From schwallr at potsdam.edu  Fri Oct  7 12:59:59 2011
From: schwallr at potsdam.edu (John F. Schwaller)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2011 08:59:59 -0400
Subject: Major Aztec find at the Templo Mayor!
In-Reply-To: <21BDA66F-33F4-45CB-A1F8-D90697CB9C29@mac.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.7.OCT.2011.085959.0400.SCHWALLR@POTSDAM.EDU>

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: 	[Aztlan] Major Aztec find at the Templo Mayor!
Date: 	6 Oct 2011 22:59:04 -0500
From: 	michael ruggeri <michaelruggeri at mac.com>
To: 	aztlan at lists.famsi.org



Listeros,

Archaeologists have found a round Aztec ceremonial platform with 19 stone serpents heads at the Templo Mayor in Mexico City. It was built circa 1469 CE. Records indicate there were five such platforms in the complex. One other was found last year. Archaeologists are stating that they are getting closer to finding the tomb of an Aztec emperor now. Work in a nearby neighborhood site discovered a few years ago, and suspected of being the possible tomb of Aztec emperor Ahuizotl, found a stairway and offerings, but no tomb as of yet. Though the work there continues.

The Huffington Post has the story here;
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/06/aztec-temple-mexico-city_n_999145.html

And INAH reports on its finds directly;
The structure was found five feet deep and corresponds to Stage IV B, during the rule of Axayacatl. And again, INAH states that this may be close to a sacred precinct where emperors were buried. They have also found two tablets of stone with a Mexica shield related to Huitzilopochtli and to smoke and fire, perhaps referring to cremation. They will continue to excavate carefully and look especially for a staircase that could lead to a tomb.

INAH has the report here (in Spanish) with a very good slide show of the finds. Click on the tiny "fotos" link near the top.
http://www.inah.gob.mx/index.php/boletines/17-arqueologia/5279-descubren-plataforma-de-la-antigua-tenochtitlan

A tiny URL;
http://goo.gl/gQFfX

Mike Ruggeri

Mike Ruggeri's Toltec and Aztec Art Portfolio
http://tinyurl.com/kqed7t










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From juanvazquezvaz at aol.com  Sat Oct  8 02:48:05 2011
From: juanvazquezvaz at aol.com (juan Vazquez)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2011 22:48:05 -0400
Subject: tlanicuilulco, guerrero
Message-ID: <FRI.7.OCT.2011.224805.0400.JUANVAZQUEZVAZ@AOL.COM>

I need help in finding out the meaning of TLANICUILULCO........
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From a.appleyard at btinternet.com  Sat Oct  8 13:30:46 2011
From: a.appleyard at btinternet.com (ANTHONY APPLEYARD)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2011 14:30:46 +0100
Subject: tlanicuilulco, guerrero
In-Reply-To: <8CE537BD6BD8404-1904-54346@webmail-m101.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <SAT.8.OCT.2011.143046.0100.A.APPLEYARD@BTINTERNET.COM>

Please, in what context did it occur?

Por favor, en qué contexto ocurrió?


--- On Sat, 8/10/11, juan Vazquez <juanvazquezvaz at aol.com> wrote:
I need help in finding out the meaning of TLANICUILULCO........

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From mmccaffe at indiana.edu  Sat Oct  8 15:01:43 2011
From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2011 11:01:43 -0400
Subject: tlanicuilulco, guerrero
In-Reply-To: <8CE537BD6BD8404-1904-54346@webmail-m101.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <SAT.8.OCT.2011.110143.0400.MMCCAFFE@INDIANA.EDU>

Quoting juan Vazquez <juanvazquezvaz at aol.com>:

> I need help in finding out the meaning of TLANICUILULCO........
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>

Juan,

This is a fun word, as it can take you in several directions. It will 
be interesting to see what the term means.

To me it seems to be composed of the following:

tlan(i) 'downwards' + (i)hcuilu:lo: 'it is written, painted' + -co "place".

That tlan-, of course, also looks like 'tooth'.

Monequi nimitzilhuiz ahmo nicmati inezca inin altepetocaitl.

Michael




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From idiez at me.com  Sun Oct  9 19:12:13 2011
From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan/IDIEZ)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2011 14:12:13 -0500
Subject: tlanicuilulco, guerrero
In-Reply-To: <20111008110143.ch0etwuysgogo8so@webmail.iu.edu>
Message-ID: <SUN.9.OCT.2011.141213.0500.IDIEZ@ME.COM>

Piyali notequixpoyohuan,
	This word is made up of the noun tlanihcuilolli and the locative/place-name-maker -co (place of).
Now let’s look at tlanihcuilolli. This is a verbal noun that comes from the transitive verb tlanihcuiloa. And tlanihcuiloa comes from tlantli, “tooth” and ihcuiloa, “to write, inscribe or paint s.t.” And ihcuiloa ultimately comes from the idea of scratching/engraving, and that may be important here. Anyway, tlantl is the object of ihcuiloa, so tlanihcuiloa mean to engrave, write, inscribe, paint a tooth. When we turn this into a passive action noun, tlantli, originally the object of the verb, becomes the focus of the noun. So tlanihcuilolli is a engraved written, inscribed or painted tooth. Perhaps the scratching thing does have importance here, because we could be talking about a geographic formation within the context of sacred landscape, that looks like a tooth, perhaps a rock formation. So it would seem that tlanihcuilolco would mean, “place of the engraved, written, inscribed or painted tooth.” Perhaps Juan has some local cultural or geographic information that could help to narrow this down.
John

John Sullivan, Ph.D.
Professor of Nahua language and culture
Universidad Autónoma de Zacatecas
Zacatecas Institute of Teaching and Research in Ethnology
Tacuba 152, int. 43
Centro Histórico
Zacatecas, Zac. 98000
Mexico
Work: +52 (492) 925-3415
Home: +52 (492) 768-6048
Mobile (Mexico): +52 1 (492) 103-0195
Mobile (US): (615) 649-2790
idiez at me.com


On Oct 8, 2011, at 10:01 AM, Michael McCafferty wrote:

> Quoting juan Vazquez <juanvazquezvaz at aol.com>:
> 
>> I need help in finding out the meaning of TLANICUILULCO........
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nahuatl mailing list
>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>> 
> 
> Juan,
> 
> This is a fun word, as it can take you in several directions. It will be interesting to see what the term means.
> 
> To me it seems to be composed of the following:
> 
> tlan(i) 'downwards' + (i)hcuilu:lo: 'it is written, painted' + -co "place".
> 
> That tlan-, of course, also looks like 'tooth'.
> 
> Monequi nimitzilhuiz ahmo nicmati inezca inin altepetocaitl.
> 
> Michael
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl




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From idiez at me.com  Sun Oct  9 21:03:50 2011
From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan/IDIEZ)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2011 16:03:50 -0500
Subject: tlanicuilulco, guerrero
In-Reply-To: <20111009154742.6gz80oqzb4wsossg@webmail.iu.edu>
Message-ID: <SUN.9.OCT.2011.160350.0500.IDIEZ@ME.COM>

Michael,
	Although relational word roots are sometimes treated as noun roots and stuck on to nouns and verbs, most with an adverbial sense or when multiple-word phrases are reanalyzed and scrunched down into one word, I don’t recall seeing that happen to either the free-standing tlani or the possessed relational -tlan. In this case, tlani or -tlan would be the object of ihcuiloa, and that would really be strange.
John

On Oct 9, 2011, at 2:47 PM, Michael McCafferty wrote:

> Nice, John.
> 
> I gave the word about two seconds of my time and didn't go the further
> step to ihcuilolli, which is why, as I was walking around later
> yesterday afternoon,I suddenly said to myself, "So, with ihcuilolo, how
> do you account for that final -l- in tlanicuilulco, once -lo is lopped
> off ihcuilolo to accept the locative suffix? Doh!--Ihcuilolli."
> 
> 
> As for the tlan- part, homophony is curious phenomenon: tlan(i)
> 'downwards' and tlan(tli) 'tooth'. This is of course at the heart of
> the fun of Nahuatl.
> 
> In light of tlanicahua, tlanihuah, etc., one (meaning nehhuaton) might
> accept tlanihcuiloa with a 'tlani' meaning. But I'm interested in the
> 'tooth' analysis.
> It makes sense.
> 
> 
> Michael
> 
> 
> 
> Quoting John Sullivan/IDIEZ <idiez at me.com>:
> 
>> Piyali notequixpoyohuan,
>> 	This word is made up of the noun tlanihcuilolli and the
>> locative/place-name-maker -co (place of).
>> Now let?s look at tlanihcuilolli. This is a verbal noun that comes
>> from the transitive verb tlanihcuiloa. And tlanihcuiloa comes from
>> tlantli, ?tooth? and ihcuiloa, ?to write, inscribe or paint s.t.? And
>> ihcuiloa ultimately comes from the idea of scratching/engraving, and
>> that may be important here. Anyway, tlantl is the object of ihcuiloa,
>> so tlanihcuiloa mean to engrave, write, inscribe, paint a tooth. When
>> we turn this into a passive action noun, tlantli, originally the
>> object of the verb, becomes the focus of the noun. So tlanihcuilolli
>> is a engraved written, inscribed or painted tooth. Perhaps the
>> scratching thing does have importance here, because we could be
>> talking about a geographic formation within the context of sacred
>> landscape, that looks like a tooth, perhaps a rock formation. So it
>> would seem that tlanihcuilolco would mean, ?place of the engraved,
>> written, inscribed or painted tooth.? Perhaps Juan has some local
>> cultural or geographic information that could help to narrow this
>> down.
>> John
>> 
>> John Sullivan, Ph.D.
>> Professor of Nahua language and culture
>> Universidad Autónoma de Zacatecas
>> Zacatecas Institute of Teaching and Research in Ethnology
>> Tacuba 152, int. 43
>> Centro Histórico
>> Zacatecas, Zac. 98000
>> Mexico
>> Work: +52 (492) 925-3415
>> Home: +52 (492) 768-6048
>> Mobile (Mexico): +52 1 (492) 103-0195
>> Mobile (US): (615) 649-2790
>> idiez at me.com
>> 
>> 
>> On Oct 8, 2011, at 10:01 AM, Michael McCafferty wrote:
>> 
>>> Quoting juan Vazquez <juanvazquezvaz at aol.com>:
>>> 
>>>> I need help in finding out the meaning of TLANICUILULCO........
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Nahuatl mailing list
>>>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>>>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> Juan,
>>> 
>>> This is a fun word, as it can take you in several directions. It
>>> will be interesting to see what the term means.
>>> 
>>> To me it seems to be composed of the following:
>>> 
>>> tlan(i) 'downwards' + (i)hcuilu:lo: 'it is written, painted' + -co "place".
>>> 
>>> That tlan-, of course, also looks like 'tooth'.
>>> 
>>> Monequi nimitzilhuiz ahmo nicmati inezca inin altepetocaitl.
>>> 
>>> Michael
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nahuatl mailing list
>>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 

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From cipactonal at yahoo.com.mx  Sun Oct  9 18:35:18 2011
From: cipactonal at yahoo.com.mx (Ignacio Silva)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2011 11:35:18 -0700
Subject: Rv: Un Sistema Operativo en Idioma Nahuatl ... Linux en Nahuatl
 -N4hu1n1x-
In-Reply-To: <SNT107-W35A85C17582F0A6E1EBFDDBEFF0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <SUN.9.OCT.2011.113518.0700.CIPACTONAL@YAHOO.COM.MX>

----- Mensaje reenviado -----
De: J. Ponciano <jponcianovera at hotmail.com>
Para: aguilar.d.leon at gmail.com; alicia6189 at hotmail.com; chorenmeister at gmail.com; lcisarova at yahoo.com.mx; jucons at correo.filos.unam.mx; berthacouvert at prodigy.net.mx; lydiafloresa at gmail.com; geraldine at correo.filos.unam.mx; martadelefyl at gmail.com; lguzmandemalo at yahoo.com; arlen_2385 at hotmail.com; toni19012 at hotmail.com; prietog at correo.unam.mx; iramirezd at yahoo.com; cipactonal at yahoo.com.mx; mapasim at servidor.unam.mx; sule at servidor.unam.mx; alrotj25 at yahoo.com.mx; rosalba2604 at yahoo.com.mx
Enviado: Sábado, 8 de octubre, 2011 15:56:44
Asunto: Un Sistema Operativo en Idioma Nahuatl ... Linux en Nahuatl -N4hu1n1x-






Estimado Profesor

Reciba un saludo cordial. Agradecemos su colaboración para reenviar esta información a los estudiantes de Facultad de Filosofía y Letras UNAM. Consideramos que podría ser de interés para algunos de ellos. Estamos en busca de personas: estudiantes en general, tesistas, colectivos culturales, etc; que colaboren con este proyecto TARDUCIR LA INTERFAZ DE UN SISTEMA OPERATIVO DE COMPUTADORA A IDIOMA NAHUATL que conjuntamente con el desarrollo técnico paralelo pueda dar origen a N4u1n1x.

http://sblue.com.mx/N4hu1n1x/

Gracias de antemano!




N4hu1n1x: GNU/Linuxen lenguaje NAHUATL Alternativa de Sistema Operativopara uso de la gente de las comunidades de habla en idioma NAHUATL

Descargar IntroN4hu1n1x.rar de http://sblue.com.mx/N4hu1n1x/ Requiere para descomprimir el programa winrar que lo 
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----------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------

- SE AGRADECE LO RE ENVÍEN A SUS CONTACTOS

- SE REQUIERE DE BANDA QUE APOYE EN LAS TAREAS DE TRADUCCIÓN ASÍ COMO DE DESARROLLO
 
- PROYECTO SIN FINES LUCRATIVOS
 
- PUEDE SER USADO PARA ALGUNAS TESIS EN SU CASO

- NO ESTA LIMITADO AL ÁMBITO ACADÉMICO se HACE EXTENSIVA LA CONVOCATORIA A COLECTIVOS CULTURALES, PERSONAS EN GRAL, SIN NINGÚN TIPO DE RESTRICCIÓN

- LOS CRÉDITOS DE TODA LAS PERSONAS QUE COLABOREN O CONTRIBUYAN SE AÑADIRÁN A LA VERSIÓN(ES) A LIBERAR

- CUALQUIER DUDA O COMENTARIO PUEDEN COMUNICARSE CON:

 JONATHAN PONCIANO
Estudiante de Matemáticas de la Facultad de Ciencias UNAM
<jponcianovera at hotmail.com> 
Cel. 04455 4023-2600
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From mmccaffe at indiana.edu  Sun Oct  9 19:47:42 2011
From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2011 15:47:42 -0400
Subject: tlanicuilulco, guerrero
In-Reply-To: <B61D9C54-68E0-4B4D-997D-984D08CE717A@me.com>
Message-ID: <SUN.9.OCT.2011.154742.0400.MMCCAFFE@INDIANA.EDU>

Nice, John.

I gave the word about two seconds of my time and didn't go the further 
step to ihcuilolli, which is why, as I was walking around later 
yesterday afternoon,I suddenly said to myself, "So, with ihcuilolo, how 
do you account for that final -l- in tlanicuilulco, once -lo is lopped 
off ihcuilolo to accept the locative suffix? Doh!--Ihcuilolli."


As for the tlan- part, homophony is curious phenomenon: tlan(i) 
'downwards' and tlan(tli) 'tooth'. This is of course at the heart of 
the fun of Nahuatl.

In light of tlanicahua, tlanihuah, etc., one (meaning nehhuaton) might 
accept tlanihcuiloa with a 'tlani' meaning. But I'm interested in the 
'tooth' analysis.
It makes sense.


Michael



Quoting John Sullivan/IDIEZ <idiez at me.com>:

> Piyali notequixpoyohuan,
> 	This word is made up of the noun tlanihcuilolli and the
> locative/place-name-maker -co (place of).
> Now let?s look at tlanihcuilolli. This is a verbal noun that comes
> from the transitive verb tlanihcuiloa. And tlanihcuiloa comes from
> tlantli, ?tooth? and ihcuiloa, ?to write, inscribe or paint s.t.? And
> ihcuiloa ultimately comes from the idea of scratching/engraving, and
> that may be important here. Anyway, tlantl is the object of ihcuiloa,
> so tlanihcuiloa mean to engrave, write, inscribe, paint a tooth. When
> we turn this into a passive action noun, tlantli, originally the
> object of the verb, becomes the focus of the noun. So tlanihcuilolli
> is a engraved written, inscribed or painted tooth. Perhaps the
> scratching thing does have importance here, because we could be
> talking about a geographic formation within the context of sacred
> landscape, that looks like a tooth, perhaps a rock formation. So it
> would seem that tlanihcuilolco would mean, ?place of the engraved,
> written, inscribed or painted tooth.? Perhaps Juan has some local
> cultural or geographic information that could help to narrow this
> down.
> John
>
> John Sullivan, Ph.D.
> Professor of Nahua language and culture
> Universidad Autónoma de Zacatecas
> Zacatecas Institute of Teaching and Research in Ethnology
> Tacuba 152, int. 43
> Centro Histórico
> Zacatecas, Zac. 98000
> Mexico
> Work: +52 (492) 925-3415
> Home: +52 (492) 768-6048
> Mobile (Mexico): +52 1 (492) 103-0195
> Mobile (US): (615) 649-2790
> idiez at me.com
>
>
> On Oct 8, 2011, at 10:01 AM, Michael McCafferty wrote:
>
>> Quoting juan Vazquez <juanvazquezvaz at aol.com>:
>>
>>> I need help in finding out the meaning of TLANICUILULCO........
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nahuatl mailing list
>>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>>>
>>
>> Juan,
>>
>> This is a fun word, as it can take you in several directions. It
>> will be interesting to see what the term means.
>>
>> To me it seems to be composed of the following:
>>
>> tlan(i) 'downwards' + (i)hcuilu:lo: 'it is written, painted' + -co "place".
>>
>> That tlan-, of course, also looks like 'tooth'.
>>
>> Monequi nimitzilhuiz ahmo nicmati inezca inin altepetocaitl.
>>
>> Michael
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nahuatl mailing list
>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>
>
>
>
>



_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From idiez at me.com  Sun Oct  9 23:27:03 2011
From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan/IDIEZ)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2011 18:27:03 -0500
Subject: tlanicuilulco, guerrero
In-Reply-To: <83232E57-461E-44DE-A35F-E270E2A18FCC@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <SUN.9.OCT.2011.182703.0500.IDIEZ@ME.COM>

Fran,
	Tlanecuilolli, “s.t. twisted or warped,” referring to the hooked mountain of Colhuahcan, also fits well within the context of sacred landscape.
John

On Oct 9, 2011, at 4:37 PM, Frances Karttunen wrote:

