From idiez at me.com  Tue Nov  1 02:18:59 2011
From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2011 22:18:59 -0400
Subject: ihcequi
Message-ID: <MON.31.OCT.2011.221859.0400.IDIEZ@ME.COM>

Piyali notequixpoyohuan,
	The following is complements of Mary Clayton:

The Nahuatl text is as follows (book 3 p.31):
(original spelling)
"auh ce illamato (quitoa quil ieh in tlacateculotl ipan omixeuh, co^mixiptlati
in jllamato) vmpa motlalito in xochitla, vmpa teycequjaia, auh in izquitl in 
quicequia vel onjiaia icematonaoac, vel inpan onmolonja, onmotecaia 
icematonaoac tlaca, centlalli motecaia yn jiaializ in izquitl." 
 
(standardized spelling)
"auh ce illamato (quitoa quil yeh in tlacatecolotl ipan omixeuh, commixiptlati 
in ilamato) ompa motlalito in xochitla, ompa teicequiaya, auh in izquitl in 
quicequia huel oniyaya icematonahuac, huel impan ommolonia, ommotecaya 
icematonahuac tlaca, centlalli motecaya in iyayaliz in izquitl." 
 
(Dibble and Anderson's English)
"and a little old woman (they said it was thought that the demon appeared as, 
took the form of, the little old woman) came to sit there at xochitlan; there 
she toasted maize.  and the hot maize, as she toasted it, spread its fragance 
the world over. indeed it poured, it extended over the people the world 
over. over the whole land extended the odor of the toasting maize." 


*ihcequi ***
  acocilihcequi , n- (n$acocilihcequi).  I toast shrimp. <p11-acocilin-
    ihcequi>. b.11 f.7 p.64|
  ayohhuachihcequi , n[i]- (n[i]$ayohhuachihcequi).  I parch gourd seeds
    or squash seeds. <p11-ayohtli-achtli-ihcequi>. b.11 f.27 p.288|
  ayohhuachtlahcectli (ayohhuachtlahcectli).  toasted gourd seed.
    <ayohtli-achtli-p51-ihcequi-l2>. b.10 f.4 p.68|
  ihceconi (ihceconi).  something which can be toasted. <ihcequi-lo:1-
    ni1>. b.11 f.7 p.64|
  [i]hcectli , tla- (tla$[i]hcectli).  something toasted. <p51-ihcequi-
    l2>. b.10 f.4 p.65|
  ihcectli =tla (tla[i]hcectli).  cosa tostada, assi como garuanzos,
    pepitas, cacao. &c. <p51-ihcequi-l2>. 71m2-20|
  ihcequi , m[o]- (m[o]$ihcequi).  it is roasted; it is parched; it is
    fired. <p54-ihcequi>. b.11 f.12 p.120|
  ihcequi , qu- (qu-ihcequi).  they roast it; they toast it. <p33-
    ihcequi>. b.2 f.7 p.127|
  ihcequi =nitla (nitlaihcequi).  tostar mayz, vel simile. en comal o en
    sarten. <p11-p51-ihcequi>. 71m1-201|
  ihcequi =nitla=onitlaihcec. huel. onitlahcec (ihcequi
    =nitla=onitlaihcec. huel. onitlahcec).  tostar maiz, o garuanzos en
    comalli. <p11-p51-ihcequi>. 71m2-6|
  ihcequi (ihcequi).  it toasts, it roasts. <ihcequi>. b.11 f.14 p.142|
  ihcequiya , qu- (qu$ihcequia).  she toasted it. <p33-ihcequi-ya3>. b.3
    f.2 p.31|
  ihcequiaya , te- (te$ihcequiaya).  . <p52-ihcequi-ben-ya3>. b.3 f.2 p.31|
  ihcequiz , m[o]- (m[o]$ihcequiz).  it will be roasted. <p54-ihcequi-
    z>. b.11 f.19 p.192|
  nacatlahcectli (nacatlahcectli).  roast meat. <nacatl-p51-ihcequi-l2>.
    b.8 f.2 p.37|
  tlahcectli (tlahcectli).  tostada cosa assi  (assi is tostar mayz, vel
    simile. en comal o en sarten). <p51-ihcequi-l2>. 71m1-201|

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From idiez at me.com  Tue Nov  1 02:50:22 2011
From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2011 22:50:22 -0400
Subject: ihcequi doing it=?windows-1252?Q?=92s_?=applicative thing
Message-ID: <MON.31.OCT.2011.225022.0400.IDIEZ@ME.COM>

Ok Mitsuya and demás listeros,
	Half of the temporarily constituted and soon to be dissolved Nahuatl morphology academy here at Notre Dame thinks that perhaps:
1. te-, “non-specific human object” + ihcequi (intransitive), “corn toasts or is toasted” + -ia (applicative) + -ya (imperfect tense suffix) = teihcequiaya, “corn was toasted for people”
2. qui, “3rd person singular specific object” + ihcequi (transitive), “to toast something” + ya, (imperfect tense suffix) = quihcequiya, “she was toasting it”
and the other half is reluctant to make a commitment to a firm decision on the matter.
John
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From hawatari21centuries at gmail.com  Tue Nov  1 11:55:16 2011
From: hawatari21centuries at gmail.com (SASAKI Mitsuya)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 20:55:16 +0900
Subject: ihcequi doing it=?windows-1252?Q?=92s_?=applicative thing
In-Reply-To: <D1B89752-93C8-4043-A9D6-5C9C7015FDB1@me.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.1.NOV.2011.205516.0900.HAWATARI21CENTURIES@GMAIL.COM>

John,

Thanks for the comment and the data.
Now the only remaining problem with this construal is that we have to 
assume two "ihcequi"'s, intransitive and transitive, like "ahci(vt/vi)".
Que chida academia!

Mitsuya SASAKI
The Department of Linguistics, the University of Tokyo
ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp

(2011/11/01 11:50), John Sullivan wrote:
> Ok Mitsuya and demás listeros,
> 	Half of the temporarily constituted and soon to be dissolved Nahuatl morphology academy here at Notre Dame thinks that perhaps:
> 1. te-, “non-specific human object” + ihcequi (intransitive), “corn toasts or is toasted” + -ia (applicative) + -ya (imperfect tense suffix) = teihcequiaya, “corn was toasted for people”
> 2. qui, “3rd person singular specific object” + ihcequi (transitive), “to toast something” + ya, (imperfect tense suffix) = quihcequiya, “she was toasting it”
> and the other half is reluctant to make a commitment to a firm decision on the matter.
> John
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl

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From idiez at me.com  Tue Nov  1 13:38:59 2011
From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 09:38:59 -0400
Subject: ihcequi doing it=?windows-1252?Q?=92s_?=applicative thing
In-Reply-To: <4EAFDE24.90604@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.1.NOV.2011.093859.0400.IDIEZ@ME.COM>

Piyali Mitsuya,
	Efectivamente, ihcequi tiene una forma tanto intransitiva [ihcequi (ihcequi).  it toasts, it roasts. <ihcequi>. b.11 f.14 p.142|)]  como transitiva [ihcequi , qu- (qu-ihcequi).  they roast it; they toast it. <p33- ihcequi>. b.2 f.7 p.127|].
	Y sí, ¡qué chido!
John

On Nov 1, 2011, at 7:55 AM, SASAKI Mitsuya wrote:

> John,
> 
> Thanks for the comment and the data.
> Now the only remaining problem with this construal is that we have to assume two "ihcequi"'s, intransitive and transitive, like "ahci(vt/vi)".
> Que chida academia!
> 
> Mitsuya SASAKI
> The Department of Linguistics, the University of Tokyo
> ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp
> 
> (2011/11/01 11:50), John Sullivan wrote:
>> Ok Mitsuya and demás listeros,
>> 	Half of the temporarily constituted and soon to be dissolved Nahuatl morphology academy here at Notre Dame thinks that perhaps:
>> 1. te-, “non-specific human object” + ihcequi (intransitive), “corn toasts or is toasted” + -ia (applicative) + -ya (imperfect tense suffix) = teihcequiaya, “corn was toasted for people”
>> 2. qui, “3rd person singular specific object” + ihcequi (transitive), “to toast something” + ya, (imperfect tense suffix) = quihcequiya, “she was toasting it”
>> and the other half is reluctant to make a commitment to a firm decision on the matter.
>> John
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nahuatl mailing list
>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl

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From hawatari21centuries at gmail.com  Tue Nov  1 14:19:42 2011
From: hawatari21centuries at gmail.com (SASAKI Mitsuya)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 23:19:42 +0900
Subject: ihcequi doing it=?windows-1252?Q?=92s_?=applicative thing
In-Reply-To: <9A58E974-D1C6-4C48-BBDF-B436CBADE93A@me.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.1.NOV.2011.231942.0900.HAWATARI21CENTURIES@GMAIL.COM>

John,

Es increíble qué rápido encuentras los buenos ejemplos.
Entonces, quizás podemos decir que ihcequi tenía dos estructuras 
argumentales distintas. No sabía que este tema era tan interesante.

Mitsuya SASAKI
The Department of Linguistics, the University of Tokyo
ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp

(2011/11/01 22:38), John Sullivan wrote:
> Piyali Mitsuya,
> 	Efectivamente, ihcequi tiene una forma tanto intransitiva [ihcequi (ihcequi).  it toasts, it roasts.<ihcequi>. b.11 f.14 p.142|)]  como transitiva [ihcequi , qu- (qu-ihcequi).  they roast it; they toast it.<p33- ihcequi>. b.2 f.7 p.127|].
> 	Y sí, ¡qué chido!
> John
>
> On Nov 1, 2011, at 7:55 AM, SASAKI Mitsuya wrote:
>
>> John,
>>
>> Thanks for the comment and the data.
>> Now the only remaining problem with this construal is that we have to assume two "ihcequi"'s, intransitive and transitive, like "ahci(vt/vi)".
>> Que chida academia!
>>
>> Mitsuya SASAKI
>> The Department of Linguistics, the University of Tokyo
>> ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp
>>
>> (2011/11/01 11:50), John Sullivan wrote:
>>> Ok Mitsuya and demás listeros,
>>> 	Half of the temporarily constituted and soon to be dissolved Nahuatl morphology academy here at Notre Dame thinks that perhaps:
>>> 1. te-, “non-specific human object” + ihcequi (intransitive), “corn toasts or is toasted” + -ia (applicative) + -ya (imperfect tense suffix) = teihcequiaya, “corn was toasted for people”
>>> 2. qui, “3rd person singular specific object” + ihcequi (transitive), “to toast something” + ya, (imperfect tense suffix) = quihcequiya, “she was toasting it”
>>> and the other half is reluctant to make a commitment to a firm decision on the matter.
>>> John
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nahuatl mailing list
>>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nahuatl mailing list
>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>

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From jdanahuatl at gmail.com  Tue Nov  1 15:36:02 2011
From: jdanahuatl at gmail.com (Jonathan Amith)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 11:36:02 -0400
Subject: ihcequi doing it=?windows-1252?Q?=92s_?=applicative thing
In-Reply-To: <9A58E974-D1C6-4C48-BBDF-B436CBADE93A@me.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.1.NOV.2011.113602.0400.JDANAHUATL@GMAIL.COM>

Dear list members,

I was wondering if ihseki as an intransitive is documented and where.
Best, Jonathan
On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 9:38 AM, John Sullivan <idiez at me.com> wrote:

> Piyali Mitsuya,
>        Efectivamente, ihcequi tiene una forma tanto intransitiva [ihcequi
> (ihcequi).  it toasts, it roasts. <ihcequi>. b.11 f.14 p.142|)]  como
> transitiva [ihcequi , qu- (qu-ihcequi).  they roast it; they toast it.
> <p33- ihcequi>. b.2 f.7 p.127|].
>        Y sí, ¡qué chido!
> John
>
> On Nov 1, 2011, at 7:55 AM, SASAKI Mitsuya wrote:
>
> > John,
> >
> > Thanks for the comment and the data.
> > Now the only remaining problem with this construal is that we have to
> assume two "ihcequi"'s, intransitive and transitive, like "ahci(vt/vi)".
> > Que chida academia!
> >
> > Mitsuya SASAKI
> > The Department of Linguistics, the University of Tokyo
> > ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp
> >
> > (2011/11/01 11:50), John Sullivan wrote:
> >> Ok Mitsuya and demás listeros,
> >>      Half of the temporarily constituted and soon to be dissolved
> Nahuatl morphology academy here at Notre Dame thinks that perhaps:
> >> 1. te-, “non-specific human object” + ihcequi (intransitive), “corn
> toasts or is toasted” + -ia (applicative) + -ya (imperfect tense suffix) =
> teihcequiaya, “corn was toasted for people”
> >> 2. qui, “3rd person singular specific object” + ihcequi (transitive),
> “to toast something” + ya, (imperfect tense suffix) = quihcequiya, “she was
> toasting it”
> >> and the other half is reluctant to make a commitment to a firm decision
> on the matter.
> >> John
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Nahuatl mailing list
> >> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> >> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Nahuatl mailing list
> > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>
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From idiez at me.com  Tue Nov  1 16:58:53 2011
From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 12:58:53 -0400
Subject: ihcequi doing it=?windows-1252?Q?=92s_?=applicative thing
In-Reply-To: <D1B89752-93C8-4043-A9D6-5C9C7015FDB1@me.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.1.NOV.2011.125853.0400.IDIEZ@ME.COM>

Mitsuya,

     On the issue of Nahuatl verbs that are both transitive and intransitive, we have others in the same category -- e.g., e:hua, chipa:hua, mela:hua:

    e:hua      she arises
   e:huac     she arose
   que:uh    she raised it

   chipa:hua   it becomes pure
  chipa:huac  it became pure
 quichi:pauh  he purified it

Joe
  (the other half of the soon-to-be-dissolved Nahuatl morphology academy here at Notre Dame) 

On Oct 31, 2011, at 10:50 PM, John Sullivan wrote:

> Ok Mitsuya and demás listeros,
> 	Half of the temporarily constituted and soon to be dissolved Nahuatl morphology academy here at Notre Dame thinks that perhaps:
> 1. te-, “non-specific human object” + ihcequi (intransitive), “corn toasts or is toasted” + -ia (applicative) + -ya (imperfect tense suffix) = teihcequiaya, “corn was toasted for people”
> 2. qui, “3rd person singular specific object” + ihcequi (transitive), “to toast something” + ya, (imperfect tense suffix) = quihcequiya, “she was toasting it”
> and the other half is reluctant to make a commitment to a firm decision on the matter.
> John

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From schwallr at potsdam.edu  Tue Nov  1 19:51:22 2011
From: schwallr at potsdam.edu (John F. Schwaller)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 15:51:22 -0400
Subject: CFP - 2nd Annual Nahuatl @ Yale conference
Message-ID: <TUE.1.NOV.2011.155122.0400.SCHWALLR@POTSDAM.EDU>

Nahuatl meeting at Yale

On May 4 and 5, 2012, the Northeastern group of Nahuatl Studies will host a 
conference and workshop at Yale.  The schedule will include advanced Nahuatl 
study, group document translation, and papers by scholars.

The conference will include two sessions.  In one session, scholars will gather 
to work collectively on the translation of documents which will be shared before 
the meeting.  Folks who are working on projects are invited to share their work 
with the group beforehand.  Please contact the organizers if you wish to present 
a document for study.

The second session will include the presentation of papers on aspects of the 
Nahuatl language and linguistics, Nahuatl texts, or Nahua ethnohistory.  
Scholars interested in offering a paper should contact the organizers for inclusion.

The organizers are hoping to also offer a week-long intensive course in Nahuatl 
before the conference.

Please save the date for this coming year's conference and please consider 
participating, with a document for study, with a paper, or simply by attending.  
More details will be forthcoming as plans are made final.

The organizers include:
Caterina Pizzigoni (cp2313 at columbia.edu)
John Sullivan (idiez at me.com)
Louise Burkhart (burk at albany.edu)
John F. Schwaller (schwallr at potsdam.edu)

-- 
*****************************
John F. Schwaller
President
SUNY - Potsdam
44 Pierrepont Ave.
Potsdam, NY  13676
Tel. 315-267-2100
FAX 315-267-2496

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From jdanahuatl at gmail.com  Wed Nov  2 01:39:49 2011
From: jdanahuatl at gmail.com (Jonathan Amith)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 21:39:49 -0400
Subject: ihcequi
In-Reply-To: <20111101210408.uyau0o2utc04osk4@webmail.iu.edu>
Message-ID: <TUE.1.NOV.2011.213949.0400.JDANAHUATL@GMAIL.COM>

Hi Joe,

Thanks so much. An instrantive among many transitives. By the way, in the
Sierra Norte de Puebla there are forms such as chi:wi and a sley of
unexpected (for me) "intransitives"

On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 9:04 PM, Campbell, R. Joe <campbel at indiana.edu>wrote:

> Jonathan,
>
>
>  The following citations are from Dibble and Anderson's edition of the
> Florentine -- b. = book and p. = page.  f. = my file number.
>
> Joe
>
> only on
>
> *ihcequi ***
>  acocilihcequi , n- (n$acocilihcequi).  I toast shrimp. <p11-acocilin-
>   ihcequi>. b.11 f.7 p.64|
>  ayohhuachihcequi , n[i]- (n[i]$ayohhuachihcequi).  I parch gourd seeds
>   or squash seeds. <p11-ayohtli-achtli-ihcequi>. b.11 f.27 p.288|
>  ayohhuachtlahcectli (ayohhuachtlahcectli).  toasted gourd seed.
>   <ayohtli-achtli-p51-ihcequi-**l2>. b.10 f.4 p.68|
>  ihceconi (ihceconi).  something which can be toasted. <ihcequi-lo:1-
>   ni1>. b.11 f.7 p.64|
>  [i]hcectli , tla- (tla$[i]hcectli).  something toasted. <p51-ihcequi-
>   l2>. b.10 f.4 p.65|
>  ihcectli =tla (tla[i]hcectli).  cosa tostada, assi como garuanzos,
>   pepitas, cacao. &c. <p51-ihcequi-l2>. 71m2-20|
>  ihcequi , m[o]- (m[o]$ihcequi).  it is roasted; it is parched; it is
>   fired. <p54-ihcequi>. b.11 f.12 p.120|
>  ihcequi , qu- (qu-ihcequi).  they roast it; they toast it. <p33-
>   ihcequi>. b.2 f.7 p.127|
>  ihcequi =nitla (nitlaihcequi).  tostar mayz, vel simile. en comal o en
>   sarten. <p11-p51-ihcequi>. 71m1-201|
>  ihcequi =nitla=onitlaihcec. huel. onitlahcec (ihcequi
>   =nitla=onitlaihcec. huel. onitlahcec).  tostar maiz, o garuanzos en
>   comalli. <p11-p51-ihcequi>. 71m2-6|
>
>
>  ihcequi (ihcequi).  it toasts, it roasts. <ihcequi>. b.11 f.14 p.142|
>
>
>  ihcequiya , qu- (qu$ihcequia).  she toasted it. <p33-ihcequi-ya3>. b.3
>   f.2 p.31|
>  ihcequiaya , te- (te$ihcequiaya).  . <p52-ihcequi-ben-ya3>. b.3 f.2 p.31|
>  ihcequiz , m[o]- (m[o]$ihcequiz).  it will be roasted. <p54-ihcequi-
>   z>. b.11 f.19 p.192|
>  nacatlahcectli (nacatlahcectli).  roast meat. <nacatl-p51-ihcequi-l2>.
>   b.8 f.2 p.37|
>  tlahcectli (tlahcectli).  tostada cosa assi  (assi is tostar mayz, vel
>   simile. en comal o en sarten). <p51-ihcequi-l2>. 71m1-201|
>
>
>
> ----- End forwarded message -----
>
>
>
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From hawatari21centuries at gmail.com  Wed Nov  2 01:06:24 2011
From: hawatari21centuries at gmail.com (SASAKI Mitsuya)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 10:06:24 +0900
Subject: ihcequi doing it=?windows-1252?Q?=92s_?=applicative thing
In-Reply-To: <CAD_TCBGpdbrj495kd8gV-YsSWeJYr-rcc+9A2_4qAPoToh8OKg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <WED.2.NOV.2011.100624.0900.HAWATARI21CENTURIES@GMAIL.COM>

Piyali Jonathan,

The example of "ihcequi" John presented from FC11 is used as an 
intransitive, though it looks like an anticausative verb, i.e. "to be 
toasted".
Here "ihcequi" is juxtaposed with "mone:loa" (to be mixed) and "moteci" 
(to be ground). "Ihcequi" here is undoubtedly intransitive, but its 
subject seems to be the thing roasted, but not the one who roast it.

The original text is:

  auh injc muchichioa in icequi, yoan moneloa chia~tzotzol: nima~ 
moteci: conj in cocoxquj.
(A&D's Translation: "And it is prepared thus: when roasted and mixed 
with wrinkled _chia_, then  it is ground. The sick one drinks it [in an 
infusion]") (FC 11, A&D p. 142)

Mitsuya SASAKI
The Department of Linguistics, the University of Tokyo
ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp

(2011/11/02 0:36), Jonathan Amith wrote:
> Dear list members,
> I was wondering if ihseki as an intransitive is documented and where.
> Best, Jonathan
> On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 9:38 AM, John Sullivan <idiez at me.com
> <mailto:idiez at me.com>> wrote:
>
>     Piyali Mitsuya,
>             Efectivamente, ihcequi tiene una forma tanto intransitiva
>     [ihcequi (ihcequi).  it toasts, it roasts. <ihcequi>. b.11 f.14
>     p.142|)]  como transitiva [ihcequi , qu- (qu-ihcequi).  they roast
>     it; they toast it. <p33- ihcequi>. b.2 f.7 p.127|].
>             Y sí, ¡qué chido!
>     John
>
>     On Nov 1, 2011, at 7:55 AM, SASAKI Mitsuya wrote:
>
>      > John,
>      >
>      > Thanks for the comment and the data.
>      > Now the only remaining problem with this construal is that we
>     have to assume two "ihcequi"'s, intransitive and transitive, like
>     "ahci(vt/vi)".
>      > Que chida academia!
>      >
>      > Mitsuya SASAKI
>      > The Department of Linguistics, the University of Tokyo
>      > ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp
>     <mailto:ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp>
>      >
>      > (2011/11/01 11:50), John Sullivan wrote:
>      >> Ok Mitsuya and demás listeros,
>      >>      Half of the temporarily constituted and soon to be
>     dissolved Nahuatl morphology academy here at Notre Dame thinks that
>     perhaps:
>      >> 1. te-, “non-specific human object” + ihcequi (intransitive),
>     “corn toasts or is toasted” + -ia (applicative) + -ya (imperfect
>     tense suffix) = teihcequiaya, “corn was toasted for people”
>      >> 2. qui, “3rd person singular specific object” + ihcequi
>     (transitive), “to toast something” + ya, (imperfect tense suffix) =
>     quihcequiya, “she was toasting it”
>      >> and the other half is reluctant to make a commitment to a firm
>     decision on the matter.
>      >> John
>      >> _______________________________________________
>      >> Nahuatl mailing list
>      >> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org <mailto:Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>
>      >> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>      >
>      > _______________________________________________
>      > Nahuatl mailing list
>      > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org <mailto:Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>
>      > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     Nahuatl mailing list
>     Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org <mailto:Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>
>     http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>
>

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From hawatari21centuries at gmail.com  Wed Nov  2 01:12:16 2011
From: hawatari21centuries at gmail.com (SASAKI Mitsuya)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 10:12:16 +0900
Subject: ihcequi doing it=?windows-1252?Q?=92s_?=applicative thing
In-Reply-To: <4BE508CF-4372-4BC9-8631-BBFDD306F570@me.com>
Message-ID: <WED.2.NOV.2011.101216.0900.HAWATARI21CENTURIES@GMAIL.COM>

Joe y demás listeros,

Thanks for the list.
For the information of other listeros, I'd like to add that the page 212 
in Andrews' book gives a list of some other examples of ambi-transitive 
verbs.

Mitsuya SASAKI
The Department of Linguistics, the University of Tokyo
ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp

(2011/11/02 1:58), John Sullivan wrote:
> Mitsuya,
>
>       On the issue of Nahuatl verbs that are both transitive and intransitive, we have others in the same category -- e.g., e:hua, chipa:hua, mela:hua:
>
>      e:hua      she arises
>     e:huac     she arose
>     que:uh    she raised it
>
>     chipa:hua   it becomes pure
>    chipa:huac  it became pure
>   quichi:pauh  he purified it
>
> Joe
>    (the other half of the soon-to-be-dissolved Nahuatl morphology academy here at Notre Dame)
>
> On Oct 31, 2011, at 10:50 PM, John Sullivan wrote:
>
>> Ok Mitsuya and demás listeros,
>> 	Half of the temporarily constituted and soon to be dissolved Nahuatl morphology academy here at Notre Dame thinks that perhaps:
>> 1. te-, “non-specific human object” + ihcequi (intransitive), “corn toasts or is toasted” + -ia (applicative) + -ya (imperfect tense suffix) = teihcequiaya, “corn was toasted for people”
>> 2. qui, “3rd person singular specific object” + ihcequi (transitive), “to toast something” + ya, (imperfect tense suffix) = quihcequiya, “she was toasting it”
>> and the other half is reluctant to make a commitment to a firm decision on the matter.
>> John
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl

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From hawatari21centuries at gmail.com  Wed Nov  2 02:59:31 2011
From: hawatari21centuries at gmail.com (SASAKI Mitsuya)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 11:59:31 +0900
Subject: ihcequi doing it=?windows-1252?Q?=92s_?=applicative thing
In-Reply-To: <CAD_TCBHjU5hduNGx=wjea880wJW04OWLBPk=8Hc2CmtfR3rmXg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <WED.2.NOV.2011.115931.0900.HAWATARI21CENTURIES@GMAIL.COM>

Jonathan,

I found your point on Sierra Norte de Puebla Nahuatl very stimulating. 
We tend to assume that causatives and passives are opposite in nature, 
but sometimes they parallel in that they imply that the denoted 
resulting event is caused by someone other than the matrix subject.

The cross-varietal typology of detransitivization will be a hot topic, 
and there should have been variety even within what's been called 
"Classical Nahuatl". Of course, we can't ignore the Spanish influence 
(e.g. Jorgé Suárez 1977) and the diachronic loss of polysynthesis.

Mitsuya SASAKI
The Department of Linguistics, the University of Tokyo
ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp

(2011/11/02 11:25), Jonathan Amith wrote:
> There is a whole lot that can be done on transitivity in Nahuatl, though
> I think that valency changes are often somewhat “language specific”
> considering that Nahuatl is a group of closely related languages with a
> shallow history. Questions of valency reduction, in particular, are not
> very well studied. And even causatives and applicatives are
> understudied, particularly in regard to semantics, as most studies are
> simply morphological in nature. For example, in the Sierra Norte de
> Puebla a causative with a nonreferential human object is used,
> basically, like a “passive” with a nonreferential agent.
>
> Nitoto:nia yehwa ika niknemilihtok nimote:ta:li:lti:ti pahti.
>
> I have a fever and that’s way I’m thinking about going to get injected
> with medicine (estoy pensando ir para que me apliquen/se me aplique
> medicina)
>
> In the one example of ihseki it is basically an anticausative, thought
> it seems like this might be the only example of this verb so used.
>
> Anyway, in terms of detransitivizing there is also a whole range of
> strategies, particularly with verbs like ihseki that imply some degree
> of agentivity.
>
> Reflexively marked:Note in Balsas Nahuatl nochi:wa, notsakwa
>
> a > i:Note in Sierra Norte de Pueblachi:wi, tsakwi
>
> use of –tok as a stative or resultative:Note in Balsas
>
> kweptok (it is different)In Sierra Norte de Puebla there is kwepi, not
> found in Balsas
>
> a:ntok it is adjoining
>
> The anticausative in the modern Nahuatl that I know, however, cannot
> express the agent obliquely whereas with the antipassive the patient can
> be obliquely expressed:
>
> nontlate:mo:s ika nowa:kax‘I will go searching the plains for my cattle’
>
> cf.nikontehte:mo:s nowa:kaxsimilar though the first example focuses more
> on the event itself.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 9:03 PM, SASAKI Mitsuya
> <hawatari21centuries at gmail.com <mailto:hawatari21centuries at gmail.com>>
> wrote:
>
>     Piyali Jonathan,
>
>     The example of "ihcequi" John presented from FC11 is used as an
>     intransitive, though it looks like an anticausative verb, i.e. "to
>     be toasted".
>     Here "ihcequi" is juxtaposed with "mone:loa" (to be mixed) and
>     "moteci" (to be ground). "Ihcequi" here is undoubtedly intransitive,
>     but its subject seems to be the thing roasted, but not the one who
>     roast it.
>
>     The original text is:
>
>       auh injc muchichioa in icequi, yoan moneloa chia~tzotzol: nima~
>     moteci: conj in cocoxquj.
>     (A&D's Translation: "And it is prepared thus: when roasted and mixed
>     with wrinkled _chia_, then  it is ground. The sick one drinks it [in
>     an infusion]") (FC 11, A&D p. 142)
>
>
>     Mitsuya SASAKI
>     The Department of Linguistics, the University of Tokyo
>     ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.__jp
>     <mailto:ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp>
>
>     (2011/11/02 0:36), Jonathan Amith wrote:
>
>         Dear list members,
>         I was wondering if ihseki as an intransitive is documented and
>         where.
>         Best, Jonathan
>         On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 9:38 AM, John Sullivan <idiez at me.com
>         <mailto:idiez at me.com>
>         <mailto:idiez at me.com <mailto:idiez at me.com>>> wrote:
>
>             Piyali Mitsuya,
>                     Efectivamente, ihcequi tiene una forma tanto
>         intransitiva
>             [ihcequi (ihcequi).  it toasts, it roasts. <ihcequi>. b.11 f.14
>             p.142|)]  como transitiva [ihcequi , qu- (qu-ihcequi).  they
>         roast
>             it; they toast it. <p33- ihcequi>. b.2 f.7 p.127|].
>                     Y sí, ¡qué chido!
>             John
>
>             On Nov 1, 2011, at 7:55 AM, SASAKI Mitsuya wrote:
>
>          > John,
>          >
>          > Thanks for the comment and the data.
>          > Now the only remaining problem with this construal is that we
>             have to assume two "ihcequi"'s, intransitive and transitive,
>         like
>         "ahci(vt/vi)".
>          > Que chida academia!
>          >
>          > Mitsuya SASAKI
>          > The Department of Linguistics, the University of Tokyo
>          > ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.__jp
>         <mailto:ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp>
>         <mailto:ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-__tokyo.ac.jp
>         <mailto:ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp>>
>
>          >
>          > (2011/11/01 11:50), John Sullivan wrote:
>          >> Ok Mitsuya and demás listeros,
>          >>      Half of the temporarily constituted and soon to be
>             dissolved Nahuatl morphology academy here at Notre Dame
>         thinks that
>             perhaps:
>          >> 1. te-, “non-specific human object” + ihcequi (intransitive),
>             “corn toasts or is toasted” + -ia (applicative) + -ya (imperfect
>             tense suffix) = teihcequiaya, “corn was toasted for people”
>          >> 2. qui, “3rd person singular specific object” + ihcequi
>             (transitive), “to toast something” + ya, (imperfect tense
>         suffix) =
>             quihcequiya, “she was toasting it”
>          >> and the other half is reluctant to make a commitment to a firm
>             decision on the matter.
>          >> John
>          >> _________________________________________________
>          >> Nahuatl mailing list
>          >> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org <mailto:Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>
>         <mailto:Nahuatl at lists.famsi.__org <mailto:Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>>
>
>          >> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/__listinfo/nahuatl
>         <http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl>
>          >
>          > _________________________________________________
>          > Nahuatl mailing list
>          > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org <mailto:Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>
>         <mailto:Nahuatl at lists.famsi.__org <mailto:Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>>
>
>          > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/__listinfo/nahuatl
>         <http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl>
>
>             _________________________________________________
>             Nahuatl mailing list
>         Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org <mailto:Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>
>         <mailto:Nahuatl at lists.famsi.__org <mailto:Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>>
>         http://www.famsi.org/mailman/__listinfo/nahuatl
>         <http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl>
>
>
>
>

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From campbel at indiana.edu  Wed Nov  2 01:04:08 2011
From: campbel at indiana.edu (Campbell, R. Joe)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 21:04:08 -0400
Subject: Fwd: ihcequi
Message-ID: <TUE.1.NOV.2011.210408.0400.CAMPBEL@INDIANA.EDU>

Jonathan,


  The following citations are from Dibble and Anderson's edition of the 
Florentine -- b. = book and p. = page.  f. = my file number.

Joe

only on

*ihcequi ***
  acocilihcequi , n- (n$acocilihcequi).  I toast shrimp. <p11-acocilin-
    ihcequi>. b.11 f.7 p.64|
  ayohhuachihcequi , n[i]- (n[i]$ayohhuachihcequi).  I parch gourd seeds
    or squash seeds. <p11-ayohtli-achtli-ihcequi>. b.11 f.27 p.288|
  ayohhuachtlahcectli (ayohhuachtlahcectli).  toasted gourd seed.
    <ayohtli-achtli-p51-ihcequi-l2>. b.10 f.4 p.68|
  ihceconi (ihceconi).  something which can be toasted. <ihcequi-lo:1-
    ni1>. b.11 f.7 p.64|
  [i]hcectli , tla- (tla$[i]hcectli).  something toasted. <p51-ihcequi-
    l2>. b.10 f.4 p.65|
  ihcectli =tla (tla[i]hcectli).  cosa tostada, assi como garuanzos,
    pepitas, cacao. &c. <p51-ihcequi-l2>. 71m2-20|
  ihcequi , m[o]- (m[o]$ihcequi).  it is roasted; it is parched; it is
    fired. <p54-ihcequi>. b.11 f.12 p.120|
  ihcequi , qu- (qu-ihcequi).  they roast it; they toast it. <p33-
    ihcequi>. b.2 f.7 p.127|
  ihcequi =nitla (nitlaihcequi).  tostar mayz, vel simile. en comal o en
    sarten. <p11-p51-ihcequi>. 71m1-201|
  ihcequi =nitla=onitlaihcec. huel. onitlahcec (ihcequi
    =nitla=onitlaihcec. huel. onitlahcec).  tostar maiz, o garuanzos en
    comalli. <p11-p51-ihcequi>. 71m2-6|


  ihcequi (ihcequi).  it toasts, it roasts. <ihcequi>. b.11 f.14 p.142|


  ihcequiya , qu- (qu$ihcequia).  she toasted it. <p33-ihcequi-ya3>. b.3
    f.2 p.31|
  ihcequiaya , te- (te$ihcequiaya).  . <p52-ihcequi-ben-ya3>. b.3 f.2 p.31|
  ihcequiz , m[o]- (m[o]$ihcequiz).  it will be roasted. <p54-ihcequi-
    z>. b.11 f.19 p.192|
  nacatlahcectli (nacatlahcectli).  roast meat. <nacatl-p51-ihcequi-l2>.
    b.8 f.2 p.37|
  tlahcectli (tlahcectli).  tostada cosa assi  (assi is tostar mayz, vel
    simile. en comal o en sarten). <p51-ihcequi-l2>. 71m1-201|



----- End forwarded message -----


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From jdanahuatl at gmail.com  Wed Nov  2 13:50:24 2011
From: jdanahuatl at gmail.com (Jonathan Amith)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 09:50:24 -0400
Subject: ihcequi doing it=?windows-1252?Q?=92s_?=applicative thing
In-Reply-To: <4EAFFFFE.30902@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <WED.2.NOV.2011.095024.0400.JDANAHUATL@GMAIL.COM>

Hi Mitsuya (is that correct),



What is your area of study. I'm sort of disconnected. In central Guerrero
there is a lot of relexification but the morphosyntax is not as affected.
In the Sierra Norte de Puebla there is a type of language ideology of
purity that leads to all sorts of calques and invented terms. Thus from
Spanish "me sale" (it turns out for me, as in "no me sale", it doesn't give
me results) SNP has ne:chki:sa ! Likewise yowi is "transitivized" as
ne:chyahki "me fue" as in "me fue bien") and tikwi is reflexively marked
though an intransitive motikwi a calque from Spanish "se prende". These are
all quite old. In Guerrero young kids start to say "nimoto:ka:"  verbal
morphology on the noun stem to:ka:- for 'me llamo'. In SNP they say
nimono:tsa.



Likewise tla-/ta- is being used differently. Young kids in Oapan say
tlakiawi (maybe a little different than kiawi indicating a place that has a
lot of rain rather than the event itself) and tlamomowi  'to be scared (in
a place). In SNP one finds mono:tsa 'it is called (person, object) and
motano:tsa 'it is called (a place such as a village)'.



Reflexively marked bodily function verbs in SNP that beging with ihC retain
or lose the /o/ of the reflexive depending on the nature of the event



ihso:ta   (never expressed without an object)

mihso:ta   'to throw up'

moihso:ta  'to throw up on oneself'

kihso:ta     'to throw up [e.g., blood]

kihso:ta    'to throw up on [e.g., a person]



Verbs that are V1/V2 with no morphological change show a lot of different
types of relations



ahsi (V1) vs. ahsi (V2) are quite different 'to arrive (there) [vs. ehko]
and 'to catch' (an object thrown, a prisoner fleeing)



posteki (V1) vs. posteki (V2) 'to break' (sth long and brittle, like a rod
or tree branch) can be a real intransitive with a patientive S of V1 but no
implied agentivity, i.e., sth can just break with no volitional agentivity.
This is what Dixon in his book on valency change refers to as
ambitransitive.



Balsas:

to:ka (V1)  vs. -to:ka  (V2)  the 'intransitive 'to:ka' has a culturally
specified meaning of 'to plant maize' and in Balsas can never take tla-
(but can take te:- with the sense of 'to bury'). In SNP one has tato:ka
with the meaning of 'to plant maize'.  In Balsas then, absence of tla- is
culturally specific. Tuggy has talked about tla- as culturally specified
object (e.g., in Balsas o:tlapilo:to is understood outside of any defining
context as 'he went to fish (hanging lines from stakes in the river) and
there is some literature on the culturally specific meaning of these types
of "antipassives" Thus English 'I am eating' has a culturally specified
meaning of "a meal"



ihseki (V1) vs. ihseki  (V2) this is more the case, as you note, of an
implied agent. In Nahuatl agents of passives can never be expressed
obliquely (whereas objects of antipassives can be! at least in Balsas, with
ika). So I am not sure whether one is best to characterize this an an
anticausative or an agentless passive. Any thoughts?  It is different from
the case in posteki as ihseki can never occur without human intervention.
In a way it is like SNP chi:wi though without the morphological derivation.



Amberber in the book by Dixon and Aikhenvald notes, p. 315: "If an event
encoded by a transitive predicate can be conceptualized as taking place
without the intervention of an external causer, the event can be cast in
the anticausative"  Since ihseki cannot occur in this manner, then perhaps
your use of anticausative is different than that implied by Amberber (and
Levin and Rappaport, whom he cites).



Cf. notsakwa in Balsas. It can be passive or anticausative

niman notsakwas ka:mpa o:timotek 'the place/cut where you cut yourself will
heal (close up) rapidly'   No agent

ma notsakwa  'let it be closed' (a door, e.g, a group of people is leaving
and I say ma notsakwa as a suggestion about the door or window but without
an overtly expressed agent)

On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 10:19 AM, SASAKI Mitsuya <
hawatari21centuries at gmail.com> wrote:

> John,
>
> Es increíble qué rápido encuentras los buenos ejemplos.
> Entonces, quizás podemos decir que ihcequi tenía dos estructuras
> argumentales distintas. No sabía que este tema era tan interesante.
>
>
> Mitsuya SASAKI
> The Department of Linguistics, the University of Tokyo
> ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.**jp <ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp>
>
> (2011/11/01 22:38), John Sullivan wrote:
>
>> Piyali Mitsuya,
>>        Efectivamente, ihcequi tiene una forma tanto intransitiva [ihcequi
>> (ihcequi).  it toasts, it roasts.<ihcequi>. b.11 f.14 p.142|)]  como
>> transitiva [ihcequi , qu- (qu-ihcequi).  they roast it; they toast it.<p33-
>> ihcequi>. b.2 f.7 p.127|].
>>        Y sí, ¡qué chido!
>> John
>>
>> On Nov 1, 2011, at 7:55 AM, SASAKI Mitsuya wrote:
>>
>>  John,
>>>
>>> Thanks for the comment and the data.
>>> Now the only remaining problem with this construal is that we have to
>>> assume two "ihcequi"'s, intransitive and transitive, like "ahci(vt/vi)".
>>> Que chida academia!
>>>
>>> Mitsuya SASAKI
>>> The Department of Linguistics, the University of Tokyo
>>> ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.**jp <ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp>
>>>
>>> (2011/11/01 11:50), John Sullivan wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ok Mitsuya and demás listeros,
>>>>        Half of the temporarily constituted and soon to be dissolved
>>>> Nahuatl morphology academy here at Notre Dame thinks that perhaps:
>>>> 1. te-, “non-specific human object” + ihcequi (intransitive), “corn
>>>> toasts or is toasted” + -ia (applicative) + -ya (imperfect tense suffix) =
>>>> teihcequiaya, “corn was toasted for people”
>>>> 2. qui, “3rd person singular specific object” + ihcequi (transitive),
>>>> “to toast something” + ya, (imperfect tense suffix) = quihcequiya, “she was
>>>> toasting it”
>>>> and the other half is reluctant to make a commitment to a firm decision
>>>> on the matter.
>>>> John
>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>> Nahuatl mailing list
>>>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>>>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/**listinfo/nahuatl<http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl>
>>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>> Nahuatl mailing list
>>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/**listinfo/nahuatl<http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl>
>>>
>>
>>
> ______________________________**_________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/**listinfo/nahuatl<http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl>
>
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From hawatari21centuries at gmail.com  Wed Nov  2 17:01:11 2011
From: hawatari21centuries at gmail.com (SASAKI Mitsuya)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 02:01:11 +0900
Subject: ihcequi doing it=?windows-1252?Q?=92s_?=applicative thing
In-Reply-To: <CAD_TCBEeUV5o+=4pfrkpDPgX5iKbmxh20349iYKXvoGj02b64A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <THU.3.NOV.2011.020111.0900.HAWATARI21CENTURIES@GMAIL.COM>

Jonathan,

Thanks. Your point made me realize that I was quite unconscious about 
the difference between the two, the anticausative and the agentless passive.

Among the various kinds of V1/V2 relations you illustrated, the relation 
between ihseki(Vt)/ihseki(Vi) looks similar to, as you noted, those in 
the Balsas examples of TLA-less intransitivization, with backgrounded 
(perhaps culturally specified) agent.

Maybe corresponding to this, Molina's dictionary has hui:tecqui "one who 
beats" (from hui:tequi "to beat, azotar") for the translation of 
"herido", as if hui:tequi were an intransitive verb "to be beaten", but 
I'm not sure if I can say this is another example of ihcequi-type V1/V2 
alternation.

Mitsuya SASAKI
The Department of Linguistics, the University of Tokyo
ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp

(As for me I should confess that I've only dealt with Classical Nahuatl 
data so far, and now am trying to get in touch with a modern speaker...)

(2011/11/02 22:50), Jonathan Amith wrote:
> Hi Mitsuya (is that correct),
>
> What is your area of study. I'm sort of disconnected. In central
> Guerrero there is a lot of relexification but the morphosyntax is not as
> affected. In the Sierra Norte de Puebla there is a type of language
> ideology of purity that leads to all sorts of calques and invented
> terms. Thus from Spanish "me sale" (it turns out for me, as in "no me
> sale", it doesn't give me results) SNP has ne:chki:sa ! Likewise yowi is
> "transitivized" as ne:chyahki "me fue" as in "me fue bien") and tikwi is
> reflexively marked though an intransitive motikwi a calque from Spanish
> "se prende". These are all quite old. In Guerrero young kids start to
> say "nimoto:ka:"  verbal morphology on the noun stem to:ka:- for 'me
> llamo'. In SNP they say nimono:tsa.
>
> Likewise tla-/ta- is being used differently. Young kids in Oapan say
> tlakiawi (maybe a little different than kiawi indicating a place that
> has a lot of rain rather than the event itself) and tlamomowi 'to be
> scared (in a place). In SNP one finds mono:tsa 'it is called (person,
> object) and motano:tsa 'it is called (a place such as a village)'.
>
> Reflexively marked bodily function verbs in SNP that beging with ihC
> retain or lose the /o/ of the reflexive depending on the nature of the event
>
> ihso:ta   (never expressed without an object)
>
> mihso:ta 'to throw up'
>
> moihso:ta 'to throw up on oneself'
>
> kihso:ta 'to throw up [e.g., blood]
>
> kihso:ta 'to throw up on [e.g., a person]
>
> Verbs that are V1/V2 with no morphological change show a lot of
> different types of relations
>
> ahsi (V1) vs. ahsi (V2) are quite different 'to arrive (there) [vs.
> ehko] and 'to catch' (an object thrown, a prisoner fleeing)
>
> posteki (V1) vs. posteki (V2) 'to break' (sth long and brittle, like a
> rod or tree branch) can be a real intransitive with a patientive S of V1
> but no implied agentivity, i.e., sth can just break with no volitional
> agentivity. This is what Dixon in his book on valency change refers to
> as ambitransitive.
>
> Balsas:
>
> to:ka (V1)  vs. -to:ka  (V2)  the 'intransitive 'to:ka' has a culturally
> specified meaning of 'to plant maize' and in Balsas can never take tla-
> (but can take te:- with the sense of 'to bury'). In SNP one has tato:ka
> with the meaning of 'to plant maize'.  In Balsas then, absence of tla-
> is culturally specific. Tuggy has talked about tla- as culturally
> specified object (e.g., in Balsas o:tlapilo:to is understood outside of
> any defining context as 'he went to fish (hanging lines from stakes in
> the river) and there is some literature on the culturally specific
> meaning of these types of "antipassives" Thus English 'I am eating' has
> a culturally specified meaning of "a meal"
>
> ihseki (V1) vs. ihseki  (V2) this is more the case, as you note, of an
> implied agent. In Nahuatl agents of passives can never be expressed
> obliquely (whereas objects of antipassives can be! at least in Balsas,
> with ika). So I am not sure whether one is best to characterize this an
> an anticausative or an agentless passive. Any thoughts?  It is different
> from the case in posteki as ihseki can never occur without human
> intervention. In a way it is like SNP chi:wi though without the
> morphological derivation.
>
> Amberber in the book by Dixon and Aikhenvald notes, p. 315: "If an event
> encoded by a transitive predicate can be conceptualized as taking place
> without the intervention of an external causer, the event can be cast in
> the anticausative"  Since ihseki cannot occur in this manner, then
> perhaps your use of anticausative is different than that implied by
> Amberber (and Levin and Rappaport, whom he cites).
>
> Cf. notsakwa in Balsas. It can be passive or anticausative
>
> niman notsakwas ka:mpa o:timotek 'the place/cut where you cut yourself
> will heal (close up) rapidly'   No agent
>
> ma notsakwa 'let it be closed' (a door, e.g, a group of people is
> leaving and I say ma notsakwa as a suggestion about the door or window
> but without an overtly expressed agent)
>
> On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 10:19 AM, SASAKI Mitsuya
> <hawatari21centuries at gmail.com <mailto:hawatari21centuries at gmail.com>>
> wrote:
>
>     John,
>
>     Es increíble qué rápido encuentras los buenos ejemplos.
>     Entonces, quizás podemos decir que ihcequi tenía dos estructuras
>     argumentales distintas. No sabía que este tema era tan interesante.
>
>
>     Mitsuya SASAKI
>     The Department of Linguistics, the University of Tokyo
>     ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.__jp
>     <mailto:ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp>
>
>     (2011/11/01 22:38), John Sullivan wrote:
>
>         Piyali Mitsuya,
>                 Efectivamente, ihcequi tiene una forma tanto
>         intransitiva [ihcequi (ihcequi).  it toasts, it
>         roasts.<ihcequi>. b.11 f.14 p.142|)]  como transitiva [ihcequi ,
>         qu- (qu-ihcequi).  they roast it; they toast it.<p33- ihcequi>.
>         b.2 f.7 p.127|].
>                 Y sí, ¡qué chido!
>         John
>
>         On Nov 1, 2011, at 7:55 AM, SASAKI Mitsuya wrote:
>
>             John,
>
>             Thanks for the comment and the data.
>             Now the only remaining problem with this construal is that
>             we have to assume two "ihcequi"'s, intransitive and
>             transitive, like "ahci(vt/vi)".
>             Que chida academia!
>
>             Mitsuya SASAKI
>             The Department of Linguistics, the University of Tokyo
>             ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.__jp
>             <mailto:ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp>
>
>             (2011/11/01 11:50), John Sullivan wrote:
>
>                 Ok Mitsuya and demás listeros,
>                         Half of the temporarily constituted and soon to
>                 be dissolved Nahuatl morphology academy here at Notre
>                 Dame thinks that perhaps:
>                 1. te-, “non-specific human object” + ihcequi
>                 (intransitive), “corn toasts or is toasted” + -ia
>                 (applicative) + -ya (imperfect tense suffix) =
>                 teihcequiaya, “corn was toasted for people”
>                 2. qui, “3rd person singular specific object” + ihcequi
>                 (transitive), “to toast something” + ya, (imperfect
>                 tense suffix) = quihcequiya, “she was toasting it”
>                 and the other half is reluctant to make a commitment to
>                 a firm decision on the matter.
>                 John
>                 _________________________________________________
>                 Nahuatl mailing list
>                 Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org <mailto:Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>
>                 http://www.famsi.org/mailman/__listinfo/nahuatl
>                 <http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl>
>
>
>             _________________________________________________
>             Nahuatl mailing list
>             Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org <mailto:Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>
>             http://www.famsi.org/mailman/__listinfo/nahuatl
>             <http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl>
>
>
>
>     _________________________________________________
>     Nahuatl mailing list
>     Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org <mailto:Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>
>     http://www.famsi.org/mailman/__listinfo/nahuatl
>     <http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl>
>
>

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From jdanahuatl at gmail.com  Wed Nov  2 17:37:30 2011
From: jdanahuatl at gmail.com (Jonathan Amith)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 13:37:30 -0400
Subject: ihcequi doing it=?windows-1252?Q?=92s_?=applicative thing
In-Reply-To: <4EB17757.40203@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <WED.2.NOV.2011.133730.0400.JDANAHUATL@GMAIL.COM>

Hi,

I couldn't find uitecqui in my version of Molina. Rémi Siméon has uitecqui
as "golpeado, fustigado, corregido, castigado" and has uitequi as a
transitive.

There are some transitives nominalized without object slots filled by a
nonreferential (te:-, tla-, ne-), though perhaps there are other analyses.

Thus ti:tlantli (cf. ti:tlani; though the passive would seem to be ti:tlano
and an alternative is ti:tlanoni 'mensajero').

Also ichtecqui "ladrón", which may follow a pattern of wi:tequi.  RS lists
ichtequi as both intransitive and transitive. Note RS's applicative form,
used reflexively as 'convertirse en ladrón'.
There are other verbs that have unusual transitivity patterns, e.g, mati.

best, jonathan
On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 1:01 PM, SASAKI Mitsuya <
hawatari21centuries at gmail.com> wrote:

> Jonathan,
>
> Thanks. Your point made me realize that I was quite unconscious about the
> difference between the two, the anticausative and the agentless passive.
>
> Among the various kinds of V1/V2 relations you illustrated, the relation
> between ihseki(Vt)/ihseki(Vi) looks similar to, as you noted, those in the
> Balsas examples of TLA-less intransitivization, with backgrounded (perhaps
> culturally specified) agent.
>
> Maybe corresponding to this, Molina's dictionary has hui:tecqui "one who
> beats" (from hui:tequi "to beat, azotar") for the translation of "herido",
> as if hui:tequi were an intransitive verb "to be beaten", but I'm not sure
> if I can say this is another example of ihcequi-type V1/V2 alternation.
>
>
> Mitsuya SASAKI
> The Department of Linguistics, the University of Tokyo
> ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.**jp <ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp>
>
> (As for me I should confess that I've only dealt with Classical Nahuatl
> data so far, and now am trying to get in touch with a modern speaker...)
>
>
> (2011/11/02 22:50), Jonathan Amith wrote:
>
>> Hi Mitsuya (is that correct),
>>
>> What is your area of study. I'm sort of disconnected. In central
>> Guerrero there is a lot of relexification but the morphosyntax is not as
>> affected. In the Sierra Norte de Puebla there is a type of language
>> ideology of purity that leads to all sorts of calques and invented
>> terms. Thus from Spanish "me sale" (it turns out for me, as in "no me
>> sale", it doesn't give me results) SNP has ne:chki:sa ! Likewise yowi is
>> "transitivized" as ne:chyahki "me fue" as in "me fue bien") and tikwi is
>> reflexively marked though an intransitive motikwi a calque from Spanish
>> "se prende". These are all quite old. In Guerrero young kids start to
>> say "nimoto:ka:"  verbal morphology on the noun stem to:ka:- for 'me
>> llamo'. In SNP they say nimono:tsa.
>>
>> Likewise tla-/ta- is being used differently. Young kids in Oapan say
>> tlakiawi (maybe a little different than kiawi indicating a place that
>> has a lot of rain rather than the event itself) and tlamomowi 'to be
>> scared (in a place). In SNP one finds mono:tsa 'it is called (person,
>> object) and motano:tsa 'it is called (a place such as a village)'.
>>
>> Reflexively marked bodily function verbs in SNP that beging with ihC
>> retain or lose the /o/ of the reflexive depending on the nature of the
>> event
>>
>> ihso:ta   (never expressed without an object)
>>
>> mihso:ta 'to throw up'
>>
>> moihso:ta 'to throw up on oneself'
>>
>> kihso:ta 'to throw up [e.g., blood]
>>
>> kihso:ta 'to throw up on [e.g., a person]
>>
>> Verbs that are V1/V2 with no morphological change show a lot of
>> different types of relations
>>
>> ahsi (V1) vs. ahsi (V2) are quite different 'to arrive (there) [vs.
>> ehko] and 'to catch' (an object thrown, a prisoner fleeing)
>>
>> posteki (V1) vs. posteki (V2) 'to break' (sth long and brittle, like a
>> rod or tree branch) can be a real intransitive with a patientive S of V1
>> but no implied agentivity, i.e., sth can just break with no volitional
>> agentivity. This is what Dixon in his book on valency change refers to
>> as ambitransitive.
>>
>> Balsas:
>>
>> to:ka (V1)  vs. -to:ka  (V2)  the 'intransitive 'to:ka' has a culturally
>> specified meaning of 'to plant maize' and in Balsas can never take tla-
>> (but can take te:- with the sense of 'to bury'). In SNP one has tato:ka
>> with the meaning of 'to plant maize'.  In Balsas then, absence of tla-
>> is culturally specific. Tuggy has talked about tla- as culturally
>> specified object (e.g., in Balsas o:tlapilo:to is understood outside of
>> any defining context as 'he went to fish (hanging lines from stakes in
>> the river) and there is some literature on the culturally specific
>> meaning of these types of "antipassives" Thus English 'I am eating' has
>> a culturally specified meaning of "a meal"
>>
>> ihseki (V1) vs. ihseki  (V2) this is more the case, as you note, of an
>> implied agent. In Nahuatl agents of passives can never be expressed
>> obliquely (whereas objects of antipassives can be! at least in Balsas,
>> with ika). So I am not sure whether one is best to characterize this an
>> an anticausative or an agentless passive. Any thoughts?  It is different
>> from the case in posteki as ihseki can never occur without human
>> intervention. In a way it is like SNP chi:wi though without the
>> morphological derivation.
>>
>> Amberber in the book by Dixon and Aikhenvald notes, p. 315: "If an event
>> encoded by a transitive predicate can be conceptualized as taking place
>> without the intervention of an external causer, the event can be cast in
>> the anticausative"  Since ihseki cannot occur in this manner, then
>> perhaps your use of anticausative is different than that implied by
>> Amberber (and Levin and Rappaport, whom he cites).
>>
>> Cf. notsakwa in Balsas. It can be passive or anticausative
>>
>> niman notsakwas ka:mpa o:timotek 'the place/cut where you cut yourself
>> will heal (close up) rapidly'   No agent
>>
>> ma notsakwa 'let it be closed' (a door, e.g, a group of people is
>> leaving and I say ma notsakwa as a suggestion about the door or window
>> but without an overtly expressed agent)
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 10:19 AM, SASAKI Mitsuya
>> <hawatari21centuries at gmail.com <mailto:hawatari21centuries@**gmail.com<hawatari21centuries at gmail.com>
>> >>
>>
>> wrote:
>>
>>    John,
>>
>>    Es increíble qué rápido encuentras los buenos ejemplos.
>>    Entonces, quizás podemos decir que ihcequi tenía dos estructuras
>>    argumentales distintas. No sabía que este tema era tan interesante.
>>
>>
>>    Mitsuya SASAKI
>>    The Department of Linguistics, the University of Tokyo
>>    ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac._**_jp
>>    <mailto:ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-**tokyo.ac.jp<ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp>
>> >
>>
>>
>>    (2011/11/01 22:38), John Sullivan wrote:
>>
>>        Piyali Mitsuya,
>>                Efectivamente, ihcequi tiene una forma tanto
>>        intransitiva [ihcequi (ihcequi).  it toasts, it
>>        roasts.<ihcequi>. b.11 f.14 p.142|)]  como transitiva [ihcequi ,
>>        qu- (qu-ihcequi).  they roast it; they toast it.<p33- ihcequi>.
>>        b.2 f.7 p.127|].
>>                Y sí, ¡qué chido!
>>        John
>>
>>        On Nov 1, 2011, at 7:55 AM, SASAKI Mitsuya wrote:
>>
>>            John,
>>
>>            Thanks for the comment and the data.
>>            Now the only remaining problem with this construal is that
>>            we have to assume two "ihcequi"'s, intransitive and
>>            transitive, like "ahci(vt/vi)".
>>            Que chida academia!
>>
>>            Mitsuya SASAKI
>>            The Department of Linguistics, the University of Tokyo
>>            ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac._**_jp
>>            <mailto:ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-**tokyo.ac.jp<ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp>
>> >
>>
>>
>>            (2011/11/01 11:50), John Sullivan wrote:
>>
>>                Ok Mitsuya and demás listeros,
>>                        Half of the temporarily constituted and soon to
>>                be dissolved Nahuatl morphology academy here at Notre
>>                Dame thinks that perhaps:
>>                1. te-, “non-specific human object” + ihcequi
>>                (intransitive), “corn toasts or is toasted” + -ia
>>                (applicative) + -ya (imperfect tense suffix) =
>>                teihcequiaya, “corn was toasted for people”
>>                2. qui, “3rd person singular specific object” + ihcequi
>>                (transitive), “to toast something” + ya, (imperfect
>>                tense suffix) = quihcequiya, “she was toasting it”
>>                and the other half is reluctant to make a commitment to
>>                a firm decision on the matter.
>>                John
>>                ______________________________**___________________
>>                Nahuatl mailing list
>>                Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org <mailto:Nahuatl at lists.famsi.**org<Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>
>> >
>>                http://www.famsi.org/mailman/_**_listinfo/nahuatl<http://www.famsi.org/mailman/__listinfo/nahuatl>
>>                <http://www.famsi.org/mailman/**listinfo/nahuatl<http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl>
>> >
>>
>>
>>            ______________________________**___________________
>>            Nahuatl mailing list
>>            Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org <mailto:Nahuatl at lists.famsi.**org<Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>
>> >
>>            http://www.famsi.org/mailman/_**_listinfo/nahuatl<http://www.famsi.org/mailman/__listinfo/nahuatl>
>>            <http://www.famsi.org/mailman/**listinfo/nahuatl<http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl>
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>    ______________________________**___________________
>>    Nahuatl mailing list
>>    Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org <mailto:Nahuatl at lists.famsi.**org<Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>
>> >
>>    http://www.famsi.org/mailman/_**_listinfo/nahuatl<http://www.famsi.org/mailman/__listinfo/nahuatl>
>>    <http://www.famsi.org/mailman/**listinfo/nahuatl<http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl>
>> >
>>
>>
>>
> ______________________________**_________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/**listinfo/nahuatl<http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl>
>
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From schwallr at potsdam.edu  Wed Nov  2 18:05:00 2011
From: schwallr at potsdam.edu (John F. Schwaller)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 14:05:00 -0400
Subject: ihcequi doing it=?windows-1252?Q?=92s_?=applicative thing
In-Reply-To: <CAD_TCBEsuVvgLjQ7x8MKk+1eNgNU050_mAEPVdHYxbY+gCzpjg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <WED.2.NOV.2011.140500.0400.SCHWALLR@POTSDAM.EDU>

Could it possibly be lurking as uiuitequi - nite - apalear a otro  ??? f. 158 of 
Molina

On 11/2/2011 1:37 PM, Jonathan Amith wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I couldn't find uitecqui in my version of Molina. Rémi Siméon has uitecqui
> as "golpeado, fustigado, corregido, castigado" and has uitequi as a
> transitive.
>

-- 
*****************************
John F. Schwaller
President
SUNY - Potsdam
44 Pierrepont Ave.
Potsdam, NY  13676
Tel. 315-267-2100
FAX 315-267-2496

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From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx  Wed Nov  2 18:11:32 2011
From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 12:11:32 -0600
Subject: ihcequi doing it's applicative thing
In-Reply-To: <4BE508CF-4372-4BC9-8631-BBFDD306F570@me.com>
Message-ID: <WED.2.NOV.2011.121132.0600.DCWRIGHT@PRODIGY.NET.MX>

Greetings, all.

I was looking at a similar case with my students the day before yesterday,
chica:hua (long vowel courtesy of Frances Karttunen's dictionary), and was
wondering why the intransitive and transitive forms have different preterite
forms (intransitive with the preterite suffix -c, transitive with loss of
final vowel). In effect, the intransitive variant is a class 1 verb, while
the transitive variant is class 2. The following entries are from Molina's
*Vocabulario en lengua mexicana y castellana*. As you can see, chica:hua
follows exactly the same pattern as e:hua and chipa:hua.

"Chicaua. ni. arreziar o tomar fuerças, o hazerse viejo el hombre o la
bestia. pret[érito]. onichicauac.

"Chicaua. nitla. fortalecer o guarnecer algo, y esforçar y animar.
pre[térito]. onitlachicauh.

"Chicaua. nite. esforçar a otro. pr[etérito] onitechicauh."

Best regards,

David

-----Mensaje original-----
De: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org [mailto:nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org]
En nombre de John Sullivan
Enviado el: martes, 01 de noviembre de 2011 10:59
Para: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
Asunto: Re: [Nahuat-l] ihcequi doing it’s applicative thing

Mitsuya,

     On the issue of Nahuatl verbs that are both transitive and
intransitive, we have others in the same category -- e.g., e:hua, chipa:hua,
mela:hua:

    e:hua      she arises
   e:huac     she arose
   que:uh    she raised it

   chipa:hua   it becomes pure
  chipa:huac  it became pure
 quichi:pauh  he purified it

Joe
  (the other half of the soon-to-be-dissolved Nahuatl morphology academy
here at Notre Dame) 

[...]

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From clayton at indiana.edu  Wed Nov  2 18:33:49 2011
From: clayton at indiana.edu (Clayton, Mary L.)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 14:33:49 -0400
Subject: ihcequi doing it?s applicative thing
In-Reply-To: <CAD_TCBEsuVvgLjQ7x8MKk+1eNgNU050_mAEPVdHYxbY+gCzpjg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <WED.2.NOV.2011.143349.0400.CLAYTON@INDIANA.EDU>

Hello All,
     Vitecqui appears as a Nahuatl equivalent of Herido in Molina 1555 
folio 138v and in the first half of 1571 folio 70v2.

    Mary

Quoting Jonathan Amith <jdanahuatl at gmail.com>:

> Hi,
>
> I couldn't find uitecqui in my version of Molina. Rémi Siméon has uitecqui
> as "golpeado, fustigado, corregido, castigado" and has uitequi as a
> transitive.
>
> There are some transitives nominalized without object slots filled by a
> nonreferential (te:-, tla-, ne-), though perhaps there are other analyses.
>
> Thus ti:tlantli (cf. ti:tlani; though the passive would seem to be ti:tlano
> and an alternative is ti:tlanoni 'mensajero').
>
> Also ichtecqui "ladrón", which may follow a pattern of wi:tequi.  RS lists
> ichtequi as both intransitive and transitive. Note RS's applicative form,
> used reflexively as 'convertirse en ladrón'.
> There are other verbs that have unusual transitivity patterns, e.g, mati.
>
> best, jonathan
> On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 1:01 PM, SASAKI Mitsuya <
> hawatari21centuries at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Jonathan,
>>
>> Thanks. Your point made me realize that I was quite unconscious about the
>> difference between the two, the anticausative and the agentless passive.
>>
>> Among the various kinds of V1/V2 relations you illustrated, the relation
>> between ihseki(Vt)/ihseki(Vi) looks similar to, as you noted, those in the
>> Balsas examples of TLA-less intransitivization, with backgrounded (perhaps
>> culturally specified) agent.
>>
>> Maybe corresponding to this, Molina's dictionary has hui:tecqui "one who
>> beats" (from hui:tequi "to beat, azotar") for the translation of "herido",
>> as if hui:tequi were an intransitive verb "to be beaten", but I'm not sure
>> if I can say this is another example of ihcequi-type V1/V2 alternation.
>>
>>
>> Mitsuya SASAKI
>> The Department of Linguistics, the University of Tokyo
>> ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.**jp <ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp>
>>
>> (As for me I should confess that I've only dealt with Classical Nahuatl
>> data so far, and now am trying to get in touch with a modern speaker...)
>>
>>
>> (2011/11/02 22:50), Jonathan Amith wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Mitsuya (is that correct),
>>>
>>> What is your area of study. I'm sort of disconnected. In central
>>> Guerrero there is a lot of relexification but the morphosyntax is not as
>>> affected. In the Sierra Norte de Puebla there is a type of language
>>> ideology of purity that leads to all sorts of calques and invented
>>> terms. Thus from Spanish "me sale" (it turns out for me, as in "no me
>>> sale", it doesn't give me results) SNP has ne:chki:sa ! Likewise yowi is
>>> "transitivized" as ne:chyahki "me fue" as in "me fue bien") and tikwi is
>>> reflexively marked though an intransitive motikwi a calque from Spanish
>>> "se prende". These are all quite old. In Guerrero young kids start to
>>> say "nimoto:ka:"  verbal morphology on the noun stem to:ka:- for 'me
>>> llamo'. In SNP they say nimono:tsa.
>>>
>>> Likewise tla-/ta- is being used differently. Young kids in Oapan say
>>> tlakiawi (maybe a little different than kiawi indicating a place that
>>> has a lot of rain rather than the event itself) and tlamomowi 'to be
>>> scared (in a place). In SNP one finds mono:tsa 'it is called (person,
>>> object) and motano:tsa 'it is called (a place such as a village)'.
>>>
>>> Reflexively marked bodily function verbs in SNP that beging with ihC
>>> retain or lose the /o/ of the reflexive depending on the nature of the
>>> event
>>>
>>> ihso:ta   (never expressed without an object)
>>>
>>> mihso:ta 'to throw up'
>>>
>>> moihso:ta 'to throw up on oneself'
>>>
>>> kihso:ta 'to throw up [e.g., blood]
>>>
>>> kihso:ta 'to throw up on [e.g., a person]
>>>
>>> Verbs that are V1/V2 with no morphological change show a lot of
>>> different types of relations
>>>
>>> ahsi (V1) vs. ahsi (V2) are quite different 'to arrive (there) [vs.
>>> ehko] and 'to catch' (an object thrown, a prisoner fleeing)
>>>
>>> posteki (V1) vs. posteki (V2) 'to break' (sth long and brittle, like a
>>> rod or tree branch) can be a real intransitive with a patientive S of V1
>>> but no implied agentivity, i.e., sth can just break with no volitional
>>> agentivity. This is what Dixon in his book on valency change refers to
>>> as ambitransitive.
>>>
>>> Balsas:
>>>
>>> to:ka (V1)  vs. -to:ka  (V2)  the 'intransitive 'to:ka' has a culturally
>>> specified meaning of 'to plant maize' and in Balsas can never take tla-
>>> (but can take te:- with the sense of 'to bury'). In SNP one has tato:ka
>>> with the meaning of 'to plant maize'.  In Balsas then, absence of tla-
>>> is culturally specific. Tuggy has talked about tla- as culturally
>>> specified object (e.g., in Balsas o:tlapilo:to is understood outside of
>>> any defining context as 'he went to fish (hanging lines from stakes in
>>> the river) and there is some literature on the culturally specific
>>> meaning of these types of "antipassives" Thus English 'I am eating' has
>>> a culturally specified meaning of "a meal"
>>>
>>> ihseki (V1) vs. ihseki  (V2) this is more the case, as you note, of an
>>> implied agent. In Nahuatl agents of passives can never be expressed
>>> obliquely (whereas objects of antipassives can be! at least in Balsas,
>>> with ika). So I am not sure whether one is best to characterize this an
>>> an anticausative or an agentless passive. Any thoughts?  It is different
>>> from the case in posteki as ihseki can never occur without human
>>> intervention. In a way it is like SNP chi:wi though without the
>>> morphological derivation.
>>>
>>> Amberber in the book by Dixon and Aikhenvald notes, p. 315: "If an event
>>> encoded by a transitive predicate can be conceptualized as taking place
>>> without the intervention of an external causer, the event can be cast in
>>> the anticausative"  Since ihseki cannot occur in this manner, then
>>> perhaps your use of anticausative is different than that implied by
>>> Amberber (and Levin and Rappaport, whom he cites).
>>>
>>> Cf. notsakwa in Balsas. It can be passive or anticausative
>>>
>>> niman notsakwas ka:mpa o:timotek 'the place/cut where you cut yourself
>>> will heal (close up) rapidly'   No agent
>>>
>>> ma notsakwa 'let it be closed' (a door, e.g, a group of people is
>>> leaving and I say ma notsakwa as a suggestion about the door or window
>>> but without an overtly expressed agent)
>>>
>>> On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 10:19 AM, SASAKI Mitsuya
>>> <hawatari21centuries at gmail.com
>>> <mailto:hawatari21centuries@**gmail.com<hawatari21centuries at gmail.com>
>>> >>
>>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>    John,
>>>
>>>    Es increíble qué rápido encuentras los buenos ejemplos.
>>>    Entonces, quizás podemos decir que ihcequi tenía dos estructuras
>>>    argumentales distintas. No sabía que este tema era tan interesante.
>>>
>>>
>>>    Mitsuya SASAKI
>>>    The Department of Linguistics, the University of Tokyo
>>>    ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac._**_jp
>>>
>>> <mailto:ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-**tokyo.ac.jp<ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp>
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>    (2011/11/01 22:38), John Sullivan wrote:
>>>
>>>        Piyali Mitsuya,
>>>                Efectivamente, ihcequi tiene una forma tanto
>>>        intransitiva [ihcequi (ihcequi).  it toasts, it
>>>        roasts.<ihcequi>. b.11 f.14 p.142|)]  como transitiva [ihcequi ,
>>>        qu- (qu-ihcequi).  they roast it; they toast it.<p33- ihcequi>.
>>>        b.2 f.7 p.127|].
>>>                Y sí, ¡qué chido!
>>>        John
>>>
>>>        On Nov 1, 2011, at 7:55 AM, SASAKI Mitsuya wrote:
>>>
>>>            John,
>>>
>>>            Thanks for the comment and the data.
>>>            Now the only remaining problem with this construal is that
>>>            we have to assume two "ihcequi"'s, intransitive and
>>>            transitive, like "ahci(vt/vi)".
>>>            Que chida academia!
>>>
>>>            Mitsuya SASAKI
>>>            The Department of Linguistics, the University of Tokyo
>>>            ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac._**_jp
>>>
>>> <mailto:ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-**tokyo.ac.jp<ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp>
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>            (2011/11/01 11:50), John Sullivan wrote:
>>>
>>>                Ok Mitsuya and demás listeros,
>>>                        Half of the temporarily constituted and soon to
>>>                be dissolved Nahuatl morphology academy here at Notre
>>>                Dame thinks that perhaps:
>>>                1. te-, ?non-specific human object? + ihcequi
>>>                (intransitive), ?corn toasts or is toasted? + -ia
>>>                (applicative) + -ya (imperfect tense suffix) =
>>>                teihcequiaya, ?corn was toasted for people?
>>>                2. qui, ?3rd person singular specific object? + ihcequi
>>>                (transitive), ?to toast something? + ya, (imperfect
>>>                tense suffix) = quihcequiya, ?she was toasting it?
>>>                and the other half is reluctant to make a commitment to
>>>                a firm decision on the matter.
>>>                John
>>>                ______________________________**___________________
>>>                Nahuatl mailing list
>>>                Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>>> <mailto:Nahuatl at lists.famsi.**org<Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>
>>> >
>>>
>>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/_**_listinfo/nahuatl<http://www.famsi.org/mailman/__listinfo/nahuatl>
>>>
>>> <http://www.famsi.org/mailman/**listinfo/nahuatl<http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl>
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>            ______________________________**___________________
>>>            Nahuatl mailing list
>>>            Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>>> <mailto:Nahuatl at lists.famsi.**org<Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>
>>> >
>>>
>>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/_**_listinfo/nahuatl<http://www.famsi.org/mailman/__listinfo/nahuatl>
>>>
>>> <http://www.famsi.org/mailman/**listinfo/nahuatl<http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl>
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>    ______________________________**___________________
>>>    Nahuatl mailing list
>>>    Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>>> <mailto:Nahuatl at lists.famsi.**org<Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>
>>> >
>>>
>>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/_**_listinfo/nahuatl<http://www.famsi.org/mailman/__listinfo/nahuatl>
>>>
>>> <http://www.famsi.org/mailman/**listinfo/nahuatl<http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl>
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> ______________________________**_________________
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From jdanahuatl at gmail.com  Wed Nov  2 20:21:41 2011
From: jdanahuatl at gmail.com (Jonathan Amith)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 16:21:41 -0400
Subject: ihcequi doing it=?windows-1252?Q?=92s_?=applicative thing
In-Reply-To: <4EB1864C.7050303@potsdam.edu>
Message-ID: <WED.2.NOV.2011.162141.0400.JDANAHUATL@GMAIL.COM>

Yes, that is there, but he mentioned a deverbal form uitecqui, which is
what I can't find.

On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 2:05 PM, John F. Schwaller <schwallr at potsdam.edu>wrote:

> Could it possibly be lurking as uiuitequi - nite - apalear a otro  ??? f.
> 158 of Molina
>
>
> On 11/2/2011 1:37 PM, Jonathan Amith wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I couldn't find uitecqui in my version of Molina. Rémi Siméon has uitecqui
>> as "golpeado, fustigado, corregido, castigado" and has uitequi as a
>> transitive.
>>
>>
> --
> *****************************
> John F. Schwaller
> President
> SUNY - Potsdam
> 44 Pierrepont Ave.
> Potsdam, NY  13676
> Tel. 315-267-2100
> FAX 315-267-2496
>
>
> ______________________________**_________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
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>
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From idiez at me.com  Thu Nov  3 01:13:55 2011
From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 21:13:55 -0400
Subject: ihcequi doing it=?windows-1252?Q?=92s_?=applicative thing
In-Reply-To: <CAD_TCBH0k4dGtJk091ZhydPb2K3924MmL=NeExBWDo7siXbQWA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <WED.2.NOV.2011.211355.0400.IDIEZ@ME.COM>

Jonathan and/or Mitsuya,
	Can you explain the concept of anticausative?
John

On Nov 2, 2011, at 4:21 PM, Jonathan Amith wrote:

> Yes, that is there, but he mentioned a deverbal form uitecqui, which is
> what I can't find.
> 
> On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 2:05 PM, John F. Schwaller <schwallr at potsdam.edu>wrote:
> 
>> Could it possibly be lurking as uiuitequi - nite - apalear a otro  ??? f.
>> 158 of Molina
>> 
>> 
>> On 11/2/2011 1:37 PM, Jonathan Amith wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> I couldn't find uitecqui in my version of Molina. Rémi Siméon has uitecqui
>>> as "golpeado, fustigado, corregido, castigado" and has uitequi as a
>>> transitive.
>>> 
>>> 
>> --
>> *****************************
>> John F. Schwaller
>> President
>> SUNY - Potsdam
>> 44 Pierrepont Ave.
>> Potsdam, NY  13676
>> Tel. 315-267-2100
>> FAX 315-267-2496
>> 
>> 
>> ______________________________**_________________
>> Nahuatl mailing list
>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/**listinfo/nahuatl<http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl>
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl

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From jdanahuatl at gmail.com  Thu Nov  3 01:55:38 2011
From: jdanahuatl at gmail.com (Jonathan Amith)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 21:55:38 -0400
Subject: ihcequi doing it=?windows-1252?Q?=92s_?=applicative thing
In-Reply-To: <9F635483-B497-48B9-8806-F2C46E7895BD@me.com>
Message-ID: <WED.2.NOV.2011.215538.0400.JDANAHUATL@GMAIL.COM>

Hi, Mitsuya might be able to better than I.

There are certain valency increasing and valency decreasing mechanisms. The
most common valency increasing devices are causatives and applicatives (the
term aplicativo was first used, I think, by Carochi in fact, in reference
to Nahuatl). The causative generally moves a subject of an intransitive to
the object of a transitive and introduces a "causer"  for the transitive:
     nicho:ka >  ne:chcho:ktia
An applicative introduces a new argument, often a benefactive or
malefactive, although other semantic roles are possible (source,
destination, experiencer).

Terminology might vary. I think that Beth Levin refers to certain
alternations (break/break) as causative alternations, for example, others
might refer to these by other terms. At any rate, the semantics of the
variation are often argument specific. An example I used in my Nahuatl class
                      I broke my promise    ? My promise broke
                      ?I broke my voice       My voice broke
                      I broke the vase          The vase broke

For valency reducing devices common ones are the antipassive and
anticausative, passives.

Amberber in the book by Dixon and Aikhenvald (Changing Valency) notes, p.
315: "If an event encoded by a transitive predicate can be conceptualized
as taking place without the intervention of an external causer, the event
can be cast in the anticausative"  This is in reference to Amharic. Since
ihseki cannot occur in this manner, then perhaps your use of anticausative
is different than that implied by Amberber (and Levin and Rappaport, whom
he cites).

So, for example, something can close by itself, e.g., a wound, but in
Nahuatl (Balsas) there is no intransitive to mark this type of event. (In
Sierra Norte de Puebla there is). Thus in Balsas
A           notsakwas ka:mpa o:timotek   (your cut will heal/close up)
B           diki tihka:hte:was hko:n pwe:rtah, notsakwas  (if you leave the
door like that when you leave, it'll close [e.g. by the wind]
C           A-- hko:n?   B-- Ka:yoweh, ma notsakwa.  A-- Like this?  B--
No, it should be closed (in this case a door behind one, someone closing it)

So the reflexive marker can have a lot of different implications.  Maybe 1,
2, 3 above indicate different degrees of agentivity (none, wind
[inanimate], animate). I guess in Amberber's perspective B is more like an
anticausative as it can take place without the intervention of an external
causer, though A could also be so considered. I really would need to look
into how people have talked about these things. I really think that people
might differ on this, but the general idea is that a transitive is used
intransitively (often with a derivational affix) and no Agent is stated or
implied. A passive might have no stated agent (indeed in Nahuatl passives
cannot express an agent (cf. English. The ball was punctured and The ball
was punctured by John).

As for antipassives, this is another valency reducing device. In the
typical case an Agent of a Transitive becomes the Subject of an
Intransitive. With ergative languages this is clear as the subject of
intransitives are marked differently than the agents of transitives. With
nominative accusative languages such as English, some consider
constructions such as I eat to be an intransitive. But since Subject of
intransitive and Agent of transitives are marked the same, there is more
discussion here than with a language such as Mayan.

Nevertheless, in Nahuatl tla- does seem to be used, at least in Balsas, as
an antipassive marker since the object can be expressed obliquely with ika.

                       nihkwa:s yetl                   I will eat beans
(yetl is the object)
                       nitlakwa:s ika yetl           I will have a meal
with beans.




On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 9:13 PM, John Sullivan <idiez at me.com> wrote:

> Jonathan and/or Mitsuya,
>        Can you explain the concept of anticausative?
> John
>
> On Nov 2, 2011, at 4:21 PM, Jonathan Amith wrote:
>
> > Yes, that is there, but he mentioned a deverbal form uitecqui, which is
> > what I can't find.
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 2:05 PM, John F. Schwaller <schwallr at potsdam.edu
> >wrote:
> >
> >> Could it possibly be lurking as uiuitequi - nite - apalear a otro  ???
> f.
> >> 158 of Molina
> >>
> >>
> >> On 11/2/2011 1:37 PM, Jonathan Amith wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi,
> >>>
> >>> I couldn't find uitecqui in my version of Molina. Rémi Siméon has
> uitecqui
> >>> as "golpeado, fustigado, corregido, castigado" and has uitequi as a
> >>> transitive.
> >>>
> >>>
> >> --
> >> *****************************
> >> John F. Schwaller
> >> President
> >> SUNY - Potsdam
> >> 44 Pierrepont Ave.
> >> Potsdam, NY  13676
> >> Tel. 315-267-2100
> >> FAX 315-267-2496
> >>
> >>
> >> ______________________________**_________________
> >> Nahuatl mailing list
> >> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> >> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/**listinfo/nahuatl<
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl>
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Nahuatl mailing list
> > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>
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From hawatari21centuries at gmail.com  Thu Nov  3 01:38:59 2011
From: hawatari21centuries at gmail.com (SASAKI Mitsuya)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 10:38:59 +0900
Subject: ihcequi doing it=?windows-1252?Q?=92s_?=applicative thing
In-Reply-To: <9F635483-B497-48B9-8806-F2C46E7895BD@me.com>
Message-ID: <THU.3.NOV.2011.103859.0900.HAWATARI21CENTURIES@GMAIL.COM>

Jonathan,
The example of huitecqui I found is the one Mary mentioned, f.70v in the 
Spanish-Nahuatl part of Molina 1571.

John and Jonathan,
I've thought that we were using "anticausative" in the same way as Dixon 
& Aikhenvald's (2000) _Changing Valency: Case Studies of Transitivity_. 
They characterized anticausative as a derivation "where the S of the 
derived verb corresponds to the underlying O, and there is no marker of 
(or implication of the existence of) underlying A" (p.7).
Am I correct in this, Jonathan?

Mitsuya SASAKI
The Department of Linguistics, the University of Tokyo
ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp

(2011/11/03 10:13), John Sullivan wrote:
> Jonathan and/or Mitsuya,
> 	Can you explain the concept of anticausative?
> John
>
> On Nov 2, 2011, at 4:21 PM, Jonathan Amith wrote:
>
>> Yes, that is there, but he mentioned a deverbal form uitecqui, which is
>> what I can't find.
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 2:05 PM, John F. Schwaller<schwallr at potsdam.edu>wrote:
>>
>>> Could it possibly be lurking as uiuitequi - nite - apalear a otro  ??? f.
>>> 158 of Molina
>>>
>>>
>>> On 11/2/2011 1:37 PM, Jonathan Amith wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I couldn't find uitecqui in my version of Molina. Rémi Siméon has uitecqui
>>>> as "golpeado, fustigado, corregido, castigado" and has uitequi as a
>>>> transitive.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> --
>>> *****************************
>>> John F. Schwaller
>>> President
>>> SUNY - Potsdam
>>> 44 Pierrepont Ave.
>>> Potsdam, NY  13676
>>> Tel. 315-267-2100
>>> FAX 315-267-2496
>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>> Nahuatl mailing list
>>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/**listinfo/nahuatl<http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nahuatl mailing list
>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>
> _______________________________________________
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From lovegren at buffalo.edu  Thu Nov  3 01:56:05 2011
From: lovegren at buffalo.edu (Jesse Lovegren)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 21:56:05 -0400
Subject: ihcequi doing it=?windows-1252?Q?=92s_?=applicative thing
In-Reply-To: <9F635483-B497-48B9-8806-F2C46E7895BD@me.com>
Message-ID: <WED.2.NOV.2011.215605.0400.LOVEGREN@BUFFALO.EDU>

Hi Listeros,
  I think the term anticausative has always confused me because it would
seem that it mgiht be coined off an analogy with antipassive, but it's a
different kind of "anti-".
  An antipassive is, like a passive, a valence-reduced form of a normally
transitive verb, but instead of the notional A argument being demoted (as
in a passive), the O argument is demoted. So in a basic transitive clause,
both A and O are core arguments. In passive, the erstwhile A is expressed
as an oblique or not at all, and in antipassive the O is likewise demoted.
  The anticausative is the opposite of the causative in a different way. In
a causative, valence is increased, and the causer of an action is
introduced as a subject argument, the original arguments being demoted (A/S
demoted to O, O demoted to oblique, usually). Causatives introduce a causer
which could not have been inferred otherwise. Anticausatives do the
opposite thing. Instead of increasing valence, they decrease it. The
underlying verb would normally be transitive, and erstwhile O is promoted
to S, and erstwhile A is not expressed at all. And instead of introducing
an effector as causatives do, they introduce the implication that there is
no causer, while in the basic transitive form the A argument would normally
be understood as the causer. I think the standard view is that the
implication of agentlessness sets anticausatives apart from agentless
passives.
  So if I were encountering Spanish for the first time, and I found two
agentless expressions

(1) La ventana estuvo quebrada
(2) La ventana se quebró

  I might check whether it is possible to add some kind of adjunct which
reinforces the agentlessness of the action, e.g. see if I can have my
consultant agree that it's acceptable to say something like (3), or check
in my corpus whether (1) ever gets used in a situation where the agent can
be clearly inferred.

(3) "?De la nada la ventana estuvo quebrada"

  [I am attaching a diagram from p.7 of Dixon&Aikhenvald's "Changing
Valency"]

On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 9:13 PM, John Sullivan <idiez at me.com> wrote:

> Jonathan and/or Mitsuya,
>        Can you explain the concept of anticausative?
> John
>
> On Nov 2, 2011, at 4:21 PM, Jonathan Amith wrote:
>
> > Yes, that is there, but he mentioned a deverbal form uitecqui, which is
> > what I can't find.
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 2:05 PM, John F. Schwaller <schwallr at potsdam.edu
> >wrote:
> >
> >> Could it possibly be lurking as uiuitequi - nite - apalear a otro  ???
> f.
> >> 158 of Molina
> >>
> >>
> >> On 11/2/2011 1:37 PM, Jonathan Amith wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi,
> >>>
> >>> I couldn't find uitecqui in my version of Molina. Rémi Siméon has
> uitecqui
> >>> as "golpeado, fustigado, corregido, castigado" and has uitequi as a
> >>> transitive.
> >>>
> >>>
> >> --
> >> *****************************
> >> John F. Schwaller
> >> President
> >> SUNY - Potsdam
> >> 44 Pierrepont Ave.
> >> Potsdam, NY  13676
> >> Tel. 315-267-2100
> >> FAX 315-267-2496
> >>
> >>
> >> ______________________________**_________________
> >> Nahuatl mailing list
> >> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> >> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/**listinfo/nahuatl<
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl>
> >>
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From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx  Thu Nov  3 02:18:28 2011
From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 20:18:28 -0600
Subject: Tunas and purslane
Message-ID: <WED.2.NOV.2011.201828.0600.DCWRIGHT@PRODIGY.NET.MX>

Estimados listeros:

 

Has anyone seen the word tenochtli associated with a specific species of
Opuntia in colonial or modern texts? (Other than the IB-UNAM edition of
Francisco Hernández’s botanical treatise, that is.)

 

How about colonial or modern Nahuatl words for purslane (verdolaga,
Portulaca oleracea)? I have Sahagún’s itzmiquilitl (book 11, chapter 7,
paragraph 3, folio 287r), which probably refers to this species (the
association of the drawing and the gloss on f. 286r are probably in error,
considering the descriptions in Spanish and Nahuatl). I also found itzmitl
for “verdolaga” in Matías and Medina’s dictionary of the modern Nahuatl
variety spoken in Acatlán.

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

Saludos,

 

David

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From campbel at indiana.edu  Fri Nov  4 03:41:34 2011
From: campbel at indiana.edu (Campbell, R. Joe)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 23:41:34 -0400
Subject: ihcequi doing it?s applicative thing
Message-ID: <THU.3.NOV.2011.234134.0400.CAMPBEL@INDIANA.EDU>

Mitzuya,

   Andrews lists one of our verbs of interest under the topic of
"valence-neutral" verbstems -- ahci.  He points out that
"valence-neutral" verbstems
can be either transitive or intransitive.  This passage is interesting, but
I found myself disagreeing with some specific statements, particularly
in #24.2.1 and #24.2.2, where he claims that the verbs discussed can
have an applicative or causative meaning.

   I would assume that ahci, toca, temiqui, etc., simply function as
either intransitive or transitive verbs, so I don't see that claiming
the applicative or causative function adds to our understanding.

   However, my understanding of a particular problem certainly
benefitted from re-reading this passage.  Molina lists "huitecqui" as
'herido' and, since I thought of "huitequi" as being only a transitive
verb, I expected an object prefix.  I discussed the problem with a
colleague (a member of the just-dissolved Nahuatl morphology academy 
that functioned at Notre Dame until recently).  We didn't arrive at a 
definite conclusion, but I would suggest that Andrews' intransitive 
"huitequi" provides the answer:

   nitehuitequi       I whip someone
   nihuitequi         I experience whipping

   tehuitecqui        s.o. who has been whipped (by s.o. else)
   huitecqui          s.o. who has experienced whipping (no implied agent)

Joe



>>
>>       On the issue of Nahuatl verbs that are both transitive and
>> intransitive, we have others in the same category -- e.g., e:hua,
>> chipa:hua, mela:hua:
>>
>>      e:hua      she arises
>>     e:huac     she arose
>>     que:uh    she raised it
>>
>>     chipa:hua   it becomes pure
>>    chipa:huac  it became pure
>>   quichi:pauh  he purified it
>>
>>


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From cuecuex at gmail.com  Fri Nov  4 07:22:02 2011
From: cuecuex at gmail.com (roberto romero)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 01:22:02 -0600
Subject: Tunas and purslane
In-Reply-To: <006301cc9a5b$bde86fd0$39b94f70$@net.mx>
Message-ID: <FRI.4.NOV.2011.012202.0600.CUECUEX@GMAIL.COM>

Hola David  y demas foristas

Envió el siguiente “rollito”  sobre el Tenochtli donde espero
encuentren algo útil,  en la bibliografía que buscas sobre el
Tenochtli   para lo botánico la información esta en la parte II del
presente texto.

Tenochtli, símbolo religioso y de un tipo de sacrificio , de fundación
de pueblos por la vía de la conquista ,  de identidad étnica y de una
ciudad.

La imagen del Tenochtli creo yo es un símbolo que sirve para indicar
no solo una ciudad determinada México Tenochtitlan sino de forma mas
genérica sirvió como símbolo para indicar la fundación de un pueblo
pues lo encontramos no sólo en la fundación de Tenochtitlan, ver la
imagen varias fuentes,  sino también en la fundación por los otomies y
sus guachichiles amigos  del pueblo de San Juan del Río en lo que hoy
es el estado de Durango .

Y sabemos que esta última fundación fue precedida de la conquista y el
exterminio de los chichimecas  opuestos a los esclavistas españoles,
exterminio logrado mediante el concurso de las tropas otomíes  y de
los guachichiles amigos todos bajo el mando del cacique otomie de
Xilotepec con el pomposo nombre de Don Pedro Martín del Toro.

De los datos anteriores el Tenochtli resulta ser  un símbolo de
fundación de una población mediante la vía de la conquista militar y
el exterminio de los originales pobladores. Algo así debio haber
sucedido en donde se fundo Mexico Tenochtitlan, sus originales
pobladores,  posiblemente otomies,  fueron no sólo echados de sus
tierras sino aniquilados, exterminados y borrados de la historia .

La imagen del Tenochtli como un conjunto simbólico que une a un  nopal
con un águila  parada sobre el nopal y que atrapa a una serpiente no
solo aparece en el mito de los chichimecas mexicas o de los colhuas
mexicas, los mal llamados aztecas .

Creo que como ocurrió con el nombre de México, de igual forma  los
chichimecas mexicas tomaron el mito de los otomies

Mas aún los chichimecas mexicas eran quizás culturalmente otomies.
Ixtlixochitl dice que sus idioma natural no era el nahuatl y en la
Relación de Coatepec  de 1582 se dice que dicho lugar fue conquistado
por los colhuas y por los chichimecas mexicas  y que unos hablaban
nahuatl y los otros sólo un lenguaje chichimeca

El mismo conjunto simbólico usado por los mexicas para representar al
Tenochtli aparece en un documento de manufactura otomí sólo que ahí la
serpiente aparece además herida por una flecha o por un dardo o
venablo.

 La imagen del Tenochtli  se pinta al lado de donde se ilustra el
combate entre el jefe chichimeca  Mazadín  y el jefe otomíe Pedro
Martín del Toro, combate en donde resulta muerto Mazadin, el cacique
chichimeca .

Esta imagen del Tenochtli la puedes ver en la lámina 2 del Memorial de
Pedro Martín del Toro,  editado, paleografiado y publicado hace años
por el gobierno del Estado de Querétaro en una muy buena edición
preparada por un joven investigador afincado en México que ya entonces
prometía mucho y que tu debes conocer bien.

Este investigador de iniciales D. W.   interpreta el símbolo del
Tenochtli como símbolo de un acto de sacrificio de corazones para
alimentar el sol y con ello los otomíes como portadores de una
religión solar  o con el culto al sol como soporte estructural de la
religión de esos otomíes de la región de Xilotepec.

Por artículos mas recientes parece que hasta la fecha ese investigador
sostiene la misma opinión.

Tenochtli tiene  entre los Colhuas Mexicas  un significado esotérico y
religioso el cual puedes ver en la  Crónica Mexicayotl del historiador
indígena Tezozomoc Folios 88 a 94 , p. 62 a 67 en la edición de la
UNAM con texto nahua y dos traducciones distintas del nahuatl al
español.

El Tenochtli se nos presenta aquí como un nopal divino, un Teo
Nochtli, pues  dicho nopal es una planta divina que germinó de la
semilla divina que a su vez era el Corazón del brujo Copil, un ser
divino pues era nada menos que el sobrino del dios Huitzilpochtli e
hijo  de Malinalxoch,  la hermana del misógino y machista dios
Huitzilopochtli que a la única mujer que quiere es a su mama, La
Cihuacoatl o la Coatlicue, según la versión de la religión colhua
mexica , pues Huitzilopochtli se la pasa peleando e incluso matando a
sus hermanas, recuerdese el triste destino de la Coyotl Xauhqui.

Brotando del cuerpo de Copil se ve al nopal divino al Tenochtli en el
códice Azcatitla, respetando la ortografía original del documento y no
la moderna ortografía del nahuatl . La Lámina donde aparece brotando
el Tenochtli del centro del cuerpo de Copil es la lámina XIII del
citado códice Azcatitla que se puede consultar en las Obras Completas
de Barlow Tomo V

Imágenes similares de nopales que brotan del centro de un cuerpo lo
puedes ver en el códice Borgia  y arqueológicamente en Tula , en las
alfardas del sitio Zapata Ver Iconoghrafía de Tula El caso de la
escultura de Elizabeth Jimenez INAH  fig 114 y 115 p 264 y 265

Brotando el Tenochtli de la fauce de una deidad  que se halla tendida
en el suelo  se le puede ver en la parte trasera del llamado Teocalli
de la guerra Sagrada, única representación escultórica de
Huitzilopochtli que existe de ese dios de acuerdo a la Doctora Yolotl
Gonzales.

Aunque ahí en ese Teocalli de la… la imagen de  Huitzilopochtli no muy
tradicional pues aparece cojo de un pie como lo es la imagen típica
del dios Tezcatlipoca. En una de esa no es Huitzilopochtli quien se
representó en dicha escultura

Imagenes e interpretaciónes  de dicho pieza escultórica  se pueden
leer en Alfonso Caso El Teocalli de la Guerra Sagrada : Descripción de
la Parte posterior del Monumento p 72  Obras Vol 7 Caso además
presenta imágenes de Tenochtli de varios códices , Kinsgsborough,
Mendocino y Telleriano  p 75 del Atlas de Duran y del  códice
Mendocino Lamina 1, y del Códice Ramírez.

Caso  liga el Tenochtli con el llamado por Seler:  “arbol del norte”
donde se muestra un nopal de dimensiones arbóreas que brota de un ser
y que aparece en el Códice Borgia p 50 . y el mismo “árbol del norte”
en el Códice Vaticano B p.17  Caso:81
Borgia en Famsi aqui
http://www.famsi.org/spanish/research/loubat/Borgia/page_50.jpg
Vaticano B esquina inferior derecha aquí:
http://www.famsi.org/spanish/research/loubat/Vaticanus%203773/page_17.jpg


Otra interpretación  del llamado Teocalli ,,,. a mi personal juicio de
menor alcance que la interpretación de Caso,  es la de M. Graulich :
Nuevas consideraciones en Torno al Teocalli de la Guerra Sagrada
(Símbolos de Poder en Mesoamérica UNAM )   pues su único objetivo es
buscar sustentar que en dicha escultura se encuentra la evidencia de
una reforma religiosa del cambio de fecha del Fuego Nuevo.

Existen otras imágenes del Tenochtli que lo señalan como símbolo de
identidad de Tenochtitlan, al  igual que todas las imágenes de
Tenochtli citadas por Caso .

Entre otras imágenes de Tenochtli que no cita Caso se tiene la imagen
del Tenochtli de donde parte Axayacatl con traje de Xipe  en la Lámina
3 del Coscatzin  que viene en una reproducción horrible en el artículo
“Los Dioses del Templo Mayor de Tlateloco “y en “La guerra de 1473 de
Tlatelolco y Tenochtitlan según el códice Cozcatzin” ambos artículos
de  Robert Barlow Obras Vol.2 p 94 y 77 respectivamente.

En el primer artículo se reproduce  también la lámina 36v del
Telleriano donde aparece el Tenochtli identificando a Tenochtitlán en
su guerra contra Tlatelolco. Pero mejor ver esta página en Famsi aquí
http://www.famsi.org/spanish/research/loubat/Telleriano-Remensis/page_36v.jpg
o cuando invaden Cotastla  lamina 33v
http://www.famsi.org/spanish/research/loubat/Telleriano-Remensis/page_33v.jpg

Representaciones pictográficas y símbólicas  mas extrañas de
Tlatelolco y del Tenochtli  que identifica a Tenochtitlan se ven en
“Anales de la Conquista de Tlatelolco” documento del museo de Boturini
rescatado por el sabio José Fernando Ramírez, original perdido años
después y que en su momento copió el licenciado Chimalpopoca Galicia
en el siglo XIX y de esta copia Barlow reproduce  una lámina en su
artículo Anales de la Conquista de Tlatelolco en 1473 y en 1521  Obras
vol 2 p 187

El Tenochtli , nopal y piedra, en éstos Annales tiene como base una
especie de muro de madera o compuerta,  elemento gráfico que no
aparece en otras imágens del Tenochtli .

En estos Annales se califica a los Tenochcas como Ecatzitzimitl,
espectros de hueso del viento .  Y el anónimo redactor tlateloca que
escribió estos annales señala que en dicha guerra “se destruyó
completamente el señorío, la nobleza y la religión”  propia de los
Tlatellolcas. De donde yo deduzco  que originalmente dicha religión de
los Tlatelolcas era distinta a la religión de los Tenochcas.  Barlow
Obras Vol 2. p186

En la crónica Mexicayotl redactada por Tezozomoc se nos dice que el
Tenochtli germinó y creció a la entrada de la cueva que se ubicaba en
el sitio llamado Acatitlan f91 o en el sitio llamado Oztotempan f93
lugar cercano de otros llamados Acatzallan y Toltzallan . loc.cit

El lugar donde se asienta el Tenochtli parece ser fue  donde se
cruzaban cuatro aguas divinas dos que venian desde el rumbo oriente
donde estaba una cueva por la cual fluía el agua de fuego Tletl y el
agua quemada Atlaltlayan mientras por el norte se situaba la segunda
cueva por donde manaban la Matlalatl el agua azul obscura y la
Tozpalatal el agua color rojo, color papagayo.  P63

En el cruce de esas aguas divinas parece ser fue donde surgió el
Tenochtli , o sea no es cualquier nopal. Y la niebla que producen esas
aguas no es cualquier niebla es divina, es humedad divina y también
lo era el nopal que se nutria que tomaba agua de esa humedad  de la
niebla pues al estar el nopal sobre una piedra no lo podía hacer
directamente del agua.

Tenemos a los chichimecas mexicas miticamente hablando de riego del
nopal  mediante el mecanismo de  riego por nebulización o humedad en
el aíre.

El sitio donde estaba el Tenochtli, el nopal divino, que era la señal
divina dada por el dios creador de los chichimecas mexicas para fundar
su  asiento, fue el mismo lugar donde esos miserables mexicas
chichimecas levantaron el indigente Templo dedicado a Huitzilopochtli
, llamado entonces al momento de la fundación  el Ayauhcalli, la casa
de la niebla. Probablemente esa niebla era divina pues surgía de las
cuatro aguas divinas que en dicho sitio se unían y se cruzaban.

En el momento de fundación bajo el gobierno chichimeca  de Tenoch,  la
casa del dios Huitzilopchtli aún no se le llama el Coatepec, ese
nombre  le sería dado años después ya bajo el dominio de los mestizos
Colhua Mexicas , un dominio y gobierno oligárquico pues estuvo basado
en puros parientes de Acamapichtli, los cuales re escribieron la
historia y también modificaron la original religión chichimeca mexica
. Cambiandola por una tolteca, como cultural y racialmente lo eran
esos mestizos

Y dentro de esa nueva religión inventaron un segundo nacimiento de
Huitzilopochtli que además no tenían  necesidad de justificar pues al
fin y cabo como Huitzilopochtli era un dios  y además muy poderoso,
podía hacer lo que se le pegara su gana y nacer cuantas veces quisiera
como ya anota y destaca la Historia de los Mexicanos por sus pinturas.

En el lugar donde estaba el Tenochtli, ahí mismo  se construyo el
Ayauhcalli, la casa de la niebla,  el hogar divino la casa del dios
Huitzilopochtli, el dios que era pariente o hijo de otro dios
chichimeca el dios  Opochtli,  ese dios de los chichimecas, cuyo culto
se mantenía en donde ahora se dice Churubusco.

Estos chichimecas  reconocieron la filiación familiar de
Huitzilopochtli del dios de los chichimecas Mexicas con su dios
Opochtli por la característica de ambos dioses de ser zurdos, de usar
preferentemente mano, brazo y pierna izquierda. Rasgo de indudable
filiación genética como correctamente destacaron los informantes del
redactor de  la Historia de los Mexicanos por sus Pinturas, de donde
se toma esta información

El Ayauhcalli la casa de la niebla, el hogar divino de Huitzilopochtli
el Hijo de Tlaloc donde junto con su padre Tlaloc, juntos Dios Hijo y
Dios padre , según  el códice Aubin  vivirían y darían poder a sus
fieles chichimecas mexicas.

 Esta voluntad divina de Tlaloc la dio  a conocer cuando se entrevistó
con el teomama llamado Axolohua, un  teomama queen  su nombre indica
tiene facultades asombrosas como los axolotes, esos fabulosos animales
anfibios habitantes de los lagos que hoy están en peligro de
extinción.

 Axolohua  fue sumergido en el agua hasta que se ahogo  y gracias a
esa forma de muerte pudo llegar al Tlalocan y escuchar la palabra y
órden divina del dios Tlaloc .

Luego el dios Tlaloc como dios poderoso que era hizo un milagro y
resucitó al teomamam  Axolohua, así como Jesús el dios cristiano
resucito a Lázaro.

Vuelto a la vida Axolohua les dijo a los demás teomamas lo que Tlaloc
le comunicó y le   ordenó hacer señalando que Tlaloc le dijo :   “Ha
llegado mi hijo [Huitzilopochtli], pues aquí será su casa. Pues el la
dedicara, porque aquí viviremos unidos en la tierra”. Historia que nos
narra el texto del  Códice Aubin.

Y el hijo de Tlaloc sabemos que fue la Luna según nos dicen varias
fuentes y además sabemos que  el dios agorero y prodigioso por eso
llamado el Tetzauteotl,  le dijo a el chaman Huitziil que él, el dios
Tetzauteolt era nada menos que La Luna , mexztli y por eso sus
adoradores se llamaron mecitin.

Luego el Tetzauteotl le anunció  al chaman Huitzil  que iba  morir y
que en los  huesos del chaman Huitzil , el dios Tetzauteotl se haría a
su imagen divina.

Y así el dios Tetzauhateol, la Luna,meztli, tomando materia en los
huesos del  chaman Huitzil se convirtió en el dios Huitzilopochtli
según nos narra Cristobal del Castillo en su Historia de la venida de
los Mexicanos y retoma la historia Domingo de Chimalpain en su
memorial Breve de Culhuacan.

II El Tenochtli como especie de nopal


El Tenochtli como una especie de nopal los mejores apuntes los
encontraras  en el escrito de Francisco del Paso y Troncoso La
Botánica entre los nahuas  editado por Pilar Maynes y publicado por la
SEP

Troncoso ubicara imágenes del Tenochtli en el códice Mendocino, en el
códice  Telleriano y en una obra menos conocida los grabados del padre
Nieremberg:  HIstoria naturae maxime peregrinae publicado el año de
1635 .

Troncoso  añade que el sabio José Fernando Ramirez , también estudió y
opinó sobre la obra de Eusebio Nieremberg con otra interpretación
distinta a la de Troncoso, virtiendo su punto de vista en el artículo
de Fernando Ramirez dedicado a Hernández y que apareció en la
Biblioteca Hispano Mexicana.

Troncoso señala además que e la edición de Recchi de la obra de
Nieremberg se omiten las  páginas que  analiza Troncoso y Ramírez.

En la obra citada el sabio Troncoso  (p.137) nos dice que la imagen
del Tenochtli está en la lámina 19 figura 16 del Códice Mendocino
mientras que el Teo nochtli el nopal divino su imagen está en la
lámina 44 fig13 (p. 137 op.cit).

Páginas adelante analizando los grabados de Nieremberg (p309  del
sacerdote Nieremberg) Trocoso  destaca que la planta representada ahí
es la la Ayotli, Una Calabaza (p145)  no un nopal y la compara con la
imagen XVI  del códice Telleriano  señalando que "estudiando el fruto
y su apéndice por comparación, he visto que es idéntico al símbolo que
corona las pencas del te-nochtli en la lámina XVI de la cuarta parte
del códice Telleriano”.

Maynez anota que es el año de 1478 doce conejos cuando los mexicanos
sujetaron a Xiquipilco.
http://www.famsi.org/spanish/research/loubat/Telleriano-Remensis/page_37v.jpg

Efectivamente aquí en esta lámina del códice Telleriano se observa que
el símbolo del Tenochtli se ha modificado  fuertemente respecto a su
tradicional imagen.

El Tenochtli deja de ser una especie de cruz de nopal de cuyos
“brazos” brotan dos flores de aspecto no natuales .

En esta lámina el nopal no es una cruz, no tiene el “brazo”  izquierdo
y  carece de las grandes espinas, sigue teniendo dos flores pero ahora
estas son representaciones pictóricas realistas y  una de ellas ahora
brota del “cuerpo” central del nopal lo uqe no ocurre en las otras
imágenes .

Esta imagen  de la lamina 37v del Telleriano es muy distinta a todas
las otras representaciones del Tenochtli  existentes en éste códice
pero sigue siendo el Tenochtli .

A su lado ligado al signo del año 13 caña  (1479) aparece primero el
escudo que tradicionalmente llevan varios dioses como Huitzilopochli,
Tezcatlipoca, la dios Tonan Icaca o Cihuacoatl , y ligado a éste
escudo aparece una planta sobre un campo de cultivo que a mi me parece
es una representación de una planta de maíz y no una calabaza como
postula Troncoso

Troncoso agrega "siendo de notar que el Tenochtli, casi siempre viene
coronado por una verdadera flor". Anotando que en la imagen faltan
algunas características biológicas de la planta y anotando una común
característica entre las Cucurbitaceas y las Cactaceas. p146

Troncoso analiza el Tenochtli de la página 310 de Nieremberg y
señalando que este grabado es mejor que el que aparece en el códice
Telleriano

Troncoso retoma la obra de Francisco Hernández, el celebre sabio
Novohispano, y señala que el Tenochtli es una cactácea "poniéndolo
como idéntico a la Tuna u Opuntia, con la diferencia de que sus
pencas, son mas largas, angostas y además torcidas; comparando, en
efecto, la lámina de Nieremberg, que se adapta a esa descripción, con
la de la edición romana correspondiente a la Opuntia Hernandesii (
pp78 y 459) se nota que las pencas de ésta última son mas cortas y
anchas. resumiendo , todo lo que he dicho acerca de las láminas de
Nieemberg, vemos que ya no se trata de aquí de simbolísmos puros, como
en los Anales jeroglíficos, sino mas bien de representaciones mixtas,
persistiendo casi siempre el uso de símbolos con referencia al terreno
en que se desarrollaba la planta, mientras que las diversas partes del
vegetal eran dibujadas con más o menos exactitud " p147

El terreno donde surge el  nopal de la variedad Tenochtli es pedregoso
y es simbolizado por una piedra.

Troncoso a partir de ello propone que la iconografía botánica de los
nahuas era simbólica en los anales jeroglíficos pero también había
iconografía figurativa como la que se presenta en  el caso de la obra
de Nieremberg  pues Troncoso cita la opinión de Jose  Fernando Ramirez
del artículo citado quien señala que:  "Las dos estampas conservadas
en la historia de Nieremberg, y omitidas en la edición, de Recchi ,
patentizan fueron dibujadas por calígrafos mexicanos de la antigua
escuela, pues solamente a ellos podría ocurrírles darles las formas
requeridas por el sistema pictográfico".  p147 Troncoso op.cit

Páginas adelante en la p. 165 Troncoso señala las características
complejas de la clasificación botánica de los nahuas que incluía
variedad y especie y para ello toma entre otros casos el de la Tuna  o
Nochtli ( Troncoso p165 op.cit). Donde distinguain por ejemplo a la
tuna amarga

Espero te sea útil algo de esta información y que sea de algún interés
para los otros miembros de este foro

Roberto Romero Gutierrez
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From hawatari21centuries at gmail.com  Fri Nov  4 04:56:30 2011
From: hawatari21centuries at gmail.com (SASAKI Mitsuya)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 13:56:30 +0900
Subject: ihcequi doing it?s applicative thing
In-Reply-To: <20111103234134.92291p8twc48oo0s@webmail.iu.edu>
Message-ID: <FRI.4.NOV.2011.135630.0900.HAWATARI21CENTURIES@GMAIL.COM>

Joe,

If his statement on hui:tequi is correct, that seems to be crucial for 
the interpretation of the noun hui:tecqui.
Although I've yet to find the intransitive attestation of hui:tequi in 
the texts and the pre-modern grammars, it might be that Andrews 
consulted some other sources I haven't checked.

The view of "valence neutrality" as merely a matter of valency is 
intuitively easier to understand as we know the pairs "te:miqui (vt/vi)" 
and "to:ca (vt/vi)" resemble English verb pairs "to dream (vt/vi)" and 
"to sow (vt/vi)".

Maybe your generalization and Andrews' statement don't contradict each 
other if we assume that his notion of "applicative/causative meaning" is 
simply semantic (i.e. whether the object of the transitive counterpart 
is semantically benefactive/malefactive or patient/theme).

In this regard, we could say, for example, that the verb "to break (vt)" 
is a lexical causative counterpart of "to break (vi)".

(But anyway, it seems still problematic to say that the object of 
te:miqui is benefactive/malefactive.)

Mitsuya SASAKI
The Department of Linguistics, the University of Tokyo
ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp

(2011/11/04 12:41), Campbell, R. Joe wrote:
> Mitzuya,
>
> Andrews lists one of our verbs of interest under the topic of
> "valence-neutral" verbstems -- ahci. He points out that
> "valence-neutral" verbstems
> can be either transitive or intransitive. This passage is interesting, but
> I found myself disagreeing with some specific statements, particularly
> in #24.2.1 and #24.2.2, where he claims that the verbs discussed can
> have an applicative or causative meaning.
>
> I would assume that ahci, toca, temiqui, etc., simply function as
> either intransitive or transitive verbs, so I don't see that claiming
> the applicative or causative function adds to our understanding.
>
> However, my understanding of a particular problem certainly
> benefitted from re-reading this passage. Molina lists "huitecqui" as
> 'herido' and, since I thought of "huitequi" as being only a transitive
> verb, I expected an object prefix. I discussed the problem with a
> colleague (a member of the just-dissolved Nahuatl morphology academy
> that functioned at Notre Dame until recently). We didn't arrive at a
> definite conclusion, but I would suggest that Andrews' intransitive
> "huitequi" provides the answer:
>
> nitehuitequi I whip someone
> nihuitequi I experience whipping
>
> tehuitecqui s.o. who has been whipped (by s.o. else)
> huitecqui s.o. who has experienced whipping (no implied agent)
>
> Joe
>
>
>
>>>
>>> On the issue of Nahuatl verbs that are both transitive and
>>> intransitive, we have others in the same category -- e.g., e:hua,
>>> chipa:hua, mela:hua:
>>>
>>> e:hua she arises
>>> e:huac she arose
>>> que:uh she raised it
>>>
>>> chipa:hua it becomes pure
>>> chipa:huac it became pure
>>> quichi:pauh he purified it
>>>
>>>
>
>

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From jdanahuatl at gmail.com  Fri Nov  4 13:36:09 2011
From: jdanahuatl at gmail.com (Jonathan Amith)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 09:36:09 -0400
Subject: Tunas and purslane
In-Reply-To: <CAOZR5EJHr6qiE5gU3_cDpY4-O9_PShGqX+Pxrehc+ptaX9sB+w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.4.NOV.2011.093609.0400.JDANAHUATL@GMAIL.COM>

Hi David,

In the Balsas valley of Guerrero tetsmitl is Portulaca oleracea L.
(verdolaga). There is a tetsmitl "look alike" í:tlatlá:k in Oapan, that is
an Aizoaceae, Trianthema portulacastrum L.

For the Opuntia I have tekono:xtli in Oapan, and teono:xtli (sic) for the
inside rods of a certain cactus, apparently Pachycereus grandis Rose, but
maybe also some Opuntias. .

Jonathan

2011/11/4 roberto romero <cuecuex at gmail.com>

> Hola David  y demas foristas
>
> Envió el siguiente “rollito”  sobre el Tenochtli donde espero
> encuentren algo útil,  en la bibliografía que buscas sobre el
> Tenochtli   para lo botánico la información esta en la parte II del
> presente texto.
>
> Tenochtli, símbolo religioso y de un tipo de sacrificio , de fundación
> de pueblos por la vía de la conquista ,  de identidad étnica y de una
> ciudad.
>
> La imagen del Tenochtli creo yo es un símbolo que sirve para indicar
> no solo una ciudad determinada México Tenochtitlan sino de forma mas
> genérica sirvió como símbolo para indicar la fundación de un pueblo
> pues lo encontramos no sólo en la fundación de Tenochtitlan, ver la
> imagen varias fuentes,  sino también en la fundación por los otomies y
> sus guachichiles amigos  del pueblo de San Juan del Río en lo que hoy
> es el estado de Durango .
>
> Y sabemos que esta última fundación fue precedida de la conquista y el
> exterminio de los chichimecas  opuestos a los esclavistas españoles,
> exterminio logrado mediante el concurso de las tropas otomíes  y de
> los guachichiles amigos todos bajo el mando del cacique otomie de
> Xilotepec con el pomposo nombre de Don Pedro Martín del Toro.
>
> De los datos anteriores el Tenochtli resulta ser  un símbolo de
> fundación de una población mediante la vía de la conquista militar y
> el exterminio de los originales pobladores. Algo así debio haber
> sucedido en donde se fundo Mexico Tenochtitlan, sus originales
> pobladores,  posiblemente otomies,  fueron no sólo echados de sus
> tierras sino aniquilados, exterminados y borrados de la historia .
>
> La imagen del Tenochtli como un conjunto simbólico que une a un  nopal
> con un águila  parada sobre el nopal y que atrapa a una serpiente no
> solo aparece en el mito de los chichimecas mexicas o de los colhuas
> mexicas, los mal llamados aztecas .
>
> Creo que como ocurrió con el nombre de México, de igual forma  los
> chichimecas mexicas tomaron el mito de los otomies
>
> Mas aún los chichimecas mexicas eran quizás culturalmente otomies.
> Ixtlixochitl dice que sus idioma natural no era el nahuatl y en la
> Relación de Coatepec  de 1582 se dice que dicho lugar fue conquistado
> por los colhuas y por los chichimecas mexicas  y que unos hablaban
> nahuatl y los otros sólo un lenguaje chichimeca
>
> El mismo conjunto simbólico usado por los mexicas para representar al
> Tenochtli aparece en un documento de manufactura otomí sólo que ahí la
> serpiente aparece además herida por una flecha o por un dardo o
> venablo.
>
>  La imagen del Tenochtli  se pinta al lado de donde se ilustra el
> combate entre el jefe chichimeca  Mazadín  y el jefe otomíe Pedro
> Martín del Toro, combate en donde resulta muerto Mazadin, el cacique
> chichimeca .
>
> Esta imagen del Tenochtli la puedes ver en la lámina 2 del Memorial de
> Pedro Martín del Toro,  editado, paleografiado y publicado hace años
> por el gobierno del Estado de Querétaro en una muy buena edición
> preparada por un joven investigador afincado en México que ya entonces
> prometía mucho y que tu debes conocer bien.
>
> Este investigador de iniciales D. W.   interpreta el símbolo del
> Tenochtli como símbolo de un acto de sacrificio de corazones para
> alimentar el sol y con ello los otomíes como portadores de una
> religión solar  o con el culto al sol como soporte estructural de la
> religión de esos otomíes de la región de Xilotepec.
>
> Por artículos mas recientes parece que hasta la fecha ese investigador
> sostiene la misma opinión.
>
> Tenochtli tiene  entre los Colhuas Mexicas  un significado esotérico y
> religioso el cual puedes ver en la  Crónica Mexicayotl del historiador
> indígena Tezozomoc Folios 88 a 94 , p. 62 a 67 en la edición de la
> UNAM con texto nahua y dos traducciones distintas del nahuatl al
> español.
>
> El Tenochtli se nos presenta aquí como un nopal divino, un Teo
> Nochtli, pues  dicho nopal es una planta divina que germinó de la
> semilla divina que a su vez era el Corazón del brujo Copil, un ser
> divino pues era nada menos que el sobrino del dios Huitzilpochtli e
> hijo  de Malinalxoch,  la hermana del misógino y machista dios
> Huitzilopochtli que a la única mujer que quiere es a su mama, La
> Cihuacoatl o la Coatlicue, según la versión de la religión colhua
> mexica , pues Huitzilopochtli se la pasa peleando e incluso matando a
> sus hermanas, recuerdese el triste destino de la Coyotl Xauhqui.
>
> Brotando del cuerpo de Copil se ve al nopal divino al Tenochtli en el
> códice Azcatitla, respetando la ortografía original del documento y no
> la moderna ortografía del nahuatl . La Lámina donde aparece brotando
> el Tenochtli del centro del cuerpo de Copil es la lámina XIII del
> citado códice Azcatitla que se puede consultar en las Obras Completas
> de Barlow Tomo V
>
> Imágenes similares de nopales que brotan del centro de un cuerpo lo
> puedes ver en el códice Borgia  y arqueológicamente en Tula , en las
> alfardas del sitio Zapata Ver Iconoghrafía de Tula El caso de la
> escultura de Elizabeth Jimenez INAH  fig 114 y 115 p 264 y 265
>
> Brotando el Tenochtli de la fauce de una deidad  que se halla tendida
> en el suelo  se le puede ver en la parte trasera del llamado Teocalli
> de la guerra Sagrada, única representación escultórica de
> Huitzilopochtli que existe de ese dios de acuerdo a la Doctora Yolotl
> Gonzales.
>
> Aunque ahí en ese Teocalli de la… la imagen de  Huitzilopochtli no muy
> tradicional pues aparece cojo de un pie como lo es la imagen típica
> del dios Tezcatlipoca. En una de esa no es Huitzilopochtli quien se
> representó en dicha escultura
>
> Imagenes e interpretaciónes  de dicho pieza escultórica  se pueden
> leer en Alfonso Caso El Teocalli de la Guerra Sagrada : Descripción de
> la Parte posterior del Monumento p 72  Obras Vol 7 Caso además
> presenta imágenes de Tenochtli de varios códices , Kinsgsborough,
> Mendocino y Telleriano  p 75 del Atlas de Duran y del  códice
> Mendocino Lamina 1, y del Códice Ramírez.
>
> Caso  liga el Tenochtli con el llamado por Seler:  “arbol del norte”
> donde se muestra un nopal de dimensiones arbóreas que brota de un ser
> y que aparece en el Códice Borgia p 50 . y el mismo “árbol del norte”
> en el Códice Vaticano B p.17  Caso:81
> Borgia en Famsi aqui
> http://www.famsi.org/spanish/research/loubat/Borgia/page_50.jpg
> Vaticano B esquina inferior derecha aquí:
> http://www.famsi.org/spanish/research/loubat/Vaticanus%203773/page_17.jpg
>
>
> Otra interpretación  del llamado Teocalli ,,,. a mi personal juicio de
> menor alcance que la interpretación de Caso,  es la de M. Graulich :
> Nuevas consideraciones en Torno al Teocalli de la Guerra Sagrada
> (Símbolos de Poder en Mesoamérica UNAM )   pues su único objetivo es
> buscar sustentar que en dicha escultura se encuentra la evidencia de
> una reforma religiosa del cambio de fecha del Fuego Nuevo.
>
> Existen otras imágenes del Tenochtli que lo señalan como símbolo de
> identidad de Tenochtitlan, al  igual que todas las imágenes de
> Tenochtli citadas por Caso .
>
> Entre otras imágenes de Tenochtli que no cita Caso se tiene la imagen
> del Tenochtli de donde parte Axayacatl con traje de Xipe  en la Lámina
> 3 del Coscatzin  que viene en una reproducción horrible en el artículo
> “Los Dioses del Templo Mayor de Tlateloco “y en “La guerra de 1473 de
> Tlatelolco y Tenochtitlan según el códice Cozcatzin” ambos artículos
> de  Robert Barlow Obras Vol.2 p 94 y 77 respectivamente.
>
> En el primer artículo se reproduce  también la lámina 36v del
> Telleriano donde aparece el Tenochtli identificando a Tenochtitlán en
> su guerra contra Tlatelolco. Pero mejor ver esta página en Famsi aquí
>
> http://www.famsi.org/spanish/research/loubat/Telleriano-Remensis/page_36v.jpg
> o cuando invaden Cotastla  lamina 33v
>
> http://www.famsi.org/spanish/research/loubat/Telleriano-Remensis/page_33v.jpg
>
> Representaciones pictográficas y símbólicas  mas extrañas de
> Tlatelolco y del Tenochtli  que identifica a Tenochtitlan se ven en
> “Anales de la Conquista de Tlatelolco” documento del museo de Boturini
> rescatado por el sabio José Fernando Ramírez, original perdido años
> después y que en su momento copió el licenciado Chimalpopoca Galicia
> en el siglo XIX y de esta copia Barlow reproduce  una lámina en su
> artículo Anales de la Conquista de Tlatelolco en 1473 y en 1521  Obras
> vol 2 p 187
>
> El Tenochtli , nopal y piedra, en éstos Annales tiene como base una
> especie de muro de madera o compuerta,  elemento gráfico que no
> aparece en otras imágens del Tenochtli .
>
> En estos Annales se califica a los Tenochcas como Ecatzitzimitl,
> espectros de hueso del viento .  Y el anónimo redactor tlateloca que
> escribió estos annales señala que en dicha guerra “se destruyó
> completamente el señorío, la nobleza y la religión”  propia de los
> Tlatellolcas. De donde yo deduzco  que originalmente dicha religión de
> los Tlatelolcas era distinta a la religión de los Tenochcas.  Barlow
> Obras Vol 2. p186
>
> En la crónica Mexicayotl redactada por Tezozomoc se nos dice que el
> Tenochtli germinó y creció a la entrada de la cueva que se ubicaba en
> el sitio llamado Acatitlan f91 o en el sitio llamado Oztotempan f93
> lugar cercano de otros llamados Acatzallan y Toltzallan . loc.cit
>
> El lugar donde se asienta el Tenochtli parece ser fue  donde se
> cruzaban cuatro aguas divinas dos que venian desde el rumbo oriente
> donde estaba una cueva por la cual fluía el agua de fuego Tletl y el
> agua quemada Atlaltlayan mientras por el norte se situaba la segunda
> cueva por donde manaban la Matlalatl el agua azul obscura y la
> Tozpalatal el agua color rojo, color papagayo.  P63
>
> En el cruce de esas aguas divinas parece ser fue donde surgió el
> Tenochtli , o sea no es cualquier nopal. Y la niebla que producen esas
> aguas no es cualquier niebla es divina, es humedad divina y también
> lo era el nopal que se nutria que tomaba agua de esa humedad  de la
> niebla pues al estar el nopal sobre una piedra no lo podía hacer
> directamente del agua.
>
> Tenemos a los chichimecas mexicas miticamente hablando de riego del
> nopal  mediante el mecanismo de  riego por nebulización o humedad en
> el aíre.
>
> El sitio donde estaba el Tenochtli, el nopal divino, que era la señal
> divina dada por el dios creador de los chichimecas mexicas para fundar
> su  asiento, fue el mismo lugar donde esos miserables mexicas
> chichimecas levantaron el indigente Templo dedicado a Huitzilopochtli
> , llamado entonces al momento de la fundación  el Ayauhcalli, la casa
> de la niebla. Probablemente esa niebla era divina pues surgía de las
> cuatro aguas divinas que en dicho sitio se unían y se cruzaban.
>
> En el momento de fundación bajo el gobierno chichimeca  de Tenoch,  la
> casa del dios Huitzilopchtli aún no se le llama el Coatepec, ese
> nombre  le sería dado años después ya bajo el dominio de los mestizos
> Colhua Mexicas , un dominio y gobierno oligárquico pues estuvo basado
> en puros parientes de Acamapichtli, los cuales re escribieron la
> historia y también modificaron la original religión chichimeca mexica
> . Cambiandola por una tolteca, como cultural y racialmente lo eran
> esos mestizos
>
> Y dentro de esa nueva religión inventaron un segundo nacimiento de
> Huitzilopochtli que además no tenían  necesidad de justificar pues al
> fin y cabo como Huitzilopochtli era un dios  y además muy poderoso,
> podía hacer lo que se le pegara su gana y nacer cuantas veces quisiera
> como ya anota y destaca la Historia de los Mexicanos por sus pinturas.
>
> En el lugar donde estaba el Tenochtli, ahí mismo  se construyo el
> Ayauhcalli, la casa de la niebla,  el hogar divino la casa del dios
> Huitzilopochtli, el dios que era pariente o hijo de otro dios
> chichimeca el dios  Opochtli,  ese dios de los chichimecas, cuyo culto
> se mantenía en donde ahora se dice Churubusco.
>
> Estos chichimecas  reconocieron la filiación familiar de
> Huitzilopochtli del dios de los chichimecas Mexicas con su dios
> Opochtli por la característica de ambos dioses de ser zurdos, de usar
> preferentemente mano, brazo y pierna izquierda. Rasgo de indudable
> filiación genética como correctamente destacaron los informantes del
> redactor de  la Historia de los Mexicanos por sus Pinturas, de donde
> se toma esta información
>
> El Ayauhcalli la casa de la niebla, el hogar divino de Huitzilopochtli
> el Hijo de Tlaloc donde junto con su padre Tlaloc, juntos Dios Hijo y
> Dios padre , según  el códice Aubin  vivirían y darían poder a sus
> fieles chichimecas mexicas.
>
>  Esta voluntad divina de Tlaloc la dio  a conocer cuando se entrevistó
> con el teomama llamado Axolohua, un  teomama queen  su nombre indica
> tiene facultades asombrosas como los axolotes, esos fabulosos animales
> anfibios habitantes de los lagos que hoy están en peligro de
> extinción.
>
>  Axolohua  fue sumergido en el agua hasta que se ahogo  y gracias a
> esa forma de muerte pudo llegar al Tlalocan y escuchar la palabra y
> órden divina del dios Tlaloc .
>
> Luego el dios Tlaloc como dios poderoso que era hizo un milagro y
> resucitó al teomamam  Axolohua, así como Jesús el dios cristiano
> resucito a Lázaro.
>
> Vuelto a la vida Axolohua les dijo a los demás teomamas lo que Tlaloc
> le comunicó y le   ordenó hacer señalando que Tlaloc le dijo :   “Ha
> llegado mi hijo [Huitzilopochtli], pues aquí será su casa. Pues el la
> dedicara, porque aquí viviremos unidos en la tierra”. Historia que nos
> narra el texto del  Códice Aubin.
>
> Y el hijo de Tlaloc sabemos que fue la Luna según nos dicen varias
> fuentes y además sabemos que  el dios agorero y prodigioso por eso
> llamado el Tetzauteotl,  le dijo a el chaman Huitziil que él, el dios
> Tetzauteolt era nada menos que La Luna , mexztli y por eso sus
> adoradores se llamaron mecitin.
>
> Luego el Tetzauteotl le anunció  al chaman Huitzil  que iba  morir y
> que en los  huesos del chaman Huitzil , el dios Tetzauteotl se haría a
> su imagen divina.
>
> Y así el dios Tetzauhateol, la Luna,meztli, tomando materia en los
> huesos del  chaman Huitzil se convirtió en el dios Huitzilopochtli
> según nos narra Cristobal del Castillo en su Historia de la venida de
> los Mexicanos y retoma la historia Domingo de Chimalpain en su
> memorial Breve de Culhuacan.
>
> II El Tenochtli como especie de nopal
>
>
> El Tenochtli como una especie de nopal los mejores apuntes los
> encontraras  en el escrito de Francisco del Paso y Troncoso La
> Botánica entre los nahuas  editado por Pilar Maynes y publicado por la
> SEP
>
> Troncoso ubicara imágenes del Tenochtli en el códice Mendocino, en el
> códice  Telleriano y en una obra menos conocida los grabados del padre
> Nieremberg:  HIstoria naturae maxime peregrinae publicado el año de
> 1635 .
>
> Troncoso  añade que el sabio José Fernando Ramirez , también estudió y
> opinó sobre la obra de Eusebio Nieremberg con otra interpretación
> distinta a la de Troncoso, virtiendo su punto de vista en el artículo
> de Fernando Ramirez dedicado a Hernández y que apareció en la
> Biblioteca Hispano Mexicana.
>
> Troncoso señala además que e la edición de Recchi de la obra de
> Nieremberg se omiten las  páginas que  analiza Troncoso y Ramírez.
>
> En la obra citada el sabio Troncoso  (p.137) nos dice que la imagen
> del Tenochtli está en la lámina 19 figura 16 del Códice Mendocino
> mientras que el Teo nochtli el nopal divino su imagen está en la
> lámina 44 fig13 (p. 137 op.cit).
>
> Páginas adelante analizando los grabados de Nieremberg (p309  del
> sacerdote Nieremberg) Trocoso  destaca que la planta representada ahí
> es la la Ayotli, Una Calabaza (p145)  no un nopal y la compara con la
> imagen XVI  del códice Telleriano  señalando que "estudiando el fruto
> y su apéndice por comparación, he visto que es idéntico al símbolo que
> corona las pencas del te-nochtli en la lámina XVI de la cuarta parte
> del códice Telleriano”.
>
> Maynez anota que es el año de 1478 doce conejos cuando los mexicanos
> sujetaron a Xiquipilco.
>
> http://www.famsi.org/spanish/research/loubat/Telleriano-Remensis/page_37v.jpg
>
> Efectivamente aquí en esta lámina del códice Telleriano se observa que
> el símbolo del Tenochtli se ha modificado  fuertemente respecto a su
> tradicional imagen.
>
> El Tenochtli deja de ser una especie de cruz de nopal de cuyos
> “brazos” brotan dos flores de aspecto no natuales .
>
> En esta lámina el nopal no es una cruz, no tiene el “brazo”  izquierdo
> y  carece de las grandes espinas, sigue teniendo dos flores pero ahora
> estas son representaciones pictóricas realistas y  una de ellas ahora
> brota del “cuerpo” central del nopal lo uqe no ocurre en las otras
> imágenes .
>
> Esta imagen  de la lamina 37v del Telleriano es muy distinta a todas
> las otras representaciones del Tenochtli  existentes en éste códice
> pero sigue siendo el Tenochtli .
>
> A su lado ligado al signo del año 13 caña  (1479) aparece primero el
> escudo que tradicionalmente llevan varios dioses como Huitzilopochli,
> Tezcatlipoca, la dios Tonan Icaca o Cihuacoatl , y ligado a éste
> escudo aparece una planta sobre un campo de cultivo que a mi me parece
> es una representación de una planta de maíz y no una calabaza como
> postula Troncoso
>
> Troncoso agrega "siendo de notar que el Tenochtli, casi siempre viene
> coronado por una verdadera flor". Anotando que en la imagen faltan
> algunas características biológicas de la planta y anotando una común
> característica entre las Cucurbitaceas y las Cactaceas. p146
>
> Troncoso analiza el Tenochtli de la página 310 de Nieremberg y
> señalando que este grabado es mejor que el que aparece en el códice
> Telleriano
>
> Troncoso retoma la obra de Francisco Hernández, el celebre sabio
> Novohispano, y señala que el Tenochtli es una cactácea "poniéndolo
> como idéntico a la Tuna u Opuntia, con la diferencia de que sus
> pencas, son mas largas, angostas y además torcidas; comparando, en
> efecto, la lámina de Nieremberg, que se adapta a esa descripción, con
> la de la edición romana correspondiente a la Opuntia Hernandesii (
> pp78 y 459) se nota que las pencas de ésta última son mas cortas y
> anchas. resumiendo , todo lo que he dicho acerca de las láminas de
> Nieemberg, vemos que ya no se trata de aquí de simbolísmos puros, como
> en los Anales jeroglíficos, sino mas bien de representaciones mixtas,
> persistiendo casi siempre el uso de símbolos con referencia al terreno
> en que se desarrollaba la planta, mientras que las diversas partes del
> vegetal eran dibujadas con más o menos exactitud " p147
>
> El terreno donde surge el  nopal de la variedad Tenochtli es pedregoso
> y es simbolizado por una piedra.
>
> Troncoso a partir de ello propone que la iconografía botánica de los
> nahuas era simbólica en los anales jeroglíficos pero también había
> iconografía figurativa como la que se presenta en  el caso de la obra
> de Nieremberg  pues Troncoso cita la opinión de Jose  Fernando Ramirez
> del artículo citado quien señala que:  "Las dos estampas conservadas
> en la historia de Nieremberg, y omitidas en la edición, de Recchi ,
> patentizan fueron dibujadas por calígrafos mexicanos de la antigua
> escuela, pues solamente a ellos podría ocurrírles darles las formas
> requeridas por el sistema pictográfico".  p147 Troncoso op.cit
>
> Páginas adelante en la p. 165 Troncoso señala las características
> complejas de la clasificación botánica de los nahuas que incluía
> variedad y especie y para ello toma entre otros casos el de la Tuna  o
> Nochtli ( Troncoso p165 op.cit). Donde distinguain por ejemplo a la
> tuna amarga
>
> Espero te sea útil algo de esta información y que sea de algún interés
> para los otros miembros de este foro
>
> Roberto Romero Gutierrez
> _______________________________________________
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> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>
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From mmccaffe at indiana.edu  Fri Nov  4 15:36:03 2011
From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 11:36:03 -0400
Subject: Tunas and purslane
In-Reply-To: <002c01cc99ce$dfc90e30$9f5b2a90$@net.mx>
Message-ID: <FRI.4.NOV.2011.113603.0400.MMCCAFFE@INDIANA.EDU>

Quoting David Wright <dcwright at prodigy.net.mx>:

> Estimados listeros:
>
>
>
> Has anyone seen the word tenochtli associated with a specific species of
> Opuntia in colonial or modern texts? (Other than the IB-UNAM edition of
> Francisco Hernández’s botanical treatise, that is.)
>

This is an interesting question, David. I wonder if, since Opuntiae 
look so much alike, there were species-specific qualifiers. (There is 
an opuntia that grows natively in Indiana. It's almost unbelievable.)

