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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I would add that the two elements- water and
fire/'burning'- while mutually exclusive in nature (as you point out, one
overwhelms the other), they are maintained in the blood of the human body, which
has properties of liquid and heat- I have always sensed that this couplet
therefore has multiple referential loci- principally: 1) opposition
inherent in conflict; and 2) a reference to blood (human liquid counterpart to
water/rain) as the offering prescribed by the 'covenant' to feed the divine
powers- this substance is manifested through warfare, and would thus be
considered an essential component of the hydraulic cycle (see Monaghan
<EM>1995 Covenant</EM>s<EM> with Earth and Rain</EM>. Joanna</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=micc2@COX.NET href="mailto:micc2@COX.NET">micc2</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=NAHUAT-L@LISTS.UMN.EDU
href="mailto:NAHUAT-L@LISTS.UMN.EDU">NAHUAT-L@LISTS.UMN.EDU</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, September 02, 2004 3:04
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Edgar: doublets,
bifrasismos, difrasismos</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>the effects of water and fire have nothing to do with this
disfrasismo <B>except</B> that:<BR><BR>when fire overwhelms water, hot (and
sometimes violent) steam is sent out....<BR>when water overcomes fire, it
causes flames to shoot out as it puts the fire out... and again steam
(and smoke this time) are sent out violently.<BR><BR>it is this great
release of violence and energy that symbolize war, not how water or fire were
used in battle.<BR><BR>mario cuauhtlehcoc<BR><A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated
href="http://www.mexicayotl.org">www.mexicayotl.org</A><BR><BR><BR>ANTHONY
APPLEYARD wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE cite=mid20040902065224.1851.qmail@web86701.mail.ukl.yahoo.com
type="cite"><PRE wrap=""> --- Geoff Davis <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:mixcoatl@GMAIL.COM"><mixcoatl@GMAIL.COM></A> wrote:
</PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE wrap="">... Here are two common examples:
in atl in tlachinolli - "water and fire" - war
in xochitl in cuicatl - "flower and song" - poetry
</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE wrap=""><!---->
Andrews's book translates difrasismos as e.g. "It is a flower and it is
a song".
In "it is water and it is fire" used to mean "it is war", I know that
war all too often involves setting buildings on fire, but where does
water come into it? Does it refer to war canoes? Or does the phrase
refer to water and fire being incompatible "elements"?
Citlalyani
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