> OR:
> 
> Try analyzing it as tlanecuilolco.
> 
> The transitive verb necuiloa is in Molina.
> 
> Fran Karttunen
> 
> On Oct 9, 2011, at 3:12 PM, John Sullivan/IDIEZ wrote:
> 
>> Piyali notequixpoyohuan,
>> 	This word is made up of the noun tlanihcuilolli and the locative/place-name-maker -co (place of).
>> Now let’s look at tlanihcuilolli. This is a verbal noun that comes from the transitive verb tlanihcuiloa. And tlanihcuiloa comes from tlantli, “tooth” and ihcuiloa, “to write, inscribe or paint s.t.” And ihcuiloa ultimately comes from the idea of scratching/engraving, and that may be important here. Anyway, tlantl is the object of ihcuiloa, so tlanihcuiloa mean to engrave, write, inscribe, paint a tooth. When we turn this into a passive action noun, tlantli, originally the object of the verb, becomes the focus of the noun. So tlanihcuilolli is a engraved written, inscribed or painted tooth. Perhaps the scratching thing does have importance here, because we could be talking about a geographic formation within the context of sacred landscape, that looks like a tooth, perhaps a rock formation. So it would seem that tlanihcuilolco would mean, “place of the engraved, written, inscribed or painted tooth.” Perhaps Juan has some local cultural or geographic information that could help to narrow this down.
>> John
>> 
>> John Sullivan, Ph.D.
>> Professor of Nahua language and culture
>> Universidad Autónoma de Zacatecas
>> Zacatecas Institute of Teaching and Research in Ethnology
>> Tacuba 152, int. 43
>> Centro Histórico
>> Zacatecas, Zac. 98000
>> Mexico
>> Work: +52 (492) 925-3415
>> Home: +52 (492) 768-6048
>> Mobile (Mexico): +52 1 (492) 103-0195
>> Mobile (US): (615) 649-2790
>> idiez at me.com
>> 
>> 
>> On Oct 8, 2011, at 10:01 AM, Michael McCafferty wrote:
>> 
>>> Quoting juan Vazquez <juanvazquezvaz at aol.com>:
>>> 
>>>> I need help in finding out the meaning of TLANICUILULCO........
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Nahuatl mailing list
>>>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>>>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> Juan,
>>> 
>>> This is a fun word, as it can take you in several directions. It will be interesting to see what the term means.
>>> 
>>> To me it seems to be composed of the following:
>>> 
>>> tlan(i) 'downwards' + (i)hcuilu:lo: 'it is written, painted' + -co "place".
>>> 
>>> That tlan-, of course, also looks like 'tooth'.
>>> 
>>> Monequi nimitzilhuiz ahmo nicmati inezca inin altepetocaitl.
>>> 
>>> Michael
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nahuatl mailing list
>>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nahuatl mailing list
>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
> 

_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From mmccaffe at indiana.edu  Sun Oct  9 23:42:35 2011
From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2011 19:42:35 -0400
Subject: tlanicuilulco, guerrero
In-Reply-To: <B26C77DE-16C6-48E5-AF89-4E0EB511C5B1@me.com>
Message-ID: <SUN.9.OCT.2011.194235.0400.MMCCAFFE@INDIANA.EDU>

Yes, Fran, this was one of the other avenues that occurred to me 
yesterday but i tossed it. i guess i like throwing things.

As for tlan(i) prefixed, the terms i already supplied, John, such 
tlanicahua, tlanihuah, as well as tlanitlaza, and probably others i 
can't think of, attest to this prefixing of tlan(i).

Michael


Quoting John Sullivan/IDIEZ <idiez at me.com>:

> Fran,
> 	Tlanecuilolli, ?s.t. twisted or warped,? referring to the hooked
> mountain of Colhuahcan, also fits well within the context of sacred
> landscape.
> John
>
> On Oct 9, 2011, at 4:37 PM, Frances Karttunen wrote:
>
>> OR:
>>
>> Try analyzing it as tlanecuilolco.
>>
>> The transitive verb necuiloa is in Molina.
>>
>> Fran Karttunen
>>
>> On Oct 9, 2011, at 3:12 PM, John Sullivan/IDIEZ wrote:
>>
>>> Piyali notequixpoyohuan,
>>> 	This word is made up of the noun tlanihcuilolli and the
>>> locative/place-name-maker -co (place of).
>>> Now let?s look at tlanihcuilolli. This is a verbal noun that comes
>>> from the transitive verb tlanihcuiloa. And tlanihcuiloa comes from
>>> tlantli, ?tooth? and ihcuiloa, ?to write, inscribe or paint s.t.?
>>> And ihcuiloa ultimately comes from the idea of
>>> scratching/engraving, and that may be important here. Anyway,
>>> tlantl is the object of ihcuiloa, so tlanihcuiloa mean to engrave,
>>> write, inscribe, paint a tooth. When we turn this into a passive
>>> action noun, tlantli, originally the object of the verb, becomes
>>> the focus of the noun. So tlanihcuilolli is a engraved written,
>>> inscribed or painted tooth. Perhaps the scratching thing does have
>>> importance here, because we could be talking about a geographic
>>> formation within the context of sacred landscape, that looks like a
>>> tooth, perhaps a rock formation. So it would seem that
>>> tlanihcuilolco would mean, ?place of the engraved, written,
>>> inscribed or painted tooth.? Perhaps Juan has some local cultural
>>> or geographic information that could help to narrow this down.
>>> John
>>>
>>> John Sullivan, Ph.D.
>>> Professor of Nahua language and culture
>>> Universidad Autónoma de Zacatecas
>>> Zacatecas Institute of Teaching and Research in Ethnology
>>> Tacuba 152, int. 43
>>> Centro Histórico
>>> Zacatecas, Zac. 98000
>>> Mexico
>>> Work: +52 (492) 925-3415
>>> Home: +52 (492) 768-6048
>>> Mobile (Mexico): +52 1 (492) 103-0195
>>> Mobile (US): (615) 649-2790
>>> idiez at me.com
>>>
>>>
>>> On Oct 8, 2011, at 10:01 AM, Michael McCafferty wrote:
>>>
>>>> Quoting juan Vazquez <juanvazquezvaz at aol.com>:
>>>>
>>>>> I need help in finding out the meaning of TLANICUILULCO........
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Nahuatl mailing list
>>>>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>>>>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Juan,
>>>>
>>>> This is a fun word, as it can take you in several directions. It
>>>> will be interesting to see what the term means.
>>>>
>>>> To me it seems to be composed of the following:
>>>>
>>>> tlan(i) 'downwards' + (i)hcuilu:lo: 'it is written, painted' + -co
>>>> "place".
>>>>
>>>> That tlan-, of course, also looks like 'tooth'.
>>>>
>>>> Monequi nimitzilhuiz ahmo nicmati inezca inin altepetocaitl.
>>>>
>>>> Michael
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Nahuatl mailing list
>>>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>>>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nahuatl mailing list
>>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>



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From mmccaffe at indiana.edu  Mon Oct 10 21:00:43 2011
From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 17:00:43 -0400
Subject: two questions
Message-ID: <MON.10.OCT.2011.170043.0400.MMCCAFFE@INDIANA.EDU>

Listeros ultimos,

How long has the na:huatl been used to name the language? What are 
attested names for the language through time?

How old is the expression na:huatlaca:tl ?


Anquimatih?

Tlaxtlahui,

Michael

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From swood at uoregon.edu  Thu Oct 13 16:00:12 2011
From: swood at uoregon.edu (Stephanie Wood)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2011 09:00:12 -0700
Subject: two questions
In-Reply-To: <20111010170043.1iqtmt22owwkcw8k@webmail.iu.edu>
Message-ID: <THU.13.OCT.2011.090012.0700.SWOOD@UOREGON.EDU>

Hi Michael,

Here's an attestation from our free online Nahuatl dictionary:

vevetlque yuan ocçequi tlacatl ayac quimati navatl ypanpa yuhqui yca hoca toyollo = Los principales y la demás gente no saben el náhuatl. Por eso están tristes nuestros corazones.
[Source: Nuestro pesar, nuestra aflicción / tunetuliniliz, tucucuca; Memorias en lengua náhuatl enviadas a Felipe II por indígenas del Valle de Guatemala hacia 1572, introduction by Cristopher H. Lutz, paleography and translation by Karen Dakin (México: UNAM and Centro de Investigaciones Regionales de Mesoamérica, 1996, 12-13.]

Best wishes,
Stephanie

On Oct 10, 2011, at 2:00 PM, Michael McCafferty wrote:

> Listeros ultimos,
> 
> How long has the na:huatl been used to name the language? What are attested names for the language through time?
> 
> How old is the expression na:huatlaca:tl ?
> 
> 
> Anquimatih?
> 
> Tlaxtlahui,
> 
> Michael
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
> 

Stephanie Wood, Ph.D.,
Director
Wired Humanities Projects
Knight Library
1299 University of Oregon
Eugene, Oregon 97403-1299
U.S.A.

Tel. 541-346-5771
swood at uoregon.edu
Office:
Room 142 Knight Library
Open Tues-Weds-Thurs, 10-5

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From szakaib at gmail.com  Mon Oct 17 14:09:37 2011
From: szakaib at gmail.com (Susan Zakaib)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2011 16:09:37 +0200
Subject: Daniel Brinton's papers
Message-ID: <MON.17.OCT.2011.160937.0200.SZAKAIB@GMAIL.COM>

Piyali Listeros,

This might be a bit of a long shot, but do any of you happen to know
where Daniel Garrison Brinton's personal papers have ended up? A
fellow grad student and friend of mine is trying to track them down,
but so far she's hit only dead ends. Any tips would be much
appreciated!

Saludos,
Susan
_______________________________________________
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Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From CKolb at neh.gov  Mon Oct 17 15:44:48 2011
From: CKolb at neh.gov (Kolb, Charles)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2011 11:44:48 -0400
Subject: Daniel Brinton's papers
In-Reply-To: <CAGbLvWm_sthfWwyU7YhKLjpr9pEL8q9D1oi2+GaxTafRxU+VTw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <MON.17.OCT.2011.114448.0400.CKOLB@NEH.GOV>

University of Pennsylvania Museum of Archaeology and Ethnology.  Finding
aid:
http://repository.upenn.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1019&context=lib
rary_papers&sei-redir=1&referer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Furl%3Fsa%3
Dt%26source%3Dweb%26cd%3D1%26sqi%3D2%26ved%3D0CB0QFjAA%26url%3Dhttp%253A
%252F%252Frepository.upenn.edu%252Fcgi%252Fviewcontent.cgi%253Farticle%2
53D1019%2526context%253Dlibrary_papers%26rct%3Dj%26q%3DDaniel%2520Brinto
n%2520papers%26ei%3D_kycTtmaE-j10gGA_ZDoBA%26usg%3DAFQjCNHrTUhSppN7EsdL1
bUuOw7jcoloqA#search=%22Daniel%20Brinton%20papers%22 

-----Original Message-----
From: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org
[mailto:nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org] On Behalf Of Susan Zakaib
Sent: Monday, October 17, 2011 10:10 AM
To: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
Subject: [Nahuat-l] Daniel Brinton's papers

Piyali Listeros,

This might be a bit of a long shot, but do any of you happen to know
where Daniel Garrison Brinton's personal papers have ended up? A fellow
grad student and friend of mine is trying to track them down, but so far
she's hit only dead ends. Any tips would be much appreciated!

Saludos,
Susan
_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl

_______________________________________________
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Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx  Tue Oct 18 00:57:22 2011
From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2011 19:57:22 -0500
Subject: Daniel Brinton's papers
In-Reply-To: <25CC02C906603E4AA304B9295722DE1A04E13695@owa.neh.gov>
Message-ID: <MON.17.OCT.2011.195722.0500.DCWRIGHT@PRODIGY.NET.MX>

Ain't this list great?

There's also a 455 page catalog, published in 2002 and available on line:

http://www.library.upenn.edu/eresources/brinton.pdf

Saludos,

David

-----Mensaje original-----
De: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org [mailto:nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org]
En nombre de Kolb, Charles
Enviado el: lunes, 17 de octubre de 2011 10:45
Para: Susan Zakaib; nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
Asunto: Re: [Nahuat-l] Daniel Brinton's papers

University of Pennsylvania Museum of Archaeology and Ethnology.  Finding
aid:
http://repository.upenn.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1019&context=lib
rary_papers&sei-redir=1&referer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Furl%3Fsa%3
Dt%26source%3Dweb%26cd%3D1%26sqi%3D2%26ved%3D0CB0QFjAA%26url%3Dhttp%253A
%252F%252Frepository.upenn.edu%252Fcgi%252Fviewcontent.cgi%253Farticle%2
53D1019%2526context%253Dlibrary_papers%26rct%3Dj%26q%3DDaniel%2520Brinto
n%2520papers%26ei%3D_kycTtmaE-j10gGA_ZDoBA%26usg%3DAFQjCNHrTUhSppN7EsdL1
bUuOw7jcoloqA#search=%22Daniel%20Brinton%20papers%22 

-----Original Message-----
From: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org
[mailto:nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org] On Behalf Of Susan Zakaib
Sent: Monday, October 17, 2011 10:10 AM
To: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
Subject: [Nahuat-l] Daniel Brinton's papers

Piyali Listeros,

This might be a bit of a long shot, but do any of you happen to know
where Daniel Garrison Brinton's personal papers have ended up? A fellow
grad student and friend of mine is trying to track them down, but so far
she's hit only dead ends. Any tips would be much appreciated!

Saludos,
Susan
_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl

_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl

_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From szakaib at gmail.com  Tue Oct 18 14:50:38 2011
From: szakaib at gmail.com (Susan Zakaib)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2011 16:50:38 +0200
Subject: Daniel Brinton's papers
In-Reply-To: <002601cc8d30$e4fd8bb0$aef8a310$@net.mx>
Message-ID: <TUE.18.OCT.2011.165038.0200.SZAKAIB@GMAIL.COM>

Unfortunately, it turns out the collection at Penn might not have what
my friend is looking for. However, I also received a couple of
off-list responses suggesting she check out some of his other papers
at the American Philosophical Library and the Brooklyn Museum, which
could definitely be useful leads.

This list is great, indeed--tlazcamati miac, everyone! And if anyone
has any other suggestions, please let me know.

Saludos,
Susan


On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 2:57 AM, David Wright <dcwright at prodigy.net.mx> wrote:
> Ain't this list great?
>
> There's also a 455 page catalog, published in 2002 and available on line:
>
> http://www.library.upenn.edu/eresources/brinton.pdf
>
> Saludos,
>
> David
>
> -----Mensaje original-----
> De: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org [mailto:nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org]
> En nombre de Kolb, Charles
> Enviado el: lunes, 17 de octubre de 2011 10:45
> Para: Susan Zakaib; nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> Asunto: Re: [Nahuat-l] Daniel Brinton's papers
>
> University of Pennsylvania Museum of Archaeology and Ethnology.  Finding
> aid:
> http://repository.upenn.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1019&context=lib
> rary_papers&sei-redir=1&referer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Furl%3Fsa%3
> Dt%26source%3Dweb%26cd%3D1%26sqi%3D2%26ved%3D0CB0QFjAA%26url%3Dhttp%253A
> %252F%252Frepository.upenn.edu%252Fcgi%252Fviewcontent.cgi%253Farticle%2
> 53D1019%2526context%253Dlibrary_papers%26rct%3Dj%26q%3DDaniel%2520Brinto
> n%2520papers%26ei%3D_kycTtmaE-j10gGA_ZDoBA%26usg%3DAFQjCNHrTUhSppN7EsdL1
> bUuOw7jcoloqA#search=%22Daniel%20Brinton%20papers%22
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org
> [mailto:nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org] On Behalf Of Susan Zakaib
> Sent: Monday, October 17, 2011 10:10 AM
> To: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> Subject: [Nahuat-l] Daniel Brinton's papers
>
> Piyali Listeros,
>
> This might be a bit of a long shot, but do any of you happen to know
> where Daniel Garrison Brinton's personal papers have ended up? A fellow
> grad student and friend of mine is trying to track them down, but so far
> she's hit only dead ends. Any tips would be much appreciated!
>
> Saludos,
> Susan
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>
_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From schwallr at potsdam.edu  Thu Oct 27 15:32:35 2011
From: schwallr at potsdam.edu (John F. Schwaller)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2011 11:32:35 -0400
Subject: Fwd: Nahua Newsletter, number 50, October 2011
In-Reply-To: <4EA930CB020000F9000934E4@gwia6.ipfw.edu>
Message-ID: <THU.27.OCT.2011.113235.0400.SCHWALLR@POTSDAM.EDU>

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: 	Nahua Newsletter, number 50, October 2011
Date: 	27 Oct 2011 10:22:03 -0400
From: 	Alan Sandstrom <sandstro at ipfw.edu>
To: 	..list suppressed..



Dear /NN/ readers,
       The current issue of the /Nahua Newsletter/, number 50, October 2011, is 
now available at http://www.nahuanewsletter.org/.  Hope you enjoy the issue and 
we look forward to hearing from you.
All the best,
Alan R. Sandstrom,
Nahua Newsletter editor
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From idiez at me.com  Thu Oct 27 20:46:50 2011
From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2011 15:46:50 -0500
Subject: Ethnohistory session in Nahuatl on deities
Message-ID: <THU.27.OCT.2011.154650.0500.IDIEZ@ME.COM>

Piyali notequixpoyohuan,
	Five of the researchers at IDIEZ held a discussion in Nahuatl on deities at the Ethnohistory conference in Pasadena last week. Each section of the panel is followed by a short summary in English and there is a question and answer session at the end. Here is the Dropbox link to download the audio recording of the entire session. It’s a bit big, 97 MB. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/15911797/Pasadena20111021.mp3
John
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From micc2 at cox.net  Thu Oct 27 22:05:28 2011
From: micc2 at cox.net (Mario E. Aguilar)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2011 15:05:28 -0700
Subject: Ethnohistory session in Nahuatl on deities
In-Reply-To: <BD2D864F-3458-46AE-95F3-FD27F85C56E3@me.com>
Message-ID: <THU.27.OCT.2011.150528.0700.MICC2@COX.NET>

Ninequi tinechītlaniliā achiyoc!!!!!!

I live for reasoned, enlightened spirituality:

"Tlacecelilli", tranquilidad, paz


Mario E. Aguilar, PhD

www.mexicayotl.net
www.aguila-blanca.com


On 10/27/2011 1:46 PM, John Sullivan wrote:
> Piyali notequixpoyohuan,
> 	Five of the researchers at IDIEZ held a discussion in Nahuatl on deities at the Ethnohistory conference in Pasadena last week. Each section of the panel is followed by a short summary in English and there is a question and answer session at the end. Here is the Dropbox link to download the audio recording of the entire session. It’s a bit big, 97 MB. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/15911797/Pasadena20111021.mp3
> John
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>
>

_______________________________________________
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Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
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From a.appleyard at btinternet.com  Fri Oct 28 04:47:21 2011
From: a.appleyard at btinternet.com (ANTHONY APPLEYARD)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2011 05:47:21 +0100
Subject: Ethnohistory session in Nahuatl on deities
In-Reply-To: <BD2D864F-3458-46AE-95F3-FD27F85C56E3@me.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.28.OCT.2011.054721.0100.A.APPLEYARD@BTINTERNET.COM>

Please, is a text transcription of this discussion available? With translation?

