From tekuani at hotmail.es Tue Jul 3 21:57:57 2012 From: tekuani at hotmail.es (Jacinto Acatecatl) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2012 16:57:57 -0500 Subject: Radio Indigena en Zongolica Ver. Message-ID: Panolte Tehhuatzin, ahi les mando esta link para que puedan escuchar la radio indigena de zongolica que trasmite en nàhuatl (Zona Centro del Edo de Veracruz Mèxico) y español, de 6 am a 6 pm solo tiene que bajar el programa de RealPlayer y asi de fàcil Atrevanse a escuchar musica alterna. http://ecos.cdi.gob.mx/xezon.html _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Tue Jul 10 13:04:06 2012 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2012 09:04:06 -0400 Subject: Michel Launey Message-ID: Does anyone out there use the English translation of Launey's grammar in herhis classroom? Thank you. Michael McCafferty _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From gwhitta4 at googlemail.com Tue Jul 10 17:59:32 2012 From: gwhitta4 at googlemail.com (Gordon Whittaker) Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2012 19:59:32 +0200 Subject: Michel Launey In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Michael! Yep, sure do. And I like what I see there (although I would have preferred the consistent use of an apostrophe or h for the glottal stop throughout, instead of using phonetic, rather than phonemic, acute and grave accents). Launey and his translator have done an admirable job of presenting Nahuatl in an understandable and accessible manner to the educated public. The problem with Andrews, apart from his excessively prescriptive attitude, is that he consciously tries to make Nahuatl seem as foreign as possible, as an overreaction to earlier attempts to Europeanize Nahuatl. The lessons are well arranged, not too long, and provided with sufficient exercises. I'm satisfied that this is the best teaching grammar that has so far appeared, one that will surely nurture enthusiasts. The latter can afterwards cut their teeth on Andrews and Carochi, or move on to modern dialect grammars. Thumbs up on Launey! Best wishes, Gordon Sent from my iPad > > Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2012 09:04:06 -0400 > From: Michael McCafferty > To: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > Subject: [Nahuat-l] Michel Launey > > Does anyone out there use the English translation of Launey's grammar > in herhis classroom? > > Thank you. > > Michael McCafferty _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From lahunik.62 at skynet.be Thu Jul 12 22:57:17 2012 From: lahunik.62 at skynet.be (lahunik.62 at skynet.be) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 00:57:17 +0200 Subject: Launey's dictionary Message-ID: Vol.265.Issue 1 Message 1 To Michael McCafferty I use Launey's work translated in French. But I use Launey's work translated in Spanish by Cristina Kraft too, with the exercises. Unfortunately I couldn't download all the solutions of the exercises. Lahun ik 62 Baert Georges Flanders Fields _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From marc.eisinger at laposte.net Fri Jul 13 17:52:15 2012 From: marc.eisinger at laposte.net (Marc Eisinger) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 19:52:15 +0200 Subject: Launey's work In-Reply-To: Message-ID: A side remark : Launey's work was never translated in French. He is French and wrote it in French. Marc Eisinger > Message du 13/07/12 19:00 > De : nahuatl-request at lists.famsi.org > A : nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > Copie à : > Objet : Nahuatl Digest, Vol 265, Issue 3 > > Send Nahuatl mailing list submissions to > nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > nahuatl-request at lists.famsi.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > nahuatl-owner at lists.famsi.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Nahuatl digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Launey's dictionary (lahunik.62 at skynet.be) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 00:57:17 +0200 > From: > To: ,"Nahuatl List" > Subject: [Nahuat-l] Launey's dictionary > Message-ID: <1F371E6026BD455BABB3012BCA3352F6 at baert> > Content-Type: text/plain;charset="us-ascii" > > Vol.265.Issue 1 > > Message 1 > > To Michael McCafferty > > I use Launey's work translated in French. > > But I use Launey's work translated in Spanish by Cristina Kraft too, with > the exercises. > > Unfortunately I couldn't download all the solutions of the exercises. > > Lahun ik 62 > > Baert Georges > > Flanders Fields > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > > > End of Nahuatl Digest, Vol 265, Issue 3 > *************************************** > Une messagerie gratuite, garantie à vie et des services en plus, ça vous tente ? Je crée ma boîte mail www.laposte.net _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From campbel at indiana.edu Mon Jul 16 03:44:35 2012 From: campbel at indiana.edu (Campbell, R. Joe) Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2012 23:44:35 -0400 Subject: One word or two?? Message-ID: Nocnihuan, I have a simple question: in the following entries from Molina, is "coztic" a separate word or part of the longer word? Thanks for your "parecer", Joe cozticteocuitlacohualoni (cozticteocuitlacohualoni). moneda de oro. 55m-14| cozticteocuitlacozcapetlatl (cozticteocuitlacozcapetlatl). collar de oro; collar ancho de^oro. 55m-3| cozticteocuitlacozcatl (cozticteocuitlacozcatl). joya de oro. 71m2-5| cozticteocuitlahuah (cozticteocuitlahuah). platero que labra oro. 55m-16| cozticteocuitlamachiyotl (cozticteocuitlamachiyotl). quilate de oro. 55m-16| cozticteocuitlamachiyotia =ni (cozticteocuitlamachiyotia =ni). quilate dar al oro. 55m-16| cozticteocuitlamachiyotl (cozticteocuitlamachiyotl) [scribal error: ??01|printing error: teocuirlamachiyotl for teocuitlamachiyotl: 71m1]. quilate de oro. 71m1-181| cozticteocuitlamachiyotia =ni (cozticteocuitlamachiyotia =ni). quilate dar al oro. 71m1-181| cozticteocuitlaneliuhcayotl (cozticteocuitlaneliuhcayotl). liga en el oro; liga enel oro. 55m-12| cozticteocuitlaoztotl (cozticteocuitlaoztotl). minero de oro. 55m-14| cozticteocuitlapitzqui (cozticteocuitlapitzqui). platero que labra oro. 55m-16| cozticteocuitlapopozoquillotl (cozticteocuitlapopozoquillotl). espuma de oro; espuma o escoria de oro. +ly>ll>. 55m-9| cozticteocuitlaquixtiloyan (cozticteocuitlaquixtiloyan). minero de oro. >. 55m-14| cozticteocuitlatecomatl (cozticteocuitlatecomatl). vaso de oro. 55m-19| cozticteocuitlatl (cozticteocuitlatl). oro. 55m-15| cozticteocuitlatlaneliuhcayotl (cozticteocuitlatlaneliuhcayotl). liga en el oro. 55m-12| cozticteocuitlatlatemantli (cozticteocuitlatlatemantli). pieza o moneda de oro. 55m-16| cozticteocuitlatlaneliuhcayotl (cozticteocuitlatlaneliuhcayotl). liga enel oro. 71m1-141| cozticteocuitlatlatemantli (cozticteocuitlatlatemantli). pieza o moneda de oro; pieza o tejuelo doro. 71m1-171| cozticteocuitlatomin (cozticteocuitlatomin) [scribal error: ??01|printing error: taocuitlatomin for teocuitlatomin: 55m]. moneda de oro. 55m-14| cozticteocuitlatomin (cozticteocuitlatomin). moneda de oro. 71m1-152| cozticteocuitlaxaltetl (cozticteocuitlaxaltetl). grano de oro. 55m-10| _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Mon Jul 16 13:33:42 2012 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 09:33:42 -0400 Subject: One word or two?? In-Reply-To: <20120715234435.pb2fpxx5skkc4oss@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: Sorry. I should have saved all my thoughts for one message. Two words. Coztic is really a past tense verb, and you can't tack a verb like that onto the front of a noun. Michael Quoting "Campbell, R. Joe" : > Nocnihuan, > > I have a simple question: in the following entries from Molina, is > "coztic" a separate word or part of the longer word? > > Thanks for your "parecer", > > Joe > > > > cozticteocuitlacohualoni (cozticteocuitlacohualoni). moneda de oro. > 55m-14| > > cozticteocuitlacozcapetlatl (cozticteocuitlacozcapetlatl). collar de > oro; collar ancho de^oro. 55m-3| > > cozticteocuitlacozcatl (cozticteocuitlacozcatl). joya de oro. 71m2-5| > > cozticteocuitlahuah (cozticteocuitlahuah). platero que labra oro. > 55m-16| > > cozticteocuitlamachiyotl (cozticteocuitlamachiyotl). quilate de oro. > 55m-16| > > cozticteocuitlamachiyotia =ni (cozticteocuitlamachiyotia =ni). > quilate dar al oro. 55m-16| > > cozticteocuitlamachiyotl (cozticteocuitlamachiyotl) [scribal error: > ??01|printing error: teocuirlamachiyotl for teocuitlamachiyotl: > 71m1]. quilate de oro. > 71m1-181| > > cozticteocuitlamachiyotia =ni (cozticteocuitlamachiyotia =ni). > quilate dar al oro. 71m1-181| > > cozticteocuitlaneliuhcayotl (cozticteocuitlaneliuhcayotl). liga en el > oro; liga enel oro. 55m-12| > > cozticteocuitlaoztotl (cozticteocuitlaoztotl). minero de oro. 55m-14| > > cozticteocuitlapitzqui (cozticteocuitlapitzqui). platero que labra > oro. 55m-16| > > cozticteocuitlapopozoquillotl (cozticteocuitlapopozoquillotl). espuma > de oro; espuma o escoria de oro. +ly>ll>. 55m-9| > > cozticteocuitlaquixtiloyan (cozticteocuitlaquixtiloyan). minero de > oro. >. 55m-14| > > cozticteocuitlatecomatl (cozticteocuitlatecomatl). vaso de oro. > 55m-19| > > cozticteocuitlatl (cozticteocuitlatl). oro. 55m-15| > > cozticteocuitlatlaneliuhcayotl (cozticteocuitlatlaneliuhcayotl). liga > en el oro. 55m-12| > > cozticteocuitlatlatemantli (cozticteocuitlatlatemantli). pieza o > moneda de oro. 55m-16| > > cozticteocuitlatlaneliuhcayotl (cozticteocuitlatlaneliuhcayotl). liga > enel oro. 71m1-141| > > cozticteocuitlatlatemantli (cozticteocuitlatlatemantli). pieza o > moneda de oro; pieza o tejuelo doro. 71m1-171| > > cozticteocuitlatomin (cozticteocuitlatomin) [scribal error: > ??01|printing error: taocuitlatomin for teocuitlatomin: 55m]. > moneda de oro. 55m-14| > > cozticteocuitlatomin (cozticteocuitlatomin). moneda de oro. 71m1-152| > > cozticteocuitlaxaltetl (cozticteocuitlaxaltetl). grano de oro. > 55m-10| > > > > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From idiez at me.com Mon Jul 16 14:36:23 2012 From: idiez at me.com (IDIEZ) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 07:36:23 -0700 Subject: One word or two?? In-Reply-To: <20120716093342.n59i0f4j4ogso488@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: Piyali notequixpoyohuan, Normally coztic would be the free form and coztica- would be the combining form. However, this is called into question by Joe's examples. If we say that the form of the fourth example is coztic teocuitlahuah, it would mean that the person is yellow, not the imbedded noun of the -huah agentive. There are other instances where adjective/adverbs ending in -c are attached to a noun or verb root without first going back to the older -ca form. One, along the same line here, is chichiltictepozquixtiloyan, incorrectly translated in Molina or Sahagún (Joe can clarify this) as copper miner (it is also possibly incorrectly separated as chichiltic tepozquixtiloyan, in the original text; again Joe can chime in here). It should be copper mine, and obviously, if we divide it into chichiltic tepozquixtiloyan, it would mean a red iron-mine instead of the preferred red-iron mine. There are examples with more commonly used words. I just can`t think of any right now. John On Jul 16, 2012, at 6:33 AM, Michael McCafferty wrote: > > Sorry. I should have saved all my thoughts for one message. > > Two words. > > Coztic is really a past tense verb, and you can't tack a verb like that onto the front of a noun. > > Michael > > Quoting "Campbell, R. Joe" : > >> Nocnihuan, >> >> I have a simple question: in the following entries from Molina, is >> "coztic" a separate word or part of the longer word? >> >> Thanks for your "parecer", >> >> Joe >> >> >> >> cozticteocuitlacohualoni (cozticteocuitlacohualoni). moneda de oro. >> 55m-14| >> >> cozticteocuitlacozcapetlatl (cozticteocuitlacozcapetlatl). collar de >> oro; collar ancho de^oro. 55m-3| >> >> cozticteocuitlacozcatl (cozticteocuitlacozcatl). joya de oro. 71m2-5| >> >> cozticteocuitlahuah (cozticteocuitlahuah). platero que labra oro. >> 55m-16| >> >> cozticteocuitlamachiyotl (cozticteocuitlamachiyotl). quilate de oro. >> 55m-16| >> >> cozticteocuitlamachiyotia =ni (cozticteocuitlamachiyotia =ni). >> quilate dar al oro. 55m-16| >> >> cozticteocuitlamachiyotl (cozticteocuitlamachiyotl) [scribal error: >> ??01|printing error: teocuirlamachiyotl for teocuitlamachiyotl: >> 71m1]. quilate de oro. >> 71m1-181| >> >> cozticteocuitlamachiyotia =ni (cozticteocuitlamachiyotia =ni). >> quilate dar al oro. 71m1-181| >> >> cozticteocuitlaneliuhcayotl (cozticteocuitlaneliuhcayotl). liga en el >> oro; liga enel oro. 55m-12| >> >> cozticteocuitlaoztotl (cozticteocuitlaoztotl). minero de oro. 55m-14| >> >> cozticteocuitlapitzqui (cozticteocuitlapitzqui). platero que labra >> oro. 55m-16| >> >> cozticteocuitlapopozoquillotl (cozticteocuitlapopozoquillotl). espuma >> de oro; espuma o escoria de oro. +ly>ll>. 55m-9| >> >> cozticteocuitlaquixtiloyan (cozticteocuitlaquixtiloyan). minero de >> oro. >. 55m-14| >> >> cozticteocuitlatecomatl (cozticteocuitlatecomatl). vaso de oro. >> 55m-19| >> >> cozticteocuitlatl (cozticteocuitlatl). oro. 55m-15| >> >> cozticteocuitlatlaneliuhcayotl (cozticteocuitlatlaneliuhcayotl). liga >> en el oro. 55m-12| >> >> cozticteocuitlatlatemantli (cozticteocuitlatlatemantli). pieza o >> moneda de oro. 55m-16| >> >> cozticteocuitlatlaneliuhcayotl (cozticteocuitlatlaneliuhcayotl). liga >> enel oro. 71m1-141| >> >> cozticteocuitlatlatemantli (cozticteocuitlatlatemantli). pieza o >> moneda de oro; pieza o tejuelo doro. 71m1-171| >> >> cozticteocuitlatomin (cozticteocuitlatomin) [scribal error: >> ??01|printing error: taocuitlatomin for teocuitlatomin: 55m]. >> moneda de oro. 55m-14| >> >> cozticteocuitlatomin (cozticteocuitlatomin). moneda de oro. 71m1-152| >> >> cozticteocuitlaxaltetl (cozticteocuitlaxaltetl). grano de oro. >> 55m-10| >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Nahuatl mailing list >> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org >> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From campbel at indiana.edu Mon Jul 16 22:25:58 2012 From: campbel at indiana.edu (Campbell, R. Joe) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 18:25:58 -0400 Subject: One word or two?? Message-ID: Michael, John, ihuan occequi nocnihuan, My problem originated because I agreed with Michael's intuition that adjectives in -tic, which originate in verbs and "dizque" form adjectives with the preterite -c, can hardly compound with the following word. When I read John's consideration of "compound vs. phrase", I decided to consider the issue more at length. In the meantime, I wanted to call attention to the willingness of Nahuatl to creep across word-formation lines and surprise us. I'll make a few comments on some of the examples below, but let the majority of them speak for themselves. The examples are from Molina and the Florentine. The "=" is used as a separator before the prefix and the preterite. The regularized form is given first and the original document form is enclosed in parentheses. Joe ***-ni is a verbal prefix, but crosses the line into "noundom". Note its willingness to "verb" in the same way that basic nouns do. aahuieniti (aahuieniti). she becomes a harlot. b.4 f.3 p.25| ahuiyaniti =n=onahuianitic (ahuianiti =n=onahuianitic). ser puta. 71m2-2| cuicuicaniti (cuicuicaniti). he becomes a singer. b.4 f.1 p.7| ** ***-ni forms -meh plural like a noun. ahuiyanimeh (ahuiyanimeh). harlots; pleasure girls. b.10 f.5 p.89| altianimeh , te- (te$altianimeh). bathers of slaves; bathers; slave bathers; ceremonial bather; those who bathe slaves. b.9 f.4 p.47| ananimeh , te- (te$ananimeh). escorts. b.9 f.5 p.61| ** ***-ni takes a diminutive suffix like a noun. cuicuicaniton (cuicuicanito). grillo especie de cigarra; grillo; especie de cigarra (idem). 55m-10| ehuatlepitzaloniton (ehuatlepitzalonito). fuelles peque¤as; fuelles peque¤as de organo peque¤o. 55m-10| machtianiton =te (temachtianiton). maestro peque¤o. 55m-13| matepoztlaximaloniton (matepoztlaximalonito). azuela peque¤a. 55m-001| pohpohualoniton =tla (tlapohpohualonito). escoba peque¤a o escobajo. 55m-8| tamachihualoniton =tla (tlatamachihualonito). libreta; medida peque¤a. 71m1-141| tepozchihchiquillateconiton (tepozchihchiquillateconiton). sierra peque¤a assi (assi is sierra de hierro para asserrar). 55m-18| tepozteihxilihuaniton (tepozteihxilihuaniton). pu¤al peque¤o. 55m-16| tepoztlacohualoniton (tepoztlacohualonito). marauedi; o blanca. 55m-13| tepoztlateconiton (tepoztlateconiton). segureja, peque¤a segur. 71m1-191| tepoztlateconiton (tepoztlateconito). hachuela para cortar. 71m2-18| tetzotzonaloniton =tla (tlatetzotzonaloniton). mazo peque¤o. 55m-12| tlahtoaniton (tlahtoaniton). rey peque¤o. 55m-17| tlapoloniton =tla (tlatlapolonito). llaue peque¤a. 71m2-24| tlazololololoniton (tlazololololonito). rastro peque¤o assi (assi is rastro para rastrar paja). 71m2-20| ***-ni takes what used to be called a postposition (e.g., -tlah) tecuanitlah (tecuanitlah). place of wild beasts. b.11 f.25 p.256| tecuantlah (tecuantlah). place of wild beasts. b.10 f.12 p.188| ***-ni forms noun-noun compounds tecuannacatl (tecuannacatl). wild beast flesh. b.11 f.1 p.4| tecuannahuale (tecuannahuale). one is disguised as a wild beast. b.4 f.5 p.42| tecuantepecatl (tecuantepecatl). person from Tecuantepec. b.9 f.1 p.3| tecuantlacualtin (tecuantlacualtin). food for wild beasts. b.5 f.1 p.154| ***-ni "verbs" like a noun tecuantilia =nino (tecuantilia =nino). brauear assi (assi is braua cosa que muerde). 55m-2| *** from this point on, the arrangement is incomplete tecuantlalia , mo- (mo-tecuantlalia). he becomes brave. b.4 f.5 p.42| tecuantocatl (tecuantocatl). ara¤a negra ponzo¤osa; ara¤a negra y ponzo¤osa; ara¤a ponza¤osa. 55m-1| tecuantonaleh (tecuantonaleh). one who has the day sign of a wild beast. b.4 f.1 p.6| tecuantonalli (tecuantonalli). day sign of wild beasts; days of wild beasts; evil day sign. b.4 f.1 p.5| tecuantonalpan (tecuantonalpan). on an evil day sign. b.6 f.16 p.198| tecuanyo (tecuanyo). brave; fierce; having wild beasts; having man- eating animals. b.10 f.3 p.50| tecuanyohtoc (tecuanyohtoc). . b.4 f.7 p.66| tecuanyotihcac (tecuanyotihcac). it is full of wild beasts. b.11 f.26 p.267| tecuanyotitoc , mo- (mo$tecuanyotitoc). . b.4 f.7 p.66| tecuayoti , mo- (mo$tecuayoti). . b.6 f.2 p.15| tecuayoti , xic- (xic-tecuayoti). make it stern. b.6 f.5 p.53| tecuayoti , ximo- (ximo-tecuayoti). be stern. b.6 f.5 p.53| tecuayotili , xicmo- (xicmo-tecuayotili). . b.6 f.2 p.24| tecuayotl (tecuayotl). braueza, ferocidad, o crueldad de fieras brauas. 71m2-18| Quoting IDIEZ : > Piyali notequixpoyohuan, > Normally coztic would be the free form and coztica- would be the > combining form. However, this is called into question by Joe's > examples. If we say that the form of the fourth example is coztic > teocuitlahuah, it would mean that the person is yellow, not the > imbedded noun of the -huah agentive. > There are other instances where adjective/adverbs ending in -c are > attached to a noun or verb root without first going back to the older > -ca form. One, along the same line here, is > chichiltictepozquixtiloyan, incorrectly translated in Molina or > Sahagún (Joe can clarify this) as copper miner (it is also possibly > incorrectly separated as chichiltic tepozquixtiloyan, in the > original text; again Joe can chime in here). It should be copper > mine, and obviously, if we divide it into chichiltic > tepozquixtiloyan, it would mean a red iron-mine instead of the > preferred red-iron mine. > There are examples with more commonly used words. I just can`t think > of any right now. > John > > > On Jul 16, 2012, at 6:33 AM, Michael McCafferty wrote: > >> >> Sorry. I should have saved all my thoughts for one message. >> >> Two words. >> >> Coztic is really a past tense verb, and you can't tack a verb like >> that onto the front of a noun. >> >> Michael >> >> Quoting "Campbell, R. Joe" : >> >>> Nocnihuan, >>> >>> I have a simple question: in the following entries from Molina, is >>> "coztic" a separate word or part of the longer word? >>> >>> Thanks for your "parecer", >>> >>> Joe >>> >>> >>> >>> cozticteocuitlacohualoni (cozticteocuitlacohualoni). moneda de oro. >>> 55m-14| >>> >>> cozticteocuitlacozcapetlatl (cozticteocuitlacozcapetlatl). collar de >>> oro; collar ancho de^oro. 55m-3| >>> >>> cozticteocuitlacozcatl (cozticteocuitlacozcatl). joya de oro. 71m2-5| >>> >>> cozticteocuitlahuah (cozticteocuitlahuah). platero que labra oro. >>> 55m-16| >>> >>> cozticteocuitlamachiyotl (cozticteocuitlamachiyotl). quilate de oro. >>> 55m-16| >>> >>> cozticteocuitlamachiyotia =ni (cozticteocuitlamachiyotia =ni). >>> quilate dar al oro. 55m-16| >>> >>> cozticteocuitlamachiyotl (cozticteocuitlamachiyotl) [scribal error: >>> ??01|printing error: teocuirlamachiyotl for teocuitlamachiyotl: >>> 71m1]. quilate de oro. >>> 71m1-181| >>> >>> cozticteocuitlamachiyotia =ni (cozticteocuitlamachiyotia =ni). >>> quilate dar al oro. 71m1-181| >>> >>> cozticteocuitlaneliuhcayotl (cozticteocuitlaneliuhcayotl). liga en el >>> oro; liga enel oro. 55m-12| >>> >>> cozticteocuitlaoztotl (cozticteocuitlaoztotl). minero de oro. 55m-14| >>> >>> cozticteocuitlapitzqui (cozticteocuitlapitzqui). platero que labra >>> oro. 55m-16| >>> >>> cozticteocuitlapopozoquillotl (cozticteocuitlapopozoquillotl). espuma >>> de oro; espuma o escoria de oro. +ly>ll>. 55m-9| >>> >>> cozticteocuitlaquixtiloyan (cozticteocuitlaquixtiloyan). minero de >>> oro. >. 55m-14| >>> >>> cozticteocuitlatecomatl (cozticteocuitlatecomatl). vaso de oro. >>> 55m-19| >>> >>> cozticteocuitlatl (cozticteocuitlatl). oro. 55m-15| >>> >>> cozticteocuitlatlaneliuhcayotl (cozticteocuitlatlaneliuhcayotl). liga >>> en el oro. 55m-12| >>> >>> cozticteocuitlatlatemantli (cozticteocuitlatlatemantli). pieza o >>> moneda de oro. 55m-16| >>> >>> cozticteocuitlatlaneliuhcayotl (cozticteocuitlatlaneliuhcayotl). liga >>> enel oro. 71m1-141| >>> >>> cozticteocuitlatlatemantli (cozticteocuitlatlatemantli). pieza o >>> moneda de oro; pieza o tejuelo doro. 71m1-171| >>> >>> cozticteocuitlatomin (cozticteocuitlatomin) [scribal error: >>> ??01|printing error: taocuitlatomin for teocuitlatomin: 55m]. >>> moneda de oro. 55m-14| >>> >>> cozticteocuitlatomin (cozticteocuitlatomin). moneda de oro. 71m1-152| >>> >>> cozticteocuitlaxaltetl (cozticteocuitlaxaltetl). grano de oro. >>> 55m-10| >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Nahuatl mailing list >>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org >>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Nahuatl mailing list >> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org >> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From tekuani at hotmail.es Tue Jul 17 19:04:27 2012 From: tekuani at hotmail.es (Jacinto Acatecatl) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 14:04:27 -0500 Subject: Nahuatl Digest, Vol 266, Issue 1 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: COINCIDO CON EL ULTIMO CONCEPTO, COZTIK TOMIN TLAKOHUALONI AMARILLO MONEDA DE COMPRA cozticteocuitlacohualoni (cozticteocuitlacohualoni). moneda de oro. 55m-14| _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Wed Jul 18 11:06:56 2012 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 07:06:56 -0400 Subject: Nahuatl in the U.S. and Canada Message-ID: Are there any universities in Canada or the U.S. that offer introductory Nahuatl these days? Thank you. Michael _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From idiez at me.com Wed Jul 18 18:13:00 2012 From: idiez at me.com (IDIEZ) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 11:13:00 -0700 Subject: Nahuatl in the U.S. and Canada In-Reply-To: <20120718070656.z3qr42tpk0okgogo@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: Piyali notequixpoyohuan, I will reply later with a list of the universities we provide services to. But it would be a good idea to compile a master list of all institutions everywhere that offer courses. John On Jul 18, 2012, at 4:06 AM, Michael McCafferty wrote: > Are there any universities in Canada or the U.S. that offer introductory Nahuatl these days? > > Thank you. > > Michael > > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Thu Jul 19 19:39:13 2012 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 15:39:13 -0400 Subject: Carochi Message-ID: Can anyone tell if Carochi's glottal stop markers are used in (many) other primary sources? Thank you! Michael _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From hawatari21centuries at gmail.com Thu Jul 19 23:25:02 2012 From: hawatari21centuries at gmail.com (SASAKI Mitsuya) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 08:25:02 +0900 Subject: Carochi In-Reply-To: <20120719153913.c05eh1zc8owsos8o@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: Michael, I'm not sure if you already know this, but the text in the Buncroft Dialogues systematically uses grave accents to mark glottal stops. It's slightly different from Carochi's usage in that the BC consistently uses a grave accent no matter where it occurs, while Carochi marks a sentence-final saltillo by a circumflex. Probably it was a post-Carochi Jesuit tradition to mark saltillos in this way, but unfortunately I don't know any other sources which adopt this system. --- Mitsuya Sasaki Department of Linguistics, The University of Tokyo (2012/07/20 4:39), Michael McCafferty wrote: > Can anyone tell if Carochi's glottal stop markers are used in (many) > other primary sources? > > > Thank you! > > Michael > > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From schwallr at potsdam.edu Fri Jul 20 05:28:46 2012 From: schwallr at potsdam.edu (John F. Schwaller) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 01:28:46 -0400 Subject: Carochi Message-ID: Dear all, Fran Karttunen based her Dictionary on sources written using the Carochi system, and others where vowel length and the glottal stop were marked. The three plays held in the Bancroft Library and published by Burkhart and Sell also use the system but on a slightly more haphazard basis. -- John F. Schwaller President, SUNY Potsdam 44 Pierrepont Ave. Potsdam, NY 13676 schwallr at potsdam.edu _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Fri Jul 20 11:00:08 2012 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 07:00:08 -0400 Subject: Carochi In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Quoting "John F. Schwaller" : > > Dear all, > > Fran Karttunen based her Dictionary on sources written using the Carochi > system, and others where vowel length and the glottal stop were marked. Yes, indeed! > > The three plays held in the Bancroft Library and published by Burkhart and > Sell also use the system but on a slightly more haphazard basis. I see. But is the *use* of Carochi's glottal stop indications widespread? Or is it limited to Carochi himself and the Bancroft material? Ca c'est la question. Thanks, Fritz! Michael One additional question for all that someone asked me: "Carochi's text, do you have a source where I can buy it and also the Porrua 3 volumes of Torquemada's Monarquia India? Amazon is not helpful and keeps sending me to re-print houses by Porrua's edition in both cases is what I prefer." Tlaxtlahui. Michael > > > -- > John F. Schwaller > President, > SUNY Potsdam > 44 Pierrepont Ave. > Potsdam, NY 13676 > schwallr at potsdam.edu > > > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx Fri Jul 20 21:18:45 2012 From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 16:18:45 -0500 Subject: Carochi In-Reply-To: <20120720070008.e49yipxu04gg44co@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: Muy estimado Michael: The phoneme caleed "saltillo" was usually a glottal stop but had an allophone, apparently a voiceless glottal fricative like English /h/, used in dialects in the Puebla-Tlaxcala region, according to friar Antonio del Rincón (1595: 64r). As a precedent, at least one of the Florentine Codex scribes, working around 1577, occasionally used the circumflex sign over the preceding vowel to represent the saltillo, around 1577 (Sahagún 1979; see also the transcriptions in Sahagún 1974-1982). Other than grammars and dictionaries, the Bancroft Library manuscripts produced by Horacio Carochi's "circle" (as Fritz Schwaller [1994] has called it), as far as I can see, are the only extant manuscripts using Carochi's orthography, although they use the "breve" diacritic, like a little 'u', instead of an acute accent for short vowels. It is probable that the acute accent replaced the breve in Carochi's published grammar (1645) due to typographical constraints in printer Juan Ruiz's shop, according to Lockhart (2001a: xiii). The manuscripts from the circle of Carochi at the Bancroft include both huehuetlatolli speeches (The Art of Nahuatl speech 1987) and translations of Spanish theater (Nahuatl theater 2008). See Lockhart 2001b: 142; Schwaller 1984, 1987, 2001, 2008; Sell 2007. Here's a brief rundown on saltillo representation in descriptive sources over the years. Franciscan friar Alonso de Molina (1555, 1571a, 1571b, etc.) sometimes represents the saltillo with the letter 'h' but usually omits it. Antonio del Rincón, a native speaker and Jesuit, was the first to point out the necessity of representing the saltillo (and vowel length), in his Arte mexicana (1595). In the manuscript he appears to have used the breve diacritic for the saltillo and three diacritics (grave, acute and circumflex) for vowel length, as he explains on folios 63r-64v of the printed book. Unfortunately the printer was unable to reproduce the diacritics, and the manuscript is lost. Only once does he represent a breve, standing alone, by mutilating a piece of type, perhaps an 'o' . The letter 'h' is used frequentlyfor the saltillo in this grammar. Pedro de Arenas (1611), at first glance, seems to have tried to apply Rincon's orthography in his Vocabulario manual, but his use of diacritics is far from consistent. The Florentine Jesuit priest Horacio Carochi learned from Rincón (using his grammar extensively as a source) and represents the saltillo and vowel length, more or less consistently, in his Arte (1645), although he doesn't follow Rincon's conventions. Instead Carochi represents the saltillo with a grave accent over the preceding vowel and a circumflex when the saltillo is at the end of a sentence (See León-Portilla 1983; Lockhart 2001a; Schwaller 1994; Smith 2000). In colonial descriptive sources, Jesuit Francisco Javier Clavijero's grammar (1976), written around 1760-1787, uses Carochi's system, although somewhat inconsistently. Joseph Augustin Aldama y Guevara, in his Arte de la lengua mexicana (1998 [1754]), uses Carochi's diacritics to represent the saltillo and long vowels. Jesuit Ignacio de Paredes published a compendium of Carochi's grammar in 1759, although without the diacritics (see Hernández 1998; Lockhart 2001b: x, 111-125; Schwaller 1994: 392). In the 19th and much of the 20th centuries, saltillos were usually ignored, although occasionally an 'h' appears in Siméon's dictionary (1999 [1885]). Garibay (1999 [1940]) and Sullivan (1983 [1976]) inconsistently use 'h' or an apostrophe. J. Richard Andrews (1975a, 1975b, 2003a, 2003b) recovers Carochi's understanding of Nahuatl phonology, although he uses 'h' instead of diacritics for the saltillo, which is a good thing, since the saltillo is a consonant, not a feature of vowels. Andrew's orthography is used by Frances Karttunen (1983a, 1992), John Bierhorst (1985, 2009), R. Joe Campbell & FrancesKarttunen (1989a, 1989b) and others, myself included (2007). Michel Launey uses Carochi's system of diacritics in his grammar (1992, 1995, 2011 [1979]) and his dissertation (1986), although he uses the circumflex at the ends of words in general, not just the ends of sentences. James Lockhart (2001) uses 'h' for the saltillo when he chooses to write it. Paul P. de Wolf (2003) consistently uses 'h' for the saltillo (and double vowels, e. g. "aa", to express long duration). Saludos, David P. S. The original 1645 edition of Carochi's Arte is now available on two web sites, as is the 1892 edition (see below). The most useful edition for study is Lockhart's annotated and indexed version with an English translation (2001). As for Torquemada's work, the UNAM edition (1975-1983) is more useful than the Editorial Porrúa edition, particularly for the tables in volume 7 that trace his sources. There is a digital edition available on-line (Torquemada 2010). REFERENCIAS (note that many are available on-line) Aldama y Guevara, Joseph Augustín, “Arte de la lengua mexicana”, facsímil de la ed. de 1754, en Obras clásicas sobre la lengua náhuatl, ed. digital, Ascensión Hernández de León-Portilla, compiladora, Madrid, Fundación Histórica Tavera/Mapfre Mutualidad/Digibis, 1998. Andrews, J. Richard, Introduction to Classical Nahuatl, Austin/Londres, University of Texas Press, 1975. Andrews, J. Richard, Introduction to Classical Nahuatl, revised edition, Norman, University of Oklahoma Press, 2003. Andrews, J. Richard, Introduction to Classical Nahuatl, workbook, Austin/Londres, University of Texas Press, 1975. Andrews, J. Richard, Workbook for introduction to Classical Nahuatl, revised edition, Norman, University of Oklahoma Press, 2003. Arenas, Pedro de, Vocabulario manual de las lenguas castellana y mexicana, en que se contienen las palabras, preguntas,y respuestas mas comunes y ordinarias que se suelen ofrecer en el trato y comunicación entre españoles e indios, México, Henrico Martínez, 1611. Arenas, Pedro de, “Vocabulario manual de las lenguas castellana y mexicana, en que se contienen las palabras, preguntas,y respuestas mas comunes y ordinarias que se suelen ofrecer en el trato y comunicación entre españoles e indios”, facsímil digital de la ed. de 1611, en Biblioteca Digital Mundial (http://www.wdl.org/es/item/2836; actualización: 7 may. 2009; acceso: 29 sep. 2009). Arenas, Pedro de, “Vocabulario manual de las lenguas castellana y mexicana, en que se contienen las palabras, preguntas,y respuestas mas comunes y ordinarias que se suelen ofrecer en el trato, comunicación entre españoles e indios”, facsímil digital de la ed. de 1683, en Memoria chilena, portal de la cultura de Chile, Santiago, Dirección de Bibliotecas, Archivos y Museos, sin fecha (http://www.memoriachilena.cl/temas/documento_detalle.asp?id=MC0042356; acceso: 7 nov. 2009). Arenas, Pedro de, “Vocabulario manual de las lenguas castellana y mexicana, en que se contienen las palabras, preguntas,y respuestas mas comunes y ordinarias que se suelen ofrecer en el trato y comunicación entre españoles e indios”, facsímil de la ed. de 1611, en Obras clásicas sobre la lengua náhuatl, ed. digital, Ascensión Hernández de León-Portilla, compiladora, Madrid, Fundación Histórica Tavera/Mapfre Mutualidad/Digibis, 1998. Arenas, Pedro de, Vocabulario manual de las lenguas castellana y mexicana, facsímil de la ed. de 1611, estudio de Ascensión Hernández de León-Portilla, México, Instituto de Investigaciones Filológicas/Instituto de Investigaciones Históricas, Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México, 1982. The art of Nahuatl speech: the Bancroft dialogues, Frances Karttunen & James Lockhart, editores, Los Ángeles, UCLA Latin American Center Publications, 1987. Bierhorst, John, A Nahuatl-English dictionary and concordance to the Cantares mexicanos, with an analytic transcription and grammatical notes, Stanford, Stanford University Press, 1985. Bierhorst, John, “A Nahuatl-English dictionary and concordance to the Cantares mexicanos, with an analytic transcription and grammatical notes”, facsímil de la ed. de 1985, en Ballads of the lords of New Spain, ed. digital, John Bierhorst, editor y traductor, Austin, University of Texas Press, 2009 (http://utdi.org/book/pdf/dictionary.pdf; acceso: 7 ene. 2010). Campbell, R. Joe; Karttunen, Frances, Foundation course in Nahuatl grammar, volume 1: Text and exercises, ed. xerográfica, Missoula, The University of Montana, 1989a. Campbell, R. Joe; Karttunen, Frances, Foundation course in Nahuatl grammar, volume 2: Vocabulary and key, ed. xerográfica, Missoula, The University of Montana, 1989b. Carochi, Horacio, Arte de la lengua mexicana con la declaración de los adverbios della, México, Juan Ruiz, 1645. Carochi, Horacio, Arte de la lengua mexicana con la declaración de los adverbios della, facsímil de la ed. de 1645, Miguel León-Portilla, editor, México, Instituto de Investigaciones Filológicas/Instituto de Investigaciones Históricas, Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México, 1983. Carochi, Horacio, “Arte de la lengua mexicana con la declaración de los adverbios della”, facsímil digital de la ed. de 1645, en Google books (http://books.google.com/books?id=lIACAAAAQAAJ; acceso: 27 sep. 2011). Carochi, Horacio, “Arte de la lengua mexicana con la declaración de los adverbios della”, facsímil digital de la ed. de 1645, en Internet Archive (http://www.archive.org/details/artedelalenguam00caro; actualización: 31 ago. 2011; acceso: 27 sep. 2011). Carochi, Horacio, “Arte de la lengua mexicana con la declaración de los adverbios della”, facsímil de la ed. de 1645, en Obras clásicas sobre la lengua náhuatl, ed. digital, Ascensión Hernández de León-Portilla, compiladora, Madrid, Fundación Histórica Tavera/Mapfre Mutualidad/Digibis, 1998. Carochi, Horacio, “Arte de la lengua mexicana con la declaración de los adverbios della”, facsímil digital de la ed. de 1892, en Internet Archive (http://www.archive.org/details/artedelalenguame00carouoft; actualización: 6 feb. 2009; acceso: 20 sep. 2011). Carochi, Horacio, “Arte de la lengua mexicana con la declaración de los adverbios della”, en Colección de gramáticas de la lengua mexicana, vol. 1, Francisco del Paso y Troncoso y Luis González Obregón, editores, México, Museo Nacional de México, 1904, pp. 395-536 (facsímil en Anales del Museo Nacional de México, colección completa, 1877-1977, ed. digital, México/Madrid, Instituto Nacional de Antropología e Historia/Fundación Mapfre Tavera/Digibis, 2002). Carochi, Horacio, Grammar of the Mexican language with an explanation of its adverbs (1645), James Lockhart, traductor y editor, Stanford/Los Ángeles, Stanford University Press/UCLA Latin American Center Publications, 2001. Clavijero, Francisco Javier, Reglas de la lengua mexicana con un vocabulario, Arthur J. O. Anderson, editor, México, Instituto de Investigaciones Históricas, Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México, 1974. Garibay Kintana, Ángel María, Llave del náhuatl, colección de trozos clásicos, con gramática y vocabulario náhuatl-castellano, para utilidad de los principiantes, 7a. ed., México, Editorial Porrúa, 1999. Hernández de León-Portilla, Ascensión, “Introducción”, en Obras clásicas sobre la lengua náhuatl, ed. digital, Ascensión Hernández de León-Portilla, compiladora, Madrid, Fundación Histórica Tavera/Mapfre Mutualidad/Digibis, 1998. Karttunen, Frances, An analytical dictionary of Nahuatl, Austin, University of Texas Press, 1983a. Karttunen, Frances, An analytical dictionary of Nahuatl, 2a. ed., Norman, University of Oklahoma Press, 1992. Karttunen, Frances, “Computer-assisted compilation of a Nahuatl dictionary”, en Computers and the Humanities (North-Holland Publishing Company), vol. 17, 1983b, pp. 175-184. Launey, Michel, Catégories et opérations dans la grammaire nahuatl, 2 vols., tesis doctoral, París, Université de Paris IV, 1986 (facsímil digital en el sitio web Nahuatl learning environment: http://www.balsas-nahuatl.org/electronic-docs; acceso: 14 mar. 2009). Launey, Michel, Catégories et opérations dans la grammaire nahuatl, 