From idiez at me.com Sat Jul 5 23:12:56 2014 From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan) Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2014 19:12:56 -0400 Subject: ome tlahtlaniliztli Message-ID: Notlazohtequixpoyohuan, I have two questions, and I suspect I may have already asked one of them. 1. There seem to be two “nel-“ roots: one which produces nelli, “truth” and all of its derivatives; and another which produces neloa, "to mix s.t." and maneltic, “for grains, fruits or vegetables that one buys to be of mixed quality (small and large together, fresh and spoiled together, etc.). Are these indeed two separate roots? 2. Words having to do with coldness, seem to have two roots. Cetl, with a short e means “ice”, but it initial derivative forms cece:ya, “to become cold” and ce:hui, “to become cold or extinguished”, have a long e. But cecec, “cold” which would seem to be the preterite agentive of cecēya, has a short e. What is going on? John _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mlauney at wanadoo.fr Sun Jul 6 19:36:00 2014 From: mlauney at wanadoo.fr (M Launey) Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2014 21:36:00 +0200 Subject: ome tlahtlaniliztli Message-ID: Dear John and dear listeros I don’t have much to say about question 1. As for question 2, there is in my opinion a simple answer, but it raises new problems. The answer is : cecec (or even cece:c, see below), is not the preterite of cece:ya, but is directly formed on the root ce-, following a productive pattern which gives « adjectives » derived from noun stems, such as izta-c, xoco-c (and probably other ones with less clear stems, like poye-c, coco-c, tzopeli-c, I leave alone the problem of vowel length) I know the objection : izta-c could be a haplology for izta-ya-c. But deleting a whole syllable like /-ya-/ is unlikely and otherwise not clearly attested (the more so if xoco-c is supposed to come from xoco-ya-c or poye-c from poye-ya-c, i. e. with a preceding vowel other than /a/), and let me suggest another one which has a wider impact : the preterit value is not the basic one for the suffix –c (/-k/ and its variants (/-ki/ or zero – the plural /–k-e’/ guarantees its presence in the latter case – plus /–ka:-/ in derivation). Actually, it seems more reasonable and more fruitful to consider /-k/ with its variants as a participle marker. I hope not to bother you, but I need a few lines to explain this point. 1. The Latin word participium is a translation from Greek metochè, which first appeared as one of the eight “parts of speech” in the Grammar of Dionysius Thrax. These words were coined to express the fact that this form shares some properties with both the verb and the noun (adjectives being in the early grammatical theories a subclass of nouns): stating participles as part adjectival and part verbal forms appears a little everywhere in traditional grammars as well as in present-day linguistics. This is precisely what we have in Nahuatl: a sort of mixed or intermediate class of words, which can have more verbal or more adjectival/nominal uses, and be derived from both nominal and verbal stems. 2. The fact that a noun stem like izta- can receive a participial suffix has lots of parallels in many languages, for instance adjectives ending (just like past participles) in –é in French (e.g. orange > orangé “which has the color of an orange”, while there is no verb *oranger), or in –tus in Latin (barba > barbatus “bearded”, there is no verb *barbo, *barbare), and even in English (bearded is common, but the verb to beard is uncommon and does not mean “provide with a beard”). 3. Considering as participles all words in /-k/ (and variants) leads to a more comprehensive interpretation, since it accounts for all of their semantic values and uses: as past or future tense (“I wrote” = “I am having written”; “I will write” = “I am having to write” – which again has parallels in many languages, e.g. in Slavic languages where the “preterit” in –l is clearly an verbal adjective, i.e. a participle); and in more typically nominal (i.e.: tenseless) words such as agent nouns and possessive nouns in –ê, -huâ and –yô (“provided with N”, as in beard-ed above). In that case, there is no need for restoring verb stems or derivative verbs everywhere. The fact that inchoative derived verbs in /-ya/ have the same distribution as “adjectives” in /-k/ like izta-c (or more clearly deverbal ones like tlil-ti-c) is an interesting fact, but is not a hint for deletion of /-ya-/: actually, “preterits” (if you like) in –ti-ya-c are attested (sorry, I’m away from my Nahuatl library and can give no real corpus example right away). This leaves the problem of vowel length in cece-c. The first /e/ is clearly short, and first syllable reduplication /CV-/, i.e. with a short vowel, if admittedly much more unusual that /CV:-/ (with long vowel) and /CV'-/ (with saltillo), is attested in a few words. But do you really have corpus or dialectal evidence for the second also short? If so (but I'm waiting for convincing data), I’m ready to apologize for stating it long in my grammar. But whatever the case, it has no real incidence on the participial issue. Best Michel Launey > Message du 06/07/14 01:13 > De : "John Sullivan" > A : "list nahuatl discussion" > Copie à : > Objet : [Nahuat-l] ome tlahtlaniliztli > > Notlazohtequixpoyohuan, I have two questions, and I suspect I may have already asked one of them. 1. There seem to be two “nel-“ roots: one which produces nelli, “truth” and all of its derivatives; and another which produces neloa, "to mix s.t." and maneltic, “for grains, fruits or vegetables that one buys to be of mixed quality (small and large together, fresh and spoiled together, etc.). Are these indeed two separate roots? 2. Words having to do with coldness, seem to have two roots. Cetl, with a short e means “ice”, but it initial derivative forms cece:ya, “to become cold” and ce:hui, “to become cold or extinguished”, have a long e. But cecec, “cold” which would seem to be the preterite agentive of cecēya, has a short e. What is going on? John _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From idiez at me.com Mon Jul 7 04:00:26 2014 From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan) Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2014 00:00:26 -0400 Subject: Yale Summer Nahuatl Message-ID: Notequixpoyohuan, As usual I´ve taken too long to get this announcement out. We would love to have visitors to our program at Yale this summer. Come and spend a day or two with us. Sit in on a Modern Nahuatl class (Monday through Friday from 8:30 to 11:30am in Rosenkranz Hall). If you already know some Classical Nahuatl, work a few day with us in the intermediate/advanced Classical Nahuatl session (1-3pm for beginners, 4-6pm for intermediate/advanced). Bring a document or text you would like us to work on. Would you like to give a short talk on your research? We are doing brown-bag lunch talks Monday through Friday between 11:30am and 1pm. July 17, we´ll be doing the corn seed blessing ceremony in the evening and July 18 in the morning, we´ll be planting corn. Come and join us! If you would like to stop by, write to me at idiez at me.com. John John Sullivan, Ph.D. Director, Yale Summer Nahuatl Program Visiting scholar, Faculty of Artes Liberales University of Warsaw; Professor of Nahua language and culture Universidad Autónoma de Zacatecas; Director, Zacatecas Institute of Teaching and Research in Ethnology Tacuba 152, int. 43 Centro Histórico Zacatecas, Zac. 98000 Mexico Work: +52 (492) 925-3415 Home: +52 (492) 768-6048 Mobile (Poland): +48 73-380-9876 Mobile (Mexico): +52 1 (492) 103-0195 Mobile (US): (203) 823-7790 sullivan at al.uw.edu.pl idiez at me.com www.macehualli.org _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From susana at losrancheros.org Tue Jul 15 16:18:31 2014 From: susana at losrancheros.org (Susana Moraleda) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2014 18:18:31 +0200 Subject: omichicahuaztli and the miccacuicatl Message-ID: A pupil of mine has to do a research on the Miccacuicatl and the omichicahuaztli which was used to accompany the song. She is asking me where can she find detailed descriptions of both, but I really do not know what to tell her since this is not my specific field of expertise. Could anyone please advise? Thanks mil, Susana _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From Ian.Mursell at btinternet.com Wed Jul 16 17:56:50 2014 From: Ian.Mursell at btinternet.com (Ian Mursell) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2014 18:56:50 +0100 Subject: omichicahuaztli and the miccacuicatl In-Reply-To: <53C55457.5040606@losrancheros.org> Message-ID: Greetings, Susana. The fullest description I know of of the omichicahuaztli, which contains a brief reference to the miccacuicatl, is a four-page section in Robert Stevenson's classic study 'Music in Aztec & Inca Territory (1968), pp. 56-60. The work is available online, here - http://www.ebookdb.org/reading/G770G81974183F2C7DG62069/Music-In-Aztec--Inc a-Territory Hope this helps. Muchos saludos, Ian Ian Mursell Mexicolore, London www.aztecs.org Now: The Maya AND the Aztecs! On 15/07/2014 17:18, "Susana Moraleda" wrote: >A pupil of mine has to do a research on the Miccacuicatl and the >omichicahuaztli which was used to accompany the song. She is asking me >where can she find detailed descriptions of both, but I really do not >know what to tell her since this is not my specific field of expertise. > Could anyone please advise? > >Thanks mil, >Susana >_______________________________________________ >Nahuatl mailing list >Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org >http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From idiez at me.com Thu Jul 17 15:34:04 2014 From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2014 11:34:04 -0400 Subject: Tercer Encuentro Interdialectal del N=?iso-8859-1?Q?=E1huatl_?=(in New York) Message-ID: Notequixpoyohuan, IDIEZ, the U of Warsaw and Yale University will be putting on our Third Interdialectical Encounter of Nahuatl on Saturday, July 26 at the Mexican Consulate in New York. Activities begin at 9:30am and end at 4:45pm. Everything will be in Nahuatl, but non-native speakers may attend as observers. We only have enough room for 80 people, and native speakers will have preference for participation. Contact me at idiez at me.com or (203) 823-7790 if you would like to RSVP. I am attaching a link below to the flyer with more information. Best, John https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/15911797/3er%20encuentro.pdf _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From campbel at indiana.edu Fri Jul 18 03:05:27 2014 From: campbel at indiana.edu (Campbell, R. Joe) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2014 23:05:27 -0400 Subject: omichicahuaztli and the miccacuicatl In-Reply-To: <53C55457.5040606@losrancheros.org> Message-ID: Dear Susana, I thought that the actual usage of "micca-" and "-chicahuaztli" might be helpful. The material quoted here is from Dibble and Anderson's edition of the Florentine Codex. The original extremely variable spelling has been regularized a la Andrews. "b." numbers refer to Book and "p.", of course, to page, and "f." to my own file structure. Joe immiccahuan** 1. zatepan cecentetl quintlatlaliliaya, quimmamanilia in *immiccahuan*, in oncan totoctoque:. then they set them in place, they laid them as offerings for each of their dead, there where they each lay buried. (b.2 f.10 p.166). micca** 2. auh in yehhuatl *micca* cihuatl ye no cempoalxihuitl oce inen ihuan oc ce quichiuh iconeuh oquichtli:. and this woman who had died lived another twenty-one years, and once more bore a son. (b.8 f.1 p.3). miccaahuexotl** 3. huexotl, ahuexotl, *miccaahuexotl*. willow (b.11 f.11 p.110). miccahua** 4. auh izcatqui ic quitlatlauhtiaya in *miccahua*.. and here is that with which they entreated the mourner: (b.3 f.3 p.42). miccahuati** 5. chocatinemi, tehcoyouhtinemi, iuhquin *miccahuati*, quinchoquilia in otlacotique, in ommicque.. he went weeping, he went howling like one bereaved; he wept for those who had suffered, who had died. (b.2 f.1 p.55). 6. auh inic quitoca, cenca quimahuiztilia, omilhuitl, eilhuitl in *miccahuati*, mitotia, cuica:. and when they buried him, they paid him great honor; two days, three days, they mourned; there was dancing, there was singing. (b.10 f.10 p.174). miccahuatini** 7. in cualli teezyo, *miccahuatini*, tlamacehuani, tlatlatlauhtiani, tlateomatini, teoyo, neconi, temoloni, ilnamiconi.. the good one of noble lineage [is] a mourner for the dead, a doer of penances, a gracious speaker; devout, godly, desirable, wanted, memorable. likely that it is related to praying (b.10 f.2 p.22). miccahuatizque** 8. ic quitemachitia, inic nahuilhuitl ilnamicoz, *miccahuatizque* in ichantlaca,. thus they made it known that during four days there would be remembrances; his household would mourn. (b.4 f.7 p.67). miccamonnantli** 9. monnantli, *miccamonnantli*,. mother-in-law -- mother-in-law of a deceased person (b.10 f.1 p.7). miccamontatli** 10. montatli *miccamontatli*. father-in-law --- father-in-law of a deceased person (b.10 f.1 p.7). miccanacatl** 11. ihuan itoca in *miccanacatl* in opalan, in otlaltic.. and it is the name of the body of the dead which has decayed, which has become dust. (b.11 f.24 p.251). miccatlalli** 12. *miccatlalli*:. miccatlalli (b.11 f.24 p.251). miccatzintli** 13. tenitzintli *miccatzintli*,. [he is] stupid, torpid. (b.10 f.2 p.25). 14. in amo cualli zoquichiuhqui, xolopitli, nextecuili, *miccatzintli*. the bad potter [is] silly, stupid, torpid. (b.10 f.3 p.42). 15. in ahuiyani, ca cihuatlahueliloc, inacayo ic mahuiltiani, nacanamacac, nanacanamacac, ichpochtlahueliloc, ilamatlahueliloc, tlahuanqui, xocomicqui, tequixocomicqui, tequitlahuanqui, iellelacic, tlacamicqui, xochimicqui, tlaaltilli, teomicqui, teopoliuhqui, *miccatzintli*,. the carnal woman is an evil woman who finds pleasure in her body; who sells her body -- repeatedly sells her body; an evil young woman [or] an evil old woman, besotted, drunk -- very drunk, much besotted; dejected, perverse; [like] a sacrificial victim, a bathed slave, a captive; full of affliction, mortal. (b.10 f.3 p.55). miccatzontecomayo** 16. niman imac contequilia, in itlema, no *miccatzontecomayo*, inic tlacuilolli, amacuitlapile.. they placed in his hand his incense ladle, also painted with the skulls of the dead, and with paper pendants [on the handle]. (b.8 f.4 p.62). miccauh** 17. mazo yehhua, momitzmahuilti in macehualli: auh mazo mitztlacaahuilo in *miccauh*, in machcauh: in axcan ca otiteot,. "although the common folk have gladdened thee, and although thy younger brother, thy older brother have put their trust in thee, now thou art deified." (b.6 f.5 p.52). 18. oc ye centlamantli, amo zan *miccauh*, amo zan machcauh: in iyollo, amo zan no iuhquin moyollo,. still another thing: is not the heart of thy younger brother, of thy older brother the same as thy heart? (b.6 f.6 p.73). miccauhtzin** 19. a ca nechhualmihuali, onechhualtopeuh in tlacatl in *miccauhtzin*, in tlatoani in n: in nachca in tlapializtli mitzommochihuililia in n:. verily the lord, thy younger brother, the ruler n., who out there serveth as guard for thee in [the city of] n., sent me, dispatched me here. (b.6 f.15 p.189). 20. ca commitalhuia. tla xoyatiuh: xichualmottili in tlacatl, in *miccauhtzin*: in tlacoti, in tequiti:. "he said: 'o, see the lord my younger brother who serveth, who governeth.'" (b.6 f.15 p.189). miccaxochitl** 21. cequi itoca *miccaxochitl*; ihuan itoca: tlahuancaxochitl,. some are called miccaxochitl, and some are called tlauancaxochitl. (b.11 f.20 p.205). miccaxoxocoyoli** 22. *miccaxoxocoyoli*:. miccaxoxocoyoli (b.11 f.14 p.138). 23. chamahuac iuhquin *miccaxoxocoyoli*, yece huelic, ahuiac, cualli,. it is thick like the miccaxoxocoyoli; however, it is tasty, savory, good. (b.11 f.14 p.139). miccaxoxoyoli** 24. quinamaca eloquilitl, mozoquilitl, tzitziquilitl, tepicquilitl, mahtzalquilitl, tzayanalquilitl, ahuexocaquilitl, chilquilitl, huauhquilitl, huauhquiltzontli, xoxocoyoli, xoxocoyolpapatla, xoxocoyolhuihuilan, cuauhxoxocoyoli, *miccaxoxoyoli*, xoxocoyolcuecuepo ayauhtona, tacanalquilitl, mexixi, popoyauhquilitl, atzihuequilitl, calahuauhquilitl, itzmiquilitl. she sells eloquilitl, mo‡oquilitl, tzitziquilitl, tepicquilitl, matzalquilitl, tzayanalquilitl, auexocaquilitl, chilquilitl, amaranth greens, amaranth heads, several varieties of sorrel, ayauhtonan, tacanalquilitl, watercress, popoyauhquilitl, atziuequilitl, calauauhquilitl, a species of purslane. miccaxoxocoyoli; D miccazayoli** 25. *miccazayoli*:. micca‡ayolin (b.11 f.10 p.101). 26. inic mitoa *miccazayoli* quil intonal in tomiccahuan:. it is called micca‡ayolin because it is said it is the lot of corpses. (b.11 f.11 p.101). momiccaaltia** 27. ic mitoa, *momiccaaltia* inic compopoloa, coniilcahua intlaocol:. thus it was said, the deceased was bathed; and thereby they destroyed and banished their grief. (b.4 f.7 p.67). momiccanenequia** 28. auh in cequintin intlan momaquixtique, intlan cacalacque in ohuelmicque, zan *momiccanenequia*,. and some escaped [the spaniards] among [the dead]; they got in among those really dead, only by feigning to be dead. (b.12 f.4 p.56). momiccatlaza** 29. zan niman yolmiqui, zotlahua, chapantihuetzi, *momiccatlaza*: quinequi, macuelyeh ihiyotl onquiza, macuelyeh conihiyohui, macuelyeh ompolihui, macuelyeh commotlaxili, in imiquiztequiuh.. at once he faltered, he fainted, he fell on the surface, he threw himself down as if dead, he wished that breath might end, that he might endure it, that he might perish, that he might cast off the burden of death. (b.2 f.1 p.53). momiccatlazani** 30. in cualli cuachi micalini milacatzoani, *momiccatlazani* tlacemoliniani, teochpahuazhuiani. the good shorn one [is] a skirmisher, an aggressor, who hurls himself to his death; a vanquisher, a sweeper away [of the foe]. (b.10 f.2 p.23). moxochimiccanenequi** 31. tlaaltilnemi, *moxochimiccanenequi*, aquetztinemi, tlaxocotinemi mihuintitinemi momixihuitinemi, monanacahuitinemi,. she lives like a bathed slave, acts like a sacrificial victim; she goes about with her head high -- rude, drunk, shameless -- eating mushrooms. (b.10 f.3 p.55). nomamiccatzin** 32. ic nichoca ic nitlaocoya ic ninentlamati in niquilnamiqui ac ye in *nomamiccatzin*, ac ye in notenhuacauh.. thus I weep, I am saddened, I am discontent when I reflect upon which one is my sluggard, which one my incoherent one. (b.6 f.7 p.87). omimicca** 33. in iuhqui *omimicca* cocoliztica: oncan acohuetzi, chicahua:. those who are as if faint with sickness are there calmed, strengthened. (b.11 f.19 p.191). ommomiccatlazaya** 34. ihuan miequintin in ommotlacomayahuia yaoc *ommomiccatlazaya*, inca ommomotlaya in inyaohuan,. and many withdrew themselves as enslaved, cast themselves to their deaths in war, threw themselves against their foes. (b.3 f.1 p.7). tlacamiccacihuatl** 35. poxacuatl, poxacuatlacectli, poxacuacihuatl, xochicihuatl, *tlacamiccacihuatl* tlacamicqui. [she is] a sleepy-head, a dried-out sleepy-head, an oversleeping woman; a pervert, a perverted woman, perverse. (b.10 f.3 p.50). tlacamiccapopol** 36. f. ointlahueliltic, in yehhuanti, in *tlacamiccapopol*, in quimoteotique, in tetlaxintli, in cuahuitl tlaxintli, in teixiptla, in tepatillo: in teocuitlatl, in anozo tepoztli, ic tlachiuhtli: in anozo ye oquimoteotique, in manenemi, in patlantinemi, in atlan nemi: in anozo imixiptlahuan, in quinxinque, in cuauhxinque, in tetzotzonque, in anozo in teocuitlapitzque, oquipitzque.. f. unhappy are they, the accursed dead who worshipped as gods carvings of stone, carvings of wood, representations, images, things made of gold or of copper, or who indeed worshipped as gods four-footed animals, creatures which fly, those which live in the waters, or their representations which carpenters or lapidaries carved, or metal-workers molded. (b.1 f.3 p.57). tlacamiccati** 37. ahuilquiza, ahuilhuehueti, teopilti xohxoloti, *tlacamiccati*.. he is reviled; he becomes decrepit, senile, feeble, perverted. (b.10 f.2 p.37). tomicca** 38. ca tilamatque in tontonotza, ca anquimotztiliticate in ixquich *tomicca* ticihuatzitzinti, in ipan tititzin:. for we are the old women who consult among ourselves; you are seeing all of the mortality among us women in our wombs. (b.6 f.13 p.158). 