xitomatl

[David Wright]

Listeros:

 

I looked hard for cases of assimilation /w/ + /t/ > /t/, to no avail. I
found several involving /w/ (see below), but none with /w/ + /t/. That seems
to weaken the /šiwitl/ hypothesis. There may be a problem with vowel length
(/i/ versus /i:/) as well, if /xi:tomatl/ does indeed have a long /i:/, as
Karttunen reconstructs it in her dictionary.

 

/w/ + /m/ > /mm/

/w/ + /p/ > /pp/

/tl/ + /w/ > /lw/

/ts/ + /w/ > / ts /

/č/ + /w/ > /č/

/n/ + /w/ > /w/

/m/ + /w/ > /w/

/w/ + /w/ > /w/

 

I couldn't find any cases of /k/ + /t/ > /t/ either, so that seems to put
the /ši:ktli/ hypothesis on shaky ground also. For years I thought this was
the etymology, but had never really thought about it critically.

 

I hope all these characters survive the trip through cyberspace.

 

Saludos,

 

David Wright

 

-----Mensaje original-----
De: nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org [mailto:nahuatl-bounces at lists.famsi.org]
En nombre de Michael McCafferty
Enviado el: miércoles, 24 de julio de 2013 05:16 a. m.
Para: Susana Moraleda
CC: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org
Asunto: Re: [Nahuat-l] xitomatl

 

 

Problem with this analysis is what happened to the /w/?

 

Michael

 

Quoting Susana Moraleda < <mailto:susana at losrancheros.org>
susana at losrancheros.org>:

 

> Thank you!!

> so......... xitomatl = xihuitl + tomahua = xiuhtomatl = 

> intensely-swollen (thing)?

> 

> 

> 

> On 24/07/2013 04:13, John Sullivan wrote:

>> Piyali notequixpoyohuan,

>>           I think we have already discussed this on the list, but here
goes.

>> 1. tomatl is a morpheme, or at least its root, "toma-" is. You can 

>> add the intransitive verbing suffix, "-hua" to it to get "tomahua".

>> 2. the noun "xihuitl", meaning "grass, green stone, turquoise". This 

>> is cited from Fran's dictionary where she adds "It also serves as a 

>> modifier for heat, indicating intensity" (324). So we put "xihuitl"

>> into its combining form, "xiuh", add it to "tomato" and we get 

>> "xiuhtomatl".

>>           This "xiuh-" is also used in Huastecan Nahuatl to big things,
so a 

>> "xiuhtlacatl" is a very big man.

>> John

>> 

>> On Jul 23, 2013, at 3:08 PM, Michael McCafferty 

>> < <mailto:mmccaffe at indiana.edu> mmccaffe at indiana.edu> wrote:

>> 

>>> Quoting Susana Moraleda < <mailto:susana at losrancheros.org>
susana at losrancheros.org>:

>>> 

>>>> Niltze nocniuhhuan,

>>>> I would like to understand, once and for all, the real ethymology 

>>>> of the word XITOMATL. I've searched and searched, and found many 

>>>> different (and often absurd) sources, but three are the ones that 

>>>> are almost omnipresent.

>>>> 

>>>> XICTLI, navel

>>>> XITOMA, peel off

>>>> TOMAHUAC, fat

>>>> 

>>> 

>>> This is a good question, Susana.

>>> 

>>> xi:ctli is not the source, as we'd have xi:ctomatl instead xi:tomatl.

>>> 

>>> Someone once told me that 'tomatl' came from toma:hua 'swell', but I 

>>> don't think so.

>>> 

>>> It seems the origin is the "peel" idea, and that there is a morpheme 

>>> with two allomorphs, xi:p- and xi:-, and they refer to peeling. The 

>>> toma is toma/tomi 'for something to loosen up'. Sounds like people 

>>> skinned these colorful xi:tomatl.

>>> 

>>> Michael

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>>> _______________________________________________

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>>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

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> 

> 

 

 

 

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