2 vols., tesis doctoral, París, Université de Paris IV, 1986 (facsímil digital en Centre National de la Recherche Scientifique: http://www.vjf.cnrs.fr/celia/FichExt/Etudes/Launey/tm.htm; acceso: 14 mar. 2009). Launey, Michel, Introducción a la lengua y a la literatura náhuatl, Cristina Kraft, traductora, México, Instituto de Investigaciones Antropológicas, Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México, 1992 (http://www.balsas-nahuatl.org/electronic-docs; acceso: 27 feb. 2009). Launey, Michel, Introduction à la langue et à la littérature aztèques, tome 1 : grammaire, reimpresión de la ed. de 1979, París, L’Harmattan, 1995. Launey, Michel, An introduction to Classical Nahuatl, Christopher Mackay, traductor, Nueva York, Cambridge University Press, 2011. León-Portilla, Miguel, “Estudio introductorio”, en Horacio Carochi, Arte de la lengua mexicana con la declaración de los adverbios della, facsímil de la ed. de 1645, Miguel León-Portilla, editor, México, Instituto de Investigaciones Filológicas/Instituto de Investigaciones Históricas, Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México, 1983, pp. vii-lxix. Lockhart, James, “Editor’s preface”, en Horacio Carochi, Grammar of the Mexican language with an explanation of its adverbs (1645), James Lockhart, traductor y editor, Stanford/Los Ángeles, Stanford University Press/UCLA Latin American Center Publications, 2001, pp. vii-xxii. Lockhart, James, Nahuatl as written, lessons in older written nahuatl, with copious examples and texts, Stanford/Los Ángeles, Stanford University Press/UCLA Latin American Center Publications, 2001. Molina, Alonso de, Aquí comiença un vocabulario en la lengua castellana y mexicana, México, Casa de Juan Pablos, 1555. Molina, Alonso de, “Aquí comiença un vocabulario en la lengua castellana y mexicana”, facsímil de la ed. de 1555, en Obras clásicas sobre la lengua náhuatl, ed. digital, Ascensión Hernández de León-Portilla, compiladora, Madrid, Fundación Histórica Tavera/Mapfre Mutualidad/Digibis, 1998. Molina, Alonso de, “Aquí comienca [sic] un vocabulario en la lengua castellana y mexicana”, facsímil digital de la ed. de 1555, en Biblioteca Virtual Miguel de Cervantes (Fundación Biblioteca Virtual Miguel de Cervantes) (http://www.cervantesvirtual.com/FichaObra.html?Ref=22559; actualización: 2006; acceso: 29 sep. 2009). Molina, Alonso de, “Arte de la lengua mexicana y castellana”, facsímil de la ed. de 1571, en Obras clásicas sobre la lengua náhuatl, ed. digital, Ascensión Hernández de León-Portilla, compiladora, Madrid, Fundación Histórica Tavera/Mapfre Mutualidad/Digibis, 1998. Molina, Alonso de, “Arte de la lengua mexicana y castellana”, facsímil digital de la ed. de 1571, en Biblioteca Virtual Miguel de Cervantes (http://www.cervantesvirtual.com/FichaObra.html?Ref=13906; actualización: 2005; acceso: 29 sep. 2009). Molina, Alonso de, “Arte de la lengua mexicana y castellana”, facsímil de la ed. de 1571, en Colección de gramáticas de la lengua mexicana, vol. 1, Francisco del Paso y Troncoso y Luis González Obregón, editores, México, Museo Nacional de México, 1904, pp. 127-223 (facsímil en Anales del Museo Nacional de México, colección completa, 1877-1977, ed. digital, México/Madrid, Instituto Nacional de Antropología e Historia/Fundación Mapfre Tavera/Digibis, 2002). Molina, Alonso de, “Arte de la lengua mexicana y castellana”, facsímil digital de la ed. de 1571, en Memoria chilena, portal de la cultura de Chile, Santiago, Dirección de Bibliotecas, Archivos y Museos, sin fecha (http://www.memoriachilena.cl/temas/documento_detalle.asp?id=MC0033260; acceso: 7 nov. 2009). Molina, Alonso de, “Confessionario breve, en lengua mexicana y castellana”, facsímil de la ed. de 1565, en Obras clásicas sobre la lengua náhuatl, ed. digital, Ascensión Hernández de León-Portilla, compiladora, Madrid, Fundación Histórica Tavera/Mapfre Mutualidad/Digibis, 1998. Molina, Alonso de, “Confesionario mayor, en lengua mexicana y castellana”, facsímil de la ed. de 1565, en Obras clásicas sobre la lengua náhuatl, ed. digital, Ascensión Hernández de León-Portilla, compiladora, Madrid, Fundación Histórica Tavera/Mapfre Mutualidad/Digibis, 1998. Molina, Alonso de, Confesionario mayor, en lengua mexicana y castellana (1569), facsímil de la ed. de 1569, introducción de Roberto Moreno, Instituto de Investigaciones Filológicas/Instituto de Investigaciones Antropológicas, Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México, 1984. Molina, Alonso de, “Confesionario mayor, en lengua mexicana y castellana”, facsímil de la ed. de 1569, estudio de Roberto Moreno, en Boletín del Instituto de Investigaciones Bibliográficas (Instituto de Investigaciones Bibliográficas, Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México), no. 7, ene.-jun. 1972. Molina, Alonso de, Vocabulario de la lengua mexicana, pseudofacsímil del Vocabulario en lengua castellana y mexicana y del Vocabulario en lengua mexicana y castellana de 1571, Julio Platzmann, editor, Leipzig, B. G. Teubner, 1880. Molina, Alonso de, “Vocabulario de la lengua mexicana”, facsímil digital de la ed. de 1880, en Memoria chilena, portal de la cultura de Chile, Santiago, Dirección de Bibliotecas, Archivos y Museos, sin fecha (http://www.memoriachilena.cl/temas/documento_detalle.asp?id=MC0033259; acceso: 7 nov. 2009). Molina, Alonso de, Vocabulario en lengua castellana y mexicana, México, Casa de Antonio de Espinosa, 1571. Molina, Alonso de, Vocabulario en lengua mexicana y castellana, México, Casa de Antonio de Espinosa, 1571. Molina, Alonso de, “Vocabulario en lengua castellana y mexicana/Vocabulario en lengua mexicana y castellana”, facsímil de las eds. de 1571, en Obras clásicas sobre la lengua náhuatl, ed. digital, Ascensión Hernández de León-Portilla, compiladora, Madrid, Fundación Histórica Tavera/Mapfre Mutualidad/Digibis, 1998. Molina, Alonso de, Vocabulario en lengua castellana y mexicana y mexicana y castellana, 3a. ed. facsimilar de la ed. de 1880, estudio de Miguel León-Portilla, México, Editorial Porrúa, 1992. Molina, Alonso de, Vocabulario en lengua castellana y mexicana y mexicana y castellana, 5a. ed. facsimilar de la ed. de 1880, estudio de Miguel León-Portilla, México, Editorial Porrúa, 2004. Nahuatl theater, volume 3, Spanish Golden Age drama in Mexican translation, Barry D. Sell, Louise M. Burkhart y Elizabet R. Wright, editores, Norman, University of Oklahoma Press, 2008. Rincón, Antonio del, Arte mexicana, México, Casa de Pedro Balli, 1595. Rincón, Antonio del, “Arte mexicana”, facsímil de la ed. de 1595, en Obras clásicas sobre la lengua náhuatl, ed. digital, Ascensión Hernández de León-Portilla, compiladora, Madrid, Fundación Histórica Tavera/Mapfre Mutualidad/Digibis, 1998. Rincón, Antonio del, Arte mexicana, Antonio Peñafiel, editor, México, Secretaría de Fomento, 1885. Rincón, Antonio del, “Arte mexicana”, en Colección de gramáticas de la lengua mexicana, vol. 1, Francisco del Paso y Troncoso y Luis González Obregón, editores, México, Museo Nacional de México, 1904, pp. 225-280 (facsímil en Anales del Museo Nacional de México, colección completa, 1877-1977, ed. digital, México/Madrid, Instituto Nacional de Antropología e Historia/Fundación Mapfre Tavera/Digibis, 2002). Rincón, Antonio del, “Arte mexicana”, facsímil digital de la ed. de 1885, Antonio Peñafiel, editor, en Colección digital UANL (Universidad Autónoma de Nuevo León) (http://cdigital.dgb.uanl.mx/la/1080018793/1080018793.html; acceso: 16 jul. 2011). Rincón, Antonio del, “Arte mexicana”, facsímil digital de la ed. de 1885, Antonio Peñafiel, editor, en Internet Archive (http://www.archive.org/details/artemexicana00rincrich&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8.; actualización: 17 mar. 2010; acceso: 21 nov. 2011). Sahagún, Bernardino de, Códice florentino, facsímil del ms., 3 vols., México, Secretaría de Gobernación, 1979. Sahagún, Bernardino de, Florentine codex, general history of the things of New Spain, 1a. ed./2a. ed./reimpresión, 13 partes en 12 vols., Arthur J. O. Anderson y Charles E. Dibble, editores y traductores, Santa Fe/Salt Lake City, The School of American Research/The University of Utah, 1974-1982. Schwaller, John Frederick, “Forword”, en Nahuatl theater, volume 3, Spanish Golden Age drama in Mexican translation, Barry D. Sell, Louise M. Burkhart y Elizabet R. Wright, editores, Norman, University of Oklahoma Press, 2008, pp. xi-xiii. Schwaller, John Frederick, Guías de manuscritos en náhuatl [Guides to Nahuatl manuscripts], The Newberry Library (Chicago), The Latin American Library (Tulane University), The Bancroft Library (Berkeley), México, Instituto de Investigaciones Históricas, Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México, 1987. Schwaller, John Frederick, A guide to Nahuatl language manuscripts held in United States repositories, Berkeley, Academy of American Franciscan History, 2001. Schwaller, John Frederick, “Nahuatl studies and the ‘circle’ of Horacio Carochi”, en Estudios de Cultura Nahuatl (Instituto de Investigaciones Históricas, Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México), vol. 24, 1994, pp. 387-398 (http://www.historicas.unam.mx/publicaciones/revistas/nahuatl/pdf/ecn24/441. pdf; acceso: 20 jul. 2012). Sell, Barry D., “Nahuatl plays”, en Sources and methods for the study of postconquest Mesoamerican ethnohistory, edición digital provisional, James Lockhart, Lisa Sousa y Stephanie Wood, editores, Eugene, Wired Humanities Project, University of Oregon, 2007 (http://whp.uoregon.edu/Lockhart/index.html; acceso: 12 dic. 2011). Siméon, Rémi, Diccionario de la lengua náhuatl o mexicana, redactado según los documentos impresos y manuscritos más auténticos y precedido de una introducción, 15a. ed., Josefina Oliva de Coll, traductora, México, Siglo Veintiuno Editores, 1999. Smith Stark, Thomas C., “Rincón y Carochi: la tradición jesuítica de descripción del náhuatl”, en Las gramáticas misioneras de tradición hispánica (siglos XVI-XVII), Otto Zwartjes, editor, Amsterdam/Atlanta, Editions Rodopi, 2000, pp. 29-72. Sullivan, Thelma D., Compendio de la gramática náhuatl, 1a. reimpresión de la 1a. ed., México, Instituto de Investigaciones Históricas, Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México, 1983. Sullivan, Thelma D., Compendio de la gramática náhuatl, 2a. reimpresión de la 2a. ed., México, Instituto de Investigaciones Históricas, Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México, 1998. Torquemada, Juan de, Monarquía indiana, de los veinte y un libros rituales y monarquía indiana, con el origen y guerras de los indios occidentales, de sus poblazones, descubrimiento, conquista, conversión y otras cosas maravillosas de la mesma tierra, 7 vols., Miguel León-Portilla, coordinador, México, Instituto de Investigaciones Históricas, Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México, 1975-1983. Torquemada, Juan de, Monarquía indiana, de los veinte y un libros rituales y monarquía indiana, con el origen y guerras de los indios occidentales, de sus poblazones, descubrimiento, conquista, conversión y otras cosas maravillosas de la mesma tierra, ed. digital, Miguel León-Portilla, coordinador, México, Instituto de Investigaciones Históricas, Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México, 2010 (http://www.iih.unam.mx/publicaciones/publicadigital/monarquia/index.html#; acceso: 4 jun. 2011). Wolf, Paul P. de, Diccionario español-náhuatl, México/La Paz, Instituto de Investigaciones Históricas, Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México/Fideicomiso Teixidor/Universidad Autónoma de Baja California Sur, 2003. Wright Carr, David Charles, Lectura del náhuatl, fundamentos para la traducción de los textos en náhuatl del periodo Novohispano Temprano, México, Instituto Nacional de Lenguas Indígenas, 2007. ******************************************************************* -----Mensaje original----- De: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org [mailto:nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org] En nombre de Michael McCafferty Enviado el: viernes, 20 de julio de 2012 06:00 Para: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org Asunto: Re: [Nahuat-l] Carochi Quoting "John F. Schwaller" : > > Dear all, > > Fran Karttunen based her Dictionary on sources written using the Carochi > system, and others where vowel length and the glottal stop were marked. Yes, indeed! > > The three plays held in the Bancroft Library and published by Burkhart and > Sell also use the system but on a slightly more haphazard basis. I see. But is the *use* of Carochi's glottal stop indications widespread? Or is it limited to Carochi himself and the Bancroft material? Ca c'est la question. Thanks, Fritz! Michael One additional question for all that someone asked me: "Carochi's text, do you have a source where I can buy it and also the Porrua 3 volumes of Torquemada's Monarquia India? Amazon is not helpful and keeps sending me to re-print houses by Porrua's edition in both cases is what I prefer." Tlaxtlahui. Michael _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From gwhitta4 at googlemail.com Fri Jul 20 22:18:25 2012 From: gwhitta4 at googlemail.com (Gordon Whittaker) Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 00:18:25 +0200 Subject: Carochi and Ruiz de Alarc=?gb2312?Q?