<HTML><BODY style="word-wrap: break-word; -khtml-nbsp-mode: space; -khtml-line-break: after-white-space; ">Here goes another question: it's about nouns ending in -tic. The grammars say that the process is:<DIV>1. noun + ti = a class 1 verb which means "to become (like) that noun.</DIV><DIV>2. the class 1 verb goes into the preterite by adding "-c" (singular) and "-queh" (plural), [actually -c-Ø, singular; and -que-h, plural].</DIV><DIV>3. this preterite form is reinterpreted as a noun which is like, or has the quality of the imbedded noun.</DIV><DIV>And if I'm not mistaken, the imbedded noun can only be the combining form of: 1. a regular noun ending in -tl, tli, -li, -in, -Ø; or 2. a preterite agentive (combining form: -ca).</DIV><DIV><SPAN class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </SPAN>The problem is that in modern Huastecan Nahuatl I am seeing many, many -tic forms for which there is no identifiable noun imbed, or at least the native speakers cannot identify them. Most of the time there is a related verb or set of thematic verbs, or a related agentive form by itself, but no existing noun upon which to base the -tic form. I'll give a few examples below, but the question is this. It would seem that the -tic form would need a noun imbed. So does this mean that the missing noun did exist and now is lost, or is it possible that in some cases the -tic has become independent of its original structural requirements and been able to attach to a reduced, but not-agentive verb form?</DIV><DIV>A few examples:</DIV><DIV>1. cuicuilihui, "s.t. is painted"; cuicuiloa. nic., "to paint s.t."; cuicuiltic, "s.t. multicolored".</DIV><DIV>2. canahuiya, "s.t. becomes worn out"; canahua, "to shave s.t. down"; canahuac, "s.t. shaven or thinned out", canactzin, "s.t. thin", canactic, "s.t. thin, shaved down or worn out"</DIV><DIV>3. huihui, "to be crazy"; huihuitic, "a stupid or crazy person".</DIV><DIV>John</DIV><BR><DIV> <SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><FONT face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica">John Sullivan, Ph.D.</FONT></P><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><FONT face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica">Profesor de lengua y cultura nahua</FONT></P><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><FONT face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica">Universidad Autónoma de Zacatecas</FONT></P><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><FONT face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica">Instituto de Docencia e Investigación Etnológica de Zacatecas, A.C.</FONT></P><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><FONT face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica">Tacuba 152, int. 47</FONT></P><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><FONT face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica">Centro Histórico</FONT></P><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><FONT face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica">Zacatecas, Zac. 98000</FONT></P><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><FONT face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica">México</FONT></P><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><FONT face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica">Oficina: +52 (492) 925-3415</FONT></P><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><FONT face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica">Fax: +52 (492) 925-3416</FONT></P><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><FONT face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica">Domicilio: +52 (492) 768-6048</FONT></P><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><FONT face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica">Celular: +52 (492) 118-0854</FONT></P><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><FONT face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica"><A href="mailto:idiez@mac.com">idiez@mac.com</A></FONT></P><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px">www.macehualli.org</P><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px">www.idiez.org.mx<FONT face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica"><BR class="Apple-interchange-newline"><SPAN></SPAN><SPAN></SPAN></FONT></P></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></DIV></BODY></HTML>