Citlalyani.

--- On Thu, 27/10/11, John Sullivan <idiez at me.com> wrote:

From: John Sullivan <idiez at me.com>
Subject: [Nahuat-l] Ethnohistory session in Nahuatl on deities
To: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
Date: Thursday, 27 October, 2011, 21:46

Piyali notequixpoyohuan,
    Five of the researchers at IDIEZ held a discussion in Nahuatl on deities at the Ethnohistory conference in Pasadena last week. Each section of the panel is followed by a short summary in English and there is a question and answer session at the end. Here is the Dropbox link to download the audio recording of the entire session. It’s a bit big, 97 MB. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/15911797/Pasadena20111021.mp3
John
_______________________________________________
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From idiez at me.com  Fri Oct 28 13:45:38 2011
From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2011 08:45:38 -0500
Subject: Ethnohistory session in Nahuatl on deities
In-Reply-To: <1319777241.35915.YahooMailClassic@web86702.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.28.OCT.2011.084538.0500.IDIEZ@ME.COM>

Piyali Anthony,
	We are working on the transcription and translation right now.
John

On Oct 27, 2011, at 11:47 PM, ANTHONY APPLEYARD wrote:

> Please, is a text transcription of this discussion available? With translation?
> 
> Citlalyani.
> 
> --- On Thu, 27/10/11, John Sullivan <idiez at me.com> wrote:
> 
> From: John Sullivan <idiez at me.com>
> Subject: [Nahuat-l] Ethnohistory session in Nahuatl on deities
> To: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> Date: Thursday, 27 October, 2011, 21:46
> 
> Piyali notequixpoyohuan,
>     Five of the researchers at IDIEZ held a discussion in Nahuatl on deities at the Ethnohistory conference in Pasadena last week. Each section of the panel is followed by a short summary in English and there is a question and answer session at the end. Here is the Dropbox link to download the audio recording of the entire session. It’s a bit big, 97 MB. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/15911797/Pasadena20111021.mp3
> John
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl

_______________________________________________
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From hawatari21centuries at gmail.com  Sun Oct 30 09:58:22 2011
From: hawatari21centuries at gmail.com (SASAKI Mitsuya)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2011 18:58:22 +0900
Subject: The verb CEQUI in Karttunen's dictionary
Message-ID: <SUN.30.OCT.2011.185822.0900.HAWATARI21CENTURIES@GMAIL.COM>

Nocnihuane,

Some of you might have noticed that the verb form CEQU(I) "to toast 
something" in Karttunen's Analytical Dictionary doesn't have 
corresponding entries in Molina's and Siméon's dictionaries.

In fact, Molina and Siméon both have ICEQUI "to toast maize etc.", 
probably "i" being an epenthetic vowel preceding a saltillo (IHCEQUI). 
Andrews' Introduction (p. 70 in the rev. ed.) and Wimmer's Online 
Nahuatl dictionary correctly contain IHCEQUI.

Corresponding to this, you can find "teycequjaia" and "quiceqia" in the 
Florentine Codex (Book 3, Ch. 11, p. 31 in Anderson & Dibble ver.), both 
with the meaning "to toast (maize)". The "y" in "teycequjaia" can 
properly predicted by assuming the form IHCEQUI.

I'm not sure if it's Karttunen's error (I've yet to check her source, 
Brewer&Brewer's Tetelcingo Nahuatl dictionary), but I thought I'd post 
anyway in case someone gets in trouble while reading Nahuatl texts, for 
Karttunen's dictionary doesn't contain IHCEQUI.

Thanks,
Mitsuya SASAKI
The Department of Linguistics, the University of Tokyo
ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp
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From idiez at me.com  Sun Oct 30 14:43:47 2011
From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2011 09:43:47 -0500
Subject: The verb CEQUI in Karttunen's dictionary
In-Reply-To: <4EAD1FBE.1020200@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SUN.30.OCT.2011.094347.0500.IDIEZ@ME.COM>

Piyali Mitsuya,
	I’m sure the reason “ihcequi” is not in Fran’s dictionary is that the word does not appear in the corpus upon which her work is based. Joe Campbell and I are at the Notre Dame STLILLA conference right now and I’m sure that sometime today (when he wakes up) he’ll post the attestations of “ihcequi” found in his corpus. I would just like to say two things. First, “ihcequi,” which is both intransitive and transitive, suspiciously resembles “iucci,” “for s.t. to ripen or be cooked.” both in sound and meaning, although the morphology is probably different. 2. the form “teihcequiaya” is very strange. What is that “te-”? Are we really dealing with an applicative form of “ihcequi” (ihcequia), having now two objects and conjugated in the imperfect“? The resulting “teihcequiaya” meaning “to toast it for someone”? Or are we dealing with the peripheral imperative suffix “yaya”? But then the verb would only be intransitive or transitive (with one object), so what would the “te-” refer to?
John

John Sullivan, Ph.D.
Professor of Nahua language and culture
Universidad Autónoma de Zacatecas
Zacatecas Institute of Teaching and Research in Ethnology
Tacuba 152, int. 43
Centro Histórico
Zacatecas, Zac. 98000
Mexico
Work: +52 (492) 925-3415
Home: +52 (492) 768-6048
Mobile (Mexico): +52 1 (492) 103-0195
Mobile (US): (615) 649-2790
idiez at me.com

On Oct 30, 2011, at 4:58 AM, SASAKI Mitsuya wrote:

> Nocnihuane,
> 
> Some of you might have noticed that the verb form CEQU(I) "to toast something" in Karttunen's Analytical Dictionary doesn't have corresponding entries in Molina's and Siméon's dictionaries.
> 
> In fact, Molina and Siméon both have ICEQUI "to toast maize etc.", probably "i" being an epenthetic vowel preceding a saltillo (IHCEQUI). Andrews' Introduction (p. 70 in the rev. ed.) and Wimmer's Online Nahuatl dictionary correctly contain IHCEQUI.
> 
> Corresponding to this, you can find "teycequjaia" and "quiceqia" in the Florentine Codex (Book 3, Ch. 11, p. 31 in Anderson & Dibble ver.), both with the meaning "to toast (maize)". The "y" in "teycequjaia" can properly predicted by assuming the form IHCEQUI.
> 
> I'm not sure if it's Karttunen's error (I've yet to check her source, Brewer&Brewer's Tetelcingo Nahuatl dictionary), but I thought I'd post anyway in case someone gets in trouble while reading Nahuatl texts, for Karttunen's dictionary doesn't contain IHCEQUI.
> 
> Thanks,
> Mitsuya SASAKI
> The Department of Linguistics, the University of Tokyo
> ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl





_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From mmccaffe at indiana.edu  Sun Oct 30 14:56:14 2011
From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2011 10:56:14 -0400
Subject: The verb CEQUI in Karttunen's dictionary
In-Reply-To: <EFF580BA-C202-450F-BC46-807B5C788F93@me.com>
Message-ID: <SUN.30.OCT.2011.105614.0400.MMCCAFFE@INDIANA.EDU>

The te- could be te:tl.



Quoting John Sullivan <idiez at me.com>:

> Piyali Mitsuya,
> 	I?m sure the reason ?ihcequi? is not in Fran?s dictionary is that
> the word does not appear in the corpus upon which her work is based.
> Joe Campbell and I are at the Notre Dame STLILLA conference right now
> and I?m sure that sometime today (when he wakes up) he?ll post the
> attestations of ?ihcequi? found in his corpus. I would just like to
> say two things. First, ?ihcequi,? which is both intransitive and
> transitive, suspiciously resembles ?iucci,? ?for s.t. to ripen or be
> cooked.? both in sound and meaning, although the morphology is
> probably different. 2. the form ?teihcequiaya? is very strange. What
> is that ?te-?? Are we really dealing with an applicative form of
> ?ihcequi? (ihcequia), having now two objects and conjugated in the
> imperfect?? The resulting ?teihcequiaya? meaning ?to toast it for
> someone?? Or are we dealing with the peripheral imperative suffix
> ?yaya?? But then the verb would only be intransitive or transitive
> (with one object), so what would the ?te-? refer to?
> John
>
> John Sullivan, Ph.D.
> Professor of Nahua language and culture
> Universidad Autónoma de Zacatecas
> Zacatecas Institute of Teaching and Research in Ethnology
> Tacuba 152, int. 43
> Centro Histórico
> Zacatecas, Zac. 98000
> Mexico
> Work: +52 (492) 925-3415
> Home: +52 (492) 768-6048
> Mobile (Mexico): +52 1 (492) 103-0195
> Mobile (US): (615) 649-2790
> idiez at me.com
>
> On Oct 30, 2011, at 4:58 AM, SASAKI Mitsuya wrote:
>
>> Nocnihuane,
>>
>> Some of you might have noticed that the verb form CEQU(I) "to toast
>> something" in Karttunen's Analytical Dictionary doesn't have
>> corresponding entries in Molina's and Siméon's dictionaries.
>>
>> In fact, Molina and Siméon both have ICEQUI "to toast maize etc.",
>> probably "i" being an epenthetic vowel preceding a saltillo
>> (IHCEQUI). Andrews' Introduction (p. 70 in the rev. ed.) and
>> Wimmer's Online Nahuatl dictionary correctly contain IHCEQUI.
>>
>> Corresponding to this, you can find "teycequjaia" and "quiceqia" in
>> the Florentine Codex (Book 3, Ch. 11, p. 31 in Anderson & Dibble
>> ver.), both with the meaning "to toast (maize)". The "y" in
>> "teycequjaia" can properly predicted by assuming the form IHCEQUI.
>>
>> I'm not sure if it's Karttunen's error (I've yet to check her
>> source, Brewer&Brewer's Tetelcingo Nahuatl dictionary), but I
>> thought I'd post anyway in case someone gets in trouble while
>> reading Nahuatl texts, for Karttunen's dictionary doesn't contain
>> IHCEQUI.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Mitsuya SASAKI
>> The Department of Linguistics, the University of Tokyo
>> ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nahuatl mailing list
>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>



_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From hawatari21centuries at gmail.com  Mon Oct 31 01:12:09 2011
From: hawatari21centuries at gmail.com (SASAKI Mitsuya)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2011 10:12:09 +0900
Subject: The verb CEQUI in Karttunen's dictionary
In-Reply-To: <EFF580BA-C202-450F-BC46-807B5C788F93@me.com>
Message-ID: <MON.31.OCT.2011.101209.0900.HAWATARI21CENTURIES@GMAIL.COM>

Piyali, Johntzine, Michaeltzine,

Thanks. You made me realize that I underestimated how difficult this 
verb was, and I didn't notice that it resembles IUCCI.

As you pointed out, the problem of this strange ending "-yaya" (or 
"ia:ya"?) remains even if we assume it's in the imperfect form.
I'm afraid that if "te" is the incorporated form of "tetl", this verb 
should have been "te-hcequi-..." without the "i", if this verb really 
has an epenthetic "i" and a saltillo.
In both cases, as John said, the valency and the ending are still 
problematic. It's also strange that this verb is used only infrequently 
in the text.

Mitsuya

Mitsuya SASAKI
The Department of Linguistics, the University of Tokyo
ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp

(2011/10/30 23:43), John Sullivan wrote:
> Piyali Mitsuya,
> I’m sure the reason “ihcequi” is not in Fran’s dictionary is that the
> word does not appear in the corpus upon which her work is based. Joe
> Campbell and I are at the Notre Dame STLILLA conference right now and
> I’m sure that sometime today (when he wakes up) he’ll post the
> attestations of “ihcequi” found in his corpus. I would just like to say
> two things. First, “ihcequi,” which is both intransitive and transitive,
> suspiciously resembles “iucci,” “for s.t. to ripen or be cooked.” both
> in sound and meaning, although the morphology is probably different. 2.
> the form “teihcequiaya” is very strange. What is that “te-”? Are we
> really dealing with an applicative form of “ihcequi” (ihcequia), having
> now two objects and conjugated in the imperfect“? The resulting
> “teihcequiaya” meaning “to toast it for someone”? Or are we dealing with
> the peripheral imperative suffix “yaya”? But then the verb would only be
> intransitive or transitive (with one object), so what would the “te-”
> refer to?
> John
>
> John Sullivan, Ph.D.
> Professor of Nahua language and culture
> Universidad Autónoma de Zacatecas
> Zacatecas Institute of Teaching and Research in Ethnology
> Tacuba 152, int. 43
> Centro Histórico
> Zacatecas, Zac. 98000
> Mexico
> Work: +52 (492) 925-3415
> Home: +52 (492) 768-6048
> Mobile (Mexico): +52 1 (492) 103-0195
> Mobile (US): (615) 649-2790
> idiez at me.com <mailto:idiez at me.com>
>
> On Oct 30, 2011, at 4:58 AM, SASAKI Mitsuya wrote:
>
>> Nocnihuane,
>>
>> Some of you might have noticed that the verb form CEQU(I) "to toast
>> something" in Karttunen's Analytical Dictionary doesn't have
>> corresponding entries in Molina's and Siméon's dictionaries.
>>
>> In fact, Molina and Siméon both have ICEQUI "to toast maize etc.",
>> probably "i" being an epenthetic vowel preceding a saltillo (IHCEQUI).
>> Andrews' Introduction (p. 70 in the rev. ed.) and Wimmer's Online
>> Nahuatl dictionary correctly contain IHCEQUI.
>>
>> Corresponding to this, you can find "teycequjaia" and "quiceqia" in
>> the Florentine Codex (Book 3, Ch. 11, p. 31 in Anderson & Dibble
>> ver.), both with the meaning "to toast (maize)". The "y" in
>> "teycequjaia" can properly predicted by assuming the form IHCEQUI.
>>
>> I'm not sure if it's Karttunen's error (I've yet to check her source,
>> Brewer&Brewer's Tetelcingo Nahuatl dictionary), but I thought I'd post
>> anyway in case someone gets in trouble while reading Nahuatl texts,
>> for Karttunen's dictionary doesn't contain IHCEQUI.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Mitsuya SASAKI
>> The Department of Linguistics, the University of Tokyo
>> ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp <mailto:ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nahuatl mailing list
>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>
>
>
>
>

_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From idiez at me.com  Mon Oct 31 02:36:08 2011
From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2011 22:36:08 -0400
Subject: The verb CEQUI in Karttunen's dictionary
In-Reply-To: <4EADF5E9.3020204@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SUN.30.OCT.2011.223608.0400.IDIEZ@ME.COM>

Mitsuya,
	I don’t think the te- is from tetl. This could only be the case if tetl is an incorporated noun working as an adverb of place, as in “to toast s.t. on a rock.” But this kind of incorporated adverb (of place) is very rare, or perhaps non-existent. I really think we‘re dealing with the applicative form of the verb, producing two objects. And the te- would then be the most animate of those objects, the human, non-specific object.
John

On Oct 30, 2011, at 9:12 PM, SASAKI Mitsuya wrote:

> Piyali, Johntzine, Michaeltzine,
> 
> Thanks. You made me realize that I underestimated how difficult this verb was, and I didn't notice that it resembles IUCCI.
> 
> As you pointed out, the problem of this strange ending "-yaya" (or "ia:ya"?) remains even if we assume it's in the imperfect form.
> I'm afraid that if "te" is the incorporated form of "tetl", this verb should have been "te-hcequi-..." without the "i", if this verb really has an epenthetic "i" and a saltillo.
> In both cases, as John said, the valency and the ending are still problematic. It's also strange that this verb is used only infrequently in the text.
> 
> Mitsuya
> 
> Mitsuya SASAKI
> The Department of Linguistics, the University of Tokyo
> ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp
> 
> (2011/10/30 23:43), John Sullivan wrote:
>> Piyali Mitsuya,
>> I’m sure the reason “ihcequi” is not in Fran’s dictionary is that the
>> word does not appear in the corpus upon which her work is based. Joe
>> Campbell and I are at the Notre Dame STLILLA conference right now and
>> I’m sure that sometime today (when he wakes up) he’ll post the
>> attestations of “ihcequi” found in his corpus. I would just like to say
>> two things. First, “ihcequi,” which is both intransitive and transitive,
>> suspiciously resembles “iucci,” “for s.t. to ripen or be cooked.” both
>> in sound and meaning, although the morphology is probably different. 2.
>> the form “teihcequiaya” is very strange. What is that “te-”? Are we
>> really dealing with an applicative form of “ihcequi” (ihcequia), having
>> now two objects and conjugated in the imperfect“? The resulting
>> “teihcequiaya” meaning “to toast it for someone”? Or are we dealing with
>> the peripheral imperative suffix “yaya”? But then the verb would only be
>> intransitive or transitive (with one object), so what would the “te-”
>> refer to?
>> John
>> 
>> John Sullivan, Ph.D.
>> Professor of Nahua language and culture
>> Universidad Autónoma de Zacatecas
>> Zacatecas Institute of Teaching and Research in Ethnology
>> Tacuba 152, int. 43
>> Centro Histórico
>> Zacatecas, Zac. 98000
>> Mexico
>> Work: +52 (492) 925-3415
>> Home: +52 (492) 768-6048
>> Mobile (Mexico): +52 1 (492) 103-0195
>> Mobile (US): (615) 649-2790
>> idiez at me.com <mailto:idiez at me.com>
>> 
>> On Oct 30, 2011, at 4:58 AM, SASAKI Mitsuya wrote:
>> 
>>> Nocnihuane,
>>> 
>>> Some of you might have noticed that the verb form CEQU(I) "to toast
>>> something" in Karttunen's Analytical Dictionary doesn't have
>>> corresponding entries in Molina's and Siméon's dictionaries.
>>> 
>>> In fact, Molina and Siméon both have ICEQUI "to toast maize etc.",
>>> probably "i" being an epenthetic vowel preceding a saltillo (IHCEQUI).
>>> Andrews' Introduction (p. 70 in the rev. ed.) and Wimmer's Online
>>> Nahuatl dictionary correctly contain IHCEQUI.
>>> 
>>> Corresponding to this, you can find "teycequjaia" and "quiceqia" in
>>> the Florentine Codex (Book 3, Ch. 11, p. 31 in Anderson & Dibble
>>> ver.), both with the meaning "to toast (maize)". The "y" in
>>> "teycequjaia" can properly predicted by assuming the form IHCEQUI.
>>> 
>>> I'm not sure if it's Karttunen's error (I've yet to check her source,
>>> Brewer&Brewer's Tetelcingo Nahuatl dictionary), but I thought I'd post
>>> anyway in case someone gets in trouble while reading Nahuatl texts,
>>> for Karttunen's dictionary doesn't contain IHCEQUI.
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> Mitsuya SASAKI
>>> The Department of Linguistics, the University of Tokyo
>>> ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp <mailto:ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nahuatl mailing list
>>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl

_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From hawatari21centuries at gmail.com  Mon Oct 31 02:48:27 2011
From: hawatari21centuries at gmail.com (SASAKI Mitsuya)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2011 11:48:27 +0900
Subject: The verb CEQUI in Karttunen's dictionary
In-Reply-To: <883E9125-E6B2-4792-A7BE-EC0E89665B51@me.com>
Message-ID: <MON.31.OCT.2011.114827.0900.HAWATARI21CENTURIES@GMAIL.COM>

John,

I agree. If we assume te:- for this "TE", the following "i" is correctly 
predicted. "Teicequiaya" here is used without any overt object noun, so 
the only possible interpretation of this verb would be 
te:(NonspecO)-(i)hcequia:-ya(IMPF),
the stem (i)hcequia: being a monotransitive applicative-like verb ending 
in -ia:, meaning kind of "toast (maize) for s.o."