=A8=AEn?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Michael, One of the scribes of the Ruiz de Alarcón manuscript used the system championed by Rincón and especially by Carochi, in which glottal stops are indicated. You will find all the details in the Coe and Whittaker edition, in which I went to pains to reconstruct the orthographical and language habits of the individual scribes. Incidentally, for the record, the edition originally submitted around the same time by Andrews and Hassig failed to include any such observations, since they had not at the time seen, let alone worked from, the original R de A manuscript. After being alerted to our study of the original, which we published shortly afterwards (a couple of years before their edition appeared), they added the information that we had already covered -- but maintained a curious silence on this fact. Indeed, their published edition fails to make any reference at all to our volume, even in their bibliography, although they were well acquainted with our work. Somewhat dismaying, because I would have expected more from a distinguished colleague like Andrews. Best wishes, Gordon > > Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 15:39:13 -0400 > From: Michael McCafferty > To: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > Subject: [Nahuat-l] Carochi > > Can anyone tell if Carochi's glottal stop markers are used in (many) > other primary sources? > > Thank you! > > Michael _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From Ian.Mursell at btinternet.com Thu Jul 26 20:50:13 2012 From: Ian.Mursell at btinternet.com (Ian Mursell) Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2012 21:50:13 +0100 Subject: any teachers/speakers of N=?iso-8859-1?Q?=E1huatl_?=in the United Kingdom? Message-ID: Piyali listeros, Greetings from sunny Olympic London! Occasionally we receive enquiries here in the UK from individuals looking for teachers and or speakers of Náhuatl in this country, and I have been meaning for some time to ask members of this list if they have any leads that we could follow up, or indeed if there are list members who are themselves Náhuatl experts. Any information/guidance would be warmly welcomed. Thanks in anticipation and muchos saludos, Ian Ian Mursell Mexicolore, London www.aztecs.org _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From schwallr at potsdam.edu Tue Jul 31 12:45:44 2012 From: schwallr at potsdam.edu (John F. Schwaller) Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2012 08:45:44 -0400 Subject: Exhibit at Dallas Message-ID: The Dallas Museum of Art has a show "The Legacy of the Plume Serpent in Ancient Mexico" July 29-Nov. 25. For details see: http://artdaily.com/index.asp?int_sec=2&int_new=56831#.UBfSwLRSTng -- John F. Schwaller President SUNY Potsdam 44 Pierrepont Ave. Potsdam, NY 13676 schwallr at potsdam.edu tel: 315-265-2100 fax 315-265-2496 _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From tekuani at hotmail.es Tue Jul 3 21:57:57 2012 From: tekuani at hotmail.es (Jacinto Acatecatl) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2012 16:57:57 -0500 Subject: Radio Indigena en Zongolica Ver. Message-ID: Panolte Tehhuatzin, ahi les mando esta link para que puedan escuchar la radio indigena de zongolica que trasmite en n?huatl (Zona Centro del Edo de Veracruz M?xico) y espa?ol, de 6 am a 6 pm solo tiene que bajar el programa de RealPlayer y asi de f?cil Atrevanse a escuchar musica alterna. http://ecos.cdi.gob.mx/xezon.html _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Tue Jul 10 13:04:06 2012 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2012 09:04:06 -0400 Subject: Michel Launey Message-ID: Does anyone out there use the English translation of Launey's grammar in herhis classroom? Thank you. Michael McCafferty _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From gwhitta4 at googlemail.com Tue Jul 10 17:59:32 2012 From: gwhitta4 at googlemail.com (Gordon Whittaker) Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2012 19:59:32 +0200 Subject: Michel Launey In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Michael! Yep, sure do. And I like what I see there (although I would have preferred the consistent use of an apostrophe or h for the glottal stop throughout, instead of using phonetic, rather than phonemic, acute and grave accents). Launey and his translator have done an admirable job of presenting Nahuatl in an understandable and accessible manner to the educated public. The problem with Andrews, apart from his excessively prescriptive attitude, is that he consciously tries to make Nahuatl seem as foreign as possible, as an overreaction to earlier attempts to Europeanize Nahuatl. The lessons are well arranged, not too long, and provided with sufficient exercises. I'm satisfied that this is the best teaching grammar that has so far appeared, one that will surely nurture enthusiasts. The latter can afterwards cut their teeth on Andrews and Carochi, or move on to modern dialect grammars. Thumbs up on Launey! Best wishes, Gordon Sent from my iPad > > Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2012 09:04:06 -0400 > From: Michael McCafferty > To: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > Subject: [Nahuat-l] Michel Launey > > Does anyone out there use the English translation of Launey's grammar > in herhis classroom? > > Thank you. > > Michael McCafferty _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From lahunik.62 at skynet.be Thu Jul 12 22:57:17 2012 From: lahunik.62 at skynet.be (lahunik.62 at skynet.be) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 00:57:17 +0200 Subject: Launey's dictionary Message-ID: Vol.265.Issue 1 Message 1 To Michael McCafferty I use Launey's work translated in French. But I use Launey's work translated in Spanish by Cristina Kraft too, with the exercises. Unfortunately I couldn't download all the solutions of the exercises. Lahun ik 62 Baert Georges Flanders Fields _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From marc.eisinger at laposte.net Fri Jul 13 17:52:15 2012 From: marc.eisinger at laposte.net (Marc Eisinger) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 19:52:15 +0200 Subject: Launey's work In-Reply-To: Message-ID: A side remark : Launey's work was never translated in French. He is French and wrote it in French. Marc Eisinger > Message du 13/07/12 19:00 > De : nahuatl-request at lists.famsi.org > A : nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > Copie ? : > Objet : Nahuatl Digest, Vol 265, Issue 3 > > Send Nahuatl mailing list submissions to > nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > nahuatl-request at lists.famsi.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > nahuatl-owner at lists.famsi.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Nahuatl digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Launey's dictionary (lahunik.62 at skynet.be) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 00:57:17 +0200 > From: > To: ,"Nahuatl List" > Subject: [Nahuat-l] Launey's dictionary > Message-ID: <1F371E6026BD455BABB3012BCA3352F6 at baert> > Content-Type: text/plain;charset="us-ascii" > > Vol.265.Issue 1 > > Message 1 > > To Michael McCafferty > > I use Launey's work translated in French. > > But I use Launey's work translated in Spanish by Cristina Kraft too, with > the exercises. > > Unfortunately I couldn't download all the solutions of the exercises. > > Lahun ik 62 > > Baert Georges > > Flanders Fields > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > > > End of Nahuatl Digest, Vol 265, Issue 3 > *************************************** > Une messagerie gratuite, garantie ? vie et des services en plus, ?a vous tente ? Je cr?e ma bo?te mail www.laposte.net _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From campbel at indiana.edu Mon Jul 16 03:44:35 2012 From: campbel at indiana.edu (Campbell, R. Joe) Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2012 23:44:35 -0400 Subject: One word or two?? Message-ID: Nocnihuan, I have a simple question: in the following entries from Molina, is "coztic" a separate word or part of the longer word? Thanks for your "parecer", Joe cozticteocuitlacohualoni (cozticteocuitlacohualoni). moneda de oro. 55m-14| cozticteocuitlacozcapetlatl (cozticteocuitlacozcapetlatl). collar de oro; collar ancho de^oro. 55m-3| cozticteocuitlacozcatl (cozticteocuitlacozcatl). joya de oro. 71m2-5| cozticteocuitlahuah (cozticteocuitlahuah). platero que labra oro. 55m-16| cozticteocuitlamachiyotl (cozticteocuitlamachiyotl). quilate de oro. 55m-16| cozticteocuitlamachiyotia =ni (cozticteocuitlamachiyotia =ni). quilate dar al oro. 55m-16| cozticteocuitlamachiyotl (cozticteocuitlamachiyotl) [scribal error: ??01|printing error: teocuirlamachiyotl for teocuitlamachiyotl: 71m1]. quilate de oro. 71m1-181| cozticteocuitlamachiyotia =ni (cozticteocuitlamachiyotia =ni). quilate dar al oro. 71m1-181| cozticteocuitlaneliuhcayotl (cozticteocuitlaneliuhcayotl). liga en el oro; liga enel oro. 55m-12| cozticteocuitlaoztotl (cozticteocuitlaoztotl). minero de oro. 55m-14| cozticteocuitlapitzqui (cozticteocuitlapitzqui). platero que labra oro. 55m-16| cozticteocuitlapopozoquillotl (cozticteocuitlapopozoquillotl). espuma de oro; espuma o escoria de oro. +ly>ll>. 55m-9| cozticteocuitlaquixtiloyan (cozticteocuitlaquixtiloyan). minero de oro. >. 55m-14| cozticteocuitlatecomatl (cozticteocuitlatecomatl). vaso de oro. 55m-19| cozticteocuitlatl (cozticteocuitlatl). oro. 55m-15| cozticteocuitlatlaneliuhcayotl (cozticteocuitlatlaneliuhcayotl). liga en el oro. 55m-12| cozticteocuitlatlatemantli (cozticteocuitlatlatemantli). pieza o moneda de oro. 55m-16| cozticteocuitlatlaneliuhcayotl (cozticteocuitlatlaneliuhcayotl). liga enel oro. 71m1-141| cozticteocuitlatlatemantli (cozticteocuitlatlatemantli). pieza o moneda de oro; pieza o tejuelo doro. 71m1-171| cozticteocuitlatomin (cozticteocuitlatomin) [scribal error: ??01|printing error: taocuitlatomin for teocuitlatomin: 55m]. moneda de oro. 55m-14| cozticteocuitlatomin (cozticteocuitlatomin). moneda de oro. 71m1-152| cozticteocuitlaxaltetl (cozticteocuitlaxaltetl). grano de oro. 55m-10| _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Mon Jul 16 13:33:42 2012 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 09:33:42 -0400 Subject: One word or two?? In-Reply-To: <20120715234435.pb2fpxx5skkc4oss@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: Sorry. I should have saved all my thoughts for one message. Two words. Coztic is really a past tense verb, and you can't tack a verb like that onto the front of a noun. Michael Quoting "Campbell, R. Joe" : > Nocnihuan, > > I have a simple question: in the following entries from Molina, is > "coztic" a separate word or part of the longer word? > > Thanks for your "parecer", > > Joe > > > > cozticteocuitlacohualoni (cozticteocuitlacohualoni). moneda de oro. > 55m-14| > > cozticteocuitlacozcapetlatl (cozticteocuitlacozcapetlatl). collar de > oro; collar ancho de^oro. 55m-3| > > cozticteocuitlacozcatl (cozticteocuitlacozcatl). joya de oro. 71m2-5| > > cozticteocuitlahuah (cozticteocuitlahuah). platero que labra oro. > 55m-16| > > cozticteocuitlamachiyotl (cozticteocuitlamachiyotl). quilate de oro. > 55m-16| > > cozticteocuitlamachiyotia =ni (cozticteocuitlamachiyotia =ni). > quilate dar al oro. 55m-16| > > cozticteocuitlamachiyotl (cozticteocuitlamachiyotl) [scribal error: > ??01|printing error: teocuirlamachiyotl for teocuitlamachiyotl: > 71m1]. quilate de oro. > 71m1-181| > > cozticteocuitlamachiyotia =ni (cozticteocuitlamachiyotia =ni). > quilate dar al oro. 71m1-181| > > cozticteocuitlaneliuhcayotl (cozticteocuitlaneliuhcayotl). liga en el > oro; liga enel oro. 55m-12| > > cozticteocuitlaoztotl (cozticteocuitlaoztotl). minero de oro. 55m-14| > > cozticteocuitlapitzqui (cozticteocuitlapitzqui). platero que labra > oro. 55m-16| > > cozticteocuitlapopozoquillotl (cozticteocuitlapopozoquillotl). espuma > de oro; espuma o escoria de oro. +ly>ll>. 55m-9| > > cozticteocuitlaquixtiloyan (cozticteocuitlaquixtiloyan). minero de > oro. >. 55m-14| > > cozticteocuitlatecomatl (cozticteocuitlatecomatl). vaso de oro. > 55m-19| > > cozticteocuitlatl (cozticteocuitlatl). oro. 55m-15| > > cozticteocuitlatlaneliuhcayotl (cozticteocuitlatlaneliuhcayotl). liga > en el oro. 55m-12| > > cozticteocuitlatlatemantli (cozticteocuitlatlatemantli). pieza o > moneda de oro. 55m-16| > > cozticteocuitlatlaneliuhcayotl (cozticteocuitlatlaneliuhcayotl). liga > enel oro. 71m1-141| > > cozticteocuitlatlatemantli (cozticteocuitlatlatemantli). pieza o > moneda de oro; pieza o tejuelo doro. 71m1-171| > > cozticteocuitlatomin (cozticteocuitlatomin) [scribal error: > ??01|printing error: taocuitlatomin for teocuitlatomin: 55m]. > moneda de oro. 55m-14| > > cozticteocuitlatomin (cozticteocuitlatomin). moneda de oro. 71m1-152| > > cozticteocuitlaxaltetl (cozticteocuitlaxaltetl). grano de oro. > 55m-10| > > > > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From idiez at me.com Mon Jul 16 14:36:23 2012 From: idiez at me.com (IDIEZ) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 07:36:23 -0700 Subject: One word or two?? In-Reply-To: <20120716093342.n59i0f4j4ogso488@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: Piyali notequixpoyohuan, Normally coztic would be the free form and coztica- would be the combining form. However, this is called into question by Joe's examples. If we say that the form of the fourth example is coztic teocuitlahuah, it would mean that the person is yellow, not the imbedded noun of the -huah agentive. There are other instances where adjective/adverbs ending in -c are attached to a noun or verb root without first going back to the older -ca form. One, along the same line here, is chichiltictepozquixtiloyan, incorrectly translated in Molina or Sahag?n (Joe can clarify this) as copper miner (it is also possibly incorrectly separated as chichiltic tepozquixtiloyan, in the original text; again Joe can chime in here). It should be copper mine, and obviously, if we divide it into chichiltic tepozquixtiloyan, it would mean a red iron-mine instead of the preferred red-iron mine. There are examples with more commonly used words. I just can`t think of any right now. John On Jul 16, 2012, at 6:33 AM, Michael McCafferty wrote: > > Sorry. I should have saved all my thoughts for one message. > > Two words. > > Coztic is really a past tense verb, and you can't tack a verb like that onto the front of a noun. > > Michael > > Quoting "Campbell, R. Joe" : > >> Nocnihuan, >> >> I have a simple question: in the following entries from Molina, is >> "coztic" a separate word or part of the longer word? >> >> Thanks for your "parecer", >> >> Joe >> >> >> >> cozticteocuitlacohualoni (cozticteocuitlacohualoni). moneda de oro. >> 55m-14| >> >> cozticteocuitlacozcapetlatl (cozticteocuitlacozcapetlatl). collar de >> oro; collar ancho de^oro. 55m-3| >> >> cozticteocuitlacozcatl (cozticteocuitlacozcatl). joya de oro. 71m2-5| >> >> cozticteocuitlahuah (cozticteocuitlahuah). platero que labra oro. >> 55m-16| >> >> cozticteocuitlamachiyotl (cozticteocuitlamachiyotl). quilate de oro. >> 55m-16| >> >> cozticteocuitlamachiyotia =ni (cozticteocuitlamachiyotia =ni). >> quilate dar al oro. 55m-16| >> >> cozticteocuitlamachiyotl (cozticteocuitlamachiyotl) [scribal error: >> ??01|printing error: teocuirlamachiyotl for teocuitlamachiyotl: >> 71m1]. quilate de oro. >> 71m1-181| >> >> cozticteocuitlamachiyotia =ni (cozticteocuitlamachiyotia =ni). >> quilate dar al oro. 71m1-181| >> >> cozticteocuitlaneliuhcayotl (cozticteocuitlaneliuhcayotl). liga en el >> oro; liga enel oro. 55m-12| >> >> cozticteocuitlaoztotl (cozticteocuitlaoztotl). minero de oro. 55m-14| >> >> cozticteocuitlapitzqui (cozticteocuitlapitzqui). platero que labra >> oro. 55m-16| >> >> cozticteocuitlapopozoquillotl (cozticteocuitlapopozoquillotl). espuma >> de oro; espuma o escoria de oro. +ly>ll>. 55m-9| >> >> cozticteocuitlaquixtiloyan (cozticteocuitlaquixtiloyan). minero de >> oro. >. 55m-14| >> >> cozticteocuitlatecomatl (cozticteocuitlatecomatl). vaso de oro. >> 55m-19| >> >> cozticteocuitlatl (cozticteocuitlatl). oro. 55m-15| >> >> cozticteocuitlatlaneliuhcayotl (cozticteocuitlatlaneliuhcayotl). liga >> en el oro. 55m-12| >> >> cozticteocuitlatlatemantli (cozticteocuitlatlatemantli). pieza o >> moneda de oro. 55m-16| >> >> cozticteocuitlatlaneliuhcayotl (cozticteocuitlatlaneliuhcayotl). liga >> enel oro. 71m1-141| >> >> cozticteocuitlatlatemantli (cozticteocuitlatlatemantli). pieza o >> moneda de oro; pieza o tejuelo doro. 71m1-171| >> >> cozticteocuitlatomin (cozticteocuitlatomin) [scribal error: >> ??01|printing error: taocuitlatomin for teocuitlatomin: 55m]. >> moneda de oro. 55m-14| >> >> cozticteocuitlatomin (cozticteocuitlatomin). moneda de oro. 71m1-152| >> >> cozticteocuitlaxaltetl (cozticteocuitlaxaltetl). grano de oro. >> 55m-10| >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Nahuatl mailing list >> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org >> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From campbel at indiana.edu Mon Jul 16 22:25:58 2012 From: campbel at indiana.edu (Campbell, R. Joe) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 18:25:58 -0400 Subject: One word or two?? Message-ID: Michael, John, ihuan occequi nocnihuan, My problem originated because I agreed with Michael's intuition that adjectives in -tic, which originate in verbs and "dizque" form adjectives with the preterite -c, can hardly compound with the following word. When I read John's consideration of "compound vs. phrase", I decided to consider the issue more at length. In the meantime, I wanted to call attention to the willingness of Nahuatl to creep across word-formation lines and surprise us. I'll make a few comments on some of the examples below, but let the majority of them speak for themselves. The examples are from Molina and the Florentine. The "=" is used as a separator before the prefix and the preterite. The regularized form is given first and the original document form is enclosed in parentheses. Joe ***-ni is a verbal prefix, but crosses the line into "noundom". Note its willingness to "verb" in the same way that basic nouns do. aahuieniti (aahuieniti). she becomes a harlot. b.4 f.3 p.25| ahuiyaniti =n=onahuianitic (ahuianiti =n=onahuianitic). ser puta. 71m2-2| cuicuicaniti (cuicuicaniti). he becomes a singer. b.4 f.1 p.7| ** ***-ni forms -meh plural like a noun. ahuiyanimeh (ahuiyanimeh). harlots; pleasure girls. b.10 f.5 p.89| altianimeh , te- (te$altianimeh). bathers of slaves; bathers; slave bathers; ceremonial bather; those who bathe slaves. b.9 f.4 p.47| ananimeh , te- (te$ananimeh). escorts. b.9 f.5 p.61| ** ***-ni takes a diminutive suffix like a noun. cuicuicaniton (cuicuicanito). grillo especie de cigarra; grillo; especie de cigarra (idem). 55m-10| ehuatlepitzaloniton (ehuatlepitzalonito). fuelles peque?as; fuelles peque?as de organo peque?o. 55m-10| machtianiton =te (temachtianiton). maestro peque?o. 55m-13| matepoztlaximaloniton (matepoztlaximalonito). azuela peque?a. 55m-001| pohpohualoniton =tla (tlapohpohualonito). escoba peque?a o escobajo. 55m-8| tamachihualoniton =tla (tlatamachihualonito). libreta; medida peque?a. 71m1-141| tepozchihchiquillateconiton (tepozchihchiquillateconiton). sierra peque?a assi (assi is sierra de hierro para asserrar). 55m-18| tepozteihxilihuaniton (tepozteihxilihuaniton). pu?al peque?o. 55m-16| tepoztlacohualoniton (tepoztlacohualonito). marauedi; o blanca. 55m-13| tepoztlateconiton (tepoztlateconiton). segureja, peque?a segur. 71m1-191| tepoztlateconiton (tepoztlateconito). hachuela para cortar. 71m2-18| tetzotzonaloniton =tla (tlatetzotzonaloniton). mazo peque?o. 55m-12| tlahtoaniton (tlahtoaniton). rey peque?o. 55m-17| tlapoloniton =tla (tlatlapolonito). llaue peque?a. 71m2-24| tlazololololoniton (tlazololololonito). rastro peque?o assi (assi is rastro para rastrar paja). 71m2-20| ***-ni takes what used to be called a postposition (e.g., -tlah) tecuanitlah (tecuanitlah). place of wild beasts. b.11 f.25 p.256| tecuantlah (tecuantlah). place of wild beasts. b.10 f.12 p.188| ***-ni forms noun-noun compounds tecuannacatl (tecuannacatl). wild beast flesh. b.11 f.1 p.4| tecuannahuale (tecuannahuale). one is disguised as a wild beast. b.4 f.5 p.42| tecuantepecatl (tecuantepecatl). person from Tecuantepec. b.9 f.1 p.3| tecuantlacualtin (tecuantlacualtin). food for wild beasts. b.5 f.1 p.154| ***-ni "verbs" like a noun tecuantilia =nino (tecuantilia =nino). brauear assi (assi is braua cosa que muerde). 55m-2| *** from this point on, the arrangement is incomplete tecuantlalia , mo- (mo-tecuantlalia). he becomes brave. b.4 f.5 p.42| tecuantocatl (tecuantocatl). ara?a negra ponzo?osa; ara?a negra y ponzo?osa; ara?a ponza?osa. 55m-1| tecuantonaleh (tecuantonaleh). one who has the day sign of a wild beast. b.4 f.1 p.6| tecuantonalli (tecuantonalli). day sign of wild beasts; days of wild beasts; evil day sign. b.4 f.1 p.5| tecuantonalpan (tecuantonalpan). on an evil day sign. b.6 f.16 p.198| tecuanyo (tecuanyo). brave; fierce; having wild beasts; having man- eating animals. b.10 f.3 p.50| tecuanyohtoc (tecuanyohtoc). . b.4 f.7 p.66| tecuanyotihcac (tecuanyotihcac). it is full of wild beasts. b.11 f.26 p.267| tecuanyotitoc , mo- (mo$tecuanyotitoc). . b.4 f.7 p.66| tecuayoti , mo- (mo$tecuayoti). . b.6 f.2 p.15| tecuayoti , xic- (xic-tecuayoti). make it stern. b.6 f.5 p.53| tecuayoti , ximo- (ximo-tecuayoti). be stern. b.6 f.5 p.53| tecuayotili , xicmo- (xicmo-tecuayotili). . b.6 f.2 p.24| tecuayotl (tecuayotl). braueza, ferocidad, o crueldad de fieras brauas. 71m2-18| Quoting IDIEZ : > Piyali notequixpoyohuan, > Normally coztic would be the free form and coztica- would be the > combining form. However, this is called into question by Joe's > examples. If we say that the form of the fourth example is coztic > teocuitlahuah, it would mean that the person is yellow, not the > imbedded noun of the -huah agentive. > There are other instances where adjective/adverbs ending in -c are > attached to a noun or verb root without first going back to the older > -ca form. One, along the same line here, is > chichiltictepozquixtiloyan, incorrectly translated in Molina or > Sahag?n (Joe can clarify this) as copper miner (it is also possibly > incorrectly separated as chichiltic tepozquixtiloyan, in the > original text; again Joe can chime in here). It should be copper > mine, and obviously, if we divide it into chichiltic > tepozquixtiloyan, it would mean a red iron-mine instead of the > preferred red-iron mine. > There are examples with more commonly used words. I just can`t think > of any right now. > John > > > On Jul 16, 2012, at 6:33 AM, Michael McCafferty wrote: > >> >> Sorry. I should have saved all my thoughts for one message. >> >> Two words. >> >> Coztic is really a past tense verb, and you can't tack a verb like >> that onto the front of a noun. >> >> Michael >> >> Quoting "Campbell, R. Joe" : >> >>> Nocnihuan, >>> >>> I have a simple question: in the following entries from Molina, is >>> "coztic" a separate word or part of the longer word? >>> >>> Thanks for your "parecer", >>> >>> Joe >>> >>> >>> >>> cozticteocuitlacohualoni (cozticteocuitlacohualoni). moneda de oro. >>> 55m-14| >>> >>> cozticteocuitlacozcapetlatl (cozticteocuitlacozcapetlatl). collar de >>> oro; collar ancho de^oro. 55m-3| >>> >>> cozticteocuitlacozcatl (cozticteocuitlacozcatl). joya de oro. 71m2-5| >>> >>> cozticteocuitlahuah (cozticteocuitlahuah). platero que labra oro. >>> 55m-16| >>> >>> cozticteocuitlamachiyotl (cozticteocuitlamachiyotl). quilate de oro. >>> 55m-16| >>> >>> cozticteocuitlamachiyotia =ni (cozticteocuitlamachiyotia =ni). >>> quilate dar al oro. 55m-16| >>> >>> cozticteocuitlamachiyotl (cozticteocuitlamachiyotl) [scribal error: >>> ??01|printing error: teocuirlamachiyotl for teocuitlamachiyotl: >>> 71m1]. quilate de oro. >>> 71m1-181| >>> >>> cozticteocuitlamachiyotia =ni (cozticteocuitlamachiyotia =ni). >>> quilate dar al oro. 71m1-181| >>> >>> cozticteocuitlaneliuhcayotl (cozticteocuitlaneliuhcayotl). liga en el >>> oro; liga enel oro. 55m-12| >>> >>> cozticteocuitlaoztotl (cozticteocuitlaoztotl). minero de oro. 55m-14| >>> >>> cozticteocuitlapitzqui (cozticteocuitlapitzqui). platero que labra >>> oro. 55m-16| >>> >>> cozticteocuitlapopozoquillotl (cozticteocuitlapopozoquillotl). espuma >>> de oro; espuma o escoria de oro. +ly>ll>. 55m-9| >>> >>> cozticteocuitlaquixtiloyan (cozticteocuitlaquixtiloyan). minero de >>> oro. >. 