>
>
> How about colonial or modern Nahuatl words for purslane (verdolaga,
> Portulaca oleracea)? I have Sahagún’s itzmiquilitl (book 11, chapter 7,
> paragraph 3, folio 287r), which probably refers to this species (the
> association of the drawing and the gloss on f. 286r are probably in error,
> considering the descriptions in Spanish and Nahuatl). I also found itzmitl
> for “verdolaga” in Matías and Medina’s dictionary of the modern Nahuatl
> variety spoken in Acatlán.


I wonder why purslane is called itzmiquilitl. Did it evoke the image of 
an arrow with an obsidian point.

Michael



>
>
>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>
>
>
> Saludos,
>
>
>
> David
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>



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From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx  Fri Nov  4 16:49:06 2011
From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 10:49:06 -0600
Subject: Tunas and purslane
Message-ID: <FRI.4.NOV.2011.104906.0600.DCWRIGHT@PRODIGY.NET.MX>

Muchas gracias, Roberto y Jonathan.

 

Estoy tratando de terminar una ponencia sobre iconografía, toponimia y
botánica en los murales de Ixmiquilpan, con énfasis en los signos pictóricos
toponímicos asociados con este pueblo y con Tenochtitlan. Usualmente, pero
no siempre, los topónimos del Centro de México pasan de una lengua a otra
como calcos. Por ello los estudios translingüísticos pueden darnos luces
sobre su significado.

 

En otomí encontré relaciones más claras entre los topónimos y especies
botánicas específicas. Después pasar un tiempo viendo fuentes botánicas,
llegué a la conclusión de que la especie relacionada con uno de los nombres
otomíes del antiguo señorío de Mexico Tenochtitlan (An’bonda en las fuentes
coloniales) es Opuntia robusta (nopal de tuna tapona, o tuna de bonda como
dicen en el Valle del Mezquital), que tiene el fruto de un color
rojo-violeta saturado que mancha la boca de quien lo come. Hay dos
variedades, una doméstica con espinas cortas y escasas, y tunas grandes (en
algunas partes se llama tuna camuesa); la otra es silvestre, más espinosa y
con tunas más chicas (parece que el nombre más extendido es tuna tapona).
Ambas clases se llaman ’bonda o ’monda en el Valle del Mezquital, y
actualmente ’Monda es la palabra que usan para la ciudad de México. Hay
estudios moleculares que muestran que las dos variedades son en efecto
parientes muy cercanos, dentro de la misma especie.

 

Hasta ahora no he podido confirmar o refutar la idea de que los antiguos
nahuas hayan estado pensando en la tuna tapona cuando decían tenochtli
(independiente de toda la carga simbólica que nos menciona Roberto, que es
muy importante); queda como una hipótesis entre otras. Lo que mencioné en el
párrafo anterior la tiende a reforzar. De igual manera el otro nombre otomí
antiguo para México, Amadetsänä, “en medio de la Luna”, refuerza la
interpretación de Mexico (me:xxicco [me:tz + xic + co (tz + x > xx)] o
me:xxihco [me:tz + xic + co (tz + x > xx) (c + c > hc)]) como “en el ombligo
de la Luna”, siendo una palabra el calco de la otra, como han observado
varios autores, desde Jacques Soustelle en 1937. (Fray Antonio de Rincón,
hablante del náhuatl, en su Arte de 1595 pone “mexicco: ciudad de Mexico, i.
en medio de la luna”, lo que da más peso aún a esta manera de ver este
topónimo náhuatl.)

 

La planta que da su nombre en otomí a Ixmiquilpan es la verdolaga, Portulaca
oleracea, ts’ut’kani (o ts’ot’kani) en otomí; ambas formas significan
“hierba comestible delgada”. En este caso creo que sí hay suficiente
evidencia para vincular esta planta con la hierba comestible itzmiquilitl y
con el topónimo Itzmiquilpan. Cabe agregar que la etimología de Antonio
Peñafiel, que ha sido repetida por otros autores (por ejemplo por Frances
Berdan, en el tomo 1 de la edición de 1992 del Códice de Mendoza), no
funciona, porque se interpreta la sílaba mi como raíz de milli y no hay
manera de justificar la pérdida de la primera /l/, por lo que debe ser de
mitl, “flecha”; así el itzmiquilitl sería literalmente “la hierba comestible
de flecha de obsidiana”. Evidentemente en este caso los nombres de esta
planta no son calcos.

 

Saludos,

 

David

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From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx  Fri Nov  4 16:49:06 2011
From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 10:49:06 -0600
Subject: Tunas and purslane
In-Reply-To: <20111104113603.tz6uy84yw4cwoogw@webmail.iu.edu>
Message-ID: <FRI.4.NOV.2011.104906.0600.DCWRIGHT@PRODIGY.NET.MX>

Michael:

 

As I recently found out, Opuntia identification is a prickly (and slimy)
business. I read of a case where botanists classified the varieties in a
domestic Opuntia garden, then find that the people who planted them counted
more varieties than the scientists. When the fruits ripened it turned out
that what looked like the same variety was in fact distinct. As in other
areas of biology, genetic studies are showing the limitations of traditional
classification based on plant morphology, and the latter system is rapidly
approaching the status of being just another folk taxonomy.

 

As for purslane, you question is a good one. I don't see an obvious visual
connection between the leaves and obsidian points, but I don't have much
experience with the latter. I think you're right in thinking "edible herbs
of obsidian arrows" when you see the word itzmiquilitl (there is a distinct
-and flawed- etymology floating around). (For pictures, see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portulaca_oleracea.) The otomí word,
ts'utk'ani, appears to be a compound with ts’ut’i, “thin” and k’ani, “edible
herb”. Sometimes plant names in Otomi and Nahuatl are calques, but that’s
obviously not the case here.

 

There's more on this in another message on this list, in Spanish. Please
excuse the sudden shift in language. Sometimes I don't know what will come
out of my mouth or through my fingers. I guess Roberto's message is what
switched the channel this morning.

 

Best regards,

 

David

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From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx  Fri Nov  4 17:38:59 2011
From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 11:38:59 -0600
Subject: Tunas and purslane
Message-ID: <FRI.4.NOV.2011.113859.0600.DCWRIGHT@PRODIGY.NET.MX>

Just for the record, some underlined vowels in the Otomi words didn't
survive the trip through cyberspace:

 

An'bonda has an underlined 'a' as its last vowel;

 

ts'utk'ani has an underlined 'u';

 

ts'otk'ani has an underlined 'o';

 

ts'ut'i has an underlined 'u'.

 

For IPA equivalencies, see the chart in the Otomi section of the SUP-INFOR
website (first and last rows):

 

http://www.sup-infor.com/sources/codex_otomi/Fonemas1.htm

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From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx  Fri Nov  4 19:40:53 2011
From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 13:40:53 -0600
Subject: Tunas and purslane
Message-ID: <FRI.4.NOV.2011.134053.0600.DCWRIGHT@PRODIGY.NET.MX>

Jonathan:

 

Molina has “Tetzmitl. cierta yerua”. Since there doesn’t seem to be a noun
“tetztli”, I first thought of te + i:tz + mi:tl, but this combination should
take the form tei:tzmi:tl, considering the length of the first two vowels
and the usual patterns of elision (at least in 16th century central Mexican
Nahuatl), so I guess the first syllable must be the indefinite human
possessive prefix te:-, thus te:tzmi:tl, “someone’s obsidian arrow” or
“people’s obsidian arrow”, although I still miss the i: of i:tz(tli). The
fact that in Acatlán, Guerrero i:tzmi:tl is “verdolaga” is what most tempts
me to restore the i:.

 

Your tekono:xtli looks like the hypothetical classical Nahuatl word
teco:nno:chtli, (teco:ma - a)+ no:chtli (m + n > nn), “prickly pear of the
globular pot” or “globular prickly pear”. Both morphophonological changes
would be regular in early colonial central Nahuatl.

 

Teono:xtli as Pachycereus grandis coincides with the illustration of the
“Teonochtli” in the Codex Cruz-Badiano (f. 17v), depicting a single-column
organ pipe cactus. I suppose that would be teo:no:chtli (teo: + no:chtli) in
classical Nahuatl.

 

So far the strongest evidence I have that the word teno:chtli was used to
name a species of plant (other than the toponymical and mythical aspects
mentioned by Roberto) is the brief description given by Francisco Hernández
in the 16th century:

http://www.ibiologia.unam.mx/plantasnuevaespana/pdf/historia_de_las_plantas_
III_6_4.pdf#page=10 Other than this, the botanical use of the word seems
quite scarce throughout time and space.

 

(By the way, the Instituto de Biología of the UNAM put up a very functional
electronic version of Hernández’s botanical treatise last year. That’s where
the preceding URL is from; the home page is here:
http://www.ibiologia.unam.mx/plantasnuevaespana/ I’ve needed a resource like
this for years.)

 

Thanks again for your help. I’ll copy this to the list to see if anyone has
any more useful comments.

 

***************************************************

De:   Jonathan Amith [jdanahuatl at gmail.com]

Enviado el: viernes, 04 de noviembre de 2011 07:36

Para: roberto romero

CC:   David Wright; Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org

Asunto:     Re: [Nahuat-l] Tunas and purslane

 

Hi David,

In the Balsas valley of Guerrero tetsmitl is Portulaca oleracea L.
(verdolaga). There is a tetsmitl "look alike" í:tlatlá:k in Oapan, that is
an Aizoaceae, Trianthema portulacastrum L.

For the Opuntia I have tekono:xtli in Oapan, and teono:xtli (sic) for the
inside rods of a certain cactus, apparently Pachycereus grandis Rose, but
maybe also some Opuntias. .

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From campbel at indiana.edu  Sat Nov  5 02:29:13 2011
From: campbel at indiana.edu (Campbell, R. Joe)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 22:29:13 -0400
Subject: Plant Names
Message-ID: <FRI.4.NOV.2011.222913.0400.CAMPBEL@INDIANA.EDU>

David,

   I thought that some of my notes on plant names in the Florentine 
Codex might be of interest to you and some listero por ahi.  The notes 
are still incomplete, actually skeletal in many cases, but they might 
help by constituting a word list with page locations in the FC.  Their 
intention is to eventually give both location in the FC, as well as a 
sentence context.
But this doesn't work where Dibble and Anderson used a plant name as a 
paragraph header (e.g., item 1 below).  On the other hand, where there 
IS a sentence context, as in item 3, we get the Nahuatl context, as 
well as the English translation of the sentence.

   I am sorry for the incompleteness, but I don't know when the "in-" 
will be remedied.  I'm putting most of my current work into words that 
are more rewarding to me at my present state of ignorance of plant 
vocabulary.  That frequently involves words with a good deal of 
derivational layers.

   In the list below,
  b = book
  f = file
  c = chapter
  p = page
     (the file number is only my use in locating items for editing)
Book, chapter, and page refer to the Dibble and Anderson edition.

I'll be happy to clarify anything that is too murky.

Joe



++plant
1.  *aahuaton*.  haahuaton, .  aahuaton . <++plant> (b.11 f.16 c.7
    p.164)
2.  *acacapacquilitl*.  acacapacquilitl: .  acacapacquilitl . <a:catl
    capa:ni-l2-quilitl ++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.195)
3.  *acametl*.  acametl, mapipitzahuac, mahuihuiac yollopitzahuac. .
    the acametl has slender leaves, long leaves, a slender center. .
    <++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.217)
4.  *acaxilotic*.  acaxilotic .  acaxilotic . <a:catl-xi:lo:tl-tic
    ++plant> (b.11 f.15 c.7 p.159)
5.  *acaxilotl*.  acaxilotl: .  acaxilotl . <a:catl-xi:lo:tl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.6 p.126)
6.  *acaxilotl*.  acaxilotl: .  acaxilotl . <a:catl-xi:lo:tl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.140)
7.  *acaxilotl*.  in inelhuayo itoca, acaxilotl: cualoni, pahuaxoni. .
    the name of its root is acaxilotl; it is edible, it can be cooked
    in an olla. . <a:catl-xi:lo:tl ++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.195)
8.  *achichilacachtli*.  in quicuani: atatapalacatl, achichilacachtli.
    .  it is an eater of atatapalcatl [water plant] and
    achichilacachtli [gibbous duckweed]. . <++plant> (b.11 f.4 c.2
    p.37)
9.  *achili*.  achili, .  achilli . <++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7
    p.196)
10.  *achochoquilitl*.  achochoquilitl, .  achochoquilitl; . <-
    quilitl ++plant> (b.8 f.2 c.13 p.38)
11.  *achochoquilitl*.  achochoquilitl, .  achochoquilitl . <--quilitl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.136)
12.  *achochoquilitl*.  ahuexocaquilitl zan no ye in achochoquilitl. .
    auexocaquilitl is the same as achochoquilitl. . <--quilitl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.136)
13.  *acocohtli*.  acocotli .  acocotli . <a:tl1-co:cohtli
    ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.133)
14.  *acocohtli*.  iuhquin acocotli iquillo, huia: .  its leaves are
    long like those of the acocotli. . <a:tl1-co:cohtli ++plant>
    (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.146)
15.  *acocohxihuitl*.  acocoxihuitl: .  acocoxiuitl . <a:tl1-co:cohtli
    xihuitl1 .ah ++plant> (b.11 f.15 c.7 p.155)
16.  *acocohxihuitl*.  acocoxihuitl, .  acocoxiuitl . <a:tl1-co:cohtli
    xihuitl1 ++plant> (b.11 f.17 c.7 p.172)
17.  *acocohxihuitl*.  acocoxihuitl. .  acocoxiuitl . <a:tl1-co:cohtli
    xihuitl1 ++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.197)
18.  *acuilloxochitl*.  in ixochio iztac, iuhquin acuilloxochitl; zan
    yoaltica in cueponi, auh in cemilhuitl pictica: .  its blossom is
    white; like the acuilloxochitl it blossoms only at night and
    remains closed all day long. . <--xo:chitl +ly>ll ++plant>
    (b.11 f.17 c.7 p.177)
19.  *acuitlacpalli*.  acuitlacpalli, .  acuitlacpalli . <a:tl1
    cuitlatl-icpatl-l3 ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.135)
20.  *acuitlacpalli*.  quinenehuilia in acuitlacpalli, .  it resembles
    the acuitlacpalli herb. . <a:tl1-cuitlatl-icpatl-l3 ++plant>
    (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.135)
21.  *ahacxoyatic*.  ahacxoyatic, .  haacxoyatic . <dupl-acxoyatl-tic
    .aho ++plant> (b.11 f.18 c.7 p.181)
22.  *ahmolli*.  hamolli, .  ahmolli . <ahmo:lli ++plant> (b.11
    f.13 c.7 p.133)
23.  *ahquiztli*.  inin ahquiztli: zan xoxouhqui in mi, aya tle mocua:
    quihualpantlaza, mochi pani quihualteca in totomoctli: .  this
    aquiztli is drunk uncooked during fasting; it brings the blisters
    to the surface, it draws all the blisters to the surface. .
    <++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.131)
24.  *ahuatoto*.  ixiiucci, ixyayapalehua in omocaxani, inic pati
    tlanechicolli, quiz tlatzoyonilli, tlatlauhcapatli, tlacozazalic,
    coztomatl, atepocapatli, aatepocatic, tochtetepo, tlamacazqui
    ipapa, ahuatoto, cuachtlacalhuaztli, cuicuitlapile, cuappatli,
    tlalpatli, nantzin, mizquitlaxipehualli, tzatzayanalquiltic: .  a
    blotched face, [or] the face wheals of a woman recently delivered,
    are cured in this manner: one is to drink [an infusion of]
    assorted cooked [herbs]: tlatlauhcapatli, tlaco‡a‡alic, coztomatl,
    atepocapatli, aatepocatic, tochtetepo, tlamacazqui ipapa, aoatoto,
    quachtlacaloaztli, cuicuitlapile, quappatli, tlalpatli, nantzin,
    mizquitlaxipeoalli, tzatzayanalquiltic. . <++plant> (b.10 f.8
    c.28 p.143)
25.  *ahuatoton*.  auh mochi moneneloa in tlatlauhcapatli,
    aacaxilotic, ahuatoton, tochtetepon, zacacilin, iztac zazalic,
    atepocapatli, huei patli, iztac chichicpatli, .  and all [these]
    are mixed [with it]: tlatlauhcapatli, aacaxilotic, auatoton,
    tochtetepon, ‡acacilin, iztac ‡a‡alic, atepocapatli, uei patli,
    iztac chichic patli. . <++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.141)
26.  *ahuatzitzi*.  ixquich quinamaca in pahtli, in xihuitl, in
    cuahuitl, in tetl, in memeyallotl, tececec, iztauhyatl,
    tlacuacuitlapilli, cuicuitlapile, zazalicpatli, tlatlauhcapahtli,
    poztequizpatli, zazalic, iztac pahtli, aatepocatic, ahuatzitzi,
    tlalcacahuatl, chichipilli, tzompopoto cicimatic, .  he sells all
    things, medicines, herbs, wood, stones, milk, alum -- [the herbs]
    iztauhiatl, tlaquacuitlapilli, cuicuitlapile, ‡a‡alicpatli,
    tlatlauhcapatli, puztequizpatli io ‡a‡alic iztac patli iz
    aatepocatic, aoatzitzi, tlalcacaoatl, chichipilli, tzonpopoto,
    cicimatic. . <++plant> (b.10 f.5 c.24 p.86)
27.  *ahuexocaquilitl*.  quinamaca eloquilitl, mozoquilitl,
    tzitziquilitl, tepicquilitl, mahtzalquilitl, tzayanalquilitl,
    ahuexocaquilitl, chilquilitl, huauhquilitl, huauhquiltzontli,
    xoxocoyoli, xoxocoyolpapatla, xoxocoyolhuihuilan, cuauhxoxocoyoli,
    miccaxoxoyoli, xoxocoyolcuecuepo ayauhtona, tacanalquilitl,
    mexixi, popoyauhquilitl, atzihuequilitl, calahuauhquilitl,
    itzmiquilitl .  she sells eloquilitl, mo‡oquilitl, tzitziquilitl,
    tepicquilitl, matzalquilitl, tzayanalquilitl, auexocaquilitl,
    chilquilitl, amaranth greens, amaranth heads, several varieties of
    sorrel, ayauhtonan, tacanalquilitl, watercress, popoyauhquilitl,
    atziuequilitl, calauauhquilitl, a species of purslane. . <-
    quilitl ++plant> (b.10 f.5 c.25 p.92)
28.  *ahuexocaquilitl*.  ahuexocaquilitl zan no ye in achochoquilitl.
    .  auexocaquilitl is the same as achochoquilitl. . <--quilitl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.136)
29.  *ahxalli*.  ahxalli, .  axalli . <++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7
    p.194)
30.  *aitztolin*.  ihuan coniz in motlehuia, aitztoli, in xocoatl
    ipan. .  and when there is fever, one is to drink [an infusion of
    the root of] aitztoli in acid water. . <a:tl1-i:tztli-to:lin
    ++plant +del.n> (b.10 f.9 c.28 p.160)
31.  *aitztolin*.  aitztolin: .  aitztolin . <a:tl1-i:tztli-to:lin
    .ahf ++plant> (b.11 f.17 c.7 p.171)
32.  *amalacotl*.  huel iuhqui in atlan mochihua in amalacotl, .  it
    is just like the amalocotl, which grows in the water. . <amalacotl
    ++plant +prob> (b.11 f.15 c.7 p.156)
33.  *amalacotl*.  amamalacotl, anozo amalacotl, .  amamalacotl or
    amalacotl . <amalacotl ++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.196)
34.  *amamalacotl*.  amamalacotl, anozo amalacotl, .  amamalacotl or
    amalacotl . <--amalacotl ++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.196)
35.  *amaxtla*.  yehhuatl ommiz, in itoca coztic axixpatli, amaxtla
    inelhuayo, ahzo zan atl ipan, ahzo cacahuatl ipan: ahzo octli
    ipan, chillo, ayohuachyo, anozo zan achi pactli ipan. .  for this
    will be drunk what is named "yellow urine medicine," the root of
    [the herb] amaxtlatl, whether only in water, or in chocolate, or
    in maguey wine with chili [and] gourd seeds, or in very little
    water. . <++plant> (b.10 f.9 c.28 p.156)
36.  *anochnohpalli*.  anochnopalli, .  anochnopalli . <--no:chtli
    nohpalli ++plant> (b.11 f.12 c.6 p.123)
37.  *anochnohpalli*.  anochnopalli .  anochnopalli . <--no:chtli
    nohpalli ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.217)
38.  *aquiztli*.  haquiztli: .  aquiztli . <++plant> (b.11 f.13
    c.7 p.131)
39.  *atatapalacatl*.  inic motocayotia xalcuani, zan mochipa xalli in
    quicua: zan quemmanian atatapalacatl, in quicua: .  it is named
    xalquani because it always eats sand, though sometimes it eats
    atatapalacatl [water plants]. . <++plant> (b.11 f.4 c.2 p.36)
40.  *atatapalacatl*.  in quicuani: atatapalacatl, achichilacachtli. .
    it is an eater of atatapalcatl [water plant] and achichilacachtli
    [gibbous duckweed]. . <++plant> (b.11 f.4 c.2 p.37)
41.  *atetetzon*.  atetetzon, .  atetetzon . <++plant> (b.11 f.19
    c.7 p.195)
42.  *atlacotl*.  atlacotl, .  atlacotl . <++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7
    p.196)
43.  *atlacuezonan*.  in iquillo papatlactic, yayahualtic, itoca
    atlacuezona, .  its leaves are wide, round; it is called
    atlacue‡onan. . <++plant +prob> (b.11 f.13 c.6 p.126)
44.  *atlacuezonan*.  yahualtic, iuhquin atlacuezona ic ca. .  it is
    round; it is like the atlacue‡onan. . <++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7
    p.132)
45.  *atlacuezonan*.  inelhuayo, in atlacuezonan: .  its root is [like
    that of] the atlacue‡onan. . <+prob ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7
    p.140)
46.  *atlepahtli*.  atlepatli: .  atlepatli . <--tletl1-pahtli
    ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.131)
47.  *atlitliliatl*.  atlitliliatl: .  atlitliliatl . <++plant>
    (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.141)
48.  *atolin*.  ihuan itoca, atoli; .  also its name is atolin. .
    <a:tl1-to:lin +del.n ++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.195)
49.  *atolin*.  nicpetlachihua in tolyama in atoli. .  I make mats of
    toliaman, of atolin. . <++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.195)
50.  *atzatzamolli*.  atzatzamolli, .  atzatzamolli . <a?-dupl
    tzamolli ++plant +prob> (b.11 f.13 c.6 p.126)
51.  *atzatzamolli*.  atzatzamolli .  atzatzamolli . <a?-dupl-tzamolli
    ++plant +prob> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.140)
52.  *atzatzamolxochitl*.  in ixochio iztac, aztic, itoca
    atzatzamolxochitl: .  its blossom is white, white; its name is
    atzatzamolxochitl. . <a?-dupl-tzamolli-xo:chitl ++plant +prob>
    (b.11 f.13 c.6 p.126)
53.  *atzihuenquilitl*.  tzihuinquilitl, anozo atzihuenquilitl, .
    tziuinquilitl or atziuenquilitl . <--quilitl ++plant> (b.11
    f.13 c.7 p.135)
54.  *atzihuequilitl*.  quinamaca eloquilitl, mozoquilitl,
    tzitziquilitl, tepicquilitl, mahtzalquilitl, tzayanalquilitl,
    ahuexocaquilitl, chilquilitl, huauhquilitl, huauhquiltzontli,
    xoxocoyoli, xoxocoyolpapatla, xoxocoyolhuihuilan, cuauhxoxocoyoli,
    miccaxoxoyoli, xoxocoyolcuecuepo ayauhtona, tacanalquilitl,
    mexixi, popoyauhquilitl, atzihuequilitl, calahuauhquilitl,
    itzmiquilitl .  she sells eloquilitl, mo‡oquilitl, tzitziquilitl,
    tepicquilitl, matzalquilitl, tzayanalquilitl, auexocaquilitl,
    chilquilitl, amaranth greens, amaranth heads, several varieties of
    sorrel, ayauhtonan, tacanalquilitl, watercress, popoyauhquilitl,
    atziuequilitl, calauauhquilitl, a species of purslane. . <-
    quilitl ++plant> (b.10 f.5 c.25 p.92)
55.  *atzitzicaztli*.  in mococoa telchiquiuh: tocuitlapa, tomicicuil,
    tochiquiuhio, in nohuiyan tlatlaxhuizti in inacayo: ic moza in
    tlanechicolli, in nepapan xihuitl, tlalquequetzal, tonalxihuitl,
    atzitzicaztli, atzomiatl, .  if the chest, the back, the ribs, the
    rib cage hurt, if she aches in all parts of her body, she is
    anointed with a collection of divers herbs: tlalquequetzal,
    tonalxiuitl, atzitzicaztli, atzomiatl. . <a:tl1-tzi:tzica:ztli
    ++plant> (b.10 f.9 c.28 p.152)
56.  *atzomiatl*.  in mococoa telchiquiuh: tocuitlapa, tomicicuil,
    tochiquiuhio, in nohuiyan tlatlaxhuizti in inacayo: ic moza in
    tlanechicolli, in nepapan xihuitl, tlalquequetzal, tonalxihuitl,
    atzitzicaztli, atzomiatl, .  if the chest, the back, the ribs, the
    rib cage hurt, if she aches in all parts of her body, she is
    anointed with a collection of divers herbs: tlalquequetzal,
    tonalxiuitl, atzitzicaztli, atzomiatl. . <++plant> (b.10 f.9
    c.28 p.152)
57.  *atzomiatl*.  atzomiatl, anozo atzoyatl, .  atzomiatl or atzoyatl
    . <++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.219)
58.  *atzoyatl*.  atzomiatl, anozo atzoyatl, .  atzomiatl or atzoyatl
    . <++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.219)
59.  *axocopac*.  axocopac, anozo axocopaconi: .  axocopac or
    axocopaconii . <++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.191)
60.  *axocopaconi*.  axocopac, anozo axocopaconi: .  axocopac or
    axocopaconii . <++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.191)
61.  *ayauhchian*.  in ayauhchian: .  ayauhchien . <a:yahui-l2-chiam
    ++plant> (b.11 f.27 c.13 p.286)
62.  *ayauhchien*.  ihuan itoca: ayauhchien, .  also its name is
    ayauhchien. . <a:yahui-l2-chiam ++plant +a>e> (b.11 f.27 c.13
    p.286)
63.  *ayauhtona*.  quinamaca eloquilitl, mozoquilitl, tzitziquilitl,
    tepicquilitl, mahtzalquilitl, tzayanalquilitl, ahuexocaquilitl,
    chilquilitl, huauhquilitl, huauhquiltzontli, xoxocoyoli,
    xoxocoyolpapatla, xoxocoyolhuihuilan, cuauhxoxocoyoli,
    miccaxoxoyoli, xoxocoyolcuecuepo ayauhtona, tacanalquilitl,
    mexixi, popoyauhquilitl, atzihuequilitl, calahuauhquilitl,
    itzmiquilitl .  she sells eloquilitl, mo‡oquilitl, tzitziquilitl,
    tepicquilitl, matzalquilitl, tzayanalquilitl, auexocaquilitl,
    chilquilitl, amaranth greens, amaranth heads, several varieties of
    sorrel, ayauhtonan, tacanalquilitl, watercress, popoyauhquilitl,
    atziuequilitl, calauauhquilitl, a species of purslane. .
    <++plant> (b.10 f.5 c.25 p.92)
64.  *ayotetontli*.  mohuihuilanani, iuhquin ayotetontli: .  it is a
    creeper like the ayotetontli. . <++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7
    p.141)
65.  *ayozonan*.  quillo papatlahuac in iatlapal iuhquin, ayozona,
    tetzcaltic, yamanqui, tlatlalhuayo, .  the foliage is broad; its
    leaves are like those of the ayo‡onan -- very smooth, soft, nerve
    like. . <+del.n ++plant> (b.11 f.20 c.7 p.209)
66.  *azcalxochitl*.  azcalxochitl, iuhquin tolin .  the azcalxochitl
    is like the tolin. . <++plant> (b.11 f.20 c.7 p.209)
67.  *azcanochnohpalli*.  azcanochnopalli, .  azcanochnopalli .
    <a:zcatl-no:chtli-nohpalli ++plant> (b.11 f.12 c.6 p.124)
68.  *azcanochtli*.  in itlaaquillo: itoca azcanochtli .  the name of
    its fruit is azcanochtli. . <a:zcatl-no:chtli ++plant> (b.11
    f.12 c.6 p.124)
69.  *azcatzontecomatl*.  in patli itoca azcatzontecomatl
    ommochichipinia: .  the medicine, [an herb] named
    azcatzontecomatl, is applied as drops [in the eyes]. . <a:zcatl
    tzontli-tecomatl ++plant .ah> (b.10 f.8 c.28 p.144)
70.  *azpan*.  ic ninixamia in azpan. .  I wash my face with azpan. .
    <++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.193)
71.  *aztapili*.  in itzin in iztac, itoca aztapili, anozo oztopili. .
    the name of its white base is aztapili, or oztopili. .
    <++plant +prob> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.195)
72.  *cacahuaxochitl*.  yehhuatl in itecomayo cacahuaxochitl: .  this
    is the cup of the cacauaxochitl. . <cacahuatl-xo:chitl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.212)
73.  *cacapxon*.  cacapxon: .  cacapxon . <++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.6
    p.126)
74.  *cacomitl*.  cacomitl .  cacomitl . <++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.6
    p.126)
75.  *calahuauhquilitl*.  quinamaca eloquilitl, mozoquilitl,
    tzitziquilitl, tepicquilitl, mahtzalquilitl, tzayanalquilitl,
    ahuexocaquilitl, chilquilitl, huauhquilitl, huauhquiltzontli,
    xoxocoyoli, xoxocoyolpapatla, xoxocoyolhuihuilan, cuauhxoxocoyoli,
    miccaxoxoyoli, xoxocoyolcuecuepo ayauhtona, tacanalquilitl,
    mexixi, popoyauhquilitl, atzihuequilitl, calahuauhquilitl,
    itzmiquilitl .  she sells eloquilitl, mo‡oquilitl, tzitziquilitl,
    tepicquilitl, matzalquilitl, tzayanalquilitl, auexocaquilitl,
    chilquilitl, amaranth greens, amaranth heads, several varieties of
    sorrel, ayauhtonan, tacanalquilitl, watercress, popoyauhquilitl,
    atziuequilitl, calauauhquilitl, a species of purslane. . <-
    quilitl ++plant> (b.10 f.5 c.25 p.92)
76.  *camaxtle*.  camaxtle: .  camaxtle . <++plant> (b.11 f.12 c.6
    p.124)
77.  *camaxtle*.  in ixochicuallo, zan no itoca camaxtle, .  the name
    of its fruit is also camaxtle. . <++plant> (b.11 f.12 c.6
    p.124)
78.  *camohtli*.  inin tlanelhuatl: itoca, camotli: .  the name of
    this root is camotli. . <camohtli ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7
    p.140)
79.  *camohtli*.  cequi iztac, itoca, iztac camotli, poxcauhcamotli: .
    some are white; their name is iztac camotli [or] poxcauhcamotli. .
    <camohtli ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.140)
80.  *camohxalli*.  auh in tlacpac omoteneuh, itoca: camoxalli. .  and
    the name of those mentioned above is camoxalli. . <camohtli-xa:lli
    ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.140)
81.  *camohxihuitl*.  xihuitl xochicuallo. camoxihuitl, .  a fruit
    producing herb camoxiuitl . <camohtli-xihuitl1 ++plant> (b.11
    f.14 c.7 p.140)
82.  *caxtlatlapan*.  auh in ihcuac ye tetepotzo quiza ima, yicxi,
    coniz tlanoquiloni, itoca tlatlapanaltic inelhuayo, iuhquin
    caxtlatlapan, .  and if one's hands [and] one's feet become
    twisted, one is to drink a purgative, the root [of an herb] named
    tlatlapanaltic, which is like caxtlatlapan. . <++plant> (b.10
    f.9 c.28 p.157)
83.  *caxtlatlapan*.  in iquillo zan mohuillana iuhquin etl, iuhquin
    caxtlatlapan. .  its foliage just creeps like the bean, like the
    caxtlatlapan herb. . <++plant> (b.11 f.12 c.6 p.125)
84.  *caxtlatlapan*.  ixiuhyo: in ixochio iuhqui in caxtlatlapan
    ixochio, mohuitic. .  its blossom is like the blossom of the
    caxtlatlapan; it is dark blue. . <++plant> (b.11 f.15 c.7
    p.155)
85.  *caxtlatlapan*.  zan no quihuihuicatica in ixochio; camopaltic in
    ixochio, iuhquin caxtlatlapan: .  it also intersperses its
    blossoms; purple are its blossoms, like those of the caxtlatlapan.
    . <++plant> (b.11 f.17 c.7 p.171)
86.  *caxtlatlapan*.  caxtlatlapan, .  caxtlatlapan; . <++plant>
    (b.11 f.20 c.7 p.199)
87.  *cexochitl*.  ihuan itoca cuauheloxochitl, anozo cexochitl, .
    also its name is quauheloxochitl or cexochitl. . <++plant>
    (b.11 f.16 c.7 p.160)
88.  *chapolxihuitl*.  chapolxihuitl, .  chapolxiuitl . <chapolin
    xihuitl1 ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.149)
89.  *chian*.  inic nahui parrapho: itechpa tlatoa, in chian. .
    fourth paragraph, which telleth of chia. . <chiam ++plant>
    (b.11 f.27 c.13 p.285)
90.  *chicalotl*.  michpiltetei: anozo amilotetl, ololtic, ololauhqui
    iuhquin huauhtli, chicalotl, iztac ichyo, teteicani, teteinini, .
    michpili eggs or amilotl eggs are round, roundish, like amaranth
    or argemone mexicana [seed]: white, like maguey fiber; crunchable,
    crushable. . <chicalotl ++plant> (b.11 f.7 c.3 p.64)
91.  *chicalotl*.  ihuan itoca chicalotl, .  also its name is
    chicalotl. . <chicalotl ++plant> (b.11 f.27 c.13 p.287)
92.  *chichic pahtli*.  auh in yehhuatl, in chichic patli, itech
    quiza, itlaxipehuallo in huei cuahuitl, itoca chichic cuahuitl, .
    and this, the chichic patli, comes from the bark of a large tree
    named chichic quauitl. . <chichiya-delya-c1 pahtli ++plant
    +phrase> (b.11 f.18 c.7 p.179)
93.  *chichicaquilitl*.  chichicaquilitl: .  chichicaquilitl .
    <chichiya-delya-ca:5-quilitl ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.137)
94.  *chichientic*.  chichientic .  chichientic . <dupl-chiam-tic .aho
    ++plant +a>e> (b.11 f.15 c.7 p.153)
95.  *chichilquiltic*.  chichilquiltic, .  chichilquiltic . <dupl
    chi:lli-quilitl-tic ++plant> (b.11 f.15 c.7 p.156)
96.  *chichipelotl*.  niman ye ic nextamalxochitia: niman mitoa,
    chichipelotl, .  then it becomes the nixtamal flower; now it is
    called chichipelotl. . <++plant> (b.11 f.27 c.13 p.283)
97.  *chichipilin*.  coni chichipili inelhuayo, chichicaquilitl,
    tececec, xocoatl: .  one drinks [an infusion of the root of]
    chichipilli, [with] alum [and] acid water. . <dupl-chipilin +del.n
    ++plant> (b.10 f.9 c.28 p.159)
98.  *chichipiltic*.  auh ompa coni in iztac patli, in chichipiltic,
    ihuan achiton chilli, iztac octli ipan, ic pati, ic moyahua in
    eztli. .  and there one drinks [an infusion of the root of] iztac
    patli, chichipiltic, and a little chili, [or one drinks it] in
    white maguey wine to cure, to circulate, the blood. . <dupl
    chipilin-tic ++plant> (b.10 f.9 c.28 p.162)
99.  *chichipiltic*.  chichipiltic, .  chichipiltic . <dupl-chipilin
    tic ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.144)
100.  *chilachtli*.  in ixiuhyo, xoxoctic, yahualtotonti, iuhqui in
    chilachtli, cuahuitztoton: .  its foliage is green, small and
    round, like the chilachtli; the ends are pointed. . <++plant>
    (b.11 f.18 c.7 p.182)
101.  *chilpanton*.  chilpanton, .  chilpanton . <chi:lli-pan-to:n
    ++plant> (b.11 f.15 c.7 p.155)
102.  *chilpanton*.  monamictia in ixiuhyo chilpanton. .  the foliage
    of chilpanton is added. . <chi:lli-pan-to:n ++plant> (b.11
    f.16 c.7 p.168)
103.  *chilpanton*.  auh in chilpanton, omito in quenami. .  and it
    has been told how chilpanton [is used]. . <chi:lli-pan-to:n
    ++plant> (b.11 f.16 c.7 p.168)
104.  *chilpanton*.  inin tlanelhuatl: monamiqui in inelhuayo
    chilpanton, mocenteci: .  this root is mixed with the root of the
    chilpanton; they are ground together. . <chi:lli-pan-to:n
    ++plant> (b.11 f.17 c.7 p.174)
105.  *chilpanton*.  in chilpanto ye omito in quenami. .  the
    characteristics of the chilpanton have already been mentioned. .
    <chi:lli-pan-to:n +del.n ++plant> (b.11 f.17 c.7 p.174)
106.  *chilquilitl*.  quinamaca eloquilitl, mozoquilitl,
    tzitziquilitl, tepicquilitl, mahtzalquilitl, tzayanalquilitl,
    ahuexocaquilitl, chilquilitl, huauhquilitl, huauhquiltzontli,
    xoxocoyoli, xoxocoyolpapatla, xoxocoyolhuihuilan, cuauhxoxocoyoli,
    miccaxoxoyoli, xoxocoyolcuecuepo ayauhtona, tacanalquilitl,
    mexixi, popoyauhquilitl, atzihuequilitl, calahuauhquilitl,
    itzmiquilitl .  she sells eloquilitl, mo‡oquilitl, tzitziquilitl,
    tepicquilitl, matzalquilitl, tzayanalquilitl, auexocaquilitl,
    chilquilitl, amaranth greens, amaranth heads, several varieties of
    sorrel, ayauhtonan, tacanalquilitl, watercress, popoyauhquilitl,
    atziuequilitl, calauauhquilitl, a species of purslane. . <chi:lli
    quilitl ++plant> (b.10 f.5 c.25 p.92)
107.  *chilquilitl*.  iuhquin chilquilitl ixiuhyo: .  its leaves are
    like those of the chilquilitl. . <chi:lli-quilitl ++plant>
    (b.11 f.15 c.7 p.158)
108.  *chimalacatl*.  chimalacatl: xochio, iticoyonqui. .  the
    chimalacatl has blossoms; it is hollow. . <chi:malli-a:catl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.220)
109.  *chimalnanacatl*.  chimalnanacatl: .  chimalnanacatl .
    <chi:malli-dupl-nacatl ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.132)
110.  *chipilin*.  atliz, in iiauh chipili, coatli, ahzo achi vino,
    ahzo achi octli, .  he is to drink the water of the chipili herb,
    [or infusions of] coatli, or a little wine, or a little maguey
    wine. . <chipilin +del.n ++plant> (b.10 f.9 c.28 p.150)
111.  *cicimatic*.  ixquich quinamaca in pahtli, in xihuitl, in
    cuahuitl, in tetl, in memeyallotl, tececec, iztauhyatl,
    tlacuacuitlapilli, cuicuitlapile, zazalicpatli, tlatlauhcapahtli,
    poztequizpatli, zazalic, iztac pahtli, aatepocatic, ahuatzitzi,
    tlalcacahuatl, chichipilli, tzompopoto cicimatic, .  he sells all
    things, medicines, herbs, wood, stones, milk, alum -- [the herbs]
    iztauhiatl, tlaquacuitlapilli, cuicuitlapile, ‡a‡alicpatli,
    tlatlauhcapatli, puztequizpatli io ‡a‡alic iztac patli iz
    aatepocatic, aoatzitzi, tlalcacaoatl, chichipilli, tzonpopoto,
    cicimatic. . <dupl-cimatl-tic ++plant> (b.10 f.5 c.24 p.86)
112.  *cicimatic*.  cicimatic .  cicimatic . <dupl-cimatl-tic
    ++plant> (b.11 f.18 c.7 p.184)
113.  *cihuapahtli*.  inamic cihuapatli motzoyonia, tlillo, ihuan
    mocenneloa totoltetl itehuilotca, .  its remedy is ciuapatli
    [leaves] cooked together with lampblack and [the white of] an egg.
    . <cihua:tl-pahtli ++plant> (b.10 f.9 c.28 p.155)
114.  *cihuapahtli*.  cihuapatli, .  ciuapatli . <cihua:tl-pahtli
    ++plant> (b.11 f.18 c.7 p.179)
115.  *cihuapahtli*.  conitia, in aquin cihuatl, in amo huel ic
    mixihui in omito, cihuapatli: .  they give this [in water] as a
    drink to the woman who cannot give birth, as is already mentioned
    [regarding] ciuapatli. . <cihua:tl-pahtli ++plant> (b.11 f.18
    c.7 p.180)
116.  *cihuapahtli*.  in ihcuac miz can mixcahuiz: amo achtopa miz in
    omito cihuapatli, anozo nopalli: .  when it is to be drunk, it is
    just this alone, in preference to drinking the aforementioned
    ciuapatli or nopal. . <cihua:tl-pahtli ++plant> (b.11 f.18 c.7
    p.181)
117.  *cimaquilitl*.  in ixiuhyo itoca, cuahueco, tel no itoca
    cimaquilitl: .  the name of its foliage is quaueco, but also its
    name is cimaquilitl. . <cimatl-quilitl ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7
    p.132)
118.  *cimatl*.  cimatl; .  cimatl . <cimatl ++plant> (b.11 f.13
    c.6 p.125)
119.  *cimatl*.  cimatl .  cimatl . <cimatl ++plant> (b.11 f.13
    c.7 p.132)
120.  *cimatl*.  in inelhuayo, iuhquin cimatl ic tomahuac, .  its root
    is like that of cimatl; it is just as thick. . <cimatl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.148)
121.  *cimatl*.  cenca chichic, huihuiac iztac, mimiltotonti, iuhquin
    cimatl: .  [the root] is very bitter, long, white, small and
    cylindrical, like that of the cimatl. . <cimatl ++plant> (b.11
    f.15 c.7 p.151)
122.  *cimatl*.  in inelhuayo coztic iuhquin cimatl: .  its root is
    yellow, like that of the cimatl. . <cimatl ++plant> (b.11 f.15
    c.7 p.157)
123.  *cimatontli*.  auh in inelhuayo, achi za huiac: za ce iuhquin
    cimatontli: .  and its root is somewhat long, single, like a small
    cimatl [root]. . <cimatl-to:n-tl ++plant> (b.11 f.15 c.7
    p.157)
124.  *coanenepilli*.  ihuan toquichcocol, ihuan cihuacocolli
    monamictia in coanenepilli, ic pati, quiquixtia in netlacolli, in
    cochtemictli: .  and for ailments of men and women, coanenepilli
    is added, to cure, to remove the ailment, [or for] nocturnal
    emissions. . <co:a:tl-nenetl-pilli ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7
    p.148)
125.  *coanenepilli*.  coanenepilli, .  coanenetilli . <co:a:tl-nenetl
    pilli ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.148)
126.  *coatzontecomaxochitl*.  coatzontecomaxochitl: .
    coatzontecomaxochitl . <co:a:tl-tzontli-tecomatl-xo:chitl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.211)
127.  *coaxoxouhqui*.  coaxoxouhqui, .  coaxoxouhqui . <co:a:tl-dupl
    xo:tl2-v11-prt1-c2 ++plant> (b.11 f.17 c.7 p.171)
128.  *coaxoxouhqui*.  zan monomahuia in mopapachoa, in ihcuac oitech
    quiz in ye ic ihuinti coaxoxouhqui. .  he acted of his own
    volition; he massaged himself when it had taken effect, when
    already he was drunk from the coaxoxouhqui. . <co:a:tl-dupl-xo:tl2
    v11-prt1-c2 ++plant> (b.11 f.17 c.7 p.172)
129.  *coayielli*.  coayielli, .  coayielli . <++plant> (b.11 f.14
    c.7 p.145)
130.  *cocopi*.  cocopi: .  cocopi . <++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7
    p.187)
131.  *cocotl*.  cocotl: unos bledos que son como cenizos o cenilcos
    de espa¤a .  cocotl amaranth which is like spanish goosefoot .
    <++plant> (b.11 f.27 c.13 p.286)
132.  *colotzitzicaztli*.  tzitzicaztli, anozo colotzitzicaztli: .
    tzitzicaztli or colotzitzicaztli . <co:lli-v03a-caus06-l2
    tzi:tzica:ztli ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.146)
133.  *coyocuechi*.  quin onez, iuhquin coyocuechi, .  when it
    appeared, it was like the coyocuechi herb. . <++plant> (b.11
    f.14 c.7 p.139)
134.  *coyocuexi*.  in quicua: tonalchichicaquilitl, cuanacaquilitl,
    coyocuexi, tetzitzili; .  it eats tonalchichicaquilitl,
    quanacaquilitl, coyocuexi, tetzitzili herbs. . <++plant> (b.11
    f.6 c.2 p.53)
135.  *coyocuexi*.  coyocuexi, .  coyocuexi . <++plant> (b.11 f.13
    c.7 p.137)
136.  *coyotomatl*.  coyototomatl, coyotomatl: .  coyototomatl [or]
    coyotomatl . <coyo:tl-tomatl ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.141)
137.  *coyotomatl*.  coyotomatl: .  coyotomatl . <coyo:tl-tomatl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.144)
138.  *coyototomatl*.  coyototomatl, coyotomatl: .  coyototomatl [or]
    coyotomatl . <coyo:tl--tomatl ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.141)
139.  *coyoxochitl*.  no huel monamictia in coyoxochitl, ihuan
    tecomaxochitl mocenneloa, .  also coyoxochitl and tecomoxochitl
    are added, mixed all together. . <coyo:tl-xo:chitl ++plant>
    (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.146)
140.  *cozcacuauhxihuitl*.  cozcacuauhxihuitl, .  cozcaquauhxiuitl .
    <co:zcatl-cua:uhtli-xihuitl1 ++plant +need:tree> (b.11 f.17
    c.7 p.177)
141.  *coznochnohpalli*.  coznochnopalli, .  coznochnopalli . <coztli
    no:chtli-nohpalli ++plant> (b.11 f.12 c.6 p.123)
142.  *coznochnohpalli*.  coznochnopalli .  coznochnopalli . <coztli
    no:chtli-nohpalli ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.217)
143.  *coztomatl*.  coztomatl, .  coztomatl . <coztli-tomatl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.15 c.7 p.151)
144.  *cuahueco*.  in xihuitl in itoca cuahueco: .  the name of its
    foliage is quaueco. . <++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.6 p.125)
145.  *cuahueco*.  in ixiuhyo itoca, cuahueco, tel no itoca
    cimaquilitl: .  the name of its foliage is quaueco, but also its
    name is cimaquilitl. . <++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.132)
146.  *cuahueco*.  cuahueco: .  quaueco . <++plant> (b.11 f.27
    c.13 p.285)
147.  *cuahuichpolli*.  cuahuichpolli. .  quauichpolli . <++plant>
    (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.196)
148.  *cuahuitzquilitl*.  cuahuitzquilitl .  cuauitzquilitl . <-
    quilitl ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.137)
149.  *cuahuitzquilitl*.  cuahuitzquilitl quitocayotia. .  they give
    it the name quauitzquilitl. . <--quilitl ++plant> (b.11 f.13
    c.7 p.137)
150.  *cuahuiyexochitl*.  cuahuiyexochitl: zan ye no yehhuatl. .  the
    quauhyiexochitl is the same. . <cuahuitl-iyetl-xo:chitl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.20 c.7 p.198)
151.  *cuahuiztixochitl*.  cuauhacaxochitl. cuauhiztexochitl,
    cuahuiztixochitl, .  quauhacaxochitl. quauhiztexochitl,
    quauhiztixochitl . <cua:uhtli-iztitl-xo:chitl ++plant> (b.11
    f.21 c.7 p.211)
152.  *cuammamaxtla*.  cuammamaxtla. .  quammamaxtla . <++plant
    +wm>mm> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.196)
153.  *cuanacaquilitl*.  in quicua: tonalchichicaquilitl,
    cuanacaquilitl, coyocuexi, tetzitzili; .  it eats
    tonalchichicaquilitl, quanacaquilitl, coyocuexi, tetzitzili herbs.
    . <cua:itl-nacatl-quilitl ++plant> (b.11 f.6 c.2 p.53)
154.  *cuanacaquilitl*.  cuanacaquilitl: .  quanacaquilitl . <cua:itl
    nacatl-quilitl ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.139)
155.  *cuanacaquilitl*.  yehhuatl oquitocayotique cuanacaquilitl:
    ipampa ic huapahua in totolme, .  they named this quanacaquilitl,
    because the fowls are nourished by it. . <cua:itl-nacatl-quilitl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.139)
156.  *cuapopoltzin*.  cuapopoltzin, .  quapopoltzin . <cua:itl-dupl
    po:l-tzin ++plant> (b.11 f.16 c.7 p.166)
157.  *cuappatlachtli*.  in ihcuac mochihua cuauhtlacacahuatl in ayac
    quitoca: itoca, teocacahuatl, ihuan cuappatlachtli, ihuan in
    tonacayotl: .  when wild cacao grows -- which no one plants --
    called teocacauatl and quappatlachtli, [it eats these] and maize.
    . <cuahuitl-patla:hua-l2 +w>ch +wp>pp ++plant> (b.11 f.1 c.1
    p.4)
158.  *cuauhacaxochitl*.  cuauhacaxochitl. cuauhiztexochitl,
    cuahuiztixochitl, .  quauhacaxochitl. quauhiztexochitl,
    quauhiztixochitl . <cua:uhtli-a:catl-xo:chitl ++plant> (b.11
    f.21 c.7 p.211)
159.  *cuauhcamohtli*.  cuauhcamotli .  quauhcamotli . <cuahuitl
    camohtli ++plant> (b.11 f.12 c.6 p.125)
160.  *cuauheloquilitl*.  cuauheloquilitl, .  quauheloquilitl .
    <cuahuitl-e:lo:tl-quilitl ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.136)
161.  *cuauheloquiltic*.  cuauheloquiltic .  quauheloquiltic .
    <++plant> (b.11 f.16 c.7 p.160)
162.  *cuauheloxochitl*.  ihuan itoca cuauheloxochitl, anozo
    cexochitl, .  also its name is quauheloxochitl or cexochitl. .
    <cuahuitl-e:lo:tl-xo:chitl ++plant> (b.11 f.16 c.7 p.160)
163.  *cuauhiztexochitl*.  cuauhacaxochitl. cuauhiztexochitl,
    cuahuiztixochitl, .  quauhacaxochitl. quauhiztexochitl,
    quauhiztixochitl . <cua:uhtli-iztitl-xo:chitl ++plant +i>e>
    (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.211)
164.  *cuauhnanacatl*.  cuauhnanacatl, .  quauhnanacatl . <cuahuitl
    dupl-nacatl ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.132)
165.  *cuauholli*.  ihuan itoca cuauholli. .  its name is also
    quauholli. . <++plant> (b.11 f.16 c.7 p.161)
166.  *cuauhtapahzoltontli*.  cuauhtapazoltontli, .  it is a small
    bush. . <cuahuitl-tatl-pahzotl-v01b-delya-l1-to:n-tl ++plant>
    (b.11 f.17 c.7 p.173)
167.  *cuauhtzontetl*.  in inelhuayo. tetelquic, iuhquin
    cuauhtzontetl, .  its root is harsh to the taste, like that of the
    quauhtzontetl. . <cuahuitl-tzontli-tetl1 ++plant> (b.11 f.18
    c.7 p.184)
168.  *cuauhxihuitl*.  ihuan itoca cuauhxihuitl: .  also its name is
    quauhxiuitl. . <cuahuitl-xihuitl1 ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7
    p.147)
169.  *cuauhxiuhtic*.  cuauhxiuhtic, .  quauhxiuhtic . <++plant>
    (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.192)
170.  *cuauhxoxocoyoli*.  quinamaca eloquilitl, mozoquilitl,
    tzitziquilitl, tepicquilitl, mahtzalquilitl, tzayanalquilitl,
    ahuexocaquilitl, chilquilitl, huauhquilitl, huauhquiltzontli,
    xoxocoyoli, xoxocoyolpapatla, xoxocoyolhuihuilan, cuauhxoxocoyoli,
    miccaxoxoyoli, xoxocoyolcuecuepo ayauhtona, tacanalquilitl,
    mexixi, popoyauhquilitl, atzihuequilitl, calahuauhquilitl,
    itzmiquilitl .  she sells eloquilitl, mo‡oquilitl, tzitziquilitl,
    tepicquilitl, matzalquilitl, tzayanalquilitl, auexocaquilitl,
    chilquilitl, amaranth greens, amaranth heads, several varieties of
    sorrel, ayauhtonan, tacanalquilitl, watercress, popoyauhquilitl,
    atziuequilitl, calauauhquilitl, a species of purslane. .
    <++plant> (b.10 f.5 c.25 p.92)
171.  *cuauhxoxocoyoli*.  cuauhxoxocoyoli, .  quauhxoxocoyoli .
    <cuahuitl-- ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.139)
172.  *cuauhyayahual*.  mocenneloa, cuahuayahual, ihuan iztahuatl. .
    it is mixed together with quauhyayaual and iztauhiatl. . <cuahuitl
    dupl-yahualli-trunc ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.147)
173.  *cuauhyayahual*.  mocoxonia, amo mopalticateci, moneloa in
    cuauhyayahual ixiuhyo. yehhuatl in iamatlapal, ihuan ixochio. .
    [its leaves] are ground up dry, not wet, mixed with the foliage of
    the quauhyayaual: that is, with its leaves and its blossoms. .
    <cuahuitl-dupl-yahualli-trunc ++plant> (b.11 f.17 c.7 p.178)
174.  *cuaztalxochitl*.  cuaztalxochitl: .  quaztalxochitl . <cua:itl
    iztatl-v01b-delya-l1-xo:chitl ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.212)
175.  *cuezalmetl*.  cuezalmetl .  cue‡almetl . <cuezalin-metl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.217)
176.  *cuicuilnochnohpalli*.  cuicuilnochnopalli: .
    cuicuilnochnopalli . <--no:chtli-nohpalli ++plant> (b.11 f.12
    c.6 p.123)
177.  *cuicuilnochtli*.  in itech quiza, itoca cuicuilnochtli, .  from
    it come [the tunas] named cuicuilnochtli. . <++plant> (b.11
    f.12 c.6 p.123)
178.  *cuicuitlapileh*.  cuicuitlapile, cuitlapile. .  cuicuitlapile
    [or] cuitlapile . <dupl-cuitlatl-pilli-eh1 ++plant> (b.11 f.14
    c.7 p.141)
179.  *cuitlacintli*.  ihuan quitocayotia cuitlacintli, .  also it is
    named cuitlacintli. . <cuitlatl-centli ++plant> (b.11 f.27
    c.13 p.281)
180.  *cuitlapahtli*.  cuitlapatli, .  cuitlapatli . <++plant>
    (b.11 f.18 c.7 p.185)
181.  *cuitlapileh*.  cuicuitlapile, cuitlapile. .  cuicuitlapile [or]
    cuitlapile . <cuitlatl-pilli-eh1 ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7
    p.141)
182.  *eeloquiltic*.  auh inic mitoa eeloquiltic, quinenehuilia in
    eloquilitl, .  and for this reason it is called eloquiltic: it
    resembles eloquilitl. . <dupl-e:lo:tl-quilitl-tic ++plant>
    (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.143)
183.  *eeloquiltic*.  ihuan in yehhuatl in, in inelhuayo ixyayahual:
    mixnamiqui in eeloquiltic: ipahyo in aquin maxixtzacua, in ye
    itipozahua: .  and the root of this ixyayaual added to [the leaves
    of] the eloquiltic is a medicine for one who has dysuria, when the
    abdomen swells. . <dupl-e:lo:tl-quilitl-tic .ah ++plant> (b.11
    f.15 c.7 p.150)
184.  *eeloquiltic*.  eeloquiltic, .  eeloquiltic . <dupl-e:lo:tl
    quilitl-tic .ah ++plant> (b.11 f.15 c.7 p.150)
185.  *ehcapahtli*.  hecapatli: .  hecapatli . <e:catl-pahtli
    ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.147)
186.  *eloquilitl*.  quinamaca eloquilitl, mozoquilitl, tzitziquilitl,
    tepicquilitl, mahtzalquilitl, tzayanalquilitl, ahuexocaquilitl,
    chilquilitl, huauhquilitl, huauhquiltzontli, xoxocoyoli,
    xoxocoyolpapatla, xoxocoyolhuihuilan, cuauhxoxocoyoli,
    miccaxoxoyoli, xoxocoyolcuecuepo ayauhtona, tacanalquilitl,
    mexixi, popoyauhquilitl, atzihuequilitl, calahuauhquilitl,
    itzmiquilitl .  she sells eloquilitl, mo‡oquilitl, tzitziquilitl,
    tepicquilitl, matzalquilitl, tzayanalquilitl, auexocaquilitl,
    chilquilitl, amaranth greens, amaranth heads, several varieties of
    sorrel, ayauhtonan, tacanalquilitl, watercress, popoyauhquilitl,
    atziuequilitl, calauauhquilitl, a species of purslane. . <e:lo:tl
    quilitl ++plant> (b.10 f.5 c.25 p.92)
187.  *eloquilitl*.  eloquilitl, .  eloquilitl . <e:lo:tl-quilitl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.136)
188.  *eloquilitl*.  auh inic mitoa eeloquiltic, quinenehuilia in
    eloquilitl, .  and for this reason it is called eloquiltic: it
    resembles eloquilitl. . <e:lo:tl-quilitl ++plant> (b.11 f.14
    c.7 p.143)
189.  *eloquilitl*.  nanacace: in iquillo, iuhquin eloquilitl: .  the
    foliage of nanacace is like that of eloquilitl. . <e:lo:tl-quilitl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.144)
190.  *eloquilitl*.  auh in iquillo, zan no iuhquin eloquilitl. .  its
    foliage is just like that of the eloquilitl. . <e:lo:tl-quilitl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.144)
191.  *eloquilitl*.  tlacotic, xoxoctic iuhquin eloquilitl
    iiamatlapal, .  it is stalky, green; its leaves are like those of
    the eloquilitl. . <e:lo:tl-quilitl ++plant> (b.11 f.15 c.7
    p.150)
192.  *eloquiltic*.  eloquiltic, .  eloquiltic . <e:lo:tl-quilitl-tic
    ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.143)
193.  *eloxochinelhuatl*.  eloxochineloatl .  eloxochinelhuatl .
    <e:lo:tl-xo:chitl-nelhuatl ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.142)
194.  *elozacatl*.  elozacatl, .  elo‡acatl . <e:lo:tl-zacatl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.194)
195.  *epazotl*.  epazotl, .  epa‡otl . <epazo:tl ++plant> (b.11
    f.19 c.7 p.193)
196.  *etenquilitl*.  etenquilitl, .  etenquilitl . <etl-te:ntli
    quilitl ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.136)
197.  *ezoquilitl*.  in iamatlapal, patlahuac: iuhquin excan
    xeliuhtica, iuhquin ezoquilitl in ixiuhyo: .  its leaf is broad,
    divided as if in three parts like the foliage of the e‡oquilitl. .
    <eztli--quilitl ++plant> (b.11 f.18 c.7 p.184)
198.  *huahuauhtzin*.  iztac cuahuitl, anozo huahuauhtzi: .  Iztac
    quauitl or uauauhtzin . <dupl-hua:uhtli-tzin +del.n ++plant>
    (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.148)
199.  *huahuauhtzin*.  huahuauhtzin, .  huahuauhtzin, . <dupl
    hua:uhtli-tzin ++plant> (b.11 f.15 c.7 p.158)
200.  *huahuauhtzin*.  in ihcuac in quinamictia matlalin ixochio,
    ixochio, ihuan huahuauhtzin mocenteci, .  at this time they add
    the blossom of the matlalin; its blossom and uauauhtzin are ground
    up together. . <dupl-hua:uhtli-tzin ++plant> (b.11 f.15 c.7
    p.158)
201.  *huahuauhtzin*.  huahuauhtzin, .  uauauhtzin . <dupl-hua:uhtli
    tzin ++plant> (b.11 f.15 c.7 p.159)
202.  *huahuauhtzon*.  monamiqui in huahuauhtzon .  uauauhtzin is
    added. . <dupl-hua:uhtli-tzontli? ++plant> (b.11 f.16 c.7
    p.160)
203.  *huappapalotl*.  no itoca huappapalotl: in iamatlapal huauhtli,
    in manozo iquillo: in ihcuac ye chicahua, in ye iucci huauhtli
    iiatlapal: .  amaranth leaves or foliage are also called
    uappapalotl when the amaranth leaves already become mature, ripe.
    . <hua:uhtli-pa:pa:lo:tl ++plant +wp>pp> (b.11 f.10 c.5 p.95)
204.  *huauhquilitl*.  cualoni xihuitl: huauhquilitl .  uauhquilitl,
    an edible herb . <hua:uhtli-quilitl .ah ++plant> (b.11 f.13
    c.7 p.133)
205.  *huauhquilitl*.  im iahuayo, itzon in huauhquilitl, .  it is the
    prickly, the hairy part of the uauhquilitl. . <hua:uhtli-quilitl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.133)
206.  *huauhquilitl*.  huei huauhquilitl, anozo tehuuauhquilitl, .
    uei uauhquilitl or teouauhquilitl . <hua:uhtli-quilitl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.135)
207.  *huauhquilitl*.  xoxoctic: in itlacoyo, tlacuahuac: in
    iamatlapal, iuhqui in huauhquilitl, tentzitziquiltic, papatlahuac:
    .  it is green, its stalk is tough, its leaves are like those of
    the uauhquilitl, serrated on the edges, wide. . <hua:uhtli-quilitl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.18 c.7 p.182)
208.  *huauhquilitl*.  inin itlachieliz quiltic, iuhquin huauhquilitl.
    .  its appearance is herb-green, like the amaranth herb. .
    <hua:uhtli-quilitl ++plant> (b.11 f.22 c.8 p.223)
209.  *huauhtli*.  in imiyahuayo, itoca huauhtontli, in ixinachyo
    itoca huauhtli: .  the name of its spikelets is uauhtzontli; the
    name of its seeds is uauhtli. . <hua:uhtli ++plant> (b.11 f.27
    c.13 p.286)
210.  *huauhtontli*.  in imiyahuayo, itoca huauhtontli, in ixinachyo
    itoca huauhtli: .  the name of its spikelets is uauhtzontli; the
    name of its seeds is uauhtli. . <hua:uhtli-to:n ++plant> (b.11
    f.27 c.13 p.286)
211.  *huauhtzontli*.  huauhtzontli: .  uauhtzontli . <hua:uhtli
    tzontli ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.133)
212.  *huauhzacatl*.  huauhzacatl: .  Uauh‡acatl . <hua:uhtli-zacatl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.194)
213.  *huauhzacatl*.  inic mitoa, huauhzacatl: cenca xinachio, cenca
    huauhyo, .  for this reason is it called uauh‡acatl: it has many
    seeds, much like amaranth. . <hua:uhtli-zacatl ++plant> (b.11
    f.19 c.7 p.194)
214.  *huehuexochitl*.  huehuexochitl: .  ueuexochitl . <.ahh
    ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.210)
215.  *huexotl*.  moteci zatepan, ihuan in ixiuhyo huexotl; .  then
    they are ground up along with the foliage of the [quetzal]uexotl.
    . <huexo:tl ++plant> (b.11 f.17 c.7 p.169)
216.  *huihuitzquiltic*.  huihuitzquiltic: .  uiuitzquiltic . <dupl
    huitztli-quilitl-tic ++plant> (b.11 f.16 c.7 p.160)
217.  *huitzitzilmetl*.  huitzitzilmetl: zan cualton, zan huel
    ipanton, texotic. .  the uitzitzilmetl is of average small size;
    it is moderately small, blue. . <huitztli-dupl-tzili:ni-l2-+folk
    metl ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.217)
218.  *huitzitzilxochitl*.  huitzitzilxochitl .  uitzitzilxochitl .
    <huitztli-dupl-tzili:ni-l2-+folk-xo:chitl +tztz>tz ++plant>
    (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.192)
219.  *huitzocuitlapilli*.  huitzocuitlapilli .  uitzocuitlapilli .
    <++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.6 p.127)
220.  *huitzocuitlapilli*.  inelhuayo: mimiltic: in itoca
    huitzocuitlapilli .  its root is cylindrical; its name is
    uitzocuitlapilli. . <++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.6 p.127)
221.  *huitzocuitlapilli*.  huitzocuitlapill i, xochiopiaztic,
    iticoyonqui, chichic. .  the uitzocuitlapilli has slender
    blossoms; it is hollow, bitter. . <++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7
    p.220)
222.  *huitzocuitlapilxihuitl*.  cococ xihuitl, cococ patli, anozo
    huitzocuitlapilxihuitl, .  cococ xiuitl, cococ patli, or
    uitzocuitlapilxiuitl . <--cuitlatl-pilli-xihuitl1 ++plant>
    (b.11 f.15 c.7 p.152)
223.  *huitzocuitlapilxihuitl*.  huitzocuitlapilxihuitl: .
    uitzocuitlapilxiuitl . <--cuitlatl-pilli-xihuitl1 ++plant>
    (b.11 f.16 c.7 p.163)
224.  *huitzpalxochitl*.  huitzpalxochitl. .  uitzpalxochitl .
    <huitztli--xo:chitl ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.210)
225.  *huitzquilitl*.  huitzquilitl, .  uitzquilitl . <huitztli
    quilitl ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.137)
226.  *huitzquilitl*.  zan ye no yehhuatl in huitzquilitl: .  this one
    is the same as uitzquilitl. . <huitztli-quilitl ++plant> (b.11
    f.13 c.7 p.137)
227.  *huitzquilitl*.  yece yehhuatl in tlalhuacpan, in cuauhtla
    mochihua huitzquilitl: .  however, this uitzquilitl grows in the
    dry lands, in the forests. . <huitztli-quilitl ++plant> (b.11
    f.13 c.7 p.137)
228.  *huitzquilitl*.  quinenehuilia in huitzquilitl: .  it resembles
    uitzquilitl. . <huitztli-quilitl ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7
    p.137)
229.  *huitzquilitl*.  iuhquin huitzquilitl iquillo: auh in itzintlan
    iuhquin zacatl. .  its leaves are like those of uitzquilitl, but
    its root is like grass. . <huitztli-quilitl ++plant> (b.11
    f.14 c.7 p.145)
230.  *huitzquilitl*.  huel iuhqui in caxtillan huitzquilitl, zan
    tepiton, cemiztitontli inic mahuihuiac: .  it is just like the
    thistle of castile, only it is small; the branches are one span
    long. . <huitztli-quilitl ++plant> (b.11 f.16 c.7 p.160)
231.  *icelehua*.  icelehua .  iceleua . <++plant> (b.11 f.15 c.7
    p.155)
232.  *ichcatolcimatl*.  ichcatolcimatl cenca texyo, cuitlatolonton: .
    ichcatolcimatl is of very fine texture [and] a little large. .
    <ichcatl-to:lin-cimatl ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.140)
233.  *ichcayo*.  ichcayo .  ichcayo . <ichcatl-yo:tl1 ++plant>
    (b.11 f.16 c.7 p.162)
234.  *ihhuixochitl*.  ihhuixochitl: .  iuixochitl . <ihhuitl-xo:chitl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.211)
235.  *ihhuixochitl*.  tlapalihhuixochitl: zan ye yehhuatl in
    ihhuixochitl, yece chichiltic. .  the tlapaliuixochitl is the same
    as the iuixochitl; however, it is chili-red. . <ihhuitl-xo:chitl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.211)
236.  *ihhuixochitl*.  iztac ihhuixochitl: zan ye yehhuatl in
    ihhuixochitl, yece iztac: iuhquin iztac ihhuitl. .  the iztac
    iuixochitl is the same as the iuixochitl; however, it is white,
    like a white feather. . <ihhuitl-xo:chitl ++plant> (b.11 f.21
    c.7 p.211)
237.  *ihhuixochitl*.  iztac ihhuixochitl: zan ye yehhuatl in
    ihhuixochitl, yece iztac: iuhquin iztac ihhuitl. .  the iztac
    iuixochitl is the same as the iuixochitl; however, it is white,
    like a white feather. . <ihhuitl-xo:chitl ++plant> (b.11 f.21
    c.7 p.211)
238.  *ihuintiquilitl*.  yuintiquilitl. .  iuintiquilitl . <--quilitl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.197)
239.  *itzcuimpahtli*.  itzcuimpatli, .  itzcuinpatli . <itzcuintli
    pahtli ++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.193)
240.  *itzietl*.  itzietl: .  itzietl . <++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7
    p.147)
241.  *itzmiquilitl*.  ocommotoptemilito, ocommopetlacaltemilito in
    imitzmolinca, in incelica: in ayauhtonan, in tzitziquilitl, in
    itzmiquilitl, in tepicquilitl, in ixquich in celic, in
    itzmolinqui, .  they have gone placing in retreat their freshness,
    their tenderness, the ayauhtonan, the tzitziquilitl, the
    itzmiquilitl, the tepicquilitl herbs, all the tender, the fresh
    [ones]. . <i:tztli-mi:tl-quilitl ++plant> (b.6 f.3 c.8 p.36)
242.  *itzmiquilitl*.  quinamaca eloquilitl, mozoquilitl,
    tzitziquilitl, tepicquilitl, mahtzalquilitl, tzayanalquilitl,
    ahuexocaquilitl, chilquilitl, huauhquilitl, huauhquiltzontli,
    xoxocoyoli, xoxocoyolpapatla, xoxocoyolhuihuilan, cuauhxoxocoyoli,
    miccaxoxoyoli, xoxocoyolcuecuepo ayauhtona, tacanalquilitl,
    mexixi, popoyauhquilitl, atzihuequilitl, calahuauhquilitl,
    itzmiquilitl .  she sells eloquilitl, mo‡oquilitl, tzitziquilitl,
    tepicquilitl, matzalquilitl, tzayanalquilitl, auexocaquilitl,
    chilquilitl, amaranth greens, amaranth heads, several varieties of
    sorrel, ayauhtonan, tacanalquilitl, watercress, popoyauhquilitl,
    atziuequilitl, calauauhquilitl, a species of purslane. . <i:tztli
    mi:tl-quilitl ++plant> (b.10 f.5 c.25 p.92)
243.  *itzmiquilitl*.  itzmiquilitl, .  itzmiquitl . <i:tztli-mi:tl
    quilitl ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.133)
244.  *itztolin*.  itztolin, .  itztolin . <i:tztli-to:lin
    ++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.194)
245.  *itztoncuahuitl*.  itztoncuahuitl, .  itztonquauitl .
    <++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.193)
246.  *itztoncuahuitl*.  itztoncuahuitl: .  itztonquauitl .
    <++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.193)
247.  *itztoncuahuitl*.  itztoncuahuitl. .  itztonquauitl . <-
    cuahuitl ++plant> (b.11 f.27 c.13 p.287)
248.  *ixnexton*.  ixnexton .  ixnexton . <i:xtli-nextli-to:n
    ++plant> (b.11 f.15 c.7 p.153)
249.  *ixyayahual*.  ommotequilia in xihuitl itoca ixyayahual, ihuan
    eeloquiltic moneloa, .  herbs named ixyayaual and eloquiltic are
    cut, [ground up, and] mixed together. . <i:xtli-dupl-yahualli
    trunc ++plant +xy>xy> (b.10 f.9 c.28 p.151)
250.  *ixyayahual*.  ixyayahual. .  ixyayaual . <i:xtli-dupl-yahualli
    trunc ++plant +xy>xy> (b.11 f.15 c.7 p.150)
251.  *ixyayahual*.  ihuan in yehhuatl in, in inelhuayo ixyayahual:
    mixnamiqui in eeloquiltic: ipahyo in aquin maxixtzacua, in ye
    itipozahua: .  and the root of this ixyayaual added to [the leaves
    of] the eloquiltic is a medicine for one who has dysuria, when the
    abdomen swells. . <i:xtli-dupl-yahualli-trunc ++plant +xy>xy>
    (b.11 f.15 c.7 p.150)
252.  *iyamoli*.  yiamoli, .  yiamolli . <++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7
    p.133)
253.  *iyamoli*.  iyamoli, .  yiamolli . <++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7
    p.220)
254.  *iyauhtli*.  yiauhtli: .  yiauhtli . <++plant> (b.11 f.14
    c.7 p.145)
255.  *iyauhtli*.  yiauhtli, .  yiauhtli . <++plant> (b.11 f.19
    c.7 p.192)
256.  *iyauhtli*.  intechalpan mochihua yiauhtli: .  it is yiauhtli
    which grows among the rocks. . <++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7
    p.197)
257.  *iyauhtli*.  quitoa, itlatla in yiauhtli. .  they say it
    resembles yiauhtli. . <++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.197)
258.  *iyexochitl*.  zazan ye iyexochitl, .  it is just an ordinary
    yiexochitl. . <iyetl-xo:chitl ++plant> (b.11 f.20 c.7 p.198)
259.  *iyexochitl*.  iyexochitl, .  yiexochitl . <iyetl-xo:chitl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.20 c.7 p.208)
260.  *iyexochitl*.  coztic iyexochitl: .  coztic yiexochitl . <iyetl
    xo:chitl ++plant> (b.11 f.20 c.7 p.208)
261.  *iyexochitl*.  zan ye yehhuatl in iyexochitl, yece tzoyac oxiyo,
    tzoyaya. .  it is the same as the yiexochitl; however, it is
    fetid, resinous; it emits a fetid odor. . <iyetl-xo:chitl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.20 c.7 p.209)
262.  *iztaquilitl*.  iztaquilitl, .  iztaquilitl . <iztatl-quilitl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.137)
263.  *iztaquilitl*.  in iquillo, iuhquin iztaquilitl, .  its foliage
    is like that of the iztac quilitl. . <iztatl-quilitl ++plant>
    (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.143)
264.  *iztaquilitl*.  in iamatlapalton, xoxoctic, iuhqui in
    iztaquilitl, mimiltotonti, .  its little leaves are green, small,
    round like those of the iztaquilitl. . <iztatl-quilitl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.149)
265.  *iztaquilitl*.  huel iuhquin iztaquilitl: .  it is just like the
    iztaquilitl. . <iztatl-quilitl ++plant> (b.11 f.15 c.7 p.157)
266.  *iztaquilitl*.  iuhqui in iztaquilitl: .  it is like the
    iztaquilitl. . <iztatl-quilitl ++plant> (b.11 f.15 c.7 p.159)
267.  *iztaquilitl*.  in ixochio iztacatontli; in iquillo huel iuhqui
    in iamatlapal iztaquilitl, .  its blossoms are small and white;
    its foliage is just like the leaves of the iztac quilitl. .
    <iztatl-quilitl ++plant> (b.11 f.18 c.7 p.181)
268.  *iztaquiltic*.  iztaquiltic .  iztaquiltic . <iztatl-v01b-delya
    c1-quilitl-tic ++plant> (b.11 f.15 c.7 p.157)
269.  *iztaquiltic*.  iztaquiltic, .  iztaquilitl . <iztatl-quilitl
    tic ++plant> (b.11 f.15 c.7 p.160)
270.  *iztauhyatia*.  tzonquiza, iztauhyatia, .  the spikelets emerge;
    it becomes like the iztauhyatl herb. . <++plant> (b.11 f.27
    c.13 p.288)
271.  *iztauhyatl*.  moneloa in iztauhyatl. .  it is mixed with
    iztauhiatl. . <++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.146)
272.  *iztauhyatl*.  mocenneloa, cuahuayahual, ihuan iztahuatl. .  it
    is mixed together with quauhyayaual and iztauhiatl. .
    <++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.147)
273.  *iztauhyatl*.  iztauhyatl. .  iztauhyatl . <++plant> (b.11
    f.16 c.7 p.165)
274.  *iztauhyatl*.  zan no iuhqui in caxtillan iztauhyatl chichic: .
    it is bitter, just like the wormwood of castile. . <++plant>
    (b.11 f.16 c.7 p.165)
275.  *iztauhyatl*.  auh in ihcuac aca huel ic mimiqui in iyollopan in
    omocentlali alahuac: moteci in iztauhyatl, ihuan in cuauhyayahual
    yehhuatl in iyollo itlacoyo: moxixipehua in ipan iehuayo, .  and
    when someone is anguished in his heart, or a humor is oppressive,
    iztauhyatl and quauhyayaual are ground up, that is, the center of
    the stalks; its surface bark is peeled off. . <++plant> (b.11
    f.16 c.7 p.165)
276.  *iztauhyatl*.  iztahuatl, .  iztauhyatl . <++plant> (b.11
    f.19 c.7 p.192)
277.  *mahtzalquilitl*.  quinamaca eloquilitl, mozoquilitl,
    tzitziquilitl, tepicquilitl, mahtzalquilitl, tzayanalquilitl,
    ahuexocaquilitl, chilquilitl, huauhquilitl, huauhquiltzontli,
    xoxocoyoli, xoxocoyolpapatla, xoxocoyolhuihuilan, cuauhxoxocoyoli,
    miccaxoxoyoli, xoxocoyolcuecuepo ayauhtona, tacanalquilitl,
    mexixi, popoyauhquilitl, atzihuequilitl, calahuauhquilitl,
    itzmiquilitl .  she sells eloquilitl, mo‡oquilitl, tzitziquilitl,
    tepicquilitl, matzalquilitl, tzayanalquilitl, auexocaquilitl,
    chilquilitl, amaranth greens, amaranth heads, several varieties of
    sorrel, ayauhtonan, tacanalquilitl, watercress, popoyauhquilitl,
    atziuequilitl, calauauhquilitl, a species of purslane. . <-
    quilitl ++plant> (b.10 f.5 c.25 p.92)
278.  *mamaxtla*.  mamaxtla: .  mamaxtla . <dupl-ma:xatl--
    ++plant> (b.11 f.16 c.7 p.166)
279.  *mamaxtla*.  mocenteci in inelhuayo mamaxtla, ihuan inelhuayo
    xaltomatl .  the root of mamaxtla and the root of xaltomatl are
    ground up together. . <dupl-ma:xatl-- ++plant> (b.11 f.16 c.7
    p.166)
280.  *maticehuac*.  maticehuac, .  maticeuac . <ma:itl-ti:zatl-e:hua
    c1 ++plant> (b.11 f.18 c.7 p.182)
281.  *maxten*.  maxten: .  maxten . <++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7
    p.139)
282.  *mecaxochitl*.  no yehhuatl coni in cacahuatl ipan huei
    nacaztli, ipan tlilxochitl, mecaxochitl ipan: .  also one drinks
    chocolate with uey nacaztli, with tlilxochitl, with mecaxochitl. .
    <mecatl-xo:chitl ++plant> (b.11 f.2 c.1 p.12)
283.  *mecaxochitl*.  mecaxochitl: .  mecaxochitl . <mecatl-xo:chitl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.192)
284.  *mecaxochitl*.  mecaxochitl: .  mecaxochitl . <mecatl-xo:chitl
    .ahh ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.210)
285.  *memeya*.  memeya .  memeya . <dupl-me:ya ++plant> (b.11
    f.16 c.7 p.161)
286.  *memeyal*.  oc cenca yehhuatl quitemoa in xihuitl, in itoca
    memeyal: intlan calaqui, .  especially they seek out the plants
    called memeyal; they penetrate among them. . <dupl-me:ya-l1
    ++plant> (b.11 f.10 c.5 p.92)
287.  *memeyal*.  memeyal, .  memeyal . <dupl-me:ya-l1 ++plant>
    (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.197)
288.  *menanacatl*.  menanacatl: .  menanacatl . <metl-dupl-nacatl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.132)
289.  *mexihuitl*.  mexihuitl, .  mexiuitl . <metl-xihuitl1
    ++plant> (b.11 f.16 c.7 p.163)
290.  *mexixin*.  mexixin, .  mexixin . <mexixin ++plant> (b.11
    f.13 c.7 p.138)
291.  *miccaxoxocoyoli*.  miccaxoxocoyoli: .  miccaxoxocoyoli .
    <++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.138)
292.  *miccaxoxoyoli*.  quinamaca eloquilitl, mozoquilitl,
    tzitziquilitl, tepicquilitl, mahtzalquilitl, tzayanalquilitl,
    ahuexocaquilitl, chilquilitl, huauhquilitl, huauhquiltzontli,
    xoxocoyoli, xoxocoyolpapatla, xoxocoyolhuihuilan, cuauhxoxocoyoli,
    miccaxoxoyoli, xoxocoyolcuecuepo ayauhtona, tacanalquilitl,
    mexixi, popoyauhquilitl, atzihuequilitl, calahuauhquilitl,
    itzmiquilitl .  she sells eloquilitl, mo‡oquilitl, tzitziquilitl,
    tepicquilitl, matzalquilitl, tzayanalquilitl, auexocaquilitl,
    chilquilitl, amaranth greens, amaranth heads, several varieties of
    sorrel, ayauhtonan, tacanalquilitl, watercress, popoyauhquilitl,
    atziuequilitl, calauauhquilitl, a species of purslane. .
    <++plant> (b.10 f.5 c.25 p.92)
293.  *miltomatl*.  monamictia chilcoztli, ihuan matlactetl
    ayohuachtli, ihuan miltomatl, .  yellow chili and ten gourd seeds
    and the [juice of] small tomatoes are added. . <mi:lli-tomatl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.149)
294.  *mizquiquilitl*.  mizquiquilitl, .  mizquiquilitl . <mizquitl
    quilitl ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.135)
295.  *mizquitl*.  in iamatlapal huel iuhqui in huei mizquitl. .  its
    leaves are just like those of the uei mizquitl. . <mizquitl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.15 c.7 p.157)
296.  *mozoquilitl*.  quinamaca eloquilitl, mozoquilitl,
    tzitziquilitl, tepicquilitl, mahtzalquilitl, tzayanalquilitl,
    ahuexocaquilitl, chilquilitl, huauhquilitl, huauhquiltzontli,
    xoxocoyoli, xoxocoyolpapatla, xoxocoyolhuihuilan, cuauhxoxocoyoli,
    miccaxoxoyoli, xoxocoyolcuecuepo ayauhtona, tacanalquilitl,
    mexixi, popoyauhquilitl, atzihuequilitl, calahuauhquilitl,
    itzmiquilitl .  she sells eloquilitl, mo‡oquilitl, tzitziquilitl,
    tepicquilitl, matzalquilitl, tzayanalquilitl, auexocaquilitl,
    chilquilitl, amaranth greens, amaranth heads, several varieties of
    sorrel, ayauhtonan, tacanalquilitl, watercress, popoyauhquilitl,
    atziuequilitl, calauauhquilitl, a species of purslane. . <-
    quilitl ++plant> (b.10 f.5 c.25 p.92)
297.  *mozoquilitl*.  mozoquilitl, .  mo‡oquilitl . <--quilitl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.136)
298.  *nacaztli*.  no yehhuatl coni in cacahuatl ipan huei nacaztli,
    ipan tlilxochitl, mecaxochitl ipan: .  also one drinks chocolate
    with uey nacaztli, with tlilxochitl, with mecaxochitl. . <nacaztli
    ++plant> (b.11 f.2 c.1 p.12)
299.  *nanacaceh*.  tzipipatli, anozo nanacace, .  tzipipatli or
    nanacace . <dupl-nacaztli-eh1 ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.144)
300.  *nanacaceh*.  nanacace: in iquillo, iuhquin eloquilitl: .  the
    foliage of nanacace is like that of eloquilitl. . <dupl-nacaztli
    eh1 ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.144)
301.  *nanacaceh*.  in nanacace chillocan huallauh: in huei patli,
    tezcatepec. .  nanacace comes from chillocan, uei patli from
    tezcatepec. . <dupl-nacaztli-eh1 ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7
    p.144)
302.  *nanacatl*.  nanacatl, cuauhtla nanacatl: amo xoxouhcacualoni,
    huel iuccini, .  mushrooms, mushrooms of the forest are not edible
    uncooked: they are to be well cooked. . <dupl-nacatl ++plant>
    (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.132)
303.  *nanahuaxihuitl*.  nanahuaxihuitl, .  nanauaxiuitl .
    <na:na:huatl-xihuitl1 ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.145)
304.  *necuametl*.  necuametl, .  nequametl . <neuctli-a:tl1-metl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.218)
305.  *netzoli*.  netzoli; .  netzoli . <netzolli ++plant
    +l.for.ll> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.218)
306.  *neuctic*.  neuctic .  necutic . <neuctli-tic ++plant> (b.11
    f.14 c.7 p.145)
307.  *nexhuauhtli*.  ihuan itoca nexhuauhtli, .  also its name is
    nexuauhtli. . <nextli-hua:uhtli ++plant> (b.11 f.27 c.13
    p.286)
308.  *nexmetl*.  nexmetl, menextic, nextic, nexehuac, xiuhtototic. .
    the nexmetl is an ashen maguey, ash-colored, ashen, like the
    lovely cotinga. . <nextli-metl ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.216)
309.  *nextamalxochitl*.  nextamalxochitl, .  nextamalxochitl .
    <nextli-tamalli-xo:chitl ++plant> (b.11 f.20 c.7 p.200)
310.  *nochnohpalli*.  iztac nochnopalli .  Iztac nochnopalli .
    <no:chtli-nohpalli ++plant> (b.11 f.12 c.6 p.123)
311.  *nohpallacotl*.  nopallacotl; pipiaztic, xochio xoxochio. .  the
    nopallacotl is slender; it has a blossom, it has blossoms. .
    <nohpalli-tlaco:tl ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.220)
312.  *nohpalli*.  in ihcuac miz can mixcahuiz: amo achtopa miz in
    omito cihuapatli, anozo nopalli: .  when it is to be drunk, it is
    just this alone, in preference to drinking the aforementioned
    ciuapatli or nopal. . <nohpalli ++plant> (b.11 f.18 c.7
    p.181)
313.  *nohpalxochitl*.  nopalxochitl: .  nopalxochitl . <nohpalli
    xo:chitl ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.210)
314.  *nopalocoxochitl*.  nopalocoxochitl, .  nopalocoxochitl .
    <nohpalli-oco:tl-xo:chitl ++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.197)
315.  *ocelometl*.  ocelometl, cuicuiltic, mocuicuilo .  the ocelometl
    is varicolored -- variously colored. . <o:ce:lo:tl-metl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.216)
316.  *oceloxochitl*.  oceloxochitl: .  oceloxochitl . <o:ce:lo:tl
    xo:chitl ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.212)
317.  *oceloxochitl*.  inic mitoa; oceloxochitl, in coztic
    motlatlapalalpichi: in chichiltic, motetecozauhalpichi, .  it is
    called oceloxochitl for the reason that the yellow ones are
    sprinkled with red, the chili-red ones are sprinkled with yellow.
    . <o:ce:lo:tl-xo:chitl ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.212)
318.  *ocopetlatl*.  ocopetlatl, .  ocopetlatl . <oco:tl-petlatl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.196)
319.  *ocopiaztli*.  ocopiaztli, anozo tlilpotonqui, .  ocopiaztli or
    tlilpotonqui . <oco:tl-piya:ztli ++plant> (b.11 f.16 c.7
    p.168)
320.  *ocoxochitl*.  ocoxochitl, .  ocoxochitl . <oco:tl-xo:chitl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.192)
321.  *ocoxochitl*.  quinenehuilia in ocoxochitl. .  it is the same as
    the ocoxochitl. . <oco:tl-xo:chitl ++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7
    p.197)
322.  *ocoxochitl*.  ocoxochitl: .  ocoxochitl . <oco:tl-xo:chitl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.213)
323.  *ocozacatl*.  ocozacatl, .  Oco‡acatl . <oco:tl-zacatl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.194)
324.  *ocozacatl*.  ocozacatl nicnotlapehualtia, nicnoxacaltia. .  I
    begin, I make myself a hut with oco‡acatl. . <oco:tl-zacatl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.194)
325.  *olocintli*.  ihuan itoca olocintli, .  also its name is
    olotzintli. . <o:lo:tl-tzin ++plant> (b.11 f.27 c.13 p.279)
326.  *oloxochitl*.  oloxochitl: .  oloxochitl . <o:lo:tl-xo:chitl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.211)
327.  *oloxochitl*.  in icueponca, itoca oloxochitl, .  the name of
    its blossom is oloxochitl. . <o:lo:tl-xo:chitl ++plant> (b.11
    f.21 c.7 p.211)
328.  *omixochitl*.  zan niman tlaltitech in mamatlapaltia, huihuiac
    patlactotonti, xoxoctic: iuhqui in iamatlapal caxtillan
    omixochitl, .  the leaves form right next to the ground; they are
    long, broad, green like the leaves of the spanish omixochitl. .
    <omitl-xo:chitl ++plant> (b.11 f.15 c.7 p.151)
329.  *omixochitl*.  omixochitl, ahzo iztac omixochitl, anozo
    tlapalomixochitl; .  omixochitl, or white omixochitl, or colored
    omixochitl . <omitl-xo:chitl ++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.198)
330.  *omixochitl*.  omixochitl, ahzo iztac omixochitl, anozo
    tlapalomixochitl; .  omixochitl, or white omixochitl, or colored
    omixochitl . <omitl-xo:chitl ++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.198)
331.  *omixochitl*.  omixochitl: .  omixochitl . <omitl-xo:chitl .ahh
    ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.210)
332.  *omixochitl*.  cuamalacachton, tzimpitzahuac huiyacatontli: inic
    motocayotia omixochitl, .  [it is like] a small spindle whorl on
    top; the base is slender, a little long; therefore it is named
    omixochitl. . <omitl-xo:chitl ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.210)
333.  *oquichpahtli*.  no ihuan itoca oquichpatli .  and also its name
    is oquichpatli. . <oquichtli-pahtli ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7
    p.145)
334.  *oquichpahtli*.  oquichpatli, .  oquichpatli . <oquichtli-pahtli
    ++plant> (b.11 f.18 c.7 p.182)
335.  *oquichpahtli*.  oquichpatli, .  oquichpatli . <oquichtli-pahtli
    ++plant> (b.11 f.18 c.7 p.185)
336.  *oquichxochitl*.  cempoalxochitl oquichxochitl zan ce iix, amo
    xochiamatlapaltilahuac. .  the male cempoalxochitl has only a
    single flower, with thin petals. . <oquichtli-xo:chitl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.214)
337.  *ozomahcuitlapilxochitl*.  ozomacuitlapilxochitl .
    o‡omacuitlapilxochitl . <ozomahtli-cuitlatl-pilli-xo:chitl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.210)
338.  *oztopili*.  in itzin in iztac, itoca aztapili, anozo oztopili.
    .  the name of its white base is aztapili, or oztopili. .
    <++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.195)
339.  *patayametl*.  patimetl, anozo patayametl: .  patimetl or
    patayametl . <++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.217)
340.  *patimetl*.  patimetl, anozo patayametl: .  patimetl or
    patayametl . <++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.217)
341.  *petlatolin*.  petlatolli, .  petlatolli . <petlatl-to:lin
    ++plant +ll.for.l +del.n> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.195)
342.  *petlatolin*.  zan no yehhuatl in petlatoli, .  it is the same
    as the petlatoli. . <petlatl-to:lin ++plant +del.n> (b.11 f.19
    c.7 p.195)
343.  *petzicatl*.  ihcuac in oc tepiton cualoni; in ye huei itoca
    petzicatl, anozo pitzicatl .  when still small, it is edible; when
    larger its name is petzicatl or pitzicatl. . <++plant> (b.11
    f.13 c.7 p.133)
344.  *petzicatl*.  in ihuauhyo itoca petzicatl anozo pitzicatl. .
    the name of its seeds is petzicatl or pitzicatl. . <++plant>
    (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.133)
345.  *petzicatl*.  petzicatl: una yerua cuya semilla comen las
    galinas. .  petzicatl a plant whose seeds the chickens eat .
    <++plant> (b.11 f.27 c.13 p.287)
346.  *petzicatl*.  in oc tepitoton, in quin ixhua: itoca quiltonili,
    in ixinachyo itoca petzicatl, .  when still small, after it
    germinates, its name is quiltontli; the name of its seed is
    petzicatl. . <++plant> (b.11 f.27 c.13 p.287)
347.  *petzicatl*.  ihuan in ohueix, in ye tzone: no itoca petzicatl.
    .  and when it has grown, when it already has spikelets, its name
    is also petzicatl. . <++plant> (b.11 f.27 c.13 p.287)
348.  *peyotl*.  peyotl: .  peyote . <peyotl ++plant> (b.11 f.13
    c.7 p.127)
349.  *peyotl*.  peyotl: .  peyote . <peyotl ++plant> (b.11 f.14
    c.7 p.147)
350.  *pitzicatl*.  ihcuac in oc tepiton cualoni; in ye huei itoca
    petzicatl, anozo pitzicatl .  when still small, it is edible; when
    larger its name is petzicatl or pitzicatl. . <++plant> (b.11
    f.13 c.7 p.133)
351.  *pitzicatl*.  in ihuauhyo itoca petzicatl anozo pitzicatl. .
    the name of its seeds is petzicatl or pitzicatl. . <++plant>
    (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.133)
352.  *popoyauhquilitl*.  quinamaca eloquilitl, mozoquilitl,
    tzitziquilitl, tepicquilitl, mahtzalquilitl, tzayanalquilitl,
    ahuexocaquilitl, chilquilitl, huauhquilitl, huauhquiltzontli,
    xoxocoyoli, xoxocoyolpapatla, xoxocoyolhuihuilan, cuauhxoxocoyoli,
    miccaxoxoyoli, xoxocoyolcuecuepo ayauhtona, tacanalquilitl,
    mexixi, popoyauhquilitl, atzihuequilitl, calahuauhquilitl,
    itzmiquilitl .  she sells eloquilitl, mo‡oquilitl, tzitziquilitl,
    tepicquilitl, matzalquilitl, tzayanalquilitl, auexocaquilitl,
    chilquilitl, amaranth greens, amaranth heads, several varieties of
    sorrel, ayauhtonan, tacanalquilitl, watercress, popoyauhquilitl,
    atziuequilitl, calauauhquilitl, a species of purslane. . <dupl
    poya:hui-l2-quilitl ++plant> (b.10 f.5 c.25 p.92)
353.  *poxcauhcamohtli*.  cequi iztac, itoca, iztac camotli,
    poxcauhcamotli: .  some are white; their name is iztac camotli
    [or] poxcauhcamotli. . <poxcahui-l2-camohtli ++plant> (b.11
    f.14 c.7 p.140)
354.  *poyomahxochitl*.  poyomaxochitl: .  poyomaxochitl . <poyomahtli
    xo:chitl ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.212)
355.  *pozahuizpahtli*.  pozahuizpatli, .  po‡auizpatli . <poza:hua
    lizb-pahtli ++plant> (b.11 f.15 c.7 p.157)
356.  *quetzalmitzquitl*.  quetzalmitzquitl: .  quetzalmizquitl .
    <quetzalli-mizquitl ++plant> (b.11 f.17 c.7 p.176)
357.  *quetzalmizquitl*.  mocenteci, zan aquitzin in ixiuhyo
    quetzalmizquitl: xiuhiyac, ihuan inelhuayo xaltomatl, ihuan
    inelhuayo coztomatl. .  ground together are a very little of the
    tips of quetzalmizquitl foliage and the root of the tomato and the
    root of the yellow tomato. . <quetzalli-mizquitl ++plant>
    (b.11 f.17 c.7 p.176)
358.  *quetzalmizquitl*.  auh in yehhuatl in, in etlamanixti huel miz,
    zan mixcahuiz: anozo zan ipan calacoaz temazcalco, aocmo quimatiz
    inic totonqui temazcalli. auh in ihcuac ohualquiz temazcalco,
    anozo oachiton concua: oc no achi coniz in quetzalmizquitl. .  and
    this can be drunk in all of three ways: this alone is used; or
    just as one is to enter the sweat bath -- no longer will he feel
    the heat of the sweat bath, and when he has left the sweat bath,
    or has eaten a little, he is still to drink a little of the
    quetzalmizquitl. . <quetzalli-mizquitl ++plant> (b.11 f.17 c.7
    p.177)
359.  *quetzalmizquitl*.  in xaltomatl, in coztomatl; ye omito in
    quenami in quetzalmizquitl. .  the characteristics of the tomato,
    of the yellow tomato, of the quetzalmizquitl have already been
    told. . <quetzalli-mizquitl ++plant> (b.11 f.17 c.7 p.177)
360.  *quetzalocoxochitl*.  quetzalocoxochitl: .  quetzalocoxochitl .
    <oco:tl-xo:chitl-xo:chitl ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.213)
361.  *quiltonili*.  in oc tepitoton, in quin ixhua: itoca quiltonili,
    in ixinachyo itoca petzicatl, .  when still small, after it
    germinates, its name is quiltontli; the name of its seed is
    petzicatl. . <++plant> (b.11 f.27 c.13 p.287)
362.  *quiltonili*.  zan iyo in quiltonili cualoni: .  only the
    quiltontli is edible. . <quilitl-to:n-- ++plant> (b.11 f.27
    c.13 p.288)
363.  *quiltonilli*.  quiltonilli, .  quiltonilli . <quilitl--
    ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.133)
364.  *quiltonilli*.  inin quiltonilli huauhyo; tliltic .  this
    quiltonilli has black seeds. . <quilitl-- ++plant> (b.11 f.13
    c.7 p.133)
365.  *quimichpahtli*.  quimichpatli, .  quimichpatli . <quimichin
    pahtli ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.131)
366.  *quimichpahtli*.  inic mitoa quimichpatli: in quiquimichti,
    tlacualli quin nelhuia, intla quicua ic mimiqui, tlatlacocotoca in
    incuitlaxcol. .  it is called quimichpatli for this reason: it is
    food [for] mice, because, it is asserted, if they eat it, they die
    of it; their intestines break up. . <quimichin-pahtli ++plant>
    (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.131)
367.  *quiyoxochitl*.  quiyoxochitl: .  quiyoxochitl . <quiyotl
    xo:chitl ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.213)
368.  *tacanalli*.  tacanalli ixiuhyo, .  its leaves are tacanalli. .
    <tacanalli ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.135)
369.  *tacanalquilitl*.  quinamaca eloquilitl, mozoquilitl,
    tzitziquilitl, tepicquilitl, mahtzalquilitl, tzayanalquilitl,
    ahuexocaquilitl, chilquilitl, huauhquilitl, huauhquiltzontli,
    xoxocoyoli, xoxocoyolpapatla, xoxocoyolhuihuilan, cuauhxoxocoyoli,
    miccaxoxoyoli, xoxocoyolcuecuepo ayauhtona, tacanalquilitl,
    mexixi, popoyauhquilitl, atzihuequilitl, calahuauhquilitl,
    itzmiquilitl .  she sells eloquilitl, mo‡oquilitl, tzitziquilitl,
    tepicquilitl, matzalquilitl, tzayanalquilitl, auexocaquilitl,
    chilquilitl, amaranth greens, amaranth heads, several varieties of
    sorrel, ayauhtonan, tacanalquilitl, watercress, popoyauhquilitl,
    atziuequilitl, calauauhquilitl, a species of purslane. .
    <tacanalli-quilitl ++plant> (b.10 f.5 c.25 p.92)
370.  *tacanalquilitl*.  achto motlanoquilia, zatepan quitoc, in
    cualoni xaltotomatl inelhuayo, quinamiqui, in tacanalquilitl
    inelhuayo, .  first one is purged; then [an infusion from] the
    edible root of the sand tomato is drunk, adding to it the root of
    tacanalquilitl. . <tacanalli-quilitl ++plant> (b.10 f.9 c.28
    p.160)
371.  *tacanalquilitl*.  tacanalquilitl, .  tacanalquilitl .
    <tacanalli-quilitl ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.135)
372.  *tacanalxihuitl*.  tacanalxihuitl: .  tacanalxiuitl . <tacanalli
    xihuitl1 ++plant> (b.11 f.15 c.7 p.154)
373.  *tamalayohtli*.  tamalayotli cuecueyo cacahuayo .  the
    tamalayotli gourd has ridges; it is cacao-bean-like. . <tamalli
    ayohtli ++plant> (b.11 f.27 c.13 p.288)
374.  *tecolonochnohpalli*.  tecolonochnopalli, .  tecolonochnopalli .
    <tecolo:tl-no:chtli-nohpalli ++plant> (b.11 f.12 c.6 p.124)
375.  *tecolonochnohpalli*.  tecolonochnopalli: .  tecolonochnopalli .
    <tecolo:tl-no:chtli-nohpalli ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.218)
376.  *tecolonochtli*.  tlapalnextic in ixochicuallo: auh itoca
    tecolonochtli, .  its fruit is ashen-red, and its name is
    tecolonochtli. . <tecolo:tl-no:chtli ++plant> (b.11 f.12 c.6
    p.124)
377.  *tecomaxochitl*.  no huel monamictia in coyoxochitl, ihuan
    tecomaxochitl mocenneloa, .  also coyoxochitl and tecomoxochitl
    are added, mixed all together. . <tecomatl-xo:chitl ++plant>
    (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.146)
378.  *tecomaxochitl*.  tecomaxochitl: .  tecomaxochitl . <tecomatl
    xo:chitl ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.146)
379.  *tecpaholotl*.  tecpatli, tecpaolotl, .  tecpatli, tecpalotl .
    <tecpahtli-o:lo:tl ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.133)
380.  *tecpahtli*.  tecpatli, tecpaolotl, .  tecpatli, tecpalotl .
    <tecpahtli ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.133)
381.  *tehtzonquilitl*.  tehtzonquilitl: .  tetzonquilitl . <--quilitl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.136)
382.  *tememetla*.  auh in ihcuac omoten, quiz in tlanechicolli, in
    itoca tememetla, tececec, ihuan texiotl, tlachinoltetzmitl .  and
    when she has taken a hot bath, she is to drink [an infusion of]
    assorted [herbs], named tememetla, tececec, texiotl,
    tlachinoltetzmitl. . <tetl1-dupl-metlatl-trunc ++plant> (b.10
    f.9 c.28 p.152)
383.  *tememetla*.  tememetla, .  tememetla . <tetl1-dupl-metlatl
    trunc ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.145)
384.  *tememetla*.  in quemman, zan mixcahuia: anozo moneloa in
    tememetla. .  sometimes [it is used] alone, or it is mixed with
    tememetla. . <tetl1-dupl-metlatl-trunc ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7
    p.145)
385.  *tememetla*.  tememetla; .  tememetla . <tetl1-dupl-metlatl
    trunc ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.219)
386.  *temetl*.  temetl, .  temetl . <tetl1-metl ++plant> (b.11
    f.21 c.7 p.217)
387.  *tenextlacotl*.  tenextlacotl, anozo tetlacotl .  tenextlacotl
    or tetlacotl . <++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.220)
388.  *tenohpalli*.  tenopalli: .  tenopalli . <tetl1-nohpalli
    ++plant> (b.11 f.12 c.6 p.124)
389.  *tenohpalli*.  tenopalli texotic, cuitlanextic, tilahuac, .  the
    tenopalli is light blue, ashen, thick. . <tetl1-nohpalli
    ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.218)
390.  *tenxoxoli*.  tenxoxoli, .  tenxoxoli . <++plant> (b.11 f.13
    c.7 p.131)
391.  *teocacahuatl*.  in ihcuac mochihua cuauhtlacacahuatl in ayac
    quitoca: itoca, teocacahuatl, ihuan cuappatlachtli, ihuan in
    tonacayotl: .  when wild cacao grows -- which no one plants --
    called teocacauatl and quappatlachtli, [it eats these] and maize.
    . <teo:tl-cacahuatl ++plant> (b.11 f.1 c.1 p.4)
392.  *teocalzacatl*.  ihuan itoca teocalzacatl: .  also its name is
    teocal‡acatl. . <teo:tl-calli-zacatl ++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7
    p.194)
393.  *teocalzacatl*.  nicnoxacaltia, in zacamamaztli in teocalzacatl.
    .  I make myself a hut of ‡acamamaztli, of teocal‡acatl. . <teo:tl
    calli-zacatl ++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.194)
394.  *teocomitl*.  teocomitl; .  teocomitl . <teo:tl-co:mitl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.218)
395.  *teocomitl*.  inic mitoa teocomitl: in aquin ic mixili ihuitzyo,
    aoc huel quiza intlacamo motequi: ipampa ca zazalic, .  it is
    called teocomitl because if its spine is thrust in someone's foot,
    it can no more come out unless it is cut out, because it is
    sticky. . <teo:tl-co:mitl ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.218)
396.  *teohuauhquilitl*.  huei huauhquilitl, anozo tehuuauhquilitl, .
    uei uauhquilitl or teouauhquilitl . <teo:tl-hua:uhtli-quilitl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.135)
397.  *teohuauhtli*.  ihuan mitoa teohuauhtli, .  also it is called
    the real amaranth. . <teo:tl-hua:uhtli ++plant +ret.w> (b.11
    f.27 c.13 p.287)
398.  *teometl*.  ihuan itoca teometl: .  also its name is teometl. .
    <teo:tl-metl ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.149)
399.  *teometl*.  ihuan mitoa teometl, .  it is also called teometl. .
    <teo:tl-metl ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.217)
400.  *teonanacatl*.  mitoa teonanacatl, .  it is called teonanacatl.
    . <teo:tl-dupl-nacatl ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.130)
401.  *teonanacatl*.  nanacatl, teonanacatl atonahuizpatli. .
    nanacatl [or] teonanacatl is a fever medicine. . <teo:tl-dupl
    nacatl ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.147)
402.  *teonochtli*.  teonochtli: .  teonochtli . <++plant> (b.11
    f.21 c.7 p.219)
403.  *teotlaquili*.  teotlaquili: .  teotlaquilli . <++plant>
    (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.212)
404.  *teotlaquili*.  auh inic mitoa teotlaquili: in ihcuac cuepon
    yoac xochime, .  and hence is it called teotlaquilli: its blossom
    opens in the dark. . <teo:tlac?-- ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7
    p.213)
405.  *teotlaquili*.  auh inin xochitl teotlaquili: ipan yoac, ipan
    oncalac in tonatiuh: in icueponca i; .  and [as to] this flower,
    the teotlaquilli, it is at night, when the sun has set, that its
    opening is. . <teo:tlactli-v11-v01b-delya-l1 +l.for.ll
    ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.213)
406.  *tepeacocoxochitl*.  ihuan itoca tepeacocoxochitl, .  also its
    name is tepeacocoxochitl. . <++plant> (b.11 f.15 c.7 p.160)
407.  *tepeamalacotl*.  tepeamalacotl: .  tepeamalacotl . <tepe:tl
    amalacotl ++plant> (b.11 f.15 c.7 p.156)
408.  *tepecempohualxochitl*.  zan tepiton, iuhquin
    tepecempoalxochitl; .  it is small like the tepecempoalxochitl
    herb. . <tepe:tl-cem-po:hui-caus09-l1-xo:chitl +del.w ++plant>
    (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.145)
409.  *tepetomatl*.  tepetomatl: .  tepetomatl . <tepe:tl-tomatl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.17 c.7 p.173)
410.  *tepexiloxochitlacotl*.  monamiqui in inelhuayo
    tepexiloxochitlacotl. .  the root of the tepexiloxochitlacotl is
    added. . <tepe:tl-xi:lo:tl-xo:chitl-tlaco:tl ++plant> (b.11
    f.16 c.7 p.169)
411.  *tepexonacatl*.  tepexonacatl, .  tepexonacatl . <tepe:tl-xo:tl2
    nacatl ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.139)
412.  *tepicquilitl*.  ocommotoptemilito, ocommopetlacaltemilito in
    imitzmolinca, in incelica: in ayauhtonan, in tzitziquilitl, in
    itzmiquilitl, in tepicquilitl, in ixquich in celic, in
    itzmolinqui, .  they have gone placing in retreat their freshness,
    their tenderness, the ayauhtonan, the tzitziquilitl, the
    itzmiquilitl, the tepicquilitl herbs, all the tender, the fresh
    [ones]. . <--quilitl ++plant> (b.6 f.3 c.8 p.36)
413.  *tepicquilitl*.  quinamaca eloquilitl, mozoquilitl,
    tzitziquilitl, tepicquilitl, mahtzalquilitl, tzayanalquilitl,
    ahuexocaquilitl, chilquilitl, huauhquilitl, huauhquiltzontli,
    xoxocoyoli, xoxocoyolpapatla, xoxocoyolhuihuilan, cuauhxoxocoyoli,
    miccaxoxoyoli, xoxocoyolcuecuepo ayauhtona, tacanalquilitl,
    mexixi, popoyauhquilitl, atzihuequilitl, calahuauhquilitl,
    itzmiquilitl .  she sells eloquilitl, mo‡oquilitl, tzitziquilitl,
    tepicquilitl, matzalquilitl, tzayanalquilitl, auexocaquilitl,
    chilquilitl, amaranth greens, amaranth heads, several varieties of
    sorrel, ayauhtonan, tacanalquilitl, watercress, popoyauhquilitl,
    atziuequilitl, calauauhquilitl, a species of purslane. . <-
    quilitl ++plant> (b.10 f.5 c.25 p.92)
414.  *tepicquilitl*.  tepicquilitl: .  tepicquilitl . <--quilitl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.137)
415.  *tepopotl*.  tlacopopotl, anozo tepopotl .  tlacopopotl or
    tepopotl . <++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.220)
416.  *tequequetzal*.  tequequetzal: .  tequequetzal . <++plant>
    (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.196)
417.  *tequixquizacatl*.  tequixquizacatl: .  tequixqui‡acatl .
    <tequixquitl-zacatl ++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.193)
418.  *tetlacotl*.  tenextlacotl, anozo tetlacotl .  tenextlacotl or
    tetlacotl . <tetl1-tlaco:tl ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.220)
419.  *tetzilacaxochitl*.  tetzilacaxochitl: .  tetzilacaxochitl .
    <tetzi:lli-a:catl-xo:chitl ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.210)
420.  *tetzitzili*.  in quicua: tonalchichicaquilitl, cuanacaquilitl,
    coyocuexi, tetzitzili; .  it eats tonalchichicaquilitl,
    quanacaquilitl, coyocuexi, tetzitzili herbs. . <++plant> (b.11
    f.6 c.2 p.53)
421.  *tetzitzilin*.  tzompachquilitl. tetzitzilin, anozo tetzitzili,
    .  tzompachquilitl. tetzitzilin or tetzitzili . <++plant>
    (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.197)
422.  *tetzitzilin*.  tzompachquilitl. tetzitzilin, anozo tetzitzili,
    .  tzompachquilitl. tetzitzilin or tetzitzili . <+del.n
    ++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.197)
423.  *tetzitzilin*.  nechahhuahuia in tetzitzilin. .  the tetzitzilin
    pricks me. . <++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.197)
424.  *tetzmetl*.  zan achi huel iuhqui in tetzmetl, tepepan mochihua
    zan xiuhtetzmetl: .  it is just about like the tetzmetl which
    grows in the mountains; the shoot of the tetzmetl. . <++plant>
    (b.11 f.16 c.7 p.161)
425.  *tetzmetl*.  tetzmitl, anozo tetzmetl, .  tetzmitl or tetzmetl .
    <++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.219)
426.  *tetzmetl*.  ihuan quicuacuaque in tzompancuahuitl, ihuan
    quicuacuaque in tzaucxochitl, ihuan in tlaquili, ihuan in
    cuetlaxtli ihuan in mazaehuatl, quitletlehuatzaya, quimooxquiaya
    quitototopotzaya, quitotoponiaya inic quicuaya ihuan in tetzmetl,
    ihuan in xantetl quitetexoaya: .  and they gnawed colorin wood,
    and they gnawed the glue orchid and the frilled flower, and tanned
    hides and buckskin, which they roasted, baked, toasted, cooked, so
    that they could eat them; and sedum and mud bricks which they
    gnawed. . <++plant> (b.12 f.7 c.35 p.104)
427.  *tetzmitic*.  tetzmitic .  tetzmitic . <++plant> (b.11 f.16
    c.7 p.161)
428.  *tetzmitl*.  tetzmitl: .  tetzmitl . <++plant> (b.11 f.14
    c.7 p.143)
429.  *tetzmitl*.  tetzmitl, anozo tetzmetl, .  tetzmitl or tetzmetl .
    <++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.219)
430.  *tetzmitl*.  zan ye no ye in tetzmitl: yece zan tepiton, .  it
    is the same as the tetzmitl; however, it is quite small. .
    <++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.219)
431.  *tetzmolin*.  tetzmolin, .  tetzmolin . <++plant> (b.11 f.19
    c.7 p.196)
432.  *texochitl*.  texochitl, .  tesuchitl . <++plant> (b.11 f.14
    c.7 p.145)
433.  *texoxocoyoli*.  texoxocoyoli: .  texoxocoyoli . <++plant>
    (b.11 f.17 c.7 p.173)
434.  *teyiauhtli*.  teyiauhtli: .  teyiauhtli . <++plant> (b.11
    f.19 c.7 p.197)
435.  *tezhuatl*.  tezhuatl: .  tezuatl . <++plant> (b.11 f.23
    c.11 p.242)
436.  *tezompahtli*.  tezompatli, .  te‡ompatli . <tezontli-pahtli
    ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.144)
437.  *tezompahtli*.  ihuan itoca tezompatli, .  also its name is
    te‡onpatli. . <tezontli-pahtli ++plant> (b.11 f.18 c.7 p.182)
438.  *tlacametl*.  yehhuatl in tlacametl, .  this is tlacametl. .
    <tla:catl-metl ++plant> (b.11 f.18 c.7 p.179)
439.  *tlacametl*.  tlacametl, .  tlacametl . <tla:catl-metl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.216)
440.  *tlachinoltetzmitl*.  tlachinoltetzmitl: .  tlachinoltetzmitl .
    <++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.219)
441.  *tlachinoltetzmitl*.  tlapaltetzmitl: zan ye no yehhuatl, in
    tlachinoltetzmitl. .  the tlapaltetzmitl is the same as the
    tlachinoltetzmitl. . <++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.219)
442.  *tlacopopotl*.  ommiz tlacopopotl in inelhuayo iayo, ihuan
    tenexatl chillo, ihuan tlatzoyonilli iztauhiatl: ihuan ommiz
    tlaneloatl, itoca pihpitzahuac: .  one is to drink [an infusion
    of] tlacopopotli root, [or] lime water mixed with chili, [or] the
    water of cooked wormwood; [or] one is to drink [an infusion of]
    the root [of an herb] named pipitzauac. . <tlaco:tl-popo:tl
    ++plant> (b.10 f.9 c.28 p.149)
443.  *tlacopopotl*.  tlacopopotl, anozo tepopotl .  tlacopopotl or
    tepopotl . <tlaco:tl-popo:tl ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.220)
444.  *tlacoxihuitl*.  tlacoxihuitl: .  tlacoxiuitl . <tlaco:tl
    xihuitl1 ++plant> (b.11 f.15 c.7 p.154)
445.  *tlacoxihuitl*.  tlacoxihuitl, .  tlacoxiuitl . <tlaco:tl
    xihuitl1 ++plant> (b.11 f.15 c.7 p.158)
446.  *tlacoxochitl*.  tlacoxochitl: .  tlacoxochitl . <tlaco:tl
    xo:chitl ++plant> (b.11 f.16 c.7 p.167)
447.  *tlacoxochitl*.  tlacoxochitl, .  tlacoxochitl . <tlaco:tl
    xo:chitl ++plant> (b.11 f.17 c.7 p.176)
448.  *tlacoxochitl*.  itoca, tlacoxochitl: .  its name is
    tlacoxochitl. . <tlaco:tl-xo:chitl ++plant> (b.11 f.18 c.7
    p.182)
449.  *tlalamatl*.  tlalamatl, .  tlalamatl . <tla:lli-a:matl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.16 c.7 p.167)
450.  *tlalayohtli*.  tlalayotli, .  tlalayotli . <tla:lli-ayohtli
    ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.141)
451.  *tlalayohtli*.  xocoyoa in itlaaquillo, huel iuhqui in
    tlalayotli, .  it has fruit; its fruit is just like the
    tlalayotli. . <tla:lli-ayohtli ++plant> (b.11 f.18 c.7 p.182)
452.  *tlalcacahuatl*.  tlalcacahuatl, .  tlalcacauatl . <tla:lli
    cacahuatl ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.143)
453.  *tlalcapolin*.  ihuan tlalcapoli: .  also [it is called]
    tlalcapulin. . <tla:lli-capolin ++plant +del.n> (b.11 f.16 c.7
    p.164)
454.  *tlalcapolin*.  tlalcapoli. .  tlalcapoli . <tla:lli-capolin
    ++plant +del.n> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.197)
455.  *tlalchichic*.  tlalchichic, .  tlalchichic . <tla:lli-chichiya
    delya-c1 ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.144)
456.  *tlalchipilin*.  tlalchipili: .  tlalchipili . <tla:lli-chipilin
    +del.n ++plant> (b.11 f.15 c.7 p.158)
457.  *tlalcuitlaxcolli*.  no tzoncohuatl, in iuhqui tlalcuitlaxcolli.
    .  also tzoncoatl worms are like [the medicinal plant]
    tlalcuitlaxcolli. . <tla:lli-cuitlaxcolli ++plant> (b.11 f.10
    c.5 p.99)
458.  *tlalizquixochitl*.  tlalizquixochitl; .  tlalizquixochitl .
    <tla:lli-i:zquitl-xo:chitl ++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.198)
459.  *tlalizquixochitl*.  tlalizquixochitl: .  tlalizquixochitl .
    <tla:lli-i:zquitl-xo:chitl ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.213)
460.  *tlalmizquitl*.  tlalmizquitl, .  tlalmizquitl . <tla:lli
    mizquitl ++plant> (b.11 f.15 c.7 p.157)
461.  *tlalpoyomahtli*.  tlalpoyomatli: .  tlalpoyomatli . <tla:lli
    poyomahtli ++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.192)
462.  *tlalpoyomahtli*.  tlalpoyomatli: .  tlalpoyomatli . <tla:lli
    poyomahtli ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.212)
463.  *tlalquequetzal*.  in mococoa telchiquiuh: tocuitlapa,
    tomicicuil, tochiquiuhio, in nohuiyan tlatlaxhuizti in inacayo: ic
    moza in tlanechicolli, in nepapan xihuitl, tlalquequetzal,
    tonalxihuitl, atzitzicaztli, atzomiatl, .  if the chest, the back,
    the ribs, the rib cage hurt, if she aches in all parts of her
    body, she is anointed with a collection of divers herbs:
    tlalquequetzal, tonalxiuitl, atzitzicaztli, atzomiatl. . <tla:lli
    dupl-quetzalli-trunc ++plant> (b.10 f.9 c.28 p.152)
464.  *tlalquequetzal*.  tlalquequetzal, .  tlalquequetzal . <tla:lli
    dupl-quetzalli-trunc ++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.193)
465.  *tlalquequetzal*.  iuhquin tlalquequetzal, .  it is like the
    tlalquequetzal. . <tla:lli-dupl-quetzalli-trunc ++plant> (b.11
    f.19 c.7 p.196)
466.  *tlaltzauctli*.  tlaltzauctli. .  tlaltzacutli . <tla:lli-tzacui
    l2 ++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.197)
467.  *tlalxilotl*.  tlalxilotl, cualoni .  the tlalxilotl is edible.
    . <tla:lli-xi:lo:tl ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.141)
468.  *tlalyetl*.  tlalietl, .  tlalyetl . <++plant> (b.11 f.16
    c.7 p.162)
469.  *tlalyetl*.  tlalyetl. .  tlalyetl . <++plant> (b.11 f.19
    c.7 p.197)
470.  *tlanexnochtli*.  in itlaaquillo zan no itoca tlanexnochtli, .
    the name of its fruit is also tlanexnochtli. . <++plant> (b.11
    f.12 c.6 p.124)
471.  *tlanexnopalli*.  tlanexnopalli: .  tlanexnopalli .
    <++plant> (b.11 f.12 c.6 p.124)
472.  *tlanexnopalli*.  tlanexnopalli, cuitlanextic, .  the
    tlanexnopalli is ashen. . <++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.218)
473.  *tlapalcamohtli*.  cequi mohuitic, itoca: tlapalcamotli. .  some
    are blue; their name is tlapalcamotli. . <p51-pa:3-l1-camohtli
    ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.140)
474.  *tlapalhuacalxochitl*.  tlapalhuacalxochitl; .
    tlapaluacalxochitl . <p51-pa:3-l1-huacalli-xo:chitl ++plant>
    (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.209)
475.  *tlapalhuauhtli*.  iuhqui in tlapalhuauhtli ixochio in
    iamatlapal yahualtotonti, cuahuitztoton, tentzitziquiltic: .  its
    blossoms and its leaves are like those of the tlapalhuauhtli,
    small and round, pointed at the end, serrated along the edges. .
    <p51-pa:3-l1-hua:uhtli ++plant> (b.11 f.16 c.7 p.163)
476.  *tlapalihhuixochitl*.  tlapalihhuixochitl: zan ye yehhuatl in
    ihhuixochitl, yece chichiltic. .  the tlapaliuixochitl is the same
    as the iuixochitl; however, it is chili-red. . <p51-pa:3-l1
    ihhuitl-xo:chitl ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.211)
477.  *tlapalnochnohpalli*.  tlapalnochnopalli: zan no yehhuatl in
    tzohualnochtli. .  tlapalnochnopalli is the same as tzooalnochtli.
    . <p51-pa:3-l1-no:chtli-nohpalli ++plant> (b.11 f.12 c.6
    p.123)
478.  *tlapalomixochitl*.  omixochitl, ahzo iztac omixochitl, anozo
    tlapalomixochitl; .  omixochitl, or white omixochitl, or colored
    omixochitl . <p51-pa:3-l1-omitl-xo:chitl ++plant> (b.11 f.19
    c.7 p.198)
479.  *tlapalomixochitl*.  tlapalomixochitl: .  tlapalomixochitl .
    <p51-pa:3-l1-omitl-xo:chitl ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.210)
480.  *tlapaltetzmitl*.  tlapaltetzmitl: zan ye no yehhuatl, in
    tlachinoltetzmitl. .  the tlapaltetzmitl is the same as the
    tlachinoltetzmitl. . <++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.219)
481.  *tlaquilli*.  in axcan zan mitoa, tlaquilli. .  today it is just
    called tlaquilli. . <++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.212)
482.  *tlatlacotic*.  tlatlacotic, .  tlatlacotic . <dupl-tlaco:tl-tic
    ++plant> (b.11 f.17 c.7 p.173)
483.  *tlatlalayohtli*.  tlatlalayotli .  tlatlalayotli .
    <++plant> (b.11 f.15 c.7 p.156)
484.  *tlatlancuayeh*.  tlatlancuaye, .  tlatlanquaye . <dupl-tlani?
    cua:itl-eh1 ++plant> (b.11 f.17 c.7 p.174)
485.  *tlatlapanaltic*.  auh in ihcuac ye tetepotzo quiza ima, yicxi,
    coniz tlanoquiloni, itoca tlatlapanaltic inelhuayo, iuhquin
    caxtlatlapan, .  and if one's hands [and] one's feet become
    twisted, one is to drink a purgative, the root [of an herb] named
    tlatlapanaltic, which is like caxtlatlapan. . <p51-tlapa:ni-caus09
    l1-tic ++plant> (b.10 f.9 c.28 p.157)
486.  *tlatlauhcapahtli*.  tlatlauhcapatli, .  tlatlauhcapatli . <dupl
    tla:huitl-v11-prt1-ca:5-pahtli ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.142)
487.  *tlatocnochnohpalli*.  tlatocnochnopalli, .  tlatocnochnopalli .
    <--no:chtli-nohpalli ++plant> (b.11 f.12 c.6 p.123)
488.  *tlatocnochtli*.  zacatlaxcalyayactic: in itech quiquiza, itoca
    tlatocnochtli, .  [the tuna] is dark yellow; thence comes its
    name, tlatocnochtli. . <--no:chtli ++plant> (b.11 f.12 c.6
    p.123)
489.  *tlatocnohpalli*.  tlatocnopalli: .  tlatocnopalli . <--nohpalli
    ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.217)
490.  *tlazolnochnohpalli*.  tlazolnochnopalli: zan no yehhuatl in
    anochtli. .  tla‡olnochnopalli is the same as anochtli. .
    <tlazo:lli-no:chtli-nohpalli ++plant> (b.11 f.12 c.6 p.123)
491.  *tletlemaitl*.  ixyahyapalehualiztli, inezca itic mani
    xochicihuiztli, nanahuatl, ahzo cana tlapalani, anozo quexilihui:
    coniz zan xoxouhqui in itoca tletlemaitl: .  for face wheals, the
    traces of which appear internally from hemorrhoids, pustules, or
    inflammation somewhere, perhaps in the groin, one is to drink raw
    [the sap of the herb] called tletlemaitl. . <dupl-tletl1-ma:itl
    ++plant> (b.10 f.8 c.28 p.142)
492.  *tlilpotonqui*.  ocopiaztli, anozo tlilpotonqui, .  ocopiaztli
    or tlilpotonqui . <++plant> (b.11 f.16 c.7 p.168)
493.  *tlilxochitl*.  no yehhuatl coni in cacahuatl ipan huei
    nacaztli, ipan tlilxochitl, mecaxochitl ipan: .  also one drinks
    chocolate with uey nacaztli, with tlilxochitl, with mecaxochitl. .
    <tli:lli-xo:chitl ++plant> (b.11 f.2 c.1 p.12)
494.  *tlilxochitl*.  xoxoctic in iexoyo: auh in ohuac tliltic; ic
    mitoa. tlilxochitl, .  its bean is green, but it is black when
    dried; wherefore it is called tlilxochitl. . <tli:lli-xo:chitl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.198)
495.  *tlilxochitl*.  tlilxochitl, .  tlilxochitl . <tli:lli-xo:chitl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.210)
496.  *tochnacazhuacalxochitl*.  tochnacazhuacalxochitl, .
    tochnacazuacalxochitl . <to:chin-nacaztli-huacalli-xo:chitl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.209)
497.  *tochquiquiztli*.  in quicua tochquiquiztli iyacacelica ihuan
    tlacalhuazcuahuitl iyacacelica: ihcuac in amo tle quitta itlacual.
    .  it eats tender shoots of tochquiquiztli and tender shoots of
    tlacalhuazquauitl when it finds no other food. . <++plant>
    (b.11 f.1 c.1 p.4)
498.  *tochtetepon*.  tochtetepon: .  tochtetepon . <to:chin--
    ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.130)
499.  *tolcimaquilitl*.  tolcimaquilitl; .  tolcimaquilitl . <to:lin
    cimatl-quilitl ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.140)
500.  *tolcimatl*.  tolcimatl .  tolcimatl . <to:lin-cimatl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.6 p.126)
501.  *tolcimatl*.  in inelhuayo: itoca: tolcimatl, .  the name of its
    root is tolcimatl. . <to:lin-cimatl ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7
    p.140)
502.  *tolcimatl*.  in inelhuayo: za ce iuhquin tolcimatl neuctica
    chichic: .  its root is just like that of the tolcimatl; it is
    bittersweet. . <to:lin-cimatl ++plant> (b.11 f.15 c.7 p.156)
503.  *tolcimatl*.  in inelhuayo iztac in pani ihuan in tlani: iuhqui
    in tolcimatl, .  its root is white on the surface and like the
    tolcimatl inside. . <to:lin-cimatl ++plant> (b.11 f.16 c.7
    p.167)
504.  *tolmimilli*.  tolmimilli, .  tolmimilli . <to:lin-mimilli
    ++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.195)
505.  *tolnacochtli*.  tolnacochtli, .  tolnacochtli . <to:lin
    nacochtli ++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.195)
506.  *toloa*.  toloa: .  toloa . <to:loa: ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7
    p.147)
507.  *tolpatlactic*.  tolpatlactic, xexeltic: .  it is spreading,
    like the tolpatlactli. . <to:lin-patla:hua-l2-tic +w>k
    ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.211)
508.  *tolpatlacticapil*.  in itapalcayo, tzopelic: in iquillo in
    ixiuhyo tolpatlacticapil. .  its shell is sweet; its foliage, its
    leaves, are a little like the tolpatlactli. . <++plant> (b.11
    f.13 c.6 p.126)
509.  *tolpatlactli*.  tolpatlactli. .  tolpatlactli . <to:lin
    patla:hua-l2 +w>k ++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.195)
510.  *tolyaman*.  quinamaca alahuacapetlatl, ezpetlatl,
    petlatlacuilolli, cuicuiliuhqui, zoyapetlatl, tompiyatli,
    zoyatompiatli, tolpetlatl, tolyaman, nacaze, tolcuexzolli,
    tolpapatztli, tolxacualli, tlatzonantli, .  he sells smooth reed
    mats, red reed mats, painted reed mats, varicolored ones; palm
    leaf mats, small deep baskets, small deep baskets of palm leaves;
    reed mats -- reed mats, mats of triangular reeds, mats of thick
    reeds, mats of bruised reeds, mats of frayed reeds, selected mats.
    . <to:lin-yama:ni-trunc ++plant> (b.10 f.5 c.24 p.86)
511.  *tolyaman*.  tolyaman, .  toliaman . <to:lin-yama:ni-trunc
    ++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.195)
512.  *tolyaman*.  nicpetlachihua in tolyama in atoli. .  I make mats
    of toliaman, of atolin. . <to:lin-yama:ni-trunc ++plant
    +del.n> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.195)
513.  *tonacaxochitl*.  tonacaxochitl, .  tonacaxcchitl . <to:n2-v12
    ca:5-xo:chitl ++plant> (b.11 f.17 c.7 p.175)
514.  *tonacaxochitl*.  ca itztic in tonacaxochitl, .  the
    tonacaxochitl is cooling. . <to:n2-v12-ca:5-xo:chitl ++plant>
    (b.11 f.17 c.7 p.175)
515.  *tonacaxochitl*.  huel mixcahuia in tonacaxochitl, quinamiqui in
    cacahuatl in mi: .  the tonacaxochitl can be taken alone; it is
    added to cacao when drunk. . <to:n2-v12-ca:5-xo:chitl ++plant>
    (b.11 f.17 c.7 p.175)
516.  *tonalchichicaquilitl*.  tonalchichicaquilitl, .
    tonalchichicaquilitl . <to:n2-v12-l1-chichiya-delya-ca:5-quilitl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.137)
517.  *tonalxihuitl*.  in mococoa telchiquiuh: tocuitlapa, tomicicuil,
    tochiquiuhio, in nohuiyan tlatlaxhuizti in inacayo: ic moza in
    tlanechicolli, in nepapan xihuitl, tlalquequetzal, tonalxihuitl,
    atzitzicaztli, atzomiatl, .  if the chest, the back, the ribs, the
    rib cage hurt, if she aches in all parts of her body, she is
    anointed with a collection of divers herbs: tlalquequetzal,
    tonalxiuitl, atzitzicaztli, atzomiatl. . <to:n2-v12-l1-xihuitl1
    ++plant> (b.10 f.9 c.28 p.152)
518.  *tonalxihuitl*.  tonalxihuitl: .  tonalxiuitl . <to:n2-v12-l1
    xihuitl1 ++plant> (b.11 f.16 c.7 p.167)
519.  *tonalxihuitl*.  tonalxihuitl .  tonalxiuitl . <to:n2-v12-l1
    xihuitl1 ++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.197)
520.  *tonalxihuitl*.  inic mitoa tonalxihuitl, ihcuac in tonalco,
    xoxohuia, in cueponi. .  it is called tonalxiuitl because it
    becomes green, it blossoms in the summer. . <to:n2-v12-l1-xihuitl1
    ++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.197)
521.  *tonalxochitl*.  tonalxochitl: .  tonalxochitl . <to:n2-v12-l1
    xo:chitl ++plant> (b.11 f.20 c.7 p.198)
522.  *tonalxochitl*.  inic mitoa tonalxochitl, tlalhuacpa in
    mochihua: .  it is called tonalxochitl because it grows in dry
    ground. . <to:n2-v12-l1-xo:chitl ++plant> (b.11 f.20 c.7
    p.198)
523.  *topozan*.  achi iuhqui in topozan, yece zan xoxoctic in
    iquillo: .  it is somewhat like topo‡an; however, its leaves are
    greenish. . <++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.146)
524.  *totoncaxihuitl*.  totoncaxihuitl: .  totoncaxiuitl .
    <++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.150)
525.  *tozancuitlaxcolli*.  tozancuitlaxcolli: .  to‡ancuitlaxcolli .
    <tozan-cuitlaxcolli ++plant> (b.11 f.15 c.7 p.151)
526.  *toztlatzompili*.  zan no yehhuatl in toztlatzompili. .  it is
    the same as the toztlatzompili. . <++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7
    p.210)
527.  *tzaponochnohpalli*.  tzaponochnopalli: .  tzaponochnopalli .
    <tzapotl-no:chtli-nohpalli ++plant> (b.11 f.12 c.6 p.124)
528.  *tzaponochtli*.  in ixochicuallo itoca tzaponochtli, .  the name
    of its fruit is tzaponochtli. . <tzapotl-no:chtli ++plant>
    (b.11 f.12 c.6 p.124)
529.  *tzatzayanalquiltic*.  tzatzayanalquiltic, .  tzatzayanalquiltic
    . <dupl-tzaya:ni-caus09-l1-quilitl ++plant> (b.11 f.16 c.7
    p.162)
530.  *tzauctli*.  tzauctli, .  tzacutli . <tzacui-l2 ++plant>
    (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.197)
531.  *tzauctli*.  in inelhuayo, zazalic: yehhuatl in motocayotia
    tzauctli, .  its root is sticky; this is named tzacutli. . <tzacui
    l2 ++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.197)
532.  *tzauctli*.  iuhquin tzauctli ixiuhyo, .  its foliage is like
    that of the tzacutli. . <tzacui-l2 ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7
    p.211)
533.  *tzaucxochitl*.  tzaucxochitl xihuitl .  tzacuxochitl xiuitl .
    <tzacui-l2-xo:chitl ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.211)
534.  *tzayanalquilitl*.  ihuan in ixquich tlamantli quilitl cualoni,
    xonacatl, tzayanalquilitl, huitzquilitl, huauhquilitl,
    huauhtzontli, itzmiquilitl, quillanenel, iztac xoxocoyoli,
    xoxocoyolhuihuilan, .  and all manner of edible herbs -- onions,
    water plant leaves, thistles, amaranth greens and heads, purslane,
    mixed greens, varieties of sorrel; . <tzaya:ni-caus09-l1-quilitl
    ++plant> (b.8 f.4 c.19 p.68)
535.  *tzayanalquilitl*.  quinamaca eloquilitl, mozoquilitl,
    tzitziquilitl, tepicquilitl, mahtzalquilitl, tzayanalquilitl,
    ahuexocaquilitl, chilquilitl, huauhquilitl, huauhquiltzontli,
    xoxocoyoli, xoxocoyolpapatla, xoxocoyolhuihuilan, cuauhxoxocoyoli,
    miccaxoxoyoli, xoxocoyolcuecuepo ayauhtona, tacanalquilitl,
    mexixi, popoyauhquilitl, atzihuequilitl, calahuauhquilitl,
    itzmiquilitl .  she sells eloquilitl, mo‡oquilitl, tzitziquilitl,
    tepicquilitl, matzalquilitl, tzayanalquilitl, auexocaquilitl,
    chilquilitl, amaranth greens, amaranth heads, several varieties of
    sorrel, ayauhtonan, tacanalquilitl, watercress, popoyauhquilitl,
    atziuequilitl, calauauhquilitl, a species of purslane. . <tzaya:ni
    caus09-l1-quilitl ++plant> (b.10 f.5 c.25 p.92)
536.  *tzayanalquilitl*.  tzayanalquilitl; .  tzayanalquilitl .
    <tzaya:ni-caus09-l1-quilitl ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.136)
537.  *tzayanalquilitl*.  inic mitoa, tzayanalquilitl: tzatzayanqui in
    iyollo. .  it is called tzayanalquilitl for this reason: the
    center of [the stem] is split. . <tzaya:ni-caus09-l1-quilitl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.136)
538.  *tzihuactli*.  tzihuactli .  tziuactli . <tzi:huactli
    ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.218)
539.  *tzihuactli*.  itoca, tzihuactli .  its name is tziuactli. .
    <tzi:huactli ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.218)
540.  *tzihuinquilitl*.  tzihuinquilitl, anozo atzihuenquilitl, .
    tziuinquilitl or atziuenquilitl . <--quilitl ++plant> (b.11
    f.13 c.7 p.135)
541.  *tzilacayohmetl*.  tzilacayometl, mocuicuicuilo,
    moztacatzitzicuitz. .  the tzilacayometl is varicolored, spattered
    with white. . <tzilacatl-ayohtli-metl ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7
    p.217)
542.  *tzilacayohtli*.  tzilacayotli: otra manera de calabazas lisas i
    pintadas. .  tzilacayotli: another kind of smooth, dappled squash
    . <tzilacatl-ayohtli ++plant> (b.11 f.27 c.13 p.288)
543.  *tzilacayohtli*.  in tzilacayotli, iyollo tliltic,
    yahualtotonti: in oc ceppa nepa iyollo, inin ayohuachtli, iztac .
    the center of the tzilacayotli is black, small and round; yet
    again, earlier, its center, this gourd seed, is white. .
    <tzilacatl-ayohtli ++plant> (b.11 f.27 c.13 p.288)
544.  *tzipipahtli*.  tzipipatli, anozo nanacace, .  tzipipatli or
    nanacace . <tzi:pitl-pahtli ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.144)
545.  *tzipipahtli*.  oc no centlamantli tzipipatli, anozo huei patli,
    tlanelhuatl ololtic, .  still another kind, tzipipatli or uei
    patli, [has] a round root. . <tzi:pitl-pahtli ++plant> (b.11
    f.14 c.7 p.144)
546.  *tzitzicazquilitl*.  tzitzicazquilitl, .  tzitzicazquilitl .
    <tzi:tzica:ztli-quilitl ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.135)
547.  *tzitzintlapatl*.  tzitzintlapatl: .  tzintlapatl . <tzitzimitl
    tla:pa:tl ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.130)
548.  *tzitziquilitl*.  quinamaca eloquilitl, mozoquilitl,
    tzitziquilitl, tepicquilitl, mahtzalquilitl, tzayanalquilitl,
    ahuexocaquilitl, chilquilitl, huauhquilitl, huauhquiltzontli,
    xoxocoyoli, xoxocoyolpapatla, xoxocoyolhuihuilan, cuauhxoxocoyoli,
    miccaxoxoyoli, xoxocoyolcuecuepo ayauhtona, tacanalquilitl,
    mexixi, popoyauhquilitl, atzihuequilitl, calahuauhquilitl,
    itzmiquilitl .  she sells eloquilitl, mo‡oquilitl, tzitziquilitl,
    tepicquilitl, matzalquilitl, tzayanalquilitl, auexocaquilitl,
    chilquilitl, amaranth greens, amaranth heads, several varieties of
    sorrel, ayauhtonan, tacanalquilitl, watercress, popoyauhquilitl,
    atziuequilitl, calauauhquilitl, a species of purslane. . <-
    quilitl ++plant> (b.10 f.5 c.25 p.92)
549.  *tzitziquilitl*.  tzitziquilitl, .  tzitziquilitl . <--quilitl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.136)
550.  *tzohualnochnohpalli*.  tzohualnochnopalli: .  tzooalnochnopalli
    . <tzoa-l1-no:chtli-nohpalli +insert.w ++plant> (b.11 f.12 c.6
    p.123)
551.  *tzohualnochtli*.  in itech quiza, in itlaaquillo itoca,
    tzohualnochtli, .  from it comes its fruit named tzooalnochtli. .
    <tzoa-l1-no:chtli +insert.w ++plant> (b.11 f.12 c.6 p.123)
552.  *tzohualnochtli*.  tlapalnochnopalli: zan no yehhuatl in
    tzohualnochtli. .  tlapalnochnopalli is the same as tzooalnochtli.
    . <tzoa-l1-no:chtli +insert.w ++plant> (b.11 f.12 c.6 p.123)
553.  *tzompachquilitl*.  tzompachquilitl. tetzitzilin, anozo
    tetzitzili, .  tzompachquilitl. tetzitzilin or tetzitzili . <-
    quilitl ++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.197)
554.  *tzompoton*.  tzompoton, .  tzompoton . <++plant> (b.11 f.18
    c.7 p.184)
555.  *tzontecomananacatl*.  tzontecomananacatl, .  tzontecomananacatl
    . <tzontli-tecomatl-dupl-nacatl ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7
    p.132)
556.  *xalacocohtli*.  miecpa in ommotlaliz, mixnamiquiz, in inelhuayo
    xalacocotli: tomahuac, iuhquin cuauhnelhuatl, achi cococ: .  many
    times, when it is to be placed on, one is to add the root of the
    xalacocotli, [which is] thick like a tree root; it is somewhat
    burning. . <xa:lli-a:tl1-co:cohtli ++plant> (b.11 f.16 c.7
    p.168)
557.  *xalacocohtli*.  auh inin xalacocotli iquiyoyo, ihticoyonqui,
    iuhqui in caxtillan acatl: .  and the stems of this xalacocotli
    are hollow within like the reeds of castile. . <xa:lli-a:tl1
    co:cohtli ++plant> (b.11 f.16 c.7 p.168)
558.  *xalacocohtli*.  xalacocotli: .  xalacocotli . <xa:lli-a:tl1
    co:cohtli ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.212)
559.  *xaltomaquilitl*.  xaltomaquilitl. .  xaltomaquilitl . <xa:lli
    tomatl-quilitl ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.136)
560.  *xaltomatl*.  in itlacual, i, coyotl: nacatl, nacaxoxouhqui:
    cintli, elotl, ohuatl, xaltomatl, nochtli, capolin, tamalli,
    tlaxcalli, neuctli. .  the foods of this coyote are meat, raw
    meat, ripe maize ears, green maize ears, green maize stalks,
    tomatoes, tunas, american cherries, tamales, tortillas, honey. .
    <xa:lli-tomatl ++plant> (b.11 f.1 c.1 p.7)
561.  *xaltomatl*.  xaltomatl .  xaltomatl . <xa:lli-tomatl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.6 p.127)
562.  *xaltomatl*.  xaltomatl, xaltotomatl .  xaltomatl [or]
    xaltotomatl . <xa:lli-tomatl ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.140)
563.  *xaltomatl*.  xaltomatl .  xaltomatl . <xa:lli-tomatl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.15 c.7 p.153)
564.  *xaltomatl*.  in xaltomatl, .  the xaltomatl . <xa:lli-tomatl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.16 c.7 p.166)
565.  *xaltomatl*.  mocenteci in inelhuayo mamaxtla, ihuan inelhuayo
    xaltomatl .  the root of mamaxtla and the root of xaltomatl are
    ground up together. . <xa:lli-tomatl ++plant> (b.11 f.16 c.7
    p.166)
566.  *xaltomatl*.  mocenteci, zan aquitzin in ixiuhyo
    quetzalmizquitl: xiuhiyac, ihuan inelhuayo xaltomatl, ihuan
    inelhuayo coztomatl. .  ground together are a very little of the
    tips of quetzalmizquitl foliage and the root of the tomato and the
    root of the yellow tomato. . <xa:lli-tomatl ++plant> (b.11
    f.17 c.7 p.176)
567.  *xaltomatl*.  in xaltomatl, in coztomatl; ye omito in quenami in
    quetzalmizquitl. .  the characteristics of the tomato, of the
    yellow tomato, of the quetzalmizquitl have already been told. .
    <xa:lli-tomatl ++plant> (b.11 f.17 c.7 p.177)
568.  *xaltomaxihuitl*.  icapollo: in xaltomaxihuitl, .  it is the
    fruit of the xaltomatl herb. . <xa:lli-tomatl-xihuitl1
    ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.140)
569.  *xaltotomatl*.  xaltomatl, xaltotomatl .  xaltomatl [or]
    xaltotomatl . <xa:lli-dupl-tomatl ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7
    p.140)
570.  *xelhuaznanacatl*.  xelhuaznanacatl, .  xehuaznanacatl . <xelli
    hua:ztli-dupl-nacatl ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.132)
571.  *xicamoxihuitl*.  xicamoxihuitl: .  xicamoxiuitl . <++plant>
    (b.11 f.13 c.6 p.125)
572.  *xilometl*.  xilometl, mapitzahuac. .  the xilometl has slender
    leaves. . <++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.217)
573.  *xiloxochitl*.  in itoca xiloxochitl, zan quezqui in iuhqui
    xilotzontli inic moyahuatica: .  a few, [like] those named
    xiloxochitl, are spread in the manner of corn silk. . <xi:lo:tl
    xo:chitl ++plant> (b.11 f.16 c.7 p.169)
574.  *xiloxochitlacotl*.  auh inin xiloxochitlacotl tepitztic,
    tlacuahuac, .  and this xiloxochitlacotl is hard, firm. .
    <xi:lo:tl-xo:chitl-tlaco:tl ++plant> (b.11 f.16 c.7 p.169)
575.  *xitomatl*.  yollopiciltic iuhquin xitomatl. .  the centers are
    tiny like tomato [seeds]. . <++plant> (b.11 f.12 c.6 p.124)
576.  *xiuhtetzmetl*.  zan achi huel iuhqui in tetzmetl, tepepan
    mochihua zan xiuhtetzmetl: .  it is just about like the tetzmetl
    which grows in the mountains; the shoot of the tetzmetl. .
    <++plant> (b.11 f.16 c.7 p.161)
577.  *xiuhteuczacatl*.  xiuhteuczacatl: .  xiuhtecu‡acatl . <xihuitl1
    te:uctli-zacatl ++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.194)
578.  *xiuhteuczacatl*.  tlatlactic: inic mitoa xiuhteuczacatl. .  it
    is ruddy; hence is it called xiuhtecu‡acatl. . <xihuitl1-te:uctli
    zacatl ++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.194)
579.  *xochicamohtli*.  cequi coztic, itoca xochicamotli: .  some are
    yellow; their name is xochicamotli. . <xo:chitl-camohtli
    ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.140)
580.  *xoconochnohpalli*.  xoconochnopalli, .  xoconochnopalli .
    <xocotl-no:chtli-nohpalli ++plant> (b.11 f.12 c.6 p.124)
581.  *xoconochnohpalli*.  xoconochnopalli, .  xoconochnopalli .
    <xocotl-no:chtli-nohpalli ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.218)
582.  *xoconochtli*.  in itlaaquillo, itoca xoconochtli, .  the name
    of its fruit is xoconochtli. . <xocotl-no:chtli ++plant> (b.11
    f.12 c.6 p.124)
583.  *xocoyoli*.  xocoyoli, zan no yehhuatl in xoxocoyoli. .
    xocoyoli is the same as xoxocoyoli. . <++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7
    p.138)
584.  *xonacatl*.  quil itlatla in xonacatl, .  they say it is some
    kind of onion. . <xo:tl2-nacatl ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7
    p.139)
585.  *xonacatontli*.  iuhquin xonacatontli. .  it is like a little
    onion. . <xo:tl2-nacatl-to:n-tl ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7
    p.147)
586.  *xonecuilpahtli*.  xonecuilpatli, .  xonecuilpatli . <--necuilli
    pahtli ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.146)
587.  *xoxocoyolcuecuepo*.  quinamaca eloquilitl, mozoquilitl,
    tzitziquilitl, tepicquilitl, mahtzalquilitl, tzayanalquilitl,
    ahuexocaquilitl, chilquilitl, huauhquilitl, huauhquiltzontli,
    xoxocoyoli, xoxocoyolpapatla, xoxocoyolhuihuilan, cuauhxoxocoyoli,
    miccaxoxoyoli, xoxocoyolcuecuepo ayauhtona, tacanalquilitl,
    mexixi, popoyauhquilitl, atzihuequilitl, calahuauhquilitl,
    itzmiquilitl .  she sells eloquilitl, mo‡oquilitl, tzitziquilitl,
    tepicquilitl, matzalquilitl, tzayanalquilitl, auexocaquilitl,
    chilquilitl, amaranth greens, amaranth heads, several varieties of
    sorrel, ayauhtonan, tacanalquilitl, watercress, popoyauhquilitl,
    atziuequilitl, calauauhquilitl, a species of purslane. .
    <++plant> (b.10 f.5 c.25 p.92)
588.  *xoxocoyolcuecuepoc*.  xoxocoyolcuecuepoc, .  xoxocoyolcuecuepoc
    . <++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.138)
589.  *xoxocoyolcuecuepoc*.  xochio cueponqui. inic mitoa
    xoxocoyolcuecuepoc: .  it has blossoms, it is a blossomer, so it
    is called xoxocoyolcuecuepoc. . <++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7
    p.138)
590.  *xoxocoyolhuihuilan*.  quinamaca eloquilitl, mozoquilitl,
    tzitziquilitl, tepicquilitl, mahtzalquilitl, tzayanalquilitl,
    ahuexocaquilitl, chilquilitl, huauhquilitl, huauhquiltzontli,
    xoxocoyoli, xoxocoyolpapatla, xoxocoyolhuihuilan, cuauhxoxocoyoli,
    miccaxoxoyoli, xoxocoyolcuecuepo ayauhtona, tacanalquilitl,
    mexixi, popoyauhquilitl, atzihuequilitl, calahuauhquilitl,
    itzmiquilitl .  she sells eloquilitl, mo‡oquilitl, tzitziquilitl,
    tepicquilitl, matzalquilitl, tzayanalquilitl, auexocaquilitl,
    chilquilitl, amaranth greens, amaranth heads, several varieties of
    sorrel, ayauhtonan, tacanalquilitl, watercress, popoyauhquilitl,
    atziuequilitl, calauauhquilitl, a species of purslane. .
    <++plant> (b.10 f.5 c.25 p.92)
591.  *xoxocoyolhuihuila*.  xoxocoyolhuihuila, .  xoxocoyohuiuila . <-
    dupl-huila:na-l2 ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.138)
592.  *xoxocoyoli*.  quinamaca eloquilitl, mozoquilitl, tzitziquilitl,
    tepicquilitl, mahtzalquilitl, tzayanalquilitl, ahuexocaquilitl,
    chilquilitl, huauhquilitl, huauhquiltzontli, xoxocoyoli,
    xoxocoyolpapatla, xoxocoyolhuihuilan, cuauhxoxocoyoli,
    miccaxoxoyoli, xoxocoyolcuecuepo ayauhtona, tacanalquilitl,
    mexixi, popoyauhquilitl, atzihuequilitl, calahuauhquilitl,
    itzmiquilitl .  she sells eloquilitl, mo‡oquilitl, tzitziquilitl,
    tepicquilitl, matzalquilitl, tzayanalquilitl, auexocaquilitl,
    chilquilitl, amaranth greens, amaranth heads, several varieties of
    sorrel, ayauhtonan, tacanalquilitl, watercress, popoyauhquilitl,
    atziuequilitl, calauauhquilitl, a species of purslane. .
    <++plant> (b.10 f.5 c.25 p.92)
593.  *xoxocoyoli*.  xoxocoyoli, .  xoxocoyoli . <++plant> (b.11
    f.13 c.7 p.138)
594.  *xoxocoyoli*.  xocoyoli, zan no yehhuatl in xoxocoyoli. .
    xocoyoli is the same as xoxocoyoli. . <++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7
    p.138)
595.  *xoxocoyolpapatla*.  quinamaca eloquilitl, mozoquilitl,
    tzitziquilitl, tepicquilitl, mahtzalquilitl, tzayanalquilitl,
    ahuexocaquilitl, chilquilitl, huauhquilitl, huauhquiltzontli,
    xoxocoyoli, xoxocoyolpapatla, xoxocoyolhuihuilan, cuauhxoxocoyoli,
    miccaxoxoyoli, xoxocoyolcuecuepo ayauhtona, tacanalquilitl,
    mexixi, popoyauhquilitl, atzihuequilitl, calahuauhquilitl,
    itzmiquilitl .  she sells eloquilitl, mo‡oquilitl, tzitziquilitl,
    tepicquilitl, matzalquilitl, tzayanalquilitl, auexocaquilitl,
    chilquilitl, amaranth greens, amaranth heads, several varieties of
    sorrel, ayauhtonan, tacanalquilitl, watercress, popoyauhquilitl,
    atziuequilitl, calauauhquilitl, a species of purslane. .
    <++plant> (b.10 f.5 c.25 p.92)
596.  *xoxocoyolpapatla*.  xoxocoyolpapatla, .  xoxocoyolpapatla .
    <++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.138)
597.  *xoxocoyolpapatla*.  papatlahuac. inic mitoa xoxocoyolpapatla: .
    [they are] broad; for this reason is it called xoxocoyolpapatla. .
    <++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.138)
598.  *xoxocoyolpatlac*.  iuhquin xoxocoyolpatlac, yece
    tetepontomahuac. totomio, .  it is like the xoxocoyolpatlac;
    however, the stalk is stubby, thick, hairy. . <++plant> (b.11
    f.14 c.7 p.138)
599.  *xoxocoyoltic*.  no ihuan ixpatli in xoxocoyoltic, .  xoxocoltic
    is also an eye medicine. . <++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.145)
600.  *xoxocoyoltic*.  xoxocoyoltic .  xoxocoyoltic . <.aho
    ++plant> (b.11 f.15 c.7 p.154)
601.  *xoxocoyoltic*.  in tlanelhuatl moneloz olli, ihuan
    xoxocoyoltic: ic quipachilhuizque in inacayo; in omito icihuayo, .
    the root is to be mixed with rubber and the herb xoxocoyoltic,
    which they are to press in her body, as has been said -- in her
    vagina. . <++plant> (b.11 f.18 c.7 p.186)
602.  *xoxocoyoltic*.  in xoxocoyoltic: ye omito in quenami. .  the
    nature of xoxocoyoltic has already been mentioned. . <++plant>
    (b.11 f.18 c.7 p.186)
603.  *xoxotla*.  xoxotla .  xoxotla . <dupl-xo:tla1 ++plant>
    (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.197)
604.  *xoxotla*.  inic mitoa xoxotla, chichiltic, in ixochio
    huelletic. .  it is called xoxotla because its blossom is chili
    red, just like a flame. . <dupl-xo:tla1 ++plant> (b.11 f.19
    c.7 p.197)
605.  *xoxotlatzin*.  xoxotlatzin, .  xoxotlatzin . <++plant>
    (b.11 f.16 c.7 p.167)
606.  *xoxouhcapahtli*.  xoxouhcapatli: .  xoxouhcapatli . <dupl
    xo:tl2-v11-prt1-ca:5-pahtli ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.146)
607.  *xoxouhcapahtli*.  ihuan xoxouhcapatli: .  also [it is called]
    xoxouhcapatli. . <dupl-xo:tl2-v11-prt1-ca:5-pahtli ++plant>
    (b.11 f.17 c.7 p.171)
608.  *yacatzotl*.  yacatzotl: chichiltic. .  yacatzotl. it is chili
    red. . <yacatl-tzotl ++plant> (b.11 f.27 c.13 p.287)
609.  *yapaxihuitl*.  ic mopotonia in tlanechicolli, in ocotl cenca
    tzomonqui, ihuan chichic cuahuitl, ihuan iztauhiatl, ihuan
    calcuechtli, ihuan yapaxihuitl inelhuayo, ihuan achi iztatl,
    capolxihuitl, ihuan itzcuimpatli: .  a poultice of assorted
    [powdered herbs] is applied: very hot pine [resin] and chichic
    quauitl and wormwood, and soot, and yapaxiuitl root, and a little
    salt, cherry leaves, and itzcuinpatli. . <++plant> (b.10 f.9
    c.28 p.149)
610.  *yauhtli*.  zan no iuhqui in yauhtli, .  it is the same as
    yauhtli. . <++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.146)
611.  *yecayohtli*.  ayotli: anozo yecayotli calabazas destas tierras
    que se comen .  gourd or yecayotli native edible squashes .
    <++plant> (b.11 f.27 c.13 p.288)
612.  *yecayohtli*.  in yecayotli iyollo, itoca ayohuachtli, .  the
    name of the center of the yecayotli is gourd seed. . <--ayohtli
    ++plant> (b.11 f.27 c.13 p.288)
613.  *yohualxochitl*.  yoalxochitl: .  yoalxochitl . <yohua-l1
    xo:chitl ++plant +del.w> (b.11 f.17 c.7 p.177)
614.  *yopixochitl*.  yopixochitl, .  yopixochitl . <++plant>
    (b.11 f.20 c.7 p.209)
615.  *zacacili*.  zacacili: .  ‡acacili . <++plant> (b.11 f.15
    c.7 p.151)
616.  *zacamamaztli*.  zacamamaztli, .  ‡acamamaztli . <zacatl--
    ++plant +prob> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.194)
617.  *zacamamaztli*.  nicnoxacaltia, in zacamamaztli in teocalzacatl.
    .  I make myself a hut of ‡acamamaztli, of teocal‡acatl. . <zacatl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.194)
618.  *zacamolli*.  auh ihcuac hualquiza temazcalco ic maltia in
    tlanechicolli, in xihuitl iyauhtli, cococxihuitl, zacamolli
    inelhuayo, tecpatli inelhuayo, ihuan ixiuhyo, .  when one emerges
    from the sweat bath, one washes in an assortment of herbs:
    iiyauhtli, cococxiuitl, roots of ‡acamolli, roots and leaves of
    tecpat1i. . <zacatl-moa:-l1 ++plant> (b.10 f.9 c.28 p.158)
619.  *zacananacatl*.  zacananacatl, .  ‡acananacatl . <zacatl-dupl
    nacatl ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.132)
620.  *zacanochnohpalli*.  zacanochnopalli, matilactic, chicahuac. .
    the ‡acanochnopalli is thick-leafed, sturdy. . <zacatl-no:chtli
    nohpalli ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.218)
621.  *zacanochtli*.  in itech mochihua itoca zacanochtli, .  the name
    of what grows on it is ‡acanochtli. . <zacatl-no:chtli
    ++plant> (b.11 f.12 c.6 p.124)
622.  *zacanohualli*.  zacanohualli, .  ‡acanoualli . <zacatl--
    ++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.193)
623.  *zacateteztli*.  zacateteztli: .  ‡acateteztli . <zacatl
    teteztli ++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.194)
624.  *zacateztli*.  zacateztli .  ‡acateztli . <++plant> (b.11
    f.13 c.6 p.126)
625.  *zacateztli*.  zacateztli .  ‡acateztli . <++plant> (b.11
    f.14 c.7 p.140)
626.  *zacatl*.  zacatl; .  ‡acatl . <zacatl ++plant> (b.11 f.19
    c.7 p.196)
627.  *zacayaman*.  can no yehhuatl in zacayaman; yece chamahuac,
    chicahuac: .  it is the same as ‡acayaman; however, it is rough,
    strong. . <zacatl-yama:ni-trunc ++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7
    p.193)
628.  *zozoyatic*.  zozoyatic .  ‡o‡oyatic . <dupl-zo:ya:tl-tic
    ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.147)




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From jdanahuatl at gmail.com  Sat Nov  5 03:43:31 2011
From: jdanahuatl at gmail.com (Jonathan Amith)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 23:43:31 -0400
Subject: Tunas and purslane
In-Reply-To: <002001cc9b29$aa52a890$fef7f9b0$@net.mx>
Message-ID: <FRI.4.NOV.2011.234331.0400.JDANAHUATL@GMAIL.COM>

Hi David,

There is a commentary to the works of Hernández, vol. 7 in the UNAM series
(this vol. published 1984). A fantastic commentary is that of Alejandro de
Avila on The Badianus, published as The Paper Museum of Cassiano dal Pozzo
Flora, Flora: The Aztec Herbal (Martin Clayton, Luigi Guerrini and
Alejandro de Ávila). I think it is $175 but I waited until Barnes and Noble
had a 50% discount for members on a book of their choice!.

There seems to be a conflation of nomenclature referring to species of the
Aizoaceae and Crassulaceae families on the one hand, and the verdolaga
(Portulaca oleracea L.) on the other. One evidence is what I mentioned of
the tetsmitl look-alike being Trianthema portulacastrum L. (Aizoaceae). It
is an interesting coincidence that in Latin the species name is
portulacastrum (I am not sure what the latin suffix means here)

In the Balsas valley there is also a:itsmitl, Ludwigia peploides (Kunth)
Raven (Onagraeae), which suggests a division te+ itsmitl vs. a:+ itsmitl.
Both are very low lying plants. A further example is tli:ltik a:itsmitl
Bourreria spathulata (Miers.) Hemsl. (Boraginaceae).

Many have identified tetsmitl as a Sedum spp. (Crassulaceae) another of
those fleshy-leaved plants (cf Alejandro de Avila, p. 86). In the Sierra
Norte de Puebla Kalanchoe pinnata (Lam.) (Crassulaceae) is called
sese:kpahtli. It is not unusual for fleshy-leafed plants to be called
something along these lines given that the leaves can be cut open parallel
to their surfaces and are cool inside, often used as compressed.

Where did you get the information on vowel length in Acatlan?

There is documentation of teo:no:chtli as a Pachycereus sp as various
authors have given this for Hernandez and Badianus. In Ameyaltepec I have
teono:xtli and in Oapan tekono:xtli. I checked as much as I could until I
finally resigned myself to a short /o/ in Ameyaltepec. The local cognate
for classical teo:- is tio:-, not teo-, so perhaps this is a frozen form
with irregular length. The /k/ is unusual in Oapan, but clearly the same
etymology. Oapan has komitetl for 'bone' and in several other cases seem to
insert /k/ for no clear reason or established pattern. Most often it is
deleted (telesa for teliksa, ixitl for ikxitl, etc.). I do not think
tekono:xtli is related to teko:n+no:chtli. But I would think that
teo:no:chtli and teno:chtli are different.







On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 3:40 PM, David Wright <dcwright at prodigy.net.mx>wrote:

> Jonathan:****
>
> ** **
>
> Molina has “Tetzmitl. cierta yerua”. Since there doesn’t seem to be a noun
> “tetztli”, I first thought of te + i:tz + mi:tl, but this combination
> should take the form tei:tzmi:tl, considering the length of the first two
> vowels and the usual patterns of elision (at least in 16th century central
> Mexican Nahuatl), so I guess the first syllable must be the indefinite
> human possessive prefix te:-, thus te:tzmi:tl, “someone’s obsidian arrow”
> or “people’s obsidian arrow”, although I still miss the i: of i:tz(tli).
> The fact that in Acatlán, Guerrero i:tzmi:tl is “verdolaga” is what most
> tempts me to restore the i:.****
>
> ** **
>
> Your tekono:xtli looks like the hypothetical classical Nahuatl word
> teco:nno:chtli, (teco:ma - a)+ no:chtli (m + n > nn), “prickly pear of the
> globular pot” or “globular prickly pear”. Both morphophonological changes
> would be regular in early colonial central Nahuatl.****
>
> ** **
>
> Teono:xtli as Pachycereus grandis coincides with the illustration of the
> “Teonochtli” in the Codex Cruz-Badiano (f. 17v), depicting a single-column
> organ pipe cactus. I suppose that would be teo:no:chtli (teo: + no:chtli)
> in classical Nahuatl.****
>
> ** **
>
> So far the strongest evidence I have that the word teno:chtli was used to
> name a species of plant (other than the toponymical and mythical aspects
> mentioned by Roberto) is the brief description given by Francisco Hernández
> in the 16th century:****
>
>
> http://www.ibiologia.unam.mx/plantasnuevaespana/pdf/historia_de_las_plantas_III_6_4.pdf#page=10Other than this, the botanical use of the word seems quite scarce
> throughout time and space.****
>
> ** **
>
> (By the way, the Instituto de Biología of the UNAM put up a very
> functional electronic version of Hernández’s botanical treatise last year.
> That’s where the preceding URL is from; the home page is here:
> http://www.ibiologia.unam.mx/plantasnuevaespana/ I’ve needed a resource
> like this for years.)****
>
> ** **
>
> Thanks again for your help. I’ll copy this to the list to see if anyone
> has any more useful comments.****
>
> ** **
>
> *******************************************************
>
> De:   Jonathan Amith [jdanahuatl at gmail.com]****
>
> Enviado el: viernes, 04 de noviembre de 2011 07:36****
>
> Para: roberto romero****
>
> CC:   David Wright; Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org****
>
> Asunto:     Re: [Nahuat-l] Tunas and purslane****
>
> ** **
>
> Hi David,****
>
> ****
>
> In the Balsas valley of Guerrero tetsmitl is Portulaca oleracea L.
> (verdolaga). There is a tetsmitl "look alike" í:tlatlá:k in Oapan, that is
> an Aizoaceae, Trianthema portulacastrum L.****
>
> ****
>
> For the Opuntia I have tekono:xtli in Oapan, and teono:xtli (sic) for the
> inside rods of a certain cactus, apparently Pachycereus grandis Rose, but
> maybe also some Opuntias. .****
>
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From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx  Sat Nov  5 03:26:27 2011
From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 21:26:27 -0600
Subject: Plant Names
In-Reply-To: <20111104222913.joyxjcww9w0cwwwg@webmail.iu.edu>
Message-ID: <FRI.4.NOV.2011.212627.0600.DCWRIGHT@PRODIGY.NET.MX>

Thanks a million, Joe. Your file helped me track down some loose ends and
make some more note cards, hopping back and forth between the Florentine
Codex, Hernández, and the Codex Cruz-Badiano.

Any thoughts on the etymology of tetzmitl? I feel like I'm forcing things
seeing te:- + i:tzmi:tl in it, since Molina has several words that start
with teitz-. The i: shouldn't be elided with either te(tl) or te:-.

-----Mensaje original-----
De: Campbell, R. Joe [mailto:campbel at indiana.edu] 
Enviado el: viernes, 04 de noviembre de 2011 20:29
Para: David Wright
CC: Nahuat-l
Asunto: Plant Names

David,

   I thought that some of my notes on plant names in the Florentine 
Codex might be of interest to you and some listero por ahi.  The notes 
are still incomplete, actually skeletal in many cases, but they might 
help by constituting a word list with page locations in the FC.  Their 
intention is to eventually give both location in the FC, as well as a 
sentence context.
But this doesn't work where Dibble and Anderson used a plant name as a 
paragraph header (e.g., item 1 below).  On the other hand, where there 
IS a sentence context, as in item 3, we get the Nahuatl context, as 
well as the English translation of the sentence.

   I am sorry for the incompleteness, but I don't know when the "in-" 
will be remedied.  I'm putting most of my current work into words that 
are more rewarding to me at my present state of ignorance of plant 
vocabulary.  That frequently involves words with a good deal of 
derivational layers.

   In the list below,
  b = book
  f = file
  c = chapter
  p = page
     (the file number is only my use in locating items for editing)
Book, chapter, and page refer to the Dibble and Anderson edition.

I'll be happy to clarify anything that is too murky.

Joe

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From jdanahuatl at gmail.com  Sat Nov  5 17:54:00 2011
From: jdanahuatl at gmail.com (Jonathan Amith)
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2011 13:54:00 -0400
Subject: Tunas and purslane
In-Reply-To: <000601cc9bdc$f41a0c80$dc4e2580$@net.mx>
Message-ID: <SAT.5.NOV.2011.135400.0400.JDANAHUATL@GMAIL.COM>

Hi David,

Yes, Matias Alonso does not mark vowel length, hence my question. It is
actually interestingly organized as a word menu (by semantic field)
although the final aspirations are randomly marked or not marked. I am not
sure that the root in itsmitl (tetsmitl-a:itsmitl) is in any way related to
i:tstli even though Hernandez does relate the semantics of the plant and
blade.

In the Balsa area to:mohtli is the term for the prickly pear fruit and
discussions about whether a given plant is a to:motli is based on whether
it produces this fruit. No:chtli is used only for no:chmahtlapahli, a very
small, low-to-the ground Opuntia that I have not yet had identified (it was
just collected this summer; its fruit is used to color masa when totopoxtli
(sweet, ruffled tortillas) are made for Corpus Christi. I havenºt found
to:mohtli in any other sources to date.

By the way, I have put up a few notes on
http://www.balsas-nahuatl.org/ethnobiology . They are quite random for now.
The chapolin one discusses a general approach.

Jonathan





On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 1:04 PM, David Wright <dcwright at prodigy.net.mx>wrote:

> Estimado Jonathan:****
>
> ** **
>
> Thanks. This is all very useful.****
>
> ** **
>
> Just last week I was talking Nahuatl etymology and botany over coffee with
> Alejandro de Ávila in Puebla, at the annual Otopames conference. In fact,
> his suggestion that you would have useful information on this topic was my
> initial motivation to post my questions regarding tunas and purslane to
> this list. He sent me a link to the order form for the Paper Museum volume
> and it’s on my desk as I write. The publishers are selling it for $196 USD,
> so I’m still thinking about it, but now that I’ve acquired a deeper
> awareness of the importance of biology in iconographical and toponymical
> studies, and having read your comments on the studies included in this
> volume, I probably won’t be able to hold out much longer.****
>
> ** **
>
> I noticed that Francisco Hernández also has “tetzmitl” (buried in his
> description of tzonpachtli, book 1, chapter 161) and “aytzmitl” (twice:
> book 3, chapters 67 and 211). Your suggestion that this may be a semantic
> contrast is duly noted, and tips the scale in my head in favor of te(tl)
> rather than te:-. The fact that Molina also registers “tetzmitl” and that
> the loss of the i: of i:tz(tli) doesn’t fit the usual pattern still sets
> off a flashing red light, but there have been other times when Nahuatl
> doesn’t seem to fit into our grammatical and morphophonological
> expectations.****
>
> ** **
>
> I’m sorry about having slipped colons into the Acatlán word “itzmitl”. My
> head was in automatic long-vowel restoration mode, and I was assuming that
> the roots were i:tz(tli) + mi:tl. My only source is the *Vocabulario
> náhuatl-español de Acatlán, Guerrero* by Marcos Matías Alonso and
> Constantino Medina Lima (2nd. ed., CIESAS/Plaza y Valdés, 1996), and vowel
> contrast is not marked. I just checked my main long-vowel-marking
> dictionaries. Karttunen gives i:tztli, Bierhorst itztli, and Wolf both
> i:tztli and itztli, so the i in this noun doesn’t appear to be long across
> the board. It’s always long in mi:tl, though.****
>
> ** **
>
> So tekono:xtli is just teono:xtli with an extra /k/. I never would have
> guessed that.****
>
> ** **
>
> I think you’re right about the botanical difference between teo:no:chtli
> and teno:chtli. The 16th century sources make it clear that the former is
> an organ pipe cactus (Pachycereus sp.) and the latter is a prickly pear
> (Opuntia sp.) (see the Florentine Codex [book 11, chapter 7, paragraph 12],
> Francisco Hernández’s botanical treatise [book 6, chapters 108, 110], the
> Codex Cruz-Badiano [f. 17v], and the toponymical signs in the pictorial
> sources, e.g. Codex Mendoza: “Tenochtitlan” [ff. 2r, 4v, 19r] vs.
> “Teonochtitlan” [f. 42r]). Several authors have confused the two (e.g.
> Laura White Olascoaga and Carmen Zepeda Gómez, *El paraíso botánico del
> convento de Malinalco, estado de México* [Toluca, UAEM, 2005], where the
> organ pipe cactus is unfortunately depicted and described under the heading
> “Tenochtli”). In Nahua plant taxonomy the “generic” part of the word,
> no:chtli, refers to cactus fruit, in contrast to modern botanical taxonomy,
> where the morphology of the plant as a whole determines the genus. This
> important distinction has confused a lot of people.****
>
> ** **
>
> Thanks again for your invaluable input, which will be cited in my paper
> (now over six weeks past deadline, thanks to my new interest in botany),
> using the Nahuat-l Archives site as a reference.****
>
> ** **
>
> Saludos desde Guanajuato,****
>
> ** **
>
> David****
>
> ** **
>
> *De:* Jonathan Amith [mailto:jdanahuatl at gmail.com]
> *Enviado el:* viernes, 04 de noviembre de 2011 21:44
> *Para:* David Wright
> *CC:* Nahuat-l
>
> *Asunto:* Re: [Nahuat-l] Tunas and purslane****
>
> ** **
>
> Hi David,****
>
>  ****
>
> There is a commentary to the works of Hernández, vol. 7 in the UNAM series
> (this vol. published 1984). A fantastic commentary is that of Alejandro de
> Avila on The Badianus, published as The Paper Museum of Cassiano dal Pozzo
> Flora, Flora: The Aztec Herbal (Martin Clayton, Luigi Guerrini and
> Alejandro de Ávila). I think it is $175 but I waited until Barnes and Noble
> had a 50% discount for members on a book of their choice!. ****
>
>  ****
>
> There seems to be a conflation of nomenclature referring to species of the
> Aizoaceae and Crassulaceae families on the one hand, and the verdolaga
> (Portulaca oleracea L.) on the other. One evidence is what I mentioned of
> the tetsmitl look-alike being Trianthema portulacastrum L. (Aizoaceae). It
> is an interesting coincidence that in Latin the species name is
> portulacastrum (I am not sure what the latin suffix means here)
>
> In the Balsas valley there is also a:itsmitl, Ludwigia peploides (Kunth)
> Raven (Onagraeae), which suggests a division te+ itsmitl vs. a:+ itsmitl.
> Both are very low lying plants. A further example is tli:ltik a:itsmitl
> Bourreria spathulata (Miers.) Hemsl. (Boraginaceae).****
>
>  ****
>
> Many have identified tetsmitl as a Sedum spp. (Crassulaceae) another of
> those fleshy-leaved plants (cf Alejandro de Avila, p. 86). In the Sierra
> Norte de Puebla Kalanchoe pinnata (Lam.) (Crassulaceae) is called
> sese:kpahtli. It is not unusual for fleshy-leafed plants to be called
> something along these lines given that the leaves can be cut open parallel
> to their surfaces and are cool inside, often used as compressed.****
>
>  ****
>
> Where did you get the information on vowel length in Acatlan?****
>
>  ****
>
> There is documentation of teo:no:chtli as a Pachycereus sp as various
> authors have given this for Hernandez and Badianus. In Ameyaltepec I have
> teono:xtli and in Oapan tekono:xtli. I checked as much as I could until I
> finally resigned myself to a short /o/ in Ameyaltepec. The local cognate
> for classical teo:- is tio:-, not teo-, so perhaps this is a frozen form
> with irregular length. The /k/ is unusual in Oapan, but clearly the same
> etymology. Oapan has komitetl for 'bone' and in several other cases seem to
> insert /k/ for no clear reason or established pattern. Most often it is
> deleted (telesa for teliksa, ixitl for ikxitl, etc.). I do not think
> tekono:xtli is related to teko:n+no:chtli. But I would think that
> teo:no:chtli and teno:chtli are different.****
>
>  ****
>
>  ****
>
>  ****
>
>  ****
>
>  ****
>
>  ****
>
>  ****
>
> On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 3:40 PM, David Wright <dcwright at prodigy.net.mx>
> wrote:****
>
> Jonathan:****
>
>  ****
>
> Molina has “Tetzmitl. cierta yerua”. Since there doesn’t seem to be a noun
> “tetztli”, I first thought of te + i:tz + mi:tl, but this combination
> should take the form tei:tzmi:tl, considering the length of the first two
> vowels and the usual patterns of elision (at least in 16th century central
> Mexican Nahuatl), so I guess the first syllable must be the indefinite
> human possessive prefix te:-, thus te:tzmi:tl, “someone’s obsidian arrow”
> or “people’s obsidian arrow”, although I still miss the i: of i:tz(tli).
> The fact that in Acatlán, Guerrero i:tzmi:tl is “verdolaga” is what most
> tempts me to restore the i:.****
>
>  ****
>
> Your tekono:xtli looks like the hypothetical classical Nahuatl word
> teco:nno:chtli, (teco:ma - a)+ no:chtli (m + n > nn), “prickly pear of the
> globular pot” or “globular prickly pear”. Both morphophonological changes
> would be regular in early colonial central Nahuatl.****
>
>  ****
>
> Teono:xtli as Pachycereus grandis coincides with the illustration of the
> “Teonochtli” in the Codex Cruz-Badiano (f. 17v), depicting a single-column
> organ pipe cactus. I suppose that would be teo:no:chtli (teo: + no:chtli)
> in classical Nahuatl.****
>
>  ****
>
> So far the strongest evidence I have that the word teno:chtli was used to
> name a species of plant (other than the toponymical and mythical aspects
> mentioned by Roberto) is the brief description given by Francisco Hernández
> in the 16th century:****
>
>
> http://www.ibiologia.unam.mx/plantasnuevaespana/pdf/historia_de_las_plantas_III_6_4.pdf#page=10Other than this, the botanical use of the word seems quite scarce
> throughout time and space.****
>
>  ****
>
> (By the way, the Instituto de Biología of the UNAM put up a very
> functional electronic version of Hernández’s botanical treatise last year.
> That’s where the preceding URL is from; the home page is here:
> http://www.ibiologia.unam.mx/plantasnuevaespana/ I’ve needed a resource
> like this for years.)****
>
>  ****
>
> Thanks again for your help. I’ll copy this to the list to see if anyone
> has any more useful comments.****
>
>  ****
>
> *******************************************************
>
> De:   Jonathan Amith [jdanahuatl at gmail.com]****
>
> Enviado el: viernes, 04 de noviembre de 2011 07:36****
>
> Para: roberto romero****
>
> CC:   David Wright; Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org****
>
> Asunto:     Re: [Nahuat-l] Tunas and purslane****
>
>  ****
>
> Hi David,****
>
> In the Balsas valley of Guerrero tetsmitl is Portulaca oleracea L.
> (verdolaga). There is a tetsmitl "look alike" í:tlatlá:k in Oapan, that is
> an Aizoaceae, Trianthema portulacastrum L.****
>
> For the Opuntia I have tekono:xtli in Oapan, and teono:xtli (sic) for the
> inside rods of a certain cactus, apparently Pachycereus grandis Rose, but
> maybe also some Opuntias. .****
>
> ** **
>
_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From jdanahuatl at gmail.com  Sat Nov  5 22:41:15 2011
From: jdanahuatl at gmail.com (Jonathan Amith)
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2011 18:41:15 -0400
Subject: Tunas and purslane
In-Reply-To: <001401cc9bec$746dc5c0$5d495140$@net.mx>
Message-ID: <SAT.5.NOV.2011.184115.0400.JDANAHUATL@GMAIL.COM>

Hi David,

The reference to obsidian is for itzmiquilitl "Del itzmiquilitl o verdura
parecida a las puntas de itztli de las flechas." There are 7 varieties
given all said to be "siemprevivas".  Whether the itsmi- here is different
than the roots in tetsmitl/a:itsmitl... who knows? But the drawing is
definitely different than a verdolaga (Hernandez, Libro 11 Cap. XLVIII).
They are all called siempreviva, which is often a term for Sedum spp. (one
could look into 16th century Spanish terminology). In the comentaries to
Hernandez this is suggested to be aTalinum, a genus that used to be in the
same family as verdolaga. The commentaries seem to be missing in the
published version for the plants on II:13, i.e., the seven types of
itzmiquilitl.

The blades of the Portulaca oleraceae don't look much like obsidian blades
to me!



On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 2:55 PM, David Wright <dcwright at prodigy.net.mx>wrote:

> Estimado Johnathan:****
>
> ** **
>
> I am reluctant to give up the itztli/i:tztli + mi:tl etymology for
> itzmitl/aitzmitl/teitzmitl, since it is the only hypothesis I can come up
> with, and it seems to make sense (arrow heads resemble leaves), but your
> data does show the lack of vowel-length correspondence (mitl vs. mi:tl),
> even if we admit both itztli and i:tztli as variant forms for obsidian.***
> *
>
> ** **
>
> I couldn’t find any mention of blades in Hernández’s treatise, in the
> parts describing tetzmitl or either of the two classes of aitzmitl.****
>
> ** **
>
> The pictorial sign for Itzmiquilpan in the Codex Mendoza (f. 27r) shows
> what looks like a sprig of purslane over a cultivated field, with one leaf
> in the form of a white almond-shaped blade with a red tip. This, however,
> is not necessarily evidence of the semantic value of the toponym, since
> pictorial signs were used to express ideas (semasiography), morphemes
> (logography), and phonic units such as syllables and phonemes
> (phonography). Thus the blade could represent the idea of a blade, the
> morpheme itz/i:tz (sound with meaning), and/or the syllable itz/i:tz (just
> the sound, opening up the possibility of homophonic or cuasihomophonic
> morpheme play). The fact that the scribe/painter thought of a blade when
> representing this toponym, however, lends some degree of strength to the
> itztli/i:tztli + mi:tl hypothesis. The whiteness of the lower half of the
> blade is another problem, since obsidian in the codices is usually painted
> black (although obsidian itself comes in a wide variety of colors).****
>
> ** **
>
> Saludos,****
>
> ** **
>
> David****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> *De:* Jonathan Amith [mailto:jdanahuatl at gmail.com]
> *Enviado el:* sábado, 05 de noviembre de 2011 11:54
>
> *Para:* David Wright
> *CC:* Nahuat-l
> *Asunto:* Re: [Nahuat-l] Tunas and purslane****
>
> ** **
>
> Hi David,****
>
>  ****
>
> Yes, Matias Alonso does not mark vowel length, hence my question. It is
> actually interestingly organized as a word menu (by semantic field)
> although the final aspirations are randomly marked or not marked. I am not
> sure that the root in itsmitl (tetsmitl-a:itsmitl) is in any way related to
> i:tstli even though Hernandez does relate the semantics of the plant and
> blade.****
>
>  ****
>
> In the Balsa area to:mohtli is the term for the prickly pear fruit and
> discussions about whether a given plant is a to:motli is based on whether
> it produces this fruit. No:chtli is used only for no:chmahtlapahli, a very
> small, low-to-the ground Opuntia that I have not yet had identified (it was
> just collected this summer; its fruit is used to color masa when totopoxtli
> (sweet, ruffled tortillas) are made for Corpus Christi. I havenºt found
> to:mohtli in any other sources to date.****
>
>  ****
>
> By the way, I have put up a few notes on
> http://www.balsas-nahuatl.org/ethnobiology . They are quite random for
> now. The chapolin one discusses a general approach.****
>
>  ****
>
> Jonathan****
>
> ** **
>
_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx  Sat Nov  5 17:04:17 2011
From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright)
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2011 11:04:17 -0600
Subject: Tunas and purslane
In-Reply-To: <CAD_TCBGZ_MYD47u_57csk3zCJrMSDZBACEQMqLw--OkLzkrQGg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SAT.5.NOV.2011.110417.0600.DCWRIGHT@PRODIGY.NET.MX>

Estimado Jonathan:

 

Thanks. This is all very useful.

 

Just last week I was talking Nahuatl etymology and botany over coffee with
Alejandro de Ávila in Puebla, at the annual Otopames conference. In fact,
his suggestion that you would have useful information on this topic was my
initial motivation to post my questions regarding tunas and purslane to this
list. He sent me a link to the order form for the Paper Museum volume and
it’s on my desk as I write. The publishers are selling it for $196 USD, so
I’m still thinking about it, but now that I’ve acquired a deeper awareness
of the importance of biology in iconographical and toponymical studies, and
having read your comments on the studies included in this volume, I probably
won’t be able to hold out much longer.

 

I noticed that Francisco Hernández also has “tetzmitl” (buried in his
description of tzonpachtli, book 1, chapter 161) and “aytzmitl” (twice: book
3, chapters 67 and 211). Your suggestion that this may be a semantic
contrast is duly noted, and tips the scale in my head in favor of te(tl)
rather than te:-. The fact that Molina also registers “tetzmitl” and that
the loss of the i: of i:tz(tli) doesn’t fit the usual pattern still sets off
a flashing red light, but there have been other times when Nahuatl doesn’t
seem to fit into our grammatical and morphophonological expectations.

 

I’m sorry about having slipped colons into the Acatlán word “itzmitl”. My
head was in automatic long-vowel restoration mode, and I was assuming that
the roots were i:tz(tli) + mi:tl. My only source is the *Vocabulario
náhuatl-español de Acatlán, Guerrero* by Marcos Matías Alonso and
Constantino Medina Lima (2nd. ed., CIESAS/Plaza y Valdés, 1996), and vowel
contrast is not marked. I just checked my main long-vowel-marking
dictionaries. Karttunen gives i:tztli, Bierhorst itztli, and Wolf both
i:tztli and itztli, so the i in this noun doesn’t appear to be long across
the board. It’s always long in mi:tl, though.

 

So tekono:xtli is just teono:xtli with an extra /k/. I never would have
guessed that.

 

I think you’re right about the botanical difference between teo:no:chtli and
teno:chtli. The 16th century sources make it clear that the former is an
organ pipe cactus (Pachycereus sp.) and the latter is a prickly pear
(Opuntia sp.) (see the Florentine Codex [book 11, chapter 7, paragraph 12],
Francisco Hernández’s botanical treatise [book 6, chapters 108, 110], the
Codex Cruz-Badiano [f. 17v], and the toponymical signs in the pictorial
sources, e.g. Codex Mendoza: “Tenochtitlan” [ff. 2r, 4v, 19r] vs.
“Teonochtitlan” [f. 42r]). Several authors have confused the two (e.g. Laura
White Olascoaga and Carmen Zepeda Gómez, *El paraíso botánico del convento
de Malinalco, estado de México* [Toluca, UAEM, 2005], where the organ pipe
cactus is unfortunately depicted and described under the heading
“Tenochtli”). In Nahua plant taxonomy the “generic” part of the word,
no:chtli, refers to cactus fruit, in contrast to modern botanical taxonomy,
where the morphology of the plant as a whole determines the genus. This
important distinction has confused a lot of people.

 

Thanks again for your invaluable input, which will be cited in my paper (now
over six weeks past deadline, thanks to my new interest in botany), using
the Nahuat-l Archives site as a reference.

 

Saludos desde Guanajuato,

 

David

 

De: Jonathan Amith [mailto:jdanahuatl at gmail.com] 
Enviado el: viernes, 04 de noviembre de 2011 21:44
Para: David Wright
CC: Nahuat-l
Asunto: Re: [Nahuat-l] Tunas and purslane

 

Hi David,

 

There is a commentary to the works of Hernández, vol. 7 in the UNAM series
(this vol. published 1984). A fantastic commentary is that of Alejandro de
Avila on The Badianus, published as The Paper Museum of Cassiano dal Pozzo
Flora, Flora: The Aztec Herbal (Martin Clayton, Luigi Guerrini and Alejandro
de Ávila). I think it is $175 but I waited until Barnes and Noble had a 50%
discount for members on a book of their choice!. 

 

There seems to be a conflation of nomenclature referring to species of the
Aizoaceae and Crassulaceae families on the one hand, and the verdolaga
(Portulaca oleracea L.) on the other. One evidence is what I mentioned of
the tetsmitl look-alike being Trianthema portulacastrum L. (Aizoaceae). It
is an interesting coincidence that in Latin the species name is
portulacastrum (I am not sure what the latin suffix means here)

In the Balsas valley there is also a:itsmitl, Ludwigia peploides (Kunth)
Raven (Onagraeae), which suggests a division te+ itsmitl vs. a:+ itsmitl.
Both are very low lying plants. A further example is tli:ltik a:itsmitl
Bourreria spathulata (Miers.) Hemsl. (Boraginaceae).

 

Many have identified tetsmitl as a Sedum spp. (Crassulaceae) another of
those fleshy-leaved plants (cf Alejandro de Avila, p. 86). In the Sierra
Norte de Puebla Kalanchoe pinnata (Lam.) (Crassulaceae) is called
sese:kpahtli. It is not unusual for fleshy-leafed plants to be called
something along these lines given that the leaves can be cut open parallel
to their surfaces and are cool inside, often used as compressed.

 

Where did you get the information on vowel length in Acatlan?

 

There is documentation of teo:no:chtli as a Pachycereus sp as various
authors have given this for Hernandez and Badianus. In Ameyaltepec I have
teono:xtli and in Oapan tekono:xtli. I checked as much as I could until I
finally resigned myself to a short /o/ in Ameyaltepec. The local cognate for
classical teo:- is tio:-, not teo-, so perhaps this is a frozen form with
irregular length. The /k/ is unusual in Oapan, but clearly the same
etymology. Oapan has komitetl for 'bone' and in several other cases seem to
insert /k/ for no clear reason or established pattern. Most often it is
deleted (telesa for teliksa, ixitl for ikxitl, etc.). I do not think
tekono:xtli is related to teko:n+no:chtli. But I would think that
teo:no:chtli and teno:chtli are different.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 3:40 PM, David Wright <dcwright at prodigy.net.mx>
wrote:

Jonathan:

 

Molina has “Tetzmitl. cierta yerua”. Since there doesn’t seem to be a noun
“tetztli”, I first thought of te + i:tz + mi:tl, but this combination should
take the form tei:tzmi:tl, considering the length of the first two vowels
and the usual patterns of elision (at least in 16th century central Mexican
Nahuatl), so I guess the first syllable must be the indefinite human
possessive prefix te:-, thus te:tzmi:tl, “someone’s obsidian arrow” or
“people’s obsidian arrow”, although I still miss the i: of i:tz(tli). The
fact that in Acatlán, Guerrero i:tzmi:tl is “verdolaga” is what most tempts
me to restore the i:.

 

Your tekono:xtli looks like the hypothetical classical Nahuatl word
teco:nno:chtli, (teco:ma - a)+ no:chtli (m + n > nn), “prickly pear of the
globular pot” or “globular prickly pear”. Both morphophonological changes
would be regular in early colonial central Nahuatl.

 

Teono:xtli as Pachycereus grandis coincides with the illustration of the
“Teonochtli” in the Codex Cruz-Badiano (f. 17v), depicting a single-column
organ pipe cactus. I suppose that would be teo:no:chtli (teo: + no:chtli) in
classical Nahuatl.

 

So far the strongest evidence I have that the word teno:chtli was used to
name a species of plant (other than the toponymical and mythical aspects
mentioned by Roberto) is the brief description given by Francisco Hernández
in the 16th century:

http://www.ibiologia.unam.mx/plantasnuevaespana/pdf/historia_de_las_plantas_
III_6_4.pdf#page=10 Other than this, the botanical use of the word seems
quite scarce throughout time and space.

 

(By the way, the Instituto de Biología of the UNAM put up a very functional
electronic version of Hernández’s botanical treatise last year. That’s where
the preceding URL is from; the home page is here:
http://www.ibiologia.unam.mx/plantasnuevaespana/ I’ve needed a resource like
this for years.)

 

Thanks again for your help. I’ll copy this to the list to see if anyone has
any more useful comments.

 

***************************************************

De:   Jonathan Amith [jdanahuatl at gmail.com]

Enviado el: viernes, 04 de noviembre de 2011 07:36

Para: roberto romero

CC:   David Wright; Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org

Asunto:     Re: [Nahuat-l] Tunas and purslane

 

Hi David,

In the Balsas valley of Guerrero tetsmitl is Portulaca oleracea L.
(verdolaga). There is a tetsmitl "look alike" í:tlatlá:k in Oapan, that is
an Aizoaceae, Trianthema portulacastrum L.

For the Opuntia I have tekono:xtli in Oapan, and teono:xtli (sic) for the
inside rods of a certain cactus, apparently Pachycereus grandis Rose, but
maybe also some Opuntias. .

 

_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx  Sat Nov  5 18:55:15 2011
From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright)
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2011 12:55:15 -0600
Subject: Tunas and purslane
In-Reply-To: <CAD_TCBFgoZNbfxDn__3MvXwt88-x=s2L7yKD8wKPi3RaRRtkPw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SAT.5.NOV.2011.125515.0600.DCWRIGHT@PRODIGY.NET.MX>

Estimado Johnathan:

 

I am reluctant to give up the itztli/i:tztli + mi:tl etymology for
itzmitl/aitzmitl/teitzmitl, since it is the only hypothesis I can come up
with, and it seems to make sense (arrow heads resemble leaves), but your
data does show the lack of vowel-length correspondence (mitl vs. mi:tl),
even if we admit both itztli and i:tztli as variant forms for obsidian.

 

I couldn’t find any mention of blades in Hernández’s treatise, in the parts
describing tetzmitl or either of the two classes of aitzmitl.

 

The pictorial sign for Itzmiquilpan in the Codex Mendoza (f. 27r) shows what
looks like a sprig of purslane over a cultivated field, with one leaf in the
form of a white almond-shaped blade with a red tip. This, however, is not
necessarily evidence of the semantic value of the toponym, since pictorial
signs were used to express ideas (semasiography), morphemes (logography),
and phonic units such as syllables and phonemes (phonography). Thus the
blade could represent the idea of a blade, the morpheme itz/i:tz (sound with
meaning), and/or the syllable itz/i:tz (just the sound, opening up the
possibility of homophonic or cuasihomophonic morpheme play). The fact that
the scribe/painter thought of a blade when representing this toponym,
however, lends some degree of strength to the itztli/i:tztli + mi:tl
hypothesis. The whiteness of the lower half of the blade is another problem,
since obsidian in the codices is usually painted black (although obsidian
itself comes in a wide variety of colors).

 

Saludos,

 

David

 

 

De: Jonathan Amith [mailto:jdanahuatl at gmail.com] 
Enviado el: sábado, 05 de noviembre de 2011 11:54
Para: David Wright
CC: Nahuat-l
Asunto: Re: [Nahuat-l] Tunas and purslane

 

Hi David,

 

Yes, Matias Alonso does not mark vowel length, hence my question. It is
actually interestingly organized as a word menu (by semantic field) although
the final aspirations are randomly marked or not marked. I am not sure that
the root in itsmitl (tetsmitl-a:itsmitl) is in any way related to i:tstli
even though Hernandez does relate the semantics of the plant and blade.

 

In the Balsa area to:mohtli is the term for the prickly pear fruit and
discussions about whether a given plant is a to:motli is based on whether it
produces this fruit. No:chtli is used only for no:chmahtlapahli, a very
small, low-to-the ground Opuntia that I have not yet had identified (it was
just collected this summer; its fruit is used to color masa when totopoxtli
(sweet, ruffled tortillas) are made for Corpus Christi. I havenºt found
to:mohtli in any other sources to date.

 

By the way, I have put up a few notes on
http://www.balsas-nahuatl.org/ethnobiology . They are quite random for now.
The chapolin one discusses a general approach.

 

Jonathan

 

_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx  Sun Nov  6 21:42:07 2011
From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright)
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2011 15:42:07 -0600
Subject: Tunas and purslane
Message-ID: <SUN.6.NOV.2011.154207.0600.DCWRIGHT@PRODIGY.NET.MX>

Estimado Jonathan:

 

For the moment I only have the 2010 digital version of the 1942-1946 IB-UNAM edition, which is incomplete (it only has books 1-7, so itzmiquilitl is not included), and a digital facsimile (from Google Books) of the 1790 edition in Latin, which lacks the illustrations. In the latter edition “YTZMIQUILITL” is at vol. 2, p. 468 (book 10, chapter 48). I just noticed that there is another species of tetzmitl, called “TEPETETZMITL”: vol. 2, p. 469 (book 10, chapter 50), that we can add to the list of varieties of plants containing itz(tli) + mi(tl).

 

“Blade” is probably not the best term in English, because when taken out of context (“almond-shaped blade”) it evokes prismatic obsidian blades, which are quite different in form and manufacturing technique. The resemblance between obsidian almond-shaped sacrificial knives, the leaves of some plants, and some varieties of obsidian projectile points is only approximate. Obsidian knapped into a sacrificial knife or projectile point seems to have been associated with certain plants in the ancient Nahua minds. (Translucent green obsidian would look even more like a leaf than black or grey obsidian.) The biggest difference in shape between this sort of object and a purslane leaf would be the latter’s lack of a point.

 

That a 16th century Nahua scribe-painter made such an association is evident in the Codex Mendoza, in the pictorial sign for Itzmiquilpan (f. 27r), mentioned earlier in this thread. See:

 

http://oldweb.geog.berkeley.edu/ProjectsResources/Glyphs/Plate15/Itzmiquilpan.html

 

The latter link includes Antonio Peñafiel’s etymology, first published in 1885, in which he incorrectly associates the syllable “mi” with “milli” (the /l/ shouldn’t be assimilated) instead of “mi(tl)” (the latter having been recorded by Hernández in the chapter you just mentioned).

 

The Itzmiquilpan-purslane link is much clearer in the Otomi toponym, since the same Otomi word is used for both the place and the plant. The Nahuatl associations between specific words and botanical species are turning out to be harder to work out.

 

To sum up, the strongest connection between Portulaca oleracea and a plant with the words itz(tli) and mi(tl) that I’ve seen so far is the association of “itzmitl” and “verdolaga” in the Acatlán dictionary, together with your identification of “tetzmitl” as “Portulaca oleracea”, although there are other varieties of itzmitl: aitzmitl and tepetetzmitl. The verbal description of the “itzmiquilitl” in the Florentine Codex fits well with P. oleracea, while the drawing labeled “itzmiquilitl” in this manuscript doesn’t look like purslane, nor does it appear to coincide with the verbal description. The morpheme quilitl refers to edible leafy plants, so it looks like the itzmiquilitl is the itzmitl that people liked to eat, among the wider category of plants called itzmitl.

 

Here are my transcription, phonemic version, and translation of the Nahuatl text in the Florentine Codex (vol. 3, f. 287r [book 11, chapter 3]) (I hope all of the characters survive the journey through cyberspace):

 

¶ Itzmiquilitl, mouiuilanani, cel

patic, matitilactic, matitilac

ton, ixiaiaoaltoton paoaxoni.

 

Ītzmīquilitl mohuīhuilānani celpahtic mātītilactic mātītilactōn īxyayahualtotōn pāhuaxōni

 

“La hierba comestible de flecha de obsidiana es rastera, tierna y verde, con las ramitas gruesas y las hojitas redondas; se cuece en la olla”.

 

Thanks again for sharing the fruits of your work in Guerrero and your comments on the 16th century sources, all of which have been very useful.

 

Un abrazo,

 

David

 

P.S. I have one more question: in the 1790 edition of Hernández (loc. cit.) I don’t find the seven types of itzmiquilitl that you mention. Is this in another chapter?

 

De: Jonathan Amith [mailto:jdanahuatl at gmail.com] 
Enviado el: sábado, 05 de noviembre de 2011 16:41
Para: David Wright
CC: Nahuat-l
Asunto: Re: [Nahuat-l] Tunas and purslane

 

Hi David,

 

The reference to obsidian is for itzmiquilitl "Del itzmiquilitl o verdura parecida a las puntas de itztli de las flechas." There are 7 varieties given all said to be "siemprevivas".  Whether the itsmi- here is different than the roots in tetsmitl/a:itsmitl... who knows? But the drawing is definitely different than a verdolaga (Hernandez, Libro 11 Cap. XLVIII). They are all called siempreviva, which is often a term for Sedum spp. (one could look into 16th century Spanish terminology). In the comentaries to Hernandez this is suggested to be aTalinum, a genus that used to be in the same family as verdolaga. The commentaries seem to be missing in the published version for the plants on II:13, i.e., the seven types of itzmiquilitl.

 

The blades of the Portulaca oleraceae don't look much like obsidian blades to me!

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From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx  Mon Nov  7 00:21:41 2011
From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright)
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2011 18:21:41 -0600
Subject: Tunas and purslane
Message-ID: <SUN.6.NOV.2011.182141.0600.DCWRIGHT@PRODIGY.NET.MX>

Jonathan:

 

To get things a bit more organized, I made a list of Nahuatl plant names
that appear to contain the nominal radicals itz(tli)/i:tz(tli) and mi:(tl),
in Francisco Hernández’s botanical treatise, 1790 and 1942-1946 editions.
There may be more, but these are all I’ve found to date. I’m sending them to
you and to the list, in case anyone else needs to track these down in the
future.

 

aitzmitl (1) - book 3, chapter 67 - vol. 1, p. 232 (1790) - vol. 2, p. 369
(1942-1946)

 

aitzmitl (2) - book 3, chapter 211 - vol. 1, p. 318 (1790) - vol. 2, p. 480
(1942-1946)

 

itzmiquilitl - book 10, chapter 48 - vol. 2, p. 468 (1790) - (not in
1942-1946 edition)

 

tepetetzmitl - book 10, chapter 50 - vol. 2, p. 469 (1790) - (not in
1942-1946 edition)

 

tepitontetzmitl - book 10, chapter 56 - vol. 2, p. 471 (1790) - (not in
1942-1946 edition)

                             

tetzmilpatli - book 10, chapter 54 - vol. 2, p. 470 (1790) - (not in
1942-1946 edition)

 

tetzmitl (1) - book 1, chapter 161 - vol. 1, p. 89 (1790) - vol. 1, p. 140
(1942-1946)

 

tetzmitl (2) - book 10, chapter 52 - vol. 2, p. 470 (1790) - (not in
1942-1946 edition)

 

tetzmitl (3) - book 10, chapter 53 - vol. 2, p. 470 (1790) - (not in
1942-1946 edition)

 

tetzmitl (4) - book 19, chapter 306 - vol. 3, p. 306 (1790) - (not in
1942-1946 edition)

 

tlaltetzmitl - book 10, chapter 55 - vol. 2, p. 471 (1790) - (not in
1942-1946 edition)

 

Web sources

 

Hernández, Francisco

 

2010    Historia de las plantas de Nueva España, digital facsimile of the
1942-1946 ed., 3 vols., Isaac Ochoterena, director, Mexico, Instituto de
Botánica, Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México, 2010

http://www.ibiologia.unam.mx/plantasnuevaespana

access: Nov. 6, 2011.

 

not dated    “Opera [De historia plantarum novae hispaniae]”, 3 vols.,
facsímil digital de la ed. de 1790, en Google Books

http://books.google.com/books?id=zX6pXnGTnowC&dq=related%3AHARVARD3204410726
3105&hl=es&pg=PP1#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=ArT6VtFZX38C&dq=related%3AHARVARD3204410726
3105&hl=es&pg=PP5#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=CGug2EKWcwoC&dq=related%3AHARVARD3204410726
3105&hl=es&pg=PP5#v=onepage&q&f=false

access: Nov. 6, 2011.

_______________________________________________
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Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx  Tue Nov  8 15:31:23 2011
From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 09:31:23 -0600
Subject: Tunas and purslane
Message-ID: <TUE.8.NOV.2011.093123.0600.DCWRIGHT@PRODIGY.NET.MX>

In the 1790 edition of Hernández, the chapter on the Itzmiquilitl is in book
11, chapter 48. I thought it was book 10 because there is a typographical
error in the cornice of the preceding page (467), where it says NOVAE
HISPAN. LIBER X. I am attaching a corrected version of the table of
references to possible itztli/i:tztli + mi:tl words in this source that I
sent to this list on November 6.

 

****************************************************************************
******************

 

aitzmitl (1) - book 3, chapter 67 - vol. 1, p. 232 (1790) - vol. 2, p. 369
(1942-1946)

 

aitzmitl (2) - book 3, chapter 211 - vol. 1, p. 318 (1790) - vol. 2, p. 480
(1942-1946)

 

itzmiquilitl - book 11, chapter 48 - vol. 2, p. 468 (1790) - (not in
1942-1946 edition)

 

tepetetzmitl - book 10, chapter 50 - vol. 2, p. 469 (1790) - (not in
1942-1946 edition)

 

tepitontetzmitl - book 10, chapter 56 - vol. 2, p. 471 (1790) - (not in
1942-1946 edition)

                             

tetzmilpatli - book 10, chapter 54 - vol. 2, p. 470 (1790) - (not in
1942-1946 edition)

 

tetzmitl (1) - book 1, chapter 161 - vol. 1, p. 89 (1790) - vol. 1, p. 140
(1942-1946)

 

tetzmitl (2) - book 10, chapter 52 - vol. 2, p. 470 (1790) - (not in
1942-1946 edition)

 

tetzmitl (3) - book 10, chapter 53 - vol. 2, p. 470 (1790) - (not in
1942-1946 edition)

 

tetzmitl (4) - book 19, chapter 306 - vol. 3, p. 306 (1790) - (not in
1942-1946 edition)

 

tlaltetzmitl - book 10, chapter 55 - vol. 2, p. 471 (1790) - (not in
1942-1946 edition)

 

Web sources

 

Hernández, Francisco

 

2010    Historia de las plantas de Nueva España, digital facsimile of the
1942-1946 ed., 3 vols., Isaac Ochoterena, director, Mexico, Instituto de
Botánica, Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México, 2010

http://www.ibiologia.unam.mx/plantasnuevaespana

access: Nov. 6, 2011.

 

not dated    “Opera [De historia plantarum novae hispaniae]”, 3 vols.,
facsímil digital de la ed. de 1790, en Google Books

http://books.google.com/books?id=zX6pXnGTnowC&dq=related%3AHARVARD3204410726
3105&hl=es&pg=PP1#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=ArT6VtFZX38C&dq=related%3AHARVARD3204410726
3105&hl=es&pg=PP5#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=CGug2EKWcwoC&dq=related%3AHARVARD3204410726
3105&hl=es&pg=PP5#v=onepage&q&f=false

access: Nov. 6, 2011.

_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From cuecuex at gmail.com  Wed Nov  9 06:36:03 2011
From: cuecuex at gmail.com (roberto romero)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 00:36:03 -0600
Subject: Tunas and purslane
In-Reply-To: <001401cc9e2b$78bbfcf0$6a33f6d0$@net.mx>
Message-ID: <WED.9.NOV.2011.003603.0600.CUECUEX@GMAIL.COM>

Que me toquen el Quelite

Hola David y demas foristas

Siguiendo con el tema colocado en la mesa por David , este nos dio un
link para poder ver la imagen de Iztmiquilpan del códice mendocino y
leer la interpretación del jeroglífico que hizo Peñafiel y la
propuesta de este autor como traducción de Iztmiquilpan

Sobre este nombre escribio el sabio Peñafiel  a fines del siglo XIX:

“Itzmiquilpan. -- Itz mi quil pan. -- Ixmiguilpa.
Este jeroglífico puede citarse como el tipo del mayor grado de
adelanto de la escritura silábica mexicana: la palabra está escrita con
elementos fonéticos, y usándose de los recursos ideográficos y
figurativos de que podían disponer los nahoas.”
http://oldweb.geog.berkeley.edu/ProjectsResources/Glyphs/Plate15/Itzmiquilpan.html

De acuerdo a Peñafiel

“El termino  Itz, es expresado por un tecpatl, un cuchillo de pedernal
tinto en rojo de sangre, es el símbolo del cuchillo utilizado en los
sacrificios humanos..

mi, radical de milli, tierra cultivada, está debajo del primer signo

y entre ambos una planta herbácea encorvada, que dice quil, radical de
quilitl, yerba comestible

y pan sobre, final expresada por la superposicion del tecpatl sobre
toda la figura.

Itzmiquilitl, planta rastrera, de hojas.

En la propuesta de Peñafiel destaca que según este autor esta presente
" mi, radical de milli,tierra cultivada”

y David  parece que esta de acuerdo la interpretación de campo
cultivado en la palabra Itzmiquilitl y con la interpretación del
símbolo jeroglifico como campo cultivado.

Peñafiel parte metodológicamente de manera correcta en la traducción e
interpretación de la palabra Izmiquilpan  busca  relacionar la imagen
el recurso natural de escritura de los indios con el sonido y las
palabras del idioma indígena que las imágenes le proponen, para
encontrar en ellas los elementos que componen la palabra Iztmiquilpan
.

Esta manera de trabajar de Peñafiel la continuo Robert Barlow y Byron
Mc Caffe con su Diccionario de elementos foneticos de la escritura
jeroglífica , extraídos estos del códice mendocino

El punto de partida y el rector de la traducción es la imagen, lo
pictográfico que en su interpretación adecuada o no,  va a resultar en
proponer una serie de palabras que nos pueden dan o no los componentes
que forman una palabra.

Es la imagen el punto de partida  cuando contamos con ella para
traducir una palabra que viene acompañada de un jeroglífico .

Y es el punto de partida porque el nahuatl no lo escribían los indios,
no era originalmente un idioma escrito era un idioma hablado.

Fueron sobre todo los frailes católicos los que definieron, los que
fijaron y establecieron  como escribir el nahuatl, los que crearon las
gramáticas,  las reglas ortográficas buscando vertir a caractéres
latinos las palabras que oían en la mejor o en la peor forma de cómo
las entendían.

Pero creo que  en el  dialogo que hemos visto entre David y Jhonhatan
no hemos visto esto como punto de partida esta forma de trabajo

El terreno principal donde se ha dado la discusión es en el análisis
de los componentes etimológicos de la palabra.

Mas aún se relativiza  por no decir que se niega el valor del elemento
pictórico

Señala David : “El signo pictórico de Itzmiquilpan en el Códice
Mendoza (f. 27r) Lo que muestra se parece a una rama de la verdolaga
cultivadas sobre un campo con una hoja blanca de forma almendrada con
la punta roja. Esto, sin embargo, NO ES prueba necesariamente del
valor semántico de la toponimia..

“ The pictorial sign for Itzmiquilpan in the Codex Mendoza (f. 27r) shows what
looks like a sprig of purslane over a cultivated field, with one leaf in the
form of a white almond-shaped blade with a red tip. This, however, is not
necessarily evidence of the semantic value of the toponym”

Si la toponimia de Izmiquilpan es campo cultivado de verdolagas  como
propone Peñafiel este encuentra un apoyo en la imagen.

El pintor del códice ilustró una planta con un  tallo curvo hacia el
cielo y no hacia el suelo, no enterrado en él y además  muestra que
dicho tallo fue cortado una linea horizontal termina el tallo y así lo
indica y para sugerir que fue cortado el pintor del códice puso un
punto de otro color mas claro para enfatizar la idea del corte , como
cuando uno corta un “pie o esqueje” y la planta al sufrir el corte
muestra en su parte interna un color mas claro. Vease el jeroglifico
en el link citado

En el mismo párrafo David señala

“The whiteness of the lower half of the blade is another problem,
since obsidian in the codices is usually painted black (although
obsidian itself comes in a wide variety of colors).”

Lo blanco de la mitad inferior de la hoja es otro problema. La
obsidiana en los códices usualmente esta pintada de negro (aunque la
obsidiana misma viene en una variedad amplia de colores)”.

David  nada obliga a que los cuchillos, Tecpatl ,  fueran solo hechos
de obsidiana. Podían y se han encontrado cuchillos y diversos
instrumentos de otro material como el pedernal o  la riolita, según el
uso y el recurso y la tradición litica en uso por ese pueblo.

Un ejemplo muuy famosos el cuchillo con mango de figura de caballero
águila y hoja de pedernal que esta en el Museo Britanico
http://translate.google.com.mx/translate?hl=es&langpair=en%7Ces&u=http://www.britishmuseum.org/explore/highlights/highlight_objects/aoa/k/knife_with_a_mosaic_handle.aspx

 O Que tal toda esta cantidad cuchillos de pedernal del Templo Mayor

http://translate.google.com.mx/translate?hl=es&langpair=en%7Ces&u=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Aztec_sacrificial_knives.jpg

Sin poder aportar en el elemento etimólogico creo que la imagen del
jeroglífíco del códice mendocino  sobre la que asienta la planta no
puede interpretarse como la pintura de un campo cultivado, no esta
pintado tal campo cultivado.

La figura a mi me parece ser una representación muy realista de una
tira rectangular de papel amate, un códice de papel amate  con cuatro
“hojas” que presenta incluso tres dobleces, uno de ellos al centro de
la tira que "jala" hacia atrás la tira de papel, rasgo que le da
profundidad y realismo a la imagen y otros dos dobleces que le dan
volumen a la imagen y presentan la ilusión de dos hojas hacia fuera.

Dentro de la tira de papel del jeroglífico de Izmiquilpan aparecen
rasgos que representar escritura y  cuadretes.

En el códice Aubin segunda parte  folio 1565 y 1566 se pintan
personajes leyendo noticias en documentos de dos hojas , apuntando
noticias en otro cuaderno de dos hojas aparece otro personaje en el
año 1560 y una representación de la quema de códices (Amatl) en el año
1560 , frayles cristianos leyendo un libro de oración año 1567 ,
enterandose de los pecados  año 1573,como noticia de la muerte de la
esposa del virrey año1581
(Codie Aubin Segunda parte 1520 -1608 en Tlatelolco Fuents e Historia
Rober Berlow Obra Vol 2)

En cada uno de los pictogramas citados se uso el mismo recurso de
pintar una raya central mas pequeña sobre la que convergen dos rayas
que viene de los extremos laterales superiores.  Dando así la
sensación de una hoja doblada.

En mi opinión el símbolo que se representa en el jeroglífico  de
Iztmiquilpan del códice es un Amoxtli un libro de papel de cuatro
hojas ,  no me parece que se represente un campo cultivado.

Esta interpretación  se refuerza por el hecho de que los quelites,
forma de llamar los indios a las hierbas silvestres comestibles No Se
Siembran Se Recolectan , los quelites son varias plantas y una de
ellas es la verdolaga.

Los quelites  son plantas “oportunistas” que no se siembran crecen de
forma silvestre en los campos sembrados .

Los quelites crecen y se reproducen bien en campos de cultivo  porque
como parte de las labores de cultivo esos campos han sido abonados y
crecen también en terrenos baldíos por ser dichos terreno tierras no
"desgastadas" por los cultivos.

La verdolaga se puede sembrar por semilla o por "piecitos",  esquejes,
y actualmente lo siembra gente urbana en su jardín por las propiedades
medicinales que se le atribuyen a la planta.

Pero en la agricultura tradicional  indigena y de mestizos que
comparten ese horizonte cultural y ese nivel de vida, en las
comunidades campesinas tradicionales,  los queliites incluyendo la
verdolaga No se Cultivan y Si en cambio se Recolectan, el quelite es
un resultado de la recolección y no del cultivo aunque si acompaña a
las tierras cultivadas.

De hecho para la agricultura comercial moderna, realizada bajo la
lógica capitalista y  que por tanto ya no es hecha en la forma
tradicional los quelites y entre ellos la verdolaga y otras hierbas
se les considera maleza, hierba dañina  que compite con el desarrollo
de la planta de maíz o de otras plantas cultivadas y se les elimina y
como practica de cultivo se avienta herbicida, un  veneno para incluso
impedir que surjan esas hierbas comestibles y otras que no lo son, el
herbicida arrasa parejo,  pues la forma en como ven a los quelites
incluyendo en ella a la verdolaga es la que nos dice la empresa Bayer,
 una exitosa transnacional fabricante de diversos químicos:
"Verdolaga (Portulaca oleracea). Originaria de Europa, la verdolaga es
una mala hierba anual que invade muchos cultivos, generalmente en
terrenos erosionados y pobres, donde no tiene que competir con plantas
de mayor desarrollo...”

En la agricultura comercial capitalista los quelites las hierbas
comestibles que surgían en la milpa  o parcela han por ello
desaparecido y con ello un recurso alimenticio para las familias
campesinas.

Aun actualmente si el campesino es pobre y mantiene elementos de la
cultura tradicional agrícola entonces el deshierbe lo hace a mano como
parte de las necesarias labores de cuidado de cultivo. Parte de las
hierbas que le quite a la milpa se las come pues puede identificarlas
como quelites, como comestibles.

Los campesinos indígenas prehispánicos viviendo en sociedades que no
contaban con los instrumentos técnicos actuales, descubrieron,
seguramente después de un largo periodo de experimentación, de que
entre la siembra y la cosecha de la milpa , de la tierra podían
obtener alimentos como los quelites que deben haber sido considerado
un regalo divino pues no eran producto de su trabajo sino eran como
una dadiva divina,  un regalo divino que les daba la diosa tierra u
otra deidad proveedora, una merced divina de alimento en tanto
transcurrían los 200 días  mas o menos en que una semilla de maíz
puede lograr alcanzar el ser caña con mazorcas.

El uso de hierbas comestibles recolectadas fue una práctica común de
los pueblos llamados mesoamericanos, en los cuales la caza y la
recolección no desapareció ni de la cultura ni de su forma de obtener
alimento, se mantuvo como recurso básico de su reproducción

La diferencia entre los mesoamericanos y los llamados desde la
conquista "salvajes"  o "chichimecas" no pasa por ser estos cazadores
recolectores  y los mesoamericanos no serlo, ambos continentes de
pueblos fueron y siguieron siendo cazadores recolectores, se
distinguen mas bien por el papel y peso que en el aporte de la
reproducción vital de ese pueblo tenía la agricultura, un peso que no
dependía sólo de la voluntad y cultura  de tal o cual pueblo sino
sobre todo del tipo de tierra y régimen de temporal en el que estaba
asentado ese pueblo que por ello tenía que ser preferentemente o sólo
ser cazador recolector.

De hecho en épocas de desgracias como fue la derrota de Chapultepec
para los Mexicas estos se mantuvieron comiendo hierbas acuáticas, se
les llamó por eso los comedores de mastuerzo.

Y la práctica se repitió en el sitio de Tlatelolco, mal llamado en la
educación publica sitio de  Tenochtitlan, esta ciuda nunca fue sitiada
en siete dias fue destruida . En Tlatelolco fue donde los guerreros
Tlatelolcas,  Huitznahuacas y Chalmecas bajo el mando de Cuauhtemoc
resistieron durante ochenta días cuatro veintenas,  al ejército de
decenas de miles de indios texcocanos, tlaxcaltecos, huejotzincas,
xochimilcas, chalcas y  otomis bajo el mando de Hernan Cortés y sus
capitanes los españoles.

Buscando información sobre la discusión abierta por David Wrigth
encontré un muy interesante artículo de la revista hidalguense cactus
en donde se dice
que existió otra etimolologia de Iztmiquilpan dada por Jiménez Moreno,
desafortunadamente no nos dice el nombre del artículo:
http://www.revistacactus.com.mx/articulos/?id=137&fecha=2

"a mediados del siglo XX, el célebre investigador Wigberto Jiménez
Moreno ofrece una versión diferente del asunto, pues nos dice que
Ixmiquilpan proviene de ITZ, de Itztli, pedernal; Mi de Militl,
cuchillo o navaja, de donde se obtiene la idea de Navaja de Pedernal o
como Navaja de Pedernal, o parecido a la Navaja de Pedernal; QUIL, de
Quílitl, el quelite, la hierba comestible, que por lo general —dice el
autor— no se cultiva en la milpa —como insinúa el doctor Peñafiel—,
pues crece silvestremente; y PAN, sufijo locativo que indica lugar. A
lo que agrega que el significado es “Lugar de las hierbas comestibles,
los quelites, que se parecen a la navaja de pedernal”, y tales hierbas
con ese parecido, son las verdolagas, donde el nombre significa “Lugar
de verdolagas”.

En esta propuesta de Jimenez Moreno como en la de Peñafiel, y como ha
sido tratado en la discusión entablada en los mensajes mails de David
y Jhonathan, se propone el parecido de la hoja de la verdolaga o del
quelite con el símbolo del cuchillo de obsidiana, sacrificial.

Jimenez Moreno también destaca que los quelites no se siembran y
propone que el lugar debe  traducirse simplemente  como “Lugar de
verdolagas”

Si uno analiza el dibujo del mendocino se percata  que éste no es una
representación realista o no corresponde a la verdolaga

La hoja de la verdolaga esta pintada invertida para subrayar el
parecido de las hojas con el Tecpatl buscando que las hojas parezcan
Tecpatl, cuchillos,  pues en realidad en la verdolaga la punta de la
hoja es redondeada y es la base de la hoja,  lo que la une al tallo ,
la que es mas aguda, la que es puntiaguda.

Destaca que en el jeroglífico se representen tres hojas invertidas que
junto al símbolo Tecpatl nos dan una metáfora pictórica de la fecha
cuatro Tecpatl.

Si acaso esto es correcto,  habría que ver si hay un  significado
ligado a la fecha de Cuatro Tecpatl en la historia local de ese
asentamiento de otomíes llamado iztmiquilpan   Ya antes señale que el
símbolo sobre el que reposa la planta a mi me parece un libro,  un
Amoxtli,  un códice que  tiene también cuatro hojas.  Cuatro Tecpatl
en la planta, cuatro hojas simbólicas, cuatro hojas en el codice
Amoxtli que le sirve de base.

O bien tomando sólo el único Tecpatl del jeroglifico,  esto indica
simbólicamente la  fecha Uno Tecpatl para la cual si tenemos mas
noticias pues es por ejemplo  la fecha de arranque de la migración de
los mexicas desde su lugar de origen o bien Uno Tecpatl era el inicio
de la cuenta de los años en varios pueblos.

David nos traduce el texto nahuatl del códice Florentino de la planta
Itzmiquilitl: “La hierba comestible de flecha de obsidiana es
rastrera, tierna y verde, con las ramitas gruesas y las hojitas
redondas; se cuece en la olla”.

Resulta que los informantes de Sahagún ven a las hojas de la planta
Itzmiquilitl como puntas de flechas de obsidiana, no como navajas o
cuchillos.

David señala “The resemblance between obsidian almond-shaped
sacrificial knives, the leaves of some plants, and some varieties of
obsidian projectile points is only approximate”.

En verdad no es tan aproximada. Entre la variedad de formas de flechas
según el uso y la tradición lítica del pueblo que las fabrico hay
puntas de flecha que se asemejan a las formas de la hojas de la
verdolaga habría que ver que puntas de flecha o de venablo o dardo
arrojadizo se han hallado en esa región del valle del Mezquital
poblada por otomies .

De hecho la forma almendrada de las hojas de la verdolaga es uno de
las formas mas usadas en la elaboración de intrumentos u objetos de
piedra bifaciales:

“Un bifaz es una herramienta lítica prehistórica de cronología muy
larga, pero que caracteriza, sobre todo, una etapa de la Edad de
Piedra: el Achelense (se encuentra también, además, en el Paleolítico
Medio e, incluso, con posterioridad). Su nombre le viene de que el
modelo arquetípico sería una pieza de talla, generalmente, bifacial
(esto es, con dos caras), de morfología almendrada y tendente a la
simetría según un eje longitudinal y según un plano de aplastamiento.
Los bifaces más comunes tienen la zona terminal en punta y la base
redondeada “ http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bifaz
 En la página citada se ilustra con Primer bifaz publicado en la
historia de la Arqueología, por John Frere (año 1800).

Precisa Jonahthan que según Francisco Hernández la Itzmiquilitl era la
planta "siempreviva” que es algo distinto a la verdolaga . Tenemos
otra identidad de la hierba del jeroglífico. Y no para ahí la cosa

Don Leogivildo Islas Escarcega  en su Diccionario Rural  de México nos
propone otra identidad del quelite  y los liga a plantas de la familia
del amaranto, de las amarantaceas,   160 generos y 2400 especies  que
tampoco se relacionan con la verdolaga o las siempre vivas  o que un
biologo botánico por favor me corrija.

“Quelite Del nahua quiilitl, yerba comestible. Nombre vulgar de varias
plantas  herbáceas que se comen como verduras. En la mesa central,
donde reeularmente se produce en las sementeras es muy común en la
alimentación campesina.

Quelite Bronco Variedad de quelite propia del Noroeste (Amaranthus polygonoides)

Quelite Cenizo Otra de las variedades de esta planta , muy común en la
mesa central ( Chenopodium Mexicanum ).

Quelite Cuale Nombre que dan en Sinaloa a una planta labiada (Tenerium cubense)

Quelite de Espiga Planta amarantacea variedad del quelite común
(Amaranthus hypocondriacus .

Quelite de Puerco Planta quenopodiácea de la frontera norte.

Quelite de Zorrillo Nombre de un quelite al que también se conoce con
la denominación de quelite apestoso.

Quelite espinoso Planta amarantacea mexicana Amaranthus spinosus

“Quelites y Calabacitas en las primeras agüitas “. Refran  con que se
indica la temporada en que estas pplantas y frutos deben comerse,
porque es cuando estan tiernos. En sentido figurado , que todo hay que
hacerlo a su tiempo.” Op.cit p209 Realmente el sentido del refrán es
que hay que hacerlo en el momento justo, adecuado, preciso.

Parece que por el camino de la hierbas no llegamos a muy buen puerto y
la confusión es mayor.

Regresemos al punto de partida el jeróglífico de Izmiquilpan

En éste destaca el Tecpatl o cuchillo sacrificial y unas hojas de una
planta convertidas en imágenes simbolicas del cuchillo de sacrificio Y
también destaca que la planta solo tiene las hojas de un lado del
tallo lo cual no ocurre en la realidad con  la verdolaga

Parece que en el jeroglífico de Iztmiquilpan no estamos frente a una
representación de la verdolaga en especifico pero si de los quelites
como planta silvestre comestible, entendiendo  los quelites  como
regalo divino dado a los hombres,  como planta  caida del cielo o
broitada de la tierra que por obra de dios surge en las milpas y
permitia a los indios tener que comer mientras la planta de maíz  se
desarrollaba desde sus estado de semilla a caña con mazorca .

Una dáiva de esa tamaño merece por lo menos un  sacrificio y eso se
enfatiza en el jeroglífico con la representación destacada del
tecpatl, el cuchillo de sacrificio.

En su diccionario Alexis Wimmer señala las siguientes palabras

“ Itzimiquiliztli: Muerte bajo el cuchillo de obsidiana. La muerte en
combate o sacrificio.   mā cahhuyacamati mi quitzopelīcamati en
itzimiquiliztli, su sabor es el sabor, saboreó la dulzura de la muerte
bajo el cuchillo de obsidiana. Sah6, 14
http://sites.estvideo.net/malinal/nahuatl.page.html

Itzimiquizxōchitl: La muerte de flores bajo el cuchillo de obsidiana.
  mā quinehnequi mā quehelehui en itzimiquizxōchitl, que él desea, él
está buscando la muerte en la flor de cuchillo de obsidiana. Sah6,
14.”

Y trae su propia traducción de Iztmiquilpan

“El glifo, Kingsborough Codex Mendoza Lam I 62 29 fig.8. presenta una
punta de obsidiana, itzmī-tl, empeñados en una planta, sin duda,
itzmīquil-itl, cuyas hojas tienen una forma similar al diseño de la
punta de obsidiana. Se basa en una franja de tierra.”

De las palabras que  trae el diccionario de Wimmer el significado de
la palabra Itzimiquiliztli se relaciona estrechamente con el cuchillo
de sacrificio que con particular énfasis  se destaca en el jeroglífico
de Iztmiquilpan

Basado en esto último como argumento final y con todo lo antes
expuesto y a riesgo de caer en el ridículo, cosa que me tiene sin
cuidado, propongo que

Iztmiquilpan  es  realmente LA TIERRA DE LOS SACRIFICADOS o mas
preciso LA TIERRA DE LOS QUE MORIAN BAJO EL CUCHILLO DE OBSIDIANA EN
AGRADECIMIENTO POR La DADIVA DE LOS DIOSES (QUELITES)

Apuntalo mi propuesta  con el hecho de que los otomies como adoradores
de Mixcoatl eran Mixcoas y son mixcoas las imágenes típicas con las
que se representa al sacrificado en los códices de origen colhua
mexica :  vease la Tira de la Peregrinación o el Telleriano.

Me despido solicitando

 “…que me toquen el "Quelite" / despues el "Niño Perdido"
y por ultimo el "Torito" pa' que vean como le brinco
Ay, ay, ay  /mamá por Dios.” ( El sinaloense )

Porque al fin y al cabo

“Que bonito es el quelite, bien haya quien lo formó
Que por sus orillas tiene, de quien acordarme yo….

(Mañana me voy mañana, mañana me voy  de aquí
El consuelo que me queda, que se han de acordar de mi) (El quelite )

Roberto Romero Gutierrez.




2011/11/8, David Wright <dcwright at prodigy.net.mx>:
> In the 1790 edition of Hernández, the chapter on the Itzmiquilitl is in book
> 11, chapter 48. I thought it was book 10 because there is a typographical
> error in the cornice of the preceding page (467), where it says NOVAE
> HISPAN. LIBER X. I am attaching a corrected version of the table of
> references to possible itztli/i:tztli + mi:tl words in this source that I
> sent to this list on November 6.
>
>
>
> ****************************************************************************
> ******************
>
>
>
> aitzmitl (1) - book 3, chapter 67 - vol. 1, p. 232 (1790) - vol. 2, p. 369
> (1942-1946)
>
>
>
> aitzmitl (2) - book 3, chapter 211 - vol. 1, p. 318 (1790) - vol. 2, p. 480
> (1942-1946)
>
>
>
> itzmiquilitl - book 11, chapter 48 - vol. 2, p. 468 (1790) - (not in
> 1942-1946 edition)
>
>
>
> tepetetzmitl - book 10, chapter 50 - vol. 2, p. 469 (1790) - (not in
> 1942-1946 edition)
>
>
>
> tepitontetzmitl - book 10, chapter 56 - vol. 2, p. 471 (1790) - (not in
> 1942-1946 edition)
>
>
>
> tetzmilpatli - book 10, chapter 54 - vol. 2, p. 470 (1790) - (not in
> 1942-1946 edition)
>
>
>
> tetzmitl (1) - book 1, chapter 161 - vol. 1, p. 89 (1790) - vol. 1, p. 140
> (1942-1946)
>
>
>
> tetzmitl (2) - book 10, chapter 52 - vol. 2, p. 470 (1790) - (not in
> 1942-1946 edition)
>
>
>
> tetzmitl (3) - book 10, chapter 53 - vol. 2, p. 470 (1790) - (not in
> 1942-1946 edition)
>
>
>
> tetzmitl (4) - book 19, chapter 306 - vol. 3, p. 306 (1790) - (not in
> 1942-1946 edition)
>
>
>
> tlaltetzmitl - book 10, chapter 55 - vol. 2, p. 471 (1790) - (not in
> 1942-1946 edition)
>
>
>
> Web sources
>
>
>
> Hernández, Francisco
>
>
>
> 2010    Historia de las plantas de Nueva España, digital facsimile of the
> 1942-1946 ed., 3 vols., Isaac Ochoterena, director, Mexico, Instituto de
> Botánica, Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México, 2010
>
> http://www.ibiologia.unam.mx/plantasnuevaespana
>
> access: Nov. 6, 2011.
>
>
>
> not dated    “Opera [De historia plantarum novae hispaniae]”, 3 vols.,
> facsímil digital de la ed. de 1790, en Google Books
>
> http://books.google.com/books?id=zX6pXnGTnowC&dq=related%3AHARVARD3204410726
> 3105&hl=es&pg=PP1#v=onepage&q&f=false
>
> http://books.google.com/books?id=ArT6VtFZX38C&dq=related%3AHARVARD3204410726
> 3105&hl=es&pg=PP5#v=onepage&q&f=false
>
> http://books.google.com/books?id=CGug2EKWcwoC&dq=related%3AHARVARD3204410726
> 3105&hl=es&pg=PP5#v=onepage&q&f=false
>
> access: Nov. 6, 2011.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>
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From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx  Wed Nov  9 15:52:15 2011
From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 09:52:15 -0600
Subject: Tunas and purslane
In-Reply-To: <CAOZR5ELGYW_UkRgL+XpgMhHWymRbsHKxvM55J1FKorcHWUcxCQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <WED.9.NOV.2011.095215.0600.DCWRIGHT@PRODIGY.NET.MX>

Estimado Roberto:

Gracias de nuevo por tus reflexiones tan ricas y abundantes.

Sólo preciso que no estoy de acuerdo con la etimología de "Itzmiquilpan" que apunta Peñafiel, porque tiene errores. I:tztli (o itztli) no es pedernal, sino obsidiana, y la sílaba "mi" no puede venir de mi:lli porque sería mi:l (mi:lli - li). Sí está presente el signo de la sementera en el signo pictórico correspondiente en el Códice de Mendoza (compárese con los elementos similares en Xochimilco, etcétera), pero el morfema mi:l(li)  no se encuentra en la palabra "Itzmiquilpan". Esto abre la posibilidad de que el grafema "sementera" tenga un valor silábico (mi:lli por mi:), a través de un juego de homofonía (o cuasihomofonía), cosa que es común en los códices del Centro de México en el siglo XVI, aunque el hecho de que las verdolagas reales crecen en las milpas me insta a considerar la hipótesis alternativa, que sea un signo semasiográfico con el valor "sementera"; incluso pueden caber ambas lecturas a la vez.

Es importante guardar la distinción semántica entre tecpatl (pedernal) e i:tztli  o itztli (obsidiana). Ambas palabras se usaban para referirse a diversos utensilios hechos de esos materiales, pero el significado primario es el de las materias primas. Así se registran en los principales diccionarios y queda claro en las fuentes en náhuatl (por ejemplo en el Códice florentino; puedes usar el Calepino de Pilar Máynez para localizar los pasajes correspondientes).

Lo de itzimiquiliztli, itzimiquizxochitl, etcétera, abre posibilidades interesantes de asociaciones poéticas, pero tanto las formas de estas palabras como sus significados son distintos a las de Itzmiquilpan. Aún así es una veta que hace tiempo he estado trabajando, por considerarla relevante. Sobre estas palabras en el manuscrito Cantares mexicanos, véanse los comentarios de Bierhorst y los de Damrosch:

BIERHORST, John
1985 A Nahuatl-English dictionary and concordance to the Cantares mexicanos, with an analytic transcription and grammatical notes, Stanford, Stanford University Press.

DAMROSCH, David
1991 “The aesthetics of conquest: Aztec poetry before and after Cortés”, en Representations (University of California Press), no. 33 (no. especial: The New World), pp. 101-120.

En fin, después de considerar todas las aportaciones de los listeros (por las cuales estoy muy agradecido), llego a la conclusión (tentativa, como son todas las conclusiones en la ciencia) de que había dos campos semánticos en la taxonomía botánica de los antiguos nahuas (entre muchas otras, por supuesto), una de las plantas i:tzmi:tl o itzmi:tl ("flecha de obsidiana"), que abarcaba varias especies que tenían ciertas características comunes, y otra de las plantas quilitl ("hierba comestible"). El i:tzmi:quilitl, asociado con la verdolaga (Portulaca oleracea), se encontraba en ambas categorías, como lo indica su etimología ("la hierba comestible de la flecha de obsidiana").

Las dudas más importantes que me quedan tienen que ver con la duración vocálica de los nombres modernos de las plantas que parecen ser de la categoría taxonómica de las plantas i:tzmi:tl (o itzmi:tl) en la región del río Balsas, donde ambas vocales se registran como cortas. Este rasgo fonético es importante porque tiene valor fonémico, es decir, incide en el significado de las palabras.

Saludos y un abrazo,

David

-----Mensaje original-----
De: roberto romero [mailto:cuecuex at gmail.com] 
Enviado el: miércoles, 09 de noviembre de 2011 00:36
Para: David Wright
CC: Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
Asunto: Re: [Nahuat-l] Tunas and purslane

Que me toquen el Quelite

Hola David y demas foristas

Siguiendo con el tema colocado en la mesa por David , este nos dio un
link para poder ver la imagen de Iztmiquilpan del códice mendocino y
leer la interpretación del jeroglífico que hizo Peñafiel y la
propuesta de este autor como traducción de Iztmiquilpan

[...]

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From idiez at me.com  Thu Nov 10 17:29:18 2011
From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 11:29:18 -0600
Subject: nitah
Message-ID: <THU.10.NOV.2011.112918.0600.IDIEZ@ME.COM>

Piyali notequixpoyohuan,
	Here’s a fun one. “nitah”, is an expression of surprise or astonishment used in Modern Huastecan Nahuatl. Sometimes used in the expression, “nitah totiotzin (noteotzin).”
1. “nitah” is actually a shortened form of the Mexican Spanish “nanita,” “mamita,” referring to the Virgin Mary
2. “nanita” comes from the Nahuatl “nantli” plus the Spanish diminutive “-ita”
3. But as we all know, Mexican Spanish has taken the Spanish diminutive and used it to substitute for the Nahuatl diminutive-honorific “-tzin.”
	How that for (de)colonial morphology? And see, I’m actually using some up-to-date theoretical terminology.
John
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From idiez at me.com  Fri Nov 11 15:39:12 2011
From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 09:39:12 -0600
Subject: Cross-variant communication
Message-ID: <FRI.11.NOV.2011.093912.0600.IDIEZ@ME.COM>

Piyali notequixpoyohuan,
	Next week I’ll go to Mexico City and meet with administrators of the Mexican National Institute of Indigenous Languages to finish up the details regarding the founding of the Zacatecas State Institute of Indigenous Languages. This new organization will soon begin working with INALI, as well as other national and international institutions on a number of far-reaching language and culture revitalization projects. One of the specific goals of IDIEZ and the new Zacatecas State Institute will be to create a space in Zacatecas where native-speakers of all variants of Nahuatl can meet, both in person and virtually, and work together on teaching and research, revitalization projects, and basically talk about all problems affecting indigenous people. The inaugural activity of this project will take advantage of the week-long series of focus-group sessions that will be held in Zacatecas during the second week of December. These sessions are sponsored by Stephanie Wood’s NEH/NSF project, “An Online Nahuatl Lexical Database: Bridging Past, Present, and Future Speakers,” and will have native speakers discuss key concepts and words from Older (Classical) Nahuatl texts. The discussions will be recorded, and linguistic material will be harvested and loaded onto the project’s database (http://whp.uoregon.edu/dictionaries/nahuatl/). Right now the participants are considering topics of their own interest that will be discussed in additional focus group sessions during the week. Only three rules/principles will govern the discussion process: 1. You must speak in Nahuatl; 2. You must respect others’ opinions; 3. There is no belief, topic or opinion that should prevent two people from sitting down and talking to each other. 
	If our goal of promoting cross-variant communication between Nahuas is to succeed, we will need to create a user’s manual; in other words, a practical little book (and companion website) for native speakers that will include a multi-variant list of frequently used words and phrases, with sound files for aid in pronunciation, as well as a comparative description of basic grammatical constructions for numerous variants. I would appreciate advise and tips regarding resources and current or previous projects of a similar nature.
John

John Sullivan, Ph.D.
Professor of Nahua language and culture
Universidad Autónoma de Zacatecas
Zacatecas Institute of Teaching and Research in Ethnology
Tacuba 152, int. 43
Centro Histórico
Zacatecas, Zac. 98000
Mexico
Work: +52 (492) 925-3415
Home: +52 (492) 768-6048
Mobile (Mexico): +52 1 (492) 103-0195
Mobile (US): (615) 649-2790
idiez at me.com
www.macehualli.org

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From mmccaffe at indiana.edu  Fri Nov 11 00:49:17 2011
From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 19:49:17 -0500
Subject: nitah
In-Reply-To: <5444D72B-8C5A-4693-AFF4-C2472598BE5E@me.com>
Message-ID: <THU.10.NOV.2011.194917.0500.MMCCAFFE@INDIANA.EDU>

Curious piece of language here, John.

Also, it's interesting how such a creation could confuse Nahuatl speakers.

In my case, I was looking for "notah" or "nitahtli," which I'm not sure 
is possible in modern dialects, not "nitah".

Michael


Quoting John Sullivan <idiez at me.com>:

> Piyali notequixpoyohuan,
> 	Here?s a fun one. ?nitah?, is an expression of surprise or
> astonishment used in Modern Huastecan Nahuatl. Sometimes used in the
> expression, ?nitah totiotzin (noteotzin).?
> 1. ?nitah? is actually a shortened form of the Mexican Spanish
> ?nanita,? ?mamita,? referring to the Virgin Mary
> 2. ?nanita? comes from the Nahuatl ?nantli? plus the Spanish
> diminutive ?-ita?
> 3. But as we all know, Mexican Spanish has taken the Spanish
> diminutive and used it to substitute for the Nahuatl
> diminutive-honorific ?-tzin.?
> 	How that for (de)colonial morphology? And see, I?m actually using
> some up-to-date theoretical terminology.
> John
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>



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From idiez at me.com  Fri Nov 11 16:28:10 2011
From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 10:28:10 -0600
Subject: nitah
In-Reply-To: <20111110194917.83d1j9v9uas88kko@webmail.iu.edu>
Message-ID: <FRI.11.NOV.2011.102810.0600.IDIEZ@ME.COM>

MIchael,
	One of the things I really like about combining the study of Classical and Modern is that in Classical we only see finished products of cases of vowel elision, haplology and other situations where words shrink. With Modern variants these processes are evolving right in front of your eyes (or next to your ears).
John

On Nov 10, 2011, at 6:49 PM, Michael McCafferty wrote:

> Curious piece of language here, John.
> 
> Also, it's interesting how such a creation could confuse Nahuatl speakers.
> 
> In my case, I was looking for "notah" or "nitahtli," which I'm not sure is possible in modern dialects, not "nitah".
> 
> Michael
> 
> 
> Quoting John Sullivan <idiez at me.com>:
> 
>> Piyali notequixpoyohuan,
>> 	Here?s a fun one. ?nitah?, is an expression of surprise or
>> astonishment used in Modern Huastecan Nahuatl. Sometimes used in the
>> expression, ?nitah totiotzin (noteotzin).?
>> 1. ?nitah? is actually a shortened form of the Mexican Spanish
>> ?nanita,? ?mamita,? referring to the Virgin Mary
>> 2. ?nanita? comes from the Nahuatl ?nantli? plus the Spanish
>> diminutive ?-ita?
>> 3. But as we all know, Mexican Spanish has taken the Spanish
>> diminutive and used it to substitute for the Nahuatl
>> diminutive-honorific ?-tzin.?
>> 	How that for (de)colonial morphology? And see, I?m actually using
>> some up-to-date theoretical terminology.
>> John
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nahuatl mailing list
>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl

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From idiez at me.com  Fri Nov 11 16:53:30 2011
From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 10:53:30 -0600
Subject: hua:c
Message-ID: <FRI.11.NOV.2011.105330.0600.IDIEZ@ME.COM>

Piyali notequixpoyohuan,
	There’s a morpheme that has been kicking my butt for a long time now, “hua:c”. In Modern Huastecan Nahuatl it only shows up in:
huaczan (huac+zan), “at that moment”
huacoc (huac+oc), “we“ll see if....”
huacca (huac+ya), “then” as in “Then she went to the store.”
	Anyway, today I received a mail from one of the participants in the focus group sessions, a woman from Guerrero. In her mail she used “kwac” for “when, then” which is obviously related to the Classical “ihqua:c”.
	For me, this is one of those “duhh” moments. And Joe, you might want to look at the possibility of removing “ihcua:c” from the basic morpheme list.
John

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From idiez at me.com  Fri Nov 11 17:00:37 2011
From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 11:00:37 -0600
Subject: Cross-variant communication
In-Reply-To: <1321030606.70308.YahooMailClassic@web86708.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.11.NOV.2011.110037.0600.IDIEZ@ME.COM>

Anthony,
	That is precisely one of the topics native speakers need to discuss, without interference from government officials. And the answer may not be either of the two you mention.
John

On Nov 11, 2011, at 10:56 AM, ANTHONY APPLEYARD wrote:

> Which dialect will be the standard dialect used for official records and suchlike, or will they be using literary Tenochtitlanian Nahuatl?
> 
> Has anyone made progress with a Nahuatl to or from English automatic translater?
> 
> Citlalyani.
> 
> --- On Fri, 11/11/11, John Sullivan <idiez at me.com> wrote:
> Piyali notequixpoyohuan,
>     Next week I’ll go to Mexico City and meet with administrators of the Mexican National Institute of Indigenous Languages to finish up the details regarding the founding of the Zacatecas State Institute of Indigenous Languages. 
> ...1. You must speak in Nahuatl;
> ...
> 

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From a.appleyard at btinternet.com  Fri Nov 11 16:56:46 2011
From: a.appleyard at btinternet.com (ANTHONY APPLEYARD)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 16:56:46 +0000
Subject: Cross-variant communication
In-Reply-To: <7D738A5F-C439-4A0F-B0A7-0D775B7BA51E@me.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.11.NOV.2011.165646.0000.A.APPLEYARD@BTINTERNET.COM>

Which dialect will be the standard dialect used for official records and suchlike, or will they be using literary Tenochtitlanian Nahuatl?

Has anyone made progress with a Nahuatl to or from English automatic translater?

Citlalyani.

--- On Fri, 11/11/11, John Sullivan <idiez at me.com> wrote:
Piyali notequixpoyohuan,
    Next week I’ll go to Mexico City and meet with administrators of the Mexican National Institute of Indigenous Languages to finish up the details regarding the founding of the Zacatecas State Institute of Indigenous Languages. 
...1. You must speak in Nahuatl;
...

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From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx  Fri Nov 11 17:47:35 2011
From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 11:47:35 -0600
Subject: hua:c
In-Reply-To: <0640D99A-493F-4415-B7C9-5C4092C73EEE@me.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.11.NOV.2011.114735.0600.DCWRIGHT@PRODIGY.NET.MX>

Are there cases of cua:c without ih- in colonial documents?

-----Mensaje original-----
De: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org [mailto:nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org]
En nombre de John Sullivan
Enviado el: viernes, 11 de noviembre de 2011 10:54
Para: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
Asunto: [Nahuat-l] hua:c

[...]

And Joe, you might want to look at the possibility of removing "ihcua:c"
from the basic morpheme list.
John

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From mmccaffe at indiana.edu  Fri Nov 11 17:47:41 2011
From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 12:47:41 -0500
Subject: hua:c
In-Reply-To: <0640D99A-493F-4415-B7C9-5C4092C73EEE@me.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.11.NOV.2011.124741.0500.MMCCAFFE@INDIANA.EDU>

Hold the horses!

My first observation would be that perhaps modern H.N. "huac-" and your 
friends "kwak" could be *reductions* of original ihcuac, not the 
original forms to which an "ih-" was detached. I'm not sure ihcuac can 
be reduced.

A reduction that somewhat resembles this in Miami-Illinois, an 
Algonquian language, involves an initial short vowel, like our /i-/ in 
ihcuac, preceding an preaspirated consonant, somewhat like our /-hkw-/ 
in ihcuac. In such a case, the initial vowel (and preaspiration 
indicated by /h/) drop off, e.g.,
ahpwaakana 'pipe' --> pwaakana.

Michael

Quoting John Sullivan <idiez at me.com>:

> Piyali notequixpoyohuan,
> 	There?s a morpheme that has been kicking my butt for a long time
> now, ?hua:c?. In Modern Huastecan Nahuatl it only shows up in:
> huaczan (huac+zan), ?at that moment?
> huacoc (huac+oc), ?we?ll see if....?
> huacca (huac+ya), ?then? as in ?Then she went to the store.?
> 	Anyway, today I received a mail from one of the participants in the
> focus group sessions, a woman from Guerrero. In her mail she used
> ?kwac? for ?when, then? which is obviously related to the Classical
> ?ihqua:c?.
> 	For me, this is one of those ?duhh? moments. And Joe, you might want
> to look at the possibility of removing ?ihcua:c? from the basic
> morpheme list.
> John
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>



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From mmccaffe at indiana.edu  Fri Nov 11 18:18:04 2011
From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 13:18:04 -0500
Subject: hua:c
In-Reply-To: <000601cca099$ff4d2cb0$fde78610$@net.mx>
Message-ID: <FRI.11.NOV.2011.131804.0500.MMCCAFFE@INDIANA.EDU>

My experience, David, has been no.

I first encoutered 'cuac' when Joe and I were looking at some modern 
stories. It looks "foreign" for "Classical".

Michael

Quoting David Wright <dcwright at prodigy.net.mx>:

> Are there cases of cua:c without ih- in colonial documents?
>
> -----Mensaje original-----
> De: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org [mailto:nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org]
> En nombre de John Sullivan
> Enviado el: viernes, 11 de noviembre de 2011 10:54
> Para: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> Asunto: [Nahuat-l] hua:c
>
> [...]
>
> And Joe, you might want to look at the possibility of removing "ihcua:c"
> from the basic morpheme list.
> John
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>



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Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From mmccaffe at indiana.edu  Fri Nov 11 18:19:45 2011
From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 13:19:45 -0500
Subject: my most recent message
Message-ID: <FRI.11.NOV.2011.131945.0500.MMCCAFFE@INDIANA.EDU>

Hold the horses!

My first observation would be that perhaps modern H.N. "huac-" and your 
friends "kwak"could be *reductions* of original ihcuac, not the 
original forms to which an "ih-" was detached.

I should have said "attached".




Very 'tetched,

Michael

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From cuecuex at gmail.com  Sat Nov 12 06:28:10 2011
From: cuecuex at gmail.com (roberto romero)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 00:28:10 -0600
Subject: nitah
In-Reply-To: <CAOZR5EJ6v5BJ1Ee_qFyFFZWVRAO+mUSVVqwqiTu0DV5Oo61YYQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SAT.12.NOV.2011.002810.0600.CUECUEX@GMAIL.COM>

Estimado Jhon y demás foristas

En mi primer mail te informaba que en el Sur de Queretaro, en realidad
es en casi todo Querétaro a las brujas  se les llama también nanitas y
se dice que estas toman forma de bolas de fuego que saltan de árbol en
árbol, de casa a casa o de cerro a cerro.

Mediante la necesaria exposición de algunos datos voy al final a
proponer una posible explicación de porque pienso se les llama nanitas
a las brujas.

En el libro “Danza tu palabra , La danza de los Concheros”, de la Dra
Yolotl González INAH Plaza y Valdes  se nos da información sobre  una
capitana de danza conchera de nombre Guadalupe Jiménez Zanabria quien
dentro de la tradición conchera fue llamada Nanita.

La Dra González nos informa  de Guadalupe Jiménez Sanabria , llamada Nanita

“aparece en algunas escenas del documental El es dios, aunque no como
protagonista. Estuvo muy relacionada con los otros tres capitanes [de
la danza, Faustino, Ortiz y Bernardina Green]

Guadalupe Jiménez Sanabria , llamada Nanita

“ nació el 19 de septiembre de 1904 en el D.F. De niña fue muy
enfermiza, sufría convulsiones, por lo que su padre la llevó a un
centro espiritualista trinitario mariano, en donde le indicaron que
para curarse y desarrollarse para recibir un espíritu y erigir su
oratorio y que ella también podía curar. Cuando lo hizo, vino un
espíritú de nombre Esteban Puebla que hablaba un idioma viejo, que
sólo entendía Don Toribio, que es el que lo traducía. Puebla fue quien
le enseño la danza, porque en 1922 cuando fueron a Chalma a levantar
el estandarte, ya lo sabía. ..Su primera danza fue en Chalma cuando
tenía 15 años y alrededor de 1930 le dieron el nombramiento de
capitana.  ..

Por un tiempo dejo de aparecer  Esteban Puebla, hasta 1987 cuando vino
otra vez a enseñar la danza y los trajes. Ese mismo año “revoleó”
[sic] un estandarte nuevo, porque el primero ya se había destruido. ..

Nanita tenía la capacidad de curar espiritualmente mediante
“canalizaciones” a través de una doctora. Incluso su padre puso un
pequeño hospital para los enfermos. Cuando murió Don Toribio, a los
126 años de edad, su espíritu actuaba de traductor del Señor Puebla,
hasta que lo enseño “allá” , que hablara en español”..

“Nanita tuvo una parte muy activa en muchos de los eventos cívicos
organizados por varias instancias de gobierno, a veces de conformidad
con otras mesas [la mesa es la organización conchera ]…Fue invitada
por el gobierno de Nayarit para oficiar en la primera feria de la
Mexicanidad en Mezcaltitlan , en donde se ha ubicado Aztlan, [ una
interpretación que sostiene Alfredo Chavero en el siglo XIX y mas
tarde W. Jiménez Moreno en el siglo XX] ..

“Nanita murió en 1993. La `ultima danza  de Nanita´ fue el 1 de
diciembre de 1993; una danza, la del sol Tonatiuh, hecha por una
anciana que apenas podía mantenerse en pie; suave, despacito, con
armonía, con amor, con humildad. Ella sabía que era su última danza´

Todos los datos que nos ofrece la Dra Yolotl Gonzáles los obtuvo de
una entrevista con el General Conchero  Jesús León. P179 y 181 del
libro citado.

