Dear Dr. Bassett<br><br>Mesoamerican languages do not generally have a distinction between blue and green as the one found in european languages - this is also true for Nahuatl - and matlalin could probably describe any dark hue in the blue/green end of the specter. An excellent source to color references in Nahuatl and other Mesoamerican langauges is Robert E MacLaury's Cdolor and COgnition in Mesoamerica, therw you will be able to see schematic representations of the basic color categories of several modern dialects of Nahuatl - most of which have a single basic category covering both green and blue colors.<br>
<br>Best regards<br><br>Magnus Pharao Hansen<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 1 June 2010 19:00, <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:nahuatl-request@lists.famsi.org">nahuatl-request@lists.famsi.org</a>></span> wrote:<br>
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<br>Today's Topics:<br>
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1. matlalin - blue, green, blue-green? (Molly Bassett)<br>
<br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: Molly Bassett <<a href="mailto:mbassett@gsu.edu">mbassett@gsu.edu</a>><br>To: "Nahuat-l (messages)" <<a href="mailto:nahuatl@lists.famsi.org">nahuatl@lists.famsi.org</a>><br>
Date: Mon, 31 May 2010 14:01:04 -0400<br>Subject: [Nahuat-l] matlalin - blue, green, blue-green?<br><div style="word-wrap: break-word;"><font face="'Helvetica Neue'" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12px;">Hi, all.</span></font><div>
<font face="'Helvetica Neue'" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12px;"><br></span></font></div><div><font face="'Helvetica Neue'" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12px;">I'm working on a piece dealing with the significance of colors in precontact Central Mexican religious contexts, and I have a question about the meaning of ma:tla:lin.</span></font></div>
<div><font face="'Helvetica Neue'"><br></font></div><div><span style="font-family: 'Helvetica Neue'; font-size: 12px;">Frances Karttunen follows Molina in defining matlalin as “the color dark green”: “This is attested in Z in matlalzahuatl (literally ‘green pox’) and possibly in Matlalpan, although the sense of the latter would be obcure from this gloss, which appears to have something to do with lowness of sature. Conceivably it is derived instead from tlalpan ‘on the ground'" (139).</span></div>
<div><font face="'Helvetica Neue'"><br></font></div><div><span style="font-family: 'Helvetica Neue'; font-size: 12px;">But Dibble & Anderson translate matlalin as “blue” in the <i>Florentine</i>, which notes that "its name comes from nowhere. It is the blossom of an herb, a blossom. This matlalin is blue and a little herb-green. It is very sound, firm, good, of good appearance, fresh green. It is fresh green, very resh green. . . . / acan quizqui in itoca, xihuitl ixochyo, xochitl: inin matlali texotic, ihuan achi quiltic, cenca ixtlapalhui, ixchicactic, cualli, cualnezqui, celic, celic, celpatic. . . ." (11: 240). </span></div>
<div><font face="'Helvetica Neue'"><br></font></div><div><font face="'Helvetica Neue'">The Badianus Ms. cites matlalxochitl (presumably the xochitl referred to in the Florentine?) as an element in a treatment for "heat" in the eyes (pl. 14, p. 218). The footnote for matlalxochitl glosses the term as "blue flower" identifies the plant as "the dayflower, Commelina, of which a number of species are found on the Mexican plateau. A native variant Nahuatl name for it is matlaliztic. Hernández refers to several varieties of matlalxochitl (pp. 383-4), but none of the illustrations resembles Commelina; thus the name must have been applied to several flowers of blue color" (219-20).</font></div>
<div><font face="'Helvetica Neue'"><br></font></div><div><font face="'Helvetica Neue'">So, two of these three sources relate matlalin to blue; I haven't followed up on Hernández yet. Are there other places I should look for more information on matlalin as blue or green? I realize that blue-green functioned as a range or spectrum in precontact Mesoamerica, but the discrepancy among these sources has piqued my curiosity.</font></div>
<div><font face="'Helvetica Neue'"><br></font></div><div><font face="'Helvetica Neue'">Thanks,</font></div><div><font face="'Helvetica Neue'">Molly</font></div><div><font face="'Helvetica Neue'" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12px;"><br>
</span></font><div> <div style="word-wrap: break-word;"><span style="border-collapse: separate; font-variant: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;"><div style="word-wrap: break-word;">
<div><div><div><font face="'Helvetica Neue'" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12px;">----------------------------------------------------------</span></font></div><div><font face="'Helvetica Neue'" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12px;">Molly H. Bassett</span></font></div>
<div><font face="'Helvetica Neue'" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12px;">Assistant Professor, Mesoamerican Religions and Indigenous Traditions</span></font></div><div><font face="'Helvetica Neue'" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12px;">Department of Religious Studies</span></font></div>
<div><div><font face="'Helvetica Neue'" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12px;">Georgia State University</span></font></div><div><font face="'Helvetica Neue'" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12px;">1137 34 Peachtree Street NW</span></font></div>
<div><font face="'Helvetica Neue'" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12px;">Atlanta, GA 30302</span></font></div></div></div></div></div></span></div><font face="'Helvetica Neue'" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12px;"> </span></font></div>
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