From HD Video camera to MPEG-4 on a Mac

Thu Jun 2 00:54:11 UTC 2011

Hi

I've been doing some research into how to work with H264 files that come off my Canon DSLR. FCP doesn't like this format, so transcoding is required. Here's a way I've found to make quite good, smallish files, also a link to a youtube clip that explains this workflow in more detail.

>From Canon h264 > HD suitable for youtube etc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfcJGUWh0nQ&feature=related

h264 > MPEG streamclip
List/Batchlist
Choose Apple DVC Pro HD 720 p60
FCP > Sequence DVCPro HD720p60
?	Compressor
?	export as QT H264

To get the right file size

in Compressor
look at inspector to see the file size
Encoder tab > settings > data rate
Enter data rate, check file size in inspector (need to play around with the data rate to get the right file size)

Based on this workflow you can adapt to different outputs, eg MPEG 2 or whatever you're after. You can also choose different DVC Pro settings.

Alternatively

use log and transfer in FCP to transcode H264 files, straight from card (ie use card reader)
To Apple Intermediate Codec, or Prores - either is good for editing, Prores is better for progressive codecs.

MC

-----Original Message-----
From: r-n-l-d at unimelb.edu.au on behalf of Felicity Meakins
Sent: Tue 31/05/2011 07:59
To: #HIRAM RANDALL RING#; r-n-l-d
Subject: Re: From HD Video camera to MPEG-4 on a Mac

Hmm complicated! My procedure (when you originally asked about AIC files) only involves using Final Cut Pro and you don't lose the sound!

On 30/05/11 10:25 PM, "#HIRAM RANDALL RING#" <HIRAM1 at e.ntu.edu.sg> wrote:

Hi Felicity,

  I did indeed intend that for the whole list, thanks for that, and for your reply. Below is are details of the process I've been going through, but skip to the end for the gist...

  Anthony Jukes's reply to Randy's email was helpful as well. Following the procedure outlined at the webpage he links to, I found that the re-wrapping is nearly instantaneous and the resulting .M4V file can easily be trimmed and converted to an .MP4 in MPEG Streamclip (which is also free). Are there settings in Streamclip that you would recommend for exporting M4Vs to MP4?

  I also discovered that once you set the In and Out points, instead of 'Exporting to MP4', you can also do a 'Save As' function in Streamclip that will save the trimmed file as an MP4 file, which is much quicker than the export function and seems to preserve the video quality of the M4V. The drawback is that the resulting MP4 has no sound - does anyone know why? Are there some settings or plugins I am missing?

  The other issue is that the M4V file created by re-wrapping via Anthony's link doesn't seem to import into Final Cut for editing, but that the MP4 saved/exported via Streamclip imports in FC and is perfectly editable (albeit without sound). The MP4 is also high-quality yet retains the small file size of the MTS file. It seems then that if I could figure out how to retain sound in the M4V-to-MP4 Save-As-conversion via Streamclip we may have a simple, quick, free means of converting MTS files to MP4s so that the same files could both be archived and edited to DVDs for the language community... provided that H.264 is indeed the codec used by Streamclip for conversion/saving.

  I did discover that Handbrake converts the re-wrapped M4V files perfectly fine, and with the batch conversion feature this is quite promising. I also learned that if I use the MPEG-4 (Ffmpeg) conversion setting in Handbrake (with quality on 3 or so), I can open and edit the resulting MP4 in Streamclip, and then use the Save-As function. This preserves the audio and the resulting file is not only nearly identical in quality and size to the original M4V, but can be imported directly into Final Cut for editing. However, if I use the H.264 conversion setting in Handbrake I cannot open the imported files in Final Cut. Does anyone know why this is?

The Gist is: the following workflow seems to preserve both the high quality and small size of MTS files for editing in Final Cut.

1. Re-wrap MTS files to M4V following Anthony's link: http://vimeo.com/groups/gh1/forumthread:232846 (nearly instantaneous)
2. Convert M4V files to MP4 using batch processing in Handbrake with the MPEG-4/Ffmpeg conversion setting. (8-15 minutes for 8-10 minutes of footage)
3. Open the MP4 files in MPEG Streamclip and 'Save As' after trimming appropriately. (nearly instantaneous)

The resulting files are nearly identical in both size (small) and quality (high) to the original MTS files, and also have the added benefit of being editable in Final Cut, just like AIC files. However, are they encoded as H264? This is one point I'm not clear on. What's the difference between MPEG4 and H264?

  Also, has anyone else tried opening M4V files in Streamclip and using the 'Save As' function for converting to MP4? I wonder if it's just my computer that doesn't encode the AC3 audio... All thoughts/advice is greatly appreciated.

Hiram

On May 29, 2011, at 4:03 AM, Felicity Meakins wrote:

Hi Hiram,

I'm sending this via the RNLD list because I think you meant it to go there in the first place.

AIC files are very nice files if you are wanting to create a (subtitled) DVD product for the speaker community. They are preferable to the Canon format you mentioned. Unfortunately they are very large though and in a proprietary format. Archives are recommending MPEG-4 format for archiving which are quite compressed but can still be good quality. Unfortunately FCP does take absolutely forever to compress files in MPEG-4 format and won't do a batch convert - unlike Handbrake, but Handbrake can't read AIC format. Amazing that the free program is both faster and more efficient but anyway.

If you want to convert your AIC files to something of similar quality, you could create MPEG-2 files which is what digital TV and DVDs use. Unfortunately you can't do this in FCP but if you bought the FCP package, you will have Compressor as well which works form within FCP. You can create MPEG-2 files through Compressor. I haven't found any other way of converting AIC to MPEG-2.

I don't have any recommendations for the process of recording events myself. I think it is probably something we do poorly as documentary linguists because we have been focussed on sound quality for so long. On a number of occasions, I have considered doing a mini-documentary film makers course for this very reason. But they are quite expensive. If you have the opportunity, I would recommend it!

Regards, Felicity

On 28/05/11 9:54 PM, "#HIRAM RANDALL RING#" <HIRAM1 at e.ntu.edu.sg <x-msg://9/HIRAM1@e.ntu.edu.sg> > wrote:

Hi All,

  Sorry to revive this subject line, but...

  I'm having some issues with HDV files direct from my camera. I recently shot video and found that Final Cut provided the easiest way to trim and import the files for further editing on my mac, but as mentioned earlier in this thread, these are AIC files in MOV containers. When I follow her directions to export the files, besides taking a long time (80 minutes and counting for 6 minutes of video) I am still left with .MOV files. Should I be converting these .MOV files with Handbrake? Or exporting directly as MP4 files? Or should I be shooting in 1280x720p to begin with? (currently shooting in 1440x1080p, which I'm thinking may be why it takes so long to export)

  Alternatively, should I be using Handbrake to convert directly from the MTS files (highly compressed Canon HDV files) to H264 MP4 files? The attempts I have made to do this have resulted in un-playable video files on my mac.

  Also, are there standards for shooting documentation footage? I've been doing research online and can't seem to find any recommendations except "shoot in high quality". It seems then that SP (at 1080p, 30 frames/sec on the camera I'm using) will work for stories and other shots where participants/speakers are mostly still, but the benefit of the higher resolutions (XP+ etc..) has more to do with faster framerates and thus might be good for cultural events such as dancing in which there's lots of movement. Does anyone have experience with this?

Thanks,
_______________
Hiram Ring
PhD Student, Language Documentation
Nanyang Technological University
http://www.ntu.edu.sg <http://www.ntu.edu.sg/>

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On May 16, 2011, at 11:55 AM, Felicity Meakins wrote:

Thanks. I am indeed archiving in MPEG-4 (H.264 codec) format as requested by archives. The issue was converting AIC files into MPEG-4 which is very difficult if you have used FCP and an HDV video camera. Nonetheless solution was found and is posted on the RNLD page.

On 16/05/11 4:21 PM, "Jeremy Hammond" <Jeremy.Hammond at mpi.nl <x-msg://9/Jeremy.Hammond@mpi.nl>  <x-msg://6/Jeremy.Hammond@mpi.nl <x-msg://6/Jeremy.Hammond@mpi.nl> > > wrote:

Hi Felicity and all,

Sorry for the lateness of the contribution but there is something else to consider here for making your archive copies. Some archiving institutions (DOBES for example) will generally not accept .MOV video files precisely for the reasons that have caused you problems. The .MOV is a very flexible container type and can take a multitude of different encoding options for both audio and video streams. It can have varying compression levels, from zero (like you FCP working files) to very high (think iTunes movies) as well. All of this means that archival stability is very hard to achieve as there is nothing even close to a standard (for example it is near-impossible to replicate the QuickTime 720p export settings using another program).

So my suggestion is to check with your institution's guidelines before using proprietary software like QuickTime or FCP for the final archive copy. Another option would be to export them as MPEG-2 streams but this will give much larger files which might be a problem for long HDV recordings (potentially up to around 16GB per hour).

I personally archive two copies plus a 16-bit wav audio stream. A full MPEG-2 version which is in theory 100% quality. Secondly, a high quality MPEG-4 H.264 version for day-to-day use and e-distribution. With this copy I would suggest using .mp4/.m4v containers to go with the  MPEG-4 (H.264) AAC encoding. While not perfect, they are probably better than .MOV especially if you include the meta-data for the encoding process in your documentation.

Regards
Jeremy

-----Original Message-----
From: r-n-l-d at unimelb.edu.au <x-msg://9/r-n-l-d@unimelb.edu.au>  <x-msg://6/r-n-l-d@unimelb.edu.au <x-msg://6/r-n-l-d@unimelb.edu.au> >  [mailto:r-n-l-d at unimelb.edu.au] On Behalf Of Felicity Meakins
Sent: Monday, 9 May 2011 2:33 PM
To: r-n-l-d at unimelb.edu.au <x-msg://9/r-n-l-d@unimelb.edu.au>  <x-msg://6/r-n-l-d@unimelb.edu.au <x-msg://6/r-n-l-d@unimelb.edu.au> >
Subject: From HD Video camera to MPEG-4 on a Mac

Hi everyone,

This email summarises the process I have gone through from capturing my HDV
tapes through Final Cut Pro to producing good looking MPEG-4 files suitable
for archiving. Thanks very much to the people who emailed me with
suggestions, particularly Tom Honeyman.

So .....

When you capture your HDV recordings using Final Cut Pro (FCP), Apple
Intermediate Codec (AIC) files are created which are encased in the
Quicktime .mov format. They are very large but very high quality files which
are perfect for editing into subtitled edited DVDs for the language
community.

For the purposes of archiving, these files need to be converted into MPEG-4
format.

In order to create MPEG-4 files, export to .mov file from FCP (or Final Cut
Express) using Quicktime Conversion (File > Export > Using Quicktime
Conversion) and use the following formats:

Format: Quicktime Movie

*Codec for video: H.264*
*Frame-rate: Current*
*Keyframes: Every 30 frames*
*Data rate: 5000 kbits/s*
*Size: 1280x720*
*De-interlace: Yes*
*Sound codec: AAC*
*Sound Sample Rate: 44.1kHz*
*Audio Quality: 128kbps*

Regards,

Felicity

----------------------------------------------
Felicity Meakins
ARC Postdoctoral Research Fellow
School of Languages and Comparative Cultural Studies
Bldg. 32 (Gordon Greenwood Building)
University of Queensland
Brisbane QLD 4072
AUSTRALIA

Mobile: +61411404546
Office: +61 7 3365 2877
Fax: +61 7 3365 6799
Email: f.meakins at uq.edu.au <x-msg://9/f.meakins@uq.edu.au>  <x-msg://6/f.meakins@uq.edu.au <x-msg://6/f.meakins@uq.edu.au> >
http://www.slccs.uq.edu.au//index.html?page=127733&pid=124851

also Honorary Research Associate with University of Manchester
http://www.llc.manchester.ac.uk/subjects/lel/staff/felicity-meakins
felicity.meakins at manchester.ac.uk <x-msg://9/felicity.meakins@manchester.ac.uk>  <x-msg://6/felicity.meakins@manchester.ac.uk <x-msg://6/felicity.meakins@manchester.ac.uk> >
----------------------------------------------

----------------------------------------------
Felicity Meakins
ARC Postdoctoral Research Fellow
School of Languages and Comparative Cultural Studies
Bldg. 32 (Gordon Greenwood Building)
University of Queensland
Brisbane QLD 4072
AUSTRALIA

Mobile: +61411404546
Office: +61 7 3365 2877
Fax: +61 7 3365 6799
Email: f.meakins at uq.edu.au <x-msg://9/f.meakins@uq.edu.au>  <x-msg://6/f.meakins@uq.edu.au <x-msg://6/f.meakins@uq.edu.au> >
http://www.slccs.uq.edu.au//index.html?page=127733&pid=124851

also Honorary Research Associate with University of Manchester
http://www.llc.manchester.ac.uk/subjects/lel/staff/felicity-meakins
felicity.meakins at manchester.ac.uk <x-msg://9/felicity.meakins@manchester.ac.uk>  <x-msg://6/felicity.meakins@manchester.ac.uk <x-msg://6/felicity.meakins@manchester.ac.uk> >
----------------------------------------------

----------------------------------------------
Felicity Meakins
ARC Australian Postdoctoral Fellow (APD)
School of Languages and Comparative Cultural Studies
Bldg. 32 (Gordon Greenwood Building)
University of Queensland
Brisbane QLD 4072
AUSTRALIA

Mobile: +61411404546
Office: +61 7 3365 2877
Fax: +61 7 3365 6799
Email: f.meakins at uq.edu.au <x-msg://9/f.meakins@uq.edu.au>
http://www.slccs.uq.edu.au//index.html?page=127733&pid=124851

also Honorary Research Associate with University of Manchester
http://www.llc.manchester.ac.uk/subjects/lel/staff/felicity-meakins
felicity.meakins at manchester.ac.uk <x-msg://9/felicity.meakins@manchester.ac.uk>
----------------------------------------------

----------------------------------------------
Felicity Meakins
ARC Postdoctoral Research Fellow
School of Languages and Comparative Cultural Studies
Bldg. 32 (Gordon Greenwood Building)
University of Queensland
Brisbane QLD 4072
AUSTRALIA

Mobile: +61411404546
Office: +61 7 3365 2877
Fax: +61 7 3365 6799
Email: f.meakins at uq.edu.au
http://www.slccs.uq.edu.au//index.html?page=127733&pid=124851

also Honorary Research Associate with University of Manchester
http://www.llc.manchester.ac.uk/subjects/lel/staff/felicity-meakins
felicity.meakins at manchester.ac.uk
----------------------------------------------