55m-14| >>> >>> cozticteocuitlatecomatl (cozticteocuitlatecomatl). vaso de oro. >>> 55m-19| >>> >>> cozticteocuitlatl (cozticteocuitlatl). oro. 55m-15| >>> >>> cozticteocuitlatlaneliuhcayotl (cozticteocuitlatlaneliuhcayotl). liga >>> en el oro. 55m-12| >>> >>> cozticteocuitlatlatemantli (cozticteocuitlatlatemantli). pieza o >>> moneda de oro. 55m-16| >>> >>> cozticteocuitlatlaneliuhcayotl (cozticteocuitlatlaneliuhcayotl). liga >>> enel oro. 71m1-141| >>> >>> cozticteocuitlatlatemantli (cozticteocuitlatlatemantli). pieza o >>> moneda de oro; pieza o tejuelo doro. 71m1-171| >>> >>> cozticteocuitlatomin (cozticteocuitlatomin) [scribal error: >>> ??01|printing error: taocuitlatomin for teocuitlatomin: 55m]. >>> moneda de oro. 55m-14| >>> >>> cozticteocuitlatomin (cozticteocuitlatomin). moneda de oro. 71m1-152| >>> >>> cozticteocuitlaxaltetl (cozticteocuitlaxaltetl). grano de oro. >>> 55m-10| >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Nahuatl mailing list >>> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org >>> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Nahuatl mailing list >> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org >> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From tekuani at hotmail.es Tue Jul 17 19:04:27 2012 From: tekuani at hotmail.es (Jacinto Acatecatl) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 14:04:27 -0500 Subject: Nahuatl Digest, Vol 266, Issue 1 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: COINCIDO CON EL ULTIMO CONCEPTO, COZTIK TOMIN TLAKOHUALONI AMARILLO MONEDA DE COMPRA cozticteocuitlacohualoni (cozticteocuitlacohualoni). moneda de oro. 55m-14| _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Wed Jul 18 11:06:56 2012 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 07:06:56 -0400 Subject: Nahuatl in the U.S. and Canada Message-ID: Are there any universities in Canada or the U.S. that offer introductory Nahuatl these days? Thank you. Michael _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From idiez at me.com Wed Jul 18 18:13:00 2012 From: idiez at me.com (IDIEZ) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 11:13:00 -0700 Subject: Nahuatl in the U.S. and Canada In-Reply-To: <20120718070656.z3qr42tpk0okgogo@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: Piyali notequixpoyohuan, I will reply later with a list of the universities we provide services to. But it would be a good idea to compile a master list of all institutions everywhere that offer courses. John On Jul 18, 2012, at 4:06 AM, Michael McCafferty wrote: > Are there any universities in Canada or the U.S. that offer introductory Nahuatl these days? > > Thank you. > > Michael > > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Thu Jul 19 19:39:13 2012 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 15:39:13 -0400 Subject: Carochi Message-ID: Can anyone tell if Carochi's glottal stop markers are used in (many) other primary sources? Thank you! Michael _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From hawatari21centuries at gmail.com Thu Jul 19 23:25:02 2012 From: hawatari21centuries at gmail.com (SASAKI Mitsuya) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 08:25:02 +0900 Subject: Carochi In-Reply-To: <20120719153913.c05eh1zc8owsos8o@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: Michael, I'm not sure if you already know this, but the text in the Buncroft Dialogues systematically uses grave accents to mark glottal stops. It's slightly different from Carochi's usage in that the BC consistently uses a grave accent no matter where it occurs, while Carochi marks a sentence-final saltillo by a circumflex. Probably it was a post-Carochi Jesuit tradition to mark saltillos in this way, but unfortunately I don't know any other sources which adopt this system. --- Mitsuya Sasaki Department of Linguistics, The University of Tokyo (2012/07/20 4:39), Michael McCafferty wrote: > Can anyone tell if Carochi's glottal stop markers are used in (many) > other primary sources? > > > Thank you! > > Michael > > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From schwallr at potsdam.edu Fri Jul 20 05:28:46 2012 From: schwallr at potsdam.edu (John F. Schwaller) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 01:28:46 -0400 Subject: Carochi Message-ID: Dear all, Fran Karttunen based her Dictionary on sources written using the Carochi system, and others where vowel length and the glottal stop were marked. The three plays held in the Bancroft Library and published by Burkhart and Sell also use the system but on a slightly more haphazard basis. -- John F. Schwaller President, SUNY Potsdam 44 Pierrepont Ave. Potsdam, NY 13676 schwallr at potsdam.edu _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Fri Jul 20 11:00:08 2012 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 07:00:08 -0400 Subject: Carochi In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Quoting "John F. Schwaller" : > > Dear all, > > Fran Karttunen based her Dictionary on sources written using the Carochi > system, and others where vowel length and the glottal stop were marked. Yes, indeed! > > The three plays held in the Bancroft Library and published by Burkhart and > Sell also use the system but on a slightly more haphazard basis. I see. But is the *use* of Carochi's glottal stop indications widespread? Or is it limited to Carochi himself and the Bancroft material? Ca c'est la question. Thanks, Fritz! Michael One additional question for all that someone asked me: "Carochi's text, do you have a source where I can buy it and also the Porrua 3 volumes of Torquemada's Monarquia India? Amazon is not helpful and keeps sending me to re-print houses by Porrua's edition in both cases is what I prefer." Tlaxtlahui. Michael > > > -- > John F. Schwaller > President, > SUNY Potsdam > 44 Pierrepont Ave. > Potsdam, NY 13676 > schwallr at potsdam.edu > > > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From dcwright at prodigy.net.mx Fri Jul 20 21:18:45 2012 From: dcwright at prodigy.net.mx (David Wright) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 16:18:45 -0500 Subject: Carochi In-Reply-To: <20120720070008.e49yipxu04gg44co@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: Muy estimado Michael: The phoneme caleed "saltillo" was usually a glottal stop but had an allophone, apparently a voiceless glottal fricative like English /h/, used in dialects in the Puebla-Tlaxcala region, according to friar Antonio del Rinc?n (1595: 64r). As a precedent, at least one of the Florentine Codex scribes, working around 1577, occasionally used the circumflex sign over the preceding vowel to represent the saltillo, around 1577 (Sahag?n 1979; see also the transcriptions in Sahag?n 1974-1982). Other than grammars and dictionaries, the Bancroft Library manuscripts produced by Horacio Carochi's "circle" (as Fritz Schwaller [1994] has called it), as far as I can see, are the only extant manuscripts using Carochi's orthography, although they use the "breve" diacritic, like a little 'u', instead of an acute accent for short vowels. It is probable that the acute accent replaced the breve in Carochi's published grammar (1645) due to typographical constraints in printer Juan Ruiz's shop, according to Lockhart (2001a: xiii). The manuscripts from the circle of Carochi at the Bancroft include both huehuetlatolli speeches (The Art of Nahuatl speech 1987) and translations of Spanish theater (Nahuatl theater 2008). See Lockhart 2001b: 142; Schwaller 1984, 1987, 2001, 2008; Sell 2007. Here's a brief rundown on saltillo representation in descriptive sources over the years. Franciscan friar Alonso de Molina (1555, 1571a, 1571b, etc.) sometimes represents the saltillo with the letter 'h' but usually omits it. Antonio del Rinc?n, a native speaker and Jesuit, was the first to point out the necessity of representing the saltillo (and vowel length), in his Arte mexicana (1595). In the manuscript he appears to have used the breve diacritic for the saltillo and three diacritics (grave, acute and circumflex) for vowel length, as he explains on folios 63r-64v of the printed book. Unfortunately the printer was unable to reproduce the diacritics, and the manuscript is lost. Only once does he represent a breve, standing alone, by mutilating a piece of type, perhaps an 'o' . The letter 'h' is used frequentlyfor the saltillo in this grammar. Pedro de Arenas (1611), at first glance, seems to have tried to apply Rincon's orthography in his Vocabulario manual, but his use of diacritics is far from consistent. The Florentine Jesuit priest Horacio Carochi learned from Rinc?n (using his grammar extensively as a source) and represents the saltillo and vowel length, more or less consistently, in his Arte (1645), although he doesn't follow Rincon's conventions. Instead Carochi represents the saltillo with a grave accent over the preceding vowel and a circumflex when the saltillo is at the end of a sentence (See Le?n-Portilla 1983; Lockhart 2001a; Schwaller 1994; Smith 2000). In colonial descriptive sources, Jesuit Francisco Javier Clavijero's grammar (1976), written around 1760-1787, uses Carochi's system, although somewhat inconsistently. Joseph Augustin Aldama y Guevara, in his Arte de la lengua mexicana (1998 [1754]), uses Carochi's diacritics to represent the saltillo and long vowels. Jesuit Ignacio de Paredes published a compendium of Carochi's grammar in 1759, although without the diacritics (see Hern?ndez 1998; Lockhart 2001b: x, 111-125; Schwaller 1994: 392). In the 19th and much of the 20th centuries, saltillos were usually ignored, although occasionally an 'h' appears in Sim?on's dictionary (1999 [1885]). Garibay (1999 [1940]) and Sullivan (1983 [1976]) inconsistently use 'h' or an apostrophe. J. Richard Andrews (1975a, 1975b, 2003a, 2003b) recovers Carochi's understanding of Nahuatl phonology, although he uses 'h' instead of diacritics for the saltillo, which is a good thing, since the saltillo is a consonant, not a feature of vowels. Andrew's orthography is used by Frances Karttunen (1983a, 1992), John Bierhorst (1985, 2009), R. Joe Campbell & FrancesKarttunen (1989a, 1989b) and others, myself included (2007). Michel Launey uses Carochi's system of diacritics in his grammar (1992, 1995, 2011 [1979]) and his dissertation (1986), although he uses the circumflex at the ends of words in general, not just the ends of sentences. James Lockhart (2001) uses 'h' for the saltillo when he chooses to write it. Paul P. de Wolf (2003) consistently uses 'h' for the saltillo (and double vowels, e. g. "aa", to express long duration). Saludos, David P. S. The original 1645 edition of Carochi's Arte is now available on two web sites, as is the 1892 edition (see below). The most useful edition for study is Lockhart's annotated and indexed version with an English translation (2001). As for Torquemada's work, the UNAM edition (1975-1983) is more useful than the Editorial Porr?a edition, particularly for the tables in volume 7 that trace his sources. There is a digital edition available on-line (Torquemada 2010). REFERENCIAS (note that many are available on-line) Aldama y Guevara, Joseph August?n, ?Arte de la lengua mexicana?, facs?mil de la ed. de 1754, en Obras cl?sicas sobre la lengua n?huatl, ed. digital, Ascensi?n Hern?ndez de Le?n-Portilla, compiladora, Madrid, Fundaci?n Hist?rica Tavera/Mapfre Mutualidad/Digibis, 1998. Andrews, J. Richard, Introduction to Classical Nahuatl, Austin/Londres, University of Texas Press, 1975. Andrews, J. Richard, Introduction to Classical Nahuatl, revised edition, Norman, University of Oklahoma Press, 2003. Andrews, J. Richard, Introduction to Classical Nahuatl, workbook, Austin/Londres, University of Texas Press, 1975. Andrews, J. Richard, Workbook for introduction to Classical Nahuatl, revised edition, Norman, University of Oklahoma Press, 2003. Arenas, Pedro de, Vocabulario manual de las lenguas castellana y mexicana, en que se contienen las palabras, preguntas,y respuestas mas comunes y ordinarias que se suelen ofrecer en el trato y comunicaci?n entre espa?oles e indios, M?xico, Henrico Mart?nez, 1611. Arenas, Pedro de, ?Vocabulario manual de las lenguas castellana y mexicana, en que se contienen las palabras, preguntas,y respuestas mas comunes y ordinarias que se suelen ofrecer en el trato y comunicaci?n entre espa?oles e indios?, facs?mil digital de la ed. de 1611, en Biblioteca Digital Mundial (http://www.wdl.org/es/item/2836; actualizaci?n: 7 may. 2009; acceso: 29 sep. 2009). Arenas, Pedro de, ?Vocabulario manual de las lenguas castellana y mexicana, en que se contienen las palabras, preguntas,y respuestas mas comunes y ordinarias que se suelen ofrecer en el trato, comunicaci?n entre espa?oles e indios?, facs?mil digital de la ed. de 1683, en Memoria chilena, portal de la cultura de Chile, Santiago, Direcci?n de Bibliotecas, Archivos y Museos, sin fecha (http://www.memoriachilena.cl/temas/documento_detalle.asp?id=MC0042356; acceso: 7 nov. 2009). Arenas, Pedro de, ?Vocabulario manual de las lenguas castellana y mexicana, en que se contienen las palabras, preguntas,y respuestas mas comunes y ordinarias que se suelen ofrecer en el trato y comunicaci?n entre espa?oles e indios?, facs?mil de la ed. de 1611, en Obras cl?sicas sobre la lengua n?huatl, ed. digital, Ascensi?n Hern?ndez de Le?n-Portilla, compiladora, Madrid, Fundaci?n Hist?rica Tavera/Mapfre Mutualidad/Digibis, 1998. Arenas, Pedro de, Vocabulario manual de las lenguas castellana y mexicana, facs?mil de la ed. de 1611, estudio de Ascensi?n Hern?ndez de Le?n-Portilla, M?xico, Instituto de Investigaciones Filol?gicas/Instituto de Investigaciones Hist?ricas, Universidad Nacional Aut?noma de M?xico, 1982. The art of Nahuatl speech: the Bancroft dialogues, Frances Karttunen & James Lockhart, editores, Los ?ngeles, UCLA Latin American Center Publications, 1987. Bierhorst, John, A Nahuatl-English dictionary and concordance to the Cantares mexicanos, with an analytic transcription and grammatical notes, Stanford, Stanford University Press, 1985. Bierhorst, John, ?A Nahuatl-English dictionary and concordance to the Cantares mexicanos, with an analytic transcription and grammatical notes?, facs?mil de la ed. de 1985, en Ballads of the lords of New Spain, ed. digital, John Bierhorst, editor y traductor, Austin, University of Texas Press, 2009 (http://utdi.org/book/pdf/dictionary.pdf; acceso: 7 ene. 2010). Campbell, R. Joe; Karttunen, Frances, Foundation course in Nahuatl grammar, volume 1: Text and exercises, ed. xerogr?fica, Missoula, The University of Montana, 1989a. Campbell, R. Joe; Karttunen, Frances, Foundation course in Nahuatl grammar, volume 2: Vocabulary and key, ed. xerogr?fica, Missoula, The University of Montana, 1989b. Carochi, Horacio, Arte de la lengua mexicana con la declaraci?n de los adverbios della, M?xico, Juan Ruiz, 1645. Carochi, Horacio, Arte de la lengua mexicana con la declaraci?n de los adverbios della, facs?mil de la ed. de 1645, Miguel Le?n-Portilla, editor, M?xico, Instituto de Investigaciones Filol?gicas/Instituto de Investigaciones Hist?ricas, Universidad Nacional Aut?noma de M?xico, 1983. Carochi, Horacio, ?Arte de la lengua mexicana con la declaraci?n de los adverbios della?, facs?mil digital de la ed. de 1645, en Google books (http://books.google.com/books?id=lIACAAAAQAAJ; acceso: 27 sep. 2011). Carochi, Horacio, ?Arte de la lengua mexicana con la declaraci?n de los adverbios della?, facs?mil digital de la ed. de 1645, en Internet Archive (http://www.archive.org/details/artedelalenguam00caro; actualizaci?n: 31 ago. 2011; acceso: 27 sep. 2011). Carochi, Horacio, ?Arte de la lengua mexicana con la declaraci?n de los adverbios della?, facs?mil de la ed. de 1645, en Obras cl?sicas sobre la lengua n?huatl, ed. digital, Ascensi?n Hern?ndez de Le?n-Portilla, compiladora, Madrid, Fundaci?n Hist?rica Tavera/Mapfre Mutualidad/Digibis, 1998. Carochi, Horacio, ?Arte de la lengua mexicana con la declaraci?n de los adverbios della?, facs?mil digital de la ed. de 1892, en Internet Archive (http://www.archive.org/details/artedelalenguame00carouoft; actualizaci?n: 6 feb. 2009; acceso: 20 sep. 2011). Carochi, Horacio, ?Arte de la lengua mexicana con la declaraci?n de los adverbios della?, en Colecci?n de gram?ticas de la lengua mexicana, vol. 1, Francisco del Paso y Troncoso y Luis Gonz?lez Obreg?n, editores, M?xico, Museo Nacional de M?xico, 1904, pp. 395-536 (facs?mil en Anales del Museo Nacional de M?xico, colecci?n completa, 1877-1977, ed. digital, M?xico/Madrid, Instituto Nacional de Antropolog?a e Historia/Fundaci?n Mapfre Tavera/Digibis, 2002). Carochi, Horacio, Grammar of the Mexican language with an explanation of its adverbs (1645), James Lockhart, traductor y editor, Stanford/Los ?ngeles, Stanford University Press/UCLA Latin American Center Publications, 2001. Clavijero, Francisco Javier, Reglas de la lengua mexicana con un vocabulario, Arthur J. O. Anderson, editor, M?xico, Instituto de Investigaciones Hist?ricas, Universidad Nacional Aut?noma de M?xico, 1974. 