Mitsuya SASAKI
The Department of Linguistics, the University of Tokyo
ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp

(2011/10/31 11:36), John Sullivan wrote:
> Mitsuya,
> 	I don’t think the te- is from tetl. This could only be the case if tetl is an incorporated noun working as an adverb of place, as in “to toast s.t. on a rock.” But this kind of incorporated adverb (of place) is very rare, or perhaps non-existent. I really think we‘re dealing with the applicative form of the verb, producing two objects. And the te- would then be the most animate of those objects, the human, non-specific object.
> John
>
> On Oct 30, 2011, at 9:12 PM, SASAKI Mitsuya wrote:
>
>> Piyali, Johntzine, Michaeltzine,
>>
>> Thanks. You made me realize that I underestimated how difficult this verb was, and I didn't notice that it resembles IUCCI.
>>
>> As you pointed out, the problem of this strange ending "-yaya" (or "ia:ya"?) remains even if we assume it's in the imperfect form.
>> I'm afraid that if "te" is the incorporated form of "tetl", this verb should have been "te-hcequi-..." without the "i", if this verb really has an epenthetic "i" and a saltillo.
>> In both cases, as John said, the valency and the ending are still problematic. It's also strange that this verb is used only infrequently in the text.
>>
>> Mitsuya
>>
>> Mitsuya SASAKI
>> The Department of Linguistics, the University of Tokyo
>> ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp
>>
>> (2011/10/30 23:43), John Sullivan wrote:
>>> Piyali Mitsuya,
>>> I’m sure the reason “ihcequi” is not in Fran’s dictionary is that the
>>> word does not appear in the corpus upon which her work is based. Joe
>>> Campbell and I are at the Notre Dame STLILLA conference right now and
>>> I’m sure that sometime today (when he wakes up) he’ll post the
>>> attestations of “ihcequi” found in his corpus. I would just like to say
>>> two things. First, “ihcequi,” which is both intransitive and transitive,
>>> suspiciously resembles “iucci,” “for s.t. to ripen or be cooked.” both
>>> in sound and meaning, although the morphology is probably different. 2.
>>> the form “teihcequiaya” is very strange. What is that “te-”? Are we
>>> really dealing with an applicative form of “ihcequi” (ihcequia), having
>>> now two objects and conjugated in the imperfect“? The resulting
>>> “teihcequiaya” meaning “to toast it for someone”? Or are we dealing with
>>> the peripheral imperative suffix “yaya”? But then the verb would only be
>>> intransitive or transitive (with one object), so what would the “te-”
>>> refer to?
>>> John
>>>
>>> John Sullivan, Ph.D.
>>> Professor of Nahua language and culture
>>> Universidad Autónoma de Zacatecas
>>> Zacatecas Institute of Teaching and Research in Ethnology
>>> Tacuba 152, int. 43
>>> Centro Histórico
>>> Zacatecas, Zac. 98000
>>> Mexico
>>> Work: +52 (492) 925-3415
>>> Home: +52 (492) 768-6048
>>> Mobile (Mexico): +52 1 (492) 103-0195
>>> Mobile (US): (615) 649-2790
>>> idiez at me.com<mailto:idiez at me.com>
>>>
>>> On Oct 30, 2011, at 4:58 AM, SASAKI Mitsuya wrote:
>>>
>>>> Nocnihuane,
>>>>
>>>> Some of you might have noticed that the verb form CEQU(I) "to toast
>>>> something" in Karttunen's Analytical Dictionary doesn't have
>>>> corresponding entries in Molina's and Siméon's dictionaries.
>>>>
>>>> In fact, Molina and Siméon both have ICEQUI "to toast maize etc.",
>>>> probably "i" being an epenthetic vowel preceding a saltillo (IHCEQUI).
>>>> Andrews' Introduction (p. 70 in the rev. ed.) and Wimmer's Online
>>>> Nahuatl dictionary correctly contain IHCEQUI.
>>>>
>>>> Corresponding to this, you can find "teycequjaia" and "quiceqia" in
>>>> the Florentine Codex (Book 3, Ch. 11, p. 31 in Anderson&  Dibble
>>>> ver.), both with the meaning "to toast (maize)". The "y" in
>>>> "teycequjaia" can properly predicted by assuming the form IHCEQUI.
>>>>
>>>> I'm not sure if it's Karttunen's error (I've yet to check her source,
>>>> Brewer&Brewer's Tetelcingo Nahuatl dictionary), but I thought I'd post
>>>> anyway in case someone gets in trouble while reading Nahuatl texts,
>>>> for Karttunen's dictionary doesn't contain IHCEQUI.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Mitsuya SASAKI
>>>> The Department of Linguistics, the University of Tokyo
>>>> ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp<mailto:ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Nahuatl mailing list
>>>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>>>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nahuatl mailing list
>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>

_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From jdanahuatl at gmail.com  Mon Oct 31 04:10:14 2011
From: jdanahuatl at gmail.com (Jonathan Amith)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2011 00:10:14 -0400
Subject: The verb CEQUI in Karttunen's dictionary
In-Reply-To: <883E9125-E6B2-4792-A7BE-EC0E89665B51@me.com>
Message-ID: <MON.31.OCT.2011.001014.0400.JDANAHUATL@GMAIL.COM>

Dear all,

I only have the verb as a transitive k-ihseki referring to the action of
toasting (grains particularly) on top of a clay griddle (comal). The
applicative in Balsas Nahuatl would be ihsekilia. It can refer to maize but
also to other seeds such as guajes (Leucaena spp.), some beans (e.g.,
locally, white beans), and squash seeds.

What is the full citation of text from the Florentine Codex?
Best, Jonathan
On Sun, Oct 30, 2011 at 10:36 PM, John Sullivan <idiez at me.com> wrote:

> Mitsuya,
>        I don’t think the te- is from tetl. This could only be the case if
> tetl is an incorporated noun working as an adverb of place, as in “to toast
> s.t. on a rock.” But this kind of incorporated adverb (of place) is very
> rare, or perhaps non-existent. I really think we‘re dealing with the
> applicative form of the verb, producing two objects. And the te- would then
> be the most animate of those objects, the human, non-specific object.
> John
>
> On Oct 30, 2011, at 9:12 PM, SASAKI Mitsuya wrote:
>
> > Piyali, Johntzine, Michaeltzine,
> >
> > Thanks. You made me realize that I underestimated how difficult this
> verb was, and I didn't notice that it resembles IUCCI.
> >
> > As you pointed out, the problem of this strange ending "-yaya" (or
> "ia:ya"?) remains even if we assume it's in the imperfect form.
> > I'm afraid that if "te" is the incorporated form of "tetl", this verb
> should have been "te-hcequi-..." without the "i", if this verb really has
> an epenthetic "i" and a saltillo.
> > In both cases, as John said, the valency and the ending are still
> problematic. It's also strange that this verb is used only infrequently in
> the text.
> >
> > Mitsuya
> >
> > Mitsuya SASAKI
> > The Department of Linguistics, the University of Tokyo
> > ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp
> >
> > (2011/10/30 23:43), John Sullivan wrote:
> >> Piyali Mitsuya,
> >> I’m sure the reason “ihcequi” is not in Fran’s dictionary is that the
> >> word does not appear in the corpus upon which her work is based. Joe
> >> Campbell and I are at the Notre Dame STLILLA conference right now and
> >> I’m sure that sometime today (when he wakes up) he’ll post the
> >> attestations of “ihcequi” found in his corpus. I would just like to say
> >> two things. First, “ihcequi,” which is both intransitive and transitive,
> >> suspiciously resembles “iucci,” “for s.t. to ripen or be cooked.” both
> >> in sound and meaning, although the morphology is probably different. 2.
> >> the form “teihcequiaya” is very strange. What is that “te-”? Are we
> >> really dealing with an applicative form of “ihcequi” (ihcequia), having
> >> now two objects and conjugated in the imperfect“? The resulting
> >> “teihcequiaya” meaning “to toast it for someone”? Or are we dealing with
> >> the peripheral imperative suffix “yaya”? But then the verb would only be
> >> intransitive or transitive (with one object), so what would the “te-”
> >> refer to?
> >> John
> >>
> >> John Sullivan, Ph.D.
> >> Professor of Nahua language and culture
> >> Universidad Autónoma de Zacatecas
> >> Zacatecas Institute of Teaching and Research in Ethnology
> >> Tacuba 152, int. 43
> >> Centro Histórico
> >> Zacatecas, Zac. 98000
> >> Mexico
> >> Work: +52 (492) 925-3415
> >> Home: +52 (492) 768-6048
> >> Mobile (Mexico): +52 1 (492) 103-0195
> >> Mobile (US): (615) 649-2790
> >> idiez at me.com <mailto:idiez at me.com>
> >>
> >> On Oct 30, 2011, at 4:58 AM, SASAKI Mitsuya wrote:
> >>
> >>> Nocnihuane,
> >>>
> >>> Some of you might have noticed that the verb form CEQU(I) "to toast
> >>> something" in Karttunen's Analytical Dictionary doesn't have
> >>> corresponding entries in Molina's and Siméon's dictionaries.
> >>>
> >>> In fact, Molina and Siméon both have ICEQUI "to toast maize etc.",
> >>> probably "i" being an epenthetic vowel preceding a saltillo (IHCEQUI).
> >>> Andrews' Introduction (p. 70 in the rev. ed.) and Wimmer's Online
> >>> Nahuatl dictionary correctly contain IHCEQUI.
> >>>
> >>> Corresponding to this, you can find "teycequjaia" and "quiceqia" in
> >>> the Florentine Codex (Book 3, Ch. 11, p. 31 in Anderson & Dibble
> >>> ver.), both with the meaning "to toast (maize)". The "y" in
> >>> "teycequjaia" can properly predicted by assuming the form IHCEQUI.
> >>>
> >>> I'm not sure if it's Karttunen's error (I've yet to check her source,
> >>> Brewer&Brewer's Tetelcingo Nahuatl dictionary), but I thought I'd post
> >>> anyway in case someone gets in trouble while reading Nahuatl texts,
> >>> for Karttunen's dictionary doesn't contain IHCEQUI.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>> Mitsuya SASAKI
> >>> The Department of Linguistics, the University of Tokyo
> >>> ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp <mailto:
> ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Nahuatl mailing list
> >>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> >>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Nahuatl mailing list
> > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>
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From hawatari21centuries at gmail.com  Mon Oct 31 15:03:51 2011
From: hawatari21centuries at gmail.com (Mitsuya SASAKI)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 00:03:51 +0900
Subject: The verb CEQUI in Karttunen's dictionary
In-Reply-To: <AB318B2A-BE95-437F-BE11-EDDC8A7155B5@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <TUE.1.NOV.2011.000351.0900.HAWATARI21CENTURIES@GMAIL.COM>

Fran,

Thank you, and sorry for writing as if it was a shortcoming of ADN.
IH- is always problematic both semantically and morphophonologically,
and Andrews' Introduction points out that TLA- + IHCEQUI yields not
only TLAHCEQUI, but alternatively TLAIHCEQUI.
Now I wonder if the form CEQUI in Tetelcingo Nahuatl is an aphaeretic
form of IHCEQUI or it reflects the older form without the prefix IH-.

Mitsuya SASAKI
The Department of Linguistics, the University of Tokyo
ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp

(2011/10/31 22:21), Frances Karttunen wrote:
>> if this verb really has an epenthetic "i" and a saltillo.
>
> This may not be a case of epenthetic i before stem-initial saltillo.
> There is a prefixed element ih- that appears with verbs and occasionally
> adds to the basic meaning of the verb something like "upwards" (ihpo:tza
> 'to belch') but other times is completely obscure as to sense. James
> Lockhart wrote a paper about this element back in the 1970s, but I don't
> know where you might find a copy.
>
> As mentioned, the ADN only contains forms attested in sources that
> provide information about contrastive vowel length and glottal stop. So
> it does not, by a long shot, contain every entry in Molina. If the
> canonical form in ADN is repeatedly attested across several sources,
> there is no indication of source. But if it is attested infrequently or
> only in a single source, that is noted in the entry. In the case of
> cequi, it only appears in the Tetelcingo dictionary, and ihcequi is not
> attested in any of the contributing sources. Naturally, it is simple to
> extrapolate ihcequi from T. cequi.
>
> Fran Karttunen
>
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From mmccaffe at indiana.edu  Mon Oct 31 18:23:03 2011
From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2011 14:23:03 -0400
Subject: The verb CEQUI in Karttunen's dictionary
In-Reply-To: <4EAE0C7B.7030106@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <MON.31.OCT.2011.142303.0400.MMCCAFFE@INDIANA.EDU>

Quoting SASAKI Mitsuya <hawatari21centuries at gmail.com>:

> John,
>
> I agree. If we assume te:- for this "TE", the following "i" is
> correctly predicted. "Teicequiaya" here is used without any overt
> object noun, so the only possible interpretation of this verb would
> be te:(NonspecO)-(i)hcequia:-ya(IMPF),

That makes sense, Mitsuya.


> the stem (i)hcequia: being a monotransitive applicative-like verb
> ending in -ia:, meaning kind of "toast (maize) for s.o."
>
> Mitsuya SASAKI
> The Department of Linguistics, the University of Tokyo
> ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp
>
> (2011/10/31 11:36), John Sullivan wrote:
>> Mitsuya,
>> 	I don?t think the te- is from tetl. This could only be the case if
>> tetl is an incorporated noun working as an adverb of place, as in
>> ?to toast s.t. on a rock.? But this kind of incorporated adverb (of
>> place) is very rare, or perhaps non-existent. I really think we?re
>> dealing with the applicative form of the verb, producing two
>> objects. And the te- would then be the most animate of those
>> objects, the human, non-specific object.
>> John
>>
>> On Oct 30, 2011, at 9:12 PM, SASAKI Mitsuya wrote:
>>
>>> Piyali, Johntzine, Michaeltzine,
>>>
>>> Thanks. You made me realize that I underestimated how difficult
>>> this verb was, and I didn't notice that it resembles IUCCI.
>>>
>>> As you pointed out, the problem of this strange ending "-yaya" (or
>>> "ia:ya"?) remains even if we assume it's in the imperfect form.
>>> I'm afraid that if "te" is the incorporated form of "tetl", this
>>> verb should have been "te-hcequi-..." without the "i", if this verb
>>> really has an epenthetic "i" and a saltillo.
>>> In both cases, as John said, the valency and the ending are still
>>> problematic. It's also strange that this verb is used only
>>> infrequently in the text.
>>>
>>> Mitsuya
>>>
>>> Mitsuya SASAKI
>>> The Department of Linguistics, the University of Tokyo
>>> ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp
>>>
>>> (2011/10/30 23:43), John Sullivan wrote:
>>>> Piyali Mitsuya,
>>>> I?m sure the reason ?ihcequi? is not in Fran?s dictionary is that the
>>>> word does not appear in the corpus upon which her work is based. Joe
>>>> Campbell and I are at the Notre Dame STLILLA conference right now and
>>>> I?m sure that sometime today (when he wakes up) he?ll post the
>>>> attestations of ?ihcequi? found in his corpus. I would just like to say
>>>> two things. First, ?ihcequi,? which is both intransitive and transitive,
>>>> suspiciously resembles ?iucci,? ?for s.t. to ripen or be cooked.? both
>>>> in sound and meaning, although the morphology is probably different. 2.
>>>> the form ?teihcequiaya? is very strange. What is that ?te-?? Are we
>>>> really dealing with an applicative form of ?ihcequi? (ihcequia), having
>>>> now two objects and conjugated in the imperfect?? The resulting
>>>> ?teihcequiaya? meaning ?to toast it for someone?? Or are we dealing with
>>>> the peripheral imperative suffix ?yaya?? But then the verb would only be
>>>> intransitive or transitive (with one object), so what would the ?te-?
>>>> refer to?
>>>> John
>>>>
>>>> John Sullivan, Ph.D.
>>>> Professor of Nahua language and culture
>>>> Universidad Autónoma de Zacatecas
>>>> Zacatecas Institute of Teaching and Research in Ethnology
>>>> Tacuba 152, int. 43
>>>> Centro Histórico
>>>> Zacatecas, Zac. 98000
>>>> Mexico
>>>> Work: +52 (492) 925-3415
>>>> Home: +52 (492) 768-6048
>>>> Mobile (Mexico): +52 1 (492) 103-0195
>>>> Mobile (US): (615) 649-2790
>>>> idiez at me.com<mailto:idiez at me.com>
>>>>
>>>> On Oct 30, 2011, at 4:58 AM, SASAKI Mitsuya wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Nocnihuane,
>>>>>
>>>>> Some of you might have noticed that the verb form CEQU(I) "to toast
>>>>> something" in Karttunen's Analytical Dictionary doesn't have
>>>>> corresponding entries in Molina's and Siméon's dictionaries.
>>>>>
>>>>> In fact, Molina and Siméon both have ICEQUI "to toast maize etc.",
>>>>> probably "i" being an epenthetic vowel preceding a saltillo (IHCEQUI).
>>>>> Andrews' Introduction (p. 70 in the rev. ed.) and Wimmer's Online
>>>>> Nahuatl dictionary correctly contain IHCEQUI.
>>>>>
>>>>> Corresponding to this, you can find "teycequjaia" and "quiceqia" in
>>>>> the Florentine Codex (Book 3, Ch. 11, p. 31 in Anderson&  Dibble
>>>>> ver.), both with the meaning "to toast (maize)". The "y" in
>>>>> "teycequjaia" can properly predicted by assuming the form IHCEQUI.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm not sure if it's Karttunen's error (I've yet to check her source,
>>>>> Brewer&Brewer's Tetelcingo Nahuatl dictionary), but I thought I'd post
>>>>> anyway in case someone gets in trouble while reading Nahuatl texts,
>>>>> for Karttunen's dictionary doesn't contain IHCEQUI.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Mitsuya SASAKI
>>>>> The Department of Linguistics, the University of Tokyo
>>>>> ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp<mailto:ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Nahuatl mailing list
>>>>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>>>>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nahuatl mailing list
>>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>



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From schwallr at potsdam.edu  Fri Oct  7 12:59:59 2011
From: schwallr at potsdam.edu (John F. Schwaller)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2011 08:59:59 -0400
Subject: Major Aztec find at the Templo Mayor!
In-Reply-To: <21BDA66F-33F4-45CB-A1F8-D90697CB9C29@mac.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.7.OCT.2011.085959.0400.SCHWALLR@POTSDAM.EDU>

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: 	[Aztlan] Major Aztec find at the Templo Mayor!
Date: 	6 Oct 2011 22:59:04 -0500
From: 	michael ruggeri <michaelruggeri at mac.com>
To: 	aztlan at lists.famsi.org



Listeros,

Archaeologists have found a round Aztec ceremonial platform with 19 stone serpents heads at the Templo Mayor in Mexico City. It was built circa 1469 CE. Records indicate there were five such platforms in the complex. One other was found last year. Archaeologists are stating that they are getting closer to finding the tomb of an Aztec emperor now. Work in a nearby neighborhood site discovered a few years ago, and suspected of being the possible tomb of Aztec emperor Ahuizotl, found a stairway and offerings, but no tomb as of yet. Though the work there continues.

