is dropped  and we get maxtla-tl "something split" I
think this ought to be the etymology for loincloth at that at least has a
common meaning with bifurcate as it covers our own anatomical bifurcation.

maxactli "cave/female genital opening" would come from maxakata through the
same process. the ka of course being the perfective -ka-.

This model requires some kind of explanation of why "something split" comes
to mean "loincloth" and "fox". It also doesn't cause tepemaxtla to mean
mountain splitter, since the tepe could only have been prefxed after the
word maxtlatl had come to mean fox rather than "something split".

Also I am unsure about vowel length on the first ma syllable - I know
loincloth has length, but I am currently unsure of the others, do maxalihui
and maxactli have vowel length in classical? (I am away from my
dictionaries)

best

Magnus

On 16 February 2011 14:28, Michael McCafferty <mmccaffe at indiana.edu> wrote:

> Well, his opus magnus is almost in the can. I imagine that the disks will
> be out there at Amazon in the fairly near future. I've been pushing him to
> do it sooner than later, but he IS getting to the point where he sees the
> work's publication happening pretty soon.
>
> I don't know if you know, and I know I don't know the whole extent of it,
> but he's taken the oldest dictionaries, and the Florentine Codex, etc. and
> put it all into machine-readable form and has analyzed, oh, I imagine 96% of
> the words, breaking them down into their component morphemes, explaining
> their derivations, and it comes with various ways of looking at all the
> material. It's actually unbelievable. Here's a sample of a couple of lines
> of one of the files. I'll attach it. Somewhere I have in my email an email
> from him telling me exactly what he has done. The above description is
> sketchy, it's humongous, that's one thing. All the coding is of course
> explained in the introduction.
>
>
>
>
>
> Quoting Magnus Pharao Hansen <magnuspharao at gmail.com>:
>
>  True, I've often wondered why he never published more about it than that
>> IJAL article, he must have a lot of wonderful notes lying around. I keep
>> working on the Hueyapan dialect btw. I certainly also respect him as an
>> etymologist, if he comes up with something I know it will be solid. Few
>> people have as good an overview of the Nahuatl lexicon as he.
>>
>>
>> On 16 February 2011 14:13, Michael McCafferty <mmccaffe at indiana.edu>
>> wrote:
>>
>>  When your name comes up, Joe always says, "He's worked in the Hueyapan
>>> dialect."
>>> He respects that a lot.
>>>
>>> And, you know, that's where he started.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Quoting Magnus Pharao Hansen <magnuspharao at gmail.com>:
>>>
>>>  It might be viewed as an insult against those who still practice that
>>> kind
>>>
>>>> of etymology, but I have no reason to count you among those (the you in
>>>> my
>>>> previous clause was meant as a plural you inclduing Professor Campbell).
>>>> I
>>>> am glad you weren't offended, and sorry if I have been overly
>>>> argumentative
>>>> or abrasive.
>>>>
>>>> best
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 16 February 2011 14:00, Michael McCafferty <mmccaffe at indiana.edu>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  Quoting Magnus Pharao Hansen <magnuspharao at gmail.com>:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  I didn't mean to insult you with that, but both Roberto Romero and
>>>>>
>>>>>  Professor
>>>>>> Grigsby's proposals were completely without basis in data, motivated
>>>>>> only
>>>>>> by
>>>>>> chance resemblance between roots. I called them out on that and
>>>>>> encouraged
>>>>>> others to find some actual supprtive arguments.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> If you can construct a
>>>>>
>>>>>  viable etymology from having to do with splitting then that is great.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> But
>>>>>
>>>>>  seriously, making etymology through simple resemblance is not a viable
>>>>>
>>>>>> form
>>>>>> of practicing philology any more.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Well, this is what one could term an insult, all the Whorfian
>>>>> blather.
>>>>>
>>>>> But I don't take it as such.
>>>>>
>>>>> I understand the views on the problem. I see them.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, it's no problem.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't know how long it'll take Joe to do the work, but he told me
>>>>> he's
>>>>> gathering data. /:-)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  --
>>>> Magnus Pharao Hansen
>>>> Graduate student
>>>> Department of Anthropology
>>>>
>>>> Brown University
>>>> 128 Hope St.
>>>> Providence, RI 02906
>>>>
>>>> *magnus_pharao_hansen at brown.edu*
>>>> US: 001 401 651 8413
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Magnus Pharao Hansen
>> Graduate student
>> Department of Anthropology
>>
>> Brown University
>> 128 Hope St.
>> Providence, RI 02906
>>
>> *magnus_pharao_hansen at brown.edu*
>> US: 001 401 651 8413
>>
>>
>
>

-- 
Magnus Pharao Hansen
Graduate student
Department of Anthropology

Brown University
128 Hope St.
Providence, RI 02906

*magnus_pharao_hansen at brown.edu*
US: 001 401 651 8413

-- 
Magnus Pharao Hansen
Graduate student
Department of Anthropology

Brown University
128 Hope St.
Providence, RI 02906

*magnus_pharao_hansen at brown.edu*
US: 001 401 651 8413
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/nahuat-l/attachments/20110216/e3b154ac/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl