<html><head><base href="x-msg://2/"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Baert,<div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>All of your examples except "palehuia" are class 2 verbs ending in hu- /w/ + vowel. These verbs lose the final vowel in the preterite. When the hu- becomes word-final (and even when it is syllable-final inside the word) it becomes voiceless and is written -uh. So we are not talking about a saltillo, rather the change from a voiced /w/ to a voiceless /w/. </div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>"palehuia" is a class 3 verb, and when it goes to the preterite, the final vowel is lost and a saltillo (h) appears.</div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>In modern Huastecan Nahuatl the "h" and the "-uh" sound similar, but there is a difference. And while an "h" causes a preceding long vowel to shorten, the "-uh" does not.</div><div>John</div><div><br><div><div>On Jan 18, 2010, at 1:59 PM, <a href="mailto:lahunik.62@skynet.be">lahunik.62@skynet.be</a> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div lang="NL" link="#FF8000" vlink="yellow"><div class="Section1"><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Tahoma; "><i><font size="2" color="blue" face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt; color: blue; font-style: italic; ">Dear one's,</span></font></i></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Tahoma; "><i><font size="2" color="blue" face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt; color: blue; font-style: italic; ">I fully understand the argumentation of Lady Frances Karttunen contrasting open and closed syllables and the use of the –h as the<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></font></i><i><font color="blue"><span lang="EN-US" style="color: blue; font-style: italic; ">saltillo</span></font></i><i><font color="blue"><span lang="EN-US" style="color: blue; font-style: italic; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>and as consonant, thanks anyway.</span></font></i></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Tahoma; "><i><font size="2" color="blue" face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt; color: blue; font-style: italic; ">Like you said the<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></font></i><i><font color="blue"><span lang="EN-US" style="color: blue; font-style: italic; ">saltillo</span></font></i><i><font color="blue"><span lang="EN-US" style="color: blue; font-style: italic; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>is more than a morphogram, a sign to close a syllable,it is a phonogram too with a special sound.</span></font></i></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Tahoma; "><i><font size="2" color="blue" face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt; color: blue; font-style: italic; ">But what about the following verbs and their Base 2 (verbal stem of the preteritum, el pretirito):</span></font></i></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Tahoma; "><i><font size="2" color="blue" face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt; color: blue; font-style: italic; ">Ìcihui, ìcihui > iciuh.</span></font></i></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Tahoma; "><i><font size="2" color="blue" face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt; color: blue; font-style: italic; ">Cōhua, cōhua > cōuh.</span></font></i></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Tahoma; "><i><font size="2" color="blue" face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt; color: blue; font-style: italic; ">Palēhuia, palēhuia > palēhuih.</span></font></i></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Tahoma; "><i><font size="2" color="blue" face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt; color: blue; font-style: italic; ">Pōhua, pōhua > pōuh.</span></font></i></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Tahoma; "><i><font size="2" color="blue" face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt; color: blue; font-style: italic; ">Chīhua, chīhua >chiuh.</span></font></i></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Tahoma; "><i><font size="2" color="blue" face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt; color: blue; font-style: italic; ">Ēhua, ēhua > ēuh.</span></font></i></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Tahoma; "><i><font size="2" color="blue" face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt; color: blue; font-style: italic; ">Cāhua, cāhua > cāuh.</span></font></i></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Tahoma; "><i><font size="2" color="blue" face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt; color: blue; font-style: italic; ">These are all verbs by which the end letters change of place in Base 2.</span></font></i></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Tahoma; "><i><font size="2" color="blue" face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt; color: blue; font-style: italic; ">The ending –h, is that a<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></font></i><i><font color="blue"><span lang="EN-US" style="color: blue; font-style: italic; ">saltillo</span></font></i><i><font color="blue"><span lang="EN-US" style="color: blue; font-style: italic; ">, or is it just the letter –h?</span></font></i></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Tahoma; "><i><font size="2" color="blue" face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt; color: blue; font-style: italic; ">And if it is just a letter –h, what is than the difference between the two?</span></font></i></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Tahoma; "><i><font size="2" color="blue" face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt; color: blue; font-style: italic; ">Or is there no difference?</span></font></i></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Tahoma; "><i><font size="2" color="blue" face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt; color: blue; font-style: italic; ">Lahun Ik 62</span></font></i></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Tahoma; "><i><font size="2" color="blue" face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt; color: blue; font-style: italic; ">Baert Georges</span></font></i></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Tahoma; "><i><font size="2" color="blue" face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt; color: blue; font-style: italic; ">Flanders</span></font></i><i><font color="blue"><span lang="EN-US" style="color: blue; font-style: italic; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Fields.</span></font></i></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Tahoma; "><i><font size="2" color="blue" face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt; color: blue; font-style: italic; ">PS. My excuses to the moderator.</span></font></i></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Tahoma; "><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt; "> </span></font></p><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Tahoma; "><i><font size="2" color="blue" face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt; color: blue; font-style: italic; "> </span></font></i></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Tahoma; "><i><font size="2" color="blue" face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt; color: blue; font-style: italic; "> </span></font></i></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Tahoma; "><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt; "> </span></font></p></div>_______________________________________________<br>Nahuatl mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Nahuatl@lists.famsi.org" style="color: rgb(255, 128, 0); text-decoration: underline; ">Nahuatl@lists.famsi.org</a><br><a href="http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl" style="color: rgb(255, 128, 0); text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.famsi.org/mailman/listinfo/nahuatl</a><br></div></span></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>