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Dear David and Fritz,<BR>
<BR>
Maybe I should have said this in the previous message, but yes the bird on the left is the quecholli. The image of the double headed eagle is used here to express the identification of Cuauhquechollan with the Spanish Crown and, at the same, represent their toponym Cuauh(tli)-quecholl(i)-an. Of all people they should know what the quecholli looked like. <BR>
Still, it's a beautiful example of the creation of a colonial indigenous world. Also note the sword and the macana, and of course the crown. In other places of the lienzo conquest is represented as a European sword (instead of an arrow) perforating a toponymic glyph, and the Cuauhquecholteca are depicted with a white skin contrary to their indigenous oponents. I highly recommend reading Florine Asselbergs' study of this lienzo.<BR>
<BR>
Un fuerte abrazo,<BR>
<BR>
Michel<BR> <BR>> From: dcwright@prodigy.net.mx<BR>> To: oudyk@hotmail.com; schwallr@potsdam.edu<BR>> CC: nahuatl@lists.famsi.org<BR>> Subject: RE: [Nahuat-l] hoary spoonbill<BR>> Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 13:48:27 -0600<BR>> <BR>> Hi, Michel. Thanks for the input. If the bird on the left in your image is a<BR>> quecholli, it looks a lot more like the xiuhquecholli (Dibble and Anderson<BR>> suggest the subspecies Momotus lessoni goldmani) than the tlauhquechol/<BR>> teoquechol, which is the bird that has been identified as the roseate<BR>> spoonbill (Ajaia ajaja), and by some as the flamingo (Phoenicopterus ruber),<BR>> although it looks for now like the flamingo identification is due to the<BR>> fact that people were just calling spoonbills “flamingos” because of the<BR>> similarities between the two species. You can see native renderings of (and<BR>> read about) both the tlauhquechol/teoquechol and the xiuhquechol in the<BR>> Florentine Codex, book 11, chapter 2, paragraph 1. Torquemada specifically<BR>> relates the 20-day ritual period quecholli to the tlauhquechol/teoquechol.<BR>> <BR>> After reading all of the very helpful comments provided by several listeros,<BR>> I decided to translate the ritual period quecholli as “La cuchareta<BR>> rosada/el proyectil” in my work in progress, adding the following footnote:<BR>> <BR>> Las fuentes novohispanas están divididas en cuanto a la traducción de la<BR>> palabra quecholli. Para Torquemada (1975-1983: III, 403, 426, 427 [libro 10,<BR>> capítulos 26, 35]), el nombre de este mes se relaciona con el teoquechol o<BR>> tlauhquechol, un ave acuático de plumas valiosas que puede ser identificada<BR>> con un grado razonable de certeza con la cucharada rosada (Ajaia ajaja).<BR>> Esta ave es llamada “flamenca” por Torquemada, pero las descripciones de<BR>> este autor y de Sahagún (1979: III, 20v, 21r [libro 11, capítulo 2, párrafo<BR>> 1]) dejan en claro que no se trata del ave que ahora llamamos “flamingo”<BR>> (Phoenicopterus ruber), sino de la cucharada rosada, especialmente porque<BR>> ambos autores hacen hincapié en el hecho de que esta ave tiene un pico<BR>> parecido al del pato. Otros autores novohispanos traducen quecholli como<BR>> algún tipo de proyectil, sea una flecha tirada con el arco, un dardo lanzado<BR>> con el atlatl o lanzadardos, o una especia de lanza (Anders/Jansen<BR>> [editores], 1996a: 41v; Doesburg/Carrera [editores], 1996: 100v; Durán,<BR>> 1967: i, 281 [libro de los ritos, capítulo 17]; Tovar, 1951: lám. 11).<BR>> <BR>> Any comments on this are more than welcome.<BR>> <BR>> Here are the references, in case anyone wants to looks this stuff up.<BR>> <BR>> Anders, Ferdinand; Jansen, Maarten E. R. G. N. (editores)<BR>> 1996a Códice Magliabechi, facsímil del ms., Graz/México, Akademische<BR>> Druck-und Verlagsanstalt/Fondo de Cultura Económica.<BR>> <BR>> Doesburg, Geert Bastiaan van; Carrera González, Florencio (editores)<BR>> 1996 Códice Ixtlilxochitl, facsímil del ms., Graz/México, Akademische<BR>> Druck-und Verlagsanstalt/Fondo de Cultura Económica.<BR>> <BR>> Durán, Diego<BR>> 1967 Historia de las Indias de Nueva España e islas de tierra firme, 2<BR>> vols., Ángel María Garibay Kintana, editor, México, Editorial Porrúa.<BR>> <BR>> Sahagún, Bernardino de<BR>> 1974-1982 Florentine codex, general history of the things of<BR>> New Spain, 1a. ed./2a. ed./reimpresión, 13 partes, Arthur J. O. Anderson y<BR>> Charles E. Dibble, editores y traductores, Santa Fe/Salt Lake City, The<BR>> School of American Research/The University of Utah.<BR>> 1979 Códice florentino, facsímil del ms., 3 vols., México, Secretaría de<BR>> Gobernación.<BR>> <BR>> Torquemada, Juan de<BR>> 1975-1983 Monarquía indiana, de los veinte y un libros rituales y monarquía<BR>> indiana, con el origen y guerras de los indios occidentales, de sus<BR>> poblazones, descubrimiento, conquista, conversión y otras cosas maravillosas<BR>> de la mesma tierra, 7 vols., Miguel León-Portilla, coordinador, México,<BR>> Instituto de Investigaciones Históricas, Universidad Nacional Autónoma de<BR>> México.<BR>> <BR>> Tovar, Juan de<BR>> 1951 The Tovar calendar, an illustrated Mexican manuscript ca. 1585,<BR>> reproduced with a commentary and handlist of sources on the Mexican 365-day<BR>> year (Memoirs of the Connecticut Academy of Arts and Sciences, vol. 11),<BR>> George Kubler y Charles Gibson, editores, New Haven, Connecticut Academy of<BR>> Arts and Sciences.<BR>> <BR>> ***********************************************************<BR>> <BR>> De: Michel Oudijk [mailto:oudyk@hotmail.com] <BR>> Enviado el: lunes, 07 de diciembre de 2009 11:18 p.m.<BR>> Para: David Wright; schwallr@potsdam.edu<BR>> CC: nahuatl@lists.famsi.org<BR>> Asunto: RE: [Nahuat-l] hoary spoonbill<BR>> <BR>> Dear friends,<BR>> <BR>> I don't know much about birds but according to the people from<BR>> Quauhquechollan the Quechollin looks like they painted it in their lienzo<BR>> (see the attached photo or Florine Asselbergs' book about the lienzo). Maybe<BR>> one of you bird watchers can identified it this way. Doesn't look like a<BR>> flamenco to me though.<BR>> <BR>> Abrazo,<BR>> <BR>> Michel<BR>> <BR>> De: Michel Oudijk [mailto:oudyk@hotmail.com] <BR>> Enviado el: lunes, 07 de diciembre de 2009 11:18 p.m.<BR>> Para: David Wright; schwallr@potsdam.edu<BR>> CC: nahuatl@lists.famsi.org<BR>> Asunto: RE: [Nahuat-l] hoary spoonbill<BR>> <BR>> Dear friends,<BR>> <BR>> I don't know much about birds but according to the people from<BR>> Quauhquechollan the Quechollin looks like they painted it in their lienzo<BR>> (see the attached photo or Florine Asselbergs' book about the lienzo). Maybe<BR>> one of you bird watchers can identified it this way. Doesn't look like a<BR>> flamenco to me though.<BR>> <BR>> Abrazo,<BR>> <BR>> Michel<BR>> <BR> <br /><hr />New Windows 7: Simplify what you do everyday. <a href='http://windows.microsoft.com/shop' target='_new'>Find the right PC for you.</a></body>
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