Listeros:<br><div class="gmail_quote"><br>I think I can get a decent derivation of a root maxa to maxtlatl, but it requires a weird, although not impossible derivation, and it doesn't explain how it would have come to mean fox.<br>
<br>*maxa "to split, bifucate" (hypothetical protonahuatl root)<br><br>*maxa-ta "something bifurcated" (ta is the original form of the the absolutive suffix) <br>> apocope *(described by Dakin and Canger) *max-ta <br>
> (whorf's law) ma:xtla <br>> then for some reason the word is reinterpreted as a root and a new absolutive suffix is attached so we get *maxtlatla<br>> then the last vowel is dropped and we get maxtla-tl "something split" I think this ought to be the etymology for loincloth at that at least has a common meaning with bifurcate as it covers our own anatomical bifurcation.<br>
<br>maxactli "cave/female genital opening" would come from maxakata through the same process. the ka of course being the perfective -ka-. <br><br>This model requires some kind of explanation of why "something split" comes to mean "loincloth" and "fox". It also doesn't cause tepemaxtla to mean mountain splitter, since the tepe could only have been prefxed after the word maxtlatl had come to mean fox rather than "something split". <br>
<br>Also I am unsure about vowel length on the first ma syllable - I know loincloth has length, but I am currently unsure of the others, do maxalihui and maxactli have vowel length in classical? (I am away from my dictionaries)<br>
<br><br>best<br><font color="#888888"><br>Magnus</font><div><div></div><div class="h5"><br><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 16 February 2011 14:28, Michael McCafferty <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:mmccaffe@indiana.edu" target="_blank">mmccaffe@indiana.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">Well, his opus magnus is almost in the can. I imagine that the disks will be out there at Amazon in the fairly near future. I've been pushing him to do it sooner than later, but he IS getting to the point where he sees the work's publication happening pretty soon.<br>
<br>
I don't know if you know, and I know I don't know the whole extent of it, but he's taken the oldest dictionaries, and the Florentine Codex, etc. and put it all into machine-readable form and has analyzed, oh, I imagine 96% of the words, breaking them down into their component morphemes, explaining their derivations, and it comes with various ways of looking at all the material. It's actually unbelievable. Here's a sample of a couple of lines of one of the files. I'll attach it. Somewhere I have in my email an email from him telling me exactly what he has done. The above description is sketchy, it's humongous, that's one thing. All the coding is of course explained in the introduction.<div>
<div></div><div><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Quoting Magnus Pharao Hansen <<a href="mailto:magnuspharao@gmail.com" target="_blank">magnuspharao@gmail.com</a>>:<br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
True, I've often wondered why he never published more about it than that<br>
IJAL article, he must have a lot of wonderful notes lying around. I keep<br>
working on the Hueyapan dialect btw. I certainly also respect him as an<br>
etymologist, if he comes up with something I know it will be solid. Few<br>
people have as good an overview of the Nahuatl lexicon as he.<br>
<br>
<br>
On 16 February 2011 14:13, Michael McCafferty <<a href="mailto:mmccaffe@indiana.edu" target="_blank">mmccaffe@indiana.edu</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
When your name comes up, Joe always says, "He's worked in the Hueyapan<br>
dialect."<br>
He respects that a lot.<br>
<br>
And, you know, that's where he started.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Quoting Magnus Pharao Hansen <<a href="mailto:magnuspharao@gmail.com" target="_blank">magnuspharao@gmail.com</a>>:<br>
<br>
It might be viewed as an insult against those who still practice that kind<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
of etymology, but I have no reason to count you among those (the you in my<br>
previous clause was meant as a plural you inclduing Professor Campbell). I<br>
am glad you weren't offended, and sorry if I have been overly<br>
argumentative<br>
or abrasive.<br>
<br>
best<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 16 February 2011 14:00, Michael McCafferty <<a href="mailto:mmccaffe@indiana.edu" target="_blank">mmccaffe@indiana.edu</a>><br>
wrote:<br>
<br>
Quoting Magnus Pharao Hansen <<a href="mailto:magnuspharao@gmail.com" target="_blank">magnuspharao@gmail.com</a>>:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<br>
I didn't mean to insult you with that, but both Roberto Romero and<br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
Professor<br>
Grigsby's proposals were completely without basis in data, motivated<br>
only<br>
by<br>
chance resemblance between roots. I called them out on that and<br>
encouraged<br>
others to find some actual supprtive arguments.<br>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
If you can construct a<br>
<br>
viable etymology from having to do with splitting then that is great.<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
But<br>
<br>
seriously, making etymology through simple resemblance is not a viable<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
form<br>
of practicing philology any more.<br>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
Well, this is what one could term an insult, all the Whorfian blather.<br>
<br>
But I don't take it as such.<br>
<br>
I understand the views on the problem. I see them.<br>
<br>
So, it's no problem.<br>
<br>
I don't know how long it'll take Joe to do the work, but he told me he's<br>
gathering data. /:-)<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
--<br>
Magnus Pharao Hansen<br>
Graduate student<br>
Department of Anthropology<br>
<br>
Brown University<br>
128 Hope St.<br>
Providence, RI 02906<br>
<br>
*<a href="mailto:magnus_pharao_hansen@brown.edu" target="_blank">magnus_pharao_hansen@brown.edu</a>*<br>
US: 001 401 651 8413<br>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
Magnus Pharao Hansen<br>
Graduate student<br>
Department of Anthropology<br>
<br>
Brown University<br>
128 Hope St.<br>
Providence, RI 02906<br>
<br>
*<a href="mailto:magnus_pharao_hansen@brown.edu" target="_blank">magnus_pharao_hansen@brown.edu</a>*<br>
US: 001 401 651 8413<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br></div></div>-- <br><div><div></div><div class="h5">Magnus Pharao Hansen<br><span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">Graduate student<br>Department of Anthropology<br>
</span><br style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">Brown University </span><br style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">128 Hope St.</span><br style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">Providence, RI 02906</span><br style="color: rgb(153, 153, 153);"><br><u><a href="mailto:magnus_pharao_hansen@brown.edu" target="_blank">magnus_pharao_hansen@brown.edu</a></u><br>
US: 001 401 651 8413<br>
<br>
</div></div></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Magnus Pharao Hansen<br><span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">Graduate student<br>Department of Anthropology<br></span><br style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">Brown University </span><br style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">128 Hope St.</span><br style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">Providence, RI 02906</span><br style="color: rgb(153, 153, 153);"><br><u><a href="mailto:magnus_pharao_hansen@brown.edu" target="_blank">magnus_pharao_hansen@brown.edu</a></u><br>
US: 001 401 651 8413<br><br>