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Launey, Michel, Cat?gories et op?rations dans la grammaire nahuatl, 2 vols., tesis doctoral, Par?s, Universit? de Paris IV, 1986 (facs?mil digital en el sitio web Nahuatl learning environment: http://www.balsas-nahuatl.org/electronic-docs; acceso: 14 mar. 2009). Launey, Michel, Cat?gories et op?rations dans la grammaire nahuatl, 2 vols., tesis doctoral, Par?s, Universit? de Paris IV, 1986 (facs?mil digital en Centre National de la Recherche Scientifique: http://www.vjf.cnrs.fr/celia/FichExt/Etudes/Launey/tm.htm; acceso: 14 mar. 2009). Launey, Michel, Introducci?n a la lengua y a la literatura n?huatl, Cristina Kraft, traductora, M?xico, Instituto de Investigaciones Antropol?gicas, Universidad Nacional Aut?noma de M?xico, 1992 (http://www.balsas-nahuatl.org/electronic-docs; acceso: 27 feb. 2009). Launey, Michel, Introduction ? la langue et ? la litt?rature azt?ques, tome 1 : grammaire, reimpresi?n de la ed. de 1979, Par?s, L?Harmattan, 1995. Launey, Michel, An introduction to Classical Nahuatl, Christopher Mackay, traductor, Nueva York, Cambridge University Press, 2011. Le?n-Portilla, Miguel, ?Estudio introductorio?, en Horacio Carochi, Arte de la lengua mexicana con la declaraci?n de los adverbios della, facs?mil de la ed. de 1645, Miguel Le?n-Portilla, editor, M?xico, Instituto de Investigaciones Filol?gicas/Instituto de Investigaciones Hist?ricas, Universidad Nacional Aut?noma de M?xico, 1983, pp. vii-lxix. Lockhart, James, ?Editor?s preface?, en Horacio Carochi, Grammar of the Mexican language with an explanation of its adverbs (1645), James Lockhart, traductor y editor, Stanford/Los ?ngeles, Stanford University Press/UCLA Latin American Center Publications, 2001, pp. vii-xxii. Lockhart, James, Nahuatl as written, lessons in older written nahuatl, with copious examples and texts, Stanford/Los ?ngeles, Stanford University Press/UCLA Latin American Center Publications, 2001. Molina, Alonso de, Aqu? comien?a un vocabulario en la lengua castellana y mexicana, M?xico, Casa de Juan Pablos, 1555. Molina, Alonso de, ?Aqu? comien?a un vocabulario en la lengua castellana y mexicana?, facs?mil de la ed. de 1555, en Obras cl?sicas sobre la lengua n?huatl, ed. digital, Ascensi?n Hern?ndez de Le?n-Portilla, compiladora, Madrid, Fundaci?n Hist?rica Tavera/Mapfre Mutualidad/Digibis, 1998. Molina, Alonso de, ?Aqu? comienca [sic] un vocabulario en la lengua castellana y mexicana?, facs?mil digital de la ed. de 1555, en Biblioteca Virtual Miguel de Cervantes (Fundaci?n Biblioteca Virtual Miguel de Cervantes) (http://www.cervantesvirtual.com/FichaObra.html?Ref=22559; actualizaci?n: 2006; acceso: 29 sep. 2009). Molina, Alonso de, ?Arte de la lengua mexicana y castellana?, facs?mil de la ed. de 1571, en Obras cl?sicas sobre la lengua n?huatl, ed. digital, Ascensi?n Hern?ndez de Le?n-Portilla, compiladora, Madrid, Fundaci?n Hist?rica Tavera/Mapfre Mutualidad/Digibis, 1998. 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Sahag?n, Bernardino de, C?dice florentino, facs?mil del ms., 3 vols., M?xico, Secretar?a de Gobernaci?n, 1979. Sahag?n, Bernardino de, Florentine codex, general history of the things of New Spain, 1a. ed./2a. ed./reimpresi?n, 13 partes en 12 vols., Arthur J. O. Anderson y Charles E. Dibble, editores y traductores, Santa Fe/Salt Lake City, The School of American Research/The University of Utah, 1974-1982. Schwaller, John Frederick, ?Forword?, en Nahuatl theater, volume 3, Spanish Golden Age drama in Mexican translation, Barry D. Sell, Louise M. Burkhart y Elizabet R. Wright, editores, Norman, University of Oklahoma Press, 2008, pp. xi-xiii. Schwaller, John Frederick, Gu?as de manuscritos en n?huatl [Guides to Nahuatl manuscripts], The Newberry Library (Chicago), The Latin American Library (Tulane University), The Bancroft Library (Berkeley), M?xico, Instituto de Investigaciones Hist?ricas, Universidad Nacional Aut?noma de M?xico, 1987. Schwaller, John Frederick, A guide to Nahuatl language manuscripts held in United States repositories, Berkeley, Academy of American Franciscan History, 2001. Schwaller, John Frederick, ?Nahuatl studies and the ?circle? of Horacio Carochi?, en Estudios de Cultura Nahuatl (Instituto de Investigaciones Hist?ricas, Universidad Nacional Aut?noma de M?xico), vol. 24, 1994, pp. 387-398 (http://www.historicas.unam.mx/publicaciones/revistas/nahuatl/pdf/ecn24/441. pdf; acceso: 20 jul. 2012). Sell, Barry D., ?Nahuatl plays?, en Sources and methods for the study of postconquest Mesoamerican ethnohistory, edici?n digital provisional, James Lockhart, Lisa Sousa y Stephanie Wood, editores, Eugene, Wired Humanities Project, University of Oregon, 2007 (http://whp.uoregon.edu/Lockhart/index.html; acceso: 12 dic. 2011). Sim?on, R?mi, Diccionario de la lengua n?huatl o mexicana, redactado seg?n los documentos impresos y manuscritos m?s aut?nticos y precedido de una introducci?n, 15a. ed., Josefina Oliva de Coll, traductora, M?xico, Siglo Veintiuno Editores, 1999. Smith Stark, Thomas C., ?Rinc?n y Carochi: la tradici?n jesu?tica de descripci?n del n?huatl?, en Las gram?ticas misioneras de tradici?n hisp?nica (siglos XVI-XVII), Otto Zwartjes, editor, Amsterdam/Atlanta, Editions Rodopi, 2000, pp. 29-72. Sullivan, Thelma D., Compendio de la gram?tica n?huatl, 1a. reimpresi?n de la 1a. ed., M?xico, Instituto de Investigaciones Hist?ricas, Universidad Nacional Aut?noma de M?xico, 1983. Sullivan, Thelma D., Compendio de la gram?tica n?huatl, 2a. reimpresi?n de la 2a. ed., M?xico, Instituto de Investigaciones Hist?ricas, Universidad Nacional Aut?noma de M?xico, 1998. Torquemada, Juan de, Monarqu?a indiana, de los veinte y un libros rituales y monarqu?a indiana, con el origen y guerras de los indios occidentales, de sus poblazones, descubrimiento, conquista, conversi?n y otras cosas maravillosas de la mesma tierra, 7 vols., Miguel Le?n-Portilla, coordinador, M?xico, Instituto de Investigaciones Hist?ricas, Universidad Nacional Aut?noma de M?xico, 1975-1983. Torquemada, Juan de, Monarqu?a indiana, de los veinte y un libros rituales y monarqu?a indiana, con el origen y guerras de los indios occidentales, de sus poblazones, descubrimiento, conquista, conversi?n y otras cosas maravillosas de la mesma tierra, ed. digital, Miguel Le?n-Portilla, coordinador, M?xico, Instituto de Investigaciones Hist?ricas, Universidad Nacional Aut?noma de M?xico, 2010 (http://www.iih.unam.mx/publicaciones/publicadigital/monarquia/index.html#; acceso: 4 jun. 2011). Wolf, Paul P. de, Diccionario espa?ol-n?huatl, M?xico/La Paz, Instituto de Investigaciones Hist?ricas, Universidad Nacional Aut?noma de M?xico/Fideicomiso Teixidor/Universidad Aut?noma de Baja California Sur, 2003. Wright Carr, David Charles, Lectura del n?huatl, fundamentos para la traducci?n de los textos en n?huatl del periodo Novohispano Temprano, M?xico, Instituto Nacional de Lenguas Ind?genas, 2007. ******************************************************************* -----Mensaje original----- De: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org [mailto:nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org] En nombre de Michael McCafferty Enviado el: viernes, 20 de julio de 2012 06:00 Para: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org Asunto: Re: [Nahuat-l] Carochi Quoting "John F. Schwaller" : > > Dear all, > > Fran Karttunen based her Dictionary on sources written using the Carochi > system, and others where vowel length and the glottal stop were marked. Yes, indeed! > > The three plays held in the Bancroft Library and published by Burkhart and > Sell also use the system but on a slightly more haphazard basis. I see. But is the *use* of Carochi's glottal stop indications widespread? Or is it limited to Carochi himself and the Bancroft material? Ca c'est la question. Thanks, Fritz! Michael One additional question for all that someone asked me: "Carochi's text, do you have a source where I can buy it and also the Porrua 3 volumes of Torquemada's Monarquia India? Amazon is not helpful and keeps sending me to re-print houses by Porrua's edition in both cases is what I prefer." Tlaxtlahui. Michael _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From gwhitta4 at googlemail.com Fri Jul 20 22:18:25 2012 From: gwhitta4 at googlemail.com (Gordon Whittaker) Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 00:18:25 +0200 Subject: Carochi and Ruiz de Alarc=?gb2312?Q?=A8=AEn?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Michael, One of the scribes of the Ruiz de Alarc?n manuscript used the system championed by Rinc?n and especially by Carochi, in which glottal stops are indicated. You will find all the details in the Coe and Whittaker edition, in which I went to pains to reconstruct the orthographical and language habits of the individual scribes. Incidentally, for the record, the edition originally submitted around the same time by Andrews and Hassig failed to include any such observations, since they had not at the time seen, let alone worked from, the original R de A manuscript. After being alerted to our study of the original, which we published shortly afterwards (a couple of years before their edition appeared), they added the information that we had already covered -- but maintained a curious silence on this fact. Indeed, their published edition fails to make any reference at all to our volume, even in their bibliography, although they were well acquainted with our work. Somewhat dismaying, because I would have expected more from a distinguished colleague like Andrews. Best wishes, Gordon > > Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 15:39:13 -0400 > From: Michael McCafferty > To: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > Subject: [Nahuat-l] Carochi > > Can anyone tell if Carochi's glottal stop markers are used in (many) > other primary sources? > > Thank you! > > Michael _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From Ian.Mursell at btinternet.com Thu Jul 26 20:50:13 2012 From: Ian.Mursell at btinternet.com (Ian Mursell) Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2012 21:50:13 +0100 Subject: any teachers/speakers of N=?iso-8859-1?Q?=E1huatl_?=in the United Kingdom? Message-ID: Piyali listeros, Greetings from sunny Olympic London! Occasionally we receive enquiries here in the UK from individuals looking for teachers and or speakers of N?huatl in this country, and I have been meaning for some time to ask members of this list if they have any leads that we could follow up, or indeed if there are list members who are themselves N?huatl experts. Any information/guidance would be warmly welcomed. Thanks in anticipation and muchos saludos, Ian Ian Mursell Mexicolore, London www.aztecs.org _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From schwallr at potsdam.edu Tue Jul 31 12:45:44 2012 From: schwallr at potsdam.edu (John F. Schwaller) Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2012 08:45:44 -0400 Subject: Exhibit at Dallas Message-ID: The Dallas Museum of Art has a show "The Legacy of the Plume Serpent in Ancient Mexico" July 29-Nov. 25. For details see: http://artdaily.com/index.asp?int_sec=2&int_new=56831#.UBfSwLRSTng -- John F. Schwaller President SUNY Potsdam 44 Pierrepont Ave. Potsdam, NY 13676 schwallr at potsdam.edu tel: 315-265-2100 fax 315-265-2496 _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl