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Forgive my error of semantics, I should have said:
<pre wrap="">"Please let me know your references/sources"
cuix.......Somethings are incomprehensible because we attach our own values to them, and they do not fit what is out there.
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<br>
Mario<br>
<br>
Owen Thomas wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:1dde854d0904171206vbbdd9f0t5892959710bb956f@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">PEDRO the scholar; and those who read his comments
Proof by references is a very European concept. I prefer to follow the
concept of scholarly study of all sources and also follow the Nahuatl
way of accepting all as equal. Indepemdent, dependent on one other,
dependent on three, or all equal in Mexico. I respect all attempts to
understand the incomprehensible.
On 4/17/09, micc2 <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:micc2@cox.net"><micc2@cox.net></a> wrote:
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<pre wrap="">Dear Pedro,
While it would seem that this analysis could be valid, there are
examples of where the numerical is not treated to the loss of the final
part:
nahuiollin or nahui ollin.
perhaps out of convention or style the name ome teotl became one word?
What do you have as proof of ....."This conception of this trinity an[d]
the union of it, was shared by all the people of Mesoamerica"?
I have seen one, two, four, eight, 13, 52, etc., spoken of as being
significant often, but I cannot remember any pre-conquest allusions to
a "trinity"
Duality (twins, life, death...) yes.... trinity... I have not seen it
Please let me know your citations.
If there are post-conquest allusions to a trinity, I believe that that
would be a negotiation of theology by the indigenous people to
conform their world view to a Christian view imposed by the Spanish.
When we look at post-conquest writings (especially 1530-1690) we need to
look for resilient negotiation and bicultural meaning when indigenous
informants speak of the divine.
respectfully,
Mario E. Aguilar, PhD
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.mexicayotl.org">www.mexicayotl.org</a>
Pedro de Eguiluz wrote:
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<pre wrap="">Dear List
Ometeotl is usually translated as "Divine two", but in Nawatl when we
join the word Ome "two" to another word (root) it looses the final
"e", for example two stones is Ontetl.
With Yei "three" happens similar when we join it to another word it
looses the final "i" and when we put it in the middle of two words it
looses also the "Y". So in Ometeotl we have Om "two", e "three" and
teotl "divine". So the Ometeotl is Divine Two Three.
In the Codex Vatican 3738, page 17, we can read "...the first cause,
called by another name Ometekutli, that is the same as Lord of Three
dignities"
This conception of this trinity an the union of it, was shared by all
the people of Mesoamerica. Duality as we know it, good-bad arrived
with Cortez and his army. This good-bad conception is very poor and
destructive, compared to Ometeotl "Divine uni dual trinity", a higher
conception that was not understood by the Europeans, even now very few
people in the world undestand it, if any.
Regards
Pedro
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