Sobre la muy bonita e interesante información que nos ofrece la Dra
Gonzales , de mi parte yo sólo quisiera anotar para la gente que no lo
sabe  que es eso de un centro espiritualista trinitario mariano.

En México una de los hechos culturales mas interesantes que ocurren al
triunfo de la guerra de reforma y de la derrota de la intervención
francesa es la libertad de cultos que se implantan en México.

En ese ambiente de mayor tolerancia legal religiosa en el pueblo de
Contreras, caminito del Ajusco de las verdes magueyeras, situado en
las afueras de la ciudad de México un antiguo seminarista y entonces
trabajador de imprenta llamado Roque Rojas crea una religión donde el
pueblo elegido por dios es el pueblo Mexicano y será México  la tierra
donde surgirá la redención del mundo .

En esta religión de carácter milenarista  el mismo Rojas   se ubica
como un apóstol, el apóstol   Elias y asume el nombre de Padre Elias
que junto al Padre  Jehova , el Padre Jesús y el Padre Elias forman la
santísima trinidad de esta religión.

Esta iglesia  se distingue porque  a diferencia de otras religiones
las mujeres pueden alcanzar las mas altas jerarquías y así sucedió a
la muerte de Rojas. Fueron mujeres las que ocuparon  las mala altas
dignidades y las que fundaron iglesias surgidas desprendidas de la
iglesia original  del Padre Elias.

Los altares de las iglesias trinitarias marianas reproducen pirámides
truncas  pero además partidas por en medio,  pues el altar se forma a
partir de una estructrura  de siete escalones empotrados al muro como
si de el asomara la escalinata de una pirámide de siete cuerpos..

Una característica principal de esta religión es que sus preceptos le
fueron revelados a Roque Rojas por espíritus benefactores . Y los
espírítus van a formar parte fundamental de la religión

Estos espíritus  por via de gente en la cual encarnaban temporalmente,
llamados vasos,  curan de enfermedades de todo tipo a fieles y a gente
que se acerca a ellos.

Estos espíritus sanadores tienen la característica de ser
originalmente espíritus de los indios prehispánicos  agrupados en una
“atribu” [sic] y eran de la raza “aztecas”,  otros  otomies, el mismo
Rojas  dijo ser de raza otomi,  son pieles rojas, en general son
espíritus de indios antiguos cuivilizados  a los cuales despué se
agregaron espíritus sanadores de origen mestizo que alcanzando su
madurez formaron parte de los “macaceguas “, palabra que parece
claramente una corrupción de macehual.

Estos espíritus sanadores forman una “atribu” otra deformación de una
palabra en este caso Tribu.

Por medio de los trabajadores de los ferrocarriles esta iglesia
espiritualista del Padre Elias se extendió por todo el país, lo mismo
que las diversas iglesia que de ella surgieron. Sus templos están aun
en la ciudad de México y en otras ciudades del país.

La investigadora que mas ha estudiado el tema Isabel Lagarriga del
INAH,  señala que el culto de la Iglesia de Roque Rojas y sus
ramificaciones llego a tener decenas de miles de fieles.

Yo recuerdo que en la colonia de enfrente donde yo vivía en el DF
había un templo de una de estas iglesias. Otro templo muy famoso se
ubicaba en la Colonia Guerrero, un terreno que originalmente fue un
bario de Tlatelolco

Procesando todos los datos antes vertidos es muy probable que a la
venerable capitana de la danza conchera Doña Guaalupe se le haya
llamado Nanita precisamente por esa facultad de curar, la cual
ejercía por medio de la posesión de espíritus. Cualidad que fue
desarrollada en una de las iglesias surgidas del culto implantado por
Roque Rojas., la iglesia trinitaria mariana.

Las  curanderas y sanadoras de enfermedades de todo tipo han sido
calificadas como brujas en la confrontación cultural con otros
horizontes culturales, el católico o cristiano durante el feudalismo y
 el renacimiento y con de la misma forma durante el capitalismo.

Querétaro es considerado una de las mas probables cuna de la tradición
de las hermandades y cofradias de Danza conchera, otros posible
orígenes se situan  en Tlaxcala y en Tlatelolco.

Las danzas concheras son una tradición centenaria de origen indígena,
otomi en sus raices en el caso de Querétaro, que surgió durante el
propio proceso de conquista de Queretaro por los otomies , conquista
dada a la autoridad española a cambio de canonjias para los caciques
otomies.y para los nativos conquistadores del  señorío prehispánico de
Xilotepec., como  Conni , llamado después Hernando de Tapia, que todo
apunta a que no era de origen noble sino sólo un astuto comerciante
ambulante interregional.

La danza conchera en sus ritos secretos tiene mucho que ver con
antiguos ritos prehispánicos y en ellos la presencia de animas
conquistadoras o espíritus esta presente.

El culto de los espiritualistas de Roque Rojas pudo por ello ensamblar
muy bien con gente que profesaba o estaba unida a la tradición
conchera.

Querétaro es todavía, quién sabe en unos años mas por la fuerte
emigración,  uno de los mas fuertes reductos  del catolicismo
tradicional en México . Fue una entidad donde se desarrolló la guerra
cristera. Y se dio apoyo material a la misma.

En Querétaro la palabra nanitas  como una de las denominaciones usadas
para nombrar a las  brujas debe entonces haberse originado de la
presencia de curanderas y sanadoras entre los grupos indígenas y entre
las hermandades concheras que son aun muy fuertes en la propia ciudad
de Querétaro, curanderas y sanadoras  que recibían tal nombre  de
Nanitas como ocurrió con la celebre capitana conchera que era sanadora
usando para ello el recurso del trance al ser poseída por un espíritu
sanador.

La palabra Nanita , usado en un tema de tanta importancia como la
salud , debe haber trascendido el ámbito de las hermandades concheras
y haberse hecho del conocimiento y del uso por gente ajena a éstas
hermandades.

 Siendo originalmente la tradicion conchera una manifestacióncultural
de campesinos o de pobres de la ciudad, en esos mismo medios sociales
se debe haber difundido  el uso del término Nanita igual a curandera o
de bruja

Cuando ese término llego a oídos de personas de otras clases sociales
o con otro horizonte cultural , sobre todo con una visión dictada por
el catolicismo institucional, en la cual sanadora , chamana o
curandera es idéntico a bruja el termino Nanita paso a ser
denominación de bruja.

A ello se añade el hecho que desde la época prehispánica  la región
queretana  a estado unida culturalmente a regiones vecinas de
Michoacan y Guanajuato  asiento de los llamados Tarascos como nación
hegemónica  del conjunto muy diverso de naciones indias que
conformaban su imperio .

Es el caso que según el diccionario Aulex purepecha  español, la
palabra bruja se  traduce como nanaka sïkuami, siendo embrujar
sikuami.  Mientras que abuela es  nanita, nana k’eri.

 En el mundo occidental por lo menos particularmente desde el
surgimiento del capitalismo , las ancianas han sido elegidas como
expresión corporal del horror y del mal  son opr ello una imagen
arquetípica de  las brujas como lo apuntan los cuentos infantiles o
cuentos de hadas., así como los datos de estudios sobre el exterminio
de las llamadas brujas en los albores del capitalismo.

El mundo mestizo de estas regiones queretanas y Guanajuatense , el mal
lamado baío,  pudo retomar también la palabra tarasca Abuela: Nanita
como bruja pues tiene parecido desde el lenguaje indigena con Nanaka
la forma de nombrar a la bruja en dicho idioma

En lo personal además de reflexionar sobre el tema que usted propuso
me permite rectificar y conocer que la palabra nana y nanita son
palabras de origen indígena, nahuatl como usted señalo al inicio del
tema, pero tambiénexistentes en otros idiomas ,   independientemente
que la misma palabra por su sencillez y ductibilidad musical pueda
estar presente en el folklore negro de otros países.

Todos podemos aprehender algo todos los días si estamos dispuesto a hacerlo.

Y con esto concluyo

Roberto Romero Gutiérrez


El 11/11/11, roberto romero <cuecuex at gmail.com> escribió:
> Hola John y demás foristas
>
> No se si dios existe o el azar  nos atrapa en su tupido entramado,  el
> caso es que hoy  desayunando y cambiando histéricamente los canales
> del cable llegue a uno donde se presentaba un documental en el llamado
> Espacio Edusat.
>
> El documental en cuestión fue filmado o producido en el año de 1987.
> Como productor estaba el Instituto Nacional Indigenista INI ,  el
> documental fue filmado bajo la direccíón de Alfredo Portillo  y la
> región donde fue filmado fue la región de la montaña de Guerrero,
> concretamente la región de las comunidades de Acatlán y Zitlata,  esto
> es la región de la montaña de Guerrero,  como no vi el inicio del
> docuemental no puedo dar el título.
>
> El tema del documental era la fiesta de la Santa Cruz, las danzas de
> Tlacolol y las peleas de Tecuanis  o Tigres que en fiestas religiosas
> de la región ocurren.
>
> La región en la época prehispánica fue parte de la región Yopi, los
> adoradores de Xipe Totec o el tezcalipoca Rojo,  por lo cual dice
> Sahagún sus fanáticos adoradores se pintaban todo el tiempo el cuerpo
> de rojo.
>
> Se sabe por documentación colonial que por motu propio  llegaron a  la
> región colonos Xochimilcas y  otros colonos de habla nahua   que
> implantaron en la región los conquistadores Tenochcas.
>
> La región de la montaña de Guerrerero es una de las regiones mas
> pobres entre las muchas regiones miserables que salpican la geografía
> de México . Su nivel de vida es comparable al de la zona del  sub
> sahara africano,  mientras del otro lado Mexico es cuna del hombre mas
> rico del mundo cuya fortuna no se basa en un producto de consumo
> mundial sino básicamente en las ganancias de un monopolio nacional.
>
> Esta misreable región en lo económico es paradójicamente riquísima en
> su tradición cultural yen su historia
>
> La montaña de Guerrero desde los años 60´s del siglo XX  fue cuna de
> movimientos guerrilleros de ideología marxista , la primera encabezada
> por el profesor Genaro Vazquez. Y de entonces a la fecha esa tradición
> continua. Desde los años 80´s es  salen de esta zona peones agricolas
> que temporalmente son explotados vilmente en los modernos campos
> horticolas que producen los tomates y las calabacitas que se serviran
> en las mesas de USA. La montaña es también una zona de cultivo
> amapolero y de extracción de goma de opio, especialización agrícola
> que surgió cuando el territorio  de cultivo de amapola en México se
> extendió a otras regiones después de que el ejercito barrió con las
> comunidades campesinas amapoleras del “triangulo dorado” , que existe
> en el territorio montañosos donde se juntan , los estado de Chihuahua,
> Sinaloa y Durango.
>
> Pues bien llegando al tema que nos ocupa de la Nana y la tripa debo
> señalarte que en dicho documental esta grabado como en el
> levantamiento de la Santa Cruz de Mayo, ritual principal de petición
> de lluvias en esa zona , como lo han documentado diversos antropólogos
> .
>
> Resulta que uno de los rituales filmados y que estaba ya entonces  en
> vías de extinción de esta fiesta ritual era el colgar las tripas de un
> animal de los brazos de la cruz.
>
>  El Alzamiento de la cruz y la colocación de las tripas de animal en
> la misma  estaba acompañado de invocaciones y rezos a la cruz  como
> una deidad en si misma, a la virgen María pidiendo su intervención y a
> Dios.
>
> No especifico el narrador ni el investigador si las  tripas eran de
> vaca o de cerdo. Yo creo que eran de  marrano por la pobreza del
> terreno de la sierra , es mas fácil  crear un cuíno que una vaca.
>
> Las cruces  estaban adornada ya solo por un arco del material que aquí
> en el sur de Queretaro se le llama cucharilla. El narrador indigena en
> nahuatl y con subtitulos en castellano explicaba que antes cada cruz
> tenía su propio arco
>
> El objeto de colgar las tripas en los brazos de la cruz  era provocar
> o inducir un buen augurio que se  anunciaba si los zopilotes se
> acercaban y  comían las tripas  del animal colgadas de la cruz.
>
>  Si así lo hacían y se posaban después de ello en los brazos de la
> cruz, ese acto era señal de augurio de un buen temporal de lluvias que
> alimentara las parcelas de estos indígenas sembradas con la coa o palo
> plantador el mas útil y mas adecuado instrumento para sembrar en estos
> terrenos escarpados y con grandes declives mayores a 45ª
>
> El ritual se estaba exterminando porque en la región ya ni los
> zopilotes se paraba, acaso por la extrema miseria de la zona,  que
> hace que ya ni carroña exista pues esa también la devoran los humanos,
>  acaso por haberse exterminado los zopilotes.
>
> Debe recordarse que muchos de los dioses principales en la religión
> prehispánica estaban representados en aves de rapiña ( Águilas,
> halcones , buitres , zopilotes).
>
> Creo que por aquí en este ritual de lluvias esta la liga del culto
> ritual a las tripas y la palabra Nana .
>
> El dato anterior me recordó un oscuro pasaje del códice Azcatitla,
> respetando su ortografía original sin n al final, que trata de la
> emigración desde dicho lugar Azcatitla hasta fundar Tenochtitlan y aun
> hasta los primeros años de la conquista española.
>
> En la lámina V  de dicho códice Azcatitla, se pinta el lugar
> Chicomoztoc representado por un osos de seis patas, e inmediatamente
> después de éste sitio se pinta un río. En el río dos petates y dos
> cuerpos flota boca abajo.
>
>  Entre el primer petate  y el primer cuerpo una vara con una especie
> de anillos que  rodean la vara o báculo.
>
>  En el inicio del río un árbol  y al lado del árbol Huitzilopochtli
> con cuerpo de ave y rostro humano enciende el fuego ¿nuevo o que fuego
> ?
>
>  Abajo una cabeza decapitada de un personaje que porta como divisa un
> par de plumas de águila aztatelli que lo identifican como adorador de
> Mixcoatl, y debajo de el un arco y flecha que lo identifica como
> chichimeca.
>
>   En la otra ribera opuesta frente al árbol señalado se encuentra la
> pintura de un templo  y a su lado  un personaje masculino sentado  que
> viste algodón.
>
> Luego hacia abajo una mujer sentada y vestida de algodón junto a un
> pueblo, parece representar la gobernante o shamana de ese lugar y
> luego otro personaje masculino también sentado y vestido de algodón.
>
> Al lado de estos dos últimos personajes aparece el primer petate
> señalado y el primer cuerpo boca abajo y la especie de báculo con los
> anillos   junto a ellos una leyenda en Nahuatl  que en la traducción
> de R. Barlow dice:
>
>  “Allí se encantaron durante cuatro años. Allí salían a Cintocoyan .
> Las entrañas humanas en el petate les dejo su dios de ellos”.
>
> El pasaje explica que los anillos ensartados que flotan en una vara en
> el agua  son tripas en este caso de humano.
>
> El gran investigador Robert Barlow no dio una interpretación del
> pasaje Y quien esto escribe menos aún se atreve a darlo.
>
> Solo puedo anotar que el único elemento común  entre este pasaje de
> las tripas humanas que dejo su dios sobre un río del códice Azcatitla
> y de las tripas de animal que se ponen en la fiesta de la santa cruz
> del tres de mayo , lo único común  en ambos pasajes es el agua
> presente como rio o como petición  de que por piedad los dioses la
> envíen a los cultivos de los indios.
>
> Los tacos de Nana , la tripa del cerdo, además de una buena comida nos
> pueden mover la curiosidad y llevarnos a interesantes sorpresas.
>
> Roberto Romero Gutierrez
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 2011/11/11, John Sullivan <idiez at me.com>:
>> MIchael,
>> 	One of the things I really like about combining the study of Classical
>> and
>> Modern is that in Classical we only see finished products of cases of
>> vowel
>> elision, haplology and other situations where words shrink. With Modern
>> variants these processes are evolving right in front of your eyes (or
>> next
>> to your ears).
>> John
>>
>> On Nov 10, 2011, at 6:49 PM, Michael McCafferty wrote:
>>
>>> Curious piece of language here, John.
>>>
>>> Also, it's interesting how such a creation could confuse Nahuatl
>>> speakers.
>>>
>>> In my case, I was looking for "notah" or "nitahtli," which I'm not sure
>>> is
>>> possible in modern dialects, not "nitah".
>>>
>>> Michael
>>>
>>>
>>> Quoting John Sullivan <idiez at me.com>:
>>>
>>>> Piyali notequixpoyohuan,
>>>> 	Here?s a fun one. ?nitah?, is an expression of surprise or
>>>> astonishment used in Modern Huastecan Nahuatl. Sometimes used in the
>>>> expression, ?nitah totiotzin (noteotzin).?
>>>> 1. ?nitah? is actually a shortened form of the Mexican Spanish
>>>> ?nanita,? ?mamita,? referring to the Virgin Mary
>>>> 2. ?nanita? comes from the Nahuatl ?nantli? plus the Spanish
>>>> diminutive ?-ita?
>>>> 3. But as we all know, Mexican Spanish has taken the Spanish
>>>> diminutive and used it to substitute for the Nahuatl
>>>> diminutive-honorific ?-tzin.?
>>>> 	How that for (de)colonial morphology? And see, I?m actually using
>>>> some up-to-date theoretical terminology.
>>>> John
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Nahuatl mailing list
>>>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>>>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nahuatl mailing list
>>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nahuatl mailing list
>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>>
>
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From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx  Sun Nov 13 00:56:39 2011
From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 18:56:39 -0600
Subject: Tunas and purslane
Message-ID: <SAT.12.NOV.2011.185639.0600.DCWRIGHT@PRODIGY.NET.MX>

Listeros:

 

I’m sorry to have to bring this up again, but I hadn’t finished correcting
my table of plants in Hernández’s botanical treatise that appear to be
varieties of itzm:itl (or i:tzmi:tl) when I sent the second version, on
November 9 (several references to book 11 were incorrectly assigned to book
10). I’m sending it again, so the final version can be stored on this list’s
archives at the FAMSI and The Linguist List websites.

 

Saludos,

 

David

 

****************************************************************************
******************

 

aitzmitl (1) - book 3, chapter 67 - vol. 1, p. 232 (1790) - vol. 2, p. 369
(1942-1946)

 

aitzmitl (2) - book 3, chapter 211 - vol. 1, p. 318 (1790) - vol. 2, p. 480
(1942-1946)

 

itzmiquilitl - book 11, chapter 48 - vol. 2, p. 468 (1790) - (not in
1942-1946 edition)

 

tepetetzmitl - book 11, chapter 50 - vol. 2, p. 469 (1790) - (not in
1942-1946 edition)

 

tepitontetzmitl - book 11, chapter 56 - vol. 2, p. 471 (1790) - (not in
1942-1946 edition)

                             

tetzmilpatli - book 11, chapter 54 - vol. 2, p. 470 (1790) - (not in
1942-1946 edition)

 

tetzmitl (1) - book 1, chapter 161 - vol. 1, p. 89 (1790) - vol. 1, p. 140
(1942-1946)

 

tetzmitl (2) - book 11, chapter 52 - vol. 2, p. 470 (1790) - (not in
1942-1946 edition)

 

tetzmitl (3) - book 11, chapter 53 - vol. 2, p. 470 (1790) - (not in
1942-1946 edition)

 

tetzmitl (4) - book 19, chapter 306 - vol. 3, p. 306 (1790) - (not in
1942-1946 edition)

 

tlaltetzmitl - book 11, chapter 55 - vol. 2, p. 471 (1790) - (not in
1942-1946 edition)

 

Web sources

 

Hernández, Francisco

 

2010    Historia de las plantas de Nueva España, digital facsimile of the
1942-1946 ed., 3 vols., Isaac Ochoterena, director, Mexico, Instituto de
Botánica, Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México, 2010

http://www.ibiologia.unam.mx/plantasnuevaespana

access: Nov. 6, 2011.

 

not dated    “Opera [De historia plantarum novae hispaniae]”, 3 vols.,
facsímil digital de la ed. de 1790, en Google Books

http://books.google.com/books?id=zX6pXnGTnowC&dq=related%3AHARVARD3204410726
3105&hl=es&pg=PP1#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=ArT6VtFZX38C&dq=related%3AHARVARD3204410726
3105&hl=es&pg=PP5#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=CGug2EKWcwoC&dq=related%3AHARVARD3204410726
3105&hl=es&pg=PP5#v=onepage&q&f=false

access: Nov. 6, 2011.

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From bleeming at gmail.com  Fri Nov 18 13:25:23 2011
From: bleeming at gmail.com (Ben Leeming)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 08:25:23 -0500
Subject: linguistic hypertrophism
Message-ID: <FRI.18.NOV.2011.082523.0500.BLEEMING@GMAIL.COM>

Hola todos listeros!
I come to you seeking to tap into your collective knowledge of our beloved
colonial Nahuatl sources (crowd-sourcing?) in an effort to further develop
my database of words that fall into a category that Bierhorst terms
"linguistic hypertrophism" (1985:47).  You know the words I am talking
about, those wonderfully long strings of morphemes such as: *
tiquetzalzacuanxiuhquecholhuihuicomacan* (“let’s make
troupial-and-turquiose swan plumes twirl” [from *Cantares Mexicanos*, Bierhorst
1985:47]) and *onquetzalchalchiuhtlapitzalicaoacatiaque* (“They went
chirping like flutes of quetzal-green jade” [Burkhart 1992:96, quoting from
the *Psalmodia Christiana *of Sahagún]).  I have always loved these words
and have now decided to investigate them more methodically.  I was hoping
you might be able to steer me in the direction of additional examples of
this phenomenon, or towards specific sources that you suspect contain them.
 Additionally, if you know of any authors who have addressed this
phenomenon (either for Nahuatl or any other language) I would appreciate
that information, too.  My initial inquiries suggest that this is a topic
that has not yet been addressed.

Thank you in advance for your help!

Ben

-- 
Ben Leeming
PhD Student
Department of Anthropology
University at Albany, SUNY
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From micc2 at cox.net  Fri Nov 18 17:58:20 2011
From: micc2 at cox.net (Mario E. Aguilar)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 09:58:20 -0800
Subject: linguistic hypertrophism
In-Reply-To: <CAN_9ErUYyR0gtUok0TC1xOCFrCok1N=w6GMfG=Szw=Ekzq_kgA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.18.NOV.2011.095820.0800.MICC2@COX.NET>

  I too would like this info!!!
  I know wthat there has been controversy surounding Bierhort's 
translations but still Burkhart has many.

Thanks!

I live for reasoned, enlightened spirituality:

"Tlacecelilli", tranquilidad, paz


Mario E. Aguilar, PhD

www.mexicayotl.net
www.aguila-blanca.com


On 11/18/2011 5:25 AM, Ben Leeming wrote:
> Hola todos listeros!
> I come to you seeking to tap into your collective knowledge of our beloved
> colonial Nahuatl sources (crowd-sourcing?) in an effort to further develop
> my database of words that fall into a category that Bierhorst terms
> "linguistic hypertrophism" (1985:47).  You know the words I am talking
> about, those wonderfully long strings of morphemes such as: *
> tiquetzalzacuanxiuhquecholhuihuicomacan* (“let’s make
> troupial-and-turquiose swan plumes twirl” [from *Cantares Mexicanos*, Bierhorst
> 1985:47]) and *onquetzalchalchiuhtlapitzalicaoacatiaque* (“They went
> chirping like flutes of quetzal-green jade” [Burkhart 1992:96, quoting from
> the *Psalmodia Christiana *of Sahagún]).  I have always loved these words
> and have now decided to investigate them more methodically.  I was hoping
> you might be able to steer me in the direction of additional examples of
> this phenomenon, or towards specific sources that you suspect contain them.
>   Additionally, if you know of any authors who have addressed this
> phenomenon (either for Nahuatl or any other language) I would appreciate
> that information, too.  My initial inquiries suggest that this is a topic
> that has not yet been addressed.
>
> Thank you in advance for your help!
>
> Ben
>

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Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From campbel at indiana.edu  Fri Nov 18 18:27:29 2011
From: campbel at indiana.edu (Campbell, R. Joe)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 13:27:29 -0500
Subject: linguistic hypertrophism
In-Reply-To: <CAN_9ErUYyR0gtUok0TC1xOCFrCok1N=w6GMfG=Szw=Ekzq_kgA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.18.NOV.2011.132729.0500.CAMPBEL@INDIANA.EDU>

Hey Ben,

   I looked in the Florentine Codex and found some words that I used to 
consider long until I saw your examples.  A good number reach their 
length by containing multiple prefixes (e.g. mitz-on-mo, 
o-an-qui-hual-mo,
t(i)-amech-to-tla, etc.), benefactive -ili(a), and by adding -que or 
zque suffixes.

   You will notice that these words are *regularized* from the 
Florentine spelling (no j's, no o's for hu, etc.), but don't indicate 
glottal stops.
The list of words is followed by the sentence context that each word was
found in.

Joe

p.s. "in" is a rare sentence-final preposition sometimes found in English.
|8-)


cacahuatlaquetzalnamacaque**
cuitlachehuatepotzoicpalli**
intetlahuehuetzquiticahuan**
mitzommotlatlatlalililitiaque**
moteotetlatzontequililitzi**
oanquihualmocxinamiquilique**
oquimotlaocolnonochilitinen**
quimmotzonteconacocuiliznequi**
quimoncuexcochhuihuitecque**
quincuacuatemotzoltzitzque**
quincuatemotzoltzitzquitihui**
quinhualcuitlapanhuitiaque**
quinteocallayahualochtiaya**
tamechtotlalcahualtilizque**
techhualcaltechpachotiaque**
tetlanahualchichihuiliztica**
tictotlahuehuetzquitilican**
tihualtotzonteconacocuizque**
timitztohuellamachtilizque**
timocuetzpaltempictihuetziz**
timotetlatzetzelhuazhuilia**
tocommotlahueltetequililia**
tompilhuacateuhtlamatizque**
xiquintlacuauhtzitzquiltica**
xiuhchimaltonatimomanaquiuh**
xocommotlaocolnonochilican**
xocommotlaocolnonochilitinencan**
xocommotlaocolnonochilitinemi**
xocommotlaocolnonochilitocan**
xompilhuacateuhtlamattocan**

************


cacahuatlaquetzalnamacaque**

1. inic cempoalli onchicuacen capitulo: intechpa tlatoa in atolnamacaque,
     ihuan in *cacahuatlaquetzalnamacaque* ihuan in tequixquinamacaque.
      twenty-sixth chapter, which telleth of the atole sellers,
     and the sellers of prepared chocolate, and the sellers of
     saltpeter. (b.10 f.5 p.93).

cuitlachehuatepotzoicpalli**

2. oceloehuatepotzoicpalli, micehuatepotzoicpalli, 
*cuitlachehuatepotzoicpalli*,
     ocotochehuatepotzoicpalli, cuetlaxtepotzoicpalli, oceloehuaicpalli,
     micehuaicpalli, cuitlachehuaicpalli, cuetlaxicpalli, ocotochehuaicpalli,
     cuihuehuaicpalli,.
      the ocelot skin seat with a back rest; the mountain lion
     skin seat with a back rest; the wolf skin seat with a back
     rest; the mountain cat skin seat with a back rest; the cured
     leather seat with a back rest; the ocelot skin seat, the
     mountain lion skin seat, the wolf skin seat, the cured leather
     seat, the mountain cat skin seat, the coyote skin seat.
     (b.8 f.2 p.31).

intetlahuehuetzquiticahuan**

3. oncatca *intetlahuehuetzquiticahuan* in quimellelquixtiaya,
     in quicecemeltia:.
      there were their jesters who provided them solace and gave
     them pleasure. (b.8 f.2 p.30).

mitzommotlatlatlalililitiaque**

4. auh in ohuel mitzontlatetequilitiaque, in ohuel 
*mitzommotlatlatlalililitiaque*
     in titloque, in tinahuaque, in timoyocoya, in timoquequeloa:.
      and they ordered, they arranged things well for thee, thou
     who art lord of the near, of the nigh, thou who art moyocoya,
     thou who are moquequeloa. (b.6 f.2 p.22).

moteotetlatzontequililitzi**

5. iyoyahue, toteucyoe, diose, in icuac niquitztimotlalia, in
     motlatlaliltzin, in ohui *moteotetlatzontequililitzi*: ca
     cenca ninomauhtia, cenca ninizahuia:.
      alas, o lord god, when I consider thy commandments, the
     sternness of thy divine judgments, much am I afraid, much
     am I terrified. (b.1 f.105 p.76).

oanquihualmocxinamiquilique**

6. quimilhuia. toteucyohuane, tlamacazquee, nican anhualmohuicatiaque
     amocxitzin anquihualmanilique, ahzo tlacotl, zacatl cana
     *oanquihualmocxinamiquilique*, ahzo cana amocxitzin 
oanquihualmocuelhuique,
     oanquihualmotecuinilique;.
      they said to them: "o our lords, o priests, you have come
     to come here; you have used your feet; perhaps straws, grass
     you have somewhere touched with your feet; perhaps somewhere
     you have injured your feet; you have stumbled against something."
     (b.3 f.4 p.61).

oquimotlaocolnonochilitinen**

7. nelli mach in *oquimotlaocolnonochilitinen* toteucyo, tloque,
     nahuaque:.
      certainly he went crying out in sadness unto our lord,
     the lord of the near, of the nigh. (b.6 f.9 p.109).

quimmotzonteconacocuiliznequi**

8. ahzo *quimmotzonteconacocuiliznequi* in huehueixtitihui..
      perhaps he wisheth to lift the heads of those who will
     go increasing in dignity. (b.6 f.12 p.142).

quimoncuexcochhuihuitecque**

9. acaloco in *quimoncuexcochhuihuitecque*, huitzantica,.
      at the canal they struck each one on the back of the head
     with wooden staves. (b.12 f.4 p.58).

quincuacuatemotzoltzitzque**

10. auh in quixquichtin, in oaxihuaque, oquintetecpanque, 
quintzitzitzquitimani,
     incuexcochteuh quimaanilitimani, *quincuacuatemotzoltzitzquitimani*,
     cequintin immaxtlahuicoltitech quimaantimani..
      and as many as had been detained [for transgressions] they
     arranged, each one, in order; they grasped each one firmly;
     they took them each by the napes of their necks, they seized
     each one firmly by the head; some they grasped, each one,
     by the ends of their breechclouts. (b.2 f.4 p.85).

quincuatemotzoltzitzquitihui**

11. amo yehhuanti quimmictiaya in maleque, zan tequitl quimoncahuaya,
     zan tequitl temac quimoncahuaya, *quincuatemotzoltzitzquitihui*,
     incuatla quimantihui, imicpac quimantihui,.
      those who had captives did not slay them; they no more
     than left them, they no more than left them in the hands
     of [the priests], who went seizing them, pulling them by
     their heads; they went taking them by [the hair of] their
     heads; they went taking them by [the hair of] the tops of
     their heads. (b.2 f.1 p.46).

quinhualcuitlapanhuitiaque**

12. ye no ceppa centlamantli hualehuaque in cahuallome, 
*quinhualcuitlapanhuitiaque*..
      once again a group of horse[men] ran by; they went following
     after [the others]. (b.12 f.6 p.86).

quinteocallayahualochtiaya**

13. auh in oquizato painalton: niman ye ic temanalo, tetecpanalo:
     in ixpan huitzilobochtli, in oncan apetlac, nappa in 
*quinteocallayahualochtiaya*..
      and when painalton proceeded to emerge, thereupon [the
     bathed slaves] were placed in order, arranged in rows, before
     [the image of] uitzilopochtli; there at the pyramid landing
     they four times took them in procession around the [pyramid]
     temple. (b.9 f.5 p.65).

tamechtotlalcahualtilizque**

14. at amo ihuian ammoyetzticate, tamechtotlapololtilizque, 
*tamechtotlalcahualtilizque*,.
      perhaps ye are without tranquility; we shall trouble you,
     we shall embarrass you. (b.6 f.11 p.135).

techhualcaltechpachotiaque**

15. auh zan ihuian *techhualcaltechpachotiaque*, zan ihuian techololalique..
      and quite tranquilly [the foe] pressed us back as if with
     a wall; quite tranquilly they herded us. (b.12 f.7 p.105).

tetlanahualchichihuiliztica**

16. in za iztlacatiliztica, tetentlapiquiliztica, 
*tetlanahualchichihuiliztica*:
     in quintlatzontequiliaya nahualoztomeca intiachcahuan, inic
     quimmictiaya, in atle intlatlacol: zan nexicoliztica inic
     inca mozcaltiaya in cuachichicti, in otomi, in yaotachcahuan:.
      then the chieftains, in envy, falsely, by means of false
     testimony, with imagined deeds, condemned the disguised
     merchants, in order to slay the innocent, so that by means
     of [their goods] the shorn ones, the otomi warriors, the
     war leaders, might be sustained. separated in the document
     (b.9 f.3 p.32).

tictotlahuehuetzquitilican**

17. manozoc tictotlatolchialican, auh manozoc *tictotlahuehuetzquitilican*
     in toteucyo:.
      let us yet await the word of the lord. let us yet provide
     laughter for him. (b.6 f.5 p.61).

tihualtotzonteconacocuizque**

18. no oncan o, mopaltzinco *tihualtotzonteconacocuizque*, titechixpatlahuaz:.
      "also there, because of thee we will raise up our heads;
     thou wilt render us honor. (b.6 f.8 p.97).

timitztohuellamachtilizque**

19. ihuan titechmomaquilia in motenahuatiltzin, inic huel 
*timitztohuellamachtilizque*:.
      and thou offerest us thy commandments that we may obey
     thee. (b.1 f.4 p.66).

timocuetzpaltempictihuetziz**

20. tlalli tiquitototztihuetziz, *timocuetzpaltempictihuetziz*..
      "thou wilt stir up the dust; thou wilt suddenly be enclosed
     in the jaws of the lizard!" (b.4 f.8 p.83).

timotetlatzetzelhuazhuilia**

21. auh in oncan titlahuehuetzquitilo, in oncan timotepepenilia,
     *timotetlatzetzelhuazhuilia*, in oncan intlan tinemi, in
     intlan tipaqui in huel mocnihuan, in nelli motlaiximachhuan,.
      "and there thou art provided with laughter; there thou
     selectest one, thou screenest one out; there thou livest,
     thou rejoicest among thy real friends, thy true acquaintances."
     (b.6 f.4 p.44).

tocommotlahueltetequililia**

22. oc tehhuatzin tocommotlapialilia in toteucyo: oc tehhuatzin
     *tocommotlahueltetequililia* in petlapan, in icpalpan in
     imahuizyocan:.
      thou yet guardest it for our lord; thou yet placest the
     government, his place of honor, in good order. (b.6 f.15
     p.187).

tompilhuacateuhtlamatizque**

23. auh ano mopal *tompilhuacateuhtlamatizque* ano mopal 
tihualoquichtlamatizque..
      and will we not also through thee experience parenthood,
     experience manhood? (b.6 f.6 p.77).

xiquintlacuauhtzitzquiltica**

24. auh in ixquich in tlamacehualiztli, in yohualtamachihuiliztli
     in ixtozoliztli: xiquincuitlahuiltica *xiquintlacuauhtzitzquiltica*,.
      and [instruct them in] all the penances, the fixing of
     the divisions of the night, the vigils: take care of them;
     keep them firmly in your grasp. of the patient? more likely:
     urge them (b.9 f.2 p.15).

xiuhchimaltonatimomanaquiuh**

25. cuix oc ceppa xiuhchimaltonatimomanaz. anozo cuix oc ceppa
     *xiuhchimaltonatimomanaquiuh*..
      will perchance the turquoise shield appear shining? or:
     will perchance the turquoise shield come to appear shining?
     (b.1 f.105 p.81).

xocommotlaocolnonochilican**

26. auh in axcan manozo nelli *xocommotlaocolnonochilican* in
     toteucyo, in tloque, nahuaque:.
      "and now verily call out in contriteness to our lord, the
     lord of the near, of the nigh. (b.6 f.15 p.181).

xocommotlaocolnonochilitinencan**

27. ma amommotlacochcahuiliti, ma oc *xocommotlaocolnonochilitinencan*
     in tloque nahuaque, quen techmonequililia, quen quimitalhuia..
      do not abandon sorrow; yet live calling out for compassion
     to the lord of the near, of the nigh, as to what he requireth
     of you, what he sayeth." (b.3 f.4 p.53).

xocommotlaocolnonochilitinemi**

28. auh ma oc mochoquiz, ma oc motlaocol xoconixcahui, ma oc
     *xocommotlaocolnonochilitinemi* in toteucyo:.
      and give thyself exclusively to thy weeping, thy sorrowing;
     go calling to our lord in sadness. (b.6 f.3 p.32).

xocommotlaocolnonochilitocan**

29. ma oc nelle axcan *xocommotlaocolnonochilitocan* in teootl,
     in tlatoani, in tloque, nahuaque, in moyocoya, in moquequeloa:.
      verily, even now call out in sorrow to the god, the ruler,
     the lord of the near, of the nigh, the one who doth as he
     pleaseth, the one who mocketh. (b.6 f.15 p.186).

xompilhuacateuhtlamattocan**

30. ma oc *xompilhuacateuhtlamattocan*:.
      consider yourselves as parents. (b.6 f.15 p.186).




Quoting Ben Leeming <bleeming at gmail.com>:

> Hola todos listeros!
> I come to you seeking to tap into your collective knowledge of our beloved
> colonial Nahuatl sources (crowd-sourcing?) in an effort to further develop
> my database of words that fall into a category that Bierhorst terms
> "linguistic hypertrophism" (1985:47).  You know the words I am talking
> about, those wonderfully long strings of morphemes such as: *
> tiquetzalzacuanxiuhquecholhuihuicomacan* (?let?s make
> troupial-and-turquiose swan plumes twirl? [from *Cantares Mexicanos*,
> Bierhorst
> 1985:47]) and *onquetzalchalchiuhtlapitzalicaoacatiaque* (?They went
> chirping like flutes of quetzal-green jade? [Burkhart 1992:96, quoting from
> the *Psalmodia Christiana *of Sahagún]).  I have always loved these words
> and have now decided to investigate them more methodically.  I was hoping
> you might be able to steer me in the direction of additional examples of
> this phenomenon, or towards specific sources that you suspect contain them.
> Additionally, if you know of any authors who have addressed this
> phenomenon (either for Nahuatl or any other language) I would appreciate
> that information, too.  My initial inquiries suggest that this is a topic
> that has not yet been addressed.
>
> Thank you in advance for your help!
>
> Ben
>
> --
> Ben Leeming
> PhD Student
> Department of Anthropology
> University at Albany, SUNY
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>



_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From cienhuac at gmail.com  Sat Nov 19 23:33:32 2011
From: cienhuac at gmail.com (velez ramirez)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 17:33:32 -0600
Subject: Occequi tlahtolpol
Message-ID: <SAT.19.NOV.2011.173332.0600.CIENHUAC@GMAIL.COM>

tocnihuan
este es un extracto del libro de guillermo ortiz de montellano de 1990
editado por la UIA de mexico titulado NICAN MOPOHUA.

pag 66:
"Ahora mencionaremos un poema desconocido que el jesuita Antonio del
Rincón trae en su Arte Mexicana impresa en mexico en 1595......Dice
así:

 Tlauhquechollaztalehualtohtonnatoc
Ayauhcozamalotonnameyohtimani
Xiuhcoyoltzitzilicca in teocuitlahuehuetl
Xiuhtlapallahcuilolamoxtli manca
Nicchalchiuhcozcamecaquemmachtohtoma in nocuic"   12 silabas!


Sería bueno poder escuchar recitados estos poemas! a ver quien no se traba.


valerio velasco
_______________________________________________
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Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx  Sun Nov 20 22:20:08 2011
From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 16:20:08 -0600
Subject: Occequi tlahtolpol
In-Reply-To: <CAAA-RM1QHk4f8X5O_VBWiUC5dDnMg9i2T+ZC7HVEhmeFx7K5Ng@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SUN.20.NOV.2011.162008.0600.DCWRIGHT@PRODIGY.NET.MX>

El primer lugar, hasta ahora, lo tiene
onquetzalchalchiuhtlapitzalicaoacatiaque (de Leeming y Burkhart), con 32
fonemas (más un saltillo final, invisible, para un total de 33) y 16
sílabas.

Con 31 fonemas y 12 sílabas, Nicchalchiuhcozcamecaquemmachtohtoma está
empatada para el segundo lugar (si privilegiamos la cuenta de los fonemas),
con tiquetzalzacuanxiuhquecholhuihuicomacan (de Leeming y Bierhorst), que
tiene un peso de 31 fonemas y 13 sílabas.

Las palabras más pesadas de la lista que envió Joe son
xocommotlaocolnonochilitinencan (29 fonemas y 13 sílabas) y
xocommotlaocolnonochilitinemi (27 fonemas y 13 sílabas).

Podría haber más saltillos escondidos que aumentaría la cuenta de los
fonemas de alguna de estas palabrotas; no he hecho los análisis morfológicos
para averiguarlo.

-----Mensaje original-----
De: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org [mailto:nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org]
En nombre de velez ramirez
Enviado el: sábado, 19 de noviembre de 2011 17:34
Para: nahuatl; nahuatl-owner at lists.famsi.org
Asunto: [Nahuat-l] Occequi tlahtolpol

tocnihuan
este es un extracto del libro de guillermo ortiz de montellano de 1990
editado por la UIA de mexico titulado NICAN MOPOHUA.

pag 66:
"Ahora mencionaremos un poema desconocido que el jesuita Antonio del
Rincón trae en su Arte Mexicana impresa en mexico en 1595......Dice
así:

 Tlauhquechollaztalehualtohtonnatoc
Ayauhcozamalotonnameyohtimani
Xiuhcoyoltzitzilicca in teocuitlahuehuetl
Xiuhtlapallahcuilolamoxtli manca
Nicchalchiuhcozcamecaquemmachtohtoma in nocuic"   12 silabas!


Sería bueno poder escuchar recitados estos poemas! a ver quien no se traba.


valerio velasco
_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl

_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From bleeming at gmail.com  Sun Nov 20 22:26:00 2011
From: bleeming at gmail.com (Ben Leeming)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 17:26:00 -0500
Subject: Nahuatl Digest, Vol 237, Issue 4
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3.1321812002.9542.nahuatl@lists.famsi.org>
Message-ID: <SUN.20.NOV.2011.172600.0500.BLEEMING@GMAIL.COM>

¡Muchísimas gracias, Valerio!

Si alguien quiere ver los referencias que mencionó Valerio, encontré el
Nican Mopohua en Google Books aqui:
http://books.google.com/books?id=_nyaZYUGQ4sC&lpg=PA5&pg=PA66#v=onepage&q&f=false
.

Also, the Internet Archive (www.archive.org) has the 1885 edition of
Rincón's Arte here:
http://www.archive.org/details/artemexicana00rincrich&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8.

¡Qué maravilla el poema que anotó Rincón!  How I wish he had told us more
about its author!!

If anyone is interested in a trove of polynomials, see the extracts from
the "Sermones y santoral en mexicano" that Louise Burkhart references in
her monograph "Before Guadalupe." See pp. 50-51 for a representative
example.  So far the longest I have encountered is a whopping EIGHTEEN
syllables!  Has anyone seen longer?

Gracias, todos!

Ben


-- 
Ben Leeming
PhD Student
Department of Anthropology
University at Albany, SUNY
_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx  Mon Nov 21 15:32:09 2011
From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 09:32:09 -0600
Subject: Nahuatl Digest, Vol 237, Issue 4
In-Reply-To: <CAN_9ErWxK=P44W=WYJGg0ubrnaLBO-_+tJwCAHfOvGFCGLtVvw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <MON.21.NOV.2011.093209.0600.DCWRIGHT@PRODIGY.NET.MX>

Come on Ben, you know we're all dying to read the 18 syllable megaword. This
list would be a great place to register the longest known word in colonial
period Nahuatl texts, and to update the register if a record breaker shows
up.

-----Mensaje original-----
De: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org [mailto:nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org]
En nombre de Ben Leeming
Enviado el: domingo, 20 de noviembre de 2011 16:26
Para: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
Asunto: Re: [Nahuat-l] Nahuatl Digest, Vol 237, Issue 4

¡Muchísimas gracias, Valerio!

Si alguien quiere ver los referencias que mencionó Valerio, encontré el
Nican Mopohua en Google Books aqui:
http://books.google.com/books?id=_nyaZYUGQ4sC&lpg=PA5&pg=PA66#v=onepage&q&f=
false
.

Also, the Internet Archive (www.archive.org) has the 1885 edition of
Rincón's Arte here:
http://www.archive.org/details/artemexicana00rincrich&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8.

¡Qué maravilla el poema que anotó Rincón!  How I wish he had told us more
about its author!!

If anyone is interested in a trove of polynomials, see the extracts from
the "Sermones y santoral en mexicano" that Louise Burkhart references in
her monograph "Before Guadalupe." See pp. 50-51 for a representative
example.  So far the longest I have encountered is a whopping EIGHTEEN
syllables!  Has anyone seen longer?

Gracias, todos!

Ben


-- 
Ben Leeming
PhD Student
Department of Anthropology
University at Albany, SUNY
_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl

_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From schwallr at potsdam.edu  Mon Nov 21 16:42:40 2011
From: schwallr at potsdam.edu (John F. Schwaller)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 11:42:40 -0500
Subject: Coanacoch
Message-ID: <MON.21.NOV.2011.114240.0500.SCHWALLR@POTSDAM.EDU>

As part of an on-going bit of study on Texcoco, I would like to figure out the 
underlying meaning of Coanacoch, the last tlahtoani, first gobernador.

Any suggestions?



-- 
*****************************
John F. Schwaller
President
SUNY - Potsdam
44 Pierrepont Ave.
Potsdam, NY  13676
Tel. 315-267-2100
FAX 315-267-2496

_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From b.leeming at rivers.org  Mon Nov 21 17:08:04 2011
From: b.leeming at rivers.org (Leeming, Ben)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 12:08:04 -0500
Subject: Nahuatl Digest, Vol 237, Issue 4
In-Reply-To: <000301cca862$bba92e70$32fb8b50$@net.mx>
Message-ID: <MON.21.NOV.2011.120804.0500.B.LEEMING@RIVERS.ORG>

Ok, David, you're right!  Here it is:

mochipahualizichpochAçucenaxochicelticayotzin  ("your pure and maidenly lily-flower freshness" - Burkhart trans.,  2001:56)

It comes from the "santoral en mexicano" (BNM 1476) that Louise Burkhart published part of in her "Berfore Guadalupe" monograph, so I won't take credit for digging up this "record breaker."  I WOULD however love to hear if anyone has a contender!


Ben

--
Ben Leeming
PhD student
Department of Anthropology
University at Albany
bleeming at gmail.com




_______________________________________________
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Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From campbel at indiana.edu  Mon Nov 21 17:54:58 2011
From: campbel at indiana.edu (Campbell, R. Joe)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 12:54:58 -0500
Subject: Coanacoch
In-Reply-To: <4ECA7F80.7030904@potsdam.edu>
Message-ID: <MON.21.NOV.2011.125458.0500.CAMPBEL@INDIANA.EDU>

Hey Fritz,

   Here's what I have on "nacochtli" 'earplug'.  Sorry to be so brief, 
but I'm just now walking out the door.

|8-)
Joe


*nacochtli ***

  acanacochtli (acanacochtli).  reed ear plug. <a:catl-nacochtli>. b.10
    f.11 p.178|

  amanacocheh (amanacocheh).  buffle-head; one who has a paper ear plug.
    <a:matl-nacochtli-eh1>. b.11 f.4 p.35|

  apozonalnacochtli (apozonalnacochtli).  amber ear plug. <a:tl1-pozo:ni-
    caus09-l1-nacochtli>. b.8 f.3 p.47|

  chalchiuhcoanacoch , i- (i-chalchiuhcoanacoch).  his green stone
    serpent-shaped earplug. <poss-cha:lchihuitl-co:a:tl-nacochtli>. b.12
    f.1 p.12|

  chalchiuhcoanacochtli (chalchiuhcoanacochtli).  green stone serpent
    earplug. <cha:lchihuitl-co:a:tl-nacochtli>. b.12 f.1 p.15|

  coanacoch , i- (i-coanacoch).  his serpent ear plug. <poss-co:a:tl-
    nacochtli>. b.12 f.3 p.52|

  coanacochtli (coanacochtli).  !name=coanacochtli. <!name=coanacochtli
    co:a:tl-nacochtli>. b.8 f.1 p.10|

  coanacochtzin (coanacochtzin).  !name=coanacochtzin.
    <!name=coanacochtzin co:a:tl-nacochtli-tzin +chtz>chtz>. b.8 f.1
    p.10|

  coanacochxihuitl , i- (i-coanacochxihuitl).  his serpent ear plug
    turquoise. <poss-co:a:tl-nacochtli-xihuitl1>. b.12 f.3 p.52|

  coanacotzin (coanacotzin).  !name=coanacotzin. <!name=coanacotzin
    co:a:tl-nacochtli-tzin>. b.12 f.8 p.123|

  cocoyolnacoch , in- (in-cocoyolnacoch).  their bell-shaped ear plug.
    <poss-dupl-coyolli-nacochtli>. b.2 f.5 p.99|

  cocoyolnacocheh (cocoyolnacocheh).  one who has bell-shaped ear plugs.
    <dupl-coyolli-nacochtli-eh1>. b.2 f.5 p.99|

  coyolnacoch , i- (i$coyolnacoch).  his turquoise ear plug. <poss-
    coyolli-nacochtli>. b.2 f.3 p.69|

  cuauhnacochtli (cuauhnacochtli).  wooden ear plug. <cuahuitl-
    nacochtli>. b.9 f.5 p.60|

  cuetlaxnacochihqueh (cuetlaxnacochihqueh).  those who have leather ear
    plugs. <cuetlaxtli-nacochtli-eh1-plur14 +ev.verb.21>. b.8 f.5 p.77|

  cuetlaxnacochtli (cuetlaxnacochtli).  leather ear plug. <cuetlaxtli-
    nacochtli>. b.8 f.5 p.74|

  huacuauhnacochtli (huacuauhnacochtli).  . <hua:qui--nacochtli>. b.10
    f.11 p.178|

  iitznacocheh (iitznacocheh).  one who has obsidian ear plugs. <dupl-
    i:tztli-nacochtli-eh1>. b.1 f.1 p.11|

  itznacochtli (itznacochtli).  obsidian ear plug. <i:tztli-nacochtli>.
    b.8 f.3 p.47|

  mayanacochtli (mayanacochtli).  ear plug made of black beetles.
    <mayatl-nacochtli>. b.10 f.11 p.178|

  nacoch , i- (i-nacoch).  his ear plug. <poss-nacochtli>. b.9 f.5
    p.60|

  nacoch , in- (in-nacoch).  their ear plug. <poss-nacochtli>. b.10 f.11
    p.177|

  nacoch , in- (in$nacoch).  their ear plug. <poss-nacochtli>. b.10 f.11
    p.178|

  nacoch , in- (in-nacoch).  their ear-ring. <poss-nacochtli>. b.11 f.22
    p.227|

  nacocheh (nacocheh).  ; one who has ear plugs. <nacochtli-eh1>. b.11
    f.26 p.275|

  nacochtia , mo- (mo-nacochtia).  he puts on ear plugs; they put on ear
    plugs. <p54-nacochtli-v04-caus08>. b.3 f.4 p.56|

  nacochtiaya , mo- (mo-nacochtiaya).  they wore ear plugs, they put on
    ear plugs. <p54-nacochtli-v04-caus08-ya3>. b.10 f.11 p.178|

  nacochtli (nacochtli).  orejeras; ear pendant; ear plug. <nacochtli>.
    71m1-162|

  nanacocheh (nanacocheh).  one who has ear plugs. <dupl-nacochtli-eh1>.
    b.1 f.1 p.11|

  quetzalcoyolnacochtli (quetzalcoyolnacochtli).  green ear pendant with
    bells; green shell-shaped ear pendant. <quetzalli-coyolli-
    nacochtli>. b.9 f.1 p.4|

  tecciznacochtli (tecciznacochtli).  seashell ear plug. <te:uctli-
    ciztli-nacochtli>. b.10 f.11 p.177|

  tecuitlacoyolnacoch , i- (i$tecuitlacoyolnacoch).  his golden shell
    earplugs. <poss-teo:tl?-cuitlatl-coyolli-nacochtli>. b.12 f.1 p.12|

  tehuilonacochtli (tehuilonacochtli).  crystal ear plug; rock crystal
    ear plug. <tehui:lo:tl-nacochtli>. b.9 f.6 p.80|

  teocuitlanacoch , i- (i-teocuitlanacoch).  her golden ear plug. <poss-
    teo:tl-cuitlatl-nacochtli>. b.2 f.4 p.91|

  teocuitlanacoch , i- (i$teocuitlanacoch).  his golden ear plug. <poss-
    teo:tl-cuitlatl-nacochtli>. b.9 f.5 p.69|

  teocuitlanacoch , i- (i-teocuitlanacoch).  her golden ear plug. <poss-
    teo:tl-cuitlatl-nacochtli>. b.9 f.6 p.79|

  teocuitlanacocheh (teocuitlanacocheh).  one who had golden ear plugs;
    having golden ear plugs. <teo:tl-cuitlatl-nacochtli-eh1>. b.1 f.1
    p.11|

  teocuitlanacochtli (teocuitlanacochtli).  golden ear plug; gold ear
    plug; gold earring; gold ear pendant. <teo:tl-cuitlatl-nacochtli>.
    b.2 f.4 p.91|

  tepoznacochtli (tepoznacochtli).  copper ear plug. <tepoztli-
    nacochtli>. b.9 f.2 p.18|

  teteocuitlanacoch , in- (in-teteocuitlanacoch).  their golden ear
    pendant. <poss-dupl-teo:tl-cuitlatl-nacochtli>. b.9 f.7 p.85|

  teteocuitlanacoch , i- (i-teteocuitlanacoch).  his golden ear plugs.
    <poss-dupl-teo:tl-cuitlatl-nacochtli>. b.12 f.6 p.92|

  tezcanacochtli (tezcanacochtli).  mirror-stone ear plug. <te:zcatl-
    nacochtli>. b.10 f.11 p.177|

  titizanacoch , i- (i$titizanacoch).  his chalk-colored ear pendant.
    <poss-dupl-ti:zatl-nacochtli>. b.9 f.6 p.84|

  tizanacoch , i- (i-tizanacoch).  his chalky ear plug. <poss-ti:zatl-
    nacochtli>. b.1 f.2 p.34|

  tolnacochtli (tolnacochtli).  a kind of plant. <to:lin-nacochtli
    +need:plant>. b.11 f.19 p.195|

  tzicoliuhcanacocheh (tzicoliuhcanacocheh).  one who has a curved ear
    pendant. <tzictli-v03b-caus06-l1-v03b-prt1-ca:5-nacochtli-eh1>. b.1
    f.1 p.9|

  xiuhcohuanacocheh (xiuhcohuanacocheh).  one who has a fire serpent
    disguise. <xihuitl1-co:a:tl-nacochtli-eh1>. b.1 f.2 p.30|

  xiuhnacoch , i[n]- (i[n]$xiuhnacoch).  their turquoise ear plug. <poss-
    xihuitl1-nacochtli>. b.8 f.3 p.43|

  xiuhnacocheh (xiuhnacocheh).  one who has turquoise ear plugs.
    <xihuitl1-nacochtli-eh1>. b.1 f.1 p.22|

  xiuhnacochtli (xiuhnacochtli).  ; turquoise ear plug; turquoise
    earplug. <xihuitl1-nacochtli>. b.2 f.10 p.164|

  xiuhtotonacocheh (xiuhtotonacocheh).  ear pendant made of lovely
    cotinga feathers. <xihuitl1-to:to:tl-nacochtli-eh1>. b.1 f.1 p.2|

  xixiuhnacochtia , mo- (mo-xixiuhnacochtia).  he puts on turquoise ear
    plugs. <p54-dupl-xihuitl1-nacochtli-v04-caus08>. b.3 f.4 p.56|

  zoquinacochtli (zoquinacochtli).  pottery ear plug. <zoquitl-
    nacochtli>. b.10 f.11 p.178|

morpheme count 103




Quoting "John F. Schwaller" <schwallr at potsdam.edu>:

>
> As part of an on-going bit of study on Texcoco, I would like to
> figure out the underlying meaning of Coanacoch, the last tlahtoani,
> first gobernador.
>
> Any suggestions?
>
>
>
> --
> *****************************
> John F. Schwaller
> President
> SUNY - Potsdam
> 44 Pierrepont Ave.
> Potsdam, NY  13676
> Tel. 315-267-2100
> FAX 315-267-2496
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>



_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From ixtlil at earthlink.net  Mon Nov 21 19:49:37 2011
From: ixtlil at earthlink.net (ixtlil at earthlink.net)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 13:49:37 -0600
Subject: Coanacoch
In-Reply-To: <20111121125458.gmsi6ekk5cgg448o@webmail.iu.edu>
Message-ID: <MON.21.NOV.2011.134937.0600.>

This reading of earplug is in keeping with J.M.A. Aubin's reading from 1884 
(Memoire sur la peinture...).

See also Primeros Memoriales, 52v, where "Coanacochtli" has his ear 
obscured, but his glyph is a complete, live serpent threaded once through a 
human ear.  I don't have access to Sahagun's Florentine Codex at the moment, 
but he should appear in a position analogous to the Primeros Memoriales, 
although portrayed even more through a Tenochcan filter than even the 
Primeros Memoriales (from Tepeapulco).

On Mapa Tlotzin, his glyph appears to be a serpent emerging from a disk. 
Because this is a small detail, neither the illustrations in the re-edition 
of Aubin (UNAM 2002) nor Douglas (2010) allow for close inspection of his 
glyph in that document.  The disk from which the serpent is emerging is 
surrounded by a small red circle that may have a device to the left to 
indicate it is overall an earplug.  In my 19th century lithograph (which 
appears to come from Aubin's work), the same detail is seen and perhaps 
elaborated a bit--and elaborated correctly probably--in the entry for this 
person ("Coanacoc") in Garcia Granados (1952).

So, the two glyphs that come quickly to mind and are at hand match up 
reasonably well, which is not always the case with Nahua writing which can 
be very creative in glyph composition--as is shown by the Primeros 
Memoriales glyph being a live snake in a ear rather than a static depiction 
of  a serpent earplug.

Jerry Offner



-----Original Message----- 
From: Campbell, R. Joe
Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 11:54 AM
To: John F. Schwaller
Cc: Nahuat-l ((messages))
Subject: Re: [Nahuat-l] Coanacoch

Hey Fritz,

   Here's what I have on "nacochtli" 'earplug'.  Sorry to be so brief,
but I'm just now walking out the door.

|8-)
Joe


*nacochtli ***

  acanacochtli (acanacochtli).  reed ear plug. <a:catl-nacochtli>. b.10
    f.11 p.178|

  amanacocheh (amanacocheh).  buffle-head; one who has a paper ear plug.
    <a:matl-nacochtli-eh1>. b.11 f.4 p.35|

  apozonalnacochtli (apozonalnacochtli).  amber ear plug. <a:tl1-pozo:ni-
    caus09-l1-nacochtli>. b.8 f.3 p.47|

  chalchiuhcoanacoch , i- (i-chalchiuhcoanacoch).  his green stone
    serpent-shaped earplug. <poss-cha:lchihuitl-co:a:tl-nacochtli>. b.12
    f.1 p.12|

  chalchiuhcoanacochtli (chalchiuhcoanacochtli).  green stone serpent
    earplug. <cha:lchihuitl-co:a:tl-nacochtli>. b.12 f.1 p.15|

  coanacoch , i- (i-coanacoch).  his serpent ear plug. <poss-co:a:tl-
    nacochtli>. b.12 f.3 p.52|

  coanacochtli (coanacochtli).  !name=coanacochtli. <!name=coanacochtli
    co:a:tl-nacochtli>. b.8 f.1 p.10|

  coanacochtzin (coanacochtzin).  !name=coanacochtzin.
    <!name=coanacochtzin co:a:tl-nacochtli-tzin +chtz>chtz>. b.8 f.1
    p.10|

  coanacochxihuitl , i- (i-coanacochxihuitl).  his serpent ear plug
    turquoise. <poss-co:a:tl-nacochtli-xihuitl1>. b.12 f.3 p.52|

  coanacotzin (coanacotzin).  !name=coanacotzin. <!name=coanacotzin
    co:a:tl-nacochtli-tzin>. b.12 f.8 p.123|

  cocoyolnacoch , in- (in-cocoyolnacoch).  their bell-shaped ear plug.
    <poss-dupl-coyolli-nacochtli>. b.2 f.5 p.99|

  cocoyolnacocheh (cocoyolnacocheh).  one who has bell-shaped ear plugs.
    <dupl-coyolli-nacochtli-eh1>. b.2 f.5 p.99|

  coyolnacoch , i- (i$coyolnacoch).  his turquoise ear plug. <poss-
    coyolli-nacochtli>. b.2 f.3 p.69|

  cuauhnacochtli (cuauhnacochtli).  wooden ear plug. <cuahuitl-
    nacochtli>. b.9 f.5 p.60|

  cuetlaxnacochihqueh (cuetlaxnacochihqueh).  those who have leather ear
    plugs. <cuetlaxtli-nacochtli-eh1-plur14 +ev.verb.21>. b.8 f.5 p.77|

  cuetlaxnacochtli (cuetlaxnacochtli).  leather ear plug. <cuetlaxtli-
    nacochtli>. b.8 f.5 p.74|

  huacuauhnacochtli (huacuauhnacochtli).  . <hua:qui--nacochtli>. b.10
    f.11 p.178|

  iitznacocheh (iitznacocheh).  one who has obsidian ear plugs. <dupl-
    i:tztli-nacochtli-eh1>. b.1 f.1 p.11|

  itznacochtli (itznacochtli).  obsidian ear plug. <i:tztli-nacochtli>.
    b.8 f.3 p.47|

  mayanacochtli (mayanacochtli).  ear plug made of black beetles.
    <mayatl-nacochtli>. b.10 f.11 p.178|

  nacoch , i- (i-nacoch).  his ear plug. <poss-nacochtli>. b.9 f.5
    p.60|

  nacoch , in- (in-nacoch).  their ear plug. <poss-nacochtli>. b.10 f.11
    p.177|

  nacoch , in- (in$nacoch).  their ear plug. <poss-nacochtli>. b.10 f.11
    p.178|

  nacoch , in- (in-nacoch).  their ear-ring. <poss-nacochtli>. b.11 f.22
    p.227|

  nacocheh (nacocheh).  ; one who has ear plugs. <nacochtli-eh1>. b.11
    f.26 p.275|

  nacochtia , mo- (mo-nacochtia).  he puts on ear plugs; they put on ear
    plugs. <p54-nacochtli-v04-caus08>. b.3 f.4 p.56|

  nacochtiaya , mo- (mo-nacochtiaya).  they wore ear plugs, they put on
    ear plugs. <p54-nacochtli-v04-caus08-ya3>. b.10 f.11 p.178|

  nacochtli (nacochtli).  orejeras; ear pendant; ear plug. <nacochtli>.
    71m1-162|

  nanacocheh (nanacocheh).  one who has ear plugs. <dupl-nacochtli-eh1>.
    b.1 f.1 p.11|

  quetzalcoyolnacochtli (quetzalcoyolnacochtli).  green ear pendant with
    bells; green shell-shaped ear pendant. <quetzalli-coyolli-
    nacochtli>. b.9 f.1 p.4|

  tecciznacochtli (tecciznacochtli).  seashell ear plug. <te:uctli-
    ciztli-nacochtli>. b.10 f.11 p.177|

  tecuitlacoyolnacoch , i- (i$tecuitlacoyolnacoch).  his golden shell
    earplugs. <poss-teo:tl?-cuitlatl-coyolli-nacochtli>. b.12 f.1 p.12|

  tehuilonacochtli (tehuilonacochtli).  crystal ear plug; rock crystal
    ear plug. <tehui:lo:tl-nacochtli>. b.9 f.6 p.80|

  teocuitlanacoch , i- (i-teocuitlanacoch).  her golden ear plug. <poss-
    teo:tl-cuitlatl-nacochtli>. b.2 f.4 p.91|

  teocuitlanacoch , i- (i$teocuitlanacoch).  his golden ear plug. <poss-
    teo:tl-cuitlatl-nacochtli>. b.9 f.5 p.69|

  teocuitlanacoch , i- (i-teocuitlanacoch).  her golden ear plug. <poss-
    teo:tl-cuitlatl-nacochtli>. b.9 f.6 p.79|

  teocuitlanacocheh (teocuitlanacocheh).  one who had golden ear plugs;
    having golden ear plugs. <teo:tl-cuitlatl-nacochtli-eh1>. b.1 f.1
    p.11|

  teocuitlanacochtli (teocuitlanacochtli).  golden ear plug; gold ear
    plug; gold earring; gold ear pendant. <teo:tl-cuitlatl-nacochtli>.
    b.2 f.4 p.91|

  tepoznacochtli (tepoznacochtli).  copper ear plug. <tepoztli-
    nacochtli>. b.9 f.2 p.18|

  teteocuitlanacoch , in- (in-teteocuitlanacoch).  their golden ear
    pendant. <poss-dupl-teo:tl-cuitlatl-nacochtli>. b.9 f.7 p.85|

  teteocuitlanacoch , i- (i-teteocuitlanacoch).  his golden ear plugs.
    <poss-dupl-teo:tl-cuitlatl-nacochtli>. b.12 f.6 p.92|

  tezcanacochtli (tezcanacochtli).  mirror-stone ear plug. <te:zcatl-
    nacochtli>. b.10 f.11 p.177|

  titizanacoch , i- (i$titizanacoch).  his chalk-colored ear pendant.
    <poss-dupl-ti:zatl-nacochtli>. b.9 f.6 p.84|

  tizanacoch , i- (i-tizanacoch).  his chalky ear plug. <poss-ti:zatl-
    nacochtli>. b.1 f.2 p.34|

  tolnacochtli (tolnacochtli).  a kind of plant. <to:lin-nacochtli
    +need:plant>. b.11 f.19 p.195|

  tzicoliuhcanacocheh (tzicoliuhcanacocheh).  one who has a curved ear
    pendant. <tzictli-v03b-caus06-l1-v03b-prt1-ca:5-nacochtli-eh1>. b.1
    f.1 p.9|

  xiuhcohuanacocheh (xiuhcohuanacocheh).  one who has a fire serpent
    disguise. <xihuitl1-co:a:tl-nacochtli-eh1>. b.1 f.2 p.30|

  xiuhnacoch , i[n]- (i[n]$xiuhnacoch).  their turquoise ear plug. <poss-
    xihuitl1-nacochtli>. b.8 f.3 p.43|

  xiuhnacocheh (xiuhnacocheh).  one who has turquoise ear plugs.
    <xihuitl1-nacochtli-eh1>. b.1 f.1 p.22|

  xiuhnacochtli (xiuhnacochtli).  ; turquoise ear plug; turquoise
    earplug. <xihuitl1-nacochtli>. b.2 f.10 p.164|

  xiuhtotonacocheh (xiuhtotonacocheh).  ear pendant made of lovely
    cotinga feathers. <xihuitl1-to:to:tl-nacochtli-eh1>. b.1 f.1 p.2|

  xixiuhnacochtia , mo- (mo-xixiuhnacochtia).  he puts on turquoise ear
    plugs. <p54-dupl-xihuitl1-nacochtli-v04-caus08>. b.3 f.4 p.56|

  zoquinacochtli (zoquinacochtli).  pottery ear plug. <zoquitl-
    nacochtli>. b.10 f.11 p.178|

morpheme count 103




Quoting "John F. Schwaller" <schwallr at potsdam.edu>:

>
> As part of an on-going bit of study on Texcoco, I would like to
> figure out the underlying meaning of Coanacoch, the last tlahtoani,
> first gobernador.
>
> Any suggestions?
>
>
>
> --
> *****************************
> John F. Schwaller
> President
> SUNY - Potsdam
> 44 Pierrepont Ave.
> Potsdam, NY  13676
> Tel. 315-267-2100
> FAX 315-267-2496
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>



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From idiez at me.com  Tue Nov 22 15:37:21 2011
From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 09:37:21 -0600
Subject: tezcatlipoca
Message-ID: <TUE.22.NOV.2011.093721.0600.IDIEZ@ME.COM>

Listeros,
	How about some morphology for tezcatlipoca?
John
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From mmccaffe at indiana.edu  Tue Nov 22 15:40:39 2011
From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 10:40:39 -0500
Subject: tezcatlipoca
In-Reply-To: <D0C877DC-E5A4-4635-8283-466F15C236E3@me.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.22.NOV.2011.104039.0500.MMCCAFFE@INDIANA.EDU>

Quoting John Sullivan <idiez at me.com>:

> Listeros,
> 	How about some morphology for tezcatlipoca?
> John
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>

Xiquitta in archives. Onca cah.





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From micc2 at cox.net  Tue Nov 22 15:49:08 2011
From: micc2 at cox.net (Mario E. Aguilar)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 07:49:08 -0800
Subject: tezcatlipoca
In-Reply-To: <D0C877DC-E5A4-4635-8283-466F15C236E3@me.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.22.NOV.2011.074908.0800.MICC2@COX.NET>

I (think) somewhere I read it was tezcatl + i + poca(tl)  "the mirror, 
its smoke"  or "the smoke of the mirror" and not smoking mirror as it is 
usually translated....

I live for reasoned, enlightened spirituality:

"Tlacecelilli", tranquilidad, paz


Mario E. Aguilar, PhD

www.mexicayotl.net
www.aguila-blanca.com


On 11/22/2011 7:37 AM, John Sullivan wrote:
> Listeros,
> 	How about some morphology for tezcatlipoca?
> John
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>
>

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From idiez at me.com  Tue Nov 22 19:25:52 2011
From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 13:25:52 -0600
Subject: tezcatlipoca
In-Reply-To: <CAHcTdf3ceG+JMbs5P5T1HGGwM5BX0kNtjVG60hzX0-WaKWM07A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.22.NOV.2011.132552.0600.IDIEZ@ME.COM>

Piyali Tezo huan ne cequin listeros,
	Are there many intransitive/transitive pairs in -ca/-tza besides the reduplicatives?
John

On Nov 22, 2011, at 12:45 PM, Mr Tezozomoc wrote:

> Tezca-tl(i): Mirror
> *ihpoca: to burp
> Intransitive ihpoca is only attested in Tezcatlihpoca.  It's meaning is taken from what would be it's transitive pair, Ihpotza.
> The reason  why it's 1. it''s glyph, 2. ihpoca is similar to popoca: to smoke 3. a possible extened meaning burp/ belch/ puff
> 
> this analysis was given to me by Huitzilmazatzin.... 
> 
> Tezozomoc.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 7:37 AM, John Sullivan <idiez at me.com> wrote:
> Listeros,
>        How about some morphology for tezcatlipoca?
> John
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
> 

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From mmccaffe at indiana.edu  Tue Nov 22 21:55:12 2011
From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 16:55:12 -0500
Subject: tezcatlipoca
In-Reply-To: <AA277665-6570-4115-8FE2-BEB51423BF29@me.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.22.NOV.2011.165512.0500.MMCCAFFE@INDIANA.EDU>

John:

I looked through the archives and figured finally that it was 
"Teotihuacan" not "Tezcatlipoca" that was discussed. Sorry for the 
mistaken reference.

Tezozomoc's explanation is found in Karttunen's dictionary. I'm not 
entranced by it.

Here's what I think is happening with "Tezcatlipoca". (If Joe cringes, 
I will be able to feel it from afar.)

I think the name is Proto-Nahuatl. In other words, I think it's a very 
old name, and this evidenced by the noun form for "mirror," *te:zcatli, 
which would be an older form of te:zcatl.

The modern verb meaning 'smoke' is of course popo:ca, but it seems to 
me that that form is inherently an old reduplicated form, po- being the 
reduplicate suffix, and that at the Proto-Nahuatl level, there was 
probably a verb in the form *po:ca.

If this is correct, then the straight translation would be 'mirror-it 
smokes', which is pretty much what everyone has always said the name 
meant, 'smoking mirror'.


Michael




Quoting John Sullivan <idiez at me.com>:

> Piyali Tezo huan ne cequin listeros,
> 	Are there many intransitive/transitive pairs in -ca/-tza besides the
> reduplicatives?
> John
>
> On Nov 22, 2011, at 12:45 PM, Mr Tezozomoc wrote:
>
>> Tezca-tl(i): Mirror
>> *ihpoca: to burp
>> Intransitive ihpoca is only attested in Tezcatlihpoca.  It's meaning
>> is taken from what would be it's transitive pair, Ihpotza.
>> The reason  why it's 1. it''s glyph, 2. ihpoca is similar to popoca:
>> to smoke 3. a possible extened meaning burp/ belch/ puff
>>
>> this analysis was given to me by Huitzilmazatzin....
>>
>> Tezozomoc.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 7:37 AM, John Sullivan <idiez at me.com> wrote:
>> Listeros,
>>        How about some morphology for tezcatlipoca?
>> John
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nahuatl mailing list
>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>



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From budelberger.richard at wanadoo.fr  Wed Nov 23 22:54:26 2011
From: budelberger.richard at wanadoo.fr (Richard BUDELBERGER)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 23:54:26 +0100
Subject: tezcatlipoca
Message-ID: <WED.23.NOV.2011.235426.0100.BUDELBERGER.RICHARD@WANADOO.FR>

Dear Listeros,

Avez-vous lu Christian Duverger ? « L'Origine des Aztèques », Le Seuil, 1983 p. 193 ou 2003 p. 211, note 2. Une entorse au droit d'auteur... :

— http://books.google.com/books?hl=fr&id=JcYRAQAAIAAJ&q=%22bien+que+l%27usage%22+
— http://books.google.com/books?hl=fr&id=JcYRAQAAIAAJ&q=popocatezcatl
— http://books.google.com/books?hl=fr&id=JcYRAQAAIAAJ&q=tequi
— fumée. Reste à traduire la syllabe -tli qui ne peut appartenir au radical tezcatl, le -tl final tombant lorsqu'un substantif entre en combinaison. On peut probablement la lire comme équivalente de tle, de tletl, feu. D'une part nous avons plusieurs évidences de transcription tlitl pour « feu » ; d'autre part le dictionnaire de Molina connaît le verbe tlepopoca « tener gran calor o calentura » (part II, p. 147 vº). Tezcatlipoca
— http://books.google.com/books?hl=fr&id=JcYRAQAAIAAJ&q=%22magique+et+parabolique%22

tletl/tlitl comme Tlatelolco/Tlatilolco ?



> Message du 22/11/11 23:15
> De : "Michael McCafferty" 
> A : nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> Copie à : 
> Objet : Re: [Nahuat-l] tezcatlipoca
> 
> John:
> 
> I looked through the archives and figured finally that it was 
> "Teotihuacan" not "Tezcatlipoca" that was discussed. Sorry for the 
> mistaken reference.
> 
> Tezozomoc's explanation is found in Karttunen's dictionary. I'm not 
> entranced by it.
> 
> Here's what I think is happening with "Tezcatlipoca". (If Joe cringes, 
> I will be able to feel it from afar.)
> 
> I think the name is Proto-Nahuatl. In other words, I think it's a very 
> old name, and this evidenced by the noun form for "mirror," *te:zcatli, 
> which would be an older form of te:zcatl.
> 
> The modern verb meaning 'smoke' is of course popo:ca, but it seems to 
> me that that form is inherently an old reduplicated form, po- being the 
> reduplicate suffix, and that at the Proto-Nahuatl level, there was 
> probably a verb in the form *po:ca.
> 
> If this is correct, then the straight translation would be 'mirror-it 
> smokes', which is pretty much what everyone has always said the name 
> meant, 'smoking mirror'.
> 
> 
> Michael
> 
> Quoting John Sullivan :
> 
> > Piyali Tezo huan ne cequin listeros,
> > Are there many intransitive/transitive pairs in -ca/-tza besides the
> > reduplicatives?
> > John
> >
> > On Nov 22, 2011, at 12:45 PM, Mr Tezozomoc wrote:
> >
> >> Tezca-tl(i): Mirror
> >> *ihpoca: to burp
> >> Intransitive ihpoca is only attested in Tezcatlihpoca. It's meaning
> >> is taken from what would be it's transitive pair, Ihpotza.
> >> The reason why it's 1. it''s glyph, 2. ihpoca is similar to popoca:
> >> to smoke 3. a possible extened meaning burp/ belch/ puff
> >>
> >> this analysis was given to me by Huitzilmazatzin....
> >>
> >> Tezozomoc.
> >>
> >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 7:37 AM, John Sullivan wrote:
> >> Listeros,
> >> How about some morphology for tezcatlipoca?
> >> John
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From mmccaffe at indiana.edu  Thu Nov 24 03:20:41 2011
From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 22:20:41 -0500
Subject: tezcatlipoca
In-Reply-To: <17264959.62615.1322088866394.JavaMail.www@wwinf1d02>
Message-ID: <WED.23.NOV.2011.222041.0500.MMCCAFFE@INDIANA.EDU>

En meme temps, Richard, il y a un probleme, c'est de lier *tezcatle- a` 
un verbe, c.a.d. -poca. En vrai, cette espece de liaison ne se fait pas 
en nahuatl. C'est impossible, point de vue grammaire. Donc, Duverger ne 
peut pas avoir raison.

Michael


Quoting Richard BUDELBERGER <budelberger.richard at wanadoo.fr>:

> Dear Listeros,
>
> Avez-vous lu Christian Duverger ? « L'Origine des Aztèques », Le
> Seuil, 1983 p. 193 ou 2003 p. 211, note 2. Une entorse au droit
> d'auteur... :
>
> ?
> http://books.google.com/books?hl=fr&id=JcYRAQAAIAAJ&q=%22bien+que+l%27usage%22+
> ? http://books.google.com/books?hl=fr&id=JcYRAQAAIAAJ&q=popocatezcatl
> ? http://books.google.com/books?hl=fr&id=JcYRAQAAIAAJ&q=tequi
> ? fumée. Reste à traduire la syllabe -tli qui ne peut appartenir au
> radical tezcatl, le -tl final tombant lorsqu'un substantif entre en
> combinaison. On peut probablement la lire comme équivalente de tle,
> de tletl, feu. D'une part nous avons plusieurs évidences de
> transcription tlitl pour « feu » ; d'autre part le dictionnaire de
> Molina connaît le verbe tlepopoca « tener gran calor o calentura »
> (part II, p. 147 vº). Tezcatlipoca
> ?
> http://books.google.com/books?hl=fr&id=JcYRAQAAIAAJ&q=%22magique+et+parabolique%22
>
> tletl/tlitl comme Tlatelolco/Tlatilolco ?
>
>
>
>> Message du 22/11/11 23:15
>> De : "Michael McCafferty"
>> A : nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>> Copie à :
>> Objet : Re: [Nahuat-l] tezcatlipoca
>>
>> John:
>>
>> I looked through the archives and figured finally that it was
>> "Teotihuacan" not "Tezcatlipoca" that was discussed. Sorry for the
>> mistaken reference.
>>
>> Tezozomoc's explanation is found in Karttunen's dictionary. I'm not
>> entranced by it.
>>
>> Here's what I think is happening with "Tezcatlipoca". (If Joe cringes,
>> I will be able to feel it from afar.)
>>
>> I think the name is Proto-Nahuatl. In other words, I think it's a very
>> old name, and this evidenced by the noun form for "mirror," *te:zcatli,
>> which would be an older form of te:zcatl.
>>
>> The modern verb meaning 'smoke' is of course popo:ca, but it seems to
>> me that that form is inherently an old reduplicated form, po- being the
>> reduplicate suffix, and that at the Proto-Nahuatl level, there was
>> probably a verb in the form *po:ca.
>>
>> If this is correct, then the straight translation would be 'mirror-it
>> smokes', which is pretty much what everyone has always said the name
>> meant, 'smoking mirror'.
>>
>>
>> Michael
>>
>> Quoting John Sullivan :
>>
>> > Piyali Tezo huan ne cequin listeros,
>> > Are there many intransitive/transitive pairs in -ca/-tza besides the
>> > reduplicatives?
>> > John
>> >
>> > On Nov 22, 2011, at 12:45 PM, Mr Tezozomoc wrote:
>> >
>> >> Tezca-tl(i): Mirror
>> >> *ihpoca: to burp
>> >> Intransitive ihpoca is only attested in Tezcatlihpoca. It's meaning
>> >> is taken from what would be it's transitive pair, Ihpotza.
>> >> The reason why it's 1. it''s glyph, 2. ihpoca is similar to popoca:
>> >> to smoke 3. a possible extened meaning burp/ belch/ puff
>> >>
>> >> this analysis was given to me by Huitzilmazatzin....
>> >>
>> >> Tezozomoc.
>> >>
>> >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 7:37 AM, John Sullivan wrote:
>> >> Listeros,
>> >> How about some morphology for tezcatlipoca?
>> >> John
> _______________________________________________
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> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>



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From mmccaffe at indiana.edu  Fri Nov 25 05:31:50 2011
From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 00:31:50 -0500
Subject: tezcatlipoca
In-Reply-To: <17264959.62615.1322088866394.JavaMail.www@wwinf1d02>
Message-ID: <FRI.25.NOV.2011.003150.0500.MMCCAFFE@INDIANA.EDU>

Richard,

Je crois ce que dit Duverger marcherait, pourvu que *po:ca ait existe a 
cote de popo:ca. Si l'hypothese de Duverger soit correcte, 
*te:zcatlepo:ca ressemblerait grammaticalement a cua:uhtemo:c, et 
signifierait << il fume comme un miroir de pierre >>

Bien a vous,

Michael


[I believe what Duverger is saying would work, so long as *po:ca 
existed alongside popo:ca. If Duverger's supposition is correct, 
*te:zcatlepo:ca would resemble cua:uhtemo:c grammatically, and would 
mean "he smokes like a stone mirror".}




Quoting Richard BUDELBERGER <budelberger.richard at wanadoo.fr>:

> Dear Listeros,
>
> Avez-vous lu Christian Duverger ? « L'Origine des Aztèques », Le
> Seuil, 1983 p. 193 ou 2003 p. 211, note 2. Une entorse au droit
> d'auteur... :
>
> ?
> http://books.google.com/books?hl=fr&id=JcYRAQAAIAAJ&q=%22bien+que+l%27usage%22+
> ? http://books.google.com/books?hl=fr&id=JcYRAQAAIAAJ&q=popocatezcatl
> ? http://books.google.com/books?hl=fr&id=JcYRAQAAIAAJ&q=tequi
> ? fumée. Reste à traduire la syllabe -tli qui ne peut appartenir au
> radical tezcatl, le -tl final tombant lorsqu'un substantif entre en
> combinaison. On peut probablement la lire comme équivalente de tle,
> de tletl, feu. D'une part nous avons plusieurs évidences de
> transcription tlitl pour « feu » ; d'autre part le dictionnaire de
> Molina connaît le verbe tlepopoca « tener gran calor o calentura »
> (part II, p. 147 vº). Tezcatlipoca
> ?
> http://books.google.com/books?hl=fr&id=JcYRAQAAIAAJ&q=%22magique+et+parabolique%22
>
> tletl/tlitl comme Tlatelolco/Tlatilolco ?
>
>
>
>> Message du 22/11/11 23:15
>> De : "Michael McCafferty"
>> A : nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>> Copie à :
>> Objet : Re: [Nahuat-l] tezcatlipoca
>>
>> John:
>>
>> I looked through the archives and figured finally that it was
>> "Teotihuacan" not "Tezcatlipoca" that was discussed. Sorry for the
>> mistaken reference.
>>
>> Tezozomoc's explanation is found in Karttunen's dictionary. I'm not
>> entranced by it.
>>
>> Here's what I think is happening with "Tezcatlipoca". (If Joe cringes,
>> I will be able to feel it from afar.)
>>
>> I think the name is Proto-Nahuatl. In other words, I think it's a very
>> old name, and this evidenced by the noun form for "mirror," *te:zcatli,
>> which would be an older form of te:zcatl.
>>
>> The modern verb meaning 'smoke' is of course popo:ca, but it seems to
>> me that that form is inherently an old reduplicated form, po- being the
>> reduplicate suffix, and that at the Proto-Nahuatl level, there was
>> probably a verb in the form *po:ca.
>>
>> If this is correct, then the straight translation would be 'mirror-it
>> smokes', which is pretty much what everyone has always said the name
>> meant, 'smoking mirror'.
>>
>>
>> Michael
>>
>> Quoting John Sullivan :
>>
>> > Piyali Tezo huan ne cequin listeros,
>> > Are there many intransitive/transitive pairs in -ca/-tza besides the
>> > reduplicatives?
>> > John
>> >
>> > On Nov 22, 2011, at 12:45 PM, Mr Tezozomoc wrote:
>> >
>> >> Tezca-tl(i): Mirror
>> >> *ihpoca: to burp
>> >> Intransitive ihpoca is only attested in Tezcatlihpoca. It's meaning
>> >> is taken from what would be it's transitive pair, Ihpotza.
>> >> The reason why it's 1. it''s glyph, 2. ihpoca is similar to popoca:
>> >> to smoke 3. a possible extened meaning burp/ belch/ puff
>> >>
>> >> this analysis was given to me by Huitzilmazatzin....
>> >>
>> >> Tezozomoc.
>> >>
>> >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 7:37 AM, John Sullivan wrote:
>> >> Listeros,
>> >> How about some morphology for tezcatlipoca?
>> >> John
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>



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Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From t_amaya at megared.net.mx  Sat Nov 26 16:52:51 2011
From: t_amaya at megared.net.mx (Tomas Amando Amaya Aquino)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 10:52:51 -0600
Subject: tezcatlipoca
In-Reply-To: <20111123222041.dron32u40sw0sgcw@webmail.iu.edu>
Message-ID: <SAT.26.NOV.2011.105251.0600.TAMAYA@MEGARED.NET.MX>

Hola listeros.
Siempre es para mí un placer escribirles unas líneas a Uds. tan interesados
en el mexicano.

Ya lo he dicho en este foro varias ocasiones. En nahuatl uno puede hacer
construcciones del tipo "ahmo yn niquixmati inon *tlacatl hueca chanti*,
axa ceppa, oppa yn oniquitztoc"; traducción: no conozco a ese hombre que
vive lejos de aquí, tal vez lo he visto una o dos veces. Otro ejemplo:
ín nic-chía in *tepoztli nehnemini* huan amo yn neci. Trad.: estoy
esperando el fierro que camina (el tren) y sucede que no aparece.
Es decir, si ponemos un sustantivo seguido de una forma verbal, ésta se
convierte más en bien en una adjetivación, con lo que el siginificado del
conjunto es una forma subordinada que se puede  traducir con un relativo
que o quien.
Lo mismo ocurre con tezcatlipoca. Son dos palabras tezcatli = espejo,
vidrio, objeto que brilla y refleja; poca = verbal de humear (sinónimo
de popoca).
Por tanto la traducción es simplemente "espejo que humea". Y así lo
entienden los hablantes de Cuetzalan que poseen buen dominio del idioma.

Por otra parte, es difícil que la i de enmedio sea una partícula marcadora
de posesivo pues entoces se modificaría poctli, humo, quedando así: tezcatl
ipoc:
el humo del espejo, considerando espejo como personalizado. Mejor podríamos
decir tezcahpoctli: humo de espejo, humo a manera de espejo o que espejea.

En lo que se refiere a  'mirror-it smokes', why not in German? Der Spiegel,
der raucht (el espejo, él humea; the mirror, this/that is smoking)
pronunciando el segundo "der" con una entonación y dándole valor de
demostrativo. Pero si  lo relativizamos funciona asi: Der Spiegel, der
raucht, ist verschwunden (The mirror that smokes has disappeared / the
smoking mirror has disappeared; nahuatl: in *tezcatl poca*  ahmo yn neci;
español: el espejo que humea ha desaparecido). Entonces el
mirror-it-smokes, pues digamos que viene a ser en nahuatl tezcatli-poca
(nahuat de Cuetzalan: tezcati-poca), lo que -como ya dije arriba- a los
oidos de los nahuat-hablantes suena a "espejo que humea". Cuidado, no
confundir con "tezcauhpoca", por ejemplo en la expresión "tezcauhpoca yn
tepetl", pues esto significa:el cerro humea a manera de espejo vel. el
cerro humea emitiendo reflejos; donde tezcauh, forma primaria de tezcatl(i)
funciona como adverbio.

Observación 1: ¿por qué digo tezcatli en lugar de tezcatl? Porque son
equivalentes. Hay muchos ejemplos tanto en los escritos de los siglos
posteriores a la conquista como en variantes actuales del nahuatl, v.g.
petlatl vs. petahtli; coyotl vs. coyohtli; yolotl vs. yolohtili; xohitl vs.
xochitli, más un largo etcétera.

Observación 2: Ejemplos de construciones sustantivo + verbo:
a) *inin zazanili ipampatzinco ce cihuatzintli omotocayotitzinohuaya Pofiria
* (Fernando Horcasitas y Sarah O. de Ford, "Los cuentos en Nahuatl de Doña
Luz Jimenez", UNAM, 1979. Pag. 48. Traducción del mismo autor "Este cuento
trata de una mujer que se llamaba Porfiria"
b) *Azo iquion quimotlapopolhuiliz toteco i**dios ompan ilhuicac
metztoc *(ibid.).
Traducción del autor: "A ver si así la perdona Nuestro Señor su Dios que
está en el cielo. Traducción mía: Tal vez así la perdone nuestro señor Dios
que está en el cielo. Donde la í de Dios la tomo como un in, antecedente
para la relativa "dios que está en el cielo"
c) *"Tla xihuallauh Tenuché, yzca yn iyollo tlaciuhqui Copil
onicmicti.*Traducción de Rafael Tena: "Tenoch, he aquí el corazón del
adivino Copil, a
quien sacrifiqué"; mi traducción: Acércate por favor Tenoch, este es el
corazón del brujo (para mí taixcui') Copil a quien he quitado la vida.
(Domingo Chimalpahín. Las ocho relaciones y el memorial de Colhuacan.
Paleografia y traducción de Rafael Tena. Cien de México. CONACULTA. Mex.
1998. Pag. 160; Memorial de Colhuacan, año 1281)
d) *Auh yn ichpoch quihualhuicaca Copil yn itoca Xicomoyahualtzin niman
conan quimocihuahuati yehuatl in Cuauhtlequetzqui.* Traducción de Tena: A
la hija que traía consigo Copil, llamada Xicomoyahualtzin la tomó por mujer
Cuauhtlequetzqui. (Ibid.)

Mahxiyolpaquican tocnihuané

Tomas Amaya









2011/11/23 Michael McCafferty <mmccaffe at indiana.edu>

> En meme temps, Richard, il y a un probleme, c'est de lier *tezcatle- a` un
> verbe, c.a.d. -poca. En vrai, cette espece de liaison ne se fait pas en
> nahuatl. C'est impossible, point de vue grammaire. Donc, Duverger ne peut
> pas avoir raison.
>
> Michael
>
>
> Quoting Richard BUDELBERGER <budelberger.richard at wanadoo.**fr<budelberger.richard at wanadoo.fr>
> >:
>
>  Dear Listeros,
>>
>> Avez-vous lu Christian Duverger ? « L'Origine des Aztèques », Le
>> Seuil, 1983 p. 193 ou 2003 p. 211, note 2. Une entorse au droit
>> d'auteur... :
>>
>> ?
>>
>> http://books.google.com/books?**hl=fr&id=JcYRAQAAIAAJ&q=%**
>> 22bien+que+l%27usage%22+<http://books.google.com/books?hl=fr&id=JcYRAQAAIAAJ&q=%22bien+que+l%27usage%22+>
>> ? http://books.google.com/books?**hl=fr&id=JcYRAQAAIAAJ&q=**popocatezcatl<http://books.google.com/books?hl=fr&id=JcYRAQAAIAAJ&q=popocatezcatl>
>> ? http://books.google.com/books?**hl=fr&id=JcYRAQAAIAAJ&q=tequi<http://books.google.com/books?hl=fr&id=JcYRAQAAIAAJ&q=tequi>
>> ? fumée. Reste à traduire la syllabe -tli qui ne peut appartenir au
>> radical tezcatl, le -tl final tombant lorsqu'un substantif entre en
>> combinaison. On peut probablement la lire comme équivalente de tle,
>> de tletl, feu. D'une part nous avons plusieurs évidences de
>> transcription tlitl pour « feu » ; d'autre part le dictionnaire de
>> Molina connaît le verbe tlepopoca « tener gran calor o calentura »
>> (part II, p. 147 vº). Tezcatlipoca
>> ?
>>
>> http://books.google.com/books?**hl=fr&id=JcYRAQAAIAAJ&q=%**
>> 22magique+et+parabolique%22<http://books.google.com/books?hl=fr&id=JcYRAQAAIAAJ&q=%22magique+et+parabolique%22>
>>
>> tletl/tlitl comme Tlatelolco/Tlatilolco ?
>>
>>
>>
>> Message du 22/11/11 23:15
>>> De : "Michael McCafferty"
>>> A : nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>>> Copie à :
>>> Objet : Re: [Nahuat-l] tezcatlipoca
>>>
>>> John:
>>>
>>> I looked through the archives and figured finally that it was
>>> "Teotihuacan" not "Tezcatlipoca" that was discussed. Sorry for the
>>> mistaken reference.
>>>
>>> Tezozomoc's explanation is found in Karttunen's dictionary. I'm not
>>> entranced by it.
>>>
>>> Here's what I think is happening with "Tezcatlipoca". (If Joe cringes,
>>> I will be able to feel it from afar.)
>>>
>>> I think the name is Proto-Nahuatl. In other words, I think it's a very
>>> old name, and this evidenced by the noun form for "mirror," *te:zcatli,
>>> which would be an older form of te:zcatl.
>>>
>>> The modern verb meaning 'smoke' is of course popo:ca, but it seems to
>>> me that that form is inherently an old reduplicated form, po- being the
>>> reduplicate suffix, and that at the Proto-Nahuatl level, there was
>>> probably a verb in the form *po:ca.
>>>
>>> If this is correct, then the straight translation would be 'mirror-it
>>> smokes', which is pretty much what everyone has always said the name
>>> meant, 'smoking mirror'.
>>>
>>>
>>> Michael
>>>
>>> Quoting John Sullivan :
>>>
>>> > Piyali Tezo huan ne cequin listeros,
>>> > Are there many intransitive/transitive pairs in -ca/-tza besides the
>>> > reduplicatives?
>>> > John
>>> >
>>> > On Nov 22, 2011, at 12:45 PM, Mr Tezozomoc wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> Tezca-tl(i): Mirror
>>> >> *ihpoca: to burp
>>> >> Intransitive ihpoca is only attested in Tezcatlihpoca. It's meaning
>>> >> is taken from what would be it's transitive pair, Ihpotza.
>>> >> The reason why it's 1. it''s glyph, 2. ihpoca is similar to popoca:
>>> >> to smoke 3. a possible extened meaning burp/ belch/ puff
>>> >>
>>> >> this analysis was given to me by Huitzilmazatzin....
>>> >>
>>> >> Tezozomoc.
>>> >>
>>> >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 7:37 AM, John Sullivan wrote:
>>> >> Listeros,
>>> >> How about some morphology for tezcatlipoca?
>>> >> John
>>>
>> ______________________________**_________________
>> Nahuatl mailing list
>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/**listinfo/nahuatl<http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl>
>>
>>
>
>
> ______________________________**_________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/**listinfo/nahuatl<http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl>
>
_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From mmccaffe at indiana.edu  Sat Nov 26 18:49:52 2011
From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 13:49:52 -0500
Subject: tezcatlipoca
In-Reply-To: <CAEWzdwAcVwAJhGxSfbECfDrONERzuTvZx+giqwRw900qWuYV3Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SAT.26.NOV.2011.134952.0500.MMCCAFFE@INDIANA.EDU>

As I explained earlier in the week, Tomas, "tezcatli (po)poca" is 
indeed a good analysis of this name. Estoy de acuerdo.

At the same time, Duverger's suggestion that the etymology of the name 
is "tezcatl + tlitl/tletl + (po) poca" --> tezcatlipoca also is a 
grammatical analysis.

Personally, I prefer the first, but the second works grammatically just 
as in the expression name 'Cuauhtemoc'.

Best,

Michael


Quoting Tomas Amando Amaya Aquino <t_amaya at megared.net.mx>:

> Hola listeros.
> Siempre es para mí un placer escribirles unas líneas a Uds. tan interesados
> en el mexicano.
>
> Ya lo he dicho en este foro varias ocasiones. En nahuatl uno puede hacer
> construcciones del tipo "ahmo yn niquixmati inon *tlacatl hueca chanti*,
> axa ceppa, oppa yn oniquitztoc"; traducción: no conozco a ese hombre que
> vive lejos de aquí, tal vez lo he visto una o dos veces. Otro ejemplo:
> ín nic-chía in *tepoztli nehnemini* huan amo yn neci. Trad.: estoy
> esperando el fierro que camina (el tren) y sucede que no aparece.
> Es decir, si ponemos un sustantivo seguido de una forma verbal, ésta se
> convierte más en bien en una adjetivación, con lo que el siginificado del
> conjunto es una forma subordinada que se puede  traducir con un relativo
> que o quien.
> Lo mismo ocurre con tezcatlipoca. Son dos palabras tezcatli = espejo,
> vidrio, objeto que brilla y refleja; poca = verbal de humear (sinónimo
> de popoca).
> Por tanto la traducción es simplemente "espejo que humea". Y así lo
> entienden los hablantes de Cuetzalan que poseen buen dominio del idioma.
>
> Por otra parte, es difícil que la i de enmedio sea una partícula marcadora
> de posesivo pues entoces se modificaría poctli, humo, quedando así: tezcatl
> ipoc:
> el humo del espejo, considerando espejo como personalizado. Mejor podríamos
> decir tezcahpoctli: humo de espejo, humo a manera de espejo o que espejea.
>
> En lo que se refiere a  'mirror-it smokes', why not in German? Der Spiegel,
> der raucht (el espejo, él humea; the mirror, this/that is smoking)
> pronunciando el segundo "der" con una entonación y dándole valor de
> demostrativo. Pero si  lo relativizamos funciona asi: Der Spiegel, der
> raucht, ist verschwunden (The mirror that smokes has disappeared / the
> smoking mirror has disappeared; nahuatl: in *tezcatl poca*  ahmo yn neci;
> español: el espejo que humea ha desaparecido). Entonces el
> mirror-it-smokes, pues digamos que viene a ser en nahuatl tezcatli-poca
> (nahuat de Cuetzalan: tezcati-poca), lo que -como ya dije arriba- a los
> oidos de los nahuat-hablantes suena a "espejo que humea". Cuidado, no
> confundir con "tezcauhpoca", por ejemplo en la expresión "tezcauhpoca yn
> tepetl", pues esto significa:el cerro humea a manera de espejo vel. el
> cerro humea emitiendo reflejos; donde tezcauh, forma primaria de tezcatl(i)
> funciona como adverbio.
>
> Observación 1: ¿por qué digo tezcatli en lugar de tezcatl? Porque son
> equivalentes. Hay muchos ejemplos tanto en los escritos de los siglos
> posteriores a la conquista como en variantes actuales del nahuatl, v.g.
> petlatl vs. petahtli; coyotl vs. coyohtli; yolotl vs. yolohtili; xohitl vs.
> xochitli, más un largo etcétera.
>
> Observación 2: Ejemplos de construciones sustantivo + verbo:
> a) *inin zazanili ipampatzinco ce cihuatzintli omotocayotitzinohuaya Pofiria
> * (Fernando Horcasitas y Sarah O. de Ford, "Los cuentos en Nahuatl de Doña
> Luz Jimenez", UNAM, 1979. Pag. 48. Traducción del mismo autor "Este cuento
> trata de una mujer que se llamaba Porfiria"
> b) *Azo iquion quimotlapopolhuiliz toteco i**dios ompan ilhuicac
> metztoc *(ibid.).
> Traducción del autor: "A ver si así la perdona Nuestro Señor su Dios que
> está en el cielo. Traducción mía: Tal vez así la perdone nuestro señor Dios
> que está en el cielo. Donde la í de Dios la tomo como un in, antecedente
> para la relativa "dios que está en el cielo"
> c) *"Tla xihuallauh Tenuché, yzca yn iyollo tlaciuhqui Copil
> onicmicti.*Traducción de Rafael Tena: "Tenoch, he aquí el corazón del
> adivino Copil, a
> quien sacrifiqué"; mi traducción: Acércate por favor Tenoch, este es el
> corazón del brujo (para mí taixcui') Copil a quien he quitado la vida.
> (Domingo Chimalpahín. Las ocho relaciones y el memorial de Colhuacan.
> Paleografia y traducción de Rafael Tena. Cien de México. CONACULTA. Mex.
> 1998. Pag. 160; Memorial de Colhuacan, año 1281)
> d) *Auh yn ichpoch quihualhuicaca Copil yn itoca Xicomoyahualtzin niman
> conan quimocihuahuati yehuatl in Cuauhtlequetzqui.* Traducción de Tena: A
> la hija que traía consigo Copil, llamada Xicomoyahualtzin la tomó por mujer
> Cuauhtlequetzqui. (Ibid.)
>
> Mahxiyolpaquican tocnihuané
>
> Tomas Amaya
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 2011/11/23 Michael McCafferty <mmccaffe at indiana.edu>
>
>> En meme temps, Richard, il y a un probleme, c'est de lier *tezcatle- a` un
>> verbe, c.a.d. -poca. En vrai, cette espece de liaison ne se fait pas en
>> nahuatl. C'est impossible, point de vue grammaire. Donc, Duverger ne peut
>> pas avoir raison.
>>
>> Michael
>>
>>
>> Quoting Richard BUDELBERGER
>> <budelberger.richard at wanadoo.**fr<budelberger.richard at wanadoo.fr>
>> >:
>>
>>  Dear Listeros,
>>>
>>> Avez-vous lu Christian Duverger ? « L'Origine des Aztèques », Le
>>> Seuil, 1983 p. 193 ou 2003 p. 211, note 2. Une entorse au droit
>>> d'auteur... :
>>>
>>> ?
>>>
>>> http://books.google.com/books?**hl=fr&id=JcYRAQAAIAAJ&q=%**
>>> 22bien+que+l%27usage%22+<http://books.google.com/books?hl=fr&id=JcYRAQAAIAAJ&q=%22bien+que+l%27usage%22+>
>>> ?
>>> http://books.google.com/books?**hl=fr&id=JcYRAQAAIAAJ&q=**popocatezcatl<http://books.google.com/books?hl=fr&id=JcYRAQAAIAAJ&q=popocatezcatl>
>>> ?
>>> http://books.google.com/books?**hl=fr&id=JcYRAQAAIAAJ&q=tequi<http://books.google.com/books?hl=fr&id=JcYRAQAAIAAJ&q=tequi>
>>> ? fumée. Reste à traduire la syllabe -tli qui ne peut appartenir au
>>> radical tezcatl, le -tl final tombant lorsqu'un substantif entre en
>>> combinaison. On peut probablement la lire comme équivalente de tle,
>>> de tletl, feu. D'une part nous avons plusieurs évidences de
>>> transcription tlitl pour « feu » ; d'autre part le dictionnaire de
>>> Molina connaît le verbe tlepopoca « tener gran calor o calentura »
>>> (part II, p. 147 vº). Tezcatlipoca
>>> ?
>>>
>>> http://books.google.com/books?**hl=fr&id=JcYRAQAAIAAJ&q=%**
>>> 22magique+et+parabolique%22<http://books.google.com/books?hl=fr&id=JcYRAQAAIAAJ&q=%22magique+et+parabolique%22>
>>>
>>> tletl/tlitl comme Tlatelolco/Tlatilolco ?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Message du 22/11/11 23:15
>>>> De : "Michael McCafferty"
>>>> A : nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>>>> Copie à :
>>>> Objet : Re: [Nahuat-l] tezcatlipoca
>>>>
>>>> John:
>>>>
>>>> I looked through the archives and figured finally that it was
>>>> "Teotihuacan" not "Tezcatlipoca" that was discussed. Sorry for the
>>>> mistaken reference.
>>>>
>>>> Tezozomoc's explanation is found in Karttunen's dictionary. I'm not
>>>> entranced by it.
>>>>
>>>> Here's what I think is happening with "Tezcatlipoca". (If Joe cringes,
>>>> I will be able to feel it from afar.)
>>>>
>>>> I think the name is Proto-Nahuatl. In other words, I think it's a very
>>>> old name, and this evidenced by the noun form for "mirror," *te:zcatli,
>>>> which would be an older form of te:zcatl.
>>>>
>>>> The modern verb meaning 'smoke' is of course popo:ca, but it seems to
>>>> me that that form is inherently an old reduplicated form, po- being the
>>>> reduplicate suffix, and that at the Proto-Nahuatl level, there was
>>>> probably a verb in the form *po:ca.
>>>>
>>>> If this is correct, then the straight translation would be 'mirror-it
>>>> smokes', which is pretty much what everyone has always said the name
>>>> meant, 'smoking mirror'.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Michael
>>>>
>>>> Quoting John Sullivan :
>>>>
>>>> > Piyali Tezo huan ne cequin listeros,
>>>> > Are there many intransitive/transitive pairs in -ca/-tza besides the
>>>> > reduplicatives?
>>>> > John
>>>> >
>>>> > On Nov 22, 2011, at 12:45 PM, Mr Tezozomoc wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> Tezca-tl(i): Mirror
>>>> >> *ihpoca: to burp
>>>> >> Intransitive ihpoca is only attested in Tezcatlihpoca. It's meaning
>>>> >> is taken from what would be it's transitive pair, Ihpotza.
>>>> >> The reason why it's 1. it''s glyph, 2. ihpoca is similar to popoca:
>>>> >> to smoke 3. a possible extened meaning burp/ belch/ puff
>>>> >>
>>>> >> this analysis was given to me by Huitzilmazatzin....
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Tezozomoc.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 7:37 AM, John Sullivan wrote:
>>>> >> Listeros,
>>>> >> How about some morphology for tezcatlipoca?
>>>> >> John
>>>>
>>> ______________________________**_________________
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>>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/**listinfo/nahuatl<http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________**_________________
>> Nahuatl mailing list
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>>
>



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From stewart.felker at gmail.com  Sun Nov 27 19:14:52 2011
From: stewart.felker at gmail.com (Stewart Felker)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 13:14:52 -0600
Subject: Anomalies/enigmas of the plant "toloatzin" (and a deity "Tolo")?
Message-ID: <SUN.27.NOV.2011.131452.0600.STEWART.FELKER@GMAIL.COM>

Greetings! New member here; and while I'm really glad to have found this
list, I'm still quite an amateur in Mesoamerican studies--so bear with me.

I'm looking for some insight into the meaning of the Nahuatl name for a
plant (*Datura stramonium*), identified in textual sources as either
"toloatzin" or "tolohuaxihuitl" (Codex de la Cruz-Badiano).

What I am a little confused with is this: I understand that "tōloā" is
simply a verb in its infinitive form, usually translated as "to bow (the
head)," or "to bend"—so at first it would seem that "toloatzin" might be
very literally translated as "the revered to bend." This obviously doesn't
sound right. Is there some rule in Nahuatl nominal formation that allows
for the presence of the infinitive, or its transformation to produce the
normal translation of "toloatzin" that I see—"the revered bended one"?

As an addendum to this, in "tolohuaxihuitl," I understand -xihuitl to
pretty unambiguously signify "herb." Am I also correct to assume that the
-ohua in "tolohua" is simply an transliterative variant of -oa (thus being
the same form as in "toloatzin")—therefore "tolohuaxihuitl" is to be
understood as "the herb, the bended one"?

Finally, while I know that this is addressed in Romero's monograph *El Dios
Tolotzin*, I haven't been able to access it--does anyone have any
information about a deity known as Tolo, and whether he might be considered
a "hypostatized" tolohuaxihuitl?


Best regards,

Stewart Felker (University of Memphis)
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From mmccaffe at indiana.edu  Sun Nov 27 20:03:51 2011
From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 15:03:51 -0500
Subject: Anomalies/enigmas of the plant "toloatzin" (and a deity
 "Tolo")?
In-Reply-To: <CADr0k_=O8vodV_m8mcyEFQ2bdeohZtOUngLehdyT6TpU4DLESw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SUN.27.NOV.2011.150351.0500.MMCCAFFE@INDIANA.EDU>

Stewart:

Florentine Codex (Dibble and Anderson), Book 11, page 147, gives 
"Toloa" as a term for Datura. That would imply, with the endearment 
suffix -tzin attached in your word 'toloatzin', that we are not dealing 
with a verb; 'toloa' here is a noun, and an unusual one, in that it 
lacks an absolutive suffix, the "-tl/-tli" that you see in Nahuatl.

The noun "toloa" (presumed *toloatl*) could be found to derive from a 
verb, although we have a slight problem since there are two verbs in 
the sources spelled "toloa," one meaning 'bend', the other 'swallow'.

Michael McCafferty



Quoting Stewart Felker <stewart.felker at gmail.com>:

> Greetings! New member here; and while I'm really glad to have found this
> list, I'm still quite an amateur in Mesoamerican studies--so bear with me.
>
> I'm looking for some insight into the meaning of the Nahuatl name for a
> plant (*Datura stramonium*), identified in textual sources as either
> "toloatzin" or "tolohuaxihuitl" (Codex de la Cruz-Badiano).
>
> What I am a little confused with is this: I understand that "t?lo?" is
> simply a verb in its infinitive form, usually translated as "to bow (the
> head)," or "to bend"?so at first it would seem that "toloatzin" might be
> very literally translated as "the revered to bend." This obviously doesn't
> sound right. Is there some rule in Nahuatl nominal formation that allows
> for the presence of the infinitive, or its transformation to produce the
> normal translation of "toloatzin" that I see?"the revered bended one"?
>
> As an addendum to this, in "tolohuaxihuitl," I understand -xihuitl to
> pretty unambiguously signify "herb." Am I also correct to assume that the
> -ohua in "tolohua" is simply an transliterative variant of -oa (thus being
> the same form as in "toloatzin")?therefore "tolohuaxihuitl" is to be
> understood as "the herb, the bended one"?
>
> Finally, while I know that this is addressed in Romero's monograph *El Dios
> Tolotzin*, I haven't been able to access it--does anyone have any
> information about a deity known as Tolo, and whether he might be considered
> a "hypostatized" tolohuaxihuitl?
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Stewart Felker (University of Memphis)
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>



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From 4anahuac at gmail.com  Wed Nov 30 06:20:28 2011
From: 4anahuac at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Fernando_Garc=EDa_G=2E?=)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 00:20:28 -0600
Subject: Mezquite
Message-ID: <WED.30.NOV.2011.002028.0600.4ANAHUAC@GMAIL.COM>

Saludos

Mi pregunta es sencilla: hay un árbol que se llama Mezquite, que es muy
común en México. Da unas vainas con sabor que se mastican. Su madera, por
ser dura, se utiliza a veces para hacer muebles y casi siempre como leña.

Ahora bien, hace unos cinco años un profesor de una escuela secundaria de
Yuriria, Guanajuato, platicó que el árbol de mezquite debe cortarse cuando
está la luna llena. ¿esto para qué? para que, gracias a la gravedad
ejercida por la luna, la madera comprima sus fibras y los leños resultantes
de la tala tengan mayor dureza. Yo no sé si la gravedad de la luna, que
bien produce las mareas, sea capaz de apretar la madera.

Aquí va la pregunta, el nombre *Mezquite* me suena a la combinación de
'me:tz-tli' y 'quil(i)tl'

me:tz-tli = luna o mes.

quil(i)tl = verdura, yerbas comestibles. [esta palabra se conserva como
'quelite']

(me:tz - tli + quilitl ) = me:tzquilitl

El significado resultante supongo que es parecido a 'yerba de la luna'

Aunque para que fuera 'Mezquite' tal cual, tendría que transformarse la
palabra 'quelite' por 'quite'.
¿es posible que el nombre Mezquite tenga este origen?
Lo más seguro es que estoy cometiendo un error, porque el Mezquite no es
una hierba sino un árbol, y porque desconozco en que se basó el profesor
para decir lo del tronco cortado bajo la luna llena.

Agradezco mucho que la lista esté abierta a todos los que quieran
participar, por admitirme y así poder tomar un poco de su atención.
(las palabras en Náhuatl las tomé del diccionario de Karttunen).

Fernando
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From mmccaffe at indiana.edu  Wed Nov 30 12:40:33 2011
From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 07:40:33 -0500
Subject: Mezquite
In-Reply-To: <CAH6N8skXZWjEzQCM2CkLVMxsXi_P_y9AMbbX8yT-8SiQBLct0w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <WED.30.NOV.2011.074033.0500.MMCCAFFE@INDIANA.EDU>

Fernando,

No se las respuestas pero gracias de una historia muy interesante.

Michael

Quoting "Fernando García G." <4anahuac at gmail.com>:

> Saludos
>
> Mi pregunta es sencilla: hay un árbol que se llama Mezquite, que es muy
> común en México. Da unas vainas con sabor que se mastican. Su madera, por
> ser dura, se utiliza a veces para hacer muebles y casi siempre como leña.
>
> Ahora bien, hace unos cinco años un profesor de una escuela secundaria de
> Yuriria, Guanajuato, platicó que el árbol de mezquite debe cortarse cuando
> está la luna llena. ¿esto para qué? para que, gracias a la gravedad
> ejercida por la luna, la madera comprima sus fibras y los leños resultantes
> de la tala tengan mayor dureza. Yo no sé si la gravedad de la luna, que
> bien produce las mareas, sea capaz de apretar la madera.
>
> Aquí va la pregunta, el nombre *Mezquite* me suena a la combinación de
> 'me:tz-tli' y 'quil(i)tl'
>
> me:tz-tli = luna o mes.
>
> quil(i)tl = verdura, yerbas comestibles. [esta palabra se conserva como
> 'quelite']
>
> (me:tz - tli + quilitl ) = me:tzquilitl
>
> El significado resultante supongo que es parecido a 'yerba de la luna'
>
> Aunque para que fuera 'Mezquite' tal cual, tendría que transformarse la
> palabra 'quelite' por 'quite'.
> ¿es posible que el nombre Mezquite tenga este origen?
> Lo más seguro es que estoy cometiendo un error, porque el Mezquite no es
> una hierba sino un árbol, y porque desconozco en que se basó el profesor
> para decir lo del tronco cortado bajo la luna llena.
>
> Agradezco mucho que la lista esté abierta a todos los que quieran
> participar, por admitirme y así poder tomar un poco de su atención.
> (las palabras en Náhuatl las tomé del diccionario de Karttunen).
>
> Fernando
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>



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From jdanahuatl at gmail.com  Wed Nov 30 22:30:17 2011
From: jdanahuatl at gmail.com (Jonathan Amith)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 17:30:17 -0500
Subject: Mezquite
In-Reply-To: <20111130074033.3g7950gk0cw8scko@webmail.iu.edu>
Message-ID: <WED.30.NOV.2011.173017.0500.JDANAHUATL@GMAIL.COM>

Hi,

The belief in moon phases affecting the properties of cut wood is a long,
long European tradition. Whether it was also New World I don't know, I
don't remember having seen it in any colonial sources through it is a
common belief throughout indigenous and non-indigenous villages.

The tree term mezquite has a lot of referents, not all Leguminosae. In the
Costa Chica of Guerrero I have recorded a Ficus called mezquite. The
edible-pod mi:skitl is probably Prosopis laevigata (H. & B. ex Willd.) M.C.
Johnst. (this from the Balsas Valley) although perhaps also P. juliflora in
other parts of Mexico.

In the Sierra Norte de Puebla there is another tree called miskitl (short
/i/), probably Diphysa americana (Mill.) M. Sousa or Lonchocarpus
hidalgensis Lundell (I need to check which one is the referent of the
indigenous term). Maximino Martinez lists Lysiloma divaricata and
Parkinsonia aculeata as referents for mezquite. I do not know if these have
edible pods like Prosopis laevigata.




2011/11/30 Michael McCafferty <mmccaffe at indiana.edu>

> Fernando,
>
> No se las respuestas pero gracias de una historia muy interesante.
>
> Michael
>
>
> Quoting "Fernando García G." <4anahuac at gmail.com>:
>
>  Saludos
>>
>> Mi pregunta es sencilla: hay un árbol que se llama Mezquite, que es muy
>> común en México. Da unas vainas con sabor que se mastican. Su madera, por
>> ser dura, se utiliza a veces para hacer muebles y casi siempre como leña.
>>
>> Ahora bien, hace unos cinco años un profesor de una escuela secundaria de
>> Yuriria, Guanajuato, platicó que el árbol de mezquite debe cortarse cuando
>> está la luna llena. ¿esto para qué? para que, gracias a la gravedad
>> ejercida por la luna, la madera comprima sus fibras y los leños
>> resultantes
>> de la tala tengan mayor dureza. Yo no sé si la gravedad de la luna, que
>> bien produce las mareas, sea capaz de apretar la madera.
>>
>> Aquí va la pregunta, el nombre *Mezquite* me suena a la combinación de
>> 'me:tz-tli' y 'quil(i)tl'
>>
>> me:tz-tli = luna o mes.
>>
>> quil(i)tl = verdura, yerbas comestibles. [esta palabra se conserva como
>> 'quelite']
>>
>> (me:tz - tli + quilitl ) = me:tzquilitl
>>
>> El significado resultante supongo que es parecido a 'yerba de la luna'
>>
>> Aunque para que fuera 'Mezquite' tal cual, tendría que transformarse la
>> palabra 'quelite' por 'quite'.
>> ¿es posible que el nombre Mezquite tenga este origen?
>> Lo más seguro es que estoy cometiendo un error, porque el Mezquite no es
>> una hierba sino un árbol, y porque desconozco en que se basó el profesor
>> para decir lo del tronco cortado bajo la luna llena.
>>
>> Agradezco mucho que la lista esté abierta a todos los que quieran
>> participar, por admitirme y así poder tomar un poco de su atención.
>> (las palabras en Náhuatl las tomé del diccionario de Karttunen).
>>
>> Fernando
>> ______________________________**_________________
>> Nahuatl mailing list
>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/**listinfo/nahuatl<http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl>
>>
>>
>
>
> ______________________________**_________________
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>
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From chelodona at hotmail.com  Wed Nov 30 19:20:18 2011
From: chelodona at hotmail.com (chelo dona)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 16:20:18 -0300
Subject: Mezquite
In-Reply-To: <20111130074033.3g7950gk0cw8scko@webmail.iu.edu>
Message-ID: <WED.30.NOV.2011.162018.0300.CHELODONA@HOTMAIL.COM>

Es muy interesante! 

Toda madera resulta de diferente duración y calidad según la luna en que se corte, por lo que tengo entendido esto se debe a la cantidad de agua que tiene en ese momento. Del mismo modo no da el mismo resultado cortarse el pelo o las uñas, o sembrar en distintas lunas.


 		 	   		  
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From rbenavides05 at hotmail.com  Wed Nov 30 18:29:29 2011
From: rbenavides05 at hotmail.com (R. B.)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 12:29:29 -0600
Subject: Mezquite (Rafael Benavides)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3.1322676002.30714.nahuatl@lists.famsi.org>
Message-ID: <WED.30.NOV.2011.122929.0600.RBENAVIDES05@HOTMAIL.COM>

Hola Fernando,
Soy de la frontera de Texas y Tamaulipas, y me acuerdo mucho de mi abuelito con esa historia del mesquite, y si es cierto que se tiene que cortar cuando hay una luna llena--en nuestro caso, para utilizarlas como postes en el rancho, si no se pudren.
Aunque no se cual es la etimologia de la palabra, yo tengo entendido que "mezquite" en Nahuatl es mizquitl, o mizquicuauhuitl, no metzquilitl. Karttunen nos afirma esto en su libro, "An Analytical Dictionary of Nahuatl".
Saludos cordiales,Rafael Benavides


> From: nahuatl-request at lists.famsi.org
> Subject: Nahuatl Digest, Vol 239, Issue 2
> To: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 12:00:02 -0600
> 
> Send Nahuatl mailing list submissions to
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> 
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> than "Re: Contents of Nahuatl digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>    1. Mezquite (Fernando García G.)
>    2. Re: Mezquite (Michael McCafferty)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 00:20:28 -0600
> From: Fernando García G. <4anahuac at gmail.com>
> To: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> Subject: [Nahuat-l] Mezquite
> Message-ID:
> 	<CAH6N8skXZWjEzQCM2CkLVMxsXi_P_y9AMbbX8yT-8SiQBLct0w at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> 
> Saludos
> 
> Mi pregunta es sencilla: hay un árbol que se llama Mezquite, que es muy
> común en México. Da unas vainas con sabor que se mastican. Su madera, por
> ser dura, se utiliza a veces para hacer muebles y casi siempre como leña.
> 
> Ahora bien, hace unos cinco años un profesor de una escuela secundaria de
> Yuriria, Guanajuato, platicó que el árbol de mezquite debe cortarse cuando
> está la luna llena. ¿esto para qué? para que, gracias a la gravedad
> ejercida por la luna, la madera comprima sus fibras y los leños resultantes
> de la tala tengan mayor dureza. Yo no sé si la gravedad de la luna, que
> bien produce las mareas, sea capaz de apretar la madera.
> 
> Aquí va la pregunta, el nombre *Mezquite* me suena a la combinación de
> 'me:tz-tli' y 'quil(i)tl'
> 
> me:tz-tli = luna o mes.
> 
> quil(i)tl = verdura, yerbas comestibles. [esta palabra se conserva como
> 'quelite']
> 
> (me:tz - tli + quilitl ) = me:tzquilitl
> 
> El significado resultante supongo que es parecido a 'yerba de la luna'
> 
> Aunque para que fuera 'Mezquite' tal cual, tendría que transformarse la
> palabra 'quelite' por 'quite'.
> ¿es posible que el nombre Mezquite tenga este origen?
> Lo más seguro es que estoy cometiendo un error, porque el Mezquite no es
> una hierba sino un árbol, y porque desconozco en que se basó el profesor
> para decir lo del tronco cortado bajo la luna llena.
> 
> Agradezco mucho que la lista esté abierta a todos los que quieran
> participar, por admitirme y así poder tomar un poco de su atención.
> (las palabras en Náhuatl las tomé del diccionario de Karttunen).
> 
> Fernando
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 07:40:33 -0500
> From: Michael McCafferty <mmccaffe at indiana.edu>
> To: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> Subject: Re: [Nahuat-l] Mezquite
> Message-ID: <20111130074033.3g7950gk0cw8scko at webmail.iu.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset=ISO-8859-1;	format="flowed"
> 
> Fernando,
> 
> No se las respuestas pero gracias de una historia muy interesante.
> 
> Michael
> 
> Quoting "Fernando García G." <4anahuac at gmail.com>:
> 
> > Saludos
> >
> > Mi pregunta es sencilla: hay un árbol que se llama Mezquite, que es muy
> > común en México. Da unas vainas con sabor que se mastican. Su madera, por
> > ser dura, se utiliza a veces para hacer muebles y casi siempre como leña.
> >
> > Ahora bien, hace unos cinco años un profesor de una escuela secundaria de
> > Yuriria, Guanajuato, platicó que el árbol de mezquite debe cortarse cuando
> > está la luna llena. ¿esto para qué? para que, gracias a la gravedad
> > ejercida por la luna, la madera comprima sus fibras y los leños resultantes
> > de la tala tengan mayor dureza. Yo no sé si la gravedad de la luna, que
> > bien produce las mareas, sea capaz de apretar la madera.
> >
> > Aquí va la pregunta, el nombre *Mezquite* me suena a la combinación de
> > 'me:tz-tli' y 'quil(i)tl'
> >
> > me:tz-tli = luna o mes.
> >
> > quil(i)tl = verdura, yerbas comestibles. [esta palabra se conserva como
> > 'quelite']
> >
> > (me:tz - tli + quilitl ) = me:tzquilitl
> >
> > El significado resultante supongo que es parecido a 'yerba de la luna'
> >
> > Aunque para que fuera 'Mezquite' tal cual, tendría que transformarse la
> > palabra 'quelite' por 'quite'.
> > ¿es posible que el nombre Mezquite tenga este origen?
> > Lo más seguro es que estoy cometiendo un error, porque el Mezquite no es
> > una hierba sino un árbol, y porque desconozco en que se basó el profesor
> > para decir lo del tronco cortado bajo la luna llena.
> >
> > Agradezco mucho que la lista esté abierta a todos los que quieran
> > participar, por admitirme y así poder tomar un poco de su atención.
> > (las palabras en Náhuatl las tomé del diccionario de Karttunen).
> >
> > Fernando
> > _______________________________________________
> > Nahuatl mailing list
> > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
> 
> 
> End of Nahuatl Digest, Vol 239, Issue 2
> ***************************************
 		 	   		  
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From mmccaffe at indiana.edu  Wed Nov 30 23:04:37 2011
From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 18:04:37 -0500
Subject: Mezquite
In-Reply-To: <SNT114-W319EA1704CF04F583B3470A6B00@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <WED.30.NOV.2011.180437.0500.MMCCAFFE@INDIANA.EDU>

Nahuatl mizquitl is regular in the way it was borrowed into Spanish 
with final -ite ending.

Seems to me that mizquitl has nothing to do with me:tzli, because of 
the vowel length discrepancy between /i/ and /e:/.

I haven't checked Joe, but mizqu(i)- seems to be a morpheme all of its 
own...unless this is mi:ztli + quilitl, and the quilitl has been 
shortened. (The Proto-Algonquian term for 'dogwood tree' translates to 
'cat wood'.)

Michael



Quoting chelo dona <chelodona at hotmail.com>:

>
> Es muy interesante!
>
> Toda madera resulta de diferente duración y calidad según la luna en
> que se corte, por lo que tengo entendido esto se debe a la cantidad
> de agua que tiene en ese momento. Del mismo modo no da el mismo
> resultado cortarse el pelo o las uñas, o sembrar en distintas lunas.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>



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From idiez at me.com  Tue Nov  1 02:18:59 2011
From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2011 22:18:59 -0400
Subject: ihcequi
Message-ID: <MON.31.OCT.2011.221859.0400.IDIEZ@ME.COM>

Piyali notequixpoyohuan,
	The following is complements of Mary Clayton:

The Nahuatl text is as follows (book 3 p.31):
(original spelling)
"auh ce illamato (quitoa quil ieh in tlacateculotl ipan omixeuh, co^mixiptlati
in jllamato) vmpa motlalito in xochitla, vmpa teycequjaia, auh in izquitl in 
quicequia vel onjiaia icematonaoac, vel inpan onmolonja, onmotecaia 
icematonaoac tlaca, centlalli motecaia yn jiaializ in izquitl." 
 
(standardized spelling)
"auh ce illamato (quitoa quil yeh in tlacatecolotl ipan omixeuh, commixiptlati 
in ilamato) ompa motlalito in xochitla, ompa teicequiaya, auh in izquitl in 
quicequia huel oniyaya icematonahuac, huel impan ommolonia, ommotecaya 
icematonahuac tlaca, centlalli motecaya in iyayaliz in izquitl." 
 
(Dibble and Anderson's English)
"and a little old woman (they said it was thought that the demon appeared as, 
took the form of, the little old woman) came to sit there at xochitlan; there 
she toasted maize.  and the hot maize, as she toasted it, spread its fragance 
the world over. indeed it poured, it extended over the people the world 
over. over the whole land extended the odor of the toasting maize." 


*ihcequi ***
  acocilihcequi , n- (n$acocilihcequi).  I toast shrimp. <p11-acocilin-
    ihcequi>. b.11 f.7 p.64|
  ayohhuachihcequi , n[i]- (n[i]$ayohhuachihcequi).  I parch gourd seeds
    or squash seeds. <p11-ayohtli-achtli-ihcequi>. b.11 f.27 p.288|
  ayohhuachtlahcectli (ayohhuachtlahcectli).  toasted gourd seed.
    <ayohtli-achtli-p51-ihcequi-l2>. b.10 f.4 p.68|
  ihceconi (ihceconi).  something which can be toasted. <ihcequi-lo:1-
    ni1>. b.11 f.7 p.64|
  [i]hcectli , tla- (tla$[i]hcectli).  something toasted. <p51-ihcequi-
    l2>. b.10 f.4 p.65|
  ihcectli =tla (tla[i]hcectli).  cosa tostada, assi como garuanzos,
    pepitas, cacao. &c. <p51-ihcequi-l2>. 71m2-20|
  ihcequi , m[o]- (m[o]$ihcequi).  it is roasted; it is parched; it is
    fired. <p54-ihcequi>. b.11 f.12 p.120|
  ihcequi , qu- (qu-ihcequi).  they roast it; they toast it. <p33-
    ihcequi>. b.2 f.7 p.127|
  ihcequi =nitla (nitlaihcequi).  tostar mayz, vel simile. en comal o en
    sarten. <p11-p51-ihcequi>. 71m1-201|
  ihcequi =nitla=onitlaihcec. huel. onitlahcec (ihcequi
    =nitla=onitlaihcec. huel. onitlahcec).  tostar maiz, o garuanzos en
    comalli. <p11-p51-ihcequi>. 71m2-6|
  ihcequi (ihcequi).  it toasts, it roasts. <ihcequi>. b.11 f.14 p.142|
  ihcequiya , qu- (qu$ihcequia).  she toasted it. <p33-ihcequi-ya3>. b.3
    f.2 p.31|
  ihcequiaya , te- (te$ihcequiaya).  . <p52-ihcequi-ben-ya3>. b.3 f.2 p.31|
  ihcequiz , m[o]- (m[o]$ihcequiz).  it will be roasted. <p54-ihcequi-
    z>. b.11 f.19 p.192|
  nacatlahcectli (nacatlahcectli).  roast meat. <nacatl-p51-ihcequi-l2>.
    b.8 f.2 p.37|
  tlahcectli (tlahcectli).  tostada cosa assi  (assi is tostar mayz, vel
    simile. en comal o en sarten). <p51-ihcequi-l2>. 71m1-201|

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From idiez at me.com  Tue Nov  1 02:50:22 2011
From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2011 22:50:22 -0400
Subject: ihcequi doing it=?windows-1252?Q?=92s_?=applicative thing
Message-ID: <MON.31.OCT.2011.225022.0400.IDIEZ@ME.COM>

Ok Mitsuya and dem?s listeros,
	Half of the temporarily constituted and soon to be dissolved Nahuatl morphology academy here at Notre Dame thinks that perhaps:
1. te-, ?non-specific human object? + ihcequi (intransitive), ?corn toasts or is toasted? + -ia (applicative) + -ya (imperfect tense suffix) = teihcequiaya, ?corn was toasted for people?
2. qui, ?3rd person singular specific object? + ihcequi (transitive), ?to toast something? + ya, (imperfect tense suffix) = quihcequiya, ?she was toasting it?
and the other half is reluctant to make a commitment to a firm decision on the matter.
John
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From hawatari21centuries at gmail.com  Tue Nov  1 11:55:16 2011
From: hawatari21centuries at gmail.com (SASAKI Mitsuya)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 20:55:16 +0900
Subject: ihcequi doing it=?windows-1252?Q?=92s_?=applicative thing
In-Reply-To: <D1B89752-93C8-4043-A9D6-5C9C7015FDB1@me.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.1.NOV.2011.205516.0900.HAWATARI21CENTURIES@GMAIL.COM>

John,

Thanks for the comment and the data.
Now the only remaining problem with this construal is that we have to 
assume two "ihcequi"'s, intransitive and transitive, like "ahci(vt/vi)".
Que chida academia!

Mitsuya SASAKI
The Department of Linguistics, the University of Tokyo
ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp

(2011/11/01 11:50), John Sullivan wrote:
> Ok Mitsuya and dem?s listeros,
> 	Half of the temporarily constituted and soon to be dissolved Nahuatl morphology academy here at Notre Dame thinks that perhaps:
> 1. te-, ?non-specific human object? + ihcequi (intransitive), ?corn toasts or is toasted? + -ia (applicative) + -ya (imperfect tense suffix) = teihcequiaya, ?corn was toasted for people?
> 2. qui, ?3rd person singular specific object? + ihcequi (transitive), ?to toast something? + ya, (imperfect tense suffix) = quihcequiya, ?she was toasting it?
> and the other half is reluctant to make a commitment to a firm decision on the matter.
> John
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl

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From idiez at me.com  Tue Nov  1 13:38:59 2011
From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 09:38:59 -0400
Subject: ihcequi doing it=?windows-1252?Q?=92s_?=applicative thing
In-Reply-To: <4EAFDE24.90604@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.1.NOV.2011.093859.0400.IDIEZ@ME.COM>

Piyali Mitsuya,
	Efectivamente, ihcequi tiene una forma tanto intransitiva [ihcequi (ihcequi).  it toasts, it roasts. <ihcequi>. b.11 f.14 p.142|)]  como transitiva [ihcequi , qu- (qu-ihcequi).  they roast it; they toast it. <p33- ihcequi>. b.2 f.7 p.127|].
	Y s?, ?qu? chido!
John

On Nov 1, 2011, at 7:55 AM, SASAKI Mitsuya wrote:

> John,
> 
> Thanks for the comment and the data.
> Now the only remaining problem with this construal is that we have to assume two "ihcequi"'s, intransitive and transitive, like "ahci(vt/vi)".
> Que chida academia!
> 
> Mitsuya SASAKI
> The Department of Linguistics, the University of Tokyo
> ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp
> 
> (2011/11/01 11:50), John Sullivan wrote:
>> Ok Mitsuya and dem?s listeros,
>> 	Half of the temporarily constituted and soon to be dissolved Nahuatl morphology academy here at Notre Dame thinks that perhaps:
>> 1. te-, ?non-specific human object? + ihcequi (intransitive), ?corn toasts or is toasted? + -ia (applicative) + -ya (imperfect tense suffix) = teihcequiaya, ?corn was toasted for people?
>> 2. qui, ?3rd person singular specific object? + ihcequi (transitive), ?to toast something? + ya, (imperfect tense suffix) = quihcequiya, ?she was toasting it?
>> and the other half is reluctant to make a commitment to a firm decision on the matter.
>> John
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nahuatl mailing list
>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl

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From hawatari21centuries at gmail.com  Tue Nov  1 14:19:42 2011
From: hawatari21centuries at gmail.com (SASAKI Mitsuya)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 23:19:42 +0900
Subject: ihcequi doing it=?windows-1252?Q?=92s_?=applicative thing
In-Reply-To: <9A58E974-D1C6-4C48-BBDF-B436CBADE93A@me.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.1.NOV.2011.231942.0900.HAWATARI21CENTURIES@GMAIL.COM>

John,

Es incre?ble qu? r?pido encuentras los buenos ejemplos.
Entonces, quiz?s podemos decir que ihcequi ten?a dos estructuras 
argumentales distintas. No sab?a que este tema era tan interesante.

Mitsuya SASAKI
The Department of Linguistics, the University of Tokyo
ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp

(2011/11/01 22:38), John Sullivan wrote:
> Piyali Mitsuya,
> 	Efectivamente, ihcequi tiene una forma tanto intransitiva [ihcequi (ihcequi).  it toasts, it roasts.<ihcequi>. b.11 f.14 p.142|)]  como transitiva [ihcequi , qu- (qu-ihcequi).  they roast it; they toast it.<p33- ihcequi>. b.2 f.7 p.127|].
> 	Y s?, ?qu? chido!
> John
>
> On Nov 1, 2011, at 7:55 AM, SASAKI Mitsuya wrote:
>
>> John,
>>
>> Thanks for the comment and the data.
>> Now the only remaining problem with this construal is that we have to assume two "ihcequi"'s, intransitive and transitive, like "ahci(vt/vi)".
>> Que chida academia!
>>
>> Mitsuya SASAKI
>> The Department of Linguistics, the University of Tokyo
>> ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp
>>
>> (2011/11/01 11:50), John Sullivan wrote:
>>> Ok Mitsuya and dem?s listeros,
>>> 	Half of the temporarily constituted and soon to be dissolved Nahuatl morphology academy here at Notre Dame thinks that perhaps:
>>> 1. te-, ?non-specific human object? + ihcequi (intransitive), ?corn toasts or is toasted? + -ia (applicative) + -ya (imperfect tense suffix) = teihcequiaya, ?corn was toasted for people?
>>> 2. qui, ?3rd person singular specific object? + ihcequi (transitive), ?to toast something? + ya, (imperfect tense suffix) = quihcequiya, ?she was toasting it?
>>> and the other half is reluctant to make a commitment to a firm decision on the matter.
>>> John
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nahuatl mailing list
>>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nahuatl mailing list
>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>

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From jdanahuatl at gmail.com  Tue Nov  1 15:36:02 2011
From: jdanahuatl at gmail.com (Jonathan Amith)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 11:36:02 -0400
Subject: ihcequi doing it=?windows-1252?Q?=92s_?=applicative thing
In-Reply-To: <9A58E974-D1C6-4C48-BBDF-B436CBADE93A@me.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.1.NOV.2011.113602.0400.JDANAHUATL@GMAIL.COM>

Dear list members,

I was wondering if ihseki as an intransitive is documented and where.
Best, Jonathan
On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 9:38 AM, John Sullivan <idiez at me.com> wrote:

> Piyali Mitsuya,
>        Efectivamente, ihcequi tiene una forma tanto intransitiva [ihcequi
> (ihcequi).  it toasts, it roasts. <ihcequi>. b.11 f.14 p.142|)]  como
> transitiva [ihcequi , qu- (qu-ihcequi).  they roast it; they toast it.
> <p33- ihcequi>. b.2 f.7 p.127|].
>        Y s?, ?qu? chido!
> John
>
> On Nov 1, 2011, at 7:55 AM, SASAKI Mitsuya wrote:
>
> > John,
> >
> > Thanks for the comment and the data.
> > Now the only remaining problem with this construal is that we have to
> assume two "ihcequi"'s, intransitive and transitive, like "ahci(vt/vi)".
> > Que chida academia!
> >
> > Mitsuya SASAKI
> > The Department of Linguistics, the University of Tokyo
> > ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp
> >
> > (2011/11/01 11:50), John Sullivan wrote:
> >> Ok Mitsuya and dem?s listeros,
> >>      Half of the temporarily constituted and soon to be dissolved
> Nahuatl morphology academy here at Notre Dame thinks that perhaps:
> >> 1. te-, ?non-specific human object? + ihcequi (intransitive), ?corn
> toasts or is toasted? + -ia (applicative) + -ya (imperfect tense suffix) =
> teihcequiaya, ?corn was toasted for people?
> >> 2. qui, ?3rd person singular specific object? + ihcequi (transitive),
> ?to toast something? + ya, (imperfect tense suffix) = quihcequiya, ?she was
> toasting it?
> >> and the other half is reluctant to make a commitment to a firm decision
> on the matter.
> >> John
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Nahuatl mailing list
> >> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> >> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Nahuatl mailing list
> > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>
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From idiez at me.com  Tue Nov  1 16:58:53 2011
From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 12:58:53 -0400
Subject: ihcequi doing it=?windows-1252?Q?=92s_?=applicative thing
In-Reply-To: <D1B89752-93C8-4043-A9D6-5C9C7015FDB1@me.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.1.NOV.2011.125853.0400.IDIEZ@ME.COM>

Mitsuya,

     On the issue of Nahuatl verbs that are both transitive and intransitive, we have others in the same category -- e.g., e:hua, chipa:hua, mela:hua:

    e:hua      she arises
   e:huac     she arose
   que:uh    she raised it

   chipa:hua   it becomes pure
  chipa:huac  it became pure
 quichi:pauh  he purified it

Joe
  (the other half of the soon-to-be-dissolved Nahuatl morphology academy here at Notre Dame) 

On Oct 31, 2011, at 10:50 PM, John Sullivan wrote:

> Ok Mitsuya and dem?s listeros,
> 	Half of the temporarily constituted and soon to be dissolved Nahuatl morphology academy here at Notre Dame thinks that perhaps:
> 1. te-, ?non-specific human object? + ihcequi (intransitive), ?corn toasts or is toasted? + -ia (applicative) + -ya (imperfect tense suffix) = teihcequiaya, ?corn was toasted for people?
> 2. qui, ?3rd person singular specific object? + ihcequi (transitive), ?to toast something? + ya, (imperfect tense suffix) = quihcequiya, ?she was toasting it?
> and the other half is reluctant to make a commitment to a firm decision on the matter.
> John

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From schwallr at potsdam.edu  Tue Nov  1 19:51:22 2011
From: schwallr at potsdam.edu (John F. Schwaller)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 15:51:22 -0400
Subject: CFP - 2nd Annual Nahuatl @ Yale conference
Message-ID: <TUE.1.NOV.2011.155122.0400.SCHWALLR@POTSDAM.EDU>

Nahuatl meeting at Yale

On May 4 and 5, 2012, the Northeastern group of Nahuatl Studies will host a 
conference and workshop at Yale.  The schedule will include advanced Nahuatl 
study, group document translation, and papers by scholars.

The conference will include two sessions.  In one session, scholars will gather 
to work collectively on the translation of documents which will be shared before 
the meeting.  Folks who are working on projects are invited to share their work 
with the group beforehand.  Please contact the organizers if you wish to present 
a document for study.

The second session will include the presentation of papers on aspects of the 
Nahuatl language and linguistics, Nahuatl texts, or Nahua ethnohistory.  
Scholars interested in offering a paper should contact the organizers for inclusion.

The organizers are hoping to also offer a week-long intensive course in Nahuatl 
before the conference.

Please save the date for this coming year's conference and please consider 
participating, with a document for study, with a paper, or simply by attending.  
More details will be forthcoming as plans are made final.

The organizers include:
Caterina Pizzigoni (cp2313 at columbia.edu)
John Sullivan (idiez at me.com)
Louise Burkhart (burk at albany.edu)
John F. Schwaller (schwallr at potsdam.edu)

-- 
*****************************
John F. Schwaller
President
SUNY - Potsdam
44 Pierrepont Ave.
Potsdam, NY  13676
Tel. 315-267-2100
FAX 315-267-2496

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From jdanahuatl at gmail.com  Wed Nov  2 01:39:49 2011
From: jdanahuatl at gmail.com (Jonathan Amith)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 21:39:49 -0400
Subject: ihcequi
In-Reply-To: <20111101210408.uyau0o2utc04osk4@webmail.iu.edu>
Message-ID: <TUE.1.NOV.2011.213949.0400.JDANAHUATL@GMAIL.COM>

Hi Joe,

Thanks so much. An instrantive among many transitives. By the way, in the
Sierra Norte de Puebla there are forms such as chi:wi and a sley of
unexpected (for me) "intransitives"

On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 9:04 PM, Campbell, R. Joe <campbel at indiana.edu>wrote:

> Jonathan,
>
>
>  The following citations are from Dibble and Anderson's edition of the
> Florentine -- b. = book and p. = page.  f. = my file number.
>
> Joe
>
> only on
>
> *ihcequi ***
>  acocilihcequi , n- (n$acocilihcequi).  I toast shrimp. <p11-acocilin-
>   ihcequi>. b.11 f.7 p.64|
>  ayohhuachihcequi , n[i]- (n[i]$ayohhuachihcequi).  I parch gourd seeds
>   or squash seeds. <p11-ayohtli-achtli-ihcequi>. b.11 f.27 p.288|
>  ayohhuachtlahcectli (ayohhuachtlahcectli).  toasted gourd seed.
>   <ayohtli-achtli-p51-ihcequi-**l2>. b.10 f.4 p.68|
>  ihceconi (ihceconi).  something which can be toasted. <ihcequi-lo:1-
>   ni1>. b.11 f.7 p.64|
>  [i]hcectli , tla- (tla$[i]hcectli).  something toasted. <p51-ihcequi-
>   l2>. b.10 f.4 p.65|
>  ihcectli =tla (tla[i]hcectli).  cosa tostada, assi como garuanzos,
>   pepitas, cacao. &c. <p51-ihcequi-l2>. 71m2-20|
>  ihcequi , m[o]- (m[o]$ihcequi).  it is roasted; it is parched; it is
>   fired. <p54-ihcequi>. b.11 f.12 p.120|
>  ihcequi , qu- (qu-ihcequi).  they roast it; they toast it. <p33-
>   ihcequi>. b.2 f.7 p.127|
>  ihcequi =nitla (nitlaihcequi).  tostar mayz, vel simile. en comal o en
>   sarten. <p11-p51-ihcequi>. 71m1-201|
>  ihcequi =nitla=onitlaihcec. huel. onitlahcec (ihcequi
>   =nitla=onitlaihcec. huel. onitlahcec).  tostar maiz, o garuanzos en
>   comalli. <p11-p51-ihcequi>. 71m2-6|
>
>
>  ihcequi (ihcequi).  it toasts, it roasts. <ihcequi>. b.11 f.14 p.142|
>
>
>  ihcequiya , qu- (qu$ihcequia).  she toasted it. <p33-ihcequi-ya3>. b.3
>   f.2 p.31|
>  ihcequiaya , te- (te$ihcequiaya).  . <p52-ihcequi-ben-ya3>. b.3 f.2 p.31|
>  ihcequiz , m[o]- (m[o]$ihcequiz).  it will be roasted. <p54-ihcequi-
>   z>. b.11 f.19 p.192|
>  nacatlahcectli (nacatlahcectli).  roast meat. <nacatl-p51-ihcequi-l2>.
>   b.8 f.2 p.37|
>  tlahcectli (tlahcectli).  tostada cosa assi  (assi is tostar mayz, vel
>   simile. en comal o en sarten). <p51-ihcequi-l2>. 71m1-201|
>
>
>
> ----- End forwarded message -----
>
>
>
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From hawatari21centuries at gmail.com  Wed Nov  2 01:06:24 2011
From: hawatari21centuries at gmail.com (SASAKI Mitsuya)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 10:06:24 +0900
Subject: ihcequi doing it=?windows-1252?Q?=92s_?=applicative thing
In-Reply-To: <CAD_TCBGpdbrj495kd8gV-YsSWeJYr-rcc+9A2_4qAPoToh8OKg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <WED.2.NOV.2011.100624.0900.HAWATARI21CENTURIES@GMAIL.COM>

Piyali Jonathan,

The example of "ihcequi" John presented from FC11 is used as an 
intransitive, though it looks like an anticausative verb, i.e. "to be 
toasted".
Here "ihcequi" is juxtaposed with "mone:loa" (to be mixed) and "moteci" 
(to be ground). "Ihcequi" here is undoubtedly intransitive, but its 
subject seems to be the thing roasted, but not the one who roast it.

The original text is:

  auh injc muchichioa in icequi, yoan moneloa chia~tzotzol: nima~ 
moteci: conj in cocoxquj.
(A&D's Translation: "And it is prepared thus: when roasted and mixed 
with wrinkled _chia_, then  it is ground. The sick one drinks it [in an 
infusion]") (FC 11, A&D p. 142)

Mitsuya SASAKI
The Department of Linguistics, the University of Tokyo
ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp

(2011/11/02 0:36), Jonathan Amith wrote:
> Dear list members,
> I was wondering if ihseki as an intransitive is documented and where.
> Best, Jonathan
> On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 9:38 AM, John Sullivan <idiez at me.com
> <mailto:idiez at me.com>> wrote:
>
>     Piyali Mitsuya,
>             Efectivamente, ihcequi tiene una forma tanto intransitiva
>     [ihcequi (ihcequi).  it toasts, it roasts. <ihcequi>. b.11 f.14
>     p.142|)]  como transitiva [ihcequi , qu- (qu-ihcequi).  they roast
>     it; they toast it. <p33- ihcequi>. b.2 f.7 p.127|].
>             Y s?, ?qu? chido!
>     John
>
>     On Nov 1, 2011, at 7:55 AM, SASAKI Mitsuya wrote:
>
>      > John,
>      >
>      > Thanks for the comment and the data.
>      > Now the only remaining problem with this construal is that we
>     have to assume two "ihcequi"'s, intransitive and transitive, like
>     "ahci(vt/vi)".
>      > Que chida academia!
>      >
>      > Mitsuya SASAKI
>      > The Department of Linguistics, the University of Tokyo
>      > ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp
>     <mailto:ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp>
>      >
>      > (2011/11/01 11:50), John Sullivan wrote:
>      >> Ok Mitsuya and dem?s listeros,
>      >>      Half of the temporarily constituted and soon to be
>     dissolved Nahuatl morphology academy here at Notre Dame thinks that
>     perhaps:
>      >> 1. te-, ?non-specific human object? + ihcequi (intransitive),
>     ?corn toasts or is toasted? + -ia (applicative) + -ya (imperfect
>     tense suffix) = teihcequiaya, ?corn was toasted for people?
>      >> 2. qui, ?3rd person singular specific object? + ihcequi
>     (transitive), ?to toast something? + ya, (imperfect tense suffix) =
>     quihcequiya, ?she was toasting it?
>      >> and the other half is reluctant to make a commitment to a firm
>     decision on the matter.
>      >> John
>      >> _______________________________________________
>      >> Nahuatl mailing list
>      >> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org <mailto:Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>
>      >> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>      >
>      > _______________________________________________
>      > Nahuatl mailing list
>      > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org <mailto:Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>
>      > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     Nahuatl mailing list
>     Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org <mailto:Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>
>     http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>
>

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From hawatari21centuries at gmail.com  Wed Nov  2 01:12:16 2011
From: hawatari21centuries at gmail.com (SASAKI Mitsuya)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 10:12:16 +0900
Subject: ihcequi doing it=?windows-1252?Q?=92s_?=applicative thing
In-Reply-To: <4BE508CF-4372-4BC9-8631-BBFDD306F570@me.com>
Message-ID: <WED.2.NOV.2011.101216.0900.HAWATARI21CENTURIES@GMAIL.COM>

Joe y dem?s listeros,

Thanks for the list.
For the information of other listeros, I'd like to add that the page 212 
in Andrews' book gives a list of some other examples of ambi-transitive 
verbs.

Mitsuya SASAKI
The Department of Linguistics, the University of Tokyo
ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp

(2011/11/02 1:58), John Sullivan wrote:
> Mitsuya,
>
>       On the issue of Nahuatl verbs that are both transitive and intransitive, we have others in the same category -- e.g., e:hua, chipa:hua, mela:hua:
>
>      e:hua      she arises
>     e:huac     she arose
>     que:uh    she raised it
>
>     chipa:hua   it becomes pure
>    chipa:huac  it became pure
>   quichi:pauh  he purified it
>
> Joe
>    (the other half of the soon-to-be-dissolved Nahuatl morphology academy here at Notre Dame)
>
> On Oct 31, 2011, at 10:50 PM, John Sullivan wrote:
>
>> Ok Mitsuya and dem?s listeros,
>> 	Half of the temporarily constituted and soon to be dissolved Nahuatl morphology academy here at Notre Dame thinks that perhaps:
>> 1. te-, ?non-specific human object? + ihcequi (intransitive), ?corn toasts or is toasted? + -ia (applicative) + -ya (imperfect tense suffix) = teihcequiaya, ?corn was toasted for people?
>> 2. qui, ?3rd person singular specific object? + ihcequi (transitive), ?to toast something? + ya, (imperfect tense suffix) = quihcequiya, ?she was toasting it?
>> and the other half is reluctant to make a commitment to a firm decision on the matter.
>> John
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl

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From hawatari21centuries at gmail.com  Wed Nov  2 02:59:31 2011
From: hawatari21centuries at gmail.com (SASAKI Mitsuya)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 11:59:31 +0900
Subject: ihcequi doing it=?windows-1252?Q?=92s_?=applicative thing
In-Reply-To: <CAD_TCBHjU5hduNGx=wjea880wJW04OWLBPk=8Hc2CmtfR3rmXg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <WED.2.NOV.2011.115931.0900.HAWATARI21CENTURIES@GMAIL.COM>

Jonathan,

I found your point on Sierra Norte de Puebla Nahuatl very stimulating. 
We tend to assume that causatives and passives are opposite in nature, 
but sometimes they parallel in that they imply that the denoted 
resulting event is caused by someone other than the matrix subject.

The cross-varietal typology of detransitivization will be a hot topic, 
and there should have been variety even within what's been called 
"Classical Nahuatl". Of course, we can't ignore the Spanish influence 
(e.g. Jorg? Su?rez 1977) and the diachronic loss of polysynthesis.

Mitsuya SASAKI
The Department of Linguistics, the University of Tokyo
ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp

(2011/11/02 11:25), Jonathan Amith wrote:
> There is a whole lot that can be done on transitivity in Nahuatl, though
> I think that valency changes are often somewhat ?language specific?
> considering that Nahuatl is a group of closely related languages with a
> shallow history. Questions of valency reduction, in particular, are not
> very well studied. And even causatives and applicatives are
> understudied, particularly in regard to semantics, as most studies are
> simply morphological in nature. For example, in the Sierra Norte de
> Puebla a causative with a nonreferential human object is used,
> basically, like a ?passive? with a nonreferential agent.
>
> Nitoto:nia yehwa ika niknemilihtok nimote:ta:li:lti:ti pahti.
>
> I have a fever and that?s way I?m thinking about going to get injected
> with medicine (estoy pensando ir para que me apliquen/se me aplique
> medicina)
>
> In the one example of ihseki it is basically an anticausative, thought
> it seems like this might be the only example of this verb so used.
>
> Anyway, in terms of detransitivizing there is also a whole range of
> strategies, particularly with verbs like ihseki that imply some degree
> of agentivity.
>
> Reflexively marked:Note in Balsas Nahuatl nochi:wa, notsakwa
>
> a > i:Note in Sierra Norte de Pueblachi:wi, tsakwi
>
> use of ?tok as a stative or resultative:Note in Balsas
>
> kweptok (it is different)In Sierra Norte de Puebla there is kwepi, not
> found in Balsas
>
> a:ntok it is adjoining
>
> The anticausative in the modern Nahuatl that I know, however, cannot
> express the agent obliquely whereas with the antipassive the patient can
> be obliquely expressed:
>
> nontlate:mo:s ika nowa:kax?I will go searching the plains for my cattle?
>
> cf.nikontehte:mo:s nowa:kaxsimilar though the first example focuses more
> on the event itself.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 9:03 PM, SASAKI Mitsuya
> <hawatari21centuries at gmail.com <mailto:hawatari21centuries at gmail.com>>
> wrote:
>
>     Piyali Jonathan,
>
>     The example of "ihcequi" John presented from FC11 is used as an
>     intransitive, though it looks like an anticausative verb, i.e. "to
>     be toasted".
>     Here "ihcequi" is juxtaposed with "mone:loa" (to be mixed) and
>     "moteci" (to be ground). "Ihcequi" here is undoubtedly intransitive,
>     but its subject seems to be the thing roasted, but not the one who
>     roast it.
>
>     The original text is:
>
>       auh injc muchichioa in icequi, yoan moneloa chia~tzotzol: nima~
>     moteci: conj in cocoxquj.
>     (A&D's Translation: "And it is prepared thus: when roasted and mixed
>     with wrinkled _chia_, then  it is ground. The sick one drinks it [in
>     an infusion]") (FC 11, A&D p. 142)
>
>
>     Mitsuya SASAKI
>     The Department of Linguistics, the University of Tokyo
>     ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.__jp
>     <mailto:ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp>
>
>     (2011/11/02 0:36), Jonathan Amith wrote:
>
>         Dear list members,
>         I was wondering if ihseki as an intransitive is documented and
>         where.
>         Best, Jonathan
>         On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 9:38 AM, John Sullivan <idiez at me.com
>         <mailto:idiez at me.com>
>         <mailto:idiez at me.com <mailto:idiez at me.com>>> wrote:
>
>             Piyali Mitsuya,
>                     Efectivamente, ihcequi tiene una forma tanto
>         intransitiva
>             [ihcequi (ihcequi).  it toasts, it roasts. <ihcequi>. b.11 f.14
>             p.142|)]  como transitiva [ihcequi , qu- (qu-ihcequi).  they
>         roast
>             it; they toast it. <p33- ihcequi>. b.2 f.7 p.127|].
>                     Y s?, ?qu? chido!
>             John
>
>             On Nov 1, 2011, at 7:55 AM, SASAKI Mitsuya wrote:
>
>          > John,
>          >
>          > Thanks for the comment and the data.
>          > Now the only remaining problem with this construal is that we
>             have to assume two "ihcequi"'s, intransitive and transitive,
>         like
>         "ahci(vt/vi)".
>          > Que chida academia!
>          >
>          > Mitsuya SASAKI
>          > The Department of Linguistics, the University of Tokyo
>          > ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.__jp
>         <mailto:ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp>
>         <mailto:ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-__tokyo.ac.jp
>         <mailto:ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp>>
>
>          >
>          > (2011/11/01 11:50), John Sullivan wrote:
>          >> Ok Mitsuya and dem?s listeros,
>          >>      Half of the temporarily constituted and soon to be
>             dissolved Nahuatl morphology academy here at Notre Dame
>         thinks that
>             perhaps:
>          >> 1. te-, ?non-specific human object? + ihcequi (intransitive),
>             ?corn toasts or is toasted? + -ia (applicative) + -ya (imperfect
>             tense suffix) = teihcequiaya, ?corn was toasted for people?
>          >> 2. qui, ?3rd person singular specific object? + ihcequi
>             (transitive), ?to toast something? + ya, (imperfect tense
>         suffix) =
>             quihcequiya, ?she was toasting it?
>          >> and the other half is reluctant to make a commitment to a firm
>             decision on the matter.
>          >> John
>          >> _________________________________________________
>          >> Nahuatl mailing list
>          >> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org <mailto:Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>
>         <mailto:Nahuatl at lists.famsi.__org <mailto:Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>>
>
>          >> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/__listinfo/nahuatl
>         <http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl>
>          >
>          > _________________________________________________
>          > Nahuatl mailing list
>          > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org <mailto:Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>
>         <mailto:Nahuatl at lists.famsi.__org <mailto:Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>>
>
>          > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/__listinfo/nahuatl
>         <http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl>
>
>             _________________________________________________
>             Nahuatl mailing list
>         Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org <mailto:Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>
>         <mailto:Nahuatl at lists.famsi.__org <mailto:Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>>
>         http://www.famsi.org/mailman/__listinfo/nahuatl
>         <http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl>
>
>
>
>

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From campbel at indiana.edu  Wed Nov  2 01:04:08 2011
From: campbel at indiana.edu (Campbell, R. Joe)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 21:04:08 -0400
Subject: Fwd: ihcequi
Message-ID: <TUE.1.NOV.2011.210408.0400.CAMPBEL@INDIANA.EDU>

Jonathan,


  The following citations are from Dibble and Anderson's edition of the 
Florentine -- b. = book and p. = page.  f. = my file number.

Joe

only on

*ihcequi ***
  acocilihcequi , n- (n$acocilihcequi).  I toast shrimp. <p11-acocilin-
    ihcequi>. b.11 f.7 p.64|
  ayohhuachihcequi , n[i]- (n[i]$ayohhuachihcequi).  I parch gourd seeds
    or squash seeds. <p11-ayohtli-achtli-ihcequi>. b.11 f.27 p.288|
  ayohhuachtlahcectli (ayohhuachtlahcectli).  toasted gourd seed.
    <ayohtli-achtli-p51-ihcequi-l2>. b.10 f.4 p.68|
  ihceconi (ihceconi).  something which can be toasted. <ihcequi-lo:1-
    ni1>. b.11 f.7 p.64|
  [i]hcectli , tla- (tla$[i]hcectli).  something toasted. <p51-ihcequi-
    l2>. b.10 f.4 p.65|
  ihcectli =tla (tla[i]hcectli).  cosa tostada, assi como garuanzos,
    pepitas, cacao. &c. <p51-ihcequi-l2>. 71m2-20|
  ihcequi , m[o]- (m[o]$ihcequi).  it is roasted; it is parched; it is
    fired. <p54-ihcequi>. b.11 f.12 p.120|
  ihcequi , qu- (qu-ihcequi).  they roast it; they toast it. <p33-
    ihcequi>. b.2 f.7 p.127|
  ihcequi =nitla (nitlaihcequi).  tostar mayz, vel simile. en comal o en
    sarten. <p11-p51-ihcequi>. 71m1-201|
  ihcequi =nitla=onitlaihcec. huel. onitlahcec (ihcequi
    =nitla=onitlaihcec. huel. onitlahcec).  tostar maiz, o garuanzos en
    comalli. <p11-p51-ihcequi>. 71m2-6|


  ihcequi (ihcequi).  it toasts, it roasts. <ihcequi>. b.11 f.14 p.142|


  ihcequiya , qu- (qu$ihcequia).  she toasted it. <p33-ihcequi-ya3>. b.3
    f.2 p.31|
  ihcequiaya , te- (te$ihcequiaya).  . <p52-ihcequi-ben-ya3>. b.3 f.2 p.31|
  ihcequiz , m[o]- (m[o]$ihcequiz).  it will be roasted. <p54-ihcequi-
    z>. b.11 f.19 p.192|
  nacatlahcectli (nacatlahcectli).  roast meat. <nacatl-p51-ihcequi-l2>.
    b.8 f.2 p.37|
  tlahcectli (tlahcectli).  tostada cosa assi  (assi is tostar mayz, vel
    simile. en comal o en sarten). <p51-ihcequi-l2>. 71m1-201|



----- End forwarded message -----


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From jdanahuatl at gmail.com  Wed Nov  2 13:50:24 2011
From: jdanahuatl at gmail.com (Jonathan Amith)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 09:50:24 -0400
Subject: ihcequi doing it=?windows-1252?Q?=92s_?=applicative thing
In-Reply-To: <4EAFFFFE.30902@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <WED.2.NOV.2011.095024.0400.JDANAHUATL@GMAIL.COM>

Hi Mitsuya (is that correct),



What is your area of study. I'm sort of disconnected. In central Guerrero
there is a lot of relexification but the morphosyntax is not as affected.
In the Sierra Norte de Puebla there is a type of language ideology of
purity that leads to all sorts of calques and invented terms. Thus from
Spanish "me sale" (it turns out for me, as in "no me sale", it doesn't give
me results) SNP has ne:chki:sa ! Likewise yowi is "transitivized" as
ne:chyahki "me fue" as in "me fue bien") and tikwi is reflexively marked
though an intransitive motikwi a calque from Spanish "se prende". These are
all quite old. In Guerrero young kids start to say "nimoto:ka:"  verbal
morphology on the noun stem to:ka:- for 'me llamo'. In SNP they say
nimono:tsa.



Likewise tla-/ta- is being used differently. Young kids in Oapan say
tlakiawi (maybe a little different than kiawi indicating a place that has a
lot of rain rather than the event itself) and tlamomowi  'to be scared (in
a place). In SNP one finds mono:tsa 'it is called (person, object) and
motano:tsa 'it is called (a place such as a village)'.



Reflexively marked bodily function verbs in SNP that beging with ihC retain
or lose the /o/ of the reflexive depending on the nature of the event



ihso:ta   (never expressed without an object)

mihso:ta   'to throw up'

moihso:ta  'to throw up on oneself'

kihso:ta     'to throw up [e.g., blood]

kihso:ta    'to throw up on [e.g., a person]



Verbs that are V1/V2 with no morphological change show a lot of different
types of relations



ahsi (V1) vs. ahsi (V2) are quite different 'to arrive (there) [vs. ehko]
and 'to catch' (an object thrown, a prisoner fleeing)



posteki (V1) vs. posteki (V2) 'to break' (sth long and brittle, like a rod
or tree branch) can be a real intransitive with a patientive S of V1 but no
implied agentivity, i.e., sth can just break with no volitional agentivity.
This is what Dixon in his book on valency change refers to as
ambitransitive.



Balsas:

to:ka (V1)  vs. -to:ka  (V2)  the 'intransitive 'to:ka' has a culturally
specified meaning of 'to plant maize' and in Balsas can never take tla-
(but can take te:- with the sense of 'to bury'). In SNP one has tato:ka
with the meaning of 'to plant maize'.  In Balsas then, absence of tla- is
culturally specific. Tuggy has talked about tla- as culturally specified
object (e.g., in Balsas o:tlapilo:to is understood outside of any defining
context as 'he went to fish (hanging lines from stakes in the river) and
there is some literature on the culturally specific meaning of these types
of "antipassives" Thus English 'I am eating' has a culturally specified
meaning of "a meal"



ihseki (V1) vs. ihseki  (V2) this is more the case, as you note, of an
implied agent. In Nahuatl agents of passives can never be expressed
obliquely (whereas objects of antipassives can be! at least in Balsas, with
ika). So I am not sure whether one is best to characterize this an an
anticausative or an agentless passive. Any thoughts?  It is different from
the case in posteki as ihseki can never occur without human intervention.
In a way it is like SNP chi:wi though without the morphological derivation.



Amberber in the book by Dixon and Aikhenvald notes, p. 315: "If an event
encoded by a transitive predicate can be conceptualized as taking place
without the intervention of an external causer, the event can be cast in
the anticausative"  Since ihseki cannot occur in this manner, then perhaps
your use of anticausative is different than that implied by Amberber (and
Levin and Rappaport, whom he cites).



Cf. notsakwa in Balsas. It can be passive or anticausative

niman notsakwas ka:mpa o:timotek 'the place/cut where you cut yourself will
heal (close up) rapidly'   No agent

ma notsakwa  'let it be closed' (a door, e.g, a group of people is leaving
and I say ma notsakwa as a suggestion about the door or window but without
an overtly expressed agent)

On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 10:19 AM, SASAKI Mitsuya <
hawatari21centuries at gmail.com> wrote:

> John,
>
> Es incre?ble qu? r?pido encuentras los buenos ejemplos.
> Entonces, quiz?s podemos decir que ihcequi ten?a dos estructuras
> argumentales distintas. No sab?a que este tema era tan interesante.
>
>
> Mitsuya SASAKI
> The Department of Linguistics, the University of Tokyo
> ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.**jp <ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp>
>
> (2011/11/01 22:38), John Sullivan wrote:
>
>> Piyali Mitsuya,
>>        Efectivamente, ihcequi tiene una forma tanto intransitiva [ihcequi
>> (ihcequi).  it toasts, it roasts.<ihcequi>. b.11 f.14 p.142|)]  como
>> transitiva [ihcequi , qu- (qu-ihcequi).  they roast it; they toast it.<p33-
>> ihcequi>. b.2 f.7 p.127|].
>>        Y s?, ?qu? chido!
>> John
>>
>> On Nov 1, 2011, at 7:55 AM, SASAKI Mitsuya wrote:
>>
>>  John,
>>>
>>> Thanks for the comment and the data.
>>> Now the only remaining problem with this construal is that we have to
>>> assume two "ihcequi"'s, intransitive and transitive, like "ahci(vt/vi)".
>>> Que chida academia!
>>>
>>> Mitsuya SASAKI
>>> The Department of Linguistics, the University of Tokyo
>>> ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.**jp <ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp>
>>>
>>> (2011/11/01 11:50), John Sullivan wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ok Mitsuya and dem?s listeros,
>>>>        Half of the temporarily constituted and soon to be dissolved
>>>> Nahuatl morphology academy here at Notre Dame thinks that perhaps:
>>>> 1. te-, ?non-specific human object? + ihcequi (intransitive), ?corn
>>>> toasts or is toasted? + -ia (applicative) + -ya (imperfect tense suffix) =
>>>> teihcequiaya, ?corn was toasted for people?
>>>> 2. qui, ?3rd person singular specific object? + ihcequi (transitive),
>>>> ?to toast something? + ya, (imperfect tense suffix) = quihcequiya, ?she was
>>>> toasting it?
>>>> and the other half is reluctant to make a commitment to a firm decision
>>>> on the matter.
>>>> John
>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>> Nahuatl mailing list
>>>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>>>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/**listinfo/nahuatl<http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl>
>>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>> Nahuatl mailing list
>>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/**listinfo/nahuatl<http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl>
>>>
>>
>>
> ______________________________**_________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/**listinfo/nahuatl<http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl>
>
_______________________________________________
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Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
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From hawatari21centuries at gmail.com  Wed Nov  2 17:01:11 2011
From: hawatari21centuries at gmail.com (SASAKI Mitsuya)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 02:01:11 +0900
Subject: ihcequi doing it=?windows-1252?Q?=92s_?=applicative thing
In-Reply-To: <CAD_TCBEeUV5o+=4pfrkpDPgX5iKbmxh20349iYKXvoGj02b64A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <THU.3.NOV.2011.020111.0900.HAWATARI21CENTURIES@GMAIL.COM>

Jonathan,

Thanks. Your point made me realize that I was quite unconscious about 
the difference between the two, the anticausative and the agentless passive.

Among the various kinds of V1/V2 relations you illustrated, the relation 
between ihseki(Vt)/ihseki(Vi) looks similar to, as you noted, those in 
the Balsas examples of TLA-less intransitivization, with backgrounded 
(perhaps culturally specified) agent.

Maybe corresponding to this, Molina's dictionary has hui:tecqui "one who 
beats" (from hui:tequi "to beat, azotar") for the translation of 
"herido", as if hui:tequi were an intransitive verb "to be beaten", but 
I'm not sure if I can say this is another example of ihcequi-type V1/V2 
alternation.

Mitsuya SASAKI
The Department of Linguistics, the University of Tokyo
ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp

(As for me I should confess that I've only dealt with Classical Nahuatl 
data so far, and now am trying to get in touch with a modern speaker...)

(2011/11/02 22:50), Jonathan Amith wrote:
> Hi Mitsuya (is that correct),
>
> What is your area of study. I'm sort of disconnected. In central
> Guerrero there is a lot of relexification but the morphosyntax is not as
> affected. In the Sierra Norte de Puebla there is a type of language
> ideology of purity that leads to all sorts of calques and invented
> terms. Thus from Spanish "me sale" (it turns out for me, as in "no me
> sale", it doesn't give me results) SNP has ne:chki:sa ! Likewise yowi is
> "transitivized" as ne:chyahki "me fue" as in "me fue bien") and tikwi is
> reflexively marked though an intransitive motikwi a calque from Spanish
> "se prende". These are all quite old. In Guerrero young kids start to
> say "nimoto:ka:"  verbal morphology on the noun stem to:ka:- for 'me
> llamo'. In SNP they say nimono:tsa.
>
> Likewise tla-/ta- is being used differently. Young kids in Oapan say
> tlakiawi (maybe a little different than kiawi indicating a place that
> has a lot of rain rather than the event itself) and tlamomowi 'to be
> scared (in a place). In SNP one finds mono:tsa 'it is called (person,
> object) and motano:tsa 'it is called (a place such as a village)'.
>
> Reflexively marked bodily function verbs in SNP that beging with ihC
> retain or lose the /o/ of the reflexive depending on the nature of the event
>
> ihso:ta   (never expressed without an object)
>
> mihso:ta 'to throw up'
>
> moihso:ta 'to throw up on oneself'
>
> kihso:ta 'to throw up [e.g., blood]
>
> kihso:ta 'to throw up on [e.g., a person]
>
> Verbs that are V1/V2 with no morphological change show a lot of
> different types of relations
>
> ahsi (V1) vs. ahsi (V2) are quite different 'to arrive (there) [vs.
> ehko] and 'to catch' (an object thrown, a prisoner fleeing)
>
> posteki (V1) vs. posteki (V2) 'to break' (sth long and brittle, like a
> rod or tree branch) can be a real intransitive with a patientive S of V1
> but no implied agentivity, i.e., sth can just break with no volitional
> agentivity. This is what Dixon in his book on valency change refers to
> as ambitransitive.
>
> Balsas:
>
> to:ka (V1)  vs. -to:ka  (V2)  the 'intransitive 'to:ka' has a culturally
> specified meaning of 'to plant maize' and in Balsas can never take tla-
> (but can take te:- with the sense of 'to bury'). In SNP one has tato:ka
> with the meaning of 'to plant maize'.  In Balsas then, absence of tla-
> is culturally specific. Tuggy has talked about tla- as culturally
> specified object (e.g., in Balsas o:tlapilo:to is understood outside of
> any defining context as 'he went to fish (hanging lines from stakes in
> the river) and there is some literature on the culturally specific
> meaning of these types of "antipassives" Thus English 'I am eating' has
> a culturally specified meaning of "a meal"
>
> ihseki (V1) vs. ihseki  (V2) this is more the case, as you note, of an
> implied agent. In Nahuatl agents of passives can never be expressed
> obliquely (whereas objects of antipassives can be! at least in Balsas,
> with ika). So I am not sure whether one is best to characterize this an
> an anticausative or an agentless passive. Any thoughts?  It is different
> from the case in posteki as ihseki can never occur without human
> intervention. In a way it is like SNP chi:wi though without the
> morphological derivation.
>
> Amberber in the book by Dixon and Aikhenvald notes, p. 315: "If an event
> encoded by a transitive predicate can be conceptualized as taking place
> without the intervention of an external causer, the event can be cast in
> the anticausative"  Since ihseki cannot occur in this manner, then
> perhaps your use of anticausative is different than that implied by
> Amberber (and Levin and Rappaport, whom he cites).
>
> Cf. notsakwa in Balsas. It can be passive or anticausative
>
> niman notsakwas ka:mpa o:timotek 'the place/cut where you cut yourself
> will heal (close up) rapidly'   No agent
>
> ma notsakwa 'let it be closed' (a door, e.g, a group of people is
> leaving and I say ma notsakwa as a suggestion about the door or window
> but without an overtly expressed agent)
>
> On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 10:19 AM, SASAKI Mitsuya
> <hawatari21centuries at gmail.com <mailto:hawatari21centuries at gmail.com>>
> wrote:
>
>     John,
>
>     Es incre?ble qu? r?pido encuentras los buenos ejemplos.
>     Entonces, quiz?s podemos decir que ihcequi ten?a dos estructuras
>     argumentales distintas. No sab?a que este tema era tan interesante.
>
>
>     Mitsuya SASAKI
>     The Department of Linguistics, the University of Tokyo
>     ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.__jp
>     <mailto:ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp>
>
>     (2011/11/01 22:38), John Sullivan wrote:
>
>         Piyali Mitsuya,
>                 Efectivamente, ihcequi tiene una forma tanto
>         intransitiva [ihcequi (ihcequi).  it toasts, it
>         roasts.<ihcequi>. b.11 f.14 p.142|)]  como transitiva [ihcequi ,
>         qu- (qu-ihcequi).  they roast it; they toast it.<p33- ihcequi>.
>         b.2 f.7 p.127|].
>                 Y s?, ?qu? chido!
>         John
>
>         On Nov 1, 2011, at 7:55 AM, SASAKI Mitsuya wrote:
>
>             John,
>
>             Thanks for the comment and the data.
>             Now the only remaining problem with this construal is that
>             we have to assume two "ihcequi"'s, intransitive and
>             transitive, like "ahci(vt/vi)".
>             Que chida academia!
>
>             Mitsuya SASAKI
>             The Department of Linguistics, the University of Tokyo
>             ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.__jp
>             <mailto:ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp>
>
>             (2011/11/01 11:50), John Sullivan wrote:
>
>                 Ok Mitsuya and dem?s listeros,
>                         Half of the temporarily constituted and soon to
>                 be dissolved Nahuatl morphology academy here at Notre
>                 Dame thinks that perhaps:
>                 1. te-, ?non-specific human object? + ihcequi
>                 (intransitive), ?corn toasts or is toasted? + -ia
>                 (applicative) + -ya (imperfect tense suffix) =
>                 teihcequiaya, ?corn was toasted for people?
>                 2. qui, ?3rd person singular specific object? + ihcequi
>                 (transitive), ?to toast something? + ya, (imperfect
>                 tense suffix) = quihcequiya, ?she was toasting it?
>                 and the other half is reluctant to make a commitment to
>                 a firm decision on the matter.
>                 John
>                 _________________________________________________
>                 Nahuatl mailing list
>                 Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org <mailto:Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>
>                 http://www.famsi.org/mailman/__listinfo/nahuatl
>                 <http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl>
>
>
>             _________________________________________________
>             Nahuatl mailing list
>             Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org <mailto:Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>
>             http://www.famsi.org/mailman/__listinfo/nahuatl
>             <http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl>
>
>
>
>     _________________________________________________
>     Nahuatl mailing list
>     Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org <mailto:Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>
>     http://www.famsi.org/mailman/__listinfo/nahuatl
>     <http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl>
>
>

_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From jdanahuatl at gmail.com  Wed Nov  2 17:37:30 2011
From: jdanahuatl at gmail.com (Jonathan Amith)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 13:37:30 -0400
Subject: ihcequi doing it=?windows-1252?Q?=92s_?=applicative thing
In-Reply-To: <4EB17757.40203@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <WED.2.NOV.2011.133730.0400.JDANAHUATL@GMAIL.COM>

Hi,

I couldn't find uitecqui in my version of Molina. R?mi Sim?on has uitecqui
as "golpeado, fustigado, corregido, castigado" and has uitequi as a
transitive.

There are some transitives nominalized without object slots filled by a
nonreferential (te:-, tla-, ne-), though perhaps there are other analyses.

Thus ti:tlantli (cf. ti:tlani; though the passive would seem to be ti:tlano
and an alternative is ti:tlanoni 'mensajero').

Also ichtecqui "ladr?n", which may follow a pattern of wi:tequi.  RS lists
ichtequi as both intransitive and transitive. Note RS's applicative form,
used reflexively as 'convertirse en ladr?n'.
There are other verbs that have unusual transitivity patterns, e.g, mati.

best, jonathan
On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 1:01 PM, SASAKI Mitsuya <
hawatari21centuries at gmail.com> wrote:

> Jonathan,
>
> Thanks. Your point made me realize that I was quite unconscious about the
> difference between the two, the anticausative and the agentless passive.
>
> Among the various kinds of V1/V2 relations you illustrated, the relation
> between ihseki(Vt)/ihseki(Vi) looks similar to, as you noted, those in the
> Balsas examples of TLA-less intransitivization, with backgrounded (perhaps
> culturally specified) agent.
>
> Maybe corresponding to this, Molina's dictionary has hui:tecqui "one who
> beats" (from hui:tequi "to beat, azotar") for the translation of "herido",
> as if hui:tequi were an intransitive verb "to be beaten", but I'm not sure
> if I can say this is another example of ihcequi-type V1/V2 alternation.
>
>
> Mitsuya SASAKI
> The Department of Linguistics, the University of Tokyo
> ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.**jp <ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp>
>
> (As for me I should confess that I've only dealt with Classical Nahuatl
> data so far, and now am trying to get in touch with a modern speaker...)
>
>
> (2011/11/02 22:50), Jonathan Amith wrote:
>
>> Hi Mitsuya (is that correct),
>>
>> What is your area of study. I'm sort of disconnected. In central
>> Guerrero there is a lot of relexification but the morphosyntax is not as
>> affected. In the Sierra Norte de Puebla there is a type of language
>> ideology of purity that leads to all sorts of calques and invented
>> terms. Thus from Spanish "me sale" (it turns out for me, as in "no me
>> sale", it doesn't give me results) SNP has ne:chki:sa ! Likewise yowi is
>> "transitivized" as ne:chyahki "me fue" as in "me fue bien") and tikwi is
>> reflexively marked though an intransitive motikwi a calque from Spanish
>> "se prende". These are all quite old. In Guerrero young kids start to
>> say "nimoto:ka:"  verbal morphology on the noun stem to:ka:- for 'me
>> llamo'. In SNP they say nimono:tsa.
>>
>> Likewise tla-/ta- is being used differently. Young kids in Oapan say
>> tlakiawi (maybe a little different than kiawi indicating a place that
>> has a lot of rain rather than the event itself) and tlamomowi 'to be
>> scared (in a place). In SNP one finds mono:tsa 'it is called (person,
>> object) and motano:tsa 'it is called (a place such as a village)'.
>>
>> Reflexively marked bodily function verbs in SNP that beging with ihC
>> retain or lose the /o/ of the reflexive depending on the nature of the
>> event
>>
>> ihso:ta   (never expressed without an object)
>>
>> mihso:ta 'to throw up'
>>
>> moihso:ta 'to throw up on oneself'
>>
>> kihso:ta 'to throw up [e.g., blood]
>>
>> kihso:ta 'to throw up on [e.g., a person]
>>
>> Verbs that are V1/V2 with no morphological change show a lot of
>> different types of relations
>>
>> ahsi (V1) vs. ahsi (V2) are quite different 'to arrive (there) [vs.
>> ehko] and 'to catch' (an object thrown, a prisoner fleeing)
>>
>> posteki (V1) vs. posteki (V2) 'to break' (sth long and brittle, like a
>> rod or tree branch) can be a real intransitive with a patientive S of V1
>> but no implied agentivity, i.e., sth can just break with no volitional
>> agentivity. This is what Dixon in his book on valency change refers to
>> as ambitransitive.
>>
>> Balsas:
>>
>> to:ka (V1)  vs. -to:ka  (V2)  the 'intransitive 'to:ka' has a culturally
>> specified meaning of 'to plant maize' and in Balsas can never take tla-
>> (but can take te:- with the sense of 'to bury'). In SNP one has tato:ka
>> with the meaning of 'to plant maize'.  In Balsas then, absence of tla-
>> is culturally specific. Tuggy has talked about tla- as culturally
>> specified object (e.g., in Balsas o:tlapilo:to is understood outside of
>> any defining context as 'he went to fish (hanging lines from stakes in
>> the river) and there is some literature on the culturally specific
>> meaning of these types of "antipassives" Thus English 'I am eating' has
>> a culturally specified meaning of "a meal"
>>
>> ihseki (V1) vs. ihseki  (V2) this is more the case, as you note, of an
>> implied agent. In Nahuatl agents of passives can never be expressed
>> obliquely (whereas objects of antipassives can be! at least in Balsas,
>> with ika). So I am not sure whether one is best to characterize this an
>> an anticausative or an agentless passive. Any thoughts?  It is different
>> from the case in posteki as ihseki can never occur without human
>> intervention. In a way it is like SNP chi:wi though without the
>> morphological derivation.
>>
>> Amberber in the book by Dixon and Aikhenvald notes, p. 315: "If an event
>> encoded by a transitive predicate can be conceptualized as taking place
>> without the intervention of an external causer, the event can be cast in
>> the anticausative"  Since ihseki cannot occur in this manner, then
>> perhaps your use of anticausative is different than that implied by
>> Amberber (and Levin and Rappaport, whom he cites).
>>
>> Cf. notsakwa in Balsas. It can be passive or anticausative
>>
>> niman notsakwas ka:mpa o:timotek 'the place/cut where you cut yourself
>> will heal (close up) rapidly'   No agent
>>
>> ma notsakwa 'let it be closed' (a door, e.g, a group of people is
>> leaving and I say ma notsakwa as a suggestion about the door or window
>> but without an overtly expressed agent)
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 10:19 AM, SASAKI Mitsuya
>> <hawatari21centuries at gmail.com <mailto:hawatari21centuries@**gmail.com<hawatari21centuries at gmail.com>
>> >>
>>
>> wrote:
>>
>>    John,
>>
>>    Es incre?ble qu? r?pido encuentras los buenos ejemplos.
>>    Entonces, quiz?s podemos decir que ihcequi ten?a dos estructuras
>>    argumentales distintas. No sab?a que este tema era tan interesante.
>>
>>
>>    Mitsuya SASAKI
>>    The Department of Linguistics, the University of Tokyo
>>    ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac._**_jp
>>    <mailto:ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-**tokyo.ac.jp<ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp>
>> >
>>
>>
>>    (2011/11/01 22:38), John Sullivan wrote:
>>
>>        Piyali Mitsuya,
>>                Efectivamente, ihcequi tiene una forma tanto
>>        intransitiva [ihcequi (ihcequi).  it toasts, it
>>        roasts.<ihcequi>. b.11 f.14 p.142|)]  como transitiva [ihcequi ,
>>        qu- (qu-ihcequi).  they roast it; they toast it.<p33- ihcequi>.
>>        b.2 f.7 p.127|].
>>                Y s?, ?qu? chido!
>>        John
>>
>>        On Nov 1, 2011, at 7:55 AM, SASAKI Mitsuya wrote:
>>
>>            John,
>>
>>            Thanks for the comment and the data.
>>            Now the only remaining problem with this construal is that
>>            we have to assume two "ihcequi"'s, intransitive and
>>            transitive, like "ahci(vt/vi)".
>>            Que chida academia!
>>
>>            Mitsuya SASAKI
>>            The Department of Linguistics, the University of Tokyo
>>            ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac._**_jp
>>            <mailto:ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-**tokyo.ac.jp<ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp>
>> >
>>
>>
>>            (2011/11/01 11:50), John Sullivan wrote:
>>
>>                Ok Mitsuya and dem?s listeros,
>>                        Half of the temporarily constituted and soon to
>>                be dissolved Nahuatl morphology academy here at Notre
>>                Dame thinks that perhaps:
>>                1. te-, ?non-specific human object? + ihcequi
>>                (intransitive), ?corn toasts or is toasted? + -ia
>>                (applicative) + -ya (imperfect tense suffix) =
>>                teihcequiaya, ?corn was toasted for people?
>>                2. qui, ?3rd person singular specific object? + ihcequi
>>                (transitive), ?to toast something? + ya, (imperfect
>>                tense suffix) = quihcequiya, ?she was toasting it?
>>                and the other half is reluctant to make a commitment to
>>                a firm decision on the matter.
>>                John
>>                ______________________________**___________________
>>                Nahuatl mailing list
>>                Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org <mailto:Nahuatl at lists.famsi.**org<Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>
>> >
>>                http://www.famsi.org/mailman/_**_listinfo/nahuatl<http://www.famsi.org/mailman/__listinfo/nahuatl>
>>                <http://www.famsi.org/mailman/**listinfo/nahuatl<http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl>
>> >
>>
>>
>>            ______________________________**___________________
>>            Nahuatl mailing list
>>            Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org <mailto:Nahuatl at lists.famsi.**org<Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>
>> >
>>            http://www.famsi.org/mailman/_**_listinfo/nahuatl<http://www.famsi.org/mailman/__listinfo/nahuatl>
>>            <http://www.famsi.org/mailman/**listinfo/nahuatl<http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl>
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>    ______________________________**___________________
>>    Nahuatl mailing list
>>    Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org <mailto:Nahuatl at lists.famsi.**org<Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>
>> >
>>    http://www.famsi.org/mailman/_**_listinfo/nahuatl<http://www.famsi.org/mailman/__listinfo/nahuatl>
>>    <http://www.famsi.org/mailman/**listinfo/nahuatl<http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl>
>> >
>>
>>
>>
> ______________________________**_________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/**listinfo/nahuatl<http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl>
>
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From schwallr at potsdam.edu  Wed Nov  2 18:05:00 2011
From: schwallr at potsdam.edu (John F. Schwaller)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 14:05:00 -0400
Subject: ihcequi doing it=?windows-1252?Q?=92s_?=applicative thing
In-Reply-To: <CAD_TCBEsuVvgLjQ7x8MKk+1eNgNU050_mAEPVdHYxbY+gCzpjg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <WED.2.NOV.2011.140500.0400.SCHWALLR@POTSDAM.EDU>

Could it possibly be lurking as uiuitequi - nite - apalear a otro  ??? f. 158 of 
Molina

On 11/2/2011 1:37 PM, Jonathan Amith wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I couldn't find uitecqui in my version of Molina. R?mi Sim?on has uitecqui
> as "golpeado, fustigado, corregido, castigado" and has uitequi as a
> transitive.
>

-- 
*****************************
John F. Schwaller
President
SUNY - Potsdam
44 Pierrepont Ave.
Potsdam, NY  13676
Tel. 315-267-2100
FAX 315-267-2496

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From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx  Wed Nov  2 18:11:32 2011
From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 12:11:32 -0600
Subject: ihcequi doing it's applicative thing
In-Reply-To: <4BE508CF-4372-4BC9-8631-BBFDD306F570@me.com>
Message-ID: <WED.2.NOV.2011.121132.0600.DCWRIGHT@PRODIGY.NET.MX>

Greetings, all.

I was looking at a similar case with my students the day before yesterday,
chica:hua (long vowel courtesy of Frances Karttunen's dictionary), and was
wondering why the intransitive and transitive forms have different preterite
forms (intransitive with the preterite suffix -c, transitive with loss of
final vowel). In effect, the intransitive variant is a class 1 verb, while
the transitive variant is class 2. The following entries are from Molina's
*Vocabulario en lengua mexicana y castellana*. As you can see, chica:hua
follows exactly the same pattern as e:hua and chipa:hua.

"Chicaua. ni. arreziar o tomar fuer?as, o hazerse viejo el hombre o la
bestia. pret[?rito]. onichicauac.

"Chicaua. nitla. fortalecer o guarnecer algo, y esfor?ar y animar.
pre[t?rito]. onitlachicauh.

"Chicaua. nite. esfor?ar a otro. pr[et?rito] onitechicauh."

Best regards,

David

-----Mensaje original-----
De: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org [mailto:nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org]
En nombre de John Sullivan
Enviado el: martes, 01 de noviembre de 2011 10:59
Para: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
Asunto: Re: [Nahuat-l] ihcequi doing it?s applicative thing

Mitsuya,

     On the issue of Nahuatl verbs that are both transitive and
intransitive, we have others in the same category -- e.g., e:hua, chipa:hua,
mela:hua:

    e:hua      she arises
   e:huac     she arose
   que:uh    she raised it

   chipa:hua   it becomes pure
  chipa:huac  it became pure
 quichi:pauh  he purified it

Joe
  (the other half of the soon-to-be-dissolved Nahuatl morphology academy
here at Notre Dame) 

[...]

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From clayton at indiana.edu  Wed Nov  2 18:33:49 2011
From: clayton at indiana.edu (Clayton, Mary L.)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 14:33:49 -0400
Subject: ihcequi doing it?s applicative thing
In-Reply-To: <CAD_TCBEsuVvgLjQ7x8MKk+1eNgNU050_mAEPVdHYxbY+gCzpjg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <WED.2.NOV.2011.143349.0400.CLAYTON@INDIANA.EDU>

Hello All,
     Vitecqui appears as a Nahuatl equivalent of Herido in Molina 1555 
folio 138v and in the first half of 1571 folio 70v2.

    Mary

Quoting Jonathan Amith <jdanahuatl at gmail.com>:

> Hi,
>
> I couldn't find uitecqui in my version of Molina. R?mi Sim?on has uitecqui
> as "golpeado, fustigado, corregido, castigado" and has uitequi as a
> transitive.
>
> There are some transitives nominalized without object slots filled by a
> nonreferential (te:-, tla-, ne-), though perhaps there are other analyses.
>
> Thus ti:tlantli (cf. ti:tlani; though the passive would seem to be ti:tlano
> and an alternative is ti:tlanoni 'mensajero').
>
> Also ichtecqui "ladr?n", which may follow a pattern of wi:tequi.  RS lists
> ichtequi as both intransitive and transitive. Note RS's applicative form,
> used reflexively as 'convertirse en ladr?n'.
> There are other verbs that have unusual transitivity patterns, e.g, mati.
>
> best, jonathan
> On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 1:01 PM, SASAKI Mitsuya <
> hawatari21centuries at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Jonathan,
>>
>> Thanks. Your point made me realize that I was quite unconscious about the
>> difference between the two, the anticausative and the agentless passive.
>>
>> Among the various kinds of V1/V2 relations you illustrated, the relation
>> between ihseki(Vt)/ihseki(Vi) looks similar to, as you noted, those in the
>> Balsas examples of TLA-less intransitivization, with backgrounded (perhaps
>> culturally specified) agent.
>>
>> Maybe corresponding to this, Molina's dictionary has hui:tecqui "one who
>> beats" (from hui:tequi "to beat, azotar") for the translation of "herido",
>> as if hui:tequi were an intransitive verb "to be beaten", but I'm not sure
>> if I can say this is another example of ihcequi-type V1/V2 alternation.
>>
>>
>> Mitsuya SASAKI
>> The Department of Linguistics, the University of Tokyo
>> ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.**jp <ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp>
>>
>> (As for me I should confess that I've only dealt with Classical Nahuatl
>> data so far, and now am trying to get in touch with a modern speaker...)
>>
>>
>> (2011/11/02 22:50), Jonathan Amith wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Mitsuya (is that correct),
>>>
>>> What is your area of study. I'm sort of disconnected. In central
>>> Guerrero there is a lot of relexification but the morphosyntax is not as
>>> affected. In the Sierra Norte de Puebla there is a type of language
>>> ideology of purity that leads to all sorts of calques and invented
>>> terms. Thus from Spanish "me sale" (it turns out for me, as in "no me
>>> sale", it doesn't give me results) SNP has ne:chki:sa ! Likewise yowi is
>>> "transitivized" as ne:chyahki "me fue" as in "me fue bien") and tikwi is
>>> reflexively marked though an intransitive motikwi a calque from Spanish
>>> "se prende". These are all quite old. In Guerrero young kids start to
>>> say "nimoto:ka:"  verbal morphology on the noun stem to:ka:- for 'me
>>> llamo'. In SNP they say nimono:tsa.
>>>
>>> Likewise tla-/ta- is being used differently. Young kids in Oapan say
>>> tlakiawi (maybe a little different than kiawi indicating a place that
>>> has a lot of rain rather than the event itself) and tlamomowi 'to be
>>> scared (in a place). In SNP one finds mono:tsa 'it is called (person,
>>> object) and motano:tsa 'it is called (a place such as a village)'.
>>>
>>> Reflexively marked bodily function verbs in SNP that beging with ihC
>>> retain or lose the /o/ of the reflexive depending on the nature of the
>>> event
>>>
>>> ihso:ta   (never expressed without an object)
>>>
>>> mihso:ta 'to throw up'
>>>
>>> moihso:ta 'to throw up on oneself'
>>>
>>> kihso:ta 'to throw up [e.g., blood]
>>>
>>> kihso:ta 'to throw up on [e.g., a person]
>>>
>>> Verbs that are V1/V2 with no morphological change show a lot of
>>> different types of relations
>>>
>>> ahsi (V1) vs. ahsi (V2) are quite different 'to arrive (there) [vs.
>>> ehko] and 'to catch' (an object thrown, a prisoner fleeing)
>>>
>>> posteki (V1) vs. posteki (V2) 'to break' (sth long and brittle, like a
>>> rod or tree branch) can be a real intransitive with a patientive S of V1
>>> but no implied agentivity, i.e., sth can just break with no volitional
>>> agentivity. This is what Dixon in his book on valency change refers to
>>> as ambitransitive.
>>>
>>> Balsas:
>>>
>>> to:ka (V1)  vs. -to:ka  (V2)  the 'intransitive 'to:ka' has a culturally
>>> specified meaning of 'to plant maize' and in Balsas can never take tla-
>>> (but can take te:- with the sense of 'to bury'). In SNP one has tato:ka
>>> with the meaning of 'to plant maize'.  In Balsas then, absence of tla-
>>> is culturally specific. Tuggy has talked about tla- as culturally
>>> specified object (e.g., in Balsas o:tlapilo:to is understood outside of
>>> any defining context as 'he went to fish (hanging lines from stakes in
>>> the river) and there is some literature on the culturally specific
>>> meaning of these types of "antipassives" Thus English 'I am eating' has
>>> a culturally specified meaning of "a meal"
>>>
>>> ihseki (V1) vs. ihseki  (V2) this is more the case, as you note, of an
>>> implied agent. In Nahuatl agents of passives can never be expressed
>>> obliquely (whereas objects of antipassives can be! at least in Balsas,
>>> with ika). So I am not sure whether one is best to characterize this an
>>> an anticausative or an agentless passive. Any thoughts?  It is different
>>> from the case in posteki as ihseki can never occur without human
>>> intervention. In a way it is like SNP chi:wi though without the
>>> morphological derivation.
>>>
>>> Amberber in the book by Dixon and Aikhenvald notes, p. 315: "If an event
>>> encoded by a transitive predicate can be conceptualized as taking place
>>> without the intervention of an external causer, the event can be cast in
>>> the anticausative"  Since ihseki cannot occur in this manner, then
>>> perhaps your use of anticausative is different than that implied by
>>> Amberber (and Levin and Rappaport, whom he cites).
>>>
>>> Cf. notsakwa in Balsas. It can be passive or anticausative
>>>
>>> niman notsakwas ka:mpa o:timotek 'the place/cut where you cut yourself
>>> will heal (close up) rapidly'   No agent
>>>
>>> ma notsakwa 'let it be closed' (a door, e.g, a group of people is
>>> leaving and I say ma notsakwa as a suggestion about the door or window
>>> but without an overtly expressed agent)
>>>
>>> On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 10:19 AM, SASAKI Mitsuya
>>> <hawatari21centuries at gmail.com
>>> <mailto:hawatari21centuries@**gmail.com<hawatari21centuries at gmail.com>
>>> >>
>>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>    John,
>>>
>>>    Es incre?ble qu? r?pido encuentras los buenos ejemplos.
>>>    Entonces, quiz?s podemos decir que ihcequi ten?a dos estructuras
>>>    argumentales distintas. No sab?a que este tema era tan interesante.
>>>
>>>
>>>    Mitsuya SASAKI
>>>    The Department of Linguistics, the University of Tokyo
>>>    ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac._**_jp
>>>
>>> <mailto:ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-**tokyo.ac.jp<ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp>
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>    (2011/11/01 22:38), John Sullivan wrote:
>>>
>>>        Piyali Mitsuya,
>>>                Efectivamente, ihcequi tiene una forma tanto
>>>        intransitiva [ihcequi (ihcequi).  it toasts, it
>>>        roasts.<ihcequi>. b.11 f.14 p.142|)]  como transitiva [ihcequi ,
>>>        qu- (qu-ihcequi).  they roast it; they toast it.<p33- ihcequi>.
>>>        b.2 f.7 p.127|].
>>>                Y s?, ?qu? chido!
>>>        John
>>>
>>>        On Nov 1, 2011, at 7:55 AM, SASAKI Mitsuya wrote:
>>>
>>>            John,
>>>
>>>            Thanks for the comment and the data.
>>>            Now the only remaining problem with this construal is that
>>>            we have to assume two "ihcequi"'s, intransitive and
>>>            transitive, like "ahci(vt/vi)".
>>>            Que chida academia!
>>>
>>>            Mitsuya SASAKI
>>>            The Department of Linguistics, the University of Tokyo
>>>            ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac._**_jp
>>>
>>> <mailto:ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-**tokyo.ac.jp<ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp>
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>            (2011/11/01 11:50), John Sullivan wrote:
>>>
>>>                Ok Mitsuya and dem?s listeros,
>>>                        Half of the temporarily constituted and soon to
>>>                be dissolved Nahuatl morphology academy here at Notre
>>>                Dame thinks that perhaps:
>>>                1. te-, ?non-specific human object? + ihcequi
>>>                (intransitive), ?corn toasts or is toasted? + -ia
>>>                (applicative) + -ya (imperfect tense suffix) =
>>>                teihcequiaya, ?corn was toasted for people?
>>>                2. qui, ?3rd person singular specific object? + ihcequi
>>>                (transitive), ?to toast something? + ya, (imperfect
>>>                tense suffix) = quihcequiya, ?she was toasting it?
>>>                and the other half is reluctant to make a commitment to
>>>                a firm decision on the matter.
>>>                John
>>>                ______________________________**___________________
>>>                Nahuatl mailing list
>>>                Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>>> <mailto:Nahuatl at lists.famsi.**org<Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>
>>> >
>>>
>>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/_**_listinfo/nahuatl<http://www.famsi.org/mailman/__listinfo/nahuatl>
>>>
>>> <http://www.famsi.org/mailman/**listinfo/nahuatl<http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl>
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>            ______________________________**___________________
>>>            Nahuatl mailing list
>>>            Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>>> <mailto:Nahuatl at lists.famsi.**org<Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>
>>> >
>>>
>>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/_**_listinfo/nahuatl<http://www.famsi.org/mailman/__listinfo/nahuatl>
>>>
>>> <http://www.famsi.org/mailman/**listinfo/nahuatl<http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl>
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>    ______________________________**___________________
>>>    Nahuatl mailing list
>>>    Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>>> <mailto:Nahuatl at lists.famsi.**org<Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org>
>>> >
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>>> <http://www.famsi.org/mailman/**listinfo/nahuatl<http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl>
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> ______________________________**_________________
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From jdanahuatl at gmail.com  Wed Nov  2 20:21:41 2011
From: jdanahuatl at gmail.com (Jonathan Amith)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 16:21:41 -0400
Subject: ihcequi doing it=?windows-1252?Q?=92s_?=applicative thing
In-Reply-To: <4EB1864C.7050303@potsdam.edu>
Message-ID: <WED.2.NOV.2011.162141.0400.JDANAHUATL@GMAIL.COM>

Yes, that is there, but he mentioned a deverbal form uitecqui, which is
what I can't find.

On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 2:05 PM, John F. Schwaller <schwallr at potsdam.edu>wrote:

> Could it possibly be lurking as uiuitequi - nite - apalear a otro  ??? f.
> 158 of Molina
>
>
> On 11/2/2011 1:37 PM, Jonathan Amith wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I couldn't find uitecqui in my version of Molina. R?mi Sim?on has uitecqui
>> as "golpeado, fustigado, corregido, castigado" and has uitequi as a
>> transitive.
>>
>>
> --
> *****************************
> John F. Schwaller
> President
> SUNY - Potsdam
> 44 Pierrepont Ave.
> Potsdam, NY  13676
> Tel. 315-267-2100
> FAX 315-267-2496
>
>
> ______________________________**_________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/**listinfo/nahuatl<http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl>
>
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From idiez at me.com  Thu Nov  3 01:13:55 2011
From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 21:13:55 -0400
Subject: ihcequi doing it=?windows-1252?Q?=92s_?=applicative thing
In-Reply-To: <CAD_TCBH0k4dGtJk091ZhydPb2K3924MmL=NeExBWDo7siXbQWA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <WED.2.NOV.2011.211355.0400.IDIEZ@ME.COM>

Jonathan and/or Mitsuya,
	Can you explain the concept of anticausative?
John

On Nov 2, 2011, at 4:21 PM, Jonathan Amith wrote:

> Yes, that is there, but he mentioned a deverbal form uitecqui, which is
> what I can't find.
> 
> On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 2:05 PM, John F. Schwaller <schwallr at potsdam.edu>wrote:
> 
>> Could it possibly be lurking as uiuitequi - nite - apalear a otro  ??? f.
>> 158 of Molina
>> 
>> 
>> On 11/2/2011 1:37 PM, Jonathan Amith wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> I couldn't find uitecqui in my version of Molina. R?mi Sim?on has uitecqui
>>> as "golpeado, fustigado, corregido, castigado" and has uitequi as a
>>> transitive.
>>> 
>>> 
>> --
>> *****************************
>> John F. Schwaller
>> President
>> SUNY - Potsdam
>> 44 Pierrepont Ave.
>> Potsdam, NY  13676
>> Tel. 315-267-2100
>> FAX 315-267-2496
>> 
>> 
>> ______________________________**_________________
>> Nahuatl mailing list
>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/**listinfo/nahuatl<http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl>
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl

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From jdanahuatl at gmail.com  Thu Nov  3 01:55:38 2011
From: jdanahuatl at gmail.com (Jonathan Amith)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 21:55:38 -0400
Subject: ihcequi doing it=?windows-1252?Q?=92s_?=applicative thing
In-Reply-To: <9F635483-B497-48B9-8806-F2C46E7895BD@me.com>
Message-ID: <WED.2.NOV.2011.215538.0400.JDANAHUATL@GMAIL.COM>

Hi, Mitsuya might be able to better than I.

There are certain valency increasing and valency decreasing mechanisms. The
most common valency increasing devices are causatives and applicatives (the
term aplicativo was first used, I think, by Carochi in fact, in reference
to Nahuatl). The causative generally moves a subject of an intransitive to
the object of a transitive and introduces a "causer"  for the transitive:
     nicho:ka >  ne:chcho:ktia
An applicative introduces a new argument, often a benefactive or
malefactive, although other semantic roles are possible (source,
destination, experiencer).

Terminology might vary. I think that Beth Levin refers to certain
alternations (break/break) as causative alternations, for example, others
might refer to these by other terms. At any rate, the semantics of the
variation are often argument specific. An example I used in my Nahuatl class
                      I broke my promise    ? My promise broke
                      ?I broke my voice       My voice broke
                      I broke the vase          The vase broke

For valency reducing devices common ones are the antipassive and
anticausative, passives.

Amberber in the book by Dixon and Aikhenvald (Changing Valency) notes, p.
315: "If an event encoded by a transitive predicate can be conceptualized
as taking place without the intervention of an external causer, the event
can be cast in the anticausative"  This is in reference to Amharic. Since
ihseki cannot occur in this manner, then perhaps your use of anticausative
is different than that implied by Amberber (and Levin and Rappaport, whom
he cites).

So, for example, something can close by itself, e.g., a wound, but in
Nahuatl (Balsas) there is no intransitive to mark this type of event. (In
Sierra Norte de Puebla there is). Thus in Balsas
A           notsakwas ka:mpa o:timotek   (your cut will heal/close up)
B           diki tihka:hte:was hko:n pwe:rtah, notsakwas  (if you leave the
door like that when you leave, it'll close [e.g. by the wind]
C           A-- hko:n?   B-- Ka:yoweh, ma notsakwa.  A-- Like this?  B--
No, it should be closed (in this case a door behind one, someone closing it)

So the reflexive marker can have a lot of different implications.  Maybe 1,
2, 3 above indicate different degrees of agentivity (none, wind
[inanimate], animate). I guess in Amberber's perspective B is more like an
anticausative as it can take place without the intervention of an external
causer, though A could also be so considered. I really would need to look
into how people have talked about these things. I really think that people
might differ on this, but the general idea is that a transitive is used
intransitively (often with a derivational affix) and no Agent is stated or
implied. A passive might have no stated agent (indeed in Nahuatl passives
cannot express an agent (cf. English. The ball was punctured and The ball
was punctured by John).

As for antipassives, this is another valency reducing device. In the
typical case an Agent of a Transitive becomes the Subject of an
Intransitive. With ergative languages this is clear as the subject of
intransitives are marked differently than the agents of transitives. With
nominative accusative languages such as English, some consider
constructions such as I eat to be an intransitive. But since Subject of
intransitive and Agent of transitives are marked the same, there is more
discussion here than with a language such as Mayan.

Nevertheless, in Nahuatl tla- does seem to be used, at least in Balsas, as
an antipassive marker since the object can be expressed obliquely with ika.

                       nihkwa:s yetl                   I will eat beans
(yetl is the object)
                       nitlakwa:s ika yetl           I will have a meal
with beans.




On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 9:13 PM, John Sullivan <idiez at me.com> wrote:

> Jonathan and/or Mitsuya,
>        Can you explain the concept of anticausative?
> John
>
> On Nov 2, 2011, at 4:21 PM, Jonathan Amith wrote:
>
> > Yes, that is there, but he mentioned a deverbal form uitecqui, which is
> > what I can't find.
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 2:05 PM, John F. Schwaller <schwallr at potsdam.edu
> >wrote:
> >
> >> Could it possibly be lurking as uiuitequi - nite - apalear a otro  ???
> f.
> >> 158 of Molina
> >>
> >>
> >> On 11/2/2011 1:37 PM, Jonathan Amith wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi,
> >>>
> >>> I couldn't find uitecqui in my version of Molina. R?mi Sim?on has
> uitecqui
> >>> as "golpeado, fustigado, corregido, castigado" and has uitequi as a
> >>> transitive.
> >>>
> >>>
> >> --
> >> *****************************
> >> John F. Schwaller
> >> President
> >> SUNY - Potsdam
> >> 44 Pierrepont Ave.
> >> Potsdam, NY  13676
> >> Tel. 315-267-2100
> >> FAX 315-267-2496
> >>
> >>
> >> ______________________________**_________________
> >> Nahuatl mailing list
> >> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> >> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/**listinfo/nahuatl<
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl>
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Nahuatl mailing list
> > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
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>
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From hawatari21centuries at gmail.com  Thu Nov  3 01:38:59 2011
From: hawatari21centuries at gmail.com (SASAKI Mitsuya)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 10:38:59 +0900
Subject: ihcequi doing it=?windows-1252?Q?=92s_?=applicative thing
In-Reply-To: <9F635483-B497-48B9-8806-F2C46E7895BD@me.com>
Message-ID: <THU.3.NOV.2011.103859.0900.HAWATARI21CENTURIES@GMAIL.COM>

Jonathan,
The example of huitecqui I found is the one Mary mentioned, f.70v in the 
Spanish-Nahuatl part of Molina 1571.

John and Jonathan,
I've thought that we were using "anticausative" in the same way as Dixon 
& Aikhenvald's (2000) _Changing Valency: Case Studies of Transitivity_. 
They characterized anticausative as a derivation "where the S of the 
derived verb corresponds to the underlying O, and there is no marker of 
(or implication of the existence of) underlying A" (p.7).
Am I correct in this, Jonathan?

Mitsuya SASAKI
The Department of Linguistics, the University of Tokyo
ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp

(2011/11/03 10:13), John Sullivan wrote:
> Jonathan and/or Mitsuya,
> 	Can you explain the concept of anticausative?
> John
>
> On Nov 2, 2011, at 4:21 PM, Jonathan Amith wrote:
>
>> Yes, that is there, but he mentioned a deverbal form uitecqui, which is
>> what I can't find.
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 2:05 PM, John F. Schwaller<schwallr at potsdam.edu>wrote:
>>
>>> Could it possibly be lurking as uiuitequi - nite - apalear a otro  ??? f.
>>> 158 of Molina
>>>
>>>
>>> On 11/2/2011 1:37 PM, Jonathan Amith wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I couldn't find uitecqui in my version of Molina. R?mi Sim?on has uitecqui
>>>> as "golpeado, fustigado, corregido, castigado" and has uitequi as a
>>>> transitive.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> --
>>> *****************************
>>> John F. Schwaller
>>> President
>>> SUNY - Potsdam
>>> 44 Pierrepont Ave.
>>> Potsdam, NY  13676
>>> Tel. 315-267-2100
>>> FAX 315-267-2496
>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>> Nahuatl mailing list
>>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/**listinfo/nahuatl<http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl>
>>>
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From lovegren at buffalo.edu  Thu Nov  3 01:56:05 2011
From: lovegren at buffalo.edu (Jesse Lovegren)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 21:56:05 -0400
Subject: ihcequi doing it=?windows-1252?Q?=92s_?=applicative thing
In-Reply-To: <9F635483-B497-48B9-8806-F2C46E7895BD@me.com>
Message-ID: <WED.2.NOV.2011.215605.0400.LOVEGREN@BUFFALO.EDU>

Hi Listeros,
  I think the term anticausative has always confused me because it would
seem that it mgiht be coined off an analogy with antipassive, but it's a
different kind of "anti-".
  An antipassive is, like a passive, a valence-reduced form of a normally
transitive verb, but instead of the notional A argument being demoted (as
in a passive), the O argument is demoted. So in a basic transitive clause,
both A and O are core arguments. In passive, the erstwhile A is expressed
as an oblique or not at all, and in antipassive the O is likewise demoted.
  The anticausative is the opposite of the causative in a different way. In
a causative, valence is increased, and the causer of an action is
introduced as a subject argument, the original arguments being demoted (A/S
demoted to O, O demoted to oblique, usually). Causatives introduce a causer
which could not have been inferred otherwise. Anticausatives do the
opposite thing. Instead of increasing valence, they decrease it. The
underlying verb would normally be transitive, and erstwhile O is promoted
to S, and erstwhile A is not expressed at all. And instead of introducing
an effector as causatives do, they introduce the implication that there is
no causer, while in the basic transitive form the A argument would normally
be understood as the causer. I think the standard view is that the
implication of agentlessness sets anticausatives apart from agentless
passives.
  So if I were encountering Spanish for the first time, and I found two
agentless expressions

(1) La ventana estuvo quebrada
(2) La ventana se quebr?

  I might check whether it is possible to add some kind of adjunct which
reinforces the agentlessness of the action, e.g. see if I can have my
consultant agree that it's acceptable to say something like (3), or check
in my corpus whether (1) ever gets used in a situation where the agent can
be clearly inferred.

(3) "?De la nada la ventana estuvo quebrada"

  [I am attaching a diagram from p.7 of Dixon&Aikhenvald's "Changing
Valency"]

On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 9:13 PM, John Sullivan <idiez at me.com> wrote:

> Jonathan and/or Mitsuya,
>        Can you explain the concept of anticausative?
> John
>
> On Nov 2, 2011, at 4:21 PM, Jonathan Amith wrote:
>
> > Yes, that is there, but he mentioned a deverbal form uitecqui, which is
> > what I can't find.
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 2:05 PM, John F. Schwaller <schwallr at potsdam.edu
> >wrote:
> >
> >> Could it possibly be lurking as uiuitequi - nite - apalear a otro  ???
> f.
> >> 158 of Molina
> >>
> >>
> >> On 11/2/2011 1:37 PM, Jonathan Amith wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi,
> >>>
> >>> I couldn't find uitecqui in my version of Molina. R?mi Sim?on has
> uitecqui
> >>> as "golpeado, fustigado, corregido, castigado" and has uitequi as a
> >>> transitive.
> >>>
> >>>
> >> --
> >> *****************************
> >> John F. Schwaller
> >> President
> >> SUNY - Potsdam
> >> 44 Pierrepont Ave.
> >> Potsdam, NY  13676
> >> Tel. 315-267-2100
> >> FAX 315-267-2496
> >>
> >>
> >> ______________________________**_________________
> >> Nahuatl mailing list
> >> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> >> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/**listinfo/nahuatl<
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl>
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Nahuatl mailing list
> > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>
>


-- 
Jesse Lovegren
University at Buffalo
Department of Linguistics
645 Baldy Hall
office +1 716 645 0136
cell +1 716 352 3643
text +1 830 266 9399
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From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx  Thu Nov  3 02:18:28 2011
From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 20:18:28 -0600
Subject: Tunas and purslane
Message-ID: <WED.2.NOV.2011.201828.0600.DCWRIGHT@PRODIGY.NET.MX>

Estimados listeros:

 

Has anyone seen the word tenochtli associated with a specific species of
Opuntia in colonial or modern texts? (Other than the IB-UNAM edition of
Francisco Hern?ndez?s botanical treatise, that is.)

 

How about colonial or modern Nahuatl words for purslane (verdolaga,
Portulaca oleracea)? I have Sahag?n?s itzmiquilitl (book 11, chapter 7,
paragraph 3, folio 287r), which probably refers to this species (the
association of the drawing and the gloss on f. 286r are probably in error,
considering the descriptions in Spanish and Nahuatl). I also found itzmitl
for ?verdolaga? in Mat?as and Medina?s dictionary of the modern Nahuatl
variety spoken in Acatl?n.

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

Saludos,

 

David

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From campbel at indiana.edu  Fri Nov  4 03:41:34 2011
From: campbel at indiana.edu (Campbell, R. Joe)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 23:41:34 -0400
Subject: ihcequi doing it?s applicative thing
Message-ID: <THU.3.NOV.2011.234134.0400.CAMPBEL@INDIANA.EDU>

Mitzuya,

   Andrews lists one of our verbs of interest under the topic of
"valence-neutral" verbstems -- ahci.  He points out that
"valence-neutral" verbstems
can be either transitive or intransitive.  This passage is interesting, but
I found myself disagreeing with some specific statements, particularly
in #24.2.1 and #24.2.2, where he claims that the verbs discussed can
have an applicative or causative meaning.

   I would assume that ahci, toca, temiqui, etc., simply function as
either intransitive or transitive verbs, so I don't see that claiming
the applicative or causative function adds to our understanding.

   However, my understanding of a particular problem certainly
benefitted from re-reading this passage.  Molina lists "huitecqui" as
'herido' and, since I thought of "huitequi" as being only a transitive
verb, I expected an object prefix.  I discussed the problem with a
colleague (a member of the just-dissolved Nahuatl morphology academy 
that functioned at Notre Dame until recently).  We didn't arrive at a 
definite conclusion, but I would suggest that Andrews' intransitive 
"huitequi" provides the answer:

   nitehuitequi       I whip someone
   nihuitequi         I experience whipping

   tehuitecqui        s.o. who has been whipped (by s.o. else)
   huitecqui          s.o. who has experienced whipping (no implied agent)

Joe



>>
>>       On the issue of Nahuatl verbs that are both transitive and
>> intransitive, we have others in the same category -- e.g., e:hua,
>> chipa:hua, mela:hua:
>>
>>      e:hua      she arises
>>     e:huac     she arose
>>     que:uh    she raised it
>>
>>     chipa:hua   it becomes pure
>>    chipa:huac  it became pure
>>   quichi:pauh  he purified it
>>
>>


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From cuecuex at gmail.com  Fri Nov  4 07:22:02 2011
From: cuecuex at gmail.com (roberto romero)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 01:22:02 -0600
Subject: Tunas and purslane
In-Reply-To: <006301cc9a5b$bde86fd0$39b94f70$@net.mx>
Message-ID: <FRI.4.NOV.2011.012202.0600.CUECUEX@GMAIL.COM>

Hola David  y demas foristas

Envi? el siguiente ?rollito?  sobre el Tenochtli donde espero
encuentren algo ?til,  en la bibliograf?a que buscas sobre el
Tenochtli   para lo bot?nico la informaci?n esta en la parte II del
presente texto.

Tenochtli, s?mbolo religioso y de un tipo de sacrificio , de fundaci?n
de pueblos por la v?a de la conquista ,  de identidad ?tnica y de una
ciudad.

La imagen del Tenochtli creo yo es un s?mbolo que sirve para indicar
no solo una ciudad determinada M?xico Tenochtitlan sino de forma mas
gen?rica sirvi? como s?mbolo para indicar la fundaci?n de un pueblo
pues lo encontramos no s?lo en la fundaci?n de Tenochtitlan, ver la
imagen varias fuentes,  sino tambi?n en la fundaci?n por los otomies y
sus guachichiles amigos  del pueblo de San Juan del R?o en lo que hoy
es el estado de Durango .

Y sabemos que esta ?ltima fundaci?n fue precedida de la conquista y el
exterminio de los chichimecas  opuestos a los esclavistas espa?oles,
exterminio logrado mediante el concurso de las tropas otom?es  y de
los guachichiles amigos todos bajo el mando del cacique otomie de
Xilotepec con el pomposo nombre de Don Pedro Mart?n del Toro.

De los datos anteriores el Tenochtli resulta ser  un s?mbolo de
fundaci?n de una poblaci?n mediante la v?a de la conquista militar y
el exterminio de los originales pobladores. Algo as? debio haber
sucedido en donde se fundo Mexico Tenochtitlan, sus originales
pobladores,  posiblemente otomies,  fueron no s?lo echados de sus
tierras sino aniquilados, exterminados y borrados de la historia .

La imagen del Tenochtli como un conjunto simb?lico que une a un  nopal
con un ?guila  parada sobre el nopal y que atrapa a una serpiente no
solo aparece en el mito de los chichimecas mexicas o de los colhuas
mexicas, los mal llamados aztecas .

Creo que como ocurri? con el nombre de M?xico, de igual forma  los
chichimecas mexicas tomaron el mito de los otomies

Mas a?n los chichimecas mexicas eran quiz?s culturalmente otomies.
Ixtlixochitl dice que sus idioma natural no era el nahuatl y en la
Relaci?n de Coatepec  de 1582 se dice que dicho lugar fue conquistado
por los colhuas y por los chichimecas mexicas  y que unos hablaban
nahuatl y los otros s?lo un lenguaje chichimeca

El mismo conjunto simb?lico usado por los mexicas para representar al
Tenochtli aparece en un documento de manufactura otom? s?lo que ah? la
serpiente aparece adem?s herida por una flecha o por un dardo o
venablo.

 La imagen del Tenochtli  se pinta al lado de donde se ilustra el
combate entre el jefe chichimeca  Mazad?n  y el jefe otom?e Pedro
Mart?n del Toro, combate en donde resulta muerto Mazadin, el cacique
chichimeca .

Esta imagen del Tenochtli la puedes ver en la l?mina 2 del Memorial de
Pedro Mart?n del Toro,  editado, paleografiado y publicado hace a?os
por el gobierno del Estado de Quer?taro en una muy buena edici?n
preparada por un joven investigador afincado en M?xico que ya entonces
promet?a mucho y que tu debes conocer bien.

Este investigador de iniciales D. W.   interpreta el s?mbolo del
Tenochtli como s?mbolo de un acto de sacrificio de corazones para
alimentar el sol y con ello los otom?es como portadores de una
religi?n solar  o con el culto al sol como soporte estructural de la
religi?n de esos otom?es de la regi?n de Xilotepec.

Por art?culos mas recientes parece que hasta la fecha ese investigador
sostiene la misma opini?n.

Tenochtli tiene  entre los Colhuas Mexicas  un significado esot?rico y
religioso el cual puedes ver en la  Cr?nica Mexicayotl del historiador
ind?gena Tezozomoc Folios 88 a 94 , p. 62 a 67 en la edici?n de la
UNAM con texto nahua y dos traducciones distintas del nahuatl al
espa?ol.

El Tenochtli se nos presenta aqu? como un nopal divino, un Teo
Nochtli, pues  dicho nopal es una planta divina que germin? de la
semilla divina que a su vez era el Coraz?n del brujo Copil, un ser
divino pues era nada menos que el sobrino del dios Huitzilpochtli e
hijo  de Malinalxoch,  la hermana del mis?gino y machista dios
Huitzilopochtli que a la ?nica mujer que quiere es a su mama, La
Cihuacoatl o la Coatlicue, seg?n la versi?n de la religi?n colhua
mexica , pues Huitzilopochtli se la pasa peleando e incluso matando a
sus hermanas, recuerdese el triste destino de la Coyotl Xauhqui.

Brotando del cuerpo de Copil se ve al nopal divino al Tenochtli en el
c?dice Azcatitla, respetando la ortograf?a original del documento y no
la moderna ortograf?a del nahuatl . La L?mina donde aparece brotando
el Tenochtli del centro del cuerpo de Copil es la l?mina XIII del
citado c?dice Azcatitla que se puede consultar en las Obras Completas
de Barlow Tomo V

Im?genes similares de nopales que brotan del centro de un cuerpo lo
puedes ver en el c?dice Borgia  y arqueol?gicamente en Tula , en las
alfardas del sitio Zapata Ver Iconoghraf?a de Tula El caso de la
escultura de Elizabeth Jimenez INAH  fig 114 y 115 p 264 y 265

Brotando el Tenochtli de la fauce de una deidad  que se halla tendida
en el suelo  se le puede ver en la parte trasera del llamado Teocalli
de la guerra Sagrada, ?nica representaci?n escult?rica de
Huitzilopochtli que existe de ese dios de acuerdo a la Doctora Yolotl
Gonzales.

Aunque ah? en ese Teocalli de la? la imagen de  Huitzilopochtli no muy
tradicional pues aparece cojo de un pie como lo es la imagen t?pica
del dios Tezcatlipoca. En una de esa no es Huitzilopochtli quien se
represent? en dicha escultura

Imagenes e interpretaci?nes  de dicho pieza escult?rica  se pueden
leer en Alfonso Caso El Teocalli de la Guerra Sagrada : Descripci?n de
la Parte posterior del Monumento p 72  Obras Vol 7 Caso adem?s
presenta im?genes de Tenochtli de varios c?dices , Kinsgsborough,
Mendocino y Telleriano  p 75 del Atlas de Duran y del  c?dice
Mendocino Lamina 1, y del C?dice Ram?rez.

Caso  liga el Tenochtli con el llamado por Seler:  ?arbol del norte?
donde se muestra un nopal de dimensiones arb?reas que brota de un ser
y que aparece en el C?dice Borgia p 50 . y el mismo ??rbol del norte?
en el C?dice Vaticano B p.17  Caso:81
Borgia en Famsi aqui
http://www.famsi.org/spanish/research/loubat/Borgia/page_50.jpg
Vaticano B esquina inferior derecha aqu?:
http://www.famsi.org/spanish/research/loubat/Vaticanus%203773/page_17.jpg


Otra interpretaci?n  del llamado Teocalli ,,,. a mi personal juicio de
menor alcance que la interpretaci?n de Caso,  es la de M. Graulich :
Nuevas consideraciones en Torno al Teocalli de la Guerra Sagrada
(S?mbolos de Poder en Mesoam?rica UNAM )   pues su ?nico objetivo es
buscar sustentar que en dicha escultura se encuentra la evidencia de
una reforma religiosa del cambio de fecha del Fuego Nuevo.

Existen otras im?genes del Tenochtli que lo se?alan como s?mbolo de
identidad de Tenochtitlan, al  igual que todas las im?genes de
Tenochtli citadas por Caso .

Entre otras im?genes de Tenochtli que no cita Caso se tiene la imagen
del Tenochtli de donde parte Axayacatl con traje de Xipe  en la L?mina
3 del Coscatzin  que viene en una reproducci?n horrible en el art?culo
?Los Dioses del Templo Mayor de Tlateloco ?y en ?La guerra de 1473 de
Tlatelolco y Tenochtitlan seg?n el c?dice Cozcatzin? ambos art?culos
de  Robert Barlow Obras Vol.2 p 94 y 77 respectivamente.

En el primer art?culo se reproduce  tambi?n la l?mina 36v del
Telleriano donde aparece el Tenochtli identificando a Tenochtitl?n en
su guerra contra Tlatelolco. Pero mejor ver esta p?gina en Famsi aqu?
http://www.famsi.org/spanish/research/loubat/Telleriano-Remensis/page_36v.jpg
o cuando invaden Cotastla  lamina 33v
http://www.famsi.org/spanish/research/loubat/Telleriano-Remensis/page_33v.jpg

Representaciones pictogr?ficas y s?mb?licas  mas extra?as de
Tlatelolco y del Tenochtli  que identifica a Tenochtitlan se ven en
?Anales de la Conquista de Tlatelolco? documento del museo de Boturini
rescatado por el sabio Jos? Fernando Ram?rez, original perdido a?os
despu?s y que en su momento copi? el licenciado Chimalpopoca Galicia
en el siglo XIX y de esta copia Barlow reproduce  una l?mina en su
art?culo Anales de la Conquista de Tlatelolco en 1473 y en 1521  Obras
vol 2 p 187

El Tenochtli , nopal y piedra, en ?stos Annales tiene como base una
especie de muro de madera o compuerta,  elemento gr?fico que no
aparece en otras im?gens del Tenochtli .

En estos Annales se califica a los Tenochcas como Ecatzitzimitl,
espectros de hueso del viento .  Y el an?nimo redactor tlateloca que
escribi? estos annales se?ala que en dicha guerra ?se destruy?
completamente el se?or?o, la nobleza y la religi?n?  propia de los
Tlatellolcas. De donde yo deduzco  que originalmente dicha religi?n de
los Tlatelolcas era distinta a la religi?n de los Tenochcas.  Barlow
Obras Vol 2. p186

En la cr?nica Mexicayotl redactada por Tezozomoc se nos dice que el
Tenochtli germin? y creci? a la entrada de la cueva que se ubicaba en
el sitio llamado Acatitlan f91 o en el sitio llamado Oztotempan f93
lugar cercano de otros llamados Acatzallan y Toltzallan . loc.cit

El lugar donde se asienta el Tenochtli parece ser fue  donde se
cruzaban cuatro aguas divinas dos que venian desde el rumbo oriente
donde estaba una cueva por la cual flu?a el agua de fuego Tletl y el
agua quemada Atlaltlayan mientras por el norte se situaba la segunda
cueva por donde manaban la Matlalatl el agua azul obscura y la
Tozpalatal el agua color rojo, color papagayo.  P63

En el cruce de esas aguas divinas parece ser fue donde surgi? el
Tenochtli , o sea no es cualquier nopal. Y la niebla que producen esas
aguas no es cualquier niebla es divina, es humedad divina y tambi?n
lo era el nopal que se nutria que tomaba agua de esa humedad  de la
niebla pues al estar el nopal sobre una piedra no lo pod?a hacer
directamente del agua.

Tenemos a los chichimecas mexicas miticamente hablando de riego del
nopal  mediante el mecanismo de  riego por nebulizaci?n o humedad en
el a?re.

El sitio donde estaba el Tenochtli, el nopal divino, que era la se?al
divina dada por el dios creador de los chichimecas mexicas para fundar
su  asiento, fue el mismo lugar donde esos miserables mexicas
chichimecas levantaron el indigente Templo dedicado a Huitzilopochtli
, llamado entonces al momento de la fundaci?n  el Ayauhcalli, la casa
de la niebla. Probablemente esa niebla era divina pues surg?a de las
cuatro aguas divinas que en dicho sitio se un?an y se cruzaban.

En el momento de fundaci?n bajo el gobierno chichimeca  de Tenoch,  la
casa del dios Huitzilopchtli a?n no se le llama el Coatepec, ese
nombre  le ser?a dado a?os despu?s ya bajo el dominio de los mestizos
Colhua Mexicas , un dominio y gobierno olig?rquico pues estuvo basado
en puros parientes de Acamapichtli, los cuales re escribieron la
historia y tambi?n modificaron la original religi?n chichimeca mexica
. Cambiandola por una tolteca, como cultural y racialmente lo eran
esos mestizos

Y dentro de esa nueva religi?n inventaron un segundo nacimiento de
Huitzilopochtli que adem?s no ten?an  necesidad de justificar pues al
fin y cabo como Huitzilopochtli era un dios  y adem?s muy poderoso,
pod?a hacer lo que se le pegara su gana y nacer cuantas veces quisiera
como ya anota y destaca la Historia de los Mexicanos por sus pinturas.

En el lugar donde estaba el Tenochtli, ah? mismo  se construyo el
Ayauhcalli, la casa de la niebla,  el hogar divino la casa del dios
Huitzilopochtli, el dios que era pariente o hijo de otro dios
chichimeca el dios  Opochtli,  ese dios de los chichimecas, cuyo culto
se manten?a en donde ahora se dice Churubusco.

Estos chichimecas  reconocieron la filiaci?n familiar de
Huitzilopochtli del dios de los chichimecas Mexicas con su dios
Opochtli por la caracter?stica de ambos dioses de ser zurdos, de usar
preferentemente mano, brazo y pierna izquierda. Rasgo de indudable
filiaci?n gen?tica como correctamente destacaron los informantes del
redactor de  la Historia de los Mexicanos por sus Pinturas, de donde
se toma esta informaci?n

El Ayauhcalli la casa de la niebla, el hogar divino de Huitzilopochtli
el Hijo de Tlaloc donde junto con su padre Tlaloc, juntos Dios Hijo y
Dios padre , seg?n  el c?dice Aubin  vivir?an y dar?an poder a sus
fieles chichimecas mexicas.

 Esta voluntad divina de Tlaloc la dio  a conocer cuando se entrevist?
con el teomama llamado Axolohua, un  teomama queen  su nombre indica
tiene facultades asombrosas como los axolotes, esos fabulosos animales
anfibios habitantes de los lagos que hoy est?n en peligro de
extinci?n.

 Axolohua  fue sumergido en el agua hasta que se ahogo  y gracias a
esa forma de muerte pudo llegar al Tlalocan y escuchar la palabra y
?rden divina del dios Tlaloc .

Luego el dios Tlaloc como dios poderoso que era hizo un milagro y
resucit? al teomamam  Axolohua, as? como Jes?s el dios cristiano
resucito a L?zaro.

Vuelto a la vida Axolohua les dijo a los dem?s teomamas lo que Tlaloc
le comunic? y le   orden? hacer se?alando que Tlaloc le dijo :   ?Ha
llegado mi hijo [Huitzilopochtli], pues aqu? ser? su casa. Pues el la
dedicara, porque aqu? viviremos unidos en la tierra?. Historia que nos
narra el texto del  C?dice Aubin.

Y el hijo de Tlaloc sabemos que fue la Luna seg?n nos dicen varias
fuentes y adem?s sabemos que  el dios agorero y prodigioso por eso
llamado el Tetzauteotl,  le dijo a el chaman Huitziil que ?l, el dios
Tetzauteolt era nada menos que La Luna , mexztli y por eso sus
adoradores se llamaron mecitin.

Luego el Tetzauteotl le anunci?  al chaman Huitzil  que iba  morir y
que en los  huesos del chaman Huitzil , el dios Tetzauteotl se har?a a
su imagen divina.

Y as? el dios Tetzauhateol, la Luna,meztli, tomando materia en los
huesos del  chaman Huitzil se convirti? en el dios Huitzilopochtli
seg?n nos narra Cristobal del Castillo en su Historia de la venida de
los Mexicanos y retoma la historia Domingo de Chimalpain en su
memorial Breve de Culhuacan.

II El Tenochtli como especie de nopal


El Tenochtli como una especie de nopal los mejores apuntes los
encontraras  en el escrito de Francisco del Paso y Troncoso La
Bot?nica entre los nahuas  editado por Pilar Maynes y publicado por la
SEP

Troncoso ubicara im?genes del Tenochtli en el c?dice Mendocino, en el
c?dice  Telleriano y en una obra menos conocida los grabados del padre
Nieremberg:  HIstoria naturae maxime peregrinae publicado el a?o de
1635 .

Troncoso  a?ade que el sabio Jos? Fernando Ramirez , tambi?n estudi? y
opin? sobre la obra de Eusebio Nieremberg con otra interpretaci?n
distinta a la de Troncoso, virtiendo su punto de vista en el art?culo
de Fernando Ramirez dedicado a Hern?ndez y que apareci? en la
Biblioteca Hispano Mexicana.

Troncoso se?ala adem?s que e la edici?n de Recchi de la obra de
Nieremberg se omiten las  p?ginas que  analiza Troncoso y Ram?rez.

En la obra citada el sabio Troncoso  (p.137) nos dice que la imagen
del Tenochtli est? en la l?mina 19 figura 16 del C?dice Mendocino
mientras que el Teo nochtli el nopal divino su imagen est? en la
l?mina 44 fig13 (p. 137 op.cit).

P?ginas adelante analizando los grabados de Nieremberg (p309  del
sacerdote Nieremberg) Trocoso  destaca que la planta representada ah?
es la la Ayotli, Una Calabaza (p145)  no un nopal y la compara con la
imagen XVI  del c?dice Telleriano  se?alando que "estudiando el fruto
y su ap?ndice por comparaci?n, he visto que es id?ntico al s?mbolo que
corona las pencas del te-nochtli en la l?mina XVI de la cuarta parte
del c?dice Telleriano?.

Maynez anota que es el a?o de 1478 doce conejos cuando los mexicanos
sujetaron a Xiquipilco.
http://www.famsi.org/spanish/research/loubat/Telleriano-Remensis/page_37v.jpg

Efectivamente aqu? en esta l?mina del c?dice Telleriano se observa que
el s?mbolo del Tenochtli se ha modificado  fuertemente respecto a su
tradicional imagen.

El Tenochtli deja de ser una especie de cruz de nopal de cuyos
?brazos? brotan dos flores de aspecto no natuales .

En esta l?mina el nopal no es una cruz, no tiene el ?brazo?  izquierdo
y  carece de las grandes espinas, sigue teniendo dos flores pero ahora
estas son representaciones pict?ricas realistas y  una de ellas ahora
brota del ?cuerpo? central del nopal lo uqe no ocurre en las otras
im?genes .

Esta imagen  de la lamina 37v del Telleriano es muy distinta a todas
las otras representaciones del Tenochtli  existentes en ?ste c?dice
pero sigue siendo el Tenochtli .

A su lado ligado al signo del a?o 13 ca?a  (1479) aparece primero el
escudo que tradicionalmente llevan varios dioses como Huitzilopochli,
Tezcatlipoca, la dios Tonan Icaca o Cihuacoatl , y ligado a ?ste
escudo aparece una planta sobre un campo de cultivo que a mi me parece
es una representaci?n de una planta de ma?z y no una calabaza como
postula Troncoso

Troncoso agrega "siendo de notar que el Tenochtli, casi siempre viene
coronado por una verdadera flor". Anotando que en la imagen faltan
algunas caracter?sticas biol?gicas de la planta y anotando una com?n
caracter?stica entre las Cucurbitaceas y las Cactaceas. p146

Troncoso analiza el Tenochtli de la p?gina 310 de Nieremberg y
se?alando que este grabado es mejor que el que aparece en el c?dice
Telleriano

Troncoso retoma la obra de Francisco Hern?ndez, el celebre sabio
Novohispano, y se?ala que el Tenochtli es una cact?cea "poni?ndolo
como id?ntico a la Tuna u Opuntia, con la diferencia de que sus
pencas, son mas largas, angostas y adem?s torcidas; comparando, en
efecto, la l?mina de Nieremberg, que se adapta a esa descripci?n, con
la de la edici?n romana correspondiente a la Opuntia Hernandesii (
pp78 y 459) se nota que las pencas de ?sta ?ltima son mas cortas y
anchas. resumiendo , todo lo que he dicho acerca de las l?minas de
Nieemberg, vemos que ya no se trata de aqu? de simbol?smos puros, como
en los Anales jerogl?ficos, sino mas bien de representaciones mixtas,
persistiendo casi siempre el uso de s?mbolos con referencia al terreno
en que se desarrollaba la planta, mientras que las diversas partes del
vegetal eran dibujadas con m?s o menos exactitud " p147

El terreno donde surge el  nopal de la variedad Tenochtli es pedregoso
y es simbolizado por una piedra.

Troncoso a partir de ello propone que la iconograf?a bot?nica de los
nahuas era simb?lica en los anales jerogl?ficos pero tambi?n hab?a
iconograf?a figurativa como la que se presenta en  el caso de la obra
de Nieremberg  pues Troncoso cita la opini?n de Jose  Fernando Ramirez
del art?culo citado quien se?ala que:  "Las dos estampas conservadas
en la historia de Nieremberg, y omitidas en la edici?n, de Recchi ,
patentizan fueron dibujadas por cal?grafos mexicanos de la antigua
escuela, pues solamente a ellos podr?a ocurr?rles darles las formas
requeridas por el sistema pictogr?fico".  p147 Troncoso op.cit

P?ginas adelante en la p. 165 Troncoso se?ala las caracter?sticas
complejas de la clasificaci?n bot?nica de los nahuas que inclu?a
variedad y especie y para ello toma entre otros casos el de la Tuna  o
Nochtli ( Troncoso p165 op.cit). Donde distinguain por ejemplo a la
tuna amarga

Espero te sea ?til algo de esta informaci?n y que sea de alg?n inter?s
para los otros miembros de este foro

Roberto Romero Gutierrez
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From hawatari21centuries at gmail.com  Fri Nov  4 04:56:30 2011
From: hawatari21centuries at gmail.com (SASAKI Mitsuya)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 13:56:30 +0900
Subject: ihcequi doing it?s applicative thing
In-Reply-To: <20111103234134.92291p8twc48oo0s@webmail.iu.edu>
Message-ID: <FRI.4.NOV.2011.135630.0900.HAWATARI21CENTURIES@GMAIL.COM>

Joe,

If his statement on hui:tequi is correct, that seems to be crucial for 
the interpretation of the noun hui:tecqui.
Although I've yet to find the intransitive attestation of hui:tequi in 
the texts and the pre-modern grammars, it might be that Andrews 
consulted some other sources I haven't checked.

The view of "valence neutrality" as merely a matter of valency is 
intuitively easier to understand as we know the pairs "te:miqui (vt/vi)" 
and "to:ca (vt/vi)" resemble English verb pairs "to dream (vt/vi)" and 
"to sow (vt/vi)".

Maybe your generalization and Andrews' statement don't contradict each 
other if we assume that his notion of "applicative/causative meaning" is 
simply semantic (i.e. whether the object of the transitive counterpart 
is semantically benefactive/malefactive or patient/theme).

In this regard, we could say, for example, that the verb "to break (vt)" 
is a lexical causative counterpart of "to break (vi)".

(But anyway, it seems still problematic to say that the object of 
te:miqui is benefactive/malefactive.)

Mitsuya SASAKI
The Department of Linguistics, the University of Tokyo
ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp

(2011/11/04 12:41), Campbell, R. Joe wrote:
> Mitzuya,
>
> Andrews lists one of our verbs of interest under the topic of
> "valence-neutral" verbstems -- ahci. He points out that
> "valence-neutral" verbstems
> can be either transitive or intransitive. This passage is interesting, but
> I found myself disagreeing with some specific statements, particularly
> in #24.2.1 and #24.2.2, where he claims that the verbs discussed can
> have an applicative or causative meaning.
>
> I would assume that ahci, toca, temiqui, etc., simply function as
> either intransitive or transitive verbs, so I don't see that claiming
> the applicative or causative function adds to our understanding.
>
> However, my understanding of a particular problem certainly
> benefitted from re-reading this passage. Molina lists "huitecqui" as
> 'herido' and, since I thought of "huitequi" as being only a transitive
> verb, I expected an object prefix. I discussed the problem with a
> colleague (a member of the just-dissolved Nahuatl morphology academy
> that functioned at Notre Dame until recently). We didn't arrive at a
> definite conclusion, but I would suggest that Andrews' intransitive
> "huitequi" provides the answer:
>
> nitehuitequi I whip someone
> nihuitequi I experience whipping
>
> tehuitecqui s.o. who has been whipped (by s.o. else)
> huitecqui s.o. who has experienced whipping (no implied agent)
>
> Joe
>
>
>
>>>
>>> On the issue of Nahuatl verbs that are both transitive and
>>> intransitive, we have others in the same category -- e.g., e:hua,
>>> chipa:hua, mela:hua:
>>>
>>> e:hua she arises
>>> e:huac she arose
>>> que:uh she raised it
>>>
>>> chipa:hua it becomes pure
>>> chipa:huac it became pure
>>> quichi:pauh he purified it
>>>
>>>
>
>

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From jdanahuatl at gmail.com  Fri Nov  4 13:36:09 2011
From: jdanahuatl at gmail.com (Jonathan Amith)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 09:36:09 -0400
Subject: Tunas and purslane
In-Reply-To: <CAOZR5EJHr6qiE5gU3_cDpY4-O9_PShGqX+Pxrehc+ptaX9sB+w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.4.NOV.2011.093609.0400.JDANAHUATL@GMAIL.COM>

Hi David,

In the Balsas valley of Guerrero tetsmitl is Portulaca oleracea L.
(verdolaga). There is a tetsmitl "look alike" ?:tlatl?:k in Oapan, that is
an Aizoaceae, Trianthema portulacastrum L.

For the Opuntia I have tekono:xtli in Oapan, and teono:xtli (sic) for the
inside rods of a certain cactus, apparently Pachycereus grandis Rose, but
maybe also some Opuntias. .

Jonathan

2011/11/4 roberto romero <cuecuex at gmail.com>

> Hola David  y demas foristas
>
> Envi? el siguiente ?rollito?  sobre el Tenochtli donde espero
> encuentren algo ?til,  en la bibliograf?a que buscas sobre el
> Tenochtli   para lo bot?nico la informaci?n esta en la parte II del
> presente texto.
>
> Tenochtli, s?mbolo religioso y de un tipo de sacrificio , de fundaci?n
> de pueblos por la v?a de la conquista ,  de identidad ?tnica y de una
> ciudad.
>
> La imagen del Tenochtli creo yo es un s?mbolo que sirve para indicar
> no solo una ciudad determinada M?xico Tenochtitlan sino de forma mas
> gen?rica sirvi? como s?mbolo para indicar la fundaci?n de un pueblo
> pues lo encontramos no s?lo en la fundaci?n de Tenochtitlan, ver la
> imagen varias fuentes,  sino tambi?n en la fundaci?n por los otomies y
> sus guachichiles amigos  del pueblo de San Juan del R?o en lo que hoy
> es el estado de Durango .
>
> Y sabemos que esta ?ltima fundaci?n fue precedida de la conquista y el
> exterminio de los chichimecas  opuestos a los esclavistas espa?oles,
> exterminio logrado mediante el concurso de las tropas otom?es  y de
> los guachichiles amigos todos bajo el mando del cacique otomie de
> Xilotepec con el pomposo nombre de Don Pedro Mart?n del Toro.
>
> De los datos anteriores el Tenochtli resulta ser  un s?mbolo de
> fundaci?n de una poblaci?n mediante la v?a de la conquista militar y
> el exterminio de los originales pobladores. Algo as? debio haber
> sucedido en donde se fundo Mexico Tenochtitlan, sus originales
> pobladores,  posiblemente otomies,  fueron no s?lo echados de sus
> tierras sino aniquilados, exterminados y borrados de la historia .
>
> La imagen del Tenochtli como un conjunto simb?lico que une a un  nopal
> con un ?guila  parada sobre el nopal y que atrapa a una serpiente no
> solo aparece en el mito de los chichimecas mexicas o de los colhuas
> mexicas, los mal llamados aztecas .
>
> Creo que como ocurri? con el nombre de M?xico, de igual forma  los
> chichimecas mexicas tomaron el mito de los otomies
>
> Mas a?n los chichimecas mexicas eran quiz?s culturalmente otomies.
> Ixtlixochitl dice que sus idioma natural no era el nahuatl y en la
> Relaci?n de Coatepec  de 1582 se dice que dicho lugar fue conquistado
> por los colhuas y por los chichimecas mexicas  y que unos hablaban
> nahuatl y los otros s?lo un lenguaje chichimeca
>
> El mismo conjunto simb?lico usado por los mexicas para representar al
> Tenochtli aparece en un documento de manufactura otom? s?lo que ah? la
> serpiente aparece adem?s herida por una flecha o por un dardo o
> venablo.
>
>  La imagen del Tenochtli  se pinta al lado de donde se ilustra el
> combate entre el jefe chichimeca  Mazad?n  y el jefe otom?e Pedro
> Mart?n del Toro, combate en donde resulta muerto Mazadin, el cacique
> chichimeca .
>
> Esta imagen del Tenochtli la puedes ver en la l?mina 2 del Memorial de
> Pedro Mart?n del Toro,  editado, paleografiado y publicado hace a?os
> por el gobierno del Estado de Quer?taro en una muy buena edici?n
> preparada por un joven investigador afincado en M?xico que ya entonces
> promet?a mucho y que tu debes conocer bien.
>
> Este investigador de iniciales D. W.   interpreta el s?mbolo del
> Tenochtli como s?mbolo de un acto de sacrificio de corazones para
> alimentar el sol y con ello los otom?es como portadores de una
> religi?n solar  o con el culto al sol como soporte estructural de la
> religi?n de esos otom?es de la regi?n de Xilotepec.
>
> Por art?culos mas recientes parece que hasta la fecha ese investigador
> sostiene la misma opini?n.
>
> Tenochtli tiene  entre los Colhuas Mexicas  un significado esot?rico y
> religioso el cual puedes ver en la  Cr?nica Mexicayotl del historiador
> ind?gena Tezozomoc Folios 88 a 94 , p. 62 a 67 en la edici?n de la
> UNAM con texto nahua y dos traducciones distintas del nahuatl al
> espa?ol.
>
> El Tenochtli se nos presenta aqu? como un nopal divino, un Teo
> Nochtli, pues  dicho nopal es una planta divina que germin? de la
> semilla divina que a su vez era el Coraz?n del brujo Copil, un ser
> divino pues era nada menos que el sobrino del dios Huitzilpochtli e
> hijo  de Malinalxoch,  la hermana del mis?gino y machista dios
> Huitzilopochtli que a la ?nica mujer que quiere es a su mama, La
> Cihuacoatl o la Coatlicue, seg?n la versi?n de la religi?n colhua
> mexica , pues Huitzilopochtli se la pasa peleando e incluso matando a
> sus hermanas, recuerdese el triste destino de la Coyotl Xauhqui.
>
> Brotando del cuerpo de Copil se ve al nopal divino al Tenochtli en el
> c?dice Azcatitla, respetando la ortograf?a original del documento y no
> la moderna ortograf?a del nahuatl . La L?mina donde aparece brotando
> el Tenochtli del centro del cuerpo de Copil es la l?mina XIII del
> citado c?dice Azcatitla que se puede consultar en las Obras Completas
> de Barlow Tomo V
>
> Im?genes similares de nopales que brotan del centro de un cuerpo lo
> puedes ver en el c?dice Borgia  y arqueol?gicamente en Tula , en las
> alfardas del sitio Zapata Ver Iconoghraf?a de Tula El caso de la
> escultura de Elizabeth Jimenez INAH  fig 114 y 115 p 264 y 265
>
> Brotando el Tenochtli de la fauce de una deidad  que se halla tendida
> en el suelo  se le puede ver en la parte trasera del llamado Teocalli
> de la guerra Sagrada, ?nica representaci?n escult?rica de
> Huitzilopochtli que existe de ese dios de acuerdo a la Doctora Yolotl
> Gonzales.
>
> Aunque ah? en ese Teocalli de la? la imagen de  Huitzilopochtli no muy
> tradicional pues aparece cojo de un pie como lo es la imagen t?pica
> del dios Tezcatlipoca. En una de esa no es Huitzilopochtli quien se
> represent? en dicha escultura
>
> Imagenes e interpretaci?nes  de dicho pieza escult?rica  se pueden
> leer en Alfonso Caso El Teocalli de la Guerra Sagrada : Descripci?n de
> la Parte posterior del Monumento p 72  Obras Vol 7 Caso adem?s
> presenta im?genes de Tenochtli de varios c?dices , Kinsgsborough,
> Mendocino y Telleriano  p 75 del Atlas de Duran y del  c?dice
> Mendocino Lamina 1, y del C?dice Ram?rez.
>
> Caso  liga el Tenochtli con el llamado por Seler:  ?arbol del norte?
> donde se muestra un nopal de dimensiones arb?reas que brota de un ser
> y que aparece en el C?dice Borgia p 50 . y el mismo ??rbol del norte?
> en el C?dice Vaticano B p.17  Caso:81
> Borgia en Famsi aqui
> http://www.famsi.org/spanish/research/loubat/Borgia/page_50.jpg
> Vaticano B esquina inferior derecha aqu?:
> http://www.famsi.org/spanish/research/loubat/Vaticanus%203773/page_17.jpg
>
>
> Otra interpretaci?n  del llamado Teocalli ,,,. a mi personal juicio de
> menor alcance que la interpretaci?n de Caso,  es la de M. Graulich :
> Nuevas consideraciones en Torno al Teocalli de la Guerra Sagrada
> (S?mbolos de Poder en Mesoam?rica UNAM )   pues su ?nico objetivo es
> buscar sustentar que en dicha escultura se encuentra la evidencia de
> una reforma religiosa del cambio de fecha del Fuego Nuevo.
>
> Existen otras im?genes del Tenochtli que lo se?alan como s?mbolo de
> identidad de Tenochtitlan, al  igual que todas las im?genes de
> Tenochtli citadas por Caso .
>
> Entre otras im?genes de Tenochtli que no cita Caso se tiene la imagen
> del Tenochtli de donde parte Axayacatl con traje de Xipe  en la L?mina
> 3 del Coscatzin  que viene en una reproducci?n horrible en el art?culo
> ?Los Dioses del Templo Mayor de Tlateloco ?y en ?La guerra de 1473 de
> Tlatelolco y Tenochtitlan seg?n el c?dice Cozcatzin? ambos art?culos
> de  Robert Barlow Obras Vol.2 p 94 y 77 respectivamente.
>
> En el primer art?culo se reproduce  tambi?n la l?mina 36v del
> Telleriano donde aparece el Tenochtli identificando a Tenochtitl?n en
> su guerra contra Tlatelolco. Pero mejor ver esta p?gina en Famsi aqu?
>
> http://www.famsi.org/spanish/research/loubat/Telleriano-Remensis/page_36v.jpg
> o cuando invaden Cotastla  lamina 33v
>
> http://www.famsi.org/spanish/research/loubat/Telleriano-Remensis/page_33v.jpg
>
> Representaciones pictogr?ficas y s?mb?licas  mas extra?as de
> Tlatelolco y del Tenochtli  que identifica a Tenochtitlan se ven en
> ?Anales de la Conquista de Tlatelolco? documento del museo de Boturini
> rescatado por el sabio Jos? Fernando Ram?rez, original perdido a?os
> despu?s y que en su momento copi? el licenciado Chimalpopoca Galicia
> en el siglo XIX y de esta copia Barlow reproduce  una l?mina en su
> art?culo Anales de la Conquista de Tlatelolco en 1473 y en 1521  Obras
> vol 2 p 187
>
> El Tenochtli , nopal y piedra, en ?stos Annales tiene como base una
> especie de muro de madera o compuerta,  elemento gr?fico que no
> aparece en otras im?gens del Tenochtli .
>
> En estos Annales se califica a los Tenochcas como Ecatzitzimitl,
> espectros de hueso del viento .  Y el an?nimo redactor tlateloca que
> escribi? estos annales se?ala que en dicha guerra ?se destruy?
> completamente el se?or?o, la nobleza y la religi?n?  propia de los
> Tlatellolcas. De donde yo deduzco  que originalmente dicha religi?n de
> los Tlatelolcas era distinta a la religi?n de los Tenochcas.  Barlow
> Obras Vol 2. p186
>
> En la cr?nica Mexicayotl redactada por Tezozomoc se nos dice que el
> Tenochtli germin? y creci? a la entrada de la cueva que se ubicaba en
> el sitio llamado Acatitlan f91 o en el sitio llamado Oztotempan f93
> lugar cercano de otros llamados Acatzallan y Toltzallan . loc.cit
>
> El lugar donde se asienta el Tenochtli parece ser fue  donde se
> cruzaban cuatro aguas divinas dos que venian desde el rumbo oriente
> donde estaba una cueva por la cual flu?a el agua de fuego Tletl y el
> agua quemada Atlaltlayan mientras por el norte se situaba la segunda
> cueva por donde manaban la Matlalatl el agua azul obscura y la
> Tozpalatal el agua color rojo, color papagayo.  P63
>
> En el cruce de esas aguas divinas parece ser fue donde surgi? el
> Tenochtli , o sea no es cualquier nopal. Y la niebla que producen esas
> aguas no es cualquier niebla es divina, es humedad divina y tambi?n
> lo era el nopal que se nutria que tomaba agua de esa humedad  de la
> niebla pues al estar el nopal sobre una piedra no lo pod?a hacer
> directamente del agua.
>
> Tenemos a los chichimecas mexicas miticamente hablando de riego del
> nopal  mediante el mecanismo de  riego por nebulizaci?n o humedad en
> el a?re.
>
> El sitio donde estaba el Tenochtli, el nopal divino, que era la se?al
> divina dada por el dios creador de los chichimecas mexicas para fundar
> su  asiento, fue el mismo lugar donde esos miserables mexicas
> chichimecas levantaron el indigente Templo dedicado a Huitzilopochtli
> , llamado entonces al momento de la fundaci?n  el Ayauhcalli, la casa
> de la niebla. Probablemente esa niebla era divina pues surg?a de las
> cuatro aguas divinas que en dicho sitio se un?an y se cruzaban.
>
> En el momento de fundaci?n bajo el gobierno chichimeca  de Tenoch,  la
> casa del dios Huitzilopchtli a?n no se le llama el Coatepec, ese
> nombre  le ser?a dado a?os despu?s ya bajo el dominio de los mestizos
> Colhua Mexicas , un dominio y gobierno olig?rquico pues estuvo basado
> en puros parientes de Acamapichtli, los cuales re escribieron la
> historia y tambi?n modificaron la original religi?n chichimeca mexica
> . Cambiandola por una tolteca, como cultural y racialmente lo eran
> esos mestizos
>
> Y dentro de esa nueva religi?n inventaron un segundo nacimiento de
> Huitzilopochtli que adem?s no ten?an  necesidad de justificar pues al
> fin y cabo como Huitzilopochtli era un dios  y adem?s muy poderoso,
> pod?a hacer lo que se le pegara su gana y nacer cuantas veces quisiera
> como ya anota y destaca la Historia de los Mexicanos por sus pinturas.
>
> En el lugar donde estaba el Tenochtli, ah? mismo  se construyo el
> Ayauhcalli, la casa de la niebla,  el hogar divino la casa del dios
> Huitzilopochtli, el dios que era pariente o hijo de otro dios
> chichimeca el dios  Opochtli,  ese dios de los chichimecas, cuyo culto
> se manten?a en donde ahora se dice Churubusco.
>
> Estos chichimecas  reconocieron la filiaci?n familiar de
> Huitzilopochtli del dios de los chichimecas Mexicas con su dios
> Opochtli por la caracter?stica de ambos dioses de ser zurdos, de usar
> preferentemente mano, brazo y pierna izquierda. Rasgo de indudable
> filiaci?n gen?tica como correctamente destacaron los informantes del
> redactor de  la Historia de los Mexicanos por sus Pinturas, de donde
> se toma esta informaci?n
>
> El Ayauhcalli la casa de la niebla, el hogar divino de Huitzilopochtli
> el Hijo de Tlaloc donde junto con su padre Tlaloc, juntos Dios Hijo y
> Dios padre , seg?n  el c?dice Aubin  vivir?an y dar?an poder a sus
> fieles chichimecas mexicas.
>
>  Esta voluntad divina de Tlaloc la dio  a conocer cuando se entrevist?
> con el teomama llamado Axolohua, un  teomama queen  su nombre indica
> tiene facultades asombrosas como los axolotes, esos fabulosos animales
> anfibios habitantes de los lagos que hoy est?n en peligro de
> extinci?n.
>
>  Axolohua  fue sumergido en el agua hasta que se ahogo  y gracias a
> esa forma de muerte pudo llegar al Tlalocan y escuchar la palabra y
> ?rden divina del dios Tlaloc .
>
> Luego el dios Tlaloc como dios poderoso que era hizo un milagro y
> resucit? al teomamam  Axolohua, as? como Jes?s el dios cristiano
> resucito a L?zaro.
>
> Vuelto a la vida Axolohua les dijo a los dem?s teomamas lo que Tlaloc
> le comunic? y le   orden? hacer se?alando que Tlaloc le dijo :   ?Ha
> llegado mi hijo [Huitzilopochtli], pues aqu? ser? su casa. Pues el la
> dedicara, porque aqu? viviremos unidos en la tierra?. Historia que nos
> narra el texto del  C?dice Aubin.
>
> Y el hijo de Tlaloc sabemos que fue la Luna seg?n nos dicen varias
> fuentes y adem?s sabemos que  el dios agorero y prodigioso por eso
> llamado el Tetzauteotl,  le dijo a el chaman Huitziil que ?l, el dios
> Tetzauteolt era nada menos que La Luna , mexztli y por eso sus
> adoradores se llamaron mecitin.
>
> Luego el Tetzauteotl le anunci?  al chaman Huitzil  que iba  morir y
> que en los  huesos del chaman Huitzil , el dios Tetzauteotl se har?a a
> su imagen divina.
>
> Y as? el dios Tetzauhateol, la Luna,meztli, tomando materia en los
> huesos del  chaman Huitzil se convirti? en el dios Huitzilopochtli
> seg?n nos narra Cristobal del Castillo en su Historia de la venida de
> los Mexicanos y retoma la historia Domingo de Chimalpain en su
> memorial Breve de Culhuacan.
>
> II El Tenochtli como especie de nopal
>
>
> El Tenochtli como una especie de nopal los mejores apuntes los
> encontraras  en el escrito de Francisco del Paso y Troncoso La
> Bot?nica entre los nahuas  editado por Pilar Maynes y publicado por la
> SEP
>
> Troncoso ubicara im?genes del Tenochtli en el c?dice Mendocino, en el
> c?dice  Telleriano y en una obra menos conocida los grabados del padre
> Nieremberg:  HIstoria naturae maxime peregrinae publicado el a?o de
> 1635 .
>
> Troncoso  a?ade que el sabio Jos? Fernando Ramirez , tambi?n estudi? y
> opin? sobre la obra de Eusebio Nieremberg con otra interpretaci?n
> distinta a la de Troncoso, virtiendo su punto de vista en el art?culo
> de Fernando Ramirez dedicado a Hern?ndez y que apareci? en la
> Biblioteca Hispano Mexicana.
>
> Troncoso se?ala adem?s que e la edici?n de Recchi de la obra de
> Nieremberg se omiten las  p?ginas que  analiza Troncoso y Ram?rez.
>
> En la obra citada el sabio Troncoso  (p.137) nos dice que la imagen
> del Tenochtli est? en la l?mina 19 figura 16 del C?dice Mendocino
> mientras que el Teo nochtli el nopal divino su imagen est? en la
> l?mina 44 fig13 (p. 137 op.cit).
>
> P?ginas adelante analizando los grabados de Nieremberg (p309  del
> sacerdote Nieremberg) Trocoso  destaca que la planta representada ah?
> es la la Ayotli, Una Calabaza (p145)  no un nopal y la compara con la
> imagen XVI  del c?dice Telleriano  se?alando que "estudiando el fruto
> y su ap?ndice por comparaci?n, he visto que es id?ntico al s?mbolo que
> corona las pencas del te-nochtli en la l?mina XVI de la cuarta parte
> del c?dice Telleriano?.
>
> Maynez anota que es el a?o de 1478 doce conejos cuando los mexicanos
> sujetaron a Xiquipilco.
>
> http://www.famsi.org/spanish/research/loubat/Telleriano-Remensis/page_37v.jpg
>
> Efectivamente aqu? en esta l?mina del c?dice Telleriano se observa que
> el s?mbolo del Tenochtli se ha modificado  fuertemente respecto a su
> tradicional imagen.
>
> El Tenochtli deja de ser una especie de cruz de nopal de cuyos
> ?brazos? brotan dos flores de aspecto no natuales .
>
> En esta l?mina el nopal no es una cruz, no tiene el ?brazo?  izquierdo
> y  carece de las grandes espinas, sigue teniendo dos flores pero ahora
> estas son representaciones pict?ricas realistas y  una de ellas ahora
> brota del ?cuerpo? central del nopal lo uqe no ocurre en las otras
> im?genes .
>
> Esta imagen  de la lamina 37v del Telleriano es muy distinta a todas
> las otras representaciones del Tenochtli  existentes en ?ste c?dice
> pero sigue siendo el Tenochtli .
>
> A su lado ligado al signo del a?o 13 ca?a  (1479) aparece primero el
> escudo que tradicionalmente llevan varios dioses como Huitzilopochli,
> Tezcatlipoca, la dios Tonan Icaca o Cihuacoatl , y ligado a ?ste
> escudo aparece una planta sobre un campo de cultivo que a mi me parece
> es una representaci?n de una planta de ma?z y no una calabaza como
> postula Troncoso
>
> Troncoso agrega "siendo de notar que el Tenochtli, casi siempre viene
> coronado por una verdadera flor". Anotando que en la imagen faltan
> algunas caracter?sticas biol?gicas de la planta y anotando una com?n
> caracter?stica entre las Cucurbitaceas y las Cactaceas. p146
>
> Troncoso analiza el Tenochtli de la p?gina 310 de Nieremberg y
> se?alando que este grabado es mejor que el que aparece en el c?dice
> Telleriano
>
> Troncoso retoma la obra de Francisco Hern?ndez, el celebre sabio
> Novohispano, y se?ala que el Tenochtli es una cact?cea "poni?ndolo
> como id?ntico a la Tuna u Opuntia, con la diferencia de que sus
> pencas, son mas largas, angostas y adem?s torcidas; comparando, en
> efecto, la l?mina de Nieremberg, que se adapta a esa descripci?n, con
> la de la edici?n romana correspondiente a la Opuntia Hernandesii (
> pp78 y 459) se nota que las pencas de ?sta ?ltima son mas cortas y
> anchas. resumiendo , todo lo que he dicho acerca de las l?minas de
> Nieemberg, vemos que ya no se trata de aqu? de simbol?smos puros, como
> en los Anales jerogl?ficos, sino mas bien de representaciones mixtas,
> persistiendo casi siempre el uso de s?mbolos con referencia al terreno
> en que se desarrollaba la planta, mientras que las diversas partes del
> vegetal eran dibujadas con m?s o menos exactitud " p147
>
> El terreno donde surge el  nopal de la variedad Tenochtli es pedregoso
> y es simbolizado por una piedra.
>
> Troncoso a partir de ello propone que la iconograf?a bot?nica de los
> nahuas era simb?lica en los anales jerogl?ficos pero tambi?n hab?a
> iconograf?a figurativa como la que se presenta en  el caso de la obra
> de Nieremberg  pues Troncoso cita la opini?n de Jose  Fernando Ramirez
> del art?culo citado quien se?ala que:  "Las dos estampas conservadas
> en la historia de Nieremberg, y omitidas en la edici?n, de Recchi ,
> patentizan fueron dibujadas por cal?grafos mexicanos de la antigua
> escuela, pues solamente a ellos podr?a ocurr?rles darles las formas
> requeridas por el sistema pictogr?fico".  p147 Troncoso op.cit
>
> P?ginas adelante en la p. 165 Troncoso se?ala las caracter?sticas
> complejas de la clasificaci?n bot?nica de los nahuas que inclu?a
> variedad y especie y para ello toma entre otros casos el de la Tuna  o
> Nochtli ( Troncoso p165 op.cit). Donde distinguain por ejemplo a la
> tuna amarga
>
> Espero te sea ?til algo de esta informaci?n y que sea de alg?n inter?s
> para los otros miembros de este foro
>
> Roberto Romero Gutierrez
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>
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From mmccaffe at indiana.edu  Fri Nov  4 15:36:03 2011
From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 11:36:03 -0400
Subject: Tunas and purslane
In-Reply-To: <002c01cc99ce$dfc90e30$9f5b2a90$@net.mx>
Message-ID: <FRI.4.NOV.2011.113603.0400.MMCCAFFE@INDIANA.EDU>

Quoting David Wright <dcwright at prodigy.net.mx>:

> Estimados listeros:
>
>
>
> Has anyone seen the word tenochtli associated with a specific species of
> Opuntia in colonial or modern texts? (Other than the IB-UNAM edition of
> Francisco Hern?ndez?s botanical treatise, that is.)
>

This is an interesting question, David. I wonder if, since Opuntiae 
look so much alike, there were species-specific qualifiers. (There is 
an opuntia that grows natively in Indiana. It's almost unbelievable.)

>
>
> How about colonial or modern Nahuatl words for purslane (verdolaga,
> Portulaca oleracea)? I have Sahag?n?s itzmiquilitl (book 11, chapter 7,
> paragraph 3, folio 287r), which probably refers to this species (the
> association of the drawing and the gloss on f. 286r are probably in error,
> considering the descriptions in Spanish and Nahuatl). I also found itzmitl
> for ?verdolaga? in Mat?as and Medina?s dictionary of the modern Nahuatl
> variety spoken in Acatl?n.


I wonder why purslane is called itzmiquilitl. Did it evoke the image of 
an arrow with an obsidian point.

Michael



>
>
>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>
>
>
> Saludos,
>
>
>
> David
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>



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From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx  Fri Nov  4 16:49:06 2011
From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 10:49:06 -0600
Subject: Tunas and purslane
Message-ID: <FRI.4.NOV.2011.104906.0600.DCWRIGHT@PRODIGY.NET.MX>

Muchas gracias, Roberto y Jonathan.

 

Estoy tratando de terminar una ponencia sobre iconograf?a, toponimia y
bot?nica en los murales de Ixmiquilpan, con ?nfasis en los signos pict?ricos
topon?micos asociados con este pueblo y con Tenochtitlan. Usualmente, pero
no siempre, los top?nimos del Centro de M?xico pasan de una lengua a otra
como calcos. Por ello los estudios transling??sticos pueden darnos luces
sobre su significado.

 

En otom? encontr? relaciones m?s claras entre los top?nimos y especies
bot?nicas espec?ficas. Despu?s pasar un tiempo viendo fuentes bot?nicas,
llegu? a la conclusi?n de que la especie relacionada con uno de los nombres
otom?es del antiguo se?or?o de Mexico Tenochtitlan (An?bonda en las fuentes
coloniales) es Opuntia robusta (nopal de tuna tapona, o tuna de bonda como
dicen en el Valle del Mezquital), que tiene el fruto de un color
rojo-violeta saturado que mancha la boca de quien lo come. Hay dos
variedades, una dom?stica con espinas cortas y escasas, y tunas grandes (en
algunas partes se llama tuna camuesa); la otra es silvestre, m?s espinosa y
con tunas m?s chicas (parece que el nombre m?s extendido es tuna tapona).
Ambas clases se llaman ?bonda o ?monda en el Valle del Mezquital, y
actualmente ?Monda es la palabra que usan para la ciudad de M?xico. Hay
estudios moleculares que muestran que las dos variedades son en efecto
parientes muy cercanos, dentro de la misma especie.

 

Hasta ahora no he podido confirmar o refutar la idea de que los antiguos
nahuas hayan estado pensando en la tuna tapona cuando dec?an tenochtli
(independiente de toda la carga simb?lica que nos menciona Roberto, que es
muy importante); queda como una hip?tesis entre otras. Lo que mencion? en el
p?rrafo anterior la tiende a reforzar. De igual manera el otro nombre otom?
antiguo para M?xico, Amadets?n?, ?en medio de la Luna?, refuerza la
interpretaci?n de Mexico (me:xxicco [me:tz + xic + co (tz + x > xx)] o
me:xxihco [me:tz + xic + co (tz + x > xx) (c + c > hc)]) como ?en el ombligo
de la Luna?, siendo una palabra el calco de la otra, como han observado
varios autores, desde Jacques Soustelle en 1937. (Fray Antonio de Rinc?n,
hablante del n?huatl, en su Arte de 1595 pone ?mexicco: ciudad de Mexico, i.
en medio de la luna?, lo que da m?s peso a?n a esta manera de ver este
top?nimo n?huatl.)

 

La planta que da su nombre en otom? a Ixmiquilpan es la verdolaga, Portulaca
oleracea, ts?ut?kani (o ts?ot?kani) en otom?; ambas formas significan
?hierba comestible delgada?. En este caso creo que s? hay suficiente
evidencia para vincular esta planta con la hierba comestible itzmiquilitl y
con el top?nimo Itzmiquilpan. Cabe agregar que la etimolog?a de Antonio
Pe?afiel, que ha sido repetida por otros autores (por ejemplo por Frances
Berdan, en el tomo 1 de la edici?n de 1992 del C?dice de Mendoza), no
funciona, porque se interpreta la s?laba mi como ra?z de milli y no hay
manera de justificar la p?rdida de la primera /l/, por lo que debe ser de
mitl, ?flecha?; as? el itzmiquilitl ser?a literalmente ?la hierba comestible
de flecha de obsidiana?. Evidentemente en este caso los nombres de esta
planta no son calcos.

 

Saludos,

 

David

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From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx  Fri Nov  4 16:49:06 2011
From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 10:49:06 -0600
Subject: Tunas and purslane
In-Reply-To: <20111104113603.tz6uy84yw4cwoogw@webmail.iu.edu>
Message-ID: <FRI.4.NOV.2011.104906.0600.DCWRIGHT@PRODIGY.NET.MX>

Michael:

 

As I recently found out, Opuntia identification is a prickly (and slimy)
business. I read of a case where botanists classified the varieties in a
domestic Opuntia garden, then find that the people who planted them counted
more varieties than the scientists. When the fruits ripened it turned out
that what looked like the same variety was in fact distinct. As in other
areas of biology, genetic studies are showing the limitations of traditional
classification based on plant morphology, and the latter system is rapidly
approaching the status of being just another folk taxonomy.

 

As for purslane, you question is a good one. I don't see an obvious visual
connection between the leaves and obsidian points, but I don't have much
experience with the latter. I think you're right in thinking "edible herbs
of obsidian arrows" when you see the word itzmiquilitl (there is a distinct
-and flawed- etymology floating around). (For pictures, see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portulaca_oleracea.) The otom? word,
ts'utk'ani, appears to be a compound with ts?ut?i, ?thin? and k?ani, ?edible
herb?. Sometimes plant names in Otomi and Nahuatl are calques, but that?s
obviously not the case here.

 

There's more on this in another message on this list, in Spanish. Please
excuse the sudden shift in language. Sometimes I don't know what will come
out of my mouth or through my fingers. I guess Roberto's message is what
switched the channel this morning.

 

Best regards,

 

David

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From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx  Fri Nov  4 17:38:59 2011
From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 11:38:59 -0600
Subject: Tunas and purslane
Message-ID: <FRI.4.NOV.2011.113859.0600.DCWRIGHT@PRODIGY.NET.MX>

Just for the record, some underlined vowels in the Otomi words didn't
survive the trip through cyberspace:

 

An'bonda has an underlined 'a' as its last vowel;

 

ts'utk'ani has an underlined 'u';

 

ts'otk'ani has an underlined 'o';

 

ts'ut'i has an underlined 'u'.

 

For IPA equivalencies, see the chart in the Otomi section of the SUP-INFOR
website (first and last rows):

 

http://www.sup-infor.com/sources/codex_otomi/Fonemas1.htm

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From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx  Fri Nov  4 19:40:53 2011
From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 13:40:53 -0600
Subject: Tunas and purslane
Message-ID: <FRI.4.NOV.2011.134053.0600.DCWRIGHT@PRODIGY.NET.MX>

Jonathan:

 

Molina has ?Tetzmitl. cierta yerua?. Since there doesn?t seem to be a noun
?tetztli?, I first thought of te + i:tz + mi:tl, but this combination should
take the form tei:tzmi:tl, considering the length of the first two vowels
and the usual patterns of elision (at least in 16th century central Mexican
Nahuatl), so I guess the first syllable must be the indefinite human
possessive prefix te:-, thus te:tzmi:tl, ?someone?s obsidian arrow? or
?people?s obsidian arrow?, although I still miss the i: of i:tz(tli). The
fact that in Acatl?n, Guerrero i:tzmi:tl is ?verdolaga? is what most tempts
me to restore the i:.

 

Your tekono:xtli looks like the hypothetical classical Nahuatl word
teco:nno:chtli, (teco:ma - a)+ no:chtli (m + n > nn), ?prickly pear of the
globular pot? or ?globular prickly pear?. Both morphophonological changes
would be regular in early colonial central Nahuatl.

 

Teono:xtli as Pachycereus grandis coincides with the illustration of the
?Teonochtli? in the Codex Cruz-Badiano (f. 17v), depicting a single-column
organ pipe cactus. I suppose that would be teo:no:chtli (teo: + no:chtli) in
classical Nahuatl.

 

So far the strongest evidence I have that the word teno:chtli was used to
name a species of plant (other than the toponymical and mythical aspects
mentioned by Roberto) is the brief description given by Francisco Hern?ndez
in the 16th century:

http://www.ibiologia.unam.mx/plantasnuevaespana/pdf/historia_de_las_plantas_
III_6_4.pdf#page=10 Other than this, the botanical use of the word seems
quite scarce throughout time and space.

 

(By the way, the Instituto de Biolog?a of the UNAM put up a very functional
electronic version of Hern?ndez?s botanical treatise last year. That?s where
the preceding URL is from; the home page is here:
http://www.ibiologia.unam.mx/plantasnuevaespana/ I?ve needed a resource like
this for years.)

 

Thanks again for your help. I?ll copy this to the list to see if anyone has
any more useful comments.

 

***************************************************

De:   Jonathan Amith [jdanahuatl at gmail.com]

Enviado el: viernes, 04 de noviembre de 2011 07:36

Para: roberto romero

CC:   David Wright; Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org

Asunto:     Re: [Nahuat-l] Tunas and purslane

 

Hi David,

In the Balsas valley of Guerrero tetsmitl is Portulaca oleracea L.
(verdolaga). There is a tetsmitl "look alike" ?:tlatl?:k in Oapan, that is
an Aizoaceae, Trianthema portulacastrum L.

For the Opuntia I have tekono:xtli in Oapan, and teono:xtli (sic) for the
inside rods of a certain cactus, apparently Pachycereus grandis Rose, but
maybe also some Opuntias. .

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From campbel at indiana.edu  Sat Nov  5 02:29:13 2011
From: campbel at indiana.edu (Campbell, R. Joe)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 22:29:13 -0400
Subject: Plant Names
Message-ID: <FRI.4.NOV.2011.222913.0400.CAMPBEL@INDIANA.EDU>

David,

   I thought that some of my notes on plant names in the Florentine 
Codex might be of interest to you and some listero por ahi.  The notes 
are still incomplete, actually skeletal in many cases, but they might 
help by constituting a word list with page locations in the FC.  Their 
intention is to eventually give both location in the FC, as well as a 
sentence context.
But this doesn't work where Dibble and Anderson used a plant name as a 
paragraph header (e.g., item 1 below).  On the other hand, where there 
IS a sentence context, as in item 3, we get the Nahuatl context, as 
well as the English translation of the sentence.

   I am sorry for the incompleteness, but I don't know when the "in-" 
will be remedied.  I'm putting most of my current work into words that 
are more rewarding to me at my present state of ignorance of plant 
vocabulary.  That frequently involves words with a good deal of 
derivational layers.

   In the list below,
  b = book
  f = file
  c = chapter
  p = page
     (the file number is only my use in locating items for editing)
Book, chapter, and page refer to the Dibble and Anderson edition.

I'll be happy to clarify anything that is too murky.

Joe



++plant
1.  *aahuaton*.  haahuaton, .  aahuaton . <++plant> (b.11 f.16 c.7
    p.164)
2.  *acacapacquilitl*.  acacapacquilitl: .  acacapacquilitl . <a:catl
    capa:ni-l2-quilitl ++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.195)
3.  *acametl*.  acametl, mapipitzahuac, mahuihuiac yollopitzahuac. .
    the acametl has slender leaves, long leaves, a slender center. .
    <++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.217)
4.  *acaxilotic*.  acaxilotic .  acaxilotic . <a:catl-xi:lo:tl-tic
    ++plant> (b.11 f.15 c.7 p.159)
5.  *acaxilotl*.  acaxilotl: .  acaxilotl . <a:catl-xi:lo:tl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.6 p.126)
6.  *acaxilotl*.  acaxilotl: .  acaxilotl . <a:catl-xi:lo:tl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.140)
7.  *acaxilotl*.  in inelhuayo itoca, acaxilotl: cualoni, pahuaxoni. .
    the name of its root is acaxilotl; it is edible, it can be cooked
    in an olla. . <a:catl-xi:lo:tl ++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.195)
8.  *achichilacachtli*.  in quicuani: atatapalacatl, achichilacachtli.
    .  it is an eater of atatapalcatl [water plant] and
    achichilacachtli [gibbous duckweed]. . <++plant> (b.11 f.4 c.2
    p.37)
9.  *achili*.  achili, .  achilli . <++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7
    p.196)
10.  *achochoquilitl*.  achochoquilitl, .  achochoquilitl; . <-
    quilitl ++plant> (b.8 f.2 c.13 p.38)
11.  *achochoquilitl*.  achochoquilitl, .  achochoquilitl . <--quilitl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.136)
12.  *achochoquilitl*.  ahuexocaquilitl zan no ye in achochoquilitl. .
    auexocaquilitl is the same as achochoquilitl. . <--quilitl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.136)
13.  *acocohtli*.  acocotli .  acocotli . <a:tl1-co:cohtli
    ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.133)
14.  *acocohtli*.  iuhquin acocotli iquillo, huia: .  its leaves are
    long like those of the acocotli. . <a:tl1-co:cohtli ++plant>
    (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.146)
15.  *acocohxihuitl*.  acocoxihuitl: .  acocoxiuitl . <a:tl1-co:cohtli
    xihuitl1 .ah ++plant> (b.11 f.15 c.7 p.155)
16.  *acocohxihuitl*.  acocoxihuitl, .  acocoxiuitl . <a:tl1-co:cohtli
    xihuitl1 ++plant> (b.11 f.17 c.7 p.172)
17.  *acocohxihuitl*.  acocoxihuitl. .  acocoxiuitl . <a:tl1-co:cohtli
    xihuitl1 ++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.197)
18.  *acuilloxochitl*.  in ixochio iztac, iuhquin acuilloxochitl; zan
    yoaltica in cueponi, auh in cemilhuitl pictica: .  its blossom is
    white; like the acuilloxochitl it blossoms only at night and
    remains closed all day long. . <--xo:chitl +ly>ll ++plant>
    (b.11 f.17 c.7 p.177)
19.  *acuitlacpalli*.  acuitlacpalli, .  acuitlacpalli . <a:tl1
    cuitlatl-icpatl-l3 ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.135)
20.  *acuitlacpalli*.  quinenehuilia in acuitlacpalli, .  it resembles
    the acuitlacpalli herb. . <a:tl1-cuitlatl-icpatl-l3 ++plant>
    (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.135)
21.  *ahacxoyatic*.  ahacxoyatic, .  haacxoyatic . <dupl-acxoyatl-tic
    .aho ++plant> (b.11 f.18 c.7 p.181)
22.  *ahmolli*.  hamolli, .  ahmolli . <ahmo:lli ++plant> (b.11
    f.13 c.7 p.133)
23.  *ahquiztli*.  inin ahquiztli: zan xoxouhqui in mi, aya tle mocua:
    quihualpantlaza, mochi pani quihualteca in totomoctli: .  this
    aquiztli is drunk uncooked during fasting; it brings the blisters
    to the surface, it draws all the blisters to the surface. .
    <++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.131)
24.  *ahuatoto*.  ixiiucci, ixyayapalehua in omocaxani, inic pati
    tlanechicolli, quiz tlatzoyonilli, tlatlauhcapatli, tlacozazalic,
    coztomatl, atepocapatli, aatepocatic, tochtetepo, tlamacazqui
    ipapa, ahuatoto, cuachtlacalhuaztli, cuicuitlapile, cuappatli,
    tlalpatli, nantzin, mizquitlaxipehualli, tzatzayanalquiltic: .  a
    blotched face, [or] the face wheals of a woman recently delivered,
    are cured in this manner: one is to drink [an infusion of]
    assorted cooked [herbs]: tlatlauhcapatli, tlaco?a?alic, coztomatl,
    atepocapatli, aatepocatic, tochtetepo, tlamacazqui ipapa, aoatoto,
    quachtlacaloaztli, cuicuitlapile, quappatli, tlalpatli, nantzin,
    mizquitlaxipeoalli, tzatzayanalquiltic. . <++plant> (b.10 f.8
    c.28 p.143)
25.  *ahuatoton*.  auh mochi moneneloa in tlatlauhcapatli,
    aacaxilotic, ahuatoton, tochtetepon, zacacilin, iztac zazalic,
    atepocapatli, huei patli, iztac chichicpatli, .  and all [these]
    are mixed [with it]: tlatlauhcapatli, aacaxilotic, auatoton,
    tochtetepon, ?acacilin, iztac ?a?alic, atepocapatli, uei patli,
    iztac chichic patli. . <++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.141)
26.  *ahuatzitzi*.  ixquich quinamaca in pahtli, in xihuitl, in
    cuahuitl, in tetl, in memeyallotl, tececec, iztauhyatl,
    tlacuacuitlapilli, cuicuitlapile, zazalicpatli, tlatlauhcapahtli,
    poztequizpatli, zazalic, iztac pahtli, aatepocatic, ahuatzitzi,
    tlalcacahuatl, chichipilli, tzompopoto cicimatic, .  he sells all
    things, medicines, herbs, wood, stones, milk, alum -- [the herbs]
    iztauhiatl, tlaquacuitlapilli, cuicuitlapile, ?a?alicpatli,
    tlatlauhcapatli, puztequizpatli io ?a?alic iztac patli iz
    aatepocatic, aoatzitzi, tlalcacaoatl, chichipilli, tzonpopoto,
    cicimatic. . <++plant> (b.10 f.5 c.24 p.86)
27.  *ahuexocaquilitl*.  quinamaca eloquilitl, mozoquilitl,
    tzitziquilitl, tepicquilitl, mahtzalquilitl, tzayanalquilitl,
    ahuexocaquilitl, chilquilitl, huauhquilitl, huauhquiltzontli,
    xoxocoyoli, xoxocoyolpapatla, xoxocoyolhuihuilan, cuauhxoxocoyoli,
    miccaxoxoyoli, xoxocoyolcuecuepo ayauhtona, tacanalquilitl,
    mexixi, popoyauhquilitl, atzihuequilitl, calahuauhquilitl,
    itzmiquilitl .  she sells eloquilitl, mo?oquilitl, tzitziquilitl,
    tepicquilitl, matzalquilitl, tzayanalquilitl, auexocaquilitl,
    chilquilitl, amaranth greens, amaranth heads, several varieties of
    sorrel, ayauhtonan, tacanalquilitl, watercress, popoyauhquilitl,
    atziuequilitl, calauauhquilitl, a species of purslane. . <-
    quilitl ++plant> (b.10 f.5 c.25 p.92)
28.  *ahuexocaquilitl*.  ahuexocaquilitl zan no ye in achochoquilitl.
    .  auexocaquilitl is the same as achochoquilitl. . <--quilitl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.136)
29.  *ahxalli*.  ahxalli, .  axalli . <++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7
    p.194)
30.  *aitztolin*.  ihuan coniz in motlehuia, aitztoli, in xocoatl
    ipan. .  and when there is fever, one is to drink [an infusion of
    the root of] aitztoli in acid water. . <a:tl1-i:tztli-to:lin
    ++plant +del.n> (b.10 f.9 c.28 p.160)
31.  *aitztolin*.  aitztolin: .  aitztolin . <a:tl1-i:tztli-to:lin
    .ahf ++plant> (b.11 f.17 c.7 p.171)
32.  *amalacotl*.  huel iuhqui in atlan mochihua in amalacotl, .  it
    is just like the amalocotl, which grows in the water. . <amalacotl
    ++plant +prob> (b.11 f.15 c.7 p.156)
33.  *amalacotl*.  amamalacotl, anozo amalacotl, .  amamalacotl or
    amalacotl . <amalacotl ++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.196)
34.  *amamalacotl*.  amamalacotl, anozo amalacotl, .  amamalacotl or
    amalacotl . <--amalacotl ++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.196)
35.  *amaxtla*.  yehhuatl ommiz, in itoca coztic axixpatli, amaxtla
    inelhuayo, ahzo zan atl ipan, ahzo cacahuatl ipan: ahzo octli
    ipan, chillo, ayohuachyo, anozo zan achi pactli ipan. .  for this
    will be drunk what is named "yellow urine medicine," the root of
    [the herb] amaxtlatl, whether only in water, or in chocolate, or
    in maguey wine with chili [and] gourd seeds, or in very little
    water. . <++plant> (b.10 f.9 c.28 p.156)
36.  *anochnohpalli*.  anochnopalli, .  anochnopalli . <--no:chtli
    nohpalli ++plant> (b.11 f.12 c.6 p.123)
37.  *anochnohpalli*.  anochnopalli .  anochnopalli . <--no:chtli
    nohpalli ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.217)
38.  *aquiztli*.  haquiztli: .  aquiztli . <++plant> (b.11 f.13
    c.7 p.131)
39.  *atatapalacatl*.  inic motocayotia xalcuani, zan mochipa xalli in
    quicua: zan quemmanian atatapalacatl, in quicua: .  it is named
    xalquani because it always eats sand, though sometimes it eats
    atatapalacatl [water plants]. . <++plant> (b.11 f.4 c.2 p.36)
40.  *atatapalacatl*.  in quicuani: atatapalacatl, achichilacachtli. .
    it is an eater of atatapalcatl [water plant] and achichilacachtli
    [gibbous duckweed]. . <++plant> (b.11 f.4 c.2 p.37)
41.  *atetetzon*.  atetetzon, .  atetetzon . <++plant> (b.11 f.19
    c.7 p.195)
42.  *atlacotl*.  atlacotl, .  atlacotl . <++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7
    p.196)
43.  *atlacuezonan*.  in iquillo papatlactic, yayahualtic, itoca
    atlacuezona, .  its leaves are wide, round; it is called
    atlacue?onan. . <++plant +prob> (b.11 f.13 c.6 p.126)
44.  *atlacuezonan*.  yahualtic, iuhquin atlacuezona ic ca. .  it is
    round; it is like the atlacue?onan. . <++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7
    p.132)
45.  *atlacuezonan*.  inelhuayo, in atlacuezonan: .  its root is [like
    that of] the atlacue?onan. . <+prob ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7
    p.140)
46.  *atlepahtli*.  atlepatli: .  atlepatli . <--tletl1-pahtli
    ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.131)
47.  *atlitliliatl*.  atlitliliatl: .  atlitliliatl . <++plant>
    (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.141)
48.  *atolin*.  ihuan itoca, atoli; .  also its name is atolin. .
    <a:tl1-to:lin +del.n ++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.195)
49.  *atolin*.  nicpetlachihua in tolyama in atoli. .  I make mats of
    toliaman, of atolin. . <++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.195)
50.  *atzatzamolli*.  atzatzamolli, .  atzatzamolli . <a?-dupl
    tzamolli ++plant +prob> (b.11 f.13 c.6 p.126)
51.  *atzatzamolli*.  atzatzamolli .  atzatzamolli . <a?-dupl-tzamolli
    ++plant +prob> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.140)
52.  *atzatzamolxochitl*.  in ixochio iztac, aztic, itoca
    atzatzamolxochitl: .  its blossom is white, white; its name is
    atzatzamolxochitl. . <a?-dupl-tzamolli-xo:chitl ++plant +prob>
    (b.11 f.13 c.6 p.126)
53.  *atzihuenquilitl*.  tzihuinquilitl, anozo atzihuenquilitl, .
    tziuinquilitl or atziuenquilitl . <--quilitl ++plant> (b.11
    f.13 c.7 p.135)
54.  *atzihuequilitl*.  quinamaca eloquilitl, mozoquilitl,
    tzitziquilitl, tepicquilitl, mahtzalquilitl, tzayanalquilitl,
    ahuexocaquilitl, chilquilitl, huauhquilitl, huauhquiltzontli,
    xoxocoyoli, xoxocoyolpapatla, xoxocoyolhuihuilan, cuauhxoxocoyoli,
    miccaxoxoyoli, xoxocoyolcuecuepo ayauhtona, tacanalquilitl,
    mexixi, popoyauhquilitl, atzihuequilitl, calahuauhquilitl,
    itzmiquilitl .  she sells eloquilitl, mo?oquilitl, tzitziquilitl,
    tepicquilitl, matzalquilitl, tzayanalquilitl, auexocaquilitl,
    chilquilitl, amaranth greens, amaranth heads, several varieties of
    sorrel, ayauhtonan, tacanalquilitl, watercress, popoyauhquilitl,
    atziuequilitl, calauauhquilitl, a species of purslane. . <-
    quilitl ++plant> (b.10 f.5 c.25 p.92)
55.  *atzitzicaztli*.  in mococoa telchiquiuh: tocuitlapa, tomicicuil,
    tochiquiuhio, in nohuiyan tlatlaxhuizti in inacayo: ic moza in
    tlanechicolli, in nepapan xihuitl, tlalquequetzal, tonalxihuitl,
    atzitzicaztli, atzomiatl, .  if the chest, the back, the ribs, the
    rib cage hurt, if she aches in all parts of her body, she is
    anointed with a collection of divers herbs: tlalquequetzal,
    tonalxiuitl, atzitzicaztli, atzomiatl. . <a:tl1-tzi:tzica:ztli
    ++plant> (b.10 f.9 c.28 p.152)
56.  *atzomiatl*.  in mococoa telchiquiuh: tocuitlapa, tomicicuil,
    tochiquiuhio, in nohuiyan tlatlaxhuizti in inacayo: ic moza in
    tlanechicolli, in nepapan xihuitl, tlalquequetzal, tonalxihuitl,
    atzitzicaztli, atzomiatl, .  if the chest, the back, the ribs, the
    rib cage hurt, if she aches in all parts of her body, she is
    anointed with a collection of divers herbs: tlalquequetzal,
    tonalxiuitl, atzitzicaztli, atzomiatl. . <++plant> (b.10 f.9
    c.28 p.152)
57.  *atzomiatl*.  atzomiatl, anozo atzoyatl, .  atzomiatl or atzoyatl
    . <++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.219)
58.  *atzoyatl*.  atzomiatl, anozo atzoyatl, .  atzomiatl or atzoyatl
    . <++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.219)
59.  *axocopac*.  axocopac, anozo axocopaconi: .  axocopac or
    axocopaconii . <++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.191)
60.  *axocopaconi*.  axocopac, anozo axocopaconi: .  axocopac or
    axocopaconii . <++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.191)
61.  *ayauhchian*.  in ayauhchian: .  ayauhchien . <a:yahui-l2-chiam
    ++plant> (b.11 f.27 c.13 p.286)
62.  *ayauhchien*.  ihuan itoca: ayauhchien, .  also its name is
    ayauhchien. . <a:yahui-l2-chiam ++plant +a>e> (b.11 f.27 c.13
    p.286)
63.  *ayauhtona*.  quinamaca eloquilitl, mozoquilitl, tzitziquilitl,
    tepicquilitl, mahtzalquilitl, tzayanalquilitl, ahuexocaquilitl,
    chilquilitl, huauhquilitl, huauhquiltzontli, xoxocoyoli,
    xoxocoyolpapatla, xoxocoyolhuihuilan, cuauhxoxocoyoli,
    miccaxoxoyoli, xoxocoyolcuecuepo ayauhtona, tacanalquilitl,
    mexixi, popoyauhquilitl, atzihuequilitl, calahuauhquilitl,
    itzmiquilitl .  she sells eloquilitl, mo?oquilitl, tzitziquilitl,
    tepicquilitl, matzalquilitl, tzayanalquilitl, auexocaquilitl,
    chilquilitl, amaranth greens, amaranth heads, several varieties of
    sorrel, ayauhtonan, tacanalquilitl, watercress, popoyauhquilitl,
    atziuequilitl, calauauhquilitl, a species of purslane. .
    <++plant> (b.10 f.5 c.25 p.92)
64.  *ayotetontli*.  mohuihuilanani, iuhquin ayotetontli: .  it is a
    creeper like the ayotetontli. . <++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7
    p.141)
65.  *ayozonan*.  quillo papatlahuac in iatlapal iuhquin, ayozona,
    tetzcaltic, yamanqui, tlatlalhuayo, .  the foliage is broad; its
    leaves are like those of the ayo?onan -- very smooth, soft, nerve
    like. . <+del.n ++plant> (b.11 f.20 c.7 p.209)
66.  *azcalxochitl*.  azcalxochitl, iuhquin tolin .  the azcalxochitl
    is like the tolin. . <++plant> (b.11 f.20 c.7 p.209)
67.  *azcanochnohpalli*.  azcanochnopalli, .  azcanochnopalli .
    <a:zcatl-no:chtli-nohpalli ++plant> (b.11 f.12 c.6 p.124)
68.  *azcanochtli*.  in itlaaquillo: itoca azcanochtli .  the name of
    its fruit is azcanochtli. . <a:zcatl-no:chtli ++plant> (b.11
    f.12 c.6 p.124)
69.  *azcatzontecomatl*.  in patli itoca azcatzontecomatl
    ommochichipinia: .  the medicine, [an herb] named
    azcatzontecomatl, is applied as drops [in the eyes]. . <a:zcatl
    tzontli-tecomatl ++plant .ah> (b.10 f.8 c.28 p.144)
70.  *azpan*.  ic ninixamia in azpan. .  I wash my face with azpan. .
    <++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.193)
71.  *aztapili*.  in itzin in iztac, itoca aztapili, anozo oztopili. .
    the name of its white base is aztapili, or oztopili. .
    <++plant +prob> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.195)
72.  *cacahuaxochitl*.  yehhuatl in itecomayo cacahuaxochitl: .  this
    is the cup of the cacauaxochitl. . <cacahuatl-xo:chitl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.212)
73.  *cacapxon*.  cacapxon: .  cacapxon . <++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.6
    p.126)
74.  *cacomitl*.  cacomitl .  cacomitl . <++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.6
    p.126)
75.  *calahuauhquilitl*.  quinamaca eloquilitl, mozoquilitl,
    tzitziquilitl, tepicquilitl, mahtzalquilitl, tzayanalquilitl,
    ahuexocaquilitl, chilquilitl, huauhquilitl, huauhquiltzontli,
    xoxocoyoli, xoxocoyolpapatla, xoxocoyolhuihuilan, cuauhxoxocoyoli,
    miccaxoxoyoli, xoxocoyolcuecuepo ayauhtona, tacanalquilitl,
    mexixi, popoyauhquilitl, atzihuequilitl, calahuauhquilitl,
    itzmiquilitl .  she sells eloquilitl, mo?oquilitl, tzitziquilitl,
    tepicquilitl, matzalquilitl, tzayanalquilitl, auexocaquilitl,
    chilquilitl, amaranth greens, amaranth heads, several varieties of
    sorrel, ayauhtonan, tacanalquilitl, watercress, popoyauhquilitl,
    atziuequilitl, calauauhquilitl, a species of purslane. . <-
    quilitl ++plant> (b.10 f.5 c.25 p.92)
76.  *camaxtle*.  camaxtle: .  camaxtle . <++plant> (b.11 f.12 c.6
    p.124)
77.  *camaxtle*.  in ixochicuallo, zan no itoca camaxtle, .  the name
    of its fruit is also camaxtle. . <++plant> (b.11 f.12 c.6
    p.124)
78.  *camohtli*.  inin tlanelhuatl: itoca, camotli: .  the name of
    this root is camotli. . <camohtli ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7
    p.140)
79.  *camohtli*.  cequi iztac, itoca, iztac camotli, poxcauhcamotli: .
    some are white; their name is iztac camotli [or] poxcauhcamotli. .
    <camohtli ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.140)
80.  *camohxalli*.  auh in tlacpac omoteneuh, itoca: camoxalli. .  and
    the name of those mentioned above is camoxalli. . <camohtli-xa:lli
    ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.140)
81.  *camohxihuitl*.  xihuitl xochicuallo. camoxihuitl, .  a fruit
    producing herb camoxiuitl . <camohtli-xihuitl1 ++plant> (b.11
    f.14 c.7 p.140)
82.  *caxtlatlapan*.  auh in ihcuac ye tetepotzo quiza ima, yicxi,
    coniz tlanoquiloni, itoca tlatlapanaltic inelhuayo, iuhquin
    caxtlatlapan, .  and if one's hands [and] one's feet become
    twisted, one is to drink a purgative, the root [of an herb] named
    tlatlapanaltic, which is like caxtlatlapan. . <++plant> (b.10
    f.9 c.28 p.157)
83.  *caxtlatlapan*.  in iquillo zan mohuillana iuhquin etl, iuhquin
    caxtlatlapan. .  its foliage just creeps like the bean, like the
    caxtlatlapan herb. . <++plant> (b.11 f.12 c.6 p.125)
84.  *caxtlatlapan*.  ixiuhyo: in ixochio iuhqui in caxtlatlapan
    ixochio, mohuitic. .  its blossom is like the blossom of the
    caxtlatlapan; it is dark blue. . <++plant> (b.11 f.15 c.7
    p.155)
85.  *caxtlatlapan*.  zan no quihuihuicatica in ixochio; camopaltic in
    ixochio, iuhquin caxtlatlapan: .  it also intersperses its
    blossoms; purple are its blossoms, like those of the caxtlatlapan.
    . <++plant> (b.11 f.17 c.7 p.171)
86.  *caxtlatlapan*.  caxtlatlapan, .  caxtlatlapan; . <++plant>
    (b.11 f.20 c.7 p.199)
87.  *cexochitl*.  ihuan itoca cuauheloxochitl, anozo cexochitl, .
    also its name is quauheloxochitl or cexochitl. . <++plant>
    (b.11 f.16 c.7 p.160)
88.  *chapolxihuitl*.  chapolxihuitl, .  chapolxiuitl . <chapolin
    xihuitl1 ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.149)
89.  *chian*.  inic nahui parrapho: itechpa tlatoa, in chian. .
    fourth paragraph, which telleth of chia. . <chiam ++plant>
    (b.11 f.27 c.13 p.285)
90.  *chicalotl*.  michpiltetei: anozo amilotetl, ololtic, ololauhqui
    iuhquin huauhtli, chicalotl, iztac ichyo, teteicani, teteinini, .
    michpili eggs or amilotl eggs are round, roundish, like amaranth
    or argemone mexicana [seed]: white, like maguey fiber; crunchable,
    crushable. . <chicalotl ++plant> (b.11 f.7 c.3 p.64)
91.  *chicalotl*.  ihuan itoca chicalotl, .  also its name is
    chicalotl. . <chicalotl ++plant> (b.11 f.27 c.13 p.287)
92.  *chichic pahtli*.  auh in yehhuatl, in chichic patli, itech
    quiza, itlaxipehuallo in huei cuahuitl, itoca chichic cuahuitl, .
    and this, the chichic patli, comes from the bark of a large tree
    named chichic quauitl. . <chichiya-delya-c1 pahtli ++plant
    +phrase> (b.11 f.18 c.7 p.179)
93.  *chichicaquilitl*.  chichicaquilitl: .  chichicaquilitl .
    <chichiya-delya-ca:5-quilitl ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.137)
94.  *chichientic*.  chichientic .  chichientic . <dupl-chiam-tic .aho
    ++plant +a>e> (b.11 f.15 c.7 p.153)
95.  *chichilquiltic*.  chichilquiltic, .  chichilquiltic . <dupl
    chi:lli-quilitl-tic ++plant> (b.11 f.15 c.7 p.156)
96.  *chichipelotl*.  niman ye ic nextamalxochitia: niman mitoa,
    chichipelotl, .  then it becomes the nixtamal flower; now it is
    called chichipelotl. . <++plant> (b.11 f.27 c.13 p.283)
97.  *chichipilin*.  coni chichipili inelhuayo, chichicaquilitl,
    tececec, xocoatl: .  one drinks [an infusion of the root of]
    chichipilli, [with] alum [and] acid water. . <dupl-chipilin +del.n
    ++plant> (b.10 f.9 c.28 p.159)
98.  *chichipiltic*.  auh ompa coni in iztac patli, in chichipiltic,
    ihuan achiton chilli, iztac octli ipan, ic pati, ic moyahua in
    eztli. .  and there one drinks [an infusion of the root of] iztac
    patli, chichipiltic, and a little chili, [or one drinks it] in
    white maguey wine to cure, to circulate, the blood. . <dupl
    chipilin-tic ++plant> (b.10 f.9 c.28 p.162)
99.  *chichipiltic*.  chichipiltic, .  chichipiltic . <dupl-chipilin
    tic ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.144)
100.  *chilachtli*.  in ixiuhyo, xoxoctic, yahualtotonti, iuhqui in
    chilachtli, cuahuitztoton: .  its foliage is green, small and
    round, like the chilachtli; the ends are pointed. . <++plant>
    (b.11 f.18 c.7 p.182)
101.  *chilpanton*.  chilpanton, .  chilpanton . <chi:lli-pan-to:n
    ++plant> (b.11 f.15 c.7 p.155)
102.  *chilpanton*.  monamictia in ixiuhyo chilpanton. .  the foliage
    of chilpanton is added. . <chi:lli-pan-to:n ++plant> (b.11
    f.16 c.7 p.168)
103.  *chilpanton*.  auh in chilpanton, omito in quenami. .  and it
    has been told how chilpanton [is used]. . <chi:lli-pan-to:n
    ++plant> (b.11 f.16 c.7 p.168)
104.  *chilpanton*.  inin tlanelhuatl: monamiqui in inelhuayo
    chilpanton, mocenteci: .  this root is mixed with the root of the
    chilpanton; they are ground together. . <chi:lli-pan-to:n
    ++plant> (b.11 f.17 c.7 p.174)
105.  *chilpanton*.  in chilpanto ye omito in quenami. .  the
    characteristics of the chilpanton have already been mentioned. .
    <chi:lli-pan-to:n +del.n ++plant> (b.11 f.17 c.7 p.174)
106.  *chilquilitl*.  quinamaca eloquilitl, mozoquilitl,
    tzitziquilitl, tepicquilitl, mahtzalquilitl, tzayanalquilitl,
    ahuexocaquilitl, chilquilitl, huauhquilitl, huauhquiltzontli,
    xoxocoyoli, xoxocoyolpapatla, xoxocoyolhuihuilan, cuauhxoxocoyoli,
    miccaxoxoyoli, xoxocoyolcuecuepo ayauhtona, tacanalquilitl,
    mexixi, popoyauhquilitl, atzihuequilitl, calahuauhquilitl,
    itzmiquilitl .  she sells eloquilitl, mo?oquilitl, tzitziquilitl,
    tepicquilitl, matzalquilitl, tzayanalquilitl, auexocaquilitl,
    chilquilitl, amaranth greens, amaranth heads, several varieties of
    sorrel, ayauhtonan, tacanalquilitl, watercress, popoyauhquilitl,
    atziuequilitl, calauauhquilitl, a species of purslane. . <chi:lli
    quilitl ++plant> (b.10 f.5 c.25 p.92)
107.  *chilquilitl*.  iuhquin chilquilitl ixiuhyo: .  its leaves are
    like those of the chilquilitl. . <chi:lli-quilitl ++plant>
    (b.11 f.15 c.7 p.158)
108.  *chimalacatl*.  chimalacatl: xochio, iticoyonqui. .  the
    chimalacatl has blossoms; it is hollow. . <chi:malli-a:catl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.220)
109.  *chimalnanacatl*.  chimalnanacatl: .  chimalnanacatl .
    <chi:malli-dupl-nacatl ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.132)
110.  *chipilin*.  atliz, in iiauh chipili, coatli, ahzo achi vino,
    ahzo achi octli, .  he is to drink the water of the chipili herb,
    [or infusions of] coatli, or a little wine, or a little maguey
    wine. . <chipilin +del.n ++plant> (b.10 f.9 c.28 p.150)
111.  *cicimatic*.  ixquich quinamaca in pahtli, in xihuitl, in
    cuahuitl, in tetl, in memeyallotl, tececec, iztauhyatl,
    tlacuacuitlapilli, cuicuitlapile, zazalicpatli, tlatlauhcapahtli,
    poztequizpatli, zazalic, iztac pahtli, aatepocatic, ahuatzitzi,
    tlalcacahuatl, chichipilli, tzompopoto cicimatic, .  he sells all
    things, medicines, herbs, wood, stones, milk, alum -- [the herbs]
    iztauhiatl, tlaquacuitlapilli, cuicuitlapile, ?a?alicpatli,
    tlatlauhcapatli, puztequizpatli io ?a?alic iztac patli iz
    aatepocatic, aoatzitzi, tlalcacaoatl, chichipilli, tzonpopoto,
    cicimatic. . <dupl-cimatl-tic ++plant> (b.10 f.5 c.24 p.86)
112.  *cicimatic*.  cicimatic .  cicimatic . <dupl-cimatl-tic
    ++plant> (b.11 f.18 c.7 p.184)
113.  *cihuapahtli*.  inamic cihuapatli motzoyonia, tlillo, ihuan
    mocenneloa totoltetl itehuilotca, .  its remedy is ciuapatli
    [leaves] cooked together with lampblack and [the white of] an egg.
    . <cihua:tl-pahtli ++plant> (b.10 f.9 c.28 p.155)
114.  *cihuapahtli*.  cihuapatli, .  ciuapatli . <cihua:tl-pahtli
    ++plant> (b.11 f.18 c.7 p.179)
115.  *cihuapahtli*.  conitia, in aquin cihuatl, in amo huel ic
    mixihui in omito, cihuapatli: .  they give this [in water] as a
    drink to the woman who cannot give birth, as is already mentioned
    [regarding] ciuapatli. . <cihua:tl-pahtli ++plant> (b.11 f.18
    c.7 p.180)
116.  *cihuapahtli*.  in ihcuac miz can mixcahuiz: amo achtopa miz in
    omito cihuapatli, anozo nopalli: .  when it is to be drunk, it is
    just this alone, in preference to drinking the aforementioned
    ciuapatli or nopal. . <cihua:tl-pahtli ++plant> (b.11 f.18 c.7
    p.181)
117.  *cimaquilitl*.  in ixiuhyo itoca, cuahueco, tel no itoca
    cimaquilitl: .  the name of its foliage is quaueco, but also its
    name is cimaquilitl. . <cimatl-quilitl ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7
    p.132)
118.  *cimatl*.  cimatl; .  cimatl . <cimatl ++plant> (b.11 f.13
    c.6 p.125)
119.  *cimatl*.  cimatl .  cimatl . <cimatl ++plant> (b.11 f.13
    c.7 p.132)
120.  *cimatl*.  in inelhuayo, iuhquin cimatl ic tomahuac, .  its root
    is like that of cimatl; it is just as thick. . <cimatl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.148)
121.  *cimatl*.  cenca chichic, huihuiac iztac, mimiltotonti, iuhquin
    cimatl: .  [the root] is very bitter, long, white, small and
    cylindrical, like that of the cimatl. . <cimatl ++plant> (b.11
    f.15 c.7 p.151)
122.  *cimatl*.  in inelhuayo coztic iuhquin cimatl: .  its root is
    yellow, like that of the cimatl. . <cimatl ++plant> (b.11 f.15
    c.7 p.157)
123.  *cimatontli*.  auh in inelhuayo, achi za huiac: za ce iuhquin
    cimatontli: .  and its root is somewhat long, single, like a small
    cimatl [root]. . <cimatl-to:n-tl ++plant> (b.11 f.15 c.7
    p.157)
124.  *coanenepilli*.  ihuan toquichcocol, ihuan cihuacocolli
    monamictia in coanenepilli, ic pati, quiquixtia in netlacolli, in
    cochtemictli: .  and for ailments of men and women, coanenepilli
    is added, to cure, to remove the ailment, [or for] nocturnal
    emissions. . <co:a:tl-nenetl-pilli ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7
    p.148)
125.  *coanenepilli*.  coanenepilli, .  coanenetilli . <co:a:tl-nenetl
    pilli ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.148)
126.  *coatzontecomaxochitl*.  coatzontecomaxochitl: .
    coatzontecomaxochitl . <co:a:tl-tzontli-tecomatl-xo:chitl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.211)
127.  *coaxoxouhqui*.  coaxoxouhqui, .  coaxoxouhqui . <co:a:tl-dupl
    xo:tl2-v11-prt1-c2 ++plant> (b.11 f.17 c.7 p.171)
128.  *coaxoxouhqui*.  zan monomahuia in mopapachoa, in ihcuac oitech
    quiz in ye ic ihuinti coaxoxouhqui. .  he acted of his own
    volition; he massaged himself when it had taken effect, when
    already he was drunk from the coaxoxouhqui. . <co:a:tl-dupl-xo:tl2
    v11-prt1-c2 ++plant> (b.11 f.17 c.7 p.172)
129.  *coayielli*.  coayielli, .  coayielli . <++plant> (b.11 f.14
    c.7 p.145)
130.  *cocopi*.  cocopi: .  cocopi . <++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7
    p.187)
131.  *cocotl*.  cocotl: unos bledos que son como cenizos o cenilcos
    de espa?a .  cocotl amaranth which is like spanish goosefoot .
    <++plant> (b.11 f.27 c.13 p.286)
132.  *colotzitzicaztli*.  tzitzicaztli, anozo colotzitzicaztli: .
    tzitzicaztli or colotzitzicaztli . <co:lli-v03a-caus06-l2
    tzi:tzica:ztli ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.146)
133.  *coyocuechi*.  quin onez, iuhquin coyocuechi, .  when it
    appeared, it was like the coyocuechi herb. . <++plant> (b.11
    f.14 c.7 p.139)
134.  *coyocuexi*.  in quicua: tonalchichicaquilitl, cuanacaquilitl,
    coyocuexi, tetzitzili; .  it eats tonalchichicaquilitl,
    quanacaquilitl, coyocuexi, tetzitzili herbs. . <++plant> (b.11
    f.6 c.2 p.53)
135.  *coyocuexi*.  coyocuexi, .  coyocuexi . <++plant> (b.11 f.13
    c.7 p.137)
136.  *coyotomatl*.  coyototomatl, coyotomatl: .  coyototomatl [or]
    coyotomatl . <coyo:tl-tomatl ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.141)
137.  *coyotomatl*.  coyotomatl: .  coyotomatl . <coyo:tl-tomatl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.144)
138.  *coyototomatl*.  coyototomatl, coyotomatl: .  coyototomatl [or]
    coyotomatl . <coyo:tl--tomatl ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.141)
139.  *coyoxochitl*.  no huel monamictia in coyoxochitl, ihuan
    tecomaxochitl mocenneloa, .  also coyoxochitl and tecomoxochitl
    are added, mixed all together. . <coyo:tl-xo:chitl ++plant>
    (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.146)
140.  *cozcacuauhxihuitl*.  cozcacuauhxihuitl, .  cozcaquauhxiuitl .
    <co:zcatl-cua:uhtli-xihuitl1 ++plant +need:tree> (b.11 f.17
    c.7 p.177)
141.  *coznochnohpalli*.  coznochnopalli, .  coznochnopalli . <coztli
    no:chtli-nohpalli ++plant> (b.11 f.12 c.6 p.123)
142.  *coznochnohpalli*.  coznochnopalli .  coznochnopalli . <coztli
    no:chtli-nohpalli ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.217)
143.  *coztomatl*.  coztomatl, .  coztomatl . <coztli-tomatl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.15 c.7 p.151)
144.  *cuahueco*.  in xihuitl in itoca cuahueco: .  the name of its
    foliage is quaueco. . <++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.6 p.125)
145.  *cuahueco*.  in ixiuhyo itoca, cuahueco, tel no itoca
    cimaquilitl: .  the name of its foliage is quaueco, but also its
    name is cimaquilitl. . <++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.132)
146.  *cuahueco*.  cuahueco: .  quaueco . <++plant> (b.11 f.27
    c.13 p.285)
147.  *cuahuichpolli*.  cuahuichpolli. .  quauichpolli . <++plant>
    (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.196)
148.  *cuahuitzquilitl*.  cuahuitzquilitl .  cuauitzquilitl . <-
    quilitl ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.137)
149.  *cuahuitzquilitl*.  cuahuitzquilitl quitocayotia. .  they give
    it the name quauitzquilitl. . <--quilitl ++plant> (b.11 f.13
    c.7 p.137)
150.  *cuahuiyexochitl*.  cuahuiyexochitl: zan ye no yehhuatl. .  the
    quauhyiexochitl is the same. . <cuahuitl-iyetl-xo:chitl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.20 c.7 p.198)
151.  *cuahuiztixochitl*.  cuauhacaxochitl. cuauhiztexochitl,
    cuahuiztixochitl, .  quauhacaxochitl. quauhiztexochitl,
    quauhiztixochitl . <cua:uhtli-iztitl-xo:chitl ++plant> (b.11
    f.21 c.7 p.211)
152.  *cuammamaxtla*.  cuammamaxtla. .  quammamaxtla . <++plant
    +wm>mm> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.196)
153.  *cuanacaquilitl*.  in quicua: tonalchichicaquilitl,
    cuanacaquilitl, coyocuexi, tetzitzili; .  it eats
    tonalchichicaquilitl, quanacaquilitl, coyocuexi, tetzitzili herbs.
    . <cua:itl-nacatl-quilitl ++plant> (b.11 f.6 c.2 p.53)
154.  *cuanacaquilitl*.  cuanacaquilitl: .  quanacaquilitl . <cua:itl
    nacatl-quilitl ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.139)
155.  *cuanacaquilitl*.  yehhuatl oquitocayotique cuanacaquilitl:
    ipampa ic huapahua in totolme, .  they named this quanacaquilitl,
    because the fowls are nourished by it. . <cua:itl-nacatl-quilitl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.139)
156.  *cuapopoltzin*.  cuapopoltzin, .  quapopoltzin . <cua:itl-dupl
    po:l-tzin ++plant> (b.11 f.16 c.7 p.166)
157.  *cuappatlachtli*.  in ihcuac mochihua cuauhtlacacahuatl in ayac
    quitoca: itoca, teocacahuatl, ihuan cuappatlachtli, ihuan in
    tonacayotl: .  when wild cacao grows -- which no one plants --
    called teocacauatl and quappatlachtli, [it eats these] and maize.
    . <cuahuitl-patla:hua-l2 +w>ch +wp>pp ++plant> (b.11 f.1 c.1
    p.4)
158.  *cuauhacaxochitl*.  cuauhacaxochitl. cuauhiztexochitl,
    cuahuiztixochitl, .  quauhacaxochitl. quauhiztexochitl,
    quauhiztixochitl . <cua:uhtli-a:catl-xo:chitl ++plant> (b.11
    f.21 c.7 p.211)
159.  *cuauhcamohtli*.  cuauhcamotli .  quauhcamotli . <cuahuitl
    camohtli ++plant> (b.11 f.12 c.6 p.125)
160.  *cuauheloquilitl*.  cuauheloquilitl, .  quauheloquilitl .
    <cuahuitl-e:lo:tl-quilitl ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.136)
161.  *cuauheloquiltic*.  cuauheloquiltic .  quauheloquiltic .
    <++plant> (b.11 f.16 c.7 p.160)
162.  *cuauheloxochitl*.  ihuan itoca cuauheloxochitl, anozo
    cexochitl, .  also its name is quauheloxochitl or cexochitl. .
    <cuahuitl-e:lo:tl-xo:chitl ++plant> (b.11 f.16 c.7 p.160)
163.  *cuauhiztexochitl*.  cuauhacaxochitl. cuauhiztexochitl,
    cuahuiztixochitl, .  quauhacaxochitl. quauhiztexochitl,
    quauhiztixochitl . <cua:uhtli-iztitl-xo:chitl ++plant +i>e>
    (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.211)
164.  *cuauhnanacatl*.  cuauhnanacatl, .  quauhnanacatl . <cuahuitl
    dupl-nacatl ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.132)
165.  *cuauholli*.  ihuan itoca cuauholli. .  its name is also
    quauholli. . <++plant> (b.11 f.16 c.7 p.161)
166.  *cuauhtapahzoltontli*.  cuauhtapazoltontli, .  it is a small
    bush. . <cuahuitl-tatl-pahzotl-v01b-delya-l1-to:n-tl ++plant>
    (b.11 f.17 c.7 p.173)
167.  *cuauhtzontetl*.  in inelhuayo. tetelquic, iuhquin
    cuauhtzontetl, .  its root is harsh to the taste, like that of the
    quauhtzontetl. . <cuahuitl-tzontli-tetl1 ++plant> (b.11 f.18
    c.7 p.184)
168.  *cuauhxihuitl*.  ihuan itoca cuauhxihuitl: .  also its name is
    quauhxiuitl. . <cuahuitl-xihuitl1 ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7
    p.147)
169.  *cuauhxiuhtic*.  cuauhxiuhtic, .  quauhxiuhtic . <++plant>
    (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.192)
170.  *cuauhxoxocoyoli*.  quinamaca eloquilitl, mozoquilitl,
    tzitziquilitl, tepicquilitl, mahtzalquilitl, tzayanalquilitl,
    ahuexocaquilitl, chilquilitl, huauhquilitl, huauhquiltzontli,
    xoxocoyoli, xoxocoyolpapatla, xoxocoyolhuihuilan, cuauhxoxocoyoli,
    miccaxoxoyoli, xoxocoyolcuecuepo ayauhtona, tacanalquilitl,
    mexixi, popoyauhquilitl, atzihuequilitl, calahuauhquilitl,
    itzmiquilitl .  she sells eloquilitl, mo?oquilitl, tzitziquilitl,
    tepicquilitl, matzalquilitl, tzayanalquilitl, auexocaquilitl,
    chilquilitl, amaranth greens, amaranth heads, several varieties of
    sorrel, ayauhtonan, tacanalquilitl, watercress, popoyauhquilitl,
    atziuequilitl, calauauhquilitl, a species of purslane. .
    <++plant> (b.10 f.5 c.25 p.92)
171.  *cuauhxoxocoyoli*.  cuauhxoxocoyoli, .  quauhxoxocoyoli .
    <cuahuitl-- ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.139)
172.  *cuauhyayahual*.  mocenneloa, cuahuayahual, ihuan iztahuatl. .
    it is mixed together with quauhyayaual and iztauhiatl. . <cuahuitl
    dupl-yahualli-trunc ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.147)
173.  *cuauhyayahual*.  mocoxonia, amo mopalticateci, moneloa in
    cuauhyayahual ixiuhyo. yehhuatl in iamatlapal, ihuan ixochio. .
    [its leaves] are ground up dry, not wet, mixed with the foliage of
    the quauhyayaual: that is, with its leaves and its blossoms. .
    <cuahuitl-dupl-yahualli-trunc ++plant> (b.11 f.17 c.7 p.178)
174.  *cuaztalxochitl*.  cuaztalxochitl: .  quaztalxochitl . <cua:itl
    iztatl-v01b-delya-l1-xo:chitl ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.212)
175.  *cuezalmetl*.  cuezalmetl .  cue?almetl . <cuezalin-metl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.217)
176.  *cuicuilnochnohpalli*.  cuicuilnochnopalli: .
    cuicuilnochnopalli . <--no:chtli-nohpalli ++plant> (b.11 f.12
    c.6 p.123)
177.  *cuicuilnochtli*.  in itech quiza, itoca cuicuilnochtli, .  from
    it come [the tunas] named cuicuilnochtli. . <++plant> (b.11
    f.12 c.6 p.123)
178.  *cuicuitlapileh*.  cuicuitlapile, cuitlapile. .  cuicuitlapile
    [or] cuitlapile . <dupl-cuitlatl-pilli-eh1 ++plant> (b.11 f.14
    c.7 p.141)
179.  *cuitlacintli*.  ihuan quitocayotia cuitlacintli, .  also it is
    named cuitlacintli. . <cuitlatl-centli ++plant> (b.11 f.27
    c.13 p.281)
180.  *cuitlapahtli*.  cuitlapatli, .  cuitlapatli . <++plant>
    (b.11 f.18 c.7 p.185)
181.  *cuitlapileh*.  cuicuitlapile, cuitlapile. .  cuicuitlapile [or]
    cuitlapile . <cuitlatl-pilli-eh1 ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7
    p.141)
182.  *eeloquiltic*.  auh inic mitoa eeloquiltic, quinenehuilia in
    eloquilitl, .  and for this reason it is called eloquiltic: it
    resembles eloquilitl. . <dupl-e:lo:tl-quilitl-tic ++plant>
    (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.143)
183.  *eeloquiltic*.  ihuan in yehhuatl in, in inelhuayo ixyayahual:
    mixnamiqui in eeloquiltic: ipahyo in aquin maxixtzacua, in ye
    itipozahua: .  and the root of this ixyayaual added to [the leaves
    of] the eloquiltic is a medicine for one who has dysuria, when the
    abdomen swells. . <dupl-e:lo:tl-quilitl-tic .ah ++plant> (b.11
    f.15 c.7 p.150)
184.  *eeloquiltic*.  eeloquiltic, .  eeloquiltic . <dupl-e:lo:tl
    quilitl-tic .ah ++plant> (b.11 f.15 c.7 p.150)
185.  *ehcapahtli*.  hecapatli: .  hecapatli . <e:catl-pahtli
    ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.147)
186.  *eloquilitl*.  quinamaca eloquilitl, mozoquilitl, tzitziquilitl,
    tepicquilitl, mahtzalquilitl, tzayanalquilitl, ahuexocaquilitl,
    chilquilitl, huauhquilitl, huauhquiltzontli, xoxocoyoli,
    xoxocoyolpapatla, xoxocoyolhuihuilan, cuauhxoxocoyoli,
    miccaxoxoyoli, xoxocoyolcuecuepo ayauhtona, tacanalquilitl,
    mexixi, popoyauhquilitl, atzihuequilitl, calahuauhquilitl,
    itzmiquilitl .  she sells eloquilitl, mo?oquilitl, tzitziquilitl,
    tepicquilitl, matzalquilitl, tzayanalquilitl, auexocaquilitl,
    chilquilitl, amaranth greens, amaranth heads, several varieties of
    sorrel, ayauhtonan, tacanalquilitl, watercress, popoyauhquilitl,
    atziuequilitl, calauauhquilitl, a species of purslane. . <e:lo:tl
    quilitl ++plant> (b.10 f.5 c.25 p.92)
187.  *eloquilitl*.  eloquilitl, .  eloquilitl . <e:lo:tl-quilitl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.136)
188.  *eloquilitl*.  auh inic mitoa eeloquiltic, quinenehuilia in
    eloquilitl, .  and for this reason it is called eloquiltic: it
    resembles eloquilitl. . <e:lo:tl-quilitl ++plant> (b.11 f.14
    c.7 p.143)
189.  *eloquilitl*.  nanacace: in iquillo, iuhquin eloquilitl: .  the
    foliage of nanacace is like that of eloquilitl. . <e:lo:tl-quilitl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.144)
190.  *eloquilitl*.  auh in iquillo, zan no iuhquin eloquilitl. .  its
    foliage is just like that of the eloquilitl. . <e:lo:tl-quilitl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.144)
191.  *eloquilitl*.  tlacotic, xoxoctic iuhquin eloquilitl
    iiamatlapal, .  it is stalky, green; its leaves are like those of
    the eloquilitl. . <e:lo:tl-quilitl ++plant> (b.11 f.15 c.7
    p.150)
192.  *eloquiltic*.  eloquiltic, .  eloquiltic . <e:lo:tl-quilitl-tic
    ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.143)
193.  *eloxochinelhuatl*.  eloxochineloatl .  eloxochinelhuatl .
    <e:lo:tl-xo:chitl-nelhuatl ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.142)
194.  *elozacatl*.  elozacatl, .  elo?acatl . <e:lo:tl-zacatl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.194)
195.  *epazotl*.  epazotl, .  epa?otl . <epazo:tl ++plant> (b.11
    f.19 c.7 p.193)
196.  *etenquilitl*.  etenquilitl, .  etenquilitl . <etl-te:ntli
    quilitl ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.136)
197.  *ezoquilitl*.  in iamatlapal, patlahuac: iuhquin excan
    xeliuhtica, iuhquin ezoquilitl in ixiuhyo: .  its leaf is broad,
    divided as if in three parts like the foliage of the e?oquilitl. .
    <eztli--quilitl ++plant> (b.11 f.18 c.7 p.184)
198.  *huahuauhtzin*.  iztac cuahuitl, anozo huahuauhtzi: .  Iztac
    quauitl or uauauhtzin . <dupl-hua:uhtli-tzin +del.n ++plant>
    (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.148)
199.  *huahuauhtzin*.  huahuauhtzin, .  huahuauhtzin, . <dupl
    hua:uhtli-tzin ++plant> (b.11 f.15 c.7 p.158)
200.  *huahuauhtzin*.  in ihcuac in quinamictia matlalin ixochio,
    ixochio, ihuan huahuauhtzin mocenteci, .  at this time they add
    the blossom of the matlalin; its blossom and uauauhtzin are ground
    up together. . <dupl-hua:uhtli-tzin ++plant> (b.11 f.15 c.7
    p.158)
201.  *huahuauhtzin*.  huahuauhtzin, .  uauauhtzin . <dupl-hua:uhtli
    tzin ++plant> (b.11 f.15 c.7 p.159)
202.  *huahuauhtzon*.  monamiqui in huahuauhtzon .  uauauhtzin is
    added. . <dupl-hua:uhtli-tzontli? ++plant> (b.11 f.16 c.7
    p.160)
203.  *huappapalotl*.  no itoca huappapalotl: in iamatlapal huauhtli,
    in manozo iquillo: in ihcuac ye chicahua, in ye iucci huauhtli
    iiatlapal: .  amaranth leaves or foliage are also called
    uappapalotl when the amaranth leaves already become mature, ripe.
    . <hua:uhtli-pa:pa:lo:tl ++plant +wp>pp> (b.11 f.10 c.5 p.95)
204.  *huauhquilitl*.  cualoni xihuitl: huauhquilitl .  uauhquilitl,
    an edible herb . <hua:uhtli-quilitl .ah ++plant> (b.11 f.13
    c.7 p.133)
205.  *huauhquilitl*.  im iahuayo, itzon in huauhquilitl, .  it is the
    prickly, the hairy part of the uauhquilitl. . <hua:uhtli-quilitl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.133)
206.  *huauhquilitl*.  huei huauhquilitl, anozo tehuuauhquilitl, .
    uei uauhquilitl or teouauhquilitl . <hua:uhtli-quilitl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.135)
207.  *huauhquilitl*.  xoxoctic: in itlacoyo, tlacuahuac: in
    iamatlapal, iuhqui in huauhquilitl, tentzitziquiltic, papatlahuac:
    .  it is green, its stalk is tough, its leaves are like those of
    the uauhquilitl, serrated on the edges, wide. . <hua:uhtli-quilitl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.18 c.7 p.182)
208.  *huauhquilitl*.  inin itlachieliz quiltic, iuhquin huauhquilitl.
    .  its appearance is herb-green, like the amaranth herb. .
    <hua:uhtli-quilitl ++plant> (b.11 f.22 c.8 p.223)
209.  *huauhtli*.  in imiyahuayo, itoca huauhtontli, in ixinachyo
    itoca huauhtli: .  the name of its spikelets is uauhtzontli; the
    name of its seeds is uauhtli. . <hua:uhtli ++plant> (b.11 f.27
    c.13 p.286)
210.  *huauhtontli*.  in imiyahuayo, itoca huauhtontli, in ixinachyo
    itoca huauhtli: .  the name of its spikelets is uauhtzontli; the
    name of its seeds is uauhtli. . <hua:uhtli-to:n ++plant> (b.11
    f.27 c.13 p.286)
211.  *huauhtzontli*.  huauhtzontli: .  uauhtzontli . <hua:uhtli
    tzontli ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.133)
212.  *huauhzacatl*.  huauhzacatl: .  Uauh?acatl . <hua:uhtli-zacatl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.194)
213.  *huauhzacatl*.  inic mitoa, huauhzacatl: cenca xinachio, cenca
    huauhyo, .  for this reason is it called uauh?acatl: it has many
    seeds, much like amaranth. . <hua:uhtli-zacatl ++plant> (b.11
    f.19 c.7 p.194)
214.  *huehuexochitl*.  huehuexochitl: .  ueuexochitl . <.ahh
    ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.210)
215.  *huexotl*.  moteci zatepan, ihuan in ixiuhyo huexotl; .  then
    they are ground up along with the foliage of the [quetzal]uexotl.
    . <huexo:tl ++plant> (b.11 f.17 c.7 p.169)
216.  *huihuitzquiltic*.  huihuitzquiltic: .  uiuitzquiltic . <dupl
    huitztli-quilitl-tic ++plant> (b.11 f.16 c.7 p.160)
217.  *huitzitzilmetl*.  huitzitzilmetl: zan cualton, zan huel
    ipanton, texotic. .  the uitzitzilmetl is of average small size;
    it is moderately small, blue. . <huitztli-dupl-tzili:ni-l2-+folk
    metl ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.217)
218.  *huitzitzilxochitl*.  huitzitzilxochitl .  uitzitzilxochitl .
    <huitztli-dupl-tzili:ni-l2-+folk-xo:chitl +tztz>tz ++plant>
    (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.192)
219.  *huitzocuitlapilli*.  huitzocuitlapilli .  uitzocuitlapilli .
    <++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.6 p.127)
220.  *huitzocuitlapilli*.  inelhuayo: mimiltic: in itoca
    huitzocuitlapilli .  its root is cylindrical; its name is
    uitzocuitlapilli. . <++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.6 p.127)
221.  *huitzocuitlapilli*.  huitzocuitlapill i, xochiopiaztic,
    iticoyonqui, chichic. .  the uitzocuitlapilli has slender
    blossoms; it is hollow, bitter. . <++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7
    p.220)
222.  *huitzocuitlapilxihuitl*.  cococ xihuitl, cococ patli, anozo
    huitzocuitlapilxihuitl, .  cococ xiuitl, cococ patli, or
    uitzocuitlapilxiuitl . <--cuitlatl-pilli-xihuitl1 ++plant>
    (b.11 f.15 c.7 p.152)
223.  *huitzocuitlapilxihuitl*.  huitzocuitlapilxihuitl: .
    uitzocuitlapilxiuitl . <--cuitlatl-pilli-xihuitl1 ++plant>
    (b.11 f.16 c.7 p.163)
224.  *huitzpalxochitl*.  huitzpalxochitl. .  uitzpalxochitl .
    <huitztli--xo:chitl ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.210)
225.  *huitzquilitl*.  huitzquilitl, .  uitzquilitl . <huitztli
    quilitl ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.137)
226.  *huitzquilitl*.  zan ye no yehhuatl in huitzquilitl: .  this one
    is the same as uitzquilitl. . <huitztli-quilitl ++plant> (b.11
    f.13 c.7 p.137)
227.  *huitzquilitl*.  yece yehhuatl in tlalhuacpan, in cuauhtla
    mochihua huitzquilitl: .  however, this uitzquilitl grows in the
    dry lands, in the forests. . <huitztli-quilitl ++plant> (b.11
    f.13 c.7 p.137)
228.  *huitzquilitl*.  quinenehuilia in huitzquilitl: .  it resembles
    uitzquilitl. . <huitztli-quilitl ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7
    p.137)
229.  *huitzquilitl*.  iuhquin huitzquilitl iquillo: auh in itzintlan
    iuhquin zacatl. .  its leaves are like those of uitzquilitl, but
    its root is like grass. . <huitztli-quilitl ++plant> (b.11
    f.14 c.7 p.145)
230.  *huitzquilitl*.  huel iuhqui in caxtillan huitzquilitl, zan
    tepiton, cemiztitontli inic mahuihuiac: .  it is just like the
    thistle of castile, only it is small; the branches are one span
    long. . <huitztli-quilitl ++plant> (b.11 f.16 c.7 p.160)
231.  *icelehua*.  icelehua .  iceleua . <++plant> (b.11 f.15 c.7
    p.155)
232.  *ichcatolcimatl*.  ichcatolcimatl cenca texyo, cuitlatolonton: .
    ichcatolcimatl is of very fine texture [and] a little large. .
    <ichcatl-to:lin-cimatl ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.140)
233.  *ichcayo*.  ichcayo .  ichcayo . <ichcatl-yo:tl1 ++plant>
    (b.11 f.16 c.7 p.162)
234.  *ihhuixochitl*.  ihhuixochitl: .  iuixochitl . <ihhuitl-xo:chitl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.211)
235.  *ihhuixochitl*.  tlapalihhuixochitl: zan ye yehhuatl in
    ihhuixochitl, yece chichiltic. .  the tlapaliuixochitl is the same
    as the iuixochitl; however, it is chili-red. . <ihhuitl-xo:chitl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.211)
236.  *ihhuixochitl*.  iztac ihhuixochitl: zan ye yehhuatl in
    ihhuixochitl, yece iztac: iuhquin iztac ihhuitl. .  the iztac
    iuixochitl is the same as the iuixochitl; however, it is white,
    like a white feather. . <ihhuitl-xo:chitl ++plant> (b.11 f.21
    c.7 p.211)
237.  *ihhuixochitl*.  iztac ihhuixochitl: zan ye yehhuatl in
    ihhuixochitl, yece iztac: iuhquin iztac ihhuitl. .  the iztac
    iuixochitl is the same as the iuixochitl; however, it is white,
    like a white feather. . <ihhuitl-xo:chitl ++plant> (b.11 f.21
    c.7 p.211)
238.  *ihuintiquilitl*.  yuintiquilitl. .  iuintiquilitl . <--quilitl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.197)
239.  *itzcuimpahtli*.  itzcuimpatli, .  itzcuinpatli . <itzcuintli
    pahtli ++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.193)
240.  *itzietl*.  itzietl: .  itzietl . <++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7
    p.147)
241.  *itzmiquilitl*.  ocommotoptemilito, ocommopetlacaltemilito in
    imitzmolinca, in incelica: in ayauhtonan, in tzitziquilitl, in
    itzmiquilitl, in tepicquilitl, in ixquich in celic, in
    itzmolinqui, .  they have gone placing in retreat their freshness,
    their tenderness, the ayauhtonan, the tzitziquilitl, the
    itzmiquilitl, the tepicquilitl herbs, all the tender, the fresh
    [ones]. . <i:tztli-mi:tl-quilitl ++plant> (b.6 f.3 c.8 p.36)
242.  *itzmiquilitl*.  quinamaca eloquilitl, mozoquilitl,
    tzitziquilitl, tepicquilitl, mahtzalquilitl, tzayanalquilitl,
    ahuexocaquilitl, chilquilitl, huauhquilitl, huauhquiltzontli,
    xoxocoyoli, xoxocoyolpapatla, xoxocoyolhuihuilan, cuauhxoxocoyoli,
    miccaxoxoyoli, xoxocoyolcuecuepo ayauhtona, tacanalquilitl,
    mexixi, popoyauhquilitl, atzihuequilitl, calahuauhquilitl,
    itzmiquilitl .  she sells eloquilitl, mo?oquilitl, tzitziquilitl,
    tepicquilitl, matzalquilitl, tzayanalquilitl, auexocaquilitl,
    chilquilitl, amaranth greens, amaranth heads, several varieties of
    sorrel, ayauhtonan, tacanalquilitl, watercress, popoyauhquilitl,
    atziuequilitl, calauauhquilitl, a species of purslane. . <i:tztli
    mi:tl-quilitl ++plant> (b.10 f.5 c.25 p.92)
243.  *itzmiquilitl*.  itzmiquilitl, .  itzmiquitl . <i:tztli-mi:tl
    quilitl ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.133)
244.  *itztolin*.  itztolin, .  itztolin . <i:tztli-to:lin
    ++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.194)
245.  *itztoncuahuitl*.  itztoncuahuitl, .  itztonquauitl .
    <++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.193)
246.  *itztoncuahuitl*.  itztoncuahuitl: .  itztonquauitl .
    <++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.193)
247.  *itztoncuahuitl*.  itztoncuahuitl. .  itztonquauitl . <-
    cuahuitl ++plant> (b.11 f.27 c.13 p.287)
248.  *ixnexton*.  ixnexton .  ixnexton . <i:xtli-nextli-to:n
    ++plant> (b.11 f.15 c.7 p.153)
249.  *ixyayahual*.  ommotequilia in xihuitl itoca ixyayahual, ihuan
    eeloquiltic moneloa, .  herbs named ixyayaual and eloquiltic are
    cut, [ground up, and] mixed together. . <i:xtli-dupl-yahualli
    trunc ++plant +xy>xy> (b.10 f.9 c.28 p.151)
250.  *ixyayahual*.  ixyayahual. .  ixyayaual . <i:xtli-dupl-yahualli
    trunc ++plant +xy>xy> (b.11 f.15 c.7 p.150)
251.  *ixyayahual*.  ihuan in yehhuatl in, in inelhuayo ixyayahual:
    mixnamiqui in eeloquiltic: ipahyo in aquin maxixtzacua, in ye
    itipozahua: .  and the root of this ixyayaual added to [the leaves
    of] the eloquiltic is a medicine for one who has dysuria, when the
    abdomen swells. . <i:xtli-dupl-yahualli-trunc ++plant +xy>xy>
    (b.11 f.15 c.7 p.150)
252.  *iyamoli*.  yiamoli, .  yiamolli . <++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7
    p.133)
253.  *iyamoli*.  iyamoli, .  yiamolli . <++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7
    p.220)
254.  *iyauhtli*.  yiauhtli: .  yiauhtli . <++plant> (b.11 f.14
    c.7 p.145)
255.  *iyauhtli*.  yiauhtli, .  yiauhtli . <++plant> (b.11 f.19
    c.7 p.192)
256.  *iyauhtli*.  intechalpan mochihua yiauhtli: .  it is yiauhtli
    which grows among the rocks. . <++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7
    p.197)
257.  *iyauhtli*.  quitoa, itlatla in yiauhtli. .  they say it
    resembles yiauhtli. . <++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.197)
258.  *iyexochitl*.  zazan ye iyexochitl, .  it is just an ordinary
    yiexochitl. . <iyetl-xo:chitl ++plant> (b.11 f.20 c.7 p.198)
259.  *iyexochitl*.  iyexochitl, .  yiexochitl . <iyetl-xo:chitl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.20 c.7 p.208)
260.  *iyexochitl*.  coztic iyexochitl: .  coztic yiexochitl . <iyetl
    xo:chitl ++plant> (b.11 f.20 c.7 p.208)
261.  *iyexochitl*.  zan ye yehhuatl in iyexochitl, yece tzoyac oxiyo,
    tzoyaya. .  it is the same as the yiexochitl; however, it is
    fetid, resinous; it emits a fetid odor. . <iyetl-xo:chitl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.20 c.7 p.209)
262.  *iztaquilitl*.  iztaquilitl, .  iztaquilitl . <iztatl-quilitl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.137)
263.  *iztaquilitl*.  in iquillo, iuhquin iztaquilitl, .  its foliage
    is like that of the iztac quilitl. . <iztatl-quilitl ++plant>
    (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.143)
264.  *iztaquilitl*.  in iamatlapalton, xoxoctic, iuhqui in
    iztaquilitl, mimiltotonti, .  its little leaves are green, small,
    round like those of the iztaquilitl. . <iztatl-quilitl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.149)
265.  *iztaquilitl*.  huel iuhquin iztaquilitl: .  it is just like the
    iztaquilitl. . <iztatl-quilitl ++plant> (b.11 f.15 c.7 p.157)
266.  *iztaquilitl*.  iuhqui in iztaquilitl: .  it is like the
    iztaquilitl. . <iztatl-quilitl ++plant> (b.11 f.15 c.7 p.159)
267.  *iztaquilitl*.  in ixochio iztacatontli; in iquillo huel iuhqui
    in iamatlapal iztaquilitl, .  its blossoms are small and white;
    its foliage is just like the leaves of the iztac quilitl. .
    <iztatl-quilitl ++plant> (b.11 f.18 c.7 p.181)
268.  *iztaquiltic*.  iztaquiltic .  iztaquiltic . <iztatl-v01b-delya
    c1-quilitl-tic ++plant> (b.11 f.15 c.7 p.157)
269.  *iztaquiltic*.  iztaquiltic, .  iztaquilitl . <iztatl-quilitl
    tic ++plant> (b.11 f.15 c.7 p.160)
270.  *iztauhyatia*.  tzonquiza, iztauhyatia, .  the spikelets emerge;
    it becomes like the iztauhyatl herb. . <++plant> (b.11 f.27
    c.13 p.288)
271.  *iztauhyatl*.  moneloa in iztauhyatl. .  it is mixed with
    iztauhiatl. . <++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.146)
272.  *iztauhyatl*.  mocenneloa, cuahuayahual, ihuan iztahuatl. .  it
    is mixed together with quauhyayaual and iztauhiatl. .
    <++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.147)
273.  *iztauhyatl*.  iztauhyatl. .  iztauhyatl . <++plant> (b.11
    f.16 c.7 p.165)
274.  *iztauhyatl*.  zan no iuhqui in caxtillan iztauhyatl chichic: .
    it is bitter, just like the wormwood of castile. . <++plant>
    (b.11 f.16 c.7 p.165)
275.  *iztauhyatl*.  auh in ihcuac aca huel ic mimiqui in iyollopan in
    omocentlali alahuac: moteci in iztauhyatl, ihuan in cuauhyayahual
    yehhuatl in iyollo itlacoyo: moxixipehua in ipan iehuayo, .  and
    when someone is anguished in his heart, or a humor is oppressive,
    iztauhyatl and quauhyayaual are ground up, that is, the center of
    the stalks; its surface bark is peeled off. . <++plant> (b.11
    f.16 c.7 p.165)
276.  *iztauhyatl*.  iztahuatl, .  iztauhyatl . <++plant> (b.11
    f.19 c.7 p.192)
277.  *mahtzalquilitl*.  quinamaca eloquilitl, mozoquilitl,
    tzitziquilitl, tepicquilitl, mahtzalquilitl, tzayanalquilitl,
    ahuexocaquilitl, chilquilitl, huauhquilitl, huauhquiltzontli,
    xoxocoyoli, xoxocoyolpapatla, xoxocoyolhuihuilan, cuauhxoxocoyoli,
    miccaxoxoyoli, xoxocoyolcuecuepo ayauhtona, tacanalquilitl,
    mexixi, popoyauhquilitl, atzihuequilitl, calahuauhquilitl,
    itzmiquilitl .  she sells eloquilitl, mo?oquilitl, tzitziquilitl,
    tepicquilitl, matzalquilitl, tzayanalquilitl, auexocaquilitl,
    chilquilitl, amaranth greens, amaranth heads, several varieties of
    sorrel, ayauhtonan, tacanalquilitl, watercress, popoyauhquilitl,
    atziuequilitl, calauauhquilitl, a species of purslane. . <-
    quilitl ++plant> (b.10 f.5 c.25 p.92)
278.  *mamaxtla*.  mamaxtla: .  mamaxtla . <dupl-ma:xatl--
    ++plant> (b.11 f.16 c.7 p.166)
279.  *mamaxtla*.  mocenteci in inelhuayo mamaxtla, ihuan inelhuayo
    xaltomatl .  the root of mamaxtla and the root of xaltomatl are
    ground up together. . <dupl-ma:xatl-- ++plant> (b.11 f.16 c.7
    p.166)
280.  *maticehuac*.  maticehuac, .  maticeuac . <ma:itl-ti:zatl-e:hua
    c1 ++plant> (b.11 f.18 c.7 p.182)
281.  *maxten*.  maxten: .  maxten . <++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7
    p.139)
282.  *mecaxochitl*.  no yehhuatl coni in cacahuatl ipan huei
    nacaztli, ipan tlilxochitl, mecaxochitl ipan: .  also one drinks
    chocolate with uey nacaztli, with tlilxochitl, with mecaxochitl. .
    <mecatl-xo:chitl ++plant> (b.11 f.2 c.1 p.12)
283.  *mecaxochitl*.  mecaxochitl: .  mecaxochitl . <mecatl-xo:chitl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.192)
284.  *mecaxochitl*.  mecaxochitl: .  mecaxochitl . <mecatl-xo:chitl
    .ahh ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.210)
285.  *memeya*.  memeya .  memeya . <dupl-me:ya ++plant> (b.11
    f.16 c.7 p.161)
286.  *memeyal*.  oc cenca yehhuatl quitemoa in xihuitl, in itoca
    memeyal: intlan calaqui, .  especially they seek out the plants
    called memeyal; they penetrate among them. . <dupl-me:ya-l1
    ++plant> (b.11 f.10 c.5 p.92)
287.  *memeyal*.  memeyal, .  memeyal . <dupl-me:ya-l1 ++plant>
    (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.197)
288.  *menanacatl*.  menanacatl: .  menanacatl . <metl-dupl-nacatl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.132)
289.  *mexihuitl*.  mexihuitl, .  mexiuitl . <metl-xihuitl1
    ++plant> (b.11 f.16 c.7 p.163)
290.  *mexixin*.  mexixin, .  mexixin . <mexixin ++plant> (b.11
    f.13 c.7 p.138)
291.  *miccaxoxocoyoli*.  miccaxoxocoyoli: .  miccaxoxocoyoli .
    <++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.138)
292.  *miccaxoxoyoli*.  quinamaca eloquilitl, mozoquilitl,
    tzitziquilitl, tepicquilitl, mahtzalquilitl, tzayanalquilitl,
    ahuexocaquilitl, chilquilitl, huauhquilitl, huauhquiltzontli,
    xoxocoyoli, xoxocoyolpapatla, xoxocoyolhuihuilan, cuauhxoxocoyoli,
    miccaxoxoyoli, xoxocoyolcuecuepo ayauhtona, tacanalquilitl,
    mexixi, popoyauhquilitl, atzihuequilitl, calahuauhquilitl,
    itzmiquilitl .  she sells eloquilitl, mo?oquilitl, tzitziquilitl,
    tepicquilitl, matzalquilitl, tzayanalquilitl, auexocaquilitl,
    chilquilitl, amaranth greens, amaranth heads, several varieties of
    sorrel, ayauhtonan, tacanalquilitl, watercress, popoyauhquilitl,
    atziuequilitl, calauauhquilitl, a species of purslane. .
    <++plant> (b.10 f.5 c.25 p.92)
293.  *miltomatl*.  monamictia chilcoztli, ihuan matlactetl
    ayohuachtli, ihuan miltomatl, .  yellow chili and ten gourd seeds
    and the [juice of] small tomatoes are added. . <mi:lli-tomatl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.149)
294.  *mizquiquilitl*.  mizquiquilitl, .  mizquiquilitl . <mizquitl
    quilitl ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.135)
295.  *mizquitl*.  in iamatlapal huel iuhqui in huei mizquitl. .  its
    leaves are just like those of the uei mizquitl. . <mizquitl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.15 c.7 p.157)
296.  *mozoquilitl*.  quinamaca eloquilitl, mozoquilitl,
    tzitziquilitl, tepicquilitl, mahtzalquilitl, tzayanalquilitl,
    ahuexocaquilitl, chilquilitl, huauhquilitl, huauhquiltzontli,
    xoxocoyoli, xoxocoyolpapatla, xoxocoyolhuihuilan, cuauhxoxocoyoli,
    miccaxoxoyoli, xoxocoyolcuecuepo ayauhtona, tacanalquilitl,
    mexixi, popoyauhquilitl, atzihuequilitl, calahuauhquilitl,
    itzmiquilitl .  she sells eloquilitl, mo?oquilitl, tzitziquilitl,
    tepicquilitl, matzalquilitl, tzayanalquilitl, auexocaquilitl,
    chilquilitl, amaranth greens, amaranth heads, several varieties of
    sorrel, ayauhtonan, tacanalquilitl, watercress, popoyauhquilitl,
    atziuequilitl, calauauhquilitl, a species of purslane. . <-
    quilitl ++plant> (b.10 f.5 c.25 p.92)
297.  *mozoquilitl*.  mozoquilitl, .  mo?oquilitl . <--quilitl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.136)
298.  *nacaztli*.  no yehhuatl coni in cacahuatl ipan huei nacaztli,
    ipan tlilxochitl, mecaxochitl ipan: .  also one drinks chocolate
    with uey nacaztli, with tlilxochitl, with mecaxochitl. . <nacaztli
    ++plant> (b.11 f.2 c.1 p.12)
299.  *nanacaceh*.  tzipipatli, anozo nanacace, .  tzipipatli or
    nanacace . <dupl-nacaztli-eh1 ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.144)
300.  *nanacaceh*.  nanacace: in iquillo, iuhquin eloquilitl: .  the
    foliage of nanacace is like that of eloquilitl. . <dupl-nacaztli
    eh1 ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.144)
301.  *nanacaceh*.  in nanacace chillocan huallauh: in huei patli,
    tezcatepec. .  nanacace comes from chillocan, uei patli from
    tezcatepec. . <dupl-nacaztli-eh1 ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7
    p.144)
302.  *nanacatl*.  nanacatl, cuauhtla nanacatl: amo xoxouhcacualoni,
    huel iuccini, .  mushrooms, mushrooms of the forest are not edible
    uncooked: they are to be well cooked. . <dupl-nacatl ++plant>
    (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.132)
303.  *nanahuaxihuitl*.  nanahuaxihuitl, .  nanauaxiuitl .
    <na:na:huatl-xihuitl1 ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.145)
304.  *necuametl*.  necuametl, .  nequametl . <neuctli-a:tl1-metl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.218)
305.  *netzoli*.  netzoli; .  netzoli . <netzolli ++plant
    +l.for.ll> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.218)
306.  *neuctic*.  neuctic .  necutic . <neuctli-tic ++plant> (b.11
    f.14 c.7 p.145)
307.  *nexhuauhtli*.  ihuan itoca nexhuauhtli, .  also its name is
    nexuauhtli. . <nextli-hua:uhtli ++plant> (b.11 f.27 c.13
    p.286)
308.  *nexmetl*.  nexmetl, menextic, nextic, nexehuac, xiuhtototic. .
    the nexmetl is an ashen maguey, ash-colored, ashen, like the
    lovely cotinga. . <nextli-metl ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.216)
309.  *nextamalxochitl*.  nextamalxochitl, .  nextamalxochitl .
    <nextli-tamalli-xo:chitl ++plant> (b.11 f.20 c.7 p.200)
310.  *nochnohpalli*.  iztac nochnopalli .  Iztac nochnopalli .
    <no:chtli-nohpalli ++plant> (b.11 f.12 c.6 p.123)
311.  *nohpallacotl*.  nopallacotl; pipiaztic, xochio xoxochio. .  the
    nopallacotl is slender; it has a blossom, it has blossoms. .
    <nohpalli-tlaco:tl ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.220)
312.  *nohpalli*.  in ihcuac miz can mixcahuiz: amo achtopa miz in
    omito cihuapatli, anozo nopalli: .  when it is to be drunk, it is
    just this alone, in preference to drinking the aforementioned
    ciuapatli or nopal. . <nohpalli ++plant> (b.11 f.18 c.7
    p.181)
313.  *nohpalxochitl*.  nopalxochitl: .  nopalxochitl . <nohpalli
    xo:chitl ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.210)
314.  *nopalocoxochitl*.  nopalocoxochitl, .  nopalocoxochitl .
    <nohpalli-oco:tl-xo:chitl ++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.197)
315.  *ocelometl*.  ocelometl, cuicuiltic, mocuicuilo .  the ocelometl
    is varicolored -- variously colored. . <o:ce:lo:tl-metl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.216)
316.  *oceloxochitl*.  oceloxochitl: .  oceloxochitl . <o:ce:lo:tl
    xo:chitl ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.212)
317.  *oceloxochitl*.  inic mitoa; oceloxochitl, in coztic
    motlatlapalalpichi: in chichiltic, motetecozauhalpichi, .  it is
    called oceloxochitl for the reason that the yellow ones are
    sprinkled with red, the chili-red ones are sprinkled with yellow.
    . <o:ce:lo:tl-xo:chitl ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.212)
318.  *ocopetlatl*.  ocopetlatl, .  ocopetlatl . <oco:tl-petlatl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.196)
319.  *ocopiaztli*.  ocopiaztli, anozo tlilpotonqui, .  ocopiaztli or
    tlilpotonqui . <oco:tl-piya:ztli ++plant> (b.11 f.16 c.7
    p.168)
320.  *ocoxochitl*.  ocoxochitl, .  ocoxochitl . <oco:tl-xo:chitl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.192)
321.  *ocoxochitl*.  quinenehuilia in ocoxochitl. .  it is the same as
    the ocoxochitl. . <oco:tl-xo:chitl ++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7
    p.197)
322.  *ocoxochitl*.  ocoxochitl: .  ocoxochitl . <oco:tl-xo:chitl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.213)
323.  *ocozacatl*.  ocozacatl, .  Oco?acatl . <oco:tl-zacatl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.194)
324.  *ocozacatl*.  ocozacatl nicnotlapehualtia, nicnoxacaltia. .  I
    begin, I make myself a hut with oco?acatl. . <oco:tl-zacatl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.194)
325.  *olocintli*.  ihuan itoca olocintli, .  also its name is
    olotzintli. . <o:lo:tl-tzin ++plant> (b.11 f.27 c.13 p.279)
326.  *oloxochitl*.  oloxochitl: .  oloxochitl . <o:lo:tl-xo:chitl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.211)
327.  *oloxochitl*.  in icueponca, itoca oloxochitl, .  the name of
    its blossom is oloxochitl. . <o:lo:tl-xo:chitl ++plant> (b.11
    f.21 c.7 p.211)
328.  *omixochitl*.  zan niman tlaltitech in mamatlapaltia, huihuiac
    patlactotonti, xoxoctic: iuhqui in iamatlapal caxtillan
    omixochitl, .  the leaves form right next to the ground; they are
    long, broad, green like the leaves of the spanish omixochitl. .
    <omitl-xo:chitl ++plant> (b.11 f.15 c.7 p.151)
329.  *omixochitl*.  omixochitl, ahzo iztac omixochitl, anozo
    tlapalomixochitl; .  omixochitl, or white omixochitl, or colored
    omixochitl . <omitl-xo:chitl ++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.198)
330.  *omixochitl*.  omixochitl, ahzo iztac omixochitl, anozo
    tlapalomixochitl; .  omixochitl, or white omixochitl, or colored
    omixochitl . <omitl-xo:chitl ++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.198)
331.  *omixochitl*.  omixochitl: .  omixochitl . <omitl-xo:chitl .ahh
    ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.210)
332.  *omixochitl*.  cuamalacachton, tzimpitzahuac huiyacatontli: inic
    motocayotia omixochitl, .  [it is like] a small spindle whorl on
    top; the base is slender, a little long; therefore it is named
    omixochitl. . <omitl-xo:chitl ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.210)
333.  *oquichpahtli*.  no ihuan itoca oquichpatli .  and also its name
    is oquichpatli. . <oquichtli-pahtli ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7
    p.145)
334.  *oquichpahtli*.  oquichpatli, .  oquichpatli . <oquichtli-pahtli
    ++plant> (b.11 f.18 c.7 p.182)
335.  *oquichpahtli*.  oquichpatli, .  oquichpatli . <oquichtli-pahtli
    ++plant> (b.11 f.18 c.7 p.185)
336.  *oquichxochitl*.  cempoalxochitl oquichxochitl zan ce iix, amo
    xochiamatlapaltilahuac. .  the male cempoalxochitl has only a
    single flower, with thin petals. . <oquichtli-xo:chitl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.214)
337.  *ozomahcuitlapilxochitl*.  ozomacuitlapilxochitl .
    o?omacuitlapilxochitl . <ozomahtli-cuitlatl-pilli-xo:chitl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.210)
338.  *oztopili*.  in itzin in iztac, itoca aztapili, anozo oztopili.
    .  the name of its white base is aztapili, or oztopili. .
    <++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.195)
339.  *patayametl*.  patimetl, anozo patayametl: .  patimetl or
    patayametl . <++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.217)
340.  *patimetl*.  patimetl, anozo patayametl: .  patimetl or
    patayametl . <++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.217)
341.  *petlatolin*.  petlatolli, .  petlatolli . <petlatl-to:lin
    ++plant +ll.for.l +del.n> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.195)
342.  *petlatolin*.  zan no yehhuatl in petlatoli, .  it is the same
    as the petlatoli. . <petlatl-to:lin ++plant +del.n> (b.11 f.19
    c.7 p.195)
343.  *petzicatl*.  ihcuac in oc tepiton cualoni; in ye huei itoca
    petzicatl, anozo pitzicatl .  when still small, it is edible; when
    larger its name is petzicatl or pitzicatl. . <++plant> (b.11
    f.13 c.7 p.133)
344.  *petzicatl*.  in ihuauhyo itoca petzicatl anozo pitzicatl. .
    the name of its seeds is petzicatl or pitzicatl. . <++plant>
    (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.133)
345.  *petzicatl*.  petzicatl: una yerua cuya semilla comen las
    galinas. .  petzicatl a plant whose seeds the chickens eat .
    <++plant> (b.11 f.27 c.13 p.287)
346.  *petzicatl*.  in oc tepitoton, in quin ixhua: itoca quiltonili,
    in ixinachyo itoca petzicatl, .  when still small, after it
    germinates, its name is quiltontli; the name of its seed is
    petzicatl. . <++plant> (b.11 f.27 c.13 p.287)
347.  *petzicatl*.  ihuan in ohueix, in ye tzone: no itoca petzicatl.
    .  and when it has grown, when it already has spikelets, its name
    is also petzicatl. . <++plant> (b.11 f.27 c.13 p.287)
348.  *peyotl*.  peyotl: .  peyote . <peyotl ++plant> (b.11 f.13
    c.7 p.127)
349.  *peyotl*.  peyotl: .  peyote . <peyotl ++plant> (b.11 f.14
    c.7 p.147)
350.  *pitzicatl*.  ihcuac in oc tepiton cualoni; in ye huei itoca
    petzicatl, anozo pitzicatl .  when still small, it is edible; when
    larger its name is petzicatl or pitzicatl. . <++plant> (b.11
    f.13 c.7 p.133)
351.  *pitzicatl*.  in ihuauhyo itoca petzicatl anozo pitzicatl. .
    the name of its seeds is petzicatl or pitzicatl. . <++plant>
    (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.133)
352.  *popoyauhquilitl*.  quinamaca eloquilitl, mozoquilitl,
    tzitziquilitl, tepicquilitl, mahtzalquilitl, tzayanalquilitl,
    ahuexocaquilitl, chilquilitl, huauhquilitl, huauhquiltzontli,
    xoxocoyoli, xoxocoyolpapatla, xoxocoyolhuihuilan, cuauhxoxocoyoli,
    miccaxoxoyoli, xoxocoyolcuecuepo ayauhtona, tacanalquilitl,
    mexixi, popoyauhquilitl, atzihuequilitl, calahuauhquilitl,
    itzmiquilitl .  she sells eloquilitl, mo?oquilitl, tzitziquilitl,
    tepicquilitl, matzalquilitl, tzayanalquilitl, auexocaquilitl,
    chilquilitl, amaranth greens, amaranth heads, several varieties of
    sorrel, ayauhtonan, tacanalquilitl, watercress, popoyauhquilitl,
    atziuequilitl, calauauhquilitl, a species of purslane. . <dupl
    poya:hui-l2-quilitl ++plant> (b.10 f.5 c.25 p.92)
353.  *poxcauhcamohtli*.  cequi iztac, itoca, iztac camotli,
    poxcauhcamotli: .  some are white; their name is iztac camotli
    [or] poxcauhcamotli. . <poxcahui-l2-camohtli ++plant> (b.11
    f.14 c.7 p.140)
354.  *poyomahxochitl*.  poyomaxochitl: .  poyomaxochitl . <poyomahtli
    xo:chitl ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.212)
355.  *pozahuizpahtli*.  pozahuizpatli, .  po?auizpatli . <poza:hua
    lizb-pahtli ++plant> (b.11 f.15 c.7 p.157)
356.  *quetzalmitzquitl*.  quetzalmitzquitl: .  quetzalmizquitl .
    <quetzalli-mizquitl ++plant> (b.11 f.17 c.7 p.176)
357.  *quetzalmizquitl*.  mocenteci, zan aquitzin in ixiuhyo
    quetzalmizquitl: xiuhiyac, ihuan inelhuayo xaltomatl, ihuan
    inelhuayo coztomatl. .  ground together are a very little of the
    tips of quetzalmizquitl foliage and the root of the tomato and the
    root of the yellow tomato. . <quetzalli-mizquitl ++plant>
    (b.11 f.17 c.7 p.176)
358.  *quetzalmizquitl*.  auh in yehhuatl in, in etlamanixti huel miz,
    zan mixcahuiz: anozo zan ipan calacoaz temazcalco, aocmo quimatiz
    inic totonqui temazcalli. auh in ihcuac ohualquiz temazcalco,
    anozo oachiton concua: oc no achi coniz in quetzalmizquitl. .  and
    this can be drunk in all of three ways: this alone is used; or
    just as one is to enter the sweat bath -- no longer will he feel
    the heat of the sweat bath, and when he has left the sweat bath,
    or has eaten a little, he is still to drink a little of the
    quetzalmizquitl. . <quetzalli-mizquitl ++plant> (b.11 f.17 c.7
    p.177)
359.  *quetzalmizquitl*.  in xaltomatl, in coztomatl; ye omito in
    quenami in quetzalmizquitl. .  the characteristics of the tomato,
    of the yellow tomato, of the quetzalmizquitl have already been
    told. . <quetzalli-mizquitl ++plant> (b.11 f.17 c.7 p.177)
360.  *quetzalocoxochitl*.  quetzalocoxochitl: .  quetzalocoxochitl .
    <oco:tl-xo:chitl-xo:chitl ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.213)
361.  *quiltonili*.  in oc tepitoton, in quin ixhua: itoca quiltonili,
    in ixinachyo itoca petzicatl, .  when still small, after it
    germinates, its name is quiltontli; the name of its seed is
    petzicatl. . <++plant> (b.11 f.27 c.13 p.287)
362.  *quiltonili*.  zan iyo in quiltonili cualoni: .  only the
    quiltontli is edible. . <quilitl-to:n-- ++plant> (b.11 f.27
    c.13 p.288)
363.  *quiltonilli*.  quiltonilli, .  quiltonilli . <quilitl--
    ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.133)
364.  *quiltonilli*.  inin quiltonilli huauhyo; tliltic .  this
    quiltonilli has black seeds. . <quilitl-- ++plant> (b.11 f.13
    c.7 p.133)
365.  *quimichpahtli*.  quimichpatli, .  quimichpatli . <quimichin
    pahtli ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.131)
366.  *quimichpahtli*.  inic mitoa quimichpatli: in quiquimichti,
    tlacualli quin nelhuia, intla quicua ic mimiqui, tlatlacocotoca in
    incuitlaxcol. .  it is called quimichpatli for this reason: it is
    food [for] mice, because, it is asserted, if they eat it, they die
    of it; their intestines break up. . <quimichin-pahtli ++plant>
    (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.131)
367.  *quiyoxochitl*.  quiyoxochitl: .  quiyoxochitl . <quiyotl
    xo:chitl ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.213)
368.  *tacanalli*.  tacanalli ixiuhyo, .  its leaves are tacanalli. .
    <tacanalli ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.135)
369.  *tacanalquilitl*.  quinamaca eloquilitl, mozoquilitl,
    tzitziquilitl, tepicquilitl, mahtzalquilitl, tzayanalquilitl,
    ahuexocaquilitl, chilquilitl, huauhquilitl, huauhquiltzontli,
    xoxocoyoli, xoxocoyolpapatla, xoxocoyolhuihuilan, cuauhxoxocoyoli,
    miccaxoxoyoli, xoxocoyolcuecuepo ayauhtona, tacanalquilitl,
    mexixi, popoyauhquilitl, atzihuequilitl, calahuauhquilitl,
    itzmiquilitl .  she sells eloquilitl, mo?oquilitl, tzitziquilitl,
    tepicquilitl, matzalquilitl, tzayanalquilitl, auexocaquilitl,
    chilquilitl, amaranth greens, amaranth heads, several varieties of
    sorrel, ayauhtonan, tacanalquilitl, watercress, popoyauhquilitl,
    atziuequilitl, calauauhquilitl, a species of purslane. .
    <tacanalli-quilitl ++plant> (b.10 f.5 c.25 p.92)
370.  *tacanalquilitl*.  achto motlanoquilia, zatepan quitoc, in
    cualoni xaltotomatl inelhuayo, quinamiqui, in tacanalquilitl
    inelhuayo, .  first one is purged; then [an infusion from] the
    edible root of the sand tomato is drunk, adding to it the root of
    tacanalquilitl. . <tacanalli-quilitl ++plant> (b.10 f.9 c.28
    p.160)
371.  *tacanalquilitl*.  tacanalquilitl, .  tacanalquilitl .
    <tacanalli-quilitl ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.135)
372.  *tacanalxihuitl*.  tacanalxihuitl: .  tacanalxiuitl . <tacanalli
    xihuitl1 ++plant> (b.11 f.15 c.7 p.154)
373.  *tamalayohtli*.  tamalayotli cuecueyo cacahuayo .  the
    tamalayotli gourd has ridges; it is cacao-bean-like. . <tamalli
    ayohtli ++plant> (b.11 f.27 c.13 p.288)
374.  *tecolonochnohpalli*.  tecolonochnopalli, .  tecolonochnopalli .
    <tecolo:tl-no:chtli-nohpalli ++plant> (b.11 f.12 c.6 p.124)
375.  *tecolonochnohpalli*.  tecolonochnopalli: .  tecolonochnopalli .
    <tecolo:tl-no:chtli-nohpalli ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.218)
376.  *tecolonochtli*.  tlapalnextic in ixochicuallo: auh itoca
    tecolonochtli, .  its fruit is ashen-red, and its name is
    tecolonochtli. . <tecolo:tl-no:chtli ++plant> (b.11 f.12 c.6
    p.124)
377.  *tecomaxochitl*.  no huel monamictia in coyoxochitl, ihuan
    tecomaxochitl mocenneloa, .  also coyoxochitl and tecomoxochitl
    are added, mixed all together. . <tecomatl-xo:chitl ++plant>
    (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.146)
378.  *tecomaxochitl*.  tecomaxochitl: .  tecomaxochitl . <tecomatl
    xo:chitl ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.146)
379.  *tecpaholotl*.  tecpatli, tecpaolotl, .  tecpatli, tecpalotl .
    <tecpahtli-o:lo:tl ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.133)
380.  *tecpahtli*.  tecpatli, tecpaolotl, .  tecpatli, tecpalotl .
    <tecpahtli ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.133)
381.  *tehtzonquilitl*.  tehtzonquilitl: .  tetzonquilitl . <--quilitl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.136)
382.  *tememetla*.  auh in ihcuac omoten, quiz in tlanechicolli, in
    itoca tememetla, tececec, ihuan texiotl, tlachinoltetzmitl .  and
    when she has taken a hot bath, she is to drink [an infusion of]
    assorted [herbs], named tememetla, tececec, texiotl,
    tlachinoltetzmitl. . <tetl1-dupl-metlatl-trunc ++plant> (b.10
    f.9 c.28 p.152)
383.  *tememetla*.  tememetla, .  tememetla . <tetl1-dupl-metlatl
    trunc ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.145)
384.  *tememetla*.  in quemman, zan mixcahuia: anozo moneloa in
    tememetla. .  sometimes [it is used] alone, or it is mixed with
    tememetla. . <tetl1-dupl-metlatl-trunc ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7
    p.145)
385.  *tememetla*.  tememetla; .  tememetla . <tetl1-dupl-metlatl
    trunc ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.219)
386.  *temetl*.  temetl, .  temetl . <tetl1-metl ++plant> (b.11
    f.21 c.7 p.217)
387.  *tenextlacotl*.  tenextlacotl, anozo tetlacotl .  tenextlacotl
    or tetlacotl . <++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.220)
388.  *tenohpalli*.  tenopalli: .  tenopalli . <tetl1-nohpalli
    ++plant> (b.11 f.12 c.6 p.124)
389.  *tenohpalli*.  tenopalli texotic, cuitlanextic, tilahuac, .  the
    tenopalli is light blue, ashen, thick. . <tetl1-nohpalli
    ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.218)
390.  *tenxoxoli*.  tenxoxoli, .  tenxoxoli . <++plant> (b.11 f.13
    c.7 p.131)
391.  *teocacahuatl*.  in ihcuac mochihua cuauhtlacacahuatl in ayac
    quitoca: itoca, teocacahuatl, ihuan cuappatlachtli, ihuan in
    tonacayotl: .  when wild cacao grows -- which no one plants --
    called teocacauatl and quappatlachtli, [it eats these] and maize.
    . <teo:tl-cacahuatl ++plant> (b.11 f.1 c.1 p.4)
392.  *teocalzacatl*.  ihuan itoca teocalzacatl: .  also its name is
    teocal?acatl. . <teo:tl-calli-zacatl ++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7
    p.194)
393.  *teocalzacatl*.  nicnoxacaltia, in zacamamaztli in teocalzacatl.
    .  I make myself a hut of ?acamamaztli, of teocal?acatl. . <teo:tl
    calli-zacatl ++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.194)
394.  *teocomitl*.  teocomitl; .  teocomitl . <teo:tl-co:mitl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.218)
395.  *teocomitl*.  inic mitoa teocomitl: in aquin ic mixili ihuitzyo,
    aoc huel quiza intlacamo motequi: ipampa ca zazalic, .  it is
    called teocomitl because if its spine is thrust in someone's foot,
    it can no more come out unless it is cut out, because it is
    sticky. . <teo:tl-co:mitl ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.218)
396.  *teohuauhquilitl*.  huei huauhquilitl, anozo tehuuauhquilitl, .
    uei uauhquilitl or teouauhquilitl . <teo:tl-hua:uhtli-quilitl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.135)
397.  *teohuauhtli*.  ihuan mitoa teohuauhtli, .  also it is called
    the real amaranth. . <teo:tl-hua:uhtli ++plant +ret.w> (b.11
    f.27 c.13 p.287)
398.  *teometl*.  ihuan itoca teometl: .  also its name is teometl. .
    <teo:tl-metl ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.149)
399.  *teometl*.  ihuan mitoa teometl, .  it is also called teometl. .
    <teo:tl-metl ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.217)
400.  *teonanacatl*.  mitoa teonanacatl, .  it is called teonanacatl.
    . <teo:tl-dupl-nacatl ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.130)
401.  *teonanacatl*.  nanacatl, teonanacatl atonahuizpatli. .
    nanacatl [or] teonanacatl is a fever medicine. . <teo:tl-dupl
    nacatl ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.147)
402.  *teonochtli*.  teonochtli: .  teonochtli . <++plant> (b.11
    f.21 c.7 p.219)
403.  *teotlaquili*.  teotlaquili: .  teotlaquilli . <++plant>
    (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.212)
404.  *teotlaquili*.  auh inic mitoa teotlaquili: in ihcuac cuepon
    yoac xochime, .  and hence is it called teotlaquilli: its blossom
    opens in the dark. . <teo:tlac?-- ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7
    p.213)
405.  *teotlaquili*.  auh inin xochitl teotlaquili: ipan yoac, ipan
    oncalac in tonatiuh: in icueponca i; .  and [as to] this flower,
    the teotlaquilli, it is at night, when the sun has set, that its
    opening is. . <teo:tlactli-v11-v01b-delya-l1 +l.for.ll
    ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.213)
406.  *tepeacocoxochitl*.  ihuan itoca tepeacocoxochitl, .  also its
    name is tepeacocoxochitl. . <++plant> (b.11 f.15 c.7 p.160)
407.  *tepeamalacotl*.  tepeamalacotl: .  tepeamalacotl . <tepe:tl
    amalacotl ++plant> (b.11 f.15 c.7 p.156)
408.  *tepecempohualxochitl*.  zan tepiton, iuhquin
    tepecempoalxochitl; .  it is small like the tepecempoalxochitl
    herb. . <tepe:tl-cem-po:hui-caus09-l1-xo:chitl +del.w ++plant>
    (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.145)
409.  *tepetomatl*.  tepetomatl: .  tepetomatl . <tepe:tl-tomatl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.17 c.7 p.173)
410.  *tepexiloxochitlacotl*.  monamiqui in inelhuayo
    tepexiloxochitlacotl. .  the root of the tepexiloxochitlacotl is
    added. . <tepe:tl-xi:lo:tl-xo:chitl-tlaco:tl ++plant> (b.11
    f.16 c.7 p.169)
411.  *tepexonacatl*.  tepexonacatl, .  tepexonacatl . <tepe:tl-xo:tl2
    nacatl ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.139)
412.  *tepicquilitl*.  ocommotoptemilito, ocommopetlacaltemilito in
    imitzmolinca, in incelica: in ayauhtonan, in tzitziquilitl, in
    itzmiquilitl, in tepicquilitl, in ixquich in celic, in
    itzmolinqui, .  they have gone placing in retreat their freshness,
    their tenderness, the ayauhtonan, the tzitziquilitl, the
    itzmiquilitl, the tepicquilitl herbs, all the tender, the fresh
    [ones]. . <--quilitl ++plant> (b.6 f.3 c.8 p.36)
413.  *tepicquilitl*.  quinamaca eloquilitl, mozoquilitl,
    tzitziquilitl, tepicquilitl, mahtzalquilitl, tzayanalquilitl,
    ahuexocaquilitl, chilquilitl, huauhquilitl, huauhquiltzontli,
    xoxocoyoli, xoxocoyolpapatla, xoxocoyolhuihuilan, cuauhxoxocoyoli,
    miccaxoxoyoli, xoxocoyolcuecuepo ayauhtona, tacanalquilitl,
    mexixi, popoyauhquilitl, atzihuequilitl, calahuauhquilitl,
    itzmiquilitl .  she sells eloquilitl, mo?oquilitl, tzitziquilitl,
    tepicquilitl, matzalquilitl, tzayanalquilitl, auexocaquilitl,
    chilquilitl, amaranth greens, amaranth heads, several varieties of
    sorrel, ayauhtonan, tacanalquilitl, watercress, popoyauhquilitl,
    atziuequilitl, calauauhquilitl, a species of purslane. . <-
    quilitl ++plant> (b.10 f.5 c.25 p.92)
414.  *tepicquilitl*.  tepicquilitl: .  tepicquilitl . <--quilitl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.137)
415.  *tepopotl*.  tlacopopotl, anozo tepopotl .  tlacopopotl or
    tepopotl . <++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.220)
416.  *tequequetzal*.  tequequetzal: .  tequequetzal . <++plant>
    (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.196)
417.  *tequixquizacatl*.  tequixquizacatl: .  tequixqui?acatl .
    <tequixquitl-zacatl ++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.193)
418.  *tetlacotl*.  tenextlacotl, anozo tetlacotl .  tenextlacotl or
    tetlacotl . <tetl1-tlaco:tl ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.220)
419.  *tetzilacaxochitl*.  tetzilacaxochitl: .  tetzilacaxochitl .
    <tetzi:lli-a:catl-xo:chitl ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.210)
420.  *tetzitzili*.  in quicua: tonalchichicaquilitl, cuanacaquilitl,
    coyocuexi, tetzitzili; .  it eats tonalchichicaquilitl,
    quanacaquilitl, coyocuexi, tetzitzili herbs. . <++plant> (b.11
    f.6 c.2 p.53)
421.  *tetzitzilin*.  tzompachquilitl. tetzitzilin, anozo tetzitzili,
    .  tzompachquilitl. tetzitzilin or tetzitzili . <++plant>
    (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.197)
422.  *tetzitzilin*.  tzompachquilitl. tetzitzilin, anozo tetzitzili,
    .  tzompachquilitl. tetzitzilin or tetzitzili . <+del.n
    ++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.197)
423.  *tetzitzilin*.  nechahhuahuia in tetzitzilin. .  the tetzitzilin
    pricks me. . <++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.197)
424.  *tetzmetl*.  zan achi huel iuhqui in tetzmetl, tepepan mochihua
    zan xiuhtetzmetl: .  it is just about like the tetzmetl which
    grows in the mountains; the shoot of the tetzmetl. . <++plant>
    (b.11 f.16 c.7 p.161)
425.  *tetzmetl*.  tetzmitl, anozo tetzmetl, .  tetzmitl or tetzmetl .
    <++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.219)
426.  *tetzmetl*.  ihuan quicuacuaque in tzompancuahuitl, ihuan
    quicuacuaque in tzaucxochitl, ihuan in tlaquili, ihuan in
    cuetlaxtli ihuan in mazaehuatl, quitletlehuatzaya, quimooxquiaya
    quitototopotzaya, quitotoponiaya inic quicuaya ihuan in tetzmetl,
    ihuan in xantetl quitetexoaya: .  and they gnawed colorin wood,
    and they gnawed the glue orchid and the frilled flower, and tanned
    hides and buckskin, which they roasted, baked, toasted, cooked, so
    that they could eat them; and sedum and mud bricks which they
    gnawed. . <++plant> (b.12 f.7 c.35 p.104)
427.  *tetzmitic*.  tetzmitic .  tetzmitic . <++plant> (b.11 f.16
    c.7 p.161)
428.  *tetzmitl*.  tetzmitl: .  tetzmitl . <++plant> (b.11 f.14
    c.7 p.143)
429.  *tetzmitl*.  tetzmitl, anozo tetzmetl, .  tetzmitl or tetzmetl .
    <++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.219)
430.  *tetzmitl*.  zan ye no ye in tetzmitl: yece zan tepiton, .  it
    is the same as the tetzmitl; however, it is quite small. .
    <++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.219)
431.  *tetzmolin*.  tetzmolin, .  tetzmolin . <++plant> (b.11 f.19
    c.7 p.196)
432.  *texochitl*.  texochitl, .  tesuchitl . <++plant> (b.11 f.14
    c.7 p.145)
433.  *texoxocoyoli*.  texoxocoyoli: .  texoxocoyoli . <++plant>
    (b.11 f.17 c.7 p.173)
434.  *teyiauhtli*.  teyiauhtli: .  teyiauhtli . <++plant> (b.11
    f.19 c.7 p.197)
435.  *tezhuatl*.  tezhuatl: .  tezuatl . <++plant> (b.11 f.23
    c.11 p.242)
436.  *tezompahtli*.  tezompatli, .  te?ompatli . <tezontli-pahtli
    ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.144)
437.  *tezompahtli*.  ihuan itoca tezompatli, .  also its name is
    te?onpatli. . <tezontli-pahtli ++plant> (b.11 f.18 c.7 p.182)
438.  *tlacametl*.  yehhuatl in tlacametl, .  this is tlacametl. .
    <tla:catl-metl ++plant> (b.11 f.18 c.7 p.179)
439.  *tlacametl*.  tlacametl, .  tlacametl . <tla:catl-metl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.216)
440.  *tlachinoltetzmitl*.  tlachinoltetzmitl: .  tlachinoltetzmitl .
    <++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.219)
441.  *tlachinoltetzmitl*.  tlapaltetzmitl: zan ye no yehhuatl, in
    tlachinoltetzmitl. .  the tlapaltetzmitl is the same as the
    tlachinoltetzmitl. . <++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.219)
442.  *tlacopopotl*.  ommiz tlacopopotl in inelhuayo iayo, ihuan
    tenexatl chillo, ihuan tlatzoyonilli iztauhiatl: ihuan ommiz
    tlaneloatl, itoca pihpitzahuac: .  one is to drink [an infusion
    of] tlacopopotli root, [or] lime water mixed with chili, [or] the
    water of cooked wormwood; [or] one is to drink [an infusion of]
    the root [of an herb] named pipitzauac. . <tlaco:tl-popo:tl
    ++plant> (b.10 f.9 c.28 p.149)
443.  *tlacopopotl*.  tlacopopotl, anozo tepopotl .  tlacopopotl or
    tepopotl . <tlaco:tl-popo:tl ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.220)
444.  *tlacoxihuitl*.  tlacoxihuitl: .  tlacoxiuitl . <tlaco:tl
    xihuitl1 ++plant> (b.11 f.15 c.7 p.154)
445.  *tlacoxihuitl*.  tlacoxihuitl, .  tlacoxiuitl . <tlaco:tl
    xihuitl1 ++plant> (b.11 f.15 c.7 p.158)
446.  *tlacoxochitl*.  tlacoxochitl: .  tlacoxochitl . <tlaco:tl
    xo:chitl ++plant> (b.11 f.16 c.7 p.167)
447.  *tlacoxochitl*.  tlacoxochitl, .  tlacoxochitl . <tlaco:tl
    xo:chitl ++plant> (b.11 f.17 c.7 p.176)
448.  *tlacoxochitl*.  itoca, tlacoxochitl: .  its name is
    tlacoxochitl. . <tlaco:tl-xo:chitl ++plant> (b.11 f.18 c.7
    p.182)
449.  *tlalamatl*.  tlalamatl, .  tlalamatl . <tla:lli-a:matl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.16 c.7 p.167)
450.  *tlalayohtli*.  tlalayotli, .  tlalayotli . <tla:lli-ayohtli
    ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.141)
451.  *tlalayohtli*.  xocoyoa in itlaaquillo, huel iuhqui in
    tlalayotli, .  it has fruit; its fruit is just like the
    tlalayotli. . <tla:lli-ayohtli ++plant> (b.11 f.18 c.7 p.182)
452.  *tlalcacahuatl*.  tlalcacahuatl, .  tlalcacauatl . <tla:lli
    cacahuatl ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.143)
453.  *tlalcapolin*.  ihuan tlalcapoli: .  also [it is called]
    tlalcapulin. . <tla:lli-capolin ++plant +del.n> (b.11 f.16 c.7
    p.164)
454.  *tlalcapolin*.  tlalcapoli. .  tlalcapoli . <tla:lli-capolin
    ++plant +del.n> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.197)
455.  *tlalchichic*.  tlalchichic, .  tlalchichic . <tla:lli-chichiya
    delya-c1 ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.144)
456.  *tlalchipilin*.  tlalchipili: .  tlalchipili . <tla:lli-chipilin
    +del.n ++plant> (b.11 f.15 c.7 p.158)
457.  *tlalcuitlaxcolli*.  no tzoncohuatl, in iuhqui tlalcuitlaxcolli.
    .  also tzoncoatl worms are like [the medicinal plant]
    tlalcuitlaxcolli. . <tla:lli-cuitlaxcolli ++plant> (b.11 f.10
    c.5 p.99)
458.  *tlalizquixochitl*.  tlalizquixochitl; .  tlalizquixochitl .
    <tla:lli-i:zquitl-xo:chitl ++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.198)
459.  *tlalizquixochitl*.  tlalizquixochitl: .  tlalizquixochitl .
    <tla:lli-i:zquitl-xo:chitl ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.213)
460.  *tlalmizquitl*.  tlalmizquitl, .  tlalmizquitl . <tla:lli
    mizquitl ++plant> (b.11 f.15 c.7 p.157)
461.  *tlalpoyomahtli*.  tlalpoyomatli: .  tlalpoyomatli . <tla:lli
    poyomahtli ++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.192)
462.  *tlalpoyomahtli*.  tlalpoyomatli: .  tlalpoyomatli . <tla:lli
    poyomahtli ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.212)
463.  *tlalquequetzal*.  in mococoa telchiquiuh: tocuitlapa,
    tomicicuil, tochiquiuhio, in nohuiyan tlatlaxhuizti in inacayo: ic
    moza in tlanechicolli, in nepapan xihuitl, tlalquequetzal,
    tonalxihuitl, atzitzicaztli, atzomiatl, .  if the chest, the back,
    the ribs, the rib cage hurt, if she aches in all parts of her
    body, she is anointed with a collection of divers herbs:
    tlalquequetzal, tonalxiuitl, atzitzicaztli, atzomiatl. . <tla:lli
    dupl-quetzalli-trunc ++plant> (b.10 f.9 c.28 p.152)
464.  *tlalquequetzal*.  tlalquequetzal, .  tlalquequetzal . <tla:lli
    dupl-quetzalli-trunc ++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.193)
465.  *tlalquequetzal*.  iuhquin tlalquequetzal, .  it is like the
    tlalquequetzal. . <tla:lli-dupl-quetzalli-trunc ++plant> (b.11
    f.19 c.7 p.196)
466.  *tlaltzauctli*.  tlaltzauctli. .  tlaltzacutli . <tla:lli-tzacui
    l2 ++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.197)
467.  *tlalxilotl*.  tlalxilotl, cualoni .  the tlalxilotl is edible.
    . <tla:lli-xi:lo:tl ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.141)
468.  *tlalyetl*.  tlalietl, .  tlalyetl . <++plant> (b.11 f.16
    c.7 p.162)
469.  *tlalyetl*.  tlalyetl. .  tlalyetl . <++plant> (b.11 f.19
    c.7 p.197)
470.  *tlanexnochtli*.  in itlaaquillo zan no itoca tlanexnochtli, .
    the name of its fruit is also tlanexnochtli. . <++plant> (b.11
    f.12 c.6 p.124)
471.  *tlanexnopalli*.  tlanexnopalli: .  tlanexnopalli .
    <++plant> (b.11 f.12 c.6 p.124)
472.  *tlanexnopalli*.  tlanexnopalli, cuitlanextic, .  the
    tlanexnopalli is ashen. . <++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.218)
473.  *tlapalcamohtli*.  cequi mohuitic, itoca: tlapalcamotli. .  some
    are blue; their name is tlapalcamotli. . <p51-pa:3-l1-camohtli
    ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.140)
474.  *tlapalhuacalxochitl*.  tlapalhuacalxochitl; .
    tlapaluacalxochitl . <p51-pa:3-l1-huacalli-xo:chitl ++plant>
    (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.209)
475.  *tlapalhuauhtli*.  iuhqui in tlapalhuauhtli ixochio in
    iamatlapal yahualtotonti, cuahuitztoton, tentzitziquiltic: .  its
    blossoms and its leaves are like those of the tlapalhuauhtli,
    small and round, pointed at the end, serrated along the edges. .
    <p51-pa:3-l1-hua:uhtli ++plant> (b.11 f.16 c.7 p.163)
476.  *tlapalihhuixochitl*.  tlapalihhuixochitl: zan ye yehhuatl in
    ihhuixochitl, yece chichiltic. .  the tlapaliuixochitl is the same
    as the iuixochitl; however, it is chili-red. . <p51-pa:3-l1
    ihhuitl-xo:chitl ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.211)
477.  *tlapalnochnohpalli*.  tlapalnochnopalli: zan no yehhuatl in
    tzohualnochtli. .  tlapalnochnopalli is the same as tzooalnochtli.
    . <p51-pa:3-l1-no:chtli-nohpalli ++plant> (b.11 f.12 c.6
    p.123)
478.  *tlapalomixochitl*.  omixochitl, ahzo iztac omixochitl, anozo
    tlapalomixochitl; .  omixochitl, or white omixochitl, or colored
    omixochitl . <p51-pa:3-l1-omitl-xo:chitl ++plant> (b.11 f.19
    c.7 p.198)
479.  *tlapalomixochitl*.  tlapalomixochitl: .  tlapalomixochitl .
    <p51-pa:3-l1-omitl-xo:chitl ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.210)
480.  *tlapaltetzmitl*.  tlapaltetzmitl: zan ye no yehhuatl, in
    tlachinoltetzmitl. .  the tlapaltetzmitl is the same as the
    tlachinoltetzmitl. . <++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.219)
481.  *tlaquilli*.  in axcan zan mitoa, tlaquilli. .  today it is just
    called tlaquilli. . <++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.212)
482.  *tlatlacotic*.  tlatlacotic, .  tlatlacotic . <dupl-tlaco:tl-tic
    ++plant> (b.11 f.17 c.7 p.173)
483.  *tlatlalayohtli*.  tlatlalayotli .  tlatlalayotli .
    <++plant> (b.11 f.15 c.7 p.156)
484.  *tlatlancuayeh*.  tlatlancuaye, .  tlatlanquaye . <dupl-tlani?
    cua:itl-eh1 ++plant> (b.11 f.17 c.7 p.174)
485.  *tlatlapanaltic*.  auh in ihcuac ye tetepotzo quiza ima, yicxi,
    coniz tlanoquiloni, itoca tlatlapanaltic inelhuayo, iuhquin
    caxtlatlapan, .  and if one's hands [and] one's feet become
    twisted, one is to drink a purgative, the root [of an herb] named
    tlatlapanaltic, which is like caxtlatlapan. . <p51-tlapa:ni-caus09
    l1-tic ++plant> (b.10 f.9 c.28 p.157)
486.  *tlatlauhcapahtli*.  tlatlauhcapatli, .  tlatlauhcapatli . <dupl
    tla:huitl-v11-prt1-ca:5-pahtli ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.142)
487.  *tlatocnochnohpalli*.  tlatocnochnopalli, .  tlatocnochnopalli .
    <--no:chtli-nohpalli ++plant> (b.11 f.12 c.6 p.123)
488.  *tlatocnochtli*.  zacatlaxcalyayactic: in itech quiquiza, itoca
    tlatocnochtli, .  [the tuna] is dark yellow; thence comes its
    name, tlatocnochtli. . <--no:chtli ++plant> (b.11 f.12 c.6
    p.123)
489.  *tlatocnohpalli*.  tlatocnopalli: .  tlatocnopalli . <--nohpalli
    ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.217)
490.  *tlazolnochnohpalli*.  tlazolnochnopalli: zan no yehhuatl in
    anochtli. .  tla?olnochnopalli is the same as anochtli. .
    <tlazo:lli-no:chtli-nohpalli ++plant> (b.11 f.12 c.6 p.123)
491.  *tletlemaitl*.  ixyahyapalehualiztli, inezca itic mani
    xochicihuiztli, nanahuatl, ahzo cana tlapalani, anozo quexilihui:
    coniz zan xoxouhqui in itoca tletlemaitl: .  for face wheals, the
    traces of which appear internally from hemorrhoids, pustules, or
    inflammation somewhere, perhaps in the groin, one is to drink raw
    [the sap of the herb] called tletlemaitl. . <dupl-tletl1-ma:itl
    ++plant> (b.10 f.8 c.28 p.142)
492.  *tlilpotonqui*.  ocopiaztli, anozo tlilpotonqui, .  ocopiaztli
    or tlilpotonqui . <++plant> (b.11 f.16 c.7 p.168)
493.  *tlilxochitl*.  no yehhuatl coni in cacahuatl ipan huei
    nacaztli, ipan tlilxochitl, mecaxochitl ipan: .  also one drinks
    chocolate with uey nacaztli, with tlilxochitl, with mecaxochitl. .
    <tli:lli-xo:chitl ++plant> (b.11 f.2 c.1 p.12)
494.  *tlilxochitl*.  xoxoctic in iexoyo: auh in ohuac tliltic; ic
    mitoa. tlilxochitl, .  its bean is green, but it is black when
    dried; wherefore it is called tlilxochitl. . <tli:lli-xo:chitl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.198)
495.  *tlilxochitl*.  tlilxochitl, .  tlilxochitl . <tli:lli-xo:chitl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.210)
496.  *tochnacazhuacalxochitl*.  tochnacazhuacalxochitl, .
    tochnacazuacalxochitl . <to:chin-nacaztli-huacalli-xo:chitl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.209)
497.  *tochquiquiztli*.  in quicua tochquiquiztli iyacacelica ihuan
    tlacalhuazcuahuitl iyacacelica: ihcuac in amo tle quitta itlacual.
    .  it eats tender shoots of tochquiquiztli and tender shoots of
    tlacalhuazquauitl when it finds no other food. . <++plant>
    (b.11 f.1 c.1 p.4)
498.  *tochtetepon*.  tochtetepon: .  tochtetepon . <to:chin--
    ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.130)
499.  *tolcimaquilitl*.  tolcimaquilitl; .  tolcimaquilitl . <to:lin
    cimatl-quilitl ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.140)
500.  *tolcimatl*.  tolcimatl .  tolcimatl . <to:lin-cimatl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.6 p.126)
501.  *tolcimatl*.  in inelhuayo: itoca: tolcimatl, .  the name of its
    root is tolcimatl. . <to:lin-cimatl ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7
    p.140)
502.  *tolcimatl*.  in inelhuayo: za ce iuhquin tolcimatl neuctica
    chichic: .  its root is just like that of the tolcimatl; it is
    bittersweet. . <to:lin-cimatl ++plant> (b.11 f.15 c.7 p.156)
503.  *tolcimatl*.  in inelhuayo iztac in pani ihuan in tlani: iuhqui
    in tolcimatl, .  its root is white on the surface and like the
    tolcimatl inside. . <to:lin-cimatl ++plant> (b.11 f.16 c.7
    p.167)
504.  *tolmimilli*.  tolmimilli, .  tolmimilli . <to:lin-mimilli
    ++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.195)
505.  *tolnacochtli*.  tolnacochtli, .  tolnacochtli . <to:lin
    nacochtli ++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.195)
506.  *toloa*.  toloa: .  toloa . <to:loa: ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7
    p.147)
507.  *tolpatlactic*.  tolpatlactic, xexeltic: .  it is spreading,
    like the tolpatlactli. . <to:lin-patla:hua-l2-tic +w>k
    ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.211)
508.  *tolpatlacticapil*.  in itapalcayo, tzopelic: in iquillo in
    ixiuhyo tolpatlacticapil. .  its shell is sweet; its foliage, its
    leaves, are a little like the tolpatlactli. . <++plant> (b.11
    f.13 c.6 p.126)
509.  *tolpatlactli*.  tolpatlactli. .  tolpatlactli . <to:lin
    patla:hua-l2 +w>k ++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.195)
510.  *tolyaman*.  quinamaca alahuacapetlatl, ezpetlatl,
    petlatlacuilolli, cuicuiliuhqui, zoyapetlatl, tompiyatli,
    zoyatompiatli, tolpetlatl, tolyaman, nacaze, tolcuexzolli,
    tolpapatztli, tolxacualli, tlatzonantli, .  he sells smooth reed
    mats, red reed mats, painted reed mats, varicolored ones; palm
    leaf mats, small deep baskets, small deep baskets of palm leaves;
    reed mats -- reed mats, mats of triangular reeds, mats of thick
    reeds, mats of bruised reeds, mats of frayed reeds, selected mats.
    . <to:lin-yama:ni-trunc ++plant> (b.10 f.5 c.24 p.86)
511.  *tolyaman*.  tolyaman, .  toliaman . <to:lin-yama:ni-trunc
    ++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.195)
512.  *tolyaman*.  nicpetlachihua in tolyama in atoli. .  I make mats
    of toliaman, of atolin. . <to:lin-yama:ni-trunc ++plant
    +del.n> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.195)
513.  *tonacaxochitl*.  tonacaxochitl, .  tonacaxcchitl . <to:n2-v12
    ca:5-xo:chitl ++plant> (b.11 f.17 c.7 p.175)
514.  *tonacaxochitl*.  ca itztic in tonacaxochitl, .  the
    tonacaxochitl is cooling. . <to:n2-v12-ca:5-xo:chitl ++plant>
    (b.11 f.17 c.7 p.175)
515.  *tonacaxochitl*.  huel mixcahuia in tonacaxochitl, quinamiqui in
    cacahuatl in mi: .  the tonacaxochitl can be taken alone; it is
    added to cacao when drunk. . <to:n2-v12-ca:5-xo:chitl ++plant>
    (b.11 f.17 c.7 p.175)
516.  *tonalchichicaquilitl*.  tonalchichicaquilitl, .
    tonalchichicaquilitl . <to:n2-v12-l1-chichiya-delya-ca:5-quilitl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.137)
517.  *tonalxihuitl*.  in mococoa telchiquiuh: tocuitlapa, tomicicuil,
    tochiquiuhio, in nohuiyan tlatlaxhuizti in inacayo: ic moza in
    tlanechicolli, in nepapan xihuitl, tlalquequetzal, tonalxihuitl,
    atzitzicaztli, atzomiatl, .  if the chest, the back, the ribs, the
    rib cage hurt, if she aches in all parts of her body, she is
    anointed with a collection of divers herbs: tlalquequetzal,
    tonalxiuitl, atzitzicaztli, atzomiatl. . <to:n2-v12-l1-xihuitl1
    ++plant> (b.10 f.9 c.28 p.152)
518.  *tonalxihuitl*.  tonalxihuitl: .  tonalxiuitl . <to:n2-v12-l1
    xihuitl1 ++plant> (b.11 f.16 c.7 p.167)
519.  *tonalxihuitl*.  tonalxihuitl .  tonalxiuitl . <to:n2-v12-l1
    xihuitl1 ++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.197)
520.  *tonalxihuitl*.  inic mitoa tonalxihuitl, ihcuac in tonalco,
    xoxohuia, in cueponi. .  it is called tonalxiuitl because it
    becomes green, it blossoms in the summer. . <to:n2-v12-l1-xihuitl1
    ++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.197)
521.  *tonalxochitl*.  tonalxochitl: .  tonalxochitl . <to:n2-v12-l1
    xo:chitl ++plant> (b.11 f.20 c.7 p.198)
522.  *tonalxochitl*.  inic mitoa tonalxochitl, tlalhuacpa in
    mochihua: .  it is called tonalxochitl because it grows in dry
    ground. . <to:n2-v12-l1-xo:chitl ++plant> (b.11 f.20 c.7
    p.198)
523.  *topozan*.  achi iuhqui in topozan, yece zan xoxoctic in
    iquillo: .  it is somewhat like topo?an; however, its leaves are
    greenish. . <++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.146)
524.  *totoncaxihuitl*.  totoncaxihuitl: .  totoncaxiuitl .
    <++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.150)
525.  *tozancuitlaxcolli*.  tozancuitlaxcolli: .  to?ancuitlaxcolli .
    <tozan-cuitlaxcolli ++plant> (b.11 f.15 c.7 p.151)
526.  *toztlatzompili*.  zan no yehhuatl in toztlatzompili. .  it is
    the same as the toztlatzompili. . <++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7
    p.210)
527.  *tzaponochnohpalli*.  tzaponochnopalli: .  tzaponochnopalli .
    <tzapotl-no:chtli-nohpalli ++plant> (b.11 f.12 c.6 p.124)
528.  *tzaponochtli*.  in ixochicuallo itoca tzaponochtli, .  the name
    of its fruit is tzaponochtli. . <tzapotl-no:chtli ++plant>
    (b.11 f.12 c.6 p.124)
529.  *tzatzayanalquiltic*.  tzatzayanalquiltic, .  tzatzayanalquiltic
    . <dupl-tzaya:ni-caus09-l1-quilitl ++plant> (b.11 f.16 c.7
    p.162)
530.  *tzauctli*.  tzauctli, .  tzacutli . <tzacui-l2 ++plant>
    (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.197)
531.  *tzauctli*.  in inelhuayo, zazalic: yehhuatl in motocayotia
    tzauctli, .  its root is sticky; this is named tzacutli. . <tzacui
    l2 ++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.197)
532.  *tzauctli*.  iuhquin tzauctli ixiuhyo, .  its foliage is like
    that of the tzacutli. . <tzacui-l2 ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7
    p.211)
533.  *tzaucxochitl*.  tzaucxochitl xihuitl .  tzacuxochitl xiuitl .
    <tzacui-l2-xo:chitl ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.211)
534.  *tzayanalquilitl*.  ihuan in ixquich tlamantli quilitl cualoni,
    xonacatl, tzayanalquilitl, huitzquilitl, huauhquilitl,
    huauhtzontli, itzmiquilitl, quillanenel, iztac xoxocoyoli,
    xoxocoyolhuihuilan, .  and all manner of edible herbs -- onions,
    water plant leaves, thistles, amaranth greens and heads, purslane,
    mixed greens, varieties of sorrel; . <tzaya:ni-caus09-l1-quilitl
    ++plant> (b.8 f.4 c.19 p.68)
535.  *tzayanalquilitl*.  quinamaca eloquilitl, mozoquilitl,
    tzitziquilitl, tepicquilitl, mahtzalquilitl, tzayanalquilitl,
    ahuexocaquilitl, chilquilitl, huauhquilitl, huauhquiltzontli,
    xoxocoyoli, xoxocoyolpapatla, xoxocoyolhuihuilan, cuauhxoxocoyoli,
    miccaxoxoyoli, xoxocoyolcuecuepo ayauhtona, tacanalquilitl,
    mexixi, popoyauhquilitl, atzihuequilitl, calahuauhquilitl,
    itzmiquilitl .  she sells eloquilitl, mo?oquilitl, tzitziquilitl,
    tepicquilitl, matzalquilitl, tzayanalquilitl, auexocaquilitl,
    chilquilitl, amaranth greens, amaranth heads, several varieties of
    sorrel, ayauhtonan, tacanalquilitl, watercress, popoyauhquilitl,
    atziuequilitl, calauauhquilitl, a species of purslane. . <tzaya:ni
    caus09-l1-quilitl ++plant> (b.10 f.5 c.25 p.92)
536.  *tzayanalquilitl*.  tzayanalquilitl; .  tzayanalquilitl .
    <tzaya:ni-caus09-l1-quilitl ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.136)
537.  *tzayanalquilitl*.  inic mitoa, tzayanalquilitl: tzatzayanqui in
    iyollo. .  it is called tzayanalquilitl for this reason: the
    center of [the stem] is split. . <tzaya:ni-caus09-l1-quilitl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.136)
538.  *tzihuactli*.  tzihuactli .  tziuactli . <tzi:huactli
    ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.218)
539.  *tzihuactli*.  itoca, tzihuactli .  its name is tziuactli. .
    <tzi:huactli ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.218)
540.  *tzihuinquilitl*.  tzihuinquilitl, anozo atzihuenquilitl, .
    tziuinquilitl or atziuenquilitl . <--quilitl ++plant> (b.11
    f.13 c.7 p.135)
541.  *tzilacayohmetl*.  tzilacayometl, mocuicuicuilo,
    moztacatzitzicuitz. .  the tzilacayometl is varicolored, spattered
    with white. . <tzilacatl-ayohtli-metl ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7
    p.217)
542.  *tzilacayohtli*.  tzilacayotli: otra manera de calabazas lisas i
    pintadas. .  tzilacayotli: another kind of smooth, dappled squash
    . <tzilacatl-ayohtli ++plant> (b.11 f.27 c.13 p.288)
543.  *tzilacayohtli*.  in tzilacayotli, iyollo tliltic,
    yahualtotonti: in oc ceppa nepa iyollo, inin ayohuachtli, iztac .
    the center of the tzilacayotli is black, small and round; yet
    again, earlier, its center, this gourd seed, is white. .
    <tzilacatl-ayohtli ++plant> (b.11 f.27 c.13 p.288)
544.  *tzipipahtli*.  tzipipatli, anozo nanacace, .  tzipipatli or
    nanacace . <tzi:pitl-pahtli ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.144)
545.  *tzipipahtli*.  oc no centlamantli tzipipatli, anozo huei patli,
    tlanelhuatl ololtic, .  still another kind, tzipipatli or uei
    patli, [has] a round root. . <tzi:pitl-pahtli ++plant> (b.11
    f.14 c.7 p.144)
546.  *tzitzicazquilitl*.  tzitzicazquilitl, .  tzitzicazquilitl .
    <tzi:tzica:ztli-quilitl ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.135)
547.  *tzitzintlapatl*.  tzitzintlapatl: .  tzintlapatl . <tzitzimitl
    tla:pa:tl ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.130)
548.  *tzitziquilitl*.  quinamaca eloquilitl, mozoquilitl,
    tzitziquilitl, tepicquilitl, mahtzalquilitl, tzayanalquilitl,
    ahuexocaquilitl, chilquilitl, huauhquilitl, huauhquiltzontli,
    xoxocoyoli, xoxocoyolpapatla, xoxocoyolhuihuilan, cuauhxoxocoyoli,
    miccaxoxoyoli, xoxocoyolcuecuepo ayauhtona, tacanalquilitl,
    mexixi, popoyauhquilitl, atzihuequilitl, calahuauhquilitl,
    itzmiquilitl .  she sells eloquilitl, mo?oquilitl, tzitziquilitl,
    tepicquilitl, matzalquilitl, tzayanalquilitl, auexocaquilitl,
    chilquilitl, amaranth greens, amaranth heads, several varieties of
    sorrel, ayauhtonan, tacanalquilitl, watercress, popoyauhquilitl,
    atziuequilitl, calauauhquilitl, a species of purslane. . <-
    quilitl ++plant> (b.10 f.5 c.25 p.92)
549.  *tzitziquilitl*.  tzitziquilitl, .  tzitziquilitl . <--quilitl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.136)
550.  *tzohualnochnohpalli*.  tzohualnochnopalli: .  tzooalnochnopalli
    . <tzoa-l1-no:chtli-nohpalli +insert.w ++plant> (b.11 f.12 c.6
    p.123)
551.  *tzohualnochtli*.  in itech quiza, in itlaaquillo itoca,
    tzohualnochtli, .  from it comes its fruit named tzooalnochtli. .
    <tzoa-l1-no:chtli +insert.w ++plant> (b.11 f.12 c.6 p.123)
552.  *tzohualnochtli*.  tlapalnochnopalli: zan no yehhuatl in
    tzohualnochtli. .  tlapalnochnopalli is the same as tzooalnochtli.
    . <tzoa-l1-no:chtli +insert.w ++plant> (b.11 f.12 c.6 p.123)
553.  *tzompachquilitl*.  tzompachquilitl. tetzitzilin, anozo
    tetzitzili, .  tzompachquilitl. tetzitzilin or tetzitzili . <-
    quilitl ++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.197)
554.  *tzompoton*.  tzompoton, .  tzompoton . <++plant> (b.11 f.18
    c.7 p.184)
555.  *tzontecomananacatl*.  tzontecomananacatl, .  tzontecomananacatl
    . <tzontli-tecomatl-dupl-nacatl ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7
    p.132)
556.  *xalacocohtli*.  miecpa in ommotlaliz, mixnamiquiz, in inelhuayo
    xalacocotli: tomahuac, iuhquin cuauhnelhuatl, achi cococ: .  many
    times, when it is to be placed on, one is to add the root of the
    xalacocotli, [which is] thick like a tree root; it is somewhat
    burning. . <xa:lli-a:tl1-co:cohtli ++plant> (b.11 f.16 c.7
    p.168)
557.  *xalacocohtli*.  auh inin xalacocotli iquiyoyo, ihticoyonqui,
    iuhqui in caxtillan acatl: .  and the stems of this xalacocotli
    are hollow within like the reeds of castile. . <xa:lli-a:tl1
    co:cohtli ++plant> (b.11 f.16 c.7 p.168)
558.  *xalacocohtli*.  xalacocotli: .  xalacocotli . <xa:lli-a:tl1
    co:cohtli ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.212)
559.  *xaltomaquilitl*.  xaltomaquilitl. .  xaltomaquilitl . <xa:lli
    tomatl-quilitl ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.136)
560.  *xaltomatl*.  in itlacual, i, coyotl: nacatl, nacaxoxouhqui:
    cintli, elotl, ohuatl, xaltomatl, nochtli, capolin, tamalli,
    tlaxcalli, neuctli. .  the foods of this coyote are meat, raw
    meat, ripe maize ears, green maize ears, green maize stalks,
    tomatoes, tunas, american cherries, tamales, tortillas, honey. .
    <xa:lli-tomatl ++plant> (b.11 f.1 c.1 p.7)
561.  *xaltomatl*.  xaltomatl .  xaltomatl . <xa:lli-tomatl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.6 p.127)
562.  *xaltomatl*.  xaltomatl, xaltotomatl .  xaltomatl [or]
    xaltotomatl . <xa:lli-tomatl ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.140)
563.  *xaltomatl*.  xaltomatl .  xaltomatl . <xa:lli-tomatl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.15 c.7 p.153)
564.  *xaltomatl*.  in xaltomatl, .  the xaltomatl . <xa:lli-tomatl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.16 c.7 p.166)
565.  *xaltomatl*.  mocenteci in inelhuayo mamaxtla, ihuan inelhuayo
    xaltomatl .  the root of mamaxtla and the root of xaltomatl are
    ground up together. . <xa:lli-tomatl ++plant> (b.11 f.16 c.7
    p.166)
566.  *xaltomatl*.  mocenteci, zan aquitzin in ixiuhyo
    quetzalmizquitl: xiuhiyac, ihuan inelhuayo xaltomatl, ihuan
    inelhuayo coztomatl. .  ground together are a very little of the
    tips of quetzalmizquitl foliage and the root of the tomato and the
    root of the yellow tomato. . <xa:lli-tomatl ++plant> (b.11
    f.17 c.7 p.176)
567.  *xaltomatl*.  in xaltomatl, in coztomatl; ye omito in quenami in
    quetzalmizquitl. .  the characteristics of the tomato, of the
    yellow tomato, of the quetzalmizquitl have already been told. .
    <xa:lli-tomatl ++plant> (b.11 f.17 c.7 p.177)
568.  *xaltomaxihuitl*.  icapollo: in xaltomaxihuitl, .  it is the
    fruit of the xaltomatl herb. . <xa:lli-tomatl-xihuitl1
    ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.140)
569.  *xaltotomatl*.  xaltomatl, xaltotomatl .  xaltomatl [or]
    xaltotomatl . <xa:lli-dupl-tomatl ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7
    p.140)
570.  *xelhuaznanacatl*.  xelhuaznanacatl, .  xehuaznanacatl . <xelli
    hua:ztli-dupl-nacatl ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.132)
571.  *xicamoxihuitl*.  xicamoxihuitl: .  xicamoxiuitl . <++plant>
    (b.11 f.13 c.6 p.125)
572.  *xilometl*.  xilometl, mapitzahuac. .  the xilometl has slender
    leaves. . <++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.217)
573.  *xiloxochitl*.  in itoca xiloxochitl, zan quezqui in iuhqui
    xilotzontli inic moyahuatica: .  a few, [like] those named
    xiloxochitl, are spread in the manner of corn silk. . <xi:lo:tl
    xo:chitl ++plant> (b.11 f.16 c.7 p.169)
574.  *xiloxochitlacotl*.  auh inin xiloxochitlacotl tepitztic,
    tlacuahuac, .  and this xiloxochitlacotl is hard, firm. .
    <xi:lo:tl-xo:chitl-tlaco:tl ++plant> (b.11 f.16 c.7 p.169)
575.  *xitomatl*.  yollopiciltic iuhquin xitomatl. .  the centers are
    tiny like tomato [seeds]. . <++plant> (b.11 f.12 c.6 p.124)
576.  *xiuhtetzmetl*.  zan achi huel iuhqui in tetzmetl, tepepan
    mochihua zan xiuhtetzmetl: .  it is just about like the tetzmetl
    which grows in the mountains; the shoot of the tetzmetl. .
    <++plant> (b.11 f.16 c.7 p.161)
577.  *xiuhteuczacatl*.  xiuhteuczacatl: .  xiuhtecu?acatl . <xihuitl1
    te:uctli-zacatl ++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.194)
578.  *xiuhteuczacatl*.  tlatlactic: inic mitoa xiuhteuczacatl. .  it
    is ruddy; hence is it called xiuhtecu?acatl. . <xihuitl1-te:uctli
    zacatl ++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.194)
579.  *xochicamohtli*.  cequi coztic, itoca xochicamotli: .  some are
    yellow; their name is xochicamotli. . <xo:chitl-camohtli
    ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.140)
580.  *xoconochnohpalli*.  xoconochnopalli, .  xoconochnopalli .
    <xocotl-no:chtli-nohpalli ++plant> (b.11 f.12 c.6 p.124)
581.  *xoconochnohpalli*.  xoconochnopalli, .  xoconochnopalli .
    <xocotl-no:chtli-nohpalli ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.218)
582.  *xoconochtli*.  in itlaaquillo, itoca xoconochtli, .  the name
    of its fruit is xoconochtli. . <xocotl-no:chtli ++plant> (b.11
    f.12 c.6 p.124)
583.  *xocoyoli*.  xocoyoli, zan no yehhuatl in xoxocoyoli. .
    xocoyoli is the same as xoxocoyoli. . <++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7
    p.138)
584.  *xonacatl*.  quil itlatla in xonacatl, .  they say it is some
    kind of onion. . <xo:tl2-nacatl ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7
    p.139)
585.  *xonacatontli*.  iuhquin xonacatontli. .  it is like a little
    onion. . <xo:tl2-nacatl-to:n-tl ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7
    p.147)
586.  *xonecuilpahtli*.  xonecuilpatli, .  xonecuilpatli . <--necuilli
    pahtli ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.146)
587.  *xoxocoyolcuecuepo*.  quinamaca eloquilitl, mozoquilitl,
    tzitziquilitl, tepicquilitl, mahtzalquilitl, tzayanalquilitl,
    ahuexocaquilitl, chilquilitl, huauhquilitl, huauhquiltzontli,
    xoxocoyoli, xoxocoyolpapatla, xoxocoyolhuihuilan, cuauhxoxocoyoli,
    miccaxoxoyoli, xoxocoyolcuecuepo ayauhtona, tacanalquilitl,
    mexixi, popoyauhquilitl, atzihuequilitl, calahuauhquilitl,
    itzmiquilitl .  she sells eloquilitl, mo?oquilitl, tzitziquilitl,
    tepicquilitl, matzalquilitl, tzayanalquilitl, auexocaquilitl,
    chilquilitl, amaranth greens, amaranth heads, several varieties of
    sorrel, ayauhtonan, tacanalquilitl, watercress, popoyauhquilitl,
    atziuequilitl, calauauhquilitl, a species of purslane. .
    <++plant> (b.10 f.5 c.25 p.92)
588.  *xoxocoyolcuecuepoc*.  xoxocoyolcuecuepoc, .  xoxocoyolcuecuepoc
    . <++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.138)
589.  *xoxocoyolcuecuepoc*.  xochio cueponqui. inic mitoa
    xoxocoyolcuecuepoc: .  it has blossoms, it is a blossomer, so it
    is called xoxocoyolcuecuepoc. . <++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7
    p.138)
590.  *xoxocoyolhuihuilan*.  quinamaca eloquilitl, mozoquilitl,
    tzitziquilitl, tepicquilitl, mahtzalquilitl, tzayanalquilitl,
    ahuexocaquilitl, chilquilitl, huauhquilitl, huauhquiltzontli,
    xoxocoyoli, xoxocoyolpapatla, xoxocoyolhuihuilan, cuauhxoxocoyoli,
    miccaxoxoyoli, xoxocoyolcuecuepo ayauhtona, tacanalquilitl,
    mexixi, popoyauhquilitl, atzihuequilitl, calahuauhquilitl,
    itzmiquilitl .  she sells eloquilitl, mo?oquilitl, tzitziquilitl,
    tepicquilitl, matzalquilitl, tzayanalquilitl, auexocaquilitl,
    chilquilitl, amaranth greens, amaranth heads, several varieties of
    sorrel, ayauhtonan, tacanalquilitl, watercress, popoyauhquilitl,
    atziuequilitl, calauauhquilitl, a species of purslane. .
    <++plant> (b.10 f.5 c.25 p.92)
591.  *xoxocoyolhuihuila*.  xoxocoyolhuihuila, .  xoxocoyohuiuila . <-
    dupl-huila:na-l2 ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.138)
592.  *xoxocoyoli*.  quinamaca eloquilitl, mozoquilitl, tzitziquilitl,
    tepicquilitl, mahtzalquilitl, tzayanalquilitl, ahuexocaquilitl,
    chilquilitl, huauhquilitl, huauhquiltzontli, xoxocoyoli,
    xoxocoyolpapatla, xoxocoyolhuihuilan, cuauhxoxocoyoli,
    miccaxoxoyoli, xoxocoyolcuecuepo ayauhtona, tacanalquilitl,
    mexixi, popoyauhquilitl, atzihuequilitl, calahuauhquilitl,
    itzmiquilitl .  she sells eloquilitl, mo?oquilitl, tzitziquilitl,
    tepicquilitl, matzalquilitl, tzayanalquilitl, auexocaquilitl,
    chilquilitl, amaranth greens, amaranth heads, several varieties of
    sorrel, ayauhtonan, tacanalquilitl, watercress, popoyauhquilitl,
    atziuequilitl, calauauhquilitl, a species of purslane. .
    <++plant> (b.10 f.5 c.25 p.92)
593.  *xoxocoyoli*.  xoxocoyoli, .  xoxocoyoli . <++plant> (b.11
    f.13 c.7 p.138)
594.  *xoxocoyoli*.  xocoyoli, zan no yehhuatl in xoxocoyoli. .
    xocoyoli is the same as xoxocoyoli. . <++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7
    p.138)
595.  *xoxocoyolpapatla*.  quinamaca eloquilitl, mozoquilitl,
    tzitziquilitl, tepicquilitl, mahtzalquilitl, tzayanalquilitl,
    ahuexocaquilitl, chilquilitl, huauhquilitl, huauhquiltzontli,
    xoxocoyoli, xoxocoyolpapatla, xoxocoyolhuihuilan, cuauhxoxocoyoli,
    miccaxoxoyoli, xoxocoyolcuecuepo ayauhtona, tacanalquilitl,
    mexixi, popoyauhquilitl, atzihuequilitl, calahuauhquilitl,
    itzmiquilitl .  she sells eloquilitl, mo?oquilitl, tzitziquilitl,
    tepicquilitl, matzalquilitl, tzayanalquilitl, auexocaquilitl,
    chilquilitl, amaranth greens, amaranth heads, several varieties of
    sorrel, ayauhtonan, tacanalquilitl, watercress, popoyauhquilitl,
    atziuequilitl, calauauhquilitl, a species of purslane. .
    <++plant> (b.10 f.5 c.25 p.92)
596.  *xoxocoyolpapatla*.  xoxocoyolpapatla, .  xoxocoyolpapatla .
    <++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.138)
597.  *xoxocoyolpapatla*.  papatlahuac. inic mitoa xoxocoyolpapatla: .
    [they are] broad; for this reason is it called xoxocoyolpapatla. .
    <++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.138)
598.  *xoxocoyolpatlac*.  iuhquin xoxocoyolpatlac, yece
    tetepontomahuac. totomio, .  it is like the xoxocoyolpatlac;
    however, the stalk is stubby, thick, hairy. . <++plant> (b.11
    f.14 c.7 p.138)
599.  *xoxocoyoltic*.  no ihuan ixpatli in xoxocoyoltic, .  xoxocoltic
    is also an eye medicine. . <++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.145)
600.  *xoxocoyoltic*.  xoxocoyoltic .  xoxocoyoltic . <.aho
    ++plant> (b.11 f.15 c.7 p.154)
601.  *xoxocoyoltic*.  in tlanelhuatl moneloz olli, ihuan
    xoxocoyoltic: ic quipachilhuizque in inacayo; in omito icihuayo, .
    the root is to be mixed with rubber and the herb xoxocoyoltic,
    which they are to press in her body, as has been said -- in her
    vagina. . <++plant> (b.11 f.18 c.7 p.186)
602.  *xoxocoyoltic*.  in xoxocoyoltic: ye omito in quenami. .  the
    nature of xoxocoyoltic has already been mentioned. . <++plant>
    (b.11 f.18 c.7 p.186)
603.  *xoxotla*.  xoxotla .  xoxotla . <dupl-xo:tla1 ++plant>
    (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.197)
604.  *xoxotla*.  inic mitoa xoxotla, chichiltic, in ixochio
    huelletic. .  it is called xoxotla because its blossom is chili
    red, just like a flame. . <dupl-xo:tla1 ++plant> (b.11 f.19
    c.7 p.197)
605.  *xoxotlatzin*.  xoxotlatzin, .  xoxotlatzin . <++plant>
    (b.11 f.16 c.7 p.167)
606.  *xoxouhcapahtli*.  xoxouhcapatli: .  xoxouhcapatli . <dupl
    xo:tl2-v11-prt1-ca:5-pahtli ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.146)
607.  *xoxouhcapahtli*.  ihuan xoxouhcapatli: .  also [it is called]
    xoxouhcapatli. . <dupl-xo:tl2-v11-prt1-ca:5-pahtli ++plant>
    (b.11 f.17 c.7 p.171)
608.  *yacatzotl*.  yacatzotl: chichiltic. .  yacatzotl. it is chili
    red. . <yacatl-tzotl ++plant> (b.11 f.27 c.13 p.287)
609.  *yapaxihuitl*.  ic mopotonia in tlanechicolli, in ocotl cenca
    tzomonqui, ihuan chichic cuahuitl, ihuan iztauhiatl, ihuan
    calcuechtli, ihuan yapaxihuitl inelhuayo, ihuan achi iztatl,
    capolxihuitl, ihuan itzcuimpatli: .  a poultice of assorted
    [powdered herbs] is applied: very hot pine [resin] and chichic
    quauitl and wormwood, and soot, and yapaxiuitl root, and a little
    salt, cherry leaves, and itzcuinpatli. . <++plant> (b.10 f.9
    c.28 p.149)
610.  *yauhtli*.  zan no iuhqui in yauhtli, .  it is the same as
    yauhtli. . <++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.146)
611.  *yecayohtli*.  ayotli: anozo yecayotli calabazas destas tierras
    que se comen .  gourd or yecayotli native edible squashes .
    <++plant> (b.11 f.27 c.13 p.288)
612.  *yecayohtli*.  in yecayotli iyollo, itoca ayohuachtli, .  the
    name of the center of the yecayotli is gourd seed. . <--ayohtli
    ++plant> (b.11 f.27 c.13 p.288)
613.  *yohualxochitl*.  yoalxochitl: .  yoalxochitl . <yohua-l1
    xo:chitl ++plant +del.w> (b.11 f.17 c.7 p.177)
614.  *yopixochitl*.  yopixochitl, .  yopixochitl . <++plant>
    (b.11 f.20 c.7 p.209)
615.  *zacacili*.  zacacili: .  ?acacili . <++plant> (b.11 f.15
    c.7 p.151)
616.  *zacamamaztli*.  zacamamaztli, .  ?acamamaztli . <zacatl--
    ++plant +prob> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.194)
617.  *zacamamaztli*.  nicnoxacaltia, in zacamamaztli in teocalzacatl.
    .  I make myself a hut of ?acamamaztli, of teocal?acatl. . <zacatl
    ++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.194)
618.  *zacamolli*.  auh ihcuac hualquiza temazcalco ic maltia in
    tlanechicolli, in xihuitl iyauhtli, cococxihuitl, zacamolli
    inelhuayo, tecpatli inelhuayo, ihuan ixiuhyo, .  when one emerges
    from the sweat bath, one washes in an assortment of herbs:
    iiyauhtli, cococxiuitl, roots of ?acamolli, roots and leaves of
    tecpat1i. . <zacatl-moa:-l1 ++plant> (b.10 f.9 c.28 p.158)
619.  *zacananacatl*.  zacananacatl, .  ?acananacatl . <zacatl-dupl
    nacatl ++plant> (b.11 f.13 c.7 p.132)
620.  *zacanochnohpalli*.  zacanochnopalli, matilactic, chicahuac. .
    the ?acanochnopalli is thick-leafed, sturdy. . <zacatl-no:chtli
    nohpalli ++plant> (b.11 f.21 c.7 p.218)
621.  *zacanochtli*.  in itech mochihua itoca zacanochtli, .  the name
    of what grows on it is ?acanochtli. . <zacatl-no:chtli
    ++plant> (b.11 f.12 c.6 p.124)
622.  *zacanohualli*.  zacanohualli, .  ?acanoualli . <zacatl--
    ++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.193)
623.  *zacateteztli*.  zacateteztli: .  ?acateteztli . <zacatl
    teteztli ++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7 p.194)
624.  *zacateztli*.  zacateztli .  ?acateztli . <++plant> (b.11
    f.13 c.6 p.126)
625.  *zacateztli*.  zacateztli .  ?acateztli . <++plant> (b.11
    f.14 c.7 p.140)
626.  *zacatl*.  zacatl; .  ?acatl . <zacatl ++plant> (b.11 f.19
    c.7 p.196)
627.  *zacayaman*.  can no yehhuatl in zacayaman; yece chamahuac,
    chicahuac: .  it is the same as ?acayaman; however, it is rough,
    strong. . <zacatl-yama:ni-trunc ++plant> (b.11 f.19 c.7
    p.193)
628.  *zozoyatic*.  zozoyatic .  ?o?oyatic . <dupl-zo:ya:tl-tic
    ++plant> (b.11 f.14 c.7 p.147)




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From jdanahuatl at gmail.com  Sat Nov  5 03:43:31 2011
From: jdanahuatl at gmail.com (Jonathan Amith)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 23:43:31 -0400
Subject: Tunas and purslane
In-Reply-To: <002001cc9b29$aa52a890$fef7f9b0$@net.mx>
Message-ID: <FRI.4.NOV.2011.234331.0400.JDANAHUATL@GMAIL.COM>

Hi David,

There is a commentary to the works of Hern?ndez, vol. 7 in the UNAM series
(this vol. published 1984). A fantastic commentary is that of Alejandro de
Avila on The Badianus, published as The Paper Museum of Cassiano dal Pozzo
Flora, Flora: The Aztec Herbal (Martin Clayton, Luigi Guerrini and
Alejandro de ?vila). I think it is $175 but I waited until Barnes and Noble
had a 50% discount for members on a book of their choice!.

There seems to be a conflation of nomenclature referring to species of the
Aizoaceae and Crassulaceae families on the one hand, and the verdolaga
(Portulaca oleracea L.) on the other. One evidence is what I mentioned of
the tetsmitl look-alike being Trianthema portulacastrum L. (Aizoaceae). It
is an interesting coincidence that in Latin the species name is
portulacastrum (I am not sure what the latin suffix means here)

In the Balsas valley there is also a:itsmitl, Ludwigia peploides (Kunth)
Raven (Onagraeae), which suggests a division te+ itsmitl vs. a:+ itsmitl.
Both are very low lying plants. A further example is tli:ltik a:itsmitl
Bourreria spathulata (Miers.) Hemsl. (Boraginaceae).

Many have identified tetsmitl as a Sedum spp. (Crassulaceae) another of
those fleshy-leaved plants (cf Alejandro de Avila, p. 86). In the Sierra
Norte de Puebla Kalanchoe pinnata (Lam.) (Crassulaceae) is called
sese:kpahtli. It is not unusual for fleshy-leafed plants to be called
something along these lines given that the leaves can be cut open parallel
to their surfaces and are cool inside, often used as compressed.

Where did you get the information on vowel length in Acatlan?

There is documentation of teo:no:chtli as a Pachycereus sp as various
authors have given this for Hernandez and Badianus. In Ameyaltepec I have
teono:xtli and in Oapan tekono:xtli. I checked as much as I could until I
finally resigned myself to a short /o/ in Ameyaltepec. The local cognate
for classical teo:- is tio:-, not teo-, so perhaps this is a frozen form
with irregular length. The /k/ is unusual in Oapan, but clearly the same
etymology. Oapan has komitetl for 'bone' and in several other cases seem to
insert /k/ for no clear reason or established pattern. Most often it is
deleted (telesa for teliksa, ixitl for ikxitl, etc.). I do not think
tekono:xtli is related to teko:n+no:chtli. But I would think that
teo:no:chtli and teno:chtli are different.







On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 3:40 PM, David Wright <dcwright at prodigy.net.mx>wrote:

> Jonathan:****
>
> ** **
>
> Molina has ?Tetzmitl. cierta yerua?. Since there doesn?t seem to be a noun
> ?tetztli?, I first thought of te + i:tz + mi:tl, but this combination
> should take the form tei:tzmi:tl, considering the length of the first two
> vowels and the usual patterns of elision (at least in 16th century central
> Mexican Nahuatl), so I guess the first syllable must be the indefinite
> human possessive prefix te:-, thus te:tzmi:tl, ?someone?s obsidian arrow?
> or ?people?s obsidian arrow?, although I still miss the i: of i:tz(tli).
> The fact that in Acatl?n, Guerrero i:tzmi:tl is ?verdolaga? is what most
> tempts me to restore the i:.****
>
> ** **
>
> Your tekono:xtli looks like the hypothetical classical Nahuatl word
> teco:nno:chtli, (teco:ma - a)+ no:chtli (m + n > nn), ?prickly pear of the
> globular pot? or ?globular prickly pear?. Both morphophonological changes
> would be regular in early colonial central Nahuatl.****
>
> ** **
>
> Teono:xtli as Pachycereus grandis coincides with the illustration of the
> ?Teonochtli? in the Codex Cruz-Badiano (f. 17v), depicting a single-column
> organ pipe cactus. I suppose that would be teo:no:chtli (teo: + no:chtli)
> in classical Nahuatl.****
>
> ** **
>
> So far the strongest evidence I have that the word teno:chtli was used to
> name a species of plant (other than the toponymical and mythical aspects
> mentioned by Roberto) is the brief description given by Francisco Hern?ndez
> in the 16th century:****
>
>
> http://www.ibiologia.unam.mx/plantasnuevaespana/pdf/historia_de_las_plantas_III_6_4.pdf#page=10Other than this, the botanical use of the word seems quite scarce
> throughout time and space.****
>
> ** **
>
> (By the way, the Instituto de Biolog?a of the UNAM put up a very
> functional electronic version of Hern?ndez?s botanical treatise last year.
> That?s where the preceding URL is from; the home page is here:
> http://www.ibiologia.unam.mx/plantasnuevaespana/ I?ve needed a resource
> like this for years.)****
>
> ** **
>
> Thanks again for your help. I?ll copy this to the list to see if anyone
> has any more useful comments.****
>
> ** **
>
> *******************************************************
>
> De:   Jonathan Amith [jdanahuatl at gmail.com]****
>
> Enviado el: viernes, 04 de noviembre de 2011 07:36****
>
> Para: roberto romero****
>
> CC:   David Wright; Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org****
>
> Asunto:     Re: [Nahuat-l] Tunas and purslane****
>
> ** **
>
> Hi David,****
>
> ****
>
> In the Balsas valley of Guerrero tetsmitl is Portulaca oleracea L.
> (verdolaga). There is a tetsmitl "look alike" ?:tlatl?:k in Oapan, that is
> an Aizoaceae, Trianthema portulacastrum L.****
>
> ****
>
> For the Opuntia I have tekono:xtli in Oapan, and teono:xtli (sic) for the
> inside rods of a certain cactus, apparently Pachycereus grandis Rose, but
> maybe also some Opuntias. .****
>
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From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx  Sat Nov  5 03:26:27 2011
From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 21:26:27 -0600
Subject: Plant Names
In-Reply-To: <20111104222913.joyxjcww9w0cwwwg@webmail.iu.edu>
Message-ID: <FRI.4.NOV.2011.212627.0600.DCWRIGHT@PRODIGY.NET.MX>

Thanks a million, Joe. Your file helped me track down some loose ends and
make some more note cards, hopping back and forth between the Florentine
Codex, Hern?ndez, and the Codex Cruz-Badiano.

Any thoughts on the etymology of tetzmitl? I feel like I'm forcing things
seeing te:- + i:tzmi:tl in it, since Molina has several words that start
with teitz-. The i: shouldn't be elided with either te(tl) or te:-.

-----Mensaje original-----
De: Campbell, R. Joe [mailto:campbel at indiana.edu] 
Enviado el: viernes, 04 de noviembre de 2011 20:29
Para: David Wright
CC: Nahuat-l
Asunto: Plant Names

David,

   I thought that some of my notes on plant names in the Florentine 
Codex might be of interest to you and some listero por ahi.  The notes 
are still incomplete, actually skeletal in many cases, but they might 
help by constituting a word list with page locations in the FC.  Their 
intention is to eventually give both location in the FC, as well as a 
sentence context.
But this doesn't work where Dibble and Anderson used a plant name as a 
paragraph header (e.g., item 1 below).  On the other hand, where there 
IS a sentence context, as in item 3, we get the Nahuatl context, as 
well as the English translation of the sentence.

   I am sorry for the incompleteness, but I don't know when the "in-" 
will be remedied.  I'm putting most of my current work into words that 
are more rewarding to me at my present state of ignorance of plant 
vocabulary.  That frequently involves words with a good deal of 
derivational layers.

   In the list below,
  b = book
  f = file
  c = chapter
  p = page
     (the file number is only my use in locating items for editing)
Book, chapter, and page refer to the Dibble and Anderson edition.

I'll be happy to clarify anything that is too murky.

Joe

_______________________________________________
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Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From jdanahuatl at gmail.com  Sat Nov  5 17:54:00 2011
From: jdanahuatl at gmail.com (Jonathan Amith)
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2011 13:54:00 -0400
Subject: Tunas and purslane
In-Reply-To: <000601cc9bdc$f41a0c80$dc4e2580$@net.mx>
Message-ID: <SAT.5.NOV.2011.135400.0400.JDANAHUATL@GMAIL.COM>

Hi David,

Yes, Matias Alonso does not mark vowel length, hence my question. It is
actually interestingly organized as a word menu (by semantic field)
although the final aspirations are randomly marked or not marked. I am not
sure that the root in itsmitl (tetsmitl-a:itsmitl) is in any way related to
i:tstli even though Hernandez does relate the semantics of the plant and
blade.

In the Balsa area to:mohtli is the term for the prickly pear fruit and
discussions about whether a given plant is a to:motli is based on whether
it produces this fruit. No:chtli is used only for no:chmahtlapahli, a very
small, low-to-the ground Opuntia that I have not yet had identified (it was
just collected this summer; its fruit is used to color masa when totopoxtli
(sweet, ruffled tortillas) are made for Corpus Christi. I haven?t found
to:mohtli in any other sources to date.

By the way, I have put up a few notes on
http://www.balsas-nahuatl.org/ethnobiology . They are quite random for now.
The chapolin one discusses a general approach.

Jonathan





On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 1:04 PM, David Wright <dcwright at prodigy.net.mx>wrote:

> Estimado Jonathan:****
>
> ** **
>
> Thanks. This is all very useful.****
>
> ** **
>
> Just last week I was talking Nahuatl etymology and botany over coffee with
> Alejandro de ?vila in Puebla, at the annual Otopames conference. In fact,
> his suggestion that you would have useful information on this topic was my
> initial motivation to post my questions regarding tunas and purslane to
> this list. He sent me a link to the order form for the Paper Museum volume
> and it?s on my desk as I write. The publishers are selling it for $196 USD,
> so I?m still thinking about it, but now that I?ve acquired a deeper
> awareness of the importance of biology in iconographical and toponymical
> studies, and having read your comments on the studies included in this
> volume, I probably won?t be able to hold out much longer.****
>
> ** **
>
> I noticed that Francisco Hern?ndez also has ?tetzmitl? (buried in his
> description of tzonpachtli, book 1, chapter 161) and ?aytzmitl? (twice:
> book 3, chapters 67 and 211). Your suggestion that this may be a semantic
> contrast is duly noted, and tips the scale in my head in favor of te(tl)
> rather than te:-. The fact that Molina also registers ?tetzmitl? and that
> the loss of the i: of i:tz(tli) doesn?t fit the usual pattern still sets
> off a flashing red light, but there have been other times when Nahuatl
> doesn?t seem to fit into our grammatical and morphophonological
> expectations.****
>
> ** **
>
> I?m sorry about having slipped colons into the Acatl?n word ?itzmitl?. My
> head was in automatic long-vowel restoration mode, and I was assuming that
> the roots were i:tz(tli) + mi:tl. My only source is the *Vocabulario
> n?huatl-espa?ol de Acatl?n, Guerrero* by Marcos Mat?as Alonso and
> Constantino Medina Lima (2nd. ed., CIESAS/Plaza y Vald?s, 1996), and vowel
> contrast is not marked. I just checked my main long-vowel-marking
> dictionaries. Karttunen gives i:tztli, Bierhorst itztli, and Wolf both
> i:tztli and itztli, so the i in this noun doesn?t appear to be long across
> the board. It?s always long in mi:tl, though.****
>
> ** **
>
> So tekono:xtli is just teono:xtli with an extra /k/. I never would have
> guessed that.****
>
> ** **
>
> I think you?re right about the botanical difference between teo:no:chtli
> and teno:chtli. The 16th century sources make it clear that the former is
> an organ pipe cactus (Pachycereus sp.) and the latter is a prickly pear
> (Opuntia sp.) (see the Florentine Codex [book 11, chapter 7, paragraph 12],
> Francisco Hern?ndez?s botanical treatise [book 6, chapters 108, 110], the
> Codex Cruz-Badiano [f. 17v], and the toponymical signs in the pictorial
> sources, e.g. Codex Mendoza: ?Tenochtitlan? [ff. 2r, 4v, 19r] vs.
> ?Teonochtitlan? [f. 42r]). Several authors have confused the two (e.g.
> Laura White Olascoaga and Carmen Zepeda G?mez, *El para?so bot?nico del
> convento de Malinalco, estado de M?xico* [Toluca, UAEM, 2005], where the
> organ pipe cactus is unfortunately depicted and described under the heading
> ?Tenochtli?). In Nahua plant taxonomy the ?generic? part of the word,
> no:chtli, refers to cactus fruit, in contrast to modern botanical taxonomy,
> where the morphology of the plant as a whole determines the genus. This
> important distinction has confused a lot of people.****
>
> ** **
>
> Thanks again for your invaluable input, which will be cited in my paper
> (now over six weeks past deadline, thanks to my new interest in botany),
> using the Nahuat-l Archives site as a reference.****
>
> ** **
>
> Saludos desde Guanajuato,****
>
> ** **
>
> David****
>
> ** **
>
> *De:* Jonathan Amith [mailto:jdanahuatl at gmail.com]
> *Enviado el:* viernes, 04 de noviembre de 2011 21:44
> *Para:* David Wright
> *CC:* Nahuat-l
>
> *Asunto:* Re: [Nahuat-l] Tunas and purslane****
>
> ** **
>
> Hi David,****
>
>  ****
>
> There is a commentary to the works of Hern?ndez, vol. 7 in the UNAM series
> (this vol. published 1984). A fantastic commentary is that of Alejandro de
> Avila on The Badianus, published as The Paper Museum of Cassiano dal Pozzo
> Flora, Flora: The Aztec Herbal (Martin Clayton, Luigi Guerrini and
> Alejandro de ?vila). I think it is $175 but I waited until Barnes and Noble
> had a 50% discount for members on a book of their choice!. ****
>
>  ****
>
> There seems to be a conflation of nomenclature referring to species of the
> Aizoaceae and Crassulaceae families on the one hand, and the verdolaga
> (Portulaca oleracea L.) on the other. One evidence is what I mentioned of
> the tetsmitl look-alike being Trianthema portulacastrum L. (Aizoaceae). It
> is an interesting coincidence that in Latin the species name is
> portulacastrum (I am not sure what the latin suffix means here)
>
> In the Balsas valley there is also a:itsmitl, Ludwigia peploides (Kunth)
> Raven (Onagraeae), which suggests a division te+ itsmitl vs. a:+ itsmitl.
> Both are very low lying plants. A further example is tli:ltik a:itsmitl
> Bourreria spathulata (Miers.) Hemsl. (Boraginaceae).****
>
>  ****
>
> Many have identified tetsmitl as a Sedum spp. (Crassulaceae) another of
> those fleshy-leaved plants (cf Alejandro de Avila, p. 86). In the Sierra
> Norte de Puebla Kalanchoe pinnata (Lam.) (Crassulaceae) is called
> sese:kpahtli. It is not unusual for fleshy-leafed plants to be called
> something along these lines given that the leaves can be cut open parallel
> to their surfaces and are cool inside, often used as compressed.****
>
>  ****
>
> Where did you get the information on vowel length in Acatlan?****
>
>  ****
>
> There is documentation of teo:no:chtli as a Pachycereus sp as various
> authors have given this for Hernandez and Badianus. In Ameyaltepec I have
> teono:xtli and in Oapan tekono:xtli. I checked as much as I could until I
> finally resigned myself to a short /o/ in Ameyaltepec. The local cognate
> for classical teo:- is tio:-, not teo-, so perhaps this is a frozen form
> with irregular length. The /k/ is unusual in Oapan, but clearly the same
> etymology. Oapan has komitetl for 'bone' and in several other cases seem to
> insert /k/ for no clear reason or established pattern. Most often it is
> deleted (telesa for teliksa, ixitl for ikxitl, etc.). I do not think
> tekono:xtli is related to teko:n+no:chtli. But I would think that
> teo:no:chtli and teno:chtli are different.****
>
>  ****
>
>  ****
>
>  ****
>
>  ****
>
>  ****
>
>  ****
>
>  ****
>
> On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 3:40 PM, David Wright <dcwright at prodigy.net.mx>
> wrote:****
>
> Jonathan:****
>
>  ****
>
> Molina has ?Tetzmitl. cierta yerua?. Since there doesn?t seem to be a noun
> ?tetztli?, I first thought of te + i:tz + mi:tl, but this combination
> should take the form tei:tzmi:tl, considering the length of the first two
> vowels and the usual patterns of elision (at least in 16th century central
> Mexican Nahuatl), so I guess the first syllable must be the indefinite
> human possessive prefix te:-, thus te:tzmi:tl, ?someone?s obsidian arrow?
> or ?people?s obsidian arrow?, although I still miss the i: of i:tz(tli).
> The fact that in Acatl?n, Guerrero i:tzmi:tl is ?verdolaga? is what most
> tempts me to restore the i:.****
>
>  ****
>
> Your tekono:xtli looks like the hypothetical classical Nahuatl word
> teco:nno:chtli, (teco:ma - a)+ no:chtli (m + n > nn), ?prickly pear of the
> globular pot? or ?globular prickly pear?. Both morphophonological changes
> would be regular in early colonial central Nahuatl.****
>
>  ****
>
> Teono:xtli as Pachycereus grandis coincides with the illustration of the
> ?Teonochtli? in the Codex Cruz-Badiano (f. 17v), depicting a single-column
> organ pipe cactus. I suppose that would be teo:no:chtli (teo: + no:chtli)
> in classical Nahuatl.****
>
>  ****
>
> So far the strongest evidence I have that the word teno:chtli was used to
> name a species of plant (other than the toponymical and mythical aspects
> mentioned by Roberto) is the brief description given by Francisco Hern?ndez
> in the 16th century:****
>
>
> http://www.ibiologia.unam.mx/plantasnuevaespana/pdf/historia_de_las_plantas_III_6_4.pdf#page=10Other than this, the botanical use of the word seems quite scarce
> throughout time and space.****
>
>  ****
>
> (By the way, the Instituto de Biolog?a of the UNAM put up a very
> functional electronic version of Hern?ndez?s botanical treatise last year.
> That?s where the preceding URL is from; the home page is here:
> http://www.ibiologia.unam.mx/plantasnuevaespana/ I?ve needed a resource
> like this for years.)****
>
>  ****
>
> Thanks again for your help. I?ll copy this to the list to see if anyone
> has any more useful comments.****
>
>  ****
>
> *******************************************************
>
> De:   Jonathan Amith [jdanahuatl at gmail.com]****
>
> Enviado el: viernes, 04 de noviembre de 2011 07:36****
>
> Para: roberto romero****
>
> CC:   David Wright; Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org****
>
> Asunto:     Re: [Nahuat-l] Tunas and purslane****
>
>  ****
>
> Hi David,****
>
> In the Balsas valley of Guerrero tetsmitl is Portulaca oleracea L.
> (verdolaga). There is a tetsmitl "look alike" ?:tlatl?:k in Oapan, that is
> an Aizoaceae, Trianthema portulacastrum L.****
>
> For the Opuntia I have tekono:xtli in Oapan, and teono:xtli (sic) for the
> inside rods of a certain cactus, apparently Pachycereus grandis Rose, but
> maybe also some Opuntias. .****
>
> ** **
>
_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From jdanahuatl at gmail.com  Sat Nov  5 22:41:15 2011
From: jdanahuatl at gmail.com (Jonathan Amith)
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2011 18:41:15 -0400
Subject: Tunas and purslane
In-Reply-To: <001401cc9bec$746dc5c0$5d495140$@net.mx>
Message-ID: <SAT.5.NOV.2011.184115.0400.JDANAHUATL@GMAIL.COM>

Hi David,

The reference to obsidian is for itzmiquilitl "Del itzmiquilitl o verdura
parecida a las puntas de itztli de las flechas." There are 7 varieties
given all said to be "siemprevivas".  Whether the itsmi- here is different
than the roots in tetsmitl/a:itsmitl... who knows? But the drawing is
definitely different than a verdolaga (Hernandez, Libro 11 Cap. XLVIII).
They are all called siempreviva, which is often a term for Sedum spp. (one
could look into 16th century Spanish terminology). In the comentaries to
Hernandez this is suggested to be aTalinum, a genus that used to be in the
same family as verdolaga. The commentaries seem to be missing in the
published version for the plants on II:13, i.e., the seven types of
itzmiquilitl.

The blades of the Portulaca oleraceae don't look much like obsidian blades
to me!



On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 2:55 PM, David Wright <dcwright at prodigy.net.mx>wrote:

> Estimado Johnathan:****
>
> ** **
>
> I am reluctant to give up the itztli/i:tztli + mi:tl etymology for
> itzmitl/aitzmitl/teitzmitl, since it is the only hypothesis I can come up
> with, and it seems to make sense (arrow heads resemble leaves), but your
> data does show the lack of vowel-length correspondence (mitl vs. mi:tl),
> even if we admit both itztli and i:tztli as variant forms for obsidian.***
> *
>
> ** **
>
> I couldn?t find any mention of blades in Hern?ndez?s treatise, in the
> parts describing tetzmitl or either of the two classes of aitzmitl.****
>
> ** **
>
> The pictorial sign for Itzmiquilpan in the Codex Mendoza (f. 27r) shows
> what looks like a sprig of purslane over a cultivated field, with one leaf
> in the form of a white almond-shaped blade with a red tip. This, however,
> is not necessarily evidence of the semantic value of the toponym, since
> pictorial signs were used to express ideas (semasiography), morphemes
> (logography), and phonic units such as syllables and phonemes
> (phonography). Thus the blade could represent the idea of a blade, the
> morpheme itz/i:tz (sound with meaning), and/or the syllable itz/i:tz (just
> the sound, opening up the possibility of homophonic or cuasihomophonic
> morpheme play). The fact that the scribe/painter thought of a blade when
> representing this toponym, however, lends some degree of strength to the
> itztli/i:tztli + mi:tl hypothesis. The whiteness of the lower half of the
> blade is another problem, since obsidian in the codices is usually painted
> black (although obsidian itself comes in a wide variety of colors).****
>
> ** **
>
> Saludos,****
>
> ** **
>
> David****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> *De:* Jonathan Amith [mailto:jdanahuatl at gmail.com]
> *Enviado el:* s?bado, 05 de noviembre de 2011 11:54
>
> *Para:* David Wright
> *CC:* Nahuat-l
> *Asunto:* Re: [Nahuat-l] Tunas and purslane****
>
> ** **
>
> Hi David,****
>
>  ****
>
> Yes, Matias Alonso does not mark vowel length, hence my question. It is
> actually interestingly organized as a word menu (by semantic field)
> although the final aspirations are randomly marked or not marked. I am not
> sure that the root in itsmitl (tetsmitl-a:itsmitl) is in any way related to
> i:tstli even though Hernandez does relate the semantics of the plant and
> blade.****
>
>  ****
>
> In the Balsa area to:mohtli is the term for the prickly pear fruit and
> discussions about whether a given plant is a to:motli is based on whether
> it produces this fruit. No:chtli is used only for no:chmahtlapahli, a very
> small, low-to-the ground Opuntia that I have not yet had identified (it was
> just collected this summer; its fruit is used to color masa when totopoxtli
> (sweet, ruffled tortillas) are made for Corpus Christi. I haven?t found
> to:mohtli in any other sources to date.****
>
>  ****
>
> By the way, I have put up a few notes on
> http://www.balsas-nahuatl.org/ethnobiology . They are quite random for
> now. The chapolin one discusses a general approach.****
>
>  ****
>
> Jonathan****
>
> ** **
>
_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx  Sat Nov  5 17:04:17 2011
From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright)
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2011 11:04:17 -0600
Subject: Tunas and purslane
In-Reply-To: <CAD_TCBGZ_MYD47u_57csk3zCJrMSDZBACEQMqLw--OkLzkrQGg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SAT.5.NOV.2011.110417.0600.DCWRIGHT@PRODIGY.NET.MX>

Estimado Jonathan:

 

Thanks. This is all very useful.

 

Just last week I was talking Nahuatl etymology and botany over coffee with
Alejandro de ?vila in Puebla, at the annual Otopames conference. In fact,
his suggestion that you would have useful information on this topic was my
initial motivation to post my questions regarding tunas and purslane to this
list. He sent me a link to the order form for the Paper Museum volume and
it?s on my desk as I write. The publishers are selling it for $196 USD, so
I?m still thinking about it, but now that I?ve acquired a deeper awareness
of the importance of biology in iconographical and toponymical studies, and
having read your comments on the studies included in this volume, I probably
won?t be able to hold out much longer.

 

I noticed that Francisco Hern?ndez also has ?tetzmitl? (buried in his
description of tzonpachtli, book 1, chapter 161) and ?aytzmitl? (twice: book
3, chapters 67 and 211). Your suggestion that this may be a semantic
contrast is duly noted, and tips the scale in my head in favor of te(tl)
rather than te:-. The fact that Molina also registers ?tetzmitl? and that
the loss of the i: of i:tz(tli) doesn?t fit the usual pattern still sets off
a flashing red light, but there have been other times when Nahuatl doesn?t
seem to fit into our grammatical and morphophonological expectations.

 

I?m sorry about having slipped colons into the Acatl?n word ?itzmitl?. My
head was in automatic long-vowel restoration mode, and I was assuming that
the roots were i:tz(tli) + mi:tl. My only source is the *Vocabulario
n?huatl-espa?ol de Acatl?n, Guerrero* by Marcos Mat?as Alonso and
Constantino Medina Lima (2nd. ed., CIESAS/Plaza y Vald?s, 1996), and vowel
contrast is not marked. I just checked my main long-vowel-marking
dictionaries. Karttunen gives i:tztli, Bierhorst itztli, and Wolf both
i:tztli and itztli, so the i in this noun doesn?t appear to be long across
the board. It?s always long in mi:tl, though.

 

So tekono:xtli is just teono:xtli with an extra /k/. I never would have
guessed that.

 

I think you?re right about the botanical difference between teo:no:chtli and
teno:chtli. The 16th century sources make it clear that the former is an
organ pipe cactus (Pachycereus sp.) and the latter is a prickly pear
(Opuntia sp.) (see the Florentine Codex [book 11, chapter 7, paragraph 12],
Francisco Hern?ndez?s botanical treatise [book 6, chapters 108, 110], the
Codex Cruz-Badiano [f. 17v], and the toponymical signs in the pictorial
sources, e.g. Codex Mendoza: ?Tenochtitlan? [ff. 2r, 4v, 19r] vs.
?Teonochtitlan? [f. 42r]). Several authors have confused the two (e.g. Laura
White Olascoaga and Carmen Zepeda G?mez, *El para?so bot?nico del convento
de Malinalco, estado de M?xico* [Toluca, UAEM, 2005], where the organ pipe
cactus is unfortunately depicted and described under the heading
?Tenochtli?). In Nahua plant taxonomy the ?generic? part of the word,
no:chtli, refers to cactus fruit, in contrast to modern botanical taxonomy,
where the morphology of the plant as a whole determines the genus. This
important distinction has confused a lot of people.

 

Thanks again for your invaluable input, which will be cited in my paper (now
over six weeks past deadline, thanks to my new interest in botany), using
the Nahuat-l Archives site as a reference.

 

Saludos desde Guanajuato,

 

David

 

De: Jonathan Amith [mailto:jdanahuatl at gmail.com] 
Enviado el: viernes, 04 de noviembre de 2011 21:44
Para: David Wright
CC: Nahuat-l
Asunto: Re: [Nahuat-l] Tunas and purslane

 

Hi David,

 

There is a commentary to the works of Hern?ndez, vol. 7 in the UNAM series
(this vol. published 1984). A fantastic commentary is that of Alejandro de
Avila on The Badianus, published as The Paper Museum of Cassiano dal Pozzo
Flora, Flora: The Aztec Herbal (Martin Clayton, Luigi Guerrini and Alejandro
de ?vila). I think it is $175 but I waited until Barnes and Noble had a 50%
discount for members on a book of their choice!. 

 

There seems to be a conflation of nomenclature referring to species of the
Aizoaceae and Crassulaceae families on the one hand, and the verdolaga
(Portulaca oleracea L.) on the other. One evidence is what I mentioned of
the tetsmitl look-alike being Trianthema portulacastrum L. (Aizoaceae). It
is an interesting coincidence that in Latin the species name is
portulacastrum (I am not sure what the latin suffix means here)

In the Balsas valley there is also a:itsmitl, Ludwigia peploides (Kunth)
Raven (Onagraeae), which suggests a division te+ itsmitl vs. a:+ itsmitl.
Both are very low lying plants. A further example is tli:ltik a:itsmitl
Bourreria spathulata (Miers.) Hemsl. (Boraginaceae).

 

Many have identified tetsmitl as a Sedum spp. (Crassulaceae) another of
those fleshy-leaved plants (cf Alejandro de Avila, p. 86). In the Sierra
Norte de Puebla Kalanchoe pinnata (Lam.) (Crassulaceae) is called
sese:kpahtli. It is not unusual for fleshy-leafed plants to be called
something along these lines given that the leaves can be cut open parallel
to their surfaces and are cool inside, often used as compressed.

 

Where did you get the information on vowel length in Acatlan?

 

There is documentation of teo:no:chtli as a Pachycereus sp as various
authors have given this for Hernandez and Badianus. In Ameyaltepec I have
teono:xtli and in Oapan tekono:xtli. I checked as much as I could until I
finally resigned myself to a short /o/ in Ameyaltepec. The local cognate for
classical teo:- is tio:-, not teo-, so perhaps this is a frozen form with
irregular length. The /k/ is unusual in Oapan, but clearly the same
etymology. Oapan has komitetl for 'bone' and in several other cases seem to
insert /k/ for no clear reason or established pattern. Most often it is
deleted (telesa for teliksa, ixitl for ikxitl, etc.). I do not think
tekono:xtli is related to teko:n+no:chtli. But I would think that
teo:no:chtli and teno:chtli are different.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 3:40 PM, David Wright <dcwright at prodigy.net.mx>
wrote:

Jonathan:

 

Molina has ?Tetzmitl. cierta yerua?. Since there doesn?t seem to be a noun
?tetztli?, I first thought of te + i:tz + mi:tl, but this combination should
take the form tei:tzmi:tl, considering the length of the first two vowels
and the usual patterns of elision (at least in 16th century central Mexican
Nahuatl), so I guess the first syllable must be the indefinite human
possessive prefix te:-, thus te:tzmi:tl, ?someone?s obsidian arrow? or
?people?s obsidian arrow?, although I still miss the i: of i:tz(tli). The
fact that in Acatl?n, Guerrero i:tzmi:tl is ?verdolaga? is what most tempts
me to restore the i:.

 

Your tekono:xtli looks like the hypothetical classical Nahuatl word
teco:nno:chtli, (teco:ma - a)+ no:chtli (m + n > nn), ?prickly pear of the
globular pot? or ?globular prickly pear?. Both morphophonological changes
would be regular in early colonial central Nahuatl.

 

Teono:xtli as Pachycereus grandis coincides with the illustration of the
?Teonochtli? in the Codex Cruz-Badiano (f. 17v), depicting a single-column
organ pipe cactus. I suppose that would be teo:no:chtli (teo: + no:chtli) in
classical Nahuatl.

 

So far the strongest evidence I have that the word teno:chtli was used to
name a species of plant (other than the toponymical and mythical aspects
mentioned by Roberto) is the brief description given by Francisco Hern?ndez
in the 16th century:

http://www.ibiologia.unam.mx/plantasnuevaespana/pdf/historia_de_las_plantas_
III_6_4.pdf#page=10 Other than this, the botanical use of the word seems
quite scarce throughout time and space.

 

(By the way, the Instituto de Biolog?a of the UNAM put up a very functional
electronic version of Hern?ndez?s botanical treatise last year. That?s where
the preceding URL is from; the home page is here:
http://www.ibiologia.unam.mx/plantasnuevaespana/ I?ve needed a resource like
this for years.)

 

Thanks again for your help. I?ll copy this to the list to see if anyone has
any more useful comments.

 

***************************************************

De:   Jonathan Amith [jdanahuatl at gmail.com]

Enviado el: viernes, 04 de noviembre de 2011 07:36

Para: roberto romero

CC:   David Wright; Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org

Asunto:     Re: [Nahuat-l] Tunas and purslane

 

Hi David,

In the Balsas valley of Guerrero tetsmitl is Portulaca oleracea L.
(verdolaga). There is a tetsmitl "look alike" ?:tlatl?:k in Oapan, that is
an Aizoaceae, Trianthema portulacastrum L.

For the Opuntia I have tekono:xtli in Oapan, and teono:xtli (sic) for the
inside rods of a certain cactus, apparently Pachycereus grandis Rose, but
maybe also some Opuntias. .

 

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From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx  Sat Nov  5 18:55:15 2011
From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright)
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2011 12:55:15 -0600
Subject: Tunas and purslane
In-Reply-To: <CAD_TCBFgoZNbfxDn__3MvXwt88-x=s2L7yKD8wKPi3RaRRtkPw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SAT.5.NOV.2011.125515.0600.DCWRIGHT@PRODIGY.NET.MX>

Estimado Johnathan:

 

I am reluctant to give up the itztli/i:tztli + mi:tl etymology for
itzmitl/aitzmitl/teitzmitl, since it is the only hypothesis I can come up
with, and it seems to make sense (arrow heads resemble leaves), but your
data does show the lack of vowel-length correspondence (mitl vs. mi:tl),
even if we admit both itztli and i:tztli as variant forms for obsidian.

 

I couldn?t find any mention of blades in Hern?ndez?s treatise, in the parts
describing tetzmitl or either of the two classes of aitzmitl.

 

The pictorial sign for Itzmiquilpan in the Codex Mendoza (f. 27r) shows what
looks like a sprig of purslane over a cultivated field, with one leaf in the
form of a white almond-shaped blade with a red tip. This, however, is not
necessarily evidence of the semantic value of the toponym, since pictorial
signs were used to express ideas (semasiography), morphemes (logography),
and phonic units such as syllables and phonemes (phonography). Thus the
blade could represent the idea of a blade, the morpheme itz/i:tz (sound with
meaning), and/or the syllable itz/i:tz (just the sound, opening up the
possibility of homophonic or cuasihomophonic morpheme play). The fact that
the scribe/painter thought of a blade when representing this toponym,
however, lends some degree of strength to the itztli/i:tztli + mi:tl
hypothesis. The whiteness of the lower half of the blade is another problem,
since obsidian in the codices is usually painted black (although obsidian
itself comes in a wide variety of colors).

 

Saludos,

 

David

 

 

De: Jonathan Amith [mailto:jdanahuatl at gmail.com] 
Enviado el: s?bado, 05 de noviembre de 2011 11:54
Para: David Wright
CC: Nahuat-l
Asunto: Re: [Nahuat-l] Tunas and purslane

 

Hi David,

 

Yes, Matias Alonso does not mark vowel length, hence my question. It is
actually interestingly organized as a word menu (by semantic field) although
the final aspirations are randomly marked or not marked. I am not sure that
the root in itsmitl (tetsmitl-a:itsmitl) is in any way related to i:tstli
even though Hernandez does relate the semantics of the plant and blade.

 

In the Balsa area to:mohtli is the term for the prickly pear fruit and
discussions about whether a given plant is a to:motli is based on whether it
produces this fruit. No:chtli is used only for no:chmahtlapahli, a very
small, low-to-the ground Opuntia that I have not yet had identified (it was
just collected this summer; its fruit is used to color masa when totopoxtli
(sweet, ruffled tortillas) are made for Corpus Christi. I haven?t found
to:mohtli in any other sources to date.

 

By the way, I have put up a few notes on
http://www.balsas-nahuatl.org/ethnobiology . They are quite random for now.
The chapolin one discusses a general approach.

 

Jonathan

 

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From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx  Sun Nov  6 21:42:07 2011
From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright)
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2011 15:42:07 -0600
Subject: Tunas and purslane
Message-ID: <SUN.6.NOV.2011.154207.0600.DCWRIGHT@PRODIGY.NET.MX>

Estimado Jonathan:

 

For the moment I only have the 2010 digital version of the 1942-1946 IB-UNAM edition, which is incomplete (it only has books 1-7, so itzmiquilitl is not included), and a digital facsimile (from Google Books) of the 1790 edition in Latin, which lacks the illustrations. In the latter edition ?YTZMIQUILITL? is at vol. 2, p. 468 (book 10, chapter 48). I just noticed that there is another species of tetzmitl, called ?TEPETETZMITL?: vol. 2, p. 469 (book 10, chapter 50), that we can add to the list of varieties of plants containing itz(tli) + mi(tl).

 

?Blade? is probably not the best term in English, because when taken out of context (?almond-shaped blade?) it evokes prismatic obsidian blades, which are quite different in form and manufacturing technique. The resemblance between obsidian almond-shaped sacrificial knives, the leaves of some plants, and some varieties of obsidian projectile points is only approximate. Obsidian knapped into a sacrificial knife or projectile point seems to have been associated with certain plants in the ancient Nahua minds. (Translucent green obsidian would look even more like a leaf than black or grey obsidian.) The biggest difference in shape between this sort of object and a purslane leaf would be the latter?s lack of a point.

 

That a 16th century Nahua scribe-painter made such an association is evident in the Codex Mendoza, in the pictorial sign for Itzmiquilpan (f. 27r), mentioned earlier in this thread. See:

 

http://oldweb.geog.berkeley.edu/ProjectsResources/Glyphs/Plate15/Itzmiquilpan.html

 

The latter link includes Antonio Pe?afiel?s etymology, first published in 1885, in which he incorrectly associates the syllable ?mi? with ?milli? (the /l/ shouldn?t be assimilated) instead of ?mi(tl)? (the latter having been recorded by Hern?ndez in the chapter you just mentioned).

 

The Itzmiquilpan-purslane link is much clearer in the Otomi toponym, since the same Otomi word is used for both the place and the plant. The Nahuatl associations between specific words and botanical species are turning out to be harder to work out.

 

To sum up, the strongest connection between Portulaca oleracea and a plant with the words itz(tli) and mi(tl) that I?ve seen so far is the association of ?itzmitl? and ?verdolaga? in the Acatl?n dictionary, together with your identification of ?tetzmitl? as ?Portulaca oleracea?, although there are other varieties of itzmitl: aitzmitl and tepetetzmitl. The verbal description of the ?itzmiquilitl? in the Florentine Codex fits well with P. oleracea, while the drawing labeled ?itzmiquilitl? in this manuscript doesn?t look like purslane, nor does it appear to coincide with the verbal description. The morpheme quilitl refers to edible leafy plants, so it looks like the itzmiquilitl is the itzmitl that people liked to eat, among the wider category of plants called itzmitl.

 

Here are my transcription, phonemic version, and translation of the Nahuatl text in the Florentine Codex (vol. 3, f. 287r [book 11, chapter 3]) (I hope all of the characters survive the journey through cyberspace):

 

? Itzmiquilitl, mouiuilanani, cel

patic, matitilactic, matitilac

ton, ixiaiaoaltoton paoaxoni.

 

?tzm?quilitl mohu?huil?nani celpahtic m?t?tilactic m?t?tilact?n ?xyayahualtot?n p?huax?ni

 

?La hierba comestible de flecha de obsidiana es rastera, tierna y verde, con las ramitas gruesas y las hojitas redondas; se cuece en la olla?.

 

Thanks again for sharing the fruits of your work in Guerrero and your comments on the 16th century sources, all of which have been very useful.

 

Un abrazo,

 

David

 

P.S. I have one more question: in the 1790 edition of Hern?ndez (loc. cit.) I don?t find the seven types of itzmiquilitl that you mention. Is this in another chapter?

 

De: Jonathan Amith [mailto:jdanahuatl at gmail.com] 
Enviado el: s?bado, 05 de noviembre de 2011 16:41
Para: David Wright
CC: Nahuat-l
Asunto: Re: [Nahuat-l] Tunas and purslane

 

Hi David,

 

The reference to obsidian is for itzmiquilitl "Del itzmiquilitl o verdura parecida a las puntas de itztli de las flechas." There are 7 varieties given all said to be "siemprevivas".  Whether the itsmi- here is different than the roots in tetsmitl/a:itsmitl... who knows? But the drawing is definitely different than a verdolaga (Hernandez, Libro 11 Cap. XLVIII). They are all called siempreviva, which is often a term for Sedum spp. (one could look into 16th century Spanish terminology). In the comentaries to Hernandez this is suggested to be aTalinum, a genus that used to be in the same family as verdolaga. The commentaries seem to be missing in the published version for the plants on II:13, i.e., the seven types of itzmiquilitl.

 

The blades of the Portulaca oleraceae don't look much like obsidian blades to me!

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From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx  Mon Nov  7 00:21:41 2011
From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright)
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2011 18:21:41 -0600
Subject: Tunas and purslane
Message-ID: <SUN.6.NOV.2011.182141.0600.DCWRIGHT@PRODIGY.NET.MX>

Jonathan:

 

To get things a bit more organized, I made a list of Nahuatl plant names
that appear to contain the nominal radicals itz(tli)/i:tz(tli) and mi:(tl),
in Francisco Hern?ndez?s botanical treatise, 1790 and 1942-1946 editions.
There may be more, but these are all I?ve found to date. I?m sending them to
you and to the list, in case anyone else needs to track these down in the
future.

 

aitzmitl (1) - book 3, chapter 67 - vol. 1, p. 232 (1790) - vol. 2, p. 369
(1942-1946)

 

aitzmitl (2) - book 3, chapter 211 - vol. 1, p. 318 (1790) - vol. 2, p. 480
(1942-1946)

 

itzmiquilitl - book 10, chapter 48 - vol. 2, p. 468 (1790) - (not in
1942-1946 edition)

 

tepetetzmitl - book 10, chapter 50 - vol. 2, p. 469 (1790) - (not in
1942-1946 edition)

 

tepitontetzmitl - book 10, chapter 56 - vol. 2, p. 471 (1790) - (not in
1942-1946 edition)

                             

tetzmilpatli - book 10, chapter 54 - vol. 2, p. 470 (1790) - (not in
1942-1946 edition)

 

tetzmitl (1) - book 1, chapter 161 - vol. 1, p. 89 (1790) - vol. 1, p. 140
(1942-1946)

 

tetzmitl (2) - book 10, chapter 52 - vol. 2, p. 470 (1790) - (not in
1942-1946 edition)

 

tetzmitl (3) - book 10, chapter 53 - vol. 2, p. 470 (1790) - (not in
1942-1946 edition)

 

tetzmitl (4) - book 19, chapter 306 - vol. 3, p. 306 (1790) - (not in
1942-1946 edition)

 

tlaltetzmitl - book 10, chapter 55 - vol. 2, p. 471 (1790) - (not in
1942-1946 edition)

 

Web sources

 

Hern?ndez, Francisco

 

2010    Historia de las plantas de Nueva Espa?a, digital facsimile of the
1942-1946 ed., 3 vols., Isaac Ochoterena, director, Mexico, Instituto de
Bot?nica, Universidad Nacional Aut?noma de M?xico, 2010

http://www.ibiologia.unam.mx/plantasnuevaespana

access: Nov. 6, 2011.

 

not dated    ?Opera [De historia plantarum novae hispaniae]?, 3 vols.,
facs?mil digital de la ed. de 1790, en Google Books

http://books.google.com/books?id=zX6pXnGTnowC&dq=related%3AHARVARD3204410726
3105&hl=es&pg=PP1#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=ArT6VtFZX38C&dq=related%3AHARVARD3204410726
3105&hl=es&pg=PP5#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=CGug2EKWcwoC&dq=related%3AHARVARD3204410726
3105&hl=es&pg=PP5#v=onepage&q&f=false

access: Nov. 6, 2011.

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From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx  Tue Nov  8 15:31:23 2011
From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 09:31:23 -0600
Subject: Tunas and purslane
Message-ID: <TUE.8.NOV.2011.093123.0600.DCWRIGHT@PRODIGY.NET.MX>

In the 1790 edition of Hern?ndez, the chapter on the Itzmiquilitl is in book
11, chapter 48. I thought it was book 10 because there is a typographical
error in the cornice of the preceding page (467), where it says NOVAE
HISPAN. LIBER X. I am attaching a corrected version of the table of
references to possible itztli/i:tztli + mi:tl words in this source that I
sent to this list on November 6.

 

****************************************************************************
******************

 

aitzmitl (1) - book 3, chapter 67 - vol. 1, p. 232 (1790) - vol. 2, p. 369
(1942-1946)

 

aitzmitl (2) - book 3, chapter 211 - vol. 1, p. 318 (1790) - vol. 2, p. 480
(1942-1946)

 

itzmiquilitl - book 11, chapter 48 - vol. 2, p. 468 (1790) - (not in
1942-1946 edition)

 

tepetetzmitl - book 10, chapter 50 - vol. 2, p. 469 (1790) - (not in
1942-1946 edition)

 

tepitontetzmitl - book 10, chapter 56 - vol. 2, p. 471 (1790) - (not in
1942-1946 edition)

                             

tetzmilpatli - book 10, chapter 54 - vol. 2, p. 470 (1790) - (not in
1942-1946 edition)

 

tetzmitl (1) - book 1, chapter 161 - vol. 1, p. 89 (1790) - vol. 1, p. 140
(1942-1946)

 

tetzmitl (2) - book 10, chapter 52 - vol. 2, p. 470 (1790) - (not in
1942-1946 edition)

 

tetzmitl (3) - book 10, chapter 53 - vol. 2, p. 470 (1790) - (not in
1942-1946 edition)

 

tetzmitl (4) - book 19, chapter 306 - vol. 3, p. 306 (1790) - (not in
1942-1946 edition)

 

tlaltetzmitl - book 10, chapter 55 - vol. 2, p. 471 (1790) - (not in
1942-1946 edition)

 

Web sources

 

Hern?ndez, Francisco

 

2010    Historia de las plantas de Nueva Espa?a, digital facsimile of the
1942-1946 ed., 3 vols., Isaac Ochoterena, director, Mexico, Instituto de
Bot?nica, Universidad Nacional Aut?noma de M?xico, 2010

http://www.ibiologia.unam.mx/plantasnuevaespana

access: Nov. 6, 2011.

 

not dated    ?Opera [De historia plantarum novae hispaniae]?, 3 vols.,
facs?mil digital de la ed. de 1790, en Google Books

http://books.google.com/books?id=zX6pXnGTnowC&dq=related%3AHARVARD3204410726
3105&hl=es&pg=PP1#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=ArT6VtFZX38C&dq=related%3AHARVARD3204410726
3105&hl=es&pg=PP5#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=CGug2EKWcwoC&dq=related%3AHARVARD3204410726
3105&hl=es&pg=PP5#v=onepage&q&f=false

access: Nov. 6, 2011.

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Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From cuecuex at gmail.com  Wed Nov  9 06:36:03 2011
From: cuecuex at gmail.com (roberto romero)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 00:36:03 -0600
Subject: Tunas and purslane
In-Reply-To: <001401cc9e2b$78bbfcf0$6a33f6d0$@net.mx>
Message-ID: <WED.9.NOV.2011.003603.0600.CUECUEX@GMAIL.COM>

Que me toquen el Quelite

Hola David y demas foristas

Siguiendo con el tema colocado en la mesa por David , este nos dio un
link para poder ver la imagen de Iztmiquilpan del c?dice mendocino y
leer la interpretaci?n del jerogl?fico que hizo Pe?afiel y la
propuesta de este autor como traducci?n de Iztmiquilpan

Sobre este nombre escribio el sabio Pe?afiel  a fines del siglo XIX:

?Itzmiquilpan. -- Itz mi quil pan. -- Ixmiguilpa.
Este jerogl?fico puede citarse como el tipo del mayor grado de
adelanto de la escritura sil?bica mexicana: la palabra est? escrita con
elementos fon?ticos, y us?ndose de los recursos ideogr?ficos y
figurativos de que pod?an disponer los nahoas.?
http://oldweb.geog.berkeley.edu/ProjectsResources/Glyphs/Plate15/Itzmiquilpan.html

De acuerdo a Pe?afiel

?El termino  Itz, es expresado por un tecpatl, un cuchillo de pedernal
tinto en rojo de sangre, es el s?mbolo del cuchillo utilizado en los
sacrificios humanos..

mi, radical de milli, tierra cultivada, est? debajo del primer signo

y entre ambos una planta herb?cea encorvada, que dice quil, radical de
quilitl, yerba comestible

y pan sobre, final expresada por la superposicion del tecpatl sobre
toda la figura.

Itzmiquilitl, planta rastrera, de hojas.

En la propuesta de Pe?afiel destaca que seg?n este autor esta presente
" mi, radical de milli,tierra cultivada?

y David  parece que esta de acuerdo la interpretaci?n de campo
cultivado en la palabra Itzmiquilitl y con la interpretaci?n del
s?mbolo jeroglifico como campo cultivado.

Pe?afiel parte metodol?gicamente de manera correcta en la traducci?n e
interpretaci?n de la palabra Izmiquilpan  busca  relacionar la imagen
el recurso natural de escritura de los indios con el sonido y las
palabras del idioma ind?gena que las im?genes le proponen, para
encontrar en ellas los elementos que componen la palabra Iztmiquilpan
.

Esta manera de trabajar de Pe?afiel la continuo Robert Barlow y Byron
Mc Caffe con su Diccionario de elementos foneticos de la escritura
jerogl?fica , extra?dos estos del c?dice mendocino

El punto de partida y el rector de la traducci?n es la imagen, lo
pictogr?fico que en su interpretaci?n adecuada o no,  va a resultar en
proponer una serie de palabras que nos pueden dan o no los componentes
que forman una palabra.

Es la imagen el punto de partida  cuando contamos con ella para
traducir una palabra que viene acompa?ada de un jerogl?fico .

Y es el punto de partida porque el nahuatl no lo escrib?an los indios,
no era originalmente un idioma escrito era un idioma hablado.

Fueron sobre todo los frailes cat?licos los que definieron, los que
fijaron y establecieron  como escribir el nahuatl, los que crearon las
gram?ticas,  las reglas ortogr?ficas buscando vertir a caract?res
latinos las palabras que o?an en la mejor o en la peor forma de c?mo
las entend?an.

Pero creo que  en el  dialogo que hemos visto entre David y Jhonhatan
no hemos visto esto como punto de partida esta forma de trabajo

El terreno principal donde se ha dado la discusi?n es en el an?lisis
de los componentes etimol?gicos de la palabra.

Mas a?n se relativiza  por no decir que se niega el valor del elemento
pict?rico

Se?ala David : ?El signo pict?rico de Itzmiquilpan en el C?dice
Mendoza (f. 27r) Lo que muestra se parece a una rama de la verdolaga
cultivadas sobre un campo con una hoja blanca de forma almendrada con
la punta roja. Esto, sin embargo, NO ES prueba necesariamente del
valor sem?ntico de la toponimia..

? The pictorial sign for Itzmiquilpan in the Codex Mendoza (f. 27r) shows what
looks like a sprig of purslane over a cultivated field, with one leaf in the
form of a white almond-shaped blade with a red tip. This, however, is not
necessarily evidence of the semantic value of the toponym?

Si la toponimia de Izmiquilpan es campo cultivado de verdolagas  como
propone Pe?afiel este encuentra un apoyo en la imagen.

El pintor del c?dice ilustr? una planta con un  tallo curvo hacia el
cielo y no hacia el suelo, no enterrado en ?l y adem?s  muestra que
dicho tallo fue cortado una linea horizontal termina el tallo y as? lo
indica y para sugerir que fue cortado el pintor del c?dice puso un
punto de otro color mas claro para enfatizar la idea del corte , como
cuando uno corta un ?pie o esqueje? y la planta al sufrir el corte
muestra en su parte interna un color mas claro. Vease el jeroglifico
en el link citado

En el mismo p?rrafo David se?ala

?The whiteness of the lower half of the blade is another problem,
since obsidian in the codices is usually painted black (although
obsidian itself comes in a wide variety of colors).?

Lo blanco de la mitad inferior de la hoja es otro problema. La
obsidiana en los c?dices usualmente esta pintada de negro (aunque la
obsidiana misma viene en una variedad amplia de colores)?.

David  nada obliga a que los cuchillos, Tecpatl ,  fueran solo hechos
de obsidiana. Pod?an y se han encontrado cuchillos y diversos
instrumentos de otro material como el pedernal o  la riolita, seg?n el
uso y el recurso y la tradici?n litica en uso por ese pueblo.

Un ejemplo muuy famosos el cuchillo con mango de figura de caballero
?guila y hoja de pedernal que esta en el Museo Britanico
http://translate.google.com.mx/translate?hl=es&langpair=en%7Ces&u=http://www.britishmuseum.org/explore/highlights/highlight_objects/aoa/k/knife_with_a_mosaic_handle.aspx

 O Que tal toda esta cantidad cuchillos de pedernal del Templo Mayor

http://translate.google.com.mx/translate?hl=es&langpair=en%7Ces&u=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Aztec_sacrificial_knives.jpg

Sin poder aportar en el elemento etim?logico creo que la imagen del
jerogl?f?co del c?dice mendocino  sobre la que asienta la planta no
puede interpretarse como la pintura de un campo cultivado, no esta
pintado tal campo cultivado.

La figura a mi me parece ser una representaci?n muy realista de una
tira rectangular de papel amate, un c?dice de papel amate  con cuatro
?hojas? que presenta incluso tres dobleces, uno de ellos al centro de
la tira que "jala" hacia atr?s la tira de papel, rasgo que le da
profundidad y realismo a la imagen y otros dos dobleces que le dan
volumen a la imagen y presentan la ilusi?n de dos hojas hacia fuera.

Dentro de la tira de papel del jerogl?fico de Izmiquilpan aparecen
rasgos que representar escritura y  cuadretes.

En el c?dice Aubin segunda parte  folio 1565 y 1566 se pintan
personajes leyendo noticias en documentos de dos hojas , apuntando
noticias en otro cuaderno de dos hojas aparece otro personaje en el
a?o 1560 y una representaci?n de la quema de c?dices (Amatl) en el a?o
1560 , frayles cristianos leyendo un libro de oraci?n a?o 1567 ,
enterandose de los pecados  a?o 1573,como noticia de la muerte de la
esposa del virrey a?o1581
(Codie Aubin Segunda parte 1520 -1608 en Tlatelolco Fuents e Historia
Rober Berlow Obra Vol 2)

En cada uno de los pictogramas citados se uso el mismo recurso de
pintar una raya central mas peque?a sobre la que convergen dos rayas
que viene de los extremos laterales superiores.  Dando as? la
sensaci?n de una hoja doblada.

En mi opini?n el s?mbolo que se representa en el jerogl?fico  de
Iztmiquilpan del c?dice es un Amoxtli un libro de papel de cuatro
hojas ,  no me parece que se represente un campo cultivado.

Esta interpretaci?n  se refuerza por el hecho de que los quelites,
forma de llamar los indios a las hierbas silvestres comestibles No Se
Siembran Se Recolectan , los quelites son varias plantas y una de
ellas es la verdolaga.

Los quelites  son plantas ?oportunistas? que no se siembran crecen de
forma silvestre en los campos sembrados .

Los quelites crecen y se reproducen bien en campos de cultivo  porque
como parte de las labores de cultivo esos campos han sido abonados y
crecen tambi?n en terrenos bald?os por ser dichos terreno tierras no
"desgastadas" por los cultivos.

La verdolaga se puede sembrar por semilla o por "piecitos",  esquejes,
y actualmente lo siembra gente urbana en su jard?n por las propiedades
medicinales que se le atribuyen a la planta.

Pero en la agricultura tradicional  indigena y de mestizos que
comparten ese horizonte cultural y ese nivel de vida, en las
comunidades campesinas tradicionales,  los queliites incluyendo la
verdolaga No se Cultivan y Si en cambio se Recolectan, el quelite es
un resultado de la recolecci?n y no del cultivo aunque si acompa?a a
las tierras cultivadas.

De hecho para la agricultura comercial moderna, realizada bajo la
l?gica capitalista y  que por tanto ya no es hecha en la forma
tradicional los quelites y entre ellos la verdolaga y otras hierbas
se les considera maleza, hierba da?ina  que compite con el desarrollo
de la planta de ma?z o de otras plantas cultivadas y se les elimina y
como practica de cultivo se avienta herbicida, un  veneno para incluso
impedir que surjan esas hierbas comestibles y otras que no lo son, el
herbicida arrasa parejo,  pues la forma en como ven a los quelites
incluyendo en ella a la verdolaga es la que nos dice la empresa Bayer,
 una exitosa transnacional fabricante de diversos qu?micos:
"Verdolaga (Portulaca oleracea). Originaria de Europa, la verdolaga es
una mala hierba anual que invade muchos cultivos, generalmente en
terrenos erosionados y pobres, donde no tiene que competir con plantas
de mayor desarrollo...?

En la agricultura comercial capitalista los quelites las hierbas
comestibles que surg?an en la milpa  o parcela han por ello
desaparecido y con ello un recurso alimenticio para las familias
campesinas.

Aun actualmente si el campesino es pobre y mantiene elementos de la
cultura tradicional agr?cola entonces el deshierbe lo hace a mano como
parte de las necesarias labores de cuidado de cultivo. Parte de las
hierbas que le quite a la milpa se las come pues puede identificarlas
como quelites, como comestibles.

Los campesinos ind?genas prehisp?nicos viviendo en sociedades que no
contaban con los instrumentos t?cnicos actuales, descubrieron,
seguramente despu?s de un largo periodo de experimentaci?n, de que
entre la siembra y la cosecha de la milpa , de la tierra pod?an
obtener alimentos como los quelites que deben haber sido considerado
un regalo divino pues no eran producto de su trabajo sino eran como
una dadiva divina,  un regalo divino que les daba la diosa tierra u
otra deidad proveedora, una merced divina de alimento en tanto
transcurr?an los 200 d?as  mas o menos en que una semilla de ma?z
puede lograr alcanzar el ser ca?a con mazorcas.

El uso de hierbas comestibles recolectadas fue una pr?ctica com?n de
los pueblos llamados mesoamericanos, en los cuales la caza y la
recolecci?n no desapareci? ni de la cultura ni de su forma de obtener
alimento, se mantuvo como recurso b?sico de su reproducci?n

La diferencia entre los mesoamericanos y los llamados desde la
conquista "salvajes"  o "chichimecas" no pasa por ser estos cazadores
recolectores  y los mesoamericanos no serlo, ambos continentes de
pueblos fueron y siguieron siendo cazadores recolectores, se
distinguen mas bien por el papel y peso que en el aporte de la
reproducci?n vital de ese pueblo ten?a la agricultura, un peso que no
depend?a s?lo de la voluntad y cultura  de tal o cual pueblo sino
sobre todo del tipo de tierra y r?gimen de temporal en el que estaba
asentado ese pueblo que por ello ten?a que ser preferentemente o s?lo
ser cazador recolector.

De hecho en ?pocas de desgracias como fue la derrota de Chapultepec
para los Mexicas estos se mantuvieron comiendo hierbas acu?ticas, se
les llam? por eso los comedores de mastuerzo.

Y la pr?ctica se repiti? en el sitio de Tlatelolco, mal llamado en la
educaci?n publica sitio de  Tenochtitlan, esta ciuda nunca fue sitiada
en siete dias fue destruida . En Tlatelolco fue donde los guerreros
Tlatelolcas,  Huitznahuacas y Chalmecas bajo el mando de Cuauhtemoc
resistieron durante ochenta d?as cuatro veintenas,  al ej?rcito de
decenas de miles de indios texcocanos, tlaxcaltecos, huejotzincas,
xochimilcas, chalcas y  otomis bajo el mando de Hernan Cort?s y sus
capitanes los espa?oles.

Buscando informaci?n sobre la discusi?n abierta por David Wrigth
encontr? un muy interesante art?culo de la revista hidalguense cactus
en donde se dice
que existi? otra etimolologia de Iztmiquilpan dada por Jim?nez Moreno,
desafortunadamente no nos dice el nombre del art?culo:
http://www.revistacactus.com.mx/articulos/?id=137&fecha=2

"a mediados del siglo XX, el c?lebre investigador Wigberto Jim?nez
Moreno ofrece una versi?n diferente del asunto, pues nos dice que
Ixmiquilpan proviene de ITZ, de Itztli, pedernal; Mi de Militl,
cuchillo o navaja, de donde se obtiene la idea de Navaja de Pedernal o
como Navaja de Pedernal, o parecido a la Navaja de Pedernal; QUIL, de
Qu?litl, el quelite, la hierba comestible, que por lo general ?dice el
autor? no se cultiva en la milpa ?como insin?a el doctor Pe?afiel?,
pues crece silvestremente; y PAN, sufijo locativo que indica lugar. A
lo que agrega que el significado es ?Lugar de las hierbas comestibles,
los quelites, que se parecen a la navaja de pedernal?, y tales hierbas
con ese parecido, son las verdolagas, donde el nombre significa ?Lugar
de verdolagas?.

En esta propuesta de Jimenez Moreno como en la de Pe?afiel, y como ha
sido tratado en la discusi?n entablada en los mensajes mails de David
y Jhonathan, se propone el parecido de la hoja de la verdolaga o del
quelite con el s?mbolo del cuchillo de obsidiana, sacrificial.

Jimenez Moreno tambi?n destaca que los quelites no se siembran y
propone que el lugar debe  traducirse simplemente  como ?Lugar de
verdolagas?

Si uno analiza el dibujo del mendocino se percata  que ?ste no es una
representaci?n realista o no corresponde a la verdolaga

La hoja de la verdolaga esta pintada invertida para subrayar el
parecido de las hojas con el Tecpatl buscando que las hojas parezcan
Tecpatl, cuchillos,  pues en realidad en la verdolaga la punta de la
hoja es redondeada y es la base de la hoja,  lo que la une al tallo ,
la que es mas aguda, la que es puntiaguda.

Destaca que en el jerogl?fico se representen tres hojas invertidas que
junto al s?mbolo Tecpatl nos dan una met?fora pict?rica de la fecha
cuatro Tecpatl.

Si acaso esto es correcto,  habr?a que ver si hay un  significado
ligado a la fecha de Cuatro Tecpatl en la historia local de ese
asentamiento de otom?es llamado iztmiquilpan   Ya antes se?ale que el
s?mbolo sobre el que reposa la planta a mi me parece un libro,  un
Amoxtli,  un c?dice que  tiene tambi?n cuatro hojas.  Cuatro Tecpatl
en la planta, cuatro hojas simb?licas, cuatro hojas en el codice
Amoxtli que le sirve de base.

O bien tomando s?lo el ?nico Tecpatl del jeroglifico,  esto indica
simb?licamente la  fecha Uno Tecpatl para la cual si tenemos mas
noticias pues es por ejemplo  la fecha de arranque de la migraci?n de
los mexicas desde su lugar de origen o bien Uno Tecpatl era el inicio
de la cuenta de los a?os en varios pueblos.

David nos traduce el texto nahuatl del c?dice Florentino de la planta
Itzmiquilitl: ?La hierba comestible de flecha de obsidiana es
rastrera, tierna y verde, con las ramitas gruesas y las hojitas
redondas; se cuece en la olla?.

Resulta que los informantes de Sahag?n ven a las hojas de la planta
Itzmiquilitl como puntas de flechas de obsidiana, no como navajas o
cuchillos.

David se?ala ?The resemblance between obsidian almond-shaped
sacrificial knives, the leaves of some plants, and some varieties of
obsidian projectile points is only approximate?.

En verdad no es tan aproximada. Entre la variedad de formas de flechas
seg?n el uso y la tradici?n l?tica del pueblo que las fabrico hay
puntas de flecha que se asemejan a las formas de la hojas de la
verdolaga habr?a que ver que puntas de flecha o de venablo o dardo
arrojadizo se han hallado en esa regi?n del valle del Mezquital
poblada por otomies .

De hecho la forma almendrada de las hojas de la verdolaga es uno de
las formas mas usadas en la elaboraci?n de intrumentos u objetos de
piedra bifaciales:

?Un bifaz es una herramienta l?tica prehist?rica de cronolog?a muy
larga, pero que caracteriza, sobre todo, una etapa de la Edad de
Piedra: el Achelense (se encuentra tambi?n, adem?s, en el Paleol?tico
Medio e, incluso, con posterioridad). Su nombre le viene de que el
modelo arquet?pico ser?a una pieza de talla, generalmente, bifacial
(esto es, con dos caras), de morfolog?a almendrada y tendente a la
simetr?a seg?n un eje longitudinal y seg?n un plano de aplastamiento.
Los bifaces m?s comunes tienen la zona terminal en punta y la base
redondeada ? http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bifaz
 En la p?gina citada se ilustra con Primer bifaz publicado en la
historia de la Arqueolog?a, por John Frere (a?o 1800).

Precisa Jonahthan que seg?n Francisco Hern?ndez la Itzmiquilitl era la
planta "siempreviva? que es algo distinto a la verdolaga . Tenemos
otra identidad de la hierba del jerogl?fico. Y no para ah? la cosa

Don Leogivildo Islas Escarcega  en su Diccionario Rural  de M?xico nos
propone otra identidad del quelite  y los liga a plantas de la familia
del amaranto, de las amarantaceas,   160 generos y 2400 especies  que
tampoco se relacionan con la verdolaga o las siempre vivas  o que un
biologo bot?nico por favor me corrija.

?Quelite Del nahua quiilitl, yerba comestible. Nombre vulgar de varias
plantas  herb?ceas que se comen como verduras. En la mesa central,
donde reeularmente se produce en las sementeras es muy com?n en la
alimentaci?n campesina.

Quelite Bronco Variedad de quelite propia del Noroeste (Amaranthus polygonoides)

Quelite Cenizo Otra de las variedades de esta planta , muy com?n en la
mesa central ( Chenopodium Mexicanum ).

Quelite Cuale Nombre que dan en Sinaloa a una planta labiada (Tenerium cubense)

Quelite de Espiga Planta amarantacea variedad del quelite com?n
(Amaranthus hypocondriacus .

Quelite de Puerco Planta quenopodi?cea de la frontera norte.

Quelite de Zorrillo Nombre de un quelite al que tambi?n se conoce con
la denominaci?n de quelite apestoso.

Quelite espinoso Planta amarantacea mexicana Amaranthus spinosus

?Quelites y Calabacitas en las primeras ag?itas ?. Refran  con que se
indica la temporada en que estas pplantas y frutos deben comerse,
porque es cuando estan tiernos. En sentido figurado , que todo hay que
hacerlo a su tiempo.? Op.cit p209 Realmente el sentido del refr?n es
que hay que hacerlo en el momento justo, adecuado, preciso.

Parece que por el camino de la hierbas no llegamos a muy buen puerto y
la confusi?n es mayor.

Regresemos al punto de partida el jer?gl?fico de Izmiquilpan

En ?ste destaca el Tecpatl o cuchillo sacrificial y unas hojas de una
planta convertidas en im?genes simbolicas del cuchillo de sacrificio Y
tambi?n destaca que la planta solo tiene las hojas de un lado del
tallo lo cual no ocurre en la realidad con  la verdolaga

Parece que en el jerogl?fico de Iztmiquilpan no estamos frente a una
representaci?n de la verdolaga en especifico pero si de los quelites
como planta silvestre comestible, entendiendo  los quelites  como
regalo divino dado a los hombres,  como planta  caida del cielo o
broitada de la tierra que por obra de dios surge en las milpas y
permitia a los indios tener que comer mientras la planta de ma?z  se
desarrollaba desde sus estado de semilla a ca?a con mazorca .

Una d?iva de esa tama?o merece por lo menos un  sacrificio y eso se
enfatiza en el jerogl?fico con la representaci?n destacada del
tecpatl, el cuchillo de sacrificio.

En su diccionario Alexis Wimmer se?ala las siguientes palabras

? Itzimiquiliztli: Muerte bajo el cuchillo de obsidiana. La muerte en
combate o sacrificio.   m? cahhuyacamati mi quitzopel?camati en
itzimiquiliztli, su sabor es el sabor, sabore? la dulzura de la muerte
bajo el cuchillo de obsidiana. Sah6, 14
http://sites.estvideo.net/malinal/nahuatl.page.html

Itzimiquizx?chitl: La muerte de flores bajo el cuchillo de obsidiana.
  m? quinehnequi m? quehelehui en itzimiquizx?chitl, que ?l desea, ?l
est? buscando la muerte en la flor de cuchillo de obsidiana. Sah6,
14.?

Y trae su propia traducci?n de Iztmiquilpan

?El glifo, Kingsborough Codex Mendoza Lam I 62 29 fig.8. presenta una
punta de obsidiana, itzm?-tl, empe?ados en una planta, sin duda,
itzm?quil-itl, cuyas hojas tienen una forma similar al dise?o de la
punta de obsidiana. Se basa en una franja de tierra.?

De las palabras que  trae el diccionario de Wimmer el significado de
la palabra Itzimiquiliztli se relaciona estrechamente con el cuchillo
de sacrificio que con particular ?nfasis  se destaca en el jerogl?fico
de Iztmiquilpan

Basado en esto ?ltimo como argumento final y con todo lo antes
expuesto y a riesgo de caer en el rid?culo, cosa que me tiene sin
cuidado, propongo que

Iztmiquilpan  es  realmente LA TIERRA DE LOS SACRIFICADOS o mas
preciso LA TIERRA DE LOS QUE MORIAN BAJO EL CUCHILLO DE OBSIDIANA EN
AGRADECIMIENTO POR La DADIVA DE LOS DIOSES (QUELITES)

Apuntalo mi propuesta  con el hecho de que los otomies como adoradores
de Mixcoatl eran Mixcoas y son mixcoas las im?genes t?picas con las
que se representa al sacrificado en los c?dices de origen colhua
mexica :  vease la Tira de la Peregrinaci?n o el Telleriano.

Me despido solicitando

 ??que me toquen el "Quelite" / despues el "Ni?o Perdido"
y por ultimo el "Torito" pa' que vean como le brinco
Ay, ay, ay  /mam? por Dios.? ( El sinaloense )

Porque al fin y al cabo

?Que bonito es el quelite, bien haya quien lo form?
Que por sus orillas tiene, de quien acordarme yo?.

(Ma?ana me voy ma?ana, ma?ana me voy  de aqu?
El consuelo que me queda, que se han de acordar de mi) (El quelite )

Roberto Romero Gutierrez.




2011/11/8, David Wright <dcwright at prodigy.net.mx>:
> In the 1790 edition of Hern?ndez, the chapter on the Itzmiquilitl is in book
> 11, chapter 48. I thought it was book 10 because there is a typographical
> error in the cornice of the preceding page (467), where it says NOVAE
> HISPAN. LIBER X. I am attaching a corrected version of the table of
> references to possible itztli/i:tztli + mi:tl words in this source that I
> sent to this list on November 6.
>
>
>
> ****************************************************************************
> ******************
>
>
>
> aitzmitl (1) - book 3, chapter 67 - vol. 1, p. 232 (1790) - vol. 2, p. 369
> (1942-1946)
>
>
>
> aitzmitl (2) - book 3, chapter 211 - vol. 1, p. 318 (1790) - vol. 2, p. 480
> (1942-1946)
>
>
>
> itzmiquilitl - book 11, chapter 48 - vol. 2, p. 468 (1790) - (not in
> 1942-1946 edition)
>
>
>
> tepetetzmitl - book 10, chapter 50 - vol. 2, p. 469 (1790) - (not in
> 1942-1946 edition)
>
>
>
> tepitontetzmitl - book 10, chapter 56 - vol. 2, p. 471 (1790) - (not in
> 1942-1946 edition)
>
>
>
> tetzmilpatli - book 10, chapter 54 - vol. 2, p. 470 (1790) - (not in
> 1942-1946 edition)
>
>
>
> tetzmitl (1) - book 1, chapter 161 - vol. 1, p. 89 (1790) - vol. 1, p. 140
> (1942-1946)
>
>
>
> tetzmitl (2) - book 10, chapter 52 - vol. 2, p. 470 (1790) - (not in
> 1942-1946 edition)
>
>
>
> tetzmitl (3) - book 10, chapter 53 - vol. 2, p. 470 (1790) - (not in
> 1942-1946 edition)
>
>
>
> tetzmitl (4) - book 19, chapter 306 - vol. 3, p. 306 (1790) - (not in
> 1942-1946 edition)
>
>
>
> tlaltetzmitl - book 10, chapter 55 - vol. 2, p. 471 (1790) - (not in
> 1942-1946 edition)
>
>
>
> Web sources
>
>
>
> Hern?ndez, Francisco
>
>
>
> 2010    Historia de las plantas de Nueva Espa?a, digital facsimile of the
> 1942-1946 ed., 3 vols., Isaac Ochoterena, director, Mexico, Instituto de
> Bot?nica, Universidad Nacional Aut?noma de M?xico, 2010
>
> http://www.ibiologia.unam.mx/plantasnuevaespana
>
> access: Nov. 6, 2011.
>
>
>
> not dated    ?Opera [De historia plantarum novae hispaniae]?, 3 vols.,
> facs?mil digital de la ed. de 1790, en Google Books
>
> http://books.google.com/books?id=zX6pXnGTnowC&dq=related%3AHARVARD3204410726
> 3105&hl=es&pg=PP1#v=onepage&q&f=false
>
> http://books.google.com/books?id=ArT6VtFZX38C&dq=related%3AHARVARD3204410726
> 3105&hl=es&pg=PP5#v=onepage&q&f=false
>
> http://books.google.com/books?id=CGug2EKWcwoC&dq=related%3AHARVARD3204410726
> 3105&hl=es&pg=PP5#v=onepage&q&f=false
>
> access: Nov. 6, 2011.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>
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From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx  Wed Nov  9 15:52:15 2011
From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 09:52:15 -0600
Subject: Tunas and purslane
In-Reply-To: <CAOZR5ELGYW_UkRgL+XpgMhHWymRbsHKxvM55J1FKorcHWUcxCQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <WED.9.NOV.2011.095215.0600.DCWRIGHT@PRODIGY.NET.MX>

Estimado Roberto:

Gracias de nuevo por tus reflexiones tan ricas y abundantes.

S?lo preciso que no estoy de acuerdo con la etimolog?a de "Itzmiquilpan" que apunta Pe?afiel, porque tiene errores. I:tztli (o itztli) no es pedernal, sino obsidiana, y la s?laba "mi" no puede venir de mi:lli porque ser?a mi:l (mi:lli - li). S? est? presente el signo de la sementera en el signo pict?rico correspondiente en el C?dice de Mendoza (comp?rese con los elementos similares en Xochimilco, etc?tera), pero el morfema mi:l(li)  no se encuentra en la palabra "Itzmiquilpan". Esto abre la posibilidad de que el grafema "sementera" tenga un valor sil?bico (mi:lli por mi:), a trav?s de un juego de homofon?a (o cuasihomofon?a), cosa que es com?n en los c?dices del Centro de M?xico en el siglo XVI, aunque el hecho de que las verdolagas reales crecen en las milpas me insta a considerar la hip?tesis alternativa, que sea un signo semasiogr?fico con el valor "sementera"; incluso pueden caber ambas lecturas a la vez.

Es importante guardar la distinci?n sem?ntica entre tecpatl (pedernal) e i:tztli  o itztli (obsidiana). Ambas palabras se usaban para referirse a diversos utensilios hechos de esos materiales, pero el significado primario es el de las materias primas. As? se registran en los principales diccionarios y queda claro en las fuentes en n?huatl (por ejemplo en el C?dice florentino; puedes usar el Calepino de Pilar M?ynez para localizar los pasajes correspondientes).

Lo de itzimiquiliztli, itzimiquizxochitl, etc?tera, abre posibilidades interesantes de asociaciones po?ticas, pero tanto las formas de estas palabras como sus significados son distintos a las de Itzmiquilpan. A?n as? es una veta que hace tiempo he estado trabajando, por considerarla relevante. Sobre estas palabras en el manuscrito Cantares mexicanos, v?anse los comentarios de Bierhorst y los de Damrosch:

BIERHORST, John
1985 A Nahuatl-English dictionary and concordance to the Cantares mexicanos, with an analytic transcription and grammatical notes, Stanford, Stanford University Press.

DAMROSCH, David
1991 ?The aesthetics of conquest: Aztec poetry before and after Cort?s?, en Representations (University of California Press), no. 33 (no. especial: The New World), pp. 101-120.

En fin, despu?s de considerar todas las aportaciones de los listeros (por las cuales estoy muy agradecido), llego a la conclusi?n (tentativa, como son todas las conclusiones en la ciencia) de que hab?a dos campos sem?nticos en la taxonom?a bot?nica de los antiguos nahuas (entre muchas otras, por supuesto), una de las plantas i:tzmi:tl o itzmi:tl ("flecha de obsidiana"), que abarcaba varias especies que ten?an ciertas caracter?sticas comunes, y otra de las plantas quilitl ("hierba comestible"). El i:tzmi:quilitl, asociado con la verdolaga (Portulaca oleracea), se encontraba en ambas categor?as, como lo indica su etimolog?a ("la hierba comestible de la flecha de obsidiana").

Las dudas m?s importantes que me quedan tienen que ver con la duraci?n voc?lica de los nombres modernos de las plantas que parecen ser de la categor?a taxon?mica de las plantas i:tzmi:tl (o itzmi:tl) en la regi?n del r?o Balsas, donde ambas vocales se registran como cortas. Este rasgo fon?tico es importante porque tiene valor fon?mico, es decir, incide en el significado de las palabras.

Saludos y un abrazo,

David

-----Mensaje original-----
De: roberto romero [mailto:cuecuex at gmail.com] 
Enviado el: mi?rcoles, 09 de noviembre de 2011 00:36
Para: David Wright
CC: Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
Asunto: Re: [Nahuat-l] Tunas and purslane

Que me toquen el Quelite

Hola David y demas foristas

Siguiendo con el tema colocado en la mesa por David , este nos dio un
link para poder ver la imagen de Iztmiquilpan del c?dice mendocino y
leer la interpretaci?n del jerogl?fico que hizo Pe?afiel y la
propuesta de este autor como traducci?n de Iztmiquilpan

[...]

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From idiez at me.com  Thu Nov 10 17:29:18 2011
From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 11:29:18 -0600
Subject: nitah
Message-ID: <THU.10.NOV.2011.112918.0600.IDIEZ@ME.COM>

Piyali notequixpoyohuan,
	Here?s a fun one. ?nitah?, is an expression of surprise or astonishment used in Modern Huastecan Nahuatl. Sometimes used in the expression, ?nitah totiotzin (noteotzin).?
1. ?nitah? is actually a shortened form of the Mexican Spanish ?nanita,? ?mamita,? referring to the Virgin Mary
2. ?nanita? comes from the Nahuatl ?nantli? plus the Spanish diminutive ?-ita?
3. But as we all know, Mexican Spanish has taken the Spanish diminutive and used it to substitute for the Nahuatl diminutive-honorific ?-tzin.?
	How that for (de)colonial morphology? And see, I?m actually using some up-to-date theoretical terminology.
John
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From idiez at me.com  Fri Nov 11 15:39:12 2011
From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 09:39:12 -0600
Subject: Cross-variant communication
Message-ID: <FRI.11.NOV.2011.093912.0600.IDIEZ@ME.COM>

Piyali notequixpoyohuan,
	Next week I?ll go to Mexico City and meet with administrators of the Mexican National Institute of Indigenous Languages to finish up the details regarding the founding of the Zacatecas State Institute of Indigenous Languages. This new organization will soon begin working with INALI, as well as other national and international institutions on a number of far-reaching language and culture revitalization projects. One of the specific goals of IDIEZ and the new Zacatecas State Institute will be to create a space in Zacatecas where native-speakers of all variants of Nahuatl can meet, both in person and virtually, and work together on teaching and research, revitalization projects, and basically talk about all problems affecting indigenous people. The inaugural activity of this project will take advantage of the week-long series of focus-group sessions that will be held in Zacatecas during the second week of December. These sessions are sponsored by Stephanie Wood?s NEH/NSF project, ?An Online Nahuatl Lexical Database: Bridging Past, Present, and Future Speakers,? and will have native speakers discuss key concepts and words from Older (Classical) Nahuatl texts. The discussions will be recorded, and linguistic material will be harvested and loaded onto the project?s database (http://whp.uoregon.edu/dictionaries/nahuatl/). Right now the participants are considering topics of their own interest that will be discussed in additional focus group sessions during the week. Only three rules/principles will govern the discussion process: 1. You must speak in Nahuatl; 2. You must respect others? opinions; 3. There is no belief, topic or opinion that should prevent two people from sitting down and talking to each other. 
	If our goal of promoting cross-variant communication between Nahuas is to succeed, we will need to create a user?s manual; in other words, a practical little book (and companion website) for native speakers that will include a multi-variant list of frequently used words and phrases, with sound files for aid in pronunciation, as well as a comparative description of basic grammatical constructions for numerous variants. I would appreciate advise and tips regarding resources and current or previous projects of a similar nature.
John

John Sullivan, Ph.D.
Professor of Nahua language and culture
Universidad Aut?noma de Zacatecas
Zacatecas Institute of Teaching and Research in Ethnology
Tacuba 152, int. 43
Centro Hist?rico
Zacatecas, Zac. 98000
Mexico
Work: +52 (492) 925-3415
Home: +52 (492) 768-6048
Mobile (Mexico): +52 1 (492) 103-0195
Mobile (US): (615) 649-2790
idiez at me.com
www.macehualli.org

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From mmccaffe at indiana.edu  Fri Nov 11 00:49:17 2011
From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 19:49:17 -0500
Subject: nitah
In-Reply-To: <5444D72B-8C5A-4693-AFF4-C2472598BE5E@me.com>
Message-ID: <THU.10.NOV.2011.194917.0500.MMCCAFFE@INDIANA.EDU>

Curious piece of language here, John.

Also, it's interesting how such a creation could confuse Nahuatl speakers.

In my case, I was looking for "notah" or "nitahtli," which I'm not sure 
is possible in modern dialects, not "nitah".

Michael


Quoting John Sullivan <idiez at me.com>:

> Piyali notequixpoyohuan,
> 	Here?s a fun one. ?nitah?, is an expression of surprise or
> astonishment used in Modern Huastecan Nahuatl. Sometimes used in the
> expression, ?nitah totiotzin (noteotzin).?
> 1. ?nitah? is actually a shortened form of the Mexican Spanish
> ?nanita,? ?mamita,? referring to the Virgin Mary
> 2. ?nanita? comes from the Nahuatl ?nantli? plus the Spanish
> diminutive ?-ita?
> 3. But as we all know, Mexican Spanish has taken the Spanish
> diminutive and used it to substitute for the Nahuatl
> diminutive-honorific ?-tzin.?
> 	How that for (de)colonial morphology? And see, I?m actually using
> some up-to-date theoretical terminology.
> John
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>



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From idiez at me.com  Fri Nov 11 16:28:10 2011
From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 10:28:10 -0600
Subject: nitah
In-Reply-To: <20111110194917.83d1j9v9uas88kko@webmail.iu.edu>
Message-ID: <FRI.11.NOV.2011.102810.0600.IDIEZ@ME.COM>

MIchael,
	One of the things I really like about combining the study of Classical and Modern is that in Classical we only see finished products of cases of vowel elision, haplology and other situations where words shrink. With Modern variants these processes are evolving right in front of your eyes (or next to your ears).
John

On Nov 10, 2011, at 6:49 PM, Michael McCafferty wrote:

> Curious piece of language here, John.
> 
> Also, it's interesting how such a creation could confuse Nahuatl speakers.
> 
> In my case, I was looking for "notah" or "nitahtli," which I'm not sure is possible in modern dialects, not "nitah".
> 
> Michael
> 
> 
> Quoting John Sullivan <idiez at me.com>:
> 
>> Piyali notequixpoyohuan,
>> 	Here?s a fun one. ?nitah?, is an expression of surprise or
>> astonishment used in Modern Huastecan Nahuatl. Sometimes used in the
>> expression, ?nitah totiotzin (noteotzin).?
>> 1. ?nitah? is actually a shortened form of the Mexican Spanish
>> ?nanita,? ?mamita,? referring to the Virgin Mary
>> 2. ?nanita? comes from the Nahuatl ?nantli? plus the Spanish
>> diminutive ?-ita?
>> 3. But as we all know, Mexican Spanish has taken the Spanish
>> diminutive and used it to substitute for the Nahuatl
>> diminutive-honorific ?-tzin.?
>> 	How that for (de)colonial morphology? And see, I?m actually using
>> some up-to-date theoretical terminology.
>> John
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nahuatl mailing list
>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl

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From idiez at me.com  Fri Nov 11 16:53:30 2011
From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 10:53:30 -0600
Subject: hua:c
Message-ID: <FRI.11.NOV.2011.105330.0600.IDIEZ@ME.COM>

Piyali notequixpoyohuan,
	There?s a morpheme that has been kicking my butt for a long time now, ?hua:c?. In Modern Huastecan Nahuatl it only shows up in:
huaczan (huac+zan), ?at that moment?
huacoc (huac+oc), ?we?ll see if....?
huacca (huac+ya), ?then? as in ?Then she went to the store.?
	Anyway, today I received a mail from one of the participants in the focus group sessions, a woman from Guerrero. In her mail she used ?kwac? for ?when, then? which is obviously related to the Classical ?ihqua:c?.
	For me, this is one of those ?duhh? moments. And Joe, you might want to look at the possibility of removing ?ihcua:c? from the basic morpheme list.
John

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From idiez at me.com  Fri Nov 11 17:00:37 2011
From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 11:00:37 -0600
Subject: Cross-variant communication
In-Reply-To: <1321030606.70308.YahooMailClassic@web86708.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.11.NOV.2011.110037.0600.IDIEZ@ME.COM>

Anthony,
	That is precisely one of the topics native speakers need to discuss, without interference from government officials. And the answer may not be either of the two you mention.
John

On Nov 11, 2011, at 10:56 AM, ANTHONY APPLEYARD wrote:

> Which dialect will be the standard dialect used for official records and suchlike, or will they be using literary Tenochtitlanian Nahuatl?
> 
> Has anyone made progress with a Nahuatl to or from English automatic translater?
> 
> Citlalyani.
> 
> --- On Fri, 11/11/11, John Sullivan <idiez at me.com> wrote:
> Piyali notequixpoyohuan,
>     Next week I?ll go to Mexico City and meet with administrators of the Mexican National Institute of Indigenous Languages to finish up the details regarding the founding of the Zacatecas State Institute of Indigenous Languages. 
> ...1. You must speak in Nahuatl;
> ...
> 

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From a.appleyard at btinternet.com  Fri Nov 11 16:56:46 2011
From: a.appleyard at btinternet.com (ANTHONY APPLEYARD)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 16:56:46 +0000
Subject: Cross-variant communication
In-Reply-To: <7D738A5F-C439-4A0F-B0A7-0D775B7BA51E@me.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.11.NOV.2011.165646.0000.A.APPLEYARD@BTINTERNET.COM>

Which dialect will be the standard dialect used for official records and suchlike, or will they be using literary Tenochtitlanian Nahuatl?

Has anyone made progress with a Nahuatl to or from English automatic translater?

Citlalyani.

--- On Fri, 11/11/11, John Sullivan <idiez at me.com> wrote:
Piyali notequixpoyohuan,
??? Next week I?ll go to Mexico City and meet with administrators of the Mexican National Institute of Indigenous Languages to finish up the details regarding the founding of the Zacatecas State Institute of Indigenous Languages. 
...1. You must speak in Nahuatl;
...

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From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx  Fri Nov 11 17:47:35 2011
From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 11:47:35 -0600
Subject: hua:c
In-Reply-To: <0640D99A-493F-4415-B7C9-5C4092C73EEE@me.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.11.NOV.2011.114735.0600.DCWRIGHT@PRODIGY.NET.MX>

Are there cases of cua:c without ih- in colonial documents?

-----Mensaje original-----
De: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org [mailto:nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org]
En nombre de John Sullivan
Enviado el: viernes, 11 de noviembre de 2011 10:54
Para: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
Asunto: [Nahuat-l] hua:c

[...]

And Joe, you might want to look at the possibility of removing "ihcua:c"
from the basic morpheme list.
John

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From mmccaffe at indiana.edu  Fri Nov 11 17:47:41 2011
From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 12:47:41 -0500
Subject: hua:c
In-Reply-To: <0640D99A-493F-4415-B7C9-5C4092C73EEE@me.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.11.NOV.2011.124741.0500.MMCCAFFE@INDIANA.EDU>

Hold the horses!

My first observation would be that perhaps modern H.N. "huac-" and your 
friends "kwak" could be *reductions* of original ihcuac, not the 
original forms to which an "ih-" was detached. I'm not sure ihcuac can 
be reduced.

A reduction that somewhat resembles this in Miami-Illinois, an 
Algonquian language, involves an initial short vowel, like our /i-/ in 
ihcuac, preceding an preaspirated consonant, somewhat like our /-hkw-/ 
in ihcuac. In such a case, the initial vowel (and preaspiration 
indicated by /h/) drop off, e.g.,
ahpwaakana 'pipe' --> pwaakana.

Michael

Quoting John Sullivan <idiez at me.com>:

> Piyali notequixpoyohuan,
> 	There?s a morpheme that has been kicking my butt for a long time
> now, ?hua:c?. In Modern Huastecan Nahuatl it only shows up in:
> huaczan (huac+zan), ?at that moment?
> huacoc (huac+oc), ?we?ll see if....?
> huacca (huac+ya), ?then? as in ?Then she went to the store.?
> 	Anyway, today I received a mail from one of the participants in the
> focus group sessions, a woman from Guerrero. In her mail she used
> ?kwac? for ?when, then? which is obviously related to the Classical
> ?ihqua:c?.
> 	For me, this is one of those ?duhh? moments. And Joe, you might want
> to look at the possibility of removing ?ihcua:c? from the basic
> morpheme list.
> John
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>



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From mmccaffe at indiana.edu  Fri Nov 11 18:18:04 2011
From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 13:18:04 -0500
Subject: hua:c
In-Reply-To: <000601cca099$ff4d2cb0$fde78610$@net.mx>
Message-ID: <FRI.11.NOV.2011.131804.0500.MMCCAFFE@INDIANA.EDU>

My experience, David, has been no.

I first encoutered 'cuac' when Joe and I were looking at some modern 
stories. It looks "foreign" for "Classical".

Michael

Quoting David Wright <dcwright at prodigy.net.mx>:

> Are there cases of cua:c without ih- in colonial documents?
>
> -----Mensaje original-----
> De: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org [mailto:nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org]
> En nombre de John Sullivan
> Enviado el: viernes, 11 de noviembre de 2011 10:54
> Para: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> Asunto: [Nahuat-l] hua:c
>
> [...]
>
> And Joe, you might want to look at the possibility of removing "ihcua:c"
> from the basic morpheme list.
> John
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>



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From mmccaffe at indiana.edu  Fri Nov 11 18:19:45 2011
From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 13:19:45 -0500
Subject: my most recent message
Message-ID: <FRI.11.NOV.2011.131945.0500.MMCCAFFE@INDIANA.EDU>

Hold the horses!

My first observation would be that perhaps modern H.N. "huac-" and your 
friends "kwak"could be *reductions* of original ihcuac, not the 
original forms to which an "ih-" was detached.

I should have said "attached".




Very 'tetched,

Michael

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From cuecuex at gmail.com  Sat Nov 12 06:28:10 2011
From: cuecuex at gmail.com (roberto romero)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 00:28:10 -0600
Subject: nitah
In-Reply-To: <CAOZR5EJ6v5BJ1Ee_qFyFFZWVRAO+mUSVVqwqiTu0DV5Oo61YYQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SAT.12.NOV.2011.002810.0600.CUECUEX@GMAIL.COM>

Estimado Jhon y dem?s foristas

En mi primer mail te informaba que en el Sur de Queretaro, en realidad
es en casi todo Quer?taro a las brujas  se les llama tambi?n nanitas y
se dice que estas toman forma de bolas de fuego que saltan de ?rbol en
?rbol, de casa a casa o de cerro a cerro.

Mediante la necesaria exposici?n de algunos datos voy al final a
proponer una posible explicaci?n de porque pienso se les llama nanitas
a las brujas.

En el libro ?Danza tu palabra , La danza de los Concheros?, de la Dra
Yolotl Gonz?lez INAH Plaza y Valdes  se nos da informaci?n sobre  una
capitana de danza conchera de nombre Guadalupe Jim?nez Zanabria quien
dentro de la tradici?n conchera fue llamada Nanita.

La Dra Gonz?lez nos informa  de Guadalupe Jim?nez Sanabria , llamada Nanita

?aparece en algunas escenas del documental El es dios, aunque no como
protagonista. Estuvo muy relacionada con los otros tres capitanes [de
la danza, Faustino, Ortiz y Bernardina Green]

Guadalupe Jim?nez Sanabria , llamada Nanita

? naci? el 19 de septiembre de 1904 en el D.F. De ni?a fue muy
enfermiza, sufr?a convulsiones, por lo que su padre la llev? a un
centro espiritualista trinitario mariano, en donde le indicaron que
para curarse y desarrollarse para recibir un esp?ritu y erigir su
oratorio y que ella tambi?n pod?a curar. Cuando lo hizo, vino un
esp?rit? de nombre Esteban Puebla que hablaba un idioma viejo, que
s?lo entend?a Don Toribio, que es el que lo traduc?a. Puebla fue quien
le ense?o la danza, porque en 1922 cuando fueron a Chalma a levantar
el estandarte, ya lo sab?a. ..Su primera danza fue en Chalma cuando
ten?a 15 a?os y alrededor de 1930 le dieron el nombramiento de
capitana.  ..

Por un tiempo dejo de aparecer  Esteban Puebla, hasta 1987 cuando vino
otra vez a ense?ar la danza y los trajes. Ese mismo a?o ?revole??
[sic] un estandarte nuevo, porque el primero ya se hab?a destruido. ..

Nanita ten?a la capacidad de curar espiritualmente mediante
?canalizaciones? a trav?s de una doctora. Incluso su padre puso un
peque?o hospital para los enfermos. Cuando muri? Don Toribio, a los
126 a?os de edad, su esp?ritu actuaba de traductor del Se?or Puebla,
hasta que lo ense?o ?all?? , que hablara en espa?ol?..

?Nanita tuvo una parte muy activa en muchos de los eventos c?vicos
organizados por varias instancias de gobierno, a veces de conformidad
con otras mesas [la mesa es la organizaci?n conchera ]?Fue invitada
por el gobierno de Nayarit para oficiar en la primera feria de la
Mexicanidad en Mezcaltitlan , en donde se ha ubicado Aztlan, [ una
interpretaci?n que sostiene Alfredo Chavero en el siglo XIX y mas
tarde W. Jim?nez Moreno en el siglo XX] ..

?Nanita muri? en 1993. La `ultima danza  de Nanita? fue el 1 de
diciembre de 1993; una danza, la del sol Tonatiuh, hecha por una
anciana que apenas pod?a mantenerse en pie; suave, despacito, con
armon?a, con amor, con humildad. Ella sab?a que era su ?ltima danza?

Todos los datos que nos ofrece la Dra Yolotl Gonz?les los obtuvo de
una entrevista con el General Conchero  Jes?s Le?n. P179 y 181 del
libro citado.

Sobre la muy bonita e interesante informaci?n que nos ofrece la Dra
Gonzales , de mi parte yo s?lo quisiera anotar para la gente que no lo
sabe  que es eso de un centro espiritualista trinitario mariano.

En M?xico una de los hechos culturales mas interesantes que ocurren al
triunfo de la guerra de reforma y de la derrota de la intervenci?n
francesa es la libertad de cultos que se implantan en M?xico.

En ese ambiente de mayor tolerancia legal religiosa en el pueblo de
Contreras, caminito del Ajusco de las verdes magueyeras, situado en
las afueras de la ciudad de M?xico un antiguo seminarista y entonces
trabajador de imprenta llamado Roque Rojas crea una religi?n donde el
pueblo elegido por dios es el pueblo Mexicano y ser? M?xico  la tierra
donde surgir? la redenci?n del mundo .

En esta religi?n de car?cter milenarista  el mismo Rojas   se ubica
como un ap?stol, el ap?stol   Elias y asume el nombre de Padre Elias
que junto al Padre  Jehova , el Padre Jes?s y el Padre Elias forman la
sant?sima trinidad de esta religi?n.

Esta iglesia  se distingue porque  a diferencia de otras religiones
las mujeres pueden alcanzar las mas altas jerarqu?as y as? sucedi? a
la muerte de Rojas. Fueron mujeres las que ocuparon  las mala altas
dignidades y las que fundaron iglesias surgidas desprendidas de la
iglesia original  del Padre Elias.

Los altares de las iglesias trinitarias marianas reproducen pir?mides
truncas  pero adem?s partidas por en medio,  pues el altar se forma a
partir de una estructrura  de siete escalones empotrados al muro como
si de el asomara la escalinata de una pir?mide de siete cuerpos..

Una caracter?stica principal de esta religi?n es que sus preceptos le
fueron revelados a Roque Rojas por esp?ritus benefactores . Y los
esp?r?tus van a formar parte fundamental de la religi?n

Estos esp?ritus  por via de gente en la cual encarnaban temporalmente,
llamados vasos,  curan de enfermedades de todo tipo a fieles y a gente
que se acerca a ellos.

Estos esp?ritus sanadores tienen la caracter?stica de ser
originalmente esp?ritus de los indios prehisp?nicos  agrupados en una
?atribu? [sic] y eran de la raza ?aztecas?,  otros  otomies, el mismo
Rojas  dijo ser de raza otomi,  son pieles rojas, en general son
esp?ritus de indios antiguos cuivilizados  a los cuales despu? se
agregaron esp?ritus sanadores de origen mestizo que alcanzando su
madurez formaron parte de los ?macaceguas ?, palabra que parece
claramente una corrupci?n de macehual.

Estos esp?ritus sanadores forman una ?atribu? otra deformaci?n de una
palabra en este caso Tribu.

Por medio de los trabajadores de los ferrocarriles esta iglesia
espiritualista del Padre Elias se extendi? por todo el pa?s, lo mismo
que las diversas iglesia que de ella surgieron. Sus templos est?n aun
en la ciudad de M?xico y en otras ciudades del pa?s.

La investigadora que mas ha estudiado el tema Isabel Lagarriga del
INAH,  se?ala que el culto de la Iglesia de Roque Rojas y sus
ramificaciones llego a tener decenas de miles de fieles.

Yo recuerdo que en la colonia de enfrente donde yo viv?a en el DF
hab?a un templo de una de estas iglesias. Otro templo muy famoso se
ubicaba en la Colonia Guerrero, un terreno que originalmente fue un
bario de Tlatelolco

Procesando todos los datos antes vertidos es muy probable que a la
venerable capitana de la danza conchera Do?a Guaalupe se le haya
llamado Nanita precisamente por esa facultad de curar, la cual
ejerc?a por medio de la posesi?n de esp?ritus. Cualidad que fue
desarrollada en una de las iglesias surgidas del culto implantado por
Roque Rojas., la iglesia trinitaria mariana.

Las  curanderas y sanadoras de enfermedades de todo tipo han sido
calificadas como brujas en la confrontaci?n cultural con otros
horizontes culturales, el cat?lico o cristiano durante el feudalismo y
 el renacimiento y con de la misma forma durante el capitalismo.

Quer?taro es considerado una de las mas probables cuna de la tradici?n
de las hermandades y cofradias de Danza conchera, otros posible
or?genes se situan  en Tlaxcala y en Tlatelolco.

Las danzas concheras son una tradici?n centenaria de origen ind?gena,
otomi en sus raices en el caso de Quer?taro, que surgi? durante el
propio proceso de conquista de Queretaro por los otomies , conquista
dada a la autoridad espa?ola a cambio de canonjias para los caciques
otomies.y para los nativos conquistadores del  se?or?o prehisp?nico de
Xilotepec., como  Conni , llamado despu?s Hernando de Tapia, que todo
apunta a que no era de origen noble sino s?lo un astuto comerciante
ambulante interregional.

La danza conchera en sus ritos secretos tiene mucho que ver con
antiguos ritos prehisp?nicos y en ellos la presencia de animas
conquistadoras o esp?ritus esta presente.

El culto de los espiritualistas de Roque Rojas pudo por ello ensamblar
muy bien con gente que profesaba o estaba unida a la tradici?n
conchera.

Quer?taro es todav?a, qui?n sabe en unos a?os mas por la fuerte
emigraci?n,  uno de los mas fuertes reductos  del catolicismo
tradicional en M?xico . Fue una entidad donde se desarroll? la guerra
cristera. Y se dio apoyo material a la misma.

En Quer?taro la palabra nanitas  como una de las denominaciones usadas
para nombrar a las  brujas debe entonces haberse originado de la
presencia de curanderas y sanadoras entre los grupos ind?genas y entre
las hermandades concheras que son aun muy fuertes en la propia ciudad
de Quer?taro, curanderas y sanadoras  que recib?an tal nombre  de
Nanitas como ocurri? con la celebre capitana conchera que era sanadora
usando para ello el recurso del trance al ser pose?da por un esp?ritu
sanador.

La palabra Nanita , usado en un tema de tanta importancia como la
salud , debe haber trascendido el ?mbito de las hermandades concheras
y haberse hecho del conocimiento y del uso por gente ajena a ?stas
hermandades.

 Siendo originalmente la tradicion conchera una manifestaci?ncultural
de campesinos o de pobres de la ciudad, en esos mismo medios sociales
se debe haber difundido  el uso del t?rmino Nanita igual a curandera o
de bruja

Cuando ese t?rmino llego a o?dos de personas de otras clases sociales
o con otro horizonte cultural , sobre todo con una visi?n dictada por
el catolicismo institucional, en la cual sanadora , chamana o
curandera es id?ntico a bruja el termino Nanita paso a ser
denominaci?n de bruja.

A ello se a?ade el hecho que desde la ?poca prehisp?nica  la regi?n
queretana  a estado unida culturalmente a regiones vecinas de
Michoacan y Guanajuato  asiento de los llamados Tarascos como naci?n
hegem?nica  del conjunto muy diverso de naciones indias que
conformaban su imperio .

Es el caso que seg?n el diccionario Aulex purepecha  espa?ol, la
palabra bruja se  traduce como nanaka s?kuami, siendo embrujar
sikuami.  Mientras que abuela es  nanita, nana k?eri.

 En el mundo occidental por lo menos particularmente desde el
surgimiento del capitalismo , las ancianas han sido elegidas como
expresi?n corporal del horror y del mal  son opr ello una imagen
arquet?pica de  las brujas como lo apuntan los cuentos infantiles o
cuentos de hadas., as? como los datos de estudios sobre el exterminio
de las llamadas brujas en los albores del capitalismo.

El mundo mestizo de estas regiones queretanas y Guanajuatense , el mal
lamado ba?o,  pudo retomar tambi?n la palabra tarasca Abuela: Nanita
como bruja pues tiene parecido desde el lenguaje indigena con Nanaka
la forma de nombrar a la bruja en dicho idioma

En lo personal adem?s de reflexionar sobre el tema que usted propuso
me permite rectificar y conocer que la palabra nana y nanita son
palabras de origen ind?gena, nahuatl como usted se?alo al inicio del
tema, pero tambi?nexistentes en otros idiomas ,   independientemente
que la misma palabra por su sencillez y ductibilidad musical pueda
estar presente en el folklore negro de otros pa?ses.

Todos podemos aprehender algo todos los d?as si estamos dispuesto a hacerlo.

Y con esto concluyo

Roberto Romero Guti?rrez


El 11/11/11, roberto romero <cuecuex at gmail.com> escribi?:
> Hola John y dem?s foristas
>
> No se si dios existe o el azar  nos atrapa en su tupido entramado,  el
> caso es que hoy  desayunando y cambiando hist?ricamente los canales
> del cable llegue a uno donde se presentaba un documental en el llamado
> Espacio Edusat.
>
> El documental en cuesti?n fue filmado o producido en el a?o de 1987.
> Como productor estaba el Instituto Nacional Indigenista INI ,  el
> documental fue filmado bajo la direcc??n de Alfredo Portillo  y la
> regi?n donde fue filmado fue la regi?n de la monta?a de Guerrero,
> concretamente la regi?n de las comunidades de Acatl?n y Zitlata,  esto
> es la regi?n de la monta?a de Guerrero,  como no vi el inicio del
> docuemental no puedo dar el t?tulo.
>
> El tema del documental era la fiesta de la Santa Cruz, las danzas de
> Tlacolol y las peleas de Tecuanis  o Tigres que en fiestas religiosas
> de la regi?n ocurren.
>
> La regi?n en la ?poca prehisp?nica fue parte de la regi?n Yopi, los
> adoradores de Xipe Totec o el tezcalipoca Rojo,  por lo cual dice
> Sahag?n sus fan?ticos adoradores se pintaban todo el tiempo el cuerpo
> de rojo.
>
> Se sabe por documentaci?n colonial que por motu propio  llegaron a  la
> regi?n colonos Xochimilcas y  otros colonos de habla nahua   que
> implantaron en la regi?n los conquistadores Tenochcas.
>
> La regi?n de la monta?a de Guerrerero es una de las regiones mas
> pobres entre las muchas regiones miserables que salpican la geograf?a
> de M?xico . Su nivel de vida es comparable al de la zona del  sub
> sahara africano,  mientras del otro lado Mexico es cuna del hombre mas
> rico del mundo cuya fortuna no se basa en un producto de consumo
> mundial sino b?sicamente en las ganancias de un monopolio nacional.
>
> Esta misreable regi?n en lo econ?mico es parad?jicamente riqu?sima en
> su tradici?n cultural yen su historia
>
> La monta?a de Guerrero desde los a?os 60?s del siglo XX  fue cuna de
> movimientos guerrilleros de ideolog?a marxista , la primera encabezada
> por el profesor Genaro Vazquez. Y de entonces a la fecha esa tradici?n
> continua. Desde los a?os 80?s es  salen de esta zona peones agricolas
> que temporalmente son explotados vilmente en los modernos campos
> horticolas que producen los tomates y las calabacitas que se serviran
> en las mesas de USA. La monta?a es tambi?n una zona de cultivo
> amapolero y de extracci?n de goma de opio, especializaci?n agr?cola
> que surgi? cuando el territorio  de cultivo de amapola en M?xico se
> extendi? a otras regiones despu?s de que el ejercito barri? con las
> comunidades campesinas amapoleras del ?triangulo dorado? , que existe
> en el territorio monta?osos donde se juntan , los estado de Chihuahua,
> Sinaloa y Durango.
>
> Pues bien llegando al tema que nos ocupa de la Nana y la tripa debo
> se?alarte que en dicho documental esta grabado como en el
> levantamiento de la Santa Cruz de Mayo, ritual principal de petici?n
> de lluvias en esa zona , como lo han documentado diversos antrop?logos
> .
>
> Resulta que uno de los rituales filmados y que estaba ya entonces  en
> v?as de extinci?n de esta fiesta ritual era el colgar las tripas de un
> animal de los brazos de la cruz.
>
>  El Alzamiento de la cruz y la colocaci?n de las tripas de animal en
> la misma  estaba acompa?ado de invocaciones y rezos a la cruz  como
> una deidad en si misma, a la virgen Mar?a pidiendo su intervenci?n y a
> Dios.
>
> No especifico el narrador ni el investigador si las  tripas eran de
> vaca o de cerdo. Yo creo que eran de  marrano por la pobreza del
> terreno de la sierra , es mas f?cil  crear un cu?no que una vaca.
>
> Las cruces  estaban adornada ya solo por un arco del material que aqu?
> en el sur de Queretaro se le llama cucharilla. El narrador indigena en
> nahuatl y con subtitulos en castellano explicaba que antes cada cruz
> ten?a su propio arco
>
> El objeto de colgar las tripas en los brazos de la cruz  era provocar
> o inducir un buen augurio que se  anunciaba si los zopilotes se
> acercaban y  com?an las tripas  del animal colgadas de la cruz.
>
>  Si as? lo hac?an y se posaban despu?s de ello en los brazos de la
> cruz, ese acto era se?al de augurio de un buen temporal de lluvias que
> alimentara las parcelas de estos ind?genas sembradas con la coa o palo
> plantador el mas ?til y mas adecuado instrumento para sembrar en estos
> terrenos escarpados y con grandes declives mayores a 45?
>
> El ritual se estaba exterminando porque en la regi?n ya ni los
> zopilotes se paraba, acaso por la extrema miseria de la zona,  que
> hace que ya ni carro?a exista pues esa tambi?n la devoran los humanos,
>  acaso por haberse exterminado los zopilotes.
>
> Debe recordarse que muchos de los dioses principales en la religi?n
> prehisp?nica estaban representados en aves de rapi?a ( ?guilas,
> halcones , buitres , zopilotes).
>
> Creo que por aqu? en este ritual de lluvias esta la liga del culto
> ritual a las tripas y la palabra Nana .
>
> El dato anterior me record? un oscuro pasaje del c?dice Azcatitla,
> respetando su ortograf?a original sin n al final, que trata de la
> emigraci?n desde dicho lugar Azcatitla hasta fundar Tenochtitlan y aun
> hasta los primeros a?os de la conquista espa?ola.
>
> En la l?mina V  de dicho c?dice Azcatitla, se pinta el lugar
> Chicomoztoc representado por un osos de seis patas, e inmediatamente
> despu?s de ?ste sitio se pinta un r?o. En el r?o dos petates y dos
> cuerpos flota boca abajo.
>
>  Entre el primer petate  y el primer cuerpo una vara con una especie
> de anillos que  rodean la vara o b?culo.
>
>  En el inicio del r?o un ?rbol  y al lado del ?rbol Huitzilopochtli
> con cuerpo de ave y rostro humano enciende el fuego ?nuevo o que fuego
> ?
>
>  Abajo una cabeza decapitada de un personaje que porta como divisa un
> par de plumas de ?guila aztatelli que lo identifican como adorador de
> Mixcoatl, y debajo de el un arco y flecha que lo identifica como
> chichimeca.
>
>   En la otra ribera opuesta frente al ?rbol se?alado se encuentra la
> pintura de un templo  y a su lado  un personaje masculino sentado  que
> viste algod?n.
>
> Luego hacia abajo una mujer sentada y vestida de algod?n junto a un
> pueblo, parece representar la gobernante o shamana de ese lugar y
> luego otro personaje masculino tambi?n sentado y vestido de algod?n.
>
> Al lado de estos dos ?ltimos personajes aparece el primer petate
> se?alado y el primer cuerpo boca abajo y la especie de b?culo con los
> anillos   junto a ellos una leyenda en Nahuatl  que en la traducci?n
> de R. Barlow dice:
>
>  ?All? se encantaron durante cuatro a?os. All? sal?an a Cintocoyan .
> Las entra?as humanas en el petate les dejo su dios de ellos?.
>
> El pasaje explica que los anillos ensartados que flotan en una vara en
> el agua  son tripas en este caso de humano.
>
> El gran investigador Robert Barlow no dio una interpretaci?n del
> pasaje Y quien esto escribe menos a?n se atreve a darlo.
>
> Solo puedo anotar que el ?nico elemento com?n  entre este pasaje de
> las tripas humanas que dejo su dios sobre un r?o del c?dice Azcatitla
> y de las tripas de animal que se ponen en la fiesta de la santa cruz
> del tres de mayo , lo ?nico com?n  en ambos pasajes es el agua
> presente como rio o como petici?n  de que por piedad los dioses la
> env?en a los cultivos de los indios.
>
> Los tacos de Nana , la tripa del cerdo, adem?s de una buena comida nos
> pueden mover la curiosidad y llevarnos a interesantes sorpresas.
>
> Roberto Romero Gutierrez
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 2011/11/11, John Sullivan <idiez at me.com>:
>> MIchael,
>> 	One of the things I really like about combining the study of Classical
>> and
>> Modern is that in Classical we only see finished products of cases of
>> vowel
>> elision, haplology and other situations where words shrink. With Modern
>> variants these processes are evolving right in front of your eyes (or
>> next
>> to your ears).
>> John
>>
>> On Nov 10, 2011, at 6:49 PM, Michael McCafferty wrote:
>>
>>> Curious piece of language here, John.
>>>
>>> Also, it's interesting how such a creation could confuse Nahuatl
>>> speakers.
>>>
>>> In my case, I was looking for "notah" or "nitahtli," which I'm not sure
>>> is
>>> possible in modern dialects, not "nitah".
>>>
>>> Michael
>>>
>>>
>>> Quoting John Sullivan <idiez at me.com>:
>>>
>>>> Piyali notequixpoyohuan,
>>>> 	Here?s a fun one. ?nitah?, is an expression of surprise or
>>>> astonishment used in Modern Huastecan Nahuatl. Sometimes used in the
>>>> expression, ?nitah totiotzin (noteotzin).?
>>>> 1. ?nitah? is actually a shortened form of the Mexican Spanish
>>>> ?nanita,? ?mamita,? referring to the Virgin Mary
>>>> 2. ?nanita? comes from the Nahuatl ?nantli? plus the Spanish
>>>> diminutive ?-ita?
>>>> 3. But as we all know, Mexican Spanish has taken the Spanish
>>>> diminutive and used it to substitute for the Nahuatl
>>>> diminutive-honorific ?-tzin.?
>>>> 	How that for (de)colonial morphology? And see, I?m actually using
>>>> some up-to-date theoretical terminology.
>>>> John
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Nahuatl mailing list
>>>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>>>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nahuatl mailing list
>>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nahuatl mailing list
>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>>
>
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From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx  Sun Nov 13 00:56:39 2011
From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 18:56:39 -0600
Subject: Tunas and purslane
Message-ID: <SAT.12.NOV.2011.185639.0600.DCWRIGHT@PRODIGY.NET.MX>

Listeros:

 

I?m sorry to have to bring this up again, but I hadn?t finished correcting
my table of plants in Hern?ndez?s botanical treatise that appear to be
varieties of itzm:itl (or i:tzmi:tl) when I sent the second version, on
November 9 (several references to book 11 were incorrectly assigned to book
10). I?m sending it again, so the final version can be stored on this list?s
archives at the FAMSI and The Linguist List websites.

 

Saludos,

 

David

 

****************************************************************************
******************

 

aitzmitl (1) - book 3, chapter 67 - vol. 1, p. 232 (1790) - vol. 2, p. 369
(1942-1946)

 

aitzmitl (2) - book 3, chapter 211 - vol. 1, p. 318 (1790) - vol. 2, p. 480
(1942-1946)

 

itzmiquilitl - book 11, chapter 48 - vol. 2, p. 468 (1790) - (not in
1942-1946 edition)

 

tepetetzmitl - book 11, chapter 50 - vol. 2, p. 469 (1790) - (not in
1942-1946 edition)

 

tepitontetzmitl - book 11, chapter 56 - vol. 2, p. 471 (1790) - (not in
1942-1946 edition)

                             

tetzmilpatli - book 11, chapter 54 - vol. 2, p. 470 (1790) - (not in
1942-1946 edition)

 

tetzmitl (1) - book 1, chapter 161 - vol. 1, p. 89 (1790) - vol. 1, p. 140
(1942-1946)

 

tetzmitl (2) - book 11, chapter 52 - vol. 2, p. 470 (1790) - (not in
1942-1946 edition)

 

tetzmitl (3) - book 11, chapter 53 - vol. 2, p. 470 (1790) - (not in
1942-1946 edition)

 

tetzmitl (4) - book 19, chapter 306 - vol. 3, p. 306 (1790) - (not in
1942-1946 edition)

 

tlaltetzmitl - book 11, chapter 55 - vol. 2, p. 471 (1790) - (not in
1942-1946 edition)

 

Web sources

 

Hern?ndez, Francisco

 

2010    Historia de las plantas de Nueva Espa?a, digital facsimile of the
1942-1946 ed., 3 vols., Isaac Ochoterena, director, Mexico, Instituto de
Bot?nica, Universidad Nacional Aut?noma de M?xico, 2010

http://www.ibiologia.unam.mx/plantasnuevaespana

access: Nov. 6, 2011.

 

not dated    ?Opera [De historia plantarum novae hispaniae]?, 3 vols.,
facs?mil digital de la ed. de 1790, en Google Books

http://books.google.com/books?id=zX6pXnGTnowC&dq=related%3AHARVARD3204410726
3105&hl=es&pg=PP1#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=ArT6VtFZX38C&dq=related%3AHARVARD3204410726
3105&hl=es&pg=PP5#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=CGug2EKWcwoC&dq=related%3AHARVARD3204410726
3105&hl=es&pg=PP5#v=onepage&q&f=false

access: Nov. 6, 2011.

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From bleeming at gmail.com  Fri Nov 18 13:25:23 2011
From: bleeming at gmail.com (Ben Leeming)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 08:25:23 -0500
Subject: linguistic hypertrophism
Message-ID: <FRI.18.NOV.2011.082523.0500.BLEEMING@GMAIL.COM>

Hola todos listeros!
I come to you seeking to tap into your collective knowledge of our beloved
colonial Nahuatl sources (crowd-sourcing?) in an effort to further develop
my database of words that fall into a category that Bierhorst terms
"linguistic hypertrophism" (1985:47).  You know the words I am talking
about, those wonderfully long strings of morphemes such as: *
tiquetzalzacuanxiuhquecholhuihuicomacan* (?let?s make
troupial-and-turquiose swan plumes twirl? [from *Cantares Mexicanos*, Bierhorst
1985:47]) and *onquetzalchalchiuhtlapitzalicaoacatiaque* (?They went
chirping like flutes of quetzal-green jade? [Burkhart 1992:96, quoting from
the *Psalmodia Christiana *of Sahag?n]).  I have always loved these words
and have now decided to investigate them more methodically.  I was hoping
you might be able to steer me in the direction of additional examples of
this phenomenon, or towards specific sources that you suspect contain them.
 Additionally, if you know of any authors who have addressed this
phenomenon (either for Nahuatl or any other language) I would appreciate
that information, too.  My initial inquiries suggest that this is a topic
that has not yet been addressed.

Thank you in advance for your help!

Ben

-- 
Ben Leeming
PhD Student
Department of Anthropology
University at Albany, SUNY
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From micc2 at cox.net  Fri Nov 18 17:58:20 2011
From: micc2 at cox.net (Mario E. Aguilar)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 09:58:20 -0800
Subject: linguistic hypertrophism
In-Reply-To: <CAN_9ErUYyR0gtUok0TC1xOCFrCok1N=w6GMfG=Szw=Ekzq_kgA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.18.NOV.2011.095820.0800.MICC2@COX.NET>

  I too would like this info!!!
  I know wthat there has been controversy surounding Bierhort's 
translations but still Burkhart has many.

Thanks!

I live for reasoned, enlightened spirituality:

"Tlacecelilli", tranquilidad, paz


Mario E. Aguilar, PhD

www.mexicayotl.net
www.aguila-blanca.com


On 11/18/2011 5:25 AM, Ben Leeming wrote:
> Hola todos listeros!
> I come to you seeking to tap into your collective knowledge of our beloved
> colonial Nahuatl sources (crowd-sourcing?) in an effort to further develop
> my database of words that fall into a category that Bierhorst terms
> "linguistic hypertrophism" (1985:47).  You know the words I am talking
> about, those wonderfully long strings of morphemes such as: *
> tiquetzalzacuanxiuhquecholhuihuicomacan* (?let?s make
> troupial-and-turquiose swan plumes twirl? [from *Cantares Mexicanos*, Bierhorst
> 1985:47]) and *onquetzalchalchiuhtlapitzalicaoacatiaque* (?They went
> chirping like flutes of quetzal-green jade? [Burkhart 1992:96, quoting from
> the *Psalmodia Christiana *of Sahag?n]).  I have always loved these words
> and have now decided to investigate them more methodically.  I was hoping
> you might be able to steer me in the direction of additional examples of
> this phenomenon, or towards specific sources that you suspect contain them.
>   Additionally, if you know of any authors who have addressed this
> phenomenon (either for Nahuatl or any other language) I would appreciate
> that information, too.  My initial inquiries suggest that this is a topic
> that has not yet been addressed.
>
> Thank you in advance for your help!
>
> Ben
>

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Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
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From campbel at indiana.edu  Fri Nov 18 18:27:29 2011
From: campbel at indiana.edu (Campbell, R. Joe)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 13:27:29 -0500
Subject: linguistic hypertrophism
In-Reply-To: <CAN_9ErUYyR0gtUok0TC1xOCFrCok1N=w6GMfG=Szw=Ekzq_kgA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.18.NOV.2011.132729.0500.CAMPBEL@INDIANA.EDU>

Hey Ben,

   I looked in the Florentine Codex and found some words that I used to 
consider long until I saw your examples.  A good number reach their 
length by containing multiple prefixes (e.g. mitz-on-mo, 
o-an-qui-hual-mo,
t(i)-amech-to-tla, etc.), benefactive -ili(a), and by adding -que or 
zque suffixes.

   You will notice that these words are *regularized* from the 
Florentine spelling (no j's, no o's for hu, etc.), but don't indicate 
glottal stops.
The list of words is followed by the sentence context that each word was
found in.

Joe

p.s. "in" is a rare sentence-final preposition sometimes found in English.
|8-)


cacahuatlaquetzalnamacaque**
cuitlachehuatepotzoicpalli**
intetlahuehuetzquiticahuan**
mitzommotlatlatlalililitiaque**
moteotetlatzontequililitzi**
oanquihualmocxinamiquilique**
oquimotlaocolnonochilitinen**
quimmotzonteconacocuiliznequi**
quimoncuexcochhuihuitecque**
quincuacuatemotzoltzitzque**
quincuatemotzoltzitzquitihui**
quinhualcuitlapanhuitiaque**
quinteocallayahualochtiaya**
tamechtotlalcahualtilizque**
techhualcaltechpachotiaque**
tetlanahualchichihuiliztica**
tictotlahuehuetzquitilican**
tihualtotzonteconacocuizque**
timitztohuellamachtilizque**
timocuetzpaltempictihuetziz**
timotetlatzetzelhuazhuilia**
tocommotlahueltetequililia**
tompilhuacateuhtlamatizque**
xiquintlacuauhtzitzquiltica**
xiuhchimaltonatimomanaquiuh**
xocommotlaocolnonochilican**
xocommotlaocolnonochilitinencan**
xocommotlaocolnonochilitinemi**
xocommotlaocolnonochilitocan**
xompilhuacateuhtlamattocan**

************


cacahuatlaquetzalnamacaque**

1. inic cempoalli onchicuacen capitulo: intechpa tlatoa in atolnamacaque,
     ihuan in *cacahuatlaquetzalnamacaque* ihuan in tequixquinamacaque.
      twenty-sixth chapter, which telleth of the atole sellers,
     and the sellers of prepared chocolate, and the sellers of
     saltpeter. (b.10 f.5 p.93).

cuitlachehuatepotzoicpalli**

2. oceloehuatepotzoicpalli, micehuatepotzoicpalli, 
*cuitlachehuatepotzoicpalli*,
     ocotochehuatepotzoicpalli, cuetlaxtepotzoicpalli, oceloehuaicpalli,
     micehuaicpalli, cuitlachehuaicpalli, cuetlaxicpalli, ocotochehuaicpalli,
     cuihuehuaicpalli,.
      the ocelot skin seat with a back rest; the mountain lion
     skin seat with a back rest; the wolf skin seat with a back
     rest; the mountain cat skin seat with a back rest; the cured
     leather seat with a back rest; the ocelot skin seat, the
     mountain lion skin seat, the wolf skin seat, the cured leather
     seat, the mountain cat skin seat, the coyote skin seat.
     (b.8 f.2 p.31).

intetlahuehuetzquiticahuan**

3. oncatca *intetlahuehuetzquiticahuan* in quimellelquixtiaya,
     in quicecemeltia:.
      there were their jesters who provided them solace and gave
     them pleasure. (b.8 f.2 p.30).

mitzommotlatlatlalililitiaque**

4. auh in ohuel mitzontlatetequilitiaque, in ohuel 
*mitzommotlatlatlalililitiaque*
     in titloque, in tinahuaque, in timoyocoya, in timoquequeloa:.
      and they ordered, they arranged things well for thee, thou
     who art lord of the near, of the nigh, thou who art moyocoya,
     thou who are moquequeloa. (b.6 f.2 p.22).

moteotetlatzontequililitzi**

5. iyoyahue, toteucyoe, diose, in icuac niquitztimotlalia, in
     motlatlaliltzin, in ohui *moteotetlatzontequililitzi*: ca
     cenca ninomauhtia, cenca ninizahuia:.
      alas, o lord god, when I consider thy commandments, the
     sternness of thy divine judgments, much am I afraid, much
     am I terrified. (b.1 f.105 p.76).

oanquihualmocxinamiquilique**

6. quimilhuia. toteucyohuane, tlamacazquee, nican anhualmohuicatiaque
     amocxitzin anquihualmanilique, ahzo tlacotl, zacatl cana
     *oanquihualmocxinamiquilique*, ahzo cana amocxitzin 
oanquihualmocuelhuique,
     oanquihualmotecuinilique;.
      they said to them: "o our lords, o priests, you have come
     to come here; you have used your feet; perhaps straws, grass
     you have somewhere touched with your feet; perhaps somewhere
     you have injured your feet; you have stumbled against something."
     (b.3 f.4 p.61).

oquimotlaocolnonochilitinen**

7. nelli mach in *oquimotlaocolnonochilitinen* toteucyo, tloque,
     nahuaque:.
      certainly he went crying out in sadness unto our lord,
     the lord of the near, of the nigh. (b.6 f.9 p.109).

quimmotzonteconacocuiliznequi**

8. ahzo *quimmotzonteconacocuiliznequi* in huehueixtitihui..
      perhaps he wisheth to lift the heads of those who will
     go increasing in dignity. (b.6 f.12 p.142).

quimoncuexcochhuihuitecque**

9. acaloco in *quimoncuexcochhuihuitecque*, huitzantica,.
      at the canal they struck each one on the back of the head
     with wooden staves. (b.12 f.4 p.58).

quincuacuatemotzoltzitzque**

10. auh in quixquichtin, in oaxihuaque, oquintetecpanque, 
quintzitzitzquitimani,
     incuexcochteuh quimaanilitimani, *quincuacuatemotzoltzitzquitimani*,
     cequintin immaxtlahuicoltitech quimaantimani..
      and as many as had been detained [for transgressions] they
     arranged, each one, in order; they grasped each one firmly;
     they took them each by the napes of their necks, they seized
     each one firmly by the head; some they grasped, each one,
     by the ends of their breechclouts. (b.2 f.4 p.85).

quincuatemotzoltzitzquitihui**

11. amo yehhuanti quimmictiaya in maleque, zan tequitl quimoncahuaya,
     zan tequitl temac quimoncahuaya, *quincuatemotzoltzitzquitihui*,
     incuatla quimantihui, imicpac quimantihui,.
      those who had captives did not slay them; they no more
     than left them, they no more than left them in the hands
     of [the priests], who went seizing them, pulling them by
     their heads; they went taking them by [the hair of] their
     heads; they went taking them by [the hair of] the tops of
     their heads. (b.2 f.1 p.46).

quinhualcuitlapanhuitiaque**

12. ye no ceppa centlamantli hualehuaque in cahuallome, 
*quinhualcuitlapanhuitiaque*..
      once again a group of horse[men] ran by; they went following
     after [the others]. (b.12 f.6 p.86).

quinteocallayahualochtiaya**

13. auh in oquizato painalton: niman ye ic temanalo, tetecpanalo:
     in ixpan huitzilobochtli, in oncan apetlac, nappa in 
*quinteocallayahualochtiaya*..
      and when painalton proceeded to emerge, thereupon [the
     bathed slaves] were placed in order, arranged in rows, before
     [the image of] uitzilopochtli; there at the pyramid landing
     they four times took them in procession around the [pyramid]
     temple. (b.9 f.5 p.65).

tamechtotlalcahualtilizque**

14. at amo ihuian ammoyetzticate, tamechtotlapololtilizque, 
*tamechtotlalcahualtilizque*,.
      perhaps ye are without tranquility; we shall trouble you,
     we shall embarrass you. (b.6 f.11 p.135).

techhualcaltechpachotiaque**

15. auh zan ihuian *techhualcaltechpachotiaque*, zan ihuian techololalique..
      and quite tranquilly [the foe] pressed us back as if with
     a wall; quite tranquilly they herded us. (b.12 f.7 p.105).

tetlanahualchichihuiliztica**

16. in za iztlacatiliztica, tetentlapiquiliztica, 
*tetlanahualchichihuiliztica*:
     in quintlatzontequiliaya nahualoztomeca intiachcahuan, inic
     quimmictiaya, in atle intlatlacol: zan nexicoliztica inic
     inca mozcaltiaya in cuachichicti, in otomi, in yaotachcahuan:.
      then the chieftains, in envy, falsely, by means of false
     testimony, with imagined deeds, condemned the disguised
     merchants, in order to slay the innocent, so that by means
     of [their goods] the shorn ones, the otomi warriors, the
     war leaders, might be sustained. separated in the document
     (b.9 f.3 p.32).

tictotlahuehuetzquitilican**

17. manozoc tictotlatolchialican, auh manozoc *tictotlahuehuetzquitilican*
     in toteucyo:.
      let us yet await the word of the lord. let us yet provide
     laughter for him. (b.6 f.5 p.61).

tihualtotzonteconacocuizque**

18. no oncan o, mopaltzinco *tihualtotzonteconacocuizque*, titechixpatlahuaz:.
      "also there, because of thee we will raise up our heads;
     thou wilt render us honor. (b.6 f.8 p.97).

timitztohuellamachtilizque**

19. ihuan titechmomaquilia in motenahuatiltzin, inic huel 
*timitztohuellamachtilizque*:.
      and thou offerest us thy commandments that we may obey
     thee. (b.1 f.4 p.66).

timocuetzpaltempictihuetziz**

20. tlalli tiquitototztihuetziz, *timocuetzpaltempictihuetziz*..
      "thou wilt stir up the dust; thou wilt suddenly be enclosed
     in the jaws of the lizard!" (b.4 f.8 p.83).

timotetlatzetzelhuazhuilia**

21. auh in oncan titlahuehuetzquitilo, in oncan timotepepenilia,
     *timotetlatzetzelhuazhuilia*, in oncan intlan tinemi, in
     intlan tipaqui in huel mocnihuan, in nelli motlaiximachhuan,.
      "and there thou art provided with laughter; there thou
     selectest one, thou screenest one out; there thou livest,
     thou rejoicest among thy real friends, thy true acquaintances."
     (b.6 f.4 p.44).

tocommotlahueltetequililia**

22. oc tehhuatzin tocommotlapialilia in toteucyo: oc tehhuatzin
     *tocommotlahueltetequililia* in petlapan, in icpalpan in
     imahuizyocan:.
      thou yet guardest it for our lord; thou yet placest the
     government, his place of honor, in good order. (b.6 f.15
     p.187).

tompilhuacateuhtlamatizque**

23. auh ano mopal *tompilhuacateuhtlamatizque* ano mopal 
tihualoquichtlamatizque..
      and will we not also through thee experience parenthood,
     experience manhood? (b.6 f.6 p.77).

xiquintlacuauhtzitzquiltica**

24. auh in ixquich in tlamacehualiztli, in yohualtamachihuiliztli
     in ixtozoliztli: xiquincuitlahuiltica *xiquintlacuauhtzitzquiltica*,.
      and [instruct them in] all the penances, the fixing of
     the divisions of the night, the vigils: take care of them;
     keep them firmly in your grasp. of the patient? more likely:
     urge them (b.9 f.2 p.15).

xiuhchimaltonatimomanaquiuh**

25. cuix oc ceppa xiuhchimaltonatimomanaz. anozo cuix oc ceppa
     *xiuhchimaltonatimomanaquiuh*..
      will perchance the turquoise shield appear shining? or:
     will perchance the turquoise shield come to appear shining?
     (b.1 f.105 p.81).

xocommotlaocolnonochilican**

26. auh in axcan manozo nelli *xocommotlaocolnonochilican* in
     toteucyo, in tloque, nahuaque:.
      "and now verily call out in contriteness to our lord, the
     lord of the near, of the nigh. (b.6 f.15 p.181).

xocommotlaocolnonochilitinencan**

27. ma amommotlacochcahuiliti, ma oc *xocommotlaocolnonochilitinencan*
     in tloque nahuaque, quen techmonequililia, quen quimitalhuia..
      do not abandon sorrow; yet live calling out for compassion
     to the lord of the near, of the nigh, as to what he requireth
     of you, what he sayeth." (b.3 f.4 p.53).

xocommotlaocolnonochilitinemi**

28. auh ma oc mochoquiz, ma oc motlaocol xoconixcahui, ma oc
     *xocommotlaocolnonochilitinemi* in toteucyo:.
      and give thyself exclusively to thy weeping, thy sorrowing;
     go calling to our lord in sadness. (b.6 f.3 p.32).

xocommotlaocolnonochilitocan**

29. ma oc nelle axcan *xocommotlaocolnonochilitocan* in teootl,
     in tlatoani, in tloque, nahuaque, in moyocoya, in moquequeloa:.
      verily, even now call out in sorrow to the god, the ruler,
     the lord of the near, of the nigh, the one who doth as he
     pleaseth, the one who mocketh. (b.6 f.15 p.186).

xompilhuacateuhtlamattocan**

30. ma oc *xompilhuacateuhtlamattocan*:.
      consider yourselves as parents. (b.6 f.15 p.186).




Quoting Ben Leeming <bleeming at gmail.com>:

> Hola todos listeros!
> I come to you seeking to tap into your collective knowledge of our beloved
> colonial Nahuatl sources (crowd-sourcing?) in an effort to further develop
> my database of words that fall into a category that Bierhorst terms
> "linguistic hypertrophism" (1985:47).  You know the words I am talking
> about, those wonderfully long strings of morphemes such as: *
> tiquetzalzacuanxiuhquecholhuihuicomacan* (?let?s make
> troupial-and-turquiose swan plumes twirl? [from *Cantares Mexicanos*,
> Bierhorst
> 1985:47]) and *onquetzalchalchiuhtlapitzalicaoacatiaque* (?They went
> chirping like flutes of quetzal-green jade? [Burkhart 1992:96, quoting from
> the *Psalmodia Christiana *of Sahag?n]).  I have always loved these words
> and have now decided to investigate them more methodically.  I was hoping
> you might be able to steer me in the direction of additional examples of
> this phenomenon, or towards specific sources that you suspect contain them.
> Additionally, if you know of any authors who have addressed this
> phenomenon (either for Nahuatl or any other language) I would appreciate
> that information, too.  My initial inquiries suggest that this is a topic
> that has not yet been addressed.
>
> Thank you in advance for your help!
>
> Ben
>
> --
> Ben Leeming
> PhD Student
> Department of Anthropology
> University at Albany, SUNY
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>



_______________________________________________
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Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
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From cienhuac at gmail.com  Sat Nov 19 23:33:32 2011
From: cienhuac at gmail.com (velez ramirez)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 17:33:32 -0600
Subject: Occequi tlahtolpol
Message-ID: <SAT.19.NOV.2011.173332.0600.CIENHUAC@GMAIL.COM>

tocnihuan
este es un extracto del libro de guillermo ortiz de montellano de 1990
editado por la UIA de mexico titulado NICAN MOPOHUA.

pag 66:
"Ahora mencionaremos un poema desconocido que el jesuita Antonio del
Rinc?n trae en su Arte Mexicana impresa en mexico en 1595......Dice
as?:

 Tlauhquechollaztalehualtohtonnatoc
Ayauhcozamalotonnameyohtimani
Xiuhcoyoltzitzilicca in teocuitlahuehuetl
Xiuhtlapallahcuilolamoxtli manca
Nicchalchiuhcozcamecaquemmachtohtoma in nocuic"   12 silabas!


Ser?a bueno poder escuchar recitados estos poemas! a ver quien no se traba.


valerio velasco
_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx  Sun Nov 20 22:20:08 2011
From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 16:20:08 -0600
Subject: Occequi tlahtolpol
In-Reply-To: <CAAA-RM1QHk4f8X5O_VBWiUC5dDnMg9i2T+ZC7HVEhmeFx7K5Ng@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SUN.20.NOV.2011.162008.0600.DCWRIGHT@PRODIGY.NET.MX>

El primer lugar, hasta ahora, lo tiene
onquetzalchalchiuhtlapitzalicaoacatiaque (de Leeming y Burkhart), con 32
fonemas (m?s un saltillo final, invisible, para un total de 33) y 16
s?labas.

Con 31 fonemas y 12 s?labas, Nicchalchiuhcozcamecaquemmachtohtoma est?
empatada para el segundo lugar (si privilegiamos la cuenta de los fonemas),
con tiquetzalzacuanxiuhquecholhuihuicomacan (de Leeming y Bierhorst), que
tiene un peso de 31 fonemas y 13 s?labas.

Las palabras m?s pesadas de la lista que envi? Joe son
xocommotlaocolnonochilitinencan (29 fonemas y 13 s?labas) y
xocommotlaocolnonochilitinemi (27 fonemas y 13 s?labas).

Podr?a haber m?s saltillos escondidos que aumentar?a la cuenta de los
fonemas de alguna de estas palabrotas; no he hecho los an?lisis morfol?gicos
para averiguarlo.

-----Mensaje original-----
De: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org [mailto:nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org]
En nombre de velez ramirez
Enviado el: s?bado, 19 de noviembre de 2011 17:34
Para: nahuatl; nahuatl-owner at lists.famsi.org
Asunto: [Nahuat-l] Occequi tlahtolpol

tocnihuan
este es un extracto del libro de guillermo ortiz de montellano de 1990
editado por la UIA de mexico titulado NICAN MOPOHUA.

pag 66:
"Ahora mencionaremos un poema desconocido que el jesuita Antonio del
Rinc?n trae en su Arte Mexicana impresa en mexico en 1595......Dice
as?:

 Tlauhquechollaztalehualtohtonnatoc
Ayauhcozamalotonnameyohtimani
Xiuhcoyoltzitzilicca in teocuitlahuehuetl
Xiuhtlapallahcuilolamoxtli manca
Nicchalchiuhcozcamecaquemmachtohtoma in nocuic"   12 silabas!


Ser?a bueno poder escuchar recitados estos poemas! a ver quien no se traba.


valerio velasco
_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl

_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From bleeming at gmail.com  Sun Nov 20 22:26:00 2011
From: bleeming at gmail.com (Ben Leeming)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 17:26:00 -0500
Subject: Nahuatl Digest, Vol 237, Issue 4
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3.1321812002.9542.nahuatl@lists.famsi.org>
Message-ID: <SUN.20.NOV.2011.172600.0500.BLEEMING@GMAIL.COM>

?Much?simas gracias, Valerio!

Si alguien quiere ver los referencias que mencion? Valerio, encontr? el
Nican Mopohua en Google Books aqui:
http://books.google.com/books?id=_nyaZYUGQ4sC&lpg=PA5&pg=PA66#v=onepage&q&f=false
.

Also, the Internet Archive (www.archive.org) has the 1885 edition of
Rinc?n's Arte here:
http://www.archive.org/details/artemexicana00rincrich&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8.

?Qu? maravilla el poema que anot? Rinc?n!  How I wish he had told us more
about its author!!

If anyone is interested in a trove of polynomials, see the extracts from
the "Sermones y santoral en mexicano" that Louise Burkhart references in
her monograph "Before Guadalupe." See pp. 50-51 for a representative
example.  So far the longest I have encountered is a whopping EIGHTEEN
syllables!  Has anyone seen longer?

Gracias, todos!

Ben


-- 
Ben Leeming
PhD Student
Department of Anthropology
University at Albany, SUNY
_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx  Mon Nov 21 15:32:09 2011
From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 09:32:09 -0600
Subject: Nahuatl Digest, Vol 237, Issue 4
In-Reply-To: <CAN_9ErWxK=P44W=WYJGg0ubrnaLBO-_+tJwCAHfOvGFCGLtVvw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <MON.21.NOV.2011.093209.0600.DCWRIGHT@PRODIGY.NET.MX>

Come on Ben, you know we're all dying to read the 18 syllable megaword. This
list would be a great place to register the longest known word in colonial
period Nahuatl texts, and to update the register if a record breaker shows
up.

-----Mensaje original-----
De: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org [mailto:nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org]
En nombre de Ben Leeming
Enviado el: domingo, 20 de noviembre de 2011 16:26
Para: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
Asunto: Re: [Nahuat-l] Nahuatl Digest, Vol 237, Issue 4

?Much?simas gracias, Valerio!

Si alguien quiere ver los referencias que mencion? Valerio, encontr? el
Nican Mopohua en Google Books aqui:
http://books.google.com/books?id=_nyaZYUGQ4sC&lpg=PA5&pg=PA66#v=onepage&q&f=
false
.

Also, the Internet Archive (www.archive.org) has the 1885 edition of
Rinc?n's Arte here:
http://www.archive.org/details/artemexicana00rincrich&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8.

?Qu? maravilla el poema que anot? Rinc?n!  How I wish he had told us more
about its author!!

If anyone is interested in a trove of polynomials, see the extracts from
the "Sermones y santoral en mexicano" that Louise Burkhart references in
her monograph "Before Guadalupe." See pp. 50-51 for a representative
example.  So far the longest I have encountered is a whopping EIGHTEEN
syllables!  Has anyone seen longer?

Gracias, todos!

Ben


-- 
Ben Leeming
PhD Student
Department of Anthropology
University at Albany, SUNY
_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl

_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From schwallr at potsdam.edu  Mon Nov 21 16:42:40 2011
From: schwallr at potsdam.edu (John F. Schwaller)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 11:42:40 -0500
Subject: Coanacoch
Message-ID: <MON.21.NOV.2011.114240.0500.SCHWALLR@POTSDAM.EDU>

As part of an on-going bit of study on Texcoco, I would like to figure out the 
underlying meaning of Coanacoch, the last tlahtoani, first gobernador.

Any suggestions?



-- 
*****************************
John F. Schwaller
President
SUNY - Potsdam
44 Pierrepont Ave.
Potsdam, NY  13676
Tel. 315-267-2100
FAX 315-267-2496

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From b.leeming at rivers.org  Mon Nov 21 17:08:04 2011
From: b.leeming at rivers.org (Leeming, Ben)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 12:08:04 -0500
Subject: Nahuatl Digest, Vol 237, Issue 4
In-Reply-To: <000301cca862$bba92e70$32fb8b50$@net.mx>
Message-ID: <MON.21.NOV.2011.120804.0500.B.LEEMING@RIVERS.ORG>

Ok, David, you're right!  Here it is:

mochipahualizichpochA?ucenaxochicelticayotzin  ("your pure and maidenly lily-flower freshness" - Burkhart trans.,  2001:56)

It comes from the "santoral en mexicano" (BNM 1476) that Louise Burkhart published part of in her "Berfore Guadalupe" monograph, so I won't take credit for digging up this "record breaker."  I WOULD however love to hear if anyone has a contender!


Ben

--
Ben Leeming
PhD student
Department of Anthropology
University at Albany
bleeming at gmail.com




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Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
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From campbel at indiana.edu  Mon Nov 21 17:54:58 2011
From: campbel at indiana.edu (Campbell, R. Joe)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 12:54:58 -0500
Subject: Coanacoch
In-Reply-To: <4ECA7F80.7030904@potsdam.edu>
Message-ID: <MON.21.NOV.2011.125458.0500.CAMPBEL@INDIANA.EDU>

Hey Fritz,

   Here's what I have on "nacochtli" 'earplug'.  Sorry to be so brief, 
but I'm just now walking out the door.

|8-)
Joe


*nacochtli ***

  acanacochtli (acanacochtli).  reed ear plug. <a:catl-nacochtli>. b.10
    f.11 p.178|

  amanacocheh (amanacocheh).  buffle-head; one who has a paper ear plug.
    <a:matl-nacochtli-eh1>. b.11 f.4 p.35|

  apozonalnacochtli (apozonalnacochtli).  amber ear plug. <a:tl1-pozo:ni-
    caus09-l1-nacochtli>. b.8 f.3 p.47|

  chalchiuhcoanacoch , i- (i-chalchiuhcoanacoch).  his green stone
    serpent-shaped earplug. <poss-cha:lchihuitl-co:a:tl-nacochtli>. b.12
    f.1 p.12|

  chalchiuhcoanacochtli (chalchiuhcoanacochtli).  green stone serpent
    earplug. <cha:lchihuitl-co:a:tl-nacochtli>. b.12 f.1 p.15|

  coanacoch , i- (i-coanacoch).  his serpent ear plug. <poss-co:a:tl-
    nacochtli>. b.12 f.3 p.52|

  coanacochtli (coanacochtli).  !name=coanacochtli. <!name=coanacochtli
    co:a:tl-nacochtli>. b.8 f.1 p.10|

  coanacochtzin (coanacochtzin).  !name=coanacochtzin.
    <!name=coanacochtzin co:a:tl-nacochtli-tzin +chtz>chtz>. b.8 f.1
    p.10|

  coanacochxihuitl , i- (i-coanacochxihuitl).  his serpent ear plug
    turquoise. <poss-co:a:tl-nacochtli-xihuitl1>. b.12 f.3 p.52|

  coanacotzin (coanacotzin).  !name=coanacotzin. <!name=coanacotzin
    co:a:tl-nacochtli-tzin>. b.12 f.8 p.123|

  cocoyolnacoch , in- (in-cocoyolnacoch).  their bell-shaped ear plug.
    <poss-dupl-coyolli-nacochtli>. b.2 f.5 p.99|

  cocoyolnacocheh (cocoyolnacocheh).  one who has bell-shaped ear plugs.
    <dupl-coyolli-nacochtli-eh1>. b.2 f.5 p.99|

  coyolnacoch , i- (i$coyolnacoch).  his turquoise ear plug. <poss-
    coyolli-nacochtli>. b.2 f.3 p.69|

  cuauhnacochtli (cuauhnacochtli).  wooden ear plug. <cuahuitl-
    nacochtli>. b.9 f.5 p.60|

  cuetlaxnacochihqueh (cuetlaxnacochihqueh).  those who have leather ear
    plugs. <cuetlaxtli-nacochtli-eh1-plur14 +ev.verb.21>. b.8 f.5 p.77|

  cuetlaxnacochtli (cuetlaxnacochtli).  leather ear plug. <cuetlaxtli-
    nacochtli>. b.8 f.5 p.74|

  huacuauhnacochtli (huacuauhnacochtli).  . <hua:qui--nacochtli>. b.10
    f.11 p.178|

  iitznacocheh (iitznacocheh).  one who has obsidian ear plugs. <dupl-
    i:tztli-nacochtli-eh1>. b.1 f.1 p.11|

  itznacochtli (itznacochtli).  obsidian ear plug. <i:tztli-nacochtli>.
    b.8 f.3 p.47|

  mayanacochtli (mayanacochtli).  ear plug made of black beetles.
    <mayatl-nacochtli>. b.10 f.11 p.178|

  nacoch , i- (i-nacoch).  his ear plug. <poss-nacochtli>. b.9 f.5
    p.60|

  nacoch , in- (in-nacoch).  their ear plug. <poss-nacochtli>. b.10 f.11
    p.177|

  nacoch , in- (in$nacoch).  their ear plug. <poss-nacochtli>. b.10 f.11
    p.178|

  nacoch , in- (in-nacoch).  their ear-ring. <poss-nacochtli>. b.11 f.22
    p.227|

  nacocheh (nacocheh).  ; one who has ear plugs. <nacochtli-eh1>. b.11
    f.26 p.275|

  nacochtia , mo- (mo-nacochtia).  he puts on ear plugs; they put on ear
    plugs. <p54-nacochtli-v04-caus08>. b.3 f.4 p.56|

  nacochtiaya , mo- (mo-nacochtiaya).  they wore ear plugs, they put on
    ear plugs. <p54-nacochtli-v04-caus08-ya3>. b.10 f.11 p.178|

  nacochtli (nacochtli).  orejeras; ear pendant; ear plug. <nacochtli>.
    71m1-162|

  nanacocheh (nanacocheh).  one who has ear plugs. <dupl-nacochtli-eh1>.
    b.1 f.1 p.11|

  quetzalcoyolnacochtli (quetzalcoyolnacochtli).  green ear pendant with
    bells; green shell-shaped ear pendant. <quetzalli-coyolli-
    nacochtli>. b.9 f.1 p.4|

  tecciznacochtli (tecciznacochtli).  seashell ear plug. <te:uctli-
    ciztli-nacochtli>. b.10 f.11 p.177|

  tecuitlacoyolnacoch , i- (i$tecuitlacoyolnacoch).  his golden shell
    earplugs. <poss-teo:tl?-cuitlatl-coyolli-nacochtli>. b.12 f.1 p.12|

  tehuilonacochtli (tehuilonacochtli).  crystal ear plug; rock crystal
    ear plug. <tehui:lo:tl-nacochtli>. b.9 f.6 p.80|

  teocuitlanacoch , i- (i-teocuitlanacoch).  her golden ear plug. <poss-
    teo:tl-cuitlatl-nacochtli>. b.2 f.4 p.91|

  teocuitlanacoch , i- (i$teocuitlanacoch).  his golden ear plug. <poss-
    teo:tl-cuitlatl-nacochtli>. b.9 f.5 p.69|

  teocuitlanacoch , i- (i-teocuitlanacoch).  her golden ear plug. <poss-
    teo:tl-cuitlatl-nacochtli>. b.9 f.6 p.79|

  teocuitlanacocheh (teocuitlanacocheh).  one who had golden ear plugs;
    having golden ear plugs. <teo:tl-cuitlatl-nacochtli-eh1>. b.1 f.1
    p.11|

  teocuitlanacochtli (teocuitlanacochtli).  golden ear plug; gold ear
    plug; gold earring; gold ear pendant. <teo:tl-cuitlatl-nacochtli>.
    b.2 f.4 p.91|

  tepoznacochtli (tepoznacochtli).  copper ear plug. <tepoztli-
    nacochtli>. b.9 f.2 p.18|

  teteocuitlanacoch , in- (in-teteocuitlanacoch).  their golden ear
    pendant. <poss-dupl-teo:tl-cuitlatl-nacochtli>. b.9 f.7 p.85|

  teteocuitlanacoch , i- (i-teteocuitlanacoch).  his golden ear plugs.
    <poss-dupl-teo:tl-cuitlatl-nacochtli>. b.12 f.6 p.92|

  tezcanacochtli (tezcanacochtli).  mirror-stone ear plug. <te:zcatl-
    nacochtli>. b.10 f.11 p.177|

  titizanacoch , i- (i$titizanacoch).  his chalk-colored ear pendant.
    <poss-dupl-ti:zatl-nacochtli>. b.9 f.6 p.84|

  tizanacoch , i- (i-tizanacoch).  his chalky ear plug. <poss-ti:zatl-
    nacochtli>. b.1 f.2 p.34|

  tolnacochtli (tolnacochtli).  a kind of plant. <to:lin-nacochtli
    +need:plant>. b.11 f.19 p.195|

  tzicoliuhcanacocheh (tzicoliuhcanacocheh).  one who has a curved ear
    pendant. <tzictli-v03b-caus06-l1-v03b-prt1-ca:5-nacochtli-eh1>. b.1
    f.1 p.9|

  xiuhcohuanacocheh (xiuhcohuanacocheh).  one who has a fire serpent
    disguise. <xihuitl1-co:a:tl-nacochtli-eh1>. b.1 f.2 p.30|

  xiuhnacoch , i[n]- (i[n]$xiuhnacoch).  their turquoise ear plug. <poss-
    xihuitl1-nacochtli>. b.8 f.3 p.43|

  xiuhnacocheh (xiuhnacocheh).  one who has turquoise ear plugs.
    <xihuitl1-nacochtli-eh1>. b.1 f.1 p.22|

  xiuhnacochtli (xiuhnacochtli).  ; turquoise ear plug; turquoise
    earplug. <xihuitl1-nacochtli>. b.2 f.10 p.164|

  xiuhtotonacocheh (xiuhtotonacocheh).  ear pendant made of lovely
    cotinga feathers. <xihuitl1-to:to:tl-nacochtli-eh1>. b.1 f.1 p.2|

  xixiuhnacochtia , mo- (mo-xixiuhnacochtia).  he puts on turquoise ear
    plugs. <p54-dupl-xihuitl1-nacochtli-v04-caus08>. b.3 f.4 p.56|

  zoquinacochtli (zoquinacochtli).  pottery ear plug. <zoquitl-
    nacochtli>. b.10 f.11 p.178|

morpheme count 103




Quoting "John F. Schwaller" <schwallr at potsdam.edu>:

>
> As part of an on-going bit of study on Texcoco, I would like to
> figure out the underlying meaning of Coanacoch, the last tlahtoani,
> first gobernador.
>
> Any suggestions?
>
>
>
> --
> *****************************
> John F. Schwaller
> President
> SUNY - Potsdam
> 44 Pierrepont Ave.
> Potsdam, NY  13676
> Tel. 315-267-2100
> FAX 315-267-2496
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>



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From ixtlil at earthlink.net  Mon Nov 21 19:49:37 2011
From: ixtlil at earthlink.net (ixtlil at earthlink.net)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 13:49:37 -0600
Subject: Coanacoch
In-Reply-To: <20111121125458.gmsi6ekk5cgg448o@webmail.iu.edu>
Message-ID: <MON.21.NOV.2011.134937.0600.>

This reading of earplug is in keeping with J.M.A. Aubin's reading from 1884 
(Memoire sur la peinture...).

See also Primeros Memoriales, 52v, where "Coanacochtli" has his ear 
obscured, but his glyph is a complete, live serpent threaded once through a 
human ear.  I don't have access to Sahagun's Florentine Codex at the moment, 
but he should appear in a position analogous to the Primeros Memoriales, 
although portrayed even more through a Tenochcan filter than even the 
Primeros Memoriales (from Tepeapulco).

On Mapa Tlotzin, his glyph appears to be a serpent emerging from a disk. 
Because this is a small detail, neither the illustrations in the re-edition 
of Aubin (UNAM 2002) nor Douglas (2010) allow for close inspection of his 
glyph in that document.  The disk from which the serpent is emerging is 
surrounded by a small red circle that may have a device to the left to 
indicate it is overall an earplug.  In my 19th century lithograph (which 
appears to come from Aubin's work), the same detail is seen and perhaps 
elaborated a bit--and elaborated correctly probably--in the entry for this 
person ("Coanacoc") in Garcia Granados (1952).

So, the two glyphs that come quickly to mind and are at hand match up 
reasonably well, which is not always the case with Nahua writing which can 
be very creative in glyph composition--as is shown by the Primeros 
Memoriales glyph being a live snake in a ear rather than a static depiction 
of  a serpent earplug.

Jerry Offner



-----Original Message----- 
From: Campbell, R. Joe
Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 11:54 AM
To: John F. Schwaller
Cc: Nahuat-l ((messages))
Subject: Re: [Nahuat-l] Coanacoch

Hey Fritz,

   Here's what I have on "nacochtli" 'earplug'.  Sorry to be so brief,
but I'm just now walking out the door.

|8-)
Joe


*nacochtli ***

  acanacochtli (acanacochtli).  reed ear plug. <a:catl-nacochtli>. b.10
    f.11 p.178|

  amanacocheh (amanacocheh).  buffle-head; one who has a paper ear plug.
    <a:matl-nacochtli-eh1>. b.11 f.4 p.35|

  apozonalnacochtli (apozonalnacochtli).  amber ear plug. <a:tl1-pozo:ni-
    caus09-l1-nacochtli>. b.8 f.3 p.47|

  chalchiuhcoanacoch , i- (i-chalchiuhcoanacoch).  his green stone
    serpent-shaped earplug. <poss-cha:lchihuitl-co:a:tl-nacochtli>. b.12
    f.1 p.12|

  chalchiuhcoanacochtli (chalchiuhcoanacochtli).  green stone serpent
    earplug. <cha:lchihuitl-co:a:tl-nacochtli>. b.12 f.1 p.15|

  coanacoch , i- (i-coanacoch).  his serpent ear plug. <poss-co:a:tl-
    nacochtli>. b.12 f.3 p.52|

  coanacochtli (coanacochtli).  !name=coanacochtli. <!name=coanacochtli
    co:a:tl-nacochtli>. b.8 f.1 p.10|

  coanacochtzin (coanacochtzin).  !name=coanacochtzin.
    <!name=coanacochtzin co:a:tl-nacochtli-tzin +chtz>chtz>. b.8 f.1
    p.10|

  coanacochxihuitl , i- (i-coanacochxihuitl).  his serpent ear plug
    turquoise. <poss-co:a:tl-nacochtli-xihuitl1>. b.12 f.3 p.52|

  coanacotzin (coanacotzin).  !name=coanacotzin. <!name=coanacotzin
    co:a:tl-nacochtli-tzin>. b.12 f.8 p.123|

  cocoyolnacoch , in- (in-cocoyolnacoch).  their bell-shaped ear plug.
    <poss-dupl-coyolli-nacochtli>. b.2 f.5 p.99|

  cocoyolnacocheh (cocoyolnacocheh).  one who has bell-shaped ear plugs.
    <dupl-coyolli-nacochtli-eh1>. b.2 f.5 p.99|

  coyolnacoch , i- (i$coyolnacoch).  his turquoise ear plug. <poss-
    coyolli-nacochtli>. b.2 f.3 p.69|

  cuauhnacochtli (cuauhnacochtli).  wooden ear plug. <cuahuitl-
    nacochtli>. b.9 f.5 p.60|

  cuetlaxnacochihqueh (cuetlaxnacochihqueh).  those who have leather ear
    plugs. <cuetlaxtli-nacochtli-eh1-plur14 +ev.verb.21>. b.8 f.5 p.77|

  cuetlaxnacochtli (cuetlaxnacochtli).  leather ear plug. <cuetlaxtli-
    nacochtli>. b.8 f.5 p.74|

  huacuauhnacochtli (huacuauhnacochtli).  . <hua:qui--nacochtli>. b.10
    f.11 p.178|

  iitznacocheh (iitznacocheh).  one who has obsidian ear plugs. <dupl-
    i:tztli-nacochtli-eh1>. b.1 f.1 p.11|

  itznacochtli (itznacochtli).  obsidian ear plug. <i:tztli-nacochtli>.
    b.8 f.3 p.47|

  mayanacochtli (mayanacochtli).  ear plug made of black beetles.
    <mayatl-nacochtli>. b.10 f.11 p.178|

  nacoch , i- (i-nacoch).  his ear plug. <poss-nacochtli>. b.9 f.5
    p.60|

  nacoch , in- (in-nacoch).  their ear plug. <poss-nacochtli>. b.10 f.11
    p.177|

  nacoch , in- (in$nacoch).  their ear plug. <poss-nacochtli>. b.10 f.11
    p.178|

  nacoch , in- (in-nacoch).  their ear-ring. <poss-nacochtli>. b.11 f.22
    p.227|

  nacocheh (nacocheh).  ; one who has ear plugs. <nacochtli-eh1>. b.11
    f.26 p.275|

  nacochtia , mo- (mo-nacochtia).  he puts on ear plugs; they put on ear
    plugs. <p54-nacochtli-v04-caus08>. b.3 f.4 p.56|

  nacochtiaya , mo- (mo-nacochtiaya).  they wore ear plugs, they put on
    ear plugs. <p54-nacochtli-v04-caus08-ya3>. b.10 f.11 p.178|

  nacochtli (nacochtli).  orejeras; ear pendant; ear plug. <nacochtli>.
    71m1-162|

  nanacocheh (nanacocheh).  one who has ear plugs. <dupl-nacochtli-eh1>.
    b.1 f.1 p.11|

  quetzalcoyolnacochtli (quetzalcoyolnacochtli).  green ear pendant with
    bells; green shell-shaped ear pendant. <quetzalli-coyolli-
    nacochtli>. b.9 f.1 p.4|

  tecciznacochtli (tecciznacochtli).  seashell ear plug. <te:uctli-
    ciztli-nacochtli>. b.10 f.11 p.177|

  tecuitlacoyolnacoch , i- (i$tecuitlacoyolnacoch).  his golden shell
    earplugs. <poss-teo:tl?-cuitlatl-coyolli-nacochtli>. b.12 f.1 p.12|

  tehuilonacochtli (tehuilonacochtli).  crystal ear plug; rock crystal
    ear plug. <tehui:lo:tl-nacochtli>. b.9 f.6 p.80|

  teocuitlanacoch , i- (i-teocuitlanacoch).  her golden ear plug. <poss-
    teo:tl-cuitlatl-nacochtli>. b.2 f.4 p.91|

  teocuitlanacoch , i- (i$teocuitlanacoch).  his golden ear plug. <poss-
    teo:tl-cuitlatl-nacochtli>. b.9 f.5 p.69|

  teocuitlanacoch , i- (i-teocuitlanacoch).  her golden ear plug. <poss-
    teo:tl-cuitlatl-nacochtli>. b.9 f.6 p.79|

  teocuitlanacocheh (teocuitlanacocheh).  one who had golden ear plugs;
    having golden ear plugs. <teo:tl-cuitlatl-nacochtli-eh1>. b.1 f.1
    p.11|

  teocuitlanacochtli (teocuitlanacochtli).  golden ear plug; gold ear
    plug; gold earring; gold ear pendant. <teo:tl-cuitlatl-nacochtli>.
    b.2 f.4 p.91|

  tepoznacochtli (tepoznacochtli).  copper ear plug. <tepoztli-
    nacochtli>. b.9 f.2 p.18|

  teteocuitlanacoch , in- (in-teteocuitlanacoch).  their golden ear
    pendant. <poss-dupl-teo:tl-cuitlatl-nacochtli>. b.9 f.7 p.85|

  teteocuitlanacoch , i- (i-teteocuitlanacoch).  his golden ear plugs.
    <poss-dupl-teo:tl-cuitlatl-nacochtli>. b.12 f.6 p.92|

  tezcanacochtli (tezcanacochtli).  mirror-stone ear plug. <te:zcatl-
    nacochtli>. b.10 f.11 p.177|

  titizanacoch , i- (i$titizanacoch).  his chalk-colored ear pendant.
    <poss-dupl-ti:zatl-nacochtli>. b.9 f.6 p.84|

  tizanacoch , i- (i-tizanacoch).  his chalky ear plug. <poss-ti:zatl-
    nacochtli>. b.1 f.2 p.34|

  tolnacochtli (tolnacochtli).  a kind of plant. <to:lin-nacochtli
    +need:plant>. b.11 f.19 p.195|

  tzicoliuhcanacocheh (tzicoliuhcanacocheh).  one who has a curved ear
    pendant. <tzictli-v03b-caus06-l1-v03b-prt1-ca:5-nacochtli-eh1>. b.1
    f.1 p.9|

  xiuhcohuanacocheh (xiuhcohuanacocheh).  one who has a fire serpent
    disguise. <xihuitl1-co:a:tl-nacochtli-eh1>. b.1 f.2 p.30|

  xiuhnacoch , i[n]- (i[n]$xiuhnacoch).  their turquoise ear plug. <poss-
    xihuitl1-nacochtli>. b.8 f.3 p.43|

  xiuhnacocheh (xiuhnacocheh).  one who has turquoise ear plugs.
    <xihuitl1-nacochtli-eh1>. b.1 f.1 p.22|

  xiuhnacochtli (xiuhnacochtli).  ; turquoise ear plug; turquoise
    earplug. <xihuitl1-nacochtli>. b.2 f.10 p.164|

  xiuhtotonacocheh (xiuhtotonacocheh).  ear pendant made of lovely
    cotinga feathers. <xihuitl1-to:to:tl-nacochtli-eh1>. b.1 f.1 p.2|

  xixiuhnacochtia , mo- (mo-xixiuhnacochtia).  he puts on turquoise ear
    plugs. <p54-dupl-xihuitl1-nacochtli-v04-caus08>. b.3 f.4 p.56|

  zoquinacochtli (zoquinacochtli).  pottery ear plug. <zoquitl-
    nacochtli>. b.10 f.11 p.178|

morpheme count 103




Quoting "John F. Schwaller" <schwallr at potsdam.edu>:

>
> As part of an on-going bit of study on Texcoco, I would like to
> figure out the underlying meaning of Coanacoch, the last tlahtoani,
> first gobernador.
>
> Any suggestions?
>
>
>
> --
> *****************************
> John F. Schwaller
> President
> SUNY - Potsdam
> 44 Pierrepont Ave.
> Potsdam, NY  13676
> Tel. 315-267-2100
> FAX 315-267-2496
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>



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From idiez at me.com  Tue Nov 22 15:37:21 2011
From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 09:37:21 -0600
Subject: tezcatlipoca
Message-ID: <TUE.22.NOV.2011.093721.0600.IDIEZ@ME.COM>

Listeros,
	How about some morphology for tezcatlipoca?
John
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From mmccaffe at indiana.edu  Tue Nov 22 15:40:39 2011
From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 10:40:39 -0500
Subject: tezcatlipoca
In-Reply-To: <D0C877DC-E5A4-4635-8283-466F15C236E3@me.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.22.NOV.2011.104039.0500.MMCCAFFE@INDIANA.EDU>

Quoting John Sullivan <idiez at me.com>:

> Listeros,
> 	How about some morphology for tezcatlipoca?
> John
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>

Xiquitta in archives. Onca cah.





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From micc2 at cox.net  Tue Nov 22 15:49:08 2011
From: micc2 at cox.net (Mario E. Aguilar)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 07:49:08 -0800
Subject: tezcatlipoca
In-Reply-To: <D0C877DC-E5A4-4635-8283-466F15C236E3@me.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.22.NOV.2011.074908.0800.MICC2@COX.NET>

I (think) somewhere I read it was tezcatl + i + poca(tl)  "the mirror, 
its smoke"  or "the smoke of the mirror" and not smoking mirror as it is 
usually translated....

I live for reasoned, enlightened spirituality:

"Tlacecelilli", tranquilidad, paz


Mario E. Aguilar, PhD

www.mexicayotl.net
www.aguila-blanca.com


On 11/22/2011 7:37 AM, John Sullivan wrote:
> Listeros,
> 	How about some morphology for tezcatlipoca?
> John
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>
>

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From idiez at me.com  Tue Nov 22 19:25:52 2011
From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 13:25:52 -0600
Subject: tezcatlipoca
In-Reply-To: <CAHcTdf3ceG+JMbs5P5T1HGGwM5BX0kNtjVG60hzX0-WaKWM07A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.22.NOV.2011.132552.0600.IDIEZ@ME.COM>

Piyali Tezo huan ne cequin listeros,
	Are there many intransitive/transitive pairs in -ca/-tza besides the reduplicatives?
John

On Nov 22, 2011, at 12:45 PM, Mr Tezozomoc wrote:

> Tezca-tl(i): Mirror
> *ihpoca: to burp
> Intransitive ihpoca is only attested in Tezcatlihpoca.  It's meaning is taken from what would be it's transitive pair, Ihpotza.
> The reason  why it's 1. it''s glyph, 2. ihpoca is similar to popoca: to smoke 3. a possible extened meaning burp/ belch/ puff
> 
> this analysis was given to me by Huitzilmazatzin.... 
> 
> Tezozomoc.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 7:37 AM, John Sullivan <idiez at me.com> wrote:
> Listeros,
>        How about some morphology for tezcatlipoca?
> John
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
> 

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From mmccaffe at indiana.edu  Tue Nov 22 21:55:12 2011
From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 16:55:12 -0500
Subject: tezcatlipoca
In-Reply-To: <AA277665-6570-4115-8FE2-BEB51423BF29@me.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.22.NOV.2011.165512.0500.MMCCAFFE@INDIANA.EDU>

John:

I looked through the archives and figured finally that it was 
"Teotihuacan" not "Tezcatlipoca" that was discussed. Sorry for the 
mistaken reference.

Tezozomoc's explanation is found in Karttunen's dictionary. I'm not 
entranced by it.

Here's what I think is happening with "Tezcatlipoca". (If Joe cringes, 
I will be able to feel it from afar.)

I think the name is Proto-Nahuatl. In other words, I think it's a very 
old name, and this evidenced by the noun form for "mirror," *te:zcatli, 
which would be an older form of te:zcatl.

The modern verb meaning 'smoke' is of course popo:ca, but it seems to 
me that that form is inherently an old reduplicated form, po- being the 
reduplicate suffix, and that at the Proto-Nahuatl level, there was 
probably a verb in the form *po:ca.

If this is correct, then the straight translation would be 'mirror-it 
smokes', which is pretty much what everyone has always said the name 
meant, 'smoking mirror'.


Michael




Quoting John Sullivan <idiez at me.com>:

> Piyali Tezo huan ne cequin listeros,
> 	Are there many intransitive/transitive pairs in -ca/-tza besides the
> reduplicatives?
> John
>
> On Nov 22, 2011, at 12:45 PM, Mr Tezozomoc wrote:
>
>> Tezca-tl(i): Mirror
>> *ihpoca: to burp
>> Intransitive ihpoca is only attested in Tezcatlihpoca.  It's meaning
>> is taken from what would be it's transitive pair, Ihpotza.
>> The reason  why it's 1. it''s glyph, 2. ihpoca is similar to popoca:
>> to smoke 3. a possible extened meaning burp/ belch/ puff
>>
>> this analysis was given to me by Huitzilmazatzin....
>>
>> Tezozomoc.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 7:37 AM, John Sullivan <idiez at me.com> wrote:
>> Listeros,
>>        How about some morphology for tezcatlipoca?
>> John
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nahuatl mailing list
>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>



_______________________________________________
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From budelberger.richard at wanadoo.fr  Wed Nov 23 22:54:26 2011
From: budelberger.richard at wanadoo.fr (Richard BUDELBERGER)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 23:54:26 +0100
Subject: tezcatlipoca
Message-ID: <WED.23.NOV.2011.235426.0100.BUDELBERGER.RICHARD@WANADOO.FR>

Dear Listeros,

Avez-vous lu Christian Duverger ? ? L'Origine des Azt?ques ?, Le Seuil, 1983 p. 193 ou 2003 p. 211, note 2. Une entorse au droit d'auteur... :

? http://books.google.com/books?hl=fr&id=JcYRAQAAIAAJ&q=%22bien+que+l%27usage%22+
? http://books.google.com/books?hl=fr&id=JcYRAQAAIAAJ&q=popocatezcatl
? http://books.google.com/books?hl=fr&id=JcYRAQAAIAAJ&q=tequi
? fum?e. Reste ? traduire la syllabe -tli qui ne peut appartenir au radical tezcatl, le -tl final tombant lorsqu'un substantif entre en combinaison. On peut probablement la lire comme ?quivalente de tle, de tletl, feu. D'une part nous avons plusieurs ?vidences de transcription tlitl pour ? feu ? ; d'autre part le dictionnaire de Molina conna?t le verbe tlepopoca ? tener gran calor o calentura ? (part II, p. 147 v?). Tezcatlipoca
? http://books.google.com/books?hl=fr&id=JcYRAQAAIAAJ&q=%22magique+et+parabolique%22

tletl/tlitl comme Tlatelolco/Tlatilolco ?



> Message du 22/11/11 23:15
> De : "Michael McCafferty" 
> A : nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> Copie ? : 
> Objet : Re: [Nahuat-l] tezcatlipoca
> 
> John:
> 
> I looked through the archives and figured finally that it was 
> "Teotihuacan" not "Tezcatlipoca" that was discussed. Sorry for the 
> mistaken reference.
> 
> Tezozomoc's explanation is found in Karttunen's dictionary. I'm not 
> entranced by it.
> 
> Here's what I think is happening with "Tezcatlipoca". (If Joe cringes, 
> I will be able to feel it from afar.)
> 
> I think the name is Proto-Nahuatl. In other words, I think it's a very 
> old name, and this evidenced by the noun form for "mirror," *te:zcatli, 
> which would be an older form of te:zcatl.
> 
> The modern verb meaning 'smoke' is of course popo:ca, but it seems to 
> me that that form is inherently an old reduplicated form, po- being the 
> reduplicate suffix, and that at the Proto-Nahuatl level, there was 
> probably a verb in the form *po:ca.
> 
> If this is correct, then the straight translation would be 'mirror-it 
> smokes', which is pretty much what everyone has always said the name 
> meant, 'smoking mirror'.
> 
> 
> Michael
> 
> Quoting John Sullivan :
> 
> > Piyali Tezo huan ne cequin listeros,
> > Are there many intransitive/transitive pairs in -ca/-tza besides the
> > reduplicatives?
> > John
> >
> > On Nov 22, 2011, at 12:45 PM, Mr Tezozomoc wrote:
> >
> >> Tezca-tl(i): Mirror
> >> *ihpoca: to burp
> >> Intransitive ihpoca is only attested in Tezcatlihpoca. It's meaning
> >> is taken from what would be it's transitive pair, Ihpotza.
> >> The reason why it's 1. it''s glyph, 2. ihpoca is similar to popoca:
> >> to smoke 3. a possible extened meaning burp/ belch/ puff
> >>
> >> this analysis was given to me by Huitzilmazatzin....
> >>
> >> Tezozomoc.
> >>
> >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 7:37 AM, John Sullivan wrote:
> >> Listeros,
> >> How about some morphology for tezcatlipoca?
> >> John
_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl

From mmccaffe at indiana.edu  Thu Nov 24 03:20:41 2011
From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 22:20:41 -0500
Subject: tezcatlipoca
In-Reply-To: <17264959.62615.1322088866394.JavaMail.www@wwinf1d02>
Message-ID: <WED.23.NOV.2011.222041.0500.MMCCAFFE@INDIANA.EDU>

En meme temps, Richard, il y a un probleme, c'est de lier *tezcatle- a` 
un verbe, c.a.d. -poca. En vrai, cette espece de liaison ne se fait pas 
en nahuatl. C'est impossible, point de vue grammaire. Donc, Duverger ne 
peut pas avoir raison.

Michael


Quoting Richard BUDELBERGER <budelberger.richard at wanadoo.fr>:

> Dear Listeros,
>
> Avez-vous lu Christian Duverger ? ? L'Origine des Azt?ques ?, Le
> Seuil, 1983 p. 193 ou 2003 p. 211, note 2. Une entorse au droit
> d'auteur... :
>
> ?
> http://books.google.com/books?hl=fr&id=JcYRAQAAIAAJ&q=%22bien+que+l%27usage%22+
> ? http://books.google.com/books?hl=fr&id=JcYRAQAAIAAJ&q=popocatezcatl
> ? http://books.google.com/books?hl=fr&id=JcYRAQAAIAAJ&q=tequi
> ? fum?e. Reste ? traduire la syllabe -tli qui ne peut appartenir au
> radical tezcatl, le -tl final tombant lorsqu'un substantif entre en
> combinaison. On peut probablement la lire comme ?quivalente de tle,
> de tletl, feu. D'une part nous avons plusieurs ?vidences de
> transcription tlitl pour ? feu ? ; d'autre part le dictionnaire de
> Molina conna?t le verbe tlepopoca ? tener gran calor o calentura ?
> (part II, p. 147 v?). Tezcatlipoca
> ?
> http://books.google.com/books?hl=fr&id=JcYRAQAAIAAJ&q=%22magique+et+parabolique%22
>
> tletl/tlitl comme Tlatelolco/Tlatilolco ?
>
>
>
>> Message du 22/11/11 23:15
>> De : "Michael McCafferty"
>> A : nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>> Copie ? :
>> Objet : Re: [Nahuat-l] tezcatlipoca
>>
>> John:
>>
>> I looked through the archives and figured finally that it was
>> "Teotihuacan" not "Tezcatlipoca" that was discussed. Sorry for the
>> mistaken reference.
>>
>> Tezozomoc's explanation is found in Karttunen's dictionary. I'm not
>> entranced by it.
>>
>> Here's what I think is happening with "Tezcatlipoca". (If Joe cringes,
>> I will be able to feel it from afar.)
>>
>> I think the name is Proto-Nahuatl. In other words, I think it's a very
>> old name, and this evidenced by the noun form for "mirror," *te:zcatli,
>> which would be an older form of te:zcatl.
>>
>> The modern verb meaning 'smoke' is of course popo:ca, but it seems to
>> me that that form is inherently an old reduplicated form, po- being the
>> reduplicate suffix, and that at the Proto-Nahuatl level, there was
>> probably a verb in the form *po:ca.
>>
>> If this is correct, then the straight translation would be 'mirror-it
>> smokes', which is pretty much what everyone has always said the name
>> meant, 'smoking mirror'.
>>
>>
>> Michael
>>
>> Quoting John Sullivan :
>>
>> > Piyali Tezo huan ne cequin listeros,
>> > Are there many intransitive/transitive pairs in -ca/-tza besides the
>> > reduplicatives?
>> > John
>> >
>> > On Nov 22, 2011, at 12:45 PM, Mr Tezozomoc wrote:
>> >
>> >> Tezca-tl(i): Mirror
>> >> *ihpoca: to burp
>> >> Intransitive ihpoca is only attested in Tezcatlihpoca. It's meaning
>> >> is taken from what would be it's transitive pair, Ihpotza.
>> >> The reason why it's 1. it''s glyph, 2. ihpoca is similar to popoca:
>> >> to smoke 3. a possible extened meaning burp/ belch/ puff
>> >>
>> >> this analysis was given to me by Huitzilmazatzin....
>> >>
>> >> Tezozomoc.
>> >>
>> >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 7:37 AM, John Sullivan wrote:
>> >> Listeros,
>> >> How about some morphology for tezcatlipoca?
>> >> John
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>



_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From mmccaffe at indiana.edu  Fri Nov 25 05:31:50 2011
From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 00:31:50 -0500
Subject: tezcatlipoca
In-Reply-To: <17264959.62615.1322088866394.JavaMail.www@wwinf1d02>
Message-ID: <FRI.25.NOV.2011.003150.0500.MMCCAFFE@INDIANA.EDU>

Richard,

Je crois ce que dit Duverger marcherait, pourvu que *po:ca ait existe a 
cote de popo:ca. Si l'hypothese de Duverger soit correcte, 
*te:zcatlepo:ca ressemblerait grammaticalement a cua:uhtemo:c, et 
signifierait << il fume comme un miroir de pierre >>

Bien a vous,

Michael


[I believe what Duverger is saying would work, so long as *po:ca 
existed alongside popo:ca. If Duverger's supposition is correct, 
*te:zcatlepo:ca would resemble cua:uhtemo:c grammatically, and would 
mean "he smokes like a stone mirror".}




Quoting Richard BUDELBERGER <budelberger.richard at wanadoo.fr>:

> Dear Listeros,
>
> Avez-vous lu Christian Duverger ? ? L'Origine des Azt?ques ?, Le
> Seuil, 1983 p. 193 ou 2003 p. 211, note 2. Une entorse au droit
> d'auteur... :
>
> ?
> http://books.google.com/books?hl=fr&id=JcYRAQAAIAAJ&q=%22bien+que+l%27usage%22+
> ? http://books.google.com/books?hl=fr&id=JcYRAQAAIAAJ&q=popocatezcatl
> ? http://books.google.com/books?hl=fr&id=JcYRAQAAIAAJ&q=tequi
> ? fum?e. Reste ? traduire la syllabe -tli qui ne peut appartenir au
> radical tezcatl, le -tl final tombant lorsqu'un substantif entre en
> combinaison. On peut probablement la lire comme ?quivalente de tle,
> de tletl, feu. D'une part nous avons plusieurs ?vidences de
> transcription tlitl pour ? feu ? ; d'autre part le dictionnaire de
> Molina conna?t le verbe tlepopoca ? tener gran calor o calentura ?
> (part II, p. 147 v?). Tezcatlipoca
> ?
> http://books.google.com/books?hl=fr&id=JcYRAQAAIAAJ&q=%22magique+et+parabolique%22
>
> tletl/tlitl comme Tlatelolco/Tlatilolco ?
>
>
>
>> Message du 22/11/11 23:15
>> De : "Michael McCafferty"
>> A : nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>> Copie ? :
>> Objet : Re: [Nahuat-l] tezcatlipoca
>>
>> John:
>>
>> I looked through the archives and figured finally that it was
>> "Teotihuacan" not "Tezcatlipoca" that was discussed. Sorry for the
>> mistaken reference.
>>
>> Tezozomoc's explanation is found in Karttunen's dictionary. I'm not
>> entranced by it.
>>
>> Here's what I think is happening with "Tezcatlipoca". (If Joe cringes,
>> I will be able to feel it from afar.)
>>
>> I think the name is Proto-Nahuatl. In other words, I think it's a very
>> old name, and this evidenced by the noun form for "mirror," *te:zcatli,
>> which would be an older form of te:zcatl.
>>
>> The modern verb meaning 'smoke' is of course popo:ca, but it seems to
>> me that that form is inherently an old reduplicated form, po- being the
>> reduplicate suffix, and that at the Proto-Nahuatl level, there was
>> probably a verb in the form *po:ca.
>>
>> If this is correct, then the straight translation would be 'mirror-it
>> smokes', which is pretty much what everyone has always said the name
>> meant, 'smoking mirror'.
>>
>>
>> Michael
>>
>> Quoting John Sullivan :
>>
>> > Piyali Tezo huan ne cequin listeros,
>> > Are there many intransitive/transitive pairs in -ca/-tza besides the
>> > reduplicatives?
>> > John
>> >
>> > On Nov 22, 2011, at 12:45 PM, Mr Tezozomoc wrote:
>> >
>> >> Tezca-tl(i): Mirror
>> >> *ihpoca: to burp
>> >> Intransitive ihpoca is only attested in Tezcatlihpoca. It's meaning
>> >> is taken from what would be it's transitive pair, Ihpotza.
>> >> The reason why it's 1. it''s glyph, 2. ihpoca is similar to popoca:
>> >> to smoke 3. a possible extened meaning burp/ belch/ puff
>> >>
>> >> this analysis was given to me by Huitzilmazatzin....
>> >>
>> >> Tezozomoc.
>> >>
>> >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 7:37 AM, John Sullivan wrote:
>> >> Listeros,
>> >> How about some morphology for tezcatlipoca?
>> >> John
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>



_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From t_amaya at megared.net.mx  Sat Nov 26 16:52:51 2011
From: t_amaya at megared.net.mx (Tomas Amando Amaya Aquino)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 10:52:51 -0600
Subject: tezcatlipoca
In-Reply-To: <20111123222041.dron32u40sw0sgcw@webmail.iu.edu>
Message-ID: <SAT.26.NOV.2011.105251.0600.TAMAYA@MEGARED.NET.MX>

Hola listeros.
Siempre es para m? un placer escribirles unas l?neas a Uds. tan interesados
en el mexicano.

Ya lo he dicho en este foro varias ocasiones. En nahuatl uno puede hacer
construcciones del tipo "ahmo yn niquixmati inon *tlacatl hueca chanti*,
axa ceppa, oppa yn oniquitztoc"; traducci?n: no conozco a ese hombre que
vive lejos de aqu?, tal vez lo he visto una o dos veces. Otro ejemplo:
?n nic-ch?a in *tepoztli nehnemini* huan amo yn neci. Trad.: estoy
esperando el fierro que camina (el tren) y sucede que no aparece.
Es decir, si ponemos un sustantivo seguido de una forma verbal, ?sta se
convierte m?s en bien en una adjetivaci?n, con lo que el siginificado del
conjunto es una forma subordinada que se puede  traducir con un relativo
que o quien.
Lo mismo ocurre con tezcatlipoca. Son dos palabras tezcatli = espejo,
vidrio, objeto que brilla y refleja; poca = verbal de humear (sin?nimo
de popoca).
Por tanto la traducci?n es simplemente "espejo que humea". Y as? lo
entienden los hablantes de Cuetzalan que poseen buen dominio del idioma.

Por otra parte, es dif?cil que la i de enmedio sea una part?cula marcadora
de posesivo pues entoces se modificar?a poctli, humo, quedando as?: tezcatl
ipoc:
el humo del espejo, considerando espejo como personalizado. Mejor podr?amos
decir tezcahpoctli: humo de espejo, humo a manera de espejo o que espejea.

En lo que se refiere a  'mirror-it smokes', why not in German? Der Spiegel,
der raucht (el espejo, ?l humea; the mirror, this/that is smoking)
pronunciando el segundo "der" con una entonaci?n y d?ndole valor de
demostrativo. Pero si  lo relativizamos funciona asi: Der Spiegel, der
raucht, ist verschwunden (The mirror that smokes has disappeared / the
smoking mirror has disappeared; nahuatl: in *tezcatl poca*  ahmo yn neci;
espa?ol: el espejo que humea ha desaparecido). Entonces el
mirror-it-smokes, pues digamos que viene a ser en nahuatl tezcatli-poca
(nahuat de Cuetzalan: tezcati-poca), lo que -como ya dije arriba- a los
oidos de los nahuat-hablantes suena a "espejo que humea". Cuidado, no
confundir con "tezcauhpoca", por ejemplo en la expresi?n "tezcauhpoca yn
tepetl", pues esto significa:el cerro humea a manera de espejo vel. el
cerro humea emitiendo reflejos; donde tezcauh, forma primaria de tezcatl(i)
funciona como adverbio.

Observaci?n 1: ?por qu? digo tezcatli en lugar de tezcatl? Porque son
equivalentes. Hay muchos ejemplos tanto en los escritos de los siglos
posteriores a la conquista como en variantes actuales del nahuatl, v.g.
petlatl vs. petahtli; coyotl vs. coyohtli; yolotl vs. yolohtili; xohitl vs.
xochitli, m?s un largo etc?tera.

Observaci?n 2: Ejemplos de construciones sustantivo + verbo:
a) *inin zazanili ipampatzinco ce cihuatzintli omotocayotitzinohuaya Pofiria
* (Fernando Horcasitas y Sarah O. de Ford, "Los cuentos en Nahuatl de Do?a
Luz Jimenez", UNAM, 1979. Pag. 48. Traducci?n del mismo autor "Este cuento
trata de una mujer que se llamaba Porfiria"
b) *Azo iquion quimotlapopolhuiliz toteco i**dios ompan ilhuicac
metztoc *(ibid.).
Traducci?n del autor: "A ver si as? la perdona Nuestro Se?or su Dios que
est? en el cielo. Traducci?n m?a: Tal vez as? la perdone nuestro se?or Dios
que est? en el cielo. Donde la ? de Dios la tomo como un in, antecedente
para la relativa "dios que est? en el cielo"
c) *"Tla xihuallauh Tenuch?, yzca yn iyollo tlaciuhqui Copil
onicmicti.*Traducci?n de Rafael Tena: "Tenoch, he aqu? el coraz?n del
adivino Copil, a
quien sacrifiqu?"; mi traducci?n: Ac?rcate por favor Tenoch, este es el
coraz?n del brujo (para m? taixcui') Copil a quien he quitado la vida.
(Domingo Chimalpah?n. Las ocho relaciones y el memorial de Colhuacan.
Paleografia y traducci?n de Rafael Tena. Cien de M?xico. CONACULTA. Mex.
1998. Pag. 160; Memorial de Colhuacan, a?o 1281)
d) *Auh yn ichpoch quihualhuicaca Copil yn itoca Xicomoyahualtzin niman
conan quimocihuahuati yehuatl in Cuauhtlequetzqui.* Traducci?n de Tena: A
la hija que tra?a consigo Copil, llamada Xicomoyahualtzin la tom? por mujer
Cuauhtlequetzqui. (Ibid.)

Mahxiyolpaquican tocnihuan?

Tomas Amaya









2011/11/23 Michael McCafferty <mmccaffe at indiana.edu>

> En meme temps, Richard, il y a un probleme, c'est de lier *tezcatle- a` un
> verbe, c.a.d. -poca. En vrai, cette espece de liaison ne se fait pas en
> nahuatl. C'est impossible, point de vue grammaire. Donc, Duverger ne peut
> pas avoir raison.
>
> Michael
>
>
> Quoting Richard BUDELBERGER <budelberger.richard at wanadoo.**fr<budelberger.richard at wanadoo.fr>
> >:
>
>  Dear Listeros,
>>
>> Avez-vous lu Christian Duverger ? ? L'Origine des Azt?ques ?, Le
>> Seuil, 1983 p. 193 ou 2003 p. 211, note 2. Une entorse au droit
>> d'auteur... :
>>
>> ?
>>
>> http://books.google.com/books?**hl=fr&id=JcYRAQAAIAAJ&q=%**
>> 22bien+que+l%27usage%22+<http://books.google.com/books?hl=fr&id=JcYRAQAAIAAJ&q=%22bien+que+l%27usage%22+>
>> ? http://books.google.com/books?**hl=fr&id=JcYRAQAAIAAJ&q=**popocatezcatl<http://books.google.com/books?hl=fr&id=JcYRAQAAIAAJ&q=popocatezcatl>
>> ? http://books.google.com/books?**hl=fr&id=JcYRAQAAIAAJ&q=tequi<http://books.google.com/books?hl=fr&id=JcYRAQAAIAAJ&q=tequi>
>> ? fum?e. Reste ? traduire la syllabe -tli qui ne peut appartenir au
>> radical tezcatl, le -tl final tombant lorsqu'un substantif entre en
>> combinaison. On peut probablement la lire comme ?quivalente de tle,
>> de tletl, feu. D'une part nous avons plusieurs ?vidences de
>> transcription tlitl pour ? feu ? ; d'autre part le dictionnaire de
>> Molina conna?t le verbe tlepopoca ? tener gran calor o calentura ?
>> (part II, p. 147 v?). Tezcatlipoca
>> ?
>>
>> http://books.google.com/books?**hl=fr&id=JcYRAQAAIAAJ&q=%**
>> 22magique+et+parabolique%22<http://books.google.com/books?hl=fr&id=JcYRAQAAIAAJ&q=%22magique+et+parabolique%22>
>>
>> tletl/tlitl comme Tlatelolco/Tlatilolco ?
>>
>>
>>
>> Message du 22/11/11 23:15
>>> De : "Michael McCafferty"
>>> A : nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>>> Copie ? :
>>> Objet : Re: [Nahuat-l] tezcatlipoca
>>>
>>> John:
>>>
>>> I looked through the archives and figured finally that it was
>>> "Teotihuacan" not "Tezcatlipoca" that was discussed. Sorry for the
>>> mistaken reference.
>>>
>>> Tezozomoc's explanation is found in Karttunen's dictionary. I'm not
>>> entranced by it.
>>>
>>> Here's what I think is happening with "Tezcatlipoca". (If Joe cringes,
>>> I will be able to feel it from afar.)
>>>
>>> I think the name is Proto-Nahuatl. In other words, I think it's a very
>>> old name, and this evidenced by the noun form for "mirror," *te:zcatli,
>>> which would be an older form of te:zcatl.
>>>
>>> The modern verb meaning 'smoke' is of course popo:ca, but it seems to
>>> me that that form is inherently an old reduplicated form, po- being the
>>> reduplicate suffix, and that at the Proto-Nahuatl level, there was
>>> probably a verb in the form *po:ca.
>>>
>>> If this is correct, then the straight translation would be 'mirror-it
>>> smokes', which is pretty much what everyone has always said the name
>>> meant, 'smoking mirror'.
>>>
>>>
>>> Michael
>>>
>>> Quoting John Sullivan :
>>>
>>> > Piyali Tezo huan ne cequin listeros,
>>> > Are there many intransitive/transitive pairs in -ca/-tza besides the
>>> > reduplicatives?
>>> > John
>>> >
>>> > On Nov 22, 2011, at 12:45 PM, Mr Tezozomoc wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> Tezca-tl(i): Mirror
>>> >> *ihpoca: to burp
>>> >> Intransitive ihpoca is only attested in Tezcatlihpoca. It's meaning
>>> >> is taken from what would be it's transitive pair, Ihpotza.
>>> >> The reason why it's 1. it''s glyph, 2. ihpoca is similar to popoca:
>>> >> to smoke 3. a possible extened meaning burp/ belch/ puff
>>> >>
>>> >> this analysis was given to me by Huitzilmazatzin....
>>> >>
>>> >> Tezozomoc.
>>> >>
>>> >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 7:37 AM, John Sullivan wrote:
>>> >> Listeros,
>>> >> How about some morphology for tezcatlipoca?
>>> >> John
>>>
>> ______________________________**_________________
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>>
>>
>
>
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>
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From mmccaffe at indiana.edu  Sat Nov 26 18:49:52 2011
From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 13:49:52 -0500
Subject: tezcatlipoca
In-Reply-To: <CAEWzdwAcVwAJhGxSfbECfDrONERzuTvZx+giqwRw900qWuYV3Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SAT.26.NOV.2011.134952.0500.MMCCAFFE@INDIANA.EDU>

As I explained earlier in the week, Tomas, "tezcatli (po)poca" is 
indeed a good analysis of this name. Estoy de acuerdo.

At the same time, Duverger's suggestion that the etymology of the name 
is "tezcatl + tlitl/tletl + (po) poca" --> tezcatlipoca also is a 
grammatical analysis.

Personally, I prefer the first, but the second works grammatically just 
as in the expression name 'Cuauhtemoc'.

Best,

Michael


Quoting Tomas Amando Amaya Aquino <t_amaya at megared.net.mx>:

> Hola listeros.
> Siempre es para m? un placer escribirles unas l?neas a Uds. tan interesados
> en el mexicano.
>
> Ya lo he dicho en este foro varias ocasiones. En nahuatl uno puede hacer
> construcciones del tipo "ahmo yn niquixmati inon *tlacatl hueca chanti*,
> axa ceppa, oppa yn oniquitztoc"; traducci?n: no conozco a ese hombre que
> vive lejos de aqu?, tal vez lo he visto una o dos veces. Otro ejemplo:
> ?n nic-ch?a in *tepoztli nehnemini* huan amo yn neci. Trad.: estoy
> esperando el fierro que camina (el tren) y sucede que no aparece.
> Es decir, si ponemos un sustantivo seguido de una forma verbal, ?sta se
> convierte m?s en bien en una adjetivaci?n, con lo que el siginificado del
> conjunto es una forma subordinada que se puede  traducir con un relativo
> que o quien.
> Lo mismo ocurre con tezcatlipoca. Son dos palabras tezcatli = espejo,
> vidrio, objeto que brilla y refleja; poca = verbal de humear (sin?nimo
> de popoca).
> Por tanto la traducci?n es simplemente "espejo que humea". Y as? lo
> entienden los hablantes de Cuetzalan que poseen buen dominio del idioma.
>
> Por otra parte, es dif?cil que la i de enmedio sea una part?cula marcadora
> de posesivo pues entoces se modificar?a poctli, humo, quedando as?: tezcatl
> ipoc:
> el humo del espejo, considerando espejo como personalizado. Mejor podr?amos
> decir tezcahpoctli: humo de espejo, humo a manera de espejo o que espejea.
>
> En lo que se refiere a  'mirror-it smokes', why not in German? Der Spiegel,
> der raucht (el espejo, ?l humea; the mirror, this/that is smoking)
> pronunciando el segundo "der" con una entonaci?n y d?ndole valor de
> demostrativo. Pero si  lo relativizamos funciona asi: Der Spiegel, der
> raucht, ist verschwunden (The mirror that smokes has disappeared / the
> smoking mirror has disappeared; nahuatl: in *tezcatl poca*  ahmo yn neci;
> espa?ol: el espejo que humea ha desaparecido). Entonces el
> mirror-it-smokes, pues digamos que viene a ser en nahuatl tezcatli-poca
> (nahuat de Cuetzalan: tezcati-poca), lo que -como ya dije arriba- a los
> oidos de los nahuat-hablantes suena a "espejo que humea". Cuidado, no
> confundir con "tezcauhpoca", por ejemplo en la expresi?n "tezcauhpoca yn
> tepetl", pues esto significa:el cerro humea a manera de espejo vel. el
> cerro humea emitiendo reflejos; donde tezcauh, forma primaria de tezcatl(i)
> funciona como adverbio.
>
> Observaci?n 1: ?por qu? digo tezcatli en lugar de tezcatl? Porque son
> equivalentes. Hay muchos ejemplos tanto en los escritos de los siglos
> posteriores a la conquista como en variantes actuales del nahuatl, v.g.
> petlatl vs. petahtli; coyotl vs. coyohtli; yolotl vs. yolohtili; xohitl vs.
> xochitli, m?s un largo etc?tera.
>
> Observaci?n 2: Ejemplos de construciones sustantivo + verbo:
> a) *inin zazanili ipampatzinco ce cihuatzintli omotocayotitzinohuaya Pofiria
> * (Fernando Horcasitas y Sarah O. de Ford, "Los cuentos en Nahuatl de Do?a
> Luz Jimenez", UNAM, 1979. Pag. 48. Traducci?n del mismo autor "Este cuento
> trata de una mujer que se llamaba Porfiria"
> b) *Azo iquion quimotlapopolhuiliz toteco i**dios ompan ilhuicac
> metztoc *(ibid.).
> Traducci?n del autor: "A ver si as? la perdona Nuestro Se?or su Dios que
> est? en el cielo. Traducci?n m?a: Tal vez as? la perdone nuestro se?or Dios
> que est? en el cielo. Donde la ? de Dios la tomo como un in, antecedente
> para la relativa "dios que est? en el cielo"
> c) *"Tla xihuallauh Tenuch?, yzca yn iyollo tlaciuhqui Copil
> onicmicti.*Traducci?n de Rafael Tena: "Tenoch, he aqu? el coraz?n del
> adivino Copil, a
> quien sacrifiqu?"; mi traducci?n: Ac?rcate por favor Tenoch, este es el
> coraz?n del brujo (para m? taixcui') Copil a quien he quitado la vida.
> (Domingo Chimalpah?n. Las ocho relaciones y el memorial de Colhuacan.
> Paleografia y traducci?n de Rafael Tena. Cien de M?xico. CONACULTA. Mex.
> 1998. Pag. 160; Memorial de Colhuacan, a?o 1281)
> d) *Auh yn ichpoch quihualhuicaca Copil yn itoca Xicomoyahualtzin niman
> conan quimocihuahuati yehuatl in Cuauhtlequetzqui.* Traducci?n de Tena: A
> la hija que tra?a consigo Copil, llamada Xicomoyahualtzin la tom? por mujer
> Cuauhtlequetzqui. (Ibid.)
>
> Mahxiyolpaquican tocnihuan?
>
> Tomas Amaya
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 2011/11/23 Michael McCafferty <mmccaffe at indiana.edu>
>
>> En meme temps, Richard, il y a un probleme, c'est de lier *tezcatle- a` un
>> verbe, c.a.d. -poca. En vrai, cette espece de liaison ne se fait pas en
>> nahuatl. C'est impossible, point de vue grammaire. Donc, Duverger ne peut
>> pas avoir raison.
>>
>> Michael
>>
>>
>> Quoting Richard BUDELBERGER
>> <budelberger.richard at wanadoo.**fr<budelberger.richard at wanadoo.fr>
>> >:
>>
>>  Dear Listeros,
>>>
>>> Avez-vous lu Christian Duverger ? ? L'Origine des Azt?ques ?, Le
>>> Seuil, 1983 p. 193 ou 2003 p. 211, note 2. Une entorse au droit
>>> d'auteur... :
>>>
>>> ?
>>>
>>> http://books.google.com/books?**hl=fr&id=JcYRAQAAIAAJ&q=%**
>>> 22bien+que+l%27usage%22+<http://books.google.com/books?hl=fr&id=JcYRAQAAIAAJ&q=%22bien+que+l%27usage%22+>
>>> ?
>>> http://books.google.com/books?**hl=fr&id=JcYRAQAAIAAJ&q=**popocatezcatl<http://books.google.com/books?hl=fr&id=JcYRAQAAIAAJ&q=popocatezcatl>
>>> ?
>>> http://books.google.com/books?**hl=fr&id=JcYRAQAAIAAJ&q=tequi<http://books.google.com/books?hl=fr&id=JcYRAQAAIAAJ&q=tequi>
>>> ? fum?e. Reste ? traduire la syllabe -tli qui ne peut appartenir au
>>> radical tezcatl, le -tl final tombant lorsqu'un substantif entre en
>>> combinaison. On peut probablement la lire comme ?quivalente de tle,
>>> de tletl, feu. D'une part nous avons plusieurs ?vidences de
>>> transcription tlitl pour ? feu ? ; d'autre part le dictionnaire de
>>> Molina conna?t le verbe tlepopoca ? tener gran calor o calentura ?
>>> (part II, p. 147 v?). Tezcatlipoca
>>> ?
>>>
>>> http://books.google.com/books?**hl=fr&id=JcYRAQAAIAAJ&q=%**
>>> 22magique+et+parabolique%22<http://books.google.com/books?hl=fr&id=JcYRAQAAIAAJ&q=%22magique+et+parabolique%22>
>>>
>>> tletl/tlitl comme Tlatelolco/Tlatilolco ?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Message du 22/11/11 23:15
>>>> De : "Michael McCafferty"
>>>> A : nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>>>> Copie ? :
>>>> Objet : Re: [Nahuat-l] tezcatlipoca
>>>>
>>>> John:
>>>>
>>>> I looked through the archives and figured finally that it was
>>>> "Teotihuacan" not "Tezcatlipoca" that was discussed. Sorry for the
>>>> mistaken reference.
>>>>
>>>> Tezozomoc's explanation is found in Karttunen's dictionary. I'm not
>>>> entranced by it.
>>>>
>>>> Here's what I think is happening with "Tezcatlipoca". (If Joe cringes,
>>>> I will be able to feel it from afar.)
>>>>
>>>> I think the name is Proto-Nahuatl. In other words, I think it's a very
>>>> old name, and this evidenced by the noun form for "mirror," *te:zcatli,
>>>> which would be an older form of te:zcatl.
>>>>
>>>> The modern verb meaning 'smoke' is of course popo:ca, but it seems to
>>>> me that that form is inherently an old reduplicated form, po- being the
>>>> reduplicate suffix, and that at the Proto-Nahuatl level, there was
>>>> probably a verb in the form *po:ca.
>>>>
>>>> If this is correct, then the straight translation would be 'mirror-it
>>>> smokes', which is pretty much what everyone has always said the name
>>>> meant, 'smoking mirror'.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Michael
>>>>
>>>> Quoting John Sullivan :
>>>>
>>>> > Piyali Tezo huan ne cequin listeros,
>>>> > Are there many intransitive/transitive pairs in -ca/-tza besides the
>>>> > reduplicatives?
>>>> > John
>>>> >
>>>> > On Nov 22, 2011, at 12:45 PM, Mr Tezozomoc wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> Tezca-tl(i): Mirror
>>>> >> *ihpoca: to burp
>>>> >> Intransitive ihpoca is only attested in Tezcatlihpoca. It's meaning
>>>> >> is taken from what would be it's transitive pair, Ihpotza.
>>>> >> The reason why it's 1. it''s glyph, 2. ihpoca is similar to popoca:
>>>> >> to smoke 3. a possible extened meaning burp/ belch/ puff
>>>> >>
>>>> >> this analysis was given to me by Huitzilmazatzin....
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Tezozomoc.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 7:37 AM, John Sullivan wrote:
>>>> >> Listeros,
>>>> >> How about some morphology for tezcatlipoca?
>>>> >> John
>>>>
>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>> Nahuatl mailing list
>>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/**listinfo/nahuatl<http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________**_________________
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>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/**listinfo/nahuatl<http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl>
>>
>



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From stewart.felker at gmail.com  Sun Nov 27 19:14:52 2011
From: stewart.felker at gmail.com (Stewart Felker)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 13:14:52 -0600
Subject: Anomalies/enigmas of the plant "toloatzin" (and a deity "Tolo")?
Message-ID: <SUN.27.NOV.2011.131452.0600.STEWART.FELKER@GMAIL.COM>

Greetings! New member here; and while I'm really glad to have found this
list, I'm still quite an amateur in Mesoamerican studies--so bear with me.

I'm looking for some insight into the meaning of the Nahuatl name for a
plant (*Datura stramonium*), identified in textual sources as either
"toloatzin" or "tolohuaxihuitl" (Codex de la Cruz-Badiano).

What I am a little confused with is this: I understand that "t?lo?" is
simply a verb in its infinitive form, usually translated as "to bow (the
head)," or "to bend"?so at first it would seem that "toloatzin" might be
very literally translated as "the revered to bend." This obviously doesn't
sound right. Is there some rule in Nahuatl nominal formation that allows
for the presence of the infinitive, or its transformation to produce the
normal translation of "toloatzin" that I see?"the revered bended one"?

As an addendum to this, in "tolohuaxihuitl," I understand -xihuitl to
pretty unambiguously signify "herb." Am I also correct to assume that the
-ohua in "tolohua" is simply an transliterative variant of -oa (thus being
the same form as in "toloatzin")?therefore "tolohuaxihuitl" is to be
understood as "the herb, the bended one"?

Finally, while I know that this is addressed in Romero's monograph *El Dios
Tolotzin*, I haven't been able to access it--does anyone have any
information about a deity known as Tolo, and whether he might be considered
a "hypostatized" tolohuaxihuitl?


Best regards,

Stewart Felker (University of Memphis)
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From mmccaffe at indiana.edu  Sun Nov 27 20:03:51 2011
From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 15:03:51 -0500
Subject: Anomalies/enigmas of the plant "toloatzin" (and a deity
 "Tolo")?
In-Reply-To: <CADr0k_=O8vodV_m8mcyEFQ2bdeohZtOUngLehdyT6TpU4DLESw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SUN.27.NOV.2011.150351.0500.MMCCAFFE@INDIANA.EDU>

Stewart:

Florentine Codex (Dibble and Anderson), Book 11, page 147, gives 
"Toloa" as a term for Datura. That would imply, with the endearment 
suffix -tzin attached in your word 'toloatzin', that we are not dealing 
with a verb; 'toloa' here is a noun, and an unusual one, in that it 
lacks an absolutive suffix, the "-tl/-tli" that you see in Nahuatl.

The noun "toloa" (presumed *toloatl*) could be found to derive from a 
verb, although we have a slight problem since there are two verbs in 
the sources spelled "toloa," one meaning 'bend', the other 'swallow'.

Michael McCafferty



Quoting Stewart Felker <stewart.felker at gmail.com>:

> Greetings! New member here; and while I'm really glad to have found this
> list, I'm still quite an amateur in Mesoamerican studies--so bear with me.
>
> I'm looking for some insight into the meaning of the Nahuatl name for a
> plant (*Datura stramonium*), identified in textual sources as either
> "toloatzin" or "tolohuaxihuitl" (Codex de la Cruz-Badiano).
>
> What I am a little confused with is this: I understand that "t?lo?" is
> simply a verb in its infinitive form, usually translated as "to bow (the
> head)," or "to bend"?so at first it would seem that "toloatzin" might be
> very literally translated as "the revered to bend." This obviously doesn't
> sound right. Is there some rule in Nahuatl nominal formation that allows
> for the presence of the infinitive, or its transformation to produce the
> normal translation of "toloatzin" that I see?"the revered bended one"?
>
> As an addendum to this, in "tolohuaxihuitl," I understand -xihuitl to
> pretty unambiguously signify "herb." Am I also correct to assume that the
> -ohua in "tolohua" is simply an transliterative variant of -oa (thus being
> the same form as in "toloatzin")?therefore "tolohuaxihuitl" is to be
> understood as "the herb, the bended one"?
>
> Finally, while I know that this is addressed in Romero's monograph *El Dios
> Tolotzin*, I haven't been able to access it--does anyone have any
> information about a deity known as Tolo, and whether he might be considered
> a "hypostatized" tolohuaxihuitl?
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Stewart Felker (University of Memphis)
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>



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From 4anahuac at gmail.com  Wed Nov 30 06:20:28 2011
From: 4anahuac at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Fernando_Garc=EDa_G=2E?=)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 00:20:28 -0600
Subject: Mezquite
Message-ID: <WED.30.NOV.2011.002028.0600.4ANAHUAC@GMAIL.COM>

Saludos

Mi pregunta es sencilla: hay un ?rbol que se llama Mezquite, que es muy
com?n en M?xico. Da unas vainas con sabor que se mastican. Su madera, por
ser dura, se utiliza a veces para hacer muebles y casi siempre como le?a.

Ahora bien, hace unos cinco a?os un profesor de una escuela secundaria de
Yuriria, Guanajuato, platic? que el ?rbol de mezquite debe cortarse cuando
est? la luna llena. ?esto para qu?? para que, gracias a la gravedad
ejercida por la luna, la madera comprima sus fibras y los le?os resultantes
de la tala tengan mayor dureza. Yo no s? si la gravedad de la luna, que
bien produce las mareas, sea capaz de apretar la madera.

Aqu? va la pregunta, el nombre *Mezquite* me suena a la combinaci?n de
'me:tz-tli' y 'quil(i)tl'

me:tz-tli = luna o mes.

quil(i)tl = verdura, yerbas comestibles. [esta palabra se conserva como
'quelite']

(me:tz - tli + quilitl ) = me:tzquilitl

El significado resultante supongo que es parecido a 'yerba de la luna'

Aunque para que fuera 'Mezquite' tal cual, tendr?a que transformarse la
palabra 'quelite' por 'quite'.
?es posible que el nombre Mezquite tenga este origen?
Lo m?s seguro es que estoy cometiendo un error, porque el Mezquite no es
una hierba sino un ?rbol, y porque desconozco en que se bas? el profesor
para decir lo del tronco cortado bajo la luna llena.

Agradezco mucho que la lista est? abierta a todos los que quieran
participar, por admitirme y as? poder tomar un poco de su atenci?n.
(las palabras en N?huatl las tom? del diccionario de Karttunen).

Fernando
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From mmccaffe at indiana.edu  Wed Nov 30 12:40:33 2011
From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 07:40:33 -0500
Subject: Mezquite
In-Reply-To: <CAH6N8skXZWjEzQCM2CkLVMxsXi_P_y9AMbbX8yT-8SiQBLct0w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <WED.30.NOV.2011.074033.0500.MMCCAFFE@INDIANA.EDU>

Fernando,

No se las respuestas pero gracias de una historia muy interesante.

Michael

Quoting "Fernando Garc?a G." <4anahuac at gmail.com>:

> Saludos
>
> Mi pregunta es sencilla: hay un ?rbol que se llama Mezquite, que es muy
> com?n en M?xico. Da unas vainas con sabor que se mastican. Su madera, por
> ser dura, se utiliza a veces para hacer muebles y casi siempre como le?a.
>
> Ahora bien, hace unos cinco a?os un profesor de una escuela secundaria de
> Yuriria, Guanajuato, platic? que el ?rbol de mezquite debe cortarse cuando
> est? la luna llena. ?esto para qu?? para que, gracias a la gravedad
> ejercida por la luna, la madera comprima sus fibras y los le?os resultantes
> de la tala tengan mayor dureza. Yo no s? si la gravedad de la luna, que
> bien produce las mareas, sea capaz de apretar la madera.
>
> Aqu? va la pregunta, el nombre *Mezquite* me suena a la combinaci?n de
> 'me:tz-tli' y 'quil(i)tl'
>
> me:tz-tli = luna o mes.
>
> quil(i)tl = verdura, yerbas comestibles. [esta palabra se conserva como
> 'quelite']
>
> (me:tz - tli + quilitl ) = me:tzquilitl
>
> El significado resultante supongo que es parecido a 'yerba de la luna'
>
> Aunque para que fuera 'Mezquite' tal cual, tendr?a que transformarse la
> palabra 'quelite' por 'quite'.
> ?es posible que el nombre Mezquite tenga este origen?
> Lo m?s seguro es que estoy cometiendo un error, porque el Mezquite no es
> una hierba sino un ?rbol, y porque desconozco en que se bas? el profesor
> para decir lo del tronco cortado bajo la luna llena.
>
> Agradezco mucho que la lista est? abierta a todos los que quieran
> participar, por admitirme y as? poder tomar un poco de su atenci?n.
> (las palabras en N?huatl las tom? del diccionario de Karttunen).
>
> Fernando
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>



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From jdanahuatl at gmail.com  Wed Nov 30 22:30:17 2011
From: jdanahuatl at gmail.com (Jonathan Amith)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 17:30:17 -0500
Subject: Mezquite
In-Reply-To: <20111130074033.3g7950gk0cw8scko@webmail.iu.edu>
Message-ID: <WED.30.NOV.2011.173017.0500.JDANAHUATL@GMAIL.COM>

Hi,

The belief in moon phases affecting the properties of cut wood is a long,
long European tradition. Whether it was also New World I don't know, I
don't remember having seen it in any colonial sources through it is a
common belief throughout indigenous and non-indigenous villages.

The tree term mezquite has a lot of referents, not all Leguminosae. In the
Costa Chica of Guerrero I have recorded a Ficus called mezquite. The
edible-pod mi:skitl is probably Prosopis laevigata (H. & B. ex Willd.) M.C.
Johnst. (this from the Balsas Valley) although perhaps also P. juliflora in
other parts of Mexico.

In the Sierra Norte de Puebla there is another tree called miskitl (short
/i/), probably Diphysa americana (Mill.) M. Sousa or Lonchocarpus
hidalgensis Lundell (I need to check which one is the referent of the
indigenous term). Maximino Martinez lists Lysiloma divaricata and
Parkinsonia aculeata as referents for mezquite. I do not know if these have
edible pods like Prosopis laevigata.




2011/11/30 Michael McCafferty <mmccaffe at indiana.edu>

> Fernando,
>
> No se las respuestas pero gracias de una historia muy interesante.
>
> Michael
>
>
> Quoting "Fernando Garc?a G." <4anahuac at gmail.com>:
>
>  Saludos
>>
>> Mi pregunta es sencilla: hay un ?rbol que se llama Mezquite, que es muy
>> com?n en M?xico. Da unas vainas con sabor que se mastican. Su madera, por
>> ser dura, se utiliza a veces para hacer muebles y casi siempre como le?a.
>>
>> Ahora bien, hace unos cinco a?os un profesor de una escuela secundaria de
>> Yuriria, Guanajuato, platic? que el ?rbol de mezquite debe cortarse cuando
>> est? la luna llena. ?esto para qu?? para que, gracias a la gravedad
>> ejercida por la luna, la madera comprima sus fibras y los le?os
>> resultantes
>> de la tala tengan mayor dureza. Yo no s? si la gravedad de la luna, que
>> bien produce las mareas, sea capaz de apretar la madera.
>>
>> Aqu? va la pregunta, el nombre *Mezquite* me suena a la combinaci?n de
>> 'me:tz-tli' y 'quil(i)tl'
>>
>> me:tz-tli = luna o mes.
>>
>> quil(i)tl = verdura, yerbas comestibles. [esta palabra se conserva como
>> 'quelite']
>>
>> (me:tz - tli + quilitl ) = me:tzquilitl
>>
>> El significado resultante supongo que es parecido a 'yerba de la luna'
>>
>> Aunque para que fuera 'Mezquite' tal cual, tendr?a que transformarse la
>> palabra 'quelite' por 'quite'.
>> ?es posible que el nombre Mezquite tenga este origen?
>> Lo m?s seguro es que estoy cometiendo un error, porque el Mezquite no es
>> una hierba sino un ?rbol, y porque desconozco en que se bas? el profesor
>> para decir lo del tronco cortado bajo la luna llena.
>>
>> Agradezco mucho que la lista est? abierta a todos los que quieran
>> participar, por admitirme y as? poder tomar un poco de su atenci?n.
>> (las palabras en N?huatl las tom? del diccionario de Karttunen).
>>
>> Fernando
>> ______________________________**_________________
>> Nahuatl mailing list
>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/**listinfo/nahuatl<http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl>
>>
>>
>
>
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From chelodona at hotmail.com  Wed Nov 30 19:20:18 2011
From: chelodona at hotmail.com (chelo dona)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 16:20:18 -0300
Subject: Mezquite
In-Reply-To: <20111130074033.3g7950gk0cw8scko@webmail.iu.edu>
Message-ID: <WED.30.NOV.2011.162018.0300.CHELODONA@HOTMAIL.COM>

Es muy interesante! 

Toda madera resulta de diferente duraci?n y calidad seg?n la luna en que se corte, por lo que tengo entendido esto se debe a la cantidad de agua que tiene en ese momento. Del mismo modo no da el mismo resultado cortarse el pelo o las u?as, o sembrar en distintas lunas.


 		 	   		  
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From rbenavides05 at hotmail.com  Wed Nov 30 18:29:29 2011
From: rbenavides05 at hotmail.com (R. B.)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 12:29:29 -0600
Subject: Mezquite (Rafael Benavides)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3.1322676002.30714.nahuatl@lists.famsi.org>
Message-ID: <WED.30.NOV.2011.122929.0600.RBENAVIDES05@HOTMAIL.COM>

Hola Fernando,
Soy de la frontera de Texas y Tamaulipas, y me acuerdo mucho de mi abuelito con esa historia del mesquite, y si es cierto que se tiene que cortar cuando hay una luna llena--en nuestro caso, para utilizarlas como postes en el rancho, si no se pudren.
Aunque no se cual es la etimologia de la palabra, yo tengo entendido que "mezquite" en Nahuatl es mizquitl, o mizquicuauhuitl, no metzquilitl. Karttunen nos afirma esto en su libro, "An Analytical Dictionary of Nahuatl".
Saludos cordiales,Rafael Benavides


> From: nahuatl-request at lists.famsi.org
> Subject: Nahuatl Digest, Vol 239, Issue 2
> To: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 12:00:02 -0600
> 
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> Today's Topics:
> 
>    1. Mezquite (Fernando Garc?a G.)
>    2. Re: Mezquite (Michael McCafferty)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 00:20:28 -0600
> From: Fernando Garc?a G. <4anahuac at gmail.com>
> To: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> Subject: [Nahuat-l] Mezquite
> Message-ID:
> 	<CAH6N8skXZWjEzQCM2CkLVMxsXi_P_y9AMbbX8yT-8SiQBLct0w at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> 
> Saludos
> 
> Mi pregunta es sencilla: hay un ?rbol que se llama Mezquite, que es muy
> com?n en M?xico. Da unas vainas con sabor que se mastican. Su madera, por
> ser dura, se utiliza a veces para hacer muebles y casi siempre como le?a.
> 
> Ahora bien, hace unos cinco a?os un profesor de una escuela secundaria de
> Yuriria, Guanajuato, platic? que el ?rbol de mezquite debe cortarse cuando
> est? la luna llena. ?esto para qu?? para que, gracias a la gravedad
> ejercida por la luna, la madera comprima sus fibras y los le?os resultantes
> de la tala tengan mayor dureza. Yo no s? si la gravedad de la luna, que
> bien produce las mareas, sea capaz de apretar la madera.
> 
> Aqu? va la pregunta, el nombre *Mezquite* me suena a la combinaci?n de
> 'me:tz-tli' y 'quil(i)tl'
> 
> me:tz-tli = luna o mes.
> 
> quil(i)tl = verdura, yerbas comestibles. [esta palabra se conserva como
> 'quelite']
> 
> (me:tz - tli + quilitl ) = me:tzquilitl
> 
> El significado resultante supongo que es parecido a 'yerba de la luna'
> 
> Aunque para que fuera 'Mezquite' tal cual, tendr?a que transformarse la
> palabra 'quelite' por 'quite'.
> ?es posible que el nombre Mezquite tenga este origen?
> Lo m?s seguro es que estoy cometiendo un error, porque el Mezquite no es
> una hierba sino un ?rbol, y porque desconozco en que se bas? el profesor
> para decir lo del tronco cortado bajo la luna llena.
> 
> Agradezco mucho que la lista est? abierta a todos los que quieran
> participar, por admitirme y as? poder tomar un poco de su atenci?n.
> (las palabras en N?huatl las tom? del diccionario de Karttunen).
> 
> Fernando
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 07:40:33 -0500
> From: Michael McCafferty <mmccaffe at indiana.edu>
> To: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> Subject: Re: [Nahuat-l] Mezquite
> Message-ID: <20111130074033.3g7950gk0cw8scko at webmail.iu.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset=ISO-8859-1;	format="flowed"
> 
> Fernando,
> 
> No se las respuestas pero gracias de una historia muy interesante.
> 
> Michael
> 
> Quoting "Fernando Garc?a G." <4anahuac at gmail.com>:
> 
> > Saludos
> >
> > Mi pregunta es sencilla: hay un ?rbol que se llama Mezquite, que es muy
> > com?n en M?xico. Da unas vainas con sabor que se mastican. Su madera, por
> > ser dura, se utiliza a veces para hacer muebles y casi siempre como le?a.
> >
> > Ahora bien, hace unos cinco a?os un profesor de una escuela secundaria de
> > Yuriria, Guanajuato, platic? que el ?rbol de mezquite debe cortarse cuando
> > est? la luna llena. ?esto para qu?? para que, gracias a la gravedad
> > ejercida por la luna, la madera comprima sus fibras y los le?os resultantes
> > de la tala tengan mayor dureza. Yo no s? si la gravedad de la luna, que
> > bien produce las mareas, sea capaz de apretar la madera.
> >
> > Aqu? va la pregunta, el nombre *Mezquite* me suena a la combinaci?n de
> > 'me:tz-tli' y 'quil(i)tl'
> >
> > me:tz-tli = luna o mes.
> >
> > quil(i)tl = verdura, yerbas comestibles. [esta palabra se conserva como
> > 'quelite']
> >
> > (me:tz - tli + quilitl ) = me:tzquilitl
> >
> > El significado resultante supongo que es parecido a 'yerba de la luna'
> >
> > Aunque para que fuera 'Mezquite' tal cual, tendr?a que transformarse la
> > palabra 'quelite' por 'quite'.
> > ?es posible que el nombre Mezquite tenga este origen?
> > Lo m?s seguro es que estoy cometiendo un error, porque el Mezquite no es
> > una hierba sino un ?rbol, y porque desconozco en que se bas? el profesor
> > para decir lo del tronco cortado bajo la luna llena.
> >
> > Agradezco mucho que la lista est? abierta a todos los que quieran
> > participar, por admitirme y as? poder tomar un poco de su atenci?n.
> > (las palabras en N?huatl las tom? del diccionario de Karttunen).
> >
> > Fernando
> > _______________________________________________
> > Nahuatl mailing list
> > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
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> 
> End of Nahuatl Digest, Vol 239, Issue 2
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From mmccaffe at indiana.edu  Wed Nov 30 23:04:37 2011
From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 18:04:37 -0500
Subject: Mezquite
In-Reply-To: <SNT114-W319EA1704CF04F583B3470A6B00@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <WED.30.NOV.2011.180437.0500.MMCCAFFE@INDIANA.EDU>

Nahuatl mizquitl is regular in the way it was borrowed into Spanish 
with final -ite ending.

Seems to me that mizquitl has nothing to do with me:tzli, because of 
the vowel length discrepancy between /i/ and /e:/.

I haven't checked Joe, but mizqu(i)- seems to be a morpheme all of its 
own...unless this is mi:ztli + quilitl, and the quilitl has been 
shortened. (The Proto-Algonquian term for 'dogwood tree' translates to 
'cat wood'.)

Michael



Quoting chelo dona <chelodona at hotmail.com>:

>
> Es muy interesante!
>
> Toda madera resulta de diferente duraci?n y calidad seg?n la luna en
> que se corte, por lo que tengo entendido esto se debe a la cantidad
> de agua que tiene en ese momento. Del mismo modo no da el mismo
> resultado cortarse el pelo o las u?as, o sembrar en distintas lunas.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>



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