39. cuix ah *tomicca* in ticihuatzitzinti ca toyaoyouh: ca oncan miquiztequiti in cihuacoatl, in quilaztli in tonantzin.. certainly it is our mortality, we who are women, for it is our battle, for at this time our mother, ciuacoatl, quilaztli exacteth the tribute of death. (b.6 f.15 p.180). tomiccahuan** 40. inic mitoa miccazayoli quil intonal in *tomiccahuan*:. it is called micca‡ayolin because it is said it is the lot of corpses. (b.11 f.11 p.101). topilmiccayo** 41. zan cuel itla mopan huallaz, *topilmiccayo* techmaitiliz in toteucyo:. soon something will befall thee; our lord will bring about for us the death of our child. (b.6 f.12 p.142). xocomiccayotl** 42. pipillo, coconeyo, ihuincayotl, *xocomiccayotl*:. babyishness, childishness, besottedness, drunkenness (b.6 f.20 p.250). 43. in ihcuac aca huel itla quichihua, anozo huellatoa: amo quitoaya in aquin. in cenca huel onoconchiuh, anozo huel onitlato: zan quitoa. onoconchiuh, anozo onoconito in pipillotl, in coconeyotl, in ihuincayotl, *xocomiccayotl*: anozo in chocholocayotl, in aaccayotl:. when one did something well or spoke well, he did not say: "I did it very well," or, "I spoke well"; he just said: "I have performed, or I have said a thing of babyishness, of childishness, of besottedness, of drunkenness; or of folly, of imperfection. (b.6 f.20 p.250). ayauhchicahuaztica** 1. *ayauhchicahuaztica*,. with mist-bringing rattles (b.2 f.14 p.225). 2. *ayauhchicahuaztica*,. with mist-bringing rattles (b.2 f.14 p.225). ayauhchicahuaztli** 3. ihuan ce cuacuilli conquechpanoa, *ayauhchicahuaztli*:. and an old priest bore upon his shoulders the mist rattle board. (b.2 f.4 p.85). ayochicahuaze** 4. *ayochicahuaze*, cacalaca;. she carried the mist rattle-board, which she sounded. (b.1 f.1 p.22). ayochicahuaztli** 5. quiquechpanotiuh, *ayochicahuaztli*, no itoca nahualcuahuitl,. he went bearing on his shoulders the mist rattle board, also called the sorcerer's staff. (b.2 f.3 p.81). 6. auh in ocontepeuh, niman commaca in *ayochicahuaztli*,. and when he had scattered it, then they gave him the mist rattle board. (b.2 f.4 p.87). 7. ce tlacatl quiquechpanoa, in *ayochicahuaztli*, excan in cacalaca:. a man carried the mist rattle board upon his shoulders; it rattled in three places. (b.2 f.5 p.105). cayochicahuaz** 8. *cayochicahuaz* ilhuitinemi, quicuicatia in calpoleque, icuicacahuan.. with the mist rattle-board they went speaking; the elders of the calpulli, her singers, sang for her. (b.1 f.1 p.22). chicahuaz** 9. ic *chicahuaz* in monacayo,. with it thy body will gain strength. (b.3 f.2 p.18). chicahuazotiuh** 10. ihuan ichicahuaz yetiuh, *chicahuazotiuh*,. and his rattle stick went with him; he went rattling his rattle stick. (b.2 f.1 p.46). chicahuaztica** 11. auh intla ceme anoya, in tezaloani, quinhuihuitequi in xipeme, in *chicahuaztica*,. and if some of the interceptors were taken, the xipeme beat them repeatedly with the rattle sticks. (b.2 f.1 p.50). 12. *chicahuaztica*, motlaquechizca.. on rattle stick upraised (b.2 f.14 p.236). 13. *chicahuaztica* motlaquechizca.. on rattle stick upraised (b.2 f.14 p.236). chicahuaztli** 14. *chicahuaztli* concacalachiliaya. they shook the rattle-boards for him. (b.1 f.2 p.37). 15. *chicahuaztli* in imac icac.. his rattle stick was in his hand. (b.1 f.2 p.40). 16. quitilquetztiuh in *chicahuaztli*, chachalaca, cacalaca.. he went planting the rattle stick forcefully [on the ground]; it rattled; it jingled. (b.2 f.1 p.46). 17. ixpan quihualtilquetza in *chicahuaztli*, quicacalatza: ihuan iyauhtli ic quihualnamiqui, ihuicpa quihualchayahua.. before her he set up the rattle board; he rattled it, and with yauhtli went forth to receive her, and scattered it toward her. (b.2 f.5 p.105). 18. *chicahuaztli* motlaquechizca.. like rattle stick upraised (b.2 f.14 p.236). ichicahuaz** 19. ihuan *ichicahuaz* yetiuh, chicahuazotiuh,. and his rattle stick went with him; he went rattling his rattle stick. (b.2 f.1 p.46). 20. motlaloa mochimalcaltitiuh, quicacalatztiuh *ichicahuaz*. he ran; he went sheltering himself under his shield; he went rattling his rattle board. (b.2 f.2 p.59). 21. in ichimal ihuan in *ichicahuaz* chichiltic,. her shield and her rattle stick were chili-red. (b.2 f.5 p.103). 22. *ichicahuaz* yetiuh. anozo itzpapalotl. anozo quetzalcomitl teocuitlayo in quimama. he had his rattle stick with him, or the obsidian butterfly or quetzal feather cup [device] set with gold, which he carried upon his back. (b.8 f.5 p.84). 23. ihuan *ichicahuaz* cacalacaya, imayauhcampa quitzitzquiaya: in ihcuac tlalpan quitilquetza cacalaca,. and his rattle stick rattled as he grasped it in his right hand; when he thrust it in the ground it rattled. (b.9 f.5 p.69). 24. auh inic tetlattitiaya, mitotiaya, momamamantinemi in ichimal: ihuan quitilquetztinemi in *ichicahuaz*.. and thus [the impersonator] exhibited [the devices]: he danced, he went brandishing his shield; and he went thrusting his rattle board into the ground. (b.9 f.5 p.70). inchicahuaztopil** 25. inchimal immaccuauh yetiuh *inchicahuaztopil*.. they had their shields, their war clubs, and their rattle sticks. (b.8 f.5 p.85). iyauhchicahuaztli** 26. ma moloni *iyauhchicahuaztli* ma huihuixahui in ayachcuahuitl:. may mist rattle boards billow; may cloud rattle boards shake. (b.6 f.4 p.39). omichicahuaztli** 27. *omichicahuaztli*.. the bone rasp. (b.6 f.19 p.239). quichicahuazque** 28. quinnahuatiaya in cuicanime: inic quiyehecozque inic *quichicahuazque* in cuicatl, ihuan teponaztli, olmaitl, huehuetl: ihuan in ixquich macehuallatquitl,. he commanded the singers to rehearse and practise the song and [to prepare] the two-toned drums, the rubber drum hammers, and the ground drums, and all the properties used in the dance. (b.8 f.3 p.56). tichicahuaz** 29. oc cenca timoyollotechihuaz, oc *tichicahuaz*, oc timaciz:. "especially art thou to become courageous, art thou yet to become strong, art thou yet to reach maturity." (b.6 f.10 p.116). 30. oncan o, ic ipan *tichicahuaz* in tlapaliuhcayotl in nenamictiliztli:. then, thereby, thou wilt become strong in the union, in the marriage. (b.6 f.10 p.116). Quoting Susana Moraleda : > A pupil of mine has to do a research on the Miccacuicatl and the > omichicahuaztli which was used to accompany the song. She is asking > me where can she find detailed descriptions of both, but I really do > not know what to tell her since this is not my specific field of > expertise. > Could anyone please advise? > > Thanks mil, > Susana > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From campbel at indiana.edu Fri Jul 18 20:07:05 2014 From: campbel at indiana.edu (Campbell, R. Joe) Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2014 16:07:05 -0400 Subject: omichicahuaztli Message-ID: Susana and everyone, I goofed. A thoughtful friend has pointed out to me that the "chicahuaztli" list included some tokens of the verb "chicahua". Here is the revised list. Hopefully, the "micca-" list remains intact. Joe ayauhchicahuaztica** 1. *ayauhchicahuaztica*,. with mist-bringing rattles (b.2 f.14 p.225). 2. *ayauhchicahuaztica*,. with mist-bringing rattles (b.2 f.14 p.225). ayauhchicahuaztli** 3. ihuan ce cuacuilli conquechpanoa, *ayauhchicahuaztli*:. and an old priest bore upon his shoulders the mist rattle board. (b.2 f.4 p.85). ayochicahuaze** 4. *ayochicahuaze*, cacalaca;. she carried the mist rattle-board, which she sounded. (b.1 f.1 p.22). ayochicahuaztli** 5. quiquechpanotiuh, *ayochicahuaztli*, no itoca nahualcuahuitl,. he went bearing on his shoulders the mist rattle board, also called the sorcerer's staff. (b.2 f.3 p.81). 6. auh in ocontepeuh, niman commaca in *ayochicahuaztli*,. and when he had scattered it, then they gave him the mist rattle board. (b.2 f.4 p.87). 7. ce tlacatl quiquechpanoa, in *ayochicahuaztli*, excan in cacalaca:. a man carried the mist rattle board upon his shoulders; it rattled in three places. (b.2 f.5 p.105). cayochicahuaz** 8. *cayochicahuaz* ilhuitinemi, quicuicatia in calpoleque, icuicacahuan.. with the mist rattle-board they went speaking; the elders of the calpulli, her singers, sang for her. (b.1 f.1 p.22). chicahuaz** NOT CHICAHUAZTLI chicahuazotiuh** 10. ihuan ichicahuaz yetiuh, *chicahuazotiuh*,. and his rattle stick went with him; he went rattling his rattle stick. (b.2 f.1 p.46). chicahuaztica** 11. auh intla ceme anoya, in tezaloani, quinhuihuitequi in xipeme, in *chicahuaztica*,. and if some of the interceptors were taken, the xipeme beat them repeatedly with the rattle sticks. (b.2 f.1 p.50). 12. *chicahuaztica*, motlaquechizca.. on rattle stick upraised (b.2 f.14 p.236). 13. *chicahuaztica* motlaquechizca.. on rattle stick upraised (b.2 f.14 p.236). chicahuaztli** 14. *chicahuaztli* concacalachiliaya. they shook the rattle-boards for him. (b.1 f.2 p.37). 15. *chicahuaztli* in imac icac.. his rattle stick was in his hand. (b.1 f.2 p.40). 16. quitilquetztiuh in *chicahuaztli*, chachalaca, cacalaca.. he went planting the rattle stick forcefully [on the ground]; it rattled; it jingled. (b.2 f.1 p.46). 17. ixpan quihualtilquetza in *chicahuaztli*, quicacalatza: ihuan iyauhtli ic quihualnamiqui, ihuicpa quihualchayahua.. before her he set up the rattle board; he rattled it, and with yauhtli went forth to receive her, and scattered it toward her. (b.2 f.5 p.105). 18. *chicahuaztli* motlaquechizca.. like rattle stick upraised (b.2 f.14 p.236). ichicahuaz** 19. ihuan *ichicahuaz* yetiuh, chicahuazotiuh,. and his rattle stick went with him; he went rattling his rattle stick. (b.2 f.1 p.46). 20. motlaloa mochimalcaltitiuh, quicacalatztiuh *ichicahuaz*. he ran; he went sheltering himself under his shield; he went rattling his rattle board. (b.2 f.2 p.59). 21. in ichimal ihuan in *ichicahuaz* chichiltic,. her shield and her rattle stick were chili-red. (b.2 f.5 p.103). 22. *ichicahuaz* yetiuh. anozo itzpapalotl. anozo quetzalcomitl teocuitlayo in quimama. he had his rattle stick with him, or the obsidian butterfly or quetzal feather cup [device] set with gold, which he carried upon his back. (b.8 f.5 p.84). 23. ihuan *ichicahuaz* cacalacaya, imayauhcampa quitzitzquiaya: in ihcuac tlalpan quitilquetza cacalaca,. and his rattle stick rattled as he grasped it in his right hand; when he thrust it in the ground it rattled. (b.9 f.5 p.69). 24. auh inic tetlattitiaya, mitotiaya, momamamantinemi in ichimal: ihuan quitilquetztinemi in *ichicahuaz*.. and thus [the impersonator] exhibited [the devices]: he danced, he went brandishing his shield; and he went thrusting his rattle board into the ground. (b.9 f.5 p.70). inchicahuaztopil** 25. inchimal immaccuauh yetiuh *inchicahuaztopil*.. they had their shields, their war clubs, and their rattle sticks. (b.8 f.5 p.85). iyauhchicahuaztli** 26. ma moloni *iyauhchicahuaztli* ma huihuixahui in ayachcuahuitl:. may mist rattle boards billow; may cloud rattle boards shake. (b.6 f.4 p.39). omichicahuaztli** 27. *omichicahuaztli*.. the bone rasp. (b.6 f.19 p.239). quichicahuazque** NOT CHICAHUAZTLI tichicahuaz** NOT CHICAHUAZTLI _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From idiez at me.com Mon Jul 28 20:50:17 2014 From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 16:50:17 -0400 Subject: tenhuia Message-ID: Notequixpoyohuan, I have come across a word that isn’t in Molina or the Florentine. It is in a 1663 will from Chalco Tlalmanalco. The testator says that he sold a piece of land, and then says, “ahmo aquin quitenhuiz”. I assume this is tenhuia, nic., perhaps meaning “no one will contest it”, as in “to apply words to it”. Any ideas? John _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Mon Jul 28 20:58:31 2014 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 16:58:31 -0400 Subject: tenhuia In-Reply-To: <449193A3-A437-4FFE-BA52-04BDF1ED3B86@me.com> Message-ID: Quoting John Sullivan : > Notequixpoyohuan, > I have come across a word that isn't in Molina or the Florentine. It > is in a 1663 will from Chalco Tlalmanalco. The testator says that he > sold a piece of land, and then says, "ahmo aquin quitenhuiz". I > assume this is tenhuia, nic., perhaps meaning "no one will contest > it", as in "to apply words to it". Any ideas? > John > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > Sounds like you're on track, John. There is tenhuitequi, which includes the meaning of voice, and tenhuia certainly sounds like your "to apply words to". Best, Michael _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mlauney at wanadoo.fr Tue Jul 29 09:56:25 2014 From: mlauney at wanadoo.fr (M Launey) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2014 11:56:25 +0200 Subject: tenhuia Message-ID: Dear listeros, Yes, John Sullivan’s interpretation is correct, since –huia (/-wia/) is a very productive suffix, which apparently can be used freely with any noun stem (and many locatives). The general meaning is « apply N to », and is liable to various semantic effects (I’m not sure this is the correct word). For instance (unless otherwise specified, references are from Florentine Codex, pages after Dibble and Anderson’s version, I leave alone vowel length) : - « cover with N », « apply N on… » : (IX,93) c-on-ix-tzauc-huia’ « they cover its surface/face with glue » ; (Carochi) ni-n-ez-huia « I stain myself with blood » etc. - « send N to », « strike/hit with N » : (XII,22) Quin-tlacatecolo-hui-z-que’ « They will bewitch them » (litt. "apply/send devils to them") ; (VI,228) o-nech-cuacua-hui-zquia « (the bull) nearly gored me » (litt. « hit me with its horn »), etc. - « tell N to s.o. » : (XII,5) Ma ti-qu-iztlaca-hui’-tin « Let’s avoid to tell lies to him » - « put N in… » : (XI,4) Mo-tlacomol-huia « (The tapir) gets into the pit » (litt. « applies the pit to itself ») - « carry in N » (XII,66) C-on-acal-hui’-to’ « They went carrying him in a boat » They are other specific, more idiosyncratic meanings, like (III,33) O-mo-tezca-hui’ « He looked at himself in the mirror » (VI,153) An-nech-mo-ma’pil-hui-lia’ « You point your finger at me » (XII,63) Quin-teocal-hui’-que’ « (The Spaniards) threw (the Mexican warriors) down the temple » And with locative/adverbial stems : (VI,234) Ni-c-te-ixpan-huia « I accuse him publicly », lit. « I apply someone’s front to him » (VI,122) Ti-c-ne’matca-hui-z « You’ll do it cautiously » (XII,2) Mo-no’ma’-hui’ in tlatlac « (The temple) burnt of itself », lit. « applied itself spontaneously (the fact) that it burned » (IV,106) Ti-c-o’-op-pa-hui-z-quê « We’ll do that in two tries » (is that correct English ?) And with quantifiers, with –ca- (/-ka:/) : (II,71) Qui-nauh-ca-huia’ « They join four together to carry it », litt. « They apply four to it » etc. So « contest » is a highly plausible translation for a verb which litterally means « apply one’s lips/words to » But ten-huitequi is of course a different formation which does not contain –huia (a compound verb : huitequi «strike, hit» with ten-  incorporated). I found an occurrence in FC (XII,2) in impersonal: ne-ten-huitec-o-ya (Dibble and Anderson's translation is: "There was the striking of the palm of the hand against the mouth": this is one of the expressions of fear when the Mexicans saw the bad omens) There are ditransitive uses of a few verbs in –huia, as far as I know always reflexive. One is tetza(uh)-huia « take as a bad omen », litt « put N as a bad omen to oneself », e.g. (XI,70) Qui-mo-tetza-huia "He considers that it is a bad omen" . The commonest one is cuitla-huia « take care of », which I think (but am not totally sure) is related with cuitla- « back » (not « excrement »), so ni-c-no-cuitla-huia (there are hundreds of occurrences in the corpus) could mean « I apply my back to », i.e. « I carry it/him/her on my back » > « I take good care of » Best M.L. > Message du 29/07/14 01:47 > De : "Michael McCafferty" > A : nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > Copie à : > Objet : Re: [Nahuat-l] tenhuia > > Quoting John Sullivan : > > > Notequixpoyohuan, > > I have come across a word that isn't in Molina or the Florentine. It > > is in a 1663 will from Chalco Tlalmanalco. The testator says that he > > sold a piece of land, and then says, "ahmo aquin quitenhuiz". I > > assume this is tenhuia, nic., perhaps meaning "no one will contest > > it", as in "to apply words to it". Any ideas? > > John > > _______________________________________________ > > Nahuatl mailing list > > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > > > > Sounds like you're on track, John. There is tenhuitequi, which includes > the meaning of voice, and tenhuia certainly sounds like your "to apply > words to". > > Best, > > Michael > > > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From t.amaya at eninfinitum.com Tue Jul 29 11:58:50 2014 From: t.amaya at eninfinitum.com (Tomas Amaya) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2014 06:58:50 -0500 Subject: tenhuia In-Reply-To: <20140728165831.4gfgdnwuo8wwsw0o@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: Hi Tocnihuan! The word is used in Nahuat with the meaning "talk about somebody/something”; “remember something /somebody”, etc. Using your example: ahmo aquin quitenhuiz (the piece of land): nobody will talk about it/nobody will remember it/nobody will mention it/nobody will say anything about it. Namechoyoltapalohua! Tomas Amaya > Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 16:58:31 -0400 > From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu > To: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > Subject: Re: [Nahuat-l] tenhuia > > Quoting John Sullivan : > > > Notequixpoyohuan, > > I have come across a word that isn't in Molina or the Florentine. It > > is in a 1663 will from Chalco Tlalmanalco. The testator says that he > > sold a piece of land, and then says, "ahmo aquin quitenhuiz". I > > assume this is tenhuia, nic., perhaps meaning "no one will contest > > it", as in "to apply words to it". Any ideas? > > John > > _______________________________________________ > > Nahuatl mailing list > > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > > > > Sounds like you're on track, John. There is tenhuitequi, which includes > the meaning of voice, and tenhuia certainly sounds like your "to apply > words to". > > Best, > > Michael > > > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From Norbert.Francis at nau.edu Wed Jul 30 15:56:19 2014 From: Norbert.Francis at nau.edu (Norbert Francis) Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 15:56:19 +0000 Subject: TV Malintzin Message-ID: TV Malintzin presents programs number 20, 21 and 22: (20) Legend of the volcanoes (21) The ghost (22) The freeloader http://www.youtube.com/user/TVMalintzin. On Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/pages/TV-Malintzin/609100105778209 _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From idiez at me.com Sat Jul 5 23:12:56 2014 From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan) Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2014 19:12:56 -0400 Subject: ome tlahtlaniliztli Message-ID: Notlazohtequixpoyohuan, I have two questions, and I suspect I may have already asked one of them. 1. There seem to be two ?nel-? roots: one which produces nelli, ?truth? and all of its derivatives; and another which produces neloa, "to mix s.t." and maneltic, ?for grains, fruits or vegetables that one buys to be of mixed quality (small and large together, fresh and spoiled together, etc.). Are these indeed two separate roots? 2. Words having to do with coldness, seem to have two roots. Cetl, with a short e means ?ice?, but it initial derivative forms cece:ya, ?to become cold? and ce:hui, ?to become cold or extinguished?, have a long e. But cecec, ?cold? which would seem to be the preterite agentive of cec?ya, has a short e. What is going on? John _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mlauney at wanadoo.fr Sun Jul 6 19:36:00 2014 From: mlauney at wanadoo.fr (M Launey) Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2014 21:36:00 +0200 Subject: ome tlahtlaniliztli Message-ID: Dear John and dear listeros I don?t have much to say about question 1. As for question 2, there is in my opinion a simple answer, but it raises new problems. The answer is?: cecec (or even cece:c, see below), is not the preterite of cece:ya, but is directly formed on the root ce-, following a productive pattern which gives ??adjectives?? derived from noun stems, such as izta-c, xoco-c (and probably other ones with less clear stems, like poye-c, coco-c, tzopeli-c, I leave alone the problem of vowel length) I know the objection?: izta-c could be a haplology for izta-ya-c. But deleting a whole syllable like /-ya-/ is unlikely and otherwise not clearly attested (the more so if xoco-c is supposed to come from xoco-ya-c or poye-c from poye-ya-c, i. e. with a preceding vowel other than /a/), and let me suggest another one which has a wider impact?: the preterit value is not the basic one for the suffix ?c (/-k/ and its variants (/-ki/ or zero ? the plural /?k-e?/ guarantees its presence in the latter case ? plus /?ka:-/ in derivation). Actually, it seems more reasonable and more fruitful to consider /-k/ with its variants as a participle marker. I hope not to bother you, but I need a few lines to explain this point. 1. The Latin word participium is a translation from Greek metoch?, which first appeared as one of the eight ?parts of speech? in the Grammar of Dionysius Thrax. These words were coined to express the fact that this form shares some properties with both the verb and the noun (adjectives being in the early grammatical theories a subclass of nouns): stating participles as part adjectival and part verbal forms appears a little everywhere in traditional grammars as well as in present-day linguistics. This is precisely what we have in Nahuatl: a sort of mixed or intermediate class of words, which can have more verbal or more adjectival/nominal uses, and be derived from both nominal and verbal stems. 2. The fact that a noun stem like izta- can receive a participial suffix has lots of parallels in many languages, for instance adjectives ending (just like past participles) in ?? in French (e.g. orange > orang? ?which has the color of an orange?, while there is no verb *oranger), or in ?tus in Latin (barba > barbatus ?bearded?, there is no verb *barbo, *barbare), and even in English (bearded is common, but the verb to beard is uncommon and does not mean ?provide with a beard?). 3. Considering as participles all words in /-k/ (and variants) leads to a more comprehensive interpretation, since it accounts for all of their semantic values and uses: as past or future tense (?I wrote? = ?I am having written?; ?I will write? = ?I am having to write? ? which again has parallels in many languages, e.g. in Slavic languages where the ?preterit? in ?l is clearly an verbal adjective, i.e. a participle); and in more typically nominal (i.e.: tenseless) words such as agent nouns and possessive nouns in ??, -hu? and ?y? (?provided with N?, as in beard-ed above). In that case, there is no need for restoring verb stems or derivative verbs everywhere. The fact that inchoative derived verbs in /-ya/ have the same distribution as ?adjectives? in /-k/ like izta-c (or more clearly deverbal ones like tlil-ti-c) is an interesting fact, but is not a hint for deletion of /-ya-/: actually, ?preterits? (if you like) in ?ti-ya-c are attested (sorry, I?m away from my Nahuatl library and can give no real corpus example right away). This leaves the problem of vowel length in cece-c. The first /e/ is clearly short, and first syllable reduplication /CV-/, i.e. with a short vowel, if admittedly much more unusual that /CV:-/ (with long vowel) and /CV'-/ (with saltillo), is attested in a few words. But do you really have corpus or dialectal evidence for the second also short? If so (but I'm waiting for convincing data), I?m ready to apologize for stating it long in my grammar. But whatever the case, it has no real incidence on the participial issue. Best Michel Launey > Message du 06/07/14 01:13 > De : "John Sullivan" > A : "list nahuatl discussion" > Copie ? : > Objet : [Nahuat-l] ome tlahtlaniliztli > > Notlazohtequixpoyohuan, I have two questions, and I suspect I may have already asked one of them. 1. There seem to be two ?nel-? roots: one which produces nelli, ?truth? and all of its derivatives; and another which produces neloa, "to mix s.t." and maneltic, ?for grains, fruits or vegetables that one buys to be of mixed quality (small and large together, fresh and spoiled together, etc.). Are these indeed two separate roots? 2. Words having to do with coldness, seem to have two roots. Cetl, with a short e means ?ice?, but it initial derivative forms cece:ya, ?to become cold? and ce:hui, ?to become cold or extinguished?, have a long e. But cecec, ?cold? which would seem to be the preterite agentive of cec?ya, has a short e. What is going on? John _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From idiez at me.com Mon Jul 7 04:00:26 2014 From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan) Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2014 00:00:26 -0400 Subject: Yale Summer Nahuatl Message-ID: Notequixpoyohuan, As usual I?ve taken too long to get this announcement out. We would love to have visitors to our program at Yale this summer. Come and spend a day or two with us. Sit in on a Modern Nahuatl class (Monday through Friday from 8:30 to 11:30am in Rosenkranz Hall). If you already know some Classical Nahuatl, work a few day with us in the intermediate/advanced Classical Nahuatl session (1-3pm for beginners, 4-6pm for intermediate/advanced). Bring a document or text you would like us to work on. Would you like to give a short talk on your research? We are doing brown-bag lunch talks Monday through Friday between 11:30am and 1pm. July 17, we?ll be doing the corn seed blessing ceremony in the evening and July 18 in the morning, we?ll be planting corn. Come and join us! If you would like to stop by, write to me at idiez at me.com. John John Sullivan, Ph.D. Director, Yale Summer Nahuatl Program Visiting scholar, Faculty of Artes Liberales University of Warsaw; Professor of Nahua language and culture Universidad Aut?noma de Zacatecas; Director, Zacatecas Institute of Teaching and Research in Ethnology Tacuba 152, int. 43 Centro Hist?rico Zacatecas, Zac. 98000 Mexico Work: +52 (492) 925-3415 Home: +52 (492) 768-6048 Mobile (Poland): +48 73-380-9876 Mobile (Mexico): +52 1 (492) 103-0195 Mobile (US): (203) 823-7790 sullivan at al.uw.edu.pl idiez at me.com www.macehualli.org _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From susana at losrancheros.org Tue Jul 15 16:18:31 2014 From: susana at losrancheros.org (Susana Moraleda) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2014 18:18:31 +0200 Subject: omichicahuaztli and the miccacuicatl Message-ID: A pupil of mine has to do a research on the Miccacuicatl and the omichicahuaztli which was used to accompany the song. She is asking me where can she find detailed descriptions of both, but I really do not know what to tell her since this is not my specific field of expertise. Could anyone please advise? Thanks mil, Susana _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From Ian.Mursell at btinternet.com Wed Jul 16 17:56:50 2014 From: Ian.Mursell at btinternet.com (Ian Mursell) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2014 18:56:50 +0100 Subject: omichicahuaztli and the miccacuicatl In-Reply-To: <53C55457.5040606@losrancheros.org> Message-ID: Greetings, Susana. The fullest description I know of of the omichicahuaztli, which contains a brief reference to the miccacuicatl, is a four-page section in Robert Stevenson's classic study 'Music in Aztec & Inca Territory (1968), pp. 56-60. The work is available online, here - http://www.ebookdb.org/reading/G770G81974183F2C7DG62069/Music-In-Aztec--Inc a-Territory Hope this helps. Muchos saludos, Ian Ian Mursell Mexicolore, London www.aztecs.org Now: The Maya AND the Aztecs! On 15/07/2014 17:18, "Susana Moraleda" wrote: >A pupil of mine has to do a research on the Miccacuicatl and the >omichicahuaztli which was used to accompany the song. She is asking me >where can she find detailed descriptions of both, but I really do not >know what to tell her since this is not my specific field of expertise. > Could anyone please advise? > >Thanks mil, >Susana >_______________________________________________ >Nahuatl mailing list >Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org >http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From idiez at me.com Thu Jul 17 15:34:04 2014 From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2014 11:34:04 -0400 Subject: Tercer Encuentro Interdialectal del N=?iso-8859-1?Q?=E1huatl_?=(in New York) Message-ID: Notequixpoyohuan, IDIEZ, the U of Warsaw and Yale University will be putting on our Third Interdialectical Encounter of Nahuatl on Saturday, July 26 at the Mexican Consulate in New York. Activities begin at 9:30am and end at 4:45pm. Everything will be in Nahuatl, but non-native speakers may attend as observers. We only have enough room for 80 people, and native speakers will have preference for participation. Contact me at idiez at me.com or (203) 823-7790 if you would like to RSVP. I am attaching a link below to the flyer with more information. Best, John https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/15911797/3er%20encuentro.pdf _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From campbel at indiana.edu Fri Jul 18 03:05:27 2014 From: campbel at indiana.edu (Campbell, R. Joe) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2014 23:05:27 -0400 Subject: omichicahuaztli and the miccacuicatl In-Reply-To: <53C55457.5040606@losrancheros.org> Message-ID: Dear Susana, I thought that the actual usage of "micca-" and "-chicahuaztli" might be helpful. The material quoted here is from Dibble and Anderson's edition of the Florentine Codex. The original extremely variable spelling has been regularized a la Andrews. "b." numbers refer to Book and "p.", of course, to page, and "f." to my own file structure. Joe immiccahuan** 1. zatepan cecentetl quintlatlaliliaya, quimmamanilia in *immiccahuan*, in oncan totoctoque:. then they set them in place, they laid them as offerings for each of their dead, there where they each lay buried. (b.2 f.10 p.166). micca** 2. auh in yehhuatl *micca* cihuatl ye no cempoalxihuitl oce inen ihuan oc ce quichiuh iconeuh oquichtli:. and this woman who had died lived another twenty-one years, and once more bore a son. (b.8 f.1 p.3). miccaahuexotl** 3. huexotl, ahuexotl, *miccaahuexotl*. willow (b.11 f.11 p.110). miccahua** 4. auh izcatqui ic quitlatlauhtiaya in *miccahua*.. and here is that with which they entreated the mourner: (b.3 f.3 p.42). miccahuati** 5. chocatinemi, tehcoyouhtinemi, iuhquin *miccahuati*, quinchoquilia in otlacotique, in ommicque.. he went weeping, he went howling like one bereaved; he wept for those who had suffered, who had died. (b.2 f.1 p.55). 6. auh inic quitoca, cenca quimahuiztilia, omilhuitl, eilhuitl in *miccahuati*, mitotia, cuica:. and when they buried him, they paid him great honor; two days, three days, they mourned; there was dancing, there was singing. (b.10 f.10 p.174). miccahuatini** 7. in cualli teezyo, *miccahuatini*, tlamacehuani, tlatlatlauhtiani, tlateomatini, teoyo, neconi, temoloni, ilnamiconi.. the good one of noble lineage [is] a mourner for the dead, a doer of penances, a gracious speaker; devout, godly, desirable, wanted, memorable. likely that it is related to praying (b.10 f.2 p.22). miccahuatizque** 8. ic quitemachitia, inic nahuilhuitl ilnamicoz, *miccahuatizque* in ichantlaca,. thus they made it known that during four days there would be remembrances; his household would mourn. (b.4 f.7 p.67). miccamonnantli** 9. monnantli, *miccamonnantli*,. mother-in-law -- mother-in-law of a deceased person (b.10 f.1 p.7). miccamontatli** 10. montatli *miccamontatli*. father-in-law --- father-in-law of a deceased person (b.10 f.1 p.7). miccanacatl** 11. ihuan itoca in *miccanacatl* in opalan, in otlaltic.. and it is the name of the body of the dead which has decayed, which has become dust. (b.11 f.24 p.251). miccatlalli** 12. *miccatlalli*:. miccatlalli (b.11 f.24 p.251). miccatzintli** 13. tenitzintli *miccatzintli*,. [he is] stupid, torpid. (b.10 f.2 p.25). 14. in amo cualli zoquichiuhqui, xolopitli, nextecuili, *miccatzintli*. the bad potter [is] silly, stupid, torpid. (b.10 f.3 p.42). 15. in ahuiyani, ca cihuatlahueliloc, inacayo ic mahuiltiani, nacanamacac, nanacanamacac, ichpochtlahueliloc, ilamatlahueliloc, tlahuanqui, xocomicqui, tequixocomicqui, tequitlahuanqui, iellelacic, tlacamicqui, xochimicqui, tlaaltilli, teomicqui, teopoliuhqui, *miccatzintli*,. the carnal woman is an evil woman who finds pleasure in her body; who sells her body -- repeatedly sells her body; an evil young woman [or] an evil old woman, besotted, drunk -- very drunk, much besotted; dejected, perverse; [like] a sacrificial victim, a bathed slave, a captive; full of affliction, mortal. (b.10 f.3 p.55). miccatzontecomayo** 16. niman imac contequilia, in itlema, no *miccatzontecomayo*, inic tlacuilolli, amacuitlapile.. they placed in his hand his incense ladle, also painted with the skulls of the dead, and with paper pendants [on the handle]. (b.8 f.4 p.62). miccauh** 17. mazo yehhua, momitzmahuilti in macehualli: auh mazo mitztlacaahuilo in *miccauh*, in machcauh: in axcan ca otiteot,. "although the common folk have gladdened thee, and although thy younger brother, thy older brother have put their trust in thee, now thou art deified." (b.6 f.5 p.52). 18. oc ye centlamantli, amo zan *miccauh*, amo zan machcauh: in iyollo, amo zan no iuhquin moyollo,. still another thing: is not the heart of thy younger brother, of thy older brother the same as thy heart? (b.6 f.6 p.73). miccauhtzin** 19. a ca nechhualmihuali, onechhualtopeuh in tlacatl in *miccauhtzin*, in tlatoani in n: in nachca in tlapializtli mitzommochihuililia in n:. verily the lord, thy younger brother, the ruler n., who out there serveth as guard for thee in [the city of] n., sent me, dispatched me here. (b.6 f.15 p.189). 20. ca commitalhuia. tla xoyatiuh: xichualmottili in tlacatl, in *miccauhtzin*: in tlacoti, in tequiti:. "he said: 'o, see the lord my younger brother who serveth, who governeth.'" (b.6 f.15 p.189). miccaxochitl** 21. cequi itoca *miccaxochitl*; ihuan itoca: tlahuancaxochitl,. some are called miccaxochitl, and some are called tlauancaxochitl. (b.11 f.20 p.205). miccaxoxocoyoli** 22. *miccaxoxocoyoli*:. miccaxoxocoyoli (b.11 f.14 p.138). 23. chamahuac iuhquin *miccaxoxocoyoli*, yece huelic, ahuiac, cualli,. it is thick like the miccaxoxocoyoli; however, it is tasty, savory, good. (b.11 f.14 p.139). miccaxoxoyoli** 24. quinamaca eloquilitl, mozoquilitl, tzitziquilitl, tepicquilitl, mahtzalquilitl, tzayanalquilitl, ahuexocaquilitl, chilquilitl, huauhquilitl, huauhquiltzontli, xoxocoyoli, xoxocoyolpapatla, xoxocoyolhuihuilan, cuauhxoxocoyoli, *miccaxoxoyoli*, xoxocoyolcuecuepo ayauhtona, tacanalquilitl, mexixi, popoyauhquilitl, atzihuequilitl, calahuauhquilitl, itzmiquilitl. she sells eloquilitl, mo?oquilitl, tzitziquilitl, tepicquilitl, matzalquilitl, tzayanalquilitl, auexocaquilitl, chilquilitl, amaranth greens, amaranth heads, several varieties of sorrel, ayauhtonan, tacanalquilitl, watercress, popoyauhquilitl, atziuequilitl, calauauhquilitl, a species of purslane. miccaxoxocoyoli; D miccazayoli** 25. *miccazayoli*:. micca?ayolin (b.11 f.10 p.101). 26. inic mitoa *miccazayoli* quil intonal in tomiccahuan:. it is called micca?ayolin because it is said it is the lot of corpses. (b.11 f.11 p.101). momiccaaltia** 27. ic mitoa, *momiccaaltia* inic compopoloa, coniilcahua intlaocol:. thus it was said, the deceased was bathed; and thereby they destroyed and banished their grief. (b.4 f.7 p.67). momiccanenequia** 28. auh in cequintin intlan momaquixtique, intlan cacalacque in ohuelmicque, zan *momiccanenequia*,. and some escaped [the spaniards] among [the dead]; they got in among those really dead, only by feigning to be dead. (b.12 f.4 p.56). momiccatlaza** 29. zan niman yolmiqui, zotlahua, chapantihuetzi, *momiccatlaza*: quinequi, macuelyeh ihiyotl onquiza, macuelyeh conihiyohui, macuelyeh ompolihui, macuelyeh commotlaxili, in imiquiztequiuh.. at once he faltered, he fainted, he fell on the surface, he threw himself down as if dead, he wished that breath might end, that he might endure it, that he might perish, that he might cast off the burden of death. (b.2 f.1 p.53). momiccatlazani** 30. in cualli cuachi micalini milacatzoani, *momiccatlazani* tlacemoliniani, teochpahuazhuiani. the good shorn one [is] a skirmisher, an aggressor, who hurls himself to his death; a vanquisher, a sweeper away [of the foe]. (b.10 f.2 p.23). moxochimiccanenequi** 31. tlaaltilnemi, *moxochimiccanenequi*, aquetztinemi, tlaxocotinemi mihuintitinemi momixihuitinemi, monanacahuitinemi,. she lives like a bathed slave, acts like a sacrificial victim; she goes about with her head high -- rude, drunk, shameless -- eating mushrooms. (b.10 f.3 p.55). nomamiccatzin** 32. ic nichoca ic nitlaocoya ic ninentlamati in niquilnamiqui ac ye in *nomamiccatzin*, ac ye in notenhuacauh.. thus I weep, I am saddened, I am discontent when I reflect upon which one is my sluggard, which one my incoherent one. (b.6 f.7 p.87). omimicca** 33. in iuhqui *omimicca* cocoliztica: oncan acohuetzi, chicahua:. those who are as if faint with sickness are there calmed, strengthened. (b.11 f.19 p.191). ommomiccatlazaya** 34. ihuan miequintin in ommotlacomayahuia yaoc *ommomiccatlazaya*, inca ommomotlaya in inyaohuan,. and many withdrew themselves as enslaved, cast themselves to their deaths in war, threw themselves against their foes. (b.3 f.1 p.7). tlacamiccacihuatl** 35. poxacuatl, poxacuatlacectli, poxacuacihuatl, xochicihuatl, *tlacamiccacihuatl* tlacamicqui. [she is] a sleepy-head, a dried-out sleepy-head, an oversleeping woman; a pervert, a perverted woman, perverse. (b.10 f.3 p.50). tlacamiccapopol** 36. f. ointlahueliltic, in yehhuanti, in *tlacamiccapopol*, in quimoteotique, in tetlaxintli, in cuahuitl tlaxintli, in teixiptla, in tepatillo: in teocuitlatl, in anozo tepoztli, ic tlachiuhtli: in anozo ye oquimoteotique, in manenemi, in patlantinemi, in atlan nemi: in anozo imixiptlahuan, in quinxinque, in cuauhxinque, in tetzotzonque, in anozo in teocuitlapitzque, oquipitzque.. f. unhappy are they, the accursed dead who worshipped as gods carvings of stone, carvings of wood, representations, images, things made of gold or of copper, or who indeed worshipped as gods four-footed animals, creatures which fly, those which live in the waters, or their representations which carpenters or lapidaries carved, or metal-workers molded. (b.1 f.3 p.57). tlacamiccati** 37. ahuilquiza, ahuilhuehueti, teopilti xohxoloti, *tlacamiccati*.. he is reviled; he becomes decrepit, senile, feeble, perverted. (b.10 f.2 p.37). tomicca** 38. ca tilamatque in tontonotza, ca anquimotztiliticate in ixquich *tomicca* ticihuatzitzinti, in ipan tititzin:. for we are the old women who consult among ourselves; you are seeing all of the mortality among us women in our wombs. (b.6 f.13 p.158). 39. cuix ah *tomicca* in ticihuatzitzinti ca toyaoyouh: ca oncan miquiztequiti in cihuacoatl, in quilaztli in tonantzin.. certainly it is our mortality, we who are women, for it is our battle, for at this time our mother, ciuacoatl, quilaztli exacteth the tribute of death. (b.6 f.15 p.180). tomiccahuan** 40. inic mitoa miccazayoli quil intonal in *tomiccahuan*:. it is called micca?ayolin because it is said it is the lot of corpses. (b.11 f.11 p.101). topilmiccayo** 41. zan cuel itla mopan huallaz, *topilmiccayo* techmaitiliz in toteucyo:. soon something will befall thee; our lord will bring about for us the death of our child. (b.6 f.12 p.142). xocomiccayotl** 42. pipillo, coconeyo, ihuincayotl, *xocomiccayotl*:. babyishness, childishness, besottedness, drunkenness (b.6 f.20 p.250). 43. in ihcuac aca huel itla quichihua, anozo huellatoa: amo quitoaya in aquin. in cenca huel onoconchiuh, anozo huel onitlato: zan quitoa. onoconchiuh, anozo onoconito in pipillotl, in coconeyotl, in ihuincayotl, *xocomiccayotl*: anozo in chocholocayotl, in aaccayotl:. when one did something well or spoke well, he did not say: "I did it very well," or, "I spoke well"; he just said: "I have performed, or I have said a thing of babyishness, of childishness, of besottedness, of drunkenness; or of folly, of imperfection. (b.6 f.20 p.250). ayauhchicahuaztica** 1. *ayauhchicahuaztica*,. with mist-bringing rattles (b.2 f.14 p.225). 2. *ayauhchicahuaztica*,. with mist-bringing rattles (b.2 f.14 p.225). ayauhchicahuaztli** 3. ihuan ce cuacuilli conquechpanoa, *ayauhchicahuaztli*:. and an old priest bore upon his shoulders the mist rattle board. (b.2 f.4 p.85). ayochicahuaze** 4. *ayochicahuaze*, cacalaca;. she carried the mist rattle-board, which she sounded. (b.1 f.1 p.22). ayochicahuaztli** 5. quiquechpanotiuh, *ayochicahuaztli*, no itoca nahualcuahuitl,. he went bearing on his shoulders the mist rattle board, also called the sorcerer's staff. (b.2 f.3 p.81). 6. auh in ocontepeuh, niman commaca in *ayochicahuaztli*,. and when he had scattered it, then they gave him the mist rattle board. (b.2 f.4 p.87). 7. ce tlacatl quiquechpanoa, in *ayochicahuaztli*, excan in cacalaca:. a man carried the mist rattle board upon his shoulders; it rattled in three places. (b.2 f.5 p.105). cayochicahuaz** 8. *cayochicahuaz* ilhuitinemi, quicuicatia in calpoleque, icuicacahuan.. with the mist rattle-board they went speaking; the elders of the calpulli, her singers, sang for her. (b.1 f.1 p.22). chicahuaz** 9. ic *chicahuaz* in monacayo,. with it thy body will gain strength. (b.3 f.2 p.18). chicahuazotiuh** 10. ihuan ichicahuaz yetiuh, *chicahuazotiuh*,. and his rattle stick went with him; he went rattling his rattle stick. (b.2 f.1 p.46). chicahuaztica** 11. auh intla ceme anoya, in tezaloani, quinhuihuitequi in xipeme, in *chicahuaztica*,. and if some of the interceptors were taken, the xipeme beat them repeatedly with the rattle sticks. (b.2 f.1 p.50). 12. *chicahuaztica*, motlaquechizca.. on rattle stick upraised (b.2 f.14 p.236). 13. *chicahuaztica* motlaquechizca.. on rattle stick upraised (b.2 f.14 p.236). chicahuaztli** 14. *chicahuaztli* concacalachiliaya. they shook the rattle-boards for him. (b.1 f.2 p.37). 15. *chicahuaztli* in imac icac.. his rattle stick was in his hand. (b.1 f.2 p.40). 16. quitilquetztiuh in *chicahuaztli*, chachalaca, cacalaca.. he went planting the rattle stick forcefully [on the ground]; it rattled; it jingled. (b.2 f.1 p.46). 17. ixpan quihualtilquetza in *chicahuaztli*, quicacalatza: ihuan iyauhtli ic quihualnamiqui, ihuicpa quihualchayahua.. before her he set up the rattle board; he rattled it, and with yauhtli went forth to receive her, and scattered it toward her. (b.2 f.5 p.105). 18. *chicahuaztli* motlaquechizca.. like rattle stick upraised (b.2 f.14 p.236). ichicahuaz** 19. ihuan *ichicahuaz* yetiuh, chicahuazotiuh,. and his rattle stick went with him; he went rattling his rattle stick. (b.2 f.1 p.46). 20. motlaloa mochimalcaltitiuh, quicacalatztiuh *ichicahuaz*. he ran; he went sheltering himself under his shield; he went rattling his rattle board. (b.2 f.2 p.59). 21. in ichimal ihuan in *ichicahuaz* chichiltic,. her shield and her rattle stick were chili-red. (b.2 f.5 p.103). 22. *ichicahuaz* yetiuh. anozo itzpapalotl. anozo quetzalcomitl teocuitlayo in quimama. he had his rattle stick with him, or the obsidian butterfly or quetzal feather cup [device] set with gold, which he carried upon his back. (b.8 f.5 p.84). 23. ihuan *ichicahuaz* cacalacaya, imayauhcampa quitzitzquiaya: in ihcuac tlalpan quitilquetza cacalaca,. and his rattle stick rattled as he grasped it in his right hand; when he thrust it in the ground it rattled. (b.9 f.5 p.69). 24. auh inic tetlattitiaya, mitotiaya, momamamantinemi in ichimal: ihuan quitilquetztinemi in *ichicahuaz*.. and thus [the impersonator] exhibited [the devices]: he danced, he went brandishing his shield; and he went thrusting his rattle board into the ground. (b.9 f.5 p.70). inchicahuaztopil** 25. inchimal immaccuauh yetiuh *inchicahuaztopil*.. they had their shields, their war clubs, and their rattle sticks. (b.8 f.5 p.85). iyauhchicahuaztli** 26. ma moloni *iyauhchicahuaztli* ma huihuixahui in ayachcuahuitl:. may mist rattle boards billow; may cloud rattle boards shake. (b.6 f.4 p.39). omichicahuaztli** 27. *omichicahuaztli*.. the bone rasp. (b.6 f.19 p.239). quichicahuazque** 28. quinnahuatiaya in cuicanime: inic quiyehecozque inic *quichicahuazque* in cuicatl, ihuan teponaztli, olmaitl, huehuetl: ihuan in ixquich macehuallatquitl,. he commanded the singers to rehearse and practise the song and [to prepare] the two-toned drums, the rubber drum hammers, and the ground drums, and all the properties used in the dance. (b.8 f.3 p.56). tichicahuaz** 29. oc cenca timoyollotechihuaz, oc *tichicahuaz*, oc timaciz:. "especially art thou to become courageous, art thou yet to become strong, art thou yet to reach maturity." (b.6 f.10 p.116). 30. oncan o, ic ipan *tichicahuaz* in tlapaliuhcayotl in nenamictiliztli:. then, thereby, thou wilt become strong in the union, in the marriage. (b.6 f.10 p.116). Quoting Susana Moraleda : > A pupil of mine has to do a research on the Miccacuicatl and the > omichicahuaztli which was used to accompany the song. She is asking > me where can she find detailed descriptions of both, but I really do > not know what to tell her since this is not my specific field of > expertise. > Could anyone please advise? > > Thanks mil, > Susana > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From campbel at indiana.edu Fri Jul 18 20:07:05 2014 From: campbel at indiana.edu (Campbell, R. Joe) Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2014 16:07:05 -0400 Subject: omichicahuaztli Message-ID: Susana and everyone, I goofed. A thoughtful friend has pointed out to me that the "chicahuaztli" list included some tokens of the verb "chicahua". Here is the revised list. Hopefully, the "micca-" list remains intact. Joe ayauhchicahuaztica** 1. *ayauhchicahuaztica*,. with mist-bringing rattles (b.2 f.14 p.225). 2. *ayauhchicahuaztica*,. with mist-bringing rattles (b.2 f.14 p.225). ayauhchicahuaztli** 3. ihuan ce cuacuilli conquechpanoa, *ayauhchicahuaztli*:. and an old priest bore upon his shoulders the mist rattle board. (b.2 f.4 p.85). ayochicahuaze** 4. *ayochicahuaze*, cacalaca;. she carried the mist rattle-board, which she sounded. (b.1 f.1 p.22). ayochicahuaztli** 5. quiquechpanotiuh, *ayochicahuaztli*, no itoca nahualcuahuitl,. he went bearing on his shoulders the mist rattle board, also called the sorcerer's staff. (b.2 f.3 p.81). 6. auh in ocontepeuh, niman commaca in *ayochicahuaztli*,. and when he had scattered it, then they gave him the mist rattle board. (b.2 f.4 p.87). 7. ce tlacatl quiquechpanoa, in *ayochicahuaztli*, excan in cacalaca:. a man carried the mist rattle board upon his shoulders; it rattled in three places. (b.2 f.5 p.105). cayochicahuaz** 8. *cayochicahuaz* ilhuitinemi, quicuicatia in calpoleque, icuicacahuan.. with the mist rattle-board they went speaking; the elders of the calpulli, her singers, sang for her. (b.1 f.1 p.22). chicahuaz** NOT CHICAHUAZTLI chicahuazotiuh** 10. ihuan ichicahuaz yetiuh, *chicahuazotiuh*,. and his rattle stick went with him; he went rattling his rattle stick. (b.2 f.1 p.46). chicahuaztica** 11. auh intla ceme anoya, in tezaloani, quinhuihuitequi in xipeme, in *chicahuaztica*,. and if some of the interceptors were taken, the xipeme beat them repeatedly with the rattle sticks. (b.2 f.1 p.50). 12. *chicahuaztica*, motlaquechizca.. on rattle stick upraised (b.2 f.14 p.236). 13. *chicahuaztica* motlaquechizca.. on rattle stick upraised (b.2 f.14 p.236). chicahuaztli** 14. *chicahuaztli* concacalachiliaya. they shook the rattle-boards for him. (b.1 f.2 p.37). 15. *chicahuaztli* in imac icac.. his rattle stick was in his hand. (b.1 f.2 p.40). 16. quitilquetztiuh in *chicahuaztli*, chachalaca, cacalaca.. he went planting the rattle stick forcefully [on the ground]; it rattled; it jingled. (b.2 f.1 p.46). 17. ixpan quihualtilquetza in *chicahuaztli*, quicacalatza: ihuan iyauhtli ic quihualnamiqui, ihuicpa quihualchayahua.. before her he set up the rattle board; he rattled it, and with yauhtli went forth to receive her, and scattered it toward her. (b.2 f.5 p.105). 18. *chicahuaztli* motlaquechizca.. like rattle stick upraised (b.2 f.14 p.236). ichicahuaz** 19. ihuan *ichicahuaz* yetiuh, chicahuazotiuh,. and his rattle stick went with him; he went rattling his rattle stick. (b.2 f.1 p.46). 20. motlaloa mochimalcaltitiuh, quicacalatztiuh *ichicahuaz*. he ran; he went sheltering himself under his shield; he went rattling his rattle board. (b.2 f.2 p.59). 21. in ichimal ihuan in *ichicahuaz* chichiltic,. her shield and her rattle stick were chili-red. (b.2 f.5 p.103). 22. *ichicahuaz* yetiuh. anozo itzpapalotl. anozo quetzalcomitl teocuitlayo in quimama. he had his rattle stick with him, or the obsidian butterfly or quetzal feather cup [device] set with gold, which he carried upon his back. (b.8 f.5 p.84). 23. ihuan *ichicahuaz* cacalacaya, imayauhcampa quitzitzquiaya: in ihcuac tlalpan quitilquetza cacalaca,. and his rattle stick rattled as he grasped it in his right hand; when he thrust it in the ground it rattled. (b.9 f.5 p.69). 24. auh inic tetlattitiaya, mitotiaya, momamamantinemi in ichimal: ihuan quitilquetztinemi in *ichicahuaz*.. and thus [the impersonator] exhibited [the devices]: he danced, he went brandishing his shield; and he went thrusting his rattle board into the ground. (b.9 f.5 p.70). inchicahuaztopil** 25. inchimal immaccuauh yetiuh *inchicahuaztopil*.. they had their shields, their war clubs, and their rattle sticks. (b.8 f.5 p.85). iyauhchicahuaztli** 26. ma moloni *iyauhchicahuaztli* ma huihuixahui in ayachcuahuitl:. may mist rattle boards billow; may cloud rattle boards shake. (b.6 f.4 p.39). omichicahuaztli** 27. *omichicahuaztli*.. the bone rasp. (b.6 f.19 p.239). quichicahuazque** NOT CHICAHUAZTLI tichicahuaz** NOT CHICAHUAZTLI _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From idiez at me.com Mon Jul 28 20:50:17 2014 From: idiez at me.com (John Sullivan) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 16:50:17 -0400 Subject: tenhuia Message-ID: Notequixpoyohuan, I have come across a word that isn?t in Molina or the Florentine. It is in a 1663 will from Chalco Tlalmanalco. The testator says that he sold a piece of land, and then says, ?ahmo aquin quitenhuiz?. I assume this is tenhuia, nic., perhaps meaning ?no one will contest it?, as in ?to apply words to it?. Any ideas? John _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mmccaffe at indiana.edu Mon Jul 28 20:58:31 2014 From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu (Michael McCafferty) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 16:58:31 -0400 Subject: tenhuia In-Reply-To: <449193A3-A437-4FFE-BA52-04BDF1ED3B86@me.com> Message-ID: Quoting John Sullivan : > Notequixpoyohuan, > I have come across a word that isn't in Molina or the Florentine. It > is in a 1663 will from Chalco Tlalmanalco. The testator says that he > sold a piece of land, and then says, "ahmo aquin quitenhuiz". I > assume this is tenhuia, nic., perhaps meaning "no one will contest > it", as in "to apply words to it". Any ideas? > John > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > Sounds like you're on track, John. There is tenhuitequi, which includes the meaning of voice, and tenhuia certainly sounds like your "to apply words to". Best, Michael _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From mlauney at wanadoo.fr Tue Jul 29 09:56:25 2014 From: mlauney at wanadoo.fr (M Launey) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2014 11:56:25 +0200 Subject: tenhuia Message-ID: Dear listeros, Yes, John Sullivan?s interpretation is correct, since ?huia (/-wia/) is a very productive suffix, which apparently can be used freely with any noun stem (and many locatives). The general meaning is ??apply N to??, and is liable to various semantic effects (I?m not sure this is the correct word). For instance (unless otherwise specified, references are from Florentine Codex, pages after Dibble and Anderson?s version, I leave alone vowel length)?: - ??cover with N??, ??apply N on????: (IX,93) c-on-ix-tzauc-huia? ??they cover its surface/face with glue???; (Carochi) ni-n-ez-huia ??I stain myself with blood?? etc. - ??send N to??, ??strike/hit with N???: (XII,22) Quin-tlacatecolo-hui-z-que? ??They will bewitch them?? (litt. "apply/send devils to them")?; (VI,228) o-nech-cuacua-hui-zquia ??(the bull) nearly gored me?? (litt. ??hit me with its horn??), etc. - ??tell N to s.o.???: (XII,5) Ma ti-qu-iztlaca-hui?-tin ??Let?s avoid to tell lies to him?? - ??put N in????: (XI,4) Mo-tlacomol-huia ??(The tapir) gets into the pit?? (litt. ??applies the pit to itself??) - ??carry in N?? (XII,66) C-on-acal-hui?-to? ??They went carrying him in a boat?? They are other specific, more idiosyncratic meanings, like (III,33) O-mo-tezca-hui? ??He looked at himself in the mirror?? (VI,153) An-nech-mo-ma?pil-hui-lia? ??You point your finger at me?? (XII,63) Quin-teocal-hui?-que? ??(The Spaniards) threw (the Mexican warriors) down the temple?? And with locative/adverbial stems?: (VI,234) Ni-c-te-ixpan-huia ??I accuse him publicly??, lit. ??I apply someone?s front to him?? (VI,122) Ti-c-ne?matca-hui-z ??You?ll do it cautiously?? (XII,2) Mo-no?ma?-hui? in tlatlac ??(The temple) burnt of itself??, lit. ??applied itself spontaneously (the fact) that it burned?? (IV,106) Ti-c-o?-op-pa-hui-z-qu? ??We?ll do that in two tries?? (is that correct English??) And with quantifiers, with ?ca- (/-ka:/)?: (II,71) Qui-nauh-ca-huia? ??They join four together to carry it??, litt. ??They apply four to it?? etc. So ??contest?? is a highly plausible translation for a verb which litterally means ??apply one?s lips/words to?? But ten-huitequi is of course a different formation which does not contain ?huia (a compound verb?: huitequi ?strike, hit? with ten-? incorporated). I found an occurrence in FC (XII,2) in impersonal: ne-ten-huitec-o-ya (Dibble and Anderson's translation is: "There was the striking of the palm of the hand against the mouth": this is one of the expressions of fear when the Mexicans saw the bad omens) There are ditransitive uses of a few verbs in ?huia, as far as I know always reflexive. One is tetza(uh)-huia ??take as a bad omen??, litt ??put N as a bad omen to oneself??, e.g. (XI,70) Qui-mo-tetza-huia "He considers that it is a bad omen" . The commonest one is cuitla-huia ??take care of??, which I think (but am not totally sure) is related with cuitla- ??back?? (not ??excrement??), so ni-c-no-cuitla-huia (there are hundreds of occurrences in the corpus) could mean ??I apply my back to??, i.e. ??I carry it/him/her on my back?? > ??I take good care of?? Best M.L. > Message du 29/07/14 01:47 > De : "Michael McCafferty" > A : nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > Copie ? : > Objet : Re: [Nahuat-l] tenhuia > > Quoting John Sullivan : > > > Notequixpoyohuan, > > I have come across a word that isn't in Molina or the Florentine. It > > is in a 1663 will from Chalco Tlalmanalco. The testator says that he > > sold a piece of land, and then says, "ahmo aquin quitenhuiz". I > > assume this is tenhuia, nic., perhaps meaning "no one will contest > > it", as in "to apply words to it". Any ideas? > > John > > _______________________________________________ > > Nahuatl mailing list > > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > > > > Sounds like you're on track, John. There is tenhuitequi, which includes > the meaning of voice, and tenhuia certainly sounds like your "to apply > words to". > > Best, > > Michael > > > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From t.amaya at eninfinitum.com Tue Jul 29 11:58:50 2014 From: t.amaya at eninfinitum.com (Tomas Amaya) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2014 06:58:50 -0500 Subject: tenhuia In-Reply-To: <20140728165831.4gfgdnwuo8wwsw0o@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: Hi Tocnihuan! The word is used in Nahuat with the meaning "talk about somebody/something?; ?remember something /somebody?, etc. Using your example: ahmo aquin quitenhuiz (the piece of land): nobody will talk about it/nobody will remember it/nobody will mention it/nobody will say anything about it. Namechoyoltapalohua! Tomas Amaya > Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 16:58:31 -0400 > From: mmccaffe at indiana.edu > To: nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > Subject: Re: [Nahuat-l] tenhuia > > Quoting John Sullivan : > > > Notequixpoyohuan, > > I have come across a word that isn't in Molina or the Florentine. It > > is in a 1663 will from Chalco Tlalmanalco. The testator says that he > > sold a piece of land, and then says, "ahmo aquin quitenhuiz". I > > assume this is tenhuia, nic., perhaps meaning "no one will contest > > it", as in "to apply words to it". Any ideas? > > John > > _______________________________________________ > > Nahuatl mailing list > > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl > > > > Sounds like you're on track, John. There is tenhuitequi, which includes > the meaning of voice, and tenhuia certainly sounds like your "to apply > words to". > > Best, > > Michael > > > _______________________________________________ > Nahuatl mailing list > Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org > http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl From Norbert.Francis at nau.edu Wed Jul 30 15:56:19 2014 From: Norbert.Francis at nau.edu (Norbert Francis) Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 15:56:19 +0000 Subject: TV Malintzin Message-ID: TV Malintzin presents programs number 20, 21 and 22: (20) Legend of the volcanoes (21) The ghost (22) The freeloader http://www.youtube.com/user/TVMalintzin. On Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/pages/TV-Malintzin/609100105778209 _______________________________________________ Nahuatl mailing list Nahuatl at lists.famsi.org http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl