tlacoyoctli

[IDIEZ]

Michael,
	It definitely did. I had completely forgotten that those verbal nouns that end in -ctli, don't just come from verbs ending in -ni. Your example was a reminder that they can also be formed from verbs ending in -hua. So the progression, using your example would be:
coyahua (verb) > coyactli (noun) > coyacti or coyactiya (verb) > coyactic ([adjectival] noun).
	And I was referring to a certain older gentleman who dabbles once in a while in morphology, who is either waiting to post the explanation or is as stumped as we are.
John

On Feb 29, 2012, at 10:34 AM, Michael McCafferty wrote:

> Quoting IDIEZ <idiez at me.com>:
> 
>> Hi Michael,
>> 	The progression would be coyoni (verb) > coyoctli (noun) > coyocti
>> or coyoctiya (verb) > coyoctic ([adjectival] noun).
> 
> Yes, aware, but i thought that might give you something to think about
> in a positive direction.
> 
> 
>> 	It wouldn't be coyahua or coyahuiya: that's for s.t. to become
>> distended, like the neck of a sweater that you have to stretch out so
>> your head can fit through. It (the example) would fit if there were a
>> coyohua, nic., that had to do with perforating, but this word is
>> already taken: it means to howl.
>> 	Perhaps one of the more worldly, experienced participants of
>> nahuat-l is chuckling right now in cyberspace, waiting for a
>> convenient moment to post the answer to this question.
> 
> Their convenient moments seem to be very few and far between.
> 
> Michael
> 
> 
> 
>> John
>> 
>> On Feb 28, 2012, at 4:07 PM, Michael McCafferty wrote:
>> 
>>> Hola, John,
>>> 
>>> Don't know if this is any help, but tlacoyoctli seems to hint at
>>> another verb in the form of *coyocti, as there is another word for
>>> 'hole' and 'something with holes', which is "coyoctic". This in turn
>>> may be related to coyahua.  Interesting question.
>>> 
>>> Michael
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Quoting IDIEZ <idiez at me.com>:
>>> 
>>>> Piyali nohuihuiticapoyohuan,
>>>> 	I have a problem that probably wouldn?t be so serious if I got out
>>>> more often....
>>>> 	?Tlacoyoctli,? ?a hole? seems to be what Andrews calls a ?Perfective
>>>> Patientive Noun? and he gives lots of examples at the beginning of
>>>> Lesson 39 in the most recent edition of his grammar. The problem is
>>>> that the only verb root this noun could come from is ?coyonia, nic?,
>>>> ?to perforate/make a hole in s.t.? But structurally it seems to come
>>>> from ?coyoni,? the intransitive ?to become perforated,? or an
>>>> unattested and ridiculous ?coyona.? It is as if ?coyonia? has either
>>>> lost the entire ?-ia? or has reverted to the intransitive form before
>>>> switching into a noun. What is going on?
>>>> John
>>>> 
>>>> John Sullivan, Ph.D.
>>>> Professor of Nahua Language and Culture
>>>> Zacatecas Institute for Teaching and Research in Ethnology
>>>> Universidad Autónoma de Zacatecas
>>>> +52 (492) 925-3425 (office)
>>>> +52 1 (492) 103-0195 (mobile)
>>>> idiez at me.com
>>>> www.macehualli.org
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Nahuatl mailing list
>>>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
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>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nahuatl mailing list
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>> 
>> John Sullivan, Ph.D.
>> Professor of Nahua Language and Culture
>> Zacatecas Institute for Teaching and Research in Ethnology
>> Universidad Autónoma de Zacatecas
>> +52 (492) 925-3425 (office)
>> +52 1 (492) 103-0195 (mobile)
>> idiez at me.com
>> www.macehualli.org
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 

John Sullivan, Ph.D.
Professor of Nahua Language and Culture
Zacatecas Institute for Teaching and Research in Ethnology
Universidad Autónoma de Zacatecas
+52 (492) 925-3425 (office)
+52 1 (492) 103-0195 (mobile)
idiez at me.com
www.macehualli.org

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