Molina's Lost Soul.....

Campbell, R. Joe campbel at indiana.edu
Sat Dec 7 04:24:37 UTC 2013


Mr. Tezozomoctzin ihuan occequi nocnihuan,

   This message gives me hope that Nahuat-l can and may function as a 
forum for discussing problems about Nahuatl, particularly word 
formation ( |8-) ).

   First, the word "teyoiatl".  My guess is that this an addition by 
Simeon, and as you hint, not in Molina.  Although Simeon based his 
dictionary mainly on Molina, he *did* add words, and my suspicion is 
that he formed "teyoliatl" to "teyolia" on the analogy of "ahuiani-tl" 
(words formed with "-ni" function comfortably as nouns, although they 
dance on the borderline between verbs and nouns).

   I have been assuming that "teyolia" was an instrumental noun, 
parallel to "ipatlania" (its fin, its means of 'flying').  Therefore, 
the initial "te-" of "teyolia" is a possessive prefix rather than an 
object, which is consistent with the intransitive verb stem "yoli".  
"te-yoli-ya" = someone's means of living??

   The following list contains all the instrumental -ya occurrences 
that I have identified so far.  As you can see, it is still rough, 
still in need of spelling refinement.

Saludos,

Joe


*ya1 ***

  ahciya , amotetech- (amotetechacia).  your [pl.] means of approaching
    people. <poss-poss-tech1-ahci-ya1 +del.y>. b.12 f.1 p.15|

  ahcoquizaya , i- (jacoquj‡aia).  his exaltation. <poss-ahco-qui:za-
    ya1>. b.6 f.2 p.26|

  ahcoquizaya , n[o]- (nacoquj‡aia).  my exaltation. <poss-ahco-qui:za-
    ya1>. b.6 f.1 p.9|

  anaya , ine- (ineanaia).  her waist band. <poss-p53-a:na1-ya1>. b.2
    f.8 p.138|

  atlia , t[o]- (tatlia).  mustache; our mustache. <poss-a:tl1-i:1-ya1>.
    b.10 f.8 p.137b|

  atlia =to (t[o]atlia).  bigotes; bigotes dela barba; bozo de barua.
    <poss-a:tl1-i:1-ya1>. 55m-2|

  caquia , motla- (motlacaquja).  your hearing organ. <poss-p51-caqui-
    ya1>. b.6 f.10 p.122|

  caquia =pactica in notla (pactica in notlacaquia).  iuizio bueno tener
    y sano. <pa:qui-prt1-ti1-ca:1a in poss-p51-caqui-ya1 aux11a
    +phrase>. 71m1-132|

  caquia =pactica in notla (pactica in^notlacaquia).  sano de juyzio;
    tener sano el juizio el que esta enfermo. <pa:qui-prt1-ti1-ca:1a in
    poss-p51-caqui-ya1 aux11a +phrase>. 71m1-191|

  caquiya , ahtotla- (atotlacaquja).  . <ah1-poss-p51-caqui-ya1 +del.y>.
    b.6 f.11 p.137|

  celiloya , tla- (tlaceliloia).  place for receiving. <p51-ceya-delya-
    ben-lo:2-ya1>. b.10 f.6 p.107a|

  cemilhuitiaya , i- (ycemjlhujtiaia).  his daily sustenance. <poss-cem-
    ilhuitl-v07-ya1>. b.4 f.4 p.37|

  cemilhuitiaya , i- (icemilhujtiaia).  his daily sustenance. <poss-cem-
    ilhuitl-v07-ya1>. b.4 f.12 p.125|

  cempapaquiliztiaya in dios =ite (itecempapaquiliztiaya in dios).  la
    bienauenturanza y gloria sempiterna que da nuestro se¤or dios. <poss-
    p52-cem-dupl-pa:qui-liz-v04-caus08-ya1 in ++dios +spanish>. 71m2-7|

  cencuiltonoaya in dios =ite (itecencuiltonoaya in dios).  la
    bienauenturanza y gloria sempiterna que da nuestro se¤or dios
    (idem). <poss-p52-cem-cuilto:noa:-ya1 in ++dios +spanish>. 71m2-7|

  centlahmachtiaya in dios =ite (itecentlahmachtiaya in dios).  la
    bienauenturanza y gloria sempiterna que da nuestro se¤or dios
    (idem). <poss-p52-cem-p51-ih2-mati-l2-v04-caus08-ya1 in ++dios +t>ch
    +spanish>. 71m2-7|

  cetiliaya =note (notecetiliaya).  el medio que tengo para hazer de dos
    cosas vna, juntando las ambas ados. <poss-p52-cem-v01a-caus04-ya1>.
    71m2-13|

  chichihuaya , intla- (intlachichioaia).  their tools for ornamenting.
    <poss-p51-dupl-chi:hua-ya1>. b.9 f.7 p.91|

  ciaya =to (tociaya).  nuestra voluntad, o querer. <poss-ceya-ya1 +e>i
    +del.y>. 71m2-25|

  ciyaya =no (nociaya).  mi voluntad o querer. <poss-ceya-ya1 +del.y>.
    71m2-12|

  cochiya , to- (tocochia).  our eyelashes. <poss-cochi-ya1 +del.y>.
    b.10 f.6 p.102a|

  cochiya =to (tocochia).  las pesta¤as; pesta¤a. <poss-cochi-ya1
    +del.y>. 71m2-4|

  cochiyatl (cochiatl).  las pesta¤as; pesta¤a. <cochi-ya1-tl +del.y>.
    71m2-4|

  cocochiya =to (tococochia).  las pesta¤as; pesta¤a. <poss-dupl-cochi-
    ya1 +del.y>. 71m2-25|

  cohuaya , itla- (itlacoaia).  his means of buying. <poss-p51-co:hua-
    ya1 +del.w>. b.3 f.1 p.9|

  coyonya =to (busca ijada (found yjada,parte del cuerpo) |
tocoyonya |
|
    busca ijada (found yjada,parte del cuerpo)).  hijada. <poss-coyo:ni--
    ya1 +ret.n>. 71m1-131|

  cuauhquechtlahuilanaya =cuacuahuehqueh in (cuacuahuehqueh
    incuauhquechtlahuilanaya).  yugo para u¤ir; yugo para v¤ir; yugo
    para v¤ir bueyes. <cua:itl-cuahuitl-e:1-prt4-plur14 poss-cuahuitl-
    quechtli-p51-huila:na-ya1 +phrase.poss +phrase +ev.verb.21>. 55m-
    12|

  cuauhtlalpiaya , i- (iquauhtlalpiaya).  his eagle head band. <poss-
    cua:uhtli-p51-ilpi-caus08=0-ya1>. b.8 f.5 p.87|

  cuaya , intla- (jntlaquaia).  their dishes. <poss-p51-cua:-ya1>. b.1
    f.3 p.49|

  cuaya , ite- (itequaia).  its mouth, its means of devouring people;
    its organ for eating people. <poss-p52-cua:-ya1 +min>. b.11 f.1
    p.6|

  cuaya , totla- (totlaquaia).  our place for eating. <poss-p51-cua:-
    lo:2-ya1>. b.10 f.6 p.107a|

  elimiquia cuacuahueh =i (ielimiquia cuacuahueh).  arado. <poss-
    e:limiqui-ya1 cua:itl-cuahuitl-e:1-prt4 +phrase.poss +phrase>. 55m-
    1|

  elimiquia =cuacuahueh i (cuacuahueh ielimiquia).  arado; reja de
    arado. <cua:itl-cuahuitl-e:1-prt4 poss-e:limiqui-ya1 +phrase.poss
    +phrase>. 71m1-022|

  huelmatia , totla- (totlauelmatia).  our place of tasting. <poss-p51-
    huel1-mati-ya1>. b.10 f.6 p.107b|

  huelmatia =totla (totlahuelmatia).  el sentido del gusto. <poss-p51-
    huel1-mati-ya1>. 71m2-26|

  huitequia , itla- (itlaujtequja).  its beak. <poss-p51-hui:tequi-ya1>.
    b.2 f.5 p.94|

  [i]czaya , itla- (jtlac‡aia).  his walking staff. <poss-p51-icza-ya1>.
    b.1 f.2 p.43|

  [i]czaya , itla- (ytlac‡aia).  his traveling staff. <poss-p51-icza-
    ya1>. b.1 f.2 p.44|

  [i]czaya , totla- (totlac‡aia).  our pressing place. <poss-p51-icza-
    ya1>. b.10 f.7 p.122b|

  iczaya =totla (totla[i]czaya).  la planta del pie; pata o planta del
    pie; planta del pie. <poss-p51-icza-ya1>. 71m2-26|

  iczayatl =tla (tla[i]czayatl) [scribal error: ??note unusual
    absolutive on the -ya suffix: 55m].  pata o planta del pie. <p51-
    icza-ya1-tl>. 55m-15|

  iczayatl =tla (tla[i]czayatl).  pata o planta del pie. <p51-icza-ya1-
    tl>. 71m1-162|

  iczayatl =tla (tla[i]czayatl) [scribal error: ??note absolutive:
    71m2].  pata o planta del pie. <p51-icza-ya1-tl>. 71m2-20|

  ihcuiloa =notlalnamiquiya niqu (notlalnamiquiya niquihcuiloa).
    escreuir por minuta. <poss-p51-illi-na:miqui-ya1 p11-p33-ihcuilli-
    v03a-caus06>. 55m-8|

  [i]hnecuia , totla- (totla>necuia).  our sense of smell. <poss-p51-
    ihnecui-ya1>. b.10 f.6 p.104a|

  ihnecuiya =totla (totla[i]hnecuiya).  el sentido del oler. <poss-p51-
    ihnecui-ya1>. 71m2-26|

  ilnamiquia =totla (totla[i]lnamiquia).  memoria. <poss-p51-illi-
    na:miqui-ya1>. 55m-13|

  ilnamiquiya niquihcuiloa =notla (notlalnamiquiya niquihcuiloa).
    escreuir por minuta. <poss-p51-illi-na:miqui-ya1 p11-p33-ihcuilli-
    v03a-caus06>. 71m1-102|

  [i]tquia , intla- (jntlatquja).  . <poss-p51-itqui-ya1>. b.4 f.6
    p.60|

  ixtlahuaya =notla (notla[i]xtlahuaya).  paga, lo que doy para pagar lo
    que deuo. <poss-p51-ixtla:hui-v09-ya1>. 71m1-162|

  mactia , i- (imactia).  . <poss-maca-l2-v04-ya1>. b.1 f.2 p.33|

  mactia , ine- (inemactia).  ; it became his gift. <poss-p53-maca-l2-
    v04-ya1>. b.4 f.6 p.54|

  mahpilhuiaya =tote (totemahpilhuiaya).  dedo con que mostramos algo;
    el dedo con que mostramos; o se¤alamos algo. <poss-p52-ma:itl-pilli-
    v05b-ya1>. 55m-4|

  mamaya , intla- (jntlamamaia).  . <poss-p51-ma:ma:-ya1>. b.4 f.6
    p.60|

  manahuiaya =none (nonemanahuiaya).  mi amparo, o defensa, mis armas, o
    mi mierda. <poss-p53-ma:nahuia:1-manahuia2-ya1>. 71m2-12|

  mapatlaya , ine- (inemapatlaia).  her defense. <poss-p53-ma:itl-patla1-
    ya1>. b.2 f.10 p.158|

  matcanemitiaya =notetla (notetlamatcanemitiaya).  la paz conque yo
    hago biuir en paz alos otros. <poss-p52-p51-mati-prt1-ca:6-nemi-
    caus02-ya1>. 71m2-13|

  matcanemitiaya in dios =itetla (itetlamatcanemitiaya in dios).  la paz
    de nuestro se¤or. <poss-p52-p51-mati-prt1-ca:6-nemi-caus02-ya1-in-
    ++dios +spanish +phrase.poss +phrase>. 71m2-7|

  matia , tone- (tonematia).  our sense of feeling. <poss-p53-mati-ya1>.
    b.10 f.8 p.135a|

  matia , tonehneh- (tone>ne>matia).  our senses. <poss-dupl-p53-mati-
    ya1>. b.10 f.8 p.135a|

  matocaya =totla (totlamatocaya).  el sentido del palpar. <poss-p51-
    ma:itl-toca2-ya1>. 71m2-26|

  maya , itla- (jtlamaia).  its mouth. <poss-p51-ma:1-ya1>. b.11 f.1
    p.6|

  maya , itlahtla- (jtla>tlamaia).  its jaws. <poss-dupl-p51-ma:1-ya1
    +fusion>. b.11 f.1 p.6|

  minaya =xicohtli ite (xicohtli iteminaya).  aguijon de aueja; aguijon
    de abeja. <xi:cohtli poss-p52-mi:tl-v14-caus09-ya1 +phrase.poss
    +phrase>. 55m-002|

  namiquia , inte- (intenamjquja).  their greeting [gift], their means
    of greeting. <poss-p52-na:miqui-ya1>. b.12 f.1 p.13|

  nelohuaya , itla- (jtlanelooaia).  its rower. <poss-p51-nelihui-caus06-
    ya1 +insert.w>. b.11 f.6 p.58|

  nenemia , i[n]- (inenemja).  their means of traveling. <poss-dupl-nemi-
    ya1>. b.1 f.2 p.41|

  nequia =notla (notlanequia).  mi voluntad, o mi querer. <poss-p51-
    nequi-ya1>. 71m2-13|

  nequia =totla (totlanequia).  nuestra voluntad, o querer. <poss-p51-
    nequi-ya1>. 71m2-26|

  ohtlatocaya , i- (ivtlatocaia).  his wherewithal for the journey.
    <poss-ohtli-p51-toca2-ya1 +fusion>. b.4 f.2 p.17|

  ohtlatocaya , i- (iotlatocaia).  his trail rations, his means of
    living on the road. <poss-ohtli-p51-toca2-ya1 +fusion>. b.4 f.12
    p.125|

  ohtlatocaya , im- (jmotlatocaia).  their means of traveling. <poss-
    ohtli-p51-toca2-ya1 +fusion>. b.1 f.2 p.41|

  papatlaya , ine- (ynepapatlaia).  his turn. <poss-p53-dupl-patla1-
    ya1>. b.2 f.3 p.80|

  papatlaya , inne- (jnnepapatlaia).  their turn. <poss-p53-dupl-patla1-
    ya1>. b.2 f.3 p.80|

  patlania , i- (ipatlania).  its fin. <poss-patla:ni-ya1>. b.9 f.6
    p.74|

  patlania , i- (jpatlanja).  its place of flight, its means of flying;
    its swimmer; its fin. <poss-patla:ni-ya1>. b.11 f.6 p.55|

  patlania , i- (ipatlanja).  its flying part. <poss-patla:ni-ya1>. b.11
    f.9 p.89|

  patlania , i- (jpatlanja).  its means of flying. <poss-patla:ni-ya1>.
    b.11 f.10 p.100|

  polihuia , i- (jpolivia).  his destruction. <poss-polihui-ya1>. b.6
    f.3 p.29|

  polihuia , no- (nopoliuja).  my destruction. <poss-polihui-ya1>. b.6
    f.1 p.9|

  polihuiya , i- (jpolivia).  his destruction. <poss-polihui-ya1
    +del.y>. b.6 f.2 p.26|

  quen ca in notlacaquia =ahmo (ahmo quen^ca in^notlacaquia).  iuizio
    bueno tener y sano; sano de juyzio. <ah1-mo: que:n1 ca:1a in poss-
    p51-caqui-ya1 +phrase>. 71m1-132|

  quen ca in notlacaquia =ahmo (ahmo quen^ca in notlacaquia).  tener
    sano y entero el juyzio. <ah1-mo: que:n1 ca:1a in poss-p51-caqui-ya1
    +phrase>. 71m2-1|

  telicza , tla- (tlatelic‡a).  it kicks something. <p51-tel?-icza-ya1>.
    b.10 f.7 p.127b|

  teliczaya , totla- (totlatelic‡aia).  our kicking places. <poss-p51-
    tel?-icza-ya1>. b.10 f.7 p.127a|

  temoya , i- (itemoia).  his way of coming down, his path of coming
    down. <poss-temo:-ya1>. b.2 f.14 p.240|

  tenamiquia , amo- (amotenamjquja).  your [pl.] greeting [gift], your
    [pl.] means of greeting. <poss-p52-na:miqui-ya1>. b.12 f.1 p.15|

  tlacaanaya , ite- (itetlacaanaia).  his way of hunting people; its
    organ for hunting people. <poss-p52-tla:catl-a:na1-ya1>. b.11 f.7
    p.69|

  tlacahuapahuaya , in- (jntlacaoapaoaia).  . <poss-tla:catl-huapa:hua-
    ya1>. b.4 f.6 p.60|

  tlacatocaya , i- (itlacatocaia).  . <poss-tla:catl-to:ca:itl-ya1>. b.4
    f.2 p.13|

  tlacazcaltiaya , in- (jntlacazcaltiaia).  . <poss-tla:catl-izcalli-v11-
    caus08-ya1>. b.4 f.6 p.60|

  tlachiyaya , ahto- (atotlachiaia).  . <ah1-poss-tlachiya-ya1 +del.y>.
    b.6 f.11 p.137|

  tlachiyaya , i- (ytlachiaia).  his device for seeing. <poss-tlachiya-
    ya1 +del.y +ret.y>. b.1 f.2 p.34|

  tlachiyayan , ahto- (atotlachiaia).  . <ah1-poss-tlachiya-ya1 +del.y
    +del.n>. b.6 f.12 p.143|

  tlaczaya , to- (totlac‡aia).  our place of pushing. <poss-p51-icza-
    ya1>. b.10 f.7 p.115a|

  tlaczaya , totla- (totlatlac‡aia).  our pressing places. <poss-dupl-
    p51-icza-ya1>. b.10 f.8 p.135a|

  tlahpaloaya , inte- (jntetlapaloaia).  their greetings; their
    greeting. <poss-p52-tlahpalli-v03a-caus06-ya1>. b.4 f.9 p.88|

  tlahuanaya , in- (intlaoanaia).  their drinking vessel. <poss-
    tla:hua:na-ya1>. b.4 f.11 p.118|

  tlahuelcuia , to- (totlauelcuja).  our anger. <poss-tlahue:lli-cui-
    ya1>. b.10 f.8 p.131b|

  tlahuelnamiquia =note= (tlahuelnamiquia =note=).  mi contencion o
    contradicion, con que contra digo y peleo contra otros. <tlahue:lli-
    na:miqui-ya1>. 71m2-25|

  tlahuilanaya =cuacuahuehqueh in (cuacuahuehqueh intlahuilanaya).  yugo
    para u¤ir; yugo para v¤ir; yugo para v¤ir bueyes. <cua:itl-cuahuitl-
    e:1-prt4-plur14 poss-p51-huila:na-ya1 +phrase.poss +phrase
    +ev.verb.21>. 55m-12|

  tlaliaya , tone- (tonetlaliaia).  our sitting place. <poss-p53-
    tla:lia:-ya1>. b.10 f.7 p.122b|

  tlatlalia , to- (Totlatlalia).  our stomach. <poss-p51-tla:lia:-ya1>.
    b.10 f.9 p.155|

  tlatlaliaya , to- (totlatlaliaia).  our stomach. <poss-p51-tla:lia:-
    ya1>. b.10 f.9 p.155|

  tlatlaliaya =to (totlatlaliaya).  el estomago. <poss-p51-tla:lia:-
    ya1>. 71m2-26|

  tlatoloaya =no= (tlatoloaya =no=).  mi tragadero o gaznate. <p51-
    to:loa:-ya1>. 71m2-24|

  tlatoloaya =to (totlatoloaya).  el gaznate, o tragadero. <poss-p51-
    to:loa:-ya1>. 71m2-26|

  tlatzihuia , i- (itlatzivia).  his aversion. <poss-tlatzihui-ya1>. b.6
    f.13 p.154|

  tzatzahtzia =to= (tzatzahtzia =to=).  la olla dela garganta, oel
    gritadero. <dupl-tzahtzi-ya1>. 71m2-26|

  tzopaya , i- (itzopaia).  her weaving stick. <poss-tzopi--ya1>. b.2
    f.8 p.138|

  yolia =te (teyolia).  alma o anima; anima de alguno; anima o alma; el
    alma; o anima. <poss-yo:lli-v13-ya1>. 55m-002|

  yolia =to (toyolia).  alma, o anima; anima o alma. <poss-yo:lli-v13-
    ya1>. 71m2-25|

  yolia icocoliz =to (toyolia icocoliz).  passion del anima; passion de
    anima. <poss-yo:lli-v13-ya1 poss-cocoya-delya-liz +phrase.poss
    +phrase>. 55m-15|

  yolnonotzaya niquihcuiloa =none (noneyolnonotzaya niquihcuiloa).
    escreuir por minuta. <poss-p53-yo:lli-dupl-no:tza-ya1 p11-p33-
    ihcuilli-v03a-caus06>. 55m-8|

morpheme count 166




"Mr. Tezozomoc" <tezozomoc at hotmail.com>:

> In the
> Nahuatl to Spanish side of Molina's dictionary we read: "Teyolia. el alma, o
> anima." But, did we believe in a soul?  On the
> surface, teyoliatl looks like a noun. If we try to break it down we
> get teyoli
> and atl, ATL, water. So we say "okay, it's some kind of water".
>
> yoli
> looks like the verb YOLi, to live. So now we think it must some how
> be related
> to aguas vivas, and te must be TE, some one, people.
>
> But yoli
> cannot be YOLi because YOLi is intransitive and cannot take, the object
> TE.
> We could
> say teyoli is TEYOLiH, the preterit of TEYOLiA, to make some one live.
>
> But verbs
> are connected to nouns by CA. So we should expect TEYOLiHCAATL We're way off!
> Besides, life is YOLiZTLi. Let's take a different approach.
>
> What if
> it's not a noun? What if it's a verb disguised as a noun?
> If we
> remove the noun marker we're left with teyolia. This looks like a transitive
> verb YoLiA or YOLiA, with the nonspecific human object TE.
> I haven't
> come upon such a verb. But there are many i/iA verb pairs (aQUi/aQUiA,
> OLINi/OLINiA, iHUiNTi/iHUiNTiA, etc).
>
> So, we
> could say there might be a pair YOLi/YOLiA. Then, TEYOLiA would meen
> "it makes
> people live". And, TEYOLiATL would be the thing that makes people live.
>
> That's
> not how you nominalize verbs. If there was a verb YOLiA, we'd get 4 agentive
> nouns: TEYOLiHQUi, TEYOLiANi, TEYOLIZQUi, and YOLIZTLi. But not
> TEYOLiATL.
>
> In the
> Spanish to Nahuatl section of Molina's dictionary we read: "Alma o anima.
> teyolia, teyolitia, teanima."
>
> teyolia
> would be TEYOLiA, he/she makes make people live. But not even Molina
> has a verb
> YOLiA.
>
> And don't
> even think teyolia could be someone's YOLiA, 'cause this would be
> TEYOLiAUH.
> teyolitia
> is TEYOLITiA, he/she makes people live. YOLi has 2 causative forms:
> YOLiLTiA and
> YOLITiA. But not YOLiA.
>
> teanima
> is a Spanish/Nahuatl hybrid. It'd meen someone's soul.The use of
> Spanish anima
> indicates this is a foreign concept.
>
> The
> frailes used Spanhuatl for foreign things. Like peral quauitl, pear
> tree; hicox,
> fig; tiox, god; angelotin, angels; colos, cross; etc.
>
> All the
> early grammarians were frailes. That's why we find alma, confesion, pecado,
> fiesta de guardar, bautismo, salvacion, dios, etc.
>
> We have
> to consider that some terms may have been coined to answer como se
> dice esto o
> aquello.
>
> Simeon
> also has teyoliatl. But he based his dictionary on Molina's.
>
> Bierhorst
> doesn't have it. Which meens it's not used in the Cantares. Karttunen doesn't
> have it either. Which meens she couldn't make sense of it.
>
> "Ex Nihilo"
> It seems,
> at least to me, that teyoliatl is a word invented to name something
> the friars
> were describing.
> The
> foreignness of the concept is reflected in its ungrammatical construction.
>
>
> From Ruben Ramirez "Huitzilmazatzin"
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nahuatl mailing list
> Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
> http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl
>



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