The Huffington Post has the story here;
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/06/aztec-temple-mexico-city_n_999145.html

And INAH reports on its finds directly;
The structure was found five feet deep and corresponds to Stage IV B, during the rule of Axayacatl. And again, INAH states that this may be close to a sacred precinct where emperors were buried. They have also found two tablets of stone with a Mexica shield related to Huitzilopochtli and to smoke and fire, perhaps referring to cremation. They will continue to excavate carefully and look especially for a staircase that could lead to a tomb.

INAH has the report here (in Spanish) with a very good slide show of the finds. Click on the tiny "fotos" link near the top.
http://www.inah.gob.mx/index.php/boletines/17-arqueologia/5279-descubren-plataforma-de-la-antigua-tenochtitlan

A tiny URL;
http://goo.gl/gQFfX

Mike Ruggeri

Mike Ruggeri's Toltec and Aztec Art Portfolio
http://tinyurl.com/kqed7t










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From juanvazquezvaz at aol.com  Sat Oct  8 02:48:05 2011
From: juanvazquezvaz at aol.com (juan Vazquez)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2011 22:48:05 -0400
Subject: tlanicuilulco, guerrero
Message-ID: <FRI.7.OCT.2011.224805.0400.JUANVAZQUEZVAZ@AOL.COM>

I need help in finding out the meaning of TLANICUILULCO........
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From a.appleyard at btinternet.com  Sat Oct  8 13:30:46 2011
From: a.appleyard at btinternet.com (ANTHONY APPLEYARD)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2011 14:30:46 +0100
Subject: tlanicuilulco, guerrero
In-Reply-To: <8CE537BD6BD8404-1904-54346@webmail-m101.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <SAT.8.OCT.2011.143046.0100.A.APPLEYARD@BTINTERNET.COM>

Please, in what context did it occur?

Por favor, en qu? contexto ocurri??


--- On Sat, 8/10/11, juan Vazquez <juanvazquezvaz at aol.com> wrote:
I need help in finding out the meaning of TLANICUILULCO........

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From mmccaffe at indiana.edu  Sat Oct  8 15:01:43 2011
From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2011 11:01:43 -0400
Subject: tlanicuilulco, guerrero
In-Reply-To: <8CE537BD6BD8404-1904-54346@webmail-m101.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <SAT.8.OCT.2011.110143.0400.MMCCAFFE@INDIANA.EDU>

Quoting juan Vazquez <juanvazquezvaz at aol.com>:

> I need help in finding out the meaning of TLANICUILULCO........
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>

Juan,

This is a fun word, as it can take you in several directions. It will 
be interesting to see what the term means.

To me it seems to be composed of the following:

tlan(i) 'downwards' + (i)hcuilu:lo: 'it is written, painted' + -co "place".

That tlan-, of course, also looks like 'tooth'.

Monequi nimitzilhuiz ahmo nicmati inezca inin altepetocaitl.

Michael




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From idiez at me.com  Sun Oct  9 19:12:13 2011
From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan/IDIEZ)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2011 14:12:13 -0500
Subject: tlanicuilulco, guerrero
In-Reply-To: <20111008110143.ch0etwuysgogo8so@webmail.iu.edu>
Message-ID: <SUN.9.OCT.2011.141213.0500.IDIEZ@ME.COM>

Piyali notequixpoyohuan,
	This word is made up of the noun tlanihcuilolli and the locative/place-name-maker -co (place of).
Now let?s look at tlanihcuilolli. This is a verbal noun that comes from the transitive verb tlanihcuiloa. And tlanihcuiloa comes from tlantli, ?tooth? and ihcuiloa, ?to write, inscribe or paint s.t.? And ihcuiloa ultimately comes from the idea of scratching/engraving, and that may be important here. Anyway, tlantl is the object of ihcuiloa, so tlanihcuiloa mean to engrave, write, inscribe, paint a tooth. When we turn this into a passive action noun, tlantli, originally the object of the verb, becomes the focus of the noun. So tlanihcuilolli is a engraved written, inscribed or painted tooth. Perhaps the scratching thing does have importance here, because we could be talking about a geographic formation within the context of sacred landscape, that looks like a tooth, perhaps a rock formation. So it would seem that tlanihcuilolco would mean, ?place of the engraved, written, inscribed or painted tooth.? Perhaps Juan has some local cultural or geographic information that could help to narrow this down.
John

John Sullivan, Ph.D.
Professor of Nahua language and culture
Universidad Aut?noma de Zacatecas
Zacatecas Institute of Teaching and Research in Ethnology
Tacuba 152, int. 43
Centro Hist?rico
Zacatecas, Zac. 98000
Mexico
Work: +52 (492) 925-3415
Home: +52 (492) 768-6048
Mobile (Mexico): +52 1 (492) 103-0195
Mobile (US): (615) 649-2790
idiez at me.com


On Oct 8, 2011, at 10:01 AM, Michael McCafferty wrote:

> Quoting juan Vazquez <juanvazquezvaz at aol.com>:
> 
>> I need help in finding out the meaning of TLANICUILULCO........
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nahuatl mailing list
>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>> 
> 
> Juan,
> 
> This is a fun word, as it can take you in several directions. It will be interesting to see what the term means.
> 
> To me it seems to be composed of the following:
> 
> tlan(i) 'downwards' + (i)hcuilu:lo: 'it is written, painted' + -co "place".
> 
> That tlan-, of course, also looks like 'tooth'.
> 
> Monequi nimitzilhuiz ahmo nicmati inezca inin altepetocaitl.
> 
> Michael
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl




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From idiez at me.com  Sun Oct  9 21:03:50 2011
From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan/IDIEZ)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2011 16:03:50 -0500
Subject: tlanicuilulco, guerrero
In-Reply-To: <20111009154742.6gz80oqzb4wsossg@webmail.iu.edu>
Message-ID: <SUN.9.OCT.2011.160350.0500.IDIEZ@ME.COM>

Michael,
	Although relational word roots are sometimes treated as noun roots and stuck on to nouns and verbs, most with an adverbial sense or when multiple-word phrases are reanalyzed and scrunched down into one word, I don?t recall seeing that happen to either the free-standing tlani or the possessed relational -tlan. In this case, tlani or -tlan would be the object of ihcuiloa, and that would really be strange.
John

On Oct 9, 2011, at 2:47 PM, Michael McCafferty wrote:

> Nice, John.
> 
> I gave the word about two seconds of my time and didn't go the further
> step to ihcuilolli, which is why, as I was walking around later
> yesterday afternoon,I suddenly said to myself, "So, with ihcuilolo, how
> do you account for that final -l- in tlanicuilulco, once -lo is lopped
> off ihcuilolo to accept the locative suffix? Doh!--Ihcuilolli."
> 
> 
> As for the tlan- part, homophony is curious phenomenon: tlan(i)
> 'downwards' and tlan(tli) 'tooth'. This is of course at the heart of
> the fun of Nahuatl.
> 
> In light of tlanicahua, tlanihuah, etc., one (meaning nehhuaton) might
> accept tlanihcuiloa with a 'tlani' meaning. But I'm interested in the
> 'tooth' analysis.
> It makes sense.
> 
> 
> Michael
> 
> 
> 
> Quoting John Sullivan/IDIEZ <idiez at me.com>:
> 
>> Piyali notequixpoyohuan,
>> 	This word is made up of the noun tlanihcuilolli and the
>> locative/place-name-maker -co (place of).
>> Now let?s look at tlanihcuilolli. This is a verbal noun that comes
>> from the transitive verb tlanihcuiloa. And tlanihcuiloa comes from
>> tlantli, ?tooth? and ihcuiloa, ?to write, inscribe or paint s.t.? And
>> ihcuiloa ultimately comes from the idea of scratching/engraving, and
>> that may be important here. Anyway, tlantl is the object of ihcuiloa,
>> so tlanihcuiloa mean to engrave, write, inscribe, paint a tooth. When
>> we turn this into a passive action noun, tlantli, originally the
>> object of the verb, becomes the focus of the noun. So tlanihcuilolli
>> is a engraved written, inscribed or painted tooth. Perhaps the
>> scratching thing does have importance here, because we could be
>> talking about a geographic formation within the context of sacred
>> landscape, that looks like a tooth, perhaps a rock formation. So it
>> would seem that tlanihcuilolco would mean, ?place of the engraved,
>> written, inscribed or painted tooth.? Perhaps Juan has some local
>> cultural or geographic information that could help to narrow this
>> down.
>> John
>> 
>> John Sullivan, Ph.D.
>> Professor of Nahua language and culture
>> Universidad Aut?noma de Zacatecas
>> Zacatecas Institute of Teaching and Research in Ethnology
>> Tacuba 152, int. 43
>> Centro Hist?rico
>> Zacatecas, Zac. 98000
>> Mexico
>> Work: +52 (492) 925-3415
>> Home: +52 (492) 768-6048
>> Mobile (Mexico): +52 1 (492) 103-0195
>> Mobile (US): (615) 649-2790
>> idiez at me.com
>> 
>> 
>> On Oct 8, 2011, at 10:01 AM, Michael McCafferty wrote:
>> 
>>> Quoting juan Vazquez <juanvazquezvaz at aol.com>:
>>> 
>>>> I need help in finding out the meaning of TLANICUILULCO........
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Nahuatl mailing list
>>>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>>>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> Juan,
>>> 
>>> This is a fun word, as it can take you in several directions. It
>>> will be interesting to see what the term means.
>>> 
>>> To me it seems to be composed of the following:
>>> 
>>> tlan(i) 'downwards' + (i)hcuilu:lo: 'it is written, painted' + -co "place".
>>> 
>>> That tlan-, of course, also looks like 'tooth'.
>>> 
>>> Monequi nimitzilhuiz ahmo nicmati inezca inin altepetocaitl.
>>> 
>>> Michael
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nahuatl mailing list
>>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 

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From cipactonal at yahoo.com.mx  Sun Oct  9 18:35:18 2011
From: cipactonal at yahoo.com.mx (Ignacio Silva)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2011 11:35:18 -0700
Subject: Rv: Un Sistema Operativo en Idioma Nahuatl ... Linux en Nahuatl
 -N4hu1n1x-
In-Reply-To: <SNT107-W35A85C17582F0A6E1EBFDDBEFF0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <SUN.9.OCT.2011.113518.0700.CIPACTONAL@YAHOO.COM.MX>

----- Mensaje reenviado -----
De: J. Ponciano <jponcianovera at hotmail.com>
Para: aguilar.d.leon at gmail.com; alicia6189 at hotmail.com; chorenmeister at gmail.com; lcisarova at yahoo.com.mx; jucons at correo.filos.unam.mx; berthacouvert at prodigy.net.mx; lydiafloresa at gmail.com; geraldine at correo.filos.unam.mx; martadelefyl at gmail.com; lguzmandemalo at yahoo.com; arlen_2385 at hotmail.com; toni19012 at hotmail.com; prietog at correo.unam.mx; iramirezd at yahoo.com; cipactonal at yahoo.com.mx; mapasim at servidor.unam.mx; sule at servidor.unam.mx; alrotj25 at yahoo.com.mx; rosalba2604 at yahoo.com.mx
Enviado: S?bado, 8 de octubre, 2011 15:56:44
Asunto: Un Sistema Operativo en Idioma Nahuatl ... Linux en Nahuatl -N4hu1n1x-






Estimado Profesor

Reciba un saludo cordial. Agradecemos su colaboraci?n para reenviar esta informaci?n a los estudiantes de?Facultad de Filosof?a y Letras UNAM. Consideramos que?podr?a?ser de?inter?s?para algunos de ellos. Estamos en busca de personas: estudiantes en general, tesistas, colectivos culturales, etc; que colaboren con este?proyecto?TARDUCIR LA INTERFAZ DE UN SISTEMA OPERATIVO DE COMPUTADORA A IDIOMA NAHUATL que conjuntamente con el desarrollo t?cnico paralelo pueda dar origen a N4u1n1x.

http://sblue.com.mx/N4hu1n1x/

Gracias de antemano!




N4hu1n1x:?GNU/Linuxen lenguaje?NAHUATL Alternativa de Sistema Operativopara uso de la gente de las comunidades de habla en idioma NAHUATL

Descargar IntroN4hu1n1x.rar?de?http://sblue.com.mx/N4hu1n1x/?Requiere para descomprimir el programa winrar que lo 
?pueden descaragar de?http://www.winrar.es/descargas?(wrar401es.exe).?IntroN4hu1n1x.rar?contiene un?v?deo, que?dar??una impresi?n de lo que se desea...


----------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------

- SE AGRADECE LO RE?ENV?EN?A SUS CONTACTOS

- SE REQUIERE DE BANDA QUE APOYE EN LAS TAREAS DE TRADUCCI?N?AS??COMO DE DESARROLLO
?
- PROYECTO SIN FINES LUCRATIVOS
?
- PUEDE SER USADO PARA ALGUNAS TESIS EN SU CASO

- NO ESTA LIMITADO AL??MBITO?ACAD?MICO?se HACE EXTENSIVA LA CONVOCATORIA A COLECTIVOS CULTURALES, PERSONAS EN GRAL, SIN?NING?N?TIPO DE RESTRICCI?N

- LOS?CR?DITOS?DE TODA LAS PERSONAS QUE COLABOREN O CONTRIBUYAN SE?A?ADIR?N?A LA VERSI?N(ES) A LIBERAR

- CUALQUIER DUDA O COMENTARIO PUEDEN COMUNICARSE CON:

?JONATHAN PONCIANO
Estudiante de Matem?ticas de la Facultad de Ciencias UNAM
<jponcianovera at hotmail.com>?
Cel. 04455 4023-2600
_______________________________________________
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http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From mmccaffe at indiana.edu  Sun Oct  9 19:47:42 2011
From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2011 15:47:42 -0400
Subject: tlanicuilulco, guerrero
In-Reply-To: <B61D9C54-68E0-4B4D-997D-984D08CE717A@me.com>
Message-ID: <SUN.9.OCT.2011.154742.0400.MMCCAFFE@INDIANA.EDU>

Nice, John.

I gave the word about two seconds of my time and didn't go the further 
step to ihcuilolli, which is why, as I was walking around later 
yesterday afternoon,I suddenly said to myself, "So, with ihcuilolo, how 
do you account for that final -l- in tlanicuilulco, once -lo is lopped 
off ihcuilolo to accept the locative suffix? Doh!--Ihcuilolli."


As for the tlan- part, homophony is curious phenomenon: tlan(i) 
'downwards' and tlan(tli) 'tooth'. This is of course at the heart of 
the fun of Nahuatl.

In light of tlanicahua, tlanihuah, etc., one (meaning nehhuaton) might 
accept tlanihcuiloa with a 'tlani' meaning. But I'm interested in the 
'tooth' analysis.
It makes sense.


Michael



Quoting John Sullivan/IDIEZ <idiez at me.com>:

> Piyali notequixpoyohuan,
> 	This word is made up of the noun tlanihcuilolli and the
> locative/place-name-maker -co (place of).
> Now let?s look at tlanihcuilolli. This is a verbal noun that comes
> from the transitive verb tlanihcuiloa. And tlanihcuiloa comes from
> tlantli, ?tooth? and ihcuiloa, ?to write, inscribe or paint s.t.? And
> ihcuiloa ultimately comes from the idea of scratching/engraving, and
> that may be important here. Anyway, tlantl is the object of ihcuiloa,
> so tlanihcuiloa mean to engrave, write, inscribe, paint a tooth. When
> we turn this into a passive action noun, tlantli, originally the
> object of the verb, becomes the focus of the noun. So tlanihcuilolli
> is a engraved written, inscribed or painted tooth. Perhaps the
> scratching thing does have importance here, because we could be
> talking about a geographic formation within the context of sacred
> landscape, that looks like a tooth, perhaps a rock formation. So it
> would seem that tlanihcuilolco would mean, ?place of the engraved,
> written, inscribed or painted tooth.? Perhaps Juan has some local
> cultural or geographic information that could help to narrow this
> down.
> John
>
> John Sullivan, Ph.D.
> Professor of Nahua language and culture
> Universidad Aut?noma de Zacatecas
> Zacatecas Institute of Teaching and Research in Ethnology
> Tacuba 152, int. 43
> Centro Hist?rico
> Zacatecas, Zac. 98000
> Mexico
> Work: +52 (492) 925-3415
> Home: +52 (492) 768-6048
> Mobile (Mexico): +52 1 (492) 103-0195
> Mobile (US): (615) 649-2790
> idiez at me.com
>
>
> On Oct 8, 2011, at 10:01 AM, Michael McCafferty wrote:
>
>> Quoting juan Vazquez <juanvazquezvaz at aol.com>:
>>
>>> I need help in finding out the meaning of TLANICUILULCO........
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nahuatl mailing list
>>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>>>
>>
>> Juan,
>>
>> This is a fun word, as it can take you in several directions. It
>> will be interesting to see what the term means.
>>
>> To me it seems to be composed of the following:
>>
>> tlan(i) 'downwards' + (i)hcuilu:lo: 'it is written, painted' + -co "place".
>>
>> That tlan-, of course, also looks like 'tooth'.
>>
>> Monequi nimitzilhuiz ahmo nicmati inezca inin altepetocaitl.
>>
>> Michael
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nahuatl mailing list
>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>
>
>
>
>



_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From idiez at me.com  Sun Oct  9 23:27:03 2011
From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan/IDIEZ)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2011 18:27:03 -0500
Subject: tlanicuilulco, guerrero
In-Reply-To: <83232E57-461E-44DE-A35F-E270E2A18FCC@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <SUN.9.OCT.2011.182703.0500.IDIEZ@ME.COM>

Fran,
	Tlanecuilolli, ?s.t. twisted or warped,? referring to the hooked mountain of Colhuahcan, also fits well within the context of sacred landscape.
John

On Oct 9, 2011, at 4:37 PM, Frances Karttunen wrote:

> OR:
> 
> Try analyzing it as tlanecuilolco.
> 
> The transitive verb necuiloa is in Molina.
> 
> Fran Karttunen
> 
> On Oct 9, 2011, at 3:12 PM, John Sullivan/IDIEZ wrote:
> 
>> Piyali notequixpoyohuan,
>> 	This word is made up of the noun tlanihcuilolli and the locative/place-name-maker -co (place of).
>> Now let?s look at tlanihcuilolli. This is a verbal noun that comes from the transitive verb tlanihcuiloa. And tlanihcuiloa comes from tlantli, ?tooth? and ihcuiloa, ?to write, inscribe or paint s.t.? And ihcuiloa ultimately comes from the idea of scratching/engraving, and that may be important here. Anyway, tlantl is the object of ihcuiloa, so tlanihcuiloa mean to engrave, write, inscribe, paint a tooth. When we turn this into a passive action noun, tlantli, originally the object of the verb, becomes the focus of the noun. So tlanihcuilolli is a engraved written, inscribed or painted tooth. Perhaps the scratching thing does have importance here, because we could be talking about a geographic formation within the context of sacred landscape, that looks like a tooth, perhaps a rock formation. So it would seem that tlanihcuilolco would mean, ?place of the engraved, written, inscribed or painted tooth.? Perhaps Juan has some local cultural or geographic information that could help to narrow this down.
>> John
>> 
>> John Sullivan, Ph.D.
>> Professor of Nahua language and culture
>> Universidad Aut?noma de Zacatecas
>> Zacatecas Institute of Teaching and Research in Ethnology
>> Tacuba 152, int. 43
>> Centro Hist?rico
>> Zacatecas, Zac. 98000
>> Mexico
>> Work: +52 (492) 925-3415
>> Home: +52 (492) 768-6048
>> Mobile (Mexico): +52 1 (492) 103-0195
>> Mobile (US): (615) 649-2790
>> idiez at me.com
>> 
>> 
>> On Oct 8, 2011, at 10:01 AM, Michael McCafferty wrote:
>> 
>>> Quoting juan Vazquez <juanvazquezvaz at aol.com>:
>>> 
>>>> I need help in finding out the meaning of TLANICUILULCO........
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Nahuatl mailing list
>>>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>>>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> Juan,
>>> 
>>> This is a fun word, as it can take you in several directions. It will be interesting to see what the term means.
>>> 
>>> To me it seems to be composed of the following:
>>> 
>>> tlan(i) 'downwards' + (i)hcuilu:lo: 'it is written, painted' + -co "place".
>>> 
>>> That tlan-, of course, also looks like 'tooth'.
>>> 
>>> Monequi nimitzilhuiz ahmo nicmati inezca inin altepetocaitl.
>>> 
>>> Michael
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nahuatl mailing list
>>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nahuatl mailing list
>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
> 

_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From mmccaffe at indiana.edu  Sun Oct  9 23:42:35 2011
From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2011 19:42:35 -0400
Subject: tlanicuilulco, guerrero
In-Reply-To: <B26C77DE-16C6-48E5-AF89-4E0EB511C5B1@me.com>
Message-ID: <SUN.9.OCT.2011.194235.0400.MMCCAFFE@INDIANA.EDU>

Yes, Fran, this was one of the other avenues that occurred to me 
yesterday but i tossed it. i guess i like throwing things.

As for tlan(i) prefixed, the terms i already supplied, John, such 
tlanicahua, tlanihuah, as well as tlanitlaza, and probably others i 
can't think of, attest to this prefixing of tlan(i).

Michael


Quoting John Sullivan/IDIEZ <idiez at me.com>:

> Fran,
> 	Tlanecuilolli, ?s.t. twisted or warped,? referring to the hooked
> mountain of Colhuahcan, also fits well within the context of sacred
> landscape.
> John
>
> On Oct 9, 2011, at 4:37 PM, Frances Karttunen wrote:
>
>> OR:
>>
>> Try analyzing it as tlanecuilolco.
>>
>> The transitive verb necuiloa is in Molina.
>>
>> Fran Karttunen
>>
>> On Oct 9, 2011, at 3:12 PM, John Sullivan/IDIEZ wrote:
>>
>>> Piyali notequixpoyohuan,
>>> 	This word is made up of the noun tlanihcuilolli and the
>>> locative/place-name-maker -co (place of).
>>> Now let?s look at tlanihcuilolli. This is a verbal noun that comes
>>> from the transitive verb tlanihcuiloa. And tlanihcuiloa comes from
>>> tlantli, ?tooth? and ihcuiloa, ?to write, inscribe or paint s.t.?
>>> And ihcuiloa ultimately comes from the idea of
>>> scratching/engraving, and that may be important here. Anyway,
>>> tlantl is the object of ihcuiloa, so tlanihcuiloa mean to engrave,
>>> write, inscribe, paint a tooth. When we turn this into a passive
>>> action noun, tlantli, originally the object of the verb, becomes
>>> the focus of the noun. So tlanihcuilolli is a engraved written,
>>> inscribed or painted tooth. Perhaps the scratching thing does have
>>> importance here, because we could be talking about a geographic
>>> formation within the context of sacred landscape, that looks like a
>>> tooth, perhaps a rock formation. So it would seem that
>>> tlanihcuilolco would mean, ?place of the engraved, written,
>>> inscribed or painted tooth.? Perhaps Juan has some local cultural
>>> or geographic information that could help to narrow this down.
>>> John
>>>
>>> John Sullivan, Ph.D.
>>> Professor of Nahua language and culture
>>> Universidad Aut?noma de Zacatecas
>>> Zacatecas Institute of Teaching and Research in Ethnology
>>> Tacuba 152, int. 43
>>> Centro Hist?rico
>>> Zacatecas, Zac. 98000
>>> Mexico
>>> Work: +52 (492) 925-3415
>>> Home: +52 (492) 768-6048
>>> Mobile (Mexico): +52 1 (492) 103-0195
>>> Mobile (US): (615) 649-2790
>>> idiez at me.com
>>>
>>>
>>> On Oct 8, 2011, at 10:01 AM, Michael McCafferty wrote:
>>>
>>>> Quoting juan Vazquez <juanvazquezvaz at aol.com>:
>>>>
>>>>> I need help in finding out the meaning of TLANICUILULCO........
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Nahuatl mailing list
>>>>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>>>>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Juan,
>>>>
>>>> This is a fun word, as it can take you in several directions. It
>>>> will be interesting to see what the term means.
>>>>
>>>> To me it seems to be composed of the following:
>>>>
>>>> tlan(i) 'downwards' + (i)hcuilu:lo: 'it is written, painted' + -co
>>>> "place".
>>>>
>>>> That tlan-, of course, also looks like 'tooth'.
>>>>
>>>> Monequi nimitzilhuiz ahmo nicmati inezca inin altepetocaitl.
>>>>
>>>> Michael
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Nahuatl mailing list
>>>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>>>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nahuatl mailing list
>>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>



_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From mmccaffe at indiana.edu  Mon Oct 10 21:00:43 2011
From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 17:00:43 -0400
Subject: two questions
Message-ID: <MON.10.OCT.2011.170043.0400.MMCCAFFE@INDIANA.EDU>

Listeros ultimos,

How long has the na:huatl been used to name the language? What are 
attested names for the language through time?

How old is the expression na:huatlaca:tl ?


Anquimatih?

Tlaxtlahui,

Michael

_______________________________________________
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Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
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From swood at uoregon.edu  Thu Oct 13 16:00:12 2011
From: swood at uoregon.edu (Stephanie Wood)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2011 09:00:12 -0700
Subject: two questions
In-Reply-To: <20111010170043.1iqtmt22owwkcw8k@webmail.iu.edu>
Message-ID: <THU.13.OCT.2011.090012.0700.SWOOD@UOREGON.EDU>

Hi Michael,

Here's an attestation from our free online Nahuatl dictionary:

vevetlque yuan oc?equi tlacatl ayac quimati navatl ypanpa yuhqui yca hoca toyollo = Los principales y la dem?s gente no saben el n?huatl. Por eso est?n tristes nuestros corazones.
[Source: Nuestro pesar, nuestra aflicci?n / tunetuliniliz, tucucuca; Memorias en lengua n?huatl enviadas a Felipe II por ind?genas del Valle de Guatemala hacia 1572, introduction by Cristopher H. Lutz, paleography and translation by Karen Dakin (M?xico: UNAM and Centro de Investigaciones Regionales de Mesoam?rica, 1996, 12-13.]

Best wishes,
Stephanie

On Oct 10, 2011, at 2:00 PM, Michael McCafferty wrote:

> Listeros ultimos,
> 
> How long has the na:huatl been used to name the language? What are attested names for the language through time?
> 
> How old is the expression na:huatlaca:tl ?
> 
> 
> Anquimatih?
> 
> Tlaxtlahui,
> 
> Michael
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
> 

Stephanie Wood, Ph.D.,
Director
Wired Humanities Projects
Knight Library
1299 University of Oregon
Eugene, Oregon 97403-1299
U.S.A.

Tel. 541-346-5771
swood at uoregon.edu
Office:
Room 142 Knight Library
Open Tues-Weds-Thurs, 10-5

_______________________________________________
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http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From szakaib at gmail.com  Mon Oct 17 14:09:37 2011
From: szakaib at gmail.com (Susan Zakaib)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2011 16:09:37 +0200
Subject: Daniel Brinton's papers
Message-ID: <MON.17.OCT.2011.160937.0200.SZAKAIB@GMAIL.COM>

Piyali Listeros,

This might be a bit of a long shot, but do any of you happen to know
where Daniel Garrison Brinton's personal papers have ended up? A
fellow grad student and friend of mine is trying to track them down,
but so far she's hit only dead ends. Any tips would be much
appreciated!

Saludos,
Susan
_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From CKolb at neh.gov  Mon Oct 17 15:44:48 2011
From: CKolb at neh.gov (Kolb, Charles)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2011 11:44:48 -0400
Subject: Daniel Brinton's papers
In-Reply-To: <CAGbLvWm_sthfWwyU7YhKLjpr9pEL8q9D1oi2+GaxTafRxU+VTw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <MON.17.OCT.2011.114448.0400.CKOLB@NEH.GOV>

University of Pennsylvania Museum of Archaeology and Ethnology.  Finding
aid:
http://repository.upenn.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1019&context=lib
rary_papers&sei-redir=1&referer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Furl%3Fsa%3
Dt%26source%3Dweb%26cd%3D1%26sqi%3D2%26ved%3D0CB0QFjAA%26url%3Dhttp%253A
%252F%252Frepository.upenn.edu%252Fcgi%252Fviewcontent.cgi%253Farticle%2
53D1019%2526context%253Dlibrary_papers%26rct%3Dj%26q%3DDaniel%2520Brinto
n%2520papers%26ei%3D_kycTtmaE-j10gGA_ZDoBA%26usg%3DAFQjCNHrTUhSppN7EsdL1
bUuOw7jcoloqA#search=%22Daniel%20Brinton%20papers%22 

-----Original Message-----
From: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org
[mailto:nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org] On Behalf Of Susan Zakaib
Sent: Monday, October 17, 2011 10:10 AM
To: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
Subject: [Nahuat-l] Daniel Brinton's papers

Piyali Listeros,

This might be a bit of a long shot, but do any of you happen to know
where Daniel Garrison Brinton's personal papers have ended up? A fellow
grad student and friend of mine is trying to track them down, but so far
she's hit only dead ends. Any tips would be much appreciated!

Saludos,
Susan
_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl

_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx  Tue Oct 18 00:57:22 2011
From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2011 19:57:22 -0500
Subject: Daniel Brinton's papers
In-Reply-To: <25CC02C906603E4AA304B9295722DE1A04E13695@owa.neh.gov>
Message-ID: <MON.17.OCT.2011.195722.0500.DCWRIGHT@PRODIGY.NET.MX>

Ain't this list great?

There's also a 455 page catalog, published in 2002 and available on line:

http://www.library.upenn.edu/eresources/brinton.pdf

Saludos,

David

-----Mensaje original-----
De: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org [mailto:nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org]
En nombre de Kolb, Charles
Enviado el: lunes, 17 de octubre de 2011 10:45
Para: Susan Zakaib; nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
Asunto: Re: [Nahuat-l] Daniel Brinton's papers

University of Pennsylvania Museum of Archaeology and Ethnology.  Finding
aid:
http://repository.upenn.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1019&context=lib
rary_papers&sei-redir=1&referer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Furl%3Fsa%3
Dt%26source%3Dweb%26cd%3D1%26sqi%3D2%26ved%3D0CB0QFjAA%26url%3Dhttp%253A
%252F%252Frepository.upenn.edu%252Fcgi%252Fviewcontent.cgi%253Farticle%2
53D1019%2526context%253Dlibrary_papers%26rct%3Dj%26q%3DDaniel%2520Brinto
n%2520papers%26ei%3D_kycTtmaE-j10gGA_ZDoBA%26usg%3DAFQjCNHrTUhSppN7EsdL1
bUuOw7jcoloqA#search=%22Daniel%20Brinton%20papers%22 

-----Original Message-----
From: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org
[mailto:nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org] On Behalf Of Susan Zakaib
Sent: Monday, October 17, 2011 10:10 AM
To: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
Subject: [Nahuat-l] Daniel Brinton's papers

Piyali Listeros,

This might be a bit of a long shot, but do any of you happen to know
where Daniel Garrison Brinton's personal papers have ended up? A fellow
grad student and friend of mine is trying to track them down, but so far
she's hit only dead ends. Any tips would be much appreciated!

Saludos,
Susan
_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl

_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl

_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From szakaib at gmail.com  Tue Oct 18 14:50:38 2011
From: szakaib at gmail.com (Susan Zakaib)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2011 16:50:38 +0200
Subject: Daniel Brinton's papers
In-Reply-To: <002601cc8d30$e4fd8bb0$aef8a310$@net.mx>
Message-ID: <TUE.18.OCT.2011.165038.0200.SZAKAIB@GMAIL.COM>

Unfortunately, it turns out the collection at Penn might not have what
my friend is looking for. However, I also received a couple of
off-list responses suggesting she check out some of his other papers
at the American Philosophical Library and the Brooklyn Museum, which
could definitely be useful leads.

This list is great, indeed--tlazcamati miac, everyone! And if anyone
has any other suggestions, please let me know.

Saludos,
Susan


On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 2:57 AM, David Wright <dcwright at prodigy.net.mx> wrote:
> Ain't this list great?
>
> There's also a 455 page catalog, published in 2002 and available on line:
>
> http://www.library.upenn.edu/eresources/brinton.pdf
>
> Saludos,
>
> David
>
> -----Mensaje original-----
> De: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org [mailto:nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org]
> En nombre de Kolb, Charles
> Enviado el: lunes, 17 de octubre de 2011 10:45
> Para: Susan Zakaib; nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> Asunto: Re: [Nahuat-l] Daniel Brinton's papers
>
> University of Pennsylvania Museum of Archaeology and Ethnology. ?Finding
> aid:
> http://repository.upenn.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1019&context=lib
> rary_papers&sei-redir=1&referer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Furl%3Fsa%3
> Dt%26source%3Dweb%26cd%3D1%26sqi%3D2%26ved%3D0CB0QFjAA%26url%3Dhttp%253A
> %252F%252Frepository.upenn.edu%252Fcgi%252Fviewcontent.cgi%253Farticle%2
> 53D1019%2526context%253Dlibrary_papers%26rct%3Dj%26q%3DDaniel%2520Brinto
> n%2520papers%26ei%3D_kycTtmaE-j10gGA_ZDoBA%26usg%3DAFQjCNHrTUhSppN7EsdL1
> bUuOw7jcoloqA#search=%22Daniel%20Brinton%20papers%22
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org
> [mailto:nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org] On Behalf Of Susan Zakaib
> Sent: Monday, October 17, 2011 10:10 AM
> To: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> Subject: [Nahuat-l] Daniel Brinton's papers
>
> Piyali Listeros,
>
> This might be a bit of a long shot, but do any of you happen to know
> where Daniel Garrison Brinton's personal papers have ended up? A fellow
> grad student and friend of mine is trying to track them down, but so far
> she's hit only dead ends. Any tips would be much appreciated!
>
> Saludos,
> Susan
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>
_______________________________________________
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From schwallr at potsdam.edu  Thu Oct 27 15:32:35 2011
From: schwallr at potsdam.edu (John F. Schwaller)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2011 11:32:35 -0400
Subject: Fwd: Nahua Newsletter, number 50, October 2011
In-Reply-To: <4EA930CB020000F9000934E4@gwia6.ipfw.edu>
Message-ID: <THU.27.OCT.2011.113235.0400.SCHWALLR@POTSDAM.EDU>

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: 	Nahua Newsletter, number 50, October 2011
Date: 	27 Oct 2011 10:22:03 -0400
From: 	Alan Sandstrom <sandstro at ipfw.edu>
To: 	..list suppressed..



Dear /NN/ readers,
       The current issue of the /Nahua Newsletter/, number 50, October 2011, is 
now available at http://www.nahuanewsletter.org/.  Hope you enjoy the issue and 
we look forward to hearing from you.
All the best,
Alan R. Sandstrom,
Nahua Newsletter editor
_______________________________________________
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Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From idiez at me.com  Thu Oct 27 20:46:50 2011
From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2011 15:46:50 -0500
Subject: Ethnohistory session in Nahuatl on deities
Message-ID: <THU.27.OCT.2011.154650.0500.IDIEZ@ME.COM>

Piyali notequixpoyohuan,
	Five of the researchers at IDIEZ held a discussion in Nahuatl on deities at the Ethnohistory conference in Pasadena last week. Each section of the panel is followed by a short summary in English and there is a question and answer session at the end. Here is the Dropbox link to download the audio recording of the entire session. It?s a bit big, 97 MB. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/15911797/Pasadena20111021.mp3
John
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From micc2 at cox.net  Thu Oct 27 22:05:28 2011
From: micc2 at cox.net (Mario E. Aguilar)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2011 15:05:28 -0700
Subject: Ethnohistory session in Nahuatl on deities
In-Reply-To: <BD2D864F-3458-46AE-95F3-FD27F85C56E3@me.com>
Message-ID: <THU.27.OCT.2011.150528.0700.MICC2@COX.NET>

Ninequi tinech?tlanili? achiyoc!!!!!!

I live for reasoned, enlightened spirituality:

"Tlacecelilli", tranquilidad, paz


Mario E. Aguilar, PhD

www.mexicayotl.net
www.aguila-blanca.com


On 10/27/2011 1:46 PM, John Sullivan wrote:
> Piyali notequixpoyohuan,
> 	Five of the researchers at IDIEZ held a discussion in Nahuatl on deities at the Ethnohistory conference in Pasadena last week. Each section of the panel is followed by a short summary in English and there is a question and answer session at the end. Here is the Dropbox link to download the audio recording of the entire session. It?s a bit big, 97 MB. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/15911797/Pasadena20111021.mp3
> John
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>
>

_______________________________________________
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Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl

From a.appleyard at btinternet.com  Fri Oct 28 04:47:21 2011
From: a.appleyard at btinternet.com (ANTHONY APPLEYARD)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2011 05:47:21 +0100
Subject: Ethnohistory session in Nahuatl on deities
In-Reply-To: <BD2D864F-3458-46AE-95F3-FD27F85C56E3@me.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.28.OCT.2011.054721.0100.A.APPLEYARD@BTINTERNET.COM>

Please, is a text transcription of this discussion available? With translation?

Citlalyani.

--- On Thu, 27/10/11, John Sullivan <idiez at me.com> wrote:

From: John Sullivan <idiez at me.com>
Subject: [Nahuat-l] Ethnohistory session in Nahuatl on deities
To: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
Date: Thursday, 27 October, 2011, 21:46

Piyali notequixpoyohuan,
??? Five of the researchers at IDIEZ held a discussion in Nahuatl on deities at the Ethnohistory conference in Pasadena last week. Each section of the panel is followed by a short summary in English and there is a question and answer session at the end. Here is the Dropbox link to download the audio recording of the entire session. It?s a bit big, 97 MB. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/15911797/Pasadena20111021.mp3
John
_______________________________________________
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http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
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From idiez at me.com  Fri Oct 28 13:45:38 2011
From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2011 08:45:38 -0500
Subject: Ethnohistory session in Nahuatl on deities
In-Reply-To: <1319777241.35915.YahooMailClassic@web86702.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.28.OCT.2011.084538.0500.IDIEZ@ME.COM>

Piyali Anthony,
	We are working on the transcription and translation right now.
John

On Oct 27, 2011, at 11:47 PM, ANTHONY APPLEYARD wrote:

> Please, is a text transcription of this discussion available? With translation?
> 
> Citlalyani.
> 
> --- On Thu, 27/10/11, John Sullivan <idiez at me.com> wrote:
> 
> From: John Sullivan <idiez at me.com>
> Subject: [Nahuat-l] Ethnohistory session in Nahuatl on deities
> To: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> Date: Thursday, 27 October, 2011, 21:46
> 
> Piyali notequixpoyohuan,
>     Five of the researchers at IDIEZ held a discussion in Nahuatl on deities at the Ethnohistory conference in Pasadena last week. Each section of the panel is followed by a short summary in English and there is a question and answer session at the end. Here is the Dropbox link to download the audio recording of the entire session. It?s a bit big, 97 MB. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/15911797/Pasadena20111021.mp3
> John
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl

_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From hawatari21centuries at gmail.com  Sun Oct 30 09:58:22 2011
From: hawatari21centuries at gmail.com (SASAKI Mitsuya)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2011 18:58:22 +0900
Subject: The verb CEQUI in Karttunen's dictionary
Message-ID: <SUN.30.OCT.2011.185822.0900.HAWATARI21CENTURIES@GMAIL.COM>

Nocnihuane,

Some of you might have noticed that the verb form CEQU(I) "to toast 
something" in Karttunen's Analytical Dictionary doesn't have 
corresponding entries in Molina's and Sim?on's dictionaries.

In fact, Molina and Sim?on both have ICEQUI "to toast maize etc.", 
probably "i" being an epenthetic vowel preceding a saltillo (IHCEQUI). 
Andrews' Introduction (p. 70 in the rev. ed.) and Wimmer's Online 
Nahuatl dictionary correctly contain IHCEQUI.

Corresponding to this, you can find "teycequjaia" and "quiceqia" in the 
Florentine Codex (Book 3, Ch. 11, p. 31 in Anderson & Dibble ver.), both 
with the meaning "to toast (maize)". The "y" in "teycequjaia" can 
properly predicted by assuming the form IHCEQUI.

I'm not sure if it's Karttunen's error (I've yet to check her source, 
Brewer&Brewer's Tetelcingo Nahuatl dictionary), but I thought I'd post 
anyway in case someone gets in trouble while reading Nahuatl texts, for 
Karttunen's dictionary doesn't contain IHCEQUI.

Thanks,
Mitsuya SASAKI
The Department of Linguistics, the University of Tokyo
ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp
_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From idiez at me.com  Sun Oct 30 14:43:47 2011
From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2011 09:43:47 -0500
Subject: The verb CEQUI in Karttunen's dictionary
In-Reply-To: <4EAD1FBE.1020200@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SUN.30.OCT.2011.094347.0500.IDIEZ@ME.COM>

Piyali Mitsuya,
	I?m sure the reason ?ihcequi? is not in Fran?s dictionary is that the word does not appear in the corpus upon which her work is based. Joe Campbell and I are at the Notre Dame STLILLA conference right now and I?m sure that sometime today (when he wakes up) he?ll post the attestations of ?ihcequi? found in his corpus. I would just like to say two things. First, ?ihcequi,? which is both intransitive and transitive, suspiciously resembles ?iucci,? ?for s.t. to ripen or be cooked.? both in sound and meaning, although the morphology is probably different. 2. the form ?teihcequiaya? is very strange. What is that ?te-?? Are we really dealing with an applicative form of ?ihcequi? (ihcequia), having now two objects and conjugated in the imperfect?? The resulting ?teihcequiaya? meaning ?to toast it for someone?? Or are we dealing with the peripheral imperative suffix ?yaya?? But then the verb would only be intransitive or transitive (with one object), so what would the ?te-? refer to?
John

John Sullivan, Ph.D.
Professor of Nahua language and culture
Universidad Aut?noma de Zacatecas
Zacatecas Institute of Teaching and Research in Ethnology
Tacuba 152, int. 43
Centro Hist?rico
Zacatecas, Zac. 98000
Mexico
Work: +52 (492) 925-3415
Home: +52 (492) 768-6048
Mobile (Mexico): +52 1 (492) 103-0195
Mobile (US): (615) 649-2790
idiez at me.com

On Oct 30, 2011, at 4:58 AM, SASAKI Mitsuya wrote:

> Nocnihuane,
> 
> Some of you might have noticed that the verb form CEQU(I) "to toast something" in Karttunen's Analytical Dictionary doesn't have corresponding entries in Molina's and Sim?on's dictionaries.
> 
> In fact, Molina and Sim?on both have ICEQUI "to toast maize etc.", probably "i" being an epenthetic vowel preceding a saltillo (IHCEQUI). Andrews' Introduction (p. 70 in the rev. ed.) and Wimmer's Online Nahuatl dictionary correctly contain IHCEQUI.
> 
> Corresponding to this, you can find "teycequjaia" and "quiceqia" in the Florentine Codex (Book 3, Ch. 11, p. 31 in Anderson & Dibble ver.), both with the meaning "to toast (maize)". The "y" in "teycequjaia" can properly predicted by assuming the form IHCEQUI.
> 
> I'm not sure if it's Karttunen's error (I've yet to check her source, Brewer&Brewer's Tetelcingo Nahuatl dictionary), but I thought I'd post anyway in case someone gets in trouble while reading Nahuatl texts, for Karttunen's dictionary doesn't contain IHCEQUI.
> 
> Thanks,
> Mitsuya SASAKI
> The Department of Linguistics, the University of Tokyo
> ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl





_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From mmccaffe at indiana.edu  Sun Oct 30 14:56:14 2011
From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2011 10:56:14 -0400
Subject: The verb CEQUI in Karttunen's dictionary
In-Reply-To: <EFF580BA-C202-450F-BC46-807B5C788F93@me.com>
Message-ID: <SUN.30.OCT.2011.105614.0400.MMCCAFFE@INDIANA.EDU>

The te- could be te:tl.



Quoting John Sullivan <idiez at me.com>:

> Piyali Mitsuya,
> 	I?m sure the reason ?ihcequi? is not in Fran?s dictionary is that
> the word does not appear in the corpus upon which her work is based.
> Joe Campbell and I are at the Notre Dame STLILLA conference right now
> and I?m sure that sometime today (when he wakes up) he?ll post the
> attestations of ?ihcequi? found in his corpus. I would just like to
> say two things. First, ?ihcequi,? which is both intransitive and
> transitive, suspiciously resembles ?iucci,? ?for s.t. to ripen or be
> cooked.? both in sound and meaning, although the morphology is
> probably different. 2. the form ?teihcequiaya? is very strange. What
> is that ?te-?? Are we really dealing with an applicative form of
> ?ihcequi? (ihcequia), having now two objects and conjugated in the
> imperfect?? The resulting ?teihcequiaya? meaning ?to toast it for
> someone?? Or are we dealing with the peripheral imperative suffix
> ?yaya?? But then the verb would only be intransitive or transitive
> (with one object), so what would the ?te-? refer to?
> John
>
> John Sullivan, Ph.D.
> Professor of Nahua language and culture
> Universidad Aut?noma de Zacatecas
> Zacatecas Institute of Teaching and Research in Ethnology
> Tacuba 152, int. 43
> Centro Hist?rico
> Zacatecas, Zac. 98000
> Mexico
> Work: +52 (492) 925-3415
> Home: +52 (492) 768-6048
> Mobile (Mexico): +52 1 (492) 103-0195
> Mobile (US): (615) 649-2790
> idiez at me.com
>
> On Oct 30, 2011, at 4:58 AM, SASAKI Mitsuya wrote:
>
>> Nocnihuane,
>>
>> Some of you might have noticed that the verb form CEQU(I) "to toast
>> something" in Karttunen's Analytical Dictionary doesn't have
>> corresponding entries in Molina's and Sim?on's dictionaries.
>>
>> In fact, Molina and Sim?on both have ICEQUI "to toast maize etc.",
>> probably "i" being an epenthetic vowel preceding a saltillo
>> (IHCEQUI). Andrews' Introduction (p. 70 in the rev. ed.) and
>> Wimmer's Online Nahuatl dictionary correctly contain IHCEQUI.
>>
>> Corresponding to this, you can find "teycequjaia" and "quiceqia" in
>> the Florentine Codex (Book 3, Ch. 11, p. 31 in Anderson & Dibble
>> ver.), both with the meaning "to toast (maize)". The "y" in
>> "teycequjaia" can properly predicted by assuming the form IHCEQUI.
>>
>> I'm not sure if it's Karttunen's error (I've yet to check her
>> source, Brewer&Brewer's Tetelcingo Nahuatl dictionary), but I
>> thought I'd post anyway in case someone gets in trouble while
>> reading Nahuatl texts, for Karttunen's dictionary doesn't contain
>> IHCEQUI.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Mitsuya SASAKI
>> The Department of Linguistics, the University of Tokyo
>> ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nahuatl mailing list
>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>



_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
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http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From hawatari21centuries at gmail.com  Mon Oct 31 01:12:09 2011
From: hawatari21centuries at gmail.com (SASAKI Mitsuya)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2011 10:12:09 +0900
Subject: The verb CEQUI in Karttunen's dictionary
In-Reply-To: <EFF580BA-C202-450F-BC46-807B5C788F93@me.com>
Message-ID: <MON.31.OCT.2011.101209.0900.HAWATARI21CENTURIES@GMAIL.COM>

Piyali, Johntzine, Michaeltzine,

Thanks. You made me realize that I underestimated how difficult this 
verb was, and I didn't notice that it resembles IUCCI.

As you pointed out, the problem of this strange ending "-yaya" (or 
"ia:ya"?) remains even if we assume it's in the imperfect form.
I'm afraid that if "te" is the incorporated form of "tetl", this verb 
should have been "te-hcequi-..." without the "i", if this verb really 
has an epenthetic "i" and a saltillo.
In both cases, as John said, the valency and the ending are still 
problematic. It's also strange that this verb is used only infrequently 
in the text.

Mitsuya

Mitsuya SASAKI
The Department of Linguistics, the University of Tokyo
ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp

(2011/10/30 23:43), John Sullivan wrote:
> Piyali Mitsuya,
> I?m sure the reason ?ihcequi? is not in Fran?s dictionary is that the
> word does not appear in the corpus upon which her work is based. Joe
> Campbell and I are at the Notre Dame STLILLA conference right now and
> I?m sure that sometime today (when he wakes up) he?ll post the
> attestations of ?ihcequi? found in his corpus. I would just like to say
> two things. First, ?ihcequi,? which is both intransitive and transitive,
> suspiciously resembles ?iucci,? ?for s.t. to ripen or be cooked.? both
> in sound and meaning, although the morphology is probably different. 2.
> the form ?teihcequiaya? is very strange. What is that ?te-?? Are we
> really dealing with an applicative form of ?ihcequi? (ihcequia), having
> now two objects and conjugated in the imperfect?? The resulting
> ?teihcequiaya? meaning ?to toast it for someone?? Or are we dealing with
> the peripheral imperative suffix ?yaya?? But then the verb would only be
> intransitive or transitive (with one object), so what would the ?te-?
> refer to?
> John
>
> John Sullivan, Ph.D.
> Professor of Nahua language and culture
> Universidad Aut?noma de Zacatecas
> Zacatecas Institute of Teaching and Research in Ethnology
> Tacuba 152, int. 43
> Centro Hist?rico
> Zacatecas, Zac. 98000
> Mexico
> Work: +52 (492) 925-3415
> Home: +52 (492) 768-6048
> Mobile (Mexico): +52 1 (492) 103-0195
> Mobile (US): (615) 649-2790
> idiez at me.com <mailto:idiez at me.com>
>
> On Oct 30, 2011, at 4:58 AM, SASAKI Mitsuya wrote:
>
>> Nocnihuane,
>>
>> Some of you might have noticed that the verb form CEQU(I) "to toast
>> something" in Karttunen's Analytical Dictionary doesn't have
>> corresponding entries in Molina's and Sim?on's dictionaries.
>>
>> In fact, Molina and Sim?on both have ICEQUI "to toast maize etc.",
>> probably "i" being an epenthetic vowel preceding a saltillo (IHCEQUI).
>> Andrews' Introduction (p. 70 in the rev. ed.) and Wimmer's Online
>> Nahuatl dictionary correctly contain IHCEQUI.
>>
>> Corresponding to this, you can find "teycequjaia" and "quiceqia" in
>> the Florentine Codex (Book 3, Ch. 11, p. 31 in Anderson & Dibble
>> ver.), both with the meaning "to toast (maize)". The "y" in
>> "teycequjaia" can properly predicted by assuming the form IHCEQUI.
>>
>> I'm not sure if it's Karttunen's error (I've yet to check her source,
>> Brewer&Brewer's Tetelcingo Nahuatl dictionary), but I thought I'd post
>> anyway in case someone gets in trouble while reading Nahuatl texts,
>> for Karttunen's dictionary doesn't contain IHCEQUI.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Mitsuya SASAKI
>> The Department of Linguistics, the University of Tokyo
>> ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp <mailto:ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nahuatl mailing list
>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>
>
>
>
>

_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From idiez at me.com  Mon Oct 31 02:36:08 2011
From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2011 22:36:08 -0400
Subject: The verb CEQUI in Karttunen's dictionary
In-Reply-To: <4EADF5E9.3020204@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SUN.30.OCT.2011.223608.0400.IDIEZ@ME.COM>

Mitsuya,
	I don?t think the te- is from tetl. This could only be the case if tetl is an incorporated noun working as an adverb of place, as in ?to toast s.t. on a rock.? But this kind of incorporated adverb (of place) is very rare, or perhaps non-existent. I really think we?re dealing with the applicative form of the verb, producing two objects. And the te- would then be the most animate of those objects, the human, non-specific object.
John

On Oct 30, 2011, at 9:12 PM, SASAKI Mitsuya wrote:

> Piyali, Johntzine, Michaeltzine,
> 
> Thanks. You made me realize that I underestimated how difficult this verb was, and I didn't notice that it resembles IUCCI.
> 
> As you pointed out, the problem of this strange ending "-yaya" (or "ia:ya"?) remains even if we assume it's in the imperfect form.
> I'm afraid that if "te" is the incorporated form of "tetl", this verb should have been "te-hcequi-..." without the "i", if this verb really has an epenthetic "i" and a saltillo.
> In both cases, as John said, the valency and the ending are still problematic. It's also strange that this verb is used only infrequently in the text.
> 
> Mitsuya
> 
> Mitsuya SASAKI
> The Department of Linguistics, the University of Tokyo
> ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp
> 
> (2011/10/30 23:43), John Sullivan wrote:
>> Piyali Mitsuya,
>> I?m sure the reason ?ihcequi? is not in Fran?s dictionary is that the
>> word does not appear in the corpus upon which her work is based. Joe
>> Campbell and I are at the Notre Dame STLILLA conference right now and
>> I?m sure that sometime today (when he wakes up) he?ll post the
>> attestations of ?ihcequi? found in his corpus. I would just like to say
>> two things. First, ?ihcequi,? which is both intransitive and transitive,
>> suspiciously resembles ?iucci,? ?for s.t. to ripen or be cooked.? both
>> in sound and meaning, although the morphology is probably different. 2.
>> the form ?teihcequiaya? is very strange. What is that ?te-?? Are we
>> really dealing with an applicative form of ?ihcequi? (ihcequia), having
>> now two objects and conjugated in the imperfect?? The resulting
>> ?teihcequiaya? meaning ?to toast it for someone?? Or are we dealing with
>> the peripheral imperative suffix ?yaya?? But then the verb would only be
>> intransitive or transitive (with one object), so what would the ?te-?
>> refer to?
>> John
>> 
>> John Sullivan, Ph.D.
>> Professor of Nahua language and culture
>> Universidad Aut?noma de Zacatecas
>> Zacatecas Institute of Teaching and Research in Ethnology
>> Tacuba 152, int. 43
>> Centro Hist?rico
>> Zacatecas, Zac. 98000
>> Mexico
>> Work: +52 (492) 925-3415
>> Home: +52 (492) 768-6048
>> Mobile (Mexico): +52 1 (492) 103-0195
>> Mobile (US): (615) 649-2790
>> idiez at me.com <mailto:idiez at me.com>
>> 
>> On Oct 30, 2011, at 4:58 AM, SASAKI Mitsuya wrote:
>> 
>>> Nocnihuane,
>>> 
>>> Some of you might have noticed that the verb form CEQU(I) "to toast
>>> something" in Karttunen's Analytical Dictionary doesn't have
>>> corresponding entries in Molina's and Sim?on's dictionaries.
>>> 
>>> In fact, Molina and Sim?on both have ICEQUI "to toast maize etc.",
>>> probably "i" being an epenthetic vowel preceding a saltillo (IHCEQUI).
>>> Andrews' Introduction (p. 70 in the rev. ed.) and Wimmer's Online
>>> Nahuatl dictionary correctly contain IHCEQUI.
>>> 
>>> Corresponding to this, you can find "teycequjaia" and "quiceqia" in
>>> the Florentine Codex (Book 3, Ch. 11, p. 31 in Anderson & Dibble
>>> ver.), both with the meaning "to toast (maize)". The "y" in
>>> "teycequjaia" can properly predicted by assuming the form IHCEQUI.
>>> 
>>> I'm not sure if it's Karttunen's error (I've yet to check her source,
>>> Brewer&Brewer's Tetelcingo Nahuatl dictionary), but I thought I'd post
>>> anyway in case someone gets in trouble while reading Nahuatl texts,
>>> for Karttunen's dictionary doesn't contain IHCEQUI.
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> Mitsuya SASAKI
>>> The Department of Linguistics, the University of Tokyo
>>> ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp <mailto:ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nahuatl mailing list
>>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl

_______________________________________________
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From hawatari21centuries at gmail.com  Mon Oct 31 02:48:27 2011
From: hawatari21centuries at gmail.com (SASAKI Mitsuya)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2011 11:48:27 +0900
Subject: The verb CEQUI in Karttunen's dictionary
In-Reply-To: <883E9125-E6B2-4792-A7BE-EC0E89665B51@me.com>
Message-ID: <MON.31.OCT.2011.114827.0900.HAWATARI21CENTURIES@GMAIL.COM>

John,

I agree. If we assume te:- for this "TE", the following "i" is correctly 
predicted. "Teicequiaya" here is used without any overt object noun, so 
the only possible interpretation of this verb would be 
te:(NonspecO)-(i)hcequia:-ya(IMPF),
the stem (i)hcequia: being a monotransitive applicative-like verb ending 
in -ia:, meaning kind of "toast (maize) for s.o."

Mitsuya SASAKI
The Department of Linguistics, the University of Tokyo
ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp

(2011/10/31 11:36), John Sullivan wrote:
> Mitsuya,
> 	I don?t think the te- is from tetl. This could only be the case if tetl is an incorporated noun working as an adverb of place, as in ?to toast s.t. on a rock.? But this kind of incorporated adverb (of place) is very rare, or perhaps non-existent. I really think we?re dealing with the applicative form of the verb, producing two objects. And the te- would then be the most animate of those objects, the human, non-specific object.
> John
>
> On Oct 30, 2011, at 9:12 PM, SASAKI Mitsuya wrote:
>
>> Piyali, Johntzine, Michaeltzine,
>>
>> Thanks. You made me realize that I underestimated how difficult this verb was, and I didn't notice that it resembles IUCCI.
>>
>> As you pointed out, the problem of this strange ending "-yaya" (or "ia:ya"?) remains even if we assume it's in the imperfect form.
>> I'm afraid that if "te" is the incorporated form of "tetl", this verb should have been "te-hcequi-..." without the "i", if this verb really has an epenthetic "i" and a saltillo.
>> In both cases, as John said, the valency and the ending are still problematic. It's also strange that this verb is used only infrequently in the text.
>>
>> Mitsuya
>>
>> Mitsuya SASAKI
>> The Department of Linguistics, the University of Tokyo
>> ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp
>>
>> (2011/10/30 23:43), John Sullivan wrote:
>>> Piyali Mitsuya,
>>> I?m sure the reason ?ihcequi? is not in Fran?s dictionary is that the
>>> word does not appear in the corpus upon which her work is based. Joe
>>> Campbell and I are at the Notre Dame STLILLA conference right now and
>>> I?m sure that sometime today (when he wakes up) he?ll post the
>>> attestations of ?ihcequi? found in his corpus. I would just like to say
>>> two things. First, ?ihcequi,? which is both intransitive and transitive,
>>> suspiciously resembles ?iucci,? ?for s.t. to ripen or be cooked.? both
>>> in sound and meaning, although the morphology is probably different. 2.
>>> the form ?teihcequiaya? is very strange. What is that ?te-?? Are we
>>> really dealing with an applicative form of ?ihcequi? (ihcequia), having
>>> now two objects and conjugated in the imperfect?? The resulting
>>> ?teihcequiaya? meaning ?to toast it for someone?? Or are we dealing with
>>> the peripheral imperative suffix ?yaya?? But then the verb would only be
>>> intransitive or transitive (with one object), so what would the ?te-?
>>> refer to?
>>> John
>>>
>>> John Sullivan, Ph.D.
>>> Professor of Nahua language and culture
>>> Universidad Aut?noma de Zacatecas
>>> Zacatecas Institute of Teaching and Research in Ethnology
>>> Tacuba 152, int. 43
>>> Centro Hist?rico
>>> Zacatecas, Zac. 98000
>>> Mexico
>>> Work: +52 (492) 925-3415
>>> Home: +52 (492) 768-6048
>>> Mobile (Mexico): +52 1 (492) 103-0195
>>> Mobile (US): (615) 649-2790
>>> idiez at me.com<mailto:idiez at me.com>
>>>
>>> On Oct 30, 2011, at 4:58 AM, SASAKI Mitsuya wrote:
>>>
>>>> Nocnihuane,
>>>>
>>>> Some of you might have noticed that the verb form CEQU(I) "to toast
>>>> something" in Karttunen's Analytical Dictionary doesn't have
>>>> corresponding entries in Molina's and Sim?on's dictionaries.
>>>>
>>>> In fact, Molina and Sim?on both have ICEQUI "to toast maize etc.",
>>>> probably "i" being an epenthetic vowel preceding a saltillo (IHCEQUI).
>>>> Andrews' Introduction (p. 70 in the rev. ed.) and Wimmer's Online
>>>> Nahuatl dictionary correctly contain IHCEQUI.
>>>>
>>>> Corresponding to this, you can find "teycequjaia" and "quiceqia" in
>>>> the Florentine Codex (Book 3, Ch. 11, p. 31 in Anderson&  Dibble
>>>> ver.), both with the meaning "to toast (maize)". The "y" in
>>>> "teycequjaia" can properly predicted by assuming the form IHCEQUI.
>>>>
>>>> I'm not sure if it's Karttunen's error (I've yet to check her source,
>>>> Brewer&Brewer's Tetelcingo Nahuatl dictionary), but I thought I'd post
>>>> anyway in case someone gets in trouble while reading Nahuatl texts,
>>>> for Karttunen's dictionary doesn't contain IHCEQUI.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Mitsuya SASAKI
>>>> The Department of Linguistics, the University of Tokyo
>>>> ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp<mailto:ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Nahuatl mailing list
>>>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>>>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nahuatl mailing list
>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>

_______________________________________________
Nahuatl mailing list
Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From jdanahuatl at gmail.com  Mon Oct 31 04:10:14 2011
From: jdanahuatl at gmail.com (Jonathan Amith)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2011 00:10:14 -0400
Subject: The verb CEQUI in Karttunen's dictionary
In-Reply-To: <883E9125-E6B2-4792-A7BE-EC0E89665B51@me.com>
Message-ID: <MON.31.OCT.2011.001014.0400.JDANAHUATL@GMAIL.COM>

Dear all,

I only have the verb as a transitive k-ihseki referring to the action of
toasting (grains particularly) on top of a clay griddle (comal). The
applicative in Balsas Nahuatl would be ihsekilia. It can refer to maize but
also to other seeds such as guajes (Leucaena spp.), some beans (e.g.,
locally, white beans), and squash seeds.

What is the full citation of text from the Florentine Codex?
Best, Jonathan
On Sun, Oct 30, 2011 at 10:36 PM, John Sullivan <idiez at me.com> wrote:

> Mitsuya,
>        I don?t think the te- is from tetl. This could only be the case if
> tetl is an incorporated noun working as an adverb of place, as in ?to toast
> s.t. on a rock.? But this kind of incorporated adverb (of place) is very
> rare, or perhaps non-existent. I really think we?re dealing with the
> applicative form of the verb, producing two objects. And the te- would then
> be the most animate of those objects, the human, non-specific object.
> John
>
> On Oct 30, 2011, at 9:12 PM, SASAKI Mitsuya wrote:
>
> > Piyali, Johntzine, Michaeltzine,
> >
> > Thanks. You made me realize that I underestimated how difficult this
> verb was, and I didn't notice that it resembles IUCCI.
> >
> > As you pointed out, the problem of this strange ending "-yaya" (or
> "ia:ya"?) remains even if we assume it's in the imperfect form.
> > I'm afraid that if "te" is the incorporated form of "tetl", this verb
> should have been "te-hcequi-..." without the "i", if this verb really has
> an epenthetic "i" and a saltillo.
> > In both cases, as John said, the valency and the ending are still
> problematic. It's also strange that this verb is used only infrequently in
> the text.
> >
> > Mitsuya
> >
> > Mitsuya SASAKI
> > The Department of Linguistics, the University of Tokyo
> > ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp
> >
> > (2011/10/30 23:43), John Sullivan wrote:
> >> Piyali Mitsuya,
> >> I?m sure the reason ?ihcequi? is not in Fran?s dictionary is that the
> >> word does not appear in the corpus upon which her work is based. Joe
> >> Campbell and I are at the Notre Dame STLILLA conference right now and
> >> I?m sure that sometime today (when he wakes up) he?ll post the
> >> attestations of ?ihcequi? found in his corpus. I would just like to say
> >> two things. First, ?ihcequi,? which is both intransitive and transitive,
> >> suspiciously resembles ?iucci,? ?for s.t. to ripen or be cooked.? both
> >> in sound and meaning, although the morphology is probably different. 2.
> >> the form ?teihcequiaya? is very strange. What is that ?te-?? Are we
> >> really dealing with an applicative form of ?ihcequi? (ihcequia), having
> >> now two objects and conjugated in the imperfect?? The resulting
> >> ?teihcequiaya? meaning ?to toast it for someone?? Or are we dealing with
> >> the peripheral imperative suffix ?yaya?? But then the verb would only be
> >> intransitive or transitive (with one object), so what would the ?te-?
> >> refer to?
> >> John
> >>
> >> John Sullivan, Ph.D.
> >> Professor of Nahua language and culture
> >> Universidad Aut?noma de Zacatecas
> >> Zacatecas Institute of Teaching and Research in Ethnology
> >> Tacuba 152, int. 43
> >> Centro Hist?rico
> >> Zacatecas, Zac. 98000
> >> Mexico
> >> Work: +52 (492) 925-3415
> >> Home: +52 (492) 768-6048
> >> Mobile (Mexico): +52 1 (492) 103-0195
> >> Mobile (US): (615) 649-2790
> >> idiez at me.com <mailto:idiez at me.com>
> >>
> >> On Oct 30, 2011, at 4:58 AM, SASAKI Mitsuya wrote:
> >>
> >>> Nocnihuane,
> >>>
> >>> Some of you might have noticed that the verb form CEQU(I) "to toast
> >>> something" in Karttunen's Analytical Dictionary doesn't have
> >>> corresponding entries in Molina's and Sim?on's dictionaries.
> >>>
> >>> In fact, Molina and Sim?on both have ICEQUI "to toast maize etc.",
> >>> probably "i" being an epenthetic vowel preceding a saltillo (IHCEQUI).
> >>> Andrews' Introduction (p. 70 in the rev. ed.) and Wimmer's Online
> >>> Nahuatl dictionary correctly contain IHCEQUI.
> >>>
> >>> Corresponding to this, you can find "teycequjaia" and "quiceqia" in
> >>> the Florentine Codex (Book 3, Ch. 11, p. 31 in Anderson & Dibble
> >>> ver.), both with the meaning "to toast (maize)". The "y" in
> >>> "teycequjaia" can properly predicted by assuming the form IHCEQUI.
> >>>
> >>> I'm not sure if it's Karttunen's error (I've yet to check her source,
> >>> Brewer&Brewer's Tetelcingo Nahuatl dictionary), but I thought I'd post
> >>> anyway in case someone gets in trouble while reading Nahuatl texts,
> >>> for Karttunen's dictionary doesn't contain IHCEQUI.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>> Mitsuya SASAKI
> >>> The Department of Linguistics, the University of Tokyo
> >>> ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp <mailto:
> ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Nahuatl mailing list
> >>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> >>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Nahuatl mailing list
> > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>
_______________________________________________
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Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl


From hawatari21centuries at gmail.com  Mon Oct 31 15:03:51 2011
From: hawatari21centuries at gmail.com (Mitsuya SASAKI)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 00:03:51 +0900
Subject: The verb CEQUI in Karttunen's dictionary
In-Reply-To: <AB318B2A-BE95-437F-BE11-EDDC8A7155B5@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <TUE.1.NOV.2011.000351.0900.HAWATARI21CENTURIES@GMAIL.COM>

Fran,

Thank you, and sorry for writing as if it was a shortcoming of ADN.
IH- is always problematic both semantically and morphophonologically,
and Andrews' Introduction points out that TLA- + IHCEQUI yields not
only TLAHCEQUI, but alternatively TLAIHCEQUI.
Now I wonder if the form CEQUI in Tetelcingo Nahuatl is an aphaeretic
form of IHCEQUI or it reflects the older form without the prefix IH-.

Mitsuya SASAKI
The Department of Linguistics, the University of Tokyo
ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp

(2011/10/31 22:21), Frances Karttunen wrote:
>> if this verb really has an epenthetic "i" and a saltillo.
>
> This may not be a case of epenthetic i before stem-initial saltillo.
> There is a prefixed element ih- that appears with verbs and occasionally
> adds to the basic meaning of the verb something like "upwards" (ihpo:tza
> 'to belch') but other times is completely obscure as to sense. James
> Lockhart wrote a paper about this element back in the 1970s, but I don't
> know where you might find a copy.
>
> As mentioned, the ADN only contains forms attested in sources that
> provide information about contrastive vowel length and glottal stop. So
> it does not, by a long shot, contain every entry in Molina. If the
> canonical form in ADN is repeatedly attested across several sources,
> there is no indication of source. But if it is attested infrequently or
> only in a single source, that is noted in the entry. In the case of
> cequi, it only appears in the Tetelcingo dictionary, and ihcequi is not
> attested in any of the contributing sources. Naturally, it is simple to
> extrapolate ihcequi from T. cequi.
>
> Fran Karttunen
>
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From mmccaffe at indiana.edu  Mon Oct 31 18:23:03 2011
From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2011 14:23:03 -0400
Subject: The verb CEQUI in Karttunen's dictionary
In-Reply-To: <4EAE0C7B.7030106@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <MON.31.OCT.2011.142303.0400.MMCCAFFE@INDIANA.EDU>

Quoting SASAKI Mitsuya <hawatari21centuries at gmail.com>:

> John,
>
> I agree. If we assume te:- for this "TE", the following "i" is
> correctly predicted. "Teicequiaya" here is used without any overt
> object noun, so the only possible interpretation of this verb would
> be te:(NonspecO)-(i)hcequia:-ya(IMPF),

That makes sense, Mitsuya.


> the stem (i)hcequia: being a monotransitive applicative-like verb
> ending in -ia:, meaning kind of "toast (maize) for s.o."
>
> Mitsuya SASAKI
> The Department of Linguistics, the University of Tokyo
> ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp
>
> (2011/10/31 11:36), John Sullivan wrote:
>> Mitsuya,
>> 	I don?t think the te- is from tetl. This could only be the case if
>> tetl is an incorporated noun working as an adverb of place, as in
>> ?to toast s.t. on a rock.? But this kind of incorporated adverb (of
>> place) is very rare, or perhaps non-existent. I really think we?re
>> dealing with the applicative form of the verb, producing two
>> objects. And the te- would then be the most animate of those
>> objects, the human, non-specific object.
>> John
>>
>> On Oct 30, 2011, at 9:12 PM, SASAKI Mitsuya wrote:
>>
>>> Piyali, Johntzine, Michaeltzine,
>>>
>>> Thanks. You made me realize that I underestimated how difficult
>>> this verb was, and I didn't notice that it resembles IUCCI.
>>>
>>> As you pointed out, the problem of this strange ending "-yaya" (or
>>> "ia:ya"?) remains even if we assume it's in the imperfect form.
>>> I'm afraid that if "te" is the incorporated form of "tetl", this
>>> verb should have been "te-hcequi-..." without the "i", if this verb
>>> really has an epenthetic "i" and a saltillo.
>>> In both cases, as John said, the valency and the ending are still
>>> problematic. It's also strange that this verb is used only
>>> infrequently in the text.
>>>
>>> Mitsuya
>>>
>>> Mitsuya SASAKI
>>> The Department of Linguistics, the University of Tokyo
>>> ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp
>>>
>>> (2011/10/30 23:43), John Sullivan wrote:
>>>> Piyali Mitsuya,
>>>> I?m sure the reason ?ihcequi? is not in Fran?s dictionary is that the
>>>> word does not appear in the corpus upon which her work is based. Joe
>>>> Campbell and I are at the Notre Dame STLILLA conference right now and
>>>> I?m sure that sometime today (when he wakes up) he?ll post the
>>>> attestations of ?ihcequi? found in his corpus. I would just like to say
>>>> two things. First, ?ihcequi,? which is both intransitive and transitive,
>>>> suspiciously resembles ?iucci,? ?for s.t. to ripen or be cooked.? both
>>>> in sound and meaning, although the morphology is probably different. 2.
>>>> the form ?teihcequiaya? is very strange. What is that ?te-?? Are we
>>>> really dealing with an applicative form of ?ihcequi? (ihcequia), having
>>>> now two objects and conjugated in the imperfect?? The resulting
>>>> ?teihcequiaya? meaning ?to toast it for someone?? Or are we dealing with
>>>> the peripheral imperative suffix ?yaya?? But then the verb would only be
>>>> intransitive or transitive (with one object), so what would the ?te-?
>>>> refer to?
>>>> John
>>>>
>>>> John Sullivan, Ph.D.
>>>> Professor of Nahua language and culture
>>>> Universidad Aut?noma de Zacatecas
>>>> Zacatecas Institute of Teaching and Research in Ethnology
>>>> Tacuba 152, int. 43
>>>> Centro Hist?rico
>>>> Zacatecas, Zac. 98000
>>>> Mexico
>>>> Work: +52 (492) 925-3415
>>>> Home: +52 (492) 768-6048
>>>> Mobile (Mexico): +52 1 (492) 103-0195
>>>> Mobile (US): (615) 649-2790
>>>> idiez at me.com<mailto:idiez at me.com>
>>>>
>>>> On Oct 30, 2011, at 4:58 AM, SASAKI Mitsuya wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Nocnihuane,
>>>>>
>>>>> Some of you might have noticed that the verb form CEQU(I) "to toast
>>>>> something" in Karttunen's Analytical Dictionary doesn't have
>>>>> corresponding entries in Molina's and Sim?on's dictionaries.
>>>>>
>>>>> In fact, Molina and Sim?on both have ICEQUI "to toast maize etc.",
>>>>> probably "i" being an epenthetic vowel preceding a saltillo (IHCEQUI).
>>>>> Andrews' Introduction (p. 70 in the rev. ed.) and Wimmer's Online
>>>>> Nahuatl dictionary correctly contain IHCEQUI.
>>>>>
>>>>> Corresponding to this, you can find "teycequjaia" and "quiceqia" in
>>>>> the Florentine Codex (Book 3, Ch. 11, p. 31 in Anderson&  Dibble
>>>>> ver.), both with the meaning "to toast (maize)". The "y" in
>>>>> "teycequjaia" can properly predicted by assuming the form IHCEQUI.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm not sure if it's Karttunen's error (I've yet to check her source,
>>>>> Brewer&Brewer's Tetelcingo Nahuatl dictionary), but I thought I'd post
>>>>> anyway in case someone gets in trouble while reading Nahuatl texts,
>>>>> for Karttunen's dictionary doesn't contain IHCEQUI.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Mitsuya SASAKI
>>>>> The Department of Linguistics, the University of Tokyo
>>>>> ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp<mailto:ll116003 at mail.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Nahuatl mailing list
>>>>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>>>>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nahuatl mailing list
